1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,600 Speaker 1: I want you to step back for a moment and 2 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:05,559 consider the biggest challenge facing military intelligence in the twenty 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:06,200 first century. 4 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,679 Speaker 2: Right, what's really the top priority? What keeps them up 5 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:09,720 at night exactly? 6 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Is it hypersonic missiles, is it advanced cyber warfare, the 7 00:00:14,919 --> 00:00:16,079 things we always read about. 8 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: What conventional threats? 9 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: Or is it something far more fundamental, something that breaks 10 00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:22,399 every known rule of physics and. 11 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,359 Speaker 2: Well biology, something that doesn't fit into any of their 12 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:26,320 existing boxes. 13 00:00:26,399 --> 00:00:30,519 Speaker 1: Imagine a scenario. A highly trained intelligence officer, fresh off 14 00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:34,679 investigating unexplained objects flying near America's most sensitive nuclear sites, 15 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,479 comes home to Washington, DC. 16 00:00:36,719 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 3: Okay, so a high level operator, a very high level operator, 17 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:42,759 and he comes home only to find that his entire 18 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,960 family is being tormented by a creature described as a 19 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,359 bipedal wolf. 20 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: A bipedal wolf. 21 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: And this creature, whatever it is, is physical enough to 22 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,240 leave deep scratch marks on the trees in his yard. 23 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,399 Speaker 2: So tangible physical evidence. 24 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: This isn't the setup for a horror movie. This is 25 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,719 the documented outcome of a real, sanctioned US government funded initiative. 26 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,599 Speaker 2: A program that was supposed to be looking into something 27 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,319 else entirely completely. 28 00:01:09,519 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: It was a program launched to investigate advanced technology that 29 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,719 immediately descended into the realm of the genuinely inexplicable and yes, 30 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,040 the paranormal. The government started looking for the fastest jets, 31 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:26,000 and they ended up chasing shadows and what some might 32 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,599 call ghosts, an unbelievable pivot. Welcome to thrilling Threads. We 33 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,439 pull on the loose ends of the most fascinating complex 34 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,200 stories to give you the context, the nuance, and the 35 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,239 surprising details you need to be deeply informed. 36 00:01:39,359 --> 00:01:42,239 Speaker 2: And today we're really pulling on a thread that unravels 37 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:42,640 a lot. 38 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:47,159 Speaker 1: Our focus today is on the stunning officially recognized intersection 39 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,799 of US military intelligence and unexplained phenomena, drawing heavily on 40 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:55,200 sources gathered by chief investigator George Knapp of eight News 41 00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:58,079 now Las Vegas, who really broke this whole thing open. 42 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,719 Speaker 2: NAP's work has been foundational here for decades. 43 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: Our mission today is to give you the shortcut to 44 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:07,120 understanding the largest, most detailed, and perhaps strangest UFO investigation 45 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:09,280 ever undertaken by the US government. 46 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:10,759 Speaker 2: As far as we know anyway, as. 47 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: Far as we know, and we need to understand not 48 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,560 just that this program existed but why a core investigation 49 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,360 into advanced aerospace technology forced top intelligence officers to confront creatures, 50 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:27,240 poltergeists and the very real consequences of the supernatural contaminating 51 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:27,759 their lives. 52 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: And that framing, you know, the idea of contamination of 53 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,719 an existential threat. That is precisely why this material is 54 00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:38,240 so vital. We have to grasp the foundational legitimacy of 55 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:38,639 this work. 56 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: This wasn't a side project, not at all. 57 00:02:40,759 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: We are discussing a program initiated back in two thousand 58 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,840 and eight with the crucial high level support of former 59 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,319 Senator Harry Reid. It was eventually approved and overseen by 60 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,759 the Defense Intelligence Agency, the DIA. 61 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: The DiiA, so we're talking serious intelligence. 62 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: Hardware, the most serious. The official designation for this program 63 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,240 was all SAP. That's Alsa, internal acronym approved by the DIA. 64 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,879 The director of the program a government scientist and rocket 65 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:10,080 specialist named doctor Jim McCaskey. He provided a full accounting 66 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,039 of the program's findings years later, and the core finding, 67 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,000 the one that broke through years of his own scientific 68 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:21,240 skepticism and stunned him in his colleagues, was this What 69 00:03:21,439 --> 00:03:24,599 was it? The unknown craft? They were supposed to be studying. 70 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:28,319 These high tech objects military pilots were chasing seemed to 71 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,680 generate spooky phenomena seemingly that seemingly shouldn't exist. 72 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,479 Speaker 1: That one statement, it just reframes the entire discussion around UAPs, 73 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,159 doesn't it completely? It suggests that the phenomenon is not 74 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,120 merely a foreign piece of hardware we need to figure 75 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,639 out how to shoot down. No, it's a holistic event. 76 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,599 If the technology itself generates or attracts supernatural manifestations, then 77 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:52,319 you're not dealing with an engineering problem. 78 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: You're dealing with a reality. 79 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: Problem, a reality problem exactly. 80 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:57,759 Speaker 2: And we really have to resist the temptation to just 81 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,520 jump straight to the ghosts. 82 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: And the monsters, which is hard to. 83 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: Do, very hard. But we need to connect this to 84 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,319 the bigger picture of conventional national security. Because the program 85 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:09,840 didn't start because THEIA was looking. 86 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:13,199 Speaker 1: For ghosts, right, They weren't ghost hunters, far from it. 87 00:04:13,199 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: It started because the Defense Intelligence Agency, whose primary job 88 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,720 is intelligence gathering and threat assessment, was genuinely alarmed about 89 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,439 quantifiable military threats. The key figures leading this initiative were 90 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,720 doctor James McCaskey, a career rocket scientist and intelligence analyst 91 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:32,000 and his colleague J. 92 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: Stratton, And what was it that alarmed them? What was 93 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,839 the official rationale? 94 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,879 Speaker 2: The official rationale for securing millions in funding were the 95 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,399 recurring official reports of UFO intrusions at many of our 96 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,920 nation's most sensitive national defense facilities. 97 00:04:44,959 --> 00:04:47,319 Speaker 1: We're talking nuclear missile silos. 98 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 2: We're talking about installations that house nuclear assets, top secret aircraft, 99 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:57,480 critical infrastructure. When unidentified aircraft demonstrates speed, maneuverability and persistence 100 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,439 that surpass our own official capability. 101 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:01,959 Speaker 1: The DIA has to take that seriously. 102 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,879 Speaker 2: They must view that as a critical and immediate national 103 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,720 security threat. That was the conventional initiating problem the DIA 104 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:09,560 sought to solve. 105 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: Okay, so we have a conventional, high stakes problem, unknown 106 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,879 advanced technology harassing our critical defense facilities. Very straightforward from 107 00:05:18,879 --> 00:05:19,879 a military perspective. 108 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:20,959 Speaker 2: Take forward as it gets. 109 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: But then the focus pivots dramatically. And this is where 110 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,920 the geography of the American West transforms a technical investigation 111 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:32,439 into a well a paranormal inquiry. How did a highly 112 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:36,800 classified DIA program end up using a private remote ranch 113 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,319 in Utah as its central operational hub? 114 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:41,639 Speaker 2: And that is the billion dollar question. Isn't it. 115 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: This brings us to what's known as the Skinwalker Ranch nexus. 116 00:05:44,879 --> 00:05:47,519 The Juenta Basin in northeastern Utah has been an area 117 00:05:47,639 --> 00:05:50,600 dense with high strange news reports for decades, I mean 118 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:51,759 long before this investigation. 119 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,959 Speaker 2: Decades. Yes, the ranch itself became UFO Central for all SAP, 120 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,959 and it had previously been owned by Las Vegas aerospace 121 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000 tycoon Robert Bige. 122 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: And Bigelow is not just some eccentric billionaire. He's a 123 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:05,720 serious player in the aerospace world. 124 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: A very serious player, and his role was absolutely instrumental. 125 00:06:10,199 --> 00:06:13,360 He served as the contractor Bigelow Aerospace and provided the 126 00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:14,240 physical location. 127 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: But why there, Why this one ranch? 128 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: His operational logic was what convinced the DiiA leadership to 129 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:24,480 pivot the investigation's focus. He proposed the ranch as a 130 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,279 unique facility, a kind of laboratory where investigators could observe 131 00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:31,319 UFOs and the paranormal at once in one location. 132 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,399 Speaker 1: So he was pitching it as a two for one deal. 133 00:06:33,639 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: Essentially, Yes, for intelligence analysts who are facing a complex problem, 134 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,759 the idea of a hotspot, a single area where the 135 00:06:40,759 --> 00:06:43,279 phenomenon manifests consistently is gold. 136 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: It's a controlled environment, yeah, or as controlled as it 137 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:46,279 can be. 138 00:06:46,519 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: Exactly. The Bigelow Ranch, situated in a region with decades 139 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,160 of documented, frequent and varied, unexplained phenomena, was deemed the 140 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:55,800 epicenter of weird activity. 141 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: And we're not just talking about lights in the sky, no. 142 00:06:58,079 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 2: No, The historical reports included what investigators called unknown creatures, 143 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:08,160 cattle mutilations, phenomena that defied any meteorological or human made explanation. 144 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,120 By locating the investigation there, the DEIA accepted that the 145 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,959 investigation of advanced technology would inherently involve the high strangeness 146 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,120 associated with that specific location. 147 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,959 Speaker 1: That's the part that requires a tremendous intellectual leap of 148 00:07:23,959 --> 00:07:26,839 faith on the part of the intelligence community. You're asking 149 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:29,759 a rocket scientist and a DEIA analyst to abandon the 150 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:33,360 scientific method and accept that a physical advanced technology might 151 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,480 be linked to something folkloric. 152 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,519 Speaker 2: Like a cryptid or a poltergeist. 153 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: Exactly. 154 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,839 Speaker 2: But the strategic motivation, and this is key, it transcended 155 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,120 mere curiosity. It was purely pragmatic. It was all about weaponization. 156 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,199 Speaker 1: Weaponization, how so they. 157 00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:50,399 Speaker 2: Were driven by the need to categorize and counter the threat. 158 00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:52,720 They didn't care if the reports were wild, they cared 159 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:53,959 if the effects were real. 160 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,439 Speaker 1: And exploitable, so could they use it? 161 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,439 Speaker 2: That was the question. The primary strategic question they pursued 162 00:07:59,519 --> 00:08:03,879 was this, did UFOs and the seemingly related paranormal incidents 163 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,399 constitute a threat that the DIA needed to counter, or 164 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,720 more critically, one that they could harness. 165 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Harness Wow, Doctor. 166 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: McCaskey highlighted the objective of learning what can be weaponized. 167 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:19,399 This focused intensely on the effects the unknown craft generated. 168 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: So if the craft generated effects that caused debilitating fear, 169 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,360 or confusion or psychosis in. 170 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: Witnesses, that effect itself was viewed as a potential weapon, 171 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,519 a psychological weapon. Precisely, this included the potential of inducing 172 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,320 phenomena that some people might call illusions, meaning illusions or 173 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,480 severe psychological effects into an enemy force. That's incredible in 174 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,720 intelligence parlance. If you can project confusing, terrifying, or fundamentally 175 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:48,440 reality bending effects into an adversary's operational space, their command center, 176 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:52,080 their front line, that is a profoundly potent, non lethal 177 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,120 psychological weapon. 178 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: So the DEA needed to understand the mechanics of this 179 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:58,840 high strangeness, not to confirm ghosts exist. 180 00:08:58,919 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: But to categorize an new form of warfare. They were 181 00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:05,320 essentially asking, is the bipedal wolf a byproduct of the 182 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,879 propulsion system? And if so, can we reverse engineer the 183 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:10,759 bipedal wolf? 184 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,519 Speaker 1: That intellectual shift is what makes this program so compelling. 185 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,559 They moved from asking how fast can this thing fly? 186 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,360 To asking can this thing make our enemies go insane? 187 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,639 Speaker 2: And if they could reverse engineer the mechanism that generates 188 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:29,559 these strange effects, the creatures the poltergeist activity and deploy 189 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,440 that against an enemy's command and control structures. 190 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,759 Speaker 1: That's a game changer for intelligence operations globally. It turns 191 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:38,120 the study of the paranormal into a necessary component of 192 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,240 national defense. 193 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:39,879 Speaker 2: A vital component. 194 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,759 Speaker 1: So let's establish the necessary context for the scale. Because 195 00:09:42,759 --> 00:09:45,320 this was not some informal meeting in a back room. 196 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: No, this was a major operation. 197 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,159 Speaker 1: Senator Reid was crucial in securing the necessary funding and 198 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,799 Bigelow Aerospace was brought on as the primary contractor. The 199 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,720 program received significant resources. 200 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: The physical and personnel infrastructure was robust and professional, all 201 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,279 reflecting a very serious commitment to the investigation. The program 202 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,480 required a large, secure operational footprint. 203 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,159 Speaker 1: How many people are we talking about. 204 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,399 Speaker 2: Fifty fifty full time investigators were hired for all SAP 205 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,960 and crucially, these were not you know, academic researchers or 206 00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:22,440 UFO enthusiasts. These were intelligence professionals and defense professionals. Every 207 00:10:22,519 --> 00:10:26,000 single one of them was vetted and obtained top secret 208 00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:29,080 security clearances specifically to conduct this investigation. 209 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,159 Speaker 1: Fifty people with top secret clearance looking for a bipedal wolf. 210 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: That's the reality of it. The fact that fifty cleared 211 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:40,440 intelligence personnel were investigating the intersection of advanced technology and 212 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:44,240 high strangeness and returning to Washington, d C. With these reports. 213 00:10:44,879 --> 00:10:48,240 It demands that we take the source material not just seriously, 214 00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:53,200 but as fundamentally accurate reporting from trained professionals operating under 215 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,039 official mandate. 216 00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: This is not a fringe project. 217 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: It was classified intelligence work, plain and simple. 218 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: It sets a critical precedent. You have fifty highly skeptical, 219 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,080 highly trained individuals with top clearances, people whose entire careers 220 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,159 depend on discerning fact from fiction, and they're confirming the 221 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:13,440 reality of these phenomena. 222 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: Their findings might be outlandish, but the sources providing the 223 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,879 data are undeniably legitimate within the US intelligence apparatus. 224 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,919 Speaker 1: The dedication of resources, the classification level. It all demonstrates 225 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,840 the seriousness of the initial national security. 226 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:31,799 Speaker 2: Concern absolutely, And while the official main focus remained on 227 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,480 UFOs and their technology, the nuts and bolts, the physics 228 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:38,480 of it all, the structure of the program allowed for 229 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:42,039 a mandatory secondary focus, and that secondary focus it proved 230 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,519 far more revealing about the true nature of the phenomenon. 231 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: How did they manage that? How do you get paranormal 232 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:48,879 investigation approved in a government budget? 233 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 2: The legal mechanism by which all SAP was able to 234 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,200 formally incorporate it is a textbook example of government ingenuity. 235 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:59,120 The program was legally structured to include a focus on 236 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,879 measurable health effects on people who encountered a UFO health effects. 237 00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: Okay, that sounds reasonable. 238 00:12:04,279 --> 00:12:07,879 Speaker 2: It sounds perfectly reasonable. But this wasn't just about radiation 239 00:12:08,039 --> 00:12:11,679 burns or physical injuries. It was also about developing rare, 240 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,279 unexplained diseases and critically psychological effects. 241 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: Ah. There it is the beautiful bureaucratic loophole. 242 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:19,639 Speaker 2: The perfect loophole. 243 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,639 Speaker 1: They didn't have to put investigate cryptids on the budget line. 244 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,360 They just had to say they were looking into psychological 245 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:28,360 effects and health impacts. 246 00:12:27,919 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: Precisely This specific inclusion psychological effects provided all SAP the 247 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,240 required latitude to cast a very wide net and to 248 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,080 formally report what otherwise would have been dismissed as seemingly 249 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,320 outlandish stories about creatures, poltergeist type activity, and other weirdness. 250 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: So if witness reported, say, a buzzing in their ears 251 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,200 after seeing a craft, and. 252 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: Also reported seeing a shadow figure in their bedroom that night, the. 253 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: Shadow figure report became a legitimate data point under the 254 00:12:57,159 --> 00:12:59,000 umbrella of psychological effects. 255 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: Exactly. This transformed what was previously anecdotal folklore into official, 256 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,159 classified intelligence data. 257 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: That's the genius of the program's designed. They created a 258 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,679 classification system for the genuinely inexplicable they had to. And 259 00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:16,679 once they started collecting this data, doctor McCaskey confirms that 260 00:13:16,799 --> 00:13:22,039 all SAP created a massive, unprecedented database of UFO accounts, 261 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:26,200 leveraging all the official government resources at their disposal. And 262 00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,279 within that massive data set, they started noticing a pattern. 263 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,279 Speaker 2: A very persistent pattern. 264 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:31,759 Speaker 1: What was it? 265 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,159 Speaker 2: This data pattern is perhaps the single most revealing nugget 266 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,279 about the nature of the phenomenon itself. McCaskey and his 267 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,799 analysts observed that witnesses were almost always reluctant to admit 268 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,759 that they had also had paranormal experiences after encountering UFOs. 269 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,759 Speaker 1: That makes sense. The stigma is huge. 270 00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: The stigma is enormous. There is a clear social and 271 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,159 psychological filter. Witnesses were confident enough to report foreign technology 272 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,759 to the government, but they were deeply ashamed or fearful 273 00:13:58,759 --> 00:14:01,919 of ridicule if they admitted seeing a ghost or a wolfman. 274 00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: So he's leave that part out. 275 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 2: It's self censor. However, mccaskey's finding was definitive if investigators 276 00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:11,159 would gently push them if they were given the official 277 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,480 validation of a classified government program. 278 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: So if they were told it's okay, you can tell 279 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:16,600 us anything exactly. 280 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: People confident enough to report close up UFO sightings on 281 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:23,039 the ground always seem to have a paranormal connection in 282 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:23,759 some way. 283 00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: Always. 284 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: That's the finding. The UFO encounter appeared to be a catalyst, 285 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:33,240 a trigger, or a magnet for other seemingly unrelated paranormal activity. 286 00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: So let's analyze the implication of that finding. We're discussing 287 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:39,879 a correlation that is nearly one hundred percent. 288 00:14:40,039 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: It's a stunning correlation. 289 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,159 Speaker 1: Why does a UFO encounter appear to be a trigger 290 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:50,879 for other paranormal activity. Is it just the psychological stress 291 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,639 the event, which then manifests an hallucination. 292 00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: That would be the simple skeptical explanation. 293 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: Which does that hold up. 294 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: Given the source material? The latter seems more likely from 295 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,120 the DIA's perspective, especially since they were looking into weaponization. 296 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,519 If the phenomena were purely psychological, the threat would be 297 00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:10,960 easier to mitigate through basic counterintelligence measures. 298 00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: Right, you just need better psychological screenings. 299 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: But if the UFO acts as a generator, if its 300 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,039 propulsion system fundamentally tears a little hole in the fabric 301 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,879 of reality, allowing creatures and poultrygeist to manifest, then the 302 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,960 threat is physical, environmental, and non local. It's an environmental contaminant, 303 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:32,360 which suggests that the high tech object and the high 304 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,159 strangeness creature are not just linked, but are two manifestations 305 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:40,879 of the same underlying physical process that we do not understand. 306 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,559 Speaker 1: That changes the entire definition of intelligence. You're no longer 307 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,320 measuring radar cross sections. You're measuring localized reality distortion fields. 308 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:52,360 And if you are an intelligence officer in that program, 309 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:54,799 you realize your job isn't about physics anymore. 310 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,039 Speaker 2: It's about metaphysics, and it becomes personal, frighteningly personal. 311 00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,039 Speaker 1: And if you need proof, proof that the threat was 312 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,320 not merely theoretical, but immediate and devastating, we have to 313 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,759 turn to the absolute centerpiece of the all SAP investigation 314 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,919 and the most frightening consequence documented. 315 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,039 Speaker 2: The part that really brings. 316 00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: It all home, the existence of the Hitchhiker effect. This 317 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:19,840 phenomenon defines the ultimate risk of investigating the weirdness directly 318 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:20,440 at the source. 319 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,919 Speaker 2: We need to define this phenomenon very clearly, as it 320 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,080 represents the highest security risk documented by the program. The 321 00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:33,840 Hitchhiker effect is the terrifying process wherein highly experienced, top 322 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:37,879 secret cleared intelligence officers who visited the Big Low Ranch, 323 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:41,559 these fifty investigators, some of these fifty, yes, they came 324 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,200 into direct contact with the paranormal phenomena present there and 325 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,279 then unknowingly took it home with them. 326 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:48,679 Speaker 1: It attached itself to them. 327 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: The phenomenon traveled with the investigators, contaminating their secure domestic environments. 328 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:57,159 This wasn't a case of personnel developing PTSD or just 329 00:16:57,159 --> 00:17:02,799 feeling unsettled. This was verifiable physical phenomena manifesting thousands of miles. 330 00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:04,279 Speaker 1: Away, often on the East coast right now. 331 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: Yes, inside the secure domestic spaces of some of our 332 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,400 nation's most sensitive personnel. Think about the implications for counterintelligence. 333 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,839 Speaker 1: A foreign, non local entity successfully penetrated the secure homes 334 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,480 of US intelligence officers. 335 00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:19,559 Speaker 2: That's a catastrophic security breach. 336 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,279 Speaker 1: That is the stuff of genuine security nightmares. It suggests 337 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:26,599 that the phenomenon is not contained by fences, distance, or 338 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,920 even advanced security protocols. It's a form of contamination, perhaps 339 00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:34,359 spiritual or psychological, that travels via the human host and 340 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,920 then manifests physically at the destination. A contagion, a paranormal contagion. 341 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,359 The sources detailed that at least five intelligence officers and 342 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,319 their families experienced these phenomena inside their homes, often far 343 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,079 from you saw. 344 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,519 Speaker 2: And the manifestations were absolutely not subtle. 345 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,599 Speaker 1: Not at all. They included classic high strangeness events, unexplained lights, 346 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,839 shadowy figures, and creatures that were definitively physical, not merely 347 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,880 a mental image or an illusion that could be dis 348 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:01,160 missed by a psychiatrist. 349 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: And to drive home the absurdity and the horror of 350 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,200 this reality, we have the chilling anecdote of one specific investigator. 351 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:09,559 Speaker 1: This is the one that always gets me. 352 00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: He returned to his East Coast home near Washington, d C. 353 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,400 After visiting the ranch, and his entire family was subsequently 354 00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:20,680 bedeviled by orbs, those strange balls of light, and what 355 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,079 they described as a wolf that walked on two legs. 356 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,279 Speaker 1: Put yourself in the shoes of that intelligence officer. 357 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. 358 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,759 Speaker 1: You are trained to dismiss hoaxes, to analyze foreign technology, 359 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,079 and you are living in a secure home, Yet you 360 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,680 are sharing that home with a physical, bipedal canine entity 361 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,680 that is terrifying your children and your spouse. 362 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: This is not operational trauma. This is a literal invasion 363 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,200 of your reality by something that should not exist. 364 00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:55,799 Speaker 1: And the phenomena, confirmed by the sources, demonstrated its astonishing mobility. 365 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,920 The investigator, situated near the nation's capital, had to con 366 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:04,400 front the profound and unnerving realization that this phenomena followed. 367 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: Him home, which raises the critical intelligence question, what did 368 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,559 get on the trainer plane and come into Washington? 369 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: The entity, whatever it was, utilized human infrastructure trains commercial 370 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,279 planes to cross continental distances alongside a government official, evading 371 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,000 all conventional security checks. 372 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: This is where we have to address the paradox because 373 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,960 it challenges everything we know about matter, transport and classification. Crucially, 374 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,799 the effects were not purely subjective. 375 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: This is the most important part. 376 00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:33,599 Speaker 2: The source documentation, as revealed by McCaskey, confirms the existence 377 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:38,680 of physical evidence. This biketal wolf left an objective alteration 378 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:40,200 to the environment. 379 00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: A deep scratch mark on a tree where the creature 380 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,160 was resting. 381 00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 2: This point is paramount. If the only evidence was the 382 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,519 psychological terror experienced by the family, skeptics could argue it 383 00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:53,039 was mass hysteria or shared psychosis. 384 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: You could explain it away, you could try. 385 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 2: But the existence of physical trace evidence the scratch mark 386 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,640 means the entity was physical enough to interact violently with 387 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240 a natural world, leaving behind an objective data point. This 388 00:20:07,279 --> 00:20:11,079 turns the discussion entirely from did the officer suffer a breakdown? 389 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,680 To what physical thing left that scratch mark in his 390 00:20:14,839 --> 00:20:16,440 secure East Coast yard. 391 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: And this is the paradox that the DIA was forced 392 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,440 to grapple with and which we must explore. How can 393 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,880 an entity be physical enough to scratch a tree and 394 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,160 terrorize a family, yet non physical or non local enough 395 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,240 to transport itself thousands of miles across the country, writing 396 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,559 commercial infrastructure without being detected. 397 00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 2: It shouldn't be possible by. 398 00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:39,559 Speaker 1: Airport security, thermal cameras, or conventional means. The only viable 399 00:20:39,599 --> 00:20:43,640 intelligence conclusion is that the Hitchhiker effect involves a phenomenon 400 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,079 capable of oscillating between physical and non physical states, or. 401 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: Perhaps existing in a dimension that is non contiguous with 402 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,880 our physical space, only to manifest when triggered by proximity 403 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,440 to the affected human host. 404 00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:59,319 Speaker 1: It suggests that the threat is not a fixed object, 405 00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:04,000 but a global intelligent contamination that uses people as vectors. 406 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,839 This is so far beyond conventional threat modeling. 407 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,519 Speaker 2: The pervasive reality of the Hitchhiker effect. This contaminating risk 408 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:14,359 to the personnel themselves was the single most disruptive finding 409 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,559 of all SAP. It moved the threat from a remote, 410 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,160 cordoned off defense facility in Utah right into the domestic 411 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,519 heart of the US intelligence community. 412 00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: And that reality, that risk is key to understanding what 413 00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:27,119 happened next. 414 00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: The program's termination. All SAP's existence and its strange findings 415 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,880 became public knowledge years later, partly through doctor mccaskey's writings, 416 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,920 including his newest book, New Insights. 417 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: When the programs end in late twenty ten was reported, 418 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,200 the easy, obvious narrative perpetuated by media skeptics was that 419 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,000 the DiiA killed it because the reports were simply too weird, which. 420 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: Sounds plausible, right. Government spooks get scared by spooky stories. 421 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: It's an easy headline. But that narrative, while emotionally satisfying 422 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,960 for those who prefer can ventional explanations, is refuted directly 423 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,640 by the program's director. 424 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: And that's the critical piece of insight we get from 425 00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:11,559 the source material. Doctor McCaskey was adamant. He directly refuted 426 00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:14,400 the idea that the DIA thought the findings were too weird. 427 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:17,680 He stated emphatically, No, they never did so. 428 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't the weirdness. 429 00:22:18,759 --> 00:22:21,519 Speaker 2: It was never the weirdness. Instead, the decision to terminate 430 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,559 was purely pragmatic and focused on political optics and risk mitigation. 431 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: They want the program killed quietly. 432 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,839 Speaker 2: Because they didn't want to see it in the Washington Posts. 433 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 What's fascinating here is the implication that the intelligence community 434 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,039 accepted the findings as genuine, but perhaps too sensitive or 435 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:42,720 politically toxic to withstand public scrutiny. The DIA was apparently 436 00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:47,680 entirely comfortable investigating bipedal wolves and reality bending orbs. 437 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: As long as the work remained classified within the walls 438 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,039 of intelligence reporting. 439 00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:54,759 Speaker 2: But the moment that work risked becoming a public embarrassment, 440 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,839 risking congressional investigations, late night talk show ridicule, or political 441 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,440 challenges to their funding, the entire program was quietly sacrificed. 442 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,839 Speaker 1: It confirms a crucial point about government programs that discovered 443 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,960 things that defy contemporary science. 444 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,599 Speaker 2: It is not the fact of the discovery that stops 445 00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:16,359 the work, it is the political cost of revealing that discovery. 446 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,240 The threat was genuine, but the optics were worse. 447 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: The termination, however, did not signal the end of the concern. 448 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,000 The all SAP team, led by Senator Reid and others 449 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,119 who understood the immense security implications of the hitchhiker effect, 450 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,960 tried desperately to find a new home for the investigation. 451 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,079 Speaker 2: They knew the problem hadn't gone away just because the 452 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:34,799 program did. 453 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: They developed a spinoff program to continue the research under 454 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,160 a new designation called ConA Blue. 455 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 2: The attempts to relocate the program highlight the desperate desire 456 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:48,920 by those involved to continue this critical work on national 457 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,880 security grounds. ConA blue was structured to be less reliant 458 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,680 on the DIA, focusing on rapid deployment and analysis of. 459 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,519 Speaker 1: New phenomena, so they shopped it around. 460 00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 2: They shopped the idea around to various federal agencies, and 461 00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:05,680 initially the Department of Homeland Security DHS actually approved the plan. 462 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: DHS approved it. That's huge. 463 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,079 Speaker 2: It speaks volumes about the perceived threat level. DHS, whose 464 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,640 mandate includes border security, critical infrastructure protection, and internal threats, 465 00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:20,880 recognize the profound implications of a phenomenon that could transport itself, 466 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,400 contaminate personnel, and cause physical harm within the continental United States. 467 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,599 Speaker 1: They essentially classified the paranormal phenomena as a domestic security. 468 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: Concern, a border threat in a way. 469 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,839 Speaker 1: But just as quickly as DHS approved it, the political 470 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,799 momentum stalled. 471 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 2: It did the approval was fleeting, and then higher ups 472 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,759 killed the project entirely. 473 00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:40,759 Speaker 1: So what does that tell us? 474 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,079 Speaker 2: It confirms that while specific agencies recognized the validity and 475 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,400 urgency of the threat, seeing it as an immediate risk 476 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,559 to border integrity and personnel safety, the broader political will 477 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,839 to fund a paranormal investigation was still lacking. 478 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,319 Speaker 1: Especially after the public attention on the DIA's earlier effort. 479 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: The culture of ultimately One, even if the underlying threat 480 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:04,880 remained unquantified. 481 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: But the story doesn't end with a neat political cancelation. 482 00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:10,799 Speaker 2: No, there's a little more to it. There is a 483 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,480 lingering mystery that gives us a sliver of hope that 484 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:15,240 the work continued, which. 485 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:16,839 Speaker 1: Comes from doctor mccaskey's new. 486 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 2: Book, Yes New Insights. In it, he hints that some 487 00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:23,480 slice of ConA Blue did manage to move forward under 488 00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:28,039 a different, likely even more deeply classified structure. He declines 489 00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:30,519 to spill further details, but that hint suggests that the 490 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,880 intelligence community's interest in these reality bending phenomena didn't simply 491 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,039 vanish in twenty eleven. 492 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,559 Speaker 1: It just went further underground. 493 00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 2: Into a realm even less susceptible to public oversight or 494 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:41,960 media scrutiny. 495 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,839 Speaker 1: And as we contextualize this massive secret government program, we 496 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,160 have to recognize that the ALASAP investigation wasn't created in 497 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,480 a vacuum, nor were the strange findings unprecedented. 498 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: Not at all. 499 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: The sources remind us that the history of the US 500 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,799 government Chasing the Unknown goes back decades, often centered around 501 00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:06,640 locations that have become synonymous with military secrecy, like Area 502 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:07,640 fifty one. 503 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,559 Speaker 2: And the program's eventual revelation to the public in twenty 504 00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:14,000 eighteen by George Knapp for eight News. Now Las Vegas 505 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:17,960 ties directly into Napp's decades of investigative work into the 506 00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:20,680 high strangeness associated with military sites. 507 00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: He's been on this beat for a long time, a 508 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:23,359 very long time. 509 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:25,799 Speaker 2: Napp was the first to break the story after a 510 00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:28,559 crucial conversation he had with the late John Lear, a 511 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,640 controversial but often well connected figure in the UFO research community. 512 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:36,319 Lear mentioned details about a scientist working under Area fifty one, 513 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,160 and Napp realized that the pieces of the puzzle spanning 514 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,839 years were finally connecting. 515 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:44,599 Speaker 1: It confirmed that the military's internal grappling with UFOs has 516 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,640 always involved encounters that defy conventional explanation. That historical context 517 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,960 is vital for you, the listener, to understand. It shows 518 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,759 that the issues all SAP encountered, the forced intersection of 519 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:01,279 military technology and the deeply weird, aren't ice. They are 520 00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:04,480 part of a continuous systemic problem that the US government 521 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,839 has struggled to manage and contain since the nineteen forties. 522 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,519 Speaker 2: And all SAP simply represents the most recent, most funded, 523 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,079 and most detailed attempt to apply rigorous intelligence analysis to 524 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,000 a persistent phenomenon that seems capable of redefining reality itself 525 00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:21,440 for the investigators involved. 526 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,839 Speaker 1: Okay, let's bring the synthesis together. What is the key 527 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,599 transformative takeaway from the story of all SAP and the 528 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,039 resulting Hitchhiker Effect. 529 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 2: The synthesis is chilling because it forces a redefinition of 530 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,720 what constitutes a national security threat. This was a sanctioned, 531 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,559 top secret government effort founded on analyzing advanced technology ANOS 532 00:27:39,559 --> 00:27:44,400 and Bolt's engineering problem supposedly, but this central revelation was 533 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,640 that the pursuit of that technology immediately led to the 534 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,839 seemingly impossible phenomena that were both spiritual and physical, and critically, 535 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000 this phenomenon demonstrated the ability to travel home with an 536 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,319 intelligence officer, leaving behind measurable physical scratch on trees and 537 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,720 highly populated secure areas like the Washington d C vicinity. 538 00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: So, if the goal of the investigation was to understand 539 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,240 what could be weaponized, and the documented result was the 540 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:13,640 Hitchhiker effect. 541 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,799 Speaker 2: The ability of an unknown phenomenon to project itself across 542 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,240 vast distances, disrupt human families, and leave objective physical evidence. 543 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,599 Speaker 1: Then the threat is potentially far greater that we can quantify. 544 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,440 It's not just external technology, it's a fundamental alteration of 545 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,599 perception and environment that we cannot currently control. 546 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: Or predict exactly. We are dealing with an intelligence mechanism 547 00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:38,279 that seems capable of defying time, space and biological categorization, 548 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,000 and yet it utilized human infrastructure, the train, the plane 549 00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,119 to propagate itself across the continent. 550 00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:46,079 Speaker 1: That transcends conventional physics. 551 00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:49,319 Speaker 2: It enters a realm where we must consider the intentionality 552 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,599 and operational methodology of a non human intelligence capable of 553 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,000 manifesting physical forces and psychological terrors. The government analysts at 554 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000 the DIA were forced to move far beyond conventional threat 555 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,119 modeling and explore the relationship between consciousness, technology, and reality itself. 556 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,000 The evidence suggests the threat is localized, personalized, and physical. 557 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: Which leads us with a truly essential, provocative question for 558 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,680 you to consider long after. 559 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,839 Speaker 2: This is over, and it's a big one. 560 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: If the US government, via a top secret, officially sanctioned program, 561 00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:26,240 found definitive physical proof of phenomena like a bipedal wolf 562 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,720 being transported across the country and leading physical traces. Should 563 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,000 understanding the paranormal be considered a manner of ongoing critical 564 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:33,920 national security? 565 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: And why is the unexplained now a bigger, more disruptive, 566 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,839 and more personal risk than the nuclear threat? 567 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: Think about that carefully. That deep scratch mark on a 568 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,000 tree outside DC demands the attention of the Pentagon, doesn't it. 569 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,680 Let us know what your stand is on this issue. 570 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,119 Do you believe the ALSAP program should have been allowed 571 00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:55,400 to continue its work in the weird or where the 572 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,000 political optics just too damaging to justify the immense cost. 573 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 2: We'd really I love to know what you think. 574 00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on Thrill and Threads. We'll 575 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,119 see you next time.