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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep

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dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,

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and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,

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Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the

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world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to

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illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that

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truly matter. Why are we here, where are we going?

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And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and

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our consciousness to the next level. This is a space

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for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember

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who you really are. So take a deep breath, open

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your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul. Now.

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next level, explore Next Level Soul TV, our streaming platform

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your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your

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journey today at Next Levelsoul dot TV. The views opinions

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Level Soul Its host or any of the companies they represent.

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Now let's dive into today's episode. I like to welcome

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to the show, Selima Adelstein. How are you doing, Selena

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sank Thank you so much for being here, My dear,

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I'm I'm so excited to talk to you because I've

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never had a Sufi or anyone that understands Sufism on

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the show before, because it's kind of mysterious. It's even

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more mysterious than then. You know, there's obviously there's Christian mystics,

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there's Jewish mystics, and obviously in Buddhism and Hinduism there's

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a lot of mysticism as well, yogic and all of that.

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But Sufism is very interesting because I just don't know,

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I literally know, other than the dancing, that's all. That's

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all I really know about Sufism. I really haven't gone

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too deep in it so well, First and foremost, how

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did your journey begin into Sufism? What was the moment

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you kind of awakened to that road? As opposed to

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so many others in the world.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was meditating for twenty five years, so I

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really wasn't looking for Sufism or anything else. I was

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perfectly content with my meditation practices. I was having beautiful experiences.

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And I had just come back from India. I had

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been studying with different gurus over the air and spiritual healing,

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and I was teaching a workshop in New Mexico at

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the time, and a friend said, Hey, there's a Sufi

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master that's in town. I know you like meeting new people.

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Why don't you go over and see what he has

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to offer. So I was up for a good adventure,

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so I went over. I like you, I didn't know

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much about Sufism at the time. And I walked into

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this yard and there were statues of Buddha and ganeshs

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the little that I knew. It was taking me a

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little bit by surprise, saying, gee, I didn't know that

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Sufism had anything to do with Buddha or Ganesh or

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any of these things that I'm seeing in this backyard.

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And I walked into the house and this and I

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mean huge, this huge man about two hundred and twenty

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pounds greets me with this huge hug and he says,

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my daughter, I'm so happy to see you. A life figure,

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Gene nice host of this house.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Turns out that was the Sufi Master. Wow, And I

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really was blown away everything that I thought I knew

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about mysticism and how men treated women in a spiritual setting.

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For all, I just came back from India, where everybody

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politely is now mistaying, and here is just shattering in

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one moment all my preconceived notions. It's like everything just

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blew apart in my internal being. And then he started

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to talk about the evolution of the soul and what

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happens in our soul as our soul reaches enlightenment and beyond.

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And he had me captivated at that point. And as

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I was watching him, I was noticing this absolutely brilliant

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light that was emanating from his being, and this absolutely

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embracing pure life. It's like a divine love that was

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just emanating from his being. I don't know if you've

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ever had those moments where you say, I want what

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they have, Yeah, And at that moment, that was my Aha,

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I want what he has, and I got initiated into

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this Sufi path in that moment, not knowing anything, and

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he gives you the name Salima, and it means the

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one whose heart rests in the deep peace of God. Well,

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I had to laugh, Alex, because that was not the

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state of my soul at that moment in time. I

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was a rebel. I was an activist. If there was

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a good cause, I was out on the street protesting.

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Peace was the farthest thing from my being. I was

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a drama queen.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough so, and he.

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Speaker 2: Invited me to come and studied with him in Jerusalem.

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While I was there, studying this ancient Sufi path and

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learning about the soul's evolution in the human body, I

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was so transformed that I found that inner piece within me.

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I found all the places of separation within my own

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body and within my own heart. That led me to

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a unity and a wholeness and a oneness that I

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never experienced before. So when I came back to the

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United States, I wanted to share it with everybody. You've

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got to experience this, So I set up a little

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spiritual retreat in at the time, I had a little studio.

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In my little studio and invited anybody who was curious

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to come and learn about this, and that was the

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start of what now is the university. What now is

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many Sufi communities all over the United States and the world.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So for everybody who doesn't know

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what Sufism is, can you tell us a little bit

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about what Sufism is.

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Speaker 2: Sufhism is a direct experience with the Most High with God.

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So we can talk about it, we can lecture about it.

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But what Sufi does is give you an actual, direct

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experience of that connection with the God within you and

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the God outside of you. It's a path of love

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that opens up all the channels if you will within

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you that don't know love to experience love. It allows

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your soul to break out of what I would call

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the prison of your ego and all your ego limitations

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into the unlimited possibility of what the jewels and the

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treasures of who you are, and how to bring that

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into life here in this world. We say in Sufism,

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die before you die. It's kind of a strange expression,

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but what we really mean when we say that is

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give yourself an experience to understand both the transcendental nature

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of the universe but also the omnipresence of God in everything,

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and to understand my age old questions, Who am I,

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what am I doing here? What is this world all about?

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And what is my purpose in it?

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Speaker 1: To my understanding, Sufhism is the kind of mystic arm

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of Islam. Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: That is correct, but it also goes beyond Islam, right

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to the beginning of creation, when God created the human being,

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and when God said to all the souls, am I

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not your Lord? And we answered yes, and God placed

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his light inside every single human being. And that's really

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the beginning of Sufism. It was brought to awakening through Islam,

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but in each each era of humanity there were different messengers,

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advertise prophets that came carry the same message. It was

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an opportunity for the human soul to awaken to its divinity,

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to its angelic soul.

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Speaker 1: What I find fascinating in my work is that I

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interview people from every walk of life, like yourself, and

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we talk to Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and yoga

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and masters and all this kind of stuff, and I

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just keep realizing that everyone is going to the same place.

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It's just a different it's just a different flavor of

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the message. Jesus said it, Buddha said it, you know,

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Mohammed said all of all, of all the one. We'll

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be right back after a word from our sponsor, and

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now back to the show all roads. You know, it's

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just like it's the the old proverb says, we're all

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seeing a different part of the of the elephant, you know,

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and we're all just but we're all moving in the

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same the same direction. So would this be kind of

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like and I'm just trying to wrap my head and

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also give examples for people to krynic grasp in the

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Jewish religion, it's uh, the Kabbalah is that the mystic

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aspect of Judaism. Am I wrong with that? Or am

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I correct? No?

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Speaker 2: That is and I am grew up in a Jewish tradition,

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So this was quite a if you will, is shocked

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to my family?

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Speaker 1: How'd that go? How'd that conversation go?

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Speaker 4: Mom?

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Speaker 1: Dad? Sit down?

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Speaker 2: It went better when I told it. Then when I

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was a teenager and I told them that I met

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Jesus on the.

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Speaker 1: Beach, Well, there's that.

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Speaker 2: That's I think that was a little bit more shocking

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to them.

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Speaker 1: They're like where are we gone wrong with this girl?

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Speaker 2: What happened to our daughter? But my mother said something

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very interesting. You know, they initially had a hard time

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with it, but as they saw the transformation in me,

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my mother said to her friends, she said, you know,

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I don't understand what my daughter is doing. But all

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I can tell you is she's the happiest I have

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ever seen her in my life. And what more had

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a daughter do for her mom?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: What more does mom want from her daughter? And when

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I went to my niece's bat mitza, that transition into

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adulthood when you're thirteen, there's major controversy in my family.

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What role am I going to play now that I'm

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in Islam and not Judaism? Right, forgetting the fact that

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it's all one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all part of the Abrahamic traditions even.

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Speaker 2: And it extends beyond religion.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So the rabbi decided that, well, okay, my name means peace.

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There's a prayer for peace in Judaism. I will do

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the prayer for peace. My brother said to me, that's

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all you can do. I don't want you up there

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talking anything more. Just do the prayer. Okay, I said,

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you got it, Dave, and these three older gentlemen came

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up and afterwards and I said, oh, here it is.

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It's coming. And they said, we have a question to

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ask you, and I said sure. I said, We've been

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going to temple every week all of our lives. They

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were about in their late seventies, early eighties. We've heard

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this prayer over and over again. This was the first

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time we felt peace when you said it. How is

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that possible You're not a Jew anymore?

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Speaker 1: That's fascinating. What I find fascinating, Salima, is you know

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I come from a Catholic background. Yeah, so I come

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from I'm sure he still feels guilty about it. So

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I you know, I've been exposed and I went to

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a Jewish preschool when I was when I was a

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little kid in New York. So I've been exposed to

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Judaism and Christianity most of my life in one way,

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shape or form, with either friends and family and so on.

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But what I find fascinating is this, and I wouldn't

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call it tribal, but the programming, societal programming, community programming

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that religions put into you when you're born, Because when

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you were born, you were just a little girl. You

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weren't a Jewish girl or a Christian girl or anything else.

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You were just a girl. And they and the programming

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is so so ingrained that you, being the odd duck out,

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you know, say hey, I'm with Islam now, not even Islam.

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I'm just going a different path than Judaism. That they

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can that little story with those those gentlemen is so

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powerful because they were like, wait a minute, I don't

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understand how I can still feel something that's not part

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of the programming or part of the traditions that I

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grew up with. And that's such an important part about it.

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I had the other day, I had a Christian near

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death experienceer on and I've had people comment and a

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lot of people came because of the Christian part, but

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they were completely confused about the idols and I wouldn't

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call them idols, the masters the avatars that I have

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up on my wall in the live studio. And they

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were just confused. They're like, wait a minute, I don't understand.

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Their programming was so ingrained in the you know, Jesus

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is the God, Jesus's Lord, all that kind of you

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know thing that they couldn't wrap their head around, you know,

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Buddha being up there or or Yogandanda or something you know,

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or Ganesh or Vishnu or anything like that. It's it's

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fascinating to me, and I'm trying and I'm hoping that

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these kinds of conversations open people up to break free

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from their programming, to understand that you can find it anywhere.

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You were on already a spiritual path.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like, absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You were not looking for Sufism if someone would have. So,

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if someone will walked up to you and go, hey,

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you know, I think what you need is Sufism, you'd

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be like, oh, okay, they move it along.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But that path connected with you, and it it

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brought you some It brought you something that you had

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just not felt before and the other paths, and that's

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perfectly fine, correct.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, because you know, I think every individual, whether they

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realize it or not, are searching for truth, are searching

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for meaning, are searching for who am i and what

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am I doing here? And whichever path you takes that

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answer those questions. For me, Sufism gave me the experience

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rather than the talking, and that's what made the difference.

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Then all of a sudden, and I mean, here I

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am a Jew in Palestine, right my programming, These are

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my enemies, of course, yeah, right to my enemies. And

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here I am in the home of a Palestine Sufi

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master who was only treating me like his daughter.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's what Jesus said, That's what Jesus said,

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That's what Buddha said.

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Speaker 2: They all they all say the same thing because it's true.

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But when you experience it. Before that, I didn't know.

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But when I experienced it, it's like, oh, yes, we

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know truth when we hear truth. You know, some people

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get goose pumps, some people get an awakening, some people

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get a sense of aha. But our human vessel, our soul,

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knowes truth when we hear it and when we experience it.

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And for me, I didn't realize, even though I was

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having wonderful experiences meditating, I didn't realize how much separation

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was existing within my heart, this separation of Jewishness and Palestinians,

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this separation between me as a female alan my brothers

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as a male. We carry all this separation within us.

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I was so locked into my own head that I

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had no idea all the turbulence that was going on

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within my heart. And what Sufism does is take that

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turbulence and bring it into a deep divine love and

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surrounds it with such peace and such calm and serenity

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that you get to we say, you see the world

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through God's eyes. You hear the sounds of the animals

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singing God's praise, You speak the words that move the

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hearts closer towards the one. Your hands become the hands

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by which God heals you. Sound like Roomy one of

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the great Sufis.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, he's one of the great

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great sufis of of any time, let alone art time.

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Speaker 2: And it's universal and that's why, even though a lot

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of it is based in Islam, it's absolutely a universal

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path for everyone, regardless of whether you're believing or not believing,

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whether you're an atheist or an agnostic.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important. And it's also one of

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the reasons I wanted you on the show is to

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show a different side of Islam, because you know, Islam

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does get a little bit of bad press.

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Speaker 2: And it's a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be kind, but like in every religion,

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I mean, there's extremists in Christianity, there's extreme there's even

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extremists in Buddhism. Uh, there's a screen of been hindu it.

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There's extremists in every religion and every philosophy. Even We'll

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be right back after a word from our sponsor and

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now back to the show. But I want when I

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heard I when I when I was doing my original

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studies back in back in the years and years go by,

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when I started studying world religions in college just for

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fun because I was interested in it. I discovered Zufism

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at that point and didn't go too deep into it,

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but I just was fascinated with like, huh, there's a

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mystical side to Islam, and then there's then there I've

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discovered the Cabal. I'm like, oh, there's a mystical side

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to Judaism, and then there's a mystical side to Christianity

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as well. So it's just like the mystical side is

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really interesting to me because that's away from the traditional path.

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Because a Sufi is so as a Sufi, what's the

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major difference between being a Sufi and being someone who

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just follows Islam or or you know, a run of

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the mill Muslim. If you.

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Speaker 2: Most, as you say, run at the mill Muslims. So

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most most born Muslims don't understand why they do certain rituals.

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You know, they pray five times a day, they follow

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the laws and the prohibitions, but they have no understanding

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of what we would call the hoki ka or the

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inner truth, the mystical reasons behind it. And what Sufism

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does is open up so why are you doing these things?

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It opens up the the reasons behind what happens when

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you pray five times a day. In my own experience,

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I knew how to pray before I went to study

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Islam and to study Sudhism, and I have to be

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honest with you, I had a lot of resistance to

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learning how to pray in the Islamic traditional way.

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Speaker 1: Right because you were like, I had enough of that already.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done that. I've done that. I don't need that,

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and I'm finding God within and et cetera on out.

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But one of the things that I noticed, and it's

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one of the beauties of having inner vision, is I decide, well,

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let me just watch and let me see what happens

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during these movements that Muslims are doing in the traditional prayer,

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and what I was shown shocked me, because what I

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was shown was there are angels that are actually washing

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your light body every time that you pray, that there

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are prophets and ascended masters that are standing in each

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of the positions and helping to bring you closer to

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that God within and God without. And I was like,

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I'm a fool here. I am saying no to something

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that has all these gifts and treasures to it that

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I never experienced in any other prayers that I did.

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And that's what happens. We don't have as human beings.

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We don't have enough curiosity. We don't have enough mystical

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knowledge about the hockey co about what's called the inner

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truth behind the things that we do that bring us joy,

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that bring us happiness.

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Speaker 1: That's fascinating. What I also love about what you just

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said is that you're not just talking specifically in the

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story or the I hate to say the words genre

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of Islam, but you were talking other ascended masters, other prophets,

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other avatars, other saints, if you will, who are there

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in that process. It seems that Sufism is a bit

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more open to a bigger, larger truth than just the

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dogma that has been taught, Like you were saying, like

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you have to do this, this, this, this, and this,

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but no one ever tells you why it's like for me.

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For me, it was like Jesus was born, he does

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a whole bunch of stuff until he's twelve YadA YadA, YadA,

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eighteen years gone, and then he shows up on a

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donkey and I in first grade, I'm going, where is

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the YadA YadA YadA years? Like that's what I call them.

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Yet those are the most interesting. Yeah, I want to

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know where Jesus was in his twenties and his late teens, like,

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you know, it's as a teenager, is he? Is he

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a rebel? Was he you know? Was he smoking and drinking? Like?

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What is he doing during this time? You know, I'm

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curious to find out. So, but those things in the

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traditional past of any religion seemed to be frowned upon. No, no,

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don't talk about that. Even in Hinduism. There's aspects of

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the mystical side that they don't, like a traditional Hindu

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would not want to even.

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Speaker 5: Talk about at all at all. So it's fact, it's

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I guess it's it's fear. It's fear it's fear because

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like for me, I was fearless. I'm very We're both troublemakers.

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I can smell my own.

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Speaker 1: We're both. We're both troublemakers, which is great. Jesus was

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a troublemaker, Buddha was, They all were troublemakers. Weren't good company,

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as they say. But as troublemakers we always question everything.

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And for me, I hadn't no fear of questioning because

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I want the truth as you did. We want the

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truth regardless of what happens or what comes crumbling down.

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I need to understand the truth. That's my I guess

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what I've always looked for, and I assume the same

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for you. So as you're you're searching for truth, people,

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when you ask these kind of deeper questions, Hey, why

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do I pray five times a day? Why can't I

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have this or that? Why are these prohibitions in place

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on your end? Or why do I have what happened

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to Jesus? What happened those eighteen years? If you start

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to go down these roads that the doors are normally closed,

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it shakes the foundation. It could possibly shake the foundation

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of your belief, because if your belief is all of this, this, this,

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and this, then if Jesus really did go to the

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mystery schools in Egypt, he really did go to Tibet,

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he really did go to India and learn from the

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Yogis and then came back as a master, a realized

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matter yesterre at thirty, Well, that changes your whole foundation

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of your belief because that's not the narrative that I

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was told. I'm assuming similar for you.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. And you know, there's a difference between following

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the law and following the dogma and having a path

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that opens up the truth and then having the experience

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of the truth. And that's the difference between Sushism and

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traditional Islam. So at our university, we have many quote

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born Muslims that are coming into our school and saying, wow,

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I never knew that I'm.

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Speaker 4: Right exactly, you know, And here they have, you know,

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a white former Jewish girl teaching them about what they

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think they know.

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, because a perfect, perfect, perfect illustration of that

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is the Bible, the Bible that we know, the Old

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Testament and New Testament, the Old Testament being the Torah

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or I think versions of the Torah, and the New

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Testiny being the stuff about Jesus if you will. I

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was never told that. There was a Roman emperor called

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Constantine who put this all together at the Council of Nicia,

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and there was an editing process and they got everybody

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together and like, hey, let's figure out what the canon

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is of this story, and like, oh, we can't leave

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your incarnation and that's going to ruin what we're trying

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to do, which is control people. And so that's a

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perfect example of what you're saying. I was never told that.

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But that's historical fact, but it's never promoted. And let's

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not even talk about the King James Bible, which is

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the one that we all talk about and the one

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we all really read. Now, well, who's King James? And

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how did the king and why is there Thou and Lord?

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And it's all these kind of things are inside the

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Bible because the King said to put it in there

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and rewrite it according to him. It's just fascinating. But

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this is all historical stuff that's never told to us

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because unless.

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Speaker 2: And what's the beauty of Sufism is there's a book

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inside of our heart, and that's slowly book. And the

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more that we read this holy book, the more the

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truth of the holy books that are out there become

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known to us.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's it's similar to the Kingdom of Heaven

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is within you. Yeah, the truth, but the truth is

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within you. That's the key.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We just have to understand how to look inside and

447
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look for the answers that are within us all the time.

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It's kind of like the old horror movies is like

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the phone calls coming from inside the house kind of thing,

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and you're looking for the monster or something outside, but

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it's actually inside. And that's the thing. We're looking for

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the answers outside of us, but the answers are inside

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of us. And that's what the masters have said for

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all these years. We'll be right back after a word

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00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,680
from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing that's important here that I'd want

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to mention is our heart is like a mirror, and

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if we don't polish that mirror, we're going to have

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a distorted perception of our reality. And that's what I've

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learned inseudism is how do we polish the mirror of

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our heart so that the light of our soul shines through,

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and that light touches everything that we do and everybody

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that we meet.

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Speaker 1: Very roomy esque. I have to say, I love those

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I love it. It's beautiful. Now, you mentioned earlier that

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when you met your master, the Sufi master that puts

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you on this path, that he started explaining to you

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the evolution of the soul from his point of view?

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Can you explaining that in you know, I'm assuming a trunk.

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It's a longer conversation, but either the evolution of the

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soul five minutes gone. So from a Sufism a Sufism

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00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,839
point of view, what is the journey of the soul

473
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:19,799
and the evolution?

474
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:25,559
Speaker 2: So one of the best ways I can describe it

475
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,319
is by talking about what we call the naps are

476
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:36,440
our ego, and in Sufism and also in life, our

477
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,920
ego tends to run the show. And our ego either

478
00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:46,359
is listening to darkness and things that are going to

479
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,960
get us off of the truth, or it's listening to

480
00:31:53,160 --> 00:32:00,279
truth and it's looking for truth. This evolution of the

481
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,640
ego's journey or the journey of the naps from its

482
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,880
primitive state, if you will, from the place where we

483
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,759
say we have three major voices, if you will that

484
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:19,880
we listen to the voice of our ego, the one

485
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:26,240
that says, I know I'm the best, or conversely, I

486
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,880
don't feel good about myself and I'm the worst, right,

487
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:34,599
and an outside voice that we learn from our programming,

488
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,599
as you said, from our teachers, from our siblings, from

489
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,799
our peers as we're growing up, that feed us information

490
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:52,000
about ourselves that set the picture or the image of

491
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:57,000
who we think we are. Part of the evolution of

492
00:32:57,079 --> 00:33:01,680
the soul is breaking down those pictures, breaking down those

493
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:08,880
images and those illusions, so that in that process of

494
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,799
breaking down, in those process of taking the wounds that

495
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:19,440
we've experienced, and everybody has experienced wounds in their life,

496
00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:26,599
taking those wounds that we've experienced experienced and bringing the

497
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,440
love and bringing the light to them, it opens up

498
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:36,480
the pathway that takes our human experience and what we

499
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:41,559
would call in Sufhism are human qualities in our soul

500
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,839
and elevates them into our divine qualities. So we may have,

501
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:53,319
for example, love most of the time, when humans love,

502
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,000
it's a condition of love. I'll love you if right.

503
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,160
When we talk about the evolution of the soul, it's

504
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,719
evolving that human love into a divine love that's an

505
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:16,400
unconditional love that says, no matter what, I will love.

506
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:22,199
Speaker 1: You when in your in your university, that you how

507
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,800
you teach your students, how can you how do you

508
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,559
teach them to embody the divine presence as opposed to

509
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:34,880
understanding it intellectually, Because there's so many people on the

510
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,480
spiritual path who use this a lot more than use this.

511
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:43,639
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. It's through the spiritual practices that

512
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,639
we do in Sufism. I've given a little giveaway if

513
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,039
you will at the end of your show. It's called

514
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:55,679
the Live Seas of Sufism, and in that you'll have

515
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,679
an opportunity or your audience will to use some of

516
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:06,920
these Sufi practices to actually experience the presence within you

517
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,559
and then to be present with that presence.

518
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: So is there one that you can kind of just

519
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,280
talk about right now before.

520
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: They're a little long. But one is very simple, and

521
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,320
it's I'm sure one that is very universal, and you

522
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:32,239
just take your breath and do the ah ah sound.

523
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:36,719
The first thing that it does is what it opens

524
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:44,880
the heart. No other sound does that. If you look. Yeah,

525
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,320
other sounds have different effects on the body, but the

526
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,199
ah sound That's why we say it when we take

527
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,639
a deep, deep sigh right to sort of let out

528
00:35:55,679 --> 00:36:00,719
the tension in our body, that as sound begins to

529
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:08,280
open the heart. When the heart is open, then that's

530
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,519
when we can start to experience whatever is inside. Sometimes

531
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:17,039
it might not be the best thing. It might be

532
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,559
in my case right, It might be all those separations

533
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,519
that I thought I was way beyond right, but they

534
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:28,800
still existed within me because when I was meditating, I

535
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,840
was going up and out and having my soul. My

536
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,840
spirit was having the most glorious journeys outside of my

537
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:43,159
body without ever being aware of the beauty inside my body.

538
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,400
We say in Sufism, you think you're a small star,

539
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:54,559
when in fact you comprise the entire universe. Imagine experiencing

540
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,000
that entire universe within you just through the Ah sound,

541
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:07,599
combining that with the law Ah Law, and repeating that

542
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,199
over and over. It means the one. It's also the

543
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,840
name of God in Islam, but its mystical meaning is

544
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,920
the one. So it connects you to that oneness within you,

545
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,519
and it connects you to the one who created you.

546
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: What is the biggest misconception that people have about Sufism

547
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,280
in general? Because it's because it's connected to the let's say,

548
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,760
the bad press. Sometimes not Sufhism in general, but Islam,

549
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:42,119
and people have preconceived notions.

550
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, people do not recognize that the word Islam actually

551
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:48,559
means peace.

552
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know that, right.

553
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: That is the biggest misconception, that the word Islam means peace.

554
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:02,639
It comes from the word salom meaning peace.

555
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: So so as far as but out of Sufism. What

556
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,480
is some of the misconceptions of Sufism that you've come

557
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,559
across in your in your journey down the road that

558
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:13,599
people might have of it.

559
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: That it is only for Muslims, That it is a religion,

560
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,760
that it's based on dogma, it's based on shoulds and

561
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:34,320
should not, That it is interested in just one aspect

562
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:38,559
rather than the totality. Those are all the misconceptions that

563
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:44,800
I've come across it that, for example, and atheists couldn't

564
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:50,000
be a Sufi. And what I say to any atheists

565
00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:55,079
do you love? And they say, oh, yeah, that's the

566
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:59,679
primary ingredient to beginning the path is love?

567
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:03,039
Speaker 1: Is love, It always says.

568
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: It always is. I used to work in a children's

569
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,519
hospice program years ago, and wow, yeah, and I learned

570
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:15,000
so much from those kids, so much. They would say

571
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,039
to me, tell my parents not to cry, and they said,

572
00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:22,920
they're going to cry, my love, And they say, tell

573
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,519
them not to because I know that I'm going to

574
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:31,679
be out of pain. I know that I'm going to

575
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,239
a place where there's only love. So I'd ask them

576
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,159
to draw a picture of where they're going. And you

577
00:39:38,199 --> 00:39:41,639
know that every single child that I worked with drew

578
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:48,440
exactly the same picture, which was this beautiful like white

579
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:54,239
castle in the sky. They were going home, and that's

580
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,199
what they say, and they knew it, and they wanted

581
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,480
to make sure that I helped their parents. They said,

582
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:05,000
we know they're going to be sad, but tell them

583
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:05,440
not to be.

584
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:10,159
Speaker 1: Said, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

585
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,920
And now back to the show that that work as

586
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,199
being a hospice worker children's hospice no less which is

587
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,360
even even more heartbreaking in many ways. What are the

588
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,280
lessons that you besides that one, What are some of

589
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,480
the things that you've picked up on, Because that's a

590
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:39,480
very special and privileged space to be in. You know,

591
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:43,840
when anyone's passing to the next to the other side

592
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,679
is especial, but a child, it must have a different

593
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,000
feeling because they're still they're still close to the to

594
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,400
the creator. You know, we lose that as we get older,

595
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,880
but then gain it as we get closer to the end.

596
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:03,719
That's the fascinating. As you're dying, all of a sudden,

597
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,079
I see angels, I see Uncle Bob show up. But

598
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,519
during but in the middle of your life, you're just like,

599
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:10,280
I can't think about any of that stuff. I need

600
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,400
to create, create, created, hustle, hustle, hustle, make money, make money,

601
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,199
make money, kind of thing. It's ego, ego, ego. But

602
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,760
at the beginning, we're so close. We're joyful, we're loving,

603
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,440
we're unconditional loving almost, but it's it's kind of beaten

604
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,920
out of us by society as we get older. So

605
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,519
what was what is that like being around them at

606
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:31,480
such a young age.

607
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:40,199
Speaker 2: It's joyful, it's peaceful, and I think, more importantly, it's

608
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,079
remember I talked earlier about who am I and why

609
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:47,159
am I here? That's what I love the most from them.

610
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,480
It's like I know that I'm here for a short time.

611
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:55,119
I know what I was sent here to help my parents.

612
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,719
I know that what I'm doing here is part of

613
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:06,079
a larger plan, and I'm okay with that. There was

614
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:12,039
an acceptance and a beauty in how they dealt with

615
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,920
what was going on in their lives that even when

616
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,039
I worked with people who are older who were dying,

617
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:26,800
did not have that same sense of purpose and commitment

618
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,679
to this is what my destiny was, This is what

619
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,000
my destiny is. I'm not meant to be here forever.

620
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,679
I'm only meant to be here for a short time.

621
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:42,119
I've completed the work that I was meant to do here.

622
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,679
That really shocked me. Mm hmm, you really did, you know?

623
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,199
But you're only five years old.

624
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:51,119
Speaker 1: What work did you do?

625
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 4: Well?

626
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,119
Speaker 2: What were you to do? Right?

627
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,119
Speaker 1: But the thing is that they, from my point of view,

628
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,599
work interviewing so many in near death experiences and mystics

629
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:08,960
and you know, intuitives and so on, I understand from

630
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,000
my at least my point of view, is that a

631
00:43:11,039 --> 00:43:12,960
soul comes in, even if they're in there for a

632
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:16,480
few minutes, it's a job. It could be how that

633
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,039
affects the parents, how it affects the world around them,

634
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,000
how you know, and they it's very very different. So

635
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:24,840
it does make sense that they say that, like my

636
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,559
work here is done. I get it, because they this

637
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:29,079
life might have just been. But you have to have

638
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:33,239
the understanding, foundational understanding that we have multiple lives, that

639
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,800
we incarnate multiple lives. Is that something in Sufism as well,

640
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:36,960
or is it a one to go?

641
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,159
Speaker 2: Actually, it's not interesting enough. That was probably the hardest

642
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:43,519
adjustment I had to make to Sufism, because remember, I

643
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:47,000
came from a meditative path where reincarnation is a part

644
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,639
of it, and I really had to sit with it

645
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,119
for a long time to really understand how do I

646
00:43:55,159 --> 00:44:00,960
reconcile this within my own being? Because Sufism doesn't believe

647
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:07,960
in reincarnation, but they do believe in parallel universes. So

648
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,599
our work here is done, but we're in a million

649
00:44:12,639 --> 00:44:16,760
other but we may go to another universe to do

650
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,639
another part of our work. So if we don't complete

651
00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:26,239
ourselves here, we get another opportunity someplace else to complete ourselves.

652
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 1: Well, Selena, that's basically a different flavor of reincarnation in

653
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,719
so many ways. It's just a different point of view,

654
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,039
but it's the same concept. If the soul's work's not done,

655
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:40,440
they will go somewhere else parallel to us, or come

656
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:43,320
back in a recycling scenario, and.

657
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: That's just and that's what's interestingly enough. I was working

658
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,880
with a man who was part of my meditation community

659
00:44:51,920 --> 00:45:00,440
at the time, and when he transitioned, I had the blessing,

660
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:06,679
if you will, to see what happened. And what happened

661
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,800
in his transition is he immediately went to work on

662
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,400
the other side. And everybody was asking me what was

663
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,719
going on, because I was kind of in a shock

664
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,599
kind of state. I say, what's happening because the room

665
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,239
was so peaceful, and if you've ever been in a

666
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:29,559
room when somebody transitions, there's a real peaceful flavor of

667
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:33,320
happens in the room. And they said, and I said,

668
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,360
he just went to his next job. And I saw

669
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,679
it as clearly as I see you sitting there. And

670
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,440
that's when I realized that there is an afterlife. There

671
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,440
is something that happens. I'm not sure whether we return

672
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:53,000
to this earth or not, but I do know that

673
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:59,199
our soul continues to evolve until it's complete, until it's

674
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,519
reached its perfection.

675
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful, because I mean we're saying the same thing.

676
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,039
That's so beautiful thing, and this is a perfect illustration

677
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:10,559
of what we've been talking about in this conversation different

678
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:15,000
paths to the same place. Sufism believes in parallel realities,

679
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:19,599
which is pretty quantum physics of them, you know, and

680
00:46:19,639 --> 00:46:24,119
also also very marvel comics of them as well, with

681
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,920
parallel realities. And then in the Hindu tradition or in

682
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,920
the Yoga tradition, it's or in the Buddhist tradition, it's

683
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:36,000
a coming back of reincarnation. They're both, I mean, as

684
00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:38,280
you explained it, they both sound the same to me.

685
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,360
It's just one's up and down. One is parallel, but.

686
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,679
Speaker 2: We're doing In the Hindu tradition, one of the things

687
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:52,199
that fascinated me was if you've completed your your cycle,

688
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,719
you don't come back.

689
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: You're done right, You finish eventually, Eventually you can if

690
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,000
you've learned everything you need to know and you evolved

691
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:03,440
to a point of self realization, you truly understand. Now

692
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,079
you're a master, hence an ascended master. But many times

693
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,400
those masters the bugle was it called when they decide

694
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,000
to come back to help humanity. I forgot the name

695
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:19,320
Bogie Bogatasata. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, Kwan

696
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,400
Yin is. Yeah, the master don't come back.

697
00:47:22,639 --> 00:47:25,079
Speaker 2: They generally don't come back in this form.

698
00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: Right they but they stay around and help as opposed

699
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:38,079
to transitioning to the next office. Uh So, I have

700
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:40,079
to ask you this question because I've I've never I've

701
00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:44,880
always been fascinated. What's with the dancing, the.

702
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 6: Dancing and that whole that whole world tradition, the whirling,

703
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,360
the whirling cefees Yeah, because if I heard this is

704
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,119
what I heard that it's a meditative practice in a sense.

705
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: What is it exactly? Because that's that's the famous that's

706
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,679
the image that most people think of if they know

707
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:03,760
anything about Sufism.

708
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 2: Is that right? So Sufism has many different what we

709
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,480
call Tarika's, many different paths that are part of the

710
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:20,880
umbrella of Sufism. The particular path that I'm a member

711
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:27,679
of is called the Shadowiah path. It doesn't whirl. I

712
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,920
was fascinated by whirling, so I went to Syria to

713
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:37,119
study whirling. What I can tell you is it's an

714
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:45,400
absolutely ecstatic experience. So it's it's the opportunity to bring

715
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,440
Heaven to Earth within your body through the whirling.

716
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,639
Speaker 1: So it is a meditation in a form of it, in.

717
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: A form of it. Yeah, it's a way of taking

718
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:05,199
your soul and returning it to its source and then

719
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,440
bringing it back in to live in the world.

720
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:14,119
Speaker 1: And speaking of the world, Salima, the world is going

721
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:18,159
through some stuff right now, there is it, sure is.

722
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,880
I was talking to a friend the other day about this.

723
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,559
When I'm assuming you know who Yoga Nanda is, Paramahansa. Yes, yes,

724
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:35,159
he's right behind me. When Paramahansa when he was writing

725
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,400
autobiography of the Yogi, in the process of writing it,

726
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:44,719
they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima h And it's such

727
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,719
a dichotomy of what the work that he was trying

728
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,599
to put out into the world and what was happening

729
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:51,679
in the world. I say that to kind of put

730
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:55,239
people in a state of like things are bad or

731
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,920
things are rough right now, but they've been a lot

732
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,159
rougher in humanity's history. Without question, it just seems like

733
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:04,400
it's a lot crazier because of all the connection and

734
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,679
social media and stuff. But from your point of view,

735
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:10,320
and I brought the Yoga on the story too, because

736
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,239
those teachings were needed more than ever at that time.

737
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,199
It's and those teachings are now even more needed more

738
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:23,400
than ever. Than before. We'll be right back after a

739
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:29,400
word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

740
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:38,280
All of these different journey or paths, like Sufism, like

741
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,360
the Kabbalah, you know, like mystical Christianity, these paths are

742
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,079
starting to come out of the shadows almost and starting

743
00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:49,519
to come out into the public, you know, public way.

744
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,199
For perfect example, someone like yourself who was on a

745
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,840
meditative path, you know, and you know, I'm assuming more

746
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,000
of the Eastern philosophy kind of world all of us

747
00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:05,119
sudden was introduced to this, this path. It was very

748
00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:08,679
in the shadows. Cabalo was very in the shadows for centuries,

749
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,199
but it seems to start it's becoming more mainstream. Do

750
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,400
you believe that these things are starting to come into

751
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,920
the world because we need them more than ever before,

752
00:51:18,199 --> 00:51:22,559
and that people are are more receptive to this because

753
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:26,199
they're losing kind of their they're losing their faith in

754
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,599
this more dogmatic, traditional, separational, fear based ideals and any

755
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:34,199
and any and all paths, and they're looking for something

756
00:51:34,199 --> 00:51:39,199
a little bit more inward. They're looking for answers, and

757
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,400
they're looking for answers anywhere they can get them. And

758
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,880
the traditional paths are not doing it for them. Do

759
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,320
you think that's why all of these different ideas are

760
00:51:47,559 --> 00:51:48,760
coming up right now?

761
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:54,199
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that that's the reason, as much as

762
00:51:54,719 --> 00:52:00,679
our own evolution as a human race, right I happened

763
00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:03,599
to have been on a peace mission to Japan last

764
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:08,559
year and we met with some of the victims of

765
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:13,519
the Hiroshima bombing. Interesting enough, two weeks afterwards they won

766
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:22,880
the Nobel Peace Prize. But their journey of evolution of

767
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,360
their soul was fascinating to listen to, and it reminded

768
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,199
me of the journey of our civilizations, of how we

769
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:41,719
have to go through such darkness in order to appreciate

770
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:50,519
the light in order to navigate our way through the darkness,

771
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:57,119
through the sadness, through the grief, in order to arrive

772
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,559
at our joint and our happiness. And for me, I

773
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:08,679
feel like our human race is in that evolutionary process

774
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:16,159
right now, and we're ready for that because of all

775
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:22,280
the experiences that we've had. My Sufi master used to say,

776
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,599
how could you know happiness if you've never experienced sadness.

777
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:34,159
Speaker 1: It's the duality of this experience.

778
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 2: Right How we experience God is through that duality.

779
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little bit more.

780
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 2: Sure we have what we in Sufism will call jamal,

781
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:56,639
which is the beauty. One of my favorite exercises I'd

782
00:53:56,639 --> 00:54:00,119
love to give people is just to say steering a

783
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:05,199
mirror and say, when God created me, God created beauty,

784
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:10,199
and just notice what comes up in your being and

785
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,920
continue to say that until you find the truth within yourself.

786
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:21,199
Those are experiences of jamal. Of the beauty of a sunset,

787
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,159
the beauty of the ocean, yeah, the beauty of our environment.

788
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,440
I live in the New England, so the beauty of

789
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,679
a fall, and all the different colors. We also have

790
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,480
the jamal That jamal is. The more severity, the more

791
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:44,119
what we would call in Suphism, the majesty of God,

792
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:52,079
right the crises that we face, the storms that happen

793
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:59,159
in our life and in the environment. The center point

794
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:06,199
of that jimbon and jeelo is known as comal or

795
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:13,320
completion or perfection. It's in that comal that we know

796
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,960
ourselves and we know God. It's in that place that

797
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:27,840
God describes himself as expanding and contracting our breath. Can

798
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,199
you imagine if all we did was exhale all the time?

799
00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:34,960
Are all we did was inhale all the time impossible.

800
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 5: Right.

801
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 2: It's in that contrast that we begin to see truth

802
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,639
and know truth and find God.

803
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:48,679
Speaker 1: As you were talking, what came to me is you

804
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,800
were talking about humanity as a general, as a macro,

805
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:59,639
but on the micro, it's our journey. The only times

806
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,719
I I mean, at least in my lifetime, that the

807
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,719
biggest lessons I've learned are always been the more difficult ones,

808
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:10,960
the more challenging ones, the more painful ones. I appreciate

809
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:15,639
the relationship I have now with my wife, who have

810
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:21,519
been with for decades at this point, because I had

811
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,519
bad relationships before I knew what I didn't want. I

812
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:30,559
learned what I didn't want painfully, painfully as she did

813
00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:33,039
as well. So it's just an example.

814
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:37,119
Speaker 2: Of those hard times for how we grow. Without me,

815
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:41,400
it's no growth, right. It's like, you know, the squeezing

816
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,039
of the lemon to get the lemonade, to get the juice.

817
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,679
You know, we're not going to get the juice of

818
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,840
life if we're not squeezed. And those experience that we

819
00:56:52,920 --> 00:57:00,679
have that we may label bad actually help squeeze us

820
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:07,440
so we get to experience the joy that we get

821
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,559
to experience our own growth.

822
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:12,199
Speaker 1: Well, and if I may quote, grew me one more

823
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,119
time in this conversation, I just adore a door room

824
00:57:16,199 --> 00:57:19,480
me and I might I'm paraphrasing here, but isn't the

825
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,320
very famous one is like the cut that happens to

826
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,360
you allows the light to come in, or something along

827
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:26,920
those ones.

828
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:29,039
Speaker 2: The wound is where the light is.

829
00:57:30,159 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: Right, but you need the wound, you need order to

830
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,119
let in order to let the light in.

831
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,599
Speaker 2: Your heart needs to break open in order to find

832
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:44,480
the divine within. In order to find that divine spark,

833
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:49,280
that divine light that God placed in every single human being,

834
00:57:50,159 --> 00:57:53,559
the heart has to break open in order to find it.

835
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,320
I have a farm where I live in Pennsylvania, and

836
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:02,840
we raise chickens for a while, and you know, when

837
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,719
the chicken is in the egg, all it knows is

838
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,519
the inside of that shell.

839
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: Right.

840
00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: Our soul is like that, when it's imprisoned in our body.

841
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,960
We have to break free, just as that chick breaks

842
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,320
free out of a shell, to experience more.

843
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: The truth that chicken is experienced, the truth, the truth

844
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,159
of where it actually is. It's not his world is

845
00:58:31,199 --> 00:58:31,840
not the shell.

846
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: No, it's so so much more right and our world

847
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,639
is not just this body.

848
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:39,079
Speaker 1: It is not.

849
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: In the universe inside of us to explore.

850
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: And it's a pretty big one too.

851
00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:53,679
Speaker 2: Yoga Nanda inside of your heart, right inside of your heart.

852
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:00,639
Speaker 1: If you could tell, if you you can give one

853
00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:04,199
piece of advice to someone who's watching, who is lost,

854
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:10,039
who's lost because they're in tremendous amount of pain, They're

855
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:12,280
lost because they haven't been able to find a path

856
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,440
that resonates with them on their journey and their search,

857
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:21,239
or just feel lost in general in this life. We've

858
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:23,480
all felt that way at one point or another. We

859
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:26,159
feel this thing that we're like, Oh, I don't know

860
00:59:26,159 --> 00:59:27,800
what to do, where I am, I don't know where

861
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,920
I'm going, all that kind of stuff. If there was

862
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,320
something you could say to that person listening or watching

863
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:33,360
right now, what would that be?

864
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: Probably two things. Number one, find something that you love,

865
00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:44,239
even if it's a cat, a dog, and share that love.

866
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,360
And the second is find something that you can truly say,

867
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:57,360
I'm grateful for love and gratitude helps anchor us when

868
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:03,159
we feel lost. It helps establish a sense of meaning

869
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,119
in places where we're not feeling much meaning.

870
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: Beautiful, thank you for that. We'll be right back after

871
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:17,920
a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

872
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,320
One question I want to ask you in regards to

873
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,800
the mystical side of Sufism, which if you have been

874
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:31,400
and I'm assuming you've been in India, so you've spoken

875
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,920
to yogi's and have heard the stories of the yogis

876
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,239
and the mystical the mystical aspects of what they do

877
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:45,280
by by location, levitation, manifestation, all these kind of yogic

878
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,920
powers that they have. Is there anything like that in Sufism,

879
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:52,480
like when you evolve to a certain place that there's

880
01:00:52,519 --> 01:00:57,920
these stories, these these myths of a aa master, master Sufi.

881
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:02,159
Speaker 7: Who can not only story when I said, when I

882
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:08,800
was in Syria, there you saw it was a Sufi master.

883
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 2: Who literally put a sword through one of his disciples

884
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,679
and pulled it out, no blood, no nothing. I witnessed this.

885
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:22,639
Speaker 1: Don't try this at home, everyone, don't try.

886
01:01:27,079 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: I was on a trip to Morocco. I took a

887
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,679
group of women to Morocco. We met with some Sufis

888
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,719
in Morocco. They would take a kettle of hot water,

889
01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:40,679
and it was hot, a kettle of hot water, pour

890
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,199
it into their mouth and then spit out cool water.

891
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: So what what's happening there from your understanding?

892
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:58,559
Speaker 2: So, what's happening there is an a way of transmuting reality. Yeah,

893
01:01:58,599 --> 01:02:03,239
so that we're moving of what we would call him sufism,

894
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:12,280
the world of imagination, into the world of we have

895
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,400
a word call it's called la hut and I'm trying

896
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,840
to find an English definition for it, into the world

897
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,320
of all possibilities.

898
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of it sounds kind of like Neo from

899
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,199
the Matrix understanding how to use the code and manipulate

900
01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:32,159
the code in this simulation. And now he knows how

901
01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:34,239
to do things, and he could do things that nobody

902
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,559
else does because he's kind of seen behind the curtain

903
01:02:36,639 --> 01:02:39,719
almost and he understands the game. Does that makes sense?

904
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:44,079
Speaker 2: It is? And that's not the end of the story.

905
01:02:44,639 --> 01:02:50,039
If we stop at the miracles, right, then we stop

906
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:54,039
with our own evolution and we become and that becomes

907
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:58,599
the illusion rather than continuing on that journey.

908
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: It's the it's the egoic traps, if you will, of

909
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,760
the Yogi's talk about these this kind of on the

910
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,800
path to enlighten, there are these little traps and the

911
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,480
perfect example of this a great parable and please forgive

912
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,079
me if you've heard this before. People listening are watching

913
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,679
where there's two yogis on the edge of a river

914
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:22,840
and there's in one bridge. One yogi turns to the

915
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:24,800
ugger and he goes, here, watch this, and he levitates

916
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,360
across to the other side of the river. And then

917
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,760
the other yogi just walks fifteen feet and goes on

918
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,440
the bridge and walks across, and he goes, what did

919
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:33,840
you think of that? And he goes, I feel that

920
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:35,679
that's a waste of thirty five years of your time

921
01:03:35,719 --> 01:03:38,199
when I could have just taken a bridge. You know,

922
01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:41,280
it's you learned. You take it three decades to learn

923
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,480
this trick, but you could have it. Like, what's the

924
01:03:44,559 --> 01:03:48,440
point of that? Because as you evolve spiritually, certain things

925
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,239
unlock within you and you're able to like do them.

926
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:53,239
Those are pretty amazing.

927
01:03:54,239 --> 01:03:56,639
Speaker 2: They were pretty As I said, I've witnessed them with

928
01:03:56,679 --> 01:03:58,719
my own eyes, right.

929
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's not just worries, it's.

930
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 2: Not just stories, but more importantly, and I think this

931
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,039
is what I'd love to leave your audience with. In Sufism,

932
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:12,199
we have two concepts. One is called finah, which is

933
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:17,519
the annihilation of your ego. And when I first heard that,

934
01:04:17,679 --> 01:04:20,039
I was like, I don't know if I want to

935
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:25,119
annihilate my ego, but the actual experience of it is

936
01:04:25,159 --> 01:04:29,760
the dissolving of your ego into divine love. We have

937
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,199
many pictures around the world, and at least I did

938
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:33,800
around the word annihilation.

939
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I already. I just saw armageddon coming with

940
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:41,880
the Giant comics. I just what I saw.

941
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:49,199
Speaker 2: So, but the actual real experience of it is the

942
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:55,119
dissolving of the ego into pure divine love. And then

943
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,480
from that, the other term in Sufism or the other

944
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:04,639
experience suphism is that of beca and because is the

945
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:11,000
self subsisting within that divine love within the world. And

946
01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:12,719
for me, that's where we're all headed.

947
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: It sounds to me that what the goal is of

948
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,039
all of this, almost of everything we're talking about, every path,

949
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,440
every tradition, is to find quote unquote heaven on earth,

950
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:31,440
to experience what you feel when you're a soul on

951
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,280
the other side. But you're it's kind of like you're

952
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,400
a soul on the other side. You're dropped into this

953
01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:39,679
experience in this reality, and then you have to learn

954
01:05:39,679 --> 01:05:41,440
and learn and learn and learn, whether in a parallel

955
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,920
reality or in a reincarnation scenario, you're learning, you're learning,

956
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,559
you're learning up until the point where you finally learn

957
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:52,440
how to break free of this or understand what this

958
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,880
reality to know the truth. Once you understand the truth,

959
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:57,880
then there's no reason for you to be down here

960
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,840
anymore because you've already know how the game is played.

961
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:02,719
And we're all kind of everything you're saying sounds like

962
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:07,440
versions of what I've discovered and what I've experienced speaking

963
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,960
to near death experiencers, where on the other side is

964
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,880
pure love. There is no ego, instant manifestation, all these

965
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,760
kind of things which we're trying to do down here,

966
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:23,800
and you were saying, is like trying to find pure love. Well,

967
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,079
that's what's on the other side. That's what all I

968
01:06:26,119 --> 01:06:31,480
ever hear from near death experiences is this pure unconditional love,

969
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,360
and we're trying to achieve that here on our own

970
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,159
spiritual paths. Does that compute to you? Oh?

971
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:43,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And the beauty is that that's all of that's

972
01:06:43,719 --> 01:06:47,880
all inside of us, and we keep looking outside for

973
01:06:48,039 --> 01:06:52,719
something that is inside. And that was my biggest aha

974
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:58,280
in Sufism is you know, the one of my favorite

975
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:02,679
movies is The Wizard of Oz. You know, yeah, so

976
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,800
many spiritual parallels in the Wizard of Oz.

977
01:07:06,159 --> 01:07:14,239
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, it was the matrix of its time. Yeah,

978
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,400
it's I love I absolutely love that movie.

979
01:07:19,239 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 2: To be able to find that and here where it

980
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:27,440
exists all along is such a gift, gift to yourself

981
01:07:28,119 --> 01:07:29,840
and gift to humanity.

982
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,559
Speaker 1: Is that what was? So it's you know, I haven't

983
01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:35,920
actually sat down thought about the Wizard of Oz, but

984
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,800
it's just like like you've had the ability to go

985
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,199
home all the time. Yeah, all you have to do

986
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:45,000
is click those those heels of the slippers and you go.

987
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 2: That's it. And that's why we say Sufism is really

988
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:53,960
a path of remembering and being reminded because it's already

989
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,800
inside of you. And one of the practices is actually

990
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,599
called remembrance. That you're remembering who you are in truth,

991
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:09,840
you're remembering and reconnecting with that divine light, divine spark

992
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,039
within you that's connected to all of us.

993
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:17,560
Speaker 1: I've really truly enjoyed this conversation. You're such a You're

994
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:22,159
such a pleasure. Your energy is so beautiful, so peaceful

995
01:08:23,159 --> 01:08:25,319
and loving. I can sense it coming off of you

996
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,279
off the screen, so it is. It is so beautiful.

997
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,399
Where can people find out more about you and the

998
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,159
amazing work you and your organization are doing in the world.

999
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:40,159
Speaker 2: Through our Sufi University. It's www. Dot Sufi dot net

1000
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:48,159
or www. Sufieu that works level to see you all

1001
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,840
your many courses. You can either take a whole program

1002
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:56,000
or just dive in with a little foundation and just

1003
01:08:56,199 --> 01:08:57,159
learn the basics.

1004
01:08:57,199 --> 01:09:01,359
Speaker 1: So that's amazing. And if you can leave our audience

1005
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:06,000
with one remembrance or prayer to awaken that divine beauty

1006
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,600
that we've been speaking about within them, what would that be?

1007
01:09:11,039 --> 01:09:14,239
Speaker 2: So if this is one of my favorite prayers that

1008
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:19,279
I'd like to share. It's called the light prayer, and

1009
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:28,279
it goes like this. Put light on my right side

1010
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:34,920
and light on my left side. Light in front of

1011
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:45,159
me and light behind me. Light in my senses, in

1012
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:52,880
my eyes, my ears, my nose, my hands, my mouth,

1013
01:09:54,600 --> 01:10:08,600
light in my heart. Make me all light. Remember we

1014
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:14,239
are light, we are love, and spread your light into

1015
01:10:14,279 --> 01:10:18,520
the world. It is the light that will take us

1016
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,199
out of the darkness and into the love. Thank you.

1017
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful, Selema. Thank you so much again for

1018
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,439
being here. It's been such a pleasure meeting you and

1019
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,640
continue doing the amazing work you're doing to help bring

1020
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,239
some light into this world and into every soul that

1021
01:10:38,359 --> 01:10:40,680
walks it. So I appreciate you and everything you're doing.

1022
01:10:41,119 --> 01:10:44,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate your podcast and all that

1023
01:10:44,239 --> 01:10:47,880
you're doing to help spread the word out to help

1024
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,279
people of all, to help the souls go to their

1025
01:10:51,319 --> 01:10:51,960
next level.

1026
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you for spending this sacred

1027
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,880
time with us today. If you feel called to explore

1028
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,520
this conversation further, you'll find the show notes for this

1029
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:08,800
episode at Next levelsoul dot com Forward slash six five

1030
01:11:09,159 --> 01:11:12,479
zero and if your soul is craving an even deeper journey,

1031
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,119
step into Next Level Soul TV our streaming sanctuary for

1032
01:11:16,199 --> 01:11:22,039
spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks,

1033
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:26,279
and transformative teachings. It's a space created to support your awakening,

1034
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,520
you're healing, and your return to the truth of who

1035
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,600
you really are. Begin your journey at Next levelsoul dot tv.

1036
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,960
Until next time, Keep expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking

1037
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,920
your path towards the next level of your soul.