Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows, Sikos, I am Dana Valley coming
at you as always with the one, the only, this
certified Fance Fabulous just created every single team's twenty twenty
five NBA trade deadline.
Speaker 2: Activity in just incredible time.
Speaker 1: Mister Grant Hughes, if you haven't guessed already, this is
our trade deadline reaction podcast. I would point you towards
if you're looking for breakdowns on Luca and Daron Fox
and even more so the Kyle Ko's My Trade.
Speaker 2: We did individual.
Speaker 1: Pods on those, so go back through our feet and look.
If you're here for the first time. I don't normally
do this at the top anymore. Hit the subscribe button,
join our discord the link that's in the YouTube and
podcast description.
Speaker 2: Support us in those ways.
Speaker 1: That's the best way to supports is to subscribe on
Apple and Spotify as well and keep those bring those
ratings and reviews up for us on Apple and Spotify too.
But let's talk about everything that went down, Grant. How
you feel about it all?
Speaker 3: Uh man? Uh kind of in a bit of a daze,
because that's just always how the trade deadline feels. I
do think it was helpful that a lot of big
deals happened before today, so it was just for us
certainly having to like, you know, wrangle information on all
of these trades in a short amount of time to
like get stuff published. That was helpful. But it's always
like a blur, so this is a helpful exercise. Also,
I would say, Dan, you're untradeable.
Speaker 1: I just want to leave you with that exact that's
because I just signed an extension or does it do
have any.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's just it's a technicality. That's it's kind
of nothing to do with your value.
Speaker 1: We tried to move you and then found out that
we couldn't, and that's how we knew. The way we're
gonna frame this is we're gonna go through like we'll
probably end up talking about every team, but we're gonna
use deals as a launching point into larger trade deadlines.
Speaker 2: And that's how it works every year.
Speaker 1: It's a little chaotic, it's a lot of fun, but
let's dig into it. We begin with Jimmy Butler to
the Golden State Warriors, and this is gonna end up being.
Speaker 2: A sixteam trade.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go through the details. If you're watching
on YouTube, you can see it on screen. The Pistons
received Dennis Shrewder Lindy Waters the third, so they won
the trade obviously, Milwaukee's twenty twenty seven second, Dallas's twenty
thirty one second. Golden State receives Jimmy Butler, who is
signing a two year, one hundred eleven million dollar extension
following this trade. The Miami Heat are receiving Kyle and Henderson.
Some drama there, we'll get to it. Davion Mitchell Andrew
Wiggins Golden State's twenty twenty five first round pick that
is top ten protected through twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: The seventy six ers.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a fake second rounder involved in there,
but I haven't seen the exact details, but they did
create a seven point nine to eight million dollar traded
player exception. The Toronto Raptors received a PJ. Tucker and
a twenty twenty six second round pick. It is coming
from the Lakers and it came from Miami and they
will get cash as well. And finally, the Utah Jazz
are getting kJ Martin Josh Richardson a twenty twenty eight second.
Speaker 2: Round pick that's still Detroit.
Speaker 1: A few of those, but it's coming from Detroit, a
twenty thirty one second round pick that'll be coming from Miami,
and it's the less favorable of Indiana and Miami. Just
as a fore warning, there will be other This is
gonna be like more of a Piston's Warriors heat thing.
So I think we need to start with grant. The
Warriors didn't after telling us that they wouldn't and then
becoming desperate to get anybody. And look, if I'm Jimmy Butler,
I walk in and say, Kevin Durant over me? Is
that what they try to do?
Speaker 2: But how are you just how are you feeling about this?
From the Warriors perspective?
Speaker 3: My feelings have evolved over the last how long ago
did it happen? Like eighteen hours ago? Something like that.
At first I think I I think I went with
like A It's like it's it's a C minus or whatever.
Since I'm very much in the mindset of grading things
with letters. I hopefully we'll shake that at some point
in the next several hours. As we're talking on the
just because we know we understand the risks of taking
on Jimmy but and we understand like the ickiness of oh,
that extension is a lot that's going to go through
his age thirty seven season. The flexibility you might have
had is kind of gone, how much better is Jimmy
Butler than Andrew Wiggins? Really and then certainly on a
dollar for dollar kind of you know standpoint. And then
so had a phone conversation with friend of the pod
Bill who's in our discord, and also talk to my
brother about it. Really just sought out support, thought out
some wisdom, and here's where I've landed, I think because
the like, if you made a computer decide what the
Warriors should do and there was no emotion involved, they
would have blown the team up, like the day after
the twenty two title traded, Steph traded everybody whatever. Like
that's the objectively like unsentimental correct decision to have made.
Didn't happen then was never gonna happen. They're not going
to do that, So that extreme is off the table.
The other extreme, if you are going to seek upgrades
is to do something like the Kevin Durant trade, which
didn't happen, was never gonna happen because he didn't want
it to, in which you give up all of your
future assets that you can trade right both first, kaminga
pods whatever didn't do that, so didn't do that extreme end,
and so in search of an upgrade, I think they
got maybe the best one that they could have for
realistically speaking, the lowest price they could have paid. So
while acknowledging all the risks of Butler's fit and like
attitude and cost, I kind of think this is about
as well as you could have hoped the Warriors could
do if you're gonna have them make this kind of trade.
So I've come way up from calling it like a
below average move. I don't know, it's not a home run.
There's massive risk, but it makes them more interesting. I
think it makes them better. It raises their ceiling. It
might lower their floor a little, but not as much
as some other moves might have. So I'm pretty positive
on it, even if I don't think it makes them
a contender. But I also don't think that move was
out there. So really my question is for you, because Dan,
if we've had a disagreement at any point over the years,
I think it's been related to like what the Warriors
should do, how serious they've been. So from my perspective,
you have to love this trade. We haven't really talked
about it because they did go do something. It was
a swing and really they didn't give up as much
as they probably could have in some other, you know,
alternate realities. So I'm positive on it. I assume you
are at least as positive as I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gave it. I had a grade this one.
You could we're just grading everything. Go check out our
grades over Bleach Report. Apparently I gave it a B.
I think I agree with everything you said for the
most part. The timing is sort of I'm like, well,
why did you wait this long?
Speaker 2: To me?
Speaker 1: And you could say that the Miami Heat were only
going to trade in when it got to this, na dear,
It's been at the Nader for a while, and it
seems like Phoenix was never really in contention of it
because Miami didn't want Beale and they couldn't find anyone
to take Beal. That's probably the only reason for me
to dislike, because my entire argument against the Warriors standing
relatively pat was what are you actually accomplishing because you're
pearl clutching these picks. Let's use this year's pick as
an example, which they just traded it was never going
to be elite because you were never going to be
bad enough, and so you weren't preserving the future in
my eyes by saying, oh, we're not going to make
this win now.
Speaker 2: Trade now.
Speaker 1: If you went and traded all those distant first round picks, yes,
but I wanted them to do something that straddled the
line in between, and this comes as close as possible.
I don't giving up Andrew Wiggins as a blow. I
really do think that people are kind of underestimating what
Jimmy Butler can still do. Defentsively, I think they also
they didn't get rid of GP two that someone else
who could guard the ball. I think people are I
think Mos this movie can guard the ball more than
we've seen him do it. So I am more worried about, well,
what does this fit look like when all the most
important players are together. But I also look at it
through the lens of the Warriors have been able to
do basically nothing during stephless minutes since dating back to
a KD era or before it. Jimmy Butler is someone
because of his playmaking, because of his on ball rim pressure,
should be able to stabilize those minutes in ways that
even a Kevin Durant like at his peak, just couldn't.
And if you believe that you're getting a motivated Jimmy Butler,
I think this is a home run swing and maybe
you miss, But okay, like, what did you like if
you're if you didn't wanted the Warriors to do nothing
like what was Andrew Wiggins eventually going to become to
you just someone who was able to like help you
float a play in Bert like you were never gonna
trade him for a bunch of picks.
Speaker 2: Maybe we got an a a first round round his
way out.
Speaker 1: But it's like you said, because look, if we're being
objected completely objective here, you would have preferred to have
move Draymond Green rather than Andrew Wiggins while doing this deal?
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: Another big I would think, I think.
Speaker 3: The ceiling play involves keeping Draymond Green the like though
let's keep our floor higher involves probably moving you know,
I don't know what's question.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair, especially when you look at their
center situation. But now you found a way to I
think straddle both of the lines. And look, the contract
is a lot, but it dovetails nicely with when Draymond
Green and Steph come off the books.
Speaker 3: That's the other things. It leaves you the option of
a really hard reset after all three of those guys
come up like that, and that might honestly be the plan,
right it almost it's it's certainly not coincidental that that's
how things have lined up. I know you have more
to say. I just wonder is there something that they
could have done they the Warriors could have done realistically
that would have gotten an A grade from you? Because
to me, this feels like I don't know what they
could have done unless you say, take Wiggins out of
the deal and include other expiring salaries somehow and make
it like a six for one trade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Butler it would have been tough.
Speaker 1: Like you could have done something with up to Levine
or if you really wanted Zion where you didn't need
to include Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: I think just based off where where where was Miami
sending Jimmy Butler if you didn't include that first round
pick is where I'm kind of coming from.
Speaker 3: I think they're key, honestly, I think they hold on
to him.
Speaker 1: And you know what, then then you and and friend
of the podcast Bill would have.
Speaker 2: Been happy, apparently because you didn't want to do jack shit.
Speaker 1: But I think you can even argue that it's just
because of all the players that they were linked to,
like Jimmy Butler is I think gives you a higher ceiling,
especially immediately than if it was let's say, of Paul
George or maybe even a zach Lavine. Like zach Lavine
was such a cleaner fit, even though it seems like
they were never necessarily in on him. And you also
still could have done the thing where like, well, what
was the point of getting Dennis Shrueber after all? Because
you were trying to avoid making this move.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, you might have wasted.
Speaker 1: Time doing that, like the three second round picks they
gave up a part of that. I think it's a
really good trade. I would like it even more if
they had done it earlier. And I just have questions
about really specifically what the offense will look like when
everyone's on the court. But I you say this about Wemby,
I say about Steph. Through Steph's gravity, all things are possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as I was working really hard to
rationalize it and just try to this is the other thing,
like emotionally, I very quickly pivoted to like how do
I make myself feel good about this?
Speaker 1: For the Warriors, Well, can I ask a question actually
before you go on? This might be why I'm digging
them some constantly. Would you rather have Kaminga or this
year's first round pick?
Speaker 3: I think I'd rather have Kminga. And that's while acknowledging
they're gonna have to pay him now, and you're looking
at Steph and Draymond and Butler and Kaminga probably putting
you over the apron by themselves, like it's depending on
what Kaminga ends up getting. I just think I think
that pick. Everybody loves the twenty five draft if unless
things go totally sideways. If they go totally sideways, they
just keep the pick, which is okay.
Speaker 1: But that's also by the way, that's another good thing
about the pick is it's protected through twenty twenty seven,
so even if you have to wait, like I think
it becomes two seconds afterwards or maybe even nothing. That's
also when these guys come off the books like there's
just no long term harm here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, well, the scary downside is that twenty
seven is unprotected, right, So like there's a scenario where
you give up, do I have that right?
Speaker 2: I thought it was top ten protected through to that.
Speaker 3: I think it's top ten and twenty five and twenty six,
and then it's unprotected in twenty seven. I'm pretty sure
that's that's happening lower in.
Speaker 2: My grade there.
Speaker 3: Then well, I mean, if you don't convey that thing
this year, something went wrong. But then yeah, so that's
it's a it's a far fetch risk, but it's it's there,
and I don't I don't know, Like I think the
fit is a real question because essentially three of your
four core players, now if you include Cominga with Green,
Curry and Butler, are like our non shooters, you know,
or at least low enough volume to make spacing like
a major issue. And then if you're playing a real center,
you're talking about four of your five guys on the
floor that just don't have any gravity. So you're really
asking Butler's playmaking and free throw generation to do a
lot of the lifting. You're asking Kaminga to not just
sustain what he did as like a driver of offense
and when he was healthy this year, but to pretty
significantly increase that and make threes. It's a lot, but
I would say Butler and Bam out of Bio did
pretty well. And that's two core guys that are non
shooters in Miami. So if you add Steph, maybe that
does make all things possible. You know. The other thing
is I kind of also like this from Miami side,
unless you have more on Golden State, Like I think
if the alternative is you hold on to Butler and
just let him walk and enjoy the space. Still, i'd
rather have Andrew Wiggins obviously, and a twenty five first
round pick. That's I don't know, maybe it's gonna be
from the fifteen to twenty five range or whatever. That's
that might be as good as you could realistically hope
to get, given nobody wanted to pay him other than Phoenix,
and this was like your only game in town. Really.
Speaker 1: The only thing I wanted to wrap up on Golden
State is do you like assign any concern to Jimmy
Butler saying he initially didn't want to go to Golden
State or is it kind of just the way the
Warriors were performative and saying they didn't want to make
a win now trade is it on that level too.
Speaker 3: It's scary to discount it because of the way Butler
has made things uncomfortable when he hasn't gotten what he's
wanted at other stops in the past. I still think
that's probably just something you say because you're really sure
Phoenix is going to give you that extension and you're
not sure anyone else is. And the war You know,
again here I am rationalizing, he agreed to opt out
and just sign this to year deal, so it's really
one more year at fifty eight million or whatever it is.
So it's like, you know, he kind of gets some
of what he wants and hopefully that pacifies him. Honestly, Like,
I think, if you're Butler and you're looking at Golden
State and Phoenix, if you care about winning and not
just who's extending you because the Warrior just did it,
I don't really think Phoenix is any like is a
rosier kind of like Atlantic spot than Golden State is.
Speaker 1: The Warriors still have stuff if they want to go
and make another move. Technically, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 3: The Miami side is cleaner just because they got what
they could and it's decent considering the circumstances.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was.
Speaker 1: By the way, Golden State not going out and getting
a big two felt a little weird, but I guess
just it might make more sense to downsize here, to
try and increase like the offensive, you know, flexibility with
Butler there. For Miami, though, I think it's a solid
return for them given how much the situation devolved, and
they probably had more leverage than Jimmy Butler in the
end when you look at the outcome, just of he
went somewhere, he claimed he didn't want to and sign
the extension anyway, there was clearly a.
Speaker 2: Miscalculation done by them though, because they.
Speaker 1: Failed to duck the luxury tax and initially looked like
they were gonna get Kyle Anderson off to Toronto that
fell through. Toronto, we'll see had other things lined up,
so they still have they can do it. They're like
inside three million. I imagine they'll do it going into
the draft. But I don't necessarily love Kyle Anderson's fit,
or maybe I should like it more because they're playing
khalil Ware and bam Adebayo together, so they're gonna have
all these funky lineups. Getting Davion Mitchell's interesting because you
have Tyler Hero and Terry Rozier, but Davian Mitchell does
all the things that those guys don't do, which is
just like exist under someone's skin defensively. So I feel
like this this team still has the makings of a
potential defensive behemoth. Don't know what the offense, and like,
like you said, getting Wiggins was good for them, and
they got a first round pick, so like that's a
that's a bigger deal. I just I don't know the alternative.
I don't think would have been any better. But do
you what are Do you view them as a they
owe that pick to Okase this year before it becomes
unprotected next years they need to make the playoffs?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you view them as more or less likely
to do it after this trade?
Speaker 3: I mean I guess, well, I guess more as long
as we're saying that the before version of the heat
was everybody that's there, no Jimmy and none of these
new guys in this in the totally like farcical situation.
Butler comes back and actually plays for them and tries
hard and everybody's happy about it. It's probably a wash.
So I do think getting Wiggins, who's going to be
good for them, I think, And and that is really
just to put sentiment back into it, Like it was
really hard. I think you saw some of the Steve
Kerr comments after the fact about how it's so difficult
to move him and and all that, Like, I think
that was pretty genuine. I guess they're more likely to
answer your question than they were before the trade. It's
still it's still not a given though, right Like you
lose Bam for any stretch of time or Hero and
you're just you don't have the depth, certainly in like
terms of defensive anchors or you know, offensive engines to
really withstand any kind of injury to either of those guys.
Speaker 1: I guess you could look at it and say, though, Okay,
Ingram the Toronto was already so far out and who
knows of Ingram. They'll even have Ingram play a bunch
this season. But then like Chicago and Atlanta kind of
remove themselves from the running, and so you kind of
look at as, oh, it's you have to get if
you're going to get in by virtue of the plan,
or even like their top six right now is we
record this so having to fend off the Magic to Hawks,
the Bulls, the Sixers.
Speaker 2: That's not going to scare you. It's like they might.
Speaker 1: It's not even just well they made they might just
be a top six team, so they don't even have
to get in by way of the plan. And I
think this trade, if you weren't going to have Butler
increases that.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: The only thing I'm uneasy about too is just like
you need to give up a second round pick to
get off a PJ.
Speaker 2: Tucker to make up some of the salary difference there.
Speaker 1: Then and then with I think you need to give
up what a twenty thirty first round and by the way,
you were right on the first round pick protections. It's
unprotected in twenty seven, so there is some I like
that even better for the heat. And then you also
to give up the twenty thirty one second less favorable
of your owner Indianas to grease the wheels of like
Utah's end of this. I also like part of me
sort of wanted but you have Rosier and hero like
would Shruder have made more sense here? But I think,
just under the circumstances, solid deal for Miami. I did
want to talk to you about the Pistons on this
one too, since we're not really going to get to
them later.
Speaker 2: I loved this for them.
Speaker 1: I mean at first, like they had the ability if
they wanted to, because kJ Martin fit into the room exception,
Like they could have done.
Speaker 2: All of this.
Speaker 1: So you gave up no key players, let you get
two additional seconds, and you ended up sending one to you.
You end up sending a twenty twenty eight second in Utah,
so your plus one second round pick, and then you
get Dennis Shrewder. How many times did we suggest, like,
do they just take him into cap space if the
Warriors are looking to duck attacks. That's I don't know,
by the way, I don't know if you give credit
to the Warriors that, like, well, they clearly decided not
to duck attacks.
Speaker 2: Yeah this season. So but I loved it.
Speaker 1: Lindy Water is like he's an actual guy. We view
him as sort of this siren song here as a joke,
but he's someone who could be useful if you want
another shooter on the floor who can space and move
and do a little bit of stuff on the ball.
So I just really thought this was maybe fans had
higher expectations for their use of their cap space. But
I think Dennis Shrewder you have to kind of maybe
not cancel it all out. But I'm not looking at
what he did in Golden State as sort of a
harbinger of what's to come, because like he's you're not
running as many picking rolls there, like that's their motion
based offense, and so in Detroit they run more picking
rolls there. I think, especially you know, if he's gonna
be running units without Kate, I think he will look
better in Detroit than he did Golden State.
Speaker 3: It would be hard for him to look worse than
he did in Golden State, right, Like, I just think, yeah,
like wouldn't some part of you and maybe Piston's fans
would feel this way too, been a little disappointed if
they had just used that cap space to be like
a way station for unwanted salary, and in that hypothetical,
maybe you do get these two second rounders or or
something approximating that for that money. But they got a
guy they really need at a position that they're real
thin at, and a guy that should probably be pretty
good for the rest of this year for them, certainly,
you know, is an upgrade on who they were trotting
out to run second units since Jade and Ivy got hurt,
so like they use the cap space to get the
assets that you'd want and then got a guy that
they really need. So yeah, I was very high. It's
hard to compare, like, you know, the scale of the
Butler acquisition to oh the Pistons got shrewder. But it's
just a question of like, well, what were each team's
goals and resources, and the Pistons, like I did at
least as well as any other team we've talked about
so far, and really just considering what was possible, did
extremely well. I think, just like comparing them to anyone
in the league.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also when you look at the trade deadline
in totality, you don't look at anything and say, oh,
why weren't they team that did that, yeah, hype deal
and so did not have to give up any Like
you're again plus one second round pick with at minimum
a guy and Dennis Shruder who went healthy can play a.
Speaker 2: Bunch of mintage for you. So I thought they made that.
Speaker 1: Well, here, this trade's a little bit less complicated to tackle,
mister Hughes, you want to take us through brandon Ingram
to Toronto.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so brandon Ingram did in fact get traded, so
New Orleans sent him. And by the way, the extension
information that if you're watching this on the graphic is
important because that has been just the hang up for
trading brandon Ingram. He can sign a three year, one
hundred and forty four million extension until June thirtieth. After that,
four for up to two oh nine, five for up
to two sixty nine. So Toronto onboards that, and who knows,
there's got to be an agreement in place as far
as what they're going to pay him, and everybody's happy
with that, I guess. So in order to move him,
New Orleans took back Bruce Brown Junior, who's expiring, Kelly Olenok,
who's got thirteen and a half million on the books
for next year, and Indiana's twenty twenty six first round
pick that has top six protection through twenty twenty seven,
then becomes a couple seconds from Utah in twenty seven,
or is that right? The Utah twenty seven and Dallas
twenty eight. That's what we'll be conveyed. If that first
isn't conveyed, I mean, what are your initial thoughts on this.
We haven't talked about this at all. I'm curious where
you are on.
Speaker 1: It, uh, from Toronto's perspective, because we have a big
super blockbuster to cover for New Orleans after this. Just
looking at I what is Toronto doing? And I don't
mean that in a way of I think this is
a terrible trade. But you traded O G in Pascal
Siakam last year, but then you end up trading a
first round pick at last year's deadline still as well
as this one, and effectively now the trade tree for
Pascal Siakam is brandon Ingram Jacoby Walter And oh my god,
what am I missing from the I'm missing an element
of that.
Speaker 2: I'm blanking on it right now.
Speaker 3: But Brown came and went, so that's part of it. Yeah,
I'm trying to now. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: But it's just like it's just such a bizarre path
for them to follow at this moment, and I don't like,
I don't hate it, and just like having another playmaking
wing is not a bad thing. I'm just so curious
to see what the fit is when you have a
Manuel quickly Scottie Barnes, R. J. Barrett, like all Manuel
quickly can definitely play off the ball, but he prefers
to be on the balls. Like those are four guys
that want to be on the ball, none of whom
just based off their pay grades.
Speaker 2: You can't just and it's certainly not.
Speaker 1: Gonna be Scotty. You can't just say okay, go to
the bench until that creates some complications. And then I
do like that they held on to Chris Bouschet as
part of this. But it's like your primary center is
not a spacing center, so you have Brandon Ingram, who
prefers to get to mid range. He did up his
three point volume this year. But I really think for
this to work, like it seems like a good value
playing a vacuum right for what they gave up, Like
there's not a ton of upside to that first round
pick that they send out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I that's a factor. I think just the I
don't know, it's weird. I think Ingram being attached to
this like I want a max extension has caused us,
and certainly me because I've never been the biggest brand
Inger fan, big news flash. But like the guy was
a fairly legit all star. He's good, been good for
twenty plus, he's been good for five assists for half
a decade, Like he's a good player, Like he's a
clear starting caliber wing in the league. That honestly, if
he would just do all the stuff we wanted him
to do, shoot more threes, would we wouldn't have any
fit questions. I don't think if he was just like,
I don't know, thirty percent, thirty percent higher volume from three,
I think we're just like kind of done complaining about
what he does offensively, or at least less apt to
do that.
Speaker 2: So I like it.
Speaker 3: For Toronto. I take your point and I agree with
it that it's just kind of like this is a
team that's just not on board with a hard reset
very obviously. Like you can trace that back to we
want quickly and bear it in the Ananobe deal. We
want players and then they essentially, you know, they pay quickly.
This is a team messiu Jerry has had, you know,
he had comments shortly after they made those moves last
year it was just like, we'll win here again, like
that We're not. This was never going to be a
hard reset, And I guess if that's if that's your intention,
we can debate, like the wisdom of it. Then Ingram
makes a lot of sense because because it's hard to
get a guy as good as him for a protected
pick expiring salary. And Kelly Allinic, who I think is
kind of a net negative contract.
Speaker 1: He can't do like whatever you thought he could do
on defense, it's like seventy five percent.
Speaker 3: Less, right. I will say for New Orleans a link
is New Orleans is one of the few places a
Linic makes a little bit more sense because he'll space
and if you have zion and you're running your offense
around him, then okay, that's minor check in the positives
column for that. But yeah, the price paid here for
the for the talent is pretty low and now the
additional price will just be that next contract. That's kind
of the hang up for me.
Speaker 1: That's by the way, it was Akbaji, So it's would
you rather Yakham or Akbaji like on his current contract,
let's say, or or akbajiromen Ja Kobe Walter.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I like this season.
Speaker 1: The answer is pretty easy, yeah, Like like if you're
trying to look at it through the total of the deal,
and I think I'm curious to see what the fit
is going to be they could still reorient the roster.
But this is also not like if he left in
free agency, they didn't give up a back breaking him out,
but you did give up a first round pick, so
you are somewhat pot committed. Toronto has not historically squeezed
its own free agents. But I also look at the
market saying, well, Brooklyn's not gonna sign him, so where's
he gonna try and go?
Speaker 2: And you're almost not not.
Speaker 1: That you should squeeze him, but like you should play
hardball to the extent of if he wants to leave,
it needs to be through you, like he needs you
need to facilitate a sign in trade. So maybe they
get assets on his way out. But I I'm really
fascinated to see how much he gets because if it's
like if he ends up getting like thirty or thirty
five million a year, like that will make this trade
look a heck of a lot better. I mean, even
if he signed the extension, he's eligible four right now
with UH Toronto three and one forty four, it's so
it's like so short that I would be sort of
okay with it, And just from a talent play, I
like it I just don't know, Like you were right,
this was never gonna be a hard reset for Toronto
because of what they prioritized in OG and just like
Scotty got paid and it's not and even now and
this is part of the benefit of getting off Kelly olynok,
like they have avenues to just resign brandon Ingram and
still be under the tax next year. So again I
don't hate it. I'm just so confused by what's happening here,
and I hope we get to see it in practice
because brand Ingram hasn't played in over basically two months
at this point. I'm just curious, Like Toronto though there's
no incentive, like they're not gonna make they have no
real chance of getting into the plan from the east, right,
they're five losses out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they got a long way to go, so they
might not.
Speaker 1: Play him a ton if at all, and that makes
it even harder to pay him, right.
Speaker 3: Right, I will I will highlight here because we've talked
about two big trades here and we've liked them on
both sides for both teams. Uh, And I think that's
a real I found myself feeling that way about a
lot of trades today and the ones that have already happened, Like,
I don't know what that means, And maybe teams are
getting smarter about just like trading with the right partners,
so it's actually possible to have mutually beneficial deals. But
I like this for Toronto, like don't don't love it.
Don't love it for Toronto, don't love it for New Orleans,
like it for both.
Speaker 2: I would say, rather than like it, I don't actively loathe.
Speaker 3: It, right because usually it's like, oh, somebody fleeced somebody else,
or it's clear who the winner is if you're doing
like trade winners and losers. Is harder this year because
there's just so many deals that are like, yeah, it
makes sense for them, makes sense for them. Their priorities
are different, and they kind of both achieved some of them,
you know what I mean. Like I think that'll continue
as we go through some of these trades.
Speaker 1: I did before we talk we should talk a little
bit about New Orleans. I did just want to ask
you that could you see there being I know they're
different players, but like RJ. Barrett was a lot of
the times viewed as a ball stopper, even though you
could see him get out in transition in New York,
but he comes to Toronto and like he's playing with
more heads of steam or moving away from the ball more.
Do you think that there's even a chance Brandon Ingram
is going to benefit from that? Or has it been
with RJ? It was he was in so many different
New York ecosystems. You never got that sentence With Brandon Ingram,
It's been kind of no. They've tried to get him
to do this stuff and he's either never did it
or did they just never try it enough with him.
Speaker 3: I think there's always a possibility because I mean the Lakers,
Brandon Ingram was just so early on that it's hard
to say like, well he was this way then. I
mean kind of but like a change of scenery, I
guess is what I'm saying, always has the chance to
do that. Ingram's tendencies feel a little more ingrained than
Barrett's did, or they like feel like more organic to
him as opposed to being like a product of like
what am I supposed to do here?
Speaker 2: I think he could change.
Speaker 1: Like following his own principles, and so there's there might
just be more of a you know, attachment to the like,
oh I succeeded, I made an All star game?
Speaker 2: Play this way? Why would I play differently?
Speaker 3: Easier for him to take the stance of like this works.
You can't tell me to change, you know, than it
was for Barrett.
Speaker 2: But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it's possible, optimistically that he he does do
the stuff we've been asking him to do so for
New Orleans.
Speaker 1: And just before we dig into just the like what
you think they got how they differ brand Ingram? They
also did trade twenty thirty one second round pick to
Oka see along with Daniel Tye. That's how they initially
ducked the tax. That's an f trade by the way,
like because you couldn't figure out how to duck the
tax as part of a larger trade with Brandon Ingram
here and you gave up a twenty thirty one second
round pick.
Speaker 2: Less favorable of New Orleans and Orlando. CJ.
Speaker 1: McCollum's still there, Zion Williamson is still there. Their season
has been just absolutely torpedoed. What did you make of
if it's really the brand? We knew that them ducking
the tax was like that was the most inevitable thing
of the trade deadline, right, yeah.
Speaker 3: And they didn't do it. I guess maybe Tye was
I think, what are we? We thought Javonte Green would
be the one to do it and that we get
something for.
Speaker 2: Hund pick for but you know what, they might just
need him to play at this point.
Speaker 3: They're so maybe maybe so Yeah. I was actually the
most surprised that the thunder waved tys after this, because
I was ready to start talking about oh that makes
sense a little, a little front cord depth, like you know,
he might give you eight to ten minutes, that's coming back.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest trade deadline acquisition of all maybe so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I actually so. I think if
you want to be critical of New Orleans, you could
point to this, and you could point to like the
things they didn't do. I've kind of stayed away from
that just because I don't know what was out there. Like,
can I criticize them for McCollum still being on the roster,
Like yeah, I guess, but like who's clamoring to give
you something worthwhile for him?
Speaker 1: I think the bigger issue for me is that, And
you can ding them a little. I gave them a
C plus on the Ingram deal, which is what I
gave Toronto. So it's not like, like I said, I
didn't love it or loathe it necessarily for I understood
it from either side. But like the Ingram decision, it
took too long to get made and it should have
been made well before this. I'm not even talking about
this trade to I'm talking about before this past offseason,
like when everything became sort of muddied, and that's what's
so confusing. And now I'm just I'm very curious to see,
like following the Jente Murray Achilles injury, which it doesn't
just submarine this season, but it really could torpedo next
year as well. I'm not saying they needed to move
McCullum or needed to move Zion, but like they couldn't
even get the small victory of like you thought they
were probably gonna get Chris Bouchet the expiring money and
someone who's spaces and maybe is definitely gonna do more
on Deef then Olnick and no, you have to take
on Olytics money for next year.
Speaker 2: So that's fairly uninspired.
Speaker 1: But I don't know what, like maybe it depends on
where are they just going to base it off of
where they land in a lottery this year. Grant, I
just don't This return doesn't make me this more so,
I look at it and say, they just didn't want
to pay Brandon Ingram.
Speaker 2: They didn't even want to try and squeeze them.
Speaker 1: And I guess you could read into that and say
they might be prepared to really go nuclear over the offseason,
but I honestly don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think zoomed all the way out getting
a first with light protections on it for Ingram, who
just was never going to be back, and you might
have just had to you could grit your teeth and
risk getting sign and trade value for him. I think
I had both of them in like the B minor
C range. I think both Toronto and New Orleans so
not We're We're pretty aligned on that one.
Speaker 1: Nothing really else for the Pelicans here, but they are.
I feel bad for fans of that. They for Elkans
fans and their franchise are just absolutely cursed. This is
a deal, Grant, that we're gonna get to Mark Williams
to the Lakers, where I don't know that I've ever
differed on consensus more but the trade is the Charlotte
Hornets get Dalton connect, who everyone likes to point out
is actually older than Mark Williams. Grant, How cool is
that Cam Reddish a twenty thirty first round swap and
the Lakers twenty thirty one first round pick unprotected. The
Lakers are getting Mark, he who has played in fewer
games than he's missed since entering the league. Williams, how
what are your thoughts about this trade?
Speaker 3: So I have it's interesting because I I graded the
Lakers as a whole and so they're in A plus
because of the Luca trade. And they could have like
done literally anything five terrible trades and they still would
have gotten an A plus because they got Luca.
Speaker 2: This is a lot for Mark spoiler alert, This is.
Speaker 3: A lot for Mark Williams, right, Like we can agree
on that for a guy that, like what's his most
I mean, like what's he's good for? I think it's
like sixteen and ten or fifteen and nine, shooting a
great lob threat. His his rim protection numbers are terrible
this year if they've been better in the past.
Speaker 1: Since you brought it up up, hidden here is where
Mark Williams. Mark Williams has never ranked he's ranked out.
He's ranked above average as a rim protector when it
comes to defensive field goal percentage expected at the rim.
He's ranked as above average room protector once throughout his career.
That was his rookie season and this year Grant he's
in the thirty nine percent time.
Speaker 3: Could I could I if I were a Mark Williams defender,
I would I would encounter with Well every single year
of his career has been a small sample size, so
because he never plays so yet no, Like, I just
so from the Lakers perspective, I understand the theory, which
is to say, this guy can go up and get
a lob and if you're playing with Luka Doncic, you're
gonna shoot seventy eight percent from the field and you're
gonna get five bunks a game and you'll look good
that way. I just I think to give up. I
know they're way out in the future and you just
got Lucas, so your future first rounders maybe are all
devalued now if things go well with him. So I okay, maybe,
but this is a guy that's like we don't even
know if he's a rotation big guy on a good
team because he's never been on a good team, and
all we know for sure is like good counting numbers
I guess, and scoring efficiency in an extremely limited role
for a bad team. The Luca trade gives you so
much cover, but that is so clearly a one off,
isolated nobody knows what happened there kind of deal that
this feels more like a just crazy Lakers reach to me.
Speaker 1: I thank you, because I understand he's town. He's very
dynamic on offense.
Speaker 3: He works great, like he passes the eye test all
the time if you just catch him on the right nights.
Speaker 1: And you need him to go in like sort of
a straight line, like the way he could move for
his size, and he's guardanguan. I recognize there's a ton
of upside here, but between him being injury prone the
real defensive issues that look, I'll eat my words if
it's he gets Oh, he doesn't play in Charlotte anymore, Bump,
I just don't like. Are you going to blame the
availability on that too? And he's also going to be
extension eligible this summer. You could argue the injuries help
repress his value, but he has all sorts of leverage
after you gave up this much to get him, and
so I recognize you needed a big I recognize he's
an excellent fit nets to Luga Dancics on offense, but
like and I saw a lot of this rationalizing. Well,
if you look at it in some of they gave
up Dalton connect this pick, the swap the other pick
Max Christie and Anthony Davis for Luca. It's a win, right, Yes,
it is a win, but you don't like Luca gave
you a margin for error and you don't just get.
Speaker 2: To exhaust it, you just use it up off of it.
And I don't think that's what the Lakers did here.
Speaker 1: I'm interested to see kind of how it pans out,
and I do reckon again Luca diminishes the value of
that twenty thirty one first round pick, but like Mark
Williams was the like, I guess it, it speaks to
them trying to make something of this season. Look quite frankly,
I'm surprised that Nico Harrison didn't give them Derek Lively
for this trade package. The way things are, like, the
way things have gone so far, I just don't Maybe
it pans out, but I think my biggest concern would
be even the best version of Mark Williams and the
most durable version of Mark Williams.
Speaker 2: Do you think, like, what would be the percentage chance.
Speaker 1: That you give him of actively elevating a really good
defense ever, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: Just trying to think, like it's not high. I'm just
trying to think, like what would he need to do
to justify really two firsts. I know it's a swap,
but it's it's it's so far out that like you
really don't know that you're gonna be like this. It
might who knows who's benefiting from that? And a number
seventeen pick and Connect to I think what was the
stat he was the high the highest first rounder to
be traded in his rookie year since Buddy healed, And like,
I think shorting Connect is a decent bet. You probably
should have done it after he made a million threes
a couple of months ago.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I just Williams has to be really, really, really good
and a plus defender to justify this, and I just
and stay healthy. There's like so many ifs that he
has to satisfy for this to look like a good
deal for the Lakers. The counter is just Luca will
make him awesome on offense. But then the counter to
the counter is like could make a lesser player look great,
He'll make everybody look great. So the defensive side of
this is a huge question Mark and the best bet
for the Lakers is that Mark Williams, who got eviscerated
by their own by the Hornets studio team for just
like dogging it in their most recent game, is a
different level of defender on a new team, and maybe
that happens, maybe it doesn't. I don't know why you'd
be confident that that was gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I will say there's good and I'm not. This is
not me even being an asshole. I'm genuinely saying this.
Either the people who loved this trade or the Lakers
fans who loved this trade have not watched enough of
Mark Williams play, or I have not watched enough of
Mark Williams play. And you know what, Grant, either's a
legit possibility because Mark Williams doesn't really play. So we
have to talk about the Hornets, a team that I
think flew under the radar this deadline because they make
another move.
Speaker 2: So we'll talk about selling on Mark Williams.
Speaker 1: But also they acquired use of Nurkic and a twenty
six first round pick from Phoenix, which is just the
least favorable of Memphis, Orlando.
Speaker 2: Phoenix in Washington, that team's a fucking joke man.
Speaker 1: In exchange for Cody Martin Vasamisic and a twenty twenty
six second round pick, it's gonna be the least favorable
of Denver and Golden State. We you talk about the
hornetson some I love the like the fact that they
just have They've Musa Diabathe there and now Nurkic is
just their primary bigs and TOADJ.
Speaker 2: Gibson.
Speaker 1: Of course, I like the idea, and I think more
teams should do this. Of if you don't think that
this is the guy and he's still on his rookie contract,
sell high on him.
Speaker 2: And I think they did that.
Speaker 1: Yes, you can say that Lakers pick is going to
be in the twenties and they're never gonna use that swap.
Speaker 2: They got a lottery ticket on Dalton.
Speaker 1: Connect just someone who we know at least can space
with volume and hit them at a reasonable clip on
catch and shoot threes.
Speaker 2: And now you have that.
Speaker 1: It's not just about what is that twenty thirty pick,
twenty thirty one pick become. It's you can dangle that
in future trades. And finally, and I think this spills
into the Nurkic trade as well. The fact that they
just come out of this deadline plus two first round picks.
It reinforces what both you and I said at last
tread date, trade deadline and over the offseason. This franchise
is thinking in bigger picture terms. That is not something
that was ever done or at least not done enough
during the Michael Jordan certainly the Mitch Cupcheck era when
he was running the front office as well. And so
I've liked, basically with the exception of keeping and how
they handled the Miles Bridge situation and then what they
paid him, I've loved a lot of what this.
Speaker 2: Franchise has done.
Speaker 1: And you can argue they've already paid LaMelo and Brenda
Miller's done for the year. T John Salon doesn't necessarily
look like he's gonna pan out, so where you kind
of still feel stranded, but they're not overreacting to that.
Speaker 2: They've taken this.
Speaker 1: Gradual view review and I appreciate the hell out of it,
And I think what makes it easier for me to
say that is I think they got you know, taking
on Nurkic that extra year, but like he just becomes
an expiring contract next year, you could move all over again.
So I think it helps that they probably got good
value out of what they did just the view of it,
but like they got good value out of what they
moved and what they took in.
Speaker 3: They had no business getting out of this this deadline
with the assets they got out of it with I
think I just echo what you said, and I would
I would add too that like while the earlier season
injury to LaMelo and then Brandon Miller going down for
the year sort of made the decision process like it
made it pretty clear, like at least for this year,
like what your goals should be because it's a lost season,
you know, bummer. But I can remember, you know, preseason
looking at this roster and you know, kind of thinking
like I don't know that this might could I would
shudder to think where we went on their over unders.
But like there was a Miles Bridges, Miller gets better,
Lamello's healthy, Mark Williams and Nick Richards a couple of
good set like you could talk yourself into speaking as like,
if you were management, we might be all right, Like
we might not be in a position where we're taking
on bad you know, bad money to get first and
think about what's happening in twenty six and twenty thirty
one and whatever. Like, I think it's just refreshing because
this is how this is. This management group understands the assignment,
and it's not necessarily the easiest call when you already
have Lamello on his you know, rookie scale deal on
his big deal now, and you also got Brandon Miller
and you like him. The temptation to chase like short
term gratification was one that previous management succme to all
the time and would have been justifiable here. I think
in some you know, if you spun it a certain way,
so really really good deadline by the Hornets, I think
everybody should be encouraged by sort of like the whole
what the thought process has been for them?
Speaker 2: What do you make of the suns here?
Speaker 1: And just as a quick recap for them, they get
Cody Martin, who we love although we really wanted to
see him on a Contender and now he won't be
a mesitch and that twenty twenty six second round pick.
I had trouble because this is what I want to
ask you. I think you could say, oh, it only
took one first round pick to get off Nurkicez, like
he wasn't playing. He's on the books for nineteen plus
million next year. Now have kind of a pathway to
ducking the second apron. Cody Martin is a non guaranteed
salary message is a team option for next year. But
I have trouble separating it from they traded their twenty
thirty one pick to open up the pick that they
just traded, and they had nothing more meaningful lined up
than this deal.
Speaker 3: Phoenix's side of this deadline is really hard to evaluate
because I think we both agree that they're kind of
going after they've been going after the wrong thing for
you know, basically since ownership changed at the same time,
like they are trying to get better and they're using
every like shred of asset they have to do it,
and I think Cody Martin hypothetically helps them. I think
getting off a Nurkic makes sense, you know. I think
there's a way you could say that that the Suns
like improve themselves at the deadline and that's their only goal,
and so they like good for them, but it's just
wrapped into the bigger package of like just everything they're
doing is stupid and short sighted, and like you have
Ramona Shelburn talking about things are toxic there now. It's
just like you can see the cliff coming and they're
just they sped up towards it. And so like, I
don't really know how to evaluate their deadline. Are you
of the opinion that just like, well, do you even
agree that, like, okay, if you if you put your
Phoenix Sun's like glasses on, they did well because they
got a little better and they added Martin who might help.
Or is it just like the big picture is just
you guys are ruining it.
Speaker 1: One I'm wording se how much they actually play Martin
because I'm wondering if sort of his if he three
point shooting. But I think when you look at their
individual moves for the most part, the Nick Richards deal,
of course, that was fine. Yep, this deal, I think
that was fine. But this one specifically is inextricably linked
to them giving up their twenty thirty one first round pick,
which if you're telling me they did that, and they
had they had an idea that they weren't going to
get Jimmy Butler, or they knew they weren't going to
get them, and they also kind of knew that they
were gonna like the Kevin Durant trade talks apparently started
two weeks ago, right, so what is it? That's not
even use the word short sided, which it is. It's also
kind of stupid then that you traded your twenty thirty
one first round pick with all this uncertainty in the air,
because why did you need to make that move then,
unless you thought you were about to cross the Jimmy
Bocker finish.
Speaker 3: Line, which which you should have known too. Like, it's
so bizarre to me that they didn't just go to
Bradley Beal a month ago or before that and say,
will you are you gonna wave your no trade clause?
Because it eventually developed it like he's just it's a no,
I'm not gonna do that, right, and then they should
have operated with that understanding. And then the follow up
question is, hey, Kevin Durant, like do you want to
be traded? And if so, where and if he says no,
and nowhere. Then you can't go do that pick split
up thing. Like I just it feels like there there
was a more rational course of action they could have
taken if they'd just gotten like concrete answers on some
core questions. Because now this all feels disjointed. So as
we're talking, I'm getting more negative about what they did.
Even if I think, like you separate all the moves
out into it's like, okay, those are all sort of justifiable.
It's just the position you've gotten yourself into is just
objectively bad.
Speaker 2: They're they're careening off the edge to nowhere.
Speaker 1: And I guess my final question you would be if
this was a situation where Kevin Durant told you he's
not going to sign an extension unless you go out
and get Jimmy Butler. We now know they didn't get
Jimmy Butler, so forget about that. But if that's the
ultimatum he gave you, why are you then not trading
Kevin Durant?
Speaker 3: Right, Because what you're saying is like this is this
story's going to end one way, and it's going to
be you trading Kevin Durant from a position of very
little leverage.
Speaker 2: Which by the way, is how this ends this offseason?
Speaker 3: Right? Maybe?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just.
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the happy ending is to this.
And it's amazing how fast, like think about this team
has been together for like a year, Like I mean,
that's an exaggeration, but it's just like this thing has
gone completely sideways, real quickly. And it's because of just
like a series of decisions that have you know, kind
of culminated now in a deadline that Okay, Booker, Durant,
and bil are all still here. We've like shuffled the
deck chairs, but otherwise, you know, we're out some more firsts.
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you a bonus question too, because
the most pushback I've seen in comments or when I've
like skeeded about this, why is giving up knowing what
they did? You're twenty thirty one first rounder. That's five
six drafts away whatever to six drafts away. Why is
that a bad deal when you got three more imminent
first rounders back.
Speaker 3: Well, One, because it's evidence of like a half formed
plan that you didn't execute, which was we're going to
use those for Butler, and two the upside on those
future firsts are is low and that twenty thirty one
is just more valuable because of how high of a
picket could be, right like that? I mean, so I
will say I dumped on the verbiage of like they
unlocked their other picks in the draft, which what they
did they moved that twenty six first, which they couldn't
have if they hadn't split that twenty thirty one into
the twenty five, twenty seven, twenty nins. So I'll take
that back. Yeah, that was that was something that they
enabled themselves to do. But like, is there another answer
to why that was a bad move or like we
hit hit both of them because you didn't use it
for Butler and you just gave up the highest upside asset.
Speaker 2: And you also, what you just did is just gave
up more of your future for when this inevitably goes
to shit without making the move, like that was the
whole reason you would break up these picks. Is that?
Speaker 1: And the bigger thing is is not one of those picks.
I know you mentioned that Kevin Pelton said the average
value of those three picks together would be like what's
sixth overall or something, which.
Speaker 3: I wasn't persuaded by but yeah, that's what he gamed out, and.
Speaker 1: It's just one that's like, okay, do you trust this?
Like I know they drafted Ryan Dunn, but like, are
you trusting them to hit on every single one of
these picks? There's just there's no pick with a high upside.
You gave up your highest upside asset for a bunch
of low upside assets that you then used to dump
salary and get one rotation player if that. So that's
why it's bad, speaking well of not bad, because we're
going to start here with the Cleveland Cavaliers grant. But
do you want to go through the DeAndre Hunter trade?
Speaker 2: Bro?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the Cavs get DeAndre Hunter. That's all. They
gave up carousel Vert on an expiring deal. George Niang
got eight point two million next year, a twenty twenty
six first round swap, and a twenty twenty eight first
round swap, so those would be the they've already swapped
those so with with Utah in the Mitchell trade. So
it's basically the least favorable of Cleveland, Utah's pick and
Washington's pick on the twenty six and then Cleveland and
Utah's on the twenty eight. In addition, they gave up
three seconds twenty seven to twenty nine and thirty one.
This to me, tell me what you think. Is there
a move made by an Eastern Conference team that figures
to have a bigger impact on like who wins the
championship this year than this one?
Speaker 1: I think you can make the case that no other
move is going to have a bigger impact because what
other pittactor made a trade?
Speaker 3: That's the thing? You You just I don't know what
we're what we're digging for, Like I guess Jimmy Butler,
like there's just.
Speaker 2: Or is it Anthony Damis in Dallas? If you ask Nco?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how good do you think Lucas gonna make the Lakers?
This was This is a fascinating trade. So which side
do you want to talk about for? Do you have
strong feelings about? Like? Is Hunter worth this?
Speaker 1: I have incredibly strong famis about Atlanta. But we have
to cover another trade from them, So let's start with
Cleveland to get someone who might just be a part
of your closing unit while not giving up a first
round pick, and while ducking the tax this year, which
now probably emboldened you to say, hey, we carros Lavert
coming off the books. We could have ressigned Hi Jerome
and kind of still toe stepped it beneath the tax
next year. But no, you've kind of blown past that.
I respect the hell out of it. I recognize DeAndre Hunter.
I don't even think his defensive reputation is inflated. I
think people just look at him. He's six 's eight,
seven to two wingspan and say, oh, that dude's three
and d I don't think he always checks the D box.
He can be pretty good in individual situations. However, he
has won cleaned up his offensive play style a lot.
The shot profile is better and his true shooting percentages,
but you can also still do a little bit off
the dribble. The bigger thing to me is this is
a classic example of what it's like in a different situation.
His defense in Atlanta is maybe blah, but your defense
in Cleveland, when you have Isaaca cord or Chase around
Smalls and then Evan Mobley and or Jared Allen behind
you at all times is ideal. So we've that was
their weak point really, in so far as they had one.
And I think the final thing before I throw it
to you. It's easier to get him to just slide
up to the forest part of one big units and
feel good about it in the playoffs and saying we're
gonna play George Niang or we're gonna move Max Strus
up or even Dean Wade or you know, Heaven forbid,
like Isaaca Korro in that instance. So I think this
is I loved. There's some risk here.
Speaker 2: You gave up the swaps. I don't care about you.
Those are already like whatever the second.
Speaker 1: Round picks, okay, But like, this is your best chance
to win a title ever without Lebron and you're seizing it.
Speaker 2: And I respect the hell out of it. And I
think it just helps that.
Speaker 1: You know, I was reporting that said Atlanta would have
killed to get this package at the beginning of the year.
DeAndre Hunter substantially more valuable now a few months later,
and I think you could question will he be able
to play the same role on a better team where
the volume might be lower. I really do think the
type of offense that he's played this season, certainly coming
off the bench, of course, it will scale to a
more minute role.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I do agree. You've got to acknowledge
it's possible that the previous five years of Hunter's career
are more indicative of his true talent than the half
season he's played so far. At the same time, he
has made changes, and I think the changes he's made
specifically with respect to like he's a good catch and
shoot three point shooter, now, like that's you're not going
to be asked to do a whole lot more on
this Cleveland team that already is one of the best
offenses we've ever seen. So I think, like, I don't
know that he's the exact answer to the type of player,
the exact player we've been just begging the Cavs to
try to find, which is just give me a pure
three that's gonna make open threes and guard the other
team's best player. He's not really that, But I do think,
as you said, his ability to play the four just
kind of it just unlocks a lot of good options,
and he will be a better, you know, option against
three and four sized guys than LeVert, who was playing
really good defense and was shooting it better then then Hunter.
So far, he's over.
Speaker 2: Four cut into hit.
Speaker 1: I know Lvert just came back, I think, but like
Ty Jerome was cut into his playing time. That's the
other thing is you do like LeVert really is more
of a two that can handle the ball as a one,
which you don't need on this team at all, because Garland, Mitchell, Jeron,
like there's plenty of that.
Speaker 3: So you could think LeVert is the better player, like
you wouldn't be crazy, but not on this team, I
don't think. And so Hunter, I think provides a ton
of value. And yeah, I don't care about least favorable swaps,
like big deal, Like that's you've already given those up
so three seconds. And the other thing is LeVert was
gonna hit free agency. You might have had to just
let him walk. That's another thing. So that you know Niang,
I don't really see a realistic scenario where Niang is
playing major postseason minutes for you. So that's another kind
of zero loss aspect of this trade. You're more expensive,
I guess because you're gonna have to fill that other
roster spot and Hunter's on the books and he's more
expensive than Lavert, but he might not cost more than
Lavert was going to cost. So I just it's kind
of a win across the board for the Calves, and
that's even if you get I don't know eighty percent
of what Hunter's been this year. I still think it's
just you do this every.
Speaker 1: Time, right, and you might just wonder, Okay, well, what
is he gonna look like in the playoffs. It's just
it's so different because Cleveland is so much more talented,
can insulate him at both ends of the floor. I
do want to ask you, though, because they were linked
to this player, I think we maybe it's not a
good question more because we know what it took to
get Hunter. But if it cost the same, which it
wouldn't have, you would have been out your twenty thirty
one pick. Do you prefer him or Cam Johnson for
this team?
Speaker 3: I think, honestly, it's close enough that all things being equal,
I would I would rather have Johnson, But I don't
think you were getting Johnson for this package, So I
guess I guess I prefer Johnson if I could get
it for the Hunter package, which was just not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but I even think, like if you just would
have told me not even what they got. I said
this to someone next to us on YouTube, and I responded,
I think I lean Hunter.
Speaker 2: It was close, but I think he's better on defense.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to add for the Cavs
before we get into the rest of Atlanta's business before
we talk about.
Speaker 3: Him, No, I think we should move to Atlanta because
I can feel some strong feelings coming from you, and
I'm not sure I totally share all of them.
Speaker 1: So the other one of the other trades they made
is that they sent Cody Zeller to Houston to duck
the tax along with a twenty eight second round pick.
It was Houston's own that helped them get out of
the tacks because the other deal that they made did
not necessarily do that on their own, even though I
think they ended up trimming payroll as part of it.
But the Atlanta Hawks wound up trading bow Dug Bogdanovich
to the Los Angeles Clippers and in return they received
Bones Island and Terrence Man. But also as part of
that trade and Atlanta sent out three second round picks
to the Clippers. Minnesota's twenty twenty five second Memphis is
twenty twenty six second, which is protected forty three to sixty,
so you only get it if it falls in the
top forty two and then they sent out the Clippers
twenty twenty seven second round pick. I understand this deal
since you're waiting for the strong thoughts. For me, I
understand this deal based off how bog Done Bogdanovic has
played this year. He has not been healthy, he has
not been good. So I think you can look at
this and say, that's like a se maybe a solid
sea plus like Terrence Man comes in not gonna give
you necessarily a ton of consistent offense, will defend his
butt off. You have him, resis Jay Dyson Daniels. You
could do some pretty fucky stuff there defensively now, But
he gave up three second round picks. And I think
the bigger thing for me is they don't own their
own pick this year, and yet they seem determined to
surround Trey Young with as little spacing as possible on
the offensive end. Now, and you could say, well, isn't
it admirable to kind of zig and or at least
run your team without regard for a bad mistake that
was already made.
Speaker 2: Sure there is.
Speaker 1: But then I would circle back to the DeAndre Hunter
deal and say if that was the because I've come
around to the idea for the most part, unless you're
the Bulls basically, and maybe even the Kings, I don't
think they looked at better deals and said, you know what, No,
we're gonna take this Cleveland one. However, if that was
the best offer for DeAndre Hunter available, I would have
simply just kept DeAndre Hunter because this is a move
that was more financially driven over the longer term for them.
You go tell me what they're gonna do with that
additional flexibility this year. That's not really gonna be true
cap space probably, and even if it is, what are
you gonna do with it? So I think this was
just a but just a bunch of not even for
the sake of making moves.
Speaker 2: I think this was just a really bad deadline overall
for Atlanta.
Speaker 1: They probably could have made the Bogdanovitch trade on its
own and would and then duck the tax with Zella
and I would have been fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I.
Speaker 1: Just think this team just kind of reinforced itself as
the pinnacle of mediocrity.
Speaker 3: It does feel a little bit that way. I don't
love I didn't love Atlanta's deadline by any stretch. I
just I kind of understand it and they're in a
tough spot because, like you said, they don't control twenty five,
twenty six, twenty seven first rounders. I belong to the Spurs,
and so like, look, that's that's a situation of their
own making. So no sympathy here. But I think just
given those constraints, and given the quality of this team,
which is diminished by Jalen Johnson going down for the year,
like this isn't a team you should pay the tax on.
So I get prioritizing ducking the tax, and and like
I also sort of get even though we just kind
of talked down the swaps in twenty six and twenty eight,
like that's still you could still point to that and say, like,
well it's a little bit of first round, you know, equity.
I guess I think LeVert actually helps them because Bogdanovic
had not been good, because they need other because Kobe
Buffkins hurt, because you need someone else who can dribble,
and as LeVert can do some of that, and you
get a look at him and maybe you bring him back.
Maybe you're just happy with the savings. It's probably the latter.
Given Atlanta's general mo it's not a good deadline The
other thing you can say in favor of Atlanta is
that they probably traded Hunter at the peak of his value. Now,
maybe they should have gotten more for him if he's
at the peak of his value. It's kind of just
a blah move for me, or a deadline for me.
But I'll acknowledge this disappointing that it's just like, yeah,
they just wanted to duck the tax and we're probably
willing to take kind of suboptimal packages to do that.
Speaker 2: Do you feel me differently?
Speaker 1: And I would say more positively or more negatively one
way one way or the other about their deadline Following
the report from Chris Haynes, I think was on NBA
TV afterwards and said, stuff between Trey Young and the
organization is weird.
Speaker 2: Now was that?
Speaker 3: What did he say that? After in like twenty twenty
one and twenty twenty two and the annual Trey Young report.
Speaker 1: Now it's the clock starts to tick because Trey Young
has after this season just a year, like we could
talk extensions for Trey Young.
Speaker 2: That's always sort of the timetable.
Speaker 1: But independent of that, it's, oh, he has one more
year left on his deal forty six million and then
he has a player option for forty nine million after that,
so we have scheduled for free agency in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean, look, if you want to get
back on level ground as far as your picks are concerned,
moving Young makes sense. You might get three first back
for all of.
Speaker 2: Who you're not You're not getting your own anymore.
Speaker 3: That's no, you're definitely not. Who knows. I mean ooh, yeah,
that is low key a huge bummer for the Hawks.
That that that the Spurs did get a point guard
that there they won't have an answering Young. Yeah, I
mean that's inevitable. I think. I think if you start
piecing together like stars most likely to move going forward,
Young has to be pretty high on that list. And
I have had him there for a long time. Yeah.
That that that. I don't know how much that changes
my opinion because it's just kind of like, yeah, that's
priced in. But I guess Young does give you kind
of like Booker I guess does in Phoenix, like there's
a ripcord to pull, I guess, which will make your
landing a little softer. But it's a problem that you're
like thinking of things in those terms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't. Do you look at any of
these deals.
Speaker 1: I mean the Cody Zeller one is, ah, they ducked
attacks and it only cost them a distant first round
pick that was Houston's, but a second round pick. Excuse me,
Like you don't look at either of these two deals
and say they want it. I guess you could say
Bogdanovic an event, but you had to send out three
second round picks. Yeah, you only had one guaranteed year
left on his deal. And Terrence Man, I know he's
a little he's younger, but he's like a dead even
money relative to what Bogdanovich was making next year's I
think he's slightly cheaper. I just don't even look at
that as you couldn't come out of this deal and
say like, oh, like this clearly made a boatload of sense.
And I guess to your point about Lavert being valuable
to them, did they acquire him with the intention to
because you could say, oh, Bogdanovic was expendable because the
way Lavert's been shooting it better defender and at least
probably better passer too.
Speaker 2: So like the better player right now? Do you trust
it that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Is the play and to pay Kris Lavert, and if
it is, that's wildly uninspired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think you've gotta to justify it from
or if you think this was these were good moves
by Atlanta, you've got to be convinced that Bogdanovic is
washed and you don't want to be on the hook
for two more years after this one with him. And
then you've also got to have like a pretty serious
intention to keep Lavert. Even then it's kind of like, well,
this was all still pretty clearly just financially motivated, and
that's hard to get inspired by that.
Speaker 1: Or I guess the if I had to undermine my
own take, they have more information on DeAndre Hunter, who's
at a checkered health bill in the past, they might
just have no faith in DeAndre Hunter continuing to play
at a six man of a year level.
Speaker 3: Lovis forward, which not a crazy stance to have.
Speaker 2: The Clipper side of this, and this is in tandem.
Speaker 1: I did talk about this myself, like they ducked attack
to that initial PJ Talker trade. I will say I
saw some stuff going around that I don't know if
it was Clippers fans or just general media media people
or block people podcasters saying, well, why did they just
make the move for like Davion Mitchell and Duct attacks
that way? And I found that interesting. I think you
Banks has a chance of actually filling a need more
than David like you have Chris done on this team.
He's just all these like defensive like perimeter like guys
who are awesome at doing that. So I didn't have
an issue with that. But they make that move Duct
attacks and they go out and make this move Grant.
I also think by the way the Davion Mitchell stuff,
maybe Brogden doesn't get a buy out from Washington because
he wants to keep his bird rights and even get
more money that way, they have the ability to just
sign Brogden on the buyout market because they're no longer
like like into one of the aprons. So what did
you think about them going after Bogdanovic and what they
gave up to get him specifically.
Speaker 3: Well, it's just nice that they finally traded Terrence Man
who they just held out of every deal for as
long as he's been there.
Speaker 2: And James Harden talks to getting traded for poked.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, Dan, this is another example of the
deal that's like, yeah, I see it from both sides,
because it's just a bet that Bogdanovic can be the
guy that finished like fifth and sixth Man of the
Year last year and like six or something two years before,
like that he can just be that guy. And if
he is, then man, he helps you so much more
than Bones or Terrence Mandas right, because it's like another
guy that can space and can make plays. It is
just a smart offensive guard. Like it's an upside play,
I guess, and taking on some risk as the Clippers
just but if Bogdanovic is what he's been and we're
just even if we're just talking about this year, I
don't know, it makes a little bit of sense to me.
And you're getting picks with him, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I thought.
Speaker 3: I think the Clippers like if you just look at
what went out Tucker bomba man Highland a second and
you got back U Bank's Mills, Bogdanovic and more seconds,
like that's a net gain to me. If Bogdanovic can't play,
then this all all that analysis changes. But let's let's see,
you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it would change, But I think
the other ben The two things that I would stand
out of why I loved this deal specifically for them,
I think that you're feeling this season if you kept
Terrence Man, it would have been lower than if you
swing on Bogdanovich and he hits no question. The other
thing too, that I don't think is being talked about enough.
This is a team that clearly has like aspirations to
do something by or in twenty twenty six. They did
sign Terrence Man to that extension, so that's on them.
But Bogdanovich comes off the book. He has a team
option for twenty six twenty seven, so like he comes
off the books then too, so like you've I think
now aligned your books a little bit better around. We'll
see what happens with James Harden this year and his
player options. Is he signed a longer term pack. But
you very clearly I think like you've kept that sort
of path towards oh, like you'll be able to do
something in twenty twenty six, or at least have a
ton of flexibility leading in there. And just you mentioned
at the top of this, like Terrence Man, even if
you don't want to say he was expendable relative to
this package, he was like kind of a surplus relatively,
but what they needed is exactly what Bovit Bonovich Bogdanovic
has done at his peak. And so if they also
end up with Malcolm Brogden at the end of this two,
that's that's enough safeguards for me to love it. But
I think I liked their trade deadline overall.
Speaker 3: I did too.
Speaker 1: Our next team that Marcus Smart trade grant will go
through it and begin with I think the Grizzlies, of course,
But the overall trade was here we go. Memphis gets
Marvin Beckley the third and Johnny Davis. Sacramento receives Jake Laabia.
Washington receives Colby Jones, alex Lynn, Marcus Smart, memphis Is
twenty twenty five first round pick and Sacramento's twenty twenty
eight second round pick. As we're recording this, the initial reporting,
which had players going to teams that they didn't end
up with, did say that Memphis was getting two second
round picks. I haven't seen which second round picks those are.
Memphis gets off well, you have to note this. It's
it's a cliche, but it's a fact too. They sent
out Tias Jones and two first round picks to get
Marcus Smart and then they had to send out a
first round pick to get off of Marcus Smart.
Speaker 2: What do you make of this order of operation for Memphis?
Speaker 3: I mean that I know, I know, I can tell
you're saying, you know, we shouldn't consider what it costs
to get him because that's paid already. But like that
is the first paragraph of this trade, is that Marcus
Smart cost you to to get and cost you one
to get rid of, and like that's just a massive,
massive loss, right, And I think La Ravia actually kind
of indirectly cost a first to get initially because there
was a draft day trade for something about that I
don't know. Don't quote me on that one, but a
lot of people were talking about how Memphis just like
seems to draft okay, but then not so hot with
the trades. And if you're a Memphis fan being told that, hey,
we freed up some money so we can give Jared
Jackson Junior his next deal, like that's disappointing because you're
a contender in the West and you paid a first
round pick to get off of a guy that, while
he's been terrible and been hurt, has a lot bigger
chance of helping you win this year than Marvin Bagley
or Johnny Davis. And that's kind of where the analysis
should stop. I think if you're Memphis, so it's bad
for the Grizzlies. I just think objectively bad they it's
a salary dump basically that you're paying a high price
to execute, and a team in Memphis position shouldn't be
in doing that. Like, that's just not that doesn't square
with how good Memphis is. And I hate it. I mean,
like I don't know, I do you feel differently?
Speaker 2: I mostly hate it.
Speaker 1: So my whole thing is if you can carve out
space to give a renegotiate and extend to Jaron Jackson Junior.
I think that has value because he's not extending off
his back current number, which I means like twenty three million, Yeah,
one hundred and forty percent of that. So keeping him
out of even if you think that he'll just come back,
keeping him out of unrestricted free agency has real value. Sure,
here's my counter to that, though, He's going to make
all MBA and he will be super Max eligible if
he does, so, you didn't need to make this trade
to keep Jaron Jackson Jr. If you're saying you're not
gonna give him the Supermax even if he's eligible. That's
a different kind of conversation. Is he gonna still sign then?
Now that you've made that, like, there is one outcome
then where this is okay, and that is you keep
Jaron Jackson Junior out of twenty six free agency, and
if you don't, this becomes a Demonstra failure. But I
think that's the only level of justification for it, because
even if you throw out what they gave up in
the first place, it's like you said, by the way, Jacobaavia,
they're so deep that he can kind of be buried.
Speaker 2: But like he's played well for that he's a good pleasure.
Speaker 1: But they also declined his team options, so they can
only give him like five point whatever million. I don't
really think that would be an issue next year, but
something to note. So throw out the cost of what
they did for Marcus Smart. You were right when you
hit it on the head and said you can't afford
like this type, especially when you're working within such tight
financial constructs. Overall of what we're trying to plan around
paying Jaron Jackson Junior, along with Bain and John Morant,
especially in this new salary cap era.
Speaker 2: It's I would say the most terrible.
Speaker 1: Way to put it is that it's somewhat logical, but
it's just mostly uninspiring. And I don't if Jaron Jackson
Junior wasn't gonna make an All NBA team, I might
not be as hard as hard on them as because
he's a lot unless he gets injured.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the game's threshold played at this point.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to put that out into the universe,
like you didn't need to do this to pay Jaron
Jackson Junior.
Speaker 3: Do you think there's any chance Smart could have been
a helpful player for Memphis, like in the playoffs potentially.
Speaker 1: If he's healthy. Offensively, no, I think he's done. Yeah,
whatever that means for Marcus Smart's offense. I think defensively sure,
Because we had this conversation leading into the deadline of
Jalen Wells has been fantastic. They have all this like
big man depth in the world and now Gigi Jackson's back,
but like when you've dealt with injuries to him and
Vince Williams and John Wells as a rookie, and we
know Desmond Baines and John Moran's defensive limitations, like who
is just the guy that's gonna go guard the most
experienced other perimeter players.
Speaker 2: Scottie Pippen Junior is really small?
Speaker 1: Like it the answer was still probably Marcus Smart, which
is problematic for obvious reasons.
Speaker 2: But you haven't created all to that.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. I think the analysis would be really
different if if someone that came back to Memphis in
this deal, you could talk yourself into giving them five
to ten minutes in a playoff game, like, because I
really do think that is the lens that Memphis should
be viewing things through, is like we might make the
Western Conference finals, Like that's a possibility for this team,
and to get back Bagley and Davis, who just like
are on the way out of the league, Like I
think full stop, like Badley had no business getting this
deal that's finally twelve and a half million expiring. But
like if you thought Smart might be able to give
you anything, I just don't think you can justify this
deal because you can you can deal with the Jackson
stuff and you can and look you've drafted well too,
like a late twenty five first rounder might return the
guy that's you just drafted j thirty.
Speaker 1: Nine des Bain. Look where they found him. Jayalen Wells
wasn't even in the first.
Speaker 3: Thirty ninth pick, and so like, go get another Jalen? What? Like,
I just it doesn't make sense to me because even
the thing, the thing that I we like about Memphis
is its ability to draft that, it just kicked that
out the window, like to get rid of Marcus Smart
who might have helped you? No, who would who would
have been more helpful to you than Bagley or Davis.
So I just I don't I don't get.
Speaker 1: It now if they use this additional flexibility to Reno,
like if that's how Jaron Jackson Junior stays in Memphis,
because maybe that ends up being a cheaper deal than
what we thought the super Max was going to be.
But like at that point, it's okay, So if it's
going to be less than a thirty percent max, I
mean maybe he would sign for I'm just trying to in.
Speaker 3: The off season what that trade Smart in the off
season then like, don't don't do it now.
Speaker 1: That's I think that's I think that's the rebuke because
I was gonna say, if they're if they use this
flexibility to renegotiate and extend Jaron Jackson JUNR.
Speaker 2: Will that change your like impressions? All?
Speaker 1: Like, it's not done by way of him making the
All NBA team and getting some version of a max deal.
Speaker 3: I guess it makes it easier to justify, but I
just don't I don't know why you couldn't have. Also,
I don't think smart's likely to help them. I just
think it's more probable than the guys they got back.
But I don't know why you can't wait. It's not
like you have to negotiate Jackson's deal the day the
season ends, and all we're going to trade like, I
don't know. I'm sure, I'm sure there's some justification other
than just this is a dumb the stupidly timed move
that is like anathetical to a team that should be
trying to win. But I just I don't see it.
Speaker 2: Let's talk Kings. They have another deal to go through
after this one very quickly.
Speaker 1: But so they sent out here Colby Jones, Alex Lynn
and that twenty twenty eight second, and they're getting Jake
Laavia back. They also made a deal to get Jonas Valencoutas,
which is you know, we know now why they didn't
take back Trey Jones and the zach Lavine deal. So
they take him into their non tax player mid level
exception and they give up two second round picks. Is
what it ends up being for him? What have you
made of And we also we've already talked at length
about dearon Fox zach Lavine, but we're talking about that,
I mean Macro.
Speaker 2: But is there anything you like about these deals specifically?
Speaker 1: What do you end up thinking about their entire deadline direction,
et cetera.
Speaker 3: I think the it's hard to come up with a
positional group that's been less productive than backup big on
the Kings in the whole league, And so Valentunas is
far from a superstar. I don't think he's a starter
on a good team, but like he can give them
so much more than they've been getting from from Len
and Trade Jon, the Trey Lyles and just good guys
they've trotted out to try to fill that spot. Also,
like cornering the market on Lithuanian big guys, that's that's awesome.
You don't play together, Oh god, you no way.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I would try it. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: You know what, if that means the Bonis starts taking
like seven or eight threes, I'm for it.
Speaker 1: That would just screening and rolling for Sabonis. Let's just
let's roll with it.
Speaker 3: Let's see. I mean that's this is a no brainer
acquisition for them given the price, right, I think the King,
like the Kings, should do this ten times out of ten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I even liked I greeted them favorably in the Memphis
Washington deal as well.
Speaker 2: I like Jake Laavia.
Speaker 1: I think they're fans and rightfully so, we're pining for,
you know, a bigger, more impact wing defender type. I
don't know if I trust Jake Leravia's three point stroke,
especially in a playoff setting, but he shooting forty five
and a half percent on almost two catch and shoot
three pint attempts per game, and he's when you watch him,
he's a legitimate four position defender. That's not someone aside
from Keegan Murray that they have on this roster. So
between him, Devin Carter, Keon Ellis, I think you've it now,
like because you've essentially decided we're gonna try and recreate
like a better offensive version of that Bulls team, but
with worse perimeter defenders around them.
Speaker 2: So I think this was like the way to go
with it.
Speaker 1: I really think the Jake Labia addition is probably one
of the more underrated acquisitions of the of the deadline.
Speaker 3: I agree, And as you've noted when we were talking
to Memphis, because his fourth year option was declined, the
Kings can pay him no more than like five point
two million in starting in free agency, which might, like,
I don't know, I don't know. If he's a mid
level guy, that might be enough to keep him around.
But if you're just talking about this season, like I
think La Ravia is gonna play, and like will give them,
as you said, a lot that they're not getting from
other wings.
Speaker 1: I should give, like the Doug Christy Eric King's a
benefit of the doubt. But after watching Kean Ellis be
buried on the bench for so long, I just won't,
you know, a little scary bum onto La Ravia playing.
But I think I'm still not crazy about what they
did with darn Fox. I think that was short sighted.
They should have skewed towards starting over or at least
addressing the situation way earlier than they did, but I like,
like these two subsequent moves that made me feel better.
And I also the thing is, I like zach Lavine.
We both kind of tilted towards the direction of people
are too low on zach Lavine, and so I'm interested
to see what this team can become. And they're just
I think they're more like they're deeper now and they're
I think they're a little bit more versatile on the
defensive end than they were a few hours ago.
Speaker 3: I would put it this way to close it up
on the Kings, like I when I did the full
deadline grade for them, it incorporated the Levine Fox deal,
and I would say that the I feel like I'm
a little I think it was a C plus overall,
and the Valanceunis and La Ravia acquisitions moved the grade up.
I think I think those were just sort of you know,
pound four pound better deals that it made more sense
to me than the Lavigne acquisition.
Speaker 2: Do you know what's frustrating about them?
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about these players specifically necessarily, but these
are also the types of deals that the Kings could
have made, like at the previous two trade deadlines.
Speaker 3: Well, that's yeah, that's true when.
Speaker 1: He talked some wizards here. But let's get to one
of the other deals that they were involved in. They
got a boatload of second round picks from the field,
or excuse me, they traded a boatload of second round
picks to the Philadelphia seventy six ers to end up
getting a first round pick, and so it's a less
favorable first round pick. But I found like just sort
of the context of it interesting, So if you're watching
on screen, perhaps you could read it. But they end
up sending Philly Jared Butler a twenty twenty seven second
round pick, a Goal State's twenty twenty eight second round pick,
a twenty thirty second round pick that's most favorable of
Phoenix in Portland, on top of their own twenty thirty
second round pick. They take back Reggie Jackson, and they
got a twenty twenty six first round pick.
Speaker 2: It'll be the less.
Speaker 1: Favorable of Houston, the Clippers in Oklahoma City. So there's
like a real chance that that pick is going to
be worse than number twenty five. They had so many
second rounders, I don't care. And then I think when
you look at the rest of their trade, deadline where
you get another first coming out of that Marcus Smart deal,
and I love like I was torn on the Kyle
Kuzma trade because I think it's clear there's some there's
Like people have said that they could have gotten two
first round picks form it last year's trade deadline. I
don't know if that's true. I'm pretty confident that they
could have gotten at least one at the trade deadline
and over the offseason. So they clearly waited on him
for too long when you kind of look at the
return they got and now you have Marcus Smart and
Chris Middleton is just sort of your vets with Malcolm Brogden.
Speaker 2: Around these youngsters. I almost love it.
Speaker 1: And so I like their trade deadline way more more
than I thought I was going to. With the caveat
that it clearly would have made more sense to deal
Kyle Kuzma last February or at least over the offseason.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. I just you know, I
think maybe the lesson too that I needed to learn
from the Phoenix deal we talked about earlier is that
kind of getting any first has additional value because not
that this is an issue for Washington, but it does
allow you to trade first, you know, in the years
before and after that you kind of conduct the Steppian
if you're piling up extra first. Again not a Washington
issue because they got plenty, but yeah, I'll give up
for four seconds for a low first, just because you
know you're right it's gonna be in the twenties. It
might be number twenty nine or thirty or whatever, but
that still just has additional value because you can do
other stuff with your own first or other first. You
get flexibility there. Again, this is another Charlotte esque situation
where it's like, all right, this is this is what
you're supposed to do in this situation. Take on some
bad money, nothing too long with Middleton's that's what I'm
referring to. And and smart nothing like not crazy with
first attached, Like that's just that's the that's the order
of business for first order of business for a team
like this, And like the I don't know what to
do with the because we keep coming back to this,
like how much do we knock them for not trading
Kuzma or whoever we happen to be talking about, Like earlier,
I think it's it's not like you can never do
that because there are situations where it's super obvious they
should have traded, you know, like Vucevic a couple of
years or whatever, like Levine before his value creator, like
all that stuff. But yeah, I think I liked Washington's
deadline quite a bit. I think to get out of
it with two first like who knows what, maybe Kuzma
will be his laker's self with with the Bucks, but
he wasn't going to be with Washington, so it's kind
of like what's the difference. Yeah, I'm mostly positive on them.
I think.
Speaker 1: I think by the way, just signing Jonas valentiunis and
then just turning him into two second round picks.
Speaker 3: Mission accomplished that. He like that's that was a beginning,
middle and end, like fully executed plan, Like they got
what they thought they'd get for him, I bet.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is I like, you didn't
see this because Kuzma was on the books with Middleton,
although you did kind of like Middleton, if he picks
up his player option, he becomes expiring. But like with
the Marcus smart thing, you rolled expiring contracts into another
salary slot with Marcus part that you could then do
something similar with next season.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: The only critique I could love is that you probably
could have gotten more for Kuzma a year ago, six
months ago, but you might have made up just as much,
if not more, of the overarching value you with all
of your moves done at this trade deadline. From Philly's
perspective on this trade, where you're giving away that second
that excuse me, that first round pick for four seconds.
But I also, since we're gonna talk about the sixers here,
there wasn't a like an addendum to the the Caleb
Martin trade where because they there's he has a hip injury, yes,
and Dallas was initially okay with him, but the physical
came back. So now Philly has to send out a
twenty thirty second round pick while getting back Quentin Grimes.
And it's on twenty twenty five second round pick. Where
you're looking at everything they did. We already talked about
the kJ like we at least noted the kJ Martin stuff,
that trade with Washington. Where they're at in the standings
and what this might portend. How do you feel about
what they did and where they're going.
Speaker 3: I feel slightly in the negative let's split it up.
So I think Grimes, if we're talking about the Caleb
Martin deal in particular, I think Grimes is a better player.
Probably the question of what's gonna cost to keep him
in restricted free agency kind of complicates that analysis, I think,
because you say what you want about Martin and the
injury and production to this point, but three years left
for twenty nine million, like that's a I don't think
you're getting Grimes back for much less than that. You're
probably gonna have to pay more than that for Grimes,
but to get your own second back in that deal,
I like now basically him failing a physical more or
less having to send the twenty thirty out makes that
a little bit worse. I think the thing that I
I don't know if you want to jump to the
kJ Martin side of things or just talk about this
deal specifically.
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about the Sixers in some
because I think it's just all I liked.
Speaker 2: This deal specifically was fine.
Speaker 1: I think that Quentin Grimes a little smaller, and Kayleb
Martin can guard up and Quentin Grimes can't, and so
I don't know how it all works with Jared McCain
and Tyre's Maxie and Quentin Grimes moving forward, But like
you could start if you want to, Quentin Grimes and
Tyre's Maxie with Jared McCain coming off the bench. They
also needed guys who could hit wide open threes, and
Kayla Martin wasn't that dude. This year, I've had some
people text me and say that people around the league
are just waiting for Quentin Grimes's legs to implode. I
guess that's a risk, but like you knew that Kayler
Martin was banged up to the point that Dallas had
the right to veto the deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, could have gotten out of this and didn't.
Speaker 1: So I like this trade for them more than Dallas,
even with the second round pick going out the other stuff.
I don't know how to reconcile it because you signed
kJ Martin.
Speaker 2: That's why played in contracts.
Speaker 1: You could be buyers at the deadline, and instead ended
up doing is getting rid of two second round picks
to duck the luxury tax, which is that's ownership cheaping out.
Speaker 2: Let's like, let's call it what it is.
Speaker 1: And you could say, well, given where they're at this season,
doesn't make sense to check that off the box. That's fine,
them reacting to this situation. This situation is of their
own creation, and so I didn't. I don't love what
And also because they're not you can't tank at this point,
like we went through the merits of it, we did
that whole like mini episode bonus clip on it.
Speaker 2: I don't like. I guess I'm conflicted.
Speaker 1: I understand it, but I don't support it, except I
like the other two deals, even though, like getting some
more second rounders in the door when you just had
to throw two of them out to wash off of
kJ Martin and you know that twenty twenty six first Yeah, Now,
I think the biggest downside there is now you can't
trade a twenty twenty six first round pick. Like the
benefit of having two was it opened up all these
other possibilities. So I understand two of these moves, and
then I even underst and the kJ Martin trade. But
I'm not going to celebrate a team that is still
playing Joel embiid I get like he came back at.
Speaker 3: Triple minutes in that game.
Speaker 2: Dam So don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what this I So I asked you
how you feel about what the Sixers did and where
they're going. I have no idea where they're going, and
I think that's why I have to default to I
don't loft this trade deadline for them.
Speaker 3: I get, like, again, yeah, I'm mildly negative. The kid
you said, what I was going to say about the
kJ Martin side of it is like that turned quickly
to where you're paying to get off that now. I mean,
I don't think the Sixers know where they're going because
they can't because Joel Embiid's health is em maybe like
you're still just tied to him and no one can
be sure how much he's going to play or how
long he'll stay healthy, and all the same, it's the
same story. Really, I guess, like trading kJ Martin and
paying seconds to do it was kind of get you
alluded to this kind of like the right decision given
the circumstances. If you're then you got to get past
the like, well ownerships should just pay the tax. You
don't want to be the repeater if you don't have to.
It's just disappointing, I guess more than anything, because like
that's the exact opposite of what that deal was meant
to do when they signed him to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would just be like you thought he
would have played.
Speaker 1: I guess not played well enough for you to just
trade him away, But that still took two.
Speaker 2: Seconds to get off him.
Speaker 1: I guess. I don't have strong feelings other than if
you thought Philly's situation was perilous before like this trade deadline.
Didn't like ask wage any concerns at all. I wanted
to ask you about this because they did do something else,
but this was a big trade I didn't get a
chance to talk to you about. I won't go through
the details. You could look it up on screen if
you want. But the Bucks trading Chris Middleton and AJ
Johnson and a first round pick swap to get back
Kyle Kuzma. Basically they also end up they send away
Patrick Balter and Junior to the Spurs, and then they
made the trade of Marjon Bochamp for Kevin Porter Junior.
What do you just make of everything that Milwaukee? I
did notice that it seems like Bucks fans or and
when you trade away a franchies, just like the emotional
component of trading away Chris Middleton is huge.
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I try to talk myself through it where I kind
of understand the theory of Kyle Kuzma, but part of
my concern, among my many concerns, was there's a big
downgrade here in playmaking, ball handling, and getting Kevin Porter
Junior does not make me feel better about that.
Speaker 3: No, well, I mean you're forgetting. They also got Jericho
Simms for Jawn, right.
Speaker 2: Jerico Simms, you want stone Hands, he's your guy.
Speaker 3: He's your guy. I mean, you know, the defense falls
apart when Brook Lopez doesn't play. Maybe Sims can add
some energy.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like's Brook is now expendable this offseason.
Speaker 3: Because yeah, Jericho Sims is in. Man, it's time to
turn the page. I guess my very first thought was
the Bucks must be really sure that Middleton's just never
gonna be a guy that can give them heavy minutes consistently. Uh,
because Kuzma, to me is a pretty significant downgrade. He's
really had like one passable three point shooting year and
has been in the low thirties basically all otherwise. I
think you could counter with, like, can we judge anybody
who's been on Washington for the last several years, Like
maybe he's closer to Lakers Kuzma, which is good defender,
role player like that kind of thing, so much cheaper
with the declining structure of that deal, like I get,
which is to say, I get it from from the
Bucks perspective. If you're sure that Middleton just can't be
the guy that he used to be, not a crazy
hypothesis given just the injury issues and what he's done
so far, like per minute, he's a better player than Kuzma.
Just how many minutes are you getting and for the price?
So like I understand it from that point. Just disappointing
that like A J. Johnson, we hardly knew you, like
he just was in the G league. It was a risk.
Nobody liked that pick to begin with, and now you've
punted on a first You've given up a twenty eight
swap like.
Speaker 1: After his career night too, right, did you have a
huge game on the fifth and you move on on
the sixth or but whatever the fourth then the fit.
Speaker 3: Sure I even knew A. J. Johnson had like played
more than five minutes in an NBA game this year,
which is bad because I've been grading rookies all season
and like tracking their G league stuff.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't have accounted for the performance happened like two or
three days ago.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's why I didn't know, So I guess. I
guess this is another one where it's like it's just
eye of the beholder stuff. If you told me that
Middleton was going to be able to play, then you
don't do this. But I think the Bucks are in
a position to know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I view it as the Bucks have effectively punted on
contending for a title this season.
Speaker 2: Is where I've come around to.
Speaker 3: I understand Middleton just wasn't going to be reliable, like
from a night to night, you know, big minutes standpoint.
Speaker 1: Chris Middleton in modest minutes is more valuable in a
playoff series than Kyle Kuzma because of the chemistry with Giannis.
Who's better at getting the ball to Jannis than Chris Middleton.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I guess it's just like you need more
than fifteen or twenty minutes every other of that.
Speaker 1: Okay, but how good does Kyle Kuzma need to be
in his thirty minutes thirty five minute because it's probably
a defensive upgrade we've seen Kuzma defend.
Speaker 2: People wrote off like what he like when.
Speaker 1: He was first in Washington, Like that's kind of where
a lot of the defensive reputation stuff felt like it
was changing for him. There's probably a defensive upgrade here,
this is an offensive downgrade. And so unless Chris Middleton's
ankles are actually cooked. But I looked at it as
they wanted to figure out how to one get out
of the second apron without giving up their twenty thirty
one first or second round picks. And they also wanted
to plan around next season when they might be able
to avoid like aprons or even the luxury tax all together,
depending on what happens with Portis content of player options.
Speaker 2: Brook Lopez is a free agent.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you look at this team after
this trade, even even if it's the way that Chris
Middleton has been used and played by the way this season,
like he's had some incredible off like moments and performances,
how are they better equipped to win a title?
Speaker 3: I would just yeah, I don't know, it's a coin flip.
I suppose it's just you know, you get X from
Middleton and you get two X from Kuzma, and and
is that production more worthwhile overall, I don't know you're
you're really I just think I think if you said,
tell me what you think about this, Middleton probably couldn't
give you more than he was giving you going forward
this season, right like, in terms of minutes, in terms
of availability, dur whatever. I think it's fair to say
Kuzma can probably give give you more than he was
giving Washington. I guess the question is just like, is
that enough? Like and and your answer, I guess is
that the a little bit of Middleton is still more
valuable than more of Kuzma, which is a fair position
to take. I think it's a close trade. But I
understand wanting to get younger, more athletic, get heavier minutes,
get more two way, I don't know dynamism from from Kuzma.
That's that's an iffy bet because he might just be
Washington Kuzma, and then in that case you're cooked because
that guy's not a good player, or even if.
Speaker 1: He's like okay, like he's a better cutter than we
could see and so we could be a better driver.
But like as you mentioned, is three point shooting has
never been awesome. Yeah, and that's kind of what they
would need out of that spot. I think also maybe
I'm prisoner of the moment in the sense that when
I first reacted to this trade, I said, part of
the logic was, okay, sliding Kuzma up to the four,
and then you play Giannis and Kuzma instead of Yanis
and Portus in those non Brook Lopez minutes, and now
Portis becomes more expendable, so of course they're gonna go
do something they can aggregate salaries. And yet they end
up with after this trade, Jericho Sims and Kevin Porter Junior.
Speaker 2: So I think that.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm giving them too heavy of a demerit just
because we're reacting to it like so close from that.
But that was part of my Middleton Kuzma calculus, and
it felt like I was grasping its straws there, and
the fact that they let go of them entirely is
why I'm inclined to think this wasn't about this year.
It felt like it was more about bookkeeping for the future.
And Yannis apparently approved to the Kuzma acquisition. I'm curious
to know if he knew that Midlton was going out
as part of it. His job to understand the salary gat.
Speaker 3: He just told him the first part. They just said
who they might get and he's like who to do it.
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, Bobby Poris and Pat Connaton gone,
Kyle Kuzma in done. So I don't love it. I
think you can still to your point though, justify it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's right down the middle, because I think, like
last thing, there's a real based on past precedent, there's
a pretty decent chance that the Bucks would have got
exactly zero from Middleton in the playoffs, and Kuzma just
the health record says you might get something, and maybe
that argument. I think that doesn't That makes your argument
still right because the Middleton I guess ceiling is higher
because maybe he could play a lot and like therefore
their title ODGSER should be better this year. I don't know.
This is a tough trade. I get it from both sides, honestly.
Speaker 1: So let's get into some of the teams. They did
things like Utah Jazz Fans, rust Ashore. We will get
to them, but let's start talking about teams that either
did smaller things, didn't do as big as we thought,
didn't do anything. We'll begin with the Brooklyn Nets, Grant.
I think the notable thing here is not that they
didn't do something, they didn't do something else. It's that
Cam Johnson is still on the Brooklyn Net. I mean,
maybe even some people say, wow, Cam Thomas is still
in the Brooklyn Nets ahead a restricted free agency. What
did you sort of make of that decision? And sort
of they did their business early and then set out
in the deadline.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of the teams that were inactive, and there were
only a handful, I think Brooklyn's the one I sort
of get the most or I think it's the most
excusable one because they actually did make a couple of
pre deadline trades and piled up some seconds for Schreuder
and Finney Smith, and I think I don't know. We
talked about this a little bit leading up. It's like,
if there aren't if the package for Cam isn't there
that you like, there's no reason to just jump at
the best offer now because he's going to retain some value.
You've got your twenty five and twenty six first. You
have control of those now, so you can next year
it's going to be kind of more of the same
for you. Maybe you get your two firsts or a
good first and something else over the offseason or at
the next deadline or whatever. The risk is that Johnson
falls off because he's playing great. But I think it's
the most excusable to me that they didn't do anything.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 1: Like you said, they got their business out of the
way early. I will say they still kind of just
have these games where it's like, oh, they beat the Rockets,
like so where you kind of they could shut down
players they didn't need to move them.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you on that front. For Brooklyn. Next
team who Chicago. They got rid of Zach Lavine.
Speaker 1: They signed Lonzo Ball to an extension which he was
still trade eligible afterwards, two years, twenty million dollars, but
they kept him, kept Vouch, kept Kobe White, kept Bio Tosumu.
And then did you see the ak quote coming out afterwards.
Speaker 3: Just sort of like we're gonna basically saying like we're
going to take a look at this and figure it
out over time. It's going to be an evaluation process
more or less, right he.
Speaker 1: Said, I know fans want a specific plan, and we
are charting that path right now. We are not done yet.
We are in a transitional phase. This will take some
time to unfold. It was we have the concepts, a plan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how would you describe the last several years as
distinct from what you just said?
Speaker 2: Not right?
Speaker 1: So, I mean Monus Brizellez is having some some moments.
Speaker 2: So there's that for them. But are you do you
think they did enough to like kind of okay?
Speaker 1: At least they're thinking big picture here with that zach
Lavine trade or should they have been?
Speaker 2: They've made an effort to do more.
Speaker 3: So would you agree that the getting their own first back,
which had top ten protection from the Spurs seemed like
the type of precursor to let's tank hard did? Maybe?
Because the thing is if they tanked hard, they were
going to get that pick anyway, right right.
Speaker 1: I've even azed we can compete for the play in
and still get that pick if we heow come out
of the play.
Speaker 3: That's the problem. That's the problem is that like it's
the same thing they Why is Vouch still here? I
don't like, why is Kobe White still here? I don't know.
I don't have anything new to say about the Bulls
because the Levigne trade made me think maybe that like
they were gonna do what we've been asking to do,
and they didn't, And so now I just I don't know.
I don't know how you feel good about this if
you're a Bulls fan, especially like I just why are
so many of these guys still here? I don't get it.
Speaker 2: There's and just that Zack Lavine trade quickly.
Speaker 1: The real value might have been, well, if you thought
the pick wasn't gonna convey this year, you were worried
about the top eight protection in the subsequent two years,
But that's protection where it's no like you can and
should be bad enough that that pick never convey bays
And while it encumbers you with trades that you could make,
guess what, the Bulls should not be trading their own
first round pick anyway in.
Speaker 3: The first place, under any circumstances.
Speaker 1: Next up here the Dallas Mavericks. They just I just
wonder if you had any additional thoughts. Now that the
trade does is settled, they get Kaylen Martin, they trade
Quentin Grimes. Are you surprised all that Derek Lively is
still on the team because they don't like paying guys
like before they were already paid. I don't I don't
understand what the philosophy is in Dallas, but I am.
Speaker 2: I'm thoroughly confused.
Speaker 3: It's still an F minus for me, Dan, I don't
know what they It's like the reverse of the Lakers.
They were keeping an A plus. No matter what, it's
an F minus for Dallas.
Speaker 2: Uh, here's to PJ. Washington playing some three right. I
didn't even go. I thought they might get like another
ball handler. Didn't do that. So, uh, still disappointing.
Speaker 1: Just want to see if you had anything to add
there onto a team that did absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2: The Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 3: I mean, so they couldn't trade Murray, they couldn't trade Gordon.
They shouldn't, but they also couldn't because the extensions there
must not have been anything for MPG and nobody wanted
Zeke Nagy.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like you currently either he's still just
in Denver. That's weird.
Speaker 3: Dario Sarch like, I I don't. I guess like I'm
mildly negative because it's disappointing because they're you know, they
should be trying to add, but you just have to
acknowledge like they didn't have a good way to do that.
I don't think so. I don't feel that negative about it,
but I can understand Nuggets fans are disappointed. I just
don't know what you realistically would have wanted them to do.
Speaker 1: Well, Grace from what's in the game NBA podcast tweeted out,
the main selling point to the fans, not the ownership
of letting KCP walk, was quote flexibility, and that was
always a farce. But now that is obvious because they
did nothing in the trade headline. What was the point
of this flexibility for you to sit here and then
do nothing when it came to improving the team.
Speaker 3: I mean, the truth is you didn't get any flexibility
like one.
Speaker 2: So you should have just kept telling you were a
contracts grant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is another one where it's just the precursor move.
It was part of the mistake, but like, yeah, you
should you should just have KCP on this team since
you weren't gonna do anything anyway. At fair point, I
think that's right.
Speaker 2: Peyton Watson injury too, right, Maybe that hurts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I didn't expect them to do anything. I'm
not super mad about it, but I did. I thought
it was good by Grace to reinforce that the front
office and ownership were usually spinning and lying a lot
of the same. Next team up, the Houston Rockets facilitated
a bunch of stuff to get seconds back. They took
on Cody Zeller Jayden Springer, so they got picked.
Speaker 2: That was nice.
Speaker 1: But Brad van Fleet, this is week to week, not
even whatever whatever.
Speaker 2: That's like John Morant territory.
Speaker 3: He's don't like it.
Speaker 2: It's injured, he's weak to week. The fact that van
Fleet is week to week has me concerned. Were you
okay with them doing nothing?
Speaker 1: Do you think they should have been a little bit
more aggressive to get either another ball handler or some
shooting in there.
Speaker 3: I think they they effectively robbed us of any expectation
that they were gonna do anything by telling us over
and over again that they were not gonna do anything.
So I went into the deadline with that sort of baseline.
So I think they waved Springer because they needed the
roster spot to take on Zeller and get this get
another second. I was kind of excited, like, who needs
you know, athletic young defenders less than the Rockets do.
But I like, oh yeah, Springer, let's go, he's gonna
I like Jayden Springer, I think that's like an end
of bench. That's a fun acquisition. And they waived him
because they needed the roster spot. So f F F
minus triple minus because they I did.
Speaker 2: I know you were psychotic. I'm just not coming into
this expecting you trust. I was kind of excited about
you didn't out disappointed.
Speaker 3: I think kind of excited is exactly how one should
feel about Jaden Springer just at all times. I'm sorry
you disagree. No, they didn't do anything, like they got
a couple seconds for kind of just taking on guys
players that teams needed to offload to duck attacks. So fine,
if you're not going to do anything crazy, I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I don't think they needed to do anything.
Speaker 1: If they could have gotten a shooter where it was like,
oh do you trade Jay Shawn Taate stack him onto
another expiring contract, it doesn't seem based off who was traded,
It doesn't seem like there was really anybody.
Speaker 2: Like that out there.
Speaker 1: And it's a delicate balance between acknowledging that NBA windows
are so fleeting now versus you also don't Because they're
so fleeting, you don't want to pounce and try and
accelerate your position at the wrong time. They're top three
in the West. We've seen some pullback in light of
the injuries that they've been dealing with. They'll presumably get healthier.
I'm okay with them having done Yep, they're gonna have
Devin Booker by this time next year.
Speaker 3: Probably anyway, so easy.
Speaker 1: The Deanana Pacers, they traded James Wiseman, so they get
a f right.
Speaker 3: He's still gonna become David Robinson. Dan I believe it. Yeah, no,
just so, Toronto says I love. I think I couldn't
get the exact details. I don't even know the year,
but the top fifty five protection on the second round
are coming from Toronto. Those are always my favorite picks
that get conveyed. Why not top fifty nine?
Speaker 2: Can?
Speaker 1: I think there has to be like a minimum or
like you can't because otherwise that's like super fake.
Speaker 3: It's all yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 1: Those I would be I would incentivize teams for this
and be like, we'll make it top fifty four protected.
Speaker 3: Not even I feel like here's what you should do.
You should protect it in fifty nine of the sixty
possible spots, except you don't. Nobody knows what the one
unprotected spot is, so it could be one, could be twelve,
could be fifty eight.
Speaker 2: What did they call that? Just like the just it's
like the dice box.
Speaker 3: It's the roulette protection where it's just you spin the
wheel and you don't know where the protection falls. I
think we should institute that which these.
Speaker 1: Chicago bulls would totally make a trade like that and
view it is about incoming value.
Speaker 3: If that was to live on the edge a little bit, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Were you I wasn't surprised they didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: You might have liked to have seen them gone a
little bit more aggressively after some wing upgrades, But the
name they were linked to the most never made any
sense for that, Like Cam Johnson's a good fit, Yeah,
I don't think he's necessarily what they needed. And they
were just in a weird spot because you couldn't trade
a first earlier than twenty twenty eight. And what's going
on with Garis Walker and Bredec Math and how highly
do you value them?
Speaker 2: They may have.
Speaker 1: Been look and they have nem hard and Aarony Smith
is back. They may have been an interesting DeAndre Hunter team.
When you kind of look back at the cost that unfolded.
But they didn't have I mean, the Hawks didn't save
money as part of that. The ither was I'll say
they didn't the wiggle room beneath the tax to saving
lant of money, but neither did them.
Speaker 2: The Hawks're actually in the attacks for a second at
the end of that trade.
Speaker 3: So I did enjoy I enjoyed Miles Turner tweeting the
Survivor logo just with the like the sweating emoji.
Speaker 2: That was.
Speaker 1: Didn't you find people continuously mentioning him weird because this
was the first time he was in the trade rumor
mill without there being like any sort of veritable backing
to it.
Speaker 2: Well, just because he was going to be a free agent.
Speaker 1: It was there were all these trades where they didn't
even get a center back and it was just like,
all right, so Siakam is your five and let's I
just I did not understand this was not the deadline
for him to tweet that, because I think that this
is probably the least like, maybe the second most least
likely deadline he's ever been to be traded.
Speaker 3: With that, but there have been a lot, which I
think is the point. He's just like that guy's got
a hate when February rolls around. When he flips the calendar,
he just starts the sweat.
Speaker 1: Well, did you see Keith Smith tweeted this from uh,
I have to get the pronunciation right.
Speaker 2: Spo track.
Speaker 3: I think it's spa track, but I want to call
it spo track.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Well, Keith Smith tweeted once that he was in an
NBA locker room and it was around the trade deadline
and a player said with a huge following, said hey,
watch this and tweeted something cryptic, and then the entire
team was like laughing at all the absurd responses and
inferences that came in.
Speaker 2: That's that's fucking cool.
Speaker 1: Like I like ida Miles Turner being with the pass, Like, yo, guys,
watch me do this. We're gonna see everyone reacts to it.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: A team that we're gonna talk about next is the
Minnesota Timberwolves who did nothing but grant.
Speaker 2: Did you see that?
Speaker 1: Chris Haynes reported they tried to get in on the
Kevin Durant sweepstakes.
Speaker 3: You love to see that they tried. Reports coming out
it's you know, uh what close only counts in horseshoes
and hand grenades.
Speaker 1: So I also think part of that attempt like rewriting
the rules of the collective bargaining agreement because they don't
have anyone. They can only do one for one, they
can only trade, they can't aggregate salaries. Nobody on this
team makes as much as to rast.
Speaker 3: So does try and constitute them calling the Suns and
then Son saying like even we know you're not allowed
to do this, and then the calls over or.
Speaker 1: Is it how far into the second apron are they?
So they would have had a cut, Like aren't they
like sixteen million or something into the second apron?
Speaker 2: And so you would have need to cut how much salary?
It's part of a camera dant trade.
Speaker 3: Say, I'm just glad and that they didn't make another
like clearly financially motivated cost cutting move that hurt the
product on the floor because the cat trade just was that,
and I was concerned that, like we're just gonna see more.
It also means like nobody wanted Randall because I hope
they tried to trade. I mean, him getting hurt at
like right before the deadline didn't help, but like they
must have tried to move him, And it's just there's
no market at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm assuming he did try to move him.
Speaker 1: I just don't to what end at that point that
would have been Looking at the Karl Anthony town town's
trade tree after that move would have been fascinating.
Speaker 3: You just see like just black in the Ledger. And
that's I think all that Minnesota cares about it.
Speaker 1: This is they still have the potential to do something
stupid though, like on the draft, always so like to
try and cut into that tax bill. So it's not
over yet Wolves fans. It'll be be fascinating to see
where they go from here. Next up, Grant, please give
me your thoughts on your New York Knicks. Who made
a big trade, Yeah, Jericho Simms for Delann Wright. Which
could I actually say one thing I saw people James
Edwards of the athletic point of this out saying people
were trying to like look at the reasoning of it.
Where Okay, maybe Tom Tabodau trust delawonn Right more than
Jericho Simms. Duh, but you have Jalen Brunt inducement broad campaign.
Delon Wright really shouldn't be seeing the floor unless you
view him as a reserve wing. James Edwards said, the
Knicks like to trade their guys that they're not playing
in the hopes that maybe they could find a home
or get paid out.
Speaker 2: So I flamed that mine.
Speaker 3: That's nice. Yeah, I guess I I'd just say that,
I guess Mitchell Robinson is gonna help uh and or
nobody was willing to give up anything helpful for him,
so thin because he was the guy that I just
kept coming back to, is like, well, that's the only
way for the Knicks to do anything, and he's still here,
So there you go.
Speaker 1: I think the fact that we've seen them play out
of necessity a lot of times, like hug Porty and
Towns together, shows that, okay, they're going to give the
Robinson Towns yeah stuff shot. But then the problem there
is you cut into hug Porty's minutes and that's your
primary building block moving forward.
Speaker 2: So I don't really know what to do with that.
Speaker 1: I do think this was probably the right decision because
Mitchell's value, Mitchell Robinson's value has never been lower, and
the best way for him to become useful to you
is to come back healthy and say and see like,
oh it works with him in Towns and we're better
for it, We're not going to move him or comes
back plays, well, you have the opportunity to make an
upgrade in his trade value is higher in the off season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's more valuable to them than anybody else. So
you just don't trade that type of guy.
Speaker 1: I really hope this next on screen slide is to
your liking for the Oklahoma City Thunker.
Speaker 2: Who Look, they made some moves. They got it.
Speaker 1: Like the big move was trading the Phoenix twenty twenty
nine second for Denver's twenty thirty second. That's that's like
course altering shit here.
Speaker 3: Like why why I see you have it up here?
It's the school. They already had six in twenty twenty nine,
so they wanted to like trim that number and take
a twenty thirty. Like I just there's no I don't
understand any other reasoning for it, because you can't.
Speaker 2: The reasoning is what you just said.
Speaker 1: Plus you can't yet trade for twenty thirty two second
round picks, but rest a short Once you can, the
thunder will probably go out and get them.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's about right.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that they should have tried to do something,
whether it was add we add nauseum here, Oh do
they need kind of another ball handling score type or
even just a higher volume shooter maybe with some size,
perhaps Cam Johnson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's you see Cleveland do something. So
the argument that well, if you're running away with the conference,
you don't need to do anything kind of falls apart
because the Thunder could have and had more ass. That's
certainly than the Cavs did. I think the fact that
ched Holmgren the report came out today is he's basically
he's ready to go now. I think that mitigates a
little bit of it.
Speaker 2: So that was on purpose.
Speaker 1: This was always the party was like, oh, look our
trade deadline acquisition is a healthy ch at home grin.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say that, but I thought it was
too cynical, and then you said it, so it must
it must be appropriately cynical.
Speaker 1: A team that I don't think could have or should
get a pass or doing nothing though, is the Orlando Magic?
Speaker 2: Nope? How do you feel about them? Most?
Speaker 3: I checked again, still on pace to have the lowest
three point percentage by any team in at least a decade,
So like, what's the argument for their inaction? Is it
just that we're eighth in the East. The injuries derailed
our season. We you know, so that's why we're not
gonna go get shooting and playmaking. Like okay, I guess,
but but like, how long are you gonna wait? You
We've talked about how they've banked on organic growth and
kind of been right, and they've been pretty conservative. The
KCP acquisition was turns out not to have mattered a
whole lot, but that was kind of the exception in
terms of them just like generally not doing anything. I
why is Anthony Simon still a Blazer like that? You
know that that kind of thing, Like, I just I
think the Magic had a clear need didn't address it,
And then that feels like a concession because that just
means you you just I don't care how good your
defense is, You're not doing anything if you can't make
a three in twenty twenty five. So like to have
just decided that that's not an issue they're gonna address
is disappointing to me. They can go, they got plenty
of time, they can do it in the offseason. Just
you know, do something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did remember, I did say I was going
to eviscerate them if they did nothing at the tread line.
I just don't I'm so I expected it and I
don't understand it that. I don't know what else I
could say other than it's not malpractice, but it's beyond
wildly disappointing. And the only thing I could add to
trying to figure out their rationale is it, Oh, like
Palo hasn't necessarily looked great since coming back, and even
Frouz Wagner has not necessarily looked amazing since coming back,
and so they just feel like between that the injuries
in general that they're still dealing with, do they just
feel like it's not the year.
Speaker 2: I think that's inexcusable personally, because I.
Speaker 1: Don't think you needed to go what we need to
trade eight first round picks and get LaMelo ball or something.
Speaker 2: But we didn't even hear them linked then.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there was no chatter at all. That's crazy.
I didn't even think about that part.
Speaker 1: Did you even hear their name aside from idiots like
us speculating when dearon Fox became available, did you even
see them mentioned concretely anywhere?
Speaker 3: No, that's what I mean, Like, and that's like, that's
hard to do given how much slop is ladled out
to us over the last you know month or so,
did not see Orlando come up at all?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 3: I mean, they really must not have been doing anything.
Speaker 2: Our next team that did absolutely nothing. I surprised me.
Speaker 1: But maybe you shouldn't have because they're gonna win the championship.
The Portland Trailblazers.
Speaker 3: Winners of nine out of their last ten. Dan there,
but they should have been buyers. That's that's our criticism.
Why weren't they buying at the deadline?
Speaker 2: Henderson when Rookie of the Year this year?
Speaker 3: I mean, okay, should it matter that they've won nine
out of ten? Like, I mean, I get it if
you probably can't trade Jeremy Grant for anything of value.
Speaker 1: After sorry, but like look at what DeAndre Hunter or
Kyle Kuzma went for.
Speaker 2: What is what is Jeremy Grant?
Speaker 3: So that I get Robert Williams the third Plenty of
teams should have wanted that guy like and if you
want to think even like you know, more really long
term Timani Kamara would have got you something good like
pick Wise or like I just you know, and then
in between that is Simon's somewhere like I just I'm
I'm really surprised that they didn't trade anybody. But I
maybe they're persuaded by this run that they've been on.
I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I think if they're persuaded by it, they should
have went out and trade. They should have made a
BUYE like, let's put some first round picks on the
table and see who we could get in Portland.
Speaker 2: Was Kevin Durant did he want to come there at
the ball?
Speaker 3: We had reports that they called on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like play with a team. It might
actually be going somewhere. So I'm more receptive to them
doing nothing, not just because of how well they've been playing,
but I see, like I see the value in Okay
Tomaty Kamara is better on a good team, but maybe
the Blazers are a little bit closer than we think.
There was also I think it was done by Kevin Pelton.
I saw mentioned that January tends to be like when
the least trustworthy basketball is played. So how much value
can we assign to what they've done? I think when
I'm having trouble square, I am shocked they didn't do anything,
and I think, yeah, Robert Williams duap brief just still
being on this team with the number of squads that
needed Biggs. I look at it this way. I saw
a lot of people say, well, why' is Anthonty Simon
still on this team? They need his shooting and just
the idea of his shooting still on this roster, and
there are if you're saying they needed to move him
to continue to open up minutes for Scoot, I actually disagree.
There's a way to get Scooted thirty plus minutes per
game like other teams do it. Like you can have
a three guard rotation with your primary four general getting
thirty plus minutes. I think the guy to move or
not the guy, but you either needed to move a
big so maybe you downsize more often, or you need
to get rid of like a wing type forward type player.
Speaker 2: We knew it wasn't gonna be avda.
Speaker 1: That brings you back to Grant and I would say, look,
Scoot Henderson looks amazing and even just shade and sharp,
the self creation, the getting to the back like he's
looked really good. And I don't know how much I
buy of their recent stretch. Donovan Claton has been good
basically when he's on the floor all year. The Blazers
we called them what do we call them? Sneaky deep
ahead of the season, we were right. I'm at the
point where I'm just wondering, why didn't you just eat
like crow on the Jeremy Grant stuff to get rid
of the obligation to play him? And I think that
would have opened up minutes for a whole bunch of
people that don't necessarily need to play the wing spot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't. I mean, look, so they're one
nine out of centers it several times, and they're three
and a half back of the tenth seeded Suns, but
ahead of them also not in the plane yet are
the Spurs and Warriors who made upgrades. So it's like,
are you really like, how well?
Speaker 2: So? How so? Your metrics have them winning nine of
their last ten. That's what you have them at.
Speaker 3: It's a ninety percent win rate, Dan, Okay, how funny
would it be?
Speaker 1: They get into the plane, they win it, and then
they're pick conveys to Chicago.
Speaker 3: The Bulls just outsmart at us.
Speaker 2: All. Yeah, I was surprised they did nothing, and I
don't think they're not.
Speaker 1: Are they the most disappointing team to do nothing because
this is the last of the next team did stuff
that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3: No, I think it's got to it's just Orlando, right,
I'm thinking because Denver we kind of gave them a
pass or a little. I'm trying to see Denver Orlando
Minnesota wasn't gonna do anything Brooklyn. Yeah, I think I
think it's Orlando. But the Blazers are close second to me.
Speaker 1: Our final team, and not a lot of Spurs talk here.
Were you surprised, I'll actually ask you this, Were you
surprised at all that the Spurs didn't do anything else,
like of real material worth?
Speaker 3: Well, what was there to do? I guess you could
make another like, No, I guess not really. I don't
think so. I think this was their move and then
they're gonna evaluate this and they're gonna treat it like
the Rockets, like, so, let's see what we got with this,
and then kind of decide later.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you asked them if they knew they
were gonna make the darn Fox trade while sending out
Zal Collins, if Dominic Barlow would still be on this team,
because then I'd be campaigning for him to play every
minute that women Yama's not on the court. But the
Jazz did a bunch of stuff, and I think the
best way to frame it because we could talk about
they didn't make any sort of these huge moves, and
I think that was kind of by the way to me,
I at least took that as I saw it coming.
When they didn't take back Shrewder as part of that
sixteen trade, it was okay, Clarkson and Sexton aren't going anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think Andy.
Speaker 1: Larson subbed it up best saying they got kJ Martin,
Jalen Hochafino, Josh Richardson, Mobamba, and they subtracted Drew you
Banks and Patty Mills. So they added about three point
seven five million dollars in pro rated salary for the
rest of this season, and they ended up a net
plus of five second round picks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean this is before the deadline, but
that getting the Suns twenty thirty one for those three
like correct, you know whatever first and twenty five, twenty
seven to twenty nine. Yeah, just again, another another rebuilder.
I guess it's a little different for the Jazz because
they did have several guys that we, we and everybody
else talked about them potentially moving. So they're kind of
in the Portland boat in that sense, except they really
did go out and get stuff with, you know, at
pretty minimal cost.
Speaker 1: I liked what they did, and I don't think with
Sexton and even Collins, it was if there's not a
bull you over offer, why do it? I think you
could say, was there a deal where you could have
given up Jordan Clarkson for seconds?
Speaker 2: He seems to like it in Utah, and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, what happened where you look at it and say, Okay,
the Clippers went out after Bogdanovitch, but they might have
preferred Bogdanovitch over Clarkson, even with the season that bogdanovic
is having it.
Speaker 3: I think I would too, honestly. But yeah, it's a
little like Brooklyn too, where it's like, what's what's clearly
what's the rush? Because because Utah's going real slow with this.
Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, I thought they I thought they had
probably one of the more underrated deadlines. And when you
frame it as okay, three point eight million dollars for
five additional second round picks, I favorite. So and by
the way, do you think if he's healthy, Like I
could see kJ Martin specifically playing for this team.
Speaker 3: I was, you know, because he's kind of been I
don't know, not off the radar, but like he was
he put up like twelve and five for the Rockets
like two years ago and has has had years where
he's made threes, like and he's still really young. Like
there's a yeah, absolutely, there's a chance he could be
a piece that you're interested in keeping around.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, I like, I have no complaints here,
Whereas like when if it was the Blazers and you
thought you could identify players where it was, well, why
wouldn't you have just moved this guy for whatever?
Speaker 2: I don't really think that player existed on the jazz
It or exists on the Jazz Grant Everybody's favorite time.
Speaker 1: Although this might be our first inaugural of it trade
deadline superlatives, I think just most impressive, least impressive.
Speaker 2: We didn't make picts for this because you asked to
do this just now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I didn't know what I was gonna
say either, So let's just go with let's who had
the Well, let's eliminate the Lakers in Dallas because that
just makes it less fun from from.
Speaker 1: Sorry, but the Lakers acquired Luka Doncics and then still
kind of making a case to not have the best
trade deadline, right, hard to.
Speaker 3: Do, but they still had the best trade deadline. And
the MAVs getting Anthony Davis and still having the worst
trade deadline. Hard to do.
Speaker 1: Don't you hate that part of it though, because like
Anthony Davis, he's a great player and we've had to
reduce him to or he's being reduced to less than
that because of the context under which he arrived in DOWBN.
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, I mean the trade has nothing you can
make the case and people have that Anthony Davis was
the best player they realistically could have gotten for Luca.
It's just not about that. It's it's about like what
else did not come with him? All right? So who
had the best trade deadline? And this doesn't need to
be who got the best player, It's just like from
what their options were, what they gave up, what they got,
who are some who maybe we can just throw out
some contenders for this and we can narrow it down.
I think like honestly, Charlotte and Cleveland, because I'm looking
at the c's in alphabet, are the first two that
come to mind, Like I have those guys in the
A range, both of them for very different reasons.
Speaker 2: What about this breaking news.
Speaker 1: Boston just signed Tory Craig, which they really probably wouldn't
have done if they didn't trade Jade and Springer, So
I think it's Boston's probably the answer for me. No,
they gave up Jaden Springer, so they you were pretty
disappointed about that. Oh, I really was so my pick
when you first mentioned it. I think it's Cleveland just
as a contender that did something didn't settle the value
they got back and addressing their sort of biggest need,
or at least trying to. I still can't get over
the fact that, like they didn't have to give up
like even the twenty thirty one swap or something. So
I don't you can even make case like there are
teams that probably got better value out of either what
they got or what they sent out whatever.
Speaker 2: I think. I know Jimmy Butler went to Golden State,
I know Luka Dacich went to the Lakers. I know
Anthony Davis went to.
Speaker 1: Dallas I think that ends up being the most impactful
trade of the twenty twenty five NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 3: If we're not including, like, are the Spurs excluded? Is
the Fox deal not a deadline deal?
Speaker 2: Ooh no, I think they would have to be included.
Speaker 3: I gotta have the Spurs up there too.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: We didn't really talk. We've talked about that before. But
the more I think about that deal for Fox, the
more it's like he doesn't have to be their number
two guy to Wemby, like that isn't the only construction
of like of are the only way to view that deal.
And so if you just got Fox for what they
paid to get him, and again, we're doing this after
he's already debuted and they looked and looked good like that,
that's up there for me as like a high level
move potentially, But I think it's we might we might
feel bad about this, but I think I agree that
it's Cleveland just because it's like, in terms of what's
gonna impact this season the most, I think a team
that good adding a starter is like, that's hard to
top again Charlotte though, just getting just wrangling a couple
firsts for Mark Williams is like, you gotta love that one.
Speaker 1: Is there a case for the Clippers if Bogdanovic is
healthy and and the Bogdanovich of last year.
Speaker 3: They could be in consideration if if the best case scenario,
I mean, of course we should say that for every
trade for evaluating what about I mean, like, would Golden
State and or Miami potentially be in that group two
of like if this goes right, for certainly, if Butler's
great and the fit works, like the Warriors go from
a team that's not in the play into like maybe
the fifth or fourth or fifth best team in the West.
Speaker 2: I don't know, how wouldn't it be.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the ass of this would be
probably one to million. If we just got heat Warriors
in the finals. How credible would that be?
Speaker 2: Would be?
Speaker 3: That's mine? That's the matchup. Now. I didn't know more.
Speaker 2: Maverick Lakers in the Western Conference finals.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, I don't think that's gonna with This
is another podcast, like Who's got are the Lakers? Like
a sneaky? How good might the Lakers be if, like the.
Speaker 2: Williams thing were, What is the Lakers defense?
Speaker 3: It's terrible, It's terrible. Yeah, you're right, we're too far afield.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's any other nominees here for
I think you could look at, you know, Utah getting
good value, but it was just sort of just like
on the Washington getting too Are they the only team
that without get well, they have Kuzma, but.
Speaker 3: Like in Detroit, Detroit's in like that group too, A
good job with limited resources type of thing. All right,
so let's go to the other side of this. Dallas
is excluded. We we probably should exclude the teams that
didn't do anything. So that's gonna absolve Orlando of having
to maybe be in the conversation here. So who did
I'm like, I don't know, there's nobody like that really,
just well, it's Memphis probably right.
Speaker 2: If you're gonna ask me who had the worst trade deadline,
I think it's Memphis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. Unfortunately it is Memphis. I'm looking for
any other real candidates the Bulls, I guess, But like,
I don't know, should we really expect anything different.
Speaker 2: It's a good thing that neither of us immediately went
to the Kings.
Speaker 3: That's true. Good job fellas, I mean I think too,
Like in general, and I said this at the top,
there weren't that many trades. There were some, but not
many where it was oh my god, like this is
clearly like way out of balance. And so I think
that's part of the reason it's harder to think of
clear like quote unquote losers. And there's just a lot
of teams that are like mild winners, you know, that
the biggest bucket. If we're separating all these teams into
like you know, deadline performance chunks, everybody's kind of in
like yeah, pretty good, like the pretty good buckets, very full.
Speaker 1: If I to separate in like call team, not saying
they were the biggest losers, but if I had to
say they were losers, I would gravitate towards Atlanta, gravitate
towards Memphis.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, how do you feel about Philly.
Speaker 3: I mean, they're they're a loser in a vacuum. It's
just like the reason they had just the whole season
went off the rails, and like Embiid's been heard and
Paul George is heard in bad and like, I don't yeah,
they're they're in the conversation. I just don't think they
didn't do like the the Memphis The smart trade was
the move that caused the most like oh man, you
know reaction.
Speaker 1: I think, like on social media, watched it happen again
this past offseason where they're just making these cost cutting maneuvers,
and it's they're not even half baked measures, they're just
uncooked measures.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. So can we try it
this way?
Speaker 1: Two different categories, most shocking or surprising, riskiest move not
Luka Dacic Anthony Davis division.
Speaker 3: Well, most shocking, I think most shocking, and risk well,
it's it might just be Butler to the Warriors. The
risk is like insane because he could just be unbearable,
like we've seen Jimmy Butler. Just now he's gotten paid,
he's got financial security. You could say, like what's his
incentive to like give a shit or care you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1: Or try don't you question him a little bit that
he actively wanted to end up in Phoenix with what's
going on there. Another loser put that like the value
of getting off Nurkic ended up being lower than we thought.
But you can't escape that twenty thirty one trade when
your big additions are obviously future Hall of Famer Cody Martin.
Speaker 3: But it's just like I mean, would I would nominate?
I think for better or worse? I think both the
Calves and the Clippers have some risk, right, like with
Bogdanovic and ironically two Hawks former Hawks acquisitions are like, well,
I don't know what, what do you do? You have anything?
I think Butler is the most shocking to me, But
what else do you got on?
Speaker 2: That one?
Speaker 1: So shocking and I think risky it's for me. I
think he's brandon Ingram to the Raptors. I was surprised
that the Raptors when I heard them linked, because all
we heard the past few weeks is they want to
be involved on these bigger trades as a facilitator. Yes,
that we were kind of linked to brandon Ingram first,
like loosely it felt like, but it was no, they're
gonna end up facilitating something, and no, they do it again.
They trade a like a team that far under five
hundred trade. I know it's not their own, but trading
a first round pick. So I get it from a
value perspective, but from a timing and also just fit perspective,
I think which fit do you view is more strained or.
Speaker 2: Risky or just to fit on the court. Forget the
value Ingram in Toronto or Butler and Golden State.
Speaker 3: I think, like I think in terms of like floor
versus the distance between the floor and the ceiling is
bigger with Butler and Golden State. So I don't know
if that means it's riskier. But but Ingram just feels
kind of ill fitting full stop, So I don't know
if that doesn't I think I guess I would just
default to the to Butler because like it could go
so great or it could just be like this was
a catastrophic decision, like those are both on the table.
I think, what about in terms of risk, is it
possible that moving Middleton for Kuzma. Forget the Kuzma part
of it, but moving Middleton has like a really negative
effect on the vibe and Yannis and that's what all
like and and it doesn't work on the floor, and
then we have to talk about Yiannis being moved like
it's you know, a year from now or.
Speaker 2: Whatever that that's a good point. Would you have put
that in?
Speaker 1: For most shocking that they because when you heard them
link to Kyle Kuzma and even Chris Middleton was involved.
At first, I kind of dismissed it as, oh, that's
not gonna happen.
Speaker 3: It is. I mean, even have we talked plenty about
Middleton's issues like durability and stuff. That was pretty surprising
that they moved him just because he felt like a
core piece of the whole the whole deal there.
Speaker 1: It's funny if, like you know that Domino meme, it's
Yannie wants the Bucks to hire Adrian Griffin, and then
it ends with the big domino of Yannis requesting out
because like Janni's also co sign the Kuzmich trade apparently, right.
I just all the stuff that's happened in Milwaukee since
the title. You never have to apologize after winning a championship,
and I give them kudos for going after Dame. But
it's like, there's a real chance that winning the n
Season Tournament is the peak of the Damian Millard Bucks era.
Speaker 3: What was the best draft asset that changed hands?
Speaker 2: Phoenix first round?
Speaker 3: That's my answer too. Damn it.
Speaker 2: Well, here let's do this most underrated move.
Speaker 3: Hmmm. Let's see, I've gotta pull through here. We've already
said you can't. I can't just go back to Charlotte
getting two first round assets essentially from I think it's
I was.
Speaker 1: Thinking more in line to like players who will make
any I think Jake Larabia or the Kings might be
the most underrated one.
Speaker 3: For me, that's a really good one. I want to
give another answer, mm.
Speaker 2: The Rockets getting Jaden Springer for two minutes? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have a good one there. I think
Lauravia is probably the answer, because well, what about Like,
I mean, Wiggins is too good to count? Like, I
think Wiggins will just be really good and fit well
in Miami, but he's like too good of a player
to count as on he's the main asset going back
in the Butler deal?
Speaker 1: Could it be I mean this is going back, but like,
could it be the Nets getting Candlo Russell again?
Speaker 3: I mean he won them a game, so I mean,
so that's a negative for them. So yes, I don't
know you got any other thoughts. I feel like I
can say most overrated move before we get.
Speaker 2: Out of here.
Speaker 3: Ooh, most overrated move?
Speaker 2: Do you want to know what mine is? Or can
you guess it? Uh?
Speaker 1: Mark Williams, Yeah, Mark Williams, The Lakers I think is
the most overrated one.
Speaker 3: That's one where so I didn't see everybody like, maybe
you got too much of a Lakers influence on in
your in your various silos, because.
Speaker 2: I didn't was all in on it too, Like that's
really smart. I didn't, at least I thought he was.
I don't know, man well, I was in such.
Speaker 3: A Hayes trying to write to the end of the
deadline that I I didn't see any like reactions to it,
and I assumed everyone would say that's way too much
for Mark Williams. I didn't realize that wasn't the consensus
on it.
Speaker 2: It should be.
Speaker 1: Even Look Pete's iis from Laker film room, was all
in on it too, and I know that he's a
Laker Sam like that's one of the smartest guys in
the business.
Speaker 2: I was just like I thought there'd be more trepidation.
Speaker 1: Uh. I'm also giggling for anyone watching because Andrew Wiggins
will be wearing Jimmy Butler's number.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: That's that's that's cold. I like that, that's that's good
for him. I really hope Wiggins is great for Miami.
I will you know, I think like he feels like
and Cour alluded to this. Wiggins feels like a guy
that has This might be a knock and it might
be why a lot of people will never like him,
But he has a basketball like right sized in his
like life priority list, Like he understands this is his
job and he cares about it. But it's like he
he like cares about the right things. More than that,
it feels like, I don't know anyway, good mood Sailing
to Andrew Wiggins is my final thought.
Speaker 1: It's a I don't know if it's more of a
testament as to where the Warriors were at or what
we think about some of the players they were targeting,
but that we kept being hung up over on.
Speaker 2: They have to give up Andrew Williams for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, curse said it. They don't win
the twenty two title without him. Now, you can say
that about like seven guys on the roster, but it
is very true specifically for Wigans. So hopefully hopefully things
go well for him in Miami.
Speaker 2: Were you ready to take us out of here?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Good trade deadline, Dan, We did it. We wrote
a bunch, we talked a bunch, we evaluated everything perfectly.
None of this will come back to buy us. Thanks
everybody that stuck with us for this two hour pod.
This is always a really fun one to do. If
you enjoyed this, remember rate review, subscribe. Dan said it
at the top. Join our discord links for that YouTube
podcast description. Spread the word, tell your friends, tell your enemies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Thanks everybody. Shout out to Frank O'Keen an apologies to
Jared Allen