Speaker 1: Rock chain is actually the technology for new relationship like
Speaker 1: how people walk with people, how people walk with a company,
Speaker 1: walk with the association, even walk with the government. And
Speaker 1: the crypto is just acting as the connecting dots or
Speaker 1: connecting points, basically like a blood blowing into the entire ecosystem.
Speaker 1: And to make it live, the crypto is not designed
Speaker 1: for human, It's actually designed for machine. However, the most
Speaker 1: of the utility of the crypto is still between human
Speaker 1: to human.
Speaker 2: Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Tony Edward and my guest today is Sonny Lou who
Speaker 2: is the co founder and CEO of v Chain. Sonny,
Speaker 2: great to have you, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Thank you, TONI you know always coming, Always feel great
Speaker 1: to come back to your podcast.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know I'm a big fan of v chain.
Speaker 2: I'm a VET token holder, and I'm excited to dive
Speaker 2: into the latest and greatest around v chain. And you
Speaker 2: know there's a lot happening in the market, so I
Speaker 2: want to get your thoughts on everything. I would love
Speaker 2: to kick it off with the hyabousa dev net which
Speaker 2: went live. Tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, actually it's it's a test net face. We
Speaker 1: leave like a three months before the official Higabuosa launch,
Speaker 1: So September second to September nine, that's a migration for
Speaker 1: the test dev net. We basically simulate everything for the
Speaker 1: men at and the you know, the official launch that's
Speaker 1: exactly three months later. That's gonna be a December second
Speaker 1: to December nine for the Hyabooza launch. So it went
Speaker 1: pretty well, and you know, we did all of the
Speaker 1: testing internally, and also you know, try the different type
Speaker 1: of migration and try the different type of situation. Make
Speaker 1: sure we know like how to respond in case anything
Speaker 1: other than we expect it, we can we can respond
Speaker 1: to that. Also. Right right now we're on the auditing phase,
Speaker 1: so we're getting a bunch of security auditors to auditing
Speaker 1: the codes, auditing the protocols, basically auditing everything. Spend quite
Speaker 1: a fortune on the securities. Roughly we can get the
Speaker 1: auditing rapport around the early October or mid October. If
Speaker 1: everything runs well, you know, good to go. If even
Speaker 1: we discover some small box or you know, something we
Speaker 1: could improve, we still have a roughly wine and a
Speaker 1: half month to fix it. So yeah, so far as
Speaker 1: you're good, I'm very confident about the launch.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, great progress there and looking forward to the
Speaker 2: future updates. So maybe we can run through some of
Speaker 2: the benefits of this update, right, such as I read
Speaker 2: v or, inflation goes down, block rewards earned only by
Speaker 2: staking VET and much more. Can we walk through some
Speaker 2: of the benefits.
Speaker 1: Oh, of course, I'm actually the high abooseize the main show.
Speaker 1: Let's say, you know Gladica, which launched in June. It's
Speaker 1: just a warm up, you know, there are some cool
Speaker 1: features where you mentioned about a visa or in Galatica
Speaker 1: as well. Firstly, more demands you know, one hundred percent
Speaker 1: of the transaction fees will be burned and also dynamic
Speaker 1: gas fees as a new feature has been produced into
Speaker 1: the Galadica, so which simply to say more demands more,
Speaker 1: you know, cutting the more consumption of the visword. Right,
Speaker 1: that's Galatica phase. But in the Hyabuza the main change
Speaker 1: will be firstly, insurance of the vessel will be greatly reduced.
Speaker 1: Even considering the current staking situation was staking level, we
Speaker 1: could roughly predicted, you know, forty to fifty percent of
Speaker 1: inflation rate will be reduced. And also the allocation that's
Speaker 1: a that's the most important thing. The allocation of the
Speaker 1: visa or the new issurance issued the visul will be
Speaker 1: only allocated to either validators or either delegators. No more,
Speaker 1: no more users. So basically, in simply words, to say,
Speaker 1: we're kind of burning the candle from both ends. Firstly,
Speaker 1: more demands, more burned, and also cut to the supply.
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, could looking good for the visa
Speaker 1: or valuation.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. And then the other major news I'm really
Speaker 2: excited to talk to you about is V chain steaking
Speaker 2: or VET token steaking via stargate. Tell us about this
Speaker 2: and how it works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the stargate is a tool basically not only
Speaker 1: for delegators but actually also for validators. So we launched
Speaker 1: the stargate in Galatica Galatica Pace in June, and you know,
Speaker 1: people love that and so far we had we already
Speaker 1: have more than twelve thousand NFTs representing the different level
Speaker 1: of delegators and some of the level delegators. Actually the
Speaker 1: big level, you know, with fifty million ves staking is
Speaker 1: quite a competitive. You know, I noticed that there are
Speaker 1: two minium node just getting available, and then just a
Speaker 1: few hours boom, it's gone like people just take it
Speaker 1: right because the high level of delegator that means high apui,
Speaker 1: so you know, people are really chasing after that. And
Speaker 1: also totally six billion vit staking coming from the delegators,
Speaker 1: so the stargate, we'll have the two point zero in December,
Speaker 1: right before the higaboos are launched. There are cool features introduced.
Speaker 1: Give an example, we're going to have more visibility in
Speaker 1: terms of the delegators staking, validator staking. Plus you know,
Speaker 1: the validator have a major change as well in the Hyabuja,
Speaker 1: so no more fixed twenty five minutes staking only you
Speaker 1: will beynamic, so people can choose from twenty five mini
Speaker 1: still maintain the minimum, but up to six hundred that
Speaker 1: so for sure moret taking, you will have more chance
Speaker 1: to produce the blocks. We're also getting more rewards and
Speaker 1: also there is a very interesting function we call boost
Speaker 1: the features. You know right now, when you mint the
Speaker 1: new delegator n FT, you gotta have a maturity time,
Speaker 1: right you got to wait for three days or twenty
Speaker 1: thirty days or forty five days up to sixty days
Speaker 1: for the highest staking. We realize it's kind of blocking
Speaker 1: some of the users when user doesn't really have a patience,
Speaker 1: which is quite common in the crypto word. So we
Speaker 1: we offer the boosting features so you can pay a
Speaker 1: certain amount of whatever visseel better VT to you know,
Speaker 1: getting the maturity time to shotting to be zero. That
Speaker 1: means you can do the delegation right away and also
Speaker 1: the same amount of the time you could use for
Speaker 1: the you know, waiting for the maturity, you can getting
Speaker 1: the rewards right away, and you are getting comparing what
Speaker 1: you're paying for the boosting, and you will get more
Speaker 1: reverse from the same amount of time. Let's put this way,
Speaker 1: and everything you paid to boost your maturity not going
Speaker 1: to be taken by anybody, including the foundation. You will
Speaker 1: be burned right away. So you're not just you know,
Speaker 1: speed up the process, but also you're contributing to the
Speaker 1: whole ecosystem valuation. Basically you are burning tokens by you know,
Speaker 1: enjoy the the reverse right away. That kind of you
Speaker 1: know use cases and in general speaking, the validator is
Speaker 1: actually for institutions. Even there are some let's say long
Speaker 1: term holders, some whales also they go through one of
Speaker 1: our community projects called Redino. You know, Retino already on
Speaker 1: board nineteen validators so far and they're still ongoing or
Speaker 1: major is for the institutions. So recently ki ROC actually
Speaker 1: set up the two validators to join the validator pool
Speaker 1: and delegator is more for the retail people. So as
Speaker 1: long as like like introduced last time, as long as
Speaker 1: you know how to operate the NFT and it just
Speaker 1: kicks youw buttons, then you become the delegators. You directly
Speaker 1: participate the decentralization and you're getting reverse without worrying. You're
Speaker 1: you know, without worrying the safety of your assets. So
Speaker 1: that's the best part of that's really great.
Speaker 2: You mentioned you know a lot of institutions can participate,
Speaker 2: can retail participate or directly or directly, Well.
Speaker 1: That's that's also part of a plan and deliverables in
Speaker 1: terms of the institutional institution on boarding. Right, So recently
Speaker 1: we onboard the Big Go and we also have a
Speaker 1: Retino as you know from the community as a smaller platform.
Speaker 1: So if as a user, let's say, there are there
Speaker 1: are two ways either you you wanted to staking to
Speaker 1: the service provider like bigg and join them to as
Speaker 1: a whole join the BIGOS validator. Let's put this way,
Speaker 1: or you can retinal do it providing a similar service,
Speaker 1: or you can hold in your assets as long as
Speaker 1: you manage to get more than twenty five minut aad.
Speaker 1: You can use retino as a validator as a service. Well,
Speaker 1: actually I heard Bigo is offering the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: called they have a product it's called bring your own Validators,
Speaker 1: which means you as an asset owner, you still control
Speaker 1: your assets, right, you have your VT in your wallet,
Speaker 1: but you basically to delegate to somebody or indorse, some
Speaker 1: no operator to run the validator together. So we call
Speaker 1: it the indorser plus no operator and group together. You
Speaker 1: can have validator round. Sure, you gotta spare, you got
Speaker 1: to pay some of the some of your earnings through
Speaker 1: the service fees, right, but still it's it's low entry
Speaker 1: for anybody wants to be the validator or simply you
Speaker 1: can just be a delegator.
Speaker 2: That's really great. Yeah, that's something I personally want to
Speaker 2: look into, So I'm going to explot that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very cool.
Speaker 2: And then recently there was an announcement of v Chain
Speaker 2: partnering with Franklin Templeton, which is a huge brad frat
Speaker 2: excuse me huge Tradify institution. Tell us about that partnership
Speaker 2: and how you be working together.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard actually, you know, you know all
Speaker 1: of the pr policy. Actually today we read about the
Speaker 1: news Franklin Tempting to have a full collaboration with the
Speaker 1: Bannis as well. Right, it's I always say it's part.
Speaker 1: It's quite unnatural, you know, following the institutions on boarding
Speaker 1: for the more clarity in terms of regulations, those serious
Speaker 1: players coming from the Wall Street. As we discussed the
Speaker 1: last time, it's inevitable. The trend is inevitable. So for us,
Speaker 1: we're actually working on several different partnership with a Franklin Tempting.
Speaker 1: What we can say today, let me see is we
Speaker 1: are on boarding the enterprises to be the Franklin Tempting
Speaker 1: clients as well. We go to the market together. Also,
Speaker 1: for sure we're gonna leverage with blocks technology coming from Vchin.
Speaker 1: We're gonna use the VCHIN blocking as well. It just
Speaker 1: like we didn't finish that yet. So from Franklin Tempting,
Speaker 1: they were like, okay, we're gonna We're gonna be very
Speaker 1: I would even call it the conservative a bit, you know,
Speaker 1: they want to play safe. They don't get any trouble
Speaker 1: from SEC. So that's why they say, okay, well it's down,
Speaker 1: then we can make a proper announcement. But we definitely
Speaker 1: looking for long term relationship with Bitchen. We're gonna go
Speaker 1: to the market together. But the freaking attempting just represent
Speaker 1: one of the examples, right, Like I said, we have
Speaker 1: we have a we have a several category in terms
Speaker 1: of institutions. We do have like a long term investor
Speaker 1: like a key Rock and the validators. Ki Rock also
Speaker 1: do the validators. Actually we have a few institutions on
Speaker 1: the pipeline in the pipeline as well. And also we
Speaker 1: have a service provider like Bigo. They provide a taking
Speaker 1: service to the retail to the institutions they provide bring
Speaker 1: your validators, like I just said, so allow you know,
Speaker 1: even the retail people can without technical capability to run
Speaker 1: a server, they still can be part of the validator
Speaker 1: program enjoy the APIs. And also some of the service
Speaker 1: provider like the tie you know, they have the terminal
Speaker 1: to integrate which actually is done already with v chain
Speaker 1: integrateed with vchin blockchain, so they can provide the business
Speaker 1: insights coming from whatever the data over the Vichin blockchain
Speaker 1: to give more visibility to institutional investors. So simbody to say,
Speaker 1: you know, we down the key Rock, Big Go, the
Speaker 1: Tie Franklin tempton. There are also bunchs of you know,
Speaker 1: institutions on board, which is kind of fitting into the
Speaker 1: whole market vibes right now. You know, from retail to institutions,
Speaker 1: that's the main scene for the crypto market right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing, Sonny, since you know, the genius actors
Speaker 2: passed this current administration here in the United States is
Speaker 2: very pro crypto. We've seen a lot of big names,
Speaker 2: some of the biggest banks coming out saying they want
Speaker 2: to launch crypto trading, launch their own stable coins, tokenizing.
Speaker 2: It's amazing how many institutions are here now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the trend is inevitable. I was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: the crypto marketing now just sitting at four trillion dollars
Speaker 1: as a whole, right big coin is two points something.
Speaker 1: But I always say it's inevitable. Let's say, institution is
Speaker 1: going to be the main force to push up to
Speaker 1: the entire crypto market to another level. And also we
Speaker 1: heard about all of the news like d A TS
Speaker 1: like the collaboration between Franklin Tempt and the Biness and
Speaker 1: also even the arkings Uh the chair of SEC made
Speaker 1: a point in Paris saying like, oh, we'll welcome to
Speaker 1: super app, you know, to aggregate the treating the liquidity,
Speaker 1: the borough and lending all of the different type of
Speaker 1: services into you know, for for the future of the crypto.
Speaker 1: But also on the other side, I would say, based
Speaker 1: on the recent conversation with many institutions, I think what
Speaker 1: we're missing in the entire crypto world. You know, we're
Speaker 1: doing that, but we're kind of one of a very
Speaker 1: few is really driving for mass adoption by utility driven
Speaker 1: like why people use crypto? Right, why people access holding
Speaker 1: the crypto or what do you really invest for? I mean,
Speaker 1: sure everybody looking for profits, looking for you know, old
Speaker 1: go and see them coming up. Honestly, I think it's
Speaker 1: very soon. We know the Federal Reserve is going to
Speaker 1: cut the interest that's like ninety nine percent of the
Speaker 1: chance for sure in the midle of September. So it's
Speaker 1: clear signal following the previous pattern, that's a clear signal
Speaker 1: the boom market is coming up. But also from the
Speaker 1: investor perspective, what do you really invest, what kind of
Speaker 1: value or what kind of the utility those projects are creating?
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is very interesting, I discover most
Speaker 1: of the projects actually getting crowded in a similar track,
Speaker 1: you know, payment stable going, you know, DVI verticals. But
Speaker 1: following another thought, we believe blockchain is going to be
Speaker 1: the Internet two point zero or the Internet, you know,
Speaker 1: the next generation of the Internet. That's why we call
Speaker 1: the web strate from web one, Web two webs rate right,
Speaker 1: So it must be. It cannot be just narrow in
Speaker 1: finance work. It must be every industry is so I
Speaker 1: a would say, our narrative, what we are ever to
Speaker 1: what whatever we're trying to do, you know, from the
Speaker 1: enterprise adoption to the sustainability angle to drive the individual adoptions.
Speaker 1: It's you know, this is going to be a god
Speaker 1: for the next waves. It's just you know, following the logic.
Speaker 1: Financial piplication is very I'm not saying easy, but it's
Speaker 1: very clear, right, and there are loads of the use
Speaker 1: cases already. But everybody is trying to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's a question mark for me. But we
Speaker 1: do have our unique position and we're getting more and
Speaker 1: more attractions, you know from the institutions. They were like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know, I like this kind of story.
Speaker 1: I like long term thinking, like the user grows from
Speaker 1: your ecosystem. And by the way, the V Better just
Speaker 1: reached to more than five minute users right now and
Speaker 1: forty six applications. I think it's almost doubled up since
Speaker 1: last time we talked. And we still get eight to
Speaker 1: ten in the pipeline always so. And as a results,
Speaker 1: as an impact, there are total thirty six million actions
Speaker 1: coming from those five minute users, you know, in acumulated way.
Speaker 1: And you know, we get super exciting about this type
Speaker 1: of redults, and the institutions getting super excited about these
Speaker 1: type of redults. So I would say, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just a matter of time, and we just keep doing
Speaker 1: what we're doing and our time is coming.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah, I was going to ask you, you know,
Speaker 2: speaking utility, how is be Better vworld and and utility
Speaker 2: on that side. So it sounds like there's a lot
Speaker 2: of adoption, a lot of growth in users.
Speaker 1: Yes, like I said, five million users for the six applications,
Speaker 1: soty six million impacts or actions. And recently we just
Speaker 1: launched a new program to even give another boost up.
Speaker 1: We could a v funder program. And also I start
Speaker 1: with my letter, I promised I didn't use the AI
Speaker 1: to write this letter. It's all by me, oh, by myself.
Speaker 1: So basically, I you know, I reflecting. I use all
Speaker 1: of my experiences to be a funder. I've been a
Speaker 1: founder for ten years. You know, time really flies. So
Speaker 1: we find out the biggest challenge is no more just
Speaker 1: technical like how do you build the small countract? How
Speaker 1: do you deliver applications? That's actually quite a easy part,
Speaker 1: especially with support from AI, different type of AI agents.
Speaker 1: It's getting much much easier. However, the biggest challenge so
Speaker 1: far to most of the founders, to most of the
Speaker 1: applications is how do you grow your users? How do
Speaker 1: you iterate your products? You know, I share my philosophy
Speaker 1: as a founder to all of the entrepreneurs, to all
Speaker 1: of the founders in the Vigian community, I said, we
Speaker 1: have a three rules. Number one, you got to pick right.
Speaker 1: You got to find the right track, right industry, right, whatever, AI, whatever, crypto,
Speaker 1: that's a right for sure. No one would have questioned that.
Speaker 1: And also you've got to choose long meaning when you're
Speaker 1: facing the tough divisions like Okay, which way I gotta choose?
Speaker 1: You always think from the loan perspective, long wave perspective.
Speaker 1: But even you pick right, you choose loan, you still
Speaker 1: need to iterate extremely fast.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, So most of the we find the most of
Speaker 1: the common challenges to those founders. It's no more just
Speaker 1: individual developer, build the application and naturally attract to the users. No,
Speaker 1: you got to operate that. You got to do marketing,
Speaker 1: you got to do fund raising, you got to engage
Speaker 1: with the users, you got to manage the communities. There
Speaker 1: are many other stuff. So we launched the v funder
Speaker 1: program to give another actual support looking for real builders,
Speaker 1: real entrepreneurs could build the application to grow with us together.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I love that As an entrepreneur myself,
Speaker 2: I love that that you're kind of helping to incubate
Speaker 2: and helping entrepreneurs and navigate the way. And and you
Speaker 2: said this with BCG that's Boston Consulting Group.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. BCG also play quite an important
Speaker 1: role into that. Basically, we designed the v Founder program together,
Speaker 1: you know, we we actually start with the three applications.
Speaker 1: So basically it was developer and delivered with BTG together,
Speaker 1: So Beach and Foundation BTG together we delivered delivered the
Speaker 1: three applications you know, with a with a starting package,
Speaker 1: which means we already got listed in the VBA LAAU,
Speaker 1: we already got the codes delivered. We already got a
Speaker 1: certain we call it a C users not much a
Speaker 1: few southerns. And also we even finished the integration with
Speaker 1: the AI agent to verify your actions. Right, so it's
Speaker 1: it's running. It's already over there. And even with some
Speaker 1: of the let's say possible future business model designed also
Speaker 1: code designed bit between us and the BTD together, so
Speaker 1: it's it's like we alreadys serve you the prem made dishes.
Speaker 1: What you need to do is just uh, you know,
Speaker 1: putting the microwave and heat it up and you can
Speaker 1: start to eat. So so we we're going to continue
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, to uh, let's say, whatever
Speaker 1: is coming from our departory like a PCs or products
Speaker 1: or even some of the enterprise opportunities. You know, we're
Speaker 1: getting more and more inquiries from the enterprises as well,
Speaker 1: even some of the enterprise opportunities we can put into
Speaker 1: the v funded program, you know, and getting anybody is interesting.
Speaker 1: Devote themselves to the growth of the ecosystem, your own applications.
Speaker 1: Then it's free for you. So it's better than just
Speaker 1: give like one hundred grand for the ground program. And
Speaker 1: you know, money plays one thing, but also we're looking
Speaker 1: for real builders, really devote themselves to builder stuf. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. And I feel like there's going
Speaker 2: to be a lot of people who are going to
Speaker 2: be looking to web three to transition from web to
Speaker 2: Web three, a lot of developers, a lot of entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2: So it's great that you're making it easy for them
Speaker 2: to do that because some of this can be intimidating,
Speaker 2: and you know it's brand new, but if you can
Speaker 2: make it easy, it's yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also the other strategy the focus is, you know,
Speaker 1: getting the infrastructure more and more ready. The last time
Speaker 1: we talked, I think it was March or somewhere, Yeah,
Speaker 1: around the March. Yeah, I think it's another test that
Speaker 1: have face for Galactica. When we talk about that, we said, okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to on board those custodias, you know, infrastructure
Speaker 1: service providers to ease adoptions. Right now, We've got Big Go,
Speaker 1: we got Key rock, we got the Redino. We still
Speaker 1: have a mini in the pipeline. But on the other side,
Speaker 1: you know, try to from the angle like how to
Speaker 1: make it easier for whatever is a small startup or
Speaker 1: big enterprise to join the v better doubt or you know,
Speaker 1: doing any kind of application in the ecosystem. So in
Speaker 1: terms of social logging, in terms of the wallets, in
Speaker 1: terms of custodient service, custudent licenses, those are things who
Speaker 1: are still working on that and getting pretty much very
Speaker 1: close to get it down. And then for anybody whatever
Speaker 1: your traditional enterprise or individual developers or even a small
Speaker 1: startup when you try to join, even you said, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about a crypto, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to build a smart contract. I don't need to
Speaker 1: I don't know how to build the API API to
Speaker 1: call the transaction here and there based on my application logic. Well,
Speaker 1: you can use some established the infrastructure tools to do
Speaker 1: that and they will you know, make the entry point
Speaker 1: even lower. So that's that's everything we do. It's actually
Speaker 1: served to onboard more more entrepreneurs and they were looking
Speaker 1: very much about they success because they success put them together.
Speaker 1: That's reaching success simple.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well said. Also, I know from my show notes
Speaker 2: here that potentially you're working on an AI roadmap, tell
Speaker 2: us a bit about how you're going to integrate AI
Speaker 2: AI agents and much more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually, thats gonna be next Monday, maybe by this
Speaker 1: podcast has been released. You know it's already there, right,
Speaker 1: so I welcome everybody to check it out. That's let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, we are the one of very few keep
Speaker 1: updating the white paper even for the v Better. We
Speaker 1: have this two point zero white paper for vbetter dot
Speaker 1: com as well, Right, so basically introducing AI heavily for
Speaker 1: the next four years or five years row map of
Speaker 1: the v beetter dot com. So ultimately, I would say,
Speaker 1: in my theory, the ultimately utility for crypto it has
Speaker 1: to be with AI. I even have a series say
Speaker 1: the crypto is not designed for human, it's actually designed
Speaker 1: for machine. Right, Well, you get that very easily. Think
Speaker 1: about that, those micro transactions. A human not gonna do that.
Speaker 1: Let's say I owe you one cent. Do you expect
Speaker 1: me to pray you one cent? No? Right, you ask
Speaker 1: for a beer or something, but you're not going to
Speaker 1: expect me to pray you one cent. But the machine
Speaker 1: do all the time for that kind of a fractional data,
Speaker 1: fractional exchange. Machine can process you know, that kind of
Speaker 1: the micro tranactions all the time, right. And also no
Speaker 1: human would expect themselves to process transaction like a thousand
Speaker 1: per day, right, No, but the machine can process a
Speaker 1: thousand tranaction per second. Right. So I would say with
Speaker 1: this kind of the feature, crypto is really designed for machine,
Speaker 1: not for human. However, when we think about the current
Speaker 1: utility of the entire crypto word, the most of the
Speaker 1: utility of the crypto is still between human to human.
Speaker 1: I pay you, I treat it with you, I do
Speaker 1: the borough and lending protocols. It's still human to human, right,
Speaker 1: So what about machine to human or human to machine
Speaker 1: or even machine to machine. So those three scenarios, I
Speaker 1: believe it's you know, with a huge potential with adoptions
Speaker 1: of the different type of applications and the user grows.
Speaker 1: So that's what we described in general in high level
Speaker 1: into this white paper. And actually we better doll and
Speaker 1: all of the extra applications already doing from machine to
Speaker 1: human that type of use case right from a user perspective, Okay,
Speaker 1: I use a recycle mode to do my mak shop.
Speaker 1: But from the application point is okay, I use AI agent,
Speaker 1: verify your actions and I reward you or paid you
Speaker 1: rewards in crypto way, in exchange your data in exchange
Speaker 1: of actions. Right, so the v better and also the
Speaker 1: extra applications is already from machine to human. We're going
Speaker 1: to continue to scale up. We're still aiming twenty million users.
Speaker 1: You know, last time we talked, I think it's we're
Speaker 1: talking about like, oh, we just passed a one million
Speaker 1: user bar. Right now we have two applications past two
Speaker 1: million user bar and we're continue to grow and still
Speaker 1: aiming twenty million user total and one hundred applications as
Speaker 1: our next our as our next milestone. And also we're
Speaker 1: looking for the new possibility how to leverage with AI
Speaker 1: to make the doll governance even better, more accessible, more
Speaker 1: user friendly to anybody. You know, we talk about the
Speaker 1: challenges for most of the doll in the world. The
Speaker 1: dow relies on the governor's voting. But unfortunately not everybody
Speaker 1: is expert on everything, right, but AI can be expert
Speaker 1: on everything. So let's say in the next time, when
Speaker 1: you have a proposal where you can just have an idea,
Speaker 1: you can talk to the AI to work a proposal together,
Speaker 1: even getting the voting process, you know, to make the
Speaker 1: ecosystem better, to make the governance rules better. So those
Speaker 1: are things that really elaborated and described with the deliverables
Speaker 1: in the road map. That's basically our idea. That's also
Speaker 1: not only for the mid term deliverables, but also for
Speaker 1: the long term goals. Eventually we want to build up
Speaker 1: the new Commas word wise enterprise adoption, individual user growth,
Speaker 1: mass adoption from retail users, and they eventually formalize a
Speaker 1: new Commas word with AI agents with a crypto as
Speaker 1: a blood floating around. So basically, you know, that's what
Speaker 1: we jore the first what we jaw the picture in
Speaker 1: the first version of White People back to twent and
Speaker 1: seventeenth and we just you know, take a step by step,
Speaker 1: stage by stage and review what we really do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And it seems to your point. You know,
Speaker 2: as the technology gets more advanced and even humanoid robots
Speaker 2: along with AI agents, they're going to be using crypto
Speaker 2: blockchain rails and to your points of micro micro payments
Speaker 2: and much more so. This is certainly going to be
Speaker 2: a big part of the web ecosystems.
Speaker 1: Well, just just to imagine some of the interesting use
Speaker 1: case right today, if you want to buy a hair dryer,
Speaker 1: what you're going to do? You go to the Amazon,
Speaker 1: you go to the Alibaba, then you search and you
Speaker 1: find the best that you want to do. Or you
Speaker 1: can just talk to your AI agent butler I saying okay,
Speaker 1: I pay you two hundred dollars in crypto, that's my budget,
Speaker 1: get me a high drier a hair dryer next day
Speaker 1: in my house, and then there was such the whole
Speaker 1: world and find the best deal for you, fit your
Speaker 1: requirement and deliver it to you. Right, So those type
Speaker 1: of it's just one of the use cases we were thinking.
Speaker 1: And also they could be one of our community projects
Speaker 1: called Nubila. So they're basically cracking the crime data from
Speaker 1: the decentralized IOG devices as a crime data collector. So basically,
Speaker 1: the centralized AI agent could talk to each IoT devices saying, okay,
Speaker 1: I need the data from Brazil in September, or I
Speaker 1: need a data from Indonesia in August. Right, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna pray you micro transactions for every piece of data
Speaker 1: you upload to me. So it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: machine to machine that kind of use cases. So whatever
Speaker 1: from human too machine or machine to human or machine
Speaker 1: to machine, I would say that will be the new
Speaker 1: value adding or new writing point for the global economy.
Speaker 1: So I believe that's the automated utility of the crypto.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's so fascinating the convergence of these two
Speaker 2: technologies and how they fit with each other. And they're
Speaker 2: going to compliment our lives, like you know, the example,
Speaker 2: you gave up ordering something. You know, currently we talk
Speaker 2: to the Amazons and the Google Alexa and all that stuff, right,
Speaker 2: but it's going to be more advanced to your point,
Speaker 2: it can go out and shop for us, find the
Speaker 2: best deals and do those micro payments where I don't
Speaker 2: have to take out my credit card or anything. It
Speaker 2: just does it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then enterprise and video users they're going to
Speaker 1: formalize the different type of relationship thanks to crypto. Well,
Speaker 1: general speaking, we talk about the Internet is a technology,
Speaker 1: or even AI is a technology for productivity, right, it
Speaker 1: increased the productivity in an unimaginary level. So what are
Speaker 1: the block blockch is actually the technology for new relationship
Speaker 1: like how people work with people, how people work with
Speaker 1: the company work with the association, even work with the government.
Speaker 1: That's what the bloction is, and the crypto is just
Speaker 1: acting as you know, the connecting dots or connecting points
Speaker 1: or basically like a blood flowing into the entire ecosystem
Speaker 1: and make it life. So that's a really exciting future
Speaker 1: for the future, the future application and following the recent
Speaker 1: conversations with many institutions, everybody is looking for that. So
Speaker 1: every time I share our thoughts, what we're trying to,
Speaker 1: what we're doing, what we're delivered, and everybody get their
Speaker 1: own eyes open, like, oh, we should talk more about this.
Speaker 1: I mean, they mentioned about the entire crypto market, right,
Speaker 1: not just the daits, not just the liquidity the big
Speaker 1: money flowing around here and there or price talks. We
Speaker 1: need to talk about the more future of the technology.
Speaker 1: How to go to really go to the mainstream. I
Speaker 1: would say the finance adoptions coming from you know, institutional
Speaker 1: adoption or even we call it the Wall Street adoption. Right,
Speaker 1: you're very close to the Wall Street so you know that.
Speaker 1: So when we talk about the Wall Street adoption, it's
Speaker 1: actually just a first step because that means pretty peering
Speaker 1: the money prepare you know more funds injected to the ecosystem.
Speaker 1: But eventually the money money is smart money will flows
Speaker 1: into whoever got to the utility, whoever got the value,
Speaker 1: whoever can last longer. That's recording investment, right, otherwise it
Speaker 1: will you know, sounds like a batting or gamboardings for
Speaker 1: short term. I'm not exclude to the possibility for the
Speaker 1: short term, but eventually the smartest money the long term,
Speaker 1: you know investment, that's going to be the main scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, well said. You know you mentioned digital asset
Speaker 2: treasury companies earlier. I'm curious when you think about this
Speaker 2: trend and these companies buying different crypto assets, putting it
Speaker 2: on their balance sheets and possibly one that may hold
Speaker 2: VET token soon.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the d T as the new concept
Speaker 1: actually evolves like super fast, right. Micro Strategy was the
Speaker 1: first one holding a bit going and getting much much
Speaker 1: bigger by time, and then come up with the serum,
Speaker 1: then come up with other portfolios. To be honest, I
Speaker 1: received maybe ten to fifteen different type of inquiries to collaborate. Firstly,
Speaker 1: it's really positive to have this kind of the concept
Speaker 1: and also iterating the format very fast. And actually recently
Speaker 1: I just a couple of days ago I heard I
Speaker 1: readed the news SEC start to you know, take a
Speaker 1: close look and even getting a new requirement about those
Speaker 1: deities write whatever you try to increase the or launching
Speaker 1: some secondary offering, you need to have all board members
Speaker 1: or shareholders approval. Those kind of restrictions. I think it's potish,
Speaker 1: it's positive. It's getting more regulated and more you know,
Speaker 1: let's let's say, incentivize or motivate the right guys to
Speaker 1: play the right game, but not just you know, try
Speaker 1: to be in a short term gain or a short
Speaker 1: term gain. Right. So also it kind of opened up
Speaker 1: the funnels to more money to new funds, which they
Speaker 1: are who the who let's say, are not able to
Speaker 1: buy crypto directly, you know, even like the patient funds
Speaker 1: or insurance funds. They're not gonna go to the coin
Speaker 1: base open account and start to buy the They cannot,
Speaker 1: right there are many regulations require them. And they played
Speaker 1: the different strategy way, but investing into the stocks that
Speaker 1: could be that could be an opportunity for them and
Speaker 1: to the project. It kind of opened up the funnel
Speaker 1: to new funds. But also on the other side, I
Speaker 1: think it's just a matter of time. Honestly, when we
Speaker 1: heard about the d A T and they're getting very
Speaker 1: hot too. Now it's just two three months, you know,
Speaker 1: it's extremely fast. How they iterate, right whatever from the
Speaker 1: regulation side or from the player side. Ultimately, I would say,
Speaker 1: you know, following the logic from SEC, the regulators or
Speaker 1: the market, the smartest money we're looking at, Okay, what
Speaker 1: is the real fundamentals of those tokens or for the
Speaker 1: d T stocks as well, like why would I buy
Speaker 1: this stock not buying that stock? Right? So let's say
Speaker 1: it's eventually back to the fundamentals. It's just like any
Speaker 1: kind of investment porfolio. You got to look at for
Speaker 1: the real growth, look for the future business model, what
Speaker 1: kind of the impacts for value you're creating. So eventually
Speaker 1: it's the same thing, it's just a different type of format.
Speaker 1: So in a nutshell, I would say the DAIT is
Speaker 1: getting it's just getting the infrastructure to the traditional market
Speaker 1: rating or being even better than before. And now the
Speaker 1: game or the ball is back to its progress. Hence,
Speaker 1: like what the utility of creating how many users your
Speaker 1: own boarding? Right? Is your model is going to be
Speaker 1: sustainable or not? That kind of question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Yeah, it's going to get
Speaker 2: very competitive, and then you're going to have to invest
Speaker 2: wisely to see which companies doing you know, the best
Speaker 2: strategy and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also that in the future even now getting
Speaker 1: you know, growing like this way, if you're just creating
Speaker 1: a company holding whatever single assets or busket portfolio and
Speaker 1: doing nothing, it's not going to be ideal whatever from
Speaker 1: the regulator point of view or from the market point
Speaker 1: of view.
Speaker 2: Since we last spoke, you know, the Genius Act pass
Speaker 2: was huge with the stable cooin market. We got the
Speaker 2: Clarity Act coming up in the far all, which should
Speaker 2: be really big. The meat and potatoes and a lot
Speaker 2: of the important things of the market. You know, what
Speaker 2: are your thoughts are you anticipating that gets passed? And
Speaker 2: it unlocks a lot of innovation.
Speaker 1: Of course from different type of angles. Firstly, you kind
Speaker 1: of sweep away the cloud on the name in terms
Speaker 1: of crypto and the blockchain. Nobody even talked about the
Speaker 1: SBF anymore, right so, and also that means also the
Speaker 1: enterprise institutions have no any barriers come to the crypto market,
Speaker 1: so they start to first they introduce serious money into
Speaker 1: the market. Secondly, looking for any collaborative opportunity to boost
Speaker 1: up the own business, secure the future positions in the
Speaker 1: very competitive market. And also last one not is I
Speaker 1: think it's very good to today's White House administration of
Speaker 1: President Trump and you know his idea. I think it's
Speaker 1: he's super smart and genius to set up the United States,
Speaker 1: set up the goal to make a United States America
Speaker 1: to be you know, the capital crypto capital of the world. Right,
Speaker 1: and it definitely will lead secure the leading leading position
Speaker 1: of the United States in the high tech basically already
Speaker 1: leading the way in the AI, and secure the position
Speaker 1: of crypto and also plus all of the other high
Speaker 1: tech technologies you're gonna make, you know, simply as to say,
Speaker 1: make a US great again. So it's quite bullish, and
Speaker 1: I think any every other country is gonna follow up.
Speaker 1: They will have to. They have they don't, They're not
Speaker 1: gonna have any choice because eventually the choice will be
Speaker 1: on people's camp right. Think about you know, the country
Speaker 1: like Veninzuela or uh some underdevelopment countries. If the currency
Speaker 1: system not favorable to the users, the people are going
Speaker 1: to choose the stable coin. The people will choose the
Speaker 1: dollars in the different forms, right, So eventually everybody needs
Speaker 1: to catch up, needs to follow the trend because the
Speaker 1: trend is just inevitable. So that and to the crypto guys,
Speaker 1: that means huge amount of the users only imaginary level
Speaker 1: amount of users waiting for you to on board. Then
Speaker 1: you're going to speed up, do your thing, do your products,
Speaker 1: make your technology be usilized by anybody in the world,
Speaker 1: and then you will win. So eventually, I would say again,
Speaker 1: utility will be the king. Hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sunny I came a wait for the day
Speaker 2: when we you know, some of the unchain people say, hey,
Speaker 2: there are a billion people on chain. We hit that
Speaker 2: goal or that marker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, you know, even we talk about I think
Speaker 1: the last time I saw the data, it's four hundred
Speaker 1: million something or five hundred million, less than five hundred
Speaker 1: million total crypto users. Right, but most of the users
Speaker 1: I have to say, still, you know, just be an
Speaker 1: exchange user. Yeah, right, they keep all of that as
Speaker 1: in the exchange they didn't never use the product yourself.
Speaker 1: But I would say it's quite common for any kind
Speaker 1: of new technologies. Right when you think about the dot
Speaker 1: com wave, when you think about the early stage of
Speaker 1: the mobile phone. It's just taking time to grow. But
Speaker 1: the king, the key is still you gotta have some
Speaker 1: application people can use on every day, like people use Google,
Speaker 1: use Amamal, use Facebook now using chat, gibt or gronk
Speaker 1: every day, right, So you've got to have a functionality
Speaker 1: and utilities and the real massive adoption will be there.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just a treeters or investors. And if there's
Speaker 1: no user, and what's the point, right, what's the future? Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, great point. That's why I like, you know the
Speaker 2: better where you're doing things in the real world, you're
Speaker 2: getting rewarded. You're you're connected on chain, right, like we
Speaker 2: talked many times, charging your tesla or using a certain
Speaker 2: type of cup or whatever it is. If once we
Speaker 2: get that into the real world and people say, oh,
Speaker 2: you mean I can earn rewards for things I normally
Speaker 2: do and do better for the environment, you know, I
Speaker 2: think once that connection is there, you're gonna start to
Speaker 2: see a lot of people participating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and eventually all of the web Stree user they
Speaker 1: don't even realize they're using web three yeah, right, they're
Speaker 1: just using the different type of applications or using a
Speaker 1: super application or do this or do that in the application.
Speaker 1: So it's it's just like today, nobody call yourself, call
Speaker 1: themselves like, oh I'm an Internet used. Everybody's in the
Speaker 1: user right, So for webstree is definitely that way. It's
Speaker 1: in havitable.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, great, great analogy there. Final item here any
Speaker 2: updates with Dana White and UFC. I remember seeing a
Speaker 2: video Dana Whites that he bought some VET token.
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's great, man, he's great.
Speaker 1: He went oh ying, he went oh ying as he
Speaker 1: said he actually, you know, do the real thing. I
Speaker 1: noticed some of the community wreathing up the different voice
Speaker 1: saying like oh yeah, you know, you just give that
Speaker 1: token to Danna for free. No, that's not the case.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know before he say that in front
Speaker 1: of the coin desk. I was like, dude, serious. He said, yeah.
Speaker 1: I just ask him, you know, my my man to
Speaker 1: go to the coin base, and I bought the million
Speaker 1: dollars VET from the coinbase. I would say, wow, you
Speaker 1: are a serious advisor. Actually, I believe I really respect
Speaker 1: for that. He said, it's not because I know you.
Speaker 1: I understand your saying. I also try your products before
Speaker 1: I put the serious money into that and agree to
Speaker 1: be your advisor. So it's it's just like think about
Speaker 1: a Warren Buffett, right, he invested heavily in the Coca
Speaker 1: Cola because he loved Coca Cola. He drinks like five
Speaker 1: kins a day even when he over like eighty five
Speaker 1: or ninety years old. That's the right logic to do
Speaker 1: any kind of investment, especially for serious investment. If you
Speaker 1: put let'say, one hundred million dollars in some of the projects,
Speaker 1: you never use the product from the company or from
Speaker 1: the project. I mean, it's really risky, right, So first date,
Speaker 1: then I put his own money as an investor, and
Speaker 1: also he become a really valuable advisor. I cannot disclose
Speaker 1: too many details, but we're working thanks to data, we're
Speaker 1: we're working U opportunity to collaborate with one of the
Speaker 1: biggest players in the market, not the crypto market, in
Speaker 1: the traditional market, in the high tech area, to integrate
Speaker 1: the AI and the crypto even some wearable devices to
Speaker 1: make the user journey even smooth, even easier. So yeah,
Speaker 1: Danna has been like super supportive. Every time I talked
Speaker 1: to him once maybe sometimes once a week, sometimes once
Speaker 1: two weeks. I'm gonna meet him again in October in Vegas.
Speaker 1: And so he has been really you know, only helpful,
Speaker 1: but nothing else. He's helping everything and try his best,
Speaker 1: really try his best to give the answers, give the
Speaker 1: devices or put the right connections enable some of the
Speaker 1: use cases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am really a grateful That's awesome and it's
Speaker 2: great to hear the relationship is going well, Sonny. As
Speaker 2: always a pleasure, and I'm looking forward to the future updates,
Speaker 2: and you know we're gonna do another one maybe in
Speaker 2: another three months and talk about the latest and greatest.
Speaker 2: And I'm looking forward to Monday with the AI News
Speaker 2: launching and this this is gonna be out after Monday,
Speaker 2: but next week for sure. So thank you so much, Sonny.
Speaker 2: Really great stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, always being a super pleasure to talking to you, Tony,
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can get back together very soon.