Speaker 1: What is up?
Speaker 2: Fellasco's I am Dan Valley coming at you with Mort
Jensen of the NBA Podcast, of Yahoo Sports, and of Forbes.
We are here to talk about rebuilding teams in the
Western Conference. Before we get started, for one, everyone go
check out the Eastern Conference edition of this that we did.
Speaker 3: Two, how are you doing doing well? Doing well? Just
enjoying the fact that we are posts both trade deadline
and also that we have a couple of days off
means I can catch up on a little bit of work.
How about you, sir?
Speaker 2: You know I'm doing spectacular as usual. But let's talk
about some rebuilding teams in the Western Conference. We begin
with the Houston Rockets, who, in my view have one
of the four best players of all time in Reed Shepherd.
Speaker 1: So what's the vibe check?
Speaker 3: Look, I mean, how many percent is he up to? Now?
Few goal percentage wise, like forty one, forty two? Is
he higher?
Speaker 1: That's look, that's more than fifteen?
Speaker 3: So it is? It is so definitely ten ten point
five vibe check. We're actually breaking the scale.
Speaker 2: This team, though, is fascinating because, as we mentioned on
the Eastern Comms version, rebuilding can have a negative connotation
because you assume it means bad. This team is still
hasn't exited rebuilding phase, but they're already really fucking good.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep. Look, this team is ridiculous, and I'm glad.
I'm very happy that they didn't accelerate the rebuild. I've
told you this before, I've told our shared listeners this too.
I even like I'm gonna basically repeat myself on a
lot of these issues because I'm just very excited to
see them keep growing. I understand at some point something's
got to give that they have to go in for someone.
It just shouldn't be like a thirty five year old
forty six year old. It has to be someone who
is like mid twenties, like late twenties at worst. I
just like the way that this whole team has come together.
And I actually have a question for you. Like to me,
Shane gun is the best player on this team, but
I'm in Thompson is getting really close to stealing that
mantle for me. I don't know where you are yet.
Speaker 2: Mean, I think would you argue or at least say
that he is the most important player long term on
this team.
Speaker 3: I think that's very reasonable, especially if that three pointer
is coming along.
Speaker 1: I mean, do we think it's coming on?
Speaker 2: I don't even know if it needs to be that,
Like if he's just going to be comfortable getting into
the mid range area that if they can surround him eventually,
I don't think they're there yet. With enough spacing that
might just be enough for him to be all NBA type.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you preferably want the three too, but
I hear you like it's it's not going to negate
the rest of his skill set whatsoever. He's so athletic
too that even even if you give him space should
still blow by you, Like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The three pointer feels like it'd be important for later on.
There's gonna be a point where he's just not nuclear
has has that nuclear athleticism, So you're not gonna be
able to rely on that just to get by from
guys in a dead stop.
Speaker 1: Not even dude.
Speaker 2: Doesn't even need steam like movement, and like just from
a dead stop, he will just explode past you. And
the things he can do defensively should be illegal probably,
Like that's just absolutely filthy. I don't know if I'm
prepared to go because I think that their biggest weaknesses
are coming are still in like it's the same thing
it was last year when it comes to the floor
spacing or more importantly, the half court creation.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he's already usurped.
Speaker 2: Alprinshangun in importance there, because by the way, the counter
to that might be, like, have either of them you
served Fred van Fleet in terms of importance just to
the half court offense. I want to make that clear
maybe like I'm just being sort of facetious there. That's
like the knit to pick if if Amen Thompson is
a viable stan Still three point shooter, it's just over
for the rest of the league. Like I don't know,
but we have proof that you don't necessarily need to
be that player to be dominant. And I know there
are different players, like look at Yannis, like if there's
a willingness to take them and you might have stretches
where they go into a higher clip, but Yiannis has
some different dimensions to his offense. As long as Aman
Thompson continues to like just the live ball reads that
he's now making as just a shot paker or a passer,
those are strides. And this is year one to year two.
I know you're supposed to make big jumps, but he's
gonna have an all defense case this year year one
to year two.
Speaker 1: That's wild.
Speaker 3: He No, he's he's outstanding, and he's a guy we're
gonna be talking about also when we get to the Spurs,
because I might have a thing. I might have a
thing there.
Speaker 1: You want him to the Spurs to trade for Amen Thompson.
Speaker 3: I don't think if this no, you know what, I'll
just say it because this is the thing I genuinely believe.
Though now it's my turn for the listeners to to
crap on me because they think this take is dumb.
If the Spurs win the lottery, I would be willing
to trade number one for Amen Thompson.
Speaker 1: What the Rockets do that?
Speaker 3: Though? See the fact that we're even that you're even
asking me that is tells you everything you need to
know of how insanely valuable that guy is. Right, the
fact that that offer, like if that offer was on
the table Cooper Flag essentially for Amen Thompson, and we're like,
would the Rockets do that? That's an insane discussion. I
mean no, no, it's not insane. And like, oh, of
course they should like it just underscores how fantastic this
young man is.
Speaker 2: Right, And I mean the issue is also too just
like the Rockets, even though they might be they're like
kind of just exiting the rebuild portion right because they're
so like it wouldn't necessarily make sense to rookies are
these unproven like quantities, and Aman Thompson is an imperfect
player who's already just one of the most impactful ones
on this team and league whatever.
Speaker 3: So the.
Speaker 1: Hardest part feels like it's done. It doesn't.
Speaker 2: It feel like they have the accumulation of talent necessarily
know that they can be sustainably good. What gets harder
is what's the path forward from here? And I'll couch
that before I throw it to you by saying I
feel like it's unfair for us to talk in any
sort of definitives until we see what they do in
the playoffs, because I think we have a pretty good
read on what they need moving forward, and I think
that they actually might have that player on the roster.
I don't think brookies are always supposed to be good.
We have sort of a history of Houston bringing along
youngster slowly and so maybe read Shepherd just is that guy,
But like, let's see how they lose. Let's see what
happens in the playoffs, Like are they struggling to generate
offense and the half court still? Does their transition attack
slow down at all? Does it clear that the dearth
of shooting we think they do have does that come
to bear in the postseason? You want that information because
then that's how they should react moving forward.
Speaker 1: But as of right now, like what is the path
from here for them? Is there?
Speaker 2: I'll even say this way, is there a realm in
which it's just you run this back next year as
it is? And that's like you're banking on more Like
maybe they go into the playoffs went around and you're
sort of banking on some of these guys will get
better is shooters. Yeah, and we're going to be a
contender organically that way.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't rule that out. I'm still not fully convinced
that Fred Athlete is the guy moving forward at that
point guard position. But if his play can sort of
be negated by everyone else, which I think it can,
especially if reed Shepherd improves, gets more minutes and you
see another jump from a'm and Thomson and also Shinkun.
I think he's having a down year, to be fair,
like he's better than what he's shown this year. I
think you can absolutely roll it back. There are players
that I'm worried about, you know, quote unquote, like I
don't know if Jabari Smith is a necessarily a keeper.
I also don't know if there are better well, there
are better options than Jalen Green out there, whether they're attainable.
This different conversation. So like they have some players that
I'm not necessarily like riding in stone as Oh yeah,
these are just locked moving forward. But would I have
like an overarching concern about rolling this exact roster back
next year? Probably not.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I think it's more rooted in how
big of a role Ken he's certain of these players.
Because when you know you have your base of let's say,
if you had to boil it down to two players
of I guess Shang Gun and Thompson and then flesh
out the roster from there, is that how you would
view this If you're running the rockets, there could then
be the question of okay, like how big or how
good of a fit are these other players? And so
I could see that from I actually think Jabari is
quite important because of the limitations that Shang Guon and
Thompson has as a shooter, and so knowing he provides
that stretch. But that's when you start getting into the
money of it all. He's extension eligible this summer, Tari
Easan's extension eligible. And then how big of a role
is one do you expect like those two to play
moving forward?
Speaker 3: And then you should start Tari Easton should take that
starting spot. He's he is a much better player than
Jabari Smith. He's much more influential, especially defensively. I don't
think the gap, well, there is a shooting gap. I'm
not going to say there isn't. Efficiency wise, it's very minimal.
But you also have to account for volume, and that's
where Jabari is better. I'll concede that much. Well, I'm
making that lineup trade ten times out of ten.
Speaker 1: I go back and forth on that.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't think that the defensive gap is
all that big between Tari and Jabari Smith Junior.
Speaker 1: And I think, okay, I think.
Speaker 2: Jabari Smith can do more up and down the positional
spectrum and that Tari Easton does more of like the
caps lock like disruptive stuff. That's also what makes this
team so fascinating. And so but how do you again,
how do you juggle that? There's those two are both
extension eligible and then you also kind of have to
figure out one do we trade everybody and rebuild around
Nate Williams. That's a question you have to ask. But
also like, okay, can't wait more? Where does he fit
into this? And then when is the like if you
still believe in Read Shepherd, which I think, it's just
it'd be fucking stupid to just write him off for
why you rave this is not talking about the rockets,
about Peple's impresions of him, be fucking stupid to write
him off entirely just based off what he's showing you
this rookie season. But you also you want to be
good now because you are good now? How do you
juggle though, well, what is Reed Shepherd worth to us?
How do we like bring him along without necessarily compromising
when we'reheaded or is he I think some people view
him inside and outside of Houston as the vessel through
which they maybe acquire that next guy.
Speaker 1: I don't That's.
Speaker 2: Going to be a fascinating discussion for them. I'm still
in the mode of just kind of enjoying what they've
built and that lay of the land. But there are, like,
after the playoffs, depending on what happens, they're gonna be
real wholesale questions that need to be asked. And I
don't think you commented on this is it? Are you
looking at this team through the prism level? Okay, we
have a man Thompson, we have Shanegun. What's the best
way to optimize it long term from there?
Speaker 3: No, because that means you directly build around them, and
I think that's tough because again, Shangun, as good as
he is not, still not like a tremendous floor spacer.
And I do think when you build around someone, you
have to build around their offense first and foremost. I
understand building around like defensive oriented guys, but like I'm
always building, I'm tailoring a team around you know, my
my guy's offensive capabilities, and so Shangun to me, would
probably be best serve as a secondary creator, as a
secondary scorer. I still think they need that one guy
like that prime a guy to like win a championship.
That doesn't mean they can't be as shits on a
fund until they find that guy, if they ever do.
And that's also why I think they're a little bit
you know KD. Horney at times like because that's that guy, Like, yeah,
it absolutely is. He's also damn near forty, so like,
what are we what are we really doing here? They
have some big questions. I think a lot of Rockets
fans were kind of hoping Jalen Green would become you know,
that dude didn't really materialize. He's solid, but he's not
that guy. Am and Thompson, as good as he is,
definitely some offensive weak points I think are perfectly legitimate
to highlight. Fred ran Lee has declined, let's just be
real about and he's still it's older.
Speaker 1: That was always like the stop gap. But yeah, for them,
exactly that's it.
Speaker 2: Do you think then, I'm not even saying he needs
to be their best player? How do you figure out
the Reed Shepherd situation then, where he has not been
a huge part for the most part of their program.
But if you were ever to do that, it probably
will come at an opportunity cost if we're looking at
next season specifically.
Speaker 1: But then doesn't it feel premature to.
Speaker 2: Give up on him unless it's for the right guy,
and I also get rocket stands frustrations, which I hope
that everyone heard what you said at the top of this,
which was I think they were smart not to do
anything at the trade down, like let's see what this
team can do, so I want to that's where we're
approaching this from. I find the read shepherd of it
all is interesting because unless they internally just have decided,
like so many people have decided that he can't be
like someone who drives an offense or be a I'm
not even saying to be the best player on this team,
but be sort of the someone one of the two
guys spearheading what is a it's called a postseason proof
attack that like, I don't know how you make that
judgment already, and maybe maybe they can so that that's fine,
Like it's they have they're so good now, But if
you don't think that you have the type of player
in the house who addresses what is your biggest offensive
floor right floor right now, which is it's you could
say floor spacing, but I really think it's half court creation,
like they are just they need more levels to their
half court offense. Like I wonder how you go about
like resolving that without feeling like maybe you're jumping the shark.
Speaker 3: I don't have an answer for that, because it's a
really good question. It's I also think.
Speaker 2: I want to the thing I'll ask you is Kevin
Grant Older. It's that's so competent. I also don't think
that he is makes their offense better. He's not the solution.
He wasn't like we've seen in Phoenix, Like this is
not like primary driver of an offensive material anymore. And
would you give up like what like is this a
team where I've seen some Rockets fans I disagree, but
they think that Jalen Green is going to be better
or as good as Devin Booker. But I'm looking at
it and saying, like, if Devin Booker came on the
table this summer, he might be sort of the perfect
type of player for them to go after. Can he
drive the offense in the interim if you're waiting for
Amen Thompson to read Shepherd, assuming you keep both to develop,
and then he could play off other people as you
sort of mix and match the pieces there.
Speaker 1: That's the type of player that I.
Speaker 2: Think they need. And I don't think where Jalen Green
fails for me. It's in a couple departments. I don't
think he's ever shown Devin Booker has a higher gear defensively,
whatever you of Devin Booker this season, and Devin Booker
is a better passer, whatever you think that is the
Those are the two biggest differences. And you can overlook
the defensive stuff because of how good you are like
everywhere else basically, but that is the player that I'm
looking at is Okay, they become available, it almost feels
like the Rockets would be even more so than I
liked it the Aaron Fox for them. But like I said,
when he became available, I wouldn't have done it this
year like Devin Booker.
Speaker 1: If he becomes.
Speaker 2: Available like that type of player where if I'm Houston,
I would almost feel obligated to be involved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I think that's actually the correct
way to look at it. Because he's he fits the timeframe.
You can definitely see like a natural transition from him
to a new era. I do think book has not
been played enough on off ball sorry over the course
of his career, but that might actually change here because
he'll be playing with players who can actually set him
up like Thompson in the open floor is creative passer.
Shane Gun in the half court is a very creative passer.
Maybe there's something there. I also think for book to
have all these guys who can run the floor, again,
a'man is obviously a name there. You have Tary Easton,
who's like a maniac running the floor. That is the
player you put in there. The question is what is
the package? Is that? Reaed Shepherd, Fred Van Lead and
draft picks. I'm not I don't know what the package is.
Maybe that's not even important right now because we're just
throwing out a theoretical but I think that's a really
good name, Like that's one where I could see that
making sense.
Speaker 2: Would you give up you're running the rockets. I don't
know what the rest of the package needs to look like.
Are you giving up read Shepherd for Devin Booker. I'll
preface it by saying I would.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's easier sometimes for us who are further
removed from the rockets to just that. But this is
also coming from me who's had read Shepherd number two
on my board coming out of the draft, and just
again I can be wrong. I have Cody Williams number
one coming out of there. I could just ad that
could look back and say, wow, you missed on that
entire draft class somehow, But I don't think I would hesitate.
It depends on the rest of the compensation. But I
think when you're looking at a lot of trade discussions,
if they ask for Aman Thompson, the answer is just no,
like unless they offering you Victor webernond like there's a
there are names, but it's just Devin Booker is not
one of those names. Do use read Shepherd like it's
Devin Booker enough for you to part with Read Shepherd?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I agree, of course it's Devin book.
Speaker 1: Where are you at with Read Shepherd?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 2: Since I think this is where people have disagreed with
me the most that I still believe in Read Shepherd.
Speaker 3: I think he's not been invested in enough. I think
the Rockets organization could easily have found him more minutes.
I know that it's a group of a lot of
players who do you know, quote unquote to serve, but
we're seeing a lot of teams this year where their
primary guys are not playing forty five forty four minutes
per game. You know, Cleveland is a perfect example that
you can go deep where I see, maybe you have
two guys now who's cracked forty minutes per game on
that roster, but like a lot of them were totally
you know, satisfied, you know, twenty eight forty minutes per
game because they knew that, all right, we're we're gonna
save those legs for the playoffs. I think the Rockets
have that sort of that same luxury. I definitely think
you could have shaved off like the five and a
half minutes from Fred. He's averaging forty five and a
half minutes, Like you could definitely get him down to thirty.
You could have added those minutes onto to read like
he's not played, you know, solid minutes all year long.
He's been in and out of the rotation in the set. Well,
not of the rotation as such, he's always seen the floor,
but like one day's five minutes, another days seventeen minutes.
It's just in and out and he doesn't really know
what he has to expect. For most rookies getting that
down knowing, hey, you know what, I'm gonna play twenty.
I know I'm gonna play fifteen. Fine, If you have
that and you know that's what you're gonna get, you
can go into those stints far more prepared. You don't
have to look over your back all the time. And
that's probably the one shortcoming of emai Udoka is that
he also tends to just treat young guys with I
don't want to say disrespect. That was the wrong word
for me. That was the one I had in my head.
That's not the right word. But I don't think he
takes into account how crucial it is for young guys
to get accustomed to a flow.
Speaker 2: I guess that's fair, but they don't. They have a
I guest because they It's an interesting way to look
at it, because I think you could there'd be some
people argue it took them too long to get and
we're removed from this discussion, but it took them too
long to get to Alpha and Shangun as a focal point,
because you also argue, like, did that benefit him at
all by being brought along more gradually? Even with aman
Thompson last year, his usage and part of that was
he started injured, So I don't know how that would
have looked different if he was healthy to begin the year,
but his usage was different from it is now. They
weren't playing nearly as many minutes as he's playing now.
Speaker 1: Couldn't there be like.
Speaker 2: A benefit to maybe bring you along slowly or do
you view that as it does? I feel like, unless
there's been studies done, it feels very unscientific.
Speaker 3: It is. I mean, yeah, it's up to a player,
It's up to each individual. I mean we're all wired differently.
If I had a job where I wouldn't I didn't
know what was coming my way at any point in everything,
at no point whatsoever, and everything was kind of a surprise,
I would I would, you know, get a stress diagnosis
pretty quickly in that job, Whereas in another situation, someone
might thrive under those circumstances because they're like, yeah, I'm
a work sick. Oh I like being thrown off the
curve all the time, Like I want to do that.
Like fine, But I think there are some players who
respond poorly to being you know, pulled in and out
of those situations. And while we're talking here, I just
pulled this up. So Shepherd has played just twenty four
games this season where he's cracked ten minutes. For example,
that's I mean, so that's sixteen minutes sixteen games where
it's below that, and and like he's gone all the
way down to like three minutes and fifteen seconds, four
minutes for forty six Like this is not sustainable. You
have to give him a shot at it, and even
if it comes at expense of Fred, like for five
minutes a game. I mean, Jesus Christ, of course you
like you're you're playing with How's money? As is, like
no one expected you to be this good this year,
But like, realistically, what are your expectations here finals? I
don't think so, Like this is the second half of
the season. If you want to make some run in
the playoffs, if you want to make you know, your
best case in the playoffs, might also be a good
idea to shave off some minutes for Fred. If you
want to run him for forty eight forty nine minutes
in the playoffs, why not give those to read Shepherd,
tell the young man, here are fifteen sixteen minutes game
every single night.
Speaker 2: Impressis Yeah, I would have loved to have seen him
more sub five hundred minutes on the season. Is I
can't look at that and read, oh man, his true
shooting is so far below fit. Like, no, I don't
know what to make of a season other than yes,
he could have been better. But like you said, I
think that also the role they ask him to play
where you're gonna come in. And I think relative to
other rookies, I don't think he spent a ton of
time necessarily on the ball, but I mean relative other rookies,
I do think he spent more time on the ball,
but like that's something that you just might need more
and more reps for. So it's not like he's the
highest usage on ball player. They're not relying on him
to make all these plays for other or to generate
all of his own shots. But it is something like
he has to put the ball on the deck, Like
this isn't someone who's just out there standing still and
like figuring out how to cut. I'm so interested to
see when and where the full extent of his role
gets explored. I don't know if it's gonna be Houston,
and I don't that's not even an insult to the Rockets.
I don't know if they've made a mistake with him.
I just think they're so good that it makes it
tougher to not just bring along youngsters, but especially like
the higher end youngsters, because you're always he's always going
to be tied to being the number three overall pick.
Is there anything else about this team though, like looking more?
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, we're not done with Shepard yet, because there's
there's one thing I want to point out. You know
how he had these very very great metrics, just steel metrics,
block metrics in college. Yeah, yeah, he's actually having Hey,
he has those in the NBA too, despite the fact
that he's not played, you know, it's not cracked five
hundred minutes.
Speaker 1: He will. I mean to be fair, the talent around
him definitely helps.
Speaker 2: But like he's always fought, and there's like this misconception
that he's like six foot and unless they measured him
and shoes, he's always been listed at six two six three,
and that makes a difference in the NBA.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree with Aaron McCain as an example.
Speaker 3: Now, and the reason I mentioned it is when those
type of you know, stat percentage or block percentage and
steel percentage, when those in Slade, it does suggest, you know,
give him a minute bump. Let's see if this is sustainable.
So I definitely think this is you need to give
him more minutes in how a way, shape or form
you figure that out?
Speaker 1: What you need to what is Is there anything else?
Speaker 2: It feels like there's so much to talk about this team,
but we do kind of need to like centralize it.
Is there any Is it just the biggest question of
how does this season end and where they go from
here with it? Or is it the bigger question how
much more room does Albert and Shangun End or Ahmed
Thompson have to expand their development to get a lot better.
Speaker 1: Than they are now?
Speaker 2: And like shang Gun, I know you said it's a
down year offensively for sure, but like the fact that
we've talked about this guy the past two seasons is
an active participant in a phenomenal defense. That's huge, and
it sort of makes you wonder, like, well, what could
be in store for him moving forward? Even Ahmen Thompson,
where it's you already mentioned the three point shot. What
if it just he turned into oh man, he's shooting.
Speaker 1: Fifty seven percent on floaters or something like that.
Speaker 3: Look, I am open for all these things, and that's
I think that should be the priority that should be
player development because if you're winning now with the state
of where the players are right now, where most of
them have shooting concerns, and you're still winning. That means
you're doing something right. So at no point should you
stop adding to these guys games. And like Jesus Christ,
you're so young, Like, let me see, what is Shinkun
twenty two? Twenty two? And what about Thompson, he's like
twenty one? Yeah, twenty two?
Speaker 2: Okay, who was younger than I thought. I'm on Thompson
was a was a touch older than I thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so both twenty two, but all right, I mean
I'm in Thompson just eighteen days ago he turned twenty two,
so like he's still a pump.
Speaker 2: He's what you're saying, super he's approaching the end of
his career and might.
Speaker 3: As well trade him for Katie now, I mean that's what. No. No,
I mean, they're so young that they still have time
to build on those but it's just crucial that the
Rockets keep doing it. They don't see, all right, look,
this thing is winning right now, let's get completely stuck
on that and then just go with this Like, no,
you have to keep building in whatever scenario. And also
like to your point about reed Shepherd, and I will
also include kim Wickbourn this. There are times when I
think Udoka and a lot of head coaches are guilty
of this. Tens just think too defensively, where like sometimes
you just need someone to come in and fucking hit
buckets and like put points on the board, and where
he's like really stubborn, like no, I'm just gonna play
Dylan Brooks fifteen more minutes. Where're like, no, that's not
a great idea, Like get Cam in there, get someone
in there who can actually create a three point look
on their own.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think Orlando has been maybe the most guilty of
not playing the guys who are defensive liabilities.
Speaker 1: It seems like they're so consumed with just being above.
Speaker 2: Average at every spot that it caps their offensive potential.
So I think I would agree with you there though
this is maybe it's under my my own point, but
in support of the people who want the instant results
hit shots. This year read Sheepherd has not he's thirty
percent on catching yes, not.
Speaker 3: No, but that I think that changed. Like if you,
let's say, from from after the end of the the
NBA All Star Week, you know the days off. Let's
let's say from from now on when the games returns,
he gets sixteen minutes per game, and he gets them
like clockwork. Are you gonna tell me he's not in
a better position to make shots because he knows what's coming.
Speaker 1: No, I think, and look to your point. I decided
to look it up.
Speaker 2: Rookies who have played as many minutes as read Shepherd
at least and posted his steel and block rates while
being shorter six or five or shorter.
Speaker 1: There's only matis stiple. And so now you could say, mate.
Speaker 2: Steple didn't pan out on offense, but like he's doing
something like those did translate, and I think that's important.
Speaker 3: He's Australian. Of course he didn't pan out on offense.
Speaker 1: But now you're in my train of thought.
Speaker 2: I trust his shot making potential enough to where you
saw the levels of what he could do from the
mid range. You saw what he could do as a
ball handler, and I like, I just is the argument
that reed Shepherd is never going to hit at mid
like wide opening jump shots is that is that he's
shooting shooting under twenty nine percent on wide open threes,
not even semi wi like wide open do you really
think that that's gonna stick?
Speaker 3: No, of course, I mean he's twenty, he's twenty years old.
He's an old fart. Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1: That, you know.
Speaker 2: And maybe this comes back to the information like playing
him more, does it make it harder to like render
a verdict on where do the rockets go from here
without seeing more from Reed Shepherd? And it's actually I
don't want to spend so much time on it because
there's other guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jabari's injured, but.
Speaker 3: Like, well you do you absolutely do you? You? Let's
not lie to the audience, Dan, you absolutely want to
turn this into a red Shipper podcast, Fine, just lean
into it.
Speaker 2: I just find it weird how many people are out
on him or not willing to understand that you can
still we're not even a full year into these players' careers,
and everyone's opinions like, like I've adjusted some priors and
I just don't think I've seen enough from Reed Shepherd
to adjust my prior lower.
Speaker 3: Can I ask you why you're so like surprised at that?
How long have you covered the NBA? Sir?
Speaker 1: No, No, no, I'm not. Did I use the word surprised?
Speaker 3: I guess it feels like you're surprised.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it's a reasonable I don't.
My point is, I don't think.
Speaker 2: It's unreasonable to have that belief. If I held if
that was my belief leading into the draft, has like
if is it done enough for like, has Rechepherd played
enough for me to say, oh, I need to just
adjust and he's done?
Speaker 1: Like he's there's no star potential.
Speaker 2: There no no Who is the third most important player
on the Rockets long term? And if you think there's
they don't even have their first two and Shangun and
Thompson that's you can note it here too, But I'm saying, okay,
they're one and two to me in some order. Who
do you view as the third most important? I think
that's border I mean he is good. I feel like
that's borderline insane.
Speaker 3: That's fine. I am borderline insane, So that's that's okay.
I can live with that now. I well, actually still
used to love the dude, and I think the I
think part of what's keeping him a little bit back,
especially offensively, is the fact that you don't have the spacing.
It is pretty I don't know, I don't want to say,
easy to cut him off, but I do think with
increased spacing with a real creator as well, which I
don't consider Fred as being, at least not to the
extent that used to be. I think there's another level
to targetsan Offensively, I think he's disruptive as all. Offensively sorry, defensively,
of course, I think he's a hell of a rebounder.
I think his his playmaking has actually gotten better. I
was a big fan of him coming in to the draft.
I had him second on my big board. That was
a little too aggress so I'll admit. But so this
is me trying to like justify myself. Trust me, I
will take the l at every single turn that I
can because that just gives me a teaching opportunity and
teaching moment. I still think there's something there. Whenever I
watch him play, there's like, yeah, like there if he
played in a more open system. Fuck yeah, he's like
a full time starter.
Speaker 2: So I will say insane is not fair because it's
when you're talking about who he's in contention with, it's
like yes, So I think that's fair.
Speaker 1: I guess I struggle to see.
Speaker 2: There's been some weird health stuff with him, and is
he ever going to be someone This again could just
be a function of like the Rockets have so many dudes,
is he ever gonna be the thirty minutes per game
type of player? But this is I I guess I'd
like to see what he would look like in an
expanded offensive role. I'm probably just lower on that than
you would be.
Speaker 1: But he's They have a ton of candidate.
Speaker 2: I think there are some people that would say it's
Cam Whitmore even they would make.
Speaker 1: A kid like that's just how many dudes are on
this team. And maybe now's the time.
Speaker 3: You're hurting me right now, Dan, because you just argue
for Shepherd and you base your belief on what he
did in college?
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, what did tari Eathan do as a shot
creator in college?
Speaker 1: For everybody else?
Speaker 3: Oh no, So that's the thing that I fully recognized
that the tier one skill of shot creation on your
owner court is not a skill of his. That said,
he was an overwhelming offensive monster and in his last
year at LSU, like this guy was averaging I think
twenty five on a per thirty six minutes like scale,
and it was it was done by a transition, like
he looked like Sean frickin Marion. Like what I'm saying
is you didn't need to draw a place for him
to be effective, like he he sort of figured it
out on his own all the time. It was like,
all right, I have an opportunity here on a dead
play or like a you know, or a broken play,
I can I can facilitate something out of this. He
sort of made the most off of every single chance
he had. That's why I'm so high on him, and
I think in the NBA, when you have so many
mouths to feeds, he's become a little bit forgotten.
Speaker 2: He's also more valuable in that context too, because even
though you're saying you could envision him doing more offensively,
he doesn't. Like if Reed Shepherd isn't getting more reps offensively,
his val the floor falls out from underneath him. That's
not gonna have way taris him because as you said,
like he doesn't need the plays. So my overreaction in
the moment was certainly an overreaction, I guess my more
more so, my point is, I think you could make
a reasonable case for everyone, like like all of their
young guys, you could order them, like as long as what.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: As long as Aman Thompson's in your top two, you
can probably do a bunch of different orders and figure
out a way to justify it. And to that end,
they have all these future picks, they have all these
interesting young players. They have some tough decisions because of
extensions coming up. But none of these guys are gonna
be making more money aside from Shang Gun and Green obviously,
Like the next time pay Raises kick in will be
twenty twenty six, twenty seven. Do you have another year
of grace if you really wanted to take it? What
are the rebuilding vibes here? What's the vibe check scale
one to ten.
Speaker 3: Well, they're winning. I love the cohesion, even though Reach
Shepherd must be frustrated as hell. I'm gonna give them
like a seven point seventy five.
Speaker 1: Why so low? You gave the Wizards like an eight.
Speaker 3: No. See again, it's all about the process to me,
and right now, I don't like the process of putting
Reach Shepherd on the back burner. I also think again,
like I alluded to, emy Doka has a tendency to
just kind of think defense defense, defense, which I don't
think is the right path forward. So there are some
real strategical like challenges ahead of them that I could
suspect he's not ready for, and that brings them down
a little bit.
Speaker 2: So I have them at a nine point three, and
they would be higher if Reed Sheppard has gotten any
sort of regular playing.
Speaker 3: That's really high. I love it. I see it like
I'm just a little bit more skeptical, but I love it.
I love the upside there, I love the confidence.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe I'm taking even more of a longer
view approach from it though, because I'm looking at, like,
look at all these outs they have. If they go
into the playoffs and get trucked, and it's just we'll
just go trade for the exact type of player we need.
Speaker 3: That's fair. That is that is fair assuming you get
the right deal.
Speaker 2: Which is I don't know if they I think their fans.
If you don't think is a Rockets fan or a
Rockets personnel member that dearon Fox was the answer, Okay, fair.
If you don't think that Devin Booker would be an upgrade,
I guess I would need to ask what.
Speaker 3: Is who is? Who is? Yeah, it'll come back Wimby
and it'll just be like, okay, sure, fine, but that's like.
Speaker 2: I understand the darn fox hesitants a ton because of
the timing, for one, but also there is if he's
shooting there. I tend to believe in him more as
a shooter because the tough jumpers. He hits like thirty
five plus percent on step back threes again this year,
normally a mid range master. I understand the hesitance though,
when you have some other floor spacing question marks on
this roster. If you were to be presented with an
opportunity to get Devin Booker and as a Rockets personnel member,
you kind of said, well, that's just not it right.
Let's see if, like we just said, this team is
good enough to let it ride.
Speaker 1: So we'll see. That was a lot of time on
the Rockets.
Speaker 3: Too much time.
Speaker 2: Let's move on to the New Orleans Pelo kids. Do
I don't think they thought they were going to be
rebuilding this year, but.
Speaker 3: Oh man, let's just agree to not talk about them
for as long as we just did the Rockets because
they are so far less interesting at this stage. I mean,
their rebuild is is it even like fully underway yet?
Speaker 2: And if it is, it's involuntarily under the way, Like
this is a team where I think it's fair for
them to still put out a plan, Unlike the Bulls
were like, let's.
Speaker 3: See what's going on, Like for them the Pelicans specifically,
if the brain trust there and David Griffin was like, yeah,
we need to figure out something. By all means like
that's fine, take your time.
Speaker 1: Yeah there.
Speaker 2: So I'm stubborn in the sense of if you're saying
that they need to rebuild and like Zion Williamson can't
be a part of it, I just as long as
I have the idea or a hope upon the Zion
Williamson might be healthy for an entire season. He's the
path forward because I don't know what else. Maybe maybe
when the lottery and it's Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1: You make a change. From there.
Speaker 2: You have Trey Murphy, you have Zion, you have Herb Jones.
Like those are three dudes that I think you look
at and say, I know, Herb Jones isn't super young,
but they can be a future for us.
Speaker 1: And now you have some.
Speaker 2: Reasonable with Theavese mecI have a reasonable prospect at the five.
What's super complicated for them, you've kind of already made
you got some compensation for brandon Ingram Good whatever, Like
what is the Everything might depend on where they end
up in the lottery, but I'm yeah, I'm curious to
see how nuclear they get one way or the other?
Speaker 1: Is the plan forward?
Speaker 2: Just the guys I named, like those three or four
guys like those are the ones who are down plus
this year's pick, and we're gonna kind of see how
it unfolds or is it well, we got this pick,
so now we're open a trading zion. I don't I
honestly don't know. And what makes this even more complicated
the Achilles injury for Dejonta Murray is such a bummer. Yeah,
and it's worse and I hate kind of like contextualizing
organizational grief because it really does suffering.
Speaker 1: But the timing is is.
Speaker 2: He even gonna play next season or what is he
gonna come back before like February or so that has
to be part of your calculus too, because if he's
not gonna be available for forty at least a minimum
of forty to fifty games, how good are you supposed
to be and how do you plan around that?
Speaker 1: What would you do as this organization nuclear button.
Speaker 3: I will say this, I think you're right that if
Sion Williamson looks as if he can go through a
full season, you at least attempt that. But at the
same time, I also feel like you're just kind of
kicking the can down the road, like you shouldn't accept
just anything for him. But I do think if the
right deal comes along where you get something that's more sustainable,
I guess something that's more available. Yeah, I'm not shutting
that door on assigned Williamson trade. Like, I'm not rushing
to like trade him. I'm not looking for some modest return,
Like I'm not going out and saying, you know, like
for what the Bulls got back for cycle being. I'm
not going that route because then I might as well
just keep him until he's found some sort of stability
in his own body to the point where I can't
trade him later. But I'm just generally open to taking
on calls for him. And if a deal comes up
where some team is like, yeah, we'll give you an
inspiring contract and like the seventh pick in the draft, Yeah,
I'm taking that.
Speaker 1: So you're taking the seventh pick in the draft, you
would move Zion Williamson for.
Speaker 3: I will Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's just I get it.
Speaker 3: I get what you say. Wow, though I get.
Speaker 2: It, it's just so to me, it's so hard to
find someone who can even conceptually be an All NBA
player that I under like he's Zion has not earned
the benefit of the doubt when it comes to availability.
But that's also doesn't that provide you a little bit
of cover too, because are you I guess you're kicking
the cam. But he's not someone who's then going to
ruin your rebuild because if the reason you're not good
enough is because he's not available enough, like it's But then, yes,
that does complicate it. Well, how do you develop and
flesh your team out? Because that, right, and that kind
of issue they ran into with brandon Ingram is that
it felt like they tried to build their image of
a team that was structured around Zion but built to
exist without him. And you don't want to have that
type of duality.
Speaker 3: No, you can't. You can't and and and look, at
the end of the day, even if you get the
best version of Zion, you have no idea how long
it's gonna last. You can have twenty six games to
open the season where he plays MVP caliber basketball, and
all of a sudden he's out for four months, and
suddenly that those four months turned into eight months. And look,
it's an organization, especially one that's rebuilding, needs some level
of clarity, It needs some level of cohesion. It lyst needs,
certainly a level of oversight and overview. Sion casts a
shadow over that, and it's uninvoluntarily so and it's unfortunate
that that's the way it is, because I'm sure he's
just as frustrated about this as we are. Like I'm not,
I'm not putting this at the feet of Sion, but like,
you can't if you're the Pelicans, you can't sit there
and just look at Sion and go, well, you dictate,
dictate terms over the next three or four years. You
just you can't. You have to at some point just say, look,
we realize that we can give up a guy who
might win MVP somewhere. But for us, it's been six yeah,
six years of just not knowing what the hell is
going on at any given point. Like the fan base
is out, it's completely out, not just unsilent, but like
on the whole experience because you're like, we have no
idea what to expect year in and year out. I
fully fully empathize with that, and for an organization to
rebuild and say, all right, let's get this, like, let's
get our ducks in a row. If someone comes up
and offers you, like the seventh pick and an expiring
for sion like fair, you might not take it. But
if you like slam the phone down on that offer,
you're not like you're not making yourselves better necessarily.
Speaker 1: That's fair.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of where I think they should
go will hinge on where they end up in the lottery,
because it's probably easier to hit the nuclear button if
I mean, they're gonna have top four lottery odds. So
if you're just gonna get a top four pick, and
depending on who it is, it just it still puts
them in such a bizarre situation because of like de
Jenttay Murray's just there now. And I'm not saying somebody
you need to plan around, but I think what you
would you agree that the the what does this team
need the most? I guess you could say, if you
want to, like a higher end frontcore partner for Zion
and then it eaves measy. Sure, but doesn't it still
feel like and maybe it's not this because are you
thinking de Jontaymurray is gonna be available at some point
in your future but still kind of a floor general?
But who can also play off Zion because he's supposed
to be on the ball Aton or is it? What
is this team's like if you're I'm assuming they're not
trying to blow it up at this point, what would
be the biggest archetypal need that they need to go
out and get.
Speaker 3: Hmm, it's a really good question because I'm not I'm
not even considering that.
Speaker 1: Flag would have been the best troll answer possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah it is, that's and that probably is my answer,
And without any trolling, I still think that this pathway
just leads to mediocrity and broken hearts. I don't I
don't see a scenario here where in any way, shape
or form you can rely on on the playoffs, Sile Williamson,
And you're right, Deyonce is just kind of there. He's
gonna get moved eventually when he gets back. You can't, like,
I don't think anyone's gonna trade for him now because
you have no idea what condition he's going to be in.
McCollum still has a year left after this year, Like
he's tradable, but you're not gonna get anything big for him.
So like Sion is probably your one piece where you
can get something right, like if it only takes one
scene to buy into this ideology of oh a possible
m v P. And so that's the route I would go.
But like if you if you're asking me, if we're
if this seems sticking with Zion, I would need a
floor general who runs the show from the start to beginning,
where Ssion has to be a secondary creator, a secondary
reactionatory player to that player.
Speaker 1: So you want to reach Eard anymore.
Speaker 3: I want one camp whitmore and reach Shepherd. No, I
mean yeah, I think that.
Speaker 2: And I was actually going to say this, whether you
believe me or not, if the right call right now
is probably just to start over in some form. I
think the actual right call would be how do we
rebuild this team while making Zion like a different part
of the vision to where it's as long as he's
on this contract, he's the number two. Maybe probably not
the number three, because I don't even know what that
would look like offensively, but he is no more important
than the second. He's no higher than the second most
important player of your organization. And so you shift focus
from going how do we optimize this roster around Zion
and certainly shift away from how do we optimize it
independent of Zion? It's well, how like, how do we
get the optimal building block to be our face of
the future. Because I do agree you can't trust that
it would be Zion. I guess I just struggle if
you were going to get an offer for Zion and
you did mention this, I'm not moving him for the
sake of moving him unless you just think that the
situation so far gone you'd be better off cutting ties
and who maybe it does get there, But I do
think what you just laid out is the right answer.
Is we're looking to build around someone who can exist
with who can exist with Zion, but in the sense
that Zion is the one who has the game to
adapt to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's also difficult. So I wrote about this
over at Yahoo last year in the fall. I want
to say, like to me, Sion is the toughest archetype
to build around in the NBA right now. He is
an undersized four who struggles to play any other position.
He is ball like on ball reliant, not an off
ball thread in any capacity. You well, he'll he'll cut it.
But like he's not someone like Kevin Durant who's just
immediately pug plug and play like you get the most
out of him with the ball in his hands. He's
also a guy who you have to run the offense through.
He's like a rich man's version of Julius Randall that way.
He's not, you know, an overpowering rebounder. He's not a
great defender. So like the secondary skills, the Turkey skills,
they're not good enough to justify putting him into like
that you know, heliocentric offense that you kind of need
him to apply to. It's it's so difficult, and that's
why I'll I'm preferring personally to cut bait, because the
odds of him just kind of overcoming all of what
I just laid out are just so astronomically high. Then
I'm just not gonna roll the dice on it again.
I'm not gonna send him away for nothing like That's
that's preposterous. I wouldn't do that. But like that's why
I said expiring and.
Speaker 2: Conversation or the Pelicans just better off waiving him at
one point, do you remember that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not there. Yeah I'm not I'm not there there.
Speaker 2: I think I would shift towards you if you could
sell me on the idea that he can't be a
compliment because of how unique his skill set is. And
like this year, I think he's in like the eightieth
percentile of roll Rollman possessions, but Rollman like possessions per
seventy five possessions, that is the highest I would say,
if it's not of his.
Speaker 1: Career, it's pretty close to it. Maybe when he beat Ga.
Speaker 2: Big that's is any Zion William sample size big.
Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of the issue, right.
Speaker 2: My point is he's never ranked that high, at least
independent of his rookie I would And then but like
if you actually look at the time he spends off
the ball, it's basically got progressively lower because you were
building in the image of him. I can go either
if you would have to sell me on do I
think he could be a really good off ball player
when he doesn't really have a jumper like it would
have to be catch an attack or like you said,
as a screener and like screen and rolling, because not
even like screening and popping, I'm open to like the
nuclear route. I think for me it would hinge a
lot on where the lottery odds are going and who
they think they could get for like at that if
it's Cooper Flag, then maybe you change the entire thing.
This all is around about way of saying, Trey Murphy's
been great. If he doesn't miss another game, he might
win Most Improved Player. He can miss one more game
and be eligible for it. I think Norman Powell's primary
competition right now, what's the vibe check on New Orleans
is do we call it a rebuild?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 3: I I'm gonna so, I'm gonna give that like a
four point what four point nine? No, that's too high.
Four point two. That's about the amount of games that
Sion averages per year, right, that's.
Speaker 1: Oh what my dog Waite.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard of me. He was
not happy with that, he bard, I know he won't
accept it.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 2: Look, I think that might even be too generous at
this point. I so it's not even I'm confused because
I don't know necessarily know what the right answer is,
even though I think what you mapped out earlier is
it's the it's the most optimal answer, but who knows
is it's the actually correct one. I'm like at a
two point four, like it's just if you could tell
me that Zion is just gonna play in sixty games,
and like they're gonna have this topic and you have
Trey Murphy and Herb Jones is gonna stay healthy, Like yeah,
I'll go up way higher. But like the Zion of
it all, and like the comp locations that arise with
de Jenttey Murray injury, it's tough. So I went to four.
You went what four point two? While being a jerk
about Zion's.
Speaker 3: Availability, I was, I very much was. Yes, that's also
why the Bulls were getting straight for him this this summer. Poor.
Speaker 2: I don't wish the Bulls on any player, so I
hope that doesn't happen for Zion's sake.
Speaker 1: Rod to the.
Speaker 2: Portland Trailblazers, mort I feel about that. WHOA what was
that sounds?
Speaker 3: That sound? Was? I prefer talking about them more than
the Pelicans. But I am still a little I'm a
little I'm a little worried there still. I mean, look,
I'm also I'm weirded out Dan they still have Jeremy
Grant on the roster.
Speaker 2: I why that is though, right, you saw what I
don't know if they were ready or Joe Cronin was
ready to eat the level of shit you saw Kyle Kuzma,
I like what was like, Jeremy Grant was gonna.
Speaker 1: Go for less on that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: That is fair? Even so, it it just clocks a
lot of minutes. I'm not sure what the plan about
DeAndre eight there is.
Speaker 2: I just know the plan is if you can't move
him as an expiring I mean, I guess your point
is he's playing too much for your taste.
Speaker 3: I actually like him. I think he's lately, yeah, he has,
and it's the second half of the season, so it's
about that time. No, I actually like Aid and I
think he's I think he's become underrated. I just don't
understand what they're trying to do. I like, yeah, they're
trying to rebuild, but I think you know what it is.
I feel it's a bit of a half hearted effort
from them. I think that's the best way to phrase it.
Speaker 2: I that's probably I'm gonna use my trademark phrase of
this serious podcast. That's probably fair. I think injuries have
worked a lot of issues out for them, Like DeAndre As,
an example, is gonna miss I don't think he's gonna
be back before March with the capstrain or whatever he's
dealing with. I I do feel like they've maybe operated
with not an enough urgency to lean far enough into
the rebuild. But maybe they might know something that we
don't in the sense of the way that Scoot Henderson
has come on as his role is that like every
part of Scoot Henderson's game is just better this year,
the three point shooting, the finishing, like the just the
getting downhill, the playmaking, the defense. Even their biggest fault
would be can you guarantee that Scoot should be the
face of the future? Can you guarantee that about Shade
and Sharp? Can you guarantee that about Donovan Klington. I
just don't think he's the type of player you try
to build around.
Speaker 3: In that Van Wow, I'm surprised that you, of all people,
did not include Toomani Kamara in that.
Speaker 2: He's but He's another nice find, which, by the way,
injuries probably helped pave the way for like initially from
last season.
Speaker 3: I know, but you have a serious heart on for
that guy. The houris I was just I was I
was just weirded out by how you did not use
him as like potentially a franchise savior, like I thought
for sure you'd get there.
Speaker 2: I look, this is maybe a bias that I would
need to look beyond. But don't you tend if we're
gonna throw around and not. I know, you were like
trying to be an asshole and successfully a nice job,
but like, don't you look at franchise primary franchise building
box as someone who needs to sort of initiate the
offense or they're gonna need to be the number two
option while being the best defender. I don't think he's
ever gonna be that on offense.
Speaker 3: I was being an asshole, and that was very much intentional.
That's also the thing with the Blazers to me, because
I agree with you on Scoot that he's so much
better this year. And I'm also not out on anyone
who's just twenty one years old. That said, I think
it's perfectly reasonable to still have doubts in regards to
him being your quote unquote you know, top to your guy.
Speaker 2: Oh, I have a question I'm gonna answer us Scoot
Henderson and LaMelo ball mort Who do you trust more?
Speaker 3: Well? I mean on that note, I do trust LaMelo more.
Speaker 1: I gotta admit, Wow, we found the bar brand just
like that.
Speaker 3: I will say this just just because you're making fun
of me, but like a healthy or sorry, a healthy
Lonso like before the trade have him like tears above
LaMelo not even funny? All right?
Speaker 1: Back to the Blazers though, what were you saying, we're
never gonna create it's it's it's a whole thing, all right,
you're you're right.
Speaker 3: The primary guy has to be someone who can orchestrate
like the entire offense, who can like do everything. I
think it's perfectly fair to to raise those questions about Scoot.
I also think it's fair to raise the same question
about Shade and Sharp, just in terms like he's good
but and and like I get that he's also very young,
but the efficiency is up and down. I think he's
been staple in terms of like his total productivity, but
I am missing something from him in terms of like
the year to year growth where I'm like, oh, yeah,
I'm seeing this, I'm seeing the understanding of taking and
making better shots, Like I'm seeing a drastically altered three
point release. I'm seeing not going to release. His release
is actually pretty good. It's just doesn't go in enough
for my taste. Him getting to the line more something substantial,
and I haven't seen that yet. That's not to say
it won't come. But we're also inching closer to two
hundred career games for.
Speaker 1: Him, so eligible this summer too.
Speaker 3: That too, So like, I'm just confused about this team.
I'm not sure which direction they're really going in. Seems
like they're all over the place, and I just what
I hope for them is that everything makes sense this summer.
I hope they go into the twenty five offseason and
just say, all right, let's Leu's actually streamline the living
fuck out of this.
Speaker 2: There is something that feels by the way, I agree
with everything you said on Shade and sharp. I am
convinced though when you watch his three pointers, I just
think he's going to be like a thirty nine percent
three point shoot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am, so I'm not seeing it. So worthy
the stuff.
Speaker 1: I worry about him more defensively.
Speaker 2: I don't think he really has a super high ceiling
as a playmaker, and I want to see like he
can generate real space when he goes to create shots.
You want to see those shots go in more often. Though,
I'm also a big and I this is me eating Crow.
I was not high on Donovan Clinging coming out of
the draft. He's just I've said this, He's enormous and
he knows how to use it. He's going to be
a super valuable room protector, and as someone who like
can set screens and finish, I think he's going to
be fine there. There is something scattershot to their rebuild,
and it dates back to the off season with the
Danniafia trade of that is not a move a franchise
in their position probably should have made, even though Dennyavia
has now been really good for them. The scatter shot ness,
though at least right now, is part of their intrigue
for me, because it would be different if they were
winning too much by the standards of people who want
them to thank by like we're running the offense through
DeAndre and Jeremy Grant and Scoot doesn't have a ton
of on ball usage, but they're not like they're winning
a lot, primarily because of the guys that you would
think are still gonna be here now. I what are
they missing in the fact that we still have questions
where I'm trying like a team, you want that, even
if you're not good, you want that, like in Toronto's
case as an instance, I think Scotty Barnes has become
like a pretty divisive figure around the league. But like
the Raptors can just say, like, no, that's our guy,
and Detroit until this season, that's our guy, the Blazers
just aren't there yet with Scoot.
Speaker 1: It's a sample size, it's a good sample size thing.
Speaker 2: But I also think that that might, like the the
open endedness here, I don't think it works against them
as much as it might work against a team like Brooklyn.
Let's say, like we appreciate their flexibility moving forward and
they're starting from square one. I think that the Blazers
could have operated more urgently like a rebuilding team. But
I also think that right now they just have so
much depth and so many outs, even though they're not
necessarily dealing with a ton of extra picks. Or even
not a ton of financial flexibility moving forward, I would be.
I think the way what you said about the off
season is really smart where there needs to be probably
some material shift with the number of just positional gluts
that exist right now to where Chauncey Billups, whoever's coaching
this team is attempted to indulge having to play these
veterans too much. But I think that the fact that
they've gotten here as we're recording this on February the seventeenth,
like it's they've really kind of just the word's not reinvented,
but they've definitely definitely like freshened up their long term
outlook from my vantage point.
Speaker 3: Right, what's wild is they only have one guy above
the age of thirty in their rotation, and he's like
only thirty, Like if that's Jeremy Grant. It's not even
that they're an old team. It's just that some of
their guys, as you said, veterans, that they're young veterans. Yes,
but we also kind of know who they are now,
Like we know what their ceiling is, We know that
ceiling is not necessarily high enough. Like I mean, look,
I'm open to being wrong but I don't think next
year DeAndre Aiden is gonna come in and suddenly, you know,
live up to number one status and become like the
new David Robinson. I just don't think that's in the cards.
If he does, suddenly a solution has fallen from the
heavens towards them. This is a seam that I would
rank very highly in most need if we were to
rank it like that of winning the freaking lottery.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I could see.
Speaker 2: I mean, so you think there's a risk that they
come let's say DeAndre and still on the roster, that
they come in still viewing him as a core part
of what they're trying to do, rather than is Donovan
cling in someone who can play a boatload of more minutes.
Speaker 3: I mean, we haven't seen them not act like it.
So I mean, and I'm not necessarily proposing that da
needs to be traded or anything saying that, I want
to understand what the plan is. I want to understand
what the long term outlook is here for him, for
Anthony Simons, for Jeremy Grant, Like there are just players
on this roster where I'm like, why are you here?
Like I'm trying to understand why you are on this
roster at this specific point in time. Not that they're
bad players, not that they don't deserve in him being
a contract, That's not what I'm saying, but like you
don't make sense in this current iteration of the roster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I think every Simons though,
is the one where I look at it. Just the
gravity he has as a shooter is something they don't get.
Is there anyone else that provides that right now?
Speaker 3: No? No, No, I'm just mentioning him because he is
often in rumors right like he's constantly being you know,
traded to the Orlando Magic or somewhere, and like.
Speaker 2: It just feels like Kitch even want Did you see
that use of Nurkic even wants him in Orlando?
Speaker 1: Use of Jerkis knows Ball?
Speaker 3: Oh nice, I didn't see that. Yeah, I mean it's
not a bad chat. Out of course, I'm all mostly
be like, what you don't play defense to my expectation, you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have Simon is still gonna be behind Tristan to
Silva in the rotation.
Speaker 3: You're gonna place Reach Shepherd minutes with me? No, it's
it's just a weird, weird roster at this point, Like,
I think that they need to come into the season,
sorry the offseason and just you have a planet hand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with all that.
Speaker 2: I guess I just feel so much better about where
they are Slash headed, because the fire alarms for me
were at least going off with Scoot after last year,
and then the way this season started, and just even
kind of the way they brought him along. It's all
kind of been weird. But I look at the the
way that he's been able to work. I mean, the
shooting is a big deal for sure, but the way
he's been able to work on the ball as a pastor,
as a creator, I think there's a there's just I know,
you're saying that they might need to win lottery more
than a lot of teams. Rather we're gonna discuss I
actually think that. So you think it's more let's i'll
phrase it this way. You think it's more likely then
we're about to talk about the Jazz. We already talked
about Washington using those two teams a sort of base one.
You think it's more, You think it's more likely that
they already have their primary building block of the future
in place than Portland.
Speaker 3: Is that what you're No, I'm saying that the current
number one projected guys on those teams are you know,
more for the Jazz marketing and for the Wizards. It's
cud to believe. For me, I'm saying they're further ahead
of Scoot currently.
Speaker 2: Interesting the Scoot versus Kolabali slash Sar.
Speaker 3: That's an interesting that's a debate at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: I mean, Larry market is just I guess I didn't
even factor him in because I'm just that dude is
going to be I would soon be traded at some point, so.
Speaker 3: He's not still And that's why I'm like, yeah, because
you're right without marketing, Yes, it's it's the Jazz, but
like it's or it's not necessarily. I just said that
the Blacier's rank high on this list, like it's it's
a team that needs something to happen, probably outside out
of their control.
Speaker 2: Last question is why doesn't Rupaer get more minutes? Like
is that the fatal flaw of Portland structure?
Speaker 3: I would argue, good question. I have a question too,
why hasn't Delano Banton scored fifty five in a game.
Speaker 1: Because you have really bad basketball takes.
Speaker 3: He was part off a fifty five pointers the other day.
Speaker 1: Just keep moving the goalposts.
Speaker 3: Mort I am, I am, I absolutely am. I'm gonna
take partial critic, all right.
Speaker 1: Vibe check then scale of one to ten on Portland's rebuild.
Speaker 3: Uh five point five point five for the upcoming fifty
five point game from Delano Banton, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: Six point seven and a lot of the same questions
you do. I guess I just don't view him as
grave as you do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I'm I'm a dramatic son of a bitch.
Speaker 2: You did message me while we're recording this and call
me an asshole, So yes, yes you are. Next team
San Antonio Spurs. They're in a pretty bad position. I
would argue horrible, Yeah, horrible, But in all seriousness, what
I mean this team is they're rebuilding still. They did
trade for dearon Fox, but this is they Steph Castle
is a big part of their plan. Victor women Yama's
only playing on the second year. How do you feel
about the team that might just have one of the
greatest players of all time developing on their roster?
Speaker 3: More pretty low yeah, I'm okay ish on them. You know,
I think they might be able to figure it out
come next year, two years away, five years away. Maybe.
Now this this this team is ridiculous. Uh here's the
thing though, Like they were, they were walking around in
a very weird like soup of mediocrity for a while
and then they locked out with Wempy. But I got
to give them credit because what they've done since the
Wempy draft has been right on the money. They've they've
approached with a great level of patience despite the fact
that Wempy is ready right now. I mean, that's ridiculous,
but like that's he is at the age of twenty one.
But they didn't they didn't overpay when as soon as
they heard Taron Fox was available and wanted to go there.
They didn't just salvlate and we're like, oh, we're like,
we're gonna give up the farm to get to Aaron
Fox in here. No, they didn't even give up Stefan Castle.
They didn't even give up the Atlanta pick. They look
that was that was a master stroke of a deal,
and it allows them even then out in the chance
that Fox doesn't work out for him. So It's like,
I'm just crazy about how their approach has been since
they got Wemby and going into last offseason, and it
seems like they're again going to arm themselves with patients
going into this offseason, where again they might have back
to back rookie of the years. By the way, Stefan
Castle is just ridiculously good.
Speaker 2: Did you see that kohlil Ware's favor to win it
right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I saw that was a little weird, right.
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 2: I think it speaks to just how all over the
place the rookie class has been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm on Castle myself, but like it's
I just the vibes are good. I think they lined
themselves up the best way they can. I don't necessarily
think Calton Johnson's gonna be on the roster going into
the next season. I think he's gonna be like a
an offseason trade. They don't have any bad deals on
their books. It I just think this works, And like
I understand that they're twenty three and twenty nine, so
it works. Is like more seen through the lens of
rebuilding than it is you know, immediate results. But no,
I I've been very impressive what they've done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that I have anything to add
the fact that you just have wembying there. I think
I'm going to be fascinated to see how I fit
on fhone between what I would argue are their foremost
important players right now d Aaron Fox, Wemby, Devin Vessel,
and Steph Castle. But like the things that we've even seen,
like Steph Castle as a screener this year, and even
if you want to throw Jeremy Sohn in there, you can
get a little clunky, but you can stager your lineups.
I am what do you think is going to be
so like after this year? Like, yeah, their record it
has not been great. They're six games under five hundred.
Is you already noted? And like they've been through like
they were it was, oh could they make the playoffs?
And that's oh they've lost thirteen of their last nineteen
or twenty games or whatever. Is the defense has not
been good during that stretch. What is like, when does
it become more urgent for them to be a lot
better than they are right now? Is it after this summer?
Two years, two years, even after the d Aaron Fox trade?
Speaker 3: You don't think no. I mean, obviously more expectations. But
I'm like, if you're asking me, maybe I misinterpreted your question,
because if you're asking me when they should go for it,
I'm gonna say two years, like just go for the
whole shipping.
Speaker 2: Which is yeah, I don't they have so much time
because of the way that it's gonna work out with
Wenby's contract. I just you've already made it was a
good trade value wise, but you did already. You got
the Aaron Fox. You're probably going to pay Daron Fox.
I'm wondering if that insights any more sort of urgency
to not I'm not expecting the turnaround and trade a
bunch of first for someone to go after. Although they
were mentioned in the report they might be a team
interested in Kevin Rant this summer. I'm not even advocating
for that. I guess I'm just wondering, at what point
is it all right we need to see more of
not just oh, look at all these cool individual players
we have and what the fit should be, but they
should be a team that is vying for top six,
top seven or eight in the West. Is that because
they made the Daron Fox trade, that that probably needs
to happen next season, or is it because of what
they paid to get the Aaron Fox specifically, that's not
even really that big of like I was.
Speaker 3: About to say, bargain, I mean, yeah, and I think
that's just a fourth some time. I mean, I don't
have like a specific timeframe on it the resent. I'm
what I'm mentioning two years for a recent here, and
I because you have Stefan Castle, who obviously is a
big piece of the future, I think we need to
give him also another year because to you know, second
year guys still tend to not necessarily be ready. So
they also have presumably a high pick coming in this year,
maybe even two, depending on what happens with Atlanta. Are
they going to shop those picks for a star. If
they are, I'm gonna accelerate that timeline. If they're not,
and they're gonna make two draft choices, both of which
may be in the lottery, I'm going to add that
second year to also let them get acclimated to the
whole thing. So it's I think they're just being patient.
I know, wempy as competitive as hell. I think they've
actually towed that balance pretty well. In basically, you know,
giving him Chris Paul, maintaining veterans on the team, such
as you know they traded for Harrison Barnes. They could
have moved off of him again if they wanted to.
They didn't they wanted another veteran in there. I think
they've done very well in showcasing to Nbay. Look, we
are definitely going to go for this this thing, but
we're gonna do it in the right pace, the right pace,
with the right patients, with the right moves. We're not
going to panic like the darn Fox trade. Yes, step
in the right direction, step in in terms of like competitiveness,
they're immediately more competitive, but I still think they're two
years away from being, you know, the team we're talking
about dethroning the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Speaker 2: What do you view as sort of the missing archetype
that you would be priority. It doesn't have to be
an all in trade, whether it's through the draft or trade,
free agency, whatever is just this would be a really
great additive for the core right now wing.
Speaker 3: Like there is a reason I brought up both biloculably
and uh Amen Thompson, Like either one of those guys
would be a fantastic, fantastic addition. I don't think it's
particularly realistic. On less, of course, the Spurs win the
freaking lottery and could be open to shopping that. And again,
I think it's a fair point that you raced earlier,
like with the Rockets, even take on like the number
one pick for Avin Thompson, that's that's a debate. If
nothing else, but that type of wing, like the ultra
disruptive defensive wing who is overly athletic, would be so
much fun to see defensively on this team. Now, you
raised a legitimate concern about shooting, because you're right, Castle
so far not a great long range shooter, am and
Thompson so far not along great long range shooter. Hell
with regard to like the Spurs, No, but I still,
I mean, there are a lot of players right now
that are wings that are great defenders who may not
necessarily be long range shooters, and I think the Spurs
need something particular. A friend of mine earlier today during
the Danish podcast, we were talking about the draft and
we're talking about Castle and the Spurs and whatnot, and
he and I kind of like reached the conclusion of
Ace Bailey might actually be the most intriguing draft selection
for the Spurs if he gets there, because having a
guy who's like six ' ten, even though he's not
necessarily wired as defensively as a lot of guys, the
offensive upside of just having a guy who can get
you buggets to like a free upp A we Beat
to free Ubba Castle to free up a lot of
these other guys would be super interesting. So when you
ask me about an archetype, I don't have one like specific,
but I do think wing, big, wing.
Speaker 2: I think almost sort of just like an upgrade if
it's even possible. I'm like Julian champagnee or even that.
Speaker 3: Is not possible, but like that's what we're achieving hoping
to achieve.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so vibe check on this team. And I think,
by the way, I do like what you said. The
cadence at which they are handling the speed of his
rebuild feels perfect where they're being opportunistic rather then like
super overreactive or even super proactive.
Speaker 3: Ten can I go higher?
Speaker 1: I mean you went lower at one point for the Bulls,
so you might as well.
Speaker 3: All right then fine? Fifteen twenty twenty five Fordy thirty five.
I don't care.
Speaker 2: I will adhere to the laws of the mathematical scale
on which we're grading, and I will say ten as well.
It's just I mean, you have Wemby and all these
just assets, and I don't know what more you're gonna
want from this team, our final team in the Western Conference.
Speaker 1: More is the Utah Jazz. What is what up with that?
Speaker 3: It's a good ask question. Jeez, I have no ideah.
I like, they have Lauri Markinen, they have John Collins,
they have Colin Sexton. Those are the three highest paid players.
I'm unsure whether they should be members of the Jazz
moving forward. Jordan Clarkson should not. It's signed to pivot
off of him. But the thing is, if they pivot
off those, I just have no freaking clue as to
who will pick up the mantle and say, hey, I'm
the best player on this team. Is that Cody Williams?
Is that Tailor Hendricks? Probably not? By the way, Hendricks
is up of the year right now that I'm in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he hasn't played. He only played like, was it
nine games or something.
Speaker 2: He's although if you ask me which young player on
this team that I'm high as not it might still
be him. I was pretty pretty high on Taylor Hendricks
and I remain high on him, so hopefully he's.
Speaker 3: Oh, you were higher on Cody Williams though I was.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie so well, I'm adjusting my priors
for a twenty year.
Speaker 1: Old Shepherd's gonna be a bust.
Speaker 3: Like it's just but but like it's like, I don't know,
I just Bryce sense a Back is a guy I
really like. But I'm also one of the I'm a
sucker for guys who could just go get buckets, like
you know, Kim with more Bryce sense of box types,
those like I will always take a guy like that
on my team who just looks at that basket and
it's basically thinking, yeah, I'm gonna fuck that thing tonight
and just does it like That's unique guys like that,
unique guys who are just like I am going to
give you so many points you can't count to it.
The thing is, though I say a call you like,
he's played great, do I trust him?
Speaker 2: Well? Great, he's fantastic passer, can have some incredible finishes
at the rim.
Speaker 1: There's just the peaks and valleys for him.
Speaker 3: Incredibly correct so I don't I don't trust him. I
will say so kyance kiance George last year, I was
really impressed with the way he came into the league.
He came in as a shooting guard on the fly,
I had to become a point guard. It feels like
he's doing that pretty well. The efficiency has not kept up.
He's still highly highly inefficient. Turnovers are still a bit
of a problem, but something I'm willing to live with.
I don't know what the upside is there, Like is
he a good stats, bad team type of guy. Is
he more influential. I think we need see that before
we can really get a handle of it. I just
have no freaking clue where this team is going. I mean,
they have assets, they.
Speaker 2: Have assets, and they're gonna have a ton of flexibility.
But to your point about they don't have the guy
that you're looking at that prospect and saying this is
who we're trying to rebuild around. And I don't know,
of all the players on their roster you can pick
out who you might think is the best answer. I
don't know if those answers are good enough qualitatively to
make you feel good about their direction. And that's Kante
George is someone the aesthetics of his game just are
not lining up with the efficiency for the most part.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you there, and like next year is
probably when you start to worry about that.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to feel about Isaiah Collier is
just okay as a finisher, a playmaker. I don't know
I feel about him as shooter moving forward, Walker Kessler.
I think we know what Walker Kesler's going to be.
He's going to be really good at it. That's not
someone who you're structuring your entire future around.
Speaker 1: I love Calor Hendricks. He did improve. How is that
player either?
Speaker 2: He would need to be the Jaron Jackson junior that
we're seeing right now in Memphis, Like that would be
the type of player he would have to become. And
I think they're saving grace Is and it took them,
you know, maybe they didn't read the room quickly enough.
Speaker 1: They are probably going to.
Speaker 2: Have top four lottery odds this year, and so I
think the answer is they've yet to get their primary
prospect of the future. And is that uncomfortable because they
are in year three of the rebuild?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: Is that, like, how do you look at that as
a function of the rebuild. Is it a failure?
Speaker 3: No, I don't want to say failure, because like, let's
say they get Cooper Flag, and Cooper Flags becomes this,
you know, the superstar that we think he can be.
Can you then at any point during that process call
it a failure. I don't think so, because that's just
that's just the bricks. I will say their process has
been weird. I think you should pivot off marketing earlier,
especially before they gave him this contract. That is what
it is. I'm still a little weirded out by how
they still have John Collins round. I'm guessing the market
just wasn't there, which is fair enough. Colin Sexton again
is a guy who I think should have had a
stronger market than the deadline. I don't know why teams
are so I don't know Colin Sexton rejective. That just
doesn't make sense to me. Anythink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you were the Jazz looking at how
many future first you have, you're just getting a first
round pick from a contender, you could just say, well,
why do we don't even have someone necessarily we trusted
the offense, whether it's Collier or Keante George or Clarkson.
So I could see them looking at it that way too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a fair approach. Maybe this is just
the year that splits, you know, the the currents from
the future, right, I mean the present from the future,
where they're basically saying, look, let's just keep our heads
over water going into twenty twenty five. We'll have a
high ass draft pick if we win that thing and
we get Flag. Yeah, everything else is like we're rebuilding
around him and everything is fair game after that.
Speaker 2: It's so tough to talk about where they're headed because
where they are right now doesn't inform that it feels like.
And I think maybe aside from Brooklyn, just because they
don't have anybody right like Utah, probably of all the
rebuilding teams we've now talked about, which we are listened
up being at nine or ten teams, five in the West,
I think six in the whatever it is, ten or
eleven teams, Utah probably has more riding on this draft
than any rebuilding team that's not Brooklyn, right, Yeah, I
think so, unless you think it's New Orleans, I think
you can maybe make that case for them. It's not Houston,
it's not No no, No, they're so assets draped like
can't be the Pelicans either, because they do have guys.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is this.
Speaker 1: Is a fair question throw marketing out.
Speaker 2: Because he's just I don't know that you've even if
you view him as a keeper, he's probably someone you
want to be the number two or number three on
a contender. Are any of their young like you feel
as good about any of their young guys moving forward
as Trey Murphy? No, I I'm probably with you. I
don't know, Like, I just don't even know who you
would make the case for. It probably be Walker Kesler,
which that and finally that comes back to this with
the I I still really like, but I think it's
just I'm I'm I'm looking too much at the highest
hies with the eye test with Kiante, and I probably
need to separate that. I'm still like kind of in
on Keyante George as maybe that best possibility, and I
you know, I can't quit Taylor Hendrix, Cody Cody Williams
has done his darnedest to uh make my support waiver,
But they need to indiscriminately sort of approach like the Rebil.
It's it doesn't matter which position anyone plays that you
don't have anyone good enough on the roster to plan
around that where it's, oh, we don't want this center
because we have Walker Kesler, or we don't want this
guy because we have Lowry Marketing or Kiante George. You're
you're certainly not in a position to think that way, right,
Which is what.
Speaker 1: Would be the vibe check on this?
Speaker 2: It feels they're just the most incomplete and could be
the quickest because they have Look, I do like some
of their young players. I just don't like the highest
end outcome of those players doesn't feel like cornerstone material.
Speaker 1: And so what is the vibe check?
Speaker 3: Vibe check? I don't know, man, I'll I might have
to ask Kyle Philipowski's babysitter.
Speaker 1: Ano. They're intriguing, like sort of younger player.
Speaker 2: Though when you look at the front court, Like if
you had to say, where do they have the most
intriguing talent? Just because John Collins is there, and Walker
Kessler's there, and Philip is there and market is there,
it's the front court.
Speaker 3: It is. He's very perfectly fine. I don't think you
know that he has that type of of you know,
upside as a Trey Murphy for example, when in correlation
to the question you asked me intriguing, sure, I'm just
not that particularly high one.
Speaker 1: I was just saying, yeah, I have players to.
Speaker 3: Certainly sure, just.
Speaker 2: Maybe not love would be the and But what I
do want to take into account with my vibe check
is they have all these assets. And I know that
none of us are probably thrilled with how the front
office has handled the rebuild. But look at how it started.
It came at a It wasn't at a no brainer
time necessarily like it came with time Laughtonoma Mitchell's contract.
So I do still have a level of trust in
Xanak and age too. They will make some tough or
nuclear decisions if and when the time presents itself to be.
And I think when you combine that with assets and flexibility, Okay,
what's in place right may not be permanent or definitive,
but I'm not ready to say this team is Chicago
Bulls East.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no. And I'm not there either. Like the
managerial staff, there is one that I trust. What I'm like,
the only thing I'm just looking at right now is
you know that that line between the vets and the kids.
And I'm just I'm seeing such a drop off between
like the current vets in place and the young guys
currently on the roster. I'm just like, I'm not impressed.
I'm not impressed whatsoever there is, Like there's not one
of these guys, you know, under the age of what
twenty five where I'm like, oh, oh yeah, this is
just like a keeper, like any means necessary, Like every
single one of those guys I'm putting in trades. And
I'm not talking about like I need to get Luca back,
I need to get wem Be back, I need to
get Giannis back.
Speaker 2: No, I'm you don't think there's to that point though,
you don't think there is a chance. I'm genuinely asking,
I haven't even thought about this, and you just mentioned
it that they go the inorganic route, and it's just
we're going to try to get another star via trade
and pair him with lowry market, and like that's how
we're gonna rebuild this thing.
Speaker 3: If so, then they won't even qualify as as rebuilders.
And we need to basically delete them out of this
entire episode.
Speaker 2: Why that's a form of rebuilding, It's it's a form
not recommending it, but they have enough pick if they
just fine fine created for LaMelo Ball and they decided
this is that we're gonna we have this pick, we're
gonna use it, we have Larry marketing, and then we're
giving up everything else.
Speaker 3: I concede that I can sde that. The thing is
because when I think of a player that age like
twenty seven to twenty eight and you twenty seven to
twenty eight and you're building around him or adding to him,
I'm thinking retool, Like rebuild for me is like draft.
That's like that's the word I have associated with that.
But I buy your definition.
Speaker 1: I don't expect them to do that.
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if it gets to a point where
they feel because again this is year three. I think
there are certain franchises and we'll have to see if
they're one of them, because I do feel like Portland
has reacted a little bit that way, where like they're
kind of feeling the pressure to make win loss progress,
and I'm curious when or if Utah reaches that point.
Speaker 3: Should be soon, I mean in terms of like trying
to figure stuff out, because they have some guys who
will be up for extension after next season as well.
So like I'm not saying the clock is ticking because
that's a little aggressive, but it's also not.
Speaker 2: I think Johnny Juzang is the future and that they
need to accept as much and move forward from there.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna make another Kyle Philipowski joke vibe.
Speaker 2: Check one to ten for the Jazz rebuild?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is that? I mean, if you're going to
mark in the route, Honestly, I'm probably giving them a
little bit higher vibe check because that's that would at
least be something where you catapult them into relevance immediately,
and that would be fun. But since we're looking at
this from a rebuilding lens, I don't know, like four point.
Speaker 2: Five that feels right, I'll go four point five five area.
Just Yeah, they have all these different avenues open to them,
and it's easier for them to access them.
Speaker 1: Because if you're gonna say, well, why do you feel.
Speaker 2: Worse about the Pelicans as an example, Yeah, the zion
of it all like complicates it in a way that
Utah at least doesn't have to deal with. Like I'm
not saying Zi is umovable or anything, but he is
such a you are punting on someone if you want
to go to the nuclear route that has the type
of upside that would headline your franchise. The Jazz don't
need to worry about like that element of it, Like
they can do anything and they have the assets and
the flexibility and this year the draft that like where
they'll be in the draft to do anything, and so
there's I don't think that's the spot you want to
be in, which is why four and a half might
feel right after you know, two and a half three
seasons of rebuilding. But it's not damning for them, Like
this is not Chicago. I think New Orleans is in
a tougher spot as example.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I will say they're in trouble if they
have a high draft pick this year and that person busts,
then we have a situation.
Speaker 1: I think that's what And by the way, that's maybe
why you.
Speaker 2: Could argue that they have more riding on this draft
than even the Nets, because one it is like the
Nets first bite it it's if they missed, they could say, well,
we have next year and we were in this really
tough place. But if you're the Jazz, it's, oh, we
haven't capslock hit on anybody through these multiple drafts, so
you can maybe even make the case that more than
any rebuilding team, they're under the most pressure entering this
year's draft. Yeah.
Speaker 1: More.
Speaker 2: Do you have any other rebuilding thoughts that you'd like
to get off your chest before.
Speaker 3: We get No, not right now. We just went through
both the East and the West. We went through a
ton of teams, so I think I got most of
it off my chest, honestly.
Speaker 1: But not your shirt, and we're all very disappointed by that.
Speaker 3: I know, I'm sorry. Next look, when when we're done recording,
I'll I'll take it off for you as per usual.
Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Can you tell our listeners where they can find you
and all the fantastic work that you do, and maybe
where they can even get some fresh to death pre
prepared meals?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, And it's not even like pre prepared. It
just it comes in the box like and like, and
then you have to prepare it yourself. But it's quick
and it's easy, and it comes from Hello Fresh, and
you can use my code which works globally. I've found
out if you go to hell plastically too, maybe even intergalactically.
I can't even like I can't rule that out. Hello
fresh dot com, slash buzzer beater and then use my
promo code busser beater in one word. That will give
you a ton of percentage of off. I believe it
will even entitle you to like a free to sert
for a couple of months as well. There's there's some
goodies in there. Go check it out. As for you
can where you can find my work, you can find
it over at Yahoo Sports, over at Forbes, you can
find my podcast and on the NBA podcast. If you
speak Danish, I also have a podcast called buzzer Beater,
which if you connect the dots, that's where I have
the partnership from Danish.
Speaker 2: Word of the podcast for me, So I know Nyla
sucks nail clippers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know cas Geitt. That's cap Oh.
Speaker 3: That's really good. Nice love it.
Speaker 2: And the one that I'm always solo play.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not gonna adopt. That's gonna be the one
that messes me up means sunglass.
Speaker 3: It really is, it really is. But see now, now
I got a good one for you because you are
a dog lover. So let's let's figure out what the
word dog is in Danish who who who?
Speaker 1: Hunt? Is there is there like an nd T sound
in there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an n it's actually h u n d
but the D is like not really like pronounced.
Speaker 1: So hunt hunt hun.
Speaker 3: Yep, yes, sir who that that's a good one.
Speaker 1: That one.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm gonna struggle because I'm gonna want
to put like a D or a T at the
end of it.
Speaker 3: I know that that is. That is and it's one
of those words that really trip Americans up because of
the D.
Speaker 1: What's the what's the plurality version of it?
Speaker 3: Hun?
Speaker 1: Hu Hunah?
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: I have three honah, I have three dogs.
Speaker 3: That is. That was very See that was actually easier
for you. That's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one that I still has been the easiest for
me is nyla sucks.
Speaker 3: And that's weird because that was the one I thought
for sure you'd get tripped up on with, like, yeah,
that's that's amazing. You're doing pretty well.
Speaker 2: Until next time, and as always, we thank more for
giving us another Danish lesson.
Speaker 1: We hope you're following along.
Speaker 2: I've learned all these words right along with me, and
we of course have to shout out the one the only,
the rebuilding antidote to what's happening everywhere, if and when
he returns to the NBA, mister Frank Elast