1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,319
Speaker 1: What's Up. Welcome to another episode of the Crime Page

2
00:00:03,319 --> 00:00:06,919
A Bond and He Doesn't podcast. I have not. I

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:12,039
don't think I've ever put an NSFW warning on a

4
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,640
podcast before, but the one that you're about to listen

5
00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:17,960
to and putting it on, it's not suitable for listening

6
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,519
to if you got kids in the car or anything else, like,

7
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,000
you might catch yourself having to explain to them what

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,480
a glory hole is. Uh, you know we talk about

9
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,119
it's this last podcast I was in North Carolina. We

10
00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:35,679
were I was hanging out with my friends Lily Bird

11
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,399
and Scott Ward, who is one of the best botanists,

12
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:41,960
probably one of the best. Bid it just like a

13
00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:44,520
dude who really knows how to read a landscape and

14
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,159
talk about the ecosystem and talk about the fire dependence

15
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,679
of North Carolina, which it still blows my mind how

16
00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:52,560
many people that live on the East Coast are completely

17
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:57,159
in the dark about how common fire was historically in

18
00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,000
the East Coast and the fact that they're so in

19
00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:01,439
the dark about it, why the tick problem is so

20
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,400
bad and why so much of the woods look like shit,

21
00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:08,079
because all that knowledge has just been lost in terms

22
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,719
of how to take care of that landscape where you

23
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,159
get the highest rainfall in the United States. It'side from

24
00:01:13,159 --> 00:01:16,760
the Pacific Northwest, and it is just I mean, it's

25
00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:19,079
like the Gulf States too. The Gulf States get a

26
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,359
lot of rainfall, but the Eastern seaboard fifty to sixty

27
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,319
inches a year in most places, very high rainfall, lots

28
00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:28,840
of vegetative growth every year, more than can decompose, and

29
00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:30,560
so it needs to be burned off. It's the same

30
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,239
thing they were doing in Midwest prairies, et cetera. Anyway,

31
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,040
I was hanging out with both of them, and we

32
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,280
were just I have not I have not laughed so much.

33
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,319
I mean, we just the Turets was off the hook.

34
00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:50,000
We were laughing our asses off, talking about filthy shit,

35
00:01:50,239 --> 00:01:53,959
just being absurd and ridiculous, and then interspersing that with

36
00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:59,200
conversation about things like eco tones, fire intervals, burn regimens,

37
00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:04,040
with tons of carnivorous plant diversity. We saw. We saw

38
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:12,599
saracenia's utricularias, uh uh Dianaea of course, dynam usipola, the

39
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,439
venus fly trap, pinguiculas, et cetera, and all in you know,

40
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,400
sand hills and then uh, savannahs. It was all sand

41
00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:24,599
hills and Savannah Botany, and it was it was incredible.

42
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,520
It was a great week. It was such a nice week.

43
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,639
And then I came back. I got poison oak. I

44
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,080
got Toxicodendron pubescans, which is the fuzzy poison oak that

45
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,479
you get on the sand hills. I've seen it in

46
00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:37,639
Florida too, And now so I'm nursing that all over

47
00:02:37,719 --> 00:02:39,479
my body and it feels terrible, but you know what,

48
00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:42,360
it feels so good when you put the when you

49
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,879
put the hot water on it. So anyway, now I

50
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,560
just gotta hope I don't get a staff infection. I

51
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,199
got a staph infection like the week two weeks before

52
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,520
because I knocked myself with doxacycling. So I didn't get

53
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,360
typhus from the ticks and the fleas that I got

54
00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,599
after killing that feral pig and then through the brush

55
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,360
and then that doxa cycling probably annihilated my skin flora,

56
00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:09,919
my beneficial skin flora. Like what is it? There's what's

57
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,360
what's the species? A Staphylococcus epidermaditis I think is one

58
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,680
of them. Epi epidermitis already shade pronounced it. It's a

59
00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:21,199
beneficial bacteria that's on your skin that kind of keeps

60
00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:23,080
the staff away. And then I was going to the

61
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,159
gym because it was it's too hot in South Texas

62
00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:28,479
to go outside per exercise anymore, and so I knocked

63
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,759
out the good flora and then inundated myself all the

64
00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:33,919
nasty shit you get at gym's. So it's really important

65
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,439
again when you go to the gym. You know, used

66
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,719
to that wiping stuff they got, you know, for the

67
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,319
you know, the disinfectants, and always just wash as soon

68
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,960
as you can. There was one day I was I

69
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,599
went through the gym and then I was going out

70
00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:48,520
the plant trees. I was like, I'm gonna get nasty again.

71
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,879
I'm not going to take a shower. I'll wait an hour,

72
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,000
and I went out and then I just I was

73
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,560
moving mulch and my jeans were just soaked and with sweat.

74
00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:02,039
It was just nasty. It was just like total swamp feeling.

75
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,599
And then yet I got the staff no shit. So anyway,

76
00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:09,479
so the staph and then now poison ivy and now

77
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,240
the poison ivy is finally starting to go down or

78
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,400
poison oak rather toxico to ender in pew business. So

79
00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:16,319
Cola what it is. But we I had a great time.

80
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,720
The whole week was just incredible. I got I got

81
00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:24,199
sent out there to do a presentation at the Carnivorous

82
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,160
Plant Conference, which was great. Everybody I met out there

83
00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:31,199
was great, really cool, really sweet people, lovable nerds, just

84
00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:33,800
a fucking good time. Saw some people hadn't seen in

85
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,519
a while, like my friend, you know, my buddy Drew

86
00:04:36,519 --> 00:04:41,480
who runs Carnivoro and then Damon who runs California Carnivores

87
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,480
in Northern California. And we just had a nice day.

88
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,360
Was just a great time. And then I presented on

89
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,360
I did what two presentations, one one day on Western

90
00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:53,720
Hemisphere carnivores and then the other on Eastern Hemisphere carnival carnivores.

91
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,680
Showed a bunch of cool plants Brazil, South Africa, Western Australia,

92
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,480
et cetera. It was a great time. Pinguicula's you know,

93
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,920
for the the all the Mexican peinguiculas, penguicular gypsicola, all

94
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,079
these carnivorous plants. It's a great time. And then Monday, Tuesday,

95
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,600
and Wednesday we just went out to a bunch of

96
00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:15,120
different sites, camped out one night and god, the Sandhills,

97
00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:18,240
I just I love. It's one of my favorite habitats.

98
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,959
But it's so easy for me to see, you know,

99
00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:23,319
because you're driving by it all the time. And you'll

100
00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:25,720
hear this in the podcast in between, you know, the

101
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,120
rants about the doctor Phil gloryhole and sucking and fucking.

102
00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:32,519
I told you, I told you it was. You know,

103
00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:35,000
we're not We're five minutes into the podcast, all right,

104
00:05:35,079 --> 00:05:36,720
you should have should have turned it off if you

105
00:05:36,759 --> 00:05:39,399
had kids in a car. But you know, we're I

106
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,199
told you it was gonna be like this. It's just

107
00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:44,480
fucking we were just laughing our asses off, just saying

108
00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:49,680
absurd crash shit, just offensive shit, just fucking just the

109
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,480
just the barrel of laughs over there. And so uh yeah, man,

110
00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:56,759
it was just it was It was a really fun time.

111
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,920
But yeah, the sand Hills are one of my favorite habitats.

112
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,680
And savannahs too, And of course they're all fire dependent.

113
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,839
They're all fired dependent when you drive, and this is

114
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,600
what I was saying. When you're driving on you know,

115
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,959
roads and freeways, you look at the woods and they're

116
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,480
all the shitty woods. They're just dense inundated half this

117
00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:19,600
you know, probably a quarter invasive species. Everything's just smothered,

118
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,839
fire suppressed for years and so, and probably just laden

119
00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:26,959
with ticks. I mean, it just just a shit show, man.

120
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,079
It's it's a fucking ecological shit show. And it drives

121
00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:31,560
me nuts. How many people that live on the East

122
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,120
Coast see that and just normalized They think that's the

123
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,639
woods are just supposed to be dense and shitty and

124
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,480
impenetrable and filled with ticks. That's not the way it

125
00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:42,759
was for a long time. Okay, if you were think

126
00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:45,879
of like how long were indigenous people living in the

127
00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,800
Americas before Whitey came, right like fifteen twenty thousand years,

128
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,199
thirty thousand years in some places, do you think any

129
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,680
human being that, knowing what we love as a species,

130
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,560
we like savannahs and open places, do you think any

131
00:06:57,639 --> 00:07:00,319
human being would tolerate the shitty woods. No, they were

132
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000
burning them. And before that there was lightning strikes and

133
00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:05,439
the vege would pile up and maybe you'd get a

134
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,399
dry spell or a drought or something, and then you

135
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,120
get a thunderstorm. Lots of thunderstorms out there, and they

136
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,759
would light these woods up. You also had herbivores, large mammals,

137
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,040
you know, prior to human occupation in North America coming

138
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,560
in doing you know, heavy heavy veg removal, because that's

139
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,240
the thing. You get so much rain, the vege grows

140
00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:27,560
so quick you need a way to not get back

141
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,879
to control for it. Otherwise it just builds up too quick,

142
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,240
faster than it could decompose. And so anyway, it just

143
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,240
it blows my mind because so much of the woods

144
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,040
out there look like shit. And I put a post

145
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,240
up about that, and of course there was you know,

146
00:07:39,279 --> 00:07:41,600
all these people that just took it as like a

147
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,800
attack on their region, right, like they're fucking pride is

148
00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:49,360
so stupid and and didn't listen to the subject matter

149
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,319
or what it was about, and also don't have any

150
00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:54,079
ecological education about their own areas, and they just got upset.

151
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,000
So again, fire fire, fire man. There's so many of these,

152
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,839
you know, there's different intervals. Savannah's sand hills two to

153
00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:06,240
five year intervals, right, it opens it up. You know,

154
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:09,639
some of the more music forests seven to fifteen year intervals.

155
00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:12,560
And this is you know, you this can be studied

156
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,680
in soil records. There's records of this. You know, this

157
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,279
isn't just a bunch of shit people made up in

158
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,240
last fifty years. But you know, people confirmation bias people,

159
00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:25,399
some people still don't want to believe it. So but yeah,

160
00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:28,519
we went to some monodknock manad knock how do you

161
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,759
pronounce it, I don't know, manadnock lookout something like that.

162
00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,720
That was a great h that was a great preserve

163
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,600
to visit, nice open forests. And then there was the

164
00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:42,399
one that with the shitty woods that was near Kernersville somewhere,

165
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,240
which just you know, you go in and it's just

166
00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:47,000
it looks like shit. I mean, the woods look like shit.

167
00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:50,399
They're inundated, they're impenetrable. I think it's lob lolly pine,

168
00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:52,639
which wasn't. It's native to the region, but it wasn't

169
00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:54,320
from that area. It's like a lumber tree. It's like

170
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,879
a similar situation with Pinus radiata in California, you know,

171
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:05,960
like uh, Monterey pine. Right. So anyway, yeah, so it

172
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,559
was you know that that those woods near Kernersville were

173
00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,480
just fucking bleak. I will say in all the habitats

174
00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:15,840
we went to, because we were just going to ones

175
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,240
where there had been recent burns and Scott knew all

176
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,440
these places. We didn't get a single tick. You know. Meanwhile,

177
00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:27,679
Scott's girlfriend, who was Melanie, Who's who's She's working as

178
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,559
a consultant through survey. She's a botanist too. She was

179
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,879
out by the coast and habitats that hadn't burned for

180
00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:36,759
a while, and she told us horror stories. At that

181
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,600
same time period we are, she was out near the

182
00:09:38,639 --> 00:09:41,799
coast and she told us horror stories about going through

183
00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:46,000
these fire suppressed habitats and just finding you know, dozens

184
00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:48,919
of ticks crawling on her. You could see him crawling

185
00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:51,320
on the floor. It's disgusting, man, it's I mean, that

186
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,279
alone was probably one of the main reasons why human

187
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,360
beings have been lighting these areas on fire, and why

188
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,440
all these plants like pine long leaf pines show evidence

189
00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:05,120
of evolving with fire, being adapted to fires, surviving low

190
00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:07,879
intensity fires, right, not to mention, you get the low

191
00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:12,120
intensity fires, you prevent the catastrophic high intensity fires like

192
00:10:12,159 --> 00:10:14,840
you get in California because you're getting rid of all

193
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,320
the fuel you're burning it. So, you know, it's really

194
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,840
good to see. And again I'm probably I'm personally I'm

195
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,159
probably a little too pro fire. Maybe I don't know,

196
00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:30,240
but you know, everything's got to be done, you know,

197
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,320
based on study and observation and paying attention to what

198
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,519
you're doing, thinking about what you're doing, you know, listening

199
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,960
the feedback on what you're doing with these fire regimes.

200
00:10:40,039 --> 00:10:42,440
I think a lot of the areas we were visiting

201
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,000
they were burning in February, like late winter, right before spring.

202
00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:51,600
But there's different opinions on that, and I'm not an

203
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,240
expert on it. I just know when I go to

204
00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:56,240
a habitat that's recently burned, I don't have to worry

205
00:10:56,279 --> 00:10:57,759
about ticks, and it looks a hell of a lot

206
00:10:57,799 --> 00:11:02,679
cleaner and healthier. And the quote shitty woods trademark, you know,

207
00:11:02,799 --> 00:11:04,759
like you see in much of the East Coast, like

208
00:11:04,799 --> 00:11:06,559
you see on the sides of the highway, where it's

209
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,879
just this impenetrable wall of very small diameter understory brush

210
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,879
you got, you know, your trees, and then the understory

211
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,799
is just these these small diameter one two inch three

212
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,080
inch diameter shrubs and smaller trees just you know, you

213
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,919
got it. You gotta thin that stuff out and just

214
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,320
discovered in ticks too, I mean ticks everywhere there's you know,

215
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,480
there's too many theory, there's not there's not enough enough fire,

216
00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:38,559
et cetera. So the fires burn the ticks and they

217
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,720
burn the duff that they need to survive. Again, look

218
00:11:40,759 --> 00:11:43,840
at the Learn your Land YouTube channel. Let's learn your

219
00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,240
Land Adam Harreton. He was on his podcast a few

220
00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:49,200
months ago and we talk about all that, and he

221
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,200
did a great video on on how fire controls ticks. Anyway,

222
00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:57,320
let's go over a North Carolina ecoregions. Western part of

223
00:11:57,399 --> 00:12:00,000
the state. You've got the mountains, of course, the Appalachian Mountains.

224
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,279
Central part of the state. You've got the Piedmont, which

225
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,360
is higher elevation than the coastal Plain, but lower elevation

226
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,320
than the mountains. It's like basically the foothills. You've got

227
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,799
the sand hills, which are east of the Piedmont, kind

228
00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:16,200
of like in the southeast portion of the state. And

229
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,720
then you've got the coastal plain, which is just flat

230
00:12:19,919 --> 00:12:25,519
and low elevation ten fifteen feet above sea level, et cetera.

231
00:12:25,799 --> 00:12:27,960
And so you get a lot of the good carnivorous

232
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,679
plants and long leaf pine savannahs, et cetera, and a

233
00:12:30,759 --> 00:12:33,120
lot of plants that you'll also see in northern Florida,

234
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,080
which again is also heavily fire dependent. All right, Lake

235
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,080
whales Ridge. When I was down there, all that stuff

236
00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:41,720
was fire dependent. We talk about some of that too.

237
00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:43,960
Our friends down there who live in Lake wales Ridge

238
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,960
who are like pyro ecologists. They fucking love fire. They

239
00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:52,240
understand the land. They see how healthy it comes back

240
00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,799
after they burn it. Right, So you know, but like

241
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,799
if you again, if you go it's all nuanced. If

242
00:12:58,799 --> 00:13:01,000
you go to woods that have been burned in thirty years,

243
00:13:01,039 --> 00:13:02,519
you can't just go light them up. You got to

244
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,279
thin it first because you will get those catastrophic fires.

245
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,399
So anyways, you got mountains, Piedmont, sand Hills, Coastal Plain.

246
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,559
The sand hills again were one of my favorite, so

247
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,360
much cool shit. There lots of hairy plants growing on

248
00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:18,559
the sand. That sand doesn't hold water and it doesn't

249
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,320
hold nutrients, so stuff gets kind of dwarfed, Stuff evolves

250
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,960
hair on it. We saw asclepius and plexicolists. Toxicodendron pubescans.

251
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,720
That's basically a poison oak that grows on sand, just

252
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,879
like our plants that grow on sand. In the South

253
00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,200
Texas sandsheet right, so fast training, but there's generally water

254
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,320
at depth and everything, you know, builds a like a

255
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,080
sturdy taproot like kind of swollen to store carbohydrates and

256
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,120
also goes quite deep. And I've noticed the plants that

257
00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:52,759
grow on a sand in South Texas need a little

258
00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:54,679
bit more water than the plants that grow in the

259
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,320
thorn scrub because again, there's probably water at depth. It's

260
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,600
probably moist, you know, two or three feet below all

261
00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:04,919
that sand. Uh, it just drains really quick. So again

262
00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:07,720
that's why you like all these sand endemic plants that

263
00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:12,000
you'll find, including Prunus Texana. You'll they'll be six inches

264
00:14:12,039 --> 00:14:13,799
tall and they'll have like a three or four foot

265
00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:17,159
deep tap room. All right, same thing Miskeait and ebany do.

266
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,960
But those aren't. Those are just leggings. They don't they're

267
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,759
not sand indemics. Anyway, this is definitely and not safe

268
00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:26,519
for work podcasts. Don't listen to it with kids in

269
00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:29,279
the car. It's gonna it's gonna be uncomfortable. We're talking

270
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,919
all kinds of crazy shit. It's also fucking hilarious, I think,

271
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,840
so if you've got a sense of toilet humor. If not,

272
00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:36,879
you shouldn't even be listening to this fucking podcast. I

273
00:14:36,879 --> 00:14:39,039
don't know what you're doing listening to me? Right, You

274
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,440
get some squares that wander in the room sometimes like

275
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,919
an AA meeting. Right. You get some fucking stiffs that

276
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,440
wander in a room. They're not actually drunks or addicts.

277
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:49,279
They wander in the fucking room. They don't know what

278
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:52,360
they're what to expect. They start getting upset about people

279
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:55,240
talking some real shit or where whatever. You know, I

280
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,600
don't want to save them the trouble, save me the trouble.

281
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,159
I don't want to hear their whining about it. You

282
00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:01,759
still get people that you know, wander in sometimes and

283
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:07,120
he curses, soboch, sobach curs, why is it? Why? Why

284
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,639
is he talking about doctor Fell and the gloryhoh shit,

285
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,759
the fuck up. Get out of here. You're fucking square

286
00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:14,840
and doesn't need to. We got programs for you, right,

287
00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:17,440
there's programs that enough for you. This is for people

288
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,919
that got a sense of humor and realize, and it

289
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,080
may be a little bit of nihilism, and realize, you know,

290
00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:24,240
the whole game is rigged in a fucking Ponzi scheme,

291
00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:25,679
and we're on a sinking ship and they want to

292
00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:29,240
laugh on the way down. Anyway, Enjoy this about an

293
00:15:29,279 --> 00:15:31,799
hour and a half. I think maybe a little bit longer.

294
00:15:32,519 --> 00:15:36,960
I'm going on tour tomorrow. I'm leaving and we'll be

295
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,039
doing uh be doing a book signing Alpine, Texas this Wednesday.

296
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,360
What is it, the twenty seventh of May. Then we're

297
00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:45,559
going I don't know. The tour dates are on the

298
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:52,039
crime Pace website. Tucson, Phoenix, San Diego, Los Angeles. Uh

299
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,000
And we might try to book a last CRUs show,

300
00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:55,919
but probably not. It is a short tour. It should

301
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:57,759
be fun anyway. That's all I got to day. Go

302
00:15:57,799 --> 00:16:00,639
fuck your up by what it's like.

303
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna show you the part in section.

304
00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:06,559
Speaker 1: Lets you get through the chicken, you know, I mean outside,

305
00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:11,799
they've got nice shock liberal barriers. So they just started

306
00:16:11,879 --> 00:16:14,399
tagging each other and applause come out. You know, I've

307
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,480
seen a couple of nice things in that room before.

308
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,960
He had a bunch of hippies plumb on each other.

309
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,679
Speaker 2: To become the SHOGHI we're fighting to get the other chiefs.

310
00:16:23,919 --> 00:16:26,639
Speaker 1: Ninety for eighties. They're pouting, go bad, but they're not bad.

311
00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:32,759
Welcome to the Crime pays, but Boden, he doesn't podcast.

312
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,639
I'm here with my friend Lily Bird, and we're driving

313
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,440
to beautiful Kernersville, North Carolina, en route to the notorious

314
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:47,919
doctor Phil Gloryhole. Doctor Phil. He has the soothing voice today,

315
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,679
calm Southern father, but he's actually a filthy fuck that

316
00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:57,240
loves to suck. Fuck. It loves to suck and fuck.

317
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,159
I sucked and fucked my way along the South Texas

318
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,759
coastal birding trill. That's a good way to get the

319
00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:07,799
advertisers canceled by saying such filth in the first forty

320
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,440
seconds of the podcast. I just landed. Lily picked me up.

321
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:14,640
We're driving to the I'm getting paid to speak at

322
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,880
the Carnivorous Plant Conference tomorrow. I don't know why they're

323
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,039
having me. Hopefully this podcast will cut. This podcast will

324
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:23,279
come out after the conference is over, so they can't.

325
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,960
You know, I have second thoughts. But anyway, we're just

326
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:29,440
we're just driving. You know, It's it's Friday night at

327
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,960
seven pm, and we're driving through past all these woods

328
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,400
that I'm sure I fill with invasive species and you know,

329
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:39,200
two hundred years of fire supperation. Every time I see

330
00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:41,519
these these forests out here, I just want to light

331
00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:43,440
them on fire because I'm sure they're full of ticks

332
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,160
and invasives. That's which you think, that's right, right?

333
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 3: Probably, yeah, definitely. I mean there's there is probably a

334
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,880
little more intact than Florida than the woods in Florida,

335
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,640
but near the cities, I'm sure it's very bad.

336
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 1: Do you think Do you think doctor Phil loves to

337
00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,599
suck and fuck?

338
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 2: He does?

339
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: Right with that mustache. It's a dead giveaway a waffle

340
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:11,079
house anyway. Yeah. So, uh, I'm gonna go giving us

341
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,680
presentation tomorrow. You know, presentation is gonna be I'm showing

342
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,319
a lot doing Western Hemisphere carnivores. It should be pretty good.

343
00:18:17,319 --> 00:18:19,920
But then i'd be showing a lot of habitat shots

344
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,119
and non carnivorous plants too, which maybe it'll you know,

345
00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:25,920
at Carnacon. Some of these guys, I don't know, you know,

346
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,079
I don't know how on the spectrum they are if

347
00:18:28,079 --> 00:18:31,440
they're gonna be super demanding that it's all carnivorous plants.

348
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,039
But I like showing the habitat in this sympatrick species

349
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:40,680
as well. I'm showing pendlicular casabijuana from Dominican Republic cloud forest.

350
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:47,000
It's an epiphytic carnivore. I'm showing phil Coxie orhizomatosa from

351
00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:51,960
the openings in the in the Katinga, the tropical drive

352
00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:55,680
forest in Brazil where it grows in these sandy openings.

353
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,720
But let's talk about ticks, because we were just you know,

354
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,119
at the one number. I think of Eastern Seaboard, which

355
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,759
of course gets higher rainfall than most anywhere else in

356
00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:08,880
the United States except for the Pacific Northwest. I can't

357
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,759
help but think about the lush vegetative growth and how

358
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:14,440
the fire at Thurn intervals were roughly what do you think,

359
00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:15,680
lily out here three years?

360
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 3: No, I mean some of the areas maybe you know,

361
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,720
five or so, but I don't know the North Carolina

362
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:30,680
habitat well enough. I would say that their pines areas

363
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:34,000
is probably like three to five years. But the majority

364
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,960
of these hardwood areas they did not burn frequently.

365
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,039
Speaker 1: Really did burn, but they were light and shit up.

366
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,319
I'm sure people were lighting shit up and yeah, pretty

367
00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:41,839
it did burn.

368
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 3: And there probably is a lot more of hardwood expansion

369
00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:47,279
due to fire.

370
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:50,759
Speaker 1: Suppression, right, definitely. But there's been that video. I'm sure

371
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:53,200
you've seen it. There was a video on social media

372
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,680
going out the last few days, some kids in southern

373
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,799
Illinois showing all the takes they picked up in like

374
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,960
a twenty minute into the river. Yet I made the

375
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:05,680
mistake of commenting on it, and then I watched people

376
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:09,000
argue in the posts the replies to my comment about

377
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,759
how this is all actually a conspiracy to drop boxes

378
00:20:13,839 --> 00:20:17,240
of ticks lone star ticks infected with alpha gel. The

379
00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:22,440
alpha gel roteine in it that causes the red meat allergy, which.

380
00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 3: Is a short term meat allergy. It only lasts for

381
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:27,440
like three to five years, and then you are able

382
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:28,319
to eat meating it.

383
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,079
Speaker 1: That's nice, though. In Cape Cod they're getting fucked with

384
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,839
that thing. It's like they got all these vegans in Florida.

385
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,559
You get all these richies up there, you know, you

386
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:38,519
get all these you know, all these fancy lads. You've

387
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:40,720
got to be obligatory vegans. Now they can't have their

388
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:43,559
steaks and ship. It's not a bad idea. I think

389
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:45,559
it's kind of funny. It gives me a chuckle. It's

390
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:47,799
good for their cholesterol too, it's gonna actually maybe it'll

391
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:48,559
prolong their life.

392
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,799
Speaker 3: Still eat poultry and like, yeah, you can.

393
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: Still pull your pork if you like the second fuck

394
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,240
at the doctor fil I don't think.

395
00:20:57,839 --> 00:20:59,319
Speaker 3: I don't think you can eat an You can't.

396
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: I just saw an opportunity to make a crew remarket.

397
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,279
I wanted to the doctor. Phil Glorio, located in beautiful Curnersville,

398
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:12,000
North Carolina, flew into Raleigh. Durham got fucked in Kernersville. Okay,

399
00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:15,000
well hold on, but uh we were talking about this though,

400
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,359
you know, the whole, the whole, you know, honestly, with

401
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,359
this conspiracy theory stuff, the simulation has been so fucked

402
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,079
up lately, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually

403
00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:24,960
a little bit of truth to it.

404
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 3: Yes, and there is. I just remember the name of

405
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:31,119
the project. It was like, the government did have this

406
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:34,680
project called Project Mongoose. I think it was called I

407
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,279
could be wrong, but it researching, you know, using ticks

408
00:21:39,319 --> 00:21:42,720
as biological weapons to dump on Cuba was the idea,

409
00:21:43,599 --> 00:21:49,799
and in its hypothesize it's potentially a possibility that line

410
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,519
came from that.

411
00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: This is sixties or seventies.

412
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, but seeing but the Northeast.

413
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: I could see that because the CIA was doing all

414
00:21:58,079 --> 00:22:00,680
kinds of fuck up shit, but also they are you

415
00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:04,519
don't even need a conspiracy when the situation is so

416
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,319
bad to be giving you have two hundred years of

417
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,960
fire suppression. I don't think how many people in the

418
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,440
eastern half the United States understand how much of an

419
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,319
effect fire has on ticks and how much of an

420
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:19,079
important part of the landscape fire was. I mean in Florida,

421
00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:22,680
you see evidence of it in all the lineages of plants.

422
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:26,599
They have evolutions and adaptations. Yes, the fire, yes, which

423
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,519
is so it's fucking nuts that. I mean, when you

424
00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:30,440
stop burning and you have two hundred years of that

425
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,519
and you have an explosive population of vectors, especially deer

426
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,240
and mice, you don't even need a conspiracy, but it

427
00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,680
would help, you know, it could be I mean why not, right? Yeah, yeah,

428
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,279
go ahead, what are you saying.

429
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: I was going to mention too, that one of the

430
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,680
major contributing factors is also that we've killed off all

431
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,400
the apex predators. So we have all of these deer

432
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,720
and rodent and other animals that the ticks love to

433
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,119
propagate on. There are populations exploded because the populations of

434
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:04,039
their hosts have exploded.

435
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the vectors have exploded. But I was asking you,

436
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:10,079
with all the work you've done in Florida because you

437
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,799
work for Florida Native Plant Society and you've been to

438
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,240
all these different habitats. Have you ever gotten ticks in

439
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:18,880
a habitat that burned the year.

440
00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: Before now, not even the habitat that burned like.

441
00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:22,319
Speaker 2: Three years before.

442
00:23:23,079 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: Never once? Well, how many years have you been doing

443
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,960
this now? Almost a decade?

444
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,839
Speaker 3: I mean I've been over it. I mean I've been

445
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,000
going out into native habitats looking at plans for like

446
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,119
eighteen years now.

447
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: Maybe it never had a problem with tick because the

448
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,599
tics gets It takes like.

449
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,519
Speaker 3: At least four to six year rough like post burn

450
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,880
for tick populations to begin to start infiltrating again. But

451
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:57,119
it has a marked long term, multiple year effect on

452
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,480
suppressing tick population as you're.

453
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,319
Speaker 1: Killing the ticks, but you're also figgers too.

454
00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:05,279
Speaker 3: I was just thinking when we were talking about this

455
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,839
that I don't get tiggers in areas that have been burned.

456
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: I would rather have ticks that sugars. Probably honestly, there

457
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,599
if there was.

458
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,799
Speaker 3: No disease risks covered in bites right now, if.

459
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: There was no disease risk, I would rather have siggers,

460
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:21,599
no ticks. Would you rather have staff or chiggers.

461
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,759
Speaker 3: At least the ticks you can pick off, you know, yeah,

462
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:26,640
at least.

463
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: Like what the staff infection, Like I got right now

464
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,920
because I knocked out my beneficial bacterory with Doxa cycling

465
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,319
because I thought I had typhis. Then I started going

466
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,319
to the gym and now, and I'm sure I picked

467
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,119
up nasty ship at the gym, and I was my

468
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,680
wallet was chafing when I was moving mulch and my

469
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,000
wallet was chafing through my jeans. It was sweaty and

470
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:46,519
fucking nasty where I lived because it's like a Petri dish,

471
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:48,880
and I got this rash. It felt like someone took

472
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,480
a cheese grater to my skin. I was like, no,

473
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:53,359
that's odd, there's no cut there, And I figured maybe

474
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,240
there was, because I'm always covered in cuts and ship

475
00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:57,720
from going through the brush to the thorn brush. And

476
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,359
the next day I was like, oh, fucking what this

477
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:04,160
from my nasty ass, sweaty jeans and the wallet that

478
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,640
I had chafing against it. And sure enough the next day, look,

479
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,279
nolah follicles were inflamed, and I was like, fuck man,

480
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,720
And I knew immediately, I'm like, this is going to

481
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,920
turn into cell legs. Yeah. Yeah, And so I was

482
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,759
dreading going to the doctor because it's always a pain

483
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:21,680
in the ass and the doctor's incompetent and they hate you,

484
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:24,640
you know, for being there. Yeah, And so I was like,

485
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:26,240
I'm just gonna lie and through the fake name of

486
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:27,960
the er thing, and it worked out fucking great. I

487
00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:29,960
was in and out in thirty minutes. I met a

488
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,599
nice doctor, really cool guy. He looked like a Mexican

489
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,039
Sebastian Menoscalco, but he was like he was more attractive,

490
00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:39,319
more handsome looking. You know, I'm straight, but I'm saying

491
00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:41,960
if I was gay, you know what I mean. He

492
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,000
was a handsome fuck That's all I'm saying. He had

493
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:46,440
like a suave and then he was he was funny

494
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,440
as hell too, and I and uh. And he told

495
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,039
me at the time he got staff on his face

496
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,359
when he was in med school, and he was like, yeah, man,

497
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,079
you're fucked there. I mean, you would have been fucked.

498
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,920
You know, there's no you're not. You can't get out

499
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,920
of this without taking antibiotics. Like there's a slight chance

500
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,119
maybe you could beat it on your own in like

501
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,799
a week, but you know, it's it's not looking good

502
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:08,559
right now. And it wasn't. Man. I was like it

503
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,039
was getting worse, you know, it was swelling. I was like, fuck,

504
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:13,079
all right, it was great. And then I paid like

505
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,240
twenty bucks, thirty bucks all together for antibiotics he put

506
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:21,000
me and cleaned the mice in three hundred milligrams. Yeah. Yeah,

507
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,720
And now that I'm sure they'll send me a bill

508
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:24,559
for twenty five hundred dollars and I'm never gonna pay.

509
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:26,559
But that's okay, that's fine. You know, that's what the

510
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,720
system encourages. So but anyway, we're talking about chickers. Yeah, yeah,

511
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:34,920
so so, but yeah, I would definitely rare. They have

512
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,160
a staff affection than than any of that. But the

513
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:40,359
chiggers are I mean, they fuck you up and you

514
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,240
can't even see them, so you don't know if they're

515
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:43,079
still on you.

516
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: Now I can see them, you couldn't.

517
00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:48,079
Speaker 1: I could probably. I don't think they just hanged. I

518
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,319
don't think they'd like bite you and then dip out.

519
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,279
I think that worked for it.

520
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: I usually first see them when I'm out in the field.

521
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,039
I start to get a little bit itchy and I'm like, oh,

522
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,079
is that a tick? And I look and there's no tick.

523
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,039
Then I look at my phone when it's black, when

524
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:02,799
the screen is black, and you can see the teeny

525
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,880
tiny little cha like spreading all over.

526
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: How many of you seen it once? Oh?

527
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,079
Speaker 3: I've seen them all up my legs, like when we

528
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,920
were at that parking lot in Terrea State Park and

529
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680
had gotten covered and then I could see them crawling.

530
00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:20,519
Speaker 1: Terrible. We should have taken a promethron bath, right then,

531
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:27,359
If only I had known? Wait, okay, but uh yeah,

532
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,039
but so when you light sit on fire, yeah, obviously

533
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,039
you'd only kill the the parasites themselves, you also kill

534
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,359
the the hummus that they need to maintain their moisture,

535
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,759
that they need to hide in to maintain their moisture.

536
00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:42,279
Adam Harreton, who does to Learn Your Land YouTube channel,

537
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:44,160
has done a video on us. He just did another one,

538
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,640
I guess a few weeks ago. But but there's the thing,

539
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,079
I don't you know, you don't even need a fucking

540
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,680
conspiracy when it's when you got you know, people running

541
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:54,799
things that don't know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah,

542
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,960
you know for two centuries, so you got to burn

543
00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:58,799
these woods man?

544
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:00,279
Speaker 2: What is that?

545
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,519
Speaker 1: Is it? A giants coya? There's a fucking giants sequoia

546
00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:05,319
in the middle of the over Yeah. That or a

547
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,400
cryptomrria or something. It was some kopressoid redwood plant that

548
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:11,400
is a landscape specimen. So now we're getting into the

549
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,400
really filthy parts of Kernersville. A lot of shit. Look humans,

550
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,200
huge locker. Yeah, it looks like the fucking uh you know,

551
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,960
uh East Berlin nineteen sixties, right, yeah, can you imagine

552
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,079
living there? Wonder what they're paying for that ship too. Oh,

553
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,960
that one's unfinished. But yeah, I listened. I listen. Don't judge,

554
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,759
but I listened to that Tucker Carlson interview with Kevin O'Leary,

555
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,319
the fucking shark tank ship bag, the the AI thing,

556
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,680
because there's the thing Tucker.

557
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,799
Speaker 3: Carlson is in the super AI data set.

558
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,599
Speaker 1: H Yeah. But Tucker Carlson, now, you know, you listen

559
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,680
to him once in a while and you're like, oh, yeah,

560
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,279
he's saund like some right ship and then he like

561
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,160
drops in a fucking light. Yeah, he's like, guy, I

562
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,400
shouldn't have to live next to some Somalis. Whoa what

563
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,559
the fuck? Man? Who kids? Okay, all right, whatever, man?

564
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:04,119
But yeah, it was but the ship that this guy

565
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:06,480
was saying was just terrifying. Like with the Kevin, the

566
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:08,920
Kevin Leary guy. When you hear this mother, because he's

567
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,119
behind that data center in Utah. They want to Yeah,

568
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,920
and when you hear about it, and the way this

569
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,359
fucking ship bag talks, it's all lies, it's all phony.

570
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:20,000
He sounds slimy as hell. And he also just doesn't

571
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:22,640
sound that smart now, you know, and you're like, this

572
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:24,440
is who's in control? What the fuck?

573
00:29:24,519 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: Man?

574
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: You know there you need you need to gonna bring

575
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,880
back the guillotines or something. You know, this is there's

576
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,039
no like these people obviously don't have the well being

577
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:39,079
of the collective in mind. And he kept talking about

578
00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:42,839
and the big thing they're talking about, all the hard ons,

579
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,039
all that they really have a heart on for China.

580
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,759
They're talking about, we have to be able to compete

581
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:50,400
with China. That's a big thing, you know.

582
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: It's there's so world behind they're not even competing, which

583
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,039
is wow.

584
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,559
Speaker 1: China built a middle class in like twenty years and

585
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:01,920
is light years ahead of us.

586
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 3: And just I mean, this is what they're doing is

587
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:08,319
just reaming out as much profit as they can before

588
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,880
everything collapsed.

589
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,079
Speaker 1: Because they know this is a collapsing empire. It doesn't

590
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:15,039
have to be, but it is. It's it's just a

591
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,039
parcel rotten all the way through. It's fucking rotten all

592
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:22,440
the way through. The Doctor Phil glory Hole. Do you

593
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,880
how many times do you think someone said those words together,

594
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:29,480
the Doctor Phil, gloryhole or just gloryhole and doctor Phil

595
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:33,559
in the same sentence. Probably a few times, right, I'm sure,

596
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,799
Old Doctor. If you've seen there's some dude that doesn't

597
00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:41,279
comedy skid like impression of Doctor Phil, it's fucking hilarious, man,

598
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,640
And he dresses up like him and.

599
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,119
Speaker 3: Shitoks like a cop.

600
00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, I don't know why. He just

601
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,680
cracks me up, man, it's I think because it's so

602
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:54,559
it's such a hammed up impression of you know, like

603
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,000
this old, comforting Southern dad, you know, and it's you know,

604
00:30:58,079 --> 00:31:00,559
that motherfucker's got some terrifying shit in his hard drive,

605
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,119
you know, skeletons in its closet.

606
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: Anybody who's trying to tell everybody else how they need

607
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:12,519
to live. You know, he's hiding something.

608
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: Was he that cash me outside? Was that that show?

609
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,759
Speaker 3: I think was on his show?

610
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's Welcome to America.

611
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: He's a culture creator.

612
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,799
Speaker 1: I't worth the best Western in beautiful Cournersville, North Carolina.

613
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,640
You were saying you were you were in central Florida

614
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,160
and some like little postage stamp sized.

615
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: Long It was beautiful. There's these old growth this little

616
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:45,359
tiny preserve that has the old growth long leaf that

617
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:52,039
somehow got protected. There's very little mature old growth long leaf.

618
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: What are you doing on there?

619
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:56,839
Speaker 3: I was down there for land management reviews, which is

620
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:03,599
the whole thing to explain. Basically, it's for your attending

621
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,839
a review of state owned lands, like different state parks

622
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:11,920
and preserves, in order to see how well the land

623
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,640
managers are, you know, managing the land basically. But I

624
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:21,279
just did this on my time off, and I knew

625
00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:23,839
that this park was down there and I wanted to

626
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,119
see it, and man, they were so incredible, these massive

627
00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:30,279
old long leaf pines.

628
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: How were they? How big a cross?

629
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not really good at judging diameter, but

630
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:42,160
they were big three hundred and four hundred.

631
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it got safe because it was pasture landers.

632
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were pastures at one point beneath them, which

633
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,319
unfortunately destroyed the understory because they planted Behea grass, which

634
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,880
is a non native invasive grass that is used as

635
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,440
a lawn but mostly used as for for cattle. And

636
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:06,200
so the whole understory, which would have been incredibly diverse

637
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,880
and just so beautiful. There are pieces of it that are,

638
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:14,240
you know, somewhat intact but not what they should be.

639
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,799
Speaker 1: Where else can you see old growth long leave like that,

640
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:18,039
like in an intact.

641
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: There's one privately owned property in South Georgia just north.

642
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,359
Speaker 1: Of where I live, and god damn, that's how far

643
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,319
you gotta go. Everything is gone, Yeah, I mean there's.

644
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: There's less than one percent remaining. Yeah, virgin longleaf.

645
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was wondering, man, what if the death cult?

646
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,559
What if the Europeans had landed on the west coast first,

647
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:42,480
you know, if you know, laid fourteen hundred and fifteen

648
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:45,680
hundreds and then moved the east and the east was

649
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,599
in better shape. Because that's only reason the west is

650
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,599
really preserved.

651
00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: That's the only reason we still have Sequoia's Yeah.

652
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,799
Speaker 1: Because the fucking deaficulty. It took a while for them

653
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,079
to get out there, you know, for the metastasis metastasis

654
00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:03,000
to spread that far.

655
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,119
Speaker 3: But that the one virgin like long leaf tracked in

656
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:15,320
South Georgia. It has never been cultivated, so the herbaceous

657
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,559
understory is intact. The groundcover is totally intact. And the

658
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:21,599
thing that stood out to me the most. I mean,

659
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,719
there's incredible diversity, like such densely packed diversity throughout the

660
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:33,639
whole parcel. But the feel of walking on soil that

661
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,039
has never been cultivated was so different than anything I've

662
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:42,760
ever experienced because everything I walk on has been cultivated

663
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,280
agriculture or has had cattle on it or yeah, or

664
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,320
agriculture or whatever. But this soil is is intact and

665
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,840
it was like soft. Each time you stepped it was

666
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,239
like walking on almost like a soft carpet, you like

667
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,960
a bed, you kind of sink into it. It was

668
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:04,800
incredible to experience that.

669
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,119
Speaker 1: Because I had never Why was that parcel saved?

670
00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 3: Because it was privately owned.

671
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, what person that was a member of

672
00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:14,559
that society chose not.

673
00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: To was it was privately owned by a family and

674
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,880
they hunted on that prop that was where they would hunt,

675
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,920
and they kept it into act and they never for

676
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:27,119
some reason, the person who owned it never let anybody

677
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,920
log it because I'm sure they got, you know, offer

678
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,480
after offer after offer for lots of money, but he

679
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:34,599
was independently very wealthy.

680
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,599
Speaker 1: So there's some big trees there, how tall massive.

681
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 3: I don't even know how tall they are. I filmed

682
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,119
a video with standing next to one of them, and

683
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,960
it's just it's, you know, I look, I look tiny

684
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,039
in the wild.

685
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,119
Speaker 1: God, that would be so nice to go out and

686
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,480
visit it. Where in Georgia is it.

687
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: It's in South Georgia, north, just north of the the

688
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,320
state line between Florida and Georgia.

689
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: Really what town is it near?

690
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,599
Speaker 3: Like kind of near maybe like I don't know, I

691
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,920
can't remember exactly. I know it's just north of like

692
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:16,719
tom near Thomasville kind of. I guess.

693
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,119
Speaker 1: I don't know where that is.

694
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 3: But if you want to to come down and might.

695
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: Be able to get Yeah, that would be nice to

696
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,599
check it out. One day. I've got to go speak

697
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:29,000
at Kullowe in July, so I was I was gonna

698
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:32,079
just drive there from Chicago and then just do a

699
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:34,000
bunch of stops along the way and maybe i'll come

700
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:35,960
through Georgia's God, it's gonna suck. It's gonna be a

701
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,760
long drive. There'll be a bunch of nice stuff to see, though,

702
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,440
I'll get ash rush again. I get staff when it's

703
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,880
all sweaty, when it's all hot and muggy, it's nasty.

704
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:47,239
You gotta get.

705
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,639
Speaker 3: You gotta like you gotta slightweight hiking pants.

706
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,679
Speaker 1: That you make fun of me, color hexiting or something.

707
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,880
We're short shorts. Yeah yeah, but then but then you

708
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,639
got how you protect your leggs from insects though, See

709
00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:01,920
that's it.

710
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:03,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I always wear pants.

711
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: That's why I wear pants too.

712
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: Man.

713
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: That was a thing that a lot of ranchers were

714
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,519
doing back then, or just anyone, any like a grarian,

715
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,519
anyone raising cattle, they'd always bring in invasive grasses. Why

716
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:16,880
was it?

717
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,119
Speaker 2: Why?

718
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Why do you think that was just because it was

719
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:20,599
easy and it's what they knew and they could re

720
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,079
see it. That's just what you did. Like why was

721
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:25,519
it not enough to let them just let the cattle eat?

722
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,559
Speaker 3: The majority of it is like, oh, that's just.

723
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: What we do, right at least like what we do.

724
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:33,360
It's just the ws always bad.

725
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 3: What you get cattle? You got to play behea.

726
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: Where's behea from?

727
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. You can look at up past below, notatum.

728
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: Past ballum, Yeah, it's past blum got all all the

729
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,800
grasses that were brought in for cattle suck. They're all horrible.

730
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:53,280
They just take over and smother everything. It's a nice

731
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,840
sunset at least. Yeah. Look at these woods, MANU, it's

732
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,239
just a dense wall. Fuck. Who wants to go in there?

733
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,079
I do. I don't want to go in there, not

734
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:03,760
until they burn it. Look at that. It's just a.

735
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 3: Lot of these woods out here. I mean a lot

736
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,719
of them are fire suppressed, but a lot of them

737
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,039
had mature canopies that would shade out a lot of

738
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:18,280
the understory. So once you go this looks like a

739
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,800
green wall on the side, but once you walk into

740
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,760
some of these areas, it's more open because it's the shade.

741
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: I just the whole East Coast is such a fucking

742
00:38:27,519 --> 00:38:31,880
nightmare for ecology in my opinion, from what you know,

743
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:36,159
I'm an outsider, but I get scared. There's fucking ticks

744
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:39,519
and sugars on everything. Two hundred years of fire suppression,

745
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:42,039
deer jumping out everywhere.

746
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 3: You know.

747
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,559
Speaker 1: It's like there's the deer like bed bugs. Man in

748
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:49,400
a fucking roach motel. Seriously, they're everywhere. They come out

749
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,159
of the they come out of the fucking I mean, you've.

750
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,119
Speaker 3: Got deers all over Texas.

751
00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:57,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, but that's a lot. But there's not even

752
00:38:57,199 --> 00:38:59,039
as many as when you go to the East coast

753
00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:02,840
or like Chicago. God damn the woods near Chicago, the

754
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,119
little forest preserves. You step off trail, you're covered in thicks,

755
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:09,920
same fucking thing. They won't burn it either. They'll go masticate,

756
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,760
but they won't burn it. You gonna get those those

757
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,000
tender Midwesterners used to some fire. I just want to

758
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:18,760
burn everything I get in landscapes like this, where you

759
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,280
get such high rainfall and it causes so much vegetative growth,

760
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:25,039
and I just want to fucking burn everything. That's all

761
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:25,679
I think about.

762
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,559
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you have to take into consideration the

763
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,800
this species and whether they're like actually adapted.

764
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: You gotta make up for lost time. You got two

765
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:44,320
centuries of this ship. You gotta Jerry, Jerry, I know

766
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,519
you can, I know, I know. But Jerry Wilhelm, the

767
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:48,760
guy that wrote Flora of the Chicago Region, which is

768
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,719
a wonderful tone. It's written really well, like ah, like

769
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,119
there's really it's it's not like that dry autistic shiitis.

770
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,079
It's like he you know, he's got like he's passionate

771
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:01,400
about the plants, so he writes his own little notes

772
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,719
descriptions about the genera. You know, it wouldn't be because

773
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,480
we fun You know, you meet those people sometimes who

774
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:12,159
are just like it's usually like males, you know, they're

775
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,440
just like reciting oh yeah, and then it was this,

776
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,639
and they're just reciting shit. And it sounds like when

777
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:18,639
they're talking about plants too, they could they might as

778
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:21,000
well just be collecting fucking pokemons or something like. There's

779
00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:23,880
no passion. They just read reciting shit that they read.

780
00:40:24,119 --> 00:40:28,599
Speaker 3: It doesn't it doesn't speak to a real familiarity with

781
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,199
the species.

782
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: No, it's just spectrum memorization. It's it's the void. Well,

783
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,000
how does it make you feel? What have you noticed?

784
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,599
What have been your personal observations when you're out in

785
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:42,679
the field, you know, getting stabbed by mosquitoes and whatever

786
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,800
feeling that went on your face and you're observing these things,

787
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,440
and what are the.

788
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,039
Speaker 3: Species that are similar and how do you differentiate them?

789
00:40:48,119 --> 00:40:50,039
Speaker 1: That day and the whole air smells like a fart.

790
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:53,480
You didn't cut one, did you know what that is? No?

791
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:55,239
It wasn't me. I didn't cut one either. It's so

792
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,480
where we are. It's fucking North Carolina.

793
00:40:57,599 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: Man.

794
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: Look at that pastel sun or sunset. Yeah, it really does.

795
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,679
It's look and it's coming. It's following us too, it's

796
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,199
going through that Oh boy, I should wow. It'sh those

797
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:14,679
Trader Joe's tackis. It's those knockoff tackis speaking of which

798
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:16,280
I gotta get some of those. If you got the

799
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,039
green tea, what a fucking angel. Look at that? Thank you.

800
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:20,800
I want to crack open a forty of green tea

801
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,000
right now. Anyway, Jerry Wilhelm burns his fucking suburban yard

802
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:26,000
every every other fault.

803
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 3: I burn my little my little grass I would do.

804
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:31,679
Speaker 1: Man. That's fucking great man.

805
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,639
Speaker 3: It's fun burn that shit. It's also great to burn.

806
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,559
I mean, I highly recommend a flame leader. I mean,

807
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:42,440
you need to know what you're doing, don't. People out there.

808
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:44,639
You shouldn't just buy whatever you want it, You've got to.

809
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,400
I've participated on many prescribed fires, so I have an

810
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,159
idea of what burns and how quickly it burns, and

811
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,480
how flammable it is, and what conditions to burn in

812
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,760
like I have not. I've wanted to burn my yard

813
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,519
this spring but I haven't been able to because it's

814
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:02,440
been so dry. And what I one of the precautionary

815
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:05,039
measures I take is I wet a whole ring all

816
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:07,440
around the area that I'm burning, so that I know

817
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:10,119
it's not gonna like jump to anything. But yeah, it's

818
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,159
super safe if you're doing it correct well.

819
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if it's not windy and it's like it's

820
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,239
not like it is out West like when I was.

821
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,679
When I lived out West, I couldn't imagine doing controlled burns,

822
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,159
especially at this frequency. But of course that was a different,

823
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,159
completely different climate. When it's this human and you get

824
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,920
sixty inches a rainy year, man, it's like you you're

825
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,719
not getting away without burning, right. You can. You can

826
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,119
masticate all you want, you can mow whatever, it's you

827
00:42:34,199 --> 00:42:37,679
gotta burn. I just got to pick the right time.

828
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:39,800
But it's you know, that's the thing that drives me nuts.

829
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,480
And these fucking I made the mistake of looking at

830
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:44,360
a fucking Reddit post someone had made about my yard

831
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,119
because I showed a photo. I showed a photo my

832
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:51,280
front yard and like that wild Ones presentation, I did, Yeah,

833
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,239
and they were there, and you know a lot of people,

834
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,719
there were a lot of positive comments, you know how

835
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,400
I am. I'llc ninety positive comments, I see one, I

836
00:42:57,519 --> 00:42:59,360
see one negative one. I'm like a flight of shit.

837
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,480
I'm yeah, and I saw it, and it was, you know,

838
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:04,800
as people being like, oh, I can't imagine the ticks.

839
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:07,880
You know, what the fuck are the tick's gonna come

840
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,519
Where the fuck are the tick's gonna come from, you

841
00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:13,559
fucking moron. Where they're gonna They're gonna parachute in how

842
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:15,800
the fuck they're gonna you know, they're gonna come up.

843
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,719
They're gonna come up through the sewer. There's no ticks.

844
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,519
I live in a fuck you've seen where I live.

845
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,960
It's like fucking dead. It's like and it's one hundred

846
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,079
and five degrees for ten months out of the year.

847
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,639
But its just that fear, you know, It's like you

848
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,360
just you don't even know, you're like the prop the landscape.

849
00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:34,519
You don't even know the landscape you're talking about. And

850
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:36,440
these we're supposed to like native plant people. It's not

851
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:39,599
like a native plant for them. But you know how,

852
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,480
it just blows my mind to how many people live

853
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,159
in the eastern half of the United States and they

854
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,000
see bad tics. They don't realize what causes it. It's

855
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:50,360
the fire suppression and the overpopulation and there I mean

856
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,880
the fire suppression alone would cause a huge because you're

857
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,239
just letting them live. There's nothing keeping them in check.

858
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,719
Of course, there's gonna be millions of ticks, but also

859
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,559
how the do you live on a How do you

860
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:04,039
live in a region and not know what an important

861
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:08,360
part of that landscape fire was for thousands of years before.

862
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,679
Speaker 3: How do you live in a region and not know

863
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:20,800
what ecosystems are surround you? What about don't know any

864
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:21,440
of those things?

865
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,039
Speaker 1: It's your favorite Chick fil an.

866
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 3: Even more importantly, they don't know what they're missing. They

867
00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:31,159
don't know how much poorer and sad their life is

868
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:31,960
without that.

869
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:36,079
Speaker 1: They don't know they're fucking cruelist. They're lost in the woods, yead.

870
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 3: It's like you want to shake people and be like, look.

871
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,079
Speaker 1: Is there still Arby's? Is that's still around her? The

872
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:44,280
go out of business? Do you ever think there's been

873
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,599
a doctor Phil Glorihole at Arby's the doctor Phil Glorial.

874
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:53,440
It's like a trademark. Now it's not just the Glorial,

875
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:54,519
it's a doctor Phil.

876
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: Well it all.

877
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,559
Speaker 1: Brought have you ever listened to any advice said doctor

878
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:05,639
Phil has for young people? Does he he's did he

879
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,239
do an episode of Scared Straight? Too?

880
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: I do think I remember watching him. His show was

881
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,280
always on when I got home from school when I

882
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,400
was a kid. I remember watching.

883
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:22,039
Speaker 1: He's a guiding light for America's teams. Yeah, holy doctor

884
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:25,280
fool God, damn do what I say it not what

885
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,320
I do, Doctor Phil. And then he's like on a

886
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,760
campaign trail for pedophiles and shit, like some fucking chit

887
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,280
bag right wing like anyway, Yeah, okay, well that's enough

888
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,840
for that. We won't we won't. We won't mention the

889
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,559
worst Doctor Phil and Glory whole one more time in

890
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:46,400
the next ten minutes. But uh but yeah, man, I

891
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,960
don't know the tick thing really. I just it just

892
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:53,599
sucks to see people so afraid of quote nature, yeah,

893
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:56,000
of like other lights, and that's all they can think of,

894
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:57,639
Like that's all they think of when.

895
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:00,599
Speaker 3: They seem neatly illogical. I mean, when you think about

896
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,800
the actual threats to your your life and to your

897
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,920
safety like that, it's not coming from ticks and snakes

898
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:10,639
and alligators.

899
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, ticks are worth being afraid of in some cases.

900
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 3: But that ticks are really the one thing that I'm

901
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,639
actually am kind of afraid of in the woods.

902
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: And I'm you've got guns.

903
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 3: Right, I don't usually carrying out. I'm considering it, but

904
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,199
I don't carry. I would only carry for humans, you know,

905
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,519
I wouldn't carry for animals, well, for.

906
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: Hogs, for feral hogs. Is this where we're getting off? Though?

907
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: Now?

908
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,599
Speaker 1: Where the fuck are we don't even know where we are.

909
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:43,360
I haven't seen any billboards. You need to give me

910
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,760
the direction to that the Best Western. I can say

911
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,159
the word the Best Western, because by the time this

912
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,039
podcast comes out, there's not going We're not going to

913
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:54,840
beat it no more. So, you know, anybody who I've

914
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,760
pissed off can't come looking for me at the Best Western.

915
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,000
You know, some of these carnivorous plant nerds are going

916
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:04,960
to be pissed at me, you think so they might

917
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:07,679
be pissed at me too, Why? Oh, because you you

918
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,639
light them up for poaching shit or something or what?

919
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: Oh?

920
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I tell people that, you know, if you

921
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,159
love carnivorous plants, then you should leave them where they

922
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:18,960
are and not collect them like an obsessive.

923
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: I told you about that guy in a South Texas nursery.

924
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,559
I don't even want to blow him up because he's

925
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:25,920
not a bit I mean whatever, yeah, well actually fuck him.

926
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,840
He's kind of doubling down now. But there was a

927
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,440
South Texas nursery that was just straight up poaching plants.

928
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,159
They were just hidding up landowners and being like, can

929
00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:36,000
we just come dig some plants? We'll pay you money.

930
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,239
Can we some dig up? Can we come dig up

931
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,119
some plants to sell?

932
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: Very fine double edged sword is that you want people

933
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:44,920
to know about the plants and love them. But the

934
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:47,639
only way that we have been taught how to love

935
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,639
things is through possession.

936
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,519
Speaker 1: Well it's like a collector thing to a place in

937
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:55,039
the whole primate hoarding complex and like poke up collecting pokemons.

938
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,199
But also, I will say, you know, my opinion, My

939
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,480
opinion on digging plants change when I move to Texas

940
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:03,519
because I saw so much habitat get destroyed. In California,

941
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:05,360
it's like a big no no. In Arizona, it's a

942
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,280
big no because there's actual public land out there and

943
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,599
it's seen as kind of belonging to everybody and you

944
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,400
don't do it. But in Texas, so much shit gets fucked,

945
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,039
and there's no protections for plants. So like, I know

946
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:20,960
people who've dug plants solely for the sake of preserving them,

947
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:22,519
not to sell, but.

948
00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 3: About to be when the habitat is being degraded.

949
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: To propagate them and dirt.

950
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, or if you really know what you're doing.

951
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: But but no, this dude was this guy was digging

952
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,840
off Texas per Simmons Diasporas Texas Ana and he wanted

953
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,559
to he was looking for Nowalia Hype Luca, the you know,

954
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:46,440
the chumunke, like these like slow growing, like if you

955
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:49,719
see one, they're mostly Mexican plants too, like they're from

956
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,719
higher elevations in math, they're climates in Mexico. And then

957
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,719
they're just kind of they're only in South Texas because

958
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,679
of the price of scene. I think it's kind of

959
00:48:56,679 --> 00:49:00,079
getting too hot for them, at least the chumnkes and

960
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:01,960
you know, and someone sent me an email and they

961
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,599
were like, yeah, this dude, this guy hit me up

962
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:07,559
and he wanted to buy some you know, like come

963
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:09,239
on my land and pay me the digum and then

964
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,199
sell them. And he's selling them for a fucking lot

965
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,199
of money, Like he's making a lot of money, yeah,

966
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,079
you know, and so what's to stop him from continuing

967
00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:17,519
to do that?

968
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: Right?

969
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,159
Speaker 1: Like, oh, there's so many, and you know, the landowner said,

970
00:49:21,199 --> 00:49:24,000
because it's that's right. It's Texas, so it's it's private property.

971
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,199
You could do with it what you want. I'm not

972
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,480
breaking any laws. Well no, but it's kind of slimy

973
00:49:28,119 --> 00:49:31,400
and it's unethical. And what's to stop you from taking everything?

974
00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:31,639
Speaker 2: Right?

975
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: If you you know, you go out to a fucking

976
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,079
parcel of land, there's you know, a huge, huge, huge

977
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:41,639
population of pitcher plants out there. Yes, I'm just gonna

978
00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,000
take one or two, but they always I'm just gonna

979
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:45,960
take one or two, and then someone's offering you one

980
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:48,960
hundred bucks for one yeah, like well okay, well it's

981
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,719
a hundred bucks. Yea, Well, there's so many out there,

982
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,880
I'm gonna go take a couple more. I mean, there's plenty.

983
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,360
They'll come back, they'll regenerate, and next thing you know,

984
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,719
there's fucking pock mark with holes.

985
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: And they're fifty one hundred, two hundred people thinking the

986
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,800
same fucking thing that month, you know, and it's so

987
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,159
it's just so sad, and I have to say, I

988
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,440
don't think it's just First of all, primates don't hoard

989
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,760
and collect things. I don't know.

990
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: I think this is an evolutionary complex.

991
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 3: I don't think cultural thing.

992
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly is, there's a lot of play, But

993
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:23,800
I think neurologically it's a primate. It's like the same

994
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,519
with greed, like like a chipmunk stashing it's fucking acorns

995
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,079
for the winter. Like. That's where the root of the

996
00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:31,880
neurology evolutionary.

997
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:36,159
Speaker 3: Response to lack and scarcity live in such a constant

998
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,000
state of black.

999
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: Right.

1000
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,559
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying that the neurology probably started, you

1001
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:44,079
know that way right there was some sort of adaptive

1002
00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:46,840
benefit and it wasn't geared towards things. It was geared

1003
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,280
towards you know, edible resources and whatever. And so that's

1004
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,519
why it stayed in the gene pool. But now it's

1005
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:56,159
to the point where it's going. You can just cross

1006
00:50:56,199 --> 00:50:56,719
over there.

1007
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,039
Speaker 3: Where we get off here, because this is where the best.

1008
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: You saw a waffle house you wanted to have You

1009
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,159
ever been kicked out of a waffle house? You can't

1010
00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:07,639
really get kicked out of It's like you can't get

1011
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,760
kicked out of an AA meeting. Oh yeah, you can really. Yeah,

1012
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:17,119
I've seen some fun up. I've seen that those motherfuckers

1013
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:18,280
tolerate a lot though.

1014
00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but not sexual assault, No, that's fucked up.

1015
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:28,159
Speaker 1: But I've seen like people screaming, having like crack. Yeah,

1016
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,679
have you seen people smoke? Cracking? And am this is

1017
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,760
a wholesome botanical You know you don't want to let

1018
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,719
the kids listen to this, right, this is what we're

1019
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,960
talking about. All kind of different stuff in here. It's

1020
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,440
not even about plants half the time.

1021
00:51:41,679 --> 00:51:42,119
Speaker 3: What is that?

1022
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: What's the D stand for you?

1023
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 3: Mariatt with the D.

1024
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: Fucking Kernersville, God damn it, I'm scared of the holy

1025
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,840
East Coast scares me. I just want to get in

1026
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,320
and get out. I couldn't live out of here. Why

1027
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,679
because it's just this is where all it all started. Man, No,

1028
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,199
nothing like that. The culture, it's all fucking this word

1029
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:05,800
all started.

1030
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: Man.

1031
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,199
Speaker 1: I need to be out west where there's open land

1032
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,239
in public land. Texas is fucking killing me. But I'm

1033
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,880
on a mission in Texas. Where's the public land on

1034
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,039
the east coast? There around eighty percent of the land

1035
00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:19,719
on the east of the Mississippi's private.

1036
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 3: I mean they're not smell.

1037
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: Fuck I can smell this ship coming out of that

1038
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,880
knom scart. Who you go wrap your car around the tree,

1039
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:34,719
you fucking douche. Where's he gonna go to with this charger?

1040
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1041
00:52:35,079 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: Get up there, you're you're fucking simple thing. There's a man.

1042
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:43,679
I do want to eat some mask go go, go go,

1043
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,039
you got it, you gotta yellow. I do want to

1044
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:48,199
eat some nasty ship at a waffle house. Nasty ship

1045
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,280
you get like a fucking greasy you know, you know

1046
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,559
you're gonna you know, you're gonna feel bad after it,

1047
00:52:54,679 --> 00:52:57,000
but it tastes so good. Yeah, they got hash browns

1048
00:52:57,039 --> 00:52:59,280
and some eggs. You get like a nice plate of waffles.

1049
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 3: Is this it?

1050
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 1: Are we here already? Durry?

1051
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:04,519
Speaker 2: Oh?

1052
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: Maybe it was? God, Look at this. Look at this

1053
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,239
commercial strip. It's disgusting. Jesus Christ, Welcome to Darryl Seafood

1054
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,159
or is it a steakhouse? See? This is why I

1055
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:16,760
couldn't live in most of the East Coast because it

1056
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:17,280
looks like this.

1057
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,559
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this everywhere looks like this.

1058
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: Everywhere. Yeah, because everywhere on the East Coast looks like this.

1059
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:23,239
Oh my god.

1060
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 3: Everywhere out west looks like this too.

1061
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking.

1062
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:30,039
Speaker 1: Where there's population centers, but it's much less dense. Population.

1063
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:33,559
Population is so dense out here. Here's the best Western

1064
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:36,480
this is. Okay, we'll continue this in a little bit. Okay,

1065
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:40,000
we're a couple of days later and over here we

1066
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:43,119
got we got someone new joining joining the podcast right now,

1067
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,840
weighing in at one hundred and seventy pounds at a

1068
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,280
height of roughly six to two. In the corner we

1069
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,559
have the graminoid Wizard. Loves to suck, loves to fuck,

1070
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:57,559
loves to get fucked. Scott Ward, Hello, Scott, Hey, how

1071
00:53:57,639 --> 00:53:59,320
are you so great? To have you here?

1072
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 2: Doing great? All of the things you just said are falls.

1073
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,159
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, don't be bashful. It's okay. We

1074
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,519
can be honest here. So what tell us what we're

1075
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:10,800
doing now? Where we're going. We're in the coastal plains.

1076
00:54:11,079 --> 00:54:12,920
We come down out of the Piedmont. Tell everybody with

1077
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:13,679
the Piedmont is.

1078
00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 2: The Piedmont broad eco provincial area. That's not the mountains,

1079
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,800
not the coastal plains. So it's sort of the middle

1080
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:28,760
of the state and typical Piedmont elsewhere involves actual small mountains.

1081
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,119
So the Piedmont is sort of a collective term for

1082
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:37,079
the broad rolling terrain before you get to the fall line. Anyways,

1083
00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:39,400
we spent time in the fall Line sand Hills in

1084
00:54:39,639 --> 00:54:44,320
Richmond Hope Fall. The fall line is historically would have

1085
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,159
been where the boats coming up river would have had

1086
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:50,159
to stop because the ripple would have been too much.

1087
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,960
So there's enough elevation change from the Piedmont to the

1088
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:59,519
coastal plain that you actually have rivers that are, you know,

1089
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:02,000
a bit more turbulent, so you couldn't get ships up them.

1090
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: Oh oh, the ripples, the rapids, the rabbits.

1091
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,039
Speaker 2: So that's why you have a lot of fall line cities.

1092
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,320
Raleigh's kind of one rocky mount all the way down

1093
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,960
to the Piedmont. You get these fay Avilion, you have

1094
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:13,920
all these fall line cities.

1095
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:18,159
Speaker 1: Okay, so you specialize in gramminoids, but you also specialize

1096
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:20,440
I mean, we've been talking about fire a lot lately.

1097
00:55:20,599 --> 00:55:23,719
I filmed the little patch of woods near Kernersville that

1098
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,400
you know is the Shitty Woods. That's, of course, not

1099
00:55:26,559 --> 00:55:29,320
any specific place on the East Coast that is a status.

1100
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,400
It's a state of being. The Shitty Woods. Explain to

1101
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:33,679
people what the shitty woods would be.

1102
00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:37,159
Speaker 2: So you were in Kernersville, which if you go a

1103
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:41,199
little further north you can see some really interesting Piedmont remnants.

1104
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,280
You can see sore Town mountains hanging out in state park.

1105
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:48,039
Pilot Knob is the most prominent feature of that, and

1106
00:55:48,199 --> 00:55:51,639
there's awesome fire ecology there too. There was a wildfire

1107
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,920
like two or three years ago there and it's just

1108
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,920
opened up quite a bit. You get some rare species

1109
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,639
on those rocky kind of uplands. But where you were,

1110
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,719
you basically, you know, if you took something beautiful and

1111
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,800
then cut it down to it, you know, a tenth

1112
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,239
of its size, and then sort of threw in a

1113
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,119
bunch of troublesome species, that's what that's where you're at.

1114
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: So invasive species and also just stop burning.

1115
00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:18,639
Speaker 2: And also fire suppression. Yeah, and so that those lots

1116
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,000
most others are just getting developed in parts of the Piedmont.

1117
00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:25,599
But if you were really ambitious you could thin them out,

1118
00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:27,440
open them up, and reintroduce fire.

1119
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: You would need to manually thin them first with chain

1120
00:56:30,039 --> 00:56:32,400
saws and shit, because it's too dense at that point.

1121
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be like a tinderbox going up if

1122
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:36,159
you tried to burn it. Plus some of them don't

1123
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,440
burn because there's such thick litter. And yeah, there's just

1124
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,639
a lot of dynamics that have changed when that habitat

1125
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,159
has been fire for suppress.

1126
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: When I put that video, it's crazy because someone, I mean,

1127
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,800
I'm in North Carolina. I filmed that, but I had

1128
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,360
people all throughout the Eastern Seaboard being like, damn, that

1129
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,639
looks like where I live. Yeah, and it sucks and

1130
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,199
the ticks are terrible, and it's it's just wild to

1131
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,119
me how many people aren't aware of fire collegy because

1132
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:02,960
it's so dominant here. Again, you have sixty inches of

1133
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:05,559
rain a year, You've got lots of vegetative growth. The

1134
00:57:05,679 --> 00:57:08,239
return intervals on fire here are much shorter than they

1135
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,679
would be in a drier place like the West coast.

1136
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, fire, So fire is almost divisive out west, but

1137
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:19,519
in the East, where the argument is more about when

1138
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,159
and how often things should burn, we know that fire

1139
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:25,320
is an integral component of the Southeast, even parts of

1140
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,840
the Northeast too. You would have had o kickory forest

1141
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,000
and like the southern tier of New York, those would

1142
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:33,360
burn maybe on a seven fifteen fri so like, yeah,

1143
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,199
you have too much variation to consider for just a

1144
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,280
simple summary thing. But in general, if you're in the

1145
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:45,079
coastal plane, you're just gonna have such such such a

1146
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:50,840
higher incidence of fire natural fire. The only problem is

1147
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,559
we had major periods of fire suppression, so you can't

1148
00:57:55,639 --> 00:57:58,800
always just reintroduce fire to some sites. Right, Fire won't

1149
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,840
carry through a thick ass four like the one you're in.

1150
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it takes you got to manually thin first.

1151
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: But but where you were, but where you were in

1152
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:09,519
the sandhills, you can tell that that is an area

1153
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:13,280
that would not look the way that it does without fire.

1154
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,360
I mean just now, yeah, where we were.

1155
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: Where we were, where's the good woods not the shitty woods?

1156
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:19,440
R Right, it was open, it was beautiful, it was

1157
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:22,320
long leaf. And then for that of diversity in the

1158
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,880
understory scrub oaks, et.

1159
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 2: Cetera, well for the record too. So one of the

1160
00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:31,280
issues in the reason why we're unsure about fire in

1161
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,880
the in the east, we don't have a lot of

1162
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,800
public backing behind that. We also just to have some

1163
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,880
ignorance too. Some people just aren't aware. But part of

1164
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,639
it does come with the terminology. So if we think

1165
00:58:41,639 --> 00:58:45,360
about eastern forests, we think about the eastern deciduous forest biome, right,

1166
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,760
that's basically all of eastern US. Well, it's not just

1167
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,880
all forest. We have these woodlands and savannahs, and these

1168
00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:56,119
are similar to forests, but they have a lot sparser canopy.

1169
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,559
So when you have an open oak, hickory woodland, when

1170
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:02,480
you have an open long leaf pine, sand hill or savannah,

1171
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:05,199
you have much most of your diversity in the understory.

1172
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:08,480
So the minute like that, the woodland in Kernersville, I'm

1173
00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:13,320
not sure what it was historically, but oh shit, you

1174
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,360
got rollers. They're checking people getting out looking for hemorrocalis.

1175
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,320
But anyways, so when you change the perception of what

1176
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:27,559
the dominant vegetation probably was in the southeast, you realize

1177
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,400
that it opens up a lot of doors in your

1178
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,880
mind to just accepting fire and then not just accepting it,

1179
00:59:33,079 --> 00:59:35,840
but thinking about what the best type of fire can right.

1180
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,199
Speaker 1: And there's a nuance too. It's not a blanket approach.

1181
00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:40,840
It's not as simple as just light shit up there.

1182
00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:43,639
And there's a lot of other things that daffic factors

1183
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,159
thin soils.

1184
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, even just soils in general like that. So where

1185
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:51,920
we were. The sands are super coarse, so you know,

1186
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,480
historically you couldn't grow crops on those. It is basically

1187
00:59:56,559 --> 01:00:00,760
like desert soils. And the sands are just so much

1188
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,800
more coarse than some of the places we're going to

1189
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,960
see in the outer or middle coastal plain today, and

1190
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,239
those loamier soils often support a richer flora in the understory.

1191
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,880
But yeah, so there's a ton of factors. We know,

1192
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,480
there's some grasslands that really persist because of thin soils.

1193
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,519
They don't really need fire, they don't need mega herbivores, right,

1194
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:24,039
they probably had those things periodically, but more often they

1195
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:27,159
just have soils that are so thin you actually get

1196
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,000
tree death. You know, you'll get a small tree that

1197
01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:31,920
will completely die in a drought year. Well, those are

1198
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,880
the factors that keep that habitat of over.

1199
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: But where we I mean, where we were today, I

1200
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,159
mean it was nice to when we were leaving in

1201
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,719
beautiful Richmond County, we were driving out, you could see

1202
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,239
the different stages recently burned, not burned in a few years,

1203
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,440
not burned in ten years, and then the really long

1204
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,360
you know, if they're fifteen years without a burn like

1205
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,719
that last one we saw where it's starting. The forest

1206
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,519
floor is starting to get dark. It's too dark for

1207
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:58,079
the arist that had to grow the wire grass. It

1208
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:02,079
looks like shit, it's not inviting. It's a lot denser.

1209
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,960
There's probably a lot of ticks right in places like

1210
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:07,599
that because it hasn't burned in a while. It was

1211
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:10,119
nice you could see, you know, the stages that it

1212
01:01:10,199 --> 01:01:12,199
goes through, like you can see it start to fill in.

1213
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:15,840
And how you end up with the trademark shitty woods.

1214
01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:18,159
Speaker 2: Well, you had this idea too that there was this

1215
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,280
climax community for a while. And I know you're big

1216
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,360
into climaxing in general, so let me kind of get

1217
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,559
into this line. Oh so you had this idea that

1218
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,000
the climax community and a lot of those were a

1219
01:01:30,119 --> 01:01:36,039
filled in forest, broad leaf deciduous deciduous forests. Well, actually,

1220
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,000
you when you fire suppress, that's more of a disturbance.

1221
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,079
You know, you actually are disrupting that ecosystem.

1222
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: So the climax sturbans dependence.

1223
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,119
Speaker 2: These are grassland. These are old growth grasslands. Really, they're

1224
01:01:48,159 --> 01:01:50,960
old growth savannas, old growth grass and they have been

1225
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:54,440
a volt They have evolved for thousands of years to

1226
01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:57,960
withstand periodic fire. You look at the plants there, you

1227
01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:01,159
look at like further south in lit kind of stomping

1228
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:05,199
grounds like sarah noa salpameaino. It's a geophyt right, it's

1229
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,719
like specifically evolved to just immediately resprout after correct.

1230
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:15,519
Speaker 1: You see that the plants themselves in their traits betraying

1231
01:02:15,639 --> 01:02:18,639
evidence of you know, evolutionary fire history.

1232
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

1233
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: And same thing in California too. You got the same

1234
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,639
thing in South Africa, and same thing in plenty of

1235
01:02:24,039 --> 01:02:25,840
places all over the world. There are also fired depend

1236
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,519
in Australia as well. You have plants that won't germinate

1237
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:31,519
unless they're exposed to smoke. You have woody liigno tubers,

1238
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,239
you have resprout mechanisms. You have infractescencis cones that light

1239
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:40,480
up just like banksia or hespero ciprus in California, Banksia

1240
01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:42,639
proteac in Australia.

1241
01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:43,199
Speaker 2: You know.

1242
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:44,719
Speaker 1: And so when people say, how do you know that

1243
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,320
this is was a thing, Well, the fucking plants tell

1244
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,360
us when you look at them, and they wouldn't. Why

1245
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,239
would you have seeds that don't germinate unless they're exposed

1246
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,559
to smoke? You know, if if there wasn't a fucking fire,

1247
01:02:55,639 --> 01:02:59,119
things don't evolve that out of chance. So but yeah,

1248
01:02:59,119 --> 01:03:04,239
the disturbances are especially disturbance dependent ecosystems, right, and if

1249
01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:05,639
they don't get it, so there, So what are you

1250
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:07,880
saying about climax, because there is no climax.

1251
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,039
Speaker 2: Really, really, the climax is a long leaf savannah. It's

1252
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:15,239
sparse pine canopy and a soup a super rich ground flora,

1253
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,760
and so that is the climax in that case. And

1254
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,519
same with grasslands. It's like, no, the climax is not

1255
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,039
a woodland, it's not a forest, it is a grassland.

1256
01:03:28,119 --> 01:03:30,800
How is it maintained that way with frequent disturbance? What's

1257
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:31,639
the disturbance fire?

1258
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: So grasslands are so much dope wher than force in

1259
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,880
my opinion most We'll.

1260
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,199
Speaker 2: Think about floodplains too, that's another example, like those are

1261
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,719
periodically disturbed. Those plants need to be able to.

1262
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: Or in the very high cloud force of Mexico, the

1263
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:47,920
room based landslides, they're they're the same thing in parts

1264
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,360
of Chile, parts of Ecuador, high end these same ship

1265
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,239
there's these fucking we get heard of. To stop saying it,

1266
01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:59,360
you know, if people can get past the frequent cursing

1267
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,079
and the toilet and we're Scott. I think they're gonna

1268
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:04,000
get some wonderful info out of this this conversation.

1269
01:04:04,239 --> 01:04:05,519
Speaker 2: Yep, I'll try to hold back.

1270
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,639
Speaker 1: Oh please don't please let it out? Okay?

1271
01:04:09,639 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 2: Anyway, So, so, yeah, so what blew your mind the

1272
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,159
most about those ails? I mean, what is it? Like?

1273
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:15,800
What's the first plants?

1274
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,119
Speaker 1: The sleepy at amplexic call is uh well, and also

1275
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:23,800
the the convergent evolutionary forces at play causing things like

1276
01:04:24,119 --> 01:04:29,920
intensely hairy plants like that les padiza, I mean the yeah,

1277
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,119
the roofs macho. I that's a what is it federally threatened?

1278
01:04:34,079 --> 01:04:38,079
It's endangered endangered, Yeah, federally endangered plant. Yeah. So this

1279
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:44,239
is you know, really intensely tomentos sumac that you know

1280
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,679
is colony forming, doesn't which the tallest that gets like

1281
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:47,559
three feet.

1282
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 2: It doesn't get I've never seen it much taller than

1283
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:51,480
like near or hip hepe.

1284
01:04:51,519 --> 01:04:52,679
Speaker 1: But so like what we saw in it.

1285
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,159
Speaker 2: Also think about the zenobia that has you'll see a

1286
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:58,719
lot of those super glaucus leaves that a lot of

1287
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,760
those are, in my opinion, adaptations to high sun environments.

1288
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,519
They have good, good soil moisture, but you still, you know,

1289
01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:11,320
don't want to damage your photosynthetic material in your leaves.

1290
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,519
So yeah, you put a glaucus bluem on it, boom.

1291
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: And you put hairs on it, and it's it's sunny.

1292
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,400
But there's also dappled shade occasionally too, as the sun

1293
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,400
moves across the sky and the shadows of the long

1294
01:05:23,519 --> 01:05:27,519
leaves moved too. It's a really it's a really inviting

1295
01:05:27,679 --> 01:05:31,559
human you know, inviting habitat for humans to hang out.

1296
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:35,400
You've got sun, you've got dappled shade, really lovely at

1297
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,639
night it's open. Yeah, lots of fucking wonderful fireflies. And

1298
01:05:38,639 --> 01:05:41,400
then you've got these creeks and fens there too, like

1299
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,000
the fen with the Saracenias in it. We saw three

1300
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:50,199
different Saracenia species purporescence, rubra, and flava. And then there

1301
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,079
was I got to see taxicodendron. Vernex made a comment about,

1302
01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:54,880
you know, flagulating my scroll them with it.

1303
01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:58,119
Speaker 2: You did say that, Yeah, it's a wonderful.

1304
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: Species to see. I love I love the u rush

1305
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:02,840
all containing ration inducing plants.

1306
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 2: And quick shout out to poison sumac. It almost always

1307
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:09,920
is in high quality wetlands.

1308
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: So it doesn't tolerate anything.

1309
01:06:12,119 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't do quite as well with areas that have

1310
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:17,280
been disturbed by humans. But when you see it as

1311
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,480
there's often good stuff around it well.

1312
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: Because it needs it likes wet feet, but it also

1313
01:06:22,039 --> 01:06:22,400
likes sun.

1314
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 2: You were saying, Yeah, it really is an obligate wetland

1315
01:06:26,519 --> 01:06:28,920
plant and needs some open sun. So you'll see it

1316
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,480
in some dapple kind of overgrown fins. But yeah, all

1317
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:34,719
the way from Canada to Florida, you see it in

1318
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,400
these interesting little seepitch eco tones and the habitats always

1319
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,400
a little different, but the basic requirements are the same.

1320
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,360
And that's what's you know, we're going to see that

1321
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,679
today too with Calmia bucks of Folia. There's just so

1322
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:52,199
many interesting case studies to think about evolution, and plants

1323
01:06:52,239 --> 01:06:54,519
always make a good model system for that. Insects I

1324
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:57,159
always thought were great for that too, Like here's an

1325
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:03,599
organism specifically designed to withstand attacks from other insects, super

1326
01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:06,519
hot temperatures. You know, plants are no different. But what

1327
01:07:06,639 --> 01:07:11,079
we'll see with Kalmia as an example, is it grows.

1328
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: In these.

1329
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 2: These distinct, disjunk parts of North Carolina, where the habitats

1330
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,880
are pretty different. The provinces are different, right, The mountains

1331
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,119
of North Carolina, far western North Carolina are quite different

1332
01:07:24,199 --> 01:07:28,840
than the low coastal plain, Right, but their habitat uplands,

1333
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,559
dry soils, acidic, nutrient poor, stressful are the same. And

1334
01:07:33,679 --> 01:07:36,760
so it begs the question where was this plant?

1335
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: Right?

1336
01:07:37,079 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 2: It used to probably be all over and now it's

1337
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,400
only these three little patches. So there's lots of fun

1338
01:07:41,519 --> 01:07:43,960
questions to think about. But it's fun to just get

1339
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,119
feed on the ground and just see these things and

1340
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,079
compare them. I mean, it's you know, any number of

1341
01:07:49,159 --> 01:07:50,920
species that you could be interested in in.

1342
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: The Kalmia bucksifolia, this is the one you were saying

1343
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,480
would do grade along the highways, but instead we get daililies.

1344
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,199
Speaker 2: Well, I think, yeah, we could. We could. We could

1345
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:05,920
have little sort of rare habitat highway gardens and we

1346
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,679
could throw in a few hemorhocallis too, for the you know,

1347
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:09,760
the normies.

1348
01:08:11,239 --> 01:08:13,519
Speaker 1: For the members in a square community. God, I fucking

1349
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:16,439
hate daililies. Dailies are like the crape myrtle. Though you

1350
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,680
do get crape myrtle, they're like the crape myrtle of

1351
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:20,039
the east or the southeast.

1352
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:22,279
Speaker 2: Oh, that's all dick. We're driving by a bunch of

1353
01:08:22,359 --> 01:08:25,079
dick scab right now, dicanthelium scab or eusculum.

1354
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: That's the one that goes up.

1355
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: Yep, it's super tall, super fire, super fire, that's right,

1356
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:38,079
that's right, super super flammable vege. Another another indication of

1357
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,039
pyrogenic regions. So the West, I don't know. I don't

1358
01:08:41,079 --> 01:08:43,000
know enough about Western fire, but I know in.

1359
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:46,039
Speaker 1: The East there's longer intervals, just dryers.

1360
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 2: And so much elevation based too. But in the East

1361
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,600
it's it's relative. But in the East, I think we

1362
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:57,880
just have we've had such a such a greater incidents

1363
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,600
of frequent fire. And we know this from people like

1364
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:06,520
Jane Huffman, who is a pyrodendrocronologist and studied tree ring

1365
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,880
cores in lots of long leaf stumps throughout the South.

1366
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:13,039
She found as much as as much of a one

1367
01:09:13,079 --> 01:09:16,039
to two year return in some of these super open

1368
01:09:16,079 --> 01:09:20,319
savannahs and dry prairie landscapes in Florida. So yeah, we

1369
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,640
have evidence. And not only do we have evidence of

1370
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,720
the frequency, but she tended to see that a lot

1371
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,520
of the fire fires were occurring in the April through

1372
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,640
June period, so what they call in Florida the transition season.

1373
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:38,279
So veg super dried out, right, the temps are drying,

1374
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,239
temps are getting higher, Vege is drying out, and then

1375
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,319
you start getting things like lightning strikes. Right, you can

1376
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:46,359
start to get those early lightning strikes in early summer,

1377
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:48,920
but you don't always get a bunch of rain. Sometimes

1378
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,199
you get a lightning strike, it hits a stump. That

1379
01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:54,720
stump smolders for days and it lights things up once

1380
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:59,399
things dry out again. So there is actual scientific evidence.

1381
01:09:59,399 --> 01:10:01,319
This isn't just saying yes, it seems like it's a

1382
01:10:01,359 --> 01:10:04,000
paratige community. No, it's we have fire scar data going

1383
01:10:04,079 --> 01:10:07,479
back three or four hundred years, and not only is

1384
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,800
it telling us it was fire was occurring frequently, but

1385
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:13,560
often within a particular season. So those are the two

1386
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,720
big debates. Yeah, that frequency season how.

1387
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: West, I mean how west because it's it's less rainfall

1388
01:10:19,239 --> 01:10:21,520
and the hottest seasons also the driest. You've also got

1389
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,319
different seasonality to the rains, you know, winter wet, summer dry,

1390
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,359
especially in that chaparral and a lot of maritime chaparral

1391
01:10:28,399 --> 01:10:31,359
even around places like Santa Cruz, East Bay Hills down

1392
01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:34,880
into southern California. All the Arctostaphalos there's like, you know,

1393
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:38,920
ninety different species and subspecies there are. At least half

1394
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,600
of them are fire dependent. Like the seeds build up

1395
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,920
in the seed bank and they won't germinate until a

1396
01:10:45,039 --> 01:10:48,079
fire or disturbance comes through. Sometimes if a place gets

1397
01:10:48,119 --> 01:10:53,319
like bladed mode or mechanically you know, the bulldozer goes

1398
01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:55,399
through scrapes that that can get them to germinate too.

1399
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,680
But like around the Santa Cruz area, like ben Lamond, etcetera.

1400
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,920
There's some really credible Bonnie Dune fire dependent.

1401
01:11:03,119 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: Actually stopped at Bonnie doing less a cruise cypress.

1402
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,119
Speaker 1: Man, those cones stay closed for years until well, what

1403
01:11:09,319 --> 01:11:11,840
the fire melts the resident. Same thing. Knob Cone pine too,

1404
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:12,319
same thing.

1405
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's what's the species am on Knobcone?

1406
01:11:15,199 --> 01:11:18,359
Speaker 1: Is it? It's not miracata, it's a tenuata I think

1407
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:19,079
atten eighty.

1408
01:11:19,159 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that one, that one's a stand replacement after fire.

1409
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:26,399
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and they walk off Spindley and even age stands.

1410
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,279
You see areas of McNab cypress, you know, like near

1411
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:32,720
Chico area and serpentine sils are the same thing. McNab.

1412
01:11:33,399 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 2: It's effectively it's like the sand pine. It's like the

1413
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:37,760
sand pine or Virginia.

1414
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're all and they smell incredible, and they're

1415
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,520
filled with this really pleasant smelling resin to holy shit.

1416
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,000
The Santa Cruz and pig Maya cypresses smell kind of

1417
01:11:45,039 --> 01:11:50,439
like lemon. Tacaate smells like a sugary kind of frosty lemon.

1418
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:54,079
And then you know the Mcnabiyana and Baker Eye smell

1419
01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:56,560
like some sort of like fancy cologna. Actually, it's like

1420
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,439
they're really pleasant. They grow and you know the inland.

1421
01:11:59,319 --> 01:12:02,600
Speaker 2: Northern we saw something there. We saw a couple of

1422
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,119
artistahlos there. This was in like October. But what what

1423
01:12:06,319 --> 01:12:12,760
amazed me about the Bonnie dunefire was the amount of

1424
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:17,159
sand and general lack of vegetation between the big pines.

1425
01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:20,000
So it was interesting to me how well that fire

1426
01:12:20,079 --> 01:12:22,680
must have carried through there. It must have just had tons.

1427
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: Fright, yeahs fuel does, and that's why if it builds

1428
01:12:26,079 --> 01:12:28,479
up you get these bad fires and then you get

1429
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,720
the Santa Ana winds in the early fall, late summer

1430
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,479
as well. That's why it can be so bad. It's

1431
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:35,680
because it becomes the air becomes like a blowtorch. It's

1432
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:40,319
blowing laterally and everything's on fire and it just moves fast.

1433
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:40,600
You know.

1434
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,279
Speaker 2: It's like that song Babylon Sisters by Steely Dan.

1435
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: I don't know that one.

1436
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: Here, here come those Santa Ana wins again.

1437
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,319
Speaker 1: Okay, right, well I believe you.

1438
01:12:50,359 --> 01:12:53,239
Speaker 2: But anyway, so so wait, Lily, have you met Geen Huffman.

1439
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a good friend of mine. She's the one

1440
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,600
who did the research on the fire scars on the

1441
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,199
really old pines a long leaf across Florida, and she

1442
01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:06,840
proved that the uplands, the majority of the uplands in Florida,

1443
01:13:07,039 --> 01:13:12,199
burned on a like one point five year return intervals,

1444
01:13:12,319 --> 01:13:14,680
so almost every single year they burned.

1445
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 2: Was she and was she meeting up with Nicole at all?

1446
01:13:19,039 --> 01:13:23,199
When Nicole was doing her tree ring stuff for long week? Youmember?

1447
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Nicole met up with her, and Jean worked

1448
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:27,920
with Nicole.

1449
01:13:28,239 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: So this was controversial when this was coming out, I

1450
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,680
mean like twenty or thirty years ago or oh longer

1451
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:35,520
ago or what did Gen Huffman do? Well?

1452
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,039
Speaker 2: Fire has always been Gene opened up our mind to

1453
01:13:39,079 --> 01:13:41,479
the frequency and the seasonality of fire. I mean, in

1454
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,000
Florida is pretty different than a lot of the Southeast.

1455
01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:47,119
It has a really defined wet and dry season, so

1456
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:49,039
you can't always compare it to the rest of the South.

1457
01:13:49,119 --> 01:13:53,399
But there were botanists that, in my opinion, were ahead

1458
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:56,439
of their time that still didn't understand fire. In the

1459
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:01,720
early nineteen hundreds, for example, John Counkle Small, he was,

1460
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:05,479
without a doubt, I mean he was at MIYBG. He

1461
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,119
was a Yankee botanist, but without a doubt, one of

1462
01:14:07,159 --> 01:14:10,479
the most important Southeastern botanists. Even though you know he

1463
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,359
wasn't living in the South, he was coming to Florida

1464
01:14:12,359 --> 01:14:15,840
almost every year. He was documenting Florida on its very

1465
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,840
last sort of run before a lot of changes happened

1466
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,119
in that state, and so before it really got fucked

1467
01:14:21,159 --> 01:14:23,880
before it really got fucked up, and so you know,

1468
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,840
kind of the nineteen twenties after Lake Okeachobe major changes

1469
01:14:29,239 --> 01:14:32,079
in the canals and hydrology of that lake. So that

1470
01:14:32,239 --> 01:14:34,960
sort of marks the beginning of an era when South

1471
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,119
Florida changed dramatically. But John Counkle's small what you could

1472
01:14:39,159 --> 01:14:44,039
see him almost figuring out pyrogenic plant species live like

1473
01:14:44,159 --> 01:14:47,239
in his floras, he'll you know, or in his publications

1474
01:14:47,279 --> 01:14:49,640
he writes about these tiny little herbs that are maybe

1475
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,600
six inches tall a foot long, and they have these

1476
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,760
tubers that are like massive. So tiny little herbs even

1477
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,319
have like these sort of geozilic stations they keep all

1478
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,800
that's right, They keep a lot of their biomass underground.

1479
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,239
So anyways, johnkos Small really was not a fan of

1480
01:15:08,319 --> 01:15:10,520
fire at the time because he was seeing a lot

1481
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,720
of habitats get catastrophic fire, like wet wetter hammocks and

1482
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:18,520
salt floter that probably shouldn't have had catastrophic fires. He

1483
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,439
was seeing them burnt to a crisp and so he

1484
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:22,520
had a bad taste in his mouth about fire. When

1485
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:26,199
he was seeing the central Florida dry prairies burn, you

1486
01:15:26,279 --> 01:15:28,399
could tell that he wasn't looking at it in the

1487
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,359
same light. But he also just didn't know what we

1488
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,359
know now, right, And there wasn't a gene huffman back

1489
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:37,239
then to tell us, oh, here's the evidence for this, like.

1490
01:15:37,399 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: This, this is happening because there hasn't been low intensity

1491
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,880
fires for a while, and fuels accumulate and then she

1492
01:15:44,039 --> 01:15:46,520
gets out of control and then places burn that wouldn't

1493
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,119
normally burn right right in intensity, they wouldn't normally there.

1494
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:52,199
Speaker 2: And they're seeing that in the pantanol in the past

1495
01:15:52,319 --> 01:15:56,319
few years. Where South America, it's like it's like this

1496
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:01,439
massive tropical swamp forest that has had a lot of

1497
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:04,439
fire encroach into it from the Serato, from the nearby

1498
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:10,000
savannah's because they're they're really dry seasonally, and so yeah,

1499
01:16:10,039 --> 01:16:13,199
you have ecosystems there that are on a much super

1500
01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:18,680
super infrequent fire return that are now getting savannahs sort

1501
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,199
of encroached on them, or the savannah is expanding into

1502
01:16:22,239 --> 01:16:24,359
some of those habitats. But there's lots of there's lots

1503
01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:25,239
of other problems there too.

1504
01:16:25,319 --> 01:16:28,600
Speaker 1: But Saho and Brazil is some of my favorite fucking

1505
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,520
habitat I've ever been in. It's so cool.

1506
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 2: Actually it's pronounced Serato.

1507
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 1: Oh it's not, because it's Portuguese. I didn't want to

1508
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,079
come out and correct you in front of everybody. Okay,

1509
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,119
you know, but this it's just we're already there and

1510
01:16:41,239 --> 01:16:42,000
doing it. Okay.

1511
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 2: The other one is, uh, what's the one? What's the

1512
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:52,119
plant west of what's the common name for folk folk?

1513
01:16:52,199 --> 01:16:57,000
We are electric that's right, that's the one I was thinking.

1514
01:16:57,039 --> 01:16:57,399
Speaker 1: Electric.

1515
01:16:58,039 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, fire is fire is less controversial, and Florida,

1516
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:07,640
interestingly kind of leads this leads the state and acres burned,

1517
01:17:08,279 --> 01:17:09,960
which is one of the few things that Florida actually

1518
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,640
leads the state in. That's a good thing.

1519
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:13,640
Speaker 1: They do a lot of fucking's burning. Now, that was

1520
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:14,359
very impressed.

1521
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:15,680
Speaker 2: Wait did you not like that, Lily?

1522
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 3: What No, I was just gonna say. It's also Florida

1523
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:23,800
has the highest like rate of fire or sorry, of

1524
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:29,079
lightning strikes in North America. Besides just one spot in

1525
01:17:29,239 --> 01:17:32,359
Mexico has a slightly higher rate of lightning strikes. So,

1526
01:17:32,399 --> 01:17:36,880
but one of the reasons why our our ecosystems are

1527
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,720
so pyrogetic is because of those high rate of lightning.

1528
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: They're sure run on three sites by water. You got

1529
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,960
a lot of by warm waters, so you've got a

1530
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,279
lot of storms going on there.

1531
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,079
Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, so Florida has this crazy thing. We

1532
01:17:49,159 --> 01:17:52,600
could do a whole episode about Florida and you know,

1533
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,479
cultural just we could do episode just on the culture,

1534
01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:02,359
the rich culture of efflash. Yeah, but anyways, the uh see,

1535
01:18:02,359 --> 01:18:04,520
now I'm distracted when you do that. What were we

1536
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:12,279
talking about well, yeah, we went. The dry and wet

1537
01:18:12,359 --> 01:18:17,920
season in Florida is driven by these convective currents that

1538
01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:20,960
come off the coast in summer. So the reason why

1539
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:27,000
you get those daily thunderstorms. Well, the Panhandle though, does

1540
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:30,800
get some influence from that, Like Eglenn, you'll get you'll

1541
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:31,960
get daily thunderstorms.

1542
01:18:32,079 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: They do a lot of burning though. Man. When you

1543
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:35,960
go to Lake Whales Ridge and you see I mean

1544
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,920
there's like there's you know, who was it who's stay

1545
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,680
with Alan? And uh what's his wife's name? Fuck? I forget?

1546
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,199
Yeah they no, no, no, not Brett, no the fire.

1547
01:18:45,319 --> 01:18:48,199
They were fire starters. They were pyroat.

1548
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,079
Speaker 2: Colleges, Allen and Alicia.

1549
01:18:51,279 --> 01:18:53,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah about you know, and they

1550
01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:56,119
have all these stickers, you know, talking about fires and

1551
01:18:56,199 --> 01:18:58,920
fired at all the toolboxes and stuff, you know, on

1552
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,680
the doors on a fridge yep, right back of the cars,

1553
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:03,279
like there's it's a thing like it's.

1554
01:19:03,319 --> 01:19:05,319
Speaker 2: Did you see their skull collection? Well oh wait no,

1555
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,680
that's wait sorry, that's uh that's Dustin. He's the he's

1556
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:12,800
at Archbolt. Alan and Alisha are great. They they want

1557
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:14,479
me to come to their new house because they have

1558
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:16,800
a bunch of rare endemics in their lawn.

1559
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: They got they got that pygmy. Yeah, it was nice.

1560
01:19:22,199 --> 01:19:25,479
They have air blows cold throughout that trailer. Oh yeah,

1561
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,960
you're very comfortable. Didn't they have dogs, dude, don't they

1562
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:30,000
have a sweet dog or something?

1563
01:19:30,119 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they have a little nice dog forget oh

1564
01:19:33,039 --> 01:19:35,680
h shuey or something. Yeah, it's like a little uh,

1565
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:37,079
it's a good sized dog.

1566
01:19:37,159 --> 01:19:37,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1567
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:42,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, So Alan and Alisha are pretty ecologically woke.

1568
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,239
A lot of people in Central Florida aren't aware of

1569
01:19:45,319 --> 01:19:48,319
what they have, and so I would like to see

1570
01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:51,960
a lot more support of you know, these scrub communities

1571
01:19:52,119 --> 01:19:54,159
in their lawns. We see zir escaping in the air

1572
01:19:54,199 --> 01:19:57,359
at Southwest, why don't we see scrub scaping in Central Florida.

1573
01:19:57,399 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: They got a backyard that they it's like they have

1574
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,439
a restored stuff. Yeah, they're just taking care of what

1575
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,920
they got that they're talking about putting stuff in the front.

1576
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,279
Speaker 2: But well, Nancy, Nancy Bisset, she's really one of the

1577
01:20:08,359 --> 01:20:11,800
og native plant people in Florida, and she has shown

1578
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,960
that it is really easy to recreate Florida ecology in

1579
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:15,640
your yards.

1580
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,199
Speaker 1: And you can make scarguard from getting taken over by

1581
01:20:18,279 --> 01:20:20,159
not all grass and all the invasive bullshit.

1582
01:20:20,279 --> 01:20:22,560
Speaker 2: That that's a hard part.

1583
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 3: That's yeah, that is That's what Alicia is dealing with

1584
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,399
in her yard, is the natal grass and that that

1585
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,319
new long gone the tanglehead. What's that genus?

1586
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,199
Speaker 2: Oh, chrysopogon No.

1587
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 1: I remember you remember you talking about Yeah, it's.

1588
01:20:41,119 --> 01:20:44,079
Speaker 3: Has super long on, yeah, super long gone. Anyhow, it's

1589
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:50,560
it's becoming beautiful, dense colonies, very difficult to eradicate except

1590
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,199
with herbicides, and that's really the only way they've been

1591
01:20:53,279 --> 01:20:55,039
able to manage them as herbicides.

1592
01:20:55,279 --> 01:20:59,319
Speaker 2: Most well, most most of those lawns are already like uh,

1593
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,079
Augustine or maybe bermuda.

1594
01:21:02,359 --> 01:21:05,039
Speaker 1: So I've imagine you have that plant community which is

1595
01:21:05,119 --> 01:21:09,319
so incredibly cool, and you plant fucking horticultural atrocities. Man,

1596
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,520
you should be tarred and feathered. I'm sorry, man, that's just.

1597
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 3: Like the Saint Augustine is actually a native species though,

1598
01:21:16,239 --> 01:21:19,560
that's that is the one thing. But of course it

1599
01:21:20,079 --> 01:21:22,279
would not have occurred inland, and it would not have

1600
01:21:22,359 --> 01:21:25,199
occurred in the quantities that it does because of our song.

1601
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: But I'm even talking about that, I'm talking about I'm

1602
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,960
talking just about all the ship that you see planted

1603
01:21:30,039 --> 01:21:33,000
in Florida and here just like this fucking garbage, like

1604
01:21:33,039 --> 01:21:36,640
the Laurel pedalum we saw everywhere, hedged into little with

1605
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,840
the red leaves to drill the eye in and hedged

1606
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:43,319
in the lolly popul this wax shit. Yeah, oh, it's

1607
01:21:43,359 --> 01:21:44,520
just vomited a can.

1608
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:48,319
Speaker 2: It's like it's like Edward Scissors scissor Hands never let

1609
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:53,159
his grip off of American horticultural trends, like I see

1610
01:21:53,199 --> 01:21:56,880
these Edward Scissors scissor Hands landscaping all landscapes all the time.

1611
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,560
And I saw one of my favorites the other week.

1612
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:05,640
It was it was literally someone had had pruned two

1613
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,520
separate hedge species into each other, and one of them

1614
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,439
was one of the non native azalias. And so every

1615
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:16,039
other like two feet on this this whole hedge along

1616
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:18,680
this laundromat, every other two feet was a bunch of

1617
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:19,479
pink flowers.

1618
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 1: It was.

1619
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 2: It looked it looked like, you know, some wild sort

1620
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:24,199
of thing going on.

1621
01:22:24,359 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 1: But anyway, okay, speaking of rhododendron, so with anthrodote to

1622
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:31,880
the nausea, the Rhododendron atlanticum, Yeah, we saw last night.

1623
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,119
That was a fucking stunner, a little super fragrant. Yeah, man,

1624
01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:38,359
I mean, although, what was the amalok here albavada or something?

1625
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 2: What was it?

1626
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:39,159
Speaker 1: Wait?

1627
01:22:39,239 --> 01:22:39,560
Speaker 2: Which one?

1628
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,680
Speaker 1: That dwarf amaloch here there's oh alba alis. Yeah, in

1629
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:47,000
the understory of God the fucking long leaf pine forest

1630
01:22:47,079 --> 01:22:49,960
at dusk. Man, that was just like, yeah, we got there.

1631
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,960
My eyes lit up. That Lionia mariana. It was a

1632
01:22:53,039 --> 01:22:58,399
cool host of different Vaccinium. Yeah, Galasacia species.

1633
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 2: Well, you you got a good sense too of how

1634
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:05,560
you have your upland wiregrass, long leaf. You have your

1635
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,720
lowest stream head vegetation, which is where the actual streams

1636
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,159
are originating right in the landscape, and then they'll flow

1637
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:18,199
into actual streams. But you know in there you have

1638
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,840
smile ex lower folio. You have some of these more

1639
01:23:21,239 --> 01:23:24,760
wet adapted plants. Well you have that strip between them.

1640
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:26,399
That's where the good stuff is. That's where we were

1641
01:23:26,399 --> 01:23:29,319
seeing the saracenia. That's where seeing a lot of the

1642
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:33,840
rare plants that are monitored by folks like NCA Heritage, right,

1643
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:38,279
so natural heritage, so they specifically target those ecotones. So

1644
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,960
I showed you one case of we're looking at the ecotone,

1645
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,960
and I showed you that in some states they'll put

1646
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,000
a fire lane right there, and they do it for

1647
01:23:49,239 --> 01:23:51,560
a couple of reasons. Sometimes they don't want peak fires

1648
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,399
to last for days if it's really drying happen. But

1649
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,920
that those fire lanes do quite a number on a

1650
01:23:57,920 --> 01:23:59,880
lot of those rare plants. So going over that critical

1651
01:24:00,199 --> 01:24:03,000
going over that critical ecotone. Yeah, so I'd like to

1652
01:24:03,119 --> 01:24:07,119
see a little less ecotne fire lane conversion in the South.

1653
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:11,359
But sometimes managers, you know, have some reason for that,

1654
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:14,520
some reasoning for doing that. Plus not not every single

1655
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,479
ecotone is gonna be suitable for those types of species.

1656
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:22,399
But we know Shwallby American American chafts seed only occurs

1657
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:25,000
in those sand hill seat but gicotones, So you have

1658
01:24:25,199 --> 01:24:26,359
to target those areas of hell.

1659
01:24:26,359 --> 01:24:28,279
Speaker 1: Every buddy White because I already mentioned this plant a

1660
01:24:28,319 --> 01:24:30,199
few times, everybody, why you're excited about.

1661
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 2: This one SCHWALBYA is you know it's it's a little

1662
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:37,960
yeah oorbank case, it's I don't know if it's a

1663
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,439
heavy parasite. It is likely a lot of oor banks

1664
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,239
are at least heami parasitic and it probably is a

1665
01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:47,720
heavy parasite on various yeah, grasses and forbes. But anyways,

1666
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:51,319
it looks cool. It's different than a lot of our plants.

1667
01:24:51,399 --> 01:24:54,239
But what it really needs is fire. It will not

1668
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:57,239
it will not flower without fire, and you're gonna have

1669
01:24:57,239 --> 01:24:59,439
a hard time finding it if the site hasn't burned

1670
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,399
in a while. If you look at the original distribution

1671
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:07,399
map of Schwalbia, it often it was pretty widespread in

1672
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:10,119
a number of counties all the way up into the northeast,

1673
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,800
and if you look at its current extant distribution now

1674
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,800
it's in far less counties. It's basically been wiped off

1675
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,119
the map because of fire suppression and habitat.

1676
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 1: Beautiful plant with those red flowers.

1677
01:25:22,399 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And really.

1678
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: The corollas are like they got like tricombes.

1679
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 2: And they're super like they're like a weird sort of

1680
01:25:30,199 --> 01:25:35,560
magenta purple red or something. But anyways, it's a really

1681
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:38,640
it's become a lot rarer than it would have been historically.

1682
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,800
But even historically it would have not persisted on the

1683
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,479
landscape without fire. They found it. Well, that's a little

1684
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:49,880
story about Shoulbia. They've refound it after like sixty years

1685
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:53,319
of being historical. I think in Massachusetts after a burn.

1686
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 1: Oh it may have.

1687
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,319
Speaker 2: Even been a little bit more than that. But they've

1688
01:25:56,359 --> 01:25:58,800
refound it in an area hadn't been seen in that long,

1689
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,159
so it can it can be rediscovered in a lot

1690
01:26:01,199 --> 01:26:01,640
of the South.

1691
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:04,560
Speaker 1: So fire was even calming up in Massachusetts.

1692
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it was everywhere. Fire scrub fire has

1693
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:13,439
been the dominant global disturbance for a lot of the

1694
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,079
recent history in Earth time. I mean, it is the

1695
01:26:17,159 --> 01:26:21,479
dominant disturbance. It's touched every well, I don't know about Antarctica,

1696
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,279
but it's touched every major continent. It is the dominant

1697
01:26:25,319 --> 01:26:28,520
force behind why so much of the trustrial part portions

1698
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,960
that we're playing, look the way they do. It's the

1699
01:26:31,079 --> 01:26:34,279
reason why we're having problems like the Palisades fires. Right,

1700
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,000
it's the reason we're seeing massive wildfire is now occurring

1701
01:26:38,119 --> 01:26:40,640
because if you build up that match box long enough

1702
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:42,159
and then spark it, it's gonna go up in flames.

1703
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 1: Right, You're gonna have fire either way. What do you want?

1704
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:46,600
You want you want low intensity fires that are periodic,

1705
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,319
or do you want fire suppression for a long time

1706
01:26:49,399 --> 01:26:52,520
and then a massive, you know, inferno that destroys homes, And.

1707
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 2: I know, Joey, you are you kind of like that

1708
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:56,039
idea of massive inferno.

1709
01:26:56,319 --> 01:26:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a catastrophist. That mean, it depends

1710
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,000
where we are, you know, like the for Worth area

1711
01:27:01,239 --> 01:27:04,439
needs some sort of catastrophe. Probably a large part of

1712
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,439
Texas does at this. But I'm just kidding. So so, Lily,

1713
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:08,600
you don't want to offend people.

1714
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 2: Lily had a funny story. Can you share this with

1715
01:27:11,079 --> 01:27:15,560
us about the shwaby you pictured years You took pictures

1716
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:16,039
of years ago.

1717
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:20,199
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I had never seen shwamby before. I

1718
01:27:20,279 --> 01:27:23,399
thought i'd never had and then I was going through photos,

1719
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:26,800
old photos of mine for some reason, and I saw

1720
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,560
that I saw it maybe like fifteen years ago, and

1721
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:31,600
had no idea what it was and I saw it

1722
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,600
and then completely forgot it. And yeah, that's my story.

1723
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 2: Wait wait can we hear that again. I'm just kid.

1724
01:27:39,039 --> 01:27:41,560
Speaker 1: How long did you see it fifteen years ago? And

1725
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:43,359
how did you were just going through photos and you

1726
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,479
were like, oh shit, yeah, yeah that's happened to me

1727
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:46,600
before me. That's pretty cool.

1728
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,239
Speaker 2: That is definitely. I mean, you look, if you don't

1729
01:27:49,239 --> 01:27:52,920
know anything about plant families, you wouldn't even like you

1730
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,680
wouldn't even be able to get it to Morobank Hasey.

1731
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:58,000
You'd have to understand that it's some sort of weird

1732
01:27:58,039 --> 01:28:02,279
oro bank because to mention something that rare that hasn't

1733
01:28:02,319 --> 01:28:05,159
been seen a lot in recent decades, yeah, few people.

1734
01:28:05,199 --> 01:28:06,640
Fewer people are gonna know what it looks like.

1735
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:12,359
Speaker 1: But but fire suppression directly attributed to its declining popular

1736
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:13,479
Where you saw.

1737
01:28:13,399 --> 01:28:17,399
Speaker 2: It and it just burned, yeah, it had it's it's

1738
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,159
it's another, it's another. It's another one of those plants

1739
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:23,199
too that when you see it on scorched earth, it

1740
01:28:23,359 --> 01:28:28,560
really pops. Like another great example, strongly pyrogenic plant species,

1741
01:28:29,199 --> 01:28:33,039
Calipogan multi florus. It only flowers about two weeks after fire.

1742
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:36,039
And so you're walking on this scorched earth and like

1743
01:28:36,119 --> 01:28:38,520
some scrubby flatwoods or flat wood pund flat woods, and

1744
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,399
you'll see this beautiful it's super super dark purpleish pink.

1745
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:44,640
It's really amazing. But it's like the only thing you

1746
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:46,960
see come up and it's the only thing flowering that

1747
01:28:47,039 --> 01:28:50,000
soon after fire. That's you know, again, one of those

1748
01:28:50,079 --> 01:28:54,720
dead ringers for pyrogenic Southeast is plant species only flowering

1749
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:58,199
after fire. Well, they probably need fire to persist. Why

1750
01:28:58,239 --> 01:28:59,840
would they be here if they didn't need it?

1751
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:04,159
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Yeah, it's it's crazy how people get severed

1752
01:29:04,199 --> 01:29:05,960
from the land that they live, you know, just from

1753
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,640
any knowledge or awareness of the land. That could be anywhere, right,

1754
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:12,119
That's that's what the Daily at least teaches. You could

1755
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:14,079
be You could be up in Connecticut, you could be

1756
01:29:14,199 --> 01:29:18,119
in fucking Kentucky, you could be in Florida, doesn't matter.

1757
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:20,039
You're in a highway ramp somewhere. It all looks the same.

1758
01:29:20,079 --> 01:29:23,840
Who gives a shit about regionality, about ecological context, about

1759
01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:27,279
millions of years spent evolving in a place. It's the

1760
01:29:27,399 --> 01:29:28,880
same as any other. It doesn't matter.

1761
01:29:29,119 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 2: Well, you know about the theories behind why plant blindness

1762
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:38,159
is more of a prevalent occurrence than animal blindness. There's

1763
01:29:38,239 --> 01:29:40,439
like theories about this shit. You can read papers. There's

1764
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,399
like I just learned about some of them. But there's like, okay,

1765
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,479
so if it's not within your eye height, so if

1766
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:52,039
it's like you know, wate tight or lower, less less relatability,

1767
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:54,800
if it's not it doesn't have eyes, if it's not

1768
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,319
like a moving thing. So there's all these theories on

1769
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:00,600
why plants have been really given the sho short shaft

1770
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:01,119
of attention.

1771
01:30:01,399 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's they're only going to be

1772
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,159
as prevalent as the culture that you're a part of

1773
01:30:05,319 --> 01:30:06,359
makes makes them.

1774
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they're the same people who are plant blind

1775
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,000
often are also animal blind. So it's not like, you know,

1776
01:30:11,199 --> 01:30:13,159
they're only but a lot of plants.

1777
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:15,640
Speaker 1: But a lot of it's horticultural atrocities. Right when plants

1778
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:18,319
are supposed to have variegated leaves or flower all the time,

1779
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,199
and that's what they're known for. If they're not medicinal

1780
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,319
or edible, right, then they need to be they damn

1781
01:30:24,359 --> 01:30:27,520
well better be seen as conventionally attractive. Which what does

1782
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,279
that mean, right, like for the lowest common denominator. Shit, Right,

1783
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,600
I've got a big flower and it's showy or it's

1784
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,159
got fucking very I fucking hate variegated. Shit, they fucking

1785
01:30:36,199 --> 01:30:36,840
hate verygated.

1786
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 2: I like seeing naturally variegated for modeling. A little modeling

1787
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,319
never hurt. But yeah, I think it's corny when it's

1788
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:45,319
like the garden section.

1789
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:46,319
Speaker 1: Man, it's so lame.

1790
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 3: The thing that irks me is because native plants, you

1791
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,399
can't patent them unless you do something to them. Right,

1792
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:58,239
and they make money off of these horticultural atrocities by

1793
01:30:58,319 --> 01:30:59,439
patenting them.

1794
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 1: And we're making cult of ours. You can do the

1795
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:02,800
same with natives.

1796
01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 3: So yeah, and that's what they do to all of

1797
01:31:05,039 --> 01:31:07,760
our natives that become popular. It's like that redbud that

1798
01:31:08,039 --> 01:31:12,520
is with the deep dark leaves, and they tend to

1799
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:16,399
not be very healthy or thriving plants when you select these,

1800
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:21,600
you know, highly selected cultivars that are just why can't

1801
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:23,680
we just have some natives and we need seed grown,

1802
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:27,039
we need that genetic diversity. That's so critically important because.

1803
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,399
Speaker 1: You're select because again that's just European gardening model, right,

1804
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:32,239
you're selecting for esthetic. That's all that matters, right, the

1805
01:31:32,319 --> 01:31:34,319
context ecology it is not important.

1806
01:31:34,319 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 2: Well, the thing too is if you get if you

1807
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,840
get a tree with a short bloom period, then I

1808
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:40,960
think some people think, well, if we have like a

1809
01:31:41,039 --> 01:31:44,159
showy foliage, it's show yer year round. My argument is,

1810
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:47,279
have enough diversity so you always have color going on

1811
01:31:47,399 --> 01:31:49,960
in your garden. And how can you accomplish that with

1812
01:31:50,319 --> 01:31:51,039
native plants.

1813
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,119
Speaker 1: Let's see for Illinois banning, it was.

1814
01:31:54,199 --> 01:31:56,439
Speaker 2: Just gonna say put on some motivational music after that or.

1815
01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 1: Illinois, Illinois banning Bradford pairs, which the thing, Oh.

1816
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, trees yep. Uh So wait, I was there was

1817
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:07,079
one other thing I was gonna mention.

1818
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:10,600
Speaker 1: Oh uh talking about pyrogenics.

1819
01:32:12,039 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 2: So pyrogenics is kind of like eugenics. Are you in

1820
01:32:15,039 --> 01:32:15,880
the eugenics at all?

1821
01:32:16,079 --> 01:32:18,159
Speaker 1: What is it new tropics? Is that? Like?

1822
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:18,560
Speaker 2: Uh?

1823
01:32:19,039 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of so I put in my youth

1824
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:21,159
through in it.

1825
01:32:21,319 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's kind of like that, except not without

1826
01:32:24,039 --> 01:32:26,479
the earther It's kind of like, yeah, supplements and it's

1827
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:32,039
apocalypse ready. So if you want to survive the apocalypse

1828
01:32:32,119 --> 01:32:33,600
and you also want to build muscle.

1829
01:32:33,359 --> 01:32:34,920
Speaker 1: Masks, I can't think. Yeah, I don't know what this

1830
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:37,319
guy's talk about it. I can't listen to this stuff. Mark, Well,

1831
01:32:37,359 --> 01:32:40,920
that's that's that you talk about all kind of goofy stuff.

1832
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:42,680
You don't know what are you talking about?

1833
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 2: Right?

1834
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:45,039
Speaker 1: And then we have eugenics gen x that's like what

1835
01:32:45,159 --> 01:32:46,960
you're doing to me when you don't wear a mask

1836
01:32:47,039 --> 01:32:48,960
and you like come in the same space that I'm.

1837
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:52,800
Speaker 2: At, Okay, And then there's pyrogenics. So so fire producing

1838
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:59,159
generating fire, and what produces what generates more fire than wiregrass?

1839
01:32:59,319 --> 01:33:02,560
Then draw biomass. So yeah, I mean we could talk.

1840
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: You could talk some species. That's why you were saying this,

1841
01:33:05,039 --> 01:33:07,479
why the risk that is strict? The right is such

1842
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:11,520
an important understory species in the long leaf sand hills.

1843
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,239
Speaker 2: I do have I do have a random botany thought too.

1844
01:33:14,279 --> 01:33:16,399
I just thought of so we've we've debated this a

1845
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:18,720
few times, and I'm curious what your thoughts are, and

1846
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,800
maybe Lily to us some thoughts. What the maximum number

1847
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,960
of species that a botanist can know? And I think

1848
01:33:26,039 --> 01:33:27,720
you can compare it to like the they do these

1849
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,319
face studies again, this other recent paper.

1850
01:33:30,399 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 1: I've mean like just be able to like verbally describe, well,

1851
01:33:35,079 --> 01:33:37,840
this so stems all that, or just like be aware

1852
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:38,640
of well.

1853
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Okay, if we take the human example, if we say,

1854
01:33:41,399 --> 01:33:43,279
how many humans can you think of? Or can you

1855
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:44,159
number my face?

1856
01:33:44,319 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 1: Right?

1857
01:33:45,199 --> 01:33:48,640
Speaker 2: And think about like I graduated with about three hundred people,

1858
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:51,199
and I can remember almost every single one of those

1859
01:33:51,239 --> 01:33:54,079
people and their face and maybe even what class I

1860
01:33:54,159 --> 01:33:54,359
went to.

1861
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:55,159
Speaker 1: Right, it's so long.

1862
01:33:55,359 --> 01:33:58,199
Speaker 2: Isn't that weird? But like it's you know, it's something

1863
01:33:58,199 --> 01:33:59,760
I think about the plants. Okay, I haven't seen this

1864
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:02,479
plan fifteen years or I've seen a kalmia before, but

1865
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:04,279
I've never seen buxifolia or you know, so there's all

1866
01:34:04,319 --> 01:34:05,439
these criteria right.

1867
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:07,640
Speaker 1: Right, genius, I get things down to genus a lot.

1868
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:10,000
I've stopped remembering species because I just don't have the

1869
01:34:10,039 --> 01:34:13,039
bandwidth for it. That's what ininad is for, what my

1870
01:34:13,399 --> 01:34:16,039
ad record is for. I can look stuff up, get

1871
01:34:16,079 --> 01:34:17,840
myself a refresher on I'm going through it.

1872
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:20,520
Speaker 2: That's right. But that's what the armchair botan is are for. Yeah,

1873
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:21,520
the arm chair.

1874
01:34:23,359 --> 01:34:24,520
Speaker 1: What do you mean the guys that's sitting in the

1875
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,279
offices and just we're there for what? How would they.

1876
01:34:27,159 --> 01:34:30,119
Speaker 2: Assugst Yeah, like those those guys that work for Baria

1877
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:30,560
and stuff.

1878
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:35,039
Speaker 1: Actually they're gonna come they flagulate you.

1879
01:34:35,399 --> 01:34:36,359
Speaker 2: What were you saying, Lily.

1880
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 3: I just want to encourage people to get to know

1881
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:42,479
their local flora because you don't have to know everything.

1882
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,960
You don't have to know everything, but falling in love

1883
01:34:46,039 --> 01:34:49,520
with your local flora and getting to know the names

1884
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,680
and the families that are common in your area.

1885
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:55,560
Speaker 1: He saw he saw a men's room. This is but

1886
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:58,600
he knows that well, okay, it's a public men's room.

1887
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:00,279
That's his public mensrum so sorry.

1888
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 2: I know it's weird that they put it right there

1889
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:04,079
on the highway, but we're gonna tur around so we

1890
01:35:04,079 --> 01:35:04,640
don't miss.

1891
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:09,520
Speaker 3: Return, all right. But it's like getting to know your

1892
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,439
it's a community, your neighbors, your friends, and then you

1893
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:14,439
know there you begin to know their names, you begin

1894
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,800
to become very familiar with them, and you can recognize

1895
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:19,800
them at all stages of their growth.

1896
01:35:20,359 --> 01:35:22,399
Speaker 1: That should be taught in grade school.

1897
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:26,119
Speaker 3: You should, yes, and you should know the ethnobotanical uses

1898
01:35:26,199 --> 01:35:29,079
for all your local native plants. Like I want people

1899
01:35:29,119 --> 01:35:32,560
to really fall in love with their native flora instead

1900
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:36,479
of salivating over the flora of somewhere else necessarily. I mean,

1901
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,800
it's cool to do that, but if you if you

1902
01:35:40,079 --> 01:35:42,279
focus on what is around you or what used to

1903
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:46,520
be around you, I think that's much more useful to

1904
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:49,600
the long term sustainability of the human space.