Speaker 1: Doug Wilson, this guy who I didn't even really know
about until recently, but apparently he is.
Speaker 2: Pete.
Speaker 1: Why, Pete, what's up?
Speaker 2: You know why? Because you're not a woman.
Speaker 1: Well, Pete haig Seth, who is, of course our secretary
of Defense, is a member of Doug Wilson's church. And
I guess recently uh shared out I should Uh, I
should grab the Yeah, grab grab the video here of
the we could play the ap story.
Speaker 3: Defense Secretary Pete haig Seth recently made headlines when he
shared a C and N video on social media about
the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, an arch conservative network
of Christian congregations where he's a member. The video included
its pastors arguing women should not have the right to vote.
Speaker 4: I was very grateful to him for doing that. He
didn't just repost it like, oh, here's an interesting thing
that these weird people are doing. Uh. He reposted it
and he himself said all of Christ for all of life,
which is the tagline that we use.
Speaker 1: So now, by the way, if Pete hag Seth had
said this is an interesting thing that these weird people
are doing, that would have been appropriate. But he did
not say that. He seems to be expressing support for
Pastor Wilson, And again, what's that.
Speaker 2: It's more than that.
Speaker 1: More than that, Yeah, more than that because.
Speaker 5: That statement that he made, Yeah, that that statement is
is not just like something he's pulling out of thin air.
That statement refers to the belief that first we get
the Christian nation, then we get the Christian constant, then
we go for the world.
Speaker 2: They want a Christian world.
Speaker 5: The ultimate endgame is to convert everybody right a little.
Speaker 4: More reposting it and saying amen at some level.
Speaker 3: Pastor Doug Wilson, the network's co founder, is no stranger
to controversy with his church's embrace of patriarchy and Christian nationalism.
They are a network of all one hundred and thirty
churches and have recently opened a new church in Washington,
d C. With heg Seth attending its first Sunday service.
Speaker 4: This is the first time we've had connections with as
many people in national government as we do now. But
this is not this is not an ecclesiastical lobbying effort
where we're trying to meet important people. We're trying to
give some of these people an opportunity to meet with God.
Speaker 3: Wilson's church in the wider network believe in practice.
Speaker 1: The idea I would like a chance to meet with God.
I mean I have questions, you know, like I've always
wondered what does he look like? And does he have
a long white beer?
Speaker 3: Men and women have different roles, and women should not
hold church leadership positions.
Speaker 4: My wife votes, my daughters vote. If people rush to
conclusions from what they heard on the CNN piece, that's
a sad thing. At the same time, I think that
the Nineteenth Amendment was a bad idea, and I had
no problem with how Pastor Jared answered the question. I
would support that. Our issue is not is not a
problem with the enfranchisement of women. Our problem is with
the disenfranchisement of the household.
Speaker 1: Now, just to clarify what he means, his position and
the position of the church is that there should be
one vote per household, and of course the person casting
the vote would be the head of the household. And
I think we all know when we refer to the
head of the household, we know who Pastor Wilson has
in mind. Right, men, that's right, that's not too clear.
Speaker 3: Follow his Church's example.
Speaker 4: So in our church elections, households vote, and that includes
some women as heads of households. But ordinarily, when you
have a conservative Christian family, the head of the household
is the is the husband and father, and he's the
one who casts the vote. But he's voting on behalf
of the whole household. The issue is not keeping females
from voting. The issue for us is we want households
to have a say.
Speaker 1: There is a little bit of a loophole in there
for him because you know, he because I think in
a separate piece and a longer video, or it might
even even been because we did watch the piece on CNN,
which by the way, Doug Wilson did acknowledge that he
thought it was fair. He definitely a lot of them
that it was fair. Yeah, it was fair and balanced
because they did present all sides. But but the loophole
being see, he can say, he can say, we're not
saying we oppose women voting, because uh, he sort of
acknowledges that not every household, you know, so for example,
if you have a household where there's a mom, but
but the father has passed away, for that's.
Speaker 2: What he said Yeah, it's a widow. You get to vote.
Speaker 1: So that's why he gets to say that. That's why
he can say.
Speaker 2: Well, we're not opposed to women. VI. What's that there's
no divorce in that kind of Christianity.
Speaker 1: Well, that's true. But but if somebody die, like if.
Speaker 5: You watch the full CNN and they also have an
extended version if you go on YouTube, Yeah, is the
full thirty minute version that has all. But they interview
a couple of the heads of his church and they
reiterate the belief that men are in charge, women are
subservient and if that's not enough for you to believe it,
they then go to a couple and the woman openly says,
I am subservient to him, that she's submissive. She used
the word submissive, that she's submissive to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is.
Speaker 5: Part of the control and this crazy Christianity. Right, where
as a woman, you are less than the man. You're
not as smart as the man. God didn't build you
to carry this load, this weight. Don't let your husband
handle those the household difficulty things. You know, you you
keep the house, you raise the kid, but you don't
make decisions. You know, you can have an opinion, but
the ultimate decision is made by.
Speaker 2: The man right, and it is.
Speaker 5: And as a woman, I was once married for a
very long time in and there was a time in
my life when I had converted to Christianity and believed
in a very strict Christianity.
Speaker 1: And a strict version of it. We should just be clear,
just to be fair. I don't think a majority of
Christians actually would follow Doug Wilson, but Pete second. But
a member, a high ranking member of our government does.
And that's why we're talking about this just to.
Speaker 5: Me exactly, Yeah, because I want people to like, this
is a it's it's it's a it's like getting infected
with something right. And you, as a woman, you firmly
believe that you're doing what God is telling you to do,
and you want to go to heaven.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So I believed that if I wasn't a godly woman,
I wouldn't get to see the people that I loved Again.
I was very attached to that idea of being able
to see the people that I loved who died, and
the idea of that not being real was so devastating
to me that the first time somebody really challenged me
on it. I collapsed and just bawled my eyes out,
and it was like, but if you're right, there's nothing.
Speaker 2: If I'm right, I get to be with the people
I love.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So any suffer that I am enduring in this
world is required of me to get the.
Speaker 2: Reward of going to heaven.
Speaker 5: So whenever my husband had done or said or made
certain rules or whatever that I followed, that's where it.
Speaker 2: Was coming from. And it was a very very strong.
Speaker 5: I was a Sunday school teacher. We went to church
every Sunday. I read the Bible.
Speaker 2: I had a woman's study guides.
Speaker 5: I can remember going to I would volunteer for at
the Christian camps as because I was an EMT, I
would volunteer to be part of their medical staff. And
I would bawl my eyes out over tearing over these books.
Speaker 2: Why don't I get it like every Why can't I
feel it? Like everybody else?
Speaker 1: Says? Why is this?
Speaker 2: Why can't I feel what everybody else does? Why? And
I you know, it's because there's something wrong with me? Right,
And that's powerful.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the most powerful thing in the world when
you think about it, Like, if you upset this God,
then you're gonna burn and everlasting.
Speaker 2: Hell, you'll never see the people you love again.
Speaker 5: And I couldn't live with that at the time, right,
And I firmly believed that I may not. No one
understand why these things are written, but God has a reason, right.
Speaker 1: Right, Well they have you know, the Lord works in
the serious ways, which is kind of a catch all
explanation for everything.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So this, this belief system exists in different ways, but
now this situation has catapulted it. This It came out
of a belief in like Calvinism, and they've and remember
now Doug created this shit. He's the founder of this.
This is his own faith that he created within this church.
And now he's got other locations and they just opened
one in DC, Yeah, to have one near the capitol.
Speaker 2: And heg Seth has already gone there.
Speaker 1: To go to church.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And he's very and Doug is very clear that
the Nineteenth Amendment, which is the woman's right.
Speaker 2: To vote, should be repealed. Yeah, women should not have
the right to vote.
Speaker 5: He says that it was the stake to have ever
given the woman the right to vote. So put the religion,
those beliefs, and now put this stuff stacking up right,
We're gonna get rid of women's rights. Men are going
to rule the world only men in leadership. That's a
big eie Tooh, and heg Seth is very big on that.
Speaker 2: He doesn't. You know you look, they don't.
Speaker 5: None of them have women in leadership because women are
too weak, too stupid fill in the blank, you're not
as smart as a man.
Speaker 2: You can't do it. That's their opinion.
Speaker 1: We should for anyone who if you're not familiar with
this guy, like I said, I was not familiar with
this guy before, got a couple other clips here that
I can show that just kind of.
Speaker 4: So let us talk about women voting. Shall we? Back
in the battle days before the nineteenth Amendment, the men
were considered to be the heads of their households and
represented their families at the ballot box. So what happened
when their wives were granted suffrage. Let us take a
typical presidential election to illustrate it, using the first one
in nineteen twenty, after women's suffrage was accomplished, the election
between Warren Harding and James Cox. If both the husband
and wife vote for Harding, say, then what you've done
is simply multiplied the number of total votes cast for
him by two. And if the husband votes for Harding, say,
and the wife votes for Cox, then what you've done
is cancel out the voice of that particular household. Upon
discovering how they were each going to vote. What would
be the harm if the two of them just stay
at home for a quiet dinner together in order to
cancel out one another's vote? That way, where was the
great progress supposed to be local?
Speaker 1: He's really reaching to make this argument.
Speaker 2: He interchanges the world household for man.
Speaker 5: Yeah, remember that, Remember that every time he uses the
word household, it's about the man.
Speaker 1: There's also but there's also a flaw in his logic.
Well here, let me play a little bit more of this,
Like men who don't.
Speaker 5: Have families can't vote?
Speaker 2: How old is bullshit?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point, But there's another flaw here. But let
me let me just play a little bit more of this.
Speaker 4: To be located. The net effect of women's suffrage was
not an advance in women's rights, but rather part of
a push to replace covenanted entities like families with raw individualism.
An overweening state greatly prefers governing an aptimistic populace, where
each individual is like a bebe thrown into an electoral sack.
There's no structural or rigidity to it. Especially after laxity
in the law concerning porn, pot and poker has now
greased all the bebes. Nothing coheres anymore. In the older system,
the people were grouped in molecules Birch's little platoons, some
of them quite complex, and molecular societies are much more
capable of resisting the demands of statism. So the suffrage
movement was actually not taking up the cause of women,
but rather was part of a long sustained war on
the family. The nature of this kind of thinking says
that a decision to aboard a child is a decision
between a woman and her doctor. The father of the
child is stripped of any legal ability to protect the
life of his own legitimate child. We need to retrace
all of our steps in order to discover how travesty
like that could ever happen, And when we do, we
discover that a lot of it started at Seneca fault.
Speaker 1: Now, the thing that I don't understand is so about
his logic. I mean, aside from obviously I disagree with
his position, but I also there's something about how he
gets there that I don't quite understand. So if you've
got because he uses this an example, So if you've
got two if you've got two people in a household,
if you've got a man and a woman who both
vote the same way, you've effectively doubled the voting power
of that household. Whereas if they vote, uh, if they
if the two households vote differently, then they've effectively canceled
out each other's vote. Like, look, I'm not good at math,
But why why does that even? Why does any of
that even matter? Because what if you have so.
Speaker 2: What if you collection of votes that counts? But what
if you have two people vote?
Speaker 1: If you have two people in a household, though, So,
if you have two people in a household and they
both vote the same way, and they both vote the
way you want them to do, right if if if
you're a conservative and you've got a conservative couple and
they both vote the same way, you've Yeah, maybe you've
doubled the voting power of that household. But in that case,
that's a good thing, right for you? If they voted
the way you want them to vote. So it's kind
of like so, for lack of a better way of
putting it, I guess what I'm saying is in response
to his his argument about doubling the voting power of
a household and whatnot. Who fucking cares? In the end,
what does it matter?
Speaker 2: Your matters that when are having a power over a man.
Speaker 1: Presenting that that woman's vote.
Speaker 5: Might cause the candidate that she likes to win, and
she's not going to.
Speaker 2: Obey her husband.
Speaker 5: Is important, But that's not going to obey husband. Then
she's counting. She's killing his vote because she's not obeying him.
But when she is obeying him, she's giving him an abundance.
But we don't want to allow either one of those.
Speaker 2: Only want the men to vote.
Speaker 5: Remember he doesn't say that a man who doesn't have
a wife and kids can't vote.
Speaker 2: He says household vote. A man is a household. A
woman is not.
Speaker 5: Anything right unless she's under some man's roof, then she's part.
Speaker 2: Of his household.
Speaker 5: The only exception to the rule is when a woman
is allowed to be in her own had a household
because our husband died, but you never divorced. Divorce is
an absolute sin. And now broad in this So this
is where we are right and now we.
Speaker 2: Have a Faith Office in the White House Christianity only.
We have a task.
Speaker 5: Force that is supposed to weed out any anti Christian bias,
and we have a Religious Liberty Commission. These things didn't
exist before Trump because we recognized that in this country
well anti Christian initiative, and we didn't have a breaking
we didn't have a woman in the White House under
this Faith office, who, by the way, thinks she can
move a hurricane with a stick.
Speaker 1: Oh, Paula White, Yeah, she's a lunatic.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: But but I'm saying, though, like this isn't this isn't
all new, because we we did see some of this
to a to a small extent during the George W.
Bush administration. And that's part not like this, No, but
that's part of the reason why because if you remember conservative.
Speaker 5: Offensive that you were, Because I feel like Bush is
an entirely different Republican than Trump.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, in a lot.
Speaker 5: Don't think there's I don't think that the aspects of
that are are similar in any way.
Speaker 1: No, but I'm just saying, though the roots of this
did pre exist Trump Trump because not actually.
Speaker 5: Well yeah, it did you got it worse than that.
You got to go back to Nixon and Reagan because
that's when we had prayer in schools.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no Reagan. Yeah, well we never had a
prayer in public school.
Speaker 2: Yes we did.
Speaker 1: There was a push for it. There's always had it. Okay.
Speaker 5: I went to elementary school. In the beginning of the day,
we all did the present allegiance and then there was
a in Massachusetts. Yeah, then there was a prior time
and the Jewish kids and the Jehovah's witness kids were
were in the hallway.
Speaker 2: That surprises in the classroom. It didn't last long.
Speaker 1: That surprises me, but that happened. Okay, No, but my point,
my point was. My point was though that there were
like we saw a lot of this. The reason Christian Conservatives,
for example, they embraced W but they didn't they never
trusted his father. And the reason they never trusted his
father is because Bush Senior was resistant to the Christian right.
Uh he he he. He kept them in arm's length,
whereas w embraced them, and he did have I don't
remember specifically, but he did have some faith based initiative
stuff going on during his administration.
Speaker 2: Little things.
Speaker 5: It wasn't anything that was going to amount to something
somebody getting.
Speaker 2: In trouble or anything.
Speaker 5: These guys are actually literally out to get people because
they have the power. Now, Oh you're anti Christian, I'm
gonna sue you, like this is where.
Speaker 2: We're at right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah right, yeah, and and.
Speaker 1: No, I'm just I'm just saying no because.
Speaker 2: Government period agree.
Speaker 5: And when you ask people like you know, I mean,
this is the pastor that we're talking about. Is the
kind of person who's leading these people that are doing
these things?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right? Who they want this country to have?
Speaker 5: What did he say? He wanted Jesus to be the
head of the country basically was his thing. And he
said that Muslim, what do you say about Islamic faith?
Was I don't know what he's everybody else's faith is heresy,
but their version of Christianity. Right, that's literally outside the
Oval office now, and that concerns me. And when you
say you're going to go target people that you consider
anti Christian, what does that really look like?
Speaker 2: How is that going?
Speaker 5: And is there anything going on that we don't even
know yet? Like because this exists, we know it exists.
Speaker 2: What are they doing?
Speaker 1: Miriam Banish says in Texas they had a moment of
silence when she was there two thousand and three to
two thousand and seven. Yeah, I didn't know that was
actively happening anywhere. I always here Christian conservatives talk about
that like it's like a compromise. It's like, well, if
you're not gonna have prayer in school.
Speaker 2: I don't remember that. You didn't have the moment silent
thing either. We had that afterwards. I mean we had
a long time. We had pledge of allegiance, moment of
silence announcements.
Speaker 1: Just to clarify though, So I went to a Catholic school,
Saint John's, and conquered from grade two to grade eight. Now,
starting in ninth grade, I went to public school. It's
possible there was something. I doubt it though, But if.
Speaker 5: You missed it, it's possible it's happening.
Speaker 2: Then you're only a year younger than me.
Speaker 1: I doubt it was happening.
Speaker 2: This was happening.
Speaker 1: I doubt it was happening, even in public school in
New Hampshire. But but it could have been. It could
have been, and I just missed it. It certainly wasn't
happening because in ninth grade. In ninth grade, I started
going to public school. And there was nothing even approaching
anything like that in public school and conquered when I
was in when I was in public school. But there
could have been something that I just was never exposed to.
That's certainly possible when I was.
Speaker 2: And when we moved. When I'm one of.
Speaker 5: The moves I had, I am was it eighth grade
or seventh grade?
Speaker 2: You see this seventh It was the eighth grade.
Speaker 5: I ended up in a school where I was one
of only two Jewish kids in the school.
Speaker 2: It was an overcrowded school back then.
Speaker 5: The schools were packed and we weren't on half day
sessions where they used to do this thing when they.
Speaker 2: All to night to the days.
Speaker 5: But you could only walk around the school in one
direction because it was that fall. Was that ba and
at Christmas time, I guess they had always traditionally just
had like Christmas stuff up, but now that they had
two Jewish kids.
Speaker 2: And I made an offhanded remock once.
Speaker 5: About see, you know, I see all the Christmas stuff,
how come there's nothing bahanika?
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden there was, and I was
like the pariah. Yeah yeah, And then we did.
Speaker 5: Hanka got added to the Christmas program, and they stopped
calling it the Christmas thing not long after that and
started calling it the Fall Concert or whatever.
Speaker 2: But it was called the Christmas like it. You know.
Speaker 5: I think about that stuff and how uncomfortable it was,
and then we moved so far past that people expressing
themselves and having their own face, and now here we
are and all of that progress is being completely stripped away,
piece by piece, and I worry that this Christian nationalist,
uber uber right wing is going to do irreparable harm
that we can't undo.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's already so much going on.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's these belief systems that endorse the belief
that we should pull people out of their car because
they look Mexican and find out if they're really if
they here legally or not, and that we as a
society had a long time ago said nobody in law
enforcement should be able to what was the word I'm
word searching here, what was the word for it? When
you when you highlight somebody you're looking for a particular
rate profiling, profiling?
Speaker 2: Thank you? Yeah, Remember that was a big deal.
Speaker 5: It was in the news, and they did away with
racial profiling. We weren't going to allow that in law enforcement.
Now now we're encouraging it. You know, now we're encouraging it.
And that certainly isn't going to affect the uh, you know,
the white africata, but it's sures heck is going to
affect anybody whose skin.
Speaker 2: Is slightly brown. Miriam looks slightly Asian.
Speaker 1: Miriam says. In the chat room, my artistic kid had
his hands held down on the table because he was
fidgeting during a moment of silence. So I assume this
was back in Texas. He wasn't making noise or hurting
anyone or damaging property, and they basically used a form
of restraint.
Speaker 5: Yes, yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And we're and
now that's being brought back up. I mean, you go
further with hegsas belief system. They believe that the.
Speaker 2: Not just they want the Constitution.
Speaker 5: Is one thing, but they want the Ten Commandments in
every classroom, and they want prior in every classroom. And
you know, the every day should start with that, every
day should start with praising an idol and you know,
professing Christian belief, his.
Speaker 2: Version of I want to clarify that.
Speaker 5: His their version of Christianity, because there are a lot
of good Christians out.
Speaker 2: There that don't have these belief systems.
Speaker 5: Right, you know, don't believe that a woman should be
stripped of her individuality and be melded under the man
in her household, be it her father, her brother, her husband.
And these these people are in decision making positions now
that are setting laws that are literally putting people in
jail right in concentration styled camps.
Speaker 1: Miriam said in the chat, if someone isn't raised with religion,
how would they choose the religion, the right religion. Well,
that's the fallacy, and that's the basic that's the giant,
gaping logic hole in religion begin with.
Speaker 2: Let me let me dive into that little hole.
Speaker 5: And add to that, As somebody who wasn't raised in religion,
I knew of things from different sides. It was very
easy to fall prey to somebody who said this is
the right, this is the way, The truth is the light. Yeah,
you know, nobody get it. You know, nobody gets to
the father up by me. You know, when somebody you
know is dearly beloved, He would say to us, pastor drole,
dearly beloved. You know, I was seventeen when I started
going to that church, and this man convinced.
Speaker 2: Me that this is the way to go.
Speaker 5: All the women wore dresses, never pants. In fact, I
got seen in a pair of jeens, and I felt shame.
Speaker 2: For being seed in jeans.
Speaker 5: Out in public, right because they made me feel that way,
and the way the men carried themselves and the way
the women carried themselves, especially as as somebody who grew
up with some serious issues, really crazy ass bad childhood,
and somebody who wasn't secure in her own femininity to
be around these women who are the ultimate feminine in
skirts and phillies and only their wedding bands, and maybe
I don't think they were any jewelry except the wedding band.
Speaker 2: You know, that's the woman I'm supposed to be, and
I'm not. What's wrong with me? My whole life was
what's wrong with me? Why I like?
Speaker 5: And that was such an easy prey for right, I
was really easy prey, and I ended up carrying those
beliefs for most of my life, and my own thoughts
would be pretty bad if I caught myself sinning. And
now they're running the country, and they're changing our classrooms,
and they want the Bible in the classroom, and they
want the Ten Commandments on the wall, and they want
Christianity to rule over everything, including our governments. And anybody
who's Hindu or a Muslim, or a Jewish or atheist
or anything other than his brand is demon possessed.
Speaker 2: That's what he said. Demon that's that, pastor.
Speaker 5: And you've got I think we saw the video and
you guys, yeah, that might be the one.
Speaker 2: I don't or it might have been.
Speaker 5: No, it might not be, because it was one I
was watching without you where he literally said, what's wrong
with the world is that is a is this demon possession?
So base and that's part of what's right. So democrats
are demons? Oh yeah, ideology is Satan stew right, that's
what there's There's no.
Speaker 2: More you know, people people talking to each other.
Speaker 1: I have a I have a family member who sends
me text messages that say things like that, and in
the same text message, he'll criticize me for my ad
hominem attacks on the right while he's calling me a
demon rat and saying I believe.
Speaker 2: In calling you all.
Speaker 1: This other stuff. Yeah, it's kind of.
Speaker 5: It's kind of funny how once you talk to somebody
you love is.
Speaker 1: I do have I do have one more video here
of Pastor Wilson. I think we should grab this. Let's
see which one didn't I blow this one.
Speaker 4: I didn't play yet. Women are the kind of people
that people come out of.
Speaker 6: So you just think they're meant to have babies.
Speaker 4: No, it's doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically.
The wife and mother who is the chief executive of
the home is entrusted with three or four or five
eternal souls.
Speaker 6: I'm here as a.
Speaker 1: Working By the way, notice he said three or four
or five? Did you catch that?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: I did, because because a big deal is a big
part of their deal is have as many children as possible. Yes,
have as many children as possible. That's a big that's
a big part.
Speaker 2: Of the correct children. Now, we got to give birth
to the right, the right children.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: That's why you have to get anybody who's brown out
of the country.
Speaker 1: Right. That must be. That must be what it is. Yeah,
that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's my theory.
Speaker 5: Anyway, while we're rounding up human beings based on what
they look like, right, a.
Speaker 6: Mom of three?
Speaker 4: Good for you?
Speaker 6: Is that an issue?
Speaker 4: No? No, it's not automatically an issue.
Speaker 7: Christ Church senior past is the leader of a Christianology
movement that believes in a patriarchal society where men are
dominant and women are expected to submit to their husbands.
Josh and Amy Prince a lot with their four kids,
move from Washington State to Moscow, Idaho, where Wilson's movement
is based.
Speaker 2: Do you see Amy as your equal?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: And no, in the sense that we're both saved by grace,
We're absolutely on equal footing, but we have very different
purposes God given.
Speaker 2: But do you see.
Speaker 6: Yourself as the head of the household, as the man
he is the head of our household? Yes, and I
do submit to him, So like moving here, I was
just your decision.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great it's a great example.
Speaker 7: Wilson says, in his vision of a Christian society, women
as individuals shouldn't be able to vote. His fellow pastors
Jared Longshore and Toby Sumpter agree.
Speaker 4: In my ideal society, we would vote as households, and
I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote.
But I would cast the vote having discussed it with
my household.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh yeah, I trust you, right, I.
Speaker 2: Trust about it.
Speaker 1: We talked about it. Yeah, we discussed it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But if there's your wife doesn't want to vote for
the same person as you, right, well, then.
Speaker 4: That's a great opportunity for a good discussion.
Speaker 2: There are some who have gone so he's still going
to vote. His wife want the nineteenth and movement repealed.
Speaker 4: I would support that, and I support it on the
basis that the atomization that comes with our current system
is not good for humans.
Speaker 7: And Wilson, a veteran himself, is unapologetic about his view
that women shouldn't be in certain leadership or combat roles.
Speaker 6: Looking at the leadership page for christ Church, it's all men.
Do you accept women and leadership roles in the church and.
Speaker 4: Government in the church now? Because the Bible says it's
not to.
Speaker 8: Well, that's not what happens in the Bible. Women do
lead all the time.
Speaker 7: Progressive Faith leader Reverend Jennifer Butler is concerned about Wilson's
growing influence.
Speaker 8: He is rapidly gaining in power. He has hundreds of
churches established around the country. They actually literally want to
take over towns and cities, and they have access to
this administration.
Speaker 7: Wilson's highest level connection to the administration is Defence Secretary
Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 4: It's not organizationally tied to us, but it's the kind
of thing we love to see.
Speaker 7: For his part, hag Seth has publicly praised Wilson.
Speaker 1: Now we're standing on the shoulders of a generation later,
the Doug Wilson's and the other. So there you go.
So yeah, he's so, this isn't something where you know,
we're just making assumptions or no, you know, we're.
Speaker 5: Literally repeating what these people are saying, like they're not
hiding their crap anymore.
Speaker 2: It's on.
Speaker 1: He Seth is all in. Heg Seth is all in.
Speaker 5: They used to say only behind closed doors are out
in the open now because they feel emboldened and they
have the power and they're getting away with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you know. Miriam says, I was raised vaguely
Protestant and my dad was agnostic. My mom left when
uh oh, my mom felt we should be free to
choose what to believe. So I tried a few things
that was empowering, and what I found was that I
didn't need it to be a good person. I like
Unitarian Universalists because the idea is that the community is
there to help you discover that best path for you.
Speaker 5: Now there's a story out of this Doug Wilson church,
and you guys can look it up on your own.
Speaker 2: The story that I read, and that's I'm just repeating
what I read.
Speaker 5: Is that he had a member in his church who
was a pedophile.
Speaker 9: Oh, he had worked with this man who repented and
was forgiven, and then the church helped him.
Speaker 2: Find a wife, and then they.
Speaker 5: Had a baby boy who he then assaulted the baby boy,
and then he went to the church and confessed that
he assaulted that he.
Speaker 2: A baby boy.
Speaker 5: And because he confessed and repented, he was forgiven.
Speaker 1: Oh good, So no need to get the law involved, ob.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing to see here, move along with. Yeah, that's it.
That's all you gotta do.
Speaker 1: That's all you gotta do.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you.
Speaker 5: Kill somebody, yo, God, Well we were all good, right
hey sorry?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So that's the bleef. That's the bleef. So
this man, right that, this is this is the caliber
of human And if you and.
Speaker 5: The Handmaid's Tale, nothing in the Handmaid's Tale that I
wrote was not something that had happened or is happening
in this world. Every aspect of the society that she
wrote about are things that actually happened, you know. And
in the Handmaid's Tail, men can do no wrong and
they still have their plocivities, their.
Speaker 2: Kinks. Right.
Speaker 5: There's a place in the book where it's called Jezebel's
where the commanders the men go and sleep with whatever
woman is being kept there who is a sex slave,
and then they go home to their dutiful wives and
thump the Bible. You know, that is what I see here,
these these Bible thumping holier than now bastards who dehumanize
their women and their daughters. And anybody who doesn't believe
their way is a demon.
Speaker 2: You're either demon to possessed, he said, or I don't
know if.
Speaker 5: It was ignorant or something, but he basically believes that
any but that doesn't believe the way he does is
because they're demon possessed, right, like for reals, Like they
really do think that.
Speaker 2: So when they hurt somebody, they think they're hurting this demon.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, it's a good work around. Yeah, yep, that's
not about the hue. It's a demon, right right.
Speaker 2: Calls women hunts harlots.
Speaker 5: Yeah, women are not supposed to be in charge because
also they're devious.
Speaker 1: Remember the Apple, Yes, that's where it all started.
Speaker 5: And have a pension for the evils.
Speaker 1: That must be where the word evil comes from. Eve
never thought of that before.
Speaker 2: Actually, I have to look that one up. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never thought of that till now.
Speaker 5: But when I mean, when you really get into those
beliefs system, it is very powerful and very dangerous, and
now it's being wielded against anybody who isn't one of them,
anybody who isn't going to toe the line of one
of them, Like if you're not the white heterosexual male
that they want you to be, if.
Speaker 2: You're supporting them, they're going to have you to dinner.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 5: Ask a few people who are from Cuba how they
feel about that. Who had dinners with the Republicans down there.
Vote for us, We're going to give you back your nation,
and now you can see videos of them crying. Yes,
because they voted for Trump. They believed everything they said,
and now their loved ones are being deported.
Speaker 1: Yep, I don't have any sympathy for them, just for
the record.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, this is how these people operate.
Speaker 5: Oh you're a black man, come on in, Come on, honey,
just make sure you marry your own kind.
Speaker 2: Because if you think that doesn't exist in this type
of church, you're wrong.
Speaker 1: Of course your is wrong.
Speaker 2: It totally does. And anybody who's not them is not
equal to them.
Speaker 5: Think of a caste system, because that's basically what we're
being set up into now.
Speaker 2: The uber elites are running everything.
Speaker 5: They're getting the tax breaks, they get shit tons of
tax dollars.
Speaker 2: I mean, hard.
Speaker 5: Working people, citizens and non citizens get money taken out
of their paychecks long before they ever see a dime.
Speaker 2: And that money is now going into the pockets of
the people that we're talking.
Speaker 5: About, and they're going into the CEOs of these companies
that make twenty million dollars a year annual salary, never
mind their perks and bonuses.
Speaker 2: Who the fuck needs twenty million dollars a year to
live well.
Speaker 1: Not only that, but look at people like Doug Wilson.
You know he lives very well. He's a very wealthy man.
A lot of these these religious leaders are very, very wealthy.
That's why I I you know, and again i'll i'll these.
Speaker 2: Churches, somebody these churches a million dollars.
Speaker 1: And you know, I get and again I get accused
by a family member of being anti Christian when I
say this stuff. But it's like, I'm actually not anti Christian.
I think I think Gandhi was right. You know when
Gandhi I can never get the exact quote right when
he said, it's it's it's not it's it's not your
christ I don't like. It's your Christians. I don't like
because they're so unlike your christ Or as a friend
of mine used to paraphrase, I have a friend who
passed away a few years ago, but he used to
say his version of that was Christianity is a great idea.
Somebody should actually try it, because you know, these people
so so blatantly, so flagrantly. I call it ironic Christianity,
you know, which is this this version of Christianity where
you you say you love Christ and he's your savior
while actively having as little to do as possible with
anything Christ actually said or taught and behaviors. Yeah, exactly exactly.
That's why you know, I'm pretty skeptical about all of it,
because I don't think any of these people actually it's far.
Speaker 5: Does Jesus say, for I was a stranger in your
land and you fed me.
Speaker 2: For I was a stranger.
Speaker 5: There's a whole section of the Bible, and Jesus says,
you know, you fed me, you clothed me, you housed me,
you did right by me. And then he goes after
the people on the other side and he says, for
I was a stranger in your land, and you did
not feed me, and you did.
Speaker 2: Not clothe me.
Speaker 5: Yes, and he casts them down because they're not the
real Christian. The real Christian is the one who brought
them in. The real Christian is the one that goes
over to the poor and feeds them and clothes them.
Speaker 2: And here's the kicker for you.
Speaker 5: Okay, the whole thing about government is not going to
doesn't want to do charity things. You know, we're not
gonna We shouldn't have food stamps. We should have churches
with food banks, that's the answer. We shouldn't have free
things because the churches will do it.
Speaker 2: These are the churches, and they're not doing it.
Speaker 5: And then yeah, so the same people who are saying
the church is to be doing it. Are the same
people who are that the leaders in these churches who
won't freaking do it right you want?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I just wanted to say to be fair.
So when we talk about this, you know, we're talking
about the churches that are obviously all about the money,
or at least obviously those of us who are looking
at them with a critical eye. There are I just
want to acknowledge that it. You know, in communities all
across the country, there are also small churches that actually
do do things for the community like run soup kitchens
and various charities and food drives and clothing drives and everything.
So I want to acknowledge that too. I don't want
to paint everybody with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are people who are actually, believe it or not,
trying to do Christ's work in communities all across the country,
and they they need to be uh acknowledged and praised
for that because they're actually they're actually doing something good.
So we don't want to pay with a broadbrush. But
we're talking about the Charlatans who unfortunately are the ones
who get all the media coverage, who are who are
not doing Christ's work because my theory is they're they're atheists.
I always say this about televangelists. There's no way they
actually believe in God, because if they like people like.
Speaker 2: People away themselves that they do.
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't think it's even that. I have a
different theory about that. I know everyone says that, but
I think they do. I think no. I think they're
full on atheists. I'll tell you why, because if there
were any part of them that actually believed, wouldn't they
be afraid of going to hell for what they do?
I think they will. I think they're aists because they are.
Speaker 2: I think they believe in what they're saying. When I
lived in Kentucky, he is a guy. I lived in
Kentucky and I worked in a real sweatshop.
Speaker 5: So in factory we made pajamas and I had a
like so sleeves onto these shirts, and you had to
look at your machine.
Speaker 2: If you were caught looking at somebody else, you'd get.
Speaker 5: Yelled at in front of everybody and threatened with getting fired.
Speaker 2: No talking, nothing.
Speaker 5: They There were multiple times that Friday would roll around
and they'd tell us that the banks screwed something up,
and when our paychecks weren't there, or you'd go to
the bank to cash your paycheck and.
Speaker 2: It would bounce. There wouldn't bet any money left in
the account if you didn't get there fast enough to
hit your paycheck.
Speaker 5: But every Friday at three pm, we were to shut
our machines off and they would play original Sin doctrine
sermons over the speakers.
Speaker 2: If you didn't want to listen to it, you.
Speaker 5: Were supposed to go back to work. But if you
turned your machine on and went back to work, somebody
would yell at you that they couldn't hear the sermons. Right,
he's seen holier than and they believed, Oh did they?
Speaker 2: Lord?
Speaker 10: I understand that they the office and literally the one
that came out of the office and said to me,
the reason we weren't getting paid was because the fax
machine messed up the numbers when they sent it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I told him I knew how a fax
machine worked.
Speaker 5: And I went home with my paycheck, and I was
told that I was to say nothing or I would
be fired, and so would my husband.
Speaker 2: But these are the same people here.
Speaker 5: These guys make so much money off of the faithful,
but they believe wholeheartedly that God wants them to do this.
Speaker 2: God wants them to have these things just to clarify
them for the hard work that they're doing.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's called it's called prosperity gospel. But what
I'm I'm just saying, I'm talking about the people at
the very top, the very top, like Kenneth Copeland, Paula White,
Joel Olstein. I just I.
Speaker 2: Personally, she expused.
Speaker 1: No, no, No, that's what I'm saying. I believe I
believe that they don't believe at all. I'm saying this
is purely a business.
Speaker 2: That's right by that. I'm surprise that you say that.
Speaker 1: Did I say what that?
Speaker 2: You don't think they're real believers?
Speaker 1: You're you're surprised. No, I don't. I don't think. I
don't think that's what I'm Yeah, I don't think Paula
what they really.
Speaker 2: I do believe she does. I do think she's a
true believer.
Speaker 5: I think she so believes that she's been chosen by
this power that if she gets us stinging in her foot,
it's God's telling her something.
Speaker 1: No, it's a business. It's a business to them. It's
a business to them.
Speaker 2: They I will agree to disagree with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I mean who knows. I don't know.
I don't know what what goes on in their brains
are in their hearts. But no, I don't my That's
always been my theory that that I'm talking about. I'm
talking about the really rich televangelists like Paula White, Joel Oldstein.
I don't. I don't think they don't believe that. I
don't think that they actually believe that there's a deity
who's going to judge them when they die. Because if
they actually believed that, wouldn't they be afraid to to
do what they do? And then?
Speaker 2: Know?
Speaker 5: You see, all right, let me let me say I
lived in Kentucky for three years, and you want to
talk about uber uber Christian, like these people are Christians
you've never met?
Speaker 1: No, but that's not who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: But that's what I know.
Speaker 5: I disagree with you there. These people are those people.
They are those believers that carry it like a badge
of courage, and they truly believe there's something magical inside them.
Speaker 2: When that woman stands on your there, Ryan, and she
believes that God is going to.
Speaker 5: Give her the strength to move a hurricane with a
stick while she's speaking in tongues.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh, yes, she knows.
Speaker 2: Yet she knows. They believe that ship, lockstock and barrel.
They'll fight you over it. They'll kill you.
Speaker 5: My action my father in law Breton to shoot me.
Speaker 2: He was gonna like threaten to kill me.
Speaker 1: Sure what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: Me? Accuse me of doing witchcraft?
Speaker 1: Letting hun No, I understand that. But I'm talking about the.
Speaker 2: People, these people. I've met, these people.
Speaker 5: I've met some of these people who have a ship
ton of money and they justify it.
Speaker 1: I know, prosperity. I'm talking about the people at the
very top though they believe.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I think they believe it. I think they're
firm believers. I don't think you think Joel.
Speaker 1: You think Joel also actually believes as a God judge
when he dies.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, but he doesn't believe God's going to judge
him poorly. They don't fear judgment. You got to understand something, too, honey.
A lot of these people believe that once in grace,
always engrace. Once you're saved, you're always saved, right.
Speaker 1: Which gives you all, which gives you a perpetual get
out of jail free.
Speaker 2: Ever you commit, always e grace.
Speaker 5: And if you don't believe one hundred percent and that
you believe that once you repent, you're As long as
you ask God for forgiveness, you go to heaven.
Speaker 2: So no matter what you do, even if you come
to believe.
Speaker 5: That something you did was wrong, as long as you've
prayed on it and turned it over to God.
Speaker 2: Left it on the altar.
Speaker 1: Well, well, so do you believe that Trump actually believes
all of his own bullshit or is this a con see?
I apply the same sea. I look at Trumps the
same way I look at these televangelists, because I also
know that that Trump is a con man, and he's
just conned millions of people who are gullible enough to
believe he found.
Speaker 5: He tapped in and realized how much power there Isn't that?
Because if they stand in front of you with the
Bible preaching gospel, and preaching gospel means you're saying anything godly.
Speaker 1: Yah.
Speaker 2: So Trump's standing there with the Bible and saying something
godly is God? This is God moving through him? Say
you believe it?
Speaker 5: Looks that's why he can't do anything wrong, because God
is directing it all right, and as a plan for it.
Speaker 1: They believe he was chosen by God.
Speaker 2: Only he knows.
Speaker 5: What he You cannot understand the wonders of the Lord.
You have to put your faith in trust in it.
Speaker 1: And that's why.
Speaker 2: Wanted to win. He wanted to win.
Speaker 5: He also wanted to stay out of jail. And he
saw that these people latched on.
Speaker 2: And he realized that if he gave them the Christianity
they were looking.
Speaker 5: For, they'd be in like crazy all over him. And
that's exactly what's happened. All he does is give them
what they want, and they're happy, and he keeps them
and he keeps their their support and their favoritism and
all of that. And that's all he kids about. I
don't think he knows shit about the freaking Bible. Anybody
who stands there and goes two Corinthians has never read
the fucking Bible, because you don't even know how it works.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: My favorite, my favorite clip of all time was when
down No, No, When who's at John Heilman and who
is the other guy? Rob halpern h This was back
during the twenty sixteen campaign, when they asked him after
a debate was was he, you know, if he had
a specific passage in the Bible that He's like, oh no,
I like all of it. And they asked him, well,
are you of a more of an Old Testament guy
or a New Testament guy? And he goes, well, you know,
I think I like them both equally.
Speaker 5: It's like.
Speaker 1: But but and yet these Christian conservatives they're so easily
conned by it.
Speaker 5: And they also they shold them very much to New Testament.
Only Old Testament. It was done away with with, was
fulfilled by Jesus. So you follow the New Testament. The
Old Testament isn't needed anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, but the Old Testament is the world. But the
Old well, but they go to the Old Testament.
Speaker 5: Of course, they validate shit, they'll validate stories or whatever
you mean testament, But that's not how you live by.
You live by what's in the New Testament and what
Jesus said.
Speaker 2: So we're not doing burnt offers.
Speaker 5: No, they don't do that, schal We move to Sundays
instead of Saturdays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they don't give a about They don't give
a shit about Jesus either, though, like that don't I mean,
I mean, they love him and they accept him as
a savior, but they don't actually care about anything you
said or did.
Speaker 2: Oh, they do. They believe it.
Speaker 5: I'm living a godly life by following Jesus's teachings.
Speaker 1: But they don't. Though they don't, they don't.
Speaker 2: Believe they are, they firmly believe they are. Well, I
think they I think they believe it.
Speaker 1: I think they kind of treat Jesus like he's like
the drunk uncle at Thanksgiving, Like, you know, we love him,
he's part of the family. But if Jesus wants to
just go to bed now and not say anything else
crazy like you know, you should take care of poor
people or not let children starve or something. We've had
enough of that, Jesus. Why don't you just going on
the bed.
Speaker 2: Get those pots that are inconvenient.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, of course it's all inconvenient.
Speaker 5: They take and they twist, you know, take take any
section of Scripture handed to ten Christians, and they're all
gonna come up with it. Who can you know, they'll
come up with ten different versions of what they think
it says.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because it's based on whatever they want it
to be exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: I'll justify my belief. I'll find a verse that justify
this one fits me. And that's how it works. I
can justify anything I want to believe.
Speaker 5: Look at Doug believes that slavery was good for people.
Doug Wilson is the one that said slavery was good
for people.
Speaker 1: That's a common narrative among his ilk.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they believe that shit and they justify it
biblically because you're supposed to be good to your slaves.
Speaker 2: It's in the Bible. They were good Christians, they were
good to their slaves. See, yeah, that's real.
Speaker 5: These people like I've been I'm telling you, these people
will kill you for their belief. That's how strong the
belief is. It is one hundred percent. And everything you
do becomes.
Speaker 2: For Ot, for God. It's that marching order, and you
justify and they justify it.
Speaker 5: They for I believe that the vast majority of the
fuckers think they're doing the right thing under their faith.
Speaker 2: But Trump is doing money.
Speaker 5: He seth I think he might be fucked up and
truly believe this ship because he's been a part of
it long.
Speaker 2: Before might orbit He has been a part of this
a long time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he took the he took the portrait down of
the first black woman to become an I think it
was an admiral was there was a he took stuff
down in the Pentagon that had to do with women.
If it was a woman, somebody who was gay, or
somebody was transgender, it got scrubbed because remember when he
first started scrubbing ship, the dumbass scrubbed the Aola gay.
Speaker 2: They scrubbed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, too woke, But see woke is now also making
a building accessible for a disabled person to get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, anything anything they don't even know what the
word means, just anything they don't like is woke.
Speaker 2: Woke, and all democrats are demons.
Speaker 5: I miss it the days when people politically could disagree
but debate one another work and you know, work for
the greater good of our country because we want. I
don't want Trump to fail. He fails, my country fails.
Speaker 2: Well, you want. I want my country to prosper.
Speaker 1: You want your country to succeed.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 5: But what we're we're we're undoing decades of good works,
you know, pulling special kids out of school and reinstitutionalizing them.
Why are we doing this? You don't want because they
don't want kids to know how to work with disabled people,
or they just want to put it. I swear they
want to take anybody who's disabled or special needs and
just lock them away in a facility, because if you
can't make the money and you can't serve them, you
have no purpose on this earth for them. And these
rich pricks live in a different world than us. You
and I and probably ninety ers, probably all of our
listeners don't live in the same world as these people.
They don't shop in the grocery store like you do.
They don't go to the same clothing stores that you do.
They don't drive the way that they don't do anything
the way you do. Things are laid out for them
because they're that rich. They set it up ahead of time.
And we have a greed issue in this country.
Speaker 2: That's what we have. When a healthcare CEO wakes twenty five.
Speaker 5: Million dollars in a year, or even a million dollars
a year, but you're going to raise the premiums and
you're taking away dental care from people on Medicare because
they use too much of it the insurance they paid for,
but because they use too much of it, because you
don't have the money for their care.
Speaker 2: But you have money from.
Speaker 5: A time million dollar salaries and payouts and two private jets.
Speaker 2: You won't fly with the peasants. These are the people
running the country.
Speaker 5: On that part with you, I do agree, But I
do think that Paula White is a real believer.
Speaker 1: Trump no, oh no, Trump definitely not hexas.
Speaker 2: I think he's a believer. At paul A White, I
think she's a believer.
Speaker 1: It's a business.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think she is no way