WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.759 Oh he is, folks. It showed people say good money 2 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.160 to see this movie. When they go out to a theater, 3 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:16.199 they want clod sodas, hot popcorn in no monsters in 4 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:19.199 the projection booth. Everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring? 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:38.079 Got it off? 6 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:41.640 Hey, folks, well who did the projection booth? I'm your 7 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.600 host Mike White on this special episode, I am talking 8 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:47.320 with Pat Jenkowitz. He is the author of Just When 9 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:51.000 You Thought It was Safe, a Jaws companion. We actually 10 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.399 talked a little while ago when I was putting together 11 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.600 the Jaws episode and things just didn't work out for us. 12 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:01.759 But he's back and we are now talking about that 13 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:03.640 as well as some of the other books that he's 14 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:06.560 worked on, as well as his career in Hollywood just 15 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.439 a little bit. Had a great time talking with Pat, 16 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:11.439 and I hope you have a great time listening to 17 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:14.359 this interview. Enjoy. Obviously, I want to talk to you 18 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:16.840 about your Jaws book, but I would love to talk 19 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:18.920 to you a little bit more about your career and 20 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:20.319 some of your other books as well. 21 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:22.879 If you're up for it, I'd be honored. Thank you 22 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:23.400 very much. 23 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:27.319 You are a fellow Detroier, I'm calling you from Westlam, Michigan. 24 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:29.680 That's fans. How cold is it? 25 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:30.439 Oh? 26 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:32.920 It's pretty darn cold. It wants the snow, but it's 27 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:37.959 still raining right now. And snow I don't imagine. 28 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:38.200 You do. 29 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:40.719 You don't have to shovel a lot of sunshine, I imagine. 30 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.200 Thank god, thank god. I went to a Christmas tree 31 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:47.159 running the other night and I dropped sprayed with fake snow, 32 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:50.760 and I just laughed because I walked to my drawer 33 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:51.799 and melted into my head. 34 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.480 All was, well, so tell me about you. Tell me 35 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.040 about growing up in Detroit and how you did you 36 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:01.200 become a writer first and then an actor or year 37 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.480 a man of many talents. 38 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:06.480 My big brother was a writer, and following in his footsteps, 39 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:09.719 he taught my brothers and I the joys of writing. 40 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:13.719 And it was always something I did. And when in Michigan, 41 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.599 are you always doing the best creative stories and all that. 42 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:20.280 I was always a film buff and we moved to 43 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.879 California when I was a teenager, and when we moved here, 44 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:28.439 I started crashing sets because being a film buff in Michigan, 45 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.479 as you probably know, Mike, is a pretty lonely business. 46 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:34.039 I just told a friend about this the other day. 47 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.840 Everybody is like, your dad is a football player. Everybody's 48 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:41.840 wearing the car company their dad works for. On that 49 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:45.199 you remember. I remember all the Shelby Cobra kids with 50 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.199 that great snake with the wheels. Oh yeah, why were 51 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.639 Chrysler kids? So horn jackets were Chrysler and everybody else. 52 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.639 Everybody wanted whatever their father was working for. And if 53 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.199 you liked movies, it was down to Scream Theater and 54 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.960 Sir Graves Ghastly and maybe built Kennedy. It's one thing 55 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.800 when movies are made three thousand miles away, but when 56 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:09.120 we moved to California, movies were like thirty minutes away. 57 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.919 So my brother, my younger brother, Donald, and I started 58 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:15.759 crashing movie sets, you know what I mean. When when 59 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.879 we were in high school, you would go and it 60 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.080 was mostly like horror and action, and it was We 61 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.319 learned a lot of the ropes there. And when I 62 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:27.439 was in college, I wrote a commercial with my late 63 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:32.120 brother Tom, and we wrote a commercial and David Lynch 64 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.000 liked it and wanted me to read it to him 65 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:37.960 when I yeah, which is cool. I mean again, I 66 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.919 was too dumb to be a frame basically, so I 67 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.120 read it for him. He laughed and he booked me 68 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:47.400 in the commercial, and after that I got an agent, 69 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.479 and so it became beside thing. I'll be a viking 70 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:53.919 and a commercial and you keep on the copywriting and 71 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.520 the subbing and all the other stuff. But I found 72 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.800 what the commercial and then that led the movies six nine. 73 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.800 So if you can carry the girl, you're automatically a 74 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.879 bad guy. So I did a lot of thugs, henchmen, 75 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:10.560 and of course monsters. When you're a monster, you're picking 76 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.800 up stunt people and throwing them around. It's a monster. 77 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.279 Was always as a child watching Sir Graves, I was 78 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:20.560 always running for the monster anyway, So it was really cool. 79 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:23.920 They're paying you to be a monster, you know what 80 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.399 I mean to me, there's nothing more joyous to be 81 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:28.800 a world, to be a big foot or a henchman. 82 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.000 If it's a good enough henchmen, you just have a 83 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.279 lot of fun. Bad guys are always a lot of fun. 84 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.399 And commercials you come in as a viking or a 85 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:40.439 barbarian for Geico or something. You're always construction They played 86 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:44.600 a time, so you're always either construction worker barbarian dog. 87 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:51.759 There's a shock, but to me. Seattle and Detroit. We're 88 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.639 always big movie towns, you know what I mean. You 89 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.279 have the Fox Theater and the America is the Marathon 90 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.079 it's still around. 91 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.360 No, it's not. I don't think. I'm pretty sure it has. 92 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.439 The one out in the Southfield area. Yeah, I don't think. 93 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:05.759 I know. 94 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:08.360 I've seen things out there, but it's been a long time. 95 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:09.839 I don't think it's there anymore. 96 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:12.279 Did you ever go to the Marry Melody? 97 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.040 No, I remember the name, especially reading the movie listings 98 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:16.759 and seeing that. 99 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:19.560 When I was like, I think, I'm like the twelth 100 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:22.560 or thirteenth birthday, my big brother took me to the 101 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.360 Merry Melody. You can drive and he took me to 102 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.120 the Marry Melody and I saw a Sir Grave's ghastly 103 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.800 favorite the Creature in the Blackly going in three D, 104 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:34.879 and it was just it was one of those filmmaking 105 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.560 experiences where I didn't realize Jaws is my favorite American movie. 106 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.319 I didn't realize Jaws took so much from Creature until 107 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.399 I saw it, And it was just so magical to 108 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.279 have the fish swimming right by your hat. You're right, 109 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.319 so you have to touch the fish when we went. 110 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.240 I remember there was a girl from U of M 111 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.560 or MSU and her boyfriend next to us, and I 112 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.519 jumped and flinched a creature because I only see on TV. 113 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:02.920 So when you're seeing the creature in three and DS 114 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:06.480 is a completely different movie. Oh yeah, And it became 115 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.560 the greatest film watching experience in my life. This college 116 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.240 girl grabs me and pulls me to and goes, don't 117 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:14.920 be afraid, little boy. She goes, I will let the 118 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.720 monster hunt you. And we laughed. And after the movie, 119 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:21.199 my big brother goes, I hope you enjoined yourself because 120 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:25.000 her boyfriend wanted to kill you. But it was like 121 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.720 to me that that was the joy of movies. And 122 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:31.240 then when we came to California and I started to 123 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.000 see movies being made and really excited me. You know 124 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.240 what I mean. It's one thing to be three thousand 125 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.839 miles away and everything's in theory, and it's another to 126 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:41.800 actually be on the set. One of the things I 127 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.120 do is the same thing I've done ever since they 128 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.160 were shooting some Albert. The first one I ever crashed 129 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:52.519 was this craptacular Albert Pew and blade Runner knocked off 130 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:56.199 of him. Yeah, well he was What was amazing is 131 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.439 it was the first set I was ever on. I 132 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:03.560 met future Child Award winners like the Kyoto brothers were there, 133 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:07.439 and the Kyoto brothers remembered me from being a set crasher. 134 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:10.040 When I started to work on legitimate sets. They would 135 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:14.000 come up to me. One of them hasn't encyclopedic memory 136 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.839 and could remember every conversation because he was I want 137 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:19.519 to say it was Charlie. And one of them came 138 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.319 up to me and it's three o'clock in the morning 139 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.279 and I'm my high school book bag on. I was 140 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:27.000 just so excited to be there, and I think it 141 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.279 was Charlie Kyoto and he walked up to me and 142 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:32.560 he goes, you don't belong here. Yeah, well you know 143 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:34.480 what I've been teenager And I go, oh my god, 144 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:37.680 how did you know? And he goes, it's three o'clock 145 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.319 in the morning, we're all being paid shit, and you're 146 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.480 the only one smiling. 147 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:44.600 Ah, that's fantastic. 148 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:44.959 I know. 149 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:47.759 Also, you mentioned playing a lot of Vikings and goons 150 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.680 and things, and you I think you were in makeup 151 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:52.920 at least four out of five times that you were 152 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:54.839 on Voyager. How is that being under all oh? 153 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:55.160 My god. 154 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.439 Make The funny thing about that is when I was 155 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:02.759 doing Voyager, and I had a commercial agent, and so 156 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:04.519 when you see me in the movie, it was credit 157 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.600 and stuff. That was all through My magic Voyager was 158 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.199 I knew so many because I would do Fango interviews right, 159 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.920 and I knew all the makeup. I knew all the 160 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:19.959 labster start Tek, the magazine. I knew so many makeup artists, 161 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:23.399 the agypts. And they're looking for aliens. They're looking for aliens. 162 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.439 And so I wound up my brother Donald and I 163 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.399 wound up spending a week at Loan Pine. I had 164 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.919 to carry a chest in an episode. But what they 165 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.960 liked a lot of guys, the Doug Jones and the 166 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:40.799 Kevin Peter Halls, they're few and far between. Most guys 167 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.240 when the creature gigs, they do nothing but bitch and 168 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.279 mode in the chair. And I was never a bitcher 169 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:50.000 and a motor. I again, because I was in the horror, 170 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:51.960 I was in the monsters, I was in the movies, 171 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.080 and because I usually knew a thumb nerd so I 172 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.000 know if I hear your name, I can name all 173 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.360 your credits. These guys loved having me in the chair. 174 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.399 Because I would ask them. There wasn't an interview or anything. 175 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.840 Somebody think Bart Mixon would be doing your makeup for 176 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.480 four hours and you're asking Barn about RoboCop. And I 177 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:13.679 met and made friends with Bart when it was a 178 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:17.960 teenage set crasher on some terrible zombie movie. And he 179 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:22.720 was cool. And so when I was doing Voyager or something, 180 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.480 I knew almost the entire effects. Guys, wow and to me, 181 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.000 and they put me up in loan Pine. In fact, 182 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.759 just a great story. So they put me up in 183 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.600 loan Pine and it was some crazy two part Voyager. 184 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:40.240 This is where they shot Dunat, Did they shot Stage Coach, 185 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.440 iron Man? All these movies were shot there. So what 186 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.440 happens is I'm in loan Pine and the stunt tornader 187 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:49.919 likes me, and when we start talking and he's telling 188 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.960 funny stories and he knows I know all the stuff 189 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:55.679 he worked on. And so that night when you're in 190 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:59.039 loan pine's a tiny little town. And what happens is 191 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:03.519 the best hotel rooms are named after the biggest stars. 192 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.639 You'll have the John Wayne Sweet all this yell that 193 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.759 I think at whatever hotel, Donald and I had Lash LaRue, 194 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.039 the lash he's like a b movie star. So at 195 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.720 the smaller rooms, I had Lash LaRue and Donald was 196 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.039 next door on Jebby Hayes. But the stunt coinator on 197 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:25.399 Voyager was a guy named Dennis Madelone. And Dennis had 198 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.279 been the stunt double for William cant on The Greatest 199 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:32.759 American Hero, and he was telling me stories about that. 200 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.120 And every time I'd run into Dennis, he kept going, 201 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:38.720 you need to do a book on the Greatest American Hero. 202 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:42.840 And I thought, he's right, but you engage interest with 203 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:46.320 your publishers, and like did they wanted to Buck Rogers 204 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.639 book first, and then I did one of the Hunk 205 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:53.360 and Dennis Dennis. Every time the Hunk threw somebody in 206 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.080 every third episode, it's Dennis, you know. And they have 207 00:10:57.639 --> 00:10:59.919 Dennis as well, like kind of a biker I all 208 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.120 but long hair, so then you usually have Dennis's hair 209 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:06.600 canned up to play a soldier or whateverwhere else. So 210 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.600 I kept seen like Dunnet and je Lebelle over and over, 211 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.639 and I thought when I started doing these books, I thought, 212 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.440 we got to hear their stories. I did two pages 213 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.039 on Donnis for the whole Companion, and then when I 214 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.320 did Greatest American Hero with donnis Man. He's like one 215 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.120 of the best connected stunt men you'll ever meet, Can 216 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:28.279 you everybody. 217 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.120 I have your Greatest American Hero book? And I didn't realize, like, 218 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:35.840 for whatever reason, I was just like, oh, yeah, I 219 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:38.399 know this author, I know this name, but I didn't 220 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.039 realize that or so aired you're jealous companion that I 221 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.519 have the Hulk book like on my wish list, to 222 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:46.799 the Buck Rogers book on my wish list. So it's just, oh, 223 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.159 this guy's something. How did the Jones book come about? 224 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:54.240 Draws is my favorite American movie and it's literally I 225 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:56.480 found this out when I was doing my due diligence 226 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:00.039 before I did the book. I found it's like he 227 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:04.279 all as Jurassic Pomp, Star Wars, Top Gun and is 228 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.600 one of the nine most often run movies on Basic Cable. 229 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:11.759 When Jaws was coming up, I started it before I 230 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.440 did it, and I was going to go with it. 231 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.159 There was a bad publisher and he violated all the 232 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:21.159 terms of the contract that he sent me, and I 233 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.159 just thought, hold with that. I'm not going to write 234 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:25.240 a book for someone who's trying to screw me, and 235 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.879 I just threw it in a drawer. And then Martha's 236 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.200 Vineyard was doing something called Jaws first, and my brother Donald, 237 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:36.919 Donald's kind of my Jiminy Cricket. So my brother Donald 238 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.039 comes to me and says, hey, you ought to think 239 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.080 about doing this thing on Martha's Vineyard and the Jaws 240 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:47.279 will get broken my heart because this guy had violated 241 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.360 everything he was. He was just a bad guy, and 242 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.200 his publishing companies out of business, and rightfully, I left 243 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.879 a bad taste in my mouth. And I told Donald 244 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.200 I'm not going to go to Martha's Vineyard less they advertised, 245 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:05.919 and when they added Benchley in somebody else, I thought, 246 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.679 oh my god, I'd better go. This is the last 247 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.320 round up for a lot of these guys. And I'd 248 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.360 waited too long. What I did is I screwed up. 249 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.600 I went it too long, and the Plaine ticket was 250 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.559 like a thousand bucks, you know, And I thought, I 251 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:23.320 guess I'm not going, and my brother Donald goes, I'll 252 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.759 get a series of driveaways, and so like the Hitcher, 253 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.440 but you to drive someone's car halfway across country, then 254 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.240 you pick up someone else's car from there. I think 255 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.559 we drove the last step from Chicago to New York. 256 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:42.320 I drove with Chicago Wolves. I was a sportsman, the 257 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.320 one that used to sell football games, because that was 258 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.399 the only place where I could lay in the back 259 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.000 for all the camera clip it. It was the only 260 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:55.000 van I had one couldn't actually sleep on my back 261 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.960 and send it hunched over like's. It was a satellite trunks. 262 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.960 So I got there, I grabbed a Lucky I hit 263 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.120 in New York, I hit Times Square. It's radclock in 264 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:08.120 the morning. I got out a Lucky Town. There was 265 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:12.759 a Gambler's bus, Chinatown Gambler's bus, and I took in 266 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.399 at the woods Hole and jumped the ferry over. And 267 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.960 then what I didn't realize is that the place was 268 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.440 all booked up and it's prohibitally expensively bring a car. 269 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.480 And what happened is all that was left. Everybody booked them, 270 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:31.159 all the Joss fanatics from across the country, including a 271 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.480 family from Michigan. I remember running into the painted the Jaws, 272 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.879 shoe water Skier and Shark on the side of their 273 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.759 van for the job all the way on and because 274 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:45.320 everything was booked up, I was staying at the Kent Crowd, 275 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.399 which is probably the cheapest thing on the island and 276 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.559 I'd been trying my brother packed at the intent and 277 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.080 he forgot the ten stakes. So when we get there, 278 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.080 I'm trying to assemble the tent in the pouring rain, 279 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:58.440 and I didn't have the thing in it, and he 280 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:00.559 jumped like, we need to move in front there in 281 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.879 case so nobody rides us over. I didn't realize our 282 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.399 heads were lying right in the tread of the next 283 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.559 area campground where he picked up spots. And it gets better, Mike. 284 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.639 It was skunk season, so they're had a great shower. 285 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.720 But I remember using my cell phone and show you'd 286 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.279 see what looked like black and white cats walking towards you, 287 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.759 and they were all skunks, like an army of skunks. 288 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.440 And the great thing is what happened is two guys 289 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.279 from Boston who were Giant Jaws fanatics. Their names are 290 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:35.759 in the book mark I think Scott Rummel and somebody else. 291 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.840 They were like, when we saw that I was getting interviews, 292 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.200 they saw the Universal took care of me on the 293 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.679 island to make sure I get all my interviews. They're like, 294 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:47.320 can we drive you? And it's s John because otherwise 295 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.480 on the tram or whateverlse because they'd been there many times. 296 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.840 They showed me the Jaws tour. There's a reason that's 297 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:56.919 not in the book. I mentioned it, but I don't 298 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.240 showed because it was three o'clock in the morning and 299 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.440 I didn't want the to think it was a serial killer. 300 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.399 But the house next to the house from the original 301 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.440 film had this brass plaque on the side of the 302 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.240 house you can see in the original Jaws and it 303 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.960 says Jaws shot here. And I mean, it was just 304 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.360 so exciting because I'd never been to Martha's Vineyard before, 305 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.159 but I knew my way around because of the movie. 306 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.120 And it's one of those Touchstowe movies for me that 307 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.919 I've seen it and loved it, and it was just 308 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.120 I could recognize. And for the Jaws Fest, which is 309 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:34.480 the event Universal sponsored, MCA had all the stores put 310 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.879 up all the signs from the first two movies and 311 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:39.679 everywhere you're going, and we watched the movie at the 312 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:41.840 movie theater where they used to screen the dailies, and 313 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.120 it was next to see guys I interviewed every when 314 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:48.879 I could down on the West Coast, Roy Arbogast, Joe Alves, 315 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.879 who busted out the original storyboards. Roy Albert Gast busted 316 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.000 out the tabletop shot that they shopped the original movie. 317 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.360 That sold them on the original movie. And when I 318 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.679 got Golli, it was Elves God leaving the arbagaster my 319 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.920 first three interviews, and the three of them were so 320 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.839 great and so knowledgeable and so kind. It paved the way, 321 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:14.200 and thank God. The weird thing is I don't get 322 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:21.440 starstruck about and they signed me Natalie Portman or Christine 323 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.240 Vale or something like that, who chairs their next people the 324 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.799 interesting stories. But when Chrissy from Jaws agreed to an interview, 325 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.960 it was like many royalty from me, you know what 326 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:33.680 I mean. God rest her soul. We just lost a 327 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.039 few months ago. But it was so exciting to hear 328 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.640 her stories. And it's just to me Bill Butler giving 329 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:45.599 me a long afternoon and marrying a delay, and he 330 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:49.920 just Bill Butler talking to you about Jaws and Godfather 331 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:54.160 and Rocky and Greece. My god, he lived to a 332 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.440 hundred What really made me happy? He lived to one 333 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.400 hundred and two. And when he passed, Variety quoted book 334 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.119 and his obituary. That to me, because I'm thinking I 335 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.599 asked him every question, every conceivable question of Jaws that 336 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.319 could be asked. I asked, but he's been in documentaries 337 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:13.680 and stuff. But when you got him talking and he 338 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.880 really dug deep, great great stories. 339 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.680 I love the way that you put the book together, 340 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.640 this idea of the list of these things, rather than 341 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.519 it just being straight ahead chapter one, chapter two is no, 342 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:29.160 here's all of these kind of smaller chapters, the smaller 343 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.160 pieces that all add up to that marvelous film. 344 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.359 What really excited me about is we're going to talk 345 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.079 about Jaws and the Jaws franchise. You've got to talk 346 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.960 about the elements that work. And I remember some critic 347 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.960 attacked by book and they go, who cares about all 348 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.440 the victims of the original Shark? Who cares what Missus 349 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.599 Kentner has a saying? And I thought, you don't get it, 350 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.680 Missus Kittener, Alex Jenner. They're pawning the experience, you know 351 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.960 what I mean mean all the little moments. And because 352 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.440 I came from an Ardit background, I like sideboss. I 353 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.519 like the interesting. I want to know what Missus Kittener 354 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.799 is thinking. I want to know what Alex Kittener is thinking. 355 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.880 I want to hear from Teddy Grossman, everybody in Jaws 356 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.559 has a store, and it's such a big franchise. What 357 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.160 shocked me is there's Jaws two and Jaws the Revenge books, 358 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.720 out Bound Chunks and all the stories that I uncovered 359 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.440 in my book. They went there and I thought, wow, 360 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.519 John Hancock talked to me, the original Jaws two director. 361 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.680 And the great thing about that is when I got 362 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.400 John and his wonderful wife who's now gone now and 363 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.440 she got completely cheated. She's the one who came over 364 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.359 the water scale. And if you look at the original 365 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:47.079 nineteen eight Jaws two paperbacks by Hank Cyles, they mentioned 366 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:51.039 her by name. And the great thing about her is 367 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:54.480 when John and Hancock called me, I got her in 368 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.880 there as well. And because the second poud for the 369 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.640 incredible Hunk, I doubled because when am I going to 370 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.440 talk to her again, I got her telling the amazing 371 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.440 Josh Hues store during her amazing Joss two stories. She 372 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.960 told me the incredible stories about the Hullck where they 373 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:16.200 basically blackballed the couple after he got replaced on Joss two. 374 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.440 Universal MCA was actively trying to blackball them and cancel them. 375 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.240 And what happened is Kenneth Johnson the creator of the 376 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.480 Hog TV series. He's a champion of the underdogs and 377 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.960 he hired her immediately for the incredible haulk Returns the 378 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.200 second pilot and Dorothy Tristan's her name, by the way, 379 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.279 I just realized they haven't been saying her name. Yeah, 380 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.200 So Northy was an actress and a runner and the 381 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.519 water Skier, which they made the whole campaign for Josh two. 382 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.680 That was the whole campaign and she got no krintin 383 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.519 on the She gets credited on the gip her back, 384 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.640 but they denied her all credit on the movie and 385 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:58.519 that was that's not right. And her draft of Josh 386 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:02.000 two and the one Handhot was doing. It's more interesting. 387 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.480 When they fired the Hancocks, they just sit. Shinberg just 388 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:09.359 had them do a beat for beating Jaws two. Yeah 389 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.240 it's Jaws. I mean if you look at jos Hugh 390 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.519 next to Jaws. They keep all in the scare. And 391 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:18.480 I'm not gonna blame Dolly be HEA's run in the 392 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.960 last minute. Instead of the kids karate chopping the fences, 393 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.559 you have this the kid with the CB radio, all 394 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.519 this all this stuff without and he finds the burned woman. 395 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.759 Jean Culture's burned body at the exact moment Ben Gardner's 396 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.759 had in the original film, and it just it's beneath 397 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.640 Jaws two to I like the stories, but it was 398 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.440 beneath and I was annoyed by the Joss wo and 399 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.839 four books because they literally took every story from my 400 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.240 book and I don't think one of them got Hancock 401 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.640