WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.839 Part of the reason I'm really excited about, you know, 2 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:07.320 what we're doing in the ecosystem today is, Hey, this 3 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:11.320 is absolutely necessary to bring the world's finances on chain, 4 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:16.079 and we're right at the point where a confluence of 5 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:21.920 factors both you know, you know, politically with regulations as 6 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:23.640 well as with the technology. 7 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:30.719 Is This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which 8 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:34.000 is a great crypto platform that makes it easy to buy, sell, 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:39.159 and stay crypto assets. Uphold has over three hundred plus cryptocurrencies, 10 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:42.240 including bitcoin in all the top all coins, and they 11 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:46.960 offer a crypto staking on over nineteen crypto assets. 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This rewards program 18 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.840 also allows you to get twenty four hour early access 19 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:14.280 to new tokens that they list, and to participate, you 20 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:16.840 just simply have to open the app once per month, 21 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.079 deposit fifty dollars once per month, and trade fifty dollars 22 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.840 once per month, and the stable coins that they support 23 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.840 includes Ripples, r l USD. You can earn up the 24 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.239 five percent on that stable coin and five point two 25 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.519 five percent on USBC. So if you do like to 26 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:35.560 learn more about uphold and all the great services they offer, 27 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:39.079 visit the link in the description. Hey, everybody, welcome into 28 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:42.040 the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward, and 29 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.200 joining me today's John Rising, who's the co founder and 30 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.239 CEO of stack Up. John. Great to have you on. 31 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.079 Thank you so much, Tony, it's great to be on. 32 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.879 John. I'm very excited to speak with you. You are a 33 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:59.000 literal rocket scientist. You worked at SpaceX and Virgin Galactic, 34 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:03.319 and now you're building in the crypto industry. So I 35 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:05.760 definitely want to learn more about your background and your 36 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.319 journey towards crypto and this great platform that you're building 37 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.120 for enterprises. But let's kick it off with your background. 38 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:13.879 Where are you from and how'd you end up into 39 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.000 the space industry if you want to call it that. 40 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.800 Yeah. Absolutely, As you said, I started my career in 41 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:25.199 aerospace engineering, so I worked for companies like SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, 42 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.960 and a company called Relativity, where I designed rocket engines 43 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.759 and launch vehicles. I got into it because in college 44 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.759 there was a group of students that was trying to 45 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:46.039 be the first completely student run organization to design, build, 46 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.319 and send a rocket into space, and I thought that 47 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:54.919 that was absolutely crazy. It sounded awesome. So even though 48 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.520 at the time I was a theater major, I decided, Hey, 49 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.240 you know what, I'm going to go check this out. 50 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.000 And long story short, I ended up spending pretty much 51 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.560 my entire college career working towards that. So I graduated 52 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:13.520 with a degree in mechanical engineering and worked at a 53 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.520 lot of really cool companies. And part of how I 54 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:19.560 got into crypto actually was through the space industry, of 55 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.240 all things. I was fortunate enough to be the first 56 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:27.080 employee at Relativity, which is a space company that I 57 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.680 helped scale the team from just me and the founders 58 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:37.039 to a big, multi billion dollar valuation, and I had 59 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.439 significant equity in the company, but it was all I 60 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:44.719 liquid and I saw the liquid twenty four to seven 61 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:49.960 nature Crypto after you know, taking a quick break from 62 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:55.599 that company, and it really piqued my interest. Like many 63 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:59.560 technical people, I had known about bitcoin since the you know, 64 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:04.240 pre silk road days and even tried binding bitcoin myself, 65 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:09.960 but hadn't really realized it had grown into smart contracts 66 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:16.759 and DeFi and the really innovative, awesome ecosystem that is today. 67 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.160 And so as I went through the process of onboarding 68 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:25.959 myself to crypto, like many people, I was really frustrated 69 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:32.279 about how difficult it was, even as a technically minded person, 70 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.920 you know, with time and money to spend. I lost 71 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.720 a bunch of money just doing basic things. But once 72 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:44.680 I got through it, an entire new world appeared. And 73 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:49.000 I was working at SpaceX, arguably the coolest company in 74 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:53.079 the world, but it was slow and boring in comparison 75 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:59.720 to what was happening at Crypto. So I became kind 76 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:03.759 of obsessed with the crypto industry, not so much the 77 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:11.360 typical kind of like you know, Djen, you know Ico NFT, 78 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.360 although I did end uppecting a lot of NFTs. I 79 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:17.360 really became obsessed with this problem of why is the 80 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:24.319 user experience in crypto so bad? And I found a 81 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:31.199 stack up to solve it. So we became the leading 82 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:36.319 developer platform for smart contract wallets when we first started, 83 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.480 so we served as critical infrastructure for customers like coinbas 84 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:45.680 wallet and trust Wallet, and through working with so many companies, 85 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:51.800 we found something absolutely shocking, which is the very companies 86 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.160 building the future of finance were struggling to do their 87 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.519 own actual day to day financial operations, just like I 88 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:05.800 was when I was logboarding. And uh we saw the 89 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.399 opportunity to get money moving and our technology as like 90 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:16.879 the perfect solution. Uh So it was a like huge 91 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.360 opportunity as well, you know, since like nearly all money 92 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:24.000 that moves is between businesses anyway. Uh, and so we 93 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.199 decided to pivot into what we are now. And so 94 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.279 stack up is a wallet and play payments platform for businesses. 95 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:36.439 So with stack up, you know, you can create to 96 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.199 share crypto wallets for your team that you can access 97 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.720 using familiar tools like you know, face Idea, your password managers, 98 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:50.160 and uh it eliminates the need to manage private keys. Additionally, 99 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.000 you can do things like you know, connect your company's 100 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.879 bank account to your wallet, enabling you know, seamless transfer 101 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:01.480 funds in between your you know, off chain Fiat treasury 102 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.399 and your on chain treasury. 103 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:08.680 Wow, you mentioned you helped coinbase and the trustwall to 104 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:13.399 establish their infrastructure for that. That's amazing. I mean Coinbase 105 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.120 obviously huge company, has gone public and much more used 106 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.920 by millions of users. You know what phase did they 107 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.680 bring you in? Were they kind of scratching their heads like, 108 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.560 how can we make this better? Let's talk? Did you 109 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.639 guys have stack up already established and then they brought 110 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:31.000 you in? 111 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:36.319 Yeah, So what we had done was stack Up had 112 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:40.040 helped develop the ERC fourth through three seven the ecosystem. 113 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:43.759 So ERC fourth through three seven for those in your 114 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:49.680 audience who don't know, is the account abstraction Stanford is 115 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:54.240 standard that went live in twenty twenty three that garnered 116 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.560 a lot more interest and excitement about about moving people 117 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.399 through smart accounts, and we were the first mover in 118 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:10.240 the space. We had established a close connection to coinbas 119 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.079 relatively early because you know, uh, they were very interested 120 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:17.439 in improving the user experience of their wallets and moving 121 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:23.800 them to a more smart contract wallet focused on chain experience. 122 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.839 So so we were very lucky to you know, get 123 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.920 in there early, have you know, build the support within 124 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:36.799 coinbase that hey, this is absolutely the future of wallets 125 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:43.000 and how user experience can work. And we helped them 126 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:50.759 transition to their smart wallet and smart account wow approach today. 127 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.480 Very nice and with regards to your technology and your platform, 128 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.440 and you're offering is it to for I guess you 129 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:00.919 may have answered this already, but I want to make 130 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.919 sure I wrap my mind around it. For the wallet 131 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.960 support and and all the things that can set up. 132 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:07.840 Is it both on the back end as well as 133 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.120 the front end, So there's that they can use this 134 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:14.960 technology platform for customer facing solutions but also for internals 135 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:17.279 back end management solutions. 136 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.919 Yeah, so we're primarily for people's kind of you know, 137 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:32.559 back end or back office operations. So for example, you 138 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:35.080 may have you know, like most of our customers are 139 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:40.440 crypto native organizations that have hid an inflection point. They've 140 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.279 grown beyond just the founders making you know, occasional payments 141 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:49.279 with uh, you know, with their personal ledgers to really 142 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:54.720 being scary serious about scaling up their projects and uh 143 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:00.080 they often very quickly recognize the need for applotf for 144 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:02.639 them to organize you know, all the money that they're moving. 145 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.639 So let me give you a concrete example. We work 146 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.879 with several security audit firms that pay out bug bounties 147 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:15.480 in crypto, and before stack Up, they relied, you know, 148 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.679 again just on a single hardware wallet that you know, 149 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.159 one of the founders had and they manually process each 150 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:25.279 transaction one by one. But now they can have someone 151 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:28.600 on their team or their own internal software que hundreds 152 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:33.559 of transactions, quickly review them and send them all at once. 153 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.799 And can this be used by pretty much any industry 154 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.559 or company. It doesn't have to be a crypto native business. 155 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:47.120 Yeah, correct, So, I mean one of our big philosophies 156 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.840 is that, you know, we're really trying to modernize financial 157 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:58.039 operations for crypto companies, just like brex and ramped it 158 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:02.960 for traditional businesses us like the status quo in crypto is, 159 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:08.159 you know, the fragmented systems manually verifying it retransaction. And 160 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.440 in crypto, so many losses come from a user doing 161 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.360 something they don't intend to do because their mental model 162 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.039 of how something works just doesn't match which what is 163 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:26.120 actually happening. And to handle this, traditionally crypto wallets have 164 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.159 been forced to communicate too much technical information to accurately 165 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:38.279 describe what's happening, right, and uh, with smart contract wallets 166 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:42.639 and ERC four thifty seven and these other technologies, really 167 00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:46.480 we can provide an experience that matches you know, users 168 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:52.480 mental models of how financial accounts work period. Uh, you know, 169 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.200 whether you are crypto native or whether you are you know, 170 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:00.320 Web two native or from the finance world. And uh, 171 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:04.639 part of the reason I'm really excited about, you know, 172 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:08.120 what we're doing in the ecosystem today is, hey, this 173 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:12.080 is absolutely necessary to bring the world's finances on chain. 174 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.879 And we're right at the point where a confluence of 175 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.720 factors both you know, you know, politically with regulations as 176 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:25.559 well as with the technology, especially in the Etherium ecosystem, 177 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:31.759 it's finally at a point where uh uh we can 178 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:38.240 you know, create that experience that we know is existential 179 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.600 to bringing the world on chain. 180 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.600 Yeah, such a great point. And I was actually going 181 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.159 to say that that same point that it feels like 182 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.639 the perfect timing for a platform like yours because we're 183 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.759 at the cusp of massive institutional adoption. Crypto legislation is 184 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.200 about to be passed this year, whether be for stable 185 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:00.919 points of market structure. We're already seeing big players tokenizing 186 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.360 and looking to integrate stable quints. Well, they're going to 187 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.960 need the management, They're going to need the infrastructure, and 188 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.320 that has been a problem, a challenge for a long time. 189 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.200 How can you get Web two or whether you're in 190 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.600 the I don't know steel business or I don't know 191 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.320 what a retail business, how can you get some sort 192 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.840 of setup to accept crypto and operate with crypto? 193 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.960 Yeah, I mean the macro environment is about to explode, 194 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:27.919 and I think we're about to see a Cambrian explosion 195 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:32.919 of companies like stackup as well as you know, other 196 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:39.799 solutions really helping bring organizations, you know, institutions looking to invest, 197 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:42.240 as well as businesses that just want better ways to 198 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:47.279 move money. I mean, the stable coin market currently has 199 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:49.120 a market cap of about two hundred and thirty four 200 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:53.240 billion dollars already, but the US Treasury just a few 201 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.720 weeks o put a report projecting into reach around two 202 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.600 trillion by twenty twenty eight, and that's absolutely insane. That's 203 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.960 over eight x growth in less than a few years. 204 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.840 And how is that going to happen. It's not going 205 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:13.120 to be through the current status quo, which is you know, 206 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:21.200 individuals with hardware wallets. And I'm actually really encouraged by 207 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.440 like the regulatory environment. You know, we just saw a 208 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:30.080 couple of days ago the Genius Act clear through the Senate, 209 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:35.279 and that kind of clear regulation is absolutely critical for 210 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.799 basic things like defining what is a stable cooin, what 211 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:44.480 isn't it And it's great that it's becoming less part 212 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:49.679 of it and within the US, it to me makes 213 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:55.000 complete sense because good stable cooin regulation is vital to 214 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:59.720 the United States's economic prosperity by helping it maintain the 215 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:04.360 dull position as the world's reserve asset, especially at a 216 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:09.240 time where there are some change ups in the way 217 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.240 that the United States has perceived around the world. 218 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:17.120 Oh yeah, and I know there's like this geopolitical level 219 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.080 of urgency to your point of the US dollar being 220 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.600 the world reserve currency and we're seeing like bricks down 221 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.840 trying to bypass US dollar. It feels like it's another 222 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.440 Breton Woods moment, you know, kind of what happened after 223 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.200 World War Two with the dollar in gold. It feels 224 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:34.399 like that's happening and the technologies here, and you know, 225 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.240 I saw Senator Haggerty, who's the one who you know, 226 00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:41.480 pushing the Genius Act. He was on CNBC saying by 227 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.559 twenty thirty, City Bank estimates that stable coin issues will 228 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.960 be the largest holders of US treasuries, which is mind 229 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.840 blowing to think about versus you know, other countries which 230 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:53.720 have been buying our treasuries for years. 231 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.919 Yeah. Absolutely, And it's going to be really interesting because 232 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.440 they have like it is going to change the structure 233 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:08.159 of financial markets. You know. Uh for example, there's an 234 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:12.320 open question about okay for banks, uh, you know, which 235 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.039 hold a really important role society of you know, helping 236 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.679 to you know, issue money. You know, they buy, you know, 237 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.879 take your money, purchase other kinds of assets, loan it out, 238 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:28.919 and the idea of stable coints becoming then the largest 239 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:34.559 purchases of treasure. Reasonble also becomes really interesting because it 240 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.440 really challenges, especially if it happens act quickly, it really 241 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:45.320 challenges how most people think about, you know, the way 242 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.799 money moves. And I also find that a lot of 243 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:58.240 people have assumed that the current you know structure of 244 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.679 you know, the US and world economy is you know, 245 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.599 pretty mature and kind of set in place. And the 246 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.680 reality is, like, as you pointed out, like this kind 247 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.440 of structure has only really existed, you know, since the 248 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.200 end of World War two, And in terms of like 249 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:18.759 the history of money, we're to very very you know, 250 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.519 it's still very nacent. 251 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:26.920 Oh for sure. Now walk us through maybe a mock example, 252 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.640 so Let's say I have my podcast. Let's say I 253 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.559 have ten employees, right, and I want to be able 254 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.279 to receive crypto payments, whether it be stable coins or 255 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:39.359 people send me bitcoin or eat whatever. And likewise, I 256 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.480 want to be able to pay in the same way. 257 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:43.920 And I have my employees and they are asking to 258 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:48.839 be paid in crypto, and maybe I want to tokenize 259 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.559 or create some NFTs and sell them and all that, right, 260 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:53.720 can stack up help me to do that? 261 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:59.240 Yeah? Absolutely, I mean, especially when it comes to receiving 262 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:03.279 and sending stable coins. You know, that's absolute bread and 263 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:09.759 butter for us. Right. So in the example of receiving crypto, uh, 264 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:13.200 you know, you can with our platform, you know, create 265 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.079 a you know, a payment link that looks just like 266 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:20.839 a traditional invoice where it has information saying hey, you know, 267 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.279 click here to pay on chain or you know with 268 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.559 US d C or U S d T or whatever 269 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:33.799 token of your choice, or even with my bank account. 270 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.680 And then you could even say, hey, you know, I 271 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.720 actually want to receive that as stable points, you know, 272 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:44.519 things like that. And then when it comes to sending funds, 273 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.359 it is very similar where you know, you have an 274 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.680 address book, you can select who. 275 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:50.920 It is. 276 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.880 You can include you know, an email confirming your payment 277 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:02.400 all that other kind of stuff, so very straightforward for 278 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.480 the payroll example. You we also have this concept of automations, 279 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.640 which is again something that you can only really do 280 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:14.119 in a non custodial way with smart accounts, at least 281 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:19.039 do it well. So you can say, hey, people can 282 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.759 pay in whatever token they want, but whenever my wallet 283 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:27.240 receives something that isn't USDC, converted to USDC, or hey, 284 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:32.880 when I receive USDC, convert it to a yield bearing 285 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:40.039 USDC or equivalent. And then so you can have your 286 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.720 on shade account you know, always be generating yield with 287 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.400 its funds, but whenever you send something, you know it 288 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.880 automatically converts back to a stable point. You know, things 289 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.400 like that to help kind of provide the same experience 290 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.359 that you get if you had a you know, a 291 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.720 money market fund or a high yield savings account where 292 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:05.720 you know, you don't care that in the background, you know, uh, 293 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:11.119 Fidelity is converting your money market fund to US dollars. Uh. 294 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.240 You just know I'm receiving four percent yield and I 295 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:16.559 can instantly send money out. 296 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.200 Now you're a lot of this is powered by small 297 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:25.559 smart contracts. So which blockchains are powering your infrastructure? And 298 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:27.839 also are their plans to add more? 299 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:33.680 Yeah, so we right now support EVM blockchains, so we 300 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.440 we support kind of right now what I would say 301 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.400 are kind of you know, the first wave of layer 302 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:47.960 two blockchains. You know, your base optimism arbitrum polygon which 303 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.119 is in the layer two but still and that's polygon 304 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.160 proof of stake, as well as of course the theory 305 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.880 you MAInet where the majority of our transactions actually take place. Uh, 306 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.799 and we are are adding in just a couple of 307 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:08.119 weeks a many new layer two blockchains and kind of 308 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:14.119 alternative ecosystems like Avalanche and so on. So right now 309 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.960 we just support EVM based blockchain so those are blockchains 310 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.599 in the Ethereum ecosystem, but we do have plans within 311 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:26.279 about the next year or so to support non EVM blockchains. 312 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:31.720 The reason we're supporting EVM blockchains first is in addition 313 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:35.680 to being kind of the ecosystem of choice for a 314 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:44.039 lot of institutional and enterprise players, Ethereum also has what 315 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:48.480 I would say is like the most mature security and 316 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:56.559 the most mature account abstraction technology from our perspective, and 317 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:58.240 of course we're experts in it, so of course we're 318 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:00.160 gonna you know, build with a thing that is our 319 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.039 own unique, you know, special advantage. Sure, but really the 320 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:07.759 etherory ecosystem is where we're starting. 321 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.799 Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And a lot of a 322 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:15.160 lot of blockchains, even that are like not smart contract driven, 323 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.480 they use the EVM in some way or the other, 324 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.400 like for example, the XRP Ledger. If I'm not mistaken, 325 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.799 I heard that they were integrating the EVM for side 326 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.160 chains and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, that definitely makes sense. 327 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:28.039 But you know, great to hear that you're going to 328 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.519 add Avalanche and I'm assuming Solana at some point maybe. 329 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.599 Well so, especially as the tools in Solon, I mean, 330 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.319 the developer tools Salona are already pretty good. But particularly 331 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.720 one great thing about Solana is that it has native 332 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.559 account abstraction, so they have a native version of doing 333 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:54.000 smart accounts. It's just different than what the Etherory ecosystem has, 334 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.400 which is you know, primarily based on ERSC fourth degree seven. 335 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.240 Of course, with the most recent Pectra upgrade, you know, 336 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:05.440 there's other things like e P seventy seven oh two, 337 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:10.160 which effectively allows you to have you know smart account 338 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:16.920 powers with your you know, existing private key. But the 339 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.240 power of ERC four degree seven and what we're building 340 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.640 is we don't need anything to change at the blockchain level. 341 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.559 It all happens within the e v M, so we 342 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.319 don't have to worry. We're not dependent on a blockchain, 343 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.079 you know, having any particular upgrade, which is really. 344 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.319 Nice, oh for sure. Now a big question in something 345 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.119 that people definitely want to know about is security. You know, 346 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.920 what are your security layers? Obviously you're using the blockchain, 347 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.400 smart contracts and so forth, but what prevents someone at 348 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:51.720 stack up from doing something fishy or on the business side, 349 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.079 if someone's using your platform, what prevents what layers are 350 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:58.319 security to prevent an employee from hacking into something and 351 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:01.000 stealing funds and so forth. Yeah. 352 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.440 Absolutely. I mean one of the things that I think 353 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:08.920 sets us apart on security is well, we don't just 354 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.480 focus on security but also on safety. And the nuance 355 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.000 is that security is about preventing bad actors from accessing 356 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:21.000 your money, whereas safety is about preventing losses period, whether 357 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.880 that is you know, by you unintentionally or from some 358 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:31.279 external threat. But I mean bigger picture, you know, we 359 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:35.000 totally understand managing crypto assets requires the highest level of 360 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:41.960 security without sacrificing usability. Of course, I think like usability 361 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.160 actually enhances safety overall, because, as I was saying before, 362 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.240 once your mental model of what's happening starts diverging from 363 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:54.440 what's actually happening, you know it, things can go back quickly. 364 00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:01.759 So our security architecture is based on self custodial control, 365 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:09.680 enterprise grade protection, and really the simplified user experience. So 366 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:13.839 this approach, of course ensures that your assets always remain 367 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.200 under your control while providing you know, advanced security features 368 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:24.279 beyond that businesses really require. So we have you know, 369 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:30.880 industry standard you know Soft two type two UH requirements 370 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.799 that you know, have policies about you know, what team 371 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:36.279 members can and can access. 372 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:37.279 UH. 373 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.039 It sets requirements around you know, Hey, this is how 374 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:43.680 we run our software development life cycle. UH. Here's how 375 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.799 we'll do monitoring and alerts. Here's how we'll do security 376 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.200 checks of our employees and things like that, which, uh 377 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.839 is a step further than most cryptonative companies go. But 378 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:02.960 I think it's extremely important not just for getting you know, 379 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:05.440 to win customers, because we could say, hey, look we 380 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.559 you know, we know what the right acronyms to use are. 381 00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:13.839 But really it's because uh, you know, I've worked on 382 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.920 safety critical systems my entire career, you know, uh, from 383 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.680 you know, rockets and experimental aircraft now into financial operations, 384 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:29.960 and a lot of the same like core discipline and 385 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:37.279 mindset really applies to uh, you know, keeping things safe. 386 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:39.720 Oh for sure. And who are some of your investors? 387 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:41.880 And is your service available globally? 388 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:47.559 Our service is available globally. We are self custody. Some 389 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:53.160 of the features right now are available only to US customers. 390 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.640 So for example, our you know, banking integration is only 391 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:01.559 available right now to US customers, but hopefully that will 392 00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:02.400 be opening up soon. 393 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:05.440 Uh. 394 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.400 Our investors include you know, some of the top people 395 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.279 in the space, uh, such as uh, you know one 396 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.599 k X. Uh we went through White Combinator, so of 397 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:16.839 course they are an investor. 398 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:17.839 Uh. 399 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.720 Good water. And then you know, like every early stage 400 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:25.599 crypto company, a long tale of you know, the typical 401 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:26.799