Speaker 1: Something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: I Welcome to the occult Rejects.
Speaker 1: Today we're diving into one of the most elusive and
Speaker 1: and debated mystery cults of the ancient world, Mythras and
Speaker 1: the shadowy Saturnian current running beneath it. Today's guest is
Speaker 1: Peter Mark Adams, author, translator and esoteric scholar, whose work
Speaker 1: has become essential essential reading for anyone serious about Western esotericism.
Speaker 1: His latest book, Ritual, An Epiphany in the Mysteries of
Speaker 1: Mythrus the Secret Cult of Saturn and Imperial Rome is
Speaker 1: a deep, meticulously researched rereading of Mythrism as a living
Speaker 1: mystery tradition. Drawing on a kind of iconography or fic metaphysics, theorgy,
Speaker 1: ritual theory, art history and initiation, Peter reconstructs the actual
Speaker 1: ritual life, visionary experiences and initiatories, and initiatory psychological psychology
Speaker 1: of Mythriic defots dvots. But before we get into this,
Speaker 1: I will introduce the other people on the show.
Speaker 2: And joining us.
Speaker 1: Today we got the Headless Giant and he is the
Speaker 1: one who actually found this guest. I am very very
Speaker 1: happy and appreciative of that. Thank you very much, Headless,
Speaker 1: and I why don't you let everybody know what's going on
Speaker 1: with you and the multiple amount of shows you were doing?
Speaker 2: Now you got it.
Speaker 4: You can find me on Twitter and on Instagram and
Speaker 4: on YouTube at the Headless Shy Podcast. And also if
Speaker 4: if you tune in later, me and Ethan are gonna
Speaker 4: be doing the trialogues with Ricardo and we're gonna bring
Speaker 4: our topics and have a good synthesis time. And on Mondays,
Speaker 4: I've got Alchemy Mondays with air us up and that's
Speaker 4: always a fun podcast as well. And if you have
Speaker 4: any kind of occult experiences or mystical happenings, you can
Speaker 4: send your experiences to my gmail at Healthshat podcast at
Speaker 4: gmail dot com and me and Nick read those on Thursdays,
Speaker 4: So definitely check that out as well. And we're going
Speaker 4: to be doing another in the series of rustic Gods
Speaker 4: with jewels at some point this week. Sometimes we're going
Speaker 4: to be talking about all sorts of phallic gods of
Speaker 4: the age world.
Speaker 5: It's really weird.
Speaker 2: Yep, surely will be. Yeah, definitely next week.
Speaker 1: I think we will also start, you know, we will
Speaker 1: start going through the infamous seven seven seven.
Speaker 2: Book by Alista Crowley. This should probably take us a
Speaker 2: few years to go through the whole book, but keep
Speaker 2: an eye out for that.
Speaker 1: If you're not too scared, you could come check out
Speaker 1: check out Crowley seven seven seven book at what it's
Speaker 1: really about. And if you're heavily into Jamachia or interested
Speaker 1: in Jamatria, this is for you, So please come check
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: And thank you very much, sir. I'm glad you made
Speaker 2: it again.
Speaker 1: I know again, like the weekends is your only time
Speaker 1: really with your family, and you do spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time with your cult reject so I do appreciate it.
Speaker 6: It's my it's my only time to stream too, so
Speaker 6: I appreciate you having me nick.
Speaker 3: Guys, this is my third occult Reject show this week.
Speaker 6: I am Jeles, the host of the Gray Pilled Podcast.
Speaker 6: Follow me on Twitter at gray pill Pod. Go to
Speaker 6: my Patreon. We do a lot of cool stuff over there,
Speaker 6: a lot of a lot of tears set up.
Speaker 3: You get a free sticker pack.
Speaker 6: You get exclusive Patreon content and it's a good way
Speaker 6: to support the show. But probably going live later today.
Speaker 6: I don't know what I'm doing yet, maybe Cryptid Watch
Speaker 6: or my part two on the Green Man, but I'll
Speaker 6: kind of let people know throughout the day, so y'all
Speaker 6: stay posted. But good morning, and it's nice to meet you, Peter.
Speaker 6: Look forward to hearing what you.
Speaker 2: Have to say.
Speaker 5: Yeah, nice to meet you too, Thanks very.
Speaker 2: Much, Jewles.
Speaker 1: And last, but not at least, before we get to
Speaker 1: the guests, we got my and Ethan Indigo.
Speaker 2: What is going on, sir?
Speaker 1: And how are you this one?
Speaker 7: Oh well, I cut off for a second there, sorry, Peter.
Speaker 7: Excellent to me and Shure Headlessen and Nick and Jewels.
Speaker 7: Always great to speak with you guys. Ethan Indigo, Smith, writer, philosopher,
Speaker 7: Taichi practitioner, easy to find on all the social media
Speaker 7: and I appreciate people who reach out and communicate. So again,
Speaker 7: excited for this, Peter.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 1: I know it's early on your end, so I really
Speaker 1: do appreciate you making it. And finally for the guest again, Peter,
Speaker 1: this is your first time on the show. Hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: have you on again in the future. But yeah, please
Speaker 1: for the fans who don't know who you are yet,
Speaker 1: please let them know, like what your deal is and
Speaker 1: mention your books and please anything you'd like to promote,
Speaker 1: let the people know about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, well, where to start. I've been connected
Speaker 5: with the shadow world of the Occolts since I was
Speaker 5: eight years old. Pretty well. I really got into energy
Speaker 5: work in my teens, working on systems like Shotokan, karate taichi,
Speaker 5: a lot of energy work, meditation. I'm like over seventy
Speaker 5: years old right now, so this is really a long
Speaker 5: period of time that we're talking about, but very late
Speaker 5: in life, pretty well, after I've finished with professional life,
Speaker 5: I started as a professional writer author, and that's when
Speaker 5: I really started digging into the subjects that have been
Speaker 5: so dear to my heart for decades, literally decades, and
Speaker 5: more specifically, the mis recults of antiquity are kind of
Speaker 5: specialty of mind, okay, from a ritual perspective, from ethnographic,
Speaker 5: cross cultural perspective, and most of my books kind of
Speaker 5: hit on that topic from one angle or another. So
Speaker 5: I've produced an analysis of the rights of Dionysus as
Speaker 5: we see them depicted in the frescoes of the Villa
Speaker 5: of the Mysteries in Pompeii. My most recent work is
Speaker 5: on the mithraic mysteries, and I guess we're going to
Speaker 5: talk about that more. But I've also penetrated a very
Speaker 5: obscure tarot deck called the Solar Busker HAROCKI, and this
Speaker 5: fifteenth century elite tarot deck turned out to have several
Speaker 5: layers of encoding, and the the deepest layer was a
Speaker 5: ritual sequence for invoking Kronos Saturn in the form of
Speaker 5: the draconian current Ammuno. And that itself was kind of
Speaker 5: my first major work back in twenty seventeen, a kind
Speaker 5: of shocked scholarly community and the tarot community, who have
Speaker 5: for the last ten years had a lot of problem
Speaker 5: digesting the content that I uncovered because it affects our
Speaker 5: perception of the Renaissance, of the development of taro, and
Speaker 5: also of the role of these kind of rights amongst
Speaker 5: the Renaissance elite families. So that was a fairly substantial
Speaker 5: piece of work. On top of that, I spent like
Speaker 5: twenty five thirty years in energy healing, which is like
Speaker 5: the other side of the coin from martial arts, so
Speaker 5: that you know, instead of learning how to inflict suffering,
Speaker 5: you learn how to alleviate it. I say, as a
Speaker 5: kind of professional breath worker and reiki practitioner using meridian
Speaker 5: based therapy techniques. I've done that professionally over like twenty
Speaker 5: odd years with my partner. So there's a book in
Speaker 5: which we've covered our most extraordinary cases, the cases that
Speaker 5: shone the most light on the nature of consciousness and reality.
Speaker 5: It's called the Power of the Healing Field. And that's
Speaker 5: within a tradition, So that's by and by what else?
Speaker 5: I've written a book with Christophe Ponce, who did a
Speaker 5: lot of work to uncover the hermetic side of the
Speaker 5: Taro de Marseille tradition cards and we did a book
Speaker 5: together with the Scarlet Imprint called Two Esoteric Tarots. So
Speaker 5: we kind of intertwine our thoughts about Solo Busker and
Speaker 5: the Taro de Marseille from an esoteric context in that book.
Speaker 5: And if I can think of any other books, I'll
Speaker 5: mention them. But that's enough for now.
Speaker 4: I guess well, it's interesting, Mark Peter I. I got
Speaker 4: first introduced to reiki from a martial arts class. I
Speaker 4: was taking hop keto and the instructor had what he
Speaker 4: called hurt him and helim classes where he would be
Speaker 4: teaching hop keto and then afterwards they would do the
Speaker 4: instruction into reiki, so it was very integrated into that
Speaker 4: whole system.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I consider them like two sides of the same
Speaker 5: coin basically, you know. Yeah, and a lot of people
Speaker 5: don't realize a sui reiki if that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 5: That lineage is a offshoot of ten Dia Buddhism, which
Speaker 5: is the Vajrayana tradition within Japan, so that you know,
Speaker 5: we're talking about channeling essentially a ray or a healing
Speaker 5: energy from a deity. And I think it's important to
Speaker 5: state that because a lot of people think reiki is
Speaker 5: just some kind of off the shelf common practice, and
Speaker 5: it's far more than that. It is, you know, literally
Speaker 5: a mediation of the highest evolutionary or spiritual evolutionary forces
Speaker 5: to whoever you end up treating.
Speaker 4: It's the accessibility that I think brings a lot of
Speaker 4: people into it is because you know, they don't have
Speaker 4: to know any of the esoteric to actually feel it.
Speaker 5: Sorry, guys, I'm I'm getting a freeze on the internet.
Speaker 5: I may miss.
Speaker 3: You may not hear what we're saying.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm good now, I'm good now.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, yeah, hell let's repeat yourself if you don't mind.
Speaker 5: So sorry saying something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the reiki tradition seems very accessible to people, so
Speaker 4: it's it's almost like, you know, it's perfect for Americans
Speaker 4: because you don't have to know any of these traditions,
Speaker 4: just do it right away, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which is good. But I should realize that
Speaker 5: they've got such tremendous power in their hands, and very
Speaker 5: often I think that realization is not there.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we got to do a reiki show with you sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say, there's so many so I had
Speaker 2: a go ahead for it.
Speaker 5: I was going to say one time I took a
Speaker 5: photograph of a group of recently graduating reiki teachers, and
Speaker 5: I took it with a flash simple digital camera, and
Speaker 5: the light flashed straight back into my eyes as though
Speaker 5: I had stood in front of a mirror and attempted
Speaker 5: to take a flash photograph. And so I looked at
Speaker 5: the camera and I thought, sorry, wrong with this, and
Speaker 5: I did it again. It happened again, and then like
Speaker 5: the third time, it took a photograph and I felt satisfied.
Speaker 5: When I checked these frames later, it was quite clear
Speaker 5: there was distinct auras of energy around the group, and
Speaker 5: they had like a three dimensionality to them, and they
Speaker 5: acted with a density which was invisible to everybody there,
Speaker 5: including me, fishing to reflect light as though they had
Speaker 5: a mirror mirroring effect. And I think that sequence of photographs,
Speaker 5: if we ever do anything, maybe we should put them
Speaker 5: up and let people see that. I'm not aware of
Speaker 5: any other photography that's actually caught the nature of this
Speaker 5: energy as a physical component of a group.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I will say, unfortunately, there is a lot of
Speaker 1: things like you even went into tarot, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I'd love to just waste this whole show just talking
Speaker 1: about your terror research and then even the reiki again.
Speaker 1: Why I was saying, hopefully we'll have you on again
Speaker 1: at some other point, because there seems like plenty of
Speaker 1: things that would fit the show or fit our interest
Speaker 1: to talk about with you. But I guess just unfortunately,
Speaker 1: going back to Mithrus, one thing I guess with your book,
Speaker 1: you do mention like a epiphany and ritual in the title. Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously you find that very important. Then if you put
Speaker 1: that in there, what is like the I guess the
Speaker 1: reasoning in your book. What is it that I guess
Speaker 1: you think that you're hitting on that's different, and that
Speaker 1: you find a you know, of interest in the ritual
Speaker 1: and the epiphany part instead of like theorgy and other things,
Speaker 1: theology things.
Speaker 5: Okay, So my take on the mystery or the mystery
Speaker 5: tradition is that it's always peculiar to a specific deity.
Speaker 5: You know, So before we.
Speaker 1: Have, before we go too far, I heard you say
Speaker 1: it before, and I think it's great. Could you go
Speaker 1: into what is a deity to you before maybe we
Speaker 1: even continue?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I take it as an evolutionary force driving
Speaker 5: the universe. So just as you take a kill a
Speaker 5: white light and drive it through a prism, you generate
Speaker 5: a set of different flavors, frequents, is whatever you want
Speaker 5: to call it, which kind of correspond to the major
Speaker 5: deities recognizable in human spiritual cultures, cross culturally, but they
Speaker 5: all resolve back to that white light. Okay, So that
Speaker 5: no matter which way you're traveling on the white light
Speaker 5: or on the colored beam, you're essentially on a continuum
Speaker 5: that I see as a teleological driver of the universe's
Speaker 5: spiritual unfolding, that's to say, the unfolding of consciousness, which
Speaker 5: I take to be the primary material of the universe.
Speaker 5: It a matter is kind of secondary, but they're totally interconnected.
Speaker 5: So that then you work with a deity is essentially
Speaker 5: a cooperative working. In other words, you're aligning yourself with
Speaker 5: a certain frequency of energy to do a certain type
Speaker 5: of work. It's not about your spiritual evolution or your
Speaker 5: spiritual experience. It's about the work that's accomplished through that
Speaker 5: mediation of a deity's energy. Okay. It's purposeful, it's teleological,
Speaker 5: it's unfolding. And you mentioned Thurgi just now with Hergie
Speaker 5: arose essentially because early Christianity closed down the mystery cults. Okay,
Speaker 5: so they had to find an alternative to the sanctuary
Speaker 5: based approach to initiation, and the alternative was Thurgy and
Speaker 5: you see it articulated in Iamblicus and Proclus and my
Speaker 5: book on the Higher Sophia traces that building's architecture and
Speaker 5: it's designed back to the mysteries of Alusis. Okay. That's
Speaker 5: that's another thing we could talk about one day. So
Speaker 5: that what we see is that the most primitive level
Speaker 5: or bedrock of spiritual experience from my perspective, is in
Speaker 5: the cults of possession. That's to say, voluntary possession, not
Speaker 5: involuntary possessions. Okay, and that's that's like the one universal
Speaker 5: spiritual constant in our upwards trajectory from the upper Paleolithic
Speaker 5: to today.
Speaker 2: Real, real, quick, just interrupt nine point five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, would you consider invoking when people are invoking in
Speaker 1: deity or whatever, that would be almost considered a like
Speaker 1: welcomed the possession.
Speaker 5: I mean, thirty is possession. But okay, it's it's not
Speaker 5: anything else. No, no, all right, that's important here though.
Speaker 5: What's important here you need to discard the notion that
Speaker 5: your ritual invocation causes a deity to possess you. That
Speaker 5: that's a nonsense, that's just getting there looking through the
Speaker 5: wrong end of the telescope. And Proclus Diadocus, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the colossal intellects of the fifth century was
Speaker 5: quite clear. He says, all about commensurability. Have you repaired
Speaker 5: your energy body sufficiently to act as a meeting place
Speaker 5: and into a place where the deity can touch? Have
Speaker 5: you aligned yourself with that deity's values sufficiently to make
Speaker 5: it a welcome and desirable connection, because the deity wants
Speaker 5: to reach out all the time. Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 5: It's not hidden. If you're not connecting with the deity,
Speaker 5: that's your fault. That's your problem, it's not the deity's problem, okay.
Speaker 5: And that embrace with the deity is purely okay. I'm
Speaker 5: aligned with the set of values and the ethical requirements
Speaker 5: to such a degree that that deity becomes a element
Speaker 5: in your day to day life and what you're attempting
Speaker 5: to achieve. The service, in other words, is the driver,
Speaker 5: not your aspiration for spiritual experience. I mean, that is
Speaker 5: not a that is not even a starter. In my worldview,
Speaker 5: nobody cares about your aspiration for spiritual experience. We care
Speaker 5: about what you do in life and what element of
Speaker 5: service you bring to the common mess that we're all
Speaker 5: in here.
Speaker 2: The common mess we're all in here.
Speaker 5: I like that because people often write to me and say,
Speaker 5: how can I connect with such and such a deity?
Speaker 5: And I don't know how to answer them, What the
Speaker 5: hell are you? What are you doing in life? Well,
Speaker 5: even somebody doing a low level of service serving in
Speaker 5: a soup kitchen is more connected to a deity than
Speaker 5: most people who are doing spiritual pilgrimage and stuff. It's
Speaker 5: all about community. It's all about the service and the
Speaker 5: rest of it is just a waste of time.
Speaker 1: Frankly, well, I will even say when I had my
Speaker 1: I guess magical experiences, at some point I had just
Speaker 1: for me, for myself. I'm not saying this is for
Speaker 1: everybody else, but for me. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you want to connect to God, God never left
Speaker 1: or you know, it didn't disappear. It says if I,
Speaker 1: for some reason guests turned my back on the source
Speaker 1: and decided to have my own solo experience, and I'm
Speaker 1: the one who walked away and traveled away. If I
Speaker 1: want to go back, I got to put the work
Speaker 1: in that. You know, it doesn't need to come to me.
Speaker 1: I'm the one who left it. So I kind of
Speaker 1: see a little bit of what you're saying and agree, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for that, for that whole that whole explanation.
Speaker 3: That was very well put, Peter. I'm going to clip
Speaker 3: that and put it up on my social media.
Speaker 2: So that was a mic drop. Man.
Speaker 5: It's probably gonna it's probably going to piss off a
Speaker 5: lot of good which.
Speaker 6: It'll make people think, right, because people aren't doing quite
Speaker 6: enough of that these days.
Speaker 7: So but yeah, that was the first explanation of deity
Speaker 7: with with the light, the white light and the rays.
Speaker 7: It made me think too that naturally you found reiki
Speaker 7: because of it has this almost verbal annunciation correspondence in
Speaker 7: the light ray and and the universal wisdom.
Speaker 5: Of the ray t if you will.
Speaker 7: So, yeah, that was a very beautiful explanation of deity.
Speaker 5: Excuse me, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: So, Peter, I guess uh, if you don't mind, Well,
Speaker 1: does anybody have any other questions? Before I asked him
Speaker 1: about the ritual aspect, I was gonna go into a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 3: Of a.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I took you off with the whole deity.
Speaker 2: That was a that was a question in itself.
Speaker 1: Sorry, but yeah, headless, head less ask him something that
Speaker 1: we'll get back, we'll get back.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Well, there's a there's a difference in soteriologies that I
Speaker 4: see blended together within the mythrist cult. Is you've got
Speaker 4: on one hand, you've got the sanguinary sew teiology coming
Speaker 4: through the bull sacrifice, right, and on the other you've
Speaker 4: got the epophonic right. You see the epophonic or you know,
Speaker 4: epiphany angle that you see associated with Apollo at Delphi
Speaker 4: and these other rituals where it's it's more about engaging
Speaker 4: with the deity as as opposed to making certain sacrifices.
Speaker 4: But you see both of them coming together within the
Speaker 4: mythrus cult. That is almost unique in some ways because
Speaker 4: it's experiencing the same sort of epiphonic thing in a
Speaker 4: sanguinary kind of environment under the ground, right, So it's
Speaker 4: it's sort of a melding of a lot of different
Speaker 4: forms of salvation protocols.
Speaker 5: Okay, let's dissect it a little. First of all, there
Speaker 5: was no bold sacrifice ever in the cult of Mythruss. Okay,
Speaker 5: if you take the so called toroctony, so called bull
Speaker 5: killing scene, actually it's nearly on the back of the
Speaker 5: bull is stabbing it in the shoulder, and you know
Speaker 5: you're going to be the sacrifice if you go and
Speaker 5: try that out. So it clearly isn't a depiction of
Speaker 5: a sacrifice. That's that's the first thing, Okay. What it
Speaker 5: is is the iconography can first be found in the
Speaker 5: epic of Gilgamesh around two thousand BCE, okay, where Anki
Speaker 5: Do and Gilgamesh conspire to kill the bull of Heaven
Speaker 5: who's creating havoc on earth. You know, sent by the Goddessa.
Speaker 5: So that's exactly how they do that, and that element
Speaker 5: becomes part of Mithrus's hero activity. He fights with some giants,
Speaker 5: he fights with the bull of Heaven, he carries it
Speaker 5: on his back, he feasts of it along with Helios. Okay,
Speaker 5: So what's being laid out is a traditional trajectory of
Speaker 5: the hero Okay. Why is that important is because it
Speaker 5: provides the ethical basis upon which Mithras arrests. Courage and
Speaker 5: good community with fellow initiates were like primary ethical values.
Speaker 5: So the mid cycle of Mithras as hero god spells
Speaker 5: that out in the iconography. Why because only about five
Speaker 5: percent of the entire Roman Empire were literate, okay, and
Speaker 5: even amongst that five percent, there's a very steep decline
Speaker 5: to the minuscule number of people who not only were
Speaker 5: literate enough to read metaphysics, but had access to texts
Speaker 5: and could do so. The iconography was everything. Everything you
Speaker 5: had to say had to be there. Okay. So the
Speaker 5: employment of this ancient I would date it back to
Speaker 5: the Neolithic frankly, you know, because if it's written down
Speaker 5: around two thousand BCE or already headed into the early
Speaker 5: Bronze Age, so it must have existed as an oral
Speaker 5: tradition long before there, and that takes you straight into
Speaker 5: the Calithic, and the Neolithic just gets lost in the
Speaker 5: mists of time. The other element is the nearly on
Speaker 5: the back of the bull and stabbing it. Well. The
Speaker 5: deity Mithras is attested in the Bronze Age in Sanskrit,
Speaker 5: in a vestern, in Hittite, and in Matani. In other words,
Speaker 5: the name the god Mitra originates in Proto Indo European. Okay.
Speaker 5: It's a root language, hypothetical root language, and again that
Speaker 5: takes you right back into the Neolithic somewhere. We don't
Speaker 5: know when the various Indo European languages emerged from that
Speaker 5: Proto Indo European, so we're looking at a very rich
Speaker 5: iconographic tradition. A Zoroastrianism only comes into play around six
Speaker 5: hundred BC. We're talking about eight thousand BC, okay, So
Speaker 5: the confusion of Mythrism as a Zoroastrian or or Persian
Speaker 5: cult doesn't see the is kind of blind to the
Speaker 5: depth that we're talking about, the time depth that we're
Speaker 5: talking about here. So what we have therefore is a
Speaker 5: deity who presides over agreements, compacts and that kind of things, right,
Speaker 5: So he is typically a deity of the ruling elite
Speaker 5: who are responsible for making those kind of agreements. And
Speaker 5: that's the context in which we see Mithraism emerge in
Speaker 5: Hellenistic Anatobia and then gets conveyed to Rome as part
Speaker 5: of the settlement of the Armenian issue because it was
Speaker 5: like split between the Sasanians and the Romans, and they
Speaker 5: agreed to put a common ruler in place, and as
Speaker 5: part of sealing that deal, the Sasanians brought the of
Speaker 5: Mithras to Nero's Rome and he was initiated in the
Speaker 5: court there, and because of that the court followed they
Speaker 5: also got initiated, and from appointments from the court to
Speaker 5: the empire, it spread naturally. So it was never part
Speaker 5: of Roman state religion, it was never a part of
Speaker 5: the system. Time every time, every single mithrea was personally financed, established, managed,
Speaker 5: and run out of people's private pockets. So there were
Speaker 5: like five hundred mithrea in Rome, and nobody knows how
Speaker 5: many in the empire actually must be running to one
Speaker 5: thousand and two thousand, but from Hadrian's Wall in Scotland
Speaker 5: to the deserts of Syria, from North Africa to the
Speaker 5: Rhine and Danube. It was a pervasive private cult activity.
Speaker 5: Although some of these mithra may have had no more
Speaker 5: than half a dozen guys. Okay, they tended to have
Speaker 5: the number of people that they could afford because everything
Speaker 5: was paid for from their pockets. They established the temple,
Speaker 5: they bought whatevers needed to furnish it. They bought the
Speaker 5: chicken or pigs, whatever they were going to have as
Speaker 5: their cult meal. And they had to. And also, you know,
Speaker 5: in those days, life was short and on the fringes
Speaker 5: of empire could be very short, and so they just
Speaker 5: had to recruit and run initiation to keep their numbers up. Okay,
Speaker 5: they never proselytized. Never. Mithraism was never a competitor to Christianity,
Speaker 5: which was a proselytizing mass religion. Mythraism was a private, secret,
Speaker 5: mystery cult. So they're like diametrically opposed to each other.
Speaker 5: Am I talking too much?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, it's great.
Speaker 5: Can we get around to your question, Nick, We're off
Speaker 5: on another tangent there right, they No.
Speaker 2: That is great.
Speaker 5: Where we're gone? You wanted to know about ritual and
Speaker 5: epiphany right, why they were so important because it's because
Speaker 5: it's a mystery cult. That's why. The mystery cult is
Speaker 5: about possession by the deity, the voluntary influx of divinity
Speaker 5: into the initiates and and and that's what it gifted.
Speaker 5: And whether it was the mysteries of a lusus where
Speaker 5: you just show up at the sanctuary and you would
Speaker 5: have this gift, or whether it's the private like Dionesian
Speaker 5: initiator going village to village, or whether it's a small
Speaker 5: private cult like mythism, they all vouchsafe the same extraordinary experience,
Speaker 5: as Walter Burkhard described it, the experience of becoming one
Speaker 5: with the deity. And I understand this mainly from mythraic iconography,
Speaker 5: but that sense of oneness is a return to the
Speaker 5: Golden age. And what they mean by that is non
Speaker 5: dual awareness, sudden unfolding like a flower of a state
Speaker 5: of nondewel awareness that forever changes your perspective on life
Speaker 5: and death because you can't sustain that state. It's it's impossible.
Speaker 5: Your your energetic system is just not robust enough to
Speaker 5: sustain such a level of consciousness. But having attained to
Speaker 5: it once it changes everything. So that's the answer to
Speaker 5: the question that you asked two questions ago.
Speaker 2: It was quite right the way it went the way
Speaker 2: it was supposed to go.
Speaker 5: So that's got there finally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did any of youse have any questions or
Speaker 2: anything else you want to add before we go further
Speaker 2: and stuff?
Speaker 7: I wonder in regards to the iconography of the bull
Speaker 7: and what's going on there, I wonder if there is
Speaker 7: a relationship to the celebrations in modernity of the running
Speaker 7: of the bulls and the the bull what is it
Speaker 7: the sorry I'm escaping my mind right now, but using
Speaker 7: the red cape to attract the.
Speaker 5: Bull and so on and so forth. Ut, yeah, bull fighting,
Speaker 5: bull fighting, bull baiting. Yeah, yeah, I mean what we're
Speaker 5: seeing there is the traces of a very archade bull
Speaker 5: cult that we can trace to say, chattl Hoyak in
Speaker 5: like six thousand BCE in Anatolia. So there's an element
Speaker 5: of sacrificing bulls, but also an element in which the
Speaker 5: animal is considered to be sacred is an embodiment of
Speaker 5: overflowing life, which is why Dionysius is often depicted or
Speaker 5: spoken of as a bull or the Pharaoh in Egypt
Speaker 5: was the bull of his mother. So this animal has
Speaker 5: enormous iconographic and physical appeal to civilizations from the Neolithic onwards.
Speaker 5: And you're right, I believe the traces of this bull
Speaker 5: cult are this braving exposure of yourself to the bull,
Speaker 5: which is not always fatal. Generally, it's fatal in bullfighting,
Speaker 5: but bullfighting is a very refined cultural element in a
Speaker 5: much wider, a much more dispersed generally Lellia bulls run
Speaker 5: through the town right and letting people like challenge it
Speaker 5: and then run away from it, and all of this
Speaker 5: kind of bull baiting behavior is really common around the Mediterranean.
Speaker 5: So and of course in in like Crete, in the
Speaker 5: Minoan civilization, we have the acrobats, you know, running towards
Speaker 5: and somersaulting over the back of the bull. So it's
Speaker 5: you know, enormously resonant figure in our cultural life for millennia. Well,
Speaker 5: p me, I definitely see those. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Me and Jules covered the taroctany angle coming from the
Speaker 4: Bugonia ritual which was practiced all around the Mediterranean, talking
Speaker 4: about spontaneous life being burst forth from the bull and
Speaker 4: Aristaeus and his creating the bee hives and now we
Speaker 4: have the Bougonia movie out now, which is like a
Speaker 4: reversal of the taroctany back then, where it was the
Speaker 4: bull who died for humanity. In the version of Bougonna
Speaker 4: that they're promoting now, it's humanity has to die for
Speaker 4: the bees, like.
Speaker 3: A nature complete bastard.
Speaker 5: The other kind of angle of this is, of course,
Speaker 5: the bull is Taurus, right, and the place where where
Speaker 5: he's stabbing it is is the Pliodes. Okay. And when
Speaker 5: we look at like cross culturally, Hunter gether as societies,
Speaker 5: like eighty ninety percent of them, they don't have all
Speaker 5: the constellations we have today, but almost every one of
Speaker 5: them recognizes the Pliodes. And I think one of the
Speaker 5: reasons is that you have this stream of media's emitting
Speaker 5: from that portion of the sky every year. So there's
Speaker 5: a genuine effusion which even today people often think of
Speaker 5: or talk about as a health or life enhancing a
Speaker 5: few usion of light from the sky. So again we're
Speaker 5: talking about incredibly privot. I mean, if it's hunter gatherer
Speaker 5: you're talking about when who knows how old that is,
Speaker 5: but I should be thinking upper Paleolithic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, where he's being stabbed. The bull is being stabbed.
Speaker 4: That's where the meteor shower is occurring. That's you know,
Speaker 4: that's like where the blood is coming from the Bull
Speaker 4: of Heaven. So it's incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5: That's it. So it's like so it's like an element
Speaker 5: of star lore, which we've largely forgotten today. Why that
Speaker 5: effusion of light was associated as a positive life enhancing
Speaker 5: feature of the night skies is a bit of a
Speaker 5: mystery to us today.
Speaker 2: Dab I have a I wanted to ask another question, Nay,
Speaker 2: woud I have anything before I go forward? Well, don't
Speaker 2: want to leave you guys out here. You sorry, go
Speaker 2: We're good, all right? Uh, Peter, you do, uh you
Speaker 2: do kind of uh you kind.
Speaker 1: Of place like a little bit of an emphasis on
Speaker 1: the orphic metaphysics within the mythriic symbolism.
Speaker 2: What is like, I guess like maybe.
Speaker 1: Some of the biggest absolutely one of the biggest signs
Speaker 1: of stuff like in that that uh in signs that
Speaker 1: orphism might be kind of like behind the rituals in
Speaker 1: a bit, if you don't mind talking about that, hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Mainly is what is orphism? I mean, essentially, it's
Speaker 5: the esoteric tradition within Hellenism. You know, within Hellenistic culture,
Speaker 5: I believe author orphism arose out of the direct experience
Speaker 5: of mystery initiation, you know, which which affirms them the
Speaker 5: eternal life of the soul. For want of a better
Speaker 5: way of phrasing it, that is certainly a distinct, uh
Speaker 5: phenomenal phenomenallygy of mystery initiation. People perceive themselves not as
Speaker 5: the persona, but as something larger that continues from life
Speaker 5: to life. They may even recover experiences, memories of past lives,
Speaker 5: and that kind of cements that belief system in place.
Speaker 5: They have a sense of a deity as a presiding
Speaker 5: presence in their lives. So that kind of is another
Speaker 5: element of orphism. The efficacy of the rituals and the
Speaker 5: ability of these rituals to cleanse what probably today we
Speaker 5: call karma, they would call it miasma. You know, it's
Speaker 5: the biographical, familial, and ancestral karma that we carry with
Speaker 5: us like so many anchors. So all of these elements
Speaker 5: are like common to orphism. You know, if you were
Speaker 5: going to boil Auphorism down to its most essential elements,
Speaker 5: you'd say, yeah, this sense of providential outreach of God's
Speaker 5: the ability to become possessed by and cleanse through the
Speaker 5: rituals of third ey and mystery initiation, and that cleansing
Speaker 5: of karma, which frees you from the bounds of fate
Speaker 5: or necessity and ank as they would have called it,
Speaker 5: and that opens up possibilities for your spiritual life which
Speaker 5: is otherwise encumbered, generally too encumbered to really blossom. And
Speaker 5: so for me, those kind of four points are like
Speaker 5: orphism in a nutshell, And all of those points are
Speaker 5: a director outgrowth of the experience that Auphism or the
Speaker 5: mystery cults opened up as a possibility to people. And
Speaker 5: so it's no surprise to see them appearing again and
Speaker 5: again in various guises, you know. And one of them
Speaker 5: is Mithism, which is straight out of the Hellenistic world.
Speaker 5: So of course Auphism is kind of its natural is
Speaker 5: the water it's swam in. It's kind of you know,
Speaker 5: any cult coming out of the Hellenistic world will have
Speaker 5: Auphism as its underlying belief system, but it's a belief
Speaker 5: system rooted in the first hand experience of the mystery
Speaker 5: cults and turgy.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see this question. I
Speaker 2: want to just tow us this in here real quick.
Speaker 1: Nick asked Peter if he believes the cult actually died out,
Speaker 1: what was just absorbed into certain families.
Speaker 5: Well, that brings us onto a topic I raised briefly
Speaker 5: in the introduction, which is I found distinct traces of
Speaker 5: ritual activity embedded in a fifteenth century solar busker traki okay.
Speaker 5: And it's a full ritual sequence embedded in those cards,
Speaker 5: and then layered over it our historical and literary narratives
Speaker 5: so that you know it. Really it took me four years,
Speaker 5: working day and night to decode the imagery. And it
Speaker 5: was just because I was so frustrated with it. I mean,
Speaker 5: since I was a teenage you know, I'd been working
Speaker 5: with Taro. I knew the imagery well. And I came
Speaker 5: across this solar busker shortly after it was purchased from
Speaker 5: the hands of been in private hands since the fifteenth century,
Speaker 5: and it was purchased by the Brera Gallery in Miland
Speaker 5: like eight hundred thousand euro or something, and of course
Speaker 5: they did an exhibition and catalog and everything. I looked
Speaker 5: at these cards and I, what the heck is this?
Speaker 5: The quality of artwork was so high. I mean, it
Speaker 5: was a master work. It had been printed from engraving plates,
Speaker 5: somebody had bought the copper cut it. And even so,
Speaker 5: there was no way a jobbing artist in the fifteenth
Speaker 5: century had the historical literary access to such a fine
Speaker 5: library of Latin Greek. Godness knows, it had to be
Speaker 5: a real intellectual mind to put this together, to encode
Speaker 5: this system. And I finally I traced the system back
Speaker 5: I actually which individuals were involved, all the way back
Speaker 5: to Constantinople in the fifteenth century, and from there back
Speaker 5: into the Hellenistic you know, into the fifth century. Actually
Speaker 5: system emerging with proclus and the survival of the Eleusinian
Speaker 5: mysteries after they were closed down at the end of
Speaker 5: the fourth century, so that tradition never died. Was transferred
Speaker 5: to the elite families of the Italian Renaissance, which is extraordinary,
Speaker 5: and it conveyed a powerful current saying the particular form
Speaker 5: of the energy they were interested in was the same
Speaker 5: energy that motivated Alexander the Great, because his myth cycle
Speaker 5: was that he was born of the intercourse of the
Speaker 5: god al Mun with his mother, and when he went
Speaker 5: to Egypt, he went down the Nile and went to Luxe,
Speaker 5: or temple in which the inner sanctum depicts the deity
Speaker 5: conceiving the Pharaoh through a human mother, and he went
Speaker 5: through a ritual process there, and then he went to
Speaker 5: the sea oasis in the desert where the priests of
Speaker 5: Amun at that oracle there confirmed him as the son
Speaker 5: of a Mun. And you'll see Alexander regularly wear as
Speaker 5: a helmet with the ramshorns on it, onnes of a Mundra.
Speaker 5: And so this was like a template and an ideal
Speaker 5: for the Italian Renaissance elite. If it's good enough for Alexander,
Speaker 5: and given what he could achieve, it's good enough for
Speaker 5: us as princes, as Renaissance princes who spent at least
Speaker 5: half the year on horseback campaigning. I mean, this was
Speaker 5: the idea of these Renaissance princes were just you know
Speaker 5: Dila Tante's is. You know, they learned how to use
Speaker 5: every weapon from childhood onwards. They rode in joists, they
Speaker 5: hunted on foot and on horseback, and every year they
Speaker 5: put their army together and led it on successful campaigns
Speaker 5: in Europe. And that's how they made their money as
Speaker 5: condottieri mercenary soldiers. They were hard men. So the whole
Speaker 5: cultures of Alexander is just like you know, just fits
Speaker 5: them so well. And that's that's what we have in
Speaker 5: the Solar Buskers is direct evidence for the continuity of
Speaker 5: this cult from well, it's generally sort of started with
Speaker 5: the hat Chepsut, which will be about one four hundred BCE,
Speaker 5: but quite possibly it existed long before her. And then
Speaker 5: I'm an Hotep the third, right through Ramsey's the second.
Speaker 5: These were most of them were warriors, you know, and
Speaker 5: there we have the same stuff. You know. The the
Speaker 5: conception from a mun being depicted in Renaissance fifteenth century
Speaker 5: noble Taraki was absolutely extraordinary. And then that Taraki that
Speaker 5: that said, the cards were kept in private hands until
Speaker 5: they were bought in twenty twelve. I think the first
Speaker 5: time the cards came to public notice was just like
Speaker 5: you know, so that's an extraordinary tale in itself, the
Speaker 5: secret occult power of the Renaissance elite families. Of course,
Speaker 5: the death Stay family of Ferrara, who designed the deck
Speaker 5: had it designed our our a cadet branch of the
Speaker 5: House of Este, which is one of the Europe's.
Speaker 3: Oldest black.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this this goes into the banking.
Speaker 5: It was designed. Yeah, well, it was designed for a
Speaker 5: Venetian family. It was a gift designed for Maren Sonudo. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so Maren Sanudo was the scion of of the Sanudo
Speaker 5: and Venier families, two of the leading patrician families of Venice.
Speaker 3: Okay, interesting, it's a tale for another day, I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's something that I have to look into.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: And you said that Mithras was represented by the ram.
Speaker 6: You said, no, no, you said that I'm in ra'm
Speaker 6: raw And so would that have any kind of correlation
Speaker 6: to Aries or Mars, like just the archetype.
Speaker 5: It's it's it's it's hard to say. It isn't connected,
Speaker 5: isn't it. It's you know, it's so march you know,
Speaker 5: the ram being but also yeah, but also like the
Speaker 5: Mithraic imagery is also encoded in the Solo Busca Okay, okay,
Speaker 5: you know, so that they have that kind of insight
Speaker 5: into the connectivity on a very occult level. And you know,
Speaker 5: when you when you think about the lineage of these families,
Speaker 5: they you know, there was no historiography that we could
Speaker 5: recognize before, like the nineteenth century didn't exist. And what
Speaker 5: I mean by that is history as we understand it
Speaker 5: is like a set of economic, political, social data from
Speaker 5: which we can frame certain hypotheses test them. But that
Speaker 5: didn't exist at least until the nineteenth century. Up till then,
Speaker 5: history was exemplary. There were tales that were told that
Speaker 5: taught certain lessons, okay, and one of the primary lessons
Speaker 5: for the Italian elite was that they originated from Troy. Okay,
Speaker 5: So you have this, This is all in Virgil Zeniad,
Speaker 5: you know, and the survivors of true Roy traveled across
Speaker 5: the Mediterranean. They went to Carthage and then they went
Speaker 5: to Rome. So all the Italian elague claimed this line
Speaker 5: of descent. But as they would have also known, the
Speaker 5: region around Troy was famously the area in which the
Speaker 5: offspring of Nimrod lived. Okay, So and Nimrod were back
Speaker 5: to the descent from the angels, the fallen so called
Speaker 5: fallen angels my sag ation with human women. And so
Speaker 5: for the Renaissance elite, there's also this this dynamic of
Speaker 5: an other than human uh component so to speak.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you had brought up the epic of uh
Speaker 6: Gilgamesh earlier, and he's kind of the same character that.
Speaker 3: That oh yeah, yeah, yeah, as Nimrod, yeah yeah.
Speaker 5: And the other thing is, of course they'd surfaced like
Speaker 5: the Hermitica in the fifteenth century. You know, there was
Speaker 5: a lot of stuff in that about human beings being
Speaker 5: more than purely human being partly daymonic, you know, so
Speaker 5: they had a lot of i say, without a historiography.
Speaker 5: Their view of history was very static. It was just
Speaker 5: exemplary figures like this drawn from literature. So the line
Speaker 5: between fact and fiction was very very thin, if non existent,
Speaker 5: to be honest. Anyway, this is by the bye, we're
Speaker 5: a long way from mythrust right now.
Speaker 2: Another thing I wanted to ask, to what extent do
Speaker 2: you think the mythric rights were about like literal ascent
Speaker 2: through the planetary spheres versus more of like symbolic internal translationion.
Speaker 5: Okay, so there's there's no question that the grades were
Speaker 5: based on seven planets, it's clear. The problem. The problem
Speaker 5: is this, it's kind of twofold. Basically, the whole point
Speaker 5: of a mystery initiation is that you bypass all the
Speaker 5: celestial spheres and you go directly to the hyper celestial
Speaker 5: encounter with the deity. So it makes no sense to
Speaker 5: get initiated into the moon, into Venus, into Mercury, into Mars.
Speaker 5: It doesn't make any sense. That's you know, that's a
Speaker 5: kind of academic speak because they're not thinking about what
Speaker 5: a mystery cult is. And I say, the whole point
Speaker 5: of a mystery cult is to bypass the celestial spheres
Speaker 5: and go directly to an encounter with the demiurge okay,
Speaker 5: which is you know, Chronos basically in the metoric mysteries,
Speaker 5: but Kronos as an emblem of the Golden Age and
Speaker 5: therefore a time of perfect peace, harmony, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 5: And what they're like signaling to us is a state
Speaker 5: of nondual awareness, which is a common mystical experience in
Speaker 5: every time and every culture. So why then do they
Speaker 5: have the seven grades, is the question. Because they were
Speaker 5: self sustaining little mithraic units, and to get people to
Speaker 5: the state, get their energy body to the state where
Speaker 5: they could have this encounter with the deity, they needed
Speaker 5: to have a process in place. Universally in the Hellenistic
Speaker 5: world there were two steps, cleansing by water and cleansing
Speaker 5: by fire. Literally, so on top of that, they added
Speaker 5: on a first state, which is induction into the culting
Speaker 5: that wouldn't have happened in a sanctuary. You just turn
Speaker 5: up at a sanctuary. But since you're running this little
Speaker 5: microcosmic initiatory tradition yourself, you need to induce people into it.
Speaker 5: They need to take an oath, they need to swear
Speaker 5: an oath, better to say, and then you can start
Speaker 5: the process of purification. You're repairing the energy body. You
Speaker 5: have to bring the energy body to a point where
Speaker 5: it's capable of touching divinity. And so they like the
Speaker 5: first three grades are the attempt to do that. The
Speaker 5: other four grades are you know, starting with the Lions.
Speaker 5: The Lions are purely initiatory grade. In other words, they're
Speaker 5: sacredotal members of the cult. They're not the rank and file,
Speaker 5: and so typically only the most dedicated purified individuals would
Speaker 5: even aspire to that because the responsibility on them to
Speaker 5: maintain an ongoing and living relationship with the deity day
Speaker 5: after day is so high, makes it makes so many
Speaker 5: demands of your time and energy. So said, and also
Speaker 5: you have to have a couple of guys who actually
Speaker 5: administer this cult, you know, check that the mitraeum is
Speaker 5: there that they've got supplies in that everyone is going
Speaker 5: to turn up. All the admin of running a small
Speaker 5: club has to take place amongst the four top level grades. So,
Speaker 5: in fact, this idea was enunciated by the great term
Speaker 5: mithres manpra Klaus, you know, probably in the seventies or
Speaker 5: so he had speculated, and in fact it the grades
Speaker 5: were separated into two groups. But when I examined the
Speaker 5: actual hell sequence of initiation into Hellenistic mysteries, it was
Speaker 5: clear to me that you need to have these stages,
Speaker 5: and that once you have the encounter with the deity,
Speaker 5: there's no further revelation. Okay, having encountered nondual awareness, there's
Speaker 5: nowhere else to go, so to speak. That's it. You're there.
Speaker 5: So if you have an aspiration towards the priesthood, then
Speaker 5: you would move on into the other grades. But the
Speaker 5: number of people, I guess, given that you're a soldier
Speaker 5: on the front lines of the empire, would be very
Speaker 5: few and far between. Also, you would have to have
Speaker 5: the means to become administrator of a cult like this,
Speaker 5: you know, and if you're on a soldier's salary or whatever.
Speaker 5: Civil seven salaries, it's probably out of reach. I say,
Speaker 5: everything has to be paid for, and I know, is
Speaker 5: that help answer your question? But I'd say the main
Speaker 5: thing is that there's no sense in seven grades as
Speaker 5: initiatory grades for everyone to go through, because that's not
Speaker 5: what the mystery culture does. It's amazing the initiation into
Speaker 5: the Spirit of Lattern, right, It's amazing to me the
Speaker 5: continuity between the Mythrate.
Speaker 4: Cult and the the organization within the Freemasons. Right, So
Speaker 4: you've got it sounds like this order of Lions are
Speaker 4: protecting the circle, right, they would be like the Tylers.
Speaker 4: And then you've got these these other positions that seem
Speaker 4: to be adopted straight from the Mithraic cults just sort
Speaker 4: of passed right on into free Masonic rituals as well
Speaker 4: as the three grades as the Purification grades, the Blue
Speaker 4: Lodge as well. So you've got you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of parallels.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think probably the archetypal nature of these structures
Speaker 5: would tend to repeat. You know, I say it was
Speaker 5: universal in the Hellenistic mystery cults, irrespective of which deity
Speaker 5: they were. For that you would need to have this
Speaker 5: kind of progression that the higher grades are limited to
Speaker 5: a very small number of people who aspire to priesthood
Speaker 5: or to administrative roles. I guess human nature hasn't changed
Speaker 5: that much.
Speaker 1: You know What's what's interesting, Like you, I guess you're
Speaker 1: saying human nature hasn't changed that much. It's something I
Speaker 1: was just thinking about now, and it's like, not really
Speaker 1: that big of a deal, but I do find it
Speaker 1: interesting how it's something that is uh when it comes
Speaker 1: you say, cleansing by fire or cleansing by water. You know,
Speaker 1: even in my own ritual work or even doing the
Speaker 1: Gnostic Mass and the Oto, you cleanse by water and
Speaker 1: then you do cleanse by fire. It's interesting how like
Speaker 1: that idea, no matter like what context maybe you're working,
Speaker 1: that is something that is like a thread throughout so
Speaker 1: much ritual work. Is that all cleansing by fire on water,
Speaker 1: No matter what you're doing, that's always seems to be
Speaker 1: involved regardless, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see it with baptism.
Speaker 5: You think it's it's.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I think there's a lag that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think it's important though, to distinguish. Yeah, I think
Speaker 5: it's important to distinguish between the physical activities the efficacious
Speaker 5: force that's being invoked something or evoked.
Speaker 2: Something I do want.
Speaker 1: To ask situations something I do want to ask you
Speaker 1: real quick, Peter, before I forget. And it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a It might be a little bit of
Speaker 1: a weird question when it comes to initiations or rituals.
Speaker 1: I do, from my own experience from going through initiations
Speaker 1: in the Oto, and my own experience from using the hexagram,
Speaker 1: pentagram rituals, and even looking at Crowley's Knox formula, I
Speaker 1: do sometimes wonder if these things are even showing symbolism
Speaker 1: of actual changes within the body itself. I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: you what any of these mythric rituals look like. But
Speaker 1: when you have looked at these things, have you ever
Speaker 1: wondered if it's actually like showing anything tied to physiology.
Speaker 2: I know that might be hard to.
Speaker 1: It like, I'll explain it this way, maybe so you
Speaker 1: get a better idea of what I'm saying. I do
Speaker 1: think that this may sound crazy looking at the lesser
Speaker 1: Banished ritual, the pentagram, and even the hexagram and Crowley's
Speaker 1: NOx formal. Again, I do think what you might be
Speaker 1: looking at is to change a change that's going on
Speaker 1: inside of the eyeball that determines how much light you're
Speaker 1: actually pulling in. I know that might sound wild and
Speaker 1: off the wall, but I do think it might actually
Speaker 1: be showing you physical changes with inside your inside your body.
Speaker 1: Have you ever thought that or seen anything like that
Speaker 1: with this stuff, or has that even ever come up
Speaker 1: in your mind?
Speaker 2: You may never even thought of that.
Speaker 5: Well, for me, the physical activity of initiation is merely
Speaker 5: there's almost incidental to the process that's going on. It's
Speaker 5: like the ten percent or whatever is off the iceberg
Speaker 5: is the ritual activity. The iceberg itself is wholly administered
Speaker 5: by the spirits deities that are evoked to conduct that activity. Okay,
Speaker 5: So of course that affects your energy body, but you're
Speaker 5: you know this, This this kind of possession cult bedrock
Speaker 5: upon which most of our spirituality rests, extends to the
Speaker 5: ritual actions itself. So as soon as you form an
Speaker 5: intense ritual space, you have a collapse of temporal let's say,
Speaker 5: the spatial and temporal vectors that structure our day to
Speaker 5: day reality collapse. Okay, So you have very intense psycho
Speaker 5: energetic effects generated. Okay, and they are of such an
Speaker 5: intensity that they'll give rise to visionary experiences, to expansion
Speaker 5: of awareness. So there's a huge, so to speak, spectrum
Speaker 5: between undertaking ritual actions, which the most extreme extent are
Speaker 5: purely theatrical, like in eyes were shut, right, they're making
Speaker 5: a movie all the way to a ritual that is
Speaker 5: so powerful it triggers spontaneous Condolini. That's to say, the
Speaker 5: ritual space becomes so dense it triggers Condolini and fundamental
Speaker 5: shifts in the quality and depth of awareness.
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
Speaker 5: And the spectrum is spectrum is driven by the presence
Speaker 5: that are invoked into that. It's not our energy. Our
Speaker 5: energy generally is not powerful enough to do that. Okay,
Speaker 5: But we enter into a continuum with like a stream
Speaker 5: of consciousness which is merged with other dimensional entities and
Speaker 5: beings for want of a better expression, and that's where
Speaker 5: the motivation, the motive power of change within a ritual
Speaker 5: process takes place. There's just one way of viewing it.
Speaker 5: I'm not preaching this. My perception is this, Okay, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I was going to say everyone will agree with it.
Speaker 1: Well, even from my own experience with initiations. I was
Speaker 1: even told by somebody who facilitated the initiation after the
Speaker 1: fact that like at times, just from my experience, when
Speaker 1: you might be tapped or touched or parts of your
Speaker 1: body might be I guess whatever involved it could literally
Speaker 1: be to get that like I was tapped at the
Speaker 1: waiste at one point that what I was told I
Speaker 1: was to activate the chakra there or to awaken it
Speaker 1: or to get it like understanding, like it's time to
Speaker 1: pay attention to what's going on. So like even what
Speaker 1: you just said right now, like that that even resonates
Speaker 1: with me, you know, just real quick to make sense
Speaker 1: of it of like what I was trying to explain before,
Speaker 1: and not to keep going on about it, but like
Speaker 1: just real quick, like you even said in like in
Speaker 1: the whole act and stuff. Even in the NOx formula
Speaker 1: when Crowley acts like he's grabbing the nipple for the
Speaker 1: child to feed, if people were to look into the
Speaker 1: science between the nipple and the pineal gland and the child,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of weird shit going on. The
Speaker 1: child's actually going to find out from the mother's you know,
Speaker 1: stuff coming from her paneal gland into the milk and
Speaker 1: tell the child where it is, what time it is,
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So it's just like, you know, is
Speaker 1: could that be being represented in his work.
Speaker 2: And people just don't see it.
Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to get at with you, like,
Speaker 1: could there be things in there that may actually, in
Speaker 1: a weird way tied to science. I could be completely
Speaker 1: wrong about that whole thing, but I did. But if
Speaker 1: there is a weird there is a weird connection with
Speaker 1: the pineal gland and the child.
Speaker 4: Especially the hand of Sabasians.
Speaker 5: All right, corn but in how sorry with the head
Speaker 5: of Saba is getting.
Speaker 1: Like, oh yeah, just let them, let them, let them
Speaker 1: just answer what I just said.
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal.
Speaker 4: Okay, what the head of Sebasio specifically say one of
Speaker 4: my favorite glad at the thumb.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry. I mean, for me, this psychic biology doesn't
Speaker 5: doesn't resonate.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, No, that's that's okay. Yeah, I was
Speaker 2: an expectation.
Speaker 5: It can be, it can be implicated or not. But
Speaker 5: for for ritual to be efficacious, it has to it
Speaker 5: has to be in a stream of other than other
Speaker 5: worldly consciousness. I mean, it's seldom just our own energy.
Speaker 5: I mean when I study, for instance, Crowley's text of
Speaker 5: a magical retreat in Paris and John Saint John. You
Speaker 5: probably know that one. He spends a lot of time
Speaker 5: to cultivate condolini as the kind of platform for what
Speaker 5: he's trying to achieve.
Speaker 2: No, I get that.
Speaker 1: I think there would be a lot of This is
Speaker 1: my opinion. I think there's a lot going inside your
Speaker 1: body when that happens. That's the only reason why I
Speaker 1: look at that stuff as I do think in order
Speaker 1: to have that experience, there is certain changes within oneself.
Speaker 1: But again, I was just asking you just in case
Speaker 1: you happen to look at it that way. Most people don't,
Speaker 1: so I mean, I wasn't expecting much of a different
Speaker 1: answer than you give me.
Speaker 2: No, it's quite all right.
Speaker 5: I look at it from the point of view of
Speaker 5: a deity interacting with us. I look at it from
Speaker 5: the point of view of a deity interacting with us,
Speaker 5: so for instance, in the Vagarayana tradition, and I've experienced
Speaker 5: this myself. Doesn't matter if there's ten thousand people there, well,
Speaker 5: what your state of preparation is. When the initiation is given,
Speaker 5: it affects everyone simultaneously.
Speaker 2: I believe that.
Speaker 5: Okay, we were watching straight from the deity.
Speaker 4: We were watching The Serpent and the Rainbow on Friday
Speaker 4: night that was talking all about possession and voodoo, and
Speaker 4: I was thinking about the connection to Martinism as well,
Speaker 4: which is a direct sort of offshoot of the Elucidian
Speaker 4: style mysteries that carried on in Europe. So you've got
Speaker 4: sort of a direct linkage between this old way of
Speaker 4: being possessed by a deity, and then as it transferred
Speaker 4: over to the new world, new world, you get new
Speaker 4: expressions in terms of voodoo and hoodoo ceremonies which use
Speaker 4: a lot of the same principles that they were using
Speaker 4: in ancient Greece. Divine madness.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like bedrock, you know. It's
Speaker 5: it's that sense of proximity to a deity that empowers
Speaker 5: everything else, because as embodied beings, we don't have access
Speaker 5: to those powers in and of ourselves. Condolini is not
Speaker 5: a personal possession. For instance, it's not a private possession.
Speaker 5: It's not my condolini. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: I like that. Another question I did have for you
Speaker 2: kind of get.
Speaker 5: So this erasure of the persona, Yeah, the erasure, erasure
Speaker 5: of the persona is what I'm trying to get at
Speaker 5: and unfort in modern society, the persona is so prominent,
Speaker 5: you know, so that that is a social problem with spirituality,
Speaker 5: love and spirituality like a glove puppet.
Speaker 7: Oh, it's a very Dallast thought, right, Like we really
Speaker 7: just sometimes have to get out of our own way.
Speaker 7: There is a Chi Gung practice where they back to
Speaker 7: the fire and the water where they will focus on
Speaker 7: water practice through like steam and freezing our own in
Speaker 7: a mental imagination process, meditation practice or with fire kind
Speaker 7: of burning away the up to s or extra.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to mention that it's.
Speaker 7: It's and and the Dallists kind of have a similar
Speaker 7: idea to the year put putting forth, where we have
Speaker 7: to get in alignment with the dow before we can
Speaker 7: receive this energy that's beyond us and outside us to
Speaker 7: really connect and you know, engage.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like commensurability again in the in the old
Speaker 5: mystery cults, your energy body has to be a certain
Speaker 5: state of repair to allow it to function as intermediary.
Speaker 7: That I wonder Peter, with your understanding of these mystery
Speaker 7: cults and methros and also your you being an internal
Speaker 7: arts practitioner. I wonder if there's some kind of fusion
Speaker 7: you've been able to find in movement or maybe a
Speaker 7: mental idea that you might share with people to stabilize
Speaker 7: their balanced, their their energies.
Speaker 5: You know, service that that's the that's the that's the
Speaker 5: master key. That's what service you provide. So that immediately resolves,
Speaker 5: that immediately resolves all wrinkles, all stresses.
Speaker 4: When it comes to mystery cults, I usually got to
Speaker 4: bring up the Golden Ass and so at the very end,
Speaker 4: he's so he's saved by the cult of Isis, and
Speaker 4: so he becomes humid again because of that, and he
Speaker 4: dedicates his life to serving everybody else after that time period,
Speaker 4: so he becomes a lawyer. Through the mystery schools, he
Speaker 4: makes connections, he becomes a lawyer, and he starts serving
Speaker 4: the poor. Which is really interesting that that's the moral
Speaker 4: of the story, is that you've got to get out
Speaker 4: of your way, You've got to get out of your
Speaker 4: head and start serving other people because that's what that
Speaker 4: God wants you to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like in a nutshell. Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1: Peter, if you don't mind me asking her what to
Speaker 1: get a little bit back to kind of a some
Speaker 1: more normal questions.
Speaker 2: Uh, you do kind of.
Speaker 1: I mean obviously you know mentioned the secret culture Saturn.
Speaker 1: Your book strongly like emphasizes Chronos. I know we kind
Speaker 1: of like touched on Saturn and stuff, But uh, how
Speaker 1: do you like kind of see Saturn like really functioning
Speaker 1: within mythriism, like as a metaphor principle or a god
Speaker 1: of binding or as a gatekeeper or all of them. Like,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind maybe giving a little bit more
Speaker 1: in depth idea of what you're of Chronos or Saturn
Speaker 1: is with mythriism.
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course they You know, when we talk about
Speaker 5: Saturn in this context, we're not talking about the planet
Speaker 5: tree Saturn. We're talking about the demiursion whatever, you know. Form.
Speaker 5: There's not much to say because at the apex of
Speaker 5: this culture, of its spiritual experience, you know, to say,
Speaker 5: is non dual awareness. It's it's the real gift when
Speaker 5: you experienced reality as though you wear a god for
Speaker 5: a brief period of time, and that's the ultimate cult compass.
Speaker 5: Would you know that.
Speaker 1: Would you consider having having that experience the same as
Speaker 1: like platinus henosis?
Speaker 5: Say again, please, Nick, would you like say.
Speaker 1: Like maybe having that experience would be like I guess
Speaker 1: the same as like Platinus's hernosis or maybe other people
Speaker 1: calling it the crossing the abyss? Is that what do
Speaker 1: you think like the outcome of this would be, it's
Speaker 1: having like union with God.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like yes, yeah, because that state is a
Speaker 5: resolution of all conflicts and contradictions. That's true, Okay, everything,
Speaker 5: all of a sudden is what it is, and that
Speaker 5: is sufficient onto itself. So you know, the persona is
Speaker 5: so far behind in this process. Now that you're looking
Speaker 5: at like like some kind of star being, You're looking
Speaker 5: at reality as though you had infinite time and space.
Speaker 5: It changes everything. Yes, but of course we can't sustain that,
Speaker 5: you know, level of awareness. We have to drop back
Speaker 5: into ourselves and back into our own karmas society. You
Speaker 5: gotta go, You gotta so that that's on, you know,
Speaker 5: that's unchanging. It's like you know, before Enlightenment, after enlightenment,
Speaker 5: you know, it's the same woods you have to chop,
Speaker 5: same water you have to tote, But after Enlightenment it
Speaker 5: is all in a very different framing. It's just the
Speaker 5: absolute priority to be of service.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's be an experience, because.
Speaker 1: Do you think there would be an experience that would
Speaker 1: like change somebody forever, Like you know, when you go
Speaker 1: from like a cucumber to a pickle and you can
Speaker 1: never go back.
Speaker 5: Absolutely yeah, basically basically nice. I mean, you can fall
Speaker 5: any time you like. You know, a lot of people
Speaker 5: who take on spiritual let's say education and mentorship is
Speaker 5: full time task, accumulate fresh commerce from it. You know,
Speaker 5: it's an incredibly demanding thing, and they go wrong. There's
Speaker 5: a lot of ways to go wrong. You know, it's
Speaker 5: been so many abusive gurus, you know, so we have
Speaker 5: to we have to see this. This process is a
Speaker 5: multi life process. We're not talking about you know, what
Speaker 5: you're going to do in the next ten years, next
Speaker 5: twelve years, how about the next ten lifetimes where you're
Speaker 5: going to be.
Speaker 2: That is a good point.
Speaker 5: So a lot of it, I think is trying to
Speaker 5: set the stage for successive incarnations, you know, which is
Speaker 5: why kind of dying consciously can be so important. You know,
Speaker 5: the recovery of memory of past lives, the cleansing of
Speaker 5: deep karma. You know this this is the graft, the
Speaker 5: real graft. It's spread out over many lifetimes, many incarnations
Speaker 5: in many different forms, at least in my view.
Speaker 1: Do you think some of these initiations or the experience
Speaker 1: of it could maybe even tired to like the experience
Speaker 1: to like, you know, through shamanism, they kind of like
Speaker 1: maybe pushing yourself almost to an NDE experience.
Speaker 2: That may sound weird. I don't know how to how
Speaker 2: else ask?
Speaker 5: I mean, once you, once you activate fundamental energies in
Speaker 5: your psycho energetic system, it's going to lead to all
Speaker 5: kinds of alterations of consciousness and awareness, all kinds of encounters,
Speaker 5: you know, which is what I think of shamanism as
Speaker 5: intermediation essentially. Yeah, you know, it's I'm sure all of
Speaker 5: us could tell some tales of contact of touch points.
Speaker 5: Some of them are inter dimensional, some of them from uh,
Speaker 5: parasitic entities. Certainly, working for twenty odd years in energy healing,
Speaker 5: we tend to encounter a lot of parasitic entities, and
Speaker 5: some of them can be very powerful. Okay, I don't
Speaker 5: use I don't think in terms of good and evil here, Okay,
Speaker 5: I'm not a duelist at all, but some some entities
Speaker 5: are earth bound, some of them are location bound. Some
Speaker 5: of them are are people who've died unexpectedly and become
Speaker 5: parasitic on anyone that they can attach to. Some of
Speaker 5: them are our persons who've passed over and have unfinished
Speaker 5: business and are constantly seeking to have someone to complete
Speaker 5: for them. And then you start getting into the higher
Speaker 5: order entities, which you know can be I'll give you
Speaker 5: an example. I mean, running a energy healing practice, we
Speaker 5: had to routinely cleanse the rooms, you know, otherwise the
Speaker 5: atmosphere starts getting den and heavy, you know, with people
Speaker 5: releasing stuff. So once I encountered, or we encountered, an
Speaker 5: Islamic scholar and he offered his services to do this cleansing.
Speaker 5: And he had this like dense book with all these
Speaker 5: notes and diagrams and astrological charts, and he said, oh fine,
Speaker 5: you know we actually pay give you, give you a
Speaker 5: kind of gift for doing it. We were open to that.
Speaker 5: And my wife and I were standing in the admin
Speaker 5: looking at all the invoices, and I distinctly saw like
Speaker 5: a white light sheet come across my vision and as
Speaker 5: it passed us, our knees just went. The intensity of
Speaker 5: that fine vibration was so high. Literally we just buckled
Speaker 5: and but for the table we'd have been on the floor.
Speaker 5: It swept through the space, So I think of it
Speaker 5: as being much by the wings of an angel. Frankly,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 4: Peter, I have a question about the placement of these
Speaker 4: myth realms. Now, would they be in alignment with Earth
Speaker 4: energies that sort of enhance?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I would guess almost always connected to a spring.
Speaker 5: And therefore, you know, like most of the temples of
Speaker 5: Apollo on the western Anatolian coast are situated where there's
Speaker 5: a deep rupture in the strata rock strata, so you
Speaker 5: have water flowing and then changing level and emerging as
Speaker 5: a spring. And that's where all the oracular centers are located,
Speaker 5: you know, in Greece and in Turkey. So those let's
Speaker 5: call them geopsychic energies are incredibly powerful and assist in
Speaker 5: shifting the quality and depth of awareness. So their natural
Speaker 5: oracular sites. And yeah, every Mathrea, you know pretty well,
Speaker 5: if it could be, is situated next to a spring.
Speaker 5: So same you harness the Earth's energies for this kind
Speaker 5: of work if you can.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, Lego, being a Turkey, I got to ask
Speaker 4: you about the earthquakes. Do you remember the devastating earthquakes
Speaker 4: that took place. I think it was in twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Now it's.
Speaker 5: Always happening there by the way.
Speaker 4: I had a theory about that. So that was right
Speaker 4: after they shot these giant balls out of the sky
Speaker 4: in North America. Right, So you've got the balls in
Speaker 4: the sky that landed in the ocean right after they
Speaker 4: shot them out of the sky, like Urinus being castrated.
Speaker 5: By weird stuff there.
Speaker 4: Right, you have the massive earthquakes on Turkey immediately afterwards,
Speaker 4: and it's like this is where the mith Ralliams and
Speaker 4: these practices were done. And now they're cutting off the
Speaker 4: castration in the skies.
Speaker 5: So strange, I know. I mean, the whole thing with
Speaker 5: the you know, uf O, UAP, whatever you want to
Speaker 5: call it, phenomena is a constant in human cultural history
Speaker 5: and development. They're all They've always been here. I'm sure
Speaker 5: they inhabit parts of the earth. I'm sure that. No.
Speaker 5: And if you look really closely at the alien abduction
Speaker 5: for an hour for instance, as you know, the John
Speaker 5: Mack was head of psychiatry Harvard, I did a longitudinal
Speaker 5: study of people suffering PTSD without any trauma, you know,
Speaker 5: And I checked their family histories, no sentimental illness die.
Speaker 5: The one constant factor they all had was the recovery
Speaker 5: of alien abduction phenomena under a hypnosis. So I'm also
Speaker 5: convinced that there's a long term process or project of
Speaker 5: intervention in the human biological development that's weird, and.
Speaker 4: It goes along the same lines as the shifting of consciousness.
Speaker 4: I think there's some other, you know, kind of form
Speaker 4: of intelligence that has been interacting with us for thousands
Speaker 4: of years, and we've lost our immunity to some of
Speaker 4: the more destructive elements of it because we had that
Speaker 4: knowledge kind of struggle.
Speaker 5: A lot of people who have that alien abduction experience
Speaker 5: wake up with a sense of purpose that they didn't
Speaker 5: have beforehand. So it also acts as like a trigger,
Speaker 5: as an initiator, let's say, I almost like a form
Speaker 5: of initiation.
Speaker 2: Oh it changes their life too forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, same thing with the near death experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, indeed, absolutely Yeah. I had a number of those.
Speaker 5: I say, a lot of these cases we documented in
Speaker 5: the book The Power of the Healing Field. You know,
Speaker 5: it's just like a kindle book for like two dollars,
Speaker 5: But in there. Over that twenty thirty years, we documented
Speaker 5: the most extreme cases that we encountered in the healing
Speaker 5: energy healing business and it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Thank you man. How does anybody else have any other questions?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I had one. I had one question.
Speaker 6: So I know that there's aspects of Zoroastrianism that were
Speaker 6: brought or you know, that are incorporated into Judaism. Is
Speaker 6: there anything from our I guess, any kind of aspects
Speaker 6: from Midraism that are incorporated in any mainstream religions today
Speaker 6: or that folks really don't recognize.
Speaker 5: I'm aware of, because yeah, it kind of disappeared from
Speaker 5: view around six hundred and it didn't resurface again until
Speaker 5: the fifteenth century when they started digging up Roman remains.
Speaker 5: There was a big period of antiquarianism. There was a
Speaker 5: market all of a sudden, so people were digging up
Speaker 5: any bits of Roman stuff they could find. So for
Speaker 5: like a thousand years it just disappeared, you know, it
Speaker 5: was it was like zero visibility. And then of course
Speaker 5: by the seventy eighteenth eighteenth century, it was really popular. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: it kind of it's recovery kind of coincided with the
Speaker 5: emergence of freemasonry in Europe.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, thank.
Speaker 1: I guess if nobody else has any other questions, was
Speaker 1: there anything, Peter that you would like to maybe say
Speaker 1: to maybe like you know, advertise the book or to
Speaker 1: let people know or anything like anything you want to
Speaker 1: say before we wrap it up that may Yeah.
Speaker 5: There's a whole series of books, you know, so people
Speaker 5: should check out Scarlet Imprint and theon publishing and Inner
Speaker 5: Traditions and published by all of them. So the Inner
Speaker 5: Traditions is the healing energy healing stuff. Scarlet Imprint is
Speaker 5: the Renaissance Tarot deck and Tarot book and the Higher
Speaker 5: Sophia decoding the architecture of that. Then publishing is doing
Speaker 5: the part of the sorry, the ritual and epiphany. So
Speaker 5: I'm like spread over the three publishers.
Speaker 2: Nice prize.
Speaker 1: The you know, Inner Tradition sends me people all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't think they ever told me about you. I
Speaker 1: think I have to say something to him about that.
Speaker 5: I think the the energy healing thing is is not
Speaker 5: that popular amongst these terror community, which I think is
Speaker 5: a shame. It's almost like the rituals you're describing are
Speaker 5: seen as sufficient to do the job. And my own
Speaker 5: conviction is you need to do the energy work as well.
Speaker 5: You know, it's not enough to rely on you know,
Speaker 5: I totally agree on that, and you need to avail
Speaker 5: yourself of modern energy meridian techniques like emotional freedom techniques
Speaker 5: and so on. You know, they should be in everybody's
Speaker 5: repertoire by now. I mean Gary Clay Craig proved them
Speaker 5: back in the eighties when he went to Vietnam Veterans
Speaker 5: Hospital and filmed it. And these guys had hoost traumatic
Speaker 5: stress disorder since the sixties. Now twenty years later, and
Speaker 5: he was just tapping on and clearing the traumas one
Speaker 5: after the other, you know, And here we are, they're
Speaker 5: still dishing out powerful drugs for PTSD, you know. And
Speaker 5: we know that it's solvable by simply tapping on the
Speaker 5: meridians while having a loose connection to the trauma, the
Speaker 5: originating trauma. That's sufficient. It'll knock down PTSD to a
Speaker 5: minor anxiety within two sessions. And that's been proven now
Speaker 5: with medical trials. But still it's been known for half
Speaker 5: a century. And I don't I you know, what more
Speaker 5: can I say? People need to take more responsibility for
Speaker 5: their healing.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, wow, well said I even, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm sure you know of the man David Lynch,
Speaker 1: but I mean even just what he used to say
Speaker 1: about transcendental meditation and how he was showing that, like
Speaker 1: bringing that into schools and you know, just integrating that
Speaker 1: what wonders it could do for the human being. You know,
Speaker 1: So I totally agree, Like you have to actually put
Speaker 1: in the time and work to change your in what's
Speaker 1: going on in your head, and I think that could
Speaker 1: just make huge, huge opinion.
Speaker 2: Do wealth with you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do have another question that somebody asked before we
Speaker 1: wrap it up. I've seen statements that Jung was into mythriism.
Speaker 1: Does Peter have any comments on this?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 5: Young was into everything I mean Eastern Religion's mithraism. Uh.
Speaker 5: I mean he was an encyclopedic mind and curiosity. So yeah,
Speaker 5: absolutely anything to do with the the I kin a
Speaker 5: graphic world of of humanity's spiritual consciousness was was like
Speaker 5: his daily meat and bread. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, Well, thank you very much, Peter.
Speaker 1: Again, like even your taro, and believe it or not,
Speaker 1: the energy healing thing, I'm extremely interested in so hopefully
Speaker 1: maybe in the future we can have a discussion with
Speaker 1: you again. But this was awesome. I'm really really happy
Speaker 1: that we had John Headless. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: suggesting him as a guest. I thought this was a banger.
Speaker 1: This was really good and I really appreciated your outlook
Speaker 1: and all the stuff you had to bring to the show.
Speaker 5: Peter.
Speaker 1: Before we wrap it up, though, I will have everybody
Speaker 1: plug there plug theirself again real quick. Hell Less Giant,
Speaker 1: thank you again for bringing up Peter onto the show
Speaker 1: and let everybody know about all those shows you're doing again.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so. I've got Trialogus with Ethan today at some point,
Speaker 4: I think, and we've got Alchemy Mondays coming on tomorrow
Speaker 4: with Arrows up and we're going to be doing some
Speaker 4: more experimentation. And we've got the mail bag on Thursdays
Speaker 4: with me and Nick where we show symbols and read
Speaker 4: your mail. So send us your occult slash esoteric experiences
Speaker 4: at Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com and we
Speaker 4: will read those. Thank you, and you'll get stickers as well.
Speaker 4: If you include your address, Nick will send you stickers.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the sticker that I'm sending the occult symbolism
Speaker 1: has depicted off the inside of your rival and Jules next,
Speaker 1: please sir, let everybody know what's going on with you.
Speaker 3: All right, this was a great episode. I learned a lot.
Speaker 3: Thank you Peter for coming on.
Speaker 5: Yeuhs.
Speaker 6: Y'all can follow me at Gray Pilled Pod on Twitter,
Speaker 6: Great Piled Underscore podcast on Instagram, go follow me on Rumble, YouTube,
Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all that good stuff. If you want
Speaker 6: to support the show, you can go to patreon dot
Speaker 6: com slash Gray Pill Podcast. We have Patreon exclusive content
Speaker 6: we do over there. You'll see the Occult Rejects over
Speaker 6: there as well a bunch of familiar faces. Also, I
Speaker 6: was gonna say I'm probably going live later today. Don't
Speaker 6: know what the show is gonna be yet, but probably
Speaker 6: tonight at some point, so stay posted on that. And
Speaker 6: this week I have a few shows. I believe Tuesday,
Speaker 6: Doc Brown is gonna come on and Tuesday, no, that's Wednesday.
Speaker 6: I think Wednesday, I have a couple shows. I may
Speaker 6: have to reschedule one for some other time this week
Speaker 6: than Thursday, because I think Robbie's gonna come on as well,
Speaker 6: and then Dana from Rotten Jules.
Speaker 3: Is also gonna come on.
Speaker 6: And I'm also dropping the Inquiries of Reality episode sometime today,
Speaker 6: So a bunch of stuff coming from Great Phill this
Speaker 6: next month, guys, Headless, we got to do a hand
Speaker 6: of zebazios, like a little deep dive on everything on
Speaker 6: the hand. I really am very interested in that. And
Speaker 6: y'all look out for the next episode on the Rustic
Speaker 6: Gods that we do dropping sometime this week. But great episode, guys,
Speaker 6: and I hope everyone has a great day.
Speaker 1: Thank you again, No, thank you, Jules, appreciate you making
Speaker 1: it on. And last but not least before we let
Speaker 1: Peter h plug his stuff again, please Ethan let everybody
Speaker 1: know what is going on.
Speaker 7: Well, that was so informative and inspirational. I love the
Speaker 7: idea of smoothing over the wrinkles of energetics with service.
Speaker 7: So thank you so much Peter for sharing. Ethan Indigo
Speaker 7: Smith easy to find on all the social media and
Speaker 7: I always appreciate people communicating and so forth, So thanks
Speaker 7: again everyone and Peter.
Speaker 5: That was awesome.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was. And Peter, real quick, if you.
Speaker 5: Don't mind, thanks.
Speaker 1: Go ahead let everybody know what Nick. Yeah, let everybody know.
Speaker 1: If you don't mind repeating yourself from the beginning. Let
Speaker 1: everybody know where they can find all your amazing work,
Speaker 1: and let them know about all of your books please
Speaker 1: that you'd like to promote.
Speaker 8: Oh, as I said, scholar imprint the publishing and energy
Speaker 8: healing stuff in traditions.
Speaker 5: So anyway, just google me. That's true all over the internet.
Speaker 5: You can't miss it is true.
Speaker 1: If you look him here, if you look him up
Speaker 1: for authors, you're gonna get tons of ship. So yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you again, Peter. That was it was really an
Speaker 1: awesome show. It was very informative for me because this
Speaker 1: is this is a topic. Yeah, this is a topic
Speaker 1: I don't know much about. So like, thank you for
Speaker 1: giving me some insight on this stuff. And again hopefully
Speaker 1: get you off for the tower and the energy stuff.
Speaker 1: That was really interesting that you brought that stuff up. Again,
Speaker 1: thank you everybody in the chat. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of people in here, a lot of people dropping some
Speaker 1: good stuff. There was some names that I don't know
Speaker 1: if you were new or maybe I just noticed you. Now,
Speaker 1: thank you for for saying stuff and joining in on
Speaker 1: the live. That's why we do it. I really do
Speaker 1: love a lot of the comments that are added in there.
Speaker 1: I do highly suggest for people who maybe catch the
Speaker 1: live as a re you know, rerun, check out the
Speaker 1: life chat as you're watching it if you can, because
Speaker 1: you will see information in there as well that I
Speaker 1: think helps, even with the guests or just other ideas.
Speaker 1: So again, thank you everybody, and until the next one,
Speaker 1: everybody be well later