WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of

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<v Speaker 1>Second Take Cinema, coming at you from the Glorious Simplor

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<v Speaker 1>Film's headquarters in sunny Southend on Sea. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie Evans, joined as always by Rory Jocelyn. Hello everybody,

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<v Speaker 1>and today we are going back to the early days

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<v Speaker 1>of the MCU as we give a second take to

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight The Incredible Hulk. The Incredible Hulk

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<v Speaker 1>is a two thousand and eight superhero movie based on

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<v Speaker 1>the Marvel Comics character. It is directed by Louis Leterrier

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<v Speaker 1>from a screenplay by Zach Penn, starring Edward Norton, Livetyler,

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Roth, William Hurt, Tim Blake Nelson, and Ty Burrell.

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<v Speaker 1>It was made for a budget of one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty million dollars a gross two hundred and sixty four

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<v Speaker 1>point seven million at the box office. This is only

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<v Speaker 1>the second movie in the MCU, following Iron Man and

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<v Speaker 1>If I just look at its reception quickly on Rotten Tomatoes,

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<v Speaker 1>it has an average rating of sixty eight percent. The

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<v Speaker 1>critics consensus reads, The Incredible Hulk may not be quite

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<v Speaker 1>the smashing success that fans of Marvel's raging behemouth might

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<v Speaker 1>hope for, but it offers more than enough big green

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<v Speaker 1>action to make up for its occasionally puny narrative. Ha

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<v Speaker 1>ha ha, aren't they so funny? Todd McCarthy. Todd McCarthy

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<v Speaker 1>of Variety said what seemed in theory the least necessary

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<v Speaker 1>revival of a big screen superhero emerges as a perfectly

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<v Speaker 1>solid summer action fair In The Incredible Hulk, He emphasized,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all par for the course. Cinematic demolition and destruction,

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<v Speaker 1>staged efficiently and with a hint of enthusiasm, and penned

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<v Speaker 1>with sporadic wit. Visuals lean towards the dark and murky,

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<v Speaker 1>but editing by three actually six hands is fleet, and

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<v Speaker 1>Craig Armstrong's ever present score is simultaneously bombastic and helpfully

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<v Speaker 1>supportive of the action. Effects are in line with the

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<v Speaker 1>picks generally pro but not inspired achievements. Renee Rodriguez of

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<v Speaker 1>The Mihami Herald applauded the film. It does a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of things Anglee's Hulk didn't. It's lighter and faster paced,

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<v Speaker 1>it's funnier, and it embraces instead of ignoring the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventies TV series that feathered the characters that furthered the

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<v Speaker 1>character's popularity. Mark Rana of The Seattle Times wrote, the

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<v Speaker 1>relaunch of Marvel's Green Goliath is an improvement over Director

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<v Speaker 1>Angle's ponderous two thousand and three Hulk in nearly every way,

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<v Speaker 1>except that the actual Hulk still looks scarcely better than

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<v Speaker 1>something from a video game, and he still barely talks.

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<v Speaker 1>Roger Ebertt was not a fan of the film, stating

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<v Speaker 1>the Incredible Hulk is no doubt an ideal version of

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<v Speaker 1>the Hulk saga for those who found Anglee's Hulk two

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<v Speaker 1>Talkie or Dear I Say too thoughtful, but not for me.

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<v Speaker 1>It sidesteps the intriguing aspects of hulkdom and spends way

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<v Speaker 1>too much time in dear I Say, noisy and mindless

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<v Speaker 1>action sequences. Christy Lemmeray of The Associated Press found that

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<v Speaker 1>the inevitable comparisons to Iron Man Marvel's Judios's first blockbuster

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<v Speaker 1>this Summer serve as a glaring reminder of what this

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<v Speaker 1>Hulk lacks wit and heart. Despite the presence of Edward Norton,

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<v Speaker 1>an actor capable of going just as deep as Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Downey Jr. We don't feel a strong sense of Bruce

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<v Speaker 1>Banners inner conflict. Ao Scott of The New York Times

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<v Speaker 1>opined the Adequate Hulk would have been a more suitable type.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good pun, but it does not match the film.

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<v Speaker 2>There are some films not adequate.

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<v Speaker 1>There are some big thumping fights and a few bright

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<v Speaker 1>shards of pop culture wit, but for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>this movie seems content to aim for the generic mean.

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<v Speaker 1>David Anson of Newsweek wrote, Leterrier has style, he's good

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<v Speaker 1>with action, and he's eager to give the audience its

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<v Speaker 1>money's worth of bone crunching battles. Still, once the movie

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<v Speaker 1>leaves the atmospheric Brazilian setting, nothing in this Hulk sinks

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<v Speaker 1>in deeply. Its familiar genre pleasures are all on the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>The movie scene stealer is Tim Blake Nelson making a

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<v Speaker 1>comically welcomeferred act appearance as the unethical but madly enthusias

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<v Speaker 1>aastic scientist Samuel Sterns so I added The Incredible Hulk

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<v Speaker 1>to our list because a we're just going through the

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<v Speaker 1>early Marvel films anyway to see how they differed from

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<v Speaker 1>the modern MCU fair, but ask.

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<v Speaker 2>A quick question before you go on. Yeah, well, the

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<v Speaker 2>fuck is Ang Lee's Hulk.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the Eric Banner one from two thousand and three. Same,

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<v Speaker 1>it came up between the two Spider Man movies. If

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<v Speaker 1>you've never seen it, it's terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean this is terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it makes this look like gold. It's fucking awful. Really, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you think the CGI is bad in this one?

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<v Speaker 1>The Hulk looks like the Scorpion King in the first one,

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<v Speaker 1>and is a bit where he fights mutated rotweilers that

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<v Speaker 1>also looked like the Scorpion King. And the main villain

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<v Speaker 1>is Nick Nolte. Oh that's not villain Joyce, who fully

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<v Speaker 1>is in the phase of doesn't care about acting anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>At that point. He plays the absorbing Man, who can

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<v Speaker 1>absorb anything he told so like. At one point he

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<v Speaker 1>becomes an electric dude because he absorbs and basically, if

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<v Speaker 1>I remember right, he tries to absorb the Hulk but

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<v Speaker 1>can't handle the Rage Man and it makes him explode.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, there is somehow a Hulk movie that's worse

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<v Speaker 2>than this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, this isn't this is the improvement.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay, yeah, I will try and be kinder. I

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<v Speaker 2>do have just quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>The other reason I wanted to put this one in

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<v Speaker 1>is As I said, this is only the second MCU moving.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought this came before Iron Man because Iron Man

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<v Speaker 2>is so much better than this.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, they came out the same summer, so they were

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<v Speaker 1>both made at the same time.

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<v Speaker 2>They got it right with.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. I wonder reason I want to talk about this

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<v Speaker 1>one is and I'm only talking up to Endgame at

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<v Speaker 1>this point because I'm not super familiar with the later

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<v Speaker 1>MCU apart from a couple of the films, I generally

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<v Speaker 1>regard this one as the worst one in the MCU,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want I thought it'd be interesting to look

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<v Speaker 1>at that and sort of talk about why did this

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<v Speaker 1>not derail the entire MCU project because it could have done.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in my opinion, what was the one that came

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<v Speaker 2>out after it? Because obviously, man, that was Ship as well.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the one that was the one that I watched

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<v Speaker 2>at the cinema, And I love Mickey Rawke Guilty Pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually like Iron Mantu. I we might find differently

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<v Speaker 1>when we watch it on mc on on STC, but

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<v Speaker 1>my memory is Iron Mantu is my favorite. Iron Man really, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mainly I really really like Sam Rock. Well, so

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I'm blinded by Sam Rock. Well, yeah, I I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not blinded by there is that agregious and awful Elon

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<v Speaker 1>Musk cameo in that movie I can't remember. Oh yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because I watched it, wasn't a big deal of No.

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<v Speaker 1>You know they go to the racetrack, don't they. Monica

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<v Speaker 1>is a bit where Elon Musk's in it and start

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<v Speaker 1>goes up to him and like congratulates him on Tesla, and.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, especially since he didn't make Tesla, yeah bought

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<v Speaker 2>it and he's just terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, anyway, can we re edit the film so

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<v Speaker 1>it's just Iron Man takes out Elon Musk.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be a better film.

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<v Speaker 1>Let Mickira keep whipping people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, what he wants is his bird. I want

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<v Speaker 2>my borrow, my borrow, my burrod.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, we we'll get you the fucking bird.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay it's not okay, it's not your bird, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a bird.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at the man's face. He's been through some shit.

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<v Speaker 2>El Mousk hasn't give him some ground, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Rory, is this your first time ever seeing the

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<v Speaker 1>incredible Hawk? I'm guessing so from what you said.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, i'd heard it was bad. I'd heard that the

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<v Speaker 2>first Hulk movie was shit, and after watching it, I

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<v Speaker 2>assumed this was that one. So I feel a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit awkward now because I was like, yeah, clearly I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in the same pain as everyone else at the first

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<v Speaker 2>Hulk movie shit and they were talking about Hulk from

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three.

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<v Speaker 1>To be fair, I don't know anyone who thinks this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Is great, right, Okay, good good. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be stepping on people's toes. Look, there are things I

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<v Speaker 2>will praise in this film as we go through it,

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<v Speaker 2>but overall this film is just I've said this before,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'll keep it brief. Superhero movies aren't really my jam,

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<v Speaker 2>and this falls into certainly by the second half. This

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<v Speaker 2>falls very firmly into the main reason as to why

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like them, same reason I hated Man of Steel,

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<v Speaker 2>same reason that I turned off a little bit towards

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<v Speaker 2>the end of Iron Man, though overall that film is

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<v Speaker 2>much much better. Cgi people slamming into each other does

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<v Speaker 2>nothing for me. There's no stakes, there's no point. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just it's grabbing two action figures and slight slamming them

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<v Speaker 2>up against each other constantly until you've decided, as the writer,

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<v Speaker 2>or this one loses now, so you know I need

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<v Speaker 2>to And so actually that starts as off quite nicely

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<v Speaker 2>as to the story of this. I need to know

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<v Speaker 2>the limitations of your character if you're doing because you

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<v Speaker 2>can kind of avoid that in a like if I

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<v Speaker 2>do a police drama, I know the limitations of the character.

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<v Speaker 2>To an audience knows the limitations of the character because

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<v Speaker 2>are either established that they're smart, or that they're street wise,

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<v Speaker 2>or that they've got some trait that's positive. But overall

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<v Speaker 2>they're human. So they're not gonna be going right now,

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<v Speaker 2>I've solved this case. Time to fly to the next destination,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because that's not what a police drama will do.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know the limitations. You know that if they

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<v Speaker 2>get shot, they're probably gonna die. If they get stabbed,

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<v Speaker 2>if they're in a fistfight, they have to live on

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<v Speaker 2>their wits, et cetera, et cetera. With a superhero, certainly

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<v Speaker 2>even something like the Hulk, but Superman has this problem

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<v Speaker 2>as well. Just punch him, keep punching, keep punching, keep punching. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>nothing happened because They're essentially invincible, and the only way

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<v Speaker 2>you can give that stakes is to go right. There

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<v Speaker 2>is a limitation to this character, and the limitation is

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<v Speaker 2>they are essentially invincible until this happens. Superman tried to

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<v Speaker 2>introduce that with Kryptonite, though ironically it's not one of

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<v Speaker 2>the reasons he's ever died in the comics. He's died

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<v Speaker 2>about five times from other means, such as being crushed.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how, but whatever. Uh yeah, so I

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<v Speaker 2>need to know what the limitation is. The problem this

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<v Speaker 2>film has, and it's something that when I mentioned it

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<v Speaker 2>to you while watching it, you're like, oh, It's something

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<v Speaker 2>I liked about the film is that they skip the

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<v Speaker 2>entire backstory of Hulk. It's literally the film opens up

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<v Speaker 2>to the opening credits, no dialogue, and it's just he's

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<v Speaker 2>man in chair, man, get injection, man turned Hulk Man,

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<v Speaker 2>punch woman in face, near enough, hurt some people who

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<v Speaker 2>were scientists or soldiers. Anyway, Man feels sad man disappear,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we get to the film where he's already

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<v Speaker 2>like the whole story of what the Hulk is has

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<v Speaker 2>already been and gone, and he's now living out in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of Mexico, No Brazil. He's now living out

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle of Brazil in a packing plant, trying

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<v Speaker 2>to hide away from the fact that he's the Hulk.

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<v Speaker 2>The problem is, I understand from what you told me

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<v Speaker 2>when you messaged me, which is I like that because

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<v Speaker 2>we've already seen the story of the whole and now

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<v Speaker 2>knowing that there's the two thousand and three one five

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<v Speaker 2>years later going hey, here's the origin again, I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>And for most people this probably won't be a big

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<v Speaker 2>deal because I know there's a lot of comic book fans,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't know the limitations of your Hulk. So

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<v Speaker 2>when the Hulk eventually comes out, it's just an invincible

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<v Speaker 2>man slamming into things. And it's not even a real man.

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<v Speaker 2>It's CG. I Man. So this intro is bad for

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<v Speaker 2>me as someone who's not massively into comics. Whereas with

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<v Speaker 2>Iron Man, I had less of a clue about Iron Man.

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<v Speaker 2>Couldn't name you an iron Man before they made the

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<v Speaker 2>Iron Man movie, I could name you a Hulk. He's

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<v Speaker 2>in it. Lu Forigno, I could I know of the Hulk,

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<v Speaker 2>did not. Iron Man is a nothing to me until

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden they used him and made a

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<v Speaker 2>massive deal out of him in the MCU. But I

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<v Speaker 2>cared about him because, like, here's a flawed guyer. He's

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<v Speaker 2>been kidnapped, he's only got his intelligence. He's on a

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<v Speaker 2>basically on a timer because he's got his chest has

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<v Speaker 2>been damaged, and he's got to build this supersuit and

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<v Speaker 2>he has to you know, yes he's got a super suit,

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<v Speaker 2>and yes you end up with two CGI men flying

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<v Speaker 2>into each other in space, but you know what the

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<v Speaker 2>limitations are. It's still a machine. It still has areas

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<v Speaker 2>where it can go wrong. He's still got the limitation

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<v Speaker 2>of the damage on his chest. So if you were

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<v Speaker 2>to hit him in the chest quite squally, you probably

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<v Speaker 2>do him quite a batter injustice. Yeah, I've just felt

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<v Speaker 2>like you said a posh sounding word. It's probably not

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<v Speaker 2>even a real word.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Squarely is the word you're looking square?

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<v Speaker 1>Get him squire of the chest.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, basically you got the limitations to Tony Stark,

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<v Speaker 2>and him as Iron Man was still Tony Stark. With

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<v Speaker 2>the Hulk, you've got Bruce Banner as a normal man

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<v Speaker 2>with limitations, and then you've got the Hulk, who is

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<v Speaker 2>in vincer murdering monster, except he never hurts a single

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<v Speaker 2>person who's not a villain in this film, and that.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that is where I think we run into the problem. So,

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<v Speaker 1>in all honesty, I'm not a big Hulk fan, as

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I've said it before on the show. When

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<v Speaker 1>I was a kid, I used to watch all the

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<v Speaker 1>superhero cartoon shows. Yeah, I've never really liked the incredible Hulk.

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<v Speaker 1>I never thought it was very interesting. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>only way you can make this interesting but they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>do it because I guess even then, the Marvel formula

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<v Speaker 1>was starting to creep in even though we hadn't solidified

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<v Speaker 1>it yet. The Marvel formula doesn't get solidified until Avengers,

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<v Speaker 1>when Joss Whedon kind of solidifies it, and then that's

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<v Speaker 1>the template that they follow for every Marvel film since

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<v Speaker 1>we don't. But exactly what you said, like, the only

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<v Speaker 1>way to take this character interesting is okay, Fine, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to do a character who has no limits. They

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<v Speaker 1>are an unstoppable wrecking machine. Fine, has the stakes has

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<v Speaker 1>to be the danger he poses to everybody else.

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<v Speaker 2>The collateral damage, that's the issue. Like he may do

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<v Speaker 2>good things, but the collateral damage during it which we

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<v Speaker 2>see on buildings, but buildings can be rebuilt. We have

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<v Speaker 2>a human life, that's the interesting thing. Or you play

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<v Speaker 2>the jaccul and Hyde element, which is I'm guessing the

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<v Speaker 2>original influence for the Incredible Hulk, which is its JaQuel

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<v Speaker 2>and Hyde, but with superheroes. And in this both forms

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<v Speaker 2>of Banner, which is him as Bruce Banner and him

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<v Speaker 2>as the Hulk, are good guys. They never hurt anyone

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<v Speaker 2>in consequential. There is no real collateral damage outside of

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<v Speaker 2>surface damage to buildings, and there is even to the

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<v Speaker 2>point where he takes his ex girlfriend or current girlfriend

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<v Speaker 2>ex girlfriend. I think at that point.

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<v Speaker 1>Tyber El's current girlfriend, yes, she.

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<v Speaker 2>Cheats the hell on him, but basically takes her safety

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<v Speaker 2>from the military guys and then just looks after it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's like, oh, Then afterwards Bruce Banner goes, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't recognize that guy. There's nothing of me in there,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's like, but he's a good guy. He's clearly

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<v Speaker 2>a good guy. Doesn't have any advantage or take advantage

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<v Speaker 2>in any like sort of positive or negative way. He's

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<v Speaker 2>just like you say, they go to sleep, I'll watch

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<v Speaker 2>over you.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a line later in the film once Abomination has

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<v Speaker 1>started wrecking the city, where he says to General Ross,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ross. General Ross says, are you telling me you

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<v Speaker 1>can control it? And he says no, but maybe we

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<v Speaker 1>can aim it. When he's justifying let in the Hulk

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<v Speaker 1>go to fight the abomination. That would mean so much

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<v Speaker 1>more if we'd have seen him actually wreckshit yes before,

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<v Speaker 1>but there is no you are right, like, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>denying it. There's no weight to the Hulk hulking out

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<v Speaker 1>because he only ever injures the bad guys.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got to be so if you were to basically

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<v Speaker 2>go right, we're gonna it has to be a situation

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<v Speaker 2>basically where it's like, right, we need to let an

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<v Speaker 2>animal loose in here, Let's send in a fucking silver

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<v Speaker 2>back goerrilla against these soldiers. Right, they've got no real

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00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.359
<v Speaker 2>guns that can do any damage to it. We're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>send in a silver back gorilla. Now, the silver back

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00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.359
<v Speaker 2>gouerrilla will probably take out the guys quite easily because

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00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.839
<v Speaker 2>it's bigger, it's more powerful than them. You can't aim it.

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00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:24.599
<v Speaker 2>It's so it's just a force of nature. The Hulk

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00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.200
<v Speaker 2>had to be that, but we know he's not because

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00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.319
<v Speaker 2>a of what he does with the girlfriend, where he's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I've got to protect this person, which is not what

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<v Speaker 2>a silver Back would do in that scenario. And number

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<v Speaker 2>two because of the fact that during the first battle

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<v Speaker 2>he has with the remember the bit outside the university

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<v Speaker 2>grounds and you've got the helicopter coming in and shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the tanks with the sound weapons. That's it.

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<v Speaker 2>When he's getting attacked with the sound weapons, the Hulk himself,

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<v Speaker 2>not Bruce Banner, figures out how to defeat them because

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<v Speaker 2>he's getting owned by the sound waves. He then gets

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<v Speaker 2>the bits of metal, uses them as a barricade against

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<v Speaker 2>the sound wave, and then throws the other one.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that bit.

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<v Speaker 2>That was clever. But the problem is is now he's

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<v Speaker 2>not a force of nature. He's a reasonable he's a reasoning,

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<v Speaker 2>thinking person. So but he's not the Hulk.

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<v Speaker 1>Find that so you can you can either do there's

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<v Speaker 1>multiple points where they drop the ball here, Yeah, because

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00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.960
<v Speaker 1>you've dropped the ball on the unstoppable killing force. Yep, Okay,

325
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<v Speaker 1>you've gone with this option instead. Okay, this could still

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00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.279
<v Speaker 1>be interesting because now clearly there is some of Banner

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<v Speaker 1>in the Hulk, and the implication of that is something

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00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.559
<v Speaker 1>that would be really fun to explore because it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh so when you're a little cleanly tiny back. It's

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<v Speaker 1>that argument about if you give a human being power,

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<v Speaker 1>they inevitably turn evil. It's that you could have done

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<v Speaker 1>something about it, but they don't tell you what they couldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know, obviously they couldn't have known this back

334
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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and eight because they can't predict the future.

335
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<v Speaker 1>They could have killed liv Tyler because Betty Ross never

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00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.319
<v Speaker 1>comes back in the MCU ever, she's she is Hulk's

337
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<v Speaker 1>main loving aston because she's his Mary Jane in the

338
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.400
<v Speaker 1>in the comics, they could have killed her off. But

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<v Speaker 1>I did actually watch a video earlier today that was

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00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.920
<v Speaker 1>talking about how the MCU got the Hulk completely wrong,

341
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:17.759
<v Speaker 1>not just the Holt, but Bruce Banner himself, which is

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<v Speaker 1>and this had the whole MCU, and it had never

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<v Speaker 1>occurred to me until I watched this. He never faces

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<v Speaker 1>consequences for the entire franchise. Ever, there are never consequences

345
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<v Speaker 1>to anything the Hulk does. The most you ever get

346
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.440
<v Speaker 1>is Mark Ruffalo looking sad for about two minutes, just

347
00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.119
<v Speaker 1>being like, oh, you know, you wouldn't like it when

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<v Speaker 1>when I let the other guy out, it's horrible and

349
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:45.759
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah. And then next thing you know, he's

350
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<v Speaker 1>fighting fucking Ultron or he's like, I'm always angry and

351
00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>fights the Jitari without Yeah, purely God, And it is

352
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.240
<v Speaker 1>funny in though Ragnarok, Hulk is in thought ragnar When

353
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Loki sees the Holk, he like shits himself and he's like,

354
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<v Speaker 1>gotta get out of here. But that's what I mean. Though,

355
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.759
<v Speaker 1>they've turned to the Hulk, who should be one of

356
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<v Speaker 1>your biggest pathos characters, and into the comedy sidekick of

357
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<v Speaker 1>the MCU.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it should be a case of when he comes

359
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.599
<v Speaker 2>out and he's You're like, we need the Hulk to

360
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.359
<v Speaker 2>help us in a scenario, but you're doing it because

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00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.599
<v Speaker 2>you know you're gonna lose something by initiating that. You'll

362
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.160
<v Speaker 2>win the fight, but you're gonna lose something in the meantime.

363
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.119
<v Speaker 2>And we never lose anything with the Hulk.

364
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>No. One thing I've seen from post end game MCU

365
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>is she Hulk. Yes, And so at the end of endgame,

366
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<v Speaker 1>the Hulk loses an arm. It doesn't get chopped off,

367
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>but it like withers and shrivels because he he's the

368
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<v Speaker 1>one who snaps the Infinity gems to bring everybody back

369
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.839
<v Speaker 1>because they're like, well, a human, a normal human can't

370
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<v Speaker 1>do it, would kill them, but because he's hulked out,

371
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 1>he can do it. And even him, the Hulk, it

372
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<v Speaker 1>like withers his arm to like nothing, turns up in

373
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<v Speaker 1>Sheehulk looking fine again, and there's a hand wavy line about, oh,

374
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<v Speaker 1>I used your fresh Hulk cells to inject my arm,

375
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<v Speaker 1>and now my arm's normal again. So there's no consequence

376
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.480
<v Speaker 1>that should be a big sacrifice that he, you know,

377
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.599
<v Speaker 1>gave his arm to bring the entire fucking half of

378
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.599
<v Speaker 1>the planet back. But it means nothing.

379
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.359
<v Speaker 2>No, because it's hand waved away.

380
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Because we're going to be fair the movie. And you

381
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:28.920
<v Speaker 1>could say this is for better or for worse. I'm

382
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<v Speaker 1>sure there's comic book fans who would argue that this

383
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.279
<v Speaker 1>is a good thing, but I'm a movie fan, so

384
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>it's not a good thing for me. They've ended up

385
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:40.759
<v Speaker 1>going into that comic book route of you can take

386
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.880
<v Speaker 1>the toys out of the box, play with them, do

387
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.279
<v Speaker 1>whatever you want in your movie, but at the end

388
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.759
<v Speaker 1>of your movie, the toys have to be back in

389
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:54.079
<v Speaker 1>the box ready for the next film. Yes, nothing can last, Yeah,

390
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:58.400
<v Speaker 1>no consequences. Yeah, and it's it's what's made the MCU

391
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<v Speaker 1>lose all of its steam, which it visibly has post

392
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<v Speaker 1>end game. You can see it in the box office performance.

393
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, let's let's not go through it beat by bat.

394
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960
<v Speaker 2>There's bits that I want to point out though.

395
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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I want to just talk about the Brazilian bit. Yes,

396
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 1>please do, because I I do agree with that. I

397
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>agree with ha ha ha ha. I agree with that

398
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.880
<v Speaker 1>critic who said the best part of the film is

399
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.920
<v Speaker 1>the Brazilian bit. It loses something after that bit. I

400
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>think the cinematography degrades very visibly as well. Yeah, the

401
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:31.559
<v Speaker 1>cinematography is the location is very visually interesting, the cinematophy

402
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>is good. And there's a couple of things like I

403
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.519
<v Speaker 1>did like that they skip through his origin story. I

404
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.279
<v Speaker 1>thought they did a very other than the fact he's British,

405
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:41.400
<v Speaker 1>which already clued you into the fact he was a villain,

406
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>they very quickly tell you that Blonski is the villain

407
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.039
<v Speaker 1>of this film by having him shoot the dog for

408
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.000
<v Speaker 1>no reason. Yes, and I was just like, boom, villain.

409
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.319
<v Speaker 1>Love it that's very effective, though. I know you're Scott,

410
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<v Speaker 1>So there's there's a there's number one.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good thing because I'm like, cool, Roth's the villain,

412
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.079
<v Speaker 2>got it great and good choice for a villain. Roth

413
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:04.039
<v Speaker 2>is a great villain in different films. The problem with

414
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:08.319
<v Speaker 2>it is it also made me hate Edward Norton because

415
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:10.079
<v Speaker 2>there's two dogs.

416
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:10.759
<v Speaker 1>He shoots.

417
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, Roth shoots a dog outside of the flat.

418
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.000
<v Speaker 2>That's how Norton wakes up and his dog is in

419
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:20.640
<v Speaker 2>the flat bark like barking because he knows it's gonna happen,

420
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Like he knows that there's negativity coming their way. So

421
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Norton funks off out the window leaves his dog to

422
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.640
<v Speaker 2>then also get shot.

423
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I missed, I missed the first one. Sorry, yeah, I was.

424
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Just like, fuck you, Yeah, you just left your dog

425
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.440
<v Speaker 2>to die? Sort of asshole? Are you?

426
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:37.519
<v Speaker 1>So?

427
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.640
<v Speaker 2>That that made me actually hate Bruce but Norton. Actually

428
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>that's me naming the man rather than the character. It

429
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>made me hate the Bruce Banner character because I'm like,

430
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.519
<v Speaker 2>you've now you've got a loyal pet. The one thing

431
00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>everyone knows about dogs is that they're loyal pets. And

432
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:52.440
<v Speaker 2>you've gone, hoh, it did the job. It woke you up,

433
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 2>and then you're like, hey, you can fucking die. You

434
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.440
<v Speaker 2>mean nothing, has no sadness, has no mention of the dog.

435
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Later it's like, you're a cunt. I really don't like you.

436
00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:02.839
<v Speaker 2>The other thing I want to mention as well is

437
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.720
<v Speaker 2>before that point is we get the stan Lee cameo

438
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.400
<v Speaker 2>quite early on, which is just get it out of

439
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>the way, yeah, which I'm not. The problem I have

440
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.920
<v Speaker 2>with this is like the beginning, we skipped over the

441
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.359
<v Speaker 2>entire actual meaning of the film straight away to rush

442
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.480
<v Speaker 2>into this new story. When the stan Lee cameo comes up,

443
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.680
<v Speaker 2>he's drunk the kool aid that has Edward Norton's blood

444
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.039
<v Speaker 2>in it.

445
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.799
<v Speaker 1>It's like knockoff Mountain do, isn't it?

446
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so he drinks it goes oh my, drops

447
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.279
<v Speaker 2>the thing and the glass breaks on the floor. And

448
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>then all that happens from that is a throwaway line later,

449
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.359
<v Speaker 2>which is there's a guy who's drunk the blood. We've

450
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:45.519
<v Speaker 2>dealt with that, now we have to know where it

451
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.559
<v Speaker 2>is just a stapping stone to mate. Yeah, It's used

452
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.599
<v Speaker 2>as a stapping stone for William Hurt to realize what

453
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.240
<v Speaker 2>country ed hiding. We find out throughout the course of

454
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.680
<v Speaker 2>this film, because he injects tim Roth with stuff. We

455
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.960
<v Speaker 2>find find out that just the touch of the blood

456
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.240
<v Speaker 2>on the guy's head later makes it start, so we

457
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:09.119
<v Speaker 2>know it's highly toxic. It can change anything.

458
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>You want to Stanley the Hulk, Well, no, I just

459
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 1>want to know what the fuck happened to him? I

460
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:15.440
<v Speaker 1>could grow the Stanley Hulk.

461
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Stanley that you know what, better film smash.

462
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I kind of expected that.

463
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.240
<v Speaker 2>To come back a little bit later in some way

464
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:27.880
<v Speaker 2>at least, like what was it? Did it kill him?

465
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Did he hulk out and have to get taken down?

466
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.680
<v Speaker 2>What was what was the narrative.

467
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.799
<v Speaker 1>That there's a throwaway line about radiation sickness, So I

468
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.920
<v Speaker 1>assume he dies. But you are right, everyone else who

469
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:43.839
<v Speaker 1>gets the blood mute. Unless you're supposed to just believe

470
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.440
<v Speaker 1>Will Stanleys so old that it just kills.

471
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Like that, there has to be a consequence to that

472
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.279
<v Speaker 2>action outside of because if it's just old man dies

473
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 2>after drinking mountain dew because he's old man, how at

474
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>what point with the minuere going to go, oh my god,

475
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.160
<v Speaker 2>it's the wholt blood well.

476
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.319
<v Speaker 1>Because they'd be like, people don't just randomly get radiation

477
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:08.440
<v Speaker 1>sickness in their own kitchen.

478
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but why would they've tested in for radiation sickness.

479
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.799
<v Speaker 1>Because the signs of radiation sickness has very visible symptoms.

480
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 2>Not the way that it's showed in the film.

481
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, because it cuts away after ten seconds, they take

482
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:23.759
<v Speaker 1>a few days to materialize.

483
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it didn't take them a few days to

484
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.319
<v Speaker 2>get the information, so you must have died instantly.

485
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:30.319
<v Speaker 1>We don't know how long it takes, it's just it

486
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.119
<v Speaker 1>just cuts. It could be days, it could be minutes,

487
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.119
<v Speaker 1>it could be second then another problem. But no. The

488
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.680
<v Speaker 1>chase through Brazil, the Brazilian streets, I really liked, and

489
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.440
<v Speaker 1>I have made a note here about how it makes

490
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:50.920
<v Speaker 1>this film feel. It feels so different from the later MCU.

491
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 1>I can't tell you how many later MCU films I've

492
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:58.079
<v Speaker 1>seen where there's a chase sequence and it's all CGI.

493
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, they're just running through green screen and it's.

494
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Not even the real people as the people are CGI,

495
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.519
<v Speaker 1>like fucking Agent Smith and the Matrix. Yeah, and this

496
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.319
<v Speaker 1>is actual real people running through real streets, repelling down

497
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>real buildings, and it makes shit. The film benefits from

498
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.279
<v Speaker 1>its age in that sense. Yeah, definitely, because you go, oh,

499
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>this is back when we actually made movies.

500
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.279
<v Speaker 2>There's a bit later on with General Ross where he's

501
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:28.079
<v Speaker 2>talking to tim Roth in like a garage likes garage

502
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.640
<v Speaker 2>might be the wrong word, but like a large military

503
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:35.039
<v Speaker 2>garage with all these HCV not AGVs, with all these

504
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.119
<v Speaker 2>large vehicle military vehicles in it. APC's I think they're called,

505
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:41.839
<v Speaker 2>and you can tell they're actual sets with actual props,

506
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:44.119
<v Speaker 2>and I was just like, they don't right, use any

507
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.319
<v Speaker 2>of those APCs or anything in this scene. But it's like, cool,

508
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:48.960
<v Speaker 2>we've got them. I can see they're real.

509
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:49.799
<v Speaker 1>There's a world.

510
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like I can get invested in with depth. Yeah,

511
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 2>this only lasts for half the film.

512
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.519
<v Speaker 1>I have put it's around the twenty five minute mark.

513
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:03.720
<v Speaker 1>The film takes a notice dip in pacing, and in

514
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:10.039
<v Speaker 1>my interest, lean, yes, yes, definitely agree the CGI has aged.

515
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna hold that against it necessarily because all

516
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.119
<v Speaker 1>CGI ages, although I seem to remember I've not seen

517
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:19.640
<v Speaker 1>it in a few years, but I think things like

518
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>Jurassic Park still hold up.

519
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Essentially. In Jurassic Park, for the most part, the CGI

520
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:27.119
<v Speaker 2>was used to enhance practical effects whereas there was a

521
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:29.440
<v Speaker 2>couple of bits where you had CGI dinosaurs that do

522
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 2>look a little ropee, but they're very brief. A lot

523
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.200
<v Speaker 2>of it was prop work, so it holds up still,

524
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.279
<v Speaker 2>and even then, because it was one of the first

525
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:40.559
<v Speaker 2>films to really kind of try and kaibash those together

526
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>in a realistic fashion. On the sets where they were

527
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:48.079
<v Speaker 2>doing a full CGI dinosaur, they would still have an

528
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>item there, like not just like a tennis ball, but

529
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:55.319
<v Speaker 2>like an actual robot dinosaur, so that they could light

530
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.440
<v Speaker 2>it and go right, this is how the lighting should

531
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.160
<v Speaker 2>look on the dinosaur itself, so they weren't having to

532
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:02.920
<v Speaker 2>guess or pretend what that should look like in post

533
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.000
<v Speaker 2>that that helped a lot by making the CG I

534
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.640
<v Speaker 2>feel part of the scene. Naturally, they don't seem to

535
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:12.640
<v Speaker 2>do that anymore. Yeah, they light everything for green screen

536
00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:16.880
<v Speaker 2>and CGI, so everything's flat so that technically the CGI

537
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 2>looks as realistic as the footage.

538
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:21.000
<v Speaker 1>But I hate to tell you. I'll tell you the

539
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.599
<v Speaker 1>reason why, and I hate to tell you this. It's

540
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:29.559
<v Speaker 1>because the general public don't care. Well, no, the general

541
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.480
<v Speaker 1>public do care, but they didn't realize they cared. So

542
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.480
<v Speaker 1>what I mean by that is the films where they

543
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.799
<v Speaker 1>did everything. CGI sold massively. Well, so of course the

544
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.000
<v Speaker 1>studio goes, will people vote with their wallets? We can

545
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.359
<v Speaker 1>get away. We're doing this and you are starting to

546
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.680
<v Speaker 1>see increased discourse online of people go in, I can't

547
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:50.680
<v Speaker 1>put my finger See we know why films are shipped now, Yeah,

548
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.039
<v Speaker 1>because we make films these. I see a lot of

549
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>discourse of people go in, I can't put my finger

550
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>on it. But films are not good anymore, and they

551
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.000
<v Speaker 1>can't I put their finger on one.

552
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.480
<v Speaker 2>They don't know. Yeah, I suppose it'd be like if

553
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.839
<v Speaker 2>I drive a car and there's something wrong with the car.

554
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I probably don't know what's wrong with the car, but

555
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I can feel that the car isn't operating properly.

556
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:12.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it could sit there and go, well, it

557
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:17.039
<v Speaker 1>feels like something's wrong with the one of something like that,

558
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.920
<v Speaker 1>they could probably analyze it by driving Surprised the word carburetor.

559
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I should know more because I watched a lot

560
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.160
<v Speaker 2>of top Gear and I own a motorbike. But surprisingly

561
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.839
<v Speaker 2>all of the mechanical words in my brain just disappeared.

562
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Fan a belt, Oh that's not a mechanical components coming

563
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:43.240
<v Speaker 1>to me naming parts of a car chassis chassis chassis,

564
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:51.400
<v Speaker 1>not chassis chassis, the chassis chassis, chassis chassis, the engine,

565
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the radiator, the steering column. Anyway, So Edward not an

566
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.680
<v Speaker 1>going back to America because he's been communicating with this

567
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:06.960
<v Speaker 1>mister Blue who will meet later on and Betty. Ross

568
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.640
<v Speaker 1>has moved on and is dating Tyberrell from Modern Family.

569
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Who is unfairly written out of the film halfway through.

570
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well it turns out he betrayed Banner, didn't he

571
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.559
<v Speaker 1>did he? Yeah, there's a conversation between him and Ross

572
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.119
<v Speaker 1>where it so the way.

573
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I thought that conversation was just him telling Ross that

574
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>he's a dick for abandoning his daughter or using his

575
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>daughter as well.

576
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:32.319
<v Speaker 1>I could be wrong, but I'm sure I tuned out

577
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>a lot through by this point because the film is

578
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm fairly certain that's how Ross finds him at the

579
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>university is tyber There's a line where Tiberrell says, I

580
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:43.000
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I did the right thing actually, because

581
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 1>that's it. Yes, Tiberrell has sold him out at the UNI,

582
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:49.880
<v Speaker 1>but didn't expect Ross to attack while live Tyler was there,

583
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and then he choose him out for you put your

584
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.680
<v Speaker 1>own daughter in danger and then yeah, he's gone, he's

585
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 1>out of the movie, which is that's just done because

586
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:01.359
<v Speaker 1>then live Tyler's carry not lift Tyler.

587
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Betty Ross, Yes, with Tyler. That's only done so

588
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that Betty Ross has to face no consequences for her cheating.

589
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which technically she does not do because Edward not

590
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:16.119
<v Speaker 1>and Connor can't do it. She snogs him, she does,

591
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:18.000
<v Speaker 1>she does, she does snog him, Yes, and she's the

592
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>one initiating.

593
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>So it's clearly if he could perform, she would have.

594
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to go into what would have happened

595
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.359
<v Speaker 2>had he hulked out halfway through, but believe.

596
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.119
<v Speaker 1>Me, there's fan fiction's on the internet about that. So

597
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:35.559
<v Speaker 1>you just let the internet worry about that, don't, don't. Yes,

598
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.200
<v Speaker 1>that is what devian art is for. So the big

599
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:39.920
<v Speaker 1>fight scene at UNI, there was bits of it I liked.

600
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.480
<v Speaker 1>There was bits of it I didn't. I liked the

601
00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:45.240
<v Speaker 1>sound guns and the whole having to work out how

602
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 1>to do him. It looks. It doesn't look great, but

603
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.160
<v Speaker 1>it looks better than I would expect.

604
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.799
<v Speaker 2>The helicopter, I looks it's weirdly ropey because it's a

605
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 2>CGI helicopter, right, And as I was watching it, there's

606
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 2>bits where like the Hult would turn around and there's

607
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:00.319
<v Speaker 2>a hulk and a helicopter and the helicopter looks worse

608
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.880
<v Speaker 2>than the whole and I'm like, guys, like one of

609
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:06.119
<v Speaker 2>those is clearly easier to manufacture.

610
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 1>I know it's not great, but I kind of like

611
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the bit where he just boots Blonski into the tree

612
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh, this was a good bit though,

613
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:20.160
<v Speaker 1>because I quite like the idea that, Like, I'm not

614
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 1>a fan of this scene because again it's a lot

615
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of CGI, but the idea that tim Roth has been

616
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.079
<v Speaker 1>given some more powers, He's been given some of the

617
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:32.599
<v Speaker 1>bloods are trying to human himself and gave at first,

618
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:34.559
<v Speaker 1>he's been given the because that's one of our two

619
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 1>links we get to. The main MCU shield gets mentioned,

620
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.960
<v Speaker 1>and they also they talk about the super Soldier program

621
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.240
<v Speaker 1>from World War Two, which is what makes Captain America

622
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:46.759
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's some of the Captain America serum

623
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:47.720
<v Speaker 1>they give him first.

624
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I wondered why he wasn't hulking out later.

625
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the first thing they give him is the Captain

626
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Americans in which just makes you stronger and faster, and

627
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:58.160
<v Speaker 1>as we learn later in the MCU, it emphasizes whatever

628
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.839
<v Speaker 1>you already are, which is why Captain in America's a

629
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.079
<v Speaker 1>goody two shoes becomes a paragon of virtue. They give

630
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.559
<v Speaker 1>it to Blonski, who is power hungry, and he becomes

631
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:09.800
<v Speaker 1>more power hungry.

632
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, I thought they just gave him some more

633
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:15.320
<v Speaker 2>whole blood, but whatever, But either way, I like the

634
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.000
<v Speaker 2>fact that he got the extra power, and it also

635
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>made him more cocky because it was just like, well,

636
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.480
<v Speaker 2>now I can match you toe for toe and then

637
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.159
<v Speaker 2>found out very quickly he could not.

638
00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he revives, though they do the traditional villain ie

639
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:33.760
<v Speaker 1>opening thing. Yeah he's in the hospital, benet into his

640
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.239
<v Speaker 1>face because his eyes are the score just got dud dump.

641
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:39.920
<v Speaker 2>But like the whole thing is they say, right, basically,

642
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.519
<v Speaker 2>his bones are a gristle at this point, like it's

643
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:46.320
<v Speaker 2>been just Hulk smashed so hard that his bones are nothing,

644
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>but his bones are still holding his body together somehow,

645
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:54.400
<v Speaker 2>and then he makes a full recovery almost, which isn't

646
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.320
<v Speaker 2>really explained.

647
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:58.239
<v Speaker 1>That's so that's the serum.

648
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 2>So the serum gave him healing as well, right, which.

649
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 1>I think it does to Captain America as well.

650
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the problem though, you need to know all

651
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of that, and I don't think Captain America will come

652
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 2>out yet.

653
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:11.119
<v Speaker 1>No, that's the last one before the first Avengers film.

654
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, But Luthrigno, as I say, he's in this, he's

655
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:17.559
<v Speaker 2>a security guard at Carver University before this big fight.

656
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I like that moment, but again it's one of those

657
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.199
<v Speaker 2>things where if you don't know who louth Frigno is

658
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the scene, you're like, why is he shaking the hand

659
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:26.400
<v Speaker 2>of the security guard.

660
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 1>And he gets another cameo as a security guard in

661
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:31.239
<v Speaker 1>the first Avengers movie.

662
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh does he I forgot that?

663
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Yea, unless I'm wrong. I fairly certainly has a cameo

664
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.559
<v Speaker 1>in the First Avengers, but I could be wrong. Here's

665
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>another bit where they had the chance and they dropped

666
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 1>the ball again. So we talked about where Hawk works

667
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.519
<v Speaker 1>out doing the thing with the sound guns and you're like, oh,

668
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>there's a little bit of Edward Norton in him. You

669
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>then get a scene I liked, but it goes nowhere

670
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.840
<v Speaker 1>where Edward Norton's having a shower and he gets a

671
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:58.760
<v Speaker 1>PTSD flashback to the guns, the gatling guns of the

672
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.239
<v Speaker 1>helicopter firing at him when he looks at the shower hair.

673
00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:05.840
<v Speaker 1>So clearly he has some of Hulk's memories. Yes, and

674
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:07.679
<v Speaker 1>I was like, okay, nice to have a bit more

675
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.199
<v Speaker 1>about that, because they're they're hinting at this Jackal and

676
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Hyde thing.

677
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if the Hult did something negative like that's the

678
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.480
<v Speaker 2>other problem, because the Hulk doesn't really do anything problematic.

679
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.280
<v Speaker 2>All we've got for those negative flashbacks are all the

680
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.719
<v Speaker 2>gatling guns were firing, Whereas if it had been he'd

681
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.800
<v Speaker 2>crushed an old woman to death by accident or by

682
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.800
<v Speaker 2>not or just by rage, that would have been the

683
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:34.480
<v Speaker 2>thing that flashed back to him. That would have had

684
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.239
<v Speaker 2>more impact because it'd be like, holy shit, of guild, someone.

685
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.400
<v Speaker 1>You probably could have had, and that the fans would

686
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:41.320
<v Speaker 1>not have liked this because it means you're killing a

687
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.559
<v Speaker 1>catch who stays around for ages in the comic books.

688
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.679
<v Speaker 1>But if he'd have killed General Ross, who I know

689
00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 1>comes back later in the MCU. But if you'd have

690
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:53.119
<v Speaker 1>killed General Ross, that would have furthered this storyline where

691
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:56.360
<v Speaker 1>you go, okay, so that's the Hulk, and I don't

692
00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:58.639
<v Speaker 1>mean General Ross attacks him first, I mean, Hulk goes

693
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:00.320
<v Speaker 1>out of his way in the middle of that battle,

694
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:06.400
<v Speaker 1>because then the Hulk is carrying out the Banner's beef. Yeah,

695
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.840
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, so it's not fully uncontrolled. No, it's

696
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:10.920
<v Speaker 1>an instinct thing.

697
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Maybe, Yeah, it's it's whatever his deepest desire would be

698
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.199
<v Speaker 2>to do. It will then enact. The other thing as

699
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:19.280
<v Speaker 2>well that I find interesting is if we're going for oh,

700
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.920
<v Speaker 2>the trauma of the memories from being the Hulk, His

701
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:26.480
<v Speaker 2>trauma was remembering the gatling gun, not destroying tim Roth's

702
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:30.960
<v Speaker 2>body with that massive boot kick into the tree. Yeah,

703
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:33.039
<v Speaker 2>he didn't give a shit about tim Roth.

704
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Can I just say as well? And this is a

705
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:41.039
<v Speaker 1>problem the MCU will have a fair few times. I

706
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:44.280
<v Speaker 1>personally do not feel the chemistry between Ed Norton and

707
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Liv Tyler. I really didn't care if they ended up

708
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:48.559
<v Speaker 1>together or not.

709
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean a lot of my notes here, like at

710
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 2>forty five minutes in, I'm boring it feels like the

711
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:56.880
<v Speaker 2>wheels are spinning and waiting for something to happen. It's

712
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.800
<v Speaker 2>it's quite frequent, and I think a lot of it

713
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>is because of it feels like this film was rewritten

714
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.840
<v Speaker 2>to try and make it more dramatic, but when they

715
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.400
<v Speaker 2>did that, they forgot because of the type of film

716
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>it is, you really need someone to be bringing some

717
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 2>form of cheese, which you don't really get until the

718
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 2>latter half, like Tim Roth becomes that character kind of

719
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.480
<v Speaker 2>before he becomes a CGI monster man. I like the

720
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.880
<v Speaker 2>way he starts to turn. But General Ross is a guy,

721
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:27.159
<v Speaker 2>for example, who should be a lot more. He should

722
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be more like j Jonah Jamison or something from Spider Man.

723
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.119
<v Speaker 2>He needs to be more like that. William Hurt is

724
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.400
<v Speaker 2>playing him way too serious and the I'm sorry, it's

725
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.639
<v Speaker 2>a big cigar chewing, fucking military general. He should be

726
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:43.159
<v Speaker 2>played like the guy from Dr Strangelove. The guy is

727
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:45.719
<v Speaker 2>sort of around We're going to catch mother. And don't

728
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:47.880
<v Speaker 2>get me wrong, I love William Hurt. William Hurts a

729
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:52.920
<v Speaker 2>phenomenal actor, but he's doing this way too serious. If

730
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:54.599
<v Speaker 2>you think of J Jonah Jamison the bit where he's

731
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:57.480
<v Speaker 2>like gay picture as a Spider Man, but played it

732
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.440
<v Speaker 2>the way William Hurt plays this, it's not the same

733
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.079
<v Speaker 2>character and it's not as interesting.

734
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:03.159
<v Speaker 1>I know there was a big disagreement. I know there's

735
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:05.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of disagreements in this between Edward Norton and

736
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the creative team about the direction of the film, and

737
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.599
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like, based on what that critic review said,

738
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.719
<v Speaker 1>six people edited this movie, which probably goes probably goes

739
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.559
<v Speaker 1>some way to explaining why the pacing is dog shit, yes,

740
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 1>and all over the place. And you can tell I

741
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 1>lost some interest here as well, because I actually don't

742
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.840
<v Speaker 1>have any more notes now until the final fight starts.

743
00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:28.960
<v Speaker 1>I will say that Tim Blake Nelson turns up. They

744
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.039
<v Speaker 1>did single him out in one of the critic reviews.

745
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.400
<v Speaker 1>What did you think about Tim Blake. So he's the scientist,

746
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.719
<v Speaker 1>mister Blue Samuel sterns. He's doing a bit of an

747
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.800
<v Speaker 1>over the top thing, That's what I mean.

748
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 2>He's like him and Tim Roth are the only one's

749
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.800
<v Speaker 2>doing any of that, and you needed a lot more

750
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 2>of it. It's a little too little, too late. I

751
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't see anything stand out. But then he's still not

752
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.159
<v Speaker 2>meant to be quite because you told me he becomes

753
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:54.960
<v Speaker 2>a villain later that character. Yeah, so he's not quite

754
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:56.000
<v Speaker 2>fully in that mode.

755
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:57.920
<v Speaker 1>No, and that's what was with so you know you

756
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.559
<v Speaker 1>see saw his head start to morph it. Yeah, so

757
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:03.559
<v Speaker 1>he actually is the Hulk's arch and he's the Joker

758
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.599
<v Speaker 1>to the Hulk. He's called the Leader and he's got

759
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:08.440
<v Speaker 1>a huge Mars Attacks style.

760
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Brain, right, and that's what that was.

761
00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, but they end up not bringing this character

762
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:18.039
<v Speaker 1>back until I've heard he comes back, not in a

763
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Hawk film. He's in and I've not seen this film yet.

764
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 1>He's in the newest Captain America movie, the one that's

765
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:28.280
<v Speaker 1>got Anthony Mackie in it as Captain America. Yeah, they've

766
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:32.159
<v Speaker 1>got Tim Bake Nelson back again, but fifteen sixteen, seventeen

767
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 1>years later, and not in a Hulk movie.

768
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.519
<v Speaker 2>It's because the Hawk became irrelevant outside of a gag

769
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.960
<v Speaker 2>throughout the whole MCU following this film. I've never seen

770
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:46.800
<v Speaker 2>him used in a way that's actually thematically interesting in

771
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:47.880
<v Speaker 2>any of the movies.

772
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:51.840
<v Speaker 1>He's in my opinion, he's best in the first Avengers movie. Yeah,

773
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.320
<v Speaker 1>but even then he's mostly a tagline. He's mostly a punchline. Well,

774
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:57.519
<v Speaker 1>to be fair, in that one is the only one

775
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:00.559
<v Speaker 1>where he's a credible threats. The thing where they're on

776
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:03.599
<v Speaker 1>that you've seen the first amount, when they're on the

777
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:08.280
<v Speaker 1>what it's called the Helly Carrier, the ones probably the

778
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.639
<v Speaker 1>only scene in that film where you have any real tension.

779
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Is the scene where he hulks out and that he's

780
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.800
<v Speaker 1>attacking Black Widow, and it's shot like a horror movie

781
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:17.880
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, with lots of shadow and shit,

782
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and that feels tense because you get everyone's trying to

783
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:25.000
<v Speaker 1>calm him down, except Tony, who has a little ship

784
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:27.840
<v Speaker 1>head and he's like deliberately like he shocks him at

785
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:29.639
<v Speaker 1>one point, done it and he's like, what, I just

786
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 1>want to see what it looks like when you hook out,

787
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:35.119
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, well, you know that fits with Tony's

788
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:38.239
<v Speaker 1>character because he doesn't take anything seriously up to this point,

789
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.519
<v Speaker 1>and it fits when you've got the Hulk feels uncontrollable.

790
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.360
<v Speaker 1>Once you get to Age of Ultron, he starts feeling

791
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:48.559
<v Speaker 1>too controlled. Yes, because they even they bring in a

792
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 1>thing where Black Widow can get him to un hulk out.

793
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.519
<v Speaker 1>She has a rhyme that she says and she holds

794
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 1>a hand out to him and she says this rhyme

795
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.559
<v Speaker 1>and it makes the Hulk get all sleepy and revert

796
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:00.000
<v Speaker 1>back to Banner.

797
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:03.159
<v Speaker 2>So one of the things that I thought about this

798
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.719
<v Speaker 2>that something that is probably you know, a limitation of me.

799
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.719
<v Speaker 2>I guess I really hate CGI men slamming into each other,

800
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.559
<v Speaker 2>which is all you and now you're now going to

801
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.199
<v Speaker 2>get from this film. I thought there was a better

802
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.119
<v Speaker 2>way to do this practically. When I discussed it with you,

803
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 2>you said you can't really do that nowadays because people

804
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:25.239
<v Speaker 2>expect CGI, Studios will expect to use CGI, and nobody

805
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>wants to see you know what you're going to do

806
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.320
<v Speaker 2>with getting a man big enough. But for me, my

807
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:34.920
<v Speaker 2>thought was, you get a normal person to play Bruce Banner,

808
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.880
<v Speaker 2>you then get a much bigger person to be the Hulk,

809
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of like they used to do with Luthreigno, though

810
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:43.440
<v Speaker 2>you didn't quite work out there Luthreigno series is the

811
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.519
<v Speaker 2>reason you wouldn't do it this way, except I would

812
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.679
<v Speaker 2>change how you play it because a lot of cinematic

813
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.400
<v Speaker 2>techniques have come out since then. So you'd get big

814
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:55.960
<v Speaker 2>guys like get the Big Show or something from WW

815
00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Painting Green and have him as the Hulk.

816
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:01.159
<v Speaker 1>When the whole Batista.

817
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then what you do is all of your

818
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:08.039
<v Speaker 2>stuntmen for those scenes are actually shorter actors, so when

819
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:11.400
<v Speaker 2>they're in a shot together it looks more imposing. But

820
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:14.519
<v Speaker 2>what you then do to supplement. That is, when you

821
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.199
<v Speaker 2>need to have, say, another character who doesn't like a

822
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:19.920
<v Speaker 2>main character, you can't ensure that you hire any very

823
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:23.320
<v Speaker 2>short characters for all of your actors, for all your characters,

824
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.039
<v Speaker 2>you use the Lord of the Rings techniques. Yeah, where

825
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.440
<v Speaker 2>you force this perspective where as far as the camera sees,

826
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.280
<v Speaker 2>these two people are in the same shot together and

827
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.719
<v Speaker 2>one is huge and one is very small. But it's

828
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:38.400
<v Speaker 2>a trick of the camera.

829
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:40.639
<v Speaker 1>And studios won't stand for it. Now. Yeah, we can

830
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:42.400
<v Speaker 1>even see it with Lord of the Rings. Yeah, so

831
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:48.079
<v Speaker 1>New Line cinema are very accommodating of Peter Jackson. By

832
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.119
<v Speaker 1>the time he does the hobbit, it's not the same

833
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:56.719
<v Speaker 1>New Line cinema and they are not as accommodating. No CGI. Yeah,

834
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:00.000
<v Speaker 1>it's sad and it sucks because I don't get me wrong,

835
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:04.119
<v Speaker 1>I one hundred. If practical effects can be used, will

836
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.440
<v Speaker 1>always choose practical. I am a big fan of CGI.

837
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Should be used to enhance, not to create. As you know,

838
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:13.599
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about that a million times.

839
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:18.880
<v Speaker 2>But even if the CGI is slightly cheaper than doing

840
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:21.599
<v Speaker 2>the practical, the practical is still the best option. Not

841
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 2>just because I personally prefer it, but actually, in a

842
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.400
<v Speaker 2>long run, when it comes to your editing, et cetera,

843
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:29.400
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to worry about editing around CGI. It's

844
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:32.320
<v Speaker 2>all in the frame. And when it comes to restoring

845
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:35.840
<v Speaker 2>your footage for later releases, which might not be as

846
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.119
<v Speaker 2>big a deal now, but certainly when you're looking at

847
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.679
<v Speaker 2>doing DVD, Blu ray or whatever home video releases they

848
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 2>used to do. But actually with streaming it still matters.

849
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.519
<v Speaker 2>If you were to then do go right, we're going

850
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.679
<v Speaker 2>to do an eight K release of this film, you

851
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:53.639
<v Speaker 2>can't really without going back and redoing all the CGI.

852
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>But with the film negative stuff, stuff that you've actually shot,

853
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.519
<v Speaker 2>practically just go rescan the negative. It's still not cheap

854
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 2>and not easy, but it's a lot cheaper and a

855
00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 2>lot easier than redoing all your CGI. In that effect,

856
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.760
<v Speaker 2>your film is more timeless therefore will actually make you

857
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.760
<v Speaker 2>more money long term as a company then it will

858
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.400
<v Speaker 2>do using the CGI. But they don't think long term, unfortunately,

859
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 2>it's just what can we get the box office? Literally,

860
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:21.320
<v Speaker 2>nothing else matters, and.

861
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:23.239
<v Speaker 1>It's one of the reasons we've got the story issues

862
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about as well. Yes, Betty Ross never comes back.

863
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:30.000
<v Speaker 1>The leader never comes back in a Hulk movie. The

864
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.760
<v Speaker 1>reason we have these story issues is because they're only

865
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.000
<v Speaker 1>ever thinking short term, Yeah, what what? And this is

866
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:39.000
<v Speaker 1>a problem I've got with author, It's a problem I've

867
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 1>got with fucking doctor who lately is doctor who has

868
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.000
<v Speaker 1>become just about that. How do we how do we

869
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:48.800
<v Speaker 1>get memes from this episode? What can we put in

870
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:51.519
<v Speaker 1>it that will make the internet go crazy for a

871
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.360
<v Speaker 1>week so that everyone comes back and watch us next week.

872
00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:56.239
<v Speaker 1>And that's why you get bullshit in the new season

873
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 1>of Dot two where they're like, we're bringing omegaback, who's

874
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.880
<v Speaker 1>not been in it since like the seventies, And then

875
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:05.400
<v Speaker 1>it's not the Omega from the seventies. It's a big

876
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:10.079
<v Speaker 1>CGI baby that's on screen for literally, I think it's

877
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:14.559
<v Speaker 1>only thirty seconds, and you're like, you spent a whole

878
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:18.960
<v Speaker 1>episode building up to this and it lasts thirty seconds.

879
00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:21.880
<v Speaker 1>It is one of those things that is unfortunate that

880
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.519
<v Speaker 1>superhero movies have fallen into this space where they always

881
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 1>have to have a big CGI fight at the end,

882
00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and it hasn't aged as well. You know, you look

883
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:33.360
<v Speaker 1>at something like Sam Raimi's First Spider Man, and yes,

884
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:36.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to sit here and claim that that

885
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:38.880
<v Speaker 1>final fight between Spider Man and the Green Goblin is

886
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:44.559
<v Speaker 1>the smoothest thing ever. It's very clearly it's very obviously

887
00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:47.480
<v Speaker 1>wire working the way that wire work has that certain

888
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 1>look to it. But at least it's fucking real. You know,

889
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:53.880
<v Speaker 1>it's Willem defo, it's Toby maguire, this drama there, and

890
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:56.920
<v Speaker 1>fair enough, maybe you can't do that with the Hulk.

891
00:46:57.039 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's say, let's for a minute say it's not an

892
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 1>option to do it practice. There's still away. I still

893
00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:07.480
<v Speaker 1>believe that CGI done well can still there is no

894
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:10.440
<v Speaker 1>reason for this to feel as weightless as it does well.

895
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.199
<v Speaker 2>What's kind of interesting is that CGI fights in movies

896
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:18.199
<v Speaker 2>that are all CGI, that are not live action movies

897
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.679
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote, tend to do fight scenes better because for

898
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:24.360
<v Speaker 2>some reason there's this weird thing where they are restricting

899
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:29.760
<v Speaker 2>themselves to having to work with camera work, even if

900
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.480
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't really apply. This film has a lot of

901
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:34.800
<v Speaker 2>problems with that, Like the final fight between the roth

902
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:41.039
<v Speaker 2>Monster and Abomination, the roth Monster and the Hawk is shit.

903
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.519
<v Speaker 2>It's I'm not even gonna say, you know, it's not

904
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:46.960
<v Speaker 2>my jam it's literally the cheesy.

905
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Part of me liked a bit where the Hawk used

906
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:51.199
<v Speaker 1>half two halves of a car as boxing gloves. I

907
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, that is stupid, but I like it. No, no, no,

908
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.960
<v Speaker 1>that's not the main issue, because the thing is the

909
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.960
<v Speaker 1>problem is that at that point, yes, you get little

910
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.480
<v Speaker 1>bits like that which are OK, but this is at

911
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:05.159
<v Speaker 1>the point where it's still basically two invincible objects punching

912
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:08.079
<v Speaker 1>each other, which means nothing. Then you get to the

913
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 1>point where it's like, right now, one of them has

914
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.280
<v Speaker 1>to win, and it has to be the Hulk. So

915
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:16.000
<v Speaker 1>how does the Abomination fall? And fuck knows because I

916
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:17.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know the limits of either of these characters.

917
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:20.960
<v Speaker 2>So why why would the Hulk win? Why would the

918
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Abomination lose? And they don't fucking know, because clearly what

919
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:27.440
<v Speaker 2>they do is they've been punching and smashing the hell

920
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.599
<v Speaker 2>out of each other this entire time, nearly a scratch

921
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.320
<v Speaker 2>on either of them, and the Hulk just somehow just

922
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:34.880
<v Speaker 2>cuddles him to death or some shit.

923
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.239
<v Speaker 1>No, he wraps a chain around his neck and chokes

924
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:41.480
<v Speaker 1>him out. And to be if a thing can't breathe,

925
00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:44.480
<v Speaker 1>it falls asleep. That's you don't matter if you're invincible

926
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:46.719
<v Speaker 1>if you can't breathe, you can't get oxygen to your body,

927
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.119
<v Speaker 1>you fall asleep. But chain make any difference if this

928
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 1>is another punched with a car, But this is another

929
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:54.960
<v Speaker 1>where they drop the ball because it's not a hit,

930
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:58.119
<v Speaker 1>it's a constant pressure. But this is another bit where

931
00:48:58.119 --> 00:48:59.880
<v Speaker 1>they drop the ball because the whole thing here is

932
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the Hulk is clearly going to kill him and live.

933
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Tyler's like, don't kill him, and the Hawk makes that

934
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.159
<v Speaker 1>choice not to. But because the rage of the Hulk

935
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:13.039
<v Speaker 1>has felt so watered down in the rest of the film,

936
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:16.920
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't feel like that should be a monumental moment,

937
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.320
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't feel like one because it's just kind

938
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.679
<v Speaker 1>of like, well, yeah, the Hulk's kind of been mostly good.

939
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:26.000
<v Speaker 2>For all of this anyway, And he listened to her before,

940
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.039
<v Speaker 2>so why would I not believe she'd listened to he'd

941
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:28.679
<v Speaker 2>listen to her now?

942
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.360
<v Speaker 1>I did make a note if you ever noticed that

943
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:33.480
<v Speaker 1>it's a trope in character design. Whenever you have a

944
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 1>hero and villain who are wondering if you're about to

945
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.880
<v Speaker 1>menure to say that I was going to venture go okay,

946
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:40.039
<v Speaker 1>whenever you have a hero and villain who was supposed

947
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:42.280
<v Speaker 1>to be roughly the same thing. So these are both Hulks,

948
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 1>but one's evil. The evil one will always have spines.

949
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:49.400
<v Speaker 1>You ever notice that that character i've tim ross got

950
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:51.360
<v Speaker 1>all the spines off his back, just to be fair,

951
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 1>that's one bit that I was like, that is Nihley's

952
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.800
<v Speaker 1>when the Hawks fucking grabs the spine and sideways, I

953
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:57.440
<v Speaker 1>was cool.

954
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:00.280
<v Speaker 2>So we're kind of both on the same train of thought,

955
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:04.920
<v Speaker 2>but on slightly different tracks. So, yes, you're right when

956
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:07.400
<v Speaker 2>they do like an evil version of a Hulk, it's

957
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.920
<v Speaker 2>one with spikes. The other thing I mentioned might know

958
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.559
<v Speaker 2>was I've noticed that the Roth Monster's not wearing any

959
00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:17.559
<v Speaker 2>clothes and specifically has no wing wang.

960
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was a speeder in the comics. He has

961
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:28.119
<v Speaker 1>in the comics, if I remember right, he has like

962
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:31.400
<v Speaker 1>iguana frills as well, because when they brought him back

963
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:34.039
<v Speaker 1>in Shee Hulk, they gave him the iguana thrill frills.

964
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:38.199
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, put, I've noticed. It's not any wondering if

965
00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:40.360
<v Speaker 2>this is a mckismo thing where Hulk is better and

966
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>more of a man, because he might still have a

967
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:44.840
<v Speaker 2>cat right, because it's the case of he's still got

968
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:47.280
<v Speaker 2>his trousers on why would you have the Hulk without

969
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.639
<v Speaker 2>his trousers, like, because why has he got the trousers on?

970
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.480
<v Speaker 2>It's clearly to cover up the fact that there may

971
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:56.000
<v Speaker 2>be something you'll flappen. I never noticed, and it's like,

972
00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just like, but the Roth Monster doesn't keep

973
00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:02.159
<v Speaker 2>the trousers on, even though traditionally in the comics he does,

974
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:06.360
<v Speaker 2>so it's literally just to make Tim Ross's character less

975
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:06.880
<v Speaker 2>of a man.

976
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:09.559
<v Speaker 1>I did like Bruce saying goodbye and jumping out of

977
00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:11.559
<v Speaker 1>the plane, but I didn't like that they did a

978
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:14.559
<v Speaker 1>death fake out. He should have just hold. He should

979
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:17.079
<v Speaker 1>have just honked out on the way down. And my

980
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:19.679
<v Speaker 1>only other note, which is kind of a tongue in cheek.

981
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Though, the helicopter with Betty and William hurt and it

982
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:26.039
<v Speaker 2>crashes and every single person on board dies except for

983
00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Betty and William hurt. I just fucking plot armor for

984
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 2>those two.

985
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:32.760
<v Speaker 1>I did make a note here this is kind of

986
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:35.159
<v Speaker 1>a tongue in cheek, humorous one, but I find it

987
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:40.000
<v Speaker 1>funny that two massive Hulk monsters fighting somehow do less

988
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.840
<v Speaker 1>collateral damage than General's Odd and Superman in Man of Steel.

989
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:49.719
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, because they fucking level Metropolis. In Man of

990
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:50.559
<v Speaker 1>Steel they do.

991
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Indeed, we then get a cameo of Robert Danny Jr.

992
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.480
<v Speaker 2>A Stark Yeah, saying he's putting a team together. So

993
00:51:57.639 --> 00:51:59.239
<v Speaker 2>and that's how I put here. Did it come before

994
00:51:59.320 --> 00:51:59.599
<v Speaker 2>or after?

995
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Im? It's after, But it kind of contradicts iron Man

996
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:03.559
<v Speaker 1>two a little bit.

997
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I'm Man two. Yeah, because the Avengers isn't

998
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.760
<v Speaker 2>for another five years, yeah, and three years.

999
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:10.679
<v Speaker 1>So to be fair, irom Man one, the post credit

1000
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:12.440
<v Speaker 1>scene is Nick Fury saying I want to talk to

1001
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:13.960
<v Speaker 1>you about the Avengers initiative.

1002
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

1003
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Iron Man is then clearly coming to General Roth talking

1004
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.559
<v Speaker 1>of General Ross, talking about wanting to do a team.

1005
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:22.679
<v Speaker 1>But in iron Man two we find out Shield of

1006
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:26.320
<v Speaker 1>actually rejected Tony from the team because they've decided he's

1007
00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:29.400
<v Speaker 1>two unstable mentally. Right, It's a bit like, well, why

1008
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 1>was he the one going around recruiting people? Then?

1009
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:34.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, to be fair, he didn't say the Avengers, so

1010
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:36.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe he was trying to recruit for his own.

1011
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:38.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, if you don't want me, I'll get my

1012
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:44.360
<v Speaker 1>own the Iron Gang. But that brings us to the

1013
00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:46.559
<v Speaker 1>this is back when they only did one post credit

1014
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:49.639
<v Speaker 1>scene in Marvel movies as well, because, let me tell you,

1015
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.519
<v Speaker 1>at one point I think it's Guardians of the Galaxy

1016
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:57.039
<v Speaker 1>two has five post credit scenes just spread out throughout

1017
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:59.360
<v Speaker 1>the credits. It's like, James Gunn you all be I

1018
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:01.679
<v Speaker 1>love you, Jane Gone. I think you're a great filmmaker,

1019
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:07.079
<v Speaker 1>but you are being agreedious right now. Five post credit scenes? Yeah?

1020
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Fuck off?

1021
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah guy? Yeah, this film was boring, completely unengaging. I

1022
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:16.800
<v Speaker 2>don't recommend it, to be fair, this is kind of

1023
00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:19.760
<v Speaker 2>this is what I think of when someone goes, oh,

1024
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:20.960
<v Speaker 2>do you want to watch the new superhero?

1025
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:22.280
<v Speaker 1>No? Fuck off?

1026
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I think of this. If I'd seen this before we'd

1027
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:27.960
<v Speaker 2>watched iron Man, I wouldn't have wanted to watch iron Man.

1028
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:31.800
<v Speaker 2>So lucky for the mcu iro, Man came first because

1029
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I think that gave people enough to go,

1030
00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:37.119
<v Speaker 2>you know what, we'll give them another shot. And then

1031
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:39.920
<v Speaker 2>IMN two wasn't great, but at least it was better

1032
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:40.280
<v Speaker 2>than this.

1033
00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, this is the in the Infinity saga. Either this

1034
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:47.719
<v Speaker 1>is the worst one or Captain Marvel's the worst one.

1035
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Captain Marvel's pretty bad.

1036
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 2>I thought Captain Marvel was in phase two after the

1037
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Infinity War thing.

1038
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.000
<v Speaker 1>No, no, so Infinity Saga is the first three phases.

1039
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:00.840
<v Speaker 1>What Phase one, two, and three is the Infinity Saga.

1040
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.239
<v Speaker 2>I thought the first I thought the first thing was

1041
00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:07.360
<v Speaker 2>all the way up to endgame. Captain Marvel because she

1042
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.480
<v Speaker 2>makes a cameo inme. I haven't seen any of that.

1043
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Ship Captain Marvel came out between Infinity War and Endgame.

1044
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Although it's set in the nineties.

1045
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:17.119
<v Speaker 2>Can't imagine Captain Marvel being any good, not because of

1046
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:19.079
<v Speaker 2>its being a woman. I can't imagine it's any good

1047
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:20.760
<v Speaker 2>because I just imagine it's like this shit.

1048
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:24.440
<v Speaker 1>It's super still, Captain Marvel has the Superman problem. She

1049
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:27.719
<v Speaker 1>has no weaknesses and I hate Steel, so Woman of

1050
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Steel has ain't gonna.

1051
00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:29.159
<v Speaker 2>Do it for me.

1052
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:31.679
<v Speaker 1>They try they I don't know why they try and

1053
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:35.440
<v Speaker 1>do this. In the MCU, they're trying to puller who's

1054
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.159
<v Speaker 1>the real villain? Thing like, it's the British guy. It's

1055
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Jude Law. Judelaw's the villain. He's the only British guy

1056
00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:44.199
<v Speaker 1>in the cast. It's Judlaw. And then it is it

1057
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:46.679
<v Speaker 1>is Jude Law. And there's a bit that there's a

1058
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:50.360
<v Speaker 1>bit they do that is funny because it's different from

1059
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:55.119
<v Speaker 1>other superhero movies, but it's also unsatisfying because it denies

1060
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:58.320
<v Speaker 1>you a climactic battle sequence, right, which is she's got

1061
00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:03.159
<v Speaker 1>she's basically Superman, She's iNFiNiT powerful, and Jude Law is

1062
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:06.440
<v Speaker 1>basically just a normal guy. And there's a bit where

1063
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:08.480
<v Speaker 1>like when they're finally face to face and he's like,

1064
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:12.519
<v Speaker 1>come on, let's go one on one, no powers, just movie,

1065
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and Captain bobble Lich is like, no, annihilate sip. Right.

1066
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:18.760
<v Speaker 1>It's funny, yeah, because a lot of films have the

1067
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:22.320
<v Speaker 1>here I do the yeah go on? Like in Resident Evil,

1068
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:24.239
<v Speaker 1>for for God's sakes, when Crowser turns up with a

1069
00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:25.440
<v Speaker 1>knife and me I was just like, yeah, I'll put

1070
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:27.679
<v Speaker 1>my gun away and just fight with the Why you

1071
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:29.599
<v Speaker 1>just shoot the mother? Yeah?

1072
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Blazing Settlers does the same thing with the fingers, just

1073
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:37.039
<v Speaker 2>like you wouldn't shoot an I'm mad. So Cleveland Little

1074
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.239
<v Speaker 2>drops and goes, all right, we'll do this man and

1075
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.760
<v Speaker 2>man with fist over fist, and he goes, oh, I

1076
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.840
<v Speaker 2>just for remembered, I do have a gun.

1077
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Is it Raiders of the Lost Ark or Temple of

1078
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Doom where Indiana Jones there's a guy does a load

1079
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 1>of that fancy sword swinging Indiana, Jones shoots him.

1080
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is the first one raids the Lost Dark.

1081
00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:59.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that that apparently that was actually meant to be a.

1082
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Fight sequence, but food poisoning.

1083
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he had a dicky Tubby. He just went a

1084
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:05.280
<v Speaker 2>couple and you can see it in his face. That

1085
00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:08.559
<v Speaker 2>whole I can't be fucked. It justos the guy.

1086
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:12.519
<v Speaker 1>So looking back, this has some pros in the sense

1087
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:14.599
<v Speaker 1>that it feels more like an actual movie than some

1088
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:15.679
<v Speaker 1>of the later MCU.

1089
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:19.440
<v Speaker 2>It's only good in comparison to modern movie making.

1090
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's a bad sign of the state modern

1091
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.400
<v Speaker 1>movie making is in. Yeah.

1092
00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I mean the actual film itself is trash.

1093
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and obviously famously, Edward Norton does not return as

1094
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:36.159
<v Speaker 1>the whole. Do we know why creative differences.

1095
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:38.559
<v Speaker 2>With Marvel because of this film?

1096
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Edward, there's a reason Edward Norton is regarded

1097
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.039
<v Speaker 1>as a very good actor in yet has never ever

1098
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:48.880
<v Speaker 1>won an Oscar. I know he's famously difficult to work with.

1099
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, i'd heard that because I know he's He's played

1100
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.880
<v Speaker 2>on that in a couple of things where he's cameo

1101
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:55.480
<v Speaker 2>does himself, but as a really difficult to work with actor,

1102
00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:57.400
<v Speaker 2>So at least he's got a sense of humor about it,

1103
00:56:57.519 --> 00:56:57.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess.

1104
00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:01.760
<v Speaker 1>But he insists on having put in the script right.

1105
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:04.840
<v Speaker 1>So he did a rewrite of this movie, and then

1106
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Marvel rewrote it again and kept some of his stuff

1107
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:10.320
<v Speaker 1>and not some of his stuff. And I think that's

1108
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:12.119
<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons the tone is completely offen.

1109
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it kind of flip flops between being a Marvel

1110
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:17.280
<v Speaker 2>movie and being a drama, and it doesn't. It can't be.

1111
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:19.519
<v Speaker 2>The problem is, is you think that would be nice, Oh,

1112
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:23.559
<v Speaker 2>a dramatic Marvel movie, but it flip flops. It's not

1113
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:24.519
<v Speaker 2>a consistent time.

1114
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:29.840
<v Speaker 1>And I can't imagine Edward Norton fitting in once they

1115
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:33.079
<v Speaker 1>all get together as the Avengers. Yeah, I just can't

1116
00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:36.920
<v Speaker 1>imagine him fitting in to that. I don't think he

1117
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:40.079
<v Speaker 1>would have liked the way those movies are made where it's.

1118
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:43.719
<v Speaker 2>I imagine him just the Avengers. I can't imagine him

1119
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.239
<v Speaker 2>liking the way that any of that script was written.

1120
00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:48.360
<v Speaker 1>No, and at least that one was written, because as

1121
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:51.559
<v Speaker 1>we know, the later MCU movies, they start filming them

1122
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:56.960
<v Speaker 1>without scripts. Jesus, Yeah, Avengers Doomsday they started filming without

1123
00:57:56.960 --> 00:58:00.039
<v Speaker 1>a finished script. They're the first two acts written. But

1124
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand how they can do that when the

1125
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.159
<v Speaker 1>movie is going to be like what one hundred how many?

1126
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.039
<v Speaker 1>Multiple millions? It's the most expensive film ever made. It's

1127
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:09.199
<v Speaker 1>half a billion.

1128
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Dollars, So that you're spending half a billion dollars on

1129
00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:14.159
<v Speaker 2>a film and you're going in without the fucking.

1130
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Script because according to their algorithm, and to be fair,

1131
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:22.320
<v Speaker 1>the sales have so far shown them right, audiences don't care.

1132
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:28.039
<v Speaker 1>Paul W. S Anderson's bought a borring Resident Evil franchise

1133
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.639
<v Speaker 1>can make a billion dollars despite the fact that it's

1134
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:34.360
<v Speaker 1>all written by the same writers in Marveled at least Marvel.

1135
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Single film in the resident as a franchise, six films to.

1136
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Get to over a billion is still pretty good, though, Well,

1137
00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:45.159
<v Speaker 1>but my point is it's less than in each back

1138
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:48.280
<v Speaker 1>then though, and for the budget, what I would give

1139
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to get to it. But those films, at least the

1140
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Marvel films. Yeah, okay, you've got fifty different writers pulling

1141
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:58.760
<v Speaker 1>it in different directions. Those that's a six film series

1142
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.679
<v Speaker 1>all written by one man, and it can't even stick

1143
00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:04.760
<v Speaker 1>to its own internal continuity. Well, the virus ride up

1144
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.599
<v Speaker 1>the water try to pull the water the next one

1145
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:12.920
<v Speaker 1>out on a fucking bolt. Awful movies, honestly, like the

1146
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:16.760
<v Speaker 1>rest my level of rage for I listened to a

1147
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:20.360
<v Speaker 1>podcast the other day where someone had the opinion that

1148
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Monster Hunter wasn't a bad movie. I turned that podcast off.

1149
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh Jesus, and I know I've got some pretty bad

1150
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:31.159
<v Speaker 1>takes no, but that no, I will not stand for that.

1151
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.119
<v Speaker 2>For anyone who wants to know about Jamie and my opinions,

1152
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:36.440
<v Speaker 2>more on people like Paul W. S Anderson in the

1153
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:40.639
<v Speaker 2>video game space VGMP is available and we have covered

1154
00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:43.880
<v Speaker 2>all of Paul W. Sanderson's and all of Bowls movies

1155
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:49.880
<v Speaker 2>within that series. So now, yes, big irony, I know

1156
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:51.440
<v Speaker 2>this off topic, so you might want to cut it.

1157
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Ou Bowl has decided he's going to make a sequel

1158
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:57.000
<v Speaker 2>to the House of the Dead because Paul Anderson is

1159
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:01.039
<v Speaker 2>doing an official and he's in his video Cobbin. He

1160
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:03.679
<v Speaker 2>was like, we will call it Return to Zombie Island

1161
01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:05.880
<v Speaker 2>because we cannot call it House of the Dead because

1162
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:08.559
<v Speaker 2>some other idiot has the rights and they're going to

1163
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:12.119
<v Speaker 2>make a truly terrible movie. Bowl versus and I want

1164
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:14.559
<v Speaker 2>to see the fight. That's that's the new that's raging

1165
01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:17.840
<v Speaker 2>bowl to bowl versus Anderson. I want to fucking see

1166
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:18.440
<v Speaker 2>that film.

1167
01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:20.519
<v Speaker 1>So there you have it. That is the incredible. What

1168
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:22.039
<v Speaker 1>did you guys think about it? Do you guys think

1169
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:23.679
<v Speaker 1>it's one of the worst in the MCU or maybe

1170
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:26.079
<v Speaker 1>you rate it better? Please let us know. We love

1171
01:00:26.119 --> 01:00:29.079
<v Speaker 1>to get comments from you guys, and if you send

1172
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:32.599
<v Speaker 1>us some thoughtful emails about what you did or didn't

1173
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:33.960
<v Speaker 1>like about the film, maybe we'll read it out on

1174
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.400
<v Speaker 1>a future episode. Wouldn't that be great? Thank you very

1175
01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:39.079
<v Speaker 1>much for tuning in. You can catch new episodes of

1176
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Second Text Cinema every Thursday. As Rory said, you can

1177
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:44.760
<v Speaker 1>find the complete library of all six seasons of the

1178
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Video Game Movie podcast available on all good podcasting apps.

1179
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:52.519
<v Speaker 1>And in around May time, we will be returning with

1180
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:56.039
<v Speaker 1>the next set of episodes of our audio drama series Haunted,

1181
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:58.039
<v Speaker 1>So lots coming from in Parlor Films.

1182
01:00:58.079 --> 01:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>I hope people didn't find that we weren't a big

1183
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:01.639
<v Speaker 2>in this film. I don't want them to call this

1184
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:03.320
<v Speaker 2>episode the Incredible soulk.

1185
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:11.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm also accepting applications to replace Worri as a permanent

1186
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:15.239
<v Speaker 1>co host, So if you're interested in talking about film

1187
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:18.719
<v Speaker 1>every week hit me up. Thank you everyone, and we

1188
01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:22.119
<v Speaker 1>will see you next time. For more Second Take Cinema,