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So join me and the fun. 45 00:01:56.599 --> 00:01:59.319 Sign up now at Chumba Casino dot com. 46 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:01.599 No, They're imediately repod where every by lost the arm 47 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.560 Conditions eighteen Plus. 48 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.400 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 49 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.520 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 50 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:25.840 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 51 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:29.560 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 52 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:33.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 53 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:49.800 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Evening, September nineteen 54 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:54.280 fifty five. Neee Buchanan, a trustee at the State Prison 55 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:59.919 of Southern Michigan, was denied parole because of his trustee status. 56 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:03.639 He was assigned to pick up local trash from area 57 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.599 farms in a prison truck, which provided the perfect opportunity 58 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:11.800 to escape. Running out of gas near Stockbridge, Michigan, and 59 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.960 continuing on foot, he hid out inside the barn of 60 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.039 Howard and Myra Herrick, an elderly farm couple. 61 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:21.680 Buchanan was planning to steal their car to further his escape. 62 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.879 Surprised when Howard Herrick returned early, he killed the elderly 63 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.479 man by crushing his skull with a hand grinder. Hearing 64 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.639 the commotion in the barn, Myra Herrick came in and 65 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:37.039 was viciously bludgeoned to death next to her husband. Their 66 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:40.240 killer quickly hid their bodies under bales of hay and 67 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.919 Buchanan Hitchdike to Mason caught a cab to Lancing and 68 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.680 bought a bus ticket and fled to New York using 69 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:51.520 Howard Herrick's identity. Thinking Buchanan was still an area, fearful 70 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:56.280 residents armed themselves and looked upon strangers with suspicion. Ingham 71 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:59.960 County Sheriff William Willard Barnes led the hunt for the kis, 72 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:03.560 searching for months, but the investigation came to a dead end. 73 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:07.199 Harry Doesburg and Naghmer to the Herricks raised a three 74 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:10.039 thousand dollar reward, much of his own money, to find 75 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:13.639 the killer. Dosburg sent wanted posters across the country and 76 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:18.439 paid for wanted ads in various newspapers and magazines. Thirteen 77 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:22.000 months later, an informant in Baltimore recognized Buchanan from a 78 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:26.240 wanted ad in a magazine and turned him in. Buchanan 79 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.040 was quickly returned to Michigan, signed a confession, pled guilty, 80 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:33.079 and was sentenced to life in prison, all within a 81 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:37.600 seventy two hour period. Ten years after a sentence, Neelie 82 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:41.959 began appealing his conviction on numerous grounds, including police misconduct, 83 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:46.879 racial threats, and improper court proceedings. For twenty five years, 84 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.560 Neely had not been represented the book they were featuring 85 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.279 the seating as a Slayer Waits, The True Story of 86 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.560 a Michigan double Murder with my special guest, journalist and 87 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.319 author Rod Sadler, welcomed back to the program. Thank you 88 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.240 very much for agreeing to this interview. Rod Sadler. 89 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:06.839 Thank you, Dan. I appreciate you having me on here 90 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:08.600 and I'm looking forward to it. 91 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.920 It's always a pleasure. Thank you very much. To Hell, 92 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.240 I must go. It was last time. That was a 93 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:20.240 very fascinating book. Let's get to this story. How did 94 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.439 you come to want to or need to write A 95 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:25.319 Slayer Waits? 96 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:32.879 It actually began in the nineteen sixties, not necessarily my 97 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.720 desire to write about it, but I grew up in 98 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:42.560 Ingham County, Michigan in the nineteen sixties and we lived, oh, 99 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:48.360 I'm going to say, probably fifteen miles from Stockbridge, a 100 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.800 small town in the southwest corner I'm sorry, the southeast 101 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:55.720 corner of Ingham County, and I remember driving with my 102 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.519 folks and they pointed out a barn one day and 103 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.759 they said that's where that couple was killed. Well, you 104 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:03.720 know what, as a kid who was seven or eight 105 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:07.040 or nine years old, you hear about that, and I 106 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.480 just I glanced over at the barn, and I always 107 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:14.279 remembered that barn for some reason. And then I forgot 108 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.439 about it. I forgot about it for the rest of 109 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.720 my life until a couple of years ago. I'm a 110 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:23.639 consultant on the side, and I was chatting with an 111 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.480 attorney that I knew, and he happened to mention that 112 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.279 he had used to work for the Ingham County Prosecutor's 113 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.439 office in the nineteen seventies and that he had handled 114 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:37.680 an appeal for this particular killer. Well, I remembered the 115 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.800 case very vividly. I remember that day driving up fifty 116 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.439 two and my parents pointing out that barn, and he 117 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:50.920 began to go into all these points that the killer 118 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.199 had made in an attempt to appeal his conviction. And 119 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:58.319 I had just decided that I had already published my 120 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.040 first book, and since I had a contact there that 121 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.639 knew a lot about it, maybe this would be an 122 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:05.839 interesting second book. And so that's how it kind of 123 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:06.480 all started. 124 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.879 Now, tell us a little bit about this area that 125 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.160 we're talking about that's featured in this story described as 126 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.680 general area in southern Michigan. 127 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:27.079 Well Ingham County is located in the center of the state. 128 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.879 As you know, Michigan is shaped like a mitton, and 129 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.439 if you were in just about in the center of 130 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.199 the state, you would find Ingham County. It's the state 131 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.920 capital is Lansing, and that's located in the northwest corner 132 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:48.560 of Ingham County. There's some small towns around the county 133 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:55.240 and villages. On the western side. You have Mason, which 134 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.319 is is actually the county seat. I misspoke myself. Mason 135 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:02.639 is the county seat, but the circuit court for Ingham 136 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:07.279 County is both in Mason and Lancing. Both. There's a 137 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:12.959 small town south of that called Leslie. Along the center 138 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.279 of the county is Williamstown, and then along the east 139 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.079 side of the county is a small town called Webberville. 140 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.279 And then if you go to the southeastern corner of 141 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:25.360 the county there's a small town called Stockbridge. These small 142 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:31.560 towns in nineteen fifty five, as you can imagine if 143 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.279 you're older, I guess the best way to describe it, 144 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:37.480 and I was trying to think of a way to 145 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.840 describe it on the way in here tonight, if you 146 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.240 can think of the town of Mayberry. You know, life 147 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.440 was or a lot easier back then, or seemed that 148 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.799 way anyway to those of us nowadays. But deals were 149 00:08:52.840 --> 00:09:00.440 made on handshakes, Strangers were welcomed with open arms, left 150 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:07.360 their doors unlocked. You know, Families got together for picnics 151 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.720 and the whole communities got together for picnics and Sunday dinners, 152 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.519 and it was just it was a lot. It was 153 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:18.000 a lot easier time back then, and Ingham County was 154 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:23.799 no exception, nor was Stockbridge. It was just an easy 155 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:29.279 way of life back then. And you know, the country 156 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:33.639 was recovering from World War Two and the Korean War, 157 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.080 the economy was booming. It was just really a good 158 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.919 time to be alive. On the flip side of that, 159 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.399 there was also the civil rights movement that was just starting, 160 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:52.480 and the book touches on that to some degree. But 161 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.720 all in all, Ingham County was a nice place to 162 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:57.960 grow up, a nice place to live back in nineteen 163 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.519 fifty five. 164 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:04.519 Now, let's talk about the character, the main character in 165 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.000 this story, Neee Buchanan, and you talk about, as you 166 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:14.080 do in the book, his father Porter and his mother, Gladys, 167 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.960 and he's one of seven children. He's the first child. 168 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.000 So tell us about his life before we get to 169 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.440 his teen life, where it seems things go off the rail. 170 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:27.080 But let's talk about his early life and what his 171 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.799 family life was characterized by. Tell us a little bit 172 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:30.159 about that. 173 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.000 You know, his early life. There wasn't a whole lot 174 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.679 of information available on that. I will tell you that 175 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:44.039 he was born in Alabama. I suspect that his family 176 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:50.440 was lower income, and it didn't take very long. By 177 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:55.200 the age of I want to say, six or seven 178 00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:00.799 years old, they had already moved to Michigan. They had 179 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.000 at one point lived down in Monroe, which is along 180 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:11.360 the state line with Ohio, and they subsequently ended up 181 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.039 in the town of Flint. I'm sure you're familiar with 182 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.519 the Flint water crisis right now, but that's where they 183 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:27.399 ended up. And he was well liked by the neighbors, 184 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:32.720 by the people that he grew up with in that area. 185 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.120 All of his neighbors liked him. But he eventually he 186 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.480 got into trouble at a young age and it started, 187 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.840 you know, with small thefts and things like that, even 188 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.600 at a young age. Before he became a teenager, and 189 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.600 that's when that's when his life really took a turn. 190 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.679 And I think that's really when it all began. 191 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.840 You talk about him being deemed incorrigible at fifteen after 192 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.200 assaulting his father, and he went to a place that 193 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.679 was first called the Industrial School for Boys, later boys 194 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:17.480 Vocational School. He arrived there in nineteen forty. Describe, as 195 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:23.080 you do, the conditions at this school, the. 196 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:28.320 Conditions at the Boys' Vocational Training School, or whatever you 197 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:32.639 choose to call it, because the names changed quite frequently, 198 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.759 But that actually was built in the eighteen hundreds, and 199 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:46.039 it was essentially a correctional institution for a young men. 200 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:52.279 It actually began as a co ed facility back in 201 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:58.120 the eighteen hundreds, but quickly turned to males only. The 202 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:04.679 kids lived in dorms, were small dorms scattered around the campus, 203 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:10.120 if you will. It really resembled like a large church 204 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:15.840 or big business building, if you will. It's large brick 205 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:21.159 building and had these small cottages all around. And each 206 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:26.080 day the kids went through a regimented routine, and that 207 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:35.360 included calisthenics. It included marching three times a day, in formation, 208 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:42.879 it included classroom sessions. The kids were given specific jobs 209 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:49.159 to do. And beyond that, the troubled kids, those that 210 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.120 didn't go along with the program were punished in one 211 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.159 way or another. And the one that sticks out the 212 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:03.080 most to me is they were forced to stand on 213 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:08.879 a line for hours on end, and that was a 214 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:14.799 sort of punishment. They had a cabin number five, I 215 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:21.519 believe it was, that was used specifically for punishment, and 216 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.879 those were the severe cases. A lot of times the 217 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.799 kids that ended up in number five, as they called it, 218 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:36.960 would end up trying to burn mattresses or causing damage 219 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:43.440 to the building, or screaming, yelling, assaulted behavior, things like that. 220 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:49.279 So that was kind of the the atmosphere, if you will, 221 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:52.440 around the Boys Vocational Training School. It was actually located 222 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:59.039 in Lansing. It was located on Pennsylvania near Shiawashie Street. 223 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.840 There was a b facility. Even into the nineteen seventies 224 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:08.080 when it was still open, the Lansing Police Department would 225 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:13.960 frequently get calls of runaways from that particular facility until 226 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:19.440 it was eventually closed. There was a report issued back 227 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:22.759 in the nineteen forties, actually while Buchanan was still there, 228 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.879 that said all of the types of punishment that were 229 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:32.600 going on there needed to stop. That wasn't the way 230 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:37.039 that that facility was intended. And it was shortly thereafter 231 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:40.480 that Buchanan got out of there. But I don't know 232 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.039 if that sets the stage well enough, but I don't 233 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:44.879 think it was a very pleasant place to be. 234 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.440 You talk about that he was released in a couple 235 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:59.840 of years, and what happens is that he's soon after 236 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.720 got seven more charges. So how does his tell us 237 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:09.639 what he does to avoid these charges and further incarceration. 238 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:14.039 What does he say? Well, he got out, and you 239 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.519 have to understand that the intention of the of the 240 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:24.039 boys' vocational Training school was for the child to be 241 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.799 rehabilitated to the point where he could be returned into society. 242 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:36.879 And so when Neely was eventually released, he began to 243 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.200 get in trouble again, and he eventually joined the service 244 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.559 to avoid prosecution or to avoid jail time. And so 245 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:51.159 he joined the service, and during World War Two he 246 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:55.639 served over in Europe, and he actually drove an ammunition 247 00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:00.840 truck over in Europe for two or three years, and 248 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:05.319 he was released from the Army, had an honorable discharge, 249 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.799 and came back to the States. He had met his 250 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.319 wife while he was in the army and was married 251 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:18.920 and came back. They moved to the Detroit area and 252 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:25.559 he began trying to support her and ended up getting 253 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:26.559 back into trouble again. 254 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.279 You talk about the kind of trouble that he got in. 255 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.240 If we go just slightly backwards, what he does is 256 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.599 he has to rejoin a military after three years in 257 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.039 a military because he's convicted of peeping tom offenses. 258 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:47.000 Yeah, he was. He was convicted of being a peeping tom. 259 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:52.519 There was I think there was some theft charges in there, 260 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:56.039 and I think back then they based it a lot 261 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:01.720 also on maybe his juvenile record too. The assaulted behavior 262 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:06.480 toward his father, the petty thefts, the driving without a 263 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.119 driver's license, things like that got to the point where 264 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.599 they said, look, you either rejoined the military or you're 265 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:17.640 going back to jail. And so he did rejoin the military. 266 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.400 Now you talk about he got married and met his 267 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.920 wife in nineteen forty six and then nineteen forty ninety 268 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.319 married Jeannette, And in nineteen fifty two he's convicted of 269 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.519 armed robbery two to four years twelve dollars from a 270 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.759 cabby and he'd just been laid off. And you say, 271 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.680 that at this age, twenty eight years old, two hundred 272 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.640 and ten pound auto mechanic started his sentence and his wife, 273 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.079 Jeannette said, see you later. That's right. 274 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.240 She did not, at least according to the records that 275 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:57.240 I found, she did not communicate with him once he 276 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:03.480 was convicted of that armed robbery. He had been fired 277 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:12.000 from a job as a window washer, and honestly, I 278 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.079 honestly believe he was probably trying to get money for 279 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:19.240 his family. But he did an arm robbery of a 280 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:24.039 cab driver in the town of Inkster, Michigan, down by Detroit, 281 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:29.960 and he was quickly convicted, and he was he was 282 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.680 sentenced to the State Prison of Southern Michigan which is 283 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:38.920 today known as Jackson, which is Jackson Prison, which is 284 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:44.240 the world's largest walled institution. And it's not a very 285 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:49.240 nice place to be. And so when he got sentenced 286 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:56.200 to prison, he did his time, and he got paroled. 287 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:02.440 He was allowed out on parole, and it was shortly 288 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.279 after his release on parole that he chose to break 289 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:13.240 into a Chevy dealership called Funston Chevrolet in Detroit, and 290 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.799 he was quickly caught. And I have to admit, I 291 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:18.880 don't know if he was caught inside the building. But 292 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:23.759 he was caught immediately, and he knew he was going 293 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.799 back to prison. He knew that he'd have to go 294 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.359 back before judge and that the judge wouldn't be happy 295 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.079 because he was out on parole at the time. And 296 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.160 the judge quickly sentenced him to one to fifteen years 297 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:42.640 in prison for the break in at Funston Chevrolet and 298 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.599 said at the same time that when he completed that 299 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.240 he should complete his serving his sentence for the armed 300 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.079 robbery and inkster. 301 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.240 Also Judy was boring Hello. 302 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.200 Then Judy discovered jumba Casino dot com. 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But to him, he figured, Hey, 313 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.440 if I watch my p's and q's, if I do 314 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:35.359 what I'm told, maybe I can get paroled again. And 315 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:38.680 that's what his plan was to get parole the second time. 316 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.839 Now, he did everything as you are alluding to. He 317 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.440 was a model prisoner. He did everything he possibly could 318 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:51.440 to stay out of the way and not get any 319 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:56.480 negative attention. And I guess planned as he knew that 320 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.920 you have to to for parole to be eligible for parole. 321 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.880 So tell us about the parole hearing and its result. 322 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.720 Well, what had happened was he figured he could he 323 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.960 could do his time as soon as he could. As 324 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.880 soon as he would be eligible for parole, he would 325 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:17.839 apply for it, and he would he would likely get 326 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:22.079 a parole hearing. Well, he had only been serving about 327 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:27.240 ten months into his second prison sentence and he was allowed, 328 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:33.279 applied for and was given a parole hearing. He didn't 329 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.559 know what to expect in that parole hearing, and so 330 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:41.160 he went in before the parole board and they determined 331 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.920 that it was just too simply too soon for him. 332 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.839 He'd only been back in prison for ten months, he 333 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:51.799 had been paroled before and had broke done a break in, 334 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.799 and so they decided, no, you need this to spend 335 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.160 a little bit more time, and so they said, your 336 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.440 parole is denied, and they told him that he would 337 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:07.480 not be able to reapply for parole for at least 338 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:16.160 two years. This occurred on September. It was late August, 339 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:22.279 or like September one, nineteen fifty five. It was literally 340 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.279 two days before he ended up escaping from the prison. 341 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.480 He had already been given in that short ten months 342 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.759 that he'd been back in prison, he had already earned 343 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:36.680 trustee status, which allowed him to be housed outside the 344 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:42.920 prison walls and to do menial tasks. Go in this case, 345 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.359 he was allowed to use a prison truck go around 346 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.720 to the local farms and pick up garbage from the 347 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.680 local farms, and then he would bring that back to 348 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.000 the prison and that would be given to the hogs 349 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:02.160 that the prisoners raised. Jackson Prison or the State Prison 350 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.240 of Southern Michigan at that time, really it was a 351 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:09.960 city within itself. They grew their own produce, they raised 352 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.279 their own farm animals, they had wood shops things like that, 353 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.480 So it really was a city within itself. And the 354 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.640 whole purpose of Neely Buchanan being allowed out as a 355 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.240 parole to pick up the trash was simply to bring 356 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.640 it back and it would be fed to the hogs 357 00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:29.559 and the livestock that they were raising within the prison. 358 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.319 Now you talk about the history of escapes at this prison, 359 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.359 we won't go into some of the more sensational ones, 360 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:46.400 but tell us about just its ability to secure its inmates, 361 00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:48.920 its track record on that in its history. 362 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:53.160 You know, I didn't find a whole lot of information 363 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.359 on that. That that I did find I garnered from 364 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.880 the former director of the Michigan Department of Correction, a 365 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.400 guy by the name of Perry Johnson, who wrote an 366 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.640 outstanding book called Jackson, The Rise and Fall of the 367 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.400 World's Largest Prison. He talks briefly in his book, and 368 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.640 we had lunch together and he shared some of the 369 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:18.720 escape stories with me. But it was very, very difficult 370 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:24.079 back then. It seemed like to keep track of the prisoners. 371 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:29.279 It seemed that there was frequently walkaways. They were very 372 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:33.799 creative and how they escaped somewhat hide in crates and 373 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:38.599 boxes and you know, be carried out on trucks. Some 374 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:43.119 of them walk crawled through prisons. A couple of them 375 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:47.359 actually took over a guard tower and actually ended up 376 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.680 in a shootout with the prison guards. Prior to this, 377 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:55.920 and that it seemed as if, at least in the 378 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.839 communities around Jackson, that the local residents were always calling 379 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:07.440 in about escapees. The press was always talking about the 380 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.759 escapees from the prison, and it just didn't seem that 381 00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:13.039 a lot was being done about that at the time, 382 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:18.000 and that became a real issue, especially after the murders 383 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:19.240 of Howard and Myra Herrick. 384 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.720 Now talk about the plan that Neely Buchanan has to 385 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:33.039 escape and how he does it, and tell us then 386 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.759 a little bit about Howard and Myra Herrick and in 387 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.480 their little place of Stockbridge Township. 388 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:46.960 Well, Neely decided that he would have no part of 389 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:50.359 the parole Board's decision that he would have to wait 390 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:55.400 two years. He wanted to see his family. And the 391 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.359 only reason that I know that is I had the 392 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:04.279 opportunity to interview his appellet attorney, and we'll get into 393 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.440 that a little bit later in the interview, but who 394 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:11.880 was actually still practicing law, and he shared a lot 395 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.519 of information with me that he was allowed to. But 396 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.279 Neely wanted to get back with his family. He missed 397 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.759 his wife, and he had two little girls by that time, 398 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.960 and they were very very young. I think one was 399 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.519 the oldest was three at the time, and the youngest 400 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:33.680 was probably born either just before he went back to 401 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:40.000