Speaker 1: On January twenty first, twoenty twenty three, a quiet hospital
Speaker 1: room in advent Health, Daytona Beach became the center of
Speaker 1: a heartbreaking and deeply complex tragedy. Ellen Gilland, a seventy
Speaker 1: six year old woman from Florida, had just shot and
Speaker 1: killed her husband, Jerry Gilland, a man she had loved
Speaker 1: for over half a century. The couple had made a
Speaker 1: suicide pact after his health took a severe turn for
Speaker 1: the worse, But when the moment came, Ellen managed to
Speaker 1: end her loving husband's misery, but couldn't follow through with
Speaker 1: taking her own life. Instead, she found herself in a
Speaker 1: four hour standoff with police, holding a gun and overcome
Speaker 1: with grief and fear. This is the heartbreaking story of
Speaker 1: Ellen and Jerry Gilland.
Speaker 2: And my name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
Speaker 1: And Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following material Audience listener,
Speaker 1: Happy Spring.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yesterday right was the first official day.
Speaker 1: The first day of spring.
Speaker 2: And and it snowed here?
Speaker 1: It did it snowed? I mean that's Canada for you.
Speaker 1: Wamp wamp got the weather up here.
Speaker 2: But at least we know there's an end, an end
Speaker 2: in sight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get a short window of summer up here.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then as soon as I mean September
Speaker 1: rolls around, then it gets cold again and we're right
Speaker 1: back to it. At least for us. I don't know
Speaker 1: any know.
Speaker 2: Where you guys live, I would say more so October
Speaker 2: September is usually pretty nice up here.
Speaker 1: Well, it does get nice, but you start getting frost
Speaker 1: in the evenings and stuff, you know, leave.
Speaker 2: Your chair changing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, enjoy it while it lasts, because winter
Speaker 1: will be right back on your doorsteps.
Speaker 2: Yesh, it hasn't even ended, Ben, you're already anticipating next window.
Speaker 1: Winter has ended because it's the spring. Now. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: just warning you, just you know, enjoy it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I always think it's funny springs here,
Speaker 2: but like where we live, I don't know, it doesn't
Speaker 2: really correspond. I always feel like springs a little bit later. Officially.
Speaker 1: Well, you see all those videos of like spring break
Speaker 1: parties on like beaches and stuff, and people are in
Speaker 1: bikinis and doing shots, and we're like still putting on
Speaker 1: our jackets and winter boots, trudging through snow.
Speaker 2: No we're not, though, we put our winter jackets away
Speaker 2: a long time ago, which I think was a mistake.
Speaker 2: I saw someone wearing shorts just yesterday or the day
Speaker 2: before at the grocery store.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still cold out there.
Speaker 2: We still have jackets, and we just like freeze our
Speaker 2: butts off for a little bit because we're done with this.
Speaker 1: I was wearing a wool cloak walking the dogs this morning.
Speaker 2: That's because you like your wool cloak.
Speaker 1: I do like my wool cloak. I have a if
Speaker 1: you know your cloaks, I have a ruwana cloak and
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he walks around in our yard like that.
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of awesome.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm off heading to you know, the
Speaker 1: Lonely Mountain or something like that from the Shy or
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: Gotta love it with your too husky say.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, I think we should get into this story
Speaker 1: right away. This is quite the tail and happened quite
Speaker 1: recently in fact, and is just recently within the past
Speaker 1: few months being resolved.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, you did tell me a little bit
Speaker 2: about it, but really nothing more than the intro. Even
Speaker 2: the intro had a bit more than I knew, and
Speaker 2: it's this is gonna, I feel, be a heartbreaking one.
Speaker 1: This is very much a heartbreaking one. And it's got
Speaker 1: a little bit of controversy around it as well, because
Speaker 1: there's like, well, what do you do in a situation
Speaker 1: like that if you are put in that situation? And
Speaker 1: what do you do if you are the authorities in
Speaker 1: that situation? And well, of course we have our answers
Speaker 1: and what actually happened, but what you think might be
Speaker 1: completely different. So it is a little bit controversial. There's
Speaker 1: people on both sides of the coins and what they
Speaker 1: think should and should not have happened. But we'll go
Speaker 1: through this and we'll see where we're at.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: So this story hit headlines and it may may have
Speaker 1: seemed like a shocking act of violence, but Ellen, to her,
Speaker 1: it was something else entirely. It was a promise, a
Speaker 1: heartbreaking last act of love for the men that she
Speaker 1: spent fifty three years with, fifty three years by his
Speaker 1: side and Jerry, I mean, he was terminally ill, suffering
Speaker 1: from severe health complications and had begged her to help
Speaker 1: him end his life. In Ellen's eyes, she was granting
Speaker 1: him his last and final wish gosh. Now, Ellen's story
Speaker 1: is one of love, loss and desperation. She and Jerry
Speaker 1: build life together from their teenage years, through marriage, health struggles,
Speaker 1: and the challenges of aging. Their journey led to a
Speaker 1: moment neither of them had ever imagined. Now, Ellen Gillen's
Speaker 1: life started far from the headlines in the courtrooms. Now,
Speaker 1: one thing, before I really get into this, I want
Speaker 1: to tell you that most of the research actually came
Speaker 1: from Ellen herself. So there is a video on YouTube
Speaker 1: where she stands and addresses the courtroom and she tells
Speaker 1: a bit of her story, who she is and how
Speaker 1: she got to the situation she found herself in. So
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you is my interpretation coming directly from her.
Speaker 1: So I listened to her talk, and this is what
Speaker 1: we have, okay. So Ellen was born in Iowa in
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, the daughter of you know, a typical
Speaker 1: middle class American family. When she was just three years
Speaker 1: old in nineteen forty nine, her parents packed up their
Speaker 1: lives and moved to Ormond Beach, Florida, looking for new opportunities.
Speaker 1: Her father was a building contractor, working hard to construct
Speaker 1: homes in a growing Florida town, while her mother was
Speaker 1: a teacher and elementary school principal, instilling the value of
Speaker 1: education in their children. Now Ellen grew up and in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, her youngest sister would be born, completing
Speaker 1: the family. In nineteen fifty six, when Ellen was ten
Speaker 1: years old, the family relocated once again, this time to
Speaker 1: winter Park, Florida, where she would spend the rest of
Speaker 1: her childhood. And there they met. Ellen and Jerry met
Speaker 1: as young teenagers in the eighth grade, attending middle school
Speaker 1: in winter Park, Florida. Together over the years, they developed
Speaker 1: a close friendship, sharing classes, conversations, and everyday school life together.
Speaker 1: Now throughout middle and high school, they remained good friends,
Speaker 1: but nothing more. Life took them in different directions after graduation,
Speaker 1: and eventually, like many, they just simply lost touch. Now
Speaker 1: Ellen attended Winter Park public schools at the time and
Speaker 1: excelled all through her studies, and later she enrolled in
Speaker 1: Rolling College, a private liberal arts school. She had a
Speaker 1: creative side, and after finishing at Roland, she pursued her
Speaker 1: artistic interests at Wringling School of Art in Sarasota, Florida,
Speaker 1: where she spent two years studying Ellen's early years were
Speaker 1: shaped by a strong work ethic and a love for learning,
Speaker 1: values that would stay with her all throughout her life.
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty four, during the Christmas season, Ellen and
Speaker 1: Jerry just so happened to bump in each other by
Speaker 1: happenstance at winter Park Mall. Now, they were both in
Speaker 1: their late teens, and something about that moment changed things.
Speaker 1: They started dating a little bit, you know, casually at first,
Speaker 1: then a little bit more seriously as time went on.
Speaker 1: The relationship had a slow and steady foundation built on
Speaker 1: years of friendship from the past and you know, deep understanding.
Speaker 1: But life had other plans. In nineteen sixty four, Jerry
Speaker 1: was sent to Vietnam, serving as a clerk typist in
Speaker 1: a Joint Air Force and Army commander office. Now, while
Speaker 1: he wasn't in direct combat, his role was important. He
Speaker 1: handed paperwork from high ranking officials and had access to
Speaker 1: key personnel. This connection would prove life saving when Ellen's
Speaker 1: brother Jean, who was also in Vietnam, was in danger
Speaker 1: of being left behind. See Jane was a ranger who
Speaker 1: had been wounded and was due to rotate back to
Speaker 1: the USA, but due to a paperwork error, he was overlooked,
Speaker 1: and he wrote home, telling his family that he might
Speaker 1: not make it out alive.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: When Ellen's mother heard this, she immediately reached out to
Speaker 1: her daughter, desperate for help, and Ellen in turn told Jerry,
Speaker 1: who used his position to track down Jane's orders and
Speaker 1: personally walked them through the system. Because of Jerry's actions,
Speaker 1: Jane was able to return home safely.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: After Jerry's service in Vietnam, the two knew they didn't
Speaker 1: want to spend any more time apart.
Speaker 2: I know, I was like, that will do it?
Speaker 1: Eh. In nineteen sixty nine, they got married and started
Speaker 1: their life together. Officially, this is honestly something that should
Speaker 1: be fucking turned into a movie. Their life seems like
Speaker 1: a romance novel. And I'm not talking like one of
Speaker 1: those hot and steamy ones. I'm talking like, just like
Speaker 1: a beautiful story for the thing, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: That does like I mean he went about saving her
Speaker 2: brother right, and then now they're like, okay, we're in.
Speaker 1: Well and not only that, how many Hallmark movies can
Speaker 1: you think of and name off the top of your head.
Speaker 1: You probably don't even have enough fingers that have people
Speaker 1: who knew each other in high school kind of liked
Speaker 1: each other a little bit and then they bump into
Speaker 1: each other in a mall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well wasn't it at Christmas too?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there you go, like.
Speaker 1: Just saying this should like Hallmark get on this.
Speaker 2: I also have to just point out to I don't know,
Speaker 2: you said, you were talking about how they the family's
Speaker 2: relocated right and like a few times, and how they
Speaker 2: start their life and stuff restart their life. I kind
Speaker 2: of love that. I don't feel like that is something
Speaker 2: people really do so much anymore.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I think many people will
Speaker 1: relocate prior to ever starting their life at all, prior
Speaker 1: to having roots set then.
Speaker 2: But I think it's just this world. It's hard to
Speaker 2: do that, like to get a mortgage and stuff in
Speaker 2: a different city per se, It's not always like the easiest.
Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, ain't that the truth? You have to
Speaker 1: prove you know, job opportunities and income prior to getting
Speaker 1: a more hit new towns.
Speaker 2: You can't really just like start over as easy and
Speaker 2: maybe as back then.
Speaker 1: So yeah, now, over the next fifty three years, they
Speaker 1: built this you know, full love, full life of love.
Speaker 1: Jerry was known for his kindness, as humor, and generosity,
Speaker 1: and Ellen saw him as her rock throughout all of
Speaker 1: life's ups and downs. Now Jerry had a position for
Speaker 1: or sorry, a passion for cooking and woodworking, often making
Speaker 1: beautiful handmade boxes and even crafting port swings you know,
Speaker 1: one to sit outside their home. Though they never had children,
Speaker 1: they built a life centered around each other. Ellen's career
Speaker 1: path was anything but ordinary. She didn't follow a single path,
Speaker 1: but instead carved out of life filled with creativity and
Speaker 1: independence and also adaptability. Over the years, she worked in
Speaker 1: professional photography labs, managed managed a Walden book's retail store,
Speaker 1: and even ran her own Foliage nursery. Whether it was arts,
Speaker 1: books or plants. Allen seemed to have a knack for
Speaker 1: diving into new ventures and making them work no matter what. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Jerry took a different route. He was a skilled tradesman
Speaker 1: working in construction for a company that specialized in installing
Speaker 1: high purity stainless steel piping for computer and pharmaceutical industries.
Speaker 1: His work took him all over the country, and Ellen
Speaker 1: often traveled with him, sharing in the experience going on
Speaker 1: the road. But as they got older, they began thinking
Speaker 1: about their future, particularly retirement. With Jerry's job requiring constant travel,
Speaker 1: Ellen realized she needed a more stable career with some
Speaker 1: more benefits. She had always been interested in education, and
Speaker 1: since she'd already had a degree, she decided to return
Speaker 1: to school in her fifties to specialize in Exceptional Students
Speaker 1: Education or ESE, which that in itself is pretty awesome
Speaker 1: going back to school in your fifties.
Speaker 2: I honestly love this couple so far. I'm just like
Speaker 2: so obsessed with them.
Speaker 1: Fair enough so balancing work in night classes, Ellen earned
Speaker 1: her master's degree in special education from Nova South Southeastern University.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety seven, she landed a job as an
Speaker 1: ees teacher at Mount Dora Middle School. She later also
Speaker 1: taught at Mount Dora High School and dedicated over fifteen
Speaker 1: years helping students with learning and behavioral disabilities before retiring
Speaker 1: finally in twenty thirteen. By the time they settled into
Speaker 1: their later years, Ellen and Jerry had built a full
Speaker 1: and busy life. They had traveled, they'd worked hard, hard,
Speaker 1: and planned for a stable future with each other by
Speaker 1: their side. But what they couldn't have planned for was
Speaker 1: a health crisis that would turn their world upside down.
Speaker 1: As much as Ellen and Jerry had built a life
Speaker 1: of love and stability, time brought challenges that neither could
Speaker 1: have ever foreseen. Health issues, family losses, and natural disasters
Speaker 1: piled up, making their life later years more difficult than
Speaker 1: they had ever expected. Ellen had faced serious health struggles
Speaker 1: from a young age. In fact, she was even diagnosed
Speaker 1: with cancer earlier in her life, forcing her to undergo
Speaker 1: a hysterectomy, which is the reason why they were never
Speaker 1: able to have children. Later in life, she learned that
Speaker 1: she carried the brack of one gene, or the BRCA
Speaker 1: one gene. It's a mutation which puts her at very
Speaker 1: high risk for breast and ovarian cancer. That risk became
Speaker 1: devastatingly real when her younger sister died from ovarian cancer,
Speaker 1: and years later her older sister also lost the battle
Speaker 1: with cancer too.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: In addition to cancer, Ellen suffered from osteoporosis, a condition
Speaker 1: she inherited from her father and grandmother. It made her
Speaker 1: bones brittle and fragile, leading to frequent fractures throughout her life.
Speaker 1: Over the years, she had been hospitalized more than a
Speaker 1: dozen times. For broken bones. Her medical history included a
Speaker 1: replaced left hip, replaced right knee, metal rods and both femurs,
Speaker 1: a pin in her right hip, bone to bone pain
Speaker 1: in her left knee, you name it. She had lots
Speaker 1: going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a lot, But.
Speaker 1: That wasn't all. Ellen also battled type two diabetes. She
Speaker 1: also battled COPD sleep apnea. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can pronounce this one, but you're going to do my best.
Speaker 1: Sojourns syndrome, and high cholesterol. Daily life became a struggle,
Speaker 1: and she often relied on a walker to get around.
Speaker 1: As if her own health challenges weren't enough, loss continued
Speaker 1: to follow her. Her brother Jean, who Jerry had helped
Speaker 1: save in Vietnam, later died from complications related to agent
Speaker 1: orange exposure. By the time twenty twenty two arrived, Ellen
Speaker 1: had lost both her sisters and her brother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just like, that's all her siblings, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes. Her only remaining close family member was her niece,
Speaker 1: and by then Jerry was all she had left oh Man. Then,
Speaker 1: in late twenty twenty two, disaster struck once again. A
Speaker 1: hurricane flooded their home, damaging or destroying many of their belongings.
Speaker 1: They lost furniture, legal documents, financial documents, Ellen's personal art portfolios.
Speaker 1: You know, powered what's the word I'm looking for machinery.
Speaker 1: Maybe machinery isn't the word, but like powered wheelchairs and stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, things to make their life. I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2: Of medical assistance, yes.
Speaker 1: Medical assisting stuff. I can't think of the word. Why
Speaker 1: can't I think of the word. You guys know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about, Like powered wheelchairs, you know, motorize things
Speaker 1: or whatever for help their health. They're aging exactly now.
Speaker 1: The stress from the hurricane left Ellen deep deeply anxious,
Speaker 1: triggering panic attacks even just whenever it rained. The couple
Speaker 1: had to move into temporary housing and struggling to rebuild
Speaker 1: their lives, while Jerry was now declining in health as well.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Oh, their life was like is so magical.
Speaker 2: But then there's also now as they're aging, it just
Speaker 2: seems kind of shitty. I know, dang, they don't deserve that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So for years Ellen and Jerry were there, supporting
Speaker 1: each other through every single hardship they faced, But as
Speaker 1: Jerry's condition worsened, Ellen found herself in an unthinkable position.
Speaker 1: She was beginning to watch the man that she loved
Speaker 1: suffer with absolutely no hope of recovery. For most of
Speaker 1: his life, Jerry was a strong and capable man. He
Speaker 1: had always been relatively healthy, working physically demanding jobs well
Speaker 1: into adulthood, but after retirement things started to change. Jerry
Speaker 1: gained a significant amount of weight, which led to type
Speaker 1: two diabetes and atri fiblleration, a heart condition that causes
Speaker 1: an irregular and often dangerously fast heartbeat. He also developed
Speaker 1: a hernia, which required surgery, but during that operation, doctors
Speaker 1: made a terrifying discovery. Jerry had an aortic aneurism, a
Speaker 1: dangerous bulge in the main artery of the heart. He
Speaker 1: underwent surgery to repair the aneurism, but during that procedure,
Speaker 1: doctors discovered a second, smaller aneurism located even closer to
Speaker 1: his heart. At first, he recovered well, but his body
Speaker 1: became fragile and one health issue seemed to lead to another.
Speaker 1: Then in December of twenty twenty two, Jerry's health took
Speaker 1: a sudden and devastating turn. He became seriously ill and
Speaker 1: was admitted to intensive care at Advent Health in New
Speaker 1: Samira Beach, Florida. From there, he was transferred to the
Speaker 1: Hospital Rehabilitation Unit in Ormond Beach on January first, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. At first, Ellen and Jerry they remained hopeful
Speaker 1: despite his condition. Jerry was talking and could even eat
Speaker 1: soft foods. His tracheotomy tube used to help him breathe
Speaker 1: was supposed to be removed soon a major step towards recovery.
Speaker 1: Physical therapists work with him and trying to help him stand,
Speaker 1: you know, beside his bed in the hospital, things like this.
Speaker 1: But after just a few weeks, things started to go wrong.
Speaker 1: Jerry developed a severe bed sore, causing excruciating pain. He
Speaker 1: became weaker instead of stronger, losing his ability to stand.
Speaker 1: The physical therapy team stopped coming as often, and eventually
Speaker 1: they stopped coming at all. The tracheotomy tube, which was
Speaker 1: supposed to be removed, remained in place. Jerry, who had
Speaker 1: once been hopeful, began to lose faith that there would
Speaker 1: ever be a day where he could leave the hospital.
Speaker 1: He told his brother Sam that he wouldn't make it
Speaker 1: out alive, and Ellen, who spent twelve to fourteen hours
Speaker 1: a day at his bedside, watched helplessly as her husband
Speaker 1: deteriorated right before her eyes.
Speaker 2: Dang, it almost seems like they gave up on him.
Speaker 2: But I guess they're like the rehabilitation team. There was
Speaker 2: just nothing else, nothing they could be doing, and how
Speaker 2: he got like was seeming more healthy.
Speaker 1: Exactly. You can only rehabilitate those who are on the
Speaker 1: path to rehabilitation, right, Yeah. Like, for example, if you have,
Speaker 1: say a dying limb, your leg is dying for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: You know, circulation's going, You're not going to learn to rewalk.
Speaker 1: If your limb is still dying, you need, you know,
Speaker 1: to have that limb get better or amputated to learn
Speaker 1: to walk without it. Yah, there's steps to take before
Speaker 1: learning to walk again, you know what I mean, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So desperate to find help. I mean there was of
Speaker 1: course questions, you know that they had and everything, but
Speaker 1: they're doing their best. They're desperate to find help. They're
Speaker 1: talking to nurses, talking to doctors, trying to figure it out,
Speaker 1: and Ellen just threw it all, refused to leave his bedside,
Speaker 1: and despite her efforts, Jerry just still kept getting worse.
Speaker 1: By mid January, Ellen had come to the heartbreaking realization
Speaker 1: her husband wasn't getting better, he was getting worse, and
Speaker 1: Jerry was growing weaker and more depressed each day. By
Speaker 1: mid January twenty twenty three, Jerry was giving up any
Speaker 1: sort of hope. The man who had spent his life working, traveling,
Speaker 1: and building a future with his wife was now bedridden.
Speaker 1: He was in pain and unable to stand. The tracheotomy tube,
Speaker 1: which doctors had initially said could be removed, seemed like
Speaker 1: it was never going to be. He couldn't eat solid
Speaker 1: foods anymore, he couldn't move freely, and he become a
Speaker 1: shadow of the man that he once was. Day after day,
Speaker 1: Ellen just sat there watched, praying, but her husband just
Speaker 1: grew weaker and more hopeless. He started telling her and
Speaker 1: his brother Sam that he wasn't going to make it out,
Speaker 1: and then one of the hardest conversations came. The conversations
Speaker 1: turned from you know, I'm not getting out of here,
Speaker 1: and it turned to Jerry begging Ellen to help him
Speaker 1: end his life. At first, Ellen didn't believe it. There
Speaker 1: were other options, right, There's got to be had. They
Speaker 1: tried everything, but from their perspective, the hospital staff just
Speaker 1: wasn't listening to her concerns. And Jerry's condition it wasn't improving.
Speaker 1: She didn't seem to trust the system anymore. She later
Speaker 1: testified that no one ever talked to her about hospice
Speaker 1: or even comfort care, which might have provided an alternate
Speaker 1: ending to Jerry's life, but instead she and Jerry were
Speaker 1: left feeling isolated and just out of options. After two
Speaker 1: days of discussions, Ellen gave in. On January twenty first,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. She left the hospital and drove back
Speaker 1: to the rental house that they'd been staying in since
Speaker 1: the hurric Jerry had always owned a thirty eight caliber Revolver,
Speaker 1: but it had been damaged by floodwaters when their home
Speaker 1: was destroyed. He told Ellen where to find it, and
Speaker 1: she took it, the gun and bullets to a gun
Speaker 1: shop to make sure it was still functional. The workers
Speaker 1: checked it over and confirmed that with a little cleaning,
Speaker 1: it would fire just fine. That same day, Ellen sat
Speaker 1: at a computer and typed a suicide.
Speaker 2: Note, Oh my Goodness.
Speaker 1: She later said she hadn't originally planned to write one,
Speaker 1: but felt that she should say something before carrying out
Speaker 1: the plan that they had concocted. She then returned to
Speaker 1: the hospital carrying a gun and a fresh box of bullets.
Speaker 1: When she was back in Jerry's room, they talked one
Speaker 1: last time about what they were about to do. Jerry
Speaker 1: was supposed to do it himself. However, he was too
Speaker 1: weak to even hold the gun. He loaded it himself,
Speaker 1: but he couldn't lift it off his chest. And that's
Speaker 1: when Ellen realized she would have to pull trigger for him.
Speaker 2: Okay, because it's not like it's it's not the smallest
Speaker 2: of guns, right, It's a pistol, it's a it's a revolve,
Speaker 2: a revolver. Oh, it is, okay, So he's like really
Speaker 2: weak at this.
Speaker 1: Point, then yes, it would be just like a couple pounds,
Speaker 1: like maybe two pounds or something like that. Man, And yeah,
Speaker 1: he can't he can't lift it off his chest.
Speaker 2: And I just also have to say, like she herself
Speaker 2: has so much health issues too, right, and like I
Speaker 2: can't imagine her watching her husband.
Speaker 1: Just fade away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is any good for her? Right either in her
Speaker 2: stress and stuff?
Speaker 1: Like dang, definitely not now. Upon this realization, she took
Speaker 1: a deep breath and one last time she hesitated. According
Speaker 1: to Ellen, she held the gun behind Jerry's ear, but
Speaker 1: for a moment She pulled it away and asked him,
Speaker 1: are you sure. Jerry didn't speak. Instead, he placed his
Speaker 1: hand on her arm and pushed the gun back towards
Speaker 1: his head.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: A second later, she pulled the trigger. The sound of
Speaker 1: the gunshot rang through the hospital, but for Ellen, the
Speaker 1: world had gone completely silent. Jerry was now gone. The
Speaker 1: man that she loved for over five decades lay lifeless
Speaker 1: in front of her. She had promised him that she
Speaker 1: would follow soon after, but that this would be what
Speaker 1: they did together, their final act in their relationship. But
Speaker 1: as she sat there in that hospital room, her hands shaking,
Speaker 1: she just couldn't find the will to do it herself.
Speaker 1: She placed the gun on the bedside, then picked it
Speaker 1: back up. She wanted to finish what they had planned,
Speaker 1: but she just couldn't do it. And that's when a
Speaker 1: nurse walked in. At first, the nurse thought a piece
Speaker 1: of equipment had fallen in the bed and that's what
Speaker 1: was sitting there, But when he saw Jerry motionless and
Speaker 1: Ellen sitting there, he froze. He realized what that piece
Speaker 1: of equipment was. Ellen, overcome with grief, waved the gun
Speaker 1: in his direction and told him leave me alone. The
Speaker 1: nurse backed out of the room and sounded the hospital alarm.
Speaker 1: Within minutes, hospital security guards arrived at the door, cautiously
Speaker 1: looking inside. Allan was still sitting there, crying and holding
Speaker 1: Jerry's hand, and she shouted at them, I have a gun,
Speaker 1: go away now. They of course retreated and called police,
Speaker 1: and they arrived very soon after. Police quickly realized this
Speaker 1: wasn't just a crime scene, it was a hostage situation
Speaker 1: at this point, as she was hold up with Jerry's
Speaker 1: remains in that room and for the next four hours,
Speaker 1: negotiators tried to convince Ellen to put the gun down
Speaker 1: and surrender peacefully, but Ellen was still in a state
Speaker 1: of shock. She didn't trust what police were telling her,
Speaker 1: as they were telling her that they were able to
Speaker 1: get Jerry a funeral if she cooperated, but she just
Speaker 1: didn't believe them. And by this time hospital staff had
Speaker 1: evacuated nearby patients and the floor was in lockdown. Officers
Speaker 1: stood outside the room, ballistic shields raised, waiting for an
Speaker 1: opportunity to end the standoff. Now, Ellen, she was just
Speaker 1: in grief. She wanted to spend last moments with her
Speaker 1: husband in peace. She was in shock, she didn't know
Speaker 1: what she was doing.
Speaker 2: In all honesty, I know, I feel like what she
Speaker 2: had envisioned or thought this process would be like, it
Speaker 2: didn't end that way.
Speaker 1: No. Now. At one point, Ellen considered shooting herself once again,
Speaker 1: and she later recalled putting the gun to her temple,
Speaker 1: but realized that as she pulled the trigger, she would
Speaker 1: fall onto the floor. To quote her, I wasn't thinking clearly.
Speaker 1: I spent the last forty years being careful not to
Speaker 1: fall on the floor.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: So her body was telling her, if you do this,
Speaker 1: you're going to fall on the floor. Yeah, And that
Speaker 1: was again every instinct that.
Speaker 2: She had because her bones are so brittle, right, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, In that moment, she set the gun down just
Speaker 1: for a second to adjust her chair. That was the
Speaker 1: opening that the police were waiting for. As soon as
Speaker 1: Ellen reached for the gun again, officers threw in a
Speaker 1: flash bang grenade into the room. A loud, disorienting explosion
Speaker 1: designed to stun her went off. So if you don't
Speaker 1: know flash bang grenades, it's a grenade. It's completely harmless,
Speaker 1: but it's just a stunning sound and stunning light, so
Speaker 1: it blinds. It basically takes away many of your senses
Speaker 1: for a few minutes. Okay, okay, So it's a loud
Speaker 1: bang and a blinding light. Ellen says she doesn't remember
Speaker 1: exactly what happened next, but as a flash bang went off,
Speaker 1: the gun discharged in the room, the bullet went into
Speaker 1: the ceiling, and officers rushed onto her. She dropped the
Speaker 1: gun and raised her hands, and she was officially arrested.
Speaker 1: One officer swabbed her hands for gunpowder residue, obviously for
Speaker 1: evidence of a potential murder right while another appallogized for
Speaker 1: shooting at her because in the chaos when the gun discharged,
Speaker 1: he too shot, but he shot and just missed her,
Speaker 1: hitting the floor behind her. They placed her in a wheelchair,
Speaker 1: handcuffed her, and took her out of the hospital. The
Speaker 1: four hour standoff was officially over Allen was booked into
Speaker 1: the Volusia County Jail and charged with manslaughter with a
Speaker 1: firearm and multiple counts of aggravated assault with the deadly weapon.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors originally pursued harsher charges, including first degree murder, but
Speaker 1: as the case unfolded, they offered a plea deal. In
Speaker 1: December of twenty twenty four, Ellen pleaded no contest, which
Speaker 1: means that she accepts the punishment without admitting guilt. In exchange,
Speaker 1: prosecutors waived sentencing guidelines, including a mandatory three year minimum
Speaker 1: for one of the charges, and capped her prison sentence
Speaker 1: at ten years. So that means that whatever the judge
Speaker 1: decides a sentence or two, it could not go over
Speaker 1: ten years, right, Okay. The final sentencing hearing took place
Speaker 1: on February twenty eighth, twoenty twenty five, under a month ago.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Yeah, I was just like listening to the
Speaker 2: date and I'm like what Yeah, Oh okay.
Speaker 1: Judge Catherine D. Weston made one thing very clear. Ellen
Speaker 1: wasn't just being sentenced for killing Jerry. She was being
Speaker 1: sentenced for the trauma she caused others on that day.
Speaker 2: And yeah, with like the chaos within the hospital.
Speaker 1: Yeah. During the hearing, hospital staff members who had been
Speaker 1: in the hospital that day gave quite the emotional statements
Speaker 1: and testimonies. Nurse Hector Aponti, a security officer Corey Jackson.
Speaker 1: They testified about having a gun pointed at them and
Speaker 1: feeling genuinely threatened for their lives. Body cambridge footage. Bodycam
Speaker 1: footage from swat teams and police officers in the hospital hallways,
Speaker 1: armed and ready to neutralize a threat if at all possible,
Speaker 1: showed that it was very clear that Ellen was posing
Speaker 1: a very real threat, even if she wasn't meaning to.
Speaker 2: I just have to say something like, I get that,
Speaker 2: but I just feel like this day and age, like
Speaker 2: everyone just if they make everything about them and it
Speaker 2: wasn't about them, you know, in a sense. But I
Speaker 2: do get that, it would have been like scary. But
Speaker 2: I don't think that Helen was a threat to anyone
Speaker 2: else really per se.
Speaker 1: In hindsight, she's not, But at.
Speaker 2: The time, I guess it appeared that way.
Speaker 1: Well, you have a person who enters a hospital and
Speaker 1: shoots someone.
Speaker 2: She did just kill someone, Yes, and they I guess
Speaker 2: they weren't aware of like the plan and everything right.
Speaker 1: Well, and even if they are aware of this plan
Speaker 1: and everything, I mean, what's her mental state in after
Speaker 1: shooting her own husband. Is she going to be so
Speaker 1: distraught and is she going to know what she's doing?
Speaker 1: I mean, she was disoriented, she was in shock. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a potential that, I mean, she may have accidentally
Speaker 1: even shot one of the nurses coming in, just because
Speaker 1: she was so scared she didn't trust the nurse staff.
Speaker 1: If they approached her just wrong, she could have even
Speaker 1: accidentally pulled the trigger. Okay, so there is a byproduct
Speaker 1: of what she's doing.
Speaker 2: This story is just so frustrating because it's like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I get you, we know the whole storyline
Speaker 2: and everything. So it seems so frustrating that like it's
Speaker 2: come to this.
Speaker 1: I guess I get you. Thought I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: about that at the end of the story here, So
Speaker 1: we're almost there, and we'll break it down a bit
Speaker 1: in our thoughts. So Ellen also spoke in the courtroom,
Speaker 1: giving a detailed account of her life, marriage, and the
Speaker 1: heartbreaking events that led to her husband's death. And as
Speaker 1: I mentioned, her testimony in court was the primary the
Speaker 1: primary material that I used for research and writing this.
Speaker 1: When the prosecutor pressed about how her actions affected others,
Speaker 1: Ellen responded, quote, I will regret many of my decisions
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. In the end, Judge
Speaker 1: Weston acknowledged that Jerry had been a willing participant in
Speaker 1: the suicide pact, but she also emphasized that Ellen's decision
Speaker 1: to bring a gun into a public hospital endangered others,
Speaker 1: she handed her down the following sentence, she was sentenced
Speaker 1: to three hundred and sixty six days in prison, twelve
Speaker 1: years of probation and community service.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's actually not really that harsh of the of
Speaker 2: a penalty.
Speaker 1: Hey yeah, there was one final piece to her sentence.
Speaker 1: She was also required to write an apology letter to
Speaker 1: the hospital staff and officers that were affected that day.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: With the case officially closed, Ellen was left to serve
Speaker 1: her sentence and to live a life with the weight
Speaker 1: of everything that had happened that day. Ellen and Jerry's
Speaker 1: story is one of very deep love and unbearable suffering
Speaker 1: and impossible choices, impossible choices that had to be made.
Speaker 1: For over five decades, they built a life together. They
Speaker 1: navigated careers, health struggles, personal loss, you name it. But
Speaker 1: on Jerry's final days, that life became a prison of pain,
Speaker 1: can became a prison of isolation and hopelessness. He no
Speaker 1: longer saw a future outside of that hospital bed or
Speaker 1: those walls, and Ellen could no longer bear to watch
Speaker 1: him suffer. What happened in that hospital room on January
Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty twenty three wasn't the act of a
Speaker 1: violent criminal. It was the desperate decision of a grieving
Speaker 1: wife who saw no other way out. This case raises
Speaker 1: difficult and uncomfortable questions. Was Ellen truly guilty of a
Speaker 1: crime or was she honoring her husband's final wish? Should
Speaker 1: law round assisted suicide be reconsidered for cases like this?
Speaker 1: Did the hospital fail Jerry by not presenting hospice or
Speaker 1: palliative care as an option. No matter where one stands,
Speaker 1: there's no denying that this was a tragedy for every
Speaker 1: single person involved, from the staff and the officers caught
Speaker 1: in the chaos to Ellen, who lost absolutely everything that day.
Speaker 1: Many debate whether or not if justice truly prevailed in
Speaker 1: this case, or if the system failed a grieving woman
Speaker 1: who had already lost it all. In the end, Ellen
Speaker 1: Gillen will serve her time both in prison and under probation,
Speaker 1: but the real punishment is something far worse the system
Speaker 1: could never hand her. She will live out her remaining
Speaker 1: years without the one person she built her life around.
Speaker 1: And that is the story of Ellen and Jerry Gillens.
Speaker 2: That is just shit. Yeah, it is holy heck, there's
Speaker 2: so much there, so much I think, Okay, so my
Speaker 2: thought is, Yeah, I guess the fact that it was
Speaker 2: in the public like a public hospital is not good
Speaker 2: because I initially was like it wasn't about them. But
Speaker 2: so if they had done this, say at home, you know,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been like as big of a problem
Speaker 2: probably or an issue for like so many others.
Speaker 1: Yeah, most likely, I mean there still would have been
Speaker 1: like officers and stuff involve because they probably would have
Speaker 1: been a gunshot report officers arriving that sort.
Speaker 2: Of well, honestly, if they were If she was at
Speaker 2: home and had that time to like process and grieve,
Speaker 2: I bet you anything, like she probably would have carried
Speaker 2: through with like the pack that they had made.
Speaker 1: I think potentially it was just.
Speaker 2: Like after she did it, I feel like it was
Speaker 2: so chaotic, she didn't have the time she needed to
Speaker 2: like process like her what her next steps were or
Speaker 2: I don't know. But also the fact that they I
Speaker 2: do feel like the hospital failed them big time too.
Speaker 1: I agree, because she's.
Speaker 2: Just there for like you said, thirteen fourteen hours a day,
Speaker 2: fucking just watching her husband deteriorate, and no one like
Speaker 2: they're not because hospice and stuff is like it can
Speaker 2: be a beautiful place because he wouldn't have probably been
Speaker 2: in pain, right, and it's quite a bit of a
Speaker 2: nicer like environment, and I don't understand why that wasn't
Speaker 2: was brought up. Yeah, unless there was like no room
Speaker 2: for him to go there, because I know lots of
Speaker 2: times hospice they do get full.
Speaker 1: But even still that should be something discussed. You know,
Speaker 1: there's people who do like an at home hospice situation.
Speaker 2: Even well, yeah, and even the hospital themselves I know,
Speaker 2: can do like they should have at least had him
Speaker 2: so that he wasn't like in pain. If he was
Speaker 2: like this was his end of his life, there's ways
Speaker 2: to make him not suffer really.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and he was clearly in pain he pushed the
Speaker 1: gun to his head.
Speaker 2: But there is also like there is I don't know
Speaker 2: because we have it here. I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: like everywhere, but an assisted suicide program yeah, but I
Speaker 2: know it takes some time and like there's paperwork and
Speaker 2: shit and which I have to like what's the word
Speaker 2: you have to apply well, be accepted kind of thing, right,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think they accept everyone.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because you have to apply for it and
Speaker 1: then you go through it and they determine your situation,
Speaker 1: and they can turn you away or accept you, which
Speaker 1: I think is honestly bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I'm
Speaker 1: not pro suicide, but if someone's going to do it,
Speaker 1: they're going to fucking do it. And if you decline them,
Speaker 1: you put them into a situation like this where it
Speaker 1: now involves other people, whether it's finding them, whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, in a public space, all those sort of situations.
Speaker 1: My personal and don't get me wrong, there's probably plenty
Speaker 1: of holes in this thought process, but my personal perspective
Speaker 1: on how this should be handled is someone goes to
Speaker 1: a hospital says I want to commit suicide. The hospital
Speaker 1: takes them in for I don't know if it say
Speaker 1: forty eight hours. You stay at the hoste little for
Speaker 1: forty eight hours, You fill it your little application, You
Speaker 1: talk to a couple psychiatrists. Okay, they say, okay, if
Speaker 1: they approve you, which they I think they should. If
Speaker 1: at the end of those forty eight hours you still
Speaker 1: want to do it, they approve you and they set
Speaker 1: a date with you, they say, oh yeah, he.
Speaker 2: Was of sound mind, still right, it was, and.
Speaker 1: In his situation, he's like, I'm going to do it today. Okay,
Speaker 1: this time today, we will assist you. And some people
Speaker 1: might be like, you know what, I'm not certain. Let's
Speaker 1: do thirty days from now. Okay, Well you're like not
Speaker 1: on your fucking deathbed suffering, you can, you know, go
Speaker 1: back to work and come back and talk to us
Speaker 1: in thirty days. I think there needs to be a
Speaker 1: more accepting way to help people. I really do, because,
Speaker 1: as the judge even said, this isn't about just about
Speaker 1: Jerry's death. It's about the effect on the public.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you decline someone from an assisted death,
Speaker 1: you are pushing it onto them and the public. That's
Speaker 1: the system doing that. Dang.
Speaker 2: Well. I just also like I'm just still processing everything.
Speaker 2: But like even him having the bed, like you said,
Speaker 2: he had beds like quite bad bed sores, right, yes,
Speaker 2: which is it's well I believe it's a lack of care, yes,
Speaker 2: because well, especially if you're in hospice, they have like
Speaker 2: I know, there's like different kind of beds that like
Speaker 2: make it airflow kind of come if you're not very mobile,
Speaker 2: and then the car aids and stuff are supposed to
Speaker 2: be moving you quite regularly, like so that you don't
Speaker 2: get bed sores.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's still possible to happen.
Speaker 2: It is, it is totally yeah, but it is.
Speaker 1: It's at least a sign of potential neglect in the hospital.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, because even as you're reading that, at
Speaker 2: times it seemed it did seem like they were just
Speaker 2: like there and not getting the care they needed or
Speaker 2: or the options they needed, and it was just like there,
Speaker 2: he was just like rotten away in there. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: he was in like his own little he died like
Speaker 2: in his own little jail cell. Really essentially like worse
Speaker 2: than really Yeah, oh gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I honestly think that for someone who's seeking to
Speaker 1: find a different end at their own will, I think
Speaker 1: there needs to be assistance for that. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that there is enough assistance for it yet in
Speaker 1: this world. I think there are better ways to handle it.
Speaker 1: What I don't know. I can come up with a
Speaker 1: couple different things off the top of my head, but
Speaker 1: I guess that I guarantee you there's some holes in
Speaker 1: that thought process. I clearly am not the one to
Speaker 1: be making that call, but I think someone somewhere needs
Speaker 1: to actually figure it out and put it into legislation
Speaker 1: and help someone like that.
Speaker 2: They had no idea there was any other options. Really,
Speaker 2: this is what they thought was the best.
Speaker 1: Right in a hospital situation like that, Why couldn't Ellen
Speaker 1: have gone to you know? A doctor had a conversation
Speaker 1: been like, look, this is our situation. I'm gonna fucking
Speaker 1: bring a gun, right, And he's like, don't do that.
Speaker 1: We have medication for it. I mean, you can book
Speaker 1: and just go put your your pet down. Why can't
Speaker 1: you book and go do the same sort of thing?
Speaker 2: Do you hear that? So often people think we treat
Speaker 2: our pets better than like humans and stuff.
Speaker 1: So why can't the doctor be like, okay, here, you
Speaker 1: know what. This is the only thing I can think
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, So I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: use it. Here's some cyanide pills. You know what, you
Speaker 1: and your husband, you know what. We'll bring in another
Speaker 1: little cot you can lay in beside him, and in
Speaker 1: an hour you guys will be together forever.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but not to necessarily give it to her though,
Speaker 2: Well right, so.
Speaker 1: I mean, why why not?
Speaker 2: Well she isn't really on her deathbed. I don't know, shit,
Speaker 2: this is so hard. I'm I just here like they
Speaker 2: had such a beautiful life and it's just such a
Speaker 2: shitty end to it. Really, it's a terrible end.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. I'm not vouching for Ellen who
Speaker 1: have taken her life, but that's there's just got to
Speaker 1: be a line in the sand somewhere for who gets
Speaker 1: it and who doesn't and how we treat that. And
Speaker 1: I don't know that. There's got to be a better
Speaker 1: way to figure it out.
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, I guess I can understand him
Speaker 2: getting it. If there if he literally is just going
Speaker 2: to deteriorate more and more, there's nothing that they can do.
Speaker 2: But like she wasn't in the hospital, I know her
Speaker 2: health wasn't great, But like that, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily know if I could get behind as easy, I guess.
Speaker 1: No, I totally understand. And this is a very heavy topic,
Speaker 1: very heavy topic. I'm aware of that. But who who
Speaker 1: gets to say? Who does and doesn't get you know,
Speaker 1: to self delete like that.
Speaker 2: Well, I know we had had a conversation at one point,
Speaker 2: and you people do this at home, they commit suicide,
Speaker 2: people do all the time, and there's there's absolutely no
Speaker 2: consequences zero. So this is Yeah, this is this is hard.
Speaker 1: Because who's to say that Ellen isn't going to do
Speaker 1: something to herself. Still, she's the only one who knows truly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so if she says, help me do it or I'm
Speaker 1: going to do it myself, I think, then you know what, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll have a small waiting period and if you're still
Speaker 1: adamant that you will be doing it yourself, then okay.
Speaker 2: Because now she has to live with the fact that
Speaker 2: she like shot her husband. Yeah, I can't imagine that
Speaker 2: her mental state is great at all here.
Speaker 1: Not only that she doesn't have to just live the
Speaker 1: fact that she shot her husband, she has to live
Speaker 1: with the fact that she told him she was going
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's not at all gosh, Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: this is terrible.
Speaker 1: So this is Yeah, this conversation at the end here,
Speaker 1: there's so much hypothetical in it and many things that
Speaker 1: I mean, I know I've said a couple like strong opinions.
Speaker 1: My strong opinions are not concrete opinions. There's many things
Speaker 1: I'm probably not even thinking of. Whether you know how
Speaker 1: to deal with it or how not to deal with it,
Speaker 1: why we should or why we shouldn't it's just hypothetical,
Speaker 1: just kind of conversation, discussing ideas about it. It's a
Speaker 1: tough topic and if you are seeking, you know, that
Speaker 1: solution yourself, we do recommend that you get some help.
Speaker 1: Talk to someone. That is the first step, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: That is the first step. Even if it's like hey
Speaker 1: and Ellen and Jerry, they should have talked to someone first, right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm that's why I'm kind of still thinking
Speaker 2: like Helen still she still had life to live, she did, right, So.
Speaker 1: But this falls back to not being able to trust
Speaker 1: the hospital and then failing the CIS is failing.
Speaker 2: These people, Oh yeah, it failed them big time.
Speaker 1: And then because of that failure within the system, Allen
Speaker 1: is now charged.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 1: So this is a very heavy story and it's a
Speaker 1: very very fresh one as well.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and I can't imagine this is anyway how
Speaker 2: like her husband didn't want want it to go this
Speaker 2: way whatsoever?
Speaker 1: Right, so, no, gosh, but Ellen did she gave up
Speaker 1: absolutely everything to grant her husband his final wish. And
Speaker 1: I'll just end it with that. If you guys want
Speaker 1: to check out our links, our socials, give us your
Speaker 1: opinion on it. You can shoot us an email, find
Speaker 1: us Instagram, Facebook. All the stuff is in the description
Speaker 1: of this podcast. Yeah, let us know your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we should also say I have to say
Speaker 2: one more thing is that she wasn't like a cool,
Speaker 2: bloody killer. No, she wasn't like a bad person. Right.
Speaker 2: We talk about so many cases where people do take
Speaker 2: other people's lives and just for the joy and shit
Speaker 2: shit of it. Right, but she was like literally felt
Speaker 2: this was right and was trying to help her husband,
Speaker 2: who you know, I felt like he had no other way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she did that with every ounce of good intention,
Speaker 1: out of love. She did that out of love.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's send it that.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for being here, and we'll see you
Speaker 1: in the next episode and until then, stay wicked.