Speaker 1: Big Food and on with Cliff and Bubo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like to say subscribe and rade.
Speaker 2: It five star and.
Speaker 1: Greatest gone yesterday listening watching Limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 2: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 3: Hey, Cliff, we got a great guest.
Speaker 1: Today, Yes we do. This is one we've been looking
Speaker 1: forward to for a long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to find out what's going on
Speaker 1: with you or tell what's going on with me, man,
Speaker 1: I just want to jump right into this one, so
Speaker 1: uh exactly. Yeah, why don't we just not waste anybody's
Speaker 1: time and just bring it in. So our guest today
Speaker 1: is a legend in bigfooting and I can always call
Speaker 1: him the second generation. You know, it's not quite it's
Speaker 1: not the four Horsemen level, although this gentleman worked with
Speaker 1: all of the horsemen and many many more, probably of
Speaker 1: the unsung heroes that don't get the credit they deserve.
Speaker 1: So he kind of a second generation as far as
Speaker 1: bigfoot goes. But you know enough of me, man, This
Speaker 1: is Rick Nole. We have Rick Knowl on the podcast today. Rick,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for spending some time with Bobo
Speaker 1: and I today.
Speaker 4: Thanks, y Hey, how's it going all right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You are a man of few words, so we're going
Speaker 1: to do the best we can to get you talking
Speaker 1: on this one. I've always I've known you for a
Speaker 1: long time. I'm not Cassie. I know you very well,
Speaker 1: but we've certainly crossed paths many times. And you're a
Speaker 1: man of few words and kind of quiet and in
Speaker 1: the background. And I do have a great amount of
Speaker 1: respect for people with your temperament and bigfoot. But you've
Speaker 1: been bigfooting since the late sixties. Is that accurate?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep. I started off down in Olympia when they
Speaker 4: were the first time they tried to change the state
Speaker 4: animal to bigfoot. Dick Grover tried to do that, and
Speaker 4: he had this old style wooden piano down on capital
Speaker 4: steps in Olampia and nobody was playing it, but on
Speaker 4: top of it where these bigfoot casts. And he would
Speaker 4: stop senators or whatever they the representatives were, their titles,
Speaker 4: walking up down the steps to show them the cast
Speaker 4: and say, we really want to have this animal protected,
Speaker 4: and the best way to do that is to make
Speaker 4: it the state for the state animals. That's what got
Speaker 4: me interested in the beginning.
Speaker 1: But did you see this on TV or in person
Speaker 1: or no?
Speaker 4: It was a news article, And so I went down
Speaker 4: there and then I met up with him. And then
Speaker 4: the next thing that happened was there was a sighting
Speaker 4: pretty close to my house. A kid and his girlfriend
Speaker 4: were driving a truck their parents, his parents' truck, and
Speaker 4: it had one of those racks and they put ladders
Speaker 4: in it stuff. Yeah, And he claimed that they saw
Speaker 4: a bigfoot across the road and run into a sign
Speaker 4: and bend it with their hand and the hand was
Speaker 4: not lifted up or anything that was the height of
Speaker 4: the of the hand on the end of the arm.
Speaker 4: Grover came down for that too, and then he introduced
Speaker 4: me to a project Discovery and then they saying one thing,
Speaker 4: went to another and got more and more involved.
Speaker 3: You're a high school kid, weren't you.
Speaker 4: At that time? Yeah? Yeah, I was. I was a boy.
Speaker 3: That was just that.
Speaker 4: I think that was my last year in high school.
Speaker 1: Is that the same That must be the same sign
Speaker 1: that Mark Marcel is now working hard to recover.
Speaker 4: Could be at scratch marks on the back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And this person lived out and I think
Speaker 1: in Randall or something. I think Mark finally tracked the
Speaker 1: person down is living in Randall, but he had a
Speaker 1: tumultuous life and I think he abandoned the house where
Speaker 1: the sign was in the front yard as the last
Speaker 1: we heard so, but Mark has the address and he's wondering, well,
Speaker 1: maybe somebody still has it.
Speaker 4: Who knows they could. But on my investigation of it,
Speaker 4: the parents loaned them the truck and there was damage
Speaker 4: under the truck, and the kid was late, and the
Speaker 4: parents of the girl was upset that they were out
Speaker 4: so late. I don't know what they were doing, but
Speaker 4: it wasn't bigfoot hunting at the time until they came
Speaker 4: home and said it was bigfoot they saw. And I
Speaker 4: kind of think that maybe they backed into that sign
Speaker 4: and hit it with a ladder or something from on
Speaker 4: top of that that rack, But I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 4: the scratches were even, they were at an angle, they
Speaker 4: were curved, but I just don't see fingernails being able
Speaker 4: to make that, and I don't think bigfoot wears rings.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So, now, how did you hear about that sighting?
Speaker 4: I believe that was in report in the news.
Speaker 1: This is nineteen sixty nine or seventy or something. There
Speaker 1: was no Internet, there was no collection of reports at
Speaker 1: that time beyond John Green.
Speaker 4: I think someone heard it and they contacted the SEATTLEPI
Speaker 4: that was the newspaper.
Speaker 1: So that you met. When you said Grover came down?
Speaker 1: Where you talking about Dick Grover or Grover Krantz, Dick Grover,
Speaker 1: Dick Grober? Okay, and what who is he? I'm not
Speaker 1: familiar with that name, but it sounds like I've heard
Speaker 1: it before. I just can't place it.
Speaker 4: Well, that was his claim to fame. And so when
Speaker 4: he ever does anything with Bigfoot, he's looking for things
Speaker 4: that Bigfoot interacts with other than people. So he was
Speaker 4: looking for signs where it would run into a sign,
Speaker 4: it would destroy a fence, it would uh leave handprints,
Speaker 4: it would destroy the clapboards on a house, you know,
Speaker 4: stuff like that. And so he likes signs.
Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent sure. Now Grover is the name
Speaker 1: that Mark Myrcel was telling me about. He is looking
Speaker 1: for this sign. I'm one hundred percent sure of that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Now that's finally coming back to me. That's so interesting,
Speaker 1: and you know that you might ow I didn't even
Speaker 1: think about this. Now I've been working really hard lately
Speaker 1: to track down the address of the house that had
Speaker 1: the uddy handprint on it in nineteen sixty two. And
Speaker 1: Fort Bragg. You wouldn't be able to help me with that,
Speaker 1: would you, Rick Fort Bragg? You know that muddy handprint
Speaker 1: that was on the outside. There's a picture of an
Speaker 1: artist reconstruction of it in John Green's books that the
Speaker 1: artist rendition of it was done by Chuck Edmonds, the
Speaker 1: artist teacher, the art teacher from Ashland, Oregon.
Speaker 4: That sounds like something that Renee would have. Most of
Speaker 4: the stuff was surprising. Renee collected a lot of stuff,
Speaker 4: and John used it in his writings and his books
Speaker 4: and stuff. John didn't have a lot of physical material.
Speaker 4: He didn't collect that stuff. He would have it. But
Speaker 4: if if anybody would collect that, that would be Renee.
Speaker 4: So probably his his son up in Canada has it.
Speaker 1: But how did you meet Renee and those guys?
Speaker 4: Ah?
Speaker 1: Renee and I get it, man, I can't remember what
Speaker 1: I had for breakfast yesterday.
Speaker 4: Well, I remember all the stories, I just don't remember
Speaker 4: exactly the first time. Let me see, here's the first
Speaker 4: time I met John Green.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go through all of them. You might just
Speaker 1: whatever you remember.
Speaker 3: Let us know.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess the first person I met was actually
Speaker 4: Peter Burn, so that would be the first person I think.
Speaker 4: So I was going to college. I had that interest
Speaker 4: in bigfoot, and I did a paper in anthropology and
Speaker 4: I saw in the news about Peter Burn having a
Speaker 4: museum and the Dallas actually it was an information center
Speaker 4: as really was not a museum, but anyway, I went
Speaker 4: down there, talked to him, asked him about coming up
Speaker 4: to talk at the school, and he said, sure, he
Speaker 4: could do that. He has an actual program that he
Speaker 4: can show. So I hooked it all up. Out of
Speaker 4: them involved.
Speaker 3: Which college was it?
Speaker 4: That was Green River Community College. So he gave the
Speaker 4: talk there and that was pretty cool, and we sort
Speaker 4: of associated ourselves. We had a little club kind of
Speaker 4: thing in the college and we would go out and
Speaker 4: look for stuff we got on the TV. We got
Speaker 4: on a couple of Northwest TV shows about looking in
Speaker 4: the woods for Bigfoot, and we would take trips down
Speaker 4: to see Peter. And I also went with stayed down
Speaker 4: there with Peter for a little while and when he
Speaker 4: was still married with d D and we went on
Speaker 4: a couple of trips, not not a whole bunch, but
Speaker 4: a couple of trips out in the woods on some
Speaker 4: called in reports and I drove his vehicle his internationals
Speaker 4: and what happened was there was a report he wanted
Speaker 4: me a check on. And at the time I was going,
Speaker 4: I was in school with David Smith and David Smith
Speaker 4: I had David and I hooked up way before Peter Burnet.
Speaker 4: But David and I were contacted and we went out
Speaker 4: to North Bend because there was some footprints and there
Speaker 4: was just a couple and they were in the news
Speaker 4: and they had showed a guy supposedly finding these tracks.
Speaker 4: And then the next day there was another newspaper article.
Speaker 4: So I already knew about this sighting but or not
Speaker 4: sighting but footprint fie before Peter called us. And the
Speaker 4: next day there was a guy that had a broken
Speaker 4: foot and there was like this weird thing that was
Speaker 4: attached to the cast underneath his heel sticking out like
Speaker 4: a heel on a shoe. I guess because he to
Speaker 4: wear cowboy boots or something. I don't know, maybe he
Speaker 4: had to have a heel on the cast so he
Speaker 4: didn't walk with a limp or something. But I don't
Speaker 4: know how he broke his foot or anything like that,
Speaker 4: but they had a picture of his cast facing the
Speaker 4: camera and him in the background. So the casts looked
Speaker 4: really huge, his foot looked really huge, and he had
Speaker 4: three toe sticking out the top. Those weren't cast, and
Speaker 4: that the footprints in the ground were three toed, they
Speaker 4: weren't five toed, and they didn't have that little bump
Speaker 4: in the bottom. But it was kind of sort of similar.
Speaker 4: I don't know about the size because there was nothing
Speaker 4: to compare the two. So that was the next day
Speaker 4: that that picture appeared. I still have the articles, and
Speaker 4: so I was planning on going out there. I asked
Speaker 4: David that he wanted to go, and then we got
Speaker 4: a call from Peter and he says, you need to
Speaker 4: go out there and check this out because it's getting
Speaker 4: a lot of news down here. So Dave and I
Speaker 4: went out there. We camped, and we ran into Dennis
Speaker 4: Skates and his buddy Dennis Skates and I forget who
Speaker 4: the other guy's name used to live in on the
Speaker 4: way up to well, it was on highway too. It
Speaker 4: was in like around concrete or something like that, and
Speaker 4: they were helping John Greenow to do investigations in Washington
Speaker 4: State and he Dennis Skates was was a character. But
Speaker 4: they were trying to cast a track and they destroyed
Speaker 4: everything they tried to pull it out. They were making
Speaker 4: fun of us because you know, we said we were
Speaker 4: with with Peter Burn, and at that time John Green
Speaker 4: and Peter Burn already hated each other. So I saw
Speaker 4: their cast. I said, you know, you got a problem
Speaker 4: with that. I don't think it's going to pull. And
Speaker 4: they said, we use city seck or you don't know
Speaker 4: what you're talking about. We know what we're doing. So
Speaker 4: we left and we came back later and there was
Speaker 4: just pieces of the plaster all over the place because
Speaker 4: it broke when they tried to pull it, and so
Speaker 4: we just took pictures of it because I didn't have
Speaker 4: any casting material at the time, so we took pictures
Speaker 4: of it. And then we walked around and further up
Speaker 4: on a dirt road above the river north fork of
Speaker 4: the Stilly I believe, or not Silly, but whatever that
Speaker 4: river is named now. But we walked up above there
Speaker 4: was a road that went up and there was a
Speaker 4: flat like there used to be a logging show where
Speaker 4: they put the Wench and stuff up there, and the
Speaker 4: trucks would get loaded and there was hundreds of tracks
Speaker 4: up there, Chris grass all over the place. So I
Speaker 4: took a bunch of pictures of Dave trying to space
Speaker 4: himself out on those tracks. Whoever made those tracks, they
Speaker 4: were pretty long in between. And we came down the
Speaker 4: road to go back to where we were camped. We
Speaker 4: had tents and there was Peter and Deedie and another
Speaker 4: person that worked with Peter, and they all said, well,
Speaker 4: you know what, we're going to stay here and we're
Speaker 4: going to investigate a little bit. So we all camped
Speaker 4: and we went back up the next day and Peter
Speaker 4: went out in the woods, went and looked at some
Speaker 4: of the tracks, and he found mouse that was stepped on,
Speaker 4: and I got a picture of him pulling up a
Speaker 4: squashed mouse and from the footprint, and then he said,
Speaker 4: we were going to go and talk to the actual
Speaker 4: person that found the tracks, and then we're going to
Speaker 4: talk to the person that had the cast. So we
Speaker 4: went to the house where this guy lived in North Bend,
Speaker 4: got in there. We were sitting around his wood stove
Speaker 4: and he's telling a story and everything, and then we
Speaker 4: heard a knock on the door and walks John Green,
Speaker 4: and Peter and John just their whole body shook, looking
Speaker 4: at each other like like you know, a dog in
Speaker 4: a camp. We're about ready to fight. And so we
Speaker 4: finished up what we were saying and we got out of there.
Speaker 4: But John got out of the building and waited. Well,
Speaker 4: we left and then we went over to the other house.
Speaker 4: That's how we met John Green. That was the first
Speaker 4: time I met John Green.
Speaker 1: Did he hold it against you that you were working
Speaker 1: with Peter at that point or.
Speaker 4: As he did? He didn't want to talk to me
Speaker 4: at all, And later on he didn't want to talk
Speaker 4: to me at all. And then it was only until
Speaker 4: I met up with Renee and became friends with him
Speaker 4: that John started worming up to me.
Speaker 3: Were you a fan of John Green? Yeah?
Speaker 4: He was. The first books, the first books I read
Speaker 4: about it was is Big eight and a half eleven
Speaker 4: by paperbacks, you know, the first the red and the yellow,
Speaker 4: the yellow one first and the red one on the
Speaker 4: track of the file of the Sasquatch file.
Speaker 3: That must have suck, because I mean, like I can
Speaker 3: imagine like having one of your heroes come in and
Speaker 3: also he thinks you're a dick right on the bat,
Speaker 3: just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, and Renee never wrote. Renee hadn't
Speaker 4: written his book yet, and Grover wasn't involved yet. Peter
Speaker 4: hadn't written a book yet, and I started seeing flaws
Speaker 4: in the chink of Peter burn at that time. He
Speaker 4: asked me to go to Little Eagle, South Dakota to
Speaker 4: look into some bigfoot reports back there. And so I
Speaker 4: went back there and I met up with a guy
Speaker 4: that wrote a really nasty book. And I can't remember
Speaker 4: his name, but I have his book and it's a
Speaker 4: classic now everybody likes it. And I talked to him.
Speaker 4: He says, so you work with Peter, huh. I go, well,
Speaker 4: sort of. He asked me to do stuff, you know,
Speaker 4: And I go out and I investigate farm he can't
Speaker 4: get everywhere. And I got a phone call from Peter
Speaker 4: later that night saying, you know, Rick, I need to
Speaker 4: have I'm being heckled by this character Reneede to hind
Speaker 4: it and I need to do something about it, and
Speaker 4: blah blah blah blah. And it ended up where he
Speaker 4: went to use my name to by having me call
Speaker 4: Renee from Little Eagle saying I'm going to be at
Speaker 4: such and such a place. Can you meet me there?
Speaker 4: And Rene Hardy knew me at all, but he went there,
Speaker 4: I met Renee. That's that's not when I met him.
Speaker 4: So I met Renee. I just don't remember when it
Speaker 4: might have been. I might have met him at Oh
Speaker 4: I know where I met him. Okay, there was a
Speaker 4: bus driver and Hope that claimed to have a big
Speaker 4: foot run across the road in front of him, and
Speaker 4: all these passengers saw it. Turned out to be a fake.
Speaker 4: So I was there, Renee was. He had just left
Speaker 4: and we went into Harrison afterwards. I met up with Renee.
Speaker 4: Then I remember, that's when I met him the first time.
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Speaker 3: Was that pretty tense, those things, with the the divisions
Speaker 3: there and the rivalries already? Like, was that was it
Speaker 3: would it be uncomfortable to those early get togethers.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was. It was pretty uncomfortable at UBC conference.
Speaker 4: That's where I first met Grover Krantz and he came
Speaker 4: in and he was like, matter of fact, this is
Speaker 4: the gun I would use, this the bullet I would use.
Speaker 4: And he turned that place into to kill or not
Speaker 4: to kill and had nothing to do with what the
Speaker 4: original story was about that conference, you know. And for
Speaker 4: the time, I didn't have a lot of money and
Speaker 4: that was like one hundred and fifty bucks to go
Speaker 4: that thing. And it was years later that they actually
Speaker 4: produced a book about it and published the papers. That's
Speaker 4: also the where I met Alan Barry and we listened
Speaker 4: to the first We were the first people to hear
Speaker 4: in the Bigfoot community, the other than Alan Berry and
Speaker 4: morehead those tapes and we thought that was interesting. I
Speaker 4: met Bob Gimmin there, Peter Atheson.
Speaker 3: Real Murderers, Rother that's an all star Hall of Fame lineup.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't think Matt was around at that time.
Speaker 3: No, he was too young.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think anything in Ohio was going
Speaker 4: on at that time either. The stuff going down in Texas,
Speaker 4: Canada was they had.
Speaker 3: The movie Oh Boggie Creek.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that came out a year later after
Speaker 4: Roger Patterson's movie or something.
Speaker 1: That was seventy two seventy three in that zone there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the legend of Boggie Creek, so that, but you know,
Speaker 1: it was reverberating up throughout the nineteen seventies of course, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I don't think anybody from down there was
Speaker 4: at this conference. Either was two scientific so Sprague was there.
Speaker 4: There was a bunch of people that were you know,
Speaker 4: listened to as scientists. The first time I met Meldrum
Speaker 4: was at one of the UBC Harrison Hot Springs conferences
Speaker 4: and he was really young dead and Steinberg was there also.
Speaker 4: That's when I met Steinberg and Krantz was there. I
Speaker 4: got a picture of Krantz with the skull and he
Speaker 4: liked to shock people with things that he would say.
Speaker 4: I don't know why, but hey.
Speaker 1: It's that personality. Like you know when that famous clip
Speaker 1: is probably in search over one of those you know,
Speaker 1: where he says that somebody who you know, talking about
Speaker 1: the cripple foot stuff in Bossburg, like whoever did this?
Speaker 4: Is?
Speaker 1: You know da Vinci like creativity and way smarter than me.
Speaker 1: And that person doesn't exist. And you know when he's
Speaker 1: when he lays that line down, you can almost see him.
Speaker 1: You see his eyes are smiling and he can his
Speaker 1: mouth just starts to curl up because he knew, he
Speaker 1: knew he was planning a bomb there, and he thought
Speaker 1: it was hilarious.
Speaker 4: I went when I was at his house one time,
Speaker 4: I had cast at his feet and took a picture
Speaker 4: of him and his dog with the dog up on
Speaker 4: his shoulders.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you're the photographer.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm a photographer that took that, and that's why
Speaker 4: he's posed that way. That was just one of his
Speaker 4: favorite pictures.
Speaker 3: You're a photographer in the Smithsonian. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 4: I also was at the Puella when Mark Pinacher, the
Speaker 4: ex cop, said that he saw a bigfoot and the
Speaker 4: kids saw the bigfoot, and there was tracks up there,
Speaker 4: and then there was a bunch of recordings of screams
Speaker 4: and stuff, and someone would run around and pound on
Speaker 4: people's houses. Because what happened was the areas started growing
Speaker 4: and the cities were expanding into the woods, and that
Speaker 4: was the hilltop above Pualla and there was new housing
Speaker 4: projects going in there. There used to be a lot
Speaker 4: of animals up there and they were being pushed out,
Speaker 4: and they thought that maybe Bigfoot was one of those
Speaker 4: animals being pushed out.
Speaker 1: Since you were involved in that, did you ever meet
Speaker 1: Joel Hurd?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's become a good friend of mine. Oh yeah, he
Speaker 1: lives locally. When he's in town, we try to have
Speaker 1: lunch or something, and he's always at our events. So
Speaker 1: if you do ever want to come down to do
Speaker 1: an event, I can almost guarantee Jobel show up.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So you see most of the Bigfoot researchers, they
Speaker 4: probably have more information and data on other researchers than
Speaker 4: they actually do on this phenomenon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. Well, even still nowadays you
Speaker 1: look at the YouTube or something and all the bigfooters
Speaker 1: are talking about themselves or somebody else. They're not talking
Speaker 1: about the animals. It seems right.
Speaker 3: How much did you get to work with Bob Tipmos?
Speaker 3: Did you get out on the field of Tipmos?
Speaker 4: You know, i'd never met Titmus really, Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 4: get to meet him.
Speaker 1: What about Patterson?
Speaker 4: No, I didn't meet him, but I joined his club. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I joined that club, got the book. I was too
Speaker 4: young actually to get over to Yakba, even though my
Speaker 4: relatives lived over there. But I did meet Bob, and
Speaker 4: Bob is a lot different now than he was at
Speaker 4: the UBC conference. It was pretty reserved back then, not
Speaker 4: believing in anything, and now it's almost like he's a proponent.
Speaker 4: I don't know if he's seen the light or what,
Speaker 4: but in his later days, but he didn't really talk
Speaker 4: about that much. Then.
Speaker 1: Did you get a chance to spend any time in
Speaker 1: the field with any of these folks, because I'd like
Speaker 1: to what my ultimate question will be, can you compare
Speaker 1: and contrast their field methodologies here?
Speaker 3: You're impressed with the most Mayan Chinski.
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, he's good. He's really good. I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, sorry, Monto. He was supposed to be a
Speaker 4: field person for a museum back east, and he was
Speaker 4: on a couple of shows. I took him out. He
Speaker 4: saw some elk prance and says, there's some humans here.
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, that was another person that's really good.
Speaker 4: I didn't go out in the woods with Well. I
Speaker 4: went out of the woods with Peter Matheson, and I
Speaker 4: was shocked that he doesn't have that much experience because
Speaker 4: he you know, he was out with gorilla researchers. He
Speaker 4: was all over the place.
Speaker 3: He went to Nepal, he went out with melgum And
Speaker 3: and min Chinsky. I mean I was I was impressed,
Speaker 3: like he had some Yeah he got out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean when I was in the coast cart
Speaker 4: I read his first book on bluewater white death. It
Speaker 4: was called Blue Meridian. It was about the great white sharks,
Speaker 4: and they contracted him to be on the on the
Speaker 4: ship and write a book about it. And man, I
Speaker 4: just loved that book. And when I finally met him
Speaker 4: at UBC, I thought, well, you're really young to write
Speaker 4: that book. I mean, that just blew me away. So
Speaker 4: then later on when I met him and he said, uh,
Speaker 4: when he wrote snow Leopard and stuff. I loved the book.
Speaker 4: But when I met him, he was more like a hippie.
Speaker 4: He would walk around barefoot out in the woods out there,
Speaker 4: and I'm going, what do you Why are you walking
Speaker 4: into barefoot? He says, I just feel more uncomfortable doing
Speaker 4: this is what I did all over the world. I said, well,
Speaker 4: you know, you can get diseases that way out here,
Speaker 4: because we have goats and elk and not not very
Speaker 4: many out there, but deer and goat and bear, and
Speaker 4: they have parasitic worms that can or that are in
Speaker 4: the soil and it can get up in your go through
Speaker 4: your heels and your the sole of your foot. Freaked
Speaker 4: him out. He was wearing his shoes after that. And
Speaker 4: then I found out that he died a few years later.
Speaker 4: That was so sad. But I fed him. I cooked
Speaker 4: him in uh and uh doctor Meldrum breakfast, and I
Speaker 4: screwed up the soft boiled eggs pat but he made
Speaker 4: him anyway.
Speaker 3: But you guys, is that when you had the rock
Speaker 3: incident when you were a cat with.
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, that was on We were filming King Kong,
Speaker 4: the real King Kong. Gichan Epitheca is the real King Kong. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he was there with Meldrum and Isak Masinski's was there
Speaker 4: and we went across the river with the horse and stuff.
Speaker 4: That was the second That was the first movie we
Speaker 4: would especially we did, and then the second one, Giganta,
Speaker 4: was out further in the same area North Cascades. So
Speaker 4: that's sort of you know, you've got to ask people,
Speaker 4: the researchers, you know, what are you doing? Are you
Speaker 4: are you one of these ambulance chasers. You go after
Speaker 4: like a sighting or do you have a study area?
Speaker 4: And if you have a study area, how do you
Speaker 4: define this study area? So I told everybody that I
Speaker 4: have a study area, and Renee asked me what is
Speaker 4: a study area? I said, well, it's an ecoregions. It's
Speaker 4: like a watershed, but it's not cut off by water.
Speaker 4: It's an ecoregion. So everything in that region has flora
Speaker 4: fauna very similar to one another, and if a species
Speaker 4: is in there, it's part of the food chain somehow.
Speaker 4: So you know, you study everything in that area. You
Speaker 4: just don't try and look for bigfoot sightings. That's if
Speaker 4: you just do the bigfoot sightings, then that's ambulance chasing.
Speaker 4: So if I wanted to find a black bear, and
Speaker 4: there's twenty thousand of them here in Washington, I wanted
Speaker 4: to find a black bear, would I wait till I
Speaker 4: hear about someone seeing one or would I just go
Speaker 4: out in the woods to where I know the food
Speaker 4: that they eat is.
Speaker 1: And unless, of course, somebody sees one in your area.
Speaker 4: Well, even if you get there, what are you going
Speaker 4: to see? The only thing we've ever seen is footprints.
Speaker 4: Nobody ever goes out to an area a researcher. At
Speaker 4: least someone says, I saw a bigfoot here, I'm going
Speaker 4: to go and see what I can find, see the footprints,
Speaker 4: and then actually see the creature. The only person I've
Speaker 4: ever heard someone similar than that would be Patterson. He
Speaker 4: heard a bunch of footprints were up in that area
Speaker 4: over and over and over and over, and he went
Speaker 4: there and he photographed one.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: We actually we did that met the museum because the
Speaker 1: museum is just a front, so can we can pay
Speaker 1: our bills and go to the field. Basically, we have
Speaker 1: a study area we've been pulling some prints out of
Speaker 1: and one of my guys saw a sasquatch there in August.
Speaker 1: But again that's a research area, as you're saying, you know, like.
Speaker 4: For me, I look at the food sources mainly, and
Speaker 4: it could be taste, it could be you know how
Speaker 4: the quality of the food. Certain areas have better berries
Speaker 4: in other areas because of the minerals in there. They
Speaker 4: taste better, they're not as tart, or they got more nourishment,
Speaker 4: or there's a lot more of them. Maybe they're not.
Speaker 4: They're Himalayan blackberries. There, or maybe native native ones with
Speaker 4: the Indians used to hoard over are not as good
Speaker 4: as the Himalayans. That the Himalayans have a lot more
Speaker 4: berries than our native ones, but the Himalayans have a
Speaker 4: lot more stickers and they grow. It's like they take
Speaker 4: over their weed. But I also look at the fish,
Speaker 4: and the fish could easily hide a population of animals.
Speaker 4: The fish they are on a cycle of going out
Speaker 4: for a couple of years and coming back, and they
Speaker 4: go up a river when the river is flow at
Speaker 4: a certain speed and go up and they spawn and
Speaker 4: they die and they end up on the shoreline up there.
Speaker 4: And so I like, I go. I told this to
Speaker 4: Doug Hicheck. He goes, well, you've been doing rick a
Speaker 4: phone call recently and I said, well, I've been going
Speaker 4: up in the woods and I'm visiting these historic places.
Speaker 4: Goes historic place. I go, yeah, down in Oregon, I've
Speaker 4: been going around to some of these historic places where
Speaker 4: they have big ones. I'm what I'm looking for is
Speaker 4: these specific blocks in the river where salmon can't make
Speaker 4: it up. And he goes, what are those? And I said, well,
Speaker 4: they're waterfalls basically, And he goes, you've got to do
Speaker 4: something else waterfalls. You got to research some better than waterfalls.
Speaker 4: I said, no, no, that right, there could actually be
Speaker 4: something to go to go up to a waterfall and
Speaker 4: then from that waterfall down on the river. If salmon
Speaker 4: go up there, either it's the pink shnow chum saw
Speaker 4: guy whatever, they'll end up on the shoreline there dead
Speaker 4: and something's eating, something's taking them. It could be birds,
Speaker 4: it could be bear, it could be bigfoot. Who knows.
Speaker 4: He still doesn't think it's a good idea for me
Speaker 4: to tell people I go up to waterfalls and a photograph.
Speaker 1: I think that's fine. I think that's great, because yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not You're not going to know positive or negative
Speaker 1: unless you do it, you know. And we've been looking
Speaker 1: and doing stuff for fifty sixty years now and haven't
Speaker 1: gotten really far. So I think that you have to
Speaker 1: try some of these random things that make sense, that
Speaker 1: has a nice logical foundation, and see what comes of it.
Speaker 1: Because we're missing something. We're missing something, we're missing a
Speaker 1: big chunk of their behavior that would make it a
Speaker 1: lot easier to get some photographs of them or further
Speaker 1: expand the cast inventory or whatever. We're missing something, so
Speaker 1: we got to try these things. Stay tuned for more
Speaker 1: Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right
Speaker 1: back after these messages.
Speaker 3: You're a professional photographer, Rick with like, do you carry
Speaker 3: a film camera or it's always digital? Do you for
Speaker 3: the clear shot? You can, you know, do a lot
Speaker 3: more with the film. Do you ever use those or
Speaker 3: there's just too inefficient.
Speaker 4: I have a film and digital and video, so I
Speaker 4: have a lot of different cameras. I got like thirty
Speaker 4: different cameras. It just depends. I carry probably five or
Speaker 4: six cameras when I go, And depending on what I
Speaker 4: want to do or what I'm thinking of, or the
Speaker 4: light or the conditions, is the camera and that I
Speaker 4: take out? Now that will also dictate what kind of
Speaker 4: lens I'm going to have, so you know, like I
Speaker 4: sometimes I have a six hundred millimeters lens with me.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I'll have a wide angle. It just depends. Most
Speaker 4: of the time it's not a zoom, it's fixed or
Speaker 4: prime lens. So yeah, I one thing that Renee into me,
Speaker 4: he's always have a camera. That guy, he had a
Speaker 4: camera where he went. That's why I never trust him.
Speaker 4: He had a camera everywhere. You went, so you name it.
Speaker 4: You had a camera.
Speaker 3: I always thought you'd be the best guy researcher because you
Speaker 3: are a professional photographer. And I thought, and you're in
Speaker 3: a great spot and you go to the same spot
Speaker 3: so over and over, and I thought, if anyone's going
Speaker 3: to get a good picture, it's not blurry, and you know, indistinct,
Speaker 3: it would be you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've gotten only a couple of blurry And that
Speaker 4: was I said. Some camera traps out and something knocked
Speaker 4: the trees down that the cameras were on, and I
Speaker 4: got a picture of something black moving but it wasn't
Speaker 4: very good. I couldn't tell what it was. But most
Speaker 4: of my pictures of other animals come out, you know,
Speaker 4: real clean, sharp and everything. So it must have been
Speaker 4: just a shadow. Because if it can stop a deer
Speaker 4: from moving, or an elk, or stop a bear from moving,
Speaker 4: it's going to stop a bigfoot. Unless see these things,
Speaker 4: they don't have tools. We're not finding, they're not using fire,
Speaker 4: they're not processing their foods. You know. Every once in
Speaker 4: a while we hear people saying that they hear them
Speaker 4: chattering like they're talking, or that they are throwing things
Speaker 4: rocks and sticks and stuff like that, or some of
Speaker 4: these tp like structures that there's stick formations they're saying
Speaker 4: that maybe are attributed to Bigfoot. But to me, I
Speaker 4: think they're just another animal, and I think that they're
Speaker 4: just so rare that it's hard to find them. They're big,
Speaker 4: and people are forgetting that when they go out and research.
Speaker 4: I mean, I went with a couple and they're well
Speaker 4: known researchers and they're on their hands or knees going
Speaker 4: underneath BlackBerry bushes looking for evidence of Bigfoot stepping there.
Speaker 4: There's no way you'd see the evidence before you even
Speaker 4: got down to the ground. It's like logic left their brain.
Speaker 4: If something that big was going through, like an elephant,
Speaker 4: all the vegetation would would indicate that something big went
Speaker 4: through there. So I don't know. I know that rivers
Speaker 4: like Washington has thirty five thousand rivers and streams and
Speaker 4: creeks all together, and there's a lot of fish there.
Speaker 4: I know about all the animals that are there. I mean,
Speaker 4: there's not many cougars. There's only fifteen hundred, and it's
Speaker 4: only like less than a less than twenty per thousand
Speaker 4: square miles of territory that that's the home range for cougars,
Speaker 4: and there's a hell of a lot of deer. They're
Speaker 4: starting a population of grizzly now in there. I think
Speaker 4: that Washington, right next to BC has more sightings and
Speaker 4: stuff because BC has grizzlies and if anything that would
Speaker 4: be a danger to a bigfoot, a grizzly, I think
Speaker 4: so if there's grizzly there, I think there's less sightings.
Speaker 4: And I also, you know, strongly believe that an animal
Speaker 4: like a bigfoot would avoid any type of confrontation where
Speaker 4: it could get injured the less. I think it's a
Speaker 4: It might be a natural law that the population of
Speaker 4: a species, if it's a low population number, that the
Speaker 4: individual is more cautious in its life, not consciously saying
Speaker 4: I'm not going to take the chance of being skewered
Speaker 4: by an elk's antlers, but they look for the easy way.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go after the young that was just born.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that makes sense. That's why they raid trash cans,
Speaker 1: that's why they're eating roadkill. That they're always going after
Speaker 1: the easy stuff because because they are smart. That's what
Speaker 1: I would do, and I'm smarter than the average bear.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think and I would be doing I
Speaker 1: would be doing the same thing. The average bear might disagree,
Speaker 1: but that's my opinion.
Speaker 4: What's weird is, you know, John green goes the only
Speaker 4: thing I found similar in my database. He gave me
Speaker 4: the database and I entered in a lot of it
Speaker 4: in the BFO. That's why the Washington sightings are so high.
Speaker 4: But the database in there. He said that, you know,
Speaker 4: the only thing I could find was that when it
Speaker 4: rains or when there's a certain amount of water, is
Speaker 4: when there is sightings that happen. So there's two things
Speaker 4: that I thought, Well, the fish like it when it rains,
Speaker 4: and when the rivers have a seven foot per second flow,
Speaker 4: that's when the salmons start going up, and so that's
Speaker 4: a source of food. And the other is is if
Speaker 4: you look at the states that have these large populations,
Speaker 4: for the most part, there is a few that have
Speaker 4: large populations and this doesn't work out. But if you
Speaker 4: look at there's like thirty one states that have elk
Speaker 4: breeding and the rest of them don't that elk breeding
Speaker 4: gives a pretty good meal at certain times of the year,
Speaker 4: and those areas where the breeding and the calving occur
Speaker 4: have been in areas where it seems that bigfoot sightings
Speaker 4: and reports and information coming out of those areas are
Speaker 4: more aggressive for some reason. And so like, the elk
Speaker 4: population for Utah is pretty huge, and Oregon is really huge.
Speaker 4: Washington it's fairly huge. We're talking sixty to one hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand elk. I'm surprised that Oregon has as
Speaker 4: many as it does, one hundred and fifty hundred and
Speaker 4: forty one hundred and thirty something like that.
Speaker 1: Oregon has the third highest number of forested acres of
Speaker 1: all fifty states after Alaska, and crazy enough, but Georgia
Speaker 1: has more forested acres than Oregon does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a that's a makeup they're making up for
Speaker 4: when they cut all the trees down, so all the
Speaker 4: trees that they ever knew.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were number two, and we being Oregon, we
Speaker 1: were number two until it's a few years ago. I
Speaker 1: get so, I guess our logging caught up to us
Speaker 1: and maybe perhaps George's reforestation.
Speaker 3: So, hey, Rick, I was going to ask you, how
Speaker 3: often do you find scat and do you find it
Speaker 3: in association with trackways? And if so, is do you
Speaker 3: notice that dietary changes during the year. And do they
Speaker 3: hide the scat that you've found.
Speaker 4: No, I don't find that much scap. And the scat
Speaker 4: that I do find from other animals, the majority of
Speaker 4: the time, I find it in the middle of a
Speaker 4: road like they're scared and they just defecate right there. Now,
Speaker 4: I have seen a lot of bear right near a
Speaker 4: place where they are eating a lot of berries. I
Speaker 4: guess it looses up their bowels or something. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: I've seen where you know fish. I mean I didn't
Speaker 4: believe that. You know, maybe a bigfoot could catch a
Speaker 4: fish they don't have like a bear does. But I
Speaker 4: pulled fish right out of the river. I pull pulled
Speaker 4: steel head and stuff like that. And I found some
Speaker 4: weird stuff right next to where those I did that.
Speaker 4: You know, it looks like someone peeled a fish and
Speaker 4: the head was gone, the tail was there, and the
Speaker 4: skin was pulled back. Now, I don't think a bear
Speaker 4: does that, and I know an eagle wouldn't do that.
Speaker 4: So what did it?
Speaker 3: Well, I got them catching fish. I got a pretty
Speaker 3: interesting story. I was up talking to people in tweets
Speaker 3: up there, you know, in quinn Out Reservation, and they
Speaker 3: were telling me because they had a group of teenagers,
Speaker 3: like a mob of like anywhere from eleven to fourteen
Speaker 3: juvenile bigfoots would pack up around their village and they'd
Speaker 3: see them all the time for years. It quit probably
Speaker 3: it really slowed down about fifteen years ago. But they
Speaker 3: had a story about watching in daylight during a salmon
Speaker 3: run the group of young bigfoot's, about ten or eleven
Speaker 3: of them in the river and the Quets River right
Speaker 3: where it does the big horseshoe bends around of the village,
Speaker 3: and they watched them jumping in and they would herd
Speaker 3: the salmon into the shallow areas and like, and they'd
Speaker 3: grab them and then they'd run off and they'd hold
Speaker 3: it like a football and run away like not to
Speaker 3: share it. And they'd run up somewhere on the embankment
Speaker 3: and needed it alone and wouldn't share. And then when
Speaker 3: it got down to like three or four bigfoots left,
Speaker 3: they just gave up because there wasn't enough of them
Speaker 3: to corral the salmon anymore.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who knows, Man, that seems like an awful lot
Speaker 1: of bigfoots to be seen at once.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've heard that. I think I heard Chris talk
Speaker 4: about something like that up in Canada.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Ice have some more data points supporting
Speaker 1: something like that. But there are a couple a couple
Speaker 1: of reports of them peeling back the skin of other animals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's one I know where he's sasquatch was holding a
Speaker 1: fawn like a baby deer and peeling the skin off it.
Speaker 1: And there's another one I think with a dog. That
Speaker 1: might be a few more in my records. I some
Speaker 1: of the memory to recall them.
Speaker 3: Well, in Louisiana, the DuPonts, the cattle dog went out
Speaker 3: and when the squatch was around, it pulled the hide off,
Speaker 3: and the dog came running back with no hide left,
Speaker 3: and it just ran back screaming and then died like
Speaker 3: twenty minutes later.
Speaker 1: Wow, bummer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had, I've had I've seen stuff like that,
Speaker 4: but it was another dog that ripped off the skin.
Speaker 4: They can do that.
Speaker 1: So nowadays, you've basically escaped the spotlight, which is I
Speaker 1: congratulate you on that. By the way, you've escaped the
Speaker 1: spotlight in Bigfoot, which is kind of nice. And you
Speaker 1: can do things quietly at your own pace and without
Speaker 1: anybody else criticizing or yelling or screaming or whatever they
Speaker 1: like to do, because bigfooting hasn't really changed, you know,
Speaker 1: since the nineteen seventies or before. What do you do, like,
Speaker 1: like how often, like say during the good months where
Speaker 1: it's more the woods are more accessible in the mountains
Speaker 1: and whatever, how often do you get out and what
Speaker 1: does an expedition look like for you nowadays?
Speaker 4: Well, I like to look for tracks because that's the
Speaker 4: immediate concern. So I wait until it rains, and then
Speaker 4: when it rains, that's when.
Speaker 1: I go out in the rain or after it can be.
Speaker 4: In when it's when it's in there because when it
Speaker 4: starts to rain, because it'll wash a lot of my
Speaker 4: sand away.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bobo will be right back after these messages. Are you
Speaker 1: finding tracks in the same general area that you found
Speaker 1: them before?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's some specifics to where the tracks are. First,
Speaker 4: you know, you look at you only look in areas
Speaker 4: where tracks are are going to be seen or where
Speaker 4: they're going to be made along a river. If if
Speaker 4: the river is like loose gravel, I mean you're not
Speaker 4: gonna you know, go there. If I spots on rivers,
Speaker 4: where it's good conditions for it. Then sometimes on the
Speaker 4: side of the roads depends. If the vegetation is growing
Speaker 4: up to the edge of the road, that's no good.
Speaker 4: So I wait until either that is all washed away
Speaker 4: or it's just muddy. And you look for prints along there.
Speaker 4: When I'm walking down a dirt road or something, I
Speaker 4: walk on one side going up and on the other
Speaker 4: side coming down. I don't walk in the middle of
Speaker 4: the road, and I find a lot of tracks along there.
Speaker 4: They come and they stand by the side, you know things,
Speaker 4: stand by the side of the road, check it out,
Speaker 4: and then cross it and call the other side. So
Speaker 4: it's just common sense. A lot of times. It's almost
Speaker 4: like if you know, you're like you're playing a game
Speaker 4: and you don't want to be seen, and so you
Speaker 4: might go out in the open. As soon as something happens,
Speaker 4: you hear some or you see something in the distance,
Speaker 4: you think that they could see you. You change your
Speaker 4: body shape, you squat down, or you jump, or you
Speaker 4: fall down, or you get out of that line of sight.
Speaker 4: You try and avoid. It's almost like an evasion kind
Speaker 4: of technique. And deer do it too, but they do
Speaker 4: it a different way. They can hop and then drop
Speaker 4: their tail and they turn their butt towards you, and
Speaker 4: then they turn around look at you with their butt
Speaker 4: towards you, and it breaks up their look. That's if
Speaker 4: they think you are a threat. I don't think elk
Speaker 4: do that, but a lot of times elk will lower
Speaker 4: their antlers and it's almost like they're behind a tree
Speaker 4: with limbs and a bear I think. I don't think
Speaker 4: bears of that bright and they just they waddle along.
Speaker 4: They don't care their eyesight is poor. There's a sense
Speaker 4: of smell is good. I have a blind cat and
Speaker 4: it acts like a bear at home, and it just
Speaker 4: waddles around, whereas I got another cat and it zings around.
Speaker 4: It's like super hyper sensitive to airy stimuli. But that
Speaker 4: blank cat is is really lethargic, and so I think
Speaker 4: the eyesight is really, you know, one of those kinds
Speaker 4: of things. And Bigfoot has got eyes like us, meaning
Speaker 4: that they're both forward facing. They're not on the side
Speaker 4: of the head like a deer or even I think
Speaker 4: a bears pretty much on the side of the head too.
Speaker 4: They have to turn their head a little bit to
Speaker 4: see what's right in front of them. They're kind of
Speaker 4: the same cat sizes are they look straight at you,
Speaker 4: They're not on the side of the head. They're a predator.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if you know I've heard where
Speaker 4: you know, the eyes facing straight ahead as a predator.
Speaker 4: But anyway, I go to places where it's noisy and wet,
Speaker 4: and that's waterfalls because I make a lot of noise
Speaker 4: if I'm walking around trying to get up and down
Speaker 4: into into some deep canyons, and with a waterfall there
Speaker 4: nothing really hears you.
Speaker 1: And as that panned out, if you if you've had
Speaker 1: some positive results by frequenting these waterfalls.
Speaker 4: I found a few interesting things that look like tracks.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't nothing i'd cast or take a picture of,
Speaker 4: but they look like something had gone through that area
Speaker 4: with a soft foot. Didn't look like it was a boot,
Speaker 4: didn't look like it was a small foot. Knocks off
Speaker 4: some you know moss on a rock that is a
Speaker 4: large moss section of it on a rock, and then
Speaker 4: further down there's another rock and it's within the bigfoots
Speaker 4: reported you know, step it could it could reach one
Speaker 4: to the other with one foot a human would be
Speaker 4: able to. So that it's interesting. And sometimes I see
Speaker 4: where rocks are picked up and disturbed and they're turned over,
Speaker 4: and you would think that maybe it was, you know,
Speaker 4: like a hoofed foot that kicked it, but it isn't.
Speaker 4: It's like only you know, two or three inches away,
Speaker 4: but it's turned completely over and it's the same distance
Speaker 4: like a bigfoot would biped would that's the size of
Speaker 4: a bigfoot. So I've seen stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Have you seen a bigfoot yet, Rick, No, I haven't.
Speaker 4: I've seen some strange things out of the corner of
Speaker 4: my eyes, could be in a bird or something like
Speaker 4: that moving flying by and just caught your attention and
Speaker 4: then it drifts into a shadow. But I've also read
Speaker 4: where apparently we tell stories in our heads of what
Speaker 4: we're seeing. It goes directly to the front of our
Speaker 4: brain and tells us a story I see is completely
Speaker 4: different than what anybody else sees because it's all interpreted
Speaker 4: by my brain's storytelling ability. I see something and it's
Speaker 4: telling me the story of what I'm seeing. What you
Speaker 4: see is telling you the story of what you see.
Speaker 4: And I really recommend everybody reading a book called The
Speaker 4: Science of Storytelling, and it goes into a lot of
Speaker 4: really interesting stuff. It's more than just being fooled by
Speaker 4: your eyes. It's your brain that is interpreting what your
Speaker 4: eyes see. Your eyes don't have a memory. Your eyes
Speaker 4: are just interpreting signals. Your brain is what has the
Speaker 4: memory and what's doing stuff with what your eyes are seeing. So, no,
Speaker 4: I haven't I don't claim to see a bigfoot. I
Speaker 4: haven't seen a bigfoot. It's not like I'm hiding that
Speaker 4: I've seen a bigfoot. And if I ever saw a bigfoot,
Speaker 4: i'd probably tell people, yeah I think I seen one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for more paranoid listeners, he's not hiding anything from you.
Speaker 3: What's the most compelling audio, Like, have you had like
Speaker 3: a class being counterlike that was intense, or you like,
Speaker 3: you know, you got your hair up like anything like that.
Speaker 4: Well, on the Schook of Expedition, I got my hair up.
Speaker 4: That was there was some some really strange stuff there.
Speaker 4: And I know Matt claims that some of it was
Speaker 4: just doctor bam bam uh talking in his sleep, but
Speaker 4: it wasn't. It was not him talking in a sleep.
Speaker 4: It was bizarre and and it was it was spooky.
Speaker 4: Other sounds that I've heard the most compelling sounds that
Speaker 4: I've heard have been at Bumping Lake. My parents called me.
Speaker 4: They were hunting over there, and this is over on
Speaker 4: the cascades, going over to that cheese and it's a
Speaker 4: it's a cabin area, and they were hunting and there
Speaker 4: were some tracks found and I got the pictures from
Speaker 4: the people that took the pictures sent them to me.
Speaker 4: They were slides, and I sent them down to Peter
Speaker 4: and he never returned them, so I was sad. I
Speaker 4: took some made some prints room, so I have that.
Speaker 4: But anyway, there are really some good prints in snow.
Speaker 4: And the sounds that they were hearing there were like warning,
Speaker 4: you know, for humans to get out of there. They
Speaker 4: heard these rifle shots and it was almost like, you know,
Speaker 4: there's another tribe of people that were saying, you know,
Speaker 4: get out of our area. This is our hunting ground.
Speaker 4: And and so it was kind of eerie listening to
Speaker 4: these these screens over there. And I tried to recreate
Speaker 4: the screens my parents had recorded on a little eight track,
Speaker 4: not a track, but a little a cassette recorder, and
Speaker 4: I transferred to a bigger recorder and then it went
Speaker 4: to the University of Washington had them. It was the
Speaker 4: first time I ever heard of the audio department there
Speaker 4: and had them tried to recreate it so that they
Speaker 4: could get it cleaned up and like they make the sound.
Speaker 4: So they did that with a synthesizer and put it
Speaker 4: on there, and I tried to use that for call blasting.
Speaker 4: That was way back, that was late seventies. Then I
Speaker 4: took it to the University of Washington, so that was
Speaker 4: before call blasting. I wouldn't call it call blasting, and
Speaker 4: I tried it a couple of times, and I didn't
Speaker 4: have the power behind there for portable stereo. You just
Speaker 4: played it in your car and the finished product I
Speaker 4: had to record it after playing on a reel, to
Speaker 4: reel on speakers and then record it onto a tape machine,
Speaker 4: then take that tape and stick it in. I had
Speaker 4: an eight tap eight track tape deck and an eight
Speaker 4: track tape recorder, and I transferred over to the eight
Speaker 4: track and put that into the eight track player because
Speaker 4: because that's weren't there at that time.
Speaker 3: Were you ever stoked like you thought it was a
Speaker 3: big foot, like you know, hearing like the crunch and
Speaker 3: falling you out or anything like that or bluff charge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been stocked, but it was a bear, and
Speaker 4: I stalked. Another time it was a cougar, but not
Speaker 4: a big foot. They showed themselves the bear. I thought
Speaker 4: bears were stupid. I still do. But we were falling.
Speaker 4: I was falling a bear, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: I see my footprints and the bear was on top
Speaker 4: of them. Go wait a minute. I traveled around in
Speaker 4: a circle and the bear is chasing me.
Speaker 1: They're smart dogs, you know, basically is what they are.
Speaker 4: You know now the cougars, they're different. They're scary. I'll
Speaker 4: tell you. When I was on that horse and we
Speaker 4: got off the horses, we were crossing the river. The
Speaker 4: river had been washed The bridge there was washed out,
Speaker 4: so there has been like five years that it's been
Speaker 4: washed down. So that side of the river was all
Speaker 4: overgrown on the end, and there was a lot of
Speaker 4: logs down on the road stuff. So we were we
Speaker 4: crossed the river on the horses. The horses got all
Speaker 4: beat up a crossing that river. They were bloody on
Speaker 4: the other side. I felt sad for them. And we
Speaker 4: got to the point where my boots were in the water.
Speaker 4: It was deeper than I thought, and I was surprised
Speaker 4: that the horses didn't lose their footing and started swimming,
Speaker 4: and then I went to ruined my ten thousand dollars
Speaker 4: video camera. It was it was scary, but when we
Speaker 4: finally got over there, we dried off a little bit.
Speaker 4: And then we're walking, or the horses were walking. We're
Speaker 4: on their back, and we come up to a log.
Speaker 4: We have to get off, and then we get them
Speaker 4: to come over the log, and then we get back
Speaker 4: on and we have to get the camera ready and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, and I have a pistol on and
Speaker 4: we keep on going. So after about the fifth log
Speaker 4: across the road, there was a big one and I
Speaker 4: had to go under the log instead of over it,
Speaker 4: and the horse had to be led over it on
Speaker 4: the side of the road and threw a bunch of
Speaker 4: mud to get across. And then we got back on
Speaker 4: and I'm going, this is getting old. I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, when are we going to turn around? This
Speaker 4: is this is getting ridiculous. And we'd only traveled, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe four miles on the horses with all these down trees,
Speaker 4: and I get back up on the horse and we
Speaker 4: went I don't know, I had the video camera in
Speaker 4: my arm, and it was the camera lens was pointed
Speaker 4: towards the guy that owns the horses to my left,
Speaker 4: and we're walking on the horses just I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe ten feet and the side of the of the
Speaker 4: road on my side had a lot of forest up there,
Speaker 4: and it was a steep hill, and then there was
Speaker 4: this big rock. I didn't see anything. And then I
Speaker 4: get past the rock, just like I don't know, not
Speaker 4: very far, maybe a foot to two foot past this big rock.
Speaker 4: It's like above my head, about at least say eight
Speaker 4: feet above my head. I'm about five feet away from
Speaker 4: the side of the road, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: this thing lands right from the horse. It's got a
Speaker 4: tail sticking up and it's brown and it's wagon and
Speaker 4: it leaps off the center of the road and over
Speaker 4: to the side, and then you see it moving through
Speaker 4: the forest and it was a cougar almost. I could
Speaker 4: feel the air going past my.
Speaker 1: Heads straight out of that Sasquatch movie from the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: you know that one. Ron Olson kind.
Speaker 4: Of really I didn't know that, but.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they're like they're their caravan of horses, you know,
Speaker 1: got attacked by a cougar or whatever.
Speaker 4: So I couldn't believe that. And then I found out
Speaker 4: that that's where the Game Department releases their cougars that
Speaker 4: they catch that are too close to populations. They come out,
Speaker 4: they catch them after people see them, and then they
Speaker 4: release them out there. No wonder, there's cougar's there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you think.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I wanted to ask you what's your thought on
Speaker 3: tree breaks, glyphs and cheaping structures.
Speaker 4: You know, I've never seen a TP being made, so
Speaker 4: I don't have an explanation for it. The twists, this
Speaker 4: is what I would say. If there's a twist in
Speaker 4: a limb or something like that and it goes to
Speaker 4: the right, there's a good chance that's just natural. Somehow
Speaker 4: it happens, especially with lightning strikes. It affects some sort
Speaker 4: of structure inside the tree and they start acting weird
Speaker 4: and everything. This is a right hand universe and things
Speaker 4: travel in that direction to the right. Everything twists to
Speaker 4: the right for some reason. That's how the electrons go
Speaker 4: around the atoms and how It's just how things work
Speaker 4: in a toilet bowl. Yeah, if if it goes around
Speaker 4: the opposite way to the left, then I start wondering
Speaker 4: what could have done that? And I don't know what,
Speaker 4: but I never I've seen the you know, the the
Speaker 4: teepee like structures out in the woods. I don't know
Speaker 4: what causes them. It doesn't make sense when I look
Speaker 4: up and see where these things are coming from, that
Speaker 4: they could have been blown over there and land that
Speaker 4: way doesn't make sense. It's almost like, is someone someone
Speaker 4: climbing up these trees, breaking them off and throwing them
Speaker 4: down like spears?
Speaker 3: How about sasquatches in trees? I know you're like, you know,
Speaker 3: you're you got all evergreens around you for the big
Speaker 3: part of where you're at a lot of evergreens, and
Speaker 3: we hear either more in deciduous trees than they climbing
Speaker 3: the trees. But what's your take on that? Do you
Speaker 3: have any experience with that or ideas.
Speaker 4: I've seen a couple of black things up in trees
Speaker 4: and I took in some pictures, but I couldn't tell
Speaker 4: what it was and it wouldn't move, And I've walked
Speaker 4: up to the tree, I can't get up there, and
Speaker 4: so I just thought better of it, thinking that it
Speaker 4: must have been you know, a cub or a bear,
Speaker 4: up there, what kind of it was at least one
Speaker 4: hundred feet up in the air, and they were fir
Speaker 4: and pine. They were pretty far up there, and where
Speaker 4: they were was close to the trunk, not out on
Speaker 4: a limb, but close to the trunk. And the limbs
Speaker 4: were so thick that parts of it were broken up,
Speaker 4: so it didn't look like it was one big black thing,
Speaker 4: but you knew it was.
Speaker 3: Did you see claw marks on the near of the base.
Speaker 4: No, I didn't, so I don't know what it was.
Speaker 4: That's telling Yeah, yeah, that was That was that Rattlesnak Reservoir,
Speaker 4: which is close to the talt Indian are not tilt. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a tolt, but it's not the Indian reservation. It's
Speaker 4: the watershed for Seattle, so it's out by Izakuah.
Speaker 1: Is that watershed off limits?
Speaker 4: Yes, so you can walk in. If they catch you,
Speaker 4: you get in.
Speaker 3: Trouble, gotcha.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. We have the bull run over here
Speaker 1: that you're not even allowed to walk in there. But
Speaker 1: on the other side of the hill there's the Dallas
Speaker 1: Watershed and that's where Peter Burn suggested I go big footing.
Speaker 1: We I already knew about it by that time, I
Speaker 1: already found a spot over there, and you're allowed to
Speaker 1: drive through it. You just can't stop and get out.
Speaker 4: Supposedly, when I was doing cedar salvage, I worked in
Speaker 4: that area, and it's really rugged. In the water down
Speaker 4: there in that reservoir is just crystal clear. Oh man,
Speaker 4: looks so beautiful, and it's really dangerous because the way
Speaker 4: it's so steep walking on those hillsides. They hire people
Speaker 4: to come in and do cedar salvage and also to
Speaker 4: do pre commercial thinning. They call it that. It's not
Speaker 4: really pre commercial because they don't allow commercial thinning out there,
Speaker 4: and the RESI in the watershed. But the way you
Speaker 4: use a bow bar, it's hollow on a chainsaw and
Speaker 4: you cut it and then these trees that are about
Speaker 4: to well to maybe the most is two and a
Speaker 4: half inches in with at the base, and you cut
Speaker 4: up and it falls into the middle of their boat bar,
Speaker 4: and then you flip the saw and the tree goes
Speaker 4: flying and it leaves that stump there. And it's a
Speaker 4: small stump, but it keeps the ground from washing away,
Speaker 4: and it allows certain species or certain trees to grow
Speaker 4: and other ones to not crowd them. So you just
Speaker 4: thin the trees there and you get tired, and you're
Speaker 4: at an angle, a real sharp angle on those hills,
Speaker 4: and when you're cutting them, you end up cutting them
Speaker 4: like spikes. So if you fall, you're going to be skewered.
Speaker 1: Maybe impaled by your own work. Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So you know, there's a lot of dangerous stuff
Speaker 4: out there, and for big One to be out some
Speaker 4: of that area, it's just amazing that we don't find one,
Speaker 4: you know, debt from something that humans have done.
Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, there's so few of them, and
Speaker 1: where they like to hang out aren't exactly places people
Speaker 1: love to go.
Speaker 4: Right. This is an animal that is very in tune
Speaker 4: with with this, with the ecology. It has a very
Speaker 4: specific niche and it's a it's adaptive and so uh
Speaker 4: that's how if it is, if there is such a
Speaker 4: thing as a big Way, it's got to be so
Speaker 4: adaptive that it can survive in low numbers and it
Speaker 4: is commanding of its environment. It knows it has very
Speaker 4: good mental models of when when uh, vegetation changes and
Speaker 4: when this that if humans are interfering in acting with
Speaker 4: the environment around them, what dangers those are When the
Speaker 4: food comes up in this area, when the food comes
Speaker 4: up in that area, all sorts of things like that,
Speaker 4: Like you know, they can tell when the weather is
Speaker 4: going to change. I don't know, it's just it's got
Speaker 4: to be so in tune.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's phenomenal, phenomenal animals all around, and the lack
Speaker 1: of proof is testament to that, I think in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. Well, you know, Rick, we're drawn to
Speaker 1: the end of our regular episode here, but we have
Speaker 1: a member section if you can stick around for a
Speaker 1: few minutes, because we haven't even touched on the Scuokum stuff,
Speaker 1: the Skukum casts and I have a ton of questions
Speaker 1: about that, So why don't we end the regular recording
Speaker 1: for this week and we'll talk about the Skukum expedition
Speaker 1: in the member section. Okay, thank you very much, Rick,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on, Bobo.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like getting Elvis in the middle to
Speaker 3: get you on here. We've been trying for a while.
Speaker 3: So thanks a lot for coming on.
Speaker 4: I don't call it that thanks.
Speaker 3: Okay, folks, we're going to take it to the member
Speaker 3: section now, the Patreon folks, and so thanks for listening,
Speaker 3: and thanks to Rick Mill for joining us, so until
Speaker 3: next week, you all keep it squatchy.
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