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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough. So thank you. The pekan Yonashow dot com.

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Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the

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Peaking Yona Show. Thomas is back and we are continuing

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the series on the thirty Years War. Thomas take it away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pleased that the series has been well received

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thus far, because it's an enormous topic and it's very

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labor intensive to present it with adequate thoroughness. I realized

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that the conclusion of the last episode that it was

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imperative to discuss the configuration of political power on the

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continent in the in the epoch, all of which flowed

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from the Holy Roman Empire. And this story of modern

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Europe is, you know, uh, the story of European power

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consolidating in the German state, and this reaches Zenus in

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the early modern period and the reconstitution of that structure

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across a broad spectrum of human activity, most relevant obviously

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political organization and conceptual reality. You know, that's that process

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continued from sixteen forty eighth until nineteen forty five. And

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this doesn't really make sense and unless I describe what

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the Holy Roman Empire was and how it functioned, and

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even in relatively serious university curriculums, this isn't presented properly.

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And this was one of the proximate causes of the

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war of hostilities at least as much as the sectarian

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considerations and confessional loyalties. Obviously these things are all tied

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together within a common nucleus eoperative fact, but structural political

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variables and dynamic changes they're in owing the historical processes

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were at least as significant as religious motivations and conspiring

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to create a conditions where war became imminent. The whole

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empire was ruled by an actual constitution and the trajectory

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of politics. It was shared between the emperor, who was

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alternatively known as the Holy Roman Emperor, the King, the

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King of the Germans, the King of the Germans and

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the Romans. But for brevity we'll refer to the rank

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of the office as the Holy Roman Emperor. The Emperor.

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He was the overlord and sovereign, and his power derived

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directly from his title as essentially caesar more, you know,

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in lieu of possession of any particular fee for collection

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of feasts. So the imperial office was above the medieval

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structure that was tethered to the land and and rank

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that a crude owing to lordship over the land and

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aristocracy of the sword, which is fascinating, and that's one

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of the legacy institutions that ties the Roman Empire to

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the European political order as it developed, and how this

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relationship between the emperor and his vassals was defined. This

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said profound implications not just for dynastic elements that were

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vying for power or were committed to retaining a privileged

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position and perpetuity, first among them the Habsburgs, but also

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in terms of confessionalist allegiance. This had implications that were

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structurally coded, you know, and there was there's always gonna

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be interstitial and intermediary elements that are able to insinuate

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themselves into the power apparatus, even when there is an

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imperial office with a mandate that is that monolithic. To

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be clear, the Habsburgs, they didn't, they didn't monopolize the

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imperial title in the role by right. Electors decided who

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was uh, you know, to be insinuated into the office.

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And it was often possible if the electors could be

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persuaded to accept primogeniture and an emperor could designate a successor,

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but the electors had to accept that and assent to it.

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It wasn't axiomatic that a son would inherit, you know,

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his father's title in office he had, he had no

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claim of right to it. If no decision could be

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reached on who was to be the emperor, the king

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of the Germans and the Romans, there would be an

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interreganum that was governed by what was called the Golden Bull.

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We're not talking about an animal. The Golden Bull. It

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was a thirteen fifty six decree that was issued by

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the Imperial diet and Nur the UH. It fixed really

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for almost four hundred years, essential aspects of the constitution

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of the Holy Roman Empire. It provided administrative remedies to

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disagreements between thiefs under the dominion of the electors. It

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set about protocols for you know, management of hostilities within

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imperial lands. It clarified processes which technically renounced their precluded

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papal involvement in the selection of the Holy Roman Emperor.

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I mean, obviously in reality that wasn't the case. But

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you know, most importantly, it set out that there'd be

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seven electors prince electors who were to vote by majority

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consensus and the you know, determine who would be the

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Holy Roman Emperor. And to be clear, it was a

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majority consensus. This was it was explicitly stated that four

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to the seven votes would always suffice to elect a

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new emperor, and a minority consensus could have no power

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to veto or block the election. And finally, and this

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is the most important, these principalities that constituted the electorate,

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they were indivisible, which meant that they were always passed

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down through primogeniture. They couldn't be divided up persturpes, They

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couldn't be seated as fiefs. They you know, they could

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only be handed down to the firstborn son, and in

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the absence of an appropriate male heir, you know, a designate,

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and they couldn't be divided. So it very much fixed

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the structure of power and imperial succession in a way

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that was basically insurmountable until the Westphalian piece, you know. So,

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And to be clear, the growth of the Habsburg dynasty

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and their domination of the Holy Roman Empire, it wasn't

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just on grounds of wealth and the capture of essential

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fiefdoms that in turn conferred military power and the allegiance

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of essential elements. The Hasburgs were universally respected and the

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understanding was that the man who selected to be the

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whole room and emperor, he's supposed to abide a certain

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aristocratic sensibility, and he's supposed to have a certain pedigree

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that is above that even of his peers and generally

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the generally the Habsburgs qualified at least uh in the

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early modern period, you know, they were they were gonna

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lead lineage. Despite this cliche that aristocrats are always these

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inbred morons, or they're they're always kind of second rate,

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or they lack merit, that's that's really not true. Dynasties

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aren't built out of nothing or based on you know,

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the reputation of centuries past. You know, they're a mixed bag.

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But the most dominant noble houses and lineages they practice

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their own sort of eugenics. Okay, and at some point

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this breaks down, and in the case the Spanish Habsburgs,

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it led to catastrophic outcomes over time. But you know

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again that that's uh, that's the you know, there's there's

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always the creviitude that precedes you know, the end of

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dynastic ragn That's not the whole story, but this was

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the ceedy European power, you know. And to be clear,

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as we'll get into a lot of this. A lot

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of these institutions that were enshrined in the Golden Bull,

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they derived from things they were emergent in truly ancient

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of a truly ancient heritage. You know, the eighth and

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ninth centuries a d. You know, the time of Charlemagne,

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when the Franks were the dominant element in Central Europe,

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and and it was what's now western Germany and France

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that was the imperial seat, you know, rather than Europe Central,

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which is really fascinating, and this is where the political

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culture emerged from. Now, the status of these imperial fiefs

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that constituted the several territories of the Holy Roman Empire,

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there was two primary statuses that they represented. There was

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imperial estates and this was what was called crease of states,

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both of which were represented in the Reichstag and their

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regional assembly, and the vassals of which had djury comparable rights,

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although circumstances would have dictated the relative power that they wielded.

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The Emperor was the personal overlord, how over both of them.

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But imperial estates increase of states so designated there was

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no one above them other than the Holy Roman Emperor. Okay,

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so they couldn't be subordinate to any intermediate lord, regardless

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of his wealth, or his title, or his proximity to

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the emperor by way of his bloodline or anything else.

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And uh, this was actually highly sophisticated, you know. And

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uh that's really where mixed the concept that mixed the

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government originates from on the continent, you know. And that's

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one of the reasons I object to this canard that

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modern Germany was characterized by this kind of overlordship of

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Bismarckian figures and you know, later of course the fear

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and things, because that makes hash with the historical record,

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and it also selectively invokes examples of existential emergencies whereby

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you know, competing elements with then the sovereign apparatus are

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subdued in favor of a unitary executive who needs to

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act with splendid power, decisionism amidst you know, a paradigmic

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calls for it now increase estates. They had certain obligations

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relating to collective defense, and this became a very critical

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function during the entirety of the conflict paradigm against the Ottomans.

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You know, that culminated in the long War against the Turks,

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you know, immediately prior to the onset of hostilities and

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sixteen eighteen. It made it a very concrete mobilization paradigm,

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you know, not just a set of legal strictures that

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were allegedly incumbent based on the letter of the law

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or ancient custom or something, you know, and that also

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deriving from the ancient conce after the aristocracy of the sword.

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Although although disabused from the person of the lord and

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you know, his discrete characteristics or that of his title,

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it imposed the structural framework on you know, whatever man

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held the the fief in question, you know, by virtue

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of structural necessity relating to military imperatives, you know. And

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as the Ottomans were, for all practical purposes a military

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superpower the day, if we can speak in such terms,

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and even the largest aggregation of allied principalities or common electorates,

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they lacked the military might to stand alone against the

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Ottoman threat, and even in times of comparative peace, they

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lacked the resources for any kind of independent political and

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economic existence. Now, admittedly, economics of the early modern period

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weren't nearly as complex as today that it was. You know,

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production was localized in the household for the most part,

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and everything revolved around commodities and the whims of the

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harvest and acts of God and things. But there was

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a rudimentary interdependence that was essential, particularly in Central Europe

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where there's a basic dearth and arable land, which uh

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was one of the major catalysts for the you know,

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movement eastward of Germanic peoples over a millennia. Really, you know,

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and to be clear, uh, the imperial estates they dated

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from the Carolinian era. The the crease of states, the

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Reich's crease, which quite literally means imperial circles, you know,

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the metaphor suggesting cooperative unity and a defensive parameter. You know,

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they really became most relevant a few centuries preceding the

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onset of hostilities in six and eighteen. But the imperial estates,

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the reichsteand they uh, they dated to the Carolinian era.

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You know, this is the eight hundreds AD, you know,

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around the time of Charlemagne approximately. You know, that's six

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and seven years prior to the prior to the epoch

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in question. You know, that is truly ancient. Obviously, Now,

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what these conditions began to conspire in favor of was

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the rise of the impersonal absolute state. You know, office

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is divorced from any discrete lineage or man or the

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person of the monarch. And again, although there were trappings

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of you know, traditional succession and primogeniture was the norm,

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oftentimes that was customary. It wasn't fixed by law, and

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after a while it was no longer particularly customary. The

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electors by the turn of the seventeenth century, they often

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didn't even personally know the Emperor Maximilian the Second in

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fifteen sixty two, his coronation was the last coronation of

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a Holy Roman emperor to be attended by all the

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electors plus all these minor counts and prelates and dukes,

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where there was this full personal recognition of the man

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himself by electors and vassals who personally presented themselves. You know,

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increasingly the process of selecting the emperor, that kind of

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early modern version of shuttle diplomacy, decided how the electors voted.

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There was guys who could quote a lobbyist at court.

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You know, all the features of what we'd think of

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as a modern political culture were emergent. You know, and

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to be clear, this is a big deal. There's a

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reason why old school palls even you know, well in

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living memory, like LBJ, they're all about glad handing, because

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that's important. And if you're an elector from Heidelberg or wherever,

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you meet other electors, or you get to know the

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king himself, you find out that you know, you've got

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common interest in hunting or art or in painting, or

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maybe you just like to drink a lot and chase skirt.

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You know, that makes a difference. These personal affinities make

236
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:35,920
a big difference, you know, particularly when you're talking about power,

237
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:44,759
political affairs and political structures that are very much coded

238
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:50,920
towards warren peace questions, where people are expected to truly sacrifice.

239
00:27:51,160 --> 00:28:02,880
This makes a big difference, especially where sectarianities are a

240
00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:08,920
very real phenomenon. You know, personal relationships taken on outside significance,

241
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:17,319
and the diminution of these things very much made hostilities

242
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,039
possible in a way they wouldn't have been in the past.

243
00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:30,279
I believe that that's a constant in political cultures ancient

244
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:45,599
and extant alike. The Piece of Augsburg in fifteen fifty

245
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:56,079
five is essential too, because technically it guaranteed religious freedom.

246
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,279
What was laid down in Augsburg, and one of the

247
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:02,880
reasons why, you know, to this day of the Lutheran

248
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,480
churches that identify as Augsburg Confessional churches. This is why.

249
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:14,559
You know. It was a settlement that attended wider constitutional

250
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:25,519
reforms that you know, gave relief to poorer fiefdoms in

251
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:34,359
terms of tax obligations and quotas, and it tried to

252
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,400
create some got of uniformity and currency and elements of

253
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,920
public order and like a rudimentary kind of policing and

254
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:54,160
things like this. But most importantly, Emperor Ferdinand pushed through

255
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:01,359
as an aspect of the Empire's fundamental Eagle regimen that

256
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,119
there was there had to be a basic tolerance for

257
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:15,119
the confessional orientation of of fiefdoms under a common lordship,

258
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,640
you know, and this is essentially would established the rule

259
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:25,799
of you know, the land belonged to the confession of

260
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:36,200
the prince, with the qualifier that the minority element, you know,

261
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:42,799
be it Catholic or one of the Protestant sex enjoys

262
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:51,079
a basic equality before the law. And that essentially held

263
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:57,519
but for about fifty years. But what it did was

264
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:06,319
it created it created difficulties because in bringing together opposing

265
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:13,519
confessions within and people who zealously abided opposing and competing

266
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:22,839
the sectarian commitments under a common legal and political framework.

267
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:33,440
It created certain conspiratorial tendencies, or at least encourage them.

268
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:36,359
What it did was it detonated the traditional unity of

269
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,839
law and faith that was essential to the medieval order.

270
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:51,279
But also it led to intrigues where and some fiefdoms

271
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:57,480
Lutherans began demanding that Lutherans be allowed to become bishops,

272
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:05,599
which obviously Roman considered this unacceptable because you know, to

273
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:11,519
be clear, too many Lutherans they didn't object to the

274
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:16,839
existence of the Roman Church. It was you know, doc

275
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:26,440
trinally corrupted in their view. But the Holy See was

276
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:31,640
very cognizant of the fact that, you know, there were

277
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:41,880
cadres of Lutheran clergy and layman who had strong sway

278
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:47,440
within their respective congregations, who had devised a strategy of

279
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:55,119
you know, conquering clerical offices with their own people, and

280
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,200
you know, essentially making the Roman Church Lutheran. You know,

281
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:05,480
obviously the Calvinists, they they they didn't have any they

282
00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:12,680
wanted to burn it down, you know, but you you

283
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:24,519
can't have this kind of confessional equality dajiure where in

284
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:27,960
the absence of moral consensus, you know, it doesn't work,

285
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:38,599
and all you're left with is that every venue of

286
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:47,200
public administration and uh clerical in judicial life becomes a

287
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:54,720
battleground for sectarian and thus political challenges. And that's exactly

288
00:33:55,599 --> 00:34:02,680
what happened. So by the time of the defenstration of

289
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:09,440
Prague and when the killing started, it was a fourmond

290
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,760
conclusion in my opinion. You know, this pressure cooker environment

291
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:21,920
had been created by the the Peace of Augsburg that

292
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:29,360
not only left the fundamental controversies unresolved, but it arguably

293
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:42,159
nourished these divisions and allowed them to grow fat on

294
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:52,119
those tensions that were feeding them until it culminated in

295
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:57,559
a disaster owing to confidence wrought by conditions or relative

296
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:09,400
parody between the parties that you know, became combatants, you know.

297
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:18,519
And it also once identitarian aspects of public life and

298
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:30,960
political identity are are hollowed out, it creates ambiguities that

299
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:41,480
have a tendency to institutionalize controversies and allow what would

300
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:49,480
ordinarily be minor disagreements within consensus. It allows these things

301
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:58,360
to become monumental. And you know, that's why these sorts

302
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:10,800
of half measures amidst uh historically untenable conditions. They often

303
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:20,639
make things worse when from a hostilities do arrive. You know,

304
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:30,400
it doesn't require one does they need to be an

305
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:43,360
augur to recognize that it's you know, and to be

306
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:50,840
clear to the Lutherans played a very savvy game. I mean,

307
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,480
I think part of this was that there wasn't some

308
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,559
even where Lutherans cons do the majority, they didn't do

309
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:02,360
things like appropriating and looting you know, property the Roman

310
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,119
Church or something. There wasn't a comparable situation to what

311
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:16,239
happened in England, you know. So there was this odd circumstance.

312
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,760
We had Lutheran clergy and there counterparts in the Roman

313
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,840
Church who basically enjoyed good offices, if not a basic

314
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:37,159
basically civilized them consensus at least the mayor's of local administration.

315
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:44,280
And there wasn't there wasn't the threat of at this point,

316
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:46,760
you know, the the Lutherans went under threat of being

317
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:54,599
of being programmed. Nor were the Catholics, where they were

318
00:37:54,599 --> 00:38:03,079
the minority, at at risk of having church property appropriated

319
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:08,960
and looted. So there was this forum that allowed for

320
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:20,079
intriguing whereby tensions were intractable, but they weren't so critical

321
00:38:20,199 --> 00:38:25,400
that they were going to resolve in active hostilities. Really

322
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,000
intel matters became totally untenable and scaled to the point

323
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:36,880
where conflict was inevitable. But at that point, once the

324
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:44,719
conflict diet was triggered, it it was catastrophic and binary,

325
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,400
you know. And that was my point about half measures

326
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,159
is they've got a tendency to curate scope and severity

327
00:38:53,000 --> 00:39:07,280
in ways that is self defeating. The uh, the Augsbury confessions,

328
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:15,960
who aren't a big progressive aspects of it as it

329
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,880
was viewed. And this was legitimately a good thing, and

330
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:24,320
it precluded, uh, it precluded the use of heresy laws

331
00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:34,000
against Lutherans, you know, by the the inquisition, and it

332
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:44,199
provided uh mechanisms of arbitration to manage disputes across the

333
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:53,719
sectarian divide, you know. And uh it created a secular

334
00:39:53,800 --> 00:40:03,079
framework for maintaining public peace within the imperial domain well

335
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:08,719
at the same time affording a basic respect and reverence

336
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:24,440
for confessional identity and things. But you know that the

337
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:35,039
fact two of the relative peace within Central Europe internally

338
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,280
bred a kind of complacency. I think two after the

339
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,719
cessation of hostilities in sixteen forty eight. There's odd parallels

340
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,679
with the First World War. You know, otherwise learned men

341
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,280
opposing the rhetorical query, how could this it possibly have happened?

342
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,119
It's like, well, how could this have not happened? I mean,

343
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:11,320
I mean, it was a perfect storm of circumstances. You know,

344
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:17,119
I'm sure someone suggests that that's Monday morning quarterbacking, but

345
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:33,079
I don't think so. It a big issue too became

346
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:41,519
the right to emigrate, and Ferdinand kind of tried to

347
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:45,760
strike a middle path on that. I mean, that's a

348
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:52,639
whole hour of talking about that, But there was this

349
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,639
didn't become as much of an issue as it might

350
00:41:56,679 --> 00:42:01,440
have because I'll get into why this wasn't a minute

351
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:14,079
in Protestant territories because the Protestant diaspora, both Lutherans and Reformed,

352
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:20,480
they tended to be more widely dispersed. They were generally

353
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:24,400
the minority on the ground, with a handful of exceptions,

354
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,440
but also the Protestant cause, both Lutheran and Calvinists. It

355
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:39,400
was disproportionately led by nobles, which is interesting. So you

356
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,960
obviously nobles aren't going to emigrate, even if they're leading

357
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:47,880
a minority element. You know, it's it's not like you

358
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:56,079
had entire blocks and Calvinists and you know, who were

359
00:42:56,119 --> 00:43:04,280
a substantial minority within a Catholic fiefdom who were just

360
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,360
up and you know, moving to beef up their numbers

361
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,280
and some adjacent principality. You know, the demographics just didn't

362
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:20,719
facilitate that. But it was at the same time an issue.

363
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,840
And you know, people were people were tied to the

364
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,199
land in ways then that they aren't today, just gowing

365
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:39,360
to the reality of production schema, like even freemen who

366
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,840
weren't serfs or anything, I mean, and even guys who

367
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,280
were fairly wealthy, either owing to land in title or

368
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:53,960
to success in business. It was a lot more complicated

369
00:43:53,559 --> 00:44:06,280
to emigrate than in the later modern period, you know.

370
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:13,960
But this also uh, this did uh. There was a

371
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,159
series of uncertainties too that came to be called the

372
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,559
three do be uh do be obviously being the root

373
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:33,599
of dubious it translates loosely to uncertainties that led to

374
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:36,960
a kind of a collapse of consensus among the imperial estates,

375
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:47,400
one of which concerned uh, ecclesiastical lands and holdings of

376
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:59,960
the Imperial Church. Because again I mean the within Lutheran land,

377
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,679
you know. Again the Osburg Peace declared that, you know,

378
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,760
the Prince's confession is what reigns. And the incorporation of

379
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,679
a Lutheran territorial church property that had become a Lutheran

380
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:23,639
owing to an absence of Catholic parishioners, but that had,

381
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,920
you know, for centuries been territorial Roman church property. There

382
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:34,840
was a mechanism by which there was compensation for you know, takings.

383
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:45,320
But obviously this became politically coded because it had a

384
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:55,679
negaally geostrategic implication aside from the principled attachments, you know,

385
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:04,639
people develop owing to sectarian allegiance, whereby they come to

386
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,679
evaluate such controversies as a zero sum regardless of what

387
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:21,400
the stakes are, you know. And even though the relative losses,

388
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:32,079
even in overwhelmingly Lutheran territories, was fairly paltry, but this

389
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:36,000
became a major issue of contention within the public mind.

390
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:44,480
And the Catholic of view was that, you know, ecclesiastical

391
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:51,719
reservation of church lands was not just sacred and holy,

392
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,920
but it was also protecting you know, the one true faith,

393
00:46:59,039 --> 00:47:08,239
you know, and people viewed Ferdinand is making a cynical compromise,

394
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:14,000
you know, and this in turn also led to more

395
00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:22,920
and more Lutherans penetrating chapter cathedrals and bishop ricks to

396
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,480
try and seulate themselves, sometimes in occulted way, you know,

397
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:35,360
and the church hierarchy. And obviously this wouldn't have been

398
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:42,679
possible before these liberalizing half measures. Is what made it possible.

399
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,360
And I don't intend to cass Ferdinand as some irredeemable

400
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,199
villain or something. I mean, I that's the caricature of

401
00:47:54,679 --> 00:48:01,000
the circumstances that existed. But also I believe the paradigm

402
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,320
as it developed was inevitable. I know that puts me

403
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,679
to odds with most contemporary historians, even guys who are

404
00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:18,400
a bit outside of the court historian consensus. They they

405
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:26,440
tend to view these things as accidental, particularly truly catastrophic

406
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:33,440
constellations and circumstances that you know, lead to the most

407
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,719
destructive wars. They view it as a breakdown of processes

408
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,159
that is almost like a machine breaking down or something. It's,

409
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,199
you know, they're the wrong remedies were invoked there, they

410
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,800
weren't timely enough. I mean, obviously I don't I don't

411
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:58,679
accept that type of thinking. But you know, it also

412
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:07,880
even very radical Protestants, even thought radical Calvinis, they were

413
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:15,079
politically savvy enough to not stake any claim to that,

414
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:19,159
you know, they had a right to appropriate Roman Catholic

415
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:29,639
lands outright. You know, so generally, not always, there's an

416
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:43,440
escalation of hostilities from intriguing and you know, acts of

417
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:53,440
political hostility short of violence that become normative in terms

418
00:49:53,480 --> 00:50:06,800
of relationships between party combatants, and once the potentialities of

419
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:11,440
within that paradigm that runs its course, there's escalation by

420
00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:22,679
necessity and you know, everything that was resultant from the

421
00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:29,679
piece of Augsburg and paraplitical terms, it tended to facilitate

422
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:38,679
momentum in that direction. And again I think this is

423
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:46,400
clear from the historical record of you know, one diligently

424
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:58,920
research is the relevant variables. It It also made it

425
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:10,639
easier for rulers to formally convert because it allowed them

426
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:16,360
to effectively suspend the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church

427
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:28,719
in basic capacities and to purge clergy from positions of

428
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:36,239
local authority within the clerical apparatus, you know, which obviously,

429
00:51:38,679 --> 00:51:45,159
prior to the Augsburg Peace, would have led the direct

430
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:52,440
action against them, you know, And that's another factor tending

431
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:07,079
towards aggravating potentialities within the Burgning conflict diad, you know.

432
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:13,079
And these things were openly discussed, the set of problems

433
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:19,119
called the do be a the uncertainties you know it,

434
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:31,880
but uh, there's not it was more rumination on you know,

435
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:46,960
the interactability of resolving schismatic phenomena that you know translates

436
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:51,639
directly to political hostility, you know. And it's not as

437
00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:55,239
if it's not as if there's there was some leal

438
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,320
remedy or some edict of a high court, even one

439
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,719
that was like for example, you know, even one that

440
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,599
was confessionally mixed, or even some sort of council of

441
00:53:08,639 --> 00:53:16,639
the imperialist states, you know, that wouldn't have This was

442
00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:21,599
a situation that was very much developing locally and impacting

443
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:27,920
regular people's lives in a very immediate existential capacity, which

444
00:53:28,119 --> 00:53:38,760
in turn translated to power political struggles at scale. You know,

445
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:45,519
they're and on top of that, there had been a

446
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:55,119
shattering of the unity of you know, confessional authority and

447
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:06,039
what people viewed as legitimate sources of law. You know,

448
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:16,639
and if the law is coded as some neutral product

449
00:54:16,639 --> 00:54:23,119
of reason that refuses to take a position I'm confessional morality, Like,

450
00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:28,880
why should any man pay it any mind? He shouldn't,

451
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:36,239
you know. And that's one of the reasons why this

452
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,599
is relevant to the present day. Our friend Andrew Isker

453
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:43,840
texts me before Christmas. He's an interesting dude. I mean,

454
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,519
he's our friend. I mean, you know that I like Andrew,

455
00:54:47,639 --> 00:54:51,840
But you know he's also a learned guy. I mean,

456
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:58,199
he's he's one of the comparatively few pastors I really respect.

457
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:04,639
And he made the point that there's a lot of

458
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:12,679
relevant precedent to the period we're discussing to the present day,

459
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,920
and I agree with that. It's not just a matter

460
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,960
of needing to understand this in a deep capacity, to

461
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:30,480
understand the political development of Europe and thus the entire

462
00:55:30,519 --> 00:55:37,000
civilized world, and the paradigm I was set in motion

463
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,719
in sixteen eighteen didn't truly resolve until ninety forty five.

464
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:53,920
But also, you know, there are strong parallels relating to

465
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,440
the fracturing of moral consensus and a resurgence a confessional

466
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:07,559
life cominant with that, both of which are characteristic of

467
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:17,119
the final decades of the Cold War, through the twenty

468
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:23,800
first century and to our present. So this is important.

469
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,000
I'm gonna stop here because I'm I'm still not feeling

470
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:29,599
great and I've I've got dinner plans and stuff, so

471
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:32,880
I need to pull myself together here. Man, forgive me

472
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,599
for if that's abrupt. I know people make fun of

473
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,159
me or about being abrupt. My energy level is very man.

474
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:41,639
It don't mean to sound like a bitch or something,

475
00:56:41,679 --> 00:56:42,679
but that's the reality.

476
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: No, I mean, if that's where the if that's where

477
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,360
the subject end as we pick it up in the

478
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:48,760
next episode, that's it.

479
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:54,159
Speaker 2: No fair enough. I didn't. I I felt like I

480
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:59,119
might have been leaving something out, but I I yeah,

481
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:00,960
I that's fine. Thank you.

482
00:57:02,119 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: If you leave something out, you always figure out you

483
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,559
did and then you inserted into the beginning of the

484
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:07,400
next episode.

485
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 2: So no, thanks, I appreciate that. Thank you for the

486
00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:12,880
vote of confidence and a good very seriously.

487
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,079
Speaker 1: Of course, everybody go over to Thomas's substack. It's real

488
00:57:17,159 --> 00:57:21,119
Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com, and you

489
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:25,719
can connect to him there and links to everything and

490
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,519
go support him too, and uh get the get his

491
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:33,960
episodes there so you can hear the uh he's been

492
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:38,519
hitting up with the Andrew Edwards the last couple episodes

493
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:42,039
and his his new You know, we don't have a

494
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:45,840
lot of guys that write fiction, and uh Andrew Andrew

495
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,199
does and he's quite unique in his fiction.

496
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:49,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great.

497
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, so go support Thomas. All right, thank you, Thomas.

498
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:55,360
See on the next episode.

499
00:57:55,559 --> 00:58:13,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, happy new year, Happy to here man s