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Speaker 1: For members only. Golf Smarter number three hundred and eighty five,

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published on May twenty one, twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never Gets Old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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Speaker 1: The subtitle of the book is Growing Up Girls and

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Looping on the Old Course? Why Girls and what do

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you get?

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Speaker 3: Okay, second season I get back, there's a rival business

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that has started up in St Andrews that is in

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its infancy when I get there in the second year.

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It's called model caddying. What it is is two university

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girls have started a caddy business in which they're about

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twenty five university girls, all of them with modeling experience,

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who are going to be caddying in Scotland. None of

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them are golfers. They are all from Saint Andrews, but

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they I guess none of them even had been on

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a golf course before they were like the twenty five exceptions.

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If they knew golf. None of them had ever ever

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caddied before, so at this point they needed someone to

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train them, and I got introduced to them my first

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night back in St. Andrews. I'm talking to these three

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girls who are about twenty five thousand leagues above me,

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like I would never be able to talk to these

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girls otherwise, And it comes up that I'm a caddie,

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and this girl Julie, who's setting the whole thing up, goes,

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oh my god, that's so cool that you're a caddy.

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And never in my life have I been told the

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caddying is cool.

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Speaker 1: An American caddy in Saint Andrews with author Oliver Horovitz.

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This is Golf Smarter. Welcome to Golf Smarter for remembers only.

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Speaker 3: Oliver, Hello, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you on here. You you wrote

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a book that I found to be so fun entertaining,

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and I'm just excited to have you on the show.

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When do I begin tell me the basis of an

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American caddie in St. Andrews.

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Speaker 3: An American Caddy in St. Andrews is about my seventh

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summers that I've spent caddying on the Old Course in

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St Andrews, Scotland.

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Speaker 1: And that has got to be an exclusive opportunity. How

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did you nail that?

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Speaker 3: It's a good question. So I was. I went to

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high school at Stuyvesant High School in New York City.

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Stuyvesant is just so you know, it's one of these

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specialized schools. So it's one of the dorkiest high schools

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you'll ever find in the entire country. Everyone knew everyone

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else's GPA to the decimal place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an East Coast thing.

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Speaker 3: Our robotics team was nationally ranked, and.

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Speaker 1: You were you were golf nerd.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and in the midst of this, I founded the

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golf team, so you founded it. I was like the fawnds,

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as you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: And then and they're like going, oh exciting, we get

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to play video golf and you're like, no, with an actual.

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Speaker 3: Ball part of the deal. In Manhattan, if you we

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were the only public school in Manhattan that had a

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golf team. So what that meant was we were either

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hitting balls at Chelsea Pears or we were taking the

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subway up to the Bronx to play golf at Van

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Cortland Park.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, fun and how big? How big of a

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team did you create.

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Speaker 3: We had a lot of spillover from the football team

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and the basketball team. We had about four kids who

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could play golf. Actually, our high school matches had a

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rule in which it wasn't the lowest score one on

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the hole, it was after seven shots, the person who

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was closest to the cup won the hole. I like,

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so anyway, I was.

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Speaker 1: On everybody gets a trophy at the end.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of participation ribbons.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and who brought the oranges?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? So I so I went stabsant and in my

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senior year, I was on the wait list to get

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into Harvard.

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Speaker 1: I was congratulations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean at the at the time, it was

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really really stressful because kids were getting off the waitlist

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and being told they had gotten in. Uh, kids were

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getting rejected off of it. I heard literally nothing until

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until June, and I was in the middle of my

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graduation ceremony and I was actually up on stage playing

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trumpet because our you know, our school band was playing.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't as if you were not a super achiever

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you also had to be playing on this Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was playing third trumpet, which is kind of like

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playing division seven hockey or something.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you only had two trumpet players.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was. I was on stage playing trumpet

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literally the middle of the graduation ceremony, and my phone

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rang in the middle of the ceremony and I looked

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at it, and it was Sally Champagne, the Harvard admissions

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officer for the New York region. Uh, Sally Champagne kind

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of sounds like a stripper name, but she was actually

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a missions officer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I wasn't gonna buy it. Actually, isn't

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this a porno that you're talking about? Exactly? Sally Champagne? Yeah,

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like ham.

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Speaker 3: So basically everyone around me knew that I'd been waiting

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on this call, and like everyone was like, oh my god,

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she's calling. This is happening. I ran off stage and

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I went into this kind of side corridor alley, and

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I took the call.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you ran off stage during this during

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the yep, you guys.

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Speaker 3: Were playing so not smooth. I like put down my trumpet,

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like clanked he out of my seat, and I like

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shuffled out of the out of the auditorium. It must

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have looked really bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the band leader probably.

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Speaker 3: Was pretty upset doctor Wheeler. I was not a big

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He was not a big fan of mine that day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so miss Champagne give you a.

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Speaker 3: Call, and I take Miss Champagne's call, and she says

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to me, Oliver, I've got great news. You're in. And

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then I said, oh my god. And then she said

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you're in for next year. And then I was like,

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what do you beyond? I was like, why did you

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why did you deliver the news in that way? But

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what had happened was Stuyvesant, my high school, the college

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office lost my final semester grades. They misplaced them, and

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they didn't send them for two weeks after they were

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supposed to send them. And by the time they were

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you know, I'd killed myself that spring because I knew

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I had to get good grades if I was getnet

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off this wait list. And Harvard didn't get the grades

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in time filled up their class of two thousand and

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seven and then said to me, you're the first kid

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accepted for the class of two thousand and eight, and

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I thus was given I guess you'd call it a

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deferred admission. So I had to take a gap year,

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which is kind of a euphemism for killing three hundred

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and sixty five consecutive days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and not somebody who's motivated to get this to

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Harvard is prepared to do well.

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Speaker 3: You're totally right. I mean at the time I was,

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I was kind of bummed out because all of my

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a lot of kids from Stuyvesant were going there. I

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had about twenty friends I knew who were going to

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be there the year after.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so at the time I was, and those kids

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were so smart that if you waited one year, by

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the time you got there, they'd already graduated.

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Speaker 3: They were going to be president or by the time

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I got there. So I so I was like, what

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am I going to do for this year? You know,

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if I if I take a year off and really

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just do nothing for a year, I'm going to get

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to Harvard, I'm gonna I'm gonna flunk out. And I

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and I had this, I had this idea. So I

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had already applied to University of Saint Andrews back earlier

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in the year as a as a safety, as like

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a lark in a way. And I knew about san

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Anerew's because my mom is actually English and we've got

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a great uncle who lived in Saint Andrews who'd been

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living there for fifty years named Ken Hayward, and I

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always knew him as this funny old English guy who

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wore a tweed coat and tweed tie every single day,

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even when he was in his garden. And you know,

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we'd come over there for you know, a visit once

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or twice a year to quote unquote see uncle Ken,

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but really just to go play golf.

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Speaker 1: When did you start playing golf?

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Speaker 3: I started when I was nine.

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Speaker 1: Ah, okay, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Remember I saw the Masters on TV. I flipped through

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and ooh, what's this beautiful green space and who's this?

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Who's this Australian dude named Greg Norman playing? And he

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became my favorite player. And I turned to my dad

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that day and I said, yeah, we should try this thing.

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So my dad who was I think dad was fifty

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five at the time, and so I was nine, he

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was fifty five, and we started playing golf that basically

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that summer. So anyway, so I've been playing at this point,

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I've been playing for nine years. I had was playing

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off a one point eight. I was playing a lot

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of golf, very good. I was, you know, sort of

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at the point where I was like, you know, this

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is a good opportunity for me for a year to

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see how good I can get and see if there

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was any way to actually give this a shot of

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playing professionally. I mean, when I was fourteen fifteen, Fred,

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that was my dream in life was to be a

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golf thro Well, let's.

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Speaker 1: See, you've already proven that you're a overachiever by a

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one point eight stuyves in a you know, an elite

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high school getting accepted to Harvard. Yeah, so I'm sure

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that you were very comfortable with setting very high goals

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for yourself and probably pressuring yourself way too much for sure.

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Speaker 3: I mean I should say you one thing about Stivesan.

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You have to take a test to get in, and

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twenty four thousand kids take a test and eight hundred

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get in just one exam. I made it by one point. Wow,

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and each question is worth like seven points. So I

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don't even understand how that was possible. So I was

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literally number seven ninety nine or eight hundred accepted. So

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I was very used to squeaking into things like on

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the skin of my teeth, so Harvard the waitless thing

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didn't surprise me much. So I was like, you know what,

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Saint Andrews has this freshman year broad program and you

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can sort of go there and do your first year

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and then leave and you don't get credit. And the

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deal with Harvard was you can do anything you want

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for a year, but you cannot enroll in a four

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year program. And so I guess the loophole was because

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I could just do freshman year at Saint Andrews. The

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deal was I couldn't transfer any credit from my gap

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year back to Harvard. I'd have to start as a freshman.

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And I sort of like complained about that for a second,

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and Sally Champagne was like, well, you know, if you

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wanted to, you could reapply right now as a transfer,

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but you'd have to give up your spot now. And

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I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: No no no, no, no, no no, because in your mind

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you're going I have to repeat thirteenth grade.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I flunked. Oh I'm a miserable failure.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm in I'm at this point, seventeen years old,

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and I've been, you know, just killing myself academically for

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four years in this really huge pressure cooker. And I

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was just completely about you know, getting there and getting started.

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But this this gap year seemed cool from the get

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go as well. I did a little research to St Andrews.

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I discovered a couple things pretty quickly like that night.

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First of all, Prince William was a junior at St

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Andrews when I was going to be going there. I

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knew that because he was there, female applications had risen

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significantly to St Andrews my year, freend, I think it

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was sixty five thirty five girl to guy ratio, sign

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them up correct. I also knew importantly that the drinking

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age in Saint Andrews and in the UK was eighteen,

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and by eighteen, I mean a very loosely enforced eighteen.

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There are often kids you see in the bars that

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are like maximum fifteen. And Saint Andrew's is, you know,

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it's this very quirky little town with only three streets

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and thirty one pubs. In this little town, it's got

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more pubs, more pubs per capita than anywhere else in

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the entire United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So the thing that sealed the deal was the golf.

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And here's why. When you're a student at University of

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St Andrew's, you get to play unlimited on the old

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course and the other at the time, five other courses

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for the entire year for one hundred and three pounds.

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Now that's two hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have I have a lot of golfers that

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I caddy for who are seventy to eighty years old,

253
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who ask that it's too late for them to apply

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as grad students.

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Speaker 1: Okay, then I don't have to ask.

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Speaker 3: It's done. I'll come over and write your recommendation.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: So I knew it was going to be a good year,

259
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and I knew that this was something that was was

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going to be fun. So I called them up. They

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said I could do it. I called Harvard. They said, yep,

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you can apply and you can go. You can enroll,

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and I shipped out and I started that September.

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Speaker 1: Awesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, as soon as I got to St. Andrews,

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there was a couple other surprises. I guess in retrospect

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it shouldn't be a surprise, but every single person it

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seemed like at St. Andrews in the university played golf,

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including very very cute girls. Oh everyone played golf. Now,

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it's almost as if it was a parallel inverted universe

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because the golf team at St. Andrews was the coolest

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team in the entire school. It was like the football

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team anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you are not in America anymore, my friend.

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Speaker 3: The other the other kids were all English, like Northern English, Scottish,

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total party animals. They were basically out of the movie

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Animal House. Wow, there was no It's a very differently

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run team than in American schools. There's no adult supervision,

279
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there's no coach. We met once a week in a

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pub called the Gin House. And when I was there,

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there were twenty five kids in the golf team. Fred

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with a two handicap or better.

283
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, crazy serious competition.

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Speaker 3: And we're talking like a two handicap like in Scotland.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah right.

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Speaker 3: I once had a match against a kid who was

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I knew he was a one. It was like a

288
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visiting match and I knew he was a one handicap

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and I had to play him. And then on the

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first he was like, where are you one? At by

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the way and he's like, oh at Carnouski. Yeah, I

292
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think I lost about I think I was eight and seven.

293
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I got beaten. Yeah, if that so these kids were amazing,

294
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and golf was kind of like in a weird way,

295
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it was the currency with which you got respect in

296
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the school is completely weird, and so for the first

297
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time in my entire life, my playing golf was like

298
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a cool thing, and I thought, this is yeah, I've

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found the right place for me.

300
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Speaker 1: This is good, this is going to be good. And

301
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then you're starting to go, I'm only here for a

302
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year exactly.

303
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Speaker 3: And the year rolled through and they are all these

304
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,360
amazing traditions at St Andrews. There's something called the May

305
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,720
Dip because by the way, the university is six hundred

306
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years old. It turns six hundred this year. Wow, And

307
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they're all these old, old, old traditions, and one of

308
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them is the May Dip. It takes place on May first,

309
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in which the entire school, all seven thousand students, stay

310
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up all night, go into parties and then they at

311
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five in the morning charge into the North Sea completely naked.

312
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Speaker 1: And you're talking about those cute golfing girls too.

313
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Speaker 3: Yes, it's not like the people you don't want to see.

314
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:06,960
It's a lot of the people that you really are

315
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,559
praying to God every day that you're going.

316
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,399
Speaker 1: To see now, is this something that it's just for

317
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,200
students or do alumni fight to come back?

318
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 3: They do not come back for that. I've definitely seen

319
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:23,399
some older people taking pictures on the beach, which is

320
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,080
not totally kosher. But what are you gonna do? Yeah, right,

321
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,159
I'll probably do the same thing when I'm seventy.

322
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 1: You don't have to. You've got the memories, You've got

323
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,759
the whole album of photographs in your head.

324
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Speaker 3: Totally. So imagine this like every day there's something new

325
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,080
like this going on, and you're amongst kids from all

326
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,559
over the world. And I was seventeen. I had never been,

327
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you know, broad by myself before, and I'm suddenly in

328
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,600
a class in which it'll be ten people in this

329
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:59,399
international relations class. There'll be a kid from Germany, France, Sweden, England, Spain,

330
00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:02,279
maybe Canada, and I'll be like the only American in

331
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:08,960
the class. It was wonderful and I just had the

332
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,440
best year of my life. I had my first serious girlfriend,

333
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,839
I did my first serious drinking. I missed five days

334
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,279
of golf the entire year, and then.

335
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Speaker 1: That's probably because of the girlfriend, right exactly exactly.

336
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 3: And then the end of the year came around and

337
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,559
I thought, you know, I'm just I'm not ready to

338
00:17:28,599 --> 00:17:32,119
leave Paradise yet. And so I thought about what I

339
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,039
could do for the summer, and at the golf team

340
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,240
at one of the meetings, the kids were telling me

341
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,839
that a lot of golf team guys stayed over in

342
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,000
the summer and they caddied on the Old Course, and

343
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,240
they said if you, if you do it, you can

344
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:49,839
make fifty pounds around. I remember the exchange r it

345
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,039
was so bad back in four that I think was

346
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,000
it was two to one. So you make a hundred

347
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,279
bucks around if on a good day you get two

348
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,279
rounds a day. And they told me all of the

349
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,480
hilarious stories about you know, the gruff old Scottish caddies.

350
00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:06,400
So I thought to myself, Yeah, this sounds like a

351
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:11,000
great summer job. This is perfect. So I push back

352
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:14,319
my flights. I found a place to live over the summer,

353
00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:18,279
and I went down to the shack and I enrolled

354
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:24,759
in the official Old Course trainee Caddy program. Now, when

355
00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:27,759
you're a trainee caddy, the way to get into the

356
00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:30,440
program it's it seems like it would be easier to

357
00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:33,880
get like a PhD. It takes so long. You have

358
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,519
to first of all, do a week in house in

359
00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:42,240
which they give you all of these ridiculous like hours

360
00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:46,759
and hours of instruction covering everything. After this week, you

361
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:48,720
then have to be a shadow caddy, in which you

362
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,720
have to follow professional, older veteran caddies around the course

363
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:56,440
and quote unquote I guess pick up tricks of the

364
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,240
trade from them. Then you become a trainee caddy, in

365
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,079
which you have to do thirty assessed rounds which you

366
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,720
get paid a lot less money. You have a humiliatingly

367
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:14,680
huge badge on your caddy bib which says trainee caddy. Yeah,

368
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:18,119
it's like saying, hey, pay me less money. And the

369
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,200
worst thing this is it.

370
00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: Also says, hey, if I make a mistake, I'm sorry,

371
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,200
but I'm new with this exactly.

372
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,599
Speaker 3: And then it's you have to stand by the window

373
00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:28,559
as Rick McKenzie, who I'll tell you about later are

374
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,160
stalinesque caddy master, as he told our golfer right in

375
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,680
front of us. Now, just so you know, Oliver is

376
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,720
a trainee caddy, as if like, if I screw up,

377
00:19:39,759 --> 00:19:43,440
it's not his fault. So you work, you work through

378
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,960
the round because you know you want to get you

379
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,319
want to get as much money as you can, so

380
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,920
you work it really hard. Throughout the round, you kind

381
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,799
of try to overcome your training status for your golfer.

382
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,680
And then at the end of the round, what do

383
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,000
you have to do? Fred? You have to give your

384
00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:59,480
golfer a report card for them to fill out right

385
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:05,160
before you get paid. Uh yeah, it's really really bad.

386
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 1: God an employee evaluation every four hours, yep, yep.

387
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 3: And then you have to hand that over to Rick. Now,

388
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,519
once you do thirty of these assessed rounds, then you

389
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,279
take a test and it's a written exam. And on

390
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,720
this written exam you have to name a lot of

391
00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:23,839
the names of the one hundred and twelve bunkers on

392
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,920
the course. You have to sketch breaks in a lot

393
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,039
of the greens. They have like a little diagram you

394
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,039
have to fill in. Gon do all this. If you

395
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,039
pass a test, if you get good feedback on your rounds,

396
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,319
if the shadow catting went fine, if all of this

397
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,720
was successful, then Rick might take you on maybe.

398
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,799
Speaker 1: And this is not easy for a kid who's probably

399
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,319
really good at tests, and you're like, this is more

400
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,720
pressure than you had before.

401
00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 3: Totally totally. So you know, in retrospect, I showed up.

402
00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:06,119
I was eighteen at this point. I was eighteen American,

403
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:11,599
a trainee caddy, a student. I had nothing going for me.

404
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,119
I was like the lowest of the low.

405
00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: But you're thinking, I'm good. You know, I've got a

406
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:19,079
good score, I know the game. I've been playing most

407
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:19,720
of my life.

408
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,079
Speaker 3: Totally. At the time, I thought, Oh, they're gonna love me.

409
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,880
This is great. You know, I'm a good golfer. I'm

410
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,559
going to waltz in here and I'm gonna win over

411
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:29,640
the shack. This is great. So I remember my first

412
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:32,200
round as a shadow caddy. This is really I'm never

413
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:35,279
going to forget this round. Had a guy named Kenny

414
00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:38,440
who I was shadowing, a veteran caddy. He had such

415
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,400
a strong Scottish accent and I think other Scottish caddies

416
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,799
couldn't understand what the hell he was saying. And Kenny's

417
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,599
got three American women in his group and they're all

418
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,480
from New York City and they realize I'm from New

419
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:52,440
York and I don't know. I guess I think that's

420
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,359
like really cute or whatever. So they're chatting to me

421
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,839
before the round by the first team, and Kenny's looking

422
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,559
on seems to be smiling, and I'm thinking myself, you

423
00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:01,440
know what this is.

424
00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: This is good.

425
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 3: My Caddy career is off to a good start. Here.

426
00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:09,319
Walking to the first t, Kenny grabs me aside and

427
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,960
he shoves me up right in front of his face

428
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:14,240
and he points to his mouth and he goes, you

429
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,960
see this, and I go yeah, and he goes shut

430
00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:22,240
it ouch. Oh one a day one of my Caddy career,

431
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,720
Nikes and Fred. This was pretty much the way it

432
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:31,799
went for the first month. Every single day I was

433
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,680
like in danger And.

434
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: At what point are you going, I've got a book here?

435
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:40,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, well, that's that's later down the road.

436
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,160
At this point, I'm thinking, why the hell did I

437
00:22:43,559 --> 00:22:47,400
sign up for this? Like, I don't need the I

438
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,440
could sorry.

439
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,599
Speaker 1: For the heyes, no, that's all right, we'll blieve that.

440
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 3: Sorry with that. I don't need this. Uh hassle.

441
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could be.

442
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: I could be back in America with my friends. I

443
00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:03,359
could be Uh you know, I'm starting Harvard in the fall,

444
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:05,400
Like this is what I've been waiting for. What am

445
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,960
I doing taking this from all the caddies. So the

446
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,759
first month you really are thrown to the wolves. As

447
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:14,920
a trainee caddy. There are so many things read they

448
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,240
don't tell you about caddying. They're these unwritten rules and

449
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,799
I knew none of them. And some of them are like,

450
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,000
don't don't correct your caddy. You have another caddy in

451
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:27,880
your group in front of the other players. Just don't

452
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:28,119
do that.

453
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:32,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah, and you should carry

454
00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:33,599
it along with girls too, don't.

455
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,279
Speaker 3: There's a lot of good life lessons.

456
00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Pretend that caddies are your girlfriend never Yeah, okay.

457
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,599
Speaker 3: No, the caddy bib doesn't make you look fat.

458
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: How's my butt?

459
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, all of like, I just I couldn't do

460
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:55,319
anything right for the first month. No, and you know

461
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,359
I was, I was eighteen. I was very talkative, and

462
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:00,640
I was you know, I was showing new Yorker. What

463
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,319
do you mean very of course I'm a New Yorker.

464
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, how you know that?

465
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: It was it was just every day I was getting

466
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,680
screamed at, threaded, and it was.

467
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: It was bad.

468
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 3: And here's well, here's the deal in the in the

469
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,680
caddy shack. There's a real hierarchy at the very top.

470
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:23,240
You've got your like old old kind of veteran guys,

471
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,000
who've been there forever, the kind of grandfather's of the shack,

472
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,559
and what kind of age.

473
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: Are you talking about, these old old veteran.

474
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 3: Guys seventy oh no, oh yeah, we got a seventy

475
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,319
six year old caddy.

476
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: Right now and he's carrying two bags simultaneously through it.

477
00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: No. Well, here's the thing. You can't You actually not

478
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,480
allowed to ever do doubles on your on two show. Yeah,

479
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:45,519
you always do one.

480
00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: Bag around, so you can have four caddies going out

481
00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:49,960
as well.

482
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,759
Speaker 3: Oh, it's crazy. It's always four caddies and four golfers

483
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:57,359
plus some of the golfers wives or whatnot. It's huge groups.

484
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,440
It's about ten or twelve people usually, and they bring

485
00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:02,440
your own with you for sure. I was once with

486
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,839
a Chinese group that had translators for each golfer, assistance

487
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,960
for each golfer, and then a few like tour people,

488
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:11,599
so there was about twenty of us in the group.

489
00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so I got to on a group like that.

490
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:14,799
How are your tips?

491
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 3: I mean, at that point the tip is irrelevant. You're

492
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,599
just worried about the other translators not being hit by

493
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:28,000
other golf balls. So so, yeah, so you got you've

494
00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:31,160
got your really old guys who they're seventy fred but

495
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,000
they look like ninety five. A lot of years of

496
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:39,039
smoking and drinking guinness and standing against the North Sea.

497
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,559
It doesn't do a lot for your your skin tone.

498
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking they're probably weather beaten you.

499
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: And what's amazing is I go back and so guys

500
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:50,599
that I, you know, had maybe haven't seen in a

501
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,839
whole year, they've ate so much when I get back.

502
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: Sometimes the younger guys.

503
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, even the guys who were thirty or forty, and

504
00:25:57,519 --> 00:25:58,880
you're just you're out there in the sun and the

505
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,400
elements every single day. But we say that there's no

506
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,039
better place to be ever on a really nice day

507
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:07,880
when you're out on the course, and there's no worse

508
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,160
place to be when it's a monsoon coming down and

509
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,079
we have to show up. So anyway, So at the

510
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,480
very topic the old guys, then you've got your forty

511
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:19,319
to fifty year old veterans who are really kind of

512
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:23,200
the serious professional caddies. These guys loop on tour a lot,

513
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,240
They've done tons of British opens, they've done tons of

514
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:31,160
women's open events. They're good, they know their stuff. I'd

515
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,880
say a notch below that you have your university kids

516
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,960
who have done a couple of years already, who kind

517
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,599
of they've achieved their decent level of cockiness already. And

518
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,839
then at the bottom you've got your trainees and we're

519
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,119
just the scum of the earth. It's bad. Other caddies

520
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,039
won't even talk to you when you're training. Sometimes you

521
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,440
can be the nicest guy ever. You can be a

522
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:57,799
really good golfer. You can be you don't even have

523
00:26:57,839 --> 00:26:59,640
to be young, you can be fifty years old. But

524
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,799
if you're trainy, it's like again, the scarlet letter is

525
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,279
on your is on your chest. And so my big

526
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,680
thing was, I gotta get I gotta get rid of

527
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:11,160
the trainy caddy thing, like I hate this, like I

528
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,400
need to I need to get promoted here. So I

529
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,920
went into caddy overdrive and I did as many rounds

530
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,440
as I could. And one way to get respect in

531
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:24,000
the shack is to do a lot of rounds. If

532
00:27:24,039 --> 00:27:25,920
you do two rounds in a day, it's called a double.

533
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,000
You do you do a double. If you do a

534
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,759
quick double with no pause in between, it's called a

535
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:35,640
turn and burn h You come in, you go straight

536
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,119
out again. Our caddy master Rick mackenzie was famous for

537
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,920
being right on the eighteenth green, perched there and as

538
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,559
soon as we got there he would point at us

539
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,480
and then scowl and then point right to the first

540
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:51,640
t There was no way you were going to say

541
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,279
no to that. You were going straight out again.

542
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:54,039
Speaker 1: Wow.

543
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And unfortunately this always happens when it's like

544
00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:00,319
the worst weather, when other caddies do slink away. You

545
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,200
are doing a double for sure, Fred, you can also

546
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:08,759
do a treble three rounds in a day. This is

547
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:09,240
a mistake.

548
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: It's got to be exhaust and what time are you

549
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:14,599
starting in the morning, and when are you work until?

550
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,799
Speaker 3: Oh god, you're starting whenever. It's first come, first serve.

551
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,359
This this actually this policy changed a few years ago,

552
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,160
but certainly when I was doing my first four years

553
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,599
of caddying, it's first come, first serve. You would show

554
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,440
up as early as you could, and back in the day,

555
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:32,799
caddies would go straight from the pubs when they shut

556
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:34,920
at two in the morning, right down to the shack

557
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:39,599
and sleep on the benches. Yeah. This still sort of

558
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,720
happens a little bit. One time I showed up at

559
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:44,680
three forty five in the morning and I was number seven,

560
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:46,799
I was like, what do.

561
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,559
Speaker 1: I have to do to win? Yeah, it's trying to

562
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,359
like get around at Tory Pines down in San Diego

563
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:52,000
or like.

564
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: Beth Page exactly.

565
00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:53,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

566
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's funny because golfers are doing the same thing.

567
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,720
Golfers are lining up at maybe five and they're complaining

568
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,279
about that, and then at that point I've already been

569
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:03,200
there for like an hour and a half.

570
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,559
Speaker 1: Right now, can you get an advanced tea time at St? Andrew?

571
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:11,759
I've never played there and I yeah, I've never played there,

572
00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:14,079
so can you? Can you book an advance or does

573
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:15,559
it first come for a serve on that too?

574
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,599
Speaker 3: It's interesting the uh there's one day. I think it's

575
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,400
I think it already happened. I think it might even

576
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,519
be the first day of the year, just January first,

577
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:28,200
the ballot opens up and people will instantly jump on

578
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:31,440
the website or call in and reserve a year in advance.

579
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:32,839
Speaker 1: You can do that.

580
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, wow, there's a couple of things that people

581
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,720
don't really know you can do. But that's if you

582
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:41,160
want to play in a four ball with three of

583
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,599
your buddies, you're going to probably have to do that.

584
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,240
That's your first kind of port of call, let's do

585
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:48,720
a year in advance. After that, there's a bunch of

586
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:51,640
other ways to get on. You can do this thing

587
00:29:51,759 --> 00:29:54,599
called the Old Course Experience, which is a tour company.

588
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:58,720
It's very expensive, but the big big thing that kind

589
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,319
of the feather in their hat is you get a

590
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:04,799
guaranteed round on the Old Course. You can also ballot,

591
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,640
which is showing up maybe the week you're playing and

592
00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:10,359
entering in the ballot two days before. I think it's

593
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:12,839
like maybe a fifty percent chance you'll get on, or

594
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,680
thirty percent chance. And then the other way to do

595
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:17,839
it is to show up morning of and wake up

596
00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:20,200
as early as you possibly can and then get on

597
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:22,279
as a casual. There's so many ways to get on.

598
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,519
Speaker 1: So knowing you doesn't help me.

599
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,599
Speaker 3: It actually does help a little bit because I get points. Yeah,

600
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,000
so we can talk about this after the show. I

601
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:35,480
do need a new set of titleist irons. I can

602
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:36,519
give you my fitting size.

603
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:42,599
Speaker 1: You're tugging to the wrong man. So yeah.

604
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,079
Speaker 3: So the golfers you're catting for a lot of them

605
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,799
are they're so happy to be on the course because

606
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:51,559
a lot of them either showed up, you know, and

607
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,640
waited seven hours to get on, or they came over

608
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,839
and they've been balloting every day and they got on

609
00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:59,079
like on their final day. So a lot of guys

610
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,880
are really really just in little kids in a candy

611
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,000
store when they're out in the course.

612
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,839
Speaker 1: So you did this the first summer after your gap

613
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,920
year where you went to university there? Yea? And then

614
00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:21,880
you had to go back to Harvard would and you

615
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,880
started your Harvard career or did you stay?

616
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: Well, here's what happened. I mean, throughout the summer, I

617
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:32,640
was working so hard and I was kind of picking

618
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,160
up all the tips of what you got to do,

619
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,960
which is basically be quiet when you're a trainee. At

620
00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:40,799
midway through the summer, there was this great moment where

621
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Rick McKenzie, our caddy master, called me to the window

622
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:47,200
and I had no idea what was going on. I

623
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,400
thought I was in trouble because I often was with him,

624
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,359
and without saying anything, he pulled me up to him

625
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,039
and again I thought I was about to maybe get

626
00:31:56,079 --> 00:32:00,279
into a fight or something, and he removed to my

627
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,359
training badge and put in an official old course caddy badge.

628
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:06,359
Speaker 1: Oh did you call your mom?

629
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,359
Speaker 3: I was so happy that was one of the proudest

630
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,559
moments of my eighteen years of life. I can tell you.

631
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:14,640
I was so pumped and all of the trainees were

632
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,799
right around me, the other trainees by the bench, and

633
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:19,319
they were all like clapping me on the back. My

634
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,559
best friends were there and they were all giving me

635
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,319
high fives, and I was like, you know what, this

636
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:28,160
is pretty cool. I did this myself, like no one

637
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:32,279
else pulled any strings, nothing happened. I had to do

638
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,920
this completely on my own, and it felt good. It

639
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,359
felt really good. And as soon as here's the embarrassing thing.

640
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:43,440
As soon as I became an official caddy, Fred, I

641
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:47,480
started being in the shack and just saying, Oh, these

642
00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:52,759
training caddies, they're so annoying. There are so there are

643
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,920
way too many training caddies. It's just the worst. I

644
00:32:56,079 --> 00:33:01,920
completely this cycle just completely turned as well. And the thing,

645
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,759
by the way, actually came completely full circle this past summer,

646
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:06,799
or my seventh season.

647
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:09,279
Speaker 1: Oh so you kept going back every year.

648
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we'll get to that. But this past summer, Fred,

649
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,839
the caddy master of the New Guy Robert Thorpe called

650
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:19,160
me to the window and said, hey, Oliver, can you

651
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,000
take a shadow caddy today, can you have someone follow

652
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,519
you around? And said, okay, and show him how to

653
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:25,039
do it. And I looked to my left and there

654
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:27,720
was a seventeen year old Scottish kid who couldn't have

655
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:29,480
reminded me any more of myself.

656
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, sure, I'll abuse him.

657
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,839
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, exactly, I'll treat him my crap. So by

658
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,160
the end of the first summer, I'd finally want a

659
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,799
little respect, I mean, and by winning respect, I mean

660
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,799
I was getting screamed out a little bit less. I

661
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,559
knew I loved it. I knew I'd stumbled upon this

662
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,680
kind of amazing world that I was, you know, I

663
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,160
was the only American kid there, and I was really

664
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,759
falling in love with it. And then as soon as

665
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:56,680
that happened, it was time to head back and start

666
00:33:56,759 --> 00:34:00,400
it and start at Harvard. And I have to say

667
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,599
I had really mixed feelings when I got back, because

668
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,920
this is something that I've worked I'd worked so hard

669
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,079
in high school to try to get into Harvard and

670
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,280
this and this was something that I you know, it

671
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,320
was the motivating thing for me so many Saturday nights

672
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,760
where I would you know, study that extra couple hours

673
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,480
of like whatever APUs history or something. I waited so

674
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,360
long to get there, and as soon as I got

675
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,280
to Harvard, the first thing I said was, I want

676
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,360
to go back to St. Andrews now, Because suddenly every

677
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,400
kid was eighteen or seventeen. Every kid was talking about

678
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,800
their SAT scores from the year before. It was very

679
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,800
cold in Boston, very quickly, and I missed all of

680
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,760
my friends, and I missed all the Caddies. And so

681
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,480
that first year actually went back twice to Scotlange.

682
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: Gotta go see Uncle Ken. I know, I know.

683
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: I went back in December, and I went back in

684
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,719
my spring break was spring break St Andrew's.

685
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: How cool?

686
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,039
Speaker 3: Is that exactly? Not exactly Miami.

687
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, it.

688
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: Wasn't even it wasn't even a doubt that I was

689
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:04,480
going back the next year. Like I was. I was

690
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:08,679
going back to Caddie for sure that summer. And when

691
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,639
I got back, it was it just felt like I'd

692
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:14,599
come back home. When I first got back in June

693
00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:18,400
that second summer. Now, there's a thing that's kind of

694
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,840
cool about the Old Course. Lots of things are cool,

695
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,519
but the one thing that I love is that the

696
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:26,840
Old Course goes straight out and straight back. And what

697
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,199
this means is the front nine, you're basically playing straight

698
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,239
away in the same direction, and you play out to

699
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,480
what's called the eden Estuary, which is the bottle of

700
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:38,199
the body of water. You hit it on about the

701
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,679
eleventh hole, and then you turn around and you go

702
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,840
straight back in on yourself, so you come back in

703
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,400
on your left. Now, this means that you always have

704
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:50,039
a fairway to your left, and almost every fairway is

705
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:53,320
a double fairway, and almost every green except for four

706
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,880
greens on the old course, are all double greens. Big

707
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,960
shared greens. Yeah, no one really, no one knows this

708
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:04,800
until you get there. Except for four greens, every single

709
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,599
one is shared. The fifth green, by the way, the

710
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:11,400
shared fifth and thirteenth is from front to back one

711
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:17,320
hundred yards. Oh my, oh yeah, an acre and a half.

712
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:21,639
Speaker 1: Wait, but you have to putt.

713
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,039
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Now, you can hit seventeen greens on the

714
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:28,719
old course, or eighteen greens on the old course in regulation,

715
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,599
and it will mean absolutely nothing because you'll have like

716
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,920
seventeen three putts. But oh yeah, you got a putt.

717
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,280
I mean, I've had people take their three woods out

718
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,400
and do like almost a half swing just to reach it.

719
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,079
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, amazing.

720
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:45,559
Speaker 3: So, and don't forget like you could have an you

721
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,199
have an eighty yard putt. That's a two hundred and

722
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,920
forty foot putt. That's pretty crazy.

723
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So.

724
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,119
Speaker 3: But the really amazing thing about all the shared greens

725
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,480
and all the shared fairways when you're caddying is on

726
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,199
every single hole you pass your fellow caddies. You pass

727
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,559
them in the fairways, and you pass them on the greens,

728
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,880
and you always say what's up to each other, and

729
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,840
you know, you do your hot you do whatever, you

730
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,960
do your high five, you do little caddy dance whatever.

731
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,480
But for me, when I got back that first day

732
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:19,320
that I was catting again the second summer, I'm never

733
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,880
going to forget it. That entire first trip round the

734
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,840
old course, on every fairway and every green, I saw

735
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,119
all of the other caddies and they all kind of

736
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,480
like rubbed their eyes and looked at me as if

737
00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:32,559
like they didn't believe I was back, And then all

738
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:34,599
of them waved and smiled.

739
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: Oh great, how cool is that? It was awesome.

740
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: That's the coolest welcoming ceremony I could ever hope to have.

741
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:44,400
Sure all the time, and you know, what this was

742
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,360
a tradition that sort of just it repeated every single

743
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,719
summer that last the last round I did every summer

744
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,920
before I went back, everyone knew I was about to leave,

745
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,519
you know, they knew my flight was the next day.

746
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,760
And it was like saying goodbye and then hello to

747
00:37:58,199 --> 00:37:59,960
you know, to all my friends. It was pretty great.

748
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:04,679
Speaker 1: Amazing, yeah, amazing. So I are you done with this?

749
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,480
Are you not going back anymore?

750
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. Every summer I always say, this is

751
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,360
my last summer.

752
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 1: And you worked last summer. Oh yeah, Oh man, so

753
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,360
you don't know.

754
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I'm you know, I'm I know

755
00:38:18,679 --> 00:38:20,440
for sure, I'm going back in June. I'm going to

756
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,519
be back in St. Andrews the entire month of June.

757
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:27,440
And what what I did the last couple of years

758
00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:32,320
was I would be caddying in the you know, in

759
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,400
the morning. Maybe i'd start cattying at eight or nine

760
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,920
in the morning, and I'd wake up at like five

761
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,519
in the morning, and I'd go write the book and

762
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,320
then i'd go caddy and then after I did a round,

763
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,239
i'd go back to the University of St. Andrew's library

764
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,760
and I'd keep writing and for me, I got to say, like,

765
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,639
I don't think I could have written the book from

766
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,159
New York City, like staring out into like a building

767
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,079
in Manhattan. This was this was something that I really

768
00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:58,320
had to be in St. Andrews to do and sort

769
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,119
of like look out my window onto the golf course.

770
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: What gave you the idea that you needed to write

771
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:04,239
a book?

772
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:10,039
Speaker 3: Well, I'd written the second summer. I wrote a couple articles.

773
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,320
I wrote one for Sports Illustrated about really about that

774
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,320
first summer of caddying, and I wrote one in Golf

775
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,159
World and they both came out the same week. They

776
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,280
came out the week the British Open was there five

777
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,159
and I remember being just terrified when they came out.

778
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,880
I was like, I'm about to get fired. Oh sure,

779
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,280
I'm about to get attacked with pointed sticks, like this

780
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,079
could be bad. And it came out and I like

781
00:39:41,159 --> 00:39:42,920
went down to the shack that first, and you know,

782
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,480
my caddy master Rick Mackenzie hated it, like I got

783
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:47,800
screamed at by him. But the other caddies and the

784
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,239
ones that I really you know that I was worried about,

785
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,559
they looked at me and they're like horror of fits

786
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:56,920
that was hilarious. That was great, great, and so I

787
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,039
guess that was sort of like in the back of

788
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:01,199
my mind, I was like, that's cool, that's cool that

789
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,280
they're letting me share the story and they're not and

790
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,440
they're not angry about it. I mean, this is the

791
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:08,920
shack is The shack is very insular. This is a

792
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480
place that if you just wandered down and tried to

793
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:14,360
talk with some of the caddies, strike up a conversation

794
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,280
like it might not happen. They're pretty closed off. And

795
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,000
I think for me to have gotten into their world

796
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:26,280
and to sort of become accepted, the main thing was,

797
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,079
I think the golf that I played golf and they

798
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,360
knew I was a golfer. That actually won me some

799
00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:34,000
currency there in the shack. And the other thing was

800
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:37,400
that I had going for me was Uncle Ken. They

801
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:42,719
knew him. Oh yeah, now, Uncle Ken was He came

802
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,639
there originally to the station there in the Royal Air

803
00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:50,440
Force during World War Two and he married a girl there.

804
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,519
He met a girl, never left, settled down, married her,

805
00:40:55,039 --> 00:40:59,920
she passed away. A few years later he married another girl,

806
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,440
or I guess at that point she might have been fifty,

807
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,920
so she was woman, and he outlived her as well,

808
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,960
and so he lived in this huge Victorian mansion by

809
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:14,840
himself in the middle of town on Hope Street. Interestingly,

810
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,719
this is right across the street from Prince William. So

811
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,119
every single day they go out of their houses look

812
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:21,719
at each other and go, hey, what's up?

813
00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:31,039
Speaker 1: Was Ken's going, Hey, what's up to? A prince?

814
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: Literally there go there walking across the street and like

815
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,000
doing the head nod. It's it was so funny to

816
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:42,079
see dude, dude looking good. William looking good, wille with

817
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:47,159
U Willey, keep the hair. In ten years time, William,

818
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:49,400
your brother is going to address as a Nazi for Halloween.

819
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,360
That's a really bad idea. Don't let him do that.

820
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:55,360
Yeah right, This actually happened. So Uncle Ken was in

821
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:57,800
later life, he was a town counselor in St Andrews

822
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,159
during the sixties and the seventies, and this meant that

823
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,679
he knew every single person over the age of like

824
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,639
eighty two years old. Uncle Ken was the president of

825
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,559
the Gardener's Club, the president of the Caravan Club, and

826
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,760
could tell you every single thing about St Andrews. So

827
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,840
he was really a funny old fixture in the town,

828
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,000
and everyone loved him, and he had he had this

829
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:28,360
giggle that was kind of like a and every single

830
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,920
person in the town knows the giggle and remembers it

831
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:31,960
and makes him smile.

832
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: Oh so the caddies knew.

833
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 3: That I was Uncle Ken's great nephew. I think that helped.

834
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: That had to help. So listen, I don't want you

835
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:43,320
to tell the entire book. I would like people to

836
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,280
get it because this has been so entertaining. You can

837
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,800
imagine how good the book is. But the subtitle of

838
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,320
the book is growing Up Girls and Looping on the

839
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,199
Old Course. All right, we've covered two out of three briefly,

840
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:57,239
Why girls and what do you got?

841
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So second season I gets back. I discovered something

842
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,239
pretty cool at this point, the coolest thing I'd ever

843
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,159
heard of in my life. There's a rival business that

844
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,199
has started up in St Andrews that is in its infancy.

845
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,280
Get when I get there in the second year. It's

846
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:21,039
called model caddying. What it is is two university girls

847
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,239
have started a caddy business in which they're about twenty

848
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:31,480
five university girls, university students, all of them with modeling experience,

849
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,719
who are going to be caddying in Scotland.

850
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: And all of them are golfers too.

851
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: None of them are golfers.

852
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: Ah, so they're not from the St Andrew's University.

853
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,199
Speaker 3: They are all from Saint Andrew's. But they I guess

854
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,559
none of them even had been on a golf course before.

855
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,440
They were like the twenty five exceptions, okay, sure, and

856
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,960
if they knew golf, none of them had ever ever

857
00:43:54,159 --> 00:43:57,480
caddied before, so at this point they had no way

858
00:43:57,519 --> 00:43:59,920
to They needed someone to train them, and they needed

859
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,880
someone to advise him and everything. And I got introduced

860
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,760
to them, like my first night back in Saint Andrew's

861
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,119
and I'm talking to these three girls who are about

862
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,760
twenty five thousand leagues above me, like I would never

863
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,880
be able to talk to these girls otherwise. And it

864
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,239
comes up that I'm a caddie. I can introduce them

865
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,840
as a caddy. And this girl Julia, just who's the

866
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,480
I guess, sort of the setting the whole thing up goes,

867
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:30,920
oh my god, that's so cool that you're a caddy.

868
00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:33,360
And never in my life have I been told that

869
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,519
caddying is cool. So I did fred what I think

870
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:40,320
any nineteen year old caddie would do in that situation.

871
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,599
I became their secret trainer.

872
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: Now very good.

873
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 3: Now, this was I think a good move on my part.

874
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,239
But it was a dangerous move because the old course

875
00:44:53,519 --> 00:44:56,000
caddies hated the model caddies.

876
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,559
Speaker 1: Oh I bet they were not thrilled about this idea

877
00:44:58,599 --> 00:44:58,880
at all.

878
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: Hated them, uh so jealous, so threatened by them. And

879
00:45:05,559 --> 00:45:08,199
the whole town is so traditional and insular that the

880
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,599
town hated them as well. So this caused a huge controversy.

881
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:14,199
So every time I was walking down the street, I

882
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,079
was in the shack, I was in the supermarket, I

883
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,880
was hearing just put downs of the model caddies, and

884
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,320
I was hearing, you know, just like insults every day,

885
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,760
and I had to play along with it. When I

886
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,159
was in the shack, I had to be like, oh yeah,

887
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,239
oh god, that's so stupid. They think they can caddy.

888
00:45:29,559 --> 00:45:33,079
But every night I was going onto the Jubilee Course,

889
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:34,679
which is like a course right next to the Old

890
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,400
at night, and I was training model.

891
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:41,119
Speaker 1: Caddies and riding home.

892
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 3: Tell your friends if the first summer was the best summer?

893
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,119
Speaker 1: Got pictures of that in the book.

894
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:48,159
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, we do have a picture. We do

895
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:48,760
have a picture.

896
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,639
Speaker 1: Wait minute, Well, wait, what page is that on? I

897
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,639
want to see these model caddies. Where are they?

898
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 3: They're in the middle of the book, open too.

899
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: Okay, And there's a young training caddies sunburn in the ship.

900
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:05,559
Rick McKenzie, a good old Rick. Yeah. Okay, yeah, I'm

901
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:06,480
not seeing anymore.

902
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,159
Speaker 3: Okay, keep you on. One more page, two more pages.

903
00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: Two more pages. There's people sleeping on the fairway. There's

904
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:19,280
hello oh yeah, oh hello. Yeah. All right, so listen,

905
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,000
you got to get the book for yourself, folks, because

906
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:24,760
I'm not I'm not sharing this copy. Oh they are

907
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,800
beautiful girls. Oh yeah, and they're and clearly they're models.

908
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,440
I mean they are styling here, they're striking a pose.

909
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 3: They are doing blue steel.

910
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,679
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, that is hilarious.

911
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: And this became this became a huge, a huge thing,

912
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,559
huge part of my summer and became increasingly dangerous every

913
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:48,800
single day for me to be involved in this. And

914
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,519
I'm not going to tell you how it uh, how

915
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:53,840
it played out, but it did become a little too

916
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,480
dramatic for what I wanted that summer.

917
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it always does, it always does. Hope, will you

918
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,159
have some sort of memory and you can not get

919
00:47:02,159 --> 00:47:04,800
yourself in much more trouble than you did at that time.

920
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:07,559
Speaker 3: And we want to know something, Fred I think. I

921
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:09,559
think to this day most of the caddies did not

922
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,880
know that I was the trainer. They knew there was

923
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,519
an anonymous trainer. This will be one of the things

924
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:15,679
that I think a lot of people are going to

925
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:16,880
find out in the book.

926
00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:20,639
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's great. So then you you may not

927
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,159
want to go back next summer.

928
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 3: Might bring a bodyguard when I go back. Yeah no, no,

929
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,360
I can't wait to get back.

930
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: Oh that's great. Well again, the book is called an

931
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,840
American Caddy in Saint Andrew's Growing Up, Girls and Looping

932
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,480
on the Old Course by our guess, Oliver Horowitz, a

933
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,239
young ambitious man who, uh, you know, when you're done

934
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,679
caddying and you're not going to have a professional golf career,

935
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,480
what are you going to do? Man, I don't know.

936
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 3: Maybe some exotic dancing.

937
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: Okay, well you can call the models back and they'll

938
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,440
train you. What do you think, good idea?

939
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: Huh, I love it. We should go on, we should

940
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:57,599
go on tour together. That's great.

941
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, there you go. And speaking of

942
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,719
tours here in the United States, you were alluding to something,

943
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,000
Can you share it with us?

944
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,079
Speaker 3: Absolutely? It be my pleasure. So this summer I'm doing

945
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a tour of different golf clubs around the country, going

946
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,280
to tons of different golf clubs, and we're doing an

947
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,719
evening I'm calling a Taste of Scotland. So it's basically

948
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,760
an hour of my best catty stories, tell you what

949
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,920
about my experiences growing up amongst all the old Scottish guys,

950
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,679
and more importantly, I'm giving everyone insider advice for planning

951
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,920
a golf trip to Scotland, So like, where you should stay,

952
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,280
where you should play, kind of all the cool stuff

953
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,360
I've picked up, and we're combining it with a Scotch

954
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,840
tasting ah to give it a real authentic Scottish feel.

955
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: Awesome, Yeah, awesome. And where are you doing these talks.

956
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,559
Speaker 3: We're going to be on the West coast near San Francisco.

957
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,840
I'm going to be all over the Northeast. We're looking

958
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:59,119
at some places in the Midwest as well, in Tennessee.

959
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,400
So basically, if you're if you want me to come

960
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,920
to your golf club, get in contact and we might

961
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:05,760
be able to make it happen.

962
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: Perfect Well, there's a couple of ways. You can go

963
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,119
ahead and click on the Heyfred button at golfsmarter dot com.

964
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:14,199
If you want to send me an email, I can

965
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,199
forward it off to Oliver and check out his book please.

966
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,280
And you may want to have him at your golf course.

967
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,440
He'd be happy to come out there and tell you

968
00:49:23,559 --> 00:49:27,840
more stories. The book is available on the golfers maart

969
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,000
at golfsmarter dot com and our Amazon section our book section,

970
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:32,800
so if you want to pick up the book please,

971
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,599
you can get the kindle version or the hard copy version. Oliver,

972
00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:38,880
I wish you the best of luck and everything that

973
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,920
you do. Man. This is a great start for you

974
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,480
and a very entertaining book. I highly recommend it. Thanks

975
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:46,159
so much for spending this time with us.

976
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:48,519
Speaker 3: My pleasure, Fred, And if you ever need a caddy,

977
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:50,119
you know where to You know where to turn.