Speaker 1: All right, we're going hoys, got it going after your
Speaker 1: technical difficulties, so we're fine.
Speaker 2: This is the thing.
Speaker 1: This is the thing for me. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: do the typical interview question answer thing. I like to
Speaker 1: I like to do a little background and eventually, in
Speaker 1: our conversation your background comes out in terms of your
Speaker 1: experiences and whatnot. So yeah, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: It's the way we do it.
Speaker 1: The one thing I got to ask, though, is I'm
Speaker 1: not going to pronounce your last name because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: not do any justice. So if you could possibly do
Speaker 1: that for me, I'm horrible, I really am.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I
Speaker 2: appreciate that here well, and you can butcher it however
Speaker 2: you'd like. But my full name is Royce Durazzio. That's
Speaker 2: just the cleanest, easiest way to say it.
Speaker 1: You just way to do it, all right, Royce, Well,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here. Now going through, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: honest with you. I've been listening to a lot of
Speaker 1: your podcasts lately and it's not bad, no, but it
Speaker 1: seems like we have a little bit of a similarities
Speaker 1: in terms of what we have done. Possibly in some backgrounds,
Speaker 1: and then I was looking through your blog and I
Speaker 1: see that you do. You know, you write a little
Speaker 1: bit on some politics, but you're also just about, hey,
Speaker 1: what's happening, current events, et cetera. And I did hear
Speaker 1: one podcast that you did where you were talking about
Speaker 1: streaming and content creation. So I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ways we can go here, because I think all
Speaker 1: of those things are good topics to have, especially since
Speaker 1: everybody is trying to get into the podcast base. Everyone
Speaker 1: wants to be a content creator, et cetera, and I
Speaker 1: think they have a lot as a big false sense
Speaker 1: of what it takes to do this. You know, and
Speaker 1: your son's been doing this longer than me, so I'm
Speaker 1: sure you have a lot more stories. But I know
Speaker 1: you were doing the TikTok thing for quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Don't know if you still do. That's something I never
Speaker 1: got into. But you know, let's start with where you
Speaker 1: came from with your content creation and why. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: you can tell me why.
Speaker 2: You know, as you asked that, I think it goes
Speaker 2: further back than I realize, because I had an internet
Speaker 2: radio show before podcasting was a term, and we were
Speaker 2: in a guesthouse in Beverly Hills and we had four
Speaker 2: phone lines trunked like real phone lines trunked into each
Speaker 2: other and we would go live on RANT Radio and
Speaker 2: we did this underground show for like two years every Sunday.
Speaker 2: Podcasting came out and I didn't understand it at first.
Speaker 2: Turns out it just means recorded, so it goes that
Speaker 2: far back. The TikTok thing is a whole other ride.
Speaker 2: I fell into that during the pandemic, and that was
Speaker 2: based in a lot of irl stuff, but mostly Disney parks.
Speaker 2: And now I'm trying to break that whole thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, what attracted you to do in the underground radio?
Speaker 2: I've always loved radio. I grew up listening to Stern.
Speaker 2: I'm from the Philly suburbs and I just love talk.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got a face for radio, the gift
Speaker 2: of gaps. What's a good combination, And I think that
Speaker 2: especially in a day's world. And one of the reasons
Speaker 2: I'm loving substack so much is it's like perfect for
Speaker 2: audio and people are always looking and I love radio
Speaker 2: because it just forces you to listen. So I've just
Speaker 2: always loved radio. And one of the things that Stern
Speaker 2: did for me growing up was I felt like I
Speaker 2: was sitting in a room with contemporaries hanging out, and
Speaker 2: that added value, especially when you get to a point
Speaker 2: when you're growing up where you feel like you're all alone, right,
Speaker 2: So to have those familiar voices that would maybe inform
Speaker 2: me a little bit, make me laugh, there's value to that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always been more on the audio side personally
Speaker 1: as well. There's something about hearing a conversation without the
Speaker 1: distraction of visuals. But with this big push lately with
Speaker 1: all the podcast aggregators, hosts, everybody wants to go to viato.
Speaker 2: They think it's the thing.
Speaker 1: But you know, when I look at what's going on
Speaker 1: as statistics like, I still have more downloads, more and
Speaker 1: more interaction on my audio side than I do on
Speaker 1: the video side. Regardless, it's just two different worlds, two
Speaker 1: different ways of consuming it, two different people that want
Speaker 1: to want to go ahead and consume it a certain way. Really, so,
Speaker 1: I like audio. It allows you to focus and really
Speaker 1: hit the conversation. Now, with that being said, let's talk
Speaker 1: about your podcasts, because there's a few episodes I don't
Speaker 1: even know if we can talk about this. But one
Speaker 1: thing that drew my interest. I don't know how far
Speaker 1: you want to go because you're geting at vague about it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a shorter one is when you
Speaker 1: were talking about James Gunn a little bit. I really
Speaker 1: wasn't sure the whole story on that. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: given the nature of my podcast, by the way, it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty much current advanced politics geopolitics.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not sure how political.
Speaker 1: We're going to get, but this is something that really
Speaker 1: caught my attention given the Superman movie. And there's a
Speaker 1: few things that you said in terms of like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he stepped on people to get where he got,
Speaker 1: and you know, you didn't say exactly like that. I
Speaker 1: am that's just kind of how I heard it. But
Speaker 1: the reality is, can can you get more background on
Speaker 1: that situation and what you know and kind of what
Speaker 1: you heard secondhand? Because I wanted to get more detail
Speaker 1: on that. If you're okay talking about.
Speaker 2: It, I'm happy to talk about it, and I love
Speaker 2: that's what you chose. Uh So let me start with this.
Speaker 2: I grew up with some guys that wound up becoming
Speaker 2: close to and working with James. So what I have
Speaker 2: to say comes through those accounts, not through you know,
Speaker 2: reading things online. It's not even secondhand. I guess technically
Speaker 2: it's secondhand, but it's really it's firsthand. Right. So at
Speaker 2: the time that well, let me let me start with
Speaker 2: James as a as a person and as a writer.
Speaker 2: I personally, and this is just a personal opinion that
Speaker 2: he's a horrible writer. And if you want proof, go
Speaker 2: back to those Scooby Doo movies where he made scrappy
Speaker 2: do the villain? I mean, who does that? Right? Like?
Speaker 2: Who does that? Just so that's bizarre. So, but the
Speaker 2: first Guardians of the Galaxy was developed by a woman
Speaker 2: named Nicole Pearlman. I think it was about a decade
Speaker 2: in development. So he plucked it and she got some
Speaker 2: benefits off of it. I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: a producer credit or what. But he took everything with
Speaker 2: it and and he from what I heard through the
Speaker 2: people that I know, is that he kicked and screamed.
Speaker 2: He had a web series at the time, uh with
Speaker 2: with a raccoon puppet, I believe, and he got that
Speaker 2: going enough that he was able to say, I know
Speaker 2: how to do this. I know how to do this,
Speaker 2: and he's so, but what I what? I what I
Speaker 2: know that's more important and we're relevant to where you're
Speaker 2: going with this, is they went to those parties. I
Speaker 2: saw the photos from those the parties that my quote
Speaker 2: unquote former Well now they're former friends, so I can
Speaker 2: say that former friends went to where the uh priest
Speaker 2: and uh child party. I don't remember exactly what they
Speaker 2: called it, but it was either you you dressed up
Speaker 2: as a child or you dressed up as an abus
Speaker 2: or a priest. That was the premise, right, their premise,
Speaker 2: not mine. So it was I don't know if they
Speaker 2: called it priest and pedophiles, and you could go, well,
Speaker 2: that doesn't even make sense, but like, who really needs
Speaker 2: to waste that much time thinking about logic, right? And
Speaker 2: the kind of people they hang out with. Some of
Speaker 2: them are self proclaimed there's a band that they hang
Speaker 2: out with. So it was this type of group of people,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of familiar names that you would
Speaker 2: know that we're at these parties that I was told
Speaker 2: was at these parties. But moreover, when the whole thing
Speaker 2: broke with Disney, I had already seen those photos on
Speaker 2: the person's cell phone, who went to the party. The
Speaker 2: article that you may be referring to that I wrote
Speaker 2: about with the individual in it is somebody that I
Speaker 2: grew up with, and when I went to source the
Speaker 2: photos for my sub stack, I didn't realize that he
Speaker 2: would be in the in the picture, and it jarred me.
Speaker 2: And this is somebody, I mean, I grew up with
Speaker 2: someone who correct to the extent that I have IMDb
Speaker 2: credits with them. Okay, yeah, I'm sure that was a shock.
Speaker 2: The photo was a shock. I knew he was there,
Speaker 2: and I knew he was part of it, and I'm
Speaker 2: privy to a lot more than what I just said.
Speaker 2: But that's that's me laying the tracks for you, and
Speaker 2: so take it where you'd like. Well, you know, it's it's.
Speaker 1: Really really really getting down to I'm sure you can
Speaker 1: only say so much without getting in trouble, right, James
Speaker 1: gunn Is, He's he's a fairly powerful figure, I guess.
Speaker 2: In terms of with somebody for the truth, can you.
Speaker 1: Well, here's you want to know what I believe. I
Speaker 1: really don't give a damn who they are. If they
Speaker 1: did it, in my opinion, fuck him, I don't really care.
Speaker 1: I don't care how powerful they think. They are not
Speaker 1: gonna affect me personally, honestly, they're just not. They don't
Speaker 1: control my income. So you know, as far as as
Speaker 1: far as you're concerned, you mean, be as open as
Speaker 1: you want to be. But the reality is I personally
Speaker 1: didn't know about these parties that if he's involved in,
Speaker 1: and the tie to Disney, like, I didn't understand everything
Speaker 1: that was going on. I just I just know that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he just started coming up. Not
Speaker 1: sure why. I know that the movies he's been involved
Speaker 1: with where yeah, they're kind of like okay, but yet
Speaker 1: everybody's praising this guy. And so when I heard your
Speaker 1: podcast you're talking about this, you know, these allegations or
Speaker 1: whatever was going on with these parties kitty parties or
Speaker 1: pedophile parties if we want to call it that, I
Speaker 1: really really just caught my attention. I really was like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: what the hell's going on with this? And it really
Speaker 1: really raised the question because it sounds like you know
Speaker 1: a lot of people in that world right just from
Speaker 1: growing up with people, you have associations, and it's really
Speaker 1: like the stories that we always hear about this, I mean,
Speaker 1: are they really true? Is there a lot of that
Speaker 1: going on in Hollywood in general?
Speaker 2: Yes, really, there's a lot of that goes on in
Speaker 2: the world period. And not that I'm trying to flip
Speaker 2: it into a plug, but I literally just wrote an
Speaker 2: article that was really more of an info dump. It
Speaker 2: wasn't even really an article. It's literally an info dump.
Speaker 2: But when you stop and you look at that level
Speaker 2: of power and those people, it transcends party politics, it
Speaker 2: transcends religion and any other ideology, and at that point
Speaker 2: it becomes about nothing other than more power and more money.
Speaker 2: So that's why you'll never see the Epstein files, you know,
Speaker 2: because everybody is involved at that level.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that we can absolutely assume. And then
Speaker 1: since you brought that up, you know, also the other
Speaker 1: tie that everyone can see if you're actually just connecting
Speaker 1: the dots, even at a third grade level. Did he
Speaker 1: how was that not related?
Speaker 2: You know who?
Speaker 1: Everyone saw it? And then suddenly he gets off, you know,
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist. Really and as far as the
Speaker 1: Epstein files go, it's very evident that look, if there
Speaker 1: was nothing that was going on there, why was Jill
Speaker 1: saying Maxwell arrested?
Speaker 2: Why for what being a pimp only Well, I don't
Speaker 2: know how you. I mean, I think it's indisputable there
Speaker 2: was something going on, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was arrested for being a pimp. There's
Speaker 1: no list, but somehow they had to hold her. Now
Speaker 1: she's trying to negotiate, saying she's going to release names
Speaker 1: in the list. If Epstein wasn't who he was and
Speaker 1: didn't have the connections he did, why would he kill
Speaker 1: or not kill himself? However you want to coin that one.
Speaker 1: So there was a lot going on here that everyone's
Speaker 1: trying to hide and cover up. Obviously, to me, what
Speaker 1: I thought in the beginning, because I was looking at
Speaker 1: it from the geopolitical point of view, was they didn't
Speaker 1: want to release the list because I think personally, I
Speaker 1: don't know for sure, this is all conjecture, but I
Speaker 1: think that there was ties to world leaders that would
Speaker 1: really up to end everybody's world, and at the moment,
Speaker 1: they couldn't just release all these names because it would
Speaker 1: just be a shift form.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what.
Speaker 1: Was really going on in the beginning, But now I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure what's going on. So they have evidence,
Speaker 1: then they don't have evidence, Then they do have evidence.
Speaker 1: I mean, they had about two decade investigation into everything
Speaker 1: was doing, but somehow they don't have anything at all now,
Speaker 1: like it all just disappeared.
Speaker 2: Well, so I think what it really And it's interesting
Speaker 2: to talk about the idea that, oh, it'll bring down
Speaker 2: power structures and industries and all these things. But I
Speaker 2: think more importantly, it's just because Epstein is out of
Speaker 2: the picture doesn't mean that the leverage that he had,
Speaker 2: much like Diddy, doesn't hold value. So I think it's
Speaker 2: more about we don't want to release these things because
Speaker 2: we give away all the leverage we have on all
Speaker 2: these people. Why would we do that?
Speaker 1: That could be that could be the case. And while
Speaker 1: we may have leverage, it also sets the precedent so
Speaker 1: far that it's okay to get away with doing those
Speaker 1: heinous things. Though, I mean, if there's never gonna be
Speaker 1: accountability and they just keep getting away with it, so
Speaker 1: what does that say to the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: But I think that's the that's the raw truth. I
Speaker 2: think that And look, I mean Superman, so just let's
Speaker 2: bring this all up. And because it does so, Superman
Speaker 2: just opens up right, Superman is being produced. First of all,
Speaker 2: it's wild to me that he's directing the movie and
Speaker 2: the CEO at the same time. That should be considered
Speaker 2: a conflict of interest in Anythingeah, I heard you talk
Speaker 2: about that. Okay. So then on top of that, you
Speaker 2: have the whole politicization of the Superman movie. You have
Speaker 2: the James gun pedophilia accusations over the years and all
Speaker 2: of that michigas to use some Yiddish, and then you
Speaker 2: have the Trump of it all and the EPs. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's all so murky, and then you have people arguing
Speaker 2: like in ways that are just completely hypocritical because they
Speaker 2: can't see it for what it is. We live in
Speaker 2: a world where people at this level are not held
Speaker 2: accountable for their actions period. Has nothing to do with party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and that's true, But when did I mean,
Speaker 1: will we ever be able to hold anyone accountable in
Speaker 1: your in your opinion? And do you think it is
Speaker 1: ever gonna happen or is it just because they are
Speaker 1: in a powerful position that's just going to constantly be
Speaker 1: able to get away with the lifestyle they live.
Speaker 2: Well, I think Trump is like the velociraptor in the
Speaker 2: first Drassic Park, testing the weaknesses. So what Trump has
Speaker 2: done in as they like to call it, one point
Speaker 2: zero and now is continue to test the weaknesses in
Speaker 2: the system, which only opens it up for somebody who's smarter, sharper,
Speaker 2: and more able to do more damage. You know. That's
Speaker 2: I think the problem is that we're headed in that
Speaker 2: wrong direction. That's kind of one of the reasons that
Speaker 2: I think we need to start having more open conversation
Speaker 2: from the middle and really get back to like, I'm
Speaker 2: not here to persuade, and I don't mean literally with you,
Speaker 2: but like, I'm not here in the conversations I have
Speaker 2: with my audience or anybody or even you to persuade.
Speaker 2: I'm actually here to pick up something that I might
Speaker 2: not have thought of. And I think people need to
Speaker 2: get out of their silos. I see a lot of
Speaker 2: the same faces talking to the same people. It's like
Speaker 2: to make another James Gun reference, and I'll let the
Speaker 2: nerds pick this up on their own. But it's like
Speaker 2: the Toxic Avengers. When I see you know, the same
Speaker 2: six people you know circulating on the same podcast, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you guys are just yelling at the same audience. You're
Speaker 2: not producing any new conversation because that's too much work.
Speaker 1: That that's that's another conversation, and that's something I agree
Speaker 1: with me with you on.
Speaker 2: Now, Okay, we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: As far as far as the James Gun thing, I mean, Epstein,
Speaker 1: it is what it is. We know it's out there.
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate what's happening. But as far as James Gun
Speaker 1: is concerned, I don't even know how many I mean,
Speaker 1: how deep does this go with him? How long has
Speaker 1: this been going on with all these allegations, because I
Speaker 1: literally don't know. I never paid attention to the guy,
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, and I'm so engrossed with so
Speaker 1: many other things that I do on the podcast that
Speaker 1: I really if you only take so much in right,
Speaker 1: it's a crazy world right now, there's so much happening.
Speaker 2: How deep does that go that you know of? So
Speaker 2: the whole thing that happened with Disney in a nutshell
Speaker 2: was they started unearthing old tweets. This guy comes from
Speaker 2: the Troma world, so he's always sort of been the
Speaker 2: alternate guy, right, So he's always considered himself to be
Speaker 2: sort of a you know, I don't know what you
Speaker 2: want to use. A provocateur is the word he would use.
Speaker 2: I don't quite think. I don't think he's that witty.
Speaker 2: I think he wishes he was a provocateur. But he
Speaker 2: would say these outlandish things over the years on Twitter.
Speaker 2: He had relationships I cannot remember the name of the
Speaker 2: band where they're self proclaimed pedophiles. They just go after
Speaker 2: They would talk about going after young underage girls. Right,
Speaker 2: So he surrounded himself with these type types of people. Well,
Speaker 2: all I can tell you is that at the time
Speaker 2: that this happened, at the time that he was being fired. Okay,
Speaker 2: at the time he was working for Disney prior to
Speaker 2: being fired, he was having these parties because I know
Speaker 2: people that went there. And my one former friend came
Speaker 2: up to me and goes, look at what I wore,
Speaker 2: and he shows me his selfie where he dressed up
Speaker 2: like a child with a propeller hat on at the party.
Speaker 2: And I looked at him like, what is what is
Speaker 2: wrong with you? Like what part of you thinks this
Speaker 2: is something that I this is not entertaining. And then again,
Speaker 2: if you are suggesting you're a provocateur, there's no audience here.
Speaker 2: This is behind closed doors. So what I can verify,
Speaker 2: or what I can say verifiably is that those parties
Speaker 2: happened during that time. One of the people I know
Speaker 2: worked one of the people I knowed. I'm deciding if
Speaker 2: i want to say what I want to say, because
Speaker 2: somebody who's really sharp can put all the dots together.
Speaker 2: But one of the two people I'm talking about spent
Speaker 2: a long time getting close to James because it benefited
Speaker 2: their career, and it has to the extent that you'll
Speaker 2: find James has producer credits on all of their projects.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of one of those things where it's like,
Speaker 2: and that's the industry, right. I mean, I don't want
Speaker 2: to totally derail it, but I could tell you other
Speaker 2: stories of other situations, public stuff that you would know
Speaker 2: about where I've worked with people who openly talked about
Speaker 2: these things as if they were okay. And these are
Speaker 2: people who on paper should be speaking out against these things,
Speaker 2: but they turned a blind eye because of their career.
Speaker 2: And I'm talking about people that work with Cosby by
Speaker 2: the way, So it just it's sort of like one
Speaker 2: of these things where again and no, there's no party
Speaker 2: lines anymore. I could tell you that I'm a Democrat,
Speaker 2: I could tell you I'm a Republican, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: I'm making a ton of money. I'm turning a blind
Speaker 2: eye to your transgressions. Right, that's Hollywood. That's that's really everything.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't it's not fair to just pick on Hollywood.
Speaker 1: No, no, no no, but it's we're talking about Hollywood since
Speaker 1: we well I brought up the James Gunn thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's why we're discussing it. But you know it
Speaker 1: gets me, is I don't I don't have that mindset,
Speaker 1: like why what is attractive about a child? Like what
Speaker 1: is it about that type of person or people like
Speaker 1: that that they need to abuse and destroy children?
Speaker 2: Like why? I mean, I don't even want to have
Speaker 2: that conversation because then you're asking me to get inside
Speaker 2: that mindset. And I can only tell you because I
Speaker 2: know you listened to that particular episode that I've seen
Speaker 2: throughout my life a lot of this stuff firsthand, and
Speaker 2: I think it always comes back to the same thing.
Speaker 2: People like to see what they can get away with.
Speaker 2: I know it goes deeper, but generally speaking, when it
Speaker 2: comes to power and abuse, people like to see what
Speaker 2: they can get away with. Can I say anything on
Speaker 2: this podcast? Yeah? So I worked with a woman who
Speaker 2: at the time was over at NBC. Now, she said
Speaker 2: to us at lunch one day before this Bill Cosby
Speaker 2: stuff ever broke when Hannibalbarris broke it. She because she
Speaker 2: was a producer on The Cosby Show as a young woman,
Speaker 2: she said, very flippantly over lunch, as if it was
Speaker 2: about running an errand Bill Cosby used to force the
Speaker 2: pas to give him blowjobs, as if she said, Bill
Speaker 2: Cosby used to force the pas to pick up his
Speaker 2: dry cleaning. You know, it's just like what you do
Speaker 2: just part of your day. Now that woman has an oscar.
Speaker 2: She's I don't want to make this issue that it's
Speaker 2: not but on paper, you know, Democrat, Democrat supporter. And
Speaker 2: I know these things firsthand because I worked on campaigns
Speaker 2: by happenstance that she was on. And it's just the
Speaker 2: small world that way, uh, and went on to produce
Speaker 2: other people and you know, beyond Cosby and so so
Speaker 2: saw it for what it was back then, right, went
Speaker 2: on to trade off of other plights and get an oscar.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be a little vague there. And you
Speaker 2: know again you go, you look at this person, you go, well,
Speaker 2: I think that I thought you were like a liberal,
Speaker 2: and I thought you were like, these are the issues
Speaker 2: and and this is like you know me too, and
Speaker 2: all these things, but not when it not when it
Speaker 2: comes to self interest, right, But you have to ask
Speaker 2: yourself if you were in that situation, what would you
Speaker 2: really do? I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the thing I've I've brought up
Speaker 1: and other other conversations is like, for example, if we're
Speaker 1: talking about someone who's corrupt, right, we we think, we
Speaker 1: think we want our politicians and everybody that all of
Speaker 1: our heroes are infallible. Someone waves a hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: in your face. How infalliable? Fallible you're gonna be? You're
Speaker 1: gonna turn it down? Are you really gonna say no?
Speaker 2: Are you?
Speaker 1: Are you to say no if someone gives you a
Speaker 1: hundred million?
Speaker 2: But can we bring that back? Can we bring that
Speaker 2: back to the Epstein thing for a minute. Yep, And
Speaker 2: let's just trade that money, uh formula there for power formula.
Speaker 2: You're you're any of these people, your cash Betel, your
Speaker 2: Dan Bongino. Right, And you're brought into an admin right,
Speaker 2: and you get a look behind the curtain and you
Speaker 2: realize that you know you were manipulated to the extent
Speaker 2: that you know, Trump knew he was never going to
Speaker 2: release these Epstein files. Right, But now you're in a
Speaker 2: position of power and you're and you're being given the
Speaker 2: ultimate option. Do you give up your power or do
Speaker 2: you are you silence in exchange to keep it? Or
Speaker 2: do you choose to speak up and then become ostracized
Speaker 2: and become the enemy. And you can already see that
Speaker 2: Trump is taking the if you're not with me, you're
Speaker 2: against me approach by immediately turning anybody that doesn't agree
Speaker 2: with him, meaning his supporters, into the enemy to nullify
Speaker 2: this story. So it's just one of those things where
Speaker 2: you're like, you're you're trapped. Like I mean, imagine those
Speaker 2: guys coming in there and thinking that they were going
Speaker 2: to shed light on something and now that they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: we were stuck. I mean, it's like the ultimate chess move, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're as stuck as you want to be.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you.
Speaker 1: This is just really the moral argument, right, the argument
Speaker 1: the morality of the situation and the reality. And to me,
Speaker 1: it's you're going to have to make that choice. I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't want to destroy yourself, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: truth has to be told to make sure that we
Speaker 1: can you know, decapitate this power structure. And that's where
Speaker 1: that's really you know, what it comes down to. I mean, sure,
Speaker 1: do you want to be beholding held hostage by by
Speaker 1: some you know, greasy asshole who's who's literally just you know,
Speaker 1: has no moral compass whatsoever. It's taking advantage of the
Speaker 1: people in the system. I mean, I don't think most
Speaker 1: people would now. I think where people do not want
Speaker 1: to step out and where they don't want to bring down,
Speaker 1: you know, the kingdom, so to speak, is when their
Speaker 1: family is threatened. I think most people on the personal
Speaker 1: level can care less, but they don't want to sacrifice
Speaker 1: their family or the loved ones. And if that's just
Speaker 1: being held over the heads, and that's where the issue is.
Speaker 1: I believe someone like Dan Bongino, I mean, if you
Speaker 1: want to talk about that, everyone has their opinion on
Speaker 1: this whole thing that's going on with this MAGA movement
Speaker 1: and all these individuals and you know, self reclining influencers
Speaker 1: and whatnot. But you know, he gave up millions of
Speaker 1: dollars as a podcaster and wants to go ahead and
Speaker 1: now become you know, part of the FBI deputy director
Speaker 1: used to be a secret service agent. Great, he wanted
Speaker 1: to uncover things, so did Cash Mattel. The whole reason
Speaker 1: these guys, or at least Cash was even you know,
Speaker 1: GANI supporters, because he was supposed to expose bring things down.
Speaker 1: Then we can also have the conversation as to why
Speaker 1: the hell was Pambondi even put into the position she was.
Speaker 1: You know, as far as I was concerned, I didn't
Speaker 1: really see much of what she did anything in Florida.
Speaker 1: Sure she talked tough, but I mean.
Speaker 2: But maybe maybe she was put there to make sure
Speaker 2: that the files never get released. Maybe that's why those
Speaker 2: binders came out. And then they realized that we thought
Speaker 2: we could pull a fast one that didn't work, kick
Speaker 2: the can that didn't work.
Speaker 1: Here we are, yeah, exactly, And that was that was
Speaker 1: just that was it was hilarious.
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't beyond hilarious.
Speaker 1: That was the stupidest thing I've ever seen here to
Speaker 1: give you that.
Speaker 2: Would you take a picture with a binder celebrating that
Speaker 2: you that you've got pedophile documents? Like even if you were.
Speaker 1: It's not even just about that, whereas it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's you're the White House.
Speaker 2: You're the White House.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to be held to a higher standard, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna use influencers and give them this access that
Speaker 1: you won't give anybody else. Right, Well, that's say about
Speaker 1: your administration.
Speaker 2: But that's why Dan Bongino got the job, right, because
Speaker 2: the whole idea is that these people, this goes back
Speaker 2: to what you were saying about like family and doing
Speaker 2: things for the right reason. The problem is these folks
Speaker 2: are there for fame and power, and now a guy
Speaker 2: like Bongino is in the ultimate situation. And by the way,
Speaker 2: I was just kind of laughing more at the influencers
Speaker 2: holding the binders celebrating pedophilia. Even though they're anti pedophilia,
Speaker 2: they're still holding those binders and celebrating it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it, I get it. But but but so,
Speaker 2: But Bongino isn't like the ultimate like lose lose, win
Speaker 2: win scenario because he's got he gets to choose power
Speaker 2: or go back to his audience. But neither one of
Speaker 2: those are predicated on doing what's right. No, it's all
Speaker 2: about self interest, and I.
Speaker 1: Don't know him personally, so I mean we can only
Speaker 1: assume what he's thinking. But just from how he has
Speaker 1: carried himself and what he's done in media, I think
Speaker 1: he would have loved to have stayed on his podcast,
Speaker 1: you know. I think sometimes it's better to be on
Speaker 1: the outside. Once you're on the inside, you don't like
Speaker 1: what you see.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't necessarily say I can put any blame on
Speaker 1: him because he's not really in charge. He's he's debut director.
Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, he's towing the line. He's
Speaker 1: trying to be careful what he says in light of
Speaker 1: representing the FBI and also being you know, one of
Speaker 1: the prime picks by President Trump, right, he had Trump
Speaker 1: support himself. So I get where he's coming from. So
Speaker 1: I can't fault him. But the problem is is we're
Speaker 1: seeing an FBI that is really a repeat of what
Speaker 1: everybody else said was wrong about the previous administration's FBI.
Speaker 2: What's the damn difference at this point, There's never going
Speaker 2: to be a difference. That's that's why they call it
Speaker 2: the deep state. Well exactly, so, Litsten, here, here's what happens.
Speaker 2: You know, we just we mentioned Stern earlier. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I always used Stern as the analogy. Okay, Stern railed
Speaker 2: on iMOS his entire early career, Okay, and then Stern
Speaker 2: became Imus. Because it's inevitable no matter what your genre is, Okay,
Speaker 2: when you hit success, it's inevitable that you become the
Speaker 2: very thing you were railing against. So Bongino will probably
Speaker 2: leave at some point because he's better off being on
Speaker 2: the outside making money yelling at a boogeyman. And maybe
Speaker 2: maybe the boogeyman will become Trump, or maybe he'll find
Speaker 2: a new boogeyman. But once you're on the inside, now
Speaker 2: you're accountable for the things you were railing against. And
Speaker 2: then there's that reality check like, oh, we don't get
Speaker 2: to make these decisions, they're made at a higher level. Oh,
Speaker 2: we're never going to release any of this stuff because
Speaker 2: it's going to ruin all the power structures in the world.
Speaker 2: And welcome to the club. But you're indoctrinated now, and
Speaker 2: you're like, well, I don't want to be in this
Speaker 2: club anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm unfortunately the guy who says let it
Speaker 1: all fucking burn. I don't really care I mean I
Speaker 1: think the world needs a reset.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Now, as as far as you know Bonginos just as
Speaker 1: the example, I don't want to get stuck on just him.
Speaker 2: But no, but it's a very good example because it's
Speaker 2: a guy. It is like why did he get the job?
Speaker 2: It absolutely is a good example.
Speaker 1: But this really brings brings the old saying home, you know,
Speaker 1: like you don't know what you don't know?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And the thing about power, it does corrupt, Like let's
Speaker 1: let's let's take me you it doesn't even matter. You know,
Speaker 1: let's say one day we we don't know, what if
Speaker 1: we became a Joe Rogan one day? Right, what if
Speaker 1: that even happened. Could you imagine the pressures and and
Speaker 1: and everything that would be waved in front of you,
Speaker 1: you know, to tempt you to try to mold and
Speaker 1: shape you. I mean, once you get to a certain level,
Speaker 1: you don't want to let go of that. And I
Speaker 1: understand that.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But you know, as far as Bongina goes, I think
Speaker 1: he has enough. I think he has enough strength and
Speaker 1: enough of a moral backbone that I don't think he
Speaker 1: wants to.
Speaker 2: Be where he's at.
Speaker 1: I I think that he thought that he was getting
Speaker 1: into one situation where he was going to be able
Speaker 1: to make a difference, and now he's doing the Oh shit,
Speaker 1: what did I do?
Speaker 2: What did I do?
Speaker 1: Not that I was ever to be honest, you know,
Speaker 1: I was never a diehard fan. I respected who he
Speaker 1: was and what he did. Didn't agree with everything he said,
Speaker 1: but at least he had he stood for something. You know,
Speaker 1: he definitely wanted to expose, wanted to make sure that,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever was wrong was righted, and that's what
Speaker 1: he said. I mean, whether you're like you know, whether
Speaker 1: you're into being a Republican Democrat, mag to me, that
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. For the most part, a lot of his
Speaker 1: messaging was really about trying to right the wrongs. And
Speaker 1: now he's on the other side of it, and he's
Speaker 1: looking like a jackass. You know, not his fault. He
Speaker 1: didn't know what he was walking into.
Speaker 2: So well, that's that's exactly what I think it is.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, now he's in a he's
Speaker 2: caught in a catch twenty two because he's really damn
Speaker 2: no matter what he does, but his choices are power
Speaker 2: and money. I mean, he's gonna be fine either way,
Speaker 2: right and as long as he doesn't totally bite the hand,
Speaker 2: which is why if he does leave and go back
Speaker 2: to podcasting, that's going to be a tough nut to crack,
Speaker 2: because what are you gonna do. You're gonna start railing
Speaker 2: against Trump in the deep state. No, he won't do that.
Speaker 2: I mean he's but then what do you do? That's
Speaker 2: like there's a larger question there. If you want to
Speaker 2: go a little bit wider with this.
Speaker 1: Well, we can go wider, but at some point he's
Speaker 1: going to have to try to save face, just as
Speaker 1: anybody would.
Speaker 2: How does he do that? If you're in him right now?
Speaker 2: How do you play this?
Speaker 1: There's well, the only way to play it is to
Speaker 1: kind of go against your own laurels. To be quite honest,
Speaker 1: you would have to drum up the story that look,
Speaker 1: I got inside, it's so dirty, I can't clean it up.
Speaker 1: And you know, no matter what I did, I was
Speaker 1: under threat, I was under durest. I couldn't act out,
Speaker 1: and here I am. And while you're on the other side,
Speaker 1: there's no way that you would be able to say, Look,
Speaker 1: everything was Trump's fault. The Trump administration is filthy. He's
Speaker 1: not going to say that he is the setting president. Now,
Speaker 1: he's not going to lose his connections and his access,
Speaker 1: but he can spin it if he wanted to, just
Speaker 1: like most everybody could spin this, and anybody who's really
Speaker 1: savvy and media can spin this story and come out
Speaker 1: the other side not necessarily clean, but maybe you won't
Speaker 1: look so bad. And let's just not let's not go
Speaker 1: ahead and dismiss the fact that people have short memories.
Speaker 1: There's so much has gone on in the world that
Speaker 1: people forgot in three days. You know, I have his
Speaker 1: conversation with people all the time when we're talking about
Speaker 1: presidents and deportations and things like that. I'm like, wow, great,
Speaker 1: did you know that Bill Clinton deported twelve million?
Speaker 2: Did you know that Obama.
Speaker 1: Took seven hundred and fifty billion dollars away from Medicaid
Speaker 1: and raise taxes by one trillion? They go, No, this
Speaker 1: was your era. You worked in the administration at that time.
Speaker 1: You don't remember this, you know. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: the news cycle, right. There's the trick is this and
Speaker 1: you you probably know this way better than I. The
Speaker 1: trick is to overwhelm the public. You want to keep
Speaker 1: the new cycle spinning as fast as you can with
Speaker 1: enough flashy headlines that you can drum up to guide
Speaker 1: and misdirect people. It doesn't matter what happens. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're able to move quick enough in media and
Speaker 1: you've moved the new cycle fast enough, people forget. Because
Speaker 1: our attention spans today are so short that nobody really
Speaker 1: is going to clamp down on it like a bulldog
Speaker 1: and not let go of it. They're eventually just going like, well,
Speaker 1: hold on, what did Elon Musk just say? You know
Speaker 1: what happened? What a putin do? Their attention span is
Speaker 1: so short that I know. For fact, politicians and people
Speaker 1: that have the power, as you say, and the money,
Speaker 1: they know this.
Speaker 2: They know this. That's why there's always.
Speaker 1: The adage that, oh, they're rich and they're powerful, they're
Speaker 1: just going to get away with it because they know
Speaker 1: they will. If you could delay it long enough, if
Speaker 1: you could belay and delay the investigations, the prosecutions, et cetera,
Speaker 1: you're going to get away with it. People lose interests,
Speaker 1: and people are going to forget about it. And that's
Speaker 1: just a fact. It's just the reality of the world
Speaker 1: we live in. So it's unfortunate, but it's true.
Speaker 2: It's really true. That's that's the Steve Bannon strategy, flood
Speaker 2: the zone with shit. I mean, that is why he
Speaker 2: you know, Trump says I'm going to deport Rosie O'Donnell
Speaker 2: because he's trying to distract from the Epstein conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, but you'll see it through now here. Here's
Speaker 2: the thing, because you brought up a lot there that
Speaker 2: that I and I'm going to try to comment on
Speaker 2: all of it at once here. But you know, he's
Speaker 2: a show biz guy, for better or worse, and he
Speaker 2: fancies himself a show biz guy. So I could see
Speaker 2: a Bongino exit being like, listen, I know you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to go out there and you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: say what you need to say for your audience to
Speaker 2: save face. And I know you're gonna have to rail
Speaker 2: against me. But like we're good, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: I know that Trump knows that the game is played
Speaker 2: that way. I actually think not to derail this, but
Speaker 2: I think Trump and newsomer type I think so too. Well,
Speaker 2: they're they're pretty much family, you know that, right? Well?
Speaker 1: How many how often do you do you always see
Speaker 1: them at But you know when you can see footage
Speaker 1: of them at partis and whatnot. They're not They're not
Speaker 1: sitting there stabbing each other in the back. They're shaking
Speaker 1: hands or smiling, they're cracking jokes. They all know each other.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's there's there's definitely animosity between some absolutely,
Speaker 1: but they're all part of the same team.
Speaker 2: Realistically, they're all part of the same team. They're all politicians.
Speaker 1: They're all playing everybody for as you said, power and money,
Speaker 1: and it's all about manipulation, you know, it's misdirection, slight
Speaker 1: of hand, it's all that's exactly what we're dealing with.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like when we're the discussion came up about, uh,
Speaker 1: what Elon Musk wants to do, and I know you
Speaker 1: had an opinion on this with this whole third party thing.
Speaker 1: Great idea, it's not gonna happen and it's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: But we do need more diversity in our choices, we
Speaker 1: absolutely do. But there's just too much money and as
Speaker 1: you said, power within the two parties that it's never
Speaker 1: gonna come to light. It's just not gonna happen. As
Speaker 1: rich as Elon Musk is, he's not as rich as
Speaker 1: every single donor combined in the two parties. He's not
Speaker 1: gonna he's not gonna to break the surface. It's just
Speaker 1: not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think a third party is enough to
Speaker 2: break the surface anymore. No, it really won't.
Speaker 1: They've tried with a tea party they I mean, remember,
Speaker 1: Ross Perot was probably the only one back in the
Speaker 1: day with enough money to get enough attention. And he
Speaker 1: you know, he bumped it. He did, he did well,
Speaker 1: but still it just was not enough. And it's not
Speaker 1: saying that he was the perfect candidate to be a president,
Speaker 1: but it was a good example of what could be done.
Speaker 1: But in today's times, with the amount of bombardment of
Speaker 1: information and social media that everybody wakes up to and
Speaker 1: you just can't get away from it, good luck fighting that.
Speaker 1: You're just not going to be able to keep up
Speaker 1: with everybody else is going to just becoming at you
Speaker 1: from all these other angles. So I don't think the
Speaker 1: third party is going to work out. It's a great idea,
Speaker 1: does it need to happen? Sure we have the Libertarian Party,
Speaker 1: good luck with that too. They can't even decide whether
Speaker 1: or not they even want to be a political party.
Speaker 1: They have so much infighting because they can't agree on
Speaker 1: what they want to do, and they can't even agree
Speaker 1: on who's going to lead the damn Libertarian Party.
Speaker 2: It's just a shit show. Our choices and the independent
Speaker 2: parties come a workaround for anybody that needs to circumvent
Speaker 2: the rules. So you know, Andrew Cuomo is going to
Speaker 2: use it right now. But either party will use the
Speaker 2: independent ticket to play.
Speaker 1: People will they will? I think the independent ticket is
Speaker 1: is really coming down to the fact that people are
Speaker 1: just over it, but they they don't seem to.
Speaker 2: Know where to turn. Running Is Cuomo running is? Excuse me,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Cuomo running is an independent? That that just
Speaker 2: further proves how broken the Democrat Party is, absolutely because
Speaker 2: here's no room for a real independent if you're basically
Speaker 2: trying to flip the script and make and make the
Speaker 2: nominee of the Democrat Party the independent candidate, that's what
Speaker 2: he's trying to do.
Speaker 1: No, completely under I completely understand. I get what he's doing,
Speaker 1: and he is sending a clear message. You know, look,
Speaker 1: if we want to talk about parties, great, let's let's
Speaker 1: talk about parties. They both suck honestly, they both got
Speaker 1: their issues. The Democrat Party is probably the most broken
Speaker 1: at this point because there isn't a clear leader. There
Speaker 1: really is not, sadly, I mean, years ago, a lot
Speaker 1: of people, including like me, would we were Democrat, voted Democrat,
Speaker 1: you know, but there were a different party back then
Speaker 1: in the day. They've morphed into something else that nobody recognizes,
Speaker 1: and they do not seem to be able to get
Speaker 1: a pulse on what the people are really wanting and
Speaker 1: what is actually needed. It's they're too busy putting themselves first.
Speaker 1: Now that can also be argued Trump's doing the same
Speaker 1: damn thing. Sure, but he won on the message of
Speaker 1: putting America first. That's what everybody wanted. We can argue
Speaker 1: whether or not, and he's coming through in US promises.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we could. But the Democrat Party right now
Speaker 1: does not have a leader. Who's next? Who's the rising star?
Speaker 1: AOC police not going to happen, Crockett.
Speaker 2: No Buddha jet like. Who is going to step up
Speaker 2: and actually be the leader of that party? I hope
Speaker 2: it's somebody whose name we do not know at the moment.
Speaker 1: I agree it would be great to suddenly like if
Speaker 1: there was some dark horse that just all of a
Speaker 1: sudden popped up and was able to move the needle
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh wow, okay, this is what I've
Speaker 1: been looking for.
Speaker 2: This makes sense.
Speaker 1: But it's not even just about that anyone could tell
Speaker 1: the story and get the votes. It's really about are
Speaker 1: you going to actually do what you say? Or once
Speaker 1: you're in there, are you going to let like you said,
Speaker 1: the deep state takeover and you just become that damn
Speaker 1: puppet on a string.
Speaker 2: Well, they're never going to get the chance. That's the
Speaker 2: real issue because somebody, because if somebody did rise up,
Speaker 2: if this mythical creature rose up, okay, that they would
Speaker 2: be squashed by the establishment. That's the problem is that
Speaker 2: the Democrat Party is run like a high school click
Speaker 2: and everything comes from the DNC and is dictated outward
Speaker 2: and until that could be I mean, look at what
Speaker 2: happened with Dave. I don't even like the guy, but
Speaker 2: look at what happened with David Hogg.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was supposed to be the face of the DNC.
Speaker 2: He was supposed to be the the that's very I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm sure him, I'm sure him and Dan Bongino could
Speaker 2: have a really good conversation over a beer. Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: sure about getting too close to the sun. I'm very sure.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna Okay, let's do this because I
Speaker 1: want to move into different directions. But before we do,
Speaker 1: let me ask your opinion on Trump. What's your thoughts?
Speaker 2: I think Trump Trump is oddly one of the most
Speaker 2: consistent politicians we have ever had. And if you go
Speaker 2: back and you look at that interview he did in
Speaker 2: his thirties, and I never remember who the woman was
Speaker 2: the interviewed him. I always forget her name. I want
Speaker 2: to say it was Ronna Barrett. But he he is
Speaker 2: somebody that every but he loved because he said really
Speaker 2: shocking stuff. And at the same time, people on all
Speaker 2: sides were asking him his entire life to consider running
Speaker 2: for office. It wasn't until he chose to come down
Speaker 2: the escalator and play the playbook that I guess he
Speaker 2: inevitably was always going to play a La roy Cone
Speaker 2: that he started, you know, pissing people off. But I
Speaker 2: think Trump is is not a product of our culture.
Speaker 2: I think that like we we just caught up. Like
Speaker 2: I think we just caught up. I mean he's consistent.
Speaker 2: I don't think we bred him. I think that he's
Speaker 2: always been there. He's been in rap songs, he's he's
Speaker 2: been in movies. Yeah, he's he's iconic. And it was
Speaker 2: only until he got into politics and showed people how
Speaker 2: he would actually do things, despite what he said all along,
Speaker 2: despite all the wild things he would say on The
Speaker 2: Stern Show, And then people are like, well, wait a second,
Speaker 2: we don't actually think if this is the way you're
Speaker 2: going to lead, that you should be a leader. Like
Speaker 2: it's buyer's remorse. It's buyer's remorse.
Speaker 1: Ye, good way to put it. Yeah, he's he's he's
Speaker 1: not presidential. That's that's the thing about him. He's not
Speaker 1: hilarious absolutely. I mean I like that he has no filter,
Speaker 1: but at the same time gets him into trouble for sure,
Speaker 1: And who the hell talks to world leaders the way
Speaker 1: he does?
Speaker 2: Right, By the way, hilarious doesn't mean I like him.
Speaker 2: I can objectively say somebody's hilarious, right, but people, we can't.
Speaker 2: We live in a world where that's that will be
Speaker 2: taken as an endorsement. Well, yeah, that's true. You don't
Speaker 2: have to like him. It's fine.
Speaker 1: I mean, we all don't have to agree on on
Speaker 1: candidates and who we back or whatever it is. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who voted for him that
Speaker 1: are now now looking at the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of promises that he made that he's
Speaker 1: not coming through. A lot of things he did were fine,
Speaker 1: a lot of things were great, But there's always the
Speaker 1: real argument here has always been we never had a
Speaker 1: perfect president. The problem with this guy, you know, even
Speaker 1: though he's human like all of them, is he has
Speaker 1: no damn filter. He's I mean, who the hell Arizon
Speaker 1: Grievance is out on social media? You're the fucking president.
Speaker 1: You're the president man a drug addict.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's like, what are you doing? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I know, it's well that's what I'm saying. It's hilarious,
Speaker 2: but it's also scary at the same time, right, Like
Speaker 2: I can laugh at it, but then also be like
Speaker 2: this is this is absolutely terrible. We're all gonna die, right,
Speaker 2: but how do you not laugh? You know? I mean,
Speaker 2: what else was someone I gonna do? Cry? Well? What
Speaker 2: is the reaction? The reaction? Look, I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of things that Trump has done that. If the
Speaker 2: messenger was different, he would have been applauded. Because he's Trump.
Speaker 2: It's it's bad branding, right, you know, maybe it's not
Speaker 2: because he won so but at least to the opposition, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a lot of people that just won't,
Speaker 2: that will openly not give this man credit for anything
Speaker 2: because they despise him. I don't despise him at that level.
Speaker 2: I used to watch The Apprentice at nauseum because I
Speaker 2: thought he was hugely entertaining. But I didn't even if
Speaker 2: I thought he could have been a good president, this
Speaker 2: version of him is not capable of being a good president.
Speaker 2: He's got moments where he's effective, right, but he is
Speaker 2: surrounded by some really dangerous people. I don't and it cares. No,
Speaker 2: he doesn't care because it's all about again self interest. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's self interesting. Honestly, this is last term, Like he
Speaker 2: doesn't care. What comes next is what comes next is
Speaker 2: far more dangerous and more concerning. Peter feel backed JD.
Speaker 2: Vance presidency has the ability to do far more damage
Speaker 2: to this country than anything Trump's capable of doing because
Speaker 2: his brain can't move fast enough.
Speaker 1: The thing with Vance's I can see what you're saying
Speaker 1: and why it would be dangerous to the degree that
Speaker 1: you're speaking or where you're coming from, because Vance is
Speaker 1: a polished person who knows how to present himself and
Speaker 1: knows how to speak while he's eloqu when he's educated,
Speaker 1: he's everything. And Trump is educated too. But Trump just
Speaker 1: doesn't care. You know, He's always been rich and famous,
Speaker 1: he's always been powerful, so in his mind, this was
Speaker 1: just another notch on his belt.
Speaker 2: Honestly, you can tell he said in that interview in
Speaker 2: his thirties that he would only because she asked him again,
Speaker 2: can I never get her name right? But she asked him,
Speaker 2: would you run? And he said, I would only ever
Speaker 2: run if I was broke because people would elect me
Speaker 2: because they'd feel sorry for him. He is so honest
Speaker 2: in this interview in his thirties. Yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: a version of him that we don't see. And I
Speaker 2: watched this thing from like from end to end with
Speaker 2: my jaw on the ground because it was just so
Speaker 2: fascinating to hear how open he was. But Trump is
Speaker 2: a guy that is just smart enough to get away
Speaker 2: with a lot of things, and just smart enough to
Speaker 2: keep the house of cards going and a lot of
Speaker 2: that he learned from other people. Yeah, do you think
Speaker 2: he's done anything good? Oh? Yeah, yeah. I mean even
Speaker 2: when he's doing bad, I think he's doing good because
Speaker 2: I think that you need the bad to breed the good.
Speaker 2: So I think that if Trump is showing the worst
Speaker 2: signs the were sides of what this country has to offer,
Speaker 2: that maybe it'll breed better leadership and maybe this is
Speaker 2: rock bottom and we can actually get somewhere productive. But
Speaker 2: I don't think the Democrats have anything to offer towards
Speaker 2: that solution. No, they don't. We need we need a
Speaker 2: guy like you. What we need is a guy like you.
Speaker 2: Did you? Who is this girl who she just lost
Speaker 2: but she was running with a discord and a TikTok,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. No, I wish I
Speaker 2: could remember her name right now. Our last name was Fox.
Speaker 2: I really don't recall. Well, the primary was yesterday. The
Speaker 2: primary was yesterday, And I apologize for not remembering her
Speaker 2: name her first name.
Speaker 1: Literally, been doing nothing but interviews and podcasts, so like,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of disconnected, even though you know I should
Speaker 1: know that, since it's the nature of my what I do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I literally have been disconnected. I've just been
Speaker 1: having podcasts after podcasts after guests since and I'm finding
Speaker 1: that I'm learning stuff from people I'm talking to in
Speaker 1: real time. I'm like, what, I don't know that I should, So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I apologize, I don't.
Speaker 2: I really only got dialed into her in the last
Speaker 2: three days to be fair, right, So, but she she
Speaker 2: didn't win, but her campaign she was. She's an influencer,
Speaker 2: and she wound up using discord. Interesting, and I think
Speaker 2: that's that's really that the next generation. So I think
Speaker 2: that when you talk about rebooting and overhauling, it'll be
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of people that are doing direct to
Speaker 2: consumer politics that doesn't involve money, that just involves online organizing.
Speaker 1: I mean, could you just imagine if they got rid
Speaker 1: of all of the lobbyists and influence.
Speaker 2: You don't have to it, you just circumvent it. Why
Speaker 2: do we keep asking people for money? All right? Just
Speaker 2: five more dollars, George, just listen, help me out, just
Speaker 2: five more dollars. We didn't make our goal, and we're
Speaker 2: still not going to make our goal. And I'm going
Speaker 2: to ask you again tomorrow, just five more dollars. I'm like,
Speaker 2: how much more money do you frigging people need. You're
Speaker 2: running on the fact that people are barely getting by,
Speaker 2: so stop asking for money. So the way we take
Speaker 2: money out of politics is to just not allow money
Speaker 2: to rule our politics. Start electing people using social media
Speaker 2: it's free. Well yeah, but that's that's not the people's choice. Really,
Speaker 2: that's up to the politician to do that. So there's
Speaker 2: but she's a disruptor, and she's she's a proof of
Speaker 2: what's to come because somebody will do it louder and
Speaker 2: harder than her, and maybe it will be her next time.
Speaker 2: But when it's that disruptive, they won't be able to
Speaker 2: stop it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's also a big reason, like it's
Speaker 1: not new though, right, that's that's a big part of
Speaker 1: why Trump got elected. He did take advantage of social media.
Speaker 1: You know, he also had the money, but he was
Speaker 1: a different extremely popular and social media.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's but but look, I mean Trump, you
Speaker 2: know they say he wasn't a politician. Trump was a politician, right,
Speaker 2: He's a businessman. He was. He's a big time donor.
Speaker 2: He may have been on the outside, but he was
Speaker 2: he was in that world. We're talking about young folks
Speaker 2: from the outside that aren't in it for money or
Speaker 2: power or book deals that are like, hey, I got
Speaker 2: a job, let me just come do you know, pass
Speaker 2: some legislation, get some stuff through, help the people, and
Speaker 2: go home and go back to work. But that's the
Speaker 2: way it should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean that's the whole I mean, you're
Speaker 1: talking about a unicorn man, and honestly, you know, everybody
Speaker 1: has that intent. There's okay, not everybody, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people do have that intent. Most people who want
Speaker 1: to get into politics want to change and help. They're
Speaker 1: not necessarily getting into it because they know unless they
Speaker 1: come up from a long line, you know, within a
Speaker 1: family that was already involved in politics. But most people
Speaker 1: from the outside, they don't know what they're getting into.
Speaker 1: I think the corruption just it just comes with a job,
Speaker 1: and it's almost like you got to pick and choose
Speaker 1: your battles and your poisons. I think most people start
Speaker 1: wanting to make a change, but once you get in there,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's it's a cess pullman, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to ward all that stuff off, all all the
Speaker 1: all the influence, all the all the money, all how
Speaker 1: are everything that comes with it. It's hard to stay
Speaker 1: the course.
Speaker 2: No, I get it, but that doesn't mean it can't
Speaker 2: be done. And I mean, you know, if you just
Speaker 2: look at innovation as a whole, it's never easy. But
Speaker 2: so one of the guys I interviewed when I first
Speaker 2: started my podcast was a guy former mayor by the
Speaker 2: name of Keith Ramos in New Jersey, small town. He
Speaker 2: got involved in the politics because he got involved with
Speaker 2: politics because he went up to the current mayor at
Speaker 2: the time after a meeting, after a public meeting, and
Speaker 2: ask him some questions about how money was being allocated.
Speaker 2: And the mayor turned to him and goes, you don't
Speaker 2: ask me these kind of questions. I'm the king of
Speaker 2: this town. And he's like, did you really just say
Speaker 2: that to me? And he ran and he beat this
Speaker 2: guy and he was able. And I can't represent what
Speaker 2: he did eloquently enough to even try right now, but
Speaker 2: he made a difference in his town. And I said
Speaker 2: to him, what's next, you know, like, because you would
Speaker 2: think now you move on right, you go a little
Speaker 2: bit higher up the ladder, but it comes back to
Speaker 2: just your point, and it's a lot of work. And
Speaker 2: I don't you know, doesn't know if his family is
Speaker 2: ready for it. And you know, once you dip your
Speaker 2: toe into the bigger pool, you open yourself up to
Speaker 2: all sorts of exposure and it's a big decision. But
Speaker 2: this is a guy I was, a working class guy
Speaker 2: from the outside, didn't like what a politician said to
Speaker 2: his face and took the reins so it could be done. Oh,
Speaker 2: I know. Could.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be too negative about it.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying this for your benefit. I know you
Speaker 2: know these things. I'm saying people listening because it's the
Speaker 2: people listening that are going to run.
Speaker 1: It's quite okay to have an opinion, and it's also
Speaker 1: okay to be disenchanted about the whole situation as far
Speaker 1: as I feel, because it's we all want better, we
Speaker 1: all want change. I don't disagree with what you said.
Speaker 1: Absolutely you're correct. If there's a possibility, fine, but there's
Speaker 1: nothing new under the sun. I mean, like you said,
Speaker 1: the lady that was using discord whatever. Look, it's all
Speaker 1: that is is the delivery. It's just the way you're communicating.
Speaker 1: But outside of that, you still have to present yourself
Speaker 1: as someone that the people want. You got to make
Speaker 1: people believe that you really, truly, in fact, do you
Speaker 1: want to make the change, and you're gonna do it
Speaker 1: on behalf of the people. And so now it comes
Speaker 1: down to the reality, who's the better salesperson? Regardless of
Speaker 1: what's in your heart, it's whoever the better sales person is.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is politics is really nothing
Speaker 1: more than a high school popularity contest. There are so
Speaker 1: many inept people without qualifications that are voted into positions
Speaker 1: just because oh.
Speaker 2: I know that name.
Speaker 1: They look on their Oh yeah, I've heard that commercial.
Speaker 1: You don't even know anything about the guy.
Speaker 2: But so you're absolutely right. But that brings it right
Speaker 2: back to our earlier conversation about television, because TV turned
Speaker 2: it into a popularity contest. Yes, it did. In the
Speaker 2: era of radio, you would be able to listen to
Speaker 2: the message, not be staring at the messenger, right, But
Speaker 2: there's still influence in radio as well, of course, but
Speaker 2: it was a huge shift to be able to now suddenly,
Speaker 2: you know, optics literally factored in.
Speaker 1: Are you talking about government syops?
Speaker 2: No, I'm just talking about the fact that as soon
Speaker 2: as you have television and with you no I know,
Speaker 2: but as soon as you have television the conversation just
Speaker 2: because oh, look at him.
Speaker 1: No, you're right, It's it's easier to manipulate with when
Speaker 1: you have the visual component. You can always imagine what
Speaker 1: the person is. You know, you could drum up. It's
Speaker 1: like reading a book, right, if you read a book,
Speaker 1: Like movies and books are the same thing, really just
Speaker 1: one's the visual component. But when you read the book,
Speaker 1: you have a whole different idea of character, You have
Speaker 1: an entire different idea of what this world is as
Speaker 1: person lives in. And then when you see the movie,
Speaker 1: that's why you're disappointed. You're like, this is not what
Speaker 1: I read. This isn't what I drumed up in my
Speaker 1: mind that I was getting behind, or what I loved.
Speaker 1: And so that visual component is needed to manipulate people absolutely,
Speaker 1: But with audio you can't. If it was just an
Speaker 1: audio side, it's easy for the candidate to also hide
Speaker 1: behind as well. It's it's harder to make the connection.
Speaker 1: It's some people are sad enough to tell when someone's lying.
Speaker 1: Like you just look at and you're like, this guy's yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy's full of shit, right, you could tell at
Speaker 1: the gate, but you know you're not wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the visual component. It's Look, it's a big part
Speaker 2: of marketing. It's what it is. Everything.
Speaker 1: Everything we're talking about in campaign is just marketing and sales.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what your stance is. It's how you
Speaker 1: can sell it.
Speaker 2: It really is.
Speaker 1: If you know how to talk and you're eloquent, that's
Speaker 1: what people are going to eat up. You know, it's
Speaker 1: in the Bomb administration is a big bondministration is a
Speaker 1: big example of that. Everybody thinks he was the best ever.
Speaker 2: No, he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He was an amazing speaker. He knew how to talk,
Speaker 1: he knew how to present, so when he spoke, you
Speaker 1: had to pay attention and everything he said because of
Speaker 1: his timing, his you know, everything that he did and
Speaker 1: how he spoke, people just ate it up. But not
Speaker 1: everything he did was great. And I'm not here to
Speaker 1: bash him. I'm just using him as an example of
Speaker 1: somebody that can be a very polished, presentable person if
Speaker 1: you keep your tone the way you need to keep it,
Speaker 1: if you have a certain tone, if you have enough
Speaker 1: pause that allows people to sit there and think. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: it's an old trick. If I'm talking to you and
Speaker 1: I just paused for three seconds something. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to shake my head. That's an old sales trick. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I had a sales rep firm. I know
Speaker 1: how to do all this crap. And eventually you're just
Speaker 1: going to say the first thing on your mind.
Speaker 2: And you're either going to agree with me or not.
Speaker 1: But more than likely you're going to start agree with
Speaker 1: me because you don't want to have that awkward moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And the thing with Obama, I mean you're
Speaker 2: talking about that, that's not just Obama. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: Obama's first term, I think he, you know, came out strong.
Speaker 2: I think his second term was all lame duck. Obama
Speaker 2: had great speech writers and he was a strong orator.
Speaker 2: So you know, when that guy can get up there
Speaker 2: and play the teleprompter like he's Hendricks, then yeah, it's
Speaker 2: gonna work. Now people will some people will say Trump
Speaker 2: is not a good messenger, but you could argue he's
Speaker 2: a very effective messenger for all the wrong reasons. So
Speaker 2: it just depends. I mean, part of it has to
Speaker 2: come with the tone of the country, right. I think
Speaker 2: that again we caught up to somebody like Trump or
Speaker 2: enough people did where they're like, Okay, well we identify
Speaker 2: with that as real talk. We'll take it. We don't
Speaker 2: want to be spoken down to. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I think what it was is, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people felt he was saying what they
Speaker 1: always wanted to say themselves, and he always has yeah,
Speaker 1: And they saw someone who wasn't ones that mincing words,
Speaker 1: wasn't holding back, like oh shit, now that's my guy.
Speaker 1: And that was the appeal. I really was the appeal.
Speaker 1: And yes he is a politician, but look, we're not
Speaker 1: going to fix this, Royce, We're not. I like having
Speaker 1: this conversations. I like having you know, I like having
Speaker 1: other people's perspective and what they think of the situation.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know where we're going with this.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's next. I mean, honestly, I wish
Speaker 1: a president who was elected can just throw away the
Speaker 1: party politics. I'm tired of everything being so politicized. I
Speaker 1: want the president to actually look out for America and
Speaker 1: look out for the people. It doesn't matter whether or
Speaker 1: not the Republican Party is getting points to the Democratic
Speaker 1: parties get point. I think at that point, when you
Speaker 1: become president, you should be neutral. You should be centered, right,
Speaker 1: That's what you should be because you've got to work
Speaker 1: with both sides to get anything done. I don't know
Speaker 1: when that's going to change, but man, we need that
Speaker 1: so badly.
Speaker 2: Really, I agree. I don't know how we get back
Speaker 2: to it. And again, maybe maybe this is rock bottom
Speaker 2: and there's nowhere to go but up. If it's not
Speaker 2: rock bottom, then we have unfortunately a long way to go. Agreed.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about media, because you kind of alluded
Speaker 1: to that earlier when you're talking about podcasters and basically
Speaker 1: everybody having this this circle of friends, right, I see
Speaker 1: the same guys all over the place. They're all stroking
Speaker 1: each other's egos and patting each other on the back.
Speaker 1: And you know, I could drop names because like you
Speaker 1: got like the Dave Smith with the Tucker Carlson's and
Speaker 1: the Rogans, and then you know, now you have Daryl Cooper,
Speaker 1: the martyr made guy. It's like, no matter what happens
Speaker 1: with Peers Morgan, no matter what anybody says, it seems
Speaker 1: like this whole team just jumps to their aid and goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're the you're the man. And you also got Dave
Speaker 1: Smith thinking he wins every damn argument, there is a
Speaker 1: debate regards of what he says or what his takes are.
Speaker 1: So I you know, the the problem I see with
Speaker 1: that is, you know, it's a blatant to me, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if everybody does intentional. But for example,
Speaker 1: let's let's just talk about you don't have to, but
Speaker 1: I will. Let's just talk about like Daryl Cooper, for example.
Speaker 1: I think he's an intelligent guy. He denies he's an historian,
Speaker 1: but then he says he is one. If someone calls
Speaker 1: him a historian, all of a sudden he has one.
Speaker 1: If he gets called on his shit, then all a
Speaker 1: sudden he's not. He makes comments right, all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, you know, he was Okay,
Speaker 1: he was just misunderstood. I don't understand what it is
Speaker 1: about this revisionist history bullshit that we're going through right now.
Speaker 1: And the reality is we could all look back one
Speaker 1: hundred years, fifty years even and always say, you know,
Speaker 1: we should have done it this way.
Speaker 2: They were wrong.
Speaker 1: There's a big difference of living through the time period
Speaker 1: versus scrutinizing what has been done before you were born.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on this? To me, it
Speaker 1: just seems like this big circle of friends are just
Speaker 1: patting each other on the bat. They're pushing each other's narratives,
Speaker 1: and it's like they're ganging up to keep control of media.
Speaker 1: Because podcasting is media. Podcasting is a big business, and
Speaker 1: as many people who want to think that it isn't.
Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you, but it's an industry.
Speaker 1: What's your thoughts on what happening lately with this movement
Speaker 1: with these podcasters who just seem to be doing nothing
Speaker 1: but making sure that they're the first and only voice heard,
Speaker 1: and anybody who has an objection is suddenly a deranged
Speaker 1: idiot that doesn't have their facts straight.
Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I think of is like an
Speaker 2: Ian Carroll, Okay, yeah, because when you talk about the
Speaker 2: Holocaust and Hitler and all of these I shouldn't say all,
Speaker 2: but a lot of these folks they they practice a
Speaker 2: how can I say this, They practice a faux intellectual curiosity. Okay,
Speaker 2: So it becomes okay to ask questions in their mind,
Speaker 2: all right, and in the in the guise of well,
Speaker 2: we don't know this and we don't know that, and
Speaker 2: it becomes this fake intellectual curiosity, but it's very, very dangerous,
Speaker 2: and they love to do that when it comes to
Speaker 2: the Holocaust and anti Semitism. Okay, I think from the
Speaker 2: independent content creator journalist perspective, I don't think there's much
Speaker 2: of a thing as an independent content creator. If you
Speaker 2: go look at most of these folks, the big ones,
Speaker 2: not all a lot of them. They trace back to
Speaker 2: night coo okay, they trace back to Chernin, Peter Chernan's
Speaker 2: Churning Group, which is backed by Katari money, the Qia Okay,
Speaker 2: Chernin has investment. The Churning Group has investments in Spotify,
Speaker 2: which obviously has a deal with Brogan. They're invested in Nightco,
Speaker 2: which manages Chi Senate and Hassan I believe, and the
Speaker 2: Costco guys. So when you see all these independent creators,
Speaker 2: whether we're talking politics or we're just talking creators, they're
Speaker 2: generally being funded and managed by only a handful of people.
Speaker 2: They have the illusion of independent. Go down that rabbit
Speaker 2: hole of Nightco. I think it was his name, Red Rusher,
Speaker 2: Go down that rabbit hole of Nightco and Churning Group,
Speaker 2: and you see how much of that money is all
Speaker 2: that those independent companies funnel back to that money.
Speaker 1: I think you think it's just being controlled by just
Speaker 1: a small handful of people, like, here's the personality we
Speaker 1: can get behind this guy, and now once they got
Speaker 1: him to a certain level, they're just controlling the narrative.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's that thought out. I think
Speaker 2: it's more like, no, I really don't. I think it's
Speaker 2: more like, this is business and we don't really give
Speaker 2: a ship what people are saying on either side as
Speaker 2: long as they're keeping things murky and people arguing, right, okay,
Speaker 2: because at the top, none of this exists. They're all
Speaker 2: all these politicians on both sides of the aisle are
Speaker 2: doing blow and shots on K Street together. Okay, to
Speaker 2: go back to Gavin Newsom, Gavin Newsom's ex wife was
Speaker 2: dating Donald Junior Trump Junior. Yeah, okay, it's all everybody's.
Speaker 2: Everybody's hanging out. Okay. So at a certain level, they're
Speaker 2: all they're all in there in their one percent club,
Speaker 2: all right, and we're stuck playing this this game of
Speaker 2: party politics or identity politics, or whatever you want to
Speaker 2: call it. And I and I just think that we
Speaker 2: were blinded by that because at the end of the day. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's are there people out there trying to do
Speaker 2: an independent thing? Yes, I don't think that the controlled
Speaker 2: independent media is necessarily being handed a narrative. But I
Speaker 2: think when the people at the top are making money
Speaker 2: off of whatever they're saying, they don't give a shit
Speaker 2: what they're saying because ultimately they get the final word
Speaker 2: because they control the purse strings. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But these guys are also extremely disingenuous. Oh yeah, because
Speaker 1: Sean Ryan, for example, I remember watching one of his
Speaker 1: appearances on Talker for example, the whole time, I'm not
Speaker 1: in it for the money. I hate the money. I'll
Speaker 1: never do it at the And on the other hand, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm building this multimillion dollar studio.
Speaker 2: Well, which is it.
Speaker 1: You want to do it or you don't want to
Speaker 1: do You're in it for the money or not. If
Speaker 1: you didn't care, why are you putting so much investment
Speaker 1: of your time and money into this thing? Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of people like that come to
Speaker 2: mind that you're just in this for money, you know,
Speaker 2: because if you all got together and actually wanted to
Speaker 2: affect something, you could, but you don't want to erode
Speaker 2: your revenue. I mean, there are some people out there.
Speaker 2: I like that. There's some that I can think of,
Speaker 2: and I really I don't want to get in the
Speaker 2: pointing fingers because some of these people I kind of
Speaker 2: have dealt with in the past, so I don't feel
Speaker 2: like blowing that up yet yet. But there's some organizations
Speaker 2: out there that went from anti Trump to fundraising off
Speaker 2: of that too. Now we're a media company and we're
Speaker 2: no longer a pack and you're like, oh, so this
Speaker 2: whole thing was just a scheme to launch a media enterprise,
Speaker 2: and now all you did was fundraise to build prop
Speaker 2: up your quote unquote independent media outlet, you know, and
Speaker 2: now you're out there continuing that grift. Yeah, well the
Speaker 2: grift is real. Listen, I've been accused of grifting. I'm
Speaker 2: a live streamer from TikTok. That's all I've been accused
Speaker 2: of is grifting.
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's it's and it's not for me to
Speaker 1: get you to talk badly about anyone in particular. But
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have a problem calling out people.
Speaker 2: I never have.
Speaker 1: I can care less because the reality is somebody has
Speaker 1: to and there's people out there they say stuff about
Speaker 1: me too, like who cares? You know, at some point
Speaker 1: you've got to be able to stand for truth if
Speaker 1: you can, or the truth we know anyway, because again,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like like I said, everything that we
Speaker 1: know in our assessments, in our opinions are only as
Speaker 1: good as the information we get period. You know, And
Speaker 1: I've always said, we're you know, right today, wrong tomorrow
Speaker 1: always happens.
Speaker 2: You're never going to be in Yeah, you're never going
Speaker 2: to be information. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So but when I when I when I see what
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, the Grift for example, when I see
Speaker 1: someone like and I'll just keep drumming it because I
Speaker 1: can care less about what this guy thinks. But let's
Speaker 1: say like a Dave Smith. And it's not because I
Speaker 1: hate him, I don't. I actually I respected his intelligence.
Speaker 1: I thought he was great when he first came out,
Speaker 1: But now you can clearly see it's like he's just
Speaker 1: kind of just going with what works.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's always the same argument, the same thing. We
Speaker 1: don't have to stay on him. I just use him
Speaker 1: as an example. No, but but and I don't really
Speaker 1: know much about him.
Speaker 2: I know the name. But let me ask you this. No,
Speaker 2: I'm just using him as an example. Yeah, but let
Speaker 2: me ask you from the from the perspective of grifting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: isn't it really all about perceived value? And I can
Speaker 2: argue both sides of this, But isn't it really about
Speaker 2: like how how many people pay for Netflix and do
Speaker 2: nothing but scroll the menu and never why you look
Speaker 2: at forty things like I think I'll watch nothing, I'll
Speaker 2: just go to bed. So is that a grift? I mean,
Speaker 2: if you pay it and never use it, is it
Speaker 2: a grift? So I think that if people are grabbing
Speaker 2: their information from a Joe Walsh okay, and he's becoming
Speaker 2: their news source, then is it so wrong that they
Speaker 2: choose to subscribe to him and help bankroll him. I
Speaker 2: think the problem I have is that there's such an
Speaker 2: oversaturation of this stuff that people just get further siloed. Well, So.
Speaker 1: I say, what a grift is my opinion and the
Speaker 1: way I see it and understand it is when someone
Speaker 1: is literally disingenuous. Okay, there's someone who doesn't necessarily believe
Speaker 1: in all the bullshit that they're spewing, but they said something,
Speaker 1: they presented something that got them the attention. Now they
Speaker 1: know what works, and now they just keep spitting out
Speaker 1: and spewing the same old crap over and over because
Speaker 1: they know that that formula is going to get them
Speaker 1: the eyeballs. Those are grifters in the in the most
Speaker 1: literal sense. Yes, so that that's my take on it.
Speaker 2: I don't care that someone iurological guy. I mean the
Speaker 2: Internet trolls, they consider what we're doing right now grift.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, I understand,
Speaker 2: but I don't. I don't have I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't care that someone makes money. I mean, why
Speaker 1: should you not be able to earn a living doing
Speaker 1: what you like. I'm not against that whatsoever. I was
Speaker 1: what I meant by a grift is exactly what I said,
Speaker 1: or just just now in how I defined it is.
Speaker 1: It's like, look, dude, you know you don't really believe
Speaker 1: in what you're saying because just three years ago, just
Speaker 1: three years ago, and I don't even say names were
Speaker 1: just hypothetically you said Trump was was an asshole. Now
Speaker 1: you're licking his boots. That's a grifter, because now licking
Speaker 1: Trump's boots is what gets him paid. Okay, I get
Speaker 1: you gotta pay bills, but the reasons you're doing it,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You are being disingenuous. You are grifting, and
Speaker 1: that's what a grifter is, and so that's what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking you consider JD. Vance a grifter? You
Speaker 2: know what. I think he is. Definitely.
Speaker 1: I definitely think he's biden his time. I think he
Speaker 1: is probably to be honest, if I had to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he is kind of a grifter. He is
Speaker 1: someone who jumped on the ticket. I think he's using
Speaker 1: Trump to get where he needs to go. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if he believes in everything that Trump does whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I really don't think I think Vance is the cleanup guy.
Speaker 2: Because you were like describing all that, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you are painting the picture of JD. Vance. That's that's
Speaker 2: what That's what I see. That's just what I see.
Speaker 2: I I agree with you. He's intelligent. He is. He is,
Speaker 2: He's very intelligent. But I don't believe he's bought in.
Speaker 2: I just don't. I I think that it's the same
Speaker 2: thing with Marco Rubio. You know, I can see that definitely,
Speaker 2: these guys are in it for their career advancement. Unlike
Speaker 2: a guy like Pete Hegseth, who is in it? Because
Speaker 2: how do I turn down this opportunity? Of course I'm
Speaker 2: gonna take it. And then he gets it, he goes,
Speaker 2: this is a lot of work. I think I'll have
Speaker 2: a drink, right, you know, did you see the video
Speaker 2: of him with the drone delivering up the document? Like
Speaker 2: what are we doing? It's fun even your videos, like
Speaker 2: you said, you have to laugh, yeah, but like it what?
Speaker 2: First of all, there's nothing impressive about a drone carrying
Speaker 2: a payload of one sheet of paper. No, like like
Speaker 2: what it should have been is a document like like
Speaker 2: like like gorilla taped to a concrete block. Okay, and
Speaker 2: the drone flies in a concrete block and he takes
Speaker 2: the paper off the block. But there's nothing impressive about
Speaker 2: a drone flying in a piece of paper. That doesn't
Speaker 2: say masculinity. That's his small penis. That's like that makes
Speaker 2: me think of Andrew Tait. When I think of small penis,
Speaker 2: I think of Andrew Tate. Get me started on that guy.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to because you can't stand him. Listen. I
Speaker 2: wish you remember pay per view in the nineties. I
Speaker 2: would love to get in the ring with that guy.
Speaker 2: I don't care if I lose. I just want to
Speaker 2: punch him in the.
Speaker 1: Face, right, you know he brought him up. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about Tate like. I'm gonna let you start it because
Speaker 1: you obviously have a lot to say.
Speaker 2: I just think he's got a small penis and I look,
Speaker 2: the only reason I can say this is because he's
Speaker 2: he's jumping around in that little bikini all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm not asking to see these photos, he's putting them
Speaker 2: out there. I'm like you, there's nothing about you that
Speaker 2: says man. You are like an AI generated version of masculinity.
Speaker 2: I can agree with that.
Speaker 1: I think I think the guy is just a h
Speaker 1: He's just a scammer. Literally, well, he's a grifter. I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, is his his online university?
Speaker 2: Have you ever looked at that crap? Only to the
Speaker 2: extent that I know would exists? But no, I haven't
Speaker 2: like signed up if that's what you're asking. Oh no, no,
Speaker 2: I wasn't asking. I'm not sure where you go. No,
Speaker 2: but look, have these stupid courses on how you can
Speaker 2: make money? I got a webcam, girls and all that shit.
Speaker 2: The paper route you're doing it wrong, you know, shit
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: I know I'm being facetious, but just saying it's like,
Speaker 1: it's that bad and people buy into this crap and
Speaker 1: they said, I.
Speaker 2: Would have you wouldn't do the web girl the webcam business.
Speaker 2: You got like eight girls to do webcams, and you
Speaker 2: sit around and driving a nice car and sitting in
Speaker 2: a bikini drinking whatever he's drinking. I got life.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's imagine being then insecure that that's what
Speaker 1: you have to do. It's it's the problem is that
Speaker 1: he is presenting that as the life that a man
Speaker 1: should have. I mean, that's your thing, great, that's you whatever.
Speaker 2: No, I know you were, but I know there's always
Speaker 2: that one out there who's like, oh wow, he's really
Speaker 2: into me.
Speaker 1: I think it's just so ridiculous that that these young,
Speaker 1: younger men are buying into this, Like if he is
Speaker 1: the beacon of manhood, we're in trouble. I'm sorry. There's
Speaker 1: nothing masculine as you said about him. He is absolutely drifting.
Speaker 1: He's he's just really manipulating and molding young people's minds
Speaker 1: to believe that if you act like me, you treat
Speaker 1: women badly and you make bad investments that you're you're
Speaker 1: gonna be a great person, You're gonna be successful individual.
Speaker 1: Everything he's doing is just look, it's a house of cards.
Speaker 2: Man. He know it's weak. He's a weak person. He
Speaker 2: is weak, you know.
Speaker 1: And and and sure, when he gets mad enough, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, oh, you know, let's get
Speaker 1: in the ring. Like, bro, listen, that ship sailed. Sure,
Speaker 1: that's that's when his lisp starts flying.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I can only make fun of that
Speaker 2: because I had a lisp as a kid. So don't
Speaker 2: come for me because I overcame it. He didn't. And
Speaker 2: then he gets really upset and he's like, dolls'll get
Speaker 2: in the bring, would you okay, I'll beat you up.
Speaker 2: British comes out. Yeah, like you know what he looks like.
Speaker 2: He looks like like if Bam Bam from the Flintstone
Speaker 2: grew up, but like never saw a therapist, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Because he's like he's like bam bam
Speaker 2: like and I can't get that out of my head. Yeah,
Speaker 2: give him, give him like a giant drum stickers to
Speaker 2: the chicken wing and uh and put them in one
Speaker 2: of those Cocta things and it looks chromagnom so so
Speaker 2: we were Box Adventure from Turbographics. Remember Box Adventures? Yes,
Speaker 2: I remember that ship. You're going back? Hey? What what?
Speaker 2: What is?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts that I have thoughts? We probably
Speaker 1: were very much on the same page with this guy. Uh,
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts about these podcasts, these conservative podcasts
Speaker 1: that got behind this guy and platform him and gave
Speaker 1: him the ability to do this podcast too? Like why
Speaker 1: why is Patrick pick David having someone like him? You
Speaker 1: know that that made no sense to me? Like there
Speaker 1: there were there were, there was everybody. Yeah, Cannas owns
Speaker 1: behind him, like she's gone off the deband anyway. But
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that what what what was behind that
Speaker 1: in your mind?
Speaker 2: Like why? I mean, did they need the money that bad?
Speaker 1: They need the eyeballs that bad that they would lower
Speaker 1: their standards enough to platform this guy.
Speaker 2: It's all self interested again. And Cannas Owen's husband is
Speaker 2: like best friends with Andrew Tape, so so there's there's
Speaker 2: real connections there, and I think sometimes you just do
Speaker 2: it to save phase, you know, And it's all about clout, right,
Speaker 2: It's all about clout, which is why people play the circles.
Speaker 2: You know, you're talking a lot about folks on the
Speaker 2: the conservative leaning side, and I can think of a
Speaker 2: lot of people on the left leaning side of things
Speaker 2: that do the same things. I mean, like Lev Parness
Speaker 2: and Michael Cohen, Like how many times do these guys
Speaker 2: need to go live on a podcast and talk to
Speaker 2: the same twelve people? Like how much more does Michael
Speaker 2: Cohen have to offer this world? Or is he just
Speaker 2: there to get his five bucks a month. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, a great point, it really is.
Speaker 1: It seems like the ability for since we're talking about
Speaker 1: podcasting now, the ability for anybody who has the hope
Speaker 1: in the dream to build.
Speaker 2: Something as.
Speaker 1: An independent podcaster. It seems like the window of opportunity
Speaker 1: of the doors just being close to you. Because in
Speaker 1: the beginning was the wild West, like anybody could just
Speaker 1: get in there. Anybody can get in there and become,
Speaker 1: you know, some a bit of a success in terms
Speaker 1: of a following right right in the beginning, there wasn't
Speaker 1: as many options. But now we're looking at what was
Speaker 1: it they said last report, over five million podcasts out there.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean all of them are active, but Still
Speaker 1: you got a huge saturation of choices, and who's going
Speaker 1: to be presented to you when you open your app?
Speaker 1: You know they and these apps are like okay, like Apple, Spotify. Look,
Speaker 1: I've done enough in business to understand how it works.
Speaker 1: I've been in sales. I understand how this works.
Speaker 2: They deny that.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, we don't take money. There's no such thing.
Speaker 1: These people all play the game bullshit. You guys are
Speaker 1: all lying. They all got big pockets behind them. The
Speaker 1: only reason that every time you open Apple, for example,
Speaker 1: and you see let's say, hot Save America is because
Speaker 1: there's enough money to keep them on the front page,
Speaker 1: just not because of their damn downloads.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Look, there was a time I was in the top
Speaker 1: one hundred in politics on Apple and most people probably
Speaker 1: even know who I am. You didn't see me on
Speaker 1: every Apple splash page right when you open it.
Speaker 2: No you didn't.
Speaker 1: So it's a bunch of lies and manipulation and bullshit.
Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate that you have voices out there like
Speaker 1: I personally, Royce, I don't know what you do, but
Speaker 1: I don't even listen to a lot of big guys anymore.
Speaker 1: Unless there's like a certain interview I want to hear.
Speaker 1: I support a lot of independence. I really do, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of good quality independent podcasters out there
Speaker 1: who are going to do the work. They're going to
Speaker 1: do the deep dive. They have other jobs and in
Speaker 1: their spare time, they are really putting their all into this,
Speaker 1: and I respect those people.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm one of those people period, You know, I am.
Speaker 1: This isn't This isn't where I make my money. You know,
Speaker 1: I make my money elsewhere. But I love doing this
Speaker 1: and I felt that I had a voice, so I said, hey,
Speaker 1: let me go ahead and do what I can. And
Speaker 1: on some episodes, man, I sound like an encyclopedia because
Speaker 1: I will dig that deep.
Speaker 2: I get highper focused.
Speaker 1: So I think that, you know, the window of opportunity, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: is getting narrower, and it's very sad to see that
Speaker 1: this has become an industry. I have a person I
Speaker 1: know that has been podcasting for a very long time,
Speaker 1: and you knows some people that are in the industry
Speaker 1: that are pretty well known people, and he still wants
Speaker 1: to hold on to the fact. He looks at it
Speaker 1: as you know, it's just like bands, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just like being in a band and all of this.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not an industry. It's punk rock.
Speaker 2: Now. I'm sorry, it's not anymore. And that's unfortunately. I
Speaker 2: wish it wasn't. That was not the truth, but it is.
Speaker 2: It really is.
Speaker 1: So how does because you've been doing this for a
Speaker 1: long time, how does someone become successful? And that could
Speaker 1: be many things. It doesn't necessarily mean rich, But how
Speaker 1: would you be able to be able to get your
Speaker 1: voice heard and also be able to do this for
Speaker 1: a living to where you know, maybe you make enough
Speaker 1: to keep it going?
Speaker 2: For example, how to set that I could tell I
Speaker 2: mean I had for the post pandemic, I made a
Speaker 2: living live streaming on TikTok, and you could look at
Speaker 2: the metrics on TikTok and my success on TikTok and
Speaker 2: think that it was really, really imporant pgressive. But as
Speaker 2: soon as you took it out of that ecosystem, it
Speaker 2: didn't scale, it didn't carry over into other platforms. I
Speaker 2: have decided to break it in pursuit of growing further,
Speaker 2: much along the same thought process of what you're asking,
Speaker 2: because it comes down to if you're really gonna do this,
Speaker 2: and if you've done it long enough that you're now
Speaker 2: in it, And I'm like, oh, okay, well I didn't
Speaker 2: expect to still be here and now I'm here, So
Speaker 2: now what's next. I can't do this forever. So that's
Speaker 2: the evolution, right, And if you're going to stick with
Speaker 2: it the most. Look, I've gotten to the point where
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just you're gonna get all of me. Okay,
Speaker 2: there was a time when you wouldn't. You're gonna get
Speaker 2: all of me. And if I lose followers, so be it.
Speaker 2: But I'm hoping that I have five hundred really really
Speaker 2: passionate people that are interested about anything that I have
Speaker 2: going on, that they can help lift up anything that
Speaker 2: I have going on. And I think that that's the
Speaker 2: long term proposition. You know, I have six hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand followers on TikTok, but if I go live,
Speaker 2: there might only be two hundred people watching any given home.
Speaker 2: It's all bullshit, right. So then I go over to
Speaker 2: my sub stack and my core people are there, and
Speaker 2: those are the people that are on my Twitch and
Speaker 2: my youth They're everywhere. So I think that part of
Speaker 2: it has to be as weird as this sounds. It
Speaker 2: has to be not focusing on the money that's short term.
Speaker 2: You have to go long term and build something that
Speaker 2: provides value for people. When I'm not live, people want
Speaker 2: me to go live. I mean, I used to provide
Speaker 2: a very specific type of stream. But now the people
Speaker 2: that I have gotten rid of and the people that
Speaker 2: I have kind of whittled it down to, don't just
Speaker 2: watch me sit here and do like what I'll call
Speaker 2: office hours where I'm like, guys, I just got to
Speaker 2: go through notes and clean off my desk, but I
Speaker 2: haven't been live today. And and if I went to
Speaker 2: the parks where I used to stream, and I pay
Speaker 2: and I played the game, I can make hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 2: But I got to work the leaderboards and work the
Speaker 2: gifting and do the whole thing. So that's short term money,
Speaker 2: which is nice, yes, But I'm now, folks correct, So
Speaker 2: now it's more valuable to be like, guys, I didn't
Speaker 2: make it to the park today, but let me show
Speaker 2: you what I've been working on, you know, So now
Speaker 2: they're on the ride with you, and it's it's it's
Speaker 2: it's a lot more work to do it that way,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people said, just stick to doing
Speaker 2: the dumb ship. Just stick to do and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to spend the rest of my life
Speaker 2: doing that. So to answer your question is how do
Speaker 2: you how do you make a day like you? It's
Speaker 2: not about getting tons of you right, It's about speaking
Speaker 2: to the people that are listening. It's not it's it's
Speaker 2: it's having it. Not speaking down to them, it's speaking
Speaker 2: to them, speaking with them. So I think I think
Speaker 2: that if you can find a way to sustain that,
Speaker 2: then maybe you break through. I got to tell you
Speaker 2: sometimes when you were describing this at the top of
Speaker 2: the show about like you know, hitting that benchmark and
Speaker 2: then having all that, and I'm like, it doesn't even
Speaker 2: sound appealing at this age, like I've had I've had
Speaker 2: a slice of it on TikTok, Like it's not appealing,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not doing what I'm doing these
Speaker 2: days reviews. I'm doing it to keep that core audience
Speaker 2: going on these new endeavors. I could give a ship.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get if somebody comes in a gains
Speaker 2: me hard, I'm like, just don't don't fucking watch me,
Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't care. But but but you know,
Speaker 2: like when, why weren't you in the park the other day?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I was, Oh I missed it? Well, who why the
Speaker 2: fuck are you asking me? Right? Like, like if you
Speaker 2: come into my life, I go, where were you? I
Speaker 2: was working? Why the fuck were you working? Why weren't
Speaker 2: you watching my live? Asshole? Like it's it sounds pretty
Speaker 2: ridiculous when you flip the scrap. I hope I answered
Speaker 2: your question. I know it just ranted a lot.
Speaker 1: Well no, no, no, no, no, that's all. It's all
Speaker 1: valid information. I mean, is your experiences right.
Speaker 2: I I want to make it clear, like I believe
Speaker 2: anybody in.
Speaker 1: This space, for example, to me, be who you are.
Speaker 1: Don't put on a front nothing. I hate nothing more
Speaker 1: than watching somebody who's a character. Okay, now, unless you're
Speaker 1: specifically putting it out there that it's entertainment, fair enough,
Speaker 1: I know what I'm getting into. But you know, if
Speaker 1: you're in the news, commentary, space, politics, anything like that,
Speaker 1: which is really hot right now, don't don't don't be
Speaker 1: something you're not. Just don't be something you're not. I
Speaker 1: can't stand fake. That's that's what that's how you're.
Speaker 2: Going to break through. But you still need to play into. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: you still have to play into the clickbait world if
Speaker 2: you really want to. I understand I don't like doing it,
Speaker 2: and I'm on your side. I agree with you. I'm
Speaker 2: I'm against it as well.
Speaker 1: But you know, everything I was saying earlier really had
Speaker 1: to do with you know, I I see people get
Speaker 1: so bent out of shape in his heart and when
Speaker 1: they're like they're inspired and they're like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do this too, and then they get into it and
Speaker 1: they feel, like you said, they've got to reach a
Speaker 1: certain threshold.
Speaker 2: I need ten thousand downloads, I need twenty thousand. I
Speaker 2: need one hundred thousand, and it's like, give a shit.
Speaker 2: You know, I like doing this more than I like
Speaker 2: doing my own podcast. Yeah, you want to know why,
Speaker 2: because when this is over, I'm gonna go smoke a
Speaker 2: bowl and not have to edit shit. I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: have to edit shit, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And I can curse over here. I don't have to
Speaker 2: care about here losing a follower. This is your fucking problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, everybody, Look, everybody, this is the my damn
Speaker 1: show there. You know, I got a filthy mouth, so
Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2: But my audios will hear this and be like, oh man,
Speaker 2: why does he act this way on his podcast?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've got to listen more. I like I
Speaker 1: like having the conversations though words. I like having the
Speaker 1: opportunity to have someone open up and just let go.
Speaker 2: I really do. I think there's more value in that.
Speaker 1: I think you learn from somebody a lot more instead
Speaker 1: of trying to play the persona and try to stay
Speaker 1: within the guardbe. I mean, if you can't speak your mind,
Speaker 1: then we're not having real conversation. We're just not You
Speaker 1: should be able to express yourself.
Speaker 2: But then it does to means you're doing it for
Speaker 2: the wrong reasons, and that goes back to the whole
Speaker 2: grifter thing, because you're if you're there. So when I started,
Speaker 2: not to bring it back to what I was doing
Speaker 2: on TikTok, but when I started doing what I was doing,
Speaker 2: I was front of trend. A lot of people started
Speaker 2: doing it because they saw what I was doing and
Speaker 2: I was doing it with success. I originally started doing
Speaker 2: it for my own mental health escape, and I think
Speaker 2: because I was just having fun and being me that
Speaker 2: people latched onto it. But I maintained an air of professionalism.
Speaker 2: What has happened over the years is there's nothing left
Speaker 2: to do. So now I just satirize it and let
Speaker 2: it rip all day and just look for the punchline,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Because it's an oversaturated market,
Speaker 2: so there's nothing left because now everybody's doing it for
Speaker 2: the clout, and and I'm like, man, I've been doing
Speaker 2: this so damn long. I've seen it all, I've done
Speaker 2: it all. There's nothing left to do but to completely flip.
Speaker 2: So with that being said, where where is the grift?
Speaker 1: As you said, like, where where would it be that
Speaker 1: you would be grifting?
Speaker 2: How am I a grifter? No? You're saying, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's the question. That's I don't care. Okay, I listen.
Speaker 2: Reddit would tell you I'm a grifter because of the
Speaker 2: gifting on TikTok. But I would tell you a lot
Speaker 2: of those people on Reddit are just jealous that I
Speaker 2: get to make money going with Disney World. Oh I
Speaker 2: thought I thought you were.
Speaker 1: You're alluding to maybe because for example, you can act
Speaker 1: one way on a show like mine, but then on yours,
Speaker 1: you you have to be a different person.
Speaker 2: No, if people don't understand persona that's them. Gotcha? What what?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What I used to do in the early days about
Speaker 2: being professional was I didn't express my opinions as much
Speaker 2: as you know I didn't. I didn't I didn't say
Speaker 2: what I was thinking. Now I say whatever I want.
Speaker 2: I choose my words carefully right, so that if people
Speaker 2: are only half listening, they're not going to know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. But to those that have, you know, anything
Speaker 2: above an eighth grade reading level, I can get was
Speaker 2: saying things in a family friendly manner and rip somebody
Speaker 2: to shit, right. So so, but it was a natural
Speaker 2: evolution of like showing all of myself. It's not that
Speaker 2: I wasn't being authentic in the beginning. I was still
Speaker 2: being me, but I I took the gloves off because
Speaker 2: there was nothing left to do and it became an
Speaker 2: oversaturated market. So again, how do you differentiate yourself? How
Speaker 2: do you you know it goes back to the idea
Speaker 2: of the purple elephant, if you're familiar with that marketing term.
Speaker 2: So how do you differentiate yourself in a world of
Speaker 2: podcasting now? When everything on YouTube is a face like this,
Speaker 2: like yours, right, I'm I call to me. You know
Speaker 2: what this is like you're an audio guy. This is
Speaker 2: like phase two of podcasting, because podcasting had a boom.
Speaker 2: This is the phase two boom of podcasting. This is
Speaker 2: like when mini disc came back the second time. So
Speaker 2: that's what this is, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well I I understand what you're getting at.
Speaker 1: In my perspective, I'm I am what you see man,
Speaker 1: You know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't believe in being that different person.
Speaker 1: The only thing this does for me when I get
Speaker 1: on the mic and I got the earbuds or whatever
Speaker 1: the hell it is, I get focused.
Speaker 2: That's all it is.
Speaker 1: It's just like me having a drink right loosens me
Speaker 1: up a bit, and now I can have a conversation
Speaker 1: without inhibition because now I'm just focusing on you. I
Speaker 1: know that I hit the record button and I got
Speaker 1: to get here to this space where I can listen
Speaker 1: hopefully say something that has any value.
Speaker 2: But and sometimes I'm playing mental.
Speaker 1: Judo with people, you know, But I am who I am,
Speaker 1: you know, And you're right, there's a lot of guys
Speaker 1: that may look like me, but really, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: like I'm a working person, you know, I work with
Speaker 1: my hands. I work in the trades. I do a
Speaker 1: vent production.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm in it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I get here and this is what I look
Speaker 1: like because I ain't got time to polish up and
Speaker 1: put a suit.
Speaker 2: Can I wear one? Absolutely? I love it?
Speaker 1: But right now, hey, I'm more concerned about having a
Speaker 1: good conversation and making sure that people can hear what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. So will will this change someday?
Speaker 2: Possibly? Who knows? But for the amendment, I just I
Speaker 2: didn't take it. But I'm just talking about But I'm
Speaker 2: saying the world we're living in, it's microphone phase chair square. Well, No,
Speaker 2: there's guys like this, this is come on.
Speaker 1: There's there's the ex military guy with the hat and
Speaker 1: the tight shirt, and you know that there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that going around right now. And they think it's
Speaker 1: because it's cool and it's this whole manisphere thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just a stick.
Speaker 2: It really is. It's all it is. But when you're
Speaker 2: what we're doing right here, and I will tell you
Speaker 2: because when I'm listening to you and then when I'm
Speaker 2: responding to you, I'm in the zone right now, like
Speaker 2: I'm in a I'm gonna. I'm in a a dialed
Speaker 2: in thing right now where I am. I am focused
Speaker 2: on listening to what you're saying. I'm trying to build
Speaker 2: my thoughts and to the to the point that I
Speaker 2: start going like from my heart, and when I'm done,
Speaker 2: I'm like, Man, I hope that made sense because that
Speaker 2: really just came from the soul, you know, because I'm
Speaker 2: in the zone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you got you got to put it out there, man,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the whole that's the beauty of these
Speaker 1: type of conversations. You have to let it go and
Speaker 1: you have to get it out there.
Speaker 2: But you can't do that if you're trying to hold
Speaker 2: up a fake front. It's impossible, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the issue that I'm having right now
Speaker 1: with the podcasting world, and it's become such a big
Speaker 1: thing and it's so influential that it's leading people in
Speaker 1: the wrong direction. I believe there's a lot of intentional
Speaker 1: misinformation or you know, like you said earlier, there's like
Speaker 1: a handful of companies or whatever that control most of
Speaker 1: the narrative because of the money behind it, and that
Speaker 1: individual when they started may not have wanted to be
Speaker 1: that person, but now they're too deep. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: going back to what we're talking about earlier, do you
Speaker 1: want to get rid of the money or the power?
Speaker 1: You're kind of stuck in this situation. It's like, well
Speaker 1: what do I do to I go back to poverty,
Speaker 1: go back to you know, washing dish?
Speaker 2: Like how do I have my cake and eat it too?
Speaker 2: Is that possible? Not to bring it back to Bongino,
Speaker 2: But I mean, he really is the perfect example. I
Speaker 2: mean I almost empathize with the guy, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, in a weird way. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 2: was he was secret service for Obama? Yes? Okay, so
Speaker 2: like let's not even politicize the man for a half
Speaker 2: a second. Let's just talk about him as a podcaster, right,
Speaker 2: Like you you had a really good thing going, why
Speaker 2: would you leave it? Because you would be a fool
Speaker 2: to not take that opportunity, Like if you and I
Speaker 2: were given that opportunity, you'd be a fool not to
Speaker 2: take it because it's once in a lifetime. But then
Speaker 2: you get there and you find out the grass isn't
Speaker 2: always green, and that's truth.
Speaker 1: There's there's nothing much truth in what you said because
Speaker 1: you only have one life, and how many opportunities do
Speaker 1: you ever really get?
Speaker 2: You know, would you rather live with the doubt? Would
Speaker 2: you rather live with the doubt or did you really
Speaker 2: regret it? Though I will yes, you would.
Speaker 1: Everybody regrets the decision to not pursue, and many of
Speaker 1: us may not even pursue something because of the fear.
Speaker 1: And there's also the imposter syndrome. Maybe we don't believe
Speaker 1: like we belong in that position, or or that we
Speaker 1: need we should be the person in that in that
Speaker 1: position taking advantage of the opportunity. So a lot, a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of what holds people back. I believe it's
Speaker 1: both fear and imposter syndrome. If it's not fear, it's
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. There's very few people that can be confident
Speaker 1: enough to walk out there into any situation and go,
Speaker 1: you know what, no matter what, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: me and I'm taking this.
Speaker 2: I'm taking this. Not many people do.
Speaker 1: And it's it's and it's not it's not to put
Speaker 1: anybody down who feels the way that I just describe,
Speaker 1: because there's times we all feel that way. There's times
Speaker 1: we all feel that way. I've had job offers where
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, the money's good, but this
Speaker 1: isn't me. The sain't my wheelhouse, you know, just like
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be that guy.
Speaker 2: I just knew it right, you know.
Speaker 1: So again it wasn't I wasn't trying to talk down
Speaker 1: to anybody who may feel like, oh I don't ever
Speaker 1: fit in. I'm not going to take that step. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of fear. I've always had the entrepreneurial spirit.
Speaker 1: I've never been afraid to take a chance. I've risked money,
Speaker 1: I've risked all that you have to and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not some multi millionaire by the way, but I think
Speaker 1: I did pretty well for myself considering. And the reality is,
Speaker 1: you're gonna hear a hundred no's. You only need one
Speaker 1: yes man, you really do the basic principles of sales.
Speaker 1: I've always I've always taken personally, like even with my
Speaker 1: sales teams when I used to have the company, is like,
Speaker 1: I don't care, you're gonna hear on a hundred knows.
Speaker 1: You've got to keep knocking those doors you've got. If
Speaker 1: you're not trying, you're not progressing. And if you're always doubting,
Speaker 1: You're not even gonna try. You're gonna live until you've
Speaker 1: cold called. I mean until you have cold called in life. Then,
Speaker 1: because once you've gotten through the rejection of a cold
Speaker 1: call and then also had the success of a cold call,
Speaker 1: that you could take nose all day long.
Speaker 2: Sure, Kirby vacuums cut co all that. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: just like it's it's you know, look so and again
Speaker 2: I don't want to harp on the Bongino thing, but
Speaker 2: my last point to that is that the fear, the
Speaker 2: fear of of regret by not taking that job. Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't think now if I was in that position
Speaker 2: and decided to leave, that I would regret taking the job.
Speaker 2: I may go, oh, I'm leaving now, this isn't what
Speaker 2: I thought. But I think the deeper regret is not knowing.
Speaker 2: So you take that leap and you take that opportunity.
Speaker 2: But to bring it back to the point of failure
Speaker 2: is most people they shut down after a failure and
Speaker 2: they don't realize that that failure is necessary. So then
Speaker 2: the failure becomes the thing that is the roadblock. When
Speaker 2: failure is actually a necessity. Failures is a litmus test
Speaker 2: for success.
Speaker 1: Well, they don't ever want to feel that embarrassment again,
Speaker 1: so they avoid conflict, they avoid struggle.
Speaker 2: But failure is not doing it, not failing at trying.
Speaker 2: Failing at not trying is success in its own even
Speaker 2: if it look most businesses, as you well know, were
Speaker 2: berthed out of a completely different thing. Before Lego was Lego,
Speaker 2: they were making wooden toys. Nintendo was a card company.
Speaker 2: So you know, you you you fail at one thing,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's the it's the not doing that is
Speaker 2: the failure. Yeah, And I hope people listening hear that.
Speaker 1: I completely agree, And that's that's what I was getting at.
Speaker 1: That just probably didn't communicate it, No.
Speaker 2: You did, you did. I just I love harping on
Speaker 2: that because I think that we live in a fear
Speaker 2: based culture, whether it's executive level decision making or or
Speaker 2: whether it's just even the fear of of offending. Like
Speaker 2: you're not going to say anything in this conversation to
Speaker 2: offend me, right, you know what I mean? And I'm
Speaker 2: get I'm reading from you that it's probably the same
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: I'm good man, you know, I just look, I just
Speaker 1: had I don't know if you heard of him, Derek Gilliard.
Speaker 1: He served under the first Trump administration. He was part
Speaker 1: of HHS twenty five years and he wrote this book.
Speaker 2: I think it was uh.
Speaker 1: I just had him yesterday too, longest four years of
Speaker 1: his life, as he calls it, his perspective of working
Speaker 1: in the Trumpet administration as a black man. And we
Speaker 1: had this long conversation and we we broke through barriers.
Speaker 1: We talked about race, we talked about racial stereotypes. He
Speaker 1: asked me straight up, he is a white guy. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you why there's so many white people that
Speaker 1: shoot up schools and whatnot. And I'm like, happy to
Speaker 1: happy to address that.
Speaker 2: You know, you can't. You can't be afraid to have
Speaker 2: those discussions. You really can't.
Speaker 1: I have a file on that one, right, But you
Speaker 1: can't be afraid to have these discussions. You know, if
Speaker 1: you're afraid of being offended, you're not going to progress
Speaker 1: and learn.
Speaker 2: You're just not. I think it's boring to have a
Speaker 2: conversation where all we're doing is agreeing. Why do I
Speaker 2: want to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I've had many many conversations where I
Speaker 1: don't agree with everything everyone says. But at least you know,
Speaker 1: if you're intelligent enough of a person, I should walk
Speaker 1: away understanding your perspective. And I should walk away with
Speaker 1: an understanding that I know why you think the way
Speaker 1: you It doesn't mean you're stupid. I just understand why
Speaker 1: you think the way you do. I can now say, okay,
Speaker 1: the way you lived, what you went through, Now I
Speaker 1: get it.
Speaker 2: I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand it before, and that's that's important to me.
Speaker 2: It really is. And I like learning.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I enjoy about having
Speaker 1: this conversations Royce, is I always walk away learning something.
Speaker 1: I'm always hungry for knowledge. I'm always diving deep and
Speaker 1: going down these rabbit holes. But I like coming away
Speaker 1: from conversations where I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, damn, I didn't look at it that way.
Speaker 1: Or you might tell me something like you know earlier,
Speaker 1: when you were just talking about the lady that ran
Speaker 1: that discord, Now I now I got to go look
Speaker 1: at who.
Speaker 2: This person was, like things like that. But I do
Speaker 2: like learning.
Speaker 1: I like coming away with knowing that this conversation was
Speaker 1: worth it because there was value in it, because we
Speaker 1: both walked away with some insight that we didn't have before,
Speaker 1: and that's what I like about this. And so even
Speaker 1: on on what I do Royce like, I listened to
Speaker 1: quite a bit of your podcast recently, knowing that you
Speaker 1: were going to be coming on, so I wanted to
Speaker 1: hear more where you're coming from. But even with me,
Speaker 1: a lot of when I first started, a lot of
Speaker 1: people had this thing where it's like, oh, he's the
Speaker 1: Maga guy, He's the Trump Trumpster guy. And my guests
Speaker 1: were never really like the conservative trumpters guys. I've had
Speaker 1: most people that were on the liberal or democratic side.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I just talked to a psychologists who was a hardcore liberal.
Speaker 1: He wanted to start a fight with me verbally in
Speaker 1: a nice way. I didn't let it get that way,
Speaker 1: and then we both ended up coming to understand that
Speaker 1: we agree on more than we disagree. Because when you
Speaker 1: take politics out of it and you just talk about
Speaker 1: things that human beings need to deal with, you find
Speaker 1: out that, damn, we're all pretty freaking similar.
Speaker 2: We really are. Well, most people want the same things right.
Speaker 2: They want mentally, they want to be viable, financially viable,
Speaker 2: they want health, they want to leave this place in
Speaker 2: a better condition. For their children and their children's children.
Speaker 2: It's just how they choose to get there. Yeah, voices made, Yeah,
Speaker 2: who but who I mean, show me somebody who doesn't
Speaker 2: want those things. Everybody generally has the same desires. It's
Speaker 2: how you get there. I have to tell you this
Speaker 2: really quick because you're talking about all these all these
Speaker 2: different folks and I so I'm doing the substack thing now,
Speaker 2: you know. Like I said, I broke TikTok and I'm
Speaker 2: building up substack and we've hit the Substack leaderboard thirty
Speaker 2: five and Rising News whatever eighty three. Cool. It's not
Speaker 2: based off of gifting and money. It's based off of
Speaker 2: engagement and followers and all that. So it's nice. It's
Speaker 2: a different proposition and I like it, and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get people on, but I don't want the same
Speaker 2: five names, some of whom we've mentioned. So I find
Speaker 2: this kid on the leaderboard okay, because I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the best place to go go with contemporaries.
Speaker 2: They'll see that you're up there doing your thing and
Speaker 2: young journalists. Okay, black kid. And I only say that
Speaker 2: because it's like, like, I couldn't be more of an
Speaker 2: ally buddy but okay, fine, so he's supposed to come
Speaker 2: on the podcast. I send him the link like an
Speaker 2: hour two hours before the show, and he goes, Royce,
Speaker 2: I can no longer do your show. The way you
Speaker 2: have characterized Trump's victories in your recent articles is absolutely abhorrent.
Speaker 2: And I am a journalist, but I am also a
Speaker 2: human being, and I wrote back, Trump's victories don't necessarily
Speaker 2: correlate to victories for all American people, and he blocked me,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, this is wild, Like this is a
Speaker 2: very true statement you made. Though it's true, it's true
Speaker 2: what I said or what he said, what you said.
Speaker 2: I just I'm like, dude, I'm trying to have a
Speaker 2: conversation with you. First of all, you're not a journalist.
Speaker 2: None of us are. Okay, even the people who call
Speaker 2: themselves a journalist on TV are not journalists. The commentators journalists,
Speaker 2: they're talking heads. Man, probably are so, but this kid's
Speaker 2: not a journalist. Number one and number two. Trump has
Speaker 2: had a string of victories politically speaking, how how are
Speaker 2: you if you can't admit that you could talk about
Speaker 2: the negative effects of these victories, but politically he's had victories. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you can't admit that you're not objective, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not necessarily saying you need to like
Speaker 1: this guy because of these victories. They may not be
Speaker 1: the victories you want, but he did have them. I
Speaker 1: wanted to hear what was of concern to this guy,
Speaker 1: and that made me. I'm like, you know what, this
Speaker 1: is the problem. You can't talk to and I'm an independent.
Speaker 1: You can't talk to anybody on the left. They don't
Speaker 1: it's their way or no way.
Speaker 2: I've been fortunate enough to have some though, and I
Speaker 2: don't I don't know what it is. I tend.
Speaker 1: I tend to like in this conversation, you know where
Speaker 1: we have a lot of back and forth, but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of times where I let them talk. I
Speaker 1: want them to reveal who they are so I can
Speaker 1: understan where they're coming from before I form an opinion,
Speaker 1: because you know, I could be very reaction, but it
Speaker 1: could just go down the wrong road. I might be
Speaker 1: creating a bad situation for me and my guests if
Speaker 1: I just if he says, you know, listen, he says,
Speaker 1: you know, fuck the Republicans this in this and you
Speaker 1: guys are war hawks whatever. I don't even care about that,
Speaker 1: but just saying then I could be re reactioning to like, hey,
Speaker 1: screw you this whatever that gets us nowhere. Let me
Speaker 1: let me let this person talk, let me let them
Speaker 1: get it out, because the more you talk, the more
Speaker 1: we're going to come to a place where we can
Speaker 1: actually start having the conversation. And then now we're going
Speaker 1: to find out that we both hate politics.
Speaker 2: You know, there's nothing you said in this conversation that
Speaker 2: I have disagreed with, And there's nothing you've said in
Speaker 2: this conversation that makes me think you're maga or conservative.
Speaker 1: Well that's the stereotype. But I'm just saying fair enough.
Speaker 1: I appreciate I try to stay centrist.
Speaker 2: I try to. There's times that I do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be honest, I do lean more right,
Speaker 1: But I don't think either side is one hundred percent right.
Speaker 1: They both have their problems. They're both fricking crazy. Let's
Speaker 1: just be honest. Man, You get into the extreme sides
Speaker 1: of both of them, is like, wow, where what world
Speaker 1: do you guys live in?
Speaker 2: Well that's the horseshoe.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, funny that was just brought up recently with
Speaker 1: someone else else talking about talking about.
Speaker 2: That so you know, I don't know where all this
Speaker 2: is going.
Speaker 1: I just know that what I see out there is
Speaker 1: is a lot of frustrated individuals, including myself, because we
Speaker 1: all want change, but it just doesn't seem that, you know,
Speaker 1: as you said, or in the deep state, they don't
Speaker 1: want to give up their position, they don't want to
Speaker 1: give up what they're doing, and we're just always going
Speaker 1: to be arguing over stuff out of our control. You know,
Speaker 1: there's people who get so obsessed about it that they
Speaker 1: get sick from it, just from the stress. You know,
Speaker 1: they can't even get through their day without going on
Speaker 1: X or you know, Blue Sky or whatever app they
Speaker 1: choose to be on and just spewing whatever opinion they have.
Speaker 1: And it's like, man, a perfect example of that for me.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not gonna name names, but where
Speaker 1: I live, and you know, I have frequently in the
Speaker 1: Bay Area many times, especially for business. I went to
Speaker 1: school out there in San Jose for some time. And
Speaker 1: the reality is it's a whole different world. It's a
Speaker 1: whole different world, and it got to the point where
Speaker 1: it's so far left that if you say anything that
Speaker 1: is outside of the group, think you're a Trumpster. It
Speaker 1: got so bad that one day a friend of mine
Speaker 1: saw me wearing a hat that just had an American
Speaker 1: flag and they called me trumpy. I'm like, what does
Speaker 1: the American flag have to do with Trump? It represents
Speaker 1: the United States of America, you know, the country in
Speaker 1: which you reside, the country on which you are a citizen,
Speaker 1: the country in which you are benefiting from its protections
Speaker 1: and a sovereignty. What does that have to do with Trump?
Speaker 1: And that's where we have gotten And that's what I'm
Speaker 1: concerned with, is that there's too many people living on
Speaker 1: the surface of the headline.
Speaker 2: They don't want to deeper.
Speaker 1: They just believe whatever it is that their favorite morning
Speaker 1: show is telling them and taking it for face value.
Speaker 1: And it never It really wasn't that bad before people
Speaker 1: were They used to think for themselves. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if they're just so busy that they don't want
Speaker 1: to take the time to do so anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that they're busy. I think that
Speaker 2: you know, there used to be a term second screen. Okay,
Speaker 2: I haven't heard it see second screen? So yeah, second
Speaker 2: screen was a term. You know, Oh, you're watching TV.
Speaker 2: Have your iPad out that's your second screen. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: got it? Okay, so second screen viewing and all this.
Speaker 2: We are long past second screen. People have the news
Speaker 2: on with music playing in the background, and they're scrolling
Speaker 2: Twitter on their iPhone. So I think a lot of
Speaker 2: it has to do with hyper consumption and the spread
Speaker 2: of information too fast. So when you take social media
Speaker 2: and you pair it with you know, a Steve Bannon
Speaker 2: strategy like flooding the zone with shit right, it makes
Speaker 2: it very very hard card to you know, the headline,
Speaker 2: to your point, always gets the most noise. It makes
Speaker 2: it very very hard to fact check anything because people
Speaker 2: are already onto the next headline, and the fact check
Speaker 2: never gets the level of engagement sure notice as the headline.
Speaker 2: So it's oversaturation, gotcha. I mean that's just my opinion,
Speaker 2: But I mean, you scroll, you scroll, you scroll, jump
Speaker 2: to the next I disagree with you, because that's a tactic.
Speaker 1: It's a real tactic that is used oversaturating. Look, how
Speaker 1: are you going to keep people in control?
Speaker 2: You overwhelm them. You overwhelm to the point.
Speaker 1: That they don't know how to make heads details what's
Speaker 1: going on. You keep them moving, you keep their attention
Speaker 1: moving you guide them just like a horse of blinders.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what they're doing. And it's the same thing
Speaker 2: in war.
Speaker 1: How do you your enemy, you know, through misinformation, disinformation
Speaker 1: and getting the people to believe the narrative so that
Speaker 1: they rise up and they oppose the ruling class. That's
Speaker 1: what we're seeing in America right now. And I don't
Speaker 1: know where it's gonna go. Look, I don't even want
Speaker 1: to say that I'm enjoying the ride, because sure, we
Speaker 1: get eyeballs from talking about this stuff, but I am
Speaker 1: more concerned with the the sentiment of how people feel
Speaker 1: in view things these days, and that it seems like
Speaker 1: we've we've just lost the ability to reason, that the
Speaker 1: ability to think logically has just I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: gone out the window.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately. Everything everything's emotional. I feel like America is just
Speaker 2: a big ball of zombies, you know, just fire. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you got the perfect background, I mean you really
Speaker 2: And I didn't say that because of that. It's just
Speaker 2: the way I have always felt. It's a dumpster fire,
Speaker 2: and you know it's not. And and party politics has
Speaker 2: just been turned into a sport, so people wave their pennant,
Speaker 2: but they don't think logically about what they're and that's
Speaker 2: why you have this whole Epstein fisser to bring it
Speaker 2: back to that, because uh, you know, look, the Republicans
Speaker 2: have become the big tent party and everybody has their
Speaker 2: wedge issue, and now what you have is a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of people that feel betrayed. Okay, but what's going
Speaker 2: to come out of this? They're going to go vote
Speaker 2: Democrat next time, or they're going to stay home. No,
Speaker 2: it's not like it's going to birth any movement. It's
Speaker 2: just it's the same old It's this that's why they
Speaker 2: call it political theater. It's the same old game.
Speaker 1: It's exactly Yeah, it's exactly fear you're you're substack what
Speaker 1: you mentioned a little bit, But so you got into
Speaker 1: your substack because you kind of want to just change
Speaker 1: the direction you were going.
Speaker 2: What about what about that substack attracted you to it?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 1: Was it the community involvement in general or was there
Speaker 1: something else, some other vibe about it that you really
Speaker 1: were into?
Speaker 2: It was it was literally the mechanics. So I have,
Speaker 2: as I told you, I've been doing TikTok lives over
Speaker 2: the years, and my TikTok handle is this theme. I'm
Speaker 2: not even looking to plug it, so I'm not going to.
Speaker 2: But it's it's Disney theme, okay, so I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2: You can put it in the metadata, so I don't.
Speaker 2: Even in the early days, I didn't even want to
Speaker 2: break that, right. I wouldn't even if I was doing
Speaker 2: like a live radio show, I'd go do it on
Speaker 2: my Instagram, you know, and I would take callers and
Speaker 2: a virtual phone bank. So I was always trying to
Speaker 2: do these things, but I was trying to do them
Speaker 2: wherever I could. I did a word press blog and
Speaker 2: was trying to get that going. I built up the
Speaker 2: discord and was trying to make that. I thought that
Speaker 2: would be more message board than it really was. So
Speaker 2: when I discovered that Substack was my blog and I
Speaker 2: had a newsletter, a monthly newsletter, was became a pain
Speaker 2: in the ass. Somebody said, hey, we'll do a newsletter.
Speaker 2: We'll help you, and then here I am every month
Speaker 2: trying to stream do a newsletter. It was too much.
Speaker 2: So Substack became obviously my podcast is everywhere, but Substack
Speaker 2: became a podcast, hosts a newsletter, a blog, and it
Speaker 2: took care of the discord, being able to have a
Speaker 2: chat thread and all these things. So it just became
Speaker 2: a one stop shop for everything. So it was literally
Speaker 2: the mechanics that makes a lot of sense. I never
Speaker 2: got into it.
Speaker 1: And honestly, you know, it's like you said earlier, you
Speaker 1: can get very overwhelmed doing this, Like you have to
Speaker 1: pay attention to all this different medium and you got
Speaker 1: to see on top of it, and I just barely
Speaker 1: keep up.
Speaker 2: With what I'm doing now. Same so when you're telling
Speaker 2: me your story, I'm like, I don't even know how
Speaker 2: you're able to keep up with all of it. Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty the whole kids series. At the same time,
Speaker 2: I'm relaunching my YouTube and next year or at the
Speaker 2: end year. It's crazy, man, I just readid you by YouTube?
Speaker 1: I destroyed it and just started relaunching it and focusing
Speaker 1: on video for the specific for that side of it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, definitely, I mean video editing. I never thought
Speaker 1: would be a video editing guy. I was always a
Speaker 1: sound engineer, right, and then I got into video because
Speaker 1: doing events also, and everybody wanted a live stream. And
Speaker 1: now I'm doing imag for concerts and we're doing all
Speaker 1: this stuff. And it's just a natural progression. Now, Henry,
Speaker 1: I'm spending hours and in front of the damn software
Speaker 1: just doing his waves.
Speaker 2: Man, you gotta streamline your workflow. Oh, I'll believe me.
Speaker 2: It's streamline. Maybe I'm just too picky. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You might be, but but but I only say that
Speaker 2: from experience, because no understood. The last four months, five
Speaker 2: months have been I feel like I've I've had a
Speaker 2: master class in assistive AI, and I have figured out
Speaker 2: how to use AI not to do the work, but
Speaker 2: to make it easier so I don't have to do
Speaker 2: the heavy lifting, so I can do like twenty. I
Speaker 2: think I heard somebody said, like, oh, like ten eighty
Speaker 2: ten or whatever. Everybody's got a bullshit phrase, But basically
Speaker 2: I can have a eighty twenty at whatever it was, like,
Speaker 2: ten eighty ten, whatever. I don't know. It might not
Speaker 2: even even added to one hundred. They might have gone
Speaker 2: over budget quite frankly. But it's just one of those
Speaker 2: things where you're like, oh, there's a way that I
Speaker 2: can do all Like when we do when you come
Speaker 2: on my podcast, we'll use software called Riverside. Yeah, I'm familiar, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I love it because by the time we're done,
Speaker 2: I've got my transcripts, I've got my clips, I've got
Speaker 2: everything I need. Now I might not use it all,
Speaker 2: but I've got options at my fingertips. And i haven't
Speaker 2: even I haven't even finished talking. So that's the kind
Speaker 2: of stuff that then buys me time to go. You
Speaker 2: know what, it's time to relaunch my YouTube because now
Speaker 2: I have the bandwidth.
Speaker 1: You know, technology is advancing in a way that yes
Speaker 1: or our benefits.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: My issue is is every time I've tried to use
Speaker 1: I was an early adopter of Riverside, and I can
Speaker 1: never get it to work consistently and correctly. Where I
Speaker 1: got so frustrated I just stopped using it. Interesting and
Speaker 1: I know they got better. I've tried it recently, No,
Speaker 1: I couldn't say recently. A few months back I had
Speaker 1: a guess where I was going to try to use it,
Speaker 1: and same frustrations.
Speaker 2: I just had to go back.
Speaker 1: I think I just want too much control, you know.
Speaker 1: I like to go back and multi track the audio.
Speaker 1: I want to have more control of the audio. I
Speaker 1: want the individual feeds, like.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just me. I mean, it's just me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But there's I mean, look not to push AI, but
Speaker 2: I mean AI can take stems out of an MP three. Yeahs.
Speaker 2: So you get to this point where I'm like, and
Speaker 2: it's for people love to resist this stuff. I love
Speaker 2: to be on the as close to the front of
Speaker 2: these things as possible. I always find myself finding the
Speaker 2: next thing when when whatever I'm doing starts to hit
Speaker 2: mass adoption, I'm onto the next. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I believe in using it as well, Royce. I just
Speaker 1: I guess I'm control freak.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: When it comes to my shorts, I absolutely use AI.
Speaker 1: I mean, I use a program that just doesn't I'm
Speaker 1: not sitting there. I'm not sitting there and doing I'm
Speaker 1: letting it do it for me. I'm going back and
Speaker 1: I might make an edit here or there, but other
Speaker 1: than that, I'm letting the software do it for me.
Speaker 1: I don't have time to do all that.
Speaker 2: I get it, man, I mean, I look, it took
Speaker 2: me so long to learn how to edit video on
Speaker 2: my cell phone, like to jump from Premiere to but
Speaker 2: this is years ago, to jump from Premiere to my
Speaker 2: cell phone, and at a certain point it became so
Speaker 2: clunky to try to take stuff off my phone and
Speaker 2: put it in premiere. I was like, stop being stubborn,
Speaker 2: and now I can edit. I can edit on two
Speaker 2: cell phones simultaneously. Yeah. Yeah, that's a bad day if
Speaker 2: I'm doing that.
Speaker 1: I tried to do a self phon thing. I got
Speaker 1: the I got the big you know thumb thing. I
Speaker 1: I can't do it. I got I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: get in front of my in front of my PC
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and you know, have everything laid
Speaker 1: out in front. I guess I'm just too old school.
Speaker 1: I don't know how old are you? Forty seven? All right,
Speaker 1: I just turned forty four, so we're we're the same ballpark.
Speaker 1: But I look, most of my my contemporaries don't touch
Speaker 1: the stuff. They're everybody's.
Speaker 2: It's still very very young, it's very very new, and
Speaker 2: I find it to be very exciting as a creator
Speaker 2: because it's giving me time to focus on more important things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, time management is the thing.
Speaker 1: Your time is valuable, so agreed, you know, and maybe
Speaker 1: I should look into more of that stuff. And that's
Speaker 1: also a good lesson for anybody who's getting into the
Speaker 1: space that you know, hey, take advantage of the technology
Speaker 1: out there. We'll give you more time.
Speaker 2: Don't let it do all the work, but let it
Speaker 2: do some of the heavy lifting so you don't have to.
Speaker 1: I got to look into the substack thing. I've always
Speaker 1: I've always heard. I've just never dove into it, and
Speaker 1: it's mostly a time thing for me. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been going through some of your stuff and it's
Speaker 1: pretty good. I mean, you're very active, and uh, it's
Speaker 1: really cool what you're doing, man, it really is. It's
Speaker 1: almost like you're, like you said earlier, from what I
Speaker 1: can tell, you're just reinventing yourself to it to a degree,
Speaker 1: Do you feel that way?
Speaker 2: I think, you know, reinvention Maybe not so much. I
Speaker 2: think I'm peeling back some layers that I buried. I
Speaker 2: I was involved in a lot of this political stuff
Speaker 2: early on. I don't know if you if you saw
Speaker 2: the art, like if you know anything about the Trump
Speaker 2: call and all that, No, I heard you talk about it.
Speaker 2: I wasn't really sure about what that was. Well so
Speaker 2: so so I'll answer your question and then I can
Speaker 2: give you the quick summation on that. But sure, it's
Speaker 2: not that it's a reinvention. But I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: going back to the things that I used to do
Speaker 2: and getting to show all of my myself. So I've
Speaker 2: gotten rid of the people that just wanted me to
Speaker 2: take them to Disney every day. Oh and I call
Speaker 2: that like a Disney daycare. And now I've got the
Speaker 2: people that, yeah, we really love it when you take
Speaker 2: us there, but we also want to hear about your
Speaker 2: other thoughts. So I've been able to kind of pull
Speaker 2: back in some stuff. So I would say it's more like,
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just being semantical now and it's just my
Speaker 2: own desire to control the narrative. But I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm shedding skin. If anything. I don't think it's a reinvention,
Speaker 2: because that would imply that I'm doing something I've never done,
Speaker 2: or it's new territory, and it's not new territory, you know.
Speaker 2: So and I can tell you the Trump story if
Speaker 2: you want to hear it real quick. Sure. So I
Speaker 2: let's see, I'm running an arcade business in Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: and somewhere along the line, I start branching out into
Speaker 2: doing content because content has always been a part of
Speaker 2: the thing. And I'm producing a podcast for Stuttering John
Speaker 2: from The Stern Show. Tonight's show former announcer, and he says, Oh,
Speaker 2: We're gonna have Casey Armstrong on the show today, and
Speaker 2: Casey Armstrong was a guy from The Stern Show back
Speaker 2: in the day. And Casey turns down at the last minute.
Speaker 2: I'm too busy and John didn't have anything to do,
Speaker 2: and I go, you know what you should do is
Speaker 2: you should call the White House because Trump had just
Speaker 2: gotten into office. I guarantee you can get through because
Speaker 2: a few weeks earlier, I was just po driving around
Speaker 2: and I got through to the White House and Hope
Speaker 2: Hicks called me back and I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: I think I'll hang up now, and so he goes,
Speaker 2: oh okay. He goes, well, I used to party with Trump.
Speaker 2: I used to go on the helicopter with him to
Speaker 2: AC So he picks up the phone and this is
Speaker 2: on his podcast, this is first term, and he goes, Hi,
Speaker 2: John Melendez. Click, they hang up, calls again. He goes,
Speaker 2: John Melendez, I used to hang out with Donald click,
Speaker 2: and I go, you gotta go my cousin Vinnie. You
Speaker 2: ever see my cousin Vinnie, not Melendez? Say Menendez, you know,
Speaker 2: not Jerry Callo, Jerry Gallo. I don't realize as I'm
Speaker 2: saying this, that corrupt senator from New Jersey, Bob Menendez,
Speaker 2: a Democrat, has ties to the Kushners and the Trumps.
Speaker 2: I just said it for the joke. Okay, Hi, White House,
Speaker 2: because mind you were calling the main switchboard, White House. Hi,
Speaker 2: this is a calling from Senator Bob Menendez's office. Oh
Speaker 2: hold on one second, please, right. So then, and John
Speaker 2: is doing like the worst fucking British accent you've ever heard,
Speaker 2: and he says his name is like it was like
Speaker 2: his name was like uh like it was like an
Speaker 2: amalgamation of like Bond names. It was like Sean, like
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what it was. It was like
Speaker 2: Sean Moore or something like that. And he goes, uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: my name is Sean Moore and my parents were big
Speaker 2: Bond fans, and like this is all getting through, and
Speaker 2: the woman's like, well, listen, we just have one question.
Speaker 2: If you're calling from Senator Bob Menendez's office, why do
Speaker 2: you have an eight one to eight area code from California?
Speaker 2: And he goes, oh, well on holiday in like the
Speaker 2: worst accent, and they're like, oh, that makes sense. So
Speaker 2: the next thing you know, they're like, we'll call you back.
Speaker 2: We wrap up the podcast and we're like, fuck, that
Speaker 2: was close. We're done. And I get a call that
Speaker 2: night and he goes, I just got off the phone
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump. I go, what? He goes. Jared Kushner
Speaker 2: called me I was on a date with some girl.
Speaker 2: I go, I gotta go. They were at a restaurant.
Speaker 2: He goes, I gotta go outside. The President's calling. I go,
Speaker 2: you must you had to have gotten laid right, because
Speaker 2: like that's the ultimate Like I don't think he did,
Speaker 2: which is a whole other commentary on him. But so
Speaker 2: I get this voicemail like this this this MP three
Speaker 2: texted to me because his buddy recorded the call a
Speaker 2: third party. I spend two days trying to get this
Speaker 2: out into the media. I finally Politico picked it up,
Speaker 2: and it was a whirlwind, but it was I basic.
Speaker 2: I produced that call on Air Force one, so so
Speaker 2: so so reinvention, not so much dipping my toe back
Speaker 2: in the water. Maybe that's that's I like that story.
Speaker 2: It's a fun story, man. I try to tell it
Speaker 2: as quick as possible.
Speaker 1: That is well, Royce, I don't hold you up anymore
Speaker 1: because you're in a you're in a completely different time zone,
Speaker 1: but not man, joining this. I I like this conversation
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to joining you on your podcast
Speaker 1: down the road here. So with that being said, Man,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, I want to wrap this up,
Speaker 1: get on with my evening over here, and uh again,
Speaker 1: appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: I really do. Thank you for coming on. I really do,
Speaker 2: and thank you.
Speaker 1: I hope everything you do moving forward is just a success.
Speaker 1: And I know that doesn't always mean for all of us.
Speaker 2: It's just.
Speaker 1: Keep at it, man. I mean, you've been doing this
Speaker 1: a while and I like what you're doing. It's great,
Speaker 1: it really is. I like your attitude. Man, you always
Speaker 1: coming at it with a little bit of humor, and
Speaker 1: it's like you're just very engaging. And it was a great,
Speaker 1: great conversation, great experience, man, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on. I look forward to
Speaker 2: having you on my show. And honestly, I don't do
Speaker 2: a lot of this, but it's it's really nice to
Speaker 2: have these kind of conversations and to hear how other
Speaker 2: people are thinking and to be reminded that at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, we all want the same stuff,
Speaker 2: absolutely for and be honest.
Speaker 1: Down the road, I'll probably have you on again if
Speaker 1: you're open.
Speaker 2: So any time, man, I really enjoyed this, I really did.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how long we've done here. I
Speaker 2: have no concept of time right now. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Let me look down. I think we're about yeah, just
Speaker 2: over two hours. Okay, I found about two hours. But
Speaker 2: it no, no, it's not a bad thing. No no, no,
Speaker 2: it's not. Thank you, thank you. I'm gonna go ahead
Speaker 2: and grab this up, sir, take your content of your field. Attention, devils,
Speaker 2: high high temption, high stairs on my get do do
Speaker 2: do do do do do do do do do