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Every 27 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:29.400 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.040 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:47.959 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your 30 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:50.760 host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, the most 31 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:53.640 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 32 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.359 have written about them. On January eleventh, nineteen ninety five, 33 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:01.319 the deputies outside Austin, Texas found the mutilated body laid 34 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:07.000 across a cold campfire, head destroyed, hands, cut off, skin 35 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.120 singed by fire. In less than three days, they had 36 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.840 the kill zone a small apartment. Shy Christopher Hatton was 37 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.520 shot at point blank range in his bed. Stephanie Lynn Martin, 38 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:21.039 despite her devout Southern Baptist upbringing, was reborn as a 39 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:22.800 sultry stripper and calendar girl. 40 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:27.280 William M. Busenberg was a good looking wannabe living his 41 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.719 own lies. They came together in an explosion of violence 42 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:33.479 and sex. Then they decided there was only one thing 43 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:37.080 missing from their romance murder. But within days they were 44 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.199 under arrest and savvy prosecutors learned the ugly truth behind 45 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:44.400 the senseless slaughter of Bussenberg's friend, How twisted fantasies of 46 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.800 murder fueled the couple's lust and led to the unspeakable crime, 47 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:51.120 and how the truth tried to cover up, how they 48 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.719 and the and how they both tried to cover up 49 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.840 their heinous deed until they finally ran out of lies. 50 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.840 Wages of Sin is the book, were featured this evening, 51 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:02.680 and Murder was their turn on with my special guest, 52 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:04.879 Susie Spencer. Thank you for a greening to this interview 53 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.520 and welcome to the program. Susie Spencer, thank you very much. 54 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:13.479 Thank you. Now describe for our audience. First, off set 55 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.759 the setting for this story, the Travis County near Austin, Texas. 56 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.840 Tell us what this community was really like. Describe it for. 57 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:25.039 Us please, Well, Austin's always been considered so called liberal, 58 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:29.800 the only liberal city in Texas. We're known for our 59 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:36.080 hippies and our politicians and the University of Texas, and 60 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.879 that's mainly and well in our course, our rock and 61 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:43.280 roll music. Right we're considered the live music capital of 62 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.599 the world, or at least that's the way we promote ourselves. 63 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:47.520 I don't know what reality is. 64 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:51.560 That, right, Oh, you do certainly have that reputation. Now. 65 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.319 The question I always ask, because I'm always curious, and 66 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.520 I think the audience might be too, is why did 67 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:59.680 you decide to write about this particular trial, and this 68 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.680 the case, of course the subject of your book, Wages 69 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:05.840 of Sin. Why'd you decide to write this book? 70 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:11.599 I think the headlines just got me curious. And I 71 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:14.520 always have this thing where if something happens in my 72 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.720 life to me, that's sort of like the signal that 73 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.240 I should do this book. And so it was already 74 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:23.399 in the back of my head. And then I had 75 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:25.480 been considering it. And then I was at the Texas 76 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.519 Book Festival one day and I looked over at the 77 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:31.519 booth that was next to me, because I was standing 78 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:34.920 in the Writer's League of Texas booth. Looked over and 79 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.279 I started talking to the people in the next booth, 80 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.079 and it ended up that the girl had been a 81 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.759 waitress at the Yellow Rose Strip club where Stephanie Martin, 82 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.040 the killer in Wages of Sin, worked, and she said, 83 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.800 there's this story you should really do, and it was 84 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.759 Wages of Sin, and I went, oh, my gosh, I've 85 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:56.920 been thinking about it, so that was sort of my 86 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.759 signal to myself that I should do it. And that's why. 87 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:08.079 Right well, before we get into Stephanie Lynn Martin, let's 88 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:11.120 go to the other subject of your book, or one 89 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.920 of them is Chris Hatton, and tell us about Chris 90 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:18.480 Hatton his early life. What were his parents like, what 91 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.319 was his upbringing like, where did he grow up? Tell 92 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:23.600 us and our audience about Chris Hatton. 93 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:29.360 Oh, he's just this drop dead cute Alabama boy that 94 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.040 charmed everyone in Texas with his southern drawl. Because in 95 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:35.160 Texas you might be able to tell with me, we 96 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.040 have kind of a hard accent. So the southern Alabama 97 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:43.160 thing really charmed people here. And the reason he moved 98 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.800 to Texas was because he, like I say, he grew 99 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:52.120 up in Alabama and his father died. They don't really 100 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.319 know why he died, because he was running a fever 101 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.560 and it spiked. He became delusional from that, and then 102 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.160 the police were called into the hospital where the father 103 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.319 had been taken because of his fever, and the police 104 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:11.040 supposedly beat him trying to, you know, get this delusional 105 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.759 man under control. And a few days later he died, 106 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.560 so they aren't sure whether he died from the beating 107 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:21.199 or from the fever. His mother, who then was left 108 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:27.560 taking care of Will and his younger brother Brian, was allegedly, 109 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.240 you know, an alcoholic with all kinds of issues, and 110 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.360 so Will I mean, excuse me, will I mean Chris 111 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.000 kind of went you know, a little bit wild, and 112 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.639 so he was shipped to his uncle here in Texas, 113 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.560 who was a police officer actually in the Sheriff's department. 114 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.720 And so that's how he ended up in Texas, actually 115 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.360 at round Rock High School where he was a bit 116 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.279 older than the other students and he was in the 117 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:01.000 junior rotc And he had this dream of always being 118 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:05.480 a Navy seal, either that or a fashion model, because 119 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.720 he was again so dad gom cute. I love to 120 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:11.399 look at the pictures of him because he was just 121 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:13.120 so cute. 122 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.720 So what did he do about his dream about being 123 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:19.040 a Navy seal other than talking about it quite a 124 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:22.920 bit with his friends, and throughout his life he's still, 125 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:25.959 or least in his young years, he talked about being 126 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.759 a Navy seal quite a bit of dominated conversations. So 127 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.079 what did he do towards his dream? Other than the 128 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.199 rotc about being a Navy seal. 129 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.120 Well, when he got out of high school, he went 130 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:38.759 and joined the navy, but it ended up that it 131 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.000 wasn't you know, his fantasy. He was more like busy 132 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:46.959 swabbing decks the brother and I think painting the ships 133 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.759 out in San Diego, rather than training to be a 134 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.000 Navy seal. And part of the problem was that he 135 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.879 was madly in love with a young woman named Lisa 136 00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:59.240 Pace who he had met through Junior ROTC and round Rock. 137 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.959 And so he went a wall one night to go home, 138 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:08.600 to fly back to Texas to see Lisa. Allegedly, and 139 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.199 I don't really know if I buy this story, but 140 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.279 allegedly he you know, packed up his clothes I think 141 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.480 in some plastic, jumped off the side of the ship 142 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:23.120 and his givies and you know, went to the swim 143 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.360 to shore, put on his dry clothes, went straight to 144 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.839 the airport and flew home. And so then he eventually 145 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:32.519 got out kicked out of the navy because of that. 146 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.120 What did Lisa say? When was there any talk of 147 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.879 what Lisa said to him when she knew that he 148 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.840 had done he had gone a wall because she had 149 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.480 an interest in the military or the Navy as well. 150 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.320 So was there any did did they talk about what 151 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.279 they had said to each other about this? 152 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.799 Well, you're going to have to probably refresh my memory 153 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:57.799 a little bit here, but if I recall correctly, uh, 154 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:02.159 there there was a part of her that was, you know, like, oh, man, 155 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:05.279 you know my guy, you know, skipped the Navy for me. 156 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.919 But at the same time, because she was also military 157 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.480 or you know, met they had met in junior ORTC 158 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.000 and she was very responsible in the military, that was 159 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.440 sort of like, oh my gosh, what have you done? 160 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:19.480 So I think she had a bit of mixed emotion 161 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:20.320 there about it. 162 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.360 So now he what happens as a result of him 163 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.879 going a wall. He gets discharged from the army, Yeah, 164 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:29.879 from the Navy, yes, a. 165 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.919 Pardon and and came back home and was feeling pretty 166 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.120 much like a screw up, you know, because there was 167 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.519 a part of him because he also had other problems 168 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.960 in the Navy that he if I recall correctly, he 169 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:44.919 got trouble for driving drunk and stuff like that. Because 170 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.600 even though he had an image as a sweet little kid, 171 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:51.080 you know with his family that they thought, oh he 172 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:53.919 never drank or anything, he also had a heavy duty 173 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.679 party side. So when he came back to Texas feeling 174 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.799 like a failure that he had blown on his dream, 175 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:04.679 you know, the you know, fantasy of modeling isn't one 176 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:08.799 you can really pursue. In Austin, he was feeling pretty 177 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.720 dejected and he and Lisa moved in together, were engaged, 178 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.240 which they got engaged while they were in the Navy, 179 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.600 or when he was in the Navy, and but he 180 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:23.799 pretty much spent his time at the nightclubs partying and 181 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.399 then would come home and at the meantime, she's going 182 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.879 down to San Antonio for her ROTC training, and so 183 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.320 she's working like a dog, and she's getting a little 184 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.840 irritated that he's just going out and partying and spending money, 185 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.159 and I probably, well, let's just go on for there, 186 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:42.279 we'll come back. 187 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:47.000 Well, the thing is is that they eventually do split up, 188 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.480 and but it's it's more from the it's from his 189 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.960 initiative that they do split He moves out of the 190 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.960 apartment or moves her stuff. What why was there did 191 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.559 you find the reason why they did finally break up? 192 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.840 And and who initiated the breakup itself? 193 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.519 Well that was sort of what I was going from 194 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:08.679 the way Lisa talked to me, and she and I 195 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:13.679 spent numerous hours sitting at my dining table talking. She's 196 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.960 kind of bossy, you know, or at least she was 197 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:18.960 back then. I don't know what she's like now. I 198 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.960 don't want to, you know, condemn the person who she's 199 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:25.600 out there listening somewhere. But she kind of ruled him. 200 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.039 She controlled everything, you know, she wanted to control the money, 201 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:32.679 the shopping, and so I think it was just he 202 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.399 was kind of fed up. He wanted to go out 203 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.759 and enjoy life, be a young man, and so instead 204 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:44.240 of being tied down, and you know, he had his 205 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.279 best buds to go out and party with him. 206 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.039 Now, what was his character, because there is some contradiction 207 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:53.679 in terms of guy that wants to party, But then 208 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.639 you do talk about his character, at least a lot 209 00:11:56.679 --> 00:11:59.159 of people talk about his character of him being shy 210 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.200 and not much of a dream. Yeah. 211 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.559 And it was really interesting because when I was writing 212 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.440 the book, I felt like I never really got to 213 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:12.039 know Chris, and finally I realized why, because he had 214 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:16.519 such different images. He had one image with his family 215 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.519 is the good, clean cut, sort of studious, good boy, 216 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:23.879 And then he had this other side of him that 217 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.840 was going a wall and was going out and drinking 218 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.320 all the night, you know, every night, and partying in 219 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:34.360 country western dancing and getting into fights. So I think 220 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.639 that's why I felt like I didn't really know him, 221 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:42.240 because I wasn't sure he knew who he was. You know, which, 222 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:45.919 am I this clean cut kid who's gonna help my 223 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:49.279 aunt Holly, who I'm living with, and do every good 224 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.360 deed for her and make her happy. Am I the 225 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.480 one who's worried about my younger brother? Or am I 226 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.879 the one who's ticked off at my girlfriend who's you know, 227 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.559 monopolizing my life and doesn't let me go out and 228 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:05.960 drink and party in country western dance? 229 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.279 Well, there is at some point I don't know how 230 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.039 important it is. That you don't really explain how important 231 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:16.559 this is. But Lisa finds a Yellow Rose the bar 232 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:21.600 the strip yard that Stephanie Martin dances at. She finds 233 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.000 a Yellow Rose T shirt from the t shirt and 234 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.799 and ask him some questions. So as much as she 235 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.559 might be boss or dominating, I know, being a guy 236 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.919 that something like that will kind of put a damper 237 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:41.480 on everything, including trust and you'll probably never hear. I haven't, 238 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.240 but I can just imagine how much trouble you to 239 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:48.000 try to explain this away or downplay this T shirt. 240 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:53.200 So now, now, eventually, eventually, if. 241 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.759 I recall correctly, he's sort of he worked for a 242 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.759 beer company delivery company. And if I recall correctly, he 243 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.600 planed it off as, oh, I was just doing my job, 244 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:04.279 you know, and that's how I got the. 245 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.159 T shirt right, and then he could probably try to 246 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.559 explain why he kept it again. Still it might be 247 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.720 an okay explanation, but I think it could add to 248 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.159 his problems dramatically. Now, the thing is when we talk 249 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.600 about the Yellow Rose strip bar here that it's a 250 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.039 topless bar, isn't it? 251 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.200 It's just a strip club. In fact, ironically, I was 252 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.440 in touch to today with a person who used to 253 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:30.879 work there. 254 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.480 Okay, now tell us about tell us about the bar itself, 255 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.159 the Yellow Rose, what type of you know, what type 256 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:40.240 of establishment is? 257 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:40.480 Is it? 258 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:42.879 A diver? Is a little a little class here? And 259 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:46.360 tell us about Stephanie Lynn Martin. You can go back 260 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.279 to her early upbringing as well, because it is, as you, 261 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.679 as we've talked about before, she comes from a Christian 262 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.399 background and then ends up being in a in a 263 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.559 strip bar in Texas. So tell us about Stephanie Martin 264 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.639 from what you've learned in your research about her background 265 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.360 and her parents, and then tell us where she got 266 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.080 to at the and and the prominence she had at 267 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.480 this Yellow Rose strip club. 268 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.159 Well, let's start off with the strip club, the Yellow Rose. 269 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.799 Back in those days, it was considered like one of 270 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.480 the two high end strip clubs in town. It was 271 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.320 one of the places to go, one of those type 272 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.360 where you drive up and they have the valet service 273 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.799 where they put the expensive cars out front, whereas you 274 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.480 know some dive where you're going to go and just 275 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.759 park in the back and jump in right. So, yeah, 276 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:40.960 she was considered, you know, supposedly a really high end stripper. 277 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:42.840 But like you say, we'll get to that in a moment. 278 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.360 Stephanie kind of like like Chris, is a bit of 279 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:52.039 a dichotomy. Dichotomy and that she did have this Southern 280 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.080 Baptist devout you know background, where she was in church, 281 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:58.799 She went to church camp. Her parents were very very 282 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.360 involved in the church. I was just noticing a while 283 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.200 ago that I opened the section of the book about 284 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.840 her where she's lost her cat. 285 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.759 Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring. 286 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:17.240 Laundry, book club, computer solitaire. 287 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:24.399 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumba casino to chum. 288 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.320 That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 289 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.679 style games joined today and play for free for your 290 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.600 chance to redeem some serious prizes to chum chumbacasino dot 291 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:38.799 com overdty Pluster's condition of the Busy website retails. 292 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.559 And the cat comes home, and then her mother's going 293 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.399 cleaning up her room, and this discovers this note that 294 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.840 Stephanie had written saying, Dear God, please bring kitty home safely. 295 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:49.799 Right. 296 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.720 And so she had this reputation of being so loving 297 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:59.799 to animals, but it seemed like from the beginning of 298 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:07.039 time she had this exhibitionist, you know in her. That 299 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.440 makes me sort of question what all went on in 300 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.359 her background, because when she was in the sixth grade, 301 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:17.920 and you have to remember, this is you know, back 302 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:19.720 a few years ago. I think she was born in 303 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.279 nineteen seventy two, This wasn't a time that it was 304 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.880 as liberal as it is now, and so like in 305 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.759 sixth grade, she was pulling little girls into the bathroom 306 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.160 and kissing them and feeling up with you know, being 307 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.839 sexual with them, right, And then she would go off 308 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.559 to church camp. And then she would show up at 309 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:47.920 school and say, oh, look, old, I accidentally forgot to 310 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:48.400 put on. 311 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.759 My underwear, right. 312 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.519 And so it was. And she's charming, she's personal, she's 313 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:59.039 out going. She loved to dance. She took dance lessons 314 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.279 from you know, her childhood on up and was a 315 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.920 competitive dancer. And so her parents will sort of present 316 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.799 this image as she was this good daughter. I believe 317 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.359 she was the youngest of the three kids. But then 318 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.559 she was also getting in trouble all the time, Like 319 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.880 she won a dance competition in that same year, she 320 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.920 was pregnant and smoked her first joint, and she would 321 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.039 like go and you know, go to school at the 322 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.160 community college. But then I remember that she was telling 323 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:35.359 me something about toying with the occult that, you know, 324 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.960 with Luigi boards and with the cats and stuff. You 325 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.720 know here she supposedly loves animals, but I remember they 326 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:46.160 would talk. I think it was more like a fantasy 327 00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:51.000 land or something that about the torture of cats, and 328 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:56.160 and she she seemed to me that she loved to 329 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:02.519 create drama that you know, supposedly, well, when we talk 330 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.359 about her boyfriend will Boozenberg, who presented himself as a 331 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.759 CIA hip man, which we'll get to in a minute, 332 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.960 Stephanie bought into this, but I really think she wanted 333 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.799 to buy into it. There's no way I believe that 334 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:20.200 she believed he was really a CIA hip man, except 335 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:24.440 it fed into her desire to have this flashy, big, 336 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:31.640 bold life, you know, like supposedly when they went to 337 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.759 try out at the strip club at the Yellow Rose 338 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.480 to dance, I think she tries to present it where oh, 339 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.759 they were pulling her there, when in reality, she was 340 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.160 the one saying, oh, let's go, let's go, let's try this. 341 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:48.200 Out, right, So she was the good girl trying to 342 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.359 be a bad girl or vice versa. 343 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:51.839 Right. 344 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.240 What was interesting too, is that to lend to say 345 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.799 maybe the parents being in denial or being naive, or 346 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.680 a domination of both. Apparently, according to your book, the 347 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.519 father didn't know she worked at this Yellow Rose. 348 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.599 If I remember correctly. One of his coworkers mentioned that 349 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.599 he thought he saw Stephanie there and then she just said, Oh, 350 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.960 I'm a cocktail waitress or something but you know, the 351 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:24.599 father had some issues, if I'm again recalling correctly, I 352 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:27.720 think he sometimes had a little bit of a gambling problem, 353 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:30.720 and I think he had some mental health issues and 354 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:36.599 battled with depression a lot. And so my I had 355 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:41.880 always been curious whether he had more mental health issues 356 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:46.039 than he allowed us to know, and that maybe that 357 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.079 was going on with Stephanie, that she also had some 358 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:54.400 mental health issues that would encourage her into these fantasies 359 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.799 that you know she kind of created. 360 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.440 Right now, Well, how did Stephanie and Chris meet and 361 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:04.359 what was their relationship exactly? 362 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.359 Well, she'll always say that they didn't get along. They 363 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.079 met through his room mate, Will Buzenberg, who eventually became 364 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:17.240 Stephanie's boyfriend. And I believe they met at the Yellow Rose, 365 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.960 because you know, the Yellow Rose in Austin, back in 366 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:25.400 those days, was where all young men went. It's I 367 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.440 always equate that the place has the A girls and 368 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:30.720 the B girls. The B girls are the ones that 369 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:34.079 dance in the daytime. The A ones are the ones 370 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:36.880 at night, and the lack the A plus ones don't 371 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.279 even bother to come in until ten o'clock at night. 372 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.720 Because I remember when I was doing my research, and 373 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:45.680 I would go to the club and you know, hey, 374 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.039 you know, I'm a writer, I'm not a partier, and 375 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.119 so I'd be there, you know, seven eight o'clock and 376 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:54.720 the place is dead, and then by ten o'clock, I'm 377 00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:56.680 exhausted and want to get out of there, and that's 378 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.400 when it's just starting to go. So a lot of 379 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.319 the girls, like Stephanie would only come in then. And 380 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.519 at that point, the young men who come in at 381 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:10.400 that at that time are very serious on getting drunk 382 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.319 and seeing the girls dance. 383 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:20.480 Right now, Will Bussenberg, we won't get into. We will 384 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:23.440 get into what he did say to Stephanie, what he 385 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.799 did tell Stephanie about his life and who he was 386 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:33.160 and his father. And so tell us about what Will 387 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.119 Bussenberg told Stephanie Martin we taught, we already alluded to it, 388 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.079 that he told her he worked for the CIA. Tell 389 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:41.759 us the whole incredible story that she had to swallow 390 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:42.680 and accept. 391 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:49.680 Well, he's sitting in the club, and she says that 392 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:54.119 she was mesmerized by him because he was one of 393 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.720 the few that when he would talk to her, he 394 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.559 would look in her eyes instead of her check and 395 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.359 that when she would offer to give him a lap dance. 396 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.319 He'd say, no, no, no, I just want to talk 397 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.519 to you, and then would tipper like crazy just to talk. 398 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:16.480 And so she totally loved that. And she says that 399 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.759 he was really hard to get to know, that she 400 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.119 had to really pull out information from him. 401 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:24.079