WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:33.079 Oh, bel there, Trigger Warren. 2 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:37.719 This podcast may include explicit content that will take you 3 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:38.320 out of your. 4 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:40.479 Comfort zone and make you question reality. 5 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:42.840 Listeners, discretion is advised. 6 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.560 Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is Blood 7 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:06.680 Ties Part three and I am, of course really excited 8 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:09.239 about this one. We left it on kind of a 9 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.359 cliffhanger in the last one, a little bit about what 10 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.439 we were going to talk about today, and it's some 11 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:21.719 more of the inconsistencies with John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy. 12 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:28.120 And of course we have Colby on this episode again. Hello, 13 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:29.959 how are you Colby? 14 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:31.480 Tired? 15 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:37.599 Tired of me? Tired of life? Are you feeling suicidal? 16 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:40.159 Are you having direk thoughts? 17 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:46.319 You should work for suicide hot line like Ted Bundy. 18 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:51.560 Yeah, you'd get off on it. So I'm going to 19 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:57.040 start us off with a quote as usual. So the 20 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:02.079 quote is quote like, you have a job. I have 21 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:06.159 a job. He has a job. His job is killing people. 22 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.840 That's what he was trained to do. In quote that 23 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:16.159 comes from Cynthia Hayden, a djur in the Richard Ramirez trial, 24 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:23.960 commenting on the convicted nightstalker. And I'm I mean, how 25 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.000 can you sum it up. 26 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.159 Any better than that did she say this too? 27 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:31.120 I don't know. It just says Adjur in the Richard 28 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.879 Ramirez trial commenting on him. 29 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:35.159 Where did you get the quote? 30 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:41.840 Program to Kill? I feel like, yeah, I was gonna say, 31 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.080 I don't feel like David McGowan would put it in 32 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:45.919 there if it was a fake quote. 33 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.759 Right, And I'm sure he said where it came from. 34 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.599 I was just curious. I'm like, what what the context 35 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:52.439 of the quote was. 36 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.960 Yeah, I don't know, but it's interesting to say the least. 37 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.280 I feel like in the Program Him to Kill series, 38 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:05.960 I spent a lot of time trying to set the 39 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:09.759 ground for what we're going to talk about today, and 40 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:14.159 I think what people were waiting to hear in the 41 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.840 Program to Kill series is what we're going to talk 42 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:17.439 about today. 43 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.479 Well, let's go get them so they could hear this. 44 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:24.479 Yeah. So I want to first start us off taking 45 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:27.240 a little bit closer look at some of the weirdness 46 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:32.599 with John Wayne Gacy and as a teenager, John Wayne 47 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.080 Gacy worked in Las Vegas at both a mortuary and 48 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.879 as an ambulance attendant. At the mortuary, it was said 49 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.120 that he had a habit of sleeping in the embalming 50 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:49.360 room amongst the corpses, and he was fired after some 51 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.199 of those corpses were found to have been partially undressed, 52 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.120 which they don't really tell you for sure in any 53 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.719 documentary of I've ever watched at least if John Wayne 54 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:06.120 Gacy was into necrophilia. But just like the rest of 55 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.639 our cast of characters, it looks like he definitely was. 56 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.280 Maybe he just liked skin on skin, cuddles. 57 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:18.240 With cold stiff Maybe that's why he was in there 58 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:21.120 because the dead bodies had cold stiff ones. 59 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.399 Is that how it works? 60 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.439 He was gay? After you die? Did your dick still 61 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:28.000 stand up? 62 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:29.800 I doubt it. 63 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:31.279 You think it's flaccid. 64 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:33.079 I'll let you know when I died. 65 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:39.120 Well, I'm just saying clearly he was into necrophilia, or 66 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.720 he was molesting the dead bodies. I don't know if 67 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:45.959 he was actually fucking him because he was gay, he 68 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.680 could have fucked the dead ass though. 69 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:50.319 Why were they wearing clothes anyway? Do you usually have 70 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.319 clothes on in the morgue. 71 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.079 In a mortuary? Isn't that where they get him dressed 72 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.079 up to like for funerals? 73 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:00.120 Okay, so it wasn't a morgan. It was a mortuary 74 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:01.120 that makes sense. 75 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:05.639 So maybe, yeah. I mean, can you imagine all those 76 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:10.519 people's dead loved ones getting molested by jaycy after they're did? 77 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:13.040 I can if you want me to. 78 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.279 So. In the nineteen sixties, John lived in Waterloo, Iowa, 79 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:25.040 where he owned several businesses, including four restaurants, a clothing 80 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.360 design firm, and a motel. During that period of his life, 81 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.199 he joined the j CS and quickly forged a bond 82 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:38.759 with the man who soon became the local chapter president. 83 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.399 This particular JC chapter was known at the time to 84 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:49.480 be involved in prostitution, pornography, and various other crimes of vice. 85 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:57.439 The jc's, also known as the United States Junior Chamber, 86 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:02.920 is a nonprofit or organization that focuses on leadership training 87 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:07.120 and civic engagement for people between the ages of eighteen 88 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.199 and forty. I don't even know if that's still a thing. 89 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:12.040 So is it like the Rotary Club? 90 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.639 I guess so. I mean it was the sixties. I 91 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:19.879 don't think there is such a thing as j c's anymore. 92 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.759 But so he's getting involved. 93 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.439 Interesting how gay cy jc's. 94 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.720 He puts the gay and gay seeds. It's gross, I know, 95 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:37.800 But so this particular chapter of the Jac's was involved 96 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:41.040 in prostitution, pornography, and various other crimes. 97 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:46.519 So I mean is this child because if they're just 98 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:51.240 like involved in prostitution and pornography, other crimes, advice that 99 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:54.639 might be like gambling Black America gambling or. 100 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.759 Yeah, I mean it's not really specific on. 101 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.519 That, but I mean we've been talking so much in 102 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:04.959 these series, in your past series about child pornography rings. 103 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.959 Mm hm, so I just the distinction isn't made there, So. 104 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:11.959 Yeah, it's not, but I mean, you get we could 105 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:17.639 probably use our imagination with what that really because it's 106 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.920 a nonprofit organization and we know what John Wayne Gacy 107 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.279 was getting up to later in his life, so I 108 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:28.920 can only imagine even if it was like regular prostitution 109 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:33.759 and pornography, though it's like the CIA and like organized 110 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.800 crime and shit, it's just I mean, two birds of 111 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:42.920 a feather really, So, a local prosecutor identified Gacy's motel, 112 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:49.839 managed by his newfound friend, as the hub of those activities. 113 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:55.120 According to the prosecutor, the motel was a front for 114 00:07:55.240 --> 00:08:00.480 a gay and straight prostitution ring. Again, it doesn't spe 115 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:05.000 on kids or adults, but even if it was adults, 116 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:10.879 I mean he was clearly into some fucking shady shit. Yeah, 117 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:16.279 and Gacy was in the habit of hiring many young 118 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.680 people of both sexes to work at his businesses. He 119 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.519 also reportedly set up what was described as a social 120 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:31.519 club in his basement recreation room, which he kept well 121 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.720 stocked with drugs and alcohol to supply to his numerous 122 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:40.720 underage guests. He was also said by those who knew 123 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:45.200 him at the time to control his wife and to 124 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:52.159 openly offer her sexual services to friends and colleagues, because 125 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.000 I think it was a sham of a marriage anyways. 126 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.279 And if he was into all this other stuff, and 127 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.360 he a lot of his victims were underage, maybe he 128 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.679 was like luring them back to the house with like 129 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:10.080 drugs and alcohol, kind of Dohmer style. I don't know, 130 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:15.720 but he was clearly into like some next level shit. 131 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.679 Well, and this is interesting because all of the narrative 132 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:23.519 I've ever read, you know, and the low hanging mainstream 133 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:24.919 true crime stuff. 134 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:29.799 It was always an emphasis on young men, you know, 135 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:34.120 not men, but teenage boys. And this is saying he 136 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:35.960 had both sexes work in his. 137 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.440 Businesses well, and then he set up this social club, 138 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:42.679 and I mean. 139 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.039 He also seemed to take offense. It was something you mentioned. 140 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.240 I think in the last episode that people would refer 141 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:52.039 to him as gay. 142 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.039 He would correct them and say he was bisexual. 143 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.960 He could have been. You know what the crazy thing is, 144 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.679 like if a lot of the murders weren't really him, 145 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.440 then there's probably a bunch more victims we never found 146 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.480 out about, Like he could have killed other girls and 147 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.879 like whoever. But they only found the bodies that were 148 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:17.159 under his house. 149 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.679 Thirty three or right to shitload of bodies for under one. 150 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:25.519 House, No I know. So On March eleventh, nineteen sixty eight, 151 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:32.279 Donald Borhe's junior, the son of a JC and former 152 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:38.159 Iowa state representative, gave a statement to police alleging that 153 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:49.960 Gaysey had assaulted and sodomized him. So he assaulted and 154 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:57.600 sodomized the son of one of the oh the former 155 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:03.759 Iowa state representative and he was a JC. So you 156 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.120 know how they do in like those weird political circles, 157 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:09.879 like they passed their kids around and shit, do you 158 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.559 think that's something like this because it said he was 159 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.440 into like it was his motel was like a cover 160 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:19.919 and like he was clearly having a social club at 161 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.840 his house. And weird stuff like that. He's involved in politics. 162 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:27.720 And then he so you're basically asking if the father 163 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:29.519 may have been compliant. 164 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:34.279 Yeah, could be, or do you think this was. 165 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:40.000 I mean, he either had access to the kid, whether 166 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:44.320 the father knew about it or not. But yeah, speculating, 167 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:46.240 we do know that goes on. 168 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:49.480 Mm hmm. That's what's just kind of came to my 169 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:55.279 mind because he, like we said before, he met the 170 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.639 first lady and like was so respected and shit like that, 171 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.399 and like maybe he's just let him do it. I 172 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:06.919 don't know. But in early May, Gaysey was indided by 173 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:11.399 a grand jury, though no further action was taken for 174 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.840 several months about the assault asotomy of this JC kid. 175 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:21.120 On September twelfth, John made a court appearance at which 176 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:26.480 he was ordered to submit to a psychiatric examination at 177 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:34.639 the Psychopathic Hospital of the State University of Iowa Jesus Christ. 178 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:40.519 While in custody, there, he spoke freely to investigators of 179 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:48.600 wholesale corruption among the city's elite. He talked of gambling, prostitution, pornography, 180 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:54.480 wife swapping, and the corruption and complicity of local police. 181 00:12:55.279 --> 00:13:00.679 He supplied the names of numerous j c's police personnel 182 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:07.279 and various other prominent individuals who were involved in criminal enterprises. 183 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.399 So that's why I think. 184 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:12.360 A snitch. 185 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.840 Yeah, he is a fucking snitch. But the thing is 186 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:21.080 he's talking about all this, and then his motel has 187 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:24.679 found out to be upfront for like gay sex and 188 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.639 straight sex or whatever, and he's got all these politician friends. 189 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.039 I think that whoever the dad was of that kid 190 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.559 let him do it, and maybe Gasey did something to 191 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.960 piss him off, and then he was like, I'm telling 192 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.600 everybody you raped my son. 193 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.039 What do you think I mean, that's possible. 194 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:49.559 Because they do what do we always talk about, They 195 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:54.600 use kids as blackmail in political circles. So who's to 196 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.919 say that he didn't get a hold of this kid 197 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.480 his dad let him get train on and then they 198 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.840 fucking took a video or something of him because he's 199 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:11.960 involved in gambling, prostitution, pornography, wife swapping, whatever. It just 200 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.120 seems like this could have been a case of like 201 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.399 some of this stuff we're always talking about in the 202 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.440 conspiracy theory community, because that was the first time he 203 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:21.200 ever got busted, and. 204 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:25.080 It's weird that it's on the record too. Did you 205 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.200 think that would piece of evidence like this would be 206 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.080 well known. Of course, we know they do sweep. 207 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:32.480 It under the rug. 208 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.480 When brought before a judge, Gaisey threw himself at the 209 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:42.759 mercy of the court and entered a guilty plea on 210 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:48.559 the assault asodomy of this kid. On December third, nineteen 211 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.960 sixty eight. He was sentenced to a ten year term. 212 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:57.399 He served less than two of those years, earning parole 213 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:02.720 on June eighteenth, nineteen seventy. While in prison, he somehow 214 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:07.639 managed to always have money, cigars and civilian shirts, all 215 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.600 difficult commodities to attain for most prisoners. 216 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.360 So he had somebody giving him some commissary. 217 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.039 Yeah or well, and you know what I always say, 218 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.600 if you want to know if they're involved in some shit, 219 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.840 just look at their sentence. He was sentenced to ten 220 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.679 years and he served less than two, and then it 221 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.320 was really straight back out onto the street. And somebody 222 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:34.919 was giving him all this money and shit while he 223 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.080 was in there. So clearly he's not just a psycho. 224 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.720 To me, this doesn't say I'm a low nut psycho 225 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:48.679 serial killer. This screams I'm on a team. 226 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:51.000 Yeah. 227 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:56.200 And according to some reports, Gacy received electro shock and 228 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:01.879 a version therapy while incarcerated, allegedly to cure him of 229 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:09.799 his homosexuality, which is in American Horror Story Season two 230 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.600 as uh huh. You remember when they take what's her 231 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.759 name and they do a version therapy and they do 232 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.519 something they make her throw up every time she watches 233 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:27.440 gay porn or something. And I said this earlier on 234 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:32.120 the episode that we just did that. I think we're 235 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.960 all living in one of the most interesting seasons of 236 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.240 American Horror Story. 237 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:44.120 It's got it all aliens, pedophiles. Mm hmm. 238 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:45.679 I mean, I think it is. 239 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.399 But pedophile aliens maybe, mm hmmm. Season twist. 240 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:55.559 So, just eight months after his release, he was again arrested, 241 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:01.200 this time for disorderly conduct despite the vibe violation. Just 242 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:08.839 eight months after that, he was released from parole. Another 243 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.839 eight months after that, on the summer solstice of nineteen 244 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:18.319 seventy two, he was again arrested and charged with aggravated 245 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:24.599 battery and reckless conduct. Gaysey had allegedly offered a young 246 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.880 man a ride on June seventh, identified himself as a 247 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:33.799 police officer, and then attempted to handcuff the boy. Failing 248 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.880 in that endeavor, Gaysey had then clubbed him on the 249 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.039 back of his neck, kicked him, and then pursued him 250 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:47.319 with his car and struck him down curiously. When they 251 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.200 arrested him and took him in for running this kid 252 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:56.759 down with his car, they scanned his fingerprints, and his 253 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:02.119 fingerprints were on file with local police under the alias 254 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:10.319 Colonel Gaysey Colonel like Michael Aquino type shit. Yeah, So 255 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:12.880 I don't know. I thought that was interesting. 256 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:17.160 Well, and it's weird too, because he did I don't 257 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.440 know if it was like volunteer work with the police, 258 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.359 but he had established a relationship with the local police 259 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.119 and did ride alongs and stuff, so maybe that was 260 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:27.640 just like. 261 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.440 Oh, you think they did that as like a joke 262 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:34.880 or like a nickname Gasey, Yeah, nickname, whether jokingly or otherwise, 263 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:36.480 I don't know. 264 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:38.000 It could be something to that effect. 265 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.519 Well. I also thought, and you know this because I 266 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.359 talk about it all the time, all the eights eight 267 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:51.200 months after he was released from parole, eight months after 268 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:56.240 that he was arrested again, I thought there was another 269 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:56.960 aid in there. 270 00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.440 Maybe he kicked him in clubbed him eight times. 271 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.799 Yeah, But anyways, I always find the eight to be 272 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:07.359 really oh yeah. Eight months after his release. Eight months 273 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.039 after that release from parole, Oh so yeah, there is 274 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.720 three eighths in there. So anyways, he continues his murder 275 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:20.880 spree and gets arrested again, and while his home was 276 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:26.240 being searched, Gasey was taken to Holy Family Hospital for 277 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:31.160 a medical examination, allegedly due to complaints of chest pains. 278 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:36.680 Immediately upon his release from the hospital, John read and 279 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:43.200 signed a Miranda waiver and began confessing to the fucking murders. 280 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:48.200 One of his first questions to police was quote who 281 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.880 else do you have in the station? There are others 282 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:56.799 involved in quote. Gacy was then asked if the others 283 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.680 who were involved were directly or in directly involved, to 284 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:08.039 which he responded, quote directly, they participated in quote. Asked 285 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:13.240 who these others might be, he answered simply, quote my 286 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:18.680 associates in quote. He was also asked where one of 287 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.839 the victims, Rob Peaste, was, to which he answered, quote, 288 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.039 I don't know. I didn't transport him in quote. When 289 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:33.480 asked who did he, he replied, quote I can't say 290 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:39.039 in quote. So when he finally starts talking about the 291 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:45.720 murders and admitting to them, he says, there are others 292 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.759 involved who else do you have in the station. There 293 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:54.279 were people who were directly involved that participated. He referred 294 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:59.279 to them as my associates. And he said the victim 295 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.400 rob p he didn't even know about him, and he 296 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.839 didn't transport him, quote unquote, and then he couldn't say 297 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:09.880 who was working with him. Do you think this is 298 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:14.119 bullshit because Gasey was a horrible liar, or do you 299 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.680 think this is genuine and there were people working with him. 300 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:21.599 I mean, one thing that con validated is he obviously, 301 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.839 just from what you were saying a little bit earlier, 302 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:30.559 he was protected from on high by somebody. And it 303 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.599 also makes me wonder that being the case. He blabbed 304 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.880 the first time they took him in mm. 305 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:40.920 Hmm about all this other stuff that he was into with, 306 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.400 you know, upper echelon of his. 307 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.680 Community, wife swapping. 308 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.519 And then well you know that one's not illegal, but 309 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.599 the prostitution and the pornography, depending on what kind of 310 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.920 pornography it was, but black market gambling in the legs. 311 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.160 But you know, he's blabbing about that and then he 312 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.400 starts doing this. Almost makes me wonder why he got 313 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:08.240 to live up until his execution. But they never sent 314 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.960 like a Jack Ruby type character after him to just 315 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:12.240 pop him and shut him up. 316 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.759 I mean, does that make you think he was lying? 317 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.640 It doesn't necessarily mean he's lying. It's just like maybe 318 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:24.960 he said enough or left enough out of what he 319 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.559 was saying, because he would say what was going on, 320 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:32.799 but he wouldn't drop names. He just alluded to the 321 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.799 fact that he didn't work alone, he had associates, YadA, YadA. 322 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.279 It's just strange to me because usually, like you get 323 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.960 these guys, even when they, you know, spill the beans 324 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.559 on everything they've done, they won't finger. 325 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.559 Others and they won't leave you alive usually, or they'll 326 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.640 suicide you and take you somewhere. 327 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:01.319 Well, you would figure that like Epstein protocol, but I 328 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:01.640 don't know. 329 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.759 Look at Charlie Manson, despite what we all think may 330 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.640 have happened or may not have happened that night, he 331 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.960 had a code of not being a snitch. 332 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.000 That he took rather seriously. Whether that was just part 333 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:15.480 of his role or whatever. 334 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.759 But this is it just kind of Casey's always been 335 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.480 one of those that is a part of all this 336 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:27.519 stuff going on. But he's got or he's lacking certain markers, 337 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:31.200 like he doesn't have military experience. He's one of the 338 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.119 only ones out of all these major cigarette serial killers. 339 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.400 But he does have political yeah, political, and you know, 340 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:43.880 definitely organized shoulders with the mob, the police, other of 341 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.640 these I don't know, processed church type organizations that all 342 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.000 that kind of tie everybody together. 343 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.400 But he don't know, he just always seemed like an 344 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.240 anomaly to me. 345 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.640 M m yeah. And the clown thing, well. 346 00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.079 Yeah, I mean he's he's like one of those reasons 347 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:00.599 that everybody's scared of clowns. 348 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.599 We have John Wayne Gacy and then Pennywise. 349 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:05.920 Who was also into kids. 350 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:11.079 Yeah, and I never knew if perhaps King I haven't 351 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.759 heard one way or the other true inspiration from he. 352 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:20.680 Had to killer clown Yeah. Yeah. But so this instance 353 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:26.079 where he's blabbing a little bit. So this interrogation was 354 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:31.839 cut short by a Sergeant Long and then later resumed 355 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.920 with two attorneys at Gaysey's side. No further mention was 356 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.279 made of any accomplices, and the issue does not appear 357 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:48.200 to have been pursued thereafter. So it kind of for me, 358 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:53.599 if I'm just gonna say an opinion, I think that 359 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:59.079 he was being honest about the accomplices. 360 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:01.920 Yeah, And I'm not saying he wasn't. 361 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.559 No, I know you're not. Just if I had it, 362 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:10.200 like make an opinion out of the information provided, I'm 363 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:13.119 gonna say I think he was telling the truth about 364 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:13.920 the accomplices. 365 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.519 Yeah, and I mean he ruffled feathers, but apparently not 366 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.200 enough to take him out. 367 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.799 Then he got to see I don't know how many 368 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.799 years in prison. I don't know the exactly. 369 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:28.960 I don't know how long they let him sit in 370 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:29.240 there for. 371 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.440 They get it was a while because. 372 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:35.200 By the time Jeffrey Dahmer was caught in the mid 373 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.480 nineties or I guess that was early nineties. Still, that 374 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:42.680 was a pretty significant amount of time because you know, 375 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:49.920 there's the famous synchronicity of the eclipse with Dahmer getting 376 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:55.079 baptized and Casey get yeah, Casey getting executed. So, yeah, 377 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:58.039 he was in there for you know, between ten and 378 00:25:58.039 --> 00:25:59.279 twenty years. 379 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.200 Do you think if you keep them in there long enough, 380 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.319 they'll just start saying crazy shit so they can get 381 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.160 out of their cell, like Charles Manson. 382 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:12.319 Well, also the ship that Bundy pulled when. 383 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.440 He oh god, I won't even get me started on that. 384 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:20.440 They stayed that execution like fucking a dozen times or 385 00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:21.359 some shit, and. 386 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.799 Then he blamed it all on pornography. 387 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.079 Well, yeah, he wanted his ex girlfriend to show up 388 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.599 and he would I'll tell where these bodies are, but 389 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.119 only her, And it was just like, I don't know 390 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.759 a circus really, But yeah, it kind of seems like 391 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.720 Gaycy near the end of his life kind of just 392 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:40.079 took his fate. 393 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.599 He get the Gaysy tapes, right, and that was like 394 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.680 his chance to say shit. And he didn't say anything 395 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.000 about composes and stuff in those tapes, so they either 396 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:57.640 got him good and shut up on that or he lied. 397 00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:00.519 Well I had listened to I think I would think 398 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.799 I have mentioned this in this series already, But it's 399 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.839 another set of tapes that a young journalist independently started 400 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:13.200 reaching out. And the whole thing that was funny was 401 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.000 this guy knew that Gasey wanted to fuck him, and 402 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:20.480 they would He would kind of just like laugh it 403 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:21.920 off and change the subject. 404 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.440 But anyway he couldn't just flat out turn him down. 405 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.559 He'd be like, so you're gonna come pay me a 406 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.039 visit and we're gonna fuck. Like I would be like, well, 407 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:29.920 let's talk about this. 408 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.920 But anyway, he got him to allude to some things, 409 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.400 much like what Gasey had been saying when he was 410 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:40.000 you know, taken in, but he never really would get 411 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.200 specific about it, and he would kind of change the 412 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.000 subject back. 413 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.079 To like wanting to fuck the guy. 414 00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:46.799 Yeah, and they were just playing this weird tennis game. 415 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.720 But yeah, it does seem for the most part, he 416 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.559 really never said anything significant other than he didn't work alone. 417 00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:59.079 Well, there is just a little bit of substantial proof 418 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:02.559 to back up the theory that he wasn't working alone, 419 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.160 because the homicide rate in the Chicago area soared following 420 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:13.880 Gaysey's arrest, possibly indicating that a large cleanup operation ensued, 421 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:19.279 and on December twenty eighth, a week after John's arrest, 422 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.400 a fresh body was fished from the des Plains River. 423 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:31.759 Gacy and the Smiley Face Killer somehow could be connected 424 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:36.640 to the same group of people, though I'm not sure 425 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.079 who those people are, but it does seem odd because 426 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.119 the Smiley Face victims are all male. All Gaycy's victims 427 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.279 were male as far as we know, and even though 428 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.599 he was arrested, there's still bodies pilot up and the 429 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:53.680 first one they found was fished out of the river. 430 00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.039 So when I talked to William Ramsey. He said that 431 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.039 the Smiley Face murders have been going on since the sixties. 432 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.920 So yeah, I don't know if like Gaysey was just 433 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.039 like part of it and then they moved on and 434 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:09.599 now it's because we do know that the Smiley face 435 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.519 killers are multiple assailants. 436 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:16.319 Well even just with the time span they'd have to be. 437 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:18.359 They're still happening today. 438 00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:21.160 Mm hmm. I think there was just one in outside 439 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:25.160 of Austin, Texas, and earlier in this year, Yeah, there was. 440 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:29.279 There's a lot, a lot of interesting theories on Smiley 441 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.880 faced killers. It's all. It's kind of rescissent of. 442 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:37.599 Zodiac where they didn't really just at any point come 443 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.359 up with just one figurehead to take the blame for 444 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:44.519 it all. It's almost like a cautionary tell, like your 445 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.079 son's going to a college party that don't walk home 446 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.640 drunk alone, you end up in the river. 447 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.559 I mean right, yeah, I mean do you think there 448 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:55.240 could have been like Gaysey could have been part of 449 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.359 a weird smiley face cult. 450 00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:02.319 Well, I mean possibly, but his oh was getting these 451 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.079 kids back to his house and having the bodies, you know, 452 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.039 stashed away under his floorboards. 453 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.680 Or whatever, And. 454 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.240 That doesn't really fit the smiley face killer, not saying 455 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.400 he couldn't have been out there having fun doing that too. 456 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.240 Well, no, I'm saying they could have been working in tandem. 457 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.000 Yeah, and he could have been helping out. 458 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:27.160 But you know, who knows, just saying if there's multiple assailants, 459 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.039 it's like I said, they might each have a style. Right, 460 00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.920 And Gaysey gets locked up and there's still bodies piling up. 461 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:35.680 Now they're finding them in the fucking river. 462 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:41.319 So well, Chicago's never been a stranger to weird violent crimes. 463 00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.920 Well, here we here we go with another point too. 464 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:53.599 Although Gaysey confessed to being a mass murderer, he had 465 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.519 very little knowledge of the crimes to which he confessed. 466 00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.119 He claimed, for instance, that all of the victims were strangled, 467 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:05.920 but forensic evidence suggested that at least thirteen of them 468 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:11.119 had been suffocated. He provided a map of the locations 469 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.039 of the bodies under his house that press reports claimed 470 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:21.839 was accurate, even though it actually contained numerous discrepancies. So 471 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.359 do you think there were like this sounds crazy, but 472 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:28.680 do you think there was people putting bodies under his house? 473 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.039 And like some of them he didn't even kill without 474 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.240 his knowledge, and like he knew they were putting them 475 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:36.640 under thee. 476 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.319 Yeah, think of season five of Dexter, and if anybody 477 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.519 out there hasn't seen that, it's it opens up with 478 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.799 Dexter finding a guy who's killing women and storing them 479 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.440 in formaldehyde in barrels, and he kills the guy and 480 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.160 then he finds a victim who survived and she lets 481 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.680 him know that he's just like the clean up guy. 482 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.039 They bring him the girls to put out of their misery. 483 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:09.160 So Gasey's house could have been such a place where 484 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.160 they know they've got this stick fuck who likes to choke. 485 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:17.319 Boys, and they my god, through the ringer and then 486 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:21.240 they take them there. He has his fun finishes them off. 487 00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.359 Then maybe there's a team of people three or four 488 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.079 putting bodies under the house. 489 00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:30.759 Oh my god, that's a brilliant theory. 490 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:32.559 Well it's just a theory. 491 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.079 Because he is like a garbage disposal. 492 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.200 Yeah, I mean, he's. 493 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.799 A big, fat, sweaty gross. 494 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.960 Literally looks like he could be a garbage. 495 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.839 Man, Like he's throws. So they do all this stuff 496 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:47.599 to these kids and then they kind of take them 497 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.000 back to Gacy's house. He finishes them off, and then 498 00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:52.599 like maybe he buries some maybe they bury. 499 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.400 Some kind of thing. I mean, who knows, damn. 500 00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:04.200 And Gacy was able to recall sketchy details of only 501 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:10.039 five of the killings. Of the other twenty eight, he 502 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:15.119 had no memory at all. He claimed that the murders 503 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:20.279 began in nineteen seventy four, but then later stated that 504 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:25.000 the first occurred in January nineteen seventy two. He attributed 505 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:28.480 all of the murders to an alter personality that he 506 00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:33.559 referred to as Jack Hanley, Which brings me to another point. 507 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.519 Do you think that he doesn't remember killing all of 508 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:43.839 them because he has an alter personality? Or do you 509 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.319 think that he has an alter personality because he is 510 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.599 a part of this group doing this stuff. 511 00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.599 It is either could be the case. 512 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.720 But also when you get a guy like this, he's 513 00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.319 just running out the mouth every chance he got before 514 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:04.279 he was in curged rated indefinitely, a guy like that, 515 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.519 you know he might have just a tactic of his 516 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.559 was like, maybe if I'm a little fuzzy on the details, 517 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.119 I could you know, you could get a stay of execution, 518 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.159 possibly by an insanity play. And so he starts being 519 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.719 fuzzy with the details, and then he starts claiming that 520 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.639 there's this alter ego. It could help his case and make, 521 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:32.000 you know, ensure his prolonged survival or he's just a 522 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:33.480 fucking mkltrure victim. 523 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.719 I could go either way on that, yeah, because you 524 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.800 would want to do anything you could to stay alive, 525 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.320 even if it was like another month. 526 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:44.079 Right. 527 00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:48.039 So then I don't know the laws in Illinois, but 528 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:51.400 you could get a stay of execution based on insanity 529 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.679 in some states. Yeah, I assume that that's a possibility there. 530 00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.159 They're a pretty liberal judicial system. 531 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.400 Well that's pretty much all I wanted to touch on 532 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.639 with Gasey. Do you have anything else, like you feel 533 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.880 like we left out before we move on? 534 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.800 I mean, I can't think of anything that is pressing 535 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.440 that we didn't talk about. 536 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.320 It just seems like this what the information that I 537 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:20.159 just provided you never sees the light of day as 538 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:25.000 far as documentaries are concerned, but leans more towards the 539 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.880 program to kill idea for sure. 540 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:27.880 Yeah. 541 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:32.239 And I mean, just to even assume, knowing everything we know, 542 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.480 if you've been listening up to this point through all 543 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.039 these series, the official narrative is always going to be 544 00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:43.840 a narrative and if they're selling the loan nut I 545 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.360 know model to us when it comes to every single 546 00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:51.079 one of these serial killers. Yeah, Gaysey's definitely not someone 547 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.639 who seemed to have acted alone. I mean, whether you 548 00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:57.239 trust what he said or thought that he had like 549 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:01.360 some kind of grand scheme to you know it just 550 00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:04.000 cause of stay for the execution, or even just. 551 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:06.199 I don't know. The guy liked to talk. 552 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.639 He was he would talk to anybody who who started 553 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:11.840 a correspondence with him. 554 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:15.880 Behind bars, he probably talked to his fucking self. Yeah, 555 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:17.760 like legit insane stuff. 556 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:22.840 Hey, John h Yeah, yeah, Jack. What was his name, 557 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:23.599 Jack Hanley? 558 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:26.920 Yeah, Jack Jack. Yeah. 559 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:31.199 Mainly the imagination is certainly lacking there. My name was John, 560 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.039 and then I had an alter ego. 561 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:35.800 I'd be like, it's Jack. I mean, if you grew 562 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:36.639 up with the name. 563 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.119 So bland as John, you'd be like, yeah, Pedro Hanley. 564 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.880 But no, it's just Jack. It's just Jack, John and Jack. 565 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.920 John and Jack. Yeah, if you had an altar, would 566 00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.880 what would you name them? 567 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:53.440 Tony Tony. 568 00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:55.119 That's right, you do have an altar. 569 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.360 Tony's blackout line alter alter ego. 570 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:03.920 Yeah, he he uh, he's fun that about Tony. Do 571 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:05.480 I have one? 572 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:06.800 Wouldn't you like to know? 573 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:11.199 I would like to know, so I kind of want 574 00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.840 to switch gears a little bit and move on to 575 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:19.119 our next serial killer, Ted Bundy. 576 00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:23.800 He didn't look like anybody's notion of somebody who would 577 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.199 tear apart young girls. 578 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:33.480 When pat Buddy, I've never spoken to anybody about this. 579 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.840 I am looking for an opportunity to tell the story 580 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:39.039 as past I can. 581 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:45.360 Person of this type chooses his duke for a reason 582 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.599 possession control files. 583 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.800 There was something unique about tense brain. He talked in 584 00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:57.519 terms of a voice in his head, and this voice 585 00:37:57.559 --> 00:37:59.760 would start saying things about women. 586 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.119 Yet very blue eyes when he really got to go, 587 00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:04.800 and his eyes went absolutely black. 588 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:09.960 Murder, leaving the cherson of this type hungry unfulfilled, would 589 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:14.880 also leave him with the obviously irrational belief that the 590 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.639 next time he did it he would be fulfilled, and 591 00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:19.639 the next time he did it he would be fulfilled, 592 00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.239 or the next time he did it he would be fulfilled. 593 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.280 Theodore Bundy has escaped, suspected of dozens of sex killings 594 00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:31.039 in Washington State, Idaho, Utah, and Colorado. 595 00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:32.800 I think things are going to work out That's about 596 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:33.360 all I have to say. 597 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.039 Monday is acting as an own lawyer. 598 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:36.920 What is unusual to see is that many of the 599 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:37.960 onlookers are women. 600 00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:39.400 You a little scared when you. 601 00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:39.800 Look at him. 602 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:41.679 He just doesn't look like the type to kill combany 603 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:42.280 real killer. 604 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.960 Theodore Bundy has escaped once again, one of the FBI's 605 00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:45.880 most wanted man. 606 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.079 He was charming and looking Mark, sure you have the 607 00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:52.039 right guy. 608 00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:56.760 I mean, I thought it animal and I'm not crazy. 609 00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:00.880 I'm a bit personality, the normal. 610 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:08.119 Individual, interesting motherfucker, and I have a little bit of information. 611 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:10.519 I feel like if anybody is up to speed with 612 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:14.840 true crime stuff, they already kind of know about the 613 00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:18.559 mainstream his victims and stuff like that. So I want 614 00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:20.440 to just talk about some of the stuff that you're 615 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:24.639 not going to find in the Netflix documentary. So Ted 616 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:31.360 Bundy's mom, Louise, legally changed Ted's name from Theodore Robert 617 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:38.119 Cowell to Theodore Robert Nelson for no discernible reason whatsoever. 618 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.079 And then she ends up married to Johnny Culpepper Bundy 619 00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:50.039 and changed Ted's name once again. So you know the theory, 620 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.199 or it's not a theory. Ted Bundy's mom was his 621 00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:59.280 sister raised by Louise, who was his grandmother. 622 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.440 Well, I don't know, you're saying his mom's. 623 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:06.119 Louise, but he only knew her as his mom, So 624 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:11.079 I'm taking it this is his grandmother. Yeah, so she 625 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:16.519 gets Ted his name is Theodore Robert Cowell and then 626 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:21.760 she changes it to Theodore Robert Nelson, and then she 627 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:27.719 ends up getting married to uh Bundy and changes his 628 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:32.199 name again to Bundy. But there's this weirdness like he 629 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.960 doesn't have a birth certificate and stuff like that. There's 630 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:37.039 almost no record of him ever being born. 631 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:41.119 Yeah, he's It's We've maybe said this already, but it's 632 00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:46.599 strikingly similar to Jack Nicholson's story, Jack Nicholson's mom. And 633 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:48.920 when you say that Ted Bundy's mom was his sister, 634 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.519 don't think that, like his sister was impregnated and gave 635 00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.039 birth to him. He thought his mom was his sister 636 00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.320 because she had him so young. I mean, just in 637 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.199 case that, you know, confused some people. 638 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:00.400 Bit. 639 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:03.039 Yeah, so he was raised by his grandmother, thought his 640 00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:04.119 grandmother was his mom. 641 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:06.000 I mean, did he ever know the truth about. 642 00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:09.079 That way later in life? Yeah? 643 00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:11.480 I think Jack Nicholson was thirty seven years. 644 00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.360 Old when he yeah, so so was Ted Bundy, and they. 645 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:17.800 He said, played by Jack Nicholson. 646 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:20.360 Dude, I said that, and somebody got mad as fuck 647 00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:20.679 at me. 648 00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.159 Oh, let's not have some fun and kick around some 649 00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.119 crazy ideas. I mean, it sounds like you're marrying yourself too. 650 00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.199 Do you want to know? It's ironic? I said it 651 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.880 on Dangerous World podcast and I got fucking attacked as 652 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.079 fuck after I said that, and they were showing me 653 00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:38.280 all these ry no no, no, no, no, oh yeah listeners 654 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.360 Ryan's listeners, because they were like, look at this picture 655 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:45.119 Jack Nicholson, and look at this picture of Ted Bundy. 656 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:48.039 But it's like we were talking to our guest that 657 00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:51.800 we had on earlier. There's characters, and I feel like 658 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:55.559 they're interchangeable. Sometimes they get swapped out and shit and 659 00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:02.199 like weird stuff. Sojack Nicholson, Ted Bundy, I don't know. 660 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:05.159 Yeah, it's all strange. 661 00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.199 So this Johnny Culpepper Bundy, by the way, was a 662 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.800 former Navy man and himself and a bunch of his 663 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.599 family members were employed at a military hospital at a 664 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:23.320 joint Army slash Air Force complex. So this was taking 665 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:29.719 place in the early seventies, and so we were talking 666 00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:34.280 about Jack Nicholson, we might as well say, like, this 667 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.360 is more Laurel Kenyony type shit with Ted. 668 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:45.000 With the military connections, I mean a military hospitals, bases, daycares. 669 00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:51.119 Seemed to be some very nefarious stuff being covered up 670 00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:51.920 with these places. 671 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.679 Yeah, and so Ted attended Woodrow Wilson High School in Tacoma, Washington, 672 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:03.679 at least according to his former classmates, he did. But 673 00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:11.400 here's the thing that cannot be verified, since all records 674 00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:16.840 of Bundy's enrollment there have strangely disappeared, just like it's 675 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:17.920 sucking birth certificate. 676 00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:20.000 Well, was there ever a birth certificate? 677 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.039 Like see a fucking homunculous baby? 678 00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.360 You're acting like, I mean, I'm not saying you're saying this, 679 00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.599 but the way this is worded, that his enrollment records disappeared. 680 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:35.440 But did they ever exist? It's not like they went 681 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:36.480 in there and cleaned. 682 00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.920 This guy up, right, I surely said, but I mean 683 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:41.159 they don't exist. 684 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:42.840 So but did they at one point? 685 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.559 Because that's kind of what they try to say about 686 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.800 Bob Lazar when his story about all this a UFO shit. 687 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.880 They went and looked at where he claimed to have 688 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.960 gone to school and they're like, oh my gosh, they got. 689 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.159 Rid of all the records I was even here. But 690 00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:57.840 with with Ted Bundy. 691 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:04.519 Mounculus, the way you put it, I'm picturing like you 692 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.760 just found a kid or you were handed this kid 693 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.119 might not even be your daughter's kid, but you raised 694 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:15.079 this kid for whatever reason. I mean, they're saying that 695 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:19.480 it's the daughter's kid of this woman who raised him. 696 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.679 Louise, But we don't know that. 697 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:26.239 We don't know what the fuck Louise was into, and 698 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:28.159 maybe this is one of those kids that. 699 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:34.719 They yeah, manipulated and then gave to a handler. 700 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:38.039 Whoever Louise is That to me makes more sense than 701 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:39.760 the sister getting pregnant. 702 00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:41.280 Right, I'm not saying she did it. 703 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:45.079 I mean there's the tell tale always his real mom 704 00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.800 was a prostitute. She would service her clientele right in 705 00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:53.519 the presence of young Ted. But it also makes you wonder, like, 706 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:55.639 how long did she even have him? In this narrative 707 00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:58.239 and this story, how long did this woman have this kid? 708 00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:00.119 But she was pulling tricks while he was in the 709 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:01.440 same you know. 710 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.440 Studio before the grandma got him. 711 00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:06.679 Yeah, but it just seems like in this story, the 712 00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.519 grandma would have taken him immediately. I don't know unless. 713 00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:12.519 Unless it's like we were saying, and it's all just 714 00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:13.079 a story. 715 00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.280 Yeah, like why is this old woman have this young kid? 716 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:18.400 And you know, you could say, oh, it was her 717 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.800 daughter's kid, really, but. 718 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.639 For some reason she ends up with him. She changes 719 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.000 his name twice, she shack, She fucking pairs up with 720 00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:27.639 this was it Navy? 721 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:31.000 Yeah he maybe guy and. 722 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.760 Changes her his name to his name Johnny Culpepper Bundy 723 00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:36.440 to Yeah. 724 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:41.079 So weirdness, right, I mean, did the guy adopt him? 725 00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:47.719 Not that I know of. So and so here's the thing. 726 00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:52.239 In July of nineteen seventy three, Bundy flew to the 727 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.559 San Francisco area, just as the dusk was settling from 728 00:45:56.679 --> 00:46:00.840 the fucking spree of Zodiac ritual murders that had terrorized 729 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:05.239 the city. Interesting timing, not really. 730 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.920 You know, your your one preak shows kind of losing it. 731 00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:12.559 It's zest with the crowd. You gotta get them something new. 732 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.840 So it makes perfect sense they would fla Bundy in there. 733 00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:19.559 But it's like we were saying in the very first episode, 734 00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:23.320 all those other serial killers were the training wheels for 735 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:26.280 bringing in like the Bundies and shit. We don't even 736 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:30.159 know where Bundy fucking came from, honestly, right, like literally 737 00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.480 he just dropped off at this That's how. 738 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.320 I like got a cover story with lots of holes in. 739 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:45.480 Then, just after his return to Washington, women began disappearing 740 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:51.760 from the Seattle Tacoma area. Before that time, the Seattle 741 00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:56.119 area had experienced very few murders, but that was about 742 00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:00.599 to change drastically. So my other theory is, did he 743 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.719 go to San Francisco to get trained because there were 744 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:10.880 no murders going on at all. He flies to San 745 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.000 Francisco just as the Zodiac murders are dropping off. Then 746 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.440 he flies back to Washington and bitches start fucking turning 747 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:21.880 up dead and decapitate and shit all over the place. 748 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.719 Well, and then you referred it makes me think of. 749 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:31.280 The crime scenes and True Detective that a lot of 750 00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.800 the stuff that Bundy was first doing, the twigs. 751 00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:36.559 And berries, the twigs and berries. 752 00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.800 So you know, that sounds like all that random shit 753 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:43.519 that started popping off in the Santa Cruz Hills where 754 00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:48.079 you have these like almost ludicrous to the amount of 755 00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:53.599 being like bad TV, just fucking coult slaughters m It's 756 00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:55.920 just they're just going through the fucking mountains around that 757 00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:56.960 Santa Cruz area. 758 00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.880 But I mean maybe he was a part of that. 759 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:03.400 Maybe that was like they saw the Phoenix program's success 760 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.039 in Vietnam and then they come back here and they're like, 761 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:09.519 we could just do this here, and you know, Santa Cruz, 762 00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:12.679 San Francisco, that whole area, and now like we need 763 00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:15.800 to expand, we need some new franchises. We could get 764 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.119 this Ted guy to manage the Seattle area. You know, 765 00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:21.960 he could just be put loose there. 766 00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:27.440 Mm hm. And July nineteen seventy three when he flew 767 00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:31.800 to San Francis Cisco, that was a year after William 768 00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:41.000 Colby came back. Yeah, so God only knows now. The 769 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:44.679 body of the first victim attributed to Bundy was found 770 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:50.800 on December sixth, nineteen seventy three. Catherine Mary Divine. She 771 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.400 had last been seen two weeks earlier getting into a 772 00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:59.000 pickup truck after running away from home. The man from 773 00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:03.920 whom she will accepted the ride was not Ted Bundy, 774 00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:08.800 witness confirmed. It's also pretty odd that her body was 775 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:14.239 found to be missing its heart, liver, and lungs, later 776 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:20.599 attributed to scavenging animals. But if it was scavenging animals. 777 00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:26.039 The fucking scavengers were very selective. And it also doesn't 778 00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:29.559 fit the mo of any of the other Bundy victims. 779 00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:31.880 So what do you think about this? 780 00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:35.360 Well, the whole animal thing. 781 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:41.400 Yes, predatory animals will go for the liver, like with 782 00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:43.719 the when a wolf pack takes down and elk. The 783 00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.239 alpha gets the liver, but you just don't stop eating. 784 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.239 Oh we got the lungs and the liver and what 785 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:50.039 else is missing? 786 00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:50.400 The heart? 787 00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:50.800 M h. 788 00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.119 Yeah, animals don't just like go for the gourmet and 789 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:55.559 then just leave the scraps. 790 00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:59.480 So that's kind of weird. Also, the other. 791 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:05.039 Question was, well, she got into a truck. Witness confirmed 792 00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:10.519 was not Ted Bundy, right, but they attributed this as 793 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:15.119 his very first victim. None of the other victims they 794 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:18.880 found that were attributed to Tad Bundy had missing organs. 795 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:23.719 So where was this? This was in the Seattle area, okay, 796 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:31.800 seventy three. So next to disappear was Linda Heey in 797 00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:37.840 the morning hours of February first, nineteen seventy four. According 798 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:42.480 to the official version of events, Linda was abducted from 799 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:47.920 the home that she shared with roommates. Okay, so Bundy 800 00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:53.320 allegedly entered the house undetected by any of the home's 801 00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:01.960 other occupants, crept noiselessly downstairs, overpowered and killed Linda without 802 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.840 waking a single fucking roommate, who, by the way, were 803 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:10.639 sleeping just on the other side of a thin plywood wall, 804 00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:15.440 and without leaving behind any signs of a struggle. He 805 00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:21.320 also wrapped Linda's body, carried it back upstairs undetected, and 806 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:26.800 then returned, still unnoticed, to make Linda's fucking bed, hang 807 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:31.079 up her fucking nightgown, and grab a change of her 808 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:36.320 fucking clothes. Nothing unusual about any of that, though, right 809 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:41.880 the only remains of Linda Healey that were ever found 810 00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:46.960 was her skull, which investigators speculated that she had been 811 00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:52.639 bludgeoned to death. According to Heally's mother, the positive identification 812 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:56.159 of that skull was based on one single fucking tooth, 813 00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:02.000 raising the question of whether Linda was ever actually found 814 00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:06.079 out all So, what do you think about this, because 815 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.000 in the documentaries it makes it out to be that 816 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:13.440 Linda had one other roommate away on the other side 817 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:18.719 of the house, and you know, that's why nobody heard 818 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.760 him coming in and out, But she had actually had 819 00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:25.840 several roommates, and to pull all this off and then 820 00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:29.320 make her bed, hang up her night gown, grab a 821 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.079 change of clothes for her. What do you think about that? 822 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:40.119 I mean, are you suggesting that this may have been 823 00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:43.000 done somewhere else? Or yeah, maybe. 824 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:46.159 Not at all, because maybe not at all. 825 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:47.000 Their blood. 826 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.480 They said that there was blood on her mattress, but 827 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:55.840 I looked at the pictures. Definitely could have been period blood. 828 00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:57.519 To me, it could have been old blood. 829 00:52:59.440 --> 00:52:59.960 That was it. 830 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:00.760 Mm hmmm. 831 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:03.760 And she was allegedly bludgeoned. 832 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:04.800 Mm hmmm. 833 00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:08.280 I mean, if you nick your forehead, it bleeds like 834 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.719 a stuck pig. So to have your fucking skull bashed 835 00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:18.800 the fuck in makes me, Hey, you're gonna make some noises. 836 00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:24.960 No signs of a struggle too, didn't wake a single person. 837 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.400 Well, god knows, when you kill somebody, you want to 838 00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.519 take him out then return to make the bed. 839 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.400 That makes a hell of a lot of sense, but 840 00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:33.519 it just does it. 841 00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:36.599 So he's cleaning up her room for her, Yeah, after 842 00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:41.400 killing her. He didn't want to. That's any other rap 843 00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:42.800 with your roommates. 844 00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.920 Grabbed, hung her night gown up, grabbed her the dead body, 845 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:52.079 a change of clothes, So can we say maybe Linda 846 00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:53.280 and heally, is it real? 847 00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:54.639 I don't know. 848 00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:59.880 Do you think she's a character because she was also on. 849 00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:03.119 The news, right, I don't think she would have to 850 00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:04.800 be fake to be a part of all this. 851 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.960 No, she wasn't like a news anchor, right. 852 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:09.559 So when you say she was on the news, you. 853 00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:14.599 Well like a character, so you should tell. 854 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:16.639 You know, you keep alluding to the episode that we 855 00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:20.000 did earlier for our other shows. We did kind of 856 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.960 a swapcast thing with a guest who's not quite to 857 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:27.840 the level of human vibrations but also very much on 858 00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:33.480 the wagon that much of this stuff is not only exaggerated, 859 00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:39.119 but you know, sometimes just straight up created. So yeah, 860 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.159 if she's like a newscaster, some I mean newscasters are 861 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:47.679 at least like, in small pockets, celebrities of type. 862 00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.159 I mean you'll see them out at dinner and you're like, 863 00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:51.639 oh my god, she's on the news. 864 00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:57.599 So I mean, yeah, who knows she could have been 865 00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:00.440 a character because the fact that. 866 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:03.480 They found this bashed in skull and identified it off 867 00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:07.440 of one tooth, and the type of forensics they were 868 00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:09.880 doing in the seventies wasn't like they took DNA from 869 00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.239 that tooth. They just said, this looks like one of 870 00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:14.360 Linda's teeth. This must be Linda. 871 00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:18.800 Well, many people, especially I don't know. 872 00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:21.400 This was the seventies, so it might not have been 873 00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:25.719 as common, But most people have dental records, and it's 874 00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:27.440 supposed to be one of the most. 875 00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:31.320 You know, tight form of science. 876 00:55:32.119 --> 00:55:34.960 It's not like DNA science, which is flawed in lots 877 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.800 of ways, but your dental records are supposed to be 878 00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:40.000 pretty spot on, almost. 879 00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:41.679 Like fingerprints, like one tooth do you think. 880 00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:44.079 I don't know the extent of it, but I do 881 00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:48.719 know that they have identified bodies burned beyond record. I 882 00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:52.719 mean it could have been but whether it was her 883 00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:56.039 being killed at all or not being killed at this house, 884 00:55:56.679 --> 00:55:57.400 the fact that. 885 00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:01.119 They want to paint. 886 00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.199 The narrative that this is where the murder took place, 887 00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:06.880 but they didn't even bother to like go stage a 888 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:11.760 crime scene. This woman disappears a skull that couldn't have 889 00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:15.000 been hers, I mean, based on so what was it 890 00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:15.840 the mom said? 891 00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:20.559 The mom said, the positive identification of this skull was 892 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:21.960 based on a single tooth. 893 00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:25.440 So is she saying that in like a doubtful way yeah, okay. 894 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:27.079 I mean, I think if it was your kids. 895 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.239 So she's like, you'd want more than that in the depths. 896 00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:33.199 Of woe, like to the level of Johnny Gosh's mom perhaps, 897 00:56:33.320 --> 00:56:37.400 and she doesn't buy the bullshit their feet in her Yeah, 898 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:40.000 it's very sketchy, And the fact that it's supposed to 899 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.480 be one of Bundy's first victims is kind of weird too, 900 00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:45.480 because you know. 901 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.199 It seems meticulous for someone who's just getting started, that's 902 00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:50.039 for fucking sure. 903 00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:53.239 If that's the funny thing about Bundy is he seemed 904 00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:57.400 to start meticulous, and near the end of his reign 905 00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:01.800 he was going into a goddamn dormitory with a hammer 906 00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:03.320 and just fucking. 907 00:57:03.039 --> 00:57:04.559 Going all out dismastic. 908 00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:08.920 It's in whack a mole. Yeah, fucking arcade. 909 00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:14.400 Well, so, okay, if this was even Bundy, right, So 910 00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:16.079 that's another theory. 911 00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:19.400 If it was Bundy, somebody went out of their way 912 00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:21.039 to make this look like something it wasn't. 913 00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:21.599 Right. 914 00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:22.480 This is also. 915 00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:28.440 Interesting now, the Pacific Northwest was also dealing with another 916 00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:32.719 emerging problem in the spring of nineteen seventy four, which 917 00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.519 was an abundance of what we're referred to as cattle mutilations. 918 00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:44.199 Conspiracy theories, frequently involving UFOs and alien experimentation floated around, 919 00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:49.960 but many police investigators and independent researchers linked those occurrences to 920 00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:54.719 local satanic cult activity because they would secretly love to 921 00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:58.079 brainwash everyone with UFO shit. But you know what I 922 00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.760 find interesting about this that they were finding cattle mutilations 923 00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:05.280 the same time Bundy was running around, and they blamed it, 924 00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:08.239 and then the police said it was cult activity and shit. 925 00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:15.079 In the Pacific Northwest in Oregon, my cousin's been texting 926 00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:19.599 me like a lot about there being cattle mutilations popping up, 927 00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:23.360 And the first thing she says was, it's aliens. They're 928 00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:26.840 drained of blood, They're this, they're that. I bet you 929 00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:31.679 there's some fucking serial murder shit going on always in 930 00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:34.159 the Pacific Northwest, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's. 931 00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:38.840 Always We've had cattle mutilations and serial killers since the seventies. 932 00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:40.159 It's never like stopped. 933 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:43.880 What do you think it is because it's so close 934 00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:48.719 to Seattle or what? What do you mean this Pacific 935 00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.079 Northwest like where we are in like Oregon, the I 936 00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:54.599 five murders and all that. Do you think like, well, 937 00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:57.159 it comes from there, and like trickles. 938 00:58:56.719 --> 00:59:01.280 Down, we happen to be damn near sin Point between 939 00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:06.400 Portland and San Francisco. And then Seattle's only a few 940 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:10.360 hours in car north of Portland. 941 00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:13.559 So you're saying we could be victims of a potential 942 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:14.760 future serial killer. 943 00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:16.920 I mean, you don't give them any ideas. If they 944 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:18.000 want to shut you up. 945 00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:20.559 I've donet let the cat out of the bag. 946 00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:22.800 I mean, I can see the I five from our window. 947 00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:26.679 Oh god, the I five is the freeway we take 948 00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:27.679 when we take the freeway. 949 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:33.159 I'm just learning this. So on July third, nineteen seventy four, 950 00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:38.039 a law enforcement summit was held in Olympia, Washington that 951 00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:42.559 was attended by one hundred representatives from Washington and Oregon. 952 00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:47.559 A prime topic of conversation at the summit was the 953 00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:51.480 wave of missing girls, which was actually kind of weird 954 00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:54.880 and fucked up since only one of the girl's remains 955 00:59:54.920 --> 00:59:58.559 had been discovered at that time, and it didn't necessarily 956 00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:02.039 confirm that she had been met with foul play, and 957 01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:07.639 there was no indication whatsoever that the disappearances, which occurred 958 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:12.079 over a wide geographic area were connected in any way. 959 01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.239 So why was this already the hot topic? 960 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:17.880 Well, all it kind of is reminiscent of me to 961 01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:24.719 how the military always seems to know who they're going 962 01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:27.239 to be fighting in what area way before the war 963 01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:30.159 actually breaks out. So it's like, yeah, they're gearing up 964 01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:32.719 knowing that this is going to be the next big 965 01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:35.760 thing they're fighting against. Why do they know that at 966 01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:39.199 this early on? It's this It's nineteen seventy four, still, 967 01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:42.960 I mean, this is definitely enough time has passed since 968 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.320 the Manson killings. 969 01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:46.920 This is five years later, and. 970 01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:49.960 You think they were being on the offensive or defensive? 971 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.559 I mean, or do you think that they were planning 972 01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:52.960 this shit? 973 01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:55.199 Well, I don't think it would have gone down to that. 974 01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:58.880 The level of all the law enforcement people, I think 975 01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:03.239 that they're definitely role players in this game, most. 976 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:04.320 Of them, probably unwittingly. 977 01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:08.039 You know, they're just little ponds in the grand scheme 978 01:01:08.039 --> 01:01:11.679 of things. But yeah, whoever set this meeting up or summit, 979 01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:15.440 it was, yeah, here's the next thing for you. 980 01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:18.679 This is going to be an issue by nineteen eighty, 981 01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.239 there's gonna be twenty by in nineteen ninety, there could 982 01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:21.880 be hundreds. 983 01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:27.840 Yeah, no joke, it's almost also like when Fauci and 984 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.679 all these fuckers meet up and they're. 985 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:33.480 Like the World Economic Forum. 986 01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:34.960 No, no, no, not even them. 987 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.119 It's just like these drills that they run like at 988 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:39.159 John Hopkins University. 989 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.559 Like what if there was a pandemic type shit. Yeah, 990 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:43.559 that's that's what it felt. 991 01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:45.960 Like, preparing for what we know is going to happen. 992 01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:49.119 Yeah. When I read that about the summit, I was thinking, 993 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:53.719 this is, you know, like a rehearsal for the big show. 994 01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:55.559 Like, yeah, they're having a little pepp rally. 995 01:01:55.719 --> 01:02:01.159 Yeah. So, each of the seven girls that disappeared, Katherine Divine, 996 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:07.400 Linda and Healey, Donna Manson, Susan Rancourt, Kathleen Parks, Brenda Ball, 997 01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:13.239 and Susanne Hawkins had vanished without a single clue having 998 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:18.559 been left behind. There were no witnesses and no forensic 999 01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:22.880 evidence to tie anyone to any of the crime scenes. 1000 01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:27.199 In some of the cases, it couldn't even be determined 1001 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:33.119 when or where the crime had occurred. Completely undetectable, maybe 1002 01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:38.719 by design, I think, as a beginning serial killer, when 1003 01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:42.599 there's not even a lot of serial killers to be found, 1004 01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:49.320 it's odd that he was so undetectable. Not a scrap 1005 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:50.039 of evidence. 1006 01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:53.159 Well, you also got to take into consideration the fact 1007 01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:57.360 that the serial killer phenomenon being slightly new. 1008 01:02:58.119 --> 01:03:01.360 Do they even have like advanced for in teams? Why 1009 01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:04.599 would a local police station even be able to deal 1010 01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:07.880 with something that's never been an issue before? Because that's 1011 01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:08.480 very true. 1012 01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:10.880 You're not having these murders left and right until the 1013 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:14.400 late seventies, late sixties through the mid seventies where it really. 1014 01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:15.199 Starts to take off. 1015 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:17.960 Having a summit like this would be like, and now 1016 01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.840 we need all this money too to fight this new 1017 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:25.480 emergence of all these serial killers. So I think pretty 1018 01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:28.000 much nice back in the day, the FBI would just 1019 01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:28.400 step in. 1020 01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.920 Yeah, they weren't equipped to handle it on the local level. 1021 01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:36.760 Yeah, I mean you always bring up good points. That 1022 01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:42.599 gets me to thinking about shit, because how about this. 1023 01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:48.280 Not only is there no good forensics and shit like 1024 01:03:48.440 --> 01:03:52.119 to in, no good crime scene investigating, like they don't 1025 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.119 even know what they're doing. Really, they could have been 1026 01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:59.119 contaminating evidence and all kinds of shit. Let's go in 1027 01:03:59.199 --> 01:04:02.880 a completely different fucking because a lot of the victims, 1028 01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.320 friends and family and roommates and shit like that say, 1029 01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:10.719 it's almost as if they disappeared right with no trace 1030 01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:16.400 of anything left behind. I almost want to go human 1031 01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:21.920 vibrations and say that none of these girls were real. 1032 01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:27.119 That that would be just at first glance, not a 1033 01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:28.960 bad theory. 1034 01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:33.440 I don't In all of the documentaries, you only ever 1035 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:36.599 see adult pictures of them. There's no pictures of them 1036 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.360 as babies, there's no pictures of them as kids. 1037 01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:42.360 One of them's a local news celebrity. 1038 01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:47.599 Mm hmm, what if and that sucks for Let's just 1039 01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:50.960 say they are real, and like, there's victims family members 1040 01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:53.199 out there that would be like fuck you, But like 1041 01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:55.639 what if they were what if they were all fake? 1042 01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:58.920 If you're a victim family member who would like to 1043 01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:02.119 reach out and say fuck you Julia, you can go 1044 01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:06.480 to cosmicpeach dot com send her an email, and if 1045 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:09.280 you don't get any keep going with the theory. 1046 01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:13.559 But yeah, so I mean to disappear without a trace, 1047 01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.360 and I don't know, like in all of the documentaries, 1048 01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:22.719 it's only one family member that's like, yeah, they were 1049 01:05:22.760 --> 01:05:26.360 taken and they can find crisis actors really easy, and shit, 1050 01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:29.840 you know they've done that a million times. 1051 01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:36.119 Oh and you know we always talk about how back 1052 01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:40.920 when they first start doing these staged events slash false flags. 1053 01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:44.800 They didn't have Internet sleuths willing to tear it apart 1054 01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:47.000 the minute the shit gets put out. They're gonna look 1055 01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:49.679 for holes in the story. They're gonna look for inconsistencies. 1056 01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:53.079 They're gonna look for Oh, this person also showed up 1057 01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:55.280 at the Boston marathon bombing. She was the one that 1058 01:05:55.360 --> 01:05:57.519 was there at the Parkland school shooting. She was also 1059 01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:01.559 at Sandy Hook. Back then, they didn't have anything going 1060 01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:05.480 on like that, so they could be so sloppy and just, yeah, 1061 01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:08.960 disappear people who never really existed in the first place. 1062 01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:10.920 Is something that would be easy to pull off. 1063 01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:17.239 You're not going to have people come out and say, 1064 01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:20.000 anybody who knew them come forward and talk to me 1065 01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:22.079 so I can verify if I think this person's real 1066 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:22.400 or not. 1067 01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:28.199 I mean, that's just can you imagine in the seventies 1068 01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:28.760 the level of. 1069 01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:32.519 Oh yeah, thoughts, oh yeah, it was non existent. 1070 01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.239 Really, I mean, you would just most people would just take. 1071 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:38.480 They said it, so therefore it is true. 1072 01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:43.039 Yeah, it's on the news, and I don't know anybody 1073 01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:45.480 that knows this person. But look, they just interviewed somebody 1074 01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:47.639 who said they were their friend and they're crying, so 1075 01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:48.320 this is real. 1076 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:50.599 Yeah, and they also made Ted Bunny you have to 1077 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:53.800 be like a handsome, good looking get dude and like, look, 1078 01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:58.719 freaking Brad Pitt's a murderer. That's pretty much what they did. Yeah, 1079 01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:01.440 but we have to have a bad guy to pin 1080 01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:06.840 these so called murders on, right, So conveniently, on July fourteenth, 1081 01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:11.199 just days after the summit that we talked about earlier, 1082 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:18.360 Janisawt and Denise Naslin both reportedly disappeared from the very 1083 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:22.880 crowded Lake Samamish Park in broad daylight and in front 1084 01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:27.880 of literally thousands of potential witnesses, including a sizeable part 1085 01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:32.599 of the Seattle Police Force, who just so happened to 1086 01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:36.480 be holding their annual picnic there that day. A total 1087 01:07:36.519 --> 01:07:40.960 of eight witnesses came forward claiming to have seen the 1088 01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:45.679 elusive predator in the park that day. One of them 1089 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:48.480 had seen Janis aught in the company of a man 1090 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:53.199 with sandy blonde hair around the time of her disappearance. 1091 01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:59.440 The descriptions offered by the other witnesses varied. Only two 1092 01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:04.480 of them were ever able to identify Bundy as the 1093 01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:09.519 man they had seen, and only after his image had 1094 01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.840 been widely aired by the media, but the one thing 1095 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.880 that several of them agreed on was that the man 1096 01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:22.680 had introduced himself as Ted. So now we conveniently have 1097 01:08:22.800 --> 01:08:26.039 a name for our mystery man. And this occurred just 1098 01:08:26.199 --> 01:08:29.760 days after the summit. What do you think about that? 1099 01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:35.840 I mean, the timing of it or the lack of 1100 01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:40.000 like witness testimony, and also the witness testimon Well that does. 1101 01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:42.479 Stand is calling this guy a blonde. 1102 01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:45.920 There's several layers to this, because let's go with this. 1103 01:08:46.079 --> 01:08:48.720 They hold the summit and they say, all these girls 1104 01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:50.640 are gone missing, what are we going to do about it? 1105 01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:53.960 Just days later they got a name for this guy. 1106 01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:56.640 And they're also showing you how easy this happens. 1107 01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:58.840 Look, you can be abducted right in the middle of 1108 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.880 a fucking please conference or pretty much police picnic policic. 1109 01:09:04.039 --> 01:09:06.479 I mean, yeah, they're off duty, they're probably tying one on, 1110 01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:09.760 eating lots of food and not really acting like they're 1111 01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:10.399 on the job. 1112 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:13.039 But it's just not a good look. 1113 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:18.199 Also, out of thousands of people that were at the park, 1114 01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:21.359 one of them said he was a sandy, blondheaded person. 1115 01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:24.239 The other witnesses varied on what he looked like. 1116 01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:27.199 And well, remember Ted could change what he looked like 1117 01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:28.119 just by wanting to. 1118 01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:28.880 According to the. 1119 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:30.880 Lot in the Dead Puss Smell. 1120 01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:34.359 Yeah, yeah, he's walking around in a cloud of stench. 1121 01:09:34.840 --> 01:09:41.000 Now, how about this if they if these girls didn't 1122 01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:46.640 even exist and they just had some people like, Hey, 1123 01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:49.680 so you saw a guy today that well, I mean, 1124 01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:50.800 what do you think about that? 1125 01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:53.800 I mean, it's always a possibility in my mind that 1126 01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:56.880 these things are orchestrated. 1127 01:09:56.680 --> 01:09:57.600 Especially when. 1128 01:09:59.479 --> 01:10:02.039 I don't know you you have this legendary serial killer, 1129 01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:05.520 Ted Bundy, where this is just the start of it, 1130 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:09.560 and there's already so many inconsistencies in it. And when 1131 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:13.000 you get near the end of Ted's killing spree, he's 1132 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:17.239 killing people like two counties apart in Florida, where to 1133 01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:20.520 clean up the crime of his first killing and then 1134 01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:23.520 get to it. Even in the best traffic scenario where 1135 01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:26.079 there's no delay, he still couldn't have done it. 1136 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:29.199 So this shit continues throughout his entire story. 1137 01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:33.000 It seems to be, you know, all these holes in 1138 01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:34.920 the story from day one and then all the way 1139 01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:35.560 to the end. 1140 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:39.399 Yeah, I'm actually gonna touch on one of those closer 1141 01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:43.079 to the end of the episode, because it's just so. 1142 01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:46.039 It's like you were saying, it's just almost impossible for 1143 01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:49.920 this stuff to all have been him. But like, why 1144 01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.319 the fuck would this stealthy killer choose to show his 1145 01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:59.079 face before thousands of potential witnesses, and why would he 1146 01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:04.800 use his real fucking name? And I think the most 1147 01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:10.920 important why here is why in the actual fuck if 1148 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.920 this is really the story, this Ted Bundy not appear 1149 01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:20.239 in one of the hundreds of photographs that were taken 1150 01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:23.680 at La Samamish Park that day. 1151 01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:24.920 Good question. 1152 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:29.039 And they're having this picnic and shit, like you would 1153 01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:32.399 think a motherfucker would have noticed him, or he would 1154 01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:34.880 have been in like a photo bomb like some lawyer's 1155 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:42.000 waldo type shit somewhere, and get this shit. One witness 1156 01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:47.680 saw a girl matching Denise Naslin's description ride off from 1157 01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:52.239 the park with a biker gang. She reportedly yelled, quote, no, 1158 01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:57.239 I can't let me off and quote Then many years later, 1159 01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:02.680 Naslyn's mother wrote a brief note that was displayed at 1160 01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:07.840 her daughter's memorial service, which read, quote God forgive them 1161 01:12:08.159 --> 01:12:13.239 for what they've done. I love you end quote. Unless 1162 01:12:13.399 --> 01:12:17.560 Ted was trans and pioneered the day them trend, it 1163 01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:20.840 does seem to be an odd choice of words. 1164 01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:24.039 You just broke the case. Ted was the day Them's 1165 01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:29.680 all alone. He was a trance and I would have 1166 01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:31.399 got away with it too if it wasn't for you 1167 01:12:31.479 --> 01:12:32.760 pesty podcasters. 1168 01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:38.319 So there are witnesses that say they see someone that 1169 01:12:38.359 --> 01:12:42.760 looked exactly like Denise Nasalin right off and obviously struggling 1170 01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:46.840 with a biker gang. And then Denise Naslyn's mother writes 1171 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:49.720 something for her memorial that says, God, forgive them for 1172 01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:52.399 what they've done. 1173 01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:54.199 Why why angels? 1174 01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:58.920 Yeah, I mean it is the seventies. It's I don't know, 1175 01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:00.960 it's just all to me. It's like a bunch of 1176 01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:03.920 random shit that they've like placed on. 1177 01:13:04.119 --> 01:13:08.840 Biker gangs play a significant and interesting role in a 1178 01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:13.479 lot of this stuff, going back to the Laurel Canyon 1179 01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:17.680 and San Francisco music scenes. They rubbed shoulders with a 1180 01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:19.439 lot of these other people who are kind of tied 1181 01:13:19.479 --> 01:13:20.520 into all this other stuff. 1182 01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:22.720 Hunter s. 1183 01:13:22.760 --> 01:13:29.119 Thompson, the stabbing at the Three Rolling Stones concert, Oh, 1184 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:34.239 the Fremont Yeah, or the ultramont so and you know, 1185 01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:39.039 biker gangs were a prominent feature of the sixties and seventies. 1186 01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:41.279 But it is something that pops up a lot in 1187 01:13:41.319 --> 01:13:42.079 weird places. 1188 01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.800 It's almost like, you know, when you're looking at a 1189 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:51.319 staged scene of chaos, they always strategically place shoes and 1190 01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:51.880 something to. 1191 01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:55.000 Do with firefighters. But it's like the fucking biker gangs 1192 01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:56.359 play a weird. 1193 01:13:56.199 --> 01:13:58.800 Role they're in. They're always like. 1194 01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.920 In the LSD movement, they were in like all the 1195 01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:06.880 big underground drug markets in the seventies too. 1196 01:14:07.159 --> 01:14:08.640 Well, I was gonna say, it's like they're always in 1197 01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:10.840 the background somewhere, you know. 1198 01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:13.279 Yeah, they're like foot soldiers. 1199 01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:16.279 So the fact that she was taken off from this 1200 01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:20.560 picnic by a biker gang doesn't seem that insignificant. 1201 01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:28.039 No, we're random and so following the like some mammish disappearances, 1202 01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:33.520 the task force tracking the Seattle killer was dubbed the 1203 01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:35.520 Ted Squad, and. 1204 01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:38.319 It'll be a killer fucking movie, Ted Squad. I could 1205 01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:43.640 see like Robert Rodriguez directing a Tarantino executive producing Ted Squad. 1206 01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:46.880 It would be a cool movie, just like Jim Morrison 1207 01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:51.199 and Charles Manson, like the real story, the real Ted Bundy. 1208 01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:51.760 You know. 1209 01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:53.520 Uh. 1210 01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:57.199 And one of the very first teds ever reported to 1211 01:14:57.279 --> 01:15:00.439 the task force was none other than Theodore Robert. 1212 01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:02.560 But so they're just going around looking at any Ted 1213 01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:03.239 Nick could find. 1214 01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:06.720 Yeah, they were also looking at any Volkswagon they could find, 1215 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:09.920 because they said that he drove a volts Wagon. 1216 01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:15.159 So wasn't it the Shining Book had the Volkswagen being 1217 01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:18.439 yellow and Kubrick changed it to red? 1218 01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:21.520 Or was it the vice versa? 1219 01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:24.840 So Kubrick made the change to the yellow bug that 1220 01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:26.000 to me always made. 1221 01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:28.920 If that doesn't make you think of Ted Bundy. 1222 01:15:29.199 --> 01:15:31.880 And Jack Nicholson Ted Bundy. 1223 01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:32.880 Again, that's why I brought that up. 1224 01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:36.159 Literally, the connections are weird. 1225 01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:41.239 Jack Nicholson's almost like a Forrest, gumpy and kind of 1226 01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:43.560 player in a lot of this ship. I mean I 1227 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:47.000 always said, if you could get anybody to be honest 1228 01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:50.600 with you that's still alive today and get him to 1229 01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:53.079 spill the beans on all this, Jack Nicholson would be 1230 01:15:53.079 --> 01:15:53.840 a good one. 1231 01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:56.359 Get alone in a room with some I would love 1232 01:15:56.399 --> 01:15:57.279 to pick his brain. 1233 01:15:58.640 --> 01:16:01.079 Yeah, I mean it sounds like he's kind of on 1234 01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:03.399 the decline mentally lately. I've heard a lot of weird 1235 01:16:03.399 --> 01:16:07.920 stuff about he's just kind of looking or acting crazy. 1236 01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:09.960 Isn't he like a million years old? 1237 01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:14.159 Well, he would be eighty close to it. 1238 01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:14.960 But so. 1239 01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:20.880 Here's a question for you, babe. You know how they 1240 01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:23.199 say Ted Bundy's appearance could change and it's like he 1241 01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:25.119 was a completely different person. What if it was because 1242 01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:26.399 he was a completely different person. 1243 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:29.359 That's always been on the forefront of my mind when 1244 01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:32.760 people say shit like that, like, yeah, he's a chameleon, 1245 01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:36.079 like sometimes it didn't even look like the same guy. 1246 01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:38.600 I mean that was the direct quote from a direct 1247 01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:40.079 from a neighbor of his in Florida. 1248 01:16:40.199 --> 01:16:40.840 Uh huh. 1249 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:42.680 And just for him to like say shit like that 1250 01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:44.359 if that's real witness testimony. 1251 01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:48.239 Yeah, we talk about like body doubles and stuff all 1252 01:16:48.279 --> 01:16:51.399 the time, and or many people playing one role. 1253 01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:55.399 Have you seen a young picture of Jack Nicholson young? 1254 01:16:55.479 --> 01:16:58.000 How young like when he first got started? 1255 01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.399 Oh yeah, I mean I loved those I literally getting. 1256 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:08.840 Him to look like Ted Bundy. Yeah, the skinny bridge 1257 01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:13.279 on the nose and like the dapper kind of pushed 1258 01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:16.359 over hair and at the beach they said he had 1259 01:17:16.359 --> 01:17:20.680 sandy blonde hair, right, And Jack Nicholson had sandy blonde hair, 1260 01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:22.359 did he didn't he? 1261 01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:25.960 I think it's always been on the more brunette side, 1262 01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:29.199 But fucking hair color is easy to deal with. I 1263 01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:31.640 don't know, you know, it's not ever a theory that 1264 01:17:31.720 --> 01:17:34.439 I really gave too much credence to. It was always 1265 01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:38.199 fun to just kick it around. But there are weird ties. 1266 01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:45.199 Even in Program to Kill, McGowan made the comparison. He's 1267 01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:50.359 talking about Jack Nicholson and weird sceninges inside the Canyon, 1268 01:17:50.399 --> 01:17:50.960 and he. 1269 01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:54.079 References this his second book, Program to Kill. 1270 01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:56.840 When he's talking about Jack Nicholson, he's saying, this is 1271 01:17:56.960 --> 01:18:00.840 very reminiscent of Ted Bundy's story. 1272 01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:04.279 So he he made a loose connection. 1273 01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:06.479 I don't think he was trying to take it to 1274 01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:07.359 where we are. 1275 01:18:08.119 --> 01:18:10.119 I'll only take it there because why not. 1276 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:13.039 I mean, I can't with why not? Because they do 1277 01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:13.680 a lot of shit. 1278 01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:20.319 They use actors, they use created personas to push shit 1279 01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:24.760 like this and oftentimes, like we've talked about Morrison being 1280 01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:28.800 a literal actor and Morrison being you know, yeah, maybe 1281 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:29.920 that was his real name. 1282 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:33.800 But Ted Bundy's literally came out of thin air. 1283 01:18:35.319 --> 01:18:43.960 So yeah, and with this whole Ted Squad thing, his 1284 01:18:44.199 --> 01:18:47.920 name was actually turned in by his friend who we 1285 01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:51.760 mentioned before in the last episode, the true crime author 1286 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:56.840 and Rule, who by the way, attended the fucking law 1287 01:18:56.960 --> 01:19:02.520 enforcement summit we spoke about earlier, and they pretty much 1288 01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:05.039 announced that they needed to find the bad guy who 1289 01:19:05.119 --> 01:19:08.079 was abducting bitches, and Rule was in attendance. And then 1290 01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:11.960 she was the first one to give his name to 1291 01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:18.000 the police. And she was friends with him, Okay, and then. 1292 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.359 Where this creative story. 1293 01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:23.239 That's what I'm saying. She's an author anyway, she likes stories. 1294 01:19:23.479 --> 01:19:27.199 And then Ted would also later be reported by his 1295 01:19:27.319 --> 01:19:36.039 fiance Liz Deadpuss enthusiast Captford. But while we're talking about 1296 01:19:36.159 --> 01:19:39.720 and Rule, I want to go over a couple points 1297 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:45.560 here because it's important. In the late sixties, Bundy briefly 1298 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:52.560 dated Kathy Swindler, daughter of Herb Swindler, who would later 1299 01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:57.399 become head of homicide with the Seattle Police Department during 1300 01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:01.680 the beginning of the murder spree. He was also, of course, 1301 01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:07.319 a longtime friend of Anne Rules. What do you think 1302 01:20:07.359 --> 01:20:08.960 about that? That's fucking nuts. 1303 01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:11.880 Yeah, these are small circles. 1304 01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:17.960 Literally. Anne Rule had at least second hand connections to 1305 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:23.720 two Bundy victims. Denise Naslin that disappeared from Lake Samamish 1306 01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:27.119 babysat for a friend of hers, and Brenda Ball was 1307 01:20:27.159 --> 01:20:30.960 an acquaintance of her daughters. So Anne Rule is the 1308 01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:34.600 first she attends the summit. She works with Bundy. She 1309 01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:38.920 is a true crime author, She's good with stories and shit, 1310 01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:47.640 and she knows two of the victims, and fucking I mean, it's. 1311 01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:50.359 Just what she's speared to me, constructing the whole thing 1312 01:20:50.479 --> 01:20:51.840 to help her writing career. 1313 01:20:52.359 --> 01:20:53.840 It's not to help her writing career. 1314 01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:57.359 I bet she's a true crime novelist. She's basically creating 1315 01:20:58.199 --> 01:21:00.279 or she's right in the middle of all the shit 1316 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:00.920 that's going on. 1317 01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:02.800 That's going to be the main thing she's probably gonna 1318 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:04.600 write about for the rest of her life. 1319 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:08.680 I mean, I don't know her work outside of this stuff. 1320 01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:10.000 I've read a ton of her book. 1321 01:21:10.079 --> 01:21:11.920 Her claim to fame is this. 1322 01:21:12.399 --> 01:21:14.439 Yeah, so the Stranger beside Me. 1323 01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:19.880 If this was some cheesy, fucking eighties action movie, think 1324 01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:21.479 of Basic Instinct. 1325 01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:28.000 You know that was the premise, was that Sharon Stone's 1326 01:21:28.079 --> 01:21:35.439 character was a mystery novelist. I'm not necessarily saying that's 1327 01:21:35.439 --> 01:21:37.039 what I think is going on, but it is just 1328 01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:42.600 weird that she's she knows him, she has connections to 1329 01:21:42.640 --> 01:21:47.039 the victims, and she's at this summit and days later, 1330 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:50.319 this other thing happens, and then she reports him to 1331 01:21:50.359 --> 01:21:51.039 the TED squad. 1332 01:21:51.399 --> 01:21:51.720 Yep. 1333 01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:56.840 Awfully weird places to be for a woman who's not related. 1334 01:21:56.479 --> 01:22:00.520 To any of it. Yeah, no, I know, I don't 1335 01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:01.880 even know why she was there. 1336 01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:05.279 Well, I mean, at the conference, I can understand why 1337 01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:06.920 she was there, But she just happens to be in 1338 01:22:07.000 --> 01:22:09.840 all these weird places and tight end with all these 1339 01:22:09.880 --> 01:22:13.159 people of various aspects of this of this Bundy saga. 1340 01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:23.399 And you know, she does kind of play a part 1341 01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:28.359 in what happens after he gets arrested, because she was 1342 01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:31.239 one of the ones that was Like, she's guilty of 1343 01:22:31.279 --> 01:22:34.760 sensationalizing him too, you know, So if she's a part 1344 01:22:34.760 --> 01:22:38.439 of the beginning, she's a part of like the after too, 1345 01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:42.600 like the aftermath of it, writing books and going on 1346 01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:46.800 TV talking about interviews of his character and this stranger 1347 01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:51.479 beside me and all this stuff. Like she made a 1348 01:22:51.760 --> 01:22:54.359 celebrity out of him, you know, she was one of. 1349 01:22:54.279 --> 01:22:57.880 The first ones and herself mm hmmm, I mean she's 1350 01:22:57.920 --> 01:22:59.119 making herself famous. 1351 01:22:59.479 --> 01:23:07.760 Yeah. Another interesting point is that anthropologist Daris Swindler, who'd 1352 01:23:07.880 --> 01:23:12.560 worked on identifying some of Bundy's victims in Washington, happened 1353 01:23:12.560 --> 01:23:15.199 to be in Tallahassee on the night of the kya 1354 01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:16.359 Omega murders. 1355 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:21.199 Why is an anthropologist helping identify victims? 1356 01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:21.760 Is that just. 1357 01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:26.560 Like that's just happened to be what he does. He's 1358 01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:28.319 an anthropologist, he's not like a. 1359 01:23:28.560 --> 01:23:34.359 And he's related to Kathy Swindler, the girl he dated. 1360 01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:37.920 Where is it. Yeah, he's related to Kathy Swindler, the 1361 01:23:37.920 --> 01:23:41.560 one he dated, and Herb Swindler, the one who became 1362 01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:45.600 the head of homicide during the murders Free and he's 1363 01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:48.840 in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders. 1364 01:23:48.840 --> 01:23:49.079 See. 1365 01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:51.520 That's always the things you gotta look for is people 1366 01:23:51.560 --> 01:23:55.399 that keep I mean this is literally on the opposite 1367 01:23:55.479 --> 01:23:57.199 corner of the United States. 1368 01:23:57.479 --> 01:24:03.159 Yeah, and right in Washington, Washington, and then he shows 1369 01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:06.520 up in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders. 1370 01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:07.079 Yeah. 1371 01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:09.000 I mean, these kind of things are the one They're 1372 01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:13.319 the ones that make me think the most that you 1373 01:24:13.359 --> 01:24:15.079 can say it and say it and say it and 1374 01:24:15.119 --> 01:24:17.880 say it till you're blue in the face. You can't 1375 01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:21.199 believe in coincidences when they keep happening. 1376 01:24:20.800 --> 01:24:24.600 In the most convenient ways. There are there is such 1377 01:24:24.600 --> 01:24:27.960 a thing as coincidence, but not usually in this kind 1378 01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:28.279 of shit. 1379 01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:35.760 Well, and to even drive that point home further about coincidences, 1380 01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:40.159 Bundy was born on the twenty fourth of November, executed 1381 01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:43.840 on the twenty fourth of January, and his inmate ID 1382 01:24:44.239 --> 01:24:48.600 zero six nine zero six three sums up to twenty four. 1383 01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:53.560 So we have three twenty fours, four five, six, six 1384 01:24:53.680 --> 01:24:56.880 sixty six. Are you getting Jamatria, No, I'm saying four 1385 01:24:56.920 --> 01:25:01.279 plus two is six, so six six six, I'm. 1386 01:25:01.119 --> 01:25:04.199 Just saying, hey, it is. So does Ted Bundy really 1387 01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:04.680 the devil? 1388 01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:07.960 I don't know. I think it's all part of the game. 1389 01:25:09.039 --> 01:25:12.760 You know, it's like a joke to them, the twenty fourth, 1390 01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:17.119 twenty fourth. His number is the twenty fourth. What do 1391 01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:19.640 you think I might look for stuff in numbers? 1392 01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:23.359 Yeah, I on my show, my co host, he's really 1393 01:25:23.359 --> 01:25:28.359 big into another numerical patterns, whether it be numerology, Jamatria, 1394 01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:30.479 goa Matria. 1395 01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:33.560 He'll correct me if I say it wrong, But yeah, 1396 01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:37.079 I like, I think they're fun. But I don't put 1397 01:25:37.079 --> 01:25:39.000 as much stock in that kind of shit as I 1398 01:25:39.039 --> 01:25:40.880 do the other shit. We were just talking about where 1399 01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:43.680 this guy's here and he happens to help identify the bodies, 1400 01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:45.359 and then wouldn't you know it, he just happens to 1401 01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:48.359 be in Tallahassee the night though. That shit, to me 1402 01:25:48.479 --> 01:25:51.399 is more interesting than like, I'll look at all these 1403 01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:54.239 numbers shit, and yeah, I'm probably that even was planned 1404 01:25:54.279 --> 01:25:55.520 out by somebody. 1405 01:25:55.119 --> 01:25:59.840 But I think you're right about like looking for the 1406 01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:03.079 connections with this guy identifying the victims and stuff. 1407 01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:05.319 Well, and it's not just him. I mean, throughout all 1408 01:26:05.359 --> 01:26:13.199 these stories, there's very conveniently placed people that play crucial 1409 01:26:13.319 --> 01:26:18.399 roles in totally unrelated things or a big, big like 1410 01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:22.399 mass operation like Ted Bundy where it is related, but 1411 01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:26.319 still like the just the small chances that he would 1412 01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:29.439 be at those two places. He's a character in all this. 1413 01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:30.079 Yep. 1414 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:33.279 So those are the patterns I like to point out. 1415 01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:34.960 The numbers thing is fun, don't. 1416 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:37.159 Yeah, no, I think it is at least and you 1417 01:26:37.199 --> 01:26:43.520 know how I am about the eights. So it was 1418 01:26:43.640 --> 01:26:47.600 later determined that both girls who disappeared from Lake Samamish 1419 01:26:47.720 --> 01:26:50.720 had been strangled or bludg into death, but that was 1420 01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:56.359 a largely speculative conclusion. Only the girl's skulls and a 1421 01:26:56.399 --> 01:27:00.560 few assorted bones were ever found, and actually the fact 1422 01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:03.760 that only the skulls of the girls were ever found 1423 01:27:04.119 --> 01:27:08.560 further fueled the belief that the killings were somehow cult related. 1424 01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:13.600 Police at the time said occultism and Satan worship always 1425 01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:18.079 found a home with many practitioners around Seattle. And I've 1426 01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:21.359 heard a lot of people I actually had a lady 1427 01:27:21.399 --> 01:27:24.880 on my show talk about Seattle is like crazy with it. 1428 01:27:26.079 --> 01:27:26.920 I mean, it is. 1429 01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:32.680 A strange city. I've been there and just all of 1430 01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:38.960 the innovation that's taken place there, Peck industry, lots of 1431 01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:44.399 the corporate shit started there, and it's just it's an 1432 01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:48.600 oddly placed city, kind of nustled off of the Pugot 1433 01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:52.640 Sound or is it fugit, but it's I felt like 1434 01:27:52.720 --> 01:27:55.520 that city shouldn't be there the way it's built. 1435 01:27:55.640 --> 01:27:57.319 And San Francisco is very similar. 1436 01:27:57.399 --> 01:28:01.399 There's just hills where they build these roads that are 1437 01:28:01.439 --> 01:28:03.960 just just like you're on a roller coaster. It's not 1438 01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:06.359 a good place to learn how to drive stick shift. 1439 01:28:07.520 --> 01:28:11.600 And it's just like, what is it about these certain 1440 01:28:11.720 --> 01:28:15.960 focal points that have chosen you know, maybe Freemasons knew 1441 01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:18.279 something about this is where a town needs to be 1442 01:28:18.479 --> 01:28:21.399 or whatever. Have fun with your imagination on That could 1443 01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:24.359 be a number of reasons, but there's a reason certain cities. 1444 01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:24.840 Are where they are. 1445 01:28:25.359 --> 01:28:28.359 Eugene, Oregon's another great example of that. There's some kind 1446 01:28:28.399 --> 01:28:31.680 of frequency with Eugene, Oregon where the Russians and the 1447 01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:34.960 CIA were using it as a focal point to test 1448 01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:40.079 all this weird technology on us on each other. But 1449 01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:45.439 getting back to the point of Seattle, the music scene also, 1450 01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:50.079 and just you go to Seattle and surrounding areas and 1451 01:28:50.119 --> 01:28:54.880 it's just foggy and dreary, and then there's Heroin and 1452 01:28:55.399 --> 01:29:01.720 fucking Starbucks, and it's just a weird feeling that you 1453 01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:02.560 feel it when you're there. 1454 01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:04.720 Anyway, I'm speaking for myself, but I've. 1455 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:07.000 Heard other people say that, like, if you want to 1456 01:29:07.039 --> 01:29:09.479 be if you fucking want to cure a depression, you 1457 01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:10.640 don't move to Seattle. 1458 01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:13.520 Well, yeah, and they filmed a lot of Twilight there 1459 01:29:13.560 --> 01:29:14.720 for that reason. 1460 01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:16.960 Was that in Seattle or Portland. 1461 01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:19.039 They filmed it some in Portland and. 1462 01:29:19.000 --> 01:29:21.439 Some in Seattle, and Portland to me, is very similar 1463 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:25.640 in the dreariness, it's not quite the same. I mean, 1464 01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:29.199 the atmosphere is similar, but Seattle just seems weird, like 1465 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:31.720 the energy's off. Yeah, probably like Eugene. 1466 01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:35.199 I lived in Eugene for about six months. 1467 01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:41.640 Did your nipples get hard, Well, they're always hard. Did 1468 01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:42.239 you feel weird? 1469 01:29:42.279 --> 01:29:42.520 Though? 1470 01:29:43.079 --> 01:29:45.239 I thought it was the strangest city I've ever lived in. 1471 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:50.119 I actually drove a two am to six am paper 1472 01:29:50.199 --> 01:29:53.079 route and there was like another city that just emerged 1473 01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:56.680 at night. Like I kind of started believing vampires after 1474 01:29:56.720 --> 01:30:00.600 I lived in there. You just see weird shit. 1475 01:30:00.479 --> 01:30:04.960 At night, and like skin walkers, no. 1476 01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:07.000 Just like people that seem out of place. 1477 01:30:07.039 --> 01:30:13.119 And I'm not talking about junkies, they're just like they're different. Yeah, 1478 01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:17.600 And it's it's weird because I mean I was driving 1479 01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:20.960 in all different parts of the city and wherever you went, 1480 01:30:21.079 --> 01:30:25.680 every night, I would see something weird. And I just 1481 01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:29.520 got to thinking, like after years after I lived there, 1482 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:31.840 and I learned all of this stuff that Jeremiah was 1483 01:30:31.840 --> 01:30:36.159 researching for an episode we did, He's talking about Eugene, 1484 01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:38.680 and it's just like, God, that makes all sorts of 1485 01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:41.399 sense to me that that's where they were. 1486 01:30:41.239 --> 01:30:45.119 Doing that Well, whatever experiments they were conducting could have 1487 01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:47.640 fucking made fucking vampires out of these people. 1488 01:30:47.800 --> 01:30:54.840 Well, and also phonetically eugenics you can't spell you eugenics. Yeah, 1489 01:30:54.880 --> 01:30:56.279 eugene is literally the. 1490 01:30:56.199 --> 01:30:57.720 First several genics. 1491 01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:01.039 It's the first several letters of that word. I don't 1492 01:31:01.079 --> 01:31:05.359 know if that's why it's named that. Oh my god, 1493 01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:07.079 I didn't come up with that, by the way. 1494 01:31:07.119 --> 01:31:11.640 Well, you know, uh, you know when I figured out vampires. 1495 01:31:11.119 --> 01:31:12.720 Morial when you watch Twilight. 1496 01:31:13.000 --> 01:31:19.199 No, when I started researching Nicholas Cage, I think he's 1497 01:31:19.239 --> 01:31:19.880 a vampire. 1498 01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:22.039 Well, there's that movie where's running down the street going. 1499 01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:26.399 He played a vampire recently? 1500 01:31:26.920 --> 01:31:30.199 Well he supposed Yeah, it was the remake Rinfield. Yeah, 1501 01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:33.920 so Nicholas Cage also might be a time traveler. 1502 01:31:33.920 --> 01:31:35.880 But if he's a vampire, he'd be immortal. 1503 01:31:35.960 --> 01:31:38.640 That would explain why have you seen his. 1504 01:31:38.359 --> 01:31:40.239 Civil War era portrait? 1505 01:31:41.119 --> 01:31:44.079 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But if he's a vampire, 1506 01:31:44.159 --> 01:31:46.920 you know, yeah. 1507 01:31:46.720 --> 01:31:49.760 He could have just turned. I mean, Nicholas Cages even 1508 01:31:49.760 --> 01:31:52.399 when he was young, he looked old. Yeah, he's always 1509 01:31:52.439 --> 01:31:58.159 had that Nicholas Cage hairline. Uh huh, he's a Coppola. Yes, 1510 01:31:58.239 --> 01:32:00.000 if there's a bank fucking family of vampire. 1511 01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:04.560 Well, I found his tombstone and it's in New Orleans 1512 01:32:04.880 --> 01:32:09.000 and it's a big white pyramid cage. No, it had 1513 01:32:09.039 --> 01:32:10.960 some weird Latin shit on it. 1514 01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:13.840 But it's a picture of him. Like, what do you 1515 01:32:13.880 --> 01:32:14.960 mean you found his tomb? 1516 01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:16.880 He bought the tombstone ahead of time. 1517 01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:19.840 Oh, it's yeah, and he bought it like in the 1518 01:32:19.880 --> 01:32:21.159 seventeen hundreds. 1519 01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:24.000 And it's white marble and it has weird Latin shit 1520 01:32:24.039 --> 01:32:26.399 on it. It's the most culty looking thing I've ever seen. 1521 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:29.279 Do you wanna do you want to see it? 1522 01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:31.359 Let's keep going that you can show me after. 1523 01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:36.800 Yeah. Well, anyways, kind of getting back to the weirdness 1524 01:32:36.880 --> 01:32:40.880 with Ted. Many people at the time were convinced that 1525 01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:44.880 an offshoot of the Charles Manson family had moved to 1526 01:32:44.920 --> 01:32:47.720 the Seattle area and had begun a new reign of 1527 01:32:47.800 --> 01:32:51.319 terror led by fucking Ted quote unquote, because they hadn't 1528 01:32:51.319 --> 01:32:54.800 identified Ted Bundy yet, and so people were coming to 1529 01:32:54.840 --> 01:32:57.800 their own conclusions. There's cattle mutilations and all this other 1530 01:32:57.880 --> 01:33:00.880 bs going on. You remember all those murders I talked 1531 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:04.560 about in the last episode that were attributed to family members, 1532 01:33:04.720 --> 01:33:07.600 but they kind of were like swept under the rug, 1533 01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:14.239 like late later on, like disciples of the family became murderers. Well, 1534 01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:17.920 they thought of fucking Charles Manson family member moved to 1535 01:33:17.960 --> 01:33:20.920 Seattle and started isn't it interesting how people are so 1536 01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:23.119 smart and they don't even know it, like putting fucking 1537 01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:25.119 those two together like a connection. 1538 01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:28.479 Well, and what if Ted. 1539 01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:33.199 Was himself a member of the family whoever Ted is 1540 01:33:34.039 --> 01:33:37.119 because he did come down to the Bay area m hm, 1541 01:33:37.319 --> 01:33:38.920 and that was in the seventies. 1542 01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:41.720 But I don't do you know that the year he 1543 01:33:41.800 --> 01:33:46.560 was born Ted? Uh huh. I'm assuming it would have 1544 01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:54.720 been late forties, forty six, forty six, so he easily 1545 01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:56.520 would have been old enough to be wrapped up in 1546 01:33:56.560 --> 01:33:57.279 all that stuff. 1547 01:33:57.439 --> 01:33:59.319 Oh my gosh. He died at forty two. 1548 01:33:59.399 --> 01:34:02.399 So that's another that's also twenty four in reverse. 1549 01:34:03.800 --> 01:34:05.359 Yeah, so there you go. 1550 01:34:06.439 --> 01:34:08.600 I'm sold it's all about twenty four. 1551 01:34:09.199 --> 01:34:13.680 Well, so, some on the police force were convinced that 1552 01:34:13.760 --> 01:34:18.920 there was cult involvement in the murders, and a hefty 1553 01:34:19.079 --> 01:34:23.800 file on occult activities in the area had been assembled, 1554 01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:29.000 referred to as File one zero zero four. But of 1555 01:34:29.039 --> 01:34:33.680 course the occult theories were ridiculed by county police and prosecutors. 1556 01:34:34.079 --> 01:34:36.880 But they did the same thing with the Manson murders. 1557 01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:41.760 So Ted eventually moved to Utah to attend law school 1558 01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:45.279 at the University of Utah, where he worked as a 1559 01:34:45.479 --> 01:34:51.039 fucking campus security guard. Ironically, and the first Utah victim 1560 01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:56.680 credited to Ted was Nancy Wilcox, last seen on October second, 1561 01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:02.159 nineteen seventy four. She was never seen again, dead or alive. 1562 01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:08.319 Melissa Smith was the next to vanish. On October eighteenth, 1563 01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:14.960 her intact nude body was found strangled and bludgeoned. But 1564 01:35:15.159 --> 01:35:19.920 here's the thing. The body had been almost entirely drained 1565 01:35:20.079 --> 01:35:24.119 of blood and revealed a fucking bombshell that blows the 1566 01:35:24.159 --> 01:35:29.680 Ted Bundy mainstream narrative to shit. Melissa had not been 1567 01:35:29.840 --> 01:35:34.199 killed immediately, but she had been kept alive for up 1568 01:35:34.199 --> 01:35:39.760 to a week after her disappearance. But with that in mind, 1569 01:35:40.239 --> 01:35:44.159 wouldn't it be odd to find out that her fucking 1570 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:48.600 makeup was undisturbed, none of her nails were broken, and 1571 01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:55.079 there was no signs of ligatures. If she was held 1572 01:35:55.640 --> 01:35:59.960 against her will prior to her murder, there was appslce 1573 01:36:00.520 --> 01:36:04.960 no indication of that fact. If it was Ted Bundy 1574 01:36:05.039 --> 01:36:08.479 who held her for that duration of time, then he 1575 01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:13.680 had to have had fucking accomplices and wouldn't you also 1576 01:36:13.920 --> 01:36:18.079 like to know that the day after Melissa's disappearance, Bundy 1577 01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:23.600 fucked off on a hunting trip with his fiancee's father. Oh, 1578 01:36:23.640 --> 01:36:26.560 by the way, Melissa just so happened to be the 1579 01:36:26.640 --> 01:36:31.279 daughter of the chief of police in Midville, Utah. So 1580 01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:35.479 what I'm gathering from this, kind of like the smiley 1581 01:36:35.479 --> 01:36:38.319 face killers because they're finding out they're being held somewhere 1582 01:36:38.359 --> 01:36:43.119 for a long time before they're killed, is that this 1583 01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:47.920 doesn't fit the Ted Bundy narrative at fucking all. She 1584 01:36:48.159 --> 01:36:53.520 was entirely drained of blood, but she wasn't bludgeoned or 1585 01:36:54.039 --> 01:36:58.800 fucking suffocated or any of the other Ted Bundy victims. 1586 01:36:59.479 --> 01:37:02.840 She was up alive for up to a week, and 1587 01:37:03.039 --> 01:37:06.239 her makeup was undisturbed. None of her nails were broken. 1588 01:37:06.279 --> 01:37:08.039 There was no sign. You know how I look in 1589 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:10.760 the morning when I wake up, how my makeup? Is 1590 01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:13.680 you telling me? She was completely drained of blood and 1591 01:37:13.760 --> 01:37:17.119 kidnapped for a week and her makeup was completely pristine, 1592 01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:21.880 No nails, nothing, no signs of literatures, no bludgeoning. It 1593 01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:25.680 doesn't even fit. And he's actually supposed to be on 1594 01:37:25.760 --> 01:37:27.479 a fucking hunting trip when this. 1595 01:37:27.359 --> 01:37:32.560 Is going down, Well, whether I mean that right there. 1596 01:37:32.640 --> 01:37:34.359 He would have had to have. 1597 01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:40.239 Nabbed her, stored her somewhere, went on this hunting trip, 1598 01:37:40.319 --> 01:37:42.720 which oftentimes. 1599 01:37:42.039 --> 01:37:44.039 Those can last up to a week. 1600 01:37:44.279 --> 01:37:44.720 Mm hmm. 1601 01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:48.319 So he gets back and then just finishes her off 1602 01:37:48.439 --> 01:37:52.880 or yet has nothing to do with them. But like 1603 01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:53.920 you're saying, it's not his. 1604 01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:54.760 M at all. 1605 01:37:55.479 --> 01:38:00.800 No, And because if you put her somewhere for a 1606 01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:03.319 week while you were on the hunting trip, she would 1607 01:38:03.319 --> 01:38:07.319 have cried, She would have scratched Claude escape. He could 1608 01:38:07.319 --> 01:38:10.840 have had her somewhere secure and like drug Yeah, or 1609 01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:11.880 so she's not crying. 1610 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:16.119 I mean he had gone for several days, he would 1611 01:38:16.159 --> 01:38:18.560 have had to given her access to water. But yeah, 1612 01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:21.000 we're entertaining that. Yeah, it doesn't mean it wasn't him, 1613 01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:22.800 but it doesn't sound likely either. 1614 01:38:23.239 --> 01:38:26.680 No, and she happens to be the daughter of the 1615 01:38:26.760 --> 01:38:27.720 chief of police. 1616 01:38:28.119 --> 01:38:29.640 Yeah, I don't know. 1617 01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:31.520 It could have been a targeted type of thing too, 1618 01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:34.640 like a like a hit or a message to that guy, 1619 01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:36.479 or he's involved. 1620 01:38:36.119 --> 01:38:36.640 In some shit. 1621 01:38:36.920 --> 01:38:37.359 Mm hmm. 1622 01:38:38.319 --> 01:38:42.479 So Melissa's disappearance was followed by that of Laura Amy, 1623 01:38:42.600 --> 01:38:46.800 who vanished on Halloween night nineteen seventy four. Amy was 1624 01:38:46.920 --> 01:38:50.520 also reportedly held for up to a week before her murder, 1625 01:38:51.079 --> 01:38:54.960 and yet the hair on her strangled and bludgeoned corpse 1626 01:38:55.119 --> 01:38:59.880 had been freshly shampooed just before or just after her death. 1627 01:39:00.600 --> 01:39:03.560 Forensic tests revealed that she had been drunk at the 1628 01:39:03.560 --> 01:39:07.560 time of her death as well. The local sheriff mac 1629 01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:12.159 hauley was sold on another suspect as Laura's killer, a 1630 01:39:12.199 --> 01:39:15.840 man who was later convicted of the brutal sex slaying 1631 01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:19.479 of his own girlfriend. And get this shit, the fucking 1632 01:39:19.560 --> 01:39:24.640 sheriff mac Hauley told the fucking ted squad, quote, Bundy 1633 01:39:24.760 --> 01:39:28.079 had nothing to do with our case, So forget him. 1634 01:39:28.359 --> 01:39:31.560 That man didn't do our case. I wish you'd get 1635 01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:37.439 that through your head in't quote. So Amy has found 1636 01:39:39.760 --> 01:39:45.119 right after Melissa fucking disappeared, and they're both found completely 1637 01:39:46.119 --> 01:39:50.359 or like she's not drained of blood. So they're both 1638 01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:55.680 found having been stashed somewhere for a week, and both 1639 01:39:55.720 --> 01:39:58.760 of them have been like either redressed or like hair 1640 01:39:58.880 --> 01:40:03.720 shampooed or make up done, or like this does not 1641 01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:07.960 And then the sheriff says, this is not Bundy, Please 1642 01:40:08.039 --> 01:40:10.880 fucking get off the Bundy thing. But there's still both 1643 01:40:10.960 --> 01:40:16.000 Melissa and Laura. They are attributed to Ted Bundy. It 1644 01:40:16.159 --> 01:40:18.640 just doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like 1645 01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:20.680 a bunch of random shit that they put on him. 1646 01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:24.159 Yeah, reminiscent of Zodiac. 1647 01:40:24.439 --> 01:40:29.479 Yeah. There were indications that Laura had some awareness that 1648 01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:33.479 her life was in danger. Her mother reported that she 1649 01:40:33.920 --> 01:40:36.479 had said to her a few weeks before her death, 1650 01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:40.359 out of the blue, quote, mother, at my funeral, I 1651 01:40:40.520 --> 01:40:44.199 don't want to be buried in addressed end quote? Is 1652 01:40:44.279 --> 01:40:46.920 this just a spiritual thing? Like she knew she was 1653 01:40:46.960 --> 01:40:51.840 gonna die? Or did she know something? Oh? The holding 1654 01:40:51.880 --> 01:40:55.199 of the victims for over a week is reminiscent of 1655 01:40:55.239 --> 01:40:58.039 the Smiley Face killings as well that we kind of 1656 01:40:58.079 --> 01:41:01.560 touched on at the beginning with Gacy. 1657 01:41:02.399 --> 01:41:04.479 Yeah, the mo o and styles the same, but the 1658 01:41:04.600 --> 01:41:05.479 victims are women. 1659 01:41:05.920 --> 01:41:09.399 Yeah, And what I was getting at is it a 1660 01:41:09.439 --> 01:41:12.920 spiritual thing or did she know something? Is Laura Amy 1661 01:41:13.039 --> 01:41:15.159 told her mom that she was going to die, like 1662 01:41:15.279 --> 01:41:16.560 right before she died. 1663 01:41:17.479 --> 01:41:19.680 Well, she was talking about her funeral. Did she know 1664 01:41:19.760 --> 01:41:20.880 it was going to be that week? 1665 01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:23.960 Well, we don't know what the fuck she was into. 1666 01:41:24.199 --> 01:41:26.279 People say weird shit like that, but it is. It 1667 01:41:26.319 --> 01:41:28.520 is strange that she said it at that time. 1668 01:41:28.640 --> 01:41:30.079 Do you think it's a coincidence. 1669 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:33.039 I don't know, Probably not. 1670 01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:35.840 So we're going to get a little bit more into 1671 01:41:35.880 --> 01:41:39.159 what Colby was talking about earlier with this last couple 1672 01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:43.359 with these last couple points here. So, the night of 1673 01:41:43.439 --> 01:41:47.399 November eighth, nineteen seventy four was supposedly a very busy 1674 01:41:47.520 --> 01:41:52.399 night for Ted Bundy. He first allegedly attempt to abduct 1675 01:41:52.439 --> 01:41:54.800 a girl by the name of Carol Deranch from a 1676 01:41:54.840 --> 01:41:59.239 shopping mall in Murray, Utah. Failing in that endeavor, he 1677 01:41:59.319 --> 01:42:03.800 went to a completely different towns supposedly and abducted Deborah 1678 01:42:03.880 --> 01:42:07.920 Kent from outside the building where a school play was 1679 01:42:07.960 --> 01:42:12.079 going on. And Kin's body was never found. But the 1680 01:42:12.159 --> 01:42:16.399 fucking problem with this official version of events is that 1681 01:42:16.680 --> 01:42:20.000 it would have been physically impossible for Ted Bundy or 1682 01:42:20.039 --> 01:42:24.119 anyone else to have committed both of those crimes. First 1683 01:42:24.159 --> 01:42:27.520 of all, the descriptions given by witnesses at the two 1684 01:42:27.560 --> 01:42:33.720 crime scenes differed considerably. Fucking Deranch described her attempted abductor 1685 01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:37.399 as having slicked back hair and the strong scent of 1686 01:42:37.479 --> 01:42:41.279 alcohol on his breath. At the school, the suspect was 1687 01:42:41.319 --> 01:42:45.920 described as having long, brown, wavy hair, and was said 1688 01:42:45.960 --> 01:42:49.640 to be handsome and well dressed and with no hint 1689 01:42:49.680 --> 01:42:55.119 of alcohol on his breath. Sure Ted could have changed 1690 01:42:55.159 --> 01:42:59.159 his clothes, washed and restyled his hair, and swished with 1691 01:42:59.279 --> 01:43:03.520 some fucking list sometime between the commission of the two crimes, 1692 01:43:03.880 --> 01:43:07.560 but he would have had to do so while driving 1693 01:43:07.600 --> 01:43:11.399 his Volkswagen at over one hundred miles per hour over 1694 01:43:11.520 --> 01:43:17.600 rain soaked streets. Why because the two fucking crime scenes 1695 01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:22.000 were twenty six miles apart, and according to the narrative, 1696 01:43:22.359 --> 01:43:26.760 only fifteen minutes passed between his departure from the Deraj 1697 01:43:26.880 --> 01:43:30.119 abduction and his first sighting at the school. 1698 01:43:30.399 --> 01:43:33.279 And everybody knows that Volkswagens don't go one hundred miles 1699 01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:33.680 per hour. 1700 01:43:34.199 --> 01:43:37.640 No way, no fucking way. But I mean, it's like 1701 01:43:37.720 --> 01:43:41.039 you were saying, there's no way, and it gets the 1702 01:43:41.079 --> 01:43:46.159 same way in Florida, obviously, But this is the first time, Yeah, 1703 01:43:46.159 --> 01:43:48.159 in the timelines not adding up, and. 1704 01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:50.880 I don't remember the exact logistics of it, but the 1705 01:43:50.920 --> 01:43:55.600 one in Florida, one of the murders does seem like 1706 01:43:55.760 --> 01:43:58.960 Ted's emo, if there even is one. But what we're 1707 01:43:58.960 --> 01:43:59.600 told is. 1708 01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:02.760 And then the other one that they also pinned on him. 1709 01:44:02.800 --> 01:44:04.319 It was a scenario a lot like this. 1710 01:44:05.159 --> 01:44:12.520 It was like two different counties and the victim, victim 1711 01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:17.479 b she was like a little girl, I think like Kimberly. 1712 01:44:18.039 --> 01:44:21.319 She was like twelve twelve, And that wasn't something that 1713 01:44:21.359 --> 01:44:24.039 he had done. And I'm not saying that he wasn't 1714 01:44:24.039 --> 01:44:27.880 capable of all sorts of evil, but the fact that 1715 01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:30.359 he that was pinned on him with this other one, 1716 01:44:31.800 --> 01:44:35.199 it's a lot like the one you just talked about, and. 1717 01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:38.239 It didn't match any of the victims. 1718 01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:44.439 Well, it's just what you see throughout his story, inconsistencies, oles, 1719 01:44:46.159 --> 01:44:50.920 weird people showing up in multiple places throughout, like an 1720 01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:55.079 anthropologist identifying bodies. Nobody knows that's. 1721 01:44:55.000 --> 01:44:59.760 What anthropologists do, right, And so it's not like. 1722 01:44:59.760 --> 01:45:03.119 They were digging up lost societies, right, Like, why was 1723 01:45:03.159 --> 01:45:05.159 this guy identify helping identify bodies? 1724 01:45:05.199 --> 01:45:08.239 It doesn't make sense. And there was an interview. I 1725 01:45:08.239 --> 01:45:10.680 don't know if you did you watch the Ted Bundy tapes. 1726 01:45:10.920 --> 01:45:11.319 I didn't. 1727 01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:13.119 I mean I probably. 1728 01:45:12.840 --> 01:45:15.760 Already that I may have tried them out, but a 1729 01:45:15.760 --> 01:45:18.119 lot of that Netflix stuff I just got fed up with. 1730 01:45:18.399 --> 01:45:19.279 It just was so. 1731 01:45:20.880 --> 01:45:24.159 Uh, mainstream there not even that it was just redundant. 1732 01:45:24.279 --> 01:45:26.239 You could have had like ten episodes b. 1733 01:45:26.319 --> 01:45:28.680 One like they draw it out. 1734 01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:31.239 Yeah, and it's just like a lot of stuff already knew. 1735 01:45:31.279 --> 01:45:34.000 But anyway you were gonna Well, there was. 1736 01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:37.159 An interview that was in the tapes where they asked him, 1737 01:45:37.239 --> 01:45:40.359 have you ever done anything to hurt anybody? And the 1738 01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:44.319 way that he answers the question is like, well, it's 1739 01:45:44.359 --> 01:45:48.880 not me kind of, but I mean he says like, well, 1740 01:45:49.079 --> 01:45:54.560 I've never directly done anything to hurt anybody, is how 1741 01:45:54.600 --> 01:46:00.600 he said it. That's how he said it. Ever, I've 1742 01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:02.520 never directly done anything. 1743 01:46:03.199 --> 01:46:06.920 So he's saying he's a patsy. Yeah, I don't know. 1744 01:46:08.119 --> 01:46:12.760 He also supposedly wanted to confess to a lot of 1745 01:46:12.800 --> 01:46:15.359 it and helped find other bodies. 1746 01:46:15.039 --> 01:46:16.039 Even though he never did. 1747 01:46:16.439 --> 01:46:19.760 Yeah, it was like we said earlier, he was, yeah, 1748 01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:23.359 putting off that old fucking date with death. 1749 01:46:23.840 --> 01:46:28.960 M Well, these times that we're talking about were recorded 1750 01:46:29.079 --> 01:46:32.760 in police logs, so it was well known to the 1751 01:46:32.880 --> 01:46:36.600 members of the Ted squad that it wouldn't have even 1752 01:46:36.680 --> 01:46:40.359 been fucking possible for Bundy to essentially be in two 1753 01:46:40.439 --> 01:46:44.640 places at once. But even still, they pretended as though 1754 01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:48.600 both crimes were the work of the elusive Ted, even 1755 01:46:48.680 --> 01:46:52.640 after a drama teacher at the second crime scene positively 1756 01:46:52.760 --> 01:46:57.800 identified a drug dealer who was also the initial suspect 1757 01:46:57.920 --> 01:47:03.680 in another alleged Bundy victim, Deborah Kent case. So Deborah 1758 01:47:03.720 --> 01:47:05.920 Kent was the one that they found with their hair 1759 01:47:05.960 --> 01:47:11.039 freshly shampooed. They identified this same drug dealer with Deborah Kint, 1760 01:47:11.119 --> 01:47:13.920 as they did with the person who abducted the girl 1761 01:47:13.960 --> 01:47:17.319 at the school, but they're still blamed on Ted, even 1762 01:47:17.359 --> 01:47:20.479 though it's physically impossible for that who have even happened. 1763 01:47:21.840 --> 01:47:24.920 So I don't know what you think about that, but 1764 01:47:25.720 --> 01:47:30.479 we're gonna get into even more of this type of 1765 01:47:30.520 --> 01:47:37.840 information in the fourth and final episode, and hopefully we've 1766 01:47:37.960 --> 01:47:43.279 convinced everyone that these serial killers do have blood ties. 1767 01:47:44.119 --> 01:47:50.039 Woo is there anything you think I left out or Nope? 1768 01:47:50.079 --> 01:47:56.720 Any closing words? Good job, thanks honey. Well, we will 1769 01:47:56.720 --> 01:48:00.680 see you back next week for like said, the fourth 1770 01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:06.720 and final episode in blood Ties. But until then, there 1771 01:48:06.920 --> 01:48:12.279 is one very important vital piece of information I need 1772 01:48:12.279 --> 01:48:15.680 you to learn just as soon as humanly possible. 1773 01:48:17.880 --> 01:48:18.159 Life. 1774 01:48:22.800 --> 01:48:24.560 Well, yes, I should just ask how are you doing 1775 01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:24.920 out here? 1776 01:48:26.119 --> 01:48:31.479 So short question deserving a long answer. I'm doing well. 1777 01:48:31.520 --> 01:48:32.159 I feel good. 1778 01:48:32.520 --> 01:48:37.439 Yeah, working hard in my case, you need a lot 1779 01:48:37.479 --> 01:48:39.560 more sun and a lot more fresh air. 1780 01:48:39.640 --> 01:48:40.960 But other than that, I'm doing okay. 1781 01:48:41.159 --> 01:48:42.680 Do you get fresh air? 1782 01:48:42.960 --> 01:48:44.479 Sam, do you get out well? 1783 01:48:44.520 --> 01:48:45.760 I get to go to the library. 1784 01:48:46.840 --> 01:48:50.079 It's a fifty yard walk from here, across this, across 1785 01:48:50.159 --> 01:48:51.000 the parking. 1786 01:48:50.640 --> 01:48:52.520 Lot to the library. That's my fresh air. 1787 01:48:53.000 --> 01:48:56.399 Ted, when you left salt Let, when you were extra douted, 1788 01:48:56.479 --> 01:48:59.159 you wish you to stay in and saying you feel 1789 01:48:59.239 --> 01:49:02.239 it everything will turn on or right that you are 1790 01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:02.520 in this. 1791 01:49:02.840 --> 01:49:03.600 Do you still feel that? 1792 01:49:03.960 --> 01:49:05.920 Mm mm yeah, yeah, more than ever. 1793 01:49:06.600 --> 01:49:06.720 Uh. 1794 01:49:07.720 --> 01:49:09.479 There's always one thing that amazed me. As you know, 1795 01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:11.920 I covered your trial and I was there every day 1796 01:49:12.760 --> 01:49:17.680 when you uh, when the judge fan you guilty mm 1797 01:49:17.760 --> 01:49:21.239 of uh second degree kidnapping, you never showed any emotion. 1798 01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:24.039 Do you know for somebody who believes he is so innocent, 1799 01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:25.199 why was there no emotion? 1800 01:49:27.520 --> 01:49:29.720 My attorney, John I co John O'Connell is so a 1801 01:49:29.880 --> 01:49:32.319 like and I've always mused over just how I should 1802 01:49:32.319 --> 01:49:34.920 behave what's the right way for Ted money to behave 1803 01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:36.880 and make sure that people get the right impression. 1804 01:49:37.239 --> 01:49:40.119 And I just behaved the way I feel it is right. Okay, 1805 01:49:40.720 --> 01:49:41.439 let me take. 1806 01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:46.760 The day of March first first, nineteen seventy six, the 1807 01:49:46.840 --> 01:49:49.239 day that the judge rendered this verdict in my case. 1808 01:49:50.000 --> 01:49:53.039 First, I didn't show any emotion because. 1809 01:49:54.960 --> 01:49:56.800 You know what am I supposed to do? Am I 1810 01:49:56.800 --> 01:49:58.840 gonna jump up on the table. Am I gonna scream? 1811 01:49:58.920 --> 01:50:02.920 That's what I felt like doing. I heard my mother cry. Uh. 1812 01:50:03.000 --> 01:50:04.960 It's an emotional time. I don't even like to think 1813 01:50:05.000 --> 01:50:05.520 of that day. 1814 01:50:06.520 --> 01:50:08.840 But I wasn't gonna give these people who went out 1815 01:50:08.960 --> 01:50:12.039 and built a case around the non existent eyewitness other 1816 01:50:12.079 --> 01:50:14.720 than any uh an eyewitness snification was built. 1817 01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:15.159 By the police. 1818 01:50:16.000 --> 01:50:18.600 I wasn't gonna give them satisfactions seeing me break down 1819 01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:22.399 and uh sure, I'm man, I'm showing emotion right now 1820 01:50:22.479 --> 01:50:29.239 because inside that man. Uh, But I've kept it together 1821 01:50:29.279 --> 01:50:32.119 because there's no point in destroying myself. I had got 1822 01:50:32.159 --> 01:50:34.399 to keep myself together. I have got to stay calm. 1823 01:50:34.439 --> 01:50:36.880 I've got to keep my presence of mind because as 1824 01:50:36.920 --> 01:50:37.439 long as. 1825 01:50:37.279 --> 01:50:40.279 I do that, I'm gonna beat these people. And that's 1826 01:50:40.319 --> 01:50:41.000 the way I feel. 1827 01:50:42.079 --> 01:50:42.319 Uh. 1828 01:50:42.439 --> 01:50:43.319 I showed no emotion. 1829 01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:48.039 I felt emotion, Believe me. Now the irony comes here. 1830 01:50:48.800 --> 01:50:52.199 When Carol Deroche, the kidnapping victim from Utah, came to 1831 01:50:52.239 --> 01:50:56.680 testify in this preliminary hearing here, I was beside myself 1832 01:50:56.720 --> 01:50:59.920 with rage. Uh, she is turning into a professional witnesses. 1833 01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:02.680 As far as I'm concerned, she has a prosecution witness. 1834 01:51:03.359 --> 01:51:05.439 And when I heard her go through that routine. 1835 01:51:05.079 --> 01:51:07.920 That I had heard three times before, I had restrained 1836 01:51:07.960 --> 01:51:08.960 myself every time. 1837 01:51:09.399 --> 01:51:11.920 I couldn't do it this time. And I told my atturney. 1838 01:51:11.960 --> 01:51:14.239 I says, I'm gonna get up, and I cut up, 1839 01:51:14.239 --> 01:51:16.000 and I pointed to Judge and I pointed at her 1840 01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:18.880 and I said, she's lying. She's lied three times before 1841 01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:21.359 and she's lying now. And I'd helped it. And he 1842 01:51:21.439 --> 01:51:22.720 pulled me down and he says, listening. 1843 01:51:22.720 --> 01:51:24.279 He says, you can't do that, and I says, okay, 1844 01:51:24.319 --> 01:51:27.000 But I had to do it for once. For once, 1845 01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:27.600 they had to do it. 1846 01:51:27.640 --> 01:51:31.439 And do you know something, people say Ted Bundy didn't 1847 01:51:31.439 --> 01:51:33.680 show any emotion. There must be something in that. I 1848 01:51:33.760 --> 01:51:36.800 showed emotion, you know what people said. See, you really 1849 01:51:36.880 --> 01:51:40.600 can't get violent and angry. Uh, there's no wi right 1850 01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:43.359 way for me to act. I act and I don't 1851 01:51:43.439 --> 01:51:46.079 care what people think about how I'd act. I act 1852 01:51:47.319 --> 01:51:49.199 according to the way I think is right and best 1853 01:51:49.199 --> 01:51:50.800 for me at the time. And I'm not gonna try 1854 01:51:50.800 --> 01:51:54.199 to please people or impress people, because quite frankly, the 1855 01:51:54.239 --> 01:51:58.279 amount of bias and and prejudice surrounds me as a 1856 01:51:58.439 --> 01:52:01.680 as a media image, I can't begin to tear down. 1857 01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:05.399 Not with this interview were underd interviews t. 1858 01:52:05.520 --> 01:52:06.439 Do you believe. 1859 01:52:08.199 --> 01:52:10.880 A person from the media m other people here? 1860 01:52:11.319 --> 01:52:12.840 Do you believe that we created you? 1861 01:52:12.920 --> 01:52:15.279 That that that it's that it's our fault that we 1862 01:52:15.399 --> 01:52:18.199 created this image of of the mass murder? 1863 01:52:18.319 --> 01:52:18.479 Is that? 1864 01:52:18.640 --> 01:52:19.720 Is that what you're saying to us? 1865 01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:25.119 Well, I think in the course of doing your job, 1866 01:52:25.199 --> 01:52:28.479 you did not at a not in a malign way, 1867 01:52:28.680 --> 01:52:32.079 not not not in a a personal vendetta against me. 1868 01:52:32.640 --> 01:52:36.560 But in the course of of of publishing the uh 1869 01:52:36.720 --> 01:52:39.640 material UH and broadcasts and material coming out of the 1870 01:52:39.680 --> 01:52:43.119 Saltly County Sheriff's Office or the Salty County Prosecutor's office, 1871 01:52:44.079 --> 01:52:47.880 you began to plant the seed in people's minds. Now, 1872 01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:52.720 that may be your constitutional right and duty as well 1873 01:52:52.760 --> 01:52:57.159 as you know your livelihood, uh, but I think in 1874 01:52:57.199 --> 01:53:03.760 the process you did create a media image of me Uh, 1875 01:53:03.800 --> 01:53:06.159 that's far beyond you know, the reality of me. 1876 01:53:06.399 --> 01:53:08.520 Does John Connell called the Bundy Monster. 1877 01:53:08.359 --> 01:53:10.680 That's what he called it, Leota, So I suggested that 1878 01:53:10.960 --> 01:53:13.319 to John we oughta get Mattel to make little dogs 1879 01:53:13.319 --> 01:53:15.279 that walk, and say I knew the Bundy Monster. 1880 01:53:16.600 --> 01:53:20.960 Tell me I should this. You totally believe you're innocent. 1881 01:53:22.800 --> 01:53:23.720 I'm not questioning that. 1882 01:53:25.239 --> 01:53:28.479 My question to you is how did it come to 1883 01:53:28.520 --> 01:53:32.680 be the Ted Bundy MM could be involved in some 1884 01:53:32.760 --> 01:53:35.319 of these things and has now been charged, conviction, convicted, 1885 01:53:35.399 --> 01:53:39.119 wants is now facing first screen murder charges and as 1886 01:53:39.159 --> 01:53:41.600 you know, I was being suspected in in other murders. 1887 01:53:41.880 --> 01:53:45.279 How did Ted Bundy come out? Where did it come from? 1888 01:53:45.359 --> 01:53:47.279 That's a very long story, and I could really can't 1889 01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:49.079 be If I knew the answers to that question, I 1890 01:53:49.119 --> 01:53:49.600 wouldn't be. 1891 01:53:49.600 --> 01:53:51.399 Sitting here right now. I'd be back in Salt Lake 1892 01:53:51.439 --> 01:53:53.560 with a new trial. And one day I'll have those 1893 01:53:53.640 --> 01:53:55.439 new Uh. One day I'll have those answers, and one 1894 01:53:55.520 --> 01:53:56.680 day I'll have a new trial. 1895 01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:00.920 Okay, But I don't know why, Okay, I I can't 1896 01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:05.520 begin to understand why. I know that there's a lot 1897 01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:08.600 of uh, police ego on the line. 1898 01:54:08.640 --> 01:54:09.880 I know that a lot of men. 1899 01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:12.479 In the Detective's division in sol the County Sheriff's office, 1900 01:54:12.560 --> 01:54:13.800 jobs are on the line. 1901 01:54:14.079 --> 01:54:15.800 I know that it's it's a long time ago. 1902 01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:17.640 It ceased to be an issue as whether or not 1903 01:54:17.680 --> 01:54:20.720 I was innocent or guilty. The issue is now is 1904 01:54:20.760 --> 01:54:23.880 can we pentant on it? Can we can we follow 1905 01:54:23.960 --> 01:54:25.920 through and this A and maintain a. 1906 01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:28.560 Rep reputation as law enforcement officers. 1907 01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:30.760 And I'll tell you, as long as they attempt to 1908 01:54:30.800 --> 01:54:33.439 keep their heads in the stand about me, there's gonna 1909 01:54:33.479 --> 01:54:35.600 be people turning up in canyons, and they're gonna be 1910 01:54:35.640 --> 01:54:38.560 people being shot in Salt Lake City because the police 1911 01:54:38.600 --> 01:54:42.439 there aren't willing to accept what I think they know, 1912 01:54:42.680 --> 01:54:45.119 and they know that I didn't do these things. 1913 01:54:46.199 --> 01:54:49.560 If you'll have to admit there's a there's a a 1914 01:54:49.640 --> 01:54:52.680 hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence, at least circumstantial 1915 01:54:52.760 --> 01:54:55.319 it seems to somebody who has read simply read the 1916 01:54:55.399 --> 01:54:56.680 newspapers and articles. 1917 01:54:58.800 --> 01:55:02.079 No, I won't admit that. No, there's uh, I I 1918 01:55:02.079 --> 01:55:02.920 don't call it ser. 1919 01:55:02.800 --> 01:55:05.039 It's not circumstantial as far as I'm concerned, and I 1920 01:55:05.039 --> 01:55:07.359 I don't really know exactly what you're referring to and 1921 01:55:07.399 --> 01:55:10.960 I don't really wanna discuss it, but uh it, I 1922 01:55:11.039 --> 01:55:15.079 don't care what they's anybody says or or the uh 1923 01:55:15.119 --> 01:55:18.199 the suspicions anyone harbors on the basis of that misinformation. 1924 01:55:18.319 --> 01:55:21.880 And indeed that's what I call it, circumstantial uh information 1925 01:55:21.960 --> 01:55:23.840 perhaps been misinformation. 1926 01:55:23.199 --> 01:55:24.239 As far as I'm concerned. 1927 01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:26.680 UH A lot of people trying to pin a lot 1928 01:55:26.720 --> 01:55:31.079 of stuff on somebody because UH, you know it's convenient. 1929 01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:36.800 But uh do you think you're gonna set up Well, 1930 01:55:37.159 --> 01:55:43.079 I don't think there's any broad scheme, UH, but I 1931 01:55:43.119 --> 01:55:46.239 think one begins to I would have to infer that, uh, 1932 01:55:46.279 --> 01:55:50.279 based on some of the police activity I think following 1933 01:55:50.319 --> 01:55:53.319 November of seventy five, you have to say that there 1934 01:55:53.399 --> 01:55:55.399 is a general uh. 1935 01:55:57.279 --> 01:55:59.199 Design amongst police. 1936 01:55:58.880 --> 01:56:02.239 Officers and several jurisdictions to to do whatever they could. 1937 01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:05.039 And I think a statement recently made by UH a 1938 01:56:05.119 --> 01:56:09.479 sheriff in Utah, in Utah County, I believe he said 1939 01:56:09.520 --> 01:56:11.279 they walked out in some of those meetings because it 1940 01:56:11.319 --> 01:56:12.960 was just clear that they were just gonn They had 1941 01:56:13.000 --> 01:56:16.000 one thing on their mind and they were gonna do 1942 01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:16.800 anything to prove it. 1943 01:56:16.840 --> 01:56:20.920 And I think this trial would show exactly what they've done. Uh. 1944 01:56:21.520 --> 01:56:23.800 I'm not gonna sit here and say people have purjured themselves, 1945 01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:24.840 but I think that will come out. 1946 01:56:25.199 --> 01:56:25.920 Are you angry? 1947 01:56:26.920 --> 01:56:27.119 Sure? 1948 01:56:27.159 --> 01:56:30.680 I get angry. Uh, you're very very un angry and indignant. 1949 01:56:30.720 --> 01:56:33.439 I don't like being locked up for something I didn't do, 1950 01:56:33.479 --> 01:56:34.960 and I don't like my liberty taken away. 1951 01:56:34.960 --> 01:56:36.479 And I don't like being treated like an animal. And 1952 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:39.000 I don't like like people walking around and ugly me 1953 01:56:39.359 --> 01:56:44.039 like I'm some sort of waydough because I'm not. Uh. 1954 01:56:44.079 --> 01:56:47.319 You know, I'm perfectly happy with the person I am 1955 01:56:47.399 --> 01:56:48.279 and I've always been. 1956 01:56:49.159 --> 01:56:50.439 There's nothing not a I mean. 1957 01:56:50.479 --> 01:56:53.960 I uh yeah, I don't pay my telephone bills on time, 1958 01:56:54.039 --> 01:56:57.279 and I don't write my mother uh as many letters 1959 01:56:57.279 --> 01:56:58.760 as I should. There are all kinds of things I 1960 01:56:58.760 --> 01:57:00.920 can improve about myself, but weird don't know this. 1961 01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:01.600 Uh. 1962 01:57:01.640 --> 01:57:04.319 I feel good about myself. I'm happy with myself. 1963 01:57:05.840 --> 01:57:06.680 It don't change you. 1964 01:57:06.680 --> 01:57:09.319 Stayed tech BONDI twenty four hours a day. 1965 01:57:10.359 --> 01:57:14.800 Well, gee, that name sounds funny. You know you hear 1966 01:57:14.880 --> 01:57:17.000 ted Bundy in so many different contexts. 1967 01:57:17.319 --> 01:57:17.880 I stay me. 1968 01:57:18.840 --> 01:57:23.199 Okay, what happens if you're in prison five years and 1969 01:57:23.399 --> 01:57:26.079 nothing like what has happened in the past happens again. 1970 01:57:26.720 --> 01:57:28.319 Who do you mean, I mean any any of the 1971 01:57:28.359 --> 01:57:30.039 things that you have been accused. 1972 01:57:29.720 --> 01:57:32.800 Of any one by any window, by rumor, by the 1973 01:57:32.800 --> 01:57:35.880 police departments or whatever. What if there are no killings 1974 01:57:35.960 --> 01:57:37.680 or no kidnappings. 1975 01:57:37.079 --> 01:57:39.960 It's already happened, hasn't it. I've heard some reports. 1976 01:57:40.000 --> 01:57:43.640 I you know, I remember the the incidents between between 1977 01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:46.960 five and eight which are similar to the ones which 1978 01:57:47.279 --> 01:57:49.880 the the police have had the nerve to try to 1979 01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:53.239 associate with me. It's gonna continue to happen in Salt 1980 01:57:53.279 --> 01:57:56.439 Lake in Utah until those police start to wise up 1981 01:57:57.000 --> 01:57:59.920 and stopt st stop counting their chickens before they had. 1982 01:58:01.239 --> 01:58:03.920 I think it's a terribly dangerous mentality to try to 1983 01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:07.680 pin something on somebody who who they might. They believe 1984 01:58:08.680 --> 01:58:12.640 there's a possibility it couldn't have done it. And as 1985 01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:14.479 long as they believe that, they're not going to find 1986 01:58:14.520 --> 01:58:17.199 the right man, and the man who who kidnapped caroled 1987 01:58:17.279 --> 01:58:19.560 Ranch is going to continue to be free, and not 1988 01:58:19.640 --> 01:58:21.640 only her, but every other young woman in the Salt 1989 01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:24.199 Lake Valley is going to is going to be threatened 1990 01:58:24.239 --> 01:58:27.079 by that person or person's and it's happening today and 1991 01:58:27.119 --> 01:58:29.399 it's going to happen in the future. What do you 1992 01:58:29.479 --> 01:58:31.079 think about in your mind? 1993 01:58:31.079 --> 01:58:32.920 What do you conjure up about the man that they're 1994 01:58:32.960 --> 01:58:34.640 after or the real man who did. 1995 01:58:34.520 --> 01:58:37.880 These things man or man person's persons. 1996 01:58:37.920 --> 01:58:40.520 I don't know, I really have. I can't even begin 1997 01:58:41.000 --> 01:58:42.600 to understand the mentality. 1998 01:58:43.920 --> 01:58:45.039 You are not guilty. 1999 01:58:46.600 --> 01:58:47.520 I'm not guilty. 2000 01:58:49.840 --> 01:58:52.680 Does that include the time I stole a comic book 2001 01:58:52.680 --> 01:58:55.199 when I was five years old? I am not guilty 2002 01:58:55.199 --> 01:58:57.039 of the terriages which have been filed against me and 2003 01:58:57.119 --> 01:59:01.279 the allegations and the allegations of the room or I 2004 01:59:01.319 --> 01:59:03.319 don't know all of what you're speaking about, like a 2005 01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:05.560 it's too broad and I can't get into it in 2006 01:59:05.640 --> 01:59:12.600 any detail. Uh, but I'm satisfied with with my blanket statement. 2007 01:59:12.239 --> 01:59:12.960 That I'm innocent. 2008 01:59:13.840 --> 01:59:14.119 Uh. 2009 01:59:14.399 --> 01:59:16.039 No man is truly innocent. 2010 01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:16.439 Uh. 2011 01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:19.800 I mean we all just transgressed in somewhere in our lives. 2012 01:59:19.840 --> 01:59:24.000 And as I say, I, I've been uh impolite, and 2013 01:59:24.239 --> 01:59:28.159 there are things I regret having done in my life. 2014 01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:31.760 But then nothing like the the things I think that 2015 01:59:31.800 --> 01:59:35.399 you're referring to. You ever physically harmed. 2016 01:59:35.159 --> 01:59:44.199 Anyone, ever physically harmed anyone, No no, you know, uh. 2017 01:59:45.399 --> 01:59:48.720 Again, not in the context. I think that you're you're speaking. 2018 01:59:48.359 --> 01:59:51.640 Of being as strange. 2019 01:59:51.640 --> 01:59:55.520 When you're a strange, faces look ugly. 2020 01:59:55.880 --> 01:59:56.479 When you're a. 2021 01:59:56.720 --> 02:00:02.760 Lone woman seeing with kid. When you're unworded, streets are 2022 02:00:02.920 --> 02:00:08.760 run even when you're down. When you're a strange, faces 2023 02:00:08.840 --> 02:00:14.880 got out of the rain. When you're strange, no one 2024 02:00:14.960 --> 02:00:22.000 remembers the name when you're strange. When you're strange, When 2025 02:00:22.039 --> 02:00:29.920 you're strain, eat well a strain. When you're a stranger, 2026 02:00:30.600 --> 02:00:35.880 faces not done. Let when you're alone when the same week, 2027 02:00:36.680 --> 02:00:39.600 when you're unwonted, streets are. 2028 02:00:39.560 --> 02:00:41.800 Round eva when you're down. 2029 02:00:51.000 --> 02:00:58.680 Hello, and welcome Cosmic Peach podcast, where we go cosmic 2030 02:00:58.760 --> 02:00:59.680 all over your feet. 2031 02:01:07.520 --> 02:01:12.319 He was also asked where Rob Peaste was, to which 2032 02:01:12.800 --> 02:01:15.720 that's peaced. I fucking know it's peaced because I watched 2033 02:01:15.760 --> 02:01:16.520 the documentary. 2034 02:01:16.760 --> 02:01:17.920 Also asked. 2035 02:01:20.680 --> 02:01:25.840 Who's that guy one of his victims, but they. 2036 02:01:25.800 --> 02:01:26.880 Didn't have a body yet. 2037 02:01:27.159 --> 02:01:27.199 No. 2038 02:01:29.159 --> 02:01:30.880 Yeah, oh, I thought you were saying I said the 2039 02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:31.479 last name. 2040 02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:37.680 No, I just name came out of nowhere. 2041 02:01:37.800 --> 02:01:38.479 So let me. 2042 02:01:40.000 --> 02:01:41.520 Rephrase it for the listener. 2043 02:01:44.800 --> 02:01:45.600 What do you want to call it? 2044 02:01:45.760 --> 02:01:49.239 Like when he got baptized? 2045 02:01:49.399 --> 02:01:51.399 Yeah, it's a word I'm trying to find. It's an 2046 02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:53.359 easy word. Told h, I'm tired. 2047 02:01:53.760 --> 02:01:57.479 But well, not coincidence. 2048 02:01:57.680 --> 02:01:58.760 It's not a coincidence. 2049 02:01:58.840 --> 02:02:06.399 It's like, oh my god, when she's been tapping at 2050 02:02:06.479 --> 02:02:08.239 the same time synchronous. 2051 02:02:07.960 --> 02:02:14.000 Yes, parting or is that dexter it's texter. 2052 02:02:14.720 --> 02:02:15.760 I thought it was you. 2053 02:02:17.479 --> 02:02:18.760 That's definitely a chicken furt. 2054 02:02:19.600 --> 02:02:20.640 Yeah, it smells like. 2055 02:02:22.239 --> 02:02:35.239 Mother chape. This breaths marijuana. Instance, she just sticks some 2056 02:02:35.319 --> 02:02:36.680 popery and dexter fearble. 2057 02:02:39.199 --> 02:02:44.319 Oh my god, that's so disgusting to bring the stink 2058 02:02:44.439 --> 02:02:55.560 out so happy with. 2059 02:02:57.520 --> 02:03:06.560 Text to your disgusting fuck, Can at least leave the 2060 02:03:06.680 --> 02:03:11.960 room actually fucking burden? 2061 02:03:14.119 --> 02:03:16.960 Okay, I do think I'll want it puffed, though, let 2062 02:03:16.960 --> 02:03:19.960 me take some pressure. I'm scared because that's the thickest 2063 02:03:20.000 --> 02:03:20.439 part of it. 2064 02:03:20.640 --> 02:03:23.960 This actually, the resonating stuff gets you way harder because 2065 02:03:23.960 --> 02:03:32.039 it's a concentrated brand. Are you okay, baby, enough to 2066 02:03:32.479 --> 02:03:48.640 bob your eyes? Oh? Anyway, I'm not saying that's when 2067 02:03:48.680 --> 02:03:49.720 I shut. 2068 02:03:49.520 --> 02:03:52.359 The help me down. 2069 02:03:53.720 --> 02:04:00.399 M cool mm hmm, se mm hmm. 2070 02:04:03.640 --> 02:04:10.479 Zero last time, Hello, and welcome back to the show.