WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.879 Joining us right now from the Boston Globe is Karen 2 00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:05.160 Miller talking about the fact that people just don't want 3 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:06.240 to be teachers anymore. 4 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.439 And this is it bums me out, Kara, thank you. 5 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:11.679 For joining us, Thanks for having me. 6 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:16.199 Yeah, great peace. By the way, in the Globe, disturbing 7 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.839 numbers to me. My sister was a special ed teacher 8 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.960 for thirty five years. I had two cousins that were 9 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:28.480 both educators at one point in time. It was a 10 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:33.399 position of status certainly. You know, I come from a 11 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:35.759 small town of Maine where teachers were respected. 12 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:38.759 I'm not gonna say feared. 13 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.000 Even though I did have a second grade teacher that 14 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.240 still brought out the belt, which is kind of crazy 15 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:44.719 when you think of it, just goes to show how 16 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:49.840 old I am. But nonetheless, it's a real problem. And 17 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.399 I have kids in school, and I live in a 18 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:55.000 great community that and you talk about that too in 19 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.159 your piece where you know, communities that have the taxable income, 20 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.240 you know, can put forth qual any educational systems. 21 00:01:01.399 --> 00:01:03.320 But even then, Kara, it's hard. 22 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.400 I mean, if you're sitting here, what would you tell 23 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:09.400 how do you convince somebody to be a teacher? 24 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:13.920 Now, I mean as you say, I think it's hard. 25 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:16.879 I mean, you know, I start the piece a little 26 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.079 bit like this, but but I'll sort of like go 27 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:22.480 back and tell this little story. I didn't include the 28 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.159 personal part of it. But in the nineteen sixties, my 29 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.000 mom graduated from college and she became a teacher. And 30 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.879 one of the things that was true, and this kind 31 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:35.200 of ties into this is the you know, kernel of 32 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:37.879 where we are today. But one of the things that 33 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.040 was true in the nineteen sixties is that if you 34 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.079 were a woman who was educated and you wanted to work, 35 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.040 there were very many jobs that were available to you. 36 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.959 So educated women generally went into three buckets of jobs. 37 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.680 One was clerical work, one was nursing, and one was teaching. 38 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:01.079 When you looked at teaching, compared to other white collar 39 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.879 jobs that women did, teachers made a fifteen percent pay premium. 40 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:08.479 So like, of the choice is available to you, a 41 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:10.719 pretty good choice. So and I think a lot of 42 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.240 people when they think, not you know, not everybody, but 43 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:15.280 a lot of people when they think back to the 44 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:18.759 teacher they had who like you know, changed their life, 45 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.199 was like a great chemistry teacher or whatever it was 46 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:27.479 a woman. But over time, that pay bump that women 47 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.719 got for being teachers. That has collapsed. So women now 48 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.919 get a twenty one percent paid penalty for being a 49 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:39.080 teacher compared to some other college compared to other college 50 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:42.520 educated women. And then men have a thirty six percent 51 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:45.879 pay penalty compared to other college educated men, because college 52 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.080 educated men tend to make more than college educated women. 53 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:52.400 So to like come back to your question of how 54 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.240 you convinced somebody to be a teacher, it's pretty hard 55 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.520 because when you're twenty years old and you're sitting around 56 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.360 in college thinking what do I want to do? You 57 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.639 generally do not want to make twenty or thirty percent 58 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:04.800 less than everybody else. 59 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.439 You know, Well you could, that's right, I mean, that's it, 60 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:10.400 but you could take a little bit of a hit 61 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:14.479 because the argument always was you get the summers off, 62 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.520 you know. And I remember my teachers, you know, I 63 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:20.400 still like. You know, one I still talk to today 64 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:22.599 was my baseball coach. I talked to him all the time. 65 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.479 You know, he would have the summer off and they 66 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:27.919 would teach driver's ed or you know, they'd work at 67 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.599 a summer camp. And my mother in law was a 68 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.759 teacher for years and in the summer. She was the 69 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:35.759 director of a girl summer camp make a little extra money. 70 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.960 So it was a terrific lifestyle. But when you're talking about, 71 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:43.280 for example, in your article Arlington with a bachelor's degree 72 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:48.520 and a master's degree, y and a master's degree, Yeah, 73 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.439 you make fifty nine grand, How the hell can you 74 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:53.080 live on that? 75 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:53.680 You can't? 76 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.360 I mean, that was twenty twenty three. But I think 77 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.879 a few things are her crew about teaching. One is 78 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:02.800 that you're say, that's a lot less than the average 79 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:05.520 person in Arlington is making. So you're probably not living 80 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.360 in Arlington, so you're probably having to like fight traffic 81 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.960 and get up even earlier than you normally would would 82 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:15.080 get up. But the other thing that teaching does is 83 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.839 that the pay bumps. So let's say you become like 84 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.480 a history teacher in Arlington. Well, you know, when you're 85 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.360 a first year history teacher, your life is probably not 86 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:28.040 that different from somebody who's in their fifteenth year of 87 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:30.959 teaching history at Arlington. You're probably teaching four or five 88 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.399 classes a day, you're prepping, you're you know, correcting papers, 89 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.600 whatever you're doing. But the person who's fifteen years in 90 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.120 is making a lot more than you probably you know, 91 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.720 well over one hundred thousand dollars a year. And so 92 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.680 one of the things about the pay structure is the 93 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.639 pay bumps that you get for being a teacher comes 94 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.240 well into your teaching career. And again, a lot of 95 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.199 like twenty five year olds don't want to be told like, well, 96 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.439 you're not gonna you're gonna be really poor are now, 97 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.959 But don't worry when you're thirty seven you'll make money. 98 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.480 Not when they're friends, I have, you know, a different 99 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:09.480 reality that they're that they're looking at. 100 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:13.920 Well, one of the things that has happened in Sebruary, 101 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:16.839 I won't pour It's not like I'm calling him out. 102 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.079 I'm actually paying him a compliment. But my kids have 103 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:24.720 a teacher who is a retired attorney. So I see 104 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:27.519 him every day at car pickup, you know, I think, 105 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.839 I mean, he must be late fifties, early sixties, and 106 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.600 he you know, as successful lawyer. I'm sure is comfortable 107 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.519 and likes to teach. That's a gift, I mean, that 108 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:45.680 is a gift for our school system right there, you know. So, yeah, 109 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:49.040 you know, is there a way and thinking outside the 110 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:53.160 box that you can bring in hybrid teachers can you 111 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:59.120 bring in a professional, a scientist to come in and 112 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:04.920 teach one horse a week. Of these the types of 113 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:07.240 things you're going to have to look at. Because I've 114 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:10.240 taught at Emerson, I've gone over and I've enjoyed it. Yeah, 115 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:12.839 after working in the business for thirty five years or whatever, 116 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:14.720 you go over and you know, you get you get 117 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.000 it when you teach, you definitely get Ah, it's the 118 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:18.680 fountain of youth. 119 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:21.000 You know, there's no doubt, there's no doubt. 120 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:23.199 Is there a way to do that where somebody you 121 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.040 bring in some hybrid situations? 122 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.680 I do think that there are, as you say, some 123 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.279 alternate paths in. You know, like one of my favorite 124 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:39.279 English teachers I think I was in seventh grade, Missus Davis. 125 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.920 She was basically retired. She was like teaching part time, 126 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.160 but she was so amazing that, you know, teaching part 127 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:50.680 time was great. I mean anything she could offer was 128 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:54.720 was great. But I do think that it is such 129 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.959 a large workforce, right You're talking not a few people, 130 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:03.759 You're talking millions of people. And I also think that 131 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.360 some of those, you know, the retired attorney, that sort 132 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.000 of thing. I think that's also more likely to happen 133 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:15.040 in the more affluent communities, you know, where a mom 134 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.160 doesn't have to work, but she maybe does have a 135 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:20.920 background in science or math, and so she does something 136 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:26.040 two or three days a week. I think the really 137 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.519 where the rubber really meets the road, and I think 138 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.920 it's really already starting to happen. And when you think 139 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.439 about like teacher shortages, which I think are coming, is 140 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:42.720 that in poorer communities, the ability to daff up with 141 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:44.959 those you know, with those kinds of people that we're 142 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:48.439 talking about, it's it doesn't really exist. And so when 143 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.079 you're talking about things like math and science, where people 144 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.279 make much more money with a science background or a 145 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:58.439 math background or computer science background, when they're not in teaching. 146 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:03.240 I had teachers tell me the ability in poorer communities 147 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.680 to get good math or good science or good computer 148 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:11.759 science teachers, they're almost non existent. And I think that's 149 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:12.680 it's going to get tougher. 150 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:14.959 You also made a very good point in your article, 151 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:18.800 and my kids have done it. You mentioned the tutoring 152 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:23.040 services that are available, and it costs money, you know, 153 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.600 I mean it's just in my too. You know, my 154 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.800 kids needed them, but they got they definitely became better 155 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.519 at math and science because some of these private tutoring 156 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.159 services were people like me would go and you'd pay 157 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:38.480 an hour for you know, some some college kid or 158 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.120 some math guru whatever to sit there with your your 159 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:42.639 kid on a Sunday afternoon. 160 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.799 And that's a luxury, yes, And I think one of 161 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.440 the saddest things is that there's great research out of 162 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.720 BU and Harvard that that chronicles like the rise of 163 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.919 Math Museum and Kuman in these these different places that 164 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:00.799 have just exploded over the past twenty or so years, 165 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.799 mostly in wealthy areas, right, And so what you see is, 166 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:08.879 you know, if wealthy parents realize that there's a deficit 167 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.279 in their school like that you know that CS is 168 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:14.639 not being taught, that math is not being taught. But 169 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.399 they know that to be successful or to have certain 170 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.399 kinds of jobs, which are often very lucrative jobs, you 171 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:23.679 really need a very solid math background. They go out 172 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:26.720 and buy it, right, And we know not everybody is 173 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.879 going to do that because it's just like not available 174 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.840 to everybody. And so I pointed out in the piece 175 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.279 you In December, I believe there was a recent round 176 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:40.919 of you know, international math scores released, and not only 177 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.799 were our math scores bad, which is probably not super surprising, 178 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.440 but the gap between our top ten percent and our 179 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.840 bottom ten percent is one of the biggest in the world. 180 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:53.240 There's maybe three countries in the world or something that 181 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.759 have a bigger gap. I mean, we are just we're like, 182 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.039 you know, right right right at the bottom there. 183 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.759 Well, we're going to get you to talk about that 184 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.200 where we are as a country when it comes to 185 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:08.080 education and how I think it in the next fifty 186 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.000 to one hundred years. It could change the power of 187 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.480 balance in the world. Karaen Miller is our guests Boston Globe. 188 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:17.399 The pipelines are drawing up. White teachers salaries are catastrophic 189 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:19.679 for the profession. I got a ton more to talk 190 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:23.759 about with Karen right after this in wbz's Nightside. Now 191 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.679 back to Dan Ray live from the Window World night 192 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.720 Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. White people don't want 193 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.919 to be teachers anymore. Karen Miller, Boston Globe, joining us 194 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.080 here on wbz's Nightside. Gary Tangling in for Dan. Right, 195 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:38.519 So let's get to it here. I'm worried about the 196 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:42.200 future of the country when you talk about how we're 197 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:48.000 dropping down in these areas. When do we start to 198 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:53.960 see it affect our status internationally as a country, as 199 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:54.799 a world power. 200 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:00.600 You know, it's a good question. It's a really have questions. 201 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.600 I mean, just on the first part of like when 202 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.759 do we see teacher shortages? I asked a bunch of 203 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:09.279 experts this, and I think a lot of people think 204 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.159 in the next five to ten years this is really 205 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:17.240 going to start to manifest itself in very unpleasant ways. 206 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.000 I'll just give you one statistic, which is in just 207 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.559 the last decade, we've seen about a twenty five percent 208 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:30.000 decline in the new teacher supply in a decade, right 209 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.399 when people don't want to be something. I mean, it's 210 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:35.240 like the inverse of you know, if you go back 211 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.600 to nineteen eighty there were not very many computer science majors, 212 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.639 but people respond pretty quickly to incentives, so by two thousand, 213 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:45.360 there were a lot of computer science majors, right, And 214 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.600 this is this is like the you know, inverse story 215 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.480 of that. You know, how does it affect our country? 216 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:57.399 I think it's Here's why that's a hard question to answer. 217 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.879 If you go back to what we were talking about before, 218 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.240 which is like that the people at the top have 219 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.039 a lot of money, they understand that, you know, learning 220 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.600 math and science and all sorts of things are very important. 221 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.759 And whether it's through private school or it's through tutoring 222 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.759 or whatever, they're going to get their kids in education rights. 223 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:17.600 That's important to them and they're going to do it, 224 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.919 and they have the money to make it happen. And 225 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.120 so the part of the question is like what do 226 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:25.399 you need for a successful country? I mean, if all 227 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.879 you need is a few people who have all the 228 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.039 money and power and start the companies and the other 229 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:35.399 people are kind of, you know, sort of eking out 230 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:37.679 a living or doing what they can, then we might 231 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.759 be able to have a fine country, like in aggregate 232 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:44.879 if we're talking GDP. But it doesn't mean that there 233 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.120 might be a lot of people who are left behind 234 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.960 because they just never got the education that they deserved. 235 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:53.840 Well, then, and I don't want to get off topic here, 236 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:57.320 but what the hell it's a four hour show. Then 237 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.840 you get into work ethic, and this is a I've done. 238 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:03.279 I've done hours on this as well. 239 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.279 Where you have a family that has the means to 240 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.879 send their son or daughter to private school, and they're 241 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.320 set up in certain situations where they didn't have to 242 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.600 work their way from the ground up. So now it 243 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:20.360 comes to work ethic. It comes to are you willing 244 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.759 to work six days a week? Are you willing to 245 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.759 work twelve hours a day? And I hear things from 246 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.200 the students at Emerson and various young people that I've 247 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.639 talked to that, you know, I don't want to work 248 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:32.960 six days a week like my dad did, or I 249 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.279 don't want to work twelve hours a day like my mom. 250 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.399 Like my wife works twelve hours a day. My wife 251 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.799 is a corporate executive. Okay, she is. She kicks ass. 252 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:42.960 She works twelve hours a day. That's what she does. 253 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.879 So it's not just men or women, you know, I 254 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:52.679 want to be clear on that. But you know, my 255 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.879 kids generation the idea of working twelve hours a day, 256 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.600 or the idea of having two jobs, or the idea 257 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:04.759 of over time or getting ahead. For some they talk 258 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.799 about the quality of life. And what I want to 259 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:11.879 say to them is, listen, knucklehead, the quality of life 260 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.559 is because you've been able to put money in your pocket. 261 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.639 And I hate to make it that simple, but there's 262 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.000 a lot of truth in that because a lot of 263 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.320 these kids have lived very good, comfortable childhoods and they 264 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.519 need to understand that if you're going to maintain that, 265 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:32.200 you got to kind of be a workaholic. 266 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.000 You do, you just do. And I don't see the 267 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.039 work ethic. That's what I don't see. 268 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.080 I mean, And do you think that that and you 269 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:47.000 think that that is also like manifest itself in schools? 270 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:47.840 I do. 271 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.679 I mean, because now one of the things that drives 272 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:53.600 me crazy. And believe me, I'm not gonna call it. 273 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.519 My school system where I live. It's awesome. I've had 274 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.240 three kids go through it. It's terrific. I support it, 275 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:03.919 and this is but this is one of my beats. 276 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.320 You get to retake a test. What'd you get on 277 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.879 the math exam? I got an eighty? Well, I got 278 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:11.679 a chance to book move it up to an eighty five. 279 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.759 I'm like, well, excuse me, come again. What you get 280 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:21.000 to retake the test? That's a problem. I don't get it. 281 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.159 Yeah, yeah, it's it's such an interesting thing. I mean, 282 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:29.080 I think there's probably even amongst people who are affluent, 283 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.639 I think there's probably a bifurcation because I think that, 284 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.960 you know, another piece I wrote a few months ago 285 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:42.480 was about the considerable increase in people going to private 286 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:47.039 school in Newton, Brookline and Cambridge. And I think some 287 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:52.120 of that, you know, you've seen like these debates, sometimes 288 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.919 very bitter debates about should we offer like advanced math 289 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.799 in these schools, because then you have then you're pointing 290 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.320 out sort of who's in advanced math and who isn't 291 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.559 right that kind of highlights these differences. And I think 292 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:11.159 in part, you do have a group of people who 293 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.519 are voting with their feet and saying, well, I want 294 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.159 my kid to be in a very competitive situation, like 295 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:21.399 I don't want them to be in a situation where 296 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.200 the advanced classes are taken away and people are in 297 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:26.240 you know what I mean, and people are all together. 298 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.720 So while I do take your point that I do, 299 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.840 I definitely think you've got a surgeon people saying I 300 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:36.080 want work life balance. And in fact, one of the 301 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.240 teachers and the piece says to me, you know, teaching 302 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.679 is not something you can do two days a week 303 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:42.320 from home. 304 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.120 Oh no, no, no, it's hard, right. Teaching is hard. 305 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:47.159 It's hard, right, and you have to show up early 306 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.720 in the morning and night, the long lunch. 307 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.279 And in some of them now, I mean even in 308 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.360 my town, when I. 309 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:55.279 Hear that they have to buy supplies, or if they 310 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.559 want to do something special when my taxes, I go, 311 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.559 We'll wait a minute. Or they'll have to say, you know, 312 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.559 can you contribute? You know, I have to buy some 313 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.920 market I got to buy this or that. I'm like, yeah, 314 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.519 that's crazy to me. Oh, teachers, believe me. 315 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:08.160 It's hard. 316 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:13.559 To be a great teacher is hard to do. It's hard, 317 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.599 and I applaud the people that do it. I really do. 318 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.480 But I interrupted you. I'm sorry you were on a roll. 319 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:20.119 What will you say? 320 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:22.799 I go, no, no, Well, I mean I think that 321 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.599 there's I agree with you to some degree that I 322 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.039 do think there's like this increased focus on work life balance. 323 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.640 But I also think that there are quite a few 324 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:39.000 people who are in these competitive jobs who are who 325 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:43.319 are very insistent, maybe you could argue to insistent, like 326 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.839 over schedule their kids, but are very clear on that 327 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:50.000 they want their kids to be you know, if it 328 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:52.319 takes like extra math classes, they want them to be 329 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.720 stars in math, if it takes extra whatever, you know 330 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.720 what I mean. They want them to be stars in sports. 331 00:17:57.799 --> 00:17:59.480 So I think you've got like a little bit of 332 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.480 a buyer, right, You've got the You've got like the 333 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.079 hard driver type of people. And then and then I 334 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.880 hear what you're saying. And I actually experienced that in 335 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.920 school something too, where you could do some extra credit 336 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.720 to make up for the fact that you didn't do X, 337 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.359 Y or Z, which is you know, I mean, I 338 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.960 think it's a policy one could argue about, for sure. 339 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:24.200 Yeah, And I think I think the parents want the 340 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:27.599 kids to do it, but you have to motivate the 341 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.240 kid to do it like that's and you also have 342 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.119 to be able to as I have two young people, 343 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.599 one in college, one now leaving the next where I 344 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.119 said to my you know, we got to just back off. 345 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.759 You know, they got training reels are gone. Man, you 346 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.960 know you got And my eldest is busting her She 347 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.000 is working her tail off, she's working a couple jobs. 348 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.039 She's really focused. She's and we haven't had to give 349 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.160 that speech. We're very fortunate, very locked in. But back 350 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.279 to the private school thing. 351 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:58.079 I think. 352 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:07.079 I was anti private school until my son went okay, 353 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.119 because I mean I listen. I was raised by a 354 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.759 nurse and a mill worker. We had one used car. 355 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.599 The house was nine hundred square feet in Rumford, Maine. 356 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.000 Great life, middle class, main no problem, but you know, 357 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.359 private school forget it. You know, paid for half my college, 358 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:29.960 but spending you that amount of money to send somebody 359 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.079 to a non college was very foreign to me. 360 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:34.880 So my son did a prep year. It was the 361 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:35.839 best thing he ever did. 362 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:39.200 And I do see the value if you have the means, 363 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:41.359 And I've talked to parents about this. I've talked to 364 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:43.119 parents who have one kid in public school one kid 365 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:45.559 in private school, and the parent will say, well, the 366 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.720 kid in private school needs needs the attention because if 367 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:51.240 you go to a private school, you get twelve kids 368 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:57.559 at the class, and the teachers make more money and 369 00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:59.799 so therefore you're probably going to get a better quality 370 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:01.599 with t teacher and the teacher only has to teach 371 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:03.960 twelve kids so as opposed to thirty five. 372 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:05.119 Because I get it. 373 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.759 When May comes around and I could see the teachers 374 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.200 at my kids' school, they got thirty five kids every 375 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.480 period and May comes, they're done, and I understand it. Yeah, 376 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.640 if I get private school now, I never did before, 377 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:20.720 but I get it. But it's expensive as hell, I 378 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:22.319 mean right, not everybody can do it. 379 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:28.359 Yes, And you know, I did a piece of the 380 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.599 Globe magazine several months ago on gifting talented programs and 381 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.839 why we don't have them in Massachusetts so much. And 382 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.400 one of the interesting things that came out of that 383 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.079 was I talked to all these students who are way 384 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.319 ahead in school, you know, like they're a year ahead, 385 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:44.960 two years ahead in math. I mean some of these 386 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:47.279 kids were only like fourth fifth grade, and I was 387 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:52.440 talking to their parents. Many people wanted to go to 388 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.480 private school, but it was impossible. I mean, they were 389 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.559 an entire family living in a little apartment. They checked 390 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.359 on how much which the private school was. It was 391 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.880 like thirty two thousand dollars. It just couldn't it couldn't happen. 392 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.440 And so I think, I mean, you know, this kind 393 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.759 of fits in with a lot of the divergence we've 394 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:13.880 seen in like terms of the haves and the have not. 395 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:17.160 But I think I think what we really don't want 396 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:23.240 is a situation in which really great education is available 397 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.400 to rich people. 398 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.599 Oh, you're right, and right now, that's where we're. 399 00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.319 Headed're available to everybody else. 400 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:31.839 That's where we're headed. But here's the other We're definitely 401 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.160