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<v Speaker 1>Imagine this scenario, a multi billion dollar fraud scheme right

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<v Speaker 1>blown wide open just by a single email or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a Loane thumb drive.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or think about a vandal documenting their own crime

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube using their phone, thinking they're completely.

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<v Speaker 1>Anonymous, exactly. And this isn't science fiction, is it. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the real world of computer forensics.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is. And today we're taking a deep dive

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<v Speaker 2>into that pretty fascinating world. We're using excerpts from Hacking

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<v Speaker 2>Exposed Computer Forensics, second Edition, And you know, the book

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<v Speaker 2>itself says this isn't an incident response handbook. It's more

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<v Speaker 2>of a guide to understanding how digital evidence really changes investigations.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a really important distinction. So our mission for you,

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<v Speaker 1>our listener, is to sort of unpack how these forensic

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<v Speaker 1>investigators uncover those well invisible digital footprints.

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<v Speaker 2>From really complex corporate fraud like that multi billion dollar example,

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<v Speaker 2>down to individual misconduct, and.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll look at what it takes to make that evidence

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<v Speaker 1>actually stand up in court, how the field has evolved,

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<v Speaker 1>the tools, the techniques, and.

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<v Speaker 2>Really why it's just so vital in today's world, which is,

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<v Speaker 2>let's face it, completely driven by information.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So let's unravel it. Where do we start the evolution?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe, yeah, let's zoom out a bit. Computer forensics has

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<v Speaker 2>just fundamentally changed investigations since say two thousand and four,

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<v Speaker 2>when the first edition of this book came out. Right

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<v Speaker 2>back then, investigators, you know, they spent ages wading through

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<v Speaker 2>paper documents.

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<v Speaker 1>Mountains of them, I can picture it.

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<v Speaker 2>But now electronic evidence it's not just a piece of

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<v Speaker 2>the puzzle. It's off in front and center. It's crucial

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<v Speaker 2>for figuring out not just what happened, but the intent

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<v Speaker 2>behind it all.

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<v Speaker 1>Intent, right, that's key.

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<v Speaker 2>Think about the huge financial crises like two thousand and eight,

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and nine, subprime mortgages, all that stuff. Digital

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<v Speaker 2>forensics was absolutely essential in exposing the fraud underneath it all.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a massive shift. And it's not just about the

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<v Speaker 1>technology itself, is it. There's a big human element here too. Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. The author's Aaron Phillip, John Lovelin, Rudy Peck, Peter Marcatos,

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Rosen, and the technical editor Luis Sharinghausen Junior. They

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<v Speaker 2>come from really diverse backgrounds. You've got high tech investigations,

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<v Speaker 2>ip theft experts, law enforcement folks from the EPA's Criminal

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<v Speaker 2>Investigation Division. Wow, even people from the National Computer Forensics Lab,

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<v Speaker 2>Electronic Crimes Team, and commercial litigation.

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<v Speaker 1>So it really underscores that blend. You need the technical

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<v Speaker 1>skills and the legal know how definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>And one thing the book does which is quite clever,

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<v Speaker 2>is use these attack icons and countermeasure icons.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, tell me about those. How do they help someone understand?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, think of them as like signals for you, the listener.

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<v Speaker 2>An attack icon highlights something that could mess up an investigation,

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<v Speaker 2>like what, for instance, like an investigator accidentally writing data

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<v Speaker 2>onto the original evidence drive while they're trying to copy it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a huge no.

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<v Speaker 1>No, right, that would compromise it. So if the attack

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<v Speaker 1>icon warns you, what does the countermeasure icon?

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<v Speaker 2>The countermeasure shows you exactly what to do to avoid

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<v Speaker 2>that problem. So, for that hard drive example, the countermeasure

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<v Speaker 2>is correctly hashing the drive.

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<v Speaker 1>Hashing like creating a unique digital fingerprint.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly a fingerprint, and then you verify that fingerprint after

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<v Speaker 2>you've made the copy of the image. Okay, And the

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<v Speaker 2>book rates these risks based on popularity. How often does

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<v Speaker 2>this happen? Simplicity? How easy is it to make this

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<v Speaker 2>mistake impact, how bad is the damage? And then a

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<v Speaker 2>final risk rating.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's all about making sure that evidence is, as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, unassailable.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely. Unassailable is the word, because when we get to

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<v Speaker 2>the Bedrock principles, the core idea is that evidence must

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<v Speaker 2>be defensible, it must be unassailable. Why because it's almost

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<v Speaker 2>certainly going to end up in court.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what are those absolute must do safeguards the

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<v Speaker 1>non negotiables.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first and foremost, you've got the chain of custody.

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<v Speaker 2>This isn't just paperwork. It's a super meticulous record, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It shows exactly who had the evidence, when, what they

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<v Speaker 2>did with it, basically proving it hasn't been tampered with.

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<v Speaker 1>How do they prove that digitally?

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<v Speaker 2>Using those cryptographic hashing functions we mentioned MD five SAHA one,

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<v Speaker 2>they create that unique digital fingerprint at key moments. If

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<v Speaker 2>even one tiny bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Of data changes, the fingerprint changes, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Fingerprint changes, proof of tampering or at least proof that

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<v Speaker 2>something changed.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it's like a digital tamper proof seal, got it?

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<v Speaker 1>What else is critical?

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<v Speaker 2>Then there's completeness. Investigators have to and the book says

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<v Speaker 2>this look in every nook and cranny.

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<v Speaker 1>Every nook and cranny.

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<v Speaker 2>Why so exhaustive because, as the book puts it, lawyers

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<v Speaker 2>hate new evidence popping up unexpectedly in court.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh. I can imagine it.

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<v Speaker 2>Can completely derail a case. No client wants that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of surprise, especially when you know their reputation or even

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<v Speaker 2>freedom is on the line.

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<v Speaker 1>So meticulousness is key. What about the human factor bias?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe good point that leads to bias awareness. This field

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<v Speaker 2>demands full disclosure. Absolute impartiality makes sense. The book even

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<v Speaker 2>suggests bringing in a third party firm if there's any

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<v Speaker 2>potential conflict of interest, like, uh, maybe the lead investigator

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<v Speaker 2>head dinner at the suspects house two years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that wouldn't look good.

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<v Speaker 2>Any hint of impropriety can just sink the evidence in court.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So to manage all this complexity, is there like

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<v Speaker 1>a standard process?

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<v Speaker 2>There is actually the Electronic Discovery Reference Model or EDRM.

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<v Speaker 2>It came about in May.

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<v Speaker 1>Two thousand and five DRM. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It basically provides a standard framework brings some order to

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<v Speaker 2>analyzing and producing electronic data for legal stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>What are the first steps in that model?

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<v Speaker 2>The initial steps are crucial first define the scope what

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<v Speaker 2>are we looking for? Then identify all the places data

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<v Speaker 2>might be PCs, phones, cloud storage, you name it right.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you strategize how to preserve that data, lock it

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<v Speaker 2>down and critically establish that chain of custody as soon.

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<v Speaker 1>As possible, preserve document.

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<v Speaker 2>Only after all that groundwork has done, should investigators even

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<v Speaker 2>start to preview the data, and only using forensically sound tools,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to make sure they don't accidentally change anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's the process Bedrock. Now let's get out

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<v Speaker 1>of the digital hood. What are the computers themselves? The

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<v Speaker 1>book uses a.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool analogy, yeah, the human body analogy. It compares computer modules, biosos, processor,

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<v Speaker 2>hard disk to things like the heart, lungs, eyes. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>each part does simple tasks, right, but when they work

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<v Speaker 2>together they perform incredibly complex functions. Same with the computer,

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<v Speaker 2>simple parts, complex results.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great way to think about it. And hard

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<v Speaker 1>drives they get special mention.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, marvels of modern engineering. They talk about the

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<v Speaker 2>platter spinning and the read write heads flying over them.

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<v Speaker 2>The analogy is like a mock one plane just two

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<v Speaker 2>feet off the runway. That's how close and fast they operate.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's incredible precision.

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<v Speaker 2>And for newer systems they mention SaaS drives that serial

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<v Speaker 2>attached SCSI. It's an evolution of the older SESI interface,

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<v Speaker 2>offering much faster speeds, which is really important when you're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to be huge amounts of data quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>So modern storage is amazing. Yeah, what about older stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>What if the evidence isn't on a super fast SAS drive?

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<v Speaker 1>What challenges pop up? Then?

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<v Speaker 2>You mean the eight tracks of the computing world.

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<v Speaker 1>Floppy disks, floppy discs. I remember those.

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<v Speaker 2>They're actually surprisingly tough physically, But the book warns, woe

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<v Speaker 2>be the investigator who has to deal with them? Why

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<v Speaker 2>is that their formatting methods were often really obscure, poorly documented.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be like digital archaeology, just trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>the data off.

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<v Speaker 1>Them, so like digging up ancient artifacts. Yeah, do investigators

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<v Speaker 1>actually run into these much anymore more.

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<v Speaker 2>Than you'd think, especially with older systems, maybe long running

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<v Speaker 2>fraud cases. And then you have tape backups? Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>servers often use tapes right, commonly used for servers, but

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<v Speaker 2>extracting evidence from them. The book calls it a dicey

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<v Speaker 2>proposition at best. Dicey Yeah, because there's just so much

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<v Speaker 2>variety in the hardware the software. You might find date tapes,

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<v Speaker 2>dlt L. Each one is its own little puzzle to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out, like a nightmare it can be. And then

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<v Speaker 2>moving to more modern stuff, you have memory technologies, memory cards,

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<v Speaker 2>digital cameras, MP three players, smartphones. They're everywhere exactly and

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<v Speaker 2>they are very frequent sources of evidence. The absolute key

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<v Speaker 2>principle when handling these is read only. You cannot risk

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<v Speaker 2>modifying the data accidentally.

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<v Speaker 1>Read only got it. So once you understand the devices,

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<v Speaker 1>you need the right place to work on them, the

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<v Speaker 1>forensic fortress, the lab. What makes a good lab, A.

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<v Speaker 2>Well equipped lab is non negotiable. You need serious processing power,

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<v Speaker 2>a big monitor for detailed work, external drive bays, lots

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<v Speaker 2>of RAM fast internal drives like SATA or SCSI.

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<v Speaker 1>So powerful gear, But what about securing the lab itself

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<v Speaker 1>and the evidence within it?

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<v Speaker 2>Security is layered physically. You need high grade materials for locks,

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<v Speaker 2>multiple authentication methods, pins, maybe fingerprints, and detailed logs of

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<v Speaker 2>who who enters and leaves.

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<v Speaker 1>The last makes sense, keep track of everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Network isolation is also critical. An air gap physically disconnected

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<v Speaker 2>from outside networks or at least a very robust firewall.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to protect your trusted forensic systems from well,

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<v Speaker 2>curious and malicious crackers out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep the bad guys out.

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<v Speaker 2>And don't forget environmental stuff, fire protection, automatic suppression systems,

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<v Speaker 2>fireproof storage, to guard against unforeseen natural disaster. You're building

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<v Speaker 2>a protective.

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<v Speaker 1>Bubble, okay, a secure bubble. What tools are essential inside

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<v Speaker 1>that bubble? What can't an investigator work without?

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<v Speaker 2>Right blockers? Absolutely essential. These are forensically sound devices. Think

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<v Speaker 2>of them like a diode or a check valve for data.

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<v Speaker 1>A check valve. How does that work?

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<v Speaker 2>It ensures data can only travel one way from the

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<v Speaker 2>evidence drive to the forensic workstation. It physically stops the

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<v Speaker 2>computer from running back to the evidence drive.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, preventing those axidle modifications we talked about.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly which could make the evidence useless in court.

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<v Speaker 1>That's clever, like a one way street for data. What

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<v Speaker 1>about investigators working out outside the lab in the field, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>They need a field kit. It's got essentials. Permanent markers

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<v Speaker 2>for labeling everything, clearly, anti static bags to protect the electronic.

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<v Speaker 1>Basic but crucial stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Very crucial and for really sensitive drives, especially if you're traveling.

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<v Speaker 2>The advices use padded boxes and if you have to

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<v Speaker 2>hand carry them on the plane, don't check them. Protect

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<v Speaker 2>that evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you've got the lab, the tools, the mindset.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the actual hunt for data. How do you collect

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<v Speaker 1>evidence from say a single computer in a forensically sound way.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very methodical, almost like a ritual. First step, power

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<v Speaker 2>down the system properly, then physically disconnect the power cord,

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<v Speaker 2>eject any media CDs, DVDs, USBs. And the book even

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<v Speaker 2>mentions the old paper clip trick for a stubborn CD

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<v Speaker 2>ROM drive.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, good old paper.

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<v Speaker 2>Clip, and this is vital. Fill out a separate chain

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<v Speaker 2>of custody form for every single item you remove, every

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<v Speaker 2>hard drive, every flash drive, every DiscT document, everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Every single piece tracked. Okay, Then comes imaging the drive right,

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<v Speaker 1>that sounds critical.

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<v Speaker 2>It is the critical step. This is where tools like

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<v Speaker 2>end case or the DD command and Linux smart ftk

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<v Speaker 2>immager come in.

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<v Speaker 1>What do they do exactly?

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<v Speaker 2>Their main job is to create an exact bit for

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<v Speaker 2>bit copy of forensic image of the original drive. Every file,

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<v Speaker 2>every deleted fragment, all the hidden data gets preserved.

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<v Speaker 1>The perfect snapshot.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and a crucial point. When you're imaging a drive

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<v Speaker 2>on a Windows system, you must use a hardware right blocker.

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<v Speaker 2>Why specifically Windows, because Windows automatically tries to write system information, timestams,

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<v Speaker 2>log entries to any new drive it sees. If you

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<v Speaker 2>connect and evidence drive directly, Windows will write to it instantly,

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<v Speaker 2>compromising its integrity. The right blocker prevents that.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it essential for Windows. So once you have the image,

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<v Speaker 1>the snapshot, what's next, bag and tag.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, you properly label the original drive using tamperproof peel

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<v Speaker 2>and stick labels. Document everything on the label and in

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<v Speaker 2>your logs. Then secure storage a locked location, access strictly controlled,

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<v Speaker 2>only authorized personnel, ready for court.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that covers the traditional approach. But things are changing, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Remote investigations are becoming more common.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the whole business climate is pushing things that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Thing wrongful termination suits, IP, theft, new regulations, it's all

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<v Speaker 2>forcing current forensic approaches to evolve.

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<v Speaker 1>As the book says, how.

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<v Speaker 2>So, well, you've got global companies, massive amounts of data

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<v Speaker 2>spread everywhere, and tricky workplace privacy issues. Sending an investigator

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<v Speaker 2>on site isn't always practical or even possible anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And privacy. Yeah, that sounds like a minefield.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be. The book highlights a major pitfall violating

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<v Speaker 2>private sector workplace privacy. If a company doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 2>clear acceptable Use policy an AUP, or just a clear

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<v Speaker 2>policy on employee privacy expectations that employees have acknowledged, that

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<v Speaker 2>company is really exposed to liability.

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<v Speaker 1>So what's the fix?

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<v Speaker 2>The countermeasure a well written AUP that employees actually sign

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<v Speaker 2>off on. It needs to clearly state what's allowed, what's monitored,

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<v Speaker 2>and what the expectation of privacy is or isn't on

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<v Speaker 2>company systems. That's the company's.

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<v Speaker 1>Legal shield, crucial for any business listening. Yeah, so if

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<v Speaker 1>physical collection is hard, what's the remote alternative tools?

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<v Speaker 2>Like in case enterprise. Their true power, according to the book,

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<v Speaker 2>is accessing data on a live system remotely.

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<v Speaker 1>Without physically taking the drive.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, with just a few clicks, you can potentially access

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<v Speaker 2>and image the data. You can even do it covertly

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes covertly. Yeah, though you always have to consider network speed.

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<v Speaker 2>Imaging terabytes over a slow connection that could still take days,

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<v Speaker 2>but it avoids the need for physical access.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and what about those little USB drives you mentioned them? Earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>They seem like a huge risk for companies losing data.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, a gigantic risk for corporations, especially for IP theft

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<v Speaker 2>people just walking out with sensitive data.

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<v Speaker 1>How to investigators track those? They seem so easy to hide.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where digital footprints get really specific. Investigators dive into

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<v Speaker 2>the Windows registry.

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<v Speaker 1>The registry like the computer's central logbook sort of.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a huge database of settings and activity. They

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<v Speaker 2>look specifically at a key called USB store USB store yep,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a guestbook for USB devices. It logs when

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<v Speaker 2>a device was last plugged in. Even better, it often

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<v Speaker 2>records the device's unique hard coded serial number the instanciety

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<v Speaker 2>that's a very reliable way to track a specific thumb drive.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, so even a simple USB stick leaves a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>clear trail. What about other user actions? How do you

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<v Speaker 1>piece together what a suspect has taken or done on

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<v Speaker 1>the computer?

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<v Speaker 2>Now? Really unmasking activity? Take Microsoft Office documents. They're often

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<v Speaker 2>full of hidden metadata.

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<v Speaker 1>Get a data like data about the.

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<v Speaker 2>Data exactly hidden fields called custom properties, things like review, cycleide, author, email,

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<v Speaker 2>even email subject. This stuff can directly link a user

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<v Speaker 2>to a document, sometimes even showing the email addressing CA.

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<v Speaker 1>Came from hidden right inside the file.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes, but interestingly, this info is often stored outside the

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<v Speaker 2>main document file, in little companion files like adhosse dot

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<v Speaker 2>rcd or review dot rcd.

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<v Speaker 1>That's sneaky, so much hidden info.

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<v Speaker 2>And investigators can also search for something called the PI,

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<v Speaker 2>which can lead to the document's unique MC address m

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<v Speaker 2>MAC address.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like the network cards fingerprint.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely, it's like the VIN number for the network card

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<v Speaker 2>on the computer that created or last saved the document.

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<v Speaker 2>A very powerful identifier.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so documents, bill secrets. What about web browsing. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>start with the Internet explore. People use that for ages.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and here's the interesting thing about IE. Even though

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<v Speaker 2>it's old, it's kind of a digital tattletale. Also, because

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<v Speaker 2>it was so deeply woven into Windows, it left tracks everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Every click, every site visit often got logged and hidden

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<v Speaker 2>files called index.

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<v Speaker 1>Dot dot index dot det.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They act like lookup tables for browsing history, cash files, cookies,

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<v Speaker 2>and cookies themselves store useful stuff like use names, site preferences.

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<v Speaker 2>It's often less about what they searched for and more

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<v Speaker 2>about proving they were on a certain side at a

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<v Speaker 2>certain time.

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<v Speaker 1>So even if you think you deleted your history, IE

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<v Speaker 1>might still hold clues. What about Firefox? Is it different?

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<v Speaker 2>Firefox is generally a bit tidier. Its files are more consolidated,

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<v Speaker 2>usually easier for investigators to parse.

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<v Speaker 1>Except uh oh, except what?

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<v Speaker 2>Except for its history file format called m ork. The

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<v Speaker 2>book does not mince words here. It calls m ork

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<v Speaker 2>what happens when open source goes bad?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Why so harsh?

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently it's just a really complex, difficult format to extract

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<v Speaker 2>reliable data from, sometimes a real headache for investigators.

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<v Speaker 1>Good to know. Okay. Besides browsers and documents, what else?

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<v Speaker 1>In Windows tracks user activity?

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<v Speaker 2>There's a really important artifact called user assists.

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<v Speaker 1>User assists, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of it as Windows keeping notes on what programs

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<v Speaker 2>you run. It logs the application's name, its path, how

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<v Speaker 2>many times you run it, and the last time you

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<v Speaker 2>ran it.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds incredibly useful.

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<v Speaker 2>It is especially for spotting programs run from a USB drive,

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<v Speaker 2>or even figuring out what applications were used right before

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<v Speaker 2>they got deleted. It shows intent and action.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's shift here slightly specialized investigations. Mobile devices. First,

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<v Speaker 1>They are everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely permeated our lives, as the book says, and because

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<v Speaker 2>people are so comfortable with them, they sometimes will take

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<v Speaker 2>risks they wouldn't normally take, like.

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<v Speaker 1>The examples we started with documenting crimes on their.

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<v Speaker 2>Phones exactly, or the book mentions a gangster taking a

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<v Speaker 2>picture of a deceased person with his phone. That casualness,

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<v Speaker 2>that comfort level, it's nothing but good for investigators.

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<v Speaker 1>Grim But I see the point, and the tech has

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<v Speaker 1>changed massively since two thousand and.

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<v Speaker 2>Four, huge changes from those early PDA cell phone combos

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<v Speaker 2>to today's smartphones. Tools have evolved too. Parabin's Device Seizure,

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<v Speaker 2>for instance, can pull data from literally hundreds of models

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<v Speaker 2>of cell phones. What kind of data call logs, contacts,

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<v Speaker 2>text messages, SMS, mms, sometimes even deleted stuff or voice

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<v Speaker 2>recordings In case also has tools for older palm ost devices.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the biggest challenge with phones?

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<v Speaker 2>Passwords and encryption are often the big hurdle. Getting past

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<v Speaker 2>lock screens requires specialized techniques, sometimes specialized hardware.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, so phones are one specialized area. What about massive

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<v Speaker 1>enterprise storage terabytes of data on raids, sands NAS systems.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, dealing with systems holding terabytes of data that weren't

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<v Speaker 2>really designed for easy desktop access is another big challenge.

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<v Speaker 1>How do they tackle say arrayed array.

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<v Speaker 2>For raids you often have to image each disc individually

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<v Speaker 2>and then reconstruct the array digitally. For some network attached

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<v Speaker 2>storage NAS systems, you might even need to take the

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<v Speaker 2>system offline for a whole day to get a clean image.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be disruptive.

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<v Speaker 1>And tapes still tricking, Still.

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<v Speaker 2>Tricky, Yeah, same issues with varied hardware and software. But

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<v Speaker 2>tapes do have one unique advantage that physical rite protect tab.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah like on old floppy discs or VHS tapes, a

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<v Speaker 1>built in hardware right blocker.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, a nice little forensic safeguard built right in.

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<v Speaker 1>So with all this data terabytes, how on earth do

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<v Speaker 1>investigators search through it efficiently? It sounds impossible.

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00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.160
<v Speaker 2>That's where full text indexing is a life saver. Tools

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<v Speaker 2>like Glimpse or Access datas FTK use clever indexing methods

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<v Speaker 2>like binary search trees.

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<v Speaker 1>Binary search trees.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a way to organize the data so you

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<v Speaker 2>can search massive amounts terabytes of data in seconds. Literally.

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<v Speaker 2>It lets investigators zero in on keywords or relevant files

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly quickly. Huge time saver.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, investigation done, data analyze. Now the endgame reporting and

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<v Speaker 1>the justice system reporting seems crucial.

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00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.960
<v Speaker 2>It's one of the most crucial parts, the book argues,

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<v Speaker 2>because if you can't clearly explain your findings communicate.

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<v Speaker 1>The facts, all that hard work was for nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>All of your hard work will be for not exactly.

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00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Forensic tools generate technical reports, sure, but those aren't the

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<v Speaker 1>final product.

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<v Speaker 2>What makes a good final report, then, say, for internal use, it.

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<v Speaker 1>Needs an executive summary, high level, easy for a non

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<v Speaker 1>technical person like an executive to grasp the key findings.

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00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:07.960
<v Speaker 1>The evidence needs clear annotations explaining why it's relevant, and

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00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.759
<v Speaker 1>often you convert the final report to PDF to lock

401
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.680
<v Speaker 1>it down prevent changes. Okay, and then there are more

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00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.359
<v Speaker 1>formal legal documents, declarations, affidavits right.

403
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Declarations are typically for judges or lawyers. They need non

404
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:26.440
<v Speaker 2>technical language, clear paragraph numbering for easy reference, and affidavits

405
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:30.079
<v Speaker 2>add a layer of formality, a notarized signature that gives

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00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.000
<v Speaker 2>them stronger legal weight.

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00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>What about testifying as an expert witness? That report is

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00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:37.519
<v Speaker 1>different again.

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00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and the key thing here is discoverability. As a

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00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:44.240
<v Speaker 2>testifying expert, your opinions are independent, but your work product

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<v Speaker 2>everything related to forming that opinion. Everything, every document, every

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00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.680
<v Speaker 2>email notes, maybe even a doodle on a napkin if

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00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:54.920
<v Speaker 2>it relates to the case. It's all potentially discoverable by

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00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:58.319
<v Speaker 2>the opposing side and open for questioning. No secrets.

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00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's intense pressure takes And how does the court

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00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:05.960
<v Speaker 1>process itself differ for digital evidence in criminal versus civil cases.

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<v Speaker 2>In criminal cases, law enforcement usually seizes the original media.

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00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.079
<v Speaker 2>An interesting point the book makes is that the victim,

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<v Speaker 2>the complainant, can sometimes lose control over their own crime

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<v Speaker 2>scene once law enforcement takes over.

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00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.759
<v Speaker 1>Huh, didn't think of that.

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00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And civil cases, civil courts often give more control to

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<v Speaker 2>the private parties involved in the lawsuit. They might manage

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00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the collection and analysis more directly, often hiring their own

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00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>forensic experts.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's bring it back to real world impact. Yeah,

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00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.759
<v Speaker 1>fraud and IP theft. IP theft sounds devastating for companies.

428
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>It has a truly detrimental impact, loss of customers, losing

429
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>your competitive edge, profits eroding. And it's not just about

430
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.680
<v Speaker 2>someone copying source code anymore. It includes stealing customer data,

431
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.519
<v Speaker 2>trade secrets, really valuable stuff.

432
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.240
<v Speaker 1>How do investigators typically find evidence of that?

433
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.799
<v Speaker 2>They might look for those intermediary files we talked about,

434
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.960
<v Speaker 2>dot sql, dot CSV, dot tab files, suggesting data exported

435
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:06.000
<v Speaker 2>from databases for source code, they'll compare file contents, hash values,

436
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.519
<v Speaker 2>and remember those link files and registry keys like bags MRU.

437
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.519
<v Speaker 2>They can actually prove that specific proprietary information being opened

438
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:16.039
<v Speaker 2>on the thumb drive direct evidence of data theft.

439
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.839
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing how these little digital traces tell a story.

440
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.480
<v Speaker 1>What about broader employee misconduct things beyond ipceft.

441
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that covers a lot. Violating company policy, maybe using

442
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:32.680
<v Speaker 2>work computers for a side business, harassment, breaking non compete agreements.

443
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:33.720
<v Speaker 1>How was that investigated?

444
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Same techniques often, Yes, those MRU registry keys, link files,

445
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.839
<v Speaker 2>they show which documents were accessed, what programs were run manually.

446
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:43.920
<v Speaker 2>It paints a picture of activity.

447
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:46.759
<v Speaker 1>The book had an interesting anecdote about code words.

448
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that was a great one. An employee used

449
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.359
<v Speaker 2>codewords and emails and calendars at their old company when

450
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.440
<v Speaker 2>setting up meetings to steal clients or discuss leaving. Okay,

451
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.559
<v Speaker 2>But when they got to the new company, they stopped

452
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.319
<v Speaker 2>using the code words. So looking back, it became easy

453
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>for us to see that an innocent sounding phrase like

454
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 2>meet me about a personal issue at the old job

455
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:09.759
<v Speaker 2>really meant meet me so I can take your business.

456
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.319
<v Speaker 1>Wow, the change in pattern gave them away human behavior

457
00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:15.359
<v Speaker 1>leaving digital clues again exactly.

458
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating how behavior translates digitally.

459
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.759
<v Speaker 1>And tying this altogether. Employee and corporate fraud. What are

460
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:24.400
<v Speaker 1>common digital tactics there?

461
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.559
<v Speaker 2>A classic is running second sets of books, alternate ledgers,

462
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:33.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe hidden Excel files, separate QuickBooks files, sometimes even encrypted

463
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:34.799
<v Speaker 2>data on a thumb.

464
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.799
<v Speaker 1>Drive to track the illicit stuff.

465
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Precisely tracking embezzlement or other fraud outside the official company records.

466
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Money laundering is another big area.

467
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Trying to hide where the money came from.

468
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Right schemes often involve shell companies, which investigators might uncover

469
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:55.359
<v Speaker 2>through emails between accomplices or using fake identities, setting up

470
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.920
<v Speaker 2>accounts in foreign banks known for prioritizing privacy and.

471
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:03.359
<v Speaker 1>The impact of mass of corporate scandals like Enron or WorldCom.

472
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Huge societal impact. Those scandals, uncovered partly through digital forensics,

473
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.799
<v Speaker 2>directly led to new laws like Sarbanes Oxley trying to

474
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.119
<v Speaker 2>prevent that scale fraud from happening again.

475
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:16.920
<v Speaker 1>It really shows the power and necessity of this field.

476
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.759
<v Speaker 1>So wrapping this up, what's the big takeaway.

477
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.799
<v Speaker 2>For our listener, Well, I think it's understanding that navigating

478
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:24.799
<v Speaker 2>our digital world means understanding these traces we leave behind.

479
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.200
<v Speaker 1>We've definitely covered a lot today, from tiny digital dust

480
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:31.160
<v Speaker 1>motes on a hard drive all the way up to

481
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:36.200
<v Speaker 1>complex global cybercrime view through this lens of computer forensics.

482
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's this amazing intersection of technology, law, and well

483
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>human behavior, often in really unexpected ways.

484
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:46.680
<v Speaker 1>And hopefully this deep dive has shown you, the listener,

485
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.119
<v Speaker 1>that being well informed here isn't just about the text PACs.

486
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:54.480
<v Speaker 2>No, it's really about grasping human intent, understanding the incredibly

487
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.079
<v Speaker 2>meticulous process investigators follow, and seeing how critical digital evidence

488
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.480
<v Speaker 2>is in our justice. It holds people and companies accountable.

489
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>So here's a final thought to leave you with. As

490
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.559
<v Speaker 1>technology becomes even more embedded in everything we do, the

491
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.519
<v Speaker 1>phones in our pockets, the networks connecting us globally, what

492
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 1>new kinds of digital fingerprints are we creating, maybe without

493
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:16.440
<v Speaker 1>even realizing it, And how.

494
00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Might those new fingerprints change the future of investigations and

495
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe even our whole idea of privacy?

496
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Something to think about
