WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:01.960 Baby on My Gamestera too. 2 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:04.200 It takes a little tangle. 3 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:08.240 You don't mess with me, mess with me baby my 4 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:24.280 gamester too, pouch baby game Statooar. 5 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:27.440 This podcast is designed to take you outside of your 6 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:31.239 comfort zone and make you question reality. Listener discretion is 7 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:32.159 a vibe. 8 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:44.079 Fellas, this ain't my first time at the rodeos. 9 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:54.759 How do you, folks? Your host double J back here, 10 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:59.359 coming at you live slash live in a deep rain 11 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:06.040 delay from my studio slash RV dining room located directly 12 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:11.840 inside America. Folks of interwebs, once again JJ Vance here, 13 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:16.799 host of Operation GCD right there and perhaps more notably 14 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:22.000 not the vice president. So thanks for joining me here tonight, folks. 15 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:26.439 I will be your pilot navigator for tonight's Shenanigan infused 16 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.959 journey into the mind of this particular garbage can dude 17 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.480 and knocking a lot of you folks of interwebs, got 18 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:36.040 a real barn burner on deck for you all tonight 19 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:39.439 in a cult and a or s O terror review 20 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:45.040 of the nineteen eighty one film Ghost Story. And if 21 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:47.319 you folks of interwebs were like me and had not 22 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.359 heard of this film, you know it is an interesting 23 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.159 watch and hopefully you'll you'll reach that conclusion yourself. After 24 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:57.040 we discussed the Night's review. But it was the inspiration 25 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:01.319 of Tonight's guests that spawned this review because once again 26 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:03.439 I had not heard of this film, but Tonight's guest 27 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.239 John Mitchell, one of Tonight's guests, John Mitchell, in his 28 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:10.199 blog over on Substack, is highlighting a lot of these 29 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:13.560 matters relative to the Sun of Sam and this particular 30 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.560 one out of Peter straw books, that is the author 31 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:18.840 of this story that was later adapted into a film. 32 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.879 But this particular one ghost story I find interesting because 33 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.960 it was written contemporaneously to the Son of Sam events 34 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:28.080 in New York City back in with the arrest of 35 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.439 Burke Whits in seventy seven, and Straw writes this book 36 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:33.400 in seventy eight and is published in January of seventy nine, 37 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.719 and seems like seems like Peter Straw was in the 38 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:38.919 know and a lot of these cult details in around 39 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:42.120 that whole Sun of Sam process situation, and John's a 40 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:46.120 great research for into these matters relative to Yonkers cult 41 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:50.280 activities in around New York City, specifically Westchester County, New York. 42 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.960 The place I like to call a den of iniquity. 43 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.039 But thanks for joining us here tonight to get a 44 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.520 little GCD folks, and welcome our guests, John Mitchell and 45 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:05.759 Julia from Cosmic Peach. How y'all doing, Welcome to Operation GCD. 46 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:11.520 Welcome back now your first time, is it? Julia? John 47 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:13.439 greeting sir. Always great to have you back as well. 48 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:15.319 Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be back. 49 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.719 Absolutely, yeah, thanks thanks for having me. Jj. I'm excited 50 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:20.680 about this one. 51 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.599 For sure, me too. I really, you know, horror films 52 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.319 are not my you know, not my favorite genre, but 53 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.599 this one, given the esoteric understandings of a lot of 54 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:33.560 the things, uh and uh, just a lot of the 55 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.560 elements of the story I found very interesting. So and 56 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:37.560 it wasn't I had never heard of this film. So 57 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.599 and we actually had two other parties joining us tonight. 58 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.280 We had Davy Wavey and Nick has to be a 59 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:46.479 cult rejects. However, much like the characters in Tonight's film 60 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.439 who just seemingly, you know, fall off and die throughout 61 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:53.960 the storyline of Tonight's discussion. In the film plotline, Nick 62 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.400 and Davey Wavey didn't die, but I'm saying they've fallen 63 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.960 off Tonight's panal due to other reasons, weather and other matters, 64 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.280 personal matters. Nonetheless, we uh, we continue with our with 65 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.120 our with our review. And uh, I don't know, I 66 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:07.719 don't know. I have a lot of occult stuff. I mean, 67 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.280 I definitely saw a lot of esoteric stuff in the film. 68 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.039 And what were your thoughts, John Overall? I know you've 69 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:16.480 written a pretty an extensive block piece on Strab's work, 70 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:18.360 but you did a lot of you highlighted a lot 71 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:21.480 of very salient characteristics. I think of the Son of 72 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:24.160 Sam cult right in your blog piece relative to the 73 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.040 ghost story plotline, right. 74 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.800 Yeah, Yeah, there's an awful lot of stuff, especially in 75 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.920 the in the novel, but some of it survives in 76 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:39.360 the movie too, really really conscious references to the Ynker's cult, 77 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:46.680 And it's sort of like it's a version of the 78 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.040 story that never mentioned Son of Sam directly, but it 79 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:55.800 references all the other players and locations except for Son 80 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.839 of Sam itself. So it's it's it's odd the way 81 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.160 he did it, but it was ingenious for the book. 82 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.600 It's a it's a really interesting story structure. 83 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.560 Yeah, I agree for sure. I got some ideas on 84 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:11.040 those similar things that I saw, perhaps that more annoyed 85 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.800 thoughts I suppose of anything else, But before we get 86 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.040 into that, to those discussions, and before we discuss our 87 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.319 blog posts. Again, thank y'all both for joining me here, 88 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:21.160 and if I can offer you both, you know, your 89 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.439 time to plug anything you're working on or an introduction 90 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:26.040 anything you're working on, please John start us off there. 91 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:31.160 Sure, yeah, I know you got. 92 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:33.279 You got some new blog stuff, but as far as 93 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:35.199 and I'll have the links here in the show notes. 94 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:36.600 But if, yeah, if you want to introduce some of 95 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:39.120 your work, and and then Julie, of course we'll let 96 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:41.279 you do that next. And uh, then we'll get in 97 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.759 our discussion. Okay, well I'm not cutting out. 98 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.519 Well, I wrote a long essay or a short booklet 99 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.199 I guess, or pamphlet depending on how you you know 100 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:59.120 which classification you prefer, called before Son of Sam and 101 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:04.079 in the Substack blog, I'm just elaborating on some of 102 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:08.120 the points that I originally made in the booklet. And occasionally, 103 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.720 you know, you run across new information that relates to 104 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.480 things that you've already discussed. So yeah, I had been 105 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.199 thinking about the death Mask murder in the last few days, 106 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.120 so I just wrote up a little something on that, 107 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:23.480 but yeah, it's all Son of Sam adjacent stuff. 108 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.879 So yeah, that's awesome, And I'll make sure these links 109 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.040 from the show notes for folks that jack out. We'll 110 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:30.639 be diving into some of those blog posts here in 111 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.240 a second, because that death Mask one, that's a I 112 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.319 find out a very interesting and important case for folks 113 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.480 to understand what's going on with all that. But before 114 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.560 we get into that, Julia, thanks again man for joining 115 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.480 me here tonight. What have you been working out of 116 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:43.639 the Cosmic Peach podcast? 117 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.480 So, I'm actually working on something that I was talking 118 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.800 to John about before we started recording or before we 119 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:56.519 went live, which is program serial Killers. It's one of 120 00:06:56.600 --> 00:07:00.680 my favorite subjects to talk about. I actually I've discovered 121 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.600 two new program serial Killers that were not mentioned in 122 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:09.680 Program to Kill, but I've put together presentations on both 123 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.040 of them and those episodes will be coming out in 124 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.079 a month or so. I'd love to talk to you 125 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:19.839 JJ about them because they're absolutely mind blowing the connections. 126 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:26.319 But yeah, Cosmic podcast, uh huh oh sorry, go ahead, 127 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:31.000 oh yeah podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. But yeah, 128 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:32.720 I got a lot of cool stuff I'm working on, 129 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.079 and this episode seems to be falling right in line 130 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.040 with a bunch of stuff I'm working on too. Actually, 131 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.519 you know, program Killers is uh the best subject in 132 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:44.199 my opinion. 133 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.800 It's funny you mentioned that with this film hitting on 134 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.920 so many subjects of things we're already working on, because 135 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:52.360 I you know, it's not necessarily relative to the conversation. 136 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:53.680 So I'll bring it up here in a moment of 137 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:55.759 how that kind of hit. This film hit home to 138 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:59.759 me in some weird synchronistic fashions, right, But to this 139 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.560 Graham Killer note, you know, I think that is interesting 140 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:04.279 that I do think there is an aspect I think 141 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.319 mcgawan was correct relating some of the matters to this 142 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.560 cold activity and killings the son of Sam Coult and 143 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.839 related to cold activity in around the ankers that Johns 144 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.560 highlighted on his bag. I do find that very relative. 145 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.800 The two conversations are the same in my opinion. 146 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:18.879 Hmm. 147 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.000 Now, these ones you were going over, they weren't by 148 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:26.240 name Buffalo Jared Revisa, were they? 149 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.240 No? No, you probably won't even recognize him. If I 150 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.879 told you the name, I bet you probably haven't even 151 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:35.440 heard of him. 152 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:38.720 John Are you familiar with my former stalker and the 153 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.879 guy who demanded to be my pr Rep Buffalo Jared Reviza, 154 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.320 the parent mind controlled assassin. He went on a multi 155 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.519 state stabbing spree. 156 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:48.039 I think we talked about the first. 157 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:49.080 I talked about him. 158 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.519 A few months back. Yeah. 159 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:53.960 Yeah, So I did a show there night about a 160 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:57.799 cannibalistic homicidal kid ddling serial killer. It's like a boy, 161 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:02.080 the serial killer named Nathaniel Barr Jonah Right, would you 162 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:06.360 believe the same Bridgewater Statemental Hospital that let that that 163 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:08.720 looney tune, you know, on the loosse to go murder 164 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.879 and eat more kids? In nineteen ninety one, he moved 165 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.399 to Great Falls, Montana and continued his activities despite being 166 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.960 a registered offender in the state of Massachusetts and let 167 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.000 out of the looney bin after already doing this to 168 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:22.440 five other kids, five other kids, not eating them. He 169 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.240 didn't do that until later, but or at least on record, 170 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.519 but he was let out the Bridgewater Statemental Hospital, and 171 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.279 that's where Buffalo Jared allegedly sits today. So I have 172 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.360 a lot of come on, I have a lot of questions. 173 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.000 JJ. The only thing that's even adjacent to being in 174 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:42.840 a military program, is being in a minial hospital. Yeah, 175 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.360 I mean they'll get you either way. 176 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.840 Well, I'm glad you said that. So to this point 177 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:51.720 of how these these homicidal mind controlled you know, you know, 178 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:55.799 hypnosis controlled or whatever you want to call it, serial killers, 179 00:09:55.840 --> 00:10:00.159 serial killers, right, you know, the system time and time 180 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.320 seems to just you know, inadvertently or accidentally let these 181 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.879 people out. So in the case of Nathaniel bar Jonah, 182 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.000 he had not only attempted to murder five children, beginning 183 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.320 eighth at the age of seven, and by the age 184 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.639 of seventeen, was in prison on a twenty year clip 185 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.279 for doing the same stuff keeping trying to kidnap and 186 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.200 kill children dressed as a police officer Edward wayn Edwards 187 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.639 would do the same thing, by the way, nonetheless, his 188 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:29.240 focus wasn't children, at least overwhelmingly, but nonetheless, Nathaniel bar 189 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:34.360 Jonah he tells numerous psychiatrists that he wants to kill 190 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:38.039 and eat children. He tells the judge that the judges 191 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:39.600 as it's no big deal, We're gonna let this go. 192 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.320 He's not this guy's not a danger to society. He 193 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.320 tells another psychiatrist that after the judge makes them willing 194 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.480 to let him out of the state mental hospital fourteen 195 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.919 years after on a twenty year clip in prison for 196 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.600 the kid the kid kidnapping and attempt to murder two children, right, 197 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.639 and when they let him out, he did the same 198 00:10:58.720 --> 00:10:59.840 thing less than a month later. 199 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:01.879 Fucker. 200 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:04.480 And you know what, you know what the district attorney 201 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.960 did on that on that charge that he did when 202 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.879 he kidnapped the kid less than month later, and he 203 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:09.519 would he was a three hundred pounds dude, so he 204 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.600 would disable the children by sitting on them, right, this 205 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.360 is this is his m He did the same thing, 206 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.879 kidnapping their kid, did the same thing, and the and 207 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.879 the uh County prosecutor there said, you know what, I 208 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:25.080 don't this guy's not a day. We're gonna give him probation. 209 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:26.159 We're gonna give him probation. 210 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:31.279 So well, that's the same with Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy. 211 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:36.759 They catch exactly exactly. And actually one of the serial 212 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:40.879 killers that I'm covering in an upcoming episode kept getting 213 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:44.639 let back out too. It was like orders from the 214 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:48.600 district attorney's office letting this guy out. I mean, I 215 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:51.000 can't give too much away obviously because you'll have to 216 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.240 listen to the episode, but it is crazy. And I 217 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.360 did see in the in the comment section they said, 218 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:00.879 is this the nineteen eighty one movie? Yes, it is, 219 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.759 and I had never heard of it, and I was 220 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.600 actually really excited because I love horror movies. 221 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:11.799 And on these kind of same notes of the mind 222 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:13.799 controlled serial killer, sasas and stuff, when we're talking all 223 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:17.159 these satanic cults and matters relative to the Son of 224 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.879 Same or the Process, right it is And one note 225 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:24.559 before I plugged the Anatomy of a Satanic panic series 226 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:30.679 starting tomorrow and Operation GCD Patreon, Nathaniel Barjona, the judge 227 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.240 that let him out was the special prosecutor in the 228 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:38.240 chap Aquidit case to let ted Kennedy walk, Make that 229 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.440 makes sense. And the woman that died in there, Mary 230 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:43.720 Joe Capecney. She was the senior staff or the RFK 231 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:45.919 on his presidential campaign, you know, the one where the 232 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:51.519 Process was associated with this assassination. And Teddy Kennedy by 233 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.639 that point in time, had already been documented meeting with 234 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.279 the Process and the Cambridge, Massachusetts mayor at the Process 235 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.399 coffee shop in Cambridge, Massachusetts prior to this eight so 236 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.039 seems seems kind of odd that this judge. You know, 237 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.519 all I like to say is process. Folks are gonna process, right, 238 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:08.399 So in this this judge seemed like he was more 239 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:12.279 than willing to ignore numerous statements from psychiatrists, statements from 240 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.559 the the actual homicidal psychopathic kid dedling, you know, serial 241 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.960 killer maniac guy, and another psychiatrist after he made his 242 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.360 decision just to say, you know what, we're gonna let 243 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.080 this guy out. He's on a dangerous society. 244 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.759 There's no coincidences. 245 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:30.919 So that I'll be going over certain aspects of unpacking 246 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.759 this is the quote unquote satanic panic and how ridiculous 247 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.559 a lot of these concepts are, and how they revolve 248 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:40.000 around a lot of around the psychological operations components, specifically 249 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:46.000 in other matters around this guy. Colonel Michael Aquino, Now, Julie, 250 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.440 are you famire? This is a relative to Dave mcgow 251 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.240 and John some of his work he did besides the 252 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.759 Program to Kill on some of these matters. Are you 253 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:57.639 familiar with the the infamous exchange that Aquino had with 254 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:00.759 Dave McGowan Syrica two thousand and one. 255 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:05.440 He had uh interaction with David Oh. 256 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.440 Yeah, yeah, So another one of the books, John, John, 257 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:11.360 you may not be familiar with this one, Julia, you 258 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:12.559 may be familiar with it. 259 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:17.320 Pedocracy, pedioocracy, Yeah, the pedaphocracy. 260 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.440 There we go, Pedophocracy, the McGowan books. So Aquina read that, 261 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:23.360 saw his name and other associated friends in there, and 262 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:25.919 wrote him an email saying, you're a madman, you're making 263 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:29.240 stuff up. You're you're creating satanic panic. Was a statement 264 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.399 of Quino made the McGowan be email. Obviously McGowan wasn't 265 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.759 buying it, no, and. 266 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:37.080 Also he probably read it and knew his goose was 267 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:40.639 cooked because McGowan had all the facts there. He never 268 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.240 published anything without having all the facts for sure. 269 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:46.600 And it's a it's a quite hilarious exchange. And I 270 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.399 will be coming going over with some of that and 271 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.440 my you know, outline and unpacking of this quote unquote 272 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.159 satanic panic. That again, when a man like Michael Quino 273 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.639 is accusing folks who were studying facts, and again McGowan 274 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:01.519 you know, provides in the fact states the facts as 275 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:04.080 you were pointing out, Julia, in the email exchanges they have, 276 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.720 you know, and it's kind of laughable. His response is 277 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.360 because mcgallan has a way of being kind of sarcastic 278 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.759 without even with being intelligent at the same time. You 279 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:12.200 know what I mean. 280 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.919 Mm hmm r I p Dave McGowan. I love that guy. 281 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:20.759 And also, hello Maria, I saw her mentioning me in 282 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.799 the comments. 283 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.759 Yeah, so that'll be a good one. Say on. On 284 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:30.200 top of that, I have one more plug before we 285 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.559 get we get started here, folks, and I do apologize 286 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:35.879 for any long winded natures. I have a actually we 287 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.320 have we have a different a cult esoteric review coming 288 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.039 up next week, don't we, Julia, Yes, we do. So 289 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:49.279 I married an axe murderer, right, Yeah, that's not it. 290 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.000 I got it here somewhere stand by one. 291 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:56.759 Yeah, so I married an axe murderers. Next week, yep. 292 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.279 This time. Next Wednesday, we have a different cult esoteric 293 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:02.639 view with the Cosmic Peach returning back along with myself, 294 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:08.320 Jen the Ninja Cain, my Idaho for I Haven't Costello Cohort, 295 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.279 and of course Hearty Love from Unfiltered Rise podcast. So 296 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:12.960 that'll be a good one. And then the following week 297 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:18.679 I have an occult esoteric review on lethal weapon. Relative 298 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.200 to all these Iran contra speaking of serial killers, Phoenix 299 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.559 program come Home ideas of David McGowan that we see 300 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.440 kind of depicted in that film, along with the drug 301 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.559 running that we know around things such as BCCI and 302 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:34.200 Iran Contra matters there. So that'd be a good one. 303 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.320 And then actually, I forgot one more here. I got 304 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:40.559 this Sunday on Operation GCD Patreon Sundays. I got the 305 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.480 serial killer. You have never heard of Edward Wyn Edwards. 306 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.559 So speaking of more serial killers, that's a serial killers, 307 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.559 that's a This one's a real barn burner because, as 308 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.000 I state in the title, most folks have never heard 309 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.600 of the man. He's one of the most, if not 310 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:59.559 the most diabolical serial killer in American history. So Day 311 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:01.240 Dark Ship, that's a good one. 312 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.119 That's a statement right there, JJ. 313 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.640 Absolutely so on that note, let's talk more serial killers? 314 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:16.200 Did I cut out in my back? 315 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.680 No, you're good? You want John to go first? 316 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.119 Well, I was gonna say, let's, uh, let's me bring 317 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.519 up the film first. Yeah, well we'll actually know what 318 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.279 Let's let's jump into some of John's work if you 319 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.319 don't mind on the Sun of Sam stuff. So I'm 320 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.000 sure Julia you'll be knowledgeable in some of these topics. 321 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:38.400 He's discussing here in his blog posts. Yeah, so John, 322 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:40.799 what what? What? What's been your It seems like you 323 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.079 on your blog post from from what I've read off 324 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:47.039 your recent ones, you've been highlighting the ongoing activity, right, 325 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.440 you did some of the ongoing activities here and. 326 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:58.279 Yeah, very recent uh story from Westchester County about uh 327 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:04.279 new or recent animal mutilations. Oh interesting that the one 328 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:08.160 of the New York City council women even acknowledges that, 329 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.039 you know, it's it's cults that are doing this, so 330 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:13.759 that I don't think this kind of activity ever stopped. 331 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.720 I think, I mean, it was obviously was going on 332 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.200 well before the Son of sam Era, but it continued, 333 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:23.279 you know, long after Berkowitz was arrested, and you know 334 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.680 the case was allegedly over. 335 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.240 So John, color me shock that Westchester County remains adent 336 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.880 of inequity today as god back in nineteen seventy seven. 337 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:37.920 But no, it says right here though, right like you said, 338 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.559 that these are fringe groups mutilating and killing animals, says 339 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:48.079 New York City councilwoman Joe Anne. And that's a real name, Ariola, Ariola. 340 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.119 So John, is it your opinion that this is accurate 341 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.319 or are they giving us more smoking mirrors? Like are 342 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.839 they trying to distract us, like, oh, it's you look 343 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.599 at this, look at this like you what are your 344 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:04.200 thoughts on that? 345 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.480 I think this one is because when I started to 346 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:12.160 get into like full time research, I had read another 347 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.799 story I think was actually in USA today, where similar 348 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.319 things were happening to this, like four or five years ago. 349 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.960 So it appears to be ongoing up there now you 350 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.039 know what it's attached to. Who's in charge of the 351 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:31.759 activity these days? I couldn't say, but and I've spoken 352 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.839 to people from the area, and everybody seems to sort 353 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:37.720 of be aware on some level that this kind of 354 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:42.799 stuff has always happened and continues to happen. I think 355 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.039 it is legit. Of course, there could be way worse 356 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.359 things that are happening, you know, that are behind the 357 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.759 scenes that we don't see. But at the very least, 358 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.440 this continued ritual sacrifice of animals I think indicates that 359 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.400 that basically the same practices are still being conducted in 360 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:00.960 that area. 361 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.319 Okay, I gotcha, And it's kind of never stopped if 362 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.119 you look at I mean, just from my just from 363 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.160 my take on all these matters is. Looking at some 364 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.920 of the newspaper accounts, there's records of mutilated animals throughout Westchester, Puttnam, 365 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:20.559 even Fairfield County, Connecticut, so throughout the eighties even yeah, yeah, 366 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:22.759 into the nineties. So it didn't seem like it ever 367 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.839 really stopped, right. I mean, they may shift their mode 368 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:27.559 of operations and where their locations are doing things maybe, 369 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.680 I guess right, but right, an ongoing enterprise. 370 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:34.119 Yeah, different public parks and things like that, But it's 371 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:38.559 it's it's always in areas where they seem to leave 372 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.920 some traces of evidence deliberately so that people will see 373 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.240 it and talk about it. And I think that's an 374 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.559 ongoing preoccupation of these groups. 375 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.720 Got that. So on that note, What do you think 376 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.200 they're doing that for? Is it a psychological terror campaign 377 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:57.160 to scare America? When they're leaving things behind, they could 378 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:58.839 just as easily clean it up as you just pointed out, 379 00:20:58.880 --> 00:20:59.559 And I do agree. 380 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:03.359 I think it's like Peter Strub said in the novel 381 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.400 ghost Story, they like to flaunt themselves. They like to 382 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:12.920 leave breadcrumbs. It's it's a perverse thing that I think. 383 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.039 It's like people who are flashers or something like it. 384 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.519 People just they want people to see it. You know, 385 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.559 whatever it is they're doing, I have to have an 386 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.440 audience of some type for it. 387 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.400 So it's kind of that that same kind of ego 388 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.599 driven kind of thing, right, they're trying other people look 389 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.599 at him naked. My math teacher did that in high school. 390 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.680 He forced people to do that. It was after high school, 391 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.319 but sadly he's my favorite, one of my favorite teachers 392 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.119 in high school. But he was driving around after a 393 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.720 couple years later, just getting women to pull over on 394 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.160 the local highway or whatever and then running out there 395 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:46.920 with an overcoat on, saying, you know, look at this, 396 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.640 and then you know, things happen. You know what causes it? Yeah, 397 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.839 you know, check out this ding dumb who does what 398 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:55.920 causes these activities? But these things do happen. 399 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:00.759 It is the kind of thing that it has to 400 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.000 be like a deep seated compulsion for people to do 401 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.960 it at all, because if they sat and thought about 402 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.720 it rationally, that they wouldn't be out there doing it. 403 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:14.720 But yeah, speaking of this is a nineteen eighty one movie, 404 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:20.359 and I was actually surprised how much full frontal there's 405 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:26.920 a lot in this. Yeah, it's uh, it really was it. 406 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.680 Yeah, I forgot this as an adult because I remember, 407 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.640 you know a number My son's eighteen now, but you know, 408 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.640 almost almost eighteen. But when he was about seven or so, 409 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.880 I was, you know, introducing him some films from my child, 410 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:40.480 and I totally forgot how much full front was in 411 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:43.200 the film Howard the Duck, And then I realized, I'm like, 412 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.519 it's PG right, But I realized they didn't invent PG 413 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.359 thirteen for a couple more years because there's a lot 414 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.039 of full frontal on it. There's duck on there's women 415 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.480 have banging ducks in that film. There's that's a really 416 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.119 weird film, and it's of course it's a marvel story. 417 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.400 Right best reality at its finest. 418 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:00.480 But yeah, they got a lot of They got away 419 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:01.680 with a lot of stuff in the early eighties. I 420 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:03.359 feel like in some of these films, this one had 421 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:05.480 some you know, more nudity than I thought was coming 422 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:05.720 in it. 423 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:08.839 But it is a horrible Yeah, me too, so right, Yeah, 424 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.640 you always know somebody's gonna die if their penis or 425 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:12.400 tits are out. 426 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.200 That's I was offended by the cock shot early on 427 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:17.119 in the film. I was offended by that there's no 428 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.160 need to show the man's penis falling out of the building. 429 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.880 That wasn't that. It was like a green screen thing 430 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.680 and you could see the outline as he fell. 431 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:28.079 You know. 432 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:30.640 The whole scene is just really odd looking. 433 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.640 Yeah, it's definitely kind of low budge, I would say, 434 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.000 but it's got a lot of aspects of like a 435 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.960 classic eighties horror movie. 436 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:44.480 Which and it's funny you say that it comes off 437 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.079 with a budget, doesn't it. 438 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:48.400 It does come off of a budge, it really does. 439 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.200 That surprises me because, like I don't want to get 440 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.480 ahead of ourselves here, but like the scenes where it 441 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.240 shows the uh, the woman as a skeleton and you know, 442 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.480 she's all it looks like something that you could get 443 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.680 at Spirit Halloween. 444 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:08.160 You know. 445 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:09.680 It just kind of. 446 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.599 It looked worse than that that Minnesota my control assassin 447 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.400 over the weekend, right than his master. 448 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.880 Well, yeah, but I will I don't want to get again, 449 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.519 I don't want to get too far ahead into the 450 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:26.440 movie or anything, but I will say I did enjoy 451 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.640 it because I feel like it's a story. I think 452 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.720 it's the predecessor actually to many horror movies that have 453 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.039 the same outline. I don't know if it will be 454 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.799 integral to anything John's gonna point out, but the idea 455 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:45.400 of the vengeful spirit coming back and attacking the living 456 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:51.319 and like taking them out one by one, it's repeated 457 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:55.119 throughout a lot of horror movies. This might have been 458 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:58.440 the first one that did that. I'm not sure. But 459 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000 have you you guys ever seen a horror movie called Shutter? 460 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:08.640 It was originally a Japanese horror movie that was like americanized. 461 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.680 It's God, I don't think I've ever seen it. 462 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.440 Well, it's the same concept. I would say, like movies 463 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:20.920 like Grudge, you know, where it's like the bad guys 464 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.960 killed somebody and their ghost comes back and kills them 465 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.480 off one by one kind of thing, which is what. 466 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:29.400 We have here in Ghost Story. 467 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:32.279 Huh right, Yeah, I do feel like it's an idea 468 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.720 that's been kind of like, maybe they ripped it off 469 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.839 of this movie because it's not as well known as 470 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.200 some of the more popular ones, but sure it's older 471 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.400 than them, so I'm thinking maybe they ripped it off 472 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:46.319 of this movie. 473 00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:51.039 Because you bring up some good points and I don't 474 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:53.039 want to cut you off there. But before we go 475 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.480 any further, this is gonna be the number one Halloween 476 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.240 costume of twenty twenty five, I imagine. But this was the 477 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.200 the Vance Botler guy, right. He seemed like, speaking of 478 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.960 horror stories, should just watch this guy's story of the weekend. 479 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.079 That's a horror story right there, the sigh of they 480 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:10.119 try to pass off on folks. 481 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.599 I didn't get to dive too far into it, but 482 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.200 I'm sure you've got a lot of thoughts on it. 483 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.359 It's ridiculous, Yeah, I do you talk about some of 484 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:18.759 their time. I just want to make the joke there 485 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.000 because it's a fancy boatler. I think that name is ridiculous, 486 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.519 and I think that mask is ridiculous, just as ridiculous 487 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:25.920 as the horror mask you're talking about from Ghost Story, 488 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.480 you know what I mean. So you know, as far 489 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.480 as a low budget where the money went, I imagined 490 00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:33.400 it was all cocin hookers. But that's my opinion. 491 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.480 Well, you know, didn't Poltergeist come out in the eighties 492 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:38.680 or am I wrong? 493 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:39.319 Yeah? 494 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:43.920 Think think of all the freaking special effects they put 495 00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.720 into Poltergeist. You know, it just didn't seem like it 496 00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:49.839 was upper echelon type of. 497 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:52.559 Make up. 498 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:54.640 What's what I'm saying, you know, you got to you 499 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.880 gotta look at the Fred Astare situation, and you know 500 00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:59.960 he's got a large large amount of money's probably deadic 501 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.799 his you know, line his budget line item of cocon 502 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:08.119 hoookers just for himself, right and I and I'm and 503 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:09.960 on that note, before we go any further here on 504 00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.759 John's blogs, we will go over these characters, the folk, 505 00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:15.440 the actors in the film, because there's some interest in 506 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:20.039 folks there. But yeah, Johnny, you were also recovering the 507 00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.559 mystery of the mcnuts. What's that's some more recent one 508 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.720 of your since we last talk. That's your more the 509 00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:25.519 most recent one. 510 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.440 Yeah, I was. I was really interested in that story 511 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:32.039 that I think we've talked a little bit about. Jesse 512 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.720 Turner and other Yea or Mickey Rose, the name that 513 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.480 Morey used to refer to. I don't know where the 514 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.920 name came from. I don't know if that's the name 515 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:45.720 that Turner used for himself, but he you know, he 516 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:50.000 lived with the Process in New Orleans, and he recalled 517 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:56.680 an incident where a fellow Process member was hung up 518 00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:59.119 it sounds like on a wall or something, but but 519 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:04.160 tied up and bled to death. And the person who 520 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.319 did it was this person he refers to as Adam McNutt, 521 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:15.200 and Adam's wife apparently was named Karen, and uh, it's 522 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.519 it's a gruesome Morey referred to this just very very 523 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.920 briefly in the epilogue of the expanded edition of his. 524 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.200 Book that yeah, I'm not hip. I'm not hip to 525 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:26.599 this at all. 526 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.559 But I'm not hip to this either. 527 00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:32.119 I'm very what years we talking here, this crucifixion situation. 528 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.160 This was in the early seventies when when Turner lived 529 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.960 with the Process in the French Quarter, they had a 530 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:45.359 house there, and he said that he witnessed this murder 531 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:50.960 and then the Adam and Karen, the mcnutts took the 532 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.799 body away in a car. He never saw Karen again, 533 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:59.039 but then he Jesse Turner evidently travels west with Adam 534 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.799 after this is all over with and they go to 535 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:08.759 try to set up headquarters for the Process in other areas. 536 00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:09.640 In the United States. 537 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:14.480 Yeah. Yeah, so it's in the files that we have. 538 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.400 He doesn't really elaborate on the incident very much, but 539 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:23.119 it is this is publicly available information now and I've 540 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.319 searched and searched in Vain for any trace of Adam 541 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.240 and Karen McNutt, So I'm guessing that those probably weren't 542 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.519 their real names. But just the fact that the incident, 543 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.319 you know, the way the incident is described is it 544 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.400 seems pretty significant to me because I would guess that 545 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.920 the process didn't do this on only one occasion. I 546 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:48.039 think this probably happened a lot. We get some pretty 547 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:53.119 spooky accounts of well you like Peter Straub wrote about 548 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.759 a New Orleans incident in the novel Ghost Story, which 549 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.319 didn't make it into the film unfortunately, but that that's 550 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.759 part of what I cover in that substag. 551 00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.480 So what you know, and I'll kind of put a 552 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.279 pin in that. But I am interested in your analysis 553 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:09.759 because I didn't read the book, but I'm interested in 554 00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.200 your analysis and what was included in what was not 555 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.480 included there. But it's interesting about the mcnuts I often 556 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.319 look into that myself. Is after reading your article, it's 557 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:19.240 the first I heard of it. 558 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.960 Yeah, it's really It's one of those things that when 559 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.240 when we got the files that it jumped out at me. 560 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.319 But a lot all of the Mickey Rose slash Jesse 561 00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.960 Turner files are really interesting because he knew firsthand about 562 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.039 this process stuff, and then later in New York he 563 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:41.720 became friends with Michael Carr. But yeah, I would recommend 564 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.920 everybody go and read the files at the people versus 565 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.319 David Berklewitz dot com. 566 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.279 And I'll get a link in their description for that too. 567 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:52.720 So it's interesting you said that he knew about details 568 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:54.440 of the cult. And again, that's what's most telling to 569 00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:58.599 me about tonight's movie review is Peter Strob when he 570 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.160 wrote that book clearly new Detai tales of this could activity. 571 00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:03.839 I mean wrote that nineteen seventy eight, right, because which 572 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.240 was arrested in August tenth or seventy seven, and Stroub 573 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.559 publishes this in January first of seventy nine, so you know, 574 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.160 less than eighteen months. 575 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.839 That's right. And I think that's what's so important about 576 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.319 the novel, And wasn't a lot of other Straub's work too, 577 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.039 because there are references to this stuff sprinkled throughout virtually 578 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:23.839 every book he ever wrote, you know, right up to 579 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:29.480 the end. But he what's so important about it is 580 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:36.440 it's an entirely separate confirmation that this cult activity actually happened. 581 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.279 It's a totally separate confirmation of the existence of the 582 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.400 Anker's Cult, because as far as we know, Stroud never 583 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.759 had any contact with Maury Terry. And this novel was 584 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.759 published long long before Maury wrote The Ultimate Evil. He 585 00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.599 was just putting his work together in a few newspaper 586 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:57.799 articles at that time. So just as Maury was really 587 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:04.799 getting into writing about this stuff in newspaper form, Stroud 588 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:08.440 had already published an entire novel that just page after 589 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:16.039 page references members of the cult, Westchester place names, other 590 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.160 place names that were connected to the cult and its membership. 591 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.039 It's really spooky because yes, Stroub clearly had a first 592 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:25.640 hand source for all this stuff, and really I think 593 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:29.160 the only question is who was his source. But it's 594 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.880 it's very it's very disturbing when you when you start 595 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.079 to you know, the references really pile up after a while. 596 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.480 Do you think he was involved in Nicole himself? 597 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:44.480 I want you know where. I think that there's at 598 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:46.519 least one clue to where he might have found out 599 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.279 about this. He dedicates the novel to a couple of 600 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:58.440 different people. What are their names here? Valley shioh s 601 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:04.680 h a Io and Gregorio Cahoone those were they? They 602 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.000 weren't married at the time, but they married later. They're 603 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:14.200 both psychotherapists, but they're both Tavistock already laying alumni. The 604 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.680 fact that, yeah, the fact that he doesn't know, yeah, 605 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.240 that seems to provide a clue as to where he 606 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:27.079 might have obtained some of this information book though he's like, 607 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:31.359 it feels that way, Unfortunately I can't. 608 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.799 He dedicated this book to the Tavistock to. 609 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.680 Two Tavistock alumni, yeah, Gregoria Cahoon and Valley Shio. And 610 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.640 he named his daughter Emma. One of her middle names 611 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.559 is Valley, So he apparently these folks were good enough 612 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:49.079 friends with with him and his family that that he 613 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.799 named his daughter after Valley Shio. So it gives you 614 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.759 something to think about. 615 00:33:54.839 --> 00:34:00.359 Yeah, you've located the epicenter of activity between Peters Strobe 616 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.519 and the processed church cold activity via the town. 617 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.160 No wonder if his books are full of shit? 618 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.400 What? Well? I hated to find it out because I 619 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:11.079 love his books. I mean, he there's no writer I 620 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:14.239 love more than I mean. He was a brilliant storyteller, 621 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:19.760 just an amazing writer. So I almost found it upsetting 622 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.159 when I always knew there was something about ghost story 623 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.400 because all these links just kind of pop up at you. 624 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.119 But but to the extent that it is, especially in 625 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.199 that book, it really does, once you sit down to 626 00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.199 think about it, it really is. It's disturbing. 627 00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.719 Well, there's no music I love more than the Laurel 628 00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:37.880 Canyon scene. 629 00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:40.760 It's the same way with that. It's just like so 630 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:42.400 much of what you listen to and read you look 631 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.599 at it and say, oh my god, all this stuff 632 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:49.039 is connected to this, these horrible programs. But but yeah, 633 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.199 the links, unfortunately, there. 634 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:53.719 Are spot on. I got a couple. I got a 635 00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:56.039 couple of things on Gradually. 636 00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:58.920 I said, who doesn't love the Beatles? Their Tavistock. 637 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:02.960 I wasn't gonna say the Beatles, but you were close 638 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.599 because I was gonna say Rolling Stones. I got a 639 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.760 couple of details on Deckford Tonight's tale that include these 640 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.960 some of these bands like like the Stones, right, the 641 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.639 Process and Stones, or the Processing and Beatles for that matter, 642 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:16.519 or the British Invasion. What what really was that British invasion? Right? 643 00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.559 Right? Well? Yeah, yeah, particularly with the Beatles because that 644 00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.000 that was the one that that was their flagship group. 645 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.840 Yeah, so I agree because you got Jane Asher, who's 646 00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:35.920 Paul McCartney's girlfriend and her brother is confirmed member and 647 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.440 owner of the in a good coffee shop there in 648 00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.280 the Mayfair district of London where the Beatles are convening, 649 00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.559 and John mutioco And it's funny because Peter Asher goes 650 00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.360 on to be a major Hollywood music producer involved in 651 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:54.639 the Diddy scandal, just saying, and their cousin, their first 652 00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:58.199 cousin is I believe she's still alive there at the 653 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:03.199 uh the processed Mothership and canob you she's a founder member. 654 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.639 So do you feel like they put aspects of like 655 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.920 the important aspects from the book into the movie because 656 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:17.400 there I did have a few questions about one or 657 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:19.480 two things I picked up on from the movie. But 658 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:21.679 do you feel like they left some of it out? 659 00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.199 I think Madgie's interrojectal quick, Julie cau we put a 660 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.719 pen in that real quick. That's one we'll get. We'll 661 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:28.960 do the story here one second. I's want to close 662 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.119 out these one more blog. 663 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.280 Entry with John if you don't know, okay, sure, sure. 664 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.400 So relative to this entry, John and I think that 665 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.920 I think I found most intriguing, is my opinion. The 666 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.480 first investigator into the process was Jim Garrison, the New 667 00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:43.719 Orleans District Attorney, based on his own you know, work 668 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:45.760 and whatnot. When you're saying this, that stuff with the 669 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.920 mcnut situation was popping off from the early seventies. He 670 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.960 was running office in seventy three there in New Orleans. 671 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:53.960 So I think that's an interesting time for him to 672 00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:56.440 look at around those activities in that, you know, relative 673 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.559 to your McNutt mystery. You know, I think there is 674 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.840 some other activities going on in New Ones that may 675 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.519 in fact be uh, you know, interesting things to uncover. 676 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.199 Absolutely, there was a lot happening down there, and things 677 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:09.519 were happening in Yonkers at the same time. A lot 678 00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:10.920 of children were disappearing. 679 00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:16.039 So yeah, very interesting. So the quick quick highlight of 680 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.239 we can on these before we do the film review, John, 681 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:21.039 the true scope of this understand, What what do you 682 00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:22.280 mean by the true scope? 683 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:27.079 Yeah, well that's that's Walter Brown's mugshot or Ace Brown, 684 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:31.840 the notorious Yonkers and he A lot of what we 685 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.880 know about these other aspects of the case comes from 686 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.719 Walter and he he knew all these other people, He 687 00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:45.400 knew Sue Conway and all these important uh uh you know, 688 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.199 major figures in the Yonkers cult. 689 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:50.119 And if I may, he also knew a lot of 690 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:53.480 other folks, like he connects to the Dean Coral situation. 691 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.000 But I'm not mistaken, right right, Julia, do you familiar 692 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:04.159 with that? I'm not. Uh what's Coral? H Yeah? But 693 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:05.480 what's the guy in between those two? 694 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.360 Philip Pasky? 695 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:09.760 Yeah, Norton maybe what's his name? 696 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:13.280 Oh, you're talking about the guy with the peto island 697 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.519 Norman Norman? 698 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.360 Well yeah, so well, Norman's associates with I think Gaysey 699 00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:20.079 and Coral, if I'm. 700 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.360 Not mistaken, and also John Norman. 701 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.880 Yeah, look at in a minute, and I don't want 702 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.119 to get too diverted, but this dude is connected to 703 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:28.519 a lot of stuff, is he not? He was connected 704 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.079 to a different pedo network. 705 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.760 Right, Yeah, yep. It was uh a network coming out 706 00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.119 of Dallas that they were all connected to. 707 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.760 That moved to Chicago, right, because Norman moved to Dallas 708 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.719 then goes He's like the next day he's got a 709 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.599 whole new ten thousand note cards full of customers and 710 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.800 clients in this Chicago. 711 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.000 That is correct, Yep, that is correct. 712 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.920 So I apologize there the distracted there, John, if you 713 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.519 if you may continue on about your uh, you're a 714 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.440 blog post. You're aboudyes, Brown, because he is a very 715 00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.559 important character. 716 00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:02.239 Is he not? Yeah, he was. He It was when 717 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.840 Maury typed up what he called his flipper list when 718 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.199 Yonkers had sort of uneasily reopened the case in the 719 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:12.519 mid nineties. The people that Maury felt they needed to 720 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:16.000 flip to get the case to a grand jury were well, 721 00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.559 Ace Brown was number one, Sue Conway was number two. 722 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.239 She's my sort of pet suspect. I'm fascinated by her. 723 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:25.840 I've done a lot of research on her. And then 724 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:29.960 so many other people that were associated with the Yonkers 725 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.559 cult even before the Process came into the picture, they 726 00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:34.679 were on that list too. 727 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.880 And well, so this was you're saying, this was a 728 00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:41.159 you know, like a pre existing operation that the Process 729 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.760 kind of co opted then. 730 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.360 Right, right, Yeah, the Yonker's cult had been there for 731 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:49.400 many years and they apparently, well, the Process started to 732 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:51.960 call the shots in the late sixties or early seventies. 733 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.840 And so by the early seventies when all these kids 734 00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.239 are starting to disappear, primarily from the Graham School and 735 00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.079 orphanage in Hastings, which is a a neighboring town. Uh, 736 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.800 it's it's the process. Who's controlling the action by that time. 737 00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:08.840 Yeah, so they were if I if I'm here, you 738 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:11.880 aprently they were after orphans. 739 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.559 Yeah, yeah, they've from what John Carr told Paul Raine Eerie, 740 00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.800 they took a lot of children from the Gram School 741 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:24.800 because they were orphans and they John's rationale for the 742 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.480 cult doing that was that the kids wouldn't be missed. 743 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.280 Nobody really tried to keep track of them, even the 744 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.360 school didn't try to find out what had happened to 745 00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:34.199 the kids. 746 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:39.239 Much like the Franklin scandal. Yeah, with the boys town. 747 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:42.719 It's like that. Yeah, just convenient disappearances of kids that 748 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.760 nobody really cares about it is trying to take care 749 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:48.559 of it. It's it's really it's sad behavior. 750 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:53.679 Right, Yeah, what's that? What's that? 751 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.159 Julia I said they love orphanages. 752 00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:58.039 Yeah it's true. 753 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.840 Oh well yeah, it's lack of accountability, right, one's paying attention. 754 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.119 So I like that you've quote, you've highlighted this. So 755 00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:07.079 like this Brown said in December of nineteen ninety six. 756 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.639 It's a direct quotation from Maury's files. Ace Brown said, 757 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.880 I was told kids were buried there, referring to Untramer 758 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.320 Park and Yonkers. And he's not the only person to 759 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:16.840 say that, is he. 760 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:21.840 That's right. Multiple witnesses or sources told police the same thing. 761 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.440 Sue Conway said that too. She said she heard that 762 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.159 kids were buried there. I would imagine she presided over 763 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.159 at least some of those sacrifices and burials firsthand, because 764 00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:36.559 that's the kind of person she was. 765 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.079 But yeah, Conway, yeah, yeah, And. 766 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:42.679 Multiple sources told the police that same thing, that children 767 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.960 had been sacrificed in rituals and then buried in the park. 768 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.079 That's true. 769 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:51.119 Interesting, And Sue Conway met in early demise, right, well, no, 770 00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:53.519 she oh that's the one that that's when they died 771 00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.920 of cancer. Always I always play a guessing game with you, John, 772 00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:56.960 Who's who's a lie? 773 00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.679 She was? Yeah, yeah, she Sue. She was apparently was 774 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.400 very ill in the years leading up to her death. 775 00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:05.480 But she had she had lived really hard. You know, 776 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.360 a lot of a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol. 777 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:13.039 But she two thousand or early two, I forget what 778 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:17.239 I think it was January of two thousand and uh. Yeah. 779 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:21.079 She was something else, she really is. She's kind of 780 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:22.440 a movie under herself. 781 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:25.239 So let me ask you all this. This is John 782 00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.760 David David Norman, the the Deadler Fellow operation from Dallas 783 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:31.760 to Chicago, who's a saysion with Phil Pasky, who worked 784 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.000 for John Wayne Gacy and Ace Brown apparently ties into 785 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.480 Norman from my understanding as well, and there and that 786 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.559 they have links. And isn't it interesting that John Mnieri 787 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.880 would know uh, would would be familiar with uh Jeffrey Dahmer, 788 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.639 and Dahmer and Gasey both had uh you know uh 789 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.960 uh recruited their victims from the same gay club. What 790 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.320 is this weird? You see these weird epicenters of act. 791 00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:56.880 I mean, it's a lot of details. I understand a 792 00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.760 lot of Ann's couple what have you. But it seems 793 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:01.360 like all these people know each other and I know 794 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:02.880 what they say. We don't know each other, but it 795 00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:03.800 seems like all these. 796 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:07.119 They're part of a network. I'm just telling John that 797 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.639 before we got started today that all of these assholes 798 00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.440 are part of a network and there's multiple assailants they 799 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:17.639 but all the crimes get blamed on one guy. He's 800 00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:21.079 like the scapegoat guy. But there are there are so 801 00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.320 many people who are getting away with it, and then 802 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.119 their crimes just get attributed to Let's say one John 803 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.960 Wayne Gase, you are one Dean Coral, one Jeffrey Dahmer. 804 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:37.519 But there are several weirdo kid diddling, pedophilic, cannibalistic serial 805 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.960 killers amongst us, and most of the time we don't 806 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:42.039 even know who they are. 807 00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:44.320 You ain't kid, and Julia, you ain't kidding. 808 00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:46.840 Yep, It's true, and there has to be a network. 809 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:48.559 It just doesn't make sense any other way. 810 00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.480 One hundred yeah, yeah, And you know. 811 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.760 I feel like a network that may be like covered 812 00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.880 up under the auspices of national security. 813 00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:01.760 Absolutely absolutely, because then the the ben Rose case, the 814 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:05.519 CIA pleaded national security they we don't have to testify 815 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.639 before this committee, so that was the. 816 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.639 End of them, you know, And how is that any 817 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.880 different than the current Epstein situation with matters of national security? 818 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:15.840 Right right, right? 819 00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:19.840 Oh my gosh. I can't even tell you how much 820 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:21.800 I love being on a panel with people who know 821 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.559 what the fact they're talking about. 822 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:27.480 Well, you're you know, you're always welcome here in operations 823 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.039 GCD and John is as well. So I appreciate both 824 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:32.239 your all time and and the folks of Innerwebs, and 825 00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:34.440 I got one more. We'll close out actually with the 826 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.400 death Mask Murder if you don't mind, John will just 827 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:41.239 jump into the ghost story right because you did this 828 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.480 blog post, which is what motivated me to You brought it. 829 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.079 You brought these things in my attention to be a 830 00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:48.840 conversation and this blog post, and it might have even 831 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.119 me to put this panel together tonight and to watch 832 00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:53.280 the film. And I do appreciate you, sir, because I 833 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.800 did enjoy the film. I didn't wasn't like again, it's 834 00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:59.039 not really my genre, so you know, I didn't expect 835 00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.800 you to enjoy it as much as I it. 836 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.480 It's interesting because there are some things in there that 837 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:11.079 that are important items from the book that did make 838 00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:12.079 it into the movie. 839 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:14.440 There you go, let's start there, because I know Julia 840 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:15.559 had those same questions for you. 841 00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:25.679 Yeah, yeah, What did survive were the strangeness of the 842 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:29.239 villain or the villain s who is played by Alice Kreese. 843 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.400 I think she's the single best part of the movie 844 00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:38.639 because all the strange stuff that happens in the book, 845 00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:44.400 the really creepy stuff Alice Kreese transmits through her performance. 846 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:46.760 I don't know if she ever actually read the book, 847 00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:50.719 but she's she's the thing in the in the film 848 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:54.880 that is most like the novel, So she's her performance 849 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:55.920 is really interesting. 850 00:45:58.039 --> 00:45:59.599 So that's interesting they would leave that out of the book. 851 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:03.039 That's a great comment there. Appreciate that their costs. The 852 00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:06.719 fuzz One was another party who witnessed these activities, and 853 00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:10.679 that's right, another independent you know, recollection and accounts of 854 00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:16.000 these same uh, murderous and ritualistic activities of things being thanks, 855 00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:19.199 people being buried in around these parks. 856 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:26.840 Right right, that's right, And I the testimony is really overwhelmed. 857 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:32.519 I mean, something happened in Undermark Park. People were killed there, 858 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:38.119 People died in that park, and the only thing that 859 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:41.960 that stopped the investigation was the fact that the police 860 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:46.119 and Yonkers evidently felt that an investigation would lead right 861 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:48.519 back to their doorstep, and they were worried about their 862 00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:52.480 own skins, so they shut down the investigation. 863 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.000 So it does remind me also of the Finders, because 864 00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:02.079 they were spotted numerous times in parks, taking kids, kids 865 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:06.920 in vans, kids being transported god knows where. 866 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:11.199 But also well, Julia, those are matters of national security. 867 00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:19.199 Right, Yeah, the Finders well too. John's point about Alice 868 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:21.719 Kreeg is that how you say her last name. 869 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.599 I've heard it pronounce Creege, but then I've heard it 870 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:27.960 Prereese various ways, so I'm never sure which one is. 871 00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:31.119 I just settled on one, but it may not be 872 00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:31.960 the correct one. 873 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.159 She's awesome in this movie. I would agree with you. 874 00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:39.119 She's the creepiest aspect of the entire movie. She's She's 875 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:42.440 actually in several horror movies. I think that's just her genre. 876 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:46.039 She's most recently in a couple of Star Trek movies, 877 00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:52.599 I think. But so, she was super hot in this movie, 878 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:57.920 proverbial hot eighties chick in this movie. But there was 879 00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:02.360 like this weird I don't know if it was like 880 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.719 this in the book, but she almost seemed like a 881 00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:11.599 witch or something throughout the Yeah, And. 882 00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:15.880 That's what's so great about her performance, because it you 883 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:19.760 get the now in the book, the character that she 884 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:23.880 plays in the film, she's much more than just a 885 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.639 person who has been reincarnated or whatever. She has a history, 886 00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:30.840 and she has it with these old men in the 887 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.519 chatter society, and they never come right out and say 888 00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:39.039 that there's an additional history in the film, but just 889 00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:43.119 the subtlety of her performance gives you the impression that 890 00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:46.119 there's more history there. Like that scene where she's holding 891 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:48.119 her head under the water in the back. It's just 892 00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.440 so weird. And that's so much like the character in 893 00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:54.760 the book, you know, just inexplicably odd and like to 894 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.320 the point where the boyfriend is like his nerves are 895 00:48:57.559 --> 00:48:59.840 so shaky that he just he almost can't be in 896 00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:01.119 this room with her anymore. 897 00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:05.679 Yeah, gives you the creeps. And he said, like, you know, 898 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.199 just touch her, even her skin feels cold. You know, 899 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:15.000 there's just like this weird witch witchy thing yes about her. 900 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:17.719 Absolutely, And so was. 901 00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:21.760 That not in the go ahead? Was that was that great? 902 00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:22.320 Go ahead? 903 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.320 Oh? I was just gonna say that is she fortunately 904 00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:30.559 or unfortunately that character had a real life counterpart, And that. 905 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:33.119 Was That's what I was gonna ask you. 906 00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:37.199 That's what's so spooky. And you find that there's a 907 00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:41.039 photo comparison of Sue from its two photos a decade apart. 908 00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:44.079 But you see in the latter photo of Sue with 909 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.920 the long brown hair, I think you see a lot 910 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:52.239 of Eva Galley, Alma Mobile and a mosstin in that 911 00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.320 photo of her and In fact, even in the book, 912 00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:58.599 physically that character, the description of her is obviously modeled 913 00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.840 on Sue Conway. I think Stroud must have met her 914 00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:05.639 at some point, but I can't confirm that. But he 915 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.840 definitely saw photos over her and she was. She was 916 00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:13.440 the model for Eva almah Anna in the book and 917 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:14.719 the film. 918 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:18.719 Do you think the real right she? 919 00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:20.639 Yeah, the picture of her is there. 920 00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.840 I was just gonna say, do you think the real 921 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.920 person to Conway? You think she's a witch? You think 922 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:30.679 she's sent to some dark ship? 923 00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:32.719 She was? Yeah, she was. 924 00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:33.119 She was. 925 00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:38.440 There was a source who when Maury did an Unsolved 926 00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:41.039 Mystery segment about the Son of Sam back in the 927 00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:47.079 late eighties, a source called the Unsolved Mysteries UH hotline 928 00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:50.440 thereafter and referred to her as he said, I knew 929 00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:53.679 people who knew her. She literally was the high priestess 930 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.280 of the cult. That's what they called her. So she Yeah, 931 00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.679 she was. She was actually into all that stuff, and 932 00:50:58.719 --> 00:50:59.719 she was serious about it. 933 00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:03.440 She I knew it, dude, I knew it. Just the 934 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:07.360 way that they portrayed her in the movie. There was 935 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.840 like some weird witchy thing about her. 936 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:13.639 Yeah, because there's like a mind control aspect too, right 937 00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:15.559 with the two right before, I don't want to go 938 00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:17.079 too far, and before we get to all the characters. 939 00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:19.480 There's a mind she's got some sort of spell over 940 00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.320 some some some hood rats, right, that's right, that's right, 941 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:26.679 some hoodlums, you will. 942 00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.360 And there she is that that second photo, I believe 943 00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:33.000 you a lot of what's strange about that character in 944 00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:35.719 the book, in the film, you see in Sue's photo. 945 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.760 There she she she really was something else. She was. 946 00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:41.679 She made an impression on a lot of people. 947 00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:45.360 I agree, the resemblance is uncanny from the film. 948 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:51.519 Yeah, well, she I think I think one of the 949 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.159 things they did look for in the film when they 950 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:55.960 were auditioning people for the role of Eva of Almah 951 00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:59.559 was somebody with that long, straight hair. Somehow that is 952 00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:03.719 into to the whole character. Uh. If you had had 953 00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.639 somebody with shorter hair or something, it wouldn't have worked 954 00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:11.320 for whatever reason. It's that kind of hair just goes 955 00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.559 with all the other aspects of the character for for 956 00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:14.320 whatever reason. 957 00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:19.039 I also film she has the eyes, like look at 958 00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:19.519 the eyes. 959 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:24.880 Yeah, well, I was gonna say it's and it's the 960 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.039 same color eyes. I mean, they're the same kind of 961 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:28.880 they have the same shape if you will. 962 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:32.360 Yeah, right, Yeah, there's something about the eyes too. It's 963 00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.280 like they picked her because she could. She can almost 964 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.119 put you in a trance just looking at her, you know. 965 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:38.400 What I mean. 966 00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:43.119 I think she did, man, I think she did. Yeah, 967 00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:46.000 that's intriguing. So let's do a quick since we're going 968 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:48.599 over kind of the characters, let's go back and revisit 969 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:52.280 the storyline we're dealing with here. Would you like to 970 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:55.280 to explain to the synopsis? And and uh, you know, 971 00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:57.719 however you see it, they're they're gentleman. You like me 972 00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:00.199 to read it from the Wikipedia, the source of all 973 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:01.559 information on the interwebs. 974 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:07.920 Sure, I can, I can snap size it just briefly. Sure. 975 00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:13.840 In the novel, it's a fictional, allegedly fictional town called Milburn. 976 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:17.440 It's supposed to be in upstate New York. In the film, 977 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:20.159 if if I remember correctly, they don't actually name the city, 978 00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.840 but it was filmed in Vermont somewhere. 979 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.440 What I believe is from from my understanding, what's like 980 00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:29.119 one of the locations, one of them. 981 00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.480 And there was a real town square that they used. 982 00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.199 But a lot of the backgrounds you see are just 983 00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:35.920 like really elaborate matte paintings, which is another thing that 984 00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:39.559 I really like about the movie, really really beautiful backgrounds. 985 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:42.480 I forget who the painter was, and I'm sorry about 986 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.800 that because he deserves a lot of credit. But uh, 987 00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:50.199 the the town is it's supposed to be like a 988 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:53.519 little sleepy small town, you know. And there there's a 989 00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:59.159 group of older men, affluent men. A couple of attorneys. 990 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:04.599 That's Sears James and Ricky Hawthorne. There's a doctor or 991 00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:08.440 is he I think he's he's thinking about retirement, but 992 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.199 he's he's technically still in business. That's doctor John Jeffrey. 993 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.559 And there's the mayor of the town. And this is 994 00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:17.079 slightly different because in the book there were five characters 995 00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.039 and in the film there are four characters. So they 996 00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:23.360 rolled two of the characters into one another. And the 997 00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:29.400 mayor is that's Douglas Fairbanks character. He's he's ned right, 998 00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:33.079 that's uh uh, and and I believe he's he's the 999 00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:35.760 first one to go in the film. But these men 1000 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:41.039 all share ghost stories with each other. They get together 1001 00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:46.159 in formal eveningwear one Friday night out of every month, 1002 00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:48.760 and they they tell each other ghost stories. But they're 1003 00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:53.440 doing this to cover the real story that they're actually 1004 00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:55.360 afraid of and that they're afraid to talk about with 1005 00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:59.480 each other. And that story unfolds gradually, you know, throughout 1006 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:03.199 the course of the film. But they they all share 1007 00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:06.239 a terrible secret, something that happened to them all one 1008 00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:08.679 evening when they were very young in the late nineteen twenties. 1009 00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:12.519 And that's uh, that event comes back to haunt them 1010 00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:14.960 and that's that's what the book and the film are about. 1011 00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:19.400 Yeah, and it's like it's got an interesting dynamico. That's 1012 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.960 a good explanation, I sir, I appreciate it. 1013 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:21.760 That's sure. 1014 00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:23.800 That One of the things I found interesting was this 1015 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.280 this towing between reality. What is reality and what is 1016 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:31.119 not reality? Like what's hallucination? Right, and what's causing these 1017 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:33.159 dusts and what's not called Like is it an external 1018 00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:35.239 force or is an internal force? In their nightmares of 1019 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:36.039 their heart attacks? 1020 00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:38.079 Right right? Right? 1021 00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:40.599 Tows that line pretty well. 1022 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:44.960 It does, it does, because that that's uh, I believe 1023 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:48.400 in In the book and the film, somebody sees the 1024 00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:53.480 first casualty jumping off the bridge, so uh, and then 1025 00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:55.679 another one later dies of a heart attack. So there 1026 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.159 are things that could be chalked up to just mental 1027 00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:03.679 distress or physical illness, and nobody really suspects what's actually happening. 1028 00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:07.559 Yeah, so the film starts off. That's a good, good 1029 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:09.480 point there, And the film starts off with the first 1030 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:11.159 death we get there is the son of one of 1031 00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:15.440 these characters, right, that's right, that's right, and we're forced 1032 00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:18.199 to see his dick because he's falling out a building. Terrible. 1033 00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:21.679 Yeah, yeah, and that's an odd. 1034 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:24.280 I wasn't expecting the full dick shot. I was kind 1035 00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:26.679 of again angry that I was subjected to this, especially 1036 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:28.760 with that woman. 1037 00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:31.880 You know, yeah, that that is probably the weirdest shot 1038 00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:33.840 in the whole movie, just because you're not expecting it. 1039 00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:37.039 There's no reason, there's no point in it right in there, 1040 00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.880 but yeah, yeah, it's pointless. And then they show the 1041 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:41.679 body flop. I'm like, well, did we have to do 1042 00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:43.079 the flop too? Like the bounce? 1043 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:43.920 Right? 1044 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:45.199 Yeah? 1045 00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.920 Yeah, I guess it was one of those moments that 1046 00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:50.480 they just wanted it to be a you know, a 1047 00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:52.239 deliberate shock to the audience. 1048 00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.119 You know, well that there you go and say, and 1049 00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:56.920 it does too. It grasped your attention because of that 1050 00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:59.119 that shock factor. For sure. It got me good and 1051 00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.280 I'm like, wh mother fuckers, did you guys just show 1052 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:03.159 me a dick and a dude bouncing off the pavement? 1053 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:08.480 What's wrong with you? That was my immediate reaction. I 1054 00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:10.920 was like, how processing of you folks to do that? Right? 1055 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:14.199 Yeah? Well that that definitely is the point in the 1056 00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:16.760 movie where you know that really terrible things are going 1057 00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:21.400 to happen throughout the rest of it. So yeah, it 1058 00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:21.840 does have that. 1059 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:25.480 It does set the stage properly correct. Yeah, yeah, so 1060 00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:28.079 I'm now that'll be related the groundwork there on the 1061 00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:30.000 plot line. I just want to I just want to 1062 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:31.920 ask you this one question before we go any further 1063 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:34.519 in the characters and whatnot and how this thing's unfold. 1064 00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:39.599 There was a nineteen seventy four film also name Ghost Story. 1065 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:42.840 Mm hmm, Storry Maryanne Faithful. 1066 00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:46.320 That's interesting. I'm not familiar with it. 1067 00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:48.639 But is it the same story? 1068 00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.199 No, it's not the same story, but it's interesting. There's 1069 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:53.960 some interesting aspects to it, not the least of which 1070 00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:55.119 Marianne Faithful. 1071 00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:59.079 She's process Yeah, she. 1072 00:57:59.079 --> 00:58:02.280 And Mick Jagger both and all the growing stones. In fact, 1073 00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:05.599 John and I discussed an interesting murder surrounding these these 1074 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.320 folks in Westchester County, you know that den of iniquity 1075 00:58:08.679 --> 00:58:12.119 north of New York City. Last time we discussed this 1076 00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:14.639 because we discussed the the and John will have more 1077 00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.880 details for a Julia. Is that but it's the Keith 1078 00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:20.679 Richards domestic wife or girlfriend related murder, right John. 1079 00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:25.199 That's right? Yeah, Anita Pallenberg. Yeah, but all those folks 1080 00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:27.840 they did the process that they were just like the 1081 00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:33.239 father Church Scientology. They courted celebrities and uh uh you 1082 00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:37.199 know the process. They went after the younger, hipper versions 1083 00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:41.320 of celebrities that, you know, just just like the Scientology 1084 00:58:41.360 --> 00:58:44.920 did you know, more established, you know, like yeah, room 1085 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:48.440 stars and stuff. But yeah, and Marianne Faithful in particular, 1086 00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:51.400 I believe she she got pretty cozy with with the 1087 00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:52.719 processed Church, I believe. 1088 00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:53.840 Mmmm. 1089 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:56.079 Yeah. 1090 00:58:56.360 --> 00:59:01.199 And then Keith Richards's wife there murdered a fifteen I'm sorry, 1091 00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.239 a gun went off when she was in bed naked 1092 00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:04.519 with a fifteen year old, Is that right? 1093 00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:06.880 That is correct? Yeah, he was in her bed and 1094 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:12.079 his name was Scott Cantrell and he she she got 1095 00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:16.320 off for that whole thing very very easily. And I 1096 00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:20.679 know that that the boys family were very upset about that. 1097 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.840 But it was a very strange incident for sure. 1098 00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:29.360 Dude, a gun went off accidentally. Is that the story? 1099 00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:31.480 Yeah? Well, she claims that he was he was playing 1100 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.519 Russian Roulette, that he was upset and suicidal, and that he, 1101 00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:36.960 you know, just the gun went off and he shot himself. 1102 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:42.320 But it doesn't appear that the circumstances were ever examined 1103 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:44.280 too closely in court to me anyway. 1104 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:48.679 Sure. Wow, and this was nineteen eighty, seventy nine or 1105 00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:53.719 eighty or something like that. Yeah, that's right, yep. So 1106 00:59:53.800 --> 00:59:56.199 after after Burka, which so this is again this falls 1107 00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:59.480 into the post son of Sam called activity in around 1108 00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:01.559 that din An equity, Westchester County. 1109 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:02.440 That's right. 1110 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:07.320 Yeah, Sue. Do you think this secret society as they 1111 01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:12.320 call it quote unquote in the book Slash movie is 1112 01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:16.679 based on anything real because they call themselves the Chowder 1113 01:00:17.480 --> 01:00:18.679 Society like. 1114 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:22.360 They just about that. Because there were there was a 1115 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.400 group of allegedly in the cult during the fifties and sixties. 1116 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.920 There were a lot of figures of that type involved 1117 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.679 in the cult. There were doctors and attorneys and judges, 1118 01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:38.119 and so it could refer loosely to some of those individuals. 1119 01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:42.440 We know the names of some of them. And when 1120 01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:44.800 he was writing the Chowter Society yet it could have 1121 01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:48.480 referred to some of those established community members. I think 1122 01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:49.360 that's very likely. 1123 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:54.559 Yeah, you'll recognize one of those names, Julia Carlton gadget 1124 01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:56.519 say you know that one? 1125 01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:58.719 Now, who's this asshole? 1126 01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:02.159 Oh? John, please let her know who Anthony Fauci's Ssydekick 1127 01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:05.480 carl T. Gadgertik was relative to the Ankers Cold Yeah. 1128 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:09.039 He well, he he won a Nobel Prize for medicine, 1129 01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:14.000 uh in nineteen seventy six, something like that. And he 1130 01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.440 was born in Yonkers, but spent a lot of time 1131 01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:22.519 outside there researching strange diseases in or was he on 1132 01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:24.559 some of the Micronesian islands or someplace? 1133 01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.639 Yeah, he brought yeah, Micronesia. He brought about fifty young 1134 01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:28.679 boys back with him somewhere. 1135 01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:32.440 Yeah, he was very interested in boys. And when when 1136 01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:35.760 the son of Sam case was reopened by Yonkers police department, 1137 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:42.119 Gadgetsick became he was a person of interest and then 1138 01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:49.559 some and he eventually was convicted of child molestations, served 1139 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:52.920 a boy a year in prison, then got out, retreated 1140 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:58.519 to Europe and died over there. He he was a 1141 01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:02.320 strange character in a horing to multiple sources, he was 1142 01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:11.519 present for very specific cultic activities, including allegedly the the 1143 01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:13.119 sacrifice of a child. 1144 01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:20.360 So yeah, god, yeah, why does he look like the 1145 01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:23.000 composite sketch of the Zodiac Killer. 1146 01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:26.400 He was a creepy guy. And there's there's a film 1147 01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:29.920 where they an interview film where they talked to him 1148 01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:35.800 and he's he's very He just totally denied reality it, 1149 01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:37.880 could not admit that he had done anything wrong. But 1150 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:44.159 he David Berkowitz was aware of doctor Gadgetsik because he 1151 01:02:44.599 --> 01:02:47.639 was a He was a major figure in youngers there. 1152 01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:51.599 And he Yeah. 1153 01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.760 From nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety six, Carlton Gadgasik was 1154 01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:58.920 the chief of the Laboratory of Central Nervous System Studies 1155 01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:02.079 that n I n DS at the National Institutes of Health, 1156 01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:05.039 working directly for none other than Tony Fauci. 1157 01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:10.519 Oh my god, and they were probably boyfriends him And 1158 01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:15.239 you can do it, that little fairy fuck. I hate Fauci, 1159 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:16.199 I swear. 1160 01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:18.800 So you may know Carlton gad your sex nephew. He 1161 01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:21.320 brought us the first season of Stranger Things. 1162 01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:28.480 Ah, stop it and make up. Oh, come on, you guys. 1163 01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.519 This guy's neph what'd you say is nephew? 1164 01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:34.880 I believe if I'm not mistaken, this is his brother's son. 1165 01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:38.400 Yes, Oh my god, come on. 1166 01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.159 He was the chief chief writer and showrunner for season 1167 01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:43.719 one of Stranger Things. 1168 01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:49.480 Just saying, oh my god, probably just. 1169 01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:53.559 A crazier thing. Yeah, totally a coincidence, Stranger Things. Indeed, 1170 01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:59.000 the I'm sure is behind all of that. Oh, so 1171 01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:00.760 to this stuff? 1172 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:05.159 Fucking god, do that? 1173 01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:06.559 Just blow up your brain hole there, Julia. 1174 01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:09.800 Both of you guys are blowing up my brain hole 1175 01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:11.559 in here. I thought I knew something. 1176 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:13.800 That's well, you do know stuff. That's what I like 1177 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:15.559 to do here. We like to exchange ideas. You know, 1178 01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:17.239 we all we all have a different piece of the puzzle. 1179 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.159 I feel like, not to make it sound creepy or nothing, 1180 01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:21.760 but it is a It is a puzzle of sorts, 1181 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:27.039 right it is. I heard it in a song one time. 1182 01:04:27.079 --> 01:04:28.719 I think it was the beginning of the show The 1183 01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:31.920 World's a Puzzle. So I don't know why they called 1184 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:36.039 this ghost story, but they Yeah, I mean, it doesn't 1185 01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:38.960 have the same you know, plot lines or nothing. But 1186 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.840 it is an interesting story. And again it's just weird 1187 01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:45.360 to me. It seems very processing when you got Homegirl 1188 01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:49.119 in there, merry, unfaithful and whatnot. But h onto the 1189 01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:51.880 actual ghost story, and that is the Peter Strub version. 1190 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:55.320 So besides Peter, uh, let's start off with Peter Strub. 1191 01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:58.519 So this dude writes this book again, Burke, of which 1192 01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:01.440 is arrested in August tenth of eighteen seventy seven. He 1193 01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.960 publishes the book on January first, of seventy nine, So 1194 01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:08.079 let's call it. He did this obviously within that seventeen 1195 01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:10.679 month span. But I mean, you know, you pointed out 1196 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:14.119 how he's got he dedicated to Tavistock folks. That's a 1197 01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:16.519 good indication of how he may know these tales. But 1198 01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:18.559 what else is interesting about Peter Stroke. 1199 01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:23.960 Well, he ghost story in every book thereafter pretty much 1200 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:29.719 contains some reference to the Yonker's cult and its membership, 1201 01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.280 all the way down to well they have mystery listed 1202 01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:38.840 there in nineteen ninety. By that time, he was writing 1203 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.800 sort of like he had He wasn't writing harder novels 1204 01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.840 any longer, but he was writing really really dark murder mysteries. 1205 01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:49.079 And there's a minor character in mystery a police officer, 1206 01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:54.880 and his name is Officer Spahoa. It's phonetically that's yeah, 1207 01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:58.199 s p y c h A l l A. Now 1208 01:05:58.239 --> 01:06:01.760 that's a very specific name because it's the name of 1209 01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:05.199 a person who allegedly was at the planning meeting for 1210 01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:07.480 Son of Sam in the spring of nineteen seventy six. 1211 01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:11.280 His name was Lapho. It's a it's a Polish name, 1212 01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:16.199 so it's hard to pronounce correctly. But this Peter Strub 1213 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:20.039 used it as a character name many years before Ron 1214 01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:23.599 Spachala was ever mentioned in the press in any public 1215 01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:27.000 mention of Ron'spachala that I can find. But Strub used 1216 01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:30.760 the name as a deliberate clue, just to let his 1217 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.840 readers know that he had not forgotten about all this 1218 01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:35.519 strange stuff and that maybe one day somebody would figure 1219 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:39.519 out this this puzzle. So yeah, that's. 1220 01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:43.280 Yeah, Well he's so Tavis. 1221 01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:47.800 It does that way. It's a hard conclusion to escape, 1222 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:51.280 but it yeah. 1223 01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:53.639 Oh my god, that's too specific. I'm sorry, is its 1224 01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:55.480 way too it's too specific? 1225 01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.079 Well, like I said, it's almost like finding a fingerprint. 1226 01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:01.800 It's that definite, you know, it's hard to discount that. 1227 01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:06.000 But yeah, John, what you need to start a podcast? 1228 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:10.960 Well, John, John's a wealth of information, isn't he. 1229 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:14.000 Julia, Yes, oh my god. 1230 01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:17.719 Well strangely enough, and I'm glad we all find this 1231 01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:21.000 so interesting, But I don't find a lot of interest 1232 01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:23.519 in it within the community. It's just not one of 1233 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:25.440 those things that people seem to have caught onto. 1234 01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:29.639 Really, I feel like this is one of the more 1235 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:31.159 interesting things. 1236 01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:33.400 If I made that, if I met you. Guys are 1237 01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:36.320 hitting on exactly why I'm doing these as occult esotic 1238 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:37.840 film reviews, because I think the one thing that the 1239 01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:39.639 folks can understand is when they see a picture of 1240 01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.119 these ideas and they can relate to a picture like 1241 01:07:42.360 --> 01:07:43.639 it makes a lot more It makes a lot more 1242 01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:46.760 sense to me when I see shit in a picture. Yes, absolutely, 1243 01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:50.920 that's just me. Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. 1244 01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:53.840 Julia, Are you special? 1245 01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:56.360 As the pop ups? And I color them myself. Okay. 1246 01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:01.719 I saw something on the Wikipedia page for the author though. 1247 01:08:01.760 --> 01:08:03.480 I was going to ask John if he thought it 1248 01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:06.159 was significant. Hang on, pull it back up. 1249 01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:09.880 Please do stand by, police by. I don't even know 1250 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:11.239 what I was doing there. I was just cruising around 1251 01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:12.480 my tabs. To be quite honest with. 1252 01:08:12.440 --> 01:08:15.400 You, Well, it looks like the first book. This isn't 1253 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:16.399 what I was going to ask. 1254 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.279 But first, right. 1255 01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:26.960 Is my namesake Julia nineteen seventy five. But that's besides 1256 01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.279 the point. It looks like he did some work for 1257 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:35.279 or with HP Lovecraft. 1258 01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:36.279 And Stephen King. 1259 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:37.079 Stephen King. 1260 01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:40.720 Yeah, he and Stephen King wrote two novels together, The 1261 01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:45.079 Talisman and Black House. Black House. That's one of the 1262 01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:48.000 rare moments in Straub's career that I just didn't It 1263 01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:50.640 wasn't very good. But the Talisman is really good, the 1264 01:08:50.680 --> 01:08:54.199 first book. I really enjoyed that one. I think he 1265 01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:59.800 edited maybe a volume of HP Lovecraft stories for the 1266 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:02.840 Library of America, and unfortunately a lot of that stuff 1267 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:04.199 has gone out of print. But that was a really 1268 01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:05.319 a good series of books. 1269 01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:10.640 Yeah, I wonder what's in the Talisman. 1270 01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:16.319 Well, there's a character. In fact, the main villain in 1271 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:20.479 that book is named Morgan Slote, and the surname Slope 1272 01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:22.880 comes from a roommate of John Carrs when he was 1273 01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:27.960 in the Air Force. Uh So, yeah, there's just one 1274 01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:32.079 clue after another in his books, and it's well, yeah. 1275 01:09:32.760 --> 01:09:37.800 Isn't there a Laurel Kenyon asshole last name Slopeman changed 1276 01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:40.920 it to do you know how I'm talking about j J. 1277 01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:46.760 Are you referring to Jim Morrison's kindergarten classmate, Gail Slopeman, 1278 01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:48.439 who would later marry Frank Zappa. 1279 01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.199 Yes, yes, and changed her last name. That's right, that's right, 1280 01:09:54.319 --> 01:09:59.119 Gail Zappa formerly known Slopeman. 1281 01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:01.800 Yes, ma'am. She was. 1282 01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:05.319 She was military, right her family. 1283 01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:08.560 Sure for sure, that's why she was in kindergarten with Morrison. 1284 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:15.119 Yeah. No, that that obviously two connections in my mind, 1285 01:10:15.239 --> 01:10:19.720 because I think that they sneak little stuff like that, 1286 01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:23.279 and Gail Slopeman somebody wrote it in the comments. 1287 01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:25.760 Yep, there you go, Thank you folks of the interwebs. 1288 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:31.520 So these are interesting aspects. So with regards to spy Challa, like, 1289 01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.880 I mean, you got to be in the know on 1290 01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:38.520 that one, right, you know, yeah, because that that my 1291 01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:40.600 understanding is like like you were pointing out, is like 1292 01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:43.840 that dude was like you know, you know, no one 1293 01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:45.159 really knew that name, like that was one of the 1294 01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:47.960 ones that minderstanding Mary kept close to the best, even 1295 01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:49.279 right he did. 1296 01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.159 Yeah, I think Maury was right up to the end. 1297 01:10:52.199 --> 01:10:55.239 He was trying to learn more about all these individuals 1298 01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:58.039 because he knew they all fit into the larger picture. 1299 01:10:58.840 --> 01:11:03.640 But Yell was he's really You read about his history 1300 01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:07.119 and some of this stuff is just almost unimaginably awful. 1301 01:11:07.720 --> 01:11:09.680 He's another one of these people. The reason all these 1302 01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:12.119 people were there is that they hurt children. That that 1303 01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:16.920 was the common thread, you know, because that that's ultimately 1304 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:20.279 what this cult was about. The Son of Sam attacks themselves. 1305 01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:24.000 I feel we're just the visible tip of a very 1306 01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:27.279 large iceberg. In the case, was was way more complex 1307 01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:30.880 than just the handful of of shooting attacks that people 1308 01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:31.399 know about. 1309 01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:36.479 Wait till you read Program to Kill. You're gonna you're 1310 01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:39.640 gonna go so far down the rabbit hole you're gonna 1311 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:41.800 be begging me and JJ to pull you back out. 1312 01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:48.159 I mean, it's it's it's absolutely mind boggling. But I 1313 01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:50.840 agree with you. I think children are a currency in 1314 01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:57.439 these cults. They're traded and they are used for blackmail, 1315 01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.640 among other things, sacrificial. 1316 01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:01.640 Well, there you go. You know, you hit it right there, 1317 01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:03.720 the way I look at it, the way I look 1318 01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:05.960 at the epicenter my apologize and mean to cut you off. 1319 01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:07.560 Julie, No, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. 1320 01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.199 I look at the epicenter of the activity of these 1321 01:12:11.239 --> 01:12:15.359 spooky blackmail operations, and you know, I've read enough cruelly 1322 01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:18.359 and I'll be going that on unpacking my Satanic Panic series. 1323 01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:21.760 Literally again, I'm not trying to inform my own opinions, thoughts, 1324 01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:24.079 or ideas against their judgmental on all these people. I'm 1325 01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:27.119 using their words to describe these things. And there's a 1326 01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:29.119 lot of kid diddling stuff that comes out of what 1327 01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:31.720 people would call a religion. If they're Theelamites that I 1328 01:12:31.720 --> 01:12:34.840 think intersects with all this thing that they're calling blackmail operations. 1329 01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:38.520 Well, you should talk to William Ramsey about the West 1330 01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:41.159 Memphis three too, because that came out of the Satanic 1331 01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:46.119 Panic and that was all weird Crowley worshiping stuff. 1332 01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:48.119 So I mean, and I'll be using that as an 1333 01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:49.840 example of my series, but I'm actually gonna be going 1334 01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:53.239 over the cases and comp comparing the Satanic Panic around 1335 01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:56.199 these major events, but using cases emphasized this is a 1336 01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:58.159 greater deal, just like John's doing here in the son 1337 01:12:58.159 --> 01:13:00.640 A Sam series. There's a greater number of cases that 1338 01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:03.000 are not being depicted in the conversation because this is 1339 01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:05.119 a larger pattern of behavior the cult activity. 1340 01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:08.560 M hmm, well, I mean even in this movie. I 1341 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:13.840 think they reference in the movie, uh something about occultism 1342 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:19.399 several times or like cult activity several times they do. 1343 01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:21.399 And on that note is is this is this an 1344 01:13:21.399 --> 01:13:23.319 accurate statement that we hear from the chat? I appreciate 1345 01:13:23.359 --> 01:13:25.800 this statement. There, Wallhead Rex so car was O T 1346 01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:28.000 O O t O Roade Strub's attorney, and Strub edited 1347 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:29.079 out the OTO reference. 1348 01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:31.199 Strup did, in fact edit out a reference to the 1349 01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:34.279 OTO in the original hardcover version. That's right, No, she. 1350 01:13:36.319 --> 01:13:38.640 That that's a fucking barn burner, right there, folks. 1351 01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:42.399 Yeah, he changes the name of the group to the XXX, 1352 01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:47.119 which has a convoluted Latin it means something in Latin. 1353 01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:49.920 But he changed the name in the paperback to the XXX. 1354 01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:53.880 But he also rolls into that multiple references to the 1355 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:57.640 Processed Church. In fact, that the villainous who is she 1356 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:00.760 keeps coming back with the initials a M. Those are 1357 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:04.159 just the initials of Marianna Grimston reversed. So there's a 1358 01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:07.960 lot of cult references in their conscious references. But yes, 1359 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:08.399 that's true. 1360 01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:10.399 Blown up a brainhole, John, You're blowing up a brain. 1361 01:14:10.279 --> 01:14:16.720 Hole reference in in the in the original edition of 1362 01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:17.000 the book. 1363 01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:24.239 Yeah, and to the person who left that comment, uh, Wayheadrex, 1364 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:29.479 is that how wyhead Rex? Who the fuck are you? 1365 01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:32.920 Why do you know so much? That was awesome. I 1366 01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:36.079 mean John obviously was gonna say, but still, that was awesome. 1367 01:14:37.159 --> 01:14:39.000 I didn't. Yeah, that's great stuff. I didn't know that 1368 01:14:39.039 --> 01:14:41.159 at all. That's that's as I mean, it's an interesting 1369 01:14:41.199 --> 01:14:43.520 aspect to understand when you you see the folks that 1370 01:14:43.560 --> 01:14:45.560 get but hurt about their names appearing stuff. I had 1371 01:14:45.560 --> 01:14:48.920 referenced earlier that creepy fellow Michae Lookino email and Dave 1372 01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:51.840 McGowan saying how dare you and McGowan basically just laughing 1373 01:14:51.880 --> 01:14:52.399 them off with. 1374 01:14:52.479 --> 01:14:57.479 Facts, Yeah, with facts, literal facts like hello. 1375 01:14:57.720 --> 01:14:59.920 Yeah, I'm really glad that people are coming about the 1376 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:04.359 things because this is a discussion that people have so seldom. 1377 01:15:04.399 --> 01:15:07.279 I mean, it's this stuff is almost never talked about, 1378 01:15:07.640 --> 01:15:12.039 especially in relation to the fictional references to real life 1379 01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:15.000 people and events. I just, well, like I said earlier, 1380 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:21.920 it's it's so obviously a separate confirmation that the Yonkers 1381 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:28.199 case actually did happen, that this cult existed, but people 1382 01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:32.920 within the community just aren't. They're not interested in it really, 1383 01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:37.199 at least not in my experience, because I try to 1384 01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:40.920 generate this conversation over and over again, and it's just 1385 01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:44.279 not really something that people appear to be interested in. 1386 01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:47.000 It's it's just not on their radar for whatever reason. 1387 01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:50.720 Well, I found John, I'll give you my and I 1388 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:53.479 don't want a tangent or anything. But I just talked 1389 01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:57.159 about this on a podcast recently, and you might agree 1390 01:15:57.239 --> 01:16:01.800 or disagree, but I find it interesting the willingness of 1391 01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:05.800 people to listen to podcasts but not to read anything. 1392 01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:08.359 They don't want to read a book, they don't want to, 1393 01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:11.359 they don't want to look up information they don't They 1394 01:16:11.399 --> 01:16:14.319 want it to either be a Google away or in 1395 01:16:14.439 --> 01:16:17.720 like some kind of a TikTok video or a podcast 1396 01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:20.800 that they don't really have to like divulge too much 1397 01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:21.479 of their attention. 1398 01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:25.600 Yeah, right, it's sad. 1399 01:16:26.359 --> 01:16:29.119 It is sad, But I think that's why it's so cool, 1400 01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:32.680 like when we can talk about it in podcast form, 1401 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:35.960 Because obviously I love to read. I don't have any 1402 01:16:36.039 --> 01:16:40.119 problems sitting down and reading The Ultimate Evil or Program 1403 01:16:40.159 --> 01:16:43.000 to Kill Strange Things from the Canyon. I have no 1404 01:16:43.119 --> 01:16:46.640 problem doing that. The thing for me is I didn't 1405 01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:49.039 want to make it digestible so I can take it 1406 01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:52.520 onto a podcast platform and talk to people about it 1407 01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:56.199 and get them interested in it who would have otherwise 1408 01:16:56.319 --> 01:16:59.079 never read the book or taken the time to read 1409 01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.399 the book. So I think, you know, book reading in 1410 01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:05.680 itself is kind of like this dying art form is like, 1411 01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:08.520 oh what you read? You don't just listen to Joe 1412 01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:12.279 Rogan and like download useless information, you know what I mean? 1413 01:17:12.439 --> 01:17:12.920 So slight. 1414 01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:15.319 I like your approach though. That's a pretty solid approaching 1415 01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:19.560 out there. What you're saying, you're reading books and then 1416 01:17:19.560 --> 01:17:22.359 trying to you know, instead of realizing folks don't read books, 1417 01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:25.520 and then you try to digest that into a format. 1418 01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:27.920 Then I did digestible podcast podcast. 1419 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:30.840 Yes, yeah, that's I mean, that's what I like to 1420 01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:33.119 do on my show. That's why I think John would 1421 01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:37.600 be successful at it, because it's obviously something that's very interesting, 1422 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:41.239 but people just don't want to read. Isn't that sad? 1423 01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:44.800 People don't know one I want to take the time. 1424 01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:48.039 Well, on my substect that's what I try to give 1425 01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:50.680 it to people, Like, like you're talking about indigestible form, 1426 01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:52.520 you know, you give them just a few paragraphs and 1427 01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:55.880 hopefully it's not so complicated that it overwhelms them, but 1428 01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:58.760 it gives them enough to think about and maybe that'll 1429 01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:00.840 part their interest and then they'll go read a couple 1430 01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:03.439 of books about it. But yeah, I felt like that 1431 01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:06.640 was particularly important with Stroud because I kept asking people 1432 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:08.560 that they read the book and everybody said no, And 1433 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:11.199 I said, well, there's all this really bizarre stuff in 1434 01:18:11.239 --> 01:18:14.399 it that relates directly to the case, and I just 1435 01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:19.600 it was interesting to me anyways, so I started to 1436 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:25.760 dig deeper into it, and then it also correlated with it. 1437 01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:29.399 I was really when I started doing research, I hated 1438 01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:31.920 making phone calls to people. I just hated it because 1439 01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:34.840 it made them feel weird and it made me feel weird. 1440 01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:38.039 But I found that the more I did it, the 1441 01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:44.279 more I found information from actual firsthand sources who corroborated 1442 01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:47.680 the references to the cult that I found in Straub's work, 1443 01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:53.359 to the point where this is one of the things 1444 01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:56.760 that didn't make it into the film, unfortunately. But in 1445 01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:02.079 the novel, the Alice Kreese character, this Eva Gali Alma 1446 01:19:02.119 --> 01:19:06.600 Moblei character in one of her incarnations she appears in 1447 01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:10.159 a stage play, and she's a big success, and everybody's 1448 01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:13.039 fascinated with her, and they think, oh wow, she's destined 1449 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:14.560 to go on to be a star of the stage 1450 01:19:14.600 --> 01:19:15.840 and she's going to do a lot of great things 1451 01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:21.039 when her but she abruptly disappears. Well, for the longest time, 1452 01:19:21.079 --> 01:19:24.039 I've been reading this book for thirty five thirty six years. 1453 01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:28.479 I read it every Halloween. I had no idea that 1454 01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:31.479 that referred to a real life event. Well, I started 1455 01:19:31.520 --> 01:19:36.479 doing newspaper research on Susanne Conway. She appeared in nineteen 1456 01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:41.600 seventy five in a stage play, then left town very suddenly. 1457 01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:44.520 At first, I only knew about the play. Then I 1458 01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:48.079 spoke to one of her fellow cast members in upstate 1459 01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:50.760 New York and he tells me, well, you know, and 1460 01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:53.000 I didn't tell him any of this stuff about ghost story, 1461 01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:54.359 any of the rest of it, But he said, you know, 1462 01:19:54.760 --> 01:19:56.800 I don't know what happened to Sue, because not long 1463 01:19:56.840 --> 01:19:58.399 after she was in the place, she just up and 1464 01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:01.199 left town, and everybody wondered about her. Nobody knew what 1465 01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:03.720 happened to her. So it's a reference to the end 1466 01:20:03.880 --> 01:20:10.119 Veronica more story in the novel a direct reference. Uh So, 1467 01:20:10.159 --> 01:20:12.560 the more research you do, the more you find out 1468 01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:15.079 that all this stuff actually happened, and that so many 1469 01:20:15.119 --> 01:20:18.920 of the events in the book make reference to real life. 1470 01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:20.359 Events, real life shit. 1471 01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:25.199 Yeah. Yeah, that's a great blog piece, Specs. You definitely 1472 01:20:25.239 --> 01:20:27.039 check this out. Isn't be in the show notes for 1473 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:28.000 folks to check out. 1474 01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:33.880 Joy doesn't Susan Conway remind you of Tuesday Weld a 1475 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:34.319 little bit? 1476 01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:38.079 She plays a very similar role in the in this 1477 01:20:38.119 --> 01:20:40.239 scene that I think is Tuesday Well plays overall and 1478 01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:41.680 especially in the Hollywood scene. 1479 01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:46.560 Yeah, and they're both like priestess level. Yeah, you know 1480 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:50.079 what I'm saying. You gotta look into Tuesday Well if 1481 01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:55.279 you haven't, John, because she's another rabbit hole that just 1482 01:20:55.319 --> 01:20:59.000 never ends. But it's like the ones, the ones in 1483 01:20:59.039 --> 01:21:04.520 these these who are actually the upper echelon, They actually 1484 01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:12.720 get kind of shielded or hidden or occulted from mainstream view, 1485 01:21:13.159 --> 01:21:13.640 which I. 1486 01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:14.840 Come on, are you sing? 1487 01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:18.079 Very interesting? What are you talking about? 1488 01:21:20.159 --> 01:21:21.880 You mean to tell me people aren't how accountable for 1489 01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:24.000 their activities? Is that around these these colts? 1490 01:21:25.119 --> 01:21:25.960 Right? Yeah? 1491 01:21:26.560 --> 01:21:28.319 What you mean is that what you want me to believe? 1492 01:21:29.199 --> 01:21:32.720 I do want you. 1493 01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:33.039 Now that is the pattern time and time again. 1494 01:21:33.159 --> 01:21:38.640 Right mm so this this uh in the in the 1495 01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:41.960 movie actually too. I wanted to get your thoughts on this. 1496 01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:44.680 May I just make a point on your book booking 1497 01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:47.880 on your statement there, Juliet, relative to national security on 1498 01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:50.720 our left and relative to process church folks who walk 1499 01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:54.279 on our right. Cocaine Bob here walked on trafficking charges 1500 01:21:54.279 --> 01:21:57.359 in cocaine in nineteen eighty no time, and he walked 1501 01:21:57.359 --> 01:21:59.520 on murder charges in nineteen eighty eight of the Roy 1502 01:21:59.600 --> 01:22:03.239 Raidner her courtesy of Charles Manson's friend Ira Reyner, then 1503 01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:07.159 LA district attorney and his co conspirator. There, Old Cocaine 1504 01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:10.319 Bob was the medi Ian cartels number one dude in 1505 01:22:10.359 --> 01:22:14.079 America's wife she just popped her husband six months prior 1506 01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:17.439 to arrest with with with which Cocaine Bob was picked 1507 01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:19.640 up for and was an unindicted co conspirator. 1508 01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:26.199 But you know how many people know that you that's true? 1509 01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:30.359 Like and like whoever's listening to this podcast right now, 1510 01:22:30.439 --> 01:22:30.760 Well we. 1511 01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:32.520 Gotta yeah say we got we got one hundred and 1512 01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:34.680 seventy plus folks that are learning these things right now. 1513 01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:42.000 So that's again, this is all right, definitely a barn burner. 1514 01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:44.760 I appreciate. I just I got to bring in the 1515 01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:47.159 cocaine Bob factor in my back. Yeah. 1516 01:22:47.199 --> 01:22:48.119 Yeah, I mean that. 1517 01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:50.760 He's an I never leave. 1518 01:22:52.079 --> 01:22:54.039 You cut out for like a second. 1519 01:22:56.000 --> 01:22:59.560 The uh so, Yeah, I mean I just think, you know, again, 1520 01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:02.600 we're we're kind of drawing patterns of these activities and people. 1521 01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:04.600 But you know, these people don't get held accountable, do they. 1522 01:23:06.119 --> 01:23:09.079 No, No, they really don't. There was a handful of 1523 01:23:09.079 --> 01:23:12.760 people in the case of Son of Sam who were 1524 01:23:13.319 --> 01:23:17.079 members or affiliates of the cult who died in odd ways, 1525 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:20.439 you know, in the few years after Burkewitz's arrest. But 1526 01:23:20.840 --> 01:23:23.680 the people hire up the ladder. Yeah, there very rarely 1527 01:23:24.119 --> 01:23:27.359 are any consequences for them, unfortunately for sure. 1528 01:23:27.399 --> 01:23:29.239 And I just want to highlight this before we move on. 1529 01:23:29.399 --> 01:23:32.600 Peter Strobe, unless yell have anything else on Strobe, but 1530 01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:35.800 he says he wrote ghost Story. The reason I chose 1531 01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:38.560 to write scary books was because at the time there 1532 01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:41.960 were only three horror novels and they'd been enormously successful, 1533 01:23:42.079 --> 01:23:45.520 The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, and the other. And I just 1534 01:23:45.560 --> 01:23:49.000 like to remind everyone Rosemary's Baby was a process outfit 1535 01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:53.079 with Roman Planski cocaine Bob. He was on set every 1536 01:23:53.119 --> 01:23:55.760 day despite being the head of Paramount and hiring Polansky 1537 01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:57.439 to do that. And I like to put a note 1538 01:23:57.479 --> 01:23:59.520 in there, penning Polanski there for a second, because he 1539 01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.760 comes up here in Tonight's tale. But if you aren't 1540 01:24:02.960 --> 01:24:05.359 have anything else on Peter Strubb, we can continue. But 1541 01:24:05.479 --> 01:24:07.640 by all means, this guy's an interesting character. 1542 01:24:10.439 --> 01:24:13.359 Yeah, I would I wish I knew more about him personally, 1543 01:24:13.439 --> 01:24:17.479 because it's it's just so obvious that he had a 1544 01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:20.880 first hand source, you know. Yeah, but it's the kind 1545 01:24:20.920 --> 01:24:23.199 of thing that he was never going to talk about openly. 1546 01:24:23.239 --> 01:24:27.119 I mean, he he talks about certain influence, you know, 1547 01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:30.279 literary influence and stuff on Ghost Story. He talks about 1548 01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:35.159 you know, uh, Nathaniel Hawthorne and Henry James and all that. 1549 01:24:35.239 --> 01:24:39.760 But but those are the obvious things. What's not so obvious? Hey? 1550 01:24:39.640 --> 01:24:41.239 There you go? What do we don't know that we 1551 01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:43.359 don't know that? We do they know that we don't know? 1552 01:24:43.720 --> 01:24:47.239 Yeah, And I just I wish I wish it was 1553 01:24:47.640 --> 01:24:50.159 a wider discussion. I'd like to bring more people into it, 1554 01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:53.119 you know, because somebody's going to know something about this somewhere. 1555 01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:55.319 We just have to bring him into the circle and 1556 01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:57.479 and get everybody to talk about it. 1557 01:24:58.359 --> 01:24:58.600 Well. 1558 01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:02.319 To add on to your point really quick about this 1559 01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:06.640 author and why I feel like it's significant is because 1560 01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:11.920 someone that I comment on constantly that I actually have 1561 01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:18.199 a poster right here, Stanley Kubrick. He put into his 1562 01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:22.600 movies things that were not in the novels, right like 1563 01:25:22.680 --> 01:25:30.079 the Shining Clockwork Orange Lolita, you know. And the guy 1564 01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:34.319 who wrote a Clockwork Orange actually ripped off the idea 1565 01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:37.800 from a conversation that Stanley Kubrick was having with someone, 1566 01:25:38.279 --> 01:25:38.680 and then. 1567 01:25:38.600 --> 01:25:39.680 He ended up directing. 1568 01:25:40.319 --> 01:25:44.319 Yes. Yes, So Stanley Kubrick was at a party one 1569 01:25:44.439 --> 01:25:46.680 night with a bunch of like weird German people like 1570 01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:49.359 Warner von Braun and shit like that, and he was 1571 01:25:49.439 --> 01:25:53.560 talking about the idea of a clockwork Orange. The guy 1572 01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:56.319 who wrote the book was there, wrote the book and 1573 01:25:56.359 --> 01:25:59.079 then had Stanley direct the film. But the reason I 1574 01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:00.000 bring all this up. 1575 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:06.800 Ark, No, it's Anthony Burgess. Like you, He's also got 1576 01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:08.159 a weird a lot of weird stuff in. 1577 01:26:08.079 --> 01:26:12.479 His stories, right, Anthony Burgess. So why I bring that 1578 01:26:12.600 --> 01:26:17.560 up is because Stanley Kubrick was supposed to direct the Exorcist, 1579 01:26:17.960 --> 01:26:20.199 but he passed it up. He said he didn't want 1580 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:24.640 to do it, and so they got William Friedkin to 1581 01:26:24.720 --> 01:26:28.359 do the Exorcist. But then because he passed up on 1582 01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:32.560 the Exorcist, they asked him to do the Shining and 1583 01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:35.079 he took it and flipped it and made it a 1584 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:38.319 cult and esoteric and it it is what we have today. 1585 01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:41.720 But then look at the other book slash movie that's 1586 01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:47.000 listed Rosemary's Baby, right Polanski, So this guy is talking 1587 01:26:47.039 --> 01:26:52.199 about I wanted to write horror because I know how 1588 01:26:52.399 --> 01:26:55.640 esoteric it is. Basically, right, we got like The Exorcist, 1589 01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:59.079 Rosemary's Baby. I mean, Stanley Kubrick was doing all this 1590 01:26:59.159 --> 01:26:59.760 shit too. 1591 01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:02.600 I would all books. 1592 01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:05.039 And making them, you know what I mean. It's like 1593 01:27:05.079 --> 01:27:07.680 they're all kind of connected. They all know that they 1594 01:27:07.720 --> 01:27:09.000 can slip stuff in there. 1595 01:27:09.720 --> 01:27:11.800 Yeah, for sure, I would argue it's them trying to 1596 01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:15.520 basically a public initiation of some of the cold ideas. Because 1597 01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:18.560 you mentioned freaking he ties into the gay club s 1598 01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:20.680 and m scene with this tale relative to the Son 1599 01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:22.520 of Sam story in the early eighties in New York City, 1600 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:26.119 that death mass story, the death mass story that John 1601 01:27:26.119 --> 01:27:29.199 wrote about would be this environment here and Cruising. In fact, 1602 01:27:29.720 --> 01:27:31.680 freakin knew the guy that was doing these. 1603 01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:34.960 Murders, but see how they slipped that. 1604 01:27:34.960 --> 01:27:38.520 Shit in Yeah, and freaking's it's I just friends with 1605 01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:40.680 this guy who's a gay, gay S and M club 1606 01:27:40.720 --> 01:27:43.159 serial killer. Don't worry about it, folks, don't worry about 1607 01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:46.880 it and go cocaine Bible star his buddy Alvil stars 1608 01:27:46.920 --> 01:27:48.680 the you know in the film about it, right, because 1609 01:27:48.880 --> 01:27:51.079 these idiots are just telling that they're bragging about their 1610 01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:53.439 Speaking of the Braggs we talked about earlier, John, they're 1611 01:27:53.479 --> 01:27:56.199 just bragging about their ship in my opinion, but yeah, 1612 01:27:56.319 --> 01:27:58.439 well I'm just the garbage candidates. Who am I to say? 1613 01:27:58.720 --> 01:28:00.720 Well, I'll tell you And I hope this is not 1614 01:28:00.760 --> 01:28:03.239 going to sound like Bragdon because it really isn't. But 1615 01:28:03.279 --> 01:28:07.199 it's just such an inescapable connection I have to mention it. 1616 01:28:07.239 --> 01:28:11.920 In reference to Cruising, the Los Angeles punk rock band 1617 01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:13.880 The Germs, they did a couple of songs for the 1618 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:15.920 sound Actually they did about half an album's worth of 1619 01:28:15.920 --> 01:28:18.239 stuff for the soundtrack of that film, but only one 1620 01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:22.760 of the songs wound up being used. Uh, there is 1621 01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:23.960 cult history there. 1622 01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:26.560 Yeah. 1623 01:28:26.640 --> 01:28:29.760 In in in Darby Crash's background. 1624 01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:32.720 Thought came from that band. 1625 01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:38.840 Yeah, no ship, Yeah, George Ruthenberg, Yeah, I don't. A 1626 01:28:38.880 --> 01:28:42.920 good friend of mine knew Derby fairlywell. She was involved 1627 01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:50.960 in that scene, and in fact she was Nicholas Shrek's 1628 01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:51.720 first wife. 1629 01:28:53.359 --> 01:28:55.119 That's right, you told me about that. 1630 01:28:57.000 --> 01:29:01.399 But we were good, good friends. And uh, I learned 1631 01:29:01.399 --> 01:29:06.479 a lot reading about Darby because he I believe he 1632 01:29:06.600 --> 01:29:11.479 was almost certainly programmed. Uh And that's probably a story 1633 01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:12.960 for another time, but but. 1634 01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:16.159 He was a story from our time because I just 1635 01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:17.680 put a pin in that there that' stuff. This is 1636 01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:19.039 all very interesting, please continue. 1637 01:29:19.119 --> 01:29:22.279 Yeah, Actually there's a lot of strange history there. He 1638 01:29:22.479 --> 01:29:24.479 very early on, when he was still in high school, 1639 01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:27.720 he had people from scientology and est and all these 1640 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:32.680 organizations actively messing with the heads of the kids that 1641 01:29:32.720 --> 01:29:35.760 attended that school. So yeah, that that's something we could 1642 01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:37.640 talk about another for. 1643 01:29:37.680 --> 01:29:43.079 Sure, dude, that we exercise into my speaking of weird 1644 01:29:43.199 --> 01:29:46.399 McGowan's weird scenes inside the Canyon. I took the framework 1645 01:29:46.439 --> 01:29:50.000 of his story, the salient characteristics and points that he 1646 01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:53.760 identified theirs. That was the framework of that operation in 1647 01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:56.720 Laurel Canyon. I applied that same framework to Seattle runs 1648 01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.920 counterculture and it's the exact same fucking thing. And Pat's 1649 01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:02.039 mirror is part of that counterculture. That's interesting. 1650 01:30:02.720 --> 01:30:06.279 Yeah, the Nirvana you know weird. 1651 01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:11.920 Yeah, he came in there, Nirvana I love. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, 1652 01:30:11.960 --> 01:30:13.439 that's yeah, there's a lot of a lot of a 1653 01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:15.760 lot of weird. Tana have been getting on with those topics. 1654 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:18.520 But back to the ghost story here, the tonight's topic 1655 01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:20.560 you can hand which I do appreciate your folks time 1656 01:30:20.600 --> 01:30:22.600 at the interwebs in of course John and Julia and 1657 01:30:22.640 --> 01:30:25.319 your conversation. I'm learning a lot here, as I always 1658 01:30:25.319 --> 01:30:27.720 do with both of you all in conversations and podcasts, 1659 01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:31.000 So I do appreciate that. And I will only show 1660 01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:33.920 this picture of Cocaine Bob six or seven more times, 1661 01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:37.319 so I do want to get that out there. So 1662 01:30:38.039 --> 01:30:40.279 ghost story, and I just want to add this, and 1663 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.399 I asked you all this question here too as well. 1664 01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:44.800 If you were to pick a character from the film 1665 01:30:44.800 --> 01:30:47.119 and sign them to one of these Muppet muppets, who 1666 01:30:47.199 --> 01:30:51.520 which character would it be? In which muppet? Obviously we 1667 01:30:51.600 --> 01:30:53.640 know that the female ones, that's the only one I'm 1668 01:30:53.640 --> 01:30:55.720 talking about. The the creepy. 1669 01:30:55.359 --> 01:31:02.960 Fellas right, I'll I'll do. I'll say that doctor Jeffrey 1670 01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:08.760 is the disheveled guy in the Chef's Hat Douglas character. 1671 01:31:09.640 --> 01:31:13.239 Yeah, yeah, he's my favorite one out of the bunch. 1672 01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:14.720 He's my favorite one out of the bunch. 1673 01:31:15.399 --> 01:31:22.159 Ricky is the teddy bear faced one. I think maybe 1674 01:31:22.239 --> 01:31:24.119 Ricky is the chef's hat guy. 1675 01:31:26.560 --> 01:31:28.880 I think Freda Staire's Kerman. I could see him, you know, 1676 01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:29.600 cutting a rug. 1677 01:31:37.119 --> 01:31:38.720 What's the last one's name? 1678 01:31:39.760 --> 01:31:42.000 Well, it started out as Gonzo. He went through a 1679 01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:43.560 couple of morphs, you know what I mean in the 1680 01:31:43.600 --> 01:31:46.319 GCD Muppet Factory, so it didn't come out as Gonzo, 1681 01:31:46.439 --> 01:31:47.600 but he started as Gonzo. 1682 01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:51.119 No, but the guy, the last guy in the movie, 1683 01:31:51.199 --> 01:31:53.439 the fat guy always. 1684 01:31:53.079 --> 01:31:55.920 Sits in the chair. Yeah, that's a good question. So 1685 01:31:55.920 --> 01:31:58.720 we got fred Astaire, right, and start these four old 1686 01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:01.920 muppets that you all see there. I'm depicted in the 1687 01:32:02.079 --> 01:32:06.359 My Muppets take take the Ghost Story Invasion. There, we 1688 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:09.920 got the cast of Fred Astaire, Ricky Hawthorne. Right, we 1689 01:32:10.039 --> 01:32:13.199 got Melvin Douglas. Y'all just mentioned doctor John Jeffery. He's 1690 01:32:13.199 --> 01:32:15.359 trying to out out JJ mee, that son of a 1691 01:32:15.359 --> 01:32:20.840 bitch Douglas Fairbanks Junior Edward Charles Wanderley, and John Houseman 1692 01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:22.840 sears James Okay. 1693 01:32:22.680 --> 01:32:26.600 John Houseman is the teddy bear faced one, all right, 1694 01:32:26.640 --> 01:32:27.119 fair enough? 1695 01:32:27.479 --> 01:32:30.319 I think that's yeah. 1696 01:32:30.359 --> 01:32:38.319 And then obviously Alice Krieg is Miss Piggy for sure. 1697 01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:42.680 So when, uh, was there anything about the director or 1698 01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:45.159 executive producer? I mean it's all a little bit about 1699 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:48.159 the executive producer, but the director, he didn't really do 1700 01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:51.399 much of note or of colts or anything that's seemingly 1701 01:32:51.399 --> 01:32:53.000 of significance, to be quite honest with you. 1702 01:32:53.039 --> 01:32:56.239 Besides, yeah, I forget how he was assigned to this project. 1703 01:32:56.239 --> 01:33:01.239 I know the screenwriter, uh, Lawrence and he had done 1704 01:33:01.319 --> 01:33:05.640 the screenplay for Carrie, the film version of Carrie. Yeah, 1705 01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:08.720 really really great job with that. Yeah. And you can 1706 01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:12.359 tell that he read Ghost Story because quotes from the 1707 01:33:12.399 --> 01:33:15.079 book pop up here and there, you know, throughout the film. 1708 01:33:17.199 --> 01:33:22.319 So it's the book is so long and involved and 1709 01:33:22.359 --> 01:33:25.159 has so many different characters and situations that you can 1710 01:33:25.199 --> 01:33:27.000 see why they had to kind of fold some of 1711 01:33:27.039 --> 01:33:31.000 them into each other and abbreviate some things. Sure for 1712 01:33:31.119 --> 01:33:31.520 the movie. 1713 01:33:31.600 --> 01:33:33.520 My only question with this guy, and you all may 1714 01:33:33.560 --> 01:33:35.800 have the same kind of Julia maybe thinking the same 1715 01:33:35.840 --> 01:33:39.239 thing as well, there with your processed church understandings. What 1716 01:33:39.319 --> 01:33:41.560 was this dude doing in London in nineteen sixty four, 1717 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:43.119 Because I'd be curious to them be saying out in 1718 01:33:43.119 --> 01:33:48.000 the Mayfair district that would that the plot was thick 1719 01:33:48.039 --> 01:33:49.720 and if he's if he's linked with the process in 1720 01:33:49.760 --> 01:33:52.079 the Mayfair district in sixty four, that's all I'm saying, 1721 01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:54.600 you know what I mean? Yeah, back of that India 1722 01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:57.039 Indica cafe along with the Beatles, right. 1723 01:33:57.680 --> 01:34:01.800 Yeah, well he's the right age range, so it could yeah. 1724 01:34:01.960 --> 01:34:03.760 Right, he'd been twenty four years old the time he'd 1725 01:34:03.800 --> 01:34:09.239 been right in their wheelhouse of crew. I would imagine, yeah. Now, 1726 01:34:09.279 --> 01:34:11.159 and I just say that because like he's doing stuff 1727 01:34:11.439 --> 01:34:15.039 and broadcasting film Ember in BBC. Looks like in that timeframe, 1728 01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:18.000 right see made for TV films over there and whatnot. 1729 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:26.119 Yeah, it says something about Christopher Walking in the eighties 1730 01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:27.800 he made. 1731 01:34:27.680 --> 01:34:30.439 Yeah, so this this was his first movie. Yeah, this 1732 01:34:30.560 --> 01:34:32.520 was his first movie in America and then Ghost Story 1733 01:34:32.600 --> 01:34:33.880 was number two. But yeah, dogs of. 1734 01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:48.159 JJ you cut out jj uh Oh he's froze, are 1735 01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:50.359 you there? Yeah, you're back? You back? 1736 01:34:51.039 --> 01:34:53.319 Yeah. He also would do raw deal with that shitty 1737 01:34:53.399 --> 01:34:55.119 the shitty Belushi in Schwarzenegger. 1738 01:34:56.319 --> 01:34:58.319 Yea, I remember that one. 1739 01:35:01.079 --> 01:35:05.640 Well, you know, Christopher Walking is a whole nother podcast topic, 1740 01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:07.640 especially his weirdness with. 1741 01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:13.239 What's name Natalie Natalie would yeah, Natalie. 1742 01:35:12.960 --> 01:35:16.000 Oh yeah, for sure. This is this is a this 1743 01:35:16.039 --> 01:35:18.239 is a weird movie. This is weird. I'm reading this synopsis. 1744 01:35:18.359 --> 01:35:20.720 This is a fucking weird movie. Dude. 1745 01:35:22.079 --> 01:35:24.000 It looks like he has black face on. 1746 01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:28.760 Based on the Angola mercenary situation. 1747 01:35:28.760 --> 01:35:30.600 Like, why are they making this movie in the first place? 1748 01:35:30.720 --> 01:35:32.439 What's the And then they say that they based it 1749 01:35:32.479 --> 01:35:35.399 off of a phrase from William Shakespeare. I just feel 1750 01:35:35.399 --> 01:35:37.079 like there's a lot more to this film too, Right. 1751 01:35:38.199 --> 01:35:42.640 William Shakespeare looks like an interesting one, and I would 1752 01:35:42.680 --> 01:35:45.760 wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that, 1753 01:35:45.800 --> 01:35:47.920 you know, a lot of those mercenaries that wound up 1754 01:35:47.920 --> 01:35:53.960 in Angola, they were trained at Jonestown, the same grounds there. 1755 01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:56.000 Right, you know exactly what I'm talking about, stir This 1756 01:35:56.079 --> 01:35:58.319 is the interesting details you're picking You're picking up what 1757 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:00.399 I'm what I'm talking about there, Johnny, You're a very 1758 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:02.960 smart man. You know exactly what I'm talking about. I've 1759 01:36:02.960 --> 01:36:06.439 just been on that same note, on that same note 1760 01:36:06.479 --> 01:36:09.720 that that creepy sygh op situation or whatever the hell 1761 01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:11.399 it popped off in Minnesota over the weekend with those 1762 01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:13.319 lawmakers up there getting marked in the middle of the night. 1763 01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:17.039 That dude operates a security company out of the Congo. 1764 01:36:17.079 --> 01:36:18.319 And that's the first thing I thought of when I 1765 01:36:18.399 --> 01:36:20.319 read that detail, is what you just said there, John. 1766 01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:26.199 Yeah, Yeah, things are still happening. I think we live 1767 01:36:26.239 --> 01:36:29.359 in much more interesting times than people might generally think. 1768 01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:31.760 You know, all the crazy stuff that happened in the 1769 01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:34.720 sixties and seventies, we still we get our own versions 1770 01:36:34.760 --> 01:36:35.760 of that even today. 1771 01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:39.520 Oh, I tell you, I don't think that. I didn't 1772 01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:41.600 realize John Irvan did this film. I love this film. 1773 01:36:42.479 --> 01:36:43.760 I don't know if I've seen this one. 1774 01:36:44.079 --> 01:36:45.760 I have not seen this one. 1775 01:36:47.279 --> 01:36:50.560 To give you an abridged version, US Army Airborne Ranger 1776 01:36:51.079 --> 01:36:54.800 raised an Appalachia Truman Gates migrates Chicago to become a 1777 01:36:54.800 --> 01:36:59.159 police officer. That's Patrick Swayze. Oh, hal breaks Lucy starts 1778 01:36:59.159 --> 01:37:01.319 battling with the mob, which is Ben Stiller was like 1779 01:37:01.359 --> 01:37:04.640 the son of the Mob and in the of the Uh. 1780 01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:06.920 I don't know whatever mob was in Chicago at the time. 1781 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:11.359 I think they were taling about. Remember but Liam Neeson 1782 01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:14.439 comes in there and he gets murked spoil alert, and 1783 01:37:14.439 --> 01:37:16.760 then that's his brother, and then the whole. Then everyone 1784 01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:20.000 comes from Appalachia there in Kentucky to come Avenger's brother's 1785 01:37:20.039 --> 01:37:22.960 murdered Chicago. They start murking folks in Chicago, Appleacha style. 1786 01:37:23.199 --> 01:37:23.680 I like that. 1787 01:37:24.079 --> 01:37:24.520 I like that. 1788 01:37:25.640 --> 01:37:28.760 Well, you know, I love Bill Paxton, but I will 1789 01:37:28.920 --> 01:37:31.800 just say a lot of excitement, a lot of excitement. 1790 01:37:33.079 --> 01:37:35.960 Yeah, Bill Paxman, you got Baldwin. 1791 01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:38.119 Which bald is that? 1792 01:37:38.399 --> 01:37:40.920 That's not no, it's the non bald When Baldwin, he'll 1793 01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:41.840 recognize his face. 1794 01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:50.359 I was like, go ahead, I was just gonna say 1795 01:37:50.439 --> 01:37:52.800 if he was part of the Baldwins. I just learned 1796 01:37:52.880 --> 01:37:58.920 something very interesting about them today that their bloodline includes 1797 01:37:59.239 --> 01:38:04.319 all kinds of weird upper echelon, including like several presidents, 1798 01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:10.439 Hillary Clinton and like some weird inbred. 1799 01:38:10.439 --> 01:38:12.840 Like wait, wait, who was this? Who were we talking. 1800 01:38:12.640 --> 01:38:14.199 About the Baldwin family. 1801 01:38:15.039 --> 01:38:17.000 Oh, I'm not surprised by any of this. This makes 1802 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:17.960 sense to right, but. 1803 01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:20.720 I mean they were talking about it openly on this 1804 01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:24.680 podcast thing and shit like bragging about it, like, oh yeah, 1805 01:38:24.760 --> 01:38:29.960 we're related to you know, upper echelon and like these 1806 01:38:30.039 --> 01:38:33.640 old in bread Fox that used to have klut palettes 1807 01:38:33.720 --> 01:38:37.119 and stuff like that. And somebody wrote in the comment 1808 01:38:37.239 --> 01:38:40.560 section Bill Paxton is dead. I know, and I'm really 1809 01:38:40.600 --> 01:38:43.479 sad about that because I really loved Tim. 1810 01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:46.279 Well now that I'm now that we're considering John Urbans 1811 01:38:46.399 --> 01:38:48.960 works and he's more of an esoteric understanding here. I 1812 01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:51.199 also love Bill Paxton, by the way, he's great actor. 1813 01:38:52.359 --> 01:38:55.479 I see Joey Rosalini here is the name listed as 1814 01:38:55.560 --> 01:38:58.239 this character that kills Liambnest in that story. And that's 1815 01:38:58.359 --> 01:39:01.880 interesting because you know, Johnny Rosselli was the famous mobster 1816 01:39:01.960 --> 01:39:04.760 out of Chicago associated with the JFK Biz and a 1817 01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:06.880 lot of the other characters were discussing here within these 1818 01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:09.279 this processing kind of element, right. 1819 01:39:10.239 --> 01:39:14.880 Johnny Roselli was also tied up with Marilyn Monroe. 1820 01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:18.520 Well, that's what I'm saying. His sidekick was Frank Sinatra, 1821 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:20.920 and Frank Sinatra and the entire rat pack. In my opinion, 1822 01:39:21.279 --> 01:39:24.319 we're involved with the process, not just Mia Farrow's wife, 1823 01:39:24.399 --> 01:39:27.479 not just Sammy Davis Junior. Right, the stars of who 1824 01:39:27.560 --> 01:39:30.840 starred in Bob Cocaine, Evans and Roman Planski's cinematic shit 1825 01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:34.800 show to Satanism Rosemary's Baby. But there's more connections, and 1826 01:39:34.840 --> 01:39:37.119 I actually have those connections on deck here. But before 1827 01:39:37.159 --> 01:39:38.720 we go any further from John Irvin, do you all 1828 01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:39.800 have any more comments on him? 1829 01:39:42.199 --> 01:39:44.640 No, I don't have anything to add. 1830 01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:49.079 How about the executive producer, Bert Weissberd. 1831 01:39:50.600 --> 01:39:53.800 Is he an asshole or not? Yeah? 1832 01:39:54.039 --> 01:39:56.479 Again, he didn't really like these guys, didn't really seem 1833 01:39:56.520 --> 01:40:00.279 to do a lot of significant stuff after this film. 1834 01:40:00.760 --> 01:40:04.119 M Yeah, I just remember seeing his name in the 1835 01:40:04.199 --> 01:40:07.520 credits of the movie. But I don't know anything about him. 1836 01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:10.680 There's not much. Yeah, I couldn't find much about him either, 1837 01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:13.640 to be quite honest with you, looks like the film. 1838 01:40:13.680 --> 01:40:15.880 There was Sam Sheppard, which is interesting because he was 1839 01:40:16.079 --> 01:40:17.960 he had a thing with Patty Smith for a little while. 1840 01:40:18.119 --> 01:40:20.720 So well as you say that he started and that's 1841 01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:23.560 Sam Shepherd and he starts with with Sissy SpaceX. So 1842 01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:24.720 what do you got on Sam Shepherd? 1843 01:40:25.680 --> 01:40:28.600 Yeah, he was just he he had a brief affair 1844 01:40:28.720 --> 01:40:32.159 with with Patty Smith and they they wrote a play 1845 01:40:32.199 --> 01:40:35.800 about it, Cowboy Mouth. But they're both actually performed in 1846 01:40:35.880 --> 01:40:41.880 course that's named after Bob Dylan lyric but yeah, mainly 1847 01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:43.960 just his his association with Patti Smith. 1848 01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:46.239 There, hear me if I'm wrong, One of these cult 1849 01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:49.239 nicknames for Ronald Sisman was Sissy SpaceX. 1850 01:40:48.840 --> 01:40:51.319 Right, that's right, Yeah, that's right. 1851 01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:54.000 And Sissy SPACEK was a fore momb was she not? 1852 01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:59.960 I believe she was, And I guess my my other quote, 1853 01:41:00.079 --> 01:41:02.319 I let me let me rephrase that this would not 1854 01:41:02.399 --> 01:41:04.520 be the only Ford model connected to the sun of 1855 01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:06.279 same situation, right right right? 1856 01:41:06.399 --> 01:41:06.439 That? 1857 01:41:06.840 --> 01:41:11.479 Yeah, yeah, I believe that's where she starts off. 1858 01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:11.680 Though. 1859 01:41:11.680 --> 01:41:13.600 I was working for the Ford Modeling Agency, and if 1860 01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:16.359 I can unfuck my ability to click links here and 1861 01:41:16.680 --> 01:41:18.720 move my dubie out of the way, I'll let us 1862 01:41:18.800 --> 01:41:21.279 know that for certain. But I'm pretty there were some 1863 01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:27.399 there were some wasn't Wasn't there a Ford Modeling Agency connection? 1864 01:41:27.439 --> 01:41:29.600 What am I thinking of, besides possibly her? What was 1865 01:41:29.640 --> 01:41:30.359 going on there with that? 1866 01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:30.960 There? 1867 01:41:31.199 --> 01:41:34.439 I've heard something about that, but I'm I'm reaching back 1868 01:41:34.680 --> 01:41:37.399 years to figure out what I heard about it, and 1869 01:41:37.439 --> 01:41:39.319 I can't remember exactly what it was. But there was 1870 01:41:39.439 --> 01:41:40.079 there was. 1871 01:41:40.399 --> 01:41:42.520 Let's let's put a penn put it for a future 1872 01:41:42.560 --> 01:41:45.199 one because well, future one is in two seconds from 1873 01:41:45.239 --> 01:41:48.479 now after I read this, because in nineteen sixty under 1874 01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:51.359 the stage name Rainbow, she recorded a single John You 1875 01:41:51.439 --> 01:41:54.279 Went Too Far This Time, the lyrics of which Chida 1876 01:41:54.359 --> 01:41:56.520 John Lennon and for his Yoko Owner his new album 1877 01:41:56.640 --> 01:42:00.840 for two versions. So that's interesting. Basic worked as a 1878 01:42:01.119 --> 01:42:04.319 photographic model represented by four models. There you go, Oh, 1879 01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:08.239 there it is and is an extra Andy Warhol's right, 1880 01:42:08.359 --> 01:42:11.439 So you have more connections with the Velvet Underground. Uh, 1881 01:42:11.840 --> 01:42:14.119 allegedly linked to this through folks like Lou Reid. Right, 1882 01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:19.159 Lou was Mabel Thorpe Smith, kind of that Velvet Underground 1883 01:42:19.159 --> 01:42:19.680 Andy Warhol. 1884 01:42:19.760 --> 01:42:22.279 Next, he knew Patty and he played with her on 1885 01:42:22.399 --> 01:42:23.479 stage a couple of times. 1886 01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:24.640 Uh. 1887 01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:30.159 I'm not sure exactly how extensive Lou's involvement in this 1888 01:42:30.239 --> 01:42:32.239 stuff was, but he must have known about it, because 1889 01:42:32.279 --> 01:42:34.399 all these people were doing this stuff at that point. 1890 01:42:34.600 --> 01:42:34.760 You know. 1891 01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:37.760 Yeah, they're they're, they're They practiced at the Andy Warhol 1892 01:42:37.800 --> 01:42:40.640 studio that was there, much like the Birds did Polkas 1893 01:42:40.680 --> 01:42:44.079 the studio, right, Julia the the the Velvet Underground did 1894 01:42:44.079 --> 01:42:46.800 Andy Warhol studio. So we see the more comparisons. 1895 01:42:47.399 --> 01:42:47.720 Did you. 1896 01:42:49.319 --> 01:42:54.600 Watch men? In Black, the Third Men in Black movie with. 1897 01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:59.199 With Josh Brolin, with Josh Yeah. 1898 01:42:59.319 --> 01:43:02.119 Do you remember how they said Andy Warhol was a 1899 01:43:02.279 --> 01:43:08.520 CIA agent and all the models were, Yeah, they were extraterrestrials, 1900 01:43:08.760 --> 01:43:11.840 which I know, but I do think they were making 1901 01:43:11.920 --> 01:43:15.000 a reference to Andy Warhol being c I A for sure. 1902 01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:16.319 I don't want to do Yeah, I don't want to 1903 01:43:16.399 --> 01:43:18.000 derail this too much because you just brought in a 1904 01:43:18.039 --> 01:43:20.279 connection with his stepmother back to all these these characters 1905 01:43:20.319 --> 01:43:22.840 that brought barbart streisand however, and that was with her 1906 01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:25.279 with Warren Batty, the Young Turk. So there's a lot 1907 01:43:25.319 --> 01:43:29.359 of these connections with these with these people. Right. So well, 1908 01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:31.199 we've I think we just put a pen at least 1909 01:43:31.199 --> 01:43:33.680 in my brain hole for a future couple of conversations here. 1910 01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.199 But if we go back to John Irvin and we 1911 01:43:36.279 --> 01:43:39.760 were doing the the next tup, I guess we're we're 1912 01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:43.079 not talking about the the cast. Yeah, let's go to 1913 01:43:43.159 --> 01:43:45.479 the cast. We got obviously the most notable cast member, 1914 01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:47.760 Fred Astare. But you know, I don't know, I'd like 1915 01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:49.479 to hear what your old's thoughts are. I don't know 1916 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:51.720 that I've really I could never really I've never heard 1917 01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:54.199 a lot of creepy stories about us. There, I'm open 1918 01:43:54.279 --> 01:43:56.560 to it. I couldn't really find anything too creepy about 1919 01:43:56.600 --> 01:43:58.279 the guy, so again I'm open to it. 1920 01:43:58.399 --> 01:44:03.399 But see, yeah, I've never heard he's he's I've never 1921 01:44:03.439 --> 01:44:06.479 heard any particularly bad stories about it. The interesting thing 1922 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:10.279 about him for the role is that in the novel, 1923 01:44:11.640 --> 01:44:14.800 Peter Straub says he describes Ricky Hawthorne as looking like 1924 01:44:14.880 --> 01:44:18.279 Freda Staire, so presumably that's that's why he and Peter 1925 01:44:18.359 --> 01:44:20.560 Straub himself said that that was one of his favorite 1926 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:23.039 things about the movie was that Freda Staire played the role. 1927 01:44:24.439 --> 01:44:28.760 Wow, Okay, you know the main star is of this 1928 01:44:28.960 --> 01:44:32.720 whole story is actually really just the author, Like he 1929 01:44:33.039 --> 01:44:35.760 made this what it is, you. 1930 01:44:35.800 --> 01:44:40.279 Know, Yeah, I think it's the story could have been 1931 01:44:40.319 --> 01:44:43.159 told by somebody else, but but being told by him 1932 01:44:43.239 --> 01:44:43.960 made it special. 1933 01:44:44.199 --> 01:44:44.800 I think it did. 1934 01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:48.279 Yeah, because it's it's a really really great book and 1935 01:44:48.600 --> 01:44:54.319 it's uh, I can't think of a single more brilliant 1936 01:44:54.800 --> 01:44:59.079 author of popular fiction than Peter Stroud. But it just 1937 01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:03.479 man to know that he was aware of a lot 1938 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:07.840 of this stuff is just uh, well, yeah, came out 1939 01:45:07.960 --> 01:45:10.039 for a couple of years. Yeah, it was hard to 1940 01:45:11.079 --> 01:45:13.079 to see it in a different life that way. 1941 01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:16.119 But yeah, sure, Well I think one thing I thought 1942 01:45:16.159 --> 01:45:18.640 was interesting with Hysteric, especially because I think it's good 1943 01:45:18.720 --> 01:45:20.680 for all four of the main cast members. This is 1944 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:22.960 their last film, right, that's. 1945 01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:25.199 True, Well except for John Houseman. Yeah, he did a 1946 01:45:25.239 --> 01:45:34.920 couple more. Okay, he was the growth angry guy. 1947 01:45:35.800 --> 01:45:38.359 Oh, okay, and bring that up for you. I don't 1948 01:45:38.359 --> 01:45:40.319 know why. I don't what happened to him here hold 1949 01:45:40.359 --> 01:45:43.520 on stand By Police. Yeah, he's he's a pretty notable 1950 01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:46.279 voice and face right in Hollywood and Housman over the 1951 01:45:46.359 --> 01:45:47.000 years he was. 1952 01:45:47.119 --> 01:45:49.239 Yeah, he did a lot of commercials and he didn't 1953 01:45:49.239 --> 01:45:51.199 act until later in life. He was an acting coach 1954 01:45:51.279 --> 01:45:53.600 for a long time. He worked at UH I think 1955 01:45:53.640 --> 01:45:56.640 at Paramount. He was a good friend of Raven Chandler. 1956 01:45:57.279 --> 01:46:00.439 But he didn't act until fairly late in life. 1957 01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:03.000 Well, that's interesting, Paramount. You say. 1958 01:46:04.920 --> 01:46:06.239 He died on Halloween. 1959 01:46:07.800 --> 01:46:11.600 That's yeah, Yeah, that's weird. 1960 01:46:12.159 --> 01:46:15.640 Let's see how I don't know enough about him to 1961 01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:19.119 tell you how that went down, so essentially, well, I mean, sorry, eventually, 1962 01:46:19.159 --> 01:46:19.840 we'll get down there. 1963 01:46:20.239 --> 01:46:23.640 I think he looked pretty bad the last time I 1964 01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:24.039 saw him. 1965 01:46:24.079 --> 01:46:28.000 I can remember him, but yeah, oh yep, spinal cancer. 1966 01:46:29.039 --> 01:46:30.920 See. I didn't know he was married to Zita Johan, 1967 01:46:31.159 --> 01:46:35.359 but she was. She had a really odd mystical quality 1968 01:46:35.399 --> 01:46:37.920 about her. She was in the Mummy with Boris Karloff. 1969 01:46:38.199 --> 01:46:40.159 I had no idea that John Housman was married her, 1970 01:46:40.239 --> 01:46:42.039 but she was interesting. Interesting. 1971 01:46:42.800 --> 01:46:46.039 Yeah, he appears with some scientologists as his last film 1972 01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:53.600 looks like, yeah, yeah, Priscilla Presley and Orenthal James Simpson scientologists. 1973 01:46:55.960 --> 01:46:58.680 God, he was the driver's ed instructor in that. 1974 01:46:58.880 --> 01:47:03.560 Yeah yeah, well, me and JJ just did an episode 1975 01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:05.479 on OJ Oh. 1976 01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:07.319 Folks were loving that. Julia again, I have to thank 1977 01:47:07.319 --> 01:47:09.199 you again for even suggesting that, because the folks have 1978 01:47:09.279 --> 01:47:11.359 been enjoying that one. For sure. 1979 01:47:11.399 --> 01:47:14.439 That was a real born I enjoyed myself. Actually, that 1980 01:47:14.640 --> 01:47:18.600 was a really fun episode. I was gonna say, you know, 1981 01:47:18.960 --> 01:47:21.319 just I don't know if it's the right time to 1982 01:47:21.359 --> 01:47:23.600 bring it up or not, but you know what I thought, 1983 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:30.600 So maybe you guys. Obviously John's going to disagree because 1984 01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:32.800 he read the book and he already knew what was 1985 01:47:32.840 --> 01:47:35.640 going to happen. But JJ, didn't you think that they 1986 01:47:35.680 --> 01:47:38.319 were all going to take turns? Rape? In her and 1987 01:47:38.439 --> 01:47:41.720 then like accidentally kill her, or like knock her out 1988 01:47:41.920 --> 01:47:44.199 and then or like hold a pillow over her face 1989 01:47:44.319 --> 01:47:44.960 or something like. 1990 01:47:45.199 --> 01:47:46.880 Yeah, I mean it is the eighties. It seemed like 1991 01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:48.359 the rape the era of films. 1992 01:47:48.399 --> 01:47:50.960 So I agree with you, but like, you know what 1993 01:47:51.039 --> 01:47:53.960 I'm saying, there there's another I mean, like you couldn't. 1994 01:47:53.640 --> 01:47:55.199 Make Porky's in this day and age, right, you know 1995 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:55.479 what I mean? 1996 01:47:55.520 --> 01:47:58.960 It was very rapey, right, right, Well, it just it 1997 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:01.239 looked like all all of them had a crush on 1998 01:48:01.479 --> 01:48:06.760 the main character, right, and they all wanted her, but 1999 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:09.960 she was only interested in one of them. So that 2000 01:48:10.159 --> 01:48:12.199 scene at the end where they're all trying to take 2001 01:48:12.279 --> 01:48:14.399 turns dancing with her, I was like, Oh, I know 2002 01:48:14.479 --> 01:48:17.000 what's gonna happen. They're gonna take turns rape in her, 2003 01:48:17.279 --> 01:48:20.319 They're gonna accidentally kill her, and that's gonna be why 2004 01:48:20.840 --> 01:48:23.399 her ghost is coming back to get revenges because they 2005 01:48:23.520 --> 01:48:25.800 raped her and killed her. Sure, she didn't go as 2006 01:48:25.960 --> 01:48:28.439 sinister as what I thought it would. 2007 01:48:28.800 --> 01:48:31.600 Well, I don't know though, if I made just interject 2008 01:48:31.640 --> 01:48:33.239 when they were dancing with her, I took that as 2009 01:48:33.359 --> 01:48:35.159 them having sex with her. So you saw three of 2010 01:48:35.239 --> 01:48:36.880 the four have sex with her in my opinion, because 2011 01:48:36.880 --> 01:48:38.239 three of the four danced with her, right. 2012 01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:42.399 But it didn't show them having sex with her, right. 2013 01:48:42.439 --> 01:48:44.039 But I'm saying it was a metaphorical I think that 2014 01:48:44.239 --> 01:48:45.760 to me, that was the metaphor that they were all 2015 01:48:45.840 --> 01:48:48.640 hooking up with homegirl and they're passing around because they 2016 01:48:48.680 --> 01:48:50.520 were all you know, it's like the song from the 2017 01:48:50.560 --> 01:48:53.560 eighties with the Billy Idol dancing with myself. It's about masturbation, 2018 01:48:53.680 --> 01:48:54.079 you know what I mean. 2019 01:48:54.680 --> 01:48:57.960 Well, yeah, but there is another horror movie. That's why 2020 01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:00.520 I say I feel like this book that got turned 2021 01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:03.880 into a movie obviously was the predecessor for the idea 2022 01:49:03.960 --> 01:49:07.600 of several several several future horror films. One of them 2023 01:49:08.239 --> 01:49:11.680 is called Stir of Echoes. It actually has Kevin Bacon. 2024 01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:13.399 It's one of my favorite horror movies. 2025 01:49:14.720 --> 01:49:16.520 Kevin Bacon, ma'am the Kevin. 2026 01:49:16.439 --> 01:49:21.079 Yeah, the Kevin Bacon. And it's basically, this girl gets 2027 01:49:21.199 --> 01:49:23.880 raped by a bunch of dudes and they accidentally kill her, 2028 01:49:23.960 --> 01:49:26.159 and they hide her body somewhere and she comes back 2029 01:49:26.199 --> 01:49:28.640 as a ghost and haunts them all and is trying 2030 01:49:28.680 --> 01:49:29.119 to kill her. 2031 01:49:29.720 --> 01:49:34.399 That sounds very very ghost story in a novel, she's 2032 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:37.439 much more predatory. She gets drunk and she insists that 2033 01:49:37.520 --> 01:49:39.640 they all drink and dance with and they're like starting 2034 01:49:39.720 --> 01:49:43.439 to recoil from her, but she's being really vicious and awful, 2035 01:49:43.960 --> 01:49:46.439 and she grabs Jeffery and says, kiss me a little 2036 01:49:46.479 --> 01:49:48.319 toad and all that stuff that she says in the movie. 2037 01:49:48.600 --> 01:49:50.359 And then one of them pushes her away, just like, 2038 01:49:50.800 --> 01:49:53.079 you know, because they're all awkward and young, you know. 2039 01:49:53.199 --> 01:49:55.840 And yeah, they start to be repulsed by her, and 2040 01:49:55.880 --> 01:49:58.279 one of them pushes her away, not meaning to her, 2041 01:49:58.520 --> 01:49:59.760 but that's when she hits her head. 2042 01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:04.279 Yeah, Yeah, that there in lies their curse of this lady, 2043 01:50:04.319 --> 01:50:07.199 not the curse of Robert the dollmind you, which I 2044 01:50:07.720 --> 01:50:12.399 you know, like a curse nonetheless, And and before if 2045 01:50:12.439 --> 01:50:14.600 I may, before we go deep dive into the full 2046 01:50:14.680 --> 01:50:17.199 storyline there and how these things unfold, if we could 2047 01:50:17.239 --> 01:50:20.000 just finish off going over these four actors that comprise 2048 01:50:20.079 --> 01:50:24.760 these roles. Here we mentioned Melvin Douglas. He's one of 2049 01:50:24.800 --> 01:50:26.520 the he's the next guy. He's the doctor, right, he's 2050 01:50:26.520 --> 01:50:30.960 the Jaffery guy. Yeah, what are your thoughts on why 2051 01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:33.479 this guy was cast? Was there any specific reasons or 2052 01:50:33.479 --> 01:50:35.359 anything else. He did that the Caltural's eyes. 2053 01:50:37.640 --> 01:50:40.800 Uh, I'm guessing he was. He had been in The Changeling, 2054 01:50:41.039 --> 01:50:44.399 another horror film, yeah, a year earlier, and that's they 2055 01:50:44.439 --> 01:50:47.279 were probably thinking about the casting for that film. That's 2056 01:50:47.319 --> 01:50:48.000 a really good one. 2057 01:50:48.680 --> 01:50:51.960 Is the Is that the same Changeling that would that 2058 01:50:52.159 --> 01:50:56.600 would later get remade with uh Angeline and jo. 2059 01:50:56.640 --> 01:50:59.840 Lee I'm not sure, Oh that I don't know. 2060 01:51:00.359 --> 01:51:03.359 Same name though, right, yeah, it's the same name. I'm 2061 01:51:03.439 --> 01:51:06.960 just curious as to if it this was the original 2062 01:51:07.039 --> 01:51:09.720 and the one that Angeline and Joelie did was a 2063 01:51:09.840 --> 01:51:12.960 remake because the one that she's in was about child 2064 01:51:13.079 --> 01:51:15.600 trafficking and program serial killers. 2065 01:51:17.279 --> 01:51:19.279 That's this one, right, Yeah, it's a different plot line. 2066 01:51:19.760 --> 01:51:23.920 Yeah, like a straight haunted house movie. 2067 01:51:24.399 --> 01:51:29.119 But it was written well, so Melvioln Douglason that that'll 2068 01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:32.479 be an interesting one to check out. And then was 2069 01:51:32.960 --> 01:51:34.319 was there anything else that jump out you with? 2070 01:51:34.439 --> 01:51:38.800 The with old mill here, he's like a classically handsome 2071 01:51:39.399 --> 01:51:41.359 guy for the era. 2072 01:51:41.680 --> 01:51:43.399 Do you mean handsome. 2073 01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:48.199 Handsome? 2074 01:51:49.239 --> 01:51:50.840 No, you know what I mean, like Rock Hudson, you 2075 01:51:50.880 --> 01:51:53.119 know what I mean. He famously joined scientology of the 2076 01:51:53.119 --> 01:51:55.279 same kind of era of acting, and you know, hide 2077 01:51:55.319 --> 01:51:57.199 his homosexual activities. 2078 01:51:56.760 --> 01:51:59.560 Right, you know that cod of down there's definitely some 2079 01:51:59.720 --> 01:52:00.800 of the There's always going to. 2080 01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:05.600 Be some of that, right right. He just kind of 2081 01:52:05.680 --> 01:52:07.439 he struck me as a very rock huts and type 2082 01:52:07.479 --> 01:52:08.600 of character, is what I'm saying. 2083 01:52:09.079 --> 01:52:09.520 Mm hmm. 2084 01:52:11.000 --> 01:52:12.880 So the one thing I found most interesting about this 2085 01:52:12.960 --> 01:52:17.439 guy is he did a film called Be There, Be 2086 01:52:17.600 --> 01:52:22.039 There with Peter Sellers, famously of the Ciela Drive Manson Tate. 2087 01:52:22.079 --> 01:52:25.800 Plansky processed church situation out there in Siella Drive that 2088 01:52:25.920 --> 01:52:29.079 culminated the Manson family murders. Peter Sellers was the regular 2089 01:52:29.680 --> 01:52:32.359 and so was the director of this film. That was 2090 01:52:32.479 --> 01:52:35.439 Ruman Plansky's best friend, Jerry cool Zenski. 2091 01:52:37.720 --> 01:52:40.920 So he's Besti's with all those fucks. 2092 01:52:40.640 --> 01:52:43.880 Huh, Jerry Kazinsky. Right here you go. This was this 2093 01:52:44.119 --> 01:52:47.039 was the best friend born and Paul and this is 2094 01:52:47.119 --> 01:52:51.520 best friends of old Ruman Polanski. You know Rouman Plansky, 2095 01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:53.800 friends with old Cocaine Bob Roman Plansk. 2096 01:52:53.960 --> 01:52:55.359 Oh, here we go. 2097 01:52:58.399 --> 01:53:01.000 I saw being there, but it was years and I 2098 01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:02.399 would have been a little kid when I saw it. 2099 01:53:02.439 --> 01:53:03.920 So I don't remember much about it, but I do. 2100 01:53:04.239 --> 01:53:05.880 Yeah, I don't know much about either. I mean it 2101 01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:08.800 says it's a satirical comedy drama, which is an odd 2102 01:53:08.880 --> 01:53:14.399 phrasing of a genre of words in my opinion. So 2103 01:53:14.600 --> 01:53:17.520 Peter Sellers, y'all know about him relative to the Manson 2104 01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:20.840 situation in the process seeing out There and La in 2105 01:53:20.920 --> 01:53:22.000 sixty nine sixties. 2106 01:53:22.840 --> 01:53:27.199 Yeah, I've read about it in Dave Mcowan's work. 2107 01:53:27.680 --> 01:53:29.039 Well, there you go. What do you recall from that? 2108 01:53:29.079 --> 01:53:31.439 Because he was very tight right with this is? This 2109 01:53:31.600 --> 01:53:34.520 is Peter Sellers with Sharon Tate and Christmas is sixty eight. 2110 01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:39.359 Yea, I somehow, maybe I'm fucking this up. But wasn't 2111 01:53:39.399 --> 01:53:43.840 he also somehow friends with the Wonderland Avenue people too? 2112 01:53:44.680 --> 01:53:46.520 Oh? That that would be interesting. I'm not sure that 2113 01:53:46.600 --> 01:53:47.560 would be interesting though. 2114 01:53:47.760 --> 01:53:49.119 Maybe I'm remembering wrong. 2115 01:53:49.239 --> 01:53:51.960 Maybe I'm remembering the whole scene. That's the whole scene now, 2116 01:53:51.960 --> 01:53:53.960 I mean, that's those people were integrating the whole scene 2117 01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:56.039 come the seventies, right, Yeah. 2118 01:53:55.920 --> 01:53:58.359 Like he bought drugs from them or something. I don't know. 2119 01:53:59.000 --> 01:54:02.760 That wouldn't I wouldn't be right, Yeah, I would say 2120 01:54:05.119 --> 01:54:09.000 most people, now go ahead. 2121 01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:12.439 I was just gonna say. Somebody put in the comments. Yeah, 2122 01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:16.319 Peter Sellers was a cruel psychopath behind closed doors, much 2123 01:54:16.520 --> 01:54:18.800 like how they describe Frank. 2124 01:54:18.720 --> 01:54:23.920 Zappa among other same scene though, right these guys, right, 2125 01:54:25.600 --> 01:54:28.520 I mean sailors, I mean sellers. So amongst these, uh, 2126 01:54:29.079 --> 01:54:31.800 the various videos and pornographies, et cetera that we're allegedly 2127 01:54:31.840 --> 01:54:34.239 filmed at Seela Drive, Sellers was deep in that mix, 2128 01:54:34.279 --> 01:54:37.279 apparently along with folks like I mentioned before, Josh Brown, 2129 01:54:37.279 --> 01:54:39.279 stepmother's old boyfriend, Warren Batty. 2130 01:54:40.680 --> 01:54:44.000 Oh, Warren Baty, don't get me started on him. 2131 01:54:46.199 --> 01:54:49.760 Best Buds Kissinger and cocaine Bob national Security never looks 2132 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:51.720 so sleazy. I like that. I like that phrasing. Todd 2133 01:54:51.760 --> 01:54:54.359 Miller appreciate that. So yeah, I think it's odd you 2134 01:54:54.439 --> 01:54:56.840 see this deep connection with all these kind of even 2135 01:54:56.880 --> 01:54:58.880 within this film, right, you got these people that you know, 2136 01:54:59.079 --> 01:55:00.680 you got Jerry because thence you in the orbit you 2137 01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:03.439 got Peter Sellers in the orbit of of uh what's 2138 01:55:03.479 --> 01:55:06.399 his name, Uh, Melvin Douglas. 2139 01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:11.399 Well, it's kind of like guilt by association, right, Your 2140 01:55:11.560 --> 01:55:16.960 friends circle is got it's weird, you know. 2141 01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:19.840 The Beatles and Stones and Keith Richards living next to 2142 01:55:20.199 --> 01:55:24.960 h John Phillips and yeah, yeah, m hmm. 2143 01:55:25.760 --> 01:55:27.840 So the next the last guy we got here is 2144 01:55:27.880 --> 01:55:30.920 the main the main four old dudes is Douglas Fairbanks Junior. 2145 01:55:31.880 --> 01:55:33.479 Yeah, ned the mayor. 2146 01:55:34.079 --> 01:55:39.319 Yeah, I got something interesting please. It says his first 2147 01:55:39.880 --> 01:55:43.119 marriage was to actress Joan Crawford. Isn't she the one 2148 01:55:43.159 --> 01:55:45.880 that beat her kids up and locked him in rooms 2149 01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:47.239 and beat him with hangers and ship? 2150 01:55:48.079 --> 01:55:48.319 Ship? 2151 01:55:48.439 --> 01:55:48.760 Okay? 2152 01:55:50.239 --> 01:55:56.000 Yeah, yeah, you've never seen Mommy Dearest JJ. No, well 2153 01:55:56.159 --> 01:56:00.439 you're fucking up, because that is an amazing movie and 2154 01:56:00.720 --> 01:56:03.479 there's a lot of quotable lines from that movie. But yeah, 2155 01:56:03.560 --> 01:56:06.640 she adopted two kids and then just beat the shit 2156 01:56:06.760 --> 01:56:09.720 out of them their entire life, just beat the ship 2157 01:56:10.479 --> 01:56:12.880 and she would handcuff them to the bed at night, 2158 01:56:13.680 --> 01:56:18.479 all kinds of stuff. A psycho and I always. 2159 01:56:18.239 --> 01:56:19.640 Thought she was one of the people that you could 2160 01:56:19.680 --> 01:56:23.720 tell just looking at her that something was a little off, 2161 01:56:24.199 --> 01:56:24.319 you know. 2162 01:56:24.479 --> 01:56:29.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, JJ, you need to watch that because 2163 01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:32.760 I even put I even took something from this movie 2164 01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:35.239 and I put it into my intro for my podcast 2165 01:56:37.000 --> 01:56:39.279 because it's just so iconic. But anyways, yeah, she was 2166 01:56:39.319 --> 01:56:44.239 horrible to her children who she adopted, and she was 2167 01:56:44.319 --> 01:56:47.079 in the Have you ever seen a weird horror movie 2168 01:56:47.239 --> 01:56:49.039 from back then called Baby Jane. 2169 01:56:50.479 --> 01:56:51.399 I've actually heard of that. 2170 01:56:51.600 --> 01:56:53.399 Yeah, whatever happened to Baby Jane? 2171 01:56:53.640 --> 01:56:54.880 Whatever happened to Baby Jane? 2172 01:56:54.960 --> 01:56:56.960 One of my fav're talking about. 2173 01:56:57.720 --> 01:57:01.239 She's in it, And the first time I watched it, 2174 01:57:01.399 --> 01:57:03.159 my mom was like, oh, do you know the true 2175 01:57:03.199 --> 01:57:05.359 story about what she did to her kids? And then 2176 01:57:05.439 --> 01:57:10.159 we hadammidarist after that. But yeah, Jill Crawford real fucked up. 2177 01:57:12.399 --> 01:57:14.399 I'm definitely gonna be watching that. I appreciate that, thank you. 2178 01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:15.560 Mm hmmm. 2179 01:57:16.359 --> 01:57:19.000 So what else did her? So what these weren't This 2180 01:57:19.159 --> 01:57:21.039 wasn't the dad of that right now? 2181 01:57:23.239 --> 01:57:23.359 Uh? 2182 01:57:23.920 --> 01:57:26.760 No, no, you talked about her kids? 2183 01:57:27.479 --> 01:57:28.920 Yeah, her kids? 2184 01:57:29.439 --> 01:57:29.640 Yeah? 2185 01:57:30.279 --> 01:57:32.439 Okay, oh that's right. You just said that. You just 2186 01:57:32.479 --> 01:57:32.760 said that. 2187 01:57:33.399 --> 01:57:35.840 Well, that's what makes it worse is because like she 2188 01:57:36.079 --> 01:57:39.399 hated kids, So why the fuck would you go and 2189 01:57:39.520 --> 01:57:40.920 adopt two kids? 2190 01:57:41.239 --> 01:57:44.000 I think that public image because she was seen as 2191 01:57:44.079 --> 01:57:47.079 kind of a brittle, unpleasant sort of person, and they 2192 01:57:47.159 --> 01:57:49.119 told her, you know, if you had some kids, it 2193 01:57:49.159 --> 01:57:51.000 would improve. 2194 01:57:50.680 --> 01:57:54.960 Your public image, right, and so she basically jj she 2195 01:57:55.039 --> 01:57:58.159 would like John Banam and like dress them up in 2196 01:57:58.279 --> 01:58:01.560 Christmas outfits and stuff, like parade them around like they 2197 01:58:01.600 --> 01:58:05.039 were so happy, and you know, and the kids were 2198 01:58:05.119 --> 01:58:07.720 just getting tied up at night and beat with hangars 2199 01:58:07.880 --> 01:58:10.960 and all kinds of stuff. It's it's crazy, it's crazy. 2200 01:58:10.760 --> 01:58:14.039 Word out huh yeah mmmm, worn outer kids. So this 2201 01:58:14.119 --> 01:58:16.920 is what I found interesting about Fairbanks. During World War Two, 2202 01:58:17.239 --> 01:58:19.760 he served as a commissioned officer in the US Navy 2203 01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:22.399 and enter World War two and assigned a Lord Mountain 2204 01:58:22.399 --> 01:58:24.479 Batten's commando staff in the United Kingdom. 2205 01:58:26.800 --> 01:58:29.439 And he married a psychopath that beats her kids. 2206 01:58:30.000 --> 01:58:32.840 Right, Oh, you'll like this one. Also, he was he 2207 01:58:32.960 --> 01:58:35.399 was later implicated in the Profumo scandal. 2208 01:58:36.319 --> 01:58:41.079 That's yeah, yeah, that's pretty much a direct connection to 2209 01:58:41.159 --> 01:58:41.680 the process. 2210 01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:44.600 Yeah yeah. I mean it's long been suspected that Marianda 2211 01:58:44.600 --> 01:58:46.560 Grimston was one of the prostitutes in that scandal, but 2212 01:58:46.600 --> 01:58:49.720 it's not been confirmed, but there is heavy suspicions of such. Yep. 2213 01:58:50.479 --> 01:58:55.760 So he's the most interesting actor thus far, between him 2214 01:58:55.800 --> 01:58:56.840 and Douglas my. 2215 01:58:56.880 --> 01:58:57.840 Opinion, you know those two. 2216 01:58:58.039 --> 01:59:00.359 Yeah, yeah, sure. 2217 01:59:00.840 --> 01:59:02.880 So we get back into the plotline of the film. 2218 01:59:02.920 --> 01:59:06.000 As we said, these four old men, uh sensibly at 2219 01:59:06.079 --> 01:59:08.279 least metaphorically speaking of the film, seemed to have raped 2220 01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:10.359 this young woman and she John. As you mentioned, she 2221 01:59:10.479 --> 01:59:12.720 falls down and and they think she's dead because she 2222 01:59:12.760 --> 01:59:17.119 gets her head right, that's right. Yeah, this is the 2223 01:59:17.199 --> 01:59:20.960 witchy woman that looks like Suzanne Conway, right, Alma right right, 2224 01:59:21.720 --> 01:59:22.039 or or. 2225 01:59:22.119 --> 01:59:26.319 Eva her name is at that time, right, And it's 2226 01:59:26.720 --> 01:59:28.479 I hate to keep bringing this up, but it's just 2227 01:59:28.640 --> 01:59:32.920 so there are so many points that there was a 2228 01:59:33.000 --> 01:59:36.840 real Eva, and the character who appears later in the 2229 01:59:37.600 --> 01:59:41.079 Who the Chatter society consults to see if he can 2230 01:59:41.119 --> 01:59:44.199 solve their problems is done well, there were a real 2231 01:59:44.319 --> 01:59:47.640 Don and Eva. In the book, they're called Don Wanderley 2232 01:59:47.760 --> 01:59:48.600 and Eva Galley. 2233 01:59:51.159 --> 01:59:51.359 Yeah. 2234 01:59:51.479 --> 01:59:54.680 The real Don was Don Warner, the guy who directed 2235 01:59:54.720 --> 01:59:57.199 the play that Suzanne Conway was in, and he had 2236 01:59:57.239 --> 02:00:03.720 a wife named Eva. That's how specific Straub's references were. 2237 02:00:04.399 --> 02:00:06.720 You ain't kidding, dude. That's that's like on the money, 2238 02:00:06.760 --> 02:00:07.560 on the money. 2239 02:00:07.560 --> 02:00:12.359 It really is. Yeah, yeah, and that's right, Marie, it 2240 02:00:12.479 --> 02:00:13.079 was yeah. 2241 02:00:13.279 --> 02:00:18.920 Yeah, yeah, dude. I mean at some point, like what, 2242 02:00:19.039 --> 02:00:20.760 at what point in time did you consider like that 2243 02:00:20.840 --> 02:00:24.039 Strawb obviously knew a lot about this, like how many 2244 02:00:24.119 --> 02:00:26.199 details of these before you're like, wait a second, this 2245 02:00:26.359 --> 02:00:28.239 is something's going on here. 2246 02:00:30.079 --> 02:00:35.159 You know, it was maybe late twenty twenty. I was 2247 02:00:35.239 --> 02:00:38.520 rereading it for Halloween, like I do every year most years, 2248 02:00:38.840 --> 02:00:44.479 and it was I was sitting in my chair one 2249 02:00:44.560 --> 02:00:48.720 night and he was talking about neighborhoods in different places 2250 02:00:48.960 --> 02:00:52.319 in this fictional city of Melbourne, and because I had 2251 02:00:52.359 --> 02:00:54.720 been doing research, I just realized that every place he's 2252 02:00:54.720 --> 02:00:57.039 talking about is just a Yonker's reference, like all the 2253 02:00:57.119 --> 02:01:01.159 street names. There's a minor character the book named Venudi. 2254 02:01:01.279 --> 02:01:05.119 He's the pharmacist. It's a reference to Jovinudi, who is 2255 02:01:05.159 --> 02:01:08.039 a political figure in Westchester in the forties and fifties. 2256 02:01:08.239 --> 02:01:11.159 It's just just one reference after another. But it's the 2257 02:01:11.239 --> 02:01:13.279 kind of thing that people aren't going to realize until 2258 02:01:13.319 --> 02:01:17.720 they're doing, you know, extensive newspaper research, like often tedious, 2259 02:01:18.359 --> 02:01:20.760 but that's how I go across all those names. 2260 02:01:21.359 --> 02:01:23.880 Well, relative to that Wanderley guy you were just talking 2261 02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:26.479 about there, it says you're in your blog post. In 2262 02:01:26.560 --> 02:01:29.960 the book's prologue, a man named Don Wanderley has kidnapped 2263 02:01:29.960 --> 02:01:32.520 a young orphan girl from a park in Melbourne. It's 2264 02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:35.039 down in New York State. He drives her to Panama City, 2265 02:01:35.439 --> 02:01:37.520 which is the location of where John car was station. 2266 02:01:37.640 --> 02:01:39.920 It says, that's right, that's right. Yeah. 2267 02:01:41.159 --> 02:01:43.800 I just wanted to say this comment you got posted, 2268 02:01:44.279 --> 02:01:47.520 Todd said, I learned everything about the Dutro scandal from 2269 02:01:47.600 --> 02:01:51.000 Julia's show. Great work, Julia, just want to say that 2270 02:01:51.159 --> 02:01:54.880 comment means the world to me because I worked tirelessly 2271 02:01:55.079 --> 02:01:58.840 on that presentation for Program to Kill. I spent months 2272 02:01:59.560 --> 02:02:03.880 pudding that presentation together. So thank you, Todd. And the 2273 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:06.800 stuff we're talking about today is no different. I mean 2274 02:02:07.319 --> 02:02:11.840 all of this, this stuff, this the references he's making 2275 02:02:11.920 --> 02:02:15.880 in this book, referencing real life stuff. They loved. It's 2276 02:02:15.960 --> 02:02:17.680 like a sick joke to these people. 2277 02:02:17.840 --> 02:02:21.319 They think that it really is. Yeah, they think it's funny. 2278 02:02:22.920 --> 02:02:26.079 You'll laugh about it, right, Yeah. They think I covered 2279 02:02:26.079 --> 02:02:28.960 all this in Dragnet. I didn't know. I'm sorry, go ahead, Julia. 2280 02:02:29.560 --> 02:02:31.800 No, I was just gonna say. They think it's absolutely 2281 02:02:31.880 --> 02:02:35.520 hysterical that we just watch movies and read books and 2282 02:02:36.479 --> 02:02:38.920 you know, it's right in front of our face and 2283 02:02:39.000 --> 02:02:41.960 we'll just never know, especially what John was talking about 2284 02:02:42.000 --> 02:02:44.920 earlier with that guy's last name, Like, who else is 2285 02:02:45.039 --> 02:02:46.039 going to put that together? 2286 02:02:46.920 --> 02:02:50.039 Yes, Pacaula, Yeah, so I totally agree with you. I 2287 02:02:50.119 --> 02:02:53.279 totally agree with you. So the I did a Nicolet 2288 02:02:53.479 --> 02:02:55.680 esoteric review a number of weeks back on Dragnet. So 2289 02:02:55.760 --> 02:02:58.359 folks to the interwebs or John or jolly of you 2290 02:02:58.399 --> 02:02:59.359 folks want to check it out. 2291 02:03:03.560 --> 02:03:12.720 Uh oh j Keith Frousin, Yeah, he'll probably be making 2292 02:03:12.760 --> 02:03:13.840 a second yep. 2293 02:03:15.399 --> 02:03:18.359 In my back, My back, my back, Yeah, you're back. 2294 02:03:19.000 --> 02:03:21.920 It's a nineteen eighty seven cinematic masterpiece, Dragnet and Cult. 2295 02:03:21.920 --> 02:03:24.560 An esoteric review where we go over the elements of 2296 02:03:24.640 --> 02:03:27.600 the process being told there. And I'll just use to 2297 02:03:28.159 --> 02:03:30.560 emphasize my point, I'll bring up one one character from 2298 02:03:30.600 --> 02:03:33.520 the film and show you the murder of Roy Raidin. Right, 2299 02:03:33.680 --> 02:03:36.600 So back to back to my favorite character here at 2300 02:03:36.640 --> 02:03:41.840 Operation GCD, not Cocaine Bob Boy. He was the unindicted 2301 02:03:41.920 --> 02:03:44.520 co conspirator in the murder of Roy Raiden, so the 2302 02:03:45.199 --> 02:03:48.199 one of the co the convicted murders. And that the 2303 02:03:48.279 --> 02:03:52.159 hitman that that he allegedly hired was a fellow by 2304 02:03:52.239 --> 02:03:54.479 named William Menzer, the guy that as John will tell 2305 02:03:54.520 --> 02:03:57.119 you what, Who's William Menszer? John? Help me out with that? 2306 02:03:58.239 --> 02:04:01.199 He had along, he had a background. He apparently was 2307 02:04:01.279 --> 02:04:03.560 pretty serious about his occultism. 2308 02:04:03.720 --> 02:04:04.079 He was. 2309 02:04:06.159 --> 02:04:09.159 He's been alleged to have been involved with Son of Sam, 2310 02:04:09.279 --> 02:04:11.680 particularly the Christine Freud murder. He was supposed to have 2311 02:04:11.680 --> 02:04:13.680 been on the scene there, if not the actual shooter. 2312 02:04:15.720 --> 02:04:17.880 And he's well, he has a he's another one of 2313 02:04:17.880 --> 02:04:19.920 these people. He's a movie into himself. 2314 02:04:21.159 --> 02:04:22.119 That you ain't kidding. 2315 02:04:22.479 --> 02:04:25.720 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was mentioned in Program to 2316 02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:32.199 Kill as being like they linked him somehow to being 2317 02:04:32.279 --> 02:04:36.760 an offshoot of like after the Manson family murders went down, 2318 02:04:37.279 --> 02:04:42.119 there was the Common Club, yeah, and then this guy yeah, 2319 02:04:42.720 --> 02:04:46.199 uh huh, all process offshoot kind of weirdos. 2320 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:48.720 So one of the other things he was notorious for 2321 02:04:48.960 --> 02:04:52.439 was being the security guard and chauffeur of Larry Flint. Yeah, 2322 02:04:52.640 --> 02:04:55.640 And in the nineteen eighty seven cinematic Masterpiece were introduced 2323 02:04:55.680 --> 02:04:59.479 to jack O Hallahan's character Imo muzz He is the 2324 02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:03.520 security guard and driver of the pornographer in the film, 2325 02:05:03.560 --> 02:05:06.520 which is part a machination of what I would argue 2326 02:05:06.600 --> 02:05:10.399 is Larry Flint and and uh Hugh Hefner. But he 2327 02:05:11.000 --> 02:05:14.079 he's also a major figure in the cult that is 2328 02:05:14.159 --> 02:05:17.399 Siege that has taken a siege of Los Angeles and 2329 02:05:17.520 --> 02:05:22.279 co opted politicians, attorneys, police, police folks, including the commissioner. Right, 2330 02:05:22.439 --> 02:05:24.680 And it's all run by a guy who's doing this. 2331 02:05:25.520 --> 02:05:28.199 He's the head of the Christian organization in town fighting 2332 02:05:28.239 --> 02:05:30.600 all this. He's the head of the Satanist organization, the 2333 02:05:30.760 --> 02:05:32.880 pagan cult that has sieged it. And he's part of 2334 02:05:32.960 --> 02:05:36.039 that cult. And Bill Mentzer just happened to be the 2335 02:05:36.159 --> 02:05:41.359 driver and chauffeur of Larry Flint. And Bill Metzer just 2336 02:05:41.479 --> 02:05:45.880 happens to look identical to Emmaus. So you tell me 2337 02:05:45.960 --> 02:05:47.600 if they're if they're telling us a tale that one, 2338 02:05:47.640 --> 02:05:50.359 you know what I mean, Like. 2339 02:05:50.800 --> 02:05:53.439 Somebody who wrote the stuff knew exactly what was happening, 2340 02:05:53.479 --> 02:05:54.840 and they knew who the players. 2341 02:05:54.520 --> 02:05:59.640 Were to speak. You see what I'm saying, how much 2342 02:05:59.760 --> 02:06:01.199 you no, I agree to her, but you see how 2343 02:06:01.239 --> 02:06:04.039 much these dudes look. I mean, they played the same role. 2344 02:06:04.359 --> 02:06:07.800 Ash, come on, and they're playing like the same he's 2345 02:06:07.880 --> 02:06:09.199 playing the real guy. 2346 02:06:09.560 --> 02:06:10.159 You know what I mean? 2347 02:06:10.760 --> 02:06:13.079 And oh, haller hand don't look anything like like they had. 2348 02:06:13.239 --> 02:06:14.760 This is all made up with the hair and the 2349 02:06:14.920 --> 02:06:18.279 mustache they gave to him there So and it's interesting 2350 02:06:18.399 --> 02:06:19.840 because this is what I like the joke when you 2351 02:06:20.000 --> 02:06:21.640 this is what reminded me of this You all were 2352 02:06:21.680 --> 02:06:24.640 talking about the bragging. So Bob Cocaine Evans went and 2353 02:06:24.720 --> 02:06:27.680 saw the film Wag the Dog, right with Dustin Hoffman, 2354 02:06:28.319 --> 02:06:30.560 and when he this is nineteen ninety seven, he walks 2355 02:06:30.560 --> 02:06:33.079 out of the film and the uh, he's asked by 2356 02:06:33.119 --> 02:06:35.880 you know, the premiere, He's asked by the paparazzi, you know, 2357 02:06:36.199 --> 02:06:38.479 what do you think of the film, And in old 2358 02:06:38.520 --> 02:06:41.680 Cocaine Bob Fantoausy replies, I thought I looked great on 2359 02:06:41.760 --> 02:06:44.880 the big screen because Dustin Hoffman is playing a Hollywood 2360 02:06:44.880 --> 02:06:48.199 producer who's doing a Bob Cocaine Evans character, right, yeah, 2361 02:06:49.720 --> 02:06:52.000 and they're all every yeah, everything, And I would I 2362 02:06:52.039 --> 02:06:54.439 would argue that they're that whole film is a satirical 2363 02:06:54.560 --> 02:06:58.199 take of them bragging and laughing on these fella's relationship 2364 02:06:58.560 --> 02:07:01.840 because de Niro hero was a man who Evans made 2365 02:07:01.880 --> 02:07:05.720 his career. He made Hoffman's career. And de Niro plays 2366 02:07:05.760 --> 02:07:08.119 a you know, not necessarily a national security council. 2367 02:07:15.119 --> 02:07:19.920 In my froze my back, my back, so I didn't 2368 02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:22.199 know if it was me or you. Yeah, you're you're back. 2369 02:07:22.800 --> 02:07:26.359 Yeah. So Evans makes both de Niro in Hoffman's careers. 2370 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:28.960 Hoffmann's playing a ceturial take on I just think that 2371 02:07:29.039 --> 02:07:30.720 de Niro is doing the kind of a cterial take 2372 02:07:30.800 --> 02:07:33.920 on Henry Kissinger there. But nonetheless he walks out of 2373 02:07:33.960 --> 02:07:35.760 the theater and says, I thought it looked great. So 2374 02:07:36.359 --> 02:07:38.520 when this film came out in nineteen eighty seven, I 2375 02:07:38.640 --> 02:07:41.439 often wonder if this fellow, who was not arrested until 2376 02:07:41.479 --> 02:07:43.880 August of eighty eight, walked out of that same film 2377 02:07:43.920 --> 02:07:45.560 and said, I thought I looked great on the big screen. 2378 02:07:46.479 --> 02:07:48.520 I bet he did, you know, because they said too 2379 02:07:48.600 --> 02:07:50.880 when he was when he was arrested, they found a 2380 02:07:50.960 --> 02:07:54.960 copy of Maury's book and it had his parts underlining 2381 02:07:55.039 --> 02:07:57.840 the book. And he told somebody that they in this 2382 02:07:57.960 --> 02:08:00.520 book they described what I did as a perfect which 2383 02:08:00.600 --> 02:08:04.760 wasn't actually true. But he he had that conscious vanity 2384 02:08:04.760 --> 02:08:07.560 about himself that when he knew he was being written 2385 02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:10.199 about or depicted in the movie, he was he knew 2386 02:08:10.239 --> 02:08:12.520 about it, you know, he was, he was happy about it. 2387 02:08:15.039 --> 02:08:20.920 Somebody had seen something in the commons here, hang on, is. 2388 02:08:20.920 --> 02:08:23.720 It Kane b He was friends with the box fast Eddy. 2389 02:08:24.119 --> 02:08:27.119 The one before that. He's somebody's talking about a movie 2390 02:08:27.199 --> 02:08:30.359 that rolls of dan Aykroyd. 2391 02:08:30.640 --> 02:08:32.760 But fast Eddie was the mina somma bitch I've ever 2392 02:08:32.840 --> 02:08:34.439 met in my life. I think Kane's actually telling you 2393 02:08:34.479 --> 02:08:36.399 now an actual story here. He used to work for 2394 02:08:36.479 --> 02:08:39.039 a tourist trap restaurant in the eighties. Oh so, because 2395 02:08:39.119 --> 02:08:40.680 Kane used to live in San Diego in the eighties. 2396 02:08:40.720 --> 02:08:43.720 That's interesting, Kane, so he was friends with Bill, your 2397 02:08:43.880 --> 02:08:46.680 old boss was friends with Bill Metzer. Huh, that's we 2398 02:08:46.720 --> 02:08:48.640 got to talk about that for a fellow. Like I 2399 02:08:48.680 --> 02:08:50.399 would like to hear some more of those tales that's 2400 02:08:50.439 --> 02:08:52.439 gonna be, you know, I'd like just you know that 2401 02:08:52.520 --> 02:08:55.000 whole era. I feel like San Diego is whatever, Los Angeles, 2402 02:08:55.279 --> 02:08:57.840 whatever Cole takesot he was popping off in Los Angeles. 2403 02:08:58.239 --> 02:08:59.960 It sounds like Kane had been seeing some of the 2404 02:09:00.119 --> 02:09:06.000 ship in San Diego at the same time. Am I 2405 02:09:06.079 --> 02:09:06.920 back my back? 2406 02:09:07.600 --> 02:09:09.680 Yeah, you're good, You're good. I was just reading the 2407 02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:10.600 comments over here. 2408 02:09:10.680 --> 02:09:13.520 It looks like I don't know, Oh, go ahead. 2409 02:09:14.279 --> 02:09:16.760 I was just gonna say, look like Headless is in 2410 02:09:16.920 --> 02:09:20.119 the comments. People are on fire tonight. We got all 2411 02:09:20.239 --> 02:09:22.199 kinds of stuff coming through. This is awesome. 2412 02:09:22.920 --> 02:09:24.880 It's good stuff. I appreciate the folks of your webs 2413 02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:27.720 and joined the show and commenting here on the on 2414 02:09:27.880 --> 02:09:30.800 the chat, So where did we leave off? Before I 2415 02:09:30.840 --> 02:09:34.359 went on a cocaine bob excursion, we. 2416 02:09:34.439 --> 02:09:39.319 Were talking about how she basically they kill her. 2417 02:09:42.319 --> 02:09:46.000 No, was that what we were talking about. Yeah, we 2418 02:09:46.319 --> 02:09:48.560 were saying how it was similar. They were bragging about 2419 02:09:48.560 --> 02:09:51.199 these stories, right, But no, they killed the woman on accident. 2420 02:09:51.600 --> 02:09:54.479 And then the next thing we see, right is one 2421 02:09:54.560 --> 02:09:57.359 of the character's sons falling out of a building was 2422 02:09:57.399 --> 02:09:58.159 showing us as dick. 2423 02:10:00.399 --> 02:10:03.119 And you don't realize at first that she's they get you. 2424 02:10:03.520 --> 02:10:07.960 The woman he's with is the one that's the central figure. 2425 02:10:08.119 --> 02:10:08.279 Right. 2426 02:10:10.000 --> 02:10:11.720 That's a good point too. I thought you meant you 2427 02:10:11.760 --> 02:10:13.199 don't realize at first they're going to show you his 2428 02:10:13.239 --> 02:10:14.239 dick because I didn't realize that. 2429 02:10:16.960 --> 02:10:20.079 They show you plenty of of tit action too. 2430 02:10:20.279 --> 02:10:23.800 And but from this, no, I had no idea dan 2431 02:10:23.880 --> 02:10:26.359 Ackroyd bought Mama Cass's house. Get the fuck out of here. 2432 02:10:26.439 --> 02:10:30.680 That's awesome stuff. Come on, because he already he's already 2433 02:10:30.720 --> 02:10:33.520 he's already questionable enough. Starring Opposite Tuesday Well, the nineteen 2434 02:10:33.600 --> 02:10:38.680 ninety five film starring Keanu Reeves and Courtney Love Feeling Minnesota. 2435 02:10:39.920 --> 02:10:42.640 Yeah, and that Dan he has a serious interest like 2436 02:10:42.760 --> 02:10:45.239 in ghosts and UFOs and just the paranormal. 2437 02:10:47.239 --> 02:10:50.239 Well, absolutely, John, and I cover that. You'll you'll enjoy 2438 02:10:50.319 --> 02:10:53.560 this comparison. I cover that in that Dragonet film that he, 2439 02:10:54.119 --> 02:10:56.279 you know, went into some of the Ghostbusters activities. I 2440 02:10:56.359 --> 02:10:59.760 think he has raised a cult. Bookstore was based upon 2441 02:10:59.800 --> 02:11:00.640 the Magic Child. 2442 02:11:01.640 --> 02:11:03.520 I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt it. 2443 02:11:04.399 --> 02:11:08.800 And Mama Cass's House makes sense to me. 2444 02:11:09.600 --> 02:11:11.880 Hey, look, if you start opposite, they will makes sense 2445 02:11:11.960 --> 02:11:12.119 to me. 2446 02:11:12.960 --> 02:11:17.119 That's like Jared leto buy and lookout Mountain Laboratory. Yeah, 2447 02:11:18.439 --> 02:11:20.159 and he's doing some kind of cult. 2448 02:11:20.039 --> 02:11:23.920 Activity that was originally Natalie Woods house. Holy Masicious, that's 2449 02:11:23.960 --> 02:11:24.920 some great stuff. 2450 02:11:24.680 --> 02:11:24.960 You got that. 2451 02:11:25.000 --> 02:11:25.880 I didn't know that either. 2452 02:11:26.880 --> 02:11:27.960 Holy Ship. 2453 02:11:28.199 --> 02:11:32.600 Who is this? It's Masicious. That's not ship, It's totally Masicious. 2454 02:11:34.199 --> 02:11:36.720 She has a lot of good information. I know her. 2455 02:11:37.039 --> 02:11:39.359 She research. 2456 02:11:40.640 --> 02:11:42.600 Thank you man. That's a that's some awesome stuff. 2457 02:11:43.479 --> 02:11:45.880 Yeah, some awesome stuff. 2458 02:11:47.720 --> 02:11:49.399 I don't know. Nicholas Roorck, who's that? 2459 02:11:51.000 --> 02:11:54.920 Oh, the Russian painter, who's that mystical? 2460 02:11:56.600 --> 02:12:01.560 Is he a weirdo child diddler, Cannibal little really just 2461 02:12:02.119 --> 02:12:02.640 just sort. 2462 02:12:02.479 --> 02:12:06.720 Of known as a painter of like mystical and occult subjects. 2463 02:12:06.760 --> 02:12:09.319 Thank you made glad you're listening tonight. 2464 02:12:10.359 --> 02:12:12.760 May I need to get you on my show. What 2465 02:12:13.000 --> 02:12:18.880 the fuck? Geez? People in the comments are going, John, 2466 02:12:19.000 --> 02:12:22.399 you brought the best audience tonight. Holy crap. 2467 02:12:23.079 --> 02:12:23.840 That's not that? 2468 02:12:23.960 --> 02:12:24.520 Is that is that? 2469 02:12:24.680 --> 02:12:25.239 May? May? 2470 02:12:25.520 --> 02:12:27.520 May Zech? Do I know this Maze? Is this one 2471 02:12:27.520 --> 02:12:28.159 of your followers? 2472 02:12:29.199 --> 02:12:32.399 Well, we're just fellow researchers and nice. 2473 02:12:33.359 --> 02:12:35.079 It sounds like I need I need to know this person. 2474 02:12:35.520 --> 02:12:37.640 Yeah, it's both interested in the same kinds of things. 2475 02:12:37.680 --> 02:12:40.319 And I'm so glad I didn't know dan Aykroyd bout 2476 02:12:40.359 --> 02:12:42.279 that fucking house. That's I mean, I don't a lot 2477 02:12:42.319 --> 02:12:43.319 of these details. 2478 02:12:43.640 --> 02:12:46.000 I didn't either. But it's so great that people are 2479 02:12:46.039 --> 02:12:49.000 talking about this stuff because it really is. It's not. 2480 02:12:49.760 --> 02:12:51.960 This aspect of it has not discussed a whole lot, 2481 02:12:51.960 --> 02:12:54.279 I don't think, or maybe it is privately, but I've 2482 02:12:54.359 --> 02:12:56.359 just never been able to engage a whole lot of 2483 02:12:56.439 --> 02:12:58.920 people in the Son of Sam community in this. 2484 02:13:00.000 --> 02:13:01.560 I'm hope to see the interest down. I hope to 2485 02:13:01.560 --> 02:13:02.279 see the interests. 2486 02:13:03.079 --> 02:13:05.840 I'm gonna have to put my email in if you could. 2487 02:13:06.000 --> 02:13:08.720 I email JJ at the end of the show so 2488 02:13:09.239 --> 02:13:11.520 people can reach send me an email reach out and 2489 02:13:11.840 --> 02:13:15.239 I want to get may on my show. Only crack 2490 02:13:15.600 --> 02:13:19.239 throwing out some crazy info like that, I need to 2491 02:13:19.359 --> 02:13:19.800 know more. 2492 02:13:19.960 --> 02:13:22.079 It's a real barn burner here, Julie. It's a real barn. 2493 02:13:21.960 --> 02:13:26.000 Burner burning down the barn. Holy shit. 2494 02:13:27.000 --> 02:13:30.279 So after we see the unsolicited dick pic of one 2495 02:13:30.279 --> 02:13:32.439 of the main characters sons that jumps out of the 2496 02:13:32.840 --> 02:13:35.039 building because he sees the ghost, right, the ghost comes 2497 02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:37.159 on him. What's that about? Why is the ghost aunting 2498 02:13:37.199 --> 02:13:37.720 the man's son. 2499 02:13:39.239 --> 02:13:41.840 Well, he's one of the two sons of Ned, the 2500 02:13:42.199 --> 02:13:46.159 mayor and the the guy that Eve I actually liked 2501 02:13:46.239 --> 02:13:49.319 in nineteen twenty nine or whatever it was. He's one 2502 02:13:49.359 --> 02:13:50.159 of the two sons. 2503 02:13:50.399 --> 02:13:58.159 He's uh, do you take it as being like Ricky right? 2504 02:13:58.439 --> 02:14:00.359 Ned and Ricky right? Because the next thing we see 2505 02:14:00.479 --> 02:14:03.119 is the father chasing after Ricky. He goes to see 2506 02:14:03.119 --> 02:14:05.680 his dad for the funeral of his brother and tells 2507 02:14:05.720 --> 02:14:08.600 his dad, Hey, I would sleeping with that lady too, right, yeah, 2508 02:14:08.760 --> 02:14:10.359 he tells his dad, right, yeah. 2509 02:14:10.840 --> 02:14:12.880 But do you take that kind of freaks out right 2510 02:14:13.439 --> 02:14:17.000 lamb kind of thing, like the firstborn son, like, I'll 2511 02:14:17.039 --> 02:14:19.439 get you and your firstborn son kind of thing. 2512 02:14:19.680 --> 02:14:22.359 That's what I was thinking, kind of right, a little curse. Yeah, well, 2513 02:14:22.439 --> 02:14:23.640 Robert the Dolls curse. 2514 02:14:24.359 --> 02:14:26.960 I'm not sure how they actually were thinking about it 2515 02:14:27.159 --> 02:14:31.760 in in the film and in the book, Alma Till's 2516 02:14:32.760 --> 02:14:36.039 done really specifically that, you know, when we get married, 2517 02:14:36.039 --> 02:14:37.720 I want to go back and get married in the 2518 02:14:37.840 --> 02:14:40.520 town where you grew up, and I want all your 2519 02:14:41.239 --> 02:14:43.479 father and all of his friends and everybody in the 2520 02:14:43.560 --> 02:14:45.399 town to be there, and I want them to see me. 2521 02:14:47.760 --> 02:14:49.800 And then the next phrase she says is the phrase 2522 02:14:49.880 --> 02:14:51.640 she repeats at the end, right, that she's gonna make 2523 02:14:51.680 --> 02:14:53.840 them all kind of like she's gonna make them all pay. 2524 02:14:53.880 --> 02:14:55.600 They're all gonna feel her or something like that. 2525 02:14:55.840 --> 02:14:59.640 That's exactly it. Yeah, it's revenge for what they did 2526 02:14:59.720 --> 02:15:03.960 to her, albeit accidentally. Now it's funny because in the 2527 02:15:04.079 --> 02:15:07.720 movie they really it's sort of inadvertently I think, turns 2528 02:15:07.880 --> 02:15:11.039 the men and the chatter society into the villains because 2529 02:15:11.600 --> 02:15:14.199 they just kill this woman who has no she's just 2530 02:15:14.319 --> 02:15:17.239 a normal human being. 2531 02:15:17.359 --> 02:15:17.520 You know. 2532 02:15:18.479 --> 02:15:21.920 In the book, there's already something wrong with Eva, and 2533 02:15:22.079 --> 02:15:26.560 she already is this sort of inhuman other worldly figures, 2534 02:15:26.640 --> 02:15:30.479 so that they they think that they have killed a 2535 02:15:30.600 --> 02:15:34.640 human woman, but what they have actually done is just anger, 2536 02:15:35.000 --> 02:15:39.960 a an other worldly sort of spirit being that just 2537 02:15:40.079 --> 02:15:42.399 keeps coming back at them over and over at various 2538 02:15:42.439 --> 02:15:45.720 points throughout their history. But she's even at the point 2539 02:15:45.720 --> 02:15:47.680 where they kill her in the novel the first time 2540 02:15:48.000 --> 02:15:52.000 as Eva, she already is not a human. She's something else, 2541 02:15:52.279 --> 02:15:58.800 just occupying a human body, possessed. She's a manitute. She's 2542 02:15:58.840 --> 02:16:03.279 an Indian's you're one of these shape shifting changeling things. 2543 02:16:03.439 --> 02:16:03.960 I knew it. 2544 02:16:04.479 --> 02:16:07.520 Yeah, it becomes people or animals or whatever, but it's 2545 02:16:07.560 --> 02:16:11.319 always in the disguise of a physical creature, but it's not. 2546 02:16:11.520 --> 02:16:14.680 It's not actually a physical person or an animal at all. 2547 02:16:14.960 --> 02:16:20.680 Right, She's like a siren. She's like a yeahs figure, 2548 02:16:20.800 --> 02:16:23.399 yeah yeah, and can lure you in with like her 2549 02:16:23.439 --> 02:16:24.640 good looks and stuff. 2550 02:16:24.800 --> 02:16:26.520 But then she turns right. 2551 02:16:27.640 --> 02:16:31.000 Yeah, but think of it like JJ, like in the Shining, 2552 02:16:31.399 --> 02:16:33.959 you know, when it's like a beautiful woman in the bathtub, 2553 02:16:34.079 --> 02:16:36.040 and then he goes to kiss her and she turns 2554 02:16:36.079 --> 02:16:40.200 into like some weird hag witch thing that's like laughing 2555 02:16:40.280 --> 02:16:43.120 and cackling like that's Eva, Like she's like some kind 2556 02:16:43.120 --> 02:16:44.040 of weird siren. 2557 02:16:44.840 --> 02:16:47.159 Which we see that a lot. Though that same sequence 2558 02:16:47.200 --> 02:16:48.879 you just described from The Shining, we see that same 2559 02:16:48.959 --> 02:16:50.879 sequence play over here in this film as well, with 2560 02:16:51.000 --> 02:16:54.079 this this witchy character, right, this this Eva Alma character. 2561 02:16:54.239 --> 02:16:56.799 But it is it's that's the call of the siren, 2562 02:16:56.959 --> 02:16:58.680 is what she's doing. When I think when she says, 2563 02:16:59.159 --> 02:17:01.079 I will take you place you've never been, I will 2564 02:17:01.120 --> 02:17:03.360 show you things that you've never seen, and I will 2565 02:17:03.360 --> 02:17:05.280 see the life run out of you. She repeats that 2566 02:17:05.440 --> 02:17:06.719 numerous times in the film. 2567 02:17:07.719 --> 02:17:11.159 It's like a chance. It's like the priestess thing, you know, 2568 02:17:11.280 --> 02:17:12.120 it's like a spell. 2569 02:17:12.680 --> 02:17:15.559 Yeah, yeah, but she's learning these men in with especially Ricky. 2570 02:17:15.639 --> 02:17:17.920 She lowers Ricky in with that statement, right, m. 2571 02:17:19.319 --> 02:17:27.200 Yeah, that's right. And the our real life priestess, that 2572 02:17:27.479 --> 02:17:31.440 is the the image she consciously affected. She she was 2573 02:17:31.600 --> 02:17:36.120 like that Sue Conway, right, yeah, that was very much 2574 02:17:36.200 --> 02:17:37.600 her her persona. 2575 02:17:38.319 --> 02:17:40.719 You know, yeah, that's I mean, you bring up some 2576 02:17:40.799 --> 02:17:43.799 good points there. So then we see we see Ricky 2577 02:17:44.520 --> 02:17:47.239 and is it Ricky Senior? Right, he falls off the 2578 02:17:47.280 --> 02:17:51.559 bridge they're chasing Ricky Jr. Right, Well, yeah, but but yeah, yeah, I'm. 2579 02:17:51.399 --> 02:17:55.159 Sorry, falls off the bridge and he sees uh Almah's 2580 02:17:55.280 --> 02:17:57.959 or Eva's figure. They're approaching him just as he's about 2581 02:17:57.959 --> 02:17:58.440 to jump off. 2582 02:17:58.559 --> 02:18:02.000 Yeah. Yeah, And then and then and after that is 2583 02:18:02.040 --> 02:18:04.600 when we start getting into the bending of reality, right, 2584 02:18:04.639 --> 02:18:09.120 because when they go when fred Astaire goes to the house, right, well, 2585 02:18:09.399 --> 02:18:10.760 that's is that the next scene, right, is that the 2586 02:18:10.799 --> 02:18:11.159 next part. 2587 02:18:12.639 --> 02:18:15.719 It's it's somewhere early in there. I forget exactly when 2588 02:18:15.760 --> 02:18:18.920 he goes to it. Uh. Now, incredibly too that that 2589 02:18:19.120 --> 02:18:21.719 whole house is a matte painting. It's not even a 2590 02:18:21.760 --> 02:18:26.559 real hat. That's it's an amazing painting there. But that's uh. 2591 02:18:26.680 --> 02:18:28.120 I wish I could remember the name of the guy 2592 02:18:28.159 --> 02:18:29.440 that did those paintings. 2593 02:18:29.079 --> 02:18:32.440 For the for the Yeah, I'll look that up here 2594 02:18:32.479 --> 02:18:36.040 in a second. So we are just looking at the Oh, 2595 02:18:36.079 --> 02:18:39.760 that's right, So doubting his father committed suicide. Don then 2596 02:18:40.559 --> 02:18:42.959 the remaining three friends and tells them a ghost story, right, 2597 02:18:43.040 --> 02:18:45.600 approaches the remaining three friends. So then that's when the 2598 02:18:45.639 --> 02:18:47.200 son is trying to get into the club, right. 2599 02:18:47.760 --> 02:18:50.399 Right, right, and he uh, they talk to each other 2600 02:18:50.440 --> 02:18:53.719 because he's a horror author, and I think Riky or 2601 02:18:53.760 --> 02:18:56.879 somebody suggests or not it's not Ricky. Maybe it's Sears 2602 02:18:57.159 --> 02:19:01.239 who suggests well edward Son and knows about all this 2603 02:19:01.319 --> 02:19:04.120 weird stuff, so maybe he could tell us something to 2604 02:19:04.200 --> 02:19:06.559 sort of calm us down a little bit and keep 2605 02:19:06.600 --> 02:19:09.559 our imaginations from running away with us. So they asked 2606 02:19:09.600 --> 02:19:12.280 him to come to town, and he uh. He attends 2607 02:19:12.319 --> 02:19:15.559 one of their meetings and yes, Sears is really grouchy 2608 02:19:15.600 --> 02:19:18.799 and offers him a Cuban cigar. But then Don says 2609 02:19:18.840 --> 02:19:21.319 something like, well, let me tell you a story, and 2610 02:19:21.399 --> 02:19:23.879 maybe that'll be the price of my admission into the 2611 02:19:23.959 --> 02:19:27.479 chatter society, which Sears really doesn't like for some reason, 2612 02:19:27.520 --> 02:19:29.879 and he he blows up at him over that comment. 2613 02:19:30.040 --> 02:19:33.200 But Sears is just kind of a cantanker's character like 2614 02:19:33.239 --> 02:19:34.799 that in the book and in film too. 2615 02:19:36.040 --> 02:19:39.079 Now you're that's spot on, that's what. And the next 2616 02:19:39.120 --> 02:19:41.840 thing we see is them and he's recounting this story, right, 2617 02:19:41.879 --> 02:19:43.760 But that's when we meet Alma, right, So that's when 2618 02:19:43.840 --> 02:19:47.440 it started blurring the boring the reality situation, right right. 2619 02:19:48.120 --> 02:19:52.319 Before Alma knew his brother who dies at the beginning 2620 02:19:52.360 --> 02:19:58.040 of the movie, she knew Don and uh, she approaches 2621 02:19:58.120 --> 02:20:01.879 him when he's teaching at some university in Florida somewhere. 2622 02:20:02.680 --> 02:20:05.920 And I may put it in that statement because I 2623 02:20:05.920 --> 02:20:07.840 got an interesting, little weird thing that I saw on 2624 02:20:07.920 --> 02:20:09.399 that whole Florida thing. I'll bring us at the end, 2625 02:20:09.440 --> 02:20:10.239 but please continue. 2626 02:20:10.959 --> 02:20:13.280 Yeah, well he he uh. He falls for her, and 2627 02:20:14.719 --> 02:20:17.360 initially they're planning to get married, but she just gets 2628 02:20:17.479 --> 02:20:19.879 weirder and weirder, and he has more of these strange 2629 02:20:19.920 --> 02:20:24.079 experiences where her he he's it becomes impossible for him 2630 02:20:24.120 --> 02:20:29.200 to ignore that something's wrong with her, and eventually, one 2631 02:20:29.280 --> 02:20:32.000 day he tells her that he's breaking it off, you know, And. 2632 02:20:32.559 --> 02:20:35.680 So she and this is all going on in the past. 2633 02:20:35.760 --> 02:20:38.239 He's now retelling in the present based upon his brother 2634 02:20:38.280 --> 02:20:41.239 already hooking up with this girl. Right, so it kind 2635 02:20:41.280 --> 02:20:43.280 of it's suddenly the whole When I was watching, I 2636 02:20:43.319 --> 02:20:45.200 was like, holy shit, did this stuff this all collapsed 2637 02:20:45.200 --> 02:20:46.760 on me at once? Dude, I didn't see it coming. 2638 02:20:47.079 --> 02:20:49.719 Yeah, And that's one of those things that's very much 2639 02:20:49.840 --> 02:20:53.319 like the book is it's different narratives woven into each other, 2640 02:20:53.520 --> 02:20:56.959 different time periods, and yeah, it starts to get pretty 2641 02:20:56.959 --> 02:20:57.879 complex at that point. 2642 02:20:58.040 --> 02:20:59.680 Come, it comes at you real fast, because then you 2643 02:20:59.719 --> 02:21:01.799 realize the opening sequence when he saw his brother falling 2644 02:21:01.840 --> 02:21:04.479 out the building and the dick pic. The lady that 2645 02:21:04.840 --> 02:21:09.479 he saw was this Alma ghosts. Yeah, I'm sorry's sleeping 2646 02:21:09.520 --> 02:21:12.079 with Alma, but he sees the ghost of Eva in 2647 02:21:12.239 --> 02:21:14.319 her and then falls out the window. And then you 2648 02:21:14.399 --> 02:21:16.200 find out his father is doing the same. And then 2649 02:21:16.360 --> 02:21:18.239 his brother's like, wait a second, I've been banging this 2650 02:21:18.319 --> 02:21:19.280 broad for a while, guys. 2651 02:21:19.360 --> 02:21:22.120 So time he talks to his brother, he's in a 2652 02:21:22.159 --> 02:21:26.239 bar and he says, David, don't don't marry her, something's 2653 02:21:26.280 --> 02:21:28.600 wrong with her, and yeah yeah. 2654 02:21:30.159 --> 02:21:35.040 Thereafter yeah, wild ship man, wild Ship. Yeah, what was 2655 02:21:35.079 --> 02:21:36.120 your taking all that? Julia? 2656 02:21:37.040 --> 02:21:41.000 Well, I just wanted to note two things I thought 2657 02:21:41.079 --> 02:21:44.920 were cool from this part of the movie. The fact 2658 02:21:44.959 --> 02:21:50.200 that he knows Don knows that he has to quote 2659 02:21:50.280 --> 02:21:54.680 unquote like blood his way into the cult. Right, He's 2660 02:21:54.760 --> 02:21:59.040 gotta pay his dues. He's gotta tell this story to 2661 02:21:59.159 --> 02:22:01.000 get into the Sea Great Society. 2662 02:22:01.120 --> 02:22:04.840 Right when he says the series, he's like John House, 2663 02:22:04.920 --> 02:22:06.239 He's like, hey, I want to get in, and there's 2664 02:22:06.559 --> 02:22:08.520 John Sten is kind offended, and then he offers up 2665 02:22:08.520 --> 02:22:10.600 his blood sacrifice. 2666 02:22:10.200 --> 02:22:13.280 Right right, Yeah, so I felt like that was symbolic. 2667 02:22:13.479 --> 02:22:17.959 And then when it shows him at the university talking 2668 02:22:18.079 --> 02:22:22.280 to his class full of students, the only thing he's 2669 02:22:22.360 --> 02:22:27.360 really talking about is is being seduced and someone seducing 2670 02:22:28.200 --> 02:22:30.920 or him seducing someone else, or he's talking about like 2671 02:22:30.959 --> 02:22:33.959 a short story, but it's all about seduction, and like 2672 02:22:34.159 --> 02:22:41.040 the weird siren thing, you know, So it's it's weird weird. 2673 02:22:40.879 --> 02:22:42.879 Tiren things are I'm spinning because I was You're making 2674 02:22:42.959 --> 02:22:44.280 a great point, I want to comment, and I was 2675 02:22:44.319 --> 02:22:47.040 also trying to actually it thumbs up and talk at 2676 02:22:47.040 --> 02:22:48.600 the same time. Apparently I can't do all at once 2677 02:22:48.639 --> 02:22:51.120 without spinning on myself. So that's a great point you. 2678 02:22:52.639 --> 02:22:54.840 But yeah, no, those were two things that I took 2679 02:22:54.920 --> 02:22:57.239 out of it. Also just a funny part from the 2680 02:22:57.360 --> 02:23:00.719 beginning of the movie when the dad goes to pick 2681 02:23:00.840 --> 02:23:04.319 up the sun from the train station. He's like, look 2682 02:23:04.399 --> 02:23:07.959 at you. You look horrible, and he's wearing like a 2683 02:23:08.159 --> 02:23:12.000 sweater vest in like a button Like if you saw 2684 02:23:12.159 --> 02:23:14.959 somebody wearing that outfit, you'd be like, oh, he looks nice, 2685 02:23:15.000 --> 02:23:18.399 where's he going? And the Dad's like, you look like shit, he. 2686 02:23:18.479 --> 02:23:22.520 Wasn't dressed right. He was dressing you know, really you know, 2687 02:23:22.600 --> 02:23:24.760 put together as far as style and whatnot goes. You 2688 02:23:24.920 --> 02:23:27.200 wasn't doing flannel and headbands what I'm saying, you know. 2689 02:23:27.360 --> 02:23:30.559 And again it kind of that was an interesting scene 2690 02:23:30.600 --> 02:23:32.799 to me because it's like he didn't want to the 2691 02:23:32.879 --> 02:23:34.719 son didn't want to go back there. He already knew that, 2692 02:23:35.000 --> 02:23:36.760 he already knew the dynamic that they didn't know that 2693 02:23:36.840 --> 02:23:38.520 he was banging his lady already. He didn't want to 2694 02:23:38.680 --> 02:23:41.280 do that. His brother dies, there was a lot going 2695 02:23:41.319 --> 02:23:43.319 on there, and then he gets there, his father's giving 2696 02:23:43.399 --> 02:23:44.280 him heat, you know what I mean. 2697 02:23:44.479 --> 02:23:48.680 So well I did that. It was another testament as 2698 02:23:48.799 --> 02:23:52.000 to the elitism of the family, because. 2699 02:23:51.760 --> 02:23:53.520 That's what I'm saying, Like he's getting heat from his 2700 02:23:53.639 --> 02:23:54.559 dad no matter what he does. 2701 02:23:55.639 --> 02:23:59.719 Sweater vest looks like ship to the dad, Like what's 2702 02:23:59.799 --> 02:24:00.520 the dad on? 2703 02:24:01.040 --> 02:24:01.239 You know. 2704 02:24:01.760 --> 02:24:05.159 Yeah, So it's like another testament as to these high 2705 02:24:05.399 --> 02:24:12.120 elite Secret Society members and their kids, right dying mysteriously 2706 02:24:12.639 --> 02:24:15.559 accidentally killing people in their past. 2707 02:24:15.360 --> 02:24:21.440 And covering it up like total accident. Yeah, while we're 2708 02:24:21.440 --> 02:24:22.799 on the topic, and you bring us some great points. 2709 02:24:22.799 --> 02:24:24.719 While we're on the topic, was there anything important about 2710 02:24:24.760 --> 02:24:26.840 the scenes that we see that are the actual scenes, right? 2711 02:24:26.920 --> 02:24:29.559 And like not the obviously you've made all those correlations 2712 02:24:29.600 --> 02:24:31.840 between Yonkers and the fictional town of Melbourne with the 2713 02:24:31.959 --> 02:24:35.120 namesakes of roads and whatnot and people's But we see 2714 02:24:35.200 --> 02:24:38.000 a couple interesting places like Saratoga Springs is one of 2715 02:24:38.040 --> 02:24:42.079 the filming locations, right, What's Doctor Mont's another one. I 2716 02:24:42.120 --> 02:24:43.879 believe this was the down I believe this is the 2717 02:24:44.040 --> 02:24:44.920 downtown setting. 2718 02:24:46.079 --> 02:24:50.079 Yeah, I believe that's right. Yeah, I'm not sure if 2719 02:24:50.079 --> 02:24:53.040 there was any particular reason that they chose those locations, 2720 02:24:53.159 --> 02:24:57.639 but for the town square, it it looks and sounds 2721 02:24:57.680 --> 02:24:59.760 a lot like the wheat Row of the book, the 2722 02:25:00.040 --> 02:25:03.040 on Square of Melbourne in the novel. So that's uh, 2723 02:25:03.319 --> 02:25:06.959 that's it's very close and tone to what what Straw 2724 02:25:07.040 --> 02:25:08.000 described in the novel. 2725 02:25:08.680 --> 02:25:10.399 How about during the Son of sam Era, was there 2726 02:25:10.440 --> 02:25:14.879 any connections to the Kipps Bay area of Manhattan, Not 2727 02:25:15.079 --> 02:25:16.319 to my knowledge. 2728 02:25:17.200 --> 02:25:20.040 Although a lot of those members did sometimes go to 2729 02:25:20.120 --> 02:25:23.719 hang out in the city, so it's possible that that 2730 02:25:23.879 --> 02:25:27.280 there's some that one of them had a connection to 2731 02:25:27.479 --> 02:25:28.200 to Kipps Bay. 2732 02:25:30.639 --> 02:25:33.600 Yeah, I don't as much I know about New York 2733 02:25:33.639 --> 02:25:35.319 City when I used to hang out there all the time. 2734 02:25:35.399 --> 02:25:37.719 I never I don't know anything about that region of Manhattan. 2735 02:25:37.799 --> 02:25:40.600 I was, you know, I was normally found in mcsorley's, 2736 02:25:40.600 --> 02:25:43.360 the oldest bar in Manhattan, with Sorley's Old Ale House, 2737 02:25:44.079 --> 02:25:46.000 a bunch of old surly Irish dudentes. I highly recommend 2738 02:25:46.040 --> 02:25:49.399 the place, great spot, but I don't know much about 2739 02:25:49.399 --> 02:25:52.399 that region. However, mcsorley's is down there in that kind 2740 02:25:52.399 --> 02:25:54.319 of Sun of Sam East Village, not far from some 2741 02:25:54.399 --> 02:25:55.719 of that East Village stuff, you know what I mean. 2742 02:25:55.719 --> 02:25:57.040 And that was on the Sun of Sam that. 2743 02:25:57.159 --> 02:26:02.319 That definitely was was an area that I think everybody 2744 02:26:02.639 --> 02:26:04.520 when you go there you have at least one sort 2745 02:26:04.520 --> 02:26:07.719 of strange experience. You walk past some place and you 2746 02:26:07.879 --> 02:26:10.360 realize that it's a place that you've read about. You 2747 02:26:10.440 --> 02:26:13.680 weren't consciously seeking it out, but there it is, and 2748 02:26:13.719 --> 02:26:15.959 you realize you're standing next to it, and it just 2749 02:26:16.399 --> 02:26:18.719 you know, because there's so many places like that in 2750 02:26:18.799 --> 02:26:22.360 New York. But mine was the place where William Burrows 2751 02:26:22.559 --> 02:26:25.360 used to live. I knew it was down there. That 2752 02:26:25.440 --> 02:26:28.079 wasn't really what I was going to see, but all 2753 02:26:28.120 --> 02:26:30.120 of a sudden, it's just right there, and you recognize 2754 02:26:30.200 --> 02:26:33.000 the gate and the number over the door and everything, 2755 02:26:33.079 --> 02:26:37.360 and of course Burrows that's a whole other connection to 2756 02:26:37.440 --> 02:26:41.079 this stuff, you know, into the Magical Child and all 2757 02:26:41.159 --> 02:26:41.760 of that scene. 2758 02:26:41.879 --> 02:26:43.799 Well, well, John Sara, you just signed yourself up for 2759 02:26:43.799 --> 02:26:46.239 another show here in Operation GCD, because it is William 2760 02:26:46.280 --> 02:26:48.799 Burrows who institutes the smiley face as a chaos symbol 2761 02:26:48.840 --> 02:26:50.200 into the Neo process movement. 2762 02:26:50.399 --> 02:26:54.920 Yeah, yeah, Burrows was, he was, he was something else. 2763 02:26:55.399 --> 02:26:57.559 I as always absolute your refforts and all these things. 2764 02:26:57.559 --> 02:27:00.559 I learned something new. I I did not know these 2765 02:27:00.639 --> 02:27:03.079 these Boroughs connections. I do need to learn more Burroughs stuff. 2766 02:27:03.120 --> 02:27:07.120 Clearly, it's spooky. He was involved in some and he admitted, 2767 02:27:07.159 --> 02:27:11.799 you know, he said I had CIA acquaintances, which I 2768 02:27:11.840 --> 02:27:14.079 think you're underplaying it a little bit. But at the 2769 02:27:14.200 --> 02:27:15.840 very least, yeah, he heed. 2770 02:27:15.719 --> 02:27:18.479 And a scientologist, John, and a scientologists that's. 2771 02:27:18.399 --> 02:27:21.440 Right, that's right, very dedicated scientologist. And one we sure, 2772 02:27:22.319 --> 02:27:24.719 and that's right DeLand, Florida. And you know, May another 2773 02:27:24.799 --> 02:27:28.559 thing about DeLand is I believe that's where Burrow's son 2774 02:27:29.159 --> 02:27:33.440 of Billy Jr. He died in DeLand, or somewhere just 2775 02:27:33.559 --> 02:27:37.200 outside of the land. Strangely enough, just as we're we're 2776 02:27:37.239 --> 02:27:38.159 talking about Burrows. 2777 02:27:38.600 --> 02:27:40.280 Yeah, that's. 2778 02:27:42.680 --> 02:27:45.559 Yeah. But Billy or Willie Junior, Yeah, guy. 2779 02:27:45.879 --> 02:27:48.559 Die his number three, William number three dies March third, 2780 02:27:48.680 --> 02:27:55.319 nineteen eighty one, survey says DeLand, Florida. Yeah. 2781 02:27:55.639 --> 02:27:57.479 He was a very good writer in his own right, 2782 02:27:57.559 --> 02:28:01.479 and I to his credit, ultimately, I believe although it 2783 02:28:01.559 --> 02:28:03.520 caused him a lot of pain in his life. He 2784 02:28:03.799 --> 02:28:06.479 was not a part of his father's circle. He was 2785 02:28:06.680 --> 02:28:09.840 very much outside that and was was frustrated and didn't 2786 02:28:09.959 --> 02:28:13.840 understand all the the weird you know that that weird 2787 02:28:15.760 --> 02:28:19.079 group of friends, and you know that his father had 2788 02:28:19.159 --> 02:28:21.639 all the strange stuff that he was involved with. He 2789 02:28:22.360 --> 02:28:24.399 I think a lot of that was was a mystery 2790 02:28:24.520 --> 02:28:27.680 to Billy. He's one of the fuorite riders. I have 2791 02:28:27.760 --> 02:28:29.719 a real soft spot for Billy because he had a 2792 02:28:29.799 --> 02:28:30.239 rough life. 2793 02:28:30.840 --> 02:28:32.520 He did die at thirty three. 2794 02:28:32.680 --> 02:28:36.879 Though I'm not gonna, y'all rather blow my brain all here, 2795 02:28:37.079 --> 02:28:38.959 and I don't want to. I don't want to. You're 2796 02:28:39.000 --> 02:28:40.639 you know, make some great points and I don't want 2797 02:28:40.639 --> 02:28:43.559 to direct you from them. But yeah, I do have 2798 02:28:43.680 --> 02:28:45.719 to get us back on track here with the chapter society. 2799 02:28:45.799 --> 02:28:48.200 Yeah, well we'll yeah, well, we'll go ahead and sun 2800 02:28:48.239 --> 02:28:49.079 ups as the rest of. 2801 02:28:49.079 --> 02:28:50.879 The Oh, I assure you you have both of you 2802 02:28:50.959 --> 02:28:53.360 receiving emails from me tonight with these various notes of 2803 02:28:53.440 --> 02:28:55.040 things that come back in the future of an invite. 2804 02:28:55.079 --> 02:28:57.840 So I do appreciate your time and for blowing my brain. 2805 02:28:57.879 --> 02:28:59.959 Though I just like to try to keep this their 2806 02:29:00.079 --> 02:29:02.280 have gone because I you all just made so many 2807 02:29:02.319 --> 02:29:04.920 comments that I've been my tongue on. We'll just we'll 2808 02:29:04.959 --> 02:29:06.959 stay we'll stay the path here. We'll definitely be doing 2809 02:29:07.040 --> 02:29:08.520 these in the future though, these other things. 2810 02:29:08.959 --> 02:29:10.159 Yeah. Absolutely. 2811 02:29:12.280 --> 02:29:14.559 So the next thing we see is Don there getting 2812 02:29:14.920 --> 02:29:15.760 engaged to Alma. 2813 02:29:15.879 --> 02:29:23.000 Huh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, That's probably my favorite part 2814 02:29:23.040 --> 02:29:24.959 of the movie is when he starts to realize that 2815 02:29:25.120 --> 02:29:28.120 something's wrong with her. It's it's really creepy. You know, 2816 02:29:28.440 --> 02:29:31.639 there's very little dialogue, but she's acting so weird, and 2817 02:29:31.719 --> 02:29:33.879 they keep flashing back to the looks on his face 2818 02:29:33.959 --> 02:29:35.319 and he's just it's that. 2819 02:29:35.639 --> 02:29:39.319 I really like that part, said Don. I meant David, 2820 02:29:39.440 --> 02:29:42.600 so Don to learn that he was horrid to become 2821 02:29:42.639 --> 02:29:49.879 engaged at Alma. So Don then shows the three elders, right, yeah, he. 2822 02:29:50.520 --> 02:29:53.120 He shows them a photo and they say, oh my god, 2823 02:29:53.280 --> 02:29:55.639 that's that's Eva. We remember Eva. 2824 02:29:56.000 --> 02:29:58.840 So yeah, so we have three we have three old 2825 02:29:58.920 --> 02:30:01.680 muppets at this point, right, because Don's dad's dead. 2826 02:30:01.840 --> 02:30:03.799 That's right, that's right. He's the one that jumped off 2827 02:30:03.840 --> 02:30:04.239 the bridge. 2828 02:30:04.760 --> 02:30:08.159 Yep, Don's brother's dead because he was banging Alma. Right, 2829 02:30:08.680 --> 02:30:11.840 we saw his dick at the beginning of the film, right, stay. Unfortunately, 2830 02:30:12.920 --> 02:30:15.040 good point. I'm just reiterating. That's so, folks, you go 2831 02:30:15.079 --> 02:30:18.600 watch this film. Can expect the they want to watch it, 2832 02:30:18.639 --> 02:30:19.719 that's up to them. At least. 2833 02:30:21.079 --> 02:30:23.840 Scary part of the movie. 2834 02:30:24.319 --> 02:30:26.200 Dude, I only jumped at one part and that was 2835 02:30:26.239 --> 02:30:27.680 that part. Like there was another jump scar. 2836 02:30:31.479 --> 02:30:34.280 It's an unflattering shot for any actor. I think. 2837 02:30:39.399 --> 02:30:40.000 Inappropriate. 2838 02:30:40.799 --> 02:30:43.200 They didn't even like slap it around and get it 2839 02:30:43.399 --> 02:30:46.639 kind of half chubb or something like. No, it was 2840 02:30:46.920 --> 02:30:48.239 full on baby dick. 2841 02:30:48.680 --> 02:30:51.559 It looks very awkward. Yeah, it must have been an 2842 02:30:51.559 --> 02:30:52.520 awkward day on set. 2843 02:30:54.600 --> 02:30:57.159 Well, I mean, you know when there's a lot of 2844 02:30:57.280 --> 02:30:58.760 awkward days and a lot of sets, you know what 2845 02:30:58.760 --> 02:30:59.000 I mean. 2846 02:31:00.239 --> 02:31:02.559 And his bush on the first. 2847 02:31:05.479 --> 02:31:07.920 The so the next day we lose the second and 2848 02:31:08.040 --> 02:31:09.040 we lose our next muppet. 2849 02:31:10.399 --> 02:31:12.079 Yes, yes, that's doctor Jeffery. 2850 02:31:12.159 --> 02:31:20.520 Yeah yeah, huh yeah yeah. So then and then after that, 2851 02:31:20.719 --> 02:31:23.600 then the other the two remaining muppets, fred Astaire and 2852 02:31:23.680 --> 02:31:27.319 the other guy the Ricky and Sears right houseman and 2853 02:31:27.399 --> 02:31:31.360 Freda's Staire, right yeah, yeah. They tell they kind of 2854 02:31:31.399 --> 02:31:32.920 bring Ricky in on the scene or I'm sorry, don 2855 02:31:33.079 --> 02:31:34.920 in on the scene at that point, right. Yeah. 2856 02:31:35.000 --> 02:31:36.799 They explained to him, just just like in the book, 2857 02:31:36.879 --> 02:31:39.760 to everything that happened. They in the book, when it's 2858 02:31:39.879 --> 02:31:44.079 just the two of them left, they're sitting in Edward's house, uh, 2859 02:31:45.159 --> 02:31:49.040 and they're they're saying, you know, we're we're gonna explain 2860 02:31:49.120 --> 02:31:51.479 to you what happened and what the history of this is, 2861 02:31:51.559 --> 02:31:54.399 and we're not proud of it, but we killed this 2862 02:31:54.520 --> 02:31:55.520 woman and we didn't mean to. 2863 02:31:56.159 --> 02:32:00.799 Yep. Uh so yeah, and that's when we see the 2864 02:32:00.879 --> 02:32:03.760 scene and that they flashes back to when they were dancing. Right, 2865 02:32:04.680 --> 02:32:07.719 that's right, that's right. It says after the four were 2866 02:32:07.879 --> 02:32:10.440 uh oh, that's not it. After the four win Hammond 2867 02:32:10.479 --> 02:32:13.680 became drunk. They returned to the houses of the dilapidated 2868 02:32:13.760 --> 02:32:16.319 house that we see in the future. Actually we skipped 2869 02:32:16.360 --> 02:32:20.159 over that part, and I apologize. So, yeah, it's town 2870 02:32:20.239 --> 02:32:23.040 fred Astaire, mister Ricky there, right, he goes over to 2871 02:32:23.079 --> 02:32:24.959 that old mercy and right what happens there in the 2872 02:32:25.040 --> 02:32:27.440 old scene. So I think that's a very interesting dynamic 2873 02:32:27.559 --> 02:32:30.120 that obviously plays a very important role later in the film, 2874 02:32:30.159 --> 02:32:32.920 but is interesting in this kind of esoteric understanding as well. 2875 02:32:33.280 --> 02:32:39.200 Yeah, well, he sees Gregory and Finny. Their roles in 2876 02:32:39.280 --> 02:32:42.399 the film were a little murky. There's not any real 2877 02:32:42.520 --> 02:32:44.360 reason for them to be in the film other than 2878 02:32:44.399 --> 02:32:48.879 to just add another horrific layer to the story. But 2879 02:32:48.959 --> 02:32:54.600 they're major characters via flashback in the novel. But yeah, 2880 02:32:54.680 --> 02:32:58.319 Gregory Bait whose character name is is from Gregory Bates 2881 02:32:58.399 --> 02:33:04.239 and the Influenced are d laying, Yeah ye, and Finny 2882 02:33:04.479 --> 02:33:10.760 is his, uh, developmentally disabled brother of the little boy, 2883 02:33:11.479 --> 02:33:14.719 and you see them here and there throughout the film 2884 02:33:14.760 --> 02:33:16.200 whenever something had happens. 2885 02:33:17.200 --> 02:33:17.319 Uh. 2886 02:33:17.680 --> 02:33:20.920 But their roles in the film are are much diminished 2887 02:33:21.040 --> 02:33:22.440 compared to what they do in the book. 2888 02:33:22.600 --> 02:33:25.319 But oh yeah, yeah, Well, the one thing I did 2889 02:33:25.440 --> 02:33:27.719 pick up on there was, especially after fredis Stare gets 2890 02:33:27.799 --> 02:33:30.959 chased out of there by them, you hear Alma's voice 2891 02:33:31.000 --> 02:33:32.639 and them going to room like she's got some sort 2892 02:33:32.639 --> 02:33:33.920 of mind control spell on them. 2893 02:33:33.959 --> 02:33:35.920 That's right, She lasts, and she says, I've got something 2894 02:33:36.000 --> 02:33:38.280 for you to do or something of that effect. Yeah, 2895 02:33:38.840 --> 02:33:41.879 and the the the police dispatch. The guy on the 2896 02:33:41.959 --> 02:33:45.520 dispatch phone says, tells the sheriff, well, we've got this 2897 02:33:45.680 --> 02:33:48.440 weird guy in town, Gregory Bate. He was involved in 2898 02:33:48.520 --> 02:33:50.600 some cult or something back on the West coast and 2899 02:33:51.680 --> 02:33:55.079 he's he left, he got out of an asylum or something, 2900 02:33:55.120 --> 02:33:58.600 and he's, uh, he's here in Milbourne now, and uh, 2901 02:33:59.760 --> 02:34:02.959 they're there is that verbal tie to all the cult 2902 02:34:03.000 --> 02:34:04.079 stuff in the movie. 2903 02:34:04.920 --> 02:34:07.360 So two questions. One I just forgot while I was 2904 02:34:07.399 --> 02:34:10.680 asking you that, and uh, secondly I forgot the second one. 2905 02:34:10.799 --> 02:34:13.479 So I will get back to you points about bateson 2906 02:34:13.879 --> 02:34:15.760 and there were both relative debates and whatever it was. 2907 02:34:15.840 --> 02:34:18.879 It'll circle back here in a second. Sure, Yeah, Now, 2908 02:34:18.920 --> 02:34:21.280 because Bates is an interesting character right within within this 2909 02:34:21.479 --> 02:34:24.360 kind of he didn't mean he's not he didn't work 2910 02:34:24.360 --> 02:34:27.200 for the Tabstad, but within this kind of mind controlled Tavistock, 2911 02:34:27.360 --> 02:34:30.680 and you know, he was very going to do this 2912 02:34:30.799 --> 02:34:33.079 to society, right like he's entered on that process. 2913 02:34:33.319 --> 02:34:36.520 He had some odd concepts and he was a huge 2914 02:34:36.559 --> 02:34:37.799 influence on already Lane. 2915 02:34:38.000 --> 02:34:48.680 Yeah. Yeah, not the comedian, No, the Oh so did 2916 02:34:48.719 --> 02:34:52.239 the mill Milburne? Was that any not to mil Grum. 2917 02:34:54.079 --> 02:34:55.600 You know, I'm not sure. That's a good question. 2918 02:34:55.760 --> 02:34:59.040 It may have been, you know, the milgrim experiment. 2919 02:34:59.719 --> 02:35:02.559 Yeah, yeah, and that's that's a good point. It may 2920 02:35:02.600 --> 02:35:02.959 have been that. 2921 02:35:03.680 --> 02:35:03.799 Uh. 2922 02:35:05.319 --> 02:35:06.959 I would have asked Peter Strout if I could have 2923 02:35:07.000 --> 02:35:08.760 asked him, you know, and sat down with him and 2924 02:35:08.760 --> 02:35:12.319 said like, sure, wow, man, you really packed the references 2925 02:35:12.360 --> 02:35:15.760 into this one book. It's just it's incredible hardcore. 2926 02:35:16.360 --> 02:35:20.360 Yeah, this may have been his opus. I don't know 2927 02:35:20.719 --> 02:35:23.000 about I'm not a hundred on that JJ. 2928 02:35:23.600 --> 02:35:26.000 When they were convincing folks to shock, they thought they 2929 02:35:26.040 --> 02:35:29.280 were getting you know, deadly levels of shock therapy, but 2930 02:35:29.440 --> 02:35:31.399 really they were just an actor holding the things like 2931 02:35:31.440 --> 02:35:33.840 they were getting shocked and the person didn't know the 2932 02:35:33.920 --> 02:35:36.399 whole thing was an experiment. But they realized that they 2933 02:35:36.399 --> 02:35:38.879 could get other people to kill people because they were 2934 02:35:38.920 --> 02:35:45.280 being told to do so. Oh shit grant on paper. 2935 02:35:45.280 --> 02:35:47.600 At least allegedly, they weren't really killing folks. There was 2936 02:35:47.639 --> 02:35:50.920 no actual electric shock being applied. The person who was 2937 02:35:50.959 --> 02:35:53.399 applying electric shock was the subject of the test to 2938 02:35:53.399 --> 02:35:54.879 see how much they could get them to do by 2939 02:35:55.000 --> 02:35:57.680 just telling them to do more, you know everything, even 2940 02:35:57.719 --> 02:36:00.079 though everything said that person was going to die, and 2941 02:36:00.120 --> 02:36:01.760 they would remind the person's gonna die there, you know, 2942 02:36:01.760 --> 02:36:03.200 I'm just gonna do it anyway, because there was a 2943 02:36:03.440 --> 02:36:06.079 bifurcation of liability, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, it's 2944 02:36:06.079 --> 02:36:07.559 really easy to get people to tell people to die 2945 02:36:07.680 --> 02:36:08.719 and kill people apparently. 2946 02:36:09.159 --> 02:36:12.120 Well, I mean this is a psychological operation. 2947 02:36:11.959 --> 02:36:13.719 That's what I mean. So this guy, That's what I'm saying. 2948 02:36:13.799 --> 02:36:16.239 So if we're doing baits and stuff, right, why would 2949 02:36:16.360 --> 02:36:18.200 Milburn not be a nod to mil Groom? 2950 02:36:18.360 --> 02:36:18.479 Right? 2951 02:36:19.000 --> 02:36:20.319 Ah, for sure? 2952 02:36:21.440 --> 02:36:26.280 Yeah, yeah, those were the thoughts of the circle back 2953 02:36:26.280 --> 02:36:27.040 of my brain hole there. 2954 02:36:27.079 --> 02:36:27.319 That was. 2955 02:36:27.399 --> 02:36:29.879 I appreciate you all stand by for that one. But yeah, 2956 02:36:31.360 --> 02:36:34.440 So the next thing we see, after we see the four, 2957 02:36:34.559 --> 02:36:36.959 the three out of the four dance with the Eva. 2958 02:36:37.479 --> 02:36:39.040 She hits her head. They put her in the car, 2959 02:36:39.120 --> 02:36:40.879 they sent her in the pond, but she's alive when 2960 02:36:40.879 --> 02:36:42.680 she goes in that pond. So that's a very to me, 2961 02:36:42.760 --> 02:36:45.280 that's very indicative a ritual human sacrifice. 2962 02:36:44.799 --> 02:36:49.159 And water same and the fact that she's a siren. 2963 02:36:50.479 --> 02:36:53.680 There you go again with the sirens. I wasn't even 2964 02:36:53.719 --> 02:36:55.200 considering that the first time I saw it. With the 2965 02:36:55.239 --> 02:36:58.159 siren stuff, that's even Yeah, brings it all right into 2966 02:36:58.440 --> 02:37:00.479 the same same conversation. 2967 02:37:00.520 --> 02:37:03.040 And it's like she draws her power from the water 2968 02:37:03.239 --> 02:37:06.719 because water is a conduit for Yeah. 2969 02:37:07.799 --> 02:37:10.719 Yeah, that's right. So they call him Gregory Bait, which yeah, 2970 02:37:10.760 --> 02:37:12.120 I was like, wait a second, that's a little too 2971 02:37:12.159 --> 02:37:16.319 on the nose, Gregory Bates and yeah, yeah. So then 2972 02:37:16.360 --> 02:37:18.639 we go back to present day, right, and then that's 2973 02:37:18.639 --> 02:37:21.799 when these fellows start, you know, after they flashed back 2974 02:37:21.840 --> 02:37:24.479 to yesterdayear remember the time they killed that lady and 2975 02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:26.120 they're like, wait a second, and that lady is the 2976 02:37:26.159 --> 02:37:27.399 new lady? What's going on here? 2977 02:37:27.920 --> 02:37:32.719 Right? Right? And then you have a long flashback scene 2978 02:37:32.799 --> 02:37:35.799 with the with the young versions of all the members 2979 02:37:35.840 --> 02:37:37.959 of the Chatter Society, and we see how they meet 2980 02:37:38.920 --> 02:37:42.879 Eva like a summertime, some sort of social gathering, and 2981 02:37:43.360 --> 02:37:46.239 then they she's had a tea or a dance or something, 2982 02:37:47.159 --> 02:37:50.399 and they all become fascinated with her. But it's it's 2983 02:37:50.520 --> 02:37:53.239 ned who's the best looking of the bunch, and it's 2984 02:37:53.319 --> 02:37:59.799 ned that he and Eva are attracted each other. And 2985 02:38:00.159 --> 02:38:03.559 so they're all out doing this almost kind of like surreal, 2986 02:38:03.719 --> 02:38:05.600 like they're running through an orchard and then they're on 2987 02:38:05.719 --> 02:38:11.120 a canoe and yeah, you know, nineteen twenties escape, Like right, 2988 02:38:11.520 --> 02:38:15.680 everybody's wearing those boater hats and but yeah, that's an 2989 02:38:15.719 --> 02:38:19.520 interesting series of scenes too. But yeah, they they wind 2990 02:38:19.639 --> 02:38:23.440 up killing Eva accidentally, or they think they've killed her, 2991 02:38:23.479 --> 02:38:27.959 as we described, but then they see as they're pushing 2992 02:38:28.040 --> 02:38:32.680 the car into the pond that that she's still lots 2993 02:38:32.719 --> 02:38:36.959 of the back window and is banging on the window 2994 02:38:37.040 --> 02:38:37.879 and screen. 2995 02:38:38.000 --> 02:38:42.040 They put in zero efforts and watching. 2996 02:38:43.399 --> 02:38:47.760 Like oh wait, she's alive, you know, drooling and punching, 2997 02:38:48.559 --> 02:38:51.600 and looked at each other and they were like, wow, fuck, 2998 02:38:52.920 --> 02:38:54.639 I guess she's dead, right, And. 2999 02:38:54.719 --> 02:38:58.239 That's that's that's supposed to be, Like, look at these horrible, 3000 02:38:58.319 --> 02:39:01.040 spoiled rich kids. Look at what they did, had a 3001 02:39:01.159 --> 02:39:06.040 chance to save somebody's life, and they, which is in 3002 02:39:06.120 --> 02:39:08.360 the book is is the way they think of themselves 3003 02:39:08.399 --> 02:39:11.159 all throughout their lives. They think, God, we just killed somebody. 3004 02:39:11.200 --> 02:39:15.120 We murdered a woman, and then Don tells Sears and 3005 02:39:15.200 --> 02:39:17.959 Ricky in the book, you know, she never was a woman. 3006 02:39:18.079 --> 02:39:20.879 There was always something wrong with her. What you did 3007 02:39:21.079 --> 02:39:25.360 was you just inadvertently caught her off guard. She was 3008 02:39:25.399 --> 02:39:27.520 already going to kill you, but you just made her 3009 02:39:27.559 --> 02:39:30.440 angrier than ever. And that's why she's been coming back 3010 02:39:30.920 --> 02:39:32.639 over and over throughout your lives and. 3011 02:39:35.520 --> 02:39:38.360 Families and killing their sons. 3012 02:39:38.040 --> 02:39:41.159 And the audience to see their sons dick because they're 3013 02:39:41.159 --> 02:39:47.639 falling out of building. Yeah, so that I'm obviously upset 3014 02:39:47.680 --> 02:39:48.319 about that or anything. 3015 02:39:49.159 --> 02:39:51.680 We flashed back to present time. 3016 02:39:55.319 --> 02:39:58.520 He flapped He what I said? That guy flashed something 3017 02:39:58.559 --> 02:40:00.399 all right in that in that scene falling out the building. 3018 02:40:01.360 --> 02:40:03.600 Yeah, his baby asparagus. 3019 02:40:04.719 --> 02:40:06.600 What were you saying? The flashback to the present when 3020 02:40:06.639 --> 02:40:09.159 we see them concluding that Eva and Alma are the 3021 02:40:09.200 --> 02:40:10.040 same person, right. 3022 02:40:10.719 --> 02:40:12.719 Yeah, and then they're like, all right, what are we 3023 02:40:12.840 --> 02:40:16.639 gonna do? And they decide to drive back to Eva's 3024 02:40:16.680 --> 02:40:19.120 old boarded up, old scary house. 3025 02:40:19.559 --> 02:40:22.079 Yeah, where fred Astaire got Ricky got chased out by 3026 02:40:22.159 --> 02:40:24.600 the goons, the goons squad, yep. 3027 02:40:24.760 --> 02:40:29.120 Yeah. And in the meantime, here Sears he has left 3028 02:40:30.280 --> 02:40:33.680 Ricky's house alone to sort of divert attention because he 3029 02:40:33.719 --> 02:40:36.159 thinks if he can draw the bad guys away from 3030 02:40:36.920 --> 02:40:40.440 Ricky and Don, that he'll sacrifice himself to do this. 3031 02:40:40.520 --> 02:40:44.440 So he does. Sears dies when Gregory and Finny magically 3032 02:40:44.479 --> 02:40:47.319 appear in his car. So they kill Sears in his 3033 02:40:47.479 --> 02:40:50.520 car out in the snow, and then there's just Ricky 3034 02:40:50.600 --> 02:40:54.040 and Don left and they go to Eva's house and yeah, 3035 02:40:54.120 --> 02:40:55.879 Don hurts his leg and. 3036 02:40:56.120 --> 02:40:59.799 Uh stairs in the old lap and instructure. Huh right right, 3037 02:41:02.520 --> 02:41:05.280 and then we see them going uh and he suddainly 3038 02:41:05.360 --> 02:41:06.399 has a go ahead. 3039 02:41:07.079 --> 02:41:08.840 Oh yeah, I was just yeah, the interior that is 3040 02:41:08.959 --> 02:41:13.040 really nice that they convincingly recreate a broken down house 3041 02:41:13.079 --> 02:41:15.920 from that period. It's that's really nice. 3042 02:41:15.959 --> 02:41:24.239 And maybe that's where the main thing. Yeah, yeah, we see, 3043 02:41:24.319 --> 02:41:26.520 we suddenly see, after watching all his friends die, that 3044 02:41:26.639 --> 02:41:29.239 he's something that old Ricky here suddenly gets a conscience 3045 02:41:29.280 --> 02:41:31.120 about himself. Huh he does. 3046 02:41:31.280 --> 02:41:33.399 Yeah, And while he's going to get help for Don, 3047 02:41:33.479 --> 02:41:36.440 who can't move because of his injured leg, he gets 3048 02:41:36.479 --> 02:41:39.600 the idea that, well, maybe if we pull the old 3049 02:41:39.680 --> 02:41:43.399 car up from the pond. And it's not real clear 3050 02:41:43.559 --> 02:41:45.600 how he thinks this is going to solve everything, but 3051 02:41:45.719 --> 02:41:49.600 he wants to make it the nineteen twenty nine incident, right, 3052 02:41:49.719 --> 02:41:52.200 So he tells the sheriff what he and his friends 3053 02:41:52.280 --> 02:41:54.360 did to the woman back then, and that they pushed 3054 02:41:54.399 --> 02:41:57.000 the car into the pond. So they go and they 3055 02:41:57.040 --> 02:41:57.879 get on. 3056 02:41:57.920 --> 02:41:59.680 The pond routine and he thinks that the woman is 3057 02:41:59.719 --> 02:42:02.639 that he thinks the woman is in the car or 3058 02:42:02.680 --> 02:42:03.200 not in the car. 3059 02:42:03.680 --> 02:42:06.840 He thinks somehow if he can dredge up the body 3060 02:42:06.959 --> 02:42:10.120 and expose the body, that the ghost will leave Don alone. 3061 02:42:10.760 --> 02:42:13.159 And it's never really clear how that works, but he 3062 02:42:13.319 --> 02:42:15.840 gets a tow truck and a crane and a wench 3063 02:42:15.879 --> 02:42:19.319 and everything, and they they dredge the pond and then. 3064 02:42:21.000 --> 02:42:23.079 The old pond the car of the pond. Magic trick 3065 02:42:23.239 --> 02:42:23.680 with the car. 3066 02:42:23.760 --> 02:42:27.000 Right, Yeah, Yeah, it's it is kind of an unexpected that, 3067 02:42:27.159 --> 02:42:28.840 like that's not where you expect the plot to go, 3068 02:42:29.159 --> 02:42:32.600 you know. But Done is waiting in the house and 3069 02:42:32.840 --> 02:42:35.000 Eva's ghost is right there and she's reaching out for 3070 02:42:35.159 --> 02:42:37.920 him and she's like a skeleton hand touching his throat 3071 02:42:38.200 --> 02:42:40.920 and he's screaming and and so. But just at that 3072 02:42:41.079 --> 02:42:44.600 moment they dredge the car up from the pond. Ricky 3073 02:42:45.000 --> 02:42:48.280 or somebody opens the door and then out comes Eva's 3074 02:42:48.319 --> 02:42:51.280 corpse straight at him, and Ricky is going like, you know, 3075 02:42:51.440 --> 02:42:53.440 like you're afraid that's going to kill him, since all 3076 02:42:53.479 --> 02:42:57.079 his other friends are already dead. But the body of 3077 02:42:57.159 --> 02:43:00.680 Eva collapses right there on the ground. And then suddenly, 3078 02:43:01.159 --> 02:43:05.680 back at Eva's house, her ghost or the ghost of 3079 02:43:05.719 --> 02:43:08.879 all whatever she is is gone and done is safe too. 3080 02:43:09.879 --> 02:43:10.079 Yeah. 3081 02:43:10.520 --> 02:43:13.920 Well yeah, it was like every she needed everybody to 3082 02:43:14.079 --> 02:43:15.440 know what happened to you. 3083 02:43:16.360 --> 02:43:18.920 Yeah, And and just by their dredging up the car 3084 02:43:19.159 --> 02:43:25.959 and exposing the body somehow or other, her her visits satisfied. Right, Yeah, yeah, 3085 02:43:26.200 --> 02:43:28.360 that puts you, Yeah. 3086 02:43:29.159 --> 02:43:31.440 Which you know, to a certain extent, I feel like 3087 02:43:32.040 --> 02:43:34.360 that's kind of these tropes and that that that you know, 3088 02:43:34.520 --> 02:43:37.840 there's some sort of you know, something attracting keeping these uh, 3089 02:43:38.000 --> 02:43:39.600 these you know, this isn't the first time we've seen 3090 02:43:39.680 --> 02:43:42.079 some sort of a priestess of a witchcraft type of 3091 02:43:42.120 --> 02:43:46.200 deal sorcery kind of being that's haunting folks until they 3092 02:43:46.280 --> 02:43:48.920 can get something back from the person a heart or 3093 02:43:49.000 --> 02:43:51.799 a long maybe maybe kidney. I'm not sure they're on 3094 02:43:51.799 --> 02:43:54.319 an organ donor list in the spirit world or what, 3095 02:43:54.520 --> 02:43:56.399 but they're always after something right. 3096 02:43:57.120 --> 02:43:58.879 Right, like a pound of flesh? 3097 02:43:59.000 --> 02:44:00.239 Yeah, yeah, there you go. 3098 02:44:00.719 --> 02:44:00.920 Yeah. 3099 02:44:01.760 --> 02:44:05.360 So I'm trying to remember why I saved this from 3100 02:44:05.440 --> 02:44:09.000 the film, and I just got distracted because, uh was 3101 02:44:09.040 --> 02:44:11.559 that it? We're I'll give you all some closing statements, 3102 02:44:11.600 --> 02:44:13.239 but that was I thought that was a great recap 3103 02:44:13.319 --> 02:44:16.000 of events. But I had saved two notes from earlier 3104 02:44:16.079 --> 02:44:18.840 I said that were really weird and creepy synchronistic events 3105 02:44:18.879 --> 02:44:20.479 for me when I was watching this film and reading 3106 02:44:20.479 --> 02:44:22.680 about stuff. Yeah, and I don't remember why I saved 3107 02:44:22.719 --> 02:44:24.079 this lady to do it, to give me a second, 3108 02:44:24.120 --> 02:44:26.280 but she I just got distracted because she was married 3109 02:44:26.319 --> 02:44:28.680 to Roll Doll speaking of Deadler. 3110 02:44:28.520 --> 02:44:31.840 Oh Patrician Neil. Yeah, I almost forget. Yeah, she was 3111 02:44:32.680 --> 02:44:33.360 Ricky's wife. 3112 02:44:33.440 --> 02:44:36.040 Yeah, that's right, she was Ricky's wife, Thank you, sir. 3113 02:44:36.120 --> 02:44:37.559 I knew there was some reason why I saved this. 3114 02:44:37.760 --> 02:44:39.719 Yeah, and why can't I think of her name Stella? 3115 02:44:40.200 --> 02:44:42.639 Yeah? Yeah, so she was married to the old diddler 3116 02:44:42.719 --> 02:44:45.399 Roll Doll. Because them Snosberry's from Willi Wanka turned out 3117 02:44:45.440 --> 02:44:46.680 to be dicks and not candy. 3118 02:44:47.239 --> 02:44:51.360 Yeah she was. At one point she was Dashal Hammett's 3119 02:44:51.399 --> 02:44:52.079 girlfriend too. 3120 02:44:52.760 --> 02:44:56.239 Oh interesting, Yeah, when roll Doll was telling folks that 3121 02:44:56.360 --> 02:44:58.959 the Snosberry's tastes like Snosberry's according to them kids. He 3122 02:44:58.959 --> 02:45:01.559 would later just crib to Snosbery in the later book 3123 02:45:01.680 --> 02:45:02.360 as Dix. 3124 02:45:06.399 --> 02:45:10.040 In fact, according to one of Nashal Hammett's daughters, Hammett 3125 02:45:10.120 --> 02:45:13.479 warned her, uh, don't get married to him. He's not 3126 02:45:13.559 --> 02:45:15.799 a good person, or something to that effects. So that 3127 02:45:15.920 --> 02:45:16.600 that's interesting. 3128 02:45:16.799 --> 02:45:19.520 Yeah, that is interesting. Well, can't be the purge there. 3129 02:45:19.559 --> 02:45:23.159 It's my Abin Costello Cohort and Idaho. Four conversations we 3130 02:45:23.239 --> 02:45:25.159 do over there on his show, and he's gonna love 3131 02:45:25.239 --> 02:45:28.159 this one. So as you can see her. Patricia O'Neil 3132 02:45:28.239 --> 02:45:31.079 was a member of Phi Beta Pie, the sorority girls 3133 02:45:31.159 --> 02:45:33.639 up and around that Idaho. For murder, we're all Phi 3134 02:45:33.719 --> 02:45:38.680 Beta Pie. Interesting. Interesting And the man, the male, the 3135 02:45:38.760 --> 02:45:42.280 male victim was Sigma Chai. And in the film we 3136 02:45:42.399 --> 02:45:46.079 hear them singing this song Sweetheart of signay Chais. 3137 02:45:47.280 --> 02:45:50.920 Yes, that's what we're singing it down down below eas window. 3138 02:45:51.120 --> 02:45:58.040 Yeah. Yeah, the Snisberry like Snilesberry's. Yeah, according to these guys, 3139 02:45:58.079 --> 02:45:59.600 and eat a bunch of dicks. If you asked me 3140 02:45:59.639 --> 02:46:02.040 to believe this is somehow just weird circumstances. 3141 02:46:02.520 --> 02:46:04.639 I would not put that pass role though at all. 3142 02:46:04.959 --> 02:46:07.079 He was a very peculiar person. 3143 02:46:08.120 --> 02:46:10.360 I'm just saying, like, it's weird. It just weird to 3144 02:46:10.399 --> 02:46:12.479 me that in the future past all of these things. Again, 3145 02:46:12.520 --> 02:46:14.799 I don't want to get into comments of questions of 3146 02:46:14.879 --> 02:46:16.680 time and concept of time, but it is weird to 3147 02:46:16.760 --> 02:46:18.639 me how some of these things work that, like you 3148 02:46:18.719 --> 02:46:20.840 can have such you know, elements where an actress as 3149 02:46:20.840 --> 02:46:22.559 a member of the same sorority as these victims, and 3150 02:46:22.559 --> 02:46:24.639 they're singing a song about the other victim and the 3151 02:46:24.840 --> 02:46:26.879 fraternity he's from. It's just a weird concept of the 3152 02:46:26.920 --> 02:46:28.079 movie for me to watch. And I was like, what 3153 02:46:28.159 --> 02:46:29.200 the fuck's going on right now? 3154 02:46:29.239 --> 02:46:29.399 Man? 3155 02:46:29.959 --> 02:46:31.520 Gil Bill Searns went off in my brain hole, is 3156 02:46:31.559 --> 02:46:32.040 what I'm saying. 3157 02:46:32.280 --> 02:46:34.840 I think all of this stuff is absolutely conscious. I mean, 3158 02:46:34.920 --> 02:46:35.440 it just doesn't. 3159 02:46:36.239 --> 02:46:41.319 It's you know, yeah, well, I'm what I'm saying about 3160 02:46:41.360 --> 02:46:43.799 time and magic. It's like and again I want to 3161 02:46:43.879 --> 02:46:45.719 this is a conversation for a different day. But I 3162 02:46:45.799 --> 02:46:48.879 think part of this and Peter Lavenda, the OTO member, 3163 02:46:49.280 --> 02:46:51.120 brings us up in his book relative to some of 3164 02:46:51.200 --> 02:46:53.559 the son the same matters right, talking about time and 3165 02:46:53.639 --> 02:46:56.040 centers for forces and whatnot, and how you can how 3166 02:46:56.120 --> 02:46:59.000 these magicians impact time and a non linear fashion. And 3167 02:46:59.079 --> 02:47:00.959 again it's a it's a lot of stuff to get 3168 02:47:01.000 --> 02:47:03.479 into right now, but these are concepts similar to a 3169 02:47:03.559 --> 02:47:07.159 relative to the subject via folks like the OTO member 3170 02:47:07.159 --> 02:47:08.600 Peter Lavenda, right. 3171 02:47:08.920 --> 02:47:13.799 Yeah, yeah, And these people they do, they're very serious 3172 02:47:13.879 --> 02:47:16.200 about what they do. A lot of them, well, this 3173 02:47:16.479 --> 02:47:18.520 this stuff is silly that they're into, but it's but 3174 02:47:18.680 --> 02:47:20.440 they take it very very seriously. 3175 02:47:21.159 --> 02:47:25.000 Right, I say that all the time. Yeah, I agree. 3176 02:47:25.840 --> 02:47:28.319 Yeah, when when, for example, when people try to try 3177 02:47:28.319 --> 02:47:30.479 to suggest to me that the Church of Satan and 3178 02:47:30.840 --> 02:47:33.000 Antonavay was just a carnival barker and it was all 3179 02:47:33.079 --> 02:47:34.920 bet it is all a gambit, and I'm like, all right, dude, 3180 02:47:34.920 --> 02:47:36.440 well that's hilarious, but I don't buy it. 3181 02:47:36.799 --> 02:47:38.840 Yeah, And that's exactly what they want people to think. 3182 02:47:38.879 --> 02:47:39.719 It's all just a joke. 3183 02:47:40.440 --> 02:47:45.000 Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, we're we're just we're just agnostic. 3184 02:47:45.200 --> 02:47:48.159 We just like the Lares devils and weird shit. 3185 02:47:49.559 --> 02:47:54.399 Like the Larvest devils. You know what it is to 3186 02:47:54.680 --> 02:47:56.639 This is something that I always bring up when I 3187 02:47:56.719 --> 02:48:00.920 cover these type of topics is if they weren't results, 3188 02:48:01.639 --> 02:48:04.200 why would they keep doing it. They've been doing it 3189 02:48:04.360 --> 02:48:08.040 forever and obviously they're getting some kind of results, so 3190 02:48:08.440 --> 02:48:10.719 you don't have to believe in it, but they do. 3191 02:48:11.200 --> 02:48:14.319 And obviously it's working for them, or they wouldn't do 3192 02:48:14.520 --> 02:48:15.479 the shit that they're doing. 3193 02:48:15.559 --> 02:48:18.559 Oh yeah. And when I say this nonlinear aspect of time, 3194 02:48:18.600 --> 02:48:21.799 where ideas come from, especially for writers, and again suggested 3195 02:48:21.840 --> 02:48:23.760 by Peter Leavenda, where I even came up but started 3196 02:48:23.799 --> 02:48:26.239 going on this path, not just his ideas, but he's 3197 02:48:26.280 --> 02:48:28.040 the one who sent me on this path. I believe 3198 02:48:28.079 --> 02:48:31.360 he mentions it in Sinister Forces. There was a book written, 3199 02:48:31.360 --> 02:48:33.879 I believe in eighteen eighty seven called The titan which 3200 02:48:33.959 --> 02:48:37.200 was about an indestructible cruise linership that went between Europe 3201 02:48:37.200 --> 02:48:40.520 and America and suddenly hit an iceberg and sank. Well 3202 02:48:40.559 --> 02:48:42.520 that just so happened to occur again later in the 3203 02:48:42.600 --> 02:48:45.319 future real world time is the Titanic. So that's all 3204 02:48:45.319 --> 02:48:46.840 I'm saying here with these circumstances. 3205 02:48:47.280 --> 02:48:51.040 Yeah, no, absolutely, oh yeah, you get in, Julie. 3206 02:48:50.840 --> 02:48:53.000 Get something obvious, just for at least for the advocation 3207 02:48:53.079 --> 02:48:54.959 of the folks of the interwebs. Who have missed my 3208 02:48:55.200 --> 02:49:00.200 you know routine and you know unsolicited tirades on time time, 3209 02:49:00.319 --> 02:49:02.479 then you know there's part of it on right there. 3210 02:49:03.440 --> 02:49:05.479 I appreciate both of your all's time and night speaking 3211 02:49:05.520 --> 02:49:07.840 of time, Julia and John both, and for blowing up 3212 02:49:07.840 --> 02:49:09.200 my brain whole a number of times. 3213 02:49:09.000 --> 02:49:10.079 Which thanks I just got. 3214 02:49:10.159 --> 02:49:12.000 I just started getting walk in that cycle for a moment. 3215 02:49:12.079 --> 02:49:14.200 There are things you suggested to me and I didn't know. 3216 02:49:14.200 --> 02:49:15.959 I'm like, wait a second, I got to close the 3217 02:49:15.959 --> 02:49:18.959 show out first before I start doing that. So I 3218 02:49:19.000 --> 02:49:20.159 appreciate both of your all time. 3219 02:49:20.680 --> 02:49:27.159 Yeah you yes, Yes, great to meet you. John, I 3220 02:49:27.200 --> 02:49:35.200 always love go ahead, thank you, No, that's all I had. JJ. 3221 02:49:35.280 --> 02:49:35.600 Go ahead. 3222 02:49:35.639 --> 02:49:37.959 I'll make sure I connect y'all with the emails and 3223 02:49:38.000 --> 02:49:40.760 I'll put your email Julia in the show notes for 3224 02:49:40.879 --> 02:49:43.719 folks to reach out to you, especially maze Iss, who 3225 02:49:43.799 --> 02:49:46.239 I again love to hear more thoughts there, ma'am. That's 3226 02:49:46.280 --> 02:49:50.040 great stuff. I appreciate the input and chat for all 3227 02:49:50.079 --> 02:49:52.000 the folks in the web as well, for sure, and 3228 02:49:52.120 --> 02:49:54.479 if I can offer y'all, I appre appreciate y'all's review 3229 02:49:54.520 --> 02:49:56.639 and again all the ideas we've shared your night's great 3230 02:49:56.680 --> 02:50:00.479 stuff like to offer y'all both closing st a, ma'am, 3231 02:50:00.479 --> 02:50:02.120 would you like to go first, and anything you'd like 3232 02:50:02.200 --> 02:50:03.600 to recap or anything you like to plug. 3233 02:50:05.200 --> 02:50:09.360 I thought this movie was really awesome. John obviously reads 3234 02:50:09.399 --> 02:50:11.920 the book every October. It sounds like it's just a 3235 02:50:12.000 --> 02:50:15.200 part of his Halloween ritual thing that he does. I 3236 02:50:15.360 --> 02:50:18.559 have a similar one. I watch American Horror Story season 3237 02:50:18.639 --> 02:50:22.719 one in three every October, just something I like to do. 3238 02:50:22.959 --> 02:50:26.479 I think there's a lot of conspiracy stuff within American 3239 02:50:26.559 --> 02:50:30.440 Horror Story. And so yeah, it's just nice meeting people 3240 02:50:30.600 --> 02:50:34.440 who know what's up and having a good conversation. JJ, 3241 02:50:34.639 --> 02:50:37.280 thanks for the invite, John, great to meet you. Yes, 3242 02:50:37.559 --> 02:50:41.200 the chat was on fire tonight, so thanks to everybody 3243 02:50:41.280 --> 02:50:43.719 in the chat. And yeah, that's it for me. 3244 02:50:45.079 --> 02:50:48.280 That's awesome. No, thank you, ma'am. And I definitely one 3245 02:50:48.319 --> 02:50:50.360 thing I was thinking, and we'll turn over to John 3246 02:50:50.399 --> 02:50:51.920 for an answer, but i'd like to get both y'all 3247 02:50:51.959 --> 02:50:54.520 back on to discuss Program to Kill after John gets 3248 02:50:54.520 --> 02:50:55.200 a chance to read it. 3249 02:50:56.120 --> 02:50:58.120 Absolutely, I'm down for that anytime. 3250 02:50:58.760 --> 02:51:00.920 What do you say, Johnny? Gunny close statements, we walcome 3251 02:51:00.959 --> 02:51:03.120 back and I'm sure you're walking back any time to 3252 02:51:03.239 --> 02:51:05.399 talk any of these things. But you know, I would 3253 02:51:05.399 --> 02:51:07.879 love to get your input on the Program to Kill 3254 02:51:07.879 --> 02:51:09.000 once you get a chance to read that. And I 3255 02:51:09.040 --> 02:51:11.520 don't knock over my micro front with the karate chop. 3256 02:51:12.000 --> 02:51:14.399 Yeah, I look forward to that. Yeah, I'm gonna start 3257 02:51:14.440 --> 02:51:17.280 reading it tomorrow. So yeah, and and thank you guys. 3258 02:51:17.360 --> 02:51:20.600 And I'm just uh, I'm still working on the book. 3259 02:51:20.600 --> 02:51:22.239 I don't know when that's gonna come out, but it's 3260 02:51:22.360 --> 02:51:24.520 it's gonna be a big one. And it's uh, it's 3261 02:51:24.559 --> 02:51:27.040 taken me a long time because I'm doing all the 3262 02:51:27.239 --> 02:51:30.159 editing and all the drafts myself. So I'm just working 3263 02:51:30.200 --> 02:51:32.440 on it bit by bit, but it'll it'll be out eventually. 3264 02:51:32.920 --> 02:51:35.000 It's good to have a better uh probably like you 3265 02:51:35.159 --> 02:51:37.159 you know, you can stand behind rather than one that's timely, 3266 02:51:37.159 --> 02:51:37.639 you know what I mean. 3267 02:51:37.799 --> 02:51:39.879 Right, Yeah, I want to I want to take some 3268 02:51:40.000 --> 02:51:40.440 care of it. 3269 02:51:40.639 --> 02:51:41.360 So so it. 3270 02:51:43.840 --> 02:51:44.840 Passion project. 3271 02:51:45.319 --> 02:51:48.719 Yeah, that's great stuff. And like I said, I have 3272 02:51:48.799 --> 02:51:50.719 all your all folks in the inter webs can find 3273 02:51:50.799 --> 02:51:53.479 Julia's stuff, John stuff and the links and their show 3274 02:51:53.520 --> 02:51:57.120 in the show notes. And uh, I don't have any 3275 02:51:57.159 --> 02:51:59.719 closing statements myself other than I greatly appreciate your all 3276 02:51:59.799 --> 02:52:02.760 time conversation, all the time of the and chad of 3277 02:52:02.799 --> 02:52:05.680 the folks of the interwebs, and tune in for Operation 3278 02:52:05.959 --> 02:52:09.600 GCD Thursdays. I'm a Patreon. I'll do a about a 3279 02:52:09.680 --> 02:52:12.239 thirty minute preview here on the on the youtubes and 3280 02:52:12.239 --> 02:52:14.239 the other stuff, and then I go over to the 3281 02:52:14.280 --> 02:52:18.120 Patreon Thursdays and Sundays. But tomorrow is my first the 3282 02:52:18.200 --> 02:52:22.760 Anatomy of a Satanic Panic, which again largely is gonna 3283 02:52:22.799 --> 02:52:25.680 involve not this guy, not the muppet version of this guy, 3284 02:52:25.760 --> 02:52:29.399 but the original version of this guy, Michael Lokino. You know, 3285 02:52:29.559 --> 02:52:31.360 like I said, Piops, I'm not gonna be like, well, 3286 02:52:31.559 --> 02:52:34.920 I'm happy to discuss elements of Satanic murders that have 3287 02:52:35.040 --> 02:52:37.040 existed in around the sun of same situation or the 3288 02:52:37.079 --> 02:52:40.840 process or anto these other similar murders. We've discussed this evening. 3289 02:52:40.959 --> 02:52:44.799 But I'm really looking at focusing on unpacking the propaganda, 3290 02:52:44.879 --> 02:52:49.000 the psychological operations, and then comparing these these major events 3291 02:52:49.000 --> 02:52:50.399 that we know of the Son of Sam and stuff, 3292 02:52:50.399 --> 02:52:53.000 and again showing that these aren't the only you know, 3293 02:52:53.120 --> 02:52:55.440 these aren't these this is not the only example, It's 3294 02:52:55.440 --> 02:52:56.959 not an outlier right. There's a lot more of the 3295 02:52:56.959 --> 02:53:00.159 ship that doesn't even get talked about. For example, you'll 3296 02:53:00.159 --> 02:53:02.399 see the Presidio board in the background here, because you 3297 02:53:02.399 --> 02:53:04.280 know he was stationed to the presidio associated with the 3298 02:53:04.680 --> 02:53:09.079 Presidio daycare situation. As Julia's now you're head any agreements, 3299 02:53:09.079 --> 02:53:11.319 She's well aware of what I'm talking about there, Julia, 3300 02:53:11.319 --> 02:53:13.239 would you believe that's not the only daycar that popped 3301 02:53:13.239 --> 02:53:15.079 off with that same epidemic and the same problem. 3302 02:53:16.200 --> 02:53:20.920 I would believe that one hundred. I think McMartin Presidio, 3303 02:53:21.799 --> 02:53:26.959 I mean they're just uh, you know, drops in the bucket. Yeah, 3304 02:53:27.040 --> 02:53:30.319 if you if you can imagine. And just as a 3305 02:53:30.360 --> 02:53:34.520 closing thought, this is a closing thought anyone who has 3306 02:53:34.639 --> 02:53:37.440 read Program to Kill Her or they're familiar with McMartin 3307 02:53:37.479 --> 02:53:43.399 preschool scandal or the Presidio daycare scandal. I just recently 3308 02:53:43.479 --> 02:53:47.959 saw something saying that the movie with Robin Williams Missus Doubtfire, 3309 02:53:48.559 --> 02:53:53.280 that character, Missus Doubtfire is based on the preschool teacher 3310 02:53:53.479 --> 02:53:58.600 at McMartin, down to the exact look, wardrobe, everything. If 3311 02:53:58.639 --> 02:54:00.920 you look at the McMartin precs school teacher next to 3312 02:54:01.040 --> 02:54:04.879 Robin Williams as missus doubtfire. They're spitting images of each other. 3313 02:54:06.079 --> 02:54:08.799 So that's a rabbit hole for the listeners to. 3314 02:54:08.879 --> 02:54:11.079 Go and look it down. I'm gonna look at it 3315 02:54:11.239 --> 02:54:13.600 as we get off of here, in fact, but yeah, 3316 02:54:13.680 --> 02:54:18.479 that's just for sure, no, thank you. And from Presidio 3317 02:54:18.639 --> 02:54:21.200 to West Point at that same time in the eighties 3318 02:54:21.319 --> 02:54:24.639 there was more than one diddling scandal. So that's from 3319 02:54:24.680 --> 02:54:28.000 coast to coast, that's my point. We were so as 3320 02:54:28.040 --> 02:54:30.360 part of the propaganda and magic show, we're sold these 3321 02:54:30.479 --> 02:54:33.079 one off incidents and say everyone, look at this incident. 3322 02:54:33.440 --> 02:54:35.399 This incident didn't occur anywhere else. It only happen here 3323 02:54:35.399 --> 02:54:37.200 at the Presidio, within the confines of the Persida and 3324 02:54:37.280 --> 02:54:39.559 only involved Michael Keino. And I assure you that ain't 3325 02:54:39.600 --> 02:54:40.120 the full tail. 3326 02:54:40.520 --> 02:54:41.319 Yeah nope. 3327 02:54:42.000 --> 02:54:46.239 So folks want to check out more of that business, 3328 02:54:46.360 --> 02:54:50.879 please check out Operation GC Thursdays and uh. On that note, 3329 02:54:51.120 --> 02:54:53.159 and if he yelled on anything else, I thank you 3330 02:54:53.239 --> 02:54:55.680 all both for your time and folks of the interwebs, 3331 02:54:56.760 --> 02:54:57.479 thanks a lot. 3332 02:54:57.520 --> 02:54:57.840 Enjoyed it. 3333 02:54:58.440 --> 02:54:58.760 Thank you. 3334 02:55:08.079 --> 02:55:08.120 O