WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.040
<v Speaker 1>You see, something's going to happen?

2
00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:09.759
<v Speaker 2>What?

3
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:10.599
<v Speaker 1>What's going to happen?

4
00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519
<v Speaker 3>What?

5
00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode. You got a

6
00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.519
<v Speaker 2>couple of us together and we've got a very very

7
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:32.280
<v Speaker 2>special guest. Somebody have been trying to get on for

8
00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:34.640
<v Speaker 2>a while and we finally made it happen. We will

9
00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:37.240
<v Speaker 2>have p. D. Newman joining us today, but before we

10
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:39.759
<v Speaker 2>get to him, let me introduce the other rejects on

11
00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:43.200
<v Speaker 2>the channel. And we got my man the Headless Giant.

12
00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:44.200
<v Speaker 2>What is going on sir?

13
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:46.079
<v Speaker 1>How you doing?

14
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.679
<v Speaker 4>I've got my Alchemy Monday show coming up tonight and

15
00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:54.119
<v Speaker 4>I've got the mail Bag show with Nick coming up

16
00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:58.000
<v Speaker 4>on Thursday. So definitely subscribe to the YouTube channel and

17
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.159
<v Speaker 4>get out there and follow me on x and on

18
00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:05.400
<v Speaker 4>Instagram as well. Thank you very much, check out a

19
00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:06.079
<v Speaker 4>lot of vidviews.

20
00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.439
<v Speaker 2>Definitely send in that mail and if you want, leave

21
00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:11.439
<v Speaker 2>an adjus and you will receive some stickers. Thank you

22
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.000
<v Speaker 2>very much, my man, I appreciate you joining us and

23
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:16.280
<v Speaker 2>my man Jin the Ninja. What is going on?

24
00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Sir?

25
00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.280
<v Speaker 2>How will you? What is up?

26
00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Boss? Mister ninety three?

27
00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:23.200
<v Speaker 3>So if you want to check me out, you can

28
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.640
<v Speaker 3>follow me on x Twitter at wucom Reborn w uk

29
00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:29.519
<v Speaker 3>O and g Reborn or on Ig at Threshold Saints

30
00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.959
<v Speaker 3>and also at Threshold Saints for the show account on

31
00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:36.879
<v Speaker 3>x Twitter, and I had the great pleasure of recently

32
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:41.480
<v Speaker 3>interviewing Paul Frederick from the Demonosoftye podcast with my Gray

33
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Lodge co host, not Matt Murra, but a different Gray

34
00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.319
<v Speaker 3>Lodge co host, as well as Gregory Peters who wrote

35
00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.680
<v Speaker 3>the recent book The New aon Contrast. So two amazing

36
00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.920
<v Speaker 3>interviews coming up and lots of episodes coming out so.

37
00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:56.079
<v Speaker 1>People can check that out.

38
00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:58.239
<v Speaker 3>And there's a recent drop I just made on Final

39
00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Fantasy eight, So if you're interested in the kabbala of

40
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:04.719
<v Speaker 3>Final Fantasy eight and sort of like the meta ontologies

41
00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:08.439
<v Speaker 3>and metamagic that it may or may not contain, you

42
00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:09.680
<v Speaker 3>can check that out episode out.

43
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.199
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys, appreciate it.

44
00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate you vacing it

45
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:17.080
<v Speaker 2>here and perfect timing. Unfortunately, forgot, even though I told

46
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.319
<v Speaker 2>the Headless Matt was joining us today, totally forgot you

47
00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:21.479
<v Speaker 2>were coming and I started without you. But you you

48
00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:23.560
<v Speaker 2>made it, Matt. So maybe you can umute yourself and

49
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:25.800
<v Speaker 2>let everybody know what is going on and how you.

50
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:30.000
<v Speaker 5>Doing except for everyone, glad to be here, glad to

51
00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.840
<v Speaker 5>meet you Newman, Headless and Marx for the first time.

52
00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:37.000
<v Speaker 5>So I'm Matt. I mean recently there was an episode

53
00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.000
<v Speaker 5>here on Accoule Projects, so you can check that out.

54
00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.360
<v Speaker 5>I guess it's gonna tell everything you need to know

55
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:45.599
<v Speaker 5>about me. And uh yeah, very glad. Let's see how

56
00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:46.159
<v Speaker 5>it goes today.

57
00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, thank you very much, appreciate you making it, sir.

58
00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:51.240
<v Speaker 2>And last but not least, we got the storyteller himself,

59
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:52.719
<v Speaker 2>Robbie Marx. How are you, sir?

60
00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:57.120
<v Speaker 6>Hello, hope everybody's doing great out there. I'm our Marx

61
00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:01.599
<v Speaker 6>or Robbie Marx. I'm an artist, illustrate. I do a

62
00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:04.199
<v Speaker 6>lot of research. You can check out all my links

63
00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.680
<v Speaker 6>for my podcasts and all my very social media at

64
00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:10.919
<v Speaker 6>link tree r M r X and that'll pull up

65
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.719
<v Speaker 6>everything for you. And it's good to see everybody here,

66
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.719
<v Speaker 6>some familiars that I love and some new faces. It's

67
00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.400
<v Speaker 6>always great. I'm excited for the show and thanks for

68
00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:19.840
<v Speaker 6>having me on.

69
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Nick.

70
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Of course no just during the day. I had to

71
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.400
<v Speaker 2>get you on, so I always appreciate you joining us.

72
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.759
<v Speaker 2>And finally again somebody I was very much looking forward

73
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.159
<v Speaker 2>to getting on the show. We have PD Newman, and

74
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:32.520
<v Speaker 2>if you're not sure who he is, he is an

75
00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.199
<v Speaker 2>esoteric researcher and practicing occultist whose work sits at the

76
00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:41.039
<v Speaker 2>crossroads of alchemy, meticism, theogy, and shamanism. He's a Freemason,

77
00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:43.599
<v Speaker 2>a member of the Society of Rosicrucians, and also is

78
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.319
<v Speaker 2>associated with the Martinist Order, so he's coming from the

79
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.840
<v Speaker 2>inside of Western initiatory tradition. He's published in several esoteric

80
00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:55.199
<v Speaker 2>and Masonic journals, including the Scottish Right Journal, Knights, Templar Magazine,

81
00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:59.400
<v Speaker 2>the Masonic Society Journal, ED Lusim and ed Lusim and others.

82
00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Some of his books are This is Great, al Chemically Stoned,

83
00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:08.479
<v Speaker 2>The Psychedelic Secret of Female Angels of Vermilion if I'm

84
00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:12.120
<v Speaker 2>saying that correctly, The Philosopher's Stone from d to DMT,

85
00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and the book we will be discussing today is Theorgy,

86
00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.519
<v Speaker 2>theory and practice the Mysteries of the Ascent to the Divine.

87
00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:24.360
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, after that introduction, if there's anything that you

88
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.120
<v Speaker 2>would like to add, or anything you'd like to say,

89
00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:27.839
<v Speaker 2>or any places that you would like to plug for

90
00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.079
<v Speaker 2>the people to find your stuff. Pd Please let everybody

91
00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:30.920
<v Speaker 2>know where they can find you.

92
00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks, thanks for having me.

93
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.399
<v Speaker 7>You can find my books at all major booksellers. I

94
00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:44.360
<v Speaker 7>recently published a follow up to Theurgy that is looking

95
00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.600
<v Speaker 7>at Native American shamanism in the Mississippi Valley and their

96
00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:55.360
<v Speaker 7>funerary rights and how they were incorporating certain ntheagenetic plants

97
00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.120
<v Speaker 7>to induce what we might call out of body experience

98
00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.160
<v Speaker 7>or near death experience. But yeah, I'm on all the

99
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.199
<v Speaker 7>social media platforms. You can find me under under P. D.

100
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Newman.

101
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:07.800
<v Speaker 7>If you want to keep up with what I'm researching,

102
00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:09.199
<v Speaker 7>that's the way to do it.

103
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.319
<v Speaker 2>Awesome. Thank you. Not to get off the topic. It

104
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:13.759
<v Speaker 2>is just something that you just said right now. I

105
00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.439
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I quote my attention, and I'm guessing

106
00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:18.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe you know from the other stuff that you've written about,

107
00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe you might see what I'm getting at. Do you

108
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:22.720
<v Speaker 2>think some of these things that they might have been

109
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.240
<v Speaker 2>taking back then was to push themselves too close to

110
00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.319
<v Speaker 2>an NDE. It was the extent of like, I'm going

111
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to poison myself before I actually die so I can

112
00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.560
<v Speaker 2>have absolutely awesome, awesome, and.

113
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.319
<v Speaker 7>That's that's not just an indigenous thing.

114
00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:38.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, even in the.

115
00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:44.560
<v Speaker 7>Urgy, which is really a ritual application of Platonic metaphysics.

116
00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.439
<v Speaker 7>One point at Plato says that the philosophy is basically

117
00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.639
<v Speaker 7>training to die, learning how to die, and he discussed

118
00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.560
<v Speaker 7>this in terms of what was in counter heard by

119
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.240
<v Speaker 7>the initiates at the Elusinian Mysteries, at the Greater Mystery,

120
00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.120
<v Speaker 7>And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that what was

121
00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.720
<v Speaker 7>actually going on with this this kiki on potion they

122
00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.160
<v Speaker 7>were drinking was that they were consuming some form of

123
00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:23.120
<v Speaker 7>a of a hallucinogen. A lot of evidence points towards ERGOT,

124
00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:28.240
<v Speaker 7>which is a precursor to LSD. Normally it's toxic, but

125
00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:32.439
<v Speaker 7>there are ways to prepare it where it won't induce

126
00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:39.839
<v Speaker 7>gangreen and and what they call Saint Anthony's fire. So yeah,

127
00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:46.040
<v Speaker 7>I think learning how to die, approaching death, or as

128
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.399
<v Speaker 7>Brian Morask who says in The Immortality Key, learning to

129
00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.519
<v Speaker 7>die before you die. And if you can learn this,

130
00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:57.120
<v Speaker 7>then when you do die, you won't die because you've

131
00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.800
<v Speaker 7>kind of gotten your sea legs and can can navigate

132
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:03.240
<v Speaker 7>that that territory.

133
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:07.839
<v Speaker 2>Do you think, not to sound like crazy, do you

134
00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:09.800
<v Speaker 2>think like maybe when you say you see legs with

135
00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.000
<v Speaker 2>that almost kind of give you maybe the options of

136
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:17.560
<v Speaker 2>where you're going. Yeah maybe okay, all right, I like that.

137
00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.759
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and and here, you know, and the material realm,

138
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:28.000
<v Speaker 7>we're very much predicated on space, time on you know,

139
00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.639
<v Speaker 7>time really comes into play when we say how long

140
00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.720
<v Speaker 7>will it take me to get from point A to

141
00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:42.759
<v Speaker 7>point B traveling at a given speed? Right, Well, in

142
00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:47.079
<v Speaker 7>that realm, that's not necessarily the case. It's not so

143
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:52.639
<v Speaker 7>much the quantity of space and time that determines travel,

144
00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:58.839
<v Speaker 7>it's the quality. So it very much operates and the

145
00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.439
<v Speaker 7>way that magic operates like attracts like. So it's not

146
00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.759
<v Speaker 7>that let's say you think of a place where you

147
00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:10.720
<v Speaker 7>want to be, that's very quantitative, but if you can

148
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:17.319
<v Speaker 7>feel how it feels to be there, the feeling becomes

149
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:22.199
<v Speaker 7>the place becomes the embodiment. So travel travel is very

150
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:27.720
<v Speaker 7>different experientially, and the way it's discussed in after death

151
00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:32.480
<v Speaker 7>manuals like the the Bardothodole, which is what we know

152
00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.039
<v Speaker 7>is the Tibetan Book of the Dead, or in the

153
00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.639
<v Speaker 7>Papyrus of Any, which is what we know is the

154
00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:42.559
<v Speaker 7>Egyptian Book of the Dead. Navigation is very much predicated

155
00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:49.200
<v Speaker 7>upon the quality, the quality present within the Traveler.

156
00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Really, I love it. I love it. Not to get

157
00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:57.240
<v Speaker 2>too far ahead of ourselves, unfortunately, and I came right

158
00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.000
<v Speaker 2>off the bat with a question that was kind of like,

159
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:00.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm sure I have to with your book,

160
00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:01.799
<v Speaker 2>but it was just something.

161
00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:02.399
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question.

162
00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, thank you, thank you. I would love to

163
00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:06.919
<v Speaker 2>nerd out on this, but I do want to stay

164
00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.440
<v Speaker 2>on the topic unfortunately. For one thing, I do want

165
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.200
<v Speaker 2>to ask for the listeners who may not know who

166
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:14.080
<v Speaker 2>you are yet, how did you first get into, like

167
00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:16.559
<v Speaker 2>I guess, the world of alchemy or medicism and theogy

168
00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:17.559
<v Speaker 2>if you don't mind.

169
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:25.320
<v Speaker 7>Taking drugs, Oh okay, it'd be totally honesty. From about

170
00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.919
<v Speaker 7>age about age eleven is when I first started taking

171
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.919
<v Speaker 7>LSD and mushrooms. And you know that I live in

172
00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.360
<v Speaker 7>the Deep South, where mushrooms grow and grain fed cowfields,

173
00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.480
<v Speaker 7>so we were learning how to identify them and how

174
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.320
<v Speaker 7>to consume them before I was even a teenager. And

175
00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.399
<v Speaker 7>back then, you know, it was a novelty. It was

176
00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.080
<v Speaker 7>very much a recreational kind of a practice.

177
00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.480
<v Speaker 1>But pretty soon.

178
00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:58.720
<v Speaker 7>As the dose has increased and the substance has got

179
00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:04.159
<v Speaker 7>more complex, such as with n N d MT and mescaline.

180
00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.919
<v Speaker 7>I've very quickly found myself in territory that I couldn't

181
00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.360
<v Speaker 7>navigate philosophically, psychologically, and that's what led me to first

182
00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:20.399
<v Speaker 7>look into metaphysical models different religions in Mississippi. You know,

183
00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.320
<v Speaker 7>it's not like, you know, I had found parallels to

184
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.559
<v Speaker 7>things I was experiencing in Eastern texts like the Dalte Shing,

185
00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:32.840
<v Speaker 7>the Bagabad Gita through Panish heads. But it's not like

186
00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.519
<v Speaker 7>here I can go and talk to a guru, you know.

187
00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:42.600
<v Speaker 7>And I had encountered a number of similar terms. When

188
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.480
<v Speaker 7>I was much younger, I was spending the night with

189
00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:48.120
<v Speaker 7>a friend and there was a book on his shelf.

190
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.519
<v Speaker 7>He lived with his grandfather, and the book really attracted

191
00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.519
<v Speaker 7>my attention, and when I pulled it down was looking

192
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.360
<v Speaker 7>at it. He told me, that's that's the Scottish rite,

193
00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.279
<v Speaker 7>thirty second degree. That's what you get when you come

194
00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:03.279
<v Speaker 7>in thirty second degree. My grandfather's a freemason. And so

195
00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.759
<v Speaker 7>I'm flipping through it, reading passages. I have absolutely no

196
00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.840
<v Speaker 7>idea what I'm reading, but I knew right then that

197
00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.360
<v Speaker 7>I was going to at some point in my life

198
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.759
<v Speaker 7>to figure out what the hell is going on?

199
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.080
<v Speaker 1>What is this book about, but a lot.

200
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:21.879
<v Speaker 7>Of the same terms that I was encountering in these

201
00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:26.440
<v Speaker 7>Eastern tacts I found there. And masonry is very visible here.

202
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.559
<v Speaker 7>You know, the Scottish Rite was created in Charleston. Masonry

203
00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:36.120
<v Speaker 7>is very much accepted practice in the south. The further

204
00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:41.639
<v Speaker 7>north you get the more conspiracy kind of minded views

205
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.120
<v Speaker 7>of free masonry starts creeping in. But here you don't

206
00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.879
<v Speaker 7>see that. It's very respected. And so I petitioned a lodge,

207
00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.240
<v Speaker 7>never expected to get in, but I got elected to

208
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:55.200
<v Speaker 7>take the three degrees and it turned out to.

209
00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Be absolutely what I needed at the time.

210
00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.480
<v Speaker 7>And from there I just went on and to you know,

211
00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:06.440
<v Speaker 7>her Meticism and Kabbala and Taro and alchemy, and you

212
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:14.600
<v Speaker 7>know it's still go and theurgy these days, theurgy, Neoplatonism,

213
00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:15.360
<v Speaker 7>the Hermetica.

214
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.559
<v Speaker 1>That's really where.

215
00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:21.000
<v Speaker 7>I spend my time these days. But yeah, that's how

216
00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:21.679
<v Speaker 7>it came about.

217
00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.840
<v Speaker 2>That is awesome. I love it. One thing I did

218
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.360
<v Speaker 2>want to ask you if you don't mind h if

219
00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:30.720
<v Speaker 2>you had to, you know, this is for like the

220
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:32.919
<v Speaker 2>newbies and kind of like I guess, I do have

221
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of conspiracy theorists who that listen to the show.

222
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.159
<v Speaker 2>So We're gonna ask you this question basically for them,

223
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.600
<v Speaker 2>if you had to explain theorgy to someone who only

224
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.960
<v Speaker 2>knows magic from pop culture, what's the simplest, the most

225
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:49.919
<v Speaker 2>accurate definition you'd give them, because you know, I'm just

226
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:51.919
<v Speaker 2>saying the idea we have of it from Hollywood is

227
00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:53.080
<v Speaker 2>probably completely wrong.

228
00:12:53.279 --> 00:13:00.000
<v Speaker 7>So, you know, to borrow a phrase from the Christian scripture,

229
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:05.919
<v Speaker 7>I will be done right With magic, it's very much

230
00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:12.960
<v Speaker 7>predicated upon the accomplishment of one's desires. It's largely ego fulfillment.

231
00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.440
<v Speaker 7>It can be other things, but usually it's because I

232
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.879
<v Speaker 7>want X, and you know this spell is designed to

233
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:26.039
<v Speaker 7>give me that result. With theurgy, those things can still happen,

234
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.159
<v Speaker 7>but they're a byproduct of the real goal of theurgy,

235
00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:31.879
<v Speaker 7>which is union.

236
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.559
<v Speaker 1>With God or with the gods, or with a God.

237
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:39.200
<v Speaker 7>But it's basically and when we say union, you know,

238
00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.919
<v Speaker 7>it's easy to think of it's not like a hug.

239
00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.639
<v Speaker 7>You know, it's not like two people hugging. It's losing

240
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:52.919
<v Speaker 7>your egoic perspective and for a brief moment, facing your

241
00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:58.159
<v Speaker 7>consciousness to its root and perceiving the world as God

242
00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.360
<v Speaker 7>perceives the world, or as a God perceives the world.

243
00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.799
<v Speaker 7>So that's how theurgy differs. It means God work or

244
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.039
<v Speaker 7>the work of the gods, you know.

245
00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.000
<v Speaker 1>So there's also this idea that.

246
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:18.279
<v Speaker 7>Man cannot affect theurgic union. That's purely up to the gods.

247
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.559
<v Speaker 7>It's the grace of the gods whether they reach down

248
00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.919
<v Speaker 7>and lift that veil for you. All we can do

249
00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.519
<v Speaker 7>is work on what and the literature is called epitidities,

250
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:34.360
<v Speaker 7>which means our preparedness, how much we've prepared ourselves to

251
00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.159
<v Speaker 7>have that veil lifted. That's really the limit of what

252
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.720
<v Speaker 7>man is capable of in terms of theurgy.

253
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I couldn't have said it better. I'll have

254
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:49.159
<v Speaker 2>to say even that, like my time is being a

255
00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:56.080
<v Speaker 2>magician or a ceremonial magician. Whatever theurgy worked, it was

256
00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.159
<v Speaker 2>a different experience with that stuff. I was very, very

257
00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>big into that once I started having which I call

258
00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:07.600
<v Speaker 2>magical experiences. Uh. I will say, whenever it came to

259
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe me feeling something, whether it could be maybe just

260
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:14.679
<v Speaker 2>myself being feeling good about what I just did or

261
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>whatever it was during theatery like practice is actual, like

262
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.159
<v Speaker 2>prayer and devotion to God. That is times where I

263
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.600
<v Speaker 2>may actually felt like I had contact. You know. It

264
00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.519
<v Speaker 2>was very It was very deep stuff for me, you know,

265
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.720
<v Speaker 2>and I try to do I have mentioned that on

266
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.879
<v Speaker 2>the show a couple of times, but I do think

267
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.279
<v Speaker 2>just from my experience, from how I practice, I think

268
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>that stuff is highly important just for me.

269
00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:39.480
<v Speaker 1>So I agree.

270
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:46.399
<v Speaker 7>And in ceremonial magic we see analogs. Particularly, there are

271
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.519
<v Speaker 7>a few in the Greek magical PAPYRII the Book of

272
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:54.600
<v Speaker 7>a Bramain is a great example, you know, and that

273
00:15:55.159 --> 00:16:00.360
<v Speaker 7>text the damon once damon a daemon is, as it

274
00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:06.120
<v Speaker 7>says in Plato's Symposium, is any being that acts as

275
00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:09.559
<v Speaker 7>a mediator between man and the gods. And they carry

276
00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:14.360
<v Speaker 7>man's aspirations to the gods in the form of prayer, sacrifice,

277
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.919
<v Speaker 7>ritual activities, and in return, they bring down from the

278
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:25.039
<v Speaker 7>gods to man inspirations, and inspiration literally means to take

279
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.200
<v Speaker 7>the God inside oneself. So it's we're essentially talking about

280
00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:32.120
<v Speaker 7>possession and post exorcists.

281
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:33.039
<v Speaker 5>You know.

282
00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:37.919
<v Speaker 7>The possessions is terrifying to most people, the idea that

283
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.480
<v Speaker 7>you can be possessed by a spirit, But in theurgy,

284
00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.720
<v Speaker 7>that's the highest grace to be inhabited by a god.

285
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:50.440
<v Speaker 7>And there's a caveat that we should mention. And that's

286
00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:57.039
<v Speaker 7>that in theurgy, we're never not inhabited by the gods.

287
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.360
<v Speaker 7>Everything happens because of the gods. What changes is our

288
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:08.720
<v Speaker 7>ability to perceive that everything down to from stones to animals.

289
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:13.759
<v Speaker 7>And if if you're in if you're in our medic Kabala,

290
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.680
<v Speaker 7>you're aware of correspondences, right that if we're going to

291
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:22.599
<v Speaker 7>work with Tifferis, we're going to work with things, and

292
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.640
<v Speaker 7>the metal kingdom we're going to go for gold, and

293
00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.599
<v Speaker 7>the mineral kingdoms, sulfur animal kingdom will go for lions, roosters.

294
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:33.640
<v Speaker 7>You know, well, all of these examplesn't originating Kabala. It

295
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:39.400
<v Speaker 7>comes from the Jews in exile encountering Neoplatonists and late Antiquity,

296
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.839
<v Speaker 7>and the Neoplatonists they don't call them correspondences.

297
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>And it's important. This is important distinction.

298
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.759
<v Speaker 7>Because it's easy to psychologize magic and say, well, if

299
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:56.279
<v Speaker 7>I surround myself with red things and increments of five,

300
00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:01.920
<v Speaker 7>psychologically I'm transcing myself into gid Bura, right. But for

301
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.240
<v Speaker 7>the Neoplatonists, it's not a mnemonic. It is the god.

302
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.960
<v Speaker 7>They call it Sunthamata and sumbola, which means tokens and symbols,

303
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.079
<v Speaker 7>and what tokens and symbols are are there? Think of

304
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:20.559
<v Speaker 7>them as like bractals of the God sewn throughout the cosmos.

305
00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:26.200
<v Speaker 7>And the idea is to bring together from every kingdom

306
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.319
<v Speaker 7>of nature the token of the God. And by doing

307
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.759
<v Speaker 7>that you make a fit receptacle what's called a Hypodokein

308
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:38.960
<v Speaker 7>you prepare it its epitidiities. You're increasing its ability to

309
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.480
<v Speaker 7>capture something of the ray, like a mirror capturing the

310
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:46.039
<v Speaker 7>ray of the sun, and it can inhabit this a

311
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:52.000
<v Speaker 7>statue or a talisman. So it's different in that we're

312
00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.559
<v Speaker 7>not psychologizing it, which as much as I love the

313
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.799
<v Speaker 7>Golden Dawn system, I see a lot of Golden Dawn

314
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:05.119
<v Speaker 7>practitioners do It's psychologize the system. That kind of thinking

315
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:10.720
<v Speaker 7>makes no sense to the Neoplatonists, that the orgis late antiquity.

316
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Would you would you say that might have been like

317
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Platinus's issue with the Gnostics too, because I think when

318
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.680
<v Speaker 2>I looked into that, it might have been like them,

319
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of a humanizing things that weren't supposed to be humanized.

320
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 7>Plotinus, when you read his Eneads, you get an ambivalence

321
00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.039
<v Speaker 7>from him. You know, he's got a chapter in there

322
00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 7>called against the Gnostics. But in that chapter, it's not

323
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.440
<v Speaker 7>the dualism he's attacking. It's the notion that the demiurge

324
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:48.079
<v Speaker 7>is evil because the concept of the demiurge comes from

325
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.720
<v Speaker 7>Plato's to mais where demiurge, which just means builder. We

326
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.079
<v Speaker 7>might even say it means Mason. But the Builder comes

327
00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.640
<v Speaker 7>along and uses the forms, the platonic forms, the ideas

328
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.039
<v Speaker 7>that exist in the news or the mind of God,

329
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:09.599
<v Speaker 7>the highest God, and he forms them into everything we

330
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:10.480
<v Speaker 7>see around us.

331
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:11.480
<v Speaker 1>And then he.

332
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.920
<v Speaker 7>Creates suke or soul to animate them, which is where

333
00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.920
<v Speaker 7>we get our word anima. If you're familiar with Youngi

334
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.599
<v Speaker 7>and psychology, anima just means soul, but it's the root

335
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:29.240
<v Speaker 7>of the word to animate something. Well, the Gnostics they're

336
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:34.960
<v Speaker 7>primarily coming from a Jewish background, so they're Jews who

337
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.279
<v Speaker 7>have been raised on Genesis, on the Torah, and now

338
00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:42.720
<v Speaker 7>they're encountering Plato and they realize that there is truth

339
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:46.160
<v Speaker 7>in both. But how do I rectify it? And when

340
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:50.000
<v Speaker 7>you look at Genesis in chapter one, it says that

341
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:54.720
<v Speaker 7>Elohem created man, and when you created him, He created

342
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:59.000
<v Speaker 7>him a spiritual being, created him a hermaphrodite.

343
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:00.680
<v Speaker 1>But then by the time.

344
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.160
<v Speaker 7>We get to chapter two, Elohem disappears and it says

345
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.640
<v Speaker 7>that Yahweh that tut you Grammaton created man of the

346
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.920
<v Speaker 7>dust of the ground and then separated the female out

347
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:16.839
<v Speaker 7>of the male. So the Gnostics reading this, they come

348
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.640
<v Speaker 7>to the conclusion that, oh, Elohem must be this higher

349
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:28.720
<v Speaker 7>god principle, while Yahweh Tetragrammaton is this demiurgic principle and

350
00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:33.039
<v Speaker 7>has trapped the spirit of man into matter, into the

351
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.839
<v Speaker 7>dust of the ground, and essentially created a prison for him.

352
00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:42.799
<v Speaker 7>That's what Plutinus is taking issue with, because the demiurge,

353
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:47.279
<v Speaker 7>for Platinus is the noos is the mind of God itself.

354
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:52.799
<v Speaker 7>So when we think about the hierarchy of being in Neoplatonism,

355
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:58.240
<v Speaker 7>there are three things called the hypostaces, which are they're

356
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.119
<v Speaker 7>comparable to the Holy Trinity. In fact, they inform the

357
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.160
<v Speaker 7>Holy Trinity. At the top, we have the monad or

358
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.559
<v Speaker 7>the pegae, which means the source, the one, and it's

359
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:12.279
<v Speaker 7>beyond being. That means it does technically, it doesn't exist

360
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.799
<v Speaker 7>in the way we exist. It's beyond being. Now below

361
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 7>that is the noos or the mind of God. And

362
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.599
<v Speaker 7>this is what became the logos or the Son. Right,

363
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.240
<v Speaker 7>So now we've got the Father and the Son, the logos,

364
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.119
<v Speaker 7>and then below that is suke or soul, the world soul,

365
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:35.440
<v Speaker 7>and this becomes the Holy Spirit and early Christianity. So

366
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:42.759
<v Speaker 7>what Lolotinus understands by demiurge is the same thing Christians

367
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.839
<v Speaker 7>understand by the Sun by Christ.

368
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:47.160
<v Speaker 1>So this is the.

369
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.799
<v Speaker 7>Mind of God, that is the demiurge that through its

370
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:56.559
<v Speaker 7>intelligence organized all of the forms into something and we

371
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:02.279
<v Speaker 7>could say it informed matter into something useful, meaningful with

372
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.160
<v Speaker 7>process and growth and choice, you know.

373
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:07.759
<v Speaker 1>So that's what he's say.

374
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 4>Yesterday we had Peter Mark Adams talking about the the

375
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:23.119
<v Speaker 4>temples with the helped me out Nick completely blank, the

376
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:27.480
<v Speaker 4>in Rome no no, no in Rome, with the underground

377
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.480
<v Speaker 4>temples where they would go and line blanking on it

378
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:32.559
<v Speaker 4>so hard. But they were talking about how in the

379
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:40.279
<v Speaker 4>experience with the Yeah, in that experience they would approach

380
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:43.440
<v Speaker 4>the demiurge as they were and dwelt by the spirit

381
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:47.039
<v Speaker 4>of God. Right, And so that was sort of their

382
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.319
<v Speaker 4>view into looking at the demi urge from the more

383
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.720
<v Speaker 4>European perspective as opposed to thinking that it had to

384
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.559
<v Speaker 4>be an evil force. And I think that's really reflected

385
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.480
<v Speaker 4>in a lot of the Mystery School teachings is is

386
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, the DeMier is the guy who's making all

387
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:05.440
<v Speaker 4>the physical stuff. Yeah, you might not like it all

388
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:08.839
<v Speaker 4>the time, but it's essentially good because you would resist it.

389
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:13.480
<v Speaker 4>And that's essential to Platonism as a whole. Platonism is

390
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 4>radically monast so there's a hierarchy of being with the monat.

391
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:18.799
<v Speaker 1>At the top.

392
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:25.279
<v Speaker 7>There is no devil, there is no evil principle. Everything exists,

393
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 7>Everything participates in being because it participates in the good.

394
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:35.160
<v Speaker 7>Now we can act in a way that causes what's

395
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:39.000
<v Speaker 7>known as privation of the good, almost like erecting an

396
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.279
<v Speaker 7>umbrella over so that the sun won't shine on us.

397
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:51.160
<v Speaker 7>But that doesn't automatically create evil. It's simply is not

398
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 7>participating in the good to the degree that one could.

399
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.519
<v Speaker 7>And instead of evil, that's looked at as more as

400
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:02.359
<v Speaker 7>a tendency toward non being. So there's not good and evil,

401
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:05.640
<v Speaker 7>but there is being and non being, and even non

402
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:09.359
<v Speaker 7>being if we go back as far as amenities, non

403
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 7>being can't be because it's not so it's acting in

404
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.359
<v Speaker 7>an illusory way. That's for something that can never happen. Right,

405
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 7>So yeah, that's that's exactly what I'm what I'm getting at.

406
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.480
<v Speaker 7>And but when I say that Platias was a little

407
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:32.039
<v Speaker 7>bit ambivalent, he still had gnostic tendencies, because you'll see

408
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:35.880
<v Speaker 7>him say and in another place in any Ads, he

409
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:42.880
<v Speaker 7>says that that matter is evil, that if if evil exists,

410
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:48.039
<v Speaker 7>it's it's in matter. And Plato would completely disagree with that.

411
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.839
<v Speaker 7>Pythagoras would disagree with that. It's simply the bottom of

412
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.200
<v Speaker 7>the chain of being where all of those rays, all

413
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 7>of those chains descending from the one, from the forms,

414
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.920
<v Speaker 7>meet and mingle and produce all of the phenomenology that

415
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:10.119
<v Speaker 7>we encounter. So there was a certain self loathing with

416
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.880
<v Speaker 7>Blatinus in terms of being in a body. And this

417
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:17.960
<v Speaker 7>translated even to his student Porphyry, who organized any ats.

418
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:23.880
<v Speaker 7>Porphyry it is said to have been suicidal more than

419
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.759
<v Speaker 7>one time in his life because he was in a body.

420
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:31.960
<v Speaker 7>He felt so ashamed that he was in a body and.

421
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Away for a while, go on vacation. Can he tone

422
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:35.440
<v Speaker 2>go away for a bit and get you glue?

423
00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:42.200
<v Speaker 7>You'd think, yeah, But when Yambokus. I Amblicus comes along,

424
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:47.720
<v Speaker 7>you know. Porphyry writes this this letter to Aniba, which

425
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.400
<v Speaker 7>is one of Iamblicus's students, and he's trying to say

426
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:51.960
<v Speaker 7>theogy is is.

427
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Pointless, it's not a worthwhile practice.

428
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:58.240
<v Speaker 7>And and it's Iamblicus that that answers him in the

429
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.640
<v Speaker 7>guise of an Egyptian priest. Am I think the name

430
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:05.960
<v Speaker 7>he chooses is but he has a very different view.

431
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:10.960
<v Speaker 7>So Plotinus sees the soul, part of the human soul,

432
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:16.079
<v Speaker 7>is always united with the one, meaning the soul is

433
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:22.440
<v Speaker 7>not fully descended into matter. Iamblicus wholeheartedly disagrees with this

434
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.920
<v Speaker 7>and says, no, we are fully descended. That's why what

435
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.640
<v Speaker 7>we do matters, and that if we weren't fully descended,

436
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.640
<v Speaker 7>there would be a gap in the chain of being here,

437
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.920
<v Speaker 7>that it wouldn't connect all the way, and thus would

438
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:43.920
<v Speaker 7>negate the possibility of a scent of return to what's

439
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 7>called epistrophe, return to the God. So we're in a

440
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.079
<v Speaker 7>constant motion of perrotos and epistrophe going down and going up.

441
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:59.680
<v Speaker 7>So he says, no, we're completely embodied. Moreover, the body

442
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:04.599
<v Speaker 7>is not a prison for the soul. It's the means

443
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:09.160
<v Speaker 7>by which the soul can even express itself, because outside

444
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.200
<v Speaker 7>of the realm of the space time continuum, change can't happen.

445
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 7>There's no process, there's no time. Right, so, how how

446
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:18.160
<v Speaker 7>can we.

447
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Learn make our mark on the world?

448
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.079
<v Speaker 7>How can we do anything unless we are fully descended

449
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.079
<v Speaker 7>and unless the body is that the means by which

450
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.319
<v Speaker 7>that the spirit is able to.

451
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Make those changes.

452
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.279
<v Speaker 7>You know, So there's even disagreement within the domain of

453
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:45.079
<v Speaker 7>of Neoplatonism and Plutonis. While it's it's clear he was

454
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:51.400
<v Speaker 7>probably familiar with theogy because he uses language that originates

455
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:53.960
<v Speaker 7>with the Chaldean oracles, and the Caldian oracles is where

456
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.480
<v Speaker 7>we first encounter the word theorgy. This father son Teine

457
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:01.279
<v Speaker 7>both known as the Giuliani. Both of their names were Julian,

458
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.440
<v Speaker 7>but they're the first ones that talk about the orgy

459
00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:12.880
<v Speaker 7>and corfyry. He really he gives us the schematic kind

460
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:18.359
<v Speaker 7>of the way theurgy works, but then later in life

461
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:23.079
<v Speaker 7>rejects it in favor of his master, Platonus's picture of

462
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:29.319
<v Speaker 7>uniting with God through purely through philosophical means. But Iamblicus

463
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 7>rejects this, you know, he says, we can talk all day,

464
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.200
<v Speaker 7>but at some point the words run out. Dialectic can

465
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.319
<v Speaker 7>only get us so far, and when the words run out,

466
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.720
<v Speaker 7>that's where the orgy begins. That's when ritual activity picks

467
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:51.400
<v Speaker 7>up and and can only be the final means by

468
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 7>which we connect with with the gods. And at one

469
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:00.319
<v Speaker 7>point he's talking about the sunta mata the tokens and

470
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.839
<v Speaker 7>how they're magical items, like if we had a piece

471
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.519
<v Speaker 7>of gold to connect us with Helios. He's saying, it's

472
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:13.559
<v Speaker 7>not our intellectual understanding of the fact that gold corresponds

473
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:16.200
<v Speaker 7>to Helios. He said, if that was the case, then

474
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:20.640
<v Speaker 7>any philosopher would be uniting with God or with the

475
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 7>gods all the time. He said, no, it's ritualistic actions

476
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:31.759
<v Speaker 7>that are not understood by the practitioner. And the token

477
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:36.359
<v Speaker 7>affects our scent, of its own power, of its own

478
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 7>connection to the God, that it's a real connection. And

479
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 7>once you start viewing the world in that way, everything changes,

480
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 7>because you're interacting with divinities all the time. You never

481
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.119
<v Speaker 7>there's not a moment that you can't So very similar

482
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.359
<v Speaker 7>in a way to the Egyptian religion, where when they

483
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:04.119
<v Speaker 7>saw an Ibis, they're not thinking, Oh, he corresponds to

484
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:09.000
<v Speaker 7>thought or to uti. That's to uti right there, you know.

485
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:14.359
<v Speaker 7>And that's how the theorists are approaching the world. They're

486
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:19.359
<v Speaker 7>approaching the gods and fractal, microcosmic forms with everything they touch.

487
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 4>So would you consider it more of an animism type

488
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.480
<v Speaker 4>religion as opposed to being more of a polytheistic or

489
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:32.440
<v Speaker 4>monotheistic or monasty.

490
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:36.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's polytheistic. But it's also.

491
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:44.960
<v Speaker 7>The problem arises because you you encounter sayings like all

492
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:50.119
<v Speaker 7>of the gods are present in Zeus, but zeusically all

493
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:54.839
<v Speaker 7>of the gods are present in Herah but heroically right,

494
00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:00.119
<v Speaker 7>So each of the gods are the one God, but

495
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.240
<v Speaker 7>this is how they manifest. And this given scenario and

496
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 7>also our epithidiities, our preparation alters the way we perceive

497
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:13.640
<v Speaker 7>the God because one person might see it one way

498
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.359
<v Speaker 7>in another another way. And this is addressed in Iamblicus

499
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:21.359
<v Speaker 7>and Proclus and the solution. They're saying that it's not

500
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.680
<v Speaker 7>that the God has changed, gods are changeless, it's that

501
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:33.039
<v Speaker 7>people are prepared differently to interact with the one Divinity,

502
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.839
<v Speaker 7>with the one God. So all of the gods are

503
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.319
<v Speaker 7>I don't want to say descended from, but they're part

504
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:47.000
<v Speaker 7>of what's called syra, which means chains. They're part of

505
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 7>the chains of these forms that exists like kind of

506
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.160
<v Speaker 7>like archetypes that exist in the mind of the One God.

507
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 7>So they're all one thing, just like in Kabbalah, all

508
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.839
<v Speaker 7>of the Sepheral they're united in Keather right, it's only

509
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:06.920
<v Speaker 7>after the supernal triad that they be they begin.

510
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:07.519
<v Speaker 1>To be separate.

511
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.039
<v Speaker 7>So in the News, all of the gods are one God.

512
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:15.960
<v Speaker 7>These are ideas in his mind, but based on what

513
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.200
<v Speaker 7>idea is being expressed through what activity that determines how

514
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.400
<v Speaker 7>we perceive the God.

515
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:30.079
<v Speaker 2>If that makes sense, par was there something you wanted

516
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:30.359
<v Speaker 2>to ask?

517
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:32.200
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

518
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.839
<v Speaker 6>I was going to bring up the fact that when

519
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.440
<v Speaker 6>you get into the Calvian oracles they talk about it's

520
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 6>the whisperings of Apollo, but he always takes advice from Zeus.

521
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.559
<v Speaker 6>So again you have this chain, this idea of linking

522
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:48.480
<v Speaker 6>back the source. And it's interesting in regard to talking

523
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:55.240
<v Speaker 6>about theurgy and be like taking on the energetic view

524
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.920
<v Speaker 6>of reality from the standpoint of the God. When you

525
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 6>get into like vood we were talking about the other

526
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.519
<v Speaker 6>night where the gods actually come down as a writer

527
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.239
<v Speaker 6>and participate and dance with the humans, and they talk

528
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 6>directly to God. And then you get into like you're

529
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:18.280
<v Speaker 6>talking about heresies against the gnostics and these ideas of

530
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:23.880
<v Speaker 6>the separation between those that that are seeking theurgy and

531
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:30.159
<v Speaker 6>those that are externalizing it and and shying away from

532
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.559
<v Speaker 6>and so you have this this diametric cleave essentially that

533
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:40.440
<v Speaker 6>has been a battle. It's seemingly as far as you

534
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:41.360
<v Speaker 6>can go back.

535
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:46.559
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it exists today. Anytimes somebody talks about mind over matter,

536
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:54.360
<v Speaker 7>you know, or or or favors intellectual learning over pumping iron.

537
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:59.880
<v Speaker 7>You know, these are false divisions, and that you're you

538
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:09.119
<v Speaker 7>and just as much worship mars aries through reading sun

539
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 7>Zoo or going and lifting some iron and a gym.

540
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 7>You know, those practices are equally effective in terms of

541
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 7>worshiping the gods.

542
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:21.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a false division.

543
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:26.480
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, you're you're absolutely right, and calls it taking on

544
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.199
<v Speaker 7>the mantle of the gods, right, you know, And I

545
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.280
<v Speaker 7>think that's what you're describing. And we have something very

546
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:37.599
<v Speaker 7>similar in Palo I'm a hollow practitioner. And then Palo Cambisa,

547
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.599
<v Speaker 7>which has its origins in Congo just like voodoo. You know,

548
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:50.119
<v Speaker 7>possession is a very real aspect of it, and even

549
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:57.559
<v Speaker 7>communication with the gods through simple divination practices. I'm sure

550
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:02.559
<v Speaker 7>you've you've encountered the use of cows and Santaia and lukumi.

551
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.639
<v Speaker 7>We use chamlongos, which are these coins cut out of

552
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.639
<v Speaker 7>coconut husts that are con cave on one side and

553
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:14.039
<v Speaker 7>convex on the other. And so just like with the cowories,

554
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:18.440
<v Speaker 7>you know, you ask your question, throw them and the

555
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 7>con cave side up. Those are mouths speaking. That's those

556
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.599
<v Speaker 7>are yes. So you could you know, there's a range

557
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 7>of yes and no's and maybes, and rephrase your question.

558
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.920
<v Speaker 7>Yes with conditions, no with conditions, those kinds of things.

559
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.800
<v Speaker 1>But even that, while.

560
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:44.719
<v Speaker 7>Seeing as trivial by Judeo Christian traditions, by Islam, we

561
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:48.960
<v Speaker 7>take that very seriously. And no matter what the answer is,

562
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:50.000
<v Speaker 7>that's what you do.

563
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean?

564
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.719
<v Speaker 7>Don't you don't say, oh, well, that's good advice, but

565
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.239
<v Speaker 7>I think I'm going to do something else. Part of

566
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 7>how you imbue that practice with real power is by

567
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.320
<v Speaker 7>always doing what it says, and in that there is

568
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:12.880
<v Speaker 7>a show of faith, and through that show of faith,

569
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:20.480
<v Speaker 7>there is the increase of the ancestors, the mumpungos, the gods,

570
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:26.199
<v Speaker 7>the damons to want to actually give you useful information

571
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.360
<v Speaker 7>because they know that you're going to follow through with it.

572
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 1>And when you do, you know, you become a.

573
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:39.119
<v Speaker 7>Force of the universe. You're no longer trying to carve

574
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:42.559
<v Speaker 7>a hole out of a mountain. You are a tidle

575
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:48.320
<v Speaker 7>wave because you have the movement of creation behind you, right,

576
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:49.960
<v Speaker 7>And that's kind.

577
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.760
<v Speaker 6>Of let me bring one point up real quick. I've

578
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:57.800
<v Speaker 6>speculated over the years that the Knights Temple are logo

579
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.159
<v Speaker 6>in regard to the two riders and one horse is

580
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.480
<v Speaker 6>exactly describing this process.

581
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.639
<v Speaker 7>That's interesting. Yeah, I've never heard.

582
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.440
<v Speaker 6>That take, but like that headless Yeah, well, I was

583
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:10.840
<v Speaker 6>gonna say.

584
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:14.440
<v Speaker 4>This brings in the concept of the muse. How inspiration

585
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:18.159
<v Speaker 4>can strike one person and unless you follow through with

586
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:21.679
<v Speaker 4>the with the instructions and the inspiration that's been given

587
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:24.519
<v Speaker 4>to you, that mus can leave you and you won't

588
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:32.960
<v Speaker 4>get it back in the same form, the.

589
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:35.360
<v Speaker 7>Same inspiration slippery little clouds. You know, if it comes

590
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.800
<v Speaker 7>to you and you don't act on it, you better

591
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 7>believe somebody else is going to have the same I

592
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.599
<v Speaker 7>shortly after and if they act that ship.

593
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Yo. You know it's crazy. You know how many times

594
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:52.679
<v Speaker 2>I should you not? Even with other co hosts on

595
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 2>the show, we talk about topics that we would cover

596
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 2>and then we would never get to do it, and

597
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.000
<v Speaker 2>somebody else a few weeks later would be like fuck, man, like,

598
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>what's the odds of that?

599
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

600
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.239
<v Speaker 2>You got it a lot, a lot to where it's

601
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.000
<v Speaker 2>like freaky, Yeah.

602
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.840
<v Speaker 6>Well, who I was gonna say. When you look at

603
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 6>the Cotton Gin, there were numerous people that came up

604
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.079
<v Speaker 6>with the patent at the same time. Same thing with

605
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:19.679
<v Speaker 6>the Wright brothers. There was another couple of brothers on

606
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:21.639
<v Speaker 6>the other side of the earth. You know that there

607
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.119
<v Speaker 6>were formulations. It's this, these things are in the air.

608
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:29.239
<v Speaker 6>I think it's the intrinsic, fractal line nature of the

609
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.199
<v Speaker 6>growth of what we are as a whole, as humanity

610
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 6>that's kind of persisting and pushing towards some unseen divine end.

611
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:43.480
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Darwin too, you know, Darwin with the theory of

612
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 7>evolution at the same time is a completely unconnected researcher

613
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.559
<v Speaker 7>came up with it. And and and if we look

614
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:58.039
<v Speaker 7>at like Empedocles, who was a pre Socratic philosopher, but

615
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:02.760
<v Speaker 7>also a magician and a gooies uh, what we might

616
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:05.039
<v Speaker 7>today call a necromancer.

617
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.159
<v Speaker 1>But he talks about ideas.

618
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 7>As conscious beings and they they come to you, and

619
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:22.000
<v Speaker 7>if you entertain what they are and give it voice,

620
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.800
<v Speaker 7>they will stay with you and come to you more often.

621
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:28.639
<v Speaker 7>But if you don't, he says, they will fly off

622
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 7>and find someone that is more in line with with

623
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.519
<v Speaker 7>what they represent, and that person will receive the idea,

624
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.119
<v Speaker 7>and even into Christianity, there's there's this idea in Saint

625
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:46.039
<v Speaker 7>Augustine where he's he mentions. He says, if you were

626
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.000
<v Speaker 7>to see an angel, he says, angels don't have bodies,

627
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.400
<v Speaker 7>they're not material logics, so you wouldn't see them.

628
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:53.280
<v Speaker 1>With your eyes.

629
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.679
<v Speaker 7>You would instead encounter them in the realm of ideas.

630
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.760
<v Speaker 7>They would come to you as an epiphany, a revelation,

631
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:06.679
<v Speaker 7>you know. So it's this idea that ideas are conscious

632
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.000
<v Speaker 7>and have motives of their.

633
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Own, and if you.

634
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.360
<v Speaker 7>Are too lazy in the moment to act on it,

635
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:22.440
<v Speaker 7>they don't wait. They have no patience, very macy.

636
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Epiphany is a funny word because in Greek, you know,

637
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 4>it means the appearance of a god. Right, that's the

638
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.760
<v Speaker 4>theophoy is the epiphany, and to us it's like, well,

639
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:36.159
<v Speaker 4>I just had an idea, and so we've sort of

640
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.519
<v Speaker 4>lost the concept of how sacred these thoughts can be.

641
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.159
<v Speaker 1>And how corrected they to the rest of the universe.

642
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:44.880
<v Speaker 1>And how does it feel when you have an epiphany?

643
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.360
<v Speaker 7>It comes with a sense of enthusiasm, right right, and

644
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:54.119
<v Speaker 7>enthusiasmos it means the God is inside me, you know,

645
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:01.039
<v Speaker 7>So inspiration, enthusiasm, epiphany, all of these ideas. We talk

646
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:04.559
<v Speaker 7>about it artistically, but really what we're dealing with is

647
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:10.280
<v Speaker 7>the reality of divine forces putting their fingers on us

648
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:15.679
<v Speaker 7>and you know, hoping probably that we we'll do something

649
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:19.559
<v Speaker 7>with it. But I have a feeling that there's no hope.

650
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 7>There's no chance involved. They know if you will, they

651
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 7>know if you won't. And there's probably more to do

652
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:30.079
<v Speaker 7>with with teaching a lesson, you know, like you just said,

653
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.800
<v Speaker 7>you don't do the podcast on that somebody else does

654
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:38.559
<v Speaker 7>that teaches you the lesson to don't hesitate act now

655
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:41.119
<v Speaker 7>live in the moment. There is no future, there is

656
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:46.280
<v Speaker 7>no past. There's this eternal, spinning gray minute, and that's

657
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:47.880
<v Speaker 7>the one opportunity.

658
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:51.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and I guess it also comes back to what

659
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.800
<v Speaker 5>you were talking about. The I don't know the name

660
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.440
<v Speaker 5>you used, but the in Portuguese would be bouzius, which

661
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 5>is like the concave stuff that they.

662
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.239
<v Speaker 1>Use to get the information from.

663
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.079
<v Speaker 5>Where it's like, whatever information you're getting there, it's most

664
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:08.760
<v Speaker 5>likely what should follow already, like you're in period, supposed

665
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:11.199
<v Speaker 5>to be already something important, So go and follow it,

666
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:13.960
<v Speaker 5>don't discuss it. It's like intuition. You get the intuition,

667
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.599
<v Speaker 5>follow it. Otherwise they're not, and you're gonna see, Oh

668
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:19.920
<v Speaker 5>fuck I should why not?

669
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.119
<v Speaker 1>You know? That's exactly it. Yeah.

670
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.519
<v Speaker 2>I remember one time I saw an interview with David

671
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Lynch and he was going on about the whole point

672
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.599
<v Speaker 2>of forgetting an idea, of losing an idea, and like

673
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:34.280
<v Speaker 2>how devastating that can be to an artist. He was saying,

674
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.159
<v Speaker 2>you may want to actually kill yourself because you don't

675
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:37.760
<v Speaker 2>want to lose it. Was something crazy like that, are

676
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:39.960
<v Speaker 2>you gonna want yeah?

677
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeahs stealing for the.

678
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 2>You know.

679
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:48.559
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

680
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

681
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He has said some great stuff. Did any of

682
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:54.800
<v Speaker 2>you have other questions and stuff? I don't want to

683
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:55.280
<v Speaker 2>be the only one.

684
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.119
<v Speaker 6>Well, I was going to say, as an artist myself,

685
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.440
<v Speaker 6>I have a notebook, I have post it notes. I'm

686
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 6>constantly writing things down to remind myself for inspiration to

687
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:10.199
<v Speaker 6>move forward, for that enthusiasm. But it's interesting when you

688
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.800
<v Speaker 6>get into these ways of touching on these divn these

689
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:19.440
<v Speaker 6>divine energies. You have, uh, like we were talking about

690
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 6>bringing the God into yourself. You have the inspiration that

691
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:29.119
<v Speaker 6>comes to you. You have divination practices, you have dreams

692
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.719
<v Speaker 6>and and these things, you know, following the origins back

693
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:38.719
<v Speaker 6>you know, through ancient Kaldia, into the Canonites, going back

694
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.800
<v Speaker 6>to Nimrod, going to the fourth son of Noah and

695
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:45.760
<v Speaker 6>learning these divinations. And they even say that, uh, the

696
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.880
<v Speaker 6>use of ecstatic practices was most likely brought into India

697
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.920
<v Speaker 6>by the Scithians, you know, so it's in it's this

698
00:44:53.920 --> 00:45:00.199
<v Speaker 6>this this transient kind of ecstatic philosophical belief system them

699
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:04.159
<v Speaker 6>that has kind of branched out and connects so many

700
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:09.599
<v Speaker 6>of these systems, but to many is looked at even

701
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:12.519
<v Speaker 6>though it's one of the oldest practices, it's looked at

702
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:19.440
<v Speaker 6>as you know, potentially evil because of the unknown, because

703
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:24.760
<v Speaker 6>of the fact that people don't understand the concepts and

704
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.039
<v Speaker 6>haven't realized that they are as well participating in.

705
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:33.960
<v Speaker 1>These things right, right, all the time, yes, all the time.

706
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:39.000
<v Speaker 7>We're we're always participating in the gods in the muses,

707
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.360
<v Speaker 7>but it does the idea of evil has become so

708
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:52.480
<v Speaker 7>prevalent with the introduction of Judaeo Christianity into the thought model.

709
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:59.320
<v Speaker 7>And it's ironic because both of these religions insist they're monistic.

710
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:00.480
<v Speaker 1>There's one God.

711
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:04.760
<v Speaker 7>But if we're going to posit a devil, we've created

712
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:11.039
<v Speaker 7>a dualistic framework. If he's equally powerful but opposite, we're

713
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:16.719
<v Speaker 7>in Zoroastrian territory. We've Leftmanism. And that's what I like

714
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:21.880
<v Speaker 7>so much about Orthodoxy, about the really early Christianity like origin,

715
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:25.760
<v Speaker 7>you know, he he, he.

716
00:46:26.199 --> 00:46:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Talks about.

717
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:34.199
<v Speaker 7>Apple catastasis meant appo meaning not kta meaning going down,

718
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:38.360
<v Speaker 7>and stasis meaning stay there. So he's he's he's refuting

719
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:43.199
<v Speaker 7>the idea of an eternal hell, saying that that makes

720
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:48.639
<v Speaker 7>no sense if if Christ's sacrifice was truly absolute, there

721
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.599
<v Speaker 7>can be no remainder, not even a devil, you know.

722
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:58.159
<v Speaker 7>But it's it's harried so far up into modern times.

723
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:04.280
<v Speaker 7>You know, we look at grimoires with like goetic texts

724
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:10.480
<v Speaker 7>and the princes of Hell and commanding demons. When you

725
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:13.800
<v Speaker 7>look at the etymologies of the names of these these demons,

726
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:18.360
<v Speaker 7>h at least half the time they're the names of

727
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:23.360
<v Speaker 7>Hagan gods. You know, they've just been recast as demons.

728
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:29.800
<v Speaker 7>So when you encounter Astaroth, you know, we're encountering Astarte,

729
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.559
<v Speaker 7>we're encountering Inana.

730
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:34.679
<v Speaker 1>You know who is.

731
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:42.280
<v Speaker 7>And and on the material plane, the planet Venus, you know,

732
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.519
<v Speaker 7>she's the one that has the power to enter the

733
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:49.400
<v Speaker 7>underworld and get back out again, which was unheard of.

734
00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:52.320
<v Speaker 1>That's really.

735
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:57.400
<v Speaker 7>Like with Hades and Greece. You know, you you if

736
00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:59.679
<v Speaker 7>you're dead, you go there and you don't get out

737
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:03.199
<v Speaker 7>except maybe one time a year, and it's temporary. Or

738
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:08.519
<v Speaker 7>if you're in there, you don't get out permanently, which

739
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:13.039
<v Speaker 7>is why the Eleucinian mysteries were such a big deal,

740
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:18.239
<v Speaker 7>because it opens the door for that possibility. That's why Christianity,

741
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:22.840
<v Speaker 7>originally as it was originally conceived, was so important. People

742
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 7>don't think about the fact that when Christ was crucified,

743
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:32.599
<v Speaker 7>he was crucified in a platonic cosmos. Hades is a

744
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.480
<v Speaker 7>Greek idea and in the Creed. If you read the

745
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:40.440
<v Speaker 7>Creed and Orthodoxy it says that immediately after he was crucified,

746
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.960
<v Speaker 7>he descended into Hades to release the saints, right, and

747
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.880
<v Speaker 7>he's going to give them mansions in his father's house.

748
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.840
<v Speaker 7>Well his father's house. What he's talking about what every

749
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.960
<v Speaker 7>Greek and Roman person at the time recognized from that language.

750
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.760
<v Speaker 7>He's talking about Olympus, where the gods live, but men

751
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.800
<v Speaker 7>have never been allowed to go, you know. So it's

752
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:12.440
<v Speaker 7>interesting because he's both confirming the Greek cosmo conception and

753
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:17.239
<v Speaker 7>overturning it at the same time by changing the rules.

754
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:20.800
<v Speaker 7>But it still wasn't new, because this is what we

755
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:25.039
<v Speaker 7>have been seeing with the mystery traditions, with the orphic tradition.

756
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 7>When Orpheus, even though he doesn't succeed in getting Urides

757
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.719
<v Speaker 7>all the way out of Hades, the possibility exists, you know,

758
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 7>so fascinating way that this stuff flip flops and we

759
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:46.920
<v Speaker 7>inherit this idea of demons, when really it's a corruption

760
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:51.800
<v Speaker 7>of the word damon and a damon. There are orders

761
00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 7>of damons, but at the top of the order of

762
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.719
<v Speaker 7>damons are angulos, which is where we get our word angels,

763
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.679
<v Speaker 7>which means messenger, just like hermis, just like we said

764
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:07.599
<v Speaker 7>earlier about what damons mean. They're messengers that exist between

765
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:08.559
<v Speaker 7>man and the gods.

766
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:12.639
<v Speaker 4>But it gets so much worse when you translate daimonis

767
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:15.280
<v Speaker 4>into the Roman, which then becomes genius.

768
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:16.679
<v Speaker 2>So now.

769
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:21.639
<v Speaker 4>By condemning the demons, you're condemning your own genius. In

770
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:25.119
<v Speaker 4>some ways. That's the spirit that expresses through your body.

771
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:27.719
<v Speaker 1>And we think about that wrong.

772
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.559
<v Speaker 7>You know, in modern times we think of it a

773
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.840
<v Speaker 7>genius as somebody that has a natural proclivity for a

774
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:39.400
<v Speaker 7>certain thing, whether it be mathematics, science, music. But that's

775
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:44.440
<v Speaker 7>not a genius. A genius you acquire your genius through

776
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:50.599
<v Speaker 7>devotional practices, through doing the very thing that your character

777
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 7>incarnated to do, and that Socrates called it his damonion,

778
00:50:56.119 --> 00:51:00.360
<v Speaker 7>which is just another way of saying his damon. But yeah,

779
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:05.119
<v Speaker 7>your genius is something that you acquire, and once you do,

780
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.519
<v Speaker 7>you are linked up with the gods. Because the genius,

781
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 7>the daemon is never not in line with the god

782
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 7>above him. Right, So you become a tidle wave. Your

783
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:25.119
<v Speaker 7>output gets just skyrockets. Your ability to to burn through books,

784
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 7>especially if they're books in which you're vitally interested, there's

785
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:32.159
<v Speaker 7>no limit, you know, And I'm sure, a lot of

786
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:36.280
<v Speaker 7>you have experienced that. I know when I first got

787
00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:40.079
<v Speaker 7>on this path, had my first you know, to put

788
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:44.559
<v Speaker 7>it in woo wu terms like spiritual awakening, I couldn't

789
00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:47.280
<v Speaker 7>get enough. I'd spend eight hours a day in the bookstores.

790
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 7>I didn't have any money, so I couldn't buy the books,

791
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.519
<v Speaker 7>but i'd sure as fuck sit in there and read them,

792
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:55.440
<v Speaker 7>you know. And there was no limit to how much

793
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:59.559
<v Speaker 7>I could fit up here, and I never never had

794
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:01.480
<v Speaker 7>that capacity prior.

795
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:08.639
<v Speaker 2>Does anybody have any more questions before as something a

796
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:09.360
<v Speaker 2>little bit different?

797
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Sure? Sorry, Nick, I'll jump in. I know I've been

798
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.239
<v Speaker 1>a little quiet. Pete.

799
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:18.119
<v Speaker 3>Would you say that those higher noedic experiences, I know

800
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 3>you said you use a psychoactive substances at the very beginning,

801
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.480
<v Speaker 3>But like when you were engaging in those noedic processes

802
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:28.440
<v Speaker 3>of reading, engaging with the text or the fire of perception,

803
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 3>it's very gebbatic and hessetic at the same time, because

804
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:35.519
<v Speaker 3>you're bringing sort of an asynthesis into different So would

805
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:39.679
<v Speaker 3>you say that you were following a particular hermeneutic through

806
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.159
<v Speaker 3>those texts or a particular even an ideological or cosmological one,

807
00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Like what are the particulars that helped you sort of engage.

808
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:53.719
<v Speaker 1>With that not at the time, because I didn't know anything.

809
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:59.679
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, at the time, I was just gathering information. It

810
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:04.920
<v Speaker 7>would be a number of years before uhh, I really

811
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:12.880
<v Speaker 7>started getting my hands on maps like the Azhaym, the

812
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:16.360
<v Speaker 7>Kabbala try of life. And you know, once I had

813
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.159
<v Speaker 7>these maps and had acquired this new language, I could

814
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:23.519
<v Speaker 7>interpret the information that I had read and retained.

815
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.199
<v Speaker 1>But at the time I was I was a tabolou

816
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:29.440
<v Speaker 1>rasa and I was I had. I had no.

817
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:33.679
<v Speaker 7>Idea what was going on, and that part of that

818
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.719
<v Speaker 7>I liked. You know, there was a certain sacred kind

819
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:42.079
<v Speaker 7>of vulnerability being suspended in the mystery, and I think

820
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:46.239
<v Speaker 7>that was integral to the beginning of the journey.

821
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.920
<v Speaker 1>But no I had I had no uh.

822
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:54.320
<v Speaker 7>Framework by which to interpret even my own experience at

823
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:59.320
<v Speaker 7>that point. So it was simply pick it up, read it,

824
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:03.559
<v Speaker 7>put it down, and then as I read further texts,

825
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:10.719
<v Speaker 7>I'd compare contrast, you know, find analogs. If they didn't agree,

826
00:54:11.079 --> 00:54:14.639
<v Speaker 7>the next step is rectify that. Find a text that

827
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:18.280
<v Speaker 7>meets them in the middle, explains why it doesn't fit.

828
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:22.280
<v Speaker 7>But one of the first books that I read and

829
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.039
<v Speaker 7>I haven't read it, and it's been you know, twenty years,

830
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:28.920
<v Speaker 7>so I don't know how it holds up today. But

831
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:32.119
<v Speaker 7>it was a book by dal Malachi called Gnosis of

832
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:37.719
<v Speaker 7>the Cosmic Christ, which is a Sophia and gnostic approach

833
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.599
<v Speaker 7>to kabbala and that was very helpful because I was

834
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:50.559
<v Speaker 7>experiencing a degree of cognitive dissonance with reading Pabbalistic texts

835
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:55.039
<v Speaker 7>and gnostic texts, because remember I was largely going from

836
00:54:55.079 --> 00:55:00.719
<v Speaker 7>things I had encountered in that Scottish Grite book, and

837
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:03.760
<v Speaker 7>there's a lot of talk of Kabbalah a gnosticism in there,

838
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:09.119
<v Speaker 7>with no effort made to distinguish the two. And so

839
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:12.360
<v Speaker 7>once I started diving into those texts, it was clear

840
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.159
<v Speaker 7>they're not There's some some crossover, but they're not talking

841
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:21.480
<v Speaker 7>about the same thing. And you know, dow Malachi back

842
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:23.559
<v Speaker 7>then at least, like I said, I don't know how

843
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:25.880
<v Speaker 7>that holds up today. I don't know how I would

844
00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:31.000
<v Speaker 7>feel about that book today, but it did. It did

845
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:36.039
<v Speaker 7>smooth smooth some things over for me and pointed me

846
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.320
<v Speaker 7>in other directions. And there was even a time when

847
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:45.039
<v Speaker 7>I wrote him. I must have been eighteen or nineteen,

848
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.159
<v Speaker 7>but I said, I said, I can relate to a

849
00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:51.320
<v Speaker 7>lot of things you're describing in here, because he's talking

850
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 7>about visionary experiences through ritual, which I hadn't experienced yet.

851
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.000
<v Speaker 7>I didn't experience anything like that until I started practic

852
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:04.760
<v Speaker 7>to sing yoga and then got into magic. But I

853
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:06.880
<v Speaker 7>was saying, you know, a lot of what you're saying,

854
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:12.159
<v Speaker 7>I've encountered, but it was on substances like psilocybin and LSD.

855
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.079
<v Speaker 7>And I said, where do you stand on this? Because

856
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:19.199
<v Speaker 7>nowhere in the book does he discuss that. And he

857
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.960
<v Speaker 7>was gracious enough to open up with a stranger about

858
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:26.599
<v Speaker 7>that and say, well, you know, these practices don't work

859
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:30.000
<v Speaker 7>for everyone. The ones that they don't work for, he

860
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:32.159
<v Speaker 7>said that we all everyone that comes to me.

861
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:34.000
<v Speaker 1>We start with these practices.

862
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:38.280
<v Speaker 7>If they continue to do them properly and still aren't

863
00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:41.719
<v Speaker 7>getting results, he said, I call those hard cases and

864
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:44.800
<v Speaker 7>with them, I take them to the Native American Church

865
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:47.840
<v Speaker 7>and they get a dose of peyote and usually they

866
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:50.519
<v Speaker 7>come back and it gives them, you know, a frame

867
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.000
<v Speaker 7>of reference. They say, oh my god, I get it.

868
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.119
<v Speaker 7>Then they go back and say, okay, let's start over

869
00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:59.840
<v Speaker 7>and see if we can do these practices and see

870
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:03.320
<v Speaker 7>if you recognize any of the phenomena that you saw

871
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.960
<v Speaker 7>on the payote, you know, And I thought that was

872
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.760
<v Speaker 7>a pretty smart way to go about it.

873
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Open the door.

874
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:17.199
<v Speaker 5>Would you say, would you say, even after that you

875
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 5>got to know and practice like magic and all this stuff,

876
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:27.199
<v Speaker 5>if you ever did something again, like any substances archdelics, yeah, exactly,

877
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:31.239
<v Speaker 5>if you felt you felt the difference like from doing

878
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:34.320
<v Speaker 5>it after, then you I kind of have a bit

879
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:38.000
<v Speaker 5>more control maybe over that kind of the.

880
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:42.440
<v Speaker 7>First thing I noticed after going back to psychedelics because

881
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:44.559
<v Speaker 7>I took a break from them for a long time

882
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:48.920
<v Speaker 7>to try and get a frame of reference for that

883
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:52.239
<v Speaker 7>territory from from somebody who knew more than I did.

884
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:56.159
<v Speaker 7>But when I returned to them, the first thing I

885
00:57:56.280 --> 00:58:01.199
<v Speaker 7>noticed was that it wasn't free anymore. I couldn't just

886
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.920
<v Speaker 7>go in there and laugh and and trip out and

887
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:04.639
<v Speaker 7>have a good time.

888
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Every time. It was like, Okay, this is work, Get

889
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:09.760
<v Speaker 1>to work.

890
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:13.800
<v Speaker 7>So that's one way that I still use them often,

891
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:19.599
<v Speaker 7>especially on solstices, equinoxes, full moons, new moons.

892
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:21.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, I try my best.

893
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:28.719
<v Speaker 7>To ritualize it, but it's always it's always work, and

894
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:33.320
<v Speaker 7>it's all, there are also more consequences. You know, early

895
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:39.440
<v Speaker 7>on there weren't really consequences, but you really see in

896
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:46.400
<v Speaker 7>real time the consequences not just of actions, but of intentions, thoughts,

897
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.000
<v Speaker 7>tendencies to react to the world in a certain way,

898
00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:54.000
<v Speaker 7>like the buddhistk Sankara, your tendency to respond in a

899
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:58.920
<v Speaker 7>certain way, and you see that in real time, and

900
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.199
<v Speaker 7>you know, ignorance is blitz. I was probably seeing that

901
00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:05.239
<v Speaker 7>in real time at eleven and twelve, but I wouldn't

902
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:08.800
<v Speaker 7>have recognized it. But being in a place where I

903
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:13.400
<v Speaker 7>recognize it, yeah, it's it's absolutely changed the way I

904
00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:15.360
<v Speaker 7>do it.

905
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:18.760
<v Speaker 1>To quote Jim Eshelman, who I'm sure some of you

906
00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:19.119
<v Speaker 1>with a.

907
00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:22.719
<v Speaker 7>Background and the Lima no Jim, but he said one

908
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:28.199
<v Speaker 7>time to me, he said, I never bring psychedelics to

909
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:32.559
<v Speaker 7>my ritual, but I always bring ritual to my psychedelics.

910
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:35.480
<v Speaker 1>And that's that's me for sure.

911
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

912
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, sorry, Matt, I have a quick follow up

913
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:43.280
<v Speaker 3>for you, PD from your previous comment, but even the

914
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:47.480
<v Speaker 3>one you just sort of articulated now is not Would

915
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:51.159
<v Speaker 3>you be comfortable if you described your sort of journey

916
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:56.360
<v Speaker 3>into these the higher nosis as a bride perhaps traveling

917
00:59:56.559 --> 01:00:00.320
<v Speaker 3>through that path and into your so seeing the world

918
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:05.079
<v Speaker 3>for the first time, like preconceptually not having names for things,

919
01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:09.039
<v Speaker 3>and then perhaps crossing into that carnal ground of ideas,

920
01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:11.599
<v Speaker 3>as you said, being able to throw everything up in

921
01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:14.960
<v Speaker 3>the air and also rectify. So that's a very yosodic

922
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:18.559
<v Speaker 3>kind of property, is to be able to sort of

923
01:00:18.599 --> 01:00:20.960
<v Speaker 3>bring all things into synthesis at tiffer it, but then

924
01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:24.320
<v Speaker 3>also bring it down back into your sead and say, yeah,

925
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:27.559
<v Speaker 3>this is perhaps closer to the truth, or perhaps has

926
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:29.239
<v Speaker 3>a contour closer to the truth.

927
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

928
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:41.119
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Well, for starters, I see any psychedelic drug as

929
01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:45.920
<v Speaker 7>being related to the supernal triad at least has the

930
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:49.920
<v Speaker 7>potential to get you into those spaces. You might not

931
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:53.239
<v Speaker 7>stay there. Everything that goes up must come down. But

932
01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:58.639
<v Speaker 7>for the lower sepharo there, I still associate.

933
01:00:58.159 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Them with drugs.

934
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:03.039
<v Speaker 7>You know, if I do a stimulant, I understand that

935
01:01:03.159 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 7>it's propelling my psyche into oh, you know, if I

936
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:12.840
<v Speaker 7>do an aphrodisiac, it's propelling my consciousness into ned Zach.

937
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:15.920
<v Speaker 1>I see it that way. Now, the.

938
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:23.559
<v Speaker 7>Apologies in my personal journey before I had any language

939
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:28.039
<v Speaker 7>for this stuff, and what really made me say I

940
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:32.679
<v Speaker 7>need somebody to kind of give me a leg up

941
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:34.360
<v Speaker 7>here because I don't know what's going on.

942
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:35.960
<v Speaker 1>It was.

943
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:41.440
<v Speaker 7>I must have been sixteen because I was driving, so

944
01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:47.239
<v Speaker 7>I know I had my driver's license. And my younger brother, Michael,

945
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:53.880
<v Speaker 7>he's on x as God Sauce, a brilliant guy, way

946
01:01:53.920 --> 01:02:00.679
<v Speaker 7>smarter than me. But we had gone to a festival

947
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:03.519
<v Speaker 7>in Memphis that it's called Memphis in May, which is

948
01:02:03.599 --> 01:02:06.199
<v Speaker 7>kind of like Memphis's Marty Gras.

949
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:08.280
<v Speaker 6>I've been there a bunch of times.

950
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:08.920
<v Speaker 1>I love that.

951
01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:12.440
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, well, if you want, if you've been there back

952
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:16.480
<v Speaker 7>in the nineties, you probably remember Hippie Hill where all

953
01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:20.840
<v Speaker 7>the hippies would be playing bongos around the Elvis statue.

954
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:23.360
<v Speaker 1>And yes, we.

955
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:27.039
<v Speaker 7>Expressly went there for the purpose of getting LSD because

956
01:02:27.079 --> 01:02:29.960
<v Speaker 7>every time we'd ever been there, we'd found some, but

957
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.280
<v Speaker 7>I didn't want to drive with it, you know. So

958
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.719
<v Speaker 7>we found this guy that we were familiar with, and

959
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:42.000
<v Speaker 7>I bought seven hits for each of us, me, my brother,

960
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:46.360
<v Speaker 7>and two other friends that were with us, and we

961
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:48.199
<v Speaker 7>didn't have anything to put it on. So we've got

962
01:02:48.199 --> 01:02:52.800
<v Speaker 7>this puddle of seven drops in our hand and we

963
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:55.320
<v Speaker 7>all look at each other and we're like, yeah, let's

964
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:59.079
<v Speaker 7>just down it and jump in the car and hopefully

965
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:02.679
<v Speaker 7>we'll be home before this gets out of hand, because

966
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:06.000
<v Speaker 7>Memphis is about an hour drive from Tupoula.

967
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:06.920
<v Speaker 5>And.

968
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:15.519
<v Speaker 7>It was a traumatic drive. I'll say that now. When

969
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:20.639
<v Speaker 7>we finally stop the car and we're all getting out.

970
01:03:20.679 --> 01:03:22.960
<v Speaker 7>We stopped at the friend's house, who I'm letting We

971
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:25.320
<v Speaker 7>were all supposed to hang out, but he was kind

972
01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:28.400
<v Speaker 7>of wigging out wanted to go home. So we drive

973
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:32.000
<v Speaker 7>him home and I tell everybody, get out, stretch your legs.

974
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:32.960
<v Speaker 1>You know.

975
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.039
<v Speaker 7>We still have to drive some more, but let's take

976
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.320
<v Speaker 7>a breather. And my brother won't get out of the car,

977
01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:45.079
<v Speaker 7>and he's he won't communicate with me. He's not responsive,

978
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:52.760
<v Speaker 7>he's not catatonic, but he's completely disconnected.

979
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:52.800
<v Speaker 1>From the world.

980
01:03:53.760 --> 01:04:01.639
<v Speaker 7>And as this evening goes on, he does some things

981
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:06.320
<v Speaker 7>that I can't to this day, I can't explain magical

982
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:13.280
<v Speaker 7>type things. And finally he tells me in this joking

983
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:15.960
<v Speaker 7>kind of way, He's like, you know, I don't know

984
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:19.159
<v Speaker 7>why I'm telling you this. You're You're just a puppet,

985
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:24.880
<v Speaker 7>you know. But he says, I'm God. I know, I'm God,

986
01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:32.840
<v Speaker 7>I am the one, and I was like, buddy, you're

987
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:37.880
<v Speaker 7>just tripping. You know, you're you're not handling the lsd well,

988
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:42.280
<v Speaker 7>but you're not God. I promise. I know your mother,

989
01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:47.280
<v Speaker 7>you were born, you know. But he's like, no, I

990
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:56.000
<v Speaker 7>am God. I wore this mask my whole life and

991
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.360
<v Speaker 7>tricked myself into believing I was that mask.

992
01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:00.159
<v Speaker 1>He said, but but.

993
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:05.280
<v Speaker 7>Now I realize I am all of you, and I

994
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:08.440
<v Speaker 7>am basically the only thing that's real. I work you

995
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:12.920
<v Speaker 7>all like puppets. And he's like, again, I'm only telling

996
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:16.039
<v Speaker 7>you this because I just need to say it out loud,

997
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.599
<v Speaker 7>because you don't matter. You're just a puppet, you know.

998
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:23.280
<v Speaker 7>And I had no idea what to do with this.

999
01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:27.960
<v Speaker 7>I ended up calling my mother and I'm like, Mom,

1000
01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:33.920
<v Speaker 7>I'm sorry I woke you up, but I gave Michael

1001
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:36.639
<v Speaker 7>seven hits of acid and he thinks he's God, and

1002
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:40.039
<v Speaker 7>I need you to explain to him that you pushed

1003
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.079
<v Speaker 7>him out of your vagina so that he can understand

1004
01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:47.079
<v Speaker 7>that he can't be God if he was born, I said,

1005
01:05:47.079 --> 01:05:49.800
<v Speaker 7>because in my state, I was like, logically, that would

1006
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:52.800
<v Speaker 7>mean you were the bigger God if you produced him.

1007
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:53.880
<v Speaker 6>And you still.

1008
01:05:55.159 --> 01:05:56.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh, yes, and.

1009
01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:01.360
<v Speaker 7>This is back when you know there were no cell phones,

1010
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:05.159
<v Speaker 7>so we had to borrow a wireless with the long

1011
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:06.760
<v Speaker 7>antenna phone.

1012
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:11.079
<v Speaker 1>And she's screaming at me, you did what you know?

1013
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.239
<v Speaker 7>And I'm like, just please talk to Michael so I

1014
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:18.239
<v Speaker 7>can get him home, because by this point he's gotten

1015
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:22.199
<v Speaker 7>out of the car but won't get back in. And

1016
01:06:22.239 --> 01:06:25.800
<v Speaker 7>he takes the phone and I can hear my mom screaming,

1017
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:32.679
<v Speaker 7>and he looks at the phone and just effortlessly snaps

1018
01:06:32.679 --> 01:06:36.320
<v Speaker 7>it into two pieces and throws these pieces away. So

1019
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:40.639
<v Speaker 7>long story Shortyes, this night, this was a very traumatic night.

1020
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:47.159
<v Speaker 7>After about seventy two hours, he finally that look left

1021
01:06:47.239 --> 01:06:51.880
<v Speaker 7>his eyes and he seemed to be somewhat back to normal.

1022
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:55.960
<v Speaker 7>But to be one honest good you can go read

1023
01:06:55.960 --> 01:07:00.280
<v Speaker 7>his X posts. He's he's never fully come down. He's

1024
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:05.119
<v Speaker 7>still he is God. He is the one we're all

1025
01:07:05.159 --> 01:07:09.119
<v Speaker 7>puppets that's never left him. It forced him into a

1026
01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:18.800
<v Speaker 7>permanent syllipsism. So I always thought at that time that

1027
01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:22.360
<v Speaker 7>that he just kind of lost his ship on LSD.

1028
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:30.079
<v Speaker 7>It wouldn't be another for another maybe six seven months.

1029
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.960
<v Speaker 7>That I took three hits of LSD with two hits

1030
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:42.960
<v Speaker 7>of mescaline, and I saw a firsthand what he was,

1031
01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:45.159
<v Speaker 7>what he meant, what he.

1032
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Was talking about.

1033
01:07:47.840 --> 01:07:53.320
<v Speaker 7>I was the universe, the boundaries of myself completely dissolved.

1034
01:07:55.159 --> 01:08:02.119
<v Speaker 7>Time didn't exist, space didn't exist. And I understood while

1035
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:04.440
<v Speaker 7>he for him it was a negative, we were puppets.

1036
01:08:05.159 --> 01:08:09.480
<v Speaker 7>I didn't see it as that. It was more everyone

1037
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:13.840
<v Speaker 7>is me that you pick up where the Danny game

1038
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.880
<v Speaker 7>I play leaves off, and that's how we have completion.

1039
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:21.319
<v Speaker 7>And it came with this idea that there is only

1040
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:25.920
<v Speaker 7>one God and it doesn't understand itself. I don't understand

1041
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:30.840
<v Speaker 7>myself was the thought process. So what better way to

1042
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:37.279
<v Speaker 7>gain self knowledge than to play multiple roles that can interact.

1043
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:40.279
<v Speaker 1>With itself subjectively? Right?

1044
01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:46.520
<v Speaker 7>To gain self knowledge through this illusion of multiple players.

1045
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:54.520
<v Speaker 7>And it was both ecstatic and absolutely terrifying. And so

1046
01:08:54.560 --> 01:09:00.279
<v Speaker 7>when I came down from that, that's when I said, uh,

1047
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:03.720
<v Speaker 7>I'm not doing that again until I can get a

1048
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:09.720
<v Speaker 7>picture of why that, get get a a a framework for.

1049
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:12.319
<v Speaker 1>Why this happened.

1050
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:17.359
<v Speaker 7>Some philosophically, what is going on when this happens, because

1051
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:23.479
<v Speaker 7>now it's it's happened to two people, myself included. But again,

1052
01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:27.920
<v Speaker 7>you you know, you get into those Eastern texts and

1053
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:32.560
<v Speaker 7>it's in the slainest language ever. Right that that you're

1054
01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:37.439
<v Speaker 7>basically wear fingers on a hand, and in certain states

1055
01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:40.399
<v Speaker 7>you can chase it up the arm, up the shoulder

1056
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:44.319
<v Speaker 7>and get right into the head of whatever being you

1057
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:49.840
<v Speaker 7>were just a digit on. So yeah, that that was

1058
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:56.680
<v Speaker 7>the journey, that that forced me into a reckoning. Now

1059
01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:59.279
<v Speaker 7>that's not what I call my spiritual awakening.

1060
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:01.399
<v Speaker 1>That was that was a crisis.

1061
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:07.800
<v Speaker 7>My spiritual awakening experience came much later after I had

1062
01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:14.359
<v Speaker 7>started working the AA system and was doing yoga every day,

1063
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:20.439
<v Speaker 7>and i'd been doing you know, incorporating one limited time.

1064
01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:26.279
<v Speaker 7>So I had incorporated yama, niyama, asauna, and now I'm

1065
01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:29.880
<v Speaker 7>working on pranayama and the pranayama.

1066
01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:33.680
<v Speaker 1>The breathing exercises energized me to.

1067
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.840
<v Speaker 7>Such a degree that I couldn't sleep or I couldn't eat.

1068
01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:38.319
<v Speaker 7>So I just set up and did these the asana

1069
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:45.399
<v Speaker 7>and pranayama for almost three days and something licked like

1070
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:49.640
<v Speaker 7>a damn broke in my chest. And thankfully it wasn't

1071
01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:53.479
<v Speaker 7>like what happened when I became God.

1072
01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:55.560
<v Speaker 1>It was more.

1073
01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:01.159
<v Speaker 7>This state of total ecstasy, see that I didn't know

1074
01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:03.640
<v Speaker 7>what to do with. My only thought was, how can

1075
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:08.359
<v Speaker 7>I be of service to people, and my only solution

1076
01:11:10.159 --> 01:11:13.239
<v Speaker 7>was going I was going to all my friends' houses,

1077
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:18.960
<v Speaker 7>washing their dishes, sweeping their floors, you know, That's all

1078
01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:20.640
<v Speaker 7>I could think to do.

1079
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:25.319
<v Speaker 1>And my friend Dustin, he was like, Danny, man, you

1080
01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:29.079
<v Speaker 1>don't you don't have to do that. Come here, why

1081
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:31.479
<v Speaker 1>don't you come smoke this joint with me, you know,

1082
01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 1>let's just chill out.

1083
01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:36.680
<v Speaker 7>And I'm like, oh, you know, crying in there with

1084
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:41.239
<v Speaker 7>joy and sweeping this floor. Everybody was worried to death

1085
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:45.760
<v Speaker 7>about what is wrong with Danny. That's what my friends

1086
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:46.039
<v Speaker 7>call me.

1087
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:49.600
<v Speaker 6>Danny was a.

1088
01:11:49.720 --> 01:11:54.960
<v Speaker 7>Total you know, and and it and it lasted almost

1089
01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:56.279
<v Speaker 7>as long as it took to get there.

1090
01:11:56.359 --> 01:11:58.239
<v Speaker 1>It lasted right about three days.

1091
01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:03.079
<v Speaker 7>And by that time I had I thought this was permanent,

1092
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:07.079
<v Speaker 7>like this was this was enlightenment, that this would never

1093
01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:09.520
<v Speaker 7>go away.

1094
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't.

1095
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:15.880
<v Speaker 7>Want to say I crashed, but I came down and

1096
01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:18.800
<v Speaker 7>was back at my normal baseline, and I kind of

1097
01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:24.399
<v Speaker 7>mourned that it went away. And it initially led me

1098
01:12:24.439 --> 01:12:29.119
<v Speaker 7>to think that that enlightenment was a sham, that this

1099
01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:33.039
<v Speaker 7>was just a trick of body chemistry. It wouldn't be

1100
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:39.520
<v Speaker 7>until years later that I realized that enlightenment is not

1101
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:46.479
<v Speaker 7>that state. It's attaining that state, coming back down and

1102
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:50.159
<v Speaker 7>allowing what you saw, what you knew in that state

1103
01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:55.239
<v Speaker 7>to inform the way you behave when you're at Walmart

1104
01:12:55.439 --> 01:13:00.000
<v Speaker 7>or when you're in traffic. You know, that's that's in life,

1105
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.600
<v Speaker 7>and that if you are in that state, forever.

1106
01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:05.880
<v Speaker 1>You're I mean, you're useless.

1107
01:13:06.039 --> 01:13:09.680
<v Speaker 7>You're useless to everyone around you.

1108
01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:11.600
<v Speaker 1>You're a buffoon in a way.

1109
01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:16.560
<v Speaker 7>But if you can come back down where you have

1110
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:19.439
<v Speaker 7>to clock in and out from your job, you know,

1111
01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:24.119
<v Speaker 7>clean up your own mess, wash the dishes. But still,

1112
01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:28.920
<v Speaker 7>even if you don't feel it, allow your behavior to

1113
01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:32.960
<v Speaker 7>be dictated by what you saw and knew in those moments.

1114
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:37.640
<v Speaker 7>I think that's closer to what we in the West

1115
01:13:38.920 --> 01:13:41.880
<v Speaker 7>call in an enlightened state or whatever.

1116
01:13:46.119 --> 01:13:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Something I did want to ask you. It's a little

1117
01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:50.199
<v Speaker 2>bit different, you know, a little bit off topic, but

1118
01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:52.159
<v Speaker 2>I think it does go to your you know, definitely

1119
01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:56.119
<v Speaker 2>with your book, and I just wanted your opinion. There's

1120
01:13:56.119 --> 01:13:58.039
<v Speaker 2>been probably like over the last two years, there's been

1121
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:04.119
<v Speaker 2>times I've covered alchemist or ocult ist poets, writers that

1122
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.720
<v Speaker 2>might have been openly into the occult, and even some artists.

1123
01:14:07.720 --> 01:14:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was Jim Morrison specifically, but

1124
01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:12.079
<v Speaker 2>I started noticing there was a lot of them that

1125
01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:15.560
<v Speaker 2>chose at some point to write in hexameter or hexameter,

1126
01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:20.560
<v Speaker 2>however you say it or a pentameter, and you think

1127
01:14:20.640 --> 01:14:24.800
<v Speaker 2>there's something too that besides just a way of writing,

1128
01:14:25.479 --> 01:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>because I'm sure I think you touch on that in

1129
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:28.000
<v Speaker 2>your book.

1130
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:31.800
<v Speaker 1>With dactylic hexameter.

1131
01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:40.560
<v Speaker 7>In the English language, it's really difficult to write in

1132
01:14:40.680 --> 01:14:44.520
<v Speaker 7>daktylic hexameter. The closest thing we have is pentameter, and

1133
01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:48.880
<v Speaker 7>we see people like Ralph Waldo Emerson. You know, they're

1134
01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:54.000
<v Speaker 7>dipping into that. It's the closest analog. But that that's

1135
01:14:54.079 --> 01:15:01.159
<v Speaker 7>the language that the oracles would speaking, you know. So

1136
01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:05.680
<v Speaker 7>if you went to the oracle at Delphi, what they

1137
01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:09.399
<v Speaker 7>gave you back as your oracle was in dactylic caxameter,

1138
01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:14.119
<v Speaker 7>because it was seen as the language of the dactyls.

1139
01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:20.239
<v Speaker 7>These these beings that live underground or in volcanoes, but

1140
01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:27.159
<v Speaker 7>they're they're these divine sometimes craftsmen, but they're crafting for

1141
01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:28.479
<v Speaker 7>you this oracle.

1142
01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Uh that that.

1143
01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:35.840
<v Speaker 7>Usually isn't just encoded and full of symbols, but it

1144
01:15:37.039 --> 01:15:42.479
<v Speaker 7>works on multiple levels, right, So it has for the

1145
01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:48.199
<v Speaker 7>ancient Greeks, it has the potential to create a statement

1146
01:15:48.359 --> 01:15:52.720
<v Speaker 7>that can be true on more than one level, and

1147
01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:57.640
<v Speaker 7>that that's somehow inherent in the form, not just the words.

1148
01:15:58.359 --> 01:15:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1149
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:03.840
<v Speaker 7>And there's probably something to be said for rhythms and cadence,

1150
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:10.439
<v Speaker 7>just like with when we hear rhyming and good alliteration.

1151
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:15.479
<v Speaker 7>It creates a trance like state, and I think dactylic

1152
01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:17.880
<v Speaker 7>hexameter lends itself to that.

1153
01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:20.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't think the.

1154
01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:26.520
<v Speaker 7>Pentameter is as successful, and it certainly doesn't have the

1155
01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:32.079
<v Speaker 7>historical weight behind it that dactylic hexameter does. But yeah, Parmenides,

1156
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:40.640
<v Speaker 7>homer hesiod, Empedocles, Xenophanes, Heraclitis, all these guys, the earliest

1157
01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:50.399
<v Speaker 7>really brilliant philosophical proto scientific thinkers and magicians.

1158
01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Wrote this way, So I spoke this way.

1159
01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:56.800
<v Speaker 7>The Caldane oracles is in dactylic hexameter. Yeah, yeah, I

1160
01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:01.920
<v Speaker 7>definitely think it was the meat of choice.

1161
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I think the first time I came across that was

1162
01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:07.319
<v Speaker 2>when I was looking into Empedocles, and I think because

1163
01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:09.000
<v Speaker 2>of the oracles, I.

1164
01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:14.680
<v Speaker 7>Think sympedicals is so amazing. I don't know if you've

1165
01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:21.000
<v Speaker 7>read Peter Kingsley's book Reality, highly recommend it. It's it's

1166
01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:23.560
<v Speaker 7>a it's a It's in two parts. The first part

1167
01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:28.680
<v Speaker 7>is dealing with Parmenides, the second with Empedocles. But it's

1168
01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:33.960
<v Speaker 7>not just some historians scholarly. Let's talk about what he said.

1169
01:17:36.680 --> 01:17:43.279
<v Speaker 7>Through reading it. He has this uncanny ability to lure

1170
01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:46.079
<v Speaker 7>you into that way of thinking. So by the time

1171
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:51.319
<v Speaker 7>you've closed the book, you really feel like you have

1172
01:17:51.399 --> 01:17:54.560
<v Speaker 7>a kinship with Empedicals with Parmenides.

1173
01:17:55.279 --> 01:17:59.880
<v Speaker 1>It's it's in the top probably the top three most

1174
01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:02.359
<v Speaker 1>important amazing books I've ever read.

1175
01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:06.600
<v Speaker 4>Nice it's funny to be the resistance, and yet also

1176
01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:10.119
<v Speaker 4>love for Parmenides. So like all these other philosophers are

1177
01:18:10.119 --> 01:18:14.159
<v Speaker 4>reading Parmenides and he says motion is impossible, and then

1178
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:16.239
<v Speaker 4>they're all just like, ah, you've got to be kidding me.

1179
01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:18.399
<v Speaker 4>But they loved it so much that they kept it

1180
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:20.119
<v Speaker 4>with them the whole time. And I see that as

1181
01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:23.920
<v Speaker 4>a big influence in the monism of Socrates and all

1182
01:18:23.960 --> 01:18:28.840
<v Speaker 4>the rest of the you know, even Platonic Neoplatonic. And

1183
01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:31.960
<v Speaker 4>he also influenced all of science, right, So this is

1184
01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:33.600
<v Speaker 4>where ontology comes from.

1185
01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:36.720
<v Speaker 6>I was going to say, up to Walter Russell and

1186
01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:39.800
<v Speaker 6>his discussions on how light works, you know, there is

1187
01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:41.359
<v Speaker 6>no motion, you know.

1188
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:46.439
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, there's a great poet who is the spiritual mentor

1189
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:52.680
<v Speaker 7>to are Schweller de Lubitch oscar Vladislavs de Lubitch Below's

1190
01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:58.840
<v Speaker 7>but he had a spiritual awakening that occurred on Christmas

1191
01:18:58.960 --> 01:19:02.720
<v Speaker 7>or Easter or any day or something. But the revelation

1192
01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:07.159
<v Speaker 7>was that that space doesn't exist, that this is all

1193
01:19:07.239 --> 01:19:11.680
<v Speaker 7>one full suit that we exist in. And a lot

1194
01:19:11.720 --> 01:19:14.199
<v Speaker 7>of a lot of philosophers like to pit hair Aplitis

1195
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:18.560
<v Speaker 7>against Parmenides, like they're arguing, you know, because Parmenides he's,

1196
01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:21.399
<v Speaker 7>like you said, he's saying, there is no motion, there

1197
01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:25.560
<v Speaker 7>is no change, there is only being. Non being cannot

1198
01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:29.960
<v Speaker 7>be by definition, if you can think it, it is.

1199
01:19:30.159 --> 01:19:33.520
<v Speaker 7>If it is, you can think it, you know. But Heraclitis,

1200
01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:37.039
<v Speaker 7>he's he comes along and he says, no, you can't

1201
01:19:37.039 --> 01:19:41.600
<v Speaker 7>cross the same river twice because it's not the same river,

1202
01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:42.840
<v Speaker 7>and you're not the same man.

1203
01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:45.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, they're both.

1204
01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:48.439
<v Speaker 7>I don't think it's so much that they're disagreeing as

1205
01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:51.800
<v Speaker 7>they're approaching the same problem from different angles, and we

1206
01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:59.000
<v Speaker 7>might even say one one party Parmenides is speaking from

1207
01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:06.199
<v Speaker 7>a acrocosmic perspective and hair clitis from a microcosmic perspective,

1208
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:12.079
<v Speaker 7>but both are are true, and that they're both experiential

1209
01:20:12.199 --> 01:20:17.239
<v Speaker 7>depending on where your head is in that moment. Yeah,

1210
01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:24.359
<v Speaker 7>I love those guys, the presocratics. Just there's so much

1211
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:34.079
<v Speaker 7>there that is misinterpreted. I think that's dismissed as pseudo knowledge, pseudoscience,

1212
01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:43.520
<v Speaker 7>but when you really dive into that stuff.

1213
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:44.720
<v Speaker 1>You start to see that the world might not be

1214
01:20:44.840 --> 01:20:45.840
<v Speaker 1>what you thought it was.

1215
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:52.840
<v Speaker 4>Describes his journey as being sort of like a drug trip,

1216
01:20:53.079 --> 01:20:55.960
<v Speaker 4>you know. So he's in this palace of the Queen

1217
01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:59.760
<v Speaker 4>of the Knight and it's guarded by you know themis

1218
01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:04.239
<v Speaker 4>or our DeKay right, and then she and right, so

1219
01:21:04.399 --> 01:21:06.439
<v Speaker 4>she opens the door for him, and then all of

1220
01:21:06.479 --> 01:21:09.000
<v Speaker 4>a sudden he gets the secret of the universe, which

1221
01:21:09.079 --> 01:21:12.319
<v Speaker 4>is formal logic. This is the first time it's expressed,

1222
01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:16.479
<v Speaker 4>and you know the uh, you know, formula profile of

1223
01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:19.520
<v Speaker 4>A equals a and then you see that carry on

1224
01:21:19.600 --> 01:21:23.439
<v Speaker 4>to its natural conclusion, which is all motion can't be real.

1225
01:21:23.640 --> 01:21:26.119
<v Speaker 4>It's none of it's none of it's actually happening, only

1226
01:21:26.199 --> 01:21:27.159
<v Speaker 4>being others.

1227
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.560
<v Speaker 7>You'll see a lot of people say that all philosophy

1228
01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:33.960
<v Speaker 7>is a footnote to Plato. Well, Plato is a footnote

1229
01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:37.520
<v Speaker 7>to Parmenides. That's why in the Parmenides he says, we're

1230
01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:42.439
<v Speaker 7>going to have to kill Father Parmenides because we can't

1231
01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:45.600
<v Speaker 7>move in any direction until we can get this ship

1232
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:46.279
<v Speaker 7>out of the way.

1233
01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:50.319
<v Speaker 5>It's so true, and then it's funny, and it's funny

1234
01:21:50.359 --> 01:21:52.880
<v Speaker 5>to understand how then, would it would make sense for

1235
01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:56.760
<v Speaker 5>God to divide itself into multiple things. Seems to be

1236
01:21:56.760 --> 01:21:58.680
<v Speaker 5>because there's one thing, like.

1237
01:22:00.159 --> 01:22:03.399
<v Speaker 7>Thing that's right, and that's that's what I saw, you know.

1238
01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:06.720
<v Speaker 7>That's why I lashed onto that so easily, because it's like, oh,

1239
01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:08.760
<v Speaker 7>I I definitely get that.

1240
01:22:10.079 --> 01:22:13.479
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but I was gonna say, you get these various

1241
01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:17.600
<v Speaker 6>stories within the texts of like hammering the universe into

1242
01:22:17.680 --> 01:22:20.720
<v Speaker 6>existence and the very sparks flying out where you have

1243
01:22:20.840 --> 01:22:24.199
<v Speaker 6>like Indra's net where everything is reflecting off everything else

1244
01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:27.720
<v Speaker 6>and everything is still a part of the whole. These

1245
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:31.680
<v Speaker 6>stories very through, you know, and you can find similar stories,

1246
01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:32.520
<v Speaker 6>I mean throughout.

1247
01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:37.279
<v Speaker 7>It's the closest analogue to something we get from mac

1248
01:22:37.439 --> 01:22:40.439
<v Speaker 7>like somebody like Max Plank, you know, when we're talking

1249
01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:45.279
<v Speaker 7>about that at the smallest level, the oxygen molecules, the

1250
01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:49.079
<v Speaker 7>everything is made up of these subatomic particles. If we

1251
01:22:49.119 --> 01:22:53.079
<v Speaker 7>could see it from that perspective, it would be a

1252
01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:59.560
<v Speaker 7>three dimensional mesh web structure, you know where, with no

1253
01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:03.720
<v Speaker 7>no set operation division among that quanta.

1254
01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1255
01:23:05.439 --> 01:23:09.720
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so he there, Like I said, they were thinking

1256
01:23:11.079 --> 01:23:15.399
<v Speaker 7>far ahead of of what he would think would be

1257
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:18.319
<v Speaker 7>common for an ancient mind.

1258
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm. I love that you guys are so educated

1259
01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:22.239
<v Speaker 1>on this.

1260
01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.479
<v Speaker 6>I never get to just just riff on riff.

1261
01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:29.039
<v Speaker 2>You're getting getting to You're able to nerd out a

1262
01:23:29.079 --> 01:23:34.039
<v Speaker 2>little bit, right, Yeah? I uh, I did. Does anybody

1263
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:36.079
<v Speaker 2>have any more questions? I wanted to ask one more

1264
01:23:36.079 --> 01:23:38.279
<v Speaker 2>at least before we wrap it up, but I don't

1265
01:23:38.319 --> 01:23:39.560
<v Speaker 2>want to take away from anybody.

1266
01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:43.920
<v Speaker 5>I have one, I guess, so I don't know how

1267
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.880
<v Speaker 5>what's the different things that you tried, let's say, but

1268
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:52.800
<v Speaker 5>how did you perceive? For example, I tried I had

1269
01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:56.359
<v Speaker 5>experenses with Iota, with mushrooms, with let's see you with

1270
01:23:56.399 --> 01:23:59.920
<v Speaker 5>some other stuff. And it's it's very intriguing that each

1271
01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:03.479
<v Speaker 5>one of them have a kind of persona, if I

1272
01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:06.359
<v Speaker 5>may call it like that, like they they present themselves

1273
01:24:06.439 --> 01:24:10.239
<v Speaker 5>a little bit differently, even though like you could say, okay,

1274
01:24:10.239 --> 01:24:12.159
<v Speaker 5>the compounds maybe are a little bit different as well,

1275
01:24:12.159 --> 01:24:15.279
<v Speaker 5>but there is a similarity in how they behave. So

1276
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:19.720
<v Speaker 5>even if it's let's say I had different Iaska ceremonies

1277
01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:23.199
<v Speaker 5>with different people, so they were prepared differently, but in

1278
01:24:23.279 --> 01:24:26.359
<v Speaker 5>theory it was always kind of the same type of

1279
01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:29.359
<v Speaker 5>experience the same like mushrooms. I had mushrooms the same

1280
01:24:29.439 --> 01:24:31.600
<v Speaker 5>Brazil or in another place, and so in theory they

1281
01:24:31.640 --> 01:24:34.920
<v Speaker 5>are different, but the experience is super similar. So I

1282
01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:38.000
<v Speaker 5>was wondering if from your perspective you could see that

1283
01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:41.159
<v Speaker 5>as well, and how would you if you ever tried

1284
01:24:41.199 --> 01:24:44.880
<v Speaker 5>to interpret that, like would you connect each of for example,

1285
01:24:44.880 --> 01:24:49.840
<v Speaker 5>the mushrooms. Even the Americans, the I guess Central Americans,

1286
01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:53.399
<v Speaker 5>South South Americans they call it like cult, tuna, accult

1287
01:24:53.479 --> 01:24:53.960
<v Speaker 5>or something.

1288
01:24:53.800 --> 01:24:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Like that, like they have a name.

1289
01:24:56.359 --> 01:24:59.279
<v Speaker 5>Exactly so, or like for Iwaska they call it like

1290
01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:02.359
<v Speaker 5>mother I or whatever. So they kind of already personify it.

1291
01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:04.560
<v Speaker 5>So even if I'm not into that, let'd say I

1292
01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:07.119
<v Speaker 5>wasn't raised in that way. When I perceive it, I

1293
01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:09.920
<v Speaker 5>see the same thing. So it's this idea of there's

1294
01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:13.039
<v Speaker 5>some kind of agrable maybe you want to call it.

1295
01:25:13.079 --> 01:25:15.800
<v Speaker 5>So it's curious, how do you perceive it?

1296
01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, well, I mean I'm.

1297
01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:25.640
<v Speaker 7>Very much I have a magical worldview, and I think

1298
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:30.000
<v Speaker 7>the world is peopled by spirits. I think even the

1299
01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:33.279
<v Speaker 7>simplest things, like a can of soda, you know, it

1300
01:25:35.840 --> 01:25:39.439
<v Speaker 7>participates in mind to the degree that it is capable.

1301
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:43.640
<v Speaker 7>Because we're not in a material, material universe. We're in

1302
01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:51.119
<v Speaker 7>a mental universe like Uxley, and I think even William

1303
01:25:51.199 --> 01:25:56.039
<v Speaker 7>James before in mind at large is what we're in.

1304
01:25:56.199 --> 01:25:59.600
<v Speaker 7>What we interpret as material, but this is a mental

1305
01:25:59.640 --> 01:26:04.720
<v Speaker 7>struct sure, and so everything participates in mind to.

1306
01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:06.319
<v Speaker 1>The degree that it is capable.

1307
01:26:07.119 --> 01:26:15.359
<v Speaker 7>And these entheogenic substances they've been participating in mind much

1308
01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:21.520
<v Speaker 7>longer than we have. There is a spiritual intelligence to them.

1309
01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:26.039
<v Speaker 7>There's a being there. And like you said, if you

1310
01:26:26.199 --> 01:26:30.840
<v Speaker 7>doubt that, take ayahuasca, because I promise you'll encounter a

1311
01:26:31.159 --> 01:26:35.239
<v Speaker 7>female type figure. You take mescaliner praote, you will encounter

1312
01:26:35.359 --> 01:26:40.920
<v Speaker 7>a male like figure. You take Salvia divinorum, it will

1313
01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:46.680
<v Speaker 7>be a female type figure every time. And of course

1314
01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:52.000
<v Speaker 7>I struggled with this, especially with with LSD, you know,

1315
01:26:52.039 --> 01:26:56.439
<v Speaker 7>because the high doses veellacy, the visuals are very cartoon like,

1316
01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:00.199
<v Speaker 7>and I thought, why am I seeing? You know that

1317
01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:03.000
<v Speaker 7>mundane that I watched cartoons when I was a kid,

1318
01:27:03.079 --> 01:27:06.840
<v Speaker 7>so now I'm seeing seeing cartoons. But no, I think

1319
01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:10.239
<v Speaker 7>it has more to do with cartoons exist because just

1320
01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:11.560
<v Speaker 7>like Parmenides said.

1321
01:27:11.520 --> 01:27:13.640
<v Speaker 1>It, if it is, it is.

1322
01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:16.680
<v Speaker 7>And it's always been a part of this and it

1323
01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:20.840
<v Speaker 7>manifests for us in a material realm as something somebody

1324
01:27:20.920 --> 01:27:24.800
<v Speaker 7>drew and moved the pictures real fast. But that that

1325
01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:28.640
<v Speaker 7>doesn't mean that it came from a vacuum, came from nowhere,

1326
01:27:29.039 --> 01:27:36.359
<v Speaker 7>And so it raises the question, well, obviously there are

1327
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:40.039
<v Speaker 7>no cartoons and a square of bladder paper, you know,

1328
01:27:40.119 --> 01:27:45.720
<v Speaker 7>where is this coming from? And I only use that

1329
01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:49.800
<v Speaker 7>as an example to say that, yes, just like with

1330
01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:54.720
<v Speaker 7>a sacred location, a haunted house as people would like

1331
01:27:54.800 --> 01:28:01.239
<v Speaker 7>to call it, but there are spiritus Loki are geniuses

1332
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:05.439
<v Speaker 7>that exist in certain locations, and there are geniuses that

1333
01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:10.520
<v Speaker 7>exist in certain substances, and when we begin to approach

1334
01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:15.039
<v Speaker 7>them that way, that's where we really enter magical territory.

1335
01:28:15.079 --> 01:28:17.960
<v Speaker 7>With these substances, you can trip on them, you know,

1336
01:28:18.039 --> 01:28:20.800
<v Speaker 7>all you want to, but the moment you meet it

1337
01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:26.760
<v Speaker 7>as an entity, things change, the communication takes place. It's

1338
01:28:26.760 --> 01:28:30.239
<v Speaker 7>like with dreaming, right, you know, when you wake up

1339
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:33.359
<v Speaker 7>in a spiritual awakening, it's almost like waking up and

1340
01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:36.520
<v Speaker 7>becoming lucid in a dream, because you realize in a

1341
01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:40.520
<v Speaker 7>dream it doesn't matter who you're dreaming about, what the

1342
01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:45.239
<v Speaker 7>room is, they're all you. From a psychological perspective, I'm

1343
01:28:45.279 --> 01:28:48.199
<v Speaker 7>playing the role of each person here, I'm playing the

1344
01:28:48.279 --> 01:28:51.720
<v Speaker 7>role of the room I'm in, and that's what that's

1345
01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:56.920
<v Speaker 7>waking up while you're awake as the effect of. But

1346
01:28:58.479 --> 01:29:02.840
<v Speaker 7>if you're familiar with work, especially James Hillman, you know,

1347
01:29:04.520 --> 01:29:08.119
<v Speaker 7>he says, the worst thing you can do is look

1348
01:29:08.159 --> 01:29:11.079
<v Speaker 7>at a dream entity and say what do you represent?

1349
01:29:12.399 --> 01:29:17.399
<v Speaker 7>I mean, if if you met a new person and

1350
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:21.119
<v Speaker 7>instead of them asking you your name, they said what

1351
01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:23.680
<v Speaker 7>does he? What do you represent? They don't even ask you,

1352
01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:28.520
<v Speaker 7>They ask themselves because you're non existent, what does he represent?

1353
01:29:29.079 --> 01:29:30.720
<v Speaker 1>What is this? You know?

1354
01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:36.319
<v Speaker 7>It's offensive and it's offensive to dream characters as much

1355
01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:40.239
<v Speaker 7>as it's offensive to the spirits to occupy these plants.

1356
01:29:40.880 --> 01:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, so when when.

1357
01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:46.880
<v Speaker 7>They appear differently it's because they are differently. They have

1358
01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:51.319
<v Speaker 7>their own personalities and the moment you approached them that

1359
01:29:51.359 --> 01:29:54.760
<v Speaker 7>way instead of a means to an end, that they

1360
01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:58.199
<v Speaker 7>are the end in themselves. I'm I'm here because I

1361
01:29:58.359 --> 01:30:02.640
<v Speaker 7>want to commune with you. You know more than I do

1362
01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:05.479
<v Speaker 7>about some things. And guess what, I got a nervous

1363
01:30:05.479 --> 01:30:10.319
<v Speaker 7>system and opposable thumbs. You can use those if you want.

1364
01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:13.840
<v Speaker 7>If I can get a little bit of access to

1365
01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:18.159
<v Speaker 7>some of the ancient mind you have, that's my approach.

1366
01:30:18.439 --> 01:30:22.680
<v Speaker 7>So yeah, I definitely think as new age as I

1367
01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:26.760
<v Speaker 7>might come off. Man, there are spirits in those things.

1368
01:30:27.039 --> 01:30:32.359
<v Speaker 7>There is intelligence in nature, and its far surpasses anything

1369
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:40.600
<v Speaker 7>mankind has deduced over the however, many millennia we've been

1370
01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:43.920
<v Speaker 7>running around on this planet.

1371
01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:50.520
<v Speaker 3>There is a theory that the origination or the origin

1372
01:30:50.680 --> 01:30:56.399
<v Speaker 3>of like magical practices, especially dharma or tonto specifically Tontra

1373
01:30:56.479 --> 01:31:00.960
<v Speaker 3>dharma originated in the Yakture cults. So it sounds great

1374
01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:04.199
<v Speaker 3>equivalent of a genius loki basically like a nature fairy

1375
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:08.239
<v Speaker 3>or a nature spirit of like a particular place tree plant.

1376
01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:14.079
<v Speaker 3>But they're often seen as very ferocious, and so what

1377
01:31:14.119 --> 01:31:16.640
<v Speaker 3>we would say as a Buddhist is that they even

1378
01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:20.039
<v Speaker 3>as they appear, it's just existence appearance. So if you

1379
01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:23.000
<v Speaker 3>push through that in your own consciousness, then you can

1380
01:31:23.039 --> 01:31:25.840
<v Speaker 3>see what the core of what they really are, which

1381
01:31:25.880 --> 01:31:29.680
<v Speaker 3>is also sort of a reflection of your own mind

1382
01:31:30.039 --> 01:31:32.880
<v Speaker 3>often or consciousness, not necessarily. I'm not saying it's one

1383
01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:34.920
<v Speaker 3>hundred percent that there are one hundred yees.

1384
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:40.880
<v Speaker 7>Not psychological mind, but the mind, the primarial.

1385
01:31:40.399 --> 01:31:42.960
<v Speaker 3>Like like rigpa is what we would call it, or

1386
01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:46.920
<v Speaker 3>like you know, like that diamond thunder is like Zeus like,

1387
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:49.640
<v Speaker 3>but it's not really it's more yosodic to forrat like

1388
01:31:49.960 --> 01:31:51.479
<v Speaker 3>in a dialectical relationship.

1389
01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:56.399
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, yeah, and you And from that perspective, you know,

1390
01:31:56.439 --> 01:31:59.880
<v Speaker 7>there are two valid approaches to this. There's an amusing

1391
01:31:59.880 --> 01:32:04.159
<v Speaker 7>the terms in the sense that anthropologists and historians of

1392
01:32:04.199 --> 01:32:08.399
<v Speaker 7>religion use them. There's the magical approach. There's the mystical approach.

1393
01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:12.640
<v Speaker 7>The magical approach is a ladder, and each rung has

1394
01:32:12.760 --> 01:32:16.199
<v Speaker 7>different types of beings on them. They each are objective,

1395
01:32:16.319 --> 01:32:17.760
<v Speaker 7>have different things they can.

1396
01:32:17.640 --> 01:32:20.079
<v Speaker 1>Tell you, do with you, do for you.

1397
01:32:20.920 --> 01:32:25.079
<v Speaker 7>The mystical approach is everything between me and the top

1398
01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:30.640
<v Speaker 7>of that ladder is an illusion. Push passet if you

1399
01:32:30.680 --> 01:32:33.399
<v Speaker 7>see the Buddha on the road, kill him, you know

1400
01:32:33.439 --> 01:32:34.439
<v Speaker 7>that kind of thinking.

1401
01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:37.279
<v Speaker 1>The goal for me is just to get to the

1402
01:32:37.319 --> 01:32:42.199
<v Speaker 1>top the clear light. The void of nothingness.

1403
01:32:42.479 --> 01:32:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, we would say aving say we would say emptiness,

1404
01:32:45.920 --> 01:32:47.600
<v Speaker 3>it would be luminousness and masselessness.

1405
01:32:47.640 --> 01:32:48.520
<v Speaker 1>It's non void.

1406
01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:52.159
<v Speaker 3>Void would be at fifth consciousness, and we would actually

1407
01:32:52.159 --> 01:32:53.640
<v Speaker 3>want to go a little higher. We would want to

1408
01:32:53.680 --> 01:32:56.000
<v Speaker 3>go together, if you want to use a cabalistic sort

1409
01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:56.640
<v Speaker 3>of example.

1410
01:32:57.079 --> 01:32:58.199
<v Speaker 1>But it's not my void.

1411
01:32:58.560 --> 01:33:03.560
<v Speaker 7>But it's no thingness, as you know, unless you're saying

1412
01:33:03.560 --> 01:33:09.159
<v Speaker 7>that it's not apathetic, that it isn't devoid of it's

1413
01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:12.560
<v Speaker 7>not such that anything you say about it would be

1414
01:33:12.680 --> 01:33:15.960
<v Speaker 7>wrong because it would be limiting it to that. That's

1415
01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:20.199
<v Speaker 7>what I'm That's what I'm trying to explain. But I'm

1416
01:33:20.199 --> 01:33:22.600
<v Speaker 7>not a Buddhist, so I know, I totally get it.

1417
01:33:22.640 --> 01:33:23.239
<v Speaker 1>I just the.

1418
01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:28.119
<v Speaker 7>Language would is probably going to ruffle your feathers if

1419
01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:28.520
<v Speaker 7>you are a.

1420
01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Buddhist, doesn't you know?

1421
01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:34.479
<v Speaker 3>It just is I just enjoy the engagement of like

1422
01:33:34.760 --> 01:33:39.560
<v Speaker 3>the difference of like perspective or view, right, it's very interesting.

1423
01:33:40.319 --> 01:33:42.399
<v Speaker 7>But I think that I do think they're both valid.

1424
01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:47.319
<v Speaker 7>If you know the mystical approach. I don't care what

1425
01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:49.239
<v Speaker 7>angel stands between.

1426
01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:50.319
<v Speaker 1>Me and the top of the ladder.

1427
01:33:50.600 --> 01:33:54.439
<v Speaker 7>The magical approaches, Well, today I need to access that

1428
01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:58.359
<v Speaker 7>part of the ladder because I'd like to accomplish X.

1429
01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:03.279
<v Speaker 7>And I think that's the difference. But again, with these substances,

1430
01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:07.960
<v Speaker 7>I don't think it's always safe to use them as

1431
01:34:07.960 --> 01:34:11.319
<v Speaker 7>a means to an end. They're the end in themselves.

1432
01:34:11.720 --> 01:34:15.800
<v Speaker 7>So you wouldn't say I need to access X. Wrong,

1433
01:34:16.079 --> 01:34:21.279
<v Speaker 7>so I'm going to utilize X substance. Uh, that's where

1434
01:34:21.319 --> 01:34:23.840
<v Speaker 7>I think you could get into trouble because you're you're

1435
01:34:24.039 --> 01:34:25.680
<v Speaker 7>objectifying a subject.

1436
01:34:27.319 --> 01:34:28.600
<v Speaker 1>That's what I say. What I was.

1437
01:34:28.960 --> 01:34:34.359
<v Speaker 6>Meaning now speaking of ejectifying a subject this antidotally. I

1438
01:34:34.399 --> 01:34:36.840
<v Speaker 6>have a friend, this is years ago, that he used

1439
01:34:36.880 --> 01:34:41.800
<v Speaker 6>to sell salvia liven normum on tour and he was

1440
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:45.640
<v Speaker 6>a heavy user of it. And when he started selling

1441
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:50.479
<v Speaker 6>it heavily, he had an entity come to him whenever

1442
01:34:50.520 --> 01:34:53.319
<v Speaker 6>he would use salvia, and it was a male entity

1443
01:34:54.079 --> 01:34:55.880
<v Speaker 6>that was he said it kind of looked like a

1444
01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:59.399
<v Speaker 6>Mayan warrior that had a light bar, and every time

1445
01:34:59.439 --> 01:35:01.640
<v Speaker 6>he would use the substance when he was selling it,

1446
01:35:01.840 --> 01:35:04.479
<v Speaker 6>when he went into that state he had the light

1447
01:35:04.520 --> 01:35:07.479
<v Speaker 6>bar at his neck and the warrior was just staring

1448
01:35:07.560 --> 01:35:09.920
<v Speaker 6>into his eyes and he said he had to quit

1449
01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:10.399
<v Speaker 6>selling it.

1450
01:35:11.039 --> 01:35:15.600
<v Speaker 7>So I had to say, that's almost identical, but with

1451
01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:20.600
<v Speaker 7>mushrooms and sell the mushrooms as a kid, and had

1452
01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:22.920
<v Speaker 7>it wasn't I don't know what it was because it

1453
01:35:22.960 --> 01:35:26.199
<v Speaker 7>was so large, but a giant foot would come down

1454
01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:31.720
<v Speaker 7>and threatened to squash me. And it was as real

1455
01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:36.960
<v Speaker 7>as real, absolutely terrifying. But yeah, I never sold another

1456
01:35:37.039 --> 01:35:37.880
<v Speaker 7>mushroom after that.

1457
01:35:38.079 --> 01:35:38.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1458
01:35:39.720 --> 01:35:44.399
<v Speaker 4>Wow, So I had a question about Martinism. Now I'm

1459
01:35:44.439 --> 01:35:49.560
<v Speaker 4>seeing that there's a Martinistic influence in Voodoo and and Mormonism.

1460
01:35:50.439 --> 01:35:54.159
<v Speaker 4>Is there what got you into Martinism? And I know

1461
01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:57.039
<v Speaker 4>that it has something to do with the solemonic magic

1462
01:35:57.159 --> 01:35:59.800
<v Speaker 4>and how they use some of those keys as well.

1463
01:36:00.079 --> 01:36:03.159
<v Speaker 1>So I was just wondering if you could expand on that.

1464
01:36:03.920 --> 01:36:06.920
<v Speaker 7>Well, my interest in Martinism came with my interest in theurgy.

1465
01:36:07.520 --> 01:36:13.439
<v Speaker 7>Martinism emerged out of the first high degree system of

1466
01:36:13.479 --> 01:36:17.159
<v Speaker 7>masonry called the Elucohen, which was founded by a my

1467
01:36:17.279 --> 01:36:24.399
<v Speaker 7>named Martinez de Pascali, and it's a theurgic system that

1468
01:36:24.640 --> 01:36:29.520
<v Speaker 7>also works. It's kind of a Brammelin like in that

1469
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:34.439
<v Speaker 7>it also works with lower spirits. But the point being

1470
01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:39.600
<v Speaker 7>if you're aligned with your damon, your holy guardian angel,

1471
01:36:40.520 --> 01:36:45.039
<v Speaker 7>and they align with you, then you're kind of extending

1472
01:36:46.359 --> 01:36:50.119
<v Speaker 7>stalvation grace into the lower realms of the world.

1473
01:36:50.760 --> 01:36:51.000
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1474
01:36:51.479 --> 01:36:55.520
<v Speaker 7>That's what first interested me about it, and and also

1475
01:36:55.640 --> 01:36:59.560
<v Speaker 7>their their open use of hallucin engines, which a lot

1476
01:36:59.600 --> 01:37:04.680
<v Speaker 7>of Martin won't admit today, but they were using a

1477
01:37:04.760 --> 01:37:08.560
<v Speaker 7>number of different psychedelics in the initiation rituals of the

1478
01:37:08.560 --> 01:37:15.479
<v Speaker 7>Eluco And now after the Elucohen officially closed, Louis Claude

1479
01:37:15.479 --> 01:37:19.640
<v Speaker 7>de Saint Martin had a circle of friends around him

1480
01:37:19.680 --> 01:37:22.760
<v Speaker 7>that he would continue teaching what he called the way

1481
01:37:22.800 --> 01:37:26.319
<v Speaker 7>of the Heart. So it's no longer ritualistic, no longer theurgic.

1482
01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:31.560
<v Speaker 7>It's more like he's doing a Potinus kind of thing.

1483
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:39.159
<v Speaker 7>And two or three of his students or students or

1484
01:37:39.159 --> 01:37:43.960
<v Speaker 7>students eventually came together and created the Bartonist order, which

1485
01:37:44.039 --> 01:37:47.399
<v Speaker 7>is a three degree system similar to masonry, but with

1486
01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:55.479
<v Speaker 7>more Rosicrucian elements present. And once you become a Martinist,

1487
01:37:55.479 --> 01:37:59.840
<v Speaker 7>a third degree Martinist elucoen opens to you, so you

1488
01:37:59.840 --> 01:38:05.239
<v Speaker 7>can join a luko and get access to some of

1489
01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:12.199
<v Speaker 7>these theregic protocols that aren't written about openly, aren't discussed.

1490
01:38:12.640 --> 01:38:15.960
<v Speaker 7>Of course, it's not late Antique theorgy, but you're seeing

1491
01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:20.680
<v Speaker 7>how it developed post grimoire tradition, and that that's what

1492
01:38:20.840 --> 01:38:24.720
<v Speaker 7>interested me mainly, was was trying to understand how they're

1493
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:29.920
<v Speaker 7>fitting things like the Key of Solomon, you know, different

1494
01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:33.520
<v Speaker 7>grimoires into that model. Because you look in the Lemegaton,

1495
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:36.039
<v Speaker 7>look in the lesser key, you know, you'll see it

1496
01:38:36.159 --> 01:38:40.520
<v Speaker 7>separated into goetic magic and then theurgy. The goetic is

1497
01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:44.600
<v Speaker 7>dealing with demons. Theorgy is dealing with angels. A late

1498
01:38:44.640 --> 01:38:49.199
<v Speaker 7>antique theorgist would say, no, that's not theorgy. That's dealing

1499
01:38:49.199 --> 01:38:53.079
<v Speaker 7>with angels. That's that's working with demons, has nothing to

1500
01:38:53.119 --> 01:38:55.640
<v Speaker 7>do with uniting with a god, you know.

1501
01:38:56.079 --> 01:38:57.840
<v Speaker 1>So I was mainly interested in.

1502
01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:06.279
<v Speaker 7>It evolved through through the years, especially after the emergence

1503
01:39:06.319 --> 01:39:07.840
<v Speaker 7>of the European grew more tradition.

1504
01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, really, thank you? Does anybody else have any

1505
01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:19.720
<v Speaker 2>more questions? Before I ask him something else? I guess

1506
01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:21.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of like to wrap it up, I did want

1507
01:39:21.560 --> 01:39:23.479
<v Speaker 2>to say, like I didn't want to ask I guess

1508
01:39:23.560 --> 01:39:26.520
<v Speaker 2>like the average person on the street, I guess came

1509
01:39:26.600 --> 01:39:28.399
<v Speaker 2>up to you and said, like, you know, why does

1510
01:39:28.520 --> 01:39:30.760
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff that we were just talking about, the oracles,

1511
01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Neil Clayton is you know, Homer and all that stuff?

1512
01:39:34.680 --> 01:39:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Why in the orgy? Why does any of that matter

1513
01:39:37.279 --> 01:39:40.920
<v Speaker 2>today in twenty twenty five, Like, what's the point? What

1514
01:39:40.960 --> 01:39:43.520
<v Speaker 2>would you tell somebody like, yes.

1515
01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:51.119
<v Speaker 7>Two things, I would say, It doesn't matter. You're perfect

1516
01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:53.920
<v Speaker 7>just as you are, whether you want to or not.

1517
01:39:54.039 --> 01:39:59.520
<v Speaker 7>You're still at one with God, at one with the Gods.

1518
01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:03.520
<v Speaker 7>Every thing is as it should be. But at the

1519
01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:06.439
<v Speaker 7>same time, we tend to get in our way. I

1520
01:40:06.439 --> 01:40:08.760
<v Speaker 7>think things should be one way.

1521
01:40:10.279 --> 01:40:12.640
<v Speaker 1>We see the world as we wish it were, not

1522
01:40:12.760 --> 01:40:13.439
<v Speaker 1>as it is.

1523
01:40:14.279 --> 01:40:20.520
<v Speaker 7>And I think that from that perspective, the Orgy can offer.

1524
01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:24.800
<v Speaker 1>A lot of solace, a lot.

1525
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:31.399
<v Speaker 7>Solace in terms of how we feel when we butt

1526
01:40:31.520 --> 01:40:35.880
<v Speaker 7>up against the world, because it does imbue it with

1527
01:40:37.880 --> 01:40:42.359
<v Speaker 7>a meaning, with a sanctity that is very hard to

1528
01:40:42.439 --> 01:40:45.199
<v Speaker 7>find even in the world religions.

1529
01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:46.760
<v Speaker 1>It's just.

1530
01:40:48.399 --> 01:40:56.640
<v Speaker 7>It's just hard today to go outside and really feel

1531
01:40:57.000 --> 01:40:59.840
<v Speaker 7>the miracle of being.

1532
01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh of everything.

1533
01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:05.920
<v Speaker 7>And I think that's the biggest thing I've taken away

1534
01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:10.239
<v Speaker 7>from theogy is participating in the miracle.

1535
01:41:11.359 --> 01:41:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Foraging.

1536
01:41:12.600 --> 01:41:14.840
<v Speaker 7>You know, when you're foraging and I'm going out, I'm

1537
01:41:14.880 --> 01:41:21.439
<v Speaker 7>finding heliotrope, I'm participating in helios and and it just

1538
01:41:21.680 --> 01:41:24.640
<v Speaker 7>changes the entire dynamic of me.

1539
01:41:24.680 --> 01:41:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Against the world. So that that's probably the.

1540
01:41:30.640 --> 01:41:36.439
<v Speaker 7>As kind of puzzling as it probably sounds to some listeners.

1541
01:41:36.680 --> 01:41:39.159
<v Speaker 7>That's that's my my explanation.

1542
01:41:40.319 --> 01:41:42.359
<v Speaker 1>I like that very well said.

1543
01:41:43.520 --> 01:41:45.479
<v Speaker 2>I think, I mean not to speak for Jen, but

1544
01:41:45.520 --> 01:41:47.439
<v Speaker 2>I think like me and him have even discussed it

1545
01:41:48.680 --> 01:41:52.760
<v Speaker 2>for myself. You know, I mentioned before with theogy when

1546
01:41:52.760 --> 01:41:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I have practiced that before in my past, that is

1547
01:41:55.000 --> 01:41:57.079
<v Speaker 2>some of the times when I've actually really felt some

1548
01:41:57.119 --> 01:42:01.039
<v Speaker 2>sort of like emotional effect, some sort of deep feeling.

1549
01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:04.199
<v Speaker 2>I think Jenna's even said that you've been into like

1550
01:42:04.279 --> 01:42:06.960
<v Speaker 2>theatical stuff. Uh.

1551
01:42:07.039 --> 01:42:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, blocks it can be very theoretic.

1552
01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:14.399
<v Speaker 3>Yes, contra is definitely thurgical, and I would say we

1553
01:42:14.439 --> 01:42:16.800
<v Speaker 3>do apply our will at specific points, but we would

1554
01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.239
<v Speaker 3>be mindful of the karmic implication of doing so with

1555
01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:23.680
<v Speaker 3>certain practices for sure. But yeah, I agree with you Nick,

1556
01:42:23.680 --> 01:42:25.800
<v Speaker 3>it's it's it can be very we would say it's

1557
01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:29.760
<v Speaker 3>un blocking the energy centers or the channels, so sometimes

1558
01:42:29.760 --> 01:42:32.479
<v Speaker 3>I get heart center. Often you will find like people

1559
01:42:32.479 --> 01:42:36.479
<v Speaker 3>will cry after Sodna. It's very common. So yeah, absolutely

1560
01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:39.680
<v Speaker 3>there's many and there's a you can feel anger, sometimes

1561
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:44.640
<v Speaker 3>you can feel lost, sometimes you can feel you know different.

1562
01:42:44.680 --> 01:42:46.600
<v Speaker 3>It depends on what practice and what text you're doing.

1563
01:42:46.600 --> 01:42:51.319
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, you definitely can unblown buzz or those cliches

1564
01:42:51.479 --> 01:42:54.760
<v Speaker 3>or those skandas, those aggregates of mind that would prevent

1565
01:42:54.880 --> 01:42:57.640
<v Speaker 3>you from sort of reaching primordial consciousness for sure.

1566
01:42:58.640 --> 01:42:59.000
<v Speaker 1>So much.

1567
01:42:59.319 --> 01:43:04.840
<v Speaker 7>There's there's a great book that might interest you by

1568
01:43:04.880 --> 01:43:09.720
<v Speaker 7>a friend of mine named Gregory Shaw. He wrote a

1569
01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:14.359
<v Speaker 7>book called His first book was Theogy and the Soul, which.

1570
01:43:14.279 --> 01:43:16.359
<v Speaker 1>Was a really a deep dive into Iamblicus.

1571
01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:21.560
<v Speaker 7>But his most recent book is Hellenistic Tantra, and he's

1572
01:43:21.960 --> 01:43:24.520
<v Speaker 7>comparing Iamblicus's program to.

1573
01:43:27.960 --> 01:43:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Abin A Gupta to.

1574
01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:38.560
<v Speaker 7>The early Kaula Tantra, particularly Kashmir Tantra Southeast Asia. But

1575
01:43:39.439 --> 01:43:43.760
<v Speaker 7>lots of parallels, especially in the perception of the body

1576
01:43:44.840 --> 01:43:49.399
<v Speaker 7>as as almost like body as soul and vice versa.

1577
01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:52.800
<v Speaker 7>But that might be something jen that that you would

1578
01:43:52.840 --> 01:43:53.720
<v Speaker 7>find fascinating.

1579
01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:56.479
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, ped I'll definitely I've seen it on ig

1580
01:43:56.760 --> 01:43:59.960
<v Speaker 3>people like I Baker and other people have like interviewed him.

1581
01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:02.039
<v Speaker 3>I just haven't listened to them or bought the book,

1582
01:44:02.079 --> 01:44:03.000
<v Speaker 3>but I will definitely do that.

1583
01:44:03.079 --> 01:44:06.199
<v Speaker 1>Thank you a little bit of a pretty good too.

1584
01:44:06.279 --> 01:44:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, actually I got I coming on and I think

1585
01:44:08.239 --> 01:44:08.720
<v Speaker 2>of a week.

1586
01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Or so nice.

1587
01:44:11.079 --> 01:44:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh p D, thank you so much. Before I

1588
01:44:13.520 --> 01:44:16.079
<v Speaker 2>let you plug everything and let everybody know whether where

1589
01:44:16.079 --> 01:44:17.479
<v Speaker 2>they can find you stuff. Let me just have the

1590
01:44:17.520 --> 01:44:20.520
<v Speaker 2>other people remind everybody where they can find them, jin

1591
01:44:20.680 --> 01:44:22.359
<v Speaker 2>real quick, let everybody know where they can find all

1592
01:44:22.399 --> 01:44:23.119
<v Speaker 2>your amazing stuff.

1593
01:44:23.439 --> 01:44:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, so thank you so much.

1594
01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:24.760
<v Speaker 2>PD.

1595
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:27.359
<v Speaker 3>I know it's a little discursive, but I know you're

1596
01:44:27.479 --> 01:44:29.520
<v Speaker 3>you're so smart and you can you can take it.

1597
01:44:29.920 --> 01:44:32.319
<v Speaker 3>And I really enjoyed it. And thank you so much

1598
01:44:32.359 --> 01:44:35.359
<v Speaker 3>for teaching me about uh, you know, the more platonic

1599
01:44:35.399 --> 01:44:37.640
<v Speaker 3>and neo platonic system, which I'm not that familiar with

1600
01:44:37.720 --> 01:44:40.680
<v Speaker 3>to be honest, so it was definitely a learning episode

1601
01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:42.920
<v Speaker 3>for me. And thank you of course to all the

1602
01:44:42.960 --> 01:44:46.760
<v Speaker 3>O their co hosts, especially to uh Nick and Matt Murra,

1603
01:44:46.880 --> 01:44:48.640
<v Speaker 3>who is my co host on The Gray Lodge, which

1604
01:44:48.680 --> 01:44:52.000
<v Speaker 3>is our co host like Roundtable, we talked about speculative gnosissism,

1605
01:44:52.239 --> 01:44:54.800
<v Speaker 3>every Friday night and check us out on YouTube and

1606
01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:57.159
<v Speaker 3>at the True Gray Lodge dot com, t r v

1607
01:44:57.319 --> 01:45:01.439
<v Speaker 3>E True Gray Lodge dot com and on Threshold Saints

1608
01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:04.600
<v Speaker 3>if you want to follow me. And I'm interviewing the

1609
01:45:05.239 --> 01:45:08.520
<v Speaker 3>alt lit author Andrew Thompson and his new book Crowbar,

1610
01:45:08.960 --> 01:45:12.000
<v Speaker 3>so that'll be dropping really soon. It's supposedly the book

1611
01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:14.600
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty five, so it's really lucky to be

1612
01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:17.840
<v Speaker 3>able to interview him. So thank you guys so much, appreciate.

1613
01:45:17.399 --> 01:45:19.880
<v Speaker 2>It, of course, No, thank you for making me man

1614
01:45:20.039 --> 01:45:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and Headless Giant what is going on with?

1615
01:45:23.279 --> 01:45:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

1616
01:45:23.720 --> 01:45:26.600
<v Speaker 4>You can find me on x and on Instagram at

1617
01:45:26.640 --> 01:45:30.560
<v Speaker 4>the Headless Giant, and you can follow my YouTube channel

1618
01:45:30.640 --> 01:45:32.399
<v Speaker 4>at the Headless Giant. If you have any sort of

1619
01:45:32.439 --> 01:45:36.159
<v Speaker 4>mystical experiences, any kind of a drug experience having to

1620
01:45:36.239 --> 01:45:39.680
<v Speaker 4>do with these entities or UFOs or anything, you can

1621
01:45:39.720 --> 01:45:43.119
<v Speaker 4>send it to. Yeah, you can go with the Headless

1622
01:45:43.119 --> 01:45:45.479
<v Speaker 4>Giant podcast at gmail dot com and we will read

1623
01:45:45.520 --> 01:45:48.560
<v Speaker 4>those on Thursdays and Nick will give you some stickers,

1624
01:45:48.600 --> 01:45:50.760
<v Speaker 4>so definitely check that out us.

1625
01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Out as well.

1626
01:45:52.399 --> 01:45:55.199
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Thank you very much sir and Matt my man

1627
01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:56.079
<v Speaker 2>what's going on?

1628
01:45:56.119 --> 01:46:01.159
<v Speaker 5>But thank you again thanks so much for calling me here, Nick,

1629
01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:04.199
<v Speaker 5>and nice to meet you all. Was a very nice episode.

1630
01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:08.039
<v Speaker 5>Thanks PD for sharing all the stuff. It's cool to

1631
01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:10.960
<v Speaker 5>see other people practice and get to the same places.

1632
01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:12.760
<v Speaker 6>And you know, even if.

1633
01:46:14.159 --> 01:46:16.279
<v Speaker 5>As obviously we're not going to share every time one

1634
01:46:16.359 --> 01:46:18.439
<v Speaker 5>hundred percent of the same thing, it's cool to understand

1635
01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:21.720
<v Speaker 5>how others thinking so and it was very fascinating stuff.

1636
01:46:22.359 --> 01:46:23.680
<v Speaker 1>So again, thanks all for that.

1637
01:46:23.840 --> 01:46:26.399
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, you guys can find me as it's here

1638
01:46:26.600 --> 01:46:31.600
<v Speaker 5>at Medmore nineteen everywhere to their YouTube, Instagram and TikTok anyplace.

1639
01:46:31.760 --> 01:46:35.039
<v Speaker 5>There's also my website that's Kabbala dot com k.

1640
01:46:35.239 --> 01:46:38.239
<v Speaker 1>A A B A l a h dot com.

1641
01:46:38.600 --> 01:46:41.239
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, there's an episode here in occult prejacts from

1642
01:46:41.239 --> 01:46:44.319
<v Speaker 5>this like very recent you guys can check it out

1643
01:46:44.319 --> 01:46:44.600
<v Speaker 5>as well.

1644
01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:45.279
<v Speaker 1>It was very nice.

1645
01:46:45.439 --> 01:46:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it is still up on the lives go check

1646
01:46:47.800 --> 01:46:51.640
<v Speaker 2>that out. And my man Robbie Marks, thank you so

1647
01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:52.600
<v Speaker 2>much for making it today.

1648
01:46:52.600 --> 01:46:55.119
<v Speaker 6>Really yeah, I'm glad I could make it. Thanks for

1649
01:46:55.159 --> 01:46:57.760
<v Speaker 6>having me on and it's great to see everybody. Great

1650
01:46:57.800 --> 01:47:01.560
<v Speaker 6>to meet the nuclear PD. Excellent conversation. This is the

1651
01:47:01.720 --> 01:47:06.079
<v Speaker 6>type of information that I dwell within and kind of

1652
01:47:06.199 --> 01:47:10.720
<v Speaker 6>have kind of absorbed, you know, since like you were saying,

1653
01:47:10.760 --> 01:47:13.920
<v Speaker 6>since I was in my early teens, and it's just

1654
01:47:14.520 --> 01:47:17.239
<v Speaker 6>it's a great conversation. So thank you so much for that.

1655
01:47:17.520 --> 01:47:19.720
<v Speaker 6>And if anybody wants to check out my stuff, you

1656
01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:22.279
<v Speaker 6>can go and check my link tree which is link

1657
01:47:22.359 --> 01:47:26.359
<v Speaker 6>tree r M r X and that'll pull up my artwork,

1658
01:47:26.720 --> 01:47:31.359
<v Speaker 6>my metamind cast, podcast, all my miscellany social media any

1659
01:47:31.399 --> 01:47:33.239
<v Speaker 6>way you want to connect with me is there. And

1660
01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:35.159
<v Speaker 6>thanks again Nick, of.

1661
01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:38.399
<v Speaker 2>Course, thank you for making it. And finally, PD, I

1662
01:47:38.479 --> 01:47:40.279
<v Speaker 2>really want to say thank you for coming on. I

1663
01:47:40.359 --> 01:47:42.039
<v Speaker 2>know it took a while, but it was well well

1664
01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:44.840
<v Speaker 2>worth the wait. I think the other rejects on the

1665
01:47:44.880 --> 01:47:46.640
<v Speaker 2>show can even say probably within the last six months,

1666
01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:48.920
<v Speaker 2>I've gotten very interested in neoplatonism and some of the

1667
01:47:48.960 --> 01:47:51.920
<v Speaker 2>oldest stuff, so this show was really really familiar. Like

1668
01:47:52.039 --> 01:47:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I truly love the show. So thank you very much

1669
01:47:55.000 --> 01:47:57.600
<v Speaker 2>for coming on, man, and please let everybody know where

1670
01:47:57.640 --> 01:47:58.479
<v Speaker 2>they can find you stuff.

1671
01:48:00.279 --> 01:48:04.239
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I've had a blast. I mean, like I said,

1672
01:48:04.279 --> 01:48:07.960
<v Speaker 7>it's it's very rare that I get to to just

1673
01:48:08.079 --> 01:48:10.680
<v Speaker 7>kind of riff on this stuff. Usually I'm having to

1674
01:48:10.760 --> 01:48:14.880
<v Speaker 7>reinvent the wheel and and and you guys are already rolling.

1675
01:48:15.079 --> 01:48:17.960
<v Speaker 1>So this is this has been a treat for me.

1676
01:48:19.960 --> 01:48:24.000
<v Speaker 7>As far as you know, we're finding Facebook, Instagram X.

1677
01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:27.600
<v Speaker 7>I usually just post what I'm researching and you can

1678
01:48:27.680 --> 01:48:28.239
<v Speaker 7>find me on.

1679
01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Under p. D.

1680
01:48:30.680 --> 01:48:36.039
<v Speaker 7>Newman on all those platforms. Again, my books all major booksellers,

1681
01:48:38.159 --> 01:48:41.119
<v Speaker 7>and I'm working on three or four books right now,

1682
01:48:41.239 --> 01:48:45.199
<v Speaker 7>kind of juggling them. But before those come out, my

1683
01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:50.560
<v Speaker 7>colleague Ala Hawkins, he's an award winning filmmaker out of Columbus, Mississippi.

1684
01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:55.640
<v Speaker 7>We're finishing up a documentary right now on on my

1685
01:48:55.760 --> 01:48:58.920
<v Speaker 7>second book, Angels and Vermilion, kind of tracing the trajectory

1686
01:48:59.079 --> 01:49:03.359
<v Speaker 7>of Acacia in the use of DMT from Egypt to

1687
01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:07.279
<v Speaker 7>Prague to London and finally into freemasonry.

1688
01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:15.159
<v Speaker 1>And hopefully that'll be done next spring.

1689
01:49:16.399 --> 01:49:20.000
<v Speaker 7>But yeah, follow me on any of my social media

1690
01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:23.359
<v Speaker 7>accounts and I'll keep you updated on our progress with that.

1691
01:49:23.800 --> 01:49:27.439
<v Speaker 7>And again, thanks guys, it's been a real pleasure.

1692
01:49:27.920 --> 01:49:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank you again. And I do think as far

1693
01:49:32.239 --> 01:49:34.119
<v Speaker 2>as I know, we got hooked up through inner Traditions,

1694
01:49:34.119 --> 01:49:36.199
<v Speaker 2>So I guess if anybody's looking for his books, they

1695
01:49:36.199 --> 01:49:38.439
<v Speaker 2>should be on that site. So you know, he should

1696
01:49:38.479 --> 01:49:41.359
<v Speaker 2>be on the can check that out. Thank you again

1697
01:49:41.439 --> 01:49:43.479
<v Speaker 2>for coming on, and everybody in the chat, that's what's up.

1698
01:49:43.800 --> 01:49:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Even the people who don't agree with this stuff. I

1699
01:49:46.199 --> 01:49:48.439
<v Speaker 2>appreciate your opinion and jumping in on the chat. And

1700
01:49:48.479 --> 01:49:51.119
<v Speaker 2>the people that had stuff to add, that's what's up. Again.

1701
01:49:51.159 --> 01:49:53.319
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate it, and that's why we go live and

1702
01:49:53.439 --> 01:49:56.119
<v Speaker 2>until the next one, everybody be well later