WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.879 So we should have more people in society. 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.199 Sure, I don't know if this is connected to birth right. 3 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.800 Well, yeah, because the more people in society would would 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.599 then back up what you're arguing, right, I don't don't 5 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:15.880 we need more husbands and wives to have more people? 6 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.920 Yeah, I just don't think these things are mutually exclusive. 7 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.760 How can a wife be a CEO and also raise 8 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:22.320 the kids? 9 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:24.800 Tampon's birth control? 10 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.480 Like tampons and birth control raise the kids? What do 11 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:27.800 you mean? 12 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:30.960 Lots of lots of women find a way to both 13 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.799 raise children and work well. The shared parenting like the 14 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:38.520 husband takes roles. Sometimes they get babysitters, Sometimes there's intergenerational families. 15 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:42.079 There's multiple ways that women share the load of parenting. 16 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:43.280 So that's a net good. 17 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.719 It can be a okay for the opportunities. 18 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:47.200 As the standard for good? 19 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.840 Here do you mean, like like at an epistemic level, 20 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.479 at any level good. 21 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:56.719 As in in your worldview, what determines the good? 22 00:00:57.119 --> 00:00:59.560 So in the in the case of what we're talking about, 23 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:01.640 I talk with the innovator scale. So the reason I 24 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.760 like women being able to have access to opportunity is 25 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:06.120 because it improves GDP. 26 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:09.040 Okay, So the net good for society? Is just what 27 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:12.319 more fiat money? Like? What what determines that GDP is 28 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:12.680 a good thing? 29 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:15.239 Do you disagree? 30 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.159 Yeah? I do? You don't think, first of all, like 31 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.439 what if the money is a scam. 32 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.400 That doesn't have anything to do with GDP, why would 33 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.920 not having more GDP for a country not be. 34 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.599 Good the nature of the money itself, if the money 35 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.599 system is a debt based scam, doesn't have anything to 36 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:32.719 do with GDP, not. 37 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.640 Really, because GDP is about like the income of a country, right, 38 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:38.959 So like debt is debt is part of how you 39 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:40.560 navigate income of a country. 40 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.560 Right, But our country's income is presently based on pure debt. 41 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:47.319 Right is that a bad thing? 42 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:49.200 Our GDP is not based on debt. 43 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:51.719 It is, well, the whole the whole system is based 44 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:54.519 on debt. Gross domestic product is not itself debt. I'm 45 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:57.519 saying the economic system itself is based on debts. Yeah, 46 00:01:57.560 --> 00:01:59.359 like ab based system. 47 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.799 Yeah, theory of like money is very debt organized. It's 48 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:05.840 just like debt is not this like boogloo scary thing 49 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:06.640 in and of itself. 50 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:09.680 No, I'm talking about Our system is fiot. It's not 51 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:12.360 attached to anything hard. It's No, there's no hard currency 52 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:14.840 that our money is attached to since the shock doctrine 53 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:16.879 of Nixon, Right, So Nixon goes off the gold standard. 54 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.240 So we're now a debt based system. So I'm just 55 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.319 saying your highest quality was the best GDP in society. 56 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.479 So your organizing principle is a neoliberal economic theory. So 57 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.680 what I want to know is, even if that's itself 58 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.319 based on debt, then what's the source of the good here? 59 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:35.919 So in this case, what is good for society is 60 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:38.879 having a competitive GDP so that your enemies can't start. 61 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:39.800 That's the highest good. 62 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:41.639 That's not the highest good. That's the good of what 63 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.560 I'm talking about in the case of women entering in. 64 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:46.680 What is the highest good that determines that that's good? 65 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:48.520 Are you talking about moralities at all. 66 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.680 In your system? You tell me what your system's standard 67 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:51.199 of good is. 68 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:56.439 So I'm not really sure why we're having the epistemic conversation. 69 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:59.599 I went on because it feels like we're losing the 70 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:00.599 plot of the conversation. 71 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.360 No, I want to know what your standard of the 72 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:02.719 good is? 73 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:05.560 Again, what do you mean by good? 74 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:10.360 You said that the GDP is necessarily attached to the 75 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:11.039 highest good. 76 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:13.000 I didn't say highest good. I said it's a good thing. 77 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.439 Okay, Then I'm asking you what the highest good is 78 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:18.000 that determines that the GDP is better than not caring 79 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:19.439 about GDP I have. 80 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.599 So you're asking for my moral foundation theory. Sure, I'm 81 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:24.919 a divine and theorist. 82 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.599 From what divine command? 83 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:29.360 The Christian God. 84 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:32.319 And he says GDP is good? No, the Moses come down, and. 85 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:33.800 I don't think GDP is moral. 86 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:36.400 You just said it was the highest good. 87 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:37.800 I'd say it was the highest good. 88 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:38.439 This debate. 89 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:41.680 No, I said it's good for society. 90 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:43.560 Then it's moral. If it's good. 91 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:45.599 I don't think it's moral in this case. 92 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.319 If it's good, it's moral. 93 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.080 Well you can have good good Well, of course you 94 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.439 can have functional claims, right, So. 95 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.280 If it's only functional, or if it's only pragmatic, then 96 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:57.400 it's not ultimately a good. It's just subjective. 97 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:00.560 So at a functional level it is. I guess, do 98 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.080 you disagree with this idea that it's good for a 99 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.400 state to have competitive high GDP. 100 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.240 It could be, but I don't think it's the highest good. 101 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:09.719 And I have a standard of good. So I'm trying 102 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:10.680 to figure out what yours. 103 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.400 Is, Well, what's more important for a nation state than GDP. 104 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:15.479 The health of the society. 105 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:18.759 Sure, but if the health of society is really high, I. 106 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:20.279 Mean, could you have let me, let me give an example. 107 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.279 Could you have a society that's mass addicted to drugs 108 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:25.639 but has a good number of a nice income. 109 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:26.439 Probably not. 110 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:30.399 No, you can have societies that are full of detriment, 111 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.879 like full of ghettos, and they're ruled over by organized 112 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:36.279 crime that make a lot of money. 113 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.879 Typically those countries, like if you're thinking about like the 114 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.079 Congo or like areas that have like high levels of corruption, 115 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.800 their GDP is horrible because typically crime is not good. 116 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:46.360 But I'm saying you could conceivably have that. It doesn't 117 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.439 matter whether there's some exception to that rules. 118 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.160 So it's not exception that I would say. The rule 119 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:52.399 is in general, when you have lots of corruption and 120 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:54.240 drug addiction, it's not good for GDP. 121 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:58.439 But I'm saying, conceivably you could have a ruling elite 122 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:00.439 that makes a lot of money from draw and the 123 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.439 society itself is living in shantytown. Right. 124 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.800 I don't think that nation state would have HY I 125 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:07.759 don't think there's any evidence It doesn't matter. 126 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.000 If you think that, because it's conceivable that you could 127 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:13.160 have that right, you could have a successful oligarchy that 128 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.920 that makes a lot of money, and the people themselves 129 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:16.920 don't do very well. 130 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.600 You're talking about like Saudi Arabia. Yeah, sure, sure, but 131 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.000 Saudi Arabia again is not nearly as competitive as somewhere 132 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:24.199 like America or any more. 133 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.639 But again, how do we know that the competitiveness for 134 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:29.000 women is a good? You've just said that that's the 135 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:30.680 case because it increases GDP. 136 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:32.560 I'll just take a circle. 137 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:37.160 It's okay. If we're going to do like it, we 138 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.000 can do a grip with trelembit. It's just useless. I 139 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.240 can use it at you too. 140 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:40.600 Right. 141 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.519 Well, but if I'm arguing for a moral aught on 142 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:45.759 the basis of there's not a moral ought, it is 143 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.000 you said not a good. If you say something. 144 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.920 Id it's functional. Yeah, okay, we're doing chatter. 145 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.839 So now you're wanting me to use function in a debate. 146 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.639 If you're arguing for your position, then you're necessarily arguing 147 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.680 that we ought to follow your position. 148 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.560 Yeah. I think I said a necessity and an unavoidable 149 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:06.199 It doesn't mean it's a moral claim. It would be 150 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:07.959 like real politic, Well, that. 151 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.639 It's an ought, because do you think we should we 152 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:09.920 ought to. 153 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:12.240 Follow your ought? 154 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:12.959 We follow your. 155 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.040 Arguments as in like should you do what I prescribe 156 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:16.720 for society? 157 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:22.959 Ought? We follow the true arguments versus the false arguments. Sure, okay, 158 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.279 then you're using an ought right now to argue for 159 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:27.000 your position. 160 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:28.600 Sure, but this isn't a moral claim. 161 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.000 You just argue that we ought to follow your position. 162 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:36.319 That's it is. Aughts are morals if you're extending them 163 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.480 to everybody in the theoretical realm of listening to the debate. 164 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.120 Do you think that it's so we are not moral 165 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.120 to have GDP? Do you think GDP is moral. 166 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.560 In your I'm pointing out that you're answer. My question 167 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:50.160 is I have a different system than you, so it's 168 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:51.240 not going to apply to my system. 169 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:53.560 Do you think that GDP is moral? 170 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.519 Everything in life is conceivably or potentially moral. 171 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:57.600 How is GDP moral? 172 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:01.519 Because you extended it to in this argument the highest good? 173 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.000 I did not you did walked it back after ask 174 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:04.759 for the highest good? 175 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.000 No, yes, you did, I did not. You said for 176 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:08.920 a nation state. I guess it's like one of the 177 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.319 higher goods. Yes, it's not the highest good and I 178 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:13.240 have said so, and what is the good? 179 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:13.519 Jay? 180 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:14.839 I don't know how to explain to you over and 181 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.879 over that this is not a moral claim. It's you're 182 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:18.040 saying that pragmatism. 183 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.759 You're saying that, but ought we follow your argument and pragmatism. 184 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.560 Here if you want a flourishing society, buy. 185 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:28.439 And logically sure, but it ought we logically it's sure. 186 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:30.639 It's again, it's not a moral claim. 187 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:31.199 It's not. 188 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.040 Is GDP a moral claim? 189 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:35.199 It can be depending upon the system. 190 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.680 How is GDP a moral claim in your system? 191 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.680 How you're arguing that? You just said we ought to 192 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:40.639 follow your argument. 193 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:42.360 I don't know how many times to tell you this. 194 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:44.000 I'm not making a claim. 195 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:45.839 You are. I mean you're saying you're not. 196 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.319 You're just keep taking time. 197 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.800 You say that there's an ought. 198 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.560 That's not true. 199 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.360 That is true. No, it is even if you redefine 200 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:53.480 it as this. 201 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:55.480 You don't have to have a liberal society that has 202 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:57.600 a high GDP. You're just going to get stomped and 203 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.439 you'll be a failed nation state. It's neutral morally. 204 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:04.720 Yeah, but you're missing the point about highest goods for society. 205 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.879 You're arguing that engaging in that yet, well, I'm. 206 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.199 That's go ahead. 207 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.199 Oh no, just if you guys can try that, If 208 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:14.839 you guys can just try to let each other finish 209 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:16.360 your thoughts, but go ahead. 210 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:21.519 So this debate necessarily comes down to metaphysical claims and 211 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:27.160 epistemical claims and ethical claims. Yes, it does, because feminism 212 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:32.279 is about morals, ethics, biology, society, social relations. You can't 213 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:33.320 divorce ethics from that. 214 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:33.519 Now. 215 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.279 If you think you can, I'm happy to address that, 216 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:37.919 but that's just going to get you in an even 217 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:38.480 deeper bind. 218 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:40.519 I'm not saying that you can't that you can divorce 219 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:40.879 these things. 220 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:43.039 Of course, if you just argued a minute ago that 221 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.440 it's not medp is not moral, then you can't divorce 222 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.360 these things. So you just contradicted yourself. 223 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.919 So there are lots of elements. There are lots of 224 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:53.679 elements within feminism that do make moral claims, right, lots 225 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.559 of them. When I'm talking about something like an innovator scale, 226 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:58.200 it's not a moral claim, it's real politics. 227 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.039 Dan you think that, but pointing out that it is 228 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:02.799 still moral, that's the argument I'm making. 229 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.639 Okay, do you want to engage with the actual conversation. 230 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:10.440 Now, you saying that doesn't avoid the argument. I'm okay, 231 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:11.279 I know that's what you're. 232 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.600 Why is GDP not good for society or is it? 233 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:15.679 I'm saying it depends on your standard of good. Well, 234 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:16.480 that's what I'm asking you. 235 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.039 Your a standard of good, and I. 236 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.320 Think GDP can be great for a society, but it's 237 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:23.039 not the highest good of society, such as the social 238 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:27.360 cohesion of society. That's more important than who's making FIAT money. 239 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:28.600 Okay, what do you think is the role of the 240 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:29.200 nation state? 241 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.039 The nation state has the job and the duty to 242 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:40.320 defend its people and to maintain a healthy society, to 243 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:43.320 punish the wicked, and to reward virtue. 244 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.240 Sure, yeah, I would probably agree it's to keep its 245 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.320 citizens safe. Right, Okay, how does it do that at a. 246 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:51.600 I said, reward virtue and punished vice. So there's also 247 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.639 necessarily an ethical component there. 248 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.480 Sure that that's your your claim, that's my worldview. I'm 249 00:09:57.559 --> 00:09:59.840 just engaging with it, right, Okay, So then how does 250 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.159 your nation state in your worldview, protect itself from. 251 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.200 Enemies but has a standing army? 252 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.320 Okay, and how does it fund that standing army? 253 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.559 Well, nations have gone into debts, or they have been 254 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.600 prosperous and used their own treasuries, or they have raised 255 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:17.279 money to go to war. So there's a lot of 256 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:17.919 different ways. 257 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:19.600 That could happen, okay, And so what do you think 258 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:20.600 is the right way to do that? 259 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.399 It's an oversimplification question because not everything in regard to 260 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.679 warfare or history of civilizations is necessarily right or wrong. 261 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:34.559 It's a question of what might be the best or 262 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:36.000 the worst. So there can be scales. 263 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:39.159 It's not just there are some things that aren't moral necessarily. 264 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:40.879 Some of them are just pragmatic, and then there's some 265 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:41.679 things that are moral. 266 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.480 Everything could potentially be moral, but some things are pragmatic. 267 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:50.919 Sure, Okay, that's basically what I've been saying. 268 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.279 Yeah, but you got appealing to the good of a 269 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:53.960 nation state. 270 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.519 You were again because you were using the word good 271 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.159 in a way that I wasn't meaning it. And even 272 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.000 though I clarified multiple times that I meant functional, and 273 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.039 I even said, what word would you like me to 274 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:05.039 use to describe this? 275 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.679 I understand that you think that saying that because it's functional, 276 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.759 it removes the ethical domain. But it doesn't, is the 277 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.960 point I'm trying to make because the question that we're 278 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.279 debating is whether feminism is good for society or not. 279 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:19.519 That's an ethical moral Okay, So. 280 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:21.240 Going back to the chatter thing, how we have to 281 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.919 agree about words. Okay, you're now essentially assigning to me 282 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.360 what good means, and it's it's obvious that I'm not. 283 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:29.519 I'm doing an internal critique because what I'm doing, you 284 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.039 know what that was assigning to me. 285 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:34.159 Do you know what internal critique is? Tell me, so, 286 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:37.080 I'm criticizing your position on its own grounds. That's an 287 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:38.840 internal critique. That's what happens in debates. 288 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.080 Okay, what word would you like me to use when 289 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.399 I am describing this non moral functional element that is 290 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:45.440 the one. 291 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.399 That makes a non moral position makes sense of why 292 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.639 feminism is a good for society. 293 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.480 We can get there, but again we have to you're 294 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.080 not going to get there. Well, we can, but you're 295 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.720 not even you're not even like we're doing chatter. We're 296 00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.960 literally no, we're doing. 297 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:01.519 At the point where you don't understand the issue. 298 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:04.360 That's that's not true. All you've done at this point 299 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:08.720 is just like you've basically you're in you're just weaponizing trigris. 300 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:11.679 Now you admitted that the debate is about whether feminism 301 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.919 is good for society. That's a moral ethical domain, right there. 302 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:17.600 Sure, there are some moral elements. 303 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.960 So when you make arguments about GDP, if it's not moral, 304 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:22.320 then it's not relevant to the debate. 305 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:25.759 It's absolutely moral. What language would like to use? I 306 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:28.320 said it's not. There is moral elements and there are 307 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:29.480 some non moral elements. 308 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.600 Is the debate today about something moral? 309 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:34.720 Uh? 310 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.320 I don't know if I agreed to saying we're only 311 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:42.039 going to talk about epistemics and morality. Good is again 312 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:45.360 this word that we're basically doing chatter around where you're 313 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.039 assigning a label to it, and I haven't agreed to. 314 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:50.600 I'm trying to figure out your position on the good. 315 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.120 My position on the good because it's holistic. There are 316 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.320 things that are good because it's functional, and there are 317 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:56.879 things that it's good because it's moral. 318 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.399 Right, Is the debate today feminism about the good of 319 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:01.480 the moral for society? 320 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.039 It's about I guess I would like to make the 321 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:04.679 case for both. 322 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:08.320 Okay, So, and that means that everything you've been saying 323 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:09.360 for the last hour is wrong. 324 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.720 No, Because I'm making a case for the functional element too. 325 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.200 But the fact that you're making the case for the 326 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.759 function element too doesn't matter. If you're also talking about 327 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:18.639 the moral. 328 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:20.840 You can make both arguments, and I would like to 329 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:22.440 engage in the first one. 330 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.440 Right, because the other one is the one I'm looking at. 331 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:25.600 And that's the problem for you. 332 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.360 It's not the problem for me. No, right, No, The 333 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.080 problem with this conversation is it essentially what you've done 334 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.159 is you've assigned me a bunch of positions that I 335 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.159 don't have. No, You've done a bunch of circle talk 336 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.840 about words, You've done a couple of rhetorical flash bangs, 337 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.240 and now we're stuck in the situation where we can't 338 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.279 actually talk about the ideas, which is unfortunate because I. 339 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.879 Was really looking fund to assort. You're chasing your like 340 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.600 one foot is nailed and then the other one is 341 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.600 going in a circle. Like you're like a car again, 342 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:54.639 you're running in a circle. 343 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.840 If you want to like throw a Gripa's trilemma at me, 344 00:13:58.120 --> 00:13:59.919 you can, But I can throw it at you too, 345 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:02.399 And if we do that, then there's no point run 346 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.919 an impasse. What do you think is good? 347 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.639 The good ultimately relates to God, the highest good okay. 348 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.919 The highest good? So is GDP in direction of that 349 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:11.279 or not. 350 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:14.759 All things that exist are good in some way and 351 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.399 in some way relate to morals, But I do not 352 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.639 believe that the GDP is the highest good for society. 353 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:22.919 Okay. What is the highest good for society? 354 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.200 The health and flourishing of the society, which has to 355 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.840 exist within some kind of patriarchal norm that's the only 356 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:30.519 way that it can. 357 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:31.399 Function, gotcha. 358 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:34.080 And the ones that don't, they dysfunction. 359 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.279 Okay. And so in your mind, does GDP contribute to 360 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:38.679 any of that? 361 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.240 It's just one component of life, just like I don't 362 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:45.759 know the size of the nation's land mass is one. 363 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.879 Component, Sue, I won't agree with that, but. 364 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:50.000 It's not the highest good. 365 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:50.759 Okay. 366 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.120 So what's the argument that feminism is good for society. 367 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.639 Feminism is good for society at a functional level because 368 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.720 it increases innovator scale. I also think it's the right 369 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:02.240 thing to do. 370 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.559 That's moral oughts, Yep. 371 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:06.960 I'm giving you a moral claim now. 372 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:11.120 Okay, thank you. And why is it right for society? 373 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.399 It is right for society because I think in general 374 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.720 we should try to treat others well, and I think 375 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:21.200 limiting people's opportunity by force is bad for them. I 376 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:25.639 don't think God wants that. Okay, what God, the Christian one? 377 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.799 Okay, where does he talk about. 378 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:31.080 This forcing people to do things? 379 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:32.200 No? 380 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.639 This idea of what the good is for society because 381 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:38.320 we have a lot of historical Christian societies. Sure, were 382 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:39.559 any of them feminists? 383 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:40.480 No? 384 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.519 But I don't think in general that God advocates really 385 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:43.960 strongly for a political system. 386 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:45.840 Really? 387 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:46.279 No? 388 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.799 What about when Israel was organized? Was that a political 389 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.120 system like. 390 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.879 In nineteen forty eight? No, in the Old Testament, In 391 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.159 the Old Testament, yeah, it was a political society. 392 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.120 How is it organized? What does that have to do 393 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.120 with whether it was organized in a certain way or not. 394 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.200 It has nothing to do with my claim. 395 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.879 What does the Old Testament say about how God organized 396 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:08.519 that society? 397 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.080 He gave them prescriptions about how to run their life 398 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:11.759 from Moses. 399 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:13.559 How was that society organized? 400 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.039 It was organized. I believe in a patriarchal society with 401 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:19.480 matrilineal heritage. 402 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:24.320 And it was a monarchy, yes, a male monarchy yep. Okay, 403 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.679 So in that regard, God was not feminist. 404 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.200 Right, I've never said that God was feminist. 405 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:35.039 Well, I'm asking if there's a history example of where 406 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.200 God organized the feminist society. 407 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:40.039 I mean, it's interesting because when you look at like 408 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.559 ancient Judeo history, if you're not being presentist, it was 409 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:48.879 like insanely progressive compared to like the Pagans around them, 410 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:50.600 like the Assyrians and Babylonians. 411 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:52.080 That's not what I'm asking. 412 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:54.120 Well, it is what you're asking. 413 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:56.600 You're calling it progressive, and I would just say it's healthy. 414 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:57.799 So the fact that they're. 415 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:01.120 Like God seemed to advocate to some degree for a 416 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.279 better treatment of women than any other society. 417 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:05.920 But that's not feminism. 418 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:07.759 Uh, to some degree. You could argue that is if 419 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.039 you agree with my definition, which is like the import But. 420 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.599 Your definition is so elastic and broad that it could 421 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:14.880 be anything except for what my position is. No, I 422 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.680 don't because I'm not agreeing that Old Testament patriarchal society 423 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.160 is feminist. You just admit it. It's not. 424 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.000 If you're not agreeing, why did we even define the 425 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:22.680 words at the beginning? 426 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.319 Can you name a feminist society? I'm God advocated. 427 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279 I'm not interested to you appeal to God. 428 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.279 Yeah, I think it's it's a good thing to treat 429 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:31.279 women well did God? 430 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:33.680 Ever, that's not feminism. Now you're equivocating. 431 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:35.839 I'm not equivocating, Yes you are. 432 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:36.200 How am I. 433 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.200 Equivocate changing the moving the goalpost is to what feminism is? 434 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:44.880 It's completely different, balance God hascating equivocating by moving the goalpost. 435 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.039 Now it's both. You're equivocating on the word and moving 436 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:50.599 the goalposts to make your position work. So if there's 437 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:54.400 no feminist, if there's no feminist, equivocating. 438 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.160 On the word, that's not what equivocating. 439 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.839 I know what equivocation means, Yes, it does. It means 440 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.559 that two different unders saying of a word. You're equivocating 441 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.039 on the word, Okay, feminism, and you're defining to say 442 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.359 that if God in the Old Testament gives women rights, 443 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:10.920 that's feminism. That's not what feminism is. Feminism is a 444 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:12.559 modern movement, post. 445 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.680 Revolutionary my definition of feminism. 446 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.680 Because it's so broad that that's fine if you want 447 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:22.000 to defend that against patriarchy. But I'm arguing patriarchy against feminism. 448 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.920 And what you appeal to is moving the goals, agreeing 449 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.400 to a definition of feminism. And now you're saying that 450 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.400 can't work anymore because it's defeating my argument. 451 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.240 The Old Testament God and the New Testament God are 452 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:38.000 the same God, and they never institute a feminist society, 453 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:40.960 and women's rights are being made in the image of God, 454 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.079 that women are protected now in that status. What do 455 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:45.400 you mean it's not feminism. 456 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.240 What do you mean by a feminist society. 457 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.640 A matriarchal society, or a non patriarchal society. 458 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.759 I've never advocated for either of these things. 459 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:58.000 Okay, but feminism has never been a societal goal in 460 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.000 the Old Testament or the New Testament or the history 461 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:01.599 of any Christian society. 462 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:02.480 Again, so you have. 463 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:03.440 No examples of this. 464 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.240 I haven't advocated for any of these things. I don't. 465 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.839 You appealed to God as your standard of the aught 466 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:10.240 and the right, the moral right. 467 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.400 It's a moral thing to truet well. 468 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.039 And then I said, give me the examples of where 469 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.359 that God ever institute anything like what you're talking about 470 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.839 from the feminism. And there's not. There's not. 471 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.200 There is according to the definition you agree to you, No, 472 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:24.839 there's not. Yeah, the empowerment promotion of femininity. 473 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:27.039 That is not what is happening in the Old test judaism. 474 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.279 That is not the most progressive approach to femininity of 475 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.240 all of the. 476 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.440 Modern Rabbinic Judaism is not the same thing as what's 477 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:34.680 in the Mosaic law. 478 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:35.119 You asked for. 479 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.599 You admit, admitted, I just gave you one. 480 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.319 That's not Rabbinic Judaism. Admitted that it's a there's a 481 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:41.240 patriarchal society. 482 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:43.440 That's what you mean. It's not you don't think Old 483 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:44.920 Testament Judeos. 484 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.559 Like, no, it's not. It's not different. 485 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.559 What are you talking about. 486 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.920 It's not the same thing as you don't think that the. 487 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:54.319 Twelve hundred BC society that was erected by King David 488 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.599 wasn't wasn't a rabbinic society. 489 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.640 Rabbinic Judaism comes out of the fourth and fifth century 490 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:02.599 when the them in the Babylonian Helmut is collected and collated. 491 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:05.359 So you're saying that Old Testament is not. 492 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:12.440 Rabbinic, No, okay, and it's patriarchal. So even if it 493 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.000 was rabbinic, it wouldn't rEFInd then there's no examples of 494 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:16.720 what you're talking about. 495 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.480 Well, the issue for me is that what you're what 496 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.839 you're doing is you're creating a false econtomy. You're pretending 497 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.960 like patriarchy and feminism can't coexist to the same They cannot, 498 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:25.559 of course they can. We live in one. 499 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.160 Being feminine is not the same thing as the movement 500 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.119 of feminism. 501 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.200 I didn't say that it is. I said that. 502 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.240 You said that femininity is promoting the Old Testament, and 503 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:37.359 you use that as a way. 504 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.480 To prove your position that it empowered women and it 505 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:43.400 promoted femininity. It empowered women by creating matulinal lines of inheritance, 506 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.640 and it promoted femininity by making a whole bunch of 507 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.039 female figures be viewed as these like incredible characters to 508 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:52.000 look up to, like Ruth and Debron and stuff like that. 509 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:53.480 Okay, well there's a plenty. According to the. 510 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.240 Definition you agreed to, one feminism would be feminism. 511 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.759 Then it wasn't quote progressive according to your view, because 512 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:01.160 other societies worship the Oddists, and that would be more 513 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.640 progressive than what you said. 514 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:04.319 If you want, we can go back an hour and 515 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:06.480 we can redo chatter, and you can make a new 516 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.880 definition for feminism that you like more so that you 517 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.720 can apply it more narrowly if you'd like. 518 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.920 You have moved the goalposts. I have not what feminism is. 519 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.480 I wrote it down to anything. 520 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:21.559 That, so is the goddess feminism? 521 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:22.599 I don't know what is. 522 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.400 Goddess worship in the ancient pagan world. Is that feminism? 523 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.160 It might be okay, I don't know your view. 524 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.799 So your position is so elastic that it could encompass any. 525 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.440 Possible Why did you agree to it? 526 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.200 It's unfault because the way you you've framed it was 527 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.559 anti patriarchy, and I'm finding I. 528 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:41.400 Did not frame it that the. 529 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:42.839 Terms of this debate. I want to go back and 530 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.599 feminism or is patriarchy? 531 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:46.160 I wrote it down? Do you want to go The 532 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:46.640 fact that you. 533 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.599 Wrote it down just means that you wrote you misunderstand 534 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:49.279 what you wrote down. 535 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.319 No, that's even dumber the issue the issue, rather than 536 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.599 you're just being bad faith for no reason. 537 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:57.319 No, this is good. You don't know what you don't 538 00:21:57.319 --> 00:21:59.240 even know what an internal critique is, So I'm not 539 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:01.680 being bad faith and debating for twenty five years completely. 540 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.440 It's completely fine to know what terms are. 541 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.480 Right, sure, but in terms of debate, that's like one 542 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.240 on one knowing what an internal critique is. 543 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.640 I understand what consistency checks are. I just didn't use 544 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:16.960 the language internal critique. Right, So if we want to 545 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.680 go back an hour, you agreed to this idea of chatter, right, 546 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.279 how we want to define concepts, agree to them so 547 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:23.640 that we can talk about idea. 548 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.079 Y's or chatter. I'm just kidding. Go ahead. 549 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.680 So if you agree to that, and then you agree 550 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.759 to the terms, you can change them later. I'm just 551 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:37.519 going to be good faith. You can change them later 552 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.079 if you want to. Let's just go back to the 553 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:43.079 terms again and narrow it down to what we can 554 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.559 agree to of what feminism and patriarchy means, because now 555 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.559 all you're doing. 556 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.400 I gave a very precise definition for patriarchy, right. 557 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:50.960 Sure I did. 558 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.480 And you gave a very loose definition as to what 559 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:58.240 you think feminism is, which could encompass conceivably anything that 560 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.359 helps women, and that's an ambiguity fallacy. 561 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.559 Then provided different definition, don't agree to it. 562 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.680 In my opening statement, I said that I believe feminism 563 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:12.279 is a revolutionary philosophy that destroys society. It was brought 564 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:16.240 about to change society in Toto and ultimately to serve 565 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.079 into oligarchical designs and people who and I gave sources. 566 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.440 You can read the rock Fellers authorisbiography. They have a 567 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.319 whole discussion of Abby rock Piller funding third wave feminism, 568 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:27.359 and how. 569 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.720 Is this not just as ambiguous as the way it's 570 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:30.319 just a revenue. 571 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:32.799 This is ambiguous. I'm literally giving you the people who 572 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:34.960 funded it and the actual names of the people. 573 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.400 Like, none of this matters. 574 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.519 No, that's not an authority. That's the people involved. It's 575 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:43.400 not an authority. Peop. 576 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.720 Yeah, if the people an authority Pill funded them is 577 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:47.640 an authority for. 578 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:52.440 The people Abby Rockefeller, it's not. 579 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:54.000 Why are you citing them? 580 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.680 It's a person who's in the movement, is not just 581 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:57.240 the funder. 582 00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:58.480 You're appealing to authority. 583 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:00.359 You don't know what an appeal to. That's a fact. 584 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:01.599 It's not an appeal to authority. 585 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:05.319 You don't know what them a definition of feminism. 586 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:06.839 That's not an appeal to authority. 587 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:07.400 Yes it is. 588 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:09.519 No, it's not. You don't know what an appeal to. 589 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:13.319 If I said my position is true because I cite 590 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.880 the Rockefellers, that would be an appeal to authority. And 591 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:17.319 that's a fallacy. 592 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.160 Definition evidence because of the Rockefellers. 593 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:22.960 If you want, no, I'm not I'm telling you if 594 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.599 the history of the movement which you don't even know. 595 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:29.519 Again, I've asked you to define feminism, and now I'm. 596 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.880 Giving you the history of that movement, which is three waves. 597 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.039 Why can't you give me a Are there three waves 598 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:36.680 of feminism? 599 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:37.519 There's four? 600 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:41.359 Okay, so there's three? You didn't know that. That's crazy. 601 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:44.240 So there are three? Correct, there's four, right, But that 602 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.200 would mean there's also three even though there's a four 603 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.000 threat that's true. 604 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.319 Three is less than four. 605 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.240 I know that. But the fact that there's four, there's 606 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:53.039 still three that have happened. 607 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:57.319 Right, irrelevant to any modern. 608 00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:57.839 Is that an appeal to authority? 609 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:00.680 What authority am I citing right now? 610 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.880 I know you're citing facts that you think are appeal 611 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:03.559 to authority. 612 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.160 Have I cited? Name one? Name one authority I've cited, Jay, 613 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.599 you think name one authority? I don't understand, name one 614 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.519 authority I've cited. 615 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.480 I'm making a joke because you think appealing to a 616 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.759 fact is appeal to authority. 617 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:16.599 Those are two different things. 618 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.799 Not true in fact, when you were citing, when you're 619 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:24.559 citing Rockefeller as the definition for feminists, no, there is 620 00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.039 not the definition, you idiot, And why are you appealing 621 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:27.759 to them in any way? 622 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.480 That prove the history of the movement. You know what 623 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.720 it teaches is Yes, I just gave you the example 624 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.039 I gave I've been abating for twenty five years. I 625 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:37.680 know what they pilled authority is. That's one right there. 626 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.240 Okay, So the authority to appeal to irrelevant people. That 627 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:46.279 sounds not irrelevant relevant The history womanism is irrelevant to 628 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.559 you giving me a definition of femine. 629 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.599 It is that I can Is it a historical movement? 630 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:51.000 You give me? 631 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.680 Is it a historical movement? Yeah, of course, then the 632 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:55.799 history is relevant to the definition. 633 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.920 You idiot, and give me the definition. You can do it, Jay, 634 00:25:58.960 --> 00:25:59.960 you can do it, j I believe it. 635 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:01.759 Yeah, talking to a five year old. 636 00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:03.799 Yeah, well you're a big boy. So this should be 637 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.079 really easy for you to find. Feminism, go ahead. 638 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:11.039 Feminism is a historical movement that's concerned with the rights 639 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:15.240 of women, including egalitarianism, the idea that women and men 640 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.000 are equal. If we go back to Wollstonecraft, if we 641 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:20.400 go back to the suffrage movement, if we go back 642 00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:22.759 to the notion of women not being married at certain 643 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:28.039 ages as children. So the first wave wanted not just suffragism, 644 00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:30.880 but they also wanted to not have child brides and 645 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:31.559 that kind of stuff. 646 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:32.400 I'm really proud of you. 647 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.279 Shut up and let me finish. I'm not done. Get done. 648 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:43.440 They also wanted better work hours, They wanted women to 649 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:46.960 have inheritance rights. They wanted women to be able to 650 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.519 get jobs, and they went to women in the workforce 651 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.559 and to be in positions that they didn't have. So 652 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.759 they wanted certain social rights that women like voting right, 653 00:26:57.839 --> 00:26:59.839 suffrage right. Those are all first wave. 654 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:04.240 Yeah, okay, this is your definition of feminism. Okay, I'm 655 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:04.880 writing it down. 656 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:05.599 Are you serious? 657 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:09.119 Look, I'm so dumb for the history of it. I 658 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:11.119 didn't ask you for the history. I did ask you 659 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:11.400 for You. 660 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.599 Said that it's historical, okay, and I'm giving you the movements. 661 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.119 I'm not asking for the history. 662 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:18.119 I'm asking you said it is historically. 663 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:20.079 So I have to go back to the people. Know 664 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:22.599 you're so dumb that you can't conceive of a position 665 00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:24.119 apart from the people. 666 00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:27.839 Something came up with the position so Israel. I can 667 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.359 define Israel without going through the entire history of Israel 668 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.799 feminism while it doesn't. Actually you can, of course you can. 669 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.960 This is so you admitted it's a historical movement, Therefore 670 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.440 it can't be divorced from the people in history. I'm 671 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.920 not asking do you think it came out of the 672 00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:46.720 sky to come into people's minds out of the sky 673 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:47.759 or from the people. 674 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:50.039 You're doing a false dichotomy again, what. 675 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:52.039 Are you You don't hear you're acting like. 676 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.319 You're acting like you can't define it without the history. 677 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.880 I'm telling correct, it's a historical movement by your own definition. 678 00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:58.759 It doesn't mean that you can't make a definition for 679 00:27:58.839 --> 00:27:59.279 the worst. 680 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:01.559 So you have to to the people. Where do you 681 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.720 think words come from from people? That they don't drop 682 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:06.200 out of the sky, they come from people. 683 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:08.559 I know you can do this. You can define a 684 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:11.359 word without giving me a five on history? 685 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:11.920 No you can't. 686 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.640 So there's no way for you to define feminists. 687 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.759 Would you go to a dictionary? That's an appeal to authority. 688 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.480 It's not an okay. There are appeal to authorities that 689 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.559 are fallacious, and there are appeal to authorities that are not. 690 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.160 Like when I give the examples of the rocket funders of. 691 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:28.440 It is not an appeal. 692 00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:31.400 It's not just a thunder. Abbey was involved in Cell sixteen. 693 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:32.119 She's not just a. 694 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:33.680 Funder that doesn't matter. 695 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:35.480 It does because it came from them. 696 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:38.480 That doesn't mean that she's a relevant authority to cite. 697 00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:41.559 The one who funded it and got it going at 698 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.079 Chicago University. 699 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.680 Is of the third wave. Yes, that doesn't mean that 700 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:46.559 it comes. 701 00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:48.440 Out of her money. No, that does, millions of dollars 702 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:49.720 at Chicago University. 703 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:51.960 That doesn't mean that she's the definer of feminists. 704 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.119 I didn't say she was, said she. 705 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.480 Incited her as a definer femin she's involved in the 706 00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:57.440 third wave movement. 707 00:28:58.839 --> 00:28:59.640 You're so stupid. 708 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:05.039 I've got three things from you so far. Rights of women, 709 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.359 men and women. Are you admitted labor rights. 710 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:14.160 I mentioned in terms of first wave feminism, I mentioned 711 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.880 child age of marriage as another element of it. In 712 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:19.039 terms of the first wave. 713 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:20.880 Civil rights, let's just call those civil rights. 714 00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:24.680 That's not civil rights. It's prior to the civil rights movement, 715 00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:25.160 you idiot. 716 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.480 That doesn't mean that it's not civil rights. Jay, I'm 717 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:29.400 just trying to create a way to make this succinct 718 00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.759 so we can get a fucking definition because you don't 719 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.279 like mine, which is fine, I said, that's why. 720 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.799 I'm just. 721 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.799 That's fine, make your own. 722 00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.480 I'm giving the history. I don't need it's my own definition. 723 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:46.400 It's your position. You goof us. You debate positions like 724 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.519 when you debated Jimbob, and you tell people to define 725 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.640 your position. This is how silly you are. No, Ja, 726 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:53.880 I gave a broad definition, gave. 727 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:57.000 You a definition, and which is too That's fine, make 728 00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:59.519 your own definition and then we can MA. 729 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:01.319 Yes you do. 730 00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:04.160 If you have rejected my definition, you now have to 731 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:04.880 supply one. 732 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.200 Yes, I'm going to the people who came up with 733 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.319 it correct. Didn't come up with it, I said Mary 734 00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:12.359 walstone Craft in my opening statement, is one of the 735 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:14.799 first feminists in modern society. 736 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.119 Do you want a supply definition? This doesn't matter, Ja, 737 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.079 just any definition. 738 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:22.640 The people who came up with it don't matter. 739 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.200 They matter if you can get to getting a definition 740 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.279 out of your fucking mouth. We've got we've got four 741 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:31.880 elements of feminism now, okay, so we've got rights of 742 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:36.720 women like men and women are equal, galitarianism, labor rights, 743 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:38.960 and civil rights. Is there anything else you would like 744 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:39.960 to add to that definition? 745 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.680 As we move into modernity, we get more radical versions 746 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.000 of this, particularly with Cell sixteen, which becomes almost a 747 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:51.920 revolutionary terrorist movement which it wants to engage in radical 748 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.200 action and skittles rights, shall we say, so they move 749 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.960 into it being skittles as well. Okay, So I don't 750 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.880 care if you reject. I don't care if you reject 751 00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.720 that or accept that. I because I'm looking at this 752 00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:08.359 as a historical movement, because guess what, feminism is a 753 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:10.319 historical movement, that's what we're debating. 754 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.680 You might not believe me, Jay, So, so I'm so 755 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:17.160 disappointed about this conversation. I talked about chatter because I was. 756 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.880 Interested in a good discuss saying chatter doesn't have anything 757 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:21.440 to do with the fact that I did an internal 758 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.440 critique and you didn't know what that was. And then 759 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:24.920 I started going to the history of feminism. 760 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.920 Right now you're just saying I'm just saying stuff. Yeah, 761 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.720 there we go. So going to chatter. The reason I 762 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:32.160 asked you about it is so that we could have 763 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.839 a decently good conversation, so that we weren't quibbling over 764 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.200 the definition of words and we could actually engage in conversation. 765 00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:40.920 If if the only way that you can debate for 766 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:43.839 the last twenty five years is to just quibble about 767 00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:47.440 semantics of words, I'm sorry, you're not a king debater. 768 00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:48.960 You're just bad face. 769 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.319 You asked me for the last thirty minutes to define 770 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.960 a word. So you're the one who's quibbling about semantics. 771 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.759 I'm literally not quibbling. I am writing down your words. 772 00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.440 Oh so, if I'm writing it down. 773 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.759 It's not semantics because I'm just granting. 774 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.160 Your defination semantics. No, it's not. 775 00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:07.640 It's not semantic debating because I'm not disagreeing with you 776 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.480 on your definition. I'm literally begging you to just give 777 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.359 me one. I'm begging you at this point because you 778 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.799 don't like mine, So let's give yours. 779 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.559 I don't care what your definition is, because all I 780 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.880 have to do is critique your position internally. 781 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.720 And points out you to do my definition. If you're 782 00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.119 going to do an internal critique, that's the fundamental of 783 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.559 a fucking internal critique, is that now you do know 784 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:31.400 about So you. 785 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:33.599 Just learned about an internal critique about ten minutes ago, 786 00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:35.279 and now you're going to lecture me on it. 787 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.440 You're a really good teacher, Jay, Can I say so debates? 788 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:41.920 You do care about it. You do care about feminism 789 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:43.720 and my definition of it because you need it for 790 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:45.640 the internal critique, which you've already I don't. 791 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.880 Care about it because now you've rejected. 792 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:51.759 My definition of feminism. So again, I know being mean 793 00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:56.160 to women, Isaack go, it's not an ad hobin. And 794 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.759 I didn't say you're to you. I mean, I didn't 795 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.319 say you're wrong because being an asshole. I just said 796 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:02.000 you're an asshole. 797 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:02.880 Now you're getting your feelings. 798 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:07.480 That's not an ad hominem. My feelings are no insulting people, 799 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.319 and being mean is an ad home. You should know this. 800 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:11.400 You can google it. Google it at home and at 801 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:13.400 home is when you use the insult of a person 802 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:16.039 to discredit them. So if I said, Jay, you're wrong 803 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:18.680 because you're mean now in mad harming you. As a 804 00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.039 debate bro of twenty five years, you should know your 805 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:26.240 fallacies better. You've already been wrong about multiple fallacies. Really, 806 00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.759 and you can't yes, and you can't define feminism. Do 807 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:29.559 you want to get there? 808 00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.240 I've already You've already admitted that I gave you four elements. 809 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.400 It seems like you have four five. 810 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:36.960 Actually, I think that the actually thing that you want 811 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.559 to ask you actually think like or you maybe a 812 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.440 one hundred IQ person, that the way that you define 813 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:44.960 something is you literally just look at a definition and 814 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.119 a dictionary and then you just list it out and 815 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.759 that's the definition of the word. 816 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:49.759 That's all. 817 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.640 Really, yeah, I've never seen it. 818 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.880 Because I'm giving you the entire context of the history 819 00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:59.240 of feminism and you're saying, fucking definition as we're working 820 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.599 through the actual history of it and the definition of 821 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:02.119 what it is. 822 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:02.960 To give me. 823 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:05.079 You admitted that it's a historical movement. 824 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.279 That has nothing to do with you. You're giving me 825 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:07.880 a definition. 826 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:12.239 We admit that it's a historical, of course, so the 827 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:14.360 history has to do with it, you idiots. 828 00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.199 I don't need the history for you to give me 829 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:16.760 a definition. 830 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:19.320 You have to go to the people who are the 831 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:23.199 philosophers of it. You can just like Mary wollstone Craft 832 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.000 and her position. You can just like egalitarianism. 833 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.280 You can just define it. 834 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.280 I'm defining for you. I've been defining. Can you just 835 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.239 keep yapping and melting down over your no? 836 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.400 Well, the issue is that it has taken me pushing 837 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.519 you to be specific over and over for forty five minutes. 838 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.719 We have five points now. 839 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.280 Because you don't have anything other than this that's false. 840 00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.480 How does any of this definition prove. 841 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:46.639 Your position that feminism is good for society as a feminist. 842 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:48.000 Can you're showing. 843 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.280 Us that you're not good for society. So you're actually 844 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.920 proving my point as you yap and argue, you're. 845 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:54.440 Not actually example of ano. 846 00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.079 That is an act, but it's an illustrative ad hominem. Yes, 847 00:34:59.239 --> 00:34:59.639 that's true. 848 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.480 It was a very creative at home. Okay, So we 849 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:03.960 have five points that you would like to define feminism. Is 850 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.239 there any other points that you want to define feminism with? 851 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:07.519 Yes? 852 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:07.880 Anything. 853 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.079 People who funded that also said that they like the 854 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.599 movement because it destroys the nuclear family, gets women in 855 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.679 the workforce, taxes the other half of the population, and 856 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:21.039 reduces the population because there's less families. 857 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:26.719 How do you want to summarize that construction of family? 858 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:29.239 You can't remember four sentences. 859 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:30.920 I just know I can remember. I just want to like, 860 00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:34.159 you're such a You're just very yappy, and so I'd 861 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.280 like to make it systinct. Yes, you to give me 862 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.280 a definition. You've had to give me an entire century's 863 00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:40.760 worth of history, even though, like. 864 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.079 When you admitted that it's a historical movement, so it can't. 865 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.840 Be what you could have done. You could have just 866 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:47.480 said to me so that we can move forward to 867 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.679 this conversation. Feminism is, But I'm not. 868 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:55.519 Going to transfer simple answers in a debate. 869 00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:57.639 Why would you just define a word. 870 00:35:57.960 --> 00:35:59.480 I don't owe you a definition. 871 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.920 Maybe we could avoid some of the insults, and if 872 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.480 we can also allow people to to finish their thought, 873 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.280 let's try to Okay, are you to interruptions? 874 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.280 But go ahead? Yeah, you want to know how this 875 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.360 any of this helps your case to prove feminism is 876 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.159 good for society. 877 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.679 Well, we can get there now that we've defined feminism. 878 00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.000 So destruction of nuclear family is another one that you 879 00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.679 would like to add to the definition of feminism. 880 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:26.079 That's why the people who fund it matter is because 881 00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:26.840 they say that. 882 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:30.280 Okay, I would argue that the destruction of nuclear families 883 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.800 is not inherent to most feminist movements and is bad. 884 00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:34.960 So I reject that part of your definition. 885 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.559 So the people who want that in society and say 886 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.400 that it does that don't matter because you. 887 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:41.800 Have that, they're not the feminism that I'm fighting. 888 00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:44.719 Because you have a definition that is so elastic to 889 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.679 make it anything that you think helps women. And that's 890 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.760 why I've said you've already lost a debate because you're 891 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.880 a last the. 892 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.079 Will you define. That's why women of promotion of femininity. 893 00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:58.159 So empowerment means that we're moving on ambiguous and promotion 894 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:00.679 of feminist It would be like making femin in traits 895 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:02.679 viewed as respectworthy. 896 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.760 Like submitting to authority and men. Is that a feminine trait? 897 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.800 No, I would Oh, so it's not clear. 898 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.039 It's ambiguous. 899 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:12.199 Submission is you have to define it. I would say 900 00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:15.239 submissions feminine, but I don't. I don't think to men specifically. 901 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:18.760 It would be like to any authority, right to any authority. 902 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:20.280 Yeah, are most authority men? 903 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.119 A lot of them are, but some would be men. 904 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:27.679 It would be too authority. Men are the class class. 905 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.119 The most authorities are men, and they are submitting to 906 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.679 that right that so, so it would be the idea. 907 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:36.639 Okay, you love semantics. 908 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.599 W No, it's called a debate. 909 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.760 I can do that too. If you want to, just 910 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:41.480 like mock you every time you stutter, we can. 911 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:43.840 It's just how debates work. I'm sorry. 912 00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:47.159 When they stutter is not part of debate. This is 913 00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:47.599 not rhetoric. 914 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:50.400 This is just being you're watching Oxford Union debate, they 915 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:51.079 make fun of each other. 916 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:56.440 I'm fine, you're making fun of each other. Okay, would 917 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:58.199 you like to have a productive conversation too, or do 918 00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:01.519 you want to just make If I'm having a great day, 919 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.960 that's fine, we can just continue to circle. 920 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.360 And how does this prove feminism is good for society? 921 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.039 Okay, so I already said I would reject the destruction 922 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:11.519 of nuclear family. I don't think it's central to most feminism. 923 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:14.760 I think most, especially central to sixteen. 924 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.920 It sounds like it was, But I would say most 925 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:19.280 Fourth Wave feminists, for example, are not very pro destruction 926 00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:21.239 of nuclear family. In fact, there's like an entire like 927 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.639 barefoot Pregnant movement within the Fourth Wave that is very 928 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.400 much about embracing being pregnant, being motherhood, and like promoting 929 00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:28.079 that as a good thing. 930 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.519 Is that the attitude that most feminists in society have. 931 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:34.679 I would say a lot of young feminists are directly. 932 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.679 The most I wouldn't know they're not. 933 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:40.039 Most also don't want to destroy the nuclear family. 934 00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:43.119 Well in academia, and most feminists want to get married 935 00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:43.800 and have kids. 936 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:48.320 Does this worldview promote in general in society, in academia 937 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.960 and in the corporate world, the destruction of the family, 938 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:52.760 or does it not that. 939 00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:56.880 It tends to promote it? Yeah, they want women to 940 00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:57.519 be mothers. 941 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.960 Who can aller feminism promotes when in society in. 942 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.719 General, I would say fourth wave feminism is very pro 943 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:04.719 mother Yeah. 944 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.519 I asked you about the majority of feminism to most 945 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:09.800 feminists are fourth wave institutionalized. 946 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.039 Yet most constitutional academics are. 947 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.280 Fourth wave there and they want people to have kids. Yes, 948 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:15.079 they're not anti. 949 00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:18.039 Natalists, some of them are, but most of them institutions. 950 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.679 Yes, No, that's crazy. 951 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:21.840 I don't know what to tell you. I've been reading lots. 952 00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:23.800 Of I've been in academy. I've been an institute too. 953 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.400 I've never met a feminist in academ or institutions who 954 00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.639 thinks that there should be more people and more kids. 955 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.079 They all believe in depopulation, the ones that I've. 956 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.559 Met, that's crazy. I've just met lots of feminists that 957 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.320 don't believe that. And regardless those feminists who who are 958 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.159 like basically death cult feminists. I'm not interested in advocating 959 00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:39.760 for the worldview. 960 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.199 That's fine. 961 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:40.880 I don't have to own that. 962 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.719 But the history of feminists, like you don't have to 963 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:46.559 most Protestant most feminism, right, So you've got a nuanced feminism, 964 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:47.719 I guess, is your take, right? 965 00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:51.400 I just have like a pretty traditional like fourth wave feminism. 966 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:54.760 Okay, so but it's not historic feminism, right or is 967 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:55.400 it first wave? 968 00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:58.360 It's fourth wave. So it's tied to history, of course, 969 00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.039 because there's way it is history. Yeah, but the waves. 970 00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:03.760 But the essentials of the waves is that they're I've 971 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:06.519 never ever said that feminism isn't tied to history. You've 972 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:07.320 just made that up. 973 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.440 I think we could go back about twenty minutes, so 974 00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:11.920 you can do what I do, and we go back 975 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.159 twenty minutes. When you said that the history doesn't matter 976 00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:15.119 for your. 977 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:17.559 Definition, it doesn't matter. You can hold you. 978 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.960 For just literally you have double thinking. Have you read 979 00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:21.679 nineteen eighty four? 980 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:23.400 You can hold right. 981 00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:25.440 You know what double think is is the ability to 982 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:27.079 contradict within a couple of minutes. 983 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:30.000 I didn't contradict. If you remember, we can roll back 984 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:31.800 the tape. We were talking about defense. 985 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:33.320 I think definitions are wrong. 986 00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:35.320 Finish my thought or are you just gonna interrupt. 987 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:36.360 Me because I'm trying to Can I. 988 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:36.840 Finish my thought? 989 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.239 Trying to hone in on I thought this weird mistake 990 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:41.280 is because it's weird, guys. 991 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.840 If we can at least we'll let the insults go. 992 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.079 If you guys want to insult each other, we'll allow that, 993 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:48.519 but at least let each other finish. Okay, their thoughts 994 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:48.920 go ahead. 995 00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.239 Okay. The reason that we went into the history and 996 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:53.840 why I said I don't care about the history is 997 00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:56.519 I was asking for a functional definition so we could 998 00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:00.000 move past that part of the conversation. I always acknowledg 999 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.039 that history was part of the feminist movement, and it's 1000 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:02.719 tied to I. 1001 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:05.280 Reject that there is a definition divorce from history. 1002 00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.320 I've never said that there's a definition divorce from history. 1003 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.639 I said, I don't figure you that. I don't need 1004 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.800 the history lesson. I doubt need. You got to let 1005 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:16.119 me finish. 1006 00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.760 You ask me, because you're lying. You asked you. You said, 1007 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.480 divorce from history? What is your definition? That's what you said. 1008 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:23.880 Yeah, I don't like thetan. 1009 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:25.559 Thank you. So you just contradicted yourself. 1010 00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.639 No, I did contradict myself a machine of You're desperate. 1011 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.960 You're so desperate, You're like, God, how do I get 1012 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.280 this win? I asked for you just stop giving me 1013 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.639 all of the history and just give me a definition 1014 00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:37.039 so we. 1015 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.000 Can know that there is a definition divorce from history 1016 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:40.800 and you just admitted that. 1017 00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:43.880 You know, you don't have the brain capacity to define 1018 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.360 something without a five minute monologue. 1019 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:47.760 About You just admitted you can't do that. 1020 00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:50.800 Define Israel, are you going to go back three thousand years? 1021 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.599 Yes, because it's an ancient historical nation. 1022 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.880 So you can't define Israel without giving me a ten 1023 00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:57.320 minute moment. 1024 00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.920 It's a false analogy because feminism is a modernist movement. 1025 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.199 It's a modern movement that is not an ancient civilization. Matter, 1026 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:06.159 it does matter. You're just saying it doesn't matter. 1027 00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:09.719 Just shows your lack time is not all a false analogy? 1028 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.960 Extend you melting down right now because you contradicted. 1029 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.679 Yourself melting down to you said that you're twenty five 1030 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:18.159 years of debate history and you can't and you can't 1031 00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:19.079 get a single fallace. 1032 00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.119 Ok, you're melting down, Spiral. 1033 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.159 How is that a false analogy? How is it a 1034 00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:24.079 false analogy? Jay? 1035 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.840 Because it's a modern movement, it's not an ancient civilization. 1036 00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:28.840 What does that have to do with anything when it 1037 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.480 comes to comparing contradicted your definition and. 1038 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.320 In debates contradictions. 1039 00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:35.079 What may the false analogy? 1040 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.159 How is that how you lose the debate? Correct? How 1041 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:38.760 is it contradicting is where you. 1042 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.719 You debate and define Israel without giving me the centuries 1043 00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:42.800 of history. Is that what you're telling me? 1044 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:44.239 I didn't say that. You just said that. 1045 00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:46.760 You said it's a false analogy. You said the false analogy. 1046 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:47.760 I've never said that. 1047 00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:52.000 You said that. You're you're yapping because you got caught. 1048 00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.360 I didn't get caught. 1049 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:57.679 You did again, you said that history, you said history 1050 00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.920 doesn't matter. Give me your definition, and then you just 1051 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.559 said history matters. It's part of the definition. 1052 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.519 I did contradicted you not say history matters as part 1053 00:43:05.559 --> 00:43:08.559 of you know, yes you did. Part of debating. Part 1054 00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:12.840 of debating is holding frame? Right would you agree? 1055 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:17.480 Like when you did that, is that holding frame or 1056 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:17.840 what is that? 1057 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.840 No, that was making fun of you, obviously, So part 1058 00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:22.199 of debating is holding frame. 1059 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:25.440 Like putting dogs in your mouth? Is that holding frame? 1060 00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:28.360 I don't know, that's funny, Like, yeah, we're all laughing 1061 00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:31.599 about it, Yes, laughing at you kind of the same thing. 1062 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:35.679 That's kind of what performers do, right, Yeah, So part 1063 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:36.719 of debating is holding. 1064 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.360 Is any of thats going to prove that feminists was 1065 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:39.000 good for society? 1066 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.360 Because you can't get there because you're still you make 1067 00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:46.360 my case. I'm not making your case again, just an 1068 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:46.960 ad home. 1069 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:49.239 You love fallacies, that's good. 1070 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.400 My favorite thing about you is that you cite fallacies constantly. 1071 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.519 You don't know what they mean, and you can't define 1072 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:54.920 them properly. 1073 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:56.840 How history is not part of feminism? 1074 00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:03.519 Is fouse analogy to compare Israel? Defining Israel because it's. 1075 00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:09.159 An ancient state. Feminism is a modern political, social revolutionary movement. 1076 00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:10.000 They don't compare. 1077 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.880 So why does the extent of the land of history 1078 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:14.079 make them disnalogous? 1079 00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.039 You've already lost the debate because you admitted that the 1080 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:20.639 definition can't be divorced from the history, and then you 1081 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:24.679 said the opposite. That means you've massively contradicted yourself within 1082 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:25.559 the last five minutes. 1083 00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:27.960 Again, you're just making it up. I'm glad that the 1084 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.440 made up nor heard you all is Jay just lost 1085 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.840 the debate because you're strawm ating me and putting words 1086 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:37.599 in my mouth that didn't happen. Wow, I'm really good 1087 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.440 at debating. Do you want to go back to the 1088 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:40.360 actual conversation? 1089 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:40.960 Sure? 1090 00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.480 Okay, So why is it falsely analogous when you're saying 1091 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.719 that to define words you must include the entire history 1092 00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.320 to define the word. Why is it dis analogous to 1093 00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.400 compare feminism to Israel. I asked you to define feminism, 1094 00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.639 and I asked you to define Israel, and I asked 1095 00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:59.239 you if you could define his without the three centuries 1096 00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:01.920 of history, and you said, well, it's different. 1097 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:03.760 It's a false analogy, false analogy. Why is it a 1098 00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:08.639 false analogy because they're two totally different things. And you 1099 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:12.440 already admitted that feminism is a historical movement and that 1100 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.000 it can and can't be divorced from the history, So 1101 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:17.800 is Israel. That's making my point. 1102 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:19.480 You goof us, No, it's not. 1103 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:23.559 I'm saying you can obviously define Israel without going through 1104 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.519 three centuries, which you agreed to. That's why you don't 1105 00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:30.519 false analogy, because you don't define Israel with the three centuries. 1106 00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:32.800 Because it's just it's just long. Ancient. 1107 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:36.199 Modern feminism only has one hundred years, So I can 1108 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:37.840 give the history of that, but I can't give the 1109 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.920 history of Israel to define it because it's too long. Essentially, 1110 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.800 that's your argument, that's what Yes, that is your argument. 1111 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.960 It is not falsely analogous. And also, comparing two different 1112 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.239 things is the point of fucking en that you talk. 1113 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.039 It makes my whole case here that feminism is a 1114 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.559 net negative for society. Thank you for representing. 1115 00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:57.079 All you're doing is making me be like, maybe the 1116 00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:58.639 rad friends are right and men got to be out 1117 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.760 of power because they cannot keep if this is what 1118 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:02.599 like two masters philosophy? 1119 00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.239 Right, you literally contradicted yourself with that. 1120 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:08.400 I think, right, don't go to college, guys, You're gonna 1121 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:09.840 end up like, it's not good. 1122 00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:11.880 I don't recommend people go to college, by the way, 1123 00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.280 because you are the people that teach at college. So 1124 00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:17.639 you're actually you're like the college professors I debated the women. 1125 00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:20.480 I debated, you're like them, So they should go to 1126 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:22.519 college if you want them to be in your position. 1127 00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:25.360 Right, No, if they end up anything like you, they 1128 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:28.679 should definitely not go to college. You're like, I had 1129 00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:31.079 a philosophy degree and I don't know what stallasies are. 1130 00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.320 Did I say that? Was that a cut down? 1131 00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:36.719 Yeah? 1132 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:38.280 Good one. Try again. 1133 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:41.599 This would be a perfect moment to read a couple 1134 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.800 of chats. Here we have Kat, who gifted fifty memberships. 1135 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.000 Thank you so much, Kat, Guys, w's in the chat 1136 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.320 for Kat. Thank for the gifted fifty whatever memberships. Robert Tanner, 1137 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:53.440 thank for the gifted fifty whatever memberships. Thank you so much. 1138 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:56.719 We also have Rachel Wilson in the building thing for 1139 00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:57.960 the gifted five memberships. 1140 00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:58.559 Really appreciate it. 1141 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.079 And then we have a couple of chats coming in 1142 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.920 here through the stream labs. Let me get those pulled 1143 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.000 up if you guys want to get a message in. 1144 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.800 It's uh ninety nine dollars and up we have Intel Wild. 1145 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:11.519 It's coming in as a TTS. 1146 00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:15.599 Wild donated one hundred dollars. Not so bright. Do you 1147 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:18.400 like BDSM because you are getting spanked by j. 1148 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.719 Classic when you can't defeat a woman, you just have 1149 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:23.679 to sexually when. 1150 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:25.719 You do the dongs in your mouth like that? Is 1151 00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:28.800 that a good example what you're talking about? So you 1152 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:29.800 put dongs in your mouth? 1153 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.880 It's funny you can't defeat a woman without sexually degrading 1154 00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:34.119 her and then making a joke like when you put 1155 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:34.719 dogs in your mouth? 1156 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:38.119 Does that sexually degrading by yourself? Okay? Right, So it's 1157 00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:39.559 all subjective like relativism. 1158 00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:41.320 Usually you can make jokes about yourself that. 1159 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.400 You believe in relativism too. Yeah, I do really is 1160 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:45.239 it self refuting? 1161 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:46.079 Nope. 1162 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:48.639 Is relativism true. 1163 00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:51.159 Depends on what you mean by true? 1164 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:52.719 Is any Is everything relative? 1165 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.280 Yes, but that doesn't mean it's like subjective. 1166 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.960 It means the same thing. It doesn't mean it does 1167 00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:02.400 something being totally relative means that it is subjective. 1168 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:06.639 No, that's I'm sorry. That is like a philosophy. 1169 00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:08.800 Want to list it's correct philosophy one on one you 1170 00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.639 would learn that if something is completely relative, then it's 1171 00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.599 purely subjective. It's the same. No, yes, it is. 1172 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.760 You're conflating subjectivism to cultural relativism. 1173 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:20.840 At best, I know the difference between the opposite of relativism. 1174 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.760 Your position is the opposite relative. You've already now that 1175 00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:25.760 you've admitted that everything is relative, What. 1176 00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:28.119 Do you think? What do you think it is opposite 1177 00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:29.760 of relative stemic relativism. 1178 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.039 There's cultural relativism. There's ethical relativism. 1179 00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:33.719 That's broadly the opposite of relativism. 1180 00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:37.559 Everything is relative to your vantage point, your perspective, perspect No, 1181 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:38.880 it's not, you're an idiot. 1182 00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:39.880 It's absolutism. 1183 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.519 It's not a Relativism is not absolutism. 1184 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.880 No, the opposite of relativism is more it's objectivism. 1185 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:50.880 No, it is the idiots. You don't never had you. 1186 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:51.360 I don't know. 1187 00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:52.760 That's crazy. 1188 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:55.679 I've debated all the topics philosophers. 1189 00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:58.320 And you I didn't expect that you should. Definitely. 1190 00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:01.280 The opposite of relativism is is objectivism. 1191 00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:02.400 It's absolutism. 1192 00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.360 It means the same thing, no reality, Yes it does, 1193 00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.840 it does not. Do you have a problem with words 1194 00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.199 that you think that two different words can't mean the 1195 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:10.679 same thing. 1196 00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:15.159 Okay. Moral absolutism is when you can apply things universally. 1197 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.320 Objectivism is that something can be like capital T true. 1198 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:20.920 You can use the thing, you can use the terminal. 1199 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:25.480 You're a Yes, they are moral objectivism. What is that? 1200 00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:28.400 Moral objectivism is believing that there's like a capital T 1201 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:30.400 true confined. That's not the same thing. 1202 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.199 No, no, it's not moral objectivism. You don't know what you're 1203 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:38.400 talking about. Moral objectivism is that there are moral absolutes. 1204 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:43.159 It's that simple. No, yes, what do you mean? 1205 00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.159 No, it's crazy moral. 1206 00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:47.760 So now she wants to run at water. 1207 00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:50.400 No, I'm not running. I'm actually just i'm gobsmacks. 1208 00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.280 Yeah, right, because I'm genuine. 1209 00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:55.119 Because you have a basically student, you. 1210 00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:58.039 Have us essentially you have an elementary school level education, 1211 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.599 and you're actually debating people who actually which is philosophy? 1212 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.119 Is crazy because despite my little education, you still don't 1213 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:08.880 know what relativism is versus like absolutism and objectivism. That's fine. 1214 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:12.239 I've debated the dude from the Objectivist Foundation, the n 1215 00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:14.000 Rand Foundation, so I'm pretty sure I know. 1216 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.039 Again, then you would know that it's a position. 1217 00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:20.360 Do you understand that a word can mean different things 1218 00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:22.800 in different context So if I say that something is 1219 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.800 morally objective, or that it's morally absolute, or that it's 1220 00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:30.119 not relative or subjective, it all means the same thing 1221 00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:36.599 even though it's different words. Did you know that that's crazy? Okay, 1222 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:38.920 that's crazy that words do you mean the same thing? 1223 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:39.360 Is crazy. 1224 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:41.920 That you don't have any concept of the philosophical compass 1225 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.880 is crazy the philosophical compass. 1226 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:47.679 Yes, so memes meme level philosophy. 1227 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:48.920 It's not memeless. 1228 00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:51.119 It is a meme. It's a means. It's a meme 1229 00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:53.960 level philosophy. Because you thought that words didn't mean the 1230 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.440 same thing. 1231 00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.960 Okay, we have a chat coming in here from Robert 1232 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:03.719 one Secon. Guys, let's get that pulled up there. 1233 00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:05.519 Thank you. Robert appreciate it. 1234 00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:09.639 Well, what donated two hundred dollars? Hey Brian comment on 1235 00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.440 this discussion. Bloomberg just reported two days ago that for 1236 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.480 the first time ever, white men are slightly now less 1237 00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:18.960 than half of board members are tests and P five 1238 00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:21.880 hundred companies progress on GDP. 1239 00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:25.760 Thank you, Robert. Do you guys want to discuss that or. 1240 00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:28.119 Not? 1241 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:30.960 I don't know if that's even true. If that's true, 1242 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:35.639 I feel neutrally about it. Okay, it depends on why 1243 00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:37.480 it's the case, right I think like white men in 1244 00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.719 general are being like pretty shittily treated by society right now. 1245 00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:42.840 I think there's like a fair bit of like persecution. 1246 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.360 So I suspect that the reasons behind that is bad, 1247 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:47.880 but maybe it's neutral. But probably it's bad, but maybe 1248 00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:48.440 it's neutral. 1249 00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:50.800 All right, we have three other chats, unless Jay, you 1250 00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:51.559 wanted to weigh in on that. 1251 00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:54.679 I agree that's bad. Yeah, sure, we have whatever fan, 1252 00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:55.840 Thank you whatever. 1253 00:51:55.880 --> 00:52:01.239 Fan fanuated one hundred dollars. I'm enjoying barbecue cooking her 1254 00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:04.280 puppy cheeks better than Gordon Ramsey like a donkey. 1255 00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.519 Okay, they like my cheeks, that's all I heard. 1256 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:12.199 We have you got cooked is what they said. I 1257 00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:13.480 know you can't hear something. 1258 00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:16.679 There was a nice one that came through about you. 1259 00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:18.880 I saw, all right, we. 1260 00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:22.440 Have grandma sweaters coming in here in just a moment. 1261 00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.320 Grandma's Grandma's sweaters. 1262 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.199 Excuse me, Grandma's sweaters donated one hundred dollars erudites. 1263 00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:31.400 That makes no sense. 1264 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:35.280 Feminism is a populist movement where each rep in history 1265 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:40.719 interprets the definition feminism whole ancient beliefs and utilized history 1266 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:42.480 as foundation for their beliefs. 1267 00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:47.400 Yep, okay, just it's not a refutation of anything that 1268 00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.239 I've said. 1269 00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:51.679 That you can't understand me. 1270 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:54.440 I'm right here. But if you want to keep fighting 1271 00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:55.239 like something. 1272 00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.280 You're arguing in yourself in your head, it's like a 1273 00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:59.440 hamster will running and you're not actually in the debate. 1274 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:03.480 I've the whole chat is times. I did a lot 1275 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:03.800 of Later. 1276 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.440 Finally, I bet you couldn't restate my internal critique, could 1277 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:09.079 you of me? Yeah? 1278 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.239 It was something about how you think that I'm like 1279 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.360 self defeating because you think that my definitions necessarily like 1280 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:17.159 contradict each other, which they don't. It was just a 1281 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:17.880 false economy. 1282 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:21.039 Now, that wasn't the internal critique, but good. 1283 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.119 Try Okay, do you want to remind me get more? 1284 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:28.599 Yeah, we have, Rachel Wilson, Thank you, Rachel appreciated, Thank. 1285 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:31.679 You hundred dollars. The most merciful thing that the large 1286 00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:34.320 family does to one of its infant members is kill it. 1287 00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:38.880 Margaret Sang, a founder of Planned Parenthood, First wave feminist 1288 00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:42.079 feminism is intrinsically anti natalists. 1289 00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:43.679 Yep, I just disagree. 1290 00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:45.880 Okay, good job, thank you. Rachel Wilson. 1291 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:46.599 Appreciate that. 1292 00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:50.039 It's almost like there's lots of camps to a large movement, so. 1293 00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:51.880 It's elastic exactly, thank you. 1294 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.840 Yep, to some degree. Yeah, we would agree that there's 1295 00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:56.880 hadoginity within any movement. 1296 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.639 So it can be defined the way you need it 1297 00:53:58.679 --> 00:53:59.920 at whatever point in the day. 1298 00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:03.000 I defined it really clearly, like very. 1299 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:05.000 Broadly, so that you could move it later. 1300 00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:07.559 And why did you agree for work? Why did you 1301 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:08.039 agree to it? 1302 00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:10.000 Because I was setting you up to lose later. That's why. 1303 00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:12.559 Oh, it was an eighty jess plan. And then it 1304 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:14.679 took you forty five minutes to define it later. 1305 00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:17.159 I just let you sink your own dig, your own. 1306 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:20.159 Hole, whatever you need to tell yourself that I. 1307 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:22.000 Bet you ninety five percent of the chat's gonna agree. 1308 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:24.920 With me that this because everybody's dumb. 1309 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.480 Oh really, everybody in the chat's dumb. Thank you. 1310 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:29.480 Oh I didn't say that. I said I'm sure chatters 1311 00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:30.559 agree with you. I just don't. 1312 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:32.920 But you think that my arguments are dumb, So they're dumb. 1313 00:54:33.320 --> 00:54:35.599 I'm not super interested in what chatters have to say. 1314 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.079 Viewers are a very different brief. 1315 00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:40.079 Optics, and who won the debate is judged by the audience. 1316 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:44.000 Yeah, but the audience isn't just chatters, right, it's also viewers, 1317 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.119 and these are not the same person. 1318 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:47.840 I bet the comments are going to say otherwise. 1319 00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:51.559 I'm sure the comments on a very right leaning, decently 1320 00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:54.599 Eastern orthodox that has already accepted most of your presuppositions 1321 00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:57.079 the show are going to agree with you. Right leaning, 1322 00:54:57.360 --> 00:54:59.760 right leaning. Yeah, I'm sure that they're going to agree 1323 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:01.559 with you, But that doesn't mean that you've won, right, 1324 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:03.800 just like if you if I put this on my 1325 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.119 channel and then all of my left leaning audiences that 1326 00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.119 I won, that's not evidence that I won. Obviously, Are 1327 00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:11.960 you sure? Yeah? Obviously that would be like a super. 1328 00:55:11.719 --> 00:55:14.360 Sybase debase for audiences. 1329 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:17.159 Sure, did you listen to anything. I just said. What's 1330 00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.239 a selection bias? 1331 00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:21.039 Well, it's when you choose the evidence based on what 1332 00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:21.400 you want. 1333 00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:24.440 It's not a selection bias. That's called Well, you're you're. 1334 00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:27.159 About audiences and like, my audience would like my stuff, 1335 00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:29.199 So if they like me, then I think I won 1336 00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:31.679 because my aunorts like me. So I selectively chose the audience. 1337 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:32.400 Is what you're saying. 1338 00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.639 No, okay, no, So it's you know. 1339 00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:38.039 What You're right, That's what it is. 1340 00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:40.519 It's crazy. So basically, what any of these words mean, 1341 00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:41.880 you've really impressed. 1342 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:45.000 People just means that selection. 1343 00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:48.039 Science means that, like a naturally arising population that you 1344 00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:51.280 were testing might end up having some emergent trait that 1345 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.360 you think is a construct true of that group, when 1346 00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.119 actually you've already set up the prerequisite methodology to find 1347 00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:59.440 that trait within it. So my audience is going to 1348 00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.039 like my ship more and your audience will. 1349 00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:02.280 Like literally what I just said. 1350 00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:06.760 Yeah, but the issue is that you were defining that's 1351 00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:08.679 what I just said. No, you said that, that's what 1352 00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:09.519 I just defined. 1353 00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:12.920 You idiot. No, you're stupid, Like I literally just defined 1354 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:14.000 the same thing that you said. 1355 00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:15.920 Do you think that when you call me stupid. You win? 1356 00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:18.800 What's a fact? What's the purpose factually demonstrating? What is 1357 00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:19.239 the case? 1358 00:56:19.639 --> 00:56:20.880 Again? Do you think winning? 1359 00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.599 You literally give the same definition I did. I don't care. No. 1360 00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.039 The issue was that you were doing the what's it called? 1361 00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:28.400 When I thought you knew the fallacies? I thought you 1362 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.199 knew the fallacies? 1363 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:31.199 I don't, But you don't. 1364 00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:33.400 You don't because you didn't know what internal critique was either. 1365 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.599 Do you remember what the word is for when you 1366 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:40.159 selectively pick your cherry pick your evidence. That's the word 1367 00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:40.360 for that. 1368 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:43.000 Well, there's two fallacies. There's the sharpshooter fallacy and the 1369 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.159 gambler's fallacy, So you might be referring to either of 1370 00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:47.639 those cherry picking fallacy. 1371 00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:50.400 It's not cherry picking fallacy, it's doesn't even know the fallacy? 1372 00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:51.239 I do? 1373 00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.440 Yes, what's the gamblers fallacy? If you know the fellaws, 1374 00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.519 what's the what's the gambler's fallacy? 1375 00:56:57.679 --> 00:56:58.320 I don't know. 1376 00:56:58.760 --> 00:56:59.840 You just said you knew the fellasi. 1377 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.639 Welcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast, where we try 1378 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.920 to make sense of the man you guys totally butchered 1379 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:39.880 that okay, where we try to make sense of the 1380 00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:43.079 modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. 1381 00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:44.039 Go ahead. 1382 00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:47.239 My name is Jimbob. I'm a political cartoonist. You can 1383 00:59:47.239 --> 00:59:50.039 find my comics at Made by Jimbob on Instagram. I'm 1384 00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:53.159 also a live streamer at Made by Jimbob at YouTube. 1385 00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:55.599 Age did you say age forty four or forty four? 1386 00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:58.400 All right? Welcome, Welcome Jay? What about you? 1387 00:59:58.920 --> 00:59:59.119 Yeah? 1388 00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:02.280 Jay? Do I do comedy, I do media, I do 1389 01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:05.800 geopolitical analysis, hosts Alex Jones show for the last five years, 1390 01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:08.280 right for the Sam Hid Show. Uh. And I'm a 1391 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:12.639 YouTuber and I'm forty six forty six all right? And 1392 01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:17.480 then education. I did undergrad in philosophy in Kentucky. And 1393 01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:21.519 then my grad work is psychological warfare in literature. Was 1394 01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:24.840 that at a university? Yeah? Murray State, got it? Okay? 1395 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:25.960 Is that English? 1396 01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:27.320 What English? 1397 01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.559 Is that? It was your Masters of Arts in English. 1398 01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:33.239 It's English and philosophy degree blossity cognate what you said 1399 01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:37.320 the psychological warfare? Yeah, my focus in grad work was 1400 01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:40.639 on psychological warfare and media. What and so are you 1401 01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:44.239 an expert in psychological warfare? I don't know about expert, 1402 01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:47.599 but you're you, I mean studied, you've studied it. Yeah, 1403 01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:48.480 I'm published on that. 1404 01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:53.000 Okay, period, tell us how do you do psychological warfare? 1405 01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:56.159 Can you tell us that? Well? I studied doing I 1406 01:00:56.199 --> 01:01:00.039 study the way that James Bond was used in the 1407 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:05.199 Cold War as a symbol for Western like geopolitics, Western 1408 01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:09.280 liberal economic theory. So you can use fictional characters as 1409 01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:11.440 a way to do culture war. 1410 01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:16.880 Okay, got it? So like psychological warfare through media? Yes, okay, 1411 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:21.280 interest fiction movies okay, God three books on Hollywood? Do 1412 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:24.719 you think, like like Titanic was psychological warfare? 1413 01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:28.880 Some blockbusters are? 1414 01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:31.480 But what about Taylor Swift? 1415 01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:35.280 Taylor Swift? Uh, well, NATO said they weren't to use 1416 01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:39.239 Taylor Swift for psyops, So maybe what about top Gun? 1417 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:42.639 Top Gun actually was, Yeah, there was money. Reagan put 1418 01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:45.239 money into military recruitment using the top Gun. 1419 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:49.840 So yes, rock and Roll. What's like the number one film? 1420 01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:51.880 If you if you have that, maybe not the number one, 1421 01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.239 If you have the point to a film that that 1422 01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:56.960 was used as psychological warfare, what what do you think 1423 01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:57.440 it would be? 1424 01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:01.079 Probably the best example what I focused on was the 1425 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:04.960 James Bond franchise. That's like the best example and it 1426 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:08.239 was explicitly done for that purpose. Got it? Okay, cool, 1427 01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:09.320 Jim Bob, what about you? 1428 01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:15.119 Nine years with my wife? Happy Mother's Day, Megan, let's 1429 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.239 get some w's for all the mothers in the chat. 1430 01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:20.960 Happy Mother's Day and definitely the longest relationship. 1431 01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:24.719 All right, Jay? What about what about you married for 1432 01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:27.760 five years and we dated for about four before that, 1433 01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.639 So I've been with Jamie for the past nine years. 1434 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:34.239 And yeah, do you have any kids? Jay? We do 1435 01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:38.440 not have kids now. And Jim Bob YEA three? Is it? So? Jay? 1436 01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:43.719 Are you you're an Orthodox Christian? Is it okay to 1437 01:02:43.800 --> 01:02:46.920 do that shit if you're a. 1438 01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:51.440 Christian or especially an Orthodox Christian? Jim Bob, Jay, can 1439 01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:54.760 you do? I mean, I think there's that levity. There's 1440 01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:57.920 room for, you know, things between the husband and a wife. 1441 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.840 So there are some lines. I don't know that there's 1442 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:04.039 an easy, hard set line as to what that is 1443 01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:07.039 that maybe a husband or wife have to determine. But 1444 01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.199 I do think that there might be a danger in 1445 01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:11.960 this sitsue. I'm not saying this about you, but like 1446 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:16.480 there could be a situation where like if you requested that, 1447 01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:19.800 like that could put the dude in a legal situation, 1448 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.880 you know what I mean? Like not that you would 1449 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:25.119 necessarily do that, but you might say, oh, look, you 1450 01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:26.559 know if you guys have a fight, right, like, well, 1451 01:03:26.599 --> 01:03:29.599 look what he did to me. So it's just like, 1452 01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:32.960 I think there's a lot of reasons and ways why 1453 01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:36.280 it's just not safe for a dude necessarily to get 1454 01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:40.719 into that. And I would say that, yeah, like from 1455 01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:45.440 a religious perspective, it's odd. I don't know. 1456 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:49.360 I would add that if that type of thing continued, 1457 01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:51.840 Let's say you got married and you had children, it 1458 01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:55.719 would certainly be confusing for the child if they were 1459 01:03:55.719 --> 01:04:00.880 to find out the way daddy loves mommy actually is harmful. 1460 01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:06.199 It might actually produce the scenario where the children to 1461 01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:07.840 hurt them they think that's love. 1462 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:11.079 Well, I'm so sorry to enter Jack. 1463 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:14.760 I feel like there's a way to work around that, 1464 01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:18.800 as in maybe have like a boundary, and that's something 1465 01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.400 you've probably discussed with your partners, like, hey, as long 1466 01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:24.760 as it's in an area that's concealable, like under the collarbones, 1467 01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:27.239 it's fair game. But like your face, something that you 1468 01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:30.079 have to use and see every single day, maybe that 1469 01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:33.159 can be spoken about. It doesn't necessarily mean like punch 1470 01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:34.280 me in my face. 1471 01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:34.920 You know, I don't know. 1472 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:38.360 I mean then I would say that that's actually then 1473 01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:42.039 practicing sort of some level of deception and withhold, which 1474 01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:44.280 is another practice that might be into question. 1475 01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:46.800 Like not telling your kids your kinks is the deception? 1476 01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:50.119 Well, I mean, if you're, if you're, it doesn't change 1477 01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:53.400 the fact that your husband or the father you know, 1478 01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:57.519 your father is harming what's definitionally harming your mother? 1479 01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:00.280 Do you would you though, like for other kings, because 1480 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:02.679 this is obviously like a pretty extreme kink. What kinks 1481 01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:04.639 are allowed in Eastern Orthodox I actually don't know. 1482 01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:08.440 I would know what's considered a kink and what's considered 1483 01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:10.320 just like creative. 1484 01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:12.000 Rilla sex is going to be like a kink, so 1485 01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:13.199 that can you piss on each other? 1486 01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.039 I'm just gonna guess no, I would say that would 1487 01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:20.079 be a perversion. That's a perversion. 1488 01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:21.280 What about oral sex? 1489 01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:25.920 I'm not sure what a priest, I've never had that conversation. 1490 01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:27.719 Do you have to tell your kids about it? Or 1491 01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:29.400 are you being deceptive to your kids if you don't 1492 01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:31.480 tell them about your kink practice with your. 1493 01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:34.440 Well, I mean you don't have to be explicit with 1494 01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:38.599 what's considered sexuality, But what's considered sexuality would still have 1495 01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:43.199 a standard underneath a Christian view, and then what's considered 1496 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:46.119 a perversion would also have that. But outside of Christianity, 1497 01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:48.000 there's no such thing as perversion. 1498 01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:51.360 Outside of so non Christians can't do perverse things. 1499 01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:53.320 Well, they can do it, but they don't have I'm 1500 01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.039 saying their worldview. They can't tell you what's perverse, what's proper, 1501 01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.719 what's normal. It's all just kind of like preference. If 1502 01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:03.519 you feel something from something, and you feel good from 1503 01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:08.920 someone doing something otherwise, let's say perverse in another paradigm. 1504 01:06:09.199 --> 01:06:12.760 You can't really say it's wrong or right or good 1505 01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:13.320 or bad. 1506 01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.599 It's just always saying. Secular people can't like weigh in on. 1507 01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:18.320 Yeah, they can't. Really, there's no standard. 1508 01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:19.039 There, gotcha. 1509 01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:22.159 I guess I'm not really thinking about children when I'm 1510 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.760 doing this. I don't really have like a future of 1511 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.679 having children, so I guess I never thought of it 1512 01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:28.400 in that way. 1513 01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:29.400 I can see that. 1514 01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:34.440 Yeah, I think maybe if I did mature a little, 1515 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:36.679 grow up a little, maybe it wouldn't be a thing. 1516 01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:40.800 But I have no way of Yeah, foreseeing the future, 1517 01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:41.400 do you think. 1518 01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:42.559 You'll want kids when you get older? 1519 01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:45.920 Maybe I feel like, I'm twenty four now, that's still 1520 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:50.239 very young. But you know, women only have a period 1521 01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:53.559 of time where they can really decide and actually do it. 1522 01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.480 And as for now, my answer is now, who's going. 1523 01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:00.280 To take care of you later on life? 1524 01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:05.280 I know, I don't really think about the future that way. 1525 01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:07.480 I guess I. 1526 01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:11.360 Feel like that's kind of like I'm trying to find 1527 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:14.480 the words. I feel like that's a burden that the 1528 01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:18.440 children didn't ask for. You know, you shouldn't have kids 1529 01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:21.000 just because you want somebody to take care of you 1530 01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:21.719 and your old age. 1531 01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:23.159 That's the only reason. 1532 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:25.800 Well no, no, no, I know, And I'm not implying that. 1533 01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:29.000 I'm just saying that in general, I think there should 1534 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:32.159 be that that shouldn't even be an expectation. Is it 1535 01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:34.760 nice to have kids that take care of you when 1536 01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:38.360 you're old, Absolutely, that'd be nice, But that's not an 1537 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:40.440 expectation that should be set forth. 1538 01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:43.599 I don't think, well, yeah, yeah, it is a duty. 1539 01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:46.960 And also I don't think the reasoning using a reason, 1540 01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:50.480 I don't think that's a burden a kid asked for. Well, 1541 01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:53.480 from that logic, a kid didn't ask to be born 1542 01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:56.840 or to be to have the burden of learning a language, 1543 01:07:56.880 --> 01:08:01.440 properly schooling everything else you could put under that umbrella 1544 01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:05.719 of burdenship. I don't think people actually have a say 1545 01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.360 in a lot of times of what their burden is right, and. 1546 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:12.760 To respond to that is I like, for example, I 1547 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.079 do plan on taking care of my mother, and I 1548 01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:18.279 am an emt. I drop off old people, you know, 1549 01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:21.119 to their facilities all the time, and sometimes I look 1550 01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:23.159 at their ages and I'm like, wow, my mom's only 1551 01:08:23.199 --> 01:08:25.159 like six years younger than that, and these people are 1552 01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:26.319 like completely better ridden. 1553 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:28.960 And so I do. 1554 01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:31.199 I do think, like I am going to take care 1555 01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:35.399 of my mom, But just sometimes shit hits the fan 1556 01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:38.840 and you don't have that great relationship with your parents, 1557 01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:40.600 or maybe they're crappy parents. 1558 01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:42.279 And you feel like you owe them nothing. 1559 01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:44.239 And I know that that can lead into like, well, 1560 01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:46.319 they gave you life, they raise you, they fed you, 1561 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:47.920 they clothe you. But a lot of times it's not 1562 01:08:47.960 --> 01:08:48.720 even the case. 1563 01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:52.600 Yeah, it's not a universal rule, like there're gonna be exceptions, 1564 01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:55.479 but you wouldn't make the exceptions the universal rule because 1565 01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:58.520 there are exceptions. So I think most people's parents do 1566 01:08:59.319 --> 01:09:02.119 provide for them, and the expectation is that you would 1567 01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:05.199 then return the favor when they get older. But there 1568 01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:08.840 could be toxic people who are completely you know, dangerous 1569 01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:09.560 or something. 1570 01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:10.279 No for sure. 1571 01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:14.119 And you mentioned like duty a duty according to whom? 1572 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:16.760 I guess like for me, it's like I would do 1573 01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:20.520 it because growing up, it's like my life story. Growing up, 1574 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:22.960 my mom was a janitor for three different things. 1575 01:09:24.039 --> 01:09:24.880 Single mom. 1576 01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:29.000 Mostly I saw my dad like every third weekend. But 1577 01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:31.920 my mom worked basically on top of child support, worked 1578 01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:34.199 three jobs as a janitor for a college, a school, 1579 01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:38.279 and a church. And she put a lot of expectation. 1580 01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:38.920 For me to go to school. 1581 01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:41.479 And that's why, like, for example, I joined the military 1582 01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:43.359 so that I can get my school paid for because 1583 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:45.880 I didn't want to burden my mom with probably having 1584 01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:47.640 to pick a fourth or fifth job just to pay 1585 01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:50.680 my way through. And so to me, it's like genuine 1586 01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:53.640 like okay, I will take care of you because you've 1587 01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:55.520 you've raised me into the person that I am today. 1588 01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:58.960 And so I guess to circle back long story, shortcake, 1589 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:02.560 I guess what do you define as like duty? 1590 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:06.479 Like? What who a duty? According to him? 1591 01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:11.600 Well, I mean I I get my duties from an 1592 01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:16.960 orthodox Christian paradigm. I would say that absent that just 1593 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:20.000 like other standards, I don't think I don't think anyone 1594 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:22.079 has a duty outside of that worldview. 1595 01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:26.800 And for you, I mean that's yeah. I have a 1596 01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:29.760 similar take as Jim Bob. I mean, there are duties 1597 01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:32.039 that would be informed by the worldview that you have 1598 01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:35.439 or your upbringing, by your parents. And I mean again, 1599 01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:37.279 I think even if you have bad parents, you still 1600 01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:40.399 probably want to return the favor to some degree. I mean, 1601 01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:43.479 I was raised by a single mom, I had absentee dad, 1602 01:10:43.520 --> 01:10:46.000 but I would still take care of my dad. He's 1603 01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:48.199 in that health right now, so we try to help 1604 01:10:48.279 --> 01:10:50.880 him out as best we can. But I mean, I 1605 01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:55.560 think this is just an expectation that most civilizations, most 1606 01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:58.520 cultures had until we got to modernity, where you can 1607 01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:02.880 kind of be this individual with no ties, no boundaries, 1608 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.359 no expectations, no duties. So we're living this weird experiment 1609 01:11:07.560 --> 01:11:10.399 that it's a historical, it's weird. 1610 01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:14.079 So even the current family structure, usually it's our at 1611 01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:17.560 least Jay and I are our share a worldview where 1612 01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:20.720 you kind of defend the family in a nuclear sense. 1613 01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:23.560 But then you go, wait a second, even that is 1614 01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.920 individualistic if you really think about it comparatively to other 1615 01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:31.279 cultures or historically where there was like a big generational 1616 01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:34.920 family and now you have this unit, and now inside 1617 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:37.439 the unit, now you have even more individual units. And 1618 01:11:37.479 --> 01:11:43.520 I think when he says modernity like individualism, materialism, pursuing 1619 01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:46.039 wants and desires above all things. Go live your life, 1620 01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:48.439 do what you want to do, people are kind of 1621 01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:53.239 drawn into a mindset. It basically inherit a mindset that 1622 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:58.239 justifies just their own personal pursuits. And this is where 1623 01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:00.239 you get into these issues of like, well, what's is 1624 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:04.239 there any obligation to the collective at all? At this point, 1625 01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:07.880 it's actually hard to see, uh, for a lot of 1626 01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:12.359 people that that there's something beyond their own life and 1627 01:12:12.359 --> 01:12:13.880 what they want. Is there anything? 1628 01:12:14.199 --> 01:12:16.840 Is there anything else that's really interesting? I'm sure. Are 1629 01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.119 you guys on pretty opposed to capitalism? 1630 01:12:20.279 --> 01:12:20.479 No? 1631 01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:23.439 I mean that's like an economic system to a degree, 1632 01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:26.439 like is there what what economic system do you guys prefer? 1633 01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:29.199 Like communism, like high regulation of markets. 1634 01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:34.560 I think capitalism it can be kind of like a tool. 1635 01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:38.520 It's like asking like if a hammer is wrong. I 1636 01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:43.039 think capitalism itself what it produces without any sort of 1637 01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.319 ethical paradigm that's guiding it is horrific. 1638 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:47.279 Sure. 1639 01:12:47.359 --> 01:12:49.439 So, Like the reason I'm asking is you talked about 1640 01:12:49.479 --> 01:12:52.319 like individualism and whatnot, which is very in many ways 1641 01:12:52.439 --> 01:12:54.760 what drives a lot of capitalism, right, is like individual 1642 01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:58.920 want and whims and materialism is pretty central to especially 1643 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:02.000 our modern day capitalism. So you're pretty opposed to capitalism. 1644 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:06.560 It's not the opposition to capitalism itself. Like I said, 1645 01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:10.279 you can oppose a number of things if it doesn't 1646 01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:13.840 have a guiding ethical principles. For instance, I'm not opposed 1647 01:13:13.880 --> 01:13:17.239 to people using their god given gifts in exchange for 1648 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:21.800 money or other things. That's just that's like an exchange 1649 01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:24.880 of your will and your and your labor. If that's 1650 01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:28.880 inside of a system you call capitalistic, then fine. But 1651 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:32.239 I think Jay will add that the complexity and the 1652 01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:36.640 implications of capitalism at a larger scale is beyond what 1653 01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:40.880 most people think consider uh favorable, Like you know what 1654 01:13:40.920 --> 01:13:42.439 I mean, Like it gets to some limit. 1655 01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:45.520 Yeah, so you guys would be before like a decent amount 1656 01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:48.479 of government regulation to ensure like some level of ethical 1657 01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:51.279 principle maintained by the capitalist structures. You guys kind of 1658 01:13:51.319 --> 01:13:54.000 want that government oversight obviously might not want to. 1659 01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:58.800 Right, because I mean, you have tariffs. Parives are a 1660 01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:01.680 way to protect the nation state and the people that 1661 01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:04.199 work in that nation state. So to get rid of 1662 01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:05.920 I didn't say it was the only purposes. So it's 1663 01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:08.319 a purpose. So you don't have to correct that because 1664 01:14:08.479 --> 01:14:11.640 it was just a sentence. You don't have to let 1665 01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:13.239 me know because I know what I'm talking about. You 1666 01:14:13.239 --> 01:14:16.119 ask me a question on to finish it. Okay, So 1667 01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:21.520 tariffs protect the workers of that nation and monarchies which 1668 01:14:21.560 --> 01:14:25.920 were patriarchy, they can be. They the ones in Western civilization. 1669 01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:29.680 They were in Western civilization just like ancient Israel. They 1670 01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:34.479 were patriarchal. Those protected the workers. So there has to 1671 01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:39.039 be some degree of structure and limitation to the to 1672 01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:42.680 the economy. So yes, a limited economic control. 1673 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.960 And guilds were kind of cool though, that's where that's the. 1674 01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:48.119 Purpose of guilds and tariffs is simwhere dow. 1675 01:14:48.199 --> 01:14:51.439 To the union on I guess similar. 1676 01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:54.760 The original purpose of unions was, yes, to guard against 1677 01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:58.600 monopoly capitalism. So to answer your question, monopoly capitalism, yes 1678 01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:02.359 is a problem. But the basic principles of Austrian economics 1679 01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:05.560 free market. I have a bigcoin shirt. No, it's not bad. 1680 01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:10.680 Okay, all right, this came from Rex. 1681 01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:15.920 Interesting how conversations will meander their way to different things. 1682 01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:18.680 Getting into the pre show notes, Why don't we start 1683 01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:22.199 with I will start with Sophia. So you said your 1684 01:15:22.239 --> 01:15:24.319 ex boyfriend. Is this the one you just broke up 1685 01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:26.640 with or a different one? Okay, ex boyfriend scammed you, 1686 01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:31.359 scammed you in many ways. He made fake stocking emails 1687 01:15:31.399 --> 01:15:33.640 to get you to move to San Diego with him. 1688 01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:38.000 Then he got you into OnlyFans and ultimately pimped you 1689 01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.319 out on only fans and took almost all of your money. 1690 01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:44.479 He put an put an MX card under your name, 1691 01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:48.520 He stole your social Security number, spent over twenty thousand dollars, 1692 01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.119 left you in debt, hacked all your socials and only fans, 1693 01:15:51.560 --> 01:15:54.000 and continues to do it to every other girl he 1694 01:15:54.079 --> 01:15:54.560 deals with. 1695 01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:56.359 So I guess what's the story there? 1696 01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:05.800 Yeah, I mean just from the beginning, the whole stalking emails. 1697 01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:08.560 I was living in Hawaii on my own, met him 1698 01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:12.239 on hinge when he was visiting Hawaii. We did long 1699 01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:15.960 distance for maybe like a month or two. I was 1700 01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:20.640 nineteen at the time, or nineteen or twenty at the time, 1701 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:26.840 very dumb, very delusional, and yeah, he sent me a 1702 01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:30.359 bunch of emails basically saying like, I know where you live. 1703 01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:32.439 You just walked in with your groceries. 1704 01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:35.399 I'm going to come up and you know, essay you 1705 01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:39.680 all the things very scary, very and it was him 1706 01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:42.439 the whole time. And I knew because after I moved 1707 01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:46.119 in with him in San Diego and all of that stuff, 1708 01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:48.439 I went through his computer and saw all of the 1709 01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:54.399 emails from different fake emails of him emailing me from 1710 01:16:54.760 --> 01:17:00.479 a number of emails. But that ultimately got me to 1711 01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:05.760 move from Hawaii to San Diego out of fear basically. Okay, 1712 01:17:07.239 --> 01:17:09.680 but yeah, the whole getting me to do OnlyFans thing, 1713 01:17:09.800 --> 01:17:11.680 he just said that he knew how to do it, 1714 01:17:11.760 --> 01:17:13.039 he knew how he was going to get me to 1715 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:13.600 make money. 1716 01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:15.159 And I mean, I was down. 1717 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:18.039 I'm not saying he forced me to do it, but 1718 01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:20.680 I am saying that he got me to do a 1719 01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:23.680 lot of things that I wouldn't have done at the 1720 01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:27.079 age that I was at or where I was at 1721 01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:27.600 at the time. 1722 01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:33.039 Wait, wouldn't have done absent what like if you say 1723 01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:35.359 there's a bunch of things I did at the time 1724 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:37.960 that I otherwise wouldn't have done other. 1725 01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:40.520 I wouldn't have put my entire body on the internet 1726 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:44.720 and done. 1727 01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:45.880 The things that he had me do on video. 1728 01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:50.000 If not, what is it persuasion? Is it a persuasion? 1729 01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:53.039 Yeah, it's it was that, And I I'm like, like 1730 01:17:53.079 --> 01:17:55.439 I said, like I know there'll be a huge argument 1731 01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:59.960 over forced and persuasion and you have a choice and whatnot. 1732 01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:02.000 Like I said, I. 1733 01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:07.199 Was delusional and I was very young, and I wasn't sticking. 1734 01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:08.079 Up for myself. 1735 01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:13.960 Seeing as how you're not with him now. And this 1736 01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:16.359 is like an honest question that comes from like I'm 1737 01:18:16.399 --> 01:18:19.520 just I want to know. There's no like loaded meaning 1738 01:18:21.439 --> 01:18:23.640 do you do you choose to plan on stopping at 1739 01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:24.119 any point? 1740 01:18:25.319 --> 01:18:26.000 No, like this. 1741 01:18:28.399 --> 01:18:30.039 Like it is what it is. 1742 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:34.199 But I'm a whole different person now because of it. 1743 01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:36.399 So like I said, I wouldn't have done those things 1744 01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:38.359 when I was nineteen and twenty, but I did it 1745 01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:42.199 and now I'm full blown doing it, like I didn't 1746 01:18:42.199 --> 01:18:45.960 stop doing only fans when I left him because like 1747 01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:48.239 to be fair, like the money's very good. 1748 01:18:48.439 --> 01:18:49.680 I like working from home. 1749 01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:52.520 I like doing what I do now, and I am 1750 01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:55.319 doing it to my extent now I'm doing it to 1751 01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:56.760 my comfortability. 1752 01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:00.279 Now I'm in charge, like on your own terms. Basically, yeah, 1753 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:00.800 I wasn't. 1754 01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:02.800 I wasn't in charge in any way. 1755 01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:05.680 Like he had my passwords, he had my everything, He 1756 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:10.359 sent me things to do, he made like I say, 1757 01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:13.439 he made me get on OnlyFans Live because he did 1758 01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:16.359 like he put me in the room, he shut the door, 1759 01:19:16.479 --> 01:19:19.159 he turned the camera like he made me go live. 1760 01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:21.880 And if I didn't, it would have been a fight 1761 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:23.640 more or less. 1762 01:19:23.720 --> 01:19:26.439 You said, the money's really good. Are you able to share, 1763 01:19:26.520 --> 01:19:28.000 like how much you make on average? 1764 01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:33.319 Or I'm making around like twenty five K a month? 1765 01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:37.359 Okay? And what's the highest you've ever made in a month. 1766 01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:39.760 Forty k? 1767 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:41.039 Okay? Cool? 1768 01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:44.079 And then you also in your notes here you said 1769 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:47.199 you wanted to speak on leaving toxic men and how 1770 01:19:47.239 --> 01:19:49.760 to know you're dating a con artist. 1771 01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:53.439 Because I dated he was a contract the guy thirty eight, 1772 01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:56.000 I think when I met thirty seven. When I met him, 1773 01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:57.800 his hinge profile said thirty. 1774 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:02.960 He said he was six. I say he. 1775 01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:07.319 Was pushing he was maybe five six, and he said 1776 01:20:07.319 --> 01:20:11.760 he was six foot when I met you get. 1777 01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:14.880 Ship stay with him for the length that you did, 1778 01:20:15.239 --> 01:20:17.720 like what do you think kept you? I don't know, honestly, 1779 01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:19.439 I'm not asking that. I'm like a judge. I'm not 1780 01:20:19.479 --> 01:20:22.279 asking a judge. I'm genuinely curious. Like what he wasn't 1781 01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:23.960 the height you wanted. He wasn't the age you wanted. 1782 01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:25.239 So like a lot of I didn't. 1783 01:20:25.079 --> 01:20:28.520 Want anything, I didn't. I didn't I didn't want a 1784 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:30.279 certain age, I didn't want a certain height. I'm just 1785 01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:33.479 saying he lied. I'm saying he's he lies about everything. 1786 01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:38.079 He lives a lie. I think he had said. I mean, 1787 01:20:38.119 --> 01:20:41.359 even like I probably like this kind of messed up, 1788 01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:44.399 but like his teeth and his jaw, like he had 1789 01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:47.720 the worst underbite, he had the worst mouth, the worst breath, 1790 01:20:47.720 --> 01:20:52.439 the worst everything. But he he told me that he 1791 01:20:52.920 --> 01:20:56.239 got into a surfing accident the first day I met him, 1792 01:20:56.319 --> 01:20:59.439 and that's why his entire mouth was messed up. Later 1793 01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:02.520 finding out that that was never a truthful thing. 1794 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:04.239 What what was it really? What did? 1795 01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:05.960 What was that born that way? 1796 01:21:06.239 --> 01:21:07.760 Oh? Just born that way? 1797 01:21:07.960 --> 01:21:10.199 Just born with horrendous teeth? 1798 01:21:10.279 --> 01:21:13.800 I mean, is anybody else the breath is your fault? 1799 01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:19.199 But that's fucking disgusting, Yeah, exactly, is anybody else at 1800 01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:22.640 the table born this way? Or wait, what how did 1801 01:21:22.680 --> 01:21:23.720 you say? Born that way? 1802 01:21:25.039 --> 01:21:26.920 I don't know. There's like a disorder that some people 1803 01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.199 will be born with her, like their jaw is super receded. 1804 01:21:29.239 --> 01:21:30.159 There's like a condition. 1805 01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:32.119 Yeah, I mean, well, there's like cleft lip or. 1806 01:21:32.119 --> 01:21:34.239 I'm talking there's one dog underbite. 1807 01:21:34.319 --> 01:21:40.439 Yeah, anybody else at the table was born that way? 1808 01:21:40.600 --> 01:21:42.880 I don't know. I have I was born with other jaws. 1809 01:21:43.359 --> 01:21:47.199 Actually the face is actually a wait, really, I wasn't 1810 01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:50.199 even talking about jaws, just like anything. Whatever. Okay, cool, 1811 01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:52.840 we're going to go to remind me how to pronounce 1812 01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:53.159 your name. 1813 01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:55.119 It's Hyacin. 1814 01:21:55.239 --> 01:21:57.920 Okay, Hyacin. I know this on your Instagram. There's a 1815 01:21:57.960 --> 01:22:00.840 tattoo that you have. It's on your leg. It says, 1816 01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:05.720 well behaved women really make excuse me, rarely make history. 1817 01:22:06.199 --> 01:22:09.720 Uh. Two questions, are you well behaved? 1818 01:22:10.079 --> 01:22:11.239 I am? 1819 01:22:11.359 --> 01:22:15.520 I'm a poser, and then secondly, have you made history? 1820 01:22:16.439 --> 01:22:16.600 No? 1821 01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:18.880 I haven't, so I guess I'm doing it all wrong. 1822 01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:22.319 Your tattoo is very contradictory. 1823 01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:25.000 Like that very first one. And I really liked Marilyn Monroe, 1824 01:22:25.279 --> 01:22:28.880 so cliche pintrick. One thing led to another. 1825 01:22:29.119 --> 01:22:31.880 I wonder if a woman's actually ever in the history 1826 01:22:32.039 --> 01:22:37.119 quoted that or has like that tattoo and actually made history. 1827 01:22:37.359 --> 01:22:38.279 Like it's it's kind. 1828 01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:41.000 Of this justification when women will use who will never 1829 01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:44.319 make history to act like either degenerates or assholes. 1830 01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:49.039 I actually think it's totally opposite, Like just to tilt 1831 01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:53.680 the term make history across time, it's actually well behaved 1832 01:22:53.680 --> 01:22:56.640 women who make society's work, and they actually are the 1833 01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:57.760 ones who make history. 1834 01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:00.479 Yeah, what defines well behaved to you? 1835 01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:03.119 Just generally submissive to the man? 1836 01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:08.720 Mm hmm, who's it? Who's on on board? Go ahead? 1837 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:13.199 But you're in the military, like you understand submission, right, No, 1838 01:23:13.520 --> 01:23:13.920 I do. 1839 01:23:14.119 --> 01:23:16.560 I'm just saying that, like I'm thinking we're going to 1840 01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:17.880 talk about this later down the line. 1841 01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:20.680 That's why I was just like, okay, like we'll let 1842 01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:22.600 you think that for a while. 1843 01:23:23.239 --> 01:23:26.640 Wait, wait, what do you mean like like. 1844 01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:27.960 I don't know, I'm just saying that, like, oh, we'll 1845 01:23:27.960 --> 01:23:29.319 discuss it in a in a bit. 1846 01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:30.840 So I'm like, oh, okay, yeah. 1847 01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:32.960 So I'm just like, so, how did you get the 1848 01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:35.880 all saying eye tattoo? What's the purpose of that on 1849 01:23:35.920 --> 01:23:37.319 your hand? Do you want to show it to the. 1850 01:23:37.239 --> 01:23:40.720 Camera meeting a guy at the time, and I was 1851 01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:43.840 doing like Hannah and I didn't have any tattoos, and 1852 01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:45.960 he was like, you should the knuckles. 1853 01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:47.119 It did not h bell. 1854 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:50.840 Can I wait? No? Go like this into this camera 1855 01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:55.520 face this camera? Stay? What wa stay? 1856 01:23:57.079 --> 01:24:03.880 Either she'd just beget. 1857 01:24:04.359 --> 01:24:07.039 You should go the other one it should be go broke. 1858 01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:08.079 I don't know. 1859 01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:14.239 Okay, well, did anybody to Jim Bob's point here you 1860 01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:16.640 were saying how what women should be submissive? 1861 01:24:16.680 --> 01:24:17.399 Basically? Is that? 1862 01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:19.720 Yeah? I mean it's a it's a larger statement than 1863 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:24.039 just the cliche of like follow me woman. Society is structured, 1864 01:24:24.039 --> 01:24:26.279 like Jay was pointing to the military structure, and so 1865 01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:31.680 societies are structured hierarchically, and they're structured patriarchically. Even if 1866 01:24:31.720 --> 01:24:34.680 you pretend they aren't, they just death they are functionally, 1867 01:24:34.720 --> 01:24:38.960 and so if you follow an ordered system called the society, 1868 01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:41.640 you actually are submissive just. 1869 01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:46.399 Definitionly by that, Like what when you're saying submissive, do 1870 01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:48.880 you mean like at a system level, like are you 1871 01:24:48.880 --> 01:24:51.439 talking about like women having rights to land ownership? 1872 01:24:51.520 --> 01:24:53.079 Let's just say, uh, let's just. 1873 01:24:54.920 --> 01:24:57.000 But then we probably want men to be submissive too, 1874 01:24:57.039 --> 01:24:58.319 So that's not how we would delineate. 1875 01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:02.239 Yeah, men actually from a christian in paradigm women. If 1876 01:25:02.279 --> 01:25:05.720 a man is not submissive to a higher order, a 1877 01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:09.760 Christianity God, if he's not within that paradigm, the woman 1878 01:25:09.840 --> 01:25:12.960 can't really see reflectively why she should be submissive. 1879 01:25:13.119 --> 01:25:15.039 Yeah, but when you say women be submissive, I think 1880 01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:17.880 we're assuming that you mean something separate from men, right, 1881 01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:20.039 So I don't think like not murdering is what you 1882 01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:21.800 mean when you say women should be submissive. I'm just 1883 01:25:21.800 --> 01:25:24.159 trying to detail, like when you say women be submissive, 1884 01:25:24.359 --> 01:25:26.720 what's unique for women, because I'm sure you have things. 1885 01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:29.560 Right unique to women, while I men don't need to do. Yeah, 1886 01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:33.039 I would say duties would be like submissive to your 1887 01:25:33.119 --> 01:25:36.479 duties in a sense that there's a way the system's ordered. 1888 01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:39.880 Women have duties and then men have duties. And so 1889 01:25:40.159 --> 01:25:43.039 men are because of their duties, because of their biology, 1890 01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:46.079 because of their nature. They assume these duties are actually 1891 01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:49.199 informed by their nature, and the women's duties are informed 1892 01:25:49.199 --> 01:25:52.039 by their nature. It's actually the best way to optimize 1893 01:25:52.119 --> 01:25:54.199 both natures of the man and women. 1894 01:25:55.359 --> 01:25:55.600 Yeah. 1895 01:25:55.880 --> 01:25:58.079 Still, I guess I'm trying to get the specifics, Like 1896 01:25:58.159 --> 01:25:59.880 when you say women submissive. 1897 01:26:00.319 --> 01:26:04.239 I would say for a society, it's better for a 1898 01:26:04.279 --> 01:26:07.600 society largely for the women to submit to the roles 1899 01:26:07.640 --> 01:26:13.399 as child bearers and mothers, maybe even in work, to 1900 01:26:13.560 --> 01:26:17.079 move toward the kinds of work that is aligned with 1901 01:26:17.119 --> 01:26:22.039 their nature, which they already do administrative caretakers, teachers, and 1902 01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:25.840 so I would say that from a larger view, that 1903 01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:28.960 that's a form of submission. An act of rebellion is 1904 01:26:29.079 --> 01:26:33.199 arguing basically what feminism ends up being is an argument 1905 01:26:33.239 --> 01:26:35.840 against reality as it is and saying we got to 1906 01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:39.600 revolutionize this. And yet the iron is they can't do 1907 01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:42.399 a revolution because they need men, which goes back to 1908 01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:44.119 exactly my point descriptively. 1909 01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:46.399 Yeah, So one thing I was asking, should women be 1910 01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:49.119 able to own land like private ownership of land? Is 1911 01:26:49.159 --> 01:26:50.920 that submissive or not submissive? 1912 01:26:51.760 --> 01:26:55.520 I'm not sure. I actually haven't really just thought about 1913 01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:58.960 whether they should own land. My immediate response to that 1914 01:26:59.159 --> 01:27:03.760 is they can own land, But is anyone else obligated 1915 01:27:03.840 --> 01:27:07.159 for for her to protect the land aside from her 1916 01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:10.520 from intruders? Probably call the police, have like, are they 1917 01:27:10.520 --> 01:27:12.159 obligated to show up and protect. 1918 01:27:11.920 --> 01:27:14.439 Your so many trespasses they're obligated. 1919 01:27:13.960 --> 01:27:16.079 To, They're lawfully. Not in our society. 1920 01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:18.640 Police officers don't have to arrest trespassers. 1921 01:27:18.680 --> 01:27:21.520 No, that's responding to a violation. They have a duty 1922 01:27:21.520 --> 01:27:23.880 to respond to violations. They have no duty to protect 1923 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:25.399 your property or your body. 1924 01:27:26.039 --> 01:27:27.319 Get a gun and a dog and stuff like that. 1925 01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:29.520 Yeah, if she gets a gun and a dog, and 1926 01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:32.479 we wish her the best with that, she can try 1927 01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:35.359 to do that. I'm just saying, ultimately, for the most part, 1928 01:27:35.479 --> 01:27:37.640 women are not going to be able to defend their 1929 01:27:37.960 --> 01:27:39.640 their body, their land, their house. 1930 01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:41.680 Sure, but you're fine with them owning the land. 1931 01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.800 Yeah, I mean I don't think that's a big So 1932 01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:45.520 you at least. 1933 01:27:45.319 --> 01:27:47.760 A line with first wave feminism. You're like, no, not. 1934 01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:51.319 Really, No, the philosophy is different than a particular sure, 1935 01:27:51.359 --> 01:27:53.680 but at least you can't say like you can't say 1936 01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:56.960 like you think women should own land. Uh, therefore you 1937 01:27:57.039 --> 01:27:59.960 agree with feminism, right, No, but you agree with that 1938 01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:01.279 element of feminism. 1939 01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:03.960 Right, That wouldn't be feminism because that existed prior to feminism. 1940 01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:05.319 I know we had this conversation yesterday. 1941 01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:07.600 It really time with it yesterday for that right they 1942 01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:07.960 wanted to. 1943 01:28:07.880 --> 01:28:12.359 Want, regardless of women having a right to life, that 1944 01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:18.000 existed prior to feminism, So that's not feminism in ancient cultures. Sure, 1945 01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:20.840 but women thought but that was contrary to what you are. 1946 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:21.880 Yesterday, I can answer you. 1947 01:28:22.079 --> 01:28:24.520 So that does that mean that you does that mean 1948 01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:25.359 you were wrong yesterday? 1949 01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:26.960 You want me to respect. 1950 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:28.359 That means you were wrong yesterday if you say sure. 1951 01:28:28.399 --> 01:28:32.000 But so the important thing that we delineated yesterday is 1952 01:28:32.000 --> 01:28:33.960 that women could own land, but it was specifically if 1953 01:28:33.960 --> 01:28:36.239 they were widows who inherited it through some like natural 1954 01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:39.720 patrilineal inheritance. So if her father willed her land, she 1955 01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:42.039 could own it, or her husband died, she could own it. 1956 01:28:42.159 --> 01:28:44.560 But the idea that women could just go out individually 1957 01:28:44.600 --> 01:28:48.039 and purchase land didn't really exist until after the Suffragette movement. Right, 1958 01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:50.840 that was part of what the suffragettes were ant in modernity. 1959 01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:54.279 Again, I reference no, I reference to you Proverbs thirty one, 1960 01:28:54.600 --> 01:28:58.279 which has women also engaging in commerce and even owning 1961 01:28:58.319 --> 01:29:00.319 their own business. So to own a business, she would 1962 01:29:00.319 --> 01:29:01.720 also potentially have to own land. 1963 01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:03.720 Yeah, the Jews are a lot more matrilineal. They were 1964 01:29:03.840 --> 01:29:05.239 very much more Okay. 1965 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.000 So what you don't even know what matrilineal? I mean? 1966 01:29:07.079 --> 01:29:10.039 That's the dissent in terms of how you determine who 1967 01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:12.159 your people group is. That has nothing to do with 1968 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:15.039 the social organization of the society, which you admitted was 1969 01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:17.960 patriarchal economically, because you're economically. 1970 01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:20.359 In Jewish systems, they would often hand down things to 1971 01:29:20.399 --> 01:29:22.039 the mother as well, right, that was like part of 1972 01:29:22.079 --> 01:29:23.920 the way to guarantee that the baby was a jew 1973 01:29:24.199 --> 01:29:26.039 and that the baby who was inheriting what was. 1974 01:29:27.079 --> 01:29:30.319 Well, if the woman's been letting you finish, she has 1975 01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:33.479 like I just was paying attention to that, like spat. 1976 01:29:33.239 --> 01:29:35.800 Right now, thank you, thanks for being repreciated. 1977 01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:39.199 So like in the Jewish thing, part of why the 1978 01:29:39.279 --> 01:29:42.439 natural thing emerged is because, like I said, if a 1979 01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:45.720 Jewish line is raped by a Roman officer, the only 1980 01:29:45.720 --> 01:29:48.520 way to guarantee that that baby has some Jewish line 1981 01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:56.039 wrong word sorry essayed by a Roman officer. Then the 1982 01:29:56.039 --> 01:29:58.600 only way to guarantee that that line is Jewish is 1983 01:29:58.640 --> 01:29:59.920 to know that it came out of her birth. Now, 1984 01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:02.479 whereas for the father's a really big issue that lots 1985 01:30:02.479 --> 01:30:06.199 of men have today is guarantee that the woman who 1986 01:30:06.359 --> 01:30:09.239 is his partner is actually having his child for somebody else. 1987 01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:11.399 This is why, like oftentimes inheritance was through mothers. 1988 01:30:11.640 --> 01:30:12.920 You know what the liver right law is. 1989 01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:16.279 The lever right law broadly, but I'm sure there's something specifical. 1990 01:30:16.279 --> 01:30:18.399 W I'm talking what is it broadly? Since you know 1991 01:30:18.479 --> 01:30:19.760 Jewish law, the lever right. 1992 01:30:19.720 --> 01:30:22.119 Law was like the rabbinic law that Jews operated off of. Sola. 1993 01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:23.720 Lever right law was like kind of what the highest 1994 01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:24.560 laws of inheritance. 1995 01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:28.319 It has to do with if I die, my brother 1996 01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:29.399 marries my wife. 1997 01:30:29.479 --> 01:30:31.720 Right, yes, how you have to impregnate the wife. Yep, 1998 01:30:31.920 --> 01:30:32.399 that's okay. 1999 01:30:32.520 --> 01:30:35.399 Does that sound like a matrilineal matriarchal society. 2000 01:30:35.560 --> 01:30:37.920 I didn't say that it was a matriarchal society. 2001 01:30:37.680 --> 01:30:41.079 Right, So it's patriarchal yep, okay, thank you. 2002 01:30:41.319 --> 01:30:44.960 And in a society where women own land legally because 2003 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:47.399 that's a legal term, right, is that a matriarchal or 2004 01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:48.199 a patriarchal? 2005 01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:49.680 It can be both. 2006 01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:49.920 Right. 2007 01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:52.680 The thing that we were talking about, the point that 2008 01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:55.800 I was making is that if your for women owning land, 2009 01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:58.359 regardless of their relationship to men, they can just I 2010 01:30:58.399 --> 01:31:00.439 can just go out and buy land, buy myself. I 2011 01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:02.159 don't need my dad or my husband to say yes, 2012 01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:05.159 igal suffragette position on which is fine for you to 2013 01:31:05.239 --> 01:31:05.920 side that doesn't. 2014 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:09.720 I'm just asked you a question. When you own something, 2015 01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:13.079 whether it's property, land, a house, an object, is that 2016 01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:19.800 a legal term? Yep, ownership and legality assumes what that you? 2017 01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:21.520 Oh, are you going down the enforcement arm? 2018 01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:21.800 Yeah? 2019 01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:25.479 It assumes that the authority is being protected by the government. 2020 01:31:25.479 --> 01:31:28.960 That in the case that the property is violated, even 2021 01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:32.359 if the women's capable of holding a heavy gun and 2022 01:31:32.359 --> 01:31:35.680 shooting it accurately, it still goes to a system that 2023 01:31:35.720 --> 01:31:37.960 decides whether she was just in shooting the man. 2024 01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:38.279 Right. 2025 01:31:38.479 --> 01:31:40.479 Yeah, men are stronger, if that's where you wanted to go. 2026 01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:43.000 It's not just men are stronger, it's that it's that 2027 01:31:43.119 --> 01:31:46.880 any argument for legal ownership of property, whether it's a 2028 01:31:46.920 --> 01:31:50.560 house or land or anything else, assumes an enforcement arm 2029 01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:53.600 that has to be mostly men. 2030 01:31:53.840 --> 01:31:55.800 Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether 2031 01:31:55.840 --> 01:31:57.119 or not you think women should be able to own 2032 01:31:57.159 --> 01:31:57.880 private plant. 2033 01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:00.319 Well, I know that. I'm just saying that's I'm trying 2034 01:32:00.319 --> 01:32:01.840 to It's not a it's not a point in favor 2035 01:32:01.880 --> 01:32:05.000 of feminism because it still relies on a patriarchy. 2036 01:32:05.239 --> 01:32:07.199 Well, it is because the suffragettes were the one that 2037 01:32:07.239 --> 01:32:09.119 asserted it, and that was part of the feminist movement, 2038 01:32:09.159 --> 01:32:10.479 So they get the point. 2039 01:32:10.840 --> 01:32:15.960 Any instance that you think is a feminist movement forward, 2040 01:32:16.079 --> 01:32:19.920 do you agree that anything you could list actually requires 2041 01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:21.600 a patriarchy to uphold. 2042 01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:25.960 Sort of in the way that you're now defining patriarchy 2043 01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:28.439 as like enforcement arm. Sure, it's just that's not how anyone. 2044 01:32:28.680 --> 01:32:31.760 I'm just saying the patriarchy would be men in power. 2045 01:32:32.439 --> 01:32:34.439 Yeah, but you're talking about men in power in the 2046 01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:36.199 enforcement arm, not the government system. 2047 01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:39.119 And what's the government system without power? 2048 01:32:39.279 --> 01:32:39.760 Banking? 2049 01:32:40.199 --> 01:32:41.359 What's banking without power? 2050 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:45.039 Okay? Do you want to go into the history of banking? 2051 01:32:45.119 --> 01:32:48.520 What's banking? The exchange of banking, fair, exchange of monetary 2052 01:32:48.560 --> 01:32:51.439 notes and ship without an enforcement a threat of force? 2053 01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:52.119 That's true. 2054 01:32:52.119 --> 01:32:54.279 Thought of force is the can can I make up money? 2055 01:32:54.319 --> 01:32:55.840 Can I make up any money? Sure? 2056 01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:58.279 This is going back to Donald Trump obviously has more 2057 01:32:58.279 --> 01:32:59.800 power than like an E five solition. 2058 01:32:59.800 --> 01:33:01.600 Can I make up any money? Can I? Can I 2059 01:33:01.640 --> 01:33:04.199 make up money? Can I just make it up? It's illegal? 2060 01:33:04.359 --> 01:33:07.039 I mean for the government, Yeah, kind of No, not 2061 01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:07.720 for the government. 2062 01:33:07.760 --> 01:33:09.960 Can I, as an individual in a society just make 2063 01:33:10.039 --> 01:33:12.319 up money? Just for okay, And if I do that, 2064 01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:13.079 what happens? 2065 01:33:13.640 --> 01:33:14.560 You would go to jail? 2066 01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:16.239 And how do I go to jail? Mechanically? 2067 01:33:16.600 --> 01:33:17.800 The police will arrest you? 2068 01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:18.760 And are they strong men? 2069 01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:19.520 Often? 2070 01:33:19.640 --> 01:33:19.880 Yeah? 2071 01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:23.119 Okay, I mean not all the time. They're very capable. 2072 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:26.800 They're lowering police not as capable, but they're lowering the standards. 2073 01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:28.079 I just don't know what that has to do with 2074 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:30.039 Can women own private property? 2075 01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:32.800 Like I understand they can? We already answered that, Well. 2076 01:33:32.640 --> 01:33:34.720 Hold on, I understand that for you, like going back 2077 01:33:34.760 --> 01:33:37.640 to the enforcement arm dialogue, tree is like your strongest position, 2078 01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:39.720 But I'm actually trying to flesh out your ideas about 2079 01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:41.880 other things because I'm genuinely I understand. 2080 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:44.600 But you've got to understand when we said, yeah, you 2081 01:33:44.640 --> 01:33:46.720 can own land, you can own stuff, you can participate 2082 01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.800 in the society and the economics, right, you said that's 2083 01:33:49.840 --> 01:33:52.159 a You basically said, so you agree with feminism. No, 2084 01:33:52.439 --> 01:33:55.840 I'm saying that that position. I'm saying that very clearly 2085 01:33:56.279 --> 01:34:00.239 that any expression of feminism that you present is atually 2086 01:34:00.279 --> 01:34:02.479 wholly reliant on something that's not feminist. 2087 01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:06.159 Sure, that just doesn't That's all I need to get here. 2088 01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:09.159 But that doesn't suffragettes So are you saying that the 2089 01:34:09.199 --> 01:34:12.199 suffragettes didn't get women's ability to acquire land? 2090 01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:13.760 Men men did that for them too. 2091 01:34:13.880 --> 01:34:15.319 The suffragets had nothing to do with it. 2092 01:34:15.399 --> 01:34:18.359 No, that's just influence. I'm not I'm not denying people 2093 01:34:18.399 --> 01:34:21.520 have influence on things. Ultimately, what you're asking is the 2094 01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.800 strong person to say it. So, right, So that's what 2095 01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:25.920 a protest is, right, it's fair. 2096 01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:27.840 But you agree with that, at least that suffragette. 2097 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:31.760 It's an appeal to it's an appeal to the enforcement arm. 2098 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:34.319 As a strong man, you're okay with women owning land 2099 01:34:34.359 --> 01:34:35.399 and you would protect that right. 2100 01:34:36.359 --> 01:34:39.319 Yeah, if women own land, if my wife owns someone. 2101 01:34:39.279 --> 01:34:44.720 Hold on one set, guys, Okay, go the sources hit 2102 01:34:44.760 --> 01:34:49.800 the eye in stream yard. Okay, hold on, continue the conversation. 2103 01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:54.720 Yeah, I would say even myself if if my wife 2104 01:34:54.760 --> 01:34:59.159 owned land, or we co own land or land or 2105 01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:02.960 something like this. What I'm pointing to is that ultimately 2106 01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:06.279 the ownership of that, I'm gonna we're both going to 2107 01:35:06.319 --> 01:35:09.239 rely on an enforcement arm that's not going to be feminist. 2108 01:35:09.439 --> 01:35:11.159 Yeah, sure, that just has nothing to do with her. 2109 01:35:11.199 --> 01:35:12.840 I was asking you, but I understand, like you want 2110 01:35:12.840 --> 01:35:13.920 to go back to the enforcement arm. 2111 01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:17.600 You really like that argument, But what's the further logical 2112 01:35:17.680 --> 01:35:20.439 line that you're asking when you ask about property. 2113 01:35:20.199 --> 01:35:22.079 Is if you think women should have the right to 2114 01:35:22.159 --> 01:35:22.800 own land. 2115 01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:25.560 Because you thought that would back up feminism. 2116 01:35:25.079 --> 01:35:27.600 Right now, because I'm genuinely curious if you guys think 2117 01:35:27.640 --> 01:35:28.600 women should own land? 2118 01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:30.600 Do you think that women should be able to open 2119 01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:31.720 a credit card in their name? 2120 01:35:32.039 --> 01:35:32.520 I thought that. 2121 01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:34.399 I think that was a bad idea. I think that 2122 01:35:34.399 --> 01:35:37.199 would have happened in nineteen seventy roughly. 2123 01:35:37.319 --> 01:35:37.520 Yeah. 2124 01:35:37.560 --> 01:35:40.560 I think the consequences of that being that women now 2125 01:35:40.640 --> 01:35:43.199 hold seventy five percent of consumer debt. And I don't 2126 01:35:43.239 --> 01:35:45.520 think debt is pretty good for people. I don't think 2127 01:35:45.560 --> 01:35:49.039 it's a thing that they should be okay with. I 2128 01:35:49.039 --> 01:35:51.560 think people should generally work against debt, whether they're a 2129 01:35:51.560 --> 01:35:53.720 man or a woman, maybe lower their debt. I think 2130 01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:56.960 the burden of debt adds to some stress. I think 2131 01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:01.880 it could actually add to some instant uh and things 2132 01:36:01.880 --> 01:36:02.239 like that. 2133 01:36:02.680 --> 01:36:07.880 So, and let's say hypothetically women weren't allowed to get 2134 01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:11.960 a credit card most of history. No, no, for sure, 2135 01:36:12.039 --> 01:36:14.760 I'm just saying that, Well, credits relatively new, But that's 2136 01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:18.720 a whole different conversation that we can be having. You're 2137 01:36:18.760 --> 01:36:23.000 basically saying that I'm trying to think, sorry, I'm trying 2138 01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:23.720 to like phrase the. 2139 01:36:23.640 --> 01:36:27.119 Words it's just dead. How is credit? 2140 01:36:27.359 --> 01:36:30.039 No, No, it's what if a woman like in her 2141 01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:32.319 own time, like this isn't like a requirement that it 2142 01:36:32.399 --> 01:36:34.560 should be. So I'm saying, on her own time, she 2143 01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:37.640 did her research and she got a financial literacy class. 2144 01:36:37.640 --> 01:36:40.159 You're basically saying, well, you can't have it anyway, even 2145 01:36:40.159 --> 01:36:42.720 if you're more financially literate than other men. Are the 2146 01:36:43.119 --> 01:36:45.920 than men because you're a woman is basically where you're 2147 01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:48.079 going at. Because what if she is financially literate, Because 2148 01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:50.960 you're making a broad statement saying women shouldn't have it 2149 01:36:50.960 --> 01:36:53.159 because they're not financial what if they are? 2150 01:36:53.279 --> 01:36:55.079 So once again, this is like the third time you've 2151 01:36:55.159 --> 01:36:57.239 argued that the exceptions should make the rule. 2152 01:36:57.479 --> 01:36:59.359 This would really be an exception based. 2153 01:36:59.079 --> 01:36:59.680 On what's saying. 2154 01:37:00.079 --> 01:37:02.680 Her exception was a woman who went and studied it. 2155 01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:03.520 It's not an exception. 2156 01:37:03.600 --> 01:37:07.359 Though, right to study economics better than men is an exception. 2157 01:37:07.399 --> 01:37:09.079 He's asking a line of it's an exception. 2158 01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:10.920 Her example is an exception. 2159 01:37:11.000 --> 01:37:11.880 It is just accepted. 2160 01:37:12.119 --> 01:37:18.079 It's not an exception. Okay, exception. You know you want 2161 01:37:18.119 --> 01:37:21.479 me to I want to talk to me, you have to. 2162 01:37:21.880 --> 01:37:25.479 You're just going to interrupt. I've already talked about you. 2163 01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:29.000 You know you can dunk. I often look up when 2164 01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:31.920 I think that's fine apparently, So do you want me 2165 01:37:31.960 --> 01:37:32.720 to answer you? 2166 01:37:33.840 --> 01:37:34.640 Is that an exception? 2167 01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:38.640 It's not an exception because it's completely normative to assume 2168 01:37:38.680 --> 01:37:41.399 that multiple women can go and get financial literacy. 2169 01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:43.520 Well, you know, if you're wanting her to stare you 2170 01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:45.079 in the eyes, will arguing why don't you take your 2171 01:37:45.079 --> 01:37:45.640 shades off? 2172 01:37:45.720 --> 01:37:47.960 Because I am so much on drugs right now? 2173 01:37:50.960 --> 01:37:53.520 Okay, in fairness, he has eye floaters. I will give 2174 01:37:53.600 --> 01:37:55.560 him that points he's got like eye floaters, although it 2175 01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:58.479 wouldn't be better if you took them off so that 2176 01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:05.840 you can where DA got incredible blue eyes. 2177 01:38:06.399 --> 01:38:09.079 That's what I want to do, isn't the isn't an exception? 2178 01:38:09.319 --> 01:38:12.479 The something that's paired up against most. 2179 01:38:14.079 --> 01:38:19.039 Uh? Yeah, but again you're most thank you in this case. 2180 01:38:19.199 --> 01:38:22.159 Hold on making this so complicated. 2181 01:38:21.680 --> 01:38:23.960 Because you're being false analogous right now. What's the false 2182 01:38:23.960 --> 01:38:27.359 and the false analogy is to imply, well, you used 2183 01:38:27.359 --> 01:38:29.239 it incorrectly last time. You did. 2184 01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:31.439 In fact, where's the analogy anyway? 2185 01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:34.000 The analogy here now is between men and women and 2186 01:38:34.039 --> 01:38:36.960 a comparison line on financial literacy. And so you're saying, well, 2187 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:38.680 most women aren't financially literate. 2188 01:38:39.159 --> 01:38:42.239 Most men better than men. 2189 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.079 You got to finish, so most men are also not 2190 01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:47.680 financially nothing to do with example. I will get there 2191 01:38:47.680 --> 01:38:50.920 if you if you the whole podcast. If you don't 2192 01:38:50.960 --> 01:38:52.960 want to listen and just interrupt me, that's fine, But 2193 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:53.479 then we can't. 2194 01:38:53.560 --> 01:38:55.680 It's a dumb You gotta let me finish. 2195 01:38:55.399 --> 01:38:57.600 My let me finish my statement. 2196 01:38:59.039 --> 01:38:59.399 Reception. 2197 01:38:59.640 --> 01:39:02.840 You gotta to finish my segment once you're done. Once 2198 01:39:02.880 --> 01:39:05.199 you're done, I'll go back hang yourself again. Okay, So 2199 01:39:05.319 --> 01:39:07.319 there are The issue that you're having is that when 2200 01:39:07.319 --> 01:39:09.680 you're talking about how women are not most women are 2201 01:39:09.720 --> 01:39:13.199 not financially literate, men are also not mostly financially literate. 2202 01:39:13.239 --> 01:39:16.239 So you not you need you need to create a 2203 01:39:16.439 --> 01:39:21.199 line of credulity beyond financial literacy that makes women exceptionally 2204 01:39:21.239 --> 01:39:24.159 incapable of having a credit card that men don't have. 2205 01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:27.520 If your exceptional line, if your lineup, you got to 2206 01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:30.319 let me finish. I'm going to keep talking until you 2207 01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:33.840 let me finish. You gotta let me finish off studies. 2208 01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:35.479 I'm just going to keep talking you all, and I'm 2209 01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:37.840 going to pick up exactly where I want till you're done. Interesting. 2210 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:39.880 I'm going to keep going until you let me pick 2211 01:39:39.920 --> 01:39:40.760 up exactly where I was. 2212 01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:42.119 You can't kill a buster. 2213 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:43.600 This is all you can. 2214 01:39:45.760 --> 01:39:46.279 Give yourself. 2215 01:39:46.960 --> 01:39:50.119 I'm just going to wait until you actually But you're 2216 01:39:50.199 --> 01:39:53.159 the version and he's one of the greatest debaters on 2217 01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:57.239 the planet. So that's totally okay that you're I know, 2218 01:39:57.439 --> 01:39:59.279 once you're done, I going to know about So the lineup. 2219 01:39:59.439 --> 01:40:02.119 The worst on there and you're the worst version. 2220 01:40:02.279 --> 01:40:04.840 Again, and tell you can tru if you want to. Okay. 2221 01:40:04.840 --> 01:40:08.159 So the line of cadulity good one, it's just a 2222 01:40:08.239 --> 01:40:11.880 machine gun line of credulity. The line of cadulity that 2223 01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:14.000 you have to stablish at some point is why men 2224 01:40:14.039 --> 01:40:16.520 are exceptional in the case of credit cards, that women 2225 01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:19.960 are not. In the line your financial literary talking to yourself, 2226 01:40:20.119 --> 01:40:23.600 for example, what's financial literacy? And there's no rule, No, 2227 01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:27.680 it was literacy. Who agree with that part? 2228 01:40:27.760 --> 01:40:29.319 Those helps what you said. 2229 01:40:29.439 --> 01:40:32.399 No, there's no reason a woman can't be financially literate. 2230 01:40:32.479 --> 01:40:34.760 So she just have you set a woman who goes 2231 01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:37.560 and studies beyond what most men. 2232 01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:40.159 She was asking for a line of cadulity. So she says, okay, 2233 01:40:40.199 --> 01:40:42.960 if your bar of the issue is that financial literacy 2234 01:40:43.239 --> 01:40:45.720 the rule? Why can women who become financially literate and 2235 01:40:45.760 --> 01:40:47.840 not apply for credit cards? Now you have to establish 2236 01:40:47.880 --> 01:40:50.319 the reason a woman who is financially literate can't apply 2237 01:40:50.359 --> 01:40:50.880 for a credit card. 2238 01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:52.319 I've never said that they couldn't. 2239 01:40:52.760 --> 01:40:54.720 So you're fine with women that are financial. 2240 01:40:54.640 --> 01:40:56.920 Positions that are not relevant to what she argued? 2241 01:40:57.039 --> 01:40:59.039 So are you okay with women who are financially. 2242 01:40:59.159 --> 01:41:01.319 I'm responding to her critique. 2243 01:41:01.359 --> 01:41:02.640 I can let her ask you the same. 2244 01:41:03.000 --> 01:41:04.399 Exceptions don't make the rule? 2245 01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:07.119 Are you fine with women who are? Are you fine 2246 01:41:07.119 --> 01:41:09.000 with women who are financially getting a cast? 2247 01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:10.600 It's like talking to a thirteen year old child. 2248 01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:11.600 Do you want to answer her? 2249 01:41:11.640 --> 01:41:13.840 Exceptions don't make It's. 2250 01:41:13.800 --> 01:41:14.840 An exception at all. 2251 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:18.319 Financially is not a woman who studies it more than 2252 01:41:18.439 --> 01:41:19.159 the average man. 2253 01:41:19.319 --> 01:41:20.520 She gave you one study. 2254 01:41:20.600 --> 01:41:23.399 That doesn't mean an exception, thank you. 2255 01:41:22.920 --> 01:41:25.239 No, that was one. It's a case study to test 2256 01:41:25.279 --> 01:41:26.079 the example. 2257 01:41:26.159 --> 01:41:26.840 That's an exception. 2258 01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:28.960 It's not an exception to the rule. It's a case 2259 01:41:28.960 --> 01:41:30.079 study to test your logic. 2260 01:41:30.399 --> 01:41:31.399 How is hay study? 2261 01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:33.520 She just said an example she was giving one person. 2262 01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:35.399 That's not study, it is. 2263 01:41:35.279 --> 01:41:36.920 It's focusing in an example. 2264 01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:37.840 Is a case study? 2265 01:41:38.159 --> 01:41:40.600 Yeah, in this case, it's a focus the study. 2266 01:41:40.880 --> 01:41:41.439 What case? 2267 01:41:41.680 --> 01:41:43.079 Nobody hears your thank you? 2268 01:41:43.079 --> 01:41:44.119 So it's not a case. No, you're just. 2269 01:41:44.239 --> 01:41:46.199 Certivocating now where you're acting like when I start. 2270 01:41:46.159 --> 01:41:48.159 Using the words that I used yesterday because you're a 2271 01:41:48.199 --> 01:41:51.640 gas lighter and you can't actually debate, okay, gas light 2272 01:41:51.720 --> 01:41:53.479 from everything that I said yesterday. 2273 01:41:53.119 --> 01:41:53.800 I know you're really. 2274 01:41:55.600 --> 01:41:56.359 Would repeat them. 2275 01:41:56.520 --> 01:41:57.600 I'll just wait for you to be done. 2276 01:41:57.640 --> 01:42:00.199 Do you want to say Texas sharpshooter fallacy because you 2277 01:42:00.199 --> 01:42:01.680 looked it up last night? You want to you want 2278 01:42:01.680 --> 01:42:02.199 to do that one? 2279 01:42:02.239 --> 01:42:06.039 No, I didn't actually look at You're belaboring something that 2280 01:42:06.079 --> 01:42:09.920 you should just concede you she she gave an exception. Exception, 2281 01:42:10.159 --> 01:42:13.520 you're talking over me. She gave her an exception that 2282 01:42:13.600 --> 01:42:16.960 she listed. An exception is a very specific exception, right, 2283 01:42:17.159 --> 01:42:20.319 she described it. Jay responded to the exceptions not an exception, 2284 01:42:20.479 --> 01:42:22.920 it is how can you not say that this is so? 2285 01:42:23.319 --> 01:42:25.840 I can't explain to you. Again, the reason that it's 2286 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:27.840 not an exception is that she wasn't saying in this 2287 01:42:27.880 --> 01:42:29.720 one unique case where this woman is exception. 2288 01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:32.760 She gave you an example of a woman who did it. Breathe, 2289 01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:34.439 you have an exception. 2290 01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:36.520 Jay, you have to let me finish talking. Or again 2291 01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:38.399 the audience, when you ever get anything. 2292 01:42:38.119 --> 01:42:41.760 It is so dumb. Fine, everyone's IQ literally starts going 2293 01:42:42.159 --> 01:42:42.680 point yeah. 2294 01:42:42.680 --> 01:42:44.000 Good one, Jay, we're getting to. 2295 01:42:44.039 --> 01:42:45.600 The eighty IQ level every time. 2296 01:42:45.680 --> 01:42:48.000 Once you're done, once you're done, all of your sick 2297 01:42:48.039 --> 01:42:49.920 device to zero. 2298 01:42:50.279 --> 01:42:52.880 Please, good God, please help me. 2299 01:42:53.079 --> 01:42:56.199 They're almost zero from you and Brian. If you want 2300 01:42:56.239 --> 01:42:57.960 me to engage with this, I can. We can also 2301 01:42:58.000 --> 01:42:58.319 move on. 2302 01:42:58.399 --> 01:43:01.000 But if he's going to get or what determines if 2303 01:43:01.039 --> 01:43:04.359 something's an exception, it's a criteria. 2304 01:43:04.800 --> 01:43:07.159 Something that is so like atypically be like less than 2305 01:43:07.159 --> 01:43:08.720 like I don't know, like five percent. It has to 2306 01:43:08.800 --> 01:43:12.159 be something that is, oh, it has to be so 2307 01:43:12.600 --> 01:43:16.159 that's normal. So for example, a way that we could 2308 01:43:16.199 --> 01:43:19.000 apply this this fallacy correctly, if you want me to 2309 01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:21.560 talk you through it, is say we're talking about body count, 2310 01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:23.720 and then we find this one case of a woman 2311 01:43:23.760 --> 01:43:26.239 that has a hundred body count, and it turns out 2312 01:43:26.239 --> 01:43:28.680 that after she does that, she has a really long 2313 01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:31.680 successful marriage in life. And if I use that to 2314 01:43:31.720 --> 01:43:35.239 prove c body count doesn't matter, you would say, well, 2315 01:43:35.279 --> 01:43:36.880 that's a bit an exception to the rule. It doesn't 2316 01:43:36.880 --> 01:43:38.760 make that the rule that generally that the higher the 2317 01:43:38.760 --> 01:43:41.840 body count is that they're more less likely to be consistent. 2318 01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.119 Are you going on, Jake, your friend asked me a question, 2319 01:43:46.199 --> 01:43:48.039 I need to answer it, So you don't. 2320 01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:51.439 Answer, literally, just the machine gun vomit out of your 2321 01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:53.159 for like minutes on. 2322 01:43:53.239 --> 01:43:57.359 End, and all you do is interrupt, constantly, make loud. 2323 01:43:57.079 --> 01:44:00.520 Amuting noise arguments over the dumbest ship that not even 2324 01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:01.840 relevant to the exception. 2325 01:44:02.039 --> 01:44:04.239 I'm allowed. I'm allowed to be. 2326 01:44:06.920 --> 01:44:07.840 In fact in your. 2327 01:44:10.479 --> 01:44:12.520 I'm pretty sure you asked me to debate you. So 2328 01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:14.560 if this is a problem for you, that's fine. But 2329 01:44:14.680 --> 01:44:16.760 you agreed to these engagements. If you don't want to 2330 01:44:16.760 --> 01:44:18.800 debate me in the future, you don't have to. But 2331 01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:21.880 if you asked me, you reached out to me. And 2332 01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:24.079 why did you reach out in the first place? Why 2333 01:44:24.079 --> 01:44:25.600 did you ask for Brian to host us? 2334 01:44:25.760 --> 01:44:27.439 Why does it matter if I reached out to you? 2335 01:44:27.479 --> 01:44:31.800 Because you want to debate me, which means that you've agreed. 2336 01:44:31.399 --> 01:44:32.560 To some level of debate. 2337 01:44:33.520 --> 01:44:40.640 But the issue is that again, if you know one 2338 01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:41.960 thing that's pretty telling is