Speaker 1: Super League three sixties Back Lee and John a here,
Speaker 1: but the sport is not the same without John KEIRR.
Speaker 1: He loved the game and it shone through as a man,
Speaker 1: as a coach and in the commentary Box two he
Speaker 1: coached England, France, or LEFC and Wales. But the cup
Speaker 1: win for Sheffield is the pick of all the tales.
Speaker 1: So many players he gave their first starts, a coach
Speaker 1: and a life that touched many hearts. Rest in peace,
Speaker 1: John keir who tragically passed away suddenly on the thirty
Speaker 1: first of May. Welcome to the twenty fourth episode of
Speaker 1: Super League three sixty, a podcast primarily about the top
Speaker 1: tier of British rugby league, but we do go in
Speaker 1: some different directions sometimes. My name is Lee Addison and.
Speaker 2: My name is John Davidson.
Speaker 1: I'm a coach in Australia, johnn journo in the UK.
Speaker 1: But please read the description or listen to all pods
Speaker 1: because this was once a very long introduction on this podcast.
Speaker 1: This podcast been aired platforms including the Ashes, Rugby League,
Speaker 1: Rugby League Coach podcast platforms, Rugby League Coach YouTube as well,
Speaker 1: and if you subscribe to those you won't miss a thing.
Speaker 1: But thanks to our friends at Rugby League dot Com
Speaker 1: that I've been covering this for us, I've got the
Speaker 1: table here ready to talk about John. But I think
Speaker 1: just because I've started with John Kere Rugby League tweet
Speaker 1: of the week, Matt Newsom, the BBC commentator, said that
Speaker 1: was hard, cried beforehand, cried at halftime, the montages were beautiful,
Speaker 1: the game did JK justice take care all? Can you
Speaker 1: shed some light on this was overnight here in Australia.
Speaker 1: What was Matt talking about there?
Speaker 2: John? I was talking about the Wakefield WHOLEKR game that
Speaker 2: the BBC had on TV that Matt was commentating. Obviously,
Speaker 2: John I think would have been part of that country team. Yep.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that was a lovely true broute
Speaker 2: for himself at the start. Just yeah, really sad news.
Speaker 2: I think got a few text messages Monday morning about
Speaker 2: it and then tried to chase up if it was
Speaker 2: true or not. But you know the people who sent
Speaker 2: me those messages, you know, you don't send messages when
Speaker 2: something right this happens to you. You see sometimes on
Speaker 2: social media people claiming people have died on haven't, which
Speaker 2: I don't know why anyone would ever do that. It's
Speaker 2: just a scummy thing to do. But yeah, it turned
Speaker 2: out to be true. It just really really sad news,
Speaker 2: shocking news. The fact that he was comminating at Wembley
Speaker 2: and you know people around the UK and then around
Speaker 2: the world would have heard his voice and then you know,
Speaker 2: less than twenty four hours he'd had a heart attack
Speaker 2: on the way home. And just a lovely, lovely guy
Speaker 2: and had such a fantastic and positive impact on the
Speaker 2: sport as so many times on so many people. You know,
Speaker 2: I think he's easily one of the best people involved
Speaker 2: in the game in the UK and he'll he'll be long,
Speaker 2: long remembered.
Speaker 1: There can't be many coaches who've coached England, Wales and
Speaker 1: France exactly. There can't be many coaches that have coached Bradford.
Speaker 1: Hull left c Sheffield Wakefield badly witness and he.
Speaker 2: Was assistant coach at cass and the Mariley and I
Speaker 2: believe he was an assistant.
Speaker 1: A Wigan for a Wigan under Stuart Raper when I
Speaker 1: was there. That's how I know John kre and developed
Speaker 1: a good friendship with him and very infectious personality. Great
Speaker 1: fella always had a smile on his face when he
Speaker 1: greeted you. He was he was a tough Onmbray too,
Speaker 1: So he wasn't, you know, not somebody who just smiled
Speaker 1: at everything and laughed everything and off. But he was
Speaker 1: a he was a very very fair person, very fair
Speaker 1: minded person. And I do remember his wife Dawn as well,
Speaker 1: so you know, condolences to her and the rest of
Speaker 1: the family. It's I think the shocking thing is that
Speaker 1: the nation heard him on the TV the day before.
Speaker 1: I think the shocking thing is I think there's a
Speaker 1: picture that was taken on Challenge Cup final day, which
Speaker 1: I assume would have been the last ever picture of him.
Speaker 1: I also consume quite often the Total Rugby League podcast
Speaker 1: on YouTube, and he's been a guest on there quite regularly,
Speaker 1: and look well quite frankly, I know he's had a
Speaker 1: few health issues, but tell me a seventy one year
Speaker 1: old who doesn't or hasn't. So just a real big shock, John,
Speaker 1: real big shock. And I don't want to be disrespectful
Speaker 1: to John, but you know, we'll move on with the
Speaker 1: podcast because we missed. We missed a week last week,
Speaker 1: so we've got quite a lot to catch up on.
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure John would be more than happy
Speaker 1: for us to keep on, keep on keeping on, So yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll just we'll move on to the Super League Ladder
Speaker 1: and John kears old team Wakefield are in third, but
Speaker 1: Leed's Rhino's the top. They've played thirteen and twenty points.
Speaker 1: Warrington have only played twelve and are in second on
Speaker 1: twenty points. As we record this podcast, Wakefield, like I said,
Speaker 1: on third with eighteen. Saint Helen's are fourth on eighteen
Speaker 1: two teams on sixteen. Hull k are and Wigan Wigan
Speaker 1: sitting sixth spot. Hoo Ky are in fifth. Lee Leopards
Speaker 1: are on fourteen points. They've played thirteen. Catalans Dragons are
Speaker 1: in eighth and they're on twelve. Bradford Bulls and cast
Speaker 1: Tigers are both on ten points and sit on the
Speaker 1: ladder after thirteen games. In that order, we'll lef C
Speaker 1: they've played thirteen games and they're on eight points to
Speaker 1: lose same exactly the same. They sit in twelfth. We'll
Speaker 1: left seeing eleventh York Nights our second last. They've played
Speaker 1: thirteen have six points on Huddersfield Giants propping up the
Speaker 1: table on four points after playing thirteen thoughts on that ladder, John,
Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's not moving that much really now.
Speaker 1: It seems like we have two two clear sections, those
Speaker 1: who are pushing for the six and those who've got
Speaker 1: no chance.
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, yeah, I think I think probably the main
Speaker 2: movement in recent saying the last months in Hellnes have
Speaker 2: dropped down a bit and Lee are really pushing up
Speaker 2: with a few wins, and obviously so a Wigan. You know,
Speaker 2: they've really turned a corner on the last month. Wakefield
Speaker 2: have been doing well for a while. Apart from that,
Speaker 2: I can't really there's this fair bit of consistency. Obviously Harrsfield,
Speaker 2: Hall of Sea losing regularly. Why Intend have been pretty
Speaker 2: consistent at the top of the table all season, you know,
Speaker 2: good a good win for for to loose. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't I don't see a huge amount of change
Speaker 2: in say the bottom six or so. There'll be some fluctuations,
Speaker 2: but I think I think I said this in the
Speaker 2: last podcast, I don't see the sixth changing much except
Speaker 2: for maybe Lee are the real big chances for pushing in.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I can't see a huge amount of changing.
Speaker 2: I can't see someone coming from sixth and finishing top.
Speaker 2: Although I'll throw a caveat I think weigan obviously what
Speaker 2: they've shown. You know, they've they've really turned the corner
Speaker 2: and they're playing with so much desire and one at
Speaker 2: the moment. So I don't think you can really I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think they'll necessarily finish top, but I think
Speaker 2: it's it's certainly possible if they considered They've got so
Speaker 2: many games to make up and teams like Leads that
Speaker 2: have to lose a lot. But I think they can
Speaker 2: definitely finish a lot higher than they currently are with
Speaker 2: and if they if they keep up what they're doing.
Speaker 1: John his job and John's tweet of the week. It
Speaker 1: was a tweet that you did about Saint Helens. You
Speaker 1: said it was their third loss from their past four games,
Speaker 1: and then you linked an article and there's a few
Speaker 1: there's a few stories around Tristan Sailor staying, Matty Lee's
Speaker 1: going ab Saints wrote towards and said what to do
Speaker 1: with Sailor Wellsby Whitby Hastings to get Saints attack clicking.
Speaker 1: So John time to unleash on Saint Helen's.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not I was an our ladies obviously, I
Speaker 2: wrote an asked this piece about them. On Thursday night,
Speaker 2: I was at the game and hey Lee, I think,
Speaker 2: speaking to a few people who followed the club closer,
Speaker 2: I think it was quite a surprise that Tristan Sattle
Speaker 2: has been resigned. Now. It's not an attack on Tristans.
Speaker 2: I think he's a fabulous attacking player, and I would imagine,
Speaker 2: particularly these Q Cup days, someone you've seen a fair
Speaker 2: bit oly. But I think you know defensively, he's not
Speaker 2: a great defender, and I don't think with Wellsby in
Speaker 2: that side, I don't think that dynamic works. They seem
Speaker 2: to have moved Jack around. They seem to have tried
Speaker 2: to accommodate both them and Saylor isn't a winger. He's
Speaker 2: not a six. He's a fullback, that soundy position. He
Speaker 2: can play well wells Wellsby has got a bit more versatility,
Speaker 2: but I think his best position is fullback. So I'm
Speaker 2: quite surprised that they re signed him. There's a few
Speaker 2: other variables there with the spine. Jack and Hastings is
Speaker 2: off contract. I know Leeds are interested, and Johnny Lomax
Speaker 2: is off contract as well. Now there's speculation that he'll retire. Obviously,
Speaker 2: he's had a very long career, a fantastic career, Johnny,
Speaker 2: and he'll go down as one of Sinahalan's best ever players.
Speaker 2: But there's a few variables there. And then you've got
Speaker 2: George Whitby, who I think did really well on Thursday,
Speaker 2: young half back, but he's not had a lot of games.
Speaker 2: So there's a bit of flux with their roster, not
Speaker 2: just in the spine but in other areas as well.
Speaker 2: As said Maddy Leed's going to PG Chiefs in what
Speaker 2: eighteen months, and you add the fact that they lost
Speaker 2: Morgan Ole to the Dolphins this year, it's a bit
Speaker 2: of a rebuild at Saint Helens. You know, I think
Speaker 2: there's you know, many many Pete made that job about identity,
Speaker 2: but I think there is actually I think there's a
Speaker 2: bit of truth to those words. So yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: really interesting time at Saint Helens. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't think they'd have a good year this year
Speaker 2: before a ball had been kicked, and they've been top
Speaker 2: for a long period and that actually surprised me. But
Speaker 2: I think they will fall down the pack. I think
Speaker 2: they'll make the six, but I don't think they'll be
Speaker 2: there at Old Trafford and I may be wrong, may
Speaker 2: have it in my face yes again, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: think there's there's some bigger issues there about how they
Speaker 2: how their their squad looks going forward. And obviously there's
Speaker 2: been off field change, hasn't it with the CEO going
Speaker 2: and other things. So yeah, it's a bit of a
Speaker 2: flux there at Saint Helens.
Speaker 1: I do find it interesting that Saint Helens and Leeds
Speaker 1: are both potentially in a rebuilding phase. Leads. It almost
Speaker 1: appears to have come to them all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: Saint Helens, they've possibly been in this position for a
Speaker 1: year or two now. I can't help but think it's
Speaker 1: because of the addition of these extra teams on both
Speaker 1: sides of the world. And I think teams like Saint
Speaker 1: Helens and Leeds would would be able to secure players
Speaker 1: for the longer term if there weren't more options. Secondly,
Speaker 1: they would get more of the low hanging fruit in
Speaker 1: terms of players that they can be first option to
Speaker 1: sign when, particularly when players are coming over from Australia.
Speaker 1: And I think now there's a few more clubs trying
Speaker 1: to beat them to the punch to sign players. I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Leeds for example, wouldn't have minded the Clinel
Speaker 1: captain for example.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's that's an
Speaker 2: interesting point. I don't I think for Saint Helens, I
Speaker 2: think it's you know, I had that four years whether
Speaker 2: or buy father the best team in the land, what
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen to twenty two, and I think they're still
Speaker 2: sort of trying to work out, you know, how to
Speaker 2: rebuild from those players going and you know how to
Speaker 2: move that along, which is never it's never easy. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you are right. I mean, I mean Cam mc kinness,
Speaker 2: if I were Sat Helen's I don't think probably leads
Speaker 2: into thirtem but I think he would have been a
Speaker 2: fantastic player for two years. But Leeds, I don't think
Speaker 2: Leeds are in a rebuild right now. But I think
Speaker 2: next year, when they've got Bradie Croft going, Cameron Smith going,
Speaker 2: Alenski going Newman going, James McDonald going, Ryan Hall, surely
Speaker 2: you'd think would retire, you know. I think this year
Speaker 2: is Leeds year, you know, in terms of winning Super League.
Speaker 2: I think, but I'm sure we're going to get onto
Speaker 2: this anyway. Brad Arthur staying is definitely good news for me.
Speaker 1: What we we'll talk about it now. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: it now. I've got that ability to be flexible. John.
Speaker 1: So Brad, Brad, Brad Arthur's staying right, and I think
Speaker 1: he is. I think I'm pretty convinced that if he
Speaker 1: would was to get the pn G job or the
Speaker 1: Perth job, he wouldn't be there. So there's every chance
Speaker 1: that he's run out of jobs. Every chance he was
Speaker 1: in the.
Speaker 2: Manly job.
Speaker 3: Soft with anyone left with St Georgie Laar, wasn't it,
Speaker 3: and presumably I mean Dane Young's as he picked up
Speaker 3: one win or two.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I think clearly the St George
Speaker 2: of the wire job presumably he wasn't. He wasn't going
Speaker 2: to get it, and he decided, you know, better have
Speaker 2: one job in the UK than the job, which makes
Speaker 2: perfect sense.
Speaker 1: But I think Brad Arthur is certainly going to help
Speaker 1: with signing right in terms of players will want to
Speaker 1: play under him. So I think that's a real positive
Speaker 1: leads quite frankly, and all power to them. Look, we've
Speaker 1: mentioned two of the big hitters. They're Saint Helen's and
Speaker 1: Leeds and two of the other big hitters are Wigan
Speaker 1: and who k Are and they met in the Challenge
Speaker 1: Cup final because we had a week off last week
Speaker 1: much needed in your case because you were on a
Speaker 1: stag do essentially the what got me about the Challenge
Speaker 1: Cup Final aside from the fact that it was John
Speaker 1: Key's last commentary and whatnot, So I think some of
Speaker 1: this got lost. But let's talk about the game. How
Speaker 1: much do we read into the fact that it was
Speaker 1: such a one sided score line. I know it was
Speaker 1: close at halftime and you yourself said prior to the
Speaker 1: Cup final words to the effect of if Willie Peters
Speaker 1: manages to coach ok Are to this final victory, then
Speaker 1: we can look at his legacy in a different way.
Speaker 1: But the exact top as it happened, and with the
Speaker 1: exception of the World Club Challenge, where I think we
Speaker 1: all know that if Brisbane had five more minutes, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have it wouldn't have been whole k has win
Speaker 1: big game in Las Vegas that got hammered, and then
Speaker 1: World Club Challenge is great Tome and then this big
Speaker 1: game they've been hammered. Are we seeing holes in who
Speaker 1: k Are Yeah, did you watch this game in Spain?
Speaker 2: I watched about thirty five or forty minutes. Unfortunately, I
Speaker 2: can watch the whole game and it's entirety. But I
Speaker 2: pushed back a little bit on that in terms of
Speaker 2: who care, like in terms of big games, because I
Speaker 2: think they've shown grandfather last year.
Speaker 1: This year, I'm talking about this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this year. Look, I think they've definitely they've definitely
Speaker 2: come back to the pack a bit. I think we
Speaker 2: would talking about rosters and age. I think the issue
Speaker 2: for Whole k are and they did fabulously well last year.
Speaker 2: I wrote a piece about this is the fact that
Speaker 2: they literally have no local juniors and you take Mikey
Speaker 2: Lewis out of that team, none of those players have
Speaker 2: come through Whole k Our system. And then you've only got,
Speaker 2: off the top of my head Linton and Hadley who
Speaker 2: came from Hole f C. But they are from Hull.
Speaker 2: Now that's basically an important team of other English players
Speaker 2: and foreigners. So it's a kind of a moneyball approach
Speaker 2: and it's very hard to do that and sustain success.
Speaker 2: Like if you look at all the teams that have
Speaker 2: dominated Super League over the years, weigand Bradford, Leeds, Saint Helens,
Speaker 2: they've all had a core of local juniors. You know
Speaker 2: Leeds it was Sinfield and Maguire and Burrow and JJB.
Speaker 2: And it's Saint Helens it was you know Roby and
Speaker 2: Makinson and those kind of players, and a Wigan. They've
Speaker 2: had a cavalcade and we're going to doing it now,
Speaker 2: aren't they. Like we just saw in Paris got you
Speaker 2: know Pharamund and Marsden and Equasy. So I think that's
Speaker 2: in a salary cap system, you need to have those
Speaker 2: local dutis coming through because you can pay them a
Speaker 2: lot less than you pay your your UNDRL imports or
Speaker 2: your your your older players. So that, for me, I
Speaker 2: think is the issue. There's a few older players at
Speaker 2: whole k Are and they you know, there's not a
Speaker 2: great lot of depth outside their first you know, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, so Willie Peters is going and I think
Speaker 2: Old Kay can can rebound and still you have a
Speaker 2: shot at Old Trafford this year. But you add under
Speaker 2: the lost to Wakefield and you know, full credit to
Speaker 2: the Wakefield. I thought that was a hell of a
Speaker 2: performance and there was some very bad refereeing decisions in
Speaker 2: that game. But yeah, I think have definitely dropped down
Speaker 2: a perch on the on.
Speaker 1: The ladder, don't. I don't think they've replaced Jared Hargraves.
Speaker 1: I mean the games I watched last year and well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but Hard Greaves was head and shoulders above any forward
Speaker 1: on the field in any game I saw. I know
Speaker 1: it was his last season. Yeah, I know mclaurum has
Speaker 1: not been replaced, but I'm genuinely talking about the importance
Speaker 1: of a front rower to a team, and because they've
Speaker 1: not replaced him, they're just lacking that bit of bite
Speaker 1: in midfield that they used to have, in that bit
Speaker 1: of starch, but also the experience of him and mclaorum
Speaker 1: in terms of Okay, boys, we're twelve zero down in
Speaker 1: this game, don't panic, you know, these are the things
Speaker 1: we need to focus on.
Speaker 2: That. Yeah, I think that's the key bit. It's not
Speaker 2: necessarily even what they did on the field. It's in training,
Speaker 2: it's in the dressing rooms. It's that inspirational, tough figure
Speaker 2: who's had that experience and who knows how to win.
Speaker 2: And I think those are the kind of players you
Speaker 2: know when you're in the in the trenches you look
Speaker 2: to and they inspire you and lead. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably one of the things going forward that they'll need,
Speaker 2: and there will be some there's obviously some some turnover there,
Speaker 2: but the big one is the head coach. You know,
Speaker 2: what what do they do there? And I know it
Speaker 2: was it came out in Australia a couple of days
Speaker 2: ago about Ben Gardner and I think you had the
Speaker 2: exclusive about three weeks ago on this podcast. You're not
Speaker 2: a journo, but we'll give we'll give reps to mister
Speaker 2: Addison about Ben Gardner. But yeah, that's a massive it's
Speaker 2: a massive decision because well, you could say they've got
Speaker 2: the building blocks there for continued success with with Morgue
Speaker 2: and Broadband and Litton and Mikey Lewis that have got
Speaker 2: a lot of older players there, whether it be Jesse,
Speaker 2: Sue Burgess, Gildart Hiccu, you know, Whipbread, Rhys Martin's retiring.
Speaker 2: You know, they I do need some some recruits, so yeah,
Speaker 2: it'd be an interesting time for them whether they can
Speaker 2: maintain you know, they've been the best or one of
Speaker 2: the two best teams for the last three years. But
Speaker 2: It's very hard to maintain that position, isn't it unless
Speaker 2: you do have that academy as well. That's throwing out,
Speaker 2: you know, the next great play because we're just doing that,
Speaker 2: aren't they? They the academy. I mean it's it's kind
Speaker 2: of them in Penrith. They are the Penrith of England.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean Wigan's Academy has been going
Speaker 1: for years, but it's had, you know, like anything else,
Speaker 1: it's sometimes you can take the eye off the ball
Speaker 1: a little bit and it goes from being the ten
Speaker 1: out of ten academy to a seven out of ten academy. Right,
Speaker 1: But I think Wigans Academy right now is at the
Speaker 1: higher end of its performance levels. So I think I
Speaker 1: think that's a that's a real that's a real, big,
Speaker 1: big point to make too. Look, we're not on the
Speaker 1: match report bit of the podcast, but because you've mentioned,
Speaker 1: because we've mentioned who k Are in depth, because I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Wigan two. But what we'll do
Speaker 1: while we're here on who k Are I'll just mention
Speaker 1: that they've played Wakefield this weekend Wakefield twenty six ok
Speaker 1: Are twenty four in a close one tries from Pratt,
Speaker 1: Scott Rourke Stoughton Lino for Wakefield. Lino kicked three goals
Speaker 1: for Who k Are Lewis whitbred luckily and May scored
Speaker 1: the tries. Lewis kicked two and Martin scored two goals
Speaker 1: as well. The big news coming out of this, though,
Speaker 1: is Darryl Powell has been quite negative about the Captain's Challenge,
Speaker 1: so he said the Captain's Challenges must be abolished for
Speaker 1: the good of rugby league. Basically so the game lasted
Speaker 1: two hours and a lot of that was down to
Speaker 1: video referee Lee and rush to his time over certain
Speaker 1: things and quote quoting Daryl Powell, here, we've got to
Speaker 1: change it quick for the beauty of the sport, because
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful sport and what we're doing at the
Speaker 1: moment is taking a little bit away from that. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be damaging the sport by talking about
Speaker 1: it in a negative way, but I think somebody has
Speaker 1: to make a decision that we change it. And then
Speaker 1: asked whether he thought the idea of the Captain's Challenge
Speaker 1: was soundber its implementation needed some adjustment, He said, nope,
Speaker 1: get rid of it to waste the time and also,
Speaker 1: Fletcher Ender asked us on X is the captain's challenge
Speaker 1: being used to relieve pressure knowing it takes an eternity
Speaker 1: to make a decision. Fletcher, Yes, absolutely. I mean some
Speaker 1: teams just take it to us for a breather, so
Speaker 1: honestly are they doing the NRL anyway? What your thoughts
Speaker 1: on Darryl Powell's comments after that game?
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it is. It is adding to
Speaker 2: such a long a long period and I think I
Speaker 2: think I've said this before. We should have a timer on.
Speaker 2: You know how long the video rev takes and I
Speaker 2: think the whole video refereeing the game the Wakefield game yesterday.
Speaker 2: I think it was the Wakefield game. You know they
Speaker 2: were looking at offside from a kick, but they didn't
Speaker 2: just look and everything else was fine on first viewing.
Speaker 2: You know, he got the ball down blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: but they went back and checked about four or five
Speaker 2: other things and it's like no, no, no, the ref
Speaker 2: on field has said check the onside. If you said
Speaker 2: check the on side and check the granning and then
Speaker 2: check those two things, but you don't need to check.
Speaker 2: You know, three plays before, was the play the ball right?
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's overkilled by a ridiculous thing. And
Speaker 2: I you know, I've got my parents staying with me,
Speaker 2: and obviously I watch they don't watch Super legue. Back
Speaker 2: in Australia, they watched the NROL and they were they
Speaker 2: were stunned how slow and how long it took. And
Speaker 2: it's just the casual viewer, and you know, being in
Speaker 2: I was at a championship game couple of weeks ago
Speaker 2: and it was kind of quite refreshing how quick and
Speaker 2: smooth things were. And obviously the referee decision, not necessarily
Speaker 2: all the decisions were right, but you just moved on,
Speaker 2: didn't you. So they need to look at the video referee.
Speaker 2: They need to look at the captain's challenge. I like
Speaker 2: the captain challenge in theory, but it is taking far
Speaker 2: too long in Super League, and the same as the
Speaker 2: video referee, and they just they seem petrified to get
Speaker 2: a decision wrong, so they'll take five minutes to review it,
Speaker 2: even though they've got less camera angles than they're have
Speaker 2: in the bunker. They just need to, I think, have
Speaker 2: a timer. Look, you've got this much amount of time
Speaker 2: to make a decision. Let's get to a decision quickly.
Speaker 2: If it's wrong, it's wrong. Look, not every decision is
Speaker 2: going to be right anyway, Even with all the time
Speaker 2: in the world and a million cameras, you're not going
Speaker 2: to get every decision right. Aly, you know, there was
Speaker 2: the Cowboys one on Saturday morning. I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: we saw where the ball was knocked out by the
Speaker 2: Dolphins players as he went over the line and they
Speaker 2: decided to give it a try. I thought that was
Speaker 2: personally a joke. But that's that's you know, Look, we
Speaker 2: have different opinions, aren't we. That's that's the beauty of life.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we do for the product, we do need
Speaker 2: to speed things up and we do need to try
Speaker 2: and not add more stoppages. In my opinion, I agree
Speaker 2: with with that on that.
Speaker 1: So we've spoken about ok Are in the context of
Speaker 1: the Challenge Cup final and then that brought us to Wakefield,
Speaker 1: who they played this week. So it's only right now
Speaker 1: we talk about Wigan and I think what's interesting about
Speaker 1: Wigan season is they have seemingly used the Cup to
Speaker 1: reignite their season because their form six weeks ago wasn't
Speaker 1: crashed hot and now you know a few weeks is
Speaker 1: a long time in rugby league, isn't it. Wigan racking
Speaker 1: up some big scores. They've got some of their troops back.
Speaker 1: Bever and French popped up for the for the Cup
Speaker 1: final as well. They played Catalans this weekend. Catalan sixteen
Speaker 1: tries from far tarpe Lepovich, Sarte, goals from Sexton who
Speaker 1: kicked two, Wigan forty tries from Field and Sember Marsden,
Speaker 1: Farrem and Warder lecles they Kieran and six goals from Kieran.
Speaker 1: It was played in Paris and I think that was
Speaker 1: a potential banana skin for Wigan after winning the Cup.
Speaker 1: They played it at the home of rugby union outfit
Speaker 1: start from Say to mark the thirtieth anniversary of Super
Speaker 1: League as well as the twentieth anniversary of Catalan's debut
Speaker 1: in the league. And I assume Catalans would have fancied
Speaker 1: their chances in this game. New coach, he'd have had
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks with his team and a big,
Speaker 1: a big poignancy to that fixture and then we're going
Speaker 1: to have turned up even with a Challenge Cup final hangover.
Speaker 1: And trust me, I was at Wigan when we want
Speaker 1: a Challenge Cup final. I know what the what their
Speaker 1: celebrations can be like. And they've wiped the floor with
Speaker 1: Catalans as they've gone over there, so we can look
Speaker 1: in the goods again.
Speaker 2: Yeah they are. I mean I even with the Challenge
Speaker 2: Cup and the hangover of that. I think Steve Rest
Speaker 2: Mascot has written a piece for our Patreon about we
Speaker 2: again and young players don't party like they used to
Speaker 2: back in shall we Say Our Day? And many Pete
Speaker 2: has said that impresses before, but I still fancied again.
Speaker 2: I mean Catalans, I've got a number of problems. They've
Speaker 2: not played well very often this year, and even with
Speaker 2: all the emotion of Paris and you know all that,
Speaker 2: I just I just backed we're going. I didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: see the score line. I think it would have been
Speaker 2: a bit closer, but yeah, we can have. I think,
Speaker 2: as you said, use the cup. I think they started
Speaker 2: something like they won the first five, didn't they? And
Speaker 2: then they dropped a few surprising games. I lost the
Speaker 2: Cardi field, they lost to cast. A lot of people
Speaker 2: were criticizing them, and they've just yeah, the massively turned
Speaker 2: the corner. And I think they usually have a they
Speaker 2: have a bit of a lull later in the season,
Speaker 2: but they've managed to really just turbo charge themselves and
Speaker 2: they were they were awesome in Paris. I mean George Marsden,
Speaker 2: I think it's his is his third or fourth game.
Speaker 2: I mean, to play with that kind of confidence. The
Speaker 2: skill he reminds me, I mean, completely different sort of
Speaker 2: player and he doesn't have that left foot step, but
Speaker 2: it reminds me of like Brad Fittler back you know
Speaker 2: when he burst he was a schoolboy playing for Penrith,
Speaker 2: and then Jack Farraman just you know, I remember when
Speaker 2: he came in two years ago. I thought, this kid's,
Speaker 2: you know, so much skill, he's going to be a star.
Speaker 2: And they've just got the half back partnership for the
Speaker 2: next ten to fifteen years already there before bevn friend
Speaker 2: Jenaro Smith go. So I think if you're a Wigan fan,
Speaker 2: you're sitting pretty at the moment because that production line
Speaker 2: is looks so good. I mean, Junior December has gone
Speaker 2: to a new level. Zach Eckersley I think performed that
Speaker 2: he's on the ability that he can play so many positions.
Speaker 2: He should be in the world. Scott for me World
Speaker 2: Cup squad for me because he's so versatile and I
Speaker 2: just look a very happy bunch. We're a very connected,
Speaker 2: you know, really really motivated and yeah, just impressive performance
Speaker 2: again at Wembley as well as in Paris.
Speaker 1: Another one of the big hitting teams at the top
Speaker 1: of the table. They've got some changes coming up, Warrington snaids,
Speaker 1: I assume retiring from the game or no.
Speaker 3: No, no, no.
Speaker 2: He's been in talks with I know at least one
Speaker 2: championship club in Oldham, so I.
Speaker 1: Think he won in Oldham. There's there's no one championship.
Speaker 2: One championship club which is Oldham. I would imagine. I
Speaker 2: would imagine he's having conversations with others. I think I
Speaker 2: think he's He's been linked to Hole f C, which
Speaker 2: I think I'll see may be denied, but I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2: Although Warrington told me no decision it had been made yet,
Speaker 2: my understanding is that he won't be resigned by Warrenton.
Speaker 2: He'll be leaving Warrington. Obviously, Warrington have signed Bradie Croft
Speaker 2: and they've got a lot of young halfbacks there they
Speaker 2: want to give opportunities to. But yeah, he'll be going
Speaker 2: and I think you know, I think he's had a
Speaker 2: great career. Marks the debut for Salford at twenty ten
Speaker 2: and I'm sure he could do a job. You know,
Speaker 2: you look at the we talk about the player depth
Speaker 2: in super League. I mean if you're a York or
Speaker 2: a Bradford or to lose, he'd be fantastic pick up
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 1: Toby King as well, he's off, Where's where's he going?
Speaker 1: You left for him only he's.
Speaker 2: Going to London. So obviously we don't know what's happening
Speaker 2: with London next year that they want to come into
Speaker 2: super League. Theyve been pushing for a fifteen team super League.
Speaker 2: I'll speak for you here, Lee when I would say
Speaker 2: that you the same as me, would be against a
Speaker 2: fifteen team super League. Yes, And I think that's all
Speaker 2: you did to say. And you know, anyone who watched
Speaker 2: the hardest field game yesterday, I mean, yeah, Huddersfield they
Speaker 2: need to be basically relegated. I think that's the only
Speaker 2: really word for it. So you could see London coming
Speaker 2: in for them if that's how it works under IMG.
Speaker 2: But yeah, London, I think you know, it's hard for
Speaker 2: them to recruit when you don't know what division you're in,
Speaker 2: but I think Tooby King's a good, solid signing for
Speaker 2: them for next year.
Speaker 1: Warrington twelve or FC four. Smith scored two tries and
Speaker 1: Snaid kicked two goals for them. Did you see any
Speaker 1: of that game, because last or through Baron.
Speaker 2: I was watching the Castleford the League game which was
Speaker 2: on at the same time, but I did switch over
Speaker 2: and caught the end of it, and I did read
Speaker 2: some of the social media and apparently it was one
Speaker 2: of the worst games of all time. It was absolutely dreadful.
Speaker 2: And I saw Sam Burgess's interview on Sky and he
Speaker 2: basically intimated the same thing. I mean, it was pretty
Speaker 2: honors and blunt and it was an absolute bludger of
Speaker 2: a game. I mean, Holly of c We've talked about
Speaker 2: them a fair bit. They had obviously a statement from
Speaker 2: their owners through the week. They're just a club with big,
Speaker 2: big issues. I mean, the whole John carter I don't
Speaker 2: want to go over it again, but the whole John
Speaker 2: carter I thing was was poorly handled and then they
Speaker 2: tried to spin it and they didn't do a very
Speaker 2: good job of that. And I think some of their
Speaker 2: recruitment decisions have obviously they've got a lot of injuries
Speaker 2: as well, but I think they've made poor recruitment as well,
Speaker 2: so that's kind of the chickens are coming home to
Speaker 2: roost there. And I think Warrington they had I think
Speaker 2: you and Irwin pulled out right on the day of
Speaker 2: the game, and I had some spine issues so they
Speaker 2: had to shuffle around. But yeah, it was just a
Speaker 2: very poor game. But if you're Warrington, you're just happy
Speaker 2: you've got the win and you move on to next week.
Speaker 1: Lead Ranalds extend the lead at the top of the
Speaker 1: table beating Saint Helen's twenty four sixteen. Was that Thursday night, John,
Speaker 1: was it or Friday?
Speaker 2: It was Thursday night. Yeah, I was at that game.
Speaker 2: I think when you saw who sat Hans had out
Speaker 2: with suspensions and injuries, you were like our Leeds to
Speaker 2: win this game. It was a bit of strange. Acers
Speaker 2: Helen started really strongly, took the lead, Leeds came back
Speaker 2: in to do it. It was quite entertaining finished, but
Speaker 2: there was a lot of errors, a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 2: It wasn't necessarily the highest quality game, but and Jake
Speaker 2: Connor lost his head numerous times. But again, if your
Speaker 2: leads important win. They showed enough bottle to come back
Speaker 2: and win it at the death and David Klemer with
Speaker 2: that kind of yellow card which was pretty pervot.
Speaker 1: A later on Bradford Bulls thirty York Knights York York
Speaker 1: Nights twenty Riley Dean scored eighteen points on his Bradford
Speaker 1: Bull's debut. Not for Loom. I've got a hat trick
Speaker 1: for York. Did you see any of that game?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another one that was on at the
Speaker 2: same time on Friday night. While I was watching the
Speaker 2: cast game, I went to watch the highlights on Saturday morning.
Speaker 2: They weren't available, which is always good on score. But yeah,
Speaker 2: full credit to Bradford. I think I had a man
Speaker 2: Aniaker's symbined. It came back and went one and so
Speaker 2: good on them for you know, another another win in
Speaker 2: the in this season back in Yeah.
Speaker 1: Castleford fourteen Lee twenty four, a fifth victory and six
Speaker 1: games fully there on the March. It's just seven into
Speaker 1: six might not go or eight into six might not go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the big improvers aren't I thought. I thought Carstlefford
Speaker 2: were very good in this game as well. They've turned
Speaker 2: a bit of a corner late and looks like they're
Speaker 2: going to get excuse me, Tyrol Sloan another Saint Georgia
Speaker 2: Lawara play. Obviously that Ryan Carr would have coached last year.
Speaker 2: He's been lit with them for twenty twenty seven. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there was some interesting decisions from the rest. I think
Speaker 2: Jack Hugh's elbow to the face of one of the
Speaker 2: players didn't get called. That was a bit a bit
Speaker 2: harsh on cast. But yeah, it was a good, good
Speaker 2: entertaining game, very competitive and Leah, they're really pushing up
Speaker 2: that table lee, so watch out. I guess the other thing.
Speaker 1: When you were saying they're really pushing up that table lee,
Speaker 1: did you mean Lee as in el double Lee me
Speaker 1: or Lee as in men as in the Leopards. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. There's no Super League games on Sunday? Is there? Now?
Speaker 2: There's another another Sunday where there's been quite a few
Speaker 2: I think of late Look yesterday with the Saturday it
Speaker 2: worked quite well, but the problem is they weren't so
Speaker 2: I think it was three o'clock. I watched every game.
Speaker 2: It was three o'clock huvers Field to lose Atjesbrey and
Speaker 2: I've not seen a crowd finger a figure sorry announced,
Speaker 2: but it'd have to be one of the lowest Super
Speaker 2: League crowds for quite a while. I think it didn't
Speaker 2: look like there was a lot of people at the
Speaker 2: Flair Stadium. And then the Wakefield game, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: exactly when it kicked off of it was twenty pas
Speaker 2: four or whatever, but you kind of each game into
Speaker 2: the next game, and then the Wakefield wholeal game was
Speaker 2: very entertaining. Was it was a bizarre game at times,
Speaker 2: but it was It was definitely thrilling and that that
Speaker 2: Jpitz offload flick offload for Mason Mino to score the
Speaker 2: winner with two minutes ago was brilliant. And then switching
Speaker 2: over to the Wigan game but I think it was
Speaker 2: like about five or ten minutes in and that was
Speaker 2: obviously an entertaining game, some brilliant skill from from Wigan,
Speaker 2: from Marsden and Farm London in SA. But but yeah,
Speaker 2: I like the Stagger on the Saturday, but nothing on
Speaker 2: the Sunday, which when you've got three games on a
Speaker 2: Friday night can being which other it seems a bit
Speaker 2: stupid to me. It's a free hit a Sunday game,
Speaker 2: particularly I mean, we're at the point of the season,
Speaker 2: aren't we. There's no football because the club season's finished
Speaker 2: and the World Cup, the Fifth World Cup is a
Speaker 2: week away, isn't it. So the other thing is with
Speaker 2: the times of the Fifth World Cup, they're not very
Speaker 2: friendly a lot of them to the UK audience. There's
Speaker 2: quite a few games at midnight at five am, so
Speaker 2: three am. So yeah, I don't know the scheduling why
Speaker 2: there's no Sunday games. I think it's a missed opportunity
Speaker 2: in my opinion.
Speaker 1: I've which through the score lines and some of the
Speaker 1: news items just because we've got some real good questions
Speaker 1: this week. And if you want to get questions to
Speaker 1: myself or John, John likes someone X, so it's at
Speaker 1: Johnny D. Davidson and you can get me on X
Speaker 1: as well at rol Coach on the net, but John's
Speaker 1: more of an X man. You can email me admin
Speaker 1: at Rugby League Coach dot com. But say you there's one.
Speaker 1: We've had here for a couple of weeks. But because
Speaker 1: we had a week off and we've mentioned already Wigan's
Speaker 1: academy and we can have a deep dive into these questions.
Speaker 1: It was Adam, who said highly hope you and John
Speaker 1: are well. If you had time in the podcast, I
Speaker 1: wondered if you could discuss Chris Radlinsky's comments around Wigan's
Speaker 1: struggles retaining academy talent due to the salary cap. My
Speaker 1: feeling is that some of the club's are counting on
Speaker 1: clubs like Wigan needing to release academy players because of
Speaker 1: this salary cap. Why putting the hard graft when we're
Speaker 1: going are doing it for them. I don't think clubs
Speaker 1: should just be further incentivized to develop young players. I
Speaker 1: think they should be compelled to do so as a
Speaker 1: criteria of Super League membership, I e. Clubs would have
Speaker 1: to document how they've invested x percent of turnover or
Speaker 1: broadcasting them into youth development. They could do this in
Speaker 1: a variety of ways, more talent scouts, improved facilities for
Speaker 1: academy sides, investment in youth clubs, et cetera. Be interesting
Speaker 1: to know what you think you go first, John, I mean, now,
Speaker 1: I've got big history in player development, so I can
Speaker 1: come at certain angles, but you you will know more
Speaker 1: about the reality of it. I suppose, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a really it's a really good question and thanks
Speaker 1: for that. I think there's a lot of tenets to it.
Speaker 1: I think I don't know exactly.
Speaker 2: When there weren't terned for Wigan, it might have been
Speaker 2: twenty ten or before that, but I think particularly since then,
Speaker 2: you know, with Sam Tompkins and others, they've used the
Speaker 2: Kademy not only as an income income source in terms
Speaker 2: of selling talent to the NRL, but they've worked out
Speaker 2: that in a salary cap sport, it's kind of vital
Speaker 2: that you produce your own players because, as I said before,
Speaker 2: you can play them less under the cap, it's easier
Speaker 2: to retain them. They're more likely to take less than
Speaker 2: they can get elsewhere because they feel a loyalty to
Speaker 2: the club. They feel the connection, and I think we're
Speaker 2: going to have been for a long time very good
Speaker 2: at getting those you know, fifteen year olds in and
Speaker 2: teaching them the wig and way, you know, the culture
Speaker 2: of the club, you know, a style of rugby league
Speaker 2: that is you know, distinct to them. And also, yeah,
Speaker 2: the fact that it just gives you a salary cup
Speaker 2: advantage now where you can't keep all your players because
Speaker 2: of the salary Cup. What you can do is you
Speaker 2: can have them for a period and you can obviously
Speaker 2: pick which ones you want to keep it which ones
Speaker 2: unfortunately you might have to let go. But then you
Speaker 2: bring things through the next generation. And they're doing that,
Speaker 2: you know, with Marsden and Pheromone and others. And now
Speaker 2: in terms of the other clubs, Look, the difference is
Speaker 2: I think a super league is there isn't a huge
Speaker 2: you know. One of the reasons why not every club
Speaker 2: has an academy is yes, money because it takes money
Speaker 2: to fund it and put into it. But also there
Speaker 2: isn't just the raw amount of players that there used
Speaker 2: to be. Participation has dropped a lot, so it's not like,
Speaker 2: you know, there is the playing base that there is
Speaker 2: in Penrith.
Speaker 1: Or and towns have changed significantly to their their industry
Speaker 1: has changed. I mean yeh, So to the point about
Speaker 1: making clubs develop their own I mean there's some areas
Speaker 1: in old fashioned rugby league areas now where they'd be
Speaker 1: hard pressed getting a population of people together full stop.
Speaker 1: Never mind yeah, never mind academy talent.
Speaker 2: The thing is you look at you look at the
Speaker 2: Wigan Academy, is it isn't just kids from Wigan, you know,
Speaker 2: You look at Zach Eckers, okay it's from Oldham. You
Speaker 2: look at who's you know, who's now playing for camera?
Speaker 2: Sorry camera, You've got morgansm These and Manny Nicholson where
Speaker 2: I left there from Halifax. Jack Faramond is not from Wigan,
Speaker 2: he's from Lee. Now you can say that's next door,
Speaker 2: which it is. But the thing is we're going to
Speaker 2: identified quite a long time ago that there isn't just
Speaker 2: you know, we can't just look at the kids in ourtown.
Speaker 2: We need to look further afield and get the best
Speaker 2: kids from the country. And other clubs have done this.
Speaker 2: Leeds have been doing it for a while, Saint Helen's,
Speaker 2: you know, they've been taking the best kids from Witness
Speaker 2: for a long time. So that's just there's a shrinking platform.
Speaker 2: So it's not just as easy as put money into
Speaker 2: your academy and you all have a Wigan style academy.
Speaker 2: I think we need to expand the whole participation base first.
Speaker 2: But in saying that, I don't think you can necessarily
Speaker 2: tell each club Okay, you have to have academy and
Speaker 2: you have to put X in it. You know, we
Speaker 2: can go, we can deep dive for into this. But
Speaker 2: you look at say a club like Canberra Lee, there
Speaker 2: some are in the sense that don't have the local juniors.
Speaker 2: They do have some local juniors and they're very good
Speaker 2: at picking you know, from the River Arena and timor
Speaker 2: and like that. But they've also historically always been very
Speaker 2: good at picking up kids from New Zealand and kids
Speaker 2: from Queensland and another areas to help themselves and mainly
Speaker 2: have done the same. There's obviously manly juniors in the
Speaker 2: manly team like the troboyvich Is, you know, Joey Walsh,
Speaker 2: et cetera. But they've also historically been very good at
Speaker 2: getting Kiwi's and Queenslanders, you know, whether it be Batty
Speaker 2: Vaud and Chris Cloves going back, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So I don't think there's necessarily a one size fits
Speaker 2: model for every club in every area. You know, Newcastle
Speaker 2: in Australia and Penrith are going to have more advantages
Speaker 2: than say Sydney Roosters, and the Roosters don't have many
Speaker 2: local juniors, but they've been very good at getting Boyd
Speaker 2: Cordner from North and New South Wales from La Troll
Speaker 2: Mitchell from what Tara or wherever he's from. You know.
Speaker 2: So it's not a one size fits all model for me.
Speaker 2: But in saying that, I think what we're going to
Speaker 2: do is fantastic and it's a great model, and you
Speaker 2: know they're reaping the rewards of what they do.
Speaker 1: In my eagerness to get to that question, I forgot
Speaker 1: the game and you answered the last one with many
Speaker 1: of the points I was going to make. By the way,
Speaker 1: but there was a match between the bottom two in
Speaker 1: Huddersfield to lose. Came over and conquered Huddersfield sixteen to
Speaker 1: lose thirty six. Huddersfield scored through Greenwood, Flannagan and Gaguy
Speaker 1: Flannagan to kick two goals, but to lose were too
Speaker 1: good for them. Ocaine scored too, Ulberg scored just so
Speaker 1: just Army two, kai Ward Where's what's his name? Ash
Speaker 1: Old Bolt Sharrock scored six goals. He was playing and
Speaker 1: that's to lose his fourth win of the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it was a good win for to lose.
Speaker 2: I just say Huddersfield are dire lola here. Some of
Speaker 2: the stuff he did on the field was very poor
Speaker 2: and they just need Haddersfield. I mean they need I
Speaker 2: tweeted this during the game and a few people pushed
Speaker 2: back on it. I said, they need a major, major
Speaker 2: squad reset. But you know I've written this before. The
Speaker 2: club needs a whole reset. You know, the people have
Speaker 2: been running the club for the same people for twenty
Speaker 2: thirty years, and they keep bringing new coaches and sacking
Speaker 2: the coaches. It's not the coaches fault. The whole club
Speaker 2: needs a need.
Speaker 1: To lead them on the championship.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think I think unleashed them their director
Speaker 2: for change. They's got them unleashed.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately Jews. But didn't they Yeah, they didn't.
Speaker 2: I heard this a while ago before the latest news
Speaker 2: about the Shay that they were looking to.
Speaker 1: People might not know that because we've been away for
Speaker 1: two weeks. What's some news about the Shape?
Speaker 2: Oh that basically Ken Davey isn't going to buy the Shade.
Speaker 2: There's been some pushback from people in Halffax and with
Speaker 2: the council there. But there'd been some speculation a while
Speaker 2: ago that he was going to Buyewsbury Neewsbury Rams and
Speaker 2: then it would be some sort of York Newcastle arrangement
Speaker 2: where it Neewsbury became a feeder team and that they
Speaker 2: would play out of Dewsbury's ground. Now I don't know
Speaker 2: if that is true, but obviously where they're playing in
Speaker 2: Huddersfield at the whatever it is, the AQ Stadium now
Speaker 2: it's not sustainable and Nerewsbury would be another option. But yeah, Huddersfield,
Speaker 2: there's just so many issues at the club, whether it
Speaker 2: be recruitment, whether it be coaching, whether it be administration,
Speaker 2: whether it be marketing. Yeah, and it was My missus
Speaker 2: watched the game with me and her comment was this
Speaker 2: is shit and she doesn't want to shot a lot
Speaker 2: of rugby league. But her on the podcast makes she's
Speaker 2: more a rude than you with that assessment. She's more
Speaker 2: to the point these Yorkshire people, mate, they've got no.
Speaker 1: Is the shape is the Shae still in the process
Speaker 1: of being built because for about twenty years, well no
Speaker 1: I haven't.
Speaker 2: I haven't been there since the twenty third name World Cup.
Speaker 2: But no, it's built. It's a bit it's a bit
Speaker 2: old and antipidated. But Ken Davey has paid for a
Speaker 2: new pitch, I believe. But the thing is, and you
Speaker 2: see this with teams in all sorts of sports. If
Speaker 2: you move out of your home city, you're never gonna
Speaker 2: you know, we're going to increase your crowds are You're like,
Speaker 2: you're basically one step towards the grave. So whether they
Speaker 2: play in Halifax or Dewsbury, if you're Huddersfield, you know
Speaker 2: it's not good. And you know we've seen that more
Speaker 2: ricently with shefferd Urgeles. They played at Wakefield, they played
Speaker 2: at Rotherham, they played at Doncaster and their crowds have
Speaker 2: just gone playing a drum field which is not even
Speaker 2: in Sheffield either.
Speaker 1: So you know now what Johnny Davidson does sometimes on
Speaker 1: Johnny d Davidson on X is he asks for questions
Speaker 1: of the podcast and then answers them on X rather
Speaker 1: than getting people to listen to the podcast. But for
Speaker 1: those who didn't see his answer to Ben, Ben Blackwell asked,
Speaker 1: with Abdoll leaving his role, is it imperative for super
Speaker 1: League to get an NRL deal sorted prior to his
Speaker 1: departure or is any deal dependent on the value of
Speaker 1: NRL rights our sole before an offer is presented, as
Speaker 1: I feel PVO will be more ruthless in negotiations if
Speaker 1: the drags on post ab Doll.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I think you know a
Speaker 2: little bit about this as well.
Speaker 3: Lee.
Speaker 2: But from what I've I've been told and also from
Speaker 2: what I've read, I mean, Abdo was always kind of
Speaker 2: the safeguard with PVO, wasn't he. You know, I think, PVO,
Speaker 2: we'll do this, we'll do that, and then Abdo has
Speaker 2: got to try and deliver it and say, Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: that's not such a good idea. And I think there
Speaker 2: has been some conflict between the two of them. But
Speaker 2: I don't think no, I don't think a deal needs
Speaker 2: to be done before he leaves. I think my understanding
Speaker 2: is that the NRL wants to sort out its own
Speaker 2: TV deal first and obviously seeing how much money it
Speaker 2: can bring in before getting to super League. I think
Speaker 2: PVL is still quite keen on getting a super League
Speaker 2: deal done. But the whole PVL thinks very interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 2: He wants to be executive chairman, fewer supreme leader.
Speaker 1: Of although he is it everywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know why he denies it,
Speaker 2: because it's quite clear. I mean, he kind of has
Speaker 2: been for a while anyway, hasn't he. I think the
Speaker 2: only really check has been abdo the board, the commission
Speaker 2: board has been you know. The accusation is that they're
Speaker 2: all yes men or yes women. But they have to
Speaker 2: change the constitution, don't they to make him supreme leader.
Speaker 2: Now I've heard that Paramatta and SaaS are against making
Speaker 2: him executive chairman, and I think all the clubs apparently
Speaker 2: need to agree, So it'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 2: that plays out as well.
Speaker 1: And he also needs both states.
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know. I don't know where the state's
Speaker 2: in on that. Looking it's not an attack on PVL.
Speaker 2: I think PVL has done an amazing job run the
Speaker 2: game and it's grown. But I also don't think giving
Speaker 2: one individual absolute power in anything in any walk of
Speaker 2: like of any industry is generally good in a longer
Speaker 2: term scenario. Yeah, but other people will disagree with that.
Speaker 2: That's just my own personal.
Speaker 1: JJ Smith asked for our thoughts on the Bray mcdomott
Speaker 1: podcast with James Graham his view on the Super League
Speaker 1: versus NRL comparisons and where the game is at the moment,
Speaker 1: and we both said on exit we had watched it.
Speaker 1: Well this morning I had a look so Brian mcdurmamt
Speaker 1: at the brand new coach of England. My thoughts are,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few people raving a little bit
Speaker 1: about Brian McDermott. He's the person I wanted, right if
Speaker 1: it wasn't Wayne Bennett for a bit and then Brian Herbert.
Speaker 1: Brian mcdermotts the one I wanted. He spoke to me
Speaker 1: exactly how I had to expect somebody given the top
Speaker 1: job in the country to speak, quite frankly. So he's
Speaker 1: a better communicator than Sean Wayne. Sean Wayne is a
Speaker 1: is a communicator. Don't don't be mean Sean Wayne. Sean
Speaker 1: Wayne communicates and it's very clear what Sean Wayne's thinking.
Speaker 1: But Brian mcdermot's a better orator basically and and looks
Speaker 1: at different things, and I I hope he gets an
Speaker 1: extended run in the job. He also made some good
Speaker 1: points about the the number of sets it takes to
Speaker 1: score a try in the NRL versus Super League, et cetera.
Speaker 1: I thought he was quite nice about su Bully, quite frankly,
Speaker 1: rather than saying what your missus said about it being
Speaker 1: shipped one game, just one game, yeah, I I was
Speaker 1: to answer JJ, Yeah, I mean, I'm glad he's England
Speaker 1: coach and that's probably the best, the best thing I
Speaker 1: can say about him.
Speaker 2: So John, I haven't I haven't had a chance to
Speaker 2: listen or watch watch it yet. I will do this week.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I think buying m it's a
Speaker 2: fascinating figure, isn't he with his background, his history, and
Speaker 2: he clearly can coach. You look at you know what
Speaker 2: he did at Leeds, what he did landon so it's
Speaker 2: going to be really interesting what he does with with England.
Speaker 2: Not a lot of leads and I'm not a lot
Speaker 2: of prep, but I think he I think he's a
Speaker 2: decent appointment.
Speaker 1: You can't underestimate time in Australia though, I mean, I
Speaker 1: know my yeah, personal personal rugby league IQ went up
Speaker 1: several notches just after living in Australia for two years
Speaker 1: and coaching at the level of coached that because you
Speaker 1: get exposed to more scrutiny. You get exposed to more
Speaker 1: scrutiny from the people who were on your side, and
Speaker 1: you get exposed to more scrutiny by your opponents, better
Speaker 1: players that you're coaching against and better coaches that you're
Speaker 1: coaching against. I remember learning a lesson very early that
Speaker 1: about how even coaches at lower level study tape and
Speaker 1: and they caught me out in one game and that
Speaker 1: I never I never ever made the same mistake again,
Speaker 1: and if anything, I overcompensated for that. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think Brian McDermott has done a few years now
Speaker 1: in the NRL system and it's paying dividends. John Hodgson asks,
Speaker 1: with the talk about player welfare from the RLPA wire
Speaker 1: Origin players still allowed to back up and play for
Speaker 1: their clubs a couple of days later.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I don't exactly know the answer
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Well I've got an answer.
Speaker 2: Well there.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, they pay the wages, so so
Speaker 1: they want outcome. Secondly, a lot of these clubs are
Speaker 1: actually very good over here at the sports science type things,
Speaker 1: so assessing where their players are at and and measuring
Speaker 1: it rather than just going off their Jedi powers kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Thirdly, younger players tend to be able to
Speaker 1: back up a lot easier. Fourthly, in Australian culture, as
Speaker 1: you grow up, there's carnivals where players play day after
Speaker 1: day after day after day. A lot of Australian kids
Speaker 1: play two games in one day quite often as well.
Speaker 1: It's not yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not. It's certainly not
Speaker 1: frowned upon over here. What will say though, that will
Speaker 1: that is going another layer or putting another layer onto
Speaker 1: this as players they want to play. It's the training,
Speaker 1: it's the problem. It's the training exactly, you know it's there.
Speaker 1: It's the they would rather play two games a week
Speaker 1: and have lower training loads than play once a week
Speaker 1: and have to taper and all this kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So I think it's a great question because you can
Speaker 1: understand why somebody might get confused by that. But the
Speaker 1: reality is training is a means to an end, and
Speaker 1: it's so we can play the game. And quite frankly,
Speaker 1: I think there's less players backing up now than used
Speaker 1: to for for obvious reasons. And I think they've got
Speaker 1: the balance about right now. I think it's about twenty
Speaker 1: or thirty percent of players that back up now after
Speaker 1: Origin in many ways.
Speaker 2: Quick question for it, Lee, have you have you found
Speaker 2: after you spit after Origin one? Because obviously we're going
Speaker 2: to we're.
Speaker 1: Going to get to Origin and oh yeah, especially as
Speaker 1: I've got you on Bainesy eighty three said, I am
Speaker 1: sensing some conflict when the Ponger incident is mentioned, but
Speaker 1: he wants to know what the pathways route is in
Speaker 1: Australia and how it should be structured in the UK,
Speaker 1: and what would the NRL look to do about pathways
Speaker 1: if they become a stakeholder. Again, this is a bit
Speaker 1: of my especial. It was never better than under David Waite,
Speaker 1: under the and Chris Chapman, when the Sport England guys
Speaker 1: funded it quite significantly. And the reality is I don't
Speaker 1: think you need loads of funding to do some of
Speaker 1: the things that they did, quite frankly, but when it
Speaker 1: was best, we had service areas. Now, I was only
Speaker 1: having this conversation with somebody in Maitland. I was near
Speaker 1: your home, Pats, the other day and we were talking
Speaker 1: about how Australia is useless at dual use.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So what I mean by dual use in that regard
Speaker 1: is every school tends to have a sports hall, many
Speaker 1: of them have a gym, they have fields etc. At
Speaker 1: three o'clock. They don't get used after three o'clock and
Speaker 1: then there'll be a club just down the road that's
Speaker 1: got its own field is trying to raise money for
Speaker 1: its own gym. If somebody had a bigger picture thought
Speaker 1: we'd combine all resources. Well anyway, under the service area
Speaker 1: style of development under David Waite Chris Chapman, I'm talking
Speaker 1: late nineties to I don't know when the end of
Speaker 1: it was, but in the tens, not the notice. There
Speaker 1: were service areas where if twenty players were identified from club,
Speaker 1: they'd scout the schools would say, well have you seen
Speaker 1: these two players that aren't on that list, And then
Speaker 1: I don't know the somebody at the church would say
Speaker 1: do you know about this player who's not played for
Speaker 1: two years? But they just pitch everything together and there
Speaker 1: was committees formed essentially from all facets of the game. Okay,
Speaker 1: so if you imagine the different people who play rugby
Speaker 1: league at different levels, there's the amateurs, professionals, the police,
Speaker 1: the students, the army, the navy, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. So that was the best system and there
Speaker 1: was a filtered way of doing it and it was
Speaker 1: all based on evidence. You had to justify your selections.
Speaker 1: Once nepotism becomes an issue, once bias becomes an issue,
Speaker 1: then your development system can falter because the best aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily rising to the crop, to the best to the top. Sorry. Look,
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that needs to happen. It's
Speaker 1: not a magic pill. It's not a case of they
Speaker 1: do something in Australia that they don't do in England.
Speaker 1: The development system in Australia is always changing and I
Speaker 1: don't think they know what the best thing is and
Speaker 1: there's thousands and thousands of kids who get missed in
Speaker 1: this country. It's actually been really disappointing and it's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons my business exists, which is at Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach dot com to tay you if you were wondering.
Speaker 1: So the reality is in England, all they need to
Speaker 1: do is find out who the best people are in
Speaker 1: the United Kingdom capable of playing rugby league, and in
Speaker 1: a very very very very very layman's way of putting it,
Speaker 1: they need to give them the option of playing some
Speaker 1: rugby league somewhere somehow. That's what a good development system is,
Speaker 1: and then if they're good at it, you identify them
Speaker 1: and move them up to the next level. I could
Speaker 1: literally fill a podcast with this, but that's the basic
Speaker 1: tenants of it. Tenants of it do you want to
Speaker 1: say something, I can tell your mouth move then I
Speaker 1: was just going to s.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, at the very early level, it's
Speaker 2: just literally going to schools and giving people the opportunity
Speaker 2: to play. I know with my daughter, obviously she'd grown
Speaker 2: up around it but never had any interest or whatever.
Speaker 2: And then Sheffield Eagles did a you know, came into
Speaker 2: her class and that would I think it was a
Speaker 2: tag thing or whatever, and she, you know, she got
Speaker 2: interested and I took her to a few fit training
Speaker 2: sessions and you know, to a Super League game and
Speaker 2: she loved it. So that's how you've got to build
Speaker 2: that early connection, you know, when they're maybe five years, six, seven, eight, nine,
Speaker 2: ten years old. You know you've got to start that
Speaker 2: and then you've got to continue it. So I think
Speaker 2: schools is a big thing that Australia has got right
Speaker 2: that England apart from a handful of schools it's rugby league.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't really exist in the schools, which is
Speaker 2: a big problem for me.
Speaker 1: Dave Campbell said, possible rule change not another one day.
Speaker 1: Surely Ryan Hall should have to catch the ball cleanly
Speaker 1: when stepping all of the touch line to gain a
Speaker 1: penalty from a kickoff, and he's put an asterisk next
Speaker 1: to Ryan Hall saying obviously all players, what's it going
Speaker 1: on about?
Speaker 2: Job? He's referring to Thursday night when Ryan Hood did
Speaker 2: that from a shun's kickoff. I agree with him. I
Speaker 2: think you should have to catch it cleanly, not kind
Speaker 2: of catching, and then drop the ball knock it on
Speaker 2: as well. I agree with that.
Speaker 1: I still don't know what you're going on about, Hoy said,
Speaker 1: I saw it in another comment. But kickoffs that are
Speaker 1: bang on the money but defender steps of legout thus
Speaker 1: carried out on fall, is that the same thing? Yes,
Speaker 1: that's the rule nowadays. The kicker has nailed that kickoff
Speaker 1: in boundaries and should not be punished for it. Credit
Speaker 1: the kicker, not the catcher.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think I think the point is
Speaker 2: if the kick is that close to the sideline that
Speaker 2: you can catch the ball with a foot out doing
Speaker 2: it out, then then that's a mistake by the kicker.
Speaker 2: So I disagree.
Speaker 1: I think yeah, the fundamental thing about rugby league is
Speaker 1: different to soccer than other sports. It's not about the
Speaker 1: ball being over the line necessarily. Is it's about contact
Speaker 1: with the body? Ashley Harrison asked, and there was attached
Speaker 1: an AI pick of the referee whose name escapes me.
Speaker 1: What's his name? Who did the first Test last year
Speaker 1: and the Grand Final? What's his name? A picture of
Speaker 1: him in a leash shirt and he said, is this allowed?
Speaker 1: I think actually needs to potentially work out what AI is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think the whole AI people using AI
Speaker 2: to make images of players crying or refs in particular clubs.
Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, give yourself an apple cat. It's you
Speaker 2: need to get a life quickly.
Speaker 1: And if I do anything wrong on video, it's definitely
Speaker 1: a deep fake. N RL news Broncos have lost the
Speaker 1: last five john now they did. They lost fives a grass.
Speaker 1: They lost five in a role last year around us
Speaker 1: similar time actually, but what's alarming about this is they
Speaker 1: lost to the bottom two sides at the time, Saint
Speaker 1: George Lall Warror and the titles and they were hammered
Speaker 1: by I'm not saying their name out loud, ro Johnson
Speaker 1: and New Zealand Warriors. Yeah, what do you make of that?
Speaker 2: I'm not I'll be completely honest. I've not seen a
Speaker 2: lot of the Broncos and recently I know they've had
Speaker 2: a fifty injuries, haven't I obviously bolsh, but yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: they need bus to come back and start slaming them
Speaker 2: and they can go on their cruise arounds in them.
Speaker 2: And they've had a lot of I mean, they're arguably
Speaker 2: the biggest club in the NRL, aren't they. So they've
Speaker 2: always they always have off field things. But I had
Speaker 2: that that thing would tell us and their their spin
Speaker 2: doctor and the naming of the meeting room, and they
Speaker 2: seem to have had so many off field things as well.
Speaker 2: Obviously paying hears what's happened there him leaving at the
Speaker 2: end of the year. So yeah, I think I think
Speaker 2: the possibility with the Broncers is they can catch fires
Speaker 2: they did last year. Whether they will or not, I
Speaker 2: don't know, but yeah, I think it's also a nott
Speaker 2: of how competitive the NRL is, isn't it, Because I mean,
Speaker 2: we'll put the West Tigers result today to one side,
Speaker 2: but before that West has been going fairly well. Obviously,
Speaker 2: Camera this year have been pretty shite. Last year they
Speaker 2: were minor premiers. Mainly we're fairly shype. You know, they're
Speaker 2: a top three team this year. Newcastle very good this year.
Speaker 2: They've been shype for how many years? Melbourne, I know
Speaker 2: they've turned a corner recently, but they were you know,
Speaker 2: they've been one of the premier clubs for ages, but
Speaker 2: most of this year they've been very ordinary. Roosters pushed
Speaker 2: back up the fold. Look, I think it's the give
Speaker 2: and throw of the NRL. The Dolphins have really pushed up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think the narrow is ridiculously competitive most games most weeks,
Speaker 2: and the Broncos have just not been where they need
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: I think it's also a legacy and the fact that
Speaker 1: we're basically seeing a different sport. I call it the
Speaker 1: National Ping Pong rugby League because they just sort of
Speaker 1: tackle and let go of each other and there's no
Speaker 1: there's nothing sustainable. Really. I think a mixture of the
Speaker 1: fields being a bit damper. I think a mixture of
Speaker 1: the players getting more used to it and the rest
Speaker 1: just easing up a little bit on it a meaning
Speaker 1: that some of the score lines aren't blowing out as much.
Speaker 1: But look, I did a quick mathematical thing before we
Speaker 1: started this podcast, already before the Croneler game today, there
Speaker 1: was an average of fifty point five points in each
Speaker 1: game still so so most games add sixty eight, fifty one,
Speaker 1: fifty four, sixty two, so that there was four of
Speaker 1: those and then there was twenty six and forty two.
Speaker 1: So look, it's an unrecognizable game in many ways. You
Speaker 1: mentioned something about PNG chiefs. Have we covered what what
Speaker 1: UK based talent they've snapped up?
Speaker 2: I think obviously we talked about it before, about Mary
Speaker 2: Lee's and the others. Yeah, who want to watch the
Speaker 2: Jerome Lui?
Speaker 1: No UK based? You said, Yeah, there's.
Speaker 2: There's a few from London Broncos, which I think they're
Speaker 2: not a fish. Well, there's a few going to Perth,
Speaker 2: I think, but I'm sure there'll be some more from
Speaker 2: the Broncos announce. But obviously Michael Chamas and the recruitment
Speaker 2: manager Lee and Aube were out in England. Michael Chammas
Speaker 2: did make some comments about Super League. I think it
Speaker 2: was the word the round before the Challenge got final,
Speaker 2: saying it was the worst round of super League to see,
Speaker 2: which rather up the usual people in England saying oh,
Speaker 2: well the NRL is not as competitive and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's the predictable nature of the response league.
Speaker 2: The same thing for me is and I don't engage
Speaker 2: with a lot of it anymore because it's just boring.
Speaker 2: But a lot of people can't really debate, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's kind of like, you know, Lee,
Speaker 2: you said my mum's fat. Well you know your mum's fat.
Speaker 2: So do you know what I mean? That's the base
Speaker 2: level that we're out in terms of debate. But yeah,
Speaker 2: because Michael Michael chamis knowing him a little bit. You know,
Speaker 2: he's not said that to attack super League or now,
Speaker 2: you know, just to fire a shot. He's just made
Speaker 2: an honest comment and then obviously he goes on to
Speaker 2: explain it in the story, which people wouldn't have written
Speaker 2: read anyway. But yeah, look, I think what the P
Speaker 2: and G chiefs are doing is really impressive. I think
Speaker 2: particularly on the PR front. You know, they're getting all
Speaker 2: the headlines out of again, all the positivity. You know.
Speaker 2: I think Willie Peters is a very very good coach.
Speaker 2: Luke Bert, which are sorried about a Wargo assistant coach? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, the contrast with them in Perth is quite
Speaker 2: staggering in terms of perception. Aaron Forhm's got the job
Speaker 2: at Manley. That's going to end in tears. You know
Speaker 2: you're not happy with that. His eight wins out of
Speaker 2: ten games, you know.
Speaker 1: Well exactly, well, you've just given him more fuel to
Speaker 1: the fire. Who did the pre season at that club?
Speaker 1: John Anthony who put all the staff in place? I
Speaker 1: would say Anthony Sea Bowl and probably Tony mester Off.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, and yes we all could see
Speaker 1: a better way that man they needed to play. There
Speaker 1: was plenty of us, look would see that. There's a
Speaker 1: lot more to coaching than getting a team that's already
Speaker 1: been that's already been whipped into shape and been given
Speaker 1: all the tactics, you know, by all measured. All he's
Speaker 1: done is challenge them to go through the middle a
Speaker 1: bit more rather than trying to pass around teams, et cetera.
Speaker 1: He's given them confidence, et cetera. His real challenges are
Speaker 1: going to come. And I'll compare this with what Manchester
Speaker 1: United did with Carrick, Michael Carrick. They didn't rush. So
Speaker 1: if Michael Carrick ends up not being too much chopped now,
Speaker 1: but now he's the full time manager of Manchester United,
Speaker 1: him fairness, he United. I think they give it as
Speaker 1: much time as the cord. Back in the days when
Speaker 1: Soltshire was the caretaker, they couldn't wait to give him
Speaker 1: the job. And then after that the players down tools
Speaker 1: and started to relax a little bit because it was
Speaker 1: clear that they were running the asylum. And it's clear
Speaker 1: probably that the players have had some some saying this too.
Speaker 1: So there's an awful lot more to coaching. Coaching football
Speaker 1: as a head coach in the NRL is about twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five thirty percent the job. There's going to be
Speaker 1: contract negotiations, there's going to be scandals, there's going to
Speaker 1: be dealing with players who've got issues outside of football.
Speaker 1: There's going to be so many things, and I just
Speaker 1: think they they've done this too much on emotion a
Speaker 1: little bit. I also know Kieran Forum has good third
Speaker 1: party payments, yes, so I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: if they've done it from a cost point of view
Speaker 1: as well. And this isn't a slight on care and Forum.
Speaker 1: He's doing great. I coached him, but the first ever
Speaker 1: Manly team I was in Australia, he was in that
Speaker 1: side and I've got no problem with heran Forum, but
Speaker 1: it is an absolute risk. I mean two months ago
Speaker 1: we were talking about experienced coaches that have done an apprenticeship.
Speaker 1: Obviously Brad Arthur would have hoothered around the job too.
Speaker 1: Now they've given it to someone who's been coaching for
Speaker 1: six months.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, Look, I fully agree, I fully understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and it is a risk. I think
Speaker 2: every appointment is a risk. But you are right and
Speaker 2: that the actual coaching is only a small percentage of
Speaker 2: the job. And I think they've been smart and that
Speaker 2: they've taken away the recruitment and negotiations a lot of
Speaker 2: the sponsor side of the job for him, so he
Speaker 2: can just purely focus on the coaching. And obviously the
Speaker 2: players have responded to him. I think with sea Bold,
Speaker 2: they you know, most Manly fans would agree they should
Speaker 2: have sacked sea Bold last year. He probably never was
Speaker 2: the right coach for the club anyway, but he has
Speaker 2: fear and foren has cut it back. Isn't it just
Speaker 2: to the basics of you know, run harder, tackle, make
Speaker 2: your tackles, defense right and he's instilled them with confidence.
Speaker 2: Now eight wins out of ten games, it's probably better
Speaker 2: than any Manly then would have envisaged. He's very early
Speaker 2: in your coaching career. As you said, he will make mistakes.
Speaker 2: But I think part of the reason they've appointed him
Speaker 2: is the fact that he's already a much loved figure
Speaker 2: because of you know, the how he bled for the
Speaker 2: Jersey as a player, and it's energized the whole community.
Speaker 2: You know, they've got KFC science being made in his
Speaker 2: in his visives. So look, time will tell three years
Speaker 2: down the line whether it was the right choice of
Speaker 2: the moment. I'm perfectly as a as a many fan,
Speaker 2: I'm happy that he's the coach and hopefully we can
Speaker 2: have a tool at the premiership.
Speaker 1: You know, so since our since our last podcast, we've
Speaker 1: had Origin and you've mentioned it already. Look, my main
Speaker 1: problem with Orange Origin one and as we record now
Speaker 1: Origin two squads will be him out shortly. He's the
Speaker 1: There's been seven send offs in the history of Origin,
Speaker 1: which is nearly fifty years old. Four of them have
Speaker 1: come in the last four years. And guess who's done
Speaker 1: them all, Ashley kleimb And I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: three years. So in the year that Joseph Suley he
Speaker 1: got sent off after nine minutes that changed that game.
Speaker 1: New South Wales was going to game they were never
Speaker 1: going to well well. And then then in terms of
Speaker 1: the law of the of the laws of the game, yes,
Speaker 1: my problem is also with the laws of the game.
Speaker 1: It's people who don't understand the sport who were making
Speaker 1: these laws. Right, So hold that thought. The year before
Speaker 1: he sent there was he did two sendoffs in game
Speaker 1: one and game three the year after. So last year
Speaker 1: blew the p out the whistle against Queensland sold New
Speaker 1: south Wales won in some court, blew the pe out
Speaker 1: the whistle in game two, so that queens then got
Speaker 1: over the top of New south Wales in game two.
Speaker 1: Game three put the whistle away. Game one this year
Speaker 1: refereed fantastically, but when that happened, he could not wait
Speaker 1: to send Kayle and Ponger off. Funnily enough, New South
Speaker 1: Wales were down twenty six twenty points to six at
Speaker 1: the time and were really struggling. Okay, So that's that
Speaker 1: I didn't want the game to be decided by the referee.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm shitty, because it's been decided by
Speaker 1: the referee. Secondly, to your point about the law and
Speaker 1: about the these rules are getting made up by people
Speaker 1: who do not understand would league, Now, first of all,
Speaker 1: how much lower was Joseph Suwalihi meant to get the
Speaker 1: time he tackled Reese Walsh? How much lower was Cale
Speaker 1: and Ponger meant to go the other day? Yes, his
Speaker 1: tackle technique was awful. How much lower was he to go?
Speaker 1: Did he need to dig a hole in the ground
Speaker 1: and go that low? The people who were making these
Speaker 1: rules and the people who were adjudicating on these things,
Speaker 1: not one of them has been an origin fullback rushing
Speaker 1: across at very high speed. Because Calen long as quick,
Speaker 1: and so was the cooler who was made who'd made
Speaker 1: a break, None of them have been in that position
Speaker 1: in that split second. In that split second, there was
Speaker 1: a head clash. There was clearly a head clash. Calen
Speaker 1: pointed to his ear where he had been cut. Now
Speaker 1: the game changed on the back of that decision. And
Speaker 1: that is my problem, John, My problem is that our
Speaker 1: top product that is watched by more people around the
Speaker 1: world gets fundamentally changed by laws that have been made
Speaker 1: by people who don't understand the game.
Speaker 2: Was there a question there?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 1: Am I to assume you agree with me, then, well, I.
Speaker 2: Agree with some of way he said. I mean the
Speaker 2: game has changed, I think is the simple fact. And
Speaker 2: because of dimension, because of M and D, because of
Speaker 2: what we understand about concussions and you know, lawsuits and stuff,
Speaker 2: the game has changed. There's no fighting. You know, we
Speaker 2: penalize head contact and attacks to the head a lot worse.
Speaker 2: And if you look at the pong of one, the
Speaker 2: fact is, and everyone knows who's ever watched pong of play,
Speaker 2: his tackle technique has never been particularly good. He literally
Speaker 2: did it in the Melbourne game on yesterday, but I
Speaker 2: was no s was a Friday, it's Friday or I
Speaker 2: don't know of us track of days. And on the
Speaker 2: colon one, he makes no attempt to tackle. He literally
Speaker 2: drops the shoulder to the head and that's that's foul
Speaker 2: play and that you know, I personally I thought he
Speaker 2: didn't pull the shoulder in the head. It was a
Speaker 2: head clash. M. He makes no attempt to make a tackle,
Speaker 2: He makes no attempt to.
Speaker 1: Rap again again again, the speed he was going out,
Speaker 1: how do you know and how does anybody know that
Speaker 1: because of the speed he went into him, that he's
Speaker 1: knocked him so hard that he just couldn't get his
Speaker 1: arms around in time. You can't simultaneously do it. You can't, perhaps.
Speaker 2: Perhaps for the fact that I think it was Tower
Speaker 2: who was already had made the tackle and he was
Speaker 2: basically coming over to wrap him up, and it looks
Speaker 2: to me and then he's just seen him there and
Speaker 2: he's gone, bang, I'll just dropped the shoulder and you know,
Speaker 2: and the chance to to smash him into oblivion now.
Speaker 1: Which is what happens in Origin. So so so everybody
Speaker 1: nobody bats an eyelid when we have a kickoff and
Speaker 1: three people smash someone there. He's telling me, there's no
Speaker 1: there's nothing near the head or anything there, there's no
Speaker 1: shoulders with.
Speaker 2: This.
Speaker 1: This is this is my this is my problem with it.
Speaker 2: You'd have to refer you'd have to compare it with
Speaker 2: a specific incident. But look, it's not a for me.
Speaker 2: It's not a new seth well's the Queensland thing or whatever.
Speaker 2: But I think the decision was correct as well. And
Speaker 2: I'm and you so well Spain, and it did change
Speaker 2: the game. I'm not disagreeing with you. And it changed
Speaker 2: the game on what was.
Speaker 1: It two weeks ago, because the players are diving now
Speaker 1: to get these head tackles.
Speaker 2: But that was quite a weird game because I don't
Speaker 2: think I've ever seen you so well play so badly
Speaker 2: and almost in the game, Lory.
Speaker 1: Daily can't culture pick to be dirty and your your.
Speaker 2: Man and James Tedesco, who you coach, had the best
Speaker 2: slash worst game I've ever seen play. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a bizarre, quite quite strange game. But yeah, look,
Speaker 2: I there's a lot of bit debate about it. You
Speaker 2: may disagree, but I think it was the right decision.
Speaker 1: Based on the laws of the game. I can understand why. Also,
Speaker 1: the bunker was saying be careful with this one. Normally,
Speaker 1: normally a referee listens to a bunk or not our Ashley. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I can see. I can see we're going to get
Speaker 1: nowhere with this match. Week fourteen as they call it
Speaker 1: in Super League Saints Quick quick predictions Saints at home
Speaker 1: to Warrington, Wolves at the brew Dog on Friday. Three
Speaker 1: games to lose at home to Leeds Leads, Wakefield at
Speaker 1: home to Wigan. That's a real tough fun game. That's
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm you've got a good record against Wigan.
Speaker 2: Ricent is, but I will probably just go slightly towards.
Speaker 1: Against two good games already. Okay are at home to York.
Speaker 1: Okay who left C at home to Huddersfield on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Can we pick two losers? I'll just be job well
Speaker 2: maybe yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1: Maybe Catalans at home to Castleford.
Speaker 2: I like actually cast in that one.
Speaker 1: I don't mind casting that one. And Halleluliah. There's a
Speaker 1: game on the Sunday Bradford Bulls versus Lee Leopards.
Speaker 2: I think probably with the form there in manning a
Speaker 2: bit of a runt. I think I think the Leopards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's been a bumper episode, John, because we had
Speaker 1: a week off. You can get me adminute Rugby League
Speaker 1: Coach dot com to tay you Rugby League coach on
Speaker 1: social Rugby League Coach dot com to tay you online. John.
Speaker 2: You can get me on exit Johnny D Davidson on Facebook,
Speaker 2: John Davidson, journalist and on Instagram at Johnny d Davidson
Speaker 2: r L.
Speaker 1: I think before the series on zero Tackles Loose Carry,
Speaker 1: I was asked for a prediction. I said Queensland three
Speaker 1: nil or Queensland two. Ashley climb one. I'm sticking with
Speaker 1: my second prediction, take care of everyone.