WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You're a gobbling the demon a bull merchard.

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<v Speaker 2>You saw me?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your dude? Is this your person on the web?

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<v Speaker 2>I need a gender jew.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't take and choice yourself?

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<v Speaker 2>You saw me on you dude? Is this.

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<v Speaker 1>It comes out of the dog the tree? Why do

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<v Speaker 1>you pray eat the dead people? That's the traditions? A

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<v Speaker 1>madden you heretic?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, you dude? Is this your.

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<v Speaker 1>Person on the web?

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<v Speaker 3>I need a gender jew can't he's a little dear

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<v Speaker 3>So boys, you dudemic justification.

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<v Speaker 4>Circular two.

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<v Speaker 5>It's not crafty, Jamie?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you make me? I express?

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<v Speaker 6>So?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're gonna open it up. Let's keep it on topic.

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<v Speaker 1>One plus one plus one equal three. Icons are idealatry

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<v Speaker 1>Jay j But Jay?

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<v Speaker 2>Can I talk?

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<v Speaker 7>But it wasn't next cathod Rave God is real?

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<v Speaker 8>WI?

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<v Speaker 9>Does he allow evil? I?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men? It's

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<v Speaker 1>a no brainer. You're such a tyrannical rainer.

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<v Speaker 10>Is this your.

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<v Speaker 8>First time on the in or well?

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<v Speaker 1>I need a change, can't take it these loads your

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<v Speaker 1>slow boys? Is this your first time on the wesh?

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<v Speaker 2>Did I need to changer? Joe?

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<v Speaker 8>Was that an uncreated foot?

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<v Speaker 7>Fart A mute dude, Stop repeating my name, dude, you

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<v Speaker 7>goober's callin or I'll boot you. Where did we get

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<v Speaker 7>the Bible from? Have you read the Cannons of Francia?

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<v Speaker 3>What are you Catholic?

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<v Speaker 5>Are you Prosians?

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<v Speaker 7>I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

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<v Speaker 7>an actual argument?

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<v Speaker 2>There is only one church.

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<v Speaker 7>You are in a cult, You're a goblin, a demon,

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<v Speaker 7>a boomer?

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<v Speaker 5>Quick question?

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<v Speaker 7>Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?

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<v Speaker 1>How is this your first time on being? Or well

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<v Speaker 1>I need to change your shoe. Can't take it these loads?

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<v Speaker 1>You're slow boys?

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<v Speaker 9>Are you?

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<v Speaker 1>Is this your first time on being? Or where I

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<v Speaker 1>need a changer too?

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<v Speaker 11>If you're a wineman in front of the line.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm mute, dude, what.

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<v Speaker 2>Is your epistemic justification?

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<v Speaker 12>That argument is circular and you are refuted.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this your first time on me?

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<v Speaker 9>Or where I need to change your show?

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<v Speaker 1>Can't take it these loads? You're slow boys?

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<v Speaker 8>You?

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<v Speaker 1>Is this your first time on me? Or where I

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<v Speaker 1>need to change your show?

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a lie moan front of.

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<v Speaker 9>A line on mute dude, Yeah, there's only one thing

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<v Speaker 9>that can bring them law together.

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<v Speaker 5>That begins with you, but where it begins with you

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<v Speaker 5>not give. I'm gonna say the word gives away, Begin

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<v Speaker 5>the chance golf up.

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<v Speaker 13>Bankers get on the floor.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks, give a pot.

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<v Speaker 2>Bankers give him pain. Baker, give name your name.

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<v Speaker 13>I want to see you ask the floor sees, get

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<v Speaker 13>more hose, give pain, give my boots give.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to see the CEOs.

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<v Speaker 5>It ruin those slides in a arnderd and forty one.

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<v Speaker 1>And tell the monkeys you find off in that.

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<v Speaker 13>Tree what you're doing up there? Why you scared? Why

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<v Speaker 13>you running from every bad? You ran from the true

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<v Speaker 13>and from me?

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<v Speaker 3>Like the female monkeys mis doumbanatas between the trees hanging.

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<v Speaker 1>Down upside down. That's smile.

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<v Speaker 14>Side.

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<v Speaker 5>Tell the monkey what.

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<v Speaker 4>You do it to me?

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<v Speaker 13>T do a monkey, deal a macky.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmmm, oh.

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<v Speaker 5>Now Phil and James Brown, Kurt Franklin, do it to me?

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<v Speaker 13>Till it parkay whoa.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh, welcome everybody. It's a Saturday night. Why not do it?

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<v Speaker 5>Why not open it up? Is there any there's one

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<v Speaker 5>more song? There's a mk ultra version of the Matt

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<v Speaker 5>Dylanukey song.

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<v Speaker 15>Monkey you climb up in that tree, what you're doing

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<v Speaker 15>up there while you scared, while you.

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<v Speaker 1>Running from every debate, you and from Andrew and from me.

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<v Speaker 15>Adla monkey, what you're doing to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Down?

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<v Speaker 5>Nobody wants to come to debate. Everybody's running away as

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<v Speaker 5>soon as they done got here.

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<v Speaker 2>Beer beer.

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<v Speaker 5>We'll keep the local starships, star colonies in line. Beer

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<v Speaker 5>is a mind.

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<v Speaker 11>Killer, telling the monkey, all right, people are running away,

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<v Speaker 11>what's this crap.

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<v Speaker 1>Crip?

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<v Speaker 5>Fifty five people in line and we've only got two

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<v Speaker 5>people who want to come on and do the debates.

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<v Speaker 5>He wont okay. One dude came back. He came back.

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<v Speaker 5>We've got a couple of super chats and then I'm

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<v Speaker 5>gonna open it up right way. Bulpez five dollars, bruh,

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<v Speaker 5>give me a terms McKenna impression. Talking about tahi, Well,

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<v Speaker 5>taw hid is when you can't talk about the unity

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<v Speaker 5>of the being because it's essentially a hidden deity, hence

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<v Speaker 5>the term taw hid h. Brossi, five dollars, make it

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<v Speaker 5>fiat clap, make that fiat clap, Zammoxist, five dollars. It's

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<v Speaker 5>the year of love.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a year of love.

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<v Speaker 4>Huh.

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<v Speaker 5>I can't sing with my perfect hair metal inflection like

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<v Speaker 5>I would like to because I still have a cold,

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<v Speaker 5>but it's almost gone. Eric Ze two dollars. I like

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<v Speaker 5>this dream. That means it's an algorithm push. That's what

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<v Speaker 5>I like to hear. He knows the nature of the

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<v Speaker 5>industry and the business. You know what I'm saying. He

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<v Speaker 5>knows how to industry, how the industry work. Yes, you

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<v Speaker 5>can still super chat with stream laves. Mister B see

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<v Speaker 5>me see me, Holy Holy said, we got some perves

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<v Speaker 5>up in the chat already, Holy says, let me see

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<v Speaker 5>them toes? Oh, oh all you get today? You get some.

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<v Speaker 5>I'll show you my toes. But there they're only going

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<v Speaker 5>to be They're modest toes because they're covered. Get it,

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<v Speaker 5>they're covered because I got sock some modest toes. We

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<v Speaker 5>got a bunch of people online. I'm wanna go to

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<v Speaker 5>all these people piling mister B ten dollars. I saw redditor.

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<v Speaker 5>He said that Matt deal Honey really want the debate. Well,

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<v Speaker 5>I guess that's it. I guess it's over. If a

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<v Speaker 5>person on Reddit said, then Matt del Honey won, I

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<v Speaker 5>guess that's the it's over. He won. This rhetitor said

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<v Speaker 5>that even though MAT's arguments weren't very good. He was right,

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<v Speaker 5>so he won the debate. Yeah, there we go. That

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<v Speaker 5>sounds about like what I would expect from that vibe,

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<v Speaker 5>from that vibe from that Reddit community. H Brosie five dollars.

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<v Speaker 5>Some of the cringe cores songs are flat out hard

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<v Speaker 5>like bankers. That stuff is objectively project pat certified. I

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<v Speaker 5>like that techno remix that sal did of bankers. That's

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<v Speaker 5>pretty hardcore, dude. What is your episomic justification for quantum skimmity?

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<v Speaker 5>Toilet says, it's JA, It's DJ for five dollars. I

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<v Speaker 5>can't talk today. I don't even know what's going on.

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<v Speaker 5>Torren loves Jesus. Let's go, Jay. I'm glad you got

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<v Speaker 5>monet eyes, not monetized monent eyes. Thank you. I enjoy

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<v Speaker 5>being monent eyed. Voice of reasons face in the thumbnail

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<v Speaker 5>got me laughing. You wrong for that.

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<v Speaker 16>I ain't doing nothing. I ain't do nothing what you

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<v Speaker 16>think ID need? I ain't doing nothing. I don't know

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<v Speaker 16>what the hell voice that was supposed to be. I

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<v Speaker 16>was making a joke to Tristan that when he becomes

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<v Speaker 16>a black gay performer that I've already figured out the

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<v Speaker 16>caddy gossipy kind of RuPaul character name that it would be.

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<v Speaker 16>And when Tristan becomes a caddy RuPaul gossipy black performer,

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<v Speaker 16>his name is gonna be Invinity. It's a combination of

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<v Speaker 16>envy and infinity because Tristan has infinite envy, so he's Invinity.

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<v Speaker 5>But he's like RuPaul. That's how he would laugh. So

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<v Speaker 5>that's what that character was. I just realized, Bryce Shay

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<v Speaker 5>five dollars if God real, Why yet Yakoub make white

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<v Speaker 5>race a challenging question, a fair question, a question that

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<v Speaker 5>any apologist worth his metal would struggle to answer. I

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<v Speaker 5>can't even keep up. There's so many the superchats are

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<v Speaker 5>just rolling in. I'm trying to get to them all. No,

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<v Speaker 5>that's it, thank y'all, welcome everybody. We got my more

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<v Speaker 5>super chests rolling in. John Kel says for twenty us

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<v Speaker 5>made I FIEI Klap. Everybody likes the techno version of

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<v Speaker 5>that song, but it's sh it's beating out my original

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<v Speaker 5>nineteen ninety three, like a euro dance version of it.

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<v Speaker 5>So I was gonna go to it, but maybe not.

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<v Speaker 5>We'll never get anywhere if I keep playing music all day.

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<v Speaker 5>But thank y'all, welcome. Everybody got five hundred chad Nerds

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<v Speaker 5>in the chat. You can sign up, by the way,

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<v Speaker 5>become a chad Nerd member on YouTube memberships. We've only

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<v Speaker 5>been monetized for like nine or ten days and we

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<v Speaker 5>already got almost two hundred members. That's crazy. Do is

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<v Speaker 5>our stream health okay? What's going on? It seems like

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<v Speaker 5>it says it's okay? Is it skipping because I tried

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<v Speaker 5>to fix the uh?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh?

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<v Speaker 5>I guess it's about his best, the best we're gonna get.

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<v Speaker 5>Mister b twenty bucks Jay, when he learned that his

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<v Speaker 5>channel got monetized, Jay, he remembered, this community full of

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<v Speaker 5>acoustic spurgs? Is that standing for autism? And he has

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<v Speaker 5>to read out all this garbage. I wouldn't characterize the

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<v Speaker 5>beloved super chatters as garbage. All right now? Is it

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<v Speaker 5>gonna start dropping down the streame stream Health? I mean

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<v Speaker 5>as long as we as long as y'all can hear me.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't need to see my face. Because I tried

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<v Speaker 5>to up the bit rate. I thought that might help.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know if it's gonna work or not. Somebody said,

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<v Speaker 5>I work for Verizon, Call me and I'll help you.

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<v Speaker 5>How are you gonna help, dude, it's not a Verizon problem.

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<v Speaker 5>You think I haven't had then Comcast or whoever it

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<v Speaker 5>is out here like ten times and you just can't.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, there's no I don't know what the answer is.

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<v Speaker 5>If you try to live stream, it doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 5>consistent bit rate. It goes down and then it pops up,

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<v Speaker 5>and then it drops back up, drops some meccap, drop

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<v Speaker 5>some mecca and that's all it's ever been here. And

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<v Speaker 5>I've I've had them out here I don't know how

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<v Speaker 5>many times, and the workers don't even know what it is.

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<v Speaker 5>So I can lower the bit rate and it still

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<v Speaker 5>does all the same stuff. So David Flood want gifted

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<v Speaker 5>out member ships demas gifting it out. Elder Leon elder

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<v Speaker 5>lyon Leon hed he stringer, got some new ways, Hey

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<v Speaker 5>he's stranger, got some new gimmicks. Got a bit of

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<v Speaker 5>press up for you. Skipped frames for in two minutes,

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<v Speaker 5>John Kel, do another goal? Do we already meet that goal? Okay,

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<v Speaker 5>start another goal? How about I almost set this. I

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<v Speaker 5>almost set this like super high magenta goal for three hours.

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<v Speaker 5>That was a ten super chest for over fifty dollars.

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<v Speaker 5>When I make like a thousand dollars on the stream.

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<v Speaker 5>You're gonna get your next impression. I'm trying to get

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<v Speaker 5>the started. We get somebody super chats rolling in, which

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<v Speaker 5>is fine with me. Do another goal, okay, don John Kell,

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<v Speaker 5>thank you so much. Jr. Hasbro five books. I'm looking

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<v Speaker 5>forward to Esoteric Colly with part three. Are you gonna

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<v Speaker 5>mention raising Kine especially directors cut. Yes, there's gonna be

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<v Speaker 5>a diploment section and we're gonna be talking about raising Kine.

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<v Speaker 5>We're gonna talk about the fury. We'll talk about what's

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<v Speaker 5>that one with the due that kind of goes mind

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<v Speaker 5>control crazy over prawn. We took notes on I forget

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<v Speaker 5>the name of it, discord what's up? Shout out? Open

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<v Speaker 5>up the task manager and check the performance. You don't

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<v Speaker 5>about the task manager in YouTube studio, it just says

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<v Speaker 5>stream health poor. The task manager in stream labs will

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<v Speaker 5>just say skip frames detected forty six percent last two minutes.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's always the same. John Kell, fifty bucks, thank

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<v Speaker 5>you so much. Appreciate that. What percentage is the computer

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<v Speaker 5>running it? I don't think it's a computer problem. Computer's

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<v Speaker 5>running at like twenty thirty percent. It says see I

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<v Speaker 5>can see the stream rate and it drops to three thousand,

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<v Speaker 5>and it goes up to six thousand, and it'll stay

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<v Speaker 5>at about six thousand and then it'll drop to three

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<v Speaker 5>thousand and come back. And it's always done that ever

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<v Speaker 5>since I've lived here, and it doesn't matter how many

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<v Speaker 5>times people come out here. There is no known solution.

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<v Speaker 5>So I mean, it'll go up to twelve thousand kilobites

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<v Speaker 5>a second, then I'll say your string quality is good

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<v Speaker 5>seven thousand, and then boom, it drops the three and

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<v Speaker 5>then it comes back. So nobody knows what's up. We

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<v Speaker 5>got over a thousand people, everybody, uh has piled up

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<v Speaker 5>in it. Let's get Let's get it started. Let's get

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<v Speaker 5>it started. Let's get it started. Antonios benderos.

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<v Speaker 17>Hi Jay, good, good to you, You having a good

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<v Speaker 17>start to you. Thanks for taking my queriod's random Yeah vaccine. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 17>I'll try not be too week this time.

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<v Speaker 16>But I got some new ways, got some new ways

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<v Speaker 16>for yah.

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<v Speaker 18>Yeah right, Jack, Jesus, excuse really sorry the bless from

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<v Speaker 18>you forever and here. I was just wondering if you've

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<v Speaker 18>read anywhere about any discussion about Adam and Eve in

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<v Speaker 18>the sense of when overall and potentially metaphysics, but things

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<v Speaker 18>about that.

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<v Speaker 5>I had not I mean, are you referring to the soul?

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<v Speaker 19>Yeah, yeah, potentially, Like.

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<v Speaker 18>The way I said, it is definitely separate soul that

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<v Speaker 18>Eve would have had, assuming that we all follow from

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<v Speaker 18>Adam and Eve and that's how things would have been

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<v Speaker 18>handed down to us thereafter. But you know, God breed

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<v Speaker 18>life into Adam, and you know, perpetual life would have

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<v Speaker 18>gone through that. But there was no specific sort of

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<v Speaker 18>like mentioned as to when the soul comes to Eve,

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<v Speaker 18>if it would have been inside Adam from the beginning

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<v Speaker 18>or if as soon as she was created, because I.

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<v Speaker 8>Guess I could ask you could beg to say.

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<v Speaker 18>Like when does life actually begin even when it comes

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<v Speaker 18>to you know about by bulls and things like that.

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<v Speaker 18>So I'm just wondering if this, if it'd been any

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<v Speaker 18>discussions on when she received her.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know about Eve, but I mean, Saint Maximus

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<v Speaker 5>teaches that the soul is created at the moment of conception.

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<v Speaker 5>But thank you for that magic, Mike Orthodox and Man

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<v Speaker 5>Stripper A country to come up in here?

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<v Speaker 2>Eh eh okay, hear, yeah? What's about a question about

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<v Speaker 2>price up? And then I wanted to go where I

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<v Speaker 2>disagree about salvation?

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<v Speaker 20>So I know you take the presuppositional approach in terms

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<v Speaker 20>of apologetic methodology, but you like, you know, you rely

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<v Speaker 20>on Presbyterian reform guys that has been to gourgy Boston.

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<v Speaker 2>So where do you disagree with them?

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<v Speaker 5>And pretty so, where did transcendental arguments come from?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm just trying to learn about it.

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<v Speaker 5>So so who do you think was the first two

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<v Speaker 5>positive transit arguments? You don't know? No, Okay, well they're

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<v Speaker 5>in Aristotle.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay.

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<v Speaker 5>John Ascus refers to transit argument of the very beginning

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<v Speaker 5>of founton Knowledge. Felis he uses transcendental argument. So there's

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<v Speaker 5>nothing necessarily about transit augmentation that it makes it the

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<v Speaker 5>property of the reformed. Furthermore, an argument stands on its own,

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<v Speaker 5>and it doesn't really matter what group makes the argument, right,

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<v Speaker 5>So do you know about the genetic fallacy?

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<v Speaker 20>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, what's the genetic fallacy? What's the genetic it's like

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<v Speaker 5>when the particular group? Yeah? Right, So what does that

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<v Speaker 5>have to do with whether it's true or not? Hello?

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<v Speaker 5>Are you there?

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<v Speaker 8>Yo?

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<v Speaker 20>In priest oppositional apologetics like their storting part of their

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<v Speaker 20>methodology kind of relies upon tulip and total depravity and

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<v Speaker 20>how there's no like neutral route, neutral ground and things

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<v Speaker 20>like that.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, there's plenty of philosophers who teach that the reality

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<v Speaker 5>is not theory neutral. So are they all Calvinists? Uh no, Right,

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<v Speaker 5>So there's nothing about theory neutrality. There's nothing about transit

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<v Speaker 5>argumentation or any of that that necessitates Calvinism. And that's

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<v Speaker 5>why I always argue that it's the.

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<v Speaker 20>So okay, okay, So how do you understand? So I

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<v Speaker 20>need to talk about salvation and orthodoxy? So how do

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<v Speaker 20>you understand I've heard your lectures to you any how,

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<v Speaker 20>you say that faith alone, justification by faith alone isn't

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<v Speaker 20>true because the person when they come to Jesus Christ,

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<v Speaker 20>they don't go through metaphysical change in themselves.

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<v Speaker 12>Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 5>That's part of it?

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So how so let's say when that happens?

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<v Speaker 20>Right, So, like, and how do you know, like how

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<v Speaker 20>much how many how much work do you have to

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<v Speaker 20>do to be like metaphysically go through a change and

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<v Speaker 20>be justified in God's eyes?

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<v Speaker 5>In your view, well, Christ's life is the paradigm model,

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<v Speaker 5>and so there's always synergy between the human nature and

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<v Speaker 5>the divine nature. And that's why, for example, all the

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<v Speaker 5>early Church fathers and even the first generate baptism is

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<v Speaker 5>a work. This necessary repentance is a work that's necessary.

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<v Speaker 5>Jesus says that this is the work of God that

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<v Speaker 5>you believe on Him whom he has sent. So faith

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<v Speaker 5>in Christ is also we flesh it out like all

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<v Speaker 5>of these works are necessary to be saying. Peter says,

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<v Speaker 5>an act to repent and be baptized for the remission

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<v Speaker 5>of sins. And we know he's talking about water baptism

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<v Speaker 5>because they immediately do water baptism, so it's not a

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<v Speaker 5>secret Calvinist regeneration baptism. It's actual water baptism. Titus three

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<v Speaker 5>calls it the washing of regeneration. So all of those

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<v Speaker 5>things are the beginning point of salvation. Salvation is a pross,

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<v Speaker 5>one time thing. It's your whole life, and it's the

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<v Speaker 5>escton ultimately.

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<v Speaker 20>Sure, so let me just go back to the point

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<v Speaker 20>you mentioned about the spiritual baptism, right, So when you

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<v Speaker 20>read the Book of Acts and they get the tour

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<v Speaker 20>this start of the book, they get the spirit. What

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<v Speaker 20>is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They weren't

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<v Speaker 20>physically baptized in water.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no mention of that.

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<v Speaker 5>So how does you have no idea what you're talking

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<v Speaker 5>about if you're not read Acts too. I specifically started

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<v Speaker 5>Acts two thirty people right after that, which is why

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<v Speaker 5>I said, that's how we know they're talking about water baptism.

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<v Speaker 5>Pentecost is not a spiritual baptism separate from something else

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<v Speaker 5>that's the coming of the Holy Spirit and power. And

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<v Speaker 5>when Peter preaches at Pentecost, what does he tell the

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<v Speaker 5>people in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>Envy baptized?

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<v Speaker 5>Is that okay? And then what is what is he

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<v Speaker 5>talking about?

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<v Speaker 19>There?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it?

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<v Speaker 5>You're telling me that's not water baptism, even though they

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<v Speaker 5>literally baptize the people in water right after that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I know I do get that that is

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<v Speaker 2>water baptism for you.

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<v Speaker 20>Just said it's not water baptism though, No, No, I'm

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<v Speaker 20>talking about earlier in the Acts chapter. I'm talking about

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<v Speaker 20>the apostoms of Apostles himself, who water baptized the Apostles because.

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<v Speaker 5>Beat boots in weeks that's what Jesus promised, and Acts

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<v Speaker 5>becue me and John fourteen fifty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 2>That they get water baptized.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, they didn't have to be baptized because they're the

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<v Speaker 5>beginning of the foundation stones of the church and Jesus

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<v Speaker 5>tells them to baptize.

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<v Speaker 19>Okay, fair point.

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<v Speaker 5>And also water baptism didn't occur with anybody in the

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<v Speaker 5>Old Covenant, and they're all saved in the same way.

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<v Speaker 5>That doesn't mean that after this point, that's not the

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<v Speaker 5>means by which regeneration occurs.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, fair point.

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<v Speaker 20>Yeah, But I have another question about salivation buf faith alone. Right, So,

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<v Speaker 20>like what is the position of works in your and

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<v Speaker 20>your understanding? Like, like, for example, I'm talking about just

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<v Speaker 20>the centification, right, is scientification necessary for justification? But if

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<v Speaker 20>you say in works to be to be justified, I mean,

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<v Speaker 20>I know you're talking you say that, you know, like

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<v Speaker 20>coming to repent.

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<v Speaker 5>The mistake is that you're you think of justification as

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<v Speaker 5>a legal status and it's not. It's part of a

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<v Speaker 5>that's part of the analogy. But in Romans four, when

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<v Speaker 5>Paul cites Genesis fifteen, that's after Abraham has already been

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<v Speaker 5>doing three chapters of good works. So Abraham should not

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<v Speaker 5>have men justified quote unquote in Genesis fifteen. If you're

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<v Speaker 5>reading of Romans for is correct see Romans for refutes

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<v Speaker 5>the Calvinist interpretation. Do you understand what I mean by

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<v Speaker 5>that argument?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, I get that.

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<v Speaker 20>So like if you're so, how do you understand like

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<v Speaker 20>to the Calvinistic Channe in Romans when he talks about

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<v Speaker 20>you know you were justified and then he also just

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<v Speaker 20>says that you know you were you were called justifies

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<v Speaker 20>and then glorified. It's all like linked together, it is.

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<v Speaker 5>But what you're missing as a Calvinist is that that's

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<v Speaker 5>written to an actual, visible group of people in Rome,

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<v Speaker 5>as a group of the predestined? Did Paul write in

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<v Speaker 5>Roman Ephicus?

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<v Speaker 2>I can't say it's it's both.

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<v Speaker 5>No, it can be both, because how can he call

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<v Speaker 5>the entire visible group the elect and the predestined because

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<v Speaker 5>they're not.

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<v Speaker 2>What it wouldn't apply to Christians today when he like and.

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<v Speaker 5>The general those have to do with today? Just when

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<v Speaker 5>he writes to the actual church in Ephesus and he

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<v Speaker 5>calls them the predestine, who's he calling the predestine in

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<v Speaker 5>the church writing about the Calvinist view? No, I mean

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<v Speaker 5>the predestined are not the visible church, that's the elect only.

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<v Speaker 2>From from your position.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean Calvinism fails in terms of Christology. That's the

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<v Speaker 5>starting point, because Calvinism begins with the idea of the

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<v Speaker 5>divine decree and soteriology, and so it has the wrong

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<v Speaker 5>order of theology. It has to begin with the Trinity

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<v Speaker 5>and Christology and the in case. That's why you guys

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<v Speaker 5>don't have the essence interistinction, you don't have the real presence.

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<v Speaker 5>You're missing all of these things because you begin your

426
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:42.799
<v Speaker 5>your theology with steriology.

427
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 20>So another question, how do you determine like when how

428
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 20>to interpret in a legal in a legal understanding or not?

429
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.079
<v Speaker 20>Because you know you when when there are lots of salvation,

430
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:55.759
<v Speaker 20>salvation by faith a loan passages, you'll just say that

431
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 20>it's here.

432
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.519
<v Speaker 5>There are no faith a loan passages. There are passages

433
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.240
<v Speaker 5>that say faith not were of law. And in the

434
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.119
<v Speaker 5>concept he's talking about Jewish law. But if you look

435
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.640
<v Speaker 5>at Galatians, Paul says, the only faith that counts as

436
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 5>the one that works through love. So Paul is saying

437
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.759
<v Speaker 5>the same thing as James. It's you guys that have

438
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.440
<v Speaker 5>invented the idea of a purely fictional legal standing. That

439
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:19.519
<v Speaker 5>is your salvation that's what doesn't exist in the ancient

440
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 5>or medieval world. And if you read modern even the

441
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:28.599
<v Speaker 5>conservative Protestant Reformation theologians, whether in the Anglican or in

442
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 5>the Lutheran tradition, like Anglicans like Alstro McGrath or Lutherans

443
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.799
<v Speaker 5>like Haiko Oberman, they all point out how there were

444
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.319
<v Speaker 5>no nominalists in the ancient and medieval world until Aukham

445
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.559
<v Speaker 5>in other words, to call you righteous when you're in

446
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 5>fact wicked and you're covered in these you know, imputational

447
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.920
<v Speaker 5>rags of righteouness, the cover or the hum of the rags,

448
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.359
<v Speaker 5>the righteous of Christ that covers your filthy rags and

449
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.400
<v Speaker 5>all this stuff that's only possible with nominalism. And nobody

450
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.319
<v Speaker 5>in the ancient medieval world was anomalist. So how do

451
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.720
<v Speaker 5>you get God being able to declare people in a

452
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 5>legal status that they don't actually possess in reality?

453
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 20>So okay, So then how do you understand the legal

454
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:11.759
<v Speaker 20>and the forensic language that does use in.

455
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 5>Regardless based on what's actually there?

456
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:17.359
<v Speaker 12>What's actually what do you mean like you're.

457
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.680
<v Speaker 5>Actually made righteous? That's what it's called baptism or regeneration.

458
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.119
<v Speaker 5>The sacraments actually convey the grace.

459
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.599
<v Speaker 20>Okay, So so like, let's say the pious works that

460
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.599
<v Speaker 20>you do, do they contribute to your salvation and scientification?

461
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.559
<v Speaker 20>Or is it just the sacraments that you do in

462
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.160
<v Speaker 20>the Orthodox Church? Like let's say, when you participate in

463
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 20>the sacraments right of the Orthodox Church, are you you're

464
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.559
<v Speaker 20>participating in the uncreated energy right of the.

465
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Correct So what about the.

466
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 20>Let's say, the sacraments that exist, like you know that

467
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.079
<v Speaker 20>are done in other church or yes? Or what so

468
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.119
<v Speaker 20>the uncreated grise only exists in the Orthodox Church, that's your.

469
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.880
<v Speaker 5>Position, Yes, because it is the mystical body of Christ.

470
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.880
<v Speaker 5>So how come like these one Lord, one faith, one

471
00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:59.559
<v Speaker 5>Baptist in one body. There's not twenty thousand, thirty thousand

472
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:00.000
<v Speaker 5>different ways.

473
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.359
<v Speaker 20>Why do you So why would like a Protestant a

474
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.480
<v Speaker 20>Catholic need the uncredited grace.

475
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 5>Of That's this is something that anybody in any religion

476
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.599
<v Speaker 5>can say that they become a morally reformed person or

477
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 5>they're better or I mean, I don't. That's all purely subjective.

478
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 5>I know, I have no idea what you think spiritual

479
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:17.359
<v Speaker 5>growth is.

480
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.359
<v Speaker 20>I mean, okay, sure, but I'm talking about spiritual growth

481
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.400
<v Speaker 20>as in like you know, sinding less and doing.

482
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:27.160
<v Speaker 5>You know, being obedient to God. So now it's salvation

483
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.480
<v Speaker 5>by works. I thought you didn't believe in salvation my works.

484
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.359
<v Speaker 20>No, But I mean I think we're we're as Christians

485
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:35.240
<v Speaker 20>were there to conform to the image of Christ. Right, So, like,

486
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.279
<v Speaker 20>I'm not saying that we're doing these things to be saved.

487
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 20>This is just a byproduct of like, you know, our faith,

488
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:41.759
<v Speaker 20>like in our faith is genuine. That's what we want

489
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.160
<v Speaker 20>to do, the righteous things that God wants us to do.

490
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:50.000
<v Speaker 20>So what do you think about that?

491
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:52.759
<v Speaker 5>Just one second?

492
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

493
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 9>Like what what?

494
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:56.279
<v Speaker 2>Why?

495
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:58.799
<v Speaker 20>Would like you know, why what makes it necessary like

496
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:02.720
<v Speaker 20>the uncreated and urge of Jesus or of the Orthodox Church?

497
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.599
<v Speaker 5>Because the creature can't save us a patient and divine

498
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:10.920
<v Speaker 5>life and immortality. But in moral reform. So ironically, what

499
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:13.079
<v Speaker 5>you're talking about is the proof of the faith is

500
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.440
<v Speaker 5>the very thing that you, as a Calvinist, supposedly shouldn't

501
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:21.160
<v Speaker 5>believe in. We're moving on, TJ. What's up, man? Try

502
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.599
<v Speaker 5>to change the bit rate. Maybe that'll help with whatever's

503
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:23.880
<v Speaker 5>going on.

504
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:40.519
<v Speaker 21>Yeah, O Jay, So I recently left Printocostalism and I've

505
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:41.559
<v Speaker 21>just become a catechumen.

506
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:43.359
<v Speaker 2>I just had a few questions, if that's okay.

507
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:52.319
<v Speaker 21>So I came into Orthodoxy based purely mainly like intellectually

508
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.599
<v Speaker 21>and just through like reading history, and I'm lot and

509
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:58.640
<v Speaker 21>I just wanted to know how to navigate, you know,

510
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 21>going from the vital reality and really taking part in

511
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:03.319
<v Speaker 21>the you know, right.

512
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:05.960
<v Speaker 5>Well, that's so, that's that's right. So it's not Q

513
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:07.519
<v Speaker 5>and A. I'm not trying to be rude too, it's

514
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:12.039
<v Speaker 5>not you know, like catechumen days. So that's a question

515
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:15.680
<v Speaker 5>for you and your spiritual father, going deeper into your

516
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.599
<v Speaker 5>prayer life and all that, you should ask him. That

517
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.960
<v Speaker 5>ash not trying to be rude.

518
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.200
<v Speaker 7>Uh hey, can you hear me?

519
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:25.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

520
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Sweet?

521
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.480
<v Speaker 22>So last when I was on we started talking about

522
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.599
<v Speaker 22>uh sol scriptura. Uh, I'm coming out of Protestantism and

523
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.440
<v Speaker 22>so I've had a couple of things to think about.

524
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.359
<v Speaker 22>And the question that you posed last time was how

525
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:44.240
<v Speaker 22>do I know as a like, sure, not as a

526
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.599
<v Speaker 22>Protestant anymore, but when I was a Protestant, how would

527
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.960
<v Speaker 22>I know that? Matthew wrote Matthew, and I would I

528
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:53.039
<v Speaker 22>was thinking last night, I was like, well, can a

529
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:59.039
<v Speaker 22>Protestants say that by the evidence of scholarly opinion that

530
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.319
<v Speaker 22>we can see that Matthew wrote Mathew, which I guess

531
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:04.839
<v Speaker 22>those scholars were just they would have to defer to

532
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.559
<v Speaker 22>the church anyway.

533
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:09.320
<v Speaker 5>So the evidence is going to be based on the

534
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:16.320
<v Speaker 5>historical transmission, preservation, and self knowledge that the church in

535
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.280
<v Speaker 5>history has. That's the point. So it's missing the point

536
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 5>to say, oh, well, I can go to the consensus

537
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.440
<v Speaker 5>of scholars. And by the way, there's tons of liberal

538
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.119
<v Speaker 5>scholars who probably don't believe that, So how is that

539
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:32.519
<v Speaker 5>going to help anybody figure out canonicity? Apistolic authorship is

540
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.239
<v Speaker 5>only one of the elements that would go into why

541
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.880
<v Speaker 5>Matthew's Gospel be included. There'd be other things too, like

542
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.800
<v Speaker 5>was this gospel read in the Apostolic sees, was it

543
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.480
<v Speaker 5>read in the majority of the sees throughout the empire?

544
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.199
<v Speaker 5>Was it read in electionaries which are liturgical readings and

545
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:51.920
<v Speaker 5>daily readings in the churches. All of these would be

546
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.880
<v Speaker 5>elements as to how and why the Church would or

547
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:59.280
<v Speaker 5>would not have included various books within the Bible. And

548
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 5>the point is that there's no fallible means to base

549
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 5>the Bible on without ending up with a fallible collection,

550
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.519
<v Speaker 5>and thus the Bible becoming fallible. So every president who

551
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:17.960
<v Speaker 5>wants an inerrant infallible Bible is just continuing to spin

552
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:21.480
<v Speaker 5>the hamster wheel, missing the point that the argument is

553
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 5>not just oh, you need a church to tell you

554
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 5>the canon. The argument is that you cannot actually get

555
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 5>the autograph of the ones that Paul wrote, the ones

556
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:33.880
<v Speaker 5>that Matthew wrote, without assuming that the church within history,

557
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 5>after the death of the Apostles for centuries accurately preserved

558
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.280
<v Speaker 5>copied the Bible.

559
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Sure, it's like you said before that like what is

560
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the grid to choose?

561
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:50.639
<v Speaker 12>Also what scholar to follow?

562
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.880
<v Speaker 22>So if you're a Protestant, since you don't have really

563
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:59.320
<v Speaker 22>apistemological kind of lens to point to, like, oh, well,

564
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.400
<v Speaker 22>I have an inbound source because you know, Sproul says

565
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:07.400
<v Speaker 22>the dumb axiom of fallible collection of infallible book. I

566
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:09.159
<v Speaker 22>have to sit there and claim, well, I guess it's

567
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.800
<v Speaker 22>just fallible means that get me my infallible books.

568
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.079
<v Speaker 5>That doesn't make any sense.

569
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.559
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, I'm saying. The Protestant would have to

570
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:17.519
<v Speaker 2>sit there, and if they.

571
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.039
<v Speaker 12>Were honest with themselves, they would say, okay, I received.

572
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.599
<v Speaker 2>My books, my sixty six books.

573
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.920
<v Speaker 22>The Protestant canon by fallible means, by the means of

574
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:31.840
<v Speaker 22>the scholars that I pick the history that I.

575
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:34.400
<v Speaker 5>Pick, right, So it's a non sequit or to then

576
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:38.800
<v Speaker 5>say that if the Bible is based on that, then

577
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:39.960
<v Speaker 5>it can't be infallible.

578
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:41.440
<v Speaker 12>That's what I'm saying.

579
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, it's just chaos. Okay, that's the question

580
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:45.559
<v Speaker 2>I had.

581
00:36:45.639 --> 00:37:15.760
<v Speaker 4>Thanks Man, good Hill, old Gunhild, Gunhild.

582
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 9>Are you there?

583
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:27.679
<v Speaker 2>Let me.

584
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.719
<v Speaker 5>You have to turn your mic on. Man, I don't like,

585
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't know where you guys as nobody used to

586
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:01.000
<v Speaker 5>a space.

587
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:09.519
<v Speaker 2>And are Hey, Jake, I have a question.

588
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.880
<v Speaker 23>I want so I want to be Orthodox, but I

589
00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 23>have questions about rebaptism and and just kind of rigorism

590
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:24.280
<v Speaker 23>in general rocre generally. Uh you know they I know,

591
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:27.079
<v Speaker 23>I know it's a pejorative to call it corrective baptism.

592
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:30.880
<v Speaker 23>But if I came from a Roman Catholic background and

593
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:35.519
<v Speaker 23>they want to do that, what are the consequences of that?

594
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:36.840
<v Speaker 2>And do you find it?

595
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.599
<v Speaker 5>Why would there be consequences? What do you mean why

596
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.679
<v Speaker 5>would you not just submit to what your elders are

597
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:42.519
<v Speaker 5>telling you? What do you mean?

598
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So I guess that's my question. So I should

599
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:45.559
<v Speaker 2>just do that.

600
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and this is yeah, and it's not it's not

601
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:49.519
<v Speaker 5>I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just

602
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:53.679
<v Speaker 5>it's not catechumen, ethic unite. It's debate night. But yeah,

603
00:38:53.800 --> 00:39:00.760
<v Speaker 5>just submit to your elders. Cornelius. What's up, Elder ten dollars.

604
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:02.679
<v Speaker 5>I learned a lot about orthodoxally the past few months

605
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:04.880
<v Speaker 5>lurking in your book recommendations. Thank you, thank you, man.

606
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:05.480
<v Speaker 5>I appreciate that.

607
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:06.639
<v Speaker 2>Jay.

608
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.199
<v Speaker 5>I've been remember hold on, I've been remember your website.

609
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 5>Mister Anderson three dollars tried to watch the full video

610
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:14.559
<v Speaker 5>on history of the Left, and it brought me to

611
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.159
<v Speaker 5>the YouTube it says I need to be a member. Yeah.

612
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 5>I realized that after I started making the YouTube lectures

613
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.079
<v Speaker 5>Members video that the people who are on the website

614
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.880
<v Speaker 5>are not going to get that. You still have all

615
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.159
<v Speaker 5>the audio, and I've only done it to five videos,

616
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 5>so you're not I mean, it's just me talking anyway,

617
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:36.440
<v Speaker 5>so you might as well just listen to the audio.

618
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.280
<v Speaker 5>But I'm gonna have to figure out how to do that.

619
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.119
<v Speaker 5>I guess I'm about to have to make a copy.

620
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:45.840
<v Speaker 5>Anytime I move a video from YouTube private to members

621
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 5>I'll have to make a copy for drought boxing and

622
00:39:50.199 --> 00:40:01.000
<v Speaker 5>for the website. What's up, man, Yes, sir, you.

623
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:07.360
<v Speaker 24>Have criticized the pope for kissing the Quran, I think

624
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:08.800
<v Speaker 24>for the second.

625
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.760
<v Speaker 5>Yet I've gone way deeper than that. I think that's

626
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:17.000
<v Speaker 5>pretty good. I know, I know, I know, mild compared

627
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:18.199
<v Speaker 5>to a lot of the other criticisms.

628
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:19.760
<v Speaker 20>I know, I know, I know.

629
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:24.000
<v Speaker 24>But what I wanted to say. I saw a video

630
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:32.199
<v Speaker 24>on YouTube of Patriarch Carell who was in a children hospital.

631
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:38.480
<v Speaker 24>It's all on Russian, but he was in the children's

632
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 24>hospital and said I translated into English. He said, he said, therefore,

633
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:52.599
<v Speaker 24>pray with all your heart and ask the Lord for help.

634
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.719
<v Speaker 2>I know that both Christians and Muslims are here.

635
00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:00.519
<v Speaker 24>Each one addresses the same God, the Creator, and response

636
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.320
<v Speaker 24>to this we receive real divine help.

637
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 5>I don't have a problem saying that. I don't have

638
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.519
<v Speaker 5>a problem saying he can get things wrong. And do

639
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:13.400
<v Speaker 5>you think the Orthodox system of theology is the same

640
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:14.679
<v Speaker 5>as the Roman Catholic system.

641
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 24>So for clarification, I'm Serbian Orthodox, I'm not Catholic.

642
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.440
<v Speaker 5>Okay, so what's the point.

643
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I have a problem with with this.

644
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.159
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I just I just agreed that it's wrong.

645
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:41.000
<v Speaker 8>So so you did you agree with him or do you?

646
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 5>Of course I don't agree with that. I just said

647
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:44.400
<v Speaker 5>he can be.

648
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Wrong, Okay, Okay.

649
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:54.679
<v Speaker 24>Don't you think it should be addressed by other patriarchs like.

650
00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Porphylia from Serbia?

651
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I don't know, I think him, but I would

652
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:01.760
<v Speaker 5>imagine it ought to.

653
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Be m hmm. It's seven years old. I don't know

654
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.760
<v Speaker 2>if you believe me of what I called it.

655
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:12.800
<v Speaker 5>I don't know that. I don't know Russian, but like

656
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.760
<v Speaker 5>either way, whether it's translated accurately or not, Like, yes,

657
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 5>I'm sure there's a humanist tendencies like Hilary and Alfia.

658
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:26.639
<v Speaker 5>He had a humanist tendency, so I'm sure he said

659
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.960
<v Speaker 5>a lot of wrong things too, mm hmm.

660
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah.

661
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:37.639
<v Speaker 24>So the argument from you is that the patriarch doesn't

662
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:43.719
<v Speaker 24>isn't available like Catholic streame for the pope, and therefore

663
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.559
<v Speaker 24>if he says something wrong, it doesn't destroy Althodo.

664
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Did I get Detroit? Yeah?

665
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:52.760
<v Speaker 5>The whole church is not built on the faith of

666
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:58.679
<v Speaker 5>the guy in Rome m h. Whereas Vatican, Vatican One,

667
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.559
<v Speaker 5>nor any of them, but in One builds everything on

668
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.760
<v Speaker 5>what is happening with Francis.

669
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, okay, mm hm m hm m.

670
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 5>That's said, thank you, sure, fair question, he roes. What's up. No,

671
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.480
<v Speaker 5>I don't accept that Islam is a Brahmic. I don't

672
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:37.079
<v Speaker 5>believe that at all. I mean, I made this argument

673
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:44.159
<v Speaker 5>hundreds of times. What's up? He's having hard time connecting?

674
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:55.519
<v Speaker 12>Can you hear me?

675
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:01.519
<v Speaker 25>I just wanted to ask. I was reading something Beluther

676
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:04.480
<v Speaker 25>that I don't know if it's true or not. They

677
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:08.960
<v Speaker 25>it's a patron that was connected or a member of

678
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.480
<v Speaker 25>the rules a Crucians.

679
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.760
<v Speaker 5>As possible. I know that the second generation Lutherans like

680
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.920
<v Speaker 5>Johann Andre are believed to be some of the early

681
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:24.239
<v Speaker 5>founders of the Rosicrucian order, and Luther did have a

682
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:26.400
<v Speaker 5>lot of support from the German princes. That was part

683
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.519
<v Speaker 5>of the reason why he was successful. I don't think

684
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:32.159
<v Speaker 5>he could have been successful without that state support in

685
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:36.519
<v Speaker 5>terms of Germany and the Reformation. But later Lutherans were

686
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:40.599
<v Speaker 5>for sure into Roschritianism. But I would not be surprised

687
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.440
<v Speaker 5>that there wasn't a patron that was as well.

688
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I just I was just wondering.

689
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:49.519
<v Speaker 25>I know, I noticed he used a symbol like a

690
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.679
<v Speaker 25>ros Acrucion symbols as a kind of signatory on documents.

691
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.079
<v Speaker 5>Well, that might have been his choice, though prior to

692
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:01.199
<v Speaker 5>the order of the rosy cross using it, it's not.

693
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:03.800
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you can't base the argument just on the symbol,

694
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:08.159
<v Speaker 5>because you know, there's a rose cross that I'm sure

695
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:10.599
<v Speaker 5>was used in Catholic churches prior to that, it would

696
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:13.519
<v Speaker 5>have been rosicrution necessarily. But I think when if you

697
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:17.480
<v Speaker 5>look up the character Johann andre it does specifically become

698
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 5>a Rosicrucian symbol at that point. And Luther had other

699
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.119
<v Speaker 5>esoteric influences. He was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which

700
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:29.480
<v Speaker 5>is a kind of a Neoplatonic type text. Luther was

701
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:34.119
<v Speaker 5>influenced by nominalism as well as Neoplatonism, so there's a

702
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 5>lot of possibilities there. But the book to read on

703
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:41.079
<v Speaker 5>this is Dame Francis yates book Rosicrucian Enlightenment, where she

704
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.559
<v Speaker 5>goes into quite a bit of detail about Johann andre As,

705
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:53.519
<v Speaker 5>the potential author of the Rosicrucian Manifesto. Time to Crusade

706
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.400
<v Speaker 5>is a stream doing decent. Okay, now, maybe it's better

707
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:28.719
<v Speaker 5>this way. What's up, man, I'm you Union Jose Biden.

708
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.360
<v Speaker 5>Five dollars. You said Maximus taught the soul has created

709
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:36.679
<v Speaker 5>an inception. I heard John Damascus teaches that we're generated

710
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:41.280
<v Speaker 5>from Adam and all the fathers, and all of humanity

711
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.159
<v Speaker 5>from our fathers and all humanities created within our atom.

712
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 5>Our souls are generated, not created. No, that's not true.

713
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:51.760
<v Speaker 5>I mean there is. Maybe John Damascus was a Traducian,

714
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:56.719
<v Speaker 5>but the same Maximus Confessor is not a Traducian. So

715
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.320
<v Speaker 5>I'm not aware of the Orthodox Church holding to introductionism.

716
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.880
<v Speaker 5>But I mean, I could be wrong, and I don't

717
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:06.000
<v Speaker 5>recall off the top of my head John mask is

718
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.039
<v Speaker 5>saying that. But Maximus is very clear in the ambiguity

719
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 5>that the soul is created at conception Elias by two dollars?

720
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.599
<v Speaker 5>Will you cover the released MLK files now? Probably not

721
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:22.840
<v Speaker 5>a freem.

722
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Hello.

723
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:35.159
<v Speaker 26>Can you hear me?

724
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:37.000
<v Speaker 27>Yeah?

725
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:38.920
<v Speaker 28>Can you hear me?

726
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:40.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? Yeah?

727
00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Hello?

728
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:43.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? What's up?

729
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Hello?

730
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 5>Yes, I can hear you can hear me? King anime?

731
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.840
<v Speaker 5>I heard diary is autistic. I don't think I am.

732
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:11.159
<v Speaker 5>I think seems like people with thetism have a hard

733
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 5>time with comedy and they can't tell when people are joking,

734
00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.119
<v Speaker 5>but probably everybody to a degree has those of the tism.

735
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:21.480
<v Speaker 5>What's up?

736
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:21.639
<v Speaker 3>Man?

737
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:24.119
<v Speaker 5>He got on you. You're raising your hand, I'm you.

738
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh hello? Oh?

739
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:30.079
<v Speaker 29>So yeah.

740
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:33.760
<v Speaker 8>I asked some questions about the Sabbath.

741
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:36.559
<v Speaker 2>So I heard, uh, I'm pretty.

742
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 8>Sure you know sab simonies.

743
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that's just not He was on first and Fleet.

744
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:45.519
<v Speaker 30>So the way he described the Sabbath I think was

745
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.280
<v Speaker 30>I didn't find it satisfaction because.

746
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:51.719
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I don't know what. I don't know what

747
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:57.079
<v Speaker 5>he argued about the Sabbath. What's the question, So do

748
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:57.599
<v Speaker 5>you think.

749
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.519
<v Speaker 8>Christians do have to keep the Sabbath the way it

750
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:01.679
<v Speaker 8>says in the Fourth Commandment.

751
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:04.440
<v Speaker 5>The way that it's kept is the way that the

752
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.199
<v Speaker 5>New Testament the Apostles keep it, which is the first

753
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:09.119
<v Speaker 5>day of the week is the day of the Lord

754
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 5>where the Church comes together and celebrates the liturgy. In

755
00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:16.880
<v Speaker 5>the Orthodox Church the seventh Day, the seventh Day Sabbath

756
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:19.880
<v Speaker 5>is still kept on in the vesper's service. It's still

757
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.960
<v Speaker 5>honored on Saturday. But no, as Hebrews four says, the

758
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.719
<v Speaker 5>true Sabbath has been brought to us in the person

759
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:31.280
<v Speaker 5>of Christ. So there's a superiority now to the true Sabbath,

760
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:33.360
<v Speaker 5>which is the Christian liturgical service.

761
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.719
<v Speaker 8>So would you consider that to be in a tipped

762
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.159
<v Speaker 8>at changing.

763
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:45.519
<v Speaker 5>Godswel No, Because Jesus is the one that gave the law.

764
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:48.159
<v Speaker 5>He is God. He's the one that decides and determines

765
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:50.840
<v Speaker 5>how it's kept and how it's interpreted.

766
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:57.840
<v Speaker 8>So but when he, like, when did he ever say

767
00:49:57.880 --> 00:49:59.079
<v Speaker 8>that Jesus change his Sabbath.

768
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:04.960
<v Speaker 5>Hebrews four explains that when Jesus came, he brought at

769
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.719
<v Speaker 5>his first advent the fulfillment and the meaning of the

770
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:14.639
<v Speaker 5>creation day Sabbath. Thus, the day of his resurrection is

771
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.880
<v Speaker 5>the Sabbath, according to Hebrews four. And that's why the

772
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:21.079
<v Speaker 5>Church in the Book of Acts and John in the

773
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 5>Book of Revelations says, I was in the spirit on

774
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 5>the Lord's Day. That's the day of his resurrection. In

775
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:27.639
<v Speaker 5>the Book of Acts, that's when the church meets to

776
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:35.360
<v Speaker 5>have the Divine Liturgy, the Church service. That's why it's Sunday, okay.

777
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.199
<v Speaker 8>And you know, because I was confused on like what

778
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:41.280
<v Speaker 8>people were saying about. They think because based.

779
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:44.599
<v Speaker 30>On in Genesis when it said the evening in the morning,

780
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.039
<v Speaker 30>he didn't say that at the end of the seven days.

781
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:47.800
<v Speaker 8>So people try to.

782
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:50.920
<v Speaker 30>Say that that's their basically their argument for thinking that

783
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:54.280
<v Speaker 30>we're in Gode now, which I thought to be very

784
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 30>confusing because I.

785
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Don't really get that.

786
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.719
<v Speaker 5>Have you not read have you read Hebrews?

787
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:03.920
<v Speaker 30>I see the verse that Sam pointed out, So I'm

788
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:05.400
<v Speaker 30>pretty sure the verse you're referring to.

789
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:08.079
<v Speaker 5>I just think all of chapter four is about the

790
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:14.000
<v Speaker 5>Sabbath being brought at Christ's first Advent. Okay, So all

791
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:19.000
<v Speaker 5>of these Jewish ceremonies, they symbolize the work and life

792
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.480
<v Speaker 5>of Christ and the reality that he brings at the

793
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:22.119
<v Speaker 5>first Advent.

794
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

795
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:27.480
<v Speaker 8>And what do you think about the theocracies?

796
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.519
<v Speaker 30>Do you think Christians should try to establish a theocracy

797
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:32.840
<v Speaker 30>like in the United States now?

798
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:35.039
<v Speaker 5>I think the goal is to convert people and then

799
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:38.800
<v Speaker 5>it will naturally tend towards a monarchy or an imperium

800
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:42.719
<v Speaker 5>or theocracy. So theocracy is the biblical form of government.

801
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.800
<v Speaker 5>That's why the Orthodox Church throughout two thousand years has

802
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:49.239
<v Speaker 5>always had monarchical or imperial forms of government. But it's

803
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.559
<v Speaker 5>not our first and foremost duty to set up a theocracy.

804
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 5>So that's something that happens down the line as people

805
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:00.800
<v Speaker 5>convert when you have a majority Christian Orthodox society clone card.

806
00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:09.679
<v Speaker 5>All right, he dropped off Vesper vesper Lend, vesper Lend.

807
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:19.320
<v Speaker 5>When you're gonna debate paul Ogia, all of these people

808
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:22.199
<v Speaker 5>can come into the chat like, I'm not chasing down

809
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.920
<v Speaker 5>people with like a thousand subscribers and all these gurgus,

810
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.280
<v Speaker 5>you guys, if they won't come to debate, then no,

811
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm not gonna chase down. I have no idea who

812
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:31.800
<v Speaker 5>Paulogia is. If they if they want to come debate,

813
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.599
<v Speaker 5>here's the link when you go and debate Arian Heretics

814
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:40.119
<v Speaker 5>six y nine four three two on YouTube. He's got

815
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:44.880
<v Speaker 5>feather subscribers, he's token smack. That's what the link is for.

816
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:55.840
<v Speaker 5>Dog Vesper what's up? You get to turn your mic on?

817
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:56.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean.

818
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:02.000
<v Speaker 5>Moving on, Danny? Is it Danny?

819
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:02.639
<v Speaker 2>Danny?

820
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:10.440
<v Speaker 5>Donnie Akula. It's open for him. If you want to

821
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:13.639
<v Speaker 5>request to speak, I'll bring you on. It's open debate.

822
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:20.000
<v Speaker 5>We're looking for people who would like to debate. Pologia

823
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:22.599
<v Speaker 5>has a million subs. Okay, well I've never heard of Pologia.

824
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:31.400
<v Speaker 5>I have no idea who it is. Selmoxis spends fifty bucks.

825
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:34.159
<v Speaker 5>Can you walk us through the documents from Trello and

826
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:37.400
<v Speaker 5>the Seventh Council affirmed in terms of canon. Okay, so

827
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:41.920
<v Speaker 5>Canon eighty five of the Apostolic Canons is mentioned, it's

828
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:45.880
<v Speaker 5>the Councils of Carthage that Trollo says specifically for the canon,

829
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.760
<v Speaker 5>Canon eighty five is relevant because it's a very early

830
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:51.920
<v Speaker 5>attestation in the Apostolic Canons to the Deutero canon being

831
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 5>part of the Bible. And so if you have the

832
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:01.360
<v Speaker 5>or the oars Augomatic theology Palmazonski, you don't even need

833
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.039
<v Speaker 5>me to walk you through it. Maybe I should make

834
00:54:03.079 --> 00:54:05.480
<v Speaker 5>a video on it, because I mean he talks about

835
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.679
<v Speaker 5>it within the first like thirty pages. And so there's

836
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:11.440
<v Speaker 5>a whole note on the Epistolic Canons and Canon thirty five.

837
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.639
<v Speaker 5>But Canon thirty five doesn't mention everything that's in our canon.

838
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:18.559
<v Speaker 5>And that's because the Seventh Acumunical Council winner to firms Trello.

839
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:22.480
<v Speaker 5>Trello specifically says, we are going with the Carthaginian canon,

840
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:28.440
<v Speaker 5>which includes all the dudercononical texts. I'm mute, Danny, or

841
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:29.239
<v Speaker 5>you want do you want to talk?

842
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:29.760
<v Speaker 4>Or what something?

843
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:34.079
<v Speaker 5>Man thank you guys for all the super chants. Appreciate it.

844
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:42.639
<v Speaker 5>You guys are being generous tonight, Donnie. I'm all right, whatever,

845
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:47.239
<v Speaker 5>don't I mute? Then Bible shelf?

846
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Hi, can you hear me?

847
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:53.880
<v Speaker 9>Uh huh?

848
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:57.599
<v Speaker 31>So I just wanted to ask, I guess for like

849
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:01.000
<v Speaker 31>advice for someone who's a lost and it's.

850
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:02.000
<v Speaker 12>Currently studying tag.

851
00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:04.960
<v Speaker 31>But I'm kind of just feeling like overwhelmed by all

852
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:08.039
<v Speaker 31>the objections and I would I attend church, but I

853
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.400
<v Speaker 31>guess I'm kind of like agnostic, and I just.

854
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:13.159
<v Speaker 12>Feel like it requires such a high.

855
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.679
<v Speaker 31>Level of philosophical knowledge and all the objections are like

856
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:18.800
<v Speaker 31>so complex that's kind of hard to know what's true.

857
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.199
<v Speaker 31>And I'm just in this like state of like not

858
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:25.440
<v Speaker 31>knowing or like uncertainty. But then I have Christians saying, oh, well,

859
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:28.320
<v Speaker 31>if you die upon disbelief for your you're probably gonna

860
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:28.519
<v Speaker 31>go to.

861
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:31.119
<v Speaker 5>Help, so you know, I mean, I think the point

862
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:35.079
<v Speaker 5>is that you join the Orthodox Church and become a

863
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:40.119
<v Speaker 5>regular member, and you don't rest on the academic rational

864
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:42.880
<v Speaker 5>side of stuff. It's not that the rational academic stuff

865
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.559
<v Speaker 5>is wrong or bad, but it can't all rest on that.

866
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:49.760
<v Speaker 5>That's like a sign pointer to the church. Yah kub,

867
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:53.920
<v Speaker 5>what's up? Yah kub? His name is Jacob, but I'm

868
00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:54.800
<v Speaker 5>calling him yah kub.

869
00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's up? What's up? Yep? Yeah, I followed you

870
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.440
<v Speaker 2>for a long time. I really like the content, and

871
00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I've been reading. I've been reading more some Dogma.

872
00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:12.639
<v Speaker 14>I'm like six pages in and he's talking about the

873
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:17.599
<v Speaker 14>early Christian mysteries, and I just wanted to know what

874
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:21.559
<v Speaker 14>exactly you would say about the statements that he's giving.

875
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So he will give like four hands, you.

876
00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:28.519
<v Speaker 14>Profane, or that giving the Christian mysteries is start putting

877
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.760
<v Speaker 14>a sword into the hands of a child, these kinds

878
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:32.199
<v Speaker 14>and things.

879
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:34.719
<v Speaker 5>I mean, he has a whole chapter where he talks

880
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:40.960
<v Speaker 5>about that real Christianity is Neoplatonism, basically affirms originism. He says,

881
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:44.239
<v Speaker 5>that's what the Trinity really is. So no, we don't

882
00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:48.440
<v Speaker 5>listen to Albert Pike and Neoplatonism for what Christianity is.

883
00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:53.000
<v Speaker 14>I mean, I mean, sorry, sorry, but he says, for example, Cyril,

884
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:57.119
<v Speaker 14>all right, he'll say the Lord explained in private his parables.

885
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:02.199
<v Speaker 5>That does mean what ye what he says, He's just

886
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:07.039
<v Speaker 5>referring to the Gnostic claim that true Christianity is a

887
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:09.800
<v Speaker 5>hidden message. But if you read here in as in

888
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.239
<v Speaker 5>book three and four against Heresies, and as says that

889
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.599
<v Speaker 5>there's nothing hidden in Christianity. It's all public.

890
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, yeah, I get that.

891
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:24.480
<v Speaker 14>No, it's just been very, very crazy because you gave

892
00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:27.960
<v Speaker 14>like thirteen thirteen quotes by different church fatherst it all

893
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:34.679
<v Speaker 14>said that they for example, you have Totullian saying that, yeah, okay,

894
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:35.800
<v Speaker 14>if it makes sense, makes sense.

895
00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:39.800
<v Speaker 5>So the saying why go ahead, What's what are the

896
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.639
<v Speaker 5>other quotes about?

897
00:57:41.559 --> 00:57:42.559
<v Speaker 2>So it's like thirteen.

898
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:47.360
<v Speaker 14>First he starts off with Clements not initiated to Trollanto.

899
00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:50.400
<v Speaker 14>Then he goes to Titullian, who's a heretic, as.

900
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:52.920
<v Speaker 5>He said, Then Clement is a heretic too, but go ahead,

901
00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:55.840
<v Speaker 5>the heretic too.

902
00:57:56.119 --> 00:57:59.000
<v Speaker 14>Then as I don't know how to say his name, sorry,

903
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:05.840
<v Speaker 14>I'm uh, he says, these mysteries the church now communicates

904
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:09.639
<v Speaker 14>to him who has passed through the introductory degree. They

905
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:11.599
<v Speaker 14>are not explained to the gentiles at all.

906
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, this is just all nonsense. Like when you join

907
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:17.519
<v Speaker 5>the Orthodox Church, there's no secret inner gnostic teaching that

908
00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:21.480
<v Speaker 5>the Orthodox Church passes on to the Gnostic inner elite.

909
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:25.360
<v Speaker 5>That's why the whole purpose of rols and dogma. Is

910
00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:28.639
<v Speaker 5>that Albert probably is saying, you, you know what people

911
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:31.440
<v Speaker 5>call Christianity and the Orthodox Churches or the Catholic Church,

912
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:34.440
<v Speaker 5>that's not real Christianity. That's for the profane. I have

913
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:37.039
<v Speaker 5>the real secrets. That's just a sleight of hand trick.

914
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:39.360
<v Speaker 27>Oh yeah, absolutely, it's social pride.

915
00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree with you. I'm a Christian tioper.

916
00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:43.639
<v Speaker 5>So what's what's the quest?

917
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:46.079
<v Speaker 14>I don't understand what I'm just I'm just confused because

918
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.760
<v Speaker 14>I'm trying to find out how to how to interpret

919
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:49.960
<v Speaker 14>these quotes.

920
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:51.559
<v Speaker 2>But these early church fathers.

921
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.199
<v Speaker 14>As for example, you will have Saint Basil. He's saying,

922
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:58.320
<v Speaker 14>this is what the initiated. I'm not permitted to contemplate

923
00:58:58.519 --> 00:58:59.280
<v Speaker 14>at the mysteries.

924
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:03.559
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean this is part of the Orthodox tradition

925
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:07.239
<v Speaker 5>that you don't speak of the mysteries to those outside

926
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:09.559
<v Speaker 5>because they don't understand it, they're not going to believe it.

927
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:12.920
<v Speaker 5>And that's why in the Orthodox Church it is called mystagogy.

928
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:16.960
<v Speaker 5>It is a mystical teaching. But mysteries does not mean

929
00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:21.079
<v Speaker 5>Albert Pike's ancient pagan mysteries. It means the mysteries of

930
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:27.159
<v Speaker 5>the Christian revelation, which are not always forever hidden. They

931
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:30.840
<v Speaker 5>are mysteries that are revealed to the initiated. That's why

932
00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:35.960
<v Speaker 5>baptism is called the right of initiation in Christianity. Let

933
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.400
<v Speaker 5>me give you another example. When you're baptized, you're called

934
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:42.079
<v Speaker 5>illumined or enlightened. That doesn't mean you're an enlightenment member

935
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 5>of the Illuminati because you're baptized.

936
00:59:44.719 --> 00:59:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

937
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:51.559
<v Speaker 14>I didn't know about the mysteries not being talked about openly.

938
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:51.679
<v Speaker 2>In that way.

939
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:54.480
<v Speaker 5>Well, in the Early Church and the liturgy, for example,

940
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:57.159
<v Speaker 5>it says, you know, I will not when we do

941
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.000
<v Speaker 5>the communion prayer, we say I will not speak of

942
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:02.039
<v Speaker 5>thy mysteries to thine enemy. And the church says in

943
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:05.440
<v Speaker 5>the liturgy, let the catechumans depart, let no catechumens remain.

944
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:08.960
<v Speaker 5>That's because in the Early Church there was persecution and

945
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:12.840
<v Speaker 5>the Empire would send spies into the churches and lie

946
01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:16.480
<v Speaker 5>about them and say, oh, they're actually engaging in human sacrifice.

947
01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:19.360
<v Speaker 5>And if you spoke about the mysteries outside the church,

948
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:25.079
<v Speaker 5>you could potentially have the church uh busted up because

949
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:26.000
<v Speaker 5>they're in the catacombs.

950
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he mentions this too. Yeah.

951
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.800
<v Speaker 5>He mentions that, Yeah, okay, but that doesn't prove Albert

952
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:38.760
<v Speaker 5>Pike's secret gnostic teaching of true Christianity. In the premac Lodges, you.

953
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:42.320
<v Speaker 14>Want to hear something funny, right right right after he

954
01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:47.320
<v Speaker 14>says this, he goes over the assasination of Charms o'haram

955
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:50.480
<v Speaker 14>and he says, literally he says it.

956
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:53.760
<v Speaker 27>Then he says, the edaculation at his grave was repeated

957
01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:54.400
<v Speaker 27>three times.

958
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:56.760
<v Speaker 5>So what, I don't know what you're saying.

959
01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:03.079
<v Speaker 14>Theulation echaculation of who of the three of the three

960
01:01:03.159 --> 01:01:05.239
<v Speaker 14>Masons that were trying to resurrect him.

961
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:08.760
<v Speaker 5>I didn't know he said that. That's funny.

962
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No one talked about it.

963
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:14.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's interesting. I've never found anybody

964
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:18.280
<v Speaker 5>until I read that chapter on what he thinks Christianity

965
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:20.679
<v Speaker 5>really is in terms of the trinity that he says,

966
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:23.400
<v Speaker 5>it's just neoplatonism. I've never heard anybody talk about that either.

967
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:34.719
<v Speaker 4>Let's let me pull up the Appstot Cannons and it's

968
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:35.360
<v Speaker 4>eighty five.

969
01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Hello, yes, sir, Yeah, I just want to ask you.

970
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:50.760
<v Speaker 32>So I used to be a Catholic, but I've since

971
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:53.639
<v Speaker 32>become an agnostic, So I want to ask you, what's

972
01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:56.800
<v Speaker 32>the basis for creashu ex lehilo.

973
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.480
<v Speaker 5>Well, the only basis is that it's divine revelation. And

974
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:05.199
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you could make some philosophical arguments about the

975
01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:10.239
<v Speaker 5>need for the philosophy of time itself requiring a beginning, middle,

976
01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:13.920
<v Speaker 5>and an end for meaning. That would be kind of

977
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:18.920
<v Speaker 5>a more roundabout transcendental argument, because if everything is just

978
01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:21.760
<v Speaker 5>say eternal return, or if everything is pure it just

979
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:27.000
<v Speaker 5>caustant cyclical return, then it would be very difficult to

980
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:31.719
<v Speaker 5>have differentiation, succession, change, et cetera. Everything would be an

981
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:35.119
<v Speaker 5>eternal in eternal stasis. So those are some things that

982
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:39.079
<v Speaker 5>could point to the need philosophically for a beginning, but

983
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:42.599
<v Speaker 5>not necessarily x neilo. Xnilo is a doctrine that's based

984
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:43.519
<v Speaker 5>on divine revelation.

985
01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:49.000
<v Speaker 32>Okay, so I would have posit if I would have

986
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:53.400
<v Speaker 32>posit that there's literally creation itself, but there was now

987
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:54.440
<v Speaker 32>beginning and new end.

988
01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:58.360
<v Speaker 5>So that's what I just said. So, if everything is

989
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:00.719
<v Speaker 5>at any if everything is an eternal return, what's the

990
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:03.880
<v Speaker 5>basis for beginning, middle, and end, which is how all

991
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:09.280
<v Speaker 5>human communication, sentence structure language works. If you don't have beginning, middle,

992
01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:12.079
<v Speaker 5>and end, how do you have communication?

993
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's what you're alluding to.

994
01:03:17.719 --> 01:03:20.400
<v Speaker 27>I suppose it's it's divinely audience.

995
01:03:20.679 --> 01:03:22.239
<v Speaker 32>It's it just came into being.

996
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:25.519
<v Speaker 5>Or did you hear anything of what I said? So

997
01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:27.519
<v Speaker 5>you're not going to answer anything that I said. You're

998
01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:29.840
<v Speaker 5>going to go back to stating what the problem is?

999
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:35.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what what? What did you say? Can you refrase it?

1000
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:41.000
<v Speaker 5>So I took you to say that if there's not

1001
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:44.599
<v Speaker 5>x nilo, then everything is just eternal, right, the created

1002
01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:48.440
<v Speaker 5>order or this world, it's all just eternal, right, So

1003
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.639
<v Speaker 5>there's not beginning, there's not beginning, middle.

1004
01:03:50.440 --> 01:03:50.719
<v Speaker 26>And end.

1005
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:53.559
<v Speaker 5>Everything is just an eternal return or an oral burrows

1006
01:03:53.639 --> 01:03:58.840
<v Speaker 5>ever eating itself right yep? Okay, Well, if there's not beginning, middle,

1007
01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:03.559
<v Speaker 5>and end, then sentences aren't possible because sentences and language

1008
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:08.440
<v Speaker 5>universally in the human domain require beginning, middle, and end.

1009
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:13.239
<v Speaker 5>So that suggests to me that the way that humans

1010
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:16.880
<v Speaker 5>are constituted and experienced time is as a beginning, middle,

1011
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:19.639
<v Speaker 5>and end. But that would be illusory if there's no

1012
01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:24.960
<v Speaker 5>such thing as beginning, middle, and end. So you're collapsing

1013
01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:28.719
<v Speaker 5>time into eternity, and that would make knowledge and communication impossible.

1014
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:33.519
<v Speaker 2>But why would it be impossible because.

1015
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:34.800
<v Speaker 5>Of what I just said. Did you not hear anything

1016
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:36.880
<v Speaker 5>I said, Yeah, I did.

1017
01:04:37.079 --> 01:04:40.639
<v Speaker 32>But before the sentence they were silence, right, and before

1018
01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:42.800
<v Speaker 32>silence there was a sentence preceding that.

1019
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:51.280
<v Speaker 5>So before and after then that's not eternal return, that's time.

1020
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:53.800
<v Speaker 5>What you said is eternally.

1021
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, e tanty in time.

1022
01:04:58.199 --> 01:04:59.840
<v Speaker 32>So I know it's a bit of a paradox, but

1023
01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:02.159
<v Speaker 32>the continues.

1024
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:04.880
<v Speaker 5>Oh so you're allowed to have well, you're allowed paradoxes

1025
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:10.360
<v Speaker 5>by creation. Next, Neilo is crazy. All right, you're not

1026
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:14.039
<v Speaker 5>You're not even listening, so we're moving on. Uh, let's

1027
01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:14.880
<v Speaker 5>see Ben m.

1028
01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:30.599
<v Speaker 33>Okay, Okay, hello, yep, hey Jay, you're going to question

1029
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:32.320
<v Speaker 33>about Orthodox Church history.

1030
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:36.480
<v Speaker 5>Okay, in the history.

1031
01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:38.360
<v Speaker 12>Do you know in the history when.

1032
01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:41.000
<v Speaker 34>In the history of the Orthodox Church was the advent

1033
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:43.280
<v Speaker 34>of choosing saint names among laity?

1034
01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:44.639
<v Speaker 4>I don't.

1035
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:47.920
<v Speaker 34>I'm assuming that was probably the result of people having

1036
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:53.119
<v Speaker 34>names that like diverged from biblical names, and I wonder

1037
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.440
<v Speaker 34>if that would be constitute an evolution on the practice

1038
01:05:56.480 --> 01:05:57.480
<v Speaker 34>of the church tradition.

1039
01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:01.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, in the old estimate you have people being given

1040
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:05.679
<v Speaker 5>new names. For example, Abram becomes Abraham. Can you mute

1041
01:06:05.719 --> 01:06:10.840
<v Speaker 5>for a second one. Yep, all right, so Sarah Sarah,

1042
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:16.639
<v Speaker 5>I becomes Sarah. So the basis is in the mind

1043
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:19.400
<v Speaker 5>of I'm sure the early Christians, the Bible and divine

1044
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:21.840
<v Speaker 5>revelation and the history of the Hebrews. I don't think

1045
01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:26.119
<v Speaker 5>it was just willy nearly done. There's plenty of saints

1046
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.320
<v Speaker 5>in the early Church who have pagan names who become saints.

1047
01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:31.559
<v Speaker 5>So I don't think there was any idea that if

1048
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:34.079
<v Speaker 5>you had a pagan name you had to change it

1049
01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:36.679
<v Speaker 5>necessarily because you were a Christian. It had to do

1050
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:41.960
<v Speaker 5>with the idea of patron saints and saints interceding, which

1051
01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:44.920
<v Speaker 5>is very early in the tradition of the Church. But

1052
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:50.079
<v Speaker 5>just because the tradition emerges as universal eventually, that doesn't

1053
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:55.039
<v Speaker 5>that doesn't prove doctrinal development, because we don't have a

1054
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:58.960
<v Speaker 5>problem with little tea traditions happening over time. And obviously

1055
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.360
<v Speaker 5>it's quite natural that if there's going to be a

1056
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:04.360
<v Speaker 5>saint who dies in the fifth, sixth, seventh century, they're

1057
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:06.159
<v Speaker 5>not going to be saints in the first, second, or

1058
01:07:06.199 --> 01:07:09.519
<v Speaker 5>third century because they don't exist yet. That's not development

1059
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:13.800
<v Speaker 5>of doctrine. That's the application of the basics of dogma

1060
01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:18.159
<v Speaker 5>to specific situations. So, for example, canon law, if you

1061
01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:21.519
<v Speaker 5>see up on the screen, this is the Apostolic canons,

1062
01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:25.719
<v Speaker 5>and these are ideas and rules about church law that

1063
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:30.280
<v Speaker 5>have some kind of flexibility over time. But that flexibility

1064
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:33.760
<v Speaker 5>over time does not translate into doctrinal development. It's just

1065
01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:39.159
<v Speaker 5>simply the Church using the static, unchanging principles of theology

1066
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:41.960
<v Speaker 5>and applying them to the needs of the time or

1067
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.320
<v Speaker 5>in specific locations.

1068
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, gotcha, thanks, Yeah, it's actually.

1069
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:53.320
<v Speaker 5>A really good question. Also, people should keep in mind

1070
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:56.480
<v Speaker 5>that when we look at the first, second, third, fourth

1071
01:07:56.559 --> 01:08:00.440
<v Speaker 5>century of the Church, there's a lot of fighting that

1072
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.599
<v Speaker 5>we have, but there's also a lot of things we

1073
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:05.559
<v Speaker 5>don't know, and so a lot of things are in

1074
01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:11.239
<v Speaker 5>a sense shrouded and silence in certain areas. You know,

1075
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.639
<v Speaker 5>there's places where Christianity went and we don't know what

1076
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:17.640
<v Speaker 5>happened to Christianity in that region. There's churches and nations

1077
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.880
<v Speaker 5>even that don't exist anymore. So a lot of these

1078
01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:22.800
<v Speaker 5>things we can't just go like look up and see.

1079
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:24.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, there's a lot when it comes to like

1080
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:30.720
<v Speaker 5>ancient textual analysis or ancient archaeology at you know, Christian

1081
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:36.319
<v Speaker 5>sites or catacombs. There's a level of guesswork that scholars

1082
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:39.399
<v Speaker 5>engage in because we don't know everything. Now, that doesn't

1083
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:42.319
<v Speaker 5>mean we know nothing. I'm just saying that there's a

1084
01:08:42.399 --> 01:08:44.079
<v Speaker 5>lot we don't know. There's a lot we do know,

1085
01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:49.039
<v Speaker 5>but also a lot that we don't know. Jacob. Now, guys,

1086
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:51.319
<v Speaker 5>we're looking for people that disagree. I don't mind taking

1087
01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:53.520
<v Speaker 5>all the FAQs and all this stuff, but I look

1088
01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:55.520
<v Speaker 5>for people that disagree. If you do, you go to

1089
01:08:55.560 --> 01:09:09.159
<v Speaker 5>the headline what's up, Jacob, George Apocalypse Rising twenty bucks.

1090
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:11.760
<v Speaker 5>Happy to see you still debating on the smooth Brains.

1091
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:14.239
<v Speaker 5>Keep it up, Jay. Also, I believe Bankers on the

1092
01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:18.520
<v Speaker 5>Dance Floor is your greatest work. Hey, you're in the minority.

1093
01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:20.399
<v Speaker 5>There are not many people seem to really. I think

1094
01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:25.439
<v Speaker 5>that's a classic cringe core work. I wish it would

1095
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.680
<v Speaker 5>have gotten more exposure. It seems like people would have

1096
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:31.960
<v Speaker 5>really liked that one. But Dyersburg, Tennessee vols fan three

1097
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.960
<v Speaker 5>dollars thank you for exposing Bertrand Russell. In the recent

1098
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:38.000
<v Speaker 5>segment on Lord Voldemore, the mainstream media does not ever

1099
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:42.119
<v Speaker 5>mention the dark side and portrays him as this pacist intellectual. Yeah,

1100
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:44.079
<v Speaker 5>that's the cover that he had. He had the cover

1101
01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:47.479
<v Speaker 5>of being this democratic, pacifist intellectual, but he's a con

1102
01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:51.279
<v Speaker 5>seething hatred for humanity exactly intrinsic, in distinctive. Ten dollars

1103
01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:54.479
<v Speaker 5>brought U you have shop mind? I need a haircut.

1104
01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:56.520
<v Speaker 5>I actually almost got a haircut today, but we just

1105
01:09:56.560 --> 01:09:58.560
<v Speaker 5>didn't have time. And I'm eager to get a haircut.

1106
01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:00.079
<v Speaker 5>That's why I keep wearing hats, because I'm going my

1107
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.359
<v Speaker 5>haircut yet. So as soon as I have time, I

1108
01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:06.399
<v Speaker 5>promise you I'll get a haircut. Y'all keep sending them

1109
01:10:06.439 --> 01:10:08.600
<v Speaker 5>super chats, I'll have money to go to head on

1110
01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:13.960
<v Speaker 5>over to superclips or supercuts or fantastic SAMs or whatever

1111
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:20.520
<v Speaker 5>it is. Inquiry or five dollars? What are the questions

1112
01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:23.760
<v Speaker 5>that you're Protestant or Catholic priests weren't able to answer?

1113
01:10:24.760 --> 01:10:27.840
<v Speaker 5>I think I mentioned previously this question about the Protestants.

1114
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:29.600
<v Speaker 5>I read a lot of Augustine, I wrote a lot

1115
01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:34.199
<v Speaker 5>of Cyprian. I was taking classes from Protestant professors. They

1116
01:10:34.279 --> 01:10:36.840
<v Speaker 5>couldn't answer my questions. From City of God, I read

1117
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:40.119
<v Speaker 5>the entire City of God. Of course, the Protestant professors

1118
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:43.039
<v Speaker 5>had never read it. So I had all this quote

1119
01:10:43.119 --> 01:10:45.199
<v Speaker 5>mine from the City of God. And then I read

1120
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:49.720
<v Speaker 5>the anti Pelagian Antidonatus works and they couldn't answer any

1121
01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:51.319
<v Speaker 5>of those either. They had never read those works.

1122
01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:55.359
<v Speaker 12>And so.

1123
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:00.720
<v Speaker 5>The Catholic priests, I mean I over the years talked

1124
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:06.039
<v Speaker 5>a lot of Catholic priests Novasorto priests, SSPX priest said

1125
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:10.479
<v Speaker 5>of a conscious priests, and I mean you could probably

1126
01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:13.000
<v Speaker 5>the questions that they couldn't answer are all the ones

1127
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.119
<v Speaker 5>that you see me posing to the Roman Catholics all

1128
01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:18.920
<v Speaker 5>the time. Jojo one night and you ran from a baby? Yes, yes,

1129
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:21.079
<v Speaker 5>I ran because there was a baby in the background.

1130
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:24.319
<v Speaker 5>Totally m l k z d k.

1131
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

1132
01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:26.479
<v Speaker 5>Here we go.

1133
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:45.760
<v Speaker 35>Go ahead, Hey, Jay, thank you for the species that

1134
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:53.439
<v Speaker 35>you're hosting. My question is I'm an Orthodox Christian myself.

1135
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:56.079
<v Speaker 5>And are you or are you Oriental Orthox.

1136
01:11:56.640 --> 01:11:59.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm an Oriental Orthodox.

1137
01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:02.399
<v Speaker 5>Christ You're not Orthodox in the sense that we are

1138
01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:04.079
<v Speaker 5>Eastern Orthodox.

1139
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I have not, yeah, but I have really benefited both from.

1140
01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:17.600
<v Speaker 35>Eastern Orthodox and Orthodox Oriental Orthodox theologians over the years,

1141
01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:21.079
<v Speaker 35>my favorite being doctor Jini.

1142
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Constantino on Ancient Phiz Radio. But my question is.

1143
01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:33.159
<v Speaker 35>I have a difficulty understanding the difference between in terms

1144
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:39.159
<v Speaker 35>of dogmatic differences our understanding of Jesus Christ between amongst

1145
01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:43.520
<v Speaker 35>Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

1146
01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:46.119
<v Speaker 5>So we're doing a whole series on this. Got to

1147
01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.560
<v Speaker 5>my channel Oriental Ordoxy your futa. We've done two installments,

1148
01:12:49.600 --> 01:12:53.199
<v Speaker 5>we plan to do about ten mm. Have you watched those?

1149
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:54.479
<v Speaker 2>No idea?

1150
01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:57.399
<v Speaker 5>Okay, so go watch those because they're about three hours each.

1151
01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.399
<v Speaker 5>Clead us, Do you want to try again? No way,

1152
01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:03.520
<v Speaker 5>I already went to you, mynnuel or re l.

1153
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:17.800
<v Speaker 36>Hello, yep, So I wanted to ask you, like, I

1154
01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:23.640
<v Speaker 36>guess two questions, one about tag and one about Islam.

1155
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:24.479
<v Speaker 12>Is that fine?

1156
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

1157
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.600
<v Speaker 8>So I guess my My question.

1158
01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:34.800
<v Speaker 29>About TAG is I understand that there are preconditions that

1159
01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:40.960
<v Speaker 29>like knowledge and logic, but I don't really understand, like

1160
01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:45.439
<v Speaker 29>how why is there necessity to ground those things? Can

1161
01:13:45.520 --> 01:13:49.000
<v Speaker 29>we just say like they just exists because of the

1162
01:13:49.079 --> 01:13:50.840
<v Speaker 29>impossibility of the country.

1163
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Or something like that.

1164
01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:54.239
<v Speaker 5>Now, if you read the Manion paper explains why that

1165
01:13:54.359 --> 01:13:58.239
<v Speaker 5>doesn't achieve grounding. So just because it doesn't appear that

1166
01:13:58.439 --> 01:14:01.000
<v Speaker 5>there's any other way to exp playing things without that

1167
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:03.800
<v Speaker 5>or to make sense of the world, that doesn't lead

1168
01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:06.920
<v Speaker 5>to the justification that it is the case because maybe

1169
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:08.640
<v Speaker 5>it just appears to us or maybe it's just part

1170
01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.279
<v Speaker 5>of our mental schema that that's how the world is,

1171
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:13.279
<v Speaker 5>But that doesn't tell us that the world actually is

1172
01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:15.479
<v Speaker 5>that way. So, in other words, it's not enough to

1173
01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:19.479
<v Speaker 5>get to justification just to say by possibility. Contrary, you

1174
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:22.600
<v Speaker 5>need you need a positive worldview that goes along with that.

1175
01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:24.960
<v Speaker 5>And that's the point of the Manion paper is that

1176
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:29.880
<v Speaker 5>only Christian theism posits and explains the basis for all

1177
01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:35.359
<v Speaker 5>of these things, transcetional categories, metaphysical categories, causation, telos tellos.

1178
01:14:36.239 --> 01:14:38.640
<v Speaker 5>So when you say why does it need to be grounded?

1179
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:42.119
<v Speaker 5>I mean that's a fundamental misunderstanding of like, well, if

1180
01:14:42.159 --> 01:14:43.920
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't have to be grounded, then nobody has to

1181
01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:49.399
<v Speaker 5>ground anything. Okay, I mean if you don't have to

1182
01:14:49.439 --> 01:14:52.319
<v Speaker 5>ground it, that's like in the Matt Dill Hunty debate, like, Okay,

1183
01:14:52.439 --> 01:14:54.920
<v Speaker 5>then I don't then I don't have God exists, I

1184
01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:55.560
<v Speaker 5>don't have to ground it.

1185
01:14:56.399 --> 01:15:01.680
<v Speaker 27>Okay, Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And is it I

1186
01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:05.039
<v Speaker 27>just I would say, uh, is it?

1187
01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:08.359
<v Speaker 29>Is it like this sort of thing where it's like, oh, well,

1188
01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:11.760
<v Speaker 29>I'm seeing this thing and then necessary for grounding, and

1189
01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:15.760
<v Speaker 29>I see this other puzzle piece and they fit right?

1190
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Is it like this?

1191
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.439
<v Speaker 27>Is it like two puzzle pieces, like they just fit together?

1192
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:21.039
<v Speaker 8>Like?

1193
01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:24.000
<v Speaker 5>No, it's all the transcendental categories that are necessary for

1194
01:15:24.079 --> 01:15:28.520
<v Speaker 5>the possibility predication. They all require and necessitate and presuppose

1195
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:33.439
<v Speaker 5>one another. So, you know, to have knowledge presupposes a

1196
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:39.720
<v Speaker 5>knowwheer uh. To have knowledge presupposes time, determination, beginning, middle,

1197
01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:43.199
<v Speaker 5>and end. To have knowledge presupposes an external world presupposes

1198
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:48.279
<v Speaker 5>laws of logic and meaningful sentences like and those things

1199
01:15:48.319 --> 01:15:49.920
<v Speaker 5>don't stand alone. They all require each other.

1200
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.960
<v Speaker 29>Yeah, yeah, no, But my question is like how do

1201
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:58.359
<v Speaker 29>you get from like these preconditions and grounding them to

1202
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:01.039
<v Speaker 29>like an Eastern for the conception of God.

1203
01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:03.800
<v Speaker 5>I mean I've done this a million times, like because

1204
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:09.000
<v Speaker 5>the only the Christian theistic system posits the metaphysics that

1205
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:12.600
<v Speaker 5>are required for those things to be grounded, all right,

1206
01:16:13.039 --> 01:16:15.520
<v Speaker 5>and divine conceptualism is a big part of that. And

1207
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:18.279
<v Speaker 5>you can go check out my videos on that. Uh,

1208
01:16:19.479 --> 01:16:28.279
<v Speaker 5>Eli Jojo, you ran from a baby four ninety nine,

1209
01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:31.319
<v Speaker 5>you were destroyed by Google, got got priso exactly. I

1210
01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:35.720
<v Speaker 5>couldn't take it. Uh, it was really just the loud noise.

1211
01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:39.640
<v Speaker 5>I'm not anti baby, It's just I couldn't hear what

1212
01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:43.279
<v Speaker 5>the guy what I was saying because the baby cap squelching.

1213
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:48.319
<v Speaker 5>I just saw a membership. James David Flood became a member.

1214
01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:52.520
<v Speaker 5>Shout out, what's up, James David Flood, Eli you want

1215
01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:53.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm mute?

1216
01:16:54.800 --> 01:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Hey, do you hear me?

1217
01:16:57.479 --> 01:17:01.640
<v Speaker 37>I had a question on the veneration of saying, I

1218
01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:05.319
<v Speaker 37>get this, asked a lot from my family because they're

1219
01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:09.479
<v Speaker 37>still Protestants and I'm just now converting to wordsidoxy, how

1220
01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:14.199
<v Speaker 37>do you respond to when Protestants say, hey, the Bible has.

1221
01:17:14.159 --> 01:17:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Specifically mentioned the veneration of saints.

1222
01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:19.039
<v Speaker 12>You know, therefore it could be a bad, bad thing

1223
01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:19.560
<v Speaker 12>that you're doing.

1224
01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:24.439
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they're venerated and honored when they're in heaven

1225
01:17:24.520 --> 01:17:29.359
<v Speaker 5>and Revelation five through nine, the bones of Elisha raised

1226
01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:31.680
<v Speaker 5>people from the dead, so they're obviously honored by God

1227
01:17:31.720 --> 01:17:36.000
<v Speaker 5>because they're endued with the power to resurrect people. Cloths

1228
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:37.880
<v Speaker 5>are taken from Paul's body in the Book of Acts

1229
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.000
<v Speaker 5>to heal people and cast out demons, so God has

1230
01:17:41.079 --> 01:17:44.279
<v Speaker 5>indued those physical objects and the body of Paul with

1231
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:46.760
<v Speaker 5>a divine power, which in the Book of Thessalonians he

1232
01:17:46.840 --> 01:17:49.359
<v Speaker 5>says is the dunamus, or the energy or power of

1233
01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:53.159
<v Speaker 5>God within him. So God honors his saints and his people.

1234
01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:57.079
<v Speaker 5>God honored the Virgin Mary by entering into her womb

1235
01:17:57.279 --> 01:18:00.960
<v Speaker 5>and denifying her and calling her queen of heaven and

1236
01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:04.359
<v Speaker 5>relation twelve. So God honors the saints. Why wouldn't we

1237
01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:10.159
<v Speaker 5>honor those that God honors? Gosh, I appreciate you, man, sure, yeah.

1238
01:18:10.279 --> 01:18:12.279
<v Speaker 5>Just go look up all those texts and then show

1239
01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:19.880
<v Speaker 5>those to your Protestant friends. Does anyone disagree? I mean,

1240
01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:22.399
<v Speaker 5>I'm not mad at you, guys, just like I see

1241
01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:25.560
<v Speaker 5>a bunch of Orthodox people who are cate of humans

1242
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:27.960
<v Speaker 5>and people with questions, and those are people who disagree.

1243
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:31.000
<v Speaker 5>If you want to come on to me. If you disagree,

1244
01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:43.039
<v Speaker 5>just please make arguments. Hey, ha tayo. Two pounds jaydagree Jamie, Hey,

1245
01:18:43.159 --> 01:18:46.119
<v Speaker 5>Jamie doubles press all time for Jay. According to JV

1246
01:18:46.279 --> 01:18:51.239
<v Speaker 5>Free two dollars word Gabe k ten bucks Jay, as

1247
01:18:51.279 --> 01:18:53.600
<v Speaker 5>you see martyrs in two thousand and eight, have not

1248
01:18:53.720 --> 01:18:58.560
<v Speaker 5>seen that. I'll have to check that out. Grip D.

1249
01:18:58.720 --> 01:18:59.680
<v Speaker 5>You want I mute? What's up?

1250
01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:12.119
<v Speaker 12>So he said the words soul.

1251
01:19:12.279 --> 01:19:14.319
<v Speaker 21>What is what is soul defined as.

1252
01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:18.479
<v Speaker 5>Like s O L E or s O U L?

1253
01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:20.159
<v Speaker 12>Is there a difference?

1254
01:19:21.640 --> 01:19:22.399
<v Speaker 5>Are you joking?

1255
01:19:23.720 --> 01:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm not joking at all.

1256
01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:25.600
<v Speaker 12>Is there a difference?

1257
01:19:26.079 --> 01:19:28.159
<v Speaker 5>No, there's no difference between the words soul s O

1258
01:19:28.319 --> 01:19:29.800
<v Speaker 5>L E and the word soul s O U L.

1259
01:19:30.079 --> 01:19:41.880
<v Speaker 5>There's literally no difference. Steven, what's up? And as sstro

1260
01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:47.479
<v Speaker 5>of five bucks? Do your best Matthew McConaughey impression. Well, actually,

1261
01:19:47.479 --> 01:19:50.560
<v Speaker 5>Matthew McConaughey, doesn't he fancy himself some kind of evangelical

1262
01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:54.159
<v Speaker 5>Let's see what would Matthew McConaughey when he reads the

1263
01:19:54.279 --> 01:19:58.760
<v Speaker 5>first Timothy three. Let's let's see how you would read it. Nah,

1264
01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:02.920
<v Speaker 5>these things, these things I write to you, though I

1265
01:20:03.079 --> 01:20:07.279
<v Speaker 5>come to you shortly, if I am delayed. I write

1266
01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:11.039
<v Speaker 5>so that you may know how you ought to conduct

1267
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:13.920
<v Speaker 5>yourself in the House of God, which is.

1268
01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.760
<v Speaker 4>Church, living God, pillar and ground of truth.

1269
01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:22.279
<v Speaker 5>That's first Timothy theory. How's that I'm still a little

1270
01:20:23.119 --> 01:20:27.039
<v Speaker 5>uh sinus, See, so my impressions are not exactly right.

1271
01:20:27.880 --> 01:20:28.000
<v Speaker 9>Uh?

1272
01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:31.600
<v Speaker 4>If I've got some sinusy things going on, Stephen, you

1273
01:20:31.640 --> 01:20:32.199
<v Speaker 4>want I mute?

1274
01:20:32.239 --> 01:20:38.880
<v Speaker 5>What's up? I don't understand the people who come on

1275
01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:41.920
<v Speaker 5>and they never unmute, Like, what what was the purpose?

1276
01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:44.239
<v Speaker 4>Are you there? Stephen?

1277
01:20:47.119 --> 01:20:48.840
<v Speaker 5>You have to turn your mic on if you're gonna

1278
01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:58.359
<v Speaker 5>come speak on a microphone. Elon sees, Kyle, my ologies

1279
01:20:58.359 --> 01:20:59.880
<v Speaker 5>is drawing me crazy to they too on top of

1280
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:02.239
<v Speaker 5>the trees are on the juniper trees are on attack.

1281
01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:08.760
<v Speaker 5>They're an attack. Elon sees something. What's up?

1282
01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:24.399
<v Speaker 38>I'm mute, hey, Jamie, Jamie, and he an espresso. I'm mute, dude, Jamie,

1283
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:27.760
<v Speaker 38>I'm singing that song.

1284
01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:31.039
<v Speaker 5>Could you met me? An expresso? Not an espresso, an

1285
01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:37.239
<v Speaker 5>X expresso? Thank you, dog. You don't want to talk,

1286
01:21:37.319 --> 01:21:38.520
<v Speaker 5>You just want to sit there. What's up?

1287
01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:38.720
<v Speaker 4>Man?

1288
01:21:39.760 --> 01:21:45.520
<v Speaker 5>Elon wanna try again? Elon sees Kyle, here we go.

1289
01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Can you hear me?

1290
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Took a while to show up?

1291
01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:51.239
<v Speaker 39>Sorry, Hey, I just want to pick your brain on

1292
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:56.000
<v Speaker 39>the topic of a humanism, because I hear you talking

1293
01:21:56.039 --> 01:21:58.800
<v Speaker 39>about it now and then, and it seems to be

1294
01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:02.479
<v Speaker 39>like a negative thing that we should, at least in

1295
01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:05.840
<v Speaker 39>your view, that we shouldn't be doing as Orthodox Christians.

1296
01:22:06.439 --> 01:22:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Christians.

1297
01:22:07.239 --> 01:22:11.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's a compromising obviously of the ancient tradition and

1298
01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:14.960
<v Speaker 5>the doctrine of the Body of Christ, ecclesiology, all of

1299
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:18.680
<v Speaker 5>those things are compromised, you know. I mean they can

1300
01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:21.520
<v Speaker 5>say you can't go and pray in the synagogues and

1301
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:23.520
<v Speaker 5>the and the temples of the heretics.

1302
01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:28.880
<v Speaker 39>Yeah, and I agree with that, but I kind of

1303
01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:33.359
<v Speaker 39>view that as I guess you could count as a humanism.

1304
01:22:33.439 --> 01:22:38.239
<v Speaker 39>But I thought humanism was more defined as regards to

1305
01:22:39.479 --> 01:22:45.720
<v Speaker 39>other groups of Christians like Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox getting together

1306
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:46.640
<v Speaker 39>on certain things.

1307
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:49.279
<v Speaker 2>And obviously we've no it has.

1308
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:53.520
<v Speaker 5>To do with violating the canonical boundaries of the Church

1309
01:22:54.279 --> 01:22:59.720
<v Speaker 5>through public liturgical actions, ceremonies, et cetera. That's how it's defined.

1310
01:23:01.000 --> 01:23:04.039
<v Speaker 5>So you know, can there be some pro life thing

1311
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:07.800
<v Speaker 5>where Catholics and Orthodox work together, Sure, that's not a cumenism.

1312
01:23:08.239 --> 01:23:14.239
<v Speaker 5>Communism is specifically about public divine worship. I mean it

1313
01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:16.920
<v Speaker 5>could also be like you write a book where you

1314
01:23:17.039 --> 01:23:19.520
<v Speaker 5>say something like, oh, we all have the same faith,

1315
01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:22.199
<v Speaker 5>we're all one church. I mean, it's not just liturgically,

1316
01:23:22.359 --> 01:23:25.840
<v Speaker 5>because it's also theologically. If you were to deny something,

1317
01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:27.680
<v Speaker 5>you know, in terms of the profession of faith, that

1318
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:28.840
<v Speaker 5>would also count.

1319
01:23:31.720 --> 01:23:36.199
<v Speaker 39>Right and what abound in regards to praying together like

1320
01:23:36.720 --> 01:23:37.680
<v Speaker 39>outside of church.

1321
01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:40.000
<v Speaker 5>Well, you can pray and they can join with you,

1322
01:23:40.279 --> 01:23:43.760
<v Speaker 5>but we're not supposed to join in the services of others.

1323
01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:47.560
<v Speaker 5>Then that's the canonical strictures that I mentioned. But thank

1324
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:49.600
<v Speaker 5>you for that. Anybody disagree, you go to the have

1325
01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:58.960
<v Speaker 5>the line Wesley cards two dollars. Yeah, the words are

1326
01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:01.680
<v Speaker 5>the same. Hence old food so o l e food.

1327
01:24:01.720 --> 01:24:03.600
<v Speaker 5>That would be like when you eat the sole of

1328
01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:06.720
<v Speaker 5>your shoe. Because of course there's no difference between the

1329
01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:09.279
<v Speaker 5>word soul s O l e and the word soul

1330
01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:15.079
<v Speaker 5>s o U l. What's the difference, Wesley?

1331
01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:16.880
<v Speaker 36>Yes, how do you do?

1332
01:24:17.560 --> 01:24:18.000
<v Speaker 8>Wesley?

1333
01:24:18.119 --> 01:24:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Curry?

1334
01:24:19.399 --> 01:24:24.199
<v Speaker 5>Okay, what's up? Do you've got curry Broda? You've got

1335
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:28.720
<v Speaker 5>good foods there? You make a d what curry?

1336
01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:30.000
<v Speaker 32>This says?

1337
01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:36.159
<v Speaker 2>Look like a seven eleven? I look on six days ago.

1338
01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:40.560
<v Speaker 40>I prayed to Jesus Christ. I only pray to Jesus Christ,

1339
01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:43.960
<v Speaker 40>and no other name do I pray. I pray to

1340
01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:46.319
<v Speaker 40>Jesus who appear to you all and told you to.

1341
01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Tell the vision. Tell the vision. You shall not need

1342
01:24:48.640 --> 01:24:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the market.

1343
01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:53.399
<v Speaker 40>My career was that six days ago we give everybody

1344
01:24:53.479 --> 01:24:54.600
<v Speaker 40>on earth bread.

1345
01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Now those of you that sad, so we got only.

1346
01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:08.359
<v Speaker 5>Are going to goodbye Schizo, goodbye skitso right, enjoy Shukri Shukri.

1347
01:25:14.239 --> 01:25:16.159
<v Speaker 5>I'm mute. I'm mute, dude.

1348
01:25:17.520 --> 01:25:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm maybe mm hmmm.

1349
01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:23.560
<v Speaker 19>Uh the connection is a little bit bad.

1350
01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:28.840
<v Speaker 10>But I have a question, Okay, are besides Christology other

1351
01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:32.960
<v Speaker 10>problematic differences between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox?

1352
01:25:33.520 --> 01:25:36.239
<v Speaker 2>And does the Oriental as our church have valid priesthood.

1353
01:25:38.079 --> 01:25:40.720
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what valid is an ambiguous term because

1354
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:43.520
<v Speaker 5>we don't think that it even matters. The ritual could

1355
01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:46.119
<v Speaker 5>be done right, they might be received by vesting, but

1356
01:25:46.279 --> 01:25:50.079
<v Speaker 5>the grace of the rights doesn't return until they return

1357
01:25:50.159 --> 01:25:54.199
<v Speaker 5>to Orthodoxy. So uh yeah, I mean there, We're doing

1358
01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:56.079
<v Speaker 5>a whole series. Go watch the series that we're doing

1359
01:25:56.159 --> 01:25:58.560
<v Speaker 5>on this. This is not Oriental Q and a Night.

1360
01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:02.560
<v Speaker 5>We've done two lectures that are multi hours long about

1361
01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:05.479
<v Speaker 5>or into Orthodoxy, and we're going to do seven more.

1362
01:26:05.920 --> 01:26:09.399
<v Speaker 5>It's just gonna take time. If you have a question,

1363
01:26:10.520 --> 01:26:13.079
<v Speaker 5>you can come on request to speak, but I'm looking

1364
01:26:13.079 --> 01:26:15.159
<v Speaker 5>for people who disagree who would like to come up.

1365
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:18.000
<v Speaker 5>If you're a Protestant, if you're a Roman Catholic, if

1366
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:21.079
<v Speaker 5>you're a premillennial, dispensationalist, if you're a Muslim, if you're

1367
01:26:21.079 --> 01:26:22.800
<v Speaker 5>a Gnostic, if you're a Mormon, if you're an atheist,

1368
01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.000
<v Speaker 5>if you're a Hebrew Roots supporter of any kind, You're

1369
01:26:26.039 --> 01:26:28.039
<v Speaker 5>welcome to request to speak, and I'll bring you up.

1370
01:26:28.119 --> 01:26:30.720
<v Speaker 5>You can ask your questions or you can make an argument.

1371
01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:32.760
<v Speaker 5>You can speak for as long as you'd like, if

1372
01:26:32.760 --> 01:26:36.359
<v Speaker 5>you'd like to debate within reason. Oxios.

1373
01:26:41.439 --> 01:26:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Hello, Yeah, Okay, So I had this question.

1374
01:26:46.039 --> 01:26:47.520
<v Speaker 27>I couldn't really get an astron on Google.

1375
01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:51.680
<v Speaker 28>But in the Old Testament, when God heartened Pharaoh's heart,

1376
01:26:52.720 --> 01:26:55.119
<v Speaker 28>I'm not sure exactly how to understand that, probably because

1377
01:26:55.119 --> 01:26:57.159
<v Speaker 28>it's it sounds like the.

1378
01:26:57.239 --> 01:26:59.640
<v Speaker 5>Other passage explains how he hearted it. It says he

1379
01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:02.199
<v Speaker 5>hardened it by allowing Pharaoh to hearten his own heart.

1380
01:27:02.319 --> 01:27:05.319
<v Speaker 5>So the two passages together give you the clue as

1381
01:27:05.359 --> 01:27:07.119
<v Speaker 5>to how it occurs. And you have the same thing

1382
01:27:07.199 --> 01:27:10.560
<v Speaker 5>with David taking the census. One passage says God moved

1383
01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:12.960
<v Speaker 5>David to take a census, which was a great sin,

1384
01:27:13.359 --> 01:27:16.319
<v Speaker 5>and the other passage and the other historical book says

1385
01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:20.039
<v Speaker 5>that Satan moved David to take a census. So, just

1386
01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:22.680
<v Speaker 5>like with Pharaoh, the way that God allowed. That was

1387
01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:25.800
<v Speaker 5>allowing Satan to attempt David in that way. So that's

1388
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:29.399
<v Speaker 5>how that happens. It's a boat and cleat us again.

1389
01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Hey, what's up, Jay, I'm back again. Remind me of

1390
01:27:37.119 --> 01:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about.

1391
01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:41.680
<v Speaker 23>I forgot it was about rebaptism. You kind of unlocked

1392
01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:43.800
<v Speaker 23>me because of the way I'm just not used to.

1393
01:27:43.920 --> 01:27:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I guess what youcked me? Mental?

1394
01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:48.199
<v Speaker 5>Does that mean?

1395
01:27:49.119 --> 01:27:51.800
<v Speaker 23>Sunlock is like, let's say you hit like a goat

1396
01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:54.520
<v Speaker 23>with like I don't know, a ball, you know.

1397
01:27:54.520 --> 01:27:55.479
<v Speaker 2>How like goats faint?

1398
01:27:56.760 --> 01:27:57.520
<v Speaker 4>Goats faint?

1399
01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:00.159
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever seen like YouTube.

1400
01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:02.560
<v Speaker 23>Videos of goats fainting? They like get stun locked and

1401
01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:06.920
<v Speaker 23>they just like tip over? No, okay, well that's a term.

1402
01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:10.359
<v Speaker 5>I mean. Also, I'm gonna go subscribe to the goat

1403
01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:13.399
<v Speaker 5>fainting channels when we get off it here, But go ahead.

1404
01:28:14.319 --> 01:28:18.000
<v Speaker 23>Well, so I just I basically I wanted to because

1405
01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:19.960
<v Speaker 23>I don't know. I am a cate of human but

1406
01:28:20.199 --> 01:28:24.800
<v Speaker 23>but right, I'm not fully orthodox yet, I guess you know.

1407
01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:25.800
<v Speaker 2>I hope that's valid.

1408
01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:27.439
<v Speaker 5>I have a video on this if you could just

1409
01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:30.880
<v Speaker 5>type into YouTube the question of rebaptism.

1410
01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:32.439
<v Speaker 12>So is that.

1411
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:36.560
<v Speaker 5>Okay, it's not it's not ethic. I'm not to be mean,

1412
01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:37.680
<v Speaker 5>it's just it's not ethic.

1413
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.399
<v Speaker 23>You nine, well, no, I guess I understand that too,

1414
01:28:40.520 --> 01:28:44.840
<v Speaker 23>but I mean I so basically it's kind of question

1415
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:48.079
<v Speaker 23>of what is the lesser of two evils? If that

1416
01:28:48.159 --> 01:28:51.439
<v Speaker 23>makes sense, And because everywhere there's problems.

1417
01:28:51.239 --> 01:28:53.760
<v Speaker 5>With you know, I don't understand what you're talking. What's

1418
01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:54.760
<v Speaker 5>the lesser between what?

1419
01:28:56.319 --> 01:29:02.479
<v Speaker 23>Well, so if there are inconsistencies slightly in all the churches, right.

1420
01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:07.880
<v Speaker 5>The Orthodox position is on economia or on economia, is

1421
01:29:07.960 --> 01:29:11.239
<v Speaker 5>that it's up to the local bishops to decide how

1422
01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:15.239
<v Speaker 5>and when and whether baptism is necessary, whether there's a

1423
01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:21.039
<v Speaker 5>profession renunciation of errors, cherstmation, it's a local decision. There

1424
01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:23.640
<v Speaker 5>does not have to be a one size fits all rule.

1425
01:29:24.000 --> 01:29:27.279
<v Speaker 5>And that's a difference from Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism assumes

1426
01:29:27.319 --> 01:29:29.439
<v Speaker 5>that there's a one size fits all rule. But even

1427
01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:32.359
<v Speaker 5>Roman Catholics have conditional baptism, so they do the exact

1428
01:29:32.399 --> 01:29:36.359
<v Speaker 5>same thing. So again I don't even understand what. Go

1429
01:29:36.560 --> 01:29:39.840
<v Speaker 5>watch the video that I've made on this topic. It's

1430
01:29:40.079 --> 01:29:42.439
<v Speaker 5>just type in rebaptism. JDR. Not being mean to you,

1431
01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:46.319
<v Speaker 5>it's just it's not faq, Knight, it's not catech human

1432
01:29:46.439 --> 01:29:49.760
<v Speaker 5>question nite. I'm looking for people who disagree. We got

1433
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:52.319
<v Speaker 5>one hundred and five people in here, and most of

1434
01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:54.560
<v Speaker 5>the time the questions like that that come, or the

1435
01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:58.920
<v Speaker 5>never ending Oriental Orthodox questions. That's why we're doing this

1436
01:29:59.039 --> 01:30:03.279
<v Speaker 5>ongoing series so that I don't have to repeat the

1437
01:30:03.439 --> 01:30:07.680
<v Speaker 5>same answers every time we do this live stream. I'm

1438
01:30:07.760 --> 01:30:10.399
<v Speaker 5>not being mean. It's not really imagine you, guys, if

1439
01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:14.199
<v Speaker 5>you had repeated something that's been asked to you literally

1440
01:30:14.359 --> 01:30:18.840
<v Speaker 5>hundreds of times. That's the reason that I seem dismissive

1441
01:30:19.600 --> 01:30:21.680
<v Speaker 5>is not because I don't like you, or I hate people,

1442
01:30:21.760 --> 01:30:25.039
<v Speaker 5>or I he's mean. It's that we make videos and

1443
01:30:25.159 --> 01:30:28.600
<v Speaker 5>podcasts on these topics so that I don't have to

1444
01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:30.920
<v Speaker 5>keep doing that so I can tell you, hey, guess

1445
01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:33.920
<v Speaker 5>what this FAQ question. We've already got a whole talk

1446
01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:36.319
<v Speaker 5>on it. And a lot of people are freaking lazy, man.

1447
01:30:36.359 --> 01:30:38.359
<v Speaker 5>They won't go and find the videos. I understand it's

1448
01:30:38.399 --> 01:30:42.279
<v Speaker 5>not all laziness, because sometimes the videos are buried in

1449
01:30:42.319 --> 01:30:45.039
<v Speaker 5>the YouTube algorithm, but a lot of these questions they're

1450
01:30:45.079 --> 01:30:48.520
<v Speaker 5>pretty easy to like get, they're easy to find, so

1451
01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:53.159
<v Speaker 5>if it's me saying like tonight is debate night. That

1452
01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:57.319
<v Speaker 5>means it's not what do I do for fasting? What's

1453
01:30:57.359 --> 01:30:59.880
<v Speaker 5>the proper spirit prayer rule?

1454
01:31:00.479 --> 01:31:00.560
<v Speaker 8>Uh?

1455
01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:01.840
<v Speaker 5>Well, what's the cannon on?

1456
01:31:02.319 --> 01:31:02.399
<v Speaker 2>Uh?

1457
01:31:02.520 --> 01:31:02.720
<v Speaker 19>You know?

1458
01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:05.000
<v Speaker 5>Can I go to the movies? Or like, it's not

1459
01:31:05.119 --> 01:31:10.159
<v Speaker 5>what we're doing tonight. It says that the top Debate night, Steven.

1460
01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:15.680
<v Speaker 8>Can you hear me?

1461
01:31:17.399 --> 01:31:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

1462
01:31:17.800 --> 01:31:17.960
<v Speaker 9>Good?

1463
01:31:18.279 --> 01:31:19.399
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I was on earlier.

1464
01:31:19.520 --> 01:31:21.600
<v Speaker 41>I think I'm a problem with my mic on my

1465
01:31:21.720 --> 01:31:24.199
<v Speaker 41>laptop ever since we got this new microphone.

1466
01:31:25.439 --> 01:31:27.479
<v Speaker 29>I'm not I'm not a technician when it when it

1467
01:31:27.560 --> 01:31:29.359
<v Speaker 29>comes to laptops.

1468
01:31:31.479 --> 01:31:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1469
01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:34.279
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, But before I go to my question, first, I

1470
01:31:34.359 --> 01:31:35.640
<v Speaker 12>want to say Jay, I thought.

1471
01:31:35.800 --> 01:31:39.159
<v Speaker 2>He did a really good Matthew mcconnoughey, thank you.

1472
01:31:41.039 --> 01:31:41.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1473
01:31:41.359 --> 01:31:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1474
01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:41.920
<v Speaker 8>No.

1475
01:31:42.279 --> 01:31:44.279
<v Speaker 2>So my question is about.

1476
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:46.039
<v Speaker 18>The cannon.

1477
01:31:47.560 --> 01:32:01.199
<v Speaker 5>You're cutting out, man, can't harry you? Uh you you've

1478
01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:03.600
<v Speaker 5>cut out man. Let's see that guy. There was one

1479
01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:09.880
<v Speaker 5>guy that clipped a maybe it's just baptisms not rebuilt.

1480
01:32:12.319 --> 01:32:17.520
<v Speaker 5>There's a guy that clipped it and it was a

1481
01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:20.039
<v Speaker 5>different channel. It wasn't my channel.

1482
01:32:28.960 --> 01:32:29.319
<v Speaker 8>Riptured.

1483
01:32:30.920 --> 01:32:32.880
<v Speaker 5>You're ear cutting out man. I don't know, Kenny.

1484
01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:34.760
<v Speaker 12>I can't hear you at all.

1485
01:32:35.600 --> 01:32:38.800
<v Speaker 5>That's you're in bro, all right, it's open for him.

1486
01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:42.199
<v Speaker 5>I'm looking for people who disagree. That means not f

1487
01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:48.199
<v Speaker 5>a questions, not catechumen question night. If you disagree, you

1488
01:32:48.239 --> 01:32:52.439
<v Speaker 5>go to the head of the line. What did that

1489
01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:54.680
<v Speaker 5>guy title that video? The thing that's annoying is that

1490
01:32:54.840 --> 01:32:57.000
<v Speaker 5>you you basically have to have like the perfect title

1491
01:32:57.760 --> 01:32:58.640
<v Speaker 5>or it doesn't come up.

1492
01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:02.680
<v Speaker 14>It was.

1493
01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:17.119
<v Speaker 42>Let's try it orthodox baptism. I don't know why that's

1494
01:33:17.760 --> 01:33:22.680
<v Speaker 42>the only thing that comes up. This might be old

1495
01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:29.000
<v Speaker 42>now this maybe this is it, and this isn't it.

1496
01:33:29.119 --> 01:33:30.279
<v Speaker 42>I don't know why it doesn't come up.

1497
01:33:40.600 --> 01:33:51.960
<v Speaker 5>Maybe this is it. No, that's not it. Well, I thought,

1498
01:33:52.000 --> 01:33:54.039
<v Speaker 5>maybe we get some Protestants coming in tonight, but I

1499
01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:56.760
<v Speaker 5>don't really, we're not getting much of that. We just

1500
01:33:56.840 --> 01:34:05.520
<v Speaker 5>got a couple kind of lunatic people. What was the

1501
01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:10.760
<v Speaker 5>name of that video? Orthodox? Let's see valid?

1502
01:34:11.199 --> 01:34:11.600
<v Speaker 4>Maybe it was.

1503
01:34:14.199 --> 01:34:32.760
<v Speaker 5>Valid? Is always what confuses people. I don't know. I

1504
01:34:32.840 --> 01:34:37.399
<v Speaker 5>don't even have the energy to look for it. Awakened.

1505
01:34:45.560 --> 01:34:47.079
<v Speaker 5>There was a guy that was making clips and he

1506
01:34:47.159 --> 01:34:51.279
<v Speaker 5>clipped a really good, like twenty minute discussion on baptism

1507
01:34:52.039 --> 01:34:56.319
<v Speaker 5>and rebaptism, and I thought, you know, finally we have

1508
01:34:56.600 --> 01:34:59.600
<v Speaker 5>like the video where I don't have to repeat this

1509
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:01.479
<v Speaker 5>tell me? Do you a lot of stream? And I'm

1510
01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:05.560
<v Speaker 5>so tired of PSA like, I mean, I mean, I've

1511
01:35:05.600 --> 01:35:08.880
<v Speaker 5>explained and are you the PSA thing probably like at

1512
01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:11.079
<v Speaker 5>least a few hundred times in the last five years.

1513
01:35:13.119 --> 01:35:16.840
<v Speaker 5>I hate this or saved like, Oh, I can't stand

1514
01:35:16.880 --> 01:35:19.359
<v Speaker 5>these questions. Man, I'm yeah, man, what's up?

1515
01:35:21.319 --> 01:35:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Hey?

1516
01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:22.039
<v Speaker 12>You do you hear me?

1517
01:35:22.279 --> 01:35:22.439
<v Speaker 26>Huh?

1518
01:35:23.520 --> 01:35:26.680
<v Speaker 12>Yeah? I am cradle and probably not.

1519
01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:28.840
<v Speaker 43>Asking a debate question, so I hope you don't mind.

1520
01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:32.479
<v Speaker 43>But I just had a question with regards to Catholic apologetics. Okay,

1521
01:35:34.439 --> 01:35:37.600
<v Speaker 43>as it relates to Oriental orthodoxy, which you could shut

1522
01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:39.439
<v Speaker 43>me down if you're going to detail it in your channel,

1523
01:35:39.560 --> 01:35:42.720
<v Speaker 43>But because I was curious. Sometimes I hear them throw

1524
01:35:42.760 --> 01:35:44.800
<v Speaker 43>around it seems like a lazy argument, but I don't

1525
01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:48.800
<v Speaker 43>have a good response to it. That they're kind of concilier,

1526
01:35:49.279 --> 01:35:52.039
<v Speaker 43>you know, universal good by the Holy Spirit approach is

1527
01:35:52.159 --> 01:35:54.720
<v Speaker 43>essentially ours, and that we have no grounds to disparage

1528
01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:56.680
<v Speaker 43>them compared to ours, and since they have the Pope,

1529
01:35:56.720 --> 01:35:58.680
<v Speaker 43>they can you know, And I'm just curious how you'd

1530
01:35:58.680 --> 01:36:00.960
<v Speaker 43>basically respond to that if I praise that clearly.

1531
01:36:02.119 --> 01:36:05.159
<v Speaker 5>I don't understand what what's say it again?

1532
01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:07.079
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sorry.

1533
01:36:07.960 --> 01:36:12.840
<v Speaker 43>Essentially, like, you know, our epistemology is very similar to theirs,

1534
01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:14.439
<v Speaker 43>if that's the right word, Like the way we come

1535
01:36:14.520 --> 01:36:15.760
<v Speaker 43>to decisions through councils.

1536
01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:17.720
<v Speaker 12>Right, there's no pope declaring things.

1537
01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:21.720
<v Speaker 5>Ours is similar to the Roman Catholic to the Orientals.

1538
01:36:21.960 --> 01:36:23.479
<v Speaker 5>Oh I thought you said caloign nevermind.

1539
01:36:23.960 --> 01:36:24.640
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, I'm sorry.

1540
01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:27.000
<v Speaker 43>But the Catholics say that ours is similar to the Orientals,

1541
01:36:27.039 --> 01:36:28.479
<v Speaker 43>and that because of that, you know, we don't have

1542
01:36:28.520 --> 01:36:31.399
<v Speaker 43>the unifying leader to deduce between the two, right, that

1543
01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:33.159
<v Speaker 43>we have no grounding to say that we're right in

1544
01:36:33.239 --> 01:36:33.640
<v Speaker 43>their room.

1545
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:35.159
<v Speaker 12>And I'm just curious from.

1546
01:36:35.119 --> 01:36:38.439
<v Speaker 43>Like authoritative standpoint, like, how would.

1547
01:36:38.239 --> 01:36:39.640
<v Speaker 12>You respond to that?

1548
01:36:43.079 --> 01:36:45.439
<v Speaker 5>Well, I don't think that the papacy does the work,

1549
01:36:45.520 --> 01:36:48.279
<v Speaker 5>but they think it does. So there, I suppose a

1550
01:36:48.359 --> 01:36:53.159
<v Speaker 5>solution to this problem is really a problem that everybody has. So,

1551
01:36:54.039 --> 01:36:56.680
<v Speaker 5>I mean, has Francis solved the problems in the church

1552
01:36:56.880 --> 01:37:01.279
<v Speaker 5>with his past fifteen years of just attend thirteen years

1553
01:37:01.319 --> 01:37:03.159
<v Speaker 5>of decisions? Has this has this worked?

1554
01:37:04.640 --> 01:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1555
01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:06.680
<v Speaker 12>That's that's typically where I go, which is why I

1556
01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:08.199
<v Speaker 12>decide as on that.

1557
01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:18.359
<v Speaker 5>I mean, if that's the case, Like how was the

1558
01:37:18.479 --> 01:37:20.880
<v Speaker 5>how were the problem solved in the first three and

1559
01:37:20.960 --> 01:37:24.760
<v Speaker 5>twenty years before? Right before?

1560
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:25.359
<v Speaker 6>Uh?

1561
01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:27.479
<v Speaker 5>And and I mean, does it even make sense to

1562
01:37:27.600 --> 01:37:30.039
<v Speaker 5>even cite Nicea if your Roman Catholic should be like,

1563
01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:33.880
<v Speaker 5>why didn't the pope just decide the issues at Nicea?

1564
01:37:34.159 --> 01:37:38.359
<v Speaker 5>Like because remember they'll cite Clements Ella Clements deciding issues.

1565
01:37:38.520 --> 01:37:42.920
<v Speaker 5>So he's the first autocrat universal pope example that we

1566
01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:46.279
<v Speaker 5>have post apostles. And it's like, okay, if that's how

1567
01:37:46.319 --> 01:37:49.640
<v Speaker 5>it works, then why is there a need for any

1568
01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:54.840
<v Speaker 5>problems to be squelched by an ecumenical council? Councils are

1569
01:37:54.880 --> 01:37:58.840
<v Speaker 5>a huge ordeal. They're called by emperors. Money is put

1570
01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:02.279
<v Speaker 5>into it from the imperial treasury. People are brought from,

1571
01:38:02.920 --> 01:38:05.479
<v Speaker 5>you know, hundreds of miles away. It takes forever. It's

1572
01:38:05.520 --> 01:38:08.760
<v Speaker 5>a huge ordeal in the ancient world. And according to them,

1573
01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:12.880
<v Speaker 5>the problems are just solved by the pope's decisions, according

1574
01:38:12.880 --> 01:38:13.680
<v Speaker 5>to batic and one.

1575
01:38:14.399 --> 01:38:18.159
<v Speaker 12>So all of that he lets us two councils, isn't it.

1576
01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:21.720
<v Speaker 5>Well? I mean, why is he being nice when he

1577
01:38:21.760 --> 01:38:24.000
<v Speaker 5>could be it could be a lot more efficient and

1578
01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:27.239
<v Speaker 5>like sensible and pragmatic I thought that's what they're all about, right,

1579
01:38:27.359 --> 01:38:30.840
<v Speaker 5>like the oh yeah, another if you remember this what

1580
01:38:30.960 --> 01:38:33.760
<v Speaker 5>a bar actually says. He's like, well, the pope had

1581
01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:36.439
<v Speaker 5>that power book, he did in no ways use it.

1582
01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:39.199
<v Speaker 5>Oh so in other words, he failed at what he

1583
01:38:39.279 --> 01:38:41.319
<v Speaker 5>was supposed to do throughout the first thousand years. That's

1584
01:38:41.319 --> 01:38:43.039
<v Speaker 5>what you're saying, right.

1585
01:38:43.079 --> 01:38:45.279
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, that's ridiculous. I think that's very eloquently for.

1586
01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:45.760
<v Speaker 2>To thank you.

1587
01:38:46.960 --> 01:38:51.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah yeah, I just think that this that whole thing

1588
01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:56.159
<v Speaker 5>is a thing that evolved and let's a young potawan.

1589
01:38:56.239 --> 01:39:01.680
<v Speaker 5>What's up, dude? Dollars are getting to me? Thor is dead.

1590
01:39:01.720 --> 01:39:08.039
<v Speaker 5>Five dollars God logic tactic. Interpret Protestant proof texts, draw

1591
01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:15.319
<v Speaker 5>them in and then say we just reading Maine. I

1592
01:39:15.359 --> 01:39:20.159
<v Speaker 5>could try that tactic, just read the text and be like, oh,

1593
01:39:20.199 --> 01:39:23.600
<v Speaker 5>we're just reading dog little Blue. Two dollars. You got

1594
01:39:23.680 --> 01:39:26.319
<v Speaker 5>a soul patch so o l E underneath your lip

1595
01:39:26.399 --> 01:39:33.840
<v Speaker 5>exactly except I shaved it. Viga less guys, spread the

1596
01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:36.720
<v Speaker 5>love for Jade daigre. What does that mean? Is that

1597
01:39:36.840 --> 01:39:39.399
<v Speaker 5>like the Daugasteini version of dire, I don't know what

1598
01:39:39.479 --> 01:39:44.079
<v Speaker 5>that means? Young whatever boom or unmute.

1599
01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:46.680
<v Speaker 12>Hey Jay, I'm a Protestant bro.

1600
01:39:46.920 --> 01:39:49.800
<v Speaker 5>So, okay, what's up?

1601
01:39:52.199 --> 01:39:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Who's talking right now?

1602
01:39:53.399 --> 01:39:55.640
<v Speaker 5>I'm talking to you. I was impersonating you.

1603
01:39:56.479 --> 01:39:59.119
<v Speaker 12>Oh hey, bro, So I have a question.

1604
01:39:59.479 --> 01:40:01.359
<v Speaker 41>So I have a Protestant background, and you know, I

1605
01:40:01.439 --> 01:40:03.319
<v Speaker 41>got a Catholic church right next to me, and so

1606
01:40:03.359 --> 01:40:05.079
<v Speaker 41>I'm going to try and hit an Orthodox church.

1607
01:40:05.239 --> 01:40:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Allow.

1608
01:40:05.920 --> 01:40:08.479
<v Speaker 41>I want to thank you for the recommendations of Saint

1609
01:40:08.520 --> 01:40:12.319
<v Speaker 41>Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological controversy. I'm also listening

1610
01:40:12.359 --> 01:40:14.520
<v Speaker 41>to the Apstock Fathers great things.

1611
01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:15.760
<v Speaker 12>But I wanted to ask you.

1612
01:40:16.159 --> 01:40:20.079
<v Speaker 41>You know, since you are Orthodox, what is the teaching

1613
01:40:20.119 --> 01:40:24.159
<v Speaker 41>as it relates to the household, especially the father and

1614
01:40:24.439 --> 01:40:25.119
<v Speaker 41>or a husband.

1615
01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:27.319
<v Speaker 2>And like Protestant.

1616
01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:31.560
<v Speaker 41>Background, there's always this like working as a team, help

1617
01:40:31.600 --> 01:40:34.880
<v Speaker 41>your wife grow in Christ. Is that the same for

1618
01:40:35.319 --> 01:40:39.439
<v Speaker 41>Orthodox for Orthodoxy or is it more of a leadership

1619
01:40:39.560 --> 01:40:40.960
<v Speaker 41>driven role In Orthodoxy?

1620
01:40:42.520 --> 01:40:44.960
<v Speaker 5>I would say it should be a leadership driven role.

1621
01:40:45.159 --> 01:40:49.319
<v Speaker 5>I don't see this idea of egalitarianism. I mean, you

1622
01:40:49.439 --> 01:40:52.880
<v Speaker 5>can have a position of authority and work as a team.

1623
01:40:53.359 --> 01:40:57.079
<v Speaker 5>There's nothing about team that necessitates there being egalitarianism per se.

1624
01:40:57.840 --> 01:41:01.000
<v Speaker 5>You can have a team leader. I mean, so the

1625
01:41:01.119 --> 01:41:03.279
<v Speaker 5>terminology is kind of vague, but I mean I would

1626
01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:07.840
<v Speaker 5>I would say the religion is one patriarchal got it.

1627
01:41:07.960 --> 01:41:09.199
<v Speaker 12>That was the answer I wanted.

1628
01:41:09.279 --> 01:41:10.159
<v Speaker 2>Man, Thank you so much.

1629
01:41:10.479 --> 01:41:14.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean you're gonna find libs everywhere, though, So

1630
01:41:14.399 --> 01:41:16.319
<v Speaker 5>you're gonna you can find an Orthodox church where some

1631
01:41:16.399 --> 01:41:19.439
<v Speaker 5>woman will tell you that we're working to bring priests

1632
01:41:19.720 --> 01:41:22.600
<v Speaker 5>women priests to the church and get rid of the patriarch.

1633
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:25.399
<v Speaker 5>I'm sure you can find some. It's always going to

1634
01:41:25.439 --> 01:41:28.640
<v Speaker 5>be some fat woman too, that's saying that. I'm sure

1635
01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:33.640
<v Speaker 5>you can find it. Ninety some fat feminists. I'm sure.

1636
01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:40.359
<v Speaker 5>Just go to ancient faith radio. The women that you

1637
01:41:40.439 --> 01:41:43.960
<v Speaker 5>find on there, that's they're going to be pushing that probably. Uh,

1638
01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:46.399
<v Speaker 5>it's open for him. Anybody want to come to debate.

1639
01:41:46.399 --> 01:41:48.079
<v Speaker 5>We've got still got ninety people in here. We've only

1640
01:41:48.159 --> 01:41:51.800
<v Speaker 5>been going for hour forty five. No Protestants that disagree,

1641
01:41:51.880 --> 01:41:56.439
<v Speaker 5>No Roman Catholics that disagree, No Gnostics, no Mormons. No,

1642
01:41:57.479 --> 01:41:59.359
<v Speaker 5>I'm just almost starting naming all the cults.

1643
01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:00.359
<v Speaker 9>Uh.

1644
01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:07.439
<v Speaker 5>No om Shinrico proponents, No Evangelical Calvinists, no Reformed Baptists.

1645
01:42:07.600 --> 01:42:08.880
<v Speaker 5>Know how many cults?

1646
01:42:08.920 --> 01:42:10.239
<v Speaker 4>Can we go through all of them?

1647
01:42:10.279 --> 01:42:10.520
<v Speaker 5>Again?

1648
01:42:12.159 --> 01:42:25.800
<v Speaker 4>No Mendians no Druze, no Hashamites, no Hasha Shim, no Shiah,

1649
01:42:29.199 --> 01:42:31.560
<v Speaker 4>no Hebrew roots.

1650
01:42:31.640 --> 01:42:32.199
<v Speaker 2>Let's see we.

1651
01:42:32.279 --> 01:42:39.399
<v Speaker 5>Got red patriot. Oh my gosh, Marxist Leninists, this will

1652
01:42:39.399 --> 01:42:43.640
<v Speaker 5>be good. Hello, what's up?

1653
01:42:43.640 --> 01:42:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Christian Communist.

1654
01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:49.000
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't exist, is the I.

1655
01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:52.000
<v Speaker 44>Don't think any church on earth right now is is

1656
01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:56.079
<v Speaker 44>as concerned as they should be with the prohibited uh

1657
01:42:56.479 --> 01:43:01.279
<v Speaker 44>practice of usury. I think all of the churches practice

1658
01:43:01.359 --> 01:43:07.199
<v Speaker 44>usury in their own their own organizations and uh as

1659
01:43:07.279 --> 01:43:08.359
<v Speaker 44>we know in the Lord's prayer.

1660
01:43:09.880 --> 01:43:12.640
<v Speaker 5>How to Orthodox churchs practice usury in their organizations? What

1661
01:43:12.720 --> 01:43:13.159
<v Speaker 5>does that mean?

1662
01:43:14.720 --> 01:43:16.399
<v Speaker 23>Well, I mean there's a lot of things to be

1663
01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:19.319
<v Speaker 23>concerned with with usury and the Orthodox Church.

1664
01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:27.319
<v Speaker 44>Your churches are just not as committed to the Christian spirit,

1665
01:43:27.640 --> 01:43:27.840
<v Speaker 44>you know.

1666
01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:30.319
<v Speaker 5>And so your answer to that question was to restate

1667
01:43:30.399 --> 01:43:31.600
<v Speaker 5>the original thing in question.

1668
01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:35.239
<v Speaker 44>You know, Yeah, it's it's it's a and then you

1669
01:43:35.359 --> 01:43:37.039
<v Speaker 44>also canonize like people like.

1670
01:43:37.039 --> 01:43:41.239
<v Speaker 5>The again again full of full of usurers.

1671
01:43:42.279 --> 01:43:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Dynasty is no ideal.

1672
01:43:47.319 --> 01:43:49.600
<v Speaker 5>So you're not going to answer. So, and there is

1673
01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:51.399
<v Speaker 5>no such thing as a Christian communists. You just made

1674
01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:52.039
<v Speaker 5>up your own thing.

1675
01:43:52.359 --> 01:43:54.319
<v Speaker 2>You you can you can dismiss me on.

1676
01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:56.720
<v Speaker 5>You're not going to answer the questions, is why I'm

1677
01:43:56.760 --> 01:43:57.119
<v Speaker 5>moving on.

1678
01:43:57.560 --> 01:43:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

1679
01:43:58.039 --> 01:44:01.600
<v Speaker 5>And your argument was to restake your position twice and

1680
01:44:01.680 --> 01:44:03.840
<v Speaker 5>then again three times in a row, so that doesn't

1681
01:44:03.840 --> 01:44:06.079
<v Speaker 5>constitute an argument. I asked you specifically for what the

1682
01:44:06.239 --> 01:44:12.159
<v Speaker 5>argument was that Orthodox organizations are participating in usury. You

1683
01:44:12.720 --> 01:44:15.359
<v Speaker 5>restated the thing in question, and then you said the

1684
01:44:15.479 --> 01:44:21.520
<v Speaker 5>Ramanovs included usurers. The Orthodox position of sainthood can include

1685
01:44:21.520 --> 01:44:25.680
<v Speaker 5>people who did not necessarily live exemplar relives, but for example,

1686
01:44:25.920 --> 01:44:29.319
<v Speaker 5>confessed at their death and became martyrs. So that doesn't

1687
01:44:29.359 --> 01:44:35.319
<v Speaker 5>even negate the Ramanovs. And I'm not even sure that

1688
01:44:35.399 --> 01:44:37.600
<v Speaker 5>the Romanovs were a bunch of users. I mean, I

1689
01:44:37.640 --> 01:44:40.520
<v Speaker 5>don't even know, except I accept that assertion. You need

1690
01:44:40.640 --> 01:44:45.479
<v Speaker 5>to demonstrate that from the outset. But you weren't going

1691
01:44:45.520 --> 01:44:47.399
<v Speaker 5>to answer any questions. You just wanted to gap and

1692
01:44:48.000 --> 01:44:49.640
<v Speaker 5>make up your own. There's also thing as a Christian

1693
01:44:49.640 --> 01:44:52.960
<v Speaker 5>Communist Marxist doesn't exist. It's a made up thing. Does

1694
01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:55.680
<v Speaker 5>anyone have an argument? Anyone disagree? I'm not taking q

1695
01:44:55.760 --> 01:44:58.960
<v Speaker 5>and as I'm looking for people who disagree, any dispensation.

1696
01:44:59.119 --> 01:45:04.279
<v Speaker 5>It's any pre millennials, any sola fide so scripture.

1697
01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:09.640
<v Speaker 4>Anyone who's a Mormon, anyone who is a uh, let's

1698
01:45:09.640 --> 01:45:11.479
<v Speaker 4>see Joseph either dude.

1699
01:45:11.479 --> 01:45:12.119
<v Speaker 5>We already went to.

1700
01:45:19.600 --> 01:45:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, what's up?

1701
01:45:26.079 --> 01:45:27.359
<v Speaker 12>Jay's my question?

1702
01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:30.760
<v Speaker 45>He is like, you're a smart dude, And how how

1703
01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:33.239
<v Speaker 45>can you still believe in a younger? Like I hold

1704
01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:35.560
<v Speaker 45>Michael Jones position. I don't want to like get into

1705
01:45:35.640 --> 01:45:38.600
<v Speaker 45>like the logistics, but like, how do you still hold

1706
01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:39.039
<v Speaker 45>a younger?

1707
01:45:40.760 --> 01:45:43.239
<v Speaker 5>How do you not hold to it given the fact

1708
01:45:43.279 --> 01:45:45.520
<v Speaker 5>that it's built on so many lies?

1709
01:45:46.960 --> 01:45:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Like what about.

1710
01:45:52.079 --> 01:45:54.880
<v Speaker 5>So what about piltdown Man, Nebraska Man. You know they're

1711
01:45:54.920 --> 01:45:56.199
<v Speaker 5>ford their their frauds.

1712
01:45:56.560 --> 01:45:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Wait, what are you what is that?

1713
01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:00.399
<v Speaker 5>What are you talking about? You don't even know exactly,

1714
01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:04.039
<v Speaker 5>I don't know. I don't pilt down Man, Nebraska Man.

1715
01:46:04.079 --> 01:46:08.319
<v Speaker 5>They're famous frauds. And that's your example. You're supposed to nut.

1716
01:46:08.359 --> 01:46:13.840
<v Speaker 5>Your go to is this famous freaking laughable frauds. Cavemen.

1717
01:46:14.520 --> 01:46:23.119
<v Speaker 5>The Geico caveman is what you go to. Literally, like

1718
01:46:23.159 --> 01:46:28.000
<v Speaker 5>one of the most famous examples of this is like

1719
01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:31.119
<v Speaker 5>the most famous hosts pilt Down Man. And by the way,

1720
01:46:31.199 --> 01:46:34.680
<v Speaker 5>Nebraskaman's exact same. And why is the why is Taylor

1721
01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:37.319
<v Speaker 5>de Sharden popping up at all these By the way,

1722
01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:40.720
<v Speaker 5>anybody else looking for people who disagree? We look for

1723
01:46:40.840 --> 01:46:45.000
<v Speaker 5>the Muslims, the Mormons, the Atheists, the Dispensations, the Protestants,

1724
01:46:45.800 --> 01:46:48.279
<v Speaker 5>the Roman Catholics, of the Gnostics. I don't. I just

1725
01:46:48.359 --> 01:46:52.439
<v Speaker 5>simply am way more of a skeptic on scientism claims

1726
01:46:52.600 --> 01:46:57.039
<v Speaker 5>than what's his name aspiring philosophy would be a sparing

1727
01:46:57.079 --> 01:47:01.439
<v Speaker 5>philosophy defaults to a lot of this scientist domain, and

1728
01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:04.800
<v Speaker 5>I don't. I think a lot of that stuff is fraudulent.

1729
01:47:06.079 --> 01:47:12.319
<v Speaker 5>Oh my gosh, sure we go, Hey.

1730
01:47:12.239 --> 01:47:12.800
<v Speaker 26>J how are you?

1731
01:47:13.319 --> 01:47:13.760
<v Speaker 5>What's up?

1732
01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Nothing much?

1733
01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:17.720
<v Speaker 33>So I come from a Muslim background, and I just

1734
01:47:17.800 --> 01:47:21.159
<v Speaker 33>requently watched your debate with Dake brinkintella. So I'm not

1735
01:47:21.560 --> 01:47:24.640
<v Speaker 33>as philosophical or I'm not as.

1736
01:47:28.039 --> 01:47:29.560
<v Speaker 19>Smart and philosophy as you guys are.

1737
01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:31.880
<v Speaker 33>So I had to struggle, you know, understanding the terms

1738
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:34.520
<v Speaker 33>and everything of the debate. But I understand your point

1739
01:47:34.600 --> 01:47:37.520
<v Speaker 33>of that we count God by division and not by identity,

1740
01:47:37.560 --> 01:47:39.079
<v Speaker 33>and I just wanted to understand why.

1741
01:47:39.159 --> 01:47:41.079
<v Speaker 2>Is that that we don't count by identity.

1742
01:47:42.119 --> 01:47:45.079
<v Speaker 5>I didn't say that. I said that we count in

1743
01:47:45.239 --> 01:47:47.520
<v Speaker 5>different ways, different things in different ways, And I said

1744
01:47:47.560 --> 01:47:51.079
<v Speaker 5>that the ancient world counted by division. That that was uh,

1745
01:47:51.800 --> 01:47:54.960
<v Speaker 5>that was uncontroversial because you can look at al Gazali,

1746
01:47:55.439 --> 01:47:59.119
<v Speaker 5>you can look at Aristotle, you can look through medieval

1747
01:47:59.680 --> 01:48:03.399
<v Speaker 5>Earth manuals like that's how they counted. It's why the

1748
01:48:03.520 --> 01:48:07.079
<v Speaker 5>Nicene Creed says that God is won and indivisible. And

1749
01:48:07.239 --> 01:48:09.760
<v Speaker 5>when you read, for example, Maximus the Confessor, he talks

1750
01:48:09.760 --> 01:48:13.800
<v Speaker 5>about the monad is first, and then we have from

1751
01:48:13.880 --> 01:48:17.359
<v Speaker 5>the monad the diad, and it's a splitting of the

1752
01:48:17.439 --> 01:48:20.560
<v Speaker 5>monad into a diad and then into a triad. So

1753
01:48:20.640 --> 01:48:23.319
<v Speaker 5>that's literally dividing, counting by division.

1754
01:48:24.399 --> 01:48:26.600
<v Speaker 33>No, I understand the concept of counting by division, and

1755
01:48:26.680 --> 01:48:28.560
<v Speaker 33>I don't think that is inherently logical, you know what

1756
01:48:28.600 --> 01:48:31.000
<v Speaker 33>I mean, Like if we split a ply into three parts.

1757
01:48:31.159 --> 01:48:32.000
<v Speaker 19>It's still one pie.

1758
01:48:32.039 --> 01:48:32.840
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm trying to say.

1759
01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:36.720
<v Speaker 5>But the point was that both Christians and Muslims would

1760
01:48:36.800 --> 01:48:42.439
<v Speaker 5>require counting both by division and by identity, depending upon

1761
01:48:42.720 --> 01:48:45.399
<v Speaker 5>what they were picking out in their respective deities. So

1762
01:48:45.479 --> 01:48:49.439
<v Speaker 5>when a Muslim picks out the singular divine essence, Algazali

1763
01:48:49.600 --> 01:48:52.439
<v Speaker 5>would say that God is indivisible. But when you're picking

1764
01:48:52.479 --> 01:48:56.720
<v Speaker 5>out specific divine attributes, you would need to identify them

1765
01:48:56.840 --> 01:48:58.439
<v Speaker 5>and pick them out in a different way.

1766
01:49:00.039 --> 01:49:02.439
<v Speaker 33>We still recognize that there are multiple attributes. We don't

1767
01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:03.600
<v Speaker 33>say that there are one attribute.

1768
01:49:04.079 --> 01:49:06.399
<v Speaker 19>We count attributes by identity as well, because.

1769
01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:09.039
<v Speaker 5>There I just said, you count the identity the attributes

1770
01:49:09.039 --> 01:49:09.600
<v Speaker 5>by identity.

1771
01:49:10.640 --> 01:49:13.199
<v Speaker 33>So in what way do we count in the Islamic conception,

1772
01:49:13.479 --> 01:49:14.920
<v Speaker 33>In what way do they count God?

1773
01:49:15.960 --> 01:49:19.520
<v Speaker 5>My point was that you also would require the same

1774
01:49:19.760 --> 01:49:23.359
<v Speaker 5>form of counting in both ways, as I understand, and

1775
01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:27.840
<v Speaker 5>that was against the position of Jake, who was that

1776
01:49:28.039 --> 01:49:30.560
<v Speaker 5>the only way to count is identity, which is a

1777
01:49:30.640 --> 01:49:31.520
<v Speaker 5>more of a modern idea.

1778
01:49:32.600 --> 01:49:34.960
<v Speaker 33>No, I understand your point now, but I'm trying to say,

1779
01:49:35.600 --> 01:49:37.800
<v Speaker 33>in what sense in the Islamic conception do they count

1780
01:49:37.800 --> 01:49:39.199
<v Speaker 33>by a divisibility.

1781
01:49:40.119 --> 01:49:42.399
<v Speaker 5>When, for example, yeah, when you're if you're talking about

1782
01:49:42.399 --> 01:49:45.960
<v Speaker 5>the unity or tall heed Uh. For example, algaz Ali

1783
01:49:46.039 --> 01:49:49.439
<v Speaker 5>speaks of God as one and indivisible. He literally has

1784
01:49:49.479 --> 01:49:53.319
<v Speaker 5>an entire section about counting allah Uh and in his

1785
01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:58.000
<v Speaker 5>unity via division because the ancient world counted that way.

1786
01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:00.880
<v Speaker 5>You don't get to counting by identity until you get

1787
01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:04.880
<v Speaker 5>into more of a philosophical medieval conception where you have

1788
01:50:05.079 --> 01:50:07.800
<v Speaker 5>things that are not divitible that can still be counted.

1789
01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:13.000
<v Speaker 5>So for example, abstract objects, logical laws, sets, it makes

1790
01:50:13.079 --> 01:50:18.640
<v Speaker 5>no sense to count those types of things by division,

1791
01:50:18.760 --> 01:50:20.560
<v Speaker 5>and so they're counted by identity.

1792
01:50:21.880 --> 01:50:23.319
<v Speaker 2>I understand, Yeah, I understand.

1793
01:50:25.560 --> 01:50:29.119
<v Speaker 5>So what's the question about a lot attributes or does

1794
01:50:29.159 --> 01:50:29.720
<v Speaker 5>that answer it?

1795
01:50:30.600 --> 01:50:30.720
<v Speaker 10>Oh?

1796
01:50:30.840 --> 01:50:32.279
<v Speaker 19>No, no, no, you addressed it. I'm just going to

1797
01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:33.479
<v Speaker 19>do more research on my own.

1798
01:50:33.520 --> 01:50:33.640
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1799
01:50:33.680 --> 01:50:35.760
<v Speaker 33>I'm going to say, you and Jake make really compelling points.

1800
01:50:35.760 --> 01:50:38.079
<v Speaker 33>I think you guys are probably the smartest out of

1801
01:50:38.239 --> 01:50:39.720
<v Speaker 33>all the apologetics on YouTube.

1802
01:50:39.760 --> 01:50:41.880
<v Speaker 5>So what compelling point did Jake make?

1803
01:50:43.960 --> 01:50:44.119
<v Speaker 14>Well?

1804
01:50:44.199 --> 01:50:46.800
<v Speaker 19>I didn't really see how we count what do you

1805
01:50:46.880 --> 01:50:47.119
<v Speaker 19>call it?

1806
01:50:47.760 --> 01:50:50.880
<v Speaker 33>Why it would make sense to count God by division

1807
01:50:51.319 --> 01:50:53.399
<v Speaker 33>and not by identity when we see that?

1808
01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:55.199
<v Speaker 5>Did you not hear anything that I said? So you're

1809
01:50:55.239 --> 01:50:56.279
<v Speaker 5>not listening to what I said.

1810
01:50:56.520 --> 01:50:57.840
<v Speaker 2>No, no, I heard what you said.

1811
01:50:58.359 --> 01:51:02.279
<v Speaker 5>When did I say that we don't count God by identity? Also,

1812
01:51:04.119 --> 01:51:07.720
<v Speaker 5>I didn't say that I said that. For example, I

1813
01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:13.840
<v Speaker 5>said both positions would utilize both things because different ways

1814
01:51:13.920 --> 01:51:17.039
<v Speaker 5>of counting are picking out different types of things. So,

1815
01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:19.279
<v Speaker 5>for example, when we say that God is one and

1816
01:51:19.399 --> 01:51:22.560
<v Speaker 5>indivisible in the creed, that's a reference to the divine essence.

1817
01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:25.520
<v Speaker 5>But when we start picking out specifics like the Father,

1818
01:51:26.039 --> 01:51:29.479
<v Speaker 5>the Son, the Holy Spirit, those are properties that are

1819
01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:31.760
<v Speaker 5>being picked out that are identities, of.

1820
01:51:31.800 --> 01:51:33.840
<v Speaker 33>Course, and that's why you claim that there are three

1821
01:51:33.920 --> 01:51:35.800
<v Speaker 33>persons but not there are three God, because they are

1822
01:51:35.880 --> 01:51:37.159
<v Speaker 33>three identities.

1823
01:51:37.239 --> 01:51:39.319
<v Speaker 19>But that's what I'm trying to say is that if there.

1824
01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:43.079
<v Speaker 33>Are three different identities and each three of them are individually.

1825
01:51:42.640 --> 01:51:45.399
<v Speaker 19>Fully God, then why would there not be three Gods?

1826
01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:49.800
<v Speaker 5>Because the term God is intended first of all to

1827
01:51:49.920 --> 01:51:52.960
<v Speaker 5>pick out the person of the Father, and so there's

1828
01:51:53.039 --> 01:51:56.279
<v Speaker 5>God by identity, and then there's God by predication. So

1829
01:51:56.479 --> 01:51:58.880
<v Speaker 5>you're the argument that you're making there assumes that the

1830
01:51:59.039 --> 01:52:02.520
<v Speaker 5>word God only picks out one thing. But in divine revelation,

1831
01:52:02.640 --> 01:52:06.479
<v Speaker 5>for example, the word God picks out multiple things, such

1832
01:52:06.560 --> 01:52:13.119
<v Speaker 5>as divine persons, divine energies, the divine essence, divine human

1833
01:52:14.760 --> 01:52:18.079
<v Speaker 5>people that are called gods or divinities, and then angels

1834
01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:20.479
<v Speaker 5>that are called gods or divinities or demons. The word

1835
01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:24.119
<v Speaker 5>God good is a broad term that can be used

1836
01:52:24.119 --> 01:52:25.960
<v Speaker 5>to pick out all of those things. And so the

1837
01:52:26.119 --> 01:52:30.159
<v Speaker 5>entire Muslim argument is premised on a word concept fallacy

1838
01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:32.439
<v Speaker 5>that the word God only picks out or has a

1839
01:52:32.520 --> 01:52:35.840
<v Speaker 5>reference to one thing, and that's the mistake. And I'm

1840
01:52:35.880 --> 01:52:38.920
<v Speaker 5>pointing out that even in your own system, it doesn't

1841
01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:41.720
<v Speaker 5>work that way, which is why we ask Jake the

1842
01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:45.760
<v Speaker 5>questions about whether all his attributes are self existent, because

1843
01:52:45.760 --> 01:52:48.399
<v Speaker 5>it would be the same problem applied to the attributes

1844
01:52:48.439 --> 01:52:49.399
<v Speaker 5>that you're making to us.

1845
01:52:52.119 --> 01:52:52.880
<v Speaker 19>I see, I see it.

1846
01:52:54.079 --> 01:52:55.920
<v Speaker 33>So do you what I would ask is then what

1847
01:52:56.000 --> 01:52:58.640
<v Speaker 33>I would then ask would be if God has this

1848
01:52:58.800 --> 01:53:01.479
<v Speaker 33>nuanced definition when we make this, when you make the

1849
01:53:01.520 --> 01:53:02.079
<v Speaker 33>statement from the.

1850
01:53:02.159 --> 01:53:04.319
<v Speaker 5>Ubanari, you have the same position. You have the same

1851
01:53:04.479 --> 01:53:05.840
<v Speaker 5>metaphysical scheme at work.

1852
01:53:06.760 --> 01:53:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, for sure. I'm just trying to understand this.

1853
01:53:08.720 --> 01:53:12.520
<v Speaker 19>So, so when we say that the Father is God, you're.

1854
01:53:12.399 --> 01:53:15.159
<v Speaker 33>Saying that it's both predication and identity.

1855
01:53:15.279 --> 01:53:18.840
<v Speaker 5>With the Father. The Father is God because he's fought,

1856
01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:24.600
<v Speaker 5>he is source, are found, cause, et cetera. Yes, and

1857
01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:31.199
<v Speaker 5>the Son and the Spirit participate in divinity by predication, right,

1858
01:53:31.319 --> 01:53:34.800
<v Speaker 5>so they receive their divinity from the Father. But properly speaking,

1859
01:53:34.920 --> 01:53:37.960
<v Speaker 5>in monarchical trinitarianism, the word God is a reference to

1860
01:53:38.039 --> 01:53:38.880
<v Speaker 5>the person of the Father.

1861
01:53:39.720 --> 01:53:42.600
<v Speaker 33>Okay, so only the Father can be used God in

1862
01:53:42.680 --> 01:53:45.960
<v Speaker 33>an identical form, but for the Son and the Holy Spirit,

1863
01:53:45.960 --> 01:53:47.479
<v Speaker 33>it would have to be in a predicative for is

1864
01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:48.239
<v Speaker 33>that im I understanding that?

1865
01:53:48.359 --> 01:53:51.199
<v Speaker 5>Because that yeah, because they receive U. I mean, it's

1866
01:53:51.279 --> 01:53:53.359
<v Speaker 5>not wrong to call the Son God because he has

1867
01:53:53.399 --> 01:53:57.159
<v Speaker 5>the divine nature, but it's for us first and foremost.

1868
01:53:57.239 --> 01:53:59.560
<v Speaker 5>God picks out the person of the Father, but it

1869
01:53:59.640 --> 01:54:01.920
<v Speaker 5>can also will be used to pick out the divine nature,

1870
01:54:02.920 --> 01:54:05.199
<v Speaker 5>divine operations, and it can also be used to pick

1871
01:54:05.239 --> 01:54:09.399
<v Speaker 5>out human and angelic and demonic entities. The demons are

1872
01:54:09.399 --> 01:54:12.600
<v Speaker 5>called gods, for example. So then if I were to

1873
01:54:14.079 --> 01:54:15.439
<v Speaker 5>can I give you an example?

1874
01:54:16.199 --> 01:54:18.159
<v Speaker 33>Okay, sorry, I just want to ask one quick question.

1875
01:54:18.680 --> 01:54:20.199
<v Speaker 33>So if I were to say the Son is God,

1876
01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:22.479
<v Speaker 33>then I'm not really saying that he is God.

1877
01:54:22.399 --> 01:54:24.520
<v Speaker 2>In the identical sense. I'm saying that he is divine.

1878
01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:28.279
<v Speaker 33>He possesses God's essence, but he's not actually God in

1879
01:54:28.319 --> 01:54:29.119
<v Speaker 33>the identical.

1880
01:54:28.840 --> 01:54:31.359
<v Speaker 5>Sense, not in the sense of being the Father, because

1881
01:54:31.399 --> 01:54:35.760
<v Speaker 5>the Father is properly speaking, the cause, the fount, the source,

1882
01:54:35.840 --> 01:54:39.079
<v Speaker 5>et cetera. And that's why Jesus says the Father is greater.

1883
01:54:39.279 --> 01:54:42.600
<v Speaker 5>That's the orthodox understanding of monarchical trinitarianism.

1884
01:54:44.720 --> 01:54:46.720
<v Speaker 33>I see, I see, But then see That's when I

1885
01:54:46.800 --> 01:54:49.279
<v Speaker 33>start to see what Justin Martyr was talking about in

1886
01:54:49.359 --> 01:54:52.800
<v Speaker 33>his dialogue with Trifle, because you just denied the individ

1887
01:54:53.159 --> 01:54:55.760
<v Speaker 33>the identity of God with Jesus Christ to him. I

1888
01:54:55.840 --> 01:54:59.239
<v Speaker 33>think a majority of Orthodox Christians would say, no, Jesus

1889
01:54:59.319 --> 01:55:03.920
<v Speaker 33>Christ or the One is God by identity, like it's

1890
01:55:03.960 --> 01:55:05.720
<v Speaker 33>not just a mere predication.

1891
01:55:05.520 --> 01:55:10.039
<v Speaker 5>That's just assuming again, that argument is assuming equalitarianism and

1892
01:55:10.119 --> 01:55:12.000
<v Speaker 5>that the word God only has a reference to the

1893
01:55:12.039 --> 01:55:14.199
<v Speaker 5>divine nature. And that's the very thing that we just

1894
01:55:14.600 --> 01:55:17.239
<v Speaker 5>pointed out is not monarchical trinitarianism.

1895
01:55:17.359 --> 01:55:20.399
<v Speaker 2>No, My grife is really that when.

1896
01:55:20.279 --> 01:55:22.600
<v Speaker 33>We're using saying the Son is God or Jesus Christ

1897
01:55:22.720 --> 01:55:25.399
<v Speaker 33>is God, we're not actually saying that he is an

1898
01:55:25.439 --> 01:55:27.840
<v Speaker 33>identical sense, where it's more like saying it's more kin

1899
01:55:27.920 --> 01:55:30.359
<v Speaker 33>to saying God or Jesus Christ is divine.

1900
01:55:32.119 --> 01:55:35.079
<v Speaker 5>He is the divine Son who possesses the divine nature.

1901
01:55:38.439 --> 01:55:41.000
<v Speaker 33>Many Christians find that problematic though, to deny.

1902
01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:44.520
<v Speaker 5>The I mean, I'm a defender of Orthodox Christian Christianity,

1903
01:55:44.560 --> 01:55:46.920
<v Speaker 5>which is the teaching of the Second Ecumenical Council on

1904
01:55:47.079 --> 01:55:49.920
<v Speaker 5>monarchical trinitarianism. So I don't care what Roman Catholics think

1905
01:55:50.159 --> 01:55:52.640
<v Speaker 5>don't care what Protestants think. We're not interested in a

1906
01:55:52.680 --> 01:55:55.640
<v Speaker 5>popularity contest. And by the way, the Muslim view is

1907
01:55:55.760 --> 01:55:59.000
<v Speaker 5>exact same. It's just not with persons, it's with attributes.

1908
01:55:59.319 --> 01:56:01.199
<v Speaker 5>Do you believe that Allah's attributes are God?

1909
01:56:02.680 --> 01:56:02.720
<v Speaker 2>No?

1910
01:56:02.760 --> 01:56:04.199
<v Speaker 19>No, No, he possesses attributes.

1911
01:56:04.479 --> 01:56:10.199
<v Speaker 5>Okay, So the attributes are not God by identity? No,

1912
01:56:11.359 --> 01:56:16.239
<v Speaker 5>So they don't self exist, No, they depend.

1913
01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:18.960
<v Speaker 19>They're not dependent.

1914
01:56:20.039 --> 01:56:22.600
<v Speaker 5>Well, if they don't self exist, then they are in

1915
01:56:23.039 --> 01:56:26.680
<v Speaker 5>then they are. So self existence means that they are independent,

1916
01:56:27.159 --> 01:56:28.199
<v Speaker 5>So they can't be dependent.

1917
01:56:31.560 --> 01:56:31.880
<v Speaker 19>I see.

1918
01:56:32.000 --> 01:56:34.560
<v Speaker 33>So if they're dependent on God, what would be the

1919
01:56:34.600 --> 01:56:35.760
<v Speaker 33>implications of that position?

1920
01:56:36.600 --> 01:56:39.520
<v Speaker 5>Then the word God cannot just refer to Allah in

1921
01:56:39.640 --> 01:56:41.680
<v Speaker 5>one sense. It also has to pick out other things.

1922
01:56:41.720 --> 01:56:43.479
<v Speaker 5>Then you have to have other ways of counting and

1923
01:56:43.560 --> 01:56:44.600
<v Speaker 5>distinguishing in a law.

1924
01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:49.920
<v Speaker 33>So because the attributes are dependent on a law, that

1925
01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:52.479
<v Speaker 33>means that the attributes would have to be considered God

1926
01:56:52.479 --> 01:56:52.800
<v Speaker 33>as well.

1927
01:56:53.800 --> 01:56:55.920
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I'm asking you the position. Are they God

1928
01:56:56.000 --> 01:57:00.439
<v Speaker 5>by identity? Are they God by participation? They depend ourselves.

1929
01:57:01.319 --> 01:57:03.520
<v Speaker 19>I don't think they're gonna attributes for God in any sense.

1930
01:57:03.800 --> 01:57:04.920
<v Speaker 19>I think they're just attributes.

1931
01:57:05.479 --> 01:57:09.079
<v Speaker 5>So Allah's word is not Allah of course not.

1932
01:57:09.239 --> 01:57:10.159
<v Speaker 19>No, it's Alla's word.

1933
01:57:10.319 --> 01:57:11.760
<v Speaker 5>Are they uncreated or created?

1934
01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:15.159
<v Speaker 6>Uh?

1935
01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:19.039
<v Speaker 33>I would say Allah's word is created.

1936
01:57:19.239 --> 01:57:22.359
<v Speaker 5>All his words created, so the attributes of all are created.

1937
01:57:26.199 --> 01:57:28.399
<v Speaker 5>That's that's let's.

1938
01:57:28.239 --> 01:57:32.079
<v Speaker 33>See what you're positioning now, Yeah, it's it's really philosophically perplexing.

1939
01:57:32.159 --> 01:57:32.439
<v Speaker 2>You see.

1940
01:57:33.079 --> 01:57:35.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean you've had centuries of your own people

1941
01:57:35.439 --> 01:57:37.439
<v Speaker 5>debating this, right, I mean I got a book right

1942
01:57:37.479 --> 01:57:41.079
<v Speaker 5>here where Uh, of course, where a bunch of your

1943
01:57:41.119 --> 01:57:45.560
<v Speaker 5>own people are calling you guys, uh anthropomorphic heretics critique

1944
01:57:45.560 --> 01:57:47.159
<v Speaker 5>of the Palmerian creed. So I mean, do you agree

1945
01:57:47.199 --> 01:57:50.319
<v Speaker 5>with Jake's position that Allah has an uncreated foot?

1946
01:57:52.600 --> 01:57:52.760
<v Speaker 9>Uh?

1947
01:57:53.079 --> 01:57:55.119
<v Speaker 19>Yeah, we could just pause it that we don't know

1948
01:57:55.199 --> 01:57:56.159
<v Speaker 19>the hounds or the wind.

1949
01:57:56.279 --> 01:57:57.800
<v Speaker 5>I mean you can say that, but what is a

1950
01:57:57.880 --> 01:57:59.279
<v Speaker 5>foot that's nothing like a foot?

1951
01:58:00.239 --> 01:58:02.600
<v Speaker 33>Well then you're you're positing that we must know the

1952
01:58:02.640 --> 01:58:03.880
<v Speaker 33>hows and whyness of God?

1953
01:58:03.960 --> 01:58:04.920
<v Speaker 5>But I is the foot?

1954
01:58:05.319 --> 01:58:08.000
<v Speaker 4>Okay, I don't care how you frame it however you want.

1955
01:58:08.399 --> 01:58:10.840
<v Speaker 5>Is the foot uncreated or creator? You said all I

1956
01:58:10.880 --> 01:58:13.159
<v Speaker 5>has created attributes, which is heresy by the way, in

1957
01:58:13.239 --> 01:58:13.720
<v Speaker 5>your position.

1958
01:58:14.920 --> 01:58:17.079
<v Speaker 33>Well, I'm fallible, you know, I'm trying to say, I'm

1959
01:58:17.079 --> 01:58:17.680
<v Speaker 33>still in the learning.

1960
01:58:17.880 --> 01:58:19.680
<v Speaker 5>Okay, do you guys kill each other over that? Or

1961
01:58:19.800 --> 01:58:22.520
<v Speaker 5>is that cool? Unfallible? Just say I'm fallible. It's like

1962
01:58:22.560 --> 01:58:27.000
<v Speaker 5>I can commit shirt, but I'm fallible. Didn't you guys

1963
01:58:27.079 --> 01:58:31.279
<v Speaker 5>kill each other mut the Mutazila didn't? Were there battles

1964
01:58:31.319 --> 01:58:31.560
<v Speaker 5>over this?

1965
01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Of course there were battles over okay?

1966
01:58:34.159 --> 01:58:36.399
<v Speaker 5>So do we know? I thought this was simple position,

1967
01:58:36.600 --> 01:58:39.840
<v Speaker 5>like all is one? Right? Are the attributes created or uncreated?

1968
01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:43.560
<v Speaker 12>Well, I don't know why the attributes would.

1969
01:58:43.399 --> 01:58:45.760
<v Speaker 33>Even be in an argument because we're not positing that

1970
01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:49.640
<v Speaker 33>the attributes are separate individual person in So.

1971
01:58:49.680 --> 01:58:51.439
<v Speaker 5>You, in other words, you don't want me to bring

1972
01:58:51.520 --> 01:58:53.560
<v Speaker 5>them into the argument because it shows that you have

1973
01:58:53.640 --> 01:58:57.039
<v Speaker 5>the exact same metaphysical problem that you're putting on. I

1974
01:58:57.199 --> 01:59:01.319
<v Speaker 5>just don't understand how the argument is because it shows

1975
01:59:01.399 --> 01:59:03.399
<v Speaker 5>the stupidity of the position to say that Allah has

1976
01:59:03.399 --> 01:59:05.600
<v Speaker 5>an uncreated foot and then you just said that Alla

1977
01:59:05.640 --> 01:59:06.720
<v Speaker 5>has created attributes.

1978
01:59:07.159 --> 01:59:08.920
<v Speaker 33>But you see, this is what this is how I'm

1979
01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:10.479
<v Speaker 33>this is how I'm understanding.

1980
01:59:10.960 --> 01:59:13.960
<v Speaker 5>So the trinitarian con Now you're going to my position.

1981
01:59:14.239 --> 01:59:17.119
<v Speaker 5>I want to know about is there an uncreated foot

1982
01:59:17.199 --> 01:59:19.760
<v Speaker 5>or a creative foot? Is all his foot? I'm creator created?

1983
01:59:19.800 --> 01:59:20.359
<v Speaker 5>Which one is it.

1984
01:59:22.039 --> 01:59:22.960
<v Speaker 19>Ultra? I'm not sure.

1985
01:59:23.319 --> 01:59:25.640
<v Speaker 5>But the thing is, I'm not so you don't have

1986
01:59:25.760 --> 01:59:27.880
<v Speaker 5>a so so you don't have a school. There's no

1987
01:59:27.920 --> 01:59:29.560
<v Speaker 5>akida for you. You can just make it up as

1988
01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:30.159
<v Speaker 5>you go or what?

1989
01:59:31.159 --> 01:59:31.319
<v Speaker 2>All?

1990
01:59:31.399 --> 01:59:33.279
<v Speaker 33>Sure, I don't need to commit myself to a certain

1991
01:59:33.319 --> 01:59:34.399
<v Speaker 33>nakita on this stream.

1992
01:59:34.479 --> 01:59:35.680
<v Speaker 5>You don't try to ask questions?

1993
01:59:36.159 --> 01:59:36.520
<v Speaker 2>All right?

1994
01:59:36.600 --> 01:59:43.399
<v Speaker 5>So that's this honest that what I'm point was, Troy, see,

1995
01:59:43.399 --> 01:59:44.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't have to commit to any now you do

1996
01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:49.279
<v Speaker 5>if you're gonna, uh teach Islam, you're supposed to be

1997
01:59:49.399 --> 01:59:52.399
<v Speaker 5>part of some school. There's no make it up as

1998
01:59:52.439 --> 01:59:54.960
<v Speaker 5>you go. And you heard him say that Allah has

1999
01:59:55.279 --> 01:59:59.279
<v Speaker 5>created attributes, the speech of Allah is created. That's pretty much.

2000
01:59:59.319 --> 02:00:01.520
<v Speaker 5>I think every mon someone believes that's heresy. I don't.

2001
02:00:01.520 --> 02:00:03.319
<v Speaker 5>I don't think there's any OFLSS left that think that.

2002
02:00:04.640 --> 02:00:11.680
<v Speaker 2>Troy and you, okay, can you hear me?

2003
02:00:12.000 --> 02:00:12.199
<v Speaker 7>Yep?

2004
02:00:14.319 --> 02:00:17.159
<v Speaker 8>So I'm an ex gnostic coming intoward the dogs.

2005
02:00:17.199 --> 02:00:20.199
<v Speaker 2>He and I just have a pretty much a question

2006
02:00:20.600 --> 02:00:21.680
<v Speaker 2>for something I'm.

2007
02:00:21.560 --> 02:00:26.000
<v Speaker 10>Confused about, which is how is lady wisdom and proverbs

2008
02:00:26.119 --> 02:00:27.439
<v Speaker 10>understood and orthodox?

2009
02:00:28.039 --> 02:00:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Is she identified with Christ?

2010
02:00:29.680 --> 02:00:33.920
<v Speaker 5>The logos that feminine yes the Paul in the New

2011
02:00:34.039 --> 02:00:37.840
<v Speaker 5>Testament identifies Christ as the wisdom of God. So it's

2012
02:00:37.880 --> 02:00:41.920
<v Speaker 5>a personification of God's wisdom. But that wisdom is the

2013
02:00:42.000 --> 02:00:45.359
<v Speaker 5>second person of the Godhead. There's no feminine person in

2014
02:00:45.439 --> 02:00:48.279
<v Speaker 5>the Trinity. There's no not that's a gnostic idea. In fact,

2015
02:00:48.319 --> 02:00:51.560
<v Speaker 5>I was just reading Carl Young who says that he's

2016
02:00:51.560 --> 02:00:56.439
<v Speaker 5>a gnostic because of the Trinity banished the Goddess from

2017
02:00:56.600 --> 02:00:57.239
<v Speaker 5>the Godhead.

2018
02:00:57.399 --> 02:00:58.079
<v Speaker 12>So uh.

2019
02:01:00.039 --> 02:01:02.479
<v Speaker 5>But it's also a reference to the Church. The Church

2020
02:01:02.600 --> 02:01:05.439
<v Speaker 5>is the feminine, the house of God that's built on

2021
02:01:05.520 --> 02:01:09.000
<v Speaker 5>seven pillars, that offers bread and wine, as the text discussed.

2022
02:01:09.079 --> 02:01:12.680
<v Speaker 5>That's a prediction of the Eucharist, the divine liturgy. There's

2023
02:01:12.720 --> 02:01:15.800
<v Speaker 5>also a reference to probably marry the Theatocos.

2024
02:01:16.880 --> 02:01:19.079
<v Speaker 2>That's actually fantastic, Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

2025
02:01:19.399 --> 02:01:22.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, great questions. I'm glad that somebody brought nobody's ever

2026
02:01:22.279 --> 02:01:24.359
<v Speaker 5>brought that up. That's that's actually a really good question.

2027
02:01:26.079 --> 02:01:40.600
<v Speaker 5>Jubba Glitchy Rhythm five dollars Jay, explain why Protestants. Can

2028
02:01:40.680 --> 02:01:43.039
<v Speaker 5>you explain to the provinces why we're not all saints?

2029
02:01:43.119 --> 02:01:45.840
<v Speaker 5>They love discrediting saints with the verse from Corinthians.

2030
02:01:47.199 --> 02:01:48.000
<v Speaker 9>Well, we're all.

2031
02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:51.960
<v Speaker 5>Saints in potentia, or we're all called out, but not

2032
02:01:52.119 --> 02:01:56.079
<v Speaker 5>everybody is at the level of Saint Paul or a

2033
02:01:56.439 --> 02:01:58.960
<v Speaker 5>Saint Basil. So that's to me that seems like it

2034
02:01:59.000 --> 02:02:00.880
<v Speaker 5>should be a no brainer. What's up, man, Jebbo?

2035
02:02:01.079 --> 02:02:04.520
<v Speaker 6>He all right, I have a question about icons. There's

2036
02:02:04.560 --> 02:02:07.720
<v Speaker 6>this argument against icons that I don't know how they answer. Okay,

2037
02:02:08.600 --> 02:02:12.720
<v Speaker 6>So it's the argument is that God's essence is inaccessible

2038
02:02:12.760 --> 02:02:17.319
<v Speaker 6>and beyond human comprehension. Even in Christ's hyposcetic union, his

2039
02:02:17.439 --> 02:02:23.640
<v Speaker 6>divine nature remains unseen and ineffable. So San Gregory wrote

2040
02:02:23.640 --> 02:02:29.239
<v Speaker 6>about this about God's invisible in nature being beyond human reach.

2041
02:02:30.520 --> 02:02:34.359
<v Speaker 6>Thus representing Christ's divine essence through icons contradicts the belief

2042
02:02:34.439 --> 02:02:37.159
<v Speaker 6>that God's divinity is entirely invisible, right.

2043
02:02:37.079 --> 02:02:39.600
<v Speaker 5>And so that's why the Seventh e Commitical Council says

2044
02:02:39.640 --> 02:02:41.760
<v Speaker 5>that it's not the divine essence that is depicted in

2045
02:02:41.840 --> 02:02:45.319
<v Speaker 5>the icons, just the divine hypostasis of the sun, not

2046
02:02:45.520 --> 02:02:48.840
<v Speaker 5>the usia. It's the person. And the reason that we

2047
02:02:48.920 --> 02:02:51.479
<v Speaker 5>can interact with the divine person is through the energies

2048
02:02:51.640 --> 02:02:55.039
<v Speaker 5>of the persons. So the energies are in hypostatic, and

2049
02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:57.600
<v Speaker 5>as the Seventh Ecmenical Council says, you can read on

2050
02:02:57.680 --> 02:02:59.680
<v Speaker 5>the Holy Icons by saying Theodore. In that book, he

2051
02:02:59.720 --> 02:03:04.680
<v Speaker 5>says that what's circumscribed is the divine hypostasis. The divine

2052
02:03:04.800 --> 02:03:07.239
<v Speaker 5>essence is uncircumscribable. So you have to have the distinction

2053
02:03:07.359 --> 02:03:10.720
<v Speaker 5>between nature and person and between essence and energy to

2054
02:03:10.840 --> 02:03:11.720
<v Speaker 5>have iconography.

2055
02:03:14.039 --> 02:03:16.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, thank you, Yeah, good question.

2056
02:03:17.840 --> 02:03:21.279
<v Speaker 5>And again on the Holy Icons by s Theodore, this

2057
02:03:21.359 --> 02:03:25.399
<v Speaker 5>tude explicitly answers that very question. Everybody should read that

2058
02:03:25.439 --> 02:03:30.079
<v Speaker 5>one if they're interested in iconography. Anybody else disagree, anybody

2059
02:03:30.119 --> 02:03:34.119
<v Speaker 5>have any challenges. We still got twelve hundred people over here.

2060
02:03:36.399 --> 02:03:38.119
<v Speaker 5>Let me check to see if I missed a super

2061
02:03:38.239 --> 02:03:47.319
<v Speaker 5>chat over here on stream labs clead us here. I

2062
02:03:47.359 --> 02:03:49.319
<v Speaker 5>want to find your video. I'll send you fifty dollars

2063
02:03:49.359 --> 02:03:55.800
<v Speaker 5>if you find me the link. I mean that's come

2064
02:03:55.880 --> 02:03:58.960
<v Speaker 5>up a lot. I mean it's not like the video

2065
02:03:59.119 --> 02:04:01.279
<v Speaker 5>that questions never come up. I just don't remember off

2066
02:04:01.279 --> 02:04:03.439
<v Speaker 5>the top of my head where we've done so many

2067
02:04:03.479 --> 02:04:06.640
<v Speaker 5>live streams and that question has come up so many times.

2068
02:04:09.800 --> 02:04:11.600
<v Speaker 5>I have to think of how that guy that made

2069
02:04:11.640 --> 02:04:30.319
<v Speaker 5>the clip worded it. Batt let's try valid baptism. I

2070
02:04:30.319 --> 02:04:33.319
<v Speaker 5>don't know why this comes up. It's not about that,

2071
02:04:34.159 --> 02:04:35.560
<v Speaker 5>it's just not going to come up. See that they

2072
02:04:35.720 --> 02:04:41.119
<v Speaker 5>changed the algorithm all the time, and then stuff that

2073
02:04:41.279 --> 02:04:48.960
<v Speaker 5>used to come up doesn't come up. Maybe the clips

2074
02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:51.319
<v Speaker 5>channel guy like took his clips channel down. I don't know,

2075
02:04:51.439 --> 02:04:59.960
<v Speaker 5>maybe it's not there anymore. I just don't even understand,

2076
02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:02.479
<v Speaker 5>and like why is it even an issue, like just

2077
02:05:02.600 --> 02:05:10.439
<v Speaker 5>do what your bishop says, Like why are you like

2078
02:05:10.560 --> 02:05:13.079
<v Speaker 5>it's the practice of ro Corps to baptize everyone that

2079
02:05:13.159 --> 02:05:18.479
<v Speaker 5>comes to ro cords and that's because jurisdictions are decentralized

2080
02:05:19.239 --> 02:05:22.520
<v Speaker 5>and they can make those decisions as they choose. I

2081
02:05:22.600 --> 02:05:24.600
<v Speaker 5>just don't understand why this is a hang up for you.

2082
02:05:24.640 --> 02:05:29.520
<v Speaker 5>I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just not understood.

2083
02:05:29.520 --> 02:05:32.880
<v Speaker 5>Like to me, this is like not even like this

2084
02:05:33.119 --> 02:05:36.800
<v Speaker 5>is like the what Paul calls milk. It's time to

2085
02:05:36.880 --> 02:05:39.760
<v Speaker 5>move on to the meat. I'm not dissing you. I

2086
02:05:39.880 --> 02:05:43.399
<v Speaker 5>just don't understand the hang up or what the problem is.

2087
02:06:03.119 --> 02:06:05.720
<v Speaker 4>Let's try sacraments, see what we do with that.

2088
02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:40.439
<v Speaker 5>I don't know. I don't understand the Roman Catholic mindset

2089
02:06:40.479 --> 02:06:44.319
<v Speaker 5>that they think this is like a like a defeater

2090
02:06:44.479 --> 02:06:48.279
<v Speaker 5>for Orthodoxy. It's like they have an expectation that the

2091
02:06:48.439 --> 02:06:53.039
<v Speaker 5>or Roman the Orthodoxy will operate like Roman Catholicism, and

2092
02:06:53.159 --> 02:06:57.600
<v Speaker 5>so there's there's like a jurisdictional differentiation. They think that's

2093
02:06:57.640 --> 02:07:00.520
<v Speaker 5>a defeater. The assumption is that there there's like a

2094
02:07:00.600 --> 02:07:03.600
<v Speaker 5>one size fits all. It's like, I just don't I

2095
02:07:03.600 --> 02:07:07.000
<v Speaker 5>don't understand the I don't think it's the Orthodox clips guy.

2096
02:07:07.079 --> 02:07:11.640
<v Speaker 5>But let me see if he clipped it. Ah, here

2097
02:07:11.640 --> 02:07:11.880
<v Speaker 5>it is?

2098
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:12.039
<v Speaker 26>This?

2099
02:07:12.119 --> 02:07:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Is it? Like this is something that would need to

2100
02:07:15.359 --> 02:07:16.600
<v Speaker 2>be settled because there's a lot.

2101
02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:21.319
<v Speaker 5>Of or is this it? I think this is it

2102
02:07:22.840 --> 02:07:30.239
<v Speaker 5>debunking the donatus accusation. It may be that one. Let's

2103
02:07:30.239 --> 02:07:41.479
<v Speaker 5>see Protestantism, Tomism. I think it's this one. Like this

2104
02:07:41.960 --> 02:07:44.119
<v Speaker 5>because this Anglican dude that we had this debate with.

2105
02:07:44.399 --> 02:07:45.960
<v Speaker 5>If you want, you can go listen to the whole

2106
02:07:46.079 --> 02:07:48.439
<v Speaker 5>Anglican debate, which is about a month ago. If you

2107
02:07:48.560 --> 02:07:51.760
<v Speaker 5>used to go look at the live streams, you'll find

2108
02:07:51.840 --> 02:07:54.000
<v Speaker 5>the debate I had with the Anglican dude. They got

2109
02:07:54.000 --> 02:07:57.800
<v Speaker 5>pretty heated. I think that's the video. And I'm not

2110
02:07:57.960 --> 02:08:00.520
<v Speaker 5>just picking that because you said you get fit th Bucks.

2111
02:08:00.560 --> 02:08:08.000
<v Speaker 5>But I mean he's got this listed as uh rebaptism

2112
02:08:08.079 --> 02:08:11.720
<v Speaker 5>in the church. I actually think there was another. I

2113
02:08:11.760 --> 02:08:13.439
<v Speaker 5>think that one addresses it, but I actually think there

2114
02:08:13.520 --> 02:08:17.720
<v Speaker 5>was another one, a different clips channel anyway, Stu, what

2115
02:08:17.800 --> 02:08:18.119
<v Speaker 5>they tell you?

2116
02:08:18.199 --> 02:08:18.359
<v Speaker 30>Man?

2117
02:08:18.840 --> 02:08:19.560
<v Speaker 5>Smiley Todd?

2118
02:08:19.600 --> 02:08:19.960
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

2119
02:08:24.640 --> 02:08:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Hey? Uh?

2120
02:08:26.039 --> 02:08:29.760
<v Speaker 28>Before I say something, have your thought naming your thing

2121
02:08:29.880 --> 02:08:31.439
<v Speaker 28>like the dire situation?

2122
02:08:33.560 --> 02:08:34.000
<v Speaker 9>Nothing like that.

2123
02:08:34.760 --> 02:08:36.479
<v Speaker 8>Have your thought naming your thing like the.

2124
02:08:36.600 --> 02:08:41.159
<v Speaker 12>Dire situation, like you know, the I R.

2125
02:08:41.199 --> 02:08:47.239
<v Speaker 28>E situation or dire straits second of off uh and Yahwehism,

2126
02:08:47.399 --> 02:08:50.760
<v Speaker 28>you know, the proto religion before God I showed himself

2127
02:08:50.800 --> 02:08:53.319
<v Speaker 28>to the ancient Judaeans excess.

2128
02:08:53.479 --> 02:08:54.079
<v Speaker 5>I don't believe that.

2129
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but like a shira?

2130
02:08:56.720 --> 02:09:00.199
<v Speaker 28>Do you think ishira is like a typology of the vehicles,

2131
02:09:00.279 --> 02:09:03.600
<v Speaker 28>like an early concept in the subconscious, or like an

2132
02:09:03.720 --> 02:09:07.439
<v Speaker 28>early version of what humans would consider the Holy ghost,

2133
02:09:07.640 --> 02:09:10.600
<v Speaker 28>like a primordial concept before we understood.

2134
02:09:10.119 --> 02:09:13.079
<v Speaker 5>There was one God. No, and I don't believe any

2135
02:09:13.079 --> 02:09:16.359
<v Speaker 5>of that. So, squirrel in Oz.

2136
02:09:28.800 --> 02:09:29.199
<v Speaker 4>Are you there?

2137
02:09:29.680 --> 02:09:34.960
<v Speaker 5>I'm mute, squirrel in Oz there, am.

2138
02:09:35.000 --> 02:09:35.560
<v Speaker 26>How are you going?

2139
02:09:36.079 --> 02:09:36.880
<v Speaker 5>What's on your mind?

2140
02:09:38.039 --> 02:09:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

2141
02:09:38.359 --> 02:09:38.800
<v Speaker 8>Check it out.

2142
02:09:38.880 --> 02:09:42.840
<v Speaker 26>So I was raised a Protestant and actually kind of

2143
02:09:42.880 --> 02:09:47.039
<v Speaker 26>cost go of all things and observed it. I'm an

2144
02:09:47.119 --> 02:09:51.159
<v Speaker 26>inquirer into Orthodox and I was going through prayer book

2145
02:09:51.319 --> 02:09:55.800
<v Speaker 26>and there is particular prayer in our morning prayers where

2146
02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:59.760
<v Speaker 26>it led towards the Theotokos and some of it I

2147
02:10:00.000 --> 02:10:01.000
<v Speaker 26>she just can't get.

2148
02:10:00.880 --> 02:10:03.479
<v Speaker 8>My head around to where it doesn't seem.

2149
02:10:03.359 --> 02:10:08.039
<v Speaker 26>Like you're just worshiping the theotoco and asking the Theotokos

2150
02:10:08.119 --> 02:10:08.920
<v Speaker 26>perfect us.

2151
02:10:09.119 --> 02:10:14.479
<v Speaker 5>Okay, well, she's praying for us, and I understand that objection.

2152
02:10:14.640 --> 02:10:18.079
<v Speaker 5>I did a video that you should watch on the

2153
02:10:18.359 --> 02:10:20.439
<v Speaker 5>Mary is the Arc of the Covenant, So I'd go say,

2154
02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:22.960
<v Speaker 5>watch that forty minute video and that will help, I think,

2155
02:10:23.119 --> 02:10:27.680
<v Speaker 5>to explain the biblical case for the Marian doctrines. But

2156
02:10:27.800 --> 02:10:30.359
<v Speaker 5>it's not faq knight, So look for people who disagree.

2157
02:10:31.119 --> 02:10:33.079
<v Speaker 5>So if you have a disagreement, if you're a Catholic,

2158
02:10:33.079 --> 02:10:35.720
<v Speaker 5>a Protestant, dispensation, so it's not catechumen knight like for

2159
02:10:35.760 --> 02:10:38.840
<v Speaker 5>people who disagree like the Muslim guy. It was a

2160
02:10:38.880 --> 02:10:42.720
<v Speaker 5>great Muslim interaction. Grubs McGee ten dollars. Do you see

2161
02:10:42.760 --> 02:10:49.680
<v Speaker 5>the controversy about Seraphim Holland I did not. His clip

2162
02:10:49.760 --> 02:10:52.640
<v Speaker 5>says works are necessary for salvation. It triggers the Protestants.

2163
02:10:54.399 --> 02:10:56.760
<v Speaker 5>I didn't. I'm not familiar with that clip, but I

2164
02:10:56.840 --> 02:11:00.239
<v Speaker 5>mean it's funny because like people, the probably this is

2165
02:11:00.279 --> 02:11:03.800
<v Speaker 5>gets so tripped up on word concept fallacies, and there's

2166
02:11:03.840 --> 02:11:06.800
<v Speaker 5>absolutely a sense in which, yeah, works aren't necessary for salvation.

2167
02:11:08.920 --> 02:11:11.600
<v Speaker 5>I mean, that's literally what James says. And when you

2168
02:11:11.640 --> 02:11:14.560
<v Speaker 5>look at when Paul says in Galatians five that the

2169
02:11:15.119 --> 02:11:17.800
<v Speaker 5>faith that counts is the one that worketh through love,

2170
02:11:18.239 --> 02:11:20.479
<v Speaker 5>that's Paul saying that a working faith is the only

2171
02:11:20.520 --> 02:11:24.359
<v Speaker 5>one that saves you. Therefore, works are necessary. Cletus says

2172
02:11:24.399 --> 02:11:26.199
<v Speaker 5>for fifty dollars, thank you. My issue, to be clear,

2173
02:11:26.279 --> 02:11:29.319
<v Speaker 5>is that if it's a contradiction with the theology and

2174
02:11:29.399 --> 02:11:35.680
<v Speaker 5>problem of rebaptism without addressing post baptismal sins aka, what

2175
02:11:35.800 --> 02:11:38.079
<v Speaker 5>if God asked me about my sins prior to corrective

2176
02:11:38.159 --> 02:11:42.439
<v Speaker 5>baptism and he considers my first baptism valid. I mean,

2177
02:11:43.399 --> 02:11:46.840
<v Speaker 5>You're becoming Orthodox, so God's led you to Orthodoxy. God's

2178
02:11:46.880 --> 02:11:49.039
<v Speaker 5>not the being counter trying to trick you up on

2179
02:11:49.880 --> 02:11:52.720
<v Speaker 5>the Roman Catholic baptism being valid and then now you're

2180
02:11:52.840 --> 02:11:56.439
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it just doesn't you need to be immersed

2181
02:11:56.479 --> 02:11:59.119
<v Speaker 5>in the Orthodox mindset and stop thinking in a Roman

2182
02:11:59.159 --> 02:12:04.680
<v Speaker 5>Catholic mindset. And so it's not rebaptism, it's just baptism.

2183
02:12:05.680 --> 02:12:09.640
<v Speaker 5>So it's not corrective baptism. It's literally just baptism because

2184
02:12:09.640 --> 02:12:18.600
<v Speaker 5>there's only one baptism. And I don't understand what you

2185
02:12:18.680 --> 02:12:23.920
<v Speaker 5>say contradiction with theology with Roman Catholic theology, because the

2186
02:12:24.039 --> 02:12:27.319
<v Speaker 5>Orthodox position is not that there has to be a

2187
02:12:27.399 --> 02:12:30.520
<v Speaker 5>one size fits all. The six Ecumenical Council, for example,

2188
02:12:30.600 --> 02:12:35.960
<v Speaker 5>says in certain cases people need to be rebaptized or

2189
02:12:36.079 --> 02:12:41.560
<v Speaker 5>quote just baptized because they were baptized into the Eunomian position, right,

2190
02:12:42.399 --> 02:12:47.560
<v Speaker 5>which is a single immersion that presupposes an anti Trinitarian theology.

2191
02:12:48.640 --> 02:12:51.079
<v Speaker 5>And then they talk about other situations where people can

2192
02:12:51.119 --> 02:12:58.560
<v Speaker 5>be received through profession of rejection of the heresies. So

2193
02:12:58.720 --> 02:13:02.000
<v Speaker 5>if it's a schism and everything was done correctly, but

2194
02:13:02.119 --> 02:13:05.279
<v Speaker 5>they might have been just in schism, and so the

2195
02:13:05.319 --> 02:13:09.560
<v Speaker 5>impediment to receiving the grace is removed by the profession

2196
02:13:09.680 --> 02:13:13.880
<v Speaker 5>of error or rejecting the error, there's no need to

2197
02:13:13.960 --> 02:13:19.199
<v Speaker 5>do the ritual over again, right. So that's why, for example,

2198
02:13:19.239 --> 02:13:22.199
<v Speaker 5>the Novationists and the Canons of Nicea are received without

2199
02:13:22.319 --> 02:13:27.159
<v Speaker 5>being rebaptized or revested. It's a case by case basis.

2200
02:13:27.239 --> 02:13:29.239
<v Speaker 5>There's not a one size fits all. That's what I'm

2201
02:13:29.239 --> 02:13:32.079
<v Speaker 5>trying to tell you. It's like you have a presupposition

2202
02:13:32.159 --> 02:13:35.600
<v Speaker 5>of a Roman Catholic mindset that unless Orthodoxy has a

2203
02:13:35.760 --> 02:13:39.520
<v Speaker 5>single way for every jurisdiction and every bishop to do this,

2204
02:13:39.800 --> 02:13:45.279
<v Speaker 5>then it's a quote contradiction. Economia means that there's flexibility

2205
02:13:45.399 --> 02:13:49.039
<v Speaker 5>with the interpretation and application of the canons. It's not

2206
02:13:49.279 --> 02:13:54.399
<v Speaker 5>possible to keep all the canons. They're insane, many of them.

2207
02:13:54.720 --> 02:13:58.800
<v Speaker 5>They're impossible. They're about places that no longer exist. They're

2208
02:13:58.880 --> 02:14:02.840
<v Speaker 5>for their time and for the place going. Clergy can't

2209
02:14:02.920 --> 02:14:07.079
<v Speaker 5>ride horses in ancient canons. That was because in the

2210
02:14:07.119 --> 02:14:11.000
<v Speaker 5>Middle Ages there's nobility, and clergy are not state members

2211
02:14:11.039 --> 02:14:15.399
<v Speaker 5>of the state. They're clergy, so they can't ride on horses,

2212
02:14:15.600 --> 02:14:19.079
<v Speaker 5>which is a sign of nobility. So idiots read the

2213
02:14:19.159 --> 02:14:23.399
<v Speaker 5>canons and they think to precate ride a horse because

2214
02:14:23.439 --> 02:14:26.560
<v Speaker 5>the ancient canon said it. Now both the ancient canon

2215
02:14:26.640 --> 02:14:29.000
<v Speaker 5>said you can't go pray in the synagogue. Yeah, because

2216
02:14:29.039 --> 02:14:31.399
<v Speaker 5>the principle there is not bound by time and space.

2217
02:14:32.039 --> 02:14:37.119
<v Speaker 5>This is an eternal principle. About true worship the Ten Commandments,

2218
02:14:37.960 --> 02:14:40.159
<v Speaker 5>and so you can't go and pray with the Protestants

2219
02:14:40.159 --> 02:14:43.399
<v Speaker 5>and the Roman Catholics in their churches and celebrate the

2220
02:14:43.560 --> 02:14:46.680
<v Speaker 5>Mass and the novs Orto because they don't have the

2221
02:14:46.800 --> 02:14:50.680
<v Speaker 5>Orthodox faith. So it's a violation of the moral principle

2222
02:14:50.720 --> 02:14:54.680
<v Speaker 5>that the canon expresses. That moral principle doesn't change. It

2223
02:14:54.800 --> 02:14:56.960
<v Speaker 5>never becomes the case that, oh, we can go and

2224
02:14:57.000 --> 02:14:59.279
<v Speaker 5>pray in the mosques. Now it's cool because the pope

2225
02:14:59.359 --> 02:15:03.520
<v Speaker 5>says so, and he does it. Okay, that doesn't fluctuate.

2226
02:15:04.399 --> 02:15:08.039
<v Speaker 5>The principle stays the same. Right, it's the spirit of

2227
02:15:08.079 --> 02:15:11.680
<v Speaker 5>the law, not the letter of the law that matters.

2228
02:15:13.640 --> 02:15:17.000
<v Speaker 5>So what was the spirit of the law that clergy

2229
02:15:17.079 --> 02:15:20.520
<v Speaker 5>can't ride on a horse? Is that clergy are supposed

2230
02:15:20.520 --> 02:15:24.640
<v Speaker 5>to be distinct from the civil state, because the Canons

2231
02:15:24.680 --> 02:15:28.600
<v Speaker 5>of Chalcedon, by the way, which refutes the papacy, say

2232
02:15:28.720 --> 02:15:31.199
<v Speaker 5>that no clergy can be a member of the state.

2233
02:15:32.680 --> 02:15:35.880
<v Speaker 5>And by the eleventh century the Gregorian reforms, the papacy

2234
02:15:35.960 --> 02:15:39.600
<v Speaker 5>becomes a world emperor with armies. That violates the ancient

2235
02:15:39.600 --> 02:15:42.359
<v Speaker 5>canons of Chalcedon. How do I know that that's a

2236
02:15:42.439 --> 02:15:46.520
<v Speaker 5>canon that isn't time bound and fluctuating and based on

2237
02:15:46.600 --> 02:15:50.439
<v Speaker 5>the times, because the principle is forever there that the

2238
02:15:50.600 --> 02:15:53.600
<v Speaker 5>state is not the church. That's not something that evolves

2239
02:15:53.640 --> 02:15:56.800
<v Speaker 5>and fluctuates over time. There are two distinct entities. That's

2240
02:15:56.800 --> 02:16:02.119
<v Speaker 5>the meaning of the Byzantine doubleheaded eagle. And what does

2241
02:16:02.199 --> 02:16:05.760
<v Speaker 5>Jesus say about the law? Right? What does Paul say?

2242
02:16:05.760 --> 02:16:07.520
<v Speaker 5>It's the spirit of the law, it's not the letter

2243
02:16:07.640 --> 02:16:10.760
<v Speaker 5>of the law. And what does every idiot and spurg do.

2244
02:16:11.000 --> 02:16:12.319
<v Speaker 5>They go by the letter of the law and they

2245
02:16:12.359 --> 02:16:16.199
<v Speaker 5>think that it's all like an eternal timeless Like if

2246
02:16:16.279 --> 02:16:19.520
<v Speaker 5>you go to the shows, you're an idolator.

2247
02:16:20.039 --> 02:16:20.159
<v Speaker 2>Right.

2248
02:16:20.239 --> 02:16:22.640
<v Speaker 5>There's always some eighteen year old catechumen who converts and

2249
02:16:22.720 --> 02:16:24.520
<v Speaker 5>he reads the cantons and says that because it tells

2250
02:16:24.560 --> 02:16:25.880
<v Speaker 5>you you can't go to the shows. If you go

2251
02:16:25.920 --> 02:16:28.600
<v Speaker 5>to the movies, you're damned. It's not talking about the

2252
02:16:28.640 --> 02:16:29.079
<v Speaker 5>movie theater.

2253
02:16:29.079 --> 02:16:32.639
<v Speaker 4>It's talking about the ancient pagan festivals that would require

2254
02:16:32.680 --> 02:16:34.760
<v Speaker 4>you to worship the deities to go to the quote

2255
02:16:34.799 --> 02:16:37.680
<v Speaker 4>shows vol Ven Louve.

2256
02:16:51.000 --> 02:16:53.360
<v Speaker 5>You're not saved by faith alone. The Bible never says

2257
02:16:53.399 --> 02:16:55.680
<v Speaker 5>you're saved by faith alone. It says saved by faith

2258
02:16:55.719 --> 02:16:58.879
<v Speaker 5>apart from the works of the Jewish law. You added

2259
02:16:58.959 --> 02:17:02.520
<v Speaker 5>the faith alone part. In fact, you are not saved

2260
02:17:02.559 --> 02:17:04.959
<v Speaker 5>by faith alone. Paul says that you're saved by faith

2261
02:17:05.040 --> 02:17:08.760
<v Speaker 5>that works in love. A working faith keeping the commandments

2262
02:17:08.799 --> 02:17:09.879
<v Speaker 5>of love is what saves you.

2263
02:17:11.959 --> 02:17:15.600
<v Speaker 4>Are you there? Do you want to talk or not? Okay,

2264
02:17:15.680 --> 02:17:17.159
<v Speaker 4>we're back to Cornelius.

2265
02:17:21.040 --> 02:17:26.120
<v Speaker 8>Hello, Yeah, thank you, and excuse my bad English.

2266
02:17:27.000 --> 02:17:29.360
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if it's up to debate, and I.

2267
02:17:29.440 --> 02:17:34.639
<v Speaker 24>Don't know if we even disagree, so I'd have to elaborate.

2268
02:17:35.879 --> 02:17:41.920
<v Speaker 24>I'm also the Christian and disagree with the philosophical foundation

2269
02:17:42.120 --> 02:17:43.760
<v Speaker 24>of libertarianism.

2270
02:17:44.600 --> 02:17:46.200
<v Speaker 8>Yet I don't disagree with the.

2271
02:17:47.920 --> 02:17:55.280
<v Speaker 24>Conclusions, especially the economic conclusions like ownership of the body

2272
02:17:55.479 --> 02:17:58.520
<v Speaker 24>and of your own body, and therefore.

2273
02:18:00.079 --> 02:18:02.000
<v Speaker 5>I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that.

2274
02:18:02.079 --> 02:18:03.000
<v Speaker 5>Vin Low, what's up?

2275
02:18:10.799 --> 02:18:14.879
<v Speaker 42>Yeah, what do you think is the.

2276
02:18:14.920 --> 02:18:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Most distinct way of.

2277
02:18:18.559 --> 02:18:23.159
<v Speaker 28>Of like getting out of the what's it called Coptic Church? Like,

2278
02:18:23.280 --> 02:18:27.399
<v Speaker 28>what's the strongest argument to why it's a false heresy?

2279
02:18:35.200 --> 02:18:38.280
<v Speaker 5>Maybe the two Letters of cyrilta sixth Census, which admits

2280
02:18:38.360 --> 02:18:41.280
<v Speaker 5>that he has a human nature after the resurrection.

2281
02:18:43.520 --> 02:18:46.200
<v Speaker 28>H Yeah, because I feel like a lot of Coptic

2282
02:18:46.760 --> 02:18:49.799
<v Speaker 28>apologetics is that we have the same funny hats as

2283
02:18:49.840 --> 02:18:52.520
<v Speaker 28>you do, so we're equally true, if not more so.

2284
02:18:53.200 --> 02:18:55.319
<v Speaker 28>It's more obsessed with the aesthetics of it than the

2285
02:18:55.479 --> 02:18:56.600
<v Speaker 28>actual theology of it.

2286
02:18:57.280 --> 02:19:01.399
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's funny because they're they're basically losing their iconographic tradition.

2287
02:19:01.639 --> 02:19:03.719
<v Speaker 5>So if they're going to be obsessed with aesthetics, they

2288
02:19:03.920 --> 02:19:08.200
<v Speaker 5>should have maintained the iconographic tradition. But a lot of

2289
02:19:08.639 --> 02:19:12.000
<v Speaker 5>those churches have a giant TV screen. You got a

2290
02:19:12.719 --> 02:19:16.440
<v Speaker 5>Armenian Orthodox church so called, and you'll find giant TV

2291
02:19:16.559 --> 02:19:20.040
<v Speaker 5>screens within in the sanctuary, in the service. So it's

2292
02:19:20.079 --> 02:19:22.639
<v Speaker 5>hard to take that very seriously when you've got big TV,

2293
02:19:22.840 --> 02:19:24.399
<v Speaker 5>like it's like a sports bar in there with a

2294
02:19:24.440 --> 02:19:27.639
<v Speaker 5>bunch of TV screens. I remember when Rouche was leaving

2295
02:19:27.799 --> 02:19:30.719
<v Speaker 5>Armenian Orthodoxy, he said he couldn't believe that there's all

2296
02:19:30.760 --> 02:19:33.479
<v Speaker 5>these giant TV screens in there in the surface. So

2297
02:19:34.520 --> 02:19:37.719
<v Speaker 5>I mean, yeah, you kind of have to look at

2298
02:19:37.760 --> 02:19:41.200
<v Speaker 5>the theology. You can't solve it by like, you know,

2299
02:19:41.360 --> 02:19:44.959
<v Speaker 5>who's got the more cool aesthetic, And of course Coptics

2300
02:19:45.000 --> 02:19:50.319
<v Speaker 5>don't have a cool aesthetic, So sorry, I don't see

2301
02:19:50.319 --> 02:19:55.200
<v Speaker 5>anybody else, so there's no more questions. I don't see

2302
02:19:55.200 --> 02:19:58.520
<v Speaker 5>anymore super chats. Maybe we'll call it a night, Big Chunk,

2303
02:19:59.120 --> 02:20:01.680
<v Speaker 5>Why did God make the world? Why didn't God make

2304
02:20:01.719 --> 02:20:04.200
<v Speaker 5>the world smaller in size so then everyone could hear

2305
02:20:04.239 --> 02:20:08.760
<v Speaker 5>the gospel? That's really funny, dude, Van five dollars funds

2306
02:20:08.799 --> 02:20:12.479
<v Speaker 5>towards your plane ticket to Nashville so that you can

2307
02:20:12.559 --> 02:20:15.159
<v Speaker 5>host an IRL event or do you stand up at Zany's.

2308
02:20:15.840 --> 02:20:19.360
<v Speaker 5>I don't think Zanies is gonna invite me anytime soon,

2309
02:20:19.479 --> 02:20:24.079
<v Speaker 5>but people thought my crowd work at the Horror Convention

2310
02:20:24.280 --> 02:20:26.760
<v Speaker 5>was pretty funny. I wish that I'd done some crowd

2311
02:20:26.840 --> 02:20:29.159
<v Speaker 5>work with the Horror Convention people. I could have really

2312
02:20:29.280 --> 02:20:31.680
<v Speaker 5>ripped on them. They might have thrown me out, though,

2313
02:20:31.680 --> 02:20:34.440
<v Speaker 5>because I don't I don't know if. I don't know

2314
02:20:34.479 --> 02:20:36.120
<v Speaker 5>if they could take I just don't know how the

2315
02:20:36.200 --> 02:20:38.239
<v Speaker 5>bunch of horror weirdos are going to take my jokes.

2316
02:20:38.319 --> 02:20:41.840
<v Speaker 5>But it would be fun to do an event in Nashville. Again.

2317
02:20:41.879 --> 02:20:49.840
<v Speaker 5>Appreciate that vein so hybe, she's.

2318
02:20:49.680 --> 02:20:50.719
<v Speaker 11>So high.

2319
02:20:53.360 --> 02:20:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

2320
02:20:55.840 --> 02:20:58.760
<v Speaker 10>I just wanted to say, do you think that the

2321
02:20:58.879 --> 02:21:02.879
<v Speaker 10>ethan Orthodox in the Oriental Orthodox are closer to.

2322
02:21:04.360 --> 02:21:06.079
<v Speaker 2>Reunification.

2323
02:21:09.040 --> 02:21:11.840
<v Speaker 5>I don't know. I mean maybe because I.

2324
02:21:11.920 --> 02:21:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Do believe that both churches have.

2325
02:21:18.040 --> 02:21:23.680
<v Speaker 10>Affirmed the same Christology no in the nineties, I believe,

2326
02:21:24.079 --> 02:21:25.600
<v Speaker 10>if I'm not mistaken.

2327
02:21:25.760 --> 02:21:28.280
<v Speaker 5>I mean, all of these ecumenical gatherings where we all

2328
02:21:28.319 --> 02:21:30.440
<v Speaker 5>get together and pretend we're saying the same thing, they

2329
02:21:30.479 --> 02:21:34.079
<v Speaker 5>don't really accomplish much. I don't really keep up with

2330
02:21:35.079 --> 02:21:37.920
<v Speaker 5>that kind of stuff. Maybe they're moving in the right

2331
02:21:38.000 --> 02:21:41.959
<v Speaker 5>direction towards us, or it's all just kind of everybody

2332
02:21:42.079 --> 02:21:44.680
<v Speaker 5>holding hands and singing combine and pretending that we have

2333
02:21:44.760 --> 02:21:49.120
<v Speaker 5>the same theology. I don't know. I want to make

2334
02:21:49.120 --> 02:21:51.399
<v Speaker 5>sure I didn't miss the super chatus as I missed

2335
02:21:51.440 --> 02:21:55.639
<v Speaker 5>his earlier Big Chuck. I think, didn't you say the

2336
02:21:55.680 --> 02:21:58.840
<v Speaker 5>same joke earlier? Because I did see that joke. Maybe

2337
02:21:58.879 --> 02:22:00.399
<v Speaker 5>I just didn't read the joke because it was so bad.

2338
02:22:03.440 --> 02:22:04.440
<v Speaker 5>I guess I just missed it.

2339
02:22:04.600 --> 02:22:07.440
<v Speaker 4>But I mean, bro, you're throwing down dollars super chats,

2340
02:22:07.440 --> 02:22:09.399
<v Speaker 4>which dollar's not even worth.

2341
02:22:09.239 --> 02:22:13.639
<v Speaker 5>A dollar anymore. Dollar's worth like sixty cents, So basically

2342
02:22:13.680 --> 02:22:16.799
<v Speaker 5>you're throwing a sixty cents super chat. But I appreciate

2343
02:22:16.879 --> 02:22:21.239
<v Speaker 5>it better than a no sense super chat. There's still

2344
02:22:21.280 --> 02:22:24.879
<v Speaker 5>eighty people here. No one has a disagreement. We had

2345
02:22:24.959 --> 02:22:29.440
<v Speaker 5>one feisty Muslim who said all I has created attributes

2346
02:22:29.639 --> 02:22:31.440
<v Speaker 5>and then he walked it back. I was like, oops,

2347
02:22:35.479 --> 02:22:39.360
<v Speaker 5>eighty people, no one disagrees. I'm gonna assume everybody has

2348
02:22:39.520 --> 02:22:46.479
<v Speaker 5>everything correct. Nobody. Father Deacon missed out on this one.

2349
02:22:46.559 --> 02:22:49.520
<v Speaker 5>He missed. What was that one guy saying that he

2350
02:22:49.639 --> 02:22:51.799
<v Speaker 5>spoke to Jesus and that Jesus was going to give

2351
02:22:51.840 --> 02:22:56.239
<v Speaker 5>everyone bread. That dude, that dude was. That dude was

2352
02:22:56.360 --> 02:23:07.600
<v Speaker 5>tripping me out. Tallahose Patriot, Hey, jam in my car

2353
02:23:07.719 --> 02:23:12.000
<v Speaker 5>right now. Are you able to hear me? Yes, sir, awesome? Yeah.

2354
02:23:12.079 --> 02:23:15.079
<v Speaker 46>So I I was baptized Russian Orthodox as an infant.

2355
02:23:15.600 --> 02:23:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

2356
02:23:15.799 --> 02:23:18.639
<v Speaker 46>Spent most of my life in Protestant churches for some

2357
02:23:18.799 --> 02:23:20.360
<v Speaker 46>like complicated family reasons.

2358
02:23:20.959 --> 02:23:22.000
<v Speaker 2>And I've been in a.

2359
02:23:22.040 --> 02:23:25.840
<v Speaker 46>MacArthur ask church in Tallahassee the past handful of years.

2360
02:23:25.879 --> 02:23:30.000
<v Speaker 46>But I'm heavily exploring Orthodoxy and your uh, you know

2361
02:23:30.120 --> 02:23:35.120
<v Speaker 46>work and advocacy has been very impactful on that, along

2362
02:23:35.159 --> 02:23:36.840
<v Speaker 46>with some of the you know ad on accounts like

2363
02:23:36.959 --> 02:23:40.280
<v Speaker 46>Orthodox Luigi and you know others on here. But I

2364
02:23:40.360 --> 02:23:41.840
<v Speaker 46>wanted to ask, and I know you've got to talk

2365
02:23:41.840 --> 02:23:43.799
<v Speaker 46>about this like before. I mean, probably a lot of

2366
02:23:43.799 --> 02:23:45.719
<v Speaker 46>times that you could you asked us a bunch, But

2367
02:23:46.920 --> 02:23:49.319
<v Speaker 46>I feel like one thing I've kind of wrestled with

2368
02:23:50.239 --> 02:23:52.159
<v Speaker 46>as to like if I was to go, like I guess,

2369
02:23:52.920 --> 02:23:54.959
<v Speaker 46>go full Orthodox or come back into the church or

2370
02:23:54.959 --> 02:23:56.799
<v Speaker 46>however you want to work that, you know, like how

2371
02:23:56.879 --> 02:23:59.959
<v Speaker 46>I would then view you know, Protestant Christians, reform Christian

2372
02:24:00.079 --> 02:24:05.120
<v Speaker 46>et cetera. Because I feel like I've read conflicting on that.

2373
02:24:05.280 --> 02:24:08.559
<v Speaker 46>You know, like I've read some Orthodox Church to say, well,

2374
02:24:08.680 --> 02:24:10.719
<v Speaker 46>you know, I'm not going to say that they're not saved,

2375
02:24:10.959 --> 02:24:13.399
<v Speaker 46>but they're not in the fullness of biblical truth. But

2376
02:24:13.479 --> 02:24:16.959
<v Speaker 46>then I know there's some Orthodox hardcore with soteiology, So like,

2377
02:24:17.000 --> 02:24:17.959
<v Speaker 46>what would you say about that?

2378
02:24:20.399 --> 02:24:23.280
<v Speaker 5>I mean, again, I can't judge an individual person in

2379
02:24:23.399 --> 02:24:27.239
<v Speaker 5>terms of their ultimate destiny. But what we can say

2380
02:24:27.399 --> 02:24:29.520
<v Speaker 5>is what we're told to say by the Church, which

2381
02:24:29.639 --> 02:24:32.719
<v Speaker 5>is that outside the Church, you're outside the ark. And

2382
02:24:33.079 --> 02:24:35.120
<v Speaker 5>you're not just outside the arc, you're also in a

2383
02:24:35.239 --> 02:24:42.040
<v Speaker 5>situation professing heterodox ideas. There's no Christology outside the Orthodox Church.

2384
02:24:42.120 --> 02:24:47.120
<v Speaker 5>That's the Orthodox Christology. There's no uncreated grace in Protestants

2385
02:24:47.120 --> 02:24:50.200
<v Speaker 5>pseudo sacraments. In fact, Protestants aren't even called a church

2386
02:24:50.319 --> 02:24:53.760
<v Speaker 5>in the Canons. They're called a parachurch because they don't

2387
02:24:53.760 --> 02:24:57.120
<v Speaker 5>even have apisotic succession. So you don't even have what's

2388
02:24:57.280 --> 02:25:00.360
<v Speaker 5>necessary to have a quote church, because the church built

2389
02:25:00.440 --> 02:25:03.120
<v Speaker 5>on the foundation stones of the apostles. As Ephesian says,

2390
02:25:03.559 --> 02:25:06.840
<v Speaker 5>that means the succession of the bishops in the church.

2391
02:25:06.959 --> 02:25:10.120
<v Speaker 5>So while there may be sincere people in Protestanism, and

2392
02:25:10.159 --> 02:25:13.159
<v Speaker 5>the Holy Spirit is definitely working in people's hearts to

2393
02:25:13.280 --> 02:25:17.319
<v Speaker 5>bring them to Orthodoxy, we're not in any position to say, well,

2394
02:25:17.639 --> 02:25:21.520
<v Speaker 5>the sufficient means of grace are in Protestantism. If anyone

2395
02:25:21.760 --> 02:25:25.360
<v Speaker 5>was saved in quote Protestantism, it's in spite of Protestantism,

2396
02:25:25.440 --> 02:25:28.600
<v Speaker 5>and it's because they're united to the mystical body of

2397
02:25:28.639 --> 02:25:30.920
<v Speaker 5>the Church, which is the Orthodox Church. It's not because

2398
02:25:30.920 --> 02:25:35.559
<v Speaker 5>of anything to do with quote Protestantism, because it's the

2399
02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:39.319
<v Speaker 5>Church is the arc. So and again, when we look

2400
02:25:39.360 --> 02:25:43.719
<v Speaker 5>at the distinctives of Protestantism, what do we find in

2401
02:25:43.760 --> 02:25:46.200
<v Speaker 5>the first thousand years of Christianity that have the distinctives

2402
02:25:46.239 --> 02:25:50.840
<v Speaker 5>of Protestantism. All the heretical sects, the Montanists, the Massallians,

2403
02:25:51.639 --> 02:25:59.440
<v Speaker 5>the Econoclasts, the Pallagians. I mean, all of these different

2404
02:25:59.440 --> 02:26:02.520
<v Speaker 5>positions that many, many Protestant groups hold. We find that.

2405
02:26:05.000 --> 02:26:07.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm not talking about John MacArthur. I know John MacArthur

2406
02:26:07.040 --> 02:26:09.639
<v Speaker 5>wouldn't be a Pelagian. I'm just saying that, you know,

2407
02:26:09.959 --> 02:26:12.520
<v Speaker 5>we look at these different groups. There are Pellagian Protestant groups,

2408
02:26:12.559 --> 02:26:15.879
<v Speaker 5>there's Unitarian Protestant groups, there's anti Trinitarian Protestant groups, there's

2409
02:26:16.399 --> 02:26:21.319
<v Speaker 5>you know, you name it. Those are all the ancient heresies.

2410
02:26:21.479 --> 02:26:25.719
<v Speaker 5>So it's like saying, there's nice people in the ancient heresies.

2411
02:26:26.000 --> 02:26:28.319
<v Speaker 5>So like, is it okay if they just stay in

2412
02:26:28.639 --> 02:26:31.520
<v Speaker 5>the ancient heresies? No, I'm not. I know you're not

2413
02:26:31.639 --> 02:26:35.319
<v Speaker 5>saying that. I'm just saying, like, I can't sit here

2414
02:26:35.319 --> 02:26:37.239
<v Speaker 5>and tell individual people you're going to hell, you're going

2415
02:26:37.280 --> 02:26:38.399
<v Speaker 5>to hell, you're going to hell, you're going to help.

2416
02:26:38.440 --> 02:26:40.600
<v Speaker 5>That's not what we're told to do. Paul says, what

2417
02:26:40.799 --> 02:26:42.879
<v Speaker 5>do I have to do with judging those that are without?

2418
02:26:43.639 --> 02:26:46.360
<v Speaker 5>We judge those that are within, but we tell them

2419
02:26:46.760 --> 02:26:49.120
<v Speaker 5>to come in, and whether they do or don't is

2420
02:26:49.159 --> 02:26:52.079
<v Speaker 5>they're up to them. Yo yo, yo, five dollars, I

2421
02:26:52.159 --> 02:26:55.120
<v Speaker 5>watch your Holy Mountain review today? Can you recommend other

2422
02:26:55.239 --> 02:26:57.840
<v Speaker 5>titles to watch? I don't recommend you watch Holy Mountain

2423
02:26:57.879 --> 02:27:02.559
<v Speaker 5>that the movie is gross and blasphemous because it's such

2424
02:27:02.600 --> 02:27:06.200
<v Speaker 5>an important, so called, you know, a cult film. We

2425
02:27:06.360 --> 02:27:09.200
<v Speaker 5>watched it a few years ago and it's kind of

2426
02:27:09.239 --> 02:27:12.000
<v Speaker 5>a The ending was kind of anti clembactict. It did

2427
02:27:12.079 --> 02:27:18.520
<v Speaker 5>have a couple of interesting insights into like the cooming

2428
02:27:18.639 --> 02:27:21.280
<v Speaker 5>smart cities if you remember that section in the in

2429
02:27:21.360 --> 02:27:24.280
<v Speaker 5>the video, and the sex bots is hinted at. So

2430
02:27:24.360 --> 02:27:27.600
<v Speaker 5>there's some pretty wild, sort of predictive stuff in there,

2431
02:27:27.680 --> 02:27:30.520
<v Speaker 5>kind of like Metropolis from Fritz Lang. But I mean,

2432
02:27:30.520 --> 02:27:33.360
<v Speaker 5>if you're looking for weird occult movies that have predictive elements,

2433
02:27:33.479 --> 02:27:36.399
<v Speaker 5>I just did a talk on this called Satanic Cinema,

2434
02:27:37.920 --> 02:27:39.760
<v Speaker 5>and I listed a ton of movies that would be

2435
02:27:40.760 --> 02:27:43.399
<v Speaker 5>kind of in that vein of having predictive elements, and

2436
02:27:43.680 --> 02:27:46.399
<v Speaker 5>first one that comes to mind will being Metropolis. But

2437
02:27:46.479 --> 02:27:52.959
<v Speaker 5>I don't recommend any of the any job Erowski's films

2438
02:27:53.000 --> 02:27:56.159
<v Speaker 5>are just gross and blasphemous. All right, Well, I don't

2439
02:27:56.159 --> 02:27:58.280
<v Speaker 5>see anybody else, so thank you guys. It was a

2440
02:27:58.319 --> 02:28:04.879
<v Speaker 5>lot of fun tonight, just getting ready for church tomorrow. Everybody.

2441
02:28:05.000 --> 02:28:08.639
<v Speaker 5>Hopefully you can make it out to church and everybody

2442
02:28:08.680 --> 02:28:11.000
<v Speaker 5>have a good night. Oh by the way, head on

2443
02:28:11.040 --> 02:28:13.120
<v Speaker 5>over to Chalk dot com. I can't, I can't forget

2444
02:28:13.159 --> 02:28:16.520
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2454
02:28:43.319 --> 02:28:48.120
<v Speaker 5>So take these in moderation. If I took two Tonkats

2455
02:28:48.159 --> 02:28:50.479
<v Speaker 5>one day and I was like, my heart was like fluttering,

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02:28:50.559 --> 02:28:51.959
<v Speaker 5>I was up all night. So if you want to

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<v Speaker 5>get sleep, don't take a bunch of either Chad Mode

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