Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous. Mister
Grant hughes our offseason look ahead train rolls onward. We
are on to the recently and dearly departed from the playoffs,
not this earth Minnesota Timberwolves, although maybe the core is
gonna be, you know, kind of just bumped into oblivion, Grant.
Before we hop into the vitals, the big question, the
central theme of this how are you feeling.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling great. I'm ready to get into this team.
We got an interesting one ahead of us.
Speaker 1: I think the overarching question I think is will the
cost of talent retention break up the Timberwolves this summer, Grant,
And that's probably a good lean in to lead into,
excuse me, their vitals. But the big three agents that
they have are Niki, Alexander Walker is a free agent,
Julius Randall and nas Reed have player options, and so
that's the that's kind of what is going to determine
where they go from here. And so their vitals is
of right now, they project to be about eight point
six million into the tax, which is about eight point
six million beneath the second apron. This assumes that nas
Reed and Julius Randall pick up their player options and
then they keep the number seventeen pick. It does not
include even a cap hold for Niki Alexander Walker. I
think the question and where to start would be and
before I throw to you off frame it this way?
Can they keep all three without making major changes? Which
basically amounts to saying, can you pay these three a
total of fifty four to fifty five million dollars combined,
like in a year to keep them?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, so it's interesting that we started with with
these three guys because I kind of want to circle
just a little bit back, because I do think another
kind of threshold question that touches on this key issue
is like how will the team react to getting eliminated
in the conference finals?
Speaker 1: Like is it point?
Speaker 2: Based on some of the comments from the players, and
it's just kind of like I don't feel like there
is anything that is pushing them more towards drastic action,
more towards like, oh my god, this group is not
good enough. I think in all I don't know what
you thought about it, but it felt to me like
in a lot of their post game post elimination comments,
it was kind of just acknowledging, especially Anthony Edwards and
Mike Conley and their press are just like that Thunder
team is really good and it's like they played great,
they were better than us, And it was more an
acknowledgment of like we just ran into a monster as
opposed to like, oh, we we don't have it. You know,
it may be true that they don't have it relative
to the Thunder, but that's true of every team. So
I would say, before we get into this, I don't
think the way that they lost, you know, and the
way that their their postseason ended is going to spur
or like trigger any more like rash action than you know,
would have otherwise been on the table, like had they
made the finals or had they gone out in the
first round or whatever. Like, So getting back to that,
like the key question is how many of these three
guys can they keep?
Speaker 3: What's it going to cost? Right? Like, go ahead?
Speaker 1: Actually, I have a question to what you were saying though,
is I would agree that they just kind of ran
into a buzzsaw. But isn't that buzz saw the measuring
stick for every team that wants to contend in the
Western Conference moving forward? And so how do you not
read deeply into the results of that, like what changes
without making a single change? I guess I should say,
how do the Wolves end up beating this Thunder team?
And if the answer is they can't, then it's well,
I'm not saying you trade Anthony Edwards, That's not what
I'm getting at, but it's well, then why would you
continue to pay into the second apron when your twenty
thirty two pick is already frozen for a team that's
not good enough to beat the team?
Speaker 2: I think because and a lot of teams should think
this way. And I think because the goal should be
to get back to this point that they just got
to and hope for a little bit of organic growth
or a little bad luck on the Thunder, like what
if what if Jalen Williams has like a sprained knee
or a sprained ankle, or like what if the Thunder
have some It's just like as great as they are,
like nothing's ever a guarantee. So I think, whether you're
talking about the Thunder of the Wolves or any other
conference finalist or any other conference semifinalist, I think the
goal can't be how do we put together a roster
that's gonna be better than the Thunder's roster, like when
everybody's at full strength on page like because you can't.
So maybe that sounds like aiming low, but I think
it's just acknowledging reality and being like, we need to
just stay as good as we can realistically and within reason,
and just try to get back to this point and
maybe maybe we catch a break, you know like that
that doesn't that doesn't feel like like a defeatist path
to me. I think that's just like the smart way
to go about it. And I think that's true anytime
you have like a like the Dynastic war the Kde Warriors,
it's like, well the Rockets for example, where's like, well,
we're just gonna try to be as good as we can,
and like they if they don't miss a billion straight
threes and whatever game that was, they maybe they beat him.
Speaker 3: You know, like there's so.
Speaker 2: Anyway that's that's kind of a broader league wide thing.
So can I give you my preference on what I
think would be best for the Wolves here, like midterm.
Speaker 3: Long term?
Speaker 2: I would like to get read an Alexander Walker back
hope Randall opts in and then try to move him
in a trade, because like I think, I think that's
not the most likely outcome. I think the most likely
outcome is is Alexander Walker gets an offer somewhere and
he's the unrestricted free agent, right, so, like I think
he's likely to get a decent offer and and just
not be back. I think Randall is Randall may just
pick that up and extend. I'd be okay with that,
depending on the number read I think you could, so
like we can get into this. I'm sorry if I'm
jumping ahead, but like, if you give him one hundred
and forty percent raise off of his opt in, you
get to like four for ninety two. I feel like
that's a night to keep him around. Maybe you don't
even need to go that high.
Speaker 1: Did you see did you happen to see the viral?
And you know what, I can't even I don't know
if it's real or not because of what AI could do.
But he was having a DM with someone who I
guess lost a bet on it, and one of the
comments was like he was basically like, you're broken fat
and I'm about to get one hundred million dollars, and
so if you think that, but like the four year
ninety three, like this kind of right in line with
that mark. So maybe he's maybe he was dropping a
little bit of news in that DM argument.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: So that's that's we should probably go a player by
player to kind of busch down what the options are
if you'd like to do it that way.
Speaker 1: I think I think the way you put it was smart.
It's like what your preference would be, and I think
I wondering if the preferred route would be can you
the READ extension? So get him to opt in and extend.
I think that that makes the most sense for the
timb Wolves. You're kind of kicking the can on him
getting more expensive down the road, But that's what you
kind of have to do when you're at this level
and paying this much for a team. I them and wondering,
so let's use that fifty five million dollar number, assuming
they'll keep the number seventeen pick if you have that
fifteen million for Read, now you're down to forty. And
so if we assume that Nikkei Alexander Walker is going
to get the non tax payer mid level, which is
really all any them other than Brooklyn has to offer.
Let's just put that at fifteen. So now all of
a sudden, you're back down to twenty five. Is there
any universe in which like Randall is taking that as
part of a longer term deal of twenty five million.
Speaker 2: He opts out and it gets three for I don't know,
sever five, or he's eighty something because it'll ascend a
little bit each year, or just like yeah, straight three
for seventy five, even or even four plus one change,
yeah plus one for seventy five, something like that. I
think there's I think that's realistic one because Randall can't
opt out and expect to do better somewhere else because
the Nets aren't gonna pay him market rates right like
he as if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. Talking
about Randall like he's not getting thirty million dollars, I
don't think from anybody.
Speaker 1: He's kind of cut from the brand in Ingram cloth,
or maybe Brandon Ingram's cut from there. They're both originally Lakers,
but where it's they're really good basketball players, but they're
just not easy to fit into your ecosystem. And I
would argue that he's probably even harder to fit into
your ecosystem than brandon Ingram, even if you think that
Randall's the better player.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yet if.
Speaker 1: I'm Julius Randall, I'm looking at with like, look at
what brandon Ingram just got from the Toronto Raptors at
forty plus million dollars a year. So yeah, my guess
would be, no, he wouldn't sign for twenty five. But
then you just said it, where is he getting more
than the non taxpayer mid level this stuff? So if
you could get four years and one hundred plus million
dollars when you're factoring in raises, do you just take
that security or would you, as him, rather opt in
have that thirty one million dollar number. Some of it
is incentives, but let's say thirty one million and then
roll the dice in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 2: Are yeah right, go one plus one? Like just this
is something like that. I think that's that's a possibility.
The reason I the reason I there's a couple of
reasons why my reference would be to look to just
trade Randal if you could, or try try to get
something for him. One the read and go bear minutes.
If you want to just imagine a wolves team Without Randal, yes,
you lose the playmaking, but I think maybe Edwards takes
a step forward there, maybe you get something from Dillingham
next year. Maybe maybe you backfill some of that secondary playmaking,
which is what Randal I think is most. That's I
think his most valuable contribution to the team is, like
he can't just be the other guy making plays besides Edwards.
Speaker 1: Right, especially with where Mike Conley's at.
Speaker 2: Right now, right, and you're gonna reduce Conley's role for
sure next year. But in theory, there are you know,
maybe Terrence Shannon, what he showed, he's gonna play a
little more. Maybe Jalen Clark's gonna play a little more.
Those aren't like playmakers per se, but Shannon kind of
makes stuff happen. Read and Gobert together this past season
plus thirteen per hundred, and that's in nineteen hundred possessions
like that front core duo works. It actually weirdly feels
it would feel kind of strange like going with a
Read Gobert starting front because you've almost circled back to Towns
Gobert in a lot of respects and you just like
had Randall for a season. Although as I say that, like,
I don't know what you're trading Randall for if he's
opting in at thirty point nine, Like I just like, oh,
we're going to get to that, okay, cool, because because
that's a harder thing for me, because the same arguments
you would make against a team signing him for a
deal starting at thirty million dollars this offseason, it's a
lot of the same arguments against that being realistic apply
to trading Julius Randall, Like who's interested in that? The
difference is like, well, there's just no cap space, and
teams might that don't have cap space might want Julius
Randall at that number.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm eager to hear your your pitches on that front,
because it's it seems like a tough fit if you're
moving him as the Wolves.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the value there is almost as it's
a very useful player on an expiring contract, and so
if your salary anchor, you could do much worse. But
that's we'll get to that a second. So when you're
looking at all of this, when you mentioned Jalen Clark
and Terren Shannon, that seems to lie up with what
I feel like has been the assumption of along of those
guys have a better chance of replacing a lot of
what Nikkeil Alexander Walker does than really anything that nas
Read or Randall do. And so I kind of have
just pentled this in as I don't know what the
construct is gonna look like of these returns, but it
kind of feels like nas Reid and Randall will opt
in get extensions, then Niki Alexander Walker's just gone. That's
like my most and maybe Julius Randall optin and doesn't
get an extension, but that's my that would be my
prediction of how this shakes out is those two are
back and Nikil Alexander Walker is not.
Speaker 2: I think that's right because if you look at if
Brooklyn's gonna pay, if just we have to we keep
We're sorry, We're gonna mention Brooklyn like a trillion times,
even when we're not doing the Brooklyn off season.
Speaker 1: Every single trade that I build now is well, but
we need to send this salary to Brooklyn so that
none of these other teams get hard to right.
Speaker 2: But but like if you're Brooklyn, of the three Wolves
potential free agents, Alexander Walker is is like, that's the
guy you'd get of mid level money or slightly above,
and that would make sense for you because you could
flip him later or he might just that's a player
you want at that number. So like, I just I
think I think that's right if you are if you
are forced to say what's most like who's most likely
to be gone?
Speaker 3: It's just him.
Speaker 2: And the point about you know, the youth on the
Timberwolves roster, like those guys don't replace a Randall or
Read nearly as easily as they replace Alexander Walker. That's
just like, that's just the way the roster's built.
Speaker 1: I'm what's gonna be interesting now, is though, and this
ties into it as new ownership is coming in and
so you have a rod Mark Ray and then they've
now sold off other parts of the team and done
quite well. So there is this messaging out there that
they're going to continue to pay through the teeth the Wolves.
As of right now, they could still trim this technically
before the league calendar new year starts a ninety plus
million dollar tax bill. Their twenty thirty two draft pick
is frozen. As we mentioned before, Tim only, by the way,
has like an executive's option. What do we call that?
Speaker 2: He?
Speaker 1: But like he has he has a he's he can
be a free agent, right and I think that he
will kind of be the barometer of Okay, well, if
he stays, then you know that he at least believes
they're serious. But if he leaves, well then it's a
crap like this team is going to get into cost
cutting modes. So just based off whether it's your instinct,
what you know about when new ownership regimes take over,
what you've seen being said written, do you think that
there's any chance? But because if the Wolves are willing
to enter the season in the second apron, everything we
just talked about can be moved, like you can bring
back everybody and figure it out later, although it of
course is a lot harder. Do you see any scenario
in which this team stays, I won't even say stays,
enters next season in the second apron?
Speaker 3: Again, yeah, I do. I do see a scenario where
they enter it.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's just because they're planning to trade Randall
and that's gonna get you out of it. But everything,
I think John Krasinski had a pretty thorough right up,
like a I guess you'd call it a post mortem.
And in that I it the signs to me were
that this new ownership group is very comfortable spending and
whatever the tax bill is going to be within reason,
like like that's okay, that's my reado, that's my sense
of it. Like certainly there haven't been, you know, super
clear indications.
Speaker 3: I think the.
Speaker 2: Way that if Connolly is back, which does seem likely
because it in that same Krasinski right up he pointed
out that like this this ownership group like went and
got Connolly, like he's kind of their guy. Is is
the way that it was kind of laid out. So
one assumes that Connolly kind of priced in his like
or negotiated this executive option or whatever you want to
call it, like one because he wasn't sure who was
going to own the team, and relatedly to didn't know
what the like spending tolerance was going to be. And
so I think if you just kind of look at
that holistically, the new ownership group seems comfortable spending in connall,
that's a good thing for keeping Tim Connolly. So uh,
you don't wanna, you don't want to go over the
second apron for the reasons you said, like that just
makes things harder, makes it's not as simple to get
out of it because of all the restrictions that status imposes.
Speaker 3: But you won't. You don't get dinged.
Speaker 2: Until the end of the year, right, Like that's when
everything gets calculated, so you can make moves at the
deadline if you have to. And who knows, maybe there's
just better value in a Randall trade at that point
or in you maybe you or Alexander Walker for that matter.
I don't know, Like there's there's definitely it's not the
end of the world. If they come in over the
second Apron to start the season.
Speaker 3: I don't think you want to do that.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't be stunned, would you if they If
they were just like, yeah, we're screw it, we're keeping
all three and we'll figure it out later.
Speaker 1: I honestly I would be stunned. I have and this
isn't I'm not even necessarily saying it's gonna be an
indictment of the way the new ownership regime like handles things.
It really feels like this is book the second Apron
is going to become this taboo thing is that we
might see teams in it for a year, or if
we know, like if it was let's say the thunder
were up against this and they're not, or kind of
like what the Celtics were, whereas oh, they'll spend two
years in there. We were pretty sure before the Tatum jury.
I just think it's become Look at what happened with
the Suns. Look at even how restrictive like being in
the first Apron was for the Knicks this past year
when you're talking about building top and it's different when
you have proof of concept and the Wolves, to their credit,
the consecutive Conference finals appearance. This is insane. That's a
hell of an accomplishment. And as a fan, I would
just say, yeah, pay whatever, especially if you're not gonna
be able to make changes. Maybe you draft someone with
the number seventeen pick and they are able to contribute
on a cost control deal. I really just believe that
the second Apron is going to be this off limits
things for teams save for maybe a year or two,
and that's going to be reserved for like you just
won the title, which the Wolves did not. And I
think the other problem here is, as we both noticed,
you had until the end of this year's in to
get out of the second apron. But like, because you
can't aggregate salaries, like you need to have a team
that has the flexibility to take back more money so
that you are ducking the second apron. And that all
depends on like Okay, so as of right now, let's
just say read and Randall opt in. If you're going
to go into the second apron for Alexander Walker and
he gets like mid level money, let's just say fifteen,
you're like six seven million dollars into the second apron,
and that's with another roster spot open, I believe, So
you're just gonna shave like eight nine million dollars in
a war, like while giving up one player in a trade.
I yeah, like mid season, that's what's rough.
Speaker 2: You're right, I think, I think I think the maybe
I'm over I'm overstating the ease with which you can
get out of that situation, because the second you're in it,
suddenly your options, just like several of them disappear.
Speaker 1: What you could do, But I don't know, like I mean,
because you could look at it as like if things
go off the rail, since you can use ML's as
like trade exceptions, now if you kill Alexander Walker, you
just give him the exact amount of money that the
mid level exception is worth. Or maybe it's a conley,
like if it's mid season and it's right, this isn't
working out and like we need to get like you
can then get off him, or I guess the benefit
would be if Nikil Alexander Walker's on a multi year
deal because if look, that's the other challenge of this
is like if Randall just opts in and he's not extended, like, well,
then you can't move him, like after your season is
technically over before the league calendar resets, because he's a
free agent. So that's just why I'd be stunned. But
it's not You're right to say that it's not outside
the realm of possibility. And I think if you were
confident that you could say we'll trade player X, it
would have to be Commle or Nikil Alexander Walker. Those
are the salaries that would fit into the mL and
be large enough to get you out of the second apron.
If you're confident that you can just dump that mid
year that I would say you should absolutely go that
route because you're not hurting your team at all, you're
giving time to figure out, like can we bring Terren
Shannon Junior and Jail Clark into this? What does the
number seventeen pick look like. There's also Dante DiVincenzo here too.
I haven't mentioned his names, Like that's another number you
could use to move off. It's it's just such a
tricky situation for them.
Speaker 2: Grant, Yeah, I think, I mean, this is this is
life now. If you're a very good team that's also
very expensive and just I don't know, I feel like
the way we have to analyze a lot of these
teams offseasons has fundamentally changed with the second Aprin Not
that that's news, but it's just like it really it's
a hard cap. I don't know, we've we've talked about
that a lot, but that's what it's starting to feel like.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to get into probably what everyone's favorite
part of these look aheads are, and that's where their
biggest yeah, go ahead, biggest needs and trades. Would we
be in agreement that their biggest need is clearly like
they need to take some offensive pressure off of Anthony
Edwards because like Randall's series against the Thunder was not
I mean, yeah, it was an indictment of Julius Randall
a little bit. There's just gonna be certain teams where
he can't. And I think you could even say I
think Anvy Edwards is a fantastic basketball player, but I
really don't think he's ever going to be best suited
to as he's improved as a passer, he's even a
proved in his decision making out of double teams. I
don't think he's ever gonna be suited to be like
a heliocentric type like completely where it's James Harden level,
or like Pete Luca. I don't think that's I think
he's gonna be best weaponized where you can use him
more off the ball.
Speaker 2: I'm not ready to foreclose anything for him. Normally, I'm
really quick to be like, oh, he's not that type
of player, like and and maybe maybe like maybe I've
just been burned too many times so that that that's
why I'm being hesitant to to foreclose, like I I
don't know, there's just I think I think you're right
based on what we've seen. It's just like he's not
Harden is an interesting type of comp like Harden is
just like a very he sees the game very differently,
like he just is a different type of player and
if but the question is, like, do you do you
even want Anthony Edwards, Like even if he could do
that in the in the the way the league is being,
you know, the way the game is played. Now, do
you even want Edwards to be like a super high
usage like everything runs through him type of guy. Probably not,
and especially not if if you're right that he's just never.
Speaker 3: Going to be like best utilized that way.
Speaker 2: So I do agree though that this was the same
issue that we talked a lot about when they got Randall.
It's like, well, if nothing else, Randall is a guy
that can make some plays, and like, foolishly we're like
Dillingham too, like he's gonna split some of that secondary
playmaking stuff as a rookie.
Speaker 3: That was dumb in hindsight.
Speaker 2: I think that's right, that they just got to find
somebody that gives them another sort of offense generator that
isn't Edwards, that might unlock Edwards as like an off
ball guy like you're talking about, Is.
Speaker 1: There any plausible scenario on which Rob Dillingham is that
player next season?
Speaker 2: I think I still am very tantalized by the flashes
that we saw, and they were brief, just the quickness,
the like aggressiveness in his very best moments. I still
I still think there's something there. We saw so little
this year though, that it's like you can't you can't
go in to next year saying we a need and
be expect Rob Dillingham to be like a playoff level
secondary creator.
Speaker 3: I think that's it.
Speaker 2: Could happen in year three or four, maybe, but we'd
need to see a lot more next year to feel
good about that.
Speaker 1: He's like kind of a human water wigglely the way
that he moves on the ball, there's the jitterbugginess there,
and that.
Speaker 2: Go I was gonna say, do agree that there's like
there's a fair amount to like just just in like
the eye test stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the I don't think just And I think part
of it was he did deal with some ankle stuff
this year, I believe, and then to seldom usage he's not.
I don't think my opinion of him has changed. If anything,
I might be a little bit higher on him than
when they first acquired him. So I just I'm always struggling,
like this is why the two timeline stuff is so difficult.
I'm not saying that's what the Wolves were trying. It
was sort of a manipulated version of it, but it's
just so hard to get these high leverage prospects reps
to grow on a team that's trying to win. Now.
I think there's probably more the Wolves could have done
during the regular season, but you were like they were
like barely at five hundred for half the year, it
felt like, and so you didn't have that margin for
error to just say, hey, Rob Dillingham, go out there
and make mistakes, close some games and help that that
figure it out. Maybe if he goes to summer League,
that'll be like a big like, oh, could he have
one of those Desmond Baine type things where it's oh,
or he's ready now going into his sophomore year.
Speaker 2: The other thing too, just to draw a comparison to
a player on his own team, like Terrence Shannon kind
of got his little playoff like I don't know, baptism
and he was awesome for a one five minute stretch
and then just got awful for another one. And it's
like Dillingham hasn't even done that step yet. Like the
expectation should be that, like Dillingham's first real playoff stint
will look like Shannon's a little bit where it's like
he looks good and then it's like, we have to
take this guy off the floor immediately. He's killing us
like that. So you can't that's just reiterating like you
cannot expect Dillingham by next postseason to be someone that's
just like, we got how do we find into twenty
five minutes for this guy, like we must you know,
he's gonna I think he's gonna go through the Shannon
thing and maybe next year at least Shannon will be
like seventy five twenty five got a plan versus got
to get him off the floor, you know.
Speaker 1: So you get into how do they go about addressing
that need if they're not willing to say it's gonna
be Dillingham or bust. And I don't think you need
to make an upgrade somewhere because okay, let's say Randall's back,
you'll still have Conley that clearly wasn't enough. We have
to start with the name that's being thrown out there
and has been. They were in on him towards the
trade deadline. Should they be a Kevin Durant team, And
just for context, there's a couple of things that need
to happen. Here is one, Kevin Rant really needs to
force his way to Minnesota, because I don't think that
even if you include Dillingham and the number seventeen pick,
there's no way they're gonna have the best offer here.
There's and if they do, it's because they gave up
Jaden McDaniels, which I don't think that you want them
to do. Right. The other thing is, okay, then you
definitely need to be out of the second apron. So
you need to make sure that you're taking back less
money than you bringing in. So you're looking at multiple
players going out and probably a third and fourth team involved.
And the baseline cost to me, Grant is you correct
me if you think that this is off the rails.
You're looking at Randall Dillingham, the number seventeen pick, and
Dante DiVincenzo. And so what you've done at that point
is you've turned Rob Dillingham and Karl Anthony Towns into
Kevin Durant. Is what it feels like? Yeah, are you
doing it? That's what I'm asking you.
Speaker 2: I think If that, well, we can have a separate
cat conversation. Do you want to relitigate the Cat Randall
Devincenzo trade before we get out of here? I think,
I think for where the wolves are now, I think that,
I think I like that.
Speaker 3: Do you not do that? If it's just.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing is, I think you have to do that.
But you've now winnowed down your on ball creation because
like Kevin Durant is still fantastic, but like we've seen
him just under pressure in recent years, like facing the like,
it's just not the same as if you might even
trust Julius Randall a little bit more to set up
for his teammates out of double teams. At this point,
that's all. That's all I'm saying. And to lose him
and then your best prospect in that regard. So now
you're saying, okay, well we need to be healthier than
we were this past year or just as healthy. And
it's Conley, it's Durant, it's Edwards. And then I guess,
are you hoping to strike minimum contract gold or is
there a way for you to open up the mini
mle at that point? Probably not, like not, probably not,
definitely not, so your margin for error becomes slimmer. But
I think you you kind of said it at the
top of this discussion to where it's not that they
feel resigned, but it's they ran into the much better team.
So I don't know that running it back and hoping
for incremental growth from Clark, Shannon and Dillingham is gonna
get you over the hump. Kevin Durant might.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and if we agree that the biggest need
is taking pressure off Anthony Edwards, I would I would
posit that if Kevin Durant is on the floor with
Anthony Edwards, he will see a lot fewer double teams
Like I just you cannot and certainly even double off
players other than Durant. But I just I'm envisioning all
the times where and by the way I think Edwards
made the right decision.
Speaker 3: This has been the backlash to.
Speaker 2: The backlash on Edwards is already like, well, and you
know we're I don't know what lap we're on with it.
But I thought Edwards generally offensively, like did the right
thing a lot against the thunder, Like I moved the
ball where it needed to go. He needs to be
better at just like finding a way to draw a
foul or score or whatever. But like, I'm just not
gonna kill a guy for against the thunder defense, specifically
making a good pass to an open shooter pretty darn often,
Like I think. I think, I think that's about as
much as you could ask for him. I'm curious on
your take because it could I feel like you disagree
a little bit, but like I just before I give it,
hand it over, I think Durant being on the floor,
I would challenge someone to come up with a change
to the roster that would better address taking pressure off
of Edwards than adding Kevin Durant to the roster.
Speaker 3: That's all go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I mean, you would
probably want like more on ball facilitation out of that,
but I think it's a trade that you would have
to make. My take was it's just ruined now is
I don't think he wanted it enough, and maybe if
he was married he wanted it, so.
Speaker 3: I did forget that part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so I actually have an agreement economy.
Speaker 1: I did mostly agree with what you said. I think
you're probably just you're still a little bit more open
minded on his offensive ceiling than I am. I don't
think he's reached it. I mean the development of his
pull up three pointer. I just feel like the way
the roster is structured right now, and maybe even a
little bit if you make the Kevin Durant trade, is
that you still need I don't want to call it
hegali O centric, but you need him to have more
of the James Harden like control and agency over the offense.
And that's not what I want to seem like he's
he's so good off the ball too, like the stuff
that he's able to move, like when he's able to move,
excuse me, off the ball, I want to see him
nudged in that direction. I think Kevin Durant certainly does that,
But my question would be does he do that he
takes fresh off edwards, So you have to make that deal,
but it's you know, is that but first of all,
is that package like if you're a phoenix, like that's
one you take if you're trying to be competitive now
and I guess, and what's the salary that you're getting
rid of in that? Because you can't take back all
that money. That's that more than Camra Durant makes the Phoenix.
Speaker 2: I just I'm never gonna have a read on Phoenix,
Like I just I'm fascinated to see like what they
do ultimately prioritize in the Durant trade that is imminent.
So yeah, I don't I don't know how to how
to assess like would they view that as the best
offer or whatever?
Speaker 1: But like I might honestly, I might not even have
included enough money grant.
Speaker 3: I mean, well yeah you could, you might have to.
Speaker 2: The thing is the Wolves they have a lot of
like they don't have really any like unmovable contracts. It
doesn't you know, maybe you think Gobert, like go Bear
is a weird fit because you have to kind of
have a certain environment for him to make a lot
of sense in. But like they can put you put
the Vincenzo in it, put whatever you know, Reid can
be whoever. There's like there's a lot of different configurations
that the Wolves can get to, and yet it still
feels like, how is it possible that they could get
Kevin Durant? And yeah, but I mean it is like
it's doable.
Speaker 1: It just might take because look, so we have Donta
Evian Chnzel's basically twelve. You attach him to randle It.
Let's say thirty one. That's forty three. The number eight
pick cap Hold is gonna be at this year or no,
number seventeen. I'm calling it number eight. That's four point two.
And then Dillingham will be at what next season? He well,
he wasn't number eight pick, so he'll be He'll be
some money, but not a ton six point six. That's clod.
You're probably gonna need to include more money. That's insane.
So now we're talking about five for one. That's that's insane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's tough.
Speaker 2: Well, if you're Durant, all things be because you said
at the top, like Durant sort of one element of
this is he's gotta say, like, it's Minnesota, please, Like
that's where I want to be if you're him as that, like,
because there are plenty of other teams Tiams that he
could direct himself to and like Houston or whatever, San Antonio.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like.
Speaker 2: Where where else might the Wolves are. They're on the
short list, or at least they should be in my opinion.
Speaker 1: In terms of like, if you wanted the best chance
at winning a title next year, and you're looking at
what's left over after the deal. If you're gonna tell me,
Anthony Edwards, Jade McDaniels, Rudy Gobert, and nas Red with
an outside chance of Gnab being there, still Minnesota is
a really good pick you might prefer. I don't even
know if you would prefer San Antonio because they're so
kind of early in their timeline. You would probably prefer Houston,
but we don't know if they're gonna be interested in
someone that old. And then I'm trying to think of
the only other team. Miami's a no.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: People keep mentioning the Knicks. I just don't like, what
are we doing? Just a Karl Anthony Towns for Durant trades?
Straight up? That doesn't involve the Sons getting Karl Anthony Towns.
I don't like. So maybe that would be a team
you prefer, but even then probably not. Denver would be
interesting if you had the chance to play with Jokic
and sure Murray, that might Gordon, that might be the one. Boy.
Speaker 3: How do you do?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: This isn't it this?
Speaker 1: Well? We did it on the Nuggets podcast. It was
basically h It would not basically it's Porter Junior, and
there are all their other salaries plus whatever, like pick there,
and then you have to include like one of your
young guys, like is it Peyton Watson? Is it? Do
you have Christian Brown in that deal? They probably wouldn't,
but that I think of all the teams we mentioned,
Houston and Denver would be the teams that would be
most tempting to me relative to Minnesota. And I think
you could make a case for Minnesota over I would
say either one of them, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean they've made it farther than either of those teams.
So that's what's if you're Durant and you're like, I
got my time in this league is dwindling, like Minnesota
being a conference finalist, and all we know for sure
is that Minnesota wasn't as good as just this potentially
dominant you know, gonna be there for years Thunder team,
Like I would maybe lean Minnesota, honestly.
Speaker 1: Is there any names that'spring to mind if you're looking
out Okay, like Kevin Durant's off the table here as
of right now. I mean if if Randall and if
Randall and nas Reid excuse me, I can't think right
now opt in and gnaws leaving you will have access
to the Mini mid level. Exception, is there like a name,
like can you get Malcolm brogged in for that? He
might be interesting here? Is that too redundant? If you
want Dillingham to play and you still have Mike Conley, Like,
I just don't like, do you like, what does it
Danthony Melton go for? If he's healthy, he might be
interesting on that team. Is sort of a naw replacement
that's cheaper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. That would be an interesting one. I mean,
like the the you know, we'll run into this a lot.
The crop is pretty limited, especially with the Mini mid level. Like,
that's not gonna get you, I don't know, does not
get you Tied Jerome, that's not gonna get you. Maybe
that gets you one of the Joneses, like Trey or Tyss.
But then like, what's what's the difference. If Mike Conley
probably is still better than either of those guys, you're
not gonna get in the Malik Beasley.
Speaker 3: Maybe that gets you Gary Trent Junior? But how much?
Like why do you that isn't that?
Speaker 2: The weird thing about Minnesota is it's like the addition
they need to make is like a super high level
offensive creator and the tools they have other than a
trade is just like you can't get that guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like even you know when you mentioned the
I guess one of the Jones is like in terms
of table setting, but like Dennis Shruder would be a
no D'Angel, you are not gonna reunite with D'Angelo Russell is.
Speaker 3: And they can't.
Speaker 1: What are you doing anything for you?
Speaker 2: Grant Well, that might be someone that would fit into
that that exception, but like the other like Russell and Shruder,
I think are gonna be get more than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's also a good point. Uh Chris Paul,
Oh hmmm, can you just have like age fifty Mike
Commy and Chris like well, Bill dam is learning from
both of them, that's sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah you oh man, I feel like you would need
Mike Conley to like protect Dillingham from Chris Paul just
like personality wise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think again, as we've gotten all the way through this,
I do think I'm all the way back at where
I started, which is you just kind of bring back
two of your three big free agents and you just
hope you get enough organic improvement, and you're at this
stage again in the conference finals, and you just get
a little luckier, or you get a little better and
the other team you face gets a little worse.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the only other thing I'd ask you
is independent of a Kevin I wanted to ask you,
is independent of a Kevin Durant. Trade do you consider?
I think when you're looking at your financial resource allocation
with how much Read, Randall and Gobert would be making
moving forward, is there just what is the level of
player that needs to get you like coming back in
a trade that gets you thinking about what's trade one
of these guys.
Speaker 3: Like so just let's say it's Randall or or even can.
Speaker 1: You get to a point and say, like is there
a case to say why isn't it Read or why
isn't it like should you be looking at moving Gobert
who the defense is always going to be there, but
he like there are just offensive matchups for him, like
going up against certain defenses where he's just not a
good offensive player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think Gobert is an interesting I
just don't know what the trade market would be for
a player just that that has such a really does
still still is like a defense under himself, but increasingly
is like he's just killing us on offense, like he
just he can't catch the ball, he's in the way
all this stuff. Like so what I mean, Like that's
the thing is like if we trade Randal, how how
easy is it trading Randall to get a player that
just on balance is better than Randall? Like you might
get a steadier player, but I don't think you're getting
one that could, in a couple of playoff deep series
playoff games, be the best player out there, which he
did like a couple times. Like I don't think you
get that guy by trading Randall. You get the guy
that's like, well he was our fourth best player for
most of this series or something. Well we got two bodies, yeah, yeah, yeah,
something like that.
Speaker 1: Would you if you were trading for Kevin Rant would
you prefer to give up Julius Randall as opposed to
Rudy Gobert as the Timberwolves?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I would.
Speaker 3: I think I think I don't trust.
Speaker 1: To read random minutes enough to say, yeah, go ahead
and trade Gobert.
Speaker 2: Yeah No, I think you they're for better or worse
I think they're kind of hooked in with Gobert for
another couple of years at least.
Speaker 1: My final on here is Donta. Evencenzo's extension eligible for
three years and sixty four point five million, he's still
making just under the mL for the next two seasons,
which is kind of wild if he would sign that.
I don't know he had a rocky end, but I
might consider offering it to him just to kind of
preserve the asset at a cost that's not going to
be prohibitive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's I think he's probably movable. That's
the only thing I would consider is like is he
tradeable for value on this deal? Because you can't be
in the wolves overall financial position and just be extending
guys like at what is he the Sometimes he's the
six man's I guess he could start, but other times
he's like ninth, you know, like, you can't be spending
twenty plus million on that guy if you are stuck
with him.
Speaker 1: Most likely player to be traded or leave other than
Nikhil Alexander Walker, hmm, I'll.
Speaker 3: I'll just go Randall. I don't feel great about it.
Speaker 1: I almost I'm just gonna I'm for variations. I'm gonna
say Mike Conley, I think he's probably too important to
the culture. But I really think that there's gonna be
some cost cutting concerns here. I honestly think that we're
headed in that direction. I don't think it's gonna cause
the complete disillusion of the Timberwolves, but I don't think
it's being I guess it's being talked about a bunch,
but I don't. I don't think we I still don't
think we all collectively understand like the gravity of how
teams are gonna approach the second Apron stuff.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be fair.
Speaker 2: The Wolves are gonna be one of the most yet
another interesting like test case for like what are we?
Speaker 3: How do we operate?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: The Celtics were supposed to be that team until the
Tatum injury. Now it's like, well, they have no choice
but to do this, and so like after them, it
might just be the Wolves is the best case study
for it. Anything else on that before we skidada.
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching. Let us know what you think. The Wolves
have one of the more interesting offseasons ahead, So let
us know what you think they will do, should do
all that stuff. Remember, please rate, review, subscribe wherever you're
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Speaker 3: It's gonna do it, shouts Frank Lakina. Apologies, Jared Allen