WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.960 Welcome to Truth Time with doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner. 2 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.080 Per usual, we kind of all joy and I mean 3 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:12.519 all joy, and you are here with us on this 4 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.880 a day. Today is our teaching, the birth day day 5 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:20.440 where we go deep about events or personalities that have shaped, impacted, 6 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:24.320 shook up our world. And today we're talking about none 7 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:28.839 other than A Jack A. Johnson now john author. Johnson 8 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:33.000 was born on March thirty first, eighteen seventy eight, and 9 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:38.079 he passed away on June tenth, nineteen forty six. He 10 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:43.320 was nicknamed the Galveston Giant. He was an American boxer 11 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:47.640 and African American boxer to be specific, who was fighting 12 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.439 at the height of Jim Crow. 13 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.079 Who doc he really? 14 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:54.920 I mean, he messed up the minds of a whole 15 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.840 bunch of white folks during that Jim Crow era and 16 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.399 even beyond. I think even today he would be among 17 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:05.959 some of the greatest twentieth and twenty first century of boxers. 18 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:08.120 If he were alive today, he would. 19 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.799 Have given many of them a run for his a 20 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:13.079 run for their money. 21 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:15.079 So he really became known as. 22 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:20.359 The first black man to be a heavyweight champion, to 23 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:25.280 really capture the imagination more importantly of black people who 24 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.920 really saw the battles that he was fighting and the 25 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:34.879 matches that he won as really the black community overall, 26 00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:40.239 winning winning against Jim Crow, winning against hatred, winning against bigotry, 27 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.439 and to be honestly, you know, just winning against white supremacy. 28 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.599 So black people really internalized Jack Johnson in a way 29 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.879 that I don't think many understand. He was not just 30 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.159 a boxer. 31 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.959 In a ring. He was boxing for the heart, to soul, 32 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.840 the respect, you know, giving black people something to really 33 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:01.879 be proud of in a way to say he's sticking 34 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:02.439 it to the man. 35 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:09.439 Quite honestly, no, that's very, very real that Jack Johnson 36 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.039 was one of the freest black men in the shit 37 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:18.159 of the country. And that freedom when hand in hand 38 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:22.599 with a dignity and respect that he was fighting for 39 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.360 not just on behalf of himself, but on behalf of 40 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:32.919 a black folk who terrorized and traumatized. And so when 41 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:37.879 he was knocking white brothers out, that was a triumph 42 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.919 of black dignity and black respect in a context because 43 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:47.680 you think of Jim Crow America, the only space in 44 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:51.879 America where black people were treated fairly, it was the 45 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:55.280 boxing ring. But you got one set of rules, you 46 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:00.080 got one referee. Everybody can see it because it is 47 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:05.719 a national and international spectacle. So we finally have an 48 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:11.000 opportunity for what taverage of fundamental fairness. And let's see 49 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:15.759 who wins. And he knocks out the first Jefferies. Then 50 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:18.520 he knocks out his brother, Jeffries. And when he knocks 51 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:22.639 out the old man Jeffries. In July fourth, nineteen ten, 52 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:26.039 as you know, ten black people were killed that night. 53 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:30.360 They were riots of the country of white folk just 54 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:35.280 attacking black folk because they could take the fact that 55 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.039 a black man had eaten a white man. That's how 56 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:44.680 deep and sick the white supremacy was then and continues 57 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:49.960 to be in various ways. Now, Jack Johnson becomes symbol 58 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:58.080 as well as literal figure of dignity, respect and freedom 59 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:02.560 and triumph for black folk. And just like then and now, 60 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:08.439 black foolks were hungry for dignity, hungry for respect, hungry 61 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.120 for freedom. 62 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.680 Yeah, that'sdeed got the hungry for respect, hungry for dignity, 63 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:19.240 and hungry for freedom. So let us I want to 64 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:24.160 rest a little bit on the race riots. We know 65 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.519 that the bloody or the red summer, red summer of 66 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.839 nineteen nineteen or race riots broke out all over the 67 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.199 country at the hands of white people just randomly attacking 68 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:35.959 black people. 69 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.319 I mean, it was like a disease. It was almost 70 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.600 like the spreading of the flu or covid or something like. 71 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.399 It was a plague. You know that that and. 72 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.839 This country does not reckon We go enough dot that is. 73 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:55.199 That's domestic terrorism for you. I mean, that stuff is real. 74 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.519 We don't even have to go. We should always reference 75 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.319 child of Slavery always. I really personally don't care what 76 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.600 anybody has to say about it. You know, I agree 77 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:08.800 with the fact that you know, James Baldwin once said, 78 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:10.759 know from whence you came? If you know from whence 79 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:13.839 you can, it's virtually nowhere that you cannot go. And 80 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:15.519 you can't say you love the tree if you hate 81 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.000 the root. That is our reference point. It's not the 82 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.959 only reference point in the great magnificence of black people, 83 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:26.879 but it is the seminal reference point in terms of 84 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.480 our souljourn in the United States of America. Now we 85 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.519 want to go back to the continent, the motherland where 86 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:37.839 our ancestors hail from. That's a whole nother glorious story 87 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:41.079 which I believe allowed us to bear the burden and 88 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.800 the beauty of being black, because it is both of 89 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:47.759 those things. But make no mistake, white supremacy and just 90 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.560 the literal deep seated hatred for us generally speaking, is 91 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.920 attached to that white supremacy and just hatred for no reason. 92 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.560 So the race riot. So I bring up bread Summer 93 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.240 in nineteen nineteen just to remind people of that. And 94 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:06.279 then let's talk about this race riot, the Johnson jeff 95 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.920 Jeffries riot, which I'm sure a lot of people don't 96 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:12.439 know about, probably have never heard of. But as you 97 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.639 laid out, doctor, series of race riots that occurred throughout 98 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:21.120 the United States. The African American boxer, the Galveston Giant 99 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:28.040 knocked out, defeated James J. Jeffries and a boxing match 100 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.639 termed the fight of the century. They actually called that 101 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:37.160 fight the fight of the century. Wow, that's heavy to 102 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:39.680 put all that on one black man. 103 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.959 When we come forward, we will continue our teach in 104 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:44.800 that Thursday. 105 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.959 Today, doctor West and I are talking about the one 106 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:53.319 and only Jack Johnson, the first African American everyweight champion 107 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:56.879 of the world, who did his thing at a time 108 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.920 where Wow, it was even more dangerous to do their 109 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.720 to do something that he did. Oh when we continue, 110 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:07.079 So glad you're here with us today on this teaching Thursday. 111 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.600 We all know that on Thursdays, doctors and myself we 112 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.480 go really deep talking about a luminary of people who 113 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:18.000 did not liking themselves to be luminaries. Man, they ain't 114 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.079 set out to be luminaries, but baby, did they shake 115 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.959 in shape of the world. Or we talk about events, 116 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.759 and this gives us the opportunity with you to go 117 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.519 a little deeper. Today we are talking about the heavyweight 118 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:33.199 champion Jack Johnson, who fought back boxing matches during the 119 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.360 height of Jim Crow. He really set this country on fire. 120 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:40.720 And so doctors, as we were now that we've come forward, 121 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:44.160 we were talking about those Johnson Jeffreys race. 122 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:45.519 Riots and. 123 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.680 The fact that this that riot, you know, it was 124 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:56.600 set off only because Johnson beat a white man fair 125 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.079 and square in a boxing match that had rules set 126 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.680 up and he beat him fair and square and the 127 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:10.720 white psyche could not take it. And I'm just we 128 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:12.800 wrestled with a lot on this show. I'm wrestling with 129 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:16.279 the fact that they got so upset that they started 130 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:21.600 rioting by being white people against black people because this 131 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:25.600 black man fair and square. This wasn't no street brawl, 132 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:29.360 this was in a boxing ring and he beat Jeffrey's 133 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.920 fair and square. And that set white people off. And 134 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:34.720 not only did it set them off, they felt as though, 135 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:37.840 and they acted in this way, that they had card 136 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:42.679 blanche to just randomly start just beating up black people, 137 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.000 so that they felt a sense of entitlement, right, that 138 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.559 they're always supposed to be on top, that they're always 139 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.039 supposed to win, so much so that they go out 140 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:52.080 and stoke violence against black people. 141 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:58.559 That's exactly rays, exactly right. I mean the depth of 142 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:03.360 the hatred rooted in a depth of insecurity. 143 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.519 I mean there's a story right here in New York. 144 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.759 Right after the white right after the fight, what people 145 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.200 were looking at black folks thinking, our hustle, you think 146 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.639 you're gonna be out beyond your position. 147 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:22.240 Now now that black doubt brother Jeffery. And in a 148 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.200 way I wouldn't even call it riot. 149 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.039 It was a massacre of black people white be right, 150 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.600 That's really was, And it was a massive one. And uh, 151 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.600 I mean fascinating to me, you know, I'm inn ur 152 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.559 Lee of course always viewed himself as an extension of Jackson, 153 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.519 and so did so did Miles Davis. You know my 154 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.320 great album nineteen seventy one on Jack Johnson. He said 155 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.840 it's one of his greatest albums. That he was a 156 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:55.720 boxer too, but he always felt so close to Jack Johnson. 157 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:59.440 When I asked Prince who his grand American hero was, he. 158 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:00.440 Said Jack Johnson. 159 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:03.799 No way, Well, yeah, he. 160 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:08.919 Said, Jack Johnson. This brother's in the most hate, wow, 161 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:11.440 the history of the country. 162 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.240 And he's a free man. He does what he wants 163 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:14.720 to do. 164 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:17.279 Of course, he got in a out of trouble in 165 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:21.000 his personal life, you know, messing with the white sisters. 166 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:25.320 And of course what did they do. They criminalized him, 167 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.120 to incarcerated. 168 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:28.960 Him, to. 169 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:35.080 Lev spent time in Leavenworth for doing what well, for 170 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.080 being a free man. 171 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:38.240 It was like, it was unbelievable. 172 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:43.240 That level self confidence, that level of willingness to do 173 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:47.000 what one wants to do in light of one's conception 174 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.840 of oneself is something always had a deep. 175 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:53.720 Appeal to the Muhammad Ali's and. 176 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:58.639 Princes and uh uh uh and and and and other 177 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:04.519 black men. In fact, also Ralph Ellison, Ralph Ellison his hero, 178 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.919 Oh yeah, and his and his letters with with the 179 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:14.600 with the Great uh uh, what's the brother's name, the 180 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.279 American I can't even remember his name right now, But 181 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.559 but in their letters they talk about how Jack Johnson 182 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:22.200 was their hero. 183 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:28.039 Definitely, that's that's amazing. That, yeah, that is something. 184 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.519 And to hear that Prince, I mean Prince and Jack 185 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.960 Johnson spoken of in the same voice that or breath, Wow, 186 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:39.000 that is amade. I don't know that little muggy is 187 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.039 gonna have everybody like saying. 188 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:44.840 What I'll be murray if anybody murray. 189 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:49.399 Ralph Ellison that Jack Johnson is one of the heroes 190 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:51.519 in that in that letters and. 191 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.879 Their letters and did you you know in your conversation 192 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:59.519 with the Purple One, did he did he go deeper 193 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:01.799 about it or just kind of put it out there? 194 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:05.879 Oh? No, Shoot, he talked about the books that he read. 195 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.519 He talked about the inspiration he felt anytime he was 196 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.960 down and out and felt as if he could there 197 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:14.600 was no way that he could make it. He would 198 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.399 go back and read about Jack Dohnson and how it 199 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.759 was that his brother could sustain his sense of self 200 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:27.759 in the face of unbelievable attack and assault. It's the 201 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:29.600 freedom and of course in some way, you know, the 202 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.440 black folk too were very hard on Jack Johnson once. 203 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:33.600 Yeah, then Booker T. 204 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:40.919 Washington was one of his biggest critics, most well known critics. 205 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:41.679 I believe. 206 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:47.279 I could I could imagine he looked he much too 207 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:54.320 much for Booker T. More respectability. You know, I'm not 208 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:59.360 gonna be spending time out the club with all this swagger. 209 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.360 And of course he got his cigar. 210 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.320 And he got his his new new car every two weeks. 211 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.679 And uh, I mean the sad thing is, you know, 212 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:12.440 even when he did get married to the white sister, 213 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.399 she committed suicide because it was too much pressure. 214 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:20.159 Our family turned, yeah, turned the owner. 215 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:23.240 And he wasn't acting right all the time either, but 216 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.840 it was it's he he he really had a heavy, heavy, 217 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.639 heavy burden, even though he was making a lot, making the. 218 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.679 Whole Yeah, I stick to endure in the. 219 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:39.960 White Box when he was down in Australia and beat 220 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.360 Tommy Burns the first time he became champion. Tommy Burns 221 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.200 got thirty thousand, he got five thousand. 222 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:49.559 He's still making. 223 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.519 Less money, but it was making a lot of money 224 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.879 for that average person was making about eight hundred dollars 225 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.200 a year, but still he get five thousand, and the 226 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:03.480 white ca ten third, thirty thousand, and he's supposed to 227 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.720 be satisfied and have with his position, and he's the champ. 228 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.320 Right, So they pay Jack Johnson the champ, the heavyweight 229 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.159 champion of the world, of the United States, of the 230 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.080 world and the world. And he gets five thousand, and 231 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.080 then his white probalyague term loosely received thirty thousand. I 232 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.200 mean doct that is a micro column of how black 233 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.159 people are treated in this society, continue to get less 234 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.639 compared to their white counterparts. That is happening today in 235 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:44.159 the twenty first century. Quite telling the pattern of white supremacy. 236 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.600 We can predict the pattern. It's the same pattern decade 237 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:53.159 after decade, century after century, year after year. Is the 238 00:14:53.200 --> 00:15:00.320 same pattern. So Jack Johnson, so the white community of 239 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.360 that time. So he won the championship in nineteen oh nine, 240 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.240 I believe, I think I'm right about that. But the 241 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.519 early nineteen hundreds he wins his champion was it nineteen 242 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:09.840 oh eight? 243 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.039 Was it nineteen oh eight? Nineteen oh eight, he wins 244 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:13.440 the championship, right. 245 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.639 I thought, okay, six nineteen oh eight. 246 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:19.799 Nineteen oh eight. 247 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.279 White people lose their mind even though he's in the 248 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:23.759 boxing ring, fighting fair and square. 249 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:24.639 They lost their mind. 250 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.679 So massacre and all that kind of stuff because Jeffries 251 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.120 was considered what the Great White Hope or something like that. 252 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:32.960 That's eight. 253 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.080 They convinced Jefferies to come out of retirement and not 254 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:41.679 yet Negro, to reaffirm their sense of white supremacy. He 255 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:47.080 goes back into training, gets into the ring July fourth, 256 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.200 nineteen ten, and this. 257 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:50.159 Great White Hope. 258 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.840 And remember remember the play, and I think they made 259 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.799 a movie out of it too. 260 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:56.799 They did. 261 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:01.679 I thought it was tall. Yeah, yes, but Samuel l 262 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.679 in that movie doc. I don't know why see Samuel 263 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.720 L in my mind for that movie. 264 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.960 Don't remember. That's a good question. Jones was the main 265 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.720 character when he played Okay Johnson. 266 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.679 Okay, yeah, maybe I'm mixing up movies on that one. 267 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.720 But yeah, So the. 268 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:24.840 White society goes crazy and they want to punish random 269 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.519 black people and rain or terror as you said. So 270 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.840 Jack Johnson, being the free black man that he was, 271 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.200 decided that you know, he any woman from any background. 272 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.320 That's true, that's true, Willing and Abel, you. 273 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.559 Know, I might rock that way, and he didn't rock 274 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.720 that way, committing. 275 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:53.320 The ultimate and I mean the ultimate transgression against white men. 276 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.399 This is exactly. 277 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.279 That is still true today. I want to wreck man. 278 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:08.160 Our audience reads doctor Francis Crest. Uh, oh my god, 279 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.400 welles and yes, thank you dot oh my god. 280 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.400 The book the book. 281 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:19.160 Uh lost the book, doc, But she wrote a magnificent book. 282 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.240 And I'm gonna look it up about the white psychology 283 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:24.240 and uh. 284 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:27.079 And and and and and and. 285 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:33.160 Black maleness and how in the white man's psyche he 286 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.759 can never ever get over the attributes of black men. 287 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.160 And the audience know who I'm going for. So it's 288 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:42.640 always that fight. That is why when black men were 289 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:47.640 lynched by and large, they were castrated at the same time. 290 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.920 That is, and Francis quest well, then she welles Lane, 291 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:59.920 she goes deep into the psychology of that that is 292 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.240 still very much in the white psyche to this to 293 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.599 this very day. So they go after Jack Johnson because 294 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:10.720 he created the ultimate sin was to be in relationship 295 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:15.880 with a white woman. Notwithstanding they can rape black women 296 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.799 at will, they did rape a black woman, particularly during enslavement. 297 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:27.200 Black women were always vulnerable, their daughters, their granddaughters, their nieces. 298 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.880 Always vulnerable. 299 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.480 We don't talk a lot about the sexual exploitation of 300 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:36.599 black men. Black men were sexually exploited too, because they 301 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:41.920 had absolutely no control male or female or person. Black 302 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:47.519 persons had no control over their bodies whatsoever. So you 303 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:54.720 got the physical abuse, the raw physical abuse in that 304 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.240 you're working them hard and killing them off, working them hard, 305 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.720 killing them off, working them or killing them off. So 306 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.240 you got that kind of physical you got that physical abuse, 307 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.880 you got the psychological abuse, and then you got the 308 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.119 sexual abuse. 309 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.359 Black men and black women. 310 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:15.920 And because of the kind of male psyche of not 311 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:17.920 really talking about it in this country, we don't talk 312 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.839 about that a lot about how black men are violated. 313 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:24.640 They have been violated, they continue to be violated. They 314 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:30.799 were really violated during that time, black women especially, So 315 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.839 so I'm thinking, Doc, you know, is it that guilt 316 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.160 that drives them crazy? I mean, they put they put 317 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.279 white women on a pedestal, and they a lot of 318 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.079 the lynchings, A lot of excuses for the lynchions was 319 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.920 they made black men to be out to be stark, raving, mad, 320 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:55.160 a sexual beast and I'm using exact words, and so 321 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.039 they violated the precious. 322 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.839 Womanhood of white women Meanwhile, it is white men. 323 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.440 Who were doing what they claimed that black men were 324 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.839 doing the wonderful, truly magnificent. 325 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:14.279 I'd have be well. Did all our research on this, 326 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:15.920 and most of. 327 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:18.559 The time it had nothing to do with black men 328 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.880 raping white women and had everything to do with black 329 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:27.119 men and black people being successful and uppity and getting 330 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.039 out of their station as to why they. 331 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.480 Would lynched them. But they lynched and castrated them. 332 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.359 Doc oh, lord lord. 333 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.200 Almost every time. 334 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:41.359 They sold their parts, they sold their parts, and the 335 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.599 private parts were the parts that they gained most money. 336 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.160 They profited most from that. One the boys about Sam 337 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.839 Holes when he's walking down the street and they see 338 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:58.799 Sam Holes's knuckles are being told and does his research 339 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:01.799 and he sees, of course, private parts are the parts 340 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:03.519 that they made the most money of. 341 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:05.880 And it was a public spectacle. 342 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.200 Over fifteen thousand and sick folks were out there to 343 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:13.519 watch the lynching as they then cut up his body 344 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.799 and sold various parts of his body. And that kind 345 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.759 of thing was not abnormal. See we're talking about levels 346 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.960 of sickness. He had levels of pathology. The great E 347 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.920 Franklin Fraser wrote an essay called White Supremacy as social 348 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:35.559 pathology came out in nineteen twenty seven, they ran him 349 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.480 out of town. It was in Atlanta, Atlanta University came 350 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:41.279 out and they ran him. 351 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.079 Out of town. This is in an academic journal, and 352 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:45.119 they lynching folk. 353 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.759 And he just calls it pathology and can tell the 354 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:50.000 truth that he's the one to get run out of town. 355 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.759 See, this is part of the. 356 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.839 Scope and breadth of the sickness and pathology. And somebody 357 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.920 got to tell about it. Somebody got to be canned 358 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.920 about it. Somebody got to be courageous enough to say, 359 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.240 this is beyond sickness, y'all. 360 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.440 And and this is probably some of the reasons. 361 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.079 I mean, we could fast forward to today, the twenty 362 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.240 first century real quick, because we go in and out 363 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.559 of history because we want people to understand the relevance. 364 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.759 If you want to understand why the criminal the legal 365 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.319 system treats black people differently, all we got to do 366 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.839 is go back to the root. You know, all of 367 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.440 these things are not happening in isolation. And that's what 368 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:36.039 we need people to know. Is connected, all intricately connected. Unfortunately, 369 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.720 So it is a pathology. It is a sickness. You know, 370 00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.160 even when black people were being lynched. I mean they 371 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:46.640 would bring out the whole community then and take pictures 372 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:48.960 and take the photograph. 373 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.559 They were posed with the bodies. They would even have 374 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.759 their babies out there. Doc, they have their little kids 375 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:58.079 out there pose. It was like a community gathering. 376 00:22:58.759 --> 00:22:59.960 Oh yeah the picture. 377 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.400 Yes, just you know what, when we come forward. When 378 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.920 we come forward, we will continue this conversation. This discussion 379 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:10.359 is teaching really about the great the first black heavyweight 380 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.559 champion of the world, the one and only Jack Johnson. 381 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.640 He was heavyweight champion from nineteen oh eight to nineteen fifteen. 382 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.680 He gave Black people so much pride and he shook 383 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:22.079 the world. 384 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:22.920 Yes he did. 385 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.160 When we continue, you are listening to Truth Time with 386 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.799 Doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner. Today is our teaching 387 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.559 Thursday Day, and as we do every Thursday, we bring 388 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.480 somebody to the four something for you to think about, 389 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.440 either an issue or a person. Today we are talking 390 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:42.920 about the Great Jack Johnson, the Galveston a giant, the 391 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.599 first black man to be heavyweight champion. 392 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.400 Of the world. He was all of that. 393 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.480 He and doctor in your words, he was a symbol 394 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:54.720 of dignity, respect, and triumph. Let's gone point bring that 395 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.039 back into the room. He was all of that for 396 00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:02.400 black people. Black people were living areousleep through Jack Johnson. 397 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.559 He had so many burdens on him. He had to 398 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:10.279 carry ten everything on his back, like pride, like dignity, 399 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:15.799 black respect, but also how white America felt about black people. 400 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.000 He had to carry. 401 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:20.599