Speaker 1: Well, hey, how you do it. I'm gonna have a seat.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit. I have to consider Earth
Speaker 1: Lanes very arrogant, especially the scientists of our planet. And
Speaker 1: I say this because other than the UFO community, which
Speaker 1: many people claim are crazy individuals and are seeing things,
Speaker 1: none of our scientists are, you know, except for a handful,
Speaker 1: are even considering that there's other civilizations that are in
Speaker 1: our cosmos, in our close to us in any manner whatsoever,
Speaker 1: and that there's no you know, space, there's no aircraft,
Speaker 1: there's no spacecraft, there's nothing that is interacting with Earth
Speaker 1: Lanes at all. And given them amount of star systems
Speaker 1: and habitable plants that there are in our neighborhood with
Speaker 1: likely civilizations, to consider us the only one in our
Speaker 1: solar system, it's just crazy. And I'm presenting this thought
Speaker 1: to you because my guest today is doctor av Loebe,
Speaker 1: who is returning to the program to discuss his decipherment
Speaker 1: analysis of what he believes was a crash probe in
Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean off the islands of New Guinea approximately
Speaker 1: the year was approximately twenty ten, and he gets so
Speaker 1: much gruff for this from his contemporaries from others in
Speaker 1: this field of astronomy, and it just flabbergasted me, because
Speaker 1: you know, it's like no one has any creativity anymore,
Speaker 1: no one has any consideration of other thoughts. I mean we,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been looking for evidence of ets for
Speaker 1: decades and I think in many cases it's just under
Speaker 1: our nose in the form of probes. This is what
Speaker 1: lobes all about. And we've had them on the show
Speaker 1: a number of times, UAPs which are here currently, and
Speaker 1: this is another huge question. Are they hiding in volcanoes?
Speaker 1: Are they under the ocean. There's a whole phenomenon of
Speaker 1: UAP's UFOs coming out of the ocean. And then, of
Speaker 1: course the other side of it is when we had
Speaker 1: Marion Rednick on the program, he had actually seen and
Speaker 1: had heard about UAPs coming through various stargates where some
Speaker 1: through some kind of an energy exchange. The there's an opening,
Speaker 1: the craft flies through it and it's shot off into
Speaker 1: another location within a few seconds. But it's too it's
Speaker 1: too fantastic we've gotten. And I'm not talking about me,
Speaker 1: because you guys know where I'm at on this stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for more openness. I'm looking for more access
Speaker 1: to this data. I think they They're all over the place.
Speaker 1: I think that our government not only is covering this up,
Speaker 1: I think they're scared shitless. I think they are so
Speaker 1: overwhelmed with these UAPs. And now what do we get
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, on the and on the Eastern Seaboard.
Speaker 1: We get very advanced drones. And some people are saying, no,
Speaker 1: those are Chinese droneses are of American, These are European drones.
Speaker 2: No way.
Speaker 1: Some of these drones. Drones have extremely sophisticated propulsion systems
Speaker 1: and they can do all kinds of weird things that
Speaker 1: look more like a UFO or UAP than they do
Speaker 1: a drone. But what I'm trying to say is for
Speaker 1: our scientific community to just summarily dismiss this is a
Speaker 1: huge mistake, and it's arrogant. It's tremendously arrogant, and it
Speaker 1: really really bothers me. And so today we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about not only interstellar probes to Earth. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about evidence of space junk. And this is another
Speaker 1: topic that is routinely discussed in any of av Loab's books.
Speaker 1: If you saw, if you read Extraterrestrial, if you read
Speaker 1: his first book, Interstellar. He talks about space junk and
Speaker 1: how a civilization perhaps a billion years old, broke up
Speaker 1: or they sent probes out and the probes, their propulsion
Speaker 1: systems faded and they're just floating probes and stuff like
Speaker 1: we would consider plastics and things like that, but in
Speaker 1: the case of an advanced culture would probably be exotic
Speaker 1: metals or exotic composites of some kind that were resilient
Speaker 1: to you know, vacuum, the vacuumust air, vacuumus space. So
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm just disappointed and those who in
Speaker 1: the scientific community who branch out people like doctor John Mack,
Speaker 1: who I knew through the various events that talks he
Speaker 1: gave in San Francisco. This is a guy who's a
Speaker 1: classically trained Harvard psychiatrist, doctor John Mack, and he was
Speaker 1: so fascinated when he encountered a number of patients who
Speaker 1: claimed to have contact with aliens, and in this case
Speaker 1: it was abductions. They were removed from their beds, their homes,
Speaker 1: in some cases their cars, brought up into a craft
Speaker 1: and examined. And for a long time, many many years
Speaker 1: after that book, deduc did people were freaking out that
Speaker 1: this is something that was a horrible traumatic experience. Well
Speaker 1: it is somewhat of a traumatic experience, but what John
Speaker 1: Mack was able to report in his study is that
Speaker 1: many of these people had very positive experience and that
Speaker 1: the offer Wall types of the ets, the aliens, if
Speaker 1: you want to call them, that, actually were very forward
Speaker 1: in their presentation and in their greeting and in their
Speaker 1: meetings with these people and let them know that what
Speaker 1: they were doing was benefiting a higher good. And then
Speaker 1: in some cases they were given some information about where
Speaker 1: their star system was, how the crafts worked, things like that.
Speaker 1: And so we don't hear about this unless you are
Speaker 1: seeking it. It's very rarely in the news. The government
Speaker 1: is totally perplexed on what to do about this. And
Speaker 1: again I started this stream of consciousness by stating that
Speaker 1: I think the government I'm talking about the United States
Speaker 1: government and likely European government as well, are overwhelmed with this.
Speaker 1: They cannot they don't know what to do about it,
Speaker 1: and there's no way around it. They are faced with
Speaker 1: it to the point now where they've been squelching it
Speaker 1: for so many decades and covering it up that I
Speaker 1: think at some point It's just, you know, our brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters from whatever planetary system are just going to say, hey,
Speaker 1: we are here, this is our craft. We come from
Speaker 1: planet X and so forth and so on. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's pretty simplistic, but why not.
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: Remember we've had a number of guests on this program
Speaker 1: who have been talking about what the Department of Defense,
Speaker 1: what NASA has done over the years, and that is
Speaker 1: to ask priests, rabbis, and others in the religious sector
Speaker 1: what their opinion would be if there was a first contact,
Speaker 1: if there was a revelation that there are aliens that
Speaker 1: are here, that they want to get to know us
Speaker 1: better and they want to welcome us to their collective.
Speaker 1: Why ask priests? Why ask people from a dying organization
Speaker 1: known as the church? Why don't you talk to somebody
Speaker 1: who is in social media, somebody who is in the
Speaker 1: face of the of the of the millions of people
Speaker 1: you know, do a survey, Ask ask Facebook, ask Instagram,
Speaker 1: ask Yahoo. What do you think? How would you react,
Speaker 1: what would your opinion be, what would you how would
Speaker 1: you feel? Anyhow, we are going to explore this question
Speaker 1: of extraterrestrial interstellar probes orbiting Earth now crashing through our atmosphere,
Speaker 1: burning up and being collected. And we'll hear details from
Speaker 1: doctor Lobe today on that and also the question of
Speaker 1: first contact. So today's program is evidence for interstellar probes
Speaker 1: to Earth, and my guest is doctor av Lobe. Hey,
Speaker 1: spring is just around the corner where there. It's going
Speaker 1: to be getting better and better as we continue on
Speaker 1: into the year, and this means it's time to think
Speaker 1: about getting away on a vacation. Earth Ancients has the
Speaker 1: best tours you could ever imagine, and we are talking
Speaker 1: about Turkey in summer June twenty second through July second.
Speaker 1: This is our second annual tour to this amazing city.
Speaker 1: We all land and meet in Istanbul and for eleven
Speaker 1: days we tour the most amazing sights in all of
Speaker 1: Middle East. We're talking the underground city of darren Kuru, Kappadocia,
Speaker 1: Go Beckley Tepee and even Carahan Teppy. This is a
Speaker 1: place that is very much off limits to a lot
Speaker 1: of people except Earth Ancients. Our tours are literally half
Speaker 1: fifty percent less than what you typically would pay for
Speaker 1: an all inclusive Lemon Dade tour. With our host Mohammed
Speaker 1: Imbraheim and a variety of archaeologists, geologists and scientists who
Speaker 1: are providing information on the latest discoveries in this part
Speaker 1: of the world. The Earth Ancient's second annual Turkey Tour
Speaker 1: is not to be missed. For the full eight itinerary
Speaker 1: and more information, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash Tours. Click on the banner and you'll see the
Speaker 1: full eight tenerary and all the details. Remember, if you
Speaker 1: want a fantastic tour at half the normal fee, think
Speaker 1: about Earth Agents Tours. We've been doing them for many,
Speaker 1: many years and they are a blast. Earth Agents dot
Speaker 1: Com Forward slash Tours come out and join us. I
Speaker 1: don't know, so it's great to have doctor Avilove with us.
Speaker 1: If you don't remember who he is, you have to remember,
Speaker 1: but let me just give you a reminder. He is
Speaker 1: the author of Extraterrestrial, a fascinating book that we discussed
Speaker 1: a few years ago. He followed that up with a
Speaker 1: wonderful second book, which was called Interstellar, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: learn a little bit about that. Also, the Omaha maua
Speaker 1: fragment or object that was cited off of our our planet.
Speaker 1: We discussed a great deal about that and what we
Speaker 1: were going to talk about today is also a fascinating
Speaker 1: but I want to first before I do that, bring
Speaker 1: alv in. Alvi, great to see you again. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Earth, Ancients.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. In fact, I just signed a
Speaker 2: contract with MIT Press. I'm working on my next book
Speaker 2: which will be about the expedition that we will discuss
Speaker 2: to retrieve the materials from the crash site of the
Speaker 2: first interstellar meteor.
Speaker 1: Wonderful, wonderful. Okay, let let's get right into it. This
Speaker 1: meteor hit the ocean in twenty fourteen in the Pacific Ocean,
Speaker 1: in the New Guinea region of the ocean. So when
Speaker 1: we left off, you were looking for the fans to
Speaker 1: do a analysis. You're going to dredge the bottom, give us
Speaker 1: the highlights. Let's get into it. What happened.
Speaker 2: Well, first thing is I had a zoom call with
Speaker 2: chars Hoskinson and he said you have the money and
Speaker 2: that was one and a half million dollars needed to
Speaker 2: do the expeditions.
Speaker 1: Well then a half million dollars to do the dredging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we had to spend two weeks on site.
Speaker 2: The location was identified by US government CENSORCES. The fireball
Speaker 2: that released about one percent of the Hiroshima atomic bomb
Speaker 2: energy when an object roughly half a meter in size
Speaker 2: collided with Earth at a very high speed. And the
Speaker 2: reason that it was interesting for US is because the
Speaker 2: velocity of this object was so large relative to the
Speaker 2: Sun that it was not bound by gravity to the
Speaker 2: Solar System. It came from outside the Solar System, and
Speaker 2: therefore it's the first recognized interstellar meteor. It appeared in
Speaker 2: a catalog that NASA compiles of meteors that the US
Speaker 2: government sensors on satellites identify because the US is trying
Speaker 2: to monitor any launch of ballistic missiles from the heat
Speaker 2: that they generate. But every now and then there is
Speaker 2: an object that produces an explosion, and in fact, every
Speaker 2: year there is an object the size of a person
Speaker 2: that collides with Earth and results in an atomic explosion
Speaker 2: in our atmosphere, basically as much energy as released by
Speaker 2: the Hiroshima bomb, and we don't talk about it. It
Speaker 2: doesn't appear in the news because those explosions usually happen
Speaker 2: high at a very high altitude, and they don't damage
Speaker 2: anything on the ground, and you know, most of the
Speaker 2: time they occur above the oceans, twenty one percent of
Speaker 2: the surface of the Earth is not. But in this
Speaker 2: case the object was exploded only twenty kilometers above the
Speaker 2: ocean surface, and that meant that it was unusually tough,
Speaker 2: tougher than all other meteors reported in the NASA catalog,
Speaker 2: hundreds of them, and moreover, even outside the Solar System.
Speaker 2: It was moving at sixty kilometers per second, faster than
Speaker 2: ninety five percent of the stars in the vicinity of
Speaker 2: the Sun. And so I was wondering whether it's a
Speaker 2: voyager like meteor or you know. On January second this year,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, an amateur astronomer recognized a point of
Speaker 2: light coming close to Earth and classified it as a
Speaker 2: near Earth object, an asteroid. And as soon as that
Speaker 2: was reported, a few scientists realize, actually, this object has
Speaker 2: the orbital parameters of the Tesla Roads, the car that
Speaker 2: Elon Musk launched in twenty eighteen as a dummy payload
Speaker 2: on the Falcon Heavy. So it was not an asteroid.
Speaker 2: It was actually a technological object the car, and maybe
Speaker 2: this meteor from a decade ago was also technological, maybe
Speaker 2: some space trash. So I wanted to check that. So
Speaker 2: I announced our intention to go on an expedition, and
Speaker 2: then came the funding and we had an exceptional team
Speaker 2: on a ship called the Silver Star that we stopped.
Speaker 1: You one second, a can you explain why we should
Speaker 1: care about what you defined as an interstellar object versus
Speaker 1: just a meteor that we must be bombarded constantly by meteors?
Speaker 1: This is interstellar, which is a whole different definition. Give
Speaker 1: us a little background.
Speaker 2: On that, right, So, never before was an object colliding
Speaker 2: with Earth identified as coming from outside the Solar System,
Speaker 2: because I mean, we are bombarded by rocks from the
Speaker 2: main asteroid belt. You know, there is a region of
Speaker 2: the Solar System where there are plenty of rocks leftover
Speaker 2: from the formation of the time of the Solar System,
Speaker 2: but also as a result of collisions among various proto planets.
Speaker 2: And then we see that in fact, with the web
Speaker 2: telescope very recently, rocks all the way down to ten
Speaker 2: meters were identified just from the heat that they emit
Speaker 2: with the web telescope that is extremely sensitive, and so
Speaker 2: we see this reservoir of rocks in our backyard. It's
Speaker 2: just like when you own a home, you have a backyard.
Speaker 2: Sometimes if you're not in a city and you can
Speaker 2: find rocks there, so we have that as part of
Speaker 2: the Solar System. These are familiar objects and they are
Speaker 2: triggering every now and then a meteor appearance in our
Speaker 2: sky when they collide with Earth as the Earth moves
Speaker 2: around the Sun. So these are regular occurrences. What was
Speaker 2: specially about this one is the object was moving so
Speaker 2: fast relative to the Sun that it cannot be bound
Speaker 2: to the Solar System. It must have arrived from outside
Speaker 2: because gravity is not strong enough for the Sun to
Speaker 2: trap it. And so that was the first time we
Speaker 2: noticed a meteor reported with such a high speed, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to check whether it's potentially technological in origin.
Speaker 2: Just imagine voyager leaving the Solar System and eventually colliding
Speaker 2: with another planet. It would appear as a meteor. So
Speaker 2: we went there and we used the sled with magnets
Speaker 2: on both sides. We placed it on the ocean floor,
Speaker 2: which is about a mile deep at that location, and
Speaker 2: then we went back and forth twenty six times across
Speaker 2: the region of about seven miles where the explosion took place.
Speaker 2: And then we recovered magnetic particles that were very different
Speaker 2: from the background sand, and then looked like molten droplets
Speaker 2: potentially from a meteor, eight hundred and fifty of them,
Speaker 2: and I brought the materials back to the laboratory of
Speaker 2: my colleague at Harvard University is stein Jacobson, and we
Speaker 2: also analyzed them at the Brooker Corporation in Berlin with
Speaker 2: an X ray fluorescence analyzer. But at any event, in
Speaker 2: stein Jacobson's lab, we studied the composition, the chemical composition
Speaker 2: of those spherals, and we found that eighty percent of
Speaker 2: them belonged to materials from the solar system that was
Speaker 2: seen before, but then twenty percent looked different. And then
Speaker 2: out of those half have a chemical composition that does
Speaker 2: not resemble solar system materials. And those are the ones
Speaker 2: that we flagged as potentially from outside the solar system.
Speaker 2: They had a very high abundance of beryllium, lanthanum, uranium,
Speaker 2: and then we call them Belao spherals or fragments. And
Speaker 2: what we are planning to do next I just met
Speaker 2: with stein Jacobson in his research assistant Eugenia Young, and
Speaker 2: I received funding for us to continue to work for
Speaker 2: the next twelve months where we will look at the
Speaker 2: isotopes that make those unusual fragments and try to figure
Speaker 2: out their age, for example, because if we can date them,
Speaker 2: then we can tell conclusively whether they came from the
Speaker 2: Solar System or outside of the Solar System, because any
Speaker 2: material from another star would have a different age. And
Speaker 2: the way to tell the age is by using isotopes
Speaker 2: that decay after some time, and from that you can
Speaker 2: use them as clocks. So that's what we are planning
Speaker 2: to do in the coming months. But in addition to that,
Speaker 2: we want to find bigger fragments, bigger pieces of the
Speaker 2: original object by having a second expedition, and that will
Speaker 2: cost six and a half million dollars because now we
Speaker 2: will need to put a robot, a remotely operated vehicle
Speaker 2: on the ocean floor with a video feed. You know,
Speaker 2: previously we did it blindly. We collected materials without seeing
Speaker 2: what we are collecting. But now we want the robot
Speaker 2: to actually pick up pieces in the region that look interesting.
Speaker 2: And so at the moment I'm seeking funding for this,
Speaker 2: we need to make a down payment. We have a
Speaker 2: ship that is ready for us to use in August
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, but we need to put a down
Speaker 2: payment of a million dollars and I'm waiting for a thunder.
Speaker 2: Any person that comes forward to fund this could come
Speaker 2: with us to the expedition site and see what we find.
Speaker 2: We can give that person priority being first to see
Speaker 2: what we are finding.
Speaker 1: Oh, they can come along on the ship. Yes, oh wonderful.
Speaker 1: Do you have any of course, it's hard to tell
Speaker 1: the original dimension of this. I'm just going to call
Speaker 1: it a probe or a meteor. But as you're I mean,
Speaker 1: what do you suspect is this another amount mala?
Speaker 2: No, it's a smaller object or moa was a different
Speaker 2: object that came within a sixth of the Earth's sun separation.
Speaker 2: It didn't collide with Earth. It was just passing by,
Speaker 2: and it was much bigger. It was one hundred meters
Speaker 2: in size and looked very strange because the amount of
Speaker 2: sunlight that was reflected from it changed by a factor
Speaker 2: of ten as it was stumbling, and so the most
Speaker 2: likely shape that it had was that of a pancake,
Speaker 2: a flat object, a disc. So that was a different object,
Speaker 2: also interstellar, because it was moving faster than needed to
Speaker 2: escape from the Sun's gravity. This object, based on the
Speaker 2: amount of light that it generated in the explosion, we
Speaker 2: can say that it was at least half a meter
Speaker 2: in size, much smaller than but at least half a meter.
Speaker 2: We know that half a meter of it evaporated probably
Speaker 2: during the explosion, but whether it had a bigger core
Speaker 2: or not, we don't know. For that, we need to
Speaker 2: go to the site and look at the wreckage there.
Speaker 2: And you know, if these kind of sizes are the
Speaker 2: kind of spacecraft that we launched in the past. If
Speaker 2: you think about Voyager one, Verger two, Pioneer ten, Pioneer eleven,
Speaker 2: New Horizons, you know, these are spacecraft making their way
Speaker 2: out of the Solar System, and they were roughling in
Speaker 2: this boardpark of size you know of older meters and
Speaker 2: therefore you know, on the other hand, if you think
Speaker 2: about that was bigger than even Starship, the biggest rocket
Speaker 2: that we are planning to use. Uh And so what
Speaker 2: was is still unresolved. I tend to think that it
Speaker 2: may have been, for example, an empty trash bag object
Speaker 2: like a very thin film that maybe was torn apart
Speaker 2: from a bigger structure. Maybe it's a broken piece of
Speaker 2: some megastructure like a Dyson sphere that will break up
Speaker 2: if if the star that that it surrounds evolves and
Speaker 2: eventually breaks it apart. So to me could have been
Speaker 2: space trash from another civilization. But you know their trash
Speaker 2: is out, sure it will tell us something important. So
Speaker 2: actually it's very difficult to observe anymore any longer because
Speaker 2: it's already very far away. But the Ruben observed there
Speaker 2: will be a new observatory in Chile called the Rubin
Speaker 2: Observatory that will employ a camera with three point two
Speaker 2: gigapixels this year, and we'll start to survey the southern
Speaker 2: sky every four nights, and it could find and more
Speaker 2: and more like object every few months given its sensitivity.
Speaker 2: So I very much look forward to finding family members
Speaker 2: often more and more. You see. The point is mainstream
Speaker 2: scientists can deny that Tomomo was weird. They keep saying, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a rock of a type that we've never seen before,
Speaker 2: or they say maybe it's a dark comet, you know,
Speaker 2: a comet that we can't see the commentary tale off.
Speaker 2: So it was propelled just by cometary tale that is invisible.
Speaker 2: But once we have good enough data about another object
Speaker 2: like and we can look at it with the web telescope,
Speaker 2: you know, once we have a lot of data, it
Speaker 2: should be impossible to imagine things that don't exist. If
Speaker 2: it looks different than a rock, we will know it.
Speaker 2: And that's what I want to find out with the
Speaker 2: Rubin observatory data that will come soon.
Speaker 1: Why though your colleagues have such a problem with the
Speaker 1: possibilities of these being a et probe? Why is it?
Speaker 1: I mean, this is getting out ahead avy and we're
Speaker 1: not even talking about UAPs, which we actually see. We're
Speaker 1: talking about these perhaps probes that, according to you, could
Speaker 1: be a billion years old.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's because the significance of finding something like
Speaker 2: that would be great. And when I came up with
Speaker 2: this suggestion about a lot of attention from the public,
Speaker 2: from the media, and you know in academia, the strongest
Speaker 2: force is jealousy. So when people see a lot of attention,
Speaker 2: they try to step on it, suppress it, say bad
Speaker 2: things about whoever talks about it. It's basically out of jealousy.
Speaker 2: They want the attention to themselves. They don't want anyone
Speaker 2: to pay attention to what someone else is talking about.
Speaker 2: That's the first order reason for why there is a
Speaker 2: lot of pushback. It's basically jealousy for that attention. But
Speaker 2: the other thing is that you know, it's risky to
Speaker 2: talk about something new. It's much safer to talk about
Speaker 2: things that everyone talked about in the past. So you
Speaker 2: would rather, as an expert, quote unquote, you would rather
Speaker 2: say that anything in the sky must be a rock
Speaker 2: rather than an extraterrestor technological gudget, because you're taking a
Speaker 2: risk if you were to consider that. But I should
Speaker 2: say that even the telescope that discovered the mmoire, you know,
Speaker 2: a few years later, it found another object that was
Speaker 2: pushed by reflecting sunlight, and that ended up being a
Speaker 2: rocket booster from nineteen sixty six. It's called twenty twenty
Speaker 2: s oh and so it found a technological object that
Speaker 2: NASA produced, and originally it thought maybe it is a
Speaker 2: comet or a dark comet. So I think we should
Speaker 2: take it with a grain of salt. And what happens
Speaker 2: in the mainstream is that experts always want to argue
Speaker 2: that there is nothing new, that everything we see represents
Speaker 2: the past knowledge, because that's the way they maintain their
Speaker 2: stature in the field. Imagine if there is space trash
Speaker 2: from other civilizations out there, and what they called dark
Speaker 2: comets will end up being technological artifacts. Obviously, it will
Speaker 2: be embarrassing for them, so they will try to resist
Speaker 2: it as much as possible. And you know this is
Speaker 2: not new because yes day, actually we had a very
Speaker 2: interesting event celebration of art and science in my office
Speaker 2: at Harvard. One of the most accomplished sculptors in the
Speaker 2: United States, his name is Greg Wyatt, created a sculpture
Speaker 2: of Galileo Galilei looking at the four moons of Jupiter.
Speaker 2: That's what convinced Galileo that the Earth is not at
Speaker 2: the center of the universe because the moons are orbiting Jupiter,
Speaker 2: not the Earth. And so he just made a sculpture,
Speaker 2: Greg Wyatt, and he brought it to my office. He
Speaker 2: donated it to me, and we had a beautiful event
Speaker 2: in which we also had a historian of science talk
Speaker 2: about the life and research of Galileo Galilei and her
Speaker 2: name is Hannah Marcus and she's a professor in his
Speaker 2: of science and she described how much, how many difficulties
Speaker 2: Galileo had proposing this. And you know, in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: two the Vatican admitted that Galileo was right. That was
Speaker 2: two decades after we reached the moon, and it's a
Speaker 2: bit late. In nineteen ninety two, you know, more than
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty years after the death of Gallel
Speaker 2: to admit that he was right. So, you know, you
Speaker 2: can see it across the history of science many times
Speaker 2: over and over again, the ideas that turned out to
Speaker 2: be right were resisted very strongly by the mainstream at
Speaker 2: the time, simply because they represented new knowledge. But the
Speaker 2: good news about physics is that it relies on evidence,
Speaker 2: on data. It's a learning experience, and we should be
Speaker 2: humble to pay attention to anomalist. You know, we should
Speaker 2: not dismiss them the way the experts quote and quote
Speaker 2: are doing. We should look at anomalists because it's an
Speaker 2: opportunity to learn something new. That's all I'm saying. But
Speaker 2: in answer to your question, you know, it's it's a
Speaker 2: very common occurrence in the history of science for those
Speaker 2: proposed new ideas to get rebuffed and and and then
Speaker 2: even get personal attacks. You know, at least I'm not
Speaker 2: in house arrest, you know. The way, Galilo, We're going to.
Speaker 1: Take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to
Speaker 1: identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today,
Speaker 1: doctor Avy Lowe, community US from Harvard University and the
Speaker 1: Astronomy department will be right back.
Speaker 3: A culticate. Dame well love moment any skills. I'm making
Speaker 3: things so oh in my mind because I analyze their
Speaker 3: body language. I hear have change in their tongue. Maybe
Speaker 3: they hate me, so blame me.
Speaker 1: Astrophysicist doctor Avy Loeb is my guest today. He is
Speaker 1: coming to us from Harvard University in the United States,
Speaker 1: and he is discussing the analysis of this probe that
Speaker 1: landed in the ocean in I guess twenty fourteen, and
Speaker 1: most importantly, what was the chemical makeup of this foreign object? Well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to mention that because when we first talked,
Speaker 1: you said that you refuse use to sign a non
Speaker 1: disclosure agreement. I think it was with the Department of Defense.
Speaker 1: This is many, many years ago when you started your work,
Speaker 1: and I would think that as a scientist, if you
Speaker 1: find exotic metals from this fragment, that would be something
Speaker 1: that would people would be rejoicing, you know.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I should say that I also initiated the
Speaker 2: Galileo project. I'm leading a Galileo project at Harvard University.
Speaker 2: We built an observatory that looks at the unidentified anomalous phenomena,
Speaker 2: basically monitoring the entire sky in the infrared, optical, radio,
Speaker 2: and audio. And we already published a report about half
Speaker 2: a million objects in the first five months of the
Speaker 2: operation of this This is the commissioning data, and then
Speaker 2: we are using machine learning software artificial intelligence to analyze
Speaker 2: the data and look for any objects that are not familiar,
Speaker 2: that are different than drones, balloons, airplanes, you know things
Speaker 2: we know about satellites, and now we are I received
Speaker 2: funding to build the two additional observatories, one in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: and the second one in Nevada, So altogether, by summer
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, we'll have three observatories operating and we
Speaker 2: will get data on millions of objects in the sky.
Speaker 2: And even if one in a million happens to be extraterrestrial,
Speaker 2: you know, that would be big news. Now, of course
Speaker 2: it's possible. The US government has already some data and
Speaker 2: the materials the world testimony is in front of the
Speaker 2: US Congress about it. I would actually love to know
Speaker 2: about it because it will save me time. But my
Speaker 2: point is that you know, the sky is not classified,
Speaker 2: the oceans are not classified, and the astronomers have been
Speaker 2: looking at the sky for many centuries. So since Galileo
Speaker 2: using telescopes and so we don't need to rely on
Speaker 2: government regarding what lies outside the Solar system. You know,
Speaker 2: their day job is national security. My day job is
Speaker 2: to figure out whether we are alone or not, whether
Speaker 2: there is a partner out there. And you know, we
Speaker 2: already know something that previous generations of scientists did not know,
Speaker 2: like Carl Sagan didn't know that. We know that at
Speaker 2: least a few percent of the stars in the Milky
Speaker 2: Way galaxy have a planet the mass of the Earth
Speaker 2: within the same separation as Earth is from the Sun.
Speaker 2: And that means that there are tens of billions of
Speaker 2: systems like the Earth and the Sun within the Milky
Speaker 2: Way Galaxy alone, and these systems, you know, if you
Speaker 2: just if you maintain a humble approach and say that
Speaker 2: we are not special or unique, and things like us
Speaker 2: could have existed, you know, billions of years ago, just
Speaker 2: because most of the stars are older than the Sun.
Speaker 2: You know, we know that most of the stars are
Speaker 2: billions of years other than the Sun, So there could
Speaker 2: have been things like us billions of years ago. And
Speaker 2: guess what the voyager spacecraft in a billionaeres will be
Speaker 2: on the other side of the Milky Way galaxy, So
Speaker 2: there was plenty of time for voyager like spacecraft, for
Speaker 2: space trash to come to our backyard from the other
Speaker 2: side of the Milky Way, and they would accumulate. You know,
Speaker 2: these objects would accumulate just like plastics in the ocean
Speaker 2: over billions of ears, because they're bound by gravity to
Speaker 2: the Milky Way galaxy.
Speaker 1: When you consider, and I think you said twenty percent
Speaker 1: of the fragments you picked up from the ocean were unusual,
Speaker 1: is it your belief that some of these are composites,
Speaker 1: exotic metals that may have been used for the body
Speaker 1: of a probe of some kind.
Speaker 2: Well, so we found the chemical composition, but it's challenging
Speaker 2: to say exactly what the origin was. Just imagine taking
Speaker 2: a laptop and throwing it to a fireplace. You will
Speaker 2: get more than droplets of unusual composition, but you can't
Speaker 2: really tell that it was technological in origin until you
Speaker 2: find bigger pieces. And that's what we aim to do
Speaker 2: in the next expedition. That's exactly the reason. In order
Speaker 2: to figure out the nature of the object, we need
Speaker 2: bigger pieces that were not melted altogether, there is something
Speaker 2: left from the original object. So that's what we want
Speaker 2: to find in the next expedition, and for that we
Speaker 2: need some seed funding right now.
Speaker 1: It needs some serious funding, So those of you listening
Speaker 1: will present some details at the end of this interview
Speaker 1: to see what we can help can do to help
Speaker 1: Auv and his research. You mentioned artificial intelligence. Are you
Speaker 1: able to or one of your students able to actually
Speaker 1: program the intelligence to look and diagnose and perhaps retrieve
Speaker 1: data that you can't find.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what we are doing because we have
Speaker 2: a very large data set and it would take a
Speaker 2: human a lot of time to go through it. So
Speaker 2: we are training the artificial the AI systems to look
Speaker 2: for objects that are familiar and label those that are unidentified,
Speaker 2: and this would be extremely important. Now. One of the
Speaker 2: frontiers in AI right now is using data from different modalities,
Speaker 2: different probes. So for example, the human brain is using
Speaker 2: data from vision and from audio and you and combines
Speaker 2: it to get a sense of what we see. And
Speaker 2: that is one of the frontiers right now in AI,
Speaker 2: combining data from different sensors, different modalities, and we have
Speaker 2: an acoustic detector audio, we have infred. We have optical
Speaker 2: and radio, so we hope to develop the tools that
Speaker 2: would allow us to use all of them together, and
Speaker 2: that's something we are doing now right now, with the
Speaker 2: team that works on AI. I should also mention that
Speaker 2: Elon Musk commented that, you know, the humanity needs to
Speaker 2: go to Mars because we are probably alone. And after
Speaker 2: the elections, Peter Till suggested he said on a podcast,
Speaker 2: nobody should bet against Elon mask nobody should bet against Elon,
Speaker 2: and the following day I placed the bet against Elon.
Speaker 2: I put it in a an essay on medium dot
Speaker 2: com where I said, look, the tens of billions of
Speaker 2: stars with an earthlike planet next to them, just in
Speaker 2: the Milky Way galaxy alone, and you know a trillion
Speaker 2: galaxies in the observable universe and many more beyond the
Speaker 2: cosmic horizon. I'm willing to bet that something like us
Speaker 2: existed billions of years ago in the Milky Way galaxy.
Speaker 2: And I'm willing to put one percent of my net
Speaker 2: worth forward. If Elon is willing to put one percent
Speaker 2: of his net worth into a pool of money, that
Speaker 2: will be four billion dollars, taking his par much less
Speaker 2: from my path but we can use that money to
Speaker 2: search for any technological debris that came from another civilization
Speaker 2: within the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. In fact,
Speaker 2: a week ago I published submitted a paper that describes
Speaker 2: what kind of a space telescope can find such interstellar
Speaker 2: objects as they come close to the Sun. Because the
Speaker 2: Sun is a lamp post that illuminates the darkness of space,
Speaker 2: and when an object comes close to the Sun, we
Speaker 2: can see it very clearly. So I designed the parameters
Speaker 2: of a space telescope. It just needs to have less
Speaker 2: than a meter in size a mirror. And if we
Speaker 2: were to have this bet with Elin within a decade,
Speaker 2: that should be able to report whether there are any
Speaker 2: technological artifacts among all the objects that come into the
Speaker 2: Solar System to our vicinity. And you know, if we
Speaker 2: don't find anything, this amount of money, or four billion dollars,
Speaker 2: is actually less than was invested in the search for
Speaker 2: dark matter. And we haven't found the nature of dark
Speaker 2: matters so yet. And I say that the public cares
Speaker 2: much more about whether we are a loan then what
Speaker 2: is the nature of dark metal. So it makes a
Speaker 2: lot of sense to put a similar amount of money
Speaker 2: in the search for technological debris, space trash, or even
Speaker 2: functioning devices. And so I very much hope that this
Speaker 2: bet will get to the attention of Elon and that
Speaker 2: he will take me on it because I know exactly
Speaker 2: what needs to be done if we have the money. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love that, And I'm also willing to put another
Speaker 2: percent of my net worth to his account if we
Speaker 2: don't find anything.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that challenge, Abby. I think
Speaker 1: it's fantastic. When we talked last, you had mentioned that
Speaker 1: one of yours you asked one of your students to
Speaker 1: go to the d D charts and find He found
Speaker 1: this twenty fourteen medior. Will the artificial intelligence, if you
Speaker 1: program it in such a way, be able to look
Speaker 1: at those charts and find other interstellar probes that have
Speaker 1: perhaps come into the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's exactly what the postoc of mine is
Speaker 2: now doing. A postoc within the Galileo project that I'm leading,
Speaker 2: develops AI models to identify interstellar objects from the data
Speaker 2: that will come to our attention from any telescope, any
Speaker 2: including the Rubin Observatory. So he actually is using AI
Speaker 2: to improve the efficiency of finding such objects. Exactly to
Speaker 2: your point.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's excellent. I have to ask this, and you've
Speaker 1: already brought it up. We when we have so many
Speaker 1: of these UAP sidings un identified area of an hour
Speaker 1: of sightings, do you even consider or get involved or
Speaker 1: does the Galileo Project even have a division that is like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is very anomalous. We need to look a little
Speaker 1: closer here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm getting reports from people every day. But
Speaker 2: in addition to that, for example, there was there were
Speaker 2: the reports about the New Jersey drones and about some
Speaker 2: other interesting sites. And we are basically looking at the
Speaker 2: information that we receive and deciding whether to send a
Speaker 2: set of instruments to detect whatever is being claimed if
Speaker 2: it looks sufficiently intriguing. As you know, the White House
Speaker 2: suggested that the New Jersey drones were human made and
Speaker 2: in fact fully understood, and so there was nothing unusual
Speaker 2: about those drones. It didn't come from an adversarial nation,
Speaker 2: according to an announcement that came from President Trump. But
Speaker 2: I mean, and you know, these drones were also behaving
Speaker 2: like drones. There were not anomalous in the flight characteristics,
Speaker 2: so that was not surprising. But there are reports all
Speaker 2: the time about unidentified anomalous phenomenon. If we have an
Speaker 2: opportunity to look for them, we will do that.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you could adjust your telescopes to actually look
Speaker 1: at something that's perhaps orbiting the planet.
Speaker 2: Well, we have those observatories, the one that we have
Speaker 2: right now operating at Harvard University, but then two others
Speaker 2: that we will set in Pennsylvania and Nevada. There might
Speaker 2: be a fourth one in Indiana and communication with people
Speaker 2: that are willing to fund it. But these are stationary observatories.
Speaker 2: They are fixed in their location. However, we developed some
Speaker 2: set of cameras and sensors that we can deploy on
Speaker 2: a truck or bring with us us in a suitcase,
Speaker 2: and those are the ones that those mobile ones are
Speaker 2: the ones that we can carry to places that are
Speaker 2: of great interest.
Speaker 1: Amazing, you know, it's funny. I think of what you're doing,
Speaker 1: which is analyzing fragments from these meteors. Do you have
Speaker 1: a protocol to actually look at like impact craters to
Speaker 1: see if they're they could have fragments or even the
Speaker 1: meteors that we have that we know are metals. Are
Speaker 1: you going, I mean that's crazy. Of course you need
Speaker 1: a whole team or whole legion of researchers to support you.
Speaker 1: But is that a consideration.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a very interesting point. But the thing is
Speaker 2: right now, we use the speed of the object to
Speaker 2: figure out whether it came from outside the Solar system.
Speaker 2: So if we just have a crater, we can't truly
Speaker 2: tell at what speed the object came because the size
Speaker 2: of the crater is dictated by the amount of energy
Speaker 2: carried by the object, and the energy depends on its
Speaker 2: mass and its speed. And since we have no knowledge
Speaker 2: the independent knowledge of the mass of the object, you
Speaker 2: just know how much energy came in without knowing what
Speaker 2: was the speed. And because there is this the generesy,
Speaker 2: you can trade speed for more mass or vice versa.
Speaker 2: And so if we just have craters or meteorites that
Speaker 2: are recovered, we can't really tell where they came from. However,
Speaker 2: if we examined, for example, interstellar meteors, where we had
Speaker 2: velocity information because the US government, for example, monitored them
Speaker 2: before they hit the air, so we know their speed
Speaker 2: or after they hit their in those cases, we know
Speaker 2: their interstellar and we analyze the materials from them that
Speaker 2: would allow us to find the fingerprints of interstellar meteors.
Speaker 2: So once we know what interstellar meteors look like in
Speaker 2: terms of their structure composition, then we can go back
Speaker 2: to all these collections of meteorites and see which meteorites
Speaker 2: resemble those that we know are interstellar.
Speaker 1: You see, it sounds like a future project.
Speaker 2: That's a future product. But before getting there, we need
Speaker 2: to look at the ones that we have velocity information about,
Speaker 2: and like the meteor from twenty fourteen that we went after.
Speaker 2: So that's why this work is important, because if we
Speaker 2: find the fingerprints of interstellar we will then look for
Speaker 2: those fingerprints among the meteorites for which we don't know
Speaker 2: the velocity.
Speaker 1: The speed is your theory that it's simply space junk
Speaker 1: that you're looking for, or are you going out and
Speaker 1: a little bit of a lemon saying, we are also
Speaker 1: looking for potential alien probes who are seeking out somezation.
Speaker 2: Well with the observatories that we have, we're looking for
Speaker 2: objects that are flying in the atmosphere. These are these
Speaker 2: need to be functional devices. They cannot be just the
Speaker 2: brick colliding with Earth because otherwise they will burn up
Speaker 2: as meteors. Okay, and so in the context of interstellar meteors,
Speaker 2: like the expedition that we took. The assumption is that,
Speaker 2: you know, if it is technological, it's not functioning. It's
Speaker 2: not functional anymore. It just collided with Earth. And if
Speaker 2: you think about the probs that we launched, like a voyager,
Speaker 2: they will not be functional. Once voyager exits from the
Speaker 2: Solar System, it will be in ten thousand years. The
Speaker 2: equipment will not be working. So it will collide with
Speaker 2: a planet like the Earth the way that a rock does,
Speaker 2: except it will be of very different material strength than
Speaker 2: a rock. It would look like a rock of a
Speaker 2: type that might call have never seen before, you know,
Speaker 2: just like if the Tesla roads the cover to collide
Speaker 2: with Earth in twenty million years, which is quite possible, actually,
Speaker 2: it would look like a rock that was never seen before.
Speaker 2: And so for those interstellar meteors, that's the approach. But
Speaker 2: if they don't collide with Earth, you know, then we
Speaker 2: need to study their composition in a different way.
Speaker 1: I got you. We're gonna take another short break to
Speaker 1: allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return
Speaker 1: shortly with my guest today, doctor Avy Lobe, discussing space
Speaker 1: probes and other foreign objects. We'll be right back with you.
Speaker 1: The question our guest today is posing, are there probes
Speaker 1: that are visiting our planet, our neighboring planets from outside
Speaker 1: of our galaxy? And what does this mean for us?
Speaker 1: Is this something we should be paying attention to? All Right?
Speaker 1: So you go out, you got your six million dollars,
Speaker 1: You're going out again in August. You you dredge the water,
Speaker 1: you pull up a machine. How does that change our evolution?
Speaker 1: How do we I think it profoundly changes our understanding
Speaker 1: if you qualify what you have as a machine. But
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know what your feelings are about the
Speaker 1: vulging a machine an alien origin to Earth lanes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's think of the Tesla Roads the car
Speaker 2: as an example. Calculations show that it may collide with
Speaker 2: Earth in twenty millionaears. Okay, so suppose it were to
Speaker 2: collide with Earth, it would appear as a meteor, There
Speaker 2: will be a fire borer, and then whatever remains in
Speaker 2: the core of that car may sink down to the
Speaker 2: ocean floor. Now, my colleagues would argue there is nothing
Speaker 2: unusual about it because it's bound to the Solar System.
Speaker 2: It's probably a rock it looked a bit strange, but
Speaker 2: it's just another asteroid. But if there would be in
Speaker 2: twenty millionaires a curious scientist that would say, no, I
Speaker 2: want to check it out because it showed material strength.
Speaker 2: It actually exploded very low in the atmosphere, and it
Speaker 2: showed material strength that is much tougher and all rocks.
Speaker 2: Then what that person would find is, perhaps, you know,
Speaker 2: the core of the car lying on the ocean floor. Okay,
Speaker 2: so that that is a very clear signature. You can
Speaker 2: easily say this is a technological object When people ask me,
Speaker 2: how would I know? It's very easy. You know, if
Speaker 2: you find a big piece in the wreckage of that meteorite,
Speaker 2: you know that, then you can tell whether it was
Speaker 2: a rock or a technological gadget. And the question is
Speaker 2: if it's a gudget and it has buttons on it,
Speaker 2: you know, should we press a button?
Speaker 1: I love it, but let's stretch our minds a little
Speaker 1: bit more. Abby. I believe that when we know we
Speaker 1: are not the only ones in our cosmos, we automatically
Speaker 1: have to look at our human lives much differently. But
Speaker 1: how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I I think it's really urgent for us
Speaker 2: to find alien intelligence. Right now, we are focused on
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence as the next big thing because it might
Speaker 2: actually become much more capable than the human brain, you know,
Speaker 2: within the next decade. But AI is not just artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2: It could be alien intelligence. And in that case, it
Speaker 2: could also be much more advanced and than us than
Speaker 2: the human brain. And so we have an opportunity to
Speaker 2: realize that there is something smarter than us, you know,
Speaker 2: and that would be a big revelation for humanity because
Speaker 2: it will give us a sense of humility. Right now,
Speaker 2: we think of ourselves at the top of the food chain.
Speaker 2: We eat animals that are lower in the food chain
Speaker 2: in restaurants, and we don't have any evidence for something
Speaker 2: smarter than us. But AI will bring it here, and
Speaker 2: if it comes from another star, I think it will
Speaker 2: serve the same purpose as you know, the Messiah. In
Speaker 2: religious texts, the idea is that there might be peace
Speaker 2: and prosperity brought to earth by a messianic future. And
Speaker 2: the way I see it is that we would realize
Speaker 2: that there is a smarter kid on our block because
Speaker 2: they were able to arrive to our doorstep before we
Speaker 2: arrived to their doorstep, and that will change everything, because
Speaker 2: it may inspire us to think more broadly rather than
Speaker 2: engaging conflicts on this earth. You know, we're spending two
Speaker 2: point four trillion dollars every year on military budgets worldwide,
Speaker 2: and we could have invested the same amount of money
Speaker 2: instead of trying to kill other people or prevent other
Speaker 2: people from killing us, we could have invested it in
Speaker 2: exploring space. And so I hope it will bring us
Speaker 2: to our senses. We would realize we are all, you know,
Speaker 2: in the same boat, the earth, and we should cooperate
Speaker 2: rather than fight each other. And you know, realizing there
Speaker 2: is someone else, a neighbor out there, will change everything.
Speaker 2: You know, when my daughters were young, they thought that
Speaker 2: they are at the center of the universe because we
Speaker 2: paid a lot of attention to them. They haven't met
Speaker 2: other people at the beginning, but then when they look
Speaker 2: through the window, they would see other houses on the street.
Speaker 2: But if you are to us them, they would insist
Speaker 2: that there is probably nothing worth as as much attention
Speaker 2: as they deserve because they got all the attention at home.
Speaker 2: That's exactly the status that my colleagues astrobiologists are at.
Speaker 2: They think that it's an extraordinary claim to imagine something
Speaker 2: like humans, you know, something as smart as we are
Speaker 2: out there, even though we know of many houses in
Speaker 2: our cosmic street that look just like ours. And I,
Speaker 2: you know, I realized that when my daughters went on
Speaker 2: the first day to the kindergarten, they had a psychological shock,
Speaker 2: but it was important for them to mature by realizing
Speaker 2: there are many other kids like them, and some of
Speaker 2: them are smarter. They learned from that experience. So we
Speaker 2: are still in the early phase where we haven't matured yet.
Speaker 2: We think it's you know, it's an extraordinary claim that
Speaker 2: requires extraordinary evidence. I say, no, you know, there must
Speaker 2: have been things like us many billions of years ago,
Speaker 2: and that's the most likely assumption. And in fact, it's
Speaker 2: an ordinary claim to imagine something like us. It's presumptuous.
Speaker 2: It's arrogant to think otherwise, and we just need to
Speaker 2: find ordinary evidence for this ordinary claim. But the problem
Speaker 2: right now is there is no funding from federal agencies
Speaker 2: to look for extraterrestrial intelligence. And I think it's just inappropriate.
Speaker 2: I think this is a subject that public cares about,
Speaker 2: the taxpayers care about. It's a matter of common sense
Speaker 2: to imagine something like us elsewhere, you know, within the
Speaker 2: Milky Way galaxy.
Speaker 1: So let's just.
Speaker 2: Search for any artifacts that they may have sent in
Speaker 2: the vicinity of Earth. And it doesn't need just to
Speaker 2: be in the form of UAP unidentified anormalous phenomena. That
Speaker 2: it could be also in the form of space trash
Speaker 2: that is flying around every now and then the Earth
Speaker 2: collides with one of them.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Do you believe that. Are we still using
Speaker 1: radio telescopes?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think that we could find somebody to
Speaker 1: really dial in the AI to find an ety civilization with?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is the traditional method looking for radio
Speaker 2: signals that has been you know, used over the past
Speaker 2: almost seventy years. We haven't found signals that indicate an
Speaker 2: artificial origin because you know, it's just like waiting for
Speaker 2: a phone call at home. Nobody may call you when
Speaker 2: you're waiting if you're waiting for a short time. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've been searching for less than a century and maybe
Speaker 2: a signal was sent a million years ago, it's now
Speaker 2: a million light years away, we would not detect it.
Speaker 2: So yes, to answer your question, AI can be very
Speaker 2: helpful and in fact, it's being used right now to
Speaker 2: analyze radio signals from the best radio telescopes on Earth.
Speaker 2: But so far we haven't found any signal. I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2: I think it makes much more sense to look for
Speaker 2: packages in our mailbox or in our backyard. You know,
Speaker 2: ani bott that was thrown by a neighbor that may
Speaker 2: have arrived, or an empty trash bag from a neighbor.
Speaker 2: You know, these kinds of things may be out there.
Speaker 2: We haven't such for those things, and we should do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're a fan of the
Speaker 1: Frank Drake hypothesis of sending out and seeing if somebody
Speaker 1: or picking up a signal from a distant planet.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just that we've tried that. And you know
Speaker 2: Albert Einstein said, if you keep doing the same thing
Speaker 2: over and over again expecting a different result, then you're
Speaker 2: probably not smart.
Speaker 1: As we conclude ALVI, and it's always fun speaking with you.
Speaker 1: In the perfect world that you are in would be
Speaker 1: an ideal scenario for you in recovery.
Speaker 2: So it depends what we find. I mean, if it's
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, we can bring
Speaker 2: it up examine it. That would be amazing if we
Speaker 2: were to find a piece of a technological gadget that
Speaker 2: is not human made. However, you know, even if we
Speaker 2: see something at a distance, just as a result of
Speaker 2: it coming close to the Sun, and then you know,
Speaker 2: if it comes within the orbit of Mercury, for example,
Speaker 2: such an object will heat up to more than six
Speaker 2: hundred degrees and we would see it glowing, and in
Speaker 2: fact it may get evaporated. So we can analyze the
Speaker 2: material that comes off it from a distance. We can
Speaker 2: do it remotely. That's my idea about the space telescope,
Speaker 2: and so we can actually study objects that come close
Speaker 2: to the Sun get very hot and emit a lot
Speaker 2: of radiation. They also reflect a lot of radiation from
Speaker 2: the lamp post sun. The Sun is very useful as
Speaker 2: a lamp post, and we haven't used it for that
Speaker 2: purpose so yet in terms of finding interstellar objects that
Speaker 2: come close to it. And I'm suggesting let's look for
Speaker 2: the keys under the lamp post.
Speaker 1: Exactly would you have to have permission if you found
Speaker 1: a technological object in one of your dredges? Would you
Speaker 1: seek permission before release in it to the public.
Speaker 2: Well, first I want to understand what it is before
Speaker 2: doing anything. You know, in principle, the way science operated
Speaker 2: in the past is that if you go to a
Speaker 2: site of a meteor and you find the remnants of
Speaker 2: the meteor and if it doesn't lie within the territorial
Speaker 2: boundaries of a nation, then in principle, you can bring
Speaker 2: it to a laboratory and study it. That's what happened
Speaker 2: with meteorites before. This is a very very unusual scenario
Speaker 2: where the meteoritis may not be a rock, but if
Speaker 2: it happens outside the territorial boundaries of countries, then it's
Speaker 2: available for signs to examine. If it's within the jurisdiction
Speaker 2: of a country, then you need to get permission to
Speaker 2: take it out of there.
Speaker 1: So if you found you were dredging off a New
Speaker 1: Guinea island and you found a piece of a technological object,
Speaker 1: you need to get permission from them to take it
Speaker 1: back to the United States.
Speaker 2: Well, no, the site that we're talking about of the
Speaker 2: meteor from twenty fourteen was outside the territorial waters of
Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea. But at any event, we are if
Speaker 2: we go there again. We are collaborating with University at
Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea and as a result, it's called the
Speaker 2: Unit TECH and so it will be done in cooperation
Speaker 2: with the local authorities, with the university, and we will
Speaker 2: do it in partnership with members of that university.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds that sounds like a collaborative type of discovery,
Speaker 1: which is wonderful. Doctor av Low. Always a pleasure to
Speaker 1: have you on the program. Give us a sense, tell
Speaker 1: us where they can people can read more about you,
Speaker 1: give us your website and if you're starting to go
Speaker 1: fund me for this next exploration, and where people can donate.
Speaker 2: So I would recommend checking avilob at medium dot com.
Speaker 2: I put essays every day or two about the latest
Speaker 2: updates about interesting news in space science, astrophysics, the search
Speaker 2: for intelligent life AI. But and then we have also
Speaker 2: the Galileo Project website where we have a button saying
Speaker 2: donate to us. But if we are talking about a
Speaker 2: significant contribution, for example, towards the expedition, the person can
Speaker 2: contact me directly. And then there will be a Netflix
Speaker 2: film coming out within a year, Oh my god, that
Speaker 2: will feature the expedition that were with me over there
Speaker 2: and will include the footage in fact, they were with
Speaker 2: me yesterday and it should be quite exciting to watch.
Speaker 2: And of course there are papers that came out from
Speaker 2: the expedition from the Gallel project that one can find
Speaker 2: on the Galileo Project website. So there is a lot
Speaker 2: of materials out there about the work we're doing. And
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about this year. I think we may
Speaker 2: be up to something.
Speaker 1: I hope that your wish is granted and you find
Speaker 1: the technological object in your next sweep thank you.
Speaker 2: By the way, there would be. And there is already
Speaker 2: a TED talk that then I gave in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: It was ranked and number five in popularity among old
Speaker 2: TED talks. So if anyone wants to see a summary
Speaker 2: eighteen minute summary of what we found so far, check
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I saw that it's a very
Speaker 1: excellent tech talk. It was July of last year. It's
Speaker 1: called My Search for Proof Aliens Exist, and it's very
Speaker 1: well done at a full crowd, and it was a
Speaker 1: standing ovation, So obviously people were inspired as much as
Speaker 1: we all are. A fantastic much success on this new venture.
Speaker 1: Let's have you back on the program after perhaps early
Speaker 1: next year, late this year, and by the way, when's
Speaker 1: the new book coming out?
Speaker 2: Are you still working out Within a year it should
Speaker 2: be delivered to the press, and so I assume in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six it will come out. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: exactly which month, but we should be finished with it
Speaker 2: by the end of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Wow, you have so much energy. It's it's wonderful, all right.
Speaker 2: So in life I realize it's always good to be optimistic,
Speaker 2: because life is sometimes self fulfilling prophecy. So if you're optimistic,
Speaker 2: good things will happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I like it because you're very transparent
Speaker 1: about what you're doing. I think there's so much that
Speaker 1: is hidden. If the government does have evidence of extraterrestual craft,
Speaker 1: will never know about it because they're paranoid. They're you know,
Speaker 1: they don't want people to know about that. So and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your openness in your work of the
Speaker 1: So thank you very much.
Speaker 2: You know, the Vatican try to suppress what Galileo saw,
Speaker 2: but eventually it admitted that Galileo was right. So I
Speaker 2: have hope that if the evidence is out there, we
Speaker 2: will all know about it eventually.
Speaker 1: Fantastic, great talking with you is always and we look
Speaker 1: forward to speaking with you again.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So it's good to have av on the show. I
Speaker 1: go much further than he does. He's, you know, although
Speaker 1: he's very outspoken. What happens if we determined that these
Speaker 1: fragments are extraterrestrial? You know, I mean that's a form
Speaker 1: of first contact. I think he's wanting to find fragments.
Speaker 1: I have this feeling that you know, I did a
Speaker 1: for instance, he does his next dredging operation and he
Speaker 1: finds a part of an engine, or a part of
Speaker 1: a panel, a mechanical device of some kind. How do
Speaker 1: you explain that? Now, he did not sign an NDA
Speaker 1: with ADD or NASA, so he can spit say whatever
Speaker 1: he wants. But would they freak out about that? I
Speaker 1: think would bring up a lot of questions. In my
Speaker 1: heart of hearts, I hope he does find fragments of
Speaker 1: a device, of a probe, of some exotic technology that
Speaker 1: can't be explained. I mean, I'm tired of this, this
Speaker 1: space agency cover up. We've had it for decades. They're
Speaker 1: just afraid. And you know, the more I thought about it,
Speaker 1: a really good sign that they're covering things up is
Speaker 1: the requesting the theologians to respond to the first contact question.
Speaker 1: That's a big indicator right there that they know that
Speaker 1: they have a problem. And so you don't go to
Speaker 1: an antiquated service, a out of touch group of people
Speaker 1: in the religious sector to get detailed and highly sensitive reactions,
Speaker 1: deeply visceral responses. You're not going to get them. Those
Speaker 1: people are shut down. You got to go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: So that's to me as an indicator that they are
Speaker 1: covering up likely you know, ships devices contact. And then
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario is that they have already been
Speaker 1: in contact for decades and that there's some kind of
Speaker 1: agreement that they show up occasionally, do some research, take
Speaker 1: some people on board, and do some analysis, and there
Speaker 1: you go. That would be That would be utter insanity.
Speaker 1: If that is the truth, If they are if our
Speaker 1: government is actually in the know to the point where
Speaker 1: they're actually allowing in exchange for whatever abductions and minerals
Speaker 1: and things like that, I don't know. I mean, I
Speaker 1: want to guess, But if that's true, heads should roll
Speaker 1: in the same manner that I feel that these trillion
Speaker 1: dollar rovers on Mars, I jokingly say that they're bumping
Speaker 1: into staircases, that are bumping into columns, are bumping into temples.
Speaker 1: And if it turns out that these administrators have known
Speaker 1: about this for you know, a long time, then heads
Speaker 1: should roll, they should take all those guys down, and
Speaker 1: because that's just crazy, you know, that's just restricting our evolution.
Speaker 1: So who knows, who knows finn to think about though,
Speaker 1: it really is. So I hope you enjoyed that. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you're enjoying Earth Ancient's Destiny or Earth Ancient Special
Speaker 1: Edition in the Archives, please consider becoming a subscriber. For
Speaker 1: as little as five bucks a month, you can support
Speaker 1: the work we do here on the podcast. We have
Speaker 1: our operating costs, we have overhead, and as little as five, ten, fifteen,
Speaker 1: even twenty dollars a month makes a huge, huge difference,
Speaker 1: And we have a lot of thank you for you.
Speaker 1: We have what we consider now a complete starter library
Speaker 1: of Earth Ancients authors, research investigators. We have a number
Speaker 1: of books, we have a number of white papers. We
Speaker 1: have a number of galleries, all for you to download
Speaker 1: in the convenience of your home. These are digital PDFs.
Speaker 1: Some of them are old files, but they're very easy
Speaker 1: to download onto your desktop, and they're yours as a
Speaker 1: thank you for joining and subscribing Earth Agents, So to
Speaker 1: join us. To become a subscriber, go to Patreon dot com,
Speaker 1: Forward Slash Earth Ancients and subscribe. That's PA t R
Speaker 1: e o N dot com, Forward Slash and Earth Ancients.
Speaker 1: Can't miss it. All right, that's it for this program,
Speaker 1: and when I think my guest today, doctor Avy Lowe,
Speaker 1: discussing his latest research. As always, the team of Gail Tour,
Speaker 1: Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You
Speaker 1: guys rock all right, take care and be well and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you next time.
Speaker 3: No no, don't say no no