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Speaker 1: So we should have more people in society.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I don't know if this is connected to birth right.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the more people in society would would

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then back up what you're arguing, right, I don't don't

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we need more husbands and wives to have more people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't think these things are mutually exclusive.

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Speaker 1: How can a wife be a CEO and also raise

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the kids?

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Speaker 2: Tampon's birth control?

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Speaker 1: Like tampons and birth control raise the kids? What do

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you mean?

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Speaker 2: Lots of lots of women find a way to both

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raise children and work well. The shared parenting like the

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husband takes roles. Sometimes they get babysitters, Sometimes there's intergenerational families.

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There's multiple ways that women share the load of parenting.

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Speaker 1: So that's a net good.

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Speaker 2: It can be a okay for the opportunities.

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Speaker 1: As the standard for good?

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Speaker 2: Here do you mean, like like at an epistemic level,

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at any level good.

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Speaker 1: As in in your worldview, what determines the good?

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Speaker 2: So in the in the case of what we're talking about,

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I talk with the innovator scale. So the reason I

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like women being able to have access to opportunity is

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because it improves GDP.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the net good for society? Is just what

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more fiat money? Like? What what determines that GDP is

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a good thing?

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Speaker 2: Do you disagree?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I do? You don't think, first of all, like

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what if the money is a scam.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't have anything to do with GDP, why would

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not having more GDP for a country not be.

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Speaker 1: Good the nature of the money itself, if the money

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system is a debt based scam, doesn't have anything to

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do with GDP, not.

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Speaker 2: Really, because GDP is about like the income of a country, right,

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So like debt is debt is part of how you

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navigate income of a country.

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Speaker 1: Right, But our country's income is presently based on pure debt.

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Right is that a bad thing?

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Speaker 2: Our GDP is not based on debt.

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Speaker 1: It is, well, the whole the whole system is based

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on debt. Gross domestic product is not itself debt. I'm

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saying the economic system itself is based on debts. Yeah,

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like ab based system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, theory of like money is very debt organized. It's

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just like debt is not this like boogloo scary thing

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in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about Our system is fiot. It's not

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attached to anything hard. It's No, there's no hard currency

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that our money is attached to since the shock doctrine

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of Nixon, Right, So Nixon goes off the gold standard.

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So we're now a debt based system. So I'm just

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saying your highest quality was the best GDP in society.

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So your organizing principle is a neoliberal economic theory. So

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what I want to know is, even if that's itself

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based on debt, then what's the source of the good here?

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Speaker 2: So in this case, what is good for society is

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having a competitive GDP so that your enemies can't start.

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Speaker 1: That's the highest good.

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Speaker 2: That's not the highest good. That's the good of what

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I'm talking about in the case of women entering in.

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Speaker 1: What is the highest good that determines that that's good?

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about moralities at all.

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Speaker 1: In your system? You tell me what your system's standard

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of good is.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not really sure why we're having the epistemic conversation.

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I went on because it feels like we're losing the

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plot of the conversation.

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Speaker 1: No, I want to know what your standard of the

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good is?

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Speaker 2: Again, what do you mean by good?

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Speaker 1: You said that the GDP is necessarily attached to the

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highest good.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say highest good. I said it's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Then I'm asking you what the highest good is

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that determines that the GDP is better than not caring

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about GDP I have.

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Speaker 2: So you're asking for my moral foundation theory. Sure, I'm

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a divine and theorist.

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Speaker 1: From what divine command?

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Speaker 2: The Christian God.

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Speaker 1: And he says GDP is good? No, the Moses come down, and.

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Speaker 2: I don't think GDP is moral.

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Speaker 1: You just said it was the highest good.

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Speaker 2: I'd say it was the highest good.

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Speaker 1: This debate.

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Speaker 2: No, I said it's good for society.

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Speaker 1: Then it's moral. If it's good.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's moral in this case.

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Speaker 1: If it's good, it's moral.

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Speaker 2: Well you can have good good Well, of course you

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can have functional claims, right, So.

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Speaker 1: If it's only functional, or if it's only pragmatic, then

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it's not ultimately a good. It's just subjective.

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Speaker 2: So at a functional level it is. I guess, do

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you disagree with this idea that it's good for a

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state to have competitive high GDP.

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Speaker 1: It could be, but I don't think it's the highest good.

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And I have a standard of good. So I'm trying

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to figure out what yours.

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Speaker 2: Is, Well, what's more important for a nation state than GDP.

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Speaker 1: The health of the society.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but if the health of society is really high, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, could you have let me, let me give an example.

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Could you have a society that's mass addicted to drugs

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but has a good number of a nice income.

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Speaker 2: Probably not.

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Speaker 1: No, you can have societies that are full of detriment,

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like full of ghettos, and they're ruled over by organized

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crime that make a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: Typically those countries, like if you're thinking about like the

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Congo or like areas that have like high levels of corruption,

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their GDP is horrible because typically crime is not good.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying you could conceivably have that. It doesn't

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matter whether there's some exception to that rules.

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Speaker 2: So it's not exception that I would say. The rule

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is in general, when you have lots of corruption and

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drug addiction, it's not good for GDP.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying, conceivably you could have a ruling elite

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that makes a lot of money from draw and the

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society itself is living in shantytown. Right.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that nation state would have HY I

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don't think there's any evidence It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: If you think that, because it's conceivable that you could

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have that right, you could have a successful oligarchy that

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that makes a lot of money, and the people themselves

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don't do very well.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about like Saudi Arabia. Yeah, sure, sure, but

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Saudi Arabia again is not nearly as competitive as somewhere

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like America or any more.

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Speaker 1: But again, how do we know that the competitiveness for

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women is a good? You've just said that that's the

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case because it increases GDP.

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Speaker 3: I'll just take a circle.

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Speaker 2: It's okay. If we're going to do like it, we

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can do a grip with trelembit. It's just useless. I

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can use it at you too.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Well, but if I'm arguing for a moral aught on

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the basis of there's not a moral ought, it is

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you said not a good. If you say something.

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Speaker 2: Id it's functional. Yeah, okay, we're doing chatter.

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Speaker 1: So now you're wanting me to use function in a debate.

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If you're arguing for your position, then you're necessarily arguing

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that we ought to follow your position.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I said a necessity and an unavoidable

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It doesn't mean it's a moral claim. It would be

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like real politic, Well, that.

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Speaker 1: It's an ought, because do you think we should we

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ought to.

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Speaker 2: Follow your ought?

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Speaker 1: We follow your.

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Speaker 2: Arguments as in like should you do what I prescribe

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for society?

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Speaker 1: Ought? We follow the true arguments versus the false arguments. Sure, okay,

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then you're using an ought right now to argue for

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your position.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but this isn't a moral claim.

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Speaker 1: You just argue that we ought to follow your position.

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That's it is. Aughts are morals if you're extending them

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to everybody in the theoretical realm of listening to the debate.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that it's so we are not moral

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to have GDP? Do you think GDP is moral.

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Speaker 1: In your I'm pointing out that you're answer. My question

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is I have a different system than you, so it's

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not going to apply to my system.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that GDP is moral?

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Speaker 1: Everything in life is conceivably or potentially moral.

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Speaker 2: How is GDP moral?

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Speaker 1: Because you extended it to in this argument the highest good?

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Speaker 3: I did not you did walked it back after ask

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for the highest good?

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Speaker 2: No, yes, you did, I did not. You said for

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a nation state. I guess it's like one of the

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higher goods. Yes, it's not the highest good and I

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have said so, and what is the good?

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Speaker 1: Jay?

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain to you over and

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over that this is not a moral claim. It's you're

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saying that pragmatism.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that, but ought we follow your argument and pragmatism.

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Speaker 2: Here if you want a flourishing society, buy.

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Speaker 1: And logically sure, but it ought we logically it's sure.

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Speaker 2: It's again, it's not a moral claim.

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Speaker 1: It's not.

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Speaker 2: Is GDP a moral claim?

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Speaker 1: It can be depending upon the system.

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Speaker 2: How is GDP a moral claim in your system?

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Speaker 1: How you're arguing that? You just said we ought to

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follow your argument.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how many times to tell you this.

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I'm not making a claim.

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Speaker 1: You are. I mean you're saying you're not.

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Speaker 2: You're just keep taking time.

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Speaker 1: You say that there's an ought.

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Speaker 2: That's not true.

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Speaker 1: That is true. No, it is even if you redefine

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it as this.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to have a liberal society that has

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a high GDP. You're just going to get stomped and

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you'll be a failed nation state. It's neutral morally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're missing the point about highest goods for society.

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Speaker 3: You're arguing that engaging in that yet, well, I'm.

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Speaker 1: That's go ahead.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, just if you guys can try that, If

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you guys can just try to let each other finish

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your thoughts, but go ahead.

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Speaker 1: So this debate necessarily comes down to metaphysical claims and

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epistemical claims and ethical claims. Yes, it does, because feminism

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is about morals, ethics, biology, society, social relations. You can't

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divorce ethics from that.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: If you think you can, I'm happy to address that,

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but that's just going to get you in an even

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deeper bind.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you can't that you can divorce

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these things.

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Speaker 1: Of course, if you just argued a minute ago that

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it's not medp is not moral, then you can't divorce

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these things. So you just contradicted yourself.

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Speaker 2: So there are lots of elements. There are lots of

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elements within feminism that do make moral claims, right, lots

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of them. When I'm talking about something like an innovator scale,

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it's not a moral claim, it's real politics.

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Speaker 1: Dan you think that, but pointing out that it is

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still moral, that's the argument I'm making.

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Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to engage with the actual conversation.

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Speaker 1: Now, you saying that doesn't avoid the argument. I'm okay,

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I know that's what you're.

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Speaker 2: Why is GDP not good for society or is it?

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it depends on your standard of good. Well,

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that's what I'm asking you.

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Speaker 2: Your a standard of good, and I.

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Speaker 1: Think GDP can be great for a society, but it's

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not the highest good of society, such as the social

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cohesion of society. That's more important than who's making FIAT money.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what do you think is the role of the

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nation state?

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Speaker 1: The nation state has the job and the duty to

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defend its people and to maintain a healthy society, to

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punish the wicked, and to reward virtue.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I would probably agree it's to keep its

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citizens safe. Right, Okay, how does it do that at a.

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Speaker 1: I said, reward virtue and punished vice. So there's also

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necessarily an ethical component there.

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Speaker 2: Sure that that's your your claim, that's my worldview. I'm

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just engaging with it, right, Okay, So then how does

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your nation state in your worldview, protect itself from.

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Speaker 1: Enemies but has a standing army?

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Speaker 2: Okay, and how does it fund that standing army?

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Speaker 1: Well, nations have gone into debts, or they have been

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prosperous and used their own treasuries, or they have raised

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money to go to war. So there's a lot of

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different ways.

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Speaker 2: That could happen, okay, And so what do you think

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is the right way to do that?

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Speaker 1: It's an oversimplification question because not everything in regard to

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warfare or history of civilizations is necessarily right or wrong.

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It's a question of what might be the best or

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the worst. So there can be scales.

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Speaker 2: It's not just there are some things that aren't moral necessarily.

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Some of them are just pragmatic, and then there's some

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things that are moral.

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Speaker 1: Everything could potentially be moral, but some things are pragmatic.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Okay, that's basically what I've been saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you got appealing to the good of a

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nation state.

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Speaker 2: You were again because you were using the word good

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in a way that I wasn't meaning it. And even

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though I clarified multiple times that I meant functional, and

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I even said, what word would you like me to

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use to describe this?

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Speaker 1: I understand that you think that saying that because it's functional,

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it removes the ethical domain. But it doesn't, is the

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point I'm trying to make because the question that we're

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debating is whether feminism is good for society or not.

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That's an ethical moral Okay, So.

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Speaker 2: Going back to the chatter thing, how we have to

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agree about words. Okay, you're now essentially assigning to me

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what good means, and it's it's obvious that I'm not.

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I'm doing an internal critique because what I'm doing, you

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know what that was assigning to me.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what internal critique is? Tell me, so,

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I'm criticizing your position on its own grounds. That's an

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internal critique. That's what happens in debates.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what word would you like me to use when

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I am describing this non moral functional element that is

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the one.

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Speaker 1: That makes a non moral position makes sense of why

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feminism is a good for society.

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Speaker 2: We can get there, but again we have to you're

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not going to get there. Well, we can, but you're

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not even you're not even like we're doing chatter. We're

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literally no, we're doing.

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Speaker 1: At the point where you don't understand the issue.

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Speaker 2: That's that's not true. All you've done at this point

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is just like you've basically you're in you're just weaponizing trigris.

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Speaker 1: Now you admitted that the debate is about whether feminism

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is good for society. That's a moral ethical domain, right there.

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Speaker 2: Sure, there are some moral elements.

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Speaker 1: So when you make arguments about GDP, if it's not moral,

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then it's not relevant to the debate.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely moral. What language would like to use? I

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said it's not. There is moral elements and there are

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some non moral elements.

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Speaker 1: Is the debate today about something moral?

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Speaker 6: Uh?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I agreed to saying we're only

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going to talk about epistemics and morality. Good is again

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this word that we're basically doing chatter around where you're

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assigning a label to it, and I haven't agreed to.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out your position on the good.

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Speaker 2: My position on the good because it's holistic. There are

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things that are good because it's functional, and there are

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things that it's good because it's moral.

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Speaker 1: Right, Is the debate today feminism about the good of

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the moral for society?

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Speaker 2: It's about I guess I would like to make the

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case for both.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, and that means that everything you've been saying

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for the last hour is wrong.

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Speaker 2: No, Because I'm making a case for the functional element too.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that you're making the case for the

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function element too doesn't matter. If you're also talking about

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the moral.

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Speaker 2: You can make both arguments, and I would like to

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engage in the first one.

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Speaker 1: Right, because the other one is the one I'm looking at.

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And that's the problem for you.

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Speaker 2: It's not the problem for me. No, right, No, The

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problem with this conversation is it essentially what you've done

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is you've assigned me a bunch of positions that I

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don't have. No, You've done a bunch of circle talk

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about words, You've done a couple of rhetorical flash bangs,

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and now we're stuck in the situation where we can't

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actually talk about the ideas, which is unfortunate because I.

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Speaker 1: Was really looking fund to assort. You're chasing your like

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one foot is nailed and then the other one is

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going in a circle. Like you're like a car again,

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you're running in a circle.

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Speaker 2: If you want to like throw a Gripa's trilemma at me,

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you can, But I can throw it at you too,

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And if we do that, then there's no point run

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an impasse. What do you think is good?

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Speaker 1: The good ultimately relates to God, the highest good okay.

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Speaker 2: The highest good? So is GDP in direction of that

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or not.

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Speaker 1: All things that exist are good in some way and

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in some way relate to morals, But I do not

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believe that the GDP is the highest good for society.

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Speaker 2: Okay. What is the highest good for society?

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Speaker 1: The health and flourishing of the society, which has to

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exist within some kind of patriarchal norm that's the only

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way that it can.

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Speaker 2: Function, gotcha.

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Speaker 1: And the ones that don't, they dysfunction.

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Speaker 2: Okay. And so in your mind, does GDP contribute to

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any of that?

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Speaker 1: It's just one component of life, just like I don't

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know the size of the nation's land mass is one.

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Speaker 2: Component, Sue, I won't agree with that, but.

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Speaker 1: It's not the highest good.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So what's the argument that feminism is good for society.

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Speaker 2: Feminism is good for society at a functional level because

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it increases innovator scale. I also think it's the right

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thing to do.

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Speaker 1: That's moral oughts, Yep.

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Speaker 2: I'm giving you a moral claim now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. And why is it right for society?

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Speaker 2: It is right for society because I think in general

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we should try to treat others well, and I think

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limiting people's opportunity by force is bad for them. I

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don't think God wants that. Okay, what God, the Christian one?

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Speaker 1: Okay, where does he talk about.

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Speaker 2: This forcing people to do things?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 1: This idea of what the good is for society because

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we have a lot of historical Christian societies. Sure, were

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any of them feminists?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: But I don't think in general that God advocates really

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strongly for a political system.

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: What about when Israel was organized? Was that a political

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system like.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen forty eight? No, in the Old Testament, In

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the Old Testament, yeah, it was a political society.

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Speaker 1: How is it organized? What does that have to do

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with whether it was organized in a certain way or not.

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Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with my claim.

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Speaker 1: What does the Old Testament say about how God organized

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that society?

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Speaker 2: He gave them prescriptions about how to run their life

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from Moses.

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Speaker 1: How was that society organized?

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Speaker 2: It was organized. I believe in a patriarchal society with

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matrilineal heritage.

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Speaker 1: And it was a monarchy, yes, a male monarchy yep. Okay,

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So in that regard, God was not feminist.

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Speaker 2: Right, I've never said that God was feminist.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm asking if there's a history example of where

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God organized the feminist society.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting because when you look at like

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ancient Judeo history, if you're not being presentist, it was

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like insanely progressive compared to like the Pagans around them,

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like the Assyrians and Babylonians.

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Speaker 1: That's not what I'm asking.

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Speaker 2: Well, it is what you're asking.

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Speaker 1: You're calling it progressive, and I would just say it's healthy.

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So the fact that they're.

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Speaker 2: Like God seemed to advocate to some degree for a

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better treatment of women than any other society.

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Speaker 1: But that's not feminism.

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Speaker 2: Uh, to some degree. You could argue that is if

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you agree with my definition, which is like the import But.

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Speaker 1: Your definition is so elastic and broad that it could

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be anything except for what my position is. No, I

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don't because I'm not agreeing that Old Testament patriarchal society

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is feminist. You just admit it. It's not.

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Speaker 2: If you're not agreeing, why did we even define the

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words at the beginning?

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Speaker 1: Can you name a feminist society? I'm God advocated.

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Speaker 3: I'm not interested to you appeal to God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it's a good thing to treat

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women well did God?

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Speaker 1: Ever, that's not feminism. Now you're equivocating.

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Speaker 2: I'm not equivocating, Yes you are.

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Speaker 4: How am I.

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Speaker 1: Equivocate changing the moving the goalpost is to what feminism is?

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Speaker 2: It's completely different, balance God hascating equivocating by moving the goalpost.

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Speaker 1: Now it's both. You're equivocating on the word and moving

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the goalposts to make your position work. So if there's

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no feminist, if there's no feminist, equivocating.

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Speaker 2: On the word, that's not what equivocating.

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Speaker 1: I know what equivocation means, Yes, it does. It means

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that two different unders saying of a word. You're equivocating

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on the word, Okay, feminism, and you're defining to say

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that if God in the Old Testament gives women rights,

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that's feminism. That's not what feminism is. Feminism is a

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modern movement, post.

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Speaker 2: Revolutionary my definition of feminism.

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Speaker 1: Because it's so broad that that's fine if you want

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to defend that against patriarchy. But I'm arguing patriarchy against feminism.

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Speaker 2: And what you appeal to is moving the goals, agreeing

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to a definition of feminism. And now you're saying that

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can't work anymore because it's defeating my argument.

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Speaker 1: The Old Testament God and the New Testament God are

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the same God, and they never institute a feminist society,

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and women's rights are being made in the image of God,

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that women are protected now in that status. What do

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you mean it's not feminism.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean by a feminist society.

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Speaker 1: A matriarchal society, or a non patriarchal society.

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Speaker 2: I've never advocated for either of these things.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but feminism has never been a societal goal in

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the Old Testament or the New Testament or the history

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of any Christian society.

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Speaker 2: Again, so you have.

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Speaker 1: No examples of this.

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Speaker 2: I haven't advocated for any of these things. I don't.

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Speaker 1: You appealed to God as your standard of the aught

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and the right, the moral right.

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Speaker 2: It's a moral thing to truet well.

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Speaker 1: And then I said, give me the examples of where

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that God ever institute anything like what you're talking about

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from the feminism. And there's not. There's not.

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Speaker 2: There is according to the definition you agree to you, No,

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there's not. Yeah, the empowerment promotion of femininity.

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Speaker 1: That is not what is happening in the Old test judaism.

474
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,279
Speaker 2: That is not the most progressive approach to femininity of

475
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,240
all of the.

476
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 1: Modern Rabbinic Judaism is not the same thing as what's

477
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,680
in the Mosaic law.

478
00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 2: You asked for.

479
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,599
Speaker 3: You admit, admitted, I just gave you one.

480
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:40,319
Speaker 1: That's not Rabbinic Judaism. Admitted that it's a there's a

481
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:41,240
patriarchal society.

482
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: That's what you mean. It's not you don't think Old

483
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,920
Testament Judeos.

484
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,559
Speaker 1: Like, no, it's not. It's not different.

485
00:19:47,279 --> 00:19:48,559
Speaker 2: What are you talking about.

486
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 1: It's not the same thing as you don't think that the.

487
00:19:50,839 --> 00:19:54,319
Speaker 2: Twelve hundred BC society that was erected by King David

488
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,599
wasn't wasn't a rabbinic society.

489
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 1: Rabbinic Judaism comes out of the fourth and fifth century

490
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,599
when the them in the Babylonian Helmut is collected and collated.

491
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 2: So you're saying that Old Testament is not.

492
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: Rabbinic, No, okay, and it's patriarchal. So even if it

493
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,000
was rabbinic, it wouldn't rEFInd then there's no examples of

494
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:16,720
what you're talking about.

495
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: Well, the issue for me is that what you're what

496
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:20,839
you're doing is you're creating a false econtomy. You're pretending

497
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,960
like patriarchy and feminism can't coexist to the same They cannot,

498
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:25,559
of course they can. We live in one.

499
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 1: Being feminine is not the same thing as the movement

500
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,119
of feminism.

501
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 2: I didn't say that it is. I said that.

502
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: You said that femininity is promoting the Old Testament, and

503
00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:37,359
you use that as a way.

504
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 2: To prove your position that it empowered women and it

505
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:43,400
promoted femininity. It empowered women by creating matulinal lines of inheritance,

506
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,640
and it promoted femininity by making a whole bunch of

507
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,039
female figures be viewed as these like incredible characters to

508
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,000
look up to, like Ruth and Debron and stuff like that.

509
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 1: Okay, well there's a plenty. According to the.

510
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 2: Definition you agreed to, one feminism would be feminism.

511
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:58,759
Speaker 1: Then it wasn't quote progressive according to your view, because

512
00:20:58,759 --> 00:21:01,160
other societies worship the Oddists, and that would be more

513
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,640
progressive than what you said.

514
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,319
Speaker 2: If you want, we can go back an hour and

515
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,480
we can redo chatter, and you can make a new

516
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:08,880
definition for feminism that you like more so that you

517
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,720
can apply it more narrowly if you'd like.

518
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 1: You have moved the goalposts. I have not what feminism is.

519
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 3: I wrote it down to anything.

520
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,559
Speaker 1: That, so is the goddess feminism?

521
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,599
Speaker 2: I don't know what is.

522
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: Goddess worship in the ancient pagan world. Is that feminism?

523
00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: It might be okay, I don't know your view.

524
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:32,799
Speaker 1: So your position is so elastic that it could encompass any.

525
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: Possible Why did you agree to it?

526
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: It's unfault because the way you you've framed it was

527
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,559
anti patriarchy, and I'm finding I.

528
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: Did not frame it that the.

529
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,839
Speaker 1: Terms of this debate. I want to go back and

530
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,599
feminism or is patriarchy?

531
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: I wrote it down? Do you want to go The

532
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:46,640
fact that you.

533
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,599
Speaker 1: Wrote it down just means that you wrote you misunderstand

534
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,279
what you wrote down.

535
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,319
Speaker 2: No, that's even dumber the issue the issue, rather than

536
00:21:53,319 --> 00:21:55,599
you're just being bad faith for no reason.

537
00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:57,319
Speaker 1: No, this is good. You don't know what you don't

538
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,240
even know what an internal critique is, So I'm not

539
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,680
being bad faith and debating for twenty five years completely.

540
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: It's completely fine to know what terms are.

541
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: Right, sure, but in terms of debate, that's like one

542
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,240
on one knowing what an internal critique is.

543
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: I understand what consistency checks are. I just didn't use

544
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,960
the language internal critique. Right, So if we want to

545
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,680
go back an hour, you agreed to this idea of chatter, right,

546
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,279
how we want to define concepts, agree to them so

547
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:23,640
that we can talk about idea.

548
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,079
Speaker 1: Y's or chatter. I'm just kidding. Go ahead.

549
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 2: So if you agree to that, and then you agree

550
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,759
to the terms, you can change them later. I'm just

551
00:22:35,799 --> 00:22:37,519
going to be good faith. You can change them later

552
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:40,079
if you want to. Let's just go back to the

553
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,079
terms again and narrow it down to what we can

554
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,559
agree to of what feminism and patriarchy means, because now

555
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:47,559
all you're doing.

556
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: I gave a very precise definition for patriarchy, right.

557
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: Sure I did.

558
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: And you gave a very loose definition as to what

559
00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:58,240
you think feminism is, which could encompass conceivably anything that

560
00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:01,359
helps women, and that's an ambiguity fallacy.

561
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,559
Speaker 2: Then provided different definition, don't agree to it.

562
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: In my opening statement, I said that I believe feminism

563
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:12,279
is a revolutionary philosophy that destroys society. It was brought

564
00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:16,240
about to change society in Toto and ultimately to serve

565
00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:20,079
into oligarchical designs and people who and I gave sources.

566
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,440
You can read the rock Fellers authorisbiography. They have a

567
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,319
whole discussion of Abby rock Piller funding third wave feminism,

568
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,359
and how.

569
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: Is this not just as ambiguous as the way it's

570
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:30,319
just a revenue.

571
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,799
Speaker 1: This is ambiguous. I'm literally giving you the people who

572
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:34,960
funded it and the actual names of the people.

573
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: Like, none of this matters.

574
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,519
Speaker 1: No, that's not an authority. That's the people involved. It's

575
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:43,400
not an authority. Peop.

576
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, if the people an authority Pill funded them is

577
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:47,640
an authority for.

578
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: The people Abby Rockefeller, it's not.

579
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: Why are you citing them?

580
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: It's a person who's in the movement, is not just

581
00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:57,240
the funder.

582
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: You're appealing to authority.

583
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: You don't know what an appeal to. That's a fact.

584
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:01,599
It's not an appeal to authority.

585
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,319
Speaker 2: You don't know what them a definition of feminism.

586
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:06,839
Speaker 1: That's not an appeal to authority.

587
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 2: Yes it is.

588
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:09,519
Speaker 1: No, it's not. You don't know what an appeal to.

589
00:24:10,039 --> 00:24:13,319
If I said my position is true because I cite

590
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,880
the Rockefellers, that would be an appeal to authority. And

591
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,319
that's a fallacy.

592
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: Definition evidence because of the Rockefellers.

593
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: If you want, no, I'm not I'm telling you if

594
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,599
the history of the movement which you don't even know.

595
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,519
Speaker 2: Again, I've asked you to define feminism, and now I'm.

596
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: Giving you the history of that movement, which is three waves.

597
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,039
Why can't you give me a Are there three waves

598
00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:36,680
of feminism?

599
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,519
Speaker 2: There's four?

600
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's three? You didn't know that. That's crazy.

601
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,240
So there are three? Correct, there's four, right, But that

602
00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:46,200
would mean there's also three even though there's a four

603
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,000
threat that's true.

604
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,319
Speaker 2: Three is less than four.

605
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: I know that. But the fact that there's four, there's

606
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,039
still three that have happened.

607
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,319
Speaker 2: Right, irrelevant to any modern.

608
00:24:56,599 --> 00:24:57,839
Speaker 1: Is that an appeal to authority?

609
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: What authority am I citing right now?

610
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: I know you're citing facts that you think are appeal

611
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:03,559
to authority.

612
00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 2: Have I cited? Name one? Name one authority I've cited, Jay,

613
00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:10,599
you think name one authority? I don't understand, name one

614
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,519
authority I've cited.

615
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm making a joke because you think appealing to a

616
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:15,759
fact is appeal to authority.

617
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:16,599
Speaker 3: Those are two different things.

618
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,799
Speaker 2: Not true in fact, when you were citing, when you're

619
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:24,559
citing Rockefeller as the definition for feminists, no, there is

620
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:27,039
not the definition, you idiot, And why are you appealing

621
00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:27,759
to them in any way?

622
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: That prove the history of the movement. You know what

623
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,720
it teaches is Yes, I just gave you the example

624
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,039
I gave I've been abating for twenty five years. I

625
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:37,680
know what they pilled authority is. That's one right there.

626
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So the authority to appeal to irrelevant people. That

627
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,279
sounds not irrelevant relevant The history womanism is irrelevant to

628
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,559
you giving me a definition of femine.

629
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,599
Speaker 1: It is that I can Is it a historical movement?

630
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: You give me?

631
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: Is it a historical movement? Yeah, of course, then the

632
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:55,799
history is relevant to the definition.

633
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: You idiot, and give me the definition. You can do it, Jay,

634
00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,960
you can do it, j I believe it.

635
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:01,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking to a five year old.

636
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're a big boy. So this should be

637
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:06,079
really easy for you to find. Feminism, go ahead.

638
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,039
Speaker 1: Feminism is a historical movement that's concerned with the rights

639
00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,240
of women, including egalitarianism, the idea that women and men

640
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,000
are equal. If we go back to Wollstonecraft, if we

641
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:20,400
go back to the suffrage movement, if we go back

642
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,759
to the notion of women not being married at certain

643
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:28,039
ages as children. So the first wave wanted not just suffragism,

644
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,880
but they also wanted to not have child brides and

645
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,559
that kind of stuff.

646
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of you.

647
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:38,279
Speaker 1: Shut up and let me finish. I'm not done. Get done.

648
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:43,440
They also wanted better work hours, They wanted women to

649
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,960
have inheritance rights. They wanted women to be able to

650
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,519
get jobs, and they went to women in the workforce

651
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,559
and to be in positions that they didn't have. So

652
00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:57,759
they wanted certain social rights that women like voting right,

653
00:26:57,839 --> 00:26:59,839
suffrage right. Those are all first wave.

654
00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, this is your definition of feminism. Okay, I'm

655
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:04,880
writing it down.

656
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,599
Speaker 1: Are you serious?

657
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: Look, I'm so dumb for the history of it. I

658
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,119
didn't ask you for the history. I did ask you

659
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,400
for You.

660
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,599
Speaker 1: Said that it's historical, okay, and I'm giving you the movements.

661
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: I'm not asking for the history.

662
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 3: I'm asking you said it is historically.

663
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,079
Speaker 1: So I have to go back to the people. Know

664
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,599
you're so dumb that you can't conceive of a position

665
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:24,119
apart from the people.

666
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,839
Speaker 2: Something came up with the position so Israel. I can

667
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:31,359
define Israel without going through the entire history of Israel

668
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:34,799
feminism while it doesn't. Actually you can, of course you can.

669
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: This is so you admitted it's a historical movement, Therefore

670
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,440
it can't be divorced from the people in history. I'm

671
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,920
not asking do you think it came out of the

672
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,720
sky to come into people's minds out of the sky

673
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,759
or from the people.

674
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:50,039
Speaker 2: You're doing a false dichotomy again, what.

675
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,039
Speaker 1: Are you You don't hear you're acting like.

676
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,319
Speaker 2: You're acting like you can't define it without the history.

677
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm telling correct, it's a historical movement by your own definition.

678
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,759
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you can't make a definition for

679
00:27:58,839 --> 00:27:59,279
the worst.

680
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,559
Speaker 1: So you have to to the people. Where do you

681
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:04,720
think words come from from people? That they don't drop

682
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:06,200
out of the sky, they come from people.

683
00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:08,559
Speaker 2: I know you can do this. You can define a

684
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,359
word without giving me a five on history?

685
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: No you can't.

686
00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: So there's no way for you to define feminists.

687
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,759
Speaker 1: Would you go to a dictionary? That's an appeal to authority.

688
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: It's not an okay. There are appeal to authorities that

689
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:23,559
are fallacious, and there are appeal to authorities that are not.

690
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: Like when I give the examples of the rocket funders of.

691
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: It is not an appeal.

692
00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: It's not just a thunder. Abbey was involved in Cell sixteen.

693
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,119
She's not just a.

694
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: Funder that doesn't matter.

695
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: It does because it came from them.

696
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that she's a relevant authority to cite.

697
00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:41,559
Speaker 1: The one who funded it and got it going at

698
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:43,079
Chicago University.

699
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: Is of the third wave. Yes, that doesn't mean that

700
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:46,559
it comes.

701
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Out of her money. No, that does, millions of dollars

702
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:49,720
at Chicago University.

703
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that she's the definer of feminists.

704
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,119
Speaker 1: I didn't say she was, said she.

705
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 7: Incited her as a definer femin she's involved in the

706
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:57,440
third wave movement.

707
00:28:58,839 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: You're so stupid.

708
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,039
Speaker 2: I've got three things from you so far. Rights of women,

709
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,359
men and women. Are you admitted labor rights.

710
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: I mentioned in terms of first wave feminism, I mentioned

711
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,880
child age of marriage as another element of it. In

712
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,039
terms of the first wave.

713
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Civil rights, let's just call those civil rights.

714
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: That's not civil rights. It's prior to the civil rights movement,

715
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,160
you idiot.

716
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that it's not civil rights. Jay, I'm

717
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:29,400
just trying to create a way to make this succinct

718
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,759
so we can get a fucking definition because you don't

719
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,279
like mine, which is fine, I said, that's why.

720
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:35,799
Speaker 1: I'm just.

721
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,799
Speaker 2: That's fine, make your own.

722
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: I'm giving the history. I don't need it's my own definition.

723
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:46,400
It's your position. You goof us. You debate positions like

724
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,519
when you debated Jimbob, and you tell people to define

725
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:51,640
your position. This is how silly you are. No, Ja,

726
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,880
I gave a broad definition, gave.

727
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: You a definition, and which is too That's fine, make

728
00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:59,519
your own definition and then we can MA.

729
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,319
Speaker 1: Yes you do.

730
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: If you have rejected my definition, you now have to

731
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:04,880
supply one.

732
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to the people who came up with

733
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,319
it correct. Didn't come up with it, I said Mary

734
00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:12,359
walstone Craft in my opening statement, is one of the

735
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:14,799
first feminists in modern society.

736
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,119
Speaker 2: Do you want a supply definition? This doesn't matter, Ja,

737
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:21,079
just any definition.

738
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: The people who came up with it don't matter.

739
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: They matter if you can get to getting a definition

740
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,279
out of your fucking mouth. We've got we've got four

741
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:31,880
elements of feminism now, okay, so we've got rights of

742
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,720
women like men and women are equal, galitarianism, labor rights,

743
00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:38,960
and civil rights. Is there anything else you would like

744
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,960
to add to that definition?

745
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: As we move into modernity, we get more radical versions

746
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:48,000
of this, particularly with Cell sixteen, which becomes almost a

747
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,920
revolutionary terrorist movement which it wants to engage in radical

748
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,200
action and skittles rights, shall we say, so they move

749
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:58,960
into it being skittles as well. Okay, So I don't

750
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,880
care if you reject. I don't care if you reject

751
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,720
that or accept that. I because I'm looking at this

752
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,359
as a historical movement, because guess what, feminism is a

753
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,319
historical movement, that's what we're debating.

754
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: You might not believe me, Jay, So, so I'm so

755
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,160
disappointed about this conversation. I talked about chatter because I was.

756
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: Interested in a good discuss saying chatter doesn't have anything

757
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,440
to do with the fact that I did an internal

758
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,440
critique and you didn't know what that was. And then

759
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,920
I started going to the history of feminism.

760
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: Right now you're just saying I'm just saying stuff. Yeah,

761
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,720
there we go. So going to chatter. The reason I

762
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:32,160
asked you about it is so that we could have

763
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,839
a decently good conversation, so that we weren't quibbling over

764
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,200
the definition of words and we could actually engage in conversation.

765
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:40,920
If if the only way that you can debate for

766
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,839
the last twenty five years is to just quibble about

767
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,440
semantics of words, I'm sorry, you're not a king debater.

768
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:48,960
You're just bad face.

769
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,319
Speaker 1: You asked me for the last thirty minutes to define

770
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:54,960
a word. So you're the one who's quibbling about semantics.

771
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,759
Speaker 2: I'm literally not quibbling. I am writing down your words.

772
00:31:57,759 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: Oh so, if I'm writing it down.

773
00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:02,759
Speaker 2: It's not semantics because I'm just granting.

774
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: Your defination semantics. No, it's not.

775
00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: It's not semantic debating because I'm not disagreeing with you

776
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,480
on your definition. I'm literally begging you to just give

777
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:13,359
me one. I'm begging you at this point because you

778
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,799
don't like mine, So let's give yours.

779
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:19,559
Speaker 1: I don't care what your definition is, because all I

780
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:22,880
have to do is critique your position internally.

781
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: And points out you to do my definition. If you're

782
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:28,119
going to do an internal critique, that's the fundamental of

783
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,559
a fucking internal critique, is that now you do know

784
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:31,400
about So you.

785
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,599
Speaker 1: Just learned about an internal critique about ten minutes ago,

786
00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:35,279
and now you're going to lecture me on it.

787
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: You're a really good teacher, Jay, Can I say so debates?

788
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:41,920
You do care about it. You do care about feminism

789
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,720
and my definition of it because you need it for

790
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:45,640
the internal critique, which you've already I don't.

791
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: Care about it because now you've rejected.

792
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,759
Speaker 2: My definition of feminism. So again, I know being mean

793
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:56,160
to women, Isaack go, it's not an ad hobin. And

794
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,759
I didn't say you're to you. I mean, I didn't

795
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,319
say you're wrong because being an asshole. I just said

796
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:02,000
you're an asshole.

797
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: Now you're getting your feelings.

798
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: That's not an ad hominem. My feelings are no insulting people,

799
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,319
and being mean is an ad home. You should know this.

800
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,400
You can google it. Google it at home and at

801
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,400
home is when you use the insult of a person

802
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:16,039
to discredit them. So if I said, Jay, you're wrong

803
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,680
because you're mean now in mad harming you. As a

804
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:21,039
debate bro of twenty five years, you should know your

805
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:26,240
fallacies better. You've already been wrong about multiple fallacies. Really,

806
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,759
and you can't yes, and you can't define feminism. Do

807
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:29,559
you want to get there?

808
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: I've already You've already admitted that I gave you four elements.

809
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: It seems like you have four five.

810
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 7: Actually, I think that the actually thing that you want

811
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,559
to ask you actually think like or you maybe a

812
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:42,440
one hundred IQ person, that the way that you define

813
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:44,960
something is you literally just look at a definition and

814
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,119
a dictionary and then you just list it out and

815
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,759
that's the definition of the word.

816
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:49,759
Speaker 1: That's all.

817
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I've never seen it.

818
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: Because I'm giving you the entire context of the history

819
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,240
of feminism and you're saying, fucking definition as we're working

820
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,599
through the actual history of it and the definition of

821
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,119
what it is.

822
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: To give me.

823
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:05,079
Speaker 1: You admitted that it's a historical movement.

824
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,279
Speaker 2: That has nothing to do with you. You're giving me

825
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:07,880
a definition.

826
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: We admit that it's a historical, of course, so the

827
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,360
history has to do with it, you idiots.

828
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,199
Speaker 2: I don't need the history for you to give me

829
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:16,760
a definition.

830
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: You have to go to the people who are the

831
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,199
philosophers of it. You can just like Mary wollstone Craft

832
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,000
and her position. You can just like egalitarianism.

833
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 2: You can just define it.

834
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm defining for you. I've been defining. Can you just

835
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,239
keep yapping and melting down over your no?

836
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: Well, the issue is that it has taken me pushing

837
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,519
you to be specific over and over for forty five minutes.

838
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:38,719
We have five points now.

839
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: Because you don't have anything other than this that's false.

840
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: How does any of this definition prove.

841
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,639
Speaker 1: Your position that feminism is good for society as a feminist.

842
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: Can you're showing.

843
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: Us that you're not good for society. So you're actually

844
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,920
proving my point as you yap and argue, you're.

845
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: Not actually example of ano.

846
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,079
Speaker 1: That is an act, but it's an illustrative ad hominem. Yes,

847
00:34:59,239 --> 00:34:59,639
that's true.

848
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: It was a very creative at home. Okay, So we

849
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:03,960
have five points that you would like to define feminism. Is

850
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,239
there any other points that you want to define feminism with?

851
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:07,519
Speaker 1: Yes?

852
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: Anything.

853
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,079
Speaker 1: People who funded that also said that they like the

854
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:14,599
movement because it destroys the nuclear family, gets women in

855
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:18,679
the workforce, taxes the other half of the population, and

856
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,039
reduces the population because there's less families.

857
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: How do you want to summarize that construction of family?

858
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: You can't remember four sentences.

859
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 2: I just know I can remember. I just want to like,

860
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,159
you're such a You're just very yappy, and so I'd

861
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:36,280
like to make it systinct. Yes, you to give me

862
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,280
a definition. You've had to give me an entire century's

863
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,760
worth of history, even though, like.

864
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,079
Speaker 1: When you admitted that it's a historical movement, so it can't.

865
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: Be what you could have done. You could have just

866
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,480
said to me so that we can move forward to

867
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:49,679
this conversation. Feminism is, But I'm not.

868
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:55,519
Speaker 1: Going to transfer simple answers in a debate.

869
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,639
Speaker 2: Why would you just define a word.

870
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: I don't owe you a definition.

871
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 5: Maybe we could avoid some of the insults, and if

872
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,480
we can also allow people to to finish their thought,

873
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,280
let's try to Okay, are you to interruptions?

874
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: But go ahead? Yeah, you want to know how this

875
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,360
any of this helps your case to prove feminism is

876
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,159
good for society.

877
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,679
Speaker 2: Well, we can get there now that we've defined feminism.

878
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,000
So destruction of nuclear family is another one that you

879
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,679
would like to add to the definition of feminism.

880
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,079
Speaker 1: That's why the people who fund it matter is because

881
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:26,840
they say that.

882
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I would argue that the destruction of nuclear families

883
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,800
is not inherent to most feminist movements and is bad.

884
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,960
So I reject that part of your definition.

885
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,559
Speaker 1: So the people who want that in society and say

886
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,400
that it does that don't matter because you.

887
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 2: Have that, they're not the feminism that I'm fighting.

888
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: Because you have a definition that is so elastic to

889
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,679
make it anything that you think helps women. And that's

890
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:49,760
why I've said you've already lost a debate because you're

891
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,880
a last the.

892
00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:55,079
Speaker 2: Will you define. That's why women of promotion of femininity.

893
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:58,159
So empowerment means that we're moving on ambiguous and promotion

894
00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,679
of feminist It would be like making femin in traits

895
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,679
viewed as respectworthy.

896
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: Like submitting to authority and men. Is that a feminine trait?

897
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 3: No, I would Oh, so it's not clear.

898
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:09,039
Speaker 1: It's ambiguous.

899
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,199
Speaker 2: Submission is you have to define it. I would say

900
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:15,239
submissions feminine, but I don't. I don't think to men specifically.

901
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,760
It would be like to any authority, right to any authority.

902
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, are most authority men?

903
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:22,119
Speaker 2: A lot of them are, but some would be men.

904
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:27,679
It would be too authority. Men are the class class.

905
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,119
Speaker 1: The most authorities are men, and they are submitting to

906
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:34,679
that right that so, so it would be the idea.

907
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,639
Speaker 2: Okay, you love semantics.

908
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:38,599
Speaker 1: W No, it's called a debate.

909
00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: I can do that too. If you want to, just

910
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,480
like mock you every time you stutter, we can.

911
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: It's just how debates work. I'm sorry.

912
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:47,159
Speaker 2: When they stutter is not part of debate. This is

913
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:47,599
not rhetoric.

914
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: This is just being you're watching Oxford Union debate, they

915
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,079
make fun of each other.

916
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm fine, you're making fun of each other. Okay, would

917
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,199
you like to have a productive conversation too, or do

918
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,519
you want to just make If I'm having a great day,

919
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:02,960
that's fine, we can just continue to circle.

920
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: And how does this prove feminism is good for society?

921
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,039
Speaker 2: Okay, so I already said I would reject the destruction

922
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,519
of nuclear family. I don't think it's central to most feminism.

923
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: I think most, especially central to sixteen.

924
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: It sounds like it was, But I would say most

925
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,280
Fourth Wave feminists, for example, are not very pro destruction

926
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,239
of nuclear family. In fact, there's like an entire like

927
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,639
barefoot Pregnant movement within the Fourth Wave that is very

928
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,400
much about embracing being pregnant, being motherhood, and like promoting

929
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,079
that as a good thing.

930
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,519
Speaker 1: Is that the attitude that most feminists in society have.

931
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:34,679
Speaker 2: I would say a lot of young feminists are directly.

932
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:37,679
Speaker 1: The most I wouldn't know they're not.

933
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,039
Speaker 2: Most also don't want to destroy the nuclear family.

934
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:43,119
Speaker 7: Well in academia, and most feminists want to get married

935
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:43,800
and have kids.

936
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: Does this worldview promote in general in society, in academia

937
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,960
and in the corporate world, the destruction of the family,

938
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:52,760
or does it not that.

939
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: It tends to promote it? Yeah, they want women to

940
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:57,519
be mothers.

941
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: Who can aller feminism promotes when in society in.

942
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: General, I would say fourth wave feminism is very pro

943
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,719
mother Yeah.

944
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:07,519
Speaker 1: I asked you about the majority of feminism to most

945
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:09,800
feminists are fourth wave institutionalized.

946
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,039
Speaker 2: Yet most constitutional academics are.

947
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: Fourth wave there and they want people to have kids. Yes,

948
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,079
they're not anti.

949
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,039
Speaker 2: Natalists, some of them are, but most of them institutions.

950
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:19,679
Speaker 1: Yes, No, that's crazy.

951
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. I've been reading lots.

952
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: Of I've been in academy. I've been an institute too.

953
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,400
I've never met a feminist in academ or institutions who

954
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,639
thinks that there should be more people and more kids.

955
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,079
They all believe in depopulation, the ones that I've.

956
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,559
Speaker 2: Met, that's crazy. I've just met lots of feminists that

957
00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:36,320
don't believe that. And regardless those feminists who who are

958
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,159
like basically death cult feminists. I'm not interested in advocating

959
00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:39,760
for the worldview.

960
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:40,199
Speaker 1: That's fine.

961
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: I don't have to own that.

962
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: But the history of feminists, like you don't have to

963
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,559
most Protestant most feminism, right, So you've got a nuanced feminism,

964
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:47,719
I guess, is your take, right?

965
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: I just have like a pretty traditional like fourth wave feminism.

966
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so but it's not historic feminism, right or is

967
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:55,400
it first wave?

968
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: It's fourth wave. So it's tied to history, of course,

969
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,039
because there's way it is history. Yeah, but the waves.

970
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:03,760
But the essentials of the waves is that they're I've

971
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,519
never ever said that feminism isn't tied to history. You've

972
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:07,320
just made that up.

973
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: I think we could go back about twenty minutes, so

974
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:11,920
you can do what I do, and we go back

975
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,159
twenty minutes. When you said that the history doesn't matter

976
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:15,119
for your.

977
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,559
Speaker 2: Definition, it doesn't matter. You can hold you.

978
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: For just literally you have double thinking. Have you read

979
00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:21,679
nineteen eighty four?

980
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: You can hold right.

981
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: You know what double think is is the ability to

982
00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:27,079
contradict within a couple of minutes.

983
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: I didn't contradict. If you remember, we can roll back

984
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:31,800
the tape. We were talking about defense.

985
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: I think definitions are wrong.

986
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: Finish my thought or are you just gonna interrupt.

987
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: Me because I'm trying to Can I.

988
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: Finish my thought?

989
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: Trying to hone in on I thought this weird mistake

990
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,280
is because it's weird, guys.

991
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 5: If we can at least we'll let the insults go.

992
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:46,079
If you guys want to insult each other, we'll allow that,

993
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,519
but at least let each other finish. Okay, their thoughts

994
00:40:48,559 --> 00:40:48,920
go ahead.

995
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: Okay. The reason that we went into the history and

996
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,840
why I said I don't care about the history is

997
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,519
I was asking for a functional definition so we could

998
00:40:56,639 --> 00:41:00,000
move past that part of the conversation. I always acknowledg

999
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:02,039
that history was part of the feminist movement, and it's

1000
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:02,719
tied to I.

1001
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: Reject that there is a definition divorce from history.

1002
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: I've never said that there's a definition divorce from history.

1003
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,639
I said, I don't figure you that. I don't need

1004
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:15,800
the history lesson. I doubt need. You got to let

1005
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:16,119
me finish.

1006
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: You ask me, because you're lying. You asked you. You said,

1007
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,480
divorce from history? What is your definition? That's what you said.

1008
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like thetan.

1009
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,559
Speaker 1: Thank you. So you just contradicted yourself.

1010
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:28,639
Speaker 2: No, I did contradict myself a machine of You're desperate.

1011
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:30,960
You're so desperate, You're like, God, how do I get

1012
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,280
this win? I asked for you just stop giving me

1013
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,639
all of the history and just give me a definition

1014
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:37,039
so we.

1015
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: Can know that there is a definition divorce from history

1016
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:40,800
and you just admitted that.

1017
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have the brain capacity to define

1018
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,360
something without a five minute monologue.

1019
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: About You just admitted you can't do that.

1020
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: Define Israel, are you going to go back three thousand years?

1021
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,599
Speaker 1: Yes, because it's an ancient historical nation.

1022
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: So you can't define Israel without giving me a ten

1023
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,320
minute moment.

1024
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: It's a false analogy because feminism is a modernist movement.

1025
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:04,199
It's a modern movement that is not an ancient civilization. Matter,

1026
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,159
it does matter. You're just saying it doesn't matter.

1027
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: Just shows your lack time is not all a false analogy?

1028
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: Extend you melting down right now because you contradicted.

1029
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,679
Speaker 2: Yourself melting down to you said that you're twenty five

1030
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,159
years of debate history and you can't and you can't

1031
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:19,079
get a single fallace.

1032
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:21,119
Speaker 1: Ok, you're melting down, Spiral.

1033
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,159
Speaker 2: How is that a false analogy? How is it a

1034
00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:24,079
false analogy? Jay?

1035
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: Because it's a modern movement, it's not an ancient civilization.

1036
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: What does that have to do with anything when it

1037
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,480
comes to comparing contradicted your definition and.

1038
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: In debates contradictions.

1039
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,079
Speaker 2: What may the false analogy?

1040
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:37,159
Speaker 1: How is that how you lose the debate? Correct? How

1041
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:38,760
is it contradicting is where you.

1042
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: You debate and define Israel without giving me the centuries

1043
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:42,800
of history. Is that what you're telling me?

1044
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. You just said that.

1045
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 2: You said it's a false analogy. You said the false analogy.

1046
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:47,760
I've never said that.

1047
00:42:48,119 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: You said that. You're you're yapping because you got caught.

1048
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: I didn't get caught.

1049
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:57,679
Speaker 1: You did again, you said that history, you said history

1050
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,920
doesn't matter. Give me your definition, and then you just

1051
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:02,559
said history matters. It's part of the definition.

1052
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,519
Speaker 2: I did contradicted you not say history matters as part

1053
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:08,559
of you know, yes you did. Part of debating. Part

1054
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:12,840
of debating is holding frame? Right would you agree?

1055
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: Like when you did that, is that holding frame or

1056
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:17,840
what is that?

1057
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 2: No, that was making fun of you, obviously, So part

1058
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,199
of debating is holding frame.

1059
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: Like putting dogs in your mouth? Is that holding frame?

1060
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's funny, Like, yeah, we're all laughing

1061
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,599
about it, Yes, laughing at you kind of the same thing.

1062
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:35,679
That's kind of what performers do, right, Yeah, So part

1063
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:36,719
of debating is holding.

1064
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: Is any of thats going to prove that feminists was

1065
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,000
good for society?

1066
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: Because you can't get there because you're still you make

1067
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,360
my case. I'm not making your case again, just an

1068
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:46,960
ad home.

1069
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 3: You love fallacies, that's good.

1070
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 2: My favorite thing about you is that you cite fallacies constantly.

1071
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,519
You don't know what they mean, and you can't define

1072
00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:54,920
them properly.

1073
00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: How history is not part of feminism?

1074
00:43:57,159 --> 00:44:03,519
Speaker 2: Is fouse analogy to compare Israel? Defining Israel because it's.

1075
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:09,159
Speaker 1: An ancient state. Feminism is a modern political, social revolutionary movement.

1076
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:10,000
They don't compare.

1077
00:44:10,199 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 2: So why does the extent of the land of history

1078
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:14,079
make them disnalogous?

1079
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:17,039
Speaker 1: You've already lost the debate because you admitted that the

1080
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:20,639
definition can't be divorced from the history, and then you

1081
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:24,679
said the opposite. That means you've massively contradicted yourself within

1082
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:25,559
the last five minutes.

1083
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: Again, you're just making it up. I'm glad that the

1084
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,440
made up nor heard you all is Jay just lost

1085
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,840
the debate because you're strawm ating me and putting words

1086
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,599
in my mouth that didn't happen. Wow, I'm really good

1087
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:39,440
at debating. Do you want to go back to the

1088
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,360
actual conversation?

1089
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: Sure?

1090
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So why is it falsely analogous when you're saying

1091
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,719
that to define words you must include the entire history

1092
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,320
to define the word. Why is it dis analogous to

1093
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,400
compare feminism to Israel. I asked you to define feminism,

1094
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,639
and I asked you to define Israel, and I asked

1095
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:59,239
you if you could define his without the three centuries

1096
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,920
of history, and you said, well, it's different.

1097
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 1: It's a false analogy, false analogy. Why is it a

1098
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,639
false analogy because they're two totally different things. And you

1099
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,440
already admitted that feminism is a historical movement and that

1100
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:15,000
it can and can't be divorced from the history, So

1101
00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:17,800
is Israel. That's making my point.

1102
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 3: You goof us, No, it's not.

1103
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:23,559
Speaker 2: I'm saying you can obviously define Israel without going through

1104
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:26,519
three centuries, which you agreed to. That's why you don't

1105
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:30,519
false analogy, because you don't define Israel with the three centuries.

1106
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: Because it's just it's just long. Ancient.

1107
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,199
Speaker 2: Modern feminism only has one hundred years, So I can

1108
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,840
give the history of that, but I can't give the

1109
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,920
history of Israel to define it because it's too long. Essentially,

1110
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,800
that's your argument, that's what Yes, that is your argument.

1111
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,960
It is not falsely analogous. And also, comparing two different

1112
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,239
things is the point of fucking en that you talk.

1113
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,039
Speaker 1: It makes my whole case here that feminism is a

1114
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:54,559
net negative for society. Thank you for representing.

1115
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,079
Speaker 2: All you're doing is making me be like, maybe the

1116
00:45:57,159 --> 00:45:58,639
rad friends are right and men got to be out

1117
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:00,760
of power because they cannot keep if this is what

1118
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,599
like two masters philosophy?

1119
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: Right, you literally contradicted yourself with that.

1120
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: I think, right, don't go to college, guys, You're gonna

1121
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,840
end up like, it's not good.

1122
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: I don't recommend people go to college, by the way,

1123
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,280
because you are the people that teach at college. So

1124
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,639
you're actually you're like the college professors I debated the women.

1125
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:20,480
I debated, you're like them, So they should go to

1126
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:22,519
college if you want them to be in your position.

1127
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: Right, No, if they end up anything like you, they

1128
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,679
should definitely not go to college. You're like, I had

1129
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,079
a philosophy degree and I don't know what stallasies are.

1130
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: Did I say that? Was that a cut down?

1131
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1132
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 1: Good one. Try again.

1133
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:41,599
Speaker 5: This would be a perfect moment to read a couple

1134
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,800
of chats. Here we have Kat, who gifted fifty memberships.

1135
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,000
Thank you so much, Kat, Guys, w's in the chat

1136
00:46:47,199 --> 00:46:50,320
for Kat. Thank for the gifted fifty whatever memberships. Robert Tanner,

1137
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,440
thank for the gifted fifty whatever memberships. Thank you so much.

1138
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,719
We also have Rachel Wilson in the building thing for

1139
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:57,960
the gifted five memberships.

1140
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,559
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.

1141
00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:00,079
Speaker 5: And then we have a couple of chats coming in

1142
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,920
here through the stream labs. Let me get those pulled

1143
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,000
up if you guys want to get a message in.

1144
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:09,800
It's uh ninety nine dollars and up we have Intel Wild.

1145
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,519
It's coming in as a TTS.

1146
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,599
Speaker 6: Wild donated one hundred dollars. Not so bright. Do you

1147
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:18,400
like BDSM because you are getting spanked by j.

1148
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: Classic when you can't defeat a woman, you just have

1149
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,679
to sexually when.

1150
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: You do the dongs in your mouth like that? Is

1151
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,800
that a good example what you're talking about? So you

1152
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,800
put dongs in your mouth?

1153
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: It's funny you can't defeat a woman without sexually degrading

1154
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,119
her and then making a joke like when you put

1155
00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:34,719
dogs in your mouth?

1156
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,119
Speaker 1: Does that sexually degrading by yourself? Okay? Right, So it's

1157
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:39,559
all subjective like relativism.

1158
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: Usually you can make jokes about yourself that.

1159
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: You believe in relativism too. Yeah, I do really is

1160
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,239
it self refuting?

1161
00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:46,079
Speaker 2: Nope.

1162
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:48,639
Speaker 1: Is relativism true.

1163
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,159
Speaker 2: Depends on what you mean by true?

1164
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: Is any Is everything relative?

1165
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: Yes, but that doesn't mean it's like subjective.

1166
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: It means the same thing. It doesn't mean it does

1167
00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:02,400
something being totally relative means that it is subjective.

1168
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,639
Speaker 2: No, that's I'm sorry. That is like a philosophy.

1169
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: Want to list it's correct philosophy one on one you

1170
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,639
would learn that if something is completely relative, then it's

1171
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:14,599
purely subjective. It's the same. No, yes, it is.

1172
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 2: You're conflating subjectivism to cultural relativism.

1173
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 7: At best, I know the difference between the opposite of relativism.

1174
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: Your position is the opposite relative. You've already now that

1175
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,760
you've admitted that everything is relative, What.

1176
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,119
Speaker 2: Do you think? What do you think it is opposite

1177
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:29,760
of relative stemic relativism.

1178
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,039
Speaker 1: There's cultural relativism. There's ethical relativism.

1179
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: That's broadly the opposite of relativism.

1180
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,559
Speaker 1: Everything is relative to your vantage point, your perspective, perspect No,

1181
00:48:37,679 --> 00:48:38,880
it's not, you're an idiot.

1182
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: It's absolutism.

1183
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:42,519
Speaker 1: It's not a Relativism is not absolutism.

1184
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: No, the opposite of relativism is more it's objectivism.

1185
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 3: No, it is the idiots. You don't never had you.

1186
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1187
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

1188
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,679
Speaker 1: I've debated all the topics philosophers.

1189
00:48:55,079 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: And you I didn't expect that you should. Definitely.

1190
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: The opposite of relativism is is objectivism.

1191
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: It's absolutism.

1192
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: It means the same thing, no reality, Yes it does,

1193
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,840
it does not. Do you have a problem with words

1194
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,199
that you think that two different words can't mean the

1195
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:10,679
same thing.

1196
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,159
Speaker 2: Okay. Moral absolutism is when you can apply things universally.

1197
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:18,320
Objectivism is that something can be like capital T true.

1198
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: You can use the thing, you can use the terminal.

1199
00:49:21,039 --> 00:49:25,480
You're a Yes, they are moral objectivism. What is that?

1200
00:49:26,119 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: Moral objectivism is believing that there's like a capital T

1201
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,400
true confined. That's not the same thing.

1202
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,199
Speaker 1: No, no, it's not moral objectivism. You don't know what you're

1203
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:38,400
talking about. Moral objectivism is that there are moral absolutes.

1204
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,159
It's that simple. No, yes, what do you mean?

1205
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:46,159
Speaker 3: No, it's crazy moral.

1206
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: So now she wants to run at water.

1207
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 2: No, I'm not running. I'm actually just i'm gobsmacks.

1208
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because I'm genuine.

1209
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,119
Speaker 3: Because you have a basically student, you.

1210
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:58,039
Speaker 1: Have us essentially you have an elementary school level education,

1211
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:00,599
and you're actually debating people who actually which is philosophy?

1212
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:04,119
Speaker 2: Is crazy because despite my little education, you still don't

1213
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:08,880
know what relativism is versus like absolutism and objectivism. That's fine.

1214
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: I've debated the dude from the Objectivist Foundation, the n

1215
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,000
Rand Foundation, so I'm pretty sure I know.

1216
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,039
Speaker 2: Again, then you would know that it's a position.

1217
00:50:18,679 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: Do you understand that a word can mean different things

1218
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,800
in different context So if I say that something is

1219
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,800
morally objective, or that it's morally absolute, or that it's

1220
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,119
not relative or subjective, it all means the same thing

1221
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:36,599
even though it's different words. Did you know that that's crazy? Okay,

1222
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:38,920
that's crazy that words do you mean the same thing?

1223
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:39,360
Is crazy.

1224
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: That you don't have any concept of the philosophical compass

1225
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,880
is crazy the philosophical compass.

1226
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,679
Speaker 1: Yes, so memes meme level philosophy.

1227
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 2: It's not memeless.

1228
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,119
Speaker 1: It is a meme. It's a means. It's a meme

1229
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:53,960
level philosophy. Because you thought that words didn't mean the

1230
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:54,440
same thing.

1231
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 5: Okay, we have a chat coming in here from Robert

1232
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,719
one Secon. Guys, let's get that pulled up there.

1233
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,519
Speaker 1: Thank you. Robert appreciate it.

1234
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:09,639
Speaker 6: Well, what donated two hundred dollars? Hey Brian comment on

1235
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:13,440
this discussion. Bloomberg just reported two days ago that for

1236
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,480
the first time ever, white men are slightly now less

1237
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:18,960
than half of board members are tests and P five

1238
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:21,880
hundred companies progress on GDP.

1239
00:51:22,639 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 5: Thank you, Robert. Do you guys want to discuss that or.

1240
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:28,119
Speaker 8: Not?

1241
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's even true. If that's true,

1242
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,639
I feel neutrally about it. Okay, it depends on why

1243
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:37,480
it's the case, right I think like white men in

1244
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:40,719
general are being like pretty shittily treated by society right now.

1245
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,840
I think there's like a fair bit of like persecution.

1246
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,360
So I suspect that the reasons behind that is bad,

1247
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,880
but maybe it's neutral. But probably it's bad, but maybe

1248
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:48,440
it's neutral.

1249
00:51:48,599 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 5: All right, we have three other chats, unless Jay, you

1250
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:51,559
wanted to weigh in on that.

1251
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,679
Speaker 1: I agree that's bad. Yeah, sure, we have whatever fan,

1252
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:55,840
Thank you whatever.

1253
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 6: Fan fanuated one hundred dollars. I'm enjoying barbecue cooking her

1254
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,280
puppy cheeks better than Gordon Ramsey like a donkey.

1255
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:07,519
Speaker 2: Okay, they like my cheeks, that's all I heard.

1256
00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:12,199
Speaker 1: We have you got cooked is what they said. I

1257
00:52:12,199 --> 00:52:13,480
know you can't hear something.

1258
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,679
Speaker 5: There was a nice one that came through about you.

1259
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: I saw, all right, we.

1260
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 5: Have grandma sweaters coming in here in just a moment.

1261
00:52:23,039 --> 00:52:25,320
Grandma's Grandma's sweaters.

1262
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:30,199
Speaker 6: Excuse me, Grandma's sweaters donated one hundred dollars erudites.

1263
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: That makes no sense.

1264
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 6: Feminism is a populist movement where each rep in history

1265
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:40,719
interprets the definition feminism whole ancient beliefs and utilized history

1266
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,480
as foundation for their beliefs.

1267
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: Yep, okay, just it's not a refutation of anything that

1268
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,239
I've said.

1269
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,679
Speaker 1: That you can't understand me.

1270
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: I'm right here. But if you want to keep fighting

1271
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:55,239
like something.

1272
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: You're arguing in yourself in your head, it's like a

1273
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,440
hamster will running and you're not actually in the debate.

1274
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: I've the whole chat is times. I did a lot

1275
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:03,800
of Later.

1276
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: Finally, I bet you couldn't restate my internal critique, could

1277
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,079
you of me? Yeah?

1278
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: It was something about how you think that I'm like

1279
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,360
self defeating because you think that my definitions necessarily like

1280
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,159
contradict each other, which they don't. It was just a

1281
00:53:17,199 --> 00:53:17,880
false economy.

1282
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,039
Speaker 1: Now, that wasn't the internal critique, but good.

1283
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,119
Speaker 2: Try Okay, do you want to remind me get more?

1284
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have, Rachel Wilson, Thank you, Rachel appreciated, Thank.

1285
00:53:28,119 --> 00:53:31,679
Speaker 6: You hundred dollars. The most merciful thing that the large

1286
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,320
family does to one of its infant members is kill it.

1287
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,880
Margaret Sang, a founder of Planned Parenthood, First wave feminist

1288
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,079
feminism is intrinsically anti natalists.

1289
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:43,679
Speaker 2: Yep, I just disagree.

1290
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 5: Okay, good job, thank you. Rachel Wilson.

1291
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,599
Speaker 1: Appreciate that.

1292
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,039
Speaker 2: It's almost like there's lots of camps to a large movement, so.

1293
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: It's elastic exactly, thank you.

1294
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 2: Yep, to some degree. Yeah, we would agree that there's

1295
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,880
hadoginity within any movement.

1296
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,639
Speaker 1: So it can be defined the way you need it

1297
00:53:58,679 --> 00:53:59,920
at whatever point in the day.

1298
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 2: I defined it really clearly, like very.

1299
00:54:02,519 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: Broadly, so that you could move it later.

1300
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,559
Speaker 2: And why did you agree for work? Why did you

1301
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:08,039
agree to it?

1302
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: Because I was setting you up to lose later. That's why.

1303
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:12,559
Speaker 2: Oh, it was an eighty jess plan. And then it

1304
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:14,679
took you forty five minutes to define it later.

1305
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,159
Speaker 1: I just let you sink your own dig, your own.

1306
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,159
Speaker 2: Hole, whatever you need to tell yourself that I.

1307
00:54:20,039 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: Bet you ninety five percent of the chat's gonna agree.

1308
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: With me that this because everybody's dumb.

1309
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: Oh really, everybody in the chat's dumb. Thank you.

1310
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't say that. I said I'm sure chatters

1311
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:30,559
agree with you. I just don't.

1312
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: But you think that my arguments are dumb, So they're dumb.

1313
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,599
Speaker 2: I'm not super interested in what chatters have to say.

1314
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:37,079
Viewers are a very different brief.

1315
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,079
Speaker 1: Optics, and who won the debate is judged by the audience.

1316
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the audience isn't just chatters, right, it's also viewers,

1317
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,119
and these are not the same person.

1318
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: I bet the comments are going to say otherwise.

1319
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,559
Speaker 2: I'm sure the comments on a very right leaning, decently

1320
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:54,599
Eastern orthodox that has already accepted most of your presuppositions

1321
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,079
the show are going to agree with you. Right leaning,

1322
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,760
right leaning. Yeah, I'm sure that they're going to agree

1323
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,559
with you, But that doesn't mean that you've won, right,

1324
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:03,800
just like if you if I put this on my

1325
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,119
channel and then all of my left leaning audiences that

1326
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,119
I won, that's not evidence that I won. Obviously, Are

1327
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:11,960
you sure? Yeah? Obviously that would be like a super.

1328
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: Sybase debase for audiences.

1329
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,159
Speaker 2: Sure, did you listen to anything. I just said. What's

1330
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:18,239
a selection bias?

1331
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,039
Speaker 1: Well, it's when you choose the evidence based on what

1332
00:55:21,079 --> 00:55:21,400
you want.

1333
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: It's not a selection bias. That's called Well, you're you're.

1334
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,159
Speaker 1: About audiences and like, my audience would like my stuff,

1335
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:29,199
So if they like me, then I think I won

1336
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,679
because my aunorts like me. So I selectively chose the audience.

1337
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:32,400
Is what you're saying.

1338
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,639
Speaker 2: No, okay, no, So it's you know.

1339
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:38,039
Speaker 1: What You're right, That's what it is.

1340
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:40,519
Speaker 2: It's crazy. So basically, what any of these words mean,

1341
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:41,880
you've really impressed.

1342
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: People just means that selection.

1343
00:55:45,039 --> 00:55:48,039
Speaker 2: Science means that, like a naturally arising population that you

1344
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:51,280
were testing might end up having some emergent trait that

1345
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,360
you think is a construct true of that group, when

1346
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,119
actually you've already set up the prerequisite methodology to find

1347
00:55:57,119 --> 00:55:59,440
that trait within it. So my audience is going to

1348
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:01,039
like my ship more and your audience will.

1349
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 1: Like literally what I just said.

1350
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the issue is that you were defining that's

1351
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,679
what I just said. No, you said that, that's what

1352
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:09,519
I just defined.

1353
00:56:09,559 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: You idiot. No, you're stupid, Like I literally just defined

1354
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,000
the same thing that you said.

1355
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: Do you think that when you call me stupid. You win?

1356
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: What's a fact? What's the purpose factually demonstrating? What is

1357
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:19,239
the case?

1358
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: Again? Do you think winning?

1359
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:23,599
Speaker 1: You literally give the same definition I did. I don't care. No.

1360
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,039
Speaker 2: The issue was that you were doing the what's it called?

1361
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: When I thought you knew the fallacies? I thought you

1362
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:29,199
knew the fallacies?

1363
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,199
Speaker 2: I don't, But you don't.

1364
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: You don't because you didn't know what internal critique was either.

1365
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,599
Speaker 2: Do you remember what the word is for when you

1366
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:40,159
selectively pick your cherry pick your evidence. That's the word

1367
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:40,360
for that.

1368
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: Well, there's two fallacies. There's the sharpshooter fallacy and the

1369
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,159
gambler's fallacy, So you might be referring to either of

1370
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:47,639
those cherry picking fallacy.

1371
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 2: It's not cherry picking fallacy, it's doesn't even know the fallacy?

1372
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:51,239
I do?

1373
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: Yes, what's the gamblers fallacy? If you know the fellaws,

1374
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,519
what's the what's the gambler's fallacy?

1375
00:56:57,679 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1376
00:56:58,760 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: You just said you knew the fellasi.

1377
00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:34,639
Speaker 5: Welcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast, where we try

1378
00:59:34,639 --> 00:59:37,920
to make sense of the man you guys totally butchered

1379
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,880
that okay, where we try to make sense of the

1380
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,079
modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas.

1381
00:59:43,639 --> 00:59:44,039
Speaker 1: Go ahead.

1382
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,239
Speaker 9: My name is Jimbob. I'm a political cartoonist. You can

1383
00:59:47,239 --> 00:59:50,039
find my comics at Made by Jimbob on Instagram. I'm

1384
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:53,159
also a live streamer at Made by Jimbob at YouTube.

1385
00:59:53,679 --> 00:59:55,599
Speaker 1: Age did you say age forty four or forty four?

1386
00:59:55,639 --> 00:59:58,400
All right? Welcome, Welcome Jay? What about you?

1387
00:59:58,920 --> 00:59:59,119
Speaker 10: Yeah?

1388
00:59:59,239 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: Jay? Do I do comedy, I do media, I do

1389
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,800
geopolitical analysis, hosts Alex Jones show for the last five years,

1390
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:08,280
right for the Sam Hid Show. Uh. And I'm a

1391
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,639
YouTuber and I'm forty six forty six all right? And

1392
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:17,480
then education. I did undergrad in philosophy in Kentucky. And

1393
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:21,519
then my grad work is psychological warfare in literature. Was

1394
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:24,840
that at a university? Yeah? Murray State, got it? Okay?

1395
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: Is that English?

1396
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: What English?

1397
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,559
Speaker 2: Is that? It was your Masters of Arts in English.

1398
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:33,239
Speaker 1: It's English and philosophy degree blossity cognate what you said

1399
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,320
the psychological warfare? Yeah, my focus in grad work was

1400
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,639
on psychological warfare and media. What and so are you

1401
01:00:40,719 --> 01:00:44,239
an expert in psychological warfare? I don't know about expert,

1402
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,599
but you're you, I mean studied, you've studied it. Yeah,

1403
01:00:47,639 --> 01:00:48,480
I'm published on that.

1404
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 5: Okay, period, tell us how do you do psychological warfare?

1405
01:00:53,079 --> 01:00:56,159
Speaker 1: Can you tell us that? Well? I studied doing I

1406
01:00:56,199 --> 01:01:00,039
study the way that James Bond was used in the

1407
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:05,199
Cold War as a symbol for Western like geopolitics, Western

1408
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,280
liberal economic theory. So you can use fictional characters as

1409
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,440
a way to do culture war.

1410
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 5: Okay, got it? So like psychological warfare through media? Yes, okay,

1411
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,280
interest fiction movies okay, God three books on Hollywood? Do

1412
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,719
you think, like like Titanic was psychological warfare?

1413
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: Some blockbusters are?

1414
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 9: But what about Taylor Swift?

1415
01:01:32,119 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift? Uh, well, NATO said they weren't to use

1416
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:39,239
Taylor Swift for psyops, So maybe what about top Gun?

1417
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,639
Top Gun actually was, Yeah, there was money. Reagan put

1418
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:45,239
money into military recruitment using the top Gun.

1419
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 5: So yes, rock and Roll. What's like the number one film?

1420
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:51,880
If you if you have that, maybe not the number one,

1421
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,239
If you have the point to a film that that

1422
01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:56,960
was used as psychological warfare, what what do you think

1423
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:57,440
it would be?

1424
01:01:57,679 --> 01:02:01,079
Speaker 1: Probably the best example what I focused on was the

1425
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,960
James Bond franchise. That's like the best example and it

1426
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,239
was explicitly done for that purpose. Got it? Okay, cool,

1427
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:09,320
Jim Bob, what about you?

1428
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,119
Speaker 9: Nine years with my wife? Happy Mother's Day, Megan, let's

1429
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:17,239
get some w's for all the mothers in the chat.

1430
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,960
Happy Mother's Day and definitely the longest relationship.

1431
01:02:21,239 --> 01:02:24,719
Speaker 1: All right, Jay? What about what about you married for

1432
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:27,760
five years and we dated for about four before that,

1433
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,639
So I've been with Jamie for the past nine years.

1434
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,239
And yeah, do you have any kids? Jay? We do

1435
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:38,440
not have kids now. And Jim Bob YEA three? Is it? So? Jay?

1436
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:43,719
Speaker 5: Are you you're an Orthodox Christian? Is it okay to

1437
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,920
do that shit if you're a.

1438
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: Christian or especially an Orthodox Christian? Jim Bob, Jay, can

1439
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,760
you do? I mean, I think there's that levity. There's

1440
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,920
room for, you know, things between the husband and a wife.

1441
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,840
So there are some lines. I don't know that there's

1442
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,039
an easy, hard set line as to what that is

1443
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:07,039
that maybe a husband or wife have to determine. But

1444
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:10,199
I do think that there might be a danger in

1445
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:11,960
this sitsue. I'm not saying this about you, but like

1446
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,480
there could be a situation where like if you requested that,

1447
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,800
like that could put the dude in a legal situation,

1448
01:03:20,039 --> 01:03:22,880
you know what I mean? Like not that you would

1449
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,119
necessarily do that, but you might say, oh, look, you

1450
01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:26,559
know if you guys have a fight, right, like, well,

1451
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:29,599
look what he did to me. So it's just like,

1452
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:32,960
I think there's a lot of reasons and ways why

1453
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,280
it's just not safe for a dude necessarily to get

1454
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:40,719
into that. And I would say that, yeah, like from

1455
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:45,440
a religious perspective, it's odd. I don't know.

1456
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 9: I would add that if that type of thing continued,

1457
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,840
Let's say you got married and you had children, it

1458
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,719
would certainly be confusing for the child if they were

1459
01:03:55,719 --> 01:04:00,880
to find out the way daddy loves mommy actually is harmful.

1460
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:06,199
It might actually produce the scenario where the children to

1461
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,840
hurt them they think that's love.

1462
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,079
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so sorry to enter Jack.

1463
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 8: I feel like there's a way to work around that,

1464
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,800
as in maybe have like a boundary, and that's something

1465
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,400
you've probably discussed with your partners, like, hey, as long

1466
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,760
as it's in an area that's concealable, like under the collarbones,

1467
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,239
it's fair game. But like your face, something that you

1468
01:04:27,239 --> 01:04:30,079
have to use and see every single day, maybe that

1469
01:04:30,119 --> 01:04:33,159
can be spoken about. It doesn't necessarily mean like punch

1470
01:04:33,199 --> 01:04:34,280
me in my face.

1471
01:04:34,039 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know.

1472
01:04:35,079 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 9: I mean then I would say that that's actually then

1473
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,039
practicing sort of some level of deception and withhold, which

1474
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:44,280
is another practice that might be into question.

1475
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 2: Like not telling your kids your kinks is the deception?

1476
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:50,119
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, if you're, if you're, it doesn't change

1477
01:04:50,119 --> 01:04:53,400
the fact that your husband or the father you know,

1478
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,519
your father is harming what's definitionally harming your mother?

1479
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 2: Do you would you though, like for other kings, because

1480
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,679
this is obviously like a pretty extreme kink. What kinks

1481
01:05:02,679 --> 01:05:04,639
are allowed in Eastern Orthodox I actually don't know.

1482
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 9: I would know what's considered a kink and what's considered

1483
01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:10,320
just like creative.

1484
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 2: Rilla sex is going to be like a kink, so

1485
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:13,199
that can you piss on each other?

1486
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,039
Speaker 9: I'm just gonna guess no, I would say that would

1487
01:05:18,079 --> 01:05:20,079
be a perversion. That's a perversion.

1488
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: What about oral sex?

1489
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 9: I'm not sure what a priest, I've never had that conversation.

1490
01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:27,719
Speaker 2: Do you have to tell your kids about it? Or

1491
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:29,400
are you being deceptive to your kids if you don't

1492
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,480
tell them about your kink practice with your.

1493
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 9: Well, I mean you don't have to be explicit with

1494
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:38,599
what's considered sexuality, But what's considered sexuality would still have

1495
01:05:38,639 --> 01:05:43,199
a standard underneath a Christian view, and then what's considered

1496
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:46,119
a perversion would also have that. But outside of Christianity,

1497
01:05:46,159 --> 01:05:48,000
there's no such thing as perversion.

1498
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: Outside of so non Christians can't do perverse things.

1499
01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 9: Well, they can do it, but they don't have I'm

1500
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,039
saying their worldview. They can't tell you what's perverse, what's proper,

1501
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,719
what's normal. It's all just kind of like preference. If

1502
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,519
you feel something from something, and you feel good from

1503
01:06:03,519 --> 01:06:08,920
someone doing something otherwise, let's say perverse in another paradigm.

1504
01:06:09,199 --> 01:06:12,760
You can't really say it's wrong or right or good

1505
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:13,320
or bad.

1506
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,599
Speaker 2: It's just always saying. Secular people can't like weigh in on.

1507
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, they can't. Really, there's no standard.

1508
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,039
Speaker 2: There, gotcha.

1509
01:06:19,719 --> 01:06:22,159
Speaker 10: I guess I'm not really thinking about children when I'm

1510
01:06:22,199 --> 01:06:24,760
doing this. I don't really have like a future of

1511
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,679
having children, so I guess I never thought of it

1512
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:28,400
in that way.

1513
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 2: I can see that.

1514
01:06:29,639 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think maybe if I did mature a little,

1515
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:36,679
grow up a little, maybe it wouldn't be a thing.

1516
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 11: But I have no way of Yeah, foreseeing the future,

1517
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:41,400
do you think.

1518
01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:42,559
Speaker 1: You'll want kids when you get older?

1519
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 10: Maybe I feel like, I'm twenty four now, that's still

1520
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:50,239
very young. But you know, women only have a period

1521
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:53,559
of time where they can really decide and actually do it.

1522
01:06:54,719 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 11: And as for now, my answer is now, who's going.

1523
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: To take care of you later on life?

1524
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 11: I know, I don't really think about the future that way.

1525
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 2: I guess I.

1526
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 8: Feel like that's kind of like I'm trying to find

1527
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,480
the words. I feel like that's a burden that the

1528
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:18,440
children didn't ask for. You know, you shouldn't have kids

1529
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:21,000
just because you want somebody to take care of you

1530
01:07:21,039 --> 01:07:21,719
and your old age.

1531
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:23,159
Speaker 1: That's the only reason.

1532
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 2: Well no, no, no, I know, And I'm not implying that.

1533
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 8: I'm just saying that in general, I think there should

1534
01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:32,159
be that that shouldn't even be an expectation. Is it

1535
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,760
nice to have kids that take care of you when

1536
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,360
you're old, Absolutely, that'd be nice, But that's not an

1537
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,440
expectation that should be set forth.

1538
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:43,599
Speaker 9: I don't think, well, yeah, yeah, it is a duty.

1539
01:07:43,639 --> 01:07:46,960
And also I don't think the reasoning using a reason,

1540
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:50,480
I don't think that's a burden a kid asked for. Well,

1541
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,480
from that logic, a kid didn't ask to be born

1542
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,840
or to be to have the burden of learning a language,

1543
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:01,440
properly schooling everything else you could put under that umbrella

1544
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,719
of burdenship. I don't think people actually have a say

1545
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,360
in a lot of times of what their burden is right, and.

1546
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 8: To respond to that is I like, for example, I

1547
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,079
do plan on taking care of my mother, and I

1548
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:18,279
am an emt. I drop off old people, you know,

1549
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:21,119
to their facilities all the time, and sometimes I look

1550
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:23,159
at their ages and I'm like, wow, my mom's only

1551
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:25,159
like six years younger than that, and these people are

1552
01:08:25,199 --> 01:08:26,319
like completely better ridden.

1553
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 2: And so I do.

1554
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:31,199
Speaker 8: I do think, like I am going to take care

1555
01:08:31,199 --> 01:08:35,399
of my mom, But just sometimes shit hits the fan

1556
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,840
and you don't have that great relationship with your parents,

1557
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,600
or maybe they're crappy parents.

1558
01:08:40,279 --> 01:08:42,279
Speaker 2: And you feel like you owe them nothing.

1559
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:44,239
Speaker 8: And I know that that can lead into like, well,

1560
01:08:44,239 --> 01:08:46,319
they gave you life, they raise you, they fed you,

1561
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:47,920
they clothe you. But a lot of times it's not

1562
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:48,720
even the case.

1563
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a universal rule, like there're gonna be exceptions,

1564
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,479
but you wouldn't make the exceptions the universal rule because

1565
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,520
there are exceptions. So I think most people's parents do

1566
01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:02,119
provide for them, and the expectation is that you would

1567
01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:05,199
then return the favor when they get older. But there

1568
01:09:05,199 --> 01:09:08,840
could be toxic people who are completely you know, dangerous

1569
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:09,560
or something.

1570
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:10,279
Speaker 2: No for sure.

1571
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:14,119
Speaker 8: And you mentioned like duty a duty according to whom?

1572
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,760
I guess like for me, it's like I would do

1573
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,520
it because growing up, it's like my life story. Growing up,

1574
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:22,960
my mom was a janitor for three different things.

1575
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: Single mom.

1576
01:09:25,039 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 8: Mostly I saw my dad like every third weekend. But

1577
01:09:29,039 --> 01:09:31,920
my mom worked basically on top of child support, worked

1578
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:34,199
three jobs as a janitor for a college, a school,

1579
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:38,279
and a church. And she put a lot of expectation.

1580
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 2: For me to go to school.

1581
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 8: And that's why, like, for example, I joined the military

1582
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,359
so that I can get my school paid for because

1583
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:45,880
I didn't want to burden my mom with probably having

1584
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:47,640
to pick a fourth or fifth job just to pay

1585
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,680
my way through. And so to me, it's like genuine

1586
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,640
like okay, I will take care of you because you've

1587
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,520
you've raised me into the person that I am today.

1588
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,960
And so I guess to circle back long story, shortcake,

1589
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:02,560
I guess what do you define as like duty?

1590
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 2: Like? What who a duty? According to him?

1591
01:10:08,199 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 9: Well, I mean I I get my duties from an

1592
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:16,960
orthodox Christian paradigm. I would say that absent that just

1593
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,000
like other standards, I don't think I don't think anyone

1594
01:10:20,039 --> 01:10:22,079
has a duty outside of that worldview.

1595
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: And for you, I mean that's yeah. I have a

1596
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,760
similar take as Jim Bob. I mean, there are duties

1597
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,039
that would be informed by the worldview that you have

1598
01:10:32,159 --> 01:10:35,439
or your upbringing, by your parents. And I mean again,

1599
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,279
I think even if you have bad parents, you still

1600
01:10:37,319 --> 01:10:40,399
probably want to return the favor to some degree. I mean,

1601
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,479
I was raised by a single mom, I had absentee dad,

1602
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,000
but I would still take care of my dad. He's

1603
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,199
in that health right now, so we try to help

1604
01:10:48,279 --> 01:10:50,880
him out as best we can. But I mean, I

1605
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:55,560
think this is just an expectation that most civilizations, most

1606
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,520
cultures had until we got to modernity, where you can

1607
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,880
kind of be this individual with no ties, no boundaries,

1608
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,359
no expectations, no duties. So we're living this weird experiment

1609
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,399
that it's a historical, it's weird.

1610
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,079
Speaker 9: So even the current family structure, usually it's our at

1611
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:17,560
least Jay and I are our share a worldview where

1612
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,720
you kind of defend the family in a nuclear sense.

1613
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,560
But then you go, wait a second, even that is

1614
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,920
individualistic if you really think about it comparatively to other

1615
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,279
cultures or historically where there was like a big generational

1616
01:11:31,359 --> 01:11:34,920
family and now you have this unit, and now inside

1617
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,439
the unit, now you have even more individual units. And

1618
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:43,520
I think when he says modernity like individualism, materialism, pursuing

1619
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,039
wants and desires above all things. Go live your life,

1620
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:48,439
do what you want to do, people are kind of

1621
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:53,239
drawn into a mindset. It basically inherit a mindset that

1622
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,239
justifies just their own personal pursuits. And this is where

1623
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:00,239
you get into these issues of like, well, what's is

1624
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:04,239
there any obligation to the collective at all? At this point,

1625
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,880
it's actually hard to see, uh, for a lot of

1626
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:12,359
people that that there's something beyond their own life and

1627
01:12:12,359 --> 01:12:13,880
what they want. Is there anything?

1628
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that's really interesting? I'm sure. Are

1629
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,119
you guys on pretty opposed to capitalism?

1630
01:12:20,279 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: No?

1631
01:12:21,039 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 2: I mean that's like an economic system to a degree,

1632
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,439
like is there what what economic system do you guys prefer?

1633
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,199
Like communism, like high regulation of markets.

1634
01:12:30,159 --> 01:12:34,560
Speaker 9: I think capitalism it can be kind of like a tool.

1635
01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:38,520
It's like asking like if a hammer is wrong. I

1636
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,039
think capitalism itself what it produces without any sort of

1637
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,319
ethical paradigm that's guiding it is horrific.

1638
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:47,279
Speaker 1: Sure.

1639
01:12:47,359 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 2: So, Like the reason I'm asking is you talked about

1640
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,319
like individualism and whatnot, which is very in many ways

1641
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,760
what drives a lot of capitalism, right, is like individual

1642
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,920
want and whims and materialism is pretty central to especially

1643
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,000
our modern day capitalism. So you're pretty opposed to capitalism.

1644
01:13:03,319 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 9: It's not the opposition to capitalism itself. Like I said,

1645
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,279
you can oppose a number of things if it doesn't

1646
01:13:10,279 --> 01:13:13,840
have a guiding ethical principles. For instance, I'm not opposed

1647
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,239
to people using their god given gifts in exchange for

1648
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,800
money or other things. That's just that's like an exchange

1649
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,880
of your will and your and your labor. If that's

1650
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,880
inside of a system you call capitalistic, then fine. But

1651
01:13:29,359 --> 01:13:32,239
I think Jay will add that the complexity and the

1652
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:36,640
implications of capitalism at a larger scale is beyond what

1653
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,880
most people think consider uh favorable, Like you know what

1654
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:42,439
I mean, Like it gets to some limit.

1655
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you guys would be before like a decent amount

1656
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,479
of government regulation to ensure like some level of ethical

1657
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,279
principle maintained by the capitalist structures. You guys kind of

1658
01:13:51,319 --> 01:13:54,000
want that government oversight obviously might not want to.

1659
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: Right, because I mean, you have tariffs. Parives are a

1660
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,680
way to protect the nation state and the people that

1661
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,199
work in that nation state. So to get rid of

1662
01:14:04,279 --> 01:14:05,920
I didn't say it was the only purposes. So it's

1663
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,319
a purpose. So you don't have to correct that because

1664
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,640
it was just a sentence. You don't have to let

1665
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,239
me know because I know what I'm talking about. You

1666
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:16,119
ask me a question on to finish it. Okay, So

1667
01:14:16,279 --> 01:14:21,520
tariffs protect the workers of that nation and monarchies which

1668
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,920
were patriarchy, they can be. They the ones in Western civilization.

1669
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,680
They were in Western civilization just like ancient Israel. They

1670
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:34,479
were patriarchal. Those protected the workers. So there has to

1671
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:39,039
be some degree of structure and limitation to the to

1672
01:14:39,119 --> 01:14:42,680
the economy. So yes, a limited economic control.

1673
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 9: And guilds were kind of cool though, that's where that's the.

1674
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,119
Speaker 1: Purpose of guilds and tariffs is simwhere dow.

1675
01:14:48,199 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 9: To the union on I guess similar.

1676
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: The original purpose of unions was, yes, to guard against

1677
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,600
monopoly capitalism. So to answer your question, monopoly capitalism, yes

1678
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,359
is a problem. But the basic principles of Austrian economics

1679
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:05,560
free market. I have a bigcoin shirt. No, it's not bad.

1680
01:15:08,319 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, this came from Rex.

1681
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 5: Interesting how conversations will meander their way to different things.

1682
01:15:16,399 --> 01:15:18,680
Getting into the pre show notes, Why don't we start

1683
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,199
with I will start with Sophia. So you said your

1684
01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:24,319
ex boyfriend. Is this the one you just broke up

1685
01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:26,640
with or a different one? Okay, ex boyfriend scammed you,

1686
01:15:27,159 --> 01:15:31,359
scammed you in many ways. He made fake stocking emails

1687
01:15:31,399 --> 01:15:33,640
to get you to move to San Diego with him.

1688
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:38,000
Then he got you into OnlyFans and ultimately pimped you

1689
01:15:38,079 --> 01:15:41,319
out on only fans and took almost all of your money.

1690
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,479
He put an put an MX card under your name,

1691
01:15:45,359 --> 01:15:48,520
He stole your social Security number, spent over twenty thousand dollars,

1692
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,119
left you in debt, hacked all your socials and only fans,

1693
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:54,000
and continues to do it to every other girl he

1694
01:15:54,079 --> 01:15:54,560
deals with.

1695
01:15:55,039 --> 01:15:56,359
Speaker 1: So I guess what's the story there?

1696
01:16:02,039 --> 01:16:05,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean just from the beginning, the whole stalking emails.

1697
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,560
I was living in Hawaii on my own, met him

1698
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,239
on hinge when he was visiting Hawaii. We did long

1699
01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:15,960
distance for maybe like a month or two. I was

1700
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:20,640
nineteen at the time, or nineteen or twenty at the time,

1701
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:26,840
very dumb, very delusional, and yeah, he sent me a

1702
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,359
bunch of emails basically saying like, I know where you live.

1703
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 11: You just walked in with your groceries.

1704
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,399
Speaker 10: I'm going to come up and you know, essay you

1705
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:39,680
all the things very scary, very and it was him

1706
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,439
the whole time. And I knew because after I moved

1707
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:46,119
in with him in San Diego and all of that stuff,

1708
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:48,439
I went through his computer and saw all of the

1709
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:54,399
emails from different fake emails of him emailing me from

1710
01:16:54,760 --> 01:17:00,479
a number of emails. But that ultimately got me to

1711
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:05,760
move from Hawaii to San Diego out of fear basically. Okay,

1712
01:17:07,239 --> 01:17:09,680
but yeah, the whole getting me to do OnlyFans thing,

1713
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:11,680
he just said that he knew how to do it,

1714
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:13,039
he knew how he was going to get me to

1715
01:17:13,079 --> 01:17:13,600
make money.

1716
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:15,159
Speaker 2: And I mean, I was down.

1717
01:17:15,239 --> 01:17:18,039
Speaker 10: I'm not saying he forced me to do it, but

1718
01:17:18,279 --> 01:17:20,680
I am saying that he got me to do a

1719
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:23,680
lot of things that I wouldn't have done at the

1720
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,079
age that I was at or where I was at

1721
01:17:27,119 --> 01:17:27,600
at the time.

1722
01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:33,039
Speaker 9: Wait, wouldn't have done absent what like if you say

1723
01:17:33,399 --> 01:17:35,359
there's a bunch of things I did at the time

1724
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,960
that I otherwise wouldn't have done other.

1725
01:17:38,199 --> 01:17:40,520
Speaker 10: I wouldn't have put my entire body on the internet

1726
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:44,720
and done.

1727
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 11: The things that he had me do on video.

1728
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 9: If not, what is it persuasion? Is it a persuasion?

1729
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:53,039
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it was that, And I I'm like, like

1730
01:17:53,079 --> 01:17:55,439
I said, like I know there'll be a huge argument

1731
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,960
over forced and persuasion and you have a choice and whatnot.

1732
01:18:01,119 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 11: Like I said, I.

1733
01:18:02,079 --> 01:18:07,199
Speaker 10: Was delusional and I was very young, and I wasn't sticking.

1734
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:08,079
Speaker 2: Up for myself.

1735
01:18:09,239 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 8: Seeing as how you're not with him now. And this

1736
01:18:14,039 --> 01:18:16,359
is like an honest question that comes from like I'm

1737
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:19,520
just I want to know. There's no like loaded meaning

1738
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,640
do you do you choose to plan on stopping at

1739
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:24,119
any point?

1740
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 2: No, like this.

1741
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:30,039
Speaker 11: Like it is what it is.

1742
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:34,199
Speaker 10: But I'm a whole different person now because of it.

1743
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:36,399
So like I said, I wouldn't have done those things

1744
01:18:36,399 --> 01:18:38,359
when I was nineteen and twenty, but I did it

1745
01:18:38,399 --> 01:18:42,199
and now I'm full blown doing it, like I didn't

1746
01:18:42,199 --> 01:18:45,960
stop doing only fans when I left him because like

1747
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:48,239
to be fair, like the money's very good.

1748
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 11: I like working from home.

1749
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,520
Speaker 10: I like doing what I do now, and I am

1750
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,319
doing it to my extent now I'm doing it to

1751
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:56,760
my comfortability.

1752
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:00,279
Speaker 2: Now I'm in charge, like on your own terms. Basically, yeah,

1753
01:19:00,319 --> 01:19:00,800
I wasn't.

1754
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 11: I wasn't in charge in any way.

1755
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 10: Like he had my passwords, he had my everything, He

1756
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:10,359
sent me things to do, he made like I say,

1757
01:19:10,399 --> 01:19:13,439
he made me get on OnlyFans Live because he did

1758
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,359
like he put me in the room, he shut the door,

1759
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,159
he turned the camera like he made me go live.

1760
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:21,880
And if I didn't, it would have been a fight

1761
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:23,640
more or less.

1762
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 5: You said, the money's really good. Are you able to share,

1763
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,000
like how much you make on average?

1764
01:19:28,079 --> 01:19:33,319
Speaker 10: Or I'm making around like twenty five K a month?

1765
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,359
Speaker 1: Okay? And what's the highest you've ever made in a month.

1766
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 2: Forty k?

1767
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:41,039
Speaker 1: Okay? Cool?

1768
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,079
Speaker 5: And then you also in your notes here you said

1769
01:19:44,119 --> 01:19:47,199
you wanted to speak on leaving toxic men and how

1770
01:19:47,239 --> 01:19:49,760
to know you're dating a con artist.

1771
01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 10: Because I dated he was a contract the guy thirty eight,

1772
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,000
I think when I met thirty seven. When I met him,

1773
01:19:56,079 --> 01:19:57,800
his hinge profile said thirty.

1774
01:19:59,039 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: He said he was six. I say he.

1775
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:07,319
Speaker 10: Was pushing he was maybe five six, and he said

1776
01:20:07,319 --> 01:20:11,760
he was six foot when I met you get.

1777
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 2: Ship stay with him for the length that you did,

1778
01:20:15,239 --> 01:20:17,720
like what do you think kept you? I don't know, honestly,

1779
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:19,439
I'm not asking that. I'm like a judge. I'm not

1780
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,279
asking a judge. I'm genuinely curious. Like what he wasn't

1781
01:20:22,279 --> 01:20:23,960
the height you wanted. He wasn't the age you wanted.

1782
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,239
So like a lot of I didn't.

1783
01:20:25,079 --> 01:20:28,520
Speaker 10: Want anything, I didn't. I didn't I didn't want a

1784
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,279
certain age, I didn't want a certain height. I'm just

1785
01:20:30,279 --> 01:20:33,479
saying he lied. I'm saying he's he lies about everything.

1786
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:38,079
He lives a lie. I think he had said. I mean,

1787
01:20:38,119 --> 01:20:41,359
even like I probably like this kind of messed up,

1788
01:20:41,359 --> 01:20:44,399
but like his teeth and his jaw, like he had

1789
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,720
the worst underbite, he had the worst mouth, the worst breath,

1790
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:52,439
the worst everything. But he he told me that he

1791
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,239
got into a surfing accident the first day I met him,

1792
01:20:56,319 --> 01:20:59,439
and that's why his entire mouth was messed up. Later

1793
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,520
finding out that that was never a truthful thing.

1794
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:04,239
Speaker 1: What what was it really? What did?

1795
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 2: What was that born that way?

1796
01:21:06,239 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 1: Oh? Just born that way?

1797
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,199
Speaker 11: Just born with horrendous teeth?

1798
01:21:10,279 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 2: I mean, is anybody else the breath is your fault?

1799
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:19,199
Speaker 1: But that's fucking disgusting, Yeah, exactly, is anybody else at

1800
01:21:19,199 --> 01:21:22,640
the table born this way? Or wait, what how did

1801
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:23,720
you say? Born that way?

1802
01:21:25,039 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's like a disorder that some people

1803
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,199
will be born with her, like their jaw is super receded.

1804
01:21:29,239 --> 01:21:30,159
There's like a condition.

1805
01:21:30,359 --> 01:21:32,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, there's like cleft lip or.

1806
01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:34,239
Speaker 11: I'm talking there's one dog underbite.

1807
01:21:34,319 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, anybody else at the table was born that way?

1808
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have I was born with other jaws.

1809
01:21:43,359 --> 01:21:47,199
Actually the face is actually a wait, really, I wasn't

1810
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:50,199
even talking about jaws, just like anything. Whatever. Okay, cool,

1811
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:52,840
we're going to go to remind me how to pronounce

1812
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:53,159
your name.

1813
01:21:53,159 --> 01:21:55,119
Speaker 4: It's Hyacin.

1814
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 5: Okay, Hyacin. I know this on your Instagram. There's a

1815
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:00,840
tattoo that you have. It's on your leg. It says,

1816
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:05,720
well behaved women really make excuse me, rarely make history.

1817
01:22:06,199 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 1: Uh. Two questions, are you well behaved?

1818
01:22:10,079 --> 01:22:11,239
Speaker 9: I am?

1819
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm a poser, and then secondly, have you made history?

1820
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:16,600
Speaker 4: No?

1821
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 2: I haven't, so I guess I'm doing it all wrong.

1822
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,319
Speaker 1: Your tattoo is very contradictory.

1823
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 4: Like that very first one. And I really liked Marilyn Monroe,

1824
01:22:25,279 --> 01:22:28,880
so cliche pintrick. One thing led to another.

1825
01:22:29,119 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 5: I wonder if a woman's actually ever in the history

1826
01:22:32,039 --> 01:22:37,119
quoted that or has like that tattoo and actually made history.

1827
01:22:37,359 --> 01:22:38,279
Speaker 1: Like it's it's kind.

1828
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 5: Of this justification when women will use who will never

1829
01:22:41,079 --> 01:22:44,319
make history to act like either degenerates or assholes.

1830
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:49,039
Speaker 9: I actually think it's totally opposite, Like just to tilt

1831
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,680
the term make history across time, it's actually well behaved

1832
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,640
women who make society's work, and they actually are the

1833
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:57,760
ones who make history.

1834
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, what defines well behaved to you?

1835
01:23:01,319 --> 01:23:03,119
Speaker 9: Just generally submissive to the man?

1836
01:23:04,319 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, who's it? Who's on on board? Go ahead?

1837
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:13,199
But you're in the military, like you understand submission, right, No,

1838
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:13,920
I do.

1839
01:23:14,119 --> 01:23:16,560
Speaker 8: I'm just saying that, like I'm thinking we're going to

1840
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:17,880
talk about this later down the line.

1841
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 2: That's why I was just like, okay, like we'll let

1842
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:22,600
you think that for a while.

1843
01:23:23,239 --> 01:23:26,640
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, what do you mean like like.

1844
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 8: I don't know, I'm just saying that, like, oh, we'll

1845
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:29,319
discuss it in a in a bit.

1846
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 2: So I'm like, oh, okay, yeah.

1847
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, so, how did you get the

1848
01:23:33,119 --> 01:23:35,880
all saying eye tattoo? What's the purpose of that on

1849
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:37,319
your hand? Do you want to show it to the.

1850
01:23:37,239 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 4: Camera meeting a guy at the time, and I was

1851
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,840
doing like Hannah and I didn't have any tattoos, and

1852
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:45,960
he was like, you should the knuckles.

1853
01:23:46,159 --> 01:23:47,119
Speaker 2: It did not h bell.

1854
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: Can I wait? No? Go like this into this camera

1855
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:55,520
face this camera? Stay? What wa stay?

1856
01:23:57,079 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 11: Either she'd just beget.

1857
01:24:04,359 --> 01:24:07,039
Speaker 1: You should go the other one it should be go broke.

1858
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:08,079
I don't know.

1859
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:14,239
Speaker 5: Okay, well, did anybody to Jim Bob's point here you

1860
01:24:14,239 --> 01:24:16,640
were saying how what women should be submissive?

1861
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:17,399
Speaker 1: Basically? Is that?

1862
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 9: Yeah? I mean it's a it's a larger statement than

1863
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:24,039
just the cliche of like follow me woman. Society is structured,

1864
01:24:24,039 --> 01:24:26,279
like Jay was pointing to the military structure, and so

1865
01:24:26,279 --> 01:24:31,680
societies are structured hierarchically, and they're structured patriarchically. Even if

1866
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,680
you pretend they aren't, they just death they are functionally,

1867
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:38,960
and so if you follow an ordered system called the society,

1868
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,640
you actually are submissive just.

1869
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:46,399
Speaker 2: Definitionly by that, Like what when you're saying submissive, do

1870
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:48,880
you mean like at a system level, like are you

1871
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,439
talking about like women having rights to land ownership?

1872
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,079
Speaker 9: Let's just say, uh, let's just.

1873
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 2: But then we probably want men to be submissive too,

1874
01:24:57,039 --> 01:24:58,319
So that's not how we would delineate.

1875
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, men actually from a christian in paradigm women. If

1876
01:25:02,279 --> 01:25:05,720
a man is not submissive to a higher order, a

1877
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:09,760
Christianity God, if he's not within that paradigm, the woman

1878
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,960
can't really see reflectively why she should be submissive.

1879
01:25:13,119 --> 01:25:15,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you say women be submissive, I think

1880
01:25:15,079 --> 01:25:17,880
we're assuming that you mean something separate from men, right,

1881
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,039
So I don't think like not murdering is what you

1882
01:25:20,039 --> 01:25:21,800
mean when you say women should be submissive. I'm just

1883
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,159
trying to detail, like when you say women be submissive,

1884
01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:26,720
what's unique for women, because I'm sure you have things.

1885
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,560
Speaker 9: Right unique to women, while I men don't need to do. Yeah,

1886
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,039
I would say duties would be like submissive to your

1887
01:25:33,119 --> 01:25:36,479
duties in a sense that there's a way the system's ordered.

1888
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,880
Women have duties and then men have duties. And so

1889
01:25:40,159 --> 01:25:43,039
men are because of their duties, because of their biology,

1890
01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:46,079
because of their nature. They assume these duties are actually

1891
01:25:46,119 --> 01:25:49,199
informed by their nature, and the women's duties are informed

1892
01:25:49,199 --> 01:25:52,039
by their nature. It's actually the best way to optimize

1893
01:25:52,119 --> 01:25:54,199
both natures of the man and women.

1894
01:25:55,359 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1895
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,079
Speaker 2: Still, I guess I'm trying to get the specifics, Like

1896
01:25:58,159 --> 01:25:59,880
when you say women submissive.

1897
01:26:00,319 --> 01:26:04,239
Speaker 9: I would say for a society, it's better for a

1898
01:26:04,279 --> 01:26:07,600
society largely for the women to submit to the roles

1899
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:13,399
as child bearers and mothers, maybe even in work, to

1900
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:17,079
move toward the kinds of work that is aligned with

1901
01:26:17,119 --> 01:26:22,039
their nature, which they already do administrative caretakers, teachers, and

1902
01:26:22,119 --> 01:26:25,840
so I would say that from a larger view, that

1903
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,960
that's a form of submission. An act of rebellion is

1904
01:26:29,079 --> 01:26:33,199
arguing basically what feminism ends up being is an argument

1905
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:35,840
against reality as it is and saying we got to

1906
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:39,600
revolutionize this. And yet the iron is they can't do

1907
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,399
a revolution because they need men, which goes back to

1908
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:44,119
exactly my point descriptively.

1909
01:26:44,279 --> 01:26:46,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one thing I was asking, should women be

1910
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:49,119
able to own land like private ownership of land? Is

1911
01:26:49,159 --> 01:26:50,920
that submissive or not submissive?

1912
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,520
Speaker 9: I'm not sure. I actually haven't really just thought about

1913
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,960
whether they should own land. My immediate response to that

1914
01:26:59,159 --> 01:27:03,760
is they can own land, But is anyone else obligated

1915
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:07,159
for for her to protect the land aside from her

1916
01:27:08,079 --> 01:27:10,520
from intruders? Probably call the police, have like, are they

1917
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:12,159
obligated to show up and protect.

1918
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 2: Your so many trespasses they're obligated.

1919
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:16,079
Speaker 9: To, They're lawfully. Not in our society.

1920
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:18,640
Speaker 2: Police officers don't have to arrest trespassers.

1921
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:21,520
Speaker 9: No, that's responding to a violation. They have a duty

1922
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,880
to respond to violations. They have no duty to protect

1923
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:25,399
your property or your body.

1924
01:27:26,039 --> 01:27:27,319
Speaker 2: Get a gun and a dog and stuff like that.

1925
01:27:27,399 --> 01:27:29,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, if she gets a gun and a dog, and

1926
01:27:30,119 --> 01:27:32,479
we wish her the best with that, she can try

1927
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:35,359
to do that. I'm just saying, ultimately, for the most part,

1928
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:37,640
women are not going to be able to defend their

1929
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:39,640
their body, their land, their house.

1930
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 2: Sure, but you're fine with them owning the land.

1931
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean I don't think that's a big So

1932
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:45,520
you at least.

1933
01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 2: A line with first wave feminism. You're like, no, not.

1934
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,319
Speaker 9: Really, No, the philosophy is different than a particular sure,

1935
01:27:51,359 --> 01:27:53,680
but at least you can't say like you can't say

1936
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,960
like you think women should own land. Uh, therefore you

1937
01:27:57,039 --> 01:27:59,960
agree with feminism, right, No, but you agree with that

1938
01:28:00,039 --> 01:28:01,279
element of feminism.

1939
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: Right, That wouldn't be feminism because that existed prior to feminism.

1940
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,319
I know we had this conversation yesterday.

1941
01:28:05,359 --> 01:28:07,600
Speaker 2: It really time with it yesterday for that right they

1942
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:07,960
wanted to.

1943
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:12,359
Speaker 1: Want, regardless of women having a right to life, that

1944
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:18,000
existed prior to feminism, So that's not feminism in ancient cultures. Sure,

1945
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,840
but women thought but that was contrary to what you are.

1946
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 2: Yesterday, I can answer you.

1947
01:28:22,079 --> 01:28:24,520
Speaker 1: So that does that mean that you does that mean

1948
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:25,359
you were wrong yesterday?

1949
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 2: You want me to respect.

1950
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:28,359
Speaker 1: That means you were wrong yesterday if you say sure.

1951
01:28:28,399 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 2: But so the important thing that we delineated yesterday is

1952
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:33,960
that women could own land, but it was specifically if

1953
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,239
they were widows who inherited it through some like natural

1954
01:28:36,399 --> 01:28:39,720
patrilineal inheritance. So if her father willed her land, she

1955
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:42,039
could own it, or her husband died, she could own it.

1956
01:28:42,159 --> 01:28:44,560
But the idea that women could just go out individually

1957
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:48,039
and purchase land didn't really exist until after the Suffragette movement. Right,

1958
01:28:48,079 --> 01:28:50,840
that was part of what the suffragettes were ant in modernity.

1959
01:28:51,119 --> 01:28:54,279
Speaker 1: Again, I reference no, I reference to you Proverbs thirty one,

1960
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:58,279
which has women also engaging in commerce and even owning

1961
01:28:58,319 --> 01:29:00,319
their own business. So to own a business, she would

1962
01:29:00,319 --> 01:29:01,720
also potentially have to own land.

1963
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Jews are a lot more matrilineal. They were

1964
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:05,239
very much more Okay.

1965
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: So what you don't even know what matrilineal? I mean?

1966
01:29:07,079 --> 01:29:10,039
That's the dissent in terms of how you determine who

1967
01:29:10,079 --> 01:29:12,159
your people group is. That has nothing to do with

1968
01:29:12,199 --> 01:29:15,039
the social organization of the society, which you admitted was

1969
01:29:15,079 --> 01:29:17,960
patriarchal economically, because you're economically.

1970
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,359
Speaker 2: In Jewish systems, they would often hand down things to

1971
01:29:20,399 --> 01:29:22,039
the mother as well, right, that was like part of

1972
01:29:22,079 --> 01:29:23,920
the way to guarantee that the baby was a jew

1973
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:26,039
and that the baby who was inheriting what was.

1974
01:29:27,079 --> 01:29:30,319
Speaker 8: Well, if the woman's been letting you finish, she has

1975
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,479
like I just was paying attention to that, like spat.

1976
01:29:33,239 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: Right now, thank you, thanks for being repreciated.

1977
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:39,199
Speaker 2: So like in the Jewish thing, part of why the

1978
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:42,439
natural thing emerged is because, like I said, if a

1979
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,720
Jewish line is raped by a Roman officer, the only

1980
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,520
way to guarantee that that baby has some Jewish line

1981
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:56,039
wrong word sorry essayed by a Roman officer. Then the

1982
01:29:56,039 --> 01:29:58,600
only way to guarantee that that line is Jewish is

1983
01:29:58,640 --> 01:29:59,920
to know that it came out of her birth. Now,

1984
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,479
whereas for the father's a really big issue that lots

1985
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:06,199
of men have today is guarantee that the woman who

1986
01:30:06,359 --> 01:30:09,239
is his partner is actually having his child for somebody else.

1987
01:30:09,239 --> 01:30:11,399
This is why, like oftentimes inheritance was through mothers.

1988
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 1: You know what the liver right law is.

1989
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,279
Speaker 2: The lever right law broadly, but I'm sure there's something specifical.

1990
01:30:16,279 --> 01:30:18,399
Speaker 1: W I'm talking what is it broadly? Since you know

1991
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:19,760
Jewish law, the lever right.

1992
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,119
Speaker 2: Law was like the rabbinic law that Jews operated off of. Sola.

1993
01:30:22,199 --> 01:30:23,720
Lever right law was like kind of what the highest

1994
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:24,560
laws of inheritance.

1995
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,319
Speaker 1: It has to do with if I die, my brother

1996
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:29,399
marries my wife.

1997
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 2: Right, yes, how you have to impregnate the wife. Yep,

1998
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:32,399
that's okay.

1999
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,399
Speaker 1: Does that sound like a matrilineal matriarchal society.

2000
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 2: I didn't say that it was a matriarchal society.

2001
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:41,079
Speaker 1: Right, So it's patriarchal yep, okay, thank you.

2002
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 9: And in a society where women own land legally because

2003
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,399
that's a legal term, right, is that a matriarchal or

2004
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:48,199
a patriarchal?

2005
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 2: It can be both.

2006
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 1: Right.

2007
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:52,680
Speaker 2: The thing that we were talking about, the point that

2008
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:55,800
I was making is that if your for women owning land,

2009
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,359
regardless of their relationship to men, they can just I

2010
01:30:58,399 --> 01:31:00,439
can just go out and buy land, buy myself. I

2011
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:02,159
don't need my dad or my husband to say yes,

2012
01:31:02,399 --> 01:31:05,159
igal suffragette position on which is fine for you to

2013
01:31:05,239 --> 01:31:05,920
side that doesn't.

2014
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:09,720
Speaker 9: I'm just asked you a question. When you own something,

2015
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,079
whether it's property, land, a house, an object, is that

2016
01:31:13,159 --> 01:31:19,800
a legal term? Yep, ownership and legality assumes what that you?

2017
01:31:20,119 --> 01:31:21,520
Speaker 2: Oh, are you going down the enforcement arm?

2018
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2019
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 2: It assumes that the authority is being protected by the government.

2020
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 9: That in the case that the property is violated, even

2021
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:32,359
if the women's capable of holding a heavy gun and

2022
01:31:32,359 --> 01:31:35,680
shooting it accurately, it still goes to a system that

2023
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:37,960
decides whether she was just in shooting the man.

2024
01:31:38,079 --> 01:31:38,279
Speaker 1: Right.

2025
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, men are stronger, if that's where you wanted to go.

2026
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 9: It's not just men are stronger, it's that it's that

2027
01:31:43,119 --> 01:31:46,880
any argument for legal ownership of property, whether it's a

2028
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:50,560
house or land or anything else, assumes an enforcement arm

2029
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:53,600
that has to be mostly men.

2030
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether

2031
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:57,119
or not you think women should be able to own

2032
01:31:57,159 --> 01:31:57,880
private plant.

2033
01:31:58,079 --> 01:32:00,319
Speaker 9: Well, I know that. I'm just saying that's I'm trying

2034
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:01,840
to It's not a it's not a point in favor

2035
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:05,000
of feminism because it still relies on a patriarchy.

2036
01:32:05,239 --> 01:32:07,199
Speaker 2: Well, it is because the suffragettes were the one that

2037
01:32:07,239 --> 01:32:09,119
asserted it, and that was part of the feminist movement,

2038
01:32:09,159 --> 01:32:10,479
So they get the point.

2039
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 9: Any instance that you think is a feminist movement forward,

2040
01:32:16,079 --> 01:32:19,920
do you agree that anything you could list actually requires

2041
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:21,600
a patriarchy to uphold.

2042
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 2: Sort of in the way that you're now defining patriarchy

2043
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,439
as like enforcement arm. Sure, it's just that's not how anyone.

2044
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 9: I'm just saying the patriarchy would be men in power.

2045
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're talking about men in power in the

2046
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,199
enforcement arm, not the government system.

2047
01:32:36,199 --> 01:32:39,119
Speaker 9: And what's the government system without power?

2048
01:32:39,279 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 2: Banking?

2049
01:32:40,199 --> 01:32:41,359
Speaker 9: What's banking without power?

2050
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,039
Speaker 2: Okay? Do you want to go into the history of banking?

2051
01:32:45,119 --> 01:32:48,520
Speaker 9: What's banking? The exchange of banking, fair, exchange of monetary

2052
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:51,439
notes and ship without an enforcement a threat of force?

2053
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:52,119
Speaker 2: That's true.

2054
01:32:52,119 --> 01:32:54,279
Speaker 9: Thought of force is the can can I make up money?

2055
01:32:54,319 --> 01:32:55,840
Can I make up any money? Sure?

2056
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,279
Speaker 2: This is going back to Donald Trump obviously has more

2057
01:32:58,279 --> 01:32:59,800
power than like an E five solition.

2058
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:01,600
Speaker 9: Can I make up any money? Can I? Can I

2059
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:04,199
make up money? Can I just make it up? It's illegal?

2060
01:33:04,359 --> 01:33:07,039
Speaker 2: I mean for the government, Yeah, kind of No, not

2061
01:33:07,119 --> 01:33:07,720
for the government.

2062
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 9: Can I, as an individual in a society just make

2063
01:33:10,039 --> 01:33:12,319
up money? Just for okay, And if I do that,

2064
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:13,079
what happens?

2065
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:14,560
Speaker 2: You would go to jail?

2066
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:16,239
Speaker 9: And how do I go to jail? Mechanically?

2067
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 2: The police will arrest you?

2068
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 9: And are they strong men?

2069
01:33:19,199 --> 01:33:19,520
Speaker 2: Often?

2070
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2071
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:23,119
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean not all the time. They're very capable.

2072
01:33:23,159 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 9: They're lowering police not as capable, but they're lowering the standards.

2073
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:28,079
Speaker 2: I just don't know what that has to do with

2074
01:33:28,399 --> 01:33:30,039
Can women own private property?

2075
01:33:30,079 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 9: Like I understand they can? We already answered that, Well.

2076
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,720
Speaker 2: Hold on, I understand that for you, like going back

2077
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:37,640
to the enforcement arm dialogue, tree is like your strongest position,

2078
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:39,720
But I'm actually trying to flesh out your ideas about

2079
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:41,880
other things because I'm genuinely I understand.

2080
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 9: But you've got to understand when we said, yeah, you

2081
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,720
can own land, you can own stuff, you can participate

2082
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:49,800
in the society and the economics, right, you said that's

2083
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:52,159
a You basically said, so you agree with feminism. No,

2084
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,840
I'm saying that that position. I'm saying that very clearly

2085
01:33:56,279 --> 01:34:00,239
that any expression of feminism that you present is atually

2086
01:34:00,279 --> 01:34:02,479
wholly reliant on something that's not feminist.

2087
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,159
Speaker 2: Sure, that just doesn't That's all I need to get here.

2088
01:34:06,399 --> 01:34:09,159
But that doesn't suffragettes So are you saying that the

2089
01:34:09,199 --> 01:34:12,199
suffragettes didn't get women's ability to acquire land?

2090
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 9: Men men did that for them too.

2091
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:15,319
Speaker 2: The suffragets had nothing to do with it.

2092
01:34:15,399 --> 01:34:18,359
Speaker 9: No, that's just influence. I'm not I'm not denying people

2093
01:34:18,399 --> 01:34:21,520
have influence on things. Ultimately, what you're asking is the

2094
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,800
strong person to say it. So, right, So that's what

2095
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:25,920
a protest is, right, it's fair.

2096
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 2: But you agree with that, at least that suffragette.

2097
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:31,760
Speaker 9: It's an appeal to it's an appeal to the enforcement arm.

2098
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:34,319
Speaker 2: As a strong man, you're okay with women owning land

2099
01:34:34,359 --> 01:34:35,399
and you would protect that right.

2100
01:34:36,359 --> 01:34:39,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, if women own land, if my wife owns someone.

2101
01:34:39,279 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 5: Hold on one set, guys, Okay, go the sources hit

2102
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:49,800
the eye in stream yard. Okay, hold on, continue the conversation.

2103
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:54,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say even myself if if my wife

2104
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:59,159
owned land, or we co own land or land or

2105
01:34:59,199 --> 01:35:02,960
something like this. What I'm pointing to is that ultimately

2106
01:35:04,079 --> 01:35:06,279
the ownership of that, I'm gonna we're both going to

2107
01:35:06,319 --> 01:35:09,239
rely on an enforcement arm that's not going to be feminist.

2108
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:11,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, that just has nothing to do with her.

2109
01:35:11,199 --> 01:35:12,840
I was asking you, but I understand, like you want

2110
01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:13,920
to go back to the enforcement arm.

2111
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,600
Speaker 9: You really like that argument, But what's the further logical

2112
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,439
line that you're asking when you ask about property.

2113
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:22,079
Speaker 2: Is if you think women should have the right to

2114
01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:22,800
own land.

2115
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,560
Speaker 1: Because you thought that would back up feminism.

2116
01:35:25,079 --> 01:35:27,600
Speaker 2: Right now, because I'm genuinely curious if you guys think

2117
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:28,600
women should own land?

2118
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:30,600
Speaker 8: Do you think that women should be able to open

2119
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:31,720
a credit card in their name?

2120
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:32,520
Speaker 1: I thought that.

2121
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,399
Speaker 9: I think that was a bad idea. I think that

2122
01:35:34,399 --> 01:35:37,199
would have happened in nineteen seventy roughly.

2123
01:35:37,319 --> 01:35:37,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2124
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:40,560
Speaker 9: I think the consequences of that being that women now

2125
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:43,199
hold seventy five percent of consumer debt. And I don't

2126
01:35:43,239 --> 01:35:45,520
think debt is pretty good for people. I don't think

2127
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:49,039
it's a thing that they should be okay with. I

2128
01:35:49,039 --> 01:35:51,560
think people should generally work against debt, whether they're a

2129
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:53,720
man or a woman, maybe lower their debt. I think

2130
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,960
the burden of debt adds to some stress. I think

2131
01:35:57,000 --> 01:36:01,880
it could actually add to some instant uh and things

2132
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:02,239
like that.

2133
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:07,880
Speaker 8: So, and let's say hypothetically women weren't allowed to get

2134
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:11,960
a credit card most of history. No, no, for sure,

2135
01:36:12,039 --> 01:36:14,760
I'm just saying that, Well, credits relatively new, But that's

2136
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,720
a whole different conversation that we can be having. You're

2137
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:23,000
basically saying that I'm trying to think, sorry, I'm trying

2138
01:36:23,039 --> 01:36:23,720
to like phrase the.

2139
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:27,119
Speaker 1: Words it's just dead. How is credit?

2140
01:36:27,359 --> 01:36:30,039
Speaker 8: No, No, it's what if a woman like in her

2141
01:36:30,079 --> 01:36:32,319
own time, like this isn't like a requirement that it

2142
01:36:32,399 --> 01:36:34,560
should be. So I'm saying, on her own time, she

2143
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:37,640
did her research and she got a financial literacy class.

2144
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:40,159
You're basically saying, well, you can't have it anyway, even

2145
01:36:40,159 --> 01:36:42,720
if you're more financially literate than other men. Are the

2146
01:36:43,119 --> 01:36:45,920
than men because you're a woman is basically where you're

2147
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,079
going at. Because what if she is financially literate, Because

2148
01:36:48,119 --> 01:36:50,960
you're making a broad statement saying women shouldn't have it

2149
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:53,159
because they're not financial what if they are?

2150
01:36:53,279 --> 01:36:55,079
Speaker 1: So once again, this is like the third time you've

2151
01:36:55,159 --> 01:36:57,239
argued that the exceptions should make the rule.

2152
01:36:57,479 --> 01:36:59,359
Speaker 2: This would really be an exception based.

2153
01:36:59,079 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 9: On what's saying.

2154
01:37:00,079 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 1: Her exception was a woman who went and studied it.

2155
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:03,520
Speaker 2: It's not an exception.

2156
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:07,359
Speaker 1: Though, right to study economics better than men is an exception.

2157
01:37:07,399 --> 01:37:09,079
Speaker 2: He's asking a line of it's an exception.

2158
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: Her example is an exception.

2159
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:11,880
Speaker 9: It is just accepted.

2160
01:37:12,119 --> 01:37:18,079
Speaker 2: It's not an exception. Okay, exception. You know you want

2161
01:37:18,119 --> 01:37:21,479
me to I want to talk to me, you have to.

2162
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:25,479
You're just going to interrupt. I've already talked about you.

2163
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:29,000
You know you can dunk. I often look up when

2164
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,920
I think that's fine apparently, So do you want me

2165
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:32,720
to answer you?

2166
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:34,640
Speaker 1: Is that an exception?

2167
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:38,640
Speaker 2: It's not an exception because it's completely normative to assume

2168
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:41,399
that multiple women can go and get financial literacy.

2169
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:43,520
Speaker 8: Well, you know, if you're wanting her to stare you

2170
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:45,079
in the eyes, will arguing why don't you take your

2171
01:37:45,079 --> 01:37:45,640
shades off?

2172
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 1: Because I am so much on drugs right now?

2173
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,520
Speaker 2: Okay, in fairness, he has eye floaters. I will give

2174
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:55,560
him that points he's got like eye floaters, although it

2175
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:58,479
wouldn't be better if you took them off so that

2176
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:05,840
you can where DA got incredible blue eyes.

2177
01:38:06,399 --> 01:38:09,079
Speaker 9: That's what I want to do, isn't the isn't an exception?

2178
01:38:09,319 --> 01:38:12,479
The something that's paired up against most.

2179
01:38:14,079 --> 01:38:19,039
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, but again you're most thank you in this case.

2180
01:38:19,199 --> 01:38:22,159
Speaker 9: Hold on making this so complicated.

2181
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:23,960
Speaker 2: Because you're being false analogous right now. What's the false

2182
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:27,359
and the false analogy is to imply, well, you used

2183
01:38:27,359 --> 01:38:29,239
it incorrectly last time. You did.

2184
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 9: In fact, where's the analogy anyway?

2185
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 2: The analogy here now is between men and women and

2186
01:38:34,039 --> 01:38:36,960
a comparison line on financial literacy. And so you're saying, well,

2187
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:38,680
most women aren't financially literate.

2188
01:38:39,159 --> 01:38:42,239
Speaker 1: Most men better than men.

2189
01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:45,079
Speaker 2: You got to finish, so most men are also not

2190
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:47,680
financially nothing to do with example. I will get there

2191
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:50,920
if you if you the whole podcast. If you don't

2192
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:52,960
want to listen and just interrupt me, that's fine, But

2193
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:53,479
then we can't.

2194
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:55,680
Speaker 1: It's a dumb You gotta let me finish.

2195
01:38:55,399 --> 01:38:57,600
Speaker 2: My let me finish my statement.

2196
01:38:59,039 --> 01:38:59,399
Speaker 1: Reception.

2197
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:02,840
Speaker 2: You gotta to finish my segment once you're done. Once

2198
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,199
you're done, I'll go back hang yourself again. Okay, So

2199
01:39:05,319 --> 01:39:07,319
there are The issue that you're having is that when

2200
01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:09,680
you're talking about how women are not most women are

2201
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,199
not financially literate, men are also not mostly financially literate.

2202
01:39:13,239 --> 01:39:16,239
So you not you need you need to create a

2203
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:21,199
line of credulity beyond financial literacy that makes women exceptionally

2204
01:39:21,239 --> 01:39:24,159
incapable of having a credit card that men don't have.

2205
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:27,520
If your exceptional line, if your lineup, you got to

2206
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,319
let me finish. I'm going to keep talking until you

2207
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,840
let me finish. You gotta let me finish off studies.

2208
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:35,479
I'm just going to keep talking you all, and I'm

2209
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:37,840
going to pick up exactly where I want till you're done. Interesting.

2210
01:39:38,199 --> 01:39:39,880
I'm going to keep going until you let me pick

2211
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:40,760
up exactly where I was.

2212
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:42,119
Speaker 9: You can't kill a buster.

2213
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:43,600
Speaker 2: This is all you can.

2214
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:46,279
Speaker 9: Give yourself.

2215
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:50,119
Speaker 2: I'm just going to wait until you actually But you're

2216
01:39:50,199 --> 01:39:53,159
the version and he's one of the greatest debaters on

2217
01:39:53,199 --> 01:39:57,239
the planet. So that's totally okay that you're I know,

2218
01:39:57,439 --> 01:39:59,279
once you're done, I going to know about So the lineup.

2219
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:02,119
Speaker 1: The worst on there and you're the worst version.

2220
01:40:02,279 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 2: Again, and tell you can tru if you want to. Okay.

2221
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:08,159
So the line of cadulity good one, it's just a

2222
01:40:08,239 --> 01:40:11,880
machine gun line of credulity. The line of cadulity that

2223
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:14,000
you have to stablish at some point is why men

2224
01:40:14,039 --> 01:40:16,520
are exceptional in the case of credit cards, that women

2225
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,960
are not. In the line your financial literary talking to yourself,

2226
01:40:20,119 --> 01:40:23,600
for example, what's financial literacy? And there's no rule, No,

2227
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:27,680
it was literacy. Who agree with that part?

2228
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:29,319
Speaker 1: Those helps what you said.

2229
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:32,399
Speaker 8: No, there's no reason a woman can't be financially literate.

2230
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 1: So she just have you set a woman who goes

2231
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,560
and studies beyond what most men.

2232
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,159
Speaker 2: She was asking for a line of cadulity. So she says, okay,

2233
01:40:40,199 --> 01:40:42,960
if your bar of the issue is that financial literacy

2234
01:40:43,239 --> 01:40:45,720
the rule? Why can women who become financially literate and

2235
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:47,840
not apply for credit cards? Now you have to establish

2236
01:40:47,880 --> 01:40:50,319
the reason a woman who is financially literate can't apply

2237
01:40:50,359 --> 01:40:50,880
for a credit card.

2238
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:52,319
Speaker 1: I've never said that they couldn't.

2239
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 2: So you're fine with women that are financial.

2240
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 1: Positions that are not relevant to what she argued?

2241
01:40:57,039 --> 01:40:59,039
Speaker 2: So are you okay with women who are financially.

2242
01:40:59,159 --> 01:41:01,319
Speaker 1: I'm responding to her critique.

2243
01:41:01,359 --> 01:41:02,640
Speaker 2: I can let her ask you the same.

2244
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:04,399
Speaker 1: Exceptions don't make the rule?

2245
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:07,119
Speaker 2: Are you fine with women who are? Are you fine

2246
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:09,000
with women who are financially getting a cast?

2247
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 1: It's like talking to a thirteen year old child.

2248
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:11,600
Speaker 2: Do you want to answer her?

2249
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:13,840
Speaker 1: Exceptions don't make It's.

2250
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 2: An exception at all.

2251
01:41:15,159 --> 01:41:18,319
Speaker 1: Financially is not a woman who studies it more than

2252
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:19,159
the average man.

2253
01:41:19,319 --> 01:41:20,520
Speaker 2: She gave you one study.

2254
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,399
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean an exception, thank you.

2255
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:25,239
Speaker 2: No, that was one. It's a case study to test

2256
01:41:25,279 --> 01:41:26,079
the example.

2257
01:41:26,159 --> 01:41:26,840
Speaker 1: That's an exception.

2258
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 2: It's not an exception to the rule. It's a case

2259
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:30,079
study to test your logic.

2260
01:41:30,399 --> 01:41:31,399
Speaker 1: How is hay study?

2261
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:33,520
Speaker 2: She just said an example she was giving one person.

2262
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:35,399
Speaker 1: That's not study, it is.

2263
01:41:35,279 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 2: It's focusing in an example.

2264
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 1: Is a case study?

2265
01:41:38,159 --> 01:41:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, it's a focus the study.

2266
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:41,439
Speaker 1: What case?

2267
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:43,079
Speaker 2: Nobody hears your thank you?

2268
01:41:43,079 --> 01:41:44,119
Speaker 1: So it's not a case. No, you're just.

2269
01:41:44,239 --> 01:41:46,199
Speaker 2: Certivocating now where you're acting like when I start.

2270
01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:48,159
Speaker 1: Using the words that I used yesterday because you're a

2271
01:41:48,199 --> 01:41:51,640
gas lighter and you can't actually debate, okay, gas light

2272
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:53,479
from everything that I said yesterday.

2273
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:53,800
Speaker 2: I know you're really.

2274
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:56,359
Speaker 1: Would repeat them.

2275
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:57,600
Speaker 2: I'll just wait for you to be done.

2276
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:00,199
Speaker 1: Do you want to say Texas sharpshooter fallacy because you

2277
01:42:00,199 --> 01:42:01,680
looked it up last night? You want to you want

2278
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:02,199
to do that one?

2279
01:42:02,239 --> 01:42:06,039
Speaker 9: No, I didn't actually look at You're belaboring something that

2280
01:42:06,079 --> 01:42:09,920
you should just concede you she she gave an exception. Exception,

2281
01:42:10,159 --> 01:42:13,520
you're talking over me. She gave her an exception that

2282
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:16,960
she listed. An exception is a very specific exception, right,

2283
01:42:17,159 --> 01:42:20,319
she described it. Jay responded to the exceptions not an exception,

2284
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:22,920
it is how can you not say that this is so?

2285
01:42:23,319 --> 01:42:25,840
Speaker 2: I can't explain to you. Again, the reason that it's

2286
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:27,840
not an exception is that she wasn't saying in this

2287
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:29,720
one unique case where this woman is exception.

2288
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:32,760
Speaker 1: She gave you an example of a woman who did it. Breathe,

2289
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:34,439
you have an exception.

2290
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:36,520
Speaker 2: Jay, you have to let me finish talking. Or again

2291
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:38,399
the audience, when you ever get anything.

2292
01:42:38,119 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 1: It is so dumb. Fine, everyone's IQ literally starts going

2293
01:42:42,159 --> 01:42:42,680
point yeah.

2294
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:44,000
Speaker 2: Good one, Jay, we're getting to.

2295
01:42:44,039 --> 01:42:45,600
Speaker 1: The eighty IQ level every time.

2296
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 2: Once you're done, once you're done, all of your sick

2297
01:42:48,039 --> 01:42:49,920
device to zero.

2298
01:42:50,279 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 1: Please, good God, please help me.

2299
01:42:53,079 --> 01:42:56,199
Speaker 2: They're almost zero from you and Brian. If you want

2300
01:42:56,239 --> 01:42:57,960
me to engage with this, I can. We can also

2301
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:58,319
move on.

2302
01:42:58,399 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 9: But if he's going to get or what determines if

2303
01:43:01,039 --> 01:43:04,359
something's an exception, it's a criteria.

2304
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:07,159
Speaker 2: Something that is so like atypically be like less than

2305
01:43:07,159 --> 01:43:08,720
like I don't know, like five percent. It has to

2306
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:12,159
be something that is, oh, it has to be so

2307
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:16,159
that's normal. So for example, a way that we could

2308
01:43:16,199 --> 01:43:19,000
apply this this fallacy correctly, if you want me to

2309
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:21,560
talk you through it, is say we're talking about body count,

2310
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:23,720
and then we find this one case of a woman

2311
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:26,239
that has a hundred body count, and it turns out

2312
01:43:26,239 --> 01:43:28,680
that after she does that, she has a really long

2313
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:31,680
successful marriage in life. And if I use that to

2314
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:35,239
prove c body count doesn't matter, you would say, well,

2315
01:43:35,279 --> 01:43:36,880
that's a bit an exception to the rule. It doesn't

2316
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:38,760
make that the rule that generally that the higher the

2317
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:41,840
body count is that they're more less likely to be consistent.

2318
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:46,119
Are you going on, Jake, your friend asked me a question,

2319
01:43:46,199 --> 01:43:48,039
I need to answer it, So you don't.

2320
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:51,439
Speaker 1: Answer, literally, just the machine gun vomit out of your

2321
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:53,159
for like minutes on.

2322
01:43:53,239 --> 01:43:57,359
Speaker 2: End, and all you do is interrupt, constantly, make loud.

2323
01:43:57,079 --> 01:44:00,520
Speaker 1: Amuting noise arguments over the dumbest ship that not even

2324
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:01,840
relevant to the exception.

2325
01:44:02,039 --> 01:44:04,239
Speaker 2: I'm allowed. I'm allowed to be.

2326
01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:07,840
Speaker 1: In fact in your.

2327
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:12,520
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you asked me to debate you. So

2328
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:14,560
if this is a problem for you, that's fine. But

2329
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:16,760
you agreed to these engagements. If you don't want to

2330
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:18,800
debate me in the future, you don't have to. But

2331
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:21,880
if you asked me, you reached out to me. And

2332
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:24,079
why did you reach out in the first place? Why

2333
01:44:24,079 --> 01:44:25,600
did you ask for Brian to host us?

2334
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: Why does it matter if I reached out to you?

2335
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:31,800
Speaker 2: Because you want to debate me, which means that you've agreed.

2336
01:44:31,399 --> 01:44:32,560
Speaker 1: To some level of debate.

2337
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:40,640
Speaker 2: But the issue is that again, if you know one

2338
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:41,960
thing that's pretty telling is