Speaker 1: I'm Ali.
Speaker 2: I came out after twenty years of marriage and I
Speaker 2: have three kids.
Speaker 3: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 3: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 2: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 2: and victories that come with it.
Speaker 3: When coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 3: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 2: This is the lesbian chronicles, well of the.
Speaker 1: Philosophy of chronicles. Why are you asking me live? And
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're gonna say.
Speaker 3: Okay, it has nothing to do with sexuality.
Speaker 1: So there's and then know that there's somebody sitting here.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I went to Trader Joe. This is not
Speaker 3: embarrassing at all. I'm just wondering if this has happened
Speaker 3: to you or do you go to Trader Joe's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, occasionally. So I don't love it, but I like
Speaker 1: it fine.
Speaker 3: I mean same, It's usually really busy that annoys me,
Speaker 3: but I like that it's like fairly inexpensive and like
Speaker 3: just different stuff than you'd find in like a normal
Speaker 3: grocery store. Okay, but what I've noticed is every time
Speaker 3: that I check out of the one here in Peachtree City,
Speaker 3: that they will be scanning my stuff in the cashier
Speaker 3: will be like, oh, what do you use this for?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, today it was miso paced and I'm like,
Speaker 3: to make miso soup and they're like, oh, that's really interesting,
Speaker 3: Like what else? And I'm like, wait a second, Like
Speaker 3: you guys are making making me feel like I'm smarter
Speaker 3: than you when I know I'm not. You work in
Speaker 3: the grocery store. But I'm wondering, like I heard recently
Speaker 3: that Trader Joe's like employees are kind of told to
Speaker 3: like create conversation with their customers. Yeah, And I'm like,
Speaker 3: is that part of it? And I've just been rolling
Speaker 3: through there. It's being like I really know a lot
Speaker 3: about ingredients, like.
Speaker 2: I always I know exactly what you mean when they
Speaker 2: make conversation, but it only happens there.
Speaker 1: It actually happens at Whole Foods too.
Speaker 3: Really. Yeah, But I'm like, do they not have any
Speaker 3: other question? Because I always get asked the same question.
Speaker 1: No, because they're doing it all day. They're so done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: So done.
Speaker 3: I've been rolling around here thinking, oh, man, like I'm
Speaker 3: really educated on cooking, but really.
Speaker 1: Do you ever look at other people's carts? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I do.
Speaker 3: Like, what are you buying? What do you look really healthy?
Speaker 1: I know that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: When I was growing up, my dad would always say
Speaker 2: to like just look at how people look and then
Speaker 2: if they look really good, like kind of like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean it's the same thing.
Speaker 3: I was looking through the frozen food stuff and like
Speaker 3: they're like microwave meals and I'm just picking them up
Speaker 3: and like looking at the calories and the fat content.
Speaker 3: And I did that to like a couple of packages
Speaker 3: in this woman next to me, and she's like, she goes,
Speaker 3: I just did the same thing. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: five hundred calories, six hundred calories for a frozen meal.
Speaker 3: Not worth it to me.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, you're getting into a little diet conversation with
Speaker 1: Is that a diet? I think?
Speaker 2: So I'm into the carb situation right now, Like that's
Speaker 2: what I'm watching, and so I'm constantly looking at things
Speaker 2: that I thought were okay and then they're like sixty carbs.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the weekend though, this coming weekend, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're coming into town.
Speaker 3: I am. Yeah, we've got a loaded weekend here actually.
Speaker 2: Especially you, although now that Tatum's coming in, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of like Tatum very last minute was like I'm coming.
Speaker 2: I just want to, you know, kind be lazy at home.
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of like, what am I not now doing?
Speaker 1: Oh boy, exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll be at mund Park Fest on Saturday, bartending
Speaker 3: or I shouldn't even say bartending. I'll be pouring beer.
Speaker 1: I'm going to come to that.
Speaker 3: Well, come see me. I can't see you. Are you
Speaker 3: going to be which, like, where is Poplar Street?
Speaker 1: Okay? Poplar Street? Okay, we'll come find you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll make sure to pour your beer really good.
Speaker 1: What hours are you there?
Speaker 3: One to four thirty?
Speaker 1: Okay, got it? Yep, all right, we'll expect to see me.
Speaker 3: So nice little volunteer opportunity. I don't think I get
Speaker 3: paid at all. I get a free beer at the
Speaker 3: end of the shift.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, maybe it'll be worth it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and I know.
Speaker 2: That I'll be there marketing lesbian chronicles with yeah full time.
Speaker 2: Anytime I'm in public, if I even if I'm not
Speaker 2: wearing it, I bring it and lay it down somewhere.
Speaker 3: And lay it down somewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do it at the coffee exactly. It's literally
Speaker 1: like any chance I get.
Speaker 3: Maybe I need to start doing that here in Peachtree
Speaker 3: City and I can start recruiting. Yes, that would become funny.
Speaker 2: I think that you need to. And also, let's also
Speaker 2: take this as an opportunity. We just posted a ad
Speaker 2: for merch. It's Lesbian Visibility week or month week week week,
Speaker 2: So people, this is the time. Get the hat, wear
Speaker 2: the hat, go out in public in the hat, like,
Speaker 2: this is it. This is the time to take that
Speaker 2: one step. And when people say, like, and I am
Speaker 2: this person who's like, I just lived my life as
Speaker 2: a lesbian and people can see me. But I do
Speaker 2: think there are critical moments that you could be out
Speaker 2: in public where a child sees you, where my kid's
Speaker 2: friends see me living my life, Like it's an opportunity
Speaker 2: that people can know you're gay and everything's fine and
Speaker 2: I'm living a healthy, great lifestyle.
Speaker 1: So it's just another example of goodness.
Speaker 3: I think I agree. And you know, our merch has
Speaker 3: a variety of subtleties to it. Yeah, you know, we
Speaker 3: have stuff that just says LC with a rainbow. We
Speaker 3: have hats that flat out say lesbian lesbian chronicles. So
Speaker 3: it's I totally get, you know, the aspect of being
Speaker 3: newly out and not feeling like confident enough or like
Speaker 3: brave enough. I guess really to put on something that
Speaker 3: says lesbian on it. I mean, I've talked about that
Speaker 3: on the podcast, of being in Peachtree City and accidentally
Speaker 3: rolling into Kroger wearing a shirt that says feed me
Speaker 3: to the lesbians and wanting to like leave.
Speaker 1: Unbelievable mistake. It's an unbelievable mistake.
Speaker 3: But like even today, I went to like Home Depot
Speaker 3: and TJ Max and I'm walking around there and I
Speaker 3: saw a few people do like double takes looking at
Speaker 3: me because I just don't look like the soccer mom
Speaker 3: that's mostly seen around here. I've gone on the flat
Speaker 3: built hat and tank top and baggy jeans or baggy
Speaker 3: pants and in high tops, and I know that, like
Speaker 3: they're kind of like, whoa wait a second, what is
Speaker 3: she doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are you lost more common down here?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I would say that, but I wouldn't hear like.
Speaker 2: I think if I'm at my kid's soccer game, I
Speaker 2: don't look like everybody else. I mean, I'm not too
Speaker 2: far off. I think the straight moms down here look.
Speaker 3: Gay, Yeah they do. And like, but here everybody wears Lululemon.
Speaker 1: You knowbody wears skinny jeans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, skinny jeans and.
Speaker 1: T shirts T shirt baggy T shirts.
Speaker 3: Were a few years behind. It's twenty twenty two down here.
Speaker 3: But that's just it. It's like walking around Atlanta. I
Speaker 3: don't feel like that. I do not get those like
Speaker 3: second glances, third glances here.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think it's because of our crew? We
Speaker 1: run with a big group of lesbians, so it's like
Speaker 1: you are right in the mix of like I guess,
Speaker 1: a group of gay women.
Speaker 2: Like think about when you're down here? Are you ever
Speaker 2: with straight people ever?
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, No, I'm trying. I think really, the only
Speaker 3: time I hang out with straight people is when I
Speaker 3: go to Marietta and hang out with my best friend
Speaker 3: and her husband.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so everybody is you fit? I mean down here,
Speaker 1: you look like everyone else exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Although remember those women in Seattle, if you guys are listening,
Speaker 2: please take credit for this. But you guys had like
Speaker 2: a thing you developed that was like a whole range
Speaker 2: of women, that's right, And they were like the total
Speaker 2: boy lesbian to the total diehard femme lesbian.
Speaker 1: And they probably had what would you say, like ten
Speaker 1: or twelve iterations.
Speaker 3: Of yeah, they had a chart. Didn't we take a
Speaker 3: picture of it?
Speaker 1: I wish we' did. I hope we did, because it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, I'm her. You know, we're running.
Speaker 2: I do a few little things in the yard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm not, like I'm not super masked. Somebody said
Speaker 2: to me once, They're like, you could dress the way
Speaker 2: you dress all day, but like your two your face as.
Speaker 1: A girl, like you are a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that, like I could see that
Speaker 2: about me, Like I do feel like there's something still
Speaker 2: kind of soft about me, even if I'm in kind
Speaker 2: of a more boy outfit.
Speaker 3: I also just saw a video of someone talking about
Speaker 3: the different ways to wear a hat, and like, oh,
Speaker 3: how that says how gay you are? Because if you're
Speaker 3: wearing like kind of like a dad cap, like what
Speaker 3: you're wearing, and like you have like those brands of
Speaker 3: hair down, like god, that's a little bit more straight.
Speaker 3: Or if your hair is like through the back of
Speaker 3: the hole on the hat, your ponytails through it, you're
Speaker 3: a little bit more fem.
Speaker 1: I got it. Okay, it's kind.
Speaker 3: Of interesting to an interesting take on the variations of it,
Speaker 3: because that's just it. It's like I wouldn't have worn
Speaker 3: this hat, this flat bill when I was straight, but
Speaker 3: I wore hats all the time.
Speaker 1: Like what have like I did?
Speaker 2: But maybe that's living down here. Yeah, but do you
Speaker 2: think if like mission for me was I really choose
Speaker 2: to be somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1: I want to be where people aren't sure and.
Speaker 2: I'm worried I'm passing over into their sure territory.
Speaker 3: You are a one hundred yeah, because that's just it.
Speaker 3: When I was like going and looking at pictures of
Speaker 3: us from like twenty nineteen, I was like, who who
Speaker 3: were both both of us? I'm like, we look totally
Speaker 3: totally different.
Speaker 1: Well, if I crossed over into like boy girl territory?
Speaker 3: Yeah what yes?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Okay, so I was trying to like be kind of
Speaker 2: in the middle when they're not so sure.
Speaker 3: I think you've crossed over.
Speaker 1: But part of it is my haircut and I had
Speaker 1: to cut my hair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that is part of it. In these pictures,
Speaker 3: your hair is longer, yeah, I hear is the same,
Speaker 3: and I feel like I've shifted.
Speaker 1: I feel like you've shifted too.
Speaker 3: I mean the topic being Lesbian Visibility Week. It's like,
Speaker 3: at that time, I felt like I was looking like
Speaker 3: really gay me too, you know, because it was very
Speaker 3: different from how I looked when I was straight. And
Speaker 3: it's really weird to think back on like how much
Speaker 3: effort that straight look took me to be like steering
Speaker 3: away from the clothes that I really wanted to buy
Speaker 3: and being like, Okay, I like this shirt and I
Speaker 3: should own it, and like bright colors, you know, like
Speaker 3: buy stuff that's pink, and you know, now most of
Speaker 3: my closet is black.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mine's black and white.
Speaker 3: I don't think I own a single pink shirt anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't either, So yeah, and.
Speaker 3: It is interesting too, you know, talking about being like visible.
Speaker 3: I see how it like, I feel more comfortable with
Speaker 3: myself being seen that way. I don't care that I'm
Speaker 3: getting double takes, and like you're saying, it's like there's
Speaker 3: there are kids that are gonna see how I look
Speaker 3: down here and be like, oh, like a lesbian. You know.
Speaker 3: One of my kid's friends saw me a few weeks ago,
Speaker 3: and I swear she was looking at me. Like kind
Speaker 3: of confused, but also kind of like enthralled. And I
Speaker 3: don't mean that this sounds like I'm like bragging about it,
Speaker 3: and it's not that way. It was just like I
Speaker 3: felt like she saw me. You know, she already knew,
Speaker 3: like I got your number. Yeah, she already knew that
Speaker 3: Kaylen has a gay mom. But then she's like looking
Speaker 3: at me and being like, oh okay, because like a
Speaker 3: lot of the kids in Kaylen's class will be like,
Speaker 3: I've never known a lesbian in real life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And do.
Speaker 2: You ever think about that? At are the party I
Speaker 2: had this past weekend? It was lots of families, lots
Speaker 2: of kids there are straight and they're gay women, and
Speaker 2: we were all kind of just mixed into the mix. Yeah,
Speaker 2: did you I didn't feel like in my neighborhood. And
Speaker 2: would you say that party was probably three fourths gay
Speaker 2: or half and half straight gay?
Speaker 3: I want to say it was half and half.
Speaker 2: Okay, So there was probably what would you say, fifty
Speaker 2: to one hundred people?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was really cool. Though I was thinking
Speaker 3: about this later, was how many of us were there
Speaker 3: with our kids? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like, didn't you feel like we were just sprinkled in
Speaker 1: the mix.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was like, you know, there was other
Speaker 3: other people there that you know, we don't hang out
Speaker 3: with on a regular basis, but they were there with
Speaker 3: their kids, and you know, they're not late in life.
Speaker 3: They they had a child with their partner or their
Speaker 3: former partner. And it's really cool to me to see that,
Speaker 3: you know, this thing that you know, I feel like,
Speaker 3: wasn't that commonplace or common knowledge twenty five thirty years ago?
Speaker 1: It wasn't that common when we didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, like not to pat us on the back,
Speaker 2: but do you remember us searching high and low for anyone.
Speaker 3: Like when we're coming out, yes, oh.
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, think how much a shit. I couldn't drink
Speaker 1: shit then I couldn't find shit online. Like now it's
Speaker 1: it's all over the place, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2: It is absolutely changed drastically in the last eight years.
Speaker 1: You and I were alone.
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree because I I remember being like, what
Speaker 3: is like the secret code that I have to to like,
Speaker 3: what is the phrase for this? Even you know, I
Speaker 3: remember learning about the phrase late in life lesbian and
Speaker 3: being like, okay, like maybe I need to search that more.
Speaker 3: But even that, it's like handful of Reddit threads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, if you do it now, there's a thousand
Speaker 2: people on Instagram, it's everywhere.
Speaker 1: We've got a million resources, a million resources.
Speaker 3: And but also too, I feel like we were like
Speaker 3: right on the cusp. I think of people finally like
Speaker 3: being okay with it, admitting to be being late in life. True,
Speaker 3: because there was a lot of people that I encountered
Speaker 3: that were like, yeah, I actually am late in life
Speaker 3: that I don't talk about it because the people in
Speaker 3: this community, if they find out that you're married to
Speaker 3: a man, they're gonna, you know, not take you as seriously,
Speaker 3: or they're gonna say that you're bisexual and all those things.
Speaker 3: Like So it was kind of like, yeah, you can
Speaker 3: be late in life, but don't come roared in the
Speaker 3: room declaring that you've got an ext husband.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you're saying that, because I just had
Speaker 2: a conversation yesterday with a friend who said that she
Speaker 2: when she'd been gay forever, but she started to fall
Speaker 2: for a married woman who the married woman was going
Speaker 2: to leave her marriage and be with her, and she
Speaker 2: said her gay community friends all gave her such fucking hell.
Speaker 1: About like you're gonna blow up, you know, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? She's not gay? Like, why are you dating her? Like?
Speaker 2: Stop wasting time with this woman? And she's like, I
Speaker 2: remember it was like hard, like listening to my friends
Speaker 2: basically not want no part of this.
Speaker 1: And who knows what that woman?
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe she is straight, maybe she was just
Speaker 2: having an experience, but maybe not.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think there is a stigma to that.
Speaker 2: I can imagine right now though, now that we're this
Speaker 2: far on the other side, imagine right now, I met
Speaker 2: someone who was married to a man, and I started
Speaker 2: dating her and I'm waiting for her to come out.
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me right now, what would
Speaker 2: your advice be to me? You would say, leave that
Speaker 2: shit alone.
Speaker 3: I would say leave it alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say leave it alone.
Speaker 3: Until she undoes some stuff.
Speaker 1: I totally agree.
Speaker 3: And that's not from the standpoint of thinking that someone's
Speaker 3: not gay. No, that's from the standpoint of knowing how
Speaker 3: messy it can get and how difficult, and also like
Speaker 3: you don't need to be there on the sidelines in
Speaker 3: the meantime.
Speaker 1: Waiting around, waiting. Yeah, it's too hard.
Speaker 3: It's hard on both parties. It's hard. You know, we've
Speaker 3: talked about the standpoint from like our catalysts and having
Speaker 3: to kind of like sit there through the separation and
Speaker 3: kind of you know the unknowns like yeah, sure you
Speaker 3: said you're doing this, but are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do have his and lows. That's the reality.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's very few people that meet a woman.
Speaker 2: And then I was gay my whole life. I met
Speaker 2: the catalyst. It was so compelling, but even me was like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck am I doing? I need to get
Speaker 2: back in my lane. I've got three babies to take
Speaker 2: care of. I love my husband, We've built life together.
Speaker 1: That was weird. I don't know what I'm doing here.
Speaker 1: I am again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I would like I couldn't stay away.
Speaker 2: It was like you couldn't put it down.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm yeah. And that's I mean. God, I can't
Speaker 3: remember if I've shared this story or not before, but
Speaker 3: this was like a few years before any of this
Speaker 3: came up for me about my sexuality. And I was
Speaker 3: on a girl's trip and there was this guy at
Speaker 3: a bar who would like not leave me alone, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm married, like go away, not having
Speaker 3: it moving, And I kept thinking to myself, like, for one,
Speaker 3: who does this guy think he is, you know, like,
Speaker 3: I'm married and I'm not about to up end my
Speaker 3: life for you random man at the bar. But I
Speaker 3: remember thinking, I'm like, I'm never gonna do that, Like
Speaker 3: I've built something so big with him that I'm not
Speaker 3: leaving no way there, there's no way, Like I've invested
Speaker 3: in this relationship, and we have two kids. I could
Speaker 3: not do that to them. So it is really really
Speaker 3: wild to me to then a few years later have
Speaker 3: been like, but women and that I gave me never
Speaker 3: thought about that variable. And you know, throughout that whole
Speaker 3: process of talking finally talking to him about how I felt,
Speaker 3: and then separating and dating a woman and making all
Speaker 3: these things, I kept thinking, you're going to call your
Speaker 3: own bluff. You got to stop.
Speaker 1: It is been at point any minute now.
Speaker 3: And then it was like all these things kept happening
Speaker 3: and I couldn't call my own bluff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true. It's so true.
Speaker 2: And it kind of leads me to talk about the
Speaker 2: thing you and I discussed earlier, which is with men.
Speaker 2: It's like, when I think about over my nineteen twenty
Speaker 2: year marriage, I think of all the friends that we had,
Speaker 2: the couple friends, the husband's not one time was there
Speaker 2: even a slight flirtation with one of my friend's husbands.
Speaker 1: There was no even.
Speaker 2: Avenue to get there, no texting, no sitting at dinner
Speaker 2: and kind of being silly with him while they're together,
Speaker 2: Like it never ever, ever, ever happened. And not just
Speaker 2: because I'm gay, but also because I was so first
Speaker 2: of all committed to my husband, but second of all,
Speaker 2: there's a natural buffer there like with men that it's
Speaker 2: like you're not crossing that line.
Speaker 1: I have an electrician at my house today.
Speaker 2: And he was like, I'm going to give you my number,
Speaker 2: but he's like, I'm giving you my number so that
Speaker 2: you can call me to tell me what ends up
Speaker 2: happening with the chandelier, like text me and let me know.
Speaker 2: So it's like even he felt the restraint of like
Speaker 2: this is not appropriate.
Speaker 1: I don't even like a thing.
Speaker 3: And it's like he's a woman business he's.
Speaker 1: A business guy, an electrician. I look gay as fuck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's like he felt.
Speaker 2: It necessary to like make that clear, and I I
Speaker 2: knew exactly what he.
Speaker 1: Meant, but like, think about with women when you're out,
Speaker 1: like you're the four of us.
Speaker 2: Are having dinner think how often things go into like
Speaker 2: I'm talking to my friend's partner and it's we're laughing,
Speaker 2: we're having a great time, We're like telling inside jokes.
Speaker 2: My partner's not even paying attention, or like, there's so
Speaker 2: many more avenues to be duplicitous with women because you're
Speaker 2: just led to it. I mean it's like you're there's nothing,
Speaker 2: there's no buffer there saying wait, this is just to
Speaker 2: check in with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of like blurred lines.
Speaker 2: There's blurred lines of like and I think you don't
Speaker 2: realize it's turning into something until it's I mean I've
Speaker 2: had that happened with me where people up said to me, like.
Speaker 1: I felt something for you and I'm in a relationship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I think I don't know I personally,
Speaker 3: when I'm friends with a couple, I prefer to be
Speaker 3: on a group text with both of them the same
Speaker 3: Like that makes me feel more comfortable. I would think
Speaker 3: it makes them feel more comfortable and secure. So that's
Speaker 3: that's the avenue I try to take with those situations
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: But think about too, like the after hours, Like I
Speaker 2: remember one time a woman texted you who is married
Speaker 2: late and you and I both have the feeling of.
Speaker 3: Like, why are these coming in late at night?
Speaker 2: You'd come in at ten thirty or eleven, like a
Speaker 2: man would never One of my ex husband's friends wouldn't
Speaker 2: be texting me at ten thirty to tell me something funny.
Speaker 1: He saw.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's just it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it never happened.
Speaker 3: I would have never in a million years happened it
Speaker 3: straight scenarios, no way. So it is weird, but I
Speaker 3: think it's it also just kind of speaks to your
Speaker 3: integrity though too, you know, like don't cross those lines.
Speaker 3: And even if you feel I want to.
Speaker 1: Tell your partner something funny, I thought of it.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think that's just it. As long
Speaker 3: as you know you're you, I think it's a responsibility
Speaker 3: for the couple to be like, you know, having those conversations.
Speaker 1: Alie just texted me, it's eleven o'clock.
Speaker 3: It's eleven.
Speaker 2: But I think it's like those little things that are
Speaker 2: so easily excused with women, it would never happen with men.
Speaker 2: And there's a thousand of those things going walking going
Speaker 2: you know, maybe for like I just like there's they're everywhere.
Speaker 1: It happens all the time.
Speaker 3: In the same vein though. It's like, if you do
Speaker 3: want to get to know a friend better and ask
Speaker 3: them to go grab coffee or something like that, it's like,
Speaker 3: does that hit another person? Think that automatically?
Speaker 2: I would think it automatically if you ask me to
Speaker 2: coffee too.
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to say this because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: catch such hell.
Speaker 2: But if we're not already friends, and you're a lesbian
Speaker 2: who's like in my wheelhouse, and you say, Allie, I
Speaker 2: want to get to know you about her, let's meet
Speaker 2: for coffee, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking
Speaker 2: she's hoping something develops.
Speaker 1: At this coffee.
Speaker 3: No, no, see, but I don't need any new friends.
Speaker 3: But like, I don't know. I don't know that I
Speaker 3: don't need new friends, but I like to expand my network,
Speaker 3: and sometimes it takes investing a little bit of time
Speaker 3: into going to grab coffee or something. Yeah, but I
Speaker 3: don't I'm just because I'm asking someone to get coffee
Speaker 3: or go grab a drink.
Speaker 1: Coffee, let's go grab a drink feels like you're looking
Speaker 1: for a little That does to me. But I have
Speaker 1: a very low threshold for cheating.
Speaker 3: I mean, gosh, I'm like, I've done this a lot
Speaker 3: over the years. It's been a while just because I've
Speaker 3: been so busy lately, but I've I used to do
Speaker 3: that a lot.
Speaker 2: And I like, let's say you had a partner that
Speaker 2: lives here in Atlanta. Okay, you had a partner that
Speaker 2: lives here in Atlanta and she's a on a Saturday night,
Speaker 2: would you go have drinks with.
Speaker 1: A new lesbian friend on a Saturday night?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Sitting at home?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. What's the difference then, because I'm why wouldn't
Speaker 3: you Why, Well, if my partner is here.
Speaker 1: And not, yeah, then she just come with me.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like okay, so it wouldn't be like you're
Speaker 2: having this one off. Then that's a totally different scenario.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because I think that's the other thing too, is
Speaker 3: like sometimes you meet someone as a couple, you know,
Speaker 3: and so in my eyes, it's like you both are
Speaker 3: at the same start line with that friendship. So like
Speaker 3: it's it's your friend together, you know, if you meet
Speaker 3: within the relationship, right, It's it's like, you know, when
Speaker 3: you're getting a divorce and you're going through your assets,
Speaker 3: you know, if you if you brought the friend into
Speaker 3: the marriage. You get to keep it when you leave
Speaker 3: the marriage.
Speaker 1: Okay, but we're.
Speaker 2: We're not talking about we're talking about new friends. You
Speaker 2: met new friend, Yeah, you met a lesbian CNN.
Speaker 3: I would try to loop in my partner if I
Speaker 3: had a partner.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, what if your partner isn't here?
Speaker 2: Would you still go have drinks with the new lesbian
Speaker 2: friend from CNN if you're in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Like if my ex husband.
Speaker 2: Told me he was meeting a woman that he met
Speaker 2: at work, I'm losing my fucking mind.
Speaker 3: I kind of did that before when I met up
Speaker 3: with Amy, our friend Amy lives here and wanted to
Speaker 3: you know, was newly out and kind of needed some advice,
Speaker 3: and I was in a relationship, and I told the
Speaker 3: person that I was with that that's what I was
Speaker 3: going to do. I think, in my eyes, it's like
Speaker 3: so far from my brain that anything like that is
Speaker 3: even like on the table. And maybe that's my fault.
Speaker 3: Maybe I need to think more about how my partner
Speaker 3: would feel in that instance. But it's so out of
Speaker 3: my wheelhouse that I'm crossing any any line whatsoever.
Speaker 2: I guess if they're meeting you because they think you're
Speaker 2: like an expert on coming out later. Yea, you just
Speaker 2: did it. That's kind of one thing. But like, think
Speaker 2: about if you're a husband. Okay, this is the point
Speaker 2: I'm making.
Speaker 1: You're married to Tom, and Tom says.
Speaker 2: To you, Hey, on flight, and I met this really
Speaker 2: cool flight attendant.
Speaker 1: She's as out we're gonna meet.
Speaker 2: Do you care, Like, I kind of just want to
Speaker 2: get to know her better because she's really cool and
Speaker 2: we have flying in common.
Speaker 1: We have flying in common. So do you care if
Speaker 1: I meet her for coffee or drinks? You don't care?
Speaker 3: I'd be like not without me there?
Speaker 1: Well, what's the difference.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, like, then what we're talking about, that's
Speaker 2: just just I mean, you're right for a woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no difference. But why that's the point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, that's cheap micro cheating, micro cheating because
Speaker 3: I would be so uncomfortable. But that kind of scenario
Speaker 3: actually does happen sometimes where yeah, and then.
Speaker 1: They end up sleeping around.
Speaker 2: You told me that it's like a really high level
Speaker 2: of infidelity.
Speaker 3: There is within the AVA community. But like that's just it.
Speaker 3: Sometimes like they'll all be like a part of a
Speaker 3: crew and be like, let's go where we're gonna go
Speaker 3: grab drinks downstairs, So meet down there at six point
Speaker 3: thirty and then next thing you know, it's only two
Speaker 3: of them that come down, and the rest of the
Speaker 3: crew has been like, I'm actually too tired. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna go to bed.
Speaker 2: I guess I just think that, like it's a double
Speaker 2: standard in our community because we're all women, so it
Speaker 2: just feels harmless. But the truth is, if you replace
Speaker 2: woman with man, it's not harmless anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true because like now I'm thinking about
Speaker 3: that scenario that I just gave of, like, well, I'm
Speaker 3: giving advice on coming out or you know, how to
Speaker 3: move forward, And yeah, that would feel weird if it
Speaker 3: was like I went to go if I was straight
Speaker 3: and I went to go meet with another with a man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, and I think it's usually like it is harmless,
Speaker 2: And I think maybe this is how do you how
Speaker 2: do you bulletproof your relationship because it's like somebody said
Speaker 2: to me once that there's always going to be somebody
Speaker 2: more interesting than me, Like there's always going to be
Speaker 2: somebody prettier than me.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be It's like you can choose to.
Speaker 2: Marry someone and your whole life, you're still going to
Speaker 2: be surrounded by people that you know, maybe get your
Speaker 2: attention or compelling for you in some way. This is normal,
Speaker 2: And it's like, how do you then still say, though,
Speaker 2: that I love this person and I'm not getting squirrel
Speaker 2: like with every like new shiny thing that walks across
Speaker 2: the path.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't. Like I hope that,
Speaker 3: you know, with a relationship, if I choose to get
Speaker 3: married or whatever, that I'm choosing that person forever. And
Speaker 3: I know that, and like, I'm sure I might meet
Speaker 3: other compelling people, but I'm also not going to let it,
Speaker 3: let it get that deep, because I think that's the
Speaker 3: other part of it is for me personally, I'm only
Speaker 3: going to find someone compelling if I truly know them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's one thing to say that someone's attractive. It's a
Speaker 3: whole other thing to know them on like an emotional
Speaker 3: deep level and like who they are as a human
Speaker 3: at their core, And that's the person that you're falling
Speaker 3: in love with, you know, And that doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 2: And I think the other way people end up vulnerable
Speaker 2: is because your relationship is going to have highs and lows.
Speaker 2: So it's like if you're with somebody five seven years,
Speaker 2: there are moments, snapshots, weeks, months, maybe a year where
Speaker 2: things don't feel amazing. And so now you're making that
Speaker 2: new friend you want to make who you think you know,
Speaker 2: you have stuff in common, and you're going to go
Speaker 2: have coffee with and before you know it, you're like,
Speaker 2: why am I in this relationship? And then it's just
Speaker 2: a slippery slope of this is easier, this is better
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: I'm not happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, life is too short all the things, and it's
Speaker 2: just like I don't know how you I mean you
Speaker 2: can't obviously we're all going to have friends.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you safeguard your relationship.
Speaker 3: And I mean, you're right, it's like over time you
Speaker 3: are going to have like bumps in the road, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: people are gonna encounter hard times. They're gonna have times
Speaker 3: where they're anxious. They're gonna have times for they're avoidant
Speaker 3: and they don't want to talk at all, you know,
Speaker 3: and that could go on for who knows how long? Right, Like,
Speaker 3: do you write it out or do you look for
Speaker 3: that other compelling person and move on, right?
Speaker 2: And I think, like I think about my father, who
Speaker 2: has said he my mom had an alcohol problem. The
Speaker 2: vast majority of people I know today would have left.
Speaker 2: In fact, I don't have one friend that would have
Speaker 2: stayed in that marriage. I can't think of one. They
Speaker 2: would have said, this is too much, too hard. My
Speaker 2: dad stayed, and my dad will tell you it is
Speaker 2: the single best decision he ever made. The first one
Speaker 2: was marrying my mom, the second one was staying with
Speaker 2: my mom, and the third one was probably having us.
Speaker 2: Of course, Like so, I think about him, and I
Speaker 2: think about how he would say, you bail and then
Speaker 2: you just start over and you got somebody with a
Speaker 2: new problem. I loved her, I picked her, and I
Speaker 2: stayed through the thing that now we wouldn't stay. We
Speaker 2: would be like, this person's a disaster, I'm out of here.
Speaker 3: Well, And I think you know that that those kind
Speaker 3: of scenarios are kind of subjective, because sometimes it could
Speaker 3: be something where someone's you know, not on the path
Speaker 3: to recovery, or it's becoming abusive or something like that.
Speaker 3: You know, so you do have to bail or in
Speaker 3: our situations. We did have to bail on the marriage
Speaker 3: because it fundamentally was not working anymore. So, but I
Speaker 3: do think there is something to be said about, you know,
Speaker 3: sticking through with when things get hard and ignoring those
Speaker 3: like the voices that enter the room and the new
Speaker 3: people that come into your life and being like, you
Speaker 3: know what, those people don't matter that we're in this
Speaker 3: and we're sticking to that, and really being transparent when
Speaker 3: those like one on one situations are coming around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Also I have this friend of both
Speaker 1: of ours who she would ride bikes.
Speaker 2: With this other friend of ours, Like they rode bikes together,
Speaker 2: and she said it became a thing where like the
Speaker 2: person she was riding bikes with would make comments about
Speaker 2: her partner and like little things like little just kind
Speaker 2: of digs, and.
Speaker 1: She's like, I started to feel like I don't even
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about my partner because you
Speaker 1: already sort of say.
Speaker 2: Things that are unkind or maybe like just I don't know,
Speaker 2: like little tiny micro aggressions that I think that's another
Speaker 2: thing is like sometimes you're in a relationship and maybe
Speaker 2: the outside world has opinions about this person who you love,
Speaker 2: and I think it's so easy for people on the
Speaker 2: outside to look in and be like, oh, why.
Speaker 1: Is she with her? She sucks or whatever the thing is.
Speaker 1: And if you're not in it with that person, you
Speaker 1: really don't get you're not in it. You don't really know.
Speaker 2: You're seeing a snapshot maybe an hour a month. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I just sometimes often think too, in this community,
Speaker 2: everybody has an opinion about everybody's relationship.
Speaker 1: And it's just like it's so exhausting. It's like, dude,
Speaker 1: stay in your lane. You have no idea what you're talking.
Speaker 3: About, right, stay exactly.
Speaker 1: You have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Your take on being around a couple for you know,
Speaker 3: an hour, It doesn't mean that you know everything exactly.
Speaker 3: I think the other thing too is if you are
Speaker 3: in a relationship, to consider, you know, how do you
Speaker 3: talk about your partner when they're.
Speaker 1: Not in the room.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you are taking the opportunity to just
Speaker 3: rip them to pieces when they're not around, it's a
Speaker 3: massive it's a huge betrayal. And it also needs to
Speaker 3: be something that you reflect on on your own and
Speaker 3: think about whether or not you're should be in that relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, so true yeah.
Speaker 2: And it really makes you look stupid because that's the
Speaker 2: person you picked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just if that's how you feel.
Speaker 3: Move on, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: This is probably a good place to wrap I think.
Speaker 2: So all right, well it's about the time people hear this.
Speaker 2: It's going to be too late. But the patio takeover
Speaker 2: is going to be the last Saturday of the month
Speaker 2: and it's an Urban Pie in Kirkwood Village. It starts
Speaker 2: at seven pm. There's also going to be I don't
Speaker 2: know if you know this, but a crew of like
Speaker 2: women sports fans that are going to also be there
Speaker 2: at the same time. So it's going to be a
Speaker 2: big turnout Urban Pie last Saturday.
Speaker 1: Of the month.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you guys want to learn more about
Speaker 3: Urban Pie, their episode of Bar Rescue is out now
Speaker 3: that I actually was able to watch a bunch of
Speaker 3: clips on about from the show on TikTok, so it's
Speaker 3: really cool and you get to see the owner, Lisa
Speaker 3: and just how passionate she is about running that business.
Speaker 3: And it's a great spot in Atlanta if anyone's ever
Speaker 3: visiting Urban Pie and Kirkwood just a good place to
Speaker 3: chill out and eat some pizza. And meet some gay women.
Speaker 1: Definitely gay women, and get your merch. Go to our.
Speaker 2: Website www dot Lesbian Chronicles podcast dot com order a
Speaker 2: hat and if you order a hat and take a
Speaker 2: picture of yourself and tag tag us, we will post it.
Speaker 1: We would love to.
Speaker 2: See everybody representing in Lesbian Visibility Week.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 3: All right byebie. I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
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