Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production. When it comes
to Israel Keys as Washington victims, I've never believed that
there were only four, and over time and by paying
great attention to how Keys described these murders, I feel
fairly confident that I know how Keys used semantics to
mislead the FBI without actually lying to them in those conversations.
There's an undercurrent of specificity throughout the course of his
FBI interviews and in his writings confiscated from his cell,
Keys essentially lays out the following about his Washington State victims.
There were two unrelated victims killed on separate incidents and
then disposed of using his boat. There was a male
female couple who were killed during the same incident. The
woman was killed first, and Keys accidentally killed the man
while trying to subdue him with a shovel. At least
one of his Washington victims was killed in the eastern
jurisdiction of the state, presumably in the area of Ellensburg.
As best we can tell from the files and audio
made available to us and my conversations with Agent Ted Halla,
this is all we know for certain about Washington's specific victims.
But by Halla's logic, there would have been at least
one more, because if Halla truly believes Keyes did not
commit any murders until after the army, the victim ruled
accidental would have to be a Washington State victim as well.
Keyes said that victim was a long long time ago. Additionally,
Keyes told us that his first murder went perfectly and
just as planned, which would rule out the male female
couple where he accidentally killed the male, and it would
rule out the person ruled accidental, where he didn't have
enough time to finish things up and had to leave
the victim out in the open. So either Halla is
right that Keys didn't murder until after the army, but
wrong that there are only four Washington victims, or Keys
killed people before leaving the army, or both. And but
also when looking at how Keys described his earlier homicides,
we have to be very careful about Washington State crimes
versus Washington area crimes because throughout media reports and even
in the FBI files, those two statements are used interchangeably,
but with someone as specific as Israel Keys, we cannot
assume they mean the same thing. This is true crime bullshit.
The serialized investigation into Israel Keys season seven, episode ten.
Undercurrent Israel Keys could be very specific about there only
being four Washington State victims while lying by omission about
victims in Oregon, Idaho, and Montana. Kutine being a great example.
If Keyes killed someone in Idaho while he was living
in Washington, he likely wouldn't consider that victim a Washington victim,
maybe a Washington area victim. But we know that Keyes
likes to mislead through details. This also means that Keyes's
description of killing a male female couple in his letter
to his brothers, wherein he discusses pine needles on the
ground and killing the woman near her car and then
burying them in a valley, does doesn't necessarily mean that
that's the same couple he included in his list of
Washington victims, or perhaps they were killed in Washington but
from another state, or vice versa. I think the FBI,
or at least Agent Haula, is severely limiting their search
for Keys as victims by taking him at his word
rather than carefully dissecting his words. As you well know
by now, we have not found a couple that matches
the FBI's narrative around the male female couple from Washington.
There is no missing or murdered couple in eastern Washington,
known to each other or not, who match the time
frame and description specifically set around hunters. I have searched
extensively for missing travelers, to unknown people who disappeared on
the same day, a missing couple who were later found dead,
and nothing matches what Key said about the Washington male
female couple and what Keys wrote in his letter. Now,
this is to say that there aren't any Many cases
don't make it on to national registers. Many cases get
little to no media coverage. Most missing sex workers never
even get reported. There are massive gaps in reporting that
we continually have to consider. But even then, when you
consider everything Keys has said and Hala has told us,
it's tough to find even one person who might make
up half of that couple. Specifically, when you consider this,
he did.
Speaker 2: Talk about at one point a bunch of his early
victims didn't get moved, so you know, the initial contact
with them was also the crime scene with them, so
I know later that kind of changes with the couriers
and stuff, But earlier on, I know he shared that
he wasn't moving them, you know, where he found him
is where the crime scene ended up being.
Speaker 1: Over the next few episodes will be exploring whether there
could be multiple male female couples killed in and around
Washington State between nineteen ninety nine, when Keys was first
stationed at Fort Lewis and the spring of two thousand
and seven, when Keys moved to Alaska. Because while we
cannot find a couple who matches all of the descriptions
we have of the male female couple, we can find
multiple couples who match either the description in the letter
or the details Keys told the FBI and the interrogations.
So considering these a separate incidents, here's what we know.
According to Keyes's statements to the FBI about the Washington
male female couple, they were killed in Washington State. The
woman was killed first, a man was accidentally killed by
a shovel. They were buried in a valley. According to
Keys's letter to his brothers that was confiscated from his
jail cell, the couple were killed in an area with
pine needles on the ground. The woman was killed near
her car. Keys could hear cars below on the highway below,
as in not in a valley. When considering these as
separate events or as a single event with misremembered or
misstated details, we can come up with five couples who
could match one or both sets of information, and it's
not far fetched to believe that Keys would have killed
multiple male female couples in this time period. We've already
gone over at nauseum the number of times Keyes talks
about stalking, fantasizing about, and looking for couples to kill.
So today we're going to discuss just two of those
potential couples because the second case it took us on
an unexpected turn that not only connected to a separate
Keys murder victim, but coincided with some other research we
were doing and a never before heard story about Keys
from one of his friends. We can't discuss couples without
discussing Cami and Eugene, who have long been on my
radar as the or at least a male female couple
potentially abducted by Keys. And while we look at the
possibility of there being other or different victims in terms
of making a case for missing or murdered couples, Came
and Gene are still the most compelling to me. And
while I have no major updates in their case. I
did notice another small detail that's worth mentioning, and it
came to me in the strangest and perhaps most kismet way.
My partner is not huge into true crime other than
the occasional date line episode. He knows very little about
Israel Keys. In fact, he never made it past season one,
episode four of this podcast. It was too much for him,
too dark, too sad. And I say all this because
that's what made it so bizarre to come home over
the weekend to find him watching a dateline episode on
Brooke Wilburger from the Name Is forty five. He of
course had no idea who Brooke Wilburger was and probably
doesn't know what the Name is forty five is, so
for him, it was just another episode of dateline. As
you may recall, Jane and Cammy were from a town
not far from where Brooke Wilberger was abducted, and it
was the same newspaper that covered all three of their disappearances,
first Camy and Jane and then several years later, Brooke.
And so we posited that Brooke most likely ended up
on Keys's computer when he was searching that newspaper for
updates on Cami and Gene. Well, as I stood there
watching Dateline over my partner's shoulder, something hit me like
a ton of bricks. Brook's mom is named Cammi. Brook's
case was more recent and received much more media coverage
because of the nature of both her disappearance and the
eventual uncovering of her murder, and the fact that local
law enforcement took her disappearance much more more seriously than
Cammi's and Jeans. So had Keys done a search in
twenty eleven for some version of Missing Oregon, Cammi Brooke
Wilburger's case would have come up immediately because Cammy Wilburger
was the family spokesperson in her daughter's media coverage, and
her name is in just about every single article about
Brook's disappearance. No matter how long I've been doing this,
it never ceases to surprise me when we discover missing
or murdered people who never made it onto NamUs or
the Charlie Project or any other database with unsolved homicides.
So it was all the more surprising when we discovered
the two thousand and two double homicide of Terry Palm
and Angela Walsh, A Spokane, Washington couple who disappeared the
morning after birthday party for Angela at the Boulevard Motel
and Spokane. Terry and Angela had been together for seven
years when they were reported missing on December fifteenth of
two thousand and two, just five days after they were
last seen after a night of partying with friends at
the Boulevard Motel. Terry was forty years old, five foot
eight and weighed one hundred forty five pounds. Angela was
thirty four years old, five foot four and weighed just
one hundred ten pounds. Angela was raised Mormon, but by
all accounts, was no longer practicing at the time of
her disappearance. She had a fourteen year old daughter from
a previous relationship. Like Angela, Terry was born and raised
in Spokane, and the couple were in the midst of
a rough patch. They had been hanging out with meth
users and were allegedly both using and selling meth, and
just two weeks before their deaths, the pair had moved
into Angela's mother's and stepdad's house because someone had had
reportedly broken into their apartment and tried to kill Angela,
and since that break in and until the night before
they disappeared, they didn't give their new address to anyone.
No one knew where they were living or how to
find them. On the night of the party, Terry and
Angela had their friend April drive them to the Boulevard motel.
In fact, it was April who would be the last
known person to actually see the couple alive. She would
later tell police that the morning after the party, she
saw Terry and Angela walking north from the motel along
the Spokane River through People's Park, a hiking area on
a large peninsula surrounded by Lattau Creek, Hangman Creek, and
the Spokane River. Directly north of People's Park is the
Riverside Memorial Cemetery, and the park is connected by a
footbridge to the Centennial Trail Park to the east over
the Spokane River, part of the Greater Riverside State Park,
a massive state park that runs from downtown Spokane to
the Spokane Reservation, almost twenty miles away. It's unclear where
the couple were headed that morning, because they were living
just two miles directly east of the motel, just a
couple blocks off of Sunset Boulevard at around the same
time that April saw Terry and Angela walking through the park.
Angela's mother received a phone call from Angela, reportedly at
seven forty a m. Stating that she needed her to
drop her daughter off at school because she didn't have
a ride and wouldn't make it in time. And after
that call, Angela and Terry were never heard from again.
For three months, local law enforcement and the community searched
for the couple. Local media covered the cases frequently. Search
and rescue spent days searching the Spokane River near where
they were last seen and the surrounding areas with no luck.
Polygraphs were performed on the partygoers and both missing persons families.
There were no strong leads, and despite the previous attempt
on Angela's life, the most reported theory was that the
couple fell into the river. Our foya for their cases
was denied based on its still being an open and
active investigation, so it's unclear what exactly the police were
thinking behind closed doors, but we do know that all
of their families, as well as April, passed their polygraphs.
On March fifteenth of two thousand three, three months after
the couple disappeared, a woman walking her dog through Riverside
State Park, more than seven miles from where the couple
was last seen. Found Angela's body floating in the Spokane River,
about one mile south of seven Mile Bridge. Her death
was ruled a homicide, but Terry was nowhere to be found.
Police wondered had Terry killed his girlfriend and then disappeared.
But six months later, on September nine, kayakers found Terry's
body in the Spokane River, just south of the nine
Mile Dam and about five miles north from where Angela's
body was found. Reports indicated that Terry's body had likely
been under water for the entire nine months that he
was missing. At first, police believed it was possible that
Terry and Angela died by murder suicide, that Terry killed
Angela and then later himself. That is until Terry's death
was also ruled a homicide. Autopsies would indicate that both
Angela and Terry died by violent homicide. Specifics have never
been made public, but violent homicide can refer to stabbing, beating,
or strangulation. Now, at first glance, it would seem most
likely that whomever tried to kill Angela two weeks prior
to her Debt was likely the same person to eventually
kill her aunt Terry. Unfortunately, we don't know who that
person was, let alone if Angela was even able to
identify them. But if rumors are to be believed, this
attempted murder was in response to the couple selling bad meth. However,
police didn't seem to have tunnel vision. They looked into
all angles and there are some pretty big Keys factors
at play here, including one you don't even know about yet.
Terry Palm and Angela Walsh disapp appeared on December tenth
of two thousand and two, and at the time, Keyes
had just returned from a trip to Maine for his
father's memorial service. Unfortunately, we don't have the exact dates
that Keys was in Maine. We only know that the
service itself was on November twenty fifth, and that his
father died on the thirteenth. We also know that Keys
took extended bereavement leave from work and traveled to eastern
Washington at some point during this time. Following John Jeffrey's
memorial service, we can't definitively place Keys anywhere until August
twenty eighth of two thousand and three, although we know
at this time he was working Monday through Friday for
the Tribe, and only occasionally taking a long weekend off
to troll or commit crimes. Spokane is sixty eight miles
or about a ninety minute drive equidistantly from both Calville
and High Hunters. It's the closest major city and airport
to both towns. It's a city that keys knew well
had been to quite often, and allegedly even done construction
working when it comes to Angela and Terry. Interestingly, Angela's
body was found floating near the Wilbur trailhead of the
Centennial Trail in Riverside State Park, not far from a
park toilet and boat ramp. And I'm told that while
both Angela and Terry were found downstream from where they
were last seen again seven and twelve miles downstream, respectively,
the Spokane River moves at a glacial pace, particularly in winter,
when it barely moves at all. And more importantly, between
where they were last seen and where they were found
is the Riverside State Park Bowl and Pitcher, a naturally
formed pool in the river located between two extremely shallow
rock banks inches deep a max for two bodies to
pass through this area, they would have to pass over
two rock beds separated by a bowl with a circular
flow pattern, and the area is incredibly trafficked because there's
a campground, suspension bridge, and overlook there. According to friend
of the show Michael Beers, who was a former search
and rescuer, it would be nearly impossible for one of
them to pass through this bowl and Pitcher let alone both.
So it's highly likely, if not certain, that Angela and
Terry went into the Spokane somewhere north of the Bowl
and Pitcher And that brings me to the very distinct
differences in Angela's and Terry's recoveries. Angela's body was found
three months after they went missing. She was floating in
the river. It's unclear whether she was clothed or not,
but her state of decomposition, which was described as advanced,
made it clear she had likely not been submerged or
perhaps even in the river for the three months that
she was missing. Her body had been exposed to the elements,
Whereas Terry was found nine months after they went missing,
and his decomposition indicated that he had been completely submerged
for the entirety of his disappearance, So that and the
significant distance between the two bodies suggests that they were
either disposed in different areas and or in different ways. Additionally,
Terry's body was found just south of the Nine Mile Dam,
a hydroelectric dam located in the northeast corner of Riverside
State Park, and that is where someone named Nathan comes
into play. Now, I'm going to give you a little
look behind.
Speaker 3: The scenes.
Speaker 1: Because I obtained what I consider to be very critical
information from some one who served in the Army with
Keys and considered himself one of Keys's closest friends at
that time. In fact, when Keys told the FBI who
from the army to interview, he named Nathan third, only
after his squad leader and Matthew. Nathan and I have
exchanged e mails back and forth and have been trying
to make a zoom interview happen for weeks now. This
is something that happens a lot. People want to share
and want to interview, but then back out or go
quiet or reschedule because they realize how overwhelming dredging up
this specific past can be, or what it means to
become a spokesperson or forever part of this type of
narrative to be publicly linked to a serial killer and
part of his story forever. Nathan and I both appear
on an upcoming podcast about Keys produced by a b
C News, and after our interviews, they reached out to
tell me that Nathan had some very interesting things to
say and that I should get in touch with him immediately,
and so I did. Because some of the information Nathan
has shared is pertinent to this case and even more
so to another. I'm going to share that with you
now while still remaining hopeful that we can get on
zoom at some point soon. But before we get to Nathan,
we have to discuss a woman he's never even met, Tammy.
Speaker 4: So in one instance where you killed somebody, it appeared
in these news as if it were an accident. So
that's got to be kind of well in power. Well, right.
Speaker 5: I never took that for granted, though, because I knew.
I've known for a long time, because of the things
that I've done that have been in the news.
Speaker 4: I've known that.
Speaker 5: Like what you read that happened, and what I know
that actually happened, sometimes it's almost not even recognizable really,
So I I never took it for granted, I always
assumed that if a body was found that they were
somebody was gonna be after me for it. I was
always prepared for that, and I always had I always
thought I had alibis and stuff like that was always in.
Speaker 4: The back of my mind.
Speaker 5: Kind of hard to keep track of after a while.
Speaker 4: You know, but you anticipate if they found a body,
here's what my story's gonna do.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: Were there any close calls where they found a body
that you were prepared, kind of prepared for them.
Speaker 5: Well, like I say, I don't know if it was
a close call, I don't know. I don't I know
that I know that what was made public, it never
seemed like it was close to me.
Speaker 4: Mm a body recovered and you were worried they were
gonna come in to ask questions about it. Yeah? Was
that only one time?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Did you consider that a mistake on your party somehow
that the body was recovered?
Speaker 5: Well, I don't back then, Yeah, yeah, it was a mistake.
Speaker 4: What happened where you rushed?
Speaker 5: Did you not do something the way you lanned?
Speaker 6: No, I was.
Speaker 5: It was kind of the same situation as.
Speaker 4: As the couriers.
Speaker 5: I just wasn't in a position to get rid of
it right away, and uh, so I decided to try
and make it look I mean, it was already gonna
be assumed that it was an accident and uh of
some sort. And uh, my concern was that the body
would be found before it had decomposed enough.
Speaker 4: But how long ago was that?
Speaker 5: That was a while ago.
Speaker 4: But the body so wait, I don't get I don't
get that your concern with the body wouldn't have been
decomposed enough. That makes it sound like you went back or.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying if it had been found right away,
it probably wouldn't have been thought to be an accident.
Speaker 1: Anymore, as I'm sure you'll recall. In a January ninth,
twenty thirteen interview, Tammy told the FBI that shortly after
she and Keys began dating, her neighbor's husband went missing
while on a hike. That man's remains were later found
and his death was eventually ruled accidental, but Tammy told
the FBI that Israel was gone in the entire day
and night that this neighbor's husband went missing, something Tammy
later thought was unusual. Now we don't know the man's
identity as it's redacted in the FBI files, and we
don't think nor have any reason to believe that this
man was or could be, Terry Palm. But we think
this man could be the death ruled accidental that Keys
discussed with the FBI, and that is where Nathan and
Terry Palm come in. Nathan and Keyes were stationed together
at Fort Lewis and in Egypt, and Nathan's interview with
the FBI is one of the more robust interviews, which
we'll dig deeper into in a future episode. But one
thing that didn't come up in that FBI interview but
did come up in his interview with ABC was a
conversation that he had with Keys shortly after Keys and
Tammy started dating. Nathan said that in late two thousand
or early two thousand and one, Keyes told him an
acquaintance of Tammis went missing, that Keys and Tammy had
participated in several searches for this missing man, and that
Keyes talked about his disappearance quite often, and at one
point Keyes told Nathan that he suspected that this missing
man's remains would be found in a hydro electric dam
because it's a place where a body could be submerged
for a prolonged period of time. Nathan went on to
say that he recalled that this man was eventually found
near a hydro electric dam and that is death was
ruled accidental. We believe we are very close to identifying
this man, and while we don't think he is connected
to Terry Palm, Keysa's suspicion surrounding his death certainly does.
Harry Palm was found very near a hydro electric dam
and had been submerged in the Spokane River for close
to nine months, and this was only about two years
after Tammy's neighbor went missing. So at first we thought
this was a potential link between Keys and Terry Palm
and Angela Walsh, but also a great lead in uncovering
Tammy's neighbor. But then we zoomed out a little and
started looking into hydro electric dams and we discovered a
lot for one. Hydro electric dams have quietly been with
us throughout this entire investigation. There's one on the Racket
River in Tupper Lake. There's one in the Racket River
on Blake Falls Reservoir. There's one on the Lower Netchez
where Mark Oldberry was camping there's one on Ecclutna Lake
where Keys talked about trolling for victim. There's one on
Lake Pandora and Coutiney. There's one on Flaming Gorge Reservoir
near Green River, and the list, believe it or not,
just goes on and on, and then we started looking
into why this would be a good place to dispose
of a body. According to pacificcore dot COM's resources on
hydroelectric dams and safety areas above the dam flow can
pull swimmers in and drag them below the water with
such force that they cannot escape. Air trapped in those
areas reduces buoyancy to a point where even swimmers wearing
flotation devices can be sucked below the surface due to
intense pressure. It's incredibly dangerous to swim below the surface
above the dam flow, meaning it would be dangerous to
search this area for a body below the dam. Water
plunging over the spillway creates a violent recirculating current the
trap's objects and people below the surface, making escape nearly impossible.
So if you were Israel Keys and not in a
shed in your own driveway with all the tools you'd
need to submerge a body in water. A hydroelectric dam
would be an easy option for you. And like Keys
told Nathan, it's a place where a body could be
submerged for a very long time.
Speaker 3: The wind has done a fish posts.
Speaker 6: The city's the seas the cause of drown Honeynee.
Speaker 3: The children are swimming from the top of the trees.
Speaker 6: Crowds of umbrellas are standing masputly.
Speaker 3: Americas sewing, holding on to her TV even if the
water is rising past and knees. He comes the river.
Speaker 6: The common a strong, but you can't keep bad above
there's trouble waters.
Speaker 3: He comes the river over the flames. Sometimes he got
a bird a sum well.
Speaker 1: This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Holmark,
with additional research by Kathleen s and Jordan Taylor. Sources
include NamUs, the Charlie Project, pacificcore dot com, low Impact,
hydro dot Org, damn Safety dot Org, the Washington State
Digital Archives, and The Spokesman Review. This episode was made
possible by the following Patreon producers, Amy Basel, Kendall, c
Heather Horton, Whedon, Sherry d Kristin Hoffman, Dale Axton, Stephanie Taylor,
Lydio Rodarte, Quail Drew Ipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole
and Dennis Henry, Gillian Natale, Lana Holiday, Rural Juror, Tuesday Woodworth,
Zach Ignottowitz, Warren, Kathleen s and n at L Casey, Jensen, Richardson,
sc Benjamin Choppafong, Trista, Nicole, Ashfish, Becky c. Pink genj
Corey d, Robin Carroll, Jordan m Kate Lusier, John Comery,
Kathy Nation, Carried, Jordan t Bethany, Lauren Ferry, Emily Payne,
Tory Meyers, Sabrina Abbott, Meghan Edmund, Meghan Dagel, Ashley Cooplan,
Michael Randall, d Wayne c Jen, Justin Runyon and Trixie.
Thank you to two Crime, Bullshit's newest Patreon supporter, Lindsey
w To support the investigation, go to Patreon dot com,
slash Studio Both And. This episode included music by Sarah Wife, Sarage, Terramisanov,
William Hellfire and Radical Face with featured music by Patrick Watson.
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