1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. 3 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:11,679 Speaker 3: I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,439 now trying to use my experience as the brother of 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,399 a murder victim to help other victims of violent crime. 6 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:20,719 I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders, 7 00:00:20,879 --> 00:00:23,600 and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,519 Facebook group together with Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 4: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,079 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,840 social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,079 Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas. 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 5: Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,399 I'm Bill Thomas, and we're recording this on Saturday. And 15 00:00:49,439 --> 00:00:52,280 it is less than a week since the big news 16 00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:55,079 about the Big solves and the Colonial Parkway murders case. 17 00:00:55,159 --> 00:00:57,520 And I can't begin to tell you how exhausted we 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,840 both are. 19 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 3: We forget happy Martin Luther King Day to everyone. We 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,760 hope our conversation today about developments in the Colonial Parkway murders, 21 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:10,920 and the exciting news doesn't overshadow the fact that this 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,120 is also a solemn day in that regard. 23 00:01:13,719 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: With that said, on with the show. 24 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:23,799 Speaker 5: It has been a head spinning, stomach journeying, heartburnt inducing week. 25 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:27,359 It's been thrilling and amazing. But I don't think the 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,120 two of us ever want to go on social media again. 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,239 Speaker 2: We have no choice. 28 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:33,519 Speaker 6: We have no choice. 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,599 Speaker 5: But wow, you're sipping out a cup of tea because 30 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,439 your voice is about to go out because you've been 31 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:41,280 doing so much media and. 32 00:01:41,239 --> 00:01:45,599 Speaker 3: Podcasting, Yes, both Mind over Murder podcasting, and we'll be 33 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,719 appearing on several other podcasts in the coming weeks. So 34 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:54,079 there's been a lot going on. As my mom would say. 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,519 Speaker 6: It's been unreal. 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,079 Speaker 5: Everybody who has really shown up on social media to cheer, 37 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,000 to offer kind thoughts about the fact that there have 38 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:08,319 been these wondrous new developments in the Colonial Parkway murders. 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,439 Thank you all so much for showing up, for being 40 00:02:11,479 --> 00:02:15,360 happy for us, for asking questions, and for downloading episodes 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,120 of the podcast. 42 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 6: We really truly appreciate it. 43 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 5: We would not be doing this without your love and support, 44 00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:24,319 So thank you guys, first and foremost, we want to 45 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,080 make sure we say it at the end of the 46 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,080 busiest week of our podcasting career. 47 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 6: Thank you very much for being here with us. We 48 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:31,199 appreciate it. 49 00:02:31,719 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: We're thrilled again for the Edwards, Nobling and Howell families. 50 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,360 They received an incredibly important piece of news about the 51 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:46,639 fact that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior had been confirmed to 52 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,840 be the killer of those three individuals. He is a 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,520 serial killer. He is a suspect in all four of 54 00:02:54,599 --> 00:02:57,280 the Colonial Parkway murders, and I think it may be 55 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:00,919 very likely that he will be identified as a suspect 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,120 and ultimately an offender in other unsolved murders in Virginia. 57 00:03:05,439 --> 00:03:08,879 Speaker 5: Mark my words, I one hundred percent agree with you, 58 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:11,639 and in my copious amount of free time over the 59 00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:14,560 last couple of days, I have been sitting and reworking 60 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,439 a timeline based on other unsolved cases around this area 61 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,680 and around the area where Alan Wade Wilmer Senior is 62 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:24,960 known to have spent time. And I think it is 63 00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:27,960 very likely that there are going to be other cases 64 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:29,120 that he is involved in. 65 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 3: I know there are Virginia State Police cases and FBI 66 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,680 cases in Virginia that are being looked at now. Additionally, 67 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:41,439 I can't count how many other cases people have reached 68 00:03:41,479 --> 00:03:45,039 out to us to talk to us about. Most important 69 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:48,719 is that people reach out directly to the Virginia State 70 00:03:48,759 --> 00:03:52,120 Police and the FBI. Kristin Dilly and Bill Thomas are 71 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,319 not investigators. We can't solve the Colonial Parkway murders or 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,080 any other unsolved murders in Virginia dependent on law enforcement 73 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,479 to do that important job. So please, if you have 74 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:13,000 any information about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and his activities, 75 00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:17,279 particularly in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, even if 76 00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:21,240 you've reported it before, please reach out to the Virginia 77 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,720 State Police or the FBI. We need their help and 78 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,920 they need all of our help to provide information which 79 00:04:28,959 --> 00:04:33,120 will help position him. As Kristen's saying about timelines, they're 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,240 trying to do a really complicated thing, which is to 81 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,279 build out a timeline around a man who's dead and 82 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,160 died in twenty seventeen at age sixty three, and they're 83 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,800 trying to do this thirty something years later. Anything you 84 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,279 know about this man, which can be the most innocuous thing. 85 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:52,759 I used to dock my boat in Hampton or Gloucester 86 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,519 and the Denny Wade. His boat, a thirty two foot 87 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,240 fishing boat was parked right next door, and I used 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,600 to see him. There's a lot the things that we 89 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:03,639 want to get into today that are incredibly important, and 90 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,240 that the FBI and the Virginia State Police need your help, 91 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,079 and they need your help now, and please, I want 92 00:05:09,079 --> 00:05:12,000 to beg people sending the information to Kristen and Bill 93 00:05:12,199 --> 00:05:14,920 is wonderful. And I'm not saying we're not going to 94 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,040 take it to the FBI and the Virginia State Police, 95 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:20,600 but they want to hear from you directly. The same time, 96 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,480 we're seeing people comment on social media posts, not just 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,160 on the Colonial Parkway murders and Mind of a Murder 98 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,199 Facebook page, but on their own personal pages. Then people 99 00:05:29,319 --> 00:05:32,680 are seeing things. There's nothing wrong with you commenting about 100 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,439 it on your social media page, but for God's sake, 101 00:05:35,759 --> 00:05:39,079 copy and paste that if you will, and send it 102 00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:43,160 in to the FBI or the Virginia State Police or both. 103 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,639 You saying, oh, I knew Alan Wade Wilmer and I 104 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,959 used to work with him in his tree business, or 105 00:05:49,079 --> 00:05:52,319 I used to know the Wilmer family when I was young. 106 00:05:52,759 --> 00:05:56,680 Please send that information in because remember, if you're placing 107 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,240 this serial killer at particular places and times while the 108 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:05,079 VSP and the FBI are building out their timeline. Even 109 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,079 something as simple as I worked on this project with him, 110 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:11,480 or I used to hang out at this bar with him, 111 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:16,680 those things place him at locations and times that may 112 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,759 line up with some of the unsolved murders that we're 113 00:06:18,759 --> 00:06:19,639 talking about. 114 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 5: And it does not have to be an example of 115 00:06:22,959 --> 00:06:26,639 you witnessed him doing something weird or you saw him 116 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:29,480 commit a crime. It really does just need to be 117 00:06:29,519 --> 00:06:32,040 something as simple as we used to hang out at 118 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,879 this club together, we used to get drinks after a 119 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:38,000 day's worth of oystering together. We just have to be 120 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,480 able to place this guy in as many locations as possible. 121 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,040 And as Bill said earlier, we really do appreciate everybody 122 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,959 who's sending in tips and information. We aren't investigators, and 123 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,399 the FBI and the VSP have far more resources and 124 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,480 far more manpower than two very overworked podcasters who also 125 00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:00,680 have day jobs in addition to that, have so many 126 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,160 hours available to us in the day, and we can't 127 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,639 follow every lead. We do need everybody, please to make 128 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,439 sure that you send the information in via email or 129 00:07:10,439 --> 00:07:12,839 that you call the FBI. I'm going to give that 130 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,920 information now, we'll give it again at the end of 131 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,000 the podcast, and we'll put it in our show notes. 132 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,480 So to contact the FBI, you call their tip line 133 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:22,920 at one eight hundred call FBI. 134 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,639 Speaker 6: That's C A L L FBI. 135 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:29,879 Speaker 5: You can submit a tip online at tips dot FBI 136 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,160 dot gov, and you can email the Virginia State Police 137 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,800 at Questions at vsp dot Virginia spelled all the way 138 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:38,959 out dot gov. 139 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,959 Speaker 3: Two other quick thoughts real important the public needs to 140 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,759 know and all of us have to remember that the 141 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,600 Wilmer family and the younger generation. He has two kids, 142 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,639 they have children who'd be Alan Wilmer Senior's grandchildren had 143 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,920 nothing to do with this. I think the sun was 144 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,399 eight years old at the time of the Colonial Parkway murders. 145 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:07,800 This is literally thirty seven years ago. They aren't going 146 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:12,000 to know anything about this. They don't need to be harassed. 147 00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:15,360 We've heard stories that people are saying mean things to 148 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:16,480 the grandkids. 149 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,959 Speaker 2: This is outrageous. 150 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,439 Speaker 3: I've seen on social media people lashing out at Alan Wilmer. 151 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:27,759 I understand the anger, trust me, I'm feeling the same thing. 152 00:08:27,879 --> 00:08:32,559 But putting up nasty grams on his obituary page and 153 00:08:32,759 --> 00:08:37,159 harassing the families. It's not appropriate. Let law enforcement do 154 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:41,080 its job. Leave the family alone. They are going through 155 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,159 a very difficult time. I have zero sympathy for Alan 156 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:48,919 Wade Wilmer Senior, but I have no acts to grind 157 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,639 with the rest of that family. We just need to 158 00:08:51,759 --> 00:08:56,240 leave them alone. One other thing regarding tips, very important. 159 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,399 We mentioned this the other day. The FBI and the 160 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Virginia State Police don't care what you were into in 161 00:09:01,639 --> 00:09:05,200 the eighties or nineties, this time frame that we're talking about. 162 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,120 We know that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was into some 163 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,679 really sketchy stuff. He's a serial killer. He is likely 164 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,720 going to be linked to other unsolved murders in Virginia. 165 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:20,320 If you're uncomfortable reaching out now when they need the information, 166 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,720 no matter how simple or basic it is, nobody cares 167 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:27,600 that you were doing something maybe you shouldn't have been 168 00:09:27,639 --> 00:09:32,759 doing or whatever. They don't care about your underage drinking 169 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:34,679 or the fact that you were involved in a drug 170 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,840 deal or or someplace where you shouldn't have been. They 171 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,879 want the information about Allan Wade Wilmer seniors whereabouts in 172 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:47,159 the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties. To build out a 173 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:51,879 case and a timeline against a serial killer is incredibly challenging. 174 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,840 Let's be grown ups about this. No one's trying to 175 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,120 bust you for some dumb thing you did back in 176 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:00,399 the eighties or nineties. And by the way, I should 177 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:04,200 even say, stretching into the two thousands, I never got 178 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,320 into calling them the oughts. Really, we can't come up 179 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,159 with something better. They think he was an active serial 180 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,639 killer for a number of years, and a lot of 181 00:10:15,639 --> 00:10:19,240 those serial killer cliches about serial killers always kill them 182 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,519 the same way. They always like the same kind of victim. 183 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000 Put outside all that stuff, Kristain and I have met 184 00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:29,879 with amazing profilers, many of whom you've heard of and 185 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,759 read about. We've been lucky enough to have a chance 186 00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:34,759 to speak to and by the way, some of them 187 00:10:34,799 --> 00:10:36,440 may be coming on mind of a murderer in. 188 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,799 Speaker 2: Them not too distant future. 189 00:10:38,159 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: They've educated us we're not the experts, but we are 190 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,240 lucky enough to know some experts. 191 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,759 Speaker 2: They'll actually talk to us. 192 00:10:45,159 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: These cliches about serial killers are like an automaton, and 193 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,759 they only kill one way, using a knife or a 194 00:10:51,799 --> 00:10:55,759 gun or whatever, or they only kill one kind of victim. 195 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,759 None of those things are true. And even as Kristin 196 00:10:59,799 --> 00:11:02,559 has been and studying what we know so far about 197 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,440 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, we're seeing a real variety. We'll 198 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,360 be talking about that in a future episode of Mind 199 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:12,440 Over Murder. But there's some very interesting things about this 200 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,240 man's career as a serial killer, if you want to 201 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,320 call it that, that completely blow out any preconceived notions 202 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,679 you might have had about the only attack this kind 203 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,840 of person and they only use this kind of weapon. 204 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,279 That is not true in the Colonial Parkery murders, and 205 00:11:27,399 --> 00:11:29,960 it's not true in what I believe will be other 206 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,080 cases linked to him. 207 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,919 Speaker 5: One of the things that you've probably noticed that we're 208 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,519 doing a lot in this episode is we are using 209 00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:40,039 the term serial killer, and that is because that is 210 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:45,279 precisely what this man is. According to the criteria from 211 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,240 the FBI, the definition of a serial killer is someone 212 00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:53,240 who has killed two or more people in two distinct, 213 00:11:53,399 --> 00:11:58,679 separate events. That meets the criteria. Robin Edwards and David 214 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:01,720 Nobling were killed on Ragged Island in September of nineteen 215 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,559 eighty seven. Teresa Howell was killed in June of nineteen 216 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:09,679 eighty nine. That is three victims in two distinct events. 217 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:12,360 He meets the criteria for a serial killer. 218 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 6: The FBI has not. 219 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,919 Speaker 5: Used that terminology yet in their press conference, but let's 220 00:12:17,919 --> 00:12:21,879 be clear here, folks. There was a serial killer stalking 221 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,960 the Tidewater area of Virginia and there are going to 222 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 be more crimes attributed to him. So you're going to 223 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,679 hear us use that term a lot. 224 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: The other thing that comes out of the press conference, 225 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,799 and this wasn't made clear at all in the press conference, 226 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:42,159 is that the confirmation of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior as 227 00:12:42,519 --> 00:12:46,159 the Colonial Parkway killer, an expression I don't particularly care for, 228 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,639 is important here. His identification as the killer of three 229 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,039 people confirms that the Colonial Parkway murders is real and 230 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,240 that we have a murder series on our hands. We 231 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,360 can't lose sight of the fact that Alan Wade Wilmer 232 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,559 Senior was the number one suspect in the disappearance of 233 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,240 Keith cal and Cassandra Haley on the Colonial Parkway in. 234 00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty eight. 235 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 3: That disappearance is bracketed by as Kristen saying, the nineteen 236 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,000 eighty seven murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling, now 237 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,919 confirmed to be Wilmer, and then the nineteen eighty nine 238 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:31,399 murder of Teresa Howell, also now confirmed. Not yet confirmed 239 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,799 is any role that he might have played in the 240 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,240 disappearance and likely homicide of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley. He 241 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,879 was the first suspect from the very first few days 242 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:48,279 of the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley, as Blaine 243 00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:50,919 Pardo has talked about in his book, and I want 244 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,360 to be clear about this. I heard this story from 245 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:57,960 my father, Joseph Thomas, who passed away a couple of 246 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,240 years ago at age ninety. My father told me this 247 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:05,360 exact story in nineteen eighty eight, and he heard it 248 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,559 from the FBI agents who were working this case at 249 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,879 that time. Remember, my sister Kathy Thomas and her girlfriend, 250 00:14:12,879 --> 00:14:15,799 Rebecca Udowski were killed in nineteen eighty six in October. 251 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,159 My father then acted as our family liaison with the FBI, 252 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,279 and he spoke to the FBI agents, the case agents frequently. 253 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,159 He held them in very high regard. I was nearly 254 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,399 thirty years old at the time of that murder, and 255 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,519 I was very interested in what had happened to our 256 00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:33,879 sister Kathy and her girlfriend Rebecca. So my dad and 257 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:36,440 I would sit down out of your shot of the 258 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,200 rest of the family. This was so upsetting for my family, 259 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,159 as you can imagine, especially from my mother. I would 260 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,639 sit down with my dad. We'd go off into a 261 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,960 quiet corner in our house somewhere, and my dad would say, 262 00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:50,120 you might say, even over dinner, I spoke with the 263 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,799 FBI today, which happened a lot. We heard these agents' 264 00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:59,679 names around the dinner table so often that I remembered them. 265 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,720 John Maybray, Bob Meadows, Robert Meadows is his real name. 266 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,120 My dad held these people in really high regard. Now 267 00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:11,279 I can't tell you which agent told my father this story, 268 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,360 but this driveway story, as I called it, was something 269 00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:17,879 that I knew had happened as far back as nineteen 270 00:15:17,919 --> 00:15:20,559 eighty eight. Some of you may remember that a few 271 00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:23,480 years ago we did a television series called The Lover's 272 00:15:23,559 --> 00:15:26,559 Lane Murders for Oxygen. Don't ask me why they renamed 273 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,840 the show was supposed to be called. 274 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:30,039 Speaker 2: The Colonial Parkway Murders. Don't even go there. 275 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,679 Speaker 3: As part of that series, we actually shot a whole 276 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:38,799 series of interviews with various players with expert knowledge of 277 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,360 the case, as well as family members and media people, 278 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,919 and you know what goes into creating a television documentary. 279 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,480 We actually shot all those interviews twice, so I went 280 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:54,799 to IRV Wells home. IRV Wells was the special Agent 281 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,279 in charge. They called him the SAC. He was the 282 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,960 SAC during the Colonial Parkway murders. He was in charge 283 00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:05,879 of all of the FBI agents who were working on 284 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,039 Kathy Thomas and Rebeccadowski's murders, and then a year and 285 00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:12,720 a half later, the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley 286 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,480 also on one of these half moon pull offs along 287 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,679 the York River. I sat with him on two separate 288 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,440 occasions in his living room in Virginia Beach for for 289 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,679 probably three to four hours. Kristen, and only a couple 290 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,600 of minutes of that footage ends up in a television 291 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:31,200 documentary like The Lover's Lane Murders, which by the way, 292 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:34,600 is worth going back and taking another look at a 293 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:37,360 lot of times when you're doing television, there's all this 294 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,759 setup time. Kristen's appeared in this documentary and knows about 295 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:45,080 this as well. They shoot for hours they only used 296 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,200 two minutes. And at the same time, it's a complicated 297 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,559 process from a technology perspective. I've worked in film and television, 298 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,480 and I find it fascinating. It takes hours to set 299 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,960 up the equipment, get the lighting right. This is all 300 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,919 very important, and get the sounds sorted out. So Irv 301 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,599 and I had hours together to just sit and talk. 302 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:09,119 Irva was a wonderful man. Unfortunately passed away recently, so 303 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,200 he's not here to talk with us anymore. He told 304 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,440 me the driveway story. We went back over that. He 305 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,839 also told me that the Colonial Parkway murders were his 306 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,359 single greatest professional regret as an FBI agent and a 307 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,920 special agent in charge. So here's this man who's went 308 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,279 to retirement by the time I was sitting down with 309 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,279 him and just filled with regret to that day, the 310 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,720 single greatest disappointment in his professional career as an FBI agent. 311 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,319 You're listening to mindover Murder. We'll be right back after 312 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:48,480 this word from our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. 313 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,359 So this driveway story is real. Just to finish that out, 314 00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:57,880 the FBI was looking for a very distinctive truck. The 315 00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:00,559 truck you're seeing in all the media. Yeah, and we'll 316 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,279 include in the show notes. This is the blue green 317 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,960 nineteen sixty six Dodge Fargo truck and it's got tongs 318 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,319 on the back of it, which almost to me, as 319 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,440 a civilian, looked like a tow truck. Kristin educated me 320 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,400 a little bit about oystermen and watermen and how you 321 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,079 would use these tongs to reach into the water to 322 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,400 pull out crab pots or haul oyster. So that truck 323 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,519 was very distinctive, and the FBI was looking for that 324 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:33,039 truck because it was reported to have been on the 325 00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:36,160 Colonial Parkway the night that Keith and Sandy went missing, 326 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:39,720 pulling in from one of these half moon pull offs 327 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,720 to another. Now, once the FBI figured out who that 328 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:46,880 truck belonged to, because it had a very distinctive license 329 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,920 plate E M Raw, which, by the way, blam Pardo 330 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,359 was obligated to change slightly in his book because he 331 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,880 didn't want people harassing what we thought at that point 332 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,319 might be an innocent man. So the em Raw license 333 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,039 plate was very distinctive. Within days, the FBI had this information, 334 00:19:05,559 --> 00:19:09,920 and these two FBI agents rolled up on Wilmer's home 335 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,440 up in Lancaster County and interviewed him, and he was 336 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:17,799 We've heard a couple of different versions, but cleaning with 337 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,680 solvent of some sort and repainting the bed of his 338 00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:27,279 truck and the interior of his truck in a way 339 00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:31,519 that the FBI agents found highly suspicious. I'm not sure 340 00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:34,160 whether they ever took him into custody or not, but 341 00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:38,480 ultimately they gave him and a second man a lie 342 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:44,319 detector test, polygraph examination. He passed the polygraph examination and 343 00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:50,400 for whatever reason, was dismissed as a subject. So what's 344 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:56,680 heartbreaking is Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was a suspect from 345 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,200 essentially day one of the Keith Collin Cassandra hi Elite disappearance. 346 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,000 And I want to be clear here he could be 347 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:07,519 regarded as a suspect in all four of the double 348 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:09,440 homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders. 349 00:20:09,839 --> 00:20:12,839 Speaker 6: Now let's also clear up another thing, because for anybody 350 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,319 who's saying, Bill, I guess I missed that at the 351 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,839 press conference where they talked about the fact that he 352 00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:21,240 was the first suspect prime suspect if you will, in 353 00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:22,599 the call Haley disappearance. 354 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 5: No, you didn't miss it. They never talked about it. 355 00:20:25,839 --> 00:20:28,599 They never talked about it. In fact, I'm going to 356 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,880 quote from my transcription of the press conference here as 357 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:36,440 they speak very specifically about the Colonial Parkway murders. So 358 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:39,440 here I'm going to go ahead end quote from Corin Geller, 359 00:20:39,559 --> 00:20:42,640 who is the public information officer who was giving this 360 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,119 press conference quote. Now, many in the region will recognize 361 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,720 that the Isle of Wight double homicide as one that 362 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:51,960 occurred during a series of double homicides collectively known as 363 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,079 the Colonial Parkway murders. Although the similarities in these double homicides, 364 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,960 which spanned a three year period, cannot be ignored. Emphasis mind, 365 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,759 at this time, there is no forensic or physical evidence 366 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:07,079 to link the Isle of Wight County homicides to those 367 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,920 other double murders. The remaining double homicides, the two in 368 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,720 York County that occurred on the Colonial Parkway and the 369 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:17,680 one that occurred in New Kent County, are still active investigations, 370 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,960 and our combined investigative efforts continue. 371 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 3: Far be it from me to parse what's being said there, 372 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,319 but note the use of the word forensic and physical. 373 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 6: YEP, I was about to say the same thing. 374 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 3: Look, I agree, there is no evidence that we're aware 375 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,279 of that links the Colonial Parkway murders. We've asked this 376 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,480 as families numerous times, and assuming we're getting a straight answer, 377 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:45,400 they've told us repeatedly, including a couple of months ago, 378 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:49,279 that there was no forensic evidence linking the four double 379 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:54,160 homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders. But there is evidence 380 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,920 linking Alan Wade Wilmer Senior to two of the four 381 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,200 double homicides that I believe there's a strong evidence that 382 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:10,279 indicates that he was on FBI radar for the disappearance 383 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:15,240 of Keith Collin Cassandra Haley. It's the following April nineteen 384 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:19,119 eighty eight, after the September nineteen eighty seven murder of 385 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,640 Robin Edwards and David Noveling, And if we go back 386 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,039 one more year, we've got Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski 387 00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:29,160 also dying on the Colonial Parkway, and then of course 388 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,119 the murder series closes out and we're not sure if 389 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,240 these are all related. He is still being regarded as 390 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,680 a suspect in the nineteen eighty nine murder of Anna 391 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,079 Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower. That's the case up on 392 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,160 Interstate sixty four over Labor Day weekend nineteen eighty nine. 393 00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:52,000 So I'm sorry that when Andy Fox, whose longtime reporter 394 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:58,440 here in the Williamsburg market, asks the question twice, can 395 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,440 we ask how Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior, And keep in mind, 396 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,839 the suspect's dead, not like anybody's going to jail here, 397 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:07,799 and it's not like any of this is being brought 398 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:11,480 into court. Andy Fox is heard at the press conference 399 00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:15,319 asking twice, and this is not an unreasonable question. Can 400 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,240 we ask how Alan Wade Wilmer Senior moved on to 401 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,720 FBI Virginia State Police's radar and they said no, And 402 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,920 I am I'm horrified that we're going to play that 403 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,200 we're going to play these kind of games. 404 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: Shall we say, yeah, I. 405 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,279 Speaker 6: Want to pick up on something you said a minute ago. 406 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 5: You had said assuming we get a straight answer from 407 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,799 the FBI with regard to you and the families, Normally 408 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,240 you're the person who's salty about the FBI. But let 409 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:43,119 me just go ahead and take a moment to have 410 00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:46,079 mine to I am find being salty about this. I 411 00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:48,160 don't think you can assume you're getting a straight answer 412 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,759 out of the FBI. I truly don't. And to the 413 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,519 FBI analyst who has no doubt listening to this. Sorry, 414 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:55,839 but I'm willing to be salty about this for a second. 415 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,680 I don't think you can assume that you get a 416 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,960 straight answer out of the FBI with regard to anything 417 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,000 about these cases. I think that's unfortunate because I'm a 418 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,759 big fan and a big proponent of the work that 419 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:07,240 the FBI does. But I don't think you can assume 420 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,079 anymore that you're going to get a straight answer out 421 00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:11,240 of them. And I think that's really unfortunate because I 422 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,640 do hold them in high regard. Before we get into 423 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,960 the particulars of her case, I do want to speak 424 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,119 to the fact that we didn't really. 425 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 6: Know a whole lot about this. 426 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 5: First of all, we have always wondered if there were 427 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,720 I'm going to use my term for it, parkway adjacent cases. 428 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,519 We had always done with the assumption that maybe Brian 429 00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:31,000 Pettinger was going to be a parkway adjacent case, maybe 430 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,480 Lauren Powell was going to be a parkway adjacent case, 431 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,440 until some media sources came to us a couple of 432 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,279 months ago and said, hey, have you heard about the 433 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,279 murder of Teresa Howell. Both of us were like, No, 434 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,279 we haven't heard about the murder of Teresa Howell, and 435 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:49,000 I do feel bad that we had never linked her 436 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:53,319 in as a Parkway adjacent case. What we understand about 437 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960 her murder is so different from what. 438 00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,519 Speaker 6: We had considered parkway adjacent cases. 439 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 5: Brian and Laurie Anne, I don't think we ever considered 440 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,200 the possibility that we should group her in there. We 441 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,720 have considerably less information about Teresa Howell's case than I 442 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,039 would like to have, and I'm hoping to remedy that 443 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,480 in the near future by doing some more research. But 444 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,839 we do know that Teresa Howell disappeared in June of 445 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,880 nineteen eighty nine, after last being seen at the Zodiac 446 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,519 Club on Mercury Boulevard in Hampton. 447 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 3: We know that Teresa Howell was separated from her husband. 448 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,759 She was heading into a divorce. She was twenty nine 449 00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:35,519 years old. She's seen at this place, the Zodiac Club, which, 450 00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:40,480 as I understand it was adjacent to another club known 451 00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:43,640 as the Ivory Horse. We're learning a lot more people 452 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,279 are reaching out to us. The Zodiac Club was quote 453 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,519 unquote a private club. You had to be a member, 454 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,720 and you had to be signed in either as a 455 00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:57,000 member or by a member in order to be able 456 00:25:57,039 --> 00:25:58,839 to go into the club. I don't know how strictly 457 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,680 they held to. These are told that the Ivory Horse 458 00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:05,559 was right next door and that the Zodiac Club would 459 00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:09,000 stay open until five am, which is way later than 460 00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:13,400 bars are open in Virginia. Because of this private club status, 461 00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:16,519 one of the things we want to ask our listeners 462 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,920 is what do you know about the Zodiac Club? Did 463 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,319 you ever go to the Zodiac Club or the Ivory 464 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,160 Horse which was apparently connected to the Zodiac Club. Did 465 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,880 you ever see Alan Wade Wilmer there. This would have 466 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,319 been in the eighties or nineties, keeping in mind that 467 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,319 Teresa Howell was murdered in June nineteen eighty nine. Some 468 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,359 people have commented on our social media pages they thought 469 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,799 that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, who was married and had 470 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:49,640 two kids. But remember they're hours away and he's probably 471 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,559 living on his boat in the Hampton, Gloucester area. So 472 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,720 what's being lost is I think he's an average looking 473 00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:00,559 guy with a neatly trimmed beard. Some people have commented 474 00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:05,720 they regarded him as handsome. He's five foot five inches tall. 475 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,920 He is way outside the norm. He is very short, 476 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,400 he's very muscular. I was saying to Kristen a kind 477 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,400 of picture Popeye, the sailor man. He's apparently he was 478 00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:20,839 really built. He's very buff. I mean, he works on 479 00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:24,559 the water, he hauls oysters. He had a tree business. 480 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:29,519 Apparently he's incredibly comfortable climbing trees and cutting limbs. And 481 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,799 he's a physically strong guy with a very strong upper body. 482 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,960 But he's five foot five inches tall. This guy should 483 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,680 stand out. He should stand out I think in a crowd, 484 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,480 perhaps not with his head above the rest of the crowd. 485 00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:50,279 But oh, I'm sorry. I'm not feeling terribly charitable to it, 486 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:51,279 and you. 487 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 6: Don't have to, It's totally fine. 488 00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 3: But did you see this man? Do you remember a short, 489 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,759 muscular man with a neatly trimmed beard in the Zodiac 490 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:04,319 Club or the Ivory Horse. We are fairly certain that's 491 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,720 where he met miss Howell. She was newly divorced or 492 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:11,640 headed in that direction, and she's probably out ready to 493 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,039 socialize and spend time with people. And this bar has 494 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:18,279 a reputation for being a pickup joint, a singles bar. 495 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,039 I know, for our younger listeners, they're not going to 496 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,519 know what the heck we're talking about, But. 497 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: It was a phenomenon. 498 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 6: I would say too, if you're familiar with any other 499 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,480 bars along that stretch of Mercury Boulevard, or any bars 500 00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:35,279 around the various marinas where he would have been docking 501 00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:38,079 his boat. We know that he docked at Gloucester, we 502 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,519 know he docked at Hampton, and we know he docked 503 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:44,319 at Middlesex. If you know of bars and restaurants around there, 504 00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,319 if you frequented those bars and restaurants and you saw 505 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,559 this guy or hung out with this guy, or bought 506 00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:51,359 a beer for this guy, or he bought a beer 507 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,000 for you, please make sure that you call in that information. 508 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,519 It is super important that the FBI and the VSP 509 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,759 be able to establish a timeline of this guy getting 510 00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:04,720 off of the boat and socializing in and around the area. 511 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,799 We have to have that information. It is very important. 512 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,359 Speaker 5: So please, we do urge you to take a very 513 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,279 good look at those various photos that are provided by 514 00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:17,559 the Virginia State Police and the FBI. You get photos 515 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,880 of him from nineteen eighty eight, nineteen ninety four, nineteen 516 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,079 ninety nine, two thousand and four, and two thousand and nine. Unfortunately, 517 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:28,279 there is nothing of him beyond two thousand and nine. 518 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200 He is a distinctive looking guy, and at least in 519 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,799 the first couple photos. Yeah, you could argue that he 520 00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,160 looks handsome, but definitely please do take a look at that. 521 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,119 We have posted this all over our social media pages 522 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,200 and we do encourage you to share on yours as well, 523 00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:46,480 especially if you have friends in and around this area, 524 00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,880 the Rappahannock area in northern Neck, any place in the 525 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,960 Tidewater region. Please share this information. It is vitally important 526 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,079 that we get it out to everyone. 527 00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: And the FBI and the Virginia State Police described him 528 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,640 as trangent. So he he lived and I put air 529 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,759 quotes around that up in Lively, Virginia and the Lancaster 530 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,960 County area, but he apparently spent weeks, if not months, 531 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:15,039 down in the Tidewater area with docking at Gloucester, Hampton 532 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,599 and other locations. Was certainly taking a look at the 533 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,319 oystering season and when he might have been pulling oysters 534 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:23,519 and selling oysters. 535 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: I know that he was. 536 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 3: Known for illegally obtaining crabs and oysters, and he was 537 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,000 also known for breaking the rules as a hunter. He 538 00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:38,279 was an avid hunter and outdoorsman. So I'm not locked 539 00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:41,759 into the idea that he would only be fishing or 540 00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:44,960 hunting during the times that were legal. But I think 541 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,640 in terms of selling to restaurants or grocery stores or 542 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,640 even private individuals, I think he'd probably be pushing his 543 00:30:52,759 --> 00:30:56,119 luck to be doing that openly at times where it 544 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,799 was not seasoned and therefore illegal to sell those items. 545 00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,920 This puts him in the Tidewater area, going up and 546 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,200 down the York and James Rivers and pulling up sleeping 547 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,960 on the boat. This boat was a thirty two foot 548 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,839 wooden boat, the Denny Wade, painted white, also quite distinctive, 549 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:18,599 and again will include pictures in the show notes and 550 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,319 in our social media pages. You don't want to get 551 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:24,319 locked into thinking he's up on the Northern Neck and 552 00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:28,359 he's not there. No, he's right there in the Tidewater area, 553 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,680 raping and killing women and couples. I think we all 554 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,920 have to broaden our thinking. We have an identified suspect. 555 00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:39,400 I know it's not a very satisfying result to have 556 00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:43,200 this person be named when he died in twenty seventeen 557 00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:47,400 at age sixty three. I know we're all very frustrated 558 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:50,440 that a suspect like this couldn't have been named and 559 00:31:50,839 --> 00:31:54,359 brought before the halls of justice sooner than this. It's 560 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,279 not necessarily the outcome that we all wanted. Understand, from 561 00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:01,720 my perspective as the brother of a murder victim. We're 562 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,680 looking for answers. We've been waiting for answers for as 563 00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:08,559 long as thirty seven years, and Colonial Parkway murders are 564 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,680 thirty three to thirty seven years ago. Now we knew 565 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,880 that there was a very good chance that this suspect 566 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,160 and perhaps other suspects, might be dead by now, we're 567 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,119 still looking for answers. I know that when I spoke 568 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,119 with Jeanette Edward Santiago, who's Robin's sister who's been amazing 569 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,160 in this case. She mentioned her mom, Bonnie Edwards, who's 570 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240 also just a lovely person and has done a tremendous 571 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,759 amount of work in this case. And the fact that 572 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,799 Jeannette said to me, we wanted to get this news 573 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,599 while my mom was still with us. Thankfully, Bonnie's still here. 574 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,880 More than half the parents, as you've heard me mentioned before, 575 00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:50,599 are gone. Now think about that sixteen moms and dads, 576 00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:55,359 at least nine the last time I counted are gone now. Thankfully, 577 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,240 Judy Noblin is still with us and doing great. She 578 00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,720 probably hit me over the head because she's actually quite young. 579 00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:07,039 David's brother, Michael is a young and vibrant man and 580 00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:09,640 a fantastic guy, and he's done a tremendous amount of 581 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,079 work on this case. All of us understand that we 582 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,480 may be looking at an empty chair in terms of 583 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,119 identifying an offender here, waiting for answers. 584 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: As for as long. 585 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,119 Speaker 3: As people in this case have we're still looking for 586 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,960 those answers. It's incredibly important and meaningful to the families 587 00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,000 that we help solve all of the Colonial Parkway murders, and. 588 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,119 Speaker 5: The best way that you can do that is to 589 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,119 please submit tips to the FBI and the VSP. We 590 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,720 also want to encourage anyone who has ever reached out 591 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:47,519 to us about strange encounters on the Colonial Parkway. If 592 00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:51,119 you had an encounter on the Colonial Parkway either with 593 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,880 that very distinctive blue Dodge Fargo truck, please do reach 594 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,440 back out to the FBI or the VSP and re 595 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,720 report that incident so that they can continue to go 596 00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:06,000 back and try to establish a timeline on this guy. 597 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,000 Maybe he was the person who encountered you on the parkway. 598 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,599 Maybe not, but it is important that they have all 599 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,440 of this information so that they can look at this anew. 600 00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:19,920 So please, if you have any information whatsoever with regard 601 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,039 to Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, his truck or his watercraft, 602 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:28,760 call the FBI at one eight hundred call FBI, go 603 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,440 online to submit a tip at tips dot FBI dot gov, 604 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,039 or email questions at VSP dot Virginia dot gov to 605 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,239 reach the Virginia State Police that is going to do it. 606 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,320 For this episode of Mindover Murder, thank you so much 607 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,400 for listening. We'll see you next time. 608 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:58,519 Speaker 1: Mindover Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another 609 00:34:58,599 --> 00:34:59,599 Dog Productions. 610 00:35:00,159 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 611 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 612 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 613 00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 614 00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 3: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 615 00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:20,159 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 616 00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:22,039 Murders on Facebook. 617 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 618 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,480 Bill Thomas five six. 619 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,079 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder