WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Mac. I had a great open for the show that

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<v Speaker 1>you poop pooed. So last second, I'm going to ask

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<v Speaker 1>you what do you want to do to start the show?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh? Goo, I would like you to tell me what

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<v Speaker 2>you're rushmore and we'll get back to this in the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>One second, what is a mount Rushmore?

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<v Speaker 2>So, if you're new to the program, here, a mount

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<v Speaker 2>Rushmore is the four nicest looking people on the planet.

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<v Speaker 2>And then once you determine that, every year, you carve

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<v Speaker 2>it into a mountain.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you just come up with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Just made that up. Okay, So if you're new

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<v Speaker 2>to that, people's hottest person on the planet every four

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<v Speaker 2>years gets put up there. I like that, Goo, You're

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<v Speaker 2>Mount Rushmore of comic book television shows. Now take a breather,

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<v Speaker 2>think about it for a little bit. I'll give you mine,

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<v Speaker 2>and then maybe you can jump back into here with.

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<v Speaker 1>Your live action or animated.

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<v Speaker 2>It's up to you. I would say, give me including animated.

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<v Speaker 1>So I already have three off the top of my mind,

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<v Speaker 1>and yes they are all Batman, but Batman the animated series.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I guess you'll go first.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeh, Batman Beyond the Harley Quinn Show and then X

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<v Speaker 1>Men ninety seven done.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, those are your four. I would go twenty nineteen's

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<v Speaker 2>Watchmen on HBO.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think Loki season one is on there. X

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<v Speaker 2>Men ninety seven is on there, and then I would

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<v Speaker 2>probably go Batman the Animated series for my fourth. And

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<v Speaker 2>I ask you that, gu because today we are discussing

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<v Speaker 2>possibly an entry into that Mount rushmore so I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's relevant.

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<v Speaker 1>Hashtag Kim Kardashian, can you come back to me real quick?

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<v Speaker 2>Cool? You got an addend amendment on yours?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Daredevil belongs on there, Loki does WandaVision. How many

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<v Speaker 1>can I put on there?

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<v Speaker 2>If you notice in the notes here I said, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>I was considering maybe Jess Jones season one, and then

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<v Speaker 2>I said, Aku, maybe Daredevil.

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<v Speaker 1>For Daredevil for me is definitely on there.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you if you had to go too and

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<v Speaker 2>two two animated, two live action, what's you're four?

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<v Speaker 1>So it's Batman the Animated series. I would take X

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<v Speaker 1>Men ninety seven over the original, and then we go Daredevil.

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<v Speaker 1>And here's the issue that we run into is that

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<v Speaker 1>is the sum of Loki both season one and two

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<v Speaker 1>better than the one season of one division for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we go. Actually, I almost forgot this even though

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote it down. Watchman twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, Watchmen as well, and the Boys, the Boys, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>the Boys. Okay, so just throw the Marvel stuff off.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll keep Daredevil, the Boys and then the two animated series.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Well, let's see if our approach approaching conversation has

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<v Speaker 2>anything to do with the top four here.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wait, oh this show here. I like the penguin

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Let's put that at the top and slid

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<v Speaker 1>everything else down.

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<v Speaker 3>Bang one good, three yeah, jos three, King of Queen

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<v Speaker 3>mall Street.

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<v Speaker 1>Entertained.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm go and I'm Mac.

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<v Speaker 1>What a great open by you. When's the last time

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<v Speaker 1>you've actually done anything?

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<v Speaker 2>Long time?

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<v Speaker 1>I know because I was actually I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>it earlier. I'm like pre show wise, Mac generally does

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<v Speaker 1>seventy five percent of the work. You're a very good

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<v Speaker 1>pre show. You do a lot of the notes. It

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<v Speaker 1>gets prepared. I usually do the open and Mac sack

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<v Speaker 1>and then anything post. Plus, I bring my award winning

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<v Speaker 1>personality to this program. That's people. People love me. People

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<v Speaker 1>love my opinions on witches. They love how I'm out

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<v Speaker 1>there and putting myself out there. I'm never on the

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<v Speaker 1>fence about anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you've got to create a shirt that says

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<v Speaker 2>witches get stitches.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good one, it's not bad. But I also

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<v Speaker 1>want to want to run into a real witch and

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<v Speaker 1>then have them put a put a spell on me

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<v Speaker 1>or any Yeah, I wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Want that type of situation.

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<v Speaker 1>That is not witchcraft. That is what is it called

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<v Speaker 1>the pincushion.

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<v Speaker 2>With the Yeah, i'd tell you that's witchcraft.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it like New Orleans. What is that called?

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<v Speaker 1>It's like the bay you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Did they do a whole season of American horror

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<v Speaker 2>story about witches of the Bayou?

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't they?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It's I'm not going to google. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to google.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called the Beignets.

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<v Speaker 1>Beignets are delicious.

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<v Speaker 2>Beignets are delicious.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, that's our show, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Folks, Today we are discussing what ign dot com gave

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<v Speaker 2>a five out a ten television show that is The Penguin.

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<v Speaker 2>The Penguin is a TV M, a gangster tragedy crime

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<v Speaker 2>in drama, eight episodes. Totally I did. I forgot to

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<v Speaker 2>get the minutes there, but they were roughly our episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>Finale was a little longer, so we probably had about

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<v Speaker 2>eight hours of programming, maybe a little less. You take

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<v Speaker 2>the credits in the in the and whatnot out uh

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<v Speaker 2>go on Roddy T's five percent from the critics, ninety

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<v Speaker 2>two percent from the audience, and on Metacritic a seventy two. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that is, at least from my perspective how

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sort of feeling about this show baseline extremely likable.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that's seventy two on Metacritics sort of echoes.

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<v Speaker 2>At least. What I'm maybe feeling is it didn't quite

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<v Speaker 2>hit those high highs of some of the past great covers.

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<v Speaker 1>Is in seventy two really high though.

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<v Speaker 2>Seventy two is pretty good for sure, but for example,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen is Watchmen eighty five.

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<v Speaker 1>So I would also I think that Watchmen, while I

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<v Speaker 1>like the Penguin better, I would say because I love

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<v Speaker 1>these characters, I love Batman, and I love the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of doing more stuff with characters like this on HBO,

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<v Speaker 1>Watchmen probably is a better show.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and it's sort of it was set up to

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<v Speaker 2>be that way too, right, because this is a show

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<v Speaker 2>in between two movies, whereas Watchmen was its own thing,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it's more satisfying.

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<v Speaker 1>It's David s.

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<v Speaker 2>Pumpkins gained, and so I guess it's maybe a little

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<v Speaker 2>unfair to the penguin. But also, when you're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>all time great shows, these are the types of hairs

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<v Speaker 2>you kind of have to split. Yes, So I'm interested

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<v Speaker 2>to hear how you received the final couple episodes of

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<v Speaker 2>this show and how the people have because early on

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of talk about maybe this could

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<v Speaker 2>be the greatest comic book show ever in the conversation

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<v Speaker 2>for it, and to me, I don't think it quite

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<v Speaker 2>got there, but I still thought it was fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if I would put it on my

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<v Speaker 1>rush more, but it is right there.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's like firmly a tier below for me.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't think it hit the high high.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a show that we're going to do soon

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<v Speaker 1>Comic book tears, Comic book show tears earber. Maybe we

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<v Speaker 1>do owe the people at least one tiering by the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the year. They're pretty upset about Octierbers.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fair. And if you're tuning into this program and

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<v Speaker 2>have no idea what this show is attached to. This

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<v Speaker 2>was I guess what's it called? When it's like, God,

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<v Speaker 2>really I should know the word, and I'm forgetting like

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<v Speaker 2>an attachment to something post something not a preamble but

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, but post. You know, you know what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about. This is an add on to The Batman,

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<v Speaker 2>which came out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a sequel series.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a yeah, came out in twenty twenty two. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe it was The Batman, and this show was never

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<v Speaker 2>really meant to be when that movie came about, and

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<v Speaker 2>then as they were developing this world, this Gotham, they

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<v Speaker 2>sort of stumbled into this and this ended up being

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<v Speaker 2>something that I think was certainly a worthwhile endeavor and

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<v Speaker 2>broadened the universe and I think something they're gonna continue

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<v Speaker 2>to do and also serves as like an appetizer and

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<v Speaker 2>a lead into the second movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeahp. But the one thing that I'm not a huge

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<v Speaker 1>fan of is it took us two years to get

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<v Speaker 1>this show. It's gonna take us two more years to

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<v Speaker 1>get the Batman movie. I hope that they're able to

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<v Speaker 1>not rush, but at least like get into the next

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<v Speaker 1>show a little bit quicker than the amount of space

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<v Speaker 1>between the Batman and the Penguin.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree the Batman two should have been this year.

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<v Speaker 2>The Penguin should have been last year. Give me one

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<v Speaker 2>a year and that would would be more appealing, I

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<v Speaker 2>think for.

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<v Speaker 1>Me, even if it's every three years. Actually yeah, because

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna start shooting The Batman two in twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>So even if there's three years between the movies and

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<v Speaker 1>then somewhere nestled in between is a television show.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool, Well that's what we got here. I would like

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<v Speaker 2>that condensed a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>No, because The Batman Too isn't gonna come out until

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six, right, Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're right, you're right correct. As I was gu

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<v Speaker 2>the creator slash showrunner of this show is Lauren la

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<v Speaker 2>front I think it's just Lefrank, but I like saying Lafran.

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<v Speaker 2>You would know her as a writer on the show Chuck,

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<v Speaker 2>which I've ever seen an episode of, but was somewhat popular.

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<v Speaker 2>She was also a writer on Agents of Shield and

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<v Speaker 2>something called Impulse that has decent grades. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what her connection was to this universe or to Matt Reeves,

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<v Speaker 2>but for someone that had never been a showrunner, or

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<v Speaker 2>at least to this magnitude. I thought this show was

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<v Speaker 2>really well done, amazingly well written. She was a writer

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<v Speaker 2>on the show as well. And that's really I think,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's a credit to Reeves for starting this universe

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<v Speaker 2>in the first place. But the writing and the character

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<v Speaker 2>development this show was unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>I also think for having eight episodes, like that's a

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<v Speaker 1>real good number of episodes. They don't really waste any time,

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<v Speaker 1>and everything on the show has a purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he will get to that in a few but

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<v Speaker 2>like borometer wise, you are pretty well gripped. Yeah, most

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<v Speaker 2>of these eight hours. It wasn't too many wasted moments

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<v Speaker 2>in here, if any. So they did a wonderful job.

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<v Speaker 2>Synopsis of The Penguin, following the events of the Batman

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<v Speaker 2>Oz Cobb aka the Penguin makes a play to seize

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<v Speaker 2>the reigns of the crime world in Gotham. Pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty good. It's pretty concise.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't mention two of the other main characters, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's good enough to sell you right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean Gotham is I would say there's four

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<v Speaker 1>main characters. Gotham is one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, that's fair that's definitely fair go. This show

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<v Speaker 2>stars Colin Farrell as Oz Cobb Slash the Penguin, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>reprising his role from The Batman, Kristin Miliati as Sophia

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<v Speaker 2>fl Cone aka Sophia Gigante. And before we get any further,

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<v Speaker 2>this was her show as good as Colin fara and

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<v Speaker 2>Ferrell is is Oz Cobb. You almost not cares is

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<v Speaker 2>not what I'm meaning. But she is so good she

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<v Speaker 2>becomes the like the eye of the storm, the center

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<v Speaker 2>of the show here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So if they do and they are gonna do

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<v Speaker 1>another show with another villain of Batman, another Rogues Gallery character,

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm so curious, like not who they choose for that,

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<v Speaker 1>but who they shoehorn in there as the secondary character

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<v Speaker 1>that we're gonna fall in love with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's gonna be hard to live up to Kristin Miliati,

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<v Speaker 2>that's for sure. Renzie Felise plays Victor Aguilar aka Vic,

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<v Speaker 2>and the showrunner Lafrant describes Vic as the heartbeat of

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<v Speaker 2>this show. I think that's pretty apt to. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he is more the common man. We're more going through

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<v Speaker 2>it the way he is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and a lot of outlets and I agree with this.

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<v Speaker 1>They describe his character as the Penguins Robin.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, yeah, that's I think that's kind of dumb down.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's good enough. That's good enough. I think Dardrew

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<v Speaker 2>O'Connell as Francis Cobb Ozit's mother Carmin and Jogo as

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<v Speaker 2>Eve Carlo the swearter, love interest slash friend of a Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>theo Rossi is doctor Julian Rush, which will have a

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<v Speaker 2>little thing on him and spoilers. Clancy Brown as Salvatore

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<v Speaker 2>Maroney who was named in The Batman, but we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>see him on screen. The one thing I'll say is

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<v Speaker 2>Clancy Brown is almost always a little too much for me.

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<v Speaker 2>He's he's just he's a little too much for me.

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<v Speaker 2>But Michael Kelly is Johnny Vetti who gets tied up

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<v Speaker 2>in this er so jealous of that, and then go

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<v Speaker 2>gets some cameos. No spoilers here, uh, people we saw

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<v Speaker 2>from The Batman. Mark Strong plays Carmine Falcone. He replaces

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<v Speaker 2>John Touturo because John Totro I think was shooting uh

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<v Speaker 2>severance instead of this, and he was good, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's fine. He was only the way. I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree because Mark Strong was almost too mean. Totro

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<v Speaker 2>wins you over a little bit, a little more playful.

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<v Speaker 2>Craig Walker is Detective Marcus Wise. We saw him as

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<v Speaker 2>one of the correct policemen in the movie. He comes

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<v Speaker 2>back in here and does a very nice job. Con

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<v Speaker 2>O'Neill as Chief Mackenzie bach Goo's favorite character in the

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<v Speaker 2>whole universe. Hey, what are you doing? Your family?

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<v Speaker 1>What are you doing Sophia?

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<v Speaker 2>And then we get a couple couple scenes in here

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<v Speaker 2>with Jamie Laws and Asbella real who is the mayor

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<v Speaker 2>elect as we've seen at the end of the batmano

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<v Speaker 2>Laura lefranc again the show I'm gonna keep saying her

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<v Speaker 2>name as often as I can describes this show primarily

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<v Speaker 2>as a tragedy. I know there are other themes in

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<v Speaker 2>whatnot that are picked up in this, but it's hard

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<v Speaker 2>not to agree with therk because this really is by

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<v Speaker 2>the end of it, this show really is a tragedy everything.

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<v Speaker 1>So, first off, all oz Ever wants on this show

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<v Speaker 1>is validation, and that is from everybody, and he will

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<v Speaker 1>say anything to anybody to get what he wants. And

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<v Speaker 1>he almost just keeps on making up his own rules

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<v Speaker 1>for himself as he goes where by the end of it,

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<v Speaker 1>yes he gets what he wants, but he doesn't. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like tragedy. He's there, but the way that he is,

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<v Speaker 1>he thinks that he has finally appeased certain people, but

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<v Speaker 1>his mind, his mind is warping, like the reality to

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<v Speaker 1>the point of like nothing that he actually set out

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<v Speaker 1>to do is there, but in his mind he's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Best part about this show, what makes this show so

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<v Speaker 2>fucking awesome is the dichotomy between Oz and Sophia and

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<v Speaker 2>where they're at. Certain points are at the same level.

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<v Speaker 2>One goes up, one goes down, the back and forth

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<v Speaker 2>and where they all end up, and ultimately it works

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<v Speaker 2>really well because one is striving for what the other has, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and the other one that has it doesn't want that,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to get rid of that, trying to get away

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<v Speaker 2>from that, and that this vicious cycle of that is

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<v Speaker 2>really what makes the show go.

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<v Speaker 1>It's also the great rags to riches story where it's

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<v Speaker 1>almost like when a poor person comes and like wins

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<v Speaker 1>the lottery and then they just buy a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>shit and like rich people are like, oh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>still really like Sophia calls everything in his apartment tacky

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<v Speaker 1>and trashy and stuff. But then when he has like

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<v Speaker 1>people that aren't from high society, they're like, oh, this

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<v Speaker 1>is really nice stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh good. I mentioned at the top, and we've this

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<v Speaker 2>has been a top conversations surrounding this series. When this

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<v Speaker 2>series was first conceived, Matt Reeves began thinking about this

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<v Speaker 2>series during post production of the first movie. The original

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<v Speaker 2>plan once he was getting going with this Penguin stuff

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<v Speaker 2>was to have the story that we saw play out

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<v Speaker 2>over these eight episodes essentially be the first act of

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<v Speaker 2>the sequel. But he didn't really know how to put

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<v Speaker 2>that together. And before he had even put pen to paper,

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<v Speaker 2>HBO had approached him and said, hey, like, we're looking

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<v Speaker 2>for a show from your universe, is there anything like

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<v Speaker 2>can you give us anything? Like don't save all the

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<v Speaker 2>good stuff for the movies, And he started talking about

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<v Speaker 2>this ODZ story and it was actually an HBO executive

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<v Speaker 2>named Casey Bloyse he's the CEO, was like, that's it,

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<v Speaker 2>that story, that's the show. So credit to HBO and

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<v Speaker 2>HBO always does this, but credit for them to them

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<v Speaker 2>for finding the niche here. This in between that worked

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<v Speaker 2>so well.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes, is this similar? Is this character similar, say

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<v Speaker 1>to a Tony soprano? Sure? Sure, everything is similar to

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<v Speaker 1>everything nowadays.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and when you're talking gangster crime, mob movies, you're

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<v Speaker 2>never gonna have a new idea. It's just not possible.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, I guess there's appropriate critiques there. But

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<v Speaker 2>having that set with the backdrop of Gotham and in

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<v Speaker 2>a Batman universe, obviously it plays it up a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit more gout before we get too deep into things,

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<v Speaker 2>just to make the timeline clear. Actually the timeline is

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<v Speaker 2>not clear, but to figure out where we're operating is

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<v Speaker 2>the first episode takes place about a week after the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the movie, a week after the flood and whatnot.

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<v Speaker 2>And then in that in Batman's final monologue of that movie,

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<v Speaker 2>he says, it's Wednesday, November sixth, and I have to

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<v Speaker 2>think what takes place over our eight episodes. It has

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<v Speaker 2>to take place over a couple of months of time frame.

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<v Speaker 1>Do they celebrate Thanksgiving on this show? Did they?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great question. I didn't see a Thanksgiving episode

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<v Speaker 2>in there, but some of the timelines and some of

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<v Speaker 2>the shit we see, there's no way could have happened

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<v Speaker 2>over a week or two weeks and had to been

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<v Speaker 2>a few if not a month or two, So that's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty unclear. I think we'll get a more stable timeline

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<v Speaker 2>once we get into the second movie. Maybe we're like

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<v Speaker 2>end of December and New Year type of situation. Now,

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00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.920
<v Speaker 2>and this whole show gets kicked off and we get

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<v Speaker 2>introduced to the ful Cone family in this show, because

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<v Speaker 2>not only was Oz tied in with him, but in

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<v Speaker 2>the first.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the entire Falcone family we obviously meet Carmine in

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<v Speaker 1>the battle.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, obviously Oz is tied in with them anyways.

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<v Speaker 2>But why this becomes an odds and fl Cone story

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<v Speaker 2>is because in the first fifteen minutes of the show,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's what sort of ropes she in, Oz kills

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<v Speaker 2>Sophia's brother Alister.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's all because, and this is what I

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<v Speaker 1>love about it, he made fun of him, Yeah, to

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<v Speaker 1>a t.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really what Oz is and what Oz has been

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<v Speaker 2>fighting against his whole life, this idea that he's not

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<v Speaker 2>good enough. Yes, and when he gets belittled by Alberto,

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<v Speaker 2>he snaps, And that's that little character trait that really

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<v Speaker 2>defines who Oz is.

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<v Speaker 1>I also love the way he walks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's perfect. I don't I don't know how how

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<v Speaker 2>many different walks he tried. The way Carl Farrell does

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<v Speaker 2>it is perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was the end or the beginning of

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<v Speaker 1>episode five they show him walking away from a car

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<v Speaker 1>and it's like really exaggerated and like, that is a

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<v Speaker 1>fucking penguin. It's great, it's a penguin. This also has

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<v Speaker 1>a lot to do with class warfare as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which I think also is like pretty well tied

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<v Speaker 2>into like mob stories, people trying to be made men

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<v Speaker 2>or work their way up the ladder. That has a

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<v Speaker 2>lot to do with class warfare, and especially with the

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<v Speaker 2>fallout from the Batman, how the shittier the poor areas

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<v Speaker 2>of town aren't getting attention and the rich areas.

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<v Speaker 1>Are so two things there. Number one, they start a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of scenes by showing off the bridge that separates

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<v Speaker 1>the rich and the poor and Gotham, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>also show a lot of starting with like a skyline

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<v Speaker 1>and then going down like four or five levels to

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<v Speaker 1>really show how low the penguin is here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what, The bridge shots and things like

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<v Speaker 2>that always remind me of Yeah, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>if you remember this or know anything about Rio de Janeiro,

385
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<v Speaker 2>but this was especially underlined when they held the Olympics

386
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<v Speaker 2>there or World Cup something like that. Rio is pretty

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<v Speaker 2>famously known for literally just sectioning off the poor area

388
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<v Speaker 2>with a gigantic wall, so thirty feet away, rich Highway

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00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.559
<v Speaker 2>whatever behind that, it's all poor and slums. And they

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<v Speaker 2>build Gotham out in a pretty similar manner in this world.

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<v Speaker 1>I also think so. I think Christopher Nolan did a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good job of it. But this show and the

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<v Speaker 1>movie has done the best job of building out like

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<v Speaker 1>a rich like you understand Gotham.

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<v Speaker 2>I think already one movie's worth. And of course the

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<v Speaker 2>show Gotham is more central to this story than it

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<v Speaker 2>ever I know, I'm summarizing what you're saying, is more

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<v Speaker 2>central to this story in this universe than it ever

399
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<v Speaker 2>was in Nolan's.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I think Nolan did a pretty good job.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Burton didn't really focus on it, Schumacher, I

402
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.119
<v Speaker 1>can't even think back to anything Gotham wise besides, like

403
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<v Speaker 1>the motorcycle races and Coolio in the streets. The animated

404
00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:07.319
<v Speaker 1>series did a pretty good job as well too, But

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<v Speaker 1>oh up, credit where credit is due the first Joker

406
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<v Speaker 1>movie does a pretty good job as well.

407
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<v Speaker 2>Agreed, I'll agree with you on that for sure. Definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess that's the end of the podcast. We gave

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<v Speaker 1>a compliment to Joker. Let's get to the I've nonagone here,

410
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Mac and fun factor. There is a lot of I think,

411
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<v Speaker 1>the backstabbing on this show because to sum up the

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<v Speaker 1>penguin in one word is weasel. He is a weasel.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't trust. It's just called weasel. You can't trust

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<v Speaker 1>a word he is saying to anybody.

415
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:48.599
<v Speaker 2>The double talk. He's always whatever he says is never

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<v Speaker 2>the truth.

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00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.640
<v Speaker 1>He's a true hype man. He's trying to hype everybody up,

418
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.720
<v Speaker 1>but he doesn't believe any of it, or maybe he

419
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.079
<v Speaker 1>does and he just goes back on it.

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00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>He's constantly cupping the balls.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all he's doing.

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00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Good to that point, this show has a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>fun with come up and revenge. Like that's the fun

424
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:09.839
<v Speaker 2>factor in this show. The anticipation of someone you fucking

425
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:12.960
<v Speaker 2>hate getting theirs. That's a lot of what drives the

426
00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:14.319
<v Speaker 2>fun behind this show.

427
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Satisfactor and I was extremely satisfied with not only how

428
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 1>the show ended, but the entire eight episode run.

429
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I think everything surrounding Sophia for eighty percent of this

430
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:35.720
<v Speaker 2>season is incredibly satisfying. Watching her become Sophia Jigante is great.

431
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I do feel like the last couple of episodes did

432
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:43.559
<v Speaker 2>not satisfy me enough when it came to the Oz

433
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:48.680
<v Speaker 2>stuff or the overarching Gotham stuff number one, because it

434
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.400
<v Speaker 2>was pretty obvious where they were going and number two,

435
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.039
<v Speaker 2>which we'll get in more so in spoilers. There is

436
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.839
<v Speaker 2>a glaring, glaring hole in all.

437
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.799
<v Speaker 1>Of this, so I think that maybe you aren't adding in,

438
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Like I think the relationship with his mother is extremely

439
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.640
<v Speaker 1>satisfying and how this character is gonna be. And I

440
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.920
<v Speaker 1>also think that moving forward in the next movie or

441
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>when he shows up again, he's gonna be a completely

442
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.519
<v Speaker 1>different character. He's not gonna be as like, you know,

443
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.400
<v Speaker 1>low level, uh, low class. He's gonna be a little

444
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.960
<v Speaker 1>bit He's gonna fit in more with society.

445
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Gou, I hear you, And I'm not saying you're wrong.

446
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying all this stuff with his mother was

447
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.000
<v Speaker 2>established really early, and you had a pretty good idea

448
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of where that was gonna end up. So by the end,

449
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>all I know.

450
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Not with her feelings on the boy.

451
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.039
<v Speaker 2>Ah, you knew that was gonna crack at some point,

452
00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:45.240
<v Speaker 2>you knew that was coming.

453
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.880
<v Speaker 1>No, And then also how he responds to it is

454
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:48.519
<v Speaker 1>the best.

455
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I I to me like that was sort of telegraphed.

456
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>But that's if if it worked better for you, that's fine.

457
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna say it shouldn't you calm me, stupid.

458
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:01.640
<v Speaker 1>I think we should both start acting like the penguin

459
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.400
<v Speaker 1>moving forward is that whenever you perceive like you're being

460
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.599
<v Speaker 1>slighted in the littlest just fucking attack the other person.

461
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Just shoot the other person.

462
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:13.200
<v Speaker 1>By the way, and this has nothing to do with

463
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the penguin. I was watching an interview with Steve Carell

464
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.839
<v Speaker 1>earlier and someone asked him about the improv scene on

465
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the office where he kept on pulling out a gun,

466
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.079
<v Speaker 1>and he said that when I was at Second City,

467
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 1>there was someone that always did that and we thought

468
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it was the funniest thing, and the teacher one day

469
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.000
<v Speaker 1>had to ask him for all of his guns.

470
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>The teacher in that scenes ken Jong, right, I believe so,

471
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.440
<v Speaker 2>or he's in the class. That's so good. Michael Scarrn.

472
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.279
<v Speaker 1>Barometer. I was not bored.

473
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.400
<v Speaker 2>No, I it is. My gripes with this show really

474
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.839
<v Speaker 2>don't have anything to do with Barometer Halloween.

475
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Will this show wanne over time? I don't know how

476
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:58.920
<v Speaker 1>much of a rewatchable show this will be, maybe going

477
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.160
<v Speaker 1>back to pick up on some of the Sofia stuff,

478
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.680
<v Speaker 1>because I think that she's gonna play a bigger role

479
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.599
<v Speaker 1>moving forward too much Like when I was watching this,

480
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.279
<v Speaker 1>I had to go back and rewatch The Batman once again.

481
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>So maybe it's just when something new comes out, it's

482
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.839
<v Speaker 1>just picking up more of these breadcrumbs as they're leaving behind.

483
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know if there's gonna be much rewatchability here.

484
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>And part of that goes into my overarching critique is

485
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 2>that it does lack this satisfying conclusion or this big

486
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>pants tent moment like that was satisfying that it sort

487
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.559
<v Speaker 2>of needed at the end. It doesn't make the show

488
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.599
<v Speaker 2>like it doesn't really diminish the show because it had

489
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>to fit in a window. But again, when you're looking

490
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.920
<v Speaker 2>for something to go back and rewatch, there's not a

491
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:42.599
<v Speaker 2>ton here.

492
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>O quater World. Is this television show better than the

493
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:51.559
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety five hit movie, Yes, it was profitable. Water

494
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:55.119
<v Speaker 1>World indeed it is, although it is dealing with a flood.

495
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.599
<v Speaker 2>Is water World in the DCU, Well.

496
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:05.079
<v Speaker 1>I know that Aquaman is very similar. That's true, Max

497
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:07.720
<v Speaker 1>credit Union. Who are you giving credit.

498
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.119
<v Speaker 2>To so obviously Kristin Miliatti, Christine Milliod. I still don't

499
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.519
<v Speaker 2>know how I've heard it both ways. That's a podcast.

500
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>It's a good one, overarching though it and it echoes

501
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:24.039
<v Speaker 2>the Miliati stuff. Whoever is in charge of casting in

502
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 2>this universe and especially for this show nailed it, fucking

503
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.599
<v Speaker 2>crushed it. Every character, even down to characters when they

504
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.519
<v Speaker 2>saw a couple times during the season, were so good

505
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.799
<v Speaker 2>and then the big players all absolutely demolished it. The

506
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>casting amazing.

507
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Who is the mobster that Oz looks up to? What's

508
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.119
<v Speaker 1>his name? The guy's got a real sour puss.

509
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>In the Falcone family.

510
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:50.359
<v Speaker 1>No, no, when he's a kid, Rex you're talking about? Yes, Rex,

511
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>thank you? So like plemenade wise, I think he'd be

512
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.279
<v Speaker 1>someone that would be a candidate. But like you're talking about,

513
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.799
<v Speaker 1>like the casting and this, like even I thought he

514
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.519
<v Speaker 1>was great in the episodes that we go and you

515
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 1>picked up on like why someone like Oz would idolize

516
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.640
<v Speaker 1>this person and then want to be this person.

517
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it had a little bit of a broxtail to it. Yeah,

518
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.519
<v Speaker 2>now as you can't leave like that moment was something

519
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 2>that really resonated with Oz.

520
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.599
<v Speaker 1>I'll give him plemonade, because when life gives you plemons,

521
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.359
<v Speaker 1>you make plemonade. We only saw him for roughly He

522
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.799
<v Speaker 1>was in two ish episodes, and he wasn't like a

523
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.640
<v Speaker 1>big character in those episodes, but I know you have here,

524
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.359
<v Speaker 1>dear Day O'Connor, who plays Deirdre.

525
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Deirdre O'Connell really nailed that. Deirdre O'Connell is Francis Cobb,

526
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.000
<v Speaker 2>the mother fuck that. I'd say the main three had

527
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.039
<v Speaker 2>too much screen time to really do Plemonade. And she

528
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.119
<v Speaker 2>was probably in five or six of these episodes, but

529
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.920
<v Speaker 2>she's only in a few scenes per episode. She did

530
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.759
<v Speaker 2>an incredible job. And there's also a whole like, you know,

531
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 2>mental things she's got going on, some sort of dementia

532
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.839
<v Speaker 2>type of situation, and I thought she did a really

533
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.960
<v Speaker 2>good job conveying that.

534
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:56.880
<v Speaker 1>The writing on that as well is very good and

535
00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.559
<v Speaker 1>the storytelling all that. I forget which episode it's the

536
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.079
<v Speaker 1>one where Vick is watching her and you see all

537
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.160
<v Speaker 1>the post it notes around to remind her to do stuff.

538
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.519
<v Speaker 2>And she would end scenes. She would go from clear

539
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.079
<v Speaker 2>all their alert and oriented to jumping back. She'd have

540
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.480
<v Speaker 2>these episodes. It's a very specific kind of dementia that

541
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.279
<v Speaker 2>they depicted in this I forget what it's called, but

542
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:19.359
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was really good and the actress did

543
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.160
<v Speaker 2>an amazing job.

544
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh also give credit too, because I hated this character

545
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.799
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, this feels like a real person. That

546
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.519
<v Speaker 1>kid squid, Yes, yeah, I was like, oh fucking blow

547
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:31.160
<v Speaker 1>this guy's head.

548
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yes, please.

549
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.279
<v Speaker 1>Pants ten City, Excite Mike Mania. What on this show

550
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:38.079
<v Speaker 1>got you going?

551
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Pretty clearly, Sophia tying people up was all I ever

552
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 2>needed her yellow dress in That was that episode four

553
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 2>when the come up and sappens for the Falcons. That

554
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.839
<v Speaker 2>was probably the high point of the season. Great moment

555
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.599
<v Speaker 2>for the character, But I must admit this show did

556
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:01.000
<v Speaker 2>lack a true standout moment, true stand up scene, and

557
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>I think that's maybe what we'll keep it from being

558
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.920
<v Speaker 2>talked about as one of the all time greats.

559
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.079
<v Speaker 1>I think it was Pete Blackburn from the What Chaos

560
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.480
<v Speaker 1>podcast that said he would love for Kristin Miliatti to

561
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:13.839
<v Speaker 1>put out a cigarette on him.

562
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't agree more. I'm pretty sure. I retweeted that.

563
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.640
<v Speaker 1>I think the end of episode four, where she gets

564
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:20.799
<v Speaker 1>her revenge is pretty good.

565
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Yes, great, Yeah.

566
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.119
<v Speaker 1>For those of you tarty to the Mac and Goop party,

567
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:29.200
<v Speaker 1>we rate everything on a forty hot dog rating system.

568
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Mac.

569
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:35.240
<v Speaker 1>First off, big ups to everyone involved on this show

570
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.559
<v Speaker 1>for having a show, a Gotham show with no Batman,

571
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:48.799
<v Speaker 1>a Batman show with no Batman, and still being wildly entertaining, gripping,

572
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:55.119
<v Speaker 1>great characters, taking its time, and not to take jabs

573
00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:00.599
<v Speaker 1>at other people, but like, take note, Sony Verse, take note.

574
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Joker, It's possible to do these things.

575
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 1>It's possible to do these things. So that's the big thing. Yea.

576
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:09.480
<v Speaker 2>All that said, we'll get into Yeah, we'll talk that complicate,

577
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>it does.

578
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.599
<v Speaker 1>But Colin Ferrell's amazing in this. I think he is

579
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>such a good penguin. And yes, it does come off

580
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more as like a joisy guy that's coming,

581
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 1>and but I think it works well for this character,

582
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.240
<v Speaker 1>especially when we think of like where Gotham might be

583
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.960
<v Speaker 1>in America. I think his mother is amazing in this.

584
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 1>Chris and Miliatti steals the show. The episodes that are

585
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:33.839
<v Speaker 1>dedicated entirely to her, you'd be saying, wait a second,

586
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.839
<v Speaker 1>this is in the Batman universe and it's called the Penguin.

587
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Where are these characters. We don't need them. We have

588
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.039
<v Speaker 1>Sophia fl Cone, we have Sophia to Jagante, and probably

589
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.880
<v Speaker 1>episode four, which is her episode where they do that

590
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.880
<v Speaker 1>is the best episode of the season. All the mobsters,

591
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.599
<v Speaker 1>they're all different and each gang has a different personality.

592
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.079
<v Speaker 1>I love that about the show too. The kid who

593
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.839
<v Speaker 1>played Vic is very good in this. You understand why Penguin,

594
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.039
<v Speaker 1>who's dealt with stuff with his foot his whole life

595
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>and not being not wanting to be looked down upon,

596
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.839
<v Speaker 1>goes with Vic, who has a starter, and he kind of,

597
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, sides with him, and he understands that like

598
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:16.799
<v Speaker 1>people kind of look down upon him as well. They're

599
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:20.480
<v Speaker 1>also both they both grew up with nothing and they've

600
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of built to where they are now, and Penguin

601
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.440
<v Speaker 1>wants to help him continue to build up even further

602
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 1>than that. I really love this show. There is something

603
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>that I do think takes away from where they're located,

604
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.039
<v Speaker 1>not even the storytelling, because you don't need Batman but

605
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:42.559
<v Speaker 1>you need the fear of Batman, and I don't think

606
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 1>the fear of Batman was here.

607
00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:47.200
<v Speaker 2>That's that's for sure.

608
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Thirty seven hot.

609
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 2>Dogs, Okay, Yeah, I'm in the same range as you. Gou.

610
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, the acting fantastic. The world they build

611
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:02.279
<v Speaker 2>or build out underneath this world, the lower levels of

612
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Gotham is great and really is going to help the

613
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 2>movies going forward and help you know, Oz become this

614
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Penguin villain going forward. I think, though, the two biggest

615
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:19.960
<v Speaker 2>things that bother me here is number one, the thing

616
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>hanging over this whole Gotham that we'll expand upon. But

617
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:28.160
<v Speaker 2>the Batman stuff, the more you think about it, the

618
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:31.119
<v Speaker 2>more it starts to hurt the show. Now, I'm not

619
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:33.799
<v Speaker 2>too sure people were thinking about it in the moment,

620
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.240
<v Speaker 2>but by the end of the season it had become

621
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 2>a pretty pretty reasonable discourse online.

622
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I texted you telling you all this, and you're like,

623
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you're making too big of a deal out of this,

624
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And I don't want a nitpick. I think this is

625
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.240
<v Speaker 1>a wonderful show. It is, but when you're in Gotham

626
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.799
<v Speaker 1>and you have streets exploding, whole city blocks, something's got

627
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 1>to give.

628
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:57.799
<v Speaker 2>Yep. And it wasn't even the end of the season,

629
00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:59.599
<v Speaker 2>so he had plenty of time to pop up. He

630
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:01.119
<v Speaker 2>doesn't even need to show up. You just need a

631
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.240
<v Speaker 2>batsy clock. Yes, couldn't agree more so. I think that

632
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:09.279
<v Speaker 2>puts a damper on the whole thing overall. And that

633
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:11.839
<v Speaker 2>lack of like standout scene in the second half of

634
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the show I think hurts it a little bit. And

635
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.519
<v Speaker 2>I also think the show sort of became a victim

636
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 2>of its strength the character development. Sophia becomes such an

637
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:25.400
<v Speaker 2>amazing character it almost hurts the show because it's not

638
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:27.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not her show.

639
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.000
<v Speaker 1>No, where she ends up is such a good place,

640
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:32.039
<v Speaker 1>though I agree.

641
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking about that. I'm saying because her character

642
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.920
<v Speaker 2>became so great, I cared less about Oz and where

643
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:39.519
<v Speaker 2>he ends up.

644
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you also so if you want.

645
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.920
<v Speaker 2>To I'm not. I'm all I'm saying is she is

646
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.039
<v Speaker 2>so good. It sort of took away from the stuff

647
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:49.640
<v Speaker 2>because I cared less about him.

648
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.200
<v Speaker 1>But if they went into this saying we want to

649
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.160
<v Speaker 1>tell this sofiafl Cone story, but they can't go to

650
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:59.000
<v Speaker 1>HBO and be like, hey, we have this Sophia fl cones.

651
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.640
<v Speaker 1>I agree, you needed at least to have the penguin

652
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 1>who is a recognizable character. I'm not Batman at.

653
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 2>Least as Don't get me wrong, I'm mora killed the

654
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:12.680
<v Speaker 2>show for me. It just hurt it a little bit,

655
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.880
<v Speaker 2>a little bit so good. I think I'm at thirty

656
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.319
<v Speaker 2>six hot dogs. Okay, I think it's just a tear

657
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:24.359
<v Speaker 2>below greatness, really really fucking good. Borderline loved it, loved

658
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:28.440
<v Speaker 2>most of the show most of the season, like episodes three, four, five,

659
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 2>six were great, that the middle part of the season

660
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.799
<v Speaker 2>was great. I just have a hard time. And this

661
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:36.799
<v Speaker 2>goes into the Halloween stuff. It's hard to remember or

662
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.039
<v Speaker 2>have that great love affair with the show when it

663
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.799
<v Speaker 2>doesn't end on the high that it achieved in the

664
00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:44.119
<v Speaker 2>middle of the season. So that's that. Let's get into

665
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:44.920
<v Speaker 2>spoiler spoke.

666
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Can I just mentioned one thing in spoilers So we've

667
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.240
<v Speaker 1>already mentioned a couple of times here that the show

668
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.039
<v Speaker 1>just it needed not even like, say, if the penguin

669
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.960
<v Speaker 1>thinks too highly of himself that he'll be caught by Batman.

670
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he's and he's already run into Batman, but say

671
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:02.680
<v Speaker 1>it if he thinks so highly of himself that he's like, Okay,

672
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:04.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna get caught. I don't even need to

673
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:08.480
<v Speaker 1>think about him, his cronies, the people working underneath Sophia,

674
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.679
<v Speaker 1>under Maroney Street. Then you should at least be like, hey,

675
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.800
<v Speaker 1>what if he shows up? That's the only line I needs.

676
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:18.320
<v Speaker 2>It was not apparent, and to your credit, two weeks

677
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.760
<v Speaker 2>ago you texted me about this whole Batman plot hole

678
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.880
<v Speaker 2>in this whole series. I started to think about it

679
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.719
<v Speaker 2>a little bit, started seeing it, but more online. I

680
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't rewatch The Batman until after I had finished the season.

681
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad I waited. Fifteen minutes into The Batman, I

682
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.320
<v Speaker 2>texted you and I said, oh boy, the Penguin's got

683
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:40.559
<v Speaker 2>a Batman problem, because fifteen minutes into that show, Jim Gordon,

684
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.639
<v Speaker 2>who we don't see in this show that's a detriment,

685
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.800
<v Speaker 2>puts the bat signal up for Batman, and over the

686
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.119
<v Speaker 2>course of the next thirty minutes they specifically talk about

687
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:54.320
<v Speaker 2>how those two put the Maronis behind bars so directly

688
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.840
<v Speaker 2>ties them into this mob, this crime story that Oz

689
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.519
<v Speaker 2>is tied into, and it really really hurts the end

690
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.719
<v Speaker 2>of this show that Batman does not pop up or

691
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:06.719
<v Speaker 2>is not mentioned.

692
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 1>It just I'm mentioned.

693
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Isn't in there in those last couple episodes. Having it

694
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.239
<v Speaker 2>come up at the very end made no sense, and

695
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 2>it just bothered me because it was like, Okay, they

696
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:18.679
<v Speaker 2>just threw it in there to please the fans. The

697
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:22.039
<v Speaker 2>bat signal should have come up weeks before that, way

698
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.800
<v Speaker 2>before that, and especially in episode seven when a whole

699
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.679
<v Speaker 2>fucking city block gets blown up. That that was it,

700
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:29.079
<v Speaker 2>right now?

701
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.400
<v Speaker 1>That was That was the breaking point for me, because

702
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:33.840
<v Speaker 1>they had done a very good job establishing that Oz

703
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:38.440
<v Speaker 1>was really good at working underneath everything and keeping everything

704
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>as quiet as possible, but he's also someone that wants

705
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 1>the spotlight and wants people to know what he's doing,

706
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.679
<v Speaker 1>So he might be someone that also wants Batman to

707
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:50.960
<v Speaker 1>know what he's doing too. Yeah, even in the movie

708
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:54.119
<v Speaker 1>he mentions the Batman, you know my reputation, right, and

709
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:55.079
<v Speaker 1>he's proud of it.

710
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:59.079
<v Speaker 2>The fact that Oz is at once even just shuddered

711
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:00.960
<v Speaker 2>by the fact that the bat that man might appear

712
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.960
<v Speaker 2>is bothersome when you rewatch the movie or remember what.

713
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Happened in the opening scene of the movie, not like

714
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the Riddler stuff for him investigating. When they show the

715
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:14.280
<v Speaker 1>lower level goons doing crimes, they're all looking over their

716
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 1>shoulders because Batman's been doing it for a year and

717
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.639
<v Speaker 1>he's been beating the piss out of people.

718
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 2>It's really bothersome. And also Gordon not popping up is bothersome,

719
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.239
<v Speaker 2>especially when he's tied into the mob stuff. That's a

720
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:26.599
<v Speaker 2>secondary thing to Batman.

721
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Are we being poopy pants fan boys right now? No?

722
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.440
<v Speaker 2>No, No, it's a big thing. It's a big thing.

723
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And again we scored the show still super high. But

724
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.360
<v Speaker 2>it is a big thing hanging over this show because

725
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 2>like all you had to do was even have the

726
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:42.880
<v Speaker 2>bat signal in the background. It may pretend like he

727
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.239
<v Speaker 2>was doing something else. There was bigger fish to fry

728
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.480
<v Speaker 2>at the time, but they don't mention him. It's not

729
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.440
<v Speaker 2>in the back and just throwing it there at the

730
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:53.559
<v Speaker 2>end just to like, huh, tolgays here. That pissed me off.

731
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.199
<v Speaker 1>There was another Easter egg as well, not even an

732
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Easter egg, but like something that they should have mentioned

733
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.400
<v Speaker 1>in there is when so Fia was learning about the

734
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:05.079
<v Speaker 1>women that her father killed. Yeah, they should have had

735
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Selina Kyle's mother in there as a I hint toward

736
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the letter that she gets at the end of the show.

737
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then there's also this whole thing where the

738
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:18.360
<v Speaker 2>police are investigating the Falcone deaths, this big thing you

739
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.760
<v Speaker 2>probably would have called in Gordon and or Batman there,

740
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:23.559
<v Speaker 2>that's part of it. I don't know, it's just I

741
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.119
<v Speaker 2>don't it doesn't make sense secondary to that go And

742
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:31.519
<v Speaker 2>of course Reeves this in lefranc have been asked these questions.

743
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:33.599
<v Speaker 2>I think it's more a Reeve's question than is Lefron,

744
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.920
<v Speaker 2>because she was just given a task to make this

745
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.920
<v Speaker 2>show in between the movies. Reeves said and I quote

746
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:43.920
<v Speaker 2>that introducing Batman crossing in would mess with the narrative

747
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of the show, and with Oz, I think it had

748
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.599
<v Speaker 2>an adverse effect. I think not having him cross in

749
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 2>at all sort of messed up the narrative of the

750
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:55.800
<v Speaker 2>show and of Oz. It did. It didn't make sense,

751
00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:58.320
<v Speaker 2>it didn't jive, and I'm just bothered by it. I

752
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.280
<v Speaker 2>think we're harping on this because the show could have

753
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.400
<v Speaker 2>been even better, and it's just something that's lingering in

754
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.559
<v Speaker 2>the minds of almost everyone that watched this show.

755
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Outside of the well being of his mother. He had

756
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:13.400
<v Speaker 1>no fear in this show, right, right, and.

757
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.679
<v Speaker 2>He's clearly fearful of the Batman in the movie. So

758
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:20.239
<v Speaker 2>it's just those two things, those two ideas can't coexist.

759
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're really sorry about that. This is a really

760
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.079
<v Speaker 1>good show. It's a very good show.

761
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 2>Very good. Let's get to the finale.

762
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Good Okay.

763
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.199
<v Speaker 2>We find out at the beginning of this finale that

764
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Francis Oz's mom was going to have her own son

765
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Oz killed by Rex once she figured out he was

766
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.599
<v Speaker 2>responsible for her two other sons death. That's pretty fucking dark.

767
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:45.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, really, And I love how obsessed with his mother

768
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>they made him in this show.

769
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.039
<v Speaker 2>And it's a real Oedipus complex.

770
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 1>It is, and all he wants. His goal the entire

771
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:54.320
<v Speaker 1>time we learn of it, I think at the end

772
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>of episode seven, is to put his mother in the

773
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:01.239
<v Speaker 1>highest building in Gotham. We're she can look over the city,

774
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:05.880
<v Speaker 1>and it's one of those you finally have time, you

775
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:08.920
<v Speaker 1>can read all the books, but your glasses break. She

776
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:14.639
<v Speaker 1>is no longer able to she's no longer able to move,

777
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.199
<v Speaker 1>she's she had a stroke. She's not really there, and

778
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 1>he's not She's not able to enjoy it.

779
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:22.440
<v Speaker 2>What he worked for.

780
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Oz is able to put her in the highest room

781
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.679
<v Speaker 1>in Gotham, where she's able to look out, but she's

782
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.000
<v Speaker 1>not able to enjoy it.

783
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:33.440
<v Speaker 2>But because I actually that go ahead, that's he is

784
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>purposefully putting her through that torture because of what she

785
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.199
<v Speaker 2>says to him in this finale episode.

786
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. I think that he's I think

787
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:47.000
<v Speaker 1>he's doing it because no, but he always wanted to

788
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 1>get her approval and he always wanted her love. And

789
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 1>he's like, this is what I summis to you, and

790
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.519
<v Speaker 1>this is what I promised you, and you pretty much

791
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.519
<v Speaker 1>said that if I do this, you're gonna love me.

792
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:01.599
<v Speaker 1>And while she wasn't able to talk, he had the

793
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:03.239
<v Speaker 1>prostitute dressed as his mother.

794
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah and bizarre, but to that point, I think part

795
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.400
<v Speaker 2>of that why he's showing her and keeping her alive. There, mom,

796
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:12.679
<v Speaker 2>I did it. But now he's bragging about it because

797
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.519
<v Speaker 2>she also doubted him, which is what he finds out

798
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.199
<v Speaker 2>in this episode. Now he's sticking it to her. He's

799
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:19.320
<v Speaker 2>not he's not show.

800
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.039
<v Speaker 1>She did not doubt him. She wanted him dead. She

801
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:22.920
<v Speaker 1>fucking hates him.

802
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.880
<v Speaker 2>She said that, yeah, but didn't believe in him, and

803
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.280
<v Speaker 2>that is revealed in this episode.

804
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:31.239
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty me beyond doubt and not believing she wanted

805
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:31.880
<v Speaker 1>him dead.

806
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I know, but Oz doesn't find that out until this episode.

807
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:38.400
<v Speaker 2>So I think that that culmination her on the hospital

808
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.599
<v Speaker 2>bed on the eighty seventh floor, I think is him

809
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>his last laugh to her, him sticking it to her.

810
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.679
<v Speaker 2>I do like that that club that they show Monroe's

811
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Club in the past and the present, that plays a

812
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 2>big role on this That was a nice little setting.

813
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I am so so so glad that Sophia fal Cone

814
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:58.559
<v Speaker 2>didn't get killed. Where she ends up back in Arkham

815
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.800
<v Speaker 2>is so much better and so much worse for her character.

816
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.119
<v Speaker 2>I loved that scene. She was ready for death, she

817
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:08.519
<v Speaker 2>was accepting death. Fine, do it, I'm over it. I'm

818
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:10.719
<v Speaker 2>happy where I am. I'm happy with who I've become.

819
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:14.480
<v Speaker 2>And instead she's going back to Arkham. And on top

820
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.719
<v Speaker 2>of it, all of that exonerates Oz from everything, and

821
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:20.599
<v Speaker 2>it's a quote unquote a fate worse than death. She's

822
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:22.159
<v Speaker 2>going to hell, She's back in Arkham.

823
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I could have used a better Easter Egg at Arkham,

824
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.719
<v Speaker 1>like a character than Magpie.

825
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I don't even know who that is, but.

826
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:36.679
<v Speaker 1>You know what, maybe a young doctor named Harley and Quinzel.

827
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, I do think there is some some people are

828
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:43.880
<v Speaker 2>a little over the joker Harley Quinn thing. So I'm glad.

829
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying more like, she's not Harley Quinn yet, she's

830
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 1>just the doctor there.

831
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sure, sure. We get a couple of snippets here

832
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.960
<v Speaker 2>of Bella Reale. You know, they're at the courthouse or whatever,

833
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.559
<v Speaker 2>at the whatever, which is nice because you know she

834
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.239
<v Speaker 2>has a decent relationship with Bruce in the movie. So

835
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:03.440
<v Speaker 2>that'll I'll come back to Goose Point. Oz thinks he's

836
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.239
<v Speaker 2>made out like a bandit in this finale, comes to

837
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:09.960
<v Speaker 2>find out his mom has begun a carrot. She's a vegetable.

838
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 2>She's not She's not able to really enjoy anything in

839
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:18.440
<v Speaker 2>life anymore. She's essentially brain dead. She's there, but she's not.

840
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.519
<v Speaker 1>And she made a point either episode one or two

841
00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 1>being like, don't let me get to this point. Kill me.

842
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this all plays in that's that was in

843
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.559
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm I'm thinking about sort of stumbling

844
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.360
<v Speaker 2>upon now when I think about it in my head.

845
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:39.199
<v Speaker 2>Ultimately this ruins the series of Dexter. But in Dexter

846
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Final ruins Dexter when Julie Ben's gets killed. That was

847
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the last tether Dexter had to being a human being

848
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:51.360
<v Speaker 2>in this The last tether that Oz had was his

849
00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.519
<v Speaker 2>mother and the well being of his mother. And what

850
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:56.559
<v Speaker 2>happens in the first scene after he finds out his

851
00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:59.800
<v Speaker 2>mother isn't there, he kills Vic. And what a visceral

852
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:03.880
<v Speaker 2>seeing that as it was heart wrenching, obviously emotional. I

853
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 2>think we all start coming, right, we all knew this

854
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:07.400
<v Speaker 2>was the end game. I don't know.

855
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.840
<v Speaker 1>The first thing he says is you're like family to me,

856
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 1>and then he Moid is him.

857
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what Oz is realizing.

858
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:16.440
<v Speaker 1>He can't have family, That's what he realized.

859
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he realizes Vic is a weakness for him, the

860
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:21.559
<v Speaker 2>way his mother was someone that could hold him back.

861
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:26.000
<v Speaker 2>And the extra thing there is I think also Oz

862
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:28.880
<v Speaker 2>is a little worried that Vic is too similar to

863
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.719
<v Speaker 2>him and eventually Vic might try to overthrow him the

864
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:33.840
<v Speaker 2>way Oz did with all the people of authority in

865
00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:37.280
<v Speaker 2>his life. So it was twofold. There a very very

866
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.599
<v Speaker 2>visceral scene and really shows you he becomes the penguin

867
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>in this moment. Right, he was Oz and now he's

868
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:43.400
<v Speaker 2>the penguin.

869
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:44.239
<v Speaker 1>He starts going.

870
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:48.599
<v Speaker 2>And then he fucking robs him afterwards.

871
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:53.960
<v Speaker 1>That was the best part of it, though brutal. Thanks

872
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.519
<v Speaker 1>for the twenty bucks, kid, I can go get some

873
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:57.320
<v Speaker 1>slush puppies.

874
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:01.400
<v Speaker 2>We see Sophia back in Arkham and what's his face?

875
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Julian Rush comes in with a letter addressed to

876
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:08.599
<v Speaker 2>her from her half sister, and go call me a

877
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:13.280
<v Speaker 2>fucking moron. I completely forgot It's a major part of

878
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.679
<v Speaker 2>the Batman and I hadn't rewatched it.

879
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I know that you don't like listening to me, but

880
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.199
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned it on a news dump roughly four weeks ago.

881
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wasn't paying attention. I completely forgot that her

882
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:32.199
<v Speaker 2>half sister is Selena Kyle. So Selena Kyle shoots her

883
00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:36.920
<v Speaker 2>a telegram at Arkham, and I guess this is a

884
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.679
<v Speaker 2>pretty decent storyline in the comics, so they're gonna obviously

885
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.880
<v Speaker 2>play with this. I would be surprised if Selena doesn't, like,

886
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe try to break Sophia out of Arkham or something

887
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:48.480
<v Speaker 2>like that. That'd be kind of interesting to see going forward.

888
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Maybe there is a lawyer that can help them, maybe

889
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.920
<v Speaker 1>a da Maybe there is a RV.

890
00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Dent hey, hey, And again, compare these or contrasting these

891
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.840
<v Speaker 2>two characters as we talked about Oz is seeking the

892
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:08.800
<v Speaker 2>way that people look at Sophia in this world the hangman.

893
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Oz is seeking that and Sophia is trying to get

894
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 2>away from it. It's a great back and forth. And

895
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:18.519
<v Speaker 2>then secondary to that, Oz has learned he wants no family.

896
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:21.559
<v Speaker 2>But by the end of this Sophia is like comforted

897
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:23.880
<v Speaker 2>by the fact that she still has family left. Yes,

898
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.119
<v Speaker 2>she desires that, she seeks that, and it's just funny

899
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:29.280
<v Speaker 2>to see how these two are thrown into the same

900
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.079
<v Speaker 2>blender and they end up in completely different spots.

901
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:35.039
<v Speaker 1>Really like that how at the end of episode four

902
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:38.679
<v Speaker 1>when she murders her whole family and she embraces being

903
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:41.239
<v Speaker 1>the hangman and she stops wearing stuff around her neck

904
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 1>and then you have like the the little things around

905
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.800
<v Speaker 1>her neck. She's not afraid to show him off anymore

906
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:49.559
<v Speaker 1>because if that's what people want, that's what she'll give them.

907
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.039
<v Speaker 2>And I also like like because in that scene, what

908
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:56.039
<v Speaker 2>she's realizing is they aren't her family that might be

909
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:58.519
<v Speaker 2>by blood, and that's why she goes by Jigante after that.

910
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:00.599
<v Speaker 2>They weren't her family members, they just happened to be

911
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.400
<v Speaker 2>related to her, So that that's why that episode was

912
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.599
<v Speaker 2>the best episode of the season, and that's why Sophia

913
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Falcone is the best character in this show. Good We

914
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.960
<v Speaker 2>get as he walks into this whatever one hundred and

915
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:15.679
<v Speaker 2>four penthouse, he's holding the top hat, puts it down

916
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:18.119
<v Speaker 2>next to the umbrella, and we see he's wearing the

917
00:46:18.199 --> 00:46:21.760
<v Speaker 2>tuxedo as well. He's in his full penguin ensemble. They

918
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:23.360
<v Speaker 2>don't really beat you over the head with it, but

919
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:26.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a nice little nod to what the character generally

920
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:26.679
<v Speaker 2>looks like.

921
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:28.840
<v Speaker 1>In the comments, I wanted him to pick up an

922
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.920
<v Speaker 1>umbrella to shoot someone. And then it opens and there's

923
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:36.440
<v Speaker 1>a carousel on there and he says, ah, a trick umbrella.

924
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.559
<v Speaker 2>We get to the final scene with him and Eve

925
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.880
<v Speaker 2>and him and his mother. Eve is wearing his mother's dress.

926
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:47.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a very bizarre scene speaks to how insane Oz is,

927
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:51.880
<v Speaker 2>and again Oz gets everything he wants wants ultimately, but

928
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a tragic end because he works so hard to

929
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.599
<v Speaker 2>get where he has and now his mom can't even

930
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:59.960
<v Speaker 2>reap the benefits of it. All his loved ones are

931
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 2>dead ye and it's just him and Eve has this quote,

932
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 2>nothing's standing in your way now, and then we get

933
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:08.719
<v Speaker 2>the bat signal.

934
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Right, And he also something that he always wanted was

935
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:15.760
<v Speaker 1>that he wanted to be like Rex, and he wanted

936
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the admiration and the love of his.

937
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:18.599
<v Speaker 2>He wants to be like Sophia.

938
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, he wanted to be more like Rex. He wanted

939
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:23.440
<v Speaker 1>the admiration and the love of his community. He wanted

940
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:26.599
<v Speaker 1>to be the person that everyone goes to. But he

941
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:30.039
<v Speaker 1>also made the point of like he's cut ties with

942
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:35.880
<v Speaker 1>everybody now and he hasn't quite gotten that. So he's

943
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:40.760
<v Speaker 1>using you know, his female friend there to just just

944
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:42.960
<v Speaker 1>tell him what he wants to hear in his warped

945
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:46.280
<v Speaker 1>mind of what he now believes the world is.

946
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and going forward here, I guess we'll start with

947
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.679
<v Speaker 2>the Oz stuff. I think it's pretty clear with him

948
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:57.199
<v Speaker 2>in that scene in the courtroom, in the Mayor's chair whatever,

949
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.719
<v Speaker 2>they're going to pursue this whole Mayor Penguin, mayor ODZ

950
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.519
<v Speaker 2>storyline that's popped up a couple times before, and I

951
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:07.239
<v Speaker 2>think that definitely lays the groundwork for Court of Vowel stuff, right,

952
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:08.239
<v Speaker 2>Like that's gonna have to.

953
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Play any buy like, yeah, Batman three or a show

954
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:12.280
<v Speaker 1>or something like that.

955
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe in between but I think you'll get the

956
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.800
<v Speaker 2>groundwork laid for that in the second movie. Dude. One

957
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:21.760
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest questions or theories online is that doctor

958
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Julian Rush, who we see help Sophia and still his

959
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:26.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of helping Sophia at the end, You're not quite

960
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:30.320
<v Speaker 2>sure is he gonna be a meaningful character going forward.

961
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:32.800
<v Speaker 2>There were some Scarecrow talk right away, but I think

962
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:35.639
<v Speaker 2>I think you might be on to what he really

963
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:36.119
<v Speaker 2>is gonna be.

964
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think that he might be the Mad Hatter.

965
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:43.320
<v Speaker 1>I think that they're gonna go a little outside the

966
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:45.840
<v Speaker 1>box here and just not use all the same Christopher

967
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Nolan characters as well. But the Mad Hatter is a

968
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 1>master hypnotist, which we see in most of the episodes

969
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:57.320
<v Speaker 1>here with him, he has those red red lights that

970
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.199
<v Speaker 1>people kind of thought, oh, that's like a fear talks

971
00:48:59.239 --> 00:48:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and no, it's.

972
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:01.599
<v Speaker 2>It's not giving Scarecrow at all.

973
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.800
<v Speaker 1>No, he's a Gotham City adversary of Batman. Jarvis Tech

974
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:09.760
<v Speaker 1>is the character's name. He's delusional and believes that he

975
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:13.960
<v Speaker 1>is the incarnation of the Hatter from Alice in Wonderland.

976
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.760
<v Speaker 1>But they could also kind of make that more of

977
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:21.639
<v Speaker 1>a reality thing where he believes that he's something more

978
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:25.480
<v Speaker 1>than he is. And I know in certain comics or

979
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:30.159
<v Speaker 1>in the Batman the animated series, he obsesses over a

980
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:33.400
<v Speaker 1>woman named Alice. You could just substitute that with he

981
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:34.760
<v Speaker 1>obsesses over Sophia.

982
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And we've already seen this universe change names a

983
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.119
<v Speaker 2>little bit. We've seen it in the Spider Man movies.

984
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:43.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, mj isn't Mary Jane. Like, I'm perfectly fine

985
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>changing names of most characters. It doesn't fly to me

986
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:46.400
<v Speaker 2>too much.

987
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Actually, Julian Rush not that far off. We're looking syllables

988
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.880
<v Speaker 1>with Jervis Lush. Yeah.

989
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Close. Another thing people were talking about online, and I

990
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.840
<v Speaker 2>don't really subscribe to this because I think it's pretty

991
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:01.519
<v Speaker 2>definitive at the end there people were wondering if vic

992
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:04.599
<v Speaker 2>is one hundred percent dead again? This is a comic

993
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:07.679
<v Speaker 2>book franchise. After also, is anyone really dead to me?

994
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.239
<v Speaker 2>I think so yes, But they think he could come

995
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:11.880
<v Speaker 2>back and play something down the line.

996
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:14.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because people were saying of Victor Zaz but was

997
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:15.679
<v Speaker 1>that just because of his name?

998
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Probably? Yeah, yea, that makes sense. And then of course

999
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:23.320
<v Speaker 2>we get this Sophia Selena storyline that's brewing and I

1000
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.320
<v Speaker 2>think I think for sure what we'll get the groundwork

1001
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.119
<v Speaker 2>laid for in the second movie and maybe see in

1002
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:34.239
<v Speaker 2>a second show is Sophia Selena's stuff or maybe that

1003
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.039
<v Speaker 2>comes up in the movie, and then Oz and court

1004
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.320
<v Speaker 2>of Owl's type of stuff more more of the politicking,

1005
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.039
<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes stuff of Gotham that we haven't seen

1006
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:44.000
<v Speaker 2>too too much yet.

1007
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think that you could do and

1008
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:47.320
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna get to this more on your sack, but

1009
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:49.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that you could do an amazing job with

1010
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.679
<v Speaker 1>a character that we have seen many times, but given

1011
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:58.480
<v Speaker 1>eight episodes, Harvey Dent, you could really flesh out that character.

1012
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:01.239
<v Speaker 1>Like think to the Dark Night. We we got a

1013
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:03.719
<v Speaker 1>lot of Harvey Dent, not a lot of two face.

1014
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:06.639
<v Speaker 2>The only thing I'll say to that, Ku and this

1015
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 2>will we will have to see who the villain's going

1016
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to be in the second movie. But I don't want

1017
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:13.920
<v Speaker 2>to happen, which happens a ton in third movies of trilogies,

1018
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:16.679
<v Speaker 2>as them throw like eight villains on the last movie

1019
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 2>because there's so many people in play, so they sort

1020
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Speaker 2>of have to concentrate, you know, pick a couple of

1021
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.000
<v Speaker 2>lanes here. They can't do too much. Well.

1022
00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.039
<v Speaker 1>No, but even if you have a bunch of villains

1023
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:27.159
<v Speaker 1>that you show in the shows or like even to

1024
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 1>show for a second in the movies, they don't have

1025
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to be central characters to the movies.

1026
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:34.639
<v Speaker 2>No, I know, but once you introduce them, you kind

1027
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:36.519
<v Speaker 2>of have to sort of see that through.

1028
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.039
<v Speaker 1>No, because if you do a ton of Harvey Dent

1029
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:40.639
<v Speaker 1>and then you end two face and then you just

1030
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:42.320
<v Speaker 1>put them in Arkham, then you're all set.

1031
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, then you're like, why did we even do this?

1032
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're giving me more Sophia fl Cone, I'm

1033
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 1>gonna take it.

1034
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Sure, sure, all right, God, I don't think we need

1035
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to run through episode by episode. I think we kind

1036
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:53.320
<v Speaker 2>of hit everything.

1037
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:56.039
<v Speaker 1>No, but I will mention I do love the slush

1038
00:51:56.079 --> 00:51:58.599
<v Speaker 1>puppy stuff from the first episode end.

1039
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Of the first episode. Yeah.

1040
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I do like the flashbacks to Arkham with Sophia in

1041
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:05.480
<v Speaker 1>her episodes.

1042
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:07.159
<v Speaker 2>That was episode three or episode four.

1043
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Actually, I also love seeing her breaking point of when

1044
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:13.440
<v Speaker 1>she's like, fuck it, I'm gonna start killing people. Vic's

1045
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:16.360
<v Speaker 1>crown point backstory was very good, and then also when

1046
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:18.800
<v Speaker 1>he took the penguin's mom there and she's like fuck

1047
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:21.679
<v Speaker 1>him back and Crown Point. Are we serious right now?

1048
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:27.920
<v Speaker 2>I think too there could have been born here. But

1049
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.880
<v Speaker 2>because they wrote the characters so well, we were so

1050
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.920
<v Speaker 2>invested in these characters that all this backstory stuff and

1051
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:37.239
<v Speaker 2>all this flashback stuff really worked. We see that done

1052
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:38.920
<v Speaker 2>in other shows that it doesn't work because you don't

1053
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:41.079
<v Speaker 2>care about the characters, but it worked for this show.

1054
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Two things. Actually, there's a really good in Crown Point.

1055
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:47.239
<v Speaker 1>You can see where the water level was, like where

1056
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:50.320
<v Speaker 1>it hit with like the discolorations on the buildings and

1057
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.119
<v Speaker 1>on the houses there. And then also I love how

1058
00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:55.360
<v Speaker 1>if there's a big crowd of people, kind of like

1059
00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:59.159
<v Speaker 1>a protest, you'll see random posters for the Riddler in there.

1060
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, still a thing.

1061
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Episode four is the best of the episodes. I would

1062
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:08.159
<v Speaker 1>say Episode five has the cooking with Maroni and Sophia.

1063
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.199
<v Speaker 1>He makes that delicious egg plant soup.

1064
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I believe it was the most fotherly experienced she had

1065
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 2>ever had, which was which was nice for the character.

1066
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Episode five I believe kills Squid I Hate Squid might

1067
00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:20.599
<v Speaker 1>be episode six actually, I think.

1068
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:24.639
<v Speaker 2>I think it was, uh yeah, somewhere in there when

1069
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Vic just gets sick of him and finally shoots some

1070
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:27.239
<v Speaker 2>of the face.

1071
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.639
<v Speaker 1>And then I believe Episode five is when him is

1072
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:33.679
<v Speaker 1>when Oz and Vic finally cut ties. Come Actually, episode

1073
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:37.199
<v Speaker 1>three is when he cuts ties with Sophia because uh

1074
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Vic hits the Marony's and leaves Sophia for dead pream.

1075
00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.039
<v Speaker 2>They jumped the flashback at the at the end of

1076
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:47.559
<v Speaker 2>episode three. Beginning of four, episode five, Oz has TikTok. Well,

1077
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:49.840
<v Speaker 2>TikTok's on the phone. I don't know if Oz has TikTok.

1078
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 1>I was like a check out my scroll. He starts

1079
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:58.960
<v Speaker 1>scrolling through by dance. Uh oh the drug Layer. I

1080
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:01.119
<v Speaker 1>love how he goes his drug layer is where he

1081
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:01.920
<v Speaker 1>killed his brothers.

1082
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a really fucked up thing. We already harped

1083
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:09.480
<v Speaker 2>on it again. I guess no one really knows where

1084
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:13.559
<v Speaker 2>the bat Cave is, but seemingly building your drug layer

1085
00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:16.599
<v Speaker 2>in an underground tunnel system where Batman is lingering is

1086
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:17.639
<v Speaker 2>a bad idea.

1087
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.639
<v Speaker 1>I also love when Maroney dies and Oz is like,

1088
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you fuck, I'm supposed to kill you. Don't die of

1089
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:25.280
<v Speaker 1>a heart attack.

1090
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:29.000
<v Speaker 2>And then he shoots him like three times. Oh. Here's

1091
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 2>the big thing with the timeline that I really felt

1092
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:33.880
<v Speaker 2>like it had to have taken place over a couple

1093
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:36.360
<v Speaker 2>of months. So he gets that underground layer and what

1094
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:38.800
<v Speaker 2>are we maybe a week two weeks into the show,

1095
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:42.639
<v Speaker 2>it cuts to later the whole layer is filled with

1096
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.159
<v Speaker 2>mushrooms that had to have taken weeks to grow all

1097
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:47.719
<v Speaker 2>that shit. So this show for sure had to have

1098
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.639
<v Speaker 2>taken place over like six weeks to two months. And

1099
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:52.440
<v Speaker 2>if it's any less than that, I'm gonna have a

1100
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.360
<v Speaker 2>hard time believing the timeline here I am.

1101
00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 1>I think we're good. I think we're good. On Yeah,

1102
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:04.320
<v Speaker 1>I love the show. I enjoyed it greatly, but mentioned Batman.

1103
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Please let's get into Maxack and Mac Sak could be

1104
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:17.119
<v Speaker 1>anything that could be a boat, and we will look

1105
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:21.039
<v Speaker 1>at what is coming up in this universe. What did

1106
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Matt Reeves say? Mac?

1107
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:26.159
<v Speaker 2>Of course, coming off our award winning Figy says, we're

1108
00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:31.039
<v Speaker 2>here with Reeves says Goo. Reeves says The Penguin Season

1109
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:35.360
<v Speaker 2>two is now being discussed. I think this began as

1110
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 2>a one off mini series, and now I think because

1111
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.760
<v Speaker 2>people like this show so much and because there's more

1112
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.079
<v Speaker 2>story to tell, they're beginning to discuss the second season

1113
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:48.920
<v Speaker 2>of this. I ask you, do we need it? Do

1114
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:49.559
<v Speaker 2>we want it.

1115
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I need it. I think I

1116
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 1>would prefer getting other characters. Do I want it? Sure,

1117
00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:58.679
<v Speaker 1>I would definitely watch. I know. At the beginning of

1118
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:00.880
<v Speaker 1>the season, Colin Ferrell made a point of like, I

1119
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:03.480
<v Speaker 1>don't want to do a season two. This is a

1120
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:05.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of makeup and a lot of time.

1121
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we've told our Oz Penguin story here.

1122
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:12.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't think we need a penguin season two. I'm

1123
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:14.800
<v Speaker 2>happy to watch him pop up in other stories in

1124
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>this universe. I don't think I need it. I don't

1125
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:19.039
<v Speaker 2>think I want it. I think it's just going to

1126
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:23.000
<v Speaker 2>diminish what we've already gotten to that point. Carlin Ferrell

1127
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.840
<v Speaker 2>has already revealed that he has five or six scenes

1128
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:29.719
<v Speaker 2>in The Batman two and is attached to star in

1129
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:31.599
<v Speaker 2>that third movie. Yeah, so we already know he's not

1130
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:33.679
<v Speaker 2>going to die into which makes sense. I think he's

1131
00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:35.719
<v Speaker 2>still gonna be kind of playing behind the scenes in

1132
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:39.079
<v Speaker 2>the second movie. So maybe there is ram for season

1133
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:41.159
<v Speaker 2>two between movie two and three. I don't know.

1134
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:43.199
<v Speaker 1>Colin Farrell was also on Hot Ones. I don't know

1135
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:44.880
<v Speaker 1>if it was recently, whatever it is, but he was

1136
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:48.199
<v Speaker 1>talking about how actors always talk about you know, you

1137
00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:51.320
<v Speaker 1>do one artsy movie for yourself and then a blockbuster

1138
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:53.639
<v Speaker 1>for you know, for the money or for the fans,

1139
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:55.599
<v Speaker 1>and it's like, no, this is this is all for

1140
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:58.119
<v Speaker 1>you because you get the money from that movie and

1141
00:56:58.159 --> 00:57:00.000
<v Speaker 1>then you get to act it up in this one.

1142
00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:02.000
<v Speaker 1>And so stop saying one for you, one for me,

1143
00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:05.000
<v Speaker 1>It's all for you.

1144
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Eat both twigs.

1145
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I love Colin Ferrell.

1146
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:08.159
<v Speaker 2>He's pretty great.

1147
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:09.960
<v Speaker 1>So then the question that I hear for you, Mac

1148
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.199
<v Speaker 1>is if we're not going to get a Penguin, which

1149
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if we need another Penguin season, what

1150
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:19.679
<v Speaker 1>Batman character would you like to see get their own

1151
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:20.800
<v Speaker 1>season of television.

1152
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:23.960
<v Speaker 2>So I think it'll tie in well, and you've already

1153
00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:26.159
<v Speaker 2>mentioned Tim, I think it would tie in well with

1154
00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:29.800
<v Speaker 2>what they're building underneath. The overall story is this Gotham

1155
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:34.880
<v Speaker 2>and the politics and the corrupt politics. Really feels like

1156
00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:37.599
<v Speaker 2>a Harvey Dent Court of Vowel situation would play out

1157
00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:40.400
<v Speaker 2>really well. So I do think like a two faced

1158
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Dent type of season would would work really well.

1159
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:48.639
<v Speaker 2>I feel like this second movie, the closure we get

1160
00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:51.000
<v Speaker 2>to it, I'm starting to feel like more and more

1161
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.679
<v Speaker 2>it's gonna be mister Freeze as the villain, and we're

1162
00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:57.320
<v Speaker 2>dealing with a winter type of setting. It's been awfully

1163
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:00.280
<v Speaker 2>silent on the villain front with this movie, and we

1164
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.559
<v Speaker 2>have introduced and talked about other villains. So I'm starting

1165
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:05.239
<v Speaker 2>to think Freeze is going to be the primary villain

1166
00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:06.079
<v Speaker 2>of The Batman too.

1167
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say because I would love a mister

1168
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Freeze television show. I don't know how cost effective that

1169
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:14.800
<v Speaker 1>would be though, because his power is the cgi the

1170
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:17.840
<v Speaker 1>effects that you would need for that character. I would

1171
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:19.519
<v Speaker 1>love a Heart of Ice type of story.

1172
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:22.920
<v Speaker 2>But I think that backstory you can do in a movie.

1173
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:24.280
<v Speaker 1>No, No, you can still do it in the movie.

1174
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:26.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying I want mister Freeze. I would really

1175
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:29.719
<v Speaker 1>like mister Freeze. I think if you're looking to spend

1176
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the same amount of money, like you know, not a

1177
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:36.159
<v Speaker 1>ton of effects. More a dialogue driven show, a character

1178
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:38.400
<v Speaker 1>driven show, Harvey Dent makes a lot of sense because

1179
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:41.559
<v Speaker 1>you can just pick up this story with Harvey Dent

1180
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:45.159
<v Speaker 1>and how he'll now deal with these characters. I really

1181
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:47.800
<v Speaker 1>would love, and I don't think they would do. This

1182
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:51.639
<v Speaker 1>is a clayface television show. I think there is a

1183
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:55.519
<v Speaker 1>lot that you can do with this actor who is

1184
00:58:55.599 --> 00:58:59.599
<v Speaker 1>aging and then gets into a car accident disfigured, much

1185
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.559
<v Speaker 1>like this substance relies on something to make him good

1186
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:05.119
<v Speaker 1>looking again, and then this starts to warp his body

1187
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:05.719
<v Speaker 1>in his mind.

1188
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think that's a bad idea. They just

1189
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:10.840
<v Speaker 2>haven't laid the groundwork for any of that, so it

1190
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.119
<v Speaker 2>would catch me by surprise if they went that route.

1191
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.920
<v Speaker 1>You also need a big enough name, like maybe you

1192
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:18.400
<v Speaker 1>could do a clay Face in the background. Could do

1193
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't even think you could do a Mad Hatter show.

1194
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:23.679
<v Speaker 1>You would need him to be a background character.

1195
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:26.159
<v Speaker 2>That's why I also starting to think because to me,

1196
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:29.280
<v Speaker 2>like Riddler is not a tier B tier villain, which

1197
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:32.480
<v Speaker 2>is why I loved Readler in the first movie. And

1198
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.199
<v Speaker 2>I think Freeze is in that same tier, which is

1199
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:36.880
<v Speaker 2>why it's starting to feel more and more like that.

1200
00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:39.639
<v Speaker 1>I think you could name a show Freeze. I think

1201
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:42.039
<v Speaker 1>you could name a show two Face. I think that

1202
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:44.119
<v Speaker 1>there are characters like that. I don't want a joker show.

1203
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:44.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm all set with that.

1204
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I agree, but we're joking out for now.

1205
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:50.119
<v Speaker 1>I think you need at least a B level villain,

1206
00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:53.320
<v Speaker 1>someone I think you need a villain that popped up

1207
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:57.679
<v Speaker 1>many times on the Adam West Show or someone that

1208
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:01.280
<v Speaker 1>was in the Burton Schumacher verse. Those are pretty well

1209
01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:05.000
<v Speaker 1>known villains. I think once you go deeper into the

1210
01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:08.760
<v Speaker 1>CD level, that might be a tough sell for HBO.

1211
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Well. Yeah, and they also haven't really gotten into the

1212
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, souped up power types like poison Ivy, So

1213
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:18.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't think we're gonna deal with and Ivy in

1214
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:21.639
<v Speaker 2>this universe. You know, something would have to happen. Maybe

1215
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.719
<v Speaker 2>the free stuff gets that roll in a little bit.

1216
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:26.960
<v Speaker 2>But like because it has been very real realism has

1217
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.800
<v Speaker 2>been part of this Reeves verse, so it'll be interesting

1218
01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:32.599
<v Speaker 2>to see if they cross that line at all and

1219
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:35.039
<v Speaker 2>get into some of that more supernatural shit.

1220
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:37.800
<v Speaker 1>I also would have loved really anyone from the bat family,

1221
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:41.400
<v Speaker 1>whether it be any of the Robins or Batgirl, but

1222
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:44.920
<v Speaker 1>we're in year two of Batman, possibly getting closer to

1223
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>year three, we wouldn't have any of those characters yet.

1224
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Hush is the other one that everyone wanted when

1225
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:52.280
<v Speaker 2>the first movie can't finished. There there's a lot of

1226
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:54.239
<v Speaker 2>talk of that, so I think, to me, it's down

1227
01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:56.639
<v Speaker 2>to Hush to freeze for this for the second movie,

1228
01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:59.320
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully we'll have that answer within the next few months,

1229
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:01.559
<v Speaker 2>right once they start shooting and we're gonna have a

1230
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:02.719
<v Speaker 2>good idea of where the villain is.

1231
01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:05.079
<v Speaker 1>All right, Mac, where can the people find us?

1232
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.599
<v Speaker 2>You can find us on x and on Instagram, at

1233
01:01:07.719 --> 01:01:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Mac and goop podcast every other platform. We are mac

1234
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:15.840
<v Speaker 2>ampersan Goo that includes Max seven, Go thcludes Facebook, Sitch

1235
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:18.360
<v Speaker 2>your tuning, Castbucks, speak of Google Play. I alright, radio.

1236
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:21.880
<v Speaker 2>We are on Spotify, but more importantly we're on Apple Podcasts.

1237
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Get on their rate review, subscribe five stars. If you

1238
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:25.639
<v Speaker 2>do that, we'll get your free Mac and Go T

1239
01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:28.679
<v Speaker 2>shirt from the folks over at Watertown Sports Where Watertown Sports

1240
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.880
<v Speaker 2>We're on thirty four mot Auburn Street in Watertown. Watertown

1241
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Sportswear dot com experts, screenprinting and embroidered.

1242
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Tepupk dot com check us out. At the beginning of

1243
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:42.320
<v Speaker 1>next week four a news dump. And then we're getting

1244
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:43.400
<v Speaker 1>close to movies.

1245
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we have uh I know next weekend Gladiator, Gladiators

1246
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:53.119
<v Speaker 2>next week, I believe, so we'll see oh yeah, and

1247
01:01:53.239 --> 01:01:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Wicked right Wicked, Yeah, So I guess we'll probably do

1248
01:01:57.559 --> 01:01:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Gladiator at some point.

1249
01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Let's just do a fucking feature and we'll call it

1250
01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:02.880
<v Speaker 1>one of those dumb names that everyone has.

1251
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:08.000
<v Speaker 2>What's it called clicked, clicked or or Wadiator.

1252
01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:11.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go Watiator. I like that better. Okay, all right, sure,

1253
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:21.599
<v Speaker 1>so check us out. Then Tam Burton by ye please

1254
01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:24.559
<v Speaker 1>flip the cassette over to side B to continue the adventure.

1255
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Now it's time for girls jumping on trampolines.