Speaker 1: Big Food and on with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like Shay, subscribe and rade.
Speaker 2: It live star s and.
Speaker 3: Greatest con Ques today and listening watching Limb always keep
Speaker 3: its watching.
Speaker 4: And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to another big Foot and Beyond
Speaker 1: with all of us on this side of the microphone.
Speaker 1: We have a fantastic episode for you today, I mean
Speaker 1: normally at this time, Boba and I catch up a
Speaker 1: few minutes. We talked about what's been going on in
Speaker 1: the field, what we've been up to. But we're not
Speaker 1: gonna waste any time with us today because we have
Speaker 1: one of our favorite guests on of all time back
Speaker 1: for a second dip in this pool, our brother from
Speaker 1: another mother, one of our best friends and colleagues for
Speaker 1: many many years now, mister Matt Moneymaker. Matt, how are
Speaker 1: you doing today? Thanks so much for on our little
Speaker 1: podcast here.
Speaker 5: I am quite well. It's good to be back on
Speaker 5: your great show. It being better than so many Bigfoot
Speaker 5: podcasts out there. I won't diss them all.
Speaker 3: Go ahead and disc I mean.
Speaker 2: Tell you want Okay, good.
Speaker 1: Well, well, it's very very nice of you to slam
Speaker 1: everybody else and prop us up. We really do appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that anything that we do here,
Speaker 1: whether it's the podcast or my museum or my fieldwork
Speaker 1: or anything that I'm doing personally and with anybody else,
Speaker 1: is something that I personally would like to see that
Speaker 1: I don't see out there anywhere else. And we are
Speaker 1: kind of a lighthearted yet serious podcast here, which we
Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on because we have so much
Speaker 1: to talk about. We've got you and Bobo and I
Speaker 1: have been friends since I don't even know how long.
Speaker 1: I mean, I met you guys back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and four or five or something like that, and you
Speaker 1: guys are already friends before that, so we have quite
Speaker 1: the history together.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And that's one of the reasons, as you know,
Speaker 5: I think why are show worked well was because of
Speaker 5: that chemistry.
Speaker 1: I do hear that a lot like people would tune
Speaker 1: you know, at the very beginning. I think I was
Speaker 1: a little foolish, a little naive, perhaps, said I thought
Speaker 1: sasquatches were the star of finding Bigfoot, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, people tuned in, Yeah, the Bigfoot stuff was tangential,
Speaker 1: but I think people tuned in to watch us, you know,
Speaker 1: do our thing. And because we're kind of strong, weird personalities,
Speaker 1: a lot of us, you know, and all of us really,
Speaker 1: and they liked seeing us do all these things out
Speaker 1: there that they wish they could be doing. And I
Speaker 1: think it was foolish of me to think that was
Speaker 1: more about Bigfoot than us.
Speaker 5: And then I remember the realization a couple of times
Speaker 5: when I had with that, and I kept it kept happening,
Speaker 5: and I was like, no, this can't be. We'd be
Speaker 5: in a town hall, and after a town hall, of course,
Speaker 5: there's lines of people coming up, wanting autographed, wanting to
Speaker 5: talk to us, and I like would get like a
Speaker 5: group of people there and it would be standing sometimes
Speaker 5: not just like what are the time, but a group
Speaker 5: of people, and I would start talking to them about like, okay,
Speaker 5: where do you live and there's an area nearby you
Speaker 5: and dad, da da da da. I would talk, you know,
Speaker 5: I would talk about bigfoot stuff and and and it
Speaker 5: didn't I could see the expressions on their faces that
Speaker 5: they weren't really keen on that as I expected they
Speaker 5: would be. And I would finally say well, you know,
Speaker 5: I just figured, you know, you guys are into bigfoot
Speaker 5: that much, you probably want to know like where the
Speaker 5: hot stuff is happening around you. And then finally I
Speaker 5: would get like a comment back. People would see my
Speaker 5: puzzle and just say, well, we want to know about you.
Speaker 5: And that's when I realized, Yeah, there was so many
Speaker 5: fans of the show where we assumed they watch you
Speaker 5: just like you.
Speaker 2: You and I.
Speaker 5: We all thought the only reason they were interested in
Speaker 5: us is because we were really into bigfoots and we
Speaker 5: were kind of a bridge to bigfoots. But the bigfoot
Speaker 5: thing was the thing that they were most interested in.
Speaker 5: And then we'd come to find out, well, they're not
Speaker 5: really tear that really interested in bigfoot stuff, certainly not
Speaker 5: as much as us, And they were more interested in us.
Speaker 5: And of course we're sitting there thinking us like we're
Speaker 5: in like compare the the you know, the gravity of
Speaker 5: interest about us compared to bigfoots, you know, just like
Speaker 5: how could we be more interesting than than bigfoots? But yeah,
Speaker 5: but for a lot of people, that was us. They
Speaker 5: were they they wanted to know all about us, and
Speaker 5: you know, and and get close to us and and uh,
Speaker 5: you know, get close to the person they saw on TV.
Speaker 5: And so after a while I was like kind of like, okay, well,
Speaker 5: it's like I have a whole lot more to say
Speaker 5: about bigfoots than I do about myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I personally don't find me be very interesting, you know.
Speaker 1: But uh, but it was a it was a shock
Speaker 1: to me because my curiosity about sasquatches is endless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I get shock you right now, money, Remember
Speaker 3: remember my my big encounter up in ball Hills, right
Speaker 3: my first encounter where it came up and I was
Speaker 3: with fraid Us and all that. My buddy and I
Speaker 3: watched it with the night scope.
Speaker 5: What's that road that little spur off a ball to
Speaker 5: road called Johnson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally remember this.
Speaker 3: That was twenty four years ago. In two days.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I need to be.
Speaker 3: Shocked because I was shocked when I was like twenty
Speaker 3: four years my god.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
Speaker 5: I know, but that she tells me, We've had a
Speaker 5: lot going on in our lives, and it feels like
Speaker 5: it all went by so quickly. But yeah, we've been
Speaker 5: doing this for a long time. And some people look
Speaker 5: at that and say, see, look you've been doing this
Speaker 5: for a long time, and you know, have you caught
Speaker 5: bigfoot yet?
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I guess you don't understand.
Speaker 5: You know, we're we're learning about these things, and so
Speaker 5: we're not measuring our success or failure based on whether
Speaker 5: we've caught bigfoot or quote found them. And then if
Speaker 5: I have somebody there, then I have to say, okay,
Speaker 5: let's drill down as to what you mean by fine.
Speaker 5: You know, when you mean fine, are you really what
Speaker 5: you're really trying to say is do we have one
Speaker 5: in a bag you know or you know? Or is
Speaker 5: it by our measure that we figured out we're some
Speaker 5: where we got close enough to them to at least
Speaker 5: hear them. Definitely, so we found you know, an area
Speaker 5: where some are around, which is feels like a pretty
Speaker 5: big accomplishment when you're there and you were just trying
Speaker 5: to guess it based on reports and a map. But
Speaker 5: of course that doesn't satisfy the people who were not
Speaker 5: there and didn't hear it with their own ears.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when you were saying, yeah, that shows
Speaker 1: we've been doing it for a long time, at what
Speaker 1: the thought in my head was like, Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: shows that we're old men.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 5: I think I told you that that funny story about
Speaker 5: how I had a producer. They were thinking they wanted
Speaker 5: to do a show. They were asking me about different
Speaker 5: people that could be in some kind of show, like
Speaker 5: a one off or something else that they were trying
Speaker 5: to develop. And they always want young people. They want
Speaker 5: young energetic.
Speaker 1: That's why I was there.
Speaker 5: You go all ton monsters who goes around and like
Speaker 5: interviews people all over with a place and and has
Speaker 5: talked to all kinds of researchers who at least call
Speaker 5: themselves researchers, you know, And and said I said, O, Kate,
Speaker 5: like tell me give me that, like your a list
Speaker 5: of like young energetic bigfoot researchers from which they can
Speaker 5: maybe do screen tests and stuff like that. And the
Speaker 5: guy was an Alex, No, it was it was one
Speaker 5: of the guys just said, uh, young and energetic.
Speaker 2: H that's a tough one.
Speaker 5: I mean you told me that everybody's old that it's
Speaker 5: involved in and stuff, and it's just like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: it's an older crowd that does bigfoot stuff. But our
Speaker 5: show did help bring like a younger group.
Speaker 2: To the table, oh for sure.
Speaker 5: But it is it's different than the old group because
Speaker 5: the younger group is just absorbing stuff purely through the
Speaker 5: internet for YouTube, and through TV and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: And back way back when we were watching you know,
Speaker 5: documentaries and in search of and stuff like that, but
Speaker 5: there was also written stuff. We were aware of the authors.
Speaker 5: We were aware of Brover Krantz and John Green and
Speaker 5: and all those guys who were really were going out
Speaker 5: and doing stuff and and putting information together. And the
Speaker 5: young group is just like, you know, you can hear
Speaker 5: some kids personally, Oh, he's the he's so into bigfoots.
Speaker 5: It's like he lives and breathes this stuff. And you know,
Speaker 5: i'd say so, so you must, you know, what do
Speaker 5: you think about John Green? And they're like, who's that?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: It was aggravating, right, aggravating when it's I want to
Speaker 1: pull my eyes out, right.
Speaker 3: They were the celebrities before TV kind of stuff. The
Speaker 3: celebrities were John Green and anyone that wrote books, and
Speaker 3: Bob and Roger.
Speaker 5: Right exactly, anybody wrote books. And then there was like
Speaker 5: the only kind of new scientist who was like coming to.
Speaker 2: Take the reins was Meldrum.
Speaker 5: And you would have hoped that there would have been
Speaker 5: like at least as many of you know, form new horsemen,
Speaker 5: you know, to make up for the four horsemen that
Speaker 5: were fading away that were at least scientists, you know
Speaker 5: that we're to universities. But it's I know, there's a
Speaker 5: lot that are out there. I mean, at least according
Speaker 5: to Darby, there's there's a lot of them that are
Speaker 5: out there that you know, just kind of keep their
Speaker 5: interest under their hat, but they're very willing to quietly
Speaker 5: help the North Carolina effort and and and be involved
Speaker 5: in stuff like that. So there is a rumbling of
Speaker 5: interest in scientific community, and in large part it's I
Speaker 5: think it's because of our show, because that's what allowed
Speaker 5: the conversation to open up. People could broach the subject
Speaker 5: in an academic environment by saying, you know, not sounding crazy,
Speaker 5: just starting off saying, so have you seen the show
Speaker 5: finding Bigfoot? Like you know, and then approaching it from
Speaker 5: that way, and that made it like enabled people to
Speaker 5: have a conversation about it because I think they didn't
Speaker 5: immediately hit the stumbling block is they're talking to a
Speaker 5: person who's been who's been that it was a brainwashed
Speaker 5: or misinform that Bigfoot is this one lonely creature, that
Speaker 5: supposedly phantom thing that keeps popping up here and there,
Speaker 5: and they're speaking to somebody who understands it a little
Speaker 5: bit more on a little more sophisticated level.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the conversations we had many years ago, Matt,
Speaker 1: when we're on the show and you're absolutely You're absolutely
Speaker 1: right then, and you're still right about it now if
Speaker 1: you still think the same way, is that our show
Speaker 1: could have been on any network basically, but we ended
Speaker 1: up on Animal Planet, and I think that that was
Speaker 1: a big deal. You know, if it were on Discovery,
Speaker 1: I think it would have the same effect. But a
Speaker 1: lot of these smaller networks, even though they're maybe all
Speaker 1: owned by Discovery Networks or whatever the parent company. I
Speaker 1: think Animal Planet had that sort of machine to it,
Speaker 1: or things on Animal Planet would be taken serious because
Speaker 1: of all the other naturalists and such that were featured
Speaker 1: on that on that same channel, And I think that
Speaker 1: that really helped the Finding Bigfoot show have a have
Speaker 1: an air of credibility about it.
Speaker 5: Yes, And you know, I don't have a cable tier
Speaker 5: anymore that has Animal Planet on it, so I don't
Speaker 5: know what they're showing these days, but I'm wondering if
Speaker 5: it's gone full like Treehouse Masters, just like the the
Speaker 5: non animal related stuff that just like happened. They happened
Speaker 5: to be able to get, you know, good advertising stuff
Speaker 5: for but it did. And I was excited when it
Speaker 5: was coming out of an animal planet for exactly the reason
Speaker 5: that you described, because it gave it the air of respectability.
Speaker 5: And I think people were just like they it was
Speaker 5: still there even after Mermaids and meg Ladon and stuff
Speaker 5: like that. It's still people still thought it was. It
Speaker 5: was legit kind of like tour in the arena of
Speaker 5: national geography. At least, you know, that's what we and
Speaker 5: and that's all we want.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages. So three to
Speaker 1: six months doesn't seem like a long time right in
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Speaker 1: for sasquatches for decades and decades and decades. But when
Speaker 1: you think about what can happen in three to six months,
Speaker 1: like what would you do in three to six months?
Speaker 1: I'm going to give me six months go squatching squad
Speaker 1: of course, of course, and how much do you think
Speaker 1: is going to get done during that time? And squatching
Speaker 1: you're gonna see one in six months? Probably not, But
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Speaker 1: you're not going to see a sasquatch is thicker, fuller
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Speaker 1: I think all of us on the on the call
Speaker 1: right now would probably agree that finding Bigfoot did a
Speaker 1: lot of good for the bigfoot community in general, brought
Speaker 1: a lot of new people in, put some new eyes
Speaker 1: on the subject, brought got some scientists who are quietly
Speaker 1: involved or at least interested in the background. Do you
Speaker 1: think that finding bigfoot did any harm to the subjects?
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 5: But if I'm on like on a forum, or I
Speaker 5: post something in a forum or comments, there's always some
Speaker 5: income poop who's going to pop up and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: it did damage to the whole scene and hurt real researchers.
Speaker 5: And I'm just like, you know, I used to reply
Speaker 5: to that, but now I just kind of hold my tongue.
Speaker 5: But what I'm thinking is, and what I used to
Speaker 5: write this, Who the fuck are you? You know, real researchers,
Speaker 5: What do you do? You know, I've never even heard
Speaker 5: of you, And what kind of real research are you
Speaker 5: doing except posting online?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 5: And so yeah, it's it's the nobody's who've never done
Speaker 5: anything will be very critical about us getting a lot
Speaker 5: of attention for what we've done.
Speaker 2: And and and I.
Speaker 5: Think some of them have just seen other people write that,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, they did more harm to the subject than good,
Speaker 5: and it's just like, oh yeah, you're like and you
Speaker 5: don't want to dignify it because they just want an
Speaker 5: argument that's gonna make them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like the young kid coming to town with his
Speaker 5: gun and saying, you know, challenging the fast just gone
Speaker 5: in the West, because that's gonna make him somebody, you know,
Speaker 5: even if he gets wounded.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: So I just look at this and say, you know,
Speaker 5: I'm not even gonna do You're such a nobody trying
Speaker 5: to sound in some way morally or intellectually superior, and
Speaker 5: you're just not. You're inferior. You're a nobody. You've never
Speaker 5: done anything, shut up and go away.
Speaker 1: Well, you know. One of the concerns we all had,
Speaker 1: I think on the show is that when when it
Speaker 1: was on, we were worried about people going out and
Speaker 1: doing too many calls and not doing them right and
Speaker 1: knocking at the campfire and cluing in the Bigfoots that
Speaker 1: we were onto their tricks. And I don't think I
Speaker 1: don't really see that as having panned out. I mean,
Speaker 1: some areas might be a little blown out, like Salt
Speaker 1: Fork or something like that, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that our fear has really come
Speaker 1: to fruition.
Speaker 5: It has happened to some degree that people would go
Speaker 5: out and they'll howl and they'll knock, but they're doing
Speaker 5: it just like.
Speaker 2: They're not doing it in a systematic and continuous way.
Speaker 5: It's like something they do once time and like they
Speaker 5: maybe here's something, but we hear about it because so
Speaker 5: we get some reports sound reports where people are mentioning
Speaker 5: that they had seen the show and they did a
Speaker 5: couple of howls or knocks and what they heard seemed
Speaker 5: to be in response to that. So I get that
Speaker 5: every once in a while. But yeah, I remember we
Speaker 5: had the fears that so many people would go on
Speaker 5: and do it and then the trick wouldn't work anymore.
Speaker 5: But I kept falling back on. And then of course
Speaker 5: there was those areas like you know, West Morris Campground
Speaker 5: and Yuwari, a couple of places where the locals found
Speaker 5: out like our honey hole, and they were going there
Speaker 5: trying to get something going. But there was just a
Speaker 5: handful of spots like that. Salt Fork would be another
Speaker 5: place that people just went in and tried to do
Speaker 5: so much stuff. But what I kept falling back on
Speaker 5: is there's so many locations of where there's bigfoots around
Speaker 5: that it's not you know that they're not going to
Speaker 5: be able to blow out all of them. And the
Speaker 5: best reactions responses comes from, you know, when you're finally
Speaker 5: going to a place like real remote spot or someplace
Speaker 5: it's no but no bigfoot's ever gone before. And it's
Speaker 5: that that's why it's so important to do it right,
Speaker 5: to make the sounds and do it properly, because it's
Speaker 5: that first response where you're going to have the best
Speaker 5: chance of getting a good sound recording or getting you know,
Speaker 5: getting some thermal footage or something else. And then you
Speaker 5: have to rely on after that. Like up at bumping,
Speaker 5: they're still curious enough to come around, but that would
Speaker 5: be like in a case of bumping, it's because they're
Speaker 5: up in that valley anyway. And I say that openly
Speaker 5: about bumping is because of the fires. I know, it's
Speaker 5: it's changed up there quite a bit, So I don't
Speaker 5: know if the same kind of stuff would still happen
Speaker 5: that used to happen, even though we bring you know,
Speaker 5: lots of people up there, and and and and but
Speaker 5: people would like with Bart still had a pretty damn
Speaker 5: good close encounter even though We've been doing expedition, like
Speaker 5: a dozen expeditions up there in the summertime prior to that,
Speaker 5: So it doesn't always ruin things, but it depends that
Speaker 5: that's the place the Bigfoots are already around, and the
Speaker 5: forest is such that they can get It's thick enough
Speaker 5: where they can get pretty close to watch you, especially
Speaker 5: at night, and not worry that you're gonna, you know,
Speaker 5: race on after them and you know, or line them
Speaker 5: up with a spotlight. They'll they'll still have that you know,
Speaker 5: curiosity combined with the boldness that comes from having good cover.
Speaker 2: In this situation.
Speaker 5: But yeah, there's still still a whole lot of good
Speaker 5: places around that even we don't know about yet. I
Speaker 5: just found out one just two days ago about you know,
Speaker 5: hearing about this daylight encounter that happened yesterday morning, very
Speaker 5: close to the shore of Lake Erie, about halfway between
Speaker 5: Toledo and Detroit. And when I looked at the map,
Speaker 5: I'm just like an area of photos. I'm like, what
Speaker 5: this place? Because it's on the outskirts of a town,
Speaker 5: it's on the Lake Erie, but it's not like there's
Speaker 5: big vast forests around it. That it's a Midwest situation
Speaker 5: where you have railroad tracks coming out of farmland passing
Speaker 5: by basically in between the town and the edge of
Speaker 5: the lake, and it brushes up against this very big marsh,
Speaker 5: and the marsh area is full of deer because it's
Speaker 5: so close to town that it's a no hunting area.
Speaker 5: And now I've seen that on a couple of occasions.
Speaker 5: I saw that with Omaha, Nebraska, and a couple of
Speaker 5: the areas where there's sidings where you find out where
Speaker 5: it is you're going, My god, that's awfully close to town,
Speaker 5: and then you find out, yeah, but in these woods
Speaker 5: that are very close to town number one, there's a
Speaker 5: railroad bed that comes out of the farmland and goes
Speaker 5: right through there and number one. But also it's full
Speaker 5: of deer because hunting isn't loud. And that's especially an
Speaker 5: element in the Midwest where it's flat because they it's
Speaker 5: no hunting because they don't want bullets traveling into the neighborhood,
Speaker 5: you know. So but yeah, so there's pockets like that
Speaker 5: in different places. And I just found out about that
Speaker 5: one yesterday, and I would have thought there's no way,
Speaker 5: and then I started looking up. Sure enough, there's reports
Speaker 5: going back to like nineteen sixty five in the same area.
Speaker 5: And I post the reports on Facebook, knowing that, yeah,
Speaker 5: that's probably going to kick up other information. And sure
Speaker 5: enough there's other people popping full popping up, including some
Speaker 5: local researchers or one guy saying, yeah, I got a
Speaker 5: research area near there, but it's the other side of town.
Speaker 5: And then another one pops up saying, don't listen to him.
Speaker 5: He doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm the one
Speaker 5: who does the best research right here. Okay, I guess
Speaker 5: that tells me there really is some action around there.
Speaker 2: If the bigfooters are dissing each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at least it tells you there's big researchers dound
Speaker 1: now there because they're dissing each other, right.
Speaker 5: And then yet another one pops in, trying to show
Speaker 5: that he's superior in knowledge to the other two by
Speaker 5: just laying it all out, like everything he knows. And
Speaker 5: I wrote back saying, Okay, that's great, that's like, you know,
Speaker 5: don't just say you're a better researcher and this you
Speaker 5: know stuff. It's like, no, say what you know?
Speaker 2: What do you know? What do you know?
Speaker 5: I mean, you don't say because that reminds me of
Speaker 5: the way it used to be in Ohio. People would
Speaker 5: get this information and they were very guarded about it
Speaker 5: when they would get it back in the day. And
Speaker 5: and you know, this is before the Internet, and they
Speaker 5: wouldn't just like willingly post or publish information, especially with
Speaker 5: like location information, because they was so worried about some
Speaker 5: other researcher coming in there and basically stealing their thunder
Speaker 5: or taking credit for them, and so they are just
Speaker 5: like very protective of it. And so when I was
Speaker 5: out there, I'm just like, no, I mean, it's like,
Speaker 5: let if you got information, let people know, because that
Speaker 5: tends to bring in more information and more recent and
Speaker 5: none of that's going to happen if you just like
Speaker 5: kind of keep it all close to the vest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a problem with that. But you know, you
Speaker 1: brought up this new area as something that you kind
Speaker 1: of picked up just recently and kind of learned, And
Speaker 1: I was while you were talking, I was reflecting about
Speaker 1: how finding Bigfoot for me at least, was kind of
Speaker 1: like like Bigfoot College in a lot of ways. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been around for a long time before the show started,
Speaker 1: but traveling the United States and really the world and
Speaker 1: seeing the various habitat that sasquatches lurk around in and
Speaker 1: what their needs are and the commonalities and the differences
Speaker 1: really taught me a lot. And one of my big
Speaker 1: takeaways was Sasquatches don't give a darn about your expectations.
Speaker 1: They go where they want to go, and they are
Speaker 1: in a lot of places that you wouldn't expect, just
Speaker 1: like this location you just mentioned. Do you have any
Speaker 1: big takeaways because you had been big footing, you and
Speaker 1: Bobo had been big footing longer than I had when
Speaker 1: the show started, and you know, and I learned a
Speaker 1: lot from both of you guys, But are there any
Speaker 1: big takeaways that really you look back on the finding
Speaker 1: big foot years and say, Wow, going in, I hadn't
Speaker 1: expected that, But coming out, of course that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And now I carry that along in my briefcase and knowledge.
Speaker 5: I'd have to think about that because there was so
Speaker 5: I'm always thinking geographically, and so I was aware of
Speaker 5: the geographic places where they had been seen, but I
Speaker 5: guess there was still there was lots of parts of
Speaker 5: the country that I thought you would expect there to
Speaker 5: be a lot more forest around because you're comparing it
Speaker 5: in your mind to like places where they're seen in
Speaker 5: the Northwest and solid forest where it's way more forest
Speaker 5: than you know, either farm or development. And then finding
Speaker 5: out like you know, we were in South Dakota and
Speaker 5: you're you know, you're just like on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
Speaker 5: You're near the bad lands, and you're looking out just
Speaker 5: basically across grassy hilltops and it looks like there's only
Speaker 5: a few scout sattered trees on ridges here and there,
Speaker 5: and then but you see it in the aerial views that, yeah,
Speaker 5: all it takes is there to be a ribbon of
Speaker 5: woods along a creek in between some of these hills,
Speaker 5: and that's enough for them to be able to get
Speaker 5: out of the sun and get out of view during
Speaker 5: the day and so and that's exactly what the deer
Speaker 5: do as well.
Speaker 2: So I had to.
Speaker 5: Twist and say, Okay, it's we're looking at areas that
Speaker 5: are squatchy, but then we have to look at places
Speaker 5: that we would not consider squatchy but for the fact
Speaker 5: that there's a ton of deer around. And so, yeah,
Speaker 5: deer will end up populating in a lot of places,
Speaker 5: and their predators will end up going after them in
Speaker 5: this case, you know, bigfoots are you know one, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the predators. Now that kind of replaced what
Speaker 5: was a bigger predation scene because the only other predators,
Speaker 5: like in the Midwest for them would be like groups
Speaker 5: of coyotes, because the big cats and the water were
Speaker 5: eradicated a long time ago, and the bigfoots have, i think,
Speaker 5: have taken advantage of it. Not that they were preyed
Speaker 5: upon by those species, but those species were going after
Speaker 5: and putting pressure on the deer and affecting their moods
Speaker 5: as well. So it's I think over time it seemed
Speaker 5: as though, yeah, the population of bigfoots, it really does
Speaker 5: seem to be like their numbers are growing rather than diminishing,
Speaker 5: because we're just getting more and more reports and from
Speaker 5: places we didn't expect, and these also happened to be
Speaker 5: so many of them are places where there's like a
Speaker 5: deer over population problem, which is we wish we had
Speaker 5: in California but we don't anymore.
Speaker 1: I was specifically thinking about South Dakota actually when I
Speaker 1: asked that question, because that's one of the places that
Speaker 1: really blew my mind that like sasquatches are here, but
Speaker 1: there's no trees, you know, or very few trees, or
Speaker 1: the farmlands in Minnesota, you know, where everything's formed out,
Speaker 1: and that you only have these ribbons of trees in
Speaker 1: between the property lines, you know, basically along the property
Speaker 1: lines and the creeks. Those places, especially in the early
Speaker 1: days of finding Bigfoot, really surprised me that they held
Speaker 1: sasquatches so consistently and there's so many reports around. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of exactly what I was thinking when I
Speaker 1: asked that question.
Speaker 3: So yeah, nor North Dakota came to my mind. And
Speaker 3: then the Oklahoma when we kayaked there outside Oklahoma City,
Speaker 3: like those are the spots that were like, wow, there
Speaker 3: are these places that's really tripped me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in Oklahoma City, like inside the city limits. Really
Speaker 1: I think that that wasn't that preserve technically in the
Speaker 1: city limits. If it wasn't, it was right outside of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was within the city limits, and the
Speaker 5: simil limits on some of those Midwestern towns like extend
Speaker 5: out a long way the farm land. But yeah, there
Speaker 5: is another one where theyre could get right up close
Speaker 5: to cities and get people would say say, that's the
Speaker 5: look on the aerial photos that looks like it's real
Speaker 5: close to town like under the assumption that they're going
Speaker 5: to try to be as far away from towns as possible.
Speaker 5: And I was at the point out what it's like.
Speaker 5: You know, there's tons of deer in that area and
Speaker 5: it's a no hunting area, so they could be in there,
Speaker 5: and if the terrain is like swampy enough or difficult enough,
Speaker 5: then they could be in like islands among the marsh
Speaker 5: that people and dogs are never going to get to,
Speaker 5: and you you just wouldn't know it. And that's why
Speaker 5: I'm thought, okay in those places. That's why you know,
Speaker 5: if it's got the right kind of trees and stuff
Speaker 5: and the leaves fall off in the winter, then a
Speaker 5: good drone might be useful in.
Speaker 2: A place like that.
Speaker 5: But the price of thermal drums has not really come
Speaker 5: down far enough for them to be as widespread as
Speaker 5: I would wish. And yeah, you're still talking about for
Speaker 5: a therm, a good thermal drone, you're still talking about
Speaker 5: it around five thousand bucks. That's one of those things you
Speaker 5: have a place, and you have technology that could apply
Speaker 5: to it, but unless you know, you're not going to
Speaker 5: have a lot of people doing it on their own
Speaker 5: unless the price tag comes down quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bogo will be right back after these messages. You've really
Speaker 1: taken to droning in general. You have a thermal drone yourself.
Speaker 1: I know when you attend your expeditions for the BFROL
Speaker 1: you often take it with you. What is the strategy
Speaker 1: that you're employing with the drone.
Speaker 5: The strategy would be like if we knew a place
Speaker 5: in California, Sierra's where it was a little bit like
Speaker 5: bumping that even though we had done expeditions in this
Speaker 5: area year after year after year at the same time
Speaker 5: of year, the bigfoots would still come around, like they're
Speaker 5: going to be up there no matter what. But they
Speaker 5: would still come around. And that was great because people
Speaker 5: coming on the trips, they'd get to see them or
Speaker 5: hear them, or see glowing eyes and sometimes people would
Speaker 5: get like, well, you know a little like either thermal
Speaker 5: stills or you know, a little thermal e clips and
Speaker 5: things like that. And so the strategy we would employ
Speaker 5: is I would try to get up at a high spot,
Speaker 5: high up as possible, like on a rock ledge so
Speaker 5: that if I flew, I could fly the drone way
Speaker 5: out over the valley and still have line of sight
Speaker 5: with the drone because you can go so much further
Speaker 5: with those and still have green transmission, and then you're
Speaker 5: not have to worry about it like it's beyond the trees,
Speaker 5: and then eventually you're losing your signal and then it
Speaker 5: just goes into return to home mode and it flies
Speaker 5: right back. So yeah, so I would get up at
Speaker 5: a high point, I would know where the people are,
Speaker 5: and I'm just kind of up there waiting, or I
Speaker 5: have a couple of groups spread out waiting for some
Speaker 5: of them to say, Okay, we've got something going on here,
Speaker 5: come and take a look, et cetera, et cetera. But
Speaker 5: the experimentation of that showed some of the limitations, and
Speaker 5: because we've did that a few of the places. Number one,
Speaker 5: the big bugaboo is if you're in a place where
Speaker 5: there's a tree canopy and there's a lot of and
Speaker 5: you can't really see through it that well to even
Speaker 5: spot your own people down there. And then in the Sierras,
Speaker 5: it wasn't as much the canopy because it was conifers
Speaker 5: and they're spread out a little bit. But you've got
Speaker 5: so much granite boulders and outcroppings and everything, and in
Speaker 5: the summertime they absorb so much warmth that freaking everything
Speaker 5: is glowing. And you know, I remember I was. I
Speaker 5: was blown away and kind of disappointed. At the same time.
Speaker 5: I've got a group of people around me with the drone.
Speaker 5: We're on top of the big rock granite rock outcropping,
Speaker 5: and I'm having trouble discerning the people are that are
Speaker 5: out a distance away, out like by this pond where
Speaker 5: they've had these encounters before, and I don't spot them,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to try to calibrate
Speaker 5: the heat sensitivity on people's What I'll do is I'll
Speaker 5: fly back over me and the little group of people
Speaker 5: that are surrounding me on top of this granite outcropping,
Speaker 5: and then calibrate it the right way so the people's
Speaker 5: heat signature is going to pop out. And I bring
Speaker 5: the drone over and I get it above us, and
Speaker 5: we're looking down this big granite slab and where of
Speaker 5: course it's it's getting a little chili, so we're all
Speaker 5: wearing you know, jackets and stuff like that, and it
Speaker 5: turns out the granite is warmer, releasing more heat than
Speaker 5: we are. You know, we're covered up with jackets and
Speaker 5: pants and stuff, and the ground that everything around is warm,
Speaker 5: so you can't see us unless you're like down within,
Speaker 5: like with fifty feet of us. Can you discern that,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, there's some people moving around down there on
Speaker 5: top of that big warm blob of granite, which just
Speaker 5: completely it just makes it so you can't discern any details,
Speaker 5: so that it's like, okay, well that it's only really
Speaker 5: going to be good in a place where there's not
Speaker 5: a lot of exposed rocks and at a time of
Speaker 5: year where the leaves are off the trees, or there
Speaker 5: just isn't a lot of trees around. So that means
Speaker 5: you're ruling out like the whole big good areas. You're
Speaker 5: not going to be able to use the drone. It's
Speaker 5: not going to be as useful as like handheld thermal
Speaker 5: for example, on the Olympic Peninsula where it's just like
Speaker 5: or in the Redwoods where you've got such big heavy
Speaker 5: tree canopy that you know, somebody says, oh, I've got
Speaker 5: one over here. It's only about like one hundred feet
Speaker 5: in front of me send the drone over, and you're
Speaker 5: sending a droneover and like, okay, well where are you?
Speaker 5: I can the drone can't even spot you, so I
Speaker 5: can't figure out where the Bigfoot is from there. So
Speaker 5: that's why I'm like hopeful in places there's going to
Speaker 5: be in a BFR expedition later this summer in Arizona,
Speaker 5: very close to the New Mexico border, and in that place,
Speaker 5: the trees, the ponderosa pines and stuff are spread out,
Speaker 5: you know, with one extreme being like rainforest where it's
Speaker 5: the canopy is like shag carpet. It's just solid and
Speaker 5: compared to like parts of the Rockies where the trees
Speaker 5: are further apart, you can actually see down through the
Speaker 5: woods a whole lot better. So you know, I'm hoping
Speaker 5: that I can make it to that, and I would
Speaker 5: certainly want to bring, you know, a lot of gear
Speaker 5: to that. But that's that's a good location, a piece
Speaker 5: of private property that's grandfathered into national forest, and it's
Speaker 5: one of the most remote places you've ever seen, like
Speaker 5: down by the Gila And I think Bobo, you went
Speaker 5: through the Gela Mountains and I always remember you talking
Speaker 5: about how blown away you were, I think if we
Speaker 5: drove through it with your dad, yeah, yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 5: so what did you think going through the Gela Mountains.
Speaker 1: Dude, They're they're there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I can't believe I haven't been back
Speaker 3: because when I was there, I was like, this place
Speaker 3: is insane. I got to get back here.
Speaker 2: I went back there.
Speaker 3: I've been back there, but I wasn't like equipped enough enough,
Speaker 3: you know, a good gear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's it's popping.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's full of wildlife and it's like one
Speaker 5: of those places because it's in southern New Mexico, so
Speaker 5: your mind isn't picturing like how alpine it is when
Speaker 5: you're up at nine thousand feet, even though you're in
Speaker 5: the southern you know, the southern end of a southern state.
Speaker 5: But yeah, you get up high enough and it's wet,
Speaker 5: especially in the key part of the year, which is
Speaker 5: you know, the summer, when it would be just absolutely
Speaker 5: baking hot everywhere else on you know, the Lawer elevations.
Speaker 5: But up high they're getting rain. They're getting like monsoonal
Speaker 5: summer rain. So between that and then what naturally happens
Speaker 5: in the winter, it's like, yeah, place is very green,
Speaker 5: even though we're closer to the Mexico border than we
Speaker 5: are to the Colorado border, so that that that's so. Anyways,
Speaker 5: they're gonna do a trip in a place like that.
Speaker 5: But anyway, I'm rambling on.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's great and it's all good information.
Speaker 3: What have you seen on your therm or recorded that?
Speaker 3: Like was the squad because I know when we were
Speaker 3: shooting in West Virginia, we had that had we had
Speaker 3: stuff on drone and those guys were so nervous about
Speaker 3: flying their new thirty five thousand dollars drone they wouldn't
Speaker 3: Like we kind of blew it because we I think
Speaker 3: we had them, We had them right there on camera,
Speaker 3: and then we we flew away too quick. We didn't
Speaker 3: have a backup.
Speaker 2: But have you seen anything like that? Sense you did
Speaker 2: anything happen like that where you think you were on them?
Speaker 5: No, because we haven't. We just simply haven't done the
Speaker 5: drone enough compared to just like people with handheld therms,
Speaker 5: so they haven't got and plus and then you can't
Speaker 5: keep the drone up in the air that long compared
Speaker 5: to people on the ground with handheld therms. So I
Speaker 5: think if there was a thermal drone on every single trip,
Speaker 5: every single Bigfoot expedition, then I think we'd have more.
Speaker 5: But there is handheld therms on every single expedition, So
Speaker 5: it doesn't surprise me that people are getting you know,
Speaker 5: I'm hearing back after expansion. No, we may have got something,
Speaker 5: and then you get something back and it's just like
Speaker 5: it's too distant and too blobby, and I say, you know,
Speaker 5: it really may be a Bigfoot, but it's not going
Speaker 5: to impress anybody. But what I was envisioning at some
Speaker 5: point is that we would popularize the idea of using
Speaker 5: a thermal drone, and that way so many more people
Speaker 5: were going to go out and get them and start
Speaker 5: doing it themselves. But you know, not everybody can lay
Speaker 5: down five grand for a therm for a thermal drone,
Speaker 5: and a lot of people are scared. I mean I
Speaker 5: tell people like, listen, you can get just like kind
Speaker 5: of a trainer drone, you know, for one hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty bucks and then at least get over your fear
Speaker 5: of flying a drone. And they have fear that they're
Speaker 5: going to crash it immediately. And I just and that's
Speaker 5: why what I've had one of the most important things
Speaker 5: I've done when I've been on a trip and had
Speaker 5: my drone is just like force everybody to get a
Speaker 5: little bit of experience flying it and so that they're
Speaker 5: they're at least not afraid of the dam things. You've
Speaker 5: got the fear that they had that the mixes in
Speaker 5: with the price point, that tends to deter.
Speaker 2: A lot of people.
Speaker 5: And but yeah, now people are warming up to there's
Speaker 5: a lot of people buying handheld thermals from us, and
Speaker 5: I think that may be like the next step is
Speaker 5: they see the usefulness of thermal technology if nothing else.
Speaker 5: For you're a lot more comfortable going out in the
Speaker 5: woods when you have a handheld therm so you can
Speaker 5: look around and see, you know, if there's something big
Speaker 5: in the woods, when you hear some you know, move
Speaker 5: into the leaves and kind of the next step from that,
Speaker 5: the step up from that is to being able to
Speaker 5: have that kind of imaging up in the air above
Speaker 5: it and it will you know, I really like it.
Speaker 5: If if the drone prices, I mean it was a
Speaker 5: dramatic jump for the drone prices went from twelve thousand
Speaker 5: to five thousand, five to six thousand, and that was
Speaker 5: the same company that was DJI, And I was hoping
Speaker 5: that price trajectory was going to continue such that like
Speaker 5: thermal drones would eventually then come down to about two
Speaker 5: thousand dollars. But what's happened is the drones themselves the
Speaker 5: price for those. If it's with regular cameras, like daylight cameras,
Speaker 5: those prices do continue to come down. They come down,
Speaker 5: but when you add the thermal element to it, it's
Speaker 5: still expensive.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: It's it makes the drone cost three times as much
Speaker 5: as it was if it just had a daylight camera.
Speaker 3: Whichmalld use Matt I.
Speaker 5: Have one that it's the Mavic DJ Mavic three T
Speaker 5: And I was I should tell you about that. I
Speaker 5: was thrill the other day because I was I saw
Speaker 5: these incredible prices for drones on Temu, and of course
Speaker 5: the advertisement look great. It's got three sixty obstacle detection
Speaker 5: and four K and like all these superficial things, and
Speaker 5: I thought, yeah, I mean, if they're going to be
Speaker 5: that cheap, I'll buy one for every single BFRO organizer.
Speaker 5: And then I start looking into it, and of course
Speaker 5: all those cheap ones. Yeah, they might have a four
Speaker 5: K camera, but it's wide angle and it doesn't zoom in.
Speaker 5: And then I've used AI like rock and Chat GPT
Speaker 5: to tell me like what drone? What? Which drones have
Speaker 5: the best color, like daylight, telephoto ability I'm not even
Speaker 5: getting into. I'm no, I'm not going to get a
Speaker 5: cheap one with thermal, but at least to have something
Speaker 5: so telescopic that you can zoom in on something from
Speaker 5: so far away that it's not going to hear the
Speaker 5: drone and it turns out, Yeah, those Temu drones, no,
Speaker 5: they only have wide angle. And then one of the
Speaker 5: problems is even if it comes with two batteries, you
Speaker 5: might want to get several more so you can be
Speaker 5: flying around for a while and then maybe have enough.
Speaker 5: We're on a quick recharge. You could actually get some
Speaker 5: of them recharging, but they're the problem. You buy off
Speaker 5: of Temu, then you're not gonna It's not like buying
Speaker 5: from Dji, where you could get like the exact accessories
Speaker 5: that go with that drone. You can't do that for
Speaker 5: stuff off of Demo because it's like really shady who's
Speaker 5: making these different drones And you'd have to get in
Speaker 5: touch with them and to just kind of believe these
Speaker 5: people in China that the batteries that you're paying for actually,
Speaker 5: you know, match the drone that you bought from them,
Speaker 5: and good luck. Yeah. So I'm just like, no, it
Speaker 5: was I had high hopes that, you know, I was
Speaker 5: going to be able to get at these good daylight
Speaker 5: telescopic drones for everybody. But no, no, it's it's just
Speaker 5: wine angle, which is only good for landscape shots.
Speaker 2: You know, It's not you got a wine angle on
Speaker 2: a drone.
Speaker 5: You're not gonna see anything, you know, on the ground
Speaker 5: unless it's like a person in daylight in the middle
Speaker 5: of an open field.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bogo will be right back after these messages. Drone technology
Speaker 1: is certainly promising for getting some sort of footage, and
Speaker 1: of course the closer you are to the Sasquatch, the
Speaker 1: better the footage is going to be. But also the
Speaker 1: more probably afraid the Sasquatch is going to be. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be some issues I think with certainly the first
Speaker 1: couple pieces of drone footage, unless that's already been obtained,
Speaker 1: in which case I think I'm right anyway, because I
Speaker 1: haven't heard about them, and there's probably issues with them.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can't tell what it is, or you know,
Speaker 1: it's too far away, it's too ambiguous as sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But you've actually gotten footage of Sasquatches before. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're responsible for the pancake footage in Kentucky, for example,
Speaker 1: and I think it would be instructive to our listeners
Speaker 1: the lengths that you had to go to go through
Speaker 1: to get that footage. I mean, it's ridiculous when I
Speaker 1: tell people, like what you actually had to do to
Speaker 1: obtain that footage. It's astonishing how paranoid I guess Sasquatches
Speaker 1: are that you had to do that. Can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that for us?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the little clips one of you know, the best
Speaker 5: one I don't own because I was paid to go
Speaker 5: get it, and that was for the Kentucky project. But
Speaker 5: I also got to another one in another very brief
Speaker 5: one in Wisconsin, and then one at Wellsville at like
Speaker 5: the same place where I got the Ohio how recording.
Speaker 5: I mean, we're like the surveillance camera was actually mounted
Speaker 5: on the very same tree where the microphone had been mounted.
Speaker 5: Months before that got that recording. And yeah, so in
Speaker 5: all three cases, it wasn't you know, it wasn't with
Speaker 5: a handheld camera. It was always the case where you
Speaker 5: had ones that were coming back over and over, and
Speaker 5: it was setting up a surveillance camera uh. And and
Speaker 5: but surveillance camera at the right place uh and then
Speaker 5: letting it roll and having it aim the right way
Speaker 5: and then getting some kind of you know, some some
Speaker 5: footage that would impressed Bigfoot researchers and the people who
Speaker 5: know us and and yeah, so it was in in
Speaker 5: the for the Wellsville the place where the Ohio recording
Speaker 5: was gotten, it was doing a lot of stuff with
Speaker 5: sound hearing, getting those distent recordings, but also hearing these
Speaker 5: things come up very close to the microphone on a
Speaker 5: number of occasions. And then had to go back then.
Speaker 5: I mean, remember the technology was so different back then,
Speaker 5: like in the mid nineties, so you didn't have the
Speaker 5: cheap stuff that you could buy today. They would have
Speaker 5: they would have illuminator like like covert illuminators in I
Speaker 5: are I basically had to just like cobble this stuff
Speaker 5: together myself and use illuminators that weren't very covert and
Speaker 5: that affected, you know, the behavior of the bigfoots, because
Speaker 5: if they see any kind of little red light on
Speaker 5: it could dramatically, you know, make them a lot more
Speaker 5: cautious than if it's completely dark. And so in Kentucky
Speaker 5: we heard that there was these big poots coming around
Speaker 5: this particular property. We figured out why they were doing it,
Speaker 5: and that was at first because these people were putting
Speaker 5: catfish into this, like this pond that they had dug
Speaker 5: specifically in the purpose of holding catfish that they had
Speaker 5: caught in the river. And they would throw their their
Speaker 5: leftovers into this pond to fatten up the catfish. And
Speaker 5: and that's when they noticed that there was big footprints
Speaker 5: coming around the edge of the pond at night, and
Speaker 5: and something was going in and grabbing those catfish. So
Speaker 5: there's a lot of a lot of legs to that story.
Speaker 5: But basically we talked about it on the group discussion
Speaker 5: and Adrian Erickson said, hey, listen, you got to go
Speaker 5: out with this is a kind of a rare circumstance.
Speaker 5: You've got to go out there and get some footage.
Speaker 5: And here I'll send you some money so you can
Speaker 5: go out and get and get the right kind of
Speaker 5: you know, get something with kind of surveillance equipment, because
Speaker 5: we knew we could use infrared. So I went out
Speaker 5: there and we set that up and and it worked
Speaker 5: right away. I mean we got well, I think the
Speaker 5: first time we set it up and it's like stopped
Speaker 5: recording and it didn't work. But we knew that one
Speaker 5: comer came around because it had taken the plate of food,
Speaker 5: and it was the.
Speaker 2: Very next night and we had it working right and
Speaker 2: it was we had it.
Speaker 5: I learned the past is if you want to try
Speaker 5: to get it with a surveillance camera, the best way
Speaker 5: to do it is have a camera that can be
Speaker 5: at a distance away from the spot where you think
Speaker 5: it's going to come to and kind of zoom in
Speaker 5: so there's not a camera like right there on top
Speaker 5: of them, but a little bit further away. And then
Speaker 5: I had to I remember, I figured out I had
Speaker 5: to get an illuminator that I that would not be
Speaker 5: as visible. There'd be no glow. And of course people say, oh,
Speaker 5: I think they can see in for red. But with
Speaker 5: the pancake footage taught me was because I had a
Speaker 5: nine like like a covert little illuminator that was like
Speaker 5: about the size and shape of a hockey puck that
Speaker 5: I had hanging basically down from a tree, pointed straight
Speaker 5: down to the plate of pancakes. And when we got
Speaker 5: the footage and we saw that this thing that which
Speaker 5: was so skittish about not wanting to come into the light,
Speaker 5: came and sat down right on the berm, right underneath
Speaker 5: this beam of light. And I'm like, Okay, it clearly
Speaker 5: does not know it is being illuminated by something, because
Speaker 5: it wouldn't be. This thing was so careful about not
Speaker 5: stepping in any light that it obviously doesn't know. So
Speaker 5: then I knew then, okay, covert ir especially in that angle,
Speaker 5: because I think it might have seen maybe if they
Speaker 5: can see into the infrared spectrum a little bit better
Speaker 5: than humans can. And of course now we know chimpanzees
Speaker 5: can see a little bit further into the infrared spectrum
Speaker 5: in humanizements.
Speaker 3: I thought it avoided the beam of light when it
Speaker 3: sat down. I thought it on the edge, like just
Speaker 3: off the edge of the light.
Speaker 5: No, it sat down right where it usually set to.
Speaker 5: I mean it was on the edge when it was
Speaker 5: still Like, if it wasn't illuminated by the light, you
Speaker 5: wouldn't have seen it at all in that video, so
Speaker 5: it was it wasn't avoiding it. I mean, if it
Speaker 5: would have sat down, it wouldn't have sat down directly
Speaker 5: underneath it, because it would have fallen off the edge
Speaker 5: into the into this pond. But the beam wasn't just
Speaker 5: like a very tight cone, you know, there was some
Speaker 5: peripheral illumination around it, and the thing definitely got within
Speaker 5: that cone of illumination and didn't stay away from it.
Speaker 5: So it one thing was it didn't look straight up,
Speaker 5: and maybe if it had looked straight up, it might
Speaker 5: have detected a little bit of a dull, faint red glow,
Speaker 5: but it didn't look up and notice anything, so it
Speaker 5: couldn't It certainly couldn't see the illumination on the ground
Speaker 5: around it, like you could see through the infrared surveillance
Speaker 5: camera that we had aimed at it, And so the
Speaker 5: infrared illuminated and could certainly see better infrared better than
Speaker 5: the bigfoots could see. That was pretty obvious to us.
Speaker 5: And so we got that and I think that's still
Speaker 5: probably the longest clip that they got out of that.
Speaker 5: And I kind of extracted myself from that situation because
Speaker 5: it was kind of a conflict in between, you know,
Speaker 5: my approach to trying to get it versus theirs. And
Speaker 5: I thought, if they try to get the camera right down,
Speaker 5: because of course, when you see the footage, you thought, oh,
Speaker 5: I wanted to be more clear, more crisp, and so
Speaker 5: you'd only get that if you brought the camera closer.
Speaker 5: But if you bring the camera closer, then the thing
Speaker 5: might see that and it might be deterred by that.
Speaker 5: And of course that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Now, how far away was the camera and how did
Speaker 1: you hide it from the Sasquatch?
Speaker 5: It was about one hundred feet away. And get this
Speaker 5: was in at a shed, kind of a glorified shed.
Speaker 5: I mean it was a place. It was like a
Speaker 5: work shed that was attached to a garage up on
Speaker 5: a hill, up on a slope, about one hundred feet away.
Speaker 5: And we'd go in the shed where people you know,
Speaker 5: usually aren't in there, and the camera was in the room,
Speaker 5: not at the window, looking right out from the edge
Speaker 5: of the window. We opened up the window and I
Speaker 5: installed the camera at the back of the room, up
Speaker 5: in a little dark cubby inside this dark room inside
Speaker 5: the shed. So it was aimed out through the open
Speaker 5: window across the room and then looking down the slope.
Speaker 5: So there's just no way in hell it could see
Speaker 5: the camera. It would know that there was a camera
Speaker 5: looking at it, and the only risk was whether it
Speaker 5: would notice there's an illuminator there. But then you know,
Speaker 5: if the illuminator had been like down a ground level
Speaker 5: or an eye level looking at outsideways, it might have
Speaker 5: noticed that. And that's what people would do. They put
Speaker 5: the illuminator kind of close to the camera, so it's
Speaker 5: like aimed out in the same direction of the camera.
Speaker 2: I knew that that was a mistake.
Speaker 5: I knew that the camera, I mean, the illuminator had
Speaker 5: to be shining from an angle that the bigfoot wasn't
Speaker 5: gonna immediately see that that illuminator when it walked up
Speaker 5: toward the food. And so yes, the illuminator was up
Speaker 5: in a tree about just like as much as high
Speaker 5: up as I could get it where I could still
Speaker 5: reach it, and then just aimed straight down, so when
Speaker 5: it approached, even if it could see even better into
Speaker 5: the spectrum, it just wouldn't have noticed, and it didn't
Speaker 5: notice that it was approaching that light. And contrast that
Speaker 5: within Ohio. When I got that footage, that was with
Speaker 5: the biggest, like the only illuminator that infrared illuminator I
Speaker 5: could make back then in ninety four was one I
Speaker 5: had to build. I mean I literally got like a
Speaker 5: six inch disc that was Israeli Army surplus infrared glass.
Speaker 2: Uh. And then that.
Speaker 5: Was big enough about six inch in diameters. So I
Speaker 5: then had a machining shop make the housing for it
Speaker 5: so it would slip into this six inch diameter kind
Speaker 5: of cylinder, so imagine something that looked like a cylinder
Speaker 5: like a bucket. Put the illuminator the glass in that,
Speaker 5: and then put a flood lamp behind it, a white
Speaker 5: flood lamp. Well, when he did that, and if you
Speaker 5: looked directly into it, then you'd see a big red cloud.
Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't enough so that it would like
Speaker 5: light up everything, but it was just like you'd notice
Speaker 5: this kind of illumination that was like kind of a
Speaker 5: dull like charcoals on the fire kind of.
Speaker 2: Level of illumination. And the Bigfoot did see that.
Speaker 5: And so when it comes up to the bait box
Speaker 5: in that footage, it kind of leans out from a
Speaker 5: tree and it's it's just so frustrating because it's so
Speaker 5: close to the camera and the illuminator is so bright
Speaker 5: that all you see is a white silhouette, a white
Speaker 5: silhouette of a big, tall thing leaning out slowly from
Speaker 5: behind a tree, leaning over to look at what's in
Speaker 5: the bait box. And so that was definitely footage that
Speaker 5: was definitely a bigfoot. It wouldn't impress anybody else, though,
Speaker 5: like unless you were there, because people would look at
Speaker 5: it and say, you would have no gauge of knowing
Speaker 5: just how big that thing was and knowing, you know,
Speaker 5: how all the other things that had happened there. But
Speaker 5: for me, it was it was great, and I knew
Speaker 5: obviously the thing was it was so cautious about just
Speaker 5: leaning over and then leaning back that it was smart
Speaker 5: enough to know that, oh, yeah, this is there's something
Speaker 5: something not right about this that you know. It wasn't
Speaker 5: encountering situation like that, here's this electronic and this round
Speaker 5: illumine you thing that glows and then there's like a
Speaker 5: camera there that's on a tree. So I think those
Speaker 5: are like the best bets still situations, And of course
Speaker 5: I look for those. I look and listen for those
Speaker 5: where there's a bigfoot repeatedly coming around of private property
Speaker 5: over and over again, and you have competent home owners
Speaker 5: that like you can send some gear to or who
Speaker 5: will be able to buy it themselves, and then who
Speaker 5: will follow kind of your rules of caution about it,
Speaker 5: like and and and and make it so that like,
Speaker 5: not under underestimate how smart the bigfoots are, but set
Speaker 5: it up in such a way as if they're almost
Speaker 5: like trying to catch a human burglar or a human power.
Speaker 5: Making it so it's that concealed.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: And then if you're going to do that nowadays, doing
Speaker 5: it with even cameras that do infrared illuminators, it's so
Speaker 5: much to do that now. But part of one of
Speaker 5: the dynamics is in those situations that the human dynamics
Speaker 5: is people who've got a bigfoot coming around their property
Speaker 5: all the time and like stealing dog food or coming
Speaker 5: to a chicken coop, they don't want the bigfoot coming around.
Speaker 5: They're not happy about it. They want the contact us
Speaker 5: because they want us to make it go away. You know,
Speaker 5: they're not delighted like, oh there's a bigfoot, maybe we
Speaker 5: can get some footage. And you have to try to
Speaker 5: put them in that frame of mind that like, look,
Speaker 5: they're lucky, they're not in danger. They're actually fortunate, and
Speaker 5: there's an opportunity there, and so that's not always the case,
Speaker 5: and that's only rarely the case. And then they have
Speaker 5: to be you know, confident enough to say, okay, I'm
Speaker 5: going to set up this surveillance equipment, you know, thing
Speaker 5: to get it, because they have to think, okay, well,
Speaker 5: what happens if they succeed and if they get some
Speaker 5: footage of a bigfoot on their property and and people
Speaker 5: see the footage and they get all excited and word
Speaker 5: gets out about it, and they know who the you know,
Speaker 5: they hear the people's names, and there then they can
Speaker 5: figure out where the location is. So there's all the
Speaker 5: those kind of complications that you don't think about when
Speaker 5: you're a bigfooter in California trying to tell somebody in Michigan,
Speaker 5: like what they need to do to get footage of
Speaker 5: this bigfoot that's coming around. They have their own concern
Speaker 5: where they're like, I don't know if I should be
Speaker 5: doing this, you know, leave out food for it now, No, no, no,
Speaker 5: we want these things to go away. I'm afraid for
Speaker 5: my wife and my kids. So there's considerations that you
Speaker 5: you don't at first think about, but you always have
Speaker 5: to do with them. So you're looking for that gem
Speaker 5: of like say, an older guy who's very brave, who
Speaker 5: knows enough about the Bigfoot subject to know that they
Speaker 5: don't attack people, and who's technically savvy enough where they
Speaker 5: can set up something like that. And then the other
Speaker 5: thing is then they got to check the footage kind
Speaker 5: of on a regular pattern, so they you know, they
Speaker 5: know if they actually did get something. And so there's
Speaker 5: just there's a whole lot more than you would think
Speaker 5: about it. But I'm minimizing like all the months. I mean,
Speaker 5: the Kentucky thing came together and happened pretty quick. The
Speaker 5: Ohio one took a lot of time. Wisconsin we had
Speaker 5: one set up, and still there was a lot of
Speaker 5: trial and air about where to set up stuff so
Speaker 5: that it would get it. But yeah, so my footage
Speaker 5: and I know people they there's some guys out there.
Speaker 2: And usually the guys who are who.
Speaker 5: Didn't like didn't prefer the idea of setting up a
Speaker 5: surveillance camera and getting it that way in a place
Speaker 5: of coming around because their fantasy is the brave guy
Speaker 5: like the Roger Patterson with the camera who runs up
Speaker 5: to it and he gets the footage and it becomes
Speaker 5: the because he was brave enough, you know, to get
Speaker 5: it handheld. And that's a lot more macho than just
Speaker 5: like setting up some equipment and coming back and getting
Speaker 5: you know, seeing what it got later on.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's exactly why someone like Mike Green
Speaker 1: was successful, because he pulled himself out of the situation.
Speaker 1: I've seen there's other footage that I'm aware of that
Speaker 1: have been taken on surveillance cameras, like home surveillance cameras
Speaker 1: that that like it's pretty okay, you know, and and
Speaker 1: wouldn't again, it wouldn't convince anybody outside the bigfoot world.
Speaker 1: But I know these witnesses and they got one and
Speaker 1: I think it's real. And they showed me the footprints
Speaker 1: that went with it. But whatever, somebody poo poos footage like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not very good, or you know, that's that does
Speaker 1: just look like anything. Whatever. I always say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: feel free to do better. I'd love to see it,
Speaker 1: you know, because none of this is easy, right, right, and.
Speaker 5: So the benefit people understand, like like in the case
Speaker 5: of Mike Green, one of the key key things was
Speaker 5: there is he was camping there hoping many times a
Speaker 5: thing would come up and you know, come around while
Speaker 5: he was there where he could get it in handheld mode.
Speaker 5: And then the way he finally got is he left
Speaker 5: out the candy bar and he left the campground. He
Speaker 5: bugged out of the campsite and he was gone and
Speaker 5: then it comes up to get the candy bar. So
Speaker 5: you know, so there was a situation where he had
Speaker 5: proved it's like it makes a big difference if you
Speaker 5: can extract yourself from the situation and just let the
Speaker 5: equipment do the work. And it was people say, oh,
Speaker 5: that's not going to convince anybody. I mean, remember Mike
Speaker 5: Green thought that that was going to be like the
Speaker 5: end all. He was like wanted to hype it is
Speaker 5: that's the best thing since the Patterson footage. So he
Speaker 5: thought it was more important and valuable than it really was.
Speaker 5: I was told him, listen, Mike, the value of it
Speaker 5: is is it shows you that there's one there. It
Speaker 5: shows you that they they do have a thermal signature.
Speaker 5: It's going to stand out in the woods like that,
Speaker 5: and it's valuable and then it should give you reason
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 2: Back and keep trying to get more footage.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the two big takeaways from Mike Green's
Speaker 1: footage is number one, that they're hiding from us in
Speaker 1: the dark, you know. I think that's a big takeaway
Speaker 1: that they they probably don't understand that we who look
Speaker 1: so similar to them, can't see in the dark as
Speaker 1: well as they can. I think that's a huge takeaway
Speaker 1: for us bigfooters. And the second thing, of course, is
Speaker 1: that Mike did leave the situation because you're a hundred
Speaker 1: percent right. Everybody wants to be Roger Patterson. Everybody wants
Speaker 1: to be the guy or gal holding the camera. But
Speaker 1: I think that that's a huge takeaway as well as
Speaker 1: if you can remove your ego from the situation, I
Speaker 1: think you probably have a better shot at footage, right.
Speaker 2: And I took that to the extreme.
Speaker 5: It's like, not only am I do I not have
Speaker 5: to be the hero by holding the camera, but I
Speaker 5: don't even have to be there. I don't care who
Speaker 5: gets it. I would tell some some witness who's got
Speaker 5: some activity and tell them how to do it so
Speaker 5: they can, you know, get the glory, or maybe some
Speaker 5: other bigfoot researcher who goes there, but you know, and
Speaker 5: the best bet would be the property owner themselves. But yeah,
Speaker 5: they talk about it with their wife and they're thinking, yeah,
Speaker 5: we can get some footage on our own property that's
Speaker 5: going to become famous all over the place. And then
Speaker 5: we have to worry about people with guns sneaking on
Speaker 5: our property trying to kill the thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: So there's that that that issue always comes up, but
Speaker 5: it's or very often comes up. But yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 5: more you extract yourself in those situations and where and
Speaker 5: thereby raising your odds that you're going to get something,
Speaker 5: then it really shows kind of like what I saw
Speaker 5: recently with this thing in you know, between Toledo and Detroit.
Speaker 5: There's the bigfooters who want to like gather the information,
Speaker 5: really want to understand the big pots, and then the
Speaker 5: ones who are doing it because they want the evidence,
Speaker 5: they want to be the heroes who gets it, so
Speaker 5: they could have a YouTube channel or a YouTube video
Speaker 5: showing how great they are and how brave they are,
Speaker 5: and and and they think like, unless it's gonna unless
Speaker 5: the footage is gonna immediately make a folk hero out
Speaker 5: of them, that it's not even worth the effort. It's like, okay, well,
Speaker 5: you know, if those are your conditions, then you're not
Speaker 5: gonna go very far if you need to be there
Speaker 5: the one holding the camera, and you're not gonna be
Speaker 5: idea of just being able to say, yeah, I got
Speaker 5: it was with a surveillance camera and I wasn't there
Speaker 5: and maybe somebody else was helping me. If that isn't
Speaker 5: good enough for them, then you know, the hell with them.
Speaker 5: They're just they're just one of these big footers that's
Speaker 5: really just trying to become a hero rather than trying
Speaker 5: to document these things and understand them whatever little clues
Speaker 5: you can glean from it, Like with Mike Green video,
Speaker 5: like you said, it was sneaky even though it was
Speaker 5: totally dark there, and the thing was still belly crawling
Speaker 5: around in total darkness. But yeah, they can't understand that
Speaker 5: we you know, I think they know that we can't
Speaker 5: see as well as they can in the dark. But
Speaker 5: in that case, it's the thing is belly crawling around
Speaker 5: even though Mike has left the campground, And I think
Speaker 5: part of it was they know that at any moment,
Speaker 5: somebody maybe at another camp site across the way because
Speaker 5: there was still I think a couple of other people there,
Speaker 5: I don't remember what he is the only one in
Speaker 5: the whole campground. But where they're coming around people at night,
Speaker 5: they seem to be very aware that you might bust
Speaker 5: out a spotlight. So it's not necessarily that they can
Speaker 5: they think you can see them at the moment, but
Speaker 5: that they could be unless they have something they can
Speaker 5: get behind or standard cover, that they could be lit
Speaker 5: up by a light. And they don't want to be
Speaker 5: lit up by a light, you know. And and so
Speaker 5: belly crawling through the grass is if they want to
Speaker 5: come up and grab a candy bar is something that
Speaker 5: they won't hesitate doing.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Matt, we've been on for a little
Speaker 1: over an hour now, so and it turns out that
Speaker 1: when you consented to going on to the members episode afterwards,
Speaker 1: and we put a little post out to our members
Speaker 1: and I did, I did mention that we have some
Speaker 1: of the best you know, follow on our membership program anywhere,
Speaker 1: I think, and we apparently have been flooded with questions
Speaker 1: for you for the last hour or while we've been
Speaker 1: doing the main episode, So we have a lot of
Speaker 1: questions in our members episode, So why don't we pop
Speaker 1: over there and do that episode if you don't mind,
Speaker 1: then we can continue the conversations over there. Okay, no problem, Okay,
Speaker 1: So Matt, thank you very much for coming on. And
Speaker 1: if everybody wants to be a member of Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: Beyond and join the Pigeons as we call them, just
Speaker 1: go to that link in the show notes down there
Speaker 1: that the lovely and talented Matt Bruit has put down there.
Speaker 1: And what you get for that five dollars a month
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Speaker 1: you also get pictures and videos and other stuff that
Speaker 1: we put out there for you guys when it has
Speaker 1: something to do with the podcast that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much to our fantastic guests and
Speaker 1: good friend Moneymaker. Really appreciate your time, my friend, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna hop over there to the member section as
Speaker 1: soon as Bobo gets us out of here, all righty, yeah.
Speaker 3: Folks, we really think Matt money maker for coming on.
Speaker 3: We know you've all been excited for this so as
Speaker 3: we are, were and are, and we will see you
Speaker 3: all next week and until then, keep it squatchy.
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