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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Master of the NEC podcast, the ultimate

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destination for anyone passionate about the electrical trade. Whether you're

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a season electrician, an eager apprentice, or just someone who

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wants to dive deep into the world of electrical work, you've.

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Speaker 2: Come to the right place. Join your host, Paul.

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Speaker 1: Abernavi, a true authority in the industry with over thirty

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eight years of trade experience, as he electrifies your mind

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within depth discussions, expertips, and valuable insights.

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Speaker 2: That will keep you ahead of the curve.

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Speaker 1: Each episode, Paul will illuminate the complexities of the trade,

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decode the national electrical code, and share the latest industry trends,

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all while empowering you to take your electrical career to

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the next level. So gear up, plug in, and get

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ready to supercharge your knowledge because with the Master of

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the NEEC podcast, the power is in your hands.

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Speaker 2: Now get ready. Here is your host, Paul Abernavi. Up.

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What up?

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Speaker 3: Everybody?

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Speaker 4: Welcome to another episode of Master the NEEC. My name

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is Paul Abernethy, your host. As always, thank you for

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joining me here on the actual podcast where you get

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to ask me anything you want. In today's topic, we

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are most certainly going to be talking about working space.

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And there is a bit of a discussion that's gone

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on social media about working clearance and if working clearance is,

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for example, required for a transformer, and so we're going

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to kind of look at that today and kind of

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lay that out there. And again I'm going to say

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up front, you may disagree with my position, and that

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is perfectly okay. You are perfectly allowed to disagree with

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the position that I may have on something. But all

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I ask is that when you disagree with something, that

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you actually understand the topic and that you take the

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time to really dig deep into it, because I'm going

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to talk a little bit more common sense approach to

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it than anything else. So first things, obviously, we're gonna

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be working out of the National Electrical Code. I'm in

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the twenty twenty three edition, although I will remind folks

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that the twenty twenty six edition is out. It is

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available UH for you to get in link now. As

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far as print version, that is not available yet, but

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the link version is available, so you're more than happy.

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Speaker 3: To check that out.

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Speaker 4: It is available, so if you want to get that,

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you can go check that out over on the UH link.

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Get link and you can then enjoy all of that. Okay,

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all right, so today's episode, let's talk working clearance one

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ten dot twenty six. Now what does one ten dot

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twenty six actually say to us? So, if you got

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your codebook, let's go to one ten dot twenty six

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now and I'll read it to paraphrase it for you

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and then we'll discuss it. All right, So one ten

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dot twenty six says spaces about electrical equipment. It says

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working space and access to and egress from working space

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shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to

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permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Now,

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in that charging statement right there, so far, it's not

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giving us any distances. That's where we got to go

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to one ten dot twenty six A for the working space.

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But with any equipment, you're gonna have manufacturers that give

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you space. It's necessary. For transformers, they're gonna have ventilation space.

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The instructions that you can get with this transformer is

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going to say how much clearance you have to have

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around the perimeter of the transformer. And of course we

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have Article four fifty as well to give us some

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guidance on that type of thing.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you have ventilation holes and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: So obviously with us, we have to have space around

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electrical equipment so that we can work on it and

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things like that, and we don't get into one ten

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dot twenty six A the working space until we're ready

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to move into that. And that is it's own rules

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that you have to be aware of. So let's kind

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of continue on and we'll see how we get into

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this next. It says open equipment doors shall not impede

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access to and egress.

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Speaker 3: From the working space.

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Speaker 4: It makes sense, so you can't have it so that

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you're in a room, for example, and you open the

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doors on the equipment and then all of a sudden,

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because those doors are open, they swing open. Now you're

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trapped and you can't get around those doors to get

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out of that room if necessary.

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Speaker 3: So that's what it's talking about.

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Speaker 4: So those doors can't impede your access or egress from

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the specific.

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Speaker 3: Area right that space. So there you go.

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Speaker 4: Now, it says access or egress. Access or egress is

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impeded if one or more simultaneously opened equipment doors restrict

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working space access to less than twenty four inches wide and.

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Speaker 3: Six and a half feet high.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So these cabinets, the doors, if they open out,

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if they impede the ability to get around and impede

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on your twenty four inches wide to get around it

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that type of thing, then.

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Speaker 3: That's going to be a problem. Okay.

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Speaker 4: So that's just your general statement in one ten dot

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twenty six. By the way, if you actually have Link,

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which is you know I do.

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Speaker 3: It's in my phone. It's actually on all of my devices,

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so I use it everywhere. There's also what's.

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Speaker 4: Called enhanced content, and it's kind of like commentary. Sometimes

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I can be very helpful if you read it. And

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so that's why I highly recommend Link. If you don't

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have it, it's it's not that much money to invest

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in it, but I do encourage you to get it.

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Speaker 3: All right, So let's get down into the first one.

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Speaker 4: So working space, all right, So this is the working

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space around the equipment. It says working space for equipment

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operating at at thousand vaults normal or less two ground.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and I'll remind you folks.

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Speaker 4: That when we talk about a thousand volts nominal or

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less to ground, remember that a one twenty two to

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forty volt panel.

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Speaker 3: One of the legs to ground is one twenty.

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Speaker 4: Phase to phase is two forty, but to either one

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of those legs to ground is one twenty. So obviously

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it's a thousand volts nominal or less. But also this

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is gonna apply to four eighty volt systems, maybe delta systems,

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or you go from the delta to the ground that

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you're gonna get four eighty Obviously to a weight to ground.

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All of this falls under the thousand volts nominal or

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less to ground. Okay, Now, this is the working space requirement,

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and it goes on to say and likely to require

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Now here's the key sticker here. When we start talking

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about transformers, and we're talking transformers that electricians would install,

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I'm not talking about utility transformers that the linemen install

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that's connected to high power line or whatnot.

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about that.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about the transformers, dry type transformers, all the

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stuff that we install in buildings as electricians.

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Speaker 3: That's what we're talking about.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, So it says and likely to require examination, adjustments, servicing,

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or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions in

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one ten dot twenty six, A one, A two, a three,

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and a four, or as required or permitted elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: In this code. So what are we saying here?

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Speaker 4: Okay, what we're saying is if the piece of electrical

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equipment that I'm working on is a thousand volts nominal

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or less to ground, and it's likely that I'm going

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to need to work in this equipment to examine it,

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adjustment services, or maintain it, then obviously this working space

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is going to be required, and that's going to send

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us down to the reference. For most of us, it's

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it's one, ten dot twenty six, A one, which is

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the depth of the working space. Then you got a

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two which is the width of the working space, and

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a three is the height of the working space, and

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then a four is for limited access. Okay, this might

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be a crawl space or above a suspended ceiling or

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something like that. Okay, So for us, let's talk transformers

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for a second. If you install a transformer properly and

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you follow all the requirements in Article four fifty, you've

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followed all the manufacturers requirements, you've got proper clearance around

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it for ventilation, you've done everything you're supposed to do.

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There is nothing in four point fifty that tells me

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that on any side of this transformer, much less a

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side where the lugs are in there the X one

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X two, X three XO and then H one, H two,

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H three.

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Speaker 3: That type of thing.

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Speaker 4: Once you make these terminations, and once you do that,

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obviously while you're originally installing it, then you're done. I mean,

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I shouldn't have to go in there again. There's no

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moving parts in a transformer. Now, at some point you

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may need to something's not working. You may need to

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check the voltage to make sure that something hasn't happened

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with the settings or the tap or something in the transformer. Well,

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the electrician's not going to open that thing up and

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check it at those lugs. Why do I need to

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do that. What I want to do is I want

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to check it at the secondary. Now, if it's coming

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from this panel, and it's feeding it from this transformer,

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and it's feeding a panel, then.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go to the lugs in the panel.

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Speaker 4: Right, they're directly being supplied by the secondary of this transformer,

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and I know what I should be getting as far

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as my voltage is right. So same for the primary side.

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Typically in four P. Fifty, we're gonna have to have

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a disconnect for the primary side of this transformer.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna have a disconnect.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be within sight or if it's remote,

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then you're gonna have a label on the transformer letting

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you know where this disconnect is located, right, so you

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could shut it down when that's necessary. So at the

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end of the day, there are people out there that

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would say, well.

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Speaker 3: I serve as transformers. No, you don't. You really don't.

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Speaker 4: You think you do, but you don't because there is

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no reason for you to get back in that transformer

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while it's energized.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So now if.

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Speaker 4: You want to get back in it and check torking

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or do something like that, why the hell would you

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do it while it's energized.

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Speaker 3: I don't see the point in that. Now, I'll be fair.

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Speaker 4: So let's say that you have some projects or some

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big projects that they are require annual torking in YadA, YadA, YadA.

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But maybe they determined that the system can't be shut

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down for whatever reason. I would say that's probably not recommended.

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But let's say it's a health care facility or whatever

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it may be, then they may have a protocol, but

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when they do that, you have to remember that they're

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also going to have a live work permit requirement in

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that type of thing. And can they requires certain working clearances, Yes,

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if they determine that it is likelihood that it needs

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to be examined, adjusted, service, or maintained while energize. The

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reality is that is not going to be the case.

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And you can argue differently all you want. You're blue

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in the face. You can say I'm arguing on the

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side of cautiousness.

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Speaker 3: I don't care. I have installed plenty of transformers.

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Speaker 4: In my day and I have not had a need

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to get back in those transformers. When I need to

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check voltage or check everything, I can do it at

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the secondary conductor side that terminate or on the primary

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side to make sure the voltage coming in is right,

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and then check the voltage that is coming out on

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the secondary. I don't need to do anything other than that. Okay,

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And you can say differently, but it's really not the

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case now. So for a transformer, there is no real

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need for me to examine it. There's no need for

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me to adjust anything right, There's no need for me

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to service it. There's no need for any matance, and

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it's on it. It's done, And if I do need

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to do it making it's on it, I don't need

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to do it while it's energized. Now again, we can

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sit here and argue semantics play. Devil's advocates say, well, Paul,

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I'd like to always err on the side. Well, you

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know what, you don't always have the luxury to have

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this type of working space on something like a transformer.

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Speaker 3: Depending on where they're located, you don't always get that luxury.

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Speaker 4: If you want to do that and you want to

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make sure it always has working clearance from the access

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where you would get to the lugs, then you do

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you boo, you do whatever you want. I am of

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the opinion and I have done enough transformers that I

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have never needed to get back in that transformer. And

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if I did, I shut the power down, lock it out,

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and then I work in the transformer, check the lugs,

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do all that.

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Speaker 3: Kind of stuff. That's it. No other need. Now people say, well,

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what about thermal imaging. You can do that. You do

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not need to remove the cover to do that.

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Speaker 4: So again, but at the end of the day, I

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tell people you do, you boo. Whatever you feel is

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necessary for you to do what you got.

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Speaker 3: To do, you do it.

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Speaker 4: My personal opinion is that I would not need to

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have working clearance for a transformer. That's just me right,

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you can, you can, I get it. Some of you

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are going to disagree, and again my haters are going

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to be hating on me.

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Speaker 3: I get it.

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Speaker 4: Is what it is now what we've had some people

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in the comments on some of the social media platforms

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will say, well, well that should go the same for

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the disconnect for an HVAC unit out.

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Speaker 3: Air conditioning unit. Not so fast.

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Speaker 4: So under the twenty twenty three National Megrical Code, under

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article four forty uh, they were very clear to add this,

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although I think it was always there because that is

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a location under one ten dot twenty six. That is

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the location to where typically the service technician before they

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go pulling anything loose inside of that air conditioning unit,

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the first thing they're gonna do is they're gonna go

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and they're gonna check to make sure they have the

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right voltage there, that they haven't lost a leg. Right,

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so it was two forty but they've lost one of

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the legs. It's only one twenty. So they're gonna go

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because the disconnect is easy to check.

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Speaker 3: You just pop it right off. Boom.

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Speaker 4: Okay, no sense in opening up the air conditioning unit

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outdoors when you can check voltage and all that basic

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stuff right there. So in order to take voltage readings

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and things like that, then obviously you're gonna do that

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while it's energized. Makes sense, right, So in that scenario.

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Speaker 3: It was very applicable. Okay.

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Speaker 4: Now, one of the things to hammer this home is

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that in four forty dot fourteen in the twenty twenty

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three edition of the National Electrical Code, they added one

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last sentence to full forty dot fourteen for location, that is,

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of the disconnecting means. They added one sentence to the end,

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and that said disconnecting means shall meet the working space

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requirements of one ten twenty six.

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Speaker 3: So right there, you've lost that entire argument.

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Speaker 4: When it comes to air conditioning disconnects, they have to

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have the working clearance. But again I believe they always

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had to have it because that is the logical place

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that you would take a reading for voltage.

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Speaker 3: Now that's exactly the same thing for the transformer.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to go to the primary disconnect, or if

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there's a panel in the site, I'm want to use

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the breaker that's in the panel as my disconnect.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go right to the panel. Of course,

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that panel.

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Speaker 4: We take reading and all the time, so we add breakers,

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we add circuits, we do all this kind of stuff, right,

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so we have to have the working clearance right there.

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So that isn't that's a given. But in the transformer

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it's unnecessary. But for everybody out there that says, well,

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the same thing applies to the AC unit disconnect, it

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does not. And in prior to the twenty twenty three

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it still was the most logical location for testing vaultage

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and making sure both legs are going to the equipment.

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All that type of that is where you're gonna do

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it before you start opening up equipment. At least that's

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what technicians are trained to do. Whether you do that

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or not and you go straight to opening up equipment,

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that's on you, but is not what I recommend. First

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thing I want to do is get there and make

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sure that Okay, I'm getting two hundred and forty volts

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to the disconnect. Okay, everything's good, I'm getting to forty

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and then I'm gonna go to the secondary and a transformer.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna take a reading at the secondary.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna make sure i'm getting out of that transformer

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what I'm supposed to get, and then i'm gonna say, Okay,

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transformer's fine. If I'm gonna do any maintenance on this transformer,

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retightening lugs or whatever you may have, then I'm going

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to shut it off. There's no reason for you to

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work on it while it's energized. There isn't no need

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at all. Okay, all right, Well, hopefully that was enough

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information to help you in this episode Master the NEC podcast.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you.

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Speaker 4: Subscribe and enjoin us every Wednesday morning at eight am

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Eastern time. And oh, by the way, we have also

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added a brand new community forum over on fasttracksystem dot com.

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So go to the website. You'll see it in the navigation.

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You'll see where it says community forum. Make sure you

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There's also a forum in there where you can make

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All kinds of great things over on the website, so

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check it out fastracksystem dot com. All right, all right, folks,

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00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,319
till next time, Stay safe, God Bless. We will catch

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00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,839
you on another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast

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00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,799
where you get to talk to me and ask me

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anything you want.

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Speaker 3: About the NEEC. Take care, God Bless.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning into another electrifying episode of the Master

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00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:34,519
THENEC podcast. We hope you're feeling more powered up and

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ready to tackle the electrical world with the knowledge and

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confidence you need to succeed. Remember, in the electrical grade,

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knowledge is power, and we're here to make sure you

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stay plugged into the latest insights, tips and code updates.

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If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave

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your success. Stay safe, stay smart, and keep mastering the trade.

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From all of us here at Electrical Code Academy, thank

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you for all your support, and we will see you

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on the next amazing Master of the NEC podcast episode.