Speaker 1: The Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Windows dot com
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Speaker 2: O'll it is the nineteenth day of August twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: allegedly according to that thing we call calendar. This is
Speaker 2: the O'Kelly effect. And you are probably hearing this via
Speaker 2: the podcast because not too many people here it live.
Speaker 2: And also I went to air later than I thought today,
Speaker 2: so either way, it is what it is. It's Wednesday, Wodnesday,
Speaker 2: middle of the week, and I'm very very happy to
Speaker 2: have once again with us Larry Hancock. Now Larry is
Speaker 2: the author of various books. Larry is well, you know
Speaker 2: what I described Larry online this week when I was
Speaker 2: asked about someone else and he had to be mentioned
Speaker 2: in the conversation. In my mind, somebody talked about Malcolm
Speaker 2: Blunt quickly, and I said, well, you know what that
Speaker 2: is somebody. I don't use the word expert very often,
Speaker 2: but when it comes to documents, Malcolm Blunt is the
Speaker 2: document expert in my mind, in the JFK case especially.
Speaker 2: And I said, if you were to create a super team, okay,
Speaker 2: and you wanted a document expert team, and you wanted
Speaker 2: to keep it compact. You get Malcolm, you get Larry Hancock,
Speaker 2: and you have your AB and C team cupboard, because
Speaker 2: anything else you can put together would be a D
Speaker 2: team at best. So that was one of the comments
Speaker 2: I made after I also mentioned Larry on a podcast
Speaker 2: where I was ranting about a bunch of other stuff,
Speaker 2: and it was brought up to me like, you know,
Speaker 2: who is actually somebody because you seem to not be
Speaker 2: speaking to some of the people in the JFK world
Speaker 2: very much, and maybe you're not talking to any of them,
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I still talk to Larry Hancock
Speaker 2: because he was in that world. I'm not sure how
Speaker 2: deep is in there now at this point because Larry
Speaker 2: works on a lot of things. Currently, he's working on,
Speaker 2: you know, the stuff to deal to do with the UAPs.
Speaker 2: You've heard about it on this show. He's authored books
Speaker 2: that have to do with the national security state and
Speaker 2: the behavior of it outside of the JFK case, but
Speaker 2: also inside the JFK case. One of the best pieces
Speaker 2: of work is one of his most recent, which was
Speaker 2: co authored with David Boylan or A. Bolin or Boylan.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'll always screw up your name Dave,
Speaker 2: but you're great. The thing is the Oswald Puzzle. It
Speaker 2: was recently updated and released, and I strongly advise, just
Speaker 2: like I advise on all of Larry's books, that you
Speaker 2: own a copy if you care about the facts in
Speaker 2: the case. I also talked about top ten books and
Speaker 2: top fifty books in the JFK case, and I stated
Speaker 2: that there aren't a top fifty list for me because
Speaker 2: I've got some blank spots. There are not fifty useful
Speaker 2: books on the case in existence that I know of.
Speaker 2: That's what I said online, And again I had to
Speaker 2: mention Larry, because Larry's in my top fifty for sure
Speaker 2: on all of his JFK books, and occupies a portion
Speaker 2: of my top ten. I've never formally put it out there,
Speaker 2: but that's where it sits. Anyways, all of that having
Speaker 2: been said, and hopefully I didn't put you to sleep,
Speaker 2: I want to get an update from you, Larry, on
Speaker 2: the goings on, if you will, in the actual JFK record,
Speaker 2: but also what you're doing lately. So first, how you doing.
Speaker 3: I'm doing fine, Chuck, although I tell you what if
Speaker 3: I know everybody's suffering from the heat wave, but we
Speaker 3: have had weeks now of one hundred and seven one
Speaker 3: hundred and eight degree temperature, and it's just it's wearing
Speaker 3: all of us down out here.
Speaker 2: So it might not just be me putting you to sleep.
Speaker 2: It could be the heat.
Speaker 3: We definitely could be the I think it's not just
Speaker 3: putting me asleep. I think it's like making me shorter.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, everything's kind of evaporating.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, not good, Larry, because I mean, I love you, man,
Speaker 2: but you're already short enough. Don't get any shorter, please.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I know I'll disappear. But so that's how
Speaker 3: things are. Things insider good, things outside not so much.
Speaker 2: I do love the one picture. I'm only six foot tall,
Speaker 2: but I looked very much taller next to Larry in
Speaker 2: a picture that I have from I think it was
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, where we're standing in the hallway at the conference,
Speaker 2: and it's it's very funny. There's a set of pictures
Speaker 2: me standing with Mikes, me standing with Carmine, and then
Speaker 2: me standing with you. These were pictures I absolutely wanted
Speaker 2: to have before I left Dallas, you know, more so
Speaker 2: than my picture is my own. Pictures of the grassy
Speaker 2: Knoll as such, I want to make sure I got
Speaker 2: pictured with some of the people, because you know, you
Speaker 2: and I have been doing this for over a decade.
Speaker 2: You know, fairly regularly we've had discus us. They're not
Speaker 2: always about JFK. You know, you can look back through
Speaker 2: the archives and find themselves people you the listeners, not Larry,
Speaker 2: and you can hear the various topics that we've covered.
Speaker 2: But I've been very grateful to uh, to have done
Speaker 2: the majority of the time that I've done this podcast
Speaker 2: with you as a regular to semi regular guest, and
Speaker 2: it's been it's been really great and highly educational. So anyways,
Speaker 2: let's get into what's happening now instead of the archive
Speaker 2: in the past and uh oh, we might have to
Speaker 2: get into some archives though, so put it in order.
Speaker 2: We had a pre pre recording conversation, which we usually
Speaker 2: don't do much, but this time we had one, and
Speaker 2: you had some great things to bring up and something
Speaker 2: that I'm not keeping up with. If you want to
Speaker 2: begin there, relating to the assassination Records Review Board, which
Speaker 2: I will be catching up on later, but I had
Speaker 2: not tracked in the past week. Uh you want to
Speaker 2: start there, sure, I.
Speaker 3: Want one kind before we go there, and we're talking
Speaker 3: about hi if really The picture that makes me feel
Speaker 3: shortest is from a.
Speaker 4: Lancer conference where I'm standing in between.
Speaker 3: John Newman and Malcolm Blunt, and John Newman is in
Speaker 3: his classic black ninja attire and Malcolm is in his
Speaker 3: British professor attire, and I'm just so short I barely
Speaker 3: show up in the picture.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: That may indeed be the same year that I was there,
Speaker 2: because I Malcolm. I don't know how many Lancers Malcolm
Speaker 2: and John were both at, but John was in that
Speaker 2: ninja attire and had lost his cell phone the year
Speaker 2: that I went. The first time I attended Lancer actually,
Speaker 2: and Malcolm was there. That's the only time I met
Speaker 2: Malcolm Blunt to my memory.
Speaker 4: So yeah, he didn't come to many. But so what's
Speaker 4: going on?
Speaker 3: I think one of the challenges these days for me,
Speaker 3: as you say, as you say, you know, I kind
Speaker 3: of touch many different bases, uh, and with with what's
Speaker 3: going on, just to try to stay in touch with
Speaker 3: what's happening in the congressional hearings and Luna's committee and
Speaker 3: there are other committees and that are covering some of
Speaker 3: these subjects there are at the present, there are three
Speaker 3: different places in the federal government that are dealing with
Speaker 3: us U A P releases. You know, that three different things,
Speaker 3: all of them unconnected, sometimes you know, touching the same information,
Speaker 3: sometimes not. Then there's you know, you've got the m
Speaker 3: l K thing, which testimony was taken, uh RFK thing
Speaker 3: may still be in the works. The word is that
Speaker 3: that that's not been abandoned JFK. You know, So just
Speaker 3: trying to keep apprized of what's going on and all
Speaker 3: those venues currently.
Speaker 4: Even in Washington, d C. You know, in terms of
Speaker 4: records releases and records.
Speaker 3: Findings is challenging, I want to and the good part
Speaker 3: of that is that a lot of this stuff is
Speaker 3: going in the record. It is it is going into
Speaker 3: the record of Luna's committee, at least when they when
Speaker 3: they do their wrap up and talk about their summary
Speaker 3: of findings, you're going to see comments of a lot
Speaker 3: about a lot of things that they looked at. Uh
Speaker 3: just had a conversation one of the fellows that you know,
Speaker 3: and I know you've talked about it on your show
Speaker 3: and we've talked about it, is this the gentleman who
Speaker 3: obtained the uh Billy saul SD's tapes of the conversation
Speaker 3: with Cliff Carter, where you know, Cliff Carter is talking
Speaker 3: about Johnson being dangerous and out of control.
Speaker 4: You know, he he's losing it.
Speaker 3: This is when Johnson is is back at out of
Speaker 3: the ranch, out of the office, and is certainly becoming paranoid.
Speaker 3: We know from his the biographer that was working with
Speaker 3: him at the time that he was thinking that everybody
Speaker 3: was out to get him, everybody was.
Speaker 4: Out to destroy his ranch, you know, and Cliff Carter
Speaker 4: is kind.
Speaker 3: Of going you know, given what Billy saw, given what
Speaker 3: you and I know about Johnson, you know, the number
Speaker 3: of people he's killed, you know, who knows what he
Speaker 3: might do.
Speaker 4: If he totally loses it.
Speaker 3: Those tapes are being handed off to the Commission, and
Speaker 3: of course, the whole I would I'm sorry, the Commission
Speaker 3: to Luna's committee. The whole point of that is that
Speaker 3: her committee was tasked with recovering materials. So the whole
Speaker 3: point is for them to go out and get people
Speaker 3: to hand over source material, you know, and fortunately in
Speaker 3: this case, he's decided it's worthwhile to hand over some
Speaker 3: of those and so that's kind of.
Speaker 4: A real step forward.
Speaker 3: It's you know, not that it solves the assassination, but
Speaker 3: things that have been talked about for decades, you know,
Speaker 3: that we have gossiped about, there's been rumors about, and
Speaker 3: finally to see it solidify after all these years is
Speaker 3: pretty fascinating.
Speaker 2: No, definitely, And the fact that those tapes are being
Speaker 2: turned overlook that that's kind of predictable considering that the
Speaker 2: grandson of Billy Celesties is very much pleased to work
Speaker 2: with the current administration and Luna's committee. Remember again, is
Speaker 2: there for the purposes exists for the purposes of oversight,
Speaker 2: but they are actually collecting some material. It's not an investigation.
Speaker 2: This is not a House select committee. This is not
Speaker 2: a Senate subcommittee you know, with a particular purpose and
Speaker 2: special empowerments, et cetera. It's still an oversight committee. People
Speaker 2: must remember now. It's very useful in that more things
Speaker 2: can be added to the public record through this, regardless
Speaker 2: of the commentary from these sometimes ignorance, sometimes confused, and
Speaker 2: sometimes over politicized parties that are involved. The overall and
Speaker 2: net gains here are going to be about adding to
Speaker 2: the public record previously unseen materials. In my opinion, What
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not an investigative committee. They're not going to
Speaker 3: vet those tapes. They're not going to investigate them. They're
Speaker 3: not going to you know, they will accumulate information. As
Speaker 3: a matter of fact, I gave him some contextual information
Speaker 3: from the era of the tapes, talking work with Billy Saul,
Speaker 3: providing affidavids and statements to lawyers, his lawyer in Texas
Speaker 3: affirming that he had those tapes and what was on
Speaker 3: them and that thing, and that will be part of
Speaker 3: the collection.
Speaker 4: So that it's not an investigation.
Speaker 3: Nobody is going to vet that to absolutely guarantee that
Speaker 3: those are real. It just becomes part of the history
Speaker 3: of the subject, which is which is what it was oversight.
Speaker 3: It's that literally, the thing is is there's stuff out
Speaker 3: there that, for whatever reason, was missed that we now
Speaker 3: know about. Give it to us and will enter it
Speaker 3: into the record, you know, But of course you've got
Speaker 3: to give it to them.
Speaker 4: If you don't give it to them, you can talk
Speaker 4: about it all day long and it doesn't count.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I was going to discuss
Speaker 3: that that's getting a lot of attention now is through
Speaker 3: the work of several people, the the actual recordings of
Speaker 3: the AARB internal conversations have been released. I mean, that's
Speaker 3: that's very important because we wondered for ages, you know,
Speaker 3: what what did they how did they look at the
Speaker 3: information they were collecting, because they weren't an investigation either, right,
Speaker 3: you know, they were just out there too again hunt
Speaker 3: for records that hadn't been collected, very similar task. But
Speaker 3: an interesting thing is, you know what did they think
Speaker 3: about the records they were getting And a lot of
Speaker 3: times we we kind of go, you know, they they.
Speaker 4: Got some really good stuff. We have to interpret it.
Speaker 4: You know, that wasn't their tasks. Their task was.
Speaker 2: One of the the.
Speaker 3: An example of that being they did investigate the rumors
Speaker 3: and gossips from Fledger Prouty about the you know, shutting
Speaker 3: down of military security for JFK in Dallas. You know,
Speaker 3: that was a conversation, that was a dialogue. They investigated
Speaker 3: that and they actually it's already been available in terms
Speaker 3: of what their investigation turned up, what they found their
Speaker 3: interview with him. But it's interesting now, you know, what
Speaker 3: did they say behind closed doors when they were discussing that.
Speaker 2: You in a way Larry, wouldn't you say it's comparable
Speaker 2: in some ways too, when we got a hold of
Speaker 2: the executive sessions of the Warren Commission and therefore could
Speaker 2: at least get a sense of the internal conversations that
Speaker 2: were occurring. Is that about right?
Speaker 4: Oh, it's absolutely we.
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty four, you would have thought that the
Speaker 3: Warrent commissioned and Commission members and commission staff were totally
Speaker 3: in agreement with each other. Right, this is hardcore conclusions.
Speaker 3: We all agree, there are no problems. We're all in
Speaker 3: the same, you know, until we got what you just described.
Speaker 3: You know, it was a shock to see a letter
Speaker 3: from a memo internal memo from one of the senior
Speaker 3: staff members to the senior staff are going, you know,
Speaker 3: all of the stuff that we're saying about Oswald and
Speaker 3: the rifle and as the shooter is bogus.
Speaker 4: We can't say this because people are going to pick
Speaker 4: holes in it.
Speaker 3: You know, It's like a fifteen page internal memo and
Speaker 3: the guy, you know, he was ignored and they put
Speaker 3: it all into the report. But you know, it gave
Speaker 3: us a whole new perspective on the work of the
Speaker 3: Warrant Commission. I think this will give us a new
Speaker 3: perspective on the work of the ARB to some extent,
Speaker 3: because what we've seen up to now is the product.
Speaker 3: We have not seen the process necessarily. And one of
Speaker 3: the things I'm seeing right off and some of the
Speaker 3: dialogue is the ARB really again, there weren't conspiracy researchers
Speaker 3: in the group. They didn't have the context that we have,
Speaker 3: kind of like the HCA. Yeah, although they all collect information,
Speaker 3: but they don't have the contest necessarily to process and
Speaker 3: challenge and go deeper with it.
Speaker 2: Although there's a minor exception there when it comes to
Speaker 2: Doug Horn, because he had different ideas and he has
Speaker 2: publicly presented his internal thoughts as he remembers them, etc.
Speaker 2: And many documents and has given us at least one
Speaker 2: perspective from behind the closed doors of the ARB. Regardless
Speaker 2: of what you think about his five volume set, it
Speaker 2: is extensive and it is pretty thorough in my opinion
Speaker 2: regarding a lot of the points of contention that Horn
Speaker 2: was involved indirectly, Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally agree.
Speaker 3: It's funny that each of these groups, if you go
Speaker 3: back to the Warren Commission, the Warren Commission really only
Speaker 3: had a couple of investigators right, and they ended up
Speaker 3: getting fired because they raised too many questions about Jack Ruby.
Speaker 3: The House Select Committee had gateon Fonsi, who got neutered
Speaker 3: internally and told, oh, we're not really conducting a criminal investigation,
Speaker 3: so stop that sting operation that you're putting together that
Speaker 3: would have disclosed who actually was in Dallas.
Speaker 2: Well change, and there's the change of the head administrator
Speaker 2: there regarding Richard Sprigg to begin with, before the work
Speaker 2: even really started to take place.
Speaker 3: As I'm saying with it's kind of interesting that each
Speaker 3: one of them, as with Doug, as with Dug Hord,
Speaker 3: each one of them had somebody essentially that was kind
Speaker 3: of rogue inside the operation, pushing them to do things
Speaker 3: that they didn't really want to do, you know, that
Speaker 3: weren't politically correct. So Doug's work and pushing the metal
Speaker 3: glen Quarries is awesome. It just it's just think what
Speaker 3: would happen if all of those groups had been composed
Speaker 3: of a dozen different Doug Horns or Gate and Fonzi's.
Speaker 4: Or you know, but they weren't or imagine actually lucky
Speaker 4: that they had.
Speaker 2: Won, right, Or imagine if the HSCA Medical Panel had
Speaker 2: more than one guy similar to Cyril wect on it
Speaker 2: because there were I think eight of them and he
Speaker 2: was just one and was not the head. Michael Bobdom
Speaker 2: was the head of the Medical you know commission, part
Speaker 2: part of the House Select Committee. Sorry I didn't state
Speaker 2: that very well, but I think you know what I'm
Speaker 2: getting at here. There there was occasionally someone in there
Speaker 2: who was pushing to the non official conclusion, if you will,
Speaker 2: And they did exist, as you know, to varying degrees
Speaker 2: of success regarding what it was they were able to
Speaker 2: preserve in the record. But now we're getting a look
Speaker 2: finally had an overview, if you will, not just from
Speaker 2: the one dissenter, not just you know, from the public
Speaker 2: statements made afterwards. I mean, Sarah Weck dissented right away
Speaker 2: publicly even about what was going on with the HSCA.
Speaker 2: But did he get a lot of traction with it.
Speaker 2: Not much, quite frankly. And it wasn't his fault. It's
Speaker 2: just that wasn't what people were taking in at the moment,
Speaker 2: was it, etc. You know. And there was a whole
Speaker 2: campaign for some years, even after the Warren Commission was released,
Speaker 2: in the media where representatives went out there and absolutely
Speaker 2: went on a mission to counter anything that contradicted the
Speaker 2: Warren Commission's conclusions on radio, on television, internationally even and
Speaker 2: you know it was Mark Lane versus whoever, whatever group
Speaker 2: they could put together that were pro commissioned, some of
Speaker 2: them former Commission members. And you know about this. I'm
Speaker 2: sure Larry, you're at least vaguely aware of the I mean,
Speaker 2: I studied this extensively, and some people don't take the
Speaker 2: time to know about it. But uh, you know, like
Speaker 2: Leebler out there, you know, Wesley Liebler, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: out there speaking about stuff and so on and so on, and.
Speaker 3: Leebler Leebeler is the fellow that I was talking about
Speaker 3: who wrote the memos saying if we can't put all
Speaker 3: of this in the report, it's bogus, we can't support it.
Speaker 4: And he was ignored.
Speaker 3: But so to kind of summer up what's going on,
Speaker 3: we're just in the midst of this happening, and and
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people may be frustrated, and
Speaker 3: they may think that all of this effort is it
Speaker 3: is not going to produce anything that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 3: There are lots of loose ends that can be wrapped up.
Speaker 3: For example, on the on the m l K side,
Speaker 3: uh we we still will we or will we not
Speaker 3: get the the internal records from the m LK work
Speaker 3: of the HSCA committee is still an open issue.
Speaker 4: We don't know that we will, we don't. We know
Speaker 4: that they've been asked for.
Speaker 3: I guess the interesting thing about this is that across
Speaker 3: this gamut of the investigations, there are a dozen fifteen
Speaker 3: or more big things that we've had questions about for
Speaker 3: decades that now have been requested by Luna.
Speaker 4: I mean, what you think of her.
Speaker 3: You know, official requests have been filed. You know letters
Speaker 3: have been filed. You have this, you need to turn
Speaker 3: it over.
Speaker 4: And that's it. That's progress in and of itself.
Speaker 3: So in trying to stay in touch with what's going
Speaker 3: on across the gamut, probably the hardest place at the
Speaker 3: moment is to find out find out what's going on
Speaker 3: with the UAPs, the UFOs as it were, Because you've
Speaker 3: got Luna's committee, you've got a congressionally charted government department
Speaker 3: that was created to do the work, and you've got
Speaker 3: the President's office that's releasing documents willy nilly on its
Speaker 3: own totally disconnected.
Speaker 4: From the other two sources.
Speaker 3: So to try to parse through all of that to
Speaker 3: determine if you're really getting anything new.
Speaker 4: Is an interesting thing. And what we're finding out is,
Speaker 4: I think to.
Speaker 3: Sum that up is everybody is perfectly willing to talk
Speaker 3: about what's happening overseas with you. You know, if you
Speaker 3: want to look at what is being released from the
Speaker 3: Anomalies Office, you see some fine reports of these unidentified
Speaker 3: objects in the golf on our golf, their golf, you know,
Speaker 3: off Ron off Emmon, But you don't see anything coming
Speaker 3: out of reports from military basis.
Speaker 4: In the US.
Speaker 3: And this is a fascinating thing because we know from
Speaker 3: even public reporting that there have been major incidents at
Speaker 3: Strike Command bases in Louisiana and Missouri, but those are
Speaker 3: not showing up and what's being reported out, So clearly
Speaker 3: there's a gap there. Somebody is withholding information. Why don't know,
Speaker 3: But I guess the good and bad of it is
Speaker 3: we've now reached a point where in most cases we
Speaker 3: can identify what we're not being shown. That doesn't answer
Speaker 3: the question, but at least we know what's being held back.
Speaker 3: So we get all the way back to Peter Dale
Speaker 3: Scott's reverse image. Right, don't look at what they're showing you,
Speaker 3: look at what they're not showing you for what's really important.
Speaker 2: Right, and hey, look before we run out of time.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Peter Dale Scott, you recently sent me a
Speaker 2: few things and I now have a collection of some
Speaker 2: really interesting videotapes and DVDs and DVD ROMs and you know,
Speaker 2: from my own collection and now joined by some things
Speaker 2: that Larry just voluntarily gave over to me, you know,
Speaker 2: which I am willing to offer to you know, re
Speaker 2: home to someone. How about that. I'll make an agreement
Speaker 2: to send them to somebody else if you want them
Speaker 2: and know what they are, so you know that's happening.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if you wouldn't mind talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: the well first, the presentation that's yours that's in there,
Speaker 2: because you know, there was a time before we had
Speaker 2: because you know now even the CDs and all this
Speaker 2: stuff are sort of antiquated, there was a time when
Speaker 2: we were all dealing with paper, and people that wanted
Speaker 2: to organize or publish a small thing might actually go
Speaker 2: to I don't know, a Kinko's or something and have
Speaker 2: their pages bound together into a book format, and you
Speaker 2: were one of those people. I have a Larry Hancock
Speaker 2: presentation now in my possession. I have a Dale Peter
Speaker 2: Dale Scott presentation now in my possession, and a few
Speaker 2: others which I'm willing to share with people. But could
Speaker 2: you tell me a little bit about what's in your
Speaker 2: presentation real quick, because yeah, you.
Speaker 4: Know, it's real history.
Speaker 3: If it's got a spiral binding on it, you know,
Speaker 3: for people that can remember those, it's like, wow, I
Speaker 3: can remember when I got Peter Dale's Scott's Deep Politics.
Speaker 3: And it's not a book, it's a collection just papers.
Speaker 3: And yeah, before before electronic media and before artificial intelligence,
Speaker 3: we just had limited intelligence we.
Speaker 4: Have and copy machines. But yeah, what I did, and
Speaker 4: this was.
Speaker 3: Back in an era where every year I would call
Speaker 3: it Debrah Conway and I'd say, deb you know, I've
Speaker 3: spent the last uh, you know, two years getting documents
Speaker 3: from NARA. Nothing was online Edrick Westam and in this case,
Speaker 3: I've put together all the documents are available on Richard
Speaker 3: case Neguel. I've done an analysis of it. It's very situational.
Speaker 3: You've got to look at what the man was saying
Speaker 3: at given times, what was going on with his life
Speaker 3: at given times? Make something out of it. There's no
Speaker 3: simple answer for it. And I think I went to
Speaker 3: her and what would you say? Probably about one hundred
Speaker 3: and twenty pages or so something like that, and it's like, well,
Speaker 3: dev do you want to offer this at the conference?
Speaker 3: You can do here, you go, just I'll present on it.
Speaker 3: You can offer it the conference, and there would happen.
Speaker 4: You know. And that's what I sent you, Chuck, And
Speaker 4: it doesn't exist anywhere else.
Speaker 3: I will guarantee you there's stuff in that collection about
Speaker 3: Miguel that is in nowhere else. It really isn't because
Speaker 3: a lot of it came from newspaper reports, a lot
Speaker 3: of it, you know. It just it's kind of unique
Speaker 3: to that extent, and the analysis is quite unique. But
Speaker 3: I wish that I had done the same thing. Actually,
Speaker 3: later on, I did the same thing with Chrisman and Beckham,
Speaker 3: names that are known from the Garrison investigation. And unfortunately,
Speaker 3: rather than just keeping it in paper, we put it
Speaker 3: on DVDs. And as it turns out, that's actually a
Speaker 3: mistake because paper will always be there. DVDs come and go,
Speaker 3: and you've got the Togael thing. But I can't give
Speaker 3: you the Chrismin and Beckham stuff because the DVDs went away.
Speaker 4: Along the way. I don't even have a working copy
Speaker 4: of one anymore.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot to be said when you're talking
Speaker 3: about original research and paper, right, And I actually.
Speaker 2: Do have a DVD of a the presentation that that
Speaker 2: goes along with that Richard case Miguel, you know, bound
Speaker 2: copy there. And again you know people talk about rare
Speaker 2: books and oh this was printed this way. These things
Speaker 2: were done by the dozens maybe you know at certain points,
Speaker 2: like if you were lucky, you know, somebody sank a
Speaker 2: lot of money into it actually to make a hundred
Speaker 2: of them. You know, guys like Ray Marcus did that
Speaker 2: where they made like one hundred or two hundred of
Speaker 2: their bound pieces and they were handbound. Okay, And there's
Speaker 2: some of my favorites. I bring up Ray Marcus all
Speaker 2: the time because the Bastard Bullet and a dendem b
Speaker 2: or both two pieces of essential reading in my head
Speaker 2: on the case and they were homemade books basically monographs
Speaker 2: if you will. You know that he produced himself. So
Speaker 2: I loved that about it. You know, this was somebody
Speaker 2: who not only took the time an effort to study
Speaker 2: the thing, collect the information, get the images together, but
Speaker 2: then bound them and mass produce them himself. That's how
Speaker 2: badly he wanted it out there.
Speaker 3: And well and then yeah, that brings up as an example, Chuck,
Speaker 3: when the first edition of Someone Would Have Talked was
Speaker 3: done exactly that way, and it was spiral bound. And
Speaker 3: the interesting thing is that at the back of it
Speaker 3: we put in the Noel Twyman's the transcript of Twyman's
Speaker 3: interview with Roy Hargraves, where Roy Hargraves talks about going
Speaker 3: to Dallas with Felipe Vidal, and you know, we put.
Speaker 4: That in the book.
Speaker 3: Well, then when we were ready to go to the
Speaker 3: hardcover of the book, I got back in touch with
Speaker 3: Noel Twyman and Noel says, you can't use that anymore.
Speaker 4: What why? Well, because.
Speaker 3: Jerry Heming's brother called me up and said, there are
Speaker 3: issues with that. You no longer have permission or can
Speaker 3: grant permission for that to be reproduced. There's a long
Speaker 3: story there, but as it ended up, we could not
Speaker 3: put that in the in the next edition of the book.
Speaker 3: So sometimes there are things that go into those originals
Speaker 3: that that don't go on in time, and that I've
Speaker 3: seen that on even a few years ago, I saw
Speaker 3: a first edition of someone I've talked on, you know,
Speaker 3: available online for like one hundred and seventy five dollars.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like, whoa, how did that happen? Well, okay,
Speaker 4: because it's kind of unique.
Speaker 2: Plus Larry has to do the math that he was
Speaker 2: probably getting ten bucks for them at the time pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you know, okay, so this went up, you know,
Speaker 2: seventeen times price. Okay, how did I miss that? Also,
Speaker 2: why I'm going to hang onto my copy spiral bound,
Speaker 2: that one's mine. I'm keeping it even when I do
Speaker 2: clear out my books, which I'm going to do very
Speaker 2: soon as well. I'm going to offer up all the
Speaker 2: books I have that, yeah, I don't think are essential
Speaker 2: to me. Now that's a weird list, and yeah, everything
Speaker 2: that says authored by Larry Hancock. Though I'm keeping at
Speaker 2: least one copy of If I have too, you might
Speaker 2: be able to get it from me. But anyway, I
Speaker 2: just wanted that note. But Larry, we've really kind of
Speaker 2: run up against the time that I wanted to spend
Speaker 2: with you, and I think that you had for me.
Speaker 2: So is there anything else you want to add here
Speaker 2: that we didn't get to real quick on your way
Speaker 2: out the door.
Speaker 4: Now I think that pretty well.
Speaker 3: Clever's what's going on as to the extent that I
Speaker 3: could stay in touch with it. It's kind of like
Speaker 3: a moving target.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: I think we're going to find out more from this
Speaker 3: process than we might have voked.
Speaker 4: It's not easy.
Speaker 3: It's it's more like the erratus she You know, you
Speaker 3: learn a lot from Arata, but there are no smoking
Speaker 3: guns that just leap out at you.
Speaker 4: You got to work for it.
Speaker 2: The thing to me that's interesting is that there are
Speaker 2: some people that are overly optimistic about this kind of
Speaker 2: thing and there are some people that are so pessimistic
Speaker 2: about it that you know, look, I understand the pessimism,
Speaker 2: but neither one of the extremes is correct. You're going
Speaker 2: to land somewhere in the middle. Okay, we're not going
Speaker 2: to get nothing out of this. It's not going to
Speaker 2: be a total nothing burger. But like you said, don't
Speaker 2: expect the smoking guns either. So you know, you got
Speaker 2: to temper this a bit.
Speaker 3: And sometimes closing out things is good. Learning that something
Speaker 3: kind of like, yes, it did exist, it was on
Speaker 3: was real. Here it is, I can look at it.
Speaker 3: Putting some of the mysteries to bed is not a
Speaker 3: bad thing, even if they don't solve the case, and
Speaker 3: just putting it to bed is a good thing exactly.
Speaker 2: So, anyway, you do go to Larry Hancock's blog, there
Speaker 2: will be a link in the description with the show
Speaker 2: and all that in the show notes, I will give
Speaker 2: you that a link to go pick up the Oswald Puzzle,
Speaker 2: which is definitely something I'm more than happy to tell
Speaker 2: you I recommend highly. And you know, just really quickly though,
Speaker 2: the fact that I put Malcolm Blunt in front of
Speaker 2: you on the super team for documents related to the
Speaker 2: jfkkse if I could put it together. You're not mad
Speaker 2: at me for that, are you? No?
Speaker 3: And he's taller too, so that sounds fair. If we're
Speaker 3: going to a basketball game, he's certainly up front.
Speaker 2: No basketball, he's got you, I'm sorry, he just does.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to documents stuff though, it's not
Speaker 2: like Larry's a slouch. I'm just saying that Malcolm's a
Speaker 2: little special in this way. And I can tell you
Speaker 2: that more than one author who is intelligent, sometimes confident,
Speaker 2: sometimes overconfident, even ego maniacal people. And I do claim
Speaker 2: to have met some of them in the JFK universe.
Speaker 2: You know what, A lot of them will defer to
Speaker 2: Malcolm Blunt for a reason, is all I'm saying. The
Speaker 2: guy has been one of the most knowledgeable people regarding
Speaker 2: this stuff and has been one of the best directors
Speaker 2: for suggestions. If you needed to know something, couldn't find
Speaker 2: it yourself, and you had ten people looking for it,
Speaker 2: you might just have to ask Malcolm Blunt and he
Speaker 2: might know it off the top of his head.
Speaker 3: He has spent more he has spent more time at
Speaker 3: the National Archives than any normal saying human being could
Speaker 3: even consider me.
Speaker 2: So I gave you the the you know, the bottom line,
Speaker 2: and Larry told you why he has that knowledge in
Speaker 2: some ways. But also he has a special retention for it.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. It's just I don't
Speaker 2: even know what to call that skill, but it's a
Speaker 2: talent that he has and always had ever since I
Speaker 2: heard of him. Anyway, And like I said, I can't
Speaker 2: think of an author, a major author on the case
Speaker 2: that if they were working heavily with documents at a
Speaker 2: certain point, didn't either consult Malcolm directly or look at
Speaker 2: what Malcolm had to say about it regarding certain documentation,
Speaker 2: the validity of it, sometimes when things were falsified, sometimes
Speaker 2: when things were altered, the differences between one document and another,
Speaker 2: et cetera, the nuances in there. Malcolm was your guy.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it maybe partially as a result of that,
Speaker 2: but I also think just it's one of those things
Speaker 2: that he just has. And yeah, I would call him
Speaker 2: definitely a documents expert on the case. I'd call you
Speaker 2: that too, Larry.
Speaker 3: And he always shared it that the huge thing from Malcolm.
Speaker 3: Malcolm never kept anything back. He would always share stuff
Speaker 3: to the extent that when we go to Dallas, it
Speaker 3: would be is Malcolm here, And then you'd look around
Speaker 3: and Malcolm is kind of flipping you ten or fifteen
Speaker 3: pages of papers, just like, Okay, yeah he's here, he's
Speaker 3: behind that plant over there.
Speaker 4: But he gave me some stuff, yep.
Speaker 2: And that's the other thing is that he was very
Speaker 2: open to working with virtually anyone who was serious. So
Speaker 2: there you go, and was helpful at all points. And
Speaker 2: I don't mean it was as in past tense, but
Speaker 2: I'm saying this is the experience I know, I have
Speaker 2: heard about and I have witnessed, so you know there
Speaker 2: it is. Anyway, That's why I made those comments, and
Speaker 2: we talked about all the updates I think we could,
Speaker 2: and Larry, thanks again for doing this with me. I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and so glad to continue to have
Speaker 2: you about every other week or so on the show
Speaker 2: to keep us updated and let us know when your
Speaker 2: next piece of work is coming out, because you do
Speaker 2: have some stuff upcoming, but maybe well, yeah, yeah, good.
Speaker 4: The UAP book. The first book.
Speaker 2: Will be.
Speaker 5: Raws dot dot com, Wall Street, Windlow dot com dot com.
Speaker 5: Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of The War State, gives
Speaker 5: you the benefit of his knowledge.
Speaker 2: Raw dot, go there, now, go.
Speaker 1: There, now there now, Oh Chili dot com. In Denial
Speaker 1: Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks by Larry Hancock.
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Speaker 6: are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips
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Speaker 2: Using new files.
Speaker 6: It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no
Speaker 6: one has ever written about before. It shows why it
Speaker 6: really failed and why the United States did not learn
Speaker 6: from it. It also shows why other countries today are
Speaker 6: doing secret operations with more success. This is the book
Speaker 6: that puts what some want to deny into the light.
Speaker 6: In Denial secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock.
Speaker 6: For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com.
Speaker 6: Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot
Speaker 6: com in digital or physical thing.
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Speaker 2: You not necessarily reflect he views of Jelly dot com
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Speaker 7: Uncle, do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said
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