Speaker 1: What is up, fell Sicko's I am to have Valley
coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host, the
one and only mister Grant Hughes.
Speaker 2: Trade deadline primers roll along.
Speaker 1: A good opportunity to talk about transactions, but also gauge
the pulse of every single team and what's going on
there before we dive into the Golden State Warriors. Mister
Grant Hughes, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm doing very well. I've taken a cue this this
will release later. But I did just read uh Trey
Young's outgoing message that he posted. I don't know if
you saw that, but a little couple of petty shots
at the Hawks butt like Trey, I'm moving forward with
head held high and move head held high and eyes forward.
I think something something to that effect.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw where where else? Would
your eyes be like now.
Speaker 3: Like sideways, cross.
Speaker 2: Backwards would be would would be disturbing?
Speaker 3: Impressive?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start off by going through the Golden State
Warriors vitals. You have some connection to the Warriors, so
would you like to take us through them?
Speaker 3: Certainly they're two hundred and sixty five thousand American dollars
beneath the second apron, which was much closer.
Speaker 2: I'd like that. Could you give me that euros please?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not? Probably pretty close, I can't. I don't know.
Would you like it pounds British pounds? Do we still?
That's like two to one, three to one. I'm sure
someone will correct us. That's closer than I thought, but
that they're under it, so I guess that's the important part,
which puts them nineteen point two million into the tax
and as such they cannot take back more money than
they send out, so they can trade. However, four up
to four first round picks. Those would be twenty six,
twenty eight, and twenty thirty two. Those can go outright.
Twenty thirty is that weird Wizard's one from the Jordan
Poole scenario that is protected from twenty one to thirty,
so you can trade that share of it. Essentially, they
have no second rounders to trade. One trade exception from
the Kyle Anderson move, which is I guess technically rolled
into the Jimmy Butler trade last I guess last February,
which is eight point eight million dollars. That expires though
the day after the trade deadline. So that's that's some
handiwork there. So essentially almost a second Apron team but
not quite, which is a significant difference in terms of
what their options are.
Speaker 2: The salary, that's a big deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that is a big one. So what are
some of the I don't know, like key issues we
want to discuss when it comes to them.
Speaker 1: We got to start here. How much trade value does
Jonathan come and get have Grant hughes?
Speaker 3: Uh? The answer is none or some? The answer is
not a lot? I can, I can? Is that narrow
enough for you that?
Speaker 2: I guess?
Speaker 1: The question is there's three buckets. Does he have trade
value as an actual player with upside? Is he Does
he just have trade value because he can be an
XPI contract or does he just have trade value because
the Sacramento Kings exist?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well they apparently are not interested in putting the
offer on the table that might have been there over
the summer. So I mean low hanging fruit first. Absolutely,
a theoretically expiring twenty two million dollar twenty I can't
remember if it's twenty two this year and twenty four
no guarant team option. Whatever it is that has value
just as it represents flexibility. I don't know what that's worth.
I mean it it would depend on the team, I suppose.
But so that's a floor, right, And then the problem
with that is like, well, that's valuable to the Warriors too,
I guess because that might be preferable to taking back
something you don't really want for Kaminga. So you know
what I mean, Like in this situation, A lot of
times you might trade the player with Kaminga's contract situation
for longer term money coming back. I don't know if
that's something the Warriors would be interested in and if
that long term, longer term money would be attached to
a player that would be helpful. Uh So to me, well,
let me ask you, do you think there's a scenario
where the best move for Golden State realistic scenario, the
best move is not trading Kaminga and just not picking
up the team option for next.
Speaker 1: Year, not if they're trying to be relevant, right, just
because even if you keep Kaminga past the trade deadline,
you have that team option to pick up and then
just use them as an expiring contract over the summer.
Where teams have more flexibility, they themselves can have more flexibility.
Depending on what happens with Draymond Green's player option. If
they're going what type, If they're going that route, what
message does that sense?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: Doesn't it kind of say?
Speaker 3: Sorry? Do you think this is kind of a sub
question that's very much related. Do you think that if
Kaminga is on the Warriors past the trade deadline that
they would pick up that team option and try to
just basically do the same thing again next year with
where he's here to be traded, Like can you? Because
to me, it's hard to envision a scenario where it's like, like,
what's the what set of circumstances have to happen for
the twenty twenty seven trade deadline? At that point, Kaminga
is like, oh now he is movable, Like what, Like
how does that? What's that?
Speaker 1: I think at that point you're still just hoping that
because he's the type of expiring contract that you would
hope you could step ladder your way to something else
because he just.
Speaker 3: Go a full year without playing ever again, Like you
know what I mean, He's like he's not playing now.
It's just I just I lean towards like they'll just
not pick up the team option and let him leave
because I don't I think, do another year of this.
Speaker 1: That will be one of the And it's not just
because they made that decision. I want to be clear,
that would be one of the most grotesquely misused asset
approaches of all time because it's this guy had trade
value for like some semblance of trade value for years.
You decided to wait until he was off his rookie scale,
and now you're gonna so that you what conduct the
tax next year because with him on the books, I
think as of now, and that's before filling out the
rest of their roster, they are like eleven and a
half million dollars into the tax and that's what eleven
players projected to be on the book. So that doesn't
I mean, I guess if you want to use your
mid level exception and think you could get someone better
than Jonathan kaminga sure, but if you're doing that, there
better be some type of wholesale rebuild going on in
Golden State or so.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying too, because it's you just
view this contract that is immovable, so you have this
distraction who's not playing and they're expensive. But I would
have to imagine in the era of aprons, if you
were willing to go into the tax having just that
expiring copy. Even I guess to your point, how underwhelming
are the offers out there for It's not I don't
even look at this as what are the offers for Kaminga.
Speaker 2: It's what can Golden.
Speaker 1: State get for the salary and the draft picks that
they have to offer. If you can't do anything with
Cominga to make any upgrades to your roster, I would
question how hard you're searching for upgrades. And again, it's
not about Cominga so much as there are players who
you can get, you're just choosing not to get them.
And so if you let the Cominga deal just come
off the books, you've decided you prefer financial savings over
upgrading the personnel, and look relative to the personnel that
who may be gettable. Maybe that's a conversation, but you
can't sit here and then pretend that you're trying to
do right by Steph at all.
Speaker 3: Right if you drive down that path, No, I think
that's fair. I wanted to back up a little bit
and ask ask you so because I'm on the record
as like I have a hard time, obviously with the
benefit of hindsight, Like, yeah, you should have traded him
a half dozen different times over the last like two
or three years, because his value is just it's hard.
His values has not been lower than it is right now.
So obviously it was a mistake to not trade him.
But I have been on the record several times having
said I can't really pile on the Warriors because like
I personally, everyone who's list knows I've vacillated a million
different times on like, oh I think he might be
a star, Oh no, he never gonna happen, And then
somewhere in between, like so I never dialed in on
what I thought Kaminga could be basically until it was
too late, which is kind of the exact same thing
the Warriors did. Do you feel like you had a
sense sooner one way or the other, you know, like
like say a year ago or something like would you
have traded him then? Like what yeah, because it's just
close to it. I'm too wishy washy about it. I
could never make up my mind.
Speaker 1: Everything is done with the benefit of hindsight, and we
have to factor that into critiques. But this is a
good The tree young situation is an interesting analog because
it's the Hawks had BOLTI opportunities to move Trey Young
at some point for real value. We know the Warriors
like the whole og Annobi or Pascal Siakam thing, not
wanting to include the picks or pods or Kaminga. That
stuff actually happened, and it was a conversation of should
they do it? Yeah, they should probably do it then,
and so that's why I would dig Now this is
technically a different front off it.
Speaker 2: I know Mike Dunleavy was there, but Bob Meyer really.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So it's the same decision makers.
Speaker 1: So I think that's what I struggle with is that
this isn't oh, you know it all of a sudden happened.
This has been a slow burn, this descent into oh
now he's just immovable or we won't move him because
the upgrade isn't going to be big enough.
Speaker 2: So if they don't move him.
Speaker 1: Whether it's this season or over the off season, that's
a grotesque misuse of an asset at that point. And
I I'm just man, I don't know, Like at that point,
it's like, what are we doing here? Why did you
go and make the Jimmy Butler trade. Then I just
like it just makes the messages coming from this organization
are kind of insane.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's because there's legitimate disconnect. I think
obviously ownership has been more on Comminga's side of things,
and the coaching staff is absolutely not on the Comminga
side of things. And like, I don't know who's right.
I think there it's it's fair to point out the
fact that, like it's a pretty specific type of role
player that works under Steve Kerr, and that's an it like,
it's hard. It's hard for guys to to fit that.
It's like Gary Payton the second like that guy, Okay, yeah,
we like him, but like the types of players that
tend to succeed in smaller roles don't play anything like Kaminga.
And the great irony of that is like, well, they
need someone that, in theory is like Kaminga to make
this thing work going forward. And it's just that this
the friction there has been like just priced in for
the whole time.
Speaker 1: I right, And that's a conversation I think is worth
having about Steve Kerr. I think that fans are just
the whole fire curve stuff. I just it, not that
it bothers me, but I think that's oversimplified. But you
can look at they're just certain types of players and
James Wise was never healthy enough. I think Jonathan Minga's
the billboard for it. I think Moses Moody even a
little bit too, to where it's if they don't fit
his archetype of player functionally and psychologically, that they're just
at this inherent disadvantage. I don't know that if he can,
he never needed to adapt until when was the first
year after Kevin Durant left?
Speaker 2: Is that what he really needed to adapt?
Speaker 3: And yeah, well Moody is a really interesting foil though,
because Moody is is that role player type, but like
the ceiling for him is so low, like he he
he is so limited in what he can do offensively
that it's like, well, yeah, he fits because there's never
a scenario where he's gonna go rogue and like try
to score and beat his guy because he can't, you know.
So like its just the types of players that Kerr
tends to prefer and that tend to fit are the
ones that are just never gonna be high impact guys
at least The.
Speaker 1: Problem is that how like Moses Moody's usage for most
of his Warriors tenure was wildly inconsistent until he got yeah.
Speaker 3: In and out of the road, like out of the
rotation entirely for stretches. Like but I, yeah, I guess
they're kind of two different things we're discussing.
Speaker 1: I think I will say I do think he's shown
growth just because of the way that Pat Spencer's a
Steve Kerr guy. But will Richard Quinton post those feel
like players who are antithetical to what Steve Kerr would
normally really invest in.
Speaker 3: They are What do you mean? What do you mean
when you say antithetical.
Speaker 1: Just because like they're not they are I would call that.
I don't want to be insulting to them, but it's
there are more of these baseline archetypes where they have
clear limitations, like a ton of them bordering.
Speaker 2: On liabilities or outright liabilities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt like Warriors were spending so much time
poking and prodding it and.
Speaker 2: Like even Pods is another kind of a good he's.
Speaker 1: Played, but it's just oh, like they need him to
be a primary shot creator. It's not good enough that
his jump shot is clearly better when you look at
the percentages than a lot of people were shooting. It
just felt like there was this hyper focus on always
what players can't do, and the more that they couldn't do.
It felt like, and now when you're operating at a
higher scale with Jonathan Kaminga, the defense, the playing off
the ball, the rebounding at times, yeah, that's gonna manifest
on more of a prominent stage. But just I think
a Quentin Poster, Real Richard would be an example if
we rewind like four or five years ago. Is Steve
like if you even if you needed bodies. I don't
know if Steve Kerr is gonna turn to players like
that unless you're clearly more and two with the team.
You can correct me if I'm just.
Speaker 3: No, I think you're right in in a lot of ways.
I do think that, using Post and Moody as examples,
in some ways they are like quote unquote Steve kerk
g because their skill sets are limited such that there's
not there's never gonna be a temptation for them to
be overly selfish or to stop the ball, or to
like try to expand beyond like the couple things that
they're asked to do. Mostly speaking offensively, I think defensively,
like the Warriors have been so good for so long
with different personnel that it's like Steve Kirk and coach
a defense. It helps to have Draymond, but like that's separate,
but like in terms of what happens offensively, it's almost
a feature sometimes, I think for Kerr rather than a bug,
if a player is limited or a role guy, because
he wants zero point five decision making. He wants not
pounding the dribble, he wants the ball to move. He
wants like guys that I don't know how to frame
this kind of like the pass, dribble shoot decision tree
is very often just pass or shoot because you can't dribble.
Like that applies to Post, that applies to Moody, like
he wants guys that will just fit in the system.
So sometimes limitations are positives, but obviously that leaves you
in the position they are now, where it's like Pods
is being asked to do things he can't do well,
and you need someone like what have I said all year?
Like they need someone that can beat his guy off
the dribble and make something ben the defense makes something happen,
and that guy, the player with that skill set and
like the confidence that comes with it, which again describes
KAMINGA sometimes is a bad fit because they see, well,
I have a scoring opportunity here individually, and Kerr wants
them to see like I shoot it immediately, or I
make the pass or I drive right away, and it's
not necessarily for me to score. It's to get the
ball back to Steph obviously, or you know what I mean,
Like I limited players, I think sometimes he likes more
because it's easier to integrate them into a system.
Speaker 1: Doesn't but I guess kind of looking back though, it
feels like he's favored the limited players who are going
to give you something on the defensive end.
Speaker 2: That there's the GP twos.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent right, you cannot the limitation you have
and this applies to KAMINGA cannot be processing speed, defensive awareness,
defensive effort like those are non negotiables pretty much. I'm
trying to think of like a counter example, and like
Jordan Poole is a counter example, but he had offensive
ability and.
Speaker 2: His role would be all over the place too.
Speaker 3: But right right, so yeah, no, so let's let's do
you have more? I think going to the next issue
of how aggressive they should be still taxed with cominga
because it's talking about how many picks you attached to something.
Speaker 1: Right, But I wanted to ask you the reverse for
a least about KAMINGA because just because you mentioned should
they just let his contract come off the books, you're
at this point already where he's making twenty two or whatever.
It is just as like a I'll call it the
worst case scenario if Miatmi just said, and you figure
out the salary math to make it work, here's Terry
Roziers expiring and we will give you seconds, Like, don't
you just do that at that point to capitol like
you've already spent it's basically the same money. You could
send out more money, mate, you might have to rope
in other teams, whatever, don't you just do that?
Speaker 3: At least I think based on the argument I'm making
against just saying, like, explain to me why a year
from now, if he's still on the team, the effort
to trade him will be any easier or more lucrative.
Like I don't see that scenario, So I guess I
have to say, yeah, you do, just do that, right,
You get something now, because why would you expect to
get more in exactly the same situation next year, really
worse situation, because one of the benefits to acquiring Kaminga
now to another team is like, well, we get a
full year to look at it, yea or a year
and a half, I guess really, but a year from
now you're saying we get two months if we acquire
Jonathan Caming on an expiring deal. So yeah, I think
you take it.
Speaker 1: The other thing that they could do, and this doesn't
really factor into the aggression, but do you just consider
just look at what happened with Trey Young. Let's talk
think of a player that they don't even fit. They
make zero sense on this team, But in a vacuum,
there's a chance to rehabit ilitate it because they have
that mystique to where if you perfect example that's somewhat
topical as of when we're recording this, you can do
Kaminga And I don't know how much money you need
more to attach Like you can get John Morant on
this team. Where's the you're not giving up picks? Like
Memphis decides they go to the Atlanta route. They want
expiring sat like you're throwing Buddy heeled in there, al
Horford's off to Memphis or something. At that point, do
you just do that or if kind of show you
do okay?
Speaker 3: Well, And I don't think John Morant's ever gonna be
an All Star again or anything close to that, but
I still do it just on the off chance that maybe,
I mean, that's so much more interesting, right, Like it's
a risk, it's but like there's a single digit percent
chance that Moran just once out of Memphis is different
and better. Yeah, like that, I mean I thought you
were gonna say, like Patrick Williams or something, just it's
just to throw out there like that.
Speaker 1: Well, if a team was willing to, we're just I
think we've moved beyond the point. These tracks are mostly
so short. With the acception of Yakka Pearls and Patrick
Williams' is for some reason that just go on forever andever.
I can't identify a team that's gonna be willing to
attach picks just to get off money. You would also
have to give up something like what is the bad?
I guess Patrick Williams would be an example. But the
bulls are the bulls and so yeah, okay, Ory, the
Bulls might actually do that, but they have no business
actually doing that.
Speaker 3: You could use like Jeremy Grant as an example, you know, like,
is that I don't see Portland giving up picks to
get off Jeremy Grant if Cominga's coming back? I mean, yeah, no,
I mean I was trying to maybe kind of, but
in this environment, it doesn't seem like that's the way
things work anymore.
Speaker 1: So I think now we can talk about how aggressive
how aggressive should they be before getting into well, what
do you expect them to do?
Speaker 3: Well, let me answer your question with a question, because
you always ask me this, and I think it's instructive.
How good is the player they need to let's say,
let's say they want I don't. I don't think they
really think they can ever be title favorites again with
this core, Like that's that ship has sailed for a
lot of reasons, But like, what, how good is the
player they need to get into the they can it
can't just be they're like, well they could win around,
you know, like to be like this could be a
conference finalist. This is a team that's as good and
dangerous in a postseason scenario as Minnesota, Houston, Denver.
Speaker 1: I would say, it doesn't need to be this player.
I don't even know if it's the archetype they need.
I don't think it needs to be an All Star.
I would say a fringe all Star along the Kobe
White line of demarkation. Can you get a player of
that level? And if I had, if you forced me
to say, well, better or slightly worse, it probably needs
to be a little bit better than that level of player.
That is sort of where I'm at, though, it's like,
maybe you could make The other thing I thought about
is could you make a series of smaller moves that Okay,
we got two or three guys.
Speaker 2: That come into the rotation.
Speaker 1: They're both top eight rotation members and that's how you
get there and the aggregate. But I think for them
to feel like they could enter the realm of Minnesota,
of Houston, Denver, I'm just gonna only name Western Conference.
He Detroit deserves some respect out he's in Boston. I
think it needs to be Would you agree or you
think it needs to be If we're using Kobe, let's
use Kobe White as the gauge, it need to be
better or worse than a Kobe White level player.
Speaker 3: I think he's got to be better, maybe not like
a ton better. I was wondering if you were gonna
go like this needs to be like he needs to
clearly become your second best player, Like this guy needs
to be like as good or better than Butler or
something something like that. This had version of Butler, by
the way, who's like not an All star, you know,
like that that kind of thing. So maybe that's not
that far apart.
Speaker 1: I think they're saying the issue there, But so I
mean that kind of dovetails with well, what is it?
What do the Warriors need specifically, because then that can
help us identify, well, who is this fringe star, who
is this second best player on the team. You said
it's someone who can go out get their own bucket
drive the offense that way. Is that where you're sort
of settling out or where's they're value in? We need
more of a like super duper high end toolsy guy
who's filling a bunch of different gaps.
Speaker 3: For Yeah, so I think I guess to be as
broad as possible to begin with, it needs to be
a player who is primarily an offensive threat the defense
is good. It's gonna be fine, like they that's it's
we can rely on that. The issue with the Warriors
is one it's still too hard to score with stuff
off the floor, and with him on it's still often
too difficult. Then that's because if he is not on
the ball, the person that has the ball just isn't
athletic enough, isn't dynamic enough to like cause the defense
enough stress. So it's got to be an offensive threat.
I think if you're if you're really working, like what
is the biggest issue, because there's more than one, right,
Like they need more athleticism on the front line, they
need another like knockdown shooter, like all that stuff is there?
Speaker 1: The number of things that you're mentioning that are supposed
to disco Jonathan Kaminga are actually annoying.
Speaker 3: Oh right now, you see why they held out hope
for so long because there's like, oh, if he could
just figure it out, he could tick all these boxes.
I think it's I don't know what position the player is,
Like I like guard it could be, because I think
it could be. You want a bigger guard, Like that's
why like Moran is not happening. But like if it's
a player who's actually smaller and plays even smaller than Steph.
Like that's tough. Uh yeah, but it could be any position.
I think beggars can't be choosers. But I like a
wing that could do this stuff. But that's basically a
wing that can do the things I'm describing as almost
always an All star, right, Like a wing that can run,
you know, can break down the defensive facilitator score, like
that's that's a that's a fifty million dollars player or whatever.
So you know, I think they have to adjust their
expectations down a little bit. But would you agree that that?
Like to you, because I get caught in my own
little feedback loop, I wonder what you think as far
as their needs go.
Speaker 1: I would agree with everything, I guess. I don't know
how concerned I am about the playmaking, like passing aspect
of it, just because you have Jimmy. I know Draymond
has been just a disaster offensively this year, but you
in theory, you have him pods as a connector. They
still have this guy named Steph too, so I'm not
as worried about Pat Spencer.
Speaker 2: He's that motherfucker.
Speaker 1: So I'm not as worried about that, or I could
see if they're skewing towards someone who's a little bit
more oh coming, Like think if, like if Zach Levine
was cheaper, I wouldn't have a problem investing in someone
like that, just because I don't think they need him to. Like,
you just come in and get bucket self created off
the catch movement, do it. I could see that working.
It'd be nice if that's someone. Do you trust Zach
Levine to lead the non Steph minutes offensively? No, but
maybe you game it out and you just fill those
minutes with him and Jimmy Butler together, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I think that's fair because, like
I'm trying to imagine if it's Zach Levine and bench
players just to stick with the Levine example, that is
someone that makes the Warriors a threat to score in
ways that don't involve like a perfectly executed like dummy
off ball action, perfectly time backcut, perfectly places like the
degree of difficulty is so high for them to score
in a half court setting without Steph on the floor,
and I guess Jimmy gets to the foul line. But
that's he just athletically, he's not anything close to what
he used to be. So yeah, Levine. You can imagine
Levine going on a little heater where he's just hitting
pull up threes and they just like the Warriors don't
have that guy. So yeah, I think maybe maybe it
doesn't need to be like a super duper star, but
like Levine would should be off the table, right because
that's just that's the kind of money you don't want.
Speaker 1: No, you're giving up Kaminga and Draymond, or you're giving
up Jimmy Butler in that's an area xactly or that well,
by the way, I don't know that we ever footed before.
Just getting into like the wrap up and I'll throw
a bunch of trade targets out there, like normal, how.
Speaker 2: Aggressive should they be? Though? Like is this that?
Speaker 1: Like do you do you view this as from your perspective,
you have Steph you traded for, Jimmy Draymond still here.
Some of the like top end units are pretty killer
for them. Yeah, you've got these picks, throw throw that
weight around, see what throw pods in there, and plus
coming to salary, see what you could get or does
there have to be a more whether you want to
call it measured or realistic approach of.
Speaker 2: This is where we're at.
Speaker 1: We're probably not going to enter the inner circle of
title contention. Forget about the thunder, but we're not going
to be on the same If you don't think you're
going to be on the same level as the if
you think they're further away than is plausible to bridge
that gap between Minnesota, Houston, Denver those teams.
Speaker 3: I think this is We've had a version of this
conversation for probably the last two deadlines, maybe more.
Speaker 2: Basically, they won the title in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Right, I've always skewed towards I don't think they're that close.
I'm concerned about how bad it's going to be when
Steph is gone, And so like the further out you
go with picks, the less inclined I am to be aggressive.
So like you want to put the twenty six first
on the table, Absolutely, they're gonna be like a five
hundred is team maybe better. That's fine. Twenty eight gets
real scary because that kind of lines up with when
it basically everybody's deals seem unified and expiring, and I
don't know twenty thirty two is like, that's future grants problem,
So sure throw that one on there, and that the
section of the twenty third, because when you're talking about
being aggressive, I think it just has to do with
how many picks you're willing to give up, right like that, because.
Speaker 1: Is it more than Basically at this point, the question
is is.
Speaker 2: It more than one?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think if one, I'm good with, provided it's not.
The twenty eight is just kind of like blink a
blinking light that I don't want to give up because
that might be just like you gotta have that one
because that could be the or bottom out post current year.
If so, well, sure too. Let's say let's say you
put twenty six and thirty two or twenty six in
a swap or something something like that on there. Then
I guess the aggression question goes to, is is this
a Butler trade? Probably not, Like I don't think they're
gonna do that. I don't think they're trading Draymond, even
though like if you had a machine tell them what
to do that didn't feel feelings like that they'd be
like get rid of this guy?
Speaker 2: You know, is there any name?
Speaker 1: Is it just you honest that you think would get
them to move Draymond, And even then, doesn't it almost
you're gutting your team if you're trying to keep Butler
and ste I'm trying is like, what is the is there?
Speaker 2: Or I'll frame it this way. Is there more than
one name?
Speaker 1: So I'm just assuming if if Yon, if Draymond needs
to be part of a Yannest deal with Warriors, will
suck it up and do it. But is there more
than one name? We've gone through. We talked about Anthony Davis.
I think based off what you said they need, that's
a no. You're not like, what's the point of giving
up Draymond for that more than Anthony Davis?
Speaker 3: Well, there's that, I do think. I think if they
did so, let's in a hypothetical where the Warriors trade
Draymond and two firsts for Anthony Davis, I can imagine
myself very quickly talking myself into this is this is
a good thing. I don't feel that way right now.
I mean, Davis is a better player than Draymond. The
availability is a question and the cost obviously is the
biggest issue.
Speaker 2: Especially is a da curR player.
Speaker 3: I think the talent is yeah, right, is he going
to try to do too much, and I think he'd
be fine there, I guess the other So if it's not,
maybe the answer to your question is it is just
the honest. But then what about like Michael Porter Junior,
what about Trey Murphy. Maybe I'm stepping on the potential
targets here.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that this is the section to throw
it out and to see if they're let's I mean,
because what you're mentioning if you don't want to give
up Draymond or Butler, you're shopping in the Trey Murphy
Derek White price range. And I would say both of
those players are good enough for me as the Warriors
to say that's future Warriors problem, future Grants problem, like
I'll put picks on the table, But Derek White has
played his way off the trade block if he was
ever on the the Boston Celtics are just too good,
and the Pelicans unless they really are hot for pods, like,
you're not getting out of that deal without giving up
three first round picks.
Speaker 3: I don't. Yeah, I don't see how either. And even
if even if like Kaminga in three firsts, I guess
if I'm New Orleans, I'm listening just because two of.
Speaker 1: Those picks are post dating the contract of Steph Curry,
Raymond Green, and Jimmy Butler. Yeah, you're you're listening. Trey
Murcy is great, he cannot anchor an entire team.
Speaker 3: I don't think so either. I think, yeah, right, he's
he's additive, he's not like I guess it's it's unfair
if we're talking about Giannis versus anybody else, because like, yeah,
Jiannis is one m vps and titles like that's just
so different than a really good player like Murphy or
this year's version of MPG. Like those guys in a
playoff series, if they're out there with reserves, You're like,
this is probably a bad offense, you know, most most likely.
So so yeah, if if you have Pajemski in there too,
I guess he's probably yeah, he maybe he allows you
to get away with two firsts.
Speaker 1: If it's I don't know, I really don't think so.
Just because he's so close to his next contract.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, what do you think he's going to
get on it? He might be.
Speaker 1: Have you paid attention to the way that the New
Orleans organization runs their finances? I think any money is
too much money?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, Like I Derek White was Derek White.
The thing is, like the player I've been describing as
as the ideal target almost doesn't exist in their price range.
But Derek White. It just I want Derek White on
any team that I am trying to build, but hit
one he's I think you're right, Like, the Celtics are
just way better than the Warriors. So why are the
Celtics trading Derek White at all?
Speaker 1: Well, if they want to duck the tax, and it's
just they decide because they want the Celtics that they
want to really reset the repeater clock. They got to
get out of the tax this year and next, right,
if you can, you could do that by moving Derek White.
So if the pick equities enough, maybe they look at
it and say, well, we'll just keep Anthony Simon's and
use Derek White and Sam Houser to get out of
the tax. And but yeah, at this point it's harder
to get Derek White than I think it would have
been if we were having this conversation in July and August.
Speaker 3: Oh right, yeah, because he was on the list of like, well.
Speaker 1: The Celtics Honestly, if we're having this conversation around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: It BROI to get there.
Speaker 3: I have a hard time coming up with all the
targets for all the usual suspects.
Speaker 2: To me, I think I've gotten some.
Speaker 1: I have some off the beaten path aside from jaw
of course, Okay, what and this is not necessarily a
go all in type thing, but what about the bonus?
Speaker 2: About bonus?
Speaker 3: Is Draymond on the team at that point, I.
Speaker 1: Would say no, I would rather use him and command
to get to the money. By the way, at this rate,
is Sacramento giving you stuff to make that?
Speaker 3: I have no idea. Sacramento has historically been very interested
in former Warriors or Warriors adjacent people, whether that's executives, coaches, whatever.
I wonder what their tolerance for what their view of
Draymond would be if they're really like Scott Perry's talking
like lengthy rebuild. I don't know where Draymond fits there
just as a fit on the Warriors, though, I think
SI bonus at least like offensively gives you somewhere to
go where he's gonna he can you can run a
lot through him. That's his best features as as a
basketball player, probably is he you can use him as
a hub, so I think that would be interesting. I
don't if the goal, though, is to position yourself to
contend or come close to that. He's not a better
player than Draymond. I don't think for that.
Speaker 1: Peace would you agree he's he's not a better player
than Draymond? But I guess and if you don't trust that,
the Warriors have the other like him, Domas and Al
Horford and Quinton Post I don't know what that give
you as a defensive backbone. But he is someone who
in any given season could make an All NBA team.
And do you even have to I'm coming out from
the perspective of would you have to give up picks
to get him? And if you don't, that's something you
have to at least think of. Or no, Yeah, is
it just the emotional component of moving Draymond in that scenario,
it's just a non starter.
Speaker 3: It might be, It might be. I do think I
think you're right like there, I think the Warriors maybe
are a better regular seas in team with Sabonis instead
of Draymond. Even that, I think I don't know how
much they care about that though. I don't know. That's
an interesting one that you've You've caused me. Uh, I've
got a few more.
Speaker 2: Let's see if I can intrigue you.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: We've talked about these two tangentially, but it got me
really thinking because of the Trey Young price and now
the Ja Morant move rumors, these two players are significantly better,
I would argue, are more valuable than that kind of
tier of the Sabonis and John Is this distressed money now?
But you also look at their contracts and say, for
what they do where they might be better off as
your third best player on a contender bam Adebayo and
Jaron Jackson Junior.
Speaker 3: I would. So we're talking that's three firsts for either
of them, right minimum.
Speaker 1: Uh you know I said yes, but I don't know anymore.
Just if you're giving up because it's kind of who
do you trust to be an offensive anchor right now?
More Trey Murphy Jaron Jackson Junior Are bam out of bio?
The answer should be Jaron Jackson Junior. I feel like
a couple of years ago the answer should have been
bam out of bio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think if if you give me the choice,
I just go Bam because I think you and I
both are pretty bampilled, uh, because he fits everywhere, certainly
the Warriors, and he's can shooted now I actually haven't
looked recently.
Speaker 1: But the appeal of Bam, though, is counterintuitive to everything
else that we described though, because he's not He gives
you someone to run the offense through technically, but it's
never been great when he's not partnered with another star.
Speaker 3: With Jimmy though, yeah, sure, well, well I don't know.
I guess I guess they're probably fine after that. But
we're talking pretty starry, and that's because we've sort of
come at this from the position of if they're gonna
do anything, it's it needs to count like towards this
contention objective. What if it's like, because they do need
to be more athletic up front, I think, so what
if it's like you're You're Gafford Claxton.
Speaker 2: Claxton would be interesting.
Speaker 3: RW three tier of centers and like that. I don't know,
I mean, those are the price spectrum is pretty broad
between those three, but like, I don't think you're giving
up more than one pick for for any of those guys.
Speaker 1: I would think R W three is that's not even
making money work. Yeah, that's not you're not but that
he'd be an interesting fit on Golden State for sure,
But how many minutes can you play him? Claxton's interesting
because we've seen what he could do on drives. There's
been some playmaking him this year, But again, does that
if you're not I don't know how that that's more
than a I don't know if it's a two first
round pick situation. But it's not just that we've heard
that the Nests just don't want Johnathan could make us.
So John I think I'll make gonna pick and then
figuring out the money. I don't know if that does it.
But Nicholas Claxton would be really interesting.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think again the machine is making choices
now like Draymond, and maybe it's just Draymond and something
or Draymond and almost nothing for Claxton. The money is
not quite right, that's what?
Speaker 2: Okay, what about going what about going Ham?
Speaker 1: I don't know how many picks needs to be involved here,
but Draymond kminga salary and then you're trying to get
Claxton and MPJ.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, oh you knew I was going there.
I saw it again.
Speaker 3: Oh, I knew you're gonna say MPJ because it's like, well,
what else constitutes ham on the on the on the nets,
you're gonna get gonna get in early on jegor Joeman uh,
which is good. I mean again, the machine has to
be making calls. But like, obviously that improves the team,
right like it clearly because Kminga is not playing. He's
not playing and he's not gonna play, so you're getting
you're trading Draymond just just talking about right now, which
is again through some reasonable sets of eyes, is like
all that should matter because Steph is right now you're
getting Porter Junior and Claxton for Draymond. You're way better.
Like that team is way better. So, I mean, I
don't know what the pick outlet would have to be there,
that's that's probably all of them.
Speaker 1: That's probably probably looking at no. I was gonna say
pods in two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, throw throw pods into any deal you want at
this point because because of the next contract thing, and
because of that, I feel like I understand what he
is at this point.
Speaker 1: When you mentioned Larry Marketing, I just feel like he
needs to be a name that we would mention.
Speaker 2: That's just I think.
Speaker 3: For sure, And and if I'm utah, I'm like, I
think I can do better at this point without well
he's played this year. That's the other thing is is
we're talking about the Warriors like they're in a vacuum.
Every single target we've mentioned, like, there's probably a team
out there that could beat that offer.
Speaker 1: I wonder if if Indie's just sort of having a
coming to Jesus moment and whereas well, we don't know,
like could you get Pascal Siakam? Were they more likely
to go We're gonna go trade for a big so
that we could reorient around Tyre's Halibert and a high
draft pick.
Speaker 3: If I bet you Indy is thinking the latter, like,
well this time next year, we're gonna be cheaper to
have Draymond next year than I got to anchor that defense.
That way, you don't have to go get a center.
I guess, yeah, I don't know what do you have
anything else on them? Any other targets? I mean, this
is a tricky team to do just one because I uh,
everybody drink, I can't be rational.
Speaker 1: Well, let's I like to force you to make a prediction. Okay,
will the Warriors trade a first round pick by the trip?
Because that informs how is, if they're trading a first
round pick, you know they're acting because they're not trying
to get off money in that's an area. So will
they trade a first round does? I don't care how many,
I don't care which one. Will they trade a first
round pick by the trade?
Speaker 3: You guided me to the answer because I I don't
think what they're gonna do is just try to get
off money. I think if they're gonna do anything, it
will be to improve in the short term, and they
cannot do that without trading a first rounder, whether that's
attached to comingo or not. I think so I'll say
yes they will, and I, depending on what year it is,
could feel any number of different ways about it. Limits
that's my that's my main stance just that year, because
that's what everybody comes up. I don't know. I'm I'm
just gonna make that my thing.
Speaker 1: I'm wanna I'm I'm gonna go with you and say
they will trade a first round pick because I like
to root for chaos arout. We'd like to think that
our jobs have a point where we're gonna dissect every
team from a trade deadline perspective that moves will actually happen.
We'll have to wait and see anything else. Are you
ready to take us out of here?
Speaker 3: I'm glad this wasn't as painful as I thought it
would be. No, it wasn't fifteen minutes like you thought
it would be. No, it certainly wasn't. We knew we
were gonna go along on this one. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching Rate Review. Subscribe till your friends, till your
enemies share, share this. We're gonna clip these all individually,
probably at least for to see how it goes. So
you got a warriors man in your life and you
want to have them commiserate with.
Speaker 2: Us, Everyone's just gonna send it to you in the discord.
Dam right?
Speaker 3: What else I think that's gonna coverage? You want to
discord links in the YouTube and podcast description, shouts Franklin Keen. Apologies,
Jared Allen