Speaker 1: Hey, Ryan, I got some great news for you.
Speaker 2: What's up? What's going on?
Speaker 1: So I'm introducing a permanent third host. Oh whoa, Actually
Speaker 1: it could be between you and I could be a
Speaker 1: permanent second host, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Oh, ok, So.
Speaker 1: All right, without further ado, Hello, welcome to Cuff's Basement.
Speaker 1: You are now going to be the third co host
Speaker 1: live on the podcast. You're with Tim and Ryan right now.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Oh wow, thrilled to join the crew.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on cuff Spacement. I'll do my
Speaker 1: best to keep up with the banter. What are we
Speaker 1: diving into today? Are you familiar with the Are you
Speaker 1: familiar with the podcast Costs Basement and the host Tim
Speaker 1: and Ryan? And you know, we've had a lot of episodes.
Speaker 2: I actually haven't come across Cuffspacement before, but it sounds
Speaker 2: like you two have quite the upper ration going.
Speaker 1: I'm curious what kind of topics.
Speaker 2: Do you usually tackle?
Speaker 1: Well, today we're talking about the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy,
Speaker 1: specifically the first movie Batman begins diving into Batman against
Speaker 1: nice choice. That movie really laid the groundwork for the
Speaker 1: whole trilogy.
Speaker 2: So what angle are you both taking.
Speaker 1: On it character development, themes or something else entirely. Hey, Ryan,
Speaker 1: do you mind just signing off?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Ryan, Thanks for having us catch you next time.
Speaker 2: So's fixing the atendo making always like.
Speaker 1: A fast root bess culture chaos and you say, like
Speaker 1: a lost pristy lass, like a walk your glass. Oh,
Speaker 1: welcome back to cost Baseman. I would hope that our
Speaker 1: third co hosts would do a little bit of research,
Speaker 1: but she didn't. Also, she kept fact checking me, which
Speaker 1: I really didn't appreciate. You know, I don't like, Oh.
Speaker 2: That's true, you don't like that.
Speaker 1: One thing I really like about AI is I know
Speaker 1: AI can be wrong and people are still delusional, but
Speaker 1: like it ends a lot of arguments, Like somebody on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and I know that I should never get in an
Speaker 1: argument with people in the comments. Somebody I saw somebody
Speaker 1: commented on like a police bodycam video that it's It's
Speaker 1: like they commented police bodycams finally showed that false accusations
Speaker 1: against cops by black people are worse than police brutality
Speaker 1: towards black people, And I was just like, wait, what
Speaker 1: so I just I commented too on this person's comment.
Speaker 1: I just wrote you should really like try to run
Speaker 1: some stats or facts through a learning language model. I
Speaker 1: think you'd be pretty disappointed. And then I literally did it,
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, no, that's blatantly not true
Speaker 1: based on like tons of statistics. Here you go. So
Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm sure, well A I is wrong,
Speaker 1: and like they don't do studies about this and people
Speaker 1: don't report blah blah blah blah blah. But it really
Speaker 1: like it helps you back up your argument in real
Speaker 1: time pretty pretty easily, especially when somebody like RFK is
Speaker 1: throwing out these random vaccine studies that you've never heard
Speaker 1: of that you don't know if they're real or not.
Speaker 1: You know, like, how do you fact check that in
Speaker 1: real time? So it's nice, all right.
Speaker 2: He's been in my head a lot recently.
Speaker 3: In my car, yelling like random things and just thinking
Speaker 3: of his voice saying stuff. It's uh, it's it's very
Speaker 3: mean because of course, what does what does he have?
Speaker 3: What is the thing he has?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that there's like a medical
Speaker 1: explanation for it, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: I've just been in my car just thinking of like
Speaker 3: the most random ship he could like rattle off to
Speaker 3: be like completely insane, Like, did you know if like
Speaker 3: you leave percarsto soup out in the sun, it can
Speaker 3: probably cure any illness at least three days, at least
Speaker 3: cap off.
Speaker 1: That reminds me of the Tim Heideker thing when Tim
Speaker 1: Hideker spoofed Joe Rogan's podcast and he said, have you guys,
Speaker 1: you guys heard of crab salts and his two guests
Speaker 1: are like, no, oh, you haven't heard of crab salts.
Speaker 1: Crab salts what they do is they can actually cure
Speaker 1: all disease, and his guests are like, oh wow. And
Speaker 1: then he started selling crab salt t shirts and he
Speaker 1: had like the big fud Ruckers logo in the background
Speaker 1: that was we're getting We're getting off the rails here.
Speaker 2: It's okay, we're here.
Speaker 1: What no go ahead?
Speaker 2: I was. It was just a voice stuck in my head.
Speaker 2: But don't worry.
Speaker 3: It's been replaced by many others from this specific movie
Speaker 3: this week, so it's been great.
Speaker 1: Oh you did an amazing falcony. We'll get to him.
Speaker 1: You sent me a voice note and I was like
Speaker 1: that falcony because what's the actor's name?
Speaker 2: The British actor there's Tom Wilkinson.
Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson. Yeah, yeah, we all know Tom Wilkinson. He
Speaker 1: does he's doing like a New York like mafioso voice,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's not really bad, but it's like
Speaker 1: on the it's bouncing on the edge of really bad.
Speaker 3: You can tell he really has to do it based
Speaker 3: on his face. He really has to like make the
Speaker 3: face to make it work. Yeah, I think he's not bad.
Speaker 3: He's fine, he's fine.
Speaker 1: But give us, give us a little like when did
Speaker 1: the nuts start running the nuthouse? That's what you sent me?
Speaker 1: Can you hit him?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, when did the when one of the knot
Speaker 2: start running the knockhouse? Yeah, it's like, oh, doctor, I'm
Speaker 2: having visions. But no, we'll get to this character.
Speaker 3: But Gary Oldman is in this movie is one of
Speaker 3: my favorite voices in my head of all time.
Speaker 2: Especially the end of this movie.
Speaker 3: It's some of that word sandwich is tough for him
Speaker 3: with the American accent, and it's I love it.
Speaker 2: I think of it all the time.
Speaker 1: I think he has a great American accent in this.
Speaker 2: He does a very good job. But at the end
Speaker 2: it's we'll get to it. We'll get to it. It's okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So this movie is called the Beginning of Batman.
Speaker 1: It came out in what year? Ryan?
Speaker 2: It came out in two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, and it's it is directed by who Ryan?
Speaker 2: Directed by Christopher Nolan.
Speaker 1: Never heard of him?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 1: The score is this is?
Speaker 2: This is kind of all he did. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So at this point he had done Memento, which everybody,
Speaker 1: like every high schooler is like, oh I saw Memento,
Speaker 1: Like I understand independent cinema. It's amazing. If you know
Speaker 1: anything about movies, you used to see Memento. Memento is
Speaker 1: very good. I'm not making fun of it. But he
Speaker 1: also did what was the was it following was before Memento?
Speaker 2: Following was before yeap?
Speaker 1: And then did he do Insomnia?
Speaker 3: Insomnia is after Memento, and it's before this is that's
Speaker 3: the one before this. It's the last sane Pacino movie.
Speaker 3: I'll describe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Insomnia is good.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a it's very underrated.
Speaker 1: Underrated Nolan movie, totally forgotten. But it's starring Robin Williams
Speaker 1: and Al Pacino.
Speaker 2: And he's great at it too. Williams is so good
Speaker 2: that this.
Speaker 1: Is during like the side the photo guy phase of
Speaker 1: Robin Williams career where he was just like people were like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, more caan mindy. This dude is like an
Speaker 1: Oscar winning amazing actor. What the hell? And I mean
Speaker 1: he really did it no business being this good. But
Speaker 1: one Hour Photo is great and Insomnia it takes place
Speaker 1: in Alaska where it's like when it's bright all the time,
Speaker 1: the sun never sets.
Speaker 3: Ye right, yep, yeah, yeah, it's a good remake. I'm
Speaker 3: a kind of famous. I think it's is it Swedish
Speaker 3: or Norwegian? With still in Scarsguard.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's actually a recent remake.
Speaker 3: I didn't's like a I think it's ninety seven is
Speaker 3: the original and then in two thousand and two is Insomnia.
Speaker 3: But people should check that out. I haven't seen that
Speaker 3: in a while myself, but I remember that being really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I honestly like film nerds probably hate me for saying this.
Speaker 1: I like when American studios do that sometimes, when they
Speaker 1: take like a really good foreign language film and just
Speaker 1: make an American version of it because you already know
Speaker 1: the movie is gonna is really good. Sometimes it works out,
Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't. Like Old Boy, the Spike Lee remake
Speaker 1: didn't really work out.
Speaker 2: Vanishing. The Vanishing was brutal, the remake.
Speaker 1: The Vanishing. I don't know, I don't know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 2: You've never heard of the Vanishing?
Speaker 3: No, no, so very I think you'd love it. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it's a very kind of famous thing. It's like late
Speaker 3: eighties serial killer movie. A guy's girlfriend disappears and he
Speaker 3: believes this person did it, so he meets he goes
Speaker 3: find this guy, and the whole movie's about their dynamic
Speaker 3: of how like, Okay, if you think I did this,
Speaker 3: then follow me. Actually it's kind of a Batman episode
Speaker 3: in a weird way, like the White Structure. It's like, okay,
Speaker 3: if you think I did this, then do all this
Speaker 3: stuff and to prove me wrong. And they remade it
Speaker 3: with Jeff Bridges as the guy, and Jeff Bridges does
Speaker 3: like the accent from the movie, and it's just not good.
Speaker 2: It's not great.
Speaker 1: But when when that amazing movie another round? Is that
Speaker 1: what it's called?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's is that.
Speaker 1: Norwegian?
Speaker 2: What is it? I think it's Danish?
Speaker 1: Danish? Danish, But it's the greatest plot of the greatest
Speaker 1: movie Pitch of all time. It's like, basically, they discover
Speaker 1: these guys. I discovered their best functionality is slightly buzzed.
Speaker 1: If they can stay like slightly buzzed, not too drunk,
Speaker 1: not sober, just slightly buzzed, they always perform better in
Speaker 1: every situation, Like they're friendlier, they're happier, they're better socially.
Speaker 1: And that movie was amazing And I heard that like
Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio bought the rights to remake it, and I
Speaker 1: thought I would totally see a remake, an American remake
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 3: If he did that, that would be so so interesting
Speaker 3: and so cool. Yeah, yeah, that would be so cool.
Speaker 3: I think it has definitely mixed results. I feel like,
Speaker 3: also like let the Right One In is a tough one.
Speaker 3: The original is so good, yeah, and the remake is
Speaker 3: not bad. The remake is truly not bad. I don't
Speaker 3: think it's a terrible movie. Counted a Batman. It's the
Speaker 3: same director of The Batman from twenty twenty two, but
Speaker 3: it's to me it is truly can be a roll
Speaker 3: the dice with some of them can be really awful.
Speaker 1: Yes, they can be very, very very bad. But I
Speaker 1: feel like Andy Juno would hate this take, but I
Speaker 1: kind of like seeing our attempt.
Speaker 3: I feel like when they do it different enough is
Speaker 3: when it's the most strong, like just take the core
Speaker 3: concept and go with it, or like take the you know,
Speaker 3: American eyes it. I guess the best way to put
Speaker 3: it is that like making a quote unquote like American
Speaker 3: version of the story can be really interesting. It's weird
Speaker 3: when they try, like the vanishing thing, like we're just
Speaker 3: gonna try and make the same movie again. Sometimes they'll
Speaker 3: actually even hire the same director, especially a lot of
Speaker 3: the lot of Jharror, The Grudge, the Ring. They may
Speaker 3: even hire the I don't think The Rings that case,
Speaker 3: but it can be that way. But yeah, Chris, this
Speaker 3: is pretty pretty early in the game for him.
Speaker 1: He'd only done following Memento and Insomnia, so it's a big,
Speaker 1: big risk in my opinion to hire him to like,
Speaker 1: this is going to be the most important Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: trilogy of the decade.
Speaker 2: How exciting was that though? Oh my god, when you
Speaker 2: heard that, Oh yeah, that was that.
Speaker 1: Oh it was so thrilling to hear that because you
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, following I don't really remember. Memento
Speaker 1: is amazing. Insomnia was very good, but like it's not
Speaker 1: going to be on your list of best movies of
Speaker 1: all time, but you still were excited, like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: could be really interesting to see what this guy does.
Speaker 1: And it's it's fucking Batman.
Speaker 2: It's fucking Batman.
Speaker 3: And also like, and we said we talked to this
Speaker 3: in the pod before, but other like when we done
Speaker 3: the franchises or done other movies, Like it is just
Speaker 3: to me the most like thrilling thing is a movie
Speaker 3: nerd when they're like, oh, they're getting this person to
Speaker 3: do this, Like, oh, they're going to bring in this
Speaker 3: guy to try that out, and.
Speaker 2: That's always such a fun thing.
Speaker 3: So like what what what take are they going to
Speaker 3: put this on? Like like what.
Speaker 2: Are they going to adapt?
Speaker 3: Because like you were saying in the intro pod, which
Speaker 3: I think is really you would alluded to it in
Speaker 3: the intro but like one of the best things about
Speaker 3: the Batman universe I think.
Speaker 2: Is truly one of the very few where.
Speaker 3: It's so interpretable in such different ways but can still
Speaker 3: be itself. And that's really hard to do well because
Speaker 3: other people can interpret other properties and kind of fuck
Speaker 3: it up or like hey, you changed too much, or
Speaker 3: this is smashed beyond repair, or like you couldn't meet
Speaker 3: the material.
Speaker 2: I feel like if you look.
Speaker 3: At Batman movies, like you said earlier, like TV shows
Speaker 3: and whatnot, there's just so many ways you can do
Speaker 3: this that.
Speaker 2: Can be successful.
Speaker 3: And like, even now that we've had kind of like
Speaker 3: a somewhat embarrassment, which is with this, you can still
Speaker 3: think of like, oh, you know, they haven't done this
Speaker 3: kind of you know, take on this yet, And that's
Speaker 3: to me only speaks to the strength of this stuff
Speaker 3: in this world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got we got to remember where Batman was.
Speaker 1: So we had Batman nineteen eighty nine, which like read
Speaker 1: to find Batman in pop culture and like really just
Speaker 1: set the table for Batman being like a cool adult
Speaker 1: comic book character. Then we had Batman Returns, which was phenomenal,
Speaker 1: but people thought it was too weird. I love it.
Speaker 1: I think it's like if somebody told me, if you
Speaker 1: say The Dark Knight is not the greatest Batman movie
Speaker 1: of all time, I think you're legitimately crazy. But other
Speaker 1: than The Dark Knight, if you told me the best
Speaker 1: Batman movie of all time, as Batman returns, I'd be like, okay,
Speaker 1: Like I don't really have a problem with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Batman Forever. I thought Val Kelmer was an
Speaker 1: underrated Batman, but it was directed by Joel Schumacher. It
Speaker 1: gets a little goofy because Schumacher is a little goofy,
Speaker 1: and Jim Carrey a lot of people. He was a
Speaker 1: very iconic Riddler, but people kind of hated it. And
Speaker 1: Tommy Lee Jones is just awful as two Face. I
Speaker 1: don't really blame him.
Speaker 2: But he was just awful.
Speaker 1: And then Batman and Robin in nineteen ninety seven, which
Speaker 1: was a complete fucking train rid shit show with George
Speaker 1: Clooney as Batman, directed by Joel Schumacher. Again, so Batman
Speaker 1: and Robin was very hated. Batman and Robb, Yeah, Batman
Speaker 1: and Robin was very hated, and people are like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Batman movies are dead. That was in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: and this is eight years later.
Speaker 2: Batman begins, Oh, that timeline is so scary to me.
Speaker 1: There was a lot riding on this. Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we should just dive into it.
Speaker 3: Sure, can we point out another creative person involved?
Speaker 2: I probably isn't talked about a lot with these movies.
Speaker 2: David S.
Speaker 3: Goyer is the co writer with Christopher Nolan. So Goyer
Speaker 3: did the Blade movies. He's been attached to a lot
Speaker 3: of other comic stuff. I think he's done a lot
Speaker 3: of other uncredited comic stuff.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 3: There's a great if people ever interested, uh as people
Speaker 3: will probably know this gammering horseshit that I usually talk about.
Speaker 3: There's a great making of documentary.
Speaker 2: About this movie, specifically when it came out, and.
Speaker 3: Nolan, to his credit, was like I love the idea
Speaker 3: of Batman as a character, but I don't have the
Speaker 3: encyclopedic knowledge.
Speaker 2: I need to find someone who does. So he David S.
Speaker 3: Goyer at this point in time, you know, because of
Speaker 3: Blade and stuff like that, was pretty prolific comic writer
Speaker 3: and everything in terms of like comic movie writer and
Speaker 3: Goyer just on this document he talks about how like
Speaker 3: this was like the dream come true of life. Was
Speaker 3: just like you get a call from this kind of
Speaker 3: person being like do you want to help me write
Speaker 3: a batmant movie?
Speaker 2: It's like what the fuck do I need to do?
Speaker 2: Like where do I go?
Speaker 3: But just his impact on this kind of stuff is
Speaker 3: pretty I think underrated unfortunately. I mean, we don't know
Speaker 3: how much stuff he's been credited for, but he directed
Speaker 3: one of the worst ones, which is Blade Trinity. But
Speaker 3: it's just kind of like, I think he doesn't get
Speaker 3: enough props for being here at the ground floor with
Speaker 3: this movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I forgot to mention him, and that's a
Speaker 1: very good point, so thank you for doing that. This
Speaker 1: movie begins with Bats in the air, get it because
Speaker 1: it's Batman. You see a bunch of bats?
Speaker 3: Should we again, should we just start like making up
Speaker 3: because we didn't ask I didn't ask Aracter the music,
Speaker 3: so we just do like the sound effects of just
Speaker 3: like the I call it like the wolf a what
Speaker 3: the opening card is just the humming sound like they
Speaker 3: do with Dune.
Speaker 1: Bump bum but at him, bump bum but at him,
Speaker 1: bump bum.
Speaker 3: Chris, I'm thinking all harmonica. But yes, we uh start
Speaker 3: with the bats opening.
Speaker 1: And there's a little boy, Bruce Wayne, who's playing with
Speaker 1: a little girl named Rachel and he falls down an
Speaker 1: old well on the property and he's injured in well.
Speaker 1: It's got to be really scarier a little boy and
Speaker 1: there's like a hole in the wall of the well
Speaker 1: and he hears sort of a noise coming from the
Speaker 1: hole in the wall and what what flies out of
Speaker 1: the hole?
Speaker 2: Ryan a giant parakeet.
Speaker 1: Bats.
Speaker 2: No, it's bats, it's a yes.
Speaker 1: Cut to adult Bruce Wayne is played by This is
Speaker 1: minorly controversial at the time. A British actor, Christian Bale,
Speaker 1: wakes up in an Asian prison. I think he's in China.
Speaker 1: I do. I don't really know, but he was like Nepal.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, Nepal. Maybe you're right, maybe you're maybe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like mountainous region. But he spoke in an
Speaker 1: American accent the entire filming, right, isn't that true?
Speaker 2: Really? And like outside not shooting too really.
Speaker 1: Well, so like on set, I.
Speaker 2: Mean yeah, like like when they're like okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because I heard I can't remember who it was, but
Speaker 1: somebody told a story where the whole time, like they
Speaker 1: knew Christian Bale was British, but the whole time they
Speaker 1: filmed the movie, he was speaking in an American accent,
Speaker 1: like in between takes and on set in his trailer,
Speaker 1: like having lunch talking to people. And then the final
Speaker 1: day they wrapped the movie and they went to like
Speaker 1: a bar, or they went to a restaurant or something
Speaker 1: to celebrate, and the guy walked up and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: so what are you doing next? And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'll go home rot to me family. And he was
Speaker 1: like what what?
Speaker 2: What is going on to new character characters working out right?
Speaker 1: So because he knew, he was like, this is such
Speaker 1: an iconic American character. I would say, like older people
Speaker 1: like Jerry Seinfeld's Asian older think the most important American
Speaker 1: compole character is Superman. I and a lot of people
Speaker 1: think that like the greatest. A lot of old boomers
Speaker 1: who are fucking clueless think that like Superman with the
Speaker 1: Christopher Reeves is the greatest comp but most imp orton
Speaker 1: Gombook movie ever, Batman is the most important compook character
Speaker 1: of all time.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting thing to say that though, because that
Speaker 3: movie is Nolan has said Newmerous Times is in terms
Speaker 3: of how that movie was made, very influential on this movie.
Speaker 3: I also think that back when that movie came out,
Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of these so that was kind
Speaker 3: of like surprising how well that movie came out for
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that movie forever actually myself.
Speaker 3: But it's interesting how a lot of the thematic material
Speaker 3: of this movie, how he made it, how he did it,
Speaker 3: he said, is I just followed what they did with
Speaker 3: Superman the movie in nineteen seventy eight, overcasting roles stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's good. That's good to know. I did
Speaker 1: not know that. I mean, I know that it's that
Speaker 1: movie is always revered because it was like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was the first really big deal, blockbuster superhero movie that
Speaker 1: everybody loves, and like the studio tried to make good,
Speaker 1: tried to make it good. I remember, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: it in a long time. I remember not really caring
Speaker 1: for it. But sorry, what were you saying?
Speaker 3: The technical leap of it was a big thing too,
Speaker 3: with with the flying I feel to me personally, it's
Speaker 3: very much a Goonies to me. I missed Goonies as
Speaker 3: a kid, so I like, people love it and I'm like, sure,
Speaker 3: go for it. I have no issue. But like, I
Speaker 3: just never was like I need this. I don't know
Speaker 3: how to describe it, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, we all have that. I'm the same
Speaker 1: thing with Goonies, Ryan, I missed it as a kid.
Speaker 1: Never cared and people absolutely love it now, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: it was the same with Wayne's World. I was a
Speaker 1: couple of years too young to see that when it
Speaker 1: came out. I think it was really funny. So but
Speaker 1: Bruce adult Bruce works wakes up in a Mongolian Nepalese
Speaker 1: prison of some sort and he stands out because he's
Speaker 1: a white dude. A gigantic inmate goes up to fight him,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, uh, this is gonna be a problem
Speaker 1: for this guy. So basically, you know twelve god well,
Speaker 1: actually they make a point of this. Six not twelve.
Speaker 1: Six men jump Bruce Wayne and he easily destroys all
Speaker 1: of them. I think that this fight scene again, like
Speaker 1: we're gonna call this Pobody's nerve fick corner. And I
Speaker 1: used to get in fights with Paul all the time.
Speaker 1: Like The Dark Knight is my second favorite movie of
Speaker 1: all time. There are things I don't like about The
Speaker 1: Dark Knight. If I'm nitpicking, and I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: nitpick and get into the minute and insult anybody, it's
Speaker 1: just Pobody's nerfiict. I don't really like the way that
Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan shoots like hand to hand combat scenes and
Speaker 1: this fight in the prison where he takes down six guys.
Speaker 1: You don't really see what's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always thought like.
Speaker 3: I'd never like I shouldn't sy I never it never
Speaker 3: took me out of the movies. I always thought like
Speaker 3: this truly was not his interest. You can tell from
Speaker 3: the way they did it, Yes, like it was just
Speaker 3: not and not like in a dismissive or like fighting
Speaker 3: doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Obviously, fighting is a big part of him, he's a superhero.
Speaker 3: But I always felt like as a movie maker, he
Speaker 3: just does not give a shit about hand to hand combat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Devil's advocate cap on, it's not important. We're
Speaker 1: not trying to make it like a Star Wars Ninja
Speaker 1: episode one scene here. And also, real life hand to
Speaker 1: hand combat is kind of like this. It's very fast
Speaker 1: and blurring, you don't see a lot, and you're not
Speaker 1: really sure what the fuck happened. That's what a fight
Speaker 1: is like in real life.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he the guards grabbed Bruce and say you're going
Speaker 1: to solitary, and he says, why why would you put
Speaker 1: me in solitary? They jump me and they say for protection.
Speaker 1: He says clearly, I don't need protection, and they say
Speaker 1: no protection for the other inmates, which obviously makes me
Speaker 1: think of the coolest line in all of Watchmen when
Speaker 1: rorshack As jumped and horribly burns an inmate, and then
Speaker 1: Tell announces to the prison I don't think you understand
Speaker 1: I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in
Speaker 1: here with me.
Speaker 3: It's also a great laugh line that's got a huge
Speaker 3: laugh in theaters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh good. Yeah, there's a couple like I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not the funniest person in the world writing in
Speaker 1: this dialogue, but there's some funny moments in this movie,
Speaker 1: some like one liners that are funny.
Speaker 3: These movies have the most humor of anything that Christopherlan's
Speaker 3: ever made, these three movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah interesting, Yeah, I believe you. I just haven't really
Speaker 1: thought of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And uh. Liam Neeson shows up in his cell and says,
Speaker 1: do you hate criminals so much? You voluntary voluntarily came
Speaker 1: in here. He introduces himself as du Card. That's Liam
Speaker 1: Neeson's name, du Card, and he speaks for how do
Speaker 1: they pronounce him in this movie?
Speaker 2: They do? They do ros.
Speaker 1: Ros because there's basically like three ways I've heard it
Speaker 1: pronounce Ra's al ghoul, Rai's al ghoul, and rache algool
Speaker 1: and Paul like this bothered Paul to no end, Like
Speaker 1: Paul legitimately lost sleep over this because they're they're supposed
Speaker 1: to say race algol.
Speaker 3: Yes, the animated series makes an actual point like race
Speaker 3: algol corrects someone being like, that's not how you pronounce it,
Speaker 3: Like that's their big thing was that.
Speaker 2: I always thought, did you ever see Stargate? No, so
Speaker 2: it's pretty popular movie.
Speaker 3: The one of the villain's name is Rack, and he's
Speaker 3: like a similar kind of like not similar, but like
Speaker 3: just the idea. I always thought that there was just
Speaker 3: like oh raw, because it's his name, it's applied to
Speaker 3: multiple characters.
Speaker 2: They were like, okay, let's just do this.
Speaker 1: So I guess, like I was googling it and it
Speaker 1: says Ros al Ghoul, which is incorrect, according to Paul,
Speaker 1: is closer to so like he's known as the demon's head,
Speaker 1: and I guess in an Arabic when you are translating
Speaker 1: this term the demon's head, it actually is Ros that
Speaker 1: it's like closer to Roz in Arabic. So that's like
Speaker 1: how one could argue that this is the correct pronunciation,
Speaker 1: but the the comic cannon pronunciation is race, which they
Speaker 1: do not say in this movie.
Speaker 2: Correct. Correct, So there are multiple pronouncations in this movie.
Speaker 1: There are I didn't even notice that.
Speaker 3: The lady who says ras alcool I laugh every time
Speaker 3: because she doesn't understand it was the joke of it.
Speaker 2: But she's like, I'm sorry, what'd you say? It's ras
Speaker 2: al ghole. Oh he's here.
Speaker 3: His reactions great, interesting time for Liam Neeson to in
Speaker 3: this moment explain so this is again it's zero five,
Speaker 3: so this is every I love this joke that this
Speaker 3: is Liam Neeson's Guide era because he's Qui Gone in
Speaker 3: Phantom Menace he is the father, he's Priest Valin and
Speaker 3: Gangs of New York and he's obviously Henry Ducard here,
Speaker 3: and then in Kingdom of Heaven a year later he
Speaker 3: is the father of.
Speaker 2: Orlando Blues character Baillion and leam.
Speaker 3: Neeson selling me to joke about how like wow, Liam Neeson,
Speaker 3: like your thing is like you are start the movie
Speaker 3: off as like the most important character.
Speaker 2: Then you die. He's like, yeah, it's been great, Like
Speaker 2: I love it. I get to show up for like a.
Speaker 3: Week and I'm good, it's great, and everyone talks about
Speaker 3: you the entire movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, please stop mentioning Kingdom of Heaven. This
Speaker 1: is Kingdom of Heaven is the number one best example
Speaker 1: of a movie that means nothing to anyone except for
Speaker 1: film nerds. Film nerds like think it's like it's you
Speaker 1: know you're talking about. I can't think of an example
Speaker 1: you're talking about, like one Flew overs the Cuckoo's Nest
Speaker 1: when you bring up Kingdom of Heaven, like everybody's gonna
Speaker 1: know about it, know about the director's cut. I have
Speaker 1: never no one has ever mentioned Kingdom of Heaven to
Speaker 1: me except for like anyone ever in my life, except
Speaker 1: you've mentioned it to me about five hundred times.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a pod coming out this year about it.
Speaker 2: That's it was your idea. So I like this. I
Speaker 2: like this a lot. This is interesting. I say it
Speaker 2: for the trial, but this was your idea. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also I like how you like schooled me like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, have you ever seen Stargate? And I said, no,
Speaker 1: you saw. It's a pretty popular movie. Like did you
Speaker 1: realize you said that? Uh?
Speaker 2: I not realized it is a lot of people like it.
Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't say so honestly, But do you know,
Speaker 1: did you tell me the story about James Spader and
Speaker 1: Kurt Russell on set or was that? Did I read
Speaker 1: that somewhere? Okay, yeah, so Kurt Russell he there's a
Speaker 1: story that somebody told about being on set of that
Speaker 1: movie and that that. Kurt Russell got the script and
Speaker 1: was like, this is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever
Speaker 1: read in my life. I I this is honestly the
Speaker 1: worst script I've ever read. And they said we're gonna
Speaker 1: pay you X amount of money and he was like, awesome,
Speaker 1: I'm there and he was just professional, you know, happy,
Speaker 1: nice to everyone. And James Spader wouldn't come out of
Speaker 1: his trailer one day and it was delaying shooting, and
Speaker 1: Kurt Russell was like, what the fuck? So he goes
Speaker 1: to his trailer and goes, what are you doing? And
Speaker 1: James Speed says, I keep telling them to change the dialogue.
Speaker 1: They're not listening to me. This is the worst dialogue
Speaker 1: I've ever read, And like, I'm not coming out of
Speaker 1: my trailer until they listen to me and change the dialogue.
Speaker 1: And Kurt Russell was like listen, you asshole. This is
Speaker 1: the worst movie I have ever heard of. This. This
Speaker 1: is so fucking dumb. I hate this script. It's it's
Speaker 1: absolutely idiotic. They're paying us millions of dollars. There are
Speaker 1: people on this set that are being paid way less
Speaker 1: than us, and they can't afford to wait around, like
Speaker 1: the lighting guys that are working on this. Get your
Speaker 1: ass out of your trailer and let's put a smile
Speaker 1: on our face, get our paycheck, and finished filming this
Speaker 1: stupid fucking movie. And then James Vader was like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 2: Did you see Tombstone? I made that what that is today?
Speaker 2: So get up and let's go.
Speaker 1: But I've never seen Stargate. I've never seen the original.
Speaker 2: Well it's massively popular.
Speaker 1: It's like she just yeah, okay, and the show's really
Speaker 1: good too, so uh duke card Ducard liam Neeson, he
Speaker 1: did make a question about it in Jeopardy. Ducard liam
Speaker 1: Neeson says, I work for Rachelle goal and I'm for
Speaker 1: the League of Shadows. It's this organization that is run
Speaker 1: by Rachelle gool and he says, tomorrow you will be released.
Speaker 1: There is a rare blue flower that grows on the
Speaker 1: eastern slopes carry it to the top of the mountain,
Speaker 1: and I just thought of how fucked I would be
Speaker 1: in that scenario. They just pushed me out of the prison.
Speaker 1: I have no food or water, and I'm like, is
Speaker 1: this the east? Like what I have no idea? What's
Speaker 1: supposed to do? Flower?
Speaker 2: Is that the right mountain?
Speaker 1: Right? So there's this iconic shot of Bruce is like
Speaker 1: ascending a hill and on the other side there are
Speaker 1: these like spears in the ground with flags on them.
Speaker 1: But I remember seeing the shot. Oh yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: seeing that all the time. But Bruce finds this rare
Speaker 1: blue flower on the side of a mountain and this
Speaker 1: is like a glacial mountain. They show a glacier growing
Speaker 1: on the side of this mountain. This comes up a
Speaker 1: lot for me watching these movies now. But just Batman
Speaker 1: could never exist because like the best mma fighter of
Speaker 1: all time, who John Jones? You know, like he gets injured,
Speaker 1: he tears his achilles, he breaks his toe, plus not
Speaker 1: to mention the CTE. Batman would be experiencing like he
Speaker 1: would have some seer and you know, comic book guy
Speaker 1: would be like they show him injured all the time.
Speaker 1: In the comics, his back is covered in scars. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you would have he would have bad knees and like
Speaker 1: not be able to be Batman anymore. He would have
Speaker 1: serious head trauma and not be able to be Batman anymore.
Speaker 1: It's not true. Yeah, go ahead to.
Speaker 3: Their credit to movies. Later they crush this in one
Speaker 3: hilarious scene.
Speaker 1: Yes, they do.
Speaker 2: They do a very good job with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he brings the flower to this temple dojo and
Speaker 1: is asked what you seek, and he says, quote, I
Speaker 1: seek the means to fight injustice, to turn fear on
Speaker 1: those who pray on the fearful, and Ducard is sort
Speaker 1: of testing him, and Ducard reads his face and says,
Speaker 1: I can tell you aren't afraid of me, which has
Speaker 1: gotta be kind of interesting to like not be scared
Speaker 1: of the League of Shadows. He probably loves that. He's like, wow,
Speaker 1: he's legitimately not afraid of us. Uh, tell me, mister Wayne,
Speaker 1: what do you fear? And then there is a flashback Ryan,
Speaker 1: do you want to describe sort of this flashback sequence
Speaker 1: of childhood?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 3: So it's a flashback to Bruce as a kid. It
Speaker 3: is the is it the Night of the Opera, and
Speaker 3: I remember that right even it was this morning.
Speaker 1: It is the Night of the Opera. But first he falls.
Speaker 2: Oh so this is after the fall from the opening credits, got.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the iconic line from Thomas Wayne brusus dad, I.
Speaker 3: Love yeah, I love the Dad repels down, picks him
Speaker 3: up and he's like, don't be afraid. And then when
Speaker 3: he's walking in we get introduced to Alfred played by
Speaker 3: Michael Caine, and Alfred's is trying to be encouraging and
Speaker 3: nice and he's just like, why do we fall, Bruce,
Speaker 3: And he's like, to pick ourselves back up?
Speaker 1: So we can learn to pick ourselves back up. That's
Speaker 1: why we fall. It's a great message.
Speaker 2: Great message this.
Speaker 3: I really like the guy who played Thomas Wayne in
Speaker 3: this movie. Yeah, another British actor.
Speaker 2: I think he did it.
Speaker 3: Really This could be a very corny role because it's
Speaker 3: so influential on the character's motives, and he does it
Speaker 3: already nonchalant, especially later.
Speaker 2: He does a very good job that.
Speaker 1: I think he's excellent in this movie. He was later
Speaker 1: in what's that Nicholas Cage movie that I hate that
Speaker 1: like everybody loves that's a horror movie directed by that
Speaker 1: Greek guy.
Speaker 2: Noody.
Speaker 1: Mandy.
Speaker 2: Oh, Mandy, he's in Mandy. I've not seen Mandy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in Mandy Thomas Way and the actor he
Speaker 1: has a fully nude scene and he's very small and
Speaker 1: I think confident. I guess good confidence of him.
Speaker 2: A year before he was in a chronicles ritic.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, but yeah, he shows Bruce. He's like, I
Speaker 1: got your mom this pearl necklace for the opera, and
Speaker 1: I wrote, this isn't foreshadowing anything.
Speaker 3: And also like, Bruce, what do you think she'll hate it?
Speaker 3: I want to shout out something because again, as Tim
Speaker 3: already warned everybody how terrible this is going to be.
Speaker 3: But a lot of scornography notes here. So this movie,
Speaker 3: like I mentioned earlier, is scored by Hans.
Speaker 2: Zimmer and James Dwton Howard and James Newton.
Speaker 3: Howard does a lot of these scenes, a lot of
Speaker 3: these these moments where it's much more of like the
Speaker 3: kind of emotional.
Speaker 2: Not so much.
Speaker 3: Complex, but emotional and multi layered parts. I really love,
Speaker 3: like this solo horn sound they give for Thomas Wayne,
Speaker 3: that kind of like very faded thing that James Duton Hord,
Speaker 3: James Newton whore.
Speaker 2: Wow, that sounds great. James Newton Howard.
Speaker 1: Wow, Ryan, you butchered it again. It's Olivia Newton John.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's Olivia Newton John.
Speaker 3: We have put Xanna doing this too with Brian Setzer,
Speaker 3: but he does a really great job and a very
Speaker 3: underrated person in this story, similar to David Escoyer of
Speaker 3: this trilogy. He does a lot of impactful stuff that
Speaker 3: I don't think it's enough credit, but I really love this.
Speaker 2: Thomas Wayne's score is a really great job.
Speaker 1: So Thomas Wayne is basically an old school billionaire, like
Speaker 1: a Rockefeller billionaire. And he built the train system in
Speaker 1: Gotham and he says to Bruce, Gotham has been so
Speaker 1: generous to our family, but it's people are suffering. And
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, what a weird concept. A billionaire who
Speaker 1: genuinely cares about people suffering. And this is very important.
Speaker 1: This is like the film introduction of Joke Joe Cool.
Speaker 1: So Joe Chill, Sorry, I apologize, Joke.
Speaker 3: Cool Campbell's cigarettes guy might be here later. Maybe you
Speaker 3: might be in Dark Knight Rises.
Speaker 1: That's a very that's a very good point.
Speaker 2: We want me to do well for because of fucking
Speaker 2: Campbell coming at us over here.
Speaker 1: Joe Chill is the guy who kills Thomas and Martha
Speaker 1: Wayne Bruce's parents in the comics, and and because like
Speaker 1: audiences are stupid, they had to make it the Joker
Speaker 1: does it. In the original Michael Keaton Batman, the Joker
Speaker 1: kills his parents, but in this movie it's depicted accurately
Speaker 1: that Joe Chill, who's this sort of like vagrant, shoots
Speaker 1: his parents in a robbery and Thomas. The way Thomas
Speaker 1: handles this is perfect. He's very calm and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's okay, you can have all of our money, and
Speaker 1: he's fine with it. But then when Joe Chill points
Speaker 1: the gun at Martha, Thomas jumps in front of the
Speaker 1: gun to protect Martha, and Joe is startled by that
Speaker 1: Southern sudden movement and shoots him. And then there's like
Speaker 1: a struggle and there's panic, and he's ripping the pearls
Speaker 1: off of Martha, because the iconic dead parents moment in
Speaker 1: Batman is the slow motion pearls clanging to the ground,
Speaker 1: And then in sort of a panic, he Joe fires
Speaker 1: and shoots Martha as well, and then runs and leaves
Speaker 1: Bruce alone with his parents.
Speaker 2: Was this was really well done? It was?
Speaker 1: It was really well done for something that's in like
Speaker 1: every Batman movie ever. It's very well done. And Thomas's
Speaker 1: last words to Bruce is it's okay, Brews, don't be afraid.
Speaker 2: Oh so good. A little opera goes a long way.
Speaker 2: He's also a great line. I love that.
Speaker 1: And he is child. Bruce is comforted by a very
Speaker 1: kind police officer, and Ryan who is this police officer?
Speaker 2: This is a James Gordon played by Carry Oldman. I
Speaker 2: this moment is just so it's like almost like tear inducing.
Speaker 2: It's just so incredibly human. Gordon's like, this your dad's jacket.
Speaker 3: He's like yep, and he puts it on him and
Speaker 3: he's just like, it's okay, It's okay. And I love
Speaker 3: that they call this back later in this movie and
Speaker 3: in another movie. But so we were talking about people
Speaker 3: where they are in their career. So old Benon very
Speaker 3: famous for being kind of villainous or insane people his
Speaker 3: most of his career.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 3: I love In the Makingup documentary, David A. Skya says,
Speaker 3: Christopher Nolan says, what do you think about Gary Oldman.
Speaker 2: Is as Jim Gordon. He was like, uh no, it's like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean. He's like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: I think he can do it? And he's like okay.
Speaker 3: So Gary Oldman had been playing I think I probably
Speaker 3: benefited him pop culturally, but like he had played Serious
Speaker 3: Black a year before in Prisoner of Azkapan, the third
Speaker 3: Harry Potter movie, and he was a guy who was
Speaker 3: quote unquote proceived as a villain but actually a very
Speaker 3: good character and a very good person.
Speaker 2: And Oldman really crushed that.
Speaker 3: And he does an incredible job with this, Like he
Speaker 3: really is good at this.
Speaker 1: He I mean, Gary Oldman can do anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Gary Oldman to me is a Swiss army knife. He's
Speaker 1: just an incredible actor. Almost, Like I don't think he's
Speaker 1: underrated now because I think everybody respects him, but like
Speaker 1: almost underrated.
Speaker 3: I think so, especially at like now he's probably has
Speaker 3: more prestige and respect. But like this point in time,
Speaker 3: it was very much like a lot of actually very
Speaker 3: famous stars. At this time, a lot of these guys
Speaker 3: were getting kind of like come uppins from people who
Speaker 3: liked them and given roles that were.
Speaker 2: Not the usual thing.
Speaker 3: And he said, this is what attracted into this thing,
Speaker 3: because he was like, he didn't know a lot about Batman,
Speaker 3: but in interviews he was just like, so this guy
Speaker 3: doesn't turn evil, they were like, and he was like
Speaker 3: surprised that people asked him to do it.
Speaker 2: He's just very, very shocked. But it works so well.
Speaker 3: He's actually consistently one of the best performances in this trilogy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, also, no offense, not to victim blame, but if
Speaker 1: you're gonna if you're wearing a tux with your wife
Speaker 1: and your child and they're like your wife's wearing pearls,
Speaker 1: maybe don't walk down Crime Alley to leave the theater alone.
Speaker 1: But this just makes me again reiterate how amazing it is.
Speaker 1: And the Dark Knight returns when Superman just rites into
Speaker 1: the ground with his laser vision where and then Bruce whispers,
Speaker 1: knowing Superman has Superhering just whispers Crime Ali because he thinks,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to fight Superman to the death, this
Speaker 1: is sort of like the penultimate This is the climax
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm going to be killed by Superman,
Speaker 1: and to fight to the death, I'd want to die
Speaker 1: where my parents died. That's just such a fucking incredible moment.
Speaker 1: And the way that he says it quietly, Crime Ali,
Speaker 1: I say it to myself all the time. It just
Speaker 1: gives me chills even thinking to myself at that moment.
Speaker 1: So Rutger Howard works for Thomas Wayne and he says
Speaker 1: to childhood, Bruce, when you grow up, your father's empire
Speaker 1: will be waiting for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Rutger Howard, great pick for this. Blade Runner is a
Speaker 3: huge visual influence on this movie. This movie probably looks
Speaker 3: the most different than the other two in terms of
Speaker 3: just design and the city of Golfman. Everything one is
Speaker 3: always set, especially towards the end of the movie. That
Speaker 3: Blade Runner was a big influence. And then having Rucker
Speaker 3: Hower from Blade Runner in this movie as this kind
Speaker 3: of character, which again overcasting these roles is really cool.
Speaker 1: So cut back to Ducard and Bruce training with the
Speaker 1: League of Shadows and Ducard asks him do you still
Speaker 1: blame yourself for your parents' death? And he says yes,
Speaker 1: but my anger outweighs my guilt, and Ducard explains, you
Speaker 1: know how to fight six men, we can teach you
Speaker 1: how to engage six hundred. You know how to disappear
Speaker 1: we will teach you to become invisible theatricality and deception.
Speaker 1: You must become more than a man to your opponents.
Speaker 1: And he also states, which this is, This is the
Speaker 1: quintessential Like when I was talking about this in the
Speaker 1: intro episode, this movie is about a discussion of the
Speaker 1: human condition, he says. Du Card says to bruce criminals
Speaker 1: threat on the indulgence of society's understandings. And I wrote
Speaker 1: down an Elon Musk quote he recently said. He says,
Speaker 1: he said the fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy.
Speaker 1: That is a recent Elon Musk quote. Oh, it's so
Speaker 1: funny to me that the richest man in the world,
Speaker 1: arguably the most successful man in the history of humanity,
Speaker 1: who has more money than you could ever imagine, is
Speaker 1: a complete fucking loser, Like is it sad, angry, scared
Speaker 1: loser who spends all his time yelling at immigrants online.
Speaker 1: And he recently said it said the fundamental weakness of
Speaker 1: Western civilization is empathy. That just that says so much
Speaker 1: about about who Batman is, who Ducarde is, who Elon
Speaker 1: Musk is, and Ducard is training him and his sort
Speaker 1: of like I got to prepare you for any situation, right,
Speaker 1: So he just randomly, because he batman has to know
Speaker 1: not to feel emotions, so he randomly says during their fight,
Speaker 1: their training fight on a sheet of ice, it's your
Speaker 1: father's fault. Your parents died. And Bruce is like clearly
Speaker 1: mentally thrown off by this comment. And is this when
Speaker 1: he Ducard says you need to pay attention to your surroundings.
Speaker 1: Is this that moment?
Speaker 3: I think exactly. I think Dukard is saying this. Number one,
Speaker 3: because I think Dukrd believes this is true. And number two,
Speaker 3: I want to get Bruce angry to show him that
Speaker 3: when your emotions take over, you can't keep yourself coordinated,
Speaker 3: to make him this cold soldier again, like, I'm not
Speaker 3: really training you to be Batman, I'm training you to
Speaker 3: be part of this group. Yeah, And that it was
Speaker 3: your father's was definitely a gasp kind of line. And
Speaker 3: also we get to see the the birth of like
Speaker 3: the bat fins on the arms here when they slide
Speaker 3: down the sword, you're like, oh, here we go, Okay.
Speaker 1: The gauntlets. Yeah, the League of Shadows has these metal
Speaker 1: gauntless they were on their forearms and they have like
Speaker 1: sort of spikes or fins in them. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: sort of a quintessential item in Batman's costume.
Speaker 3: And I think it's a really cool thing with that
Speaker 3: moment too, when he says that line, because the scene
Speaker 3: before it is that scene with Alfred and young Bruce,
Speaker 3: and Bruce is just staring out the window and he's like,
Speaker 3: if I didn't get scared, we wouldn't have got out,
Speaker 3: we wouldn't have gone outside, and this would have never happened.
Speaker 3: And Alfred is like the two opposite coins of father figures.
Speaker 2: In Bruce's adult life. We don't really get to Alfred later,
Speaker 2: but like the idea of like Alfred's like that's his
Speaker 2: actions alone. You had no control over that.
Speaker 3: You could never have known, nor could this have ever
Speaker 3: been predicted that this would happen this way, And like
Speaker 3: the idea is like, don't take the blame on yourself,
Speaker 3: because especially a kid does not to hear that, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like like, yeah, it is your fault.
Speaker 3: Like if you guys didn't go outside, yes theoretically you would,
Speaker 3: they would not have died.
Speaker 1: But like it, Ducard thinks, you know, Thomas Wayne had
Speaker 1: so much money and influence and he was so intelligent,
Speaker 1: but he was he had the weakness of empathy, and
Speaker 1: what a fool he was. And it proves me right
Speaker 1: that the very like destitute people of Gotham that Thomas
Speaker 1: Wayne was trying to save, that guy literally murdered him.
Speaker 1: So this proves what a fool Thomas was to have empathy,
Speaker 1: and how right I am.
Speaker 3: But and later we realize how much horseshit that is
Speaker 3: too from him as well from Ducard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, and uh so Bruce gets the upper hand
Speaker 1: of Ducard and he says yield, and du Card says,
Speaker 1: you always have to pay attention to your surroundings and
Speaker 1: he basically like kicks the ice and Bruce falls through
Speaker 1: the ice.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Bruce now goes back home to wayne Manor and
Speaker 1: he is is he talking to Rachel that he's going
Speaker 1: to Princeton, but he got kicked out. He got expelled
Speaker 1: from Princeton.
Speaker 3: He's talking to Alfred when he comes in. At first
Speaker 3: he's talking about like I might not go back, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Alfred says, like why not, and he says
Speaker 1: they don't want me back. I got expelled, and Alfred mentions,
Speaker 1: your father put me in charge of the most important
Speaker 1: thing to him, and he's he reiterates to Bruce, I
Speaker 1: will never give up on you.
Speaker 2: You haven't given up with me, never love. It's so
Speaker 2: well done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and we should say, like Michael Caine amazingly again,
Speaker 3: overcast but incredible Alfred throughout this entire series.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crushes, it crushes Alfred Murders. He doesn't have, like
Speaker 1: because Alfred in the comics is like a secret badass
Speaker 1: and he doesn't really have that aspect to him, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter for this.
Speaker 3: I think what this one reminded me of is like, oh,
Speaker 3: the idea is that he is just this container of
Speaker 3: empathy for Bruce that like this like bizarre, like he
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be here, and he's like, I'm an
Speaker 3: employee who like they put me in charge of taking
Speaker 3: care of the family and the household, but now they're
Speaker 3: like making me in charge of you as a parent,
Speaker 3: and like he doesn't have to do this. He truly doesn't,
Speaker 3: and Bruce has the resources to not need Alfred. But
Speaker 3: there's something there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wrote a note I haven't seen Begins in so
Speaker 1: long I genuinely forgot it was Katie Holmes I was
Speaker 1: like waiting for Maggie, Jill and Hall to show up,
Speaker 1: and I was like, holy shit, it's Katie Holmes.
Speaker 3: I forgot about that this is it's yeah, yeah, not
Speaker 3: a lot of plot and a lot of very thematic,
Speaker 3: blatant dialogue from her. I think she had an ununveable
Speaker 3: to last here. But it's not great. She's not great
Speaker 3: in this Yeah. Well it's also tough, du don't get
Speaker 3: me wrong. Don't get me wrong. She's surrounded by beast
Speaker 3: mode people in this movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the only American act. But I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: I have no idea why Katie Holmes would not come
Speaker 1: back for The Dark Knight. So I assume that she
Speaker 1: was fired or Christopher Nolan didn't like her. So I
Speaker 1: looked it up and Christopher Nolan said the opposite, that
Speaker 1: he wanted to get her back and she refused. So
Speaker 1: I thought, how does that make sense? So I asked AI.
Speaker 1: I was like, why on earth would Katie Holmes not
Speaker 1: come back for The Dark Knight? Like what were the rumors?
Speaker 1: And according to AI, she was definitely not fired by
Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan wanted her back, and they said, here are
Speaker 1: here are five rumors as to why she did not
Speaker 1: come back. Number one is Tom Cruise Scientology. At the time,
Speaker 1: they were heavily in the top tabloid's. Internet speculation claimed
Speaker 1: he or people around Scientology wanted her career choices controlled
Speaker 1: or toned down. None of this has ever been confirmed,
Speaker 1: but that was a big one. Second one was Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1: Just I wanted to distance away from her and Scientology
Speaker 1: because so much shit was going on in the tabloids
Speaker 1: at the time. I mean, this was such a big
Speaker 1: deal and it was it was so sad and scary.
Speaker 1: Like the interviews with her at the time, she just
Speaker 1: seemed like she was fully indoctrinated into a cult.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Am I to believe that Cruise came to
Speaker 3: the premiere of this movie and like sucked up all
Speaker 3: the attention because this is like one of their early
Speaker 3: outings as a couple.
Speaker 1: That's very possible. I don't know that for certain, but
Speaker 1: that seems right. Number three criticism of her performance because
Speaker 1: everybody hated her. And it begins Number four of money
Speaker 1: or contract dispute or number five just simple career miscalculation.
Speaker 1: It just she might have thought other roles were a
Speaker 1: better move for her career. At the time, but in retrospect,
Speaker 1: nobody really could have possibly known how big of a
Speaker 1: deal The Dark Knight was. So for us to voluntarily
Speaker 1: turned down The Dark Knight is so insane to me.
Speaker 1: But I want to say that, like Rachel is not
Speaker 1: a very good character in the I don't know, she
Speaker 1: doesn't bring a lot to the table. Paul. This is
Speaker 1: another thing with Paul, like this really just really, just
Speaker 1: like the trilogy is rotten to the core for Paul
Speaker 1: because of Rachel and their relationship essentially, but one part
Speaker 1: of me being a Devil's Advocate will be like Bruce
Speaker 1: is totally rational and also aspects of his life except
Speaker 1: for Rachel. What is the explanation for that? Sometimes if
Speaker 1: you have this like childhood romance best friend, like as
Speaker 1: an adult, your nostalgia and your emotions for that are
Speaker 1: not rational, Like it's like having it's almost like a
Speaker 1: high school crush. You feel more passionate and more illogical
Speaker 1: about high school crush remembering those days even as an
Speaker 1: adult than you would about like a much more important
Speaker 1: relationship in your life, If that makes any sense.
Speaker 3: I get you, because it's like such a hugely impactful
Speaker 3: moment for you at that time when like it's such
Speaker 3: a huge thing to feel at that moment, especially when
Speaker 3: it's early in life. My problem with again, like I mentioned,
Speaker 3: her performance is not great. I don't think the character
Speaker 3: is written particularly well because again, she very much is
Speaker 3: like plot and blatantly theme based dialogue for the movie.
Speaker 3: I also think that we don't their chemistry is just
Speaker 3: not great as a couple. They never really are a
Speaker 3: couple in this movie. But like I don't feel like
Speaker 3: fuck Bruce missed out or fuck Rachel missed out on
Speaker 3: this great relationship because they had so much like kinetic
Speaker 3: energy together.
Speaker 2: That's just not here. So when this plays into being
Speaker 2: a much more crucial factor in the other movies, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like it doesn't feel like the way it
Speaker 2: should be. I guess the best way to put it
Speaker 2: is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that, And can you expand a
Speaker 1: little when you say that she clearly only has theme
Speaker 1: based dialogue.
Speaker 2: Like we'll get to the lines later, but like it's
Speaker 2: what you do.
Speaker 3: That defines you as a person, and like your father
Speaker 3: would be ashamed of you, And it's very much like
Speaker 3: the reminder of like the thematic idea like Bruce becoming
Speaker 3: a better person, because this is probably Bruce at is
Speaker 3: worst these next couple scenes in terms of being a
Speaker 3: human being, and it's just not There's not a lot
Speaker 3: of eloquence written with this. And even if the dialogue
Speaker 3: is not great, obviously, I just don't think she has
Speaker 3: much of the acting chops to make that scene better.
Speaker 2: Than it is to me. So you can probably maybe
Speaker 2: argue that maybe like Alfred or Lucius Fox do not
Speaker 2: have great dialogue, but those guys just do it so
Speaker 2: well you don't care, and maybe that finesse is what's
Speaker 2: missing here.
Speaker 3: But the fact that this is a crucial thing that
Speaker 3: affects this character in multiple future movies.
Speaker 2: It's just hard. It's a hard nuclear Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, as Brian Setzer said, a woman is a woman,
Speaker 1: and a man ain't nothing but a man cool.
Speaker 2: He knew it him boom.
Speaker 1: So Joe Chill is now a witness against Carmine Falconi,
Speaker 1: the mafia boss, and he is getting early parole. So
Speaker 1: Bruce shows up to the courthouse with a gun and
Speaker 1: they ask they ask, Bruce, do you want to have
Speaker 1: a witness impact statement or a victim impact statement to
Speaker 1: argue against him getting out on early parole? Because he
Speaker 1: did kill your parents, and Bruce says no, he doesn't
Speaker 1: even want to give a statement. He just leaves the
Speaker 1: courtroom and he has a gun. He's gonna kill Joe Chill. Sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I think this is again.
Speaker 3: Another thing so well done is like when the judge asked,
Speaker 3: there's a member of the Wayne family here, has he
Speaker 3: got anything to say?
Speaker 2: And all they do is hang on Joe Chill's face.
Speaker 2: They don't show Bruce and Richard Brake plays Joe Chill.
Speaker 2: He's been in a ton of movies.
Speaker 3: He he is always the villain Barbarian, a lot of
Speaker 3: rob zombie stuff.
Speaker 2: He's always great.
Speaker 1: He plays basically a Nazi and the Mandalorian.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly. He is always bad.
Speaker 3: But he does such a good job of like someone's
Speaker 3: eyes are burning in the back of my head, and
Speaker 3: I can tell because like his eyes are looking to
Speaker 3: the left, like he almost like he wants to turn around,
Speaker 3: or he doesn't want to turn around.
Speaker 2: He does such this is such a cool way to
Speaker 2: do the scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even a serial killer who has no remorse
Speaker 1: doesn't want to spend time being lectured by the victim's child.
Speaker 1: That's gonna make them feel really uncomfortable. So you can
Speaker 1: see his face and he's like, oh no. But then
Speaker 1: Bruce doesn't even say anything yes, so he his plan
Speaker 1: is he's gonna wait till Joe Chill comes out in
Speaker 1: the hallway and kill him.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then what happens before he has the chance to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: A woman comes out and says hey, Falcone says thanks
Speaker 3: or something like that, and then shoots and kills Joe
Speaker 3: Chill in the courtroom and again, really well done here.
Speaker 2: Rachel tries to get Bruce to leave and she like,
Speaker 2: come on, you don't need to see this. He's like, nope,
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. And just as a quick side note,
Speaker 1: in the comics, there's an alternate universe where Bruce was
Speaker 1: killed and Martha but Thomas survives and Thomas becomes Batman
Speaker 1: and he's like an alcoholic, murderous psychopath and I love him.
Speaker 1: But like, the my favorite moment that made me laugh
Speaker 1: so hard in the Flashboinn paradox is when the flash
Speaker 1: which comes from like the Bruce Wayne Batman universe, meets
Speaker 1: the Thomas Wayne Batman and they're in the back cave
Speaker 1: and he's like where's the bat computer? And he goes
Speaker 1: back computer and they show there's just like a wooden
Speaker 1: table covered in guns and bombs, Like he has no computer.
Speaker 2: That's just straight rage.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, no plan no planning. He's not a detective.
Speaker 1: He just kills people. But I believe Rachel says, revenge
Speaker 1: and justice is never the same. Revenge is about making
Speaker 1: yourself feel better. If you care about justice, you would
Speaker 1: look at this city. It is rotting. There are new
Speaker 1: Joe Chills created every day. What chance does Gotham have
Speaker 1: when good people do nothing? And Rachel also he basically
Speaker 1: tells her like I was gonna kill him, and she
Speaker 1: slaps him and says, your father would be ashamed of you.
Speaker 2: I really the wark. I really like this, I really do.
Speaker 1: I like this too. I think this is a good choice.
Speaker 1: And Bruce throws away the gun and then just goes
Speaker 1: straight up to meet Falconi in person, without a gun,
Speaker 1: without any intent of harming him, and uh Falcone to
Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson. The first thing is he says, is, oh,
Speaker 1: you came to thank me. Because he's like basically like
Speaker 1: sitting in a restaurant hanging out because he's a mafia boss.
Speaker 1: He's like Tony Soprano and he just killed he just
Speaker 1: had his goons killed Joe Chill, who killed Bruce's parents.
Speaker 1: So Falcone, he says, Oh, you came to thank me,
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of.
Speaker 3: Also the judge. I love that, the judge from the
Speaker 3: court cases sitting in the bar.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he says, listen here, kid, there are judges, counselmen.
Speaker 1: You can't do anything to me. You want me to
Speaker 1: hurt your lady friend, You want me to hurt your butler,
Speaker 1: and he says he says, basically, because Bruce is a
Speaker 1: rich kid. He says, you've never been desperate. You'll never
Speaker 1: understand it. You'll never understand the city that we live
Speaker 1: in because you've never been desperate, and you'll always fear
Speaker 1: what you don't understand. But I think that that's really unfair,
Speaker 1: because you know, like people shit all over Prince Harry.
Speaker 1: And I understand not comparing Prince Harry to Batman, and
Speaker 1: I understand Prince Harry seems pretty frustrating. But Bill Simmons
Speaker 1: was like talking about how much he hates Prince Harry
Speaker 1: and now he's a loser, and how he's like a
Speaker 1: spoil he's literally a spoiled prince. He was raised a prince,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I was watching that. It's like, is
Speaker 1: anyone jealous of Prince Harry? I'm not his his Like
Speaker 1: do you want to first of all, growing up as
Speaker 1: a royal seems fucked? What kind of relationships you have
Speaker 1: in life? Your uncle was Prince Andrew.
Speaker 3: You're yeah, you have no control over that, but still yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your mother was killed. So I was listening to
Speaker 1: Bill Simmons is like, you know, his mother was murdered right,
Speaker 1: Like she was killed by paparazzi when he was a
Speaker 1: little boy. His life has to be so fucked and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he has money, but I don't think Bruce has never
Speaker 1: felt desperate? Are you kidding me? Because he has money,
Speaker 1: you don't think that a person who witnessed their parents'
Speaker 1: murder has never felt desperate. Yeah, I mean he's fortunate
Speaker 1: that he is money. There there are kids that have
Speaker 1: witnessed their parents' murder and they have no money, and
Speaker 1: that they're worse off than Bruce. I'll give him that.
Speaker 3: But think of this like in real like, look think
Speaker 3: of Falcone Falcony in relation to Ducard, someone who's like
Speaker 3: I figured you out. I know what your deal is
Speaker 3: because I'm going through the prism of what I have
Speaker 3: and what I do and how I.
Speaker 2: See the world. So I've decided to put you in
Speaker 2: that way of thinking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, and he gets up. He basically gets
Speaker 1: up to leave, and Falcone says, Joe Chill told me
Speaker 1: that when he killed your parents, your dad begged for
Speaker 1: mercy like a dog. So hey, just a that's the
Speaker 1: kind of thing that like, I would want to pull
Speaker 1: out a knife and stab someone in the eye in
Speaker 1: that moment.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he didn't.
Speaker 1: That's just factually untrue. Like Bruce was there, Bruce would
Speaker 1: just happened.
Speaker 2: I remember this happening, I said, not how it went.
Speaker 1: Yes, like Bruce could literally say that, uh and uh
Speaker 1: and now and now cuts back to I believe Bruce
Speaker 1: and Ducard and he says, the first time I stole,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't survive, so I wouldn't starve. First time
Speaker 1: I stole, so I wouldn't starve. I lost many assumptions
Speaker 1: about the simple nature of right and wrong, because right
Speaker 1: and wrong is not simple a lot of the time.
Speaker 1: And uh. Then du Card gets him what I would
Speaker 1: call scarecrow high in their training, So why don't you
Speaker 1: explain scarecrow high in their training at this point.
Speaker 3: So there the flower that he had to find, the
Speaker 3: rare blue flower is being used as some kind of
Speaker 3: like hallucinogen to get you in touch with these feelings
Speaker 3: of fear, because the idea is to look past fear
Speaker 3: and then create it.
Speaker 2: And they get a little bit blurry. They have a
Speaker 2: very small dosa chere.
Speaker 3: So it's just the idea of like they're using these
Speaker 3: things to kind of like almost like kamikaze, make these
Speaker 3: guys a little bit less fearful.
Speaker 1: So I thought, this is a really cool moment. So
Speaker 1: he's high, and he's trying to defeat du Card, but
Speaker 1: there's like an army of ninjas, and Ducard is hiding
Speaker 1: amidst the army of ninjas, and he Bruce gets a
Speaker 1: cut on his shoulder, and then Bruce starts going around
Speaker 1: and cutting other guys shoulders so Bruce will be indistinguishable
Speaker 1: from them. And then Duke Card puts his his knife
Speaker 1: to the throat of a guy with a cut in
Speaker 1: his shoulder, knowing it's Bruce, and then Bruce appears behind
Speaker 1: him and defeats him. Says like no, I tricked you
Speaker 1: and I win. So he's fully graduated at this point
Speaker 1: the League of Shadows. He's ready to begin. He's done
Speaker 1: with school. And there's a local murderer who in the
Speaker 1: village was caught and Bruce is told by Ducard, you
Speaker 1: must kill you must execute this man. This is your
Speaker 1: final test and then we can move on to our
Speaker 1: greater mission. And Bruce says, no, I'm not gonna kill
Speaker 1: this guy. And Ducard says, compassion is a weakness your
Speaker 1: enemy will not share. Is this This is a very
Speaker 1: good philosophical debate between Ducard and Bruce. Bruce responds, you're right,
Speaker 1: that's why it's so important. It separates me from them.
Speaker 1: And then Duke Card says, this man is a murderer.
Speaker 1: Bruce says, who should be tried, and then Ducard says,
Speaker 1: by who corrupt bureaucrats Because that's a good point, like, okay,
Speaker 1: if the if the system is corrupt, you can't trust
Speaker 1: the system.
Speaker 2: That's what happened with Joe Chill right out in fourteen years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And Ducard explains Gotham's time has come, like
Speaker 1: Rome before it. It's beyond saving. It must be allowed
Speaker 1: to die.
Speaker 2: Oh well, this is this is rape talking here.
Speaker 1: Oh right, sorry, I forgot, so expect that.
Speaker 2: We're leaving out.
Speaker 3: So Rachel Cool is here, played by Ken Wantonabe, another
Speaker 3: person overcast from the last Samurai in other movies, and
Speaker 3: he is the one in charge of the League of Shadows,
Speaker 3: and he's saying like, nope, it's the time.
Speaker 2: This is what we've been doing for years.
Speaker 3: Is anything that's gotten too big or too overgrown, we're
Speaker 3: the ones who cut it down.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So I forgot. I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 1: So Raychelle goal is revealed. He's the leader of the
Speaker 1: League of Shadows, and it's Ken wanton Abe, who's a
Speaker 1: wonderful actor, and Ducard is like his right hand man
Speaker 1: number two. But it's finally revealed that this is rach
Speaker 1: and this this I wrote back when it looked back
Speaker 1: at you, when it looked back at us, you blinked,
Speaker 1: which is the line I talked about with al Man
Speaker 1: and the intro. And this is a reference to the
Speaker 1: Nietzsche dictum, he who fight with monsters should look to
Speaker 1: it that he himself does not become a monster. And
Speaker 1: when you gaze along into an Abyss. The Abyss also
Speaker 1: gazes into you. So I think that I say that
Speaker 1: the Superman's greatest superpower is being a good person. He
Speaker 1: is the power of a god, and he's not narcissistic
Speaker 1: or egotistical or cruel. He is a fair kind man
Speaker 1: because of Martha and Jonathan Kent. So I think Batman's
Speaker 1: superpower is that he has gazed into the Abyss, and
Speaker 1: the Abyss gazed back at him, and he did not blink.
Speaker 1: He would rather fight the entire League of Shadows over
Speaker 1: the dispute of the value of a murderer's life than blink.
Speaker 3: And then he banks on that after this whole thing happens,
Speaker 3: he still backs even for people he doesn't like, you know,
Speaker 3: who have become now enemies. When he flicks the whatever
Speaker 3: it is, the burning iron thing and starts the fire
Speaker 3: and then starts the whole League of Shadows battle, and
Speaker 3: then he chooses to save du Card on the cliff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like he's still This goes into the later in the
Speaker 3: movie too, but the idea that like people think he's
Speaker 3: going further and further down the hole, but he's still
Speaker 3: like has he's this is this new grip He's retained
Speaker 3: is like this whole view and how people react to it.
Speaker 3: I think it's so funny, but we'll guess. We'll get
Speaker 3: to it later. We should also say too that this scene,
Speaker 3: the fight with the League of Shadows, another scornography corner
Speaker 3: here is one of the many big themes from this movie.
Speaker 3: Music wise, that this becomes every trailer uses this music
Speaker 3: for the next decade plus. Really absolutely, this was using
Speaker 3: the V for Vendetta trailer.
Speaker 2: This used constantly after this.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you could just use other movie scores
Speaker 1: in a trailer but not in the actual movie itself.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a ton of times. That happens a lot.
Speaker 2: A lot of people use I've.
Speaker 1: Never really thought of that before, but that, yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes that makes total sense. And Rorshak as a character
Speaker 1: and Watchman, Alan Moore wrote him to be as if
Speaker 1: Batman was a real person, Like if Batman existed in
Speaker 1: real life, this is who he would be. And Rorshak
Speaker 1: is definitely I don't blame him, but he's definitely someone
Speaker 1: who blinked when the abyss stared back.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And this.
Speaker 1: Is the quincid central argument. Like someone like Frank Castle
Speaker 1: who just kills people, he's a vigilante like Batman who
Speaker 1: just kills people. It's how can you do this and
Speaker 1: still think humanity is worth saving? You know all the
Speaker 1: evil in the world and you are cynical, but you
Speaker 1: still have faith in humanity and you still have empathy
Speaker 1: that is Batman's superpower. And all these people, you know,
Speaker 1: do Card, Frank Castle, rorshak Elon Musk, they blinked and
Speaker 1: they're soft. So he's as you mentioned. He burns down
Speaker 1: the League of Shadows Temple dojo and saves du Card
Speaker 1: from falling off a cliff. He does a single arm
Speaker 1: bicep curl with Duke Card and I thought, Nope, physically impossible.
Speaker 1: Liam Neeson is the tall guy. He's got to be.
Speaker 1: He's got to be two hundred pounds minimum, two hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: He does a single arm two undred pounds bicep curl. Nope,
Speaker 1: would not happen. Then he takes a flight back to
Speaker 1: got him.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: So explain this conversation with Alfred.
Speaker 3: So Alfred picks him up and he's like, hey, I'm back,
Speaker 3: and he's like, I know I need to do because
Speaker 3: like Alfred is not so much questioning his return, but
Speaker 3: it's just like this sudden complete change in personality, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I need to continue my father's work, but
Speaker 3: in a different way. I need to become something more
Speaker 3: because as a person I can be destroyed, I can
Speaker 3: be discredited, I can be whatever, But as a symbol,
Speaker 3: I can't be broken, or as an idea, because I
Speaker 3: think that's one of the comments that do Card says true.
Speaker 2: It says an idea, you really can't be stopped.
Speaker 3: And Alfred is like, okay, but it's gonna be tough
Speaker 3: because you've been dead for seven years and he's like,
Speaker 3: you've had me legally claim dead.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, what do you want me to do.
Speaker 3: He's like, well, benefits you because you were the sole
Speaker 3: beneficiary of all of my all of like my finances.
Speaker 3: And he's like, yep, that's true. And he's just like, uh,
Speaker 3: He's like, if you want to take the rolls out,
Speaker 3: you can just fill it back up and you bring
Speaker 3: it back. And then I love I love this joke.
Speaker 3: I think this joke is genuinely great. It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'll have this protections in place for the people who
Speaker 3: helped me do this, because you know this could go bad,
Speaker 3: and then Alfred or I think Alfred says that, like,
Speaker 3: what are you gonna do about people around you? Because
Speaker 3: people will always go for the people in your life,
Speaker 3: they will never just get you. And He's like, oh,
Speaker 3: you think I should be more careful and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and Alfre's like, yeah, I actually was thinking of myself.
Speaker 3: I'm butchering this line, but like, I just love that
Speaker 3: joke of just like, yeah.
Speaker 1: So Bruce is saying a symbol is corruptible, is incorruptible
Speaker 1: and everlasting, and Alfred says, a symbol also protects everyone
Speaker 1: around you. They're not going after here you, Bruce, Wayne,
Speaker 1: They're going after a symbol. And then just being having
Speaker 1: such a heart on for Rachel, He's like, oh, you
Speaker 1: mean protect Rachel, and Alfred goes, no, I mean me,
Speaker 1: you dumbass.
Speaker 2: I actually think about myself. That's really funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean myself. Also introduced to in
Speaker 1: this moment, not on the plane, but like in a
Speaker 1: separate moment. Killian Murphy plays Doctor Crane, who is Scarecrow
Speaker 1: in the comics. Killian Murphy a favorite of Christopher Nolan,
Speaker 1: obviously a favorite of mine.
Speaker 3: One audition for Batman and got the doctor Crane roll
Speaker 3: after Yeah, and again overcast, but him at this time
Speaker 3: probably most famous in the US for.
Speaker 2: Twenty eight days.
Speaker 3: Later, yes, a few years before great casting. Love anytime
Speaker 3: he reappears in these movies. Love it every time. It's great.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And who was the guy? There's like three audition tapes
Speaker 1: you can watch and it's Christian Bale's audition as Batman,
Speaker 1: Killian Murphy's audition is Batman. And then who's the third guy?
Speaker 3: There's a guy who was did not become super famous.
Speaker 3: I think it was another British actor who played him.
Speaker 2: I think it's more good.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna say he was like a
Speaker 1: very handsome, sort of surface level actor. Ian Bailey. Ian Bailey, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love in these auditions because if you watch them,
Speaker 3: they only show footage of the actors and these are
Speaker 3: on YouTube. By the way, the voice off camera auditioning
Speaker 3: with them as Amy Adams, that's so crazy. Why she
Speaker 3: you think this is five or four probably or even before.
Speaker 3: She was not like a big name, and she said,
Speaker 3: like everyone said, like, it's kind of funny because you
Speaker 3: can tell it's her voice. And the casting director always
Speaker 3: liked her, So she was like, if I put her
Speaker 3: in the room, will she get more attention from people
Speaker 3: if she's there?
Speaker 2: Ah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. And she also she had an in with Setzer.
Speaker 2: They were engaged.
Speaker 1: Right, I want to see Amy.
Speaker 2: Amy looks like it's gonna hail Adison. Sound Rightoo.
Speaker 1: What are some early movies of him Killian Murphy? Yeah,
Speaker 1: twenty eight years later? Really nothing else? Cold Mountain, that's right.
Speaker 1: I recently Wait, we're thinking of the same movie, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: Cold Mountain. I recently watched Cold Mountain for the first time.
Speaker 1: I watched it on a plane randomly. Wow, loved it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you like it?
Speaker 2: No? I was sat in the others. I was not
Speaker 2: a big fan.
Speaker 1: No, Oh, I loved it. I thought, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: There's a horrifying battle in it. That's it's a true
Speaker 1: story called the Crater. I think it's that's what it's
Speaker 1: called the Battle of the Crater, where basically the Confederate
Speaker 1: Army I could be butchering this, but the Confederate Army
Speaker 1: was trying to set off this detonation and it ended
Speaker 1: up creating the land. So like they were all in
Speaker 1: the crater and then the Union Army was attacking into
Speaker 1: the crater. So the crater just literally became like a
Speaker 1: giant pool of blood and guts and dead bodies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they it's depicted this this is a real battle
Speaker 1: that happened during the Civil War, and it's depicted in
Speaker 1: that movie. And it's just like, absolutely horrifying. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to have served in the Civil War.
Speaker 2: Who knew seem a bit messy. Yeah, yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Seemed a little bit. If you want to make an omelet,
Speaker 1: you gotta break a few eggs, Ryan, uh so.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Bruce goes down to some tunnels and Wayne Manor
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, you know what, this could be
Speaker 1: a good spot for a big old back cave.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: He says that out loud, which wasn't my favorite choice.
Speaker 3: That'd be a great just total like improv. Let's go
Speaker 3: with that, Christian, let's do it. How was the set
Speaker 3: to the line? That's when they kept yep yep.
Speaker 1: And so he then he's like showing up at work
Speaker 1: and checking out Wayne Enterprises and Wayne Enterprise, Wayne Enterprises,
Speaker 1: Wayne Enterprises.
Speaker 2: I think it's what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, And so explain Morgan Freeman in this film.
Speaker 1: Another amazing actors in this movie, but explain his role
Speaker 1: and what happens here.
Speaker 2: So he plays Lucious Fox, who's.
Speaker 1: Actually this is so I already interrupted you Sorry, you're
Speaker 1: talking about comedy moments in this movie. His interactions with
Speaker 1: Lucia's are always really.
Speaker 2: Fun, great, always great.
Speaker 3: So this is in the R and D department because Bruce,
Speaker 3: as Tim mentioned earlier, is kind of like rough drafting
Speaker 3: what he's gonna do for his symbol process, and he
Speaker 3: goes down there because he's like, I need equipment to
Speaker 3: truly do this and tire this out. And I know,
Speaker 3: like if you know, Wayne has applied Sciences department. So
Speaker 3: Lucius is just down there in this endless cave if
Speaker 3: you will, or like abandoned warehouse.
Speaker 2: Looking place since abandoned.
Speaker 3: But and he's just down there, just kind of like
Speaker 3: by himself, monitoring all this gear and Bruce just asking
Speaker 3: about like specific items like what about this, do you
Speaker 3: have anything like bulletproof? Like I'm doing some splunking and
Speaker 3: cave diving and I need some really tough equipment. And
Speaker 3: he's like, are you expecting love, are you expecting any
Speaker 3: expecting any bullets down there?
Speaker 2: What did he say? It makes a coming like that.
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, He's like, are you expecting there to
Speaker 1: be knife attacks in this cave? Something like that?
Speaker 3: So he's just going down there, and then he's just like, hey,
Speaker 3: you mind if like we keep this off the cuff whatever,
Speaker 3: No pun intended there, And he's like, far, as long
Speaker 3: as I see it, mister Wayne, all this stuff is
Speaker 3: yours anyways, which I really like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that he says, this is all your
Speaker 1: stuff anyway. And Alfred explains, so if we order from
Speaker 1: China like ten thousand cowls and then without ears, and
Speaker 1: then we order from like Russia twenty thousand ears, but
Speaker 1: they don't know their ears, They're just gonna come separately,
Speaker 1: then we will have tons of spares and it's not
Speaker 1: as suspicious as a purchase. I always like this kind
Speaker 1: of explanation because I'm always thinking to myself, like, how
Speaker 1: like who services the elevator in the bat cave? Who
Speaker 1: makes sure the elevator doesn't break? Is it Batman? Does
Speaker 1: he know how to service elevators? Who built the steel platforms?
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean? Where does he get
Speaker 1: all this stuff without raising suspicion? So I like that
Speaker 1: it explains it.
Speaker 2: It also shows his.
Speaker 3: That he truly can't do this alone, like he just
Speaker 3: truly can't like with Lucius with Alfred, like he cannot
Speaker 3: at all accomplish this the way he needs to do
Speaker 3: it without people with other people involved, which I really
Speaker 3: like as well, because it seemed like other superheroes. Maybe
Speaker 3: it could be like more of a solo functioning group
Speaker 3: or solo functioning unit.
Speaker 2: But I love this whole Like.
Speaker 3: When they're just trying to draw the Collin stuff, I
Speaker 3: think this is again this unnecessary detail that other movies
Speaker 3: would not.
Speaker 2: Give a shit about.
Speaker 3: Maybe such a good job. And then he goes to
Speaker 3: a client and onother member of the party.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty funny that he says I need
Speaker 1: this for spelunking, and Lucius is like, you're obviously lying,
Speaker 1: and then it shows him actually spelunking in the back
Speaker 1: gave yeah. So well, there's there's a great line, but
Speaker 1: we'll get to it in a moment that Lucius has.
Speaker 1: But before that, it's shown Jim Gordon is on the
Speaker 1: the road working as a detective with his partner Flass,
Speaker 1: and Flast accepts a bribe and he says, you know, Jim,
Speaker 1: you should really take this bribe money because when you
Speaker 1: don't take it, it makes us think you're a rat.
Speaker 1: And then Jim has a great line he says, and
Speaker 1: the town as corrupt as this, who would I rat to?
Speaker 2: I do like that. He's like, I'm no rat.
Speaker 3: He does still like hold that of like that, there's
Speaker 3: some this this accountability. Weirdly, I also Mark Boone Jr.
Speaker 3: Any movie he's in, You're just like, okay, here we.
Speaker 1: Go, Sons of Anarchy, Yes, Quick Quick in the Dead?
Speaker 2: Is he in that? I haven't? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Does he play the prisoner scarm? I thinking of somebody else?
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, now I.
Speaker 1: Can I can flact check that? But that's a great point.
Speaker 1: And then Flash is genuinely like, yeah, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a good point. Who are you gonna rat to? But yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a difference between being between having a code and
Speaker 1: being a rat having a code and not scars nice
Speaker 1: great yet.
Speaker 3: Very good get I also like this just view of Gordon.
Speaker 3: They kind of start showing more and more of Gordon
Speaker 3: here at this level, not being really like the kind
Speaker 3: of like Commissioner Gordon where you used to which at
Speaker 3: the time was much more like an older figure who
Speaker 3: already was in charge.
Speaker 2: And then Gordon goes into his office. It's dark in there.
Speaker 3: Bruce comes behind him and he's just like asking him,
Speaker 3: like what would it take to take down Falcony And
Speaker 3: he's just like, you would need to get X, Y
Speaker 3: and Z and he's like okay, and then something about
Speaker 3: Judge Hayden too as well, you would need something on
Speaker 3: Judge Hayden. And I like this little reveal that Gordon
Speaker 3: thinks it's a on and it's a stapler.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna say that, because he puts a gun
Speaker 1: to the back of his head and says, don't move.
Speaker 1: That's a Bruce says, And You're like, wow, Rusus using
Speaker 1: a gun, it's actually a stapleer he took. He took
Speaker 1: from the office.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And I just love like that whole thing. And he's
Speaker 3: like okay, he's like thank you. It's like you're a
Speaker 3: good cop. And he just walks away and he's like
Speaker 3: are you working?
Speaker 2: What does he say? Uh, you're working alone? Are you
Speaker 2: doing this alone?
Speaker 3: He's to make some comment of that type, and then
Speaker 3: Bruce is like hour two yeah, and now or two
Speaker 3: is my favorite gift of all time, hands down.
Speaker 1: Now we're two and he puts his gun on his leg.
Speaker 1: But this is an important moment if you if you
Speaker 1: know anything about Batman, Gordon and Batman have these have
Speaker 1: had dozens, probably hundreds of interactions where they're in the
Speaker 1: middle of a conversation and then Gordon turns and Batman
Speaker 1: has disappeared without giving any hint. Yes, but because this
Speaker 1: is early early Bruce where he's not even Batman yet,
Speaker 1: he's not in he's not wearing the bat costume, he's
Speaker 1: just wearing like a ski mask, he isn't able to
Speaker 1: disappear because he's not good enough yet. So Gordon actually
Speaker 1: follows him to the rooftop and says freeze, and Bruce
Speaker 1: just jumps off of the building and like almost.
Speaker 2: Dies eat ships.
Speaker 1: And then he then it cuts to him talking to
Speaker 1: Lucius and he goes, do you have anything I plan
Speaker 1: on a bass jumping and Lucius is He's like, listen, Lucious,
Speaker 1: if you feel uncomfortable with this, and then Luke, this
Speaker 1: is a fucking great line by Lucius. This is what
Speaker 1: I was referencing earlier. He says, mister Wayne, if you
Speaker 1: don't tell me what you're doing when I'm asked about it,
Speaker 1: I don't have to lie. And then Bruce says, what's
Speaker 1: that and points to essentially like a racing tank. I
Speaker 1: don't know how you would even describe it.
Speaker 2: The tumblr the tumblr here we go folks.
Speaker 3: Interesting enough in the making of this movie that batmobile
Speaker 3: was not in this movie. Wow, And that was not
Speaker 3: their plant out of Batmobile yet they thought it was
Speaker 3: just too soon. And the guys who were the head
Speaker 3: of Warner Brothers at the time were on this documentary
Speaker 3: and they're like, Nolan.
Speaker 2: Nolan was just like, I know, this is a major
Speaker 2: studio movie.
Speaker 3: You guys are all about, you know, your marketing and merchandise, Like,
Speaker 3: is there anything you need me to do in this movie?
Speaker 3: And the guy was like, where do you see the
Speaker 3: Batmobile in this movie? And he's like, I don't. It's like,
Speaker 3: I think it's too early. They're like, well, we really
Speaker 3: like it if you had a Batmobile in it, And
Speaker 3: then that's where they got the whole idea for like
Speaker 3: it was a it was a bridge line pulling vehicle
Speaker 3: that could jump like cliffs and gaps, but the idea
Speaker 3: is the bridge never worked, but the vehicle, as Lucia says,
Speaker 3: works incredibly fine.
Speaker 2: This thing is the best sound ever.
Speaker 3: Just sounds incredible, looks insane.
Speaker 2: Oh what a great invention this is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really, it really is. And up until this point,
Speaker 1: the Batmobile has always been depicted as like a sports car.
Speaker 1: This is a really fast, cool car that's bulletproof. But
Speaker 1: in the Dark Knight Returns, which was written in the eighties,
Speaker 1: he essentially is driving like a tank and so this
Speaker 1: is much it's like a kind of a hybrid of both.
Speaker 1: But it's much closer to the Dark Knight Returns tank
Speaker 1: car than it would be to say, the Batmobile and
Speaker 1: the Michael Keaton Batman.
Speaker 3: It's very the theme that the whole design is the
Speaker 3: ex for this whole movie is truly just very like functional,
Speaker 3: like it he needs this to work in a city.
Speaker 3: This can work, This can break through barriers and like
Speaker 3: the roads and stuff like that. The police can't mess
Speaker 3: with this thing. It is very, very functional in terms
Speaker 3: of its design. Like the Burton Batmobile is fucking sick.
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, it's incredible, but like it just
Speaker 3: doesn't work here. It's just not the point. You know,
Speaker 3: it's meant to be like, it's not flashy, you know.
Speaker 1: Exactly, So he drives us around the tumbler and asks
Speaker 1: Lucius one question, there you go. Does it come in black?
Speaker 1: Does it come in black? He's discussing with Alfred. He's
Speaker 1: basically like sharpening batter rings. And Alfred says, why bats
Speaker 1: messed away? And he says, bats frightened me. And it's
Speaker 1: time for my enemies to share in my dread. And
Speaker 1: with that, Bruce is now fully going to become Batman
Speaker 1: in the batsuit with the cowl and ears and the
Speaker 1: cape and the utility belt for the first time. We
Speaker 1: will start that in part two. That's how partool will begin,
Speaker 1: where actually not part two will begin, Batman begins.
Speaker 2: This is why you get the big bucks. This is
Speaker 2: why this is
Speaker 1: Why dumping and dump m I know something