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It allows me to basically put out an episode every

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Head on over to Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com,

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forward slash Support and do it there. Thank you. I

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want to welcome everyone back to the Pekaona Show so

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the first time. Mike Shelby, how you doing, Mike Hey?

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Speaker 2: Doing well?

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Speaker 1: Pete how are you doing well? Doing well first time

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on the show. I always ask everybody to run down

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whatever they're you know, whatever they want to share from

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their background.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sure, yeah. I was an all sorts of intelligence analyst.

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I dropped out of college in two thousand and three

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and listened in two thousand and four and spent a

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few years in Iraq in Afghanistan as a soldier, went

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back as a contractor, and then I got out of

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that world because I got tired of deploying, and you know,

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just I didn't like what I was doing. And then

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twenty sixteen yearlls around and I started seeing all these

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Trump supporters being attacked. I wasn't a Trump supporter at

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the time, but I just said, you know, this is

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not right that these these innocent people are being intact

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for their politics. And then I started looking into antief

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and I was like, hey, I actually really hate these bastards.

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And I said, look, I've spent my entire adult life

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at that point, or close to my entire adult life

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at that point, tracking down insurgents. And I said, this

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is this is a proto insurgency. And you know, twenty

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sixteen obviously into twenty twenty and so I just started

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tracking all these far left groups and I made a

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business out of it essentially.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you you basically go in, you gain access

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to like, you know, a bunch of us a few

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years ago used to get like during twenty twenty Indivisible,

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Indivisible emails, things like that. But you go even deeper.

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You you'll even listen in on some of their some

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of their conference calls. How do you how do you

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get in there to do that or is it just public?

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends which type of left wing group you're

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dealing with, a lot of that stuff does occur online.

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The far left, the revolutionary anarchist that does not happen

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online as much. The progressive groups do do a lot

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of things out in the open. So, yeah, groups like Indivisible,

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it is pretty easy. Actually, are just listening into one

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of their calls, their Thursday afternoon call. But the yeah,

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the Antifa types is they're a lot more closed off.

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They have a security culture, and it's for you know,

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for the most part, it's very difficult to track the

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internal communications of those groups.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's jump into this. I wanted Trump

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to win because I well, first of all, I want.

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I wanted the j sixers out. I also thought that

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it would buy us some time because I thought that

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if Kamala one, it would just be a continuation of

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Biden and it would just be more more of the

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same and more targeting of people who have views that

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are antithetical to the regime. And you know, one of

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the things though, that you know, you come to realize

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is that you know, we live in a system. We

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live within a system where you get to vote every

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two to four years. And if that happens, if Trump

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gets elected and he doesn't seek to just destroy these

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people in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about financially,

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I'm talking about, you know, making it being like okay,

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you can never have power again, taking even taking away

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their wealth. I'm sorry, you know, I mean this is

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how I've studied. All I need to do to study

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radical left groups is study the Spanish Civil War. And

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these people are well on their way to being like

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the anarchists and the communists that were dealt with there.

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So if Trump doesn't destroy these people, they will be back.

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So what are you seeing. I know you've said, you know,

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it's like, don't expect twenty twenty to be like it,

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where there's going to be this insane color revolution. And

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you said twenty twenty four, this or twenty twenty five,

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this summer twenty twenty five. Don't expect it to be

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like twenty twenty, but it could be. What are you

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seeing for the future.

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Speaker 2: Well, I always like to get consider a range of

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potential options. And maybe it's probably an edge case, but

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maybe there is a case where there is a unit

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or not a divider. We'll call that a potential course

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of action or a potential future. The chance is not

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very high, but it's not zero. I think the most

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likely outcome for well, let me back up for a second.

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I'm talking about future elections here. Right, we're looking ahead

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to twenty twenty eight, and Trump is I mean, maybe

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he'll be on the ticket. I don't know. I doubt it,

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but I'm extremely entertained by all the talk. And so

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the question is going into twenty twenty, are we going

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to have another twenty twenty or another what I think

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was a popular revolution? And so you know, I look

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at that and I say, all, if jd Vance loses

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or whoever the Republican is, and you get a Kamala

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Harris or an AOC or whoever. It really doesn't matter. Yeah,

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are all the the political persecutions coming roaring right back?

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Obviously they are. I think there's an edge case that

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that maybe there's a uniter, not a divider, that that

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runs as president, that maybe maybe they don't we don't

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have that. But one of the things you talked about

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is the the likelihood that we don't. That it's it's

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not just right wing figures that get j six or

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get unfairly prosecuted. It's it's like mainstream or mainstream conservatives.

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Because I do think there there is an aspect where

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they said, well, we've we had we had the first

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Trump administration and we got through that. I think they

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essentially sold the twenty twenty election, and this is their

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version of never again. We cannot we can never allow

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these people to come close to the White House ever again.

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And so you know, I think that pendulum swinging is

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someone's got to stop the pingdulum swinging. So at any rate,

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going into twenty twenty eight, I expect something like twenty

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twenty to be on the table. You have essentially a

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popular revolution that is coincided with the election I don't

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think it's going to be this year. I don't think

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it's going to be next year. I think they're setting

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up a general strike for twenty twenty eight. I think

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that's our betting man at this point. That is kind

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of the next high water mark, which is not to

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say that things won't get rough this summer. I think

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they probably will and into twenty twenty six. I think

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Democrats are likely to obviously take back the House, and

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we're going to see impeachment, We're going to see House investigations,

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and you know, when these people say that that accountability

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is coming, that they're going to go after Trump supporters

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and all the people who enabled the Trump administration, they're

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obviously serious. So it's extremely just as someone who studies

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low intensity conflict, it's extremely concerning what's about to happen.

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Speaker 1: So where we've been sold this narrative about USAID defunding

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so many of these groups? Where are these groups getting

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their funding from? Like? Where where does an indivisible get there?

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I'm only using them because they are something. They are

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a group that a lot of people may already know

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who they exist. Where are they getting their funding from?

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Where are these groups getting their funding from. Now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately I don't have receipts, but we know there

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are plenty of DNC backers who are funneling money into

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these protest groups. I think a lot of that stuff

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covers stuff on the expenses on the operational and organizing level,

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so logistics, websites, communications, Obviously, you have to have a staff,

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you have to pay a staff who's kind of the

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top of the pyramid kind of command and control for

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these things. But a lot of this stuff is actually

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I would I look at Indivisible, and I actually do

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think it's grassroots. It is volunteer active that are organizing

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at the local level. They're grabbing their friends, They're inviting

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people to meetings, and they say, look, we've got to

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build the people power. We have to build social power

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to stand up to the Trump administration. So, you know,

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like I said, I don't have receipts. I don't know

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exactly where they're getting their money from. There are plenty

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of left wing billionaires and financiers who are happy to

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spend a little pocket change to facilitate these groups. But

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you know, I look at the funding, and the funding

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is the least important part of these movements. The organizing

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is the most important part, and that is that's a problem.

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They have solved that they do not have a problem organizing.

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That's the hardest part.

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Speaker 1: Why is that it doesn't seem like the right wing

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can organize a church picnic. So what how come they

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can organize?

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Speaker 2: Well, they've just they've had a long standing practice. You know,

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I was reading through some you know, we call it

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human infrastructure. I was looking through some organizing documents going

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back to the sixties and seventies, and you read to

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that stuff that this is the same exact stuff they've

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been they're doing today, the anti Trump organizing. They've been

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doing this for decades. And if you want to go

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back to the first communist groups, go back to the

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Russian Revolution, and then the communist the establishment of the

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Common Turn and then communist politics in the United States

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starting in I think nineteen nineteen or so. They've just

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been doing it for one hundred years and we haven't.

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I think that's and then you can go back into

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the oh, the right wing rugged individualist, you know, we

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don't need a team. We're anti collective and pro individual

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and you know, I think maybe part of that just

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is a philosophy or a worldview that is not inherently collective.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask this to just go go off that

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subject for a second. I was talking about my buddy

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Greg Hood. He goes by James Kirkpatrick on Twitter and

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he said, he asked a question. We're looking at all

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these executive orders, We're looking at all these We're looking

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at these judges, these activist judges. I mean, they're not

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even activist judges. I mean, I just think that they're

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basically traders. I mean, I'm reminded. It seems like the

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McCarthy time, when you found the time of McCarthy, when

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you found out, Oh, this person literally answers to Moscow,

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where's Congress? He has Congress? Why is Congress not doing

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Why aren't they cementing anything? Why aren't they Executive orders

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can be turned over by the next president. All of

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this goes away in four years unless somehow it's put

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into law. I mean, and we know they'll ignore the

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law anyway, but at least, I mean, something something that

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the normy can look at and go, hey, you know

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what's going on. Where's Congress now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think part of it is some part of

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the Republican party's obviously been captured. They're part of the

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establishment elite. They're not part of the counter elite. Number one.

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Number two, since you brought up into visible, you know,

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one of the things they constantly say is we need

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mass mobilization protests because it enables us to do two things.

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Number One, it enables us to go after vulnerable Republicans.

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There are a lot of House and Senate seats where

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the left, the establishment left, the progressive left, is dumping

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in millions of dollars to one seat, and their message

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is pretty simple, if you go along with the Trump administration,

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you're going to lose your job in the next election.

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And I do think that scares Republicans. The second thing

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is a very similar effect. They say the Democrat politicians

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look at these mass mobilization protests and they know that

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they have the grassroots behind them, and that encourages them

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to take more extreme action. This is something that Senator

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Chris Murphy said last month, Democrat from Connecticut. He said,

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Democrat politicians have to take quote unquote exceptional tactics, and

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what he's talking about is being a lot more extreme

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and a lot more hardline against the Trump administration. And

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this is something that politicians cannot do on their own

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very well. But if they know they have their base

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behind them, they're far more likely to do that. I

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don't think a lot of these Republicans really feel like

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the bases behind them, at least I'm not seeing it,

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and so I do think they're I don't think discouraged

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is the right way. I'll say they're not sufficiently incentivized

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to go through and pass laws that will submit these

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changes rather than just having them roll back in three

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and a half years.

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Speaker 1: Well, if Republicans don't think their base, the base will

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be behind them, I mean considering that, like we said,

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the right can't organize, I mean, organizing on a street

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level is basically illegal for anyone left like Bernie Sanders.

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So I mean it's kind of it's easy to think

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that a left winger a left winger. I don't even

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know what to call these people anymore. Left and right

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doesn't even when everyone's in the same party. Left and

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right just goes out the window. But it seems like

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the left, or let's call them the left, they they

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know that their base will be behind them no matter what.

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They're not too worried about that group in the middle,

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the quote unquote undecided or independence as long as they

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have that strong base. But it seems like if you

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know that the right will not protest, if they do protest,

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you know, it's like, remember there was an anti war

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protest a couple of years ago in Washington, DC that

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was set up by libertarians and some conservatives, and they

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invited communist part communists to come with them and speak.

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If you're not going to at least gatekeep, if you're

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not going to at least be able to organize true

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protests any you may not even be able to do

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that because you may they may shut it down quick

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because you're right wing. I mean, really, if you're if

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you're a Republican politician, it really just seems like you're

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going through the motions and collect and waiting for that

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fifteen thousand dollars a month, you know, pension.

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Speaker 2: You know. I think another part of this is have

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you seen all these polls come out recently. There's a poll,

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a survey from the PRI I don't know whoever they are,

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that's found some like sixty percent of Americans say, quot unquote,

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Trump is a dictator whose power needs to be limited

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or before he destroys democracy or something like that. That

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was the question. They said, sixty percent of respond it's

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agreed with that. You go you go in and you

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look at the polling, the actual data there and the polls.

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The Paul itself is over a month old, and it

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was recently just published by Axios, I think yesterday, the

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day before. And my first question is why did they

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sit on this for a month? Well, obviously to coincide

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with the first hundred days. I think there is a

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concerted effort, and you can call it information warfare for

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not a syop, but I do think there's there's some

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there's an active strategic messaging campaign against Republicans to convince

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them that the majority of Americans believe Trump is a dictator,

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and I think that that dissuades them. I think that

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descendivises them from from working with the with the Trump

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administration to pass these policies, especially into law and Congress,

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and so I I think it's a lot more insidious

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than just Republicans are ineffective and the right can't organize.

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I think, you know, the right, I think has been

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pretty famously, as you've kind of said, been disintegrated as

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a as an organizing force or as a political social force.

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And so I until we can solve that problem, until

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we can fix our own messaging problem and be resistant

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to those kinds of psychological information operations you want to

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call it fifth gen warfare whatever, Until we can solve

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that problem, I think we're just going to have continue

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to have these really pretty astounding limitations put on put

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on us.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, we even see the trope that

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people that I know, people on my side of Twitter,

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are promoting that Trump is the reason why the Canadians

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elections went the way they did. It's like, and you

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could have the opinion that Trump influenced it, but when

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you look at the graph that showed that most of

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the people who were under who are like in the

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zoomer and late millennial age ranges, they voted for They

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voted basically, you know, we can't afford to buy a house,

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let's do something about the economy. And then the boomers

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and we don't even know what the insane amount of

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immigrants from the subcontinent vote there that they voted to

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defeat Trump. It's okay, So how do I mean if

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that's going to be if we're getting the message here that, oh,

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he's a dictator, and then we're getting the message at Oh,

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the reason why Canada went to the World Economic Forums,

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guy is because of Trump. I mean, if you can't

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win the if you can't win the narrative war, you're done.

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It's over.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is something that the Trump administration is learning

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this lesson the hard way. I think they had a

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really good opportunity to explain to the American people what

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they were about to do. I don't think the average

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American wants to be beholden to China. But I don't

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think the Trump administration did a very good job of

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making of stating their case, saying, we're going to do

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some things that are maybe unpopular for the short term,

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but your kids are going to thank us for maintaining

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our national sovereignty. And I haven't heard that. I mean

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maybe a handful of people. I think Treasury Secretary Scott

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Besson's done a good job of saying that to the

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CNBC crowd. But and granted I don't you know, I

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don't watch every Trump administration presser, but just as a

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of a luminous consumer of news, I have not heard

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the administration effectively make that case, and they should have.

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It goes back to the messaging war, which I think

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the Trump administration is losing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if this, if you're losing the messaging war,

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if there is a chance that they're going to lose

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the House in twenty twenty two, and if twenty twenty

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from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, I mean,

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if in twenty twenty six, why do I keep wanting

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to say I'm obsessed with the past. If twenty twenty

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six to twenty twenty eight is going to be just

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like twenty twenty sixteen to twenty twenty where Trump can't

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get anything done. And we'll talk about these judges in

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a second. What should we be on an individual level

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or a community level? What should we be doing?

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Speaker 2: Well, these groups like Indivisible, and you have to respect

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their hustle because they're you know, they're putting in the

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low millions of protesters and activists out in the streets

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for these national days of protests and action. I would

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just look at what they're doing. And one thing they

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tell their people is all all forms of power are local.

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You know, they say all politics is local. So until

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we're organizing at the community level. Like you know, if

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you want to win a state level race, you have

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to organize a bunch of communities that get involved in

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and go out and get out the vote and do

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all the things in a democracy. And so I really

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think it does come back to all forms of local power.

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If you want to change national level politics, that I

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don't think that can be done very well. It can

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be guided maybe through through what happens in DC, but

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if you want any kind of cultural staying power, that's

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going to happen at the local level. And so until

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we can figure out what local organizing looks like, I mean,

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I think we're just going to continually be surprised we

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win national level elections like twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four,

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pleasantly surprised, but then not at all surprised when we

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see the left reverse everything good that happened over the

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last four years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, people say, well, Portland is lost, San

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Francisco has lost, Seattle is lost. The left has it. Okay,

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they have it. They not only have it, but they

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have it at an activist level. When you look at it,

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it's like you can say, Okay, the most radical, the

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most radical one. I'm not even saying like the most

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radical rightist can go and you know, should or go

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take over a town. I'm talking about like maybe some

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strong right of center people be like, Okay, this is

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our town, this is what our town is going to

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look like. Is that is that something that is just

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not in the right winger because they're so or the

387
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person conservative, you know, right of center, let's call it,

388
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because most people are just classical and most people on

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the writer are just classical liberals or even liberals who

390
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think that the border should be closed. Do you think

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that that's just been bred out of them, that you

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that you want that? Do you think it's the whole

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thing of oh if you just if people just leave

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me alone, I'll just leave them alone, and not realizing

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that these these are not the kind of these these

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are the people who are not going to leave you

397
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alone to the point of death.

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Speaker 2: M Well, that's a good question. And I think everyone's

399
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seen what I would say is the conventional wisdom on this,

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which is we have jobs and we have kids, and

401
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we've got lives outside of politics, and the left is not.

402
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We see that on on online all the time. It's

403
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a fair explanation and a fair point. I think there's

404
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a Last night, I went to a meetup. It was

405
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the Young Republicans for My County, and there was a

406
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huge focus on politics. We talked about the huge focus

407
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on politics, and one of the things I brought up

408
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is it it's not just politics. We're actually dealing with

409
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three pillars here. You want to talk about power, It's

410
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not just political power, it's social power, and it's also

411
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economic power. And my County's Republican machine focuses on political power.

412
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They are not trying to build social cultural power. They're

413
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not trying to explicitly build economic power. And you look

414
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at the left with the way they've indoctrinated the core,

415
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taken over the corporations and hiring all these indoctrinated workers,

416
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and the marketing and the ad teams put constantly pushing

417
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these social messages. I think they have. The Left obviously

418
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does a great job of building social power and building

419
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and capturing economic power. Let's be honest. I don't think

420
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they build economic power themselves. I think they just capture it.

421
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And we on the right, I mean, I all my

422
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and listen here, the Republican Party. I'm like I don't know.

423
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I don't go to their games, but like I'll watch

424
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them when they're on TV, like I'll cheer for them.

425
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It's not even really my I don't even I don't know.

426
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I vote Republican obviously, but it's not I'm not like

427
00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:09,640
excited about the Republican Party. And one of the reasons

428
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,960
why is because it's all politics and no one's out there.

429
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I think very few people are out there trying to

430
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build social and economic power. But if you want to

431
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build a power machine, it cannot just be political. It's

432
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got to be social and economic as well. I think

433
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that's the real change that needs to happen on the right.

434
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Speaker 1: And so many are caught up in ideological capture of

435
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you know, free trade and which basically when when you

436
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:39,319
tear it all the way down, it's just basically globalism.

437
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We have to have the borders open, or they buy

438
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into the trope that there's not enough people here to work.

439
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,759
Maybe there isn't, I don't know, or you know, the

440
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whole thing about free trade. If you're not for free trade,

441
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you're a communist, because the communists weren't for free trade,

442
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and every I mean, you can see that fancied out.

443
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You know, tariffs are tariffs are protectionists, and that's what

444
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you know. Isolationist countries do things like that. But yeah,

445
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I think the biggest problem is it seems to me,

446
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and correct me if I'm wrong on this, it seems

447
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to me like the left they're willing to come together

448
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in a big tent kind of way just to keep power,

449
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just so that power keeps flowing from their side. And

450
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whatever the right is is so fraction is so fractioned

451
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:44,519
off because is factional because of ideology, whether it be

452
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pro free markets, whether it be pro Israel, whether it

453
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be anti Islam, whether it be this that and everything.

454
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It just you have one group who's like, no, I'm

455
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not going to you know, how can we be America first?

456
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If you know, we let another country basically run our

457
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foreign policy or whatever. It just seems like if they

458
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concentrated on power and lost the idea, the ideological baggage

459
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,720
with it, that that would just be the biggest, the

460
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biggest start, because it seems like the left doesn't have that,

461
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does it. The left is willing to become whatever it

462
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has to become in order to keep power.

463
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's some truth to that I see

464
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a lot of infighting on the left though, the Bernie

465
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and the AOC crowd versus the Hakim Jefferies and Nancy

466
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Pelosi wing, the establishment versus the the Democratic socialist wing,

467
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the progressive versus the Democrat socialist, the left liberal split

468
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on the within the Democratic Party. I don't know. I

469
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,400
look at DSA Democratic Social South America and you know,

470
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they're talking about abandoning, abandoning the Democrat Party. So I

471
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don't know. I think there's just a lot of infighting

472
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on the left and maybe it's maybe it's not seen.

473
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I like, I read these guys. I'll watch videos all

474
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day about these guys. I maybe they do vote in lockstep,

475
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but they're getting tired of it. I'll tell you that

476
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,480
the left liberal alliance within the Democratic Party I think

477
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:27,359
is shaky, and uh, you know, well, we'll see Democratic

478
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,000
Social South America dsay they're running ten candidates not as

479
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,599
Democrats in the in the midterms, they're running ten House

480
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,720
h House candidates not as Democrats but as independents. So

481
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,279
I maybe maybe there is somewhat of a party split

482
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:41,640
coming up.

483
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, But does that make them more dangerous

484
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,160
if they feel like a coalition if they feel like

485
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,240
some of their power and some of their numbers could

486
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:57,240
be falling away, or they have to push it, they

487
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,319
have to push people out because they're just two far

488
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,640
to the left. Say the DSA is can be insane

489
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,480
with some of the some of the I mean, I

490
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,960
think Jackobt Magazine, I mean, come on, does that make

491
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,559
them more dangerous? Does that make them want it more?

492
00:30:16,319 --> 00:30:19,359
Because you know they see that there's something that is

493
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,440
falling away at that point.

494
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: I think what they have realized is that DSA will

495
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:27,599
never be a national level party unless they're a local

496
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:32,519
party first. And so they there's been a lot of

497
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,079
discussion and maybe debate within the various DSA factions of

498
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,640
the caucuses, the various caucuses of DSA, and they're talking

499
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,039
about abandoning electoral politics at the national level and trying

500
00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,480
to go all in and summit a foothold build a

501
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,559
strategic base at the local level. And you know, it's

502
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,359
maybe they're a handful of other kind of far left

503
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,440
parties like the Party for Socialism and Liberation that they're

504
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:06,000
also compete with, But I I think we probably have

505
00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:11,119
been towards this. I think the end if you want

506
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:14,359
to look at this as like a tournament bracket. I

507
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,759
think we're gonna end up in the championship between the

508
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:19,319
populist left and the populist right in this country. I

509
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:22,079
don't know when. I almost certainly be within my lifetime,

510
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:25,160
if it could be in the next four years. So

511
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,000
I think at some point, I mean, you look at

512
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,759
all the Yeah, they're young progressives, but you look at

513
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:32,720
the Democrat Party and there's old a lot like the

514
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:35,400
Republican Party, they're old, and so the question is who

515
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,559
are they replaced with? And Hakeem Jefferies is he's not

516
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,559
a far left guy, he's a progressive. He's an establishment

517
00:31:42,599 --> 00:31:49,799
elite type of guy. And I think what will probably

518
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:54,960
happen is you get these parochial type groups on the

519
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,480
left and they hold political power to local level, and

520
00:31:57,519 --> 00:31:59,599
they use that as a strategic base, and you know,

521
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,200
maybe they take over a region of a state, and

522
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,480
maybe they take over a state eventually. I don't know.

523
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:09,359
I I guess it defines how how how you define

524
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,319
danger dangerous?

525
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, one of the things that you you know,

526
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,759
you do talk about is it seems like the right

527
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:26,680
is thinking that these groups are going to go hot,

528
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,279
Like it's almost like they want them to go hot,

529
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,480
which is something you don't want. I mean, look at

530
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:37,519
what twenty twenty wrought. And but that is something that

531
00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:41,279
you you have to think about, is is that if

532
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,039
it does go start going into a populist a direction,

533
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,440
you know, on both sides, if both sides are just

534
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:53,200
as populism and it's not radical enough for these people.

535
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,720
I mean we haven't even talked about you know, Antifa yet,

536
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:58,599
but if it's not radical enough for these people, what

537
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,319
could they possibly do? And you know, if DSA decides

538
00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:04,000
they want to go to the political up once to

539
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,480
go to political rep Okay, fine, that doesn't mean that

540
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,960
they're going there. That means they're probably going to want

541
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,519
to stay away from groups like that. But there are

542
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:16,519
going to be groups like I mean Antifa is they

543
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,160
take breaks. You know, they disappear for a while. They

544
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,880
never stop talking, but they disappear for a while and

545
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,559
you don't see them. But eventually, and especially if the

546
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,279
last you know, one hundred days have told anybody anything,

547
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,559
they're going to be back soon. So I mean, how

548
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:37,200
do we you know, how do you see that playing

549
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,519
out as far as when it comes to violence, because

550
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:46,279
I think that's what I think people are. I think

551
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,720
Republicans are fine with losing as long as they have

552
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:52,880
a seat at the table, as long as they're there,

553
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,440
as long as they're getting a paycheck. They can make

554
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,519
a living doing this, doing whatever it is that they do,

555
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:02,160
whether it be politics, whether it be commentary or whatever.

556
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:10,440
But it doesn't seem there are groups out there on

557
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,239
the left who are all about tearing this down. So

558
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,760
when do you see what what do you see to

559
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,559
be a catalyst where that could reintroduce itself.

560
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: Well, I look at these groups like Antifa and the

561
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:31,880
various affinity groups across the country. They're they're true revolutionaries.

562
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,280
They view themselves as revolutionaries. They're working towards revolution. You

563
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,400
look at the the establishment elite, especially within the mainstream Democrats,

564
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,159
and there there are they are reformers. They don't want

565
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,760
to topple the government, they want to take it over

566
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:49,480
and run the government. And then you get these far

567
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:53,440
left groups that are revolutionaries and they want to abolish

568
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:55,960
their anti government. They want to abolish the government. They

569
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,840
want to abolish police, abolished prison, prisons, abolish all forms

570
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,440
of of hierarchy. And so I look at that and

571
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,159
I say these two people are are natural bedfellows in

572
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,920
that they hate everything to the right of you know,

573
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,519
Bernie Sanders. But really they have competing interests on a

574
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:18,599
strategic level. The establishment elite want want to run the country,

575
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,719
They want control of government. The far left does not.

576
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,960
They they want to overturn everything and abolish the government.

577
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:28,800
So then you get into this situation where Antieva is

578
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,960
really nothing more than a cudgel that the establishment elite use.

579
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:36,599
They used it against a Trump administration, they use it

580
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:41,239
against right wing groups like right wing organizers, right wing

581
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,519
events and rallies that we saw from twenty sixteen through

582
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,360
you know, twenty twenty obviously, so the question is when

583
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,000
when will the establishment elite want to use their cudgel again?

584
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,400
And it's okay, obviously this year, you know, we look

585
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,599
at May looking through all the Mayday events that are

586
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:02,239
coming up. This is the first May Day that I

587
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,119
can recall in the past several years, probably since like

588
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,920
twenty twenty one, maybe was actually a risk of Antifa

589
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,760
black block forming like black block demonstrations. So I think

590
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,440
we are getting there. When when you look at Antifa,

591
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,519
one of the biggest reasons why they have been inactive.

592
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,199
It's like, you know, I've followed them since twenty sixteen,

593
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,840
and it's like in twenty twenty one, someone just flipped

594
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,440
a switch and they there were sporadic events. You know,

595
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,760
there's been like a couple of campaigns where they've been active,

596
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,400
but nothing sustained, nothing widespread. It's been extremely localized. It's

597
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:44,000
been extremely short term, and so in order for them

598
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:46,920
to operate, there has to be some level of support there,

599
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,199
and for the past few years there has not been support.

600
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,199
They're on election night in Seattle, there was a black

601
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:58,199
block demonstration and it ended when police made five arrests.

602
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,760
They went through and arrested five of these people because

603
00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:10,159
the black Block demonstrators were arrested for like graffiti vandalism,

604
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,119
and so they're just had the Mike Day, who is

605
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:17,039
the Portland Police Chief or Portland Police Bureau chief, said

606
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:20,280
in May twenty twenty four that they had essentially adopted

607
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:24,840
counterinsurgency tactics against the Rose City Antifa, all the various

608
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,519
ANTIFA groups and around Portland, and he said there was

609
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:34,960
a NASH there was an information sharing basically a center

610
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,239
for lessons learned, sharing their best practices for law enforcement

611
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,480
agencies across the country, and they have all adopted I

612
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:45,519
think kind of these more or less. You read what

613
00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:47,159
they're doing and it's like, hey, that kind of actually

614
00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:50,280
sounds like counter surgency to me. And so I think

615
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,239
there's just been this huge coordinated effort, and no one

616
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,360
has been kneeling for Black Lives Matter anymore, no one

617
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,679
has been kneeling for Palestine. City leaders are not giving

618
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,039
anyone room to riot. I just think the underlying conditions

619
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:07,320
for Antifa direct action have not been there, and they've

620
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,119
and that's one reason, one reason why we haven't seen them,

621
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,280
with all the talk about Trump's a dictator and we

622
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,280
have to do more, and we've got to escalate, and

623
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:18,360
you know, protests don't work. Now we have to move

624
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,480
to the direct action. Now we're getting into the period

625
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:26,039
where I think I think some of these Antifa groups

626
00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:29,960
could actually start to reorganize and and be let off

627
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,599
the leash again. I think, obviously we'll see it for

628
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,039
we'll see it for May Day and then uh I

629
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:38,840
through the summer. I don't see why we wouldn't see it.

630
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:46,199
Speaker 1: So when you bring up like Trump basically arresting judges

631
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,280
or you just basically kicking judges off the bench. You

632
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,920
will see some people you know on the right be like,

633
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,199
you know, you'll I'll tell them, Okay, he does that.

634
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,079
These great that we're talking about, and you know, all

635
00:39:02,119 --> 00:39:06,480
these groups, that's an activation but that's an activation switch

636
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:10,519
for them there. Whoever is informing them is going to

637
00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:14,239
use that as an activation switch. And people are like, yeah,

638
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,239
that's where we have to get to that, that's that's

639
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,719
you know, put a little nick Land accelerationism in there

640
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,679
and be like, yeah, that's that's what we need. Do

641
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,639
you think that that's why Trump isn't really moving forward

642
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:31,119
in enmass to try to get rid of these these judges.

643
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:33,320
I mean, these the judges are insane. I mean, if

644
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,159
it's true that thirty to forty percent of the judges

645
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:39,239
in the DC Court in the DC District were born

646
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,159
in another country, I mean we're we're basically infiltrated. I mean,

647
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:46,480
we don't have a country. We don't have a country

648
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,800
at all at this point as far as I'm concerned.

649
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:50,719
You can't look at it and tell me that we

650
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,880
have a country, because we don't have a you know,

651
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,400
especially under this world order, you have to have a

652
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,480
Constitution in order to be considered really to be considered

653
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,320
part of the post war or order. And we don't

654
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,920
have a constitution anymore, and we don't have judges who

655
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,639
we are even born here. And not to mention, sure,

656
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,760
politicians that are in charge or the elites behind them

657
00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:17,599
may want people who weren't born in the United States

658
00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:21,599
to be to be judges, But what does that say

659
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:23,679
about the people who weren't born here who'd want to

660
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:29,039
be judges? So I mean, we're I mean, well, to

661
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:30,840
go back to the question, do you think that may

662
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,280
be one of the reasons why Trump isn't activating so

663
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,880
quickly on getting rid of some of these judges because

664
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,239
he knows that they're the potential for street violence is there,

665
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,079
and he's not willing to crack down on it like

666
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:47,159
he wasn't willing to crack down on it in twenty twenty.

667
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: Well, I think a large part of that has to

668
00:40:52,719 --> 00:41:00,079
do with who is advising the president there. Earlier this

669
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:02,280
week there was an executive order. In one of the

670
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,880
sections in the executive order directed the Department of Justice,

671
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,800
so Attorney General Pambondi and Secretary of Defense Pete Hexf.

672
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:15,119
I think it gave them ninety days to identify forget

673
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:19,519
the exact term, it's something like excess military national security assets,

674
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:30,800
basically telling them identify with national Guard, active component, military whatever, personnel, equipment,

675
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,599
training opportunities, whatever to be that could be used for

676
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,000
domestic security. And that didn't get a lot of press.

677
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,159
The left wing has been covered in left wing media,

678
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,400
has been covern it a lot, and so there I

679
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,199
will just tell you. Their conclusion is that the President

680
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,480
is serious about invoking the Insurrection Act. And they see

681
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,599
this as Trump effectively telling the Attorney General in Department

682
00:41:56,599 --> 00:42:02,159
of Justice or DOJ and the DoD to identify personnel

683
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,159
or units or equipment or whatever, or or law enforcement

684
00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:08,440
training opportunities to get ready for this. That's how they're

685
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,480
taking it. President Trump has previously threatened to invoke the

686
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,960
Insurrection Act. This is not something that if he invokes

687
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,159
it this year, we're going to live under the Insurrection

688
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:22,039
Act for the rest of his term. I think this,

689
00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:26,440
I think it would be a trigger. I think it

690
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,679
would be it would greatly accelerate a domestic conflict. And

691
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,679
I'm not talking about like eighteen sixty one types civil war,

692
00:42:35,039 --> 00:42:39,280
but you know, popular revolution Euro Maydn Arab springs. You know,

693
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,559
whatever they're going to call the American Spring a color revolution.

694
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:49,000
Terrorism can't terrorism obviously, So I not just against the

695
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,360
federal government. I think against Trump's prominent Trump supporters as

696
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,119
they look at enablers. So I think the Trump administration

697
00:42:56,199 --> 00:43:04,199
is in a precarious situation where I think Trump's just

698
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,559
dealing with a popular revolution. I think this is something

699
00:43:06,559 --> 00:43:09,000
they're going to launch in twenty twenty eight. Obviously they

700
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,119
are going to be periods of acceleration, but I think

701
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:14,639
invoking invoking the Insurrection Act is going to make things worse,

702
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:15,280
not better.

703
00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: I mean, are we looking at like possible posse commentados?

704
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:26,960
I mean, what is that? What would that even look like?

705
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:31,920
I mean, are we looking at what's the It just

706
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:35,440
completely escapes my mind right now. The law that keeps

707
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,679
US troops off of off of American soil.

708
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Posse Commatatus Act basically yeah, yeah, yeah. The military

709
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,760
cannot Basically military has have to be in a supporting role.

710
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,039
It's called back this military assistance to civil disturbances. They

711
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:58,480
have to report to like a state governor or civilian leadership.

712
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:01,000
It cannot be military leadership. There will be martial law.

713
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's not like they weren't in charge

714
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,400
in the LA riots or I mean even even April

715
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,960
twenty first, nineteen ninety three a Waco, they were directing

716
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,760
everything there. But the Yeah yeah, so.

717
00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: The paper reality will differ from the from the ground reality. Sure. Yeah.

718
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: So how again for people who you know are just

719
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:34,519
living their lives, but who are openly you know, have

720
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:38,719
had Trump signs and they're in areas where it's kind

721
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,360
of mixed, where your your neighbor might have a Bernie

722
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,559
Sanders sign or you have no idea who I mean,

723
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:51,159
how does how would one think about they're personal? I

724
00:44:51,159 --> 00:44:54,400
mean I always say, you know, when it comes to organization,

725
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,320
you have to start personally. You get your own house

726
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,920
in order, and you figure out where where your neighbor's at.

727
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,719
Then you figure out where people in your town is

728
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,599
that and it has to work out from there. It

729
00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:08,559
has to. You know, you can't. It's hard to even

730
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:12,599
think about wanting to organize when your house is you know,

731
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:18,880
in shambles. So how would people even start to consider

732
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:26,239
preparing for what would to me if he was to

733
00:45:26,639 --> 00:45:29,440
if he was to invoke the insurrection, if he was

734
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:37,760
to we're looking at a greater escalator escalation of violence

735
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,920
than what we saw in twenty twenty. I think we're

736
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,440
looking more along the lines of what we saw in

737
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,400
Wisconsin and what was the name of the town with

738
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:57,119
just going right off, just with the Kyle Rittenhouse town Kenosha. Yeah,

739
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:01,440
I mean where you know CNN is reporting as everything's

740
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,599
burning in the background and going out is just you know,

741
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,400
we got some protests going on here. How do people

742
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,639
even start preparing for that?

743
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,559
Speaker 2: Well, when you look so, low intensity conflict is an

744
00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:18,639
umbrella term that covers everything from violent social movements on

745
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:25,599
the lower level up to terrorism campaigns, guerrilla warfare, insurgency,

746
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,599
popular revolutions or color revolutions, and so that's opposed to

747
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,639
high intensity conflict like World War two or Ukraine Russia.

748
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:38,559
We're not talking about tanks and bombers, but we're talking

749
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:41,679
about something above routine, peaceful competition. It's not just political

750
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,440
warfare between Democrats and Republicans. It is an actual form

751
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,800
of warfare, and it's kept beneath the threshold of conventional

752
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,320
war for lots of reasons. In low intensity conflict, we

753
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,800
have to remember that the we're talking about a very

754
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:03,519
small fraction overall, very small fraction actively engaging in low

755
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:08,000
intensity conflict. Typically when we look at them for the

756
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:14,559
past fifty seventy years, we're really looking at less than

757
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,119
one percent, almost always a fraction of one percent that's

758
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:22,400
actively engaged. And you say, well, we've got a country

759
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,719
of three hundred plus million people. You know, that's still

760
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,760
three million fighters. You know, that's a lot, and it is.

761
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,920
So that's the first thing I would look at is

762
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:34,960
what's my actual risk. Do I live in an area that,

763
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,039
as you say, maybe it's close politically, maybe there are

764
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:42,400
competing political activist groups, So that would be my first

765
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,280
consideration is what level of protests are you seeing in

766
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,639
your area? And you know, what is what's the potential

767
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,079
for more extreme elements, Like if you live near a

768
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:56,960
college campus with active communist groups, which are most college campuses,

769
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,880
then yeah, you are at a much higher risk of that,

770
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,320
you know. I think the average the average person probably

771
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,320
does not have a huge risk of like being targeted

772
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,119
by an by organized political violence, But coming out in

773
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,559
your car's keyed, where your your tires are popped, I

774
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:19,239
think that's far more likely than you know, you being

775
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,440
assassinated walking out your front door. So I those are

776
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,320
some of the things I would look at and listen.

777
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,199
It's hard to say where this thing is going, but

778
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,760
you know, the left, they do not want a conflict

779
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,800
to rise to the level of like actual armed conflict.

780
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,480
There's a reason, you know, Jeene Sharp wrote this book

781
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:41,800
back and then I wrote several editions of it. But

782
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,920
it goes back to like the at least the nineties,

783
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,559
maybe the seventies. It's called From Dictatorship to Democracy, and

784
00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:53,480
it is about taking down governments through predominantly nonviolent means,

785
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:58,960
So building social power, the use of civil disobedience, undermining

786
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,639
of a government's legit intimacy, capacity, and authority. Those are

787
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:05,239
the three pillars of a government. A government has to

788
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,239
be legitimate. If you're President Trump, you have to be

789
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:11,079
acutely aware of anything that you do that can undermine

790
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:14,159
your own legitimacy, unless Trump's just going off the deep end,

791
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:16,639
and then he doesn't have to care about it. The

792
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:22,159
second pillar's capacity, so or authority. Authority is means that

793
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:25,920
people follow your laws. And then finally capacity you have

794
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,440
to have the manpower and the resources. So this is

795
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,280
something that even if Trump wanted to invoke the Insurrection Act,

796
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,039
if he has defense leaders, if he has generals or

797
00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:40,159
colonels or duty personnel or doj whoever. He's got to

798
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:42,840
have the people to do this. If they refuse to

799
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,599
invoke the Insurrection Act, guess what, you don't have one.

800
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,440
So if you're the left, you have to start looking

801
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,559
for they're already looking at these ways. You have to

802
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:54,320
look for ways to undermine the legitimacy of the Trump

803
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,800
administration or the federal government, undermine the authority by not

804
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,960
following the laws and encouraging other people to quote un

805
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,400
be ungovernable, do not follow the laws and undermine that capacity.

806
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,239
Because a piece of paper is a piece of paper.

807
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,039
You've got to have the people and the money and

808
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:11,679
the resources to actually implement what you want to do.

809
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:15,079
And so I think that is by far the most

810
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:19,840
likely scenario if we do get into some revolutionary you know,

811
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,519
it's funny George Soros back in twenty twenty talked about

812
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:26,119
the United States being in a revolutionary environment. We're obviously

813
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:27,880
going to be in one again. I think we're in

814
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,000
the beginning of one again, and so that is what

815
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:35,559
I expect. I don't expect, you know, something on the

816
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:37,639
order of like eighteen sixty one. It's going to be

817
00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:41,239
a popular revolution. We know what they look like, we

818
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,639
know the hallmarks, we know all the things to look for.

819
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,280
So I think it's going to be predominantly non violent,

820
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,679
attacking those three pillars of the federal government with the

821
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:56,079
goal of not toppling the federal government per se, but

822
00:50:56,199 --> 00:50:58,559
forcing the Trump administration from office, just like we've seen

823
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:01,840
these color revolutions for presidents and dictators and whoever else

824
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:06,840
country's rulers out of office for I don't know there's

825
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,760
twenty different cases or something like that. I think that's

826
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:10,639
probably what we're looking at.

827
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: What have you heard about whether the judges to go

828
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,760
back to the judges? Is there anything in play to

829
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:28,079
basically deal with this, because the way I look at

830
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:33,960
it is you the regime wins. The regime has been

831
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,760
in power for the last hundred years, wins if these

832
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:41,760
judges aren't removed, because you just you've set it up

833
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:47,639
so that basically the the executive can't be an executive.

834
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,800
Everything has to run through I mean, who was it

835
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,519
who just some judge said that anyone you wanted to

836
00:51:56,639 --> 00:52:00,599
deport you had to have deportation orders on. Now which

837
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:06,239
basically makes which makes supporting. I remember I think jd

838
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,079
Vance said on the All End podcast he just mentioned

839
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:11,760
like ten million. So okay, if you're doing that, you're not.

840
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,960
It's going to take you twenty five years to support

841
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,159
you know, ten million people. So what does he do

842
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,119
about these judges? Do you have you heard anything? What

843
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:24,960
are they expecting?

844
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 2: Well, our our view is that Trump has already pretty

845
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,800
much just been defined the courts, but very quietly hasn't

846
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,199
made a big deal out of it. He hasn't flaunted it.

847
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,000
But you know, the Supreme Court ruled that the Trump

848
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,840
administration has to quote unqot facilitate the return of this

849
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:46,599
a BREAKO Garcia, guy, what's the Trump administration done? Nothing?

850
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,360
So I think they do want to They obviously want

851
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,360
to force Trump into a constitutional crisis where Trump at

852
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,719
some point openly violates or takes some some sort of

853
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,280
punis action against a judge. And I think they pretty

854
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,000
much got their case with this Wisconsin, the county level

855
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,159
Circuit court judge. But I I look at that as

856
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:13,760
more of an accelerant than a trigger. I think if

857
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,559
you're the Trump administry, listen, I don't know, I'm kind

858
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:19,039
of getting outside my realm here with all this judicial stuff.

859
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:22,360
But I think the Trump administration, I think their their

860
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,599
current out look is, look, we just we continue to

861
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:29,440
do whatever we think we need to do, and we

862
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:33,079
let the Supreme Court rule on it. Where there may

863
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:35,400
be a snowball's chance in hell of the Supreme Court ruling,

864
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,840
you know that the Trump administration can do these things.

865
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,400
But there was just a court order against the Alien

866
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,199
Enemies Act that Trump can't cannot use the Alien Enemies

867
00:53:43,199 --> 00:53:47,719
Act to deport these people either. So I don't know.

868
00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:53,320
They're obviously trying to force him into some Trump's problem here.

869
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:59,159
The Trump's real problem is is legitimacy. And if he

870
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,760
defies the court, that is looked on by the average

871
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,599
American as an illegitimate action. And so the Trump administration's

872
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:08,679
challenges they have to convince the people that this is

873
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,760
a legitimate action. And if they can't do that, Trump's screwed.

874
00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: All right. So if Trump does, if he decides that

875
00:54:18,519 --> 00:54:21,119
he's going to do this the you know, legal way,

876
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,880
almost certainly the Left comes back into power at some point.

877
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,480
And we've already talked about this is what that's what

878
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,639
The first thing I mentioned is they get back into power,

879
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:39,519
they are going to be I don't think it's going

880
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:43,000
to be the oh, you know, we're going to be

881
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:47,719
putting old people in jail for for praying, you know,

882
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,320
at abortion clinics and everything. I mean, I think it'll

883
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,639
just that a lot of people will be targeted, whether

884
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,239
it would be the using the I R S, whether

885
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,119
it would be going into their background, whether be I

886
00:54:59,159 --> 00:55:02,920
mean anything. You know, they had that book three Felonies

887
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,400
a day from you know, twenty years ago. I mean

888
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,480
you could basically find something on anyone. I mean, how

889
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,400
much longer can that last? How much longer can the

890
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:19,519
left be allowed to get back in charge without I'm

891
00:55:19,639 --> 00:55:21,480
I'm of the opinion, and I know this is not

892
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,119
a When I say this, a lot of people just

893
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:28,280
can't fathom it because they just think that either we're

894
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,239
beyond it, or you know, we're too technologically advanced, or

895
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,000
is it I'm of the opinion that there's going to

896
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:41,280
be hot war one day on the on American soil,

897
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,199
and not something widespread like the whole South was from

898
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,000
you know, sixty one to sixty five. But the there's

899
00:55:49,039 --> 00:55:55,199
going to be pockets of like rifle people have rifles

900
00:55:55,599 --> 00:55:57,320
and they're going you know, they're going to have grenade

901
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:03,599
launchers and they're the this state, the regime is going

902
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:06,480
to back one group against is going to back one

903
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:11,840
group against another. It just doesn't seem like with the

904
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:17,400
way we're going, where the left gets elected imports ten

905
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,480
million illegals, fifteen million illegals, the right gets elected, they

906
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,840
deport one hundred thousand, it just doesn't seem like we

907
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,000
have a country. And it's I don't know that it's

908
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:31,360
going to be the right who's going to initiate violence,

909
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,280
but you know, some people on the quote unquote right

910
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,400
are going to say something or plan something or do

911
00:56:38,519 --> 00:56:41,719
something that's going to set off the left and the regime.

912
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:48,000
And I mean, I hope, I kind of hope it's

913
00:56:48,039 --> 00:56:50,760
in my lifetime so that that can get out of

914
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,320
the way, so that you know, the future can be

915
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,920
a little bit brighter, and you know, I'll deal with that.

916
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,719
And but it just seems like that's a foregone conclusion.

917
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,320
If these people regain power and keep or allowed to

918
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,280
keep regaining power, because all they do is expand it

919
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:09,239
once they get it.

920
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,119
Speaker 2: Well I think it is unsustainable. Frankly, I think if

921
00:57:14,159 --> 00:57:17,320
you're it. And again we're on the left. It's not

922
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,239
a monolith. We're really talking about kind of the mainstream

923
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,639
establishment left, and then we're talking about the revolutionary far left.

924
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,039
And if you're the establishment left, I think you you

925
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:32,760
have to take back control without killing the host. And

926
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,239
the problem is if things get if we do get

927
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,039
into a domestic conflict, then you've got to worry about

928
00:57:39,559 --> 00:57:43,039
international investors. You got to worry about treasuries, treasury sell offs,

929
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,519
failed bond auctions, because nobody's buying treasuries. Who in the

930
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,400
world is going to buy a thirty year treasury bond

931
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:52,199
when you're on the verge of a civil war or

932
00:57:52,239 --> 00:57:54,760
you know, or you could be in a you could

933
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,400
be locked into long term conflict. And then we've got

934
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,039
to worry about well, I say worry, you know, and

935
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:01,960
then the government's going to be worried about how how

936
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,039
do you fund itself? If if industry and the economy

937
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:10,199
is diminished or in some cases shut down, your tax

938
00:58:10,239 --> 00:58:13,320
revenues disappear, Well, what are you gonna do. Historically government's

939
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,480
print money and so and now you've got to worry

940
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,599
about inflation. You got to worry about dollars and so

941
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,880
I just I'm not very optimistic. I try to be realistic,

942
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,880
but I'm not very optimistic about the future. And a

943
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,840
lot of my what I say realistic is informed by history,

944
00:58:33,039 --> 00:58:36,199
and history is just not that optimistic regarding where the

945
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,400
United States is in this cycle and probably what we're

946
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,000
going to live through. This is a we're kind of

947
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,239
talking about worst case scenario, and there's you know, lots

948
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:46,880
of people talk about black Swans. I don't know what

949
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,960
a white Swan would be. Maybe we have a white Swan.

950
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,199
I don't know. I doubt it, but I agree with you.

951
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,800
I think we're headed to a bad place. And it's

952
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,400
not just going to be bad politically and socially, it's

953
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,440
going to be bad economically and bad financially and monetarily.

954
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:04,440
We're you know, if you listen to Ray Dalio, he

955
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,000
talks about short term debt cycles and long term debt cycles,

956
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,239
and we're at the long term debt cycle, at the

957
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,400
end of a long term debt cycle. I think there's

958
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,199
a case to be made that we are at the

959
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,440
end of imperial history, or we're at the end of

960
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,360
an imperial cycle. The American Empire is, and then we're

961
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,440
probably you know, you look at the that the average

962
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:28,760
age of a currency as the world reserve currency. We're

963
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,280
nearing the end of that age of the dollar being

964
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,199
the world reserve There's no competitor on the horizon right now.

965
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,559
But you know this, this is not sustainable. I think

966
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:39,320
in the international investors are starting to look at this.

967
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:41,079
So my whole point is this is not just gonna

968
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:43,440
be a domestic conflict. This is like house a card's

969
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,800
coming down scenario. Because nothing in our culture is sustainable

970
00:59:47,239 --> 00:59:53,800
right now. And so yeah, I agree, I think we

971
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,280
probably will. I mean, then we got to solve the

972
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,880
problem of Medicare and medicaid. And that's not a twenty

973
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,159
thirties problem. That's a twenty two whist problem. That's going

974
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:04,159
to be a huge political driver in the twenty twenty

975
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:09,159
eight election. It may be the only maybe the primary

976
01:00:09,559 --> 01:00:13,920
for boomers may be the primary primary driver of electoral turnout.

977
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:15,840
Who are you voting for? The guy that's going to save,

978
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:20,079
save medicarecil security, the guy that's going to kill which

979
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:22,519
is all which is I'm saying all this to say,

980
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,360
it's going to get real messy. It's already complex, it's

981
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,400
even going to get even more complex from here, and

982
01:00:27,559 --> 01:00:29,639
I do think we're probably headed towards the domestic conflict

983
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:30,599
by the end of the decade.

984
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if people are voting on just basically voting

985
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,000
their wallet, which is a lot of what's just happened

986
01:00:42,039 --> 01:00:47,320
in the last especially since the seventies, well then yeah,

987
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,880
all the social all those issues go out the window,

988
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,559
and you know, we don't know where we're going.

989
01:00:55,679 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: And.

990
01:00:57,719 --> 01:01:03,079
Speaker 1: There is really no found foundation, no moral foundation. Everything

991
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:07,360
would just be basically would be based off of what

992
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,599
what the government can pay for and what you can afford.

993
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:13,639
And that really does open up the open up the

994
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:22,559
possibility that more socialistically financialized kind of you know, if

995
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:25,519
m MT, if m MT gets in there, I mean,

996
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:29,119
we're that's that's the way you solve those you solve

997
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:32,840
those problems about oh, if there's a domestic conflict, how

998
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,760
do you pay people? Well, you got m MT, and

999
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,159
you know at that point you're basically telling you know,

1000
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,199
how how worried are you about your about your bond rating?

1001
01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:47,639
You can just keep printing your It's sort of it

1002
01:01:47,639 --> 01:01:51,599
would flip the whole philosophy of how finance works and

1003
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:55,239
the mechanisms of how finance works basically destroys Wall Street.

1004
01:01:56,639 --> 01:02:00,840
Wall Street is kind of irrelevant if that, if that

1005
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,880
kind of thing happens, even with it's like a CBDC,

1006
01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:10,280
because they're not I mean, this is I don't think

1007
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,519
it's going to happen. Is as uh quickly as some

1008
01:02:14,519 --> 01:02:17,360
people thought it was going to. I think Trump is

1009
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,079
probably the like the delay, he just hit a delay.

1010
01:02:21,639 --> 01:02:26,239
But the the way it's going, especially if these people,

1011
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:30,599
you know, if the regime gets back in charge, especially

1012
01:02:30,599 --> 01:02:33,679
with some of the things that like the tech billionaires

1013
01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:36,719
were really worried about why they went over to Trump,

1014
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,400
which was mostly by what some of the some of

1015
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,079
the things coming out of the Kamala camp about you know,

1016
01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:46,960
taxing unrealized capital gains and things like that. I mean,

1017
01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:50,559
we're just down, We're down a road where it's like,

1018
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,679
you know, really people need to start thinking about growing

1019
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:54,280
their own food.

1020
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to be as self sufficient as possible.

1021
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:04,239
And that's not even to we haven't even talked about

1022
01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:07,239
global trade. And then you know, maybe then probably then

1023
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,239
to globalism and you know, by do we go to

1024
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,360
war with China, Japan and the Philippines seem to think

1025
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,480
we will, And maybe by the end of the decade,

1026
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,000
we get twenty percent of our imports from trying to

1027
01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:21,719
roughly forty percent from the Endo Pacific, another twenty percent

1028
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,480
from Europe. What happens when that breaks down? I mean,

1029
01:03:24,519 --> 01:03:27,159
we're talking about not having the things we need to

1030
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:30,280
maintain a civilization. So I think we will go backwards

1031
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:35,920
for a while. Yeah, let me just say this one

1032
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,360
other thing too. One of the real problems of twenty twenty,

1033
01:03:40,639 --> 01:03:43,320
those riots in the protests would not have been as

1034
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,079
big if we didn't have a recession and we didn't

1035
01:03:46,119 --> 01:03:49,559
have the COVID lockdowns that put people out of work,

1036
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:51,760
and all of a sudden, you don't go to work

1037
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,920
Wednesday morning, you don't have class Wednesday morning because you're

1038
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,599
doing online or whatever. Your college is closed, and you

1039
01:03:58,599 --> 01:04:01,199
have stimulus money, you got walking on money. Of course

1040
01:04:01,199 --> 01:04:02,880
you're going to go out and write all Tuesday night.

1041
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,599
If we do have a if we have a domestic

1042
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:10,079
conflict that actually puts a lot of people out of work,

1043
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,519
that's going to be a lot of people resorting to

1044
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,800
criminal behavior as well. And I hate to be like

1045
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,039
a doomer, and I try to be even keel and

1046
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:23,000
just recognize the worst case scenarios rarely the most likely,

1047
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,639
but you know, I think this could get very ugly,

1048
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:33,840
very quick. So all that's to say, you know, high

1049
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:39,280
youth unemployment is a universal warning indicator for civil unrest.

1050
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,519
And so if we do have a period where maybe

1051
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:45,239
AI and robots maybe that do that does eventually lead

1052
01:04:45,239 --> 01:04:49,639
to like forty percent job loss. I'm talking about like

1053
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,599
neo Luddite movements and lots of young people with nothing

1054
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:56,159
to do, and they realize they don't have a future,

1055
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:57,800
or they realize their future is not going to be

1056
01:04:58,039 --> 01:04:59,760
what they wanted it to be. And what are these

1057
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,519
young people do? So I just you know, I people

1058
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:06,960
talk about these industrial revolutions, they always generate internal conflict,

1059
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:09,880
and so yeah, maybe what is this the fourth and

1060
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,599
industrial revolution we're in now or something like that, And

1061
01:05:12,599 --> 01:05:14,239
then you got the fourth Turning and all these other

1062
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:17,679
kind of long term indicators, and I think I don't

1063
01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:21,199
see a reason why they're not all ending at roughly

1064
01:05:21,239 --> 01:05:23,519
the same time or overlapping at roughly the same time

1065
01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:28,480
like this in the next decade. Yeah.

1066
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think people think one of the biggest problems

1067
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,920
that we have is that basically because of the civic

1068
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:45,079
nationalist religion. We think that you elect the right person

1069
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,559
and they can fix everything. And really the only way

1070
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:51,960
that yeah, and I hate to say it, the only

1071
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,440
way that you even attempt to start fixing something in

1072
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,800
this country is if you get elected left wing or

1073
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:02,639
right wing and you basically become a dictator and start

1074
01:06:02,679 --> 01:06:06,199
tearing things down. I mean, it just doesn't seem like

1075
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,519
there's like change. And I'm talking about change that you

1076
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:12,960
may like or you may out. I was saying all

1077
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,599
throughout last year. I think left wing or right left

1078
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:22,559
or right wing authoritarianism is in our future. And I

1079
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:26,159
know which one I prefer, but I'm prepared for both.

1080
01:06:27,079 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, life just sucks under authoritarism because you

1081
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,400
get all these you get all these controls, and they

1082
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,960
more often than not, they destroy the economy. They may

1083
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,360
fix some social issues, maybe they paper over. Sometimes they

1084
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,559
make social issues even worse. But life is not good

1085
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:49,239
under authoritarianism. There was a book that came out in

1086
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:53,400
I like probably twenty seventeen, I think, called How Democracies Die?

1087
01:06:53,519 --> 01:06:56,599
Have you heard of that book? Yeah, it's a good book,

1088
01:06:56,719 --> 01:06:59,400
Like yeah, Ziblat and Levinski, I you know, I read

1089
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,559
it with an open mind I actually thought it was

1090
01:07:01,559 --> 01:07:04,320
a really good book. These are two lefty professors and

1091
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,639
they they wrote a book about how democratic systems end

1092
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,400
in authoritarianism. It was actually a really good book. But

1093
01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:18,079
they talked about all these cases where you have these

1094
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:22,599
right wing authoritarians rise up and take control of the

1095
01:07:22,639 --> 01:07:25,239
country and become dictators. And I just thought, man, that's

1096
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,000
that's so weird. Why, you know what, for no reason

1097
01:07:28,039 --> 01:07:29,760
at all, you know, why, why would they do that?

1098
01:07:30,239 --> 01:07:33,559
And so I started reading. So I started, you know,

1099
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:37,719
reading about the history of all these what's the uh,

1100
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,199
what's the guy that said, now the rest of the

1101
01:07:39,199 --> 01:07:41,559
story Paul Harvey? Okay, now the rest of the story,

1102
01:07:41,639 --> 01:07:44,280
the rest of that book. I went. I started started

1103
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,239
going back through and reading the history of of what it's.

1104
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,199
It's it's a foot race between communists and you know,

1105
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,760
fascists or whatever you want to call them. And it's

1106
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,719
not like fascists just arise out of nothing. I think

1107
01:07:57,039 --> 01:08:00,719
fascism is a reactionary response to communism. If you go

1108
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,679
back and actually read history, it's like, well, what are

1109
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:06,119
they reacting to? They're reacting to communism. And so this

1110
01:08:06,239 --> 01:08:07,840
was not a case where you just have these right

1111
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,280
wing authoritarians say, you know what, it's Sunday morning, I'm

1112
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,280
gonna take this place over. It is we have to

1113
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,760
take power to stop the communists from taking power. That

1114
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,720
is something that these people who are so intellectually dishonest,

1115
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:22,960
they always talk about right wing authoritarians, and they never

1116
01:08:23,039 --> 01:08:26,560
talk about that being a response to left wing authoritarianism,

1117
01:08:27,039 --> 01:08:29,399
which is the history. We can the history of the

1118
01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:32,600
past one hundred plus years. So I agree, I think

1119
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,399
we are in a foot race towards that as well.

1120
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,720
And you know, with thirty seven trillion dollars and in

1121
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,199
national debt, we got two hundred trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.

1122
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,880
Lots of people are getting a haircut, lots of money

1123
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,800
is going to be printed in the future. We're on

1124
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,039
track for a conflict. This is not something that a

1125
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:54,439
country can just get over. I don't think without having it,

1126
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,560
without actually fighting it out for a future. Because what

1127
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,199
happens is you have these the vision of this country,

1128
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,640
and they're you have two visions and they're diametrically opposing.

1129
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,159
This is a zero sum game. If one side loose,

1130
01:09:05,239 --> 01:09:08,199
if one side wins, the other side will lose. And

1131
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:10,119
I just I look at the fracture of the elites.

1132
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:12,039
And this is something that Peter Turchen and put in

1133
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:15,399
Jack Goldstone, a lot of other people talk about a

1134
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,279
fracturing of elites, between the elites and counter elites, and

1135
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:22,119
I think that it has what has happened, and some

1136
01:09:22,199 --> 01:09:24,840
of that Jack Goldstone points out, it's just very fascinating.

1137
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,199
A lot of people think revolutions are bottom up. Okay,

1138
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:30,479
it's like peasants and pitchforks. Now what happens is you

1139
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,760
have a fracturing of the elites, and the elites decide

1140
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,319
to go to war, and you have the peasant and

1141
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,680
the merchant class in the middle class line up behind

1142
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,960
the side that they that they favor that is promising

1143
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:43,800
them the best vision of the future. I think that's

1144
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,720
where we're at, and that leads to state breakdown, civil war.

1145
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it always seems like the the elites side with

1146
01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:58,479
the quote unquote lower class to fight the middle, the

1147
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,439
high low versus the middle, and the middle is the

1148
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,960
ones and the middle are the ones that are actually

1149
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,479
the productive class, the ones that know how to run

1150
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,119
a water treatment plant and things like that. And then

1151
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:12,640
so if you get that, if you get that, and

1152
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:16,760
we've had that. We've had it without without too much violence,

1153
01:10:18,199 --> 01:10:21,840
but it started, and all that has to do is

1154
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,399
just go a little bit more more radical and you know,

1155
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:32,600
then you know infrastructure, you have infrastructure issues, which historically

1156
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:36,720
you've seen it. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, Mike, I'll let you

1157
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,520
go tell everybody where they can find your work, please.

1158
01:10:40,199 --> 01:10:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well thanks. I'm I'm pretty active on Twitter, slash

1159
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,560
x at Grayzone, intel gray with an A, and then

1160
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,680
I also write a substack and write sit reps on

1161
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,039
what's going on with the far left and what I'm

1162
01:10:52,079 --> 01:10:55,159
reading about in terms of like revolutions and civil wars

1163
01:10:55,159 --> 01:10:57,560
throughout history that I think we can learn from. And

1164
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:03,039
the substack is gray Zone Research dots abstack dot com.

1165
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:07,239
Speaker 1: Somebody will probably want to know, isn't there another outfit

1166
01:11:07,319 --> 01:11:10,840
called the gray Zone, the gray Zone? Are you affiliated

1167
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:11,439
with them?

1168
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? There is the Gray Zone, and I have zero

1169
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:19,479
affiliation with them. Yeah. I chose gray zone because it's

1170
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,119
the space between war and peace, it's the area of

1171
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:24,119
low intensity conflict. But now I have nothing to do

1172
01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:26,399
with the Gray Zone.

1173
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people are very happy to

1174
01:11:28,319 --> 01:11:32,319
hear that right now. Thank you very much, love to

1175
01:11:32,319 --> 01:11:35,159
have you on again in the future to continue, especially

1176
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:39,520
to get updates if things start getting you know, start progressing.

1177
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:40,479
Take care.

1178
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.