Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, This is Martin Willis. This is a little
pre show talk. I'm just telling you that this is
normally our show on Tuesday nights, but this is actually
Saturday night. And the reason is is because the guests
that I have coming up, Mark Munroe and Paul Crowder.
Their series premieres on Sunday night, the twenty seventh, and
so I'm talking with him in just a minute. But
in our regular time slot on Tuesday, I have Linda
Zimmerman and because it's Halloween week, we are going to
be talking ghost stories a little bit different. It's not
going to be an UFO show, and that's coming up
as the regular scheduled show on Tuesday. Thank you and
enjoy this show. Hello and welcome to the show. I'm
Martin Willashire host. We have a special show for you
this evening. We're going to be introducing Beyond UFOs and
the Unknown. I had to make a quick look over
to make sure I got that right. And that premieeres Sunday,
October twenty seventh at ten pm Eastern and Pacific, and
I have two people involved with that and I'll bring
them right in. Paul Crowder, welcome, and Mark Monroe. Welcome
to both of you.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: And one of the benefits of doing this show is,
you know, I get to see the screeners before others.
Speaker 2: I love that. And I was very impressed with your show.
Speaker 1: And as I was joking, I saw that my iPhone
made it into You're a Film And that's because I
was at the DC hearing and in the back filming
the whole thing. And it was so funny. They told
us when we were going into the hearing that no pictures, no,
you know, couldn't even take pictures or filming or anything.
And then once I walked in, I talked to the
guy at the end of the aisle who was managing everything,
and he says, hey, knock yourself out as long as
it doesn't interfere with anything. So I would have been
better prepared, but at least I did get it call
in film. That was exciting. So that's basically episode one.
You know, you talk about that, but I want to
I want to ask you both and what your you know,
your involvement was, but I'll start with you Mark. What
was your interest in this topic? I imagine you have
some of an interest to even do something like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, I can't say that I'm
an you know, I've had an experience. I'm not someone
who like you know, had experience as a small child.
I've been chasing answers ever since. I am curious about
the world, and I was fascinated, totally fascinated, particularly with
the big storytellers of our time, you know, Spielberg or
Lucas and these big films about you know, space, about life,
about our lives, about other potential lives. And so you
would say I would, I would, you know, I was
interested in the story in that sense, right, And of course,
over the last five six years, I mean, the world
has changed so dramatically, like hasn't it.
Speaker 2: To be interested in it.
Speaker 3: When I was a teenager, it was something as a
teenager you could do, just like you were interested in
Mad magazine or something. You know, it's it was. It
was just kind of like a weird little hobby or whatever.
And and you would think that people who were kind
of dedicated to it, they were kind of they were
pushed to the margins of our society.
Speaker 2: They were weirdos, they were strange thinkers, they.
Speaker 3: Were stigmatized all that, right, But you know, once the
government says, Hey, there's something going on that we can't explain,
and one of the possibilities could be another life form
or science and technology that we don't think exists.
Speaker 2: By human hands.
Speaker 3: Once that's out of the bag, the genie, you know,
the genie is out of the bottle like suddenly.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: I mean, on this show alone, you know, no one
said no to us. The idea that six or seven
years ago I could have called Adam Shift's office or
Nancy Gillibrand's office and said, hey, would you like to
talk about UFOs. The idea that they would say yes,
right is very strange, but they did so I think
that tells you the new world we're in. So in
that sense, yeah, I'm very interested.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it was a it was a you know,
I started doing the show in twenty eleven, and I
saw the whole shift As a matter of fact. You know,
I do believe that one of the kind of high
profile jobs that I had ended, and I found out
later that it could have had to do the person
said I have to watch what I do in my
personal life, and the only thing I can think of
is UFO. So, I mean, there was that stigma and
so yeah, Ever since twenty seventeen in December, everything has
changed and so many people are looking at the topic
and scientists have gotten involved, which I love that. And also,
like you're saying, you know, Jill a brand, she's not
embarrassed to talk about it, and it's a bipartisan issue.
I'd love to see AOC and Matt Gates getting along.
It was pretty interesting. But absolutely, Yeah, Paul, it's your turn.
How about yourself?
Speaker 4: Well, I've always been interested in the subject. Two thousand
and one, beautiful film. I love, you know, always looking
at the sky when the guys were on the moon
for the you know, those few years, I kept looking
out Can I see them moving on? You know, I
was just just fascinated the whole space thing. Closing counters
came out. I'm first in lighted to go see that,
you know, and fascinated by it. Always have been, always
wanted to see one. Never have I sat on my
porch out here staring at the skies every night. Come on, guys.
But my wife's seen one, and it's her birthday today,
by the way. But she's had an experience and an
experience she can't explain. And you know, there's no reason
why she would lie about it, you know, in any fashion.
What's very very interesting is the two friends of hers
who were in the car with her don't want to
talk about it. And they went this object was flying
by the car they were driving. The driver woke up screaming,
it doesn't have regulation lights, doesn't have regulation lights, freaking out.
They're all like waking up half one. And then they
see this what was like pink light object traveling to
the side, goes in front of the car, sits over
the freeway. They drive right underneath it. I'm convinced she's
been abducted. Drove right underneath it, and she turned around
and looked out the window and shot off up into
the sky. So but the other two guys, we don't
want to talk about it at all.
Speaker 1: Now you must have heard of the Missing Time thing.
Did she talk about anything, Petliar?
Speaker 4: No, No, no, no, I mean I just tease her
that she's been abducted to Yeah. But you know, I've
always been fascinated with the subject. And what has been
great is that with all these you know, with the
technology we have now, there are a lot more cameras
in their hands. That's great. Sadly our eyes come out
now just destroying the landscape because there's so many, so
easy to make fake ones now, so we've gone back
to the days where people used to use this super
eight and throw discs across the thing or yeah, exactly
brings to do their own thing. So it's like always
taking that weird turn. But what has happened, especially since
two thousand and some team when the articles came out
and the government admitted about the program and that all
came to light was academia came in everybody who had
been there doing it. But we had to do it very,
very carefully, trade carefully because of the stigma that you
used to be around. That went away. The stigma was gone.
You've got navy pilots saying I've seen these things. You've
got people that you have you can't you know, dismissed
them as some crazy person like it's just like sitting
in a field somewhere. These are serious people who have
said it, and the government have said, yes, these programs exist.
Then they've backtracked and they've done their wonderful government jig
that they do. But it's it's now been it's able
to be completely explored in every fashion, and they're coming
up with all these these wonderful things that we didn't know.
I mean, but if you go back through Jacquelai's history
and put Off as well, and other people that we have,
they've all been studying these things for decades, multiple decades,
writing books on these things. There are papers and everything
to to that. Then they haven't been scared to talk
about it, and they've been deeply involved and with the
government and all that stuff. But now that you know,
now that they can really really explore, You've got that's
in our show. Gary Nolan, a scientist deeply involved with
this whole subject. Now, you know, having you know, people
show up in his office to say, hey, we're from
the government. We want you to look at these things
that these scans, brain scans, they're all connected to the
UFO events. And he's like, really, where's the camera? You know,
I'm getting punked here and and no, it was a
real thing. And so you know, it's fascinating that all
these people now come forward and can talk about it openly,
write books about it, put it in the newspaper, put
it on TV. We can make these shows and no
one's going to go yeah, right, guys, you know that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really amazing if you think about, you know,
the way you're talking about progressing. How you know, I'm
not even embarrassed. I'm a fine art antique appraiser, and
if I feel comfortable with someone I'm talking in the house,
I'll go there. And before I was scared to death
to go there, you know, like I'd be pushed out
of the house or something. But anyway, you going back
to the AI, I've been told, and I don't know
if this is true or not, but I've been told
that they can there's a way to figure out if
those if the hoaxes, hoax images and videos are made
with that. But I'm not sure there's some type of
signature that you can tell. I hope, so that would
be nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right now you can tell, Oh, come on, you
know they I haven't got the tracking quite right. A
lot of people are doing them cheaply, but you know,
if somebody wanted to spend a lot of time, I mean,
we will go to the theater and we're watching a
lot of stuff these days that they're doing a lot
of stuff in front of the green screen and we're
believing what we see, so they could be easily faked. Yeah,
as far as they're being a signat show, I don't know.
The key thing is the guys, the pilots and those people.
They're not making a videos.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the real thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love I love listening to the pilots, Ryan
Graves and you know other people you've had on your
in your episodes there. But I mean it's really it's
really quite amazing, and I think that you know, the
thing that I think is really important is that there's
nowhere in your episodes that I saw the two shows
that I watched that someone is saying they know what
they are, because that's that's we really don't know exactly
what they are. And I really wonder if the government
knows just a partial I say that on this show
that I think the government may know the partial story,
but I don't believe they know the full story. And
and that's going to make it really hard for disclosure,
because how can they tell us they know part of it?
You know, I mean that's not very safe.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you know Brian Bender, great journalists these
political these days. Yeah, he makes that point, you know,
for everyone who's you know, kind of waiting for disclosure.
Speaker 2: It could be that they don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: If they don't know what it is, it's hard to
tell the rest of us, right, And so I think
they know enough, or you know, there's a good chance
they know enough to be worried, to be worried for
security reasons, to be worried for a lot of reasons.
But when when you have something that's unexplained, you know,
there's a paternal instinct that thinks, oh, the government will
will protect us, they'll keep us safe.
Speaker 2: Oh the government knows all.
Speaker 3: These things, they have all the answers, you know that
you think of the warehouse and raiders of the Lost Ark.
Speaker 2: They've just been out there somewhere, you know.
Speaker 3: But you know, there's every there's every bit of you know,
the chance that they actually don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: That they're just as flunix as the rest of us.
They may know a.
Speaker 3: Little bit more or have a little bit more in
terms of evidence or answers, but but a definitive what
is it?
Speaker 2: What are they? I think it is hard to imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and there's you know, the the length of
time that I've been looking at this sometimes when the
topic of interdimensional comes up, it kind of makes sense,
you know. I mean, that's another thing that is a possibility.
And there's doctor Michael Masters, you know, talks about time travel,
and you know, I mean, there's it must have been
really fun for you to really look into this topic
deeply and find these people.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, I think because it's broader than just UFOs,
or at least potentially more broad than UFOs, And I think,
you know, it was tremendously fun to hear Jacques val
A talk about interdimensionality and the fact that he'd written,
you know, a fictional work about multiple dimensions, right, because
back in the sixties you didn't write stuff that you
thought would get you in trouble, so you would write
it as a piece of fiction, even though the theories
within it are theories that you were interested in in
terms of our world today. And so, you know, the
point that he made to us, which always struck me,
is that you know.
Speaker 2: This is not like quaque physics. This is classical physics.
This is Nobel Prize winning physics. Right.
Speaker 3: The idea that there are more dimensions that that could,
you know, be at the foundation of our of our world, as.
Speaker 2: You know, in terms of being human.
Speaker 3: This is this is classic physics, and so it's not
too wild to take that classic physics model and put
it on top of experiences that have no explanation, right,
And that's basically what we're talking about here. But that
extends to you know, near death experiences. That extends to
to you know, remote viewing or clairvoyance or the deja
vus or feeling that you sense or know something's going
to happened before it does happen. Right, some of us
seem to have that, and seem to have that in
approvable way, like they're right over and over again. And
so why why do some of us have it and
some of us not? And why do some people see
UFOs and some people don't. I don't know if they're connected,
but certainly it's a great fun to.
Speaker 1: Talk about, right, And Paul, to what you were saying earlier,
it's very very common. I've heard it so many times
where there'll be multiple witnesses and even a good friend
of mine when he was young, he was with two
other friends and this thing was right over them and
hovering right over them, and they will not to this
day they will not talk about it, and it's not
unusual at all. It's it's I think everyone it affects
everyone differently, and also the reactions are different as well.
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's perception first of all, it's like, what
are people to take seriously? Also, you know, people that
don't it's talk about it is because it it asks
questions they don't want to answer. And especially if you've
got to think about it from the religious side of things. Yes,
you know, there's a lot a lot of sort of
you know, really go into this in the in the show,
but there is a lot of feeling that you know,
these many a lot of these many black people, that's
where they stem from. Because the industry of religion is
so it's worth so much money to have to reconsider
everything that we've been taught. That's why people get scared
to talk about it, because not just that, but all
sorts of different things as to what it means and
to what I believe. And I want to go on
believing the world I lived in before that event. So
the best way for me to just continue on this
path is to not talk about it and just forget it,
put it to the back of your mind, and it
doesn't happen. And if somebody reminds you you don't have
any recollection, you know it's because for many So you've
got all those reasons. What is great now those who
were fearful of being stigmatized, they no longer have to be.
You know, they can now speak up and say their peace.
And you know, people like Whitley, who was you know,
wrote a book and people made fun of him forever
since his experience in his book came out communion. Everybody
now believes that all all aliens come down here and
probere butts like a continuous thing that everyone makes that
joke in any science fiction comedy or anything where someone's
there's like it's a there's a butcher. Even in Gofman
they have the guy who's, you know, every day at
Sunday at six o'clock, my butcket's got numb in, absolutely exactly,
and you know that's exactly what everyone was up against
all those The great thing is now that that's gone
and we can talk about it openly and not be
ridiculed and not be fearful. So again you have more
people coming forward, and now everyone has a camera on
the hip so they're you know, gens in their hand
at any given moment, and most of the young people
are ready split second to get Cameron and getting it.
So I wish they turn it the right way instead
of vertical. But anyway, you know, that's that gives us
more information. Now, that is so much more stuff that
is possibly out there, things that we can see, fascinating
stuff about the volcanoes and them halving around volcanoes and
being coming in and out of the ocean and stopping
being fascinated always being seen around nuclear sites and all
this stuff where it's like at an elevation of intelligence
that's going on that could be potentially what it's about.
You know, the interdimensional thing is not only fascinating, it's
been talked about for years, but that makes it so
much easier to exploan if you think into dimensions. That's
how I got I went twenty thousand light years or
twenty million billion light years, I traveled across from that
place to hear because it was interdimensional. It's not a
straight line at certain speed. So now it becomes a
lot more explainable, a lot more understandable. Even if we
don't understand the physics of anything outside of the three
dimensions we live in that we you know, experience. There's
so much more to that. And as Mark said, you know,
that's exactly what Chad Valley was writing about in the sixties.
You know, now it's from the Mark. The Marvel DC
franchise love it because they can just keep rechading out
these things and putting all the actions together because they're
all from the multiverse. So it's it is a fascinating subject.
But you know, it's definitely something to explore.
Speaker 3: I think going back to the you know, how people
talk about it or unwilling to talk about it. I
think a lot of times when when something happens in
your life that's not explained or it's hard to explain,
it can be traumatic. I think these experiences are no
different than other traumatic experiences. A lot of people don't
want to talk about for a spectrum of emotions that
they're forced to confront. And so you know the fact
that Willie Streemer wrote a book that spoke to you know,
tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands of people in
a time when you couldn't just reach out and touch
someone through the internet like we have today, we're talking
about a time when people had to sit down and
write their thoughts down in a letter. Send that letter, right,
and you know they went through all those letters and
you know, I know again tens of thousands of them
were very very personal items that they had not spoken
to about to other human beings, but felt comfortable enough
having read Communion to write down, to commit to paper,
pen to paper, six seven eight pages is a very
confessional stuff. And send it to a guy who wrote
a book. That tells you, you know, I mean that's
that's a small kind of pilot study, but that that
tells you, you know, there's a vast number of people
who have had experiences probably they can't explain.
Speaker 2: That we haven't learned about yet, that probably have taken
them to their graves. Right, Oh yeah, because how an
ability to talk about.
Speaker 1: It and for generations, probably for generations.
Speaker 4: Gary Notan talks about it in the show. You know
he hadn't experienced as a.
Speaker 1: Child, right and the first time I.
Speaker 4: Heard it say that, yeah, And then he sees them
on the show cover and he's like, oh wait a second,
that's that. Those are the guys that are in my bedroom.
Speaker 1: So I can tell you, yeah, I don't know if
either one of you have ever heard about the Allegash incident.
This happened up in Maine in nineteen late nineteen seventy eight.
I think it was our summer seventy eight. Four artists.
They were up there and they were out in a
canoe basically, and one of them flashed the light and
they just they don't. All they remember is when they
got back to shore that the campfire that they had
built really high up so they could find their way
back to their campsite was all down to Cole's and
they said, how the heck did that happen? They didn't,
you know, so time had passed, but it was several years.
I think it was ten years later. Jim Wiener, that's
just the last name, Jim and Jack Wiener, the twins.
He fell got into a construction accident and broke his back,
a terrible mess. Was in the hospital forever, and he
was reading book. They were reading books. He kept having
these weird dreams and not really understanding. And again they
never even talked about it. The next day, you know
what happened. But all of a sudden, Whitley's book came
on the cart on the library cart and he saw
it and everything came back to him. He goes, oh
my god, and realized what happened. I mean, that book
has so many people have told me that that book,
those creatures, they've seen them, you know, which is really bizarre.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and but consistent with it. It's like that image
of the cover, it wasn't you know, like they've all
seen different things. They've all seen something that looks like
what we're calling the grays, right, Yes, these days, they've
all had that image and that image is but you
know there's some people saying, yeah, we've been spoon feeding
you this image, so you get used to it. So
when we reveal them culture thing, yeah yeah, but no
it is it's triggering to people. They have shut it
off and suddenly these memories come flooding back. And that's
that's what's fascinating about the whole thing. And it's all
about the mind as well, what the mind perceives, how
we perceive it. I mean, really, you know, our brain
works as a bunch of on and off signals, so
you know, we can taste and color and everything. You know,
what I see is red. Everybody else could think it's blue,
but we all. I call it red and they call
it red, you know, apgociation. Yeah, but at the same time,
it's all perceptions. So it was And what's great is
we don't we know. We don't know a lot of things.
You know, the unknown is real and as long as
I don't think we'll ever know everything. So there's always
more to learn. And these stories are going to continue
to evolve and we're going to discover more about them
and explain more about them and understand them a little more.
But there is definitely a correlation with all of them,
with seeing UFOs, near death experiences, you know, out of
body experiences, remote viewing, all those things are all in
some fashion in here doing things that a lot of
us can't explain or be able to do the drop
of a hat. I mean, remote viewing is another thing
that's been going on for decades. And you know, I
know I have friends that can do it, and they
can do it, but they also they clear houses of
ghosts and things, have these abilities to make things better
in the location. And I just have to say, my
friend's got they think there's a pot of guy's going on.
There's something weird going on, And she says what's the address,
and then she and she can go there, and you
know has done things that and explained. When she's explained
what was there everybody else who's been having these experiences
with these things. That's exactly right. It's not like she's
just guessing the same thing. She's hitting details that correlate
with the people's experiences in these places. So there are
people I know that have these and my daughter has
a little bit of it too. She can do some
of this stuff. It's it's you know, I just don't
you know, we don't know. But there there are so
many things that are so unexplained, which is why we
call the show what We Did, because it's really difficult
to really put a finger on everything.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: There's an Isaac Sir Isaac Newton quote that goes something
like what we know is a drop, or we don't
know was an ocean? Right, And I believe that, and
I say this a number of times in my show.
We probably don't even know what's going on around us,
right right next to us. You know, there's probably things
going and happening that we can't even imagine or know
or see or sense.
Speaker 4: In with our census, no, apparently I mean, like with
what the pilots are seeing and what they're allowed to
talk about, and you know there are they have more,
there's more information. You know, these pilots have come forward
with a certain amount. They released a couple of videos
for us, but they have a lot more information and
a lot more stuff that they've collected on these events.
So they know a lot more than we know. There
is a lot more going on than we understand that
we've been told. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a percentage of people that absolutely
have no idea that there was a front page story
in the New York Times in December twenty seventeen, or
they weren't watching the news, you know. For instance, I
do run into those people and my cousin recently, like
she's rolling her eyes and I said, you'd never heard
about the Pentagon, saying, you know that these things are real,
whatever they are, they don't know what they are, but
they're real, and no, you know, she couldn't believe it.
So there is that percentage, And I still think the
word needs to get out. You know, people are very
busy in their lives. They're looking at their phones, have
to you know, make the mortgage payment and you know,
their bills and things like that. A lot of people
don't even really pay attention to this, but there is
I do think it's a lot more than ever that
do at this point. But here's here's the question. I'm
going to post it either one of you and I'm
talking about the United States government. Don't you think it's
kind of unusual that they know this is happening and
they're not spending like a fortune to figure it out.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the fact of the matter is, we
don't really know how much they're spending, right, I mean,
they build they built a bomb thirty years ago that
no one knew about, and they spent billions upon billions
doing that and we had no idea until they, you know,
unveiled the thing. And that was thirty years ago. So
what have they been spending money on the last thirty years?
So we really don't know. And certainly the one thing
we do know is that the government is thick as
these with the defense industry, you know, and those those corporations,
don't you know, they don't have to they're not bound
by the same transparency issues that the government is. So
if the government's in cahoots with one of these big
defense contractors and they've put things there, or they've they've
tested things there, They've they've built things there, they've created
things there. We're never going to know that unless it's
unveiled to the public. So this is all part of
you know, what we're learning, you know, post the go
Fast video and post the pilots coming out and saying, wait,
there is a program here.
Speaker 2: There is money being spent.
Speaker 3: And granted that an initial kind of disclosure was a
very small amount of money in terms of the government,
in terms of office tracking UFOs, that.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that it hasn't been going on for years.
Absolutely deeper and deeper down.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I was talking again to Brian Bender and he's like,
you know, certainly there are people high up in the
in the Pentagon. They they have no clue what's you
know happening deep down in the bunkers. All right, there
was there was funded two decades ago. Right, it's it's
it's outside of their purview.
Speaker 1: So black money is disappearing, you know, I mean it's
going somewhere exactly.
Speaker 4: You know how police tells us in the in the
show that stuff like Project blue Book. It didn't go away,
it just went duped. They were still they could not
keep looking at these things. They had to keep going.
They just weren't telling anybody they were doing it, and
they're not going to and they're not going to and
they don't have too because it's all in the case
of a national security they're not going to disclose these things,
and that all that's all they have to say. It's
because of national security. We can't tell you. I mean,
these pilots who are seeing these things that could be
our technology, that it's a different department than nobody knows about.
You know, there's if so there is a lot of
there's always going to be secrecy. There's always gonna be
somebody higher up, you know. And yes, but I think
what we all would love it to be is it
something else. It's it's something new that can that we've
got yet to find out. You know, we're going to
find out more and we're going to know more about
our existence because this all comes down to me, you know,
the question we always ask it says, why are we here?
Maybe these guys will be able to tell us and
maybe we get to live forever, because that's what we
really want to you know, with all this information, there's
a lot of hope in what our futures might be.
You know. So I think that that's why it's fascinates
so many people for so long, because that's what we all.
We will desire those things, you know, we want to
know more and we want it to be real. There
are you know, Star Trek was true. There's really people
on other planets. You just beamed down to their planet
and there are people you know, e t was real.
It's all you know, Close Encounters was real. It's all fascinating,
it's wonderful stuff, and so much of that stuff comes through.
I mean, look, somebody told me off the record, you
know Roswell's for real. That happened, you know, so that
that's not that's something that's still mythical, but it really,
you know that that happened. There are things that continue
to happen.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: The remote viewing people remote viewing information that they saw.
They were able to describe information that didn't quite correlate
it like it was ninety percent correct, but there was
something there was some buildings missing. Those buildings were there
ten years later, So they were remote viewing the future.
They were in it, So that gives you the dimensions
thing again, you know. So it I mean in every fashion,
from it being extra terrestrial to it being it's out
something we can do with our minds. That we're expanding
our minds to different places and experiencing things for those
reasons that we don't know how to control those for
it to be anything fantastical, it's all fascinating and it's
all unknown, and it's and that's the beauty of it.
We know we don't know, so we're open to all
these ideas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what you just mentioned there about someone confirming rise, well,
I had. I had a guest on the show. He
was in Peru. He was a marine in Peru in
nineteen ninety seven and they went there was a downed aircraft.
They didn't really know what it was. There was no
trans ponder. They went in the jungle with their hummers
and then on foot and came across this tear drape
drop shaped thing that was like wedged in a rock.
Fluid coming out of it, the whole craft changing colors,
liquid changing colors as well. He got some on his
shirt when he went up to it. There was a
hand hanging out, which is even more bizarre. H he's
only talked to two people, and that's myself and one
other James Fox and Leslie came you know, years ago.
He's talked to them in two thousand and one and
then he talked to me. Doesn't want to talk to
anybody about it. He had men in black situation actually
show up at his grandmother's house. You know, she described
these very strange guys in a car. You know, one
was sitting in the car and one came to the door.
But it goes on and on and on. But what
I'm getting at is I had a connection to David Grush.
I did get to meet him, but I had a
connection to him, and he went and got back to
me and say, yes, that is a confirmed situation and
prou and ieen ninety seven. So it's you know, it's
nice to get some type of confirmation, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a couple of stories we cover in in
al Thing where you know, in the beach in Brazil
where they you know, suddenly there's this craft and this
leaked material and stuff that they've collected and that you know,
if it was a secret program, why would they leave
it in Brazil, you know, on this beach in Brazil,
and you know another one, another one here in America.
There's all these different things that get confirmed by the
people around them, and now they've actually got the materials
at Jack Valet has a lot of these materials. Gary
Nolan's looked at these materials and dissected them and talked
about them. So there are lots of tangible things that
leave a lot of questions unanswered because it's not technology
is not a way we would have this materials. Wouldn't
we wouldn't mix them in this fashion. That's not how
we would lately, these metals or whatever they are, right,
they're they're not that the elements are foreign to us,
but they just won't be put together like.
Speaker 1: This, that's right. Yeah, that's the metallurgy is. Yeah, there's
a lot of study in that, and you know, I mean,
who knows what we'll we'll find out, you know, I mean,
I guess I'm going to throw this question to either
one or you can answer it. What do you think
would be a big enough of an issue for like
to say, the United States government to say, Okay, yeah,
they're they're this or they're that. Do you think that
they would have to have that that you're talking about,
the evidence the metals very strange. Do you think that
would be enough or do you think it would have
to be a known craft because it's possible that there
is already a craft or two or three or four
or whatever.
Speaker 2: But I mean, do you.
Speaker 1: Think that in a public form?
Speaker 3: I think if you listen to these pilots, you know,
these things that are buzzing around them during these training
exercises that have been reported again and again and again
by the Navy, by the way, not the Air Force.
Air Force pilots they're training in the same places. You
would have to think they're seeing some of the same things.
But I think if there's if there's an I don't
want to predict it or suggest it, but if there
is an accident or if there's a problem right with
a plane due to one of these things, I think
that would that would cause a tremendous uproar.
Speaker 2: Right if there was some.
Speaker 3: Unfortunate incident that happens that causes you know, a crash
or something to happen, Because that's why the pilots are reporting.
Speaker 2: Them, right. They don't feel safe.
Speaker 3: These things are flitting about up there and they're uncertain
about you know, what they're doing and what they're capable
of doing while they're flying three hundred miles an hour.
So if there was something like that that happened, I
think you would you would find a lot more And
it wouldn't even be necessarily our military. But if it
was made public that any any military plane had some
sort of incident that caused you know, the plane to
go down or caused an accident of some sort, I
think you would you would find a lot more eyes
money information coming out about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we have situations where that supposedly happened,
but nothing you know, that has a lot of evidence.
It was a situation where a young pilot in Australia,
Villain Tech I think his name is. But I mean
there are cases but nothing where you know, that's always
been the problem. It's been a fleeting situation and no
grounded evidence, you know. I mean there are trace cases,
lots of trace cases though, which are very interesting, but well.
Speaker 4: I think it comes down to also this. I mean,
if they are a threat to us, right and they're
here and they are some sort of threat, and they
know about it, and they then suddenly say hey, yeah,
we didn't know about this. That's not going to shine
well on anybody. They can't admit we've known about this
awful threat for so long and we've you know, not
protected you by not telling you. So I think there's
that part of it where they wouldn't. I would say
it's more of a case is that they're not a threat,
And I think it's more a case of the the
institutions that get changed, the whole financial institutions to a
lot of what's going on, the perception of it all
is completely different, and it's going to get changed, and
I'm not sure that anybody really wants that to happen
once everyone's lives to be up ended in that fashion.
So will they come forward. It's difficult for the government
to say, yeah, we knew about it all the time.
They'd have to play alone with like, oh, well you know, yeah,
it would have to go that way, because otherwise there'd
be way too many questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd have a lot of explaining they would.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be, it would be. It would be
one of those things.
Speaker 3: In the meantime though, In the meantime, though, you had
I think what you see over the past five six,
seven years again with the with the stigma kind of
falling away somewhat m hm. And you know we talked
about the letter writers for Whitley Streeper. That was thirty
years ago, right, and you have, I think now, more
opportunities for more people who have experienced things they can't
explain to.
Speaker 2: Talk about it. Oh yeah, and that number is growing.
You know.
Speaker 3: You look at someone else we visited within our in
our series, Jay Christopher King. He's a young, younger guy
who had an experience he couldn't explain, had multiple experiences
he couldn't explain. And you know ten years ago, twenty
years ago, thirty years ago, he might have turned inward,
kept it to himself, become you know, a different person
in the world. But in this world we live in today,
in which you can put out your feelings and your
thoughts to the rest of the world with a punch
of a button. Right, He's created a platform. Yes, It
invites people who have had strange things happen in their
lives to anonymously get on the platform and talk to
other people so that they have an outlet, so they
have some way to express these emotions that are going
through them about these things they can't explain. I think
that's fascinating and I think those numbers are going to
grow and grow and grow. You know, when there was
a stigma, there was a lot more desire or not desire,
but there was a lot more isolation, yes, And I
think removing that isolation, you know, is going to lead
to a mood change across our population about what this is.
With more and more numbers of people who are open
to trying to figure it out, you have less and
less kind of standing in the way of the search
to figure it.
Speaker 1: Out, right, right. Jay's great. I did get to meet
him and at the DC hearing. Actually he's been on
the show as well. But yeah, I really like what
he's doing. And you know, I say this, I've never
had any you know, type of abduction thing, thank god,
because I would be a wreck. I don't know how
I could function in life. So I think it's whatever
is happening to these people, maybe it's even something else,
but they definitely need someone to share that with and
you know, share the burden of it and talk about
it and you know, feel like they're not so alone
whatever it is that's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you think about John Mack and the
work he did in that space, and the first thing
he said he would say is like, these people don't
want to be known.
Speaker 2: These people don't want to come forward.
Speaker 3: This is not something that they want to you know,
hang a flag outside their house and probably oh to the.
Speaker 2: Rest of the world. Yeah, right, that's the last thing
they want.
Speaker 3: But to know that it's affecting multiple people, or multiple
people are confirming that they believe an experience like that
has happened to them, right, It's important for them to
be able to speak to someone for them, So I
think it's a valuable.
Speaker 4: Thing, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, at a lot of the conferences they
will have you know, experiences meetings and they're very extremely
well attended. Even I was up in Shack however, Nova
Scotia at an event up there a few weeks ago,
and it's the the experienceers meetings start at seven thirty am,
and it was still packed. You know, you'd think that
it wouldn't be so packed, but it was even at
that time.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's because the new world we're in.
I absolutely believe that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, And Paul I understand you're getting. Poor
Paul just had I don't even know if you wanted
to say this, but you had surgery, Lee, and thank
you for being a trooper. We're just about done, they'll Paul.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just you know, doctor's orders don't take you
passble a minute.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I know you have to readjust yourself every
single so often. So let's talk about your episode one.
It's premiering this Sunday at ten pm Eastern and Pacific,
and that's October twenty seventh, and revelations of the secret
Pentagon programs. That's what you kind of talk about in
that one. Episode two November three, and it's about UFO's
machines in the skies jockh Valais and that one, and
also Whitley Strieber. And then three is November tenth, and
I'm going to have links in the show notes to
this and down in the text and academics and scientists.
I love that that particular theme, and I know Gary Nolan,
like you mentioned, is involved in that. And episode four
is November seventeenth, and that is Mavericks that unexplained phenomenon
like remote viewing. They get into all those other type
of things. Uh, so this is what you call a
limited series. I guess do you actually want to continue this?
Speaker 2: Is that a thought?
Speaker 3: Well, that's the magic of this whole uh, this whole
topic is that there's so many unanswered questions and there's
so many strange things in our world that really if
you dig deep enough or really about us, about you know,
being human, and so I think we'd love to keep going.
I think that there are a lot of other doors
and portals that lead to these questions about human life. Yeah,
there's one of them, and it's a great one, but
it's not the only one that's right exactly.
Speaker 4: And so it's ever evolving. While we've been making the show.
More information's coming to light. But we didn't get the
show because we would have dealt with production. But you know,
we could have made four more episodes with what's come
to light, you know, in the last six months. So
it's all He's always plenty to talk about on this subject,
and it's just completely fascinates more and more. The more
you look into all of these things, it just wants
you to just tell me more, tell me more, because
you've just made me think about a lot more other questions.
Now that's good.
Speaker 1: I'm doing my job. Yeah, yeah, So I'm gonna play
the trailer here. We're going to run the trailer and
then I'll be right back to say goodbye. As a
fighter pilot, and when we were a flying it looked
like a dark queue inside of a clear sphere.
Speaker 4: The pentagon'sman line to us about UFOs, these cases often
don't see the light of day.
Speaker 2: People are taking uros more silius streak.
Speaker 1: Now they're of documented incidents, recording something out there.
Speaker 4: It's the biggest new story in the history of man.
Speaker 1: There it is, and so catch it day on the
twenty seventh at ten pm. Thank you both so much.
It's been a real pleasure. And good luck and.
Speaker 4: You well, thank you, continue on.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Martin, you as well, all right,
you too.
Speaker 4: I've really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Excellent, thank you bright down all right, so we'll be
back tuesday, and thank you so much everyone, and remember
to keep your eyes to the sky.