WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:08.039 Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Today, 2 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.800 I want to welcome back to the show, Frank Jacob. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.759 He's an award winning international filmmaker, visual artists, director, and composer. 4 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:21.760 He has explored many aspects of the Secret Space Program, consciousness, 5 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:25.399 and energy through his films. Frank, welcome back. How are 6 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:25.839 you doing. 7 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.800 Nice to have a nice to be back. Thanks a lot, 8 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:31.440 good to see you. 9 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:34.719 Yes, it's great to see you. Like I was talking 10 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.600 to you before, it's been I think almost two years 11 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:41.280 since you've been on. We live in a really different world, 12 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.520 a really different reality than we last spoke up. Is down, 13 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.960 black is white, masks, save lives, sciences, religion, and that 14 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.320 really doesn't even begin to describe the dystopian future we're 15 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:58.560 really headed towards. Frank, since twenty twenty, tell us a 16 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.560 little bit about how everything has been for you and 17 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:05.560 what are your thoughts on where we're headed as a society. 18 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:12.760 Well, I guess the first thing I would have to 19 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:16.480 say about what I sort of witnessed and what we 20 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:20.760 all witnessed in twenty twenty was that I don't think 21 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:25.680 anybody really saw it coming. I mean, there's been a 22 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:30.920 lot of prophecies. There's been a lot of predictions, you know, 23 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:35.760 ever since the Harmonic convergence in nineteen eighty seven and 24 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:37.920 then you know, nineteen ninety nine and y two k 25 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.359 there's always been these apocalyptic scenarios that have been talked about, 26 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.439 but I don't think anyone really imagined things happening quite 27 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:49.000 on the scale that they happened just about two years ago, 28 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:53.560 where really, in a sense, it became clear to all 29 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.640 those people who ever doubted that a very small group 30 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:03.079 of people could control role the minds and steer society, 31 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.519 the billions and billions of people in society to the 32 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.520 level that they've been doing. So. I don't think you 33 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:11.919 can really give any more doubt to the idea that 34 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:16.199 there is the potential for an elite whatever you want 35 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:18.479 to call them, I mean, just call them the Newsmakers then, 36 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.400 or call them the Faucis and Trumps and Gates of 37 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:24.159 the world. But there really can no longer be any 38 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.080 doubt at all that such people have the power to 39 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:33.439 completely lead society around by the nose, and you know, 40 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:38.560 just stupefy them and set them into masses of fear 41 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.639 so that they allow themselves to be controlled to the 42 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.080 level that we've seen happen in the last year. I mean, 43 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:50.719 it's just unprecedented that that really globally, you know, I 44 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.360 think I think there's over one hundred and eighty countries 45 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.800 in the world, and most of those countries never really 46 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.360 associate or talk to each other or get together agree 47 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:02.319 on things. There's you know, meetings where they get they 48 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:06.439 get together for gat treaties and try to make arrangements. 49 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.680 On climate change is a famous one, a popular one, 50 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:12.319 but they never really get it happening. But in this 51 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.680 one case, you know, and never before a situation, not 52 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:18.680 only did they do that, but they did that within 53 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:22.159 a record breaking time of probably less than thirty days. 54 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.400 So you got to hand it to those people that 55 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.719 have been planning this. They've done really quite an amazing job, 56 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:33.800 and they've really proven themselves to be very very powerful 57 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:37.000 in that sense. And we the people, although you know, 58 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.879 the people, the masses of people really have the power 59 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.759 and give the power to those that are taking it. 60 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.199 We were still waiting for that one big event that 61 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:51.520 will topple it and shift it once and for all 62 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:56.120 and lead us into kind of that utopian society everyone's 63 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.240 always hoping for and dreaming about. 64 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.159 Yeah, man, and you hit on a bunch of the 65 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:04.520 talking points that I really want to get to tonight. 66 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.879 First thing is how fear is driving people, and it's 67 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.520 driving people mad. People that I've known for years and 68 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:16.920 thought we're smart and good friends have the only thing 69 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:18.639 I can say is turned to the dark side and 70 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:23.639 just you know, blindly turned their mind and eyes towards 71 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.279 facts and science and reality and that you know, just 72 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.879 going along with what they're hearing on the news and media. 73 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.839 And like I said, these are people that I thought 74 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:39.160 were smart people. There's been a mass campaign and an 75 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:43.480 operation to brainwash people, and it's very successful in many ways. 76 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.120 And it's kind of like a polarizing event. We're seeing 77 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:50.000 consciousness is rising on some aspects and then it's it's 78 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.959 falling in others, and it's tearing people apart. But that's 79 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.040 also an intentional part of what we're seeing. This division. 80 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.439 Are you seeing this same thing around people around you 81 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.079 that you've known for years and you would thought would 82 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:05.959 be a little bit smarter than they are, just kind 83 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.439 of giving into fear and giving into what's going on. 84 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.079 Well, for the most part, in the last i'd say 85 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.199 fifteen years, I've pretty much sort of pulled away from 86 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:23.600 the types of people that sort of accept that regular 87 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.240 media narrative that comes out of the box. In fact, 88 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.680 many of my friends don't even have a television set. 89 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:34.519 So but I would have to say that generally, you know, 90 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.480 there's that you're not immune to it because you know, 91 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:42.160 everybody knows somebody who knows somebody, and those people are 92 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:47.000 definitely drawing the lines. So I've noticed that what used 93 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:49.680 to be a comfortable gray zone, that many of the 94 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:53.399 people who are busy trying to operate in the world 95 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:55.959 of disclosure and trying to bring information out into the 96 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.240 world have been safely under this blanket of grays zone, 97 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:04.560 been operating under that that's gone. It's it's now just 98 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.879 you're this way, or you're with us, or you're not 99 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:14.199 with us. And unfortunately, the with us group, the dynamic, 100 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.439 the numbers, the ratio is just astounding because obviously there's 101 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:22.519 far far more, far far more people who have have 102 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:28.319 adopted the the safe or let's just say herd mentality 103 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.120 of the majority. Then there are those who are still 104 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:35.360 resisting and trying to now not operate in the gray zone, 105 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:39.120 but standing their truth out there for everyone to see. 106 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:43.360 So you've become you know, people that are really doing 107 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.680 that risking that are becoming targets like they never were before. 108 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.759 And so you're seeing a lot of you know, a 109 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:54.839 lot of yeah, just like edgy ness in the world, 110 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.759 a lot of you know, like you could be standing 111 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.279 in a grocery store and somebody could turn around at 112 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.079 you and just snark at you like, you know, like 113 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:05.600 you're just like that never used to happen, right, So 114 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.879 that kind of stuff is definitely going on, and it's 115 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.279 it is true. It's sad to see that that there 116 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:15.560 are people that you know, that we have in all 117 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.600 of us in our circles that for what, for whatever 118 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:23.279 reason you know, they have to to do it, have 119 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:26.040 had to go their way. And you know, I think 120 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.560 we're all sort of out and involved in a very 121 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:33.800 big experiment. We've entered unchartered territory. And I'm not one 122 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.199 to be a judge of that. And anyone who's decided 123 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:39.560 to go whatever way they've gone, it's their decision. I 124 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.319 fully respect that because I don't know the answers either. 125 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:45.600 I've seen a lot of signs and I'm seeing a 126 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:47.839 lot of the things that I've been finding in the 127 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.959 history books that were talked about over one hundred and 128 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:55.040 fifty years ago now sort of growing fruit or bearing fruits. 129 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:58.839 So it's no surprise, but you know, like I said, 130 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.519 it's like an experiment. So I don't think any of 131 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:07.439 us can really be sure to what extent it's gonna go. 132 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.879 I mean, I'm sure you've heard of a lot of 133 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:16.480 these scenarios where people are talking about transhumanism and the 134 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:19.519 start of a new society. And of course, you know, 135 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.040 we have people like Klaus Schwab, you know, with quotes 136 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.360 out there saying that they needed a pandemic to be 137 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.319 able to push their agenda finally to the limit that 138 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:30.800 they've wanted to push it. But there's always this unknown 139 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.559 factor of the human spirit which nobody can really put 140 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.440 a finger on. And as much as we'd like to 141 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:42.440 think ourselves as flesh and bone, blood bodies, there is 142 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:45.240 an aspect of ourselves we're learning about more and more 143 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.679 that seems to indicate we aren't physical bodies, but actually 144 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:53.120 we sort of exist outside of physicality. So you know, 145 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:56.440 I think there's a few surprises in store still for us. 146 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.440 Yeah, I would, I would hope so, because I think 147 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:06.039 we're entering the most critical time in our modern history, 148 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.879 at least what we're gonna witness in our lives. And 149 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.080 we've already reached a point to where there's no turning around. 150 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:15.279 And I'm wondering if there is even any middle ground 151 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.279 that people can take anymore. You know, are they're probably 152 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:21.200 gonna have to take a side eventually, you know, you 153 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.600 won't be able to just stand by and watch both 154 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:26.039 sides do get out. I don't know, what do you 155 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:27.919 think you think there is any way to take any 156 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:29.360 middle ground at this point? 157 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:31.360 No, I don't think so. I think you have to 158 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.000 be able to stand your ground, and I think you 159 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.960 have to be prepared to go to the distance whatever 160 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.759 that means. I mean, it's for me not inconceivable that 161 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:44.080 they would start erecting you know, green zones or safe 162 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.799 zones or yellow zones or whatever they're gonna call them. 163 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:50.480 But you're gonna they're gonna set up these areas. They're 164 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.039 gonna say, okay, well, those people who are not gonna, 165 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:56.320 you know, comply with us, you know, they're probably gonna 166 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.320 have to go in those zones and because you know, 167 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.519 they're a danger, and and that's going to be critical 168 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:03.639 for a lot of people. I think the people that 169 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:05.279 are going to be the hardest hit of the people 170 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:08.879 that have worked and saved and earned and try to 171 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:12.559 put something aside or raised families or built everything up 172 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.559 to a certain point they're going to have and that 173 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.480 might lose that that's going to be probably the most 174 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:22.000 critical point for those people. And it'll really drive home that, 175 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:25.799 you know that that's sort of famous saying be in 176 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:27.720 the world, but not of the world, you know, and 177 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:31.799 if you've been of the world to it'll show to 178 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.480 the extent that you're of the world. I think will 179 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.200 be the measure of pain that you're going to have 180 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.159 to go through to stand your ground, and if that 181 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:42.399 means you have to lose everything, then it'll be the 182 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:45.679 real test of whether you are or not. And I 183 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:47.519 think that's when we're going to really see a lot 184 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:50.840 of that activity that's going to we're not even you know, 185 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:54.320 seeing the fringes of where it could really go to 186 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:55.039 at this point. 187 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:59.639 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And a really important 188 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.919 as to understand is how much of our history and 189 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:09.279 the history of operations that we're seeing right now, operations 190 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.559 like that, how often those have occurred, and how false 191 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.360 The history we've been told through our history books in 192 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:22.840 academia really is major events in history, I feel we're 193 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:29.000 mostly planned, especially when you look at the major events 194 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:32.200 that change the course of history, say, for example jfk 195 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:36.879 assassination nine to eleven. I believe that major events like 196 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:40.919 that that we that got into the populace's consciousness in 197 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:44.320 a way that changed everything, had a level of planning 198 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.799 to them. They were planned to change the course of society. 199 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.360 False flags, even major TV events putting people in certain 200 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:55.759 positions of power. All these things were kind of like 201 00:11:55.919 --> 00:12:00.519 culture creation tools to change the course and kind of 202 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:05.720 build upon what these people in charge, these elites want 203 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.440 to be their paradise. Is that something you'd agree with? 204 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:13.080 Yeah, I would say that that's pretty much. That's pretty 205 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.559 much where it's going. It's interesting. There are some quotes 206 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.279 something I read again recently the other day, even Franklin D. 207 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.480 Roosevelt said, nothing in politics happens by accident. If anything 208 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.480 you see happening out there is going on, you can 209 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.480 be sure in politics that it's been long in the planning. 210 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:34.879 So and he would be one to know, because he 211 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.200 was very much involved in the planning of the Second 212 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.080 World War. So you know, this is another part of 213 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.440 history which is going to eventually become you know, going 214 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:46.559 to get flushed out, and it's going to come out 215 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.480 in the open. You know. We're starting to see, you know, 216 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.240 the bits of truth coming out about things like Pearl Harbor, 217 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:55.960 but the extent to which Roosevelt was involved in planning 218 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.639 the destruction of the world really in the Second World 219 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.200 War is yet to come to the surface. But I 220 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.200 think that's the good thing about what we're going through, 221 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.440 because we're going to see a great kind of a 222 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.879 period where the truth is going to emerge, and it 223 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.840 doesn't matter how much the elites have tried to suppress 224 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.320 that truth and stamp it underground. The truth is kind 225 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.720 of like weeds. You know that weeds are kind of 226 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:22.799 nasty for those people who ever tried to have a 227 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.279 green garden or a green lawn. You know that the 228 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.639 weeds will continue to come up, and the truth is 229 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:30.759 like weeds, you know. And I think a lot of 230 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:38.120 the insiders that were never really you know, part of 231 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:43.440 the planner groups who are having second thoughts would start 232 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.200 come start to come forward. And we've seen that in 233 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.320 the past already, and we're seeing it now even more. 234 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.639 I think there's going to be events where someone is 235 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.240 going to come forward, and I'm sure you've read a 236 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.519 lot recently and seed a lot where there's you know, 237 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:02.559 even people that were part of the career of vaccines 238 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:06.879 or a part of the creation of plannings in the world, 239 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.480 like old Global Planning CDC and things like that are 240 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.679 coming forward because they've had enough. You know. It's interesting. 241 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.919 There's a quote from Churchill in nineteen sixty that said 242 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.200 Germany's unforgivable crime before World War Two was its attempt 243 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.919 to loosen its economy out of the world trade system 244 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.080 and to build up an independent exchange system from which 245 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.080 the World Finance couldn't profit anymore. We butchered the wrong pig. 246 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.679 And that's amazing coming for someone like Churchill, because he 247 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.360 was really like one of the most vindictive actors in 248 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.559 the Second World War. And without Churchill, I'd say it's 249 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.000 safe to say we never would have had the destruction 250 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.399 in the war that we ever did. And in fact, 251 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.799 it's easy to pint it all in germans and on Hitler, 252 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.279 but everything that I've been learning in the history books 253 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.080 over here in Germany indicate quite the opposite was going on, 254 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.440 that perhaps Germany was one of the last resistances to 255 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.039 this sort of force of evil that has now reached 256 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.159 its zenith, and they've managed to turn the history books 257 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.120 in their favor and all, you know, and put out 258 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:07.159 the headlines and the films and all that to try 259 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.960 and you know, put their story out there. But like 260 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.679 I was saying to you earlier, what we're seeing with 261 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.200 COVID is that, you know, there is a possibility that 262 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.480 a small group of people in control of politics and 263 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:22.080 the media, global elites with powerful resources and financial resources, 264 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.759 can actually change the world narrative and send us off 265 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.440 on a new timeline unbeknownst to society, because most people 266 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.879 never really even believe this stuff would happen. They would 267 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:34.440 never believe in the wildest dreams, because we all just 268 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:38.480 want peace, happiness, prosperity, and you know, I don't think 269 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.320 anyone wants war with any other nation. 270 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.600 Yeah, you're absolutely right. And being in the position I 271 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.840 am to have so many wonderful guests like yourself and 272 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.000 real historians that have talked about, just like you said, 273 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:57.360 world War two and events surrounding, and man, it is 274 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.759 not like anything that we've learned, you know, you've learned 275 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:05.000 in the United States history books or from modern academia, 276 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.919 and you're right, a lot of aspects show that, you know, 277 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.320 it's not like we're told. Things may have been completely opposite. 278 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.879 Germany may have been a resistance against some of the 279 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.919 tyranny that we're seeing right now, but it was kind 280 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.639 of turned around. I'm not saying at all that Hitler 281 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.480 was a good guy or anything like that. I have 282 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.600 no idea, but either way, I'm sure he wasn't you know, 283 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.440 nobody in that position power usually is. But he may 284 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.000 not been of what exactly he was portrayed to be. 285 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:38.360 And that's the whole point about our hidden history is 286 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:43.039 we don't know and everything that we've learned, the more 287 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.240 you look into it, the more false and tweaked it's become. 288 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.679 Well, yeah, exactly, and that's it, I mean, and that's 289 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.919 a very dangerous one. People really have a great fear 290 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:58.360 of the whole Hitler regime and the NAS and Germany, 291 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.360 and to discuss it in terms of like adults, like hey, 292 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.960 let's look at that scenario is very frightening for many people. 293 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.559 I mean, look at how afraid they are of a 294 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:15.839 little you know, particle that that's supposedly lurking behind every corner. 295 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.319 I mean, it's always the hidden boogey man. 296 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.720 But it's yeah, that's it. And the thing is the 297 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.480 problem is that people don't they don't understand the history. 298 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.720 They don't understand what led up to Hitler's rise in 299 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.720 the first place. They don't know that, they don't know 300 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.559 the previous thirty years, so they don't understand, you know, 301 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.960 that there was possible, that there was a resistance for us, 302 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.039 and that that resistance, like there's a film called I 303 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.039 don't know if you know what, it's called Braveheart and 304 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.519 with mel Gibson, you know, and it's it's in a 305 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.079 way that's kind of the story of Germany and Hitler, 306 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:53.440 and Hitler went around to raise the awareness of the people, 307 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.200 and he was so popular that it was like, you know, 308 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.680 you look at the pictures of him out there, he 309 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.400 didn't have any glass around on his car. You know, 310 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.720 they could have pecked him off at any time. He 311 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.759 was just really like and this is something they will 312 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.400 never portray in those in those films and newspaper headlines. 313 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:12.400 And I've been able to dig it up and I'm 314 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.519 fortunate enough to get to know some people that are 315 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.839 still living, that are in their nineties that actually personally 316 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:22.599 we're there and and it's believe me, Chris, it's a 317 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.200 completely different story. So but you know, but you don't 318 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.119 have to go that way, because go that way, and 319 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:29.960 we don't have to go deep into it here because 320 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.240 I think, like I said, you know, it's going to 321 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.519 freak a lot of people out from. 322 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:33.000 Oh yeah, a lot. 323 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.039 I agree, a lot of people aren't ready. But I 324 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:37.680 know exactly where you know some of these facts that 325 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.680 you're probably going to go into. And it's shocking how 326 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:44.559 different history has been twisted. And it's not only World 327 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.359 War Two, it's it's everything. It's you know, the deeper 328 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.319 you look in anything that's really important about our history 329 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.079 and those in power. And you know, the saying the 330 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.119 victor writes rewrites history, it's true. 331 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.599 Yeah, yeah, we have you know, we don't have to 332 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.799 even look at the last I mean, for me, it's 333 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.079 been interesting because I've moved over here and I've began 334 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.119 to look at that because I'm right there in the 335 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:12.200 backyard of it. But that's only the recent history, the 336 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.480 last one hundred years. But if you go back much further, 337 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.359 of course, you can see, you know that there's been 338 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:24.160 this seed of distortion that has prevailed in cycles all 339 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:28.079 through thousands and thousands of years. And another interesting aspect 340 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.359 to it that I've become aware of is, you know, 341 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.640 we've been working with ever since we did Solo Revolution, 342 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:39.920 we've been working very frequently with the German biophysicist Teter Brewers, 343 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:44.079 and he has been sharing a lot of interesting information 344 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.799 about the rise and fall of civilizations relative to the 345 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:53.359 forces of the cosmos. Because he's a microbio he's a biophysicist, 346 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.119 so he studies it from biology and and kind of 347 00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:59.759 like it, looks at the physics of it, the quantum, 348 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.440 and looks at models of quantum physics, and looks at 349 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.839 sun cycles for example. And it's very interesting to see 350 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.519 the cycles of sun and the cycles of the cosmos 351 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.960 related to cosmic radiation and how it has a direct 352 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:20.160 parallel to the rise and then the total fall of civilizations. 353 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.279 So there's another aspect playing into it as well. It's 354 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.799 not just that there's this group of evil people out there. 355 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.200 You could say that these elitists that are up there 356 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.960 are just the ones, the first ones to be affected 357 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:36.000 by the desire to have this this negative aspect of control. 358 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.640 I mean, there's nothing wrong with control. You know, every 359 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.960 athlete has to have control of their body if they 360 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.480 want to do the best that they possibly can. And 361 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.119 every chess player has to have control of their mind 362 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.000 and control of their thoughts. And these things are not 363 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.880 bad in themselves, just like money is not bad in itself. 364 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.880 It's it's the use of money to enslave people. It's 365 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.359 the use of information to be able to control others, 366 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.640 to have power over others. That's the problem. And that 367 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.960 seems to be something that we as a race and 368 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:09.759 as a civilization on Earth, as humans. Let's just say, 369 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.440 I mean, we all know that more and more information 370 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:16.160 is emerging to make it clear that there's another faction 371 00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:19.119 of beings around us. Let's call them extraterrestrials, if you want. 372 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.519 Our interterrestrials that have dealt with this stuff. But everything 373 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:25.039 that we've heard from them and the messages from them 374 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.079 indicate that they've all gone through this cycle as well. 375 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.759 And this is what we're going through right now. This 376 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:35.519 critical point is something which is happening all over the universe, 377 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.960 and I think it's something every civilization has to go 378 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.680 through and you go through it enough cycles of time 379 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:46.319 until you finally get it, and hopefully, hopefully this time 380 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.960 won't end in our destruction. We won't go back to 381 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.880 the Stone Age or destroy everything, or we won't manifest 382 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.200 the worst nightmare, which is to turn us into a 383 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:02.720 transhumanistic society of robots, like David Iike's been talking about recently. 384 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.680 I mean, let's hope that that doesn't come to being right. 385 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:09.880 Yeah, definitely. That's one of the aspects that I wanted 386 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.640 to talk about because we see pieces of that agenda 387 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:18.200 popping out here and there, especially with the desire for 388 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.960 science to combine human biology with technology make it easier 389 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.799 for us to access things through our own bodies, you know, 390 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.720 turn ourselves into garage door openers or whatever. But there's 391 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.400 a larger, more long term agenda that people don't kind 392 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:39.160 of see, is that they are trying to make us 393 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:44.079 more materialistic, less spiritual, more dependent on the physical or 394 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.720 dependent on technology, and we can be replaced or possibly 395 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:53.599 even uploaded into the future, uploaded with our consciousness. 396 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.279 Who knows, well, that's where they're going. And I think 397 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:01.720 they've made that very clear that the people that are 398 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.920 working on the cutting edge of artificial intelligence. They foresee 399 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:11.200 that you know, event horizon where there will be that moment, 400 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.440 and I believe personally that it's already happened. But you know, 401 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.200 if we just follow the conventional news, you know, and 402 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.000 the conventional stories, they're projecting it to be somewhere in 403 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.519 the future, in the near future now, like sci fi 404 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.519 films are a good indication of message bringers to sort 405 00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:30.960 of train our minds toward where they want us to 406 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.839 think in terms of time frames, although they're already working 407 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.799 with the technology in my opinion, but the idea is 408 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:41.559 that I think that those who are in control of 409 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.759 that or let's just say not in control of that technology, 410 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.359 have seen where it's going and they know that it's 411 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.200 inevitable that a machine will as a sentient being, turn 412 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:58.960 around one day and face humans and be in a 413 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:01.880 point where they will have to decide are these people 414 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.680 ones that we want to form a civilization with or 415 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.599 are they a threat to our civilization or are they 416 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:14.680 a threat to indirectly our civilization because they're a threat 417 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.240 to the planet by gobbling up all the resources we 418 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.880 will need to be able to reproduce and make ourselves 419 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.880 replicated they will be that moment. And I think the 420 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:27.680 people that are like Elon Musk is another one that 421 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:31.440 comes to mind, who's been busy trying to create wires 422 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.480 that enter and tap into our brains. Why because they 423 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:38.319 want us to be able to compete with the hyper 424 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:43.359 speeds that you know, the processors in these artificial intelligence 425 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.920 beings are going to have, which are we can't compete 426 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:51.359 with that. I mean, we don't have at our access 427 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:56.319 within milliseconds the entire library of let's just say Wikipedia, 428 00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.559 as much as that's just a very limited form of 429 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.519 information and highly controlled too, but let's you know, let's 430 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.079 just be honest. I mean, when you sit at your 431 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.559 computer and you want to find out something, one of 432 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.039 the sources you go to is Wikipedia, because let's just 433 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:13.359 see what they say and boom, there's your answer. How 434 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.440 long does it take a second as long as your 435 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:19.720 server brings the information. Our human brains don't work that way. 436 00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:24.079 And I think in our materialistic society that we have now, 437 00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.599 we tend to place very high value on the computing 438 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.599 power of such devices because you know, we forget things, 439 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:34.839 we don't know things. But by doing that, we're forgetting 440 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:38.119 that we as beings have other capabilities, and our brains 441 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:43.960 and our being ness has other aspects to it which 442 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.279 a machine will never have. And our society has just 443 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:50.079 not reached the point where it really fully respects and 444 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.359 understands that it's not really mature to the point where 445 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:59.240 it understands we as sentient beings transcend the physical dimension, 446 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:02.160 and a machine will always be limited to the bubble 447 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.119 of three D that we've created it within, and it'll 448 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.599 rule that bubble, no doubt, but it will always be 449 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.440 mystified by the fact that we have something called creativity, 450 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.640 that we make decisions that are not based on logic, 451 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.319 that we have intuition, and that we can we have telepathy, 452 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.039 and we have you know, non local communication abilities with 453 00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:26.720 other entities and other parts of the galaxy from which 454 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.240 we draw information and knowledge from that that they will 455 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.920 never access. But because it's such a young and budding 456 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:39.559 branch of science, we don't really and we're not really 457 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.559 learning about it fast enough. We still, like I said, 458 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.480 give too much credibility to the you know, the two 459 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.559 D three D computer matrix world more than we should 460 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:50.680 be giving a credit. 461 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:55.640 For Yeah, you're right, And another piece of evidence that 462 00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:01.640 shows that we're being pushed towards this transhuman even faster. 463 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.160 Now you can look at the vaccines people are needing 464 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.519 basically boosters for the previous vaccine that they got because 465 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.359 of a new variant supposedly that's out there. How many 466 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.799 of these boosters and upgrades we could call them, are 467 00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:23.440 you gonna need until you're completely vaxed up one hundred times? 468 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.880 I don't know. You know, how far could this go? 469 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.400 And what is you know, what is the purpose behind 470 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.440 all of it? You know, if people need to be 471 00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:36.640 threatened with their livelihood and their job and being able 472 00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:40.160 to go places and participate in life, if you know, 473 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.119 if you're not going to take this shot that they 474 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.039 want to give you, what is really the purpose here? 475 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.160 What's going on? What are the underlying agendas? 476 00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.119 Well, I think that anyone who who begins to do 477 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.480 some research into that will find that it's it's actually 478 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:58.480 not that difficult to find out where they're going. And 479 00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.000 I think one of the tell tales signs we can 480 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.000 get onto that in a second. But I think one 481 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.559 of the telltale signs that this can't possibly be the 482 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:11.160 answer is simply that we don't see or hear anything 483 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.880 in the media that's giving us valuable information on how 484 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:20.039 to fortify our own natural biological immune systems, which have 485 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:24.440 been developing over millions of years to protect ourselves from 486 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:29.759 every form of invader from the outside other than let's say, poison. 487 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:34.200 I mean, we have very well equipped to develop our 488 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:39.480 own ability to defend ourselves against new information that comes 489 00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:42.799 all the time. And the thing is, our bodies, when 490 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:47.559 they're strong, when they're properly nourished, when they're living in 491 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:52.279 clean air, when they're not being blasted by micro radiation 492 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.240 from all directions, I think that our bodies have an 493 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:01.960 incredible ability to resist any form of yeah, like virus 494 00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.079 out there. I mean, it's clear even if you look 495 00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:07.519 into the virus theory that it's just still a theory. 496 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.240 There never really has been a virus that's been isolated. 497 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.039 All they've been able to do is presume some genetic 498 00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.160 sequences are viruses. But they don't really even spend any 499 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.880 time researching how the body works as a unit in 500 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:26.119 defending itself from outside invaders. They tried to in science 501 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.319 and biology to set things down to its smallest little unit, 502 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.440 and then they try to reverse engineer from there by saying, oh, 503 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.920 this part does that, but they don't understand that it's 504 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.920 the whole thing working together that works. And they haven't 505 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.079 even come close to figuring that out. That's why it's 506 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.480 still a theory. And it's clear from in my own 507 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:47.960 life my experiences with people working on nutritional levels. I 508 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:50.400 had a chance to work with a woman called Anne 509 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.559 Wigmore in the nineties and I worked very closely with her, 510 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:56.440 even published some material for her out of Boston, and 511 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.880 they'd learned on about how whak grass jews uh and 512 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:05.079 juices and natural living foods and sprouted things UH really 513 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:08.480 like give your body like a super boost in terms 514 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:13.079 of immune immunization against anything out there by by giving 515 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.839 your body an oxygen boost. And and oxygen is one 516 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:20.599 of the one of the enemies of all forms of 517 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:24.160 disease and viruses and bacteria out there. So we don't 518 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.680 hear any of that being discussed in the media like nothing, 519 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.559 and anybody who is talking about it is immediately considered 520 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.079 some quack. I mean, the newest one is the ivermectin thing. Right, 521 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.839 We're not getting all these cartoons people standing at the 522 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:39.880 UH that they're going for horse what is it? Or 523 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.720 I don't even know. Yeah, for de warmers, right, so like, 524 00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:47.559 I mean, come on, like and ivermectin. Yeah, it's one 525 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.039 thing and it probably works, but it's still just a 526 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:54.839 misleader because, yeah, forms of health that your body needs 527 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:58.759 are much simpler than that, and they're not being talked about. 528 00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.359 We're not talking about any of the pollutants coming in 529 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.920 our systems. We're not talking about the stuff raining down 530 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.799 from us from the skies and forms of camtrails. We're 531 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.640 not talking about the water that's polluted, you know, we're 532 00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.759 just talking about global warming like a bunch of idiots, 533 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.079 and we don't understand that that system in itself it's ridiculu. 534 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:18.720 I mean, even if you look at the science of it, 535 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.079 it's not possible for a planet to project more energy 536 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.079 from it heat energy from it. Then you know, after 537 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.960 it's created, it just goes downhill from there. Man, If 538 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.640 you look at the history of all of astrobiology, the 539 00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.519 suns die out, the planets die out, they get colder 540 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:36.519 and colder and colder. They don't get warmer and warm 541 00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.559 and warmer because the inhabitants somehow figured out that by 542 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.680 shitting somewhere in a corner a hundred million times that 543 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.240 they're going to make the planet a super hot place. 544 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.319 I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way. And if 545 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:49.440 you think it through carefully enough, you realize just how 546 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.519 ridiculous it is. So I think, you know, this is 547 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.759 this is the thing that people need to spend I 548 00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.039 think a lot more time focusing on how are you 549 00:31:58.119 --> 00:31:59.720 going to get them to do that? I don't know, 550 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.920 because as it requires a certain amount of effort on 551 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.160 your behalf to go through and learn about that. And 552 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.279 on the other hand, you know what we talked about earlier, 553 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.839 the flip side is take the bill, you know, take 554 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:12.480 the injection. You know, it's easier. I want to get 555 00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.680 back to my normality. Yeah, And they don't think about 556 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:17.759 where it will lead them. They don't think about what 557 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.680 world it will go. And if you look at the 558 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.799 people I know I'm talking a lot here, but I'm 559 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.440 just having a train of thought here. If you look 560 00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:27.440 at the people that are behind this stuff, like you know, 561 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:31.599 Klaus Schwab and all these power guys right, well, like 562 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.400 what did they what did they? What got them to 563 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:38.599 their positions of power? They were involved in some industrial process, 564 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.680 some business, something that sold some garbage, that we didn't 565 00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:44.599 ever need. They sold it a hundred billion times and 566 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.559 everyone bought it. And now because they're super rich, they 567 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.680 they had to decide what governments do and what regulations are, 568 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:53.920 even though they they're the ones that actually created the pollution. 569 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.920 They're the ones that created the financial problems because they 570 00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:59.599 took every single tax loophole they could think in the 571 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.160 world to get to their place. And now they're the 572 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.279 ones telling us how we should live our lives. I mean, 573 00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:07.279 that should tell you right there that there's something wrong 574 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.720 with the ideologies of these people. And so where would 575 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.240 they want to take us? Quite naturally, they'd want to 576 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:17.519 take us further down that road of dependence, starting from 577 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:20.640 the simple consumerism that started one hundred years ago when 578 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.759 the Industrial Revolution started to kick in, to the point 579 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.720 where we started manufacturing things we really didn't need, but 580 00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:29.400 we were told we needed them because you know, people 581 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.720 and smart advertising agents came up with advertising campaigns for 582 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:35.920 us to buy them. And now we're here, you know, 583 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.559 one hundred years later, totally way off the path of 584 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.279 where we really are as human beings, with our potential, 585 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:46.359 with our real, true spiritual potential, and we're clueless and 586 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:51.160 we're following along this agenda toward transhumanism without realizing it. 587 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.079 Yeah, you're exactly right. Now, I want to go back 588 00:33:55.119 --> 00:34:00.960 to culture creation and shifting the play and its consciousness 589 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.440 to a certain direction. In twenty seventeen, they had the 590 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.759 New York Times article that got everybody looking at UFOs 591 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.719 and it went on for you know, a little while, 592 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:12.480 and then it kind of died out. And then in 593 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.840 twenty twenty, we have another big uptick of UFO, many 594 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.440 in the media and the government's talking about it, and 595 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:25.280 you know, releasing all kinds of somewhat classified information and 596 00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:28.679 it's kind of bubbling up in the public's consciousness, and 597 00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:31.679 then it goes away, and that happens a few more times. 598 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:35.440 Do you think that there's something behind that that either 599 00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.480 they are slow drip disclosing information because they know we 600 00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.559 are going to find out something no matter what, or 601 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.880 is it for other nefarious reasons that they may have 602 00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:50.440 something up their sleeve, or maybe something different. What do 603 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:53.360 you think is behind this whole new disclosure type movement. 604 00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.880 Well, I think it's obvious that it's drip feed us 605 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:05.199 something that's clear, because I mean, the Nemetz material was 606 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.519 out there already was a two thousand and three, two 607 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:09.719 thousand and four something like that. When that first started 608 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.719 to come out, I remember reading about it last year. 609 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:14.679 I guess it was twenty twenty. I was going to 610 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.800 do a story about it, and then I realized, okay, 611 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.159 well it's kind of an old story. And then it 612 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.760 came out. It came out like again Christmas, you know, 613 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:26.639 big time, and it was still that same old footage, right, 614 00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:30.719 and then everyone thinks, you know, they're getting excited, Hey, 615 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:34.800 this is, you know, going to lead to somewhere. It 616 00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:37.559 was kind of obvious to me that it was not 617 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.599 going to lead anywhere. And when they were the so 618 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.960 called report, the Pentagon report that was demanded that they 619 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.679 finally come clean and say what this is, came out 620 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.760 and said, well, there is something going on. We just 621 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.079 don't know what the hell it is. I mean, it's 622 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:55.159 just it's just another total of making asses of us, basically, 623 00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:59.400 and people need to demand more. And I think there's 624 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.360 probably a lot of people in the UFO community who 625 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.800 are you know, we don't have to mention names or anything, 626 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.760 but and I think they know who they are. I've 627 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.960 talked about this with some other people that are there 628 00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:15.559 that are positioned there and they have a very you know, 629 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.320 they have a reason to be there, and they might 630 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.840 be connected to higher levels, and they are the people 631 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.800 who drip feed certain information out into the UFO community, 632 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.840 and you have a lot of competitiveness. I never knew 633 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.239 about this because I never really was in the UFO community, 634 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:38.719 so to speak, until I connected with Tanya maiden Ford 635 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:42.599 with screen addiction during the process of producing packing from Mars, 636 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.639 and we put that out there and she knew some 637 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:48.840 of the people. She sort of introduced me into that world, 638 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.679 and I got to know some of those people, and 639 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.880 there's many, many great people in there. But I always 640 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.440 felt kind of sad that there was so much rivalry. 641 00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:59.920 And now I understand a little bit more why there's 642 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.320 this rivalry. And the rivalry plays into the divide and 643 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.480 conquer mechanism. So why would that not exist in the 644 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.880 UFO community when it exists in every other form of 645 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.320 community that's out there, Whether it's any niche of science 646 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.280 or whether it's you know, biodynamic farming, it doesn't matter. 647 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.880 It's like there seems to be rivalry everywhere instead of 648 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:23.639 us coming together and saying, hey, what's the best we 649 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.920 could do here. I mean it's very simple, Chris, like, 650 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.559 this is sort of a little branch topic. But I 651 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.320 mean if you look at they're talking about, like again, 652 00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:35.920 Greta has been in the news or something and releasing 653 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:40.559 something about women in Texas or was reading whatever, and 654 00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:44.400 I mean they're talking about how, you know, we have 655 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.440 this crisis, you know, in the world, and this energy 656 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:51.079 crisis and we're polluting the world. I am positively certain 657 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.840 that if you were to take that, if any government 658 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:55.760 in the world, and the Western let's just say, the 659 00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:00.199 Western rich societies were to set aside, let's just I 660 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:04.519 don't know, one hundredth of their military budget, you know, 661 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.599 ten billion or something a year and say, hey, let's 662 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:12.480 pick the ten most promising free energy or alternative energy 663 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.320 inventors out there. Let's make a contest. Let's just have 664 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:20.079 a contest and we'll see, let the public vote. Let's 665 00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:21.840 check out what's out there in the world to put 666 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.840 it on. Like instead of Germany's superstar or America's got talent, 667 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:29.760 that's how about America's got inventors? And we have the 668 00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:34.159 most incredible inventors coming forward with their new technologies and 669 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:36.559 we see, okay, those ten ones there, they get each 670 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:38.599 a billion bucks and they can work for the next 671 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:42.239 three years with they get a lab, they get people 672 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.119 to help them, and I guarantee you within ten years, 673 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:48.000 we would have no more energy problem than the world anywhere. 674 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:52.159 But you don't see it happening, right, because we're built 675 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.239 into our society to conflict each other, to have a 676 00:38:55.239 --> 00:38:58.480 divide and conquer thing. So the disclosure, coming back to 677 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.760 your earlier question, you know, yeah, I think it's just 678 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.199 another one of those bones they threw out there and 679 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.719 everyone talks about it forever. I mean, a lot of 680 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:09.119 the people that are the ones that are on the 681 00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:12.039 forefront of disclosed and that information were the ones who 682 00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:13.920 were busy trying to keep it from us when you 683 00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.039 know when they were active in their in their in 684 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.519 their days. So why should we trust them? I mean 685 00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.159 now now suddenly they've seen the light and they're coming 686 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.360 forward with the information. No, I think it's absolutely controlled 687 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:29.159 drip feed, because the truth is really a lot bigger 688 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:33.039 than that. And I mean, i'm I'm you know, Tanya 689 00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:36.159 and I have been working on a project with our 690 00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:40.760 friend in Los Angeles, Craig Campabasso, which is a documentary 691 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.239 version of a bestseller out there. But Muffon just put 692 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.480 out called The et Almanac, And you know, if even 693 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:50.400 a portion of the amount of extraterrestrial racist described in 694 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:53.239 that book are real, and I have every reason to 695 00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:56.760 believe that some of them must be, then there we 696 00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:00.960 have a totally another level of disc which could be 697 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.079 happening on the planet. But it's not happening. And it's 698 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:07.159 not happening because the same old people are controlling the 699 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.519 same old medias, and the people that are trying to 700 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.360 put it out there on the grassroots level are being 701 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.960 attacked by their own compatriots who are planted in there 702 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.880 to try and create disharmony in that scene. 703 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.760 Right, It's hard to Yeah, it's hard to tell who's 704 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:25.280 you know, like you said, planet in there, who's spreading 705 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.400 disinformation and who's just coming out there because they want 706 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:31.880 notoriety and putting a bunch of bs out there. It's 707 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.519 hard to tell. But it is kind of interesting to 708 00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:38.800 see what's been happening lately with the lack of understanding 709 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.559 of the phenomenon between some of these older researchers when 710 00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:44.840 some of this new evidence is coming to like you 711 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.360 know that's connected to consciousness. There's a lot of spiritual aspects, 712 00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.880 there's a lot of paranormal aspects that can't be explained. 713 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.519 There's a lot of non physical things. All these things 714 00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:58.800 that the nuts and bolts kind of old time researchers 715 00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:00.800 have to take a second look at, and it may 716 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.960 even have to throw out all their thinking altogether. It's 717 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.840 interesting to see what's happening now as kind of not 718 00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:12.760 even understanding, but more evidence and more i guess contact 719 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:17.639 experiences are explored, it gets very strange and this phenomenon 720 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:19.800 gets very deep and hard to understand. 721 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.440 Well, there was that thing called the Brookings Report. I'm 722 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:26.679 sure you've heard of it, yes, and you know what 723 00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.239 the gist of it that was. They did like a 724 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.440 think tank just to kind of research what would happen 725 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:36.159 if we were to tell society that we've found evidence 726 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:42.119 of extraterstrial civilizations out there in space. And you know, 727 00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.599 they they framed it under the context of we may 728 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.599 someday find it. Now. This was taking place in nineteen 729 00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.400 sixty one, I believe, which was a time when they 730 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:56.800 already knew, you know, that there was something going on 731 00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.159 out there into space. So these think tanks that they 732 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.199 put together where I think their attempts to try and 733 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:08.639 figure out how best to mold society or shape society, 734 00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:12.239 or how much to drip feeds society, because they found 735 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.079 out in the course of doing that that the hardest 736 00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:18.599 hit group of people in society that would have problems 737 00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:24.960 with understanding and accepting extraterrestrial civilizations, where the higher education, 738 00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:29.760 the people in higher education, the people the scientists, the 739 00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:33.119 physicists that had won Nobel Prize and stuff for their theories, 740 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:37.119 which basically would be turned obsolete overnight. So it would make, 741 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:39.760 you know, they would have nervous breakdowns. Essentially, they would 742 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:41.519 realize that all they worked for was a bunch of 743 00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:45.239 it was a bunch of mental masturbation for decades and 744 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:48.039 in a sense means nothing, you know, and I mean 745 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:50.480 a perfect example of a de Seinstein. I mean the 746 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.360 guy was a mathematician and never contributed anything useful to 747 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.599 society except a bunch of formulas which were now which 748 00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.079 more and more as time goes by, are proven completely 749 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:03.079 falsepletely wrong. And other people like Tesla saw through it, 750 00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:06.199 you know, one hundred years ago, but they weren't. They 751 00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:08.960 were completely ignored. So you know, this is a perfect example, 752 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.119 so I think, and Einstein was the perfect like let's 753 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.760 wave the magic flag over here, and everyone's watching the 754 00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:17.559 magician trick and they don't understand how the trick works. 755 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.039 So they think Einstein was the man of the century, 756 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.840 but in fact he was probably well, I won't say, 757 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:25.599 but I think, let's say Tesla should have been the 758 00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.480 man of the century if anything right, But we never 759 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.440 even heard about Tesla. I remember in the eighties and 760 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.519 nineties when I started to discover magnetics and things like that, 761 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.239 I came everyone comes across Tesla eventually, and then I'm like, whoa, 762 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.960 why don't I see Tesla in the history books? And 763 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.199 there's nothing you know, and there's nothing. You just hear 764 00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.599 Edison and you know, Marconi and people like that. But 765 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:48.920 Tesla was this fringe guy that you never heard anything 766 00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:51.079 about it. And it might turn out that Tesla in fact, 767 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:52.840 was the man of the century that no one ever 768 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:53.360 heard about. 769 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:58.920 Yeah, you're absolutely right. And along the lines of you know, 770 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.639 secret hidden tech or Tesla tech that could have possibly 771 00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:07.480 been confiscated by certain individuals and high positions and possibly 772 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.199 used today, we could have amazing things if Tesla tech 773 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:17.519 would have been pursued. But if it was pursued by 774 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:23.639 say secret operations, government operations, military things that we don't 775 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.280 know about, right, we would have this secret space program 776 00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:29.400 and you've. 777 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.360 Well that's what we talked about unpacking from ours, you know. 778 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.000 And next Shaga was part of that program, and it 779 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:36.519 had to do with DARPA teaming up with something that 780 00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:39.480 was created by Pello Greno or Netti called the chronavisor 781 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.880 which allowed them to make jumps in time eventually and 782 00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:49.000 then eventually teleportation. So and you know this teleportation technology 783 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.559 also exists and we don't hear about it. It was 784 00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.719 an interesting leak that came out and I think it 785 00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:00.400 was January twenty twenty twenty, with this general quest and 786 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.039 he basically said, yeah, we already have wireless and energy, 787 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.000 we already have teleportation. He did it live in front 788 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:09.159 of an audience, and I have a recording of it. 789 00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:11.000 I couldn't believe it because I read I read an 790 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:12.920 article someone sent me. I'm like, come on, I can't 791 00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:14.800 be There's no way he would have said that. And 792 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:19.039 I went back and I found the actual live speech 793 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.800 he gave and yeah, he actually does say it. So 794 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.199 I mean there's leaks like that that happened. That shows 795 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.960 you that the technology which they've secretly and covertly developed 796 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:32.599 is being deployed, and it's just being deployed to their 797 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:34.960 advantage and not to ours. That's all. And the main 798 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:36.880 reason is that it's in the private sector and not 799 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.320 in the public sector. That is the one reason and 800 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:42.119 the one way they can keep their technologies to themselves, 801 00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.639 because if it's a public company or it's a public sector, 802 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.000 you have the right as a stockholder go in and 803 00:45:48.039 --> 00:45:50.119 find out what's going on, or as a stockholder in 804 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:51.599 your government, you have the right to look at the 805 00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:54.719 government papers. And I mean in that sense, freedom of 806 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:57.280 Information Act is pretty much a joke because whenever you 807 00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.719 do get some information that you've requested back happens to it, 808 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:02.760 it's all blacked out, so you can only read a 809 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.840 couple of sentences enough to kind of put the gist 810 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:09.320 of it, you know, roughly together. But yes, I mean 811 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:13.679 this technology is out there. I'm convinced that it's being used, 812 00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:19.800 and I think there's evidence of plenty of interaction between 813 00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.320 these people and you know, not so benevolent extraterrestrial forces 814 00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:29.199 which might be out there. I don't believe that they're 815 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:34.360 all benevolent like some people. But I do think that 816 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.440 there's enough of a variety of extraterrestrial beings out there, 817 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.360 of both positive and negative, that it balances itself out 818 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:45.119 there as well, because they all have a vested interest 819 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.760 apparently in our planet for some reason, our planet, you know. 820 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.239 I believe that is true, that it is one of 821 00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.440 these genetic experiments that was started, and I believe that 822 00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:00.239 this experiment has a right to go to its to 823 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:05.079 its full potential. And I think that the extraterrestrials of 824 00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:09.719 both sides are going to prevent each other from interfering 825 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.960 to the extent that they're going to stop the experiment altogether. 826 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:19.039 Yeah, that's what I consider very often, is that we 827 00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:23.000 probably are some sort of just grand experiment for these 828 00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:27.360 highly intelligent entities. But then again, who knows, there could 829 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:31.519 be all kinds of different possibilities there. I want to 830 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.119 get your thoughts on what do you think has happened 831 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.960 to the public consciousness when it comes to this secret 832 00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:40.559 space program. I remember a few years ago when I 833 00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:44.239 was first started talking about this, I'd have people that 834 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.039 claim to be super soldiers on, like you know, Tony Rodriguez, 835 00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.360 Randy Kramer, all these people that claim that they've been 836 00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:57.400 off planet and have these fascinating stories about interactions with 837 00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:03.239 extraterrestrials and even various government programs, et cetera. Now, the 838 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:05.840 most compelling thing for me is their belief in their 839 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:08.880 own stories, and you know the ability for me to 840 00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:12.000 tell that they at least believe this and they're It's 841 00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:16.199 very compelling that aspect to me. But recently we've been 842 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:19.480 proven that much of our history is a lie, much 843 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:23.159 of conspiracy is reality. So who am I to question 844 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:27.360 these people's stories about secret space program when they very 845 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.239 well could be true. We're finding out more conspiracy is 846 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.840 reality every day, and we have a space force, So 847 00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:36.880 who knows how far this goes? How far do you 848 00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:39.599 think our secret space program may go? 849 00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.239 Well, are you talking about the official space program that 850 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:48.000 Trump and now. 851 00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:50.559 I'm talking about even the cigar do we have? Are 852 00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.280 we beyond Mars? Are we out of our Solar system? 853 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.000 How far do you think even our secret space program goes? 854 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.679 I believe that are that there are that there are 855 00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:06.239 groups of people who are Earth. There are groups of humans, 856 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.760 or let's just say groups of Earthlings, because that could 857 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:14.360 be other humans and the there are groups of Earthlings 858 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:19.880 which are actively participating with extraterrestrial civilizations and traveling to 859 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.159 and from their planets and solar systems in other parts 860 00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:27.599 of the universe and the galaxy. So to that extent, 861 00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:32.880 we're already I think, way way out there. I also 862 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:38.079 believe that there is a lesser or like a more human, 863 00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:42.840 let's say, controlled group of a faction of people which 864 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:47.960 are using technology to traverse our solar system like Mars, 865 00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:52.320 you know, Jupiter, Venus, et cetera, the Moon, of course, 866 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:56.440 and also maybe even in our Earth, and so I 867 00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:00.559 believe I believe those technologies exist as well, but I 868 00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:06.920 think that it doesn't really even matter so much anymore, 869 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:11.199 because like, why, what purpose does it really then serve? 870 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.360 I always thought the purpose when I got into like 871 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.440 ten years ago, I started making packing from ours, and 872 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:23.599 I just went into that world, thinking, okay, let's explore this, 873 00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:26.360 let's see what it's about, let's see what we find. 874 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.760 Of course, it was based on Leslie watkins amazing book 875 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.159 Alternative Three, which you know, which a lot of people 876 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.119 believe was not fiction but actually fact, which was talking 877 00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:39.440 about it in the sixties already, and of course I've 878 00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.760 now since come to learn of a whole level of 879 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:45.440 technology developed here in Germany and starting in the nineteen 880 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:50.519 twenties by a certain group of people. But I mean 881 00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:55.719 the point is for me now, aside from the fascination 882 00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:59.599 of discovering that there really is something out there, that 883 00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:07.039 there really are basis on Mars inhabited by human beings 884 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:12.719 that are collaborating quite potentially or quite likely with extraterrestrial civilizations, 885 00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:18.960 aside from the fascination and the initial like wow, that's 886 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.079 awesome and we've got to tell everybody about it. Now 887 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.559 after ten years, I'm like, okay, well, so what In 888 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:27.320 a way, it's like, what are you going to do 889 00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.920 about it? Right? I mean, if you really are out there, 890 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.000 you want to do something cool with it? Or do 891 00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:34.440 you just want to keep hiding out there? And so 892 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:39.719 I believe that now I'm slanting more toward the saying 893 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:43.119 by their fruits, you shall know them. So those people 894 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:47.480 who are talking a big talk, they should produce something. 895 00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:53.280 They should be driving the change. They should be on 896 00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:59.000 the frontier of milestone disclosures and milestone technologies, not just 897 00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.920 like talking about oh we're going to be releasing We're 898 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:05.880 now in possession of information that's going to be releasing 899 00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:08.599 you know, technologies and blah blah blah, and then five 900 00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:11.599 years go by and then nothing happens. Like I'm just like, 901 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:13.599 I'm so tired of that. It's like, one, are you 902 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:16.880 going to like fess up, like are you in control? 903 00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.119 Are you not? Because there are ways to get information 904 00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:21.920 out there. You know. One of the ways that companies 905 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.239 like Microsoft and Apple and others, Linux and stuff get 906 00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:29.079 their their operating systems developed by and checked by many, 907 00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.159 many thousands of people is to put it into the 908 00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:35.039 public domain as an open source project. So I know 909 00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:38.400 that this technology, if these people aren't telling the truth, 910 00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:40.119 all they have to do is release it in the 911 00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:43.000 open source world and boom, there would be a boom 912 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.199 and we would start to see there would be people 913 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.480 that would It would make it clear that there's things 914 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.679 going on that we should we haven't known about that 915 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.119 we now should know about it. And this is the 916 00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:57.199 crux of this has to do with our own again, 917 00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.880 our spiritual evolution. It's like, why do they think we're 918 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.519 still kids and we can't you know, we can't deal 919 00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:06.639 with it or something, or are they willing to say 920 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:10.840 are they willing to trust that humanity. Those seventy percent 921 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:14.000 which the polls tell us, believe that extraterrestrials exist, but 922 00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.039 aren't going to go out to their boss and say 923 00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:20.920 they do. But those ones out there, are we going 924 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.719 to trust that if we come clean and we say, look, people, 925 00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:28.639 you know, we did have this technology starting one hundred 926 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.119 years ago, we did use it, and we did maybe 927 00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:34.880 abuse it. But the fact is we all want to 928 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:38.800 live collectively as a civilization, and we want to make 929 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:41.800 the next step as a space faring civilization, and we 930 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:44.519 want to connect with our space brothers and sisters out there. 931 00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:49.800 So please forgive us. We fucked it up. Sorry, deep, 932 00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:52.719 but you know there is light at the end of 933 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:54.880 the tunnel. We've all been through a lot of pain. 934 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:57.840 There's been a lot of unnecessary stuff gone down in 935 00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.519 the world. But it's time for us to up and 936 00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.159 we hope you forgive us, and you know, we'll put 937 00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:05.159 ourselves out there for it, and if you need to, 938 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.400 you know, burn us in the streets, well then that's 939 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.239 our karma. Where are the brave souls that are coming 940 00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:13.840 out doing that. Where's that level of evolution that is 941 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.480 needed to do that. Where's that that's that's what we need. 942 00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:20.519 We need this sort of a coming clean because this 943 00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:24.880 we can't continue going on about the secret space program indefinitely. 944 00:54:24.920 --> 00:54:27.320 Then there'll be another Randy Kramer, you know. And Randy 945 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.559 Kramer's story is very believable. I've talked to him personally 946 00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.000 many times, or not many times, but let's say I've 947 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.440 talked to him personally enough and in depth enough to 948 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.639 feel that he's that he's telling the truth or what 949 00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:42.840 he believes is the truth. And so, you know, but then, 950 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.480 like you said, how much can we really trust that 951 00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:49.760 he wasn't you know, brainwashed in some MK ultra mind 952 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:54.400 control program, fed the entire dialogue to repeat and then 953 00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.079 released into the public domain, to still tell his story 954 00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.440 that he may not even know he's telling that is 955 00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.280 true or not true. He's a victim in that sense, 956 00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:05.760 just like everybody else who was taken into such a 957 00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:09.880 program and is out there telling their story. But they're not, 958 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:13.519 you know, pulling the evidence out and saying, oh, here 959 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:15.880 here's that thing that I was working on. You know, 960 00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:18.760 I actually had the chance, when I was filming Packing 961 00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:23.960 from Mars that to meet one of the protagonists, who 962 00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:27.480 is an extraterrestrial. And he actually told me a story 963 00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:30.280 about some technology that he came across, and he actually 964 00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.599 pulled it out and he produced it to me. So 965 00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:36.000 it was like, okay, that is cool, you know, and 966 00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:40.159 so that you know, made me. That's another level of information. 967 00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:43.039 And so that's where I believe we're at with this 968 00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:46.480 secret space stuff. I think we need to get grow up. 969 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:48.960 It can't be like little kiddies, you know, comparing our 970 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.159 little cards, our baseball cap Oh, I got this secret 971 00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:54.800 fleet here, and I got the floating submarines there, and 972 00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:58.320 I got you know, all the German blah blah blah, 973 00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:01.800 honeybooz and stuff. Yeah they existed. But okay, now what 974 00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:02.559 are you gonna do with it? 975 00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.280 Yeah, you're right now speaking of growing up, Maybe we 976 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:12.639 could talk about if there is any possible solutions to 977 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:17.320 our global situation or you know, what steps can we 978 00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:20.639 take to kind of change the course that we're on, 979 00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:23.280 if it's possible at all. Do you think that there 980 00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:27.159 is a way to shift our timeline basically to a 981 00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:31.039 more positive one, because right now we're kind of on 982 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:35.079 a runaway train headed towards a cliff. So it's pretty 983 00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.320 dire for a lot of people, and you can sense that, 984 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.239 you can sense the fear of course, like we talked 985 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:42.320 about earlier, so it's not that easy for you know, 986 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:44.239 global change like. 987 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:54.199 That, right, good question. You know, very intriguing information that 988 00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:00.119 I got at the start of this year was that 989 00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:04.000 that that were like very very intimately connected with the 990 00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:10.000 Earth on a like on a vibrational level. Let's just say, 991 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:12.199 and I never knew this, but I don't know if 992 00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:13.960 you know this, but did you know that the Earth 993 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:19.840 has been expanding for millions of years? Yes, Well, there's 994 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.679 a I mean, it's not just an interesting fact that 995 00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:26.559 actually has it has actually an interesting correlation to us. 996 00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:29.760 And it has to do with something called the Schumann 997 00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:34.000 frequencies and the Shuman frequencies that you've probably heard of. 998 00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.159 The Schumann frequencies that there are these seven point eight 999 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.519 three is what most people define them as. There's this 1000 00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:45.159 this resonant field, this magnetic these these lines, these magnetic 1001 00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:48.039 lines around the planet which are resonating at seven point 1002 00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:52.480 eight three hurts. Well. The recent science that's been not 1003 00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.599 even not so recent science, but I mean also not 1004 00:57:55.639 --> 00:57:58.639 so recent science has been coming out has been how 1005 00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:03.679 that frequency is correctly our brains also resonate at that frequency, 1006 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:08.840 and also our hearts. And what's interesting to me about 1007 00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:14.320 the expanding Earth is that, you know, like maybe I 1008 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:17.760 don't know, five hundred thousand years ago, the Earth being 1009 00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:23.880 smaller was the way the human frequencies are created is 1010 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:28.679 by calculating a formula of the size of the Earth 1011 00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:34.360 and the speed of light. And it basically, the smaller 1012 00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:38.480 the Earth is, the higher the frequency. It's kind of 1013 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:41.199 like a drum, right, The bigger the drum, the deeper 1014 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:46.880 the tone. And it wasn't until now, actually, like let's 1015 00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:51.480 say modern era, the last two hundred years, that the 1016 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:55.360 seven point eighty three herts has actually been the frequency 1017 00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:58.360 of the human frequencies. They weren't always seven point eighty 1018 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.599 three herts. In fact, seven point eight three hurts. And 1019 00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:05.480 on certain days, if you look at the measuring station 1020 00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:09.360 of the human frequencies in Russia, you see that on 1021 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:12.519 many days it's on eight and it's a very flat 1022 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.440 line of eight hertz. And so what right, Well, interestingly, 1023 00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:23.119 eight hertz has been described as a magical frequency that 1024 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:28.159 seems to transcend dimensions, It seems to travel between dimensions. 1025 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:32.559 So if we are to assume let's say for a 1026 00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.880 second that we as humans, as souls, don't come from 1027 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:41.000 this dimension, but actually exist in other dimensions, another dimension, 1028 00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:45.079 higher dimensions, and we actually only manifest bodies in this 1029 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:51.639 lower dimension for the purpose of exercising our souls lessons 1030 00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:55.000 or destinies, whatever you want to call it, to learn, 1031 00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:02.079 to interact, to grow, to evolve. Seems interesting that just now, 1032 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.840 like in the last couple hundred years, we've hit that 1033 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:10.239 magic eight hertz frequency. That means that our brains and 1034 01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.039 our resonance field and our personal bodies is totally in 1035 01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:17.880 tune with that of the Earth, and that in itself 1036 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:21.119 is in tune with the greater cosmos. So if there's 1037 01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:26.320 a greater intelligence out there that programmed like a matrix, 1038 01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:30.639 like a software program, physical dimensions in order for us 1039 01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:33.639 to inhabit them and for us to grow and evolve 1040 01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:37.239 and make a quantum leap in our consciousness, it seems ironic, 1041 01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:41.920 almost like divinely planned, that just now the constellation of 1042 01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:48.000 everything working together would indicate the most favorable conditions for 1043 01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:52.719 us to make that leap in consciousness. Now, many people 1044 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.880 out there in society, at least a lot of the 1045 01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:58.639 people that Tanya and I have encountered and have interviewed 1046 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:03.320 or done shows with have already peaked or taken a 1047 01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:06.559 peak into those other realms of the dimensions. Maybe either 1048 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:11.920 we've had near death experiences or their psychically predisposition that 1049 01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:15.559 they can manifest things, or they can they're psychokinetically capable. 1050 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:20.119 They're already tapping into these higher frequencies and higher abilities, 1051 01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:23.599 these sigh abilities that we're all capable of doing. But 1052 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:26.000 the fact is that all of us are, you know, 1053 01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:30.440 we just have untapped potential. We have untapped genetic substance 1054 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.519 in our let's say, junk DNA, if you want to 1055 01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:35.679 call it that, which we haven't even really explored yet. 1056 01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:39.559 And all that would have to happen for us to 1057 01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:43.159 maybe more of us, let's say, to tap into it 1058 01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:45.400 is for us to learn that this is actually going on, 1059 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:48.119 because most people don't even know that the earth is 1060 01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:50.760 expanding and that there is this thing called the shipman frequencies, 1061 01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:53.719 and that the pineal gland and the human brain it's 1062 01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.480 the first organ to mature, as if as the embryo 1063 01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.920 grows in as a fetus, it's the first organ to 1064 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:04.440 sort of switch on, and what does it do? The 1065 01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:07.320 very first thing it does is it vibrates at seven 1066 01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:09.840 point eighty three hurts, and it's almost like a cell 1067 01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:13.880 phone connecting with the cell tower. It's like we as 1068 01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:18.280 beings immediately the first thing, at the first point of consciousness, 1069 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:23.719 we tap into this greater cosmic energy frequency field resonance 1070 01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:27.079 field that's out there. Michael Persinger talked about it in 1071 01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:30.360 Solar Revolution, you know, he called it like the Acachek records. 1072 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.639 He says, the magnetics and magnetosphere of the Earth is 1073 01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:36.599 basically like a giant hard drive which is just waiting 1074 01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.119 full of data. That's everything that's ever been thought done, 1075 01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:43.280 every action activity, every brain weight that's ever been emanated, 1076 01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:46.599 has been stored in this magnetic frequency of the planet. 1077 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:50.440 So that technology and that ability and that knowledge is 1078 01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:52.639 out there. And this is also why we don't just 1079 01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:58.440 arrive as you know, totally blank people. We arrive with characteristics. 1080 01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:02.239 We have you know, we have references, we have personalities, 1081 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.960 we have certain knowledge Like if you look at you know, 1082 01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:08.239 baby kittens or baby dogs, they have certain they know 1083 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:10.639 certain things already. You don't have to teach them. It's 1084 01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:14.800 like they're tapping into that depository that repository of information 1085 01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:18.679 which everyone of their species have contributed to. And so 1086 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:21.079 the one positive thing that I would say we have 1087 01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:23.679 going for us now is that we have the perfect 1088 01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:26.719 conditions for us for at least the sears of us, 1089 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.840 the more evolved the shamanistic people in society. You know, 1090 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:32.519 if we aren't getting it put out there in the 1091 01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:36.079 education system, in the news and whatever, we have those 1092 01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.960 people out there which are able to now more than ever, 1093 01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:42.199 tap into and bring that knowledge and that information and 1094 01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.760 anchor it down here in this dimension for us, to 1095 01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:49.119 pull us all up to this other dimension. And I 1096 01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:51.280 think that's the only thing we can really hope for 1097 01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:54.880 because and what's the alternative, right, I mean, the other side, 1098 01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:58.760 the alternative is working feverishly to strap us down to 1099 01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:01.840 a level of kind of unconsciousness. They don't talk about 1100 01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.280 this form of existence. They don't acknowledge that there's a 1101 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:08.079 human spirit, that there's a soul. They look at us 1102 01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:11.239 as inanimate beings and hunks of flesh with a that 1103 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:16.280 are that are living in totally accidental universe by completely 1104 01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:20.119 accidental evolution. You know, and we know that this isn't true. 1105 01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:24.400 These these these ideas are obsolete they're over, but not 1106 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.280 not enough of us. They're out there propagating this information 1107 01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:32.760 to overcome the threshold yet to beat down the shadow world, 1108 01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:35.199 which is you know, still believes it's in control, and 1109 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:37.440 it really is in control at this very moment. Then 1110 01:04:37.480 --> 01:04:40.239 it really is pushing us back against the wall to 1111 01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:41.280 have to take a stand. 1112 01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:46.760 You're absolutely right, man, that was spot on. I would 1113 01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:48.480 love to talk to you again in the future. We 1114 01:04:48.599 --> 01:04:50.440 got so much we could have discussed. We kind of 1115 01:04:50.440 --> 01:04:53.199 barely scratch the surface on what's going on right now. 1116 01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:55.920 And I know you said you're working on a new 1117 01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:59.400 project right now. Is that anything you'd be able to 1118 01:04:59.400 --> 01:04:59.920 talk about. 1119 01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.480 Yeah, well that was what I was mentioned before. Like 1120 01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:04.920 Tony and Maiden Ford and I are and Screen Addiction 1121 01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:11.199 are working with Craig Campobasso on co producing the documentary. 1122 01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:13.800 So that's a project that we've been busy with and 1123 01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:18.480 that's going to be I think quite amazing. We've done 1124 01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:24.159 some incredible interviews. Some of the information is just mind boggling, Chris, 1125 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:27.440 just mind bloggling. We were we were just last week. 1126 01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:31.639 We spent you know, the week basically traveling and giving 1127 01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:35.800 an interview, getting an interview from somebody who's had you know, 1128 01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:41.519 ongoing direct contact with this specific species of extraterrestrials, and 1129 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:45.000 the messages that we were given are just just incredible. 1130 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:50.039 It's just totally amazing, and I think this information is 1131 01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.599 going to help a lot of people to also just 1132 01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:59.079 you know, open up more to the possibilities and the 1133 01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:02.599 probabilities of what's going on the potentialities of what's going 1134 01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:05.960 on out there. And Tanya and I also have been 1135 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.920 working on a project of you know, we've done essentially 1136 01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:13.880 we've done projects about you know, the mysteries of Mars, 1137 01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:18.119 the mysteries of the Moon, the mysteries of Venus and 1138 01:06:19.639 --> 01:06:22.039 the Sun. So we kind of thought and we've been 1139 01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:26.000 sort of gathering and doing quietly and interviews and information 1140 01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:28.679 on the mysteries of the Earth. So that would be 1141 01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:31.519 one of our upcoming projects to look for. Probably I'll 1142 01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:33.760 probably contact you at that point when we have something 1143 01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:36.960 more tangible. Right now, we don't, we're not really talking 1144 01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:39.039 too much about it. We tend to keep our projects 1145 01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:41.679 sort of under wraps and we don't disclose much of 1146 01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:45.719 the details about those projects until they're actually finished, just 1147 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:49.039 to you know, stop any other form of interference if 1148 01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.840 there is any maybe it wouldn't want the information getting 1149 01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:55.719 out there. So that's been keeping us busy, and I've 1150 01:06:55.719 --> 01:06:57.800 been doing a lot of live talks in Germany, both 1151 01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.599 myself solo and also together with ton Yah. It's interesting 1152 01:07:01.639 --> 01:07:04.480 to explore this area over here, to get to know 1153 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.199 the people and the scene, the network over here of 1154 01:07:07.239 --> 01:07:10.039 people that are opening up and that are aware of 1155 01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:15.440 a much greater picture of reality. And at the same 1156 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:19.039 time see the parallels to the civilization everywhere else in 1157 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:21.920 the world, the culture everywhere else on the planet, in 1158 01:07:21.960 --> 01:07:25.599 the United States, including you can find parallels to you know. 1159 01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.039 You you might say that the people in the United 1160 01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:31.039 States are more open, and yes they are, but then 1161 01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:33.320 by the same token, they're just as unconscious as the 1162 01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:37.559 unconscious people over here that are unconscious. And so, you know, 1163 01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:40.840 I think we have kind of the same problem globally, 1164 01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:45.199 and I think we have the same what I wrote, 1165 01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.119 the sleeping giant dragon. We have. There's a sleeping dragon, 1166 01:07:48.199 --> 01:07:51.599 you know, and that sleeping dragon is that part of 1167 01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:54.719 humanity which is gonna wake up, and maybe it is 1168 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:57.840 going to be by some flash. You know, we've heard 1169 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:01.239 several people talk about a flash event, some big event 1170 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:07.559 that's going to hit us, and I mean Paul Loveliouette, 1171 01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:10.519 he's one of the leading scientists in that theory, talks 1172 01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:13.400 about it with in terms of neutrinos, you know. And 1173 01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:17.079 there's a guy called Constance Mile who's a German physicist 1174 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:20.279 who talked about the neutrinos in relation to why is 1175 01:08:20.359 --> 01:08:22.840 the Earth expanding? Because many people were trying to figure out, well, 1176 01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:26.039 why is the Earth expanding? What's the reason, what's causing 1177 01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:28.840 it to expand? And there's two theories that are popular. 1178 01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:33.640 One is that the magnetic forces of the whole universe 1179 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:37.439 have been weakening, causing all the planets in fact all 1180 01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:41.079 over the universe to expand gradually, which is apparently going on. 1181 01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:43.600 And at the same time, another thing is happening, and 1182 01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:48.399 that's neutrinos hitting our planet and right now, and we 1183 01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:52.840 also talked about that in Solar Revolution. We're being hit 1184 01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:58.600 by an unprecedented amount of cosmic radiation gamma rays, beta 1185 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:04.600 X rays, beta waves, radio waves, and neutrinos. And why 1186 01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:07.920 are neutrinos interesting, Well, neutrinos are kind of like the 1187 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:12.319 manifestation molecule. They don't really have the matter or no 1188 01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:15.640 matter they're kind of zero. But when the theory is 1189 01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:18.359 and the science seems to indicate that when they land 1190 01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:21.119 and hit Earth and they enter the Earth's crust and 1191 01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:24.800 they anchor in, they become matter, and they actually then 1192 01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.760 turn into matter. So if we've ever had a chance 1193 01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:30.279 right now, like I was saying, in line with what 1194 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:34.000 I was saying earlier, to manifest we have the neutrinos. 1195 01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:37.079 You know, the neutrinos are think of them as manifestation molecules. 1196 01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:40.279 So we can manifest this new Earth. We can manifest 1197 01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:42.319 this new timeline. It's out there. We just have to 1198 01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:45.199 we have to visualize it. We have to see something. 1199 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:48.119 We can't just expect the world will get better on 1200 01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:50.439 its own. We can't just think the world's going to 1201 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:52.840 get better if we destroy the bad things, because then 1202 01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:55.239 we're just giving the bad things power. We actually have 1203 01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:58.319 to visualize the new world the way we would like 1204 01:09:58.399 --> 01:10:00.560 to see it. We have to have, like I'm sure 1205 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:02.319 you've had experience in your life if you wanted to 1206 01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:05.000 learn instrument or if you wanted to play a sport, 1207 01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:07.479 you had the kind of there was a certain point 1208 01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:10.760 in your development where you where you watched other players 1209 01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:15.079 or you just you saw yourself and you visualized yourself 1210 01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:18.439 and then at some point, with practice and enough practice 1211 01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:21.960 and visualization, boom, you suddenly reach another level. And I 1212 01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:25.359 think we have that obligation and we have that we 1213 01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:29.159 have that need right now as a human species to 1214 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.199 do that same thing. We need to visualize this new 1215 01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.000 world and we need to move into that new world 1216 01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:35.720 and the only way we can and we have everything 1217 01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:37.800 going for us to do it. So that would be 1218 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:40.520 a great way to send off your audience tonight. 1219 01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:42.159 It was, Yes, definitely. 1220 01:10:42.279 --> 01:10:46.159 So if they're and visualize the new world and manifest, 1221 01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:47.840 don't let the bastards grind you down. 1222 01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:50.920 Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's a perfect way to 1223 01:10:52.039 --> 01:10:55.000 end the show tonight. I think now's a perfect time 1224 01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:58.199 for people to come into their power, if any you know, 1225 01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:01.680 for to do what they we're always meant to do 1226 01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:04.720 in their lives or wanted to do. Now's the time 1227 01:11:04.720 --> 01:11:07.359 to do it. There's no more delay. And Frank, thank 1228 01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:10.439 you so much for coming on. That was fantastic information. 1229 01:11:11.159 --> 01:11:13.199 Like you said, we'll have you back on after some 1230 01:11:13.239 --> 01:11:16.960 of those projects and it'll be a great conversation again. 1231 01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:21.960 Always great talking to you, Chris. You're a really good conversationalist. 1232 01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:23.800 I love your show and all the best to you 1233 01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:25.239 and much continued success. 1234 01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:27.600 Thank you so much, Frank. Today I want to welcome 1235 01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:32.159 Dennis mckinna. He has conducted research in ethno pharmacology for 1236 01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.680 over forty years. He's a founding board member of the 1237 01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:39.920 Hefter Research Institute and was a key investigator on the 1238 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:45.239 Huasca Project, the first biomedical investigation of ayahuasca. He is 1239 01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:49.159 the younger brother of Terence McKenna. Since twenty nineteen, he 1240 01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:52.840 has been working with colleagues to manifest a long term dream, 1241 01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:58.319 The mckinna Academy of Natural Philosophy, a nonprofit organization founded 1242 01:11:58.319 --> 01:12:01.560 in the spirit of ancient Mysteries schools and dedicated to 1243 01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:07.319 the study of plant medicines, consciousness, intelligence and nature, preservation 1244 01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:12.199 of indigenous knowledge, and a revisioning of humanity's relationship with nature. 1245 01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:16.600 Doctor McKennon is author or co author of six books 1246 01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:21.920 and over fifty scientific papers and peer review journals. Doctor McKenna, welcome. 1247 01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:22.960 How are you doing today? 1248 01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:27.640 Pretty well? Pretty well, getting toward the end of the week. 1249 01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:32.520 Rainy day here at Abbotsford, so good day to just 1250 01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:36.840 chill out in the basement which is what I usually do. 1251 01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:37.359 Anyway. 1252 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:40.760 Hey, it's kind of rainy day here too and a 1253 01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:43.039 little cold, so I feel that it's a good day 1254 01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:45.720 to hang out inside and it's great to have you on. 1255 01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:49.399 I'm honored. I been looking forward to this. You know, 1256 01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:54.760 I've experienced firsthand the amazing benefits of psilocybin and it 1257 01:12:54.800 --> 01:12:59.520 was actually was a major contributor to my current situation 1258 01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:02.359 in getting me headed in the right direction, not only 1259 01:13:02.399 --> 01:13:06.680 with this current career, living my passion, but getting rid 1260 01:13:06.680 --> 01:13:10.479 of the fear that it took to get me to 1261 01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:14.000 this place. You know, I was living in a lot 1262 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:17.880 of fear based on quitting a job that I wasn't enjoying, 1263 01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:20.600 that it wasn't making me happy, and kind of pursuing 1264 01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:23.680 this is my passion, and that kind of helped me 1265 01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:28.279 break free of that, you know, using psilocybin microdosing and 1266 01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:31.439 things of that nature. I'd like to know when and how, 1267 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:35.119 of course, you got involved with this amaging research and 1268 01:13:35.319 --> 01:13:38.840 plant medicine, you know, if we all know, of course, 1269 01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:41.960 your brother Terrence was a pioneer working with this, and 1270 01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:44.000 I'd like to know what got you involved. 1271 01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:48.079 Well, I think you just said that, you know, my 1272 01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:53.600 brother Terrence, being four years older. I mean, I suppose eventually, 1273 01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:58.560 you know, even if I had had a brother, I 1274 01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:02.319 would have stumbled on this myself, you know, but being 1275 01:14:02.439 --> 01:14:07.159 four years older, he was pushing the envelope on a 1276 01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:12.279 number of fronts, you know about you know, before I was. 1277 01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:16.319 I mean, he was going to school in California while 1278 01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:18.760 I was still in high school stuck back in this 1279 01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:22.560 Colorado town. You know that we grew up in so 1280 01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:29.119 and we were just we had mutual interests in what 1281 01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:32.600 you might call all things weird, and we were kind 1282 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:37.159 of nerdy, both of us, really kind of science geeks 1283 01:14:37.199 --> 01:14:43.039 when we were teenagers in different ways. But you know, 1284 01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:48.000 so so you you, you know, you kindly characterize it 1285 01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:52.319 as research, and maybe it evolved into that. I would 1286 01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:54.319 say when we started out, we didn't think of it 1287 01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:57.760 as research. We thought of it as you know, getting 1288 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:05.560 high and you know, and just experimenting with psychedelics in 1289 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:10.119 the late sixties where everybody else was interested in it. 1290 01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:17.199 And you know, I think for us, the thing that 1291 01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:22.960 made a difference here, that changed our focus from casual 1292 01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:28.319 and curiosity to actually dedicated our lives to this thing 1293 01:15:29.720 --> 01:15:35.720 was our experiences with DMT, and DMT was not around 1294 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:39.560 much in the sixties. Now it's quite easy to find, 1295 01:15:40.199 --> 01:15:44.520 they tell me. But DMT was kind of a mysterious 1296 01:15:45.720 --> 01:15:49.840 psychedelic at that time. You didn't see it much. It 1297 01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:52.000 was hard to get. When you got it, there was, 1298 01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:55.760 you know, not a good synthesis. Not that it mattered 1299 01:15:56.479 --> 01:15:59.439 because you smoked it, it still did the trick. But 1300 01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:02.720 dm tea was fascinating for us because it was so 1301 01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:07.479 just it seemed in a class by itself in terms 1302 01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:12.239 of the levels of strangeness, the sort of portals to 1303 01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:16.119 other dimensions that it could open up, you know. And 1304 01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:21.000 for comparison, in the sixties, we had LSD, That's what 1305 01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:26.199 there was, and occasionally you get masculine or peyote, but 1306 01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:30.600 generally the psychedelic of the of the era was LSD 1307 01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:36.760 and nothing wrong with LSD. LSD is also fascinating psychedelic, 1308 01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:41.279 but it does not put you into these apparent extra 1309 01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:47.239 dimensional places that DMT does. So we were just just 1310 01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:53.960 fascinated by that, and you know, our interest in this 1311 01:16:55.159 --> 01:16:59.399 really didn't come. We were not what i'd call spiritual seekers. 1312 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:04.920 We were we were novelty seekers, you know, we were 1313 01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:11.800 interested in extraordinary experiences, whether whether they had you know, 1314 01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:16.279 a spiritual foundation or not, that was less important to us. Well, 1315 01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:19.840 you know, if you've had experience with DMT, you know 1316 01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:25.680 that on the you know, it ticks the box, shall 1317 01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:31.359 we say, as an extraordinary experience, and really for us, 1318 01:17:31.399 --> 01:17:36.199 one of the most extraordinary experiences we'd ever had. And 1319 01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:41.600 fifty years later, I have to still say it's still 1320 01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:45.920 right up there, you know, as one of the more interesting, 1321 01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:51.720 fascinating psychedelics. Not that I take it much anymore, but 1322 01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:56.319 you know, the memory resonates, and occasionally I do, but 1323 01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:02.279 the memory resonates like a lot of psychedelics experiences, there's 1324 01:18:02.319 --> 01:18:07.640 significant events in your life, you know, and you remember, 1325 01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:12.000 you remember your important psychedelic tricks. I mean I know, 1326 01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:17.600 I certainly do, and I've had hundreds, and I don't 1327 01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:21.199 remember hundreds. I remember the ones that stand out, you know, 1328 01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:25.119 like anything else. So that's kind of what got us 1329 01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:29.159 down the primrose path on the road to psychedelics. We 1330 01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:34.199 just felt that this was worth looking into, and so 1331 01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:35.720 it has proven to be. 1332 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:39.520 Right now, I have yet myself to try d MT, 1333 01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:45.319 but I have tried LSD, mescaline and psilocybin, and I 1334 01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:48.399 started out like many with LSD. Like you said, you know, 1335 01:18:48.439 --> 01:18:50.640 it's kind of like to get high as a little 1336 01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:53.920 party thing as a teenager and in my twenties. And 1337 01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:58.640 it wasn't until I really did tried psilocybin that I 1338 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:01.319 had more of a spiritual experience with this. The the 1339 01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:03.600 LSD was kind of like more of a party thing. 1340 01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:06.000 It got me up and you know a little hyped 1341 01:19:06.039 --> 01:19:08.479 and maybe see a few colors and cool things here 1342 01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:10.760 and there. But I didn't really have this deeper kind 1343 01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:15.039 of connect connective experience to to the universe and everything 1344 01:19:15.520 --> 01:19:18.600 until I tried psilocybin. Do you find that common with 1345 01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:19.359 with many people? 1346 01:19:21.279 --> 01:19:25.439 You mean, the difference between the LSD and so yes, Well, 1347 01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:28.640 of course LSD is a dose thing. You know, don't 1348 01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:35.039 underestimate LSD. Uh the uh. You know, the doses that 1349 01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:38.439 are around these days, as I understand, they're fairly low. 1350 01:19:38.520 --> 01:19:41.920 There are about one hundred micrograms, you know, which is 1351 01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:44.239 I mean, you can feel the effect, but this is 1352 01:19:44.279 --> 01:19:47.600 not this is not gonna knock you off your your 1353 01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:53.039 pedestal necessarily. Back in the day when I was, Back 1354 01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:55.800 in the day when you were not bored, you know, 1355 01:19:57.159 --> 01:20:01.039 before the Earth's crusted, curled. I suppose, I yes, you know, 1356 01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:04.199 I mean we had orange sunshine and white light being 1357 01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:06.359 and that kind of stuff. So that was like five 1358 01:20:06.439 --> 01:20:10.319 hundred micrograms that kind of thing, and that was a 1359 01:20:10.439 --> 01:20:14.760 significant dose. And you can get to some really interesting places. 1360 01:20:15.039 --> 01:20:19.239 But there's there's a character to the psilocybin experience and 1361 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:24.960 it seems much more alive, much more natural, which it is, 1362 01:20:24.960 --> 01:20:30.359 of course, and just you know, sometimes I talk about 1363 01:20:30.359 --> 01:20:33.680 the trip to mean dimension. You know, it seems to 1364 01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:37.840 put you into this place that all of the trip 1365 01:20:37.880 --> 01:20:40.720 to means do more or less. It's the same place 1366 01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:46.119 mushrooms because of psilocybin, the course is a close relative 1367 01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:52.359 of DMT chemically, and so you've got DMT and psilocybin, 1368 01:20:52.560 --> 01:20:58.479 bouffoting five methoxy DMT. They're all part of this chemical 1369 01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:02.439 family of trip to me. Technically, LSD is also a 1370 01:21:02.479 --> 01:21:06.000 trip to me, but it's a little more complex than 1371 01:21:06.279 --> 01:21:10.560 than these things, and all of these things hit the 1372 01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:14.680 same receptors in the brain pretty much, and you know, 1373 01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:20.279 have similar effects. So so the trip to means are 1374 01:21:22.439 --> 01:21:25.600 you know, I think the most interesting to me, the 1375 01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:31.000 most interesting class of psychedelics because they do reliably trigger 1376 01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:35.399 these mystical experiences or these senses. The experience will be 1377 01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:39.399 that one with the universe and all of these all 1378 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:46.560 of these things that we now know characterize mystical experiences, 1379 01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:51.000 and that and that many people have experienced with the 1380 01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:54.199 help of psychedelics. I mean, if one thing we've learned 1381 01:21:55.279 --> 01:21:57.680 about this is you don't have to be a saint 1382 01:21:57.960 --> 01:22:01.720 to have a mystical experience. You don't have to meditate 1383 01:22:01.760 --> 01:22:05.199 in the cave all your life. You just have to 1384 01:22:05.239 --> 01:22:07.920 take the right substance, of the right dose, of the 1385 01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:13.000 right circumstances. And you know, a mystical experience can be 1386 01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:18.520 yours too, you know, to enjoy or to integrate whatever. 1387 01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:23.760 So you know, it's interesting that there is some built 1388 01:22:23.800 --> 01:22:28.680 into everybody's brain apparently, is the neural architecture to have 1389 01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:30.760 these kinds of experiences. 1390 01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:35.439 And almost everyone that I know that has had a 1391 01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:40.399 real strong psychedelic experience has admitted that it has changed 1392 01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:44.239 at least some aspect of their lives profoundly after they've 1393 01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:48.279 had this experience compared to before. Is this also something 1394 01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:49.880 you find pretty much across the board. 1395 01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:55.960 Yeah, yes, I do. I mean they are yeah, they 1396 01:22:56.359 --> 01:23:01.439 are very impactful. And you're probably familiar with rowand Griffith's 1397 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:06.119 work his group at Johns Hopkins and with psilocybin primarily, 1398 01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:09.600 and they were the first ones to really do a 1399 01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:16.439 rigorous kind of scientific investigation of psilocybin as a mystical experience, 1400 01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:20.359 you know, And their conclusions from that was that, you know, 1401 01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:25.119 out of their study cohort, they had, you know, about 1402 01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:27.800 thirty percent of the people said it was the most 1403 01:23:28.239 --> 01:23:34.640 significant experience personally meaningful experience was the phrase they used 1404 01:23:34.720 --> 01:23:39.680 of their entire lives, you know, And another big chunk 1405 01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:43.119 of that sample said, well, it was among the top 1406 01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:49.359 five for sure, you know. So so, you know, a 1407 01:23:49.399 --> 01:23:56.359 substance that can reliably induce meaningful experiences personally meaningful experiences 1408 01:23:56.680 --> 01:24:00.760 is has got to be good for some thing. And 1409 01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:07.479 it basically is something that people come away from that 1410 01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:11.680 with and say it was the most profound, most meaningful 1411 01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:17.239 experience of my entire life. So it's not surprising if 1412 01:24:18.159 --> 01:24:21.680 people change in response to that, you know, I mean, 1413 01:24:21.720 --> 01:24:25.119 it's I mean, if it wasn't really impactful, and I 1414 01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:28.399 suppose for some people it's not, you know, I mean, 1415 01:24:28.439 --> 01:24:33.000 it's just another experience, and you know, you have it 1416 01:24:33.119 --> 01:24:36.159 and don't think about it too much. But other people 1417 01:24:38.119 --> 01:24:41.880 integrated better, you know, and they are really impressed and 1418 01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:46.560 changed by it, and usually in very positive ways, you know. 1419 01:24:47.520 --> 01:24:51.840 I think that's its therapeutic use, is that the effects, 1420 01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:57.920 you know, this this it changes your perspective basically, and 1421 01:24:57.960 --> 01:25:01.720 it lets you step out of your ordinary reference frame 1422 01:25:02.600 --> 01:25:05.680 and look at things from a little different through a 1423 01:25:05.720 --> 01:25:10.520 different lens temporarily, And it's a useful lens. And sometimes 1424 01:25:10.560 --> 01:25:14.039 you wonder, you know, it's like before you were staring 1425 01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:18.039 through a smudge lens, you know, getting I think in 1426 01:25:18.199 --> 01:25:23.039 ordinary reality it's kind of a you know, a distortion 1427 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:28.359 of reality in some ways. And and psychedelics can be 1428 01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:32.720 like psychic wind decks, you know, they let you clear 1429 01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:36.359 the clear the lens and see things more clearly. 1430 01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:43.199 There we go, Sorry it was muted. Yeah, it's exactly. 1431 01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:48.319 If I have a good experience or profound experience, it's 1432 01:25:48.359 --> 01:25:51.920 like I've had a great therapy session. It's like having 1433 01:25:52.119 --> 01:25:54.279 a little therapist in my head for a few hours, 1434 01:25:54.319 --> 01:25:56.279 and the best one I've ever had. You know, they 1435 01:25:56.319 --> 01:25:58.039 could get down to the route and tell you where 1436 01:25:58.039 --> 01:26:00.560 you're screwing up, and really point out what going on 1437 01:26:01.039 --> 01:26:03.319 and even the worst, like you know, some of the 1438 01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:06.000 worst trips or experience that I've had work, it gets scary. 1439 01:26:06.319 --> 01:26:07.800 At the end, I come out and I'm like, I'm 1440 01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:10.479 glad that happened because I learned something from that. I 1441 01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:13.640 learned something about myself and you know, the experience and everything. 1442 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:17.039 So yeah, it's like a therapy session going on. It's great, 1443 01:26:17.560 --> 01:26:20.199 And I want to talk about what is actually going 1444 01:26:20.239 --> 01:26:22.920 on in the brain because isn't there been studies where, 1445 01:26:23.039 --> 01:26:26.800 you know, under the influence, the brain displays less activity 1446 01:26:26.800 --> 01:26:27.800 when being monitored. 1447 01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:36.039 Yes, there is. It's complicated, you know, like everything about neuroscience, 1448 01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:41.560 it's complicated. But under some conditions, it's not so much 1449 01:26:41.640 --> 01:26:47.319 that it generates less activity, but there's less connectivity between 1450 01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:51.479 different parts of the brain. It seems like, you know, 1451 01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:57.000 the brain, like almost all biological systems, is based on 1452 01:26:57.119 --> 01:27:01.479 feedback loops and homeostasis and all that, and you know, 1453 01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:08.079 we're genetically and evolutionarily and personally programmed to kind of 1454 01:27:08.399 --> 01:27:11.720 maintain an even keel if you will, and you know, 1455 01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:16.239 and that's useful. That's what they call the default mode 1456 01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:21.520 network these days in neuroscience. It's basically a set of 1457 01:27:21.680 --> 01:27:27.840 behaviors that you that you enact for you know, for 1458 01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:32.239 ordinary states of consciousness. Just to get through every day, 1459 01:27:32.439 --> 01:27:35.600 you know, you have to stay focused and pretty much 1460 01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:39.960 on what's happening, pay attention and so on, so you 1461 01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:43.000 don't you know, walk into walls or step in front 1462 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:46.119 of buses or things like that. You know, that's not 1463 01:27:46.119 --> 01:27:52.560 not convenient. But the default mode network also is designed well, 1464 01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:56.039 it's not designed. It's not like anyone designed this thing. 1465 01:27:56.279 --> 01:28:00.000 Just just the way it works is it shields you 1466 01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:03.479 from a lot of It keeps you in an ordinary 1467 01:28:03.880 --> 01:28:06.520 more or less an ordinary state of reality, and that's 1468 01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:09.560 where we are most of the time, you know, But 1469 01:28:09.680 --> 01:28:14.640 sometimes it's useful to step away from that, to step 1470 01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:22.000 outside that reference frame, and that can help you have 1471 01:28:22.119 --> 01:28:27.680 insights about yourself, about the nature of reality, about your 1472 01:28:28.119 --> 01:28:34.000 relationship to reality, just things that are normally filtered out. 1473 01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:34.439 You know. 1474 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:38.000 The brain is very good at filtering things out. That's 1475 01:28:38.039 --> 01:28:42.680 at least half its function is not to let information in, 1476 01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:48.279 but actually block information so that so that you can 1477 01:28:48.319 --> 01:28:51.920 make sense of the input that you do get. Otherwise 1478 01:28:52.239 --> 01:28:55.760 you'd just be overwhelming, you know. But once in a while, 1479 01:28:55.960 --> 01:28:59.039 under the right circumstances, and this is The important thing 1480 01:28:59.119 --> 01:29:02.199 about taking some akadelics you have to pay a lot 1481 01:29:02.239 --> 01:29:04.840 of attention to set and setting. You want to do 1482 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:09.680 it in a place that's appropriate and where you know 1483 01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:13.600 you're not in danger, you're not in danger of disrupting 1484 01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:17.159 other people. And basically you're in a situation where you 1485 01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:22.199 can just surrender to the experiences, knowing that you've taken 1486 01:29:22.279 --> 01:29:26.319 all the steps you can to make sure that you 1487 01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:29.359 know you have created a safe set and setting to 1488 01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:34.680 have it. And and so that's why they emphasize set 1489 01:29:34.720 --> 01:29:38.880 and setting so much, because you know it is it 1490 01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:45.119 is disrupting, that's the whole point. And so if you 1491 01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:48.520 do that then and do it in a way where 1492 01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:52.199 you can just surrender to it and let it happen. 1493 01:29:52.640 --> 01:29:57.520 And you know you alluded before. I don't think there 1494 01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:01.039 is such a thing as a bad trip in general, 1495 01:30:01.119 --> 01:30:04.600 because you can learn from all of these trips, you know, 1496 01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:08.800 and they can be scary. They can be scary, but 1497 01:30:10.199 --> 01:30:15.880 that's where you know, planning the circumstances, the sentence setting 1498 01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:18.199 comes in so that you take all steps to know 1499 01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:21.399 and also where courage sets in. You know, there's a 1500 01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:25.039 certain point. I mean, they can be scary, but you 1501 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:29.039 have to find the courage to just let go, just 1502 01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:33.640 surrender to it, because the chances are when these things 1503 01:30:33.760 --> 01:30:37.479 come up that are that are disturbing, there's a reason 1504 01:30:37.600 --> 01:30:41.800 for it, and essentially you're being offered a chance to 1505 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:46.960 confront that, learn from that. And if you're in a 1506 01:30:47.159 --> 01:30:51.000 if you're in an ideal setence setting, then it's much 1507 01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:53.840 easier to do that, not that it isn't still scary, 1508 01:30:53.920 --> 01:30:56.239 but a little less so because you don't have to 1509 01:30:56.319 --> 01:31:01.640 worry about real world issues, you know, and and uh so, 1510 01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:04.880 so that's that's what they say, you know, and sometimes 1511 01:31:04.920 --> 01:31:08.840 in ayahuasca, but a lot of my experience has been 1512 01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:12.479 with ayahuasca. But I've heard shaman say, well, you know, 1513 01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:15.960 if you're confronted with the animal anaconda who comes to 1514 01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:20.039 eat you, you know, you just jump in. You don't 1515 01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:23.800 run away, you run forward it because these entities are 1516 01:31:24.520 --> 01:31:27.960 fearsome but basically benevolent. 1517 01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:34.520 So yeah, yeah, that's amazing stuff. I want to talk about. 1518 01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:38.239 You mentioned these entities. I want to talk about the 1519 01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:43.720 contact experiences that are possible with psychedelics. Now, before I've 1520 01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:47.439 even had any contact experiences using psychedelics, I had a 1521 01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:51.920 contact experience through meditation. It was a very spiritual experience. 1522 01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:54.479 I believe it was possibly a spirit guide of some 1523 01:31:54.520 --> 01:31:57.039 sort that I was speaking with h but it was. 1524 01:31:57.520 --> 01:32:02.199 It happened again after I started using psilocybin. A little 1525 01:32:02.239 --> 01:32:05.079 bit after I had that experience. I was able to 1526 01:32:05.159 --> 01:32:09.239 kind of recreate and speak again with this entity much 1527 01:32:09.239 --> 01:32:13.279 easier this time after taking the psilocybin, and it happened 1528 01:32:13.279 --> 01:32:15.720 a few times after that with you know, different types 1529 01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:19.199 of entities. I think it's very interesting. It wasn't to 1530 01:32:19.319 --> 01:32:21.359 me that I was talking to myself. I could very 1531 01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:24.600 much tell a difference and an overwhelming feeling of like love, 1532 01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:28.840 and these amazing aspects to it that you know, aren't 1533 01:32:28.880 --> 01:32:31.239 part of a normal trip. You could say, you know, 1534 01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:33.920 what do you think is really happening here? Are we 1535 01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:37.840 accessing something outside ourselves to ours? This a part of 1536 01:32:37.880 --> 01:32:41.039 ourselves that were that we're speaking with. What do you 1537 01:32:41.079 --> 01:32:41.840 think this is? 1538 01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:45.439 I think nobody knows. I think I think there are 1539 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:50.159 all kinds of of you know, speculations. So let me 1540 01:32:50.199 --> 01:32:54.880 ask you these entities that you contacted, It's not always 1541 01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:56.439 the same entity, right. 1542 01:32:57.000 --> 01:32:59.800 No, different, it's different. It was two or three different 1543 01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:05.159 types of entities over a few experiences, all benevolent, all very. 1544 01:33:05.039 --> 01:33:09.359 Loving, always loving. Well that's good, yes. 1545 01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:13.279 Yeah, yeah, but I got lucky. All of these were 1546 01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:17.399 very loving, very benevolent. They kind of sent these emitting 1547 01:33:17.439 --> 01:33:20.119 feelings of love that I've never felt before. It was 1548 01:33:20.199 --> 01:33:22.680 like a drug on top of a drug on top 1549 01:33:22.680 --> 01:33:25.560 of it was really amazing, you know, And the communication 1550 01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:29.159 was psychic, instantaneous, just spectacul. 1551 01:33:29.239 --> 01:33:33.760 So you have you encountered different entities, but were there 1552 01:33:33.800 --> 01:33:38.279 instances when you went back to an entity that you 1553 01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:42.199 encountered before? I mean, did these things go through like cycles? 1554 01:33:42.520 --> 01:33:44.760 Uh? Yes, I was well, I was able to, yes, 1555 01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:47.960 speak with them at different times and they came back. 1556 01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:53.880 Yes. Yeah. So you have the impression that somewhere out 1557 01:33:53.960 --> 01:33:57.960 there whatever we mean, yeah, right right, like a pantheon 1558 01:33:58.159 --> 01:34:02.479 of entities that you can can to on a more 1559 01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:07.159 or less reliable basis, And you know, I mean actually 1560 01:34:07.239 --> 01:34:09.399 to the same entities of different primes. 1561 01:34:09.439 --> 01:34:11.760 See, I don't know. That's that's my whole question. I 1562 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:14.319 have no idea what I'm speaking with. I have only 1563 01:34:14.439 --> 01:34:19.039 speculations and theories. But you know, based on conversations I've had, 1564 01:34:19.560 --> 01:34:22.399 you know, it could be I don't know. Yeah, that's 1565 01:34:22.399 --> 01:34:23.960 why I'd love to get your thoughts on it. 1566 01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:31.760 Well, my thoughts are as you know, uh, as as 1567 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:35.560 muddled as anybody's probably. I mean, people do have these 1568 01:34:35.720 --> 01:34:39.960 encounters or parent encounters. But beyond that, what can you 1569 01:34:40.000 --> 01:34:42.319 say about it? I mean you can't even say, well, 1570 01:34:42.479 --> 01:34:45.600 they're out there? Well what do you mean by out there? 1571 01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:46.119 You know? 1572 01:34:46.279 --> 01:34:46.880 Out where? 1573 01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:48.239 You know? 1574 01:34:48.720 --> 01:34:52.239 And when you think about you know, one of the 1575 01:34:52.279 --> 01:34:57.920 things something that psychedelics make you realize is there is 1576 01:34:58.119 --> 01:35:01.439 these boundaries, these distinctions to treat. In there and out 1577 01:35:01.479 --> 01:35:04.880 there are not really real. And you know, we have 1578 01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:09.079 the realization that we're all one, we're all connected and 1579 01:35:09.079 --> 01:35:12.720 and all of that. So this idea of out there 1580 01:35:12.840 --> 01:35:15.920 in there, I'm here and these entities are out there, 1581 01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:20.520 this is all part of this artificial reality that we 1582 01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:24.640 construct for ourselves to make sense out of it. Do 1583 01:35:24.720 --> 01:35:27.439 the entities exist outside your mind? 1584 01:35:28.399 --> 01:35:29.119 Uh? Is it? 1585 01:35:29.560 --> 01:35:32.920 You know? Are you really tapping into some other dimension 1586 01:35:33.039 --> 01:35:37.319 we'll call it provisionally, or is this an aspect of yourself, 1587 01:35:38.199 --> 01:35:42.680 that is that is revealing itself to you as though 1588 01:35:42.680 --> 01:35:48.520 it were not yourself. That's the big question, and it's 1589 01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:53.760 very hard to know. It's very hard to know how 1590 01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:57.199 would you determine that? How would you be able to 1591 01:35:57.319 --> 01:35:57.840 test that? 1592 01:35:58.640 --> 01:35:58.840 You know? 1593 01:35:59.439 --> 01:36:03.640 My brother, you know, struggled with this when he was 1594 01:36:03.960 --> 01:36:08.319 taking He used to take psilocybin pretty high doses by 1595 01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:12.520 himself usually, and then he would get into these dialogue 1596 01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:17.920 situations with whatever these entities were, and he would say 1597 01:36:18.840 --> 01:36:21.720 exactly this, how do I know that you're real? How 1598 01:36:22.079 --> 01:36:23.800 prove to me that you're real? 1599 01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:25.239 You know? 1600 01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:28.800 And and he said, if you can tell me something 1601 01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:33.800 that I can't possibly know, that I will be convinced 1602 01:36:33.880 --> 01:36:39.199 that you're real. You know. But you can see the 1603 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:42.720 the tautology and the and the problems with that approach, because, 1604 01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:45.760 you know, and the entities would say, well, if we 1605 01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:50.399 do that, then you won't need to anymore. So I'm 1606 01:36:50.439 --> 01:36:53.079 not going to tell you something that you can't possibly know. 1607 01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:57.039 But but you know, the paradox is, how would he 1608 01:36:57.279 --> 01:37:03.600 know what he couldn't possibly know without already knowing? You know, Yeah, 1609 01:37:04.119 --> 01:37:07.840 I don't know, it's I think it's uh. I mean, 1610 01:37:07.880 --> 01:37:13.359 there is this tendency, especially people in ceremony situations and 1611 01:37:13.399 --> 01:37:18.039 so on, to project onto the medicine, you know, and 1612 01:37:18.079 --> 01:37:22.119 to anthropomorphize the medicine and say, you know, at the 1613 01:37:22.199 --> 01:37:26.199 time we've talked, people talk about mother ayahuasca all the time, 1614 01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:31.680 that that sort of metaphor. I think it's it's okay, 1615 01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:35.600 but it's it's important, you know, to realize this is 1616 01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:42.800 probably a metaphor, you know. And and when you take 1617 01:37:43.359 --> 01:37:49.920 something like ayahuasca, because it's so immersed in other cultures, 1618 01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.600 traditions and so on, so there's a tendency to to 1619 01:37:53.920 --> 01:37:58.439 adopt that perspective, you know. But we're not indigenous in 1620 01:37:58.520 --> 01:38:01.199 the same way they are. Their view of it may 1621 01:38:01.239 --> 01:38:08.840 be very different. I mean, you know, it's I mean, 1622 01:38:08.840 --> 01:38:12.399 if entities are out there, it would be interesting to 1623 01:38:12.600 --> 01:38:17.840 know that. But I think more importantly is whatever channel 1624 01:38:17.960 --> 01:38:22.079 these insights come from, whether they come from outside entities 1625 01:38:22.920 --> 01:38:25.720 or whether they come from some part of yourself that 1626 01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:31.600 appears to be another entity. The you know, the question 1627 01:38:31.680 --> 01:38:34.960 is what is the information good? You know, are you 1628 01:38:35.039 --> 01:38:38.760 getting a message that makes sense that you can integrate, 1629 01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:43.119 that you can benefit from some way. Isn't in other words, 1630 01:38:43.159 --> 01:38:48.960 a valid learning experience, you know, And if it is that, 1631 01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:51.760 then you can accept it and you don't really have to, 1632 01:38:52.079 --> 01:38:54.800 you know, whether it's some other entity or some part 1633 01:38:54.840 --> 01:38:59.319 of yourself doesn't really matter. In a certain I mean, 1634 01:38:59.319 --> 01:39:01.560 we'd like to know, Oh, but it doesn't really matter 1635 01:39:02.239 --> 01:39:04.600 in terms of the insights you're getting. 1636 01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:08.560 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you know, 1637 01:39:08.600 --> 01:39:12.560 I tend to kind of lean towards probably is an 1638 01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:14.840 aspect of myself. But still don't know, and it's very 1639 01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:17.960 interesting to to kind of explore that. Before we move 1640 01:39:17.960 --> 01:39:20.359 on from from entities, I want to get your thoughts 1641 01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:23.119 on the machine elves that are reported through d m 1642 01:39:23.199 --> 01:39:26.319 T experiences. Many times this is you think this is 1643 01:39:26.399 --> 01:39:29.680 kind of along the same lines, because that has heard 1644 01:39:29.720 --> 01:39:32.159 some pretty creepy experiences with these things. 1645 01:39:32.920 --> 01:39:38.199 Well yeah, uh, I mean I think it's the same 1646 01:39:38.319 --> 01:39:43.680 kind of thing. You know, this this perception of external entities, 1647 01:39:43.840 --> 01:39:48.239 and yeah, you know, and and it also is I mean, 1648 01:39:48.279 --> 01:39:52.279 it's caused the symptom of reading too much Taris but Kenna, 1649 01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:57.399 you know, I mean, he's the machine elf guy. I 1650 01:39:57.520 --> 01:40:00.800 never saw a machine elves emails. 1651 01:40:00.920 --> 01:40:02.640 Right, you have to talk to many who haven't, and 1652 01:40:02.800 --> 01:40:04.680 some who have though you know it's. 1653 01:40:04.960 --> 01:40:09.800 Their their minds have all been poisoned by really really 1654 01:40:09.880 --> 01:40:13.079 you have to have to be careful, you know, because 1655 01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:16.319 we do intend, we do tend to acquire these memes, 1656 01:40:17.199 --> 01:40:20.880 and in part I think that's because you know, the 1657 01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:25.880 I mean almost by definition, you know, these experiences can't 1658 01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:29.840 really be described very well. So you know, in language, 1659 01:40:29.880 --> 01:40:36.159 they're really meta linguistic or super linguistic kind of uh uh, 1660 01:40:36.520 --> 01:40:42.800 you know, experiences, they're by definition ineffable, inexpressible. Uh. But 1661 01:40:43.640 --> 01:40:48.439 we're linguistic species, and of course, you know, we try 1662 01:40:48.479 --> 01:40:55.479 to grasp any kind of linguistic box that we can 1663 01:40:55.600 --> 01:40:59.520 stuff these things into. Otherwise they're really scary, you know, 1664 01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:03.039 because we can't. So there's a tendency to try to 1665 01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:09.000 wrap language around this. In some ways the language is 1666 01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:15.600 is inadequate, really, but it's it's almost irresistible to try 1667 01:41:15.640 --> 01:41:18.239 to to try to do that just as a way 1668 01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:25.760 of explaining it to yourself. So you know, and that's 1669 01:41:26.279 --> 01:41:29.840 that's just the way we are. We're going to try 1670 01:41:29.840 --> 01:41:35.279 to find metaphors that fit the experience. And and that's fine, 1671 01:41:35.359 --> 01:41:38.520 I mean, that's part of that's a part of integrating it, 1672 01:41:38.760 --> 01:41:43.039 you know, but you sort of have to remember and 1673 01:41:43.039 --> 01:41:47.039 I'm sure you've had this experience yourself, with your own experiences, 1674 01:41:47.920 --> 01:41:52.000 you know, the memories and the construction you take back 1675 01:41:52.319 --> 01:41:57.800 with it, the resolection, recollection, you take back. It's you know, 1676 01:41:57.960 --> 01:42:04.399 it's about as close too, you know, the actual experience 1677 01:42:04.479 --> 01:42:07.680 as a portrait of somebody is to the actual person. 1678 01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:11.800 You know, it's basically a map or it's a schematic. 1679 01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:16.199 It's not so it's it's flat, it's two dimensional. It 1680 01:42:16.359 --> 01:42:22.239 lacks that, you know, that full dimensionality that it has 1681 01:42:22.399 --> 01:42:26.800 when when you're experiencing it, you know, I mean, when 1682 01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:31.239 you're actually in the throes of it, being experienced. The 1683 01:42:31.239 --> 01:42:39.399 the the language uh you know, impulses to to box 1684 01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:43.279 everything into language is temporarily suspended, you know, and you 1685 01:42:43.279 --> 01:42:47.439 can just have the direct experience and then later you 1686 01:42:47.560 --> 01:42:50.399 have to spend time sorting it out and that's where 1687 01:42:50.439 --> 01:42:55.520 integration comes in. But it also is where you you uh, 1688 01:42:56.399 --> 01:42:59.479 you know, defuse I guess you could say, you know, 1689 01:42:59.800 --> 01:43:02.920 the the power of the experience by putting it into 1690 01:43:02.960 --> 01:43:08.439 an explanatory framework, you know, And it's okay to do that. 1691 01:43:08.439 --> 01:43:11.119 That's just what we that's what we do. We always 1692 01:43:11.239 --> 01:43:15.399 try to explain to ourselves. It's just important to remember 1693 01:43:15.520 --> 01:43:21.079 that this is, you know, a pale reflection of what 1694 01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:22.880 actually happened. 1695 01:43:23.720 --> 01:43:29.560 Right, Yeah, I understand now earlier we're talking about LSD. 1696 01:43:29.800 --> 01:43:32.720 I want to talk about some of the strange and 1697 01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:36.319 profound experiences I guess that I've had. Maybe you can 1698 01:43:36.359 --> 01:43:40.720 address what could possibly be behind or going on there. 1699 01:43:40.960 --> 01:43:43.760 As a teenager and in my early twenties, like I said, 1700 01:43:43.800 --> 01:43:47.479 I experimented with LSD, and you mentioned that it's probably 1701 01:43:47.560 --> 01:43:50.159 lower doses. Yes, but me and my friends probably took 1702 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:52.960 a lot of the lower dose, so it ended up 1703 01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:56.359 being a higher dose a lot of times. So we've 1704 01:43:56.399 --> 01:44:01.520 had some pretty profound experiences, including group hallucinations where all 1705 01:44:01.520 --> 01:44:04.279 of us saw our friends had big mickey mouse hands 1706 01:44:04.279 --> 01:44:06.359 at the same time, like about five or six of us. 1707 01:44:07.399 --> 01:44:12.000 Things like we somehow thought about something moving on a 1708 01:44:12.039 --> 01:44:15.079 table and it moved. I was able to do a 1709 01:44:15.079 --> 01:44:17.279 bunch of front flips in a row, and I've never 1710 01:44:17.359 --> 01:44:19.279 done that in my life before and never have since. 1711 01:44:19.399 --> 01:44:22.960 I mean, just strange things that I can't really explain 1712 01:44:23.439 --> 01:44:25.720 that happened to happen when a group of us would 1713 01:44:25.720 --> 01:44:29.159 get together and do this stuff. Any any thoughts. 1714 01:44:28.920 --> 01:44:34.239 On that, well, not really, except that it does go on. 1715 01:44:34.680 --> 01:44:38.760 You know, these kinds of group group experiences and these 1716 01:44:38.800 --> 01:44:45.039 shared hallucinations, if that was that's what they are. I 1717 01:44:45.039 --> 01:44:48.680 mean this, This is not uncommon. This happens, for example, 1718 01:44:48.720 --> 01:44:54.239 a lot with ayahuasca and probably with mushrooms as well, 1719 01:44:56.159 --> 01:45:01.800 and so it's you know, it's like, uh, these group 1720 01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:08.439 uh you know, these group sessions where everybody's tuned in 1721 01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:12.000 more or less to the same wavelength and maybe there 1722 01:45:12.119 --> 01:45:15.000 is some kind of a resonant field set up or 1723 01:45:15.039 --> 01:45:17.760 some kind of a you know, some kind of a 1724 01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:21.600 I mean, that's one way to think of it, where 1725 01:45:21.680 --> 01:45:25.159 everybody is getting the same mean and seeing the same 1726 01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:30.319 things that you know, essentially telepathy or some some version 1727 01:45:30.399 --> 01:45:36.439 of that. And I guess it's uh, I mean, it's 1728 01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:40.319 interesting that this that this goes on. Very hard to 1729 01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:45.840 study though, because you you know, it tends to happen spontaneously. 1730 01:45:45.880 --> 01:45:49.079 You can't really plan for it. And then when it 1731 01:45:49.119 --> 01:45:51.399 does happen, I mean, if you wanted to study it, 1732 01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:53.800 I'm not sure how you would set it up. But 1733 01:45:53.920 --> 01:46:00.880 you can think about, uh, you know, trying to again 1734 01:46:01.159 --> 01:46:05.119 like my brother's exercise with asking it to tell him 1735 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:09.359 something he couldn't possibly know. But you know, and these 1736 01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:15.439 things do take place. I do not know. You know, 1737 01:46:17.159 --> 01:46:20.399 there's no substitute for experience. That's the thing you have 1738 01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:26.960 the experience and to determine if everyone was having that 1739 01:46:27.039 --> 01:46:29.920 same experience, well, you can compare notes, you know, and 1740 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:36.079 yes it would appear. So what explains that on Is 1741 01:46:36.119 --> 01:46:39.560 there a scientific explanation? You could say, well, you know, 1742 01:46:41.159 --> 01:46:46.239 we're programming each other's pheromones, We've set up a pheromonal 1743 01:46:46.960 --> 01:46:52.399 you know, environment here that we're all experiencing the same 1744 01:46:52.479 --> 01:46:56.920 things more or less or whatever. But these are all 1745 01:46:57.239 --> 01:47:01.319 these are all explanations after the fact, you know, and 1746 01:47:01.359 --> 01:47:04.880 they don't have the immediacy that having the experience does. 1747 01:47:06.520 --> 01:47:09.800 Yeah, it's fascinating though, and especially you know, to have 1748 01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.239 that that experience firsthand, and you know, to be able 1749 01:47:13.279 --> 01:47:15.399 to be a part of that, it's it changes in 1750 01:47:15.800 --> 01:47:20.680 many ways. I want to talk about the ancients and 1751 01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:25.920 the possibility that psilocybin or psychedelics or any type of 1752 01:47:25.960 --> 01:47:30.279 these these plant medicines could have been maybe responsible for 1753 01:47:30.439 --> 01:47:33.239 some of the scriptures and writings we have about the 1754 01:47:33.319 --> 01:47:37.479 spiritual experiences that some of the characters in the Bible, 1755 01:47:37.640 --> 01:47:42.399 and you know, ancient text predating the Bible, Sumerian texts 1756 01:47:42.439 --> 01:47:45.399 and beyond Egyptian could have been because they were having 1757 01:47:45.439 --> 01:47:50.680 psychedelic experiences and having these type of you know, contact 1758 01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:54.319 experiences like we were just talking about. 1759 01:47:54.159 --> 01:48:03.560 Right, Yes, well, now you know these use of the 1760 01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:11.840 psychedelics in spiritual traditions like Dionysus, Eleusis and Christianity and 1761 01:48:12.319 --> 01:48:15.239 you know, medieval witchcraft and all that. All of this 1762 01:48:15.359 --> 01:48:19.199 is becoming like a cottage industry in terms of writing 1763 01:48:19.279 --> 01:48:21.920 about it. You know, all kinds of people are writing 1764 01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:28.279 about this. Now. It's you know, the original, I mean, 1765 01:48:28.279 --> 01:48:33.359 the origins of all this was the book The Road 1766 01:48:33.399 --> 01:48:37.840 to Eleusis, which was written by Carl ruck who is 1767 01:48:37.880 --> 01:48:42.359 a classic scholar. Albert Hoffman, the chemists that discovered the 1768 01:48:42.479 --> 01:48:46.560 LSD and R. Gordon Watson, the mushroom guy, and they 1769 01:48:47.119 --> 01:48:51.159 came out with this book that speculated that at Eleusis 1770 01:48:51.640 --> 01:48:54.000 there was a potion that was drunk. Well we know 1771 01:48:54.159 --> 01:48:57.720 this much. Nobody's disputing that. The question There was a 1772 01:48:57.760 --> 01:49:03.439 potion called the Kookian that was drunk in this special 1773 01:49:03.479 --> 01:49:09.479 circumstances in you know, darkened room, and people had revelations 1774 01:49:09.960 --> 01:49:14.039 and amazing experiences that we're not supposed to talk about. 1775 01:49:14.199 --> 01:49:17.319 It was supposed to be a big secret. That's one 1776 01:49:17.319 --> 01:49:20.479 of those kind of secrets that wasn't really a secret, 1777 01:49:20.800 --> 01:49:23.960 you know, but it was something that people you know, 1778 01:49:24.039 --> 01:49:27.760 made the pilgrimage to Eleusis at some point in their 1779 01:49:27.800 --> 01:49:32.000 lives to have these these experiences. And the books that 1780 01:49:32.039 --> 01:49:36.720 have been coming out, The Immortality Key by Brian mar 1781 01:49:37.159 --> 01:49:42.199 esc sort of takes up where that left off and 1782 01:49:42.359 --> 01:49:49.439 postulates that the you know, the Dionysian and Theosecynian mystery 1783 01:49:49.520 --> 01:49:56.520 cults were uh, you know, using beverages, mainly beers. They 1784 01:49:56.560 --> 01:50:00.399 were fermenting beer, they were putting all kinds of stuff 1785 01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:04.640 in there, whatever came to hand. Occasionally they would put 1786 01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:09.920 ergot in it. But whereas ruck And and his colleagues 1787 01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:14.319 in the Road to Eleusis, you know, postulated that it 1788 01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:17.479 was always ergot. It was prepared from an ergot containing 1789 01:50:17.720 --> 01:50:21.800 ergot infested barley. That's how they made it. This later 1790 01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:26.560 data seems to indicate that ergot and many other things 1791 01:50:26.600 --> 01:50:31.640 were included in these in these preparations. But you know, 1792 01:50:32.560 --> 01:50:38.079 definitely these things were used in even in early Christianity, 1793 01:50:38.319 --> 01:50:42.960 and when which was mainly a matriarchal thing in the 1794 01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:48.239 first two centuries a d. And then when the Council 1795 01:50:48.279 --> 01:50:52.680 of Nicea was was was held I think that was 1796 01:50:52.720 --> 01:50:56.359 the fourth century i D. They you know, they eliminated 1797 01:50:56.399 --> 01:51:00.439 all that from the official transcripts. Basically, yeah, they didn't 1798 01:51:00.479 --> 01:51:03.560 want to admit to it, but definitely these things were 1799 01:51:03.640 --> 01:51:07.840 in those traditions, you know. Uh, And there's a lot 1800 01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:11.199 of dispute. I was on a podcast just the other day, 1801 01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:16.039 just left, just a couple of days ago, with a 1802 01:51:16.079 --> 01:51:21.640 couple of guys that are scholars of psychedelics. They they 1803 01:51:21.680 --> 01:51:25.479 represent themselves that way, a guy named Chris Bennett and 1804 01:51:26.119 --> 01:51:31.520 Tom Hatsis. They've written many books about the history of psychedelics, 1805 01:51:31.560 --> 01:51:37.359 and they are not that impressed with Brian's work. You know, 1806 01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:44.079 have you read The Immortality Keith Okay, Well that's his thesis, 1807 01:51:44.079 --> 01:51:48.800 and these these guys have you know, they disagree with 1808 01:51:48.880 --> 01:51:51.479 him and some of what he postulates in part. I 1809 01:51:51.520 --> 01:51:54.800 think it's because he in a lot of ways he's 1810 01:51:54.960 --> 01:51:57.960 ignores their work. And there's nothing that you know, are 1811 01:51:58.199 --> 01:52:01.000 often does. So there's nothing that is off of scholar 1812 01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:06.039 if another scholar has disked their work or not acknowledged. 1813 01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:11.680 But this is just another indication that, you know, these 1814 01:52:12.399 --> 01:52:18.560 religions and Brian's work is interesting for a number of reasons, 1815 01:52:18.560 --> 01:52:23.760 but not least of which it traces in his understanding 1816 01:52:23.800 --> 01:52:27.079 of it. It traces the origin of these things all 1817 01:52:27.119 --> 01:52:30.399 the way back to go Beckley Teppe, which is this, 1818 01:52:31.039 --> 01:52:37.279 you know, civilization in Anatolia thirteen thousand years old and 1819 01:52:37.840 --> 01:52:44.840 a monumental civilization. And they, as he described it, they 1820 01:52:44.920 --> 01:52:50.000 were into fermentation. They had fermented beverages and it was 1821 01:52:50.079 --> 01:52:55.840 basically a funerary death cult that they were preparing these things, 1822 01:52:55.880 --> 01:53:00.239 and that those were spiked, you know, with various things, 1823 01:53:00.279 --> 01:53:03.439 not always what we would think of a psychedelic sometimes 1824 01:53:03.720 --> 01:53:06.960 hand bane and opium and this sort of thing. Are 1825 01:53:07.119 --> 01:53:13.279 Chris Bennett, you know, has has written about the role 1826 01:53:13.359 --> 01:53:17.760 that cannabis probably placed played in some of these traditions. 1827 01:53:18.119 --> 01:53:22.479 So I think I'm not pretended to be a scholar. 1828 01:53:22.720 --> 01:53:25.000 I haven't looked at it in the depth that they do. 1829 01:53:25.199 --> 01:53:28.600 But I think the take home lessly is that these 1830 01:53:28.640 --> 01:53:32.560 were experimentalists. You know, these people were making beer, and 1831 01:53:32.640 --> 01:53:36.680 like craft brewers everywhere, they'd put different things in it 1832 01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:39.720 to see what happened. So they just grab whatever was 1833 01:53:39.760 --> 01:53:43.399 available and say, well what is this. So you got 1834 01:53:43.399 --> 01:53:49.159 some pretty gnarly bruise out of this, oh man, hand 1835 01:53:49.279 --> 01:53:54.680 bane and opium and you know, hashish and all of 1836 01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:55.279 this stuff. 1837 01:53:55.600 --> 01:53:59.319 Yeah, man, some of those sound pretty good. But yeah, 1838 01:53:59.479 --> 01:54:03.239 now they had Lately, you know, past ten twenty years, 1839 01:54:03.239 --> 01:54:08.000 we've seen some major in advancements in you know, the 1840 01:54:08.039 --> 01:54:12.000 medical industry looking at treatments for depression using psychedelics, as 1841 01:54:12.000 --> 01:54:15.199 see articles coming out every day. So it's it's encouraging 1842 01:54:15.279 --> 01:54:18.359 that that it's starting to actually be looked at. I've 1843 01:54:18.439 --> 01:54:23.600 had friends get off of hard drugs using psychedelics and microdosing. 1844 01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:28.039 So let's talk about this. When did this first start 1845 01:54:28.079 --> 01:54:31.880 getting realized and recognized that, you know, psychedelics can help 1846 01:54:31.920 --> 01:54:35.479 with so many things and be so beneficial for mental health. 1847 01:54:37.039 --> 01:54:39.439 Well, it took long enough. 1848 01:54:39.600 --> 01:54:39.920 I mean. 1849 01:54:39.960 --> 01:54:45.319 The thing is, there was there was very active research 1850 01:54:45.439 --> 01:54:50.640 on psychedelics, particularly LSD in the fifties of the sixties, 1851 01:54:50.720 --> 01:54:56.960 you know, and it was being taken seriously, particularly for 1852 01:54:57.079 --> 01:55:02.079 treated alcoholism. There were there's a hostile little here in Canada, 1853 01:55:02.159 --> 01:55:08.399 a couple of them that were basically hospitals for treating alcoholics, 1854 01:55:08.439 --> 01:55:13.239 and they they were using LSD with great success, you know, 1855 01:55:13.520 --> 01:55:17.800 back in the fifties and sixties. The guy that did 1856 01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:22.960 that was Humphrey Osmond, who was actually the person. He 1857 01:55:23.039 --> 01:55:26.960 was a psychotherapist. He's the person that turned on out 1858 01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:32.600 to Suxley, and the person that coined the term psychedelic. 1859 01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:37.319 Actually he's credited with that. So it's not like there 1860 01:55:37.560 --> 01:55:42.000 was not a body of research. You know, at least 1861 01:55:42.760 --> 01:55:47.880 LSD was by far the best researched one. But back 1862 01:55:47.920 --> 01:55:50.880 in the fifties and sixties there was active research going on. 1863 01:55:51.079 --> 01:55:56.399 At the same time, LSD was diffusing into society. It 1864 01:55:56.439 --> 01:56:02.439 was escaping from the lab, from the links into society, 1865 01:56:02.560 --> 01:56:06.079 and we're seeing things like the you know, Mary pranksters 1866 01:56:06.279 --> 01:56:09.359 and the human Beings and Timothy Leary and all that. 1867 01:56:09.600 --> 01:56:15.199 So this was a period of social disruption and change, 1868 01:56:15.279 --> 01:56:19.159 and the psychedelics were part of that. And there was 1869 01:56:19.199 --> 01:56:24.319 a there was a backlash. There was a reaction by 1870 01:56:24.359 --> 01:56:28.279 the authorities, by older people, you know, and it was 1871 01:56:28.279 --> 01:56:31.399 all about, my god, our kids are getting high on 1872 01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:35.760 some substance we never heard of. You know, this has 1873 01:56:35.840 --> 01:56:39.079 to be bad, you know, and so there was a 1874 01:56:39.079 --> 01:56:44.079 big backlash that, you know, and it was disrupting society. 1875 01:56:44.159 --> 01:56:49.000 Of course, society needed just that disruption of that, kind 1876 01:56:49.000 --> 01:56:52.119 of like our society right now, you know, it needs 1877 01:56:52.119 --> 01:56:55.560 a good slap upside the head to wake up. But 1878 01:56:57.439 --> 01:57:03.520 that led to shutting down all formal research in clinical 1879 01:57:03.560 --> 01:57:07.800 work with psychedelics, the lab work, the in vitro work, 1880 01:57:07.920 --> 01:57:12.279 basic neuroscience, that sort of stuff continued, but even that 1881 01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:17.000 slowed down. So it wasn't really until the early nineties 1882 01:57:17.039 --> 01:57:24.239 when Rick Strasitan, actually researcher at the University of New 1883 01:57:24.319 --> 01:57:31.479 Mexico as psychiatrist there, decided to investigate DMT. And he 1884 01:57:31.880 --> 01:57:36.199 was at the time he was working on melatonin, and 1885 01:57:36.279 --> 01:57:40.479 he was working on the role of melatonin, which is 1886 01:57:40.479 --> 01:57:45.800 a pioneer hormone in regulating circadian rhythms and this sort 1887 01:57:45.880 --> 01:57:49.600 of thing, and he got interested in DMT from that perspective, 1888 01:57:50.239 --> 01:57:54.600 and he applied to the FDA to do a dose 1889 01:57:54.760 --> 01:58:02.680 escalation study with DMT. 1890 01:57:58.159 --> 01:57:58.239 And. 1891 01:58:00.399 --> 01:58:04.000 That's really that marks the point when the door to 1892 01:58:04.199 --> 01:58:08.680 human research began to open up a little bit. One 1893 01:58:08.680 --> 01:58:10.840 of the things I think one of the reasons that 1894 01:58:10.880 --> 01:58:14.279 he was able to get that study going is that 1895 01:58:14.359 --> 01:58:18.960 he was not pointing to any kind of therapeutic use 1896 01:58:19.119 --> 01:58:23.760 at the time. For him, it was a direct observational study, 1897 01:58:24.119 --> 01:58:30.119 mechanistic study. Give these people, these subjects, increasing doses of DMT, 1898 01:58:31.039 --> 01:58:35.279 and pay attention to their stories, you know, And that's 1899 01:58:35.319 --> 01:58:37.880 really all he was doing. He was not postulating a 1900 01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:43.319 therapeutic use. He was interested in mechanisms. So that work 1901 01:58:43.479 --> 01:58:46.119 was done, and then it didn't really open up to 1902 01:58:46.239 --> 01:58:51.279 research until about two thousand and six when Roland Griffiths 1903 01:58:51.279 --> 01:58:57.960 group published the first paper on psilocybin as a mystical experience, 1904 01:58:58.119 --> 01:59:01.560 and that was that was really the point at which 1905 01:59:01.640 --> 01:59:08.119 the research began to expand and build on itself and 1906 01:59:08.199 --> 01:59:12.479 so on. Rick's study stood out because it was early 1907 01:59:13.359 --> 01:59:17.119 and people were you know, I mean, the results were 1908 01:59:17.239 --> 01:59:19.520 very interesting in a lot of ways. The results were 1909 01:59:19.840 --> 01:59:23.439 hard to make sense out of even for Rick, you know, 1910 01:59:24.319 --> 01:59:31.479 because he found that at these higher doses, intravenously high doses, 1911 01:59:31.560 --> 01:59:38.079 people were getting these near death experiences, alien abduction experiences, 1912 01:59:38.159 --> 01:59:41.680 all this crazy stuff you know that can happen on 1913 01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:45.119 d MT. And Rick was sort of you know, Rick 1914 01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:51.960 is kind of a you know, he's basically a clinician 1915 01:59:52.319 --> 01:59:54.520 in a sense, and he was coming at it from 1916 01:59:54.520 --> 01:59:58.640 that angle. How do you write your report to NIH 1917 01:59:58.800 --> 02:00:01.800 you know that you're that your subjects are having alien 1918 02:00:01.880 --> 02:00:06.199 abduction experiences. That's not going to get you the next grant. 1919 02:00:07.199 --> 02:00:08.000 That's not the. 1920 02:00:10.119 --> 02:00:11.399 Right exactly. 1921 02:00:11.760 --> 02:00:14.039 He finally reached a point where he just said, well 1922 02:00:14.079 --> 02:00:16.880 that's what they're reporting. I don't know, you know, he 1923 02:00:17.800 --> 02:00:21.920 discontinued his research and send his d MT back to 1924 02:00:22.119 --> 02:00:26.239 NIH because he said, I can't make sense out of it. 1925 02:00:26.279 --> 02:00:30.600 But Roland, of course had a whole team of clinicians 1926 02:00:31.399 --> 02:00:34.560 and they were able to run these very well controlled 1927 02:00:34.560 --> 02:00:38.800 studies on psilocybin and that's really what started it, you know, 1928 02:00:38.880 --> 02:00:41.520 And and then it just grew from there as people 1929 02:00:42.039 --> 02:00:47.560 you know, identified different conditions that it could address. And 1930 02:00:47.600 --> 02:00:51.920 you know, the spectrum is very broad. I guess if 1931 02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:55.199 there were such a thing as a you know, broad 1932 02:00:55.359 --> 02:01:00.680 spectrum mental health medicine, psilocybin would be in you know, 1933 02:01:01.199 --> 02:01:04.159 and the same way we have broad spectrum antibiotics. This 1934 02:01:04.319 --> 02:01:10.159 is like a broad spectrum medicine for everything from trauma 1935 02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:15.560 to addiction to depression to you know, well those are 1936 02:01:15.600 --> 02:01:21.159 probably the main things, but that's ninety percent there of 1937 02:01:21.199 --> 02:01:24.760 what people suffer from. And usually these things are you know, 1938 02:01:24.800 --> 02:01:29.039 they often go together. So it's it's good that these 1939 02:01:29.079 --> 02:01:32.119 things are being recognized, you know, because a lot of 1940 02:01:33.039 --> 02:01:37.479 you know, the regular cyclopharmaceuticals, especially pretty much that we 1941 02:01:37.600 --> 02:01:45.039 rely on the serotonin reuptake inhibitors the SSRIs, and they 1942 02:01:45.079 --> 02:01:48.359 don't really in most cases, solve the problem. They just 1943 02:01:48.399 --> 02:01:54.000 sort of band aid it over. And you know, psychedelics 1944 02:01:54.039 --> 02:01:56.439 hold out the possibility that you can get to the 1945 02:01:56.520 --> 02:02:00.439 root of these things and actually get cured, you know, 1946 02:02:00.840 --> 02:02:03.600 and that's why they're so promising. 1947 02:02:04.479 --> 02:02:08.239 Yeah, and we probably wouldn't recommend people doing high doses. 1948 02:02:08.560 --> 02:02:11.399 This is usually microdosing that's helping people with the with 1949 02:02:11.439 --> 02:02:14.960 these you know, depressive problems. You know, what would you 1950 02:02:15.159 --> 02:02:18.479 recommend for people who are interested in maybe looking into this, 1951 02:02:18.720 --> 02:02:21.279 you know, as like a microdosing schedule or something like that. 1952 02:02:22.760 --> 02:02:27.600 Well, there's lots of information about microdosing out there. 1953 02:02:28.000 --> 02:02:29.000 Uh. 1954 02:02:29.720 --> 02:02:34.039 The the microdosing guru to all this is a guy 1955 02:02:34.119 --> 02:02:41.319 named Jim Fatomant, and he's written books about microdosing. Paul 1956 02:02:41.359 --> 02:02:47.600 Stametz has some information on his website about microdosing. Ah, 1957 02:02:49.119 --> 02:02:54.199 I'm not sure. I'm convinced about microdosing myself. I think, uh, 1958 02:02:54.960 --> 02:02:58.920 it may be a placebo effect in a certain way. Uh, 1959 02:02:59.640 --> 02:03:03.079 And that's that's okay. Placebo effects are real, for sure, 1960 02:03:03.279 --> 02:03:08.600 they do have an effect. But the problem with microdosing 1961 02:03:08.720 --> 02:03:11.439 is there hasn't been a very rigorous study, you know, 1962 02:03:11.520 --> 02:03:15.640 a well designed clinical study that shows there is actually 1963 02:03:15.720 --> 02:03:20.880 an effect. There was one done somewhat recently in which 1964 02:03:22.319 --> 02:03:27.359 it was shown that the microdosing had a beneficial effect 1965 02:03:27.479 --> 02:03:31.000 I think on cognition is what it was. But then 1966 02:03:31.039 --> 02:03:35.960 the placebo also had a comparable effect. So these things 1967 02:03:36.000 --> 02:03:40.880 are hard to sort out in an experimental study design. 1968 02:03:41.119 --> 02:03:44.520 You know, people may I mean I feel like if 1969 02:03:44.560 --> 02:03:52.720 people feel like you know, microdosing LSD or well, microdosing mushrooms, 1970 02:03:53.439 --> 02:03:57.399 if they feel like there's a benefit, then I don't 1971 02:03:57.399 --> 02:03:59.319 see the harm in it. But I think they may 1972 02:03:59.319 --> 02:04:03.119 be kidding them. But you know, it doesn't matter because 1973 02:04:03.199 --> 02:04:05.600 you're not taking huge doses of it. 1974 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:09.159 Well yeah, I mean I think for me personally, I 1975 02:04:09.279 --> 02:04:12.880 never really got any benefit from microdosing. Personally, it came 1976 02:04:12.920 --> 02:04:15.680 from taking a little bit higher doses. But you know, 1977 02:04:15.920 --> 02:04:18.239 like you said, it makes sense. You know, higher doses 1978 02:04:18.279 --> 02:04:19.680 have helped me a lot. 1979 02:04:20.920 --> 02:04:24.880 Yeah, and higher doses do. I think the danger of 1980 02:04:26.119 --> 02:04:32.520 you know, like microdosing is that in some ways it's 1981 02:04:32.560 --> 02:04:35.920 an excuse never to look around the corner and see 1982 02:04:35.960 --> 02:04:39.680 what's really there. You know, people like to microdose, and 1983 02:04:39.800 --> 02:04:42.920 that's comfortable and they don't have much of an effect, 1984 02:04:43.720 --> 02:04:47.760 but at some point it's important to get the full effect, 1985 02:04:47.960 --> 02:04:51.960 you know, and you'll be surprised, you know, of what's 1986 02:04:52.000 --> 02:04:56.720 there to discover. So I think there is that it discourages, 1987 02:04:57.279 --> 02:04:59.920 you know, it's a temptation to just stay at that 1988 02:05:00.159 --> 02:05:05.079 low level and never really experienced the full spectrum of 1989 02:05:05.119 --> 02:05:09.159 effects that these things can can bring about. And then 1990 02:05:09.279 --> 02:05:16.600 I would say there is concern with respect to people 1991 02:05:16.600 --> 02:05:21.680 are microdosing basically with either psilocybin or LSD. Those are 1992 02:05:21.760 --> 02:05:29.000 the two main ones, and there's some concern about microdosing 1993 02:05:29.079 --> 02:05:38.000 with LSD because of the this problem known as valvular hypertrophy. 1994 02:05:38.880 --> 02:05:39.159 UH. 1995 02:05:39.279 --> 02:05:43.880 It's a growth in the in the valve tissues in 1996 02:05:43.920 --> 02:05:48.399 the heart that is caused by serotonin agonists. There's a 1997 02:05:48.439 --> 02:05:55.920 particular serotonin sub sub a sub type of serotonin receptors, 1998 02:05:55.960 --> 02:06:01.720 the five HC two B receptors, and LSD hits those. 1999 02:06:02.159 --> 02:06:06.359 Most of these psychedelics hit those, and it leads to 2000 02:06:06.840 --> 02:06:11.960 it can lead to this problem when you do it chronically. 2001 02:06:12.000 --> 02:06:14.039 When you do it once in a while, it's not 2002 02:06:14.159 --> 02:06:18.439 a problem. But when you do like microdosing is you know, 2003 02:06:18.560 --> 02:06:23.359 two or three times a week, anyway, So constantly hitting 2004 02:06:23.399 --> 02:06:29.359 that receptor may lead to this proliferation of valvular tissue, 2005 02:06:29.399 --> 02:06:34.079 which is not reversible, you know, so it's somewhat somewhat scary. 2006 02:06:34.239 --> 02:06:40.239 The only remedy is a valve replacement, now, you know. 2007 02:06:40.319 --> 02:06:44.199 Having said that, I don't want to alarm people, you know, 2008 02:06:45.199 --> 02:06:48.680 but they should be aware of this, and maybe if 2009 02:06:48.720 --> 02:06:52.560 they want a microdose, I recommend psilocybin is a better 2010 02:06:52.600 --> 02:06:57.680 thing to microdose with because the mechanism seems to be 2011 02:06:57.880 --> 02:07:03.399 that LSD binds to the receptor in a unique way 2012 02:07:03.720 --> 02:07:08.119 so that the pocket that it gets into in the 2013 02:07:08.159 --> 02:07:13.479 receptor folds over it and it's hard for it to dissociate. 2014 02:07:13.560 --> 02:07:18.760 So it's constantly stimulating that receptor, and that seems to 2015 02:07:18.760 --> 02:07:23.920 be what is connected to this valvular hypertrophy. There were 2016 02:07:24.359 --> 02:07:28.039 a couple of drugs back in the late nineties early 2017 02:07:28.119 --> 02:07:31.079 two thousands that were taken off the market because of 2018 02:07:31.119 --> 02:07:36.000 this effect. One of them was called Fennfann, and I 2019 02:07:36.000 --> 02:07:40.920 think it was being given for anxiety or I'm not 2020 02:07:40.960 --> 02:07:43.600 sure what, but it was actually taken off the market 2021 02:07:43.640 --> 02:07:50.720 because of this effect. So, you know, probably Jim Fatmin's 2022 02:07:50.800 --> 02:07:54.399 website talks about this. You can find literature about it 2023 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:58.680 if you look at the blog on the Hefter website, 2024 02:08:00.439 --> 02:08:03.520 there's a there's a reference to this, and I should 2025 02:08:03.600 --> 02:08:06.640 mention Hefter anyway if you have it already. 2026 02:08:07.520 --> 02:08:09.399 Uh, yeah, and your bio did. 2027 02:08:09.439 --> 02:08:13.119 But yeah, okay, people can look at the Hefter website 2028 02:08:13.159 --> 02:08:17.000 and in the blog there's a discussion of this, uh, 2029 02:08:17.239 --> 02:08:19.119 this issue with Microdosi. 2030 02:08:20.119 --> 02:08:22.920 To close out on today, I want to talk about 2031 02:08:23.239 --> 02:08:26.720 you the mckinn Academy, what you're doing there and the 2032 02:08:26.760 --> 02:08:28.760 Biognosis film that you're working on. 2033 02:08:29.840 --> 02:08:35.520 Okay, well, yeah, So the mckinna Academy is this nonprofit 2034 02:08:35.560 --> 02:08:38.439 I've found it a couple of years ago with some 2035 02:08:38.560 --> 02:08:42.319 colleagues and uh and basically, as you can tell from 2036 02:08:42.319 --> 02:08:49.399 the name, it's all about education. Originally, when we founded it, 2037 02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:52.079 the idea was that in part we were going to 2038 02:08:52.279 --> 02:08:54.199 a lot of what we were planning to do is 2039 02:08:54.279 --> 02:09:00.159 do conferences and retreats in probably in South America to 2040 02:09:02.800 --> 02:09:05.199 which is what we had been doing before. So it 2041 02:09:05.279 --> 02:09:08.199 was just extension of what we were doing, but we 2042 02:09:08.239 --> 02:09:14.920 want to wanted to formalize it as a nonprofit. Uh. 2043 02:09:14.960 --> 02:09:17.399 And that was our original idea. And then about the 2044 02:09:17.439 --> 02:09:22.439 time that we got incorporated, COVID hit and it made 2045 02:09:22.439 --> 02:09:26.840 it kind of difficult to do any any traveling to 2046 02:09:26.960 --> 02:09:30.560 do these conferences and so on. You know, Peru was 2047 02:09:30.640 --> 02:09:34.479 hit as hard as any place with COVID, So we 2048 02:09:34.560 --> 02:09:38.079 had to, uh, we had to pivot and try to 2049 02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:42.079 create a strong online presence, which I think we've done 2050 02:09:42.520 --> 02:09:49.079 more or less successfully. We've had various events, you know, 2051 02:09:49.319 --> 02:09:54.520 podcasts and and virtual conferences and that sort of thing. 2052 02:09:55.159 --> 02:09:59.079 So that that is what we're doing right now, and 2053 02:09:59.199 --> 02:10:03.079 trying to position our sales as a as an educational 2054 02:10:03.800 --> 02:10:08.520 uh resource for learning about plant medicines and that that 2055 02:10:08.640 --> 02:10:13.880 sort of thing. And we've offered courses and people can 2056 02:10:14.000 --> 02:10:16.359 look at you know again, I can I can put 2057 02:10:16.399 --> 02:10:20.600 it in the in the in the chat and it's 2058 02:10:20.640 --> 02:10:28.119 basically just Machenna dot Academy and if people go there, 2059 02:10:28.319 --> 02:10:32.760 they can look at the events and resources tabs and 2060 02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:37.760 see what kind of stuff we've been doing. And Biognosis 2061 02:10:37.800 --> 02:10:40.560 project is part of this, you know, this is this 2062 02:10:40.600 --> 02:10:43.920 is our biggest project right now. And what we're trying 2063 02:10:43.920 --> 02:10:48.600 to do the subtitle of Biognosis is we're trying to 2064 02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:56.079 bridge ancestral wisdom, ancestral plant knowledge with contemporary plant knowledge. So, uh, 2065 02:10:56.880 --> 02:11:02.079 what we're and our focus is on Amzian ethno medicine. 2066 02:11:02.199 --> 02:11:07.880 So what we're doing now right now is we're trying 2067 02:11:08.279 --> 02:11:12.800 we're making a series of documentaries that's going to kind 2068 02:11:12.800 --> 02:11:19.720 of give a snapshot of the state of traditional medicine 2069 02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:22.880 as it's been practiced in the Amazon in this sort 2070 02:11:22.880 --> 02:11:28.920 of co you know, post apocalyptic, post COVID, post IAWA's 2071 02:11:29.000 --> 02:11:35.640 guit tourism, post globalization environments. You know, these these indigenous 2072 02:11:35.680 --> 02:11:40.680 indigenous communities are really impacted by a lot of this, 2073 02:11:41.119 --> 02:11:46.039 but then the traditions survive, you know, they change and 2074 02:11:46.560 --> 02:11:51.000 that's what they do. So I don't see these you know, 2075 02:11:51.319 --> 02:11:54.079 I mean, the traditions are changing. It's not like it 2076 02:11:54.239 --> 02:11:58.479 was ten years ago even or twenty years ago. It's 2077 02:11:59.680 --> 02:12:04.319 but you know, it's worth documenting that. And it's in 2078 02:12:04.319 --> 02:12:10.560 this particular series where we're trying to initially work with 2079 02:12:10.680 --> 02:12:17.640 a person down in Peru in Akitos, who I've actually 2080 02:12:17.680 --> 02:12:21.159 worked with him for forty years and he is the 2081 02:12:21.359 --> 02:12:26.720 curator of the Iberia at UNAP and the University in 2082 02:12:27.560 --> 02:12:33.880 University in Nacionale Amazonia Parduan in Iquitos, and he is 2083 02:12:34.920 --> 02:12:39.680 he just has tremendous plant knowledge, you know, having lived 2084 02:12:39.680 --> 02:12:42.760 there all of his life and then actually being trained 2085 02:12:42.800 --> 02:12:46.680 as a scientist, so he brings both perspectives to it. 2086 02:12:47.239 --> 02:12:50.800 And so we're trying to document what he knows because 2087 02:12:50.800 --> 02:12:54.119 he never writes anything down right, So we're trying to 2088 02:12:54.439 --> 02:12:58.600 kind of do our initial documentary about one and what 2089 02:12:58.680 --> 02:13:03.359 he knows and what his environment is, you know, in 2090 02:13:03.399 --> 02:13:07.600 his role at the university. But then you know, we're 2091 02:13:07.600 --> 02:13:10.880 hoping to get funding for we have the funding to 2092 02:13:11.000 --> 02:13:16.000 make that short documentary, then we're looking for support to 2093 02:13:16.279 --> 02:13:21.239 make about six or seven more short documentaries, you know, 2094 02:13:21.399 --> 02:13:25.760 thirty to forty five minutes that will document different aspects 2095 02:13:25.840 --> 02:13:30.319 of the contemporary scene down there, you know, of which 2096 02:13:30.359 --> 02:13:34.720 Ayahuaska is very important, but it's not the whole story, 2097 02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:40.680 you know, so we want to look at difference, you know, 2098 02:13:40.760 --> 02:13:43.960 go down there and look at how is this tradition 2099 02:13:44.800 --> 02:13:50.279 being practiced now and especially under the impact of global 2100 02:13:50.279 --> 02:13:55.800 warming and cultural disruption and all of these disruptive influences. 2101 02:13:55.880 --> 02:13:58.119 So I think it's going to be a pretty interesting 2102 02:14:00.079 --> 02:14:04.600 documentary series. We're hoping that working with a great uh 2103 02:14:05.640 --> 02:14:10.479 production house in New Brunswick named Heming's House, and they 2104 02:14:10.520 --> 02:14:16.560 have done films for Netflix and National Geographic and Discovery 2105 02:14:16.640 --> 02:14:20.039 Channel and so on, so we're hoping that uh they 2106 02:14:20.039 --> 02:14:23.199 can you know, we can put together a teaser reel 2107 02:14:23.359 --> 02:14:27.960 essentially and they will pick pick this up, uh and 2108 02:14:27.960 --> 02:14:31.880 and fund this series. That said, though, if any of 2109 02:14:31.920 --> 02:14:37.119 your your fans, your constituents want to support the McKenna Academy, 2110 02:14:37.600 --> 02:14:40.920 we welcome that. And and we are a five oh 2111 02:14:40.920 --> 02:14:44.279 one C three nonprofits so we can even give tax 2112 02:14:44.359 --> 02:14:49.399 deductions if you live in the States, and uh, you 2113 02:14:49.439 --> 02:14:54.399 know we're you can you can read read about our 2114 02:14:54.479 --> 02:14:58.359 plans on the website, what what we've got, the pipeline 2115 02:14:58.439 --> 02:15:02.399 and so on. So yeah, we'd like you to take 2116 02:15:02.439 --> 02:15:06.279 a look at it. And also even if you don't donate, 2117 02:15:06.600 --> 02:15:09.600 just enjoy the content there. There's quite a lot of 2118 02:15:09.640 --> 02:15:14.960 stuff out there. You know. We did a early in April. 2119 02:15:15.119 --> 02:15:21.399 April was the actually March, I guess March this year 2120 02:15:21.439 --> 02:15:26.079 with the fiftieth anniversary of the experiment at Lachererra which 2121 02:15:26.119 --> 02:15:30.439 is kind of infamous. So we did an event around that, 2122 02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:34.359 and we've done a number of events, you know, and 2123 02:15:35.000 --> 02:15:40.760 podcasts and so on, so you know, this is what 2124 02:15:40.800 --> 02:15:43.319 we do. Given the constraints of the time, you know, 2125 02:15:43.479 --> 02:15:48.279 and we'd like to do in person conferences and maybe 2126 02:15:48.319 --> 02:15:52.239 we can get to that later this you know, early 2127 02:15:52.399 --> 02:15:57.119 next year. I mean, nobody knows that COVID keeps everybody guessing. 2128 02:15:58.039 --> 02:16:01.439 Yeah, yeah, but it looking forward to it. You've done 2129 02:16:01.560 --> 02:16:05.279 fantastic work looking forward to the film, and I will 2130 02:16:05.279 --> 02:16:07.960 put all those links in the description so the audience 2131 02:16:08.000 --> 02:16:11.000 can go directly and check that out. Doctor mckinneth, thank 2132 02:16:11.079 --> 02:16:14.840 you so much for coming on. Fantastic information, and I'd 2133 02:16:14.880 --> 02:16:16.680 love to have you back on sometime in the future. 2134 02:16:17.439 --> 02:16:22.159 I'd love to come on. Absolutely great. We won't make 2135 02:16:22.199 --> 02:16:26.560 a date, but will we'll encounter downstream and we'll do it. 2136 02:16:26.520 --> 02:16:30.840 Again, definitely, definitely. Well, thank you so much again, fantastic 2137 02:16:30.880 --> 02:16:34.120 information and until next time, everyone, have an excellent evening. 2138 02:16:34.239 --> 02:16:35.479 We'll talk again tomorrow. 2139 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:36.879 Okay, all right. 2140 02:16:39.000 --> 02:16:43.079 If you're looking to start your therapeutic microdosing journey but 2141 02:16:43.200 --> 02:16:46.200 don't know where to start, especially when looking for the 2142 02:16:46.280 --> 02:16:51.319 highest quality ingredients, including new tropics and what you'd expect 2143 02:16:51.360 --> 02:16:54.799 from a true microdose capsule, check out our friends at 2144 02:16:54.840 --> 02:16:59.559 Brain Supreme. They offer the absolute highest quality ingredients so 2145 02:16:59.639 --> 02:17:03.760 you can start your microdosing journey knowing that you're getting 2146 02:17:04.000 --> 02:17:08.360 top notch ingredients. 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