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Speaker 1: Crashing episode number four eighty six is with Anna Sinfield
Speaker 1: from the podcast The Girl Friends. Good morning, how are
Speaker 1: you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. It's nice to chat
Speaker 2: to you again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could, because you bring the story you totally.
Speaker 1: Anytime I see your name anywhere, I know that what
Speaker 1: you're bringing to listeners is quality. And you're also bringing
Speaker 1: the intensity of what it's like to be real with
Speaker 1: your listeners. And I love that that you bring that
Speaker 1: in My God, and what you're doing with trust Me, babe.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is so every day.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Thank you're saying all the right things.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, I'm about ready to do a
Speaker 1: report on iHeartRadio that's about relationships, and it's seeing that
Speaker 1: fifty three percent of all couples are in a burnout
Speaker 1: mode when it comes to getting together. And then here
Speaker 1: comes your podcast with trust Me, babe, and I can
Speaker 1: understand now because look at that damn Derek. What is
Speaker 1: wrong with this dude?
Speaker 2: There is so much wrong with Derek.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, Yeah, he just treats everyone so badly.
Speaker 2: I've been trying to figure out what is wrong with
Speaker 2: him the whole time.
Speaker 3: And when I focused a little bit too much on that,
Speaker 3: I felt like I was no longer focusing on the
Speaker 3: real central characters of the story, which are the women,
Speaker 3: the victims. So I just kind of have left in
Speaker 3: a sense of there's something very wrong with Derek, and
Speaker 3: that's about that.
Speaker 1: Well, it brings fear to me to read about or
Speaker 1: even to hear about Derek, because I don't want to
Speaker 1: become Derek. I don't even want to know what his
Speaker 1: secrets are. I don't want to know anything, because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be caught in trying to build a
Speaker 1: friendship or a relationship and go, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is what Derek did. They're going to start investigating me.
Speaker 3: I think that you'd have to work quite hard to
Speaker 3: become like Derek, because he he was a busy man
Speaker 3: kind of figuring out how to be such a such
Speaker 3: a prolific con artist. I mean, it must have been
Speaker 3: a lot to juggle without, you know, selling him as
Speaker 3: some sort of genius.
Speaker 2: It would have been hard work. It would have been
Speaker 2: a full time jump. Well.
Speaker 1: I cringed when with his reaction when Wendy's sister says
Speaker 1: that she's going to reach, you know, research his past
Speaker 1: and stuff, and he was like, nah, I mean, it
Speaker 1: didn't even bother me. It's like he's been through it
Speaker 1: so many other times before people have said stuff to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: But how do you deal with a situation like that,
Speaker 1: when you're on the opposite into that microphone and they're
Speaker 1: sharing that story. How do you even stay strong and
Speaker 1: engage in a story like this because it would be
Speaker 1: so easy to say, WHOA, that's your whole I'm out
Speaker 1: of here. I ow. But but you jump into their
Speaker 1: into their their I don't want to call it misery,
Speaker 1: but yes it is.
Speaker 3: One was interested in sitting down and talking to people
Speaker 3: about the hard stuff.
Speaker 2: I think that's a well I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people like doing that.
Speaker 3: I think it's definitely a specific skill set I have
Speaker 3: that I'm able to kind of sit.
Speaker 2: In the horrible.
Speaker 3: But also while we were there, I mean, these women
Speaker 3: are amazing.
Speaker 2: It's not kind of just been misery. I have actually
Speaker 2: had such.
Speaker 3: A hoot making this series, which isn't always the case
Speaker 3: on the shows that I make. Sometimes they do feel
Speaker 3: kind of just majority dark, and this one didn't you
Speaker 3: know that the women are so feisty and funny and
Speaker 3: vivacious and full of life and their own ambitions, and
Speaker 3: they've managed to achieve so much despite what Derek did
Speaker 3: to them, that they were just a pleasure to meet.
Speaker 2: And they just happened to have.
Speaker 3: This incredible story, which, like I like to hear exciting
Speaker 3: stories or dramatic stories about my friend's lives and anyone
Speaker 3: else's lives. So I was just kind of sat there,
Speaker 3: mouth open, kind of staring into the abyss, thinking, how
Speaker 3: the hell did this happen?
Speaker 2: In real life.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the relationship with him,
Speaker 1: because there's a certain sound and it might be because
Speaker 1: I've been in radio for all these decades, there's a
Speaker 1: certain sound that somebody that you're having a conversation with
Speaker 1: release that you're going, oh, they're being genuine because they
Speaker 1: trust you. I felt that every one of the people
Speaker 1: that you feature on this podcast, the girlfriends Trust Me Babe,
Speaker 1: they had a relationship with you in that they trusted you.
Speaker 3: I well, I hope that's the case, because it's a lot,
Speaker 3: a lot for them to give up, you know, as
Speaker 3: a personal story.
Speaker 2: Not everyone was interviewed by me.
Speaker 3: They were also interviewed by our producer Leona, and she
Speaker 3: is just the warmest, loveliest, most open person ever. And
Speaker 3: so I think between the two of us, yeah, I
Speaker 3: hope that they felt safe. I certainly think that the
Speaker 3: level of intimacy and kind of a sense of like
Speaker 3: those confessional interviews, I think they do kind of imply
Speaker 3: that they felt safe. And afterwards they've been very kind
Speaker 3: about the whole process.
Speaker 1: Were you part of the editing process? Because you got
Speaker 1: so close and so personal with everybody that's featured on
Speaker 1: Trust Me Babe? That it's almost one of those things
Speaker 1: where I'm going, I mean, how did you even edit it?
Speaker 1: How did you know how to put this story together?
Speaker 1: Because you're gonna have to play favoritism or did you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, editing a story is always really, really hard,
Speaker 3: because there can be the stuff that you know is
Speaker 3: important perhaps for an interviewee, or it's become important to you,
Speaker 3: and then there's also just the fact that you are
Speaker 3: trying to tell a compelling and propulsive story. And so
Speaker 3: I was involved in fact I think I think my
Speaker 3: producer Leanna won't mind me saying this, but she was
Speaker 3: a bit closer to the story. She'd had more research
Speaker 3: calls with a lot of the women, and she found
Speaker 3: it harder to let go of things because of that
Speaker 3: when you're when you're so close, it's even harder. Whereas
Speaker 3: I really know what the girlfriend sounds like now because
Speaker 3: I've been making it for such a long time, been
Speaker 3: hosting it for such a long time, that it's easier
Speaker 3: for me to come in and just go no, like this,
Speaker 3: like that, like this, And then after your review and
Speaker 3: you make sure you've not done anyone a disservice, and
Speaker 3: obviously they're fact checked and legaled and you make sure
Speaker 3: you're telling the truth. But yeah, it's all part of
Speaker 3: being in a team. I think being in a team
Speaker 3: is so important.
Speaker 1: Oh please do not move. There is more with Anna
Speaker 1: coming up next. The name of the podcast the Girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Trust me, babe, We are back with Anna. Well, this
Speaker 1: one comes with a big, big, big rule that's right
Speaker 1: there at the beginning. If you think you are a
Speaker 1: scuba diver and you're not playing by the rules of
Speaker 1: all scuba divers, you are a con artist. I'm telling you.
Speaker 1: I felt it in the very beginning when you were
Speaker 1: talking about him getting the bins and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. I'm going, holy crap. That's one of the
Speaker 1: very first rules that we learn when we go scuba
Speaker 1: diving is how not to get the bins.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so this guy is pretending to be like
Speaker 3: a super experienced scuba diver and then he gets the bends. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't believe it. I don't believe it one bit.
Speaker 1: But you know what, as a listener though, it drew
Speaker 1: me closer. So kudos to you guys, because it's almost
Speaker 1: like you said, watch this, they'll stay longer. They ain't
Speaker 1: hitting any other podcasts when they're into this one because
Speaker 1: we're going to make it really dramatic.
Speaker 2: Good aiming for drama, and I really.
Speaker 1: Do what I would love to see sometime with you,
Speaker 1: ana Is. I would love for you to come to
Speaker 1: Carolina to interview what goes on here, because it seems
Speaker 1: like the women of Carolina marry these guys or date
Speaker 1: these guys and kill them. I mean it's like two
Speaker 1: or three people at a time, and they use eye drops,
Speaker 1: they use all these different things. I'm going, my god,
Speaker 1: it's not just the guys, the girls are doing it too.
Speaker 2: What the hell. I've never heard this say.
Speaker 1: My god, it's amazing how many women are in prison
Speaker 1: here in the Carolina. It's because well, I put eye
Speaker 1: drops in his drinks. I'm sorry, Okay, you're forgiven.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I mean, I'm I'm all for telling
Speaker 2: telling that story for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's what I love about what you do
Speaker 1: is because you generate enough energy inside our imaginations where
Speaker 1: we look at our own reality and see it happening.
Speaker 1: Whereas before it was like the blind Gorilla. We were
Speaker 1: just walking through life. We didn't see anything, but we
Speaker 1: hear this podcast. The girlfriends trust me, babe, and it's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is going on around me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would always stress that these are really
Speaker 3: exceptional stories.
Speaker 2: That's why they're so hard to find.
Speaker 3: But they do all kind of plug into a bigger
Speaker 3: universal truth. I mean, obviously, I'm always talking about the
Speaker 3: experiences of women. I'm centering women and marginalized people in
Speaker 3: the show. That's the whole beat. And so there are
Speaker 3: these bigger truths about domestic violence, gendered violence, stuff like
Speaker 3: that that are happening all around us. I just happen
Speaker 3: to tell the most dramatic version of that story.
Speaker 1: Well, you do something in here with rule number two
Speaker 1: that everybody should know. In fact, my martial arts instructor
Speaker 1: even taught me this in the very early days, early
Speaker 1: stages of martial arts. Girls will pack up. In other words,
Speaker 1: they are going to get together and whatever they're going
Speaker 1: to do to make sure they get the right information
Speaker 1: right now. Oh my god, I love the way that
Speaker 1: you brought that forward. They will gather together in all
Speaker 1: that talking.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I mean, like people talk about the male loneliness epidemic
Speaker 3: at the moment, and one of the reasons that you
Speaker 3: don't hear about that when it comes to women is
Speaker 3: because they're so good at looking out for their friends.
Speaker 2: If one of your friends is screwed over by a
Speaker 2: guy like Derek.
Speaker 3: You bet her girlfriends are coming around and they're going
Speaker 3: to make a plan and they're going to support each other.
Speaker 3: And guys should take a you know, take some hints
Speaker 3: from that and some tips and learn how to be
Speaker 3: there for their friends.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting about this is the fact that you
Speaker 1: really do paint Derek as this person who you know,
Speaker 1: tries to be all these different rules. I've always believed
Speaker 1: that the con artists were the truck drivers, are the
Speaker 1: people that traveled on highways and things. No, No, you're
Speaker 1: proving to us that it could be everyday average Jimmy Johnson.
Speaker 1: And you're going, what the what I never even even
Speaker 1: thought about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's these women were.
Speaker 2: Not dumb, they were not naive.
Speaker 3: I think it's really easy to look at this story
Speaker 3: and think, oh, that would never happen to me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it would because it just came across like a
Speaker 3: normal guy.
Speaker 1: See, and that just scared I'm a guy, and that
Speaker 1: scares the crap out of me. I mean, they see
Speaker 1: how you're affecting people. It's not just the guy, even
Speaker 1: though it's about a guy, but we still we still
Speaker 1: sit here and think, oh my god, this is really
Speaker 1: going on around us. This isn't a binge watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean men can be victims of these
Speaker 3: sort of con artists too. Yep. It's an easy way
Speaker 3: in to, you know, manipulate someone who wants to be loved.
Speaker 3: It's a dirty, easy way in, but it is. But
Speaker 3: you know, a heterosexual man can be conned by another
Speaker 3: heterosexual man through friendship, through business, through anything, you know, and.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to deal with sex at all. I
Speaker 1: mean that's one of the things that you talk about
Speaker 1: this when it comes to you know, what's happening in
Speaker 1: this story is that it happens in all walks of life.
Speaker 1: All people just be more aware.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, be aware.
Speaker 3: But also, and you know, and what I mean by
Speaker 3: that is, don't be naive to let strangers into your
Speaker 3: life in a kind of intimate way without kind of
Speaker 3: due diligence, and don't pass over your finances and stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: But I think also it's really.
Speaker 3: Important The series ends with a sort of message about
Speaker 3: not losing faith in love and not becoming too guarded.
Speaker 3: You can't go through your entire life just expecting the
Speaker 3: worst to happen, because these stories are rare. But it's
Speaker 3: about kind of making sure you build up your communities
Speaker 3: so that if anything bad were to happen in any
Speaker 3: part of your life, you have people around you to
Speaker 3: fall back on.
Speaker 2: And that's what these women had. They had each other.
Speaker 1: I want to know how many of the older generation
Speaker 1: before the app came into play in our smartphones, are
Speaker 1: going to reach out to you and say, Anna, we
Speaker 1: got to talk, because this is really going to rock
Speaker 1: a lot of worlds because this is not just something
Speaker 1: that happened in the digital age. This has been going
Speaker 1: on in fact. And the reason why I say that,
Speaker 1: I think my own damn dad was a con artist
Speaker 1: because this man had three women with children and I'm going,
Speaker 1: how the hell did this even happen because he's a corner.
Speaker 1: But you know, everybody's gone now, so I can't get
Speaker 1: any answers. I'm going to go to my own grave
Speaker 1: scene my dad was a con artist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I mean it's a shame that everybody's gone,
Speaker 3: because what a kind of personal story to dig into.
Speaker 3: But Yeah, you're right. This has been going on a
Speaker 3: really long time. I mean people have been conning people
Speaker 3: since since the dawn of time. But even in this
Speaker 3: specific instance in Trust Me Babe, the first known case
Speaker 3: we have of Derek conning someone is nineteen ninety four
Speaker 3: when he was a student at college, and so that's
Speaker 3: a really early start.
Speaker 2: That was before dating apps.
Speaker 3: And so I think how many people have not come
Speaker 3: forward that are between those stretches. That's something I'd be
Speaker 3: really interested to hear from, like anyone who has stories
Speaker 3: that haven't been reported yet, because I'm sure there's many.
Speaker 1: And how many people go to a hockey game, like
Speaker 1: Lisa expecting to watch the game and oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's a new dude. Oh my god, he's a pretty
Speaker 1: cool guy. Yeah, I'm gonna go to a game now
Speaker 1: thinking you're being nice to me for what reason today?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, you know you've always got to watch out for
Speaker 3: people on the other side at these games, right, So
Speaker 3: keep your wits about you.
Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant, Anna. And you know my door is
Speaker 1: always open. Please come back and have a great time.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much. It was lovely to chat