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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Fredgreen of golf Smarter with our sixth

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installment of spring Back into Golf Season with the late

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Tony Manzoni. This episode was part two of our conversation

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originally number four hundred and nine for members only from

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November twenty thirteen. His book The Loss Fundamental is available

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on Amazon, and his DVD, which we converted to a

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private link online, is also available when you write to me.

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For the most comprehensive information ever collected on Tony, please

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go to golfsmarter dot com and if you'd like access

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to the video, please write to me directly golf Smarter

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podcast at gmail dot com or click on the Heyfred

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button when you visit golfsmarter dot com.

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Speaker 2: For members only. Golf Smarter number four hundred and nine,

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published on November five, twenty thirteen. A good Golfer's Arms

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never passed the Body with Tony Manzoni. This is golf Smarter.

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Welcome back to golf Smarter for members only.

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Speaker 1: Tony.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Fred, Thank you again for sticking around and

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recording forget the recording, for sticking around and answering more

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of my questions.

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Speaker 3: I just love it. Fred.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's very kind of you. There's many things that

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you said in our last conversation that I want to

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bring back and get more detail from you out of that.

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Like when you talked about being under pressure and hooking

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the ball. You said, when you were playing competitively when

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you were young, whenever you were under pressure, you would

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hook the ball. Now forty to fifty years later and

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you look back on that, do you know what that was?

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Speaker 3: Sure? I know what it was. As I got into

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learning to be more of a connected rotating or having

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a connected rotating swing, I realized that the moving of

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the of the left arm the right arm for that matter,

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but to the left round when you go back in

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the back swing, no matter how you take it back

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to your left round goes somewhat across your chest, okay, and

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it connects somewhere near the left arm pit and the

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right arm pit. So that's why you see a lot

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of tour players will put a towel across their chest

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and then put their arms on the top of the

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toe and hit shots that way. What they're doing, you know,

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it's it's restrictive in a way, but they're teaching themselves

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that the body moves the arms, the arms will move

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off the body and then back on the body. It's

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not to say that you can't do that, and there

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have been some good players that did that, but I

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don't think they had very long careers. Without naming a

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lot of guys, there's a lot of guys on the

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senior tour now that can't play a lit that were

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champions on the regular tour, and it's because their game

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was based on disconnecting and connecting, swaying to the right

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and swaying to the left and so forth. But in

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my swing, what I realize is that when my arms

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get to impact before my left side is clear, then

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my because the head is hairier than the handle. If

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you swing the arms away from the body and just

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swing a golf club, you'll see that the club head

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turns over prior to impact because because of the weight,

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the weight of the handle way to the head. The

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head weight will roll the clubhead. So these people that

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try to teach people to roll the clubhead, if you

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just swing your arms ahead of your body, it's gonna roll.

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If I want to hook a ball around a corner,

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I just keep my back of the target and throw

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my arm forward and that clubcase is closed. A foot

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from the ball, so I'm gonna I'm gonna snipe of it. Okay,

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well that's what I did under pressure, because under pressure

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we all get a little fast on the down. Can't

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help it. And I didn't realize that the faster my

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arms went, the slower my body went. So they didn't

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correspond and they won't. You throw your arms ahead of

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your body, and there's a saying the good golfer's arms

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never passed the body, never passed the body. And you say,

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wait a minute, I see the club, but it's not

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because if you follow the turning of the bottom, the

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club is standing in front of the body, but it's

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not going past it. So this is how it works,

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real simple. You stand up to the ball. I like

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you to set up sixty forty. You take the club back.

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It goes across your chest and it connects somewhere high

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on the left tectoral muscle. Okay, when you get to

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the top, instead of letting the arms come free of

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the body and pulling the arms down, keep the position

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that you have at the top and rotate your chest area.

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And now I'm not gonna say hips, because if you're

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on that left side, you don't have to throw your

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legs first or any of that craziness. Unwind which wound up.

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Unwind your chest and shoulders around your pivot leg, pulling

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your arm through, and if you'll unwind properly, you'll be

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unwinding to the left, just like on the backswing you

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had to unwind to the right. So when you unwind,

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your body's going to turn to the left. So when

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you finish your golf swing, your right shoulder should pointing

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at the target. The center of your chest should be

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pointing quite a bit left of the target. And if

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you watch the tour ladies or men's you'll see that

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that's how most of the players are finishing. No one's

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jilted back with high hands. Everything is around because players

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are finding that's a more effective way to play. So

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when we're connected, and and I mentioned that at the

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right arm, sure, because the right arm can't come loose

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and go out away from the body on the downswing

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because the elbow will be out of position. So that

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closed armpit of the right side is just as important

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as a closed armpit on the left side. So with

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both of them closed, the right with the right arm

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does in the backswing is you turn the right arm

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folds to a position and that's and that's your position.

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But that's how you get the club back. You don't

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do it with your wrist cock. You do the arm fold, okay,

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and it sets the wrist so that the club head

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or the chef, the shaft in your left arm four

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form kind of an l position. Okay, we want to

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be position. That's too much risk. We want this elow

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position the club. Your back is to the target. The

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club looks three quarters and if you look at the

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tour today, you'll see most everybody like that. You don't

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see that past parallel look except for a few out there.

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And they have one commonality. They get wild with the driver.

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They don't know if it's going right or left under pressure. Okay,

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the ones that are compact, they're popping it in the

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center all the time. Louis lusehavn just a bunch of

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them that are rotators. But anyway, so we're at the

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top of the swing. The left arm is connected high

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in the pectoral the right arm you can be holding

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a handkerchief under the armpit. The elbow is not touching

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the bout it just the armpit is closed. You just

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take that and you rotate to the left around the

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pivot leg, which is your left leg if you're right handed,

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and you just keep rotating and the club comes last.

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And it's kind of like a hockey player. That the

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action of a hockey player with a stick to a puck.

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It's a one piece action. It's not a throw of

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the arms, is a rotation of the body. On my video,

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you can see that little exercise I do that makes

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you instantly feel this. And if there's any one thing

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that you must do, it's fats. And you know, Ben

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Hogan said, you take all your natural instincts and do

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the opposite, you'll have a pretty good golf swing. And

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he's absolutely right, because when the ball is down on

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the ground and we've got the club in our hands,

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the tendency for us is to hit down on that

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golf ball to throw those arms. And we've been told

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hit down on the ball. If you have the club,

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let's say a shoal or heighth, and you swing it

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to the other side, the club has to come down

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to go up, so there's no need to try to

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hit down because all you're going to do is you're

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going to great tension, and you're going and you're going

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to get steeper than you should. The swing has a

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shape to it. It's it's kind of a U shape,

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so there is a bottom to it, but you don't

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need to do anything to get there. It has to

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get there for it to go back up on the

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other side. So I never advocate hitting down on a

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golf ball because then you're thinking about impact too much.

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And then what we get into anticipating impact, which causes

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a tension. And that's why all the beginners. You see

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beginners top the ball and the guy says, you looked up, okay,

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And then you got their faces glued to the ground

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and glued to the ball, and they still top it

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that you looked up. That's such a bunch of beloging.

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It's just you tighten up. And so when you anticipate impact,

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you're grabbing that handle tighter, you're getting ready to hit something. Okay.

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That shortens the muscle, pulls the club to the to

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the center or top of the ball, and you roll

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it on the ground. So when we're playing golf, and

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as I teach all my students, I'm teaching you where

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your body is a relationship with that golf ball on

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the back swinging on the through swing, and that body

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has to be on the ball on the coil, and

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then the whole right side goes past the ball on

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the through swing and the ball is in the way

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of that action. If you focus on that back of

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that ball or hit down on that ball, try to

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keep your head down on that ball. You don't hit

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a lot of shots behind the ball because when we start,

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when we put that golf club behind the ball, if

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we bring it right back that spot, we're going to

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go divot ball, and we don't want to do that.

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We want to go ball divt. So there has to

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be a forward and is somewhere in that motion to

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hit the ball first and then take the divot. That's

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the through motion. So when for all of you out

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there that hit the ball thin or hit behind it,

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that's because you are behind it. You're not supposed to

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be behind it when you hit it. It's supposed to

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be moving through it. You're supposed to be on the

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left side. So don't buy into that crap here all

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the time. Stay behind it, keep your head back behind it.

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That's nuts. There's no sport that you do that you

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hit a tennis ball, you move forward. You throw a punch,

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you move forward. You throw a baseball, you move forward.

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You got to move forward. You got to move through

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it with a Now I'm not saying that your heads

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go way forward, but that's not the golf sing. If

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you rotate past that golf ball, that club has come

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and last, and it's going to hit the ball with

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all the force of your core. When you try to

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stay behind the ball, all you're using assuming your arms

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forward of your body, which is the worst thing you

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can do if you're going to try to not only

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hit it far, but hit it straight.

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Speaker 2: The golf swing is supposedly a circular like if you draw,

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If you follow the club head around, it's a circle

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correct around your body.

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Speaker 3: It's a rotational it's a rotational move. That's the only

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way that our body moves. When you walk, you rotates,

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so it's a rotation live in. Rotation doesn't mean straight

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back and straight through. That's why when people say take

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the club straight back, you know that's really not that's

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really not correct. Because the body's turning, the club has

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to stay in front of you relative to where the

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body is, So when the body's turning if the club's

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in front of you, but it'll be inside the line

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of the It'll be inside the ball line. Is it

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must be. You can't take the club back on the

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ball line and swing it down the ball line. And

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I hear that all the time. Oh yeah, you kept

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that club going right down the ball, lie Boloni. You

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can't do that. The club the toll has to be

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turning because you're turning. Okay, you got to trap that

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golf ball. The more you push that club down the line,

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than what's going to happen just out of the construction

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of the club the neck, because that's where the shaft is.

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The neck is going to lead that club and the

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toad is going to be back and you're going to

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hit everything right, you know, or slice the ball, and

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the blade's going to open up. The more you push

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it straight back at the target, the more the blade

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is can open up. That club has to come back.

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You know. The path of the swing is from square,

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It goes inside, back to square, back to inside. So

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that's the shape of the golf swing, and that's that's

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what your body is doing. It's like a hub and

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a spoke. Your body is rotating and the club is

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rotating relative to what your body's doing. That's why good

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players connect the arms of the body, and the arms

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move where the body takes them. They're not trying to

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take the club back and put it in a position

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because it's then it becomes disconnected to the body and

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then they've got to re rout the arms back to

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where the elbow hits that inside of the hip area

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to hit the golf ball. Oh well, that can do

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that on a consistent basis. Am I making you crazy? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: Am I making you crazy? Uh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. There's so much going on right now in

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my head. It's like there's.

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Speaker 3: If I if you were in front of me and

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I set you up and you had some idea of

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the golf thing you've been playing a while, Okay, but

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you know I slice everything, all right, okay everything or whatever.

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I show you that when your arms go three of

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the body on the downs and the club is either

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going to roll over or you're going to hang on

257
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to it and it's going to stay open. And that's

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why you can get up and hook one ball and

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then you guard the next one and.

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Speaker 2: You pull it. Yeah. So when when you're when you're

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addressing the ball, and you're you're setting up with the

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ball with the club face. You're look, you're staring at

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the ball. Your club face is sitting just behind it

264
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when you're coming So, but when you come through on

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your swing, that is not the base of your swing, right,

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that's the base of it would be in front of

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the ball, right, the bottom part of yours, the bottom

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part of the swing would be. You know, when you're

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falling through, because you want to hit the ball and

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then hit the ground. Do you want to make the

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divot after you hit the ball.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Well, it's that turning through impact that brings the

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club so that the ball is being struck on the

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down swing, so it hits the ball, hits the turf

275
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when you're in the proper position, just prior to impact. Okay,

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the club is coming down, it strikes the ball, and

277
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it takes a little bit of divot when you get

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behind the ball, when you have too much weight on

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the right side. It is trying to hit the golf ball.

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You're going to come down in behind the ball. You're

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going to bring the club kinda where you have it

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to start with, so you're going to go div it ball.

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And that's how most people hit it. They take real

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deep dits, and even when they hit a good shot,

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they still hit them a little flabby because they're in

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the wrong position. They're behind the golf ball. If you

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look at a picture at impact of a good player,

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you'll see that his chest area is not in the

289
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same position he was at a dress. Like some people

290
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try to say, get back to the dress. His left

291
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side is open, it's turned to open, okay, and the

292
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right side is now driving past the golf ball. If

293
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you look at it you want to see a great swing,

294
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Look at anakis or instant. That girl had more birdies

295
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of two and three inches because she hit is so

296
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dead at the hole because she was turning towards the

297
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target and that arms were being pulled, so she was

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trapping that club dead square. So she unwolmed properly. The

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ball went right where she unwelmed to. And that's what

300
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we're looking for to learn to hit the ball without

301
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a lot of side spin. Now, when I want to

302
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cut it or draw it, I do it by memory.

303
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I just set up to the ball and feel like

304
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I'm going to do it. But there is a process

305
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of doing it that I practiced for a lot of

306
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hours as a young man, but I primarily hit the

307
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ball with very little movement on it, especially with my irons.

308
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Because of this action, I could remain in the past.

309
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To hit it near the pin, I had to aim

310
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at a club or two to the right of the

311
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of the green and draw it in. I don't do

312
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that anymore. I can. I can got pin hunting because

313
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of this action. I know. I'm not gonna put very

314
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much side spin on the ball. Side's beIN comes from

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the club face closing and opening and impact. That's all

316
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it is. I mean, it's not a big secret. So

317
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when you swing a free arm swing, that club is

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going to roll. I mean, anybody that's listening to me,

319
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you know, I'll just take a golf club out and

320
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swing it with your arms a little bit away from you,

321
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and you see that the weight of the club will

322
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turn the club over, and it's going to turn it

323
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over generally before you hit the golf ball. And then

324
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the next time, because you're scared of death that's gonna happen,

325
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you're gonna hang on to it tight, so you're gonna

326
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hold the blade open. So neither one of them are

327
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any good. You can't come off. So you've got to

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have a golf swing that if it's it's tight as

329
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heck and you got trouble right and trouble left, that

330
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you can get up there and free swinging and know

331
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absolutely no that you're not going to touch either bad area,

332
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that you're going to carve it into the into the

333
00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,559
free into the fairway one way or another. You're gonna

334
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,480
power slice it or a soft draw, but you're gonna

335
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put it in the fairway. And I can still do that.

336
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I just can't, you know, I just can't hit it

337
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far enough to really really compete. If they put me

338
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up on that Ladies teas or or old iyed teas,

339
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I'll play with anybody.

340
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Speaker 2: You just told me in the last episode that you're

341
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hitting the ball to sixty five on your drives.

342
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Speaker 3: What do you mean, Yeah, that's short compared to what

343
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people hit it now.

344
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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm well, yeah, yeah, if you're playing.

345
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Speaker 3: With l they played blue cheese, I play white cheese,

346
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and so I'm I'm at least a little bit up

347
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with them, or sometimes it will past them with the drive.

348
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You know, when I created the Mixed Team Championship that

349
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was on television for what sixty years. What we did

350
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is we we figured out what women would need. Professional

351
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,879
women would need to compete against men. They need seventy

352
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five yards because they not only needed distance on the drive,

353
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but they needed on the second shot so that they

354
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could hit into a par four a drive in seven

355
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,279
or eight iron, because most men are hitting those kind

356
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of clubs. Prior to that, Prior to that, the gals

357
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were playing the club. The course is so long that

358
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no one was reaching par fives and two, and they

359
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:23,160
were hitting long irons into par fours. And when we

360
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came up with this concept, this is many many years ago,

361
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that tournament kind of changed the way the girls perceived

362
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,480
the golf course should be because a hard liner said, no, no,

363
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,319
you're making it too easy. And I said, look, men

364
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,359
are shooting nineteen or twenty hunder par every tournament the

365
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,319
winners are, and you're shooting six and seven. The perception

366
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then from the general public is, well, you're not playing

367
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as good because you're shooting higher scores, but you're playing

368
00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:48,279
a lot tougher golf course. You know, they were set

369
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up like it was like setting up a men's golf

370
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course of seventy eight hundred yards that's the kind of

371
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golf the women playing it for a long time, and

372
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we changed that. But we found that the average guy

373
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:04,519
off that pops the ball out there, they need about

374
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:06,880
seventy five yards and then then they can compete. Well,

375
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,279
that's the same by going up. You know when I

376
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:11,599
go up on a tee, you know, I go up

377
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,119
about thirty yards. Well that makes it that that has

378
00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:16,680
thirty yards of my t shirt. Now I'm in the

379
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,720
game now. So in the history, we don't play. We

380
00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:24,519
don't play championship teas. You play to have a.

381
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,319
Speaker 2: Good time, right, you play the white teas, and it's

382
00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:30,000
like so proud, Yeah, I'm proud to play up.

383
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,559
Speaker 3: I mean, I love it. If some sometimes I play

384
00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:34,160
with clients, they say, well, look we're going to play

385
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,079
the senior teas. I love it, can't can't wait. You know,

386
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,160
I don't have any ego about that. Good for you,

387
00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:41,240
because I know what my limitations are. But if you

388
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:42,920
put me one hundred and fifty yards from the green

389
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:45,559
every very hole, I'm going to make a lot of birdies.

390
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 2: M In the history of golf, are are different sets

391
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,960
of tea is a relatively new thing.

392
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 3: No, no, no, They're always most golf courses have ladies.

393
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,000
He's the men's ties, but most golf course now they're

394
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,440
in a lot. I've been on a lot of golf

395
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,680
courses where the ladies seas were twenty yards further than

396
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,400
the men's that's just that's a joke, to be honest

397
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,119
with you. They should be pretty close to one hundred

398
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,119
yards on every single hole for the ladies to enjoy

399
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,119
the game like men. Do you see gals out there

400
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,519
with a driver on a par three? Well, you you

401
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,519
put guys, you make the par three long enough before

402
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:27,839
they have to get drivers. You wouldn't see very many pars, okay,

403
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,319
even at the big boys. So so, I mean, it's

404
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,400
just that it becomes an oversight when people design golf courses.

405
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,119
They design them for the men, and they don't consider

406
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,400
the cows. They put okay, put the red teas here,

407
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:43,400
but they don't do it. They don't do it mathematically

408
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,400
based on how far the most of the gals hit it.

409
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,759
So you know, when the gals shoot break one hundred,

410
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,640
they go crazy, they pop the champagne and give everybody

411
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,799
a pin. That's a joke. If you put them in

412
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:56,400
the right place, they're going to be shooting in the

413
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,079
eighties and the good ones will get in the seventies.

414
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Speaker 2: Well, when you say that the courses are being when

415
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,000
you say the courses are being designed for man, I

416
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:04,359
think that the courses is being designed for PGA Tour

417
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,720
events because they're just making their courses longer and longer

418
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,079
and longer, which is playing into their hands of these

419
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,200
guys who have who can hit the ball in mine

420
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:14,839
own half and they don't.

421
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,400
Speaker 3: Have the there's a perception, and it happens at our

422
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,559
own valley where they'll they'll build what they call the

423
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,759
championship feet and they'll put them back in the corner

424
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,720
where they you know, the desire didn't even want them

425
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,400
to be okay, because they think that by doing that

426
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,160
they're going to bring more members in. But typically these clubs,

427
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,319
the membership is three hundred thousand. Well, how many young

428
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,559
people do you know that will plunk down three hundred

429
00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:42,440
thousand dollars to join a club. So it's usually older,

430
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,079
successful people that don't hit it very far. So they

431
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,519
make these teas so that they can so that they

432
00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:52,640
can say, well, ours is a seventy three hundred or

433
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,880
seventy four hundred rated course. Blah blah blah. Meaningless doesn't

434
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,880
mean a thing because nobody plays them right, you know,

435
00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:01,039
and it makes the game slow. And you get these

436
00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:04,119
you get these guys that are eighteen handicaps going back

437
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,039
there and they and they ruin the game for the

438
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:10,559
people behind them. I don't I'm not advocating that we

439
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,480
put the teas up where you're on the fringe of

440
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,240
the green team off, but you've got to you've got

441
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:19,240
to put you know, we know there's a mean average

442
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,799
of what your membership hits the ball. We know what

443
00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:23,759
they hit it, and that's whe the golf course should

444
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,920
be played from and for ladies, you know, come on,

445
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,079
how many gals hit it on? How many gals hit

446
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,640
it one hundred and seventy five yards? Okay, so you

447
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,079
can't put them on a three hundred and seventy yard

448
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:38,519
hole or a four hundred yard hole. That's crazy. I mean,

449
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,599
they're they're beating a three wood on a third shot.

450
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,079
You know what kind of fun is that. That's why

451
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,359
I say I'm I'm very sensitive to dec issue because

452
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,400
I've worked with a lot of lady professionals in my

453
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,799
life and I've given them zillion lessons to gals and

454
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,920
the big majority. I mean that you know, eighty percent,

455
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,880
you know, can't hit it two hundred yards can't. Okay,

456
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,519
So now they get on a golf poole that's three ninety,

457
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,480
you know, I mean if they get on in two

458
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,480
it's you know, they might have a heart attack. They

459
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,519
shouldn't be that way. They should be if they hit

460
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:19,279
their good drive, they should have some kind of an

461
00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:22,079
iron or a rescue club to hit, but some kind

462
00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:26,480
of an iron. It's just it's it's unfairly set up.

463
00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:29,799
And again, I think it's the responsibility of a golf

464
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:34,319
course and the management to understand these things and then

465
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:38,039
sit down and come up with an idea. Okay, what

466
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,079
do we think our gals hit the ball? And then

467
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,599
plot out a hole so that they can hit some

468
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:46,440
kind of a mid iron into that green, and that's

469
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,799
what the t should be, okay, And then you'd see

470
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,119
that the galls have a lot more fun and the

471
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:56,680
game is more playable for them if you look at

472
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,920
the scores. I mean, you know, I give lessons and a

473
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,240
lot of clubs. They invite me to teach, and I

474
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,400
every now and then there's a tournament one hundred and

475
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,640
twenty one hundred and fifteen hundred and ten. Every now

476
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,720
and then you get somebody in the nineties, and that's

477
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,759
the that's the field. And these are girls have been

478
00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:13,240
playing a long time, you know, because they're older. Yeah,

479
00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:15,440
you get the you know, the young members twenty one

480
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,960
or twenty two or twenty three that married some guy. Well,

481
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:19,720
some of those guys can play, they're fresh out of

482
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,599
college and they can pop the ball. But most of

483
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,279
the girls are in the fifties and the sixties. Where

484
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:24,920
are they going to get the golf ball? You know?

485
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:26,680
And a lot of them, a lot of them were

486
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,240
taught at that age because their husband played golf and

487
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,079
they were, come on, you got to learn, we'll play

488
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,759
golf together, that kind of stuff.

489
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,519
Speaker 2: Do you have the same frustrations that I have when

490
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:43,559
you go out and play with people, and they especially

491
00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:45,119
and of course they've not played to go, well, what's

492
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,960
the distance let's play from this team got sixty nine?

493
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,440
They want into yards and they don't look at the

494
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,240
rating slope.

495
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I know that a lot of courses, even

496
00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,799
the men's let's just say the white cheese because they

497
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,119
have so many different colors now. But let's say the

498
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,319
back is the blue cheese, in the middle is the

499
00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:07,440
white tees. A lot of times the white tees are

500
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:10,599
you know, ten yards ahead of the blue cheese, which

501
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,720
is crazy, it's ludicrous. But again there's no thinking done

502
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,400
at the start of every day when those tees are set.

503
00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:21,240
Someone should be setting them based on what the club professional.

504
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,640
You know that he set that golf course up for

505
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,200
the superintendent. You can't expect the superintendent and in most

506
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,200
cases do not play the game. And the superintendent's not

507
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:33,279
setting the teases his workers who probably don't play the game.

508
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:35,880
So they just cut it down and put the team

509
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,519
markers there with no thought that somebody's got to play

510
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:41,599
from here. So the golf course, the golf course plays

511
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,359
way beyond the slope, rating the way harder right, right,

512
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:49,559
And that's that's you know, we talk about slow play.

513
00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:52,640
That's one of the reasons we have slow play because

514
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:56,279
with the long iron on their third shot, right, it

515
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,359
has nothing to do with their ability. It has to

516
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,759
do that it's too long.

517
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are playing from the wrong tees, their egos

518
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,839
getting the way, they slow down the pace of play.

519
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,640
They're scoring high numbers when they shouldn't be. It's just

520
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:12,880
it's just this endless cycle of garbage.

521
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,039
Speaker 3: There, right, and it's rooting the game for a lot

522
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:17,720
of people, and it's costing. It's costing a lot of

523
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:19,519
money because you know, if you have a lot of

524
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,400
slow play, you can't get players on the golf course.

525
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:24,720
But a lot of it goes back to management and

526
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:28,599
the planning of where those teas should be. There has

527
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:31,680
to be calculations made based on where you think the

528
00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:34,480
majority of people hit the golf ball so that they

529
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,640
can enjoy this sport. You know, when you're a successful

530
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,319
man and you've worked all your life, you don't want

531
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:41,920
to play golf. That's beating the heck out of you

532
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,000
all the time, and you're never going to say this

533
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:46,920
is too hard for me. No one wants to do that,

534
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,839
you know, no one wants to admit to that. So

535
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,559
what management has to has to do is put them

536
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:56,880
put that make that golf course not a sense of easy,

537
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,039
but fair, not fair. If you can't reach a part

538
00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:03,480
four and two, if you can hit the ball, let's

539
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,319
say two hundred and ten yards, you should be able

540
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,000
to You should be able to hit that green in

541
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:11,680
two Okay, So you can't. You can't put a high

542
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:14,759
handicap around a four hundred and seventy yard hole or

543
00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:16,640
four hundred and sixty year old. That's a part five

544
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,279
for them. And that's how. And that doesn't take away

545
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:23,240
from the golf course being a great course, because the

546
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,160
greatness comes in the design. It doesn't come in the length.

547
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: Right right, because a short course, a short course can

548
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,119
be very punishing.

549
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, I've played course that were

550
00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:38,799
sixty six hundred yards long. They'll give you a battle

551
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:41,359
every time you play it. But it's it's because you

552
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,000
have to be accurate, you have to hit the left,

553
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,920
left the right, or right the left and those kinds

554
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,359
of things. But it's not because you can't reach the green.

555
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,680
I mean, that's just stupid golf. To me. That's stupid golf.

556
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,599
It really is. And unfortunately, there's so much emphasis on

557
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,880
distance today in today's world that you know, I get

558
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,319
these kids at young ages and they're all they're all

559
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:02,039
swinging out of their shoes, and I say, what are

560
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:04,119
you going to do when you're playing a twenty yard fairway?

561
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,880
I mean, you're done. So that's part and parcel of

562
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:15,000
the problem. We're exposed to everybody hits at three thirty three,

563
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,559
forty and some guy out there fifty years old, you know,

564
00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:22,200
you feel impotent, for God's sakes, But it's it's because

565
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,720
we've been we've been sol a bill of goods. And

566
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:28,680
the game is never intended to be a driving contest,

567
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,640
you know, it really wasn't. It's a game of strategy.

568
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,079
It's a game of ball placement. And to me, I

569
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,599
think they're ruining the game by making the courses longer

570
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,240
and longer and longer. For who, I mean for who?

571
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:43,839
Speaker 1: Who?

572
00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:47,279
Speaker 3: Who can seventy three one hundred yards is a long

573
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:49,599
golf course? Who plays it? Yeah? Maybe a kid that

574
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,000
beats it out there, but the average guy, man, I mean,

575
00:27:53,079 --> 00:27:57,799
you know you can't if you can't get home into

576
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,799
what the heck? You know, time and time again, sometimes

577
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:03,519
you know there will be one of those holes out

578
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:04,799
there that you say, oh, well this one, I just

579
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,400
got to be hope, be happy with a bogie. But

580
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,960
you can't do that for eighteen holes. Right.

581
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: A question about and now I know the obvious answer

582
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,039
as well, because the club is longer, but is do

583
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,400
you should you have a different swing? And that's a

584
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,519
loaded question. With your driver versus your nine iron.

585
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,839
Speaker 3: No, it's going to be it's gonna be flatter because

586
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:34,799
the ball is farther away from you. But no, conceptually

587
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,599
and feel wise, no. And the difficult part is tempo

588
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,480
because we want to swing the driver faster than we

589
00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:45,160
do a full swing, let's say with an eight iron,

590
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:48,000
and it shouldn't be it will the club will be

591
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:50,920
moving faster because the swing is wider, because the club

592
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,440
is longer, and the distance is going to be derived

593
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,920
by that longer lever. But you don't try to swing harder.

594
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,720
I mean, one of the great things I ever heard

595
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,440
was Trevino was saying that, you know, he's the one

596
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,039
I played with Nicholas. He was so long. I didn't

597
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:04,440
watch him hit it. And he said, I used to

598
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,519
try to hit it two thirty eight, and I would

599
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:08,680
hit it two seventy, but when I tried to hit

600
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,519
it two seventy, I hit it two thirty eight, which

601
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:12,599
I just thought, said, man, that that should be in

602
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,440
the Bible, for God's sakes. I mean, it was so

603
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:17,200
absolutely correct, because when you attempt to try to hit

604
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,960
the ball harder, your swing gets faster in the backswing,

605
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:23,720
shorter in the backswing and tighter at impact. That's why

606
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:25,279
a lot of times, you know, we have a shot

607
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:27,680
and we think, ah, that's a six arm, but I'm

608
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,440
going to hit an easy five iron, and we fly

609
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:31,960
the green. We say, what the heck I hit that?

610
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:35,079
I've hit that fire iron way farther than because you

611
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:37,160
relax and you let yourself get that club all the

612
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,279
way back and all the way through because you weren't

613
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:41,680
trying to hit it. You just want he swung the club.

614
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:44,000
You know. There's a lot to that, you know, And

615
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,480
and unfortunately we get that driver and I hand. All

616
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,799
of a sudden, you see their jaws tightening up. And

617
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:53,880
that's not it wasn't intended that. What I tell my boys,

618
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:57,200
the driver is a placement club, not a distance club.

619
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:00,119
It's a place. It's a club to place the ball

620
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:02,160
on the fairway where you've got a good angle to

621
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,279
the green. That's all it is. Don't buy into you've

622
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:07,680
got to hit a three fifty or three forty or

623
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,799
three thirty or any of those numbers. Let that happen. Fine.

624
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:12,599
If you can do that, fine, but you don't try

625
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,920
to make it happen because you're just going to you're

626
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,119
gonna get handsy, you're gonna get your arms ahead of

627
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,359
your body, and you're gonna hit it all over the place.

628
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,799
And you know, without naming guys on tour, there's a

629
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:23,640
couple of guys that win a tournament. The next week,

630
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:26,640
you know they're at the very bottom because they're all

631
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,079
over the place. So when they're timing that big swing,

632
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,559
they're okay, but they can't do it every week. And

633
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:33,640
then you got the same guys in the middle of

634
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,400
the pack every single week, and then every now and

635
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,240
then then they break through. But when they don't win,

636
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,839
they don't drop to the very bottom. They're always up

637
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,880
in contention. And those are the guys that are in

638
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,319
control of that club hit. They're not out there trying

639
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:47,200
to hit it three fifty right now.

640
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: That's an excellent point. Pick a spot in the fairway

641
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,039
and get there. Don't and be fair to yourself, don't

642
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:54,880
try to crush it. Just try to get to your spot.

643
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:57,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, just all you're trying to do is set the

644
00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:59,440
whole up. That's what the driver does is sets the

645
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,799
whole off of the next shot. Put it a little

646
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:03,480
bit on the left center of the fairway, so you're

647
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,000
coming in at the right angle. You're not hitting over

648
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:08,240
a bunk or whatever. I mean. Hogan looked at the

649
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,519
faraway and quadrants, and he picked out a quadrant and

650
00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:12,599
put it there. Now, you know, he was pretty special

651
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:15,319
about hitting the golf ball. But if you're if you've

652
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:17,599
cut everything, then get over to the far right of

653
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,960
the tee and aim it to the far left of

654
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,920
the fairway and let it cut back into the fairway.

655
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,799
That's why you're using the whole ferway. Aim it to

656
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,480
the right edge of the fairway and let your draw

657
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,599
work in the into the fairway. Now you're using the

658
00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:30,640
whole fairway. What a lot of people do. They stand

659
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,920
in the middle of the tee and they hit it.

660
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:34,759
They're trying to hit it right straight down the middle.

661
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,680
So if they push it, it's going off the ferry.

662
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,480
If they pull it, it's going off the ferry because

663
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,960
they're only using half of the fairway. You understand what

664
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:45,559
I mean by that, Yeah, and so we In most cases,

665
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:47,400
you don't stand in the middle of the tee. You

666
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,440
either stand on the left side or the right side,

667
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:52,079
based on the shape, on the shape of your of

668
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:54,640
your drive. You know, I hit a little cut. Some

669
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,519
people hit a little draw uh or if my typical

670
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,319
shot cut or my typical shot draws, and then I'll

671
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:05,559
play that with the driver. I'm I'm I'm gonna position

672
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,319
myself on the tee to take advantage of the whole

673
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:12,519
pharaweh instead of half of it. So early on.

674
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,519
Speaker 2: In the last episode when we were talking about you

675
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:19,440
know that everybody's swing is unique and it's you know,

676
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:25,000
it's really all about being square at contact. Correct, that's correct, okay,

677
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,880
And so there is no perfect swing, is this what

678
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:30,319
we're saying?

679
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's not possible. That's why the fairways are forty

680
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:39,960
to fifty yards wide and so forth, because there always

681
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,799
is going to be a little variancid impact, a little open,

682
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,200
a little closed. The more connected and the more rotational

683
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:48,039
you are in your golf swing, the more that you're

684
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:51,359
going to bring the club fairly consistently to the ball,

685
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,839
and you're going to you'll know where the club head is.

686
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,200
That's a big key is knowing where the club hit is.

687
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,880
So if you're rolling your forearms over trying to hit

688
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,599
a golf ball, there's no way to know to feel

689
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,000
where it is, you know, But when you're when you're

690
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:06,519
rotating your body and that's pulling the arms, and the

691
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,079
arms are connected to the body. Then the arms feel

692
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:11,359
like a lever connected to a gear, and as you

693
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,079
turn the lever, the lever moves moves forward, so you're

694
00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:17,720
never swinging your arms freely. All this stuff about a

695
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,519
free arm swing, it should be in the comic books

696
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:26,000
because it isn't reality. The freer you armed swing, the

697
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:28,359
more the club has a chance to be open or closed.

698
00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:29,200
We don't want that.

699
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,519
Speaker 2: Well, Tony, once again, you've been a wealth of information.

700
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:37,680
I so enjoy speaking with you. Thank you so much

701
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,839
for your time to these last two episodes. And again, people,

702
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:44,720
if Tony intrigues you at all, there's a lot of

703
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,680
calls to action that we've gone through. One is make

704
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,319
sure that you check out the video, the Golf Smarter TV,

705
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:53,920
the video that we did together, because it's going to

706
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,839
teach you a lot in a short amount of time.

707
00:33:56,079 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: Well, Fred, I'd like to just close with one thing. Please,

708
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,079
for the people out there that have listened to this.

709
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:05,200
You know there's a lot of pontificating going on, but

710
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:08,360
if you really want to get into this game, find

711
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,079
someone that really understands rotation and connection. If they're not

712
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,679
using those words to you and trying to get you

713
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,159
to hoist the club up the air and then bring

714
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,400
it down. You know, just run. Find somebody, just like

715
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:25,679
going to a doctor. Find somebody that understands the simplicity

716
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,719
of the golf swing. It isn't rocket science. It's really

717
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,079
kind of simplistic once you connect all the parts and

718
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,559
then just move them in a rotational move. If you

719
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:38,599
find someone like that and that's patient, you're going to

720
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,519
grow in the game and you're going to start enjoying

721
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:43,199
the game. And then go to your golf pro if

722
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,400
you belong to a club, and tell them a little

723
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,880
bit about why don't we set this golf course up

724
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,119
based on what the average guy hits it off the

725
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,880
tee and I think your membership will be very happy.

726
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,239
And you don't have to say we're moving it up.

727
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,039
Just put the tea in a place where you were

728
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,280
common said warrants it, and boy, I'll tell you what,

729
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,320
the game will be enjoyable for everybody at that club.

730
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,159
And you can make the golf course hard. You can

731
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,239
narrow the fairways with roughs, you can put the pin

732
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,559
in the funny positions so you don't have to worry

733
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:12,559
about the being tough enough