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<v Speaker 3>Loop host.

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<v Speaker 5>You are now listening to true Murder, the most shocking

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<v Speaker 5>killers in true crime history and the authors that have

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<v Speaker 5>written about them. Gasey Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK. Every

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<v Speaker 5>week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and

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<v Speaker 5>infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,

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<v Speaker 5>journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your

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<v Speaker 5>host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, the most

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<v Speaker 5>shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that

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<v Speaker 5>have written about them. After years of hard work, Brian

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<v Speaker 5>and Jeanie League had earned a well deserved life of

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<v Speaker 5>leisure in their picture perfect Phoenix mansion until their troubled

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<v Speaker 5>son showed up with a need for cash and a

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<v Speaker 5>thirst for murder. David Legg was an obsessive control freak

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<v Speaker 5>and an army deserter. After fathering an illegitimate child, he

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<v Speaker 5>wooed and wed a trusting young woman, only to destroy

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<v Speaker 5>his marriage with lies and infidelities. But his susceptions were

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<v Speaker 5>far from over. In June of nineteen ninety six, Genie

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<v Speaker 5>and Brian were found shot to death, their bodies sitting

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<v Speaker 5>next to each other on their living room love seat.

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<v Speaker 5>Jeanie's expensive ring and the couple's credit cards were missing. Meanwhile, David,

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<v Speaker 5>the prime suspect, was living it up in Hawaii with

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<v Speaker 5>his fifteen year old girlfriend draining his dead parents savings

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<v Speaker 5>through ATMs. After a long and costly chase, this remorseless

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<v Speaker 5>killer faced a jury of his peers in two thousand

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<v Speaker 5>and was locked behind bars for life. The book This

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<v Speaker 5>Evening We're featured is a Deadly Deceit by a returning

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<v Speaker 5>guest and journalist and best selling author, Don Lassiter. Welcome

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<v Speaker 5>back to the program, Don Lassiter.

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<v Speaker 6>Hi Dan, great to be with you again.

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<v Speaker 7>Thank you very much for green to come back on

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<v Speaker 7>another great book. Congratulations. Let's start off with a little

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<v Speaker 7>bit of the details of Deadly Deceit. I guess maybe

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<v Speaker 7>we can introduce some of the characters. Let's introduce Brian

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<v Speaker 7>and Jeanie Legg. Let's go way back and talk about

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<v Speaker 7>the lives of Brian Legg to start.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, Brian LaGG was an Air Force captain served in

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<v Speaker 6>Vietnam and honorably retired and from the Air Force and

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<v Speaker 6>met a mother of three young well actually teenagers by

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<v Speaker 6>that time, and the fell in love and married her

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<v Speaker 6>within about a year or so. They have their own son,

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<v Speaker 6>David Legg.

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<v Speaker 7>Now they went on to have other children as well,

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<v Speaker 7>but was that they adopted some children?

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<v Speaker 6>Tell us a little. Jeannie had children from previous marriage, yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 6>and when David, when Brian married, they're only a child together,

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<v Speaker 6>was David.

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, Okay, thank you for that. Okay, Now, so tell

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<v Speaker 7>us what life was like growing up with Brian Lake,

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<v Speaker 7>What was really what Brian Legg, David's father really like,

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<v Speaker 7>and what was the mother like? Characterized their life in

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<v Speaker 7>some of the characteristics of these people, and tell us

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<v Speaker 7>a little bit about their life.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, it's interesting that on one hand we get there.

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<v Speaker 6>In the book. I profile what David Legg said about

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<v Speaker 6>his own parents, particularly his father. He was quite critical,

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<v Speaker 6>saying that Brian had abused him and beaten him rather severely,

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<v Speaker 6>and that was way restrictive. Other sources tell me that

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<v Speaker 6>this was a very nice couple, that Brian Legg and

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<v Speaker 6>Jeanie were just terrific people. And when David subs equately

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<v Speaker 6>met and married a girl named Alicia La Flesh, Alicia

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<v Speaker 6>fell in love with Brian and Jeanie. She'd had she

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<v Speaker 6>had been abused in her own childhood and had suffered

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<v Speaker 6>terrible trauma with no love, and when she met Brian

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<v Speaker 6>and Jeannie, David's parents, she just she thought she was

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<v Speaker 6>in heaven with this wonderful couple. So we have two

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<v Speaker 6>very conflicting views of what Brian and Jeanie leg were.

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<v Speaker 7>Like, well, okay, you do have that, you mentioned that

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<v Speaker 7>that you go in the book and talk about that.

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<v Speaker 7>But you know that being given that Alicia comes from

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<v Speaker 7>a totally incredibly dysfunctional family, so she would be relieved

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<v Speaker 7>to find any kind of normalacy as compared to her

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<v Speaker 7>own family. That would be fair.

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<v Speaker 6>That's correct, Yes, that's fair.

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<v Speaker 7>Now tell us a little bit though about because I

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<v Speaker 7>found it very fascinating some of the things that some

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<v Speaker 7>of the characteristics of Brian and his son's relationships, some

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<v Speaker 7>of the things that he was strict about, and certainly

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<v Speaker 7>being in the military, it's not a big stretch for

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<v Speaker 7>somebody to be critical and beginning orders. So tell us

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<v Speaker 7>a little bit more about Brian Leg though, and then

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<v Speaker 7>especially the relationship, and then tell us about what characterized

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<v Speaker 7>some of their family life, including you know, the need

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<v Speaker 7>to move quite often in the career of Brian Lake.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, David and Brian did have some fractious relations between

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<v Speaker 6>them because David young, David was well, an odd child

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<v Speaker 6>in many ways, he was a clean freak. He'd wash

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<v Speaker 6>his hands frequently every day. His room was made up

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<v Speaker 6>perfectly unusual for young boys, and he he would he

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<v Speaker 6>would be a little defiant once in a while, and

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<v Speaker 6>as you say, Brian being a military man, exercise discipline

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<v Speaker 6>of the boy. At one point it was alleged that

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<v Speaker 6>he ran over David's bicycle deliberately as a punishment thing.

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<v Speaker 6>But again that that came from David later in later years.

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<v Speaker 6>So it's hard to know exactly just how problematical the

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<v Speaker 6>relationship was. But they they grew up and moved quite

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<v Speaker 6>frequently early on, a typical of military families. They moved

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<v Speaker 6>around a lot. And it's also been suggested that they

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<v Speaker 6>had some some financial management problems and that caused them

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<v Speaker 6>to move around. But finally they settled in h in

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<v Speaker 6>a beautiful home in uh in uh in northern California,

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<v Speaker 6>in an upscale district, and and they seemed to be

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<v Speaker 6>doing quite well there.

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<v Speaker 7>Now was there. What I found was interesting too, And

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<v Speaker 7>maybe you can clarify this how much came from from

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<v Speaker 7>the uh from David himself, and then that's questionable whether

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<v Speaker 7>that's true or not, or disingenuous or not. Tell us

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<v Speaker 7>what you did find for certain, about sort of the

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<v Speaker 7>sexual attitude that David experienced through Brian. What was Bryan

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<v Speaker 7>Legg's idea of sort of making his son a man?

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<v Speaker 7>And what did you find out was the difference between

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<v Speaker 7>what David had said and maybe what you had found

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<v Speaker 7>independently of sort of that characteristic of the family dynamic.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, David was later found to be let's say, sexually involved,

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<v Speaker 6>way young and a sex addict, he would later be called.

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<v Speaker 6>He blamed it on his parents, saying that they were

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<v Speaker 6>into pornography and that they did some strange things like

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<v Speaker 6>swinging and swapping. But again, it's hard to know just

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<v Speaker 6>how credible that is. In some cases, Brian was a

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<v Speaker 6>very good father. He took him to concerts even and

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<v Speaker 6>there's a there's a concert with one rock group that

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<v Speaker 6>you can look up on YouTube. Put the David and

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<v Speaker 6>Briand's name in and you can see that they were

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<v Speaker 6>actually at a concert and you can see them in

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<v Speaker 6>about the fourth or fifth row of the concert.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, yeah, I found it very interesting that some of

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<v Speaker 7>the things it seemed to be sort of contradictory behavior.

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<v Speaker 7>It seemed, even if you don't take David's word for

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<v Speaker 7>a lot of things where you talk about where the

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<v Speaker 7>son was probably disciplined quite heavily for what some people

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<v Speaker 7>might think of minor infraction. Yet he racked up and

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<v Speaker 7>you know, this is a few years ago, two thousand

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<v Speaker 7>dollars on a sex chat line and his father really

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<v Speaker 7>didn't discipline him for that. So tell us a little

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<v Speaker 7>bit about that incident. And yeah, you were talking about

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<v Speaker 7>taking him to a concert to So it really was

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<v Speaker 7>a guy that seemed to be very cool in some respects,

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<v Speaker 7>but in others at least there was that strong discipline.

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<v Speaker 6>Right, it's right, rather interesting. Twice in his lifetime we

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<v Speaker 6>know that David ran up big bills for telephone sex

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<v Speaker 6>calls to the sex private lines, once when he was

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<v Speaker 6>a youngster still live at home, and once later when

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<v Speaker 6>he was married to Alicia from Hawaii. Alicia found that

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<v Speaker 6>she had about a two thousand dollars bill from David's

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<v Speaker 6>calls to sex telephone numbers. But also it was alleged

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<v Speaker 6>by David that his father beat him severely, would would

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<v Speaker 6>force him into the when he had some minor infraction.

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<v Speaker 6>He'd be forced into the bedroom, take his pants off

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<v Speaker 6>and lie on the bed and be lashed with a belt.

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<v Speaker 6>He told a psychologist at one point that he had

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<v Speaker 6>scars there permanently, but interestingly enough, I asked Alicia, who

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<v Speaker 6>within knew David intimately, did you ever see any scars

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<v Speaker 6>in his back? She said no, his back was smooth

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<v Speaker 6>as anything.

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<v Speaker 7>Right right now, what was what was David's and Brian's

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<v Speaker 7>wife and David's mother? What was she like? What did

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<v Speaker 7>she have any problems? What was she like as a disciplineer?

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<v Speaker 7>And what was she like as a mother?

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<v Speaker 6>Genie was just a typical loving mother who had already

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<v Speaker 6>raised three children and raised David with loving care, just

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<v Speaker 6>as any mother would. And I found nothing controversy about

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<v Speaker 6>Jeanie's behavior.

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<v Speaker 7>Now, you also the other three children when you looked

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<v Speaker 7>into this as well, when you investigated what the fate

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<v Speaker 7>of those children? Not that it's empirical evidence, but what

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<v Speaker 7>was the outcome of those children? Just to give some

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<v Speaker 7>kind of credibility to that these people were, like you say,

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<v Speaker 7>pretty normal parents, and as a result, the other three

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<v Speaker 7>children tell us about their fate.

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<v Speaker 6>All three of the other children also had careers in

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<v Speaker 6>the Air Force and rose to the level of officers

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<v Speaker 6>captains and did quite well. Now there's some suggestion that

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<v Speaker 6>there was some problem between Brian Legg and one of

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<v Speaker 6>his stepdaughters, but I chose not to go into that

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<v Speaker 6>because I had no factual background, no empirical data to

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<v Speaker 6>support any between him and his daughter in law. But

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<v Speaker 6>they all turned out to be quite great kids and adults,

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<v Speaker 6>and the son, David's half brother, became a CEO in

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<v Speaker 6>a electronics firm.

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<v Speaker 7>Right now, tell us about David at about twenty years old.

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<v Speaker 7>Tell us what his life was like, what was his

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<v Speaker 7>career ambition, where was he going in life, and how

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<v Speaker 7>was he doing mentally and how was he just doing

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<v Speaker 7>socially well?

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<v Speaker 6>David was had some problems and didn't He chose not

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<v Speaker 6>to go to college after high school. Matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 6>he dropped out of high school for a while and

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<v Speaker 6>was living with his parents and just working at labor

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<v Speaker 6>temporary employment jobs and just kind of getting along and

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<v Speaker 6>spending way too much money. He used he once his

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<v Speaker 6>parents' credit cards and to buy a very expensive set

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<v Speaker 6>of drums he wants it made a great number of

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<v Speaker 6>other purchases that ran his parents into deep into debt. Now,

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<v Speaker 6>there was one other rather important incident when he was

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<v Speaker 6>in high school, and I believe in Michigan. He impregnated

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<v Speaker 6>a classmate and produced a son, but for most of

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<v Speaker 6>the years after that he denied that that was his son.

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<v Speaker 6>But that came. That will come up later in the book.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, we'll talk about that in a moment.

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<v Speaker 7>Sure. Now you also talked about you know, he just

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<v Speaker 7>racked up a lot of credit card debt, just to

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<v Speaker 7>be so the audience knows. He came by that honestly

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<v Speaker 7>because that was his parents. One of the sort of

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<v Speaker 7>weaknesses they had was racking up credit cards as well,

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<v Speaker 7>wasn't it.

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<v Speaker 6>That's correct?

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<v Speaker 7>Now.

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<v Speaker 6>The father, according to David, would go to the PX,

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<v Speaker 6>the post Exchange fair post Exchange, and by hundreds and

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<v Speaker 6>hundreds of dollars worth of groceries because he could get

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<v Speaker 6>it cheaper there. And David said, we I don't know

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<v Speaker 6>why we needed a hundred bottles of this, and then

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<v Speaker 6>twenty packages of that and freezers full of food. So

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<v Speaker 6>they lived the high life. They always lived very well,

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<v Speaker 6>had an expensive car and expensive homes, but seemed to

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<v Speaker 6>be on the verge of bankruptcy frequently.

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<v Speaker 7>Right now, tell us about David meeting his wife Alicia.

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<v Speaker 7>How old is David? And tell us how they met

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<v Speaker 7>and then we can go on to tell the story

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<v Speaker 7>of Alicia and her upbringing.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, fine, Yeah, David was a little younger, about a

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<v Speaker 6>year or so younger than Alicia, and they were both

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<v Speaker 6>working in a temp agency in the San Francisco Bay

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<v Speaker 6>area and Matt and Alicia just fell head over heels

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<v Speaker 6>with him because she'd had a pretty rough life herself,

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<v Speaker 6>and David was extremely charming and he could be that

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<v Speaker 6>way with most he over the years, describing as a

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<v Speaker 6>glib and very very charming. And he worked that charm

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<v Speaker 6>on Alicia and took her to his parents' home and

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<v Speaker 6>introduced him, and she just fell in love. And they

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<v Speaker 6>accepted her and treated extremely well, and she just fell

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<v Speaker 6>in love with him. And so let me let me

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<v Speaker 6>just jump forward now that how I came upon this book.

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<v Speaker 6>Usually I'm reading newspaper articles to find the subjects for

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<v Speaker 6>my books. But I had an email from Alicia La Flesh,

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<v Speaker 6>and she said, I have a compelling story to tell

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<v Speaker 6>and then a horrific thing that happened to the parents,

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<v Speaker 6>the in laws that I love so dearly. Would you

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<v Speaker 6>be interested? And so I met with Alisha and at

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<v Speaker 6>a restaurant, and she told me the entire story, and

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<v Speaker 6>that's where we went from there.

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<v Speaker 7>Wow, I should have asked that question first. That's amazing.

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00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.320
<v Speaker 7>That's well to talk about an unusual way to get

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<v Speaker 7>around as usually you get a call from an editor,

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<v Speaker 7>don't you do it? Not from the a main character

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<v Speaker 7>in the story.

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, sometimes it is from the editor and moral Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Round two, name something that's not.

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<v Speaker 3>Boring laundry, computer solitaire huh.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbu casino.

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<v Speaker 1>Chum.

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00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.519
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Chumba casino dot com as over one hundred

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00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>casino style games. Join today and play for free for

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00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chump chumbacasino dot

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00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:35.200
<v Speaker 2>com plusters the condition of the plus whats retails.

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<v Speaker 6>Often than not. It's from my own research, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>watching the newspapers, reading magazines, watching television and thinking, okay,

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<v Speaker 6>that looks like a pretty pretty compelling story in today's world.

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<v Speaker 6>You better get onto it very early, though, because if

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<v Speaker 6>it's if it's a big, high profile story or a

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00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.279
<v Speaker 6>story with some really interesting uh uh sidelines to it,

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<v Speaker 6>uh you you you check it out and you find

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00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:01.039
<v Speaker 6>two or three other authors already on to so. But

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<v Speaker 6>this one was pretty pretty nice because it hadn't been

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<v Speaker 6>explored by anyone. And Alicia Alicia, but her name at

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<v Speaker 6>the time was Alicia la Flesh. And when I got

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00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.799
<v Speaker 6>that email, I have to tell you, I was almost

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<v Speaker 6>deleted it instantly, but I'm glad I went on with

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00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.599
<v Speaker 6>him because it turned up to be a very good story.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it sounds like alias for a professional first, it

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<v Speaker 7>does absolutely now tell us about David's career as well

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<v Speaker 7>about in the military.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, David, after Alicia and David got married, or just

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<v Speaker 6>before they were married, I believe that David decided he

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00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.400
<v Speaker 6>was going to have a military career like his dad did,

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<v Speaker 6>and he was. His dad wanted him to go in

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<v Speaker 6>the Air Force, of course, because that's where he had been.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 6>And and David told Alicia he went in and applied,

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<v Speaker 6>and he aced all the exams and then he was

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<v Speaker 6>going to become a pilot. And uh. But this is

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00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.920
<v Speaker 6>remarkable since he had men finished high school and the

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00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.240
<v Speaker 6>Air Force is pretty selective about that and have some

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00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:06.920
<v Speaker 6>pretty stringent exams to screen these people. So again, it

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00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.720
<v Speaker 6>probably wasn't entirely true. And so he wound up enlisting

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<v Speaker 6>as a private in the United States Army.

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<v Speaker 7>Right now, this is I'm sorry for mix, you know,

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00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.759
<v Speaker 7>just going off the chronological order here too. They had

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<v Speaker 7>been engaged. The family loved her, she loved them, so

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<v Speaker 7>they have they professed their love and then said they

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<v Speaker 7>made plans for engagement, and then he says, jeez, maybe

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00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.640
<v Speaker 7>I should go into the military. Is that how that works?

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<v Speaker 7>So tell us how that works.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, he did join the military and as a private,

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00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:43.640
<v Speaker 6>and then they were married in the Legs home in

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00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.240
<v Speaker 6>the Bay area of San Francisco. The marriage ceremony took

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00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.960
<v Speaker 6>place there and it was a very festive thing. And

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<v Speaker 6>then their plan was for Alicia to stay in that

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<v Speaker 6>home with her in laws while David completed basic training

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<v Speaker 6>in Georgia and then wherever he would sign, as it

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<v Speaker 6>turned out to be in Hawaii, a wonderful assignment at

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<v Speaker 6>scolpvict in Hawaii, and then she would join him there.

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<v Speaker 6>And that's exactly what happened.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, So tell us what's happening in the idyllic life

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<v Speaker 7>of David leg and his wife Alicia. After all of this,

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<v Speaker 7>you say, he gets an assignment to go to Hawaii,

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<v Speaker 7>He's accepted in the military. Looks like his wife, his

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00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.880
<v Speaker 7>life is right on track. Tell us what's happening behind

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00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:29.519
<v Speaker 7>the scenes or if there's any cracks to this little veneer.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, Alicia is absolutely thrilled. My god, you get to

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<v Speaker 6>go to the paradise of Hawaii and live there with

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<v Speaker 6>her new husband, and the whole world is going to

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00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:42.720
<v Speaker 6>be glorious. They go to Hawaiian he's assigned to Schofield Barracks.

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<v Speaker 6>And I like that part because I love the story

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00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.559
<v Speaker 6>James Jones row from Here to Eternity that was made

336
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.559
<v Speaker 6>into the classic movie and involved with a loser named

337
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.279
<v Speaker 6>robert E. Lee Pruitt played by Montgomery Cliff in the movie,

338
00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.799
<v Speaker 6>and so I could see some parallels between Roberty Lee

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00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:05.319
<v Speaker 6>Prewit and David. Anyway, they're living there, they they her hurricane,

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00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:09.160
<v Speaker 6>and Niki comes through and just rips the island and

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00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.519
<v Speaker 6>tears up the apartment where they live. But that turned

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00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.359
<v Speaker 6>out to be a minor thing compared to the way

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<v Speaker 6>their lives started developing. David became an absolute control freak,

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00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.839
<v Speaker 6>not allowing Alicia to have any friends, not allowing her

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00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.039
<v Speaker 6>to go anywhere, not allowing her to use the new

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00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.519
<v Speaker 6>Karri bought, demanding that she cleaned the house in the

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00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:34.319
<v Speaker 6>way he thought thought it could be cleaned. She she

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00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.640
<v Speaker 6>had to vacuum the rug exactly as he thought, with

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00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.599
<v Speaker 6>spacing between the lines as he saw. She became a

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00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:46.799
<v Speaker 6>slave and had no She was horrified that all of

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<v Speaker 6>a sudden, her idyllic life turned to a nightmare.

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<v Speaker 7>Now, how did she deal with this? At the beginning,

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<v Speaker 7>you say that she sees as the dramatic transformation? Did

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00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:00.920
<v Speaker 7>it have any kind of us said one time, he's

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00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:05.440
<v Speaker 7>hyper sexual. Actually, what was happening in their in their

356
00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:09.400
<v Speaker 7>in their relationship otherwise in and what was her reaction?

357
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.480
<v Speaker 7>What did she do in response to this drastic change

358
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.000
<v Speaker 7>in behavior?

359
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:17.960
<v Speaker 6>Well, ironically, with David was hyper sexual, very interested in sex.

360
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.559
<v Speaker 6>But just soon after their marriage he completely turned away

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00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.039
<v Speaker 6>from sex. She she couldn't understand it. She would just

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00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.559
<v Speaker 6>begg him, please just touch me sometimes, but he was

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00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:29.799
<v Speaker 6>totally disinterested. He was more interested in his cars and

364
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:35.799
<v Speaker 6>uh and his Hi Fi equipment, his drums. And they

365
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.680
<v Speaker 6>got in financial difficulty right away, of course, because of

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00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.079
<v Speaker 6>Private's pay. It wasn't very big, and he was spending

367
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.319
<v Speaker 6>money hand over fist, and so it was getting rough.

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00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.039
<v Speaker 6>And she didn't understand also that he was carrying on.

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<v Speaker 6>He bought her a new computer, but he she didn't

370
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 6>know that he was using that computer to have sexual

371
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.400
<v Speaker 6>contact with women all over the place, including the the

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00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.920
<v Speaker 6>mother of his child from high school days. Now, so

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<v Speaker 6>I proceed because the next step is really important.

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 6>One day, David comes home and he says, oh, I

376
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.880
<v Speaker 6>have to go on a special mission in Savilian clothes,

377
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:15.160
<v Speaker 6>and his buddy's with him, and they're dressed in cities

378
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.720
<v Speaker 6>and I'll be gone several weeks and it's highly secret,

379
00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:19.640
<v Speaker 6>so I can't tell you what it's about, but I'll

380
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 6>be gone, okay. And Alicia's almost relieved because Atlasa's gonna

381
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.160
<v Speaker 6>have some time away from his restrictive control.

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00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:26.960
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

383
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:29.359
<v Speaker 6>But a few days later, she gets a phone call

384
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:31.720
<v Speaker 6>from someone in Chicago and says, do you know where

385
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 6>your husband is? Well, of course they do. He's on leave.

386
00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:38.039
<v Speaker 6>He's on a special mission. No, he's here at Chicago

387
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.400
<v Speaker 6>and he's taking my wife away and her child and

388
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.400
<v Speaker 6>I'm going to kill them both. And Alicia is horrified.

389
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.319
<v Speaker 6>What is going on? Well, eventually he finds out that

390
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.680
<v Speaker 6>David is going to Chicago to rescue the mother of

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00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:54.559
<v Speaker 6>his child from high school days and take her away

392
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.960
<v Speaker 6>from her abusive husband. And she's just sick, she's horrified.

393
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.920
<v Speaker 6>And she finally gets in contact with David by phone,

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00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.920
<v Speaker 6>and he suggests that, oh, why don't I just bring

395
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 6>her and the child here in Hawaii and we can

396
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.160
<v Speaker 6>all all four live together. No, no, that's not going to.

397
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:15.279
<v Speaker 7>Work, right, Yeah, So how does how does Alisha respond

398
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.839
<v Speaker 7>to this incredible news? What she do next?

399
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, Alicia's she's she doesn't know what to do and

400
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.559
<v Speaker 6>and and David comes back without the wife and the

401
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 6>child and uh, and they they struggle along for a while,

402
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.160
<v Speaker 6>but eventually it's just not going to work. So Alisa

403
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.640
<v Speaker 6>says it, our marriage is over, and she and David

404
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.240
<v Speaker 6>fly back to the Bay Area for her to go

405
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.240
<v Speaker 6>to live with her her her mother, who's a real

406
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.160
<v Speaker 6>problem and uh, and the marriage is over. And then

407
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:49.039
<v Speaker 6>David goes back to Hawaii. He's he's redeployed finally to

408
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 6>Fort Hood, Texas. And from there things get worse and worse.

409
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 7>When does when does Alicia find out about the just

410
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.759
<v Speaker 7>add insult injury, about the phone sex number in eighteen

411
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:01.279
<v Speaker 7>high dollar abillity racked up?

412
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:06.119
<v Speaker 6>Well, eventually she started finding out before she left Hawaii,

413
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.319
<v Speaker 6>which he's off on duty, and suddenly she starts getting

414
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.000
<v Speaker 6>all these things. Oh, I know he was unforgotten. He

415
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:16.599
<v Speaker 6>was redeployed while he's in Hawaii. He was sent to

416
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.759
<v Speaker 6>Haiti during that special mission that his unit went to

417
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.839
<v Speaker 6>in a crisis in Haiti, and during that time, all

418
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 6>of the male accumulated at Schofield Arts was sent to her.

419
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.319
<v Speaker 6>And she had all these horrific discoveries of his communications

420
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.240
<v Speaker 6>with other women, his overspending, his telephone bills to sex lines,

421
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 6>and all of that just finally brooked the marriage apart.

422
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:47.880
<v Speaker 7>Now, so they're separated. How does he respond to this separation?

423
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.640
<v Speaker 7>What does he say to her? Is he violent? Is

424
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.079
<v Speaker 7>he suicidal? How does he respond?

425
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.039
<v Speaker 6>No, he just goes about he's in Fort Hood, Texas

426
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:57.680
<v Speaker 6>now And then she goes back and lives in the

427
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:02.440
<v Speaker 6>Bay Area with her mother, and David is so concerned

428
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.200
<v Speaker 6>that he decides to he's like other soldiers. Aforehood goes

429
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 6>across the border to war Is, where a lot of

430
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.400
<v Speaker 6>fun is available, and he meets a fourteen year old

431
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:15.599
<v Speaker 6>girl there. He's about twenty three at this time, and

432
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 6>he falls in love with a little Kimberly from War

433
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:25.720
<v Speaker 6>Is and marries her before getting never having been divorced

434
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.799
<v Speaker 6>by a little from Alicia.

435
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.599
<v Speaker 7>It's incredible, so you talk about in your book, even

436
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:35.400
<v Speaker 7>though she's fourteen and he's ten years older. How does

437
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.319
<v Speaker 7>the family react to this union.

438
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.359
<v Speaker 6>Well, the family comes to Texas and tries to talk

439
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 6>him out of the marriage, but as a matter of fact,

440
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:47.480
<v Speaker 6>he is preparing for a big church wedding and war

441
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.079
<v Speaker 6>is but they talk him into out of it and

442
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.440
<v Speaker 6>drive him away minutes before she was supposed to walk

443
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:58.079
<v Speaker 6>down the aisle with him. But then they hope that

444
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:00.680
<v Speaker 6>everything's all solved. The parents go back to their home

445
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.880
<v Speaker 6>and David goes back to Warriors and brings her across

446
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:07.079
<v Speaker 6>the border. The young girl across the border with her

447
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.480
<v Speaker 6>mother and with her mother's permission, and marries her and

448
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.279
<v Speaker 6>a civil ceremony in El Paso.

449
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.160
<v Speaker 7>So it's incredible that her family is okay with the

450
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:19.720
<v Speaker 7>union and basically facilitates this thing happening.

451
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 6>Amazingly enough, that's true. They accepted this twenty two year

452
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.799
<v Speaker 6>old soldier taking their fourteen year old girl away. David

453
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.680
<v Speaker 6>takes her then to eventually take her to Phoenix, where

454
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.000
<v Speaker 6>the parents have moved to from the Bay Area, and

455
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.519
<v Speaker 6>they bought a very nice home in the outskirts of Phoenix,

456
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.440
<v Speaker 6>and David takes her there and then they get an apartment.

457
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 6>And then shortly after that, the horrible thing happens that

458
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.519
<v Speaker 6>someone goes into the home of David and Jeanie LaGG

459
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.160
<v Speaker 6>and shoots them to death and takes the beautiful, expensive

460
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.920
<v Speaker 6>diamond ring from her finger and all the credit cards

461
00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.039
<v Speaker 6>and cash and runs away.

462
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.920
<v Speaker 7>Now, what I think is important that we sort of

463
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:05.880
<v Speaker 7>skipped upon, skipped over, is that one thing, and we'll

464
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:07.440
<v Speaker 7>just go back to. I think it might be important

465
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:14.079
<v Speaker 7>is that Brian Legg, being in the military, was proud

466
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.200
<v Speaker 7>of his work or his stay in the military, and

467
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.599
<v Speaker 7>so he talked to David at times about assuming someone

468
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.920
<v Speaker 7>else's identity. And I think it's important in this case

469
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:27.839
<v Speaker 7>as we proceed with the story. So tell us a

470
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 7>little bit about that, because I think it's a very ironic,

471
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.359
<v Speaker 7>very ironic fact given what happens after.

472
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.319
<v Speaker 6>That's a good point. Dan Brian Well, during his service

473
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.200
<v Speaker 6>years was in special Forces that did some undercover operations,

474
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:45.599
<v Speaker 6>and he tells David at one point how easy it

475
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:50.359
<v Speaker 6>is to steal someone's identity. He illustrates it by saying,

476
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 6>you can walk into a bar and strike up a

477
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.920
<v Speaker 6>conversation with a total stranger, and if you know the

478
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.079
<v Speaker 6>right question to ask and how to do it, you

479
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 6>can have everything about that man, that person in the

480
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 6>bar and steal their identity with it in a very

481
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.200
<v Speaker 6>short amount of time. And David is pretty fascinated with.

482
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 4>This, right.

483
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.799
<v Speaker 7>So that's a young kid. So then later on, now

484
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.440
<v Speaker 7>when he was in the last time he was in

485
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:18.359
<v Speaker 7>the military, he did meet someone named Darren malloy. So

486
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.880
<v Speaker 7>tell us about this meeting, and course we don't see

487
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:22.680
<v Speaker 7>why it's important.

488
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:28.240
<v Speaker 6>Later, while David is at Forthood, he needs transportation to

489
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:31.960
<v Speaker 6>go over to Warris he's girlfriend, so he buys a

490
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:35.839
<v Speaker 6>car from another soldier and takes it across the border

491
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:37.680
<v Speaker 6>and leaves it there, and the other soldier is stuck

492
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.759
<v Speaker 6>with no money. And this happened three times. He brought

493
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.480
<v Speaker 6>three cars from other soldiers that he never paid for.

494
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.200
<v Speaker 6>And finally he's caught up and he faces the company commander,

495
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:53.720
<v Speaker 6>who places him in another barracks on honor not to

496
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:58.559
<v Speaker 6>go anywhere, and he's roomed with another soldier named Darren molloy.

497
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:04.359
<v Speaker 7>Now, how did they get along and how did things.

498
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:06.160
<v Speaker 7>He was just there for a few days, But how

499
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.839
<v Speaker 7>did what was the relationship like between the two men?

500
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:14.640
<v Speaker 6>It was fine. Darren malloy would later say that, you know,

501
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 6>he thought this kid was kind of weird, but you know,

502
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:20.160
<v Speaker 6>he was okay and they just chatted and uh. And

503
00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:26.640
<v Speaker 6>then Darren molloy was reassigned elsewhere. And before his reassignment overseas,

504
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 6>he goes to his California home and discovers that he's

505
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.759
<v Speaker 6>some of his identification cards are missing.

506
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:35.880
<v Speaker 7>Did he put any what did he conclude from that?

507
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.519
<v Speaker 7>Did he have any suspicions or he just what?

508
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.440
<v Speaker 6>Did he at first? Not at all. He just thought

509
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.319
<v Speaker 6>he'd lost them. And he's deployed on a special mission

510
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.519
<v Speaker 6>in a first at Iraq and in the Saudi Arabia,

511
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 6>and so he just accepts that he's lost that and

512
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 6>hopes that hope that nobody's spending his money right.

513
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:02.960
<v Speaker 7>So now let's get to so Alicia and David are

514
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:05.759
<v Speaker 7>living where, and what are their financial and what's their

515
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:09.480
<v Speaker 7>financial situation? And tell us the year that this we're

516
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 7>talking about here.

517
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:13.000
<v Speaker 6>Let's say I believe this is all in nineteen ninety six,

518
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 6>and then by this time, of course, Alisha and David

519
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.599
<v Speaker 6>are split up. Alisha has gone back and started a

520
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:24.920
<v Speaker 6>new life in the Bay Area and David's was in

521
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.680
<v Speaker 6>Fort Hood. But then he decides to take his little

522
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:31.680
<v Speaker 6>girlfriend to his little wife, which is an illegal marriage,

523
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:35.200
<v Speaker 6>to Phoenix area and live there, and he deserts from

524
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:38.839
<v Speaker 6>the army. So now he's not only a criminal having

525
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.720
<v Speaker 6>fraudulently stolen those three cars, but he's now a deserter

526
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 6>from the army.

527
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:50.079
<v Speaker 7>Okay, so what's the what's his relationship with his parents

528
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 7>at that time? David Lake with his parents, Well.

529
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.559
<v Speaker 6>He's of course borrowing from them and getting everything he

530
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:59.319
<v Speaker 6>can from them, but he gets enough money to rent

531
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:04.839
<v Speaker 6>an apartment not far from your parents' home. And he's

532
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.880
<v Speaker 6>twice two or three diverse jobs, but he only lasts

533
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 6>a few days on each one, and he's spending money

534
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.279
<v Speaker 6>like mad, and suddenly he's pretty desperate for some way

535
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:20.079
<v Speaker 6>to pay for his apartment for all the other expenses

536
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.119
<v Speaker 6>he's incurred, and he needs money very badly.

537
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:27.279
<v Speaker 7>Now, you talk about one particular episode that I think

538
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:31.039
<v Speaker 7>is interesting given his state of mind at certain times,

539
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:34.000
<v Speaker 7>and you talk about a tantrum in an argument with

540
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:37.160
<v Speaker 7>his family where a tantrum after he has a confrontation

541
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:38.559
<v Speaker 7>or argument with his family.

542
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.599
<v Speaker 3>Wait, Lucky Landslips. You can get lucky just about anywhere.

543
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:46.279
<v Speaker 4>It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the

544
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:48.119
<v Speaker 4>weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here

545
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:51.240
<v Speaker 4>a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that.

546
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:53.759
<v Speaker 4>It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I

547
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:56.079
<v Speaker 4>suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right,

548
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.319
<v Speaker 4>and start getting lucky.

549
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 3>Pay for free at Lucky Landslipestuck. Are you feeling lucky?

550
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 3>No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus.

551
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.599
<v Speaker 3>Terms and conditions apply. See website for details.

552
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 7>Tell us a little bit about that, because it is

553
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:13.759
<v Speaker 7>very important, I think to the story. That's why you

554
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:14.440
<v Speaker 7>included it.

555
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, this happened actually before let's see. I believe it's

556
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 6>just before they went to why or want to leave.

557
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.079
<v Speaker 6>I can't remember exactly, but Alicia had never seen David

558
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 6>act out anything before. He's always very calm and just demanding,

559
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.799
<v Speaker 6>but calm. But at one point he gets into an

560
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.759
<v Speaker 6>argument with his father and he goes into the bathroom

561
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.039
<v Speaker 6>and for an hour he's in there, kicking and screaming

562
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.480
<v Speaker 6>and banging on the walls and throwing things, and everyone

563
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.559
<v Speaker 6>has just absolutely stunned. And then eventually he walks out

564
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.000
<v Speaker 6>and it's like nothing ever happened. Everything is just fine,

565
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:55.160
<v Speaker 6>everything's back to normal, and she is just amazed to

566
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:59.279
<v Speaker 6>see this kind of behavior from this perfect man she's married.

567
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 7>Right now, You say that just be prior to this

568
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 7>discovery of the two Brian and Jeanie are dead in

569
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.119
<v Speaker 7>their home, and we'll get you to get into the

570
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:15.160
<v Speaker 7>graphic detail of what actually was discovered and who discovered it.

571
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 7>You say they were desperate for money. What happens just

572
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:24.480
<v Speaker 7>prior to this event happening? Say it's ironic too, because

573
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:28.559
<v Speaker 7>this is Wednesday, June fifteenth, and your book is really

574
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 7>set in around the same time, just prior to Father's Day,

575
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.519
<v Speaker 7>which is coming up on Sunday as well. So tell

576
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 7>us what happens just prior to this discovery of these

577
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:38.440
<v Speaker 7>people being murdered in their home.

578
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, it's pretty sharp of your Dan. I hadn't realized

579
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:42.799
<v Speaker 6>what we are talking about all the anniversary of the thing,

580
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:50.400
<v Speaker 6>aren't we right now? Well, David and you're there, Okay,

581
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 6>thought i'd lost you. No, David and his little girlfriend

582
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 6>had gone at Kemmy had gone to have dinner with

583
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.720
<v Speaker 6>his David's parents, said Brian a genie, and they had

584
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:05.240
<v Speaker 6>a night. They went out shopping with them all day,

585
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.679
<v Speaker 6>first to Pennies and various other places were foursome shopping.

586
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 6>Then they went back to the house for dinner, and

587
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:17.719
<v Speaker 6>then David and his little girlfriend leave, and that very

588
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:21.239
<v Speaker 6>evening someone enters the house and shoots Brian Jeanie to death,

589
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.119
<v Speaker 6>takes the ring and those bodies lie in that hot

590
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:31.320
<v Speaker 6>It's in June. It's the hottest heck in Phoenix, Arizona,

591
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.519
<v Speaker 6>and those bodies lie in there six days. Meanwhile, Jeanie's

592
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.519
<v Speaker 6>son by the previous marriage, who lives in Tucson, Arizona,

593
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 6>is trying to contact his mother and father stepfather, and

594
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.000
<v Speaker 6>he's trying for almost a week, and finally he and

595
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.400
<v Speaker 6>his wife decided, gee, we better go, and they drive

596
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:56.440
<v Speaker 6>up to Phoenix to check on him, and with a cousin,

597
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 6>they go to the house and the cousin goes in

598
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.159
<v Speaker 6>the house and discovers these these bodies that have been

599
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:06.320
<v Speaker 6>in the heat for a week and is horrified at

600
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 6>the awful odor and uh and what they see. What

601
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.360
<v Speaker 6>he sees in the house, and he advises the son,

602
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:13.960
<v Speaker 6>don't even go in there and look at him. It's

603
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:14.599
<v Speaker 6>too horrible.

604
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 7>Right now, what do what do police find? And how

605
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:20.760
<v Speaker 7>was how was the couple murdered? And just tell us

606
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.000
<v Speaker 7>what they thought was unusual as the with the blanket

607
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.320
<v Speaker 7>and and the twine.

608
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 6>Uh, the killer had laid put a blanket over the

609
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.119
<v Speaker 6>bloody bodies, and then uh, dragging another blanket over them,

610
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:35.800
<v Speaker 6>and even a third one, and then taking a ball

611
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:40.519
<v Speaker 6>of twine and lashed these blankets over these the dead bodies.

612
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.000
<v Speaker 6>And then the house had been pretty thoroughly ransacked, apparently

613
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 6>in search of checks, credit cards and whatever.

614
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.519
<v Speaker 7>Now, uh, what was that? The other thing I was

615
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.039
<v Speaker 7>going to say is that they were what were they shot?

616
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 7>And how many times would they show? Where were they shot? Where?

617
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 7>How were they how were they murder?

618
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.400
<v Speaker 6>Both of them were shot in the head and about

619
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 6>I think five five bullet wounds between the two and

620
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.159
<v Speaker 6>three to Brian I think, and two to Genie, and

621
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:11.199
<v Speaker 6>both of them shot in the head.

622
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.960
<v Speaker 7>Now, what did the police find in terms of evidence,

623
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 7>late prints, casings, bullet casings, What evidence was there? What

624
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.800
<v Speaker 7>obvious evidence was there immediately at that crime scene, at

625
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:25.679
<v Speaker 7>the league's home.

626
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:29.840
<v Speaker 6>Well, this was the big problem. Dan, the detective of

627
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:35.440
<v Speaker 6>Ron Jones and Ken Hansen were the chief detectives on

628
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 6>this case. And in searching, they found virtually no forensic evidence.

629
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:46.159
<v Speaker 6>They found a kitchen glove that they hoped would be

630
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:52.360
<v Speaker 6>fingerprints on it. They found one bullet had missed apparently

631
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.800
<v Speaker 6>and gone through a potted plan into an adjacent wall,

632
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.039
<v Speaker 6>and they were managed to recover that bullet. But they

633
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:02.559
<v Speaker 6>found no gun, They found no usable fingerprints, they found

634
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.679
<v Speaker 6>no DNA. It was really a frustrating case for them

635
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:14.800
<v Speaker 6>to research. And eventually the leads to to solve this

636
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:18.559
<v Speaker 6>case came from tracing the use of the legs credit.

637
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:23.599
<v Speaker 7>Cards right now they did. You Know what I thought

638
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.079
<v Speaker 7>was interesting too, is how thorough they were they did

639
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.079
<v Speaker 7>the process called DPL they did. They had a couple

640
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:33.519
<v Speaker 7>of really a couple of experts in this basically, uh

641
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.280
<v Speaker 7>so to be able to do this so uh they

642
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 7>did every effort in order to be able to find

643
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 7>any evidence, that any trace evidence at all. And it's

644
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.559
<v Speaker 7>interesting later when they do match up one of the

645
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:49.719
<v Speaker 7>latent prints on the what they find, So tell us

646
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.360
<v Speaker 7>how police proceed, Well.

647
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.840
<v Speaker 6>They're extremely thorough and they really want to solve this case.

648
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 6>And and they work long, long hours and say they

649
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:01.840
<v Speaker 6>do the E D p L which is a special

650
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:06.159
<v Speaker 6>process to lift prints from the footprints or fingerprints from

651
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:10.599
<v Speaker 6>the floor. Uh they uh, they take the glove, they

652
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.880
<v Speaker 6>find a pepsi can and get prints from They did

653
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:17.199
<v Speaker 6>find a latent print on a pepsi can and uh,

654
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 6>that's the only hope they had for any prints. But uh,

655
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.199
<v Speaker 6>what they what they really began to do was to search.

656
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.320
<v Speaker 6>They began researching the credit cards through the credit card

657
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.360
<v Speaker 6>companies and finding that expenditures have been made in Hawaii

658
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:37.320
<v Speaker 6>and and and even locally in Phoenix. They had credit

659
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.880
<v Speaker 6>cards have used to book a plane flights and a

660
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 6>local hotel and purchase of luggage on uh. And then

661
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:48.800
<v Speaker 6>they traced it to a car rental in Hawaii. So

662
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.800
<v Speaker 6>it was the financial trail that gave them some hope

663
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:56.320
<v Speaker 6>that they could finally trace down who did this. But

664
00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:00.760
<v Speaker 6>even then they had they faced the question was the

665
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.960
<v Speaker 6>person using these credit cards? Was this the killer or

666
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 6>had somebody thrown that had the killer thrown away a

667
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:11.039
<v Speaker 6>bill fole with cards and someone found that and was

668
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.559
<v Speaker 6>using him. So even though they had the leads through

669
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.320
<v Speaker 6>the financial transactions, they still weren't sure they were on

670
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:21.440
<v Speaker 6>the trail of the killer. Now, what was really interesting

671
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:26.440
<v Speaker 6>that they they began to see that someone named Darren

672
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.360
<v Speaker 6>molloy was using these credit cards.

673
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:33.800
<v Speaker 7>Yes, so that's very interesting. Now, so they contact the

674
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:38.119
<v Speaker 7>military looking for two people. And so not only are

675
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:41.519
<v Speaker 7>they looking for David Lake, the military is they're asking

676
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.079
<v Speaker 7>the military to assist him in Maloy as well. Isn't

677
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:45.440
<v Speaker 7>that true?

678
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.559
<v Speaker 6>That's true, and it's kind of it's kind of irritating

679
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.760
<v Speaker 6>to these two detectors because the military seemed to be

680
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:57.679
<v Speaker 6>dragging their feet. They can't seem to find Darren molloy

681
00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:59.159
<v Speaker 6>or David Legg.

682
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:03.239
<v Speaker 7>And you're saying too, it seemed to the detectives that

683
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.760
<v Speaker 7>they weren't too anxious to look for these people either.

684
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.199
<v Speaker 7>It didn't seem to be much of our priority despite

685
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.199
<v Speaker 7>this murder investigation.

686
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.320
<v Speaker 6>That's correct. It was so puddling to them. But what

687
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:18.840
<v Speaker 6>they eventually found that Darren malloy had been sent overseas

688
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.880
<v Speaker 6>to Saudi Arabia on a highly secretive mission. And so

689
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.880
<v Speaker 6>the military wasn't going to tell a couple of detectives

690
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 6>and Phoenix about that, and that they also had a

691
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.960
<v Speaker 6>deserter on their hands, and they didn't particularly what admit

692
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.239
<v Speaker 6>that we can't find him because he's a deserter.

693
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 7>Right, so they were looking for They had questioned other

694
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 7>people in the family, obviously other members of the family,

695
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:44.559
<v Speaker 7>but the person that they hadn't been able to contact,

696
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:46.920
<v Speaker 7>and the brother had said he hadn't had contact with

697
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:52.440
<v Speaker 7>David since the previous Thanksgiving. So they were searching for

698
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.480
<v Speaker 7>David Lake. But at that point, what did police have

699
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.199
<v Speaker 7>in terms of evidence, and well, who was their likely suspect,

700
00:40:58.239 --> 00:40:59.119
<v Speaker 7>if anyone.

701
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.400
<v Speaker 6>Suspect at this point was Darren Molloy, but they couldn't

702
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:06.880
<v Speaker 6>find him and so but eventually then they began to

703
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 6>see that a car had been rented in Hawaii in

704
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:14.199
<v Speaker 6>the name of Brian Legg, that the victim, and then

705
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 6>now they began to suspect Okay, wait a minute, David

706
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:21.119
<v Speaker 6>leg is missing. Someone is using his h his credit

707
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:26.440
<v Speaker 6>card in Hawaii and signing Brian Legg's name. Maybe David

708
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:28.039
<v Speaker 6>is involved in this thing somehow.

709
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:33.360
<v Speaker 7>Now, when did they find out about the the the

710
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:36.960
<v Speaker 7>apartment on forty eighth Street, and who that's and and

711
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.039
<v Speaker 7>who that's who had rented that apartment. When does that happen.

712
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, through through through the name of Malloy. They they

713
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 6>traced it the Malloy had rented in his in A

714
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.400
<v Speaker 6>young girl named Kim had in Cecilia, I believe they

715
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.920
<v Speaker 6>were calling her, had rented an apartment on forty eighth

716
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:02.320
<v Speaker 6>Street in Phoenix, UH, a few miles from the leg home.

717
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:06.079
<v Speaker 6>And so they went there and they found uniforms but

718
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 6>for Darren molloy, but also for David Legg and other

719
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.719
<v Speaker 6>things that led to David Legg. So now they're even

720
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.840
<v Speaker 6>more suspicious that David Legg the Sun might very well

721
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:22.360
<v Speaker 6>be involved in this. But is David leg the killer

722
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.840
<v Speaker 6>or is he just spending the money? Is Darren malloy

723
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:28.760
<v Speaker 6>the killer or is he spending the money? They don't

724
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:29.800
<v Speaker 6>know yet.

725
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:33.119
<v Speaker 7>Now I think it's important too, is that I want

726
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.199
<v Speaker 7>to make sure that the audience knows too, that the

727
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:39.719
<v Speaker 7>military didn't really tell the detectives. Listen, this guy's on

728
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.320
<v Speaker 7>special missions. That's why we can't tell you where he is.

729
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 7>So the police were in the dark at the same time.

730
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:49.480
<v Speaker 7>So as things start looking more towards the possibility of

731
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:54.679
<v Speaker 7>David Legg being the perpetrator, they really didn't know because

732
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:57.079
<v Speaker 7>the military wasn't being so forthright either, was they.

733
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 6>That's correct, Yeah, they weren't being fourth right, and they

734
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:06.119
<v Speaker 6>had their reasons, of course. But what eventually developed was

735
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:11.119
<v Speaker 6>the detectives kept after the airline companies to say, to

736
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:15.440
<v Speaker 6>see if they had the flights scheduled from Hawaii in

737
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:19.119
<v Speaker 6>the name of Darren molloy, David Leg or Kimberly, and

738
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:25.679
<v Speaker 6>eventually they were notified at the last second that two

739
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.239
<v Speaker 6>of these people were on a plane coming from Hawaii

740
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.159
<v Speaker 6>to Phoenix, I mean to La to Los Angeles, and boy,

741
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:34.599
<v Speaker 6>these two detectives had to scramble like man at the

742
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:38.119
<v Speaker 6>last second. It's it's really an exciting moment. It's the car.

743
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 7>Race in my book that the plane race.

744
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, tried, tried to get there, and they managed to

745
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:48.559
<v Speaker 6>arrive at Lax within minutes of the arrival of the

746
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.519
<v Speaker 6>plane from Hawaii, and they boarded the plane and led

747
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.199
<v Speaker 6>David Leg and his little fifteen year old girl off

748
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:58.159
<v Speaker 6>of that plane and arrested them.

749
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:00.559
<v Speaker 7>Now, the first thing is that it seemed to be

750
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:05.000
<v Speaker 7>normal strategy that you would choose to separate them and

751
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.719
<v Speaker 7>then speak to the girl first because she might be

752
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.000
<v Speaker 7>the easier person to nail down in terms of lies

753
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 7>of what they already knew and and get to see

754
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 7>get her perspective and possibly get her to confess right

755
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 7>off the hop. But what was in the two people's

756
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.519
<v Speaker 7>David and his girlfriend wife at what was in their

757
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.800
<v Speaker 7>bags that was very revealing to police? And what did

758
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:30.800
<v Speaker 7>they conclude as a result.

759
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:34.559
<v Speaker 6>Well, they found the credit cards that they had been

760
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.599
<v Speaker 6>taken from Brandon Jeanie. They found a one thing is

761
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:41.960
<v Speaker 6>really great. They found a video camera which David had

762
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:45.760
<v Speaker 6>been taking on their their honeymoon in Hawaii, of some

763
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.920
<v Speaker 6>pictures of his little promiscuous little bride and doing some

764
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:55.000
<v Speaker 6>bizarre things. But in interviewing them at LAX, both both

765
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.000
<v Speaker 6>David and Kimmy were pretty pretty well if their mouth shut,

766
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.920
<v Speaker 6>they dropped the few hints but not very much. And

767
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:05.199
<v Speaker 6>kimberly remarkably for you know, by this time she's only

768
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 6>fifteen years old, she's she's really clever at dealing with

769
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:10.639
<v Speaker 6>two police officers.

770
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:15.280
<v Speaker 7>So the thing is is that police already have a

771
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:19.280
<v Speaker 7>pretty good idea based on some phone records, and so

772
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:26.199
<v Speaker 7>they Ken Hansen is the person designated to question her,

773
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.239
<v Speaker 7>and so how does he proceed? What does he get

774
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:31.079
<v Speaker 7>from her? Does she lie, does she tell the truth?

775
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:33.760
<v Speaker 7>How does she respond? He said, her demeanor's pretty good.

776
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:37.280
<v Speaker 7>She's not really rattled or shaken. But tell us what

777
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.079
<v Speaker 7>he deduces after a certain amount of questions, And what

778
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 7>are the kind of questions he asks her.

779
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:46.639
<v Speaker 6>Well, he's asking just he's treating her with kid gloves.

780
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.400
<v Speaker 6>He's really trying hard not to be not to frighten

781
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.000
<v Speaker 6>her because he thinks she's got a little girl in

782
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.800
<v Speaker 6>his hand. But she's lying, like Matt, She's just telling

783
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:58.800
<v Speaker 6>all kinds of falsehoods and claiming that she didn't know anything.

784
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:03.760
<v Speaker 6>But eventually she did revealed that she was there the

785
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:06.639
<v Speaker 6>night that she and David were there the night that

786
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:11.000
<v Speaker 6>Brian and Jeanie were killed. They had gone to shopping

787
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 6>with them and gone to dinner at the house, and

788
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:18.320
<v Speaker 6>then they had left and then returned, and that Kimmy said,

789
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:21.119
<v Speaker 6>I was in the house and I decided I want

790
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.239
<v Speaker 6>to go out to the car and listen to some music.

791
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.920
<v Speaker 6>And while I was out there, I heard three shots

792
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:27.480
<v Speaker 6>in the house.

793
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:33.239
<v Speaker 7>Didn't She also admit, almost very early on, despite all

794
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:37.119
<v Speaker 7>the lies, that she had seen a gun revolver a

795
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:39.760
<v Speaker 7>week before David had a gun.

796
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.000
<v Speaker 6>She denied it. At first, she denied seeing any gun

797
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 6>at all, but then eventually she does say, yes, I

798
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:45.280
<v Speaker 6>did see a gun.

799
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 7>Okay, now, so she said that she was listening to

800
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:51.760
<v Speaker 7>the radio, and she even said what songs she was

801
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:54.679
<v Speaker 7>listening to? Guns and Roses, sort of one of their

802
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:57.400
<v Speaker 7>softer tunes. I thought it was interesting that the police

803
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.440
<v Speaker 7>were so thorough that they actually called the radios to

804
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.360
<v Speaker 7>find out what exactly exactly if that tune actually to

805
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.960
<v Speaker 7>match up her story. What's what song DJ did you

806
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:07.800
<v Speaker 7>play at that time?

807
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.119
<v Speaker 6>So I'm trying to think of the I'm trying to

808
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:11.840
<v Speaker 6>think of the name of the tude. I can't remember,

809
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:15.199
<v Speaker 6>but it was a Guns n' Roses piece. And he denied,

810
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 6>he said, no, not in this this jockey. This jockey

811
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:19.840
<v Speaker 6>didn't I don't think of that out right, have been

812
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 6>playing that kind of music? And then him change her story. Oh, oh,

813
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.840
<v Speaker 6>I think I had. We had we had a little

814
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.480
<v Speaker 6>refrigerator case out there we used for CDs, and I

815
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.199
<v Speaker 6>think I took a CD and was playing that when

816
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:35.119
<v Speaker 6>when when I was outside and David was in the house.

817
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 7>And what did she say when they said, well, did

818
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:39.880
<v Speaker 7>you maybe think of calling police? You thought made me

819
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:41.840
<v Speaker 7>there were gunshots, but you didn't think of calling the

820
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:44.719
<v Speaker 7>police or saying anything to anyone. And what was her

821
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:45.559
<v Speaker 7>response to that?

822
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:48.400
<v Speaker 6>She No, she didn't. She didn't think it was necessary

823
00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:51.320
<v Speaker 6>to call the police. You know, she just said and

824
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.360
<v Speaker 6>she was afraid. By that time, she decided she was

825
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:55.960
<v Speaker 6>afraid of David. If she she called the police and

826
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.480
<v Speaker 6>told anyone, he might hurt me.

827
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:02.480
<v Speaker 7>I see, Yeah, it seems that the common refrain some

828
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:04.920
<v Speaker 7>of these people. Okay, so how do how do police

829
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.599
<v Speaker 7>proceed with questioning so they still are are questioning her,

830
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.400
<v Speaker 7>tell us about the questioning of David or what is

831
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:13.599
<v Speaker 7>happening at the same time.

832
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:18.079
<v Speaker 6>Well, eventually they imagined they started getting pieces of evidence

833
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 6>from David, you know, little little bits here and there

834
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.000
<v Speaker 6>to help them and and eventually charge them both with murder.

835
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.239
<v Speaker 6>And I want to tell you about the prosecutor, Glenn McCormick.

836
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.519
<v Speaker 6>This is one of the best people I've ever interviewed

837
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.960
<v Speaker 6>in all of these books. Glenn McCormick was an next

838
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:38.880
<v Speaker 6>professional football player, big, good looking guy. People comprinting with

839
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.079
<v Speaker 6>the guy who's played Superman in several movies. And uh

840
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:44.719
<v Speaker 6>and I was chatting with Glenn by phone and by

841
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:48.559
<v Speaker 6>email and uh. And Glenn said, you know that's part

842
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:52.360
<v Speaker 6>of this happened in Hawaii. And he said, we sent

843
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 6>investigators on Hawaii and we we interviewed and the police

844
00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:58.559
<v Speaker 6>did too when they we interviewed a lot of people

845
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:01.639
<v Speaker 6>with all these transactions taking place, and they began to

846
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:06.360
<v Speaker 6>identify the pictures of David leg and Kimberly as the

847
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:11.239
<v Speaker 6>users of these credit cards. And and he said, I

848
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:15.599
<v Speaker 6>was really working hard in this case, and I I

849
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.519
<v Speaker 6>employed another prosecutor to go to Hawaii with the investigator.

850
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 6>He said, I guess I didn't think that through very clearly.

851
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.400
<v Speaker 7>Did I.

852
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:27.920
<v Speaker 6>I loved Glenn mcgermick and our times thang on focus

853
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:31.280
<v Speaker 6>because I wanted to talk football with, even if pro career.

854
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:33.599
<v Speaker 6>But what a great guy. And he built he built

855
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:39.400
<v Speaker 6>just a marvelous case against with no friendsy evidence at all,

856
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.880
<v Speaker 6>but with the just the use of the credit cards.

857
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:48.480
<v Speaker 6>Mostly they built a case of murder against David and Kimberly.

858
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:51.360
<v Speaker 7>Now, the thing is important to know as well for

859
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 7>the audience is that this Glenn McCormick guy is quite

860
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.840
<v Speaker 7>a character. He also, and this is unusual, he doesn't

861
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 7>he doesn't believe in plea bargaining. So he doesn't want

862
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.079
<v Speaker 7>to give this anyone a deal. He wants to use

863
00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:07.960
<v Speaker 7>the idea that Kimberly and David were illegally married and

864
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:10.920
<v Speaker 7>so there's no spousal privilege and then use kim on

865
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:12.880
<v Speaker 7>the witness stand. So tell us about all of that.

866
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's a great point. You know, court watchers know

867
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.679
<v Speaker 6>that people who go to trist know that in most

868
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:23.639
<v Speaker 6>cases a wife it does not have to testify against

869
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 6>her husband. A lot of people miss misunderstand that thing,

870
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:29.519
<v Speaker 6>and the White cannot. But it's a matter of choice.

871
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:33.079
<v Speaker 6>She cannot be forced to testify. So Glenn went the

872
00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:36.400
<v Speaker 6>great links to prove that the marriage between David and

873
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:41.079
<v Speaker 6>Kimberly was illegal, that David was still married to Alicia

874
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:45.599
<v Speaker 6>la Flesh when when he alleged he married Kimberly. So

875
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:48.760
<v Speaker 6>and they finally got a judgment from a course saying

876
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:51.760
<v Speaker 6>yes that was not a legal marriage. That allows Kimberly

877
00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.880
<v Speaker 6>to testify. It has them to force Kimberly to testify

878
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.079
<v Speaker 6>in court under subpoena.

879
00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:59.599
<v Speaker 7>Now, what did they plan? We won't be able to

880
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.440
<v Speaker 7>go too much into the trouble. What did McCormick plan

881
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:06.039
<v Speaker 7>to be able to force Kim or what did he

882
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.880
<v Speaker 7>want Kimberly to attest to at trial That he thought,

883
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:14.320
<v Speaker 7>despite not having the overwhelming forensic evidence, that he would

884
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:16.800
<v Speaker 7>be able to get this conviction in front of this jury.

885
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:22.559
<v Speaker 6>Well, McCormick really hoped that Kimberly would finally testify that, yes,

886
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:26.920
<v Speaker 6>she knew that David killed his parents and that she

887
00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:29.760
<v Speaker 6>was in the car, but she heard gunshots and no

888
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:33.840
<v Speaker 6>one else could I possibly have done the murder. But Kimberly,

889
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.880
<v Speaker 6>even though she was given a pretty good deal, she

890
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.440
<v Speaker 6>wouldn't be charged with murder, She would be only charged

891
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:44.360
<v Speaker 6>with fraudulentlyse of the credit cards. She still she still

892
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:48.039
<v Speaker 6>was devious and reluctant, and when the trial started she

893
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:51.199
<v Speaker 6>began by lying her head off. She was on that

894
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:54.079
<v Speaker 6>witness stand and now she's seventeen years old two years later,

895
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:57.360
<v Speaker 6>but she was one of the most adept liars on

896
00:51:57.400 --> 00:52:01.880
<v Speaker 6>the stand. That and Glenn McCormick when he began in

897
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:05.360
<v Speaker 6>his testimony, he said, now the first thing what we

898
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:07.679
<v Speaker 6>want to do is establish you are a liar, aren't you? Kim?

899
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:14.079
<v Speaker 6>She didn't want to admit that, but the defense, now,

900
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:19.199
<v Speaker 6>Michael Burnet's an excellent defense attorney. His whole strategy was

901
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:24.119
<v Speaker 6>to point to Kim as the probable killer, and every

902
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:28.440
<v Speaker 6>bit of evidence that McCormick might bring against David could

903
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:31.440
<v Speaker 6>equally apply to Kim, even though she'dn't been given the deal,

904
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:34.199
<v Speaker 6>and so the defense was trying to suggest she did

905
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:38.639
<v Speaker 6>the shooting that she can, so that began she began

906
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:41.599
<v Speaker 6>to see her problem and start finally giving them some

907
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:42.639
<v Speaker 6>truth on the stand.

908
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.159
<v Speaker 7>Well, to add to the emotional aspect of this, when

909
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.960
<v Speaker 7>we talked about this ring, it was a twenty fifth

910
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.960
<v Speaker 7>anniversary ring to Brian At given to Genie, and they

911
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:56.960
<v Speaker 7>had agonized over this what she might get for that anniversary,

912
00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.760
<v Speaker 7>what they might buy. So she was very proud of

913
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:01.199
<v Speaker 7>this ring. Was I don't know anything about rings, but

914
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:04.000
<v Speaker 7>this a three point three or it's a significant, big

915
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:10.840
<v Speaker 7>ring that they eventually tracked down the jeweler that sold

916
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.360
<v Speaker 7>or that David had sold this ring to and got

917
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.559
<v Speaker 7>seven thousand dollars for probably about half as much as

918
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.719
<v Speaker 7>this thing was worth in resale. And so that was

919
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.119
<v Speaker 7>the kind of evidence as well that came at the

920
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:27.239
<v Speaker 7>trial about the ring and the sale of that ring,

921
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:31.920
<v Speaker 7>just to wrench some emotional response over that jury, wasn't it?

922
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.840
<v Speaker 6>Well? That one? That was an excellent point. And that's

923
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:38.000
<v Speaker 6>what led him to Darren Malloy first, because someone named

924
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:40.760
<v Speaker 6>Darren Molloy the day after the murders came to this

925
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:44.960
<v Speaker 6>jewelry store in Phoenix and had a three point three

926
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:49.239
<v Speaker 6>carrot diamond ring to sell, and the owner of the

927
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:52.000
<v Speaker 6>shop bought it and made a good deal on it.

928
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.000
<v Speaker 6>But Arizona has a law that's something that a piece

929
00:53:57.039 --> 00:54:01.760
<v Speaker 6>of jewelry of that expense, they must record not only

930
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.880
<v Speaker 6>the sale, but who sold it with a photo ID card,

931
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:14.320
<v Speaker 6>and that remains on record. And Detective Ron Jones knew

932
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.679
<v Speaker 6>of that, and he began going through the records of

933
00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:20.159
<v Speaker 6>transactions and found that transaction and went right to the

934
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:24.119
<v Speaker 6>jewelry store and interviewed the owner, and Darren Malloy was

935
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:25.480
<v Speaker 6>in here and he sold me that ring and he

936
00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:28.039
<v Speaker 6>had a young Hispanic girl with him, And so that

937
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.360
<v Speaker 6>was the first lead to Darren Malloy, who eventually turned out,

938
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:32.519
<v Speaker 6>of course, to be David Legg.

939
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:38.239
<v Speaker 7>Now, how did David Legg respond to questioning? How did

940
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:43.719
<v Speaker 7>he proceed to trial? He had a very experienced and skilled,

941
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:49.000
<v Speaker 7>a skillful lawyer. So tell us about how what he did,

942
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.400
<v Speaker 7>what his demeanor was like. Tell us a little bit

943
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.719
<v Speaker 7>more about David Legg after this.

944
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:58.480
<v Speaker 6>The lawyer also had a beautiful assistant name also lawyer

945
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:01.639
<v Speaker 6>named Tanya McMath and Eve had seemed to focus more

946
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:03.920
<v Speaker 6>on her than he did anything else during the trial,

947
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:08.360
<v Speaker 6>and he was in complete denial though a Hispanic gang

948
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 6>had apparently killed his parents, and Kimmy was involved, according

949
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:16.000
<v Speaker 6>to David, because she knew this gang and she's the

950
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:17.880
<v Speaker 6>one who put the gang over there to kill his

951
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:19.039
<v Speaker 6>parents and get that ring.

952
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:23.840
<v Speaker 7>They said, yeah, now what was his story?

953
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:24.039
<v Speaker 5>Though?

954
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:26.119
<v Speaker 7>I thought it was very interesting too because it was

955
00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:30.199
<v Speaker 7>pretty nonsensical, or at least pretty unbelievable. He said that

956
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.960
<v Speaker 7>he didn't kill them, however, he did throw the blanket

957
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:35.840
<v Speaker 7>on them and the twine tell us what his reasoning

958
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:36.280
<v Speaker 7>was for.

959
00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.920
<v Speaker 6>That well, David said that when I went over that parents,

960
00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:41.559
<v Speaker 6>I found that evening, I found my parents dead, and

961
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:44.159
<v Speaker 6>I was horrified. I was shocked. But I'm a deserter

962
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.360
<v Speaker 6>from the army now, so I can't call the police obviously,

963
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:51.039
<v Speaker 6>and so what am I going to do? And so

964
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:53.880
<v Speaker 6>they I decided I just might as well take their

965
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.920
<v Speaker 6>credit cards in that ring and because of their mine. Anyway,

966
00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.480
<v Speaker 6>now my parents are dead and so I'm to use that.

967
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:02.960
<v Speaker 6>But I did not kill them. Somebody else killed them.

968
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.239
<v Speaker 6>But I just needed I was going to use the money.

969
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:09.480
<v Speaker 6>And yeah, girlfriend, Hawaii with it. Oh boy.

970
00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:13.000
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so that's good. Yeah. And you know, the other

971
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.400
<v Speaker 7>thing I thought was interesting too, is because I think

972
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:17.719
<v Speaker 7>people forget and a lot of people there's so many,

973
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:24.480
<v Speaker 7>there's so many fascinating and incredible crimes and murders in

974
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.400
<v Speaker 7>the US that you chose to include the story of

975
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:33.360
<v Speaker 7>Eric and Lylemanendez and the murder of their parents. Tell

976
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:35.280
<v Speaker 7>us a little bit about that and tell us why

977
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 7>you put that in. I found it interesting. It would

978
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:40.480
<v Speaker 7>surprise me a little bit. But tell us why you

979
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:41.719
<v Speaker 7>found it necessary.

980
00:56:41.800 --> 00:56:42.880
<v Speaker 6>Felt did you pick that up?

981
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:43.119
<v Speaker 5>Dan?

982
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:46.039
<v Speaker 6>That's great because one of the most famous murders in

983
00:56:46.039 --> 00:56:50.559
<v Speaker 6>Southern California history is the story of lyleman and Desani's

984
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.239
<v Speaker 6>brother who killed their parents, who were very, very wealthy,

985
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:56.480
<v Speaker 6>and they killed their parents in order to enrich themselves

986
00:56:56.679 --> 00:57:00.800
<v Speaker 6>and went through a highly publicized trial here at Los Angeles,

987
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:04.519
<v Speaker 6>and we're convicted and sent to life in prison, each

988
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.280
<v Speaker 6>of them, they both brothers. What's remarkable is that that

989
00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:13.280
<v Speaker 6>trial ended only just a few weeks before David Legg's

990
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.599
<v Speaker 6>parents were killed. And I suggest in the book that

991
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:21.400
<v Speaker 6>I wonder if David was inspired by the an INDs

992
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:23.920
<v Speaker 6>case to say, oh, I can do that, and I

993
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:25.280
<v Speaker 6>can do it better than they did.

994
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:29.800
<v Speaker 7>Did you find in the end, really that there was

995
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:36.039
<v Speaker 7>any trauma, even if it was imagined because by David

996
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.039
<v Speaker 7>Legg some grand insult by his father or his parents,

997
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:43.599
<v Speaker 7>Was there any even a shred of reason why he

998
00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:47.360
<v Speaker 7>may have had any animosity or anger towards them, or

999
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:49.840
<v Speaker 7>this is just a senseless, greedy slaughter.

1000
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.199
<v Speaker 6>I think David Legg is a classic, classic sociopath. I

1001
00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:57.960
<v Speaker 6>think he wanted money, He needed money desperately. He wanted

1002
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:01.039
<v Speaker 6>to take his little girl to Hawaii, and he was

1003
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:06.320
<v Speaker 6>in deep debt, and he's an uncaring person with absolute

1004
00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.519
<v Speaker 6>no conscience at all, and he killed his parents and

1005
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:15.159
<v Speaker 6>took their money. And a reporter who covered this, whom

1006
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:18.920
<v Speaker 6>I talk about in the book quite a bit, agrees

1007
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:22.239
<v Speaker 6>with me. He interviewed David twice in prison, and he said,

1008
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:25.360
<v Speaker 6>this man is a classic sociopath.

1009
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:29.360
<v Speaker 7>So you wouldn't try to excuse him at all with

1010
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:32.719
<v Speaker 7>any kind of the talk about bipolar, ah, a d

1011
00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:36.440
<v Speaker 7>any kind of mental illness. He just chalk it up

1012
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:40.639
<v Speaker 7>to greed and immaturity and murderous intentions.

1013
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.360
<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, And you know I have a problem. I've been

1014
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:50.280
<v Speaker 6>to many, many murder trials, and I've seen psychiatrists psychologists

1015
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:52.679
<v Speaker 6>get up on that stand, one for the one for

1016
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:55.800
<v Speaker 6>the prosecution and one for the defense, and invariably they

1017
00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:59.280
<v Speaker 6>can contradict each other totally because they're making money, they're

1018
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:02.639
<v Speaker 6>selling their testimony. And so I pay very little attention

1019
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:07.199
<v Speaker 6>dan to psychiatric testimony and trials because I think they're

1020
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:10.119
<v Speaker 6>just well I shouldn't say this, but I think some

1021
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:11.360
<v Speaker 6>of them aren't very honorable.

1022
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.000
<v Speaker 7>Well. The thing is too that the juries usually don't

1023
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.199
<v Speaker 7>go for that, it's not really accepted. And I know

1024
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:20.320
<v Speaker 7>the stats are very very low for any kind of

1025
00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:24.159
<v Speaker 7>insanity defense. So it's a good attempt, I would say,

1026
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:28.000
<v Speaker 7>or it's worthwhile attempt possibly, but it doesn't really work

1027
00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:30.440
<v Speaker 7>out for the perpetrator too often, does it?

1028
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.519
<v Speaker 6>Very seldom? I think the abuse excuse does not work.

1029
00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:37.519
<v Speaker 7>No, I like that. Well, I'm in Canada, and then

1030
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.880
<v Speaker 7>it's exactly the opposite of what happens here. We somehow

1031
00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:44.360
<v Speaker 7>have not learned the lesson that America has, and I

1032
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.440
<v Speaker 7>think if we were to have some of the you know,

1033
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:49.559
<v Speaker 7>you're just a bigger nation by ten times, and so

1034
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.679
<v Speaker 7>a lot of your cities are concentrated in population, and

1035
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:55.760
<v Speaker 7>it does seem to be some sort of phenomena. At least,

1036
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.679
<v Speaker 7>you know, there's really good detection of these crimes too,

1037
00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:00.960
<v Speaker 7>and recognition of serial it is. I think a lot

1038
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:02.440
<v Speaker 7>of countries you can say, we don't have the same

1039
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:04.880
<v Speaker 7>rate of serial killers. They wouldn't know if serial killer

1040
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.440
<v Speaker 7>had hit them on the head. You know. At least

1041
01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:10.719
<v Speaker 7>America can recognize it very early on and has been

1042
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:14.719
<v Speaker 7>the groundbreaking force in being able to create that criminal

1043
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:19.079
<v Speaker 7>profiling and databases and ViCAP and and so you know,

1044
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:23.400
<v Speaker 7>you have to you know, America has experienced these heinous killers.

1045
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:26.199
<v Speaker 7>And I think after you experience these killers and find

1046
01:00:26.199 --> 01:00:29.039
<v Speaker 7>out all the information and the media does pick up

1047
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.440
<v Speaker 7>on and some people can criticize that, but that's how

1048
01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:35.000
<v Speaker 7>people can get informed about this. And certainly after that

1049
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:38.760
<v Speaker 7>you realize, yes, these people are psychopathic or sociopathic. There

1050
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:42.599
<v Speaker 7>is no fixing these people. It's just time to make

1051
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:44.840
<v Speaker 7>sure the public is safe from these people.

1052
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:46.719
<v Speaker 6>That's one of the reasons I write these books, Dan,

1053
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:48.920
<v Speaker 6>I hope they inform people and let them know just

1054
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:50.559
<v Speaker 6>who is out there. And by the way, be sure

1055
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:53.639
<v Speaker 6>and tell your people to your listeners to visit my

1056
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:57.920
<v Speaker 6>website Don Lessen dot com, in which I list all

1057
01:00:57.960 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 6>twenty books I've written.

1058
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.199
<v Speaker 7>Great Well, I want to thank you very much. I

1059
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:04.039
<v Speaker 7>want to thank you very much, Don for coming back

1060
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.159
<v Speaker 7>onto the program and talking about your incredible new book,

1061
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:11.360
<v Speaker 7>Deadly Deceit, A perfect family, six bullets at Point Black Range,

1062
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.840
<v Speaker 7>the cruelest betrayal of all. It's quite a fascinating yard.

1063
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:16.920
<v Speaker 7>And we didn't even get in halfway through this book

1064
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:18.840
<v Speaker 7>and talk about the rest of the trial. There's so

1065
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:22.079
<v Speaker 7>many twists and turns and great police work and like

1066
01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:25.800
<v Speaker 7>you say, you bring the life to characters, the prosecution,

1067
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:30.199
<v Speaker 7>the hard the cops that did the good forensic work

1068
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:34.000
<v Speaker 7>and the good footwork and got a if there can

1069
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:36.960
<v Speaker 7>be a happy ending, at least there's a some justice

1070
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.000
<v Speaker 7>for someone by finding out who actually did this and why.

1071
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:43.679
<v Speaker 6>So at my pleasure, Dan, and yeah, you read, I

1072
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.320
<v Speaker 6>love trials. I have a real trial of pholl weekend.

1073
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:49.000
<v Speaker 6>I love them and I love to so I go

1074
01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:50.639
<v Speaker 6>into great detail on the trial, and I hope, I

1075
01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:52.719
<v Speaker 6>hope my readers, your fans do too.

1076
01:01:53.239 --> 01:01:56.400
<v Speaker 7>Yes, well, you absolutely have done it once again. Done

1077
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:59.159
<v Speaker 7>so thank you very much. Congratulations on another great book,

1078
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:01.639
<v Speaker 7>Deadly Deceit, and you have yourself a great evening, Dawn,

1079
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:03.800
<v Speaker 7>thank you for appearing on the program once again.

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01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:05.079
<v Speaker 6>My pleasure. Thank you.

1081
01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:05.320
<v Speaker 7>Don.

1082
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:06.679
<v Speaker 6>Okay, good night.

1083
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.039
<v Speaker 7>You've been listening to the program True Murder, the most

1084
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:11.719
<v Speaker 7>shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that

1085
01:02:11.800 --> 01:02:14.559
<v Speaker 7>have written about them, with your host Dan Zephaski. Good Night,
