WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.599 On a quiet Idaho night in May of two thousand 2 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:13.679 and five, an innocent family was attacked and slaughtered inside 3 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.399 their own home. Then their two youngest children were taken 4 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:21.600 and vanished without a trace. What began as a routine 5 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:25.120 welfare check would unravel into one of the most disturbing 6 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:30.000 child abduction cases in modern American history, a hunt that 7 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:34.359 crossed state lines, exposed years of hidden crimes, and also 8 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:38.200 shocked even seasoned FBI agents. And at the center of 9 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.119 it all was an eight year old girl forced to 10 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:46.600 survive the unthinkable. This is the survival story of Shasta Grony. 11 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:51.719 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked 12 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:52.479 and Grim. 13 00:00:52.280 --> 00:01:00.159 A true crime podcasting. The following podcast content. I have 14 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.519 material intended audience listener. 15 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:24.959 That felt kind of lonely. 16 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.480 Our intro it felt lonely. 17 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:29.920 Without Jacko getting used to that. 18 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.359 I see what you're saying. Halloween weeks over and done 19 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.439 with and onto a new season, specifically Mariah Carey season. 20 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:43.319 Oh gosh, tell me I'm wrong, I think. Well I'm 21 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:44.200 not quite there yet. 22 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.000 Well I'm not either, but the memes and stuff were 23 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.400 certainly there, and the stores you go to, Oh, man 24 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:52.359 man full swing Christmas. 25 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.040 We took our Halloween decorations down. I guess I should 26 00:01:56.040 --> 00:02:00.000 have been the grallowing decorations down, but I'm not ready 27 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.120 to put Christmas up yet. No, it would be a 28 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.640 little while. I think it's nice when I don't know, 29 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:06.799 when you have the house, it just looks so empty 30 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.759 and clean, almost after you on decrave right, holiday, less. 31 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:13.199 Clutter, it's more organized. It's a breath of fresh air. 32 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.080 Getting that space again. 33 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:18.439 Yeah, so I'm going to enjoy that for a little bit, 34 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:19.319 I think and. 35 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:24.280 Totally understand that. So we have a whack ton of 36 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.479 people to thank over on Patreon. We didn't think during 37 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.000 Halloween week. We were a little bit preoccupied with everything 38 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.439 going on. So it's back into the regular scheduled things 39 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:36.360 today and this is going to be I think officially 40 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:39.599 our longest list of patrons ever. 41 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:43.599 Yeah. Well, I mean, gosh, yeah, we get quite a 42 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:45.680 few people sign up, but I didn't realize it was 43 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.319 that many in that week. So that's fricking awesome. 44 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.360 It is, so bear with me. I'm going to go 45 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:53.439 through a long list of some amazing people, and I'm 46 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:55.319 going to do my best on all of your names. 47 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.560 So shout out to Tracy Ferguson, Kim Rosencranz, Cat Cox, 48 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:08.680 Jamie mcgar, Melissa M. Marshmallow, Stephanie Lynz seventy nine, Crystal Centrin, 49 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:15.360 Ca Von, Sherry Harmison, Dimitri Miltrin, Jamie Hill, Deborah rob 50 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:23.960 Cindy Brunson, Laurie Diltz, Lyssa Sirah Vultanan, Sarah Hill, Melissa Bowling, Medley, 51 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:31.479 Natasha Hankem, Kathy, Emily Hendrix, Stephanie Schneider, Kelly Powers, Dave Langford, 52 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:38.439 Pam Armstrong, Brianna aupencru Elizabeth hann Becks, Whittacombe, and Autumn Banks. 53 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.879 Thank you so much, you amazing, amazing people. 54 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.439 Dan Dang, that's a good list of humans right there. 55 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.000 It is a good list of humans, and they got 56 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.680 some pretty cool stuff going through October. Though we've been 57 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:50.800 silent the last couple days recouping from everything. 58 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.159 Wow. I mean, there's a lot for people to catch 59 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.400 up onto, so I think that's understandable. 60 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:57.520 That's definitely true. But we got some cool stuff lined 61 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.919 up both in the podcast here and over on Patreon, 62 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.439 So be sure to stay tuned into the podcast and 63 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.520 check out Patreon if you're interested. Yeah, but I think 64 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.639 we should mosey on over to our case for the day. 65 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:16.079 What do you think, back to normal schedule and scheduled programming. 66 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.519 Normally scheduled programming. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, for sure, 67 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.199 let's do it. So this is a survival story, and 68 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.360 I thought it'd be good to come back into everything 69 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:26.480 with a survival story. 70 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:27.560 That's a good idea. 71 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:32.000 But it comes with a warning. This does discuss the 72 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.600 abuse and sexual abuse of children. Oh gosh, So I 73 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:40.279 keep details very limited in that aspect. Okay, okay, you 74 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:43.800 ready for this? Yep? Now. Before the world knew her name, 75 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.160 before the headlines and Amber alerts, before the word survivor 76 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:49.920 was ever even attached to an eight year old girl, 77 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:52.720 Shasta Gronie was just a kid growing up in a 78 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:56.000 small house tucked into the trees along Wolf Lodge Bay 79 00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:00.120 Road in northern Idaho. Her mother, Brenda Groenei, was forty. 80 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.319 She was a barefoot in the summer natural living, make 81 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.199 anything work kind of mom, always planting her feet in 82 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:08.759 the dirt like she needed the earth to really steady 83 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.240 and ground her. It was said she could take a 84 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:14.279 rundown house, a thrift store couch, and a handful of 85 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:19.000 wildflowers and somehow make it feel warm and inviting, like 86 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.199 a home, like someplace to live. 87 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:23.920 I love that. I want to be like that when 88 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:24.480 I grow up. 89 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.240 That's something to strive for. Honestly, Yeah, she was part hippie, 90 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.399 part force of nature, and she didn't fuss over appearances. 91 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:36.000 She made things work. Her fiance, Mark Kenzie, wasn't loud 92 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.319 or dramatic. He was a kind of man who fixed 93 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.319 what he broke, helped who needed helping, and kept the 94 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.920 house running with quiet reliability. He loved her kids like 95 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:48.560 they were his own, and they trusted him the way 96 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:52.240 children do when a man has proven himself to be safe. 97 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:56.319 Three of Brenda's five children still lived at home, thirteen 98 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.560 year old Slade the oldest, who was already doing yardwork 99 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.759 for neighbors and teasing his siblings in the way that 100 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.639 only big brothers really can. Then there was nine year 101 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.879 old Dylan, who was gentle, sensitive and openly attached to 102 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:11.000 his mom, a kid who cried, easily, hugged off, and 103 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.399 defended his little sister when she needed him. And then 104 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.240 there was Shasta, the youngest, eight years old and small 105 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:21.360 for her age, but already sharper and stronger than anyone 106 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.000 really realized. Their two oldest brothers had already moved out, 107 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.519 so the house most days was just the five of them. 108 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.480 There were school, movies, chores, and of course the kids 109 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.360 playing outside barefoot like their mother often did, and nobody 110 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.480 thought twice about it. They lived near the woods, surrounded 111 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:40.160 by tall pines, and the kind of trust in the 112 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.839 surroundings that comes from believing danger is something that happened 113 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.800 somewhere else. The back door to their home, in fact, 114 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.240 stayed unlocked, so that the dogs could go in and 115 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.439 out at night freely. It was the kind of household 116 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.680 you don't really worry about danger with, because danger, as 117 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.759 I mentioned, was far away, not here, happened to other 118 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.959 people somewhere else, on another street and another neighborhood and 119 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:06.519 another home. Except little did they know danger was actually here, 120 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:10.480 and it was already here. One afternoon, Brenda looked out 121 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:13.399 the window and she froze in place. There was a 122 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.480 man on the hill behind the house. He wasn't walking 123 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.240 or exploring, but he was watching. She pointed him out 124 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.680 to Mark, who ran inside to grab binoculars, but by 125 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.399 the time he got back, the man was gone, swallowed 126 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.279 by trees and who knows where. They tried to laugh 127 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.879 it off. Maybe it was a hunter passing through, or 128 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:34.759 a hiker who had wandered a little bit too far 129 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.639 off the trail. Maybe she'd even imagined it. Who knows. 130 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:41.120 Maybe it was just nothing. But it wasn't nothing. The 131 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.000 man on the hill was someone by the name of 132 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:48.639 Joseph Edward Duncan, a convicted child predator out on bail. 133 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:52.879 He was driving a stolen jeep with fake license plates 134 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.519 and wearing night vision goggles and already studying their family 135 00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:58.240 like a hunter stalking his prey. 136 00:07:58.600 --> 00:07:59.759 Oh man, I hate this. 137 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:03.079 He watched them play in the yard, he learned where 138 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.240 each child slept, and he returned night after night, staying 139 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.600 long enough to memorize the rhythms of their life. He 140 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:14.519 didn't want money or material things. He wanted children, and 141 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.240 in the Grony family he found exactly what he was 142 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:17.839 looking for. 143 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:20.519 That's some creepy shit right there. 144 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.839 This man is scum of scum. 145 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.720 I will say that now well, and honestly, if you 146 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.759 just see him once like that, you would, you know, 147 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:33.679 just push it aside like oh, or just make excuses. 148 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.279 Right for sure, because it could be I mean, you're 149 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.080 out in the bush, people walk around, hiking, they hunt. 150 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:42.039 Who knows, right, Maybe it's a neighbor surveying his property 151 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:43.879 lines and gets up to yours and he's trying to 152 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:47.200 figure out where it is. Whatever acred you have, who's 153 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.600 to say? Now, it's when patterns start to emerge that 154 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.679 you start to think twice about things. But unfortunately they 155 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:57.559 didn't have that insight. They only saw him the once so. 156 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.240 One time, so it's yeah, it's easy to just be like, oh, 157 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.840 that was nothing. It was just kind of creepy, but nothing, yeap. 158 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.519 Now, as I mentioned, the back door even stayed un lock, 159 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:07.679 so the dogs would come and go, and no one 160 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:12.159 thought twice about it. But Joseph, well, he saw an opportunity. 161 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.399 May fifteenth, two thousand and five, was supposed to end 162 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.399 like any other night at the Grony home. The family 163 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.919 had spent the evening at a neighbor's barbecue, having fun, 164 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.279 and when they finally drove back to Wolf Lodge, it 165 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:28.080 was already dark. No one knows exactly when Joseph slipped 166 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.360 into that house, only that he had already been inside 167 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.240 before learning where each person slept and mapping out the 168 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.600 rooms exactly, regardless of how long. Once inside he waited, 169 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.120 he brought with them zip ties, gloves, a hammer, and 170 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:45.840 a sawn off shotgun. Somewhere between midnight and morning, Brenda 171 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:49.159 woke up first. She must have sent something was wrong, 172 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.240 a sound, a shadow, or the unmistakable feeling that they 173 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.639 weren't alone, just something. She went straight for her children's 174 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.840 room and shook Shasta and Dylan awake, whispering the kind 175 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.879 of no child should ever have to hear that someone 176 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.759 is in the house. The three of them walked into 177 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:10.039 the living room, where Joseph was already waiting, with gloved 178 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.519 hands and a gun in his grip. They were now 179 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:16.360 confronted with an armed intruder, and they were powerless. Now 180 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.600 things are a little bit vague here on how this 181 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.159 exactly played out, but we are following the events as 182 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:25.519 eight year old Shasta recalls it. And once the family 183 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.919 was all gathered, he then zip tied Branda first, then Mark, 184 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.159 then Slade. The two youngest children were then sent outside, 185 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.639 barefoot into the night, told to sit in the yard 186 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.039 while the rest of the family was dealt with. They 187 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:42.360 heard what happened next, but they didn't see it. The 188 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:46.080 thuds the screams and the sickening, dull rhythm of a 189 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:51.399 hammer striking flesh again and again coming from inside the house. 190 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.279 Now at one point during the attack, thirteen year old 191 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.840 Slade somehow made it outside, injured, staggering in a daze 192 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.840 and covered in blood, before Joseph drug him back inside 193 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:10.360 and finished what he started. Oh No, By the time 194 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:13.799 the house went quiet, three members of the family were dead, 195 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.399 and the two youngest children were alive, sitting outside in 196 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:21.720 the dark. But Joseph wasn't done. He then put both 197 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.440 Shasta and Dylan into the back of his jeep and 198 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.360 drove away from Wolf Lodge, past the darkened houses, pasted 199 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:32.200 the neighbors who'd soon be waking to sirens the past 200 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:36.360 life they had known hours earlier. While the siblings sat 201 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.519 frozen in the back seat, the dogs they barked in 202 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.120 the otherwise silent house, and early the next morning, the 203 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.279 neighbor who owed sleigh money came to the door. He 204 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.200 was ready to hand him a few dollars for mowing 205 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.799 his lawn as he was doing yardwork for neighbors. Right. Yeah, 206 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:54.039 he came, and he knocked, but there was no answer 207 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.840 in the home. Now on the driveway. The cars were 208 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.759 all still there, but there was no answer. In fact, 209 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:01.559 there there's even some doors in the vehicles that were 210 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:05.639 left to jar, a little bit left open. Something didn't 211 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:11.120 seem right, something was wrong, so he called the police. 212 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.840 When officers arrived and entered the home on the morning 213 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.559 of May sixteenth, two thousand and five, for that welfare check, 214 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:20.279 they found what they later described as a scene quote 215 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:25.519 beyond brutal. Brenda and slade laid in the kitchen, mark 216 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:30.440 in the living room, and there was blood everywhere, bloody footprints, 217 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:34.679 handprints splattered all over. It was an absolute massacre in 218 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:37.639 that home. But there was no sign of Shasta or Dylan. 219 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.000 It would be a complete nightmare in there. 220 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:44.039 Yes, that's exactly what it was. It was clear this 221 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:47.120 wasn't a burglary gone wrong or a fight that spiraled 222 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.639 out of control. It was a targeted, violent event in 223 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.039 a way that didn't match anything local law enforcement had 224 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:59.360 ever seen before. Three people brutally bludgeoned and murdered and 225 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:03.200 two young children missing, no signs of forced entry, no 226 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.919 obvious motive, nothing, and the killer hadn't even tried to 227 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:09.720 cover up or hide what he'd done. Zip Ties were 228 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:12.399 still left on the bodies, binding them together. Blood was 229 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.639 still fresh, like I said, footprints, handprints. The back door 230 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.159 was unlocked. The family car sat in the driveway, each 231 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.360 door left slightly open, like the killer walked away, not 232 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:24.679 in a hurry, but with a purpose, after looking around 233 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:26.320 and snooping in things. 234 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.480 Well, I have to say too, the one son that 235 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.639 he murdered was a child. Yes, I think you had 236 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.480 said he was like thirteen. That's a kid, Yes, definitely, 237 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:37.080 Oh my gosh. 238 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.759 But he had taken the two youngest, is what he Yeah? Yeah, Now, 239 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.159 the crime scene didn't just tell investigators what had happened, 240 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.240 It told them someone had taken time to do it. 241 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.360 Shasta and Dylan, of course, quickly became the priority right 242 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.840 out of the gate. They were assumed alive until proven otherwise, 243 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.679 and within hours an Amber alert went out statewide and 244 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:01.919 then nationally. Their faces were on TV, on highway billboards, 245 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:06.000 and inconvenience store windows and posters. Everyone was looking for 246 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.600 a little girl with wide brown eyes and a boy 247 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.679 with a shy smile. While detectives tried to figure out 248 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.039 who would want to murder a family and take these 249 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:18.279 two children. But the first forty eight hours went nowhere. 250 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.360 There was no forced entry, no obvious enemies, no ransom call, 251 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.240 no fingerprints that matched anyone in the system, no vehicle 252 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.679 spotted leaving the scene, nothing, No neighbors heard anything unusual 253 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.000 except the family dogs beginning to bark in the early 254 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.320 morning darkness. The killer walked out of that house like 255 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.320 a ghost, and investigators worked their way outwards in circles 256 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.200 trying to find something, starting with people closest to the family, 257 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.360 you know, friends or ex's, coworkers, neighbors, that sort of thing. 258 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:49.120 They questioned everyone in the area, including one man named 259 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:52.559 Concrete Bob Lutner, who was a rough edged local with 260 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.080 a criminal record and a rumored debt to Brendan Mark. 261 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.399 He had apparently visited the family the same day that 262 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.720 they were murdered, and he owed them approximately two thousand dollars. 263 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.480 He owned tools, he had a temper, and he knew 264 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.360 the house, so police announced him as a person of interest. 265 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.799 Within hours of that being announced, Concrete Bob himself walked 266 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.000 into the police station on his own accord and demanded 267 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.039 to be interviewed, and he wanted to prove he wasn't 268 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:23.559 anywhere near the house when the murders happened now as 269 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.679 alibi checked out and there was no physical evidence that 270 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:27.519 tied him to the scene. So just like that, the 271 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:32.000 only lead they had, well it disappeared. By day three, 272 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.279 national media had arrived, Satellite trucks lined the rural roads. 273 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.519 Reporters described the scene as if it were straight out 274 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.240 of a horror movie, and the FBI joined the case. 275 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:45.600 A one hundred thousand dollars reward was posted. Search teams 276 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.840 combed the mountains, riverbanks, and logging roads around Wolf Lodge, 277 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:54.000 trying to find any clue or even potentially bodies, but 278 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:58.240 there was nothing. Not a footprint or sightings, no vehicle trace. 279 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.919 The two children were just gone. Now. While Idaho detectives 280 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.360 were busy trying to find anything they could, the man 281 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:10.200 that they were after, Joseph Edward Duncan, was calm. He 282 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.399 was driving and eating at gas stations, and in the 283 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.480 back of his seat of that stolen red jeep, two 284 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:20.960 children were being taken deeper into a nightmare. Now. At 285 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.240 the time the murders took place, Joseph was already a 286 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:27.360 fugitive from another state, a registered Level three sex offender 287 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.000 who'd been released on bail just weeks earlier after being 288 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.679 charged with molesting two boys in Minnesota. 289 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.440 Oh, man, there's no reason that man should be released then. 290 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.240 Just you wait, he should be behind bars, like you said, 291 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.799 awaiting trial. But a judge allowed him out on a 292 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:50.799 fifteen thousand dollars bail, and a local businessman, convinced Joseph 293 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:56.080 had turned his life around, paid it and set him free. Wow, 294 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:00.679 fifteen thousand dollars bail for a level three registered sex offender, 295 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:01.799 the highest level. 296 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.039 I mean, gosh, it's like, you don't want to blame anyone, 297 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.279 but you kind of have to blame those two, the 298 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.359 judge and that business man, because they like, they enabled 299 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:13.400 him to be out of jail. 300 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.079 They one percent? Did I agree wholeheartedly? 301 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:20.559 Holy shit? So like blood is on their hands now. 302 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.279 Joseph's criminal record didn't look like the profile of someone 303 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:25.920 who might reoffend, which is kind of like, you know 304 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.119 the question, oh, would Joseph reoffend if we let him 305 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.200 out on a fifteen thousand dollars bail? Well, his criminal 306 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.519 record actually looked more like the portfolio of someone who 307 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.799 never stopped offending. By age sixteen, he'd already raped more 308 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.160 than a dozen boys. 309 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:41.799 What the shit. 310 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.319 At seventeen, he abducted and raped another child at gunpoint 311 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.720 and was sentenced to twenty years in prison, where he 312 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.880 served only fourteen. Each time he got out, he escalated, 313 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:59.400 gun stolen children, assaulted probation, violated state lines, crossed, re arrested, released, repeat, Oh. 314 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:02.319 My gosh, this is not okay. I feel like anyone 315 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.000 just that has even once heard a child should just 316 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.799 like never again. You just don't ever get an opportunity again. 317 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:13.880 I agree. No amount of supervision, no amount of therapy 318 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.519 or anything could change an individual like this. The system 319 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.839 kept sending him back out. The system was failing repeatedly, 320 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.880 and he kept doing exactly what everyone feared he would do, 321 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.599 which is reoffend. In the spring of two thousand and five, 322 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.400 when the Minnesota judge freed him, he didn't go home. 323 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.400 He didn't wait to face a new trial. I want 324 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.519 to know what he did. He rented a jeep, stole 325 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.720 license plates, bought night vision goggles, a camcorder, restraints, weapons, 326 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:45.519 and camping supplies, and started driving west. This was immediate 327 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:48.720 upon his release. This is what he did. 328 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.720 Oh my gosh, this makes me sick. Yeah, like this, Oh, 329 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.119 it's just the fact that this could have been really 330 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.400 quite easily prevented. 331 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.759 I yeah, but this is the problem. It's these these 332 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.960 reoffenders that are being released back into the world consistently, 333 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.640 the system not doing their job, the system failing and 334 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.559 allowing them to do these things to human beings who 335 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:15.160 are out there in the world and innocent. 336 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:20.599 Yeah. See, I honestly don't get mad like with I 337 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.920 mean the system, I guess I get mad at But 338 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:25.880 like judges and stuff, for example, I don't generally like 339 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.359 get mad their job is hard, but in this instance, 340 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.440 like I'm like pissed about this, Like that is just 341 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:31.039 not okay. 342 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.440 Yeah, I agree, I generally don't judge a judge. 343 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.920 Yeah, the different they have a hard job, but this 344 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.240 is just this is wrong. 345 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.440 Now, this judge fucking failed hard. 346 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:40.680 Yeah. 347 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.759 So, after driving with the stolen jeep and all this 348 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.440 new supplies, when he reached Idaho, he didn't choose a 349 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:47.759 target with a history behind it. He just kept his 350 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.079 eyes open. There was no grudge or debt or any 351 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.559 connection of any kind. He simply passed a small house 352 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.119 on a quiet rural road and saw two children, a 353 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:58.680 girl and a boy, playing outside in the sun, and 354 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.160 decided those were the ones, really, and it's that randomness 355 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.680 that haunted a lot of people later. The Grony family 356 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.359 didn't know him, deadn't crossed him. They never even saw 357 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.160 him before, or he even realized he was coming. When 358 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.839 Joseph took Shasta and her brother Dylan, he told them 359 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.319 they would die too if they fought him, and so 360 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.240 they sat there, silent and shaking as they drove for 361 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.640 hours into the mountains and into the forest. Their world 362 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.680 became trees, dirt, and a tent and cold air with 363 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:32.799 the man who stole them. The first campsite was deep 364 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.440 in the wilderness outside Saint Regis, Montana, isolated enough that 365 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:38.480 no one would hear a scream or stumble upon them 366 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.480 by accident. Joseph immediately gave them rules, things like when 367 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.960 they could eat or sleep, or go walk, or even 368 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.799 when they could talk. Everything was a test, and every 369 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:52.599 failure had an extreme punishment and beating and abuse. He 370 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.640 alternated between moments of kindness, letting them have marshmallow roasts 371 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.480 and giving him soda, and then bursts of violence. But 372 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.440 most horrific of all was the sexual assault that both 373 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.599 children were subjected to. Now, as I mentioned at the 374 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:09.119 very beginning. I'm not going to go into detail of 375 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:14.039 the sexual assault, but just know it occurred and it. 376 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:18.960 Was violent, which I mean, given what this piece of 377 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.119 shit is, it's not surprising, I guess. 378 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.759 Yeah. Now, Shasta noticed something early on. The more Joseph 379 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.920 focused on Dylan, the more danger her brother was in, 380 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.240 and so she did something no child should ever have 381 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.440 to do. She began to make herself useful to the 382 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:37.680 man who killed her family. 383 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:38.400 Dang. 384 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.680 She seemed to step up in situations, put herself in 385 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.559 the line of fire. She laughed when he wanted her to. 386 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.599 She asked him questions about his life. She pretended to 387 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.319 trust him, she called him by his nickname, all to 388 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:57.640 try and protect her brother. But Dylan was breaking. The abuse, 389 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.920 the starvation, and the constant fear it began to hallow 390 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.599 him out from the inside. Shasta could see it in 391 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.440 his eyes, the way he stopped reacting, stopped hoping, trying to, 392 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:10.920 you know, come up with an escape plan with a sister. 393 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:14.599 She promised him over and over that she would get 394 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:20.519 them both home, and then came a squirrel. Now Joseph 395 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:23.559 told them that the squirrel, if they caught it, well, 396 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.640 they could go home. Because the squirrel was ransacking their 397 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.519 camp and bothering them, getting into food and all this 398 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.000 sort of stuff lots. So if these two caught this 399 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.359 squirrel and got rid of it, they were good to 400 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.119 go home. That was the deal. And it was of 401 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:36.559