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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking
Speaker 5: Killers in True crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 3: Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 3: program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime
Speaker 3: history and the authors that are written about them. The
Speaker 3: East Area rapist would break into middle class homes and
Speaker 3: respectable neighborhoods in the dark of night, tie up his
Speaker 3: victims and tell them over and over they were going
Speaker 3: to die. Well, he didn't kill them, and didn't kill anyone,
Speaker 3: not at first. The East Area rapists got his start
Speaker 3: in the summer of nineteen seventy six in Sacramento County
Speaker 3: and raped thirty women between June nineteen seventy six. In
Speaker 3: July nineteen seventy eight, he moved on to Contra Acosta County,
Speaker 3: in October nineteen seventy eight, and then continued south to
Speaker 3: Santa Barbara and Orange Counties, where he was known as
Speaker 3: the Knightstalker, named before his crimes were linked to those
Speaker 3: up north. Psychiatrists helping the task force talk with imprisoned
Speaker 3: sex offenders who said East Area Rapist was looking for
Speaker 3: an excuse to kill, not just a rape. They were right.
Speaker 3: Larry Crompton was working in the crime Lab in Contracostron
Speaker 3: the county doing crime scene investigations when East Area Rapist
Speaker 3: arrived in late nineteen seventy nine. After Eyre's third attack,
Speaker 3: a task force of local police agencies, the DA's office
Speaker 3: and the Crime Lab was formed and Crompton was appointed
Speaker 3: to it. First murder was a double homicide in Santa
Speaker 3: Barbara County in December nineteen seventy nine. As attacks continued
Speaker 3: until after another double homicide in nineteen eighty one, the
Speaker 3: East Airy Rapist vanished for five years. He reappeared for
Speaker 3: another double homicide and made nineteen eighty six. Larry Crompton
Speaker 3: had retired, but in May two thousand he got a
Speaker 3: call from a criminologist in Contra Costra County who was
Speaker 3: working with DNA and the EAR files. Crompton gave him
Speaker 3: the names of three rape victims, and by July it
Speaker 3: was confirmed that the same man was behind them. Further
Speaker 3: DNA worked proved in two thousand and one and six
Speaker 3: of the ten murders then attributed to EAR were by
Speaker 3: the same person, and in April two thousand and two,
Speaker 3: the Orange County Sheriff's Office slew Crompton down to help
Speaker 3: with the investigation. The East Airy rapist or original Nightstalker,
Speaker 3: has yet to be arrested. The book we're featuring this
Speaker 3: evening is Sudden Terror, with my special guests, police officer
Speaker 3: and author Larry Crompton. Welcome to the program, and thank
Speaker 3: you for agreeing to this interview. Larry Crompton, Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 6: I really appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 3: I apologize because I was there was a little bit
Speaker 3: of confusion in what I was reading. You were retired
Speaker 3: detective or lieutenant? What would you want to be considered
Speaker 3: retired from the police force.
Speaker 6: The main thing is retired, But I didn't retire as
Speaker 6: a lieutenant, but working on the task force, I was
Speaker 6: a sergeant.
Speaker 3: I see, I got it. Okay, okay, now let's get
Speaker 3: to when this happened in nineteen seventy six, Where were
Speaker 3: you and what was your What was your impression of
Speaker 3: the first when you first heard about the first rapes
Speaker 3: that were heard that occurred in nineteen seventy six, Where
Speaker 3: were you and what were you What were your thoughts
Speaker 3: at that time?
Speaker 6: I knew nothing about it. Things were different then than
Speaker 6: what they are now. If you didn't live in the
Speaker 6: town or close to it, or didn't get that newspaper,
Speaker 6: you didn't hear about these things. Contracosta is not that
Speaker 6: far from Sacramento, but we knew nothing about the East
Speaker 6: area rapist and knew nothing until August of nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 6: when the sergeant that was in charge of their task force,
Speaker 6: Sergeant Jim Bevans, and the Lieutenant Ray Root, came down
Speaker 6: to Conquered and had a meeting with us. And at
Speaker 6: that time I was working in the crime lab and
Speaker 6: the sheriff asked if I would go to that meeting,
Speaker 6: and one of the criminalists with me, and that's the
Speaker 6: first time we heard about it. And again sitting there
Speaker 6: and listening to them tell us about rapes that occurred
Speaker 6: in Sacramento, and all we could think of is we're
Speaker 6: in Contra cost To County. We don't have people like
Speaker 6: that down here, so this isn't going to bother us.
Speaker 6: We learned differently right now.
Speaker 3: In terms of the crime scene investigation, I know that
Speaker 3: as far as I know, it's you're part of a team.
Speaker 3: What area of expertise do you have and what in
Speaker 3: terms of your contribution and your job in this team
Speaker 3: doing crime scene investigations.
Speaker 6: Well, what my job was was to go to crime
Speaker 6: scenes and we would process them fingerprints and photographs and
Speaker 6: things like that. And also one of the things that
Speaker 6: I had to do in homicides was to go to
Speaker 6: the take pictures of the murdered victim as the doctors
Speaker 6: are working on them doing the autopsies and I would
Speaker 6: have to photograph them. But mainly it was to go
Speaker 6: to the scene and do the processing of the scenes.
Speaker 6: Prior to that, I had no experience in it at all.
Speaker 6: I got to the crime lab, saw some of the
Speaker 6: books that they were reading and I couldn't even pronounce them.
Speaker 6: But the crime Libe in Contra Costa County was an
Speaker 6: excellent one and the people that were in there were
Speaker 6: excellent and worked with me very well, and took me
Speaker 6: under their arm and taught me what I needed to know.
Speaker 3: Now, you say there was things were different in those days.
Speaker 3: If a crime occurred in a certain county. Were we
Speaker 3: talking for those people that don't know the expanse of
Speaker 3: distance in California? The difference between northern and southern California
Speaker 3: in terms of distance between where he started in Sacramento
Speaker 3: and where you were. What kind of mileage are we
Speaker 3: talking about? How many counties away or what's the distance?
Speaker 6: Well, there's only one county between us in as Solano County,
Speaker 6: so you can get there within well because of the traffic,
Speaker 6: and California is going to take a little longer than
Speaker 6: what you would think, but within a couple hours you
Speaker 6: could be there.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, So take us back to June seventeenth. I
Speaker 3: know that you just mentioned that you really didn't know
Speaker 3: about that, But take us back like you were there
Speaker 3: in June seventeen, nineteen seventy six, because you do a
Speaker 3: great job of Obviously there are ten murders here, but
Speaker 3: there's also a multitude of rapes and then you talk
Speaker 3: about the escalation. So where he started and where he
Speaker 3: ended up as a rapist, killer, serial rapist killer. But
Speaker 3: June seventeenth, you talk about Carry Frank and tell us
Speaker 3: about Carry Frank, and this is an amazing part of
Speaker 3: the book where you have the opportunity because she survived
Speaker 3: and it gives you the details, and you've written about
Speaker 3: that in the book, So tell us about Kerry Frank
Speaker 3: And June seventeenth, nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 6: Well, Carrie was home alone. Her father was out of
Speaker 6: town and she didn't expect him back for a while,
Speaker 6: and she thought that she was being watched in May
Speaker 6: of nineteen seventy six, and she received several hang up
Speaker 6: phone calls for two weeks before the attack, and she
Speaker 6: felt that somebody was watching her. But because of the
Speaker 6: phone calls, she was very, very nervous. And this night
Speaker 6: when he did come in, when she first was awoken,
Speaker 6: she thought it was her father, but obviously it wasn't.
Speaker 6: And prior to him getting in, he tried to cut
Speaker 6: the phone line going into the house, and that is
Speaker 6: something that he did in many of the attacks, is
Speaker 6: that he would disable the phone so that they couldn't call.
Speaker 6: He tied her up, like he did all of them
Speaker 6: after that, and one thing about this is his modus
Speaker 6: of doing this. In the first attack he got a
Speaker 6: little more sophisticated, but it was the same way. He
Speaker 6: tied her hands behind her back extremely tight. He tied
Speaker 6: her ankles very loose, and he talked through clenched teeth,
Speaker 6: told her that all he wanted was food and money,
Speaker 6: and didn't want to hurt her and wasn't going to
Speaker 6: hurt her, and he didn't blindfold her. In other ones
Speaker 6: he did he started blindfolding, but in this one here
Speaker 6: he asked her do you have money? He ransacked the house.
Speaker 6: And one thing that in this attack and the ones afterwards,
Speaker 6: he always lubricated himself. And this victim here carry Frank,
Speaker 6: and all ones after that all said that he was
Speaker 6: very small, in doubt, very tiny, and never did have
Speaker 6: a full erection in any of these attacks. She she
Speaker 6: could describe him only that he wore a dark T
Speaker 6: shirt and dirty white or gray ski mask with holes
Speaker 6: for the eyes. And when he woke her up, he
Speaker 6: had no pants on. He did have his tennis shoes on,
Speaker 6: but no pants. And this is something that he did
Speaker 6: in rapes after that also, but not in everyone.
Speaker 3: Now did he say right from the very first with
Speaker 3: carry Frank, you're going to die. He threaten. Did he
Speaker 3: threaten her? Yes?
Speaker 6: He did. He threatened every one of them. And my
Speaker 6: feeling is that is what he wanted to do right
Speaker 6: from the start, was to kill, but did not. And
Speaker 6: in talking to a psychiatrist later on at the Vacaville
Speaker 6: Medical Center, she told me she had talked to her
Speaker 6: sex offenders at the medical center and they all said
Speaker 6: you had better catch him because he wants to kill.
Speaker 6: And I asked her why hasn't he and she said, well,
Speaker 6: he does not yet have the justification. Once he gets
Speaker 6: the justification, he's going to kill. And I said, will
Speaker 6: he kill every time? And she said no, but the
Speaker 6: justification will be less each time. So Carrie Frank that
Speaker 6: was the one thing that she really had in her
Speaker 6: mind during all of this was she was going to die.
Speaker 6: And that's what he put in each one of their minds,
Speaker 6: whether it was the woman or the man, and the woman,
Speaker 6: they were going to die.
Speaker 3: Now was Carrie compliant to his orders? Was she? Or
Speaker 3: was she struggling? What was no? What would she ought
Speaker 3: to do?
Speaker 6: She was compliant because she was extremely frightened. She did
Speaker 6: what she had to do to stay alive. And in
Speaker 6: talking to some of them. That's what I told him,
Speaker 6: that you had to go along with it. If not,
Speaker 6: you would have died. And that's the way it was
Speaker 6: up until he started the killings.
Speaker 3: What was the general size of this man in terms
Speaker 3: of her just carry Frank's description of him, sort of
Speaker 3: weigh and height.
Speaker 6: He was about five nine five ten and probably about
Speaker 6: one hundred and seventy pounds. And they all come out
Speaker 6: about the same way and felt that he was not old,
Speaker 6: could have been anywhere from nineteen twenty five years old.
Speaker 6: And other than that, they couldn't really tell because they
Speaker 6: didn't see him. He always wore the mask, he always
Speaker 6: wore gloves. We never get fingerprints from him, and never
Speaker 6: got a real good description of him. And what he
Speaker 6: would do is he would use a flashlight to wake
Speaker 6: them up a lot of times, and he would either
Speaker 6: tap on the doorsill or he would say something to
Speaker 6: them and shine the light in their eyes. And then
Speaker 6: a lot of times he would blindfold them. But he
Speaker 6: would put them on their stomachs and tie their hands
Speaker 6: behind their back extremely tight, and on Carrie Frank along
Speaker 6: with the rest of them, it cut the blood circulation
Speaker 6: off to their hands very very painful.
Speaker 3: No, how long did the attack? How long would this
Speaker 3: attack last?
Speaker 6: It would depend It could last two to three hours.
Speaker 6: It depends on what was going on. If it was
Speaker 6: a single female, then obviously it didn't take as long
Speaker 6: as if there was a man in the house. And
Speaker 6: sometimes what you'll find in reading the book, sometimes if
Speaker 6: things were not going exactly the way that he wanted
Speaker 6: them to, he would leave and he had this system
Speaker 6: going and he had to follow it.
Speaker 3: Now, getting back to carry Frank, how is it that
Speaker 3: she escapes and she believes that she's going to die,
Speaker 3: so she acts accordingly when she has an opportunity. He's
Speaker 3: ransacking the place. Tell us what happens.
Speaker 6: Well, while he is ransacking, she is listening, but she's
Speaker 6: not doing anything. And she was just that night. She
Speaker 6: was just looking forward to a good night. And then
Speaker 6: he comes in.
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Speaker 6: Website retails, and it just was horrible. For the house
Speaker 6: obviously was lonely because her father was not there, and
Speaker 6: she fell asleep in the room, and just out of
Speaker 6: the darkness, this figure came in. And when he stood
Speaker 6: in the in the house, like I say, it's just uh,
Speaker 6: he was half naked, moved through the house and went
Speaker 6: to her room. And in this case, he tapped on
Speaker 6: the uh on the doorway and that woke carry up,
Speaker 6: brought her out of a sound sleep, and her bedroom
Speaker 6: light flashed on. He turned that on, and she was
Speaker 6: just scared to death. Dulled her senses, and she said
Speaker 6: she looked into his eyes, although like I say, he
Speaker 6: had a mask, but she could see into his eyes.
Speaker 6: She could see the knife that he had. She knew
Speaker 6: that he uh had gloves on, and he just continued
Speaker 6: tapping against the door frame, and he had an erect penis,
Speaker 6: and that obviously her attention. But again she described it
Speaker 6: as very small, and she said that she was unable
Speaker 6: to form thoughts. And he leaped onto her bed and
Speaker 6: she tried to pull the covers up over her head.
Speaker 6: And to protect herself from what she felt was like
Speaker 6: an awful nightmare. And unfortunately the nightmare didn't leave, and
Speaker 6: he took the blankets off of her and he just
Speaker 6: stared at her and her she said her ears were ringing,
Speaker 6: and he told her if you make one move, if
Speaker 6: you make one sound, I'll stick this knife in you.
Speaker 6: And she said that when he talked, and she mentioned
Speaker 6: the same as others, that it seemed like he was
Speaker 6: talking through clenched teeth. And he just moved to the
Speaker 6: side of her bed and pointed at her nightgown and
Speaker 6: said take it off. And unfortunately, at that time it
Speaker 6: was her period, and he told her to take the
Speaker 6: tampacts out. It didn't seem to bother him in the least.
Speaker 6: He just whispered take it out. And they told her
Speaker 6: told her to roll over and grabbed her arms and
Speaker 6: she could feel the gloved hands and the rope just
Speaker 6: bit into her wrists like it does with all of them.
Speaker 6: From then on, she kept her eyes closed, said she
Speaker 6: didn't want to open them, she didn't want to look
Speaker 6: at him. She just wanted to go away, and said
Speaker 6: it wasn't the rape that she would remember most. It
Speaker 6: wasn't the rape that would make her want to scream
Speaker 6: and leave in the middle of the night. It was
Speaker 6: a terror he left her with, and that terror was
Speaker 6: that she was going to die, and that was one
Speaker 6: one of the things that she could not get out
Speaker 6: of her mind. And he kept asking her, do you
Speaker 6: have money? Do you have money? And when she tried
Speaker 6: the answer, he told her to shut up. And she
Speaker 6: could hear him rummaging in the bedroom, and this is
Speaker 6: things that he did, and just tied her ankles up
Speaker 6: so she couldn't get out of bed, and then rummaged
Speaker 6: some more in the bedroom, and and he put the
Speaker 6: knife near her eye and said, don't make a move
Speaker 6: while I'm here, or I'll kill you. And he kept
Speaker 6: telling her, I'll kill you, I'll kill you, and she
Speaker 6: just the way that he did on this one here
Speaker 6: we believe, and we're pretty sure of this. He talked
Speaker 6: as though there was somebody else in the room with him,
Speaker 6: in the house with him, But I don't think that
Speaker 6: that was happening. I think it was him and this
Speaker 6: was just something that he tried, and that was it.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of interesting that he must have been
Speaker 3: interesting the police that he wasn't that interested about DNA.
Speaker 3: But then we're talking about nineteen seventy six though, But
Speaker 3: he's not very cautious. He doesn't use a condom.
Speaker 6: Well, we didn't have DNA back then, We didn't know
Speaker 6: about DNA back then, so there really wasn't a problem
Speaker 6: that way. There was nothing that could have helped the
Speaker 6: only thing that we did find out was that he
Speaker 6: was a non secretor, and non secrets about twenty percent
Speaker 6: of the population, and through non secrets you can't get
Speaker 6: the blood type through any secretion, So I'm sure he
Speaker 6: didn't know he was a non secret But other than that,
Speaker 6: if we had not kept this evidence, we never would
Speaker 6: have been able to figure out anything about him. And
Speaker 6: so he didn't have to worry about that, and he
Speaker 6: didn't worry about it. And like I say, he lubricated
Speaker 6: himself on these attacks, and sometimes he brought the lubricant
Speaker 6: with him, and sometimes he used what they had in
Speaker 6: the bathroom. Sometimes he would break into the house when
Speaker 6: they weren't home and set it up and leave shoelaces
Speaker 6: hid in someplace and leave a door or a window
Speaker 6: unlocked that normally wasn't unlocked, and then he would come
Speaker 6: back later and when once they fell asleep, same thing
Speaker 6: with Kerry Frank. He waited until she was asleep. I'm
Speaker 6: sure he was outside that house for a long time
Speaker 6: waiting for her to go to sleep. This isn't something
Speaker 6: that that he would just arrive at the house and
Speaker 6: go in and with carry Frank and with others. The
Speaker 6: hang up phone calls that they received is something that
Speaker 6: showed up in a lot of them also, so we
Speaker 6: know that he was in the neighborhoods. He was canvassing
Speaker 6: the neighborhoods, and he would see somebody that would get
Speaker 6: into his mind and that's where he was going to go.
Speaker 6: And my feeling is that once he made up his
Speaker 6: mind who he was going after, he would get that person.
Speaker 6: And like I've said, I believe that if he had to,
Speaker 6: he would have gone down the chimney. But he was
Speaker 6: going to go into that house one way or the other,
Speaker 6: and he was going after that person.
Speaker 3: Now we just talk about carry Frank, but you were
Speaker 3: talking about already talking about the similarities. Did he use
Speaker 3: sort of carry Frank or did it seem like the
Speaker 3: first rapes were sort of attempt Late he seemed to
Speaker 3: work out whatever little challenges he had. And then but
Speaker 3: you say he proceeded fairly methodically and carefully, and if
Speaker 3: he thought something was off, he would leave. So tell
Speaker 3: us as it progresses in nineteen seventy six, what becomes
Speaker 3: his sort of You've already talked about his m O.
Speaker 3: But is it very similar? And were the first rate
Speaker 3: sort of a template of success? And so he continues
Speaker 3: like that, tell us how it really works.
Speaker 6: Well. My feeling on it is that he had to
Speaker 6: have known what he was going to do before he
Speaker 6: put this together. As I got into it and was
Speaker 6: working on the task force, I thought nobody could have
Speaker 6: just started out this way, And we know through psychiatrists
Speaker 6: and all that that most of them start out with
Speaker 6: leaving Tom's and then maybe go to killing animals or
Speaker 6: whatever and then get into this. But my feeling was
Speaker 6: that because of the way that he did it and
Speaker 6: the template that he had, it was a good thing.
Speaker 6: That maybe he had been in prison for something else
Speaker 6: and had worked this out with other prisoners and figured
Speaker 6: out the best way to do it. Because of that,
Speaker 6: I got the names of pearl Lees over a six
Speaker 6: month period and went through them. Didn't do me any good,
Speaker 6: So maybe that wasn't it. But he did have this
Speaker 6: plan worked out and he stayed with that plan. Now,
Speaker 6: when he first started, obviously it was a single female,
Speaker 6: and I think he wanted to be known. He wanted
Speaker 6: this out there, he wanted the publicity, and as the
Speaker 6: newspaper did finally pick it up and put in there
Speaker 6: that there was always single females and no male in
Speaker 6: the home. His next attack was one with a male
Speaker 6: in the home. So obviously he had been school because
Speaker 6: he could read. And other than that, we didn't have
Speaker 6: much on him at all, and it was very, very frustrating.
Speaker 3: Did he taunt? Did he as many of these guys do,
Speaker 3: serial rapists, serial killers? Did he do any taunting of
Speaker 3: police or victims? You said he had hang up calls beforehand,
Speaker 3: so just to check out who he was choosing as
Speaker 3: a victim. But is there any indication he kept trophies
Speaker 3: or anything that some of the other serial killers seemed
Speaker 3: to have share characteristically.
Speaker 6: Yes, one of the things that we found that he
Speaker 6: did take was driver's licenses or ID cards from colleges
Speaker 6: of the women. He would take jewelry, he took money.
Speaker 6: But the strange thing is, obviously it wasn't for the money.
Speaker 6: There was one incident where they had a lot of
Speaker 6: money and he took half of it. And there were
Speaker 6: times when he really was irritated because he couldn't get
Speaker 6: a diamond ring off one of the victim's fingers, and
Speaker 6: she tried to tell him put soap on it, do this,
Speaker 6: do that, and he couldn't get it off. He finally
Speaker 6: got it off and he told her if I can't
Speaker 6: get this off, I'll cut your finger off. Before he
Speaker 6: left the house, he just threw the ring on the floor.
Speaker 6: It wasn't the ring that he was after. It was
Speaker 6: the terror that he was after. And in every one
Speaker 6: of his attacks, terror was number one. Rape was in
Speaker 6: the back of his mind. Obviously.
Speaker 3: Now right from the very beginning you talk about, well,
Speaker 3: there's many stories where police have no idea. In hindsight,
Speaker 3: everybody's a genius, But initially was there any How long
Speaker 3: did it take police to realize that there was a sophisticated,
Speaker 3: maybe cereal rapist at work, and how how long did
Speaker 3: it take them to figure that out?
Speaker 6: It was probably three or four rapes before Sacramento Sheriff's
Speaker 6: Office finally put it together. I think Jim Bevans the
Speaker 6: sergeant at that time that was an investigation. I think
Speaker 6: he probably was the one that finally said, oh, we
Speaker 6: have something going here and we better be ready. And
Speaker 6: once they got into it, then they spent millions of
Speaker 6: dollars looking for this person, and over time that the
Speaker 6: officers didn't even put in for because they wanted to
Speaker 6: catch him. These are deputies on the street, the detectives whatever.
Speaker 6: They knew that they had somebody, and they knew in
Speaker 6: their mind that before long somebody was going to get killed.
Speaker 6: And it wasn't too long after that that. Remember in
Speaker 6: the book, sixteen year old boy was shot and what
Speaker 6: happened there The people in a house heard people as
Speaker 6: somebody in the backyard and saw him and chased him,
Speaker 6: the father and the son, and the son was faster
Speaker 6: than the father, and the rapist got over the fence
Speaker 6: and the boy got to the fence, climbed up on it,
Speaker 6: and he was crouched on the other side, pointing the
Speaker 6: gun up and shot the boy. Fortunately he lived. But
Speaker 6: what psychiatrist told us was that he will kill he
Speaker 6: will not be caught. He will kill police officers, He'll
Speaker 6: kill anybody, and then if that fails, he'll kill himself,
Speaker 6: but he does not want to it caught, and so
Speaker 6: we knew that he would shoot. And that was February
Speaker 6: of seventy seven that he shot that kid, So you know,
Speaker 6: it was nearly near the beginning.
Speaker 3: And so right away analysts looking at this because I
Speaker 3: could see where they could get that conclusion too. He
Speaker 3: could shoot a sixteen year old boy instead of continuing
Speaker 3: to run. He could have continued to run, but he
Speaker 3: shot him, so he tried to kill him. And so
Speaker 3: from there it's it's not much of a leap to say, well,
Speaker 3: maybe I doesn't want to be in prison. So they
Speaker 3: were right in all their predictions, at least with this
Speaker 3: following of this guy. Now, how big a story is
Speaker 3: this in California and in terms of in the counties,
Speaker 3: it's probably a big thing. But how big is this
Speaker 3: story by nineteen seventy seven, the sixteen year old boy
Speaker 3: chasing after a perpetrator. You have a serial rapist on
Speaker 3: the loose in California here, How big a story is
Speaker 3: this by media? How interesting is this to the media.
Speaker 6: Not it is to Sacramento, but that's it. Not nationwide
Speaker 6: and not out to the Bay Area. It wasn't in
Speaker 6: the San Francisco paper, and we knew nothing about it.
Speaker 6: Like I say, today, if somebody shoots a dog back
Speaker 6: in Florida, we're going to hear about it on the
Speaker 6: news that night. Back then, things like this happened and
Speaker 6: it was not the big thing. It was not in
Speaker 6: the news and didn't cover.
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Speaker 6: And agencies didn't contact each other to tell him what
Speaker 6: was going on either, so it was very difficult.
Speaker 3: I thought it was odd too. East Area rapist sounds
Speaker 3: pretty pretty ordinary compared to all the nicknames that these
Speaker 3: killers get saddled with. I thought he might be disappointed
Speaker 3: by that. Almost well, I think.
Speaker 6: He probably called himself even the East Side rapist in
Speaker 6: one of the one of the conversations, so it could
Speaker 6: have been that. I don't think that he cared about
Speaker 6: the name. I think he cared about what was going on.
Speaker 6: And those are other things that happened. In one of
Speaker 6: the attacks, he told the woman this hadn't better get out.
Speaker 6: He told the husband, this is better get out, and
Speaker 6: I'm going to kill a cop and I'm going to
Speaker 6: do this, and I'm going to kill two people tomorrow night.
Speaker 6: And so none of it really made sense. It was
Speaker 6: just something that went on. Things that he did do
Speaker 6: during these attacks, and some of them he stuttered, some
Speaker 6: of them he seemed to cry and sobbed and and
Speaker 6: one of them said, when mummy sees this, she bothers her,
Speaker 6: makes her mad on TV. Whether this is something that
Speaker 6: he made up, we don't know.
Speaker 3: No way of telling, but it's from the witnesses that
Speaker 3: did have interaction with him, it seems that it fairly nonsense.
Speaker 3: Goal you say, he takes the ring off, throws it down,
Speaker 3: so I mean he's very.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And like I say, he only took part of
Speaker 6: the money, didn't always take money. And the first time
Speaker 6: that I noticed that anything was different was when he
Speaker 6: did move down to our area down in the Bay
Speaker 6: Area and Contra Costa. In the first attack down there,
Speaker 6: he took things that you would need to set up
Speaker 6: an apartment, things that he had never done before, pots
Speaker 6: and pans, that type thing that was not anything that
Speaker 6: he did before. So it looked like he started out
Speaker 6: in Sacramento. We believe he lived in Sacramento in the county.
Speaker 6: He moved to Contra Costa County. We believe he probably
Speaker 6: lived in Conquered while he was there, because Conquered is
Speaker 6: a central point. And then he moved to Galita area,
Speaker 6: Santa Barbara and in seventy nine. So anybody that has
Speaker 6: a friend or a relative or whatever that they know
Speaker 6: lived in Sacramento in seventy six, seventy seven, seventy eight,
Speaker 6: moved to Contra Costa County in seventy eight seventy nine,
Speaker 6: and then moved to southern California in seventy nine. Not
Speaker 6: too many people can do that. And with this person,
Speaker 6: he spent most of the time his attacks were at night.
Speaker 6: Did he work during the day. Obviously he had money
Speaker 6: of some kind. Different cars were sighted and never seemed
Speaker 6: to be the same one. He did mention a van
Speaker 6: in many of his attacks, but wasn't seen Volkswagen have
Speaker 6: been seen a Pontiac that type thing, So it was
Speaker 6: different cars most of the time. And so how he
Speaker 6: would come across that, I don't know. But what we
Speaker 6: have to understand is that in nineteen seventy six when
Speaker 6: he was hitting in Sacramento, there were over three hundred
Speaker 6: rapes reported in that area in nineteen seventy six and
Speaker 6: probably over two thousand unreported rapes in that area. So
Speaker 6: he wasn't the only one.
Speaker 4: And they.
Speaker 6: They did a study and they said that sixty six
Speaker 6: percent of rapes are probably not reported, and that was
Speaker 6: thirteen cities that they looked at.
Speaker 3: At that time.
Speaker 6: So in nineteen seventy six, forcible rapes that were reported
Speaker 6: in California, nine thousand, five hundred and some were reported,
Speaker 6: forty five percent were cleared. And Ear was not the
Speaker 6: most active one. He was just the most violent. And
Speaker 6: that was the one thing that you have to understand
Speaker 6: about Easteria Rapist, or Ear as we called him, He
Speaker 6: was from the very first violent. He wanted to kill.
Speaker 6: He wanted to kill, and he was going to kill.
Speaker 6: And the reason that I think that he finally did.
Speaker 6: And I'm jumping ahead of you here. The reason that
Speaker 6: I think that he finally did was the last attack
Speaker 6: that he made in Contra Costa County. The people got away.
Speaker 6: Then he moved to Galita where he attacked a couple
Speaker 6: down there and they got away. And I believe that
Speaker 6: in his mind was nobody is ever going to get
Speaker 6: away again. And the psychiatrists that I talked to at
Speaker 6: the Vacaville Medical Center that said he needed the justification,
Speaker 6: I think she was true, and that was a justification
Speaker 6: that he needed. And from then on it was the killing,
Speaker 6: and that's what he entered the house for, was to kill.
Speaker 6: And in the seventies we had the early morning rapist
Speaker 6: in Sacramento and he was never identified and he raped
Speaker 6: the thirty six women, but again they were on welfare, divorced,
Speaker 6: lower income. The Wooly rapist Sacramento called him that because
Speaker 6: of a wet wool odor and had him count a
Speaker 6: hundred backwards after he placed him in the closet and
Speaker 6: he was arrested within a month. Lapd had a pillowcase
Speaker 6: rapist fifty four women and he was finally sentenced to
Speaker 6: twenty five years, got outen ninety five. In nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 6: he was arrested in Indiana for rape. Berkeley had the
Speaker 6: Stinky Rapist at the same time he had the car
Speaker 6: Key rapist. He raped more than forty women and was caught.
Speaker 6: And San Diego PD had the East San Diego rapist.
Speaker 6: Dallas had the Friendly rapist, and they were all going
Speaker 6: on at the same time. We didn't know about them.
Speaker 6: We had never heard about them. I didn't know about
Speaker 6: them until later on when I was starting to write
Speaker 6: the book and started checking on these And what they
Speaker 6: say is that seventeen percent of women are victims of rape.
Speaker 6: Fifty percent of them are under seventeen years old. That's
Speaker 6: over seventeen million people. And so the rapists are out there.
Speaker 6: It's just that this one here was so violent that
Speaker 6: he came to the forefront.
Speaker 3: Now do you think with today's knowledge of these guys,
Speaker 3: Because I know that FBI profilers at a quanticle, we're
Speaker 3: doing stuff. Robert K. Wrestler and Douglas were doing stuff
Speaker 3: in the seventies with guys that had been arrested like
Speaker 3: Ac and Bundy and Dahmer and all these guys. So
Speaker 3: that's just the beginning of them interviewing those guys and
Speaker 3: then creating profiling. Was there any kind of victim type
Speaker 3: at all that he seemed to be interested in.
Speaker 6: The only thing that I can say on this is
Speaker 6: that he did not go for low income, did not
Speaker 6: go for prostitutes, did not go for that. He went
Speaker 6: for middle class, upper middle class people safe in their homes.
Speaker 6: He would go into an area and knew what that
Speaker 6: area was and knew what type of person was in
Speaker 6: that area, and that's what he was after. Other than that, nothing,
Speaker 6: And we have the FBI is trying to do a
Speaker 6: profile for us on this one now, but you say
Speaker 6: it'll take at least another six months before they can
Speaker 6: come up with anything. And again, it probably isn't going
Speaker 6: to lead us anywheres other than to say this is
Speaker 6: a type of person that you're looking for, and.
Speaker 3: Be interesting what their take is on the likely occupation,
Speaker 3: because he would have to be fairly specific, I mean,
Speaker 3: to be able to, like you say, it's unusual the
Speaker 3: way he had the means he had this. He could
Speaker 3: have a certain schedule and obviously had some money. And
Speaker 3: then Vigetti's moving around California, so that it seems to
Speaker 3: be a specific type of occupation, some kind of self employment.
Speaker 6: To a certain yes, it could be self employment. One
Speaker 6: thing that I tried to look at was possibly at
Speaker 6: that time he was in the military, and that would
Speaker 6: have been an opportunity. It's like one of the victims
Speaker 6: that he had, Francis Woods in the book, she was
Speaker 6: a reserved captain in the military. Her husband was a
Speaker 6: regular captain in the military, and their main base was
Speaker 6: in Fairfield, even though they lived in Sacramento. Could it
Speaker 6: have been We don't know. We do know that at times,
Speaker 6: most of the time he wore tennis shoes, but sometimes
Speaker 6: he wore boots that the victims said looked like military
Speaker 6: type boot. One time he had a baton and in
Speaker 6: one of the attacks. But that doesn't prove anything. It's
Speaker 6: just something to look at. And the problem that we
Speaker 6: had back then, and I'm not sure that it's changed today,
Speaker 6: is that agencies need to work together, and unfortunately they didn't,
Speaker 6: and that puts you behind. When Jim Bevans, the sergeant
Speaker 6: with Sacramento, heard about the double homicide down in Santa
Speaker 6: Barbara County and called down there and they said, no,
Speaker 6: we didn't have anything like that. Don't as you're talking about.
Speaker 6: I called, they said the same thing. And it was
Speaker 6: a couple of months later that Bevans found out that yes,
Speaker 6: they did have the double homicide, and just about the
Speaker 6: same time I found out that they had the attempted
Speaker 6: rape where the people got away. And then we got
Speaker 6: the reports, and the reports were just the same as
Speaker 6: our reports. The ski masks, the tie up, the terror
Speaker 6: on the ones that got away, the dishes that he
Speaker 6: would put on their back, that type thing, And that's
Speaker 6: one of the other things that he started doing. When
Speaker 6: a man was also in the house, he would put
Speaker 6: dishes on their back and say, if I hear these,
Speaker 6: I'll kill you. If I hear these, I'll kill her
Speaker 6: if I hear these. If there was a child in
Speaker 6: the house, if I hear these, I'll cut your child's
Speaker 6: ears off and bring them to you. And they all
Speaker 6: believed it. They knew that that was going to happen. Now,
Speaker 6: some of the ones I could talk to. I would
Speaker 6: go in and I would see and in my mind
Speaker 6: I'd say, Okay, these people are going to handle it.
Speaker 6: They'll be okay. Other people you go in and you say,
Speaker 6: this marriage is not going to last, and most of
Speaker 6: the time was because the husband felt in his mind,
Speaker 6: I should have taken care of my wife and I didn't.
Speaker 6: And I'd try to explain to them if you did,
Speaker 6: you'd both be dead. You did what you had to do,
Speaker 6: But for them to get that in their head would
Speaker 6: be almost impossible. And so many of them ended up
Speaker 6: and divorced. Unfortunately, one of them that you'll find in
Speaker 6: my book married, had children, very very pretty girl, and
Speaker 6: when I talked to her, I thought this rate didn't
Speaker 6: seem to bother her. She seemed to get excited from it.
Speaker 6: And two years later I was called by the state
Speaker 6: and Narcotics team and asked me if I would go
Speaker 6: to them on a search warrant, and I did and
Speaker 6: went in there and found pictures of her with her
Speaker 6: dover boyfriend. She left her husband and went the other way.
Speaker 6: And those are just things that you just don't understand
Speaker 6: how it could happen, Whether it was because of what
Speaker 6: happened or what, I don't.
Speaker 5: Know, but.
Speaker 3: Well, he certainly described the terror, but also the trauma.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a good point. I mean, why
Speaker 3: these people just it's unfathomable. It's this this terror that's
Speaker 3: and trauma that lives with these people forever. Tell us
Speaker 3: I wanted to know about you talk about this major
Speaker 3: point departure for this serial rapist ear when he has
Speaker 3: four escapees. Now, explain how he can go from this
Speaker 3: planning the very at least what what you consider the
Speaker 3: first one in seventy six. Is he devolving? Is he
Speaker 3: getting less organized, like very much like a serial killer.
Speaker 3: Is this period of there was organized and then there's disorganized?
Speaker 3: Is he making less sense? I know that he responded
Speaker 3: to the media there's all there's no there's no men
Speaker 3: at the at the crime scene. So then next next
Speaker 3: crime he has men involved. So tell us about this.
Speaker 3: Is it a devolution? Is it what's happening with him
Speaker 3: that he has four escapees? Uh?
Speaker 6: He's he became more brazen. I think he got excitement
Speaker 6: from what he was doing, and with a man in
Speaker 6: the house, it was just one more thing for him
Speaker 6: to uh to deal with and overcome and uh and
Speaker 6: be in charge of. And some of the ones, uh,
Speaker 6: the one that that got away in Contra Costa County,
Speaker 6: he and his wife had worked out an escape route
Speaker 6: in case something like this happened, and it did happen,
Speaker 6: and fortunately the husband woke up while the rapist was
Speaker 6: standing there pulling the mask over his face and didn't
Speaker 6: have the gun in his hand, and he jumped up
Speaker 6: out of bed and started screaming at him, and it
Speaker 6: kind of surprised the rapist obviously, and he kept screaming
Speaker 6: at him, and the wife at that time took the
Speaker 6: escape route and got away. This fellow was big enough
Speaker 6: where he could have picked up the stereo rapists and
Speaker 6: thrown him out the window, but he didn't. Once his
Speaker 6: wife got away, then he felt, Okay, she's safe. Now
Speaker 6: I'm going to be safe, and he ran also. And
Speaker 6: here walked out of the house and left things that
Speaker 6: happened to him, Like one of the attacks, there were
Speaker 6: kids playing outside. They were extremely noisy, and because of
Speaker 6: that it threw him off. And he did not sexually
Speaker 6: attack the lady, and only because of the racket that
Speaker 6: was going on outside. It bothered him. So he had
Speaker 6: to have that in his mind of what he was
Speaker 6: going to do and how he was going to do it.
Speaker 6: And he followed that. He got more sophisticated as he
Speaker 6: went along, but did not change his pattern at all.
Speaker 6: Knew he was always going to have a mask, knew
Speaker 6: he was always going to wear gloves and did not
Speaker 6: leave fingerprints, and did not let anybody see him. And
Speaker 6: the he raped a thirteen year twice. He raped two
Speaker 6: thirteen year olds, that's unbelievable, and one that was sixteen
Speaker 6: years old. He thought that she was somebody else. He
Speaker 6: thought she was a college student. He took her down
Speaker 6: to the field and was dealing with her down there,
Speaker 6: and finally she got through to him that no, I'm
Speaker 6: a high school person. It was not who he wanted.
Speaker 6: He left, he didn't raper.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So it's incredible.
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of strange, strange.
Speaker 3: Your book really does read like a Criminal Minds episode.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people that read True crime
Speaker 3: also watched these programs because there's this, you know, some
Speaker 3: some truth to this stuff. I mean always you know
Speaker 3: that some of the stuff it could be plots for
Speaker 3: some of these fictitious criminal you know, Criminal Minds and
Speaker 3: other programs like that. Now, tell us about the murders.
Speaker 3: What what's the first murder characterized by h and tell
Speaker 3: us tell us about the first murders.
Speaker 6: Well, in the in the murders, like I say, because
Speaker 6: I think because the two got away. From then on
Speaker 6: that was it. And in the Offerman Manning, Uh, it
Speaker 6: was a double homicide and he shot them, and I
Speaker 6: think in that case he learned that using a gun
Speaker 6: makes a noise, and from then on he didn't shoot.
Speaker 6: He bludgeoned to death. One other time he had to
Speaker 6: use a gun because I think the person got free
Speaker 6: and tried to attack him. But in Offerman in Manning,
Speaker 6: they were found shot to death in their condominium. And
Speaker 6: it was not too far from the first Glata attack
Speaker 6: as a matter of fact, and the victims were both
Speaker 6: bound and indications were that the male victim, mister Offerman,
Speaker 6: somehow got his bindings loose and he lunged at ear
Speaker 6: and ear shot him and then shot the female. And
Speaker 6: unlike all the other attacks where the woman was taken
Speaker 6: away from the husband, away from the mail to a
Speaker 6: different room, in this one, here they were both in
Speaker 6: the bedroom, so it indicated that he did not have
Speaker 6: time to do anything before he killed them. The husband
Speaker 6: got free and or the boyfriend got free and he
Speaker 6: had to shoot him, and that was when he started
Speaker 6: making a few changes. And after that, when he went
Speaker 6: into the house, he went in with one intent. That
Speaker 6: intent was to kill, but that intent was to beat
Speaker 6: him to death, and he would bludgeon them, hit them
Speaker 6: in the head and kill him that way. And then
Speaker 6: in one other one bindings gout loose, and it looked
Speaker 6: like greg Sanchez tried to attack him and he shot him,
Speaker 6: that didn't kill him, and then he bludgeed him to death,
Speaker 6: and then bludgeon the woman to death.
Speaker 1: So it was.
Speaker 6: He had that in his head, and I don't understand
Speaker 6: how it went that way. My feeling today, I've been
Speaker 6: asked many many times, do you think he's still alive.
Speaker 6: My feeling is that if he had moved back east,
Speaker 6: he could still be killing and they never would have
Speaker 6: put it together. If he killed in one city and
Speaker 6: then went to another city and then to another city,
Speaker 6: probably would not be put together. Because now one thing
Speaker 6: that he did learn at the end was to take
Speaker 6: the bindings when he left. Originally when the people were
Speaker 6: still living, of course they had to be bound, and
Speaker 6: he made sure that he was within easy distance of
Speaker 6: a freeway or whatever, so that he knew they couldn't
Speaker 6: get loose within five or ten minutes and he would
Speaker 6: be gone, so they obviously would be left tied. But
Speaker 6: once he started murdering after the first two. Then he
Speaker 6: started taking the bindings with him, so didn't even have
Speaker 6: those left. And for years I would wake up two
Speaker 6: or three o'clock in the morning wondering what did I
Speaker 6: do wrong, What did I miss? Why did I miss it?
Speaker 6: It just doesn't leave you. Things like this stay with
Speaker 6: you the rest of your life. And the reason I
Speaker 6: wrote the book was to get the investigation going again.
Speaker 6: And I went self publishing because it's faster that way,
Speaker 6: and I just wanted it out. It didn't do it
Speaker 6: to make money on it, obviously, and it was just
Speaker 6: something that I had to do. These people need closure,
Speaker 6: and it's not about me. It's not about the cops
Speaker 6: that work this. It's about the victims and the victims families,
Speaker 6: and this person has got to be caught at least
Speaker 6: identified so they can find closure. Can you imagine a
Speaker 6: thirteen year old happened to live the rest of her
Speaker 6: life knowing that she was raped by this person and
Speaker 6: not even know who he is or why she was
Speaker 6: attacked or anything like that. So very very very difficult,
Speaker 6: hard to live with. And the things that if there's
Speaker 6: anybody out there that says, I know somebody that lived
Speaker 6: in those areas, you know, then they're the ones that
Speaker 6: we need, and we need a description, we need a name,
Speaker 6: need information. We've been on TV. There's been the A
Speaker 6: and E cold case that put one out, a network
Speaker 6: true Hollywood investigates put one out, and there's going to
Speaker 6: be another one in probably in March. Dark Minds is
Speaker 6: going to put one out and hopefully something will come
Speaker 6: out of this. And now your radio program, I think
Speaker 6: is probably one of the best ways for something to
Speaker 6: come out. And I just really really appreciate you taking
Speaker 6: the time to contact me and get into this.
Speaker 3: Well, actually, you know, the credit has to go to
Speaker 3: one of the listeners of the program, So I think
Speaker 3: you're very right that there could be a possibility that
Speaker 3: this might certainly lead to something. Who knows, But someone
Speaker 3: told me about your book and your investigation. So then
Speaker 3: I booked and I said, wow, I knew nothing about this,
Speaker 3: and so we went from there. And so this person
Speaker 3: didn't want to be identified, but I did contact them
Speaker 3: recently and said, listen, thanks to you, Larry's going to
Speaker 3: be on the program talking about his excellent book here.
Speaker 3: So and she said, well, I'll be looking forward to that.
Speaker 6: So great. There is here that if you don't mind
Speaker 6: putting out anybody that does have any information, they can
Speaker 6: do serial killer Clues at OCSD dot org and that's
Speaker 6: Orange County Sheriff's Department and they have teams that will
Speaker 6: look into it and take it from there.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure if somebody were to listen to the
Speaker 3: program as well, they could always contact me. I could
Speaker 3: contact you, So there's ample ways they could do that.
Speaker 3: Now you talk about this has been thirty four years
Speaker 3: since you were first introduced to this Easter area rapist.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3: Had you've been retired since he'd be retired? Since when
Speaker 3: did you retire?
Speaker 6: I retired in nineteen ninety eight, and it wasn't until
Speaker 6: I retired and moved here to Oregon that had the opportunity.
Speaker 6: A criminalist called me and said, I understand you're on
Speaker 6: the task force. Can you give me some names? And
Speaker 6: I did, and then he said, yup, it's we showed DNA.
Speaker 6: And I said, okay, I know if you can get
Speaker 6: some criminalists in southern California to work with you, I
Speaker 6: know the murders down there are our man and I
Speaker 6: knew of five, and he called me back months later
Speaker 6: and said, no, they didn't have five. They had ten,
Speaker 6: and he said, we've already linked six of them with DNA,
Speaker 6: and that's when they flew me down there. And the
Speaker 6: thing is, I kept all the reports. They were being
Speaker 6: thrown out by my department, and I got there just
Speaker 6: at the right time as they were being thrown out,
Speaker 6: and I said, no, I'm keeping those and I've had
Speaker 6: them with me ever since. And that's the only reason
Speaker 6: that the reports were there for Orange County. And once
Speaker 6: they got involved, I thought, Okay, now we have a chance.
Speaker 6: And then when he Entertainment was putting the show on,
Speaker 6: I said, Okay, my book isn't printed yet, but i'll
Speaker 6: give you my manuscript. You can use it. And they
Speaker 6: used it for the show. And so it's really it's
Speaker 6: going on now. It is being investigated again, and that's
Speaker 6: why I wrote it, and I just pray each day
Speaker 6: that somebody's going to come forward.
Speaker 3: Yes, I really hope that that could come true. That
Speaker 3: would be somewhat happy ending, because they're never really, like
Speaker 3: you say, there's no real happy endings for victims or
Speaker 3: victims' families at all. But just for the peace of
Speaker 3: mind of the dedicated officers are on that task force,
Speaker 3: and people that were living with people on that task force.
Speaker 3: As you say, I think they've made dozens and dozens
Speaker 3: of television series or episodes and movies about the same
Speaker 3: sort of thing. The toll it takes on the officers
Speaker 3: as they take it very very personally, and yet at
Speaker 3: the same time it pales, and you've written about that
Speaker 3: in the book, that it pales in comparison to the
Speaker 3: pain that these people have to So you reminded yourself
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 6: Oh, yes, definitely. I finally realized it wasn't about me
Speaker 6: and it's about them, And I do stay in contact.
Speaker 6: One of the ladies that was attacked stays in contact
Speaker 6: with me, and she's doing very well. She's one of
Speaker 6: the ones that did survive and doing very well.
Speaker 3: So let's just hope that. Yeah, it's a good point. Now,
Speaker 3: have you a website that people could go to about
Speaker 3: any any more information or again that.
Speaker 1: They can go to.
Speaker 6: Ear On's a E t V community and they'll be
Speaker 6: able to connect E A R O N. S.
Speaker 3: Okay, great, And your book is through author House. It's
Speaker 3: self published, but through author House so and also through Amazon.
Speaker 3: Barnes and Noble. You can get it online. Is it
Speaker 3: an ebook form as of yet? Yes, it is kind
Speaker 3: Kindle edition as well. So it's in softcover.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's in softcover, hardcover and e book.
Speaker 3: Oh great, So people can get it any way they wish,
Speaker 3: So that's great.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you very much for coming on
Speaker 3: and talking about this book Sudden Terror. Uh, you really
Speaker 3: really captured again the the essence of the man that's
Speaker 3: still living with this case. Like you say, you've had nightmares,
Speaker 3: you've had dreams, you've had and you're still saying prayers
Speaker 3: that somebody out there will make this connection and at
Speaker 3: least get some kind of closure for people, and it
Speaker 3: would just be sort of a nice thing. That's for
Speaker 3: all the work and dedication and all the time that
Speaker 3: has been put in and all the victimization and again
Speaker 3: terror that this person has inflicted on all of California basically.
Speaker 3: So I want to thank you very much for coming
Speaker 3: on the program, Larry and.
Speaker 6: The bad luck with this and thank you Dan very much.
Speaker 3: Okay, well you have a great evening. Thank you very much, Larry.
Speaker 6: Have a good night YouTube yea, by now,