WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.279 Hold on, you got to stop interrupting, Okay, let him finish. 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:03.560 Size. 3 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.200 So the tragedy that's been inflicted on Gaza is orders 4 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:10.160 of magnitudes greater than October seventh, even if you had 5 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.599 the right Let's say somebody broke onto your property and 6 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:15.599 killed some of your family members, and you want to 7 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:17.839 go kill this guy. If he goes back to his 8 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:20.879 apartment building, and you know that there's women and children 9 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:22.679 in that apartment building, and so your move is to 10 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.480 blow up the building, what you would be charged with 11 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:30.800 is murder in the first degree, cold blooded, premeditated, intentional murder. 12 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:32.880 Now you could sit there and tell the judge, I 13 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:35.240 didn't want to kill all those people. Why would I 14 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:37.000 want to kill all of those people. I just had 15 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.079 to kill that one guy. But that's that's not what counts. 16 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.280 You did it intentionally. You dropped a bomb knowing that 17 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:45.399 there were women and children in that building. That is 18 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:48.840 intentionally murdering innocent people. And you, if you're going to 19 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.359 advocate for this war, so why can't you just say yes, 20 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:53.439 that price is acceptable, because then we could have a 21 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.159 real conversation about why the other side is going to 22 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:57.119 look at you like a monster. 23 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.320 Dave Smith, what a week, brother. 24 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.479 So Dave goes on Rogan does back to back episodes, 25 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:08.000 which is fairly rare. Apparently he got Douglas Murray to 26 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.640 take on the debate, and he did so yesterday, and 27 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.680 the internet is quite on fire as a consequence of it. 28 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.439 And I'll tell you this, the only thing that you 29 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:20.799 really take away from this is that there is only 30 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.840 one group of people left that actually sides with the 31 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.159 Douglas Murray's of the world, and that is the Ryder 32 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.640 die Zionist crowd, the israel First crowd. 33 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:32.000 And look, that's fine. 34 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:35.359 Of course, there's going to be a constituency that agrees 35 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:38.120 with anybody on any side of a debate. But if 36 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.439 you actually watch that debate impartially, which I'm not capable of, 37 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.319 but I know based off of the comments, there's a 38 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:45.799 ton of impartial people. There's a ton of fans of 39 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:49.560 Douglas Murray that are like, Jesus Christ, is Dude's insufferable? 40 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.719 Like how could you possibly go? All right, so let 41 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.840 me start square one. Douglas Murray opens up and I'm 42 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:02.599 not exaggerating. I am not exaggerating one iota. He spends 43 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.319 the first forty five minutes of this debate, lecturing Joe 44 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:08.960 Rogan about the guests that he's had on and the 45 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:11.879 level of scrutiny that he's applied to them, and whether 46 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:13.879 or not he's had enough experts, whether or not he's 47 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.400 had enough diversity of opinion when it comes to Israel Palestine. 48 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:22.400 It is amazing to witness, particularly for those that don't know. 49 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:25.120 Douglas Murray has made his name over the past decade 50 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:29.960 raging against the woke, and then he proceeded to utilize 51 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.360 almost every woke tactic you can muster, so much so 52 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:39.000 that he actually chastises Dave Smith when he mentions some 53 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.680 of the architects of not just the War on Terror, 54 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.960 but Clean Break and the entire new Conservative foundation in 55 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.080 the nineteen nineties that changed the geopolitical outlook for the 56 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:54.639 United States Empire. It's irrefutable, but Dave doesn't even mention 57 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:56.400 the religion of the people that he's talking about. 58 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:58.360 He just says their names. 59 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.479 That he had seen the plans at first in nineteen 60 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:03.599 ninety one, that they came from Paul Wolfowitz, that basically 61 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:07.000 then they got what's funny about what the four star 62 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:10.319 general said? They can continue no I'm just curious what's 63 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:11.240 laughable about this. 64 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:17.439 He's like Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas worry. He goes, whoaa, whoa. 65 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:19.840 Do you know what you're doing right now? Do you 66 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.439 know what kind of fertile ground you're creating for anti 67 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:23.560 Semitism to foster. 68 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.120 It's a very strange thing always when Wolf's his name 69 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:31.479 comes up, because he was a relatively low level person 70 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.159 to whom almost everything can be ascribed, and. 71 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.319 I didn't describe. Again, if this is I didn't describe 72 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.280 every you didn't, I'm literally telling you what anyway. No, 73 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:41.000 I'm telling you. 74 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:43.400 What the four star general said about him, and I 75 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.439 wouldn't say Deputary Secretary of Defense is like a nothing position. 76 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:49.120 It's pretty consequential. 77 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.360 Possisi and Dave's like, I'm just telling you the name 78 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.000 of the guys. He's constantly lambasting Dave as not being 79 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.159 an expert and others other guests that have been on 80 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:01.879 Rogan not expert enough. You shouldn't be talking to these people. 81 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.400 You ought to be having more people like me, Douglas, 82 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.159 Mary with my Paul shackcent. Don't you understand that you're 83 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.599 in the presence of royalty. I have the most brilliant 84 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.719 ideas you ever did hear. Sorry, that's not as potious 85 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.600 he is, but you get the idea. He's chastising him 86 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.120 for not having experts on and then Dave gets on 87 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.720 a roll and starts rattling off the names and quotes 88 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.560 of different politicians and intellagency heads and things of that 89 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:32.519 nature that have demonstrated definitively that, yeah, America's foreign policy 90 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:36.240 has been dedicated and dictated to the ends of Israeli 91 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.560 desires many times over the past forty years. In particular, 92 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.839 Instead of just contending with the argument, he just Lambassa 93 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:48.160 him for mentioning a Jewish last name that is woke 94 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:50.680 one oh one worse, it gets way worse than that. 95 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:52.560 Have you been to the Crossing Poins? 96 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:52.839 No? 97 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:55.879 When we lost out at all? 98 00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:01.319 I've never been. You've never been? Well? Am I not 99 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:02.480 allowed to talk about it? Now? 100 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:04.360 I have never been to Have you ever been to 101 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:05.199 Nazi Germany? 102 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:06.639 Are you allowed to have feelings about them? 103 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.759 You can't time travel, but you can't travel, Okay? 104 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:11.120 But so what so what's the point? 105 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:11.360 Like? 106 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:13.560 No, I find that lots of people have been there 107 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:15.079 and agree with me, and lots of people have been 108 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:15.720 there and agree with you. 109 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:17.240 So I don't want to spend a year. 110 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.160 And a half talking about about a place. You should 111 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:21.839 at least do the courtesy of visiting it, all right, 112 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.120 I just think this is a non argument. No, I 113 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:27.079 think it's a non argument. 114 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.480 But if you have to go and touch the ground, 115 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:30.199 I think you. 116 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:30.639 Have to see. 117 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:32.800 I think it's a good idea to see stuff, particularly 118 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.639 if you spend a career talking about it something. Yes, 119 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:39.399 I have a journalistic rule of trying never to talk 120 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:41.879 about a country, even IMPOSSI unless I've at least been there. 121 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:46.079 So and what was near universally perceived to be a slaughter. 122 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.439 The only thing that's being brought up is is this moment, 123 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:54.000 this own by Douglas Murray as he criticizes Dave for 124 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.759 talking about a war zone that he hasn't attended. Well, 125 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.279 first off, let's point out the woke tactic there, that 126 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.959 this is straight out of the woke booklet of how 127 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:07.879 to defend yourself. This is lived experience argumentation that you 128 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:12.279 can't possibly have any opinion on. I don't know abortion rights, 129 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.920 women's rights, trans rights unless you are those things. And 130 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:18.959 Douglas Murray would be the first to tell you, this 131 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:22.439 is not an argument. I can have opinions on all 132 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.560 of these things, and in fact I can convey an 133 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.360 opinion in probably a less biased way, So that's just 134 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:30.560 not an argument at all. 135 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:31.279 He did so. 136 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:35.240 Poorly that his supporters are leaning on this as this 137 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:41.399 anvil moment that just shattered Dave's entire defense. For the 138 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.439 life of me, I can't understand how, but I just 139 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.839 want to point out that the only reason you utilize 140 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.680 a tactic like that is because you are losing, because 141 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.839 you are being flatlined, because you don't actually know as 142 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.519 much about this topic as you claim to. And I 143 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:00.839 genuinely mean this when I say it again, no hyperbole. 144 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:06.959 Dave Smith understands this conflict way better than Douglas Murray. 145 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.240 He's read more about it, He's sure, he's talked to 146 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.720 more experts about it, he's talked to more people about 147 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.240 he's listened to more things about it. It's so evident, 148 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.800 and I implore you if you haven't watched this, despite 149 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.319 the fact that it's absolutely excruciating, maybe fast forward through 150 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.920 the first hour, but if you actually listen to the 151 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:29.720 content of the arguments, it's not close. Dave knows everything 152 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.519 every in and out of this better than Douglas Murray. 153 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:36.519 And the only people that can't see that are those 154 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.399 that are so so indoctrinated, so biased towards the Israeli side, 155 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.120 that they're just going to dismiss out of hand everything 156 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:47.240 Dave has to say, And Douglas Murray intentionally gives them 157 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:51.560 that opportunity to dismiss Dave's arguments by saying, you haven't 158 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.000 even been there. Now, let me point out one real 159 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.199 flaw in that argument. There has been hundreds and hundreds 160 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.480 and hundreds, arguably thousands of journalists and aid workers that 161 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:06.959 have been blown up over the past eighteen months during 162 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.920 this war. So for you to argue, oh you have 163 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:12.240 if you haven't, if you haven't been there, how could 164 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:16.199 you even have an argument. Well, if he goes there, 165 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.279 he may not come back to be able to debate you, Doug, Dougie. 166 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:21.839 I know it probably really pisses him off if you 167 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:25.959 just him as anything other than Douglas. Oh, Douglas. But 168 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:29.279 that's the truth. This is a vicious war zone, one 169 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.080 of the most vicious when it comes to non enemy 170 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:37.000 combatants in recent history, far more dangerous than Ukraine. You 171 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.960 can go to Ukraine as a journalist and probably get 172 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.840 out alive. You go to Gaza, you're definitely taking your 173 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:46.120 life in your hands if you're not just a reporter, 174 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:51.159 not just a journalist, but also aid workers, ambulance drivers, paramedics. 175 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.120 There's footage of massive slaughter of these people time and 176 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.120 time and time again, so much so that you have 177 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.240 reports that come out of the UN and others that 178 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.759 are saying, yeah, like these are human rights violations. This 179 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:05.679 is just a total non argument. And then on top 180 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:08.159 of that, do you think that Douglas Murray went to 181 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:13.039 Gaza during the war and just wandered about talking to 182 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.200 did he interview Hamas or do you think that he 183 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.240 was probably brought in there by the IDF and shown 184 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:22.519 a very curated view of everything. And this is the 185 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:25.399 broader point I want to get to. Despite describing himself 186 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:30.720 as an expert, because obviously that's the insinuation of saying, well, Rogan, 187 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.200 you should have on more experts. Why would you talk 188 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.720 to this silly lad like Dave Smith, a good comedian. 189 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.240 You're going to get information from him? Are you a fool? 190 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:44.720 Marta Maide, Daryl Coopa, you fool? He doesn't even classify 191 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.559 himself as a historian. Here's the thing about Douglas Murray 192 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.000 that people don't know. Douglas Murray is not an expert either. 193 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:56.559 He opines on everything from Ai to China, to Iran 194 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.840 to Russia Ukraine war to Israel Palestine war or What 195 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:04.559 he is is a professional propagandas he travels around to 196 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:07.639 these war zones. Yes, I would imagine at the at 197 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.480 the expense of the empire that wants him to then 198 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:15.039 travel around defending their empire. But that doesn't make him 199 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.840 an expert. It makes him a propagandasm. Might I add 200 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:21.120 he's not some PhD. He's not a historian himself. He 201 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.879 doesn't have any sort of honorifics that would give him 202 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:27.279 despite the fact that you shouldn't do this, but if 203 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.039 you're going to do it, you better at least have 204 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.279 you know, master's, PhD something if you're gonna just be 205 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:33.960 all snooty about it. 206 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:34.759 It doesn't have any of that. 207 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.559 He's got a bachelor's in English. I have a bachelor's too, Doug. 208 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.960 Can I talk to you? Okay, maybe Dave doesn't have 209 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:42.639 a college degree. 210 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:42.919 I do. 211 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:44.480 Now are we on the same level? Will you take 212 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:44.919 my opinion? 213 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:45.360 Seriously. 214 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.720 I mean, it's so absurd. And then you have the entire, 215 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.360 the entire defense brigade for Douglas Murray consists of as 216 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:56.080 I was saying, all all of the woke right, what like, 217 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.879 the actual rogue woke right, not the James Lindsay described 218 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.600 woke right, which is anybody who's even remotely critical of Israel, which, 219 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.519 by the way, James, we figured out I gotta point 220 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.200 this out. In the middle of the night last night 221 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:11.360 James Lindsay posts and he says, now people are referring 222 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.039 to Douglas Murray, this man who wrote X Y Z 223 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:15.639 book as a neocon. 224 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:17.039 LMAO. 225 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.399 You won't believe this. But Douglas Murray, in two thousand, 226 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:23.559 I think it was two thousand and five, maybe it 227 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:28.080 was six, writes a book, Neo Conservatism, Why We Need It, 228 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.639 and it is a defense of neoconservatism. He is arguing 229 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.559 overtly that neo conservatism is the way forward, particularly because 230 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.960 of the threat of radical Islam. He is a neocon. 231 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.279 You don't even need to have the book to know that. 232 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.039 You could just listen to the debate with Dave and 233 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:46.600 you would have concluded the same thing, which any impartial, 234 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:50.799 observer or just fair minded person was capable of gleaning 235 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:54.279 right away. Yeah, he's a neocon. But if you need 236 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.080 proof of that because you can't think for yourself, well, 237 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.720 here's a book written from Douglas Murray called neo Conservatism, 238 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.360 Why We Made It. That is an affirmative statement based 239 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:10.720 off of an advocacy for an ideology, which is neoconservatism, 240 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:16.120 which means that you are a neokon. It's irrefutable. Douglas 241 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.799 Murray is a neokon. So this is how tilted the 242 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.679 worldview of people like James Lindsay and others has gotten 243 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.679 that they can't even despite proof to the contrary that 244 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.679 they are wrong. He got community noted too, But people 245 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.440 are like, what are you talking about? This guy is 246 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:36.200 a self described neocon. That doesn't matter though it doesn't 247 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:37.840 matter that he's written a book on it doesn't matter 248 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:40.799 that he is literally literally his entire job for the 249 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.080 past twenty years has been to talk about and debate about, 250 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:48.879 and go around in high flutint areas and defend the empire, 251 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:53.600 defend the latest war like there's almost no war that 252 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:59.440 he hasn't defended and been an advocate for from Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, Russia, 253 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:04.720 the War Afghanistan, every major war, and it happens to 254 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:06.600 be that it's all of the major wars that the 255 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.080 US has funded one side or the other on or 256 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.320 fought in for that matter. And I don't think that's 257 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:14.600 a coincidence. Now I can't prove this, I absolutely can't 258 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:16.960 prove it. But if you look at his track record, 259 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.360 and you look at his inability to actually make an 260 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.240 argument with the slightest bit of pushback, you might conclude 261 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.200 that this man is not not a historian, not an 262 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.360 honest actor, not a debate participant, not an author, none 263 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.559 of these things. He's a propagandist. And I have to wonder, 264 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.399 and I do, just being honest, I do wonder it 265 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.240 if he's not an intelligence asset. This is the type 266 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.639 of guy that you would want just put it like this. 267 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.759 I'm not saying he is, but would you like to 268 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:49.519 have some high falutin, very intelligent sounding, despite not being 269 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:51.960 very intelligent, type of guy that can go along and 270 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.519 go around rather on the media circuit and just say 271 00:13:55.639 --> 00:14:01.000 you must understand that the Hamas will not accept anything 272 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.360 short of the complete destruction of Israel, and therefore there 273 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.759 is no choice. Sure, sure, yes, the death of innocence 274 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.840 is always tragic, But forty fifty small drop in the bucket. 275 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.399 Have I told you what happened on October seventh, Maybe 276 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.240 I could remind you. Maybe we could circle back to that, 277 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.120 Maybe we could stirkle back to the beginning of this war. 278 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.279 Now to give Dave a little bit of criticism, even 279 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.759 though he doesn't really deserve it. The one thing that 280 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.039 I really, I really thought he should have done, he 281 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.480 should have taken Murray into deep waters and drowned his ass. 282 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.600 He doesn't know fucking any like. I sensed this very 283 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.000 early on. This happened very similarly with the debate I 284 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:35.519 did with. 285 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.919 That Austin guy. I won't even give him the plug. 286 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:41.039 But he didn't know the dates. He didn't know the 287 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:43.360 history of Israel Palestine, he didn't know the history of 288 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.519 the creation of Israel. 289 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:45.600 He didn't know any of it. 290 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.480 And I don't know this for a fact, but I 291 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.879 suspect strongly that if Dave had had done that, he 292 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:54.799 would have demonstrated very rapidly that Douglas Murray does not 293 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.960 know this case. He does not know that this conflict 294 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.080 or the history therein and I thought he had a 295 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.240 real opportunity to just absolutely beat him down with that. 296 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.080 And the reason I strongly believe that, on top of 297 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.200 the fact that he didn't demonstrate a real breath of 298 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.159 knowledge when it came to the modern times, is that 299 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.399 he was constantly, I mean so much so that he 300 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.440 spent the first forty five minutes of a three hour 301 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:21.159 debate putting Dave and Rogan on the back foot. That 302 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.039 to me is indicative of someone who cannot win on 303 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.360 the merit of their argument. If you put your opponent 304 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.639 on their back foot, put them on the defensive, well 305 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.240 then it's going to be much harder for them to 306 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.279 dig into your ideology and point out the flaws in it. 307 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.879 So you spend the first full I'm not exaggerated, the 308 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:40.279 full hour of it was not at all about this 309 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:44.759 debate on hand. This was just about spinning and framing 310 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.799 to try and put your opponent on the back foot. 311 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.480 Had they actually had three hours, I know Dave would 312 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:51.799 have gotten here. So this is why I'm not being 313 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.240 very critical of him. But that was not accidental. I 314 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.759 think that Douglas Murray went into this debate nervous. I 315 00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.600 think that he knew that he could not win on 316 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:01.679 the marriage of his argument on top of the fact 317 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.440 that we have eighteen months of footage and the destruction 318 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:09.480 and public popular support is waning. If not adamantly opposed 319 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.879 to this conflict, certainly America funding it, we're opposed to 320 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:13.399 that for sure. 321 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.159 So I think that. 322 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.720 That's that's really why he approached it this way, despite 323 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.840 the fact that, yeah, sure it may have. It may 324 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:24.120 have prevented him from demonstrating a severe lack of depth 325 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.200 when it comes to this topic. What it did do 326 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.559 is show how unbelievably smarmy he is and just make 327 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.679 I think anybody that came into this thing without a 328 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.320 firm opinion on one side or the other despise him 329 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.039 like that was that was the main pitfall in that strategy. 330 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.720 Sure he didn't he wasn't totally unmasked as being a 331 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.399 rube when it come to this when it comes to 332 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:49.080 this issue, But it did demonstrate his character, his condescension, 333 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.000 his unbelievable you know, he just it was so obvious 334 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.120 he was looking down on both Dave and Joe like 335 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.960 and everybody in the audience. I mean, basically what he's 336 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.039 saying to you by by Lambad sing Rogan about his 337 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:06.799 guest selection is that your audience isn't intelligent enough to 338 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.079 listen to an opinion that they don't agree with and 339 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.319 not just adopt it as their own. This is the 340 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.640 exact same argumentation that Sam Harris has been making as 341 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.200 of late. Basically, anybody that was like anti woke warrior, 342 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.359 not anybody, but a lot of the intellectuals, a lot 343 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.319 of the like former lefty academics that came out strongly 344 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.960 against the woke onslaught in twenty sixteen through twenty as 345 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.160 soon as Israel was in a war, Suddenly none of 346 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:35.400 those lessons were extrapolated forward. They just completely circled back 347 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.279 to all of the woke tactics, including the iron law 348 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.519 of Wolke projection Colling by James Lindsay, which they now 349 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.799 utilize against us by calling us the woke right, despite 350 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.519 the fact that they are in fact explicitly that they 351 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:49.240 are the woke right. 352 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:51.319 But that's woke projection. 353 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.839 So just as the woke left was constantly calling you 354 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.000 a racist while they were saying that, you know, white 355 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.960 people deserve less rights, and you like, well that seems 356 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.559 pretty racist, Well you can't say that because you don't 357 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.359 have power, right, or you do have power. Rather, I mean, 358 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.799 it's just all an absurdity. And I think that what's 359 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.519 most important about what Dave has been doing. He speaks 360 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.480 in a common man parlance. He's able to convey his 361 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.359 ideas in kind of an every man type of way, 362 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.279 and I think because of that he reaches people. It's 363 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.079 a much more approachable way of communicating with people, contrary 364 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.640 to Murray's posh you know, no, do do do do? 365 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.400 I think that Dave's way of doing that and having 366 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.759 the truth on his side and having the facts on 367 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.759 his side and being able to be honest about everything 368 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.000 enables him to reach people that otherwise we wouldn't be 369 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.000 able to reach. Like if you just had if there 370 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.960 was two academics there, it would have been people would 371 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:50.160 have came away, probably split and just agreeing with whoever 372 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.319 they lean towards in the beginning. But I think Dave 373 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.359 really swayed a lot of people because of Douglas Murray's attitude. 374 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.960 While Dave's attitude was like one of genuine concern for 375 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.599 the plight of the Palestinians and for the israelis much 376 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.119 more kind of just a humanistic approach to this conversation. 377 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.720 Some people will say that's appealed to emotion, but I 378 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.640 think when you're talking about the death of forty or 379 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.839 fifty zer innocent people like you ought to have some 380 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.720 emotion about this. So I didn't have a problem with that. 381 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.200 But I think the most most important thing that Dave's 382 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.839 done is that he has shattered time and time again, 383 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.000 You and I and everybody else in this world has 384 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:23.519 done the same. 385 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.960 But Dave's done it on a very high level. 386 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:29.200 Is that he has shattered the expert class narrative, the 387 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.400 myth that there are only certain people that you must 388 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:36.079 tune into to get your news, your information, your analysis, 389 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:40.680 your political commentary. This is exactly the type of nonsense 390 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.039 that he dealt with with Cuomo when he debated him 391 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.799 last year, which I was there for. There is just 392 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.440 there is just no There is no defense for this 393 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.279 any longer. You either have the facts, you either have 394 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.960 the arguments, or you don't. And time and time again, 395 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.039 myself and Dave and Tom and everybody else. Scott Horden 396 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:03.960 Obviously we have proven with our track record that despite 397 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.960 not being experts in some of these arenas, we are 398 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.640 interested in the truth and therefore our analysis, our commentary 399 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:14.079 in real time demonstrates a track record that is far 400 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.319 more accurate than the experts. 401 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.680