WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:12.119 All right, Ryan, we're back for an emergency broadcast on 2 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:15.439 the Odyssey because there's obviously a dearth of right wing 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:17.879 podcasters given their takes on this movie. 4 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:20.280 Well, where to begin, right? 5 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:22.719 So I wrote a review on The Odyssey on Keith 6 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:24.320 Woods dot COM's dot com. 7 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.519 Now not that pub by the way, maybe not in 8 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:27.879 the world. 9 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.559 Yeah, eat, pray sale quite like that title. 10 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.200 But like I said, i'd start at review, right. 11 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.920 I wanted to not like this movie, like I wanted 12 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:40.799 it to be a failure, but I was expecting to 13 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:45.039 enjoy it because I am actually a fan of Christopher Nolan. 14 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:46.000 I think you are as well. 15 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:49.679 We both we both the right Interstellar, especially quite highly. 16 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:52.479 Well, i'll call myself an X fan. 17 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:57.920 Now, I saw the last four films in IMAX, and 18 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:02.000 I think they've got gradually worse. I was very disappointed 19 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:11.079 after Oppenheimer. It was very fireless, fire a semetic and 20 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:17.920 I was very surprised by the glowing reviews universally. And 21 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:22.400 and this was even worse. It's it's barely even the 22 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:28.840 Odyssey anymore. It's a grand departure from the true values 23 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:34.480 of of the the of Homer, which is the foundation 24 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:40.799 of Western civilization. And it went beyond all my expectations 25 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:41.879 and was even worse. 26 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.680 Yeah, well we can get into that, but let's let's 27 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.400 start with the origin of the Big shutout online, which 28 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:51.599 was the casting. And like I said, I would have 29 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.799 I would have been critical of this movie regardless. But 30 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:56.439 if I enjoyed the movie, if I thought it was 31 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:58.159 a good movie, I probably would have just been silent 32 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:01.599 apparat from making fun of the ridiculous and choices. Well, 33 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:03.480 actually it was just I thought a really bad movie. 34 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.560 But the cast in is actually one of the big reasons, 35 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.560 Like this is not a secondary thing that he had 36 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.400 to satisfy for political reasons or something that really does 37 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:16.719 spoil immersion in the movie. It's also a lot worse 38 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.800 than I think any of us thought it would be 39 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:24.639 than the worst Nolan Hayders were predicting. And weirdly enough, 40 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:27.319 when it came out, people were saying, oh, there's only 41 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.159 you know, four or five minutes of the Peter Youngo 42 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:36.280 as Helen of Troy and Ellen Page's character they. 43 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:37.360 Just get a few minutes of screen time. 44 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:41.719 But it's actually much worse than that because Sinnan Ellen 45 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:45.879 or Earliot Page's character is actually a pivotal character to 46 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:49.759 the story opens to the movie and then has that 47 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:55.000 super important scene in the middle with talking to Odysseus 48 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.680 from Hades, which is meant to deliver an important moral lesson. 49 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.000 But then you also have character weren't really talked about, 50 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:05.719 this guy, I think his name is Himesh Patel as 51 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.919 odysseus right hand man, who's in the movie. Apparently for 52 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.800 about a third of the screen time. You have a 53 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:17.680 super multi racial ship crew belonging to Odysseus. Right, You've 54 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:19.960 got an East Asian guy there, there's an African guy there, 55 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.439 the the Indian second in command, and then even the 56 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.000 suitors there's an African there, Mung the Trojan soldiers, obviously 57 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.680 Helen of Troyce. So it's really sprinkled throughout this movie. 58 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:36.360 There isn't like an important act where these characters don't 59 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.120 feature heavily. And obviously, I mean, you know, just aside 60 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.960 from the political problems of this that you know, it's 61 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.840 obviously encouraging white iratire with this foundational European epic, but 62 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.199 it really spoils immersion in the movie. Like people talk 63 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.840 about this and they're like, oh, you know, you just 64 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:53.960 it should never bring your politics into it. But it's like, 65 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.840 it's one thing if this was a play or some 66 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:02.280 kind of modern interpretation of of an old story. But 67 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.400 Nolan himself has set the standard that he's gone out 68 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:07.479 of the way to have realism. And he said he 69 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.520 wouldn't let people wear uggs, on said and all this 70 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:11.800 kind of thing, and he was trying to think of 71 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.039 super realistic ways to make this like the Bronze Age. 72 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.480 And on top of that you have a story which 73 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:25.199 the background for it is how fatally perilous it is 74 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.959 to try and navigate even a small pocket of the 75 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.560 Mediterranean and the Bronze Age, and then you have people 76 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.720 that somehow from all around the world have wound up 77 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.800 on odysseus ship. So it totally kills the emotion. It's 78 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:43.439 much worse than the Chuds could have imagined. 79 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:46.680 I mean this is political for me. 80 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:52.279 I'm a European man from the Western heroic tradition and 81 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:57.439 it's a total inversion of the heroic. Matt Damon is 82 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.319 awfully cast as Odysseus. I think you were right to 83 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:05.120 point out that the cheeky Sean bean that appeared in 84 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:12.240 Troy was a far more fitting casting choice. Tom Holland 85 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:16.399 was awful as Telemachus. He's he kind of appears as 86 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:23.279 like a dragon mothered absolute soy boy. And you know 87 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:28.000 in the Odyssey, Tellimachus travels to Sparta and then he's 88 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:33.439 told the story of Orestes avenging the murder of his father, 89 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:38.959 and that gives him the impetus to, you know, help 90 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.519 restore his father's house. But when we when he gets 91 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:49.000 to Sparta, it's a Menelaus that ancient historians have brought 92 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:52.519 up looks awfully like the image of Andrew Date. 93 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:58.040 This was a there's some void historian that had this 94 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.600 take that Menelaus is supposed to be best Andrew Tate, 95 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.800 and the the online rate was like, lambassa and her, 96 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:05.839 but we're both kind of sympathetic, I take. 97 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.360 I think it's probably true. 98 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.279 Yeah, and well it is a very intentional choice because 99 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.279 who else in the movie or who in the Bronze 100 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.920 Age has like a totally bald head and then the 101 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:22.439 full beard and kind of complexion as. 102 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:23.439 Well skin tone. Yeah. 103 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.199 Yeah, and of course he's you know, objectifying Helen, and 104 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:28.040 you know. 105 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.240 He's just yeah, she's a she's a beaten woman, she's 106 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:36.240 got scars on on the side of her face, and 107 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.959 it just seems as though Christopher Nolan is a complete 108 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:46.759 feminist simp I mean his success. They were actually free 109 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.399 in an Olan clan. There's his brother Jonathan, who is 110 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:53.639 a contributor to the writing and the ideas, and his 111 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.639 producer is his wife who goes by her maiden name 112 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.560 Emma Thomas is it. 113 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.759 And I they met a university. They met in the 114 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:08.040 first week of university. 115 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:13.000 Nolan invites her to the film society and they're never 116 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.040 a part since they've been together for almost forty years. 117 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:20.319 They have four children, and I believe their relationship is 118 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:26.199 like the ultimate progressive English equal marriage is really how 119 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:29.680 you should understand the kind of ideas that Nolan is 120 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:30.439 pushing here. 121 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:34.480 Well, you give me an interesting detail that she reworked 122 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.800 the original Interstellar script to make Murph a girl. 123 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.839 Yeah, I mean yeah. 124 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.279 Jonathan Nolan apparently he originally wrote it as a son 125 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.759 and Christopher Nolan's wife intervened and said, well why not 126 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:55.240 make it, you know, a daughter relationship and she becomes 127 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:58.639 the great greatest scientists of all time. Well, you know, 128 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:03.240 we can we from women's achievements in science. They haven't 129 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:08.800 so far lived up to what men have achieved. So yeah, 130 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.720 it does feel a bit unrealistic at the end of Interstellar, 131 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:14.199 but you know, this is just cinema. 132 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.240 Now. Women are becoming far more. 133 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:21.879 Involved as directors, screenwriters. You know, there are many feminist 134 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:26.680 films now. Young girls are being raised on Frozen, which 135 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.240 has a very feminist plot, you know, Selene's Song, the 136 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:36.679 Korean and many other films. Hamnetts came out this year, 137 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.240 also very feminine film. I woon say it's feminist, but 138 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.799 it's you know, in the feminine world very much, and 139 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:47.120 this is becoming an increasing feature of Hollywood films. 140 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.559 Yeah, well, let's get into the movie. I mean, so said, 141 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:55.799 I said, like Odysseus, as Norlan presents him, he's he's 142 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.960 a hero for the therabeutic age, and it's really unimagined, 143 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.639 unimaginative what he's done and that he's taken. This character 144 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:08.679 that is very interesting and multi layered as presented by Homer. 145 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:12.399 You know, he has elements that are egotistical and selfish, 146 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.919 and you know, even puts his own men's lives at risk. 147 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.480 Obviously, the story. 148 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.559 With him having the hubris to go back and deliver 149 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.240 his name to the Cyclops as the best example, because 150 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:27.879 it gets some curse and causes all these problems. But 151 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:33.519 Nolan has just kind of collapsed everything into a very 152 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.399 common kind of Hollywood trope or archetype of basically the 153 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:43.639 kind of grizzled, pensive American war veteran. And that's how 154 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.080 Damon plays him. And yeah, I thought the casting, I mean, 155 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.679 outside of the diversity, hers was very poor as well. 156 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.759 Holland is the worst example, I mean, just so it's 157 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.960 wooden and bland, but Damon was very poor as well. 158 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.440 But it's hard to know how much even blamed for that, 159 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:02.000 because this is how Nolan. 160 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:02.799 Wrote the character. 161 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.919 Is he's just this grizzled, like Vietnam war vet who's 162 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:09.679 basically the entire movie kind of processing his guilt. And 163 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.600 that's the worst thing about the movie is perfect anything else. 164 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:16.159 It's just not very fun or entertaining, right, I Mean, 165 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.759 they kind of cycle through these plot points that Nolan 166 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.159 feels like he has to take off, and it's kind 167 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.720 of episode by episode, but it never has this epic 168 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.440 feel because it doesn't really feel like there's any world 169 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:33.399 outside of, you know, the immediate vicinity of what the 170 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.919 characters are encountering at any one time, and it's supposed 171 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.840 to be this you know, sprawling epic across the Mediterranean, 172 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.960 but all you really see is kind of the coastlines 173 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.120 that they land on and then run from stretches of 174 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.679 sea and the inside of his palace and Ehaica. So 175 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.759 it never feels like this, like I said, sprawling epic 176 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.120 that he had a huge budget to deliver on, and 177 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.960 he kind of cycles through these episodes and some of them, 178 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.480 you know, some of them you can tell his heart 179 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:04.840 wasn't really into it and he had to he had 180 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:06.279 to get through it. You know. He tried to do 181 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:10.240 obviously the Great Sea Monster without any CGI and it 182 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.000 was a little bit lacking, and he kind of rushed 183 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:14.679 that scene a little bit. But yeah, I mean it's 184 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.360 all you know, it's all there really to build up 185 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.720 to this climax of O this he is dealing with 186 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.039 the suitors, and even that doesn't really land. 187 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:27.960 I mean, I found it had no emotional core to it. 188 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:32.120 At the end, like he gets reunited with Telemachus and 189 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.360 you know, it's Matt Damon and Tom Holland with these 190 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.279 flat expressions and then they move on and you get 191 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.240 this very I thought disappointing climax scene as well with 192 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.600 the you know, at least in the story, you have 193 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.559 kind of a resolution to Telemachus's arc where he helps 194 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:53.200 his father dispatched the suitors. In this he doesn't even 195 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.080 do that, right, he tossed the weapon from the roof, 196 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.440 and mestically, the whole arc of Telemachus is like he 197 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:01.080 gets bullied and shared owned by his mother and the 198 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:04.519 suitors for the whole film, has this very lackluster, flat 199 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:09.519 reunion with his father, tosses him a sword at important 200 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.360 point in the movie, and then gets made king. Like 201 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:16.159 no one has a satisfying Eric I mean, Odysseus. This 202 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.679 is the whole thing. Nolan's Odysseus really has no arc. 203 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:23.360 Like in Homer, he has an excess of certain virtues 204 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:24.879 you could say, or he has you know, he has 205 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.679 traits that are misapplied, and you know, he basically learns 206 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.000 the lesson of the proper place to use his martial excellence, 207 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:35.639 which is in defense of his home and of his family, 208 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:37.799 and he becomes a more rounded person. And obviously that's 209 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:40.519 the core of any good story, is that there's a 210 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.279 you know, satisfying, progressing, logical character arc. Well, the arc 211 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.440 in this basically, as we find out at the end, 212 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:53.320 is that he's super guilt ridden for troy and he's 213 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:57.440 all guilty and pensive for three hours, and then he 214 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:02.799 processes his guilt by I guess speaking it out. He 215 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:06.240 has a scene where he expresses his guilt to his 216 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:10.480 wife and reaches out for the apparition of Athena, which 217 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.120 turns out is probably just at least this is my theory, 218 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.440 is just a kind of PTSD projection of his guilt, 219 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.720 and once he's kind of processed and he's lived back 220 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.559 through the events of the Sack of Troyes, she disappears. 221 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.480 So essentially his whole character Eric is that. 222 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:33.480 He's a guilty, mournful guy for three hours and I 223 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.679 guess eventually processes his guilt and then leaves Ithaca. So 224 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.039 there's there's no real character progression there. 225 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:46.600 Yeah, and all the real lessons of the Odyssey and 226 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:51.960 Iliad are almost completely left out, apart from the idea 227 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:58.679 of homecoming. Even the notion of Oikos the restoration of 228 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.679 the Lord in his high is kind of subverted because 229 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.559 he doesn't even take the throne. He just sails off 230 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.919 into the sunset with his wife because it's what she 231 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.559 wants to do. 232 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:10.200 Well, that's the implication. 233 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.759 And the film just completely strips out all these lessons 234 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:24.399 that you know, are basically created by wise men bards 235 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:32.039 to increase cultural, social political complexity. I mean, Xenia is 236 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:36.039 a you know, obviously a big part of the film. 237 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:39.600 And the right hospitality, the right level of hospitality to 238 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.039 travelers strangers, you know, because they might be a god. 239 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.360 But you know, in the Greek mythology that is clearly 240 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.600 aiding social complexity and trust in the Aegean because everything's 241 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:02.080 moving through by ships and you know, trade and high 242 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:06.679 trust is needed, and you know, these things really matter. 243 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.159 A great thing that was left out is Troy is 244 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:16.759 destined to be destroyed because Paris chooses Eros over power 245 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.559 and wisdom. So Paris has to choose from the free 246 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.200 goddesses Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena, and he chooses Aphrodite, which 247 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.799 is his lust. So Troy is destined to fall because 248 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:36.960 of Paris's choice, and also because the Trojans didn't pay 249 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:42.600 their debts. So King Priam's father had Poseidon built the 250 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:48.480 impregnable walls, and he Poseidon was never paid. So again 251 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.879 that talks about like commercial trust, and you know, there 252 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.679 are just so many lessons that have left out. 253 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:57.639 I mean it is you actually had knowed a little 254 00:15:57.639 --> 00:15:59.159 bit though, just you don't know a bit to be 255 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.200 you know, gone through all of the Homeric virtues and 256 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.000 complaining that Christopher Nolan isn't like making this some great 257 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.799 morality tale for men of the West. 258 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:09.960 Oh yeah, he's up against it. It is. 259 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.799 It is a complex story. You know, a lot of 260 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.639 it is told in the original text, is told through 261 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:23.759 the Fiatians when Odysseus slands there. I mean, why don't 262 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.399 we talk about the very start. Well, I don't know, 263 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:27.600 this is all just like. 264 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:30.799 I don't know, it's it's very. 265 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.080 It's I think it's a bit pretentious to go through 266 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.919 all of the like Homeric virtues and and want this 267 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:38.960 classical tale. I mean, obviously you're going if you're gonna 268 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.919 have a modern adaptation in IMAX as a big like 269 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.799 one point two billion dollar blockbuster, Okay, it's not gonna 270 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.039 be all of these lessons in the Greek virtues. But 271 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.480 I mean, like, let's get to the fundamental problem. The 272 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.000 fundamental problem, apart from it being very diverse and having 273 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:56.720 this awful cast. 274 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.080 It's just very gay, right, Like that again is the 275 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.000 absence of the masculine virtues. 276 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.680 Yeah, but I mean the thing is like I would 277 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.799 be open to some kind of modern interpretation or you know, 278 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:11.720 him being a bit subversive with it, but it's not 279 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.319 even subversive in a brave way. Like it's just the 280 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:19.480 most basic boomer slop, which is like be kind to strangers. 281 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.319 As he said in an interview, is actually the message 282 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.480 of the movie war veteran archetype processes is guilt. You 283 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.640 know that old trope that's been done to death for 284 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.440 decades now. And listen to your female conscience. You know, 285 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:36.319 it's the most safe, basic like the postwar consensus is important, 286 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.240 you dare Christian values of the foundation of civilization, and 287 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:43.079 even that it's one thing if if you want to 288 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.680 make some you know, Clint Eastwood style movie Grand Tarino, 289 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:48.960 that this kind of thing has these kinds of lessons 290 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:50.759 as well, like if you if you want to insert that, fine, 291 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.880 but why do it to the Odyssey? Like all of 292 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.359 the things you could have done with the Odyssey, and 293 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.359 his idea was to make Odysseus of all people, a 294 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:03.720 kind of Homer character. Who's racked with guilt or for war. 295 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.400 It's just not I don't know, it's not saying anything 296 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.720 interesting of all the things you could do with that character. 297 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:09.920 Like what kind of contribution is that. 298 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.400 Look, I'm not asking for their handmaids to be hung 299 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:18.519 at the end. I'm not asking for brutal graphic violence. 300 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.240 I'm just asking for some of the basic lessons of 301 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.519 Iliad Odyssey, which is the foundation of the West, which 302 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:32.440 does matter to our culture. And yeah, I mean talking 303 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.319 about the history the Bronze Age in the area of 304 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:41.160 the Mediterranean. During the Bronze Age, these were quite matriarchal 305 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:47.440 earth mother pantheons and our ancestors, the Indo Europeans, came 306 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:53.119 down and they turned the culture into a martial, aristocratic 307 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:59.440 heroic culture. And Iliad Odyssey they represent the emergence of 308 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:04.599 the individual as a named hero. And Ricardo lu Shane 309 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.480 does a great job of speaking about this in his 310 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:14.079 book Greatness and Ruin. That's the Mycenaean culture. It's you know, 311 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.319 we talk about the West as this individualism, but really 312 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:22.759 it's an aristocratic egalitarianism. And you know, the first scene 313 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.799 in the Iliad is an argument between Agamemnon and Achilles 314 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.920 over the right of Bresaeus. And again that's a devolution 315 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.359 of power from the tyrant the met you know, the 316 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:38.279 warriors need to be paid their debt and all these 317 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.519 you know, all these things are stripped out, as you say, 318 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.079 into the feminine conscience. But that is really our culture. 319 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:54.000 It's the the celestial gods overcoming the earth Mother gods 320 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.759 in that region because of the Indo European invasion, turning 321 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.000 it into an aristocratic complex culture. 322 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.960 And that's been totally stripped out. 323 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:08.039 And the fact that conservatives and the general public can't 324 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:13.279 even recognize that's what's been done just shows how much 325 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:18.920 our culture has lost its masculinity, lost its complexity, and 326 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.079 it's all being drawn back into this social cowardice. 327 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.359 And femininity. 328 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.160 Yeah, but I mean again, like one point two billion 329 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.680 dollar blockbusters, are we really expecting Noland to tell us 330 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.480 a story about the Indo European warrior culture, subjugate and 331 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:44.559 the Earth Mother? What was it would have been early 332 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.880 European firm or cultures there, right, I mean, like us 333 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.039 get to the basic problem, I mean, the basic message 334 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:52.799 that would be interesting to explore in the Odyssey that 335 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.839 you actually can do with a sort of modern interpretation 336 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.759 in a blockbuster format. It's basically that yes, worry of Ekos. 337 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.599 It's the you know, the contrast is Achilles and Odysseus, 338 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:10.079 and Achilles chooses immortality, true glory rather than a long 339 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.839 comfortable life where he was prophecy that he would you know, 340 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.079 find love and and you know, have a great home 341 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.440 life and family and so on. And Odysseus is kind 342 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.279 of the flip side of that, where he's willing to 343 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:24.920 reject immortality itself to go back to what's his, to 344 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.319 go back to Ithaca and his own family and his 345 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.279 own people. And you know, it gets to the art 346 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:35.240 of the difference between how the ancients viewed home versus 347 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:37.240 the kind of impoverished view of home we have now, 348 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:42.000 where there's there's this much more totalizing folkish view where 349 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.880 you know, you have gods within your household and within 350 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.640 your family familiar lineage, and then you have you know, 351 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:50.839 gods and laws within your city, which your family is 352 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.480 a part of. And it's it's this set of kind 353 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.720 of overlapping circles of belonging and law. But you know, 354 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.599 you only have mina, not as an individual, but you know, 355 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.519 coming from these things that that creates your familiar lineage, 356 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:08.640 your city, your ethnos. And that's a really interesting thing 357 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.920 to explore the fact that Odysseus is willing to take 358 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.640 this other path, and although he is a very in 359 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:20.279 some way's egotistical or you could say, lustful, glory seeking individual, 360 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.319 that home still has his pull on him. And of course, 361 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.839 the you know, the really credible scenes in the Odyssey 362 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.559 is when he encounters Achilles in Hades, who kind of 363 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.839 gives the other perspective on that resas that actually he 364 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:40.759 would rather be servant to the lowliest farmer and living 365 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:42.359 than be king over. 366 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:44.400 All the people in Hades. So I think that's a 367 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.559 really interesting thing to explore. 368 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.400 And you know, people that defend this say, oh, well, 369 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.279 you had to put that in kind of a modern 370 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:56.319 friendly moral lesson. But it's, like, you know, Troy, all 371 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.400 the problems that movie had in two thousand and four, 372 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:01.519 it was able to resent some things that were a bit, 373 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.400 you know, kind of against our modern ethos, even in 374 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.000 the character of Achilles and that he does choose a 375 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.960 life of war and glory over a long comfortable life. 376 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.519 I think the honesty could have been really interesting as 377 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:14.839 an exploitation on the flip. 378 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:15.000 Side of that. 379 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.000 But instead what you get is like Ithaca really has 380 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.240 no meaning in this film. Ithaica is just this background thing. 381 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:23.799 I mean, it's just the name of the place where 382 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:25.359 his wife and son happen to live. 383 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:25.720 Right. 384 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.119 You don't get this sense that he's returning to something 385 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:30.759 that kind of completes him, that you know that he 386 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.400 has this longing for home. It's just like, yeah, he's 387 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.319 got to go home and be a dad, right, He's 388 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.880 got to fulfill his role as a you know, a 389 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:43.960 suburban PTSD American dad. And of course how does the 390 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.920 film end, Right, He gets back to Ithaca, this incredible reunion, 391 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:51.519 this incredible story of KOs and he goes on a 392 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:52.440 cruise with his wife. 393 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:54.240 Right, as every every boomer. 394 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.680 Knows, is the dream of a fulfilled life is you're 395 00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:58.720 going to go off and spend your retirement money and 396 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:01.319 go cruising, which you're white and Norlan has now inserted 397 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.119 that sent to multiple movies right those Batman as well. 398 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:10.160 Batman becomes this incredible Nietzschean overman and overcomes and imposes 399 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.920 order and morality on the world and succeeds and turns 400 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.000 himself into into this weapon of justice. 401 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:18.279