Speaker 1: You're a gobbling the demon a bull merchard.
Speaker 2: You saw me?
Speaker 1: I'm your dude? Is this your person on the web?
Speaker 2: I need a gender jew.
Speaker 1: I can't take and choice yourself?
Speaker 2: You saw me on you dude? Is this.
Speaker 1: It comes out of the dog the tree? Why do
Speaker 1: you pray eat the dead people? That's the traditions? A
Speaker 1: madden you heretic?
Speaker 2: Wow, you dude? Is this your.
Speaker 1: Person on the web?
Speaker 3: I need a gender jew can't he's a little dear
Speaker 3: So boys, you dudemic justification.
Speaker 4: Circular two.
Speaker 5: It's not crafty, Jamie?
Speaker 1: Did you make me? I express?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna open it up. Let's keep it on topic.
Speaker 1: One plus one plus one equal three. Icons are idealatry
Speaker 1: Jay j But Jay?
Speaker 2: Can I talk?
Speaker 7: But it wasn't next cathod Rave God is real?
Speaker 8: WI?
Speaker 9: Does he allow evil? I?
Speaker 1: Do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men? It's
Speaker 1: a no brainer. You're such a tyrannical rainer.
Speaker 10: Is this your.
Speaker 8: First time on the in or well?
Speaker 1: I need a change, can't take it these loads your
Speaker 1: slow boys? Is this your first time on the wesh?
Speaker 2: Did I need to changer? Joe?
Speaker 8: Was that an uncreated foot?
Speaker 7: Fart A mute dude, Stop repeating my name, dude, you
Speaker 7: goober's callin or I'll boot you. Where did we get
Speaker 7: the Bible from? Have you read the Cannons of Francia?
Speaker 3: What are you Catholic?
Speaker 5: Are you Prosians?
Speaker 7: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have
Speaker 7: an actual argument?
Speaker 2: There is only one church.
Speaker 7: You are in a cult, You're a goblin, a demon,
Speaker 7: a boomer?
Speaker 5: Quick question?
Speaker 7: Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?
Speaker 1: How is this your first time on being? Or well
Speaker 1: I need to change your shoe. Can't take it these loads?
Speaker 1: You're slow boys?
Speaker 9: Are you?
Speaker 1: Is this your first time on being? Or where I
Speaker 1: need a changer too?
Speaker 11: If you're a wineman in front of the line.
Speaker 1: I'm mute, dude, what.
Speaker 2: Is your epistemic justification?
Speaker 12: That argument is circular and you are refuted.
Speaker 1: Is this your first time on me?
Speaker 9: Or where I need to change your show?
Speaker 1: Can't take it these loads? You're slow boys?
Speaker 8: You?
Speaker 1: Is this your first time on me? Or where I
Speaker 1: need to change your show?
Speaker 2: If you're a lie moan front of.
Speaker 9: A line on mute dude, Yeah, there's only one thing
Speaker 9: that can bring them law together.
Speaker 5: That begins with you, but where it begins with you
Speaker 5: not give. I'm gonna say the word gives away, Begin
Speaker 5: the chance golf up.
Speaker 13: Bankers get on the floor.
Speaker 4: Thanks, give a pot.
Speaker 2: Bankers give him pain. Baker, give name your name.
Speaker 13: I want to see you ask the floor sees, get
Speaker 13: more hose, give pain, give my boots give.
Speaker 2: I want to see the CEOs.
Speaker 5: It ruin those slides in a arnderd and forty one.
Speaker 1: And tell the monkeys you find off in that.
Speaker 13: Tree what you're doing up there? Why you scared? Why
Speaker 13: you running from every bad? You ran from the true
Speaker 13: and from me?
Speaker 3: Like the female monkeys mis doumbanatas between the trees hanging.
Speaker 1: Down upside down. That's smile.
Speaker 14: Side.
Speaker 5: Tell the monkey what.
Speaker 4: You do it to me?
Speaker 13: T do a monkey, deal a macky.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, oh.
Speaker 5: Now Phil and James Brown, Kurt Franklin, do it to me?
Speaker 13: Till it parkay whoa.
Speaker 5: Oh, welcome everybody. It's a Saturday night. Why not do it?
Speaker 5: Why not open it up? Is there any there's one
Speaker 5: more song? There's a mk ultra version of the Matt
Speaker 5: Dylanukey song.
Speaker 15: Monkey you climb up in that tree, what you're doing
Speaker 15: up there while you scared, while you.
Speaker 1: Running from every debate, you and from Andrew and from me.
Speaker 15: Adla monkey, what you're doing to me.
Speaker 1: Down?
Speaker 5: Nobody wants to come to debate. Everybody's running away as
Speaker 5: soon as they done got here.
Speaker 2: Beer beer.
Speaker 5: We'll keep the local starships, star colonies in line. Beer
Speaker 5: is a mind.
Speaker 11: Killer, telling the monkey, all right, people are running away,
Speaker 11: what's this crap.
Speaker 1: Crip?
Speaker 5: Fifty five people in line and we've only got two
Speaker 5: people who want to come on and do the debates.
Speaker 5: He wont okay. One dude came back. He came back.
Speaker 5: We've got a couple of super chats and then I'm
Speaker 5: gonna open it up right way. Bulpez five dollars, bruh,
Speaker 5: give me a terms McKenna impression. Talking about tahi, Well,
Speaker 5: taw hid is when you can't talk about the unity
Speaker 5: of the being because it's essentially a hidden deity, hence
Speaker 5: the term taw hid h. Brossi, five dollars, make it
Speaker 5: fiat clap, make that fiat clap, Zammoxist, five dollars. It's
Speaker 5: the year of love.
Speaker 1: It's a year of love.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 5: I can't sing with my perfect hair metal inflection like
Speaker 5: I would like to because I still have a cold,
Speaker 5: but it's almost gone. Eric Ze two dollars. I like
Speaker 5: this dream. That means it's an algorithm push. That's what
Speaker 5: I like to hear. He knows the nature of the
Speaker 5: industry and the business. You know what I'm saying. He
Speaker 5: knows how to industry, how the industry work. Yes, you
Speaker 5: can still super chat with stream laves. Mister B see
Speaker 5: me see me, Holy Holy said, we got some perves
Speaker 5: up in the chat already, Holy says, let me see
Speaker 5: them toes? Oh, oh all you get today? You get some.
Speaker 5: I'll show you my toes. But there they're only going
Speaker 5: to be They're modest toes because they're covered. Get it,
Speaker 5: they're covered because I got sock some modest toes. We
Speaker 5: got a bunch of people online. I'm wanna go to
Speaker 5: all these people piling mister B ten dollars. I saw redditor.
Speaker 5: He said that Matt deal Honey really want the debate. Well,
Speaker 5: I guess that's it. I guess it's over. If a
Speaker 5: person on Reddit said, then Matt del Honey won, I
Speaker 5: guess that's the it's over. He won. This rhetitor said
Speaker 5: that even though MAT's arguments weren't very good. He was right,
Speaker 5: so he won the debate. Yeah, there we go. That
Speaker 5: sounds about like what I would expect from that vibe,
Speaker 5: from that vibe from that Reddit community. H Brosie five dollars.
Speaker 5: Some of the cringe cores songs are flat out hard
Speaker 5: like bankers. That stuff is objectively project pat certified. I
Speaker 5: like that techno remix that sal did of bankers. That's
Speaker 5: pretty hardcore, dude. What is your episomic justification for quantum skimmity?
Speaker 5: Toilet says, it's JA, It's DJ for five dollars. I
Speaker 5: can't talk today. I don't even know what's going on.
Speaker 5: Torren loves Jesus. Let's go, Jay. I'm glad you got
Speaker 5: monet eyes, not monetized monent eyes. Thank you. I enjoy
Speaker 5: being monent eyed. Voice of reasons face in the thumbnail
Speaker 5: got me laughing. You wrong for that.
Speaker 16: I ain't doing nothing. I ain't do nothing what you
Speaker 16: think ID need? I ain't doing nothing. I don't know
Speaker 16: what the hell voice that was supposed to be. I
Speaker 16: was making a joke to Tristan that when he becomes
Speaker 16: a black gay performer that I've already figured out the
Speaker 16: caddy gossipy kind of RuPaul character name that it would be.
Speaker 16: And when Tristan becomes a caddy RuPaul gossipy black performer,
Speaker 16: his name is gonna be Invinity. It's a combination of
Speaker 16: envy and infinity because Tristan has infinite envy, so he's Invinity.
Speaker 5: But he's like RuPaul. That's how he would laugh. So
Speaker 5: that's what that character was. I just realized, Bryce Shay
Speaker 5: five dollars if God real, Why yet Yakoub make white
Speaker 5: race a challenging question, a fair question, a question that
Speaker 5: any apologist worth his metal would struggle to answer. I
Speaker 5: can't even keep up. There's so many the superchats are
Speaker 5: just rolling in. I'm trying to get to them all. No,
Speaker 5: that's it, thank y'all, welcome everybody. We got my more
Speaker 5: super chests rolling in. John Kel says for twenty us
Speaker 5: made I FIEI Klap. Everybody likes the techno version of
Speaker 5: that song, but it's sh it's beating out my original
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety three, like a euro dance version of it.
Speaker 5: So I was gonna go to it, but maybe not.
Speaker 5: We'll never get anywhere if I keep playing music all day.
Speaker 5: But thank y'all, welcome. Everybody got five hundred chad Nerds
Speaker 5: in the chat. You can sign up, by the way,
Speaker 5: become a chad Nerd member on YouTube memberships. We've only
Speaker 5: been monetized for like nine or ten days and we
Speaker 5: already got almost two hundred members. That's crazy. Do is
Speaker 5: our stream health okay? What's going on? It seems like
Speaker 5: it says it's okay? Is it skipping because I tried
Speaker 5: to fix the uh?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 5: I guess it's about his best, the best we're gonna get.
Speaker 5: Mister b twenty bucks Jay, when he learned that his
Speaker 5: channel got monetized, Jay, he remembered, this community full of
Speaker 5: acoustic spurgs? Is that standing for autism? And he has
Speaker 5: to read out all this garbage. I wouldn't characterize the
Speaker 5: beloved super chatters as garbage. All right now? Is it
Speaker 5: gonna start dropping down the streame stream Health? I mean
Speaker 5: as long as we as long as y'all can hear me.
Speaker 5: You don't need to see my face. Because I tried
Speaker 5: to up the bit rate. I thought that might help.
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's gonna work or not. Somebody said,
Speaker 5: I work for Verizon, Call me and I'll help you.
Speaker 5: How are you gonna help, dude, it's not a Verizon problem.
Speaker 5: You think I haven't had then Comcast or whoever it
Speaker 5: is out here like ten times and you just can't.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's no I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker 5: If you try to live stream, it doesn't have a
Speaker 5: consistent bit rate. It goes down and then it pops up,
Speaker 5: and then it drops back up, drops some meccap, drop
Speaker 5: some mecca and that's all it's ever been here. And
Speaker 5: I've I've had them out here I don't know how
Speaker 5: many times, and the workers don't even know what it is.
Speaker 5: So I can lower the bit rate and it still
Speaker 5: does all the same stuff. So David Flood want gifted
Speaker 5: out member ships demas gifting it out. Elder Leon elder
Speaker 5: lyon Leon hed he stringer, got some new ways, Hey
Speaker 5: he's stranger, got some new gimmicks. Got a bit of
Speaker 5: press up for you. Skipped frames for in two minutes,
Speaker 5: John Kel, do another goal? Do we already meet that goal? Okay,
Speaker 5: start another goal? How about I almost set this. I
Speaker 5: almost set this like super high magenta goal for three hours.
Speaker 5: That was a ten super chest for over fifty dollars.
Speaker 5: When I make like a thousand dollars on the stream.
Speaker 5: You're gonna get your next impression. I'm trying to get
Speaker 5: the started. We get somebody super chats rolling in, which
Speaker 5: is fine with me. Do another goal, okay, don John Kell,
Speaker 5: thank you so much. Jr. Hasbro five books. I'm looking
Speaker 5: forward to Esoteric Colly with part three. Are you gonna
Speaker 5: mention raising Kine especially directors cut. Yes, there's gonna be
Speaker 5: a diploment section and we're gonna be talking about raising Kine.
Speaker 5: We're gonna talk about the fury. We'll talk about what's
Speaker 5: that one with the due that kind of goes mind
Speaker 5: control crazy over prawn. We took notes on I forget
Speaker 5: the name of it, discord what's up? Shout out? Open
Speaker 5: up the task manager and check the performance. You don't
Speaker 5: about the task manager in YouTube studio, it just says
Speaker 5: stream health poor. The task manager in stream labs will
Speaker 5: just say skip frames detected forty six percent last two minutes.
Speaker 5: So it's always the same. John Kell, fifty bucks, thank
Speaker 5: you so much. Appreciate that. What percentage is the computer
Speaker 5: running it? I don't think it's a computer problem. Computer's
Speaker 5: running at like twenty thirty percent. It says see I
Speaker 5: can see the stream rate and it drops to three thousand,
Speaker 5: and it goes up to six thousand, and it'll stay
Speaker 5: at about six thousand and then it'll drop to three
Speaker 5: thousand and come back. And it's always done that ever
Speaker 5: since I've lived here, and it doesn't matter how many
Speaker 5: times people come out here. There is no known solution.
Speaker 5: So I mean, it'll go up to twelve thousand kilobites
Speaker 5: a second, then I'll say your string quality is good
Speaker 5: seven thousand, and then boom, it drops the three and
Speaker 5: then it comes back. So nobody knows what's up. We
Speaker 5: got over a thousand people, everybody, uh has piled up
Speaker 5: in it. Let's get Let's get it started. Let's get
Speaker 5: it started. Let's get it started. Antonios benderos.
Speaker 17: Hi Jay, good, good to you, You having a good
Speaker 17: start to you. Thanks for taking my queriod's random Yeah vaccine. Yeah,
Speaker 17: I'll try not be too week this time.
Speaker 16: But I got some new ways, got some new ways
Speaker 16: for yah.
Speaker 18: Yeah right, Jack, Jesus, excuse really sorry the bless from
Speaker 18: you forever and here. I was just wondering if you've
Speaker 18: read anywhere about any discussion about Adam and Eve in
Speaker 18: the sense of when overall and potentially metaphysics, but things
Speaker 18: about that.
Speaker 5: I had not I mean, are you referring to the soul?
Speaker 19: Yeah, yeah, potentially, Like.
Speaker 18: The way I said, it is definitely separate soul that
Speaker 18: Eve would have had, assuming that we all follow from
Speaker 18: Adam and Eve and that's how things would have been
Speaker 18: handed down to us thereafter. But you know, God breed
Speaker 18: life into Adam, and you know, perpetual life would have
Speaker 18: gone through that. But there was no specific sort of
Speaker 18: like mentioned as to when the soul comes to Eve,
Speaker 18: if it would have been inside Adam from the beginning
Speaker 18: or if as soon as she was created, because I.
Speaker 8: Guess I could ask you could beg to say.
Speaker 18: Like when does life actually begin even when it comes
Speaker 18: to you know about by bulls and things like that.
Speaker 18: So I'm just wondering if this, if it'd been any
Speaker 18: discussions on when she received her.
Speaker 5: I don't know about Eve, but I mean, Saint Maximus
Speaker 5: teaches that the soul is created at the moment of conception.
Speaker 5: But thank you for that magic, Mike Orthodox and Man
Speaker 5: Stripper A country to come up in here?
Speaker 2: Eh eh okay, hear, yeah? What's about a question about
Speaker 2: price up? And then I wanted to go where I
Speaker 2: disagree about salvation?
Speaker 20: So I know you take the presuppositional approach in terms
Speaker 20: of apologetic methodology, but you like, you know, you rely
Speaker 20: on Presbyterian reform guys that has been to gourgy Boston.
Speaker 2: So where do you disagree with them?
Speaker 5: And pretty so, where did transcendental arguments come from?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just trying to learn about it.
Speaker 5: So so who do you think was the first two
Speaker 5: positive transit arguments? You don't know? No, Okay, well they're
Speaker 5: in Aristotle.
Speaker 9: Okay.
Speaker 5: John Ascus refers to transit argument of the very beginning
Speaker 5: of founton Knowledge. Felis he uses transcendental argument. So there's
Speaker 5: nothing necessarily about transit augmentation that it makes it the
Speaker 5: property of the reformed. Furthermore, an argument stands on its own,
Speaker 5: and it doesn't really matter what group makes the argument, right,
Speaker 5: So do you know about the genetic fallacy?
Speaker 20: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, what's the genetic fallacy? What's the genetic it's like
Speaker 5: when the particular group? Yeah? Right, So what does that
Speaker 5: have to do with whether it's true or not? Hello?
Speaker 5: Are you there?
Speaker 8: Yo?
Speaker 20: In priest oppositional apologetics like their storting part of their
Speaker 20: methodology kind of relies upon tulip and total depravity and
Speaker 20: how there's no like neutral route, neutral ground and things
Speaker 20: like that.
Speaker 5: Well, there's plenty of philosophers who teach that the reality
Speaker 5: is not theory neutral. So are they all Calvinists? Uh no, Right,
Speaker 5: So there's nothing about theory neutrality. There's nothing about transit
Speaker 5: argumentation or any of that that necessitates Calvinism. And that's
Speaker 5: why I always argue that it's the.
Speaker 20: So okay, okay, So how do you understand? So I
Speaker 20: need to talk about salvation and orthodoxy? So how do
Speaker 20: you understand I've heard your lectures to you any how,
Speaker 20: you say that faith alone, justification by faith alone isn't
Speaker 20: true because the person when they come to Jesus Christ,
Speaker 20: they don't go through metaphysical change in themselves.
Speaker 12: Is that correct?
Speaker 5: That's part of it?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So how so let's say when that happens?
Speaker 20: Right, So, like, and how do you know, like how
Speaker 20: much how many how much work do you have to
Speaker 20: do to be like metaphysically go through a change and
Speaker 20: be justified in God's eyes?
Speaker 5: In your view, well, Christ's life is the paradigm model,
Speaker 5: and so there's always synergy between the human nature and
Speaker 5: the divine nature. And that's why, for example, all the
Speaker 5: early Church fathers and even the first generate baptism is
Speaker 5: a work. This necessary repentance is a work that's necessary.
Speaker 5: Jesus says that this is the work of God that
Speaker 5: you believe on Him whom he has sent. So faith
Speaker 5: in Christ is also we flesh it out like all
Speaker 5: of these works are necessary to be saying. Peter says,
Speaker 5: an act to repent and be baptized for the remission
Speaker 5: of sins. And we know he's talking about water baptism
Speaker 5: because they immediately do water baptism, so it's not a
Speaker 5: secret Calvinist regeneration baptism. It's actual water baptism. Titus three
Speaker 5: calls it the washing of regeneration. So all of those
Speaker 5: things are the beginning point of salvation. Salvation is a pross,
Speaker 5: one time thing. It's your whole life, and it's the
Speaker 5: escton ultimately.
Speaker 20: Sure, so let me just go back to the point
Speaker 20: you mentioned about the spiritual baptism, right, So when you
Speaker 20: read the Book of Acts and they get the tour
Speaker 20: this start of the book, they get the spirit. What
Speaker 20: is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They weren't
Speaker 20: physically baptized in water.
Speaker 2: There's no mention of that.
Speaker 5: So how does you have no idea what you're talking
Speaker 5: about if you're not read Acts too. I specifically started
Speaker 5: Acts two thirty people right after that, which is why
Speaker 5: I said, that's how we know they're talking about water baptism.
Speaker 5: Pentecost is not a spiritual baptism separate from something else
Speaker 5: that's the coming of the Holy Spirit and power. And
Speaker 5: when Peter preaches at Pentecost, what does he tell the
Speaker 5: people in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine.
Speaker 2: Envy baptized?
Speaker 5: Is that okay? And then what is what is he
Speaker 5: talking about?
Speaker 19: There?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 5: You're telling me that's not water baptism, even though they
Speaker 5: literally baptize the people in water right after that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know I do get that that is
Speaker 2: water baptism for you.
Speaker 20: Just said it's not water baptism though, No, No, I'm
Speaker 20: talking about earlier in the Acts chapter. I'm talking about
Speaker 20: the apostoms of Apostles himself, who water baptized the Apostles because.
Speaker 5: Beat boots in weeks that's what Jesus promised, and Acts
Speaker 5: becue me and John fourteen fifty sixteen.
Speaker 2: That they get water baptized.
Speaker 5: Well, they didn't have to be baptized because they're the
Speaker 5: beginning of the foundation stones of the church and Jesus
Speaker 5: tells them to baptize.
Speaker 19: Okay, fair point.
Speaker 5: And also water baptism didn't occur with anybody in the
Speaker 5: Old Covenant, and they're all saved in the same way.
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean that after this point, that's not the
Speaker 5: means by which regeneration occurs.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair point.
Speaker 20: Yeah, But I have another question about salivation buf faith alone. Right, So,
Speaker 20: like what is the position of works in your and
Speaker 20: your understanding? Like, like, for example, I'm talking about just
Speaker 20: the centification, right, is scientification necessary for justification? But if
Speaker 20: you say in works to be to be justified, I mean,
Speaker 20: I know you're talking you say that, you know, like
Speaker 20: coming to repent.
Speaker 5: The mistake is that you're you think of justification as
Speaker 5: a legal status and it's not. It's part of a
Speaker 5: that's part of the analogy. But in Romans four, when
Speaker 5: Paul cites Genesis fifteen, that's after Abraham has already been
Speaker 5: doing three chapters of good works. So Abraham should not
Speaker 5: have men justified quote unquote in Genesis fifteen. If you're
Speaker 5: reading of Romans for is correct see Romans for refutes
Speaker 5: the Calvinist interpretation. Do you understand what I mean by
Speaker 5: that argument?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 20: So like if you're so, how do you understand like
Speaker 20: to the Calvinistic Channe in Romans when he talks about
Speaker 20: you know you were justified and then he also just
Speaker 20: says that you know you were you were called justifies
Speaker 20: and then glorified. It's all like linked together, it is.
Speaker 5: But what you're missing as a Calvinist is that that's
Speaker 5: written to an actual, visible group of people in Rome,
Speaker 5: as a group of the predestined? Did Paul write in
Speaker 5: Roman Ephicus?
Speaker 2: I can't say it's it's both.
Speaker 5: No, it can be both, because how can he call
Speaker 5: the entire visible group the elect and the predestined because
Speaker 5: they're not.
Speaker 2: What it wouldn't apply to Christians today when he like and.
Speaker 5: The general those have to do with today? Just when
Speaker 5: he writes to the actual church in Ephesus and he
Speaker 5: calls them the predestine, who's he calling the predestine in
Speaker 5: the church writing about the Calvinist view? No, I mean
Speaker 5: the predestined are not the visible church, that's the elect only.
Speaker 2: From from your position.
Speaker 5: I mean Calvinism fails in terms of Christology. That's the
Speaker 5: starting point, because Calvinism begins with the idea of the
Speaker 5: divine decree and soteriology, and so it has the wrong
Speaker 5: order of theology. It has to begin with the Trinity
Speaker 5: and Christology and the in case. That's why you guys
Speaker 5: don't have the essence interistinction, you don't have the real presence.
Speaker 5: You're missing all of these things because you begin your
Speaker 5: your theology with steriology.
Speaker 20: So another question, how do you determine like when how
Speaker 20: to interpret in a legal in a legal understanding or not?
Speaker 20: Because you know you when when there are lots of salvation,
Speaker 20: salvation by faith a loan passages, you'll just say that
Speaker 20: it's here.
Speaker 5: There are no faith a loan passages. There are passages
Speaker 5: that say faith not were of law. And in the
Speaker 5: concept he's talking about Jewish law. But if you look
Speaker 5: at Galatians, Paul says, the only faith that counts as
Speaker 5: the one that works through love. So Paul is saying
Speaker 5: the same thing as James. It's you guys that have
Speaker 5: invented the idea of a purely fictional legal standing. That
Speaker 5: is your salvation that's what doesn't exist in the ancient
Speaker 5: or medieval world. And if you read modern even the
Speaker 5: conservative Protestant Reformation theologians, whether in the Anglican or in
Speaker 5: the Lutheran tradition, like Anglicans like Alstro McGrath or Lutherans
Speaker 5: like Haiko Oberman, they all point out how there were
Speaker 5: no nominalists in the ancient and medieval world until Aukham
Speaker 5: in other words, to call you righteous when you're in
Speaker 5: fact wicked and you're covered in these you know, imputational
Speaker 5: rags of righteouness, the cover or the hum of the rags,
Speaker 5: the righteous of Christ that covers your filthy rags and
Speaker 5: all this stuff that's only possible with nominalism. And nobody
Speaker 5: in the ancient medieval world was anomalist. So how do
Speaker 5: you get God being able to declare people in a
Speaker 5: legal status that they don't actually possess in reality?
Speaker 20: So okay, So then how do you understand the legal
Speaker 20: and the forensic language that does use in.
Speaker 5: Regardless based on what's actually there?
Speaker 12: What's actually what do you mean like you're.
Speaker 5: Actually made righteous? That's what it's called baptism or regeneration.
Speaker 5: The sacraments actually convey the grace.
Speaker 20: Okay, So so like, let's say the pious works that
Speaker 20: you do, do they contribute to your salvation and scientification?
Speaker 20: Or is it just the sacraments that you do in
Speaker 20: the Orthodox Church? Like let's say, when you participate in
Speaker 20: the sacraments right of the Orthodox Church, are you you're
Speaker 20: participating in the uncreated energy right of the.
Speaker 2: Correct So what about the.
Speaker 20: Let's say, the sacraments that exist, like you know that
Speaker 20: are done in other church or yes? Or what so
Speaker 20: the uncreated grise only exists in the Orthodox Church, that's your.
Speaker 5: Position, Yes, because it is the mystical body of Christ.
Speaker 5: So how come like these one Lord, one faith, one
Speaker 5: Baptist in one body. There's not twenty thousand, thirty thousand
Speaker 5: different ways.
Speaker 20: Why do you So why would like a Protestant a
Speaker 20: Catholic need the uncredited grace.
Speaker 5: Of That's this is something that anybody in any religion
Speaker 5: can say that they become a morally reformed person or
Speaker 5: they're better or I mean, I don't. That's all purely subjective.
Speaker 5: I know, I have no idea what you think spiritual
Speaker 5: growth is.
Speaker 20: I mean, okay, sure, but I'm talking about spiritual growth
Speaker 20: as in like you know, sinding less and doing.
Speaker 5: You know, being obedient to God. So now it's salvation
Speaker 5: by works. I thought you didn't believe in salvation my works.
Speaker 20: No, But I mean I think we're we're as Christians
Speaker 20: were there to conform to the image of Christ. Right, So, like,
Speaker 20: I'm not saying that we're doing these things to be saved.
Speaker 20: This is just a byproduct of like, you know, our faith,
Speaker 20: like in our faith is genuine. That's what we want
Speaker 20: to do, the righteous things that God wants us to do.
Speaker 20: So what do you think about that?
Speaker 5: Just one second?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 9: Like what what?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 20: Would like you know, why what makes it necessary like
Speaker 20: the uncreated and urge of Jesus or of the Orthodox Church?
Speaker 5: Because the creature can't save us a patient and divine
Speaker 5: life and immortality. But in moral reform. So ironically, what
Speaker 5: you're talking about is the proof of the faith is
Speaker 5: the very thing that you, as a Calvinist, supposedly shouldn't
Speaker 5: believe in. We're moving on, TJ. What's up, man? Try
Speaker 5: to change the bit rate. Maybe that'll help with whatever's
Speaker 5: going on.
Speaker 21: Yeah, O Jay, So I recently left Printocostalism and I've
Speaker 21: just become a catechumen.
Speaker 2: I just had a few questions, if that's okay.
Speaker 21: So I came into Orthodoxy based purely mainly like intellectually
Speaker 21: and just through like reading history, and I'm lot and
Speaker 21: I just wanted to know how to navigate, you know,
Speaker 21: going from the vital reality and really taking part in
Speaker 21: the you know, right.
Speaker 5: Well, that's so, that's that's right. So it's not Q
Speaker 5: and A. I'm not trying to be rude too, it's
Speaker 5: not you know, like catechumen days. So that's a question
Speaker 5: for you and your spiritual father, going deeper into your
Speaker 5: prayer life and all that, you should ask him. That
Speaker 5: ash not trying to be rude.
Speaker 7: Uh hey, can you hear me?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Sweet?
Speaker 22: So last when I was on we started talking about
Speaker 22: uh sol scriptura. Uh, I'm coming out of Protestantism and
Speaker 22: so I've had a couple of things to think about.
Speaker 22: And the question that you posed last time was how
Speaker 22: do I know as a like, sure, not as a
Speaker 22: Protestant anymore, but when I was a Protestant, how would
Speaker 22: I know that? Matthew wrote Matthew, and I would I
Speaker 22: was thinking last night, I was like, well, can a
Speaker 22: Protestants say that by the evidence of scholarly opinion that
Speaker 22: we can see that Matthew wrote Mathew, which I guess
Speaker 22: those scholars were just they would have to defer to
Speaker 22: the church anyway.
Speaker 5: So the evidence is going to be based on the
Speaker 5: historical transmission, preservation, and self knowledge that the church in
Speaker 5: history has. That's the point. So it's missing the point
Speaker 5: to say, oh, well, I can go to the consensus
Speaker 5: of scholars. And by the way, there's tons of liberal
Speaker 5: scholars who probably don't believe that, So how is that
Speaker 5: going to help anybody figure out canonicity? Apistolic authorship is
Speaker 5: only one of the elements that would go into why
Speaker 5: Matthew's Gospel be included. There'd be other things too, like
Speaker 5: was this gospel read in the Apostolic sees, was it
Speaker 5: read in the majority of the sees throughout the empire?
Speaker 5: Was it read in electionaries which are liturgical readings and
Speaker 5: daily readings in the churches. All of these would be
Speaker 5: elements as to how and why the Church would or
Speaker 5: would not have included various books within the Bible. And
Speaker 5: the point is that there's no fallible means to base
Speaker 5: the Bible on without ending up with a fallible collection,
Speaker 5: and thus the Bible becoming fallible. So every president who
Speaker 5: wants an inerrant infallible Bible is just continuing to spin
Speaker 5: the hamster wheel, missing the point that the argument is
Speaker 5: not just oh, you need a church to tell you
Speaker 5: the canon. The argument is that you cannot actually get
Speaker 5: the autograph of the ones that Paul wrote, the ones
Speaker 5: that Matthew wrote, without assuming that the church within history,
Speaker 5: after the death of the Apostles for centuries accurately preserved
Speaker 5: copied the Bible.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's like you said before that like what is
Speaker 2: the grid to choose?
Speaker 12: Also what scholar to follow?
Speaker 22: So if you're a Protestant, since you don't have really
Speaker 22: apistemological kind of lens to point to, like, oh, well,
Speaker 22: I have an inbound source because you know, Sproul says
Speaker 22: the dumb axiom of fallible collection of infallible book. I
Speaker 22: have to sit there and claim, well, I guess it's
Speaker 22: just fallible means that get me my infallible books.
Speaker 5: That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm saying. The Protestant would have to
Speaker 2: sit there, and if they.
Speaker 12: Were honest with themselves, they would say, okay, I received.
Speaker 2: My books, my sixty six books.
Speaker 22: The Protestant canon by fallible means, by the means of
Speaker 22: the scholars that I pick the history that I.
Speaker 5: Pick, right, So it's a non sequit or to then
Speaker 5: say that if the Bible is based on that, then
Speaker 5: it can't be infallible.
Speaker 12: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's just chaos. Okay, that's the question
Speaker 2: I had.
Speaker 4: Thanks Man, good Hill, old Gunhild, Gunhild.
Speaker 9: Are you there?
Speaker 2: Let me.
Speaker 5: You have to turn your mic on. Man, I don't like,
Speaker 5: I don't know where you guys as nobody used to
Speaker 5: a space.
Speaker 2: And are Hey, Jake, I have a question.
Speaker 23: I want so I want to be Orthodox, but I
Speaker 23: have questions about rebaptism and and just kind of rigorism
Speaker 23: in general rocre generally. Uh you know they I know,
Speaker 23: I know it's a pejorative to call it corrective baptism.
Speaker 23: But if I came from a Roman Catholic background and
Speaker 23: they want to do that, what are the consequences of that?
Speaker 2: And do you find it?
Speaker 5: Why would there be consequences? What do you mean why
Speaker 5: would you not just submit to what your elders are
Speaker 5: telling you? What do you mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I guess that's my question. So I should
Speaker 2: just do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this is yeah, and it's not it's not
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just
Speaker 5: it's not catechumen, ethic unite. It's debate night. But yeah,
Speaker 5: just submit to your elders. Cornelius. What's up, Elder ten dollars.
Speaker 5: I learned a lot about orthodoxally the past few months
Speaker 5: lurking in your book recommendations. Thank you, thank you, man.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Jay.
Speaker 5: I've been remember hold on, I've been remember your website.
Speaker 5: Mister Anderson three dollars tried to watch the full video
Speaker 5: on history of the Left, and it brought me to
Speaker 5: the YouTube it says I need to be a member. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I realized that after I started making the YouTube lectures
Speaker 5: Members video that the people who are on the website
Speaker 5: are not going to get that. You still have all
Speaker 5: the audio, and I've only done it to five videos,
Speaker 5: so you're not I mean, it's just me talking anyway,
Speaker 5: so you might as well just listen to the audio.
Speaker 5: But I'm gonna have to figure out how to do that.
Speaker 5: I guess I'm about to have to make a copy.
Speaker 5: Anytime I move a video from YouTube private to members
Speaker 5: I'll have to make a copy for drought boxing and
Speaker 5: for the website. What's up, man, Yes, sir, you.
Speaker 24: Have criticized the pope for kissing the Quran, I think
Speaker 24: for the second.
Speaker 5: Yet I've gone way deeper than that. I think that's
Speaker 5: pretty good. I know, I know, I know, mild compared
Speaker 5: to a lot of the other criticisms.
Speaker 20: I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 24: But what I wanted to say. I saw a video
Speaker 24: on YouTube of Patriarch Carell who was in a children hospital.
Speaker 24: It's all on Russian, but he was in the children's
Speaker 24: hospital and said I translated into English. He said, he said, therefore,
Speaker 24: pray with all your heart and ask the Lord for help.
Speaker 2: I know that both Christians and Muslims are here.
Speaker 24: Each one addresses the same God, the Creator, and response
Speaker 24: to this we receive real divine help.
Speaker 5: I don't have a problem saying that. I don't have
Speaker 5: a problem saying he can get things wrong. And do
Speaker 5: you think the Orthodox system of theology is the same
Speaker 5: as the Roman Catholic system.
Speaker 24: So for clarification, I'm Serbian Orthodox, I'm not Catholic.
Speaker 5: Okay, so what's the point.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a problem with with this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just I just agreed that it's wrong.
Speaker 8: So so you did you agree with him or do you?
Speaker 5: Of course I don't agree with that. I just said
Speaker 5: he can be.
Speaker 2: Wrong, Okay, Okay.
Speaker 24: Don't you think it should be addressed by other patriarchs like.
Speaker 2: Porphylia from Serbia?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know, I think him, but I would
Speaker 5: imagine it ought to.
Speaker 2: Be m hmm. It's seven years old. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you believe me of what I called it.
Speaker 5: I don't know that. I don't know Russian, but like
Speaker 5: either way, whether it's translated accurately or not, Like, yes,
Speaker 5: I'm sure there's a humanist tendencies like Hilary and Alfia.
Speaker 5: He had a humanist tendency, so I'm sure he said
Speaker 5: a lot of wrong things too, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
Speaker 24: So the argument from you is that the patriarch doesn't
Speaker 24: isn't available like Catholic streame for the pope, and therefore
Speaker 24: if he says something wrong, it doesn't destroy Althodo.
Speaker 2: Did I get Detroit? Yeah?
Speaker 5: The whole church is not built on the faith of
Speaker 5: the guy in Rome m h. Whereas Vatican, Vatican One,
Speaker 5: nor any of them, but in One builds everything on
Speaker 5: what is happening with Francis.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, mm hm m hm m.
Speaker 5: That's said, thank you, sure, fair question, he roes. What's up. No,
Speaker 5: I don't accept that Islam is a Brahmic. I don't
Speaker 5: believe that at all. I mean, I made this argument
Speaker 5: hundreds of times. What's up? He's having hard time connecting?
Speaker 12: Can you hear me?
Speaker 25: I just wanted to ask. I was reading something Beluther
Speaker 25: that I don't know if it's true or not. They
Speaker 25: it's a patron that was connected or a member of
Speaker 25: the rules a Crucians.
Speaker 5: As possible. I know that the second generation Lutherans like
Speaker 5: Johann Andre are believed to be some of the early
Speaker 5: founders of the Rosicrucian order, and Luther did have a
Speaker 5: lot of support from the German princes. That was part
Speaker 5: of the reason why he was successful. I don't think
Speaker 5: he could have been successful without that state support in
Speaker 5: terms of Germany and the Reformation. But later Lutherans were
Speaker 5: for sure into Roschritianism. But I would not be surprised
Speaker 5: that there wasn't a patron that was as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just I was just wondering.
Speaker 25: I know, I noticed he used a symbol like a
Speaker 25: ros Acrucion symbols as a kind of signatory on documents.
Speaker 5: Well, that might have been his choice, though prior to
Speaker 5: the order of the rosy cross using it, it's not.
Speaker 5: I mean, you can't base the argument just on the symbol,
Speaker 5: because you know, there's a rose cross that I'm sure
Speaker 5: was used in Catholic churches prior to that, it would
Speaker 5: have been rosicrution necessarily. But I think when if you
Speaker 5: look up the character Johann andre it does specifically become
Speaker 5: a Rosicrucian symbol at that point. And Luther had other
Speaker 5: esoteric influences. He was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which
Speaker 5: is a kind of a Neoplatonic type text. Luther was
Speaker 5: influenced by nominalism as well as Neoplatonism, so there's a
Speaker 5: lot of possibilities there. But the book to read on
Speaker 5: this is Dame Francis yates book Rosicrucian Enlightenment, where she
Speaker 5: goes into quite a bit of detail about Johann andre As,
Speaker 5: the potential author of the Rosicrucian Manifesto. Time to Crusade
Speaker 5: is a stream doing decent. Okay, now, maybe it's better
Speaker 5: this way. What's up, man, I'm you Union Jose Biden.
Speaker 5: Five dollars. You said Maximus taught the soul has created
Speaker 5: an inception. I heard John Damascus teaches that we're generated
Speaker 5: from Adam and all the fathers, and all of humanity
Speaker 5: from our fathers and all humanities created within our atom.
Speaker 5: Our souls are generated, not created. No, that's not true.
Speaker 5: I mean there is. Maybe John Damascus was a Traducian,
Speaker 5: but the same Maximus Confessor is not a Traducian. So
Speaker 5: I'm not aware of the Orthodox Church holding to introductionism.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I could be wrong, and I don't
Speaker 5: recall off the top of my head John mask is
Speaker 5: saying that. But Maximus is very clear in the ambiguity
Speaker 5: that the soul is created at conception Elias by two dollars?
Speaker 5: Will you cover the released MLK files now? Probably not
Speaker 5: a freem.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 26: Can you hear me?
Speaker 27: Yeah?
Speaker 28: Can you hear me?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Hello?
Speaker 5: Yeah? What's up?
Speaker 2: Hello?
Speaker 5: Yes, I can hear you can hear me? King anime?
Speaker 5: I heard diary is autistic. I don't think I am.
Speaker 5: I think seems like people with thetism have a hard
Speaker 5: time with comedy and they can't tell when people are joking,
Speaker 5: but probably everybody to a degree has those of the tism.
Speaker 5: What's up?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 5: He got on you. You're raising your hand, I'm you.
Speaker 2: Oh hello? Oh?
Speaker 29: So yeah.
Speaker 8: I asked some questions about the Sabbath.
Speaker 2: So I heard, uh, I'm pretty.
Speaker 8: Sure you know sab simonies.
Speaker 2: I think that's just not He was on first and Fleet.
Speaker 30: So the way he described the Sabbath I think was
Speaker 30: I didn't find it satisfaction because.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know what. I don't know what
Speaker 5: he argued about the Sabbath. What's the question, So do
Speaker 5: you think.
Speaker 8: Christians do have to keep the Sabbath the way it
Speaker 8: says in the Fourth Commandment.
Speaker 5: The way that it's kept is the way that the
Speaker 5: New Testament the Apostles keep it, which is the first
Speaker 5: day of the week is the day of the Lord
Speaker 5: where the Church comes together and celebrates the liturgy. In
Speaker 5: the Orthodox Church the seventh Day, the seventh Day Sabbath
Speaker 5: is still kept on in the vesper's service. It's still
Speaker 5: honored on Saturday. But no, as Hebrews four says, the
Speaker 5: true Sabbath has been brought to us in the person
Speaker 5: of Christ. So there's a superiority now to the true Sabbath,
Speaker 5: which is the Christian liturgical service.
Speaker 8: So would you consider that to be in a tipped
Speaker 8: at changing.
Speaker 5: Godswel No, Because Jesus is the one that gave the law.
Speaker 5: He is God. He's the one that decides and determines
Speaker 5: how it's kept and how it's interpreted.
Speaker 8: So but when he, like, when did he ever say
Speaker 8: that Jesus change his Sabbath.
Speaker 5: Hebrews four explains that when Jesus came, he brought at
Speaker 5: his first advent the fulfillment and the meaning of the
Speaker 5: creation day Sabbath. Thus, the day of his resurrection is
Speaker 5: the Sabbath, according to Hebrews four. And that's why the
Speaker 5: Church in the Book of Acts and John in the
Speaker 5: Book of Revelations says, I was in the spirit on
Speaker 5: the Lord's Day. That's the day of his resurrection. In
Speaker 5: the Book of Acts, that's when the church meets to
Speaker 5: have the Divine Liturgy, the Church service. That's why it's Sunday, okay.
Speaker 8: And you know, because I was confused on like what
Speaker 8: people were saying about. They think because based.
Speaker 30: On in Genesis when it said the evening in the morning,
Speaker 30: he didn't say that at the end of the seven days.
Speaker 8: So people try to.
Speaker 30: Say that that's their basically their argument for thinking that
Speaker 30: we're in Gode now, which I thought to be very
Speaker 30: confusing because I.
Speaker 2: Don't really get that.
Speaker 5: Have you not read have you read Hebrews?
Speaker 30: I see the verse that Sam pointed out, So I'm
Speaker 30: pretty sure the verse you're referring to.
Speaker 5: I just think all of chapter four is about the
Speaker 5: Sabbath being brought at Christ's first Advent. Okay, So all
Speaker 5: of these Jewish ceremonies, they symbolize the work and life
Speaker 5: of Christ and the reality that he brings at the
Speaker 5: first Advent.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 8: And what do you think about the theocracies?
Speaker 30: Do you think Christians should try to establish a theocracy
Speaker 30: like in the United States now?
Speaker 5: I think the goal is to convert people and then
Speaker 5: it will naturally tend towards a monarchy or an imperium
Speaker 5: or theocracy. So theocracy is the biblical form of government.
Speaker 5: That's why the Orthodox Church throughout two thousand years has
Speaker 5: always had monarchical or imperial forms of government. But it's
Speaker 5: not our first and foremost duty to set up a theocracy.
Speaker 5: So that's something that happens down the line as people
Speaker 5: convert when you have a majority Christian Orthodox society clone card.
Speaker 5: All right, he dropped off Vesper vesper Lend, vesper Lend.
Speaker 5: When you're gonna debate paul Ogia, all of these people
Speaker 5: can come into the chat like, I'm not chasing down
Speaker 5: people with like a thousand subscribers and all these gurgus,
Speaker 5: you guys, if they won't come to debate, then no,
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna chase down. I have no idea who
Speaker 5: Paulogia is. If they if they want to come debate,
Speaker 5: here's the link when you go and debate Arian Heretics
Speaker 5: six y nine four three two on YouTube. He's got
Speaker 5: feather subscribers, he's token smack. That's what the link is for.
Speaker 5: Dog Vesper what's up? You get to turn your mic on?
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 5: Moving on, Danny? Is it Danny?
Speaker 2: Danny?
Speaker 5: Donnie Akula. It's open for him. If you want to
Speaker 5: request to speak, I'll bring you on. It's open debate.
Speaker 5: We're looking for people who would like to debate. Pologia
Speaker 5: has a million subs. Okay, well I've never heard of Pologia.
Speaker 5: I have no idea who it is. Selmoxis spends fifty bucks.
Speaker 5: Can you walk us through the documents from Trello and
Speaker 5: the Seventh Council affirmed in terms of canon. Okay, so
Speaker 5: Canon eighty five of the Apostolic Canons is mentioned, it's
Speaker 5: the Councils of Carthage that Trollo says specifically for the canon,
Speaker 5: Canon eighty five is relevant because it's a very early
Speaker 5: attestation in the Apostolic Canons to the Deutero canon being
Speaker 5: part of the Bible. And so if you have the
Speaker 5: or the oars Augomatic theology Palmazonski, you don't even need
Speaker 5: me to walk you through it. Maybe I should make
Speaker 5: a video on it, because I mean he talks about
Speaker 5: it within the first like thirty pages. And so there's
Speaker 5: a whole note on the Epistolic Canons and Canon thirty five.
Speaker 5: But Canon thirty five doesn't mention everything that's in our canon.
Speaker 5: And that's because the Seventh Acumunical Council winner to firms Trello.
Speaker 5: Trello specifically says, we are going with the Carthaginian canon,
Speaker 5: which includes all the dudercononical texts. I'm mute, Danny, or
Speaker 5: you want do you want to talk?
Speaker 4: Or what something?
Speaker 5: Man thank you guys for all the super chants. Appreciate it.
Speaker 5: You guys are being generous tonight, Donnie. I'm all right, whatever,
Speaker 5: don't I mute? Then Bible shelf?
Speaker 2: Hi, can you hear me?
Speaker 9: Uh huh?
Speaker 31: So I just wanted to ask, I guess for like
Speaker 31: advice for someone who's a lost and it's.
Speaker 12: Currently studying tag.
Speaker 31: But I'm kind of just feeling like overwhelmed by all
Speaker 31: the objections and I would I attend church, but I
Speaker 31: guess I'm kind of like agnostic, and I just.
Speaker 12: Feel like it requires such a high.
Speaker 31: Level of philosophical knowledge and all the objections are like
Speaker 31: so complex that's kind of hard to know what's true.
Speaker 31: And I'm just in this like state of like not
Speaker 31: knowing or like uncertainty. But then I have Christians saying, oh, well,
Speaker 31: if you die upon disbelief for your you're probably gonna
Speaker 31: go to.
Speaker 5: Help, so you know, I mean, I think the point
Speaker 5: is that you join the Orthodox Church and become a
Speaker 5: regular member, and you don't rest on the academic rational
Speaker 5: side of stuff. It's not that the rational academic stuff
Speaker 5: is wrong or bad, but it can't all rest on that.
Speaker 5: That's like a sign pointer to the church. Yah kub,
Speaker 5: what's up? Yah kub? His name is Jacob, but I'm
Speaker 5: calling him yah kub.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up? What's up? Yep? Yeah, I followed you
Speaker 2: for a long time. I really like the content, and
Speaker 2: I've been reading. I've been reading more some Dogma.
Speaker 14: I'm like six pages in and he's talking about the
Speaker 14: early Christian mysteries, and I just wanted to know what
Speaker 14: exactly you would say about the statements that he's giving.
Speaker 2: So he will give like four hands, you.
Speaker 14: Profane, or that giving the Christian mysteries is start putting
Speaker 14: a sword into the hands of a child, these kinds
Speaker 14: and things.
Speaker 5: I mean, he has a whole chapter where he talks
Speaker 5: about that real Christianity is Neoplatonism, basically affirms originism. He says,
Speaker 5: that's what the Trinity really is. So no, we don't
Speaker 5: listen to Albert Pike and Neoplatonism for what Christianity is.
Speaker 14: I mean, I mean, sorry, sorry, but he says, for example, Cyril,
Speaker 14: all right, he'll say the Lord explained in private his parables.
Speaker 5: That does mean what ye what he says, He's just
Speaker 5: referring to the Gnostic claim that true Christianity is a
Speaker 5: hidden message. But if you read here in as in
Speaker 5: book three and four against Heresies, and as says that
Speaker 5: there's nothing hidden in Christianity. It's all public.
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 14: No, it's just been very, very crazy because you gave
Speaker 14: like thirteen thirteen quotes by different church fatherst it all
Speaker 14: said that they for example, you have Totullian saying that, yeah, okay,
Speaker 14: if it makes sense, makes sense.
Speaker 5: So the saying why go ahead, What's what are the
Speaker 5: other quotes about?
Speaker 2: So it's like thirteen.
Speaker 14: First he starts off with Clements not initiated to Trollanto.
Speaker 14: Then he goes to Titullian, who's a heretic, as.
Speaker 5: He said, Then Clement is a heretic too, but go ahead,
Speaker 5: the heretic too.
Speaker 14: Then as I don't know how to say his name, sorry,
Speaker 14: I'm uh, he says, these mysteries the church now communicates
Speaker 14: to him who has passed through the introductory degree. They
Speaker 14: are not explained to the gentiles at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is just all nonsense. Like when you join
Speaker 5: the Orthodox Church, there's no secret inner gnostic teaching that
Speaker 5: the Orthodox Church passes on to the Gnostic inner elite.
Speaker 5: That's why the whole purpose of rols and dogma. Is
Speaker 5: that Albert probably is saying, you, you know what people
Speaker 5: call Christianity and the Orthodox Churches or the Catholic Church,
Speaker 5: that's not real Christianity. That's for the profane. I have
Speaker 5: the real secrets. That's just a sleight of hand trick.
Speaker 27: Oh yeah, absolutely, it's social pride.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I'm a Christian tioper.
Speaker 5: So what's what's the quest?
Speaker 14: I don't understand what I'm just I'm just confused because
Speaker 14: I'm trying to find out how to how to interpret
Speaker 14: these quotes.
Speaker 2: But these early church fathers.
Speaker 14: As for example, you will have Saint Basil. He's saying,
Speaker 14: this is what the initiated. I'm not permitted to contemplate
Speaker 14: at the mysteries.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is part of the Orthodox tradition
Speaker 5: that you don't speak of the mysteries to those outside
Speaker 5: because they don't understand it, they're not going to believe it.
Speaker 5: And that's why in the Orthodox Church it is called mystagogy.
Speaker 5: It is a mystical teaching. But mysteries does not mean
Speaker 5: Albert Pike's ancient pagan mysteries. It means the mysteries of
Speaker 5: the Christian revelation, which are not always forever hidden. They
Speaker 5: are mysteries that are revealed to the initiated. That's why
Speaker 5: baptism is called the right of initiation in Christianity. Let
Speaker 5: me give you another example. When you're baptized, you're called
Speaker 5: illumined or enlightened. That doesn't mean you're an enlightenment member
Speaker 5: of the Illuminati because you're baptized.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 14: I didn't know about the mysteries not being talked about openly.
Speaker 2: In that way.
Speaker 5: Well, in the Early Church and the liturgy, for example,
Speaker 5: it says, you know, I will not when we do
Speaker 5: the communion prayer, we say I will not speak of
Speaker 5: thy mysteries to thine enemy. And the church says in
Speaker 5: the liturgy, let the catechumans depart, let no catechumens remain.
Speaker 5: That's because in the Early Church there was persecution and
Speaker 5: the Empire would send spies into the churches and lie
Speaker 5: about them and say, oh, they're actually engaging in human sacrifice.
Speaker 5: And if you spoke about the mysteries outside the church,
Speaker 5: you could potentially have the church uh busted up because
Speaker 5: they're in the catacombs.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he mentions this too. Yeah.
Speaker 5: He mentions that, Yeah, okay, but that doesn't prove Albert
Speaker 5: Pike's secret gnostic teaching of true Christianity. In the premac Lodges, you.
Speaker 14: Want to hear something funny, right right right after he
Speaker 14: says this, he goes over the assasination of Charms o'haram
Speaker 14: and he says, literally he says it.
Speaker 27: Then he says, the edaculation at his grave was repeated
Speaker 27: three times.
Speaker 5: So what, I don't know what you're saying.
Speaker 14: Theulation echaculation of who of the three of the three
Speaker 14: Masons that were trying to resurrect him.
Speaker 5: I didn't know he said that. That's funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No one talked about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's interesting. I've never found anybody
Speaker 5: until I read that chapter on what he thinks Christianity
Speaker 5: really is in terms of the trinity that he says,
Speaker 5: it's just neoplatonism. I've never heard anybody talk about that either.
Speaker 4: Let's let me pull up the Appstot Cannons and it's
Speaker 4: eighty five.
Speaker 2: Hello, yes, sir, Yeah, I just want to ask you.
Speaker 32: So I used to be a Catholic, but I've since
Speaker 32: become an agnostic, So I want to ask you, what's
Speaker 32: the basis for creashu ex lehilo.
Speaker 5: Well, the only basis is that it's divine revelation. And
Speaker 5: I mean, you could make some philosophical arguments about the
Speaker 5: need for the philosophy of time itself requiring a beginning, middle,
Speaker 5: and an end for meaning. That would be kind of
Speaker 5: a more roundabout transcendental argument, because if everything is just
Speaker 5: say eternal return, or if everything is pure it just
Speaker 5: caustant cyclical return, then it would be very difficult to
Speaker 5: have differentiation, succession, change, et cetera. Everything would be an
Speaker 5: eternal in eternal stasis. So those are some things that
Speaker 5: could point to the need philosophically for a beginning, but
Speaker 5: not necessarily x neilo. Xnilo is a doctrine that's based
Speaker 5: on divine revelation.
Speaker 32: Okay, so I would have posit if I would have
Speaker 32: posit that there's literally creation itself, but there was now
Speaker 32: beginning and new end.
Speaker 5: So that's what I just said. So, if everything is
Speaker 5: at any if everything is an eternal return, what's the
Speaker 5: basis for beginning, middle, and end, which is how all
Speaker 5: human communication, sentence structure language works. If you don't have beginning, middle,
Speaker 5: and end, how do you have communication?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's what you're alluding to.
Speaker 27: I suppose it's it's divinely audience.
Speaker 32: It's it just came into being.
Speaker 5: Or did you hear anything of what I said? So
Speaker 5: you're not going to answer anything that I said. You're
Speaker 5: going to go back to stating what the problem is?
Speaker 2: Okay, what what? What did you say? Can you refrase it?
Speaker 5: So I took you to say that if there's not
Speaker 5: x nilo, then everything is just eternal, right, the created
Speaker 5: order or this world, it's all just eternal, right, So
Speaker 5: there's not beginning, there's not beginning, middle.
Speaker 26: And end.
Speaker 5: Everything is just an eternal return or an oral burrows
Speaker 5: ever eating itself right yep? Okay, Well, if there's not beginning, middle,
Speaker 5: and end, then sentences aren't possible because sentences and language
Speaker 5: universally in the human domain require beginning, middle, and end.
Speaker 5: So that suggests to me that the way that humans
Speaker 5: are constituted and experienced time is as a beginning, middle,
Speaker 5: and end. But that would be illusory if there's no
Speaker 5: such thing as beginning, middle, and end. So you're collapsing
Speaker 5: time into eternity, and that would make knowledge and communication impossible.
Speaker 2: But why would it be impossible because.
Speaker 5: Of what I just said. Did you not hear anything
Speaker 5: I said, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 32: But before the sentence they were silence, right, and before
Speaker 32: silence there was a sentence preceding that.
Speaker 5: So before and after then that's not eternal return, that's time.
Speaker 5: What you said is eternally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, e tanty in time.
Speaker 32: So I know it's a bit of a paradox, but
Speaker 32: the continues.
Speaker 5: Oh so you're allowed to have well, you're allowed paradoxes
Speaker 5: by creation. Next, Neilo is crazy. All right, you're not
Speaker 5: You're not even listening, so we're moving on. Uh, let's
Speaker 5: see Ben m.
Speaker 33: Okay, Okay, hello, yep, hey Jay, you're going to question
Speaker 33: about Orthodox Church history.
Speaker 5: Okay, in the history.
Speaker 12: Do you know in the history when.
Speaker 34: In the history of the Orthodox Church was the advent
Speaker 34: of choosing saint names among laity?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 34: I'm assuming that was probably the result of people having
Speaker 34: names that like diverged from biblical names, and I wonder
Speaker 34: if that would be constitute an evolution on the practice
Speaker 34: of the church tradition.
Speaker 5: Well, in the old estimate you have people being given
Speaker 5: new names. For example, Abram becomes Abraham. Can you mute
Speaker 5: for a second one. Yep, all right, so Sarah Sarah,
Speaker 5: I becomes Sarah. So the basis is in the mind
Speaker 5: of I'm sure the early Christians, the Bible and divine
Speaker 5: revelation and the history of the Hebrews. I don't think
Speaker 5: it was just willy nearly done. There's plenty of saints
Speaker 5: in the early Church who have pagan names who become saints.
Speaker 5: So I don't think there was any idea that if
Speaker 5: you had a pagan name you had to change it
Speaker 5: necessarily because you were a Christian. It had to do
Speaker 5: with the idea of patron saints and saints interceding, which
Speaker 5: is very early in the tradition of the Church. But
Speaker 5: just because the tradition emerges as universal eventually, that doesn't
Speaker 5: that doesn't prove doctrinal development, because we don't have a
Speaker 5: problem with little tea traditions happening over time. And obviously
Speaker 5: it's quite natural that if there's going to be a
Speaker 5: saint who dies in the fifth, sixth, seventh century, they're
Speaker 5: not going to be saints in the first, second, or
Speaker 5: third century because they don't exist yet. That's not development
Speaker 5: of doctrine. That's the application of the basics of dogma
Speaker 5: to specific situations. So, for example, canon law, if you
Speaker 5: see up on the screen, this is the Apostolic canons,
Speaker 5: and these are ideas and rules about church law that
Speaker 5: have some kind of flexibility over time. But that flexibility
Speaker 5: over time does not translate into doctrinal development. It's just
Speaker 5: simply the Church using the static, unchanging principles of theology
Speaker 5: and applying them to the needs of the time or
Speaker 5: in specific locations.
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha, thanks, Yeah, it's actually.
Speaker 5: A really good question. Also, people should keep in mind
Speaker 5: that when we look at the first, second, third, fourth
Speaker 5: century of the Church, there's a lot of fighting that
Speaker 5: we have, but there's also a lot of things we
Speaker 5: don't know, and so a lot of things are in
Speaker 5: a sense shrouded and silence in certain areas. You know,
Speaker 5: there's places where Christianity went and we don't know what
Speaker 5: happened to Christianity in that region. There's churches and nations
Speaker 5: even that don't exist anymore. So a lot of these
Speaker 5: things we can't just go like look up and see.
Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot when it comes to like
Speaker 5: ancient textual analysis or ancient archaeology at you know, Christian
Speaker 5: sites or catacombs. There's a level of guesswork that scholars
Speaker 5: engage in because we don't know everything. Now, that doesn't
Speaker 5: mean we know nothing. I'm just saying that there's a
Speaker 5: lot we don't know. There's a lot we do know,
Speaker 5: but also a lot that we don't know. Jacob. Now, guys,
Speaker 5: we're looking for people that disagree. I don't mind taking
Speaker 5: all the FAQs and all this stuff, but I look
Speaker 5: for people that disagree. If you do, you go to
Speaker 5: the headline what's up, Jacob, George Apocalypse Rising twenty bucks.
Speaker 5: Happy to see you still debating on the smooth Brains.
Speaker 5: Keep it up, Jay. Also, I believe Bankers on the
Speaker 5: Dance Floor is your greatest work. Hey, you're in the minority.
Speaker 5: There are not many people seem to really. I think
Speaker 5: that's a classic cringe core work. I wish it would
Speaker 5: have gotten more exposure. It seems like people would have
Speaker 5: really liked that one. But Dyersburg, Tennessee vols fan three
Speaker 5: dollars thank you for exposing Bertrand Russell. In the recent
Speaker 5: segment on Lord Voldemore, the mainstream media does not ever
Speaker 5: mention the dark side and portrays him as this pacist intellectual. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's the cover that he had. He had the cover
Speaker 5: of being this democratic, pacifist intellectual, but he's a con
Speaker 5: seething hatred for humanity exactly intrinsic, in distinctive. Ten dollars
Speaker 5: brought U you have shop mind? I need a haircut.
Speaker 5: I actually almost got a haircut today, but we just
Speaker 5: didn't have time. And I'm eager to get a haircut.
Speaker 5: That's why I keep wearing hats, because I'm going my
Speaker 5: haircut yet. So as soon as I have time, I
Speaker 5: promise you I'll get a haircut. Y'all keep sending them
Speaker 5: super chats, I'll have money to go to head on
Speaker 5: over to superclips or supercuts or fantastic SAMs or whatever
Speaker 5: it is. Inquiry or five dollars? What are the questions
Speaker 5: that you're Protestant or Catholic priests weren't able to answer?
Speaker 5: I think I mentioned previously this question about the Protestants.
Speaker 5: I read a lot of Augustine, I wrote a lot
Speaker 5: of Cyprian. I was taking classes from Protestant professors. They
Speaker 5: couldn't answer my questions. From City of God, I read
Speaker 5: the entire City of God. Of course, the Protestant professors
Speaker 5: had never read it. So I had all this quote
Speaker 5: mine from the City of God. And then I read
Speaker 5: the anti Pelagian Antidonatus works and they couldn't answer any
Speaker 5: of those either. They had never read those works.
Speaker 12: And so.
Speaker 5: The Catholic priests, I mean I over the years talked
Speaker 5: a lot of Catholic priests Novasorto priests, SSPX priest said
Speaker 5: of a conscious priests, and I mean you could probably
Speaker 5: the questions that they couldn't answer are all the ones
Speaker 5: that you see me posing to the Roman Catholics all
Speaker 5: the time. Jojo one night and you ran from a baby? Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: I ran because there was a baby in the background.
Speaker 5: Totally m l k z d k.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 5: Here we go.
Speaker 35: Go ahead, Hey, Jay, thank you for the species that
Speaker 35: you're hosting. My question is I'm an Orthodox Christian myself.
Speaker 5: And are you or are you Oriental Orthox.
Speaker 2: I'm an Oriental Orthodox.
Speaker 5: Christ You're not Orthodox in the sense that we are
Speaker 5: Eastern Orthodox.
Speaker 2: I have not, yeah, but I have really benefited both from.
Speaker 35: Eastern Orthodox and Orthodox Oriental Orthodox theologians over the years,
Speaker 35: my favorite being doctor Jini.
Speaker 2: Constantino on Ancient Phiz Radio. But my question is.
Speaker 35: I have a difficulty understanding the difference between in terms
Speaker 35: of dogmatic differences our understanding of Jesus Christ between amongst
Speaker 35: Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Christians.
Speaker 5: So we're doing a whole series on this. Got to
Speaker 5: my channel Oriental Ordoxy your futa. We've done two installments,
Speaker 5: we plan to do about ten mm. Have you watched those?
Speaker 2: No idea?
Speaker 5: Okay, so go watch those because they're about three hours each.
Speaker 5: Clead us, Do you want to try again? No way,
Speaker 5: I already went to you, mynnuel or re l.
Speaker 36: Hello, yep, So I wanted to ask you, like, I
Speaker 36: guess two questions, one about tag and one about Islam.
Speaker 12: Is that fine?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 8: So I guess my My question.
Speaker 29: About TAG is I understand that there are preconditions that
Speaker 29: like knowledge and logic, but I don't really understand, like
Speaker 29: how why is there necessity to ground those things? Can
Speaker 29: we just say like they just exists because of the
Speaker 29: impossibility of the country.
Speaker 2: Or something like that.
Speaker 5: Now, if you read the Manion paper explains why that
Speaker 5: doesn't achieve grounding. So just because it doesn't appear that
Speaker 5: there's any other way to exp playing things without that
Speaker 5: or to make sense of the world, that doesn't lead
Speaker 5: to the justification that it is the case because maybe
Speaker 5: it just appears to us or maybe it's just part
Speaker 5: of our mental schema that that's how the world is,
Speaker 5: But that doesn't tell us that the world actually is
Speaker 5: that way. So, in other words, it's not enough to
Speaker 5: get to justification just to say by possibility. Contrary, you
Speaker 5: need you need a positive worldview that goes along with that.
Speaker 5: And that's the point of the Manion paper is that
Speaker 5: only Christian theism posits and explains the basis for all
Speaker 5: of these things, transcetional categories, metaphysical categories, causation, telos tellos.
Speaker 5: So when you say why does it need to be grounded?
Speaker 5: I mean that's a fundamental misunderstanding of like, well, if
Speaker 5: it doesn't have to be grounded, then nobody has to
Speaker 5: ground anything. Okay, I mean if you don't have to
Speaker 5: ground it, that's like in the Matt Dill Hunty debate, like, Okay,
Speaker 5: then I don't then I don't have God exists, I
Speaker 5: don't have to ground it.
Speaker 27: Okay, Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And is it I
Speaker 27: just I would say, uh, is it?
Speaker 29: Is it like this sort of thing where it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 29: I'm seeing this thing and then necessary for grounding, and
Speaker 29: I see this other puzzle piece and they fit right?
Speaker 2: Is it like this?
Speaker 27: Is it like two puzzle pieces, like they just fit together?
Speaker 8: Like?
Speaker 5: No, it's all the transcendental categories that are necessary for
Speaker 5: the possibility predication. They all require and necessitate and presuppose
Speaker 5: one another. So, you know, to have knowledge presupposes a
Speaker 5: knowwheer uh. To have knowledge presupposes time, determination, beginning, middle,
Speaker 5: and end. To have knowledge presupposes an external world presupposes
Speaker 5: laws of logic and meaningful sentences like and those things
Speaker 5: don't stand alone. They all require each other.
Speaker 29: Yeah, yeah, no, But my question is like how do
Speaker 29: you get from like these preconditions and grounding them to
Speaker 29: like an Eastern for the conception of God.
Speaker 5: I mean I've done this a million times, like because
Speaker 5: the only the Christian theistic system posits the metaphysics that
Speaker 5: are required for those things to be grounded, all right,
Speaker 5: and divine conceptualism is a big part of that. And
Speaker 5: you can go check out my videos on that. Uh,
Speaker 5: Eli Jojo, you ran from a baby four ninety nine,
Speaker 5: you were destroyed by Google, got got priso exactly. I
Speaker 5: couldn't take it. Uh, it was really just the loud noise.
Speaker 5: I'm not anti baby, It's just I couldn't hear what
Speaker 5: the guy what I was saying because the baby cap squelching.
Speaker 5: I just saw a membership. James David Flood became a member.
Speaker 5: Shout out, what's up, James David Flood, Eli you want
Speaker 5: I'm mute?
Speaker 2: Hey, do you hear me?
Speaker 37: I had a question on the veneration of saying, I
Speaker 37: get this, asked a lot from my family because they're
Speaker 37: still Protestants and I'm just now converting to wordsidoxy, how
Speaker 37: do you respond to when Protestants say, hey, the Bible has.
Speaker 2: Specifically mentioned the veneration of saints.
Speaker 12: You know, therefore it could be a bad, bad thing
Speaker 12: that you're doing.
Speaker 5: I mean, they're venerated and honored when they're in heaven
Speaker 5: and Revelation five through nine, the bones of Elisha raised
Speaker 5: people from the dead, so they're obviously honored by God
Speaker 5: because they're endued with the power to resurrect people. Cloths
Speaker 5: are taken from Paul's body in the Book of Acts
Speaker 5: to heal people and cast out demons, so God has
Speaker 5: indued those physical objects and the body of Paul with
Speaker 5: a divine power, which in the Book of Thessalonians he
Speaker 5: says is the dunamus, or the energy or power of
Speaker 5: God within him. So God honors his saints and his people.
Speaker 5: God honored the Virgin Mary by entering into her womb
Speaker 5: and denifying her and calling her queen of heaven and
Speaker 5: relation twelve. So God honors the saints. Why wouldn't we
Speaker 5: honor those that God honors? Gosh, I appreciate you, man, sure, yeah.
Speaker 5: Just go look up all those texts and then show
Speaker 5: those to your Protestant friends. Does anyone disagree? I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm not mad at you, guys, just like I see
Speaker 5: a bunch of Orthodox people who are cate of humans
Speaker 5: and people with questions, and those are people who disagree.
Speaker 5: If you want to come on to me. If you disagree,
Speaker 5: just please make arguments. Hey, ha tayo. Two pounds jaydagree Jamie, Hey,
Speaker 5: Jamie doubles press all time for Jay. According to JV
Speaker 5: Free two dollars word Gabe k ten bucks Jay, as
Speaker 5: you see martyrs in two thousand and eight, have not
Speaker 5: seen that. I'll have to check that out. Grip D.
Speaker 5: You want I mute? What's up?
Speaker 12: So he said the words soul.
Speaker 21: What is what is soul defined as.
Speaker 5: Like s O L E or s O U L?
Speaker 12: Is there a difference?
Speaker 5: Are you joking?
Speaker 2: No, I'm not joking at all.
Speaker 12: Is there a difference?
Speaker 5: No, there's no difference between the words soul s O
Speaker 5: L E and the word soul s O U L.
Speaker 5: There's literally no difference. Steven, what's up? And as sstro
Speaker 5: of five bucks? Do your best Matthew McConaughey impression. Well, actually,
Speaker 5: Matthew McConaughey, doesn't he fancy himself some kind of evangelical
Speaker 5: Let's see what would Matthew McConaughey when he reads the
Speaker 5: first Timothy three. Let's let's see how you would read it. Nah,
Speaker 5: these things, these things I write to you, though I
Speaker 5: come to you shortly, if I am delayed. I write
Speaker 5: so that you may know how you ought to conduct
Speaker 5: yourself in the House of God, which is.
Speaker 4: Church, living God, pillar and ground of truth.
Speaker 5: That's first Timothy theory. How's that I'm still a little
Speaker 5: uh sinus, See, so my impressions are not exactly right.
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 4: If I've got some sinusy things going on, Stephen, you
Speaker 4: want I mute?
Speaker 5: What's up? I don't understand the people who come on
Speaker 5: and they never unmute, Like, what what was the purpose?
Speaker 4: Are you there? Stephen?
Speaker 5: You have to turn your mic on if you're gonna
Speaker 5: come speak on a microphone. Elon sees, Kyle, my ologies
Speaker 5: is drawing me crazy to they too on top of
Speaker 5: the trees are on the juniper trees are on attack.
Speaker 5: They're an attack. Elon sees something. What's up?
Speaker 38: I'm mute, hey, Jamie, Jamie, and he an espresso. I'm mute, dude, Jamie,
Speaker 38: I'm singing that song.
Speaker 5: Could you met me? An expresso? Not an espresso, an
Speaker 5: X expresso? Thank you, dog. You don't want to talk,
Speaker 5: You just want to sit there. What's up?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 5: Elon wanna try again? Elon sees Kyle, here we go.
Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Took a while to show up?
Speaker 39: Sorry, Hey, I just want to pick your brain on
Speaker 39: the topic of a humanism, because I hear you talking
Speaker 39: about it now and then, and it seems to be
Speaker 39: like a negative thing that we should, at least in
Speaker 39: your view, that we shouldn't be doing as Orthodox Christians.
Speaker 2: Christians.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a compromising obviously of the ancient tradition and
Speaker 5: the doctrine of the Body of Christ, ecclesiology, all of
Speaker 5: those things are compromised, you know. I mean they can
Speaker 5: say you can't go and pray in the synagogues and
Speaker 5: the and the temples of the heretics.
Speaker 39: Yeah, and I agree with that, but I kind of
Speaker 39: view that as I guess you could count as a humanism.
Speaker 39: But I thought humanism was more defined as regards to
Speaker 39: other groups of Christians like Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox getting together
Speaker 39: on certain things.
Speaker 2: And obviously we've no it has.
Speaker 5: To do with violating the canonical boundaries of the Church
Speaker 5: through public liturgical actions, ceremonies, et cetera. That's how it's defined.
Speaker 5: So you know, can there be some pro life thing
Speaker 5: where Catholics and Orthodox work together, Sure, that's not a cumenism.
Speaker 5: Communism is specifically about public divine worship. I mean it
Speaker 5: could also be like you write a book where you
Speaker 5: say something like, oh, we all have the same faith,
Speaker 5: we're all one church. I mean, it's not just liturgically,
Speaker 5: because it's also theologically. If you were to deny something,
Speaker 5: you know, in terms of the profession of faith, that
Speaker 5: would also count.
Speaker 39: Right and what abound in regards to praying together like
Speaker 39: outside of church.
Speaker 5: Well, you can pray and they can join with you,
Speaker 5: but we're not supposed to join in the services of others.
Speaker 5: Then that's the canonical strictures that I mentioned. But thank
Speaker 5: you for that. Anybody disagree, you go to the have
Speaker 5: the line Wesley cards two dollars. Yeah, the words are
Speaker 5: the same. Hence old food so o l e food.
Speaker 5: That would be like when you eat the sole of
Speaker 5: your shoe. Because of course there's no difference between the
Speaker 5: word soul s O l e and the word soul
Speaker 5: s o U l. What's the difference, Wesley?
Speaker 36: Yes, how do you do?
Speaker 8: Wesley?
Speaker 2: Curry?
Speaker 5: Okay, what's up? Do you've got curry Broda? You've got
Speaker 5: good foods there? You make a d what curry?
Speaker 32: This says?
Speaker 2: Look like a seven eleven? I look on six days ago.
Speaker 40: I prayed to Jesus Christ. I only pray to Jesus Christ,
Speaker 40: and no other name do I pray. I pray to
Speaker 40: Jesus who appear to you all and told you to.
Speaker 2: Tell the vision. Tell the vision. You shall not need
Speaker 2: the market.
Speaker 40: My career was that six days ago we give everybody
Speaker 40: on earth bread.
Speaker 2: Now those of you that sad, so we got only.
Speaker 5: Are going to goodbye Schizo, goodbye skitso right, enjoy Shukri Shukri.
Speaker 5: I'm mute. I'm mute, dude.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm maybe mm hmmm.
Speaker 19: Uh the connection is a little bit bad.
Speaker 10: But I have a question, Okay, are besides Christology other
Speaker 10: problematic differences between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox?
Speaker 2: And does the Oriental as our church have valid priesthood.
Speaker 5: I don't know what valid is an ambiguous term because
Speaker 5: we don't think that it even matters. The ritual could
Speaker 5: be done right, they might be received by vesting, but
Speaker 5: the grace of the rights doesn't return until they return
Speaker 5: to Orthodoxy. So uh yeah, I mean there, We're doing
Speaker 5: a whole series. Go watch the series that we're doing
Speaker 5: on this. This is not Oriental Q and a Night.
Speaker 5: We've done two lectures that are multi hours long about
Speaker 5: or into Orthodoxy, and we're going to do seven more.
Speaker 5: It's just gonna take time. If you have a question,
Speaker 5: you can come on request to speak, but I'm looking
Speaker 5: for people who disagree who would like to come up.
Speaker 5: If you're a Protestant, if you're a Roman Catholic, if
Speaker 5: you're a premillennial, dispensationalist, if you're a Muslim, if you're
Speaker 5: a Gnostic, if you're a Mormon, if you're an atheist,
Speaker 5: if you're a Hebrew Roots supporter of any kind, You're
Speaker 5: welcome to request to speak, and I'll bring you up.
Speaker 5: You can ask your questions or you can make an argument.
Speaker 5: You can speak for as long as you'd like, if
Speaker 5: you'd like to debate within reason. Oxios.
Speaker 2: Hello, Yeah, Okay, So I had this question.
Speaker 27: I couldn't really get an astron on Google.
Speaker 28: But in the Old Testament, when God heartened Pharaoh's heart,
Speaker 28: I'm not sure exactly how to understand that, probably because
Speaker 28: it's it sounds like the.
Speaker 5: Other passage explains how he hearted it. It says he
Speaker 5: hardened it by allowing Pharaoh to hearten his own heart.
Speaker 5: So the two passages together give you the clue as
Speaker 5: to how it occurs. And you have the same thing
Speaker 5: with David taking the census. One passage says God moved
Speaker 5: David to take a census, which was a great sin,
Speaker 5: and the other passage and the other historical book says
Speaker 5: that Satan moved David to take a census. So, just
Speaker 5: like with Pharaoh, the way that God allowed. That was
Speaker 5: allowing Satan to attempt David in that way. So that's
Speaker 5: how that happens. It's a boat and cleat us again.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up, Jay, I'm back again. Remind me of
Speaker 2: what we're talking about.
Speaker 23: I forgot it was about rebaptism. You kind of unlocked
Speaker 23: me because of the way I'm just not used to.
Speaker 2: I guess what youcked me? Mental?
Speaker 5: Does that mean?
Speaker 23: Sunlock is like, let's say you hit like a goat
Speaker 23: with like I don't know, a ball, you know.
Speaker 2: How like goats faint?
Speaker 4: Goats faint?
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen like YouTube.
Speaker 23: Videos of goats fainting? They like get stun locked and
Speaker 23: they just like tip over? No, okay, well that's a term.
Speaker 5: I mean. Also, I'm gonna go subscribe to the goat
Speaker 5: fainting channels when we get off it here, But go ahead.
Speaker 23: Well, so I just I basically I wanted to because
Speaker 23: I don't know. I am a cate of human but
Speaker 23: but right, I'm not fully orthodox yet, I guess you know.
Speaker 2: I hope that's valid.
Speaker 5: I have a video on this if you could just
Speaker 5: type into YouTube the question of rebaptism.
Speaker 12: So is that.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's not it's not ethic. I'm not to be mean,
Speaker 5: it's just it's not ethic.
Speaker 23: You nine, well, no, I guess I understand that too,
Speaker 23: but I mean I so basically it's kind of question
Speaker 23: of what is the lesser of two evils? If that
Speaker 23: makes sense, And because everywhere there's problems.
Speaker 5: With you know, I don't understand what you're talking. What's
Speaker 5: the lesser between what?
Speaker 23: Well, so if there are inconsistencies slightly in all the churches, right.
Speaker 5: The Orthodox position is on economia or on economia, is
Speaker 5: that it's up to the local bishops to decide how
Speaker 5: and when and whether baptism is necessary, whether there's a
Speaker 5: profession renunciation of errors, cherstmation, it's a local decision. There
Speaker 5: does not have to be a one size fits all rule.
Speaker 5: And that's a difference from Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism assumes
Speaker 5: that there's a one size fits all rule. But even
Speaker 5: Roman Catholics have conditional baptism, so they do the exact
Speaker 5: same thing. So again I don't even understand what. Go
Speaker 5: watch the video that I've made on this topic. It's
Speaker 5: just type in rebaptism. JDR. Not being mean to you,
Speaker 5: it's just it's not faq, Knight, it's not catech human
Speaker 5: question nite. I'm looking for people who disagree. We got
Speaker 5: one hundred and five people in here, and most of
Speaker 5: the time the questions like that that come, or the
Speaker 5: never ending Oriental Orthodox questions. That's why we're doing this
Speaker 5: ongoing series so that I don't have to repeat the
Speaker 5: same answers every time we do this live stream. I'm
Speaker 5: not being mean. It's not really imagine you, guys, if
Speaker 5: you had repeated something that's been asked to you literally
Speaker 5: hundreds of times. That's the reason that I seem dismissive
Speaker 5: is not because I don't like you, or I hate people,
Speaker 5: or I he's mean. It's that we make videos and
Speaker 5: podcasts on these topics so that I don't have to
Speaker 5: keep doing that so I can tell you, hey, guess
Speaker 5: what this FAQ question. We've already got a whole talk
Speaker 5: on it. And a lot of people are freaking lazy, man.
Speaker 5: They won't go and find the videos. I understand it's
Speaker 5: not all laziness, because sometimes the videos are buried in
Speaker 5: the YouTube algorithm, but a lot of these questions they're
Speaker 5: pretty easy to like get, they're easy to find, so
Speaker 5: if it's me saying like tonight is debate night. That
Speaker 5: means it's not what do I do for fasting? What's
Speaker 5: the proper spirit prayer rule?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 5: Well, what's the cannon on?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 19: You know?
Speaker 5: Can I go to the movies? Or like, it's not
Speaker 5: what we're doing tonight. It says that the top Debate night, Steven.
Speaker 8: Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 9: Good?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was on earlier.
Speaker 41: I think I'm a problem with my mic on my
Speaker 41: laptop ever since we got this new microphone.
Speaker 29: I'm not I'm not a technician when it when it
Speaker 29: comes to laptops.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Yeah, But before I go to my question, first, I
Speaker 12: want to say Jay, I thought.
Speaker 2: He did a really good Matthew mcconnoughey, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: So my question is about.
Speaker 18: The cannon.
Speaker 5: You're cutting out, man, can't harry you? Uh you you've
Speaker 5: cut out man. Let's see that guy. There was one
Speaker 5: guy that clipped a maybe it's just baptisms not rebuilt.
Speaker 5: There's a guy that clipped it and it was a
Speaker 5: different channel. It wasn't my channel.
Speaker 8: Riptured.
Speaker 5: You're ear cutting out man. I don't know, Kenny.
Speaker 12: I can't hear you at all.
Speaker 5: That's you're in bro, all right, it's open for him.
Speaker 5: I'm looking for people who disagree. That means not f
Speaker 5: a questions, not catechumen question night. If you disagree, you
Speaker 5: go to the head of the line. What did that
Speaker 5: guy title that video? The thing that's annoying is that
Speaker 5: you you basically have to have like the perfect title
Speaker 5: or it doesn't come up.
Speaker 14: It was.
Speaker 42: Let's try it orthodox baptism. I don't know why that's
Speaker 42: the only thing that comes up. This might be old
Speaker 42: now this maybe this is it, and this isn't it.
Speaker 42: I don't know why it doesn't come up.
Speaker 5: Maybe this is it. No, that's not it. Well, I thought,
Speaker 5: maybe we get some Protestants coming in tonight, but I
Speaker 5: don't really, we're not getting much of that. We just
Speaker 5: got a couple kind of lunatic people. What was the
Speaker 5: name of that video? Orthodox? Let's see valid?
Speaker 4: Maybe it was.
Speaker 5: Valid? Is always what confuses people. I don't know. I
Speaker 5: don't even have the energy to look for it. Awakened.
Speaker 5: There was a guy that was making clips and he
Speaker 5: clipped a really good, like twenty minute discussion on baptism
Speaker 5: and rebaptism, and I thought, you know, finally we have
Speaker 5: like the video where I don't have to repeat this
Speaker 5: tell me? Do you a lot of stream? And I'm
Speaker 5: so tired of PSA like, I mean, I mean, I've
Speaker 5: explained and are you the PSA thing probably like at
Speaker 5: least a few hundred times in the last five years.
Speaker 5: I hate this or saved like, Oh, I can't stand
Speaker 5: these questions. Man, I'm yeah, man, what's up?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 12: You do you hear me?
Speaker 26: Huh?
Speaker 12: Yeah? I am cradle and probably not.
Speaker 43: Asking a debate question, so I hope you don't mind.
Speaker 43: But I just had a question with regards to Catholic apologetics. Okay,
Speaker 43: as it relates to Oriental orthodoxy, which you could shut
Speaker 43: me down if you're going to detail it in your channel,
Speaker 43: But because I was curious. Sometimes I hear them throw
Speaker 43: around it seems like a lazy argument, but I don't
Speaker 43: have a good response to it. That they're kind of concilier,
Speaker 43: you know, universal good by the Holy Spirit approach is
Speaker 43: essentially ours, and that we have no grounds to disparage
Speaker 43: them compared to ours, and since they have the Pope,
Speaker 43: they can you know, And I'm just curious how you'd
Speaker 43: basically respond to that if I praise that clearly.
Speaker 5: I don't understand what what's say it again?
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sorry.
Speaker 43: Essentially, like, you know, our epistemology is very similar to theirs,
Speaker 43: if that's the right word, Like the way we come
Speaker 43: to decisions through councils.
Speaker 12: Right, there's no pope declaring things.
Speaker 5: Ours is similar to the Roman Catholic to the Orientals.
Speaker 5: Oh I thought you said caloign nevermind.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 43: But the Catholics say that ours is similar to the Orientals,
Speaker 43: and that because of that, you know, we don't have
Speaker 43: the unifying leader to deduce between the two, right, that
Speaker 43: we have no grounding to say that we're right in
Speaker 43: their room.
Speaker 12: And I'm just curious from.
Speaker 43: Like authoritative standpoint, like, how would.
Speaker 12: You respond to that?
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think that the papacy does the work,
Speaker 5: but they think it does. So there, I suppose a
Speaker 5: solution to this problem is really a problem that everybody has. So,
Speaker 5: I mean, has Francis solved the problems in the church
Speaker 5: with his past fifteen years of just attend thirteen years
Speaker 5: of decisions? Has this has this worked?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 12: That's that's typically where I go, which is why I
Speaker 12: decide as on that.
Speaker 5: I mean, if that's the case, Like how was the
Speaker 5: how were the problem solved in the first three and
Speaker 5: twenty years before? Right before?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 5: And and I mean, does it even make sense to
Speaker 5: even cite Nicea if your Roman Catholic should be like,
Speaker 5: why didn't the pope just decide the issues at Nicea?
Speaker 5: Like because remember they'll cite Clements Ella Clements deciding issues.
Speaker 5: So he's the first autocrat universal pope example that we
Speaker 5: have post apostles. And it's like, okay, if that's how
Speaker 5: it works, then why is there a need for any
Speaker 5: problems to be squelched by an ecumenical council? Councils are
Speaker 5: a huge ordeal. They're called by emperors. Money is put
Speaker 5: into it from the imperial treasury. People are brought from,
Speaker 5: you know, hundreds of miles away. It takes forever. It's
Speaker 5: a huge ordeal in the ancient world. And according to them,
Speaker 5: the problems are just solved by the pope's decisions, according
Speaker 5: to batic and one.
Speaker 12: So all of that he lets us two councils, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well? I mean, why is he being nice when he
Speaker 5: could be it could be a lot more efficient and
Speaker 5: like sensible and pragmatic I thought that's what they're all about, right,
Speaker 5: like the oh yeah, another if you remember this what
Speaker 5: a bar actually says. He's like, well, the pope had
Speaker 5: that power book, he did in no ways use it.
Speaker 5: Oh so in other words, he failed at what he
Speaker 5: was supposed to do throughout the first thousand years. That's
Speaker 5: what you're saying, right.
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's ridiculous. I think that's very eloquently for.
Speaker 2: To thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, I just think that this that whole thing
Speaker 5: is a thing that evolved and let's a young potawan.
Speaker 5: What's up, dude? Dollars are getting to me? Thor is dead.
Speaker 5: Five dollars God logic tactic. Interpret Protestant proof texts, draw
Speaker 5: them in and then say we just reading Maine. I
Speaker 5: could try that tactic, just read the text and be like, oh,
Speaker 5: we're just reading dog little Blue. Two dollars. You got
Speaker 5: a soul patch so o l E underneath your lip
Speaker 5: exactly except I shaved it. Viga less guys, spread the
Speaker 5: love for Jade daigre. What does that mean? Is that
Speaker 5: like the Daugasteini version of dire, I don't know what
Speaker 5: that means? Young whatever boom or unmute.
Speaker 12: Hey Jay, I'm a Protestant bro.
Speaker 5: So, okay, what's up?
Speaker 2: Who's talking right now?
Speaker 5: I'm talking to you. I was impersonating you.
Speaker 12: Oh hey, bro, So I have a question.
Speaker 41: So I have a Protestant background, and you know, I
Speaker 41: got a Catholic church right next to me, and so
Speaker 41: I'm going to try and hit an Orthodox church.
Speaker 2: Allow.
Speaker 41: I want to thank you for the recommendations of Saint
Speaker 41: Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological controversy. I'm also listening
Speaker 41: to the Apstock Fathers great things.
Speaker 12: But I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 41: You know, since you are Orthodox, what is the teaching
Speaker 41: as it relates to the household, especially the father and
Speaker 41: or a husband.
Speaker 2: And like Protestant.
Speaker 41: Background, there's always this like working as a team, help
Speaker 41: your wife grow in Christ. Is that the same for
Speaker 41: Orthodox for Orthodoxy or is it more of a leadership
Speaker 41: driven role In Orthodoxy?
Speaker 5: I would say it should be a leadership driven role.
Speaker 5: I don't see this idea of egalitarianism. I mean, you
Speaker 5: can have a position of authority and work as a team.
Speaker 5: There's nothing about team that necessitates there being egalitarianism per se.
Speaker 5: You can have a team leader. I mean, so the
Speaker 5: terminology is kind of vague, but I mean I would
Speaker 5: I would say the religion is one patriarchal got it.
Speaker 12: That was the answer I wanted.
Speaker 2: Man, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you're gonna find libs everywhere, though, So
Speaker 5: you're gonna you can find an Orthodox church where some
Speaker 5: woman will tell you that we're working to bring priests
Speaker 5: women priests to the church and get rid of the patriarch.
Speaker 5: I'm sure you can find some. It's always going to
Speaker 5: be some fat woman too, that's saying that. I'm sure
Speaker 5: you can find it. Ninety some fat feminists. I'm sure.
Speaker 5: Just go to ancient faith radio. The women that you
Speaker 5: find on there, that's they're going to be pushing that probably. Uh,
Speaker 5: it's open for him. Anybody want to come to debate.
Speaker 5: We've got still got ninety people in here. We've only
Speaker 5: been going for hour forty five. No Protestants that disagree,
Speaker 5: No Roman Catholics that disagree, No Gnostics, no Mormons. No,
Speaker 5: I'm just almost starting naming all the cults.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 5: No om Shinrico proponents, No Evangelical Calvinists, no Reformed Baptists.
Speaker 5: Know how many cults?
Speaker 4: Can we go through all of them?
Speaker 5: Again?
Speaker 4: No Mendians no Druze, no Hashamites, no Hasha Shim, no Shiah,
Speaker 4: no Hebrew roots.
Speaker 2: Let's see we.
Speaker 5: Got red patriot. Oh my gosh, Marxist Leninists, this will
Speaker 5: be good. Hello, what's up?
Speaker 2: I'm a Christian Communist.
Speaker 5: It doesn't exist, is the I.
Speaker 44: Don't think any church on earth right now is is
Speaker 44: as concerned as they should be with the prohibited uh
Speaker 44: practice of usury. I think all of the churches practice
Speaker 44: usury in their own their own organizations and uh as
Speaker 44: we know in the Lord's prayer.
Speaker 5: How to Orthodox churchs practice usury in their organizations? What
Speaker 5: does that mean?
Speaker 23: Well, I mean there's a lot of things to be
Speaker 23: concerned with with usury and the Orthodox Church.
Speaker 44: Your churches are just not as committed to the Christian spirit,
Speaker 44: you know.
Speaker 5: And so your answer to that question was to restate
Speaker 5: the original thing in question.
Speaker 44: You know, Yeah, it's it's it's a and then you
Speaker 44: also canonize like people like.
Speaker 5: The again again full of full of usurers.
Speaker 2: Dynasty is no ideal.
Speaker 5: So you're not going to answer. So, and there is
Speaker 5: no such thing as a Christian communists. You just made
Speaker 5: up your own thing.
Speaker 2: You you can you can dismiss me on.
Speaker 5: You're not going to answer the questions, is why I'm
Speaker 5: moving on.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: And your argument was to restake your position twice and
Speaker 5: then again three times in a row, so that doesn't
Speaker 5: constitute an argument. I asked you specifically for what the
Speaker 5: argument was that Orthodox organizations are participating in usury. You
Speaker 5: restated the thing in question, and then you said the
Speaker 5: Ramanovs included usurers. The Orthodox position of sainthood can include
Speaker 5: people who did not necessarily live exemplar relives, but for example,
Speaker 5: confessed at their death and became martyrs. So that doesn't
Speaker 5: even negate the Ramanovs. And I'm not even sure that
Speaker 5: the Romanovs were a bunch of users. I mean, I
Speaker 5: don't even know, except I accept that assertion. You need
Speaker 5: to demonstrate that from the outset. But you weren't going
Speaker 5: to answer any questions. You just wanted to gap and
Speaker 5: make up your own. There's also thing as a Christian
Speaker 5: Communist Marxist doesn't exist. It's a made up thing. Does
Speaker 5: anyone have an argument? Anyone disagree? I'm not taking q
Speaker 5: and as I'm looking for people who disagree, any dispensation.
Speaker 5: It's any pre millennials, any sola fide so scripture.
Speaker 4: Anyone who's a Mormon, anyone who is a uh, let's
Speaker 4: see Joseph either dude.
Speaker 5: We already went to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what's up?
Speaker 12: Jay's my question?
Speaker 45: He is like, you're a smart dude, And how how
Speaker 45: can you still believe in a younger? Like I hold
Speaker 45: Michael Jones position. I don't want to like get into
Speaker 45: like the logistics, but like, how do you still hold
Speaker 45: a younger?
Speaker 5: How do you not hold to it given the fact
Speaker 5: that it's built on so many lies?
Speaker 2: Like what about.
Speaker 5: So what about piltdown Man, Nebraska Man. You know they're
Speaker 5: ford their their frauds.
Speaker 2: Wait, what are you what is that?
Speaker 5: What are you talking about? You don't even know exactly,
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't pilt down Man, Nebraska Man.
Speaker 5: They're famous frauds. And that's your example. You're supposed to nut.
Speaker 5: Your go to is this famous freaking laughable frauds. Cavemen.
Speaker 5: The Geico caveman is what you go to. Literally, like
Speaker 5: one of the most famous examples of this is like
Speaker 5: the most famous hosts pilt Down Man. And by the way,
Speaker 5: Nebraskaman's exact same. And why is the why is Taylor
Speaker 5: de Sharden popping up at all these By the way,
Speaker 5: anybody else looking for people who disagree? We look for
Speaker 5: the Muslims, the Mormons, the Atheists, the Dispensations, the Protestants,
Speaker 5: the Roman Catholics, of the Gnostics. I don't. I just
Speaker 5: simply am way more of a skeptic on scientism claims
Speaker 5: than what's his name aspiring philosophy would be a sparing
Speaker 5: philosophy defaults to a lot of this scientist domain, and
Speaker 5: I don't. I think a lot of that stuff is fraudulent.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, sure we go, Hey.
Speaker 26: J how are you?
Speaker 5: What's up?
Speaker 2: Nothing much?
Speaker 33: So I come from a Muslim background, and I just
Speaker 33: requently watched your debate with Dake brinkintella. So I'm not
Speaker 33: as philosophical or I'm not as.
Speaker 19: Smart and philosophy as you guys are.
Speaker 33: So I had to struggle, you know, understanding the terms
Speaker 33: and everything of the debate. But I understand your point
Speaker 33: of that we count God by division and not by identity,
Speaker 33: and I just wanted to understand why.
Speaker 2: Is that that we don't count by identity.
Speaker 5: I didn't say that. I said that we count in
Speaker 5: different ways, different things in different ways, And I said
Speaker 5: that the ancient world counted by division. That that was uh,
Speaker 5: that was uncontroversial because you can look at al Gazali,
Speaker 5: you can look at Aristotle, you can look through medieval
Speaker 5: Earth manuals like that's how they counted. It's why the
Speaker 5: Nicene Creed says that God is won and indivisible. And
Speaker 5: when you read, for example, Maximus the Confessor, he talks
Speaker 5: about the monad is first, and then we have from
Speaker 5: the monad the diad, and it's a splitting of the
Speaker 5: monad into a diad and then into a triad. So
Speaker 5: that's literally dividing, counting by division.
Speaker 33: No, I understand the concept of counting by division, and
Speaker 33: I don't think that is inherently logical, you know what
Speaker 33: I mean, Like if we split a ply into three parts.
Speaker 19: It's still one pie.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 5: But the point was that both Christians and Muslims would
Speaker 5: require counting both by division and by identity, depending upon
Speaker 5: what they were picking out in their respective deities. So
Speaker 5: when a Muslim picks out the singular divine essence, Algazali
Speaker 5: would say that God is indivisible. But when you're picking
Speaker 5: out specific divine attributes, you would need to identify them
Speaker 5: and pick them out in a different way.
Speaker 33: We still recognize that there are multiple attributes. We don't
Speaker 33: say that there are one attribute.
Speaker 19: We count attributes by identity as well, because.
Speaker 5: There I just said, you count the identity the attributes
Speaker 5: by identity.
Speaker 33: So in what way do we count in the Islamic conception,
Speaker 33: In what way do they count God?
Speaker 5: My point was that you also would require the same
Speaker 5: form of counting in both ways, as I understand, and
Speaker 5: that was against the position of Jake, who was that
Speaker 5: the only way to count is identity, which is a
Speaker 5: more of a modern idea.
Speaker 33: No, I understand your point now, but I'm trying to say,
Speaker 33: in what sense in the Islamic conception do they count
Speaker 33: by a divisibility.
Speaker 5: When, for example, yeah, when you're if you're talking about
Speaker 5: the unity or tall heed Uh. For example, algaz Ali
Speaker 5: speaks of God as one and indivisible. He literally has
Speaker 5: an entire section about counting allah Uh and in his
Speaker 5: unity via division because the ancient world counted that way.
Speaker 5: You don't get to counting by identity until you get
Speaker 5: into more of a philosophical medieval conception where you have
Speaker 5: things that are not divitible that can still be counted.
Speaker 5: So for example, abstract objects, logical laws, sets, it makes
Speaker 5: no sense to count those types of things by division,
Speaker 5: and so they're counted by identity.
Speaker 2: I understand, Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 5: So what's the question about a lot attributes or does
Speaker 5: that answer it?
Speaker 10: Oh?
Speaker 19: No, no, no, you addressed it. I'm just going to
Speaker 19: do more research on my own.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 33: I'm going to say, you and Jake make really compelling points.
Speaker 33: I think you guys are probably the smartest out of
Speaker 33: all the apologetics on YouTube.
Speaker 5: So what compelling point did Jake make?
Speaker 14: Well?
Speaker 19: I didn't really see how we count what do you
Speaker 19: call it?
Speaker 33: Why it would make sense to count God by division
Speaker 33: and not by identity when we see that?
Speaker 5: Did you not hear anything that I said? So you're
Speaker 5: not listening to what I said.
Speaker 2: No, no, I heard what you said.
Speaker 5: When did I say that we don't count God by identity? Also,
Speaker 5: I didn't say that I said that. For example, I
Speaker 5: said both positions would utilize both things because different ways
Speaker 5: of counting are picking out different types of things. So,
Speaker 5: for example, when we say that God is one and
Speaker 5: indivisible in the creed, that's a reference to the divine essence.
Speaker 5: But when we start picking out specifics like the Father,
Speaker 5: the Son, the Holy Spirit, those are properties that are
Speaker 5: being picked out that are identities, of.
Speaker 33: Course, and that's why you claim that there are three
Speaker 33: persons but not there are three God, because they are
Speaker 33: three identities.
Speaker 19: But that's what I'm trying to say is that if there.
Speaker 33: Are three different identities and each three of them are individually.
Speaker 19: Fully God, then why would there not be three Gods?
Speaker 5: Because the term God is intended first of all to
Speaker 5: pick out the person of the Father, and so there's
Speaker 5: God by identity, and then there's God by predication. So
Speaker 5: you're the argument that you're making there assumes that the
Speaker 5: word God only picks out one thing. But in divine revelation,
Speaker 5: for example, the word God picks out multiple things, such
Speaker 5: as divine persons, divine energies, the divine essence, divine human
Speaker 5: people that are called gods or divinities, and then angels
Speaker 5: that are called gods or divinities or demons. The word
Speaker 5: God good is a broad term that can be used
Speaker 5: to pick out all of those things. And so the
Speaker 5: entire Muslim argument is premised on a word concept fallacy
Speaker 5: that the word God only picks out or has a
Speaker 5: reference to one thing, and that's the mistake. And I'm
Speaker 5: pointing out that even in your own system, it doesn't
Speaker 5: work that way, which is why we ask Jake the
Speaker 5: questions about whether all his attributes are self existent, because
Speaker 5: it would be the same problem applied to the attributes
Speaker 5: that you're making to us.
Speaker 19: I see, I see it.
Speaker 33: So do you what I would ask is then what
Speaker 33: I would then ask would be if God has this
Speaker 33: nuanced definition when we make this, when you make the
Speaker 33: statement from the.
Speaker 5: Ubanari, you have the same position. You have the same
Speaker 5: metaphysical scheme at work.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. I'm just trying to understand this.
Speaker 19: So, so when we say that the Father is God, you're.
Speaker 33: Saying that it's both predication and identity.
Speaker 5: With the Father. The Father is God because he's fought,
Speaker 5: he is source, are found, cause, et cetera. Yes, and
Speaker 5: the Son and the Spirit participate in divinity by predication, right,
Speaker 5: so they receive their divinity from the Father. But properly speaking,
Speaker 5: in monarchical trinitarianism, the word God is a reference to
Speaker 5: the person of the Father.
Speaker 33: Okay, so only the Father can be used God in
Speaker 33: an identical form, but for the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Speaker 33: it would have to be in a predicative for is
Speaker 33: that im I understanding that?
Speaker 5: Because that yeah, because they receive U. I mean, it's
Speaker 5: not wrong to call the Son God because he has
Speaker 5: the divine nature, but it's for us first and foremost.
Speaker 5: God picks out the person of the Father, but it
Speaker 5: can also will be used to pick out the divine nature,
Speaker 5: divine operations, and it can also be used to pick
Speaker 5: out human and angelic and demonic entities. The demons are
Speaker 5: called gods, for example. So then if I were to
Speaker 5: can I give you an example?
Speaker 33: Okay, sorry, I just want to ask one quick question.
Speaker 33: So if I were to say the Son is God,
Speaker 33: then I'm not really saying that he is God.
Speaker 2: In the identical sense. I'm saying that he is divine.
Speaker 33: He possesses God's essence, but he's not actually God in
Speaker 33: the identical.
Speaker 5: Sense, not in the sense of being the Father, because
Speaker 5: the Father is properly speaking, the cause, the fount, the source,
Speaker 5: et cetera. And that's why Jesus says the Father is greater.
Speaker 5: That's the orthodox understanding of monarchical trinitarianism.
Speaker 33: I see, I see, But then see That's when I
Speaker 33: start to see what Justin Martyr was talking about in
Speaker 33: his dialogue with Trifle, because you just denied the individ
Speaker 33: the identity of God with Jesus Christ to him. I
Speaker 33: think a majority of Orthodox Christians would say, no, Jesus
Speaker 33: Christ or the One is God by identity, like it's
Speaker 33: not just a mere predication.
Speaker 5: That's just assuming again, that argument is assuming equalitarianism and
Speaker 5: that the word God only has a reference to the
Speaker 5: divine nature. And that's the very thing that we just
Speaker 5: pointed out is not monarchical trinitarianism.
Speaker 2: No, My grife is really that when.
Speaker 33: We're using saying the Son is God or Jesus Christ
Speaker 33: is God, we're not actually saying that he is an
Speaker 33: identical sense, where it's more like saying it's more kin
Speaker 33: to saying God or Jesus Christ is divine.
Speaker 5: He is the divine Son who possesses the divine nature.
Speaker 33: Many Christians find that problematic though, to deny.
Speaker 5: The I mean, I'm a defender of Orthodox Christian Christianity,
Speaker 5: which is the teaching of the Second Ecumenical Council on
Speaker 5: monarchical trinitarianism. So I don't care what Roman Catholics think
Speaker 5: don't care what Protestants think. We're not interested in a
Speaker 5: popularity contest. And by the way, the Muslim view is
Speaker 5: exact same. It's just not with persons, it's with attributes.
Speaker 5: Do you believe that Allah's attributes are God?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 19: No, No, he possesses attributes.
Speaker 5: Okay, So the attributes are not God by identity? No,
Speaker 5: So they don't self exist, No, they depend.
Speaker 19: They're not dependent.
Speaker 5: Well, if they don't self exist, then they are in
Speaker 5: then they are. So self existence means that they are independent,
Speaker 5: So they can't be dependent.
Speaker 19: I see.
Speaker 33: So if they're dependent on God, what would be the
Speaker 33: implications of that position?
Speaker 5: Then the word God cannot just refer to Allah in
Speaker 5: one sense. It also has to pick out other things.
Speaker 5: Then you have to have other ways of counting and
Speaker 5: distinguishing in a law.
Speaker 33: So because the attributes are dependent on a law, that
Speaker 33: means that the attributes would have to be considered God
Speaker 33: as well.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm asking you the position. Are they God
Speaker 5: by identity? Are they God by participation? They depend ourselves.
Speaker 19: I don't think they're gonna attributes for God in any sense.
Speaker 19: I think they're just attributes.
Speaker 5: So Allah's word is not Allah of course not.
Speaker 19: No, it's Alla's word.
Speaker 5: Are they uncreated or created?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 33: I would say Allah's word is created.
Speaker 5: All his words created, so the attributes of all are created.
Speaker 5: That's that's let's.
Speaker 33: See what you're positioning now, Yeah, it's it's really philosophically perplexing.
Speaker 2: You see.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean you've had centuries of your own people
Speaker 5: debating this, right, I mean I got a book right
Speaker 5: here where Uh, of course, where a bunch of your
Speaker 5: own people are calling you guys, uh anthropomorphic heretics critique
Speaker 5: of the Palmerian creed. So I mean, do you agree
Speaker 5: with Jake's position that Allah has an uncreated foot?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 19: Yeah, we could just pause it that we don't know
Speaker 19: the hounds or the wind.
Speaker 5: I mean you can say that, but what is a
Speaker 5: foot that's nothing like a foot?
Speaker 33: Well then you're you're positing that we must know the
Speaker 33: hows and whyness of God?
Speaker 5: But I is the foot?
Speaker 4: Okay, I don't care how you frame it however you want.
Speaker 5: Is the foot uncreated or creator? You said all I
Speaker 5: has created attributes, which is heresy by the way, in
Speaker 5: your position.
Speaker 33: Well, I'm fallible, you know, I'm trying to say, I'm
Speaker 33: still in the learning.
Speaker 5: Okay, do you guys kill each other over that? Or
Speaker 5: is that cool? Unfallible? Just say I'm fallible. It's like
Speaker 5: I can commit shirt, but I'm fallible. Didn't you guys
Speaker 5: kill each other mut the Mutazila didn't? Were there battles
Speaker 5: over this?
Speaker 2: Of course there were battles over okay?
Speaker 5: So do we know? I thought this was simple position,
Speaker 5: like all is one? Right? Are the attributes created or uncreated?
Speaker 12: Well, I don't know why the attributes would.
Speaker 33: Even be in an argument because we're not positing that
Speaker 33: the attributes are separate individual person in So.
Speaker 5: You, in other words, you don't want me to bring
Speaker 5: them into the argument because it shows that you have
Speaker 5: the exact same metaphysical problem that you're putting on. I
Speaker 5: just don't understand how the argument is because it shows
Speaker 5: the stupidity of the position to say that Allah has
Speaker 5: an uncreated foot and then you just said that Alla
Speaker 5: has created attributes.
Speaker 33: But you see, this is what this is how I'm
Speaker 33: this is how I'm understanding.
Speaker 5: So the trinitarian con Now you're going to my position.
Speaker 5: I want to know about is there an uncreated foot
Speaker 5: or a creative foot? Is all his foot? I'm creator created?
Speaker 5: Which one is it.
Speaker 19: Ultra? I'm not sure.
Speaker 5: But the thing is, I'm not so you don't have
Speaker 5: a so so you don't have a school. There's no
Speaker 5: akida for you. You can just make it up as
Speaker 5: you go or what?
Speaker 2: All?
Speaker 33: Sure, I don't need to commit myself to a certain
Speaker 33: nakita on this stream.
Speaker 5: You don't try to ask questions?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 5: So that's this honest that what I'm point was, Troy, see,
Speaker 5: I don't have to commit to any now you do
Speaker 5: if you're gonna, uh teach Islam, you're supposed to be
Speaker 5: part of some school. There's no make it up as
Speaker 5: you go. And you heard him say that Allah has
Speaker 5: created attributes, the speech of Allah is created. That's pretty much.
Speaker 5: I think every mon someone believes that's heresy. I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think there's any OFLSS left that think that.
Speaker 2: Troy and you, okay, can you hear me?
Speaker 7: Yep?
Speaker 8: So I'm an ex gnostic coming intoward the dogs.
Speaker 2: He and I just have a pretty much a question
Speaker 2: for something I'm.
Speaker 10: Confused about, which is how is lady wisdom and proverbs
Speaker 10: understood and orthodox?
Speaker 2: Is she identified with Christ?
Speaker 5: The logos that feminine yes the Paul in the New
Speaker 5: Testament identifies Christ as the wisdom of God. So it's
Speaker 5: a personification of God's wisdom. But that wisdom is the
Speaker 5: second person of the Godhead. There's no feminine person in
Speaker 5: the Trinity. There's no not that's a gnostic idea. In fact,
Speaker 5: I was just reading Carl Young who says that he's
Speaker 5: a gnostic because of the Trinity banished the Goddess from
Speaker 5: the Godhead.
Speaker 12: So uh.
Speaker 5: But it's also a reference to the Church. The Church
Speaker 5: is the feminine, the house of God that's built on
Speaker 5: seven pillars, that offers bread and wine, as the text discussed.
Speaker 5: That's a prediction of the Eucharist, the divine liturgy. There's
Speaker 5: also a reference to probably marry the Theatocos.
Speaker 2: That's actually fantastic, Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, great questions. I'm glad that somebody brought nobody's ever
Speaker 5: brought that up. That's that's actually a really good question.
Speaker 5: Jubba Glitchy Rhythm five dollars Jay, explain why Protestants. Can
Speaker 5: you explain to the provinces why we're not all saints?
Speaker 5: They love discrediting saints with the verse from Corinthians.
Speaker 9: Well, we're all.
Speaker 5: Saints in potentia, or we're all called out, but not
Speaker 5: everybody is at the level of Saint Paul or a
Speaker 5: Saint Basil. So that's to me that seems like it
Speaker 5: should be a no brainer. What's up, man, Jebbo?
Speaker 6: He all right, I have a question about icons. There's
Speaker 6: this argument against icons that I don't know how they answer. Okay,
Speaker 6: So it's the argument is that God's essence is inaccessible
Speaker 6: and beyond human comprehension. Even in Christ's hyposcetic union, his
Speaker 6: divine nature remains unseen and ineffable. So San Gregory wrote
Speaker 6: about this about God's invisible in nature being beyond human reach.
Speaker 6: Thus representing Christ's divine essence through icons contradicts the belief
Speaker 6: that God's divinity is entirely invisible, right.
Speaker 5: And so that's why the Seventh e Commitical Council says
Speaker 5: that it's not the divine essence that is depicted in
Speaker 5: the icons, just the divine hypostasis of the sun, not
Speaker 5: the usia. It's the person. And the reason that we
Speaker 5: can interact with the divine person is through the energies
Speaker 5: of the persons. So the energies are in hypostatic, and
Speaker 5: as the Seventh Ecmenical Council says, you can read on
Speaker 5: the Holy Icons by saying Theodore. In that book, he
Speaker 5: says that what's circumscribed is the divine hypostasis. The divine
Speaker 5: essence is uncircumscribable. So you have to have the distinction
Speaker 5: between nature and person and between essence and energy to
Speaker 5: have iconography.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Yeah, good question.
Speaker 5: And again on the Holy Icons by s Theodore, this
Speaker 5: tude explicitly answers that very question. Everybody should read that
Speaker 5: one if they're interested in iconography. Anybody else disagree, anybody
Speaker 5: have any challenges. We still got twelve hundred people over here.
Speaker 5: Let me check to see if I missed a super
Speaker 5: chat over here on stream labs clead us here. I
Speaker 5: want to find your video. I'll send you fifty dollars
Speaker 5: if you find me the link. I mean that's come
Speaker 5: up a lot. I mean it's not like the video
Speaker 5: that questions never come up. I just don't remember off
Speaker 5: the top of my head where we've done so many
Speaker 5: live streams and that question has come up so many times.
Speaker 5: I have to think of how that guy that made
Speaker 5: the clip worded it. Batt let's try valid baptism. I
Speaker 5: don't know why this comes up. It's not about that,
Speaker 5: it's just not going to come up. See that they
Speaker 5: changed the algorithm all the time, and then stuff that
Speaker 5: used to come up doesn't come up. Maybe the clips
Speaker 5: channel guy like took his clips channel down. I don't know,
Speaker 5: maybe it's not there anymore. I just don't even understand,
Speaker 5: and like why is it even an issue, like just
Speaker 5: do what your bishop says, Like why are you like
Speaker 5: it's the practice of ro Corps to baptize everyone that
Speaker 5: comes to ro cords and that's because jurisdictions are decentralized
Speaker 5: and they can make those decisions as they choose. I
Speaker 5: just don't understand why this is a hang up for you.
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just not understood.
Speaker 5: Like to me, this is like not even like this
Speaker 5: is like the what Paul calls milk. It's time to
Speaker 5: move on to the meat. I'm not dissing you. I
Speaker 5: just don't understand the hang up or what the problem is.
Speaker 4: Let's try sacraments, see what we do with that.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't understand the Roman Catholic mindset
Speaker 5: that they think this is like a like a defeater
Speaker 5: for Orthodoxy. It's like they have an expectation that the
Speaker 5: or Roman the Orthodoxy will operate like Roman Catholicism, and
Speaker 5: so there's there's like a jurisdictional differentiation. They think that's
Speaker 5: a defeater. The assumption is that there there's like a
Speaker 5: one size fits all. It's like, I just don't I
Speaker 5: don't understand the I don't think it's the Orthodox clips guy.
Speaker 5: But let me see if he clipped it. Ah, here
Speaker 5: it is?
Speaker 26: This?
Speaker 2: Is it? Like this is something that would need to
Speaker 2: be settled because there's a lot.
Speaker 5: Of or is this it? I think this is it
Speaker 5: debunking the donatus accusation. It may be that one. Let's
Speaker 5: see Protestantism, Tomism. I think it's this one. Like this
Speaker 5: because this Anglican dude that we had this debate with.
Speaker 5: If you want, you can go listen to the whole
Speaker 5: Anglican debate, which is about a month ago. If you
Speaker 5: used to go look at the live streams, you'll find
Speaker 5: the debate I had with the Anglican dude. They got
Speaker 5: pretty heated. I think that's the video. And I'm not
Speaker 5: just picking that because you said you get fit th Bucks.
Speaker 5: But I mean he's got this listed as uh rebaptism
Speaker 5: in the church. I actually think there was another. I
Speaker 5: think that one addresses it, but I actually think there
Speaker 5: was another one, a different clips channel anyway, Stu, what
Speaker 5: they tell you?
Speaker 30: Man?
Speaker 5: Smiley Todd?
Speaker 3: What's up?
Speaker 2: Hey? Uh?
Speaker 28: Before I say something, have your thought naming your thing
Speaker 28: like the dire situation?
Speaker 9: Nothing like that.
Speaker 8: Have your thought naming your thing like the.
Speaker 12: Dire situation, like you know, the I R.
Speaker 28: E situation or dire straits second of off uh and Yahwehism,
Speaker 28: you know, the proto religion before God I showed himself
Speaker 28: to the ancient Judaeans excess.
Speaker 5: I don't believe that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like a shira?
Speaker 28: Do you think ishira is like a typology of the vehicles,
Speaker 28: like an early concept in the subconscious, or like an
Speaker 28: early version of what humans would consider the Holy ghost,
Speaker 28: like a primordial concept before we understood.
Speaker 5: There was one God. No, and I don't believe any
Speaker 5: of that. So, squirrel in Oz.
Speaker 4: Are you there?
Speaker 5: I'm mute, squirrel in Oz there, am.
Speaker 26: How are you going?
Speaker 5: What's on your mind?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Check it out.
Speaker 26: So I was raised a Protestant and actually kind of
Speaker 26: cost go of all things and observed it. I'm an
Speaker 26: inquirer into Orthodox and I was going through prayer book
Speaker 26: and there is particular prayer in our morning prayers where
Speaker 26: it led towards the Theotokos and some of it I
Speaker 26: she just can't get.
Speaker 8: My head around to where it doesn't seem.
Speaker 26: Like you're just worshiping the theotoco and asking the Theotokos
Speaker 26: perfect us.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, she's praying for us, and I understand that objection.
Speaker 5: I did a video that you should watch on the
Speaker 5: Mary is the Arc of the Covenant, So I'd go say,
Speaker 5: watch that forty minute video and that will help, I think,
Speaker 5: to explain the biblical case for the Marian doctrines. But
Speaker 5: it's not faq knight, So look for people who disagree.
Speaker 5: So if you have a disagreement, if you're a Catholic,
Speaker 5: a Protestant, dispensation, so it's not catechumen knight like for
Speaker 5: people who disagree like the Muslim guy. It was a
Speaker 5: great Muslim interaction. Grubs McGee ten dollars. Do you see
Speaker 5: the controversy about Seraphim Holland I did not. His clip
Speaker 5: says works are necessary for salvation. It triggers the Protestants.
Speaker 5: I didn't. I'm not familiar with that clip, but I
Speaker 5: mean it's funny because like people, the probably this is
Speaker 5: gets so tripped up on word concept fallacies, and there's
Speaker 5: absolutely a sense in which, yeah, works aren't necessary for salvation.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's literally what James says. And when you
Speaker 5: look at when Paul says in Galatians five that the
Speaker 5: faith that counts is the one that worketh through love,
Speaker 5: that's Paul saying that a working faith is the only
Speaker 5: one that saves you. Therefore, works are necessary. Cletus says
Speaker 5: for fifty dollars, thank you. My issue, to be clear,
Speaker 5: is that if it's a contradiction with the theology and
Speaker 5: problem of rebaptism without addressing post baptismal sins aka, what
Speaker 5: if God asked me about my sins prior to corrective
Speaker 5: baptism and he considers my first baptism valid. I mean,
Speaker 5: You're becoming Orthodox, so God's led you to Orthodoxy. God's
Speaker 5: not the being counter trying to trick you up on
Speaker 5: the Roman Catholic baptism being valid and then now you're
Speaker 5: I mean, it just doesn't you need to be immersed
Speaker 5: in the Orthodox mindset and stop thinking in a Roman
Speaker 5: Catholic mindset. And so it's not rebaptism, it's just baptism.
Speaker 5: So it's not corrective baptism. It's literally just baptism because
Speaker 5: there's only one baptism. And I don't understand what you
Speaker 5: say contradiction with theology with Roman Catholic theology, because the
Speaker 5: Orthodox position is not that there has to be a
Speaker 5: one size fits all. The six Ecumenical Council, for example,
Speaker 5: says in certain cases people need to be rebaptized or
Speaker 5: quote just baptized because they were baptized into the Eunomian position, right,
Speaker 5: which is a single immersion that presupposes an anti Trinitarian theology.
Speaker 5: And then they talk about other situations where people can
Speaker 5: be received through profession of rejection of the heresies. So
Speaker 5: if it's a schism and everything was done correctly, but
Speaker 5: they might have been just in schism, and so the
Speaker 5: impediment to receiving the grace is removed by the profession
Speaker 5: of error or rejecting the error, there's no need to
Speaker 5: do the ritual over again, right. So that's why, for example,
Speaker 5: the Novationists and the Canons of Nicea are received without
Speaker 5: being rebaptized or revested. It's a case by case basis.
Speaker 5: There's not a one size fits all. That's what I'm
Speaker 5: trying to tell you. It's like you have a presupposition
Speaker 5: of a Roman Catholic mindset that unless Orthodoxy has a
Speaker 5: single way for every jurisdiction and every bishop to do this,
Speaker 5: then it's a quote contradiction. Economia means that there's flexibility
Speaker 5: with the interpretation and application of the canons. It's not
Speaker 5: possible to keep all the canons. They're insane, many of them.
Speaker 5: They're impossible. They're about places that no longer exist. They're
Speaker 5: for their time and for the place going. Clergy can't
Speaker 5: ride horses in ancient canons. That was because in the
Speaker 5: Middle Ages there's nobility, and clergy are not state members
Speaker 5: of the state. They're clergy, so they can't ride on horses,
Speaker 5: which is a sign of nobility. So idiots read the
Speaker 5: canons and they think to precate ride a horse because
Speaker 5: the ancient canon said it. Now both the ancient canon
Speaker 5: said you can't go pray in the synagogue. Yeah, because
Speaker 5: the principle there is not bound by time and space.
Speaker 5: This is an eternal principle. About true worship the Ten Commandments,
Speaker 5: and so you can't go and pray with the Protestants
Speaker 5: and the Roman Catholics in their churches and celebrate the
Speaker 5: Mass and the novs Orto because they don't have the
Speaker 5: Orthodox faith. So it's a violation of the moral principle
Speaker 5: that the canon expresses. That moral principle doesn't change. It
Speaker 5: never becomes the case that, oh, we can go and
Speaker 5: pray in the mosques. Now it's cool because the pope
Speaker 5: says so, and he does it. Okay, that doesn't fluctuate.
Speaker 5: The principle stays the same. Right, it's the spirit of
Speaker 5: the law, not the letter of the law that matters.
Speaker 5: So what was the spirit of the law that clergy
Speaker 5: can't ride on a horse? Is that clergy are supposed
Speaker 5: to be distinct from the civil state, because the Canons
Speaker 5: of Chalcedon, by the way, which refutes the papacy, say
Speaker 5: that no clergy can be a member of the state.
Speaker 5: And by the eleventh century the Gregorian reforms, the papacy
Speaker 5: becomes a world emperor with armies. That violates the ancient
Speaker 5: canons of Chalcedon. How do I know that that's a
Speaker 5: canon that isn't time bound and fluctuating and based on
Speaker 5: the times, because the principle is forever there that the
Speaker 5: state is not the church. That's not something that evolves
Speaker 5: and fluctuates over time. There are two distinct entities. That's
Speaker 5: the meaning of the Byzantine doubleheaded eagle. And what does
Speaker 5: Jesus say about the law? Right? What does Paul say?
Speaker 5: It's the spirit of the law, it's not the letter
Speaker 5: of the law. And what does every idiot and spurg do.
Speaker 5: They go by the letter of the law and they
Speaker 5: think that it's all like an eternal timeless Like if
Speaker 5: you go to the shows, you're an idolator.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: There's always some eighteen year old catechumen who converts and
Speaker 5: he reads the cantons and says that because it tells
Speaker 5: you you can't go to the shows. If you go
Speaker 5: to the movies, you're damned. It's not talking about the
Speaker 5: movie theater.
Speaker 4: It's talking about the ancient pagan festivals that would require
Speaker 4: you to worship the deities to go to the quote
Speaker 4: shows vol Ven Louve.
Speaker 5: You're not saved by faith alone. The Bible never says
Speaker 5: you're saved by faith alone. It says saved by faith
Speaker 5: apart from the works of the Jewish law. You added
Speaker 5: the faith alone part. In fact, you are not saved
Speaker 5: by faith alone. Paul says that you're saved by faith
Speaker 5: that works in love. A working faith keeping the commandments
Speaker 5: of love is what saves you.
Speaker 4: Are you there? Do you want to talk or not? Okay,
Speaker 4: we're back to Cornelius.
Speaker 8: Hello, Yeah, thank you, and excuse my bad English.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if it's up to debate, and I.
Speaker 24: Don't know if we even disagree, so I'd have to elaborate.
Speaker 24: I'm also the Christian and disagree with the philosophical foundation
Speaker 24: of libertarianism.
Speaker 8: Yet I don't disagree with the.
Speaker 24: Conclusions, especially the economic conclusions like ownership of the body
Speaker 24: and of your own body, and therefore.
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 5: Vin Low, what's up?
Speaker 42: Yeah, what do you think is the.
Speaker 2: Most distinct way of.
Speaker 28: Of like getting out of the what's it called Coptic Church? Like,
Speaker 28: what's the strongest argument to why it's a false heresy?
Speaker 5: Maybe the two Letters of cyrilta sixth Census, which admits
Speaker 5: that he has a human nature after the resurrection.
Speaker 28: H Yeah, because I feel like a lot of Coptic
Speaker 28: apologetics is that we have the same funny hats as
Speaker 28: you do, so we're equally true, if not more so.
Speaker 28: It's more obsessed with the aesthetics of it than the
Speaker 28: actual theology of it.
Speaker 5: Well, it's funny because they're they're basically losing their iconographic tradition.
Speaker 5: So if they're going to be obsessed with aesthetics, they
Speaker 5: should have maintained the iconographic tradition. But a lot of
Speaker 5: those churches have a giant TV screen. You got a
Speaker 5: Armenian Orthodox church so called, and you'll find giant TV
Speaker 5: screens within in the sanctuary, in the service. So it's
Speaker 5: hard to take that very seriously when you've got big TV,
Speaker 5: like it's like a sports bar in there with a
Speaker 5: bunch of TV screens. I remember when Rouche was leaving
Speaker 5: Armenian Orthodoxy, he said he couldn't believe that there's all
Speaker 5: these giant TV screens in there in the surface. So
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, you kind of have to look at
Speaker 5: the theology. You can't solve it by like, you know,
Speaker 5: who's got the more cool aesthetic, And of course Coptics
Speaker 5: don't have a cool aesthetic, So sorry, I don't see
Speaker 5: anybody else, so there's no more questions. I don't see
Speaker 5: anymore super chats. Maybe we'll call it a night, Big Chunk,
Speaker 5: Why did God make the world? Why didn't God make
Speaker 5: the world smaller in size so then everyone could hear
Speaker 5: the gospel? That's really funny, dude, Van five dollars funds
Speaker 5: towards your plane ticket to Nashville so that you can
Speaker 5: host an IRL event or do you stand up at Zany's.
Speaker 5: I don't think Zanies is gonna invite me anytime soon,
Speaker 5: but people thought my crowd work at the Horror Convention
Speaker 5: was pretty funny. I wish that I'd done some crowd
Speaker 5: work with the Horror Convention people. I could have really
Speaker 5: ripped on them. They might have thrown me out, though,
Speaker 5: because I don't I don't know if. I don't know
Speaker 5: if they could take I just don't know how the
Speaker 5: bunch of horror weirdos are going to take my jokes.
Speaker 5: But it would be fun to do an event in Nashville. Again.
Speaker 5: Appreciate that vein so hybe, she's.
Speaker 11: So high.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 10: I just wanted to say, do you think that the
Speaker 10: ethan Orthodox in the Oriental Orthodox are closer to.
Speaker 2: Reunification.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean maybe because I.
Speaker 2: Do believe that both churches have.
Speaker 10: Affirmed the same Christology no in the nineties, I believe,
Speaker 10: if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5: I mean, all of these ecumenical gatherings where we all
Speaker 5: get together and pretend we're saying the same thing, they
Speaker 5: don't really accomplish much. I don't really keep up with
Speaker 5: that kind of stuff. Maybe they're moving in the right
Speaker 5: direction towards us, or it's all just kind of everybody
Speaker 5: holding hands and singing combine and pretending that we have
Speaker 5: the same theology. I don't know. I want to make
Speaker 5: sure I didn't miss the super chatus as I missed
Speaker 5: his earlier Big Chuck. I think, didn't you say the
Speaker 5: same joke earlier? Because I did see that joke. Maybe
Speaker 5: I just didn't read the joke because it was so bad.
Speaker 5: I guess I just missed it.
Speaker 4: But I mean, bro, you're throwing down dollars super chats,
Speaker 4: which dollar's not even worth.
Speaker 5: A dollar anymore. Dollar's worth like sixty cents, So basically
Speaker 5: you're throwing a sixty cents super chat. But I appreciate
Speaker 5: it better than a no sense super chat. There's still
Speaker 5: eighty people here. No one has a disagreement. We had
Speaker 5: one feisty Muslim who said all I has created attributes
Speaker 5: and then he walked it back. I was like, oops,
Speaker 5: eighty people, no one disagrees. I'm gonna assume everybody has
Speaker 5: everything correct. Nobody. Father Deacon missed out on this one.
Speaker 5: He missed. What was that one guy saying that he
Speaker 5: spoke to Jesus and that Jesus was going to give
Speaker 5: everyone bread. That dude, that dude was. That dude was
Speaker 5: tripping me out. Tallahose Patriot, Hey, jam in my car
Speaker 5: right now. Are you able to hear me? Yes, sir, awesome? Yeah.
Speaker 46: So I I was baptized Russian Orthodox as an infant.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 46: Spent most of my life in Protestant churches for some
Speaker 46: like complicated family reasons.
Speaker 2: And I've been in a.
Speaker 46: MacArthur ask church in Tallahassee the past handful of years.
Speaker 46: But I'm heavily exploring Orthodoxy and your uh, you know
Speaker 46: work and advocacy has been very impactful on that, along
Speaker 46: with some of the you know ad on accounts like
Speaker 46: Orthodox Luigi and you know others on here. But I
Speaker 46: wanted to ask, and I know you've got to talk
Speaker 46: about this like before. I mean, probably a lot of
Speaker 46: times that you could you asked us a bunch, But
Speaker 46: I feel like one thing I've kind of wrestled with
Speaker 46: as to like if I was to go, like I guess,
Speaker 46: go full Orthodox or come back into the church or
Speaker 46: however you want to work that, you know, like how
Speaker 46: I would then view you know, Protestant Christians, reform Christian
Speaker 46: et cetera. Because I feel like I've read conflicting on that.
Speaker 46: You know, like I've read some Orthodox Church to say, well,
Speaker 46: you know, I'm not going to say that they're not saved,
Speaker 46: but they're not in the fullness of biblical truth. But
Speaker 46: then I know there's some Orthodox hardcore with soteiology, So like,
Speaker 46: what would you say about that?
Speaker 5: I mean, again, I can't judge an individual person in
Speaker 5: terms of their ultimate destiny. But what we can say
Speaker 5: is what we're told to say by the Church, which
Speaker 5: is that outside the Church, you're outside the ark. And
Speaker 5: you're not just outside the arc, you're also in a
Speaker 5: situation professing heterodox ideas. There's no Christology outside the Orthodox Church.
Speaker 5: That's the Orthodox Christology. There's no uncreated grace in Protestants
Speaker 5: pseudo sacraments. In fact, Protestants aren't even called a church
Speaker 5: in the Canons. They're called a parachurch because they don't
Speaker 5: even have apisotic succession. So you don't even have what's
Speaker 5: necessary to have a quote church, because the church built
Speaker 5: on the foundation stones of the apostles. As Ephesian says,
Speaker 5: that means the succession of the bishops in the church.
Speaker 5: So while there may be sincere people in Protestanism, and
Speaker 5: the Holy Spirit is definitely working in people's hearts to
Speaker 5: bring them to Orthodoxy, we're not in any position to say, well,
Speaker 5: the sufficient means of grace are in Protestantism. If anyone
Speaker 5: was saved in quote Protestantism, it's in spite of Protestantism,
Speaker 5: and it's because they're united to the mystical body of
Speaker 5: the Church, which is the Orthodox Church. It's not because
Speaker 5: of anything to do with quote Protestantism, because it's the
Speaker 5: Church is the arc. So and again, when we look
Speaker 5: at the distinctives of Protestantism, what do we find in
Speaker 5: the first thousand years of Christianity that have the distinctives
Speaker 5: of Protestantism. All the heretical sects, the Montanists, the Massallians,
Speaker 5: the Econoclasts, the Pallagians. I mean, all of these different
Speaker 5: positions that many, many Protestant groups hold. We find that.
Speaker 5: I'm not talking about John MacArthur. I know John MacArthur
Speaker 5: wouldn't be a Pelagian. I'm just saying that, you know,
Speaker 5: we look at these different groups. There are Pellagian Protestant groups,
Speaker 5: there's Unitarian Protestant groups, there's anti Trinitarian Protestant groups, there's
Speaker 5: you know, you name it. Those are all the ancient heresies.
Speaker 5: So it's like saying, there's nice people in the ancient heresies.
Speaker 5: So like, is it okay if they just stay in
Speaker 5: the ancient heresies? No, I'm not. I know you're not
Speaker 5: saying that. I'm just saying, like, I can't sit here
Speaker 5: and tell individual people you're going to hell, you're going
Speaker 5: to hell, you're going to hell, you're going to help.
Speaker 5: That's not what we're told to do. Paul says, what
Speaker 5: do I have to do with judging those that are without?
Speaker 5: We judge those that are within, but we tell them
Speaker 5: to come in, and whether they do or don't is
Speaker 5: they're up to them. Yo yo, yo, five dollars, I
Speaker 5: watch your Holy Mountain review today? Can you recommend other
Speaker 5: titles to watch? I don't recommend you watch Holy Mountain
Speaker 5: that the movie is gross and blasphemous because it's such
Speaker 5: an important, so called, you know, a cult film. We
Speaker 5: watched it a few years ago and it's kind of
Speaker 5: a The ending was kind of anti clembactict. It did
Speaker 5: have a couple of interesting insights into like the cooming
Speaker 5: smart cities if you remember that section in the in
Speaker 5: the video, and the sex bots is hinted at. So
Speaker 5: there's some pretty wild, sort of predictive stuff in there,
Speaker 5: kind of like Metropolis from Fritz Lang. But I mean,
Speaker 5: if you're looking for weird occult movies that have predictive elements,
Speaker 5: I just did a talk on this called Satanic Cinema,
Speaker 5: and I listed a ton of movies that would be
Speaker 5: kind of in that vein of having predictive elements, and
Speaker 5: first one that comes to mind will being Metropolis. But
Speaker 5: I don't recommend any of the any job Erowski's films
Speaker 5: are just gross and blasphemous. All right, Well, I don't
Speaker 5: see anybody else, so thank you guys. It was a
Speaker 5: lot of fun tonight, just getting ready for church tomorrow. Everybody.
Speaker 5: Hopefully you can make it out to church and everybody
Speaker 5: have a good night. Oh by the way, head on
Speaker 5: over to Chalk dot com. I can't, I can't forget
Speaker 5: our beloved show sponsor right here. Head over to the website.
Speaker 5: You can get signed copies of the books, and you'll
Speaker 5: notice the link to Chalk dot com right here. Head
Speaker 5: on over here and get fifty forty four percent off
Speaker 5: this performance stack by using the promo code Jay four
Speaker 5: four Life jay four four l I f E and
Speaker 5: you'll get forty four percent off that performance stack that
Speaker 5: includes the Action two point zero, that super super super
Speaker 5: powerful Chad Mode pre work out be careful with that
Speaker 5: is so powerful, and the tong Catilee again also very powerful.
Speaker 5: So take these in moderation. If I took two Tonkats
Speaker 5: one day and I was like, my heart was like fluttering,
Speaker 5: I was up all night. So if you want to
Speaker 5: get sleep, don't take a bunch of either Chad Mode
Speaker 5: or Toncat late at night.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 5: The ingredients are not toxic. It's all super pure, super
Speaker 5: stringent on their criteria for what ingredients they use. Over
Speaker 5: at Chalk, I was just talking to Seaton yesterday. We
Speaker 5: were getting into some of these products, and I think
Speaker 5: that he's very happy with what we're doing over here.
Speaker 5: Long time sponsor. I think we're going on almost maybe
Speaker 5: five years now, four or five years and a great company,
Speaker 5: great product, super super awesome based dudes over there, so
Speaker 5: support good companies like Chalk dot Com by getting those
Speaker 5: products at a discount. Jay four for la f he
Speaker 5: used that promo code. You can cancel it any time,
Speaker 5: by the way, and it's not just for dudes. There's
Speaker 5: also a female vitality sack here and you don't have
Speaker 5: to buy the packs. You can buy the individual products
Speaker 5: if you want the shie Legit great for your mood regulation.
Speaker 5: If you're one of the ladies for Focus Irishmalle. It
Speaker 5: is also great for that. A lot of minerals that
Speaker 5: are missing in our typical American diet. You can find
Speaker 5: that things like Oshawa Ganda. You can find that UH
Speaker 5: seven Wonders is great for that. Chalk Daily is great
Speaker 5: for that. Head on over to Chalk dot com and
Speaker 5: use that promo code j A y four four l
Speaker 5: I f E j A y four four