Speaker 1: Positive outcomes require capabilities metrics. These are the three buckets
Speaker 1: I'm filling up as I'm going through my discovery. I
Speaker 1: have to make sure those buckets are full.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that
Speaker 2: helps you and your teams sell more Faster. Will feature
Speaker 2: sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create
Speaker 2: a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.
Speaker 2: Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
Speaker 2: B to B sales effectiveness.
Speaker 1: Let's get started.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm
Speaker 3: Rachel Klatt Miller. Today we are going to talk about
Speaker 3: best practices for playing back what you've gathered from your customer.
Speaker 3: John Kaplan joins me today. Hi John, Rachel, how are
Speaker 3: you good? Good? Like I said, we're going to talk
Speaker 3: about the importance of validating what you heard from your
Speaker 3: customer and playing it back to them throughout the sales process. Right,
Speaker 3: this is than just like a one and done thing
Speaker 3: if you're a command of the message alone. This is
Speaker 3: what we call the mantra. You build it throughout sales
Speaker 3: process and then you're delivering it back to the customer
Speaker 3: throughout it. If you don't know command of the message.
Speaker 3: We're talking about really gathering and replaying those critical components
Speaker 3: of the deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's set a little context here. So for the
Speaker 1: past fifty or so plus years, researchers have asked buyers
Speaker 1: about their experiences with sellers and the top two challenges
Speaker 1: that come up when they ask them, what are the
Speaker 1: biggest challenges you have with sellers? The top two or
Speaker 1: the following number one they don't understand my business. Number
Speaker 1: two they don't listen. And we refer to this as
Speaker 1: the seller deficit disorder. So this skill of playing back
Speaker 1: what you heard is critical, and I want to try
Speaker 1: to simplify it.
Speaker 3: Today and then often just last when we talk about
Speaker 3: sending the pain and getting the right information. But let's
Speaker 3: talk about some of those best practices when you're playing
Speaker 3: back what you heard or articulating the mantra. It starts
Speaker 3: with great follow up on those initial calls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so after every conversation, I'm recapping what I heard
Speaker 1: in my recap at the end of the call, and
Speaker 1: my follow up emails and the beginning of my next call.
Speaker 1: And I like to think about discovery as like filling
Speaker 1: up three buckets of sand So I have three buckets
Speaker 1: and I'm going to fill them up, and the three
Speaker 1: buckets are labeled positive business outcomes, required capabilities or decision criteria,
Speaker 1: those things that are technically required in order to meet
Speaker 1: those positive business outcomes, and then how people are going
Speaker 1: to measure success or metrics. So positive business outcomes, require
Speaker 1: capabilities and metrics are the three buckets. And I'm filling
Speaker 1: up these buckets as I'm going through my discovery call
Speaker 1: in my conversation, and this allows me to gather additional
Speaker 1: information if there's any gaps that I want to make
Speaker 1: sure that we get aligned in the next step. So,
Speaker 1: for example, mister missus customer, what I heard you say is,
Speaker 1: these are the positive business outcomes that you're trying to achieve.
Speaker 1: And I go look into that bucket, and if I
Speaker 1: don't have any positive business outcomes, then what I do
Speaker 1: is I know that I'm not ready to talk to
Speaker 1: them about pivoting to a solution. So I asked some
Speaker 1: discovery questions. So these are the positive business outcomes that
Speaker 1: you talked about. You also said this was the technical
Speaker 1: required capabilities. Well, guess what if I look into that
Speaker 1: bucket and there's no technical required capabilities that are favorable
Speaker 1: for us with our differentiation. I'm not done with discovery.
Speaker 1: I can't pivot to selling them something. I don't fully
Speaker 1: understand them. I haven't fully listened to them. That's what
Speaker 1: that seller deficit disorder is talking about. Now, look in
Speaker 1: the bucket for metrics, and this is how you said
Speaker 1: you were going to measure success. So if I haven't
Speaker 1: filled up those buckets, I can't pivot to how we
Speaker 1: do this, how we do it differently, or how we
Speaker 1: do it better and where we've done it before. I
Speaker 1: can't pivot to my solution because I'm not ready. So again,
Speaker 1: this allows me to gather my additional information where there
Speaker 1: are gaps, and that's something I'm adding to for every call.
Speaker 1: Recap positivesiness, outcomes, require capabilities, metrics. These are the three
Speaker 1: buckets I'm filling up as I'm going through my discovery.
Speaker 1: I have to make sure those buckets are full. If
Speaker 1: they're not full and I pivot to talk about my solution,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be ready yet, So I'm going
Speaker 1: to have some gaps. And that's what makes people say
Speaker 1: you don't understand my business. Yeah, because we don't know
Speaker 1: the business outcomes you're trying to achieve and you haven't listened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I can't tell you what you told me, and
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what's critical based upon what you
Speaker 1: told me and how you're going to measure success. This
Speaker 1: is all part of that seller deficit disorder. So that's
Speaker 1: what you're recapping. What I heard you say has to
Speaker 1: be around those three pillars. Positibusiness outcomes require capabilities and metrics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you do it right. And if you follow
Speaker 3: those A key component you're talking about it can be
Speaker 3: that email or your follow up tools can be a
Speaker 3: great tool to get different perspectives from other stakeholders in
Speaker 3: the deal. How do you use them for that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. So just by sharing what you
Speaker 1: heard and asking for feedback, you're not saying that this
Speaker 1: is what I know or this is what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to convince them. I'm not trying to convince them of anything.
Speaker 1: It's just that you're telling them what you've heard, and
Speaker 1: it's a great starting point for a conversation. This is
Speaker 1: what I heard from your organization, This is what I
Speaker 1: heard from somebody else in your organization. Could you please
Speaker 1: give me your take on it? Okay, so what are
Speaker 1: you doing. You're proving that you're learning about their business,
Speaker 1: and you're proving that you listen by the very fact
Speaker 1: that you're saying, this is what I heard. So you're
Speaker 1: attacking the seller deficit disorder. And then you're allowing people
Speaker 1: based upon kind of a level playing field or a
Speaker 1: starting point that says, this is what I've heard. Could
Speaker 1: you please comment on this. It's a great place to
Speaker 1: start conversations as you move throughout an organization. Well tell
Speaker 1: me what because people are thinking it, what do you
Speaker 1: know about us? Tell me what you've heard? What have
Speaker 1: you been doing in this account? And it's a great place.
Speaker 1: This recap, this mantra is a great place to begin
Speaker 1: every conversation with a new stakeholder.
Speaker 3: Right and in the mantra, this is what we heard.
Speaker 3: As you talk to new stakeholders, as you gather more information,
Speaker 3: it really expands as you move through that sales process.
Speaker 3: It represents the multiple stakeholder perspectives, and it can be
Speaker 3: a tool to constantly validate and qualify your deal. So
Speaker 3: when we think about qualifications, one thing I wanted to
Speaker 3: bring up is how important those required capabilities or solution
Speaker 3: requirements are in this process and how you are articulating
Speaker 3: them in your recaps.
Speaker 1: I'd say critical, but it's like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: make that to sound like some cliche, but I'm telling
Speaker 1: you that if you can't discuss the required capabilities or
Speaker 1: the decision criteria, you have no chance at winning. And
Speaker 1: if you do win, you have no chance of understanding
Speaker 1: whether you've got a great deal or an average deal,
Speaker 1: or whether you even wanted the deal or not. So
Speaker 1: he or she who owns the required capabilities of the
Speaker 1: decision criteria actually owns the customer and owns the owns
Speaker 1: the opportunity. So I like to say the two biggest
Speaker 1: skills for elite sellers are always about attaching to the
Speaker 1: biggest business issue, and that's going to come from what
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier with positive business outcomes and discovery
Speaker 1: around that. And then influencing decision criteria with your company differentiation.
Speaker 1: That's your job. You need to influence the required capability,
Speaker 1: not just gather the required capability. You need to influence
Speaker 1: the required capabilities with your company differentiation. It's got to
Speaker 1: be good for the customer, and it's got to be
Speaker 1: in their own own language, and it also gives us
Speaker 1: a great baseline for prioritization. So if there's neutral or
Speaker 1: unfavorable criteria or require capabilities, that you've got the ability.
Speaker 1: This is a really important point. A lot of times
Speaker 1: I get notes back from people say, hey, I've got
Speaker 1: decision criteria here. You told me that we need to
Speaker 1: influence it with our differentiation, But there's actually some decision
Speaker 1: criteria here that's good for the customer and it's something
Speaker 1: that we don't do well. What do I do about that?
Speaker 1: And I think that's such a great question, because there
Speaker 1: are some times where you're going to have a situations
Speaker 1: where you build this for criteria and you build this
Speaker 1: require capabilities, and you find out you might not be
Speaker 1: the best one to compete on this. And it's the
Speaker 1: only reason why people hesitate to move on is because
Speaker 1: they don't have pipeline. And that's not going to be
Speaker 1: a good idea for you or the customer. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about what happens when you do get and it's
Speaker 1: going to happen. There's going to be decision criteria that's
Speaker 1: going to show up, or require capabilities that are going
Speaker 1: to show up, and they're less favorable for you and
Speaker 1: more favorable for a competitor. The first thing I do
Speaker 1: is I always ask the customer to describe that for me, Rachel,
Speaker 1: because what I know is is that elite sellers, when
Speaker 1: you're elite, you just know that you're different than others.
Speaker 1: And when you spot this, sometimes what happens is some
Speaker 1: non elite sellers they convince the customer or they say,
Speaker 1: you need to put this in the criteria to be
Speaker 1: able to compete against, so we can compete against this
Speaker 1: company or what have you. So a lot of times
Speaker 1: I just ask them to explain to me what that means,
Speaker 1: so they'll have something on there, like you know, let's
Speaker 1: say it's in the old days, we used to have
Speaker 1: this thing by directional associativity at PTC was kill or
Speaker 1: knockout criteria. Well, if I was a competitor, I'd say,
Speaker 1: mister missus, customer, what is your understanding of what that means?
Speaker 1: And they're either going to explain it like they understand it,
Speaker 1: or they're going to explain it like a competitor just
Speaker 1: told them to put it in there. And I know
Speaker 1: I might not be giving it the right words of
Speaker 1: the right justice, but you know what I mean, when
Speaker 1: you hear what I'm saying, Like you can tell when
Speaker 1: somebody talks about something and they understand it, or somebody
Speaker 1: talks about something and they've just heard it. And I
Speaker 1: used to love this because I used to say, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: so explain to me. Give me an example of how
Speaker 1: that's manifested itself in your environment. I start asking all
Speaker 1: these questions and they're feeling very uncomfortable, and they're like,
Speaker 1: and I just let them off the hook. I don't
Speaker 1: have to say, like, what I want to say is aha,
Speaker 1: I know that's required capability. You don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: And my competitor just put that in there. I mean,
Speaker 1: I want to say that, but I don't say that.
Speaker 1: I just say, well, let's prioritize these and I take
Speaker 1: one of our differentiators. Let's say one of our influenced criteria,
Speaker 1: and I say, is it more important than this? And
Speaker 1: if I've on my job and we've talked about how
Speaker 1: important it is and we have specific examples, nine times
Speaker 1: out of ten, what happens, Rachel, is this unexplained favorable
Speaker 1: decision criteria for the competitors, it winds up moving down
Speaker 1: the priority list. And that is the best advice that
Speaker 1: I can give you. So all the while while you're
Speaker 1: refining this criteria or influencing it, shaping it until it's
Speaker 1: good for the customer and good for you. And that
Speaker 1: is really what you do for a living. When you
Speaker 1: swing your feet over the end of the bed the
Speaker 1: side of the bed. In the morning, I should wake
Speaker 1: up and say, today I need to influence decision criteria
Speaker 1: with my differentiation critical on every opportunity, on every conversation.
Speaker 3: Are you're good? And make sure your customer understands your differentiation.
Speaker 1: That's why you got to use their language, Rachel. You
Speaker 1: can't write your own like x Y doublejzy wizaboo, and
Speaker 1: that shows up in the decision criteria and you know
Speaker 1: that that came from your competitor, and so just ask
Speaker 1: them questions like what does that mean for you, mister
Speaker 1: missus customer.
Speaker 3: That's one of the things I wanted to make sure
Speaker 3: we highlighted because you've mentioned it a couple of times.
Speaker 3: You use this tactic to make sure nothing's changed, as
Speaker 3: things always do in the deal, and your competitors are
Speaker 3: probably doing that too. They're like, hey, take a look
Speaker 3: at this. Are we all on the same page. But
Speaker 3: one way you can differentiate yourself and how you sell
Speaker 3: is make sure you are communicating in the client's words, like,
Speaker 3: how do they speak about it? How do they interpret
Speaker 3: your differentiation required capabilities outcomes? All of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's such a good point. It's never
Speaker 1: about us, It's always about the customer. That's what outside
Speaker 1: in mentality really means. You want them to see you
Speaker 1: as a partner in their business, so you should speak
Speaker 1: in their language. And one of the greatest compliments did
Speaker 1: we get, you know, from our customers at Force Management,
Speaker 1: is that they say that you sound like us. And really,
Speaker 1: all we've done is we've taken our principles and we've
Speaker 1: put it into their words, so by the time it
Speaker 1: gets to their organization, it looks like it came from
Speaker 1: their organization. And I love hearing that because I know
Speaker 1: that they see us as that we're invested in their success.
Speaker 1: And remember, you want your customers to feel like, remember
Speaker 1: what they said, you don't understand my business and you
Speaker 1: don't listen. Well, if I'm using your words, then I
Speaker 1: inherently am going to come off as sounding like I
Speaker 1: understand your business. If I'm using what we're talking about
Speaker 1: this recap. In this mantra, I am inherently going to
Speaker 1: be repeating back what they told me and what they said,
Speaker 1: so they're going to immediately feel like that I've listened.
Speaker 1: It's not that complicated. It's not easy, but it's not
Speaker 1: that complicated.
Speaker 3: Right, important any ones. I mean, John, you've gone through
Speaker 3: some great tips here for day, and I know there's
Speaker 3: a lot of great takeaways. Wrap us up with the
Speaker 3: bottom line for everyone listening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So for me, remember those buckets. There are
Speaker 1: three things I need to fill up in every conversation.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean in every call I'm going to fill those
Speaker 1: buckets up totally, but there are three buckets that I'm
Speaker 1: filling up in the beach and I got a positive
Speaker 1: business outcome. Bucket I got to require capabilities, and I
Speaker 1: interchange require capabilities and decision criteria. So I've talked about both,
Speaker 1: I mean require capabilities. In this instance, one of the
Speaker 1: buckets require capability slash met decision criteria, and then the
Speaker 1: third bucket is metrics. And we always want to use
Speaker 1: the customer's language for you to overcome what we were
Speaker 1: talking about as that seller deficit disorder. If you just
Speaker 1: look at those three buckets. Do I understand their business? Yeah?
Speaker 1: If I'm talking about positive business outcomes, Do I listen
Speaker 1: to them? Yeah? If I can repeat back to them
Speaker 1: what I heard about them, and I can, and then
Speaker 1: I can take it to the ultimate step is to
Speaker 1: influence that decision criteria with my differentiation. And that's a great,
Speaker 1: great winning success.
Speaker 3: There you go, All right, John Chaplin, thank.
Speaker 1: You, You're welcome.
Speaker 3: Go get them, Go get them, everybody, and thank you
Speaker 3: for listening to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast.
Speaker 4: At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into
Speaker 4: elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company
Speaker 4: alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the
Speaker 4: ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Speaker 4: Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.
Speaker 4: Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not
Speaker 2: miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite
Speaker 2: podcast player Until next time.